The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 130: Packing Gear

Episode Date: August 20, 2018

Steven Rinella talks with Kurt Racicot of Stone Glacier, along with Janis Putelis of the MeatEater crew. Subjects Discussed: the unique nature of Alaskan bears; the PTSD-inducing capabilities of Killer whales; sea cucumbers, abalone, scallops, and other Alaskan ocean grub worth owning a cabin for; how to pack for a long backcountry hunt, and how to get your head straight; proof that cotton kills; suffering; water purification preferences; cold supper; how big is your backpack?; 13 bullets revisited; and more. Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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our fish shack, like what's the thing you're most dying to know like if you could ask me one thing about it what would you ask me i'm on the spot here you didn't give me any heads up earlier and i've already but i already know your first question your first question was was there a lot of uh bears around yeah and you know when i asked you that i was actually asking more just general like if you guys were out and about fishing where you've seen a lot of bears, but you answered yes, there's a shitload, and then you went in to tell me about the stories

about how they were crawling underneath the shack to come towards you as you were flaying fish. Yeah, beating off bears with a stick. Well, beating them off with rocks and slingshots. Black bears. But it sounded like nothing got so aggressive that they actually like char nothing aggressive or pop their teeth at you nothing aggressive just being like uh you fellas are cleaning fish that's very interesting to me i don't care that you're standing there. I think I'll come and have some.

Like a dog, like a stray dog, you know, that someone fed, even though we didn't feed them. All the time, all times of day. And it was funny too, it was really hot. Like we've had our place for, you know, 14, 15 years and we've always had enough water in the creek to fill our pen stock, you know, like we divert water out a couple hundred feet above our shack. We divert water out of a creek into a tank, right? And then we run a hose off that and it gives you water pressure. In 14 years, never a problem. That creek's too dry right now to, too dry right now to pull water. Why was I talking about that?

Oh, so damn hot and dry. Yeah. And it was funny because like when you're bear hunting in the spring and you get like an 80 degree day and it's just blazing sun, you feel like not going to happen.

Like might as well go take a nap. Sure. These bears. They're only going to pop out at dusk. They're just out. Black hide, black hair, out wandering around in that heat.

Heat waves coming off their back, man. In the sun. Yeah. Out feeding on bee try. Or walking around around you know checking out the generator shed sniffing around just around like stray dogs yeah and it was making me nervous because i know that they're you know adults i don't care but having my two little kids two of my little kids up there and my little kids are always digging around the creek they're not looking what they're doing. They're just looking for sculpins and these little eels and crabs.

Yeah, if a bear takes a bite out of Ron Bame, it's kind of like, yeah, whatever. Sure, man. He'll be like, it's good to know him. You know, he had a good run. But a young child like that, it was making me nervous because it's like not being able to anticipate what they're going to, how they might perceive a child. You know, what they think of when they see a child. What's funny too is watching the deer with little fawns, you know, fawns still got some spots on them feeding 20, 30 yards from those bears.

Really? It's like those bears up there. I think they have so much food normally that they're not like normal bears they're not as opportunistic as normal bears it's like Rocky Mountain bears and so much food in the form of all the mussels and just everything that lives

at the edge of the marine fish, shellfish and beach rye it's like you watch them just walk down the beach they just flip over rocks and pick up all the crabs that come out and then they got lush expanses of beach rye that's always there it never dries up and then they got the salmon runs so it's like a bear i think he sees stuff that a normal bear would be all over and uh they don't do it and right now is when the salmon runs start so i think a lot of

those bears are down. We have a run in our creek, right? Silvers and pinks. Well, the creek next to us. And I think now they're just down waiting for it to happen. It hasn't happened yet, but they're lurking around the area. And you start cleaning fish. And there used to be an all... You've seen them up there fighting for the premier spots.

Oh, it's some of the wildest shit I've ever seen. I'm trying to think. Was it dark the first time we were there? And it was all that commotion. We started shining lights and realized there was like four bears. This creek is, you know, it would take you three strides and you're across it, you know. But there's one major pool that holds all these pinks before they get into the lake. They're backed up by a beaver dam yeah and uh yeah we could hear the splash in and we'd kind of shine a light down there i don't know why we were we were filming

or something over there after dark and uh you could see a bear but then finally we got closer and looked and well sure another is like one bear in the water and three bears on the bank kind of like waiting their turn to you know get in and get their own sand to get them out from the hole in another place there's another creek we fish salmon at and they get competitive over the shallow so you have like the estuary which floods and ebbs with the tides but there's this one shallow gravel like kind of your first riffle. And so it's all those fresh fish. And it's the first place, the first obstacle where they got to come out and have their back out of the water.

Right. And scurry into the next hole. And they sit there and fight and take turns and have skirmishes over who gets to stand in that riffle. But yeah, they don't do, you know, I don't know. I don't know if they, they never have growled, snapped their teeth. But we saw that one clacking his teeth one time

in there at us. I was with you. Well, dirt or something was in there. Oh, he was there in there by himself. Yeah. Yeah.

It was clacking his teeth at him and whatnot. So that's your main question you'd have for me my next question we're gonna have to just pause for a second divulge it i did want to ask him yeah and i'll say it's plenty of times you've talked about where it is but i'll tell you in greater detail okay we're back on good so where is fish camp? It's on Prince of Wales Island. Okay. Which is a big ass island. Yep. It's,

I never like totally fact check this, but it's half the size. I think it's half the size of the big island in Hawaii. So it's half the square miles of Hawaii, but has twice the shoreline. Wow. It's a mess. Like a lot of the places you're at, you can't tell if you're on the main island

or on a little island. You know what I mean? Just lots of little peninsulas and coves. Just fjords and inlets and little islands. Yeah. And so you said you had pinks and silvers? In our creek. In the creek right by your place.

So all the creeks around us, like in our sort of our zone, which is basically what you can hit in a skiff without killing yourself, is like one, two, I don't know, seven, eight creeks. And they all have some variation on pinks, chums, silvers. And then there's one that has steelhead in the spring. We've never messed with them. No king runs there, though. There's kings in the area all the time, resident kings,

but they're not running our rivers. Okay. And then we get after halibut pretty hard, and a host of other not quite incidentals, but things that we'll target. Can you still fish crab down there? Crab? I mean, is that everything?

Dungeness? Yeah. Yeah, very good. Dungeness is good, and shrimping is very good. target can you still fish crab down there i mean is everything dungeon yeah yeah yeah dungeon s is good and shrimping is very good we shrimp a lot we always have shrimp pots out the crab fishing so good that steve would be like oh i think we've had enough i'm like bro you must have eaten too many crabs in your day because i say load up let's keep going yeah take up a lot of space though the thing with like flying home with crabs like yeah you fill a fish box full of crab and it's just yeah it's like you either fly home

the knuckles which we'll do or um you pick it right so this time we had someone who uh i didn't even go on the i didn't i didn't go on the crab run but they went on a crab run and got some crab and picked it all so i brought home a a couple little bags full of picked crab. And then octopus and sea cucumber. We'll dive for that. We dove. Oh, you know what's crazy? This is the last thing I want to say about this, then we'll talk about what we're going to talk about.

This is kind of the trippiest thing I've ever seen. My kids got PTSD from it. So we're out. My buddy Dan Bogan is driving our skiff. And I got my two little kids in there. Dan Bogan's wife's in there, Louisa. And me and my brother Matt are out. And it was a negative low tide.

So like a negative one low tide. And we were going out to pick sea cucumbers and look for rock scallops. And there's this little islet, like this little teeny island out in this big, this big, like there's this, this, the mouth of a large arm that comes off of this very large bay. And there's a little islet out in the middle of this thing, kind of isolated. And you look for the scallops, you want to try to find places that are wave battered

and there's a lot of movement of the water there. So we pull up and jump out there and start nosing around looking for cucumbers and scallops. And all of a sudden I hear screaming from the boat. And he's two, no, it's three killer whales. My kids call them orcas. That's like the PC thing to call killer whales, an orca. Three killer whales are on my brother, checking him out. Like thinking he's a seal.

Oh, and he's in the water. Yeah, in the water in a wetsuit. And they pass in front of the boat and came up and turned away when they're eight feet away from his fins. He never knew they were there. I could hear people screaming from the boat. And I look up and it's just dorsal fins. I can see Matt's snorkel in his back.

And behind him is just dorsal fins. Scared the shit. I mean, my daughter's crying. I want to go back to the cabin. And even when we were flying, you know, even when we flew out of there, you know, you get in there on a float plane. Even when we flew out of there, she was still looking down, asking if those whales are down they're gonna bother us when we're up in the plane man it was just and i've never saw him never saw him no wasn't aware of there he was like you know the visibility's not great you get it's like wavy

looking the other direction and they just tuned in on the noise of us in the water. But just, you know, checked him out, checking out, see if he's a seal or whatever. Dude, I feel. Not a seal and didn't, you know. I feel for your kids because we were just in those two skiffs, was it two years ago in the fall? We're rolling out going deer hunting, and we see them off in the distance, so we just, you know, cut the engines and roll up on them. And they happen to be just kind of coming towards us. And I mean, they cut our bow by 10 to 20 feet, you know, the closest one. And there was probably five or six being that close

to those animals. And just knowing the things that are packed into my head growing up about, you know, in air quotes, the killer whale, like it got my heart racing for sure. Like that's a giant, giant thing that, you know, everyone has seen some sort of clip or video of it messing with people. Right. I thought about not getting back in the water, but then I was like, I was like, is that the kind of person I really want to be? And so I forced myself, we stayed together because we had hit this rock and we each were going to go

one way and meet on the other side of this island. And we decided to just do it side by side, whatever protection that gives you. But I thought about not getting in the water and I'm like, am I really going to live my life this way? And then got back in there and just was not enjoying myself.

I was not enjoying myself, man. Oh, yeah. Wow. But we picked a big pile of cukes. Clean them all up. Then how do you cook those? See cucumbers? Yeah.

You cut the ends off. You know what they look like, right? Yeah. Yeah. You cut the ends off. Then you take a knife and open it. So you're basically cutting the ends off, making a cylinder, right? Yeah.

And you're opening the cylinder up, and you flatten it out, and then take a putty knife, and there's five big clams. Get all the guts out first. Yeah, there's watery guts. Or they'll expel their gut, too, on their nerves. They can expel their gut and regenerate. So you open them up and take a putty knife and grab it with a pair of fish cleaning pliers,

like catfish skinning pliers, and take that putty knife and just, and you scrape those five big clam strips off in a swipe. Then just cook them up like clams? Yeah. It's better than clam. Really? Well, it's arguably better than clam strips.

And one cucumber yields, one sea cucumber yields more meat than anything this side of a geoduck. And you could, there's no limit on them. There's no close season, no limit on them. No one's out. There's commercial guys that do it for the export markets, but it's not like Joe Blow American is not out picking sea cucumbers. No. And all the time I lived in Alaska, I never sat down to a sea cucumber. Telling you what though, you eat one, you're going to start.

Everyone is like, once you see what's inside, it's like, no shit. And then people would get real interested in them. But we were up there for years before it occurred to us. I met an emergency room doctor from California who's got a shack. It might as well be a million miles away from my place because he can't get there in a skiff, but he's got a shack not far from our shack. And he goes out there, and his primary purpose when he's up there is diving. Abalone.

Depends on who he's with because only a resident can pick abalones but he's got bodies up there so abalone scallop cucumbers you can die for crab that's what he does he has it for that purpose and i was like really you eat those and then we went out and started getting them and now i'm a true believer you just gotta get over the way that it looks you know do that yeah it's like octopus i'll cook you some up man now that we're neighbors i'm in or now that we live in the same town yeah starting in one week i'll pick you some oh who i'm talking to is uh kurt roscoe he's been on the show before long ago yep thanks for having meoted listeners will know because we did,

what did we call that episode? The impossible hunt. I think so. Yeah. About Kurt's exploits. Can you break down just to remind people, can you break down the unlimited, the unlimited sheep hunts?

