The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 066: Cazenovia, Wisconsin. Steven Rinella, Pat Durkin, Garret Smith (a.k.a. Dirt Myth) and Janis Putelis join Doug Duren at his family farm.

Episode Date: June 1, 2017

Subjects Discussed: Doug's nubbin'; power jakes, jake psychology, rope dragger activities, and busted spur turks; Janis' conundrum; puttin' on the jake brakes; Durkin's personal stuffed deer pact; favoring the serious while penalizing the jackasses; roosting a turkey; rigidity and weakness in nature; the worst kind of sleep; the navel of the Duren farm; Matt Rinella's bar names; Bergmann's Rule; North America's turkey history; Rinella's principle; Dirt on wildlife; napping with Jani; hunts in proximity to the summer solstice; Dirt on alliteration, and more. Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are

without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. Welcome to the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. The Meat Eater Podcast. You can't predict anything. So, Yanni, there you are.

The clock's ticking. You just can't get it done. You got an evening hunt, a morning hunt left. No, I can hunt tomorrow evening. Possibly another evening, but you just can't get it done. If we don't kill one tonight, you probably won't see me tomorrow. I don't care what my responsibilities are. I'll just be in the woods.

You just can't see me tomorrow. I don't care what my responsibilities are. I'll just be in the woods. You just can't get one. Meanwhile, I've gotten two turkeys. Doug's gotten two turkeys. Is that really how you're going to paint this? I feel like you're being a little harsh on me right now. Well, I haven't gotten into the details yet. Okay. I'll come to your rescue, Yanni.

Yeah. I was trying to make for the for the listener i was trying to paint like a dramatic you know what i mean like drama coming down to it yeah like i was trying to make like a dramatic so people at home yeah right we're like oh my god yanni and they'd get all excited they're, worried. And they'd have an enhanced listening experience. Well, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Sorry for messing that up to the listener.

Has the thought entered your mind? Are you starting to grapple with the idea that you may not fill your turkey tag? No, not at all. Your Wisconsin Zone 1 Season C turkey tag. No, not at all. Your Wisconsin Zone 1 Season C turkey tag. Not at all, because this morning at daylight, we were exactly halfway through our hunt. We had four days this morning when I started.

I had two left. A lot of hunt left to do. So I'm not too worried. Tomorrow at about this time after the morning hunt, if I'm still gobbler-less, then I'll be sweating it a little bit. Okay, now the second thing is, have you entered into Jake time yet? Yes. Now, a Jake is a one-year-old male turkey yeah maybe not even quite a year old

jake when like when you're hunting the spring season right yeah you might be catching them at 11 months of age okay depending on how the season falls like generally spring turkey seasons are comprised portions of april portions of may a pretty if you're going to average out spring turkey hunting i think you'd probably wind up like you know like most turkeys in the country are killed between like april 1 and may 10 or something yeah mid-may um so the turkey, a male that's born one spring, once his egg hatches, and he is in his first spring, he's got a little teeny, teeny beard, which is a feather that grows out of their chest. Now, a big rope dragger like the one I got will have a beard that's 12 inches long. But a Jake will have a little dinker beard

that's anywhere from three quarters of an inch to... About five inches. The one I got was about five inches. Yeah, Doug shot like a big stomper Jake. Power Jake. Power Jake. Power Jake. Power Jake. EJ.

The other thing is that Jake, so years ago I was in the Philippines and I went to see cockfights. And, you know, the chicken fights with his spur, right? When you hear of a cockfight, what they do is they enhance the spurs with these big, long sickles, these big, long, stainless steel, razor-sharp sickles that they strap onto his feet so he can spur his opponent and kill him. That's a spur. So turkeys have spurs, but jakes just have little nubbins, a little nub that looks like

the tip of your pinky. And then a big, giant rope dragger like the one I got. But sometimes jakes don't have any bumps even, right? No, they always have a mark. They have a little pebble. The one I got, the jake I got today, had a little nubbins not as big as Doug's nubbin. Doug's nubbin was like a half-inch nubbin.

Yeah, I'm talking his turkey nubbin. On a platter. So Doug's nubbins was remarkably bigger than the nubbins on my Jake. But now I got two turkeys. I'd like to say twice as many as Yanni, but I don't know. When someone has zero, I don't know how to do like. Yeah, because you have one in order. It defies mathematics to talk about how many more i have than him but my big rope dragger had spurs that

you could that once a turkey is like three years old that spur will be it'll get a hook to it it gets very sharp on the end and it'll get where you could hang that son of a bitch and turkey up from a ledge off his hooks but there's great variance in that yes from uh i think well probably a lot of factors but uh what they're eating their diet certainly you know how much they're growing and then the kind of ground they're walking they're walking. Explain that. Because in the mountains where it's rocky, like those mountain marines we're hunting, you rarely get one that has those nice big curved. Because he's scraping them off.

Or you kill Turks that have the spurs busted, which I've killed. I've killed broken, busted, spurred Turks. But in this fertile farm country, deep, rich, loamy soil, they have pristine spurs, or as Yanni calls them, hooks. Years ago, for the misses, I took a hacksaw and hacksawed off some, I can't remember where I killed this turkey. I hacksawed off the spurs.

And they were black like rhino ivory. Is rhino ivory black? What I imagine rhino ivory to look like is what these look like. Black pearls. Hacksawed them off and took them to a jeweler. what these look like. Black, beautiful, like black pearls, okay? Hacksawed them off, then took them to a jeweler. In fact, the same guy that I bought her wedding ring, I guess you call it a wedding ring, that I bought her wedding ring from,

took them to him and had them take those little pieces that they set gemstones in for earrings and had turkey spur earrings made. And she wears them. And a lot of people have no idea what they're looking at they think it's teeth or something like that but it's those turkey spurs beautiful earrings how big were the ones you cut off for her for those earrings yeah big fatties like big mambo jambos so like an inch plus spur is a big ass spur. And they get sharp.

Like if you walk up, the spurs can be so sharp. If you walk up, like when you first hit a turkey in the head, he's dead. Like his life force has left him. But if you really clobber him in the head with a shotgun. But they do a lot of jumping around. And a lot of people get injured from those spurs by running up to grab that turkey. Because I want to grab it by the foot

and catch that spur and it'll hook you. Is that a badge of honor in turkey hunters? No, I think that's a badge of stupidity. In turkey hunters. A badge of stupidity. Stand on its neck for a while is the better thing to do. Yeah.

One time I was hunting bears with my brother Danny and we beached our boat and went up and he shot a bear and I was worried about the boat getting beached by the tide

and I ran in after the bear and I thought that I'd come out and he'd be like, man, that was badass the way you ran in after that bear and he goes,

that was foolish. So yeah, I think it's a badge of foolishness. But all this talk is just trying to clarify the Jake's. Now, also, a Jake is – there's two more important things to consider about what makes a Jake a Jake. A Jake isn't that big. So you weighed your big turbo Jake. What did he weigh out at? 15.8, just under – yeah, 15 and a half pounds. So the Jake I killed this morning is smaller big turbo Jake. What did he weigh out at? 15.8, just under, you know, 15 and a half pounds.

So the Jake I killed this morning is smaller than that Jake. Yeah, I didn't weigh him yet. Shorter beard, like shorter nubbins. Yeah. Little atrophied, not atrophied, they have never grown. It's not that they shrank. Atrophied would make you think his spurs shrank.

Undeveloped spurs and not a hefty bird. Now, the rope dragger I killed 25 pounds four ounces why are you shaking your head i'm not just like a jealous shake it will a little bit i guess yeah so although i think i got you on total poundage yes so there is a big size difference now here's the important part and this is what yanni's gonna speak to here's the important part jakes are um gullible so jakes will gang up with other jakes and hens don't want to have sex with them so they're just like they're like uh they run around in little groups two jakes three jakes nine jakes run around in little groups, two jakes, three jakes, nine jakes, run around in little groups,

just dying for attention from other turkeys. If they go to a big gobbler, like a big rope dragger, he's going to kick their ass. Hens won't do it with them. And they're just around trying to fit into the whole scene. And they come to calls pretty aggressively.

So for all of these reasons um size goal ability some people will not shoot jakes i do not have this problem but yanni uh passed up jakes and now is fixing to shoot a Jake. And it goes against one of Yanni's beliefs, which is don't pass up on the first day what you'd be happy to have on the last day. Yeah. So now. I was thinking about that because I do say that. But I was also thinking about that

I'm like okay with going home empty-handed. You know what I mean? You're okay going home without your turkey meat? Yeah, so like... You don't want to have a little turkey stir fry

or a little turkey schnitzel or a little turkey soup or turkey smoke turkey. I've got two rope draggers already packaged and wrapped up in the freezer. Because you've been hunting other states. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So feeling a little cocky in that.

But, yeah, I'm okay with going home empty-handed. So I'm weighing, you know, the experience. I kind of want the show and I want to interact with that old gobbler and now I've had that twice with Doug and we've had a couple other sessions

so I've sort of satiated myself with that with the experience part of it and now I'm like alright I get it but like i i shoot jakes but even though i shoot jakes i still in my life have shot more non-jakes than jakes yeah for sure you know because i'm like i don't go out the other day that i haven't even seen that many jakes yeah like i'll go out, this morning I went out and purposefully targeted a big rope dragger.

Okay? Like I was planning on the rope dragger and was trying to get him. So it's not like I put together a plan to try to go get a Jake. But later in the morning, I like went out thinking I'm going to go find those jakes and call them in and get one. So it's not like you deprive yourself of the experience of matching wits with a sly old Tom, who's not actually that old because a two-year-old turkey is already an old man. A four-year-old turkey's dead. A three-year-old turkey is very old.

Now, this varies a lot, but a turkey biologist was the one telling me 75% of the eggs that get hatched... That get laid, you mean. Sorry, 75% of the eggs that get laid get destroyed. Now, the female will have multiple clutches, so when she loses a clutch of eggs, this is true with many bird species, like when she loses a clutch of eggs this is true with many bird species but if she loses a clutch of eggs she'll go have a second clutch so she gets a couple chances but

75 about just a general way to think about this 75% of the eggs that hit the ground will never hatch 75% of the birds that hatch will not see their first year of age. 75, about 75% of the turkeys, about 75% of jakes will not become rope draggers.

Because? Attrition. Death. Everything wants to kill turkeys except yanni everything from the minute they hit the ground that's why they get paranoid it's like the minute they hit the ground just like everybody wants to kill them i gotta say clarify something on the jakes if Okay, can I preface this? This is coming from the world's worst wildlife observer.

The world's worst wildlife observer, Dirt Myth, will now weigh in. He's now going to weigh in on Turkey's Jake psychology. Well, just to clarify, I feel like you made it seem like the Jakes were a guaranteed success. And yesterday we saw... Oh, I don't feel that way. No.

I guess I shouldn't say... We spooked... That's what I'm saying. Yesterday we saw 13, right? Is that about right? Yeah, but that also is like... That's the thing about Jakes. We spooked a bunch of groups of jakes yesterday because they're not shy

and they're standing out in the middle of fields in the middle of the day. So it's very hard to walk across the agricultural landscape. And not spook it. Because they're not doing like little sneaky little rope dragger activities, like hiding out in little woodlots. They're just like out running around willy-nilly in the middle of the field, so they kind of run into you as much as you run into them. And if you go to call, you're out trying to locate turkeys.

It's a risky maneuver, but you can locate it by going, call, call, like a crow, and shot gobble them, where they just respond to a loud noise by goblin. Or you can go around and like, and go out and make hen calls. Yeah. Okay. So the thing is,

if it's a big old, a big old boss, Tom, and he hears the hen, he's going to, he's going to gobble. But then, cause he's an old sly old dog.

He's not going to come pouring in. Like you're going to romance him and play this game, right? But if you go and you're just trying to locate a Tom and you make a noise, the damn Jakes might already be on a full tilt toward you. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So you do bump Jakes.

So, yeah, it's like they're not – yeah, you can't just go out and necessarily kill them because things happen. Yeah. Yeah, and that's what I was saying is if I were to – I haven't turkey hunted yet in my life, but if I were and I saw Jake and I shot it and harvested it successfully, I'd be stoked. So, yeah, we'll come back to Yanni for a minute and what goes on in his mind. Dirt, you've never hunted turkeys i mean i've been on i mean you holding shotgun trying to kill turkey no do you let's say tomorrow i was like dirt we didn't we have a surprise for you we didn't tell you but you we have we bought you a

turkey tag and we're just our whole day is focused on dirt getting to Turk. Now, would you hunt for a Jake? Just one day. No, I mean, okay. No, no, I'm saying. Forget the elaborate scenario. Do you see, like if you were turkey hunting, would you be like, I don't give a shit if it's a Jake or a not? No, no, I would be, it would, it depend on the timing.

I mean, I think the psychology, the thought process would be the same as you guys who are seasoned hunters, like first day out of a four day hunt, I would be holding off for the big one and the big show. Yeah. Just take, so you're already into it. You already see it. Yeah. Well, I mean, the allure of a, of a, of a monster.

Yeah, for sure. But if I had one day and the first morning, you know, out there sitting for an hour and I saw Jake, and that was my only day, I'd shoot it. Pat Durkin, are you a Jake man? Like, will you put the Jake brakes on a Jake? Not usually. I mean, not until later in the hunt.

If I get a chance late in the hunt, I'll shoot him without even thinking twice. But early on, though, I like to see that big rope coming through. I like to see the fan, all that kind of fun stuff. And then when you see a gobbler pop up and you see the little extra where it's not an even fan, and you know it's a Jake, initially I get bummed. I think, oh, it's a Jake. But then late in the hunt, I think, ah, I'm willing to go home without one.

I mean, I don't have a problem doing that, but I think that's why early in the hunt when you start passing them up, a lot of times you don't get that chance back. Yeah, exactly. You just don't. Now this is coming from a man who I found out earlier today has a personal pact that if he shoots a buck he gets it mounted it's an inviolable pact with himself he has a lawyer a doctor a cpa and a taxidermist that's right and you have mounted

and he has 30 white-tailail deer mounted in his house. I do. No exaggeration. How many did you kill before you got the first one stuffed? Oh, a lot. A lot. So then what year did you be like, from now on, I'm stuffing them all? My big year was 95, 1995.

I shot three at that point were the biggest bucks that were shot in my life. Like bang, bang bang bang i went on a hunt in um buffalo county wisconsin bow and arrow first morning out got a nice eight point buck with with split brow times uh gotta get that buck mounted probably about 140 class buck then i went to ontario two weeks later shot this big what i call them the cathedral antlers these nice tight 13 inch spread 30 daphan spread and that was uh one of those bucks you do man and in between i forgot the other big buck i got was one out in eastern colorado whereas i it was right after a blizzard had blown through nasty hunt and the wind was just gusting. But I made a, it was a long shot, but we had missed a couple shots.

I'd missed a couple shots, and we figured out you've got to aim a lot more out in front of that buck at that distance, and shot, broke his neck, went down. So I had these three bucks, and I knew I was going to get them all mounted. And I just made this pack to myself. I thought, up to that point i have one buck on the wall that was in 1993 i'd shot that one and i thought well now we got four of them and three are basically not all the taxidermist you know from now on i'm just not going to shoot a buck unless i really want to put them on the wall and what's uh what's what's uh

mrs durkin like what's her take i mean people always ask me that because i have a lot of stuff around i have a lot of skulls and hides and i never got anything stuffed before but i got all kinds not well i got rugs right which is their stuff because they had stuff down them but um i never got anything stuffed and hang on the wall but i have all kinds of shit hanging around all over my house hides and skulls and whatnot me too but 30 stuffed deer what's she think about that i mean that's like a whole other level of stuffedness i chose wisely she likes all that yeah i married wisely my my wife um i remember one of her comments first first time i got buck mounted we were about 13 years into our marriage.

And I remember I finally got this buck mounted. And she says, I always thought it was kind of strange that the editor of Deer and Deer Hunting Magazine didn't have any deer heads in the wall. Maybe he's making a statement. Well, no. My statement was I was shooting everything that moved early in my hunting life. Anything that had antlers, I'd shoot it. And then by the time I got into my, I was probably late 30s by that time, I started getting a little more picky, a little more picky more.

And then in 95, like I say, it was a big breakout year where you just have everything falls into place. And my wife, though, we have a house that has an interior that just kind of fits that that look you know it's it's old barn board um is our lover house's barn board interior on the ceilings yes yeah i would argue that i would argue that it uh that it's too predictable oh it could be because i have a very modern house with a lot of hides and skulls and it creates like a tension huh that i like a lot yeah it's like you know quentin tarantino movies when they'll have a very erudite like he'll have a person right yeah who's very genteel and extremely like his characters be extremely well spoken yeah very genteel but then they say the most violent profane thing in the world and it creates a tension right between the persona

yeah and then this thing so he'll have his characters who have like this like way they speak and then when they say like really like long drawn out strings of profanities you sense this sort of right yeah this push and pull. And so with modern decor and skulls creates like a thing that you walk into and it's almost like you stepped into a fight.

Right? Johnny has a log home and he's leery about overdoing it on buckheads and whatnot because it's like oh yeah yeah it's a log home so you put a bunch of deer heads my house isn't quite quite like that and i think when i get the tension thing i think it's cool that my wife who grew up on the east coast never knew a hunter till she met me so that's the tension i think that's the tension for us you know that people

walk into the house and that's the first thing I always ask her is, did you kill all these? How do you put up with this? Yeah. She gets that question a lot. Why do you put up with this? Her only rule, honestly, God,

the only rule she has is no deer heads in our bedroom. Everywhere else it says. I hear a lot of guys say that, but I don't understand that either. I don't understand it, but I figure she gives me free rain in the living room, on the staircase. Yeah, that's good.

The kitchen area. Well, not so much the kitchen, but we have an adjoining kitchen and dining room. So the dining room's got quite a few whitetails around it. And we also have a big walleye in there, and we have a salmon. And in our room, I have a wild pig from Florida that my daughter shot that's in kind of like a big guest room area. And then we have an elk in there that my daughter Leah shot. You ever stuff a turkey? I've got two of them, two full-body mounts. Really?

Yeah. I can see the inside of this house. Right? It's like walking into a Cabela's is what it sounds like. You got a big aquarium full of largemouth bass no no when our kids when our kids were all home i had three daughters bubblegum machine with some pellets my daughters used to bring boyfriends home the boyfriends were more interested in seeing all the dead animals in my house than they were and if they, and if they didn't show my daughters enough

attention when they were touring the house with having me show them around and talk to them about different deer, if they spent too much time with talking to Dad, that was kind of it for them as far as my girls were concerned. They thought... They didn't want a boyfriend who wanted to talk to their old man all night

about his bald heads. The only reason you want to see me is because you want to talk deer hunting with my dad. Yeah. And they cut them off. Was that the case with all three of them? Because Leah was into hunting, wasn't it? Not Leah, but Leah would always send a date guys that weren't into hunting.

So figure that one out. That's interesting, yeah. How many buckheads are hanging in the room we're in right now? Well, there's a lot of racks and stuff in here. Actual amounts? Four. There are slightly fewer buckheads in here than are in Pat Durkin's house. But these are just racks, mostly Doug Duren style of a tax during where you saw the skull cap off and screw it to a board.

Now, Doug, what's your feeling on shooting jakes? I shot one. Yeah, but what's your feeling on it? Because you passed a bunch of jakes up. Once. But we had talked about that. Once? That was the first time you passed jakes in your life?

No, no, no, no. Just the other morning. You passed up other jakes in your life? Yes. Because they're not good enough for you uh no because similar circumstance it's only happened twice before so it's not like i have this vast experience of turkey hunting jake passage yeah but uh we saw the this group of jakes that i eventually shot one from come across the field and yanni looked at it through the knocks.

He goes, the one that's by itself kind of on the outside is a bigger one. What do you think? And we talked about it. And they came into the decoys. We still had a gobbler in the tree 100 yards the other direction that we thought. That's right. A big reason that that pass happened in the morning is because no more than 100 yards away, there was a gobbler hammering. And he was still in the tree late in the morning is because no more than 100 yards away, there was a gobbler hammering.

And he was still in the tree late in the morning. And we figured if he landed on that strip of, you know, basically grass between the woods and these pines that we were set up in, he would for sure look down there and see our decoys. And those jakes. Yeah, and these jakes come in there and start a fight, and they're fighting purring and making all kinds of jake noises. And we're like, it's going to happen.

But I think we should point out, because earlier I was trying to catalog the things that distinguish a jake from a tom, like a mature tom. One of them is that a mature Tom can gobble like a good, robust gobble that will like part your hair, right? Yeah. And a Jake has kind of a little like a goofy kind of gobble. Yeah.

And a lot of times they don't make any noise. Yeah, this week we haven't heard a Jake gobble yet. It might just be too early in the season. You know, they're not just quite feeling their oats yet. Well, Doug was saying he saw some jakes gobbling earlier. Oh, there you go. Did you tell me that? No, he was telling me that those jakes.

Yeah. Not all of them, but that one. That one did like a, if a normal gobbler goes, gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble, this dude went, gobble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when Yanni says that he could hear off. So, okay. Explain what happened.

How you went out the night before, all that. Just tell people the whole deal. Like you're giving someone insight into how to kill turkeys. We weren't hunting because it was the night before the season. It was the night before season. Here in Wisconsin, they have six... Nine day? Or seven day?

Seven day. Six, seven day seasons. We're here for season C. We got here the evening before and we had just enough time to run out and try to roost a bird. Roost a tom. You brought up something I want to explain now. Instead of just having turkey season We had just enough time to run out and try to roost a bird, roost a tom. No, hold on.

You brought up something I want to explain now. Okay. Instead of just having turkey season, right, where people have a license to go hunting turkeys, Wisconsin breaks everything up. A, B, C, D, then what? E. That's as late as it goes?

And then F. There's an F season? There's an F season. There's an F, yeah. There's an F. So it's like You gotta know what week You wanna hunt turkeys Hey folks Exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada

And boy my Goodness do we hear from the Canadians Whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes And our raffle and sweepstakes Law Makes it that they can't join Our northern brothers Get irritated Well if you're sick of Our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew. Our northern brothers get irritated.

Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking a high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. That's right. We're always talking about OnX here on the Meat Eater Podcast. Now you guys in the Great White North can be part of it, be part of the excitement.

You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services handpicked by the OnX Hunt team. Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet.

onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX club, y'all. A, B, and C are hard. Like, A, B, and C sell out and c sell out d e f generally you can keep you get more tags people like generally like if you're a non-resident of wisconsin and you send in your application if you put down c you'll get the c if you put down b you'll get beat out by residents and won't

get awarded a tag probably if you do you do see, you're guaranteed, you're virtually guaranteed that you will get a turkey tag to hunt. And people want to go earlier because they think all the, you know, rightfully so, a lot more birds are still alive. There are more turkeys alive at the day one of season A than there are the last day of season F by a long shot. Sometimes as many as 50,000 in this state. Yeah. There's 50,000 more Toms alive than when A starts

than there are when F ends. And they haven't been educated by people in the woods making turkey noises. So, yeah. When we're talking about season C, that's what we're talking about. It's like the earliest season that, one, it's the earliest season that a non-residue can draw. And also, it's the earliest season that once tags go on sale and they sell excess tags, it's the earliest season that you're going to be able to buy an excess tag for. And they sell out quickly. Like, we were on the phone buying C tags.