Yeah. Yeah. I know we had a lot more facts and figures when we talked about it. Yeah. Just like basically how it goes. Basically you go out there wandering around around, and don't see anything. Yeah. But you can be a sheep one. Anybody can be a sheep one.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah, there are several districts in the state of Montana, and they're all in the same general area, and they have a limit in each unit, but unlimited people can put in for those tags and can buy those tags. So, you know, it's one of the few places where anybody from anywhere can just buy a sheep tag

and go sheep hunting. As a matter of fact, I'm not aware of another place that you can do that. So, you know, non-resident, non-resident alien, doesn't matter. And so what they do is they typically open it up on September 15th and it will be open until the end of rifle season, which is typically, you know, the third week in November. And it's open for any weapon, rifle or archery. And once the limit is, once the quota, I should say, is met in each unit, then it closes. So most of the units hover in around between two and three sheep. I think most of them are at two this year.

And, you know, it's as simple as that. It just gives an opportunity to anybody who wants to go. And sometimes the quota never gets met. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, historically, we had a little bit more of these facts before, but about half of the units don't close on a given year. But there's also a buffer on each side. So once the quota is met, it will close in usually 48 hours. And so sometimes in a unit, one extra ram will be taken during that.

But generally speaking,'s you know from those units you're looking probably six eight sheep in a year total i gotta follow up because i don't think we hit this last time we chatted with you but um any idea how many are killed with archery equipment not very many um do you even know anybody that's that crazy I do I do um I I know of uh I know second hand of a guy who shot one just a couple of years ago um out of out of one of the units uh it wasn't the Beartooth units um and then um there I do know of one other guy that shot one in the Beartooths unit. That's the only one that I know of personally that was shot in the Beartooths. But that was back in the late 60s.

And yeah, it was quite a feat. Quite a feat. Have you ever been tempted to try it with a bow? No, no, not at all. No, I don't know. There's so many challenges when you go into something like that. I just don't feel that it needs that extra level at this point. Yeah, I'm with you.

Yeah, yeah. And you've done it successfully once? Once, yeah. Seven years ago, right? Seven years ago, yeah. Well, technically eight, I guess. But yeah, there's a seven-year wait. So you did it successfully seven years ago

and you had to wait that long and now you can try again? Yep. And you're going for 15 days by yourself this year? Yeah, yeah. 14 or 15 days? Yeah, somewhere around there. Yeah.

And no... I'm running out of food, I guess. Here's a segue. So we're going to talk about how to pack and like, yeah, basically how to pack in a in a like yeah basically how to pack how to pack and approach deep kind of wilderness hunting situations um and you're going for that many days 14 or 15 days yep and you won't you won't go back to your truck at all no no i'm not planning on it um yeah no i mean i'm that's that's what I'm packing to do. That's what I did last time.

How many pounds will you have? I don't know what the total will be. Um, I was, you know, I was just, I'm starting to get all my stuff together right now. And so, you know, my, my pack weights right about 26 pounds before food. So, you know, that's all of your standard gear, your camp gear, glass, tripod, doesn't include a rifle. And then, you know, I'm hovering between 1.2 and 1.4 pounds of food a day. So, you know, I'm going to be north of 20 pounds on food. And so, you know, for that amount of time you're going yeah you're going to be in that 50 pound range which I would be happy with dude 50 pounds for that many days yeah that sounds extremely light extremely light yeah like you're foregoing a lot of loot well yeah you know maybe some of you I mean you're not taking a pillow and you're not taking camp shoes.

You're not taking some of the creature comforts that maybe are nice to have when you're within a day of the truck. Elk hunting is a little bit different because you know you're going to be making more than one trip out. So, you know, when I'm going. I don't understand. What's that have to do with how much you want to carry in? Well, if you, if you already know, you know, with an elk that I'm going to have multiple trips out, taking a little bit of extra gear and, you know,

on each, if you have three trips out and you want to take an extra five pounds on each one to go in a little bit heavier is all right. Oh, I get what you're saying. But when you're coming out and you're trying to come out in one load with a sheep. By by yourself you know there's some limitations because there you're adding 100 plus pounds yeah yeah you know it's uh um it doesn't end up quite being that but it is it is pretty heavy in montana because the regs you have to take you can't cape

out the head you can't cap the skull you have to take, you can't cape out the head, you can't cap the skull. You have to take, you know, the whole head and cape. You have to take the cape out on the head? Yeah. Interesting. And it dictates exactly where you can sever the skull from the spine? Yeah. I would have to look at that again, but it says, you know,

well, the last time it did, yeah it did yet you know you can take it right behind the head right at the right at the base of the spine and um yeah but everything else has to stay intact interesting you mentioned camp shoes yeah um my brother when he's hunting doll sheep in alaska he likes to bring uh bring... He's always messing around with different footwear things. For a while, he was doing plastic boots. Oh, is he off that? Because last time we hunted with him, that was his first year in plastics. Well, I think he's not running plastics now.

He liked plastics because he could cross creeks and take the piece out. But man, squeaky sons of bitches. I hunted with him in those plastic things. Yeah, they can be. He likes plastic boots. But you got to understand, man, to the listener, some areas hunting doll sheep, it's just rock. It's just rock.

There's no trail at all. Everything's off trail. Everything's off trail. Everything's off trail. Everything's rock. There's no sort of sweet kind of walking places. So it's not that much of a detriment to run plastic boots. But he is big on having his boots and a pair of sneakers. Yeah.

And then I got me a pair of those down booties, those down camp booties my god are those nice to have but like this year won't be hunting doll sheep in not even a month two weeks two weeks by the time you listen to this we'll probably be in the field i won't i won't be bringing my down my special down booties so do they have souls on the bottom so you can get out and walk around no you can't really get out and walk around they got yeah they got a sole on the bottom but but man we're going to the latrine you know that's all that night it's so nice they'll take them damn boots off

it is but you'll just be running boots no extra footwear no no i don't but i i use plastic boots too so you know you have the so you wear plastics hunting down here? Mm-hmm. Really? I do a lot, yeah. Whose plastic boots? I wear Scarpa's. Yeah, I wear the Scarpa Omegas. They quit making them, which was a total bummer,

but I hold a couple of pair. But they're one of those things that I've suggested them to several friends that have gone on sheep hunts. And it's a 50-50 whether or not they fix. They're one of those things that I've suggested them to several friends that have gone on sheep hunts. And, you know, it's a 50-50 whether or not they fit. Because you're not going to break them in. You know, it's not like a leather boot where you just wear it more and it's going to fit. And especially the Scarpo Omegas, they're a real dense liner. So there isn't much to move around, you know, to form to your foot.

Yeah, I mean, it's almost like a ski boot. Yeah, they are. They are. But, you know, to form to your foot. So they don't fit. It's almost like a ski boot. Yeah, they are. They are. But, you know, they're real light. They never get wet. I don't get blisters in them. They're still the most comfortable boots that I have. So I wear them a lot.

When you do finally hit the trail, though, and you've got like just five miles of trail to rip, it almost – I know. It'd be like you'd just be so bummed of trail to rip don't it almost i know it'd be like you'd be so bummed you had them yeah it feels so awkward because you're kind of like you know because you don't bring crampons down here do you um typically no uh you know it kind of depends on on some of the you know some of the area or it depends on if there's snow or ice on the ground but you know some of the some of the smaller crampons i have i have a pair of crampons that i have cut down they're only three quarter

inches tall you know kind of like the i'm not going to pronounce it right but catala catahoula yeah catula catula there you go you know they make the slip-on right base type uh those are really nice when it's slick. More from a safety standpoint than anything. But depending, there's still, especially on a sheep hunt, something down in the Beartooths, there's a lot of steep, nasty country in there. And it's nice to have a little bit more foot protection.

Yeah, man. Every year, I remember a couple years ago in Alaska, two guys died falling mountain goat hunting. Yeah. There's just not that many guys mountain goat hunting. No, no. Especially in those places that have big exposure. It's not necessarily that you're climbing vertical ice

or that you really need them. You're just trying to protect yourself from slipping. And there's a lot of times, especially in September, you can get yourself into a place when it's dry and all of a sudden there's a skiff of snow and it can be flat treacherous trying to get out. So yeah, it just kind of depends on the area, but sometimes I'll carry them down here. So when you're running those and at nighttime when you're just kicking around camp, do you just walk around in the liners?

Yeah, if it's dry, I will. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. You said you never get wet. We're on these plastic boots for a while, but one last question on it. You said you never get wet, but do you sweat enough in them sometimes

that you get them wet from the inside out? Yeah, yeah, I should clarify that. Yeah, the inside, and then i just keep rotating through socks but the the liners particularly on these are dense enough i used to use coflac too and they're super comfortable and they had a real squishy nice but they would the the inner boot would absorb a little bit more moisture scarpa bought coflac and now they're putting those high density type liners in there and those don't absorb as much water they'll still get moist but you can open them up and and they'll they'll dry out pretty quick but yeah you have to rotate through your socks

but as far as the boot itself uh i've just had some issues with with you know certain types of leather boots that over the course of a hunt they get wet and you can't ever get them dry again yeah and then it gets cold now they're frozen they can't get your foot in there and you know that it just can can create some issues that way yeah yeah like wake up and put your boot inside your sleeping bag to get it thawed out enough to put it on exactly that's always fun yeah yeah then your feet are gonna be real warm yeah yeah it's a hell of a way to start the morning. You don't wear those plastic boots out squirrel hunting, do you? No, no.

So you save it for life. I do save it. For the extremes. I don't want to wear them out. I only have two pair of equipment. I can't decide hunting sheep this year. I'm kind of thinking about just running my Timberline boots, man. Uh-uh.

You don't think it's rigid enough i think it's a bad idea yeah because i wore those when i went into the bear tooths a couple weeks ago and it didn't take long i mean again on the trail i was loving it oh that's they're the greatest thing in the world like hunting the older i think it's the perfect shoe man yeah because we decided to hop a pass and get into another drainage and as soon as we got off the trail i was not they just don't have the lateral support you know yeah it's more it's a it's like a great trail boot but it's so comfortable i was actually kicking around doing it but probably just gonna go with you know go granites to have that extra oomph but no nighttime not bringing a nighttime comfy shoe well here's the deal though with our hunt we're flying into what the outfitter calls his base

camp right that has definitely has he has a weather port there which you probably know what that is i didn't really know what it what it is but weatherport when you look at a picture of it and tell me if i just describe, Kurt, but it's like a you know how sometimes... It's like a Quonset hut. Yeah, I was going to describe it as like when someone doesn't have enough money to actually put up a garage. Yeah, the shape of a Quonset hut.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. They put up those carports that you can drive into. It's like a tent. It's going to last five years or so. It kind of looks like that right yep yeah so where yeah so where we're flying yeah where you're flying into you can bring stuff like that you know it's like yeah when you're flying in whether you have that or not you can um whether you have that or not you can bring in extra food, all kinds of stuff. I'll have a couple of those extras there because then we're going to spike out

for two to three nights at a time. And so when I come back, I'll have that nice, like you called it, creature comfort. That's a good plan. Yeah, but even when you have a pilot that limits you, if you have a pilot that limits you if you have a

pilot that limits you to 50 pounds on a flight then it's pretty tight but other times when i've flown in with my brother hunting sheep we flew in extra emergency food and then like comfy shoes and even some other nice stuff that you like a puffy jacket that you're never going to carry with you but you can just hang in a tree in a dry bag and know you got to come back. So what I'm talking more about is when you strike off from the airstrip. In this case, we have an outfitter friend who's letting us use like a posh base camp that will then strike off from, like you're saying, for like a few days at a time.

So I'm talking about like leaving there. Okay. So you're asking me if I'm taking my Crocs with me? Evening time comfy shoes. No, I won't. Now, Kurt, how many pairs of socks do you bring? 14 days. 14 days.

So my program is... Your sock program? My sock program my sock program yeah so i i typically wear two pairs of of some sort of hiking sock a little bit taller and then two pairs at once two pairs at once yeah it just it keeps the blisters down yeah if you're having that many problems with blisters, maybe you should change your boots. That's a good point. Are those blister-inducing boots?