I got one. I was on the phone with Yannianni he's hitting like refresh and he never got one they had sold out by then the second tag so i have two season c tags because i got one through the lottery and one through buying excess tags and yanni got one through the lottery and was on a phone call and shit and missed the first couple minutes of the excess tag sale, and then they were gone. Gone, so. They sure were. That's how I got the second one also.

So if you apply for season C in Wisconsin, at least in zone one, you're going to get a tag. Yeah. If you apply a December 10th deadline and all of that. Yeah, so I was just telling listeners. Yeah, and I wonder if that's the case with Season B, too. No. No.

You won't. A non-resident won't draw a B. Oh, is that right? The second year you will, right? Because you get a point. Yeah, but here's how it works. If you're willing to not... This has got to be boring as shit for people.

But listen, if you're willing to not, this has got to be boring as shit for people, but listen, if you're willing to not hunt and you put down first choice B, no second choice on your application, then you will get a bonus point. But they pull your bonus point as long as they send you a tag. So I thought I had accumulated bonus points in Wisconsin by applying first choice B, second choice C. They would send me my tag, but I thought since I didn't hit my first choice, I get a point. And I call because it's shown that I have no points. And they said, no, because you got a tag. So what you have to do is you have to put down B, no second choice. Not get a tag and then call them by an XS, C or D tag, and then you'll accrue a point

to help you get a B. That is way more complicated than it should be. No, it's not. I love this stuff. I think it's pretty easy. The reason I like all this stuff is because it favors the serious. I like anything that makes it that last minute jackasses,

right? The last minute like, oh, you know, I don't know, my buddies are going, I decided, like, and it keeps those people

out of the woods and favors people who are obsessive, I think is like a good thing. If they made a rule that you have to be able to do 25 pushups to get a turkey tag, I'd be like, okay.

Sure. Why not? I'm joking. But any barrier to entry. And I don't mean physical because that's not fair. I take that back. That was an awful thing to say. But sending in a little bit of paperwork and a stamp,

it's like you're going out to kill a big giant bird. It's not that bad that you've got to send in a form stating your intent to hunt. I just check that landowner box. That makes it easier. Does it? Yeah, I get whatever season I want. Because you own land. It's like the European system.

Do you ever catch little Robin Hoods out here and hang them? I got a couple of them sitting here right now. So I run up to the top of the hill. That was all love. About 30 minutes before dark. Season C. And my plan is to try to roost the turkey. The eve of season C.

Which means that you go out there in the evening and you make some sort of loud, obnoxious sound, usually the call of a barred owl, a coyote, a crow, slam the truck door. Scream. Yell. Yeah, we've shocked them up by going, hey! Yeah, you could blow on an elk bugle. Kevin Murphy's horn would sure as hell make him gobble.

I have heard birds shot gobble from coyotes, car horns, crows, sonic booms from aircraft um dogs barking my brother matt screaming uh coyote yips i used to just take an elk call a bite and blow elk call and just make a heinous loud high-pitched sound with that and shot gobble them up will primos says, someone says, why do turkeys shotgun? His answer is it's just them saying this is my time of the year. I like that. Yeah, roosters crowing, pheasant roosters, geese,

ducks, shotgun shots, trucks going over rumble strips. But not every time. Today when you, there were crows making noise all along that ridge. Shotgun shots. Trucks going over rumble strips. But not every time. Not every time. Today, there were crows making noise all along that ridge. Yeah, but I do what's called the power crow. Right in my ears, I recall.

Doug Seibold got a shotgun out of him. He was looking for morels, and I ripped out a power crow into his face without giving him a heads up. So there you are, Yanni. Yeah. You're trying to put one to roost. Yes. And I'd like to get all my,

I like the least calls I can have on me the better. So one day maybe I'll be able to make a hen sound with my own voice. Can't do that yet. Yeah, I carry one shot gobble thing. I used to carry an owl and a crow, but I just have good luck with my crow. Yeah.

I have the coyote because it reaches out the farthest. I feel like it really reaches out there. But I gave him my... Do it for real. Anyone think it would be too loud? No. I'm not claiming to be a good barred owl

imitator. Here's the thing. At the risk of interrupting your tale, it doesn't matter. A lot of turkey hunters are really obsessed about these realistic shot gobble sounds. You're right. You're right. I don't think it matters. No.

It doesn't matter to the turkey. You go on YouTube and a dude's like, exactly like, oh, yeah, but a barred owl. It's like they don't. yeah, but a barred owl. They don't... Was that a real shotgun shot or a fake shotgun shot? Because I might shotgun it. I want to impress my buddies and what I like, and Pat can attest to this, is today I had a barred

owl respond to me. So I was like, great. No, no. For just general woodsmanship, yeah, great. It's great to know how to do a barred owl call. So I usually do a, woo, woo, woo, woo. Yeah. Something like that. It's good.

It's convincing. And I heard barred owls answer you. So a couple birds answer way off in the distance, and I run down a fence line maybe a couple hundred yards, and before I can do another call call a bird goes off pretty close like less than 200 yards to where i know what ridge what line of trees he's roughly on i listen to him for a few minutes and back out of there yeah this is so yeah you you preface this right by saying this is like turkey hunting 101, right?

Yeah, I was explaining how to roost a bird. So now you know what tree he's sleeping in. In the morning, under the cover of darkness, Doug and I slept in. And you can kind of suss out the terrain and be like, if he's roosting there, where is it? Like, what's his, probably where is he going to go in the morning? Mm-hmm. Right?

You can kind of suss it out. Like, if you got one roosted up, and on one side is this giant thorny hellhole, and then the other side is this little open meadow area, you'd be like, my guess, chances are better than not that he's going to not go into the thorny hellhole and want to pitch out and land down where he can actually hit the ground without crash landing. And so it's helpful when you know where he is. And both times I've set up on rooster birds this week,

they've pitched down into the hellhole canyon, never to be seen again. And when they have any kind of topography, they like to roost near slopes. Yeah. More than on flat ground. I think it's easy for them to get into the tree. You know, they're up on a bench or something and they make a short little pitch out.

You know, the ground drops out from underneath them and then they're 20 feet up in a tree. We watched in Mexico one time hunting out in the desert. We watched where they were roosting in cottonwoods down along, I think it was cottonwoods, down along near a little water hole

and they would climb up the slope and get higher than where they were going to roost and pitch off the slope and then higher than where they were going to roost and pitch off the slope and then land out in the riparian zone in a cottonwood. And it'd be funny because they just would like, as part of us getting in the tree, they just do that walk and then shoot out and land in the treetop rather than trying to lift off. Smart critters. So there you are, the next morning morning next morning doug and i slip in

we set up three decoys dsds dave smith decoys we uh had a feeding hen an upright hen and big boss yeah strutter with we're oututter. We're in Wisconsin where they have the eastern turkey subspecies, and I have a Merriam's tail fan on this. I was a little worried, kind of like I'm a little worried if my barred owl call sounds good, which it was stupid to think that a turkey's going to be like, hey, that dude's tail feathers are a little bit lighter. No, because animals hate different, right? They hate different.

So it's better because they're like, I'm especially going to beat that thing up. Yeah. Because it's got a weird colored fan. Like deer will beat up deer that have a limp. They do not like shit to be different. There's a rigidity to nature. Differences are not celebrated. Unless it's just strength.

Strength is admired. A limp is fighting. Drop time. Do they like it? You don't know if they like it. What I'm aware of is that they don't like weakness. They don't like deformities.

They don't like anything that suggests weakness. They'll go after it.. They don't like anything that suggests weakness. They'll go after it. You know, deer, turkeys, whatever they, when a turkey gets shot, a gobbler gets shot, the other gobbler's beat the crap out of them. Yeah, that's always weird. When you hit a turkey and the other turkey's beat it up.

Yeah. But I've seen those in the winter when somebody has a feeder out in their backyard. This one fawn had a broken, like a broken, distorted neck, and it'd come in and his head was always askew. The other deer would always push it off, get it out of there. They were just mean as hell to it.

The only deer that would pay that deer any kindness was its own mother. Other deer would always just shun it, kick it. Or albinos get the same treatment a lot of times. They go near other deer and get beat up that's why you see albinos by themselves yeah i went to when i was working on my book about buffalo i went out to see this famous white buffalo called white cloud and um white clouds always way away from the herd and the people are like they run the place we're like well that you

know the other buffalo know he's special, right? And he has special magic. And this one guy that works out there is like, no. He tells me that. He goes, no, they beat the shit out of that thing. He goes, it just stays off by itself now. Well, I saw that turkey that I assume got that big Tom down here last week that I assume got hit by a car.

Oh, yeah. Just getting the shit kicked out of it by another one. Killed it or finished it off. Finished it off. And I'm assuming, I mean, there was some activity there that looked like there may have been a fight. But a friend came and got it, tagged it. And when they cleaned it, it didn't have any big cut marks in it or anything like it. So we were kind of assuming it got hit by a car.

But there it was. I'm driving up, and it's 30 yards off the road. And the other one is just punching it, pecking it. And then he walked off when I walked out to see what the heck was going on. And then you went and found a dead badger. Just out doing farm boy activities. Well, yeah. It was the dead animal weekend last. Now, Yanni, it's a little bit like you're playing

rhythm guitar as you tell your story and other people are soloing on top of your story. So there you are. I don't mind that. There you are. You got your DSDs. Got got my dsds i always want to finish on the roosting uh thought is that what it really gives you is it gives you a nice place to start in the morning you're not like in the darkness blind going oh hope there's like a

gobbler somewhere around here at some point and you're getting like you have anxiety because like you're like should we go here should we go there you're like you can walk out calmly a cup of coffee in you and just go right where you're going knowing that it's probably not going to work out yeah yeah but it gives you a place to start yeah and uh sometimes it does but uh yeah so we set up our three decoys and uh this bird, when we got there, he was gobbling. Gobbling, gobbling, gobbling, gobbling. I mean, he gobbled hundreds of times. Full gobbles.

Like he's a rope dragger. Mm-hmm. And stayed in the tree. And before we had seen any other turkeys, it was probably close to an hour after daylight, right? When these jakes came out? Yeah. And we didn't spook this tom because we were just too far away.

He just could not see us. He couldn't see our decoys. He's just gobbling away. I mean, I inspected every tree down that ridge trying to find it with my binoculars and just could not see him. So he was just out of sight. And, yeah, these jakes pop up on the horizon i don't know a couple hundred yards at least 200 yards away yeah and uh i'm calling a little bit here and there

and uh those jakes you know you see one get his periscope his neck nice and high he looks down to where we are and they just turned and just marched right on in four pack well yeah i wonder if they were different age because it was like there was three, and then there was one. One off by himself. And that one had like a, you know. Well, he had kind of a, where's the, the younger ones have like an artist's brush,

just a little tiny, you know. His was a little wider. Yeah, but it's definitely a Jake though, right? I mean, it's not a two-year-old bird. No, it's not a two-year-old bird. No, it's not a two-year-old bird. No, 16 pounds. Just maybe born earlier or hatched earlier or good nutrition. Power Jake.

Power Jake. Maybe he was really good. I know I was throwing out a lot of 75 percentiles earlier, but when they're a poult, they eat about their diet is about 75% insect matter, 25% plant matter for a good, healthy turkey.

A lot of need to be a lot of grubs, a lot of worms, a lot of insects. And then in adulthood, it's flipped. A lot less protein, a lot more green. So maybe he had a little honey hole grub patch and was just cleaning house. It makes you wonder if they're from the same brood or all of that. Are they brothers or are they just like freshman boys at the high school dance?

Yeah, now and then. You're a big guy. You're probably bigger than, now and then. You're a big guy. You're probably bigger than all the other kids. You're like that Jake. Well, then it's probably. Let me see your nubbins. So, Yanni, there you are. You got your DSDs out.

Big flock of hungry Jakes coming at you. Are you scared? No, we're just, like, that's what we're there for, right? It's to see the show, and we got it. I mean, it was great. Are you scared? No. That's what we're there for, right? It's to see the show. And we got it. I mean, it was great. Four Jakes come in, just bypass those hens.

Didn't even... Yeah, there were two hens. They're more interested in beating up a turkey than they are having sex with a turkey. And they had to walk through the two hens. I knew guys like that in high school. Right? Guys that would be like, that would pass up ladies to fight. You know?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, you got your priorities crooked. But we had decided, we talked about it as they were coming down because we were sitting pretty much side by side. Well, it's a little early and that other guy is Goblin.

So we thought we had the perfect scenario with these decoys coming into our decoys. Yeah. We were doubling down. You thought the rope dragger was going to come out and just start kicking everybody's ass. Decoys. Yeah, because how could he? Decoys, jakes, just blood. How could he stand having four jakes in there fighting, purring, and cackling, and flapping their wings around?

I mean, that turkey activity, you could certainly hear it from where he was. Yeah, and Tom would be like, whatever's going on down there, I'm going to go down and settle it. There's starters and settlers. Instead, they eventually had enough of the decoys, and they saw a couple dudes eventually sitting by some trees. Instead, they eventually had enough of the decoys, and they saw a couple dudes eventually sitting by some trees, and they're like, yeah, we're going to peace out of here.

Because you guys are 30 yards away. Yeah. Oh, we had them a couple times at feet. They were on the other side of a pine tree that I was sitting on the other side. So they got suspicious, as turkeys do. Yeah, and as they left, they did some putting. You know how jakes, they're not like, even when they're putting away from you, they're kind of like, I'm scared, I'm scared, but man, that was fun.

I'm scared. Oh, should I go back? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And so they kind of fade off, and they just happen to fade right underneath the gobbler, and it sure seemed like as they went there, he finally came out of the tree and then went away from us. Then, time goes by.

You fellas come back to the farmhouse. Doug had had, as he put it the other day, what did you call it, a blessing here on the farm? What do you call it? Fresh cow, yeah. Yeah, but you used a term. I don't remember what I called it. Kiefer came over and you said we had a small blessing

or a miracle on the farm today? I don't remember what I said, but yeah said we had a small blessing or a miracle on the farm today? I don't remember what I said, but yeah, we had a calf anyway. A cow birthed a calf. And I was a little concerned about the calf because it didn't seem to be getting the idea down about how it gets something to eat. So we came down, we got a little cup of coffee, a little breakfast, and I said, hey, I'll check on that calf.

And we walked down there, kind of climbed up on the fence and was looking at the calf and yeah he looks way to the north and goes there's some turkeys down well you know they call him the Latvian eagle well no I just call myself that yeah not much game gets by this kid well no he'll spot it up he's the turkey eye as far as I'm concerned the Latvian turkey spotter. The Latvian turkey. So he said, and what do you think? And I was like, well. So we came back, got our stuff, and pretty much went back to the spot that we'd already set up in.

By the way those birds were moving, it looked like they were going to come pretty much where we had been in the morning. Like they had done their whole thing for a couple hours. So they'd been on some little adventure and were working their way right back to their starting point. If I've come to realize something in 10 years of turkey hunting now, it's that they are creatures of habit. Of loops. Creatures of loops. And unless they're messed with or bumped or whatnot,

they're going to do their loop and come back. And this time you were waiting for them. And you put your decoys down. No, we, well, barely. We got there and peeked around the corner and I saw one of them. Stand there like a statue for

15 minutes. To the point where I thought he had us. And he just kind of, he'd look our way, you know, just 90 degree head turns straight away and then towards us or 90 degrees to us towards us, back and forth, back and forth, not moving. I'm thinking, man, we screwed it up. He saw us just something in these pines.

It ain't going to last. But we figured, well, we'll try it anyway. So Doug gets into position. I'm watching him. He hasn't spooked yet. I back out, look at him one more time. He hasn't spooked yet. Do a little loop belly

crawl out with strutter again just him set him belly crawl back and called for i don't know maybe 15 20 minutes yeah long long enough that we were starting to doze off yeah i was close doug was said maybe he actually made it it's the worst kind of sleep like because you get when you're like what time we've been setting the alarm for uh 3 45 so we get up at 3 45 in the morning right and then when you're out on the evening hunt you're out there till past eight it's just like yeah you get dinner and all that shit get your gear squared away it's like you get low on sleep and you can't help when the sun comes up and it gets warm you get nappy feeling so you're so nappy feeling but at the same time the minute you doze off you like feel like you heard a gobble or something it's just like a very fitful night it's like it really puts you in a bad place yeah and trying to sleep in the turkey woods i mean we

are in nap time. Nap time. I hadn't seen anything. No, nothing. We didn't know. I figured it was as good of a chance that they had spooked off as anything. I called for a bit, and all of a sudden I hear, I think, it's squirrels hopping around. Because we had seen a bunch of squirrels in the morning there. It's a little squirrely area up there.

And I'm hearing, I'm like,s you know but then i'm like yeah there's some jakes like not too far from here now there's some noise maybe i should just get my gun up and no sooner am i like i didn't even get my gun to my knee i was like i had it halfway up to my knee and i look and there's one redhead and then another redhead i'm like oh i hope doug's awake we were at that point we were probably 30 yards apart we were sitting together we were There's one redhead and then another redhead. I'm like, oh, I hope Doug's awake. At that point, we were probably 30 yards apart. We were sitting together. We were probably 30 yards apart.

Yeah. And we had talked about not shooting into the pines because we were both sitting in the pines. Yeah, we'd done the whole safety check. You had a safety plan. We had a safety plan. And I'm looking back at the spot, and I see that movement. I can't hear anything, so I didn't hear that noise, but it was the same thing.

One. And so I'm trying to get turned to where I can shoot, and I'm thinking, well, I can shoot left-handed maybe because they're really close to me. And the fourth one was the biggest one, like we had decided earlier in the day. So Yanni could have had that bird, but he didn't pull the trigger as quickly as I did.

Yeah, I was going to brag that I've only passed up a Jake one time, being that morning when we had the gobbler, but then I remember that I must have passed up a Jake later that day. So I passed up two Jakes in my turn. Because they were kind of lining up for you, weren't they? I mean, you could have probably shot two of them with one shot. Maybe. I can't remember now.

And then you blouched. Blouched. Do you know why they call Jake breaks Jake breaks? No. Jacob Industries makes that. I don't know if they still do. A place called Jacob Industries makes that compression break. Huh. Me and my brother used to live in a trailer park

alongside of Highway 90 in montana and holy shit you get sick of listening to those things man because it was on the down slope yeah people coming down out of you know around they come down bozeman pass i don't know blasted awake every night with them freaking things but my brother calls when he shoots jake he puts the jake brakes on it that's not very nice um so you got the jake got the jake down he went that was over we were very excited about it now meanwhile i had gone out i hadn't gone out and roosted a turkey i had not i wasn't as aggressive and as good of a hunter as yanni was and i just was trusting that I would find gobblers. And I did.

I went out to what I refer to as the navel of the Dern farm. You could call it the heart of the Dern farm, but the navel, like the set where all activity is centered. I'm going to use that from now on. That's what the navel of the farm. Doug says, if you hit a deer and you wound a deer and you're once you're trailing it you will pass through the name

like it just they just it's the navel of the funnel of the whole yeah yeah it really is place you know so i went down to the navel and'm sitting there, and up above me at a place known widely as Rinella Ridge, there are three gobblers. You can tell they're roosted up in trees. When you sit there in the dark, you get a sense of where they all are when they're gobbling, and you can even hear how they're in different trees. And there's a cascading effect. One will go like an aggressive one he'll hammer and then his buddies will hammer over him but the sound like jumps down the ridge because they're like in these

different trees so it's like but it just moves you know then it starts back at the top and moves down it's like someone like running their fingers down a piano. And then there's this other gobbler just hammering his ass off up in this pine area. And they were all too far away for me. I knew

that eventually they might come through the navel as all things do, but they were like far away gobbles. And they hit the ground. One hit the ground and gobbled for a while. Then he kind of gobbled his way farther away. And the other ones, I could never figure out what happened to them.

And I worked up to a place called the Wet Spot, which my brother used to like to think up names for bars. Like if he was to buy a bar what he would name it and um repeat offender tight fit the wet spot and ginger snapper was four names that he had he never bought a single bar in his life but he had four names ready and one of them was the wet spot and it's weird because on duran farm maps there's a place called the wet spot and i asked doug i'm like you know the big mud puddle that's always there and doug's like yes you're referring to the wet spot so i went up to the wet spot which was around where the gobbling was occurring and then i sit down get camouflaged

and rip out a hen call, a couple yelps, and as turkeys are wont to do, they gobble back the direction I had just come from, which happens because it was a roundabout way of getting there. Call, call, call, dead. They just went, you know, working with hens. One of the things that makes turkeys hard to call in at daybreak is they, when they're up in the roost, they're probably up in the roost with hens. One of the things that makes turkeys hard to call in at daybreak is they, when they're up in the roost, they're probably up in the roost with hens.

And I know there was a lot of hens cutting, like tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, cutting up in the tree with them. When they were in the tree, yeah. Yeah. In fact, I kept thinking there was no gobbles in just hens purring and cutting and carrying on up in the trees. And I thought there's no way there's no gobble

gobblers with those hens and it wasn't until well in the daybreak when they started gobbling but what what the reason i knew that that was there was because the hens so a reason a gobbler is hard to call in sometimes in the early morning is he's still with his hens he's like traveling with the hens and displaying for them now as the day goes on if they're laying the hens and displaying for them. Now, as the day goes on, if they're laying, the hens will leave him and go off to lay eggs. And then he might then become very susceptible to calling because now he's got no females around him. So all this talk about getting up and roosting them and all that,

the most of turkeys I kill, I start killing turkeys around 9 a.m. I kill a lot of turkeys between 9 and noon. Seems like in the morning it either happens right away or it's 9 o'clock. You get lucky. Not lucky, but you get in a situation where you're set up where he wants to be and the

hens come or whatever, and you get them. And that does happen, but you kill a lot of turkeys in the late morning. So, I was like, never mind these turkeys. I'm just going to go on a little walkabout. And I walk quite a long ways, and I get out to an area where I'm confused about property ownership. And I don't want to cross the fence because I don't really understand what all is what. And I rip out a power crow and get a gobble from a tom.

Down in this section of this big woodlot butts up against a field. And I'm sitting there glassing out, and I glass up two hens feeding around out in the open. Set up and try to call the gobbler that I gobbled. He never showed up. That night, I went back. What time did we go down there, Dirk? Went back about three and set up where I was calling into where that one had shot gobbled.