No. He was just saying that they don't give him blisters. Yeah. So maybe it's my socks that don't give me blisters. But not like a liner and a hiking sock. You actually double up on hiking socks. Like merino blend socks. Well, yeah yeah i should clarify

because i used to do the liner thing to eliminate blisters silk liners but it gives your foot like an unstable you don't talk about like for a while they made those like so we would run like a silk liner and then you'd put a merino blend thing over it but every in it you can't get a blister with them but every time you step you feel your foot shift yep in a very annoying way that leads your foot to get not blistered but sore because it's sliding around in there it's because it just it doesn't grip so it's like it feels like it feels a little bit like every step you feel your foot moving away it doesn't normally move you know which i hate that feeling so i gave up on liners you can eliminate blisters

though yeah yeah for sure so so i should clarify on this that they're they're basic uh you know just above boot top height um but it's it's a lighter pair of a merino based type hiking sock uh thinner and then a more cushioned fuller hiking sock on the outside. And then I'll just bring one extra pair of the thick pair, rotate those in and out every day. But depending on how long I go, three pairs of the lighter ones. And they don't take up hardly any room, but you can cycle them through. They're thin enough that if you get to a stream you can you can wash out one pair and just keep

rotating through so you don't get foot funk and i think the biggest thing that i found is on those long hunts when that that inner pair of socks that you have they get so matted right and they get to the point where they get hard yeah but you can rejuvenate them by washing them. That's it. So just having enough pair so I could cycle through them that way. Yeah, because like wash them in a creek and then you just hang them off your pack for the day.

That's exactly what I do. And they kind of re-fluff. They do. And I just wash them with like shampoo or whatever I happen to have with me. Yeah. Because I'll bring a little bit of shampoo. That's another question.

Because I'll bring a little bit of shampoo because my head starts to itch so damn bad. It drives me crazy. Do you ever bring any kind of soap? No, but I bring wet wipes, a little package of wet wipes. You know that Dr. Bonner soap? Like the teeniest container of that stuff is worth quite a bit, man. It really does, man.

You hit your face with that peppermint soap, dude. You're loving, man. Yeah, and it gives you a second wind. i would imagine i've never done a 14 day hunt you know i think the longest i've made has been maybe seven or eight nights like actually living out of my backpack but um yeah like four or five days in when you're just really getting that kind of greasy grimy feel going and if you're at that right creek in the sunshine to be able to dr bees your head and your face man you're a new man oh yeah that does sound nice one pair of pants one pair of pants

yeah but it's it's all in a layering system so you know usually uh you know merino base layer and then um a down insulation layer that's typically packed away for your legs down pants yeah it started on the lower body and then but bahama back up because let's say you're hunting uh do you run that when you're hunting sheep in august in alaska or do you just trust it's not could get that cold no uh i i always carried a pair at that time I was using the Patagonia synthetic micro puff they were some of the only ones that were on the market so even for the August hunt

because I feel like you can stay totally warm with a merino base then I wear like a wool blend like the first like canab pant like a wool blend pant then a rain pant because it's got to be pretty damn cold to get cold with that on.

You're absolutely right. So there's a couple of things. The first thing for me is that I had a couple instances where you get a lot of wind, a lot of rain, and it just gets damn cold sitting in one spot. You get in spots where you have to glass. You have to spend multiple hours being in one spot. Or you get pinned pinned down or you have to wait them out even if it's 65 degrees it's wet it's cold it's just like jumping in the ocean if it's 65 degrees you're going to die from hypothermia yeah yeah so that's why i started carrying them and then and then secondly that and i know kind of segue into this but it can also be part of your sleep system so you can

shave some weight by taking a lighter bag. Then you always have that. You know, when you have your puff layers up and down, you know, I'd only use a 32-degree bag. That's a good point. So, you know, you could kind of get multiple use out of gear. Yeah, that's a good point. I want to touch on that sleeping with puffies inside of a bag.

We can come back to that when we're talking about sleeping bags we don't get too off track so do you run rain pants yeah yeah yeah i'm a big believer in rain pants oh yeah yeah that's that's i think that's one of the key pieces of gear and i think they should call them wind and rain pants yeah because yeah there you go a lot of times we put it on the lawn just to beat the wind off of you. Yeah, exactly. Anytime it gets cold, you know, just keep it because so many of the layers are permeable, you know, so that they breathe that, that, that wind, you know, that air transfer just

pulls the heat, you know, from your inner layers. So it's nice to keep that barrier. I think too, that you wind up packing when it comes to clothes. You're more packing for the trip you just had than the trip you're going on. Like you're really informed by your last set of experiences. So if you go somewhere

and it's pretty warm and gravy, right? And then you're loading up for your next outing, you wind up being like, oh yeah, I'm cutting this out, I'm cutting that out. If you're coming somewhere from just being wet and cold, you think differently. Like coming up, if you were going to come off a fog neck, right, and go pack for a trip, no matter where it was,

you would approach it differently after that. Definitely. You're like driving rain and it gets in your head, you know. The whole world's like that. Yeah, it just gets in your head and it's hard to like snap out of it, you know. But if you come somewhere and everything's like, you know, you go and you pack a pair of rain pants and you go a week and never pull them out. Later you're like, yeah, screw these rain pants, man.

You know. Yeah. you're like yeah screw these rain pants man you know yeah so it's like you gotta like keep the you gotta keep in mind learn from what happened but not like really live it in a big way you know what i'm saying yep for sure where you're not you're not like trying to replicate you're not trying to do what you should have done when you had a shitty trip yeah you know yep hey folks exciting news for those who live or hunt in canada and boy my goodness do we hear from the canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes and our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join our northern brothers you're irritated well if you're sick of know, sucking high and titty there,

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But that's, that's where a lot of the, you know, the gear hacks come from. You know, there's nothing like a real piss poor miserable situation to make you change how you look at what you have in your pack you know when when you're cold for an extended period of time and you have all that time to sit there and think about the mistake you make because you didn't bring the right piece of gear that tends to stick with you yeah i feel like those are the only times it's like when it's sunny and 70 for a week you're not thinking about what gear is sitting in your tent you're not using there's the things i always like i'll lay out and look at and can't decide would be down camp booties mitts mittens like you spend

a few days your fingers just froze and that's more like a late season thing but like mittens i look at them i'm like really you're gonna bring mittens puffy pants we spent a lot of time debating puffy pants a big puffy like a down full on down jacket so nice to have and we'll debate it but with but with the early so if you're going if you're talking like an early season deal, like right now, or August, September, you're still saying you have long johns. Did you guys say long johns where you grew up? Yeah. What state were you born in?

Here. Here. Yep. You guys grew up saying long johns? Yeah. Yeah, my grandpa said it. Okay. You got your long johns.

Brian Callahan calls them long handles. Yep. Then you got your pants. Yep. And you're bringing puffies, And you're bringing rain pants. And your pack weighs what? 26 pounds? 26 pounds, yeah.

All right. So let's, Jan, you got any additional thoughts? No. I was going to say, let's go above the belt. Okay, but for you right now, you're not running. Don't tell me you're bringing puffies on our little adventure here. Yeah. Really? Yeah. And again're going we're flying in but but forget that because that'd be like saying yeah you can't because think about it like this think about it

like this think about if you have a place you could fly into and you have a base of operations if we were hunting right here out of town yeah and we're going away for two nights yeah and i said to you are you bringing your puffy pants you wouldn't say yeah they're in my house it's the same thing okay you follow me yeah i follow you i'm gonna bring them i'm talking about when you strike out to go spend several days, what could turn into several days, not what you're leaving behind in your truck or at a weather port or at a cabin or in your boat.

Follow me? Follow you. At the airstrip. It's like striking out. So you're striking out from your truck, say. You're telling me that you're going to bring puffies. Yeah. For what reason?

When it gets cold. What I might do is not bring long handles. Really? Yeah, because what I've started to do is because with long johns, you're always kind of like having to make the decision in the morning on whether they're going to be on you for the rest of the day, right? Because it's such a pain to take your pants off, take your boots off,

take them off, or put them on midday. So I almost like being like hunting in my base layer, which is just my pants. And then that way, as it progressively gets worse or colder, I can just add or take off. But I always know that like, oh shit, we're going to hike for five miles right now. Like I can just strip down and there are my regular pants

and I'm ready to go. Yeah, that's a good point. Because when you wake up in the morning, you got your long handles on. You're like, dude, I'm not taking these off because I'm so comfortable. And then you know that within 300 yards, you're going to be like, really, man? I wish I would have taken them off. Right.

Yeah. All right. And they probably weigh, you probably know exactly, but I'm guessing they weigh pretty close to the same amount. Yeah. Close enough. Yeah. Cause I mean the heavier wool stuff, you know, it's, it's definitely, yeah, I don't have the exact specs on it, but you're right.

You're probably, you're close. A lot more warmth. Yeah. Uh, when you count your pack weight. Yeah. You're, you're, uh, you're not counting what you're you're uh you're not counting what you you're you're not counting your main apparel but are you counting the weight of your puffies yeah yeah my puffies are puffies and socks you know gloves rain gear doesn't get counted though yeah rain

gear is in there okay and do you run and then uh do you like to run the same basic setup for uppers? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's virtually identical. Merino base. Yeah, merino base. Then like a thing, puffy. Yep. This year I'm thinking about going with,

thinking about switching it up a little bit. And not having, going like a T-shirt, Merino T-shirt, and then like a heavier shirt and just have that be my, like a T-shirt be my base layer because you can get so hot that time of year. In the middle of the day, walking up some never-ending hill a t-shirt could feel pretty good it's the same material it's not like you got like a cotton like no you're just doubling up belltown pizza t-shirt on you got like a merino t-shirt that's what i used to do i really liked it yep yeah don't even gotta be careful for that it's middle of the day going to a t-shirt man you

gotta pull out the sunscreen because you get worked over on some hills or bugs bugs yeah yeah but bugs aren't usually that bad up on the windswept ridges and stuff you know that's better have you got mauled by bugs much hunting sheep doll sheep oh yeah yeah for sure down in the bottoms and the willow bottoms it could be pretty for yeah and the little white socks i found they were more miserable than the than the mosquitoes the other night we were just getting mauled by them at our cabin and i did my daughter up in in bug spray but didn't get her uh you know, when kids are bent over and her shirt rides up. Oh, yeah.

Man, looks like. Felt like a bad dad, didn't you? Oh, my God, man. It's just nothing but bug bites on that one strip of skin between her waistline and her shirtline. Yeah, it felt pretty horrible. She's like, you didn't put bug spray there. Yeah, so on stuff like that that you bring a little sunscreen uh no i've never brought sunscreen do you bring a little bug spray yeah yep i did just 100% deet so you can have a small container

yep yep and a lot of times in alaska if it was on an early hunt, I'd just bring one of those super lightweight head nets. They can't weigh but an ounce. Then once you have your ball cap on, you don't even need the hooped one. Just keep them off your face. I just found those white socks, man. They dig and burrow underneath your hat. Even when you're wearing the bug spray, they're ferocious or can be do you like a heavy duty rain jacket or a light duty rain jacket uh i'm i'm using a three year three layer um you know waterproof breathable um i use you know multiple different so yeah it's

probably more on the heavy duty side than the than the lightweight. I've used the two-layer before, too, and it worked. The only problem was that a lot of times on the top of the shoulders or anywhere where your pack was riding, it just eventually would start to wet, and it was hard to get dry after that. So that was kind of why I went to the three-layer. I had a little better luck. And there wasn't hardly any difference in the weight. A couple ounces.

What do you do for gloves? I usually bring light gloves. I do. I have a light pair of the Outdoor Research. I think they call them the PL400s or something. But they're a merino synthetic blend. So even if your hands get wet, they stay, you know, they stay pretty warm and they dry out real quick. But then I take the OR mitts, the Gore 100% waterproof mitts over that. So

if you do get into the alders or something, you know, real wet conditions, they'll keep your hands dry. And, you know, it's not as convenient because you don't have the fingers but i haven't had a lot of luck with with you know 100 waterproof fingered gloves just seems no it's all a lie man yeah yeah i'm not saying that they're not out there but i i haven't no you can buy a fishing or like what do they call them? Grabbing gloves. If you really want something that's 100% fun. Vinyl. Vinyl gloves are

waterproof but they're just sweaty and swampy. Yep. So let's say you were hunting just hunting September archery elk. You wouldn't bring the mitts. No. That's the great thing about hunting elk, you know, especially in this state, you're going to have an unbelievable, you know, forecast.