And you were sure the property lines know, too. Yeah, I clarified property lines with Doug. Went down there and kind of like crept in there and got set up where I'm calling into this, where I feel that that bird shot gobbled out of, even though he was hundreds of yards away when I shocked him up. And I get comfortable,

almost to a nappy degree, and start calling. And how long did we lay there? Three hours? No. Probably two. Two. Yeah. We sat for two hours calling

probably every 20 or 30 minutes. Just on a slate, calling a pot call, every 20-30 minutes calling. No response. Just dead ass silent. And then at one point, I look and coming through the wood lot

at full strut without ever making a sound. There he is. The boss time. The big boy. And he comes out and it's like, you remember how I was talking about how Jake's are out in the middle of the fields

all day long raising holy hell. He's coming out of the woods and gets to the edge of the woods and will not leave that wood patch. He's just in the woods at a full strut. What are you laid up in? A windrow? A windrow.

A windrow that T-bones that woodlot. So I'm looking like through my windrow into the woodlot, and I can see him in there at full strut. I mean, balls out, full strut. Will not leave the woods. my call and i had somehow wound up on my peg and i was he was looking up like he was like looking where that sound had come from he knew where that sound had come from he's like looking looking looking and i'm feeling around i eventually find my peg and very slowly i'd like somehow gotten on top of it and i very

slowly get it up and i call a little, and then he comes out into the field, but he's still obstructed. How far was he when he was at the edge of the woods? 60 yards, 70 yards. Just out of range. But very heavily obscured. You're just seeing, as he kind of would spin around in there, you're just seeing fan, head, but not.

You couldn't take. Even if he was 40 yards away it would have been like yeah it's a little too much too much obstruction like too much shit to absorb pellets you're getting you're getting the show at this point is that what you're thinking you're like man oh yeah but no i'm thinking about that but i'm also thinking like you know all you're thinking about is killing the bird right yeah i want to get the bird so i call a little bit more and he starts stepping out in the field, and then I hear some dude dicking around on a quad runner.

A ways away. But getting louder. And I'd already been hearing him for a long time. Like, what is that guy doing? He's like quad running around. And all of a sudden, I'm like, how could this be happening? All of a sudden, that quad runner starts getting very close. All around.

And I'm watching, and the turkey's kind of like moving out. And I'm like, that's going to freak that turkey out. The other thing I'm trying to do is now I'm trying to adjust for where the turkey's going to be, and I'm moving my shotgun. So I don't know what did it. If it was the increasingly loud quad noise or me trying to like get my shotgun around but all of a sudden he drops out of strut but then i like really quickly like reached up and kapow and blouched him

that was a shocker to me too just the other two hunts i've been on with you, turkey hunts. It was all about the audio. And then that guy crept in. No, never a peep. Not a peep. Full display, but never gobbled. Yeah, but the last time I hunted with you. Well, that's right. I glassed those. We were up in the timber.

Talking about taking a nap. And I glassed. I was just looking into the woods with my knockers and caught a tail fan do you remember that yeah I remember I glassed up a tail fan 75 yards through the woods and we hit the deck

and started calling and I don't know how long it took before that thing finally walked over long time never a peep right at the end

like he had almost a death gobble yeah I know this is a bad idea, but here I come. He sensed the end was near all of a sudden and gobbled. A death gobble. You guys were saying that that's somewhat unique to the Easterns, that they don't gobble as frequently.

The reputation of Easterns, probably because they're more pressured the reputation is that they're less vocal yeah than than the other so yeah so wild turkeys all wild turkeys are wild turkeys if you ask geneticists they don't really like believe in the taxonomy so much some don't but you have eastern wild turkeys which are you know east of the mississippi but there are easterns western mississippi but just a way of thinking about this But you have eastern wild turkeys, which are east of the Mississippi. But there are easterns west of the Mississippi. But just a way of thinking about this. Easterns live east of the Mississippi and halfway down the Florida Peninsula. From about Lake Okeechobee south down the Florida Peninsula,

you have the Osceola wild turkey. So you have the eastern wild turkey, which has an enormous range. The Osceola in South Florida. And then you have Rios, like Rio Grande, which used to hang out around areas of texas oklahoma then you had the miriams which you had new mexico up in southern colorado and then you have the goulds which was the sky island mountain ranges of arizona southwestern new mexico and then the sierra madre and other areas of north mexico now i unlike my uh friends here am a a turkey grand slam holder which means which means which means that i have harvested all of these turkeys I'm discussing.

Now, what separates me from a world slam holder is that there is a bird, another type of turkey, altogether different species called the oscillated turkey of the Yucatan Peninsula down into Guatemala. I think it's some in Bolivia. That's the oscillated turkey. It's like a souped up turkey cross between a turkey and a peacock. Yeah. Not really, but resembles.

But not to get a description. Yeah. I've never tangled with the oscillated. Are all those different types of turkey indigenous to those areas? I was just given where they're from. Now it's a mess because what happened was – So they were indigenous to those areas. Yeah.

That's where they originated. I'm talking about their native range. Gotcha. That's their native range. So if you live in California, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and a shitload of other states, you do not live in native turkey country. If you live in Maine, you might not live in native turkey country. At the time of European contact, there were turkeys in 39 states. After all the market hunters got done with them, by like the early 1900s, you had turkeys left in 19 states.

And the holdouts in those states lived in the remotest, nastiest, swampiest backwater spots. They were like survivors. Holdouts. Then, in camp, largely the work of, I mean, when you say something like this, someone's going to get pissed.

But, largely through the work of the National Wild Turkey Federation, in cahoots with, in coordination with many rod and gun clubs and state fishing game agencies and all that kind of stuff. in cahoots with, in coordination with many rod and gun clubs and state fish and game agencies and all that kind of stuff. Like the Turkey Federation can't act unilaterally,

but they provided money and expertise and know-how and in conjunction with state fish and game agencies began first putting turkeys back where they belonged. So filling out native turkey ground. Then they took it a step further and put turkeys in where they belonged. So filling out native turkey ground. Then they took it a step further and put turkeys in place, introduced. So they did all their reintroductions and got a lot of the puzzle put back the way it was supposed to be, and then kept going and started putting turkeys where they had never before been. So now you have turkey seasons in 49 states.

The only state that doesn't have a turkey season is Alaska. And we have it on pretty good authority that there are some feral turkeys running around the Kenai Peninsula. So someday you might have a turkey season in Alaska. So when they were doing these reintroductions or introductions, they would experiment. Like I know that they tried Rios, no, that they tried Miriam's like up around Hell's Canyon and they didn't take, but Rios took there. So they would do a little bit of messing around. And then in some areas became like these like hybridization areas where now it's a total mess. You'll have guys say like, I have a farm in Nebraska and on my farm, I have Easterns, Miriam's and it's like

they're it's just like a big interbreeding mess there are some morphological traits you can look at and be like yes this turkey is you know has some traits of x but it's a mess now they're all mixed up yeah when you hunt the i-80 corridor there along the um what is that river there in uh nebraska is that the south plat yeah yeah pretty sure um you'll often like two birds will get killed and you bring them together and one just got a super you know buffed out white tail fan and the one next to it's copper brown yeah so one of the ways just a regular joe schmo can tell all the subspecies apart is some people say they're not actually subspecies but the the different varieties or let's just say subspecies is by looking at the tail the the the coloration on the back um my theory

and i've checked this out with biologists think it's not that bad is that the hotter the area, the more dry and hot the area, the more light-colored they have on their back. I think it has to do with heat dissipation and heat retention. The same way you don't run black Angus cattle in northern Mexico. They die. Does the size vary based on that? They get baked. But the only place where that doesn't hold true is like Texas and Florida.

Well, no, because look at the Goulds. He's got like more white. But he's not in Texas and Florida. He's over in. But in Texas, Miriam's and Rio's have a lighter colored back than the Eastern. More intense sun. Well, I feel like, is the Rio, is he lighter colored than the Eastern? Not by much.

A little bit. All right. Well, then if the Florida Panhandle. It's a gradation. They are the darkest birds of all. Yeah. Okay. So it's not seamless.

But Bergman's principle, right? Bergman's principle is if you look at a mammal's range mammals the as as they go north in latitude the largest specimens of a species in the mammal world the largest specimens are at the north end of their range but some animals fall outside of bergman's rule like for instance white tails definitely do not but But some animals fall outside of Bergman's rule. Like for instance, whitetails definitely do not, but mule deer fall outside of Bergman's principle. So you can have, I can call this the Rinella principle. Okay. And it can be have an exception, right? Just like when you put mammals on islands, they tend to become diminutive. When you put reptiles on islands, they tend to become diminutive. When you put reptiles on islands, they tend to become larger.

That's interesting. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. I have a question about all that. Please. So you're talking about this reintroduction and introduction. Yeah. So how long ago did all this work happen? Because I know in this area, when I was a kid, there were not turkeys here in the 70s.

No. And I was gone for a while, and then I came back, and this turkey flew in front of me as I was coming down the ridge road. You thought the Russians were here. What the hell was that? Yeah. It's a red dawn. And then I left again for five or six years,

and I came back, and everybody was turkey hunting. Yeah. I left Michigan right before turkeys began. Like, when I moved away, it was just becoming a thing. You could go up by, like, New Ago and maybe, like, draw a turkey tag. And I moved to Montana, and I wasn't gone a year or two, and all of a sudden, my old man's killing turkeys every spring within a couple miles of the house it just bam yeah it'd be like the turkey like the introduction

effort the reintroduction efforts I think began kind of in earnest in the 70s like they got good at it because if you want to look at like the history how all this happened they were they were screwing up for a long time where they thought that they could hatch and incubate eggs in captivity. And so they were putting a lot of money and a lot of effort into trying to pen-raise birds and release them. And it took a long time to sink in that that does not work. They don't take. So instead they're capturing and re-releasing. And then the rocket-propelled capture net hit the scene.

And once the rocket-propelled capture net hit the scene, and that had to join up with another thing, is you had to have some states doing good enough on turkeys that they were willing to spare them. Like our friend Bart George, who works on caribou in idaho and washington he'd love to like supplement those herds but to get the right animal there aren't a lot anywhere so you got to go and be like hey man can i get 30 caribou off you and people like dude i can't spare 30 you know i can't spare 30 that are the right subspecies yeah i can't spare 30 just immediately to the north can't spare 30. That are the right subspecies or whatever.

Yeah, I can't spare 30 just immediately to the north of you to give you the animal you want. So it's a problem. So you had states that were like getting a shitload of birds and they were getting comfortable with their birds. And then they had to get over this idea that you could just incubate eggs and hatch them in captivity and get them up to like keeper size and cut them loose

because they don't live they're not they're not paranoid enough so once they figured out that you go out and get captured with rocket rocket nets you capture real birds and put them on the ground and then it just took off and they i mean it took off and over the course of a couple decades they filled the country back up i'm simplifying it but yeah pat might, Pat might know about this. It, for some reason, is in my head that Wisconsin traded grouse to Missouri for

turkeys. Yeah, initially they, I can't remember what the exact numbers are, but they traded with Missouri, got them going. Then they got them from some other states, too, though, in Wisconsin. And they also got it was pretty cool back in the 80s they were pushing them

up in the center of Wisconsin just about 10 years into the program. And they thought that area where I live around Wapaka, Stevens Point, right across

the center of the state, they thought that was probably the extent of the native turkey range. They didn't think turkeys would ever go beyond there.

Like the turkeys had ever been beyond there. Yeah, they thought that's where they had basically pushed up naturally. You know what's funny? You ever look at a line what they think where Buffalo lived in Wisconsin? No. Yeah.

It cuts like it ascends and it like goes. It's a line that goes like at an upward angle ascending northwest through the middle of Wisconsin when they draw where Buffalo probably lived in Wisconsin. It probably wasn't a whole lot different from the turkey, what they thought. Open country. Open grasslands.