You can check everything. You can pack for the specific weather that you're going to have opposed to what you guys are going into or, you know, even what I'm going to do. I, you could be in snow, you could be 80 degrees and you could be anywhere in between you know august 10th up there yeah no we've hunted we've hunted in august in the snow which when you're looking for a white animal really like yeah it's bad it is bad or sitting in the tent yep sit in the tent for two days and then it snows and it's got that kind of foggy quality yeah i remember in august hunting sheep and it snowed and then it finally got just beautiful and looking at tracks on a mountainside

and just following the tracks in my spotting scope and trying to figure out where the tracks went and realized they ended because there's a sheep standing there. Couldn't see the sheep. I could just see that the trail ended. Yes, no. Man, I'm glad to have this conversation because you're reminding me of all the bad things that can happen. Well, you know, that's the interesting thing, especially up there, is you never know what you're going to be getting into. So you kind of really have to prepare for everything, whether or not you leave it at camp or not. Yeah.

But with gloves, you know, that sounds like you don't pack a pair of gloves to actually like really protect your hands. No, the mitts are there. It's more to keep them dry. Yeah, yeah. But that's the other thing that I found with the mitts though is that even when your hands get cold,

you know, when you have all of your fingers together inside the mitt, my hands seem to warm up quicker. For sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then you then you get you know if you can keep that warmth up it'll help dry out the gloves you have under it you know the soft shell layer so that's kind of been my program that i've stuck with and they're extremely light you know that's another added feature. Yeah. I've gone to like really not, unless it's like just getting that, that cold where like, okay,

you have to have gloves on, which a lot of times it's getting near freezing. And so you get into usually once it gets near freezing, you're getting into sort of a drier state, right? Cause you're not looking at rain anymore, but possibly snow. I know there's that in between and probably see it a lot in Alaska,

but I've found having better luck, just having my hands out there, getting drenched and just kind of being like, yes, this is how it's going to be today and dealing with it. And then at the end of the day, when I get in my tent or whatever, being able to put on some dry gloves or when the rain stops, put on some dry gloves. When you get out of the willows, put on some dry gloves. Because it just feels like if you get your liners wet, I almost feel like that's worse, having wet gloves on your hands than just having wet hands.

Because the minute it stops raining, your skin dries. And what I've been doing too is I'll just run them inside my rain jacket pockets as I'm hiking along if I don't need my hands. And that seems to keep them warm enough yeah they're wet but and once you get them wet it takes a hell of a nice day to ever get them dry again yeah your gloves for sure yeah i'm with you there i do everything i can to keep those

you know the actual insulating layer dry and even as far as just wearing the mitts over a bare hand you know if it's if it's wet and blowing and you know just hovering at that 45 super cold or feels cold with the wet you can just put those over bare hands and it'll keep your fingers warm do you uh do you um Do you wear a neck gaiter? I have, yeah, depending on the time of year, I'll take one with me. If it's earlier, normally I don't. But if there's any chance of snow, yeah. I have a lightweight one, kind of a poly blend. Do you like a belt?

Do you wear a belt or just an internal like built-in belt on my britches apparently yeah um yeah yeah no i do i do but i just use some of our webbing i just have you know just the real thin one inch webbing and the tension lock yeah that's the kind of belt i like for like i i generally wear like a heavy duty belt normally for most stuff but I now have a super thin dinky little three-quarter inch webbing belt because I hate the feeling of my backpack digging into my belt yep I do too and it's and it's keeping all of that volume on the waistline as small as you can I I mean, for me, at least. What do you mean?

Well, you know, some pants have the doubled up belt loops, or if you go with a thicker webbing belt, all of that stuff creates that, you know, that extra thickness right in your belt line, and it just becomes a pressure point for, you know, when you're packing, when you have your heavy pack, when you tighten the hip belt on it. Gotcha yeah especially on the belt loop areas i've noticed some of the pants i've used so yeah because i'll get it to where i can feel like

some like numb sensations almost like on the fronts of my thighs kind of coming off my hips a little bit and a lot of times i'll look in there and do some wiggling around and something's just been bunched up just to create that pinch point. Yep. What kind of undies you're on? I use those. I use the first light wool ones,

the ones that are a little bit longer. You like those? I do. I dig those, man. Those are super comfortable. And it's almost like having like half of a set of long johns. It is. If you've got long socks on, you can pull up to your knees.

The only thing that's not exposed is your kneecap. I really dig those. They're comfortable. How many extra pairs of undies do you bring along? That's it. Just the ones? Just the ones.

Do you ever take them in and wash them on a super nice day? Eh, nope. just the ones just the ones you ever take them in and wash them on a super nice day eh nope listen I definitely don't I don't have a problem with that I don't have a problem

with that at all that's what the wet wipes are for that is yeah yeah so you gotta keep up there's some maintenance

that goes along with it for sure yeah we used to mess around with various powders, talc powder and stuff like that. Do you do anything like that? I don't.

Just wet wipes? Yeah, just wet wipes. You bring one wet wipe for every day? I bring one of those little packages. A shower in a bag? Yeah, it's a shower in a bag. Like a souped up wet wipe? No, just the regular unscented ones.

Yeah. You like the unscented i do yeah i don't know why yeah it's not gonna i i don't believe that it makes a difference it just seems like the thing you should do if you're hunting i usually bring one i usually bring one for every day but you ever you familiar with shower in a bag basically it's a big ass wet wipe okay yeah it's a big wet wipe you know you can do a good scrubbing but then you might be having all the damn things you know unless you burn them or something yeah you ever make fires um not very often no no what do you bring for a hat your ball cap obviously yeah you gotta shave your eyes yeah ball cap and then uh stocking hat, several different types. Do you run around in Warren where you wear your stocking hat over your ball cap?

No, I don't. But this last year, I started using, and I can't even remember who makes it, maybe Marmon or something, the hoodie, the full face, not full face, be like a half-faced hoodie that you can pull up over yeah yeah man that was slick i like that but kind of the same principle where you can just pull it up over your ball cap and i found that i was wearing my stocking hat rarely after having that and it was real lightweight material so you know to dry out even after it got snow on it it was nice you don't wear like a wool blend stocking cap?

I do have one, yeah. Yeah, I do have one that I carry. On something like your stocking cap, do you ever like get rid of the stocking cap you like because you're worried about it being too heavy and go with a lightweight stocking cap? No, I can't say I've done that. I left behind my, last September on my Elkhorn, I left behind my wool stocking cap

and just went with the First Light Chama hoodie. Oh, yeah. Because I found the same thing. You're wearing that thing, so when it gets chilly, you're putting that on. And then next thing you know, you went a whole week and you never put your beanie hat on. And plus, I like sleeping in that thing because it's loose. So the stocking cap sometimes for me on my ears,

if I'm wearing it all day, your ears start to hurt. Oh, yeah, man, for sure. You been wearing all day your ears start to hurt oh yeah sleeping in your ears hurt yep but those hoodies are nice they are i was behind the curve on that one most everybody i knew hunted with one and i don't know why i didn't ever conform but i know why they have them now i uh the reason i like the little the thin merino neck gaiter is i also sleep where i wear it as my little toque at night that's french for hat i think i wear it at night and i pull it over my eyes to make things extra dark you know i'm saying keeps your ears warm makes everything nice and dark so you can sleep good

it's the perfect thing especially in alaska this time of year yep that's the thing is like it's sometimes hard to sleep. Yep. Yep. For sure. Yeah. I remember my brothers one time, like, yeah, hunting in August.

They one time were watching some sheep and they said, there's no point during the night when you couldn't wake up and find them with, find them with binoculars. Yeah. Like,

always that light out. It starts to drive you crazy. Yeah. So I like that. Even just up at my fish shack shack i was running my thing over my eyes at night long still long days but i've really kind of rely on it a little thin neck gator i use it for tons of stuff and keeps down sunburn on your neck and like you're always getting your neck cooked it's amazing what those thin little merino ones will do for you just for uh for upping your warmth you lose a lot of

heat out of your neck so when you put that thing on it really it insulates oh dude it gushes out of there man if you can kind of cork that up with one of those things yeah what else yanni oh what else i guess while we're still on clothes, we should talk gators. Yeah. I think a lot of guys wear gators because they think they look badass. I think people, it's like when you see a mug walking around and it's hot out and dry out and they got gators on, like, what are you gatoring? Well.

Gators are good for. No, hold on. Let me answer your question. Okay. Because you might be running like a very low profile, more of like almost like a running shoe, like a Buddy Rick Smith runs. Sure. And in that case, if you have one of those like small, tight,

I think they call them scree gators, you know, you're keeping the junk out of your shoes. Okay. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about big, full-on knee gaiters. Okay. Are good for the snow. They're good for wading through a bunch of wet brush.

Mm-hmm. And they're good for- Crossing a shallow creek. Crossing a shallow creek. Mm-hmm. But to be out tromping around in gaiters in nice weather, I don't understand. It's like people who go snowshoeing when there's only a foot of snow.

Because they just want the experience of who go snowshoeing when there's only a foot of snow. Because they just want the experience of wearing the snowshoes. Flipping snow up on their butt. I'm going snowshoeing whether I need them or not. I think some people like to run gators because they feel like they're a badass mountain hunter when they strap those gators on. I really think that that's true.

Kurt, what's your take on this? Well, I'm 6'4". And I had a hell of a time finding pants that weren't floods. Yeah, yeah. So a lot of times, that's why I wore them. But that being said, I totally understand where you're coming from. But if you're on a long hunt, so take, for example, on this hunt, are you going to take gators? No, because I'm wearing rain pants. Okay.

So I typically always take gators. But on a nice warm day, you figure out what do you do with them. You had them on in the morning because you get up in the morning and everything's wet. So you don't want your pants to get wet or that's the reason that you have the gaiters. And then it gets nice in the middle of the day. And normally, I'll wear them all day unless it gets so hot that it's uncomfortable in your calves and everything. Because they can get sweaty.

That's the thing. Yeah, it's just things get swampy inside there. Yeah. And if you've got a good pair of rain pants that you can buckle down or tighten down, if I'm putting them on, I'll even roll my pants up one or two times and then put my rain pants on and buckle them down. Yep. That's a pro move.

If it's snowy, I like the gators. Especially tent camping. Like this kind of stuff. Because then you got all that snow packed up. You pull your pants off and you realize it's got like that wet globs of basically like snowballs living between your pants and boots and stuff that's that's not good gators are nice for that yeah why are you looking at me like that i was just going to add about your time about rolling your pants up and uh i don't know why i got to doing that last September.

Because that's how they hunt in New Zealand. They hunt in shorts and boots. Yeah, but I was wearing my gaiters. But what I was doing is I had those long, tall, first light socks on, and I was tucking my pants into the tops of those socks so that they wouldn't be on top of my boots where there's moisture coming in, even underneath the gaiters a little bit. And as soon as, you know, that moisture hits something that's dry, it's going to want to wick and travel. And I would find that even though I was all covered up, when I had my pants down, I would have like the bottom, you know, full of my

pants, possibly the tops of my socks would be wet. And you're like, can I really be sweating that much? Or why was that? So as soon as I started doing that and bringing my cuffs up tops of my socks would be wet. And you're like, can I really be sweating that much? Or why was that? So as soon as I started doing that and bringing my cuffs up off of my boots and just letting the gator be with the boot, I had 100% completely dry feet and dry socks and dry. When I got in a tent, I would roll down my pants and they'd be completely dry.

People underestimate wicking. Yeah. Water travels crazy places. If it's super wet and you're getting your cuffs wet, that stuff will migrate way up youricking. Yeah. Water travels crazy places. If it's super wet and you're getting your cuffs wet, that stuff will migrate way up your arm. Yeah. Well, John Edwards from Schnee is telling me that he thinks a lot of people complain

about having wet, leaky boots because the water will actually come all the way up their pants, hit their socks, and then go down their sock into their boot, where they're like the top of their boots wetter than their toes are. You ever look up water in a dictionary? No.

That's good. You think you know all about water? It's called, I think, an almost universal solvent. It has nothing to do with what we're talking about. You good on gators? I'm going to bring them. You're bringing them yeah oh yeah

not just your rain pants no maybe I'll bring mine too good idea you agree that people like the aesthetics of gators yeah yeah I agree with you

they like them until they realize how sweaty they can make your calves I think I gotta think about it I can't decide um that's it for duds i think so any other accessories that we missed gloves hats talk about shades what about some shades oh yeah shades bring shades on your sheet pot no no no it's bad luck. It'll just start raining. Really?