They came up in that central Wisconsin area that has, its hills aren't like yours, but they're hills. And it's a lot of oak ridges, and they thought they should do fine here, and they did. Well, then the next thing you know, you can go up where I deer hunt up in Aston County,

just south of Lake Superior. And there are decent turkey flocks up there. Because there's ag fields. Yeah, they lived way beyond what any biologist thought was possible as far as extending their range. And the biologists maybe thought that because of winter conditions and stuff as opposed to and what allowed them to be there is because of the egg fields yeah i think that we rewrote the like there's winners like there's things that win from people and things that lose from people right wolves are losers from people white-tailed deer tur Turks, crows, Canada geese, European starlings, robins.

Snow geese, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Our winners. And turkeys were big-ass winners. Turkey season's in Hawaii. I saw turkeys in Hawaii. I was hunting a different non-native at the time, but ran into that non-native.

Hunting up there. Hey, folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And, boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew. Our northern brothers get irritated. and our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join, our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there,

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welcome to the OnX club y'all why is the one that one that you don't have for the world slam? The oscillated? Why is that counted in with the North American ones? Because there's got to be other turkeys. What do you mean? No, in other countries, like regions and stuff.

Yeah? Like where? European turkeys? No, Guyana. Like those birds. Guans? Like European turkeys? No, Guyana. Like those birds. Guans? Guans aren't turkeys, Dirk. No, but actually, I shouldn't even go down.

So never mind. Yeah, you're really sure. I retract my question. Still got that good solid B over there, though. Yeah, we're going to start a book series. It's like dirt on. It'll be like, we're not going to do dirt on photography because that'd be a boring book.

Because he'd be like, here's how you take a picture. Right? Everybody would be like, yeah, that's all really good, cutting edge information you give dirt. But what I'm interested in is dirt on shit that dirt doesn't pay attention to. So like dirt pays a lot of attention to photography. And I would never read a book like dirt on rock climbing, right?

Because it'd be like all the shit you need to know about rock climbing but dirt on shit that he has passively that dirt has like kind of overheard us talking about it'd be like drunk history have you seen that no like yeah dirt i want to do dirt on linguistics and then um dirt on wildlife. It's a fox squirrel. All right. So, Doug, what happened with your evening bird? Well, so. Because herein are more lessons about turkey.

Every one of these turkeys tells a different story. So, Giannis says, I think we should go back up there, get ourselves a little nap. We'll go up there about 5 o'clock. We'll get ourselves a little nap and he said, turkey's a creature's a habit. We didn't mess up that bird in the morning, the big tom. Let's go back up there. I'll bet

he's going to come back to that area to roost. You had a feeling. Because they do not have roost fidelity. It used to be believed people used to believe they had more fidelity to their roosting area than they do. Pat, you're nodding your head. You know what I'm talking about.

I definitely know what you're talking about. Now that they put little trackers on them, little tracking GPS devices, those sons of bitches. I'm predictable. Yeah, you'll think like, oh, he's always roosting there, but it might be different turkeys are roosting there. put little trackers on them, little tracking GPS devices. Those sons of bitches. Unpredictable. Yeah, you'll think like, oh, he's always roosting there, but it might be different turkeys are roosting there. He's off. Here was my theory. So here was my theory.

One, he killed the biggest turkey ever killed on this farm. What? What? Three years ago. Or was that two years ago? Are you sure? Man, that was a big bird. All right.

It wasn't on a certified scale. It wasn't a certified scale. Okay, but it's not like he was out judging. It's like, okay, but that doesn't give him any credibility. That doesn't make me think like, oh, listen to him. It's like, that's the one that happened to show up. No, no, no, no, no. He hunted that bird and killed it and that was the one spurred monster bird okay so having killed the one spurred monster bird yeah you knew that you should listen to him three other hunters

had been hunting him that spring and i came in yeah and he could not resist the plow all right so anyway there you are and it was up in that area. Napping. Napping with Yanni. No, no, no. Napping with Yanni. There you go. So we go up there, and I think, well, I couldn't believe whether that is true or not, but my

thought was, well, the conditions are exactly the same this afternoon as they were the afternoon before. And he hadn't been muffed with. And he hadn't been muffed with. So let's, and Yanni says, let's go back up before. And he hadn't been muffed with. And he hadn't been muffed with. So let's, and Yanni says, let's go back up there. And I'm like, all right. So we go up to those pines and we cut through the middle of them and we set up within 20 yards of where I killed the one in the morning.

Yeah, but see, we just, so now you got to explain to people because you just said we hadn't muffed him. He was off doing other turkey activities. So you had been in there shooting and raising holy mayhem, but he wasn't there for that. Right. Yeah. You could go away in the morning

from your house. And have no idea that anything happened when I came back. Whatever, the mailman or the milkman or something, and then you come back later, you didn't know any of that happened. You just think it's the regular old house. the pool that you don't own got cleaned yeah so so there you are so anyway we decide to go back to the to a very similar spot and and there you can see the feathers on the ground from the one that i shot in the morning in the mid-morning after the big tom had already gone.

And so we set up fairly far apart again. And then we had the discussion about not shooting into the pine trees again. And I sat down, but Yanni said, let's make sure we get an hour's sleep. Now's a good time to get a nap. Because sometimes that'll draw them in. Well, in deer hunting it does does it seems to for me but anyway so it's so important though i gotta interrupt you your brother i was hunting with steve's brother matt ranella for opener of in montana and he forced a nap upon us in pretty shitty conditions but when he awoke he said man the world is twice as crisp and clear

as it was an hour and an hour ago and that's a very good way to put it because you just get like no and there's certain spring turkey anytime you're hunting like any hunting you do that's in proximity to the summer solstice so now you're're into May, right? It's like the days are too long. If you go caribou hunting in August and you're going to hunt from the time it gets light to the time it gets dark, you're not going to not hunt. So you're going to do that for seven days, hunt 24 hours a day for seven days. It cannot be done. You have to, a turkey hunter has to take a nap

if he's pounding it now some states are more humane like California they got a cut off you can't kill it Missouri does too I think Missouri is like 1pm Wisconsin

yeah so that's like a gesture towards humanity they probably have too many people getting too exhausted and committing crimes and suicides and what not and they realize these people are too tired so we crimes and suicides and whatnot and they realize

these people are too tired so we get up there there you are so we get up there and set up we have our little chat and everything and I couldn't fall asleep right away but I noticed that

Yanni called a little bit and then it was just quiet over there. So I kind of pulled some pine needles up and kind of this little soft thing. And I wasn't just leaning up against a tree sleeping. I laid down on the ground and curled up and went to sleep. And when I woke up, the world was crisp and new, and i had pine needles in my mouth and you know and then i sat up and yanni go i hear yanni go you know a little call over there no i think it was more like no way more subtle than that yanni's way more subtle than that

that was that was more like it yeah and oh yanni's up i better start paying attention little did i know that he had crawled over to talk to me sometime before that but saw me curled up on the ground and didn't have the heart to wake me up from my nap okay so and then we hear a gobble to the south of us and quite a ways away and he calls and we hear the gobble again and the gobble's getting closer and they kept moving across the ridge saw them for the first time in the same place we saw the jakes in the morning and they got to that point when i say they there were two gobblers but he picked up a friend well we wondered about that because in the morning we thought there might be two in the tree probably was yeah and uh and were they returning to that tree or did they come in because yanni had called them i don't know whatever he wants to do whatever he wants to do it just i'll

tell you what it was they were coming back to that roost area. It influenced their thinking. So we're all set up. Why does he not even want to respond to that? Well, that's what Yanni thought. That was the reason for going there. So I'm convinced of that as well. So I see them coming across.

And they were 200 yards away, and there wasn't any question that we had two toms coming at us and that they were big birds. And they were gobbling. One of them was gobbling, and one of them was walking, and every time then one would display, and the other one would walk ahead of him, and then he'd drop his display and then catch up with him,

and then he'd gobble, and they kept doing this thing. Good gobbling. Like not letting 10 seconds go by between gobbling. Yeah, it's interesting they do that. Like you're saying, you told me that too, that he would stop and strut, but he didn't want his buddy to get ahead. Like, I don't want you up pouring the coals to, right? Well, I'm doing all the work.

And I'm back here strutting. So it's like, I want to strut, but I don't want to strut so bad that you're like running point and like encountering all kinds of adventures and whatnot while I'm back here all puffed up. Well, cooler than heck to see them come from 200 yards like that. I think it helps. I mean, a lot of times with animals you don't want multiples because there's just more eyes, more noses, more chances of getting busted.

But when you have two gobblers coming in and they're like, not only are they like in love and sick for what you're offering them, but then they're like, I got to beat my buddy there. Yeah, it's like, I'm going over there. I'm going over there. I'm going. No, I'm going. That's what they're gobbling.

That's kind of what that sounds like. When they gobble, that's what they're actually saying. I'm going over there. No, I'm going over there. So they drop down into this ditch and come up out of there, and it's just the way they're waddling up through there. And I'm ready. And I've got a little bit of a screen in front of me.

And I'm set. And I'm thinking, well, the way this is going, they're going to come one behind the other. I'm going to shoot and possibly kill them both. So, you know, what's going to happen? And they get within about 50 yards. And they slow down. And the sun is kind of in my face and i have glasses on even though i have the net down face mask net face mask net and i've got i don't have one of those fancy uh turkey hunting shotguns with the camo on it and stuff. I've just got a old farm boy 870. Farm boy rat

shooter. And so I'm ready. I mean, I'm not moving and nothing's happening. And then they just sort of stopped. They got leery. What do you think they were suspicious of?

Because you guys had like a little... One of two things. It was either dog or the decoys did you fast i'm not saying it was dog i'm just i don't think it was it could have been anything else you felt like you did a fast movement no i felt like i was very still and i i mean when i saw them coming i got my i dug my heel into the ground got my knee up with the the shotgun on it i was ready they were going to walk right into. I'll tell you one thing a turkey hates. Movement. I don't

think I moved and I had built a little screen. I was set up pretty good. I'm not accusing you of moving. Yeah. Decoys are not foolproof. They can make them nervous. They could have seen something. Well, the white tail feathers on you.

Right. They got in close. They're like, it's a Miriam. It's that dirty son of a bitch in travel. What's he doing over here? Come all the way out here from Montana to mess with our women. So I ranged it after the fact, but I guessed at that point to be to be about 40 yards and i thought they're going to keep coming and i'm going to wait until they get right in front of me and they stopped at 40

yards and they took this began to take this little turn down into the woods and the first one like they were done they're done well no because they were doing kind of following the same route that the uh jakes had earlier of the one that i shot although i didn't know they had the jakes had earlier of the one that I shot, although I didn't know the jakes had followed that route. Well, it makes sense. The jakes were down there in the woods when we saw them, and around they came. We actually saw the jakes twice do that same move. So for a second, I thought I should wait

because they're going to come out into those decoys right in front of Yanni, and he's been, well, he's the world's most affable man and I just have this it's his turn because I shot one earlier for a second there's all that stuff went through my head in one second and then I went boom yeah I thought about him for a split second and then you disregarded those thoughts yeah well that one he'd stuck his head up so I shot and he rolled and then he got up and he ran into the was running into the pine so i shot again and then i got up and uh made a pretty quick sprint it was not the word that i would use but oh i peeked around the corner and i I thought there was an Olympic sprint going on.

Hussein Bolt was out in front, and Doug was right behind him. So I tear down to where that turkey went up into the trees. And it's a pine plantation, so there's rows, you know. And I can see that bird up there, and now he's further. So I raise the shotgun up a little bit further, and I shoot again. And I only had three shells in the gun. Trying to lob one in. I tried.