No. But, no, I don't bring any. You don't bring shades? Uh-uh. God, some days are nice to have. They are. Yeah. Yeah.

I shouldn't say never. They're hard to maintain, though. I think that's been the problem. Yeah, because you almost have to bring a case. You do. And you have to keep track of them. Yeah. Some days are nice, but they're a little bit hard to maintain.

But some days, it's just so a little bit hard to maintain but some days it's just like so nice to have them yep yeah especially if you're hunting the alpine not a lot of shady trees to hide under no but it's hard to glass with them you know you end up taking them off oh for sure yeah but i've had it be i've had it be there's one in particular i remember because i got a couple photographs from it like early on this is long 20 years ago um hunting doll sheep where we were even like making uh taking duct tape to convert sunglasses into glacier glasses it was that bad especially when you get out in snow fields yeah it is horrible yeah and like trying to seal off anything around like you're like that hurting for sunglasses and like keeping that in mind

if you're hanging around glaciers and stuff keeping that in mind makes you be like okay with carrying around sunglasses it's just as miserable i take it you're going to bring some. Oh, yeah. After that, for sure. Where it's just horrible. There's a lot of glare. Even the rock gets glary. The shale gets glary. You don't believe in them. No, I wouldn't say that I don't believe in them. Because, I mean, I always have sunglasses with me or on, you know, all summer. But I think you just kind of get to that point of, you know,

what can I live without? Yeah, and I'm with you. Yeah. Those boys didn't make it. Costa sent me some camouflage sunglasses. Oh, yeah? So I'll be able to hide, too. Don't set them down.

Well, they got a yellow lens okay there you go hopefully it's yeah hopefully it's reduced glare lens too any any other clothing so i want to move on any other clothing no no i think i think we can move on here's all unless you want to throw in that uh that i got a question about or not a question but i want to see what you guys think about cotton. And if you've ever really seen somebody go down because of cotton, right? Because people say cotton kills, and then have you figuratively ever actually seen someone get smoked? I've seen people.

I can't even think of the dude's name. His first name was Chuck. I don't want to say his last name. Hunting caribou. Had like a lot to say his last name. Hunting Caribou. Had a lot of Carhartt-type stuff with him. And his just absolute system failure. Wet, heavy, cold. Because you can't.

There's just nothing. There's nothing better, man. Dudes that, like big-time horse guys, because horse guys can pack so much shit with them right so horse guys they'll be like you know bring a big carhartt jacket like there's nothing better when it's cold to wake up and have that like windproof you know thing but um and i've happily owned many of those things but it's just like the kind of thing, like once you get something like that wet, you can't get that.

There's no wearing that dry. There's just no wearing it dry. And you could be packing around, I don't know, five to 10 pounds of water weight just in a jacket like that. For sure. The other day,

I had to wash my daughter's sleeping bag in a five gallon bucket. And I remember putting like I filled that bucket about a third the way up oh you remember we were beach combing I found that jug of jug of detergent that I think came from the Japanese tsunami

remember because all that Japanese stuff laying everywhere filled a five gallon bucket about a third the way up with water and just put a little splash of that in there because they didn't have any other kind of salt

and put that sleeping bag in there. That water vanished. I was like, wow, man. That's like a couple, like you said, a couple pounds of water.

You know? More. Yeah, more. Like you can fit a lot of water. I mean, a whole five-gallon bucket is 40 pounds. You can fit a lot of water i mean a whole five gallon bucket's 40 pounds you can fit a lot

of water into fabric and this fabric that you're not going to get it out of i think is is no good so in that way yeah and then i've seen people that had cotton socks it just don't work unless you're just tough but my brother can hunt cotton socks because he's impervious to discomfort it's amazing yeah he he defies logic sometimes i was with him you know a couple weekends ago for two or three nights in the woods and i was like really that's what you're wearing and that's what you're bringing all right um he's also got llamas too so he's got a little bit of that horse guy mentality you know extra socks bring the bring the kitchen sink you know yeah he can bring extra He's also got llamas too. So he's got a little bit of that horse guy mentality. Extra socks. Yeah, bring the kitchen sink.

Yeah, he can bring extra socks with him for sure. The other day, my kids found a dead gunnel. It's like a fish that looks like an eel. They found it dead in a tide pool. And then they put a scallop shell on the fire and boiled it. And it was already kind of nasty. And they found it and boiled it. And it was already kind of nasty, you know, and they found it and boiled it

and he just ate the whole thing. They thought that was funny. But he just like, doesn't, you know what I mean? This dude doesn't, just nothing bothers him. So you can't learn a whole lot from him,

you know? I remember one time he drank a coffee mug full of rendered bear oil. Oh my word. Just drank it. Because he wanted the calories? Yeah, nothing happened to him either. A coffee mug.

At that moment. A coffee mug of melted rendered bear lard and just drank it. No, he said no oil effect. That just sounds foul. Dude's impervious, man. This conversation would drive him nuts. Because he would just think

like, oh, crying out loud. It's just not that complicated. Throw some stuff in a bag and go. No, he never participates in this kind of conversation. He just can't. It's just like beyond his comprehension. People fussing over all this stuff.

What about you? You ever seen cotton really get yeah work over someone yeah similar situation i uh hunted with a guy when i first moved to alaska and uh we went on i hadn't hunted with him on on this type of hunt before but we went on a goat hunt and it was late october it was a registration hunt and you know that typical heavy snow hanging on all the alders and he had some sort of you know carhartt type work pant on with some gators and yeah by the time we got there it was about five miles in and you know he was borderline hypothermic and you know just got everything set up got him in a sleeping bag you know and then of course you're stuck it's the only thing that you have so the trip was over you

know we we spent the night got him warm waited for it to warm up a little bit that day put the same cold pants on and I doubt you know it, it's like, well, that sucked. But yeah, especially since there were goats in there. But yeah, that type of situation, it can become scary in a hurry. Right. Yeah. Do you bring anything that would qualify

as survival equipment? I think the biggest piece of survival equipment I take is a sat phone and something like this. Or I have an inReach too, one of the two. And I think that that's my biggest portion of it. And I just kind of keep my route updated with my wife. And so I you know, have check-in times and, um, but yeah, as far as a specific piece of equipment or, you know,

within a first aid kit, just kind of your standard stuff. Um, you know, I, I don't have a special skillset in the medical field, so I don't take anything that I don't know how to use. That isn't far beyond, you know, trying to keep an infection down if you get cut. Yeah, I bring triple antibiotic ointment and an assortment of bandages. Yeah, I mean, that would be probably my biggest concern, something that I could take care of. Alcohol wipes, triple antibiotic ointment. Yeah.

Knuckle Band-Aids, regular Band-Aids, and I bring a little roll of med tape, which actually doubles as just general purpose tape. Yeah. Like a little teeny roll of med tape, probably 10 feet of it. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing

that I think I could control is you get in situations where, you know, you could get an infection from a cut after cleaning an animal. But beyond that, no, I don't carry much else. Do you carry like an extra lighter? You'll have like a lighter? Oh, no, I carry a couple of lighters. I always have one on me, and I always have one in my pack.

Okay. Yeah. Yep. And what other kind of stuff like that? You bring matches, just lighters? I do just bring lighters. Do you bring matches just lighters i do just bring lighters do you bring fire starter material i do yep yep so you know and it kind of depends year to year but uh typically some of like a vaseline coated cotton ball or um some sort of

gel you know you can buy different. I play around with different things, but I have a few of those. And I'm trying to think what else. I started using that. I take one of Dirt Myth's chew tins and fill it full of Vaseline-coated cotton balls because, one, the Vaseline can be good for chapped lips or any kind of other problem.

Two, the TSA guys don't steal it because you're not flying around with flammable stuff. And burns like the Dickens, man. Yeah. The cotton ball impregnated with Vaseline. I know, that's what I found too. I was really surprised. Dude, it doesn't make any sense.

I know. Just lights right up. Yep. Yeah. So I think that's probably the most important stuff of the situations i see myself getting into is you know being able to keep down an infection of some sort or you know being able to get warm you know you look at the number of people that die of hypothermia or get into a bad situation because of that and you know probably one of the highest killers of you know guys being out in the backcountry lacrosse has spent over a century

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Because he's like, when it's frozen in the middle, you can sear the living bejesus out of that thing and gets like a bark on it that you wouldn't believe. And then sets it out because it's getting pretty hot and sets it out and lets it rest. And eventually that thing just comes to the right temp from his own heat. He's loving it. To get yours, visit chefsteps.com slash jewel

and use code MEATEATER to get 15 bucks off for a limited time. That's chefsteps.com slash J-O-U-L-E, code MEATEATER. And I think they had it where it's case sensitive, so run it all uppercase. If you folks never went to school, that's the big letters. Jewel, perfect food every time. I heard of a guy hunting doll sheep last year that had to get flown out for heat stroke.

Oh, wow. I hadn't heard of that. No. One or the other, man. Yeah. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You know,

probably had gators on. Probably. That's what broke him. So I'm trying to think of other things that people would regard as survival gear that you'd bring on say like a like an archery bow hunt or some kind of big time sheep hunt you know i went hunted yeah i hunted with a guy that didn't know if he was

allergic to bees and we got into a ground nest of wasps be you know some type of hornet in alaska and he got stung seven or eight times and that was the first time i started thinking about you know having something to deal with an epi pen or what is it you know benadryl or you know something oh i carry that's the other thing man i carry an assortment of meds but just single like single this single that yeah you know a couple little like a handful of ibuprofen yep oh anti-diarrheal you gotta have that i haven't brought that that's really you don't a good point really yeah they're about two they're about a tenth the size of a dime i think that's a good one yeah they are actually small even for a pill.

But yeah, I think I carry probably four in my kit. Yeah, because that'll slow you down. Do you carry a traditional compass? I don't. That's like total shit hits the fan, right? Yeah. Or you're hunting out on the tundra or something where it's hard to tell what the hell is what.

But in the mountains, navigation is so different because you have such stark topography to kind of help you figure out what's the what. You do. If you go wandering off for caribou, you could like pretty quickly have no idea what's going on. Yeah, especially if fog rolls in, that type of thing. And when you're in the mountains, if you're in that kind of country, if the fog rolls in, you want to be able to see where where you're going you might get yourself in no spot you can't get out of or can't get down through so yeah no i haven't i haven't carried one i have one of those little micro compasses that's in my survival kit you know along with uh i think there's still an emergency blanket in there. I've got a piece of paper and a small

pencil in there. There's a roll of duct tape in there. One of those rolls that's like your pinky. I gave up on emergency blankets. Especially like sheep hunting. You just can't leave your pack. You can't leave your pack. You got it. you're so vulnerable it's you can't be going off for like a day hunt you know because you don't have an extra thing anyway it's like

the thing's just always with you you know yeah yeah you know another good one is uh i carry a small roll of gorilla tape on either my ice axe or my my walking stick you know and a little bit of electrical tape too but that gorilla tape and i'm sure lots of duct tape the same way but the gorilla tape seems to have a little bit more gummy on it and it's worked well to be able to seal up pants when you you know you know like yeah tore home my pants or my gators and you massage that in there and hit it with the lighter a couple of times and get hot and yeah, it'll, it'll seal up a lot.

But I carry those, what are those patches? Those circle patches? Oh, for the Therm-a-Rest? Yeah, dude, those are great. Well, I mean, Vortex makes them and then, yeah, the name of the tape is, it's the greatest stuff in the world man it comes these little weird little rolls is it was a k isn't it you don't know it oh man you have to look it up now it's basically like

yeah it's like you're at the outer textile of a rain jacket with some tape with but you can buy two inch circles of it yeah it's about as bulky as cutting a two inch circle out of a piece of printer paper but it's the perfect patch yeah that'd be great patch sleeping bag patch thermo rest yep patch anything i don't actually run a thermo rest you bring a sleeping pad yeah yeah yeah i'm not that tough yeah i got like a little nemo blow up sleeping pad i bring it yeah well and when it gets cold i mean that's lifesaver boy it is yeah sleeping on cold ground so for a yeah so for a sleep system yeah i go tent and i've messed around all kinds of string and tarps up with strings and stuff but it's like which is great until things are nasty or until you're stuck in the fog for days on end. I like to use a tent.

I use a very lightweight, inflatable, insulated pad. And I use a sleeping bag that is five or 10 degrees lower than what I expect the lows to be. I never gamble on good weather with a sleeping bag because once you get tired and you're just not getting good sleep and you're cold all night, it just affects your whole game. It does. So something like this, I'll probably, say like an Archery Elkhorn

or August Sheep or whatever, I'd probably bring like a 15 degree bag knowing that I'm probably going to be sleeping with the zipper open. Yeah. Well, and there isn't that much weight difference between the 15s and even a 30. What?

Six, eight ounces. I own so many sleeping bags right now it's like kind of ridiculous that's what makes me have like i used to have all sleep like when i was younger you just had a bag and some bitch bag on everywhere you went yeah you know now i'm like who do i want you know i can get right down to the degree you know and it's kind of annoying right when I look at them all. Yeah. Montana, September sheep hunt, zero or 15 for you? I'll take a 15. You take a tent or no tent? Oh, yeah, I always take a tent.

You're a tent guy. Yeah, 100%. I'm guessing you'll be packing the new Stone Glacier tent this year. I will be, yeah, a new Stone Glacier tent. Are you going to run? But that's a two-man tent. It is a two-man tent, and it's lighter than my one-man. What? Yeah. Yeah right right there close so you air on because i i put a i put a uh my one man's a little bit modified because i put a stove jack in it so it bumped it up over the weight but

so you air on the side of heavy duty tent i do? I do. I had a couple of bad experiences, and not as bad as they could have been. But that's a game-changer. That, to me, in a couple of situations, was the last lifeline. If you're out there by yourself, and you're in a miserable storm, and you don't have shelter you know

you can hypothermia is yeah you can die yeah it's gonna happen you bring a book i have in the past yeah yeah i i actually hadn't thought about that this time we got stuck hunting sheep one time in the fog same time i was talking about when it snowed after the fog my brother had a book and we cut that book in thirds because there's three of us we cut that book in thirds because it was his book his book he got to read the first part first but like the other people had to start like either the second third or middle third and we swapped that book around everyone read that book it was like a biography of the first superintendent of Denali National Park. Not a great book.

Some good stories in there. In that book, they're always out hunting bears to get bear lard to make biscuits. I remember thinking that was interesting. But yeah, man, reading material. But now it's just easy to have something. You don't need a big book. You can have like a... Something to keep you entertained.

Yeah, you can have like a little digital reader. Yeah. And have a lot of stuff on it. And then you're packing stuff just in case you get stuck. Yeah, and that was one of the things that I started to look at is, on a scale of 1 to 10, can you live without it? Or how often are you going to use it? And you assign a value to it. You have this group of equipment here on the table you don't know whether to put in your pack,

and you assign a value to it. And you're like, OK, now I can quantify whether or not I should take that book or I should take whatever it might be. Yeah, it falls on this spectrum. Yeah. Your shoes being on one end and then your book being on the other end of the spectrum of necessity. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. And it's tough calls. And a lot of times, I don't know until the last second. I'll still have a little bag laying there until the last second i'll still have like a little bag laying there to the last second and i'm still like in my mind yeah kicking it away in and out yeah you need to pack like you feel when you're walking back to the strip you know when you're just absolutely torn up and you're thinking of all of the shit that you're carrying that you didn't ever touch

yeah you're thinking uh next time I'm not going to do that. I used to, and I haven't here in the last few years, but I used to always carry a little tablet with me and leave it at the strip and kind of go through. If there was something, I'd make notes about my trip when I was waiting to get picked up and say, didn't use this, did use this, could have used that. So all those little fine points

that you'd kind of forget down the road so that that that also helped to kind of refine the entire gear list program what do you what do you like for water water purification i'll tell you what i like yeah i'm telling you man we have just switched let me back up you know we're talking about survival stuff yeah i carry a few Yeah. I'm telling you, man, we have just switched. Let me back up. You know, we're talking about survival stuff. Yeah. I carry a few iodine tablets in the little individual packs, right?

A few iodine tablets, but we've switched to those. Steripens. Steripens, man, infrared light. I've never used it. It's just like. Are you running a pump? No's just like you're going to you're running a pump no oh you're just going no it's drinking it's drinking bear shit water no no i haven't done that either no i used a pump for a while and then i had some issues um well with silt and you know they're kind of cumbersome yeah they're pain in the ass you dread it you're like

oh man i gotta go down to the creek in the dark yeah and then and then that's all i brought and then of course the thing's filled with water and it froze and then you know cracked and then it doesn't work so you get a light you need to get a pen man well i think i might because all i've been carrying on my longer trips is just tablets so yeah you don't want to drink all that all the time though man it's not good for you. No, I figure for 14 days I can do anything. Like Steve always says, it ain't going to be the thing that kills you. No.

It's because you ate, drank, iodized water for 14 days. No, it's not going to be what kills you. And I regret saying that it's not good for you because I don't really know. And it's not like you're doing it year-round for your whole life. However, a SteriPen is the size of the... Well... because I don't really know. And it's not like you're doing it year-round for your whole life. No.

However, a SteriPen is the size of the, well, well, it's the size of if you take two fingers and join it up to your other two fingers. Yeah. Those sons of bitches are the nicest. That's a great, that person should get a Nobel Prize in backpacking. So how do you use it? Do you fill up a Nalgene

and then drink through the straw into the Nalgene? No, no, no, no, no. Not straws. You fill a bottle up. Oh, they drop in there. No. Yeah.

It's a wand. Yeah, it drops in there. It doesn't drop in there. You wave it in there. Okay. I got you. I'm following what you're saying now. It looks like a flashlight.

So you could put it right in your ear. It looks like a flashlight. No, it doesn't right in your ear. It looks like a flashlight. It doesn't look like a flashlight. It looks like a flashlight handle. Lightsaber. It looks like a little miniature. It's a lightsaber that's seven inches long. Okay?

You dip your neck. However you go about it, you get a bottle full. You get a water bottle full. And put that thing in there and wave it around for 90 seconds. Can you throw it in a hydration bladder? No, I think that I've done it and just hope for the best because it says that basically one, I think you tab it twice for half a liter

and tab it once for a full liter. So if you're doing a gallon hydration bladder, do it three times and swirl it around and hope you're killing everything in there. Okay. Or I guess I'm always running a bladder and a Nalgene. So I would just do my Nalgene, pour it in there, do my Nalgene, pour it in there. We're opening up another question now that has to do with water. So you're running tablets yep do you run the double tablet where you do the iodine then you do the thing that takes away the taste of the iodine you just run the iodine yeah i started bringing those you like them yeah i like them it just takes a little bit of the taste away

okay so i have that i have myen. I bring a water bottle. And then I bring a bladder, the MSR bladders. Because then you can go down and get a heap and help in the water. Yeah, especially in sheep country. Yeah. Yeah, dude, you're like 2,000 feet above the water. Yep. And that's what I do i do too is i carry a they're the i have the two liter ones so i carry two of the two liter ones and

platypus makes them and they're just a couple ounces they're the super lightweight that plastic stuff yeah yeah dude that's the fails man well but i don't have to use them that often you know i'm talking about the msr ones, they're almost like a fabric. Yeah, yeah. But I just carry these ones to carry extra water. So say, for example, if I'm going into a spot where I don't think that there's going to be water, I'll have my regular hydration bladder, and then I'll have either one or two of these. So I can take six, eight liters of water up above tree line if you don't think that you're going to have water up there.

So you use a hydration bladder in your pack? No, I never put it in my pack. Okay, good, yeah. I put it in the lid. Because you can't be doing that if you're in a place where you can't afford to have your stuff get all wet. Well, and it just, in my experience, caused nothing but issues

because as the water bladder starts to get smaller, you lose your compression, things shift, it pinches the hose or it pinches off the, you know, you can't tighten the pack down super tight. The hose freezes. The hose freezes. So that's the other thing. As soon as there's snow on the ground, I leave the, I don't bring a bladder anymore. I just travel.

I carry, I swap my. So you're eating snow melt, drinking eating snowmelt drink yeah yeah i swap i swap the bladder for an extra canister of fuel and so you know just you know stop heat up some water you know get up my water bottle and keep rolling you know do that a couple few times so you like those plastic platypus ones well i like them because i can carry extra water. I won't be, I never use them as a- As a daily. Yeah, as your daily. I don't have a hose hook to them.

They are just a water carrier. And then they last for that. Oh, yeah. You can't carry them around. Because in some areas, I'll have my water bottle, but I'll also fill up that MSR jug, the MSR thing, and put that in my backpack, depending on what you think is going on with water.

And water can be tough. Oh, it can ruin a hunt. What do you like for a stove? I got so many different stoves, man. And then the pilots, like the bush pilots now, not liking the canisters, has moved things back. Yeah. Because you used to use

like slot stoves, you know, then went to canister stoves, but now no one wants to fly the canisters. Yeah. So it's like back to slot stoves now. Yeah.

I've never heard that. Slut? Oh, well, you know, like my Optimus stove, you can burn diesel, unleaded, aviation fuel.

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slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX Club, y'all. What are you packing for a stove? It depends on the time of year of the hunt um so i say on on this hunt i'm trying to take virtually all the food doesn't have to be cooked you know maybe it needs to be rehydrated so you know you need to rehydrate it at noon for it to be ready in the evening if but not counting on cooking and boiling water every day so then you can go lighter on your fuel um i'm using the uh msr um

is it is it the dragonfly the no what's that one called it's just that whisper light whisper light i like that light too man yeah it's just that that's one that fits that little triangular shape plastic container yeah yeah well i had that one too and, man. Yeah, it's just that tiny little guy. That's the one that fits that little triangular-shaped plastic container. Yeah, yeah. Well, I had that one, too, and then they actually came up with a smaller version of that. Smaller than that? It fits on a canister, or you run gas to it? No, it fits on a canister. Oh, you're thinking of the Pocket Rocket.

Pocket Rocket. Yeah, that's the one I had. Yeah, you're right. Yep. That's a nice little stove. It is. That's a great little stove. So I'll carry that, one or two cans of fuel,

the smaller four-ounce ones, and just not count on cooking much. Maybe if you need to melt snow for water or something. So you'll go a whole day and not eat anything warm? Yeah, most of the time. Most of the time? I'm not into that scene, man. Yeah. So tell me what you're, instead of having a house at night,

what are you eating? Well, I carry a lot of bars, you know, and there's a lot of different things. And there's a few of the mountain houses too that if you get water in them early enough that it'll just be like cold leftovers by the end of the night, you know, so by the time you're ready to eat it, it's just not a big deal. So you just start thinking about dinner at noon, throw some water in there. Yeah, you can do that.

And you can do it with different ramen. You can do the same thing or instant rice. It just takes longer. I never thought about that with house. Do you take a house packet and put cold water in there? Some of them. Some of them you can. Which flavors are like that?

The chicken teriyaki rice is the one that I carry. There's also a Thai one. Is that like you can find that information online or have you just learned that over experience? No, they were just the ones that I liked and just tried it. You eat cold oatmeal in the morning? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, a lot of it, actually, I mean, I have in the past. I don't carry any oatmeal anymore. You don't drink coffee? No. Goose shots with double caffeine. Oh, so you get around that. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. I just try not to cook very much because I found that cooking in the dark is a pain in the ass. It always, I don't know. I would rather just be going to sleep because typically by the time it's dark, what in Montana, 9, 10 o'clock, well, it's not quite that late, maybe in Alaska, but point being is rather be climbing into the tent.

And so then if you're cooking in the evening hours before it gets dark, that's prime time to be behind the glass. So I just found it was easier to try to get that stuff taken care of during the middle of the day when maybe it's not as good a hind. And then the same thing in the morning. Get up, throw something in your pocket, and get after it wherever. Get to your glassing spot.

As opposed to figuring out how you're going to cook something. Yeah, breakfast is pretty easy to eat that way. While you're glassing, start snacking. Next thing you know, it's noon. Yep. Yeah, I just try to make it as low maintenance as possible. Man, you wouldn't like our setup. We got mayonnaise, mustard, sandwich thins, ham, cheese.

Yeah. That sounds nice. I like to try to get the food in, man. Yeah. I know there's certain things where I think everybody breaks in their own direction when it comes to what warrants being carried. And what's enjoyable because ultimately we go out there because we want to have fun.