Well, I mean. I thought you guys were in a gunfight with a neighboring landowner. So, okay. I actually grabbed dirt, grabbed a pack full of shells, and started going up there. I was going to come up and be like, I'll teach you to be shooting at my friends. We need some help up here. So now I've shot three times and when i shot at the bird the three times he the third time he disappeared into that into the next strip

but i'm out of my my gun is empty so i reach into the vest and i'm trying to jam shells into the thing and you know you're i was really excited i mean it was a big bird he's you know so i jammed shells in and i'm you know realizing two things that i think this bird just got away and i may have pulled my hamstring and so and i'm starting to limp a little bit and i i look up the hill and i kind of go back and forth a little bit looking up the different pine rows and now i see this bird and he's heading for the the uh southwest corner of the of the pines you think he was thinking that I'm gonna head toward the southwest corner he was thinking I'm gonna get out of here but he was limping too so he was kind of he wasn't he was not at his best

I can tell you that and so I I made my way over a couple more rows and moved up the hill closer to where he was and it was almost up the hill closer to where he was, and it was almost up to 14 acres, and he was almost to the top of that 14 acres. And then when he stepped out, I shot him and blouch, blouch, and finished him. And when I cleaned that bird, I think I hit him all four times. Just not very well any of those times. Well, the last time I hit him good enough, but yeah. It sounds bad.

Some people might be thinking, man, all that shooting, chasing after a bird. Yeah, I'm thinking that. When it happens, you don't always make the perfect shot. And when a turkey gets back up and starts going, you have to just do whatever it takes at that point. Oh, yeah. Because they don't leave blood. What are you going to do?

Yeah, you got to go after it. Listen, if everyone was super concerned about the well-being of the turkey, you wouldn't shoot at it in the first place. So it's like at that point, yeah, they're going to let it run off, crippled up. I also had that one second when I shot, because I've never had one run off before. When he rolled, I had that second of, got it. And then,

shit, he's running into the... Dude, I'll tell you, a seasoned turkey hunter has got that second shell there. I catch myself. They go down so dramatically that I catch myself now and then not doing it. But I've hunted turkeys with a lot of other guys.

They shoot, and they're racking that second round, and they're already up and walking before the turkey's head even hits the ground. Oh, yeah. That's where I'm at right now. They storm that turkey. Yeah. Because they've lived through the eroded. And years ago, one of the first turkey hunts I went on,

we were hunting on a very steep mountainside and i pasted a turkey called in with a box call shot it it went down we're all excited because we're just trying to figure out turkey hunt actually called in a turkey turn back just in time to watch that turkey set its wings and take off never to be seen again wow well i racked another shell right and then i'm like all right from now on when i shoot turkey i'm watching the turkey well i mean that's what i did i you know i mean that's just yeah no you did everything right but yeah that's how i am i mean i touched that trigger and aside from making a bad shot and lifting your

head off the gun too quickly but yeah as soon as i know I've hit him, I mean, I'm out of that seat and running towards him. Yeah. I don't get up as quickly as you guys do, though, either. I mean, so I kind of got to get to my knee and then up. No, it depends how close. Because at the turkey, like, the Jake I shot today was close. Oh, he didn't have a chance.

Well, no, but, I mean, besides that, like, I don't need to get up and run over there. Yeah. I could, from a seated position he he's got 25 yards to cover before he's out of range right yeah so if i just yeah right i don't need to like he can stand up like he stands up i i have seconds of hit you know well and so i had that i sort of like the second of well maybe i let him go to Yanni. I had that second of, oh, I got him.

But I'm about to next shell in and I'm getting up. And it happened that fast where he's going into the tree. He's going into the pines. But I shot him again as he ran up. Had a happy ending. And it had a happy ending. Not for him, for you. For Dern. No, Doug was so impressed.

He said, from now on, if Yanni told him that we're going out naked, Doug would say, hold on a minute while I strip down. Can't we stay clothed until we get out there? He's like, when the eagle tells me to do something, I do it. Well, I did say that and which makes me a tad that i don't which makes me a tad just wonder if i want to see yanni it makes me a little jealous it makes me a little jealous um so the last turkey we have to talk about and there's a this is an unfinished no matter what we do, this is an unfinished story because me and Yanni are heading back out into the woods. Right quick here.

So who knows where this is going. But the last turkey we have to talk about. I went out this morning. So, all right. Dirt, now I'm going to try to do this quick. Me and Dirt went out last night to check out a different property down the road owned by a friend, a family friend. Not my family friend, Doug's. And we get out there, and he's like, you know what I would do

is I would go and take a look up there and have a look-see. And I even kicked around not grabbing my scatter gun. Yeah, just skip. Because we're just going to go up and try to roost one. No, I'll grab a shotgun. And we get up to a spot, and I rip out a power crow. Caw, caw. And bird gobbles not far away at all.

So we kind of moved over a little bit. Yeah. Didn't do a decoy and all that shit. Just got set up. Because I'm like, this bird's going to come. It's that time of day. And I start hen calling, and he just starts triple gobbling. All that shit just got set up. I'm like, this bird's going to come. It's that time of day. I start hen calling, and he just starts triple gobbling.

He's like shot gobbling himself. Yeah, I thought it was multiple birds. Just like gobbling his ass off. But he's got a hen with him. They're coming through the woods just out of range, going down, down, down, down. I can't figure out he will not peel off that hen. All of a sudden, the hen, it's evening. All of a sudden sudden the hen flies up into a roost tree oh i was gonna ask you it's a good reminder what time did they roost i'm very interested in that early yeah seven

four six thirty yeah oh for sure no no the sun was set but it was was... So 7.30 or something. Yeah, 7.30. She flew up in a tree, but here's the thing. I now question what I thought. I mean, absolutely she flew up in a tree, but I remember being surprised at how low the limb was that she landed on. I remember thinking, like, wow, that's weird. They roost higher than that, right? Yeah, well, I think they hop limbs sometimes.

Yeah, so I caught, they get down, and he's gobbling his face off, and he's full strut down in the woods on a steep slope, which is not, like, a normal, like, strut area. And she flies up to a limb, a dead snag, and he's on the ground. And I'm thinking, and then I'm wondering, like, is it possible to call a gobbler away from a hen up in a tree? And he just carries on and gobbles and gobbles and gobbles and gobbles and gobbles, and all of a sudden he just goes quiet.

And by the time it's dusky, he goes quiet, and then I hear a loud branch snap. And I felt, oh, he jumped into his tree. He's up there too, and they're just going to work their way up into that roost so we belly crawl out of there and then we come back in the pre-dawn darkness and get set up not anywhere near them but like up on the little ridge top where they might go to get set up morning comes on start scratching out a couple uh hen calls and the the the roost the the roosting birds that were gobbling were not gobbling from that tree no so i don't know

if when we belly crawled out of there they we bumped them well but there was other uh other gobblers there was other gobblers. There was four gobblers. This morning. Yeah, but no one was gobbling from that tree, from that area. But could have they, like you said, you had mentioned maybe he actually peeled out that night. That's what I think. Now when I look at it, I think she jumped up in that limb,

and then there was enough disturbance with us calling, him carrying on, us belly crawling out of there. I think they still had enough daylight. I think they moved. I think they went down and hopped into a different roost tree further down the hill. Or they were just absolutely dead silent this morning. We're calling this morning

and we're hearing gobbling and a finchie. We can tell they kind of flew down and then all of a sudden, some guy shoots right by us. So close that I could hear his bird flopping around on the ground. We left. Come back here and get Doug. He's running around doing farm chore activities. Get him.

Go up the hill. Stretch out his hamstring. Stretch out his hamstring. He wants to stretch his hamstring. Walk over to a neighboring property. Blow a power crow. In my ear. In Doug's ear.

Doug shot gobbles. A turkey. Another turkey shot gobbles. Get all set up. Start scratching out some hen calls. And he doesn't show up. But a giant pack of jakes shows up. That's hysterical.

Like a bunch of them. And they come running in wanting to slaughter my decoy and i shot one but it's an incomplete story because i wish i had more turkey permits because i have more ideas than there are tags left but yanni i'll say it publicly you can come back i'd like to have you come back, you know, because I don't want you to be incomplete in your turkey hunting here. I will come back. As long as Johnny comes back with you. That's the only condition.

Well, Doug. Hey, man, you're still only at a B. Yeah, Dirt. Yesterday, Dirt, a chipmunk comes running along. No, no, no. A chipmunk comes running along, and Dirt's like, there's a squirrel. I saw a flash. And it hops up a new tree. And I'm like, oh, it's a chipmunk goes run along and Dirt's like there's a squirrel. I saw a flash. And it hops up a new tree and I'm like oh it's Chipmunk.

And Dirt's like and then Dirt spreads his hands out like two feet apart and goes no what I saw coming was this long. And I'm like but where is it now because Dirt it's five feet from me. Garrett recently had LASIK

and I'm wondering. Maybe I asked for some money back. Well, his eyes just haven't adjusted. Thank you, Yanni. That's what I've been saying. He wouldn't give up on it. I'm like, Dirt, that's a chipmunk. He's like, no, it must have been two.

It must have been a chipmunk and a squirrel come running right down next to you. Next to you. Chipmunk was just hanging on to that squirrel's tail. They're farm wrestling. And he's like, and now only the chipmunk's here and you didn't see what I saw. And won't give it up. I gave it up, though, fairly quick after that.

I did try. It was like three tries before you finally gave it up. That's true. Well, one more condition would be that dirt came along with you. Or was allowed to come along. Well, don't make it too tricky for me to ever fulfill the situation. I can't just come out here with my kids. Well, yeah, you can come out here with your kids, too.

I was on the phone with my boy this morning. He'll be seven in a couple days here. And I was describing to him the kind of, he says, was it in the woods or in the field days here. And I was describing to him the kind of, he says, was it in the woods or in the field? Ooh. And I said, well, we're in an area that's sort of mixed woodlots and farmland. And he goes, is it like where we hunted with Doug?

And I said, it is Doug's. Yeah. So. So he remembers. Oh, I just like that he's asking, like, those are savvy questions. No, it is. Yeah. No, he's a hunter. He's going to, those are savvy questions. No, it is, yeah.

No, he's a hunter. He's going to be a hunter, man. He's real curious about animals. Very, very curious about animals. Now, Yanni, we're going to go out in the woods. I have a hunt plan. You have your own hunt plan. Yeah, I think we are in agreeance.

Agreeance? Is that a word? Durkin, is that a word? No, I think we are in agreeance. Agreance? Is that a word? Durkin, is that a word? No. Agreement. I think we're in agreement. I like it. There's two kinds.

Are you familiar with that there's a descriptive approach to language and a prescriptive approach to language? So some dictionaries are descriptive in nature, that they want to language. So, some dictionaries are descriptive in nature that they want to capture. Oh, Yanni just pulled it up. What website?

I just didn't have the confidence. Yeah. Nice. Dictionary.com. Pull it up at a better dictionary. No,

go to Webster's.com. Pull it up on Webster's.com. So, Yanni just pulled it up on what, this is perfect because it tells what I'm saying. Yanni just pulled it up on what would be known as a descriptive dictionary. So a descriptive dictionary is like, our job is to tell you how to use the language.

Our job is to capture how the language is used. A prescriptive dictionary is telling you how to use the language. Interesting. So agreeance is like someone might say i feel that it was a successful it was a successful use of the language we're not we're not in agreeance everyone knew what he was talking about it worked he got his point across that's what language is here for is to facilitate facilitate communication. So even though we may have thought it was correct. But other people would be like, it's like ain't, right?

Like I teach my kids, I'm like, use ain't. Just use it. And my wife has a prescriptive approach, and she's like, just try to shy away from ain't. Like don't go out of your, contrary to what your father's telling you, don't go out of your like contrary to what your father's telling you don't go out of your way to say ain't but i like to i like that tension in the language of of um good word choice and

shitty word choice all rolled in together because it creates the same tension that you get when you have a modern home with with antlers in it. Wow. That's interesting. Way to bring that around. Yeah. Talk about full circle. Yeah. And consistency. Yeah. And I think you do that in your writing also.