And so if somebody isn't having fun because, you know, food or whatever it is. They just can't do cold mountain house for four days in a row. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because psychologically, man, that's kind of my happiest part of the day, actually.

Yeah. My happiest part of the day is having some house. Yeah yeah and it's not always that way especially the elk hunting in montana or you know where you have that stuff but on the longer hunts the sheep hunts you know when the weather is a little bit more of the fall and not winter i don't know it just the warm meal hasn't been as much of a priority. Yeah. Gotcha. Do you bring any, you don't bring any kind of fruit or anything, right? Apples and stuff because.

No, dried. Dried fruit. You know, a lot of, you know, a lot of the stuff has dried fruit in it. Yeah. And there's some really good bars out there. I don't know if you guys have ever had the green belly meals. No. Man, we've had every bar on the planet, but I never heard of that one or thought I had

every, every bar on the planet. I'll tell you, they or thought i had every every bar on the planet i'll tell you they're the shit they're so good um what's it called green belly order them online order them online yeah that guy runs a really cool business and uh we'll pull out like we'll have an assortment man we got like kind pro i can't even name them all. Tons of them. Well, these ones are cool. Old schoolers. Yeah.

They come with two bars in each pack, and they're 600 calories. And the guy went through, for the two of them it is. So, I mean, it's a meal replacement as much as it is a snack. But they are balanced fats, fats proteins and carbs 33 across the board and so it's a really well-rounded and he has a cool story on the background i'll probably butcher it if i try to tell you yeah because you know what i was really excited about it but if there's a if it's a bar that has like the story written on the bag and it's nauseatingly cute no no it's not cute he's an ultralight guy okay because now and then like you'll read like every guy that came out with a bar feels like he needs to put like a very cutesy

like why i make these bars well or the marketing team that he picked up yeah and so we'll sometimes sit around we don't have any books to read. We'll just read those bar bags. And now it's like, oh my God. It's like a whole other type of literature, man. Yeah. It all started when old mom... I just give you the bar, bro.

So no coffee, no vias. Drink a little tea at night. You're running cold. you're cold camping. Man, tough little bastard. No, it's really not that bad. Yeah, you know what? After two days into it, you're like, yeah.

That's what I was going to, I was just going to bring that point up. You quickly get used to whatever situation you made. Yeah. You get used to whatever situation you made yeah yeah you get used to it but at the same time you're already bringing some fuel anyway yeah it's like a dinky bit more to be able to warm up your food at night yeah yeah and not to say that i you know that i don't or that you know if time allows or you're in a good you know spot but i plan on not doing it yeah it's kind of as i go through a lot of times we'll eat house um right pre-evening glass session yeah that's a great doing early dinner like you might hit some like four o'clock you might hit a four o'clock house right yeah and then

yeah like you said it's late and it's kind of shitty to go to bed on a full belly so that way then you just have like you know maybe another half a bar on your way to the tent and yeah we'll go out for an evening glassing session and actually grab some water grab a stove get up there get settled in have a sack of, and then kind of wrap up your couple hours of prime time, and then you just roll down and have a candy bar or something to go to bed. That's some pleasurable evenings, man. It is. Sitting behind the glass with your food and-

Steaming up the lens. Yeah, knowing that you're not going anywhere. Until the one out of 10 times when all of a sudden you find what you're looking for and you're like okay drop everything now what do i do yeah so do you um when you're going on a long hunt what do you what's your theory on binoculars and spot and scope i think it depends on the country so when when i was hunting alaska i went very lightweight on both so i was uh i wasn't as concerned with glass in alaska as i am here in in montana on these hunts just because picking out a white sheep on black rock is different than it is yeah it is and it's a little bit different and and you know uh i didn't feel confident shooting a ram on age so i did i didn't feel like i was going to be in a spot trying to count rings um and so yeah i i would bring something lighter

that was middle of the road on a spotting scope and just some lightweight binoculars. I had some little Leica pocket binoculars and, um, you know, it was just enough to scan around as you moved. And it was, you know, it's just a different program. You're not trying to pick sheep out of the timber. You're, you're, you're trying to make sure, you know, that you don't make a mistake when you come up over a ridge so you know a quick scan to make sure that you know you're not going to be exposed and and then once you got in a spot your glassing was more organized you had more time you were getting to a spot you'd set up your spotting scope you know it's just much different than hunting through montana where your view is changing all the time and you're you kind're kind of always seem to behind your glass, make sure you don't blow something out.

And so, you know, but that being said in Montana, um, this time I'll be carrying a Swarrow 85 and, you know, that's, that's what I've carried on these hunts and then go a little bit lighter on,

on the binoculars. It's like a big bruiser of a spot. A big bruiser of a spotting scope. And that's where I'm spending a majority of my time is I set up the spotting scope, the glass, and then, yeah. And really you just one eyeball it all day long yeah you don't get oh i hate that man well yeah it gets old but you know there's there's so much don't you feel like you'd be more effective just just running like a pair of 10s or 12s and just picking off movement with a bigger field of view and more

comfortable less eye strain yeah yeah i think when things are moving you probably would be but the problem is you spend a lot of the day looking in spots where you're just trying to pick out anything an ear uh you know a rump uh you know you're trying to find bedded animals as you move down through um yeah you know because they spend a lot of time in the timber and so yeah you're absolutely right if if you're glassing for things that are feeding in the evening and they're in the morning something that's on the move and you're trying to cover a lot of country i think behind a pair of binoculars would be way better but and and it depends on the distance too you know a lot of those canyons you know you might be glassing you know close to a mile away trying to pick something out yeah and that's tough

when you uh when you were hunting doll sheep a lot were you did you spend a lot of time or did you just kind of skim through everything i sk skimmed. I think that was the thing that I really liked about it was that it was a lot higher paced. You're just covering ground, and that was the key. Covering ground, getting to places you can glass. Move to the next spot, opposed to when you're hunting these animals that are in the timber, you'll walk right by them.

I proved that. Right. And so, you know. How did you prove it? Tell us that story. Well, the same area that I'm going into right now is the first place I hunted 10 years ago. And I didn't see a sheep. And, you know, and that's because I was, I just hunted it like, you know, like we did

doll sheep, you know, try to get elevation, cover as much country as you can, spend the time through the glass and just systematically move through areas. But you couldn't, you had to spend a lot more time in one spot, I think, if you want to find animals. And so you're saying you proved it by not finding one. I proved it by not finding anything. Yeah. Now knowing that they were there.

Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure I walked by sheep. How many, what's your thoughts on cubic inches for a backpack? Because you got a plan on being able to pack that sheep back out. Yeah. Well well i think that that's that was kind of where my designs came from for backpacks was not having to figure that out

so size your bag to the size of your gear you don't have to size it to the gear plus food if you don't want to because you can carry the gear in the load shelf but now you always have the designated spot for the load shelf for the meat for your pack out, meat and horns. So instead of having to carry a 7,500 cubic inch bag, now maybe you only need to carry 4,500 or 4,000 cubic to fit all of your gear and food. And then you always know that you have that 2,500 to 3,000 cubic inches of space designated when you separate the pack away from the frame and the load shelf yeah and you don't have to

worry about it and you know on the flip side you can do the same thing which i've done is to carry all the food in the load shelf in the in the same bag that you'd carry meat out in and you know as soon as you get to camp everything's organized you just pull the bag out take what you need keep moving or you know in in wilderness areas where you're required to sling the food in the tree everything's already organized you just pull it out head up the tree keep moving do you not bring a um do you not bring a trash bag liner? I don't. Yeah, because, man, nothing keeps blood. There's no, short of that, nothing keeps blood out of everything. No, but that's why if you have it in the load shelf, you never worry about it.

Just let it go. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's part of the design is the fact that the load cell that you put the meat in, the blood can drain so you don't get you know especially in alaska i mean if you have 60 70 80 degree days you get that coagulated blood in the bottom that the meat's just sitting in it's constantly moist you know just great place to grow bacteria and you know taint meat so allowing the meat to drain just drain out the bottom of the bag and then you know in between the bag and the frame the back side of the bag is hydrophobic

material x-packs so you don't ever get any migration of the you know of the blood or any sort of uh anything that can contaminate your your gear so now you don't need that before you started stone glacier what was the backpacks you were messing around with um i played with quite a few different ones mostly the internals so you know i had some arcteryx i had some north face but just regular mountaineering bags. But it wasn't long before I figured out that they just didn't quite have enough stability. Once you got 100 plus pounds in them, you get a lot more roll and shift out. They didn't have as many compression straps as the hunting packs had, but they were lightweight. They were comfortable. And so that's what I did a lot of hunting lot of hunting with but there you're back in the same spot now you're

putting the meat in right right in there right in there so you know it creates a tough situation yeah that's where you see the limitation of the pack because on those packs you know what you're going to be carrying yeah and you know it's only going gonna get lighter yep as you eat your food there's never the thing of like oh man you know yeah what could happen if you get lucky yeah yeah and how that's gonna go yeah and you're like trying to tie junk to the outside and just a mess yeah yeah it is a mess it can be a mess yeah if you don't but, so that's kind of the point is size the bag to the gear and your food, what you need at the time, and let the load shelf soak everything else up. Yeah, yeah.

How many rounds you bring with you? I usually bring about 10. Really? So you're pretty heavy on rounds. Yeah, yeah. And I think that we all realize that we run 13. I think we all. Because you got a couple in the magazine, three in the magazine,

and then you grab one of those. Sleeves. Yeah, you grab a sleeve and throw it in. You know, that's a really good point. I think we might have talked about this last time, and I think I might have said 13 because I'm trying to remember if I was counting the 10 total or 10 and then three. So, yeah.

But I'm less. I usually just carry two. Whatever my gun is, I'll have like two mags full. I'll have my gun full, and then I'll have enough in my pocket to reload. Here's my thinking. My thinking is that what's always in my head, it never doesn't happen,

is that you're going to fall bad and be like, man, I got to fire a couple rounds to check my zero. Yep. Have a problem there. Need to fire a couple more. And then you're going to have to shoot some rocks in front of a grizzly bear to scare them off.

And then you're going to be like, dude, I only got two rounds yeah what if something goes wrong yeah right so that's kind of like oh how i think about it and i always like try to keep them i'll always put them in a couple different places like i'll put a couple of my magazine i stick one in my bino harness and then i put my other one somewhere else so i sort of have like like system, like a redundancy system. Yep. If I remember right, you're the one that,

you're running 300 wind, right, for sheep? At the time, I was running a 378 Weatherby in Alaska. Some giant gun. Yeah. So have you lightened up your rifle? Yeah, yeah. I have a 300 Weatherby now. Still a lot of medicine for a sheep.

It is, but boy, with these VLDs and just the accuracy and the lack of wind drift and the energy that it carries downrange. Right. Yeah. So you're prepared to shoot long range. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't shoot too far. Conditions would have to be just right. Was too far? I think it depends on the conditions.

No. In the perfect conditions, you're feeling good. I think in the perfect conditions, no you know i feel i feel confident out to 600 yeah um you know i've shot elk at that range before uh the sheep i got down there before was at 400 felt confident with that so yeah i mean if everything's right but i think that that's where it plays in you know you have to make that call what are the gear categories we got for like backpack hunts man uh we haven't touched on uh trekking poles you carry a trekking pole i do i i carry it that um petzel used to make us they call it a snowscopic so it's yeah i know that one yeah

yeah i carry that and then typically one trucking pole so you carry that snow stoppick like this even now yeah down here yeah well on sheep hunts i do it's it's just so handy to have around you know just because uh you know clearing out rocks or trying to get a campsite ready or, you know, I mean, if you just find, if you can find a wet spot in the hill where you have some moisture coming out, you can dig in there and get a puddle and just, you know, come back a couple hours later and, you know, a lot of times you'll have water that you can get to.

So I just, just having that little bit of an ice axe is, it's, I found it a really useful tool. You just towed it in your hand. Yeah, you just use it just like a trekking pole. Yeah, no, I own one of those things. Oh, do you? Yeah. It's funny you mention that because I remember hunting sheep,

digging through rock piles, trying to find water. You can hear it. Yeah. And it kind of drives you crazy, man. You can hear it down there somewhere, but you just can't dig it out you can't get to it yeah it's kind of maddening man because you're like dude we could save a lot of walking if we could find where this water is i know deep underground yeah kurt was telling me when we shut down for a second earlier um about a good little trick with trekking poles is taking this double-sided Velcro. It's got like the hook and loop on one side and then the – no, I'm sorry.

That is the hook, right, is the hard part, and the loop is the soft part. But anyways, just wrapping it, you know, like two-thirds of the way up, wrapping your two poles together, and then just X-ing them and unbelievable shoot and rest. Oh, for shoot and rest, yeah. Yeah. You bring a tripod? I do, yeah.

Yeah, but my tripod, you know, it's kind of back to the same thing that we were talking about with layers, and, you know, my tripod's set up with Picatinny rail, so I can put my, I can shoot off of it. It'll attach to the Picatinny rail on my rifle. I have one on my spotting scope. I have a little adapter for my camera.

So everything will slide right into the one piece. And it'll adjust from 9 inches up to 54 inches. So it gives you a wide range. What's the tripod weigh? it's right at two pounds yeah my tripod's heavy but i love it man yeah i think that that's and that's a tough thing because you know my the spotting scope weighs over four pounds i think four pounds four ounces or something so it's a heavy spotting scope for a small tripod. So you can't get it too high in the air. But, you know, typically in those conditions, you're glassing, you're on an angled piece, you know, on an angled hill,

so you can set the tripod right between your legs. And it's an angled eyepiece, so it just sits right here in your chest. So, you know, it's not, you don't have to get it up real high. So it's a different program than I think if, say, if you're out, you know, trying to find mule deer and had to get up above the sagebrush

and had to have a tall spotting scope. Right. And you don't get any shake with that lightweight tripod? Not if I keep it low. Keep it low. Not if I keep it low. And, you know, normally you're kind of just right there on top of it, so you're blocking the wind. But yeah, you know, it's not as stable as and you know normally you're kind of just right there on top of it so you're blocking the wind but yeah you know that it's not as stable as you know carrying a four or five pound

tripod that's for certain yeah i think my head and legs come in right just shy of four pounds are they really that heavy yeah makes how the hell heavy is mine i wonder this is roughly the same might be a little bit more i Man, I like that thing. Yeah. Love it. It's a quality of life issue, man. See, that's it. That's it.

Like being able to do some power glass, and you know, where it's just like everything's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because if your glass is not steady, it's hard to... Hard to stay in the game.

It's hard to stay in the game. Yeah. Do you bring a... Do you bring a do you bring um a tarp beside your tent no i don't sometimes we do but for this i wouldn't yeah no because for this i feel like the tent's always going to be with me or pretty darn close usually the tarp comes with me if we're making like a base camp i know we're gonna be out for the day yeah does the guy the the you check uh the pilot we're flying in with he doesn't let you have canisters or does he does he does how could that be like a thing where they

probably shouldn't talk about because maybe he's not supposed to i don't know the faa rules i don't know either you bring pepper spray no I don't know either. You bring pepper spray? No. And you're in Grizz country. Yep. Wow, and no pistol either? Or you have your rifle? I have my rifle, yeah.

No spray? No spray. Times are changing, man. Yeah. Yeah, don't you feel like they're getting thicker by the day around here? Yeah, yeah. I think we prove that every fall with all the encounters that happen just in and around gallatin county between that the madisons

multiple encounters every year when that big son bitch comes from you going i guess it'd be yeah your rifle's gonna be leaning against a tree man your rifle's gonna be 10 yards away leaning against a tree. I never leave it behind. I got caught in Alaska one time going down to the river to wash a pot out. Yeah. Got caught by a bear. Yeah.

Turned around and there was a bear on the other side of my tent, probably 40 yards away. Yeah. My rifle was laying up there. Yeah. Luckily he just kept on? No. Well, he dropped down and started it i mean he wasn't

charging i don't know what he was doing but he was running at me and he was looking at me and then he stopped at about 20 yards and as soon as he ran towards me i know they say you're not supposed to run but i you know i ran towards my rifle you know they're like there was only a couple of things i was running towards him he was running towards me and he stopped at about 20 yards and stood up and uh right about time i got to my rifle and he was just trying to catch wind i just don't think he knew what was going on right but there was no doubt that had he chose that he wanted me he would have had me and uh yeah just kind of felt lucky. I keep it a little closer.

That's the point of the story. Yep. My brothers were hunting doll sheep and they're sitting there by their tent and all of a sudden up over the hill comes tearing at them. A wolf comes tearing at them. At first he's like, what in the world? But then like over the hill, because he's running because there's a grizz hot on his trail, man.

Oh, jeez. And then they both saw him and spun off in different directions. But yeah, that stuff can catch you by surprise, man. Yeah, for sure. So no pistol, no spray? For many, many, many years, I did the same thing. But now, after having like, after, you know, now I just don't think

that uh i don't think that the rifles really i think there's certain times when the rifle's reliable but when you sit there and you got a load of meat and you got your rifle tied to the back your backpack pack but you might as well not even have that son of a bitch man yeah it doesn't happen like that it's it's generally in my hand most times. You use a sling, though. Yeah, yeah. I use a sling sometimes. Yeah.

Yeah. But if it's a tight area, I'll usually have it in my hands. You know, if I can't see, if I can't, if it's dark. Because it gets all scratched. I don't know. It's like a security blanket, you know? No, I know what you're saying. You're just happier walking around with it in your hand.

Anything we haven't touched on? Backcountry long hunt gear? You know, the only other thing that I was thinking about is just how when you're hunting with a partner, how your gear choice can change. Yep, because me and my bro will each have to only carry half. One guy carries the stakes and poles. how your gear choice can change. Yep. Because me and my bro will each have to only carry half. One guy carries the stakes and poles

and the other guy carries the tent body. Yep. Shit's nice. One spotting scope. One spotting scope, exactly. One tripod. One stove. Yep.

I don't know if I'm brave enough to do one rifle. We've done it. We've done it. It's like, give me that rifle. My turn. No, we've done that. Have you?

Mm-hmm. One guy has one rifle. You don't think anything about it? Yeah. Well, no. I know. My dad had a sheep tag last year, and we had talked about it. And he said, I'll just bring my rifle. You don't have to about it. And he said, I'll just bring my rifle.

You don't have to carry yours. And I said, I'll just bring it just in case. Well, we got in a hell of a snowstorm. And we thought we knew where these sheep were. And when we finally came up, they had moved up closer to us. And it happened really quick. And he took his rifle off, his sling, and his scope caps were gone. And it was just plugged, filled with snow.

And everything was. And fortunately, I had my rifle. Everything was set, handed it to him, and he had the shot. But if we had just his rifle, I don't know that it would have happened. Do you like scope caps you know i have i have a scope coat on on mine now neoprene a neoprene because uh you know all my scopes have the turrets on them and so you know it's just it's just another nice protection you don't accidentally get you know anything turned or just kind of tighter program.

I've messed around with every, I feel like I've messed around with every scope cap on the planet, man. I just think a neoprene cover. You like the caps, don't you? I've done it. You've used them in the past. Yeah, I'm a neoprene scope cover guy now i spent a lot of years like

when they first started coming out you know and like butler creek had those ones and the springs would break and the pins would fall out and you'd be trying to find the parts yeah in the snow or whatever and now i just like it's just like there's like an infallibility to a neoprene cover yep yep there definitely is you know another nice scope cover that i've used though is uh night force sends out they're kind of uh almost a rubber one that that goes on and that that's the only single piece one that i've used and i actually really like that one yeah yeah but i don't i don't know who makes it other than them. I just use the, I mean, there's like just a general, like Vortex has a general neoprene wand. You pull over.

It's pretty good, man. You know, for a while, I got so burned out on scope covers. We'd go down to the hardware store and get like PVC and cut it so you had the kind that had the reducer in so you could epoxy in a piece of plexiglass in there and then use bungee cord oh yeah and then you had like a one pound scope cover that was indestructible man indestructible and my brother made up a batch of those we use those for a while but now i just use like the neoprene cover and you just gotta be careful not to leave it laying it's actually the kind of thing you could bring two of

because like literally weighs i would say, literally nothing. Yeah, they are. You could grab. You could justify sticking an extra one in your kit, your little gear kit. Dude, I'm excited now to go home and go through all my junk, man. I kind of got a whole day set aside to pack. Something will come up.

I think it's funny. Something will come up, and I'll get messed up. But right now, I'm planning on it. I think it's funny. Something will come up and I'll get messed up. But right now, I'm planning on it. I think it's one of the funnest portions of, you know, getting ready.

The anticipation. Oh, yeah. Going through your gear and the planning. If it's not rushed. It's all part of the process. Yeah, as long as it's not rushed. But you got young kids.

You can't focus on anything. No, no. It's pretty accurate. How old are your kids? Five and seven. Yeah, I got one of each of those. Or five and eight. You can't focus. No, uh- can't focus no no it's after bedtime that's when that happens gear the gear messing yeah the gear messing but when you can do it right you're not just cramming stuff in a bag

it's pretty fun man it is get your gear dialed you thinking about it now yanni can't really get packed properly because your house is torn in half. Yeah, but luckily my little basement corner where my little zone is, my little man cave zone down there, it's kept up its neatness. I don't think you should call it a man cave because it's functional. Oh, man caves aren't functional? No, it's like a place where people go to watch TV. Yeah, I hear you.

You're right. But I think originally a man cave was usually in the garage. Like, that's the original man cave. But then it became a thing. Like, then man caves got messed up, where man caves all of a sudden became things that are... Trophy rooms. They became places where, like, you go down to be lazy. It should be a place where you go to, like, get your stuff dialed. Yeah.

Right? But it became a thing where you, got big couches and tvs yeah and it's like this place you go to be lazy while your wife's being lazy upstairs yeah like in your basement are your kids allowed in that room that we're podcasted in uh no right yeah like that little zone of mine i mean a lot of it is safety right like there's shit in there that they can get hurt with you know uh sharp things as well as you know other things but uh yeah like they're just not allowed to be in that zone so that's why it's like the man cave right i think you should call it the man zone man zone man zone yeah man room well yeah but look if my gal you know need i mean there's a bunch of tools and stuff in there too.

So if my gal needs anything out of there, she's more than welcome. As long as it gets put back in the right spot. Yeah, because I do a lot of fixing down there too. And one of the kids' things breaks, I go to the same zone that I pack in to repair, to glue their shit back together. Yeah. You know, to fix stuff. But it's kind of like mostly my garage setup like i'm not set up for like wrenching on old tractors and shit you know i mean i'm set up for like working on outdoor gear

yeah i'm like my primary thing is like i'm rigged for gear yeah i can mount a rifle scope yeah so yeah stuff like that i'm saying you know i don't have like a three-quarter inch drive ratchets down there and stuff like that for you some Alice Chalmers or something. It's just not where I'm at when it comes to tooling. And you're the only guy I know that has a big sewing machine in his gear room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a rarity. It is rare. That's next level. It is. It's fun. Yeah. It's the best part about it. You know what?

I knew one other guy that had that. I don't know if it was in his man zone, but old man, I hope you're listening. I hope you're still alive. There's a chance that he might not be alive. Really? He might be dead? Donnie the Wild Man. Oh, I've heard a lot of stories about this guy.

What was Donnie's last name now? Why is it not McConnell? Yeah, because he sewed into his vest a pistol holder. Well, it was like a leather jacket. You know, not... Like a biker? Kind of like a biker. Yeah, I guess you could have...

If you'd have just seen Donnie on the street, you could have thought that he was getting ready to jump on a Harley. But yeah, he had all kinds. He had like a special pocket for like cigarettes. Probably had another pocket for the second pack of cigarettes. His auxiliary smokes. For a coke can in there and yeah for his giant 44 mag he had one of those like i think it was the rocky mountain special you remember that one it's like the even the uh the cylinder had no grooves cut out of it so it was like added weight to the pistol

how can we make it heavier? And yeah, he had the pocket sewn in for that thing. But he was like that. He was a guy that got like tinkered with stuff. Yeah, you probably would have got along with him. He just like, they called him the wild man, right? But I remember him buying- Yeah, and he was saying at nighttime, he would do nothing to prepare for bed.

Yeah. He