You know, when I think about it. A little tension. Well, yeah. So I... What do I like about Steve Rinello's writing? My beloved friend Doug, with whom I've passed many an autumn day, is such a frickin'...

Right? I want to do my concluder first. If you like turkeys and you like turkey hunting and you're curious about turkeys, you should go and join and lend your support to the National Wild Turkey Federation. Yeah. Some people might be like

oh yeah but they already did all the work because there's turkeys everywhere but it's like it's not like we're in the good old days of turkeys right now but there's no real reason to think when you look at the ebb and flow if there's no reason to think that we're going to remain in the good old days of turkeys there's gonna be disease issues habitat issues legal issues right? Like attacks on the very culture of hunting access issues like do you have a way to get on the land there sure is turkeys everywhere if you can't get on the ground to hunt them

you got a problem. I would I am a member of National Wild Turkey Federation. Yeah, I think right now they have a thing going you already are a member they have a thing going. You already are a member. They have a thing called Turkey Karma going, I think. For like $10, you can buy like a Turkey Karma coin,

and you get to put it on your Instagram account or something. But it's just, you know, we'll actually. Just showing you're kicking a little money for Turks. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of guys. If all of us did that, $10 this spring, you know. No, if you're some guy and you've been out hunting turkeys for the last 10 years and haven't pitched in a dime, pay up, man.

Because the reason you're hunting turkeys, most places, unless you live in the swamps of Alabama or South Carolina or something, if you're hunting turkeys right now, you're hunting turkeys because of that organization. And damn sure, if you're hunting turkeys in one of the many many states never had turkeys if you're hunting turkeys in one of the eight states that now has a turkey season that historically had no turkeys pay up that's my thought doug well i agree with that uh but if you hunt or live in the Casanova area. Don't hunt turkeys.

No, hunt turkeys. And support our little local organization. Oh, Caz Turkey Busters. The Caz Turkey Busters. A bunch of good friends were a part of that. And we do all kinds of good stuff in the area. Trying to help Turks out. Not just Turks, but just kind of helping wildlife.

And we buy and stock walleyes and stuff in the in the lake in casanova do good things for the community and support uh landowners and turkeys and whatnot and there are members who belong both the cas turkey busters and to the national wild turkey federation but so if you're in k if you're one of the three people in the casanova area i think we've got like up to half a dozen members i mean that's a it's actually a fairly good that's like 50 of the town and they're all there no there it's it's a really nice group of people some from uh just folks outside of casanova yeah outside of casanova. I would join a group called the Casanova Turkey Busters. Well, I just want to say a lot of good friends and really good times with those guys.

Can you give me a for instance of what is a thing that the Cas Turkey Busters, what would be a thing that they've done? For turkeys? Yeah. Food plot installations specific to turkeys. Okay. You know, corn and sorghum and that sort of stuff. And encouraging landowners by, we have a party every summer,

but encouraging landowners to allow people to access their property, you know, with permission. And if that's happening, then we invite them to this party. We have a really nice party every summer for the local landowners. That's nice. Yeah, it is. Kaz Turkey Busters. It's a heck of a group of people, yeah.

If you live in Reno, join up. Pat? 30 bucks stuffed on the wall. And here's what he has to say for including thought. And two turkeys and two antelope or two pronghorns. The thing I think is coolest about turkey hunting, and we did it today again, was it's a low-tension hunt compared to deer hunting.

Deer hunting tends to be such a... Oh, I don't know who you've been hunting low attention yeah i said no i boil with rage oh yeah well no i'm with you i'm tracking it's i'm tracking it's it's a fun thing that what hurts me a little bit is i think i never realized how important it was to have a good good hunting partner with turkey hunting because i used used to always go with my daughter Leah when she was around from the time she was about 10 years old when she couldn't hunt to the time she went off to the Navy, which was like 12 years later. Always had this good little partner and she had great, she has great hearing. And my hearing is really off.

My left ear is not very good. My right ear is okay. From shooting guns with no hearing potential. Shooting guns, yeah. And so it was really cool to always have this little guide with me almost and then um when she went off and left and left the navy my interest in turkey hunting just really wasn't all that all that strong you lost your body yeah and i think i don't i didn't have that problem with deer hunting or elk hunting i still love it yeah i can go by

myself all the time not think twice about it. With Yanni, the last day and a half, it was really cool to be around someone that has good, sharp hearing, good, sharp... My eyesight's pretty good, but it reminded me how much fun it was to hear that gobble.

You got a taste of the eagle, man. Yeah. I was wondering if your daughter would think that she had a good hunting partner. I actually addressed that in my father of the bride speech. Oh, yeah. That she took one for the team. Yeah, yeah. Leah was great that way.

Talk about her like she's dead. No. Well, when a kid goes out. She's dead to you. No. She joined the Navy and got married. She married a non-hunter, I got married she married the non-hunter right there

she married the non-hunter she moved away and no I shouldn't talk that way that way but it is the sentimental side of me

that misses that and and I get you know she'll come back for deer hunting because that's still probably her favorite thing to do but she

she only has so much time left to do things you know she has she has to work for a living and so she doesn't get to come back for the spring hunt but like Janice and I were walking around today and you think but she only has so much time left to do things. She has to work for a living. And so she doesn't get to come back for the spring hunt. But like, yeah, us and I were walking around today and think, what a wonderful time to be in the woods. Oh, yeah.

Oh, my God, it's beautiful around here, man. Yeah. Dude, this is like, if I had a job to paint butter packages and shit like that, I would just come out here. Or paint, like someone said, hey, man, paint a painting for the front of a milk jug i'd come out here and paint this area this time of year yeah beautiful it's not like when you come here and the snow is blowing sideways and you can't

get this i can't get the screen door open yeah but like right now it's like holy shit gorgeous man yeah yeah you are deer hunting it's always this kind of this endurance element there that you just have to endure this. It's like these very like, these like valleys and all these openings and pastures and like woodlots. It's just beautiful. Yeah. Big picturesque barns everywhere. Right now in the trees, if you took away the greenness of the meadows, the canopy is almost as colorful as it is in the fall. Yeah.

I mean, there's reds and oranges, all kinds of greens. Dude, it's gorgeous around here, man. It makes where I'm from look, like, ugly. And I thought, you know, it's a good-looking area, but, man. I mean, in Michigan, where you're from. Yeah, but what you guys have going for you is is the topography yeah you have that you have like discernible valleys and stuff the driftless area yeah so that was michael clean thought and it's fun to be here again well please come back dirt

what's your concluder i want to get out i'm not letting you go last because I'm punishing you about the chipmunk squirrel thing. I won't make that mistake again. And I do want a turkey hunt now. I don't know if this season because we're going to be away for work again. But I do want a turkey hunt. And I want to take either a Jake or a Tom. What was his name? Edward?

I'm going to kill Edward. No. That was your conclusion? That's your conclusion? I already said it in the book for him. You're fired up. I say when we get done with our next shoot, we'll have four days left in Montana turkey season. Take dirt out, man.

No, but I was telling you, and you guys are going to ostracize me for this. It's boating season. Take dirt out, man. No, but I was telling you, and you guys are going to ostracize me for this. It's boating season. All the rivers are swelled up and rapid-y. That's the other reason I'm not letting dirt go last. Because last year, dirt, like, it's like elk season. So I give dirt a rifle, give him a bunch of ammunition. I'm like, here you go, dirt.

I love the rifle. I'm like, here, go get him, dirt. Because he had some time off. Like two days. Elk season opens up, and it's not like dirt couldn't go into the rifle. I'm like, here, go get him, Dirt. Because he had some time off. Like two days. So elk season opens up, and it's not like Dirt couldn't go into the mountains. Dirt goes into the mountains during elk season into elk country to go ice climb. Because it was a unique. And I'm like, what the?

Yeah, he's like, oh, it's just a once-in-a-lifetime thing. We're at this little icy area. So he's up like walking up to ice climb up in the mountains passing by and bullshitting with elk hunters i'm like how could you do that i'm spoiled i get to do a lot of you know observation of the beauty of hunting for work so when i'm off work we should maybe cut him off on the uh the free teat of milk or meat that comes out of the meat eater shoots. Yeah, because dirt always gets a cut of the meat.

Because I pack and help with it. His old lady's been probably killing more stuff the last couple years than he has, so he's got meat at home. He doesn't have to go hunting. Yeah, dirt's old lady went out and shot a buck all by herself in the freezing cold. And what's the weird part about that is that was one of the rare days

when Dirt actually went hunting, but he went hunting with other people elsewhere. Well, not hunted with... So his girlfriend, who'd never hunted before, is out hunting by herself while Dirt's off hunting with other guys in another spot, and she kills a buck. Well, I got a buck that same day. Yeah, I should have been with her. She had to bring a book with her to figure out how to gut it. Pictures of your book no we had we had went together a handful of times that year you'd already gone together yeah all right and we had a blast but all right yeah i know what you're

concluding real quick another reason to pass on the jake early in the hunt is that Lenny Longbeard, a.k.a. Rope Draggers, a.k.a. Tommy, a.k.a. Boss Tom, has a much higher... Lenny Rope Draggers. Oh, Lenny Longbeard. Lenny Longbeard. Yeah, that's good.

Yeah. Ronnie Rope Draggers. We were learning about alliteration the other day with the kids. Anyways. That would be a good book. Dirt on Alliteration. So I have a series. We weighed some birds this week, right?

We should have weighed the processed like the take home meat but you know doug's jake is a power jake comes in at 15 and a half both your birds are 25 25 plus this was sub 25 yeah you're talking about 10 more pounds on there. The feathers don't weigh that much. No, no. It's a lot more meat. Yeah. Tough meat.

My brother, Danny. I'm just talking about my brother. Listen. I know. Don't shoot the messenger. My brother, Danny, targets Jake's because he thinks the meat's better. Yeah. Go ahead.

I think if you prepare it right, I think you'd have a hard time telling personally. But we did. That Jake meat came off the smoker. And you could just gnaw into that thigh like it was a chicken. So go ahead with your concluding thought. Put that in your concluding thought. That Jake was brined for 24 hours, then smoked on low heat for three plus hours. Very well prepared.

Might have something to do with the way it ate. Eh. My family and I did one breast off of a mature gobbler the other day, turkey nugget style. And we had leftovers. And we were, it was the first turkey nuggets. Family of four, one turkey breast. Yeah.

And we were, you know, it was the first turkey nuggets of the year. People were excited. I mean, the kids were eating them right out of the fryer. Then we sat down, had dinner. And, like, I was sick, you know, from eating too many. And we had leftovers. Yeah. Didn't we just have, we only used half a breast for the schnitzel.

Yeah, and that was five. We used one breast. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Well, half, yeah, when I say half, I mean one breast. That is the, I think of all turkey dishes, schnitzel with panko and lemons, and then a little potato salad, vinegary potato salad. Just like the- Coleslaw or potato salad?

Potato salad, because that's what those mugs and... I used to go to an Austrian restaurant and I would get the Wiener... There's some kind of schnitzel.

They schnitzeled every damn thing they got their hands on over there. And they would schnitzel out... I don't know what... Pork?

Whatever those boys like to schnitzelize. They would schnitzel it and serve it with the potato salad. So that's what I started doing with my turks. And holy mackerel. Is that good?

It is. All right, Yanni, we got to get back in the woods. That's a wrap. Thanks for listening. You never know what happened. Blouch! you hey folks exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada.

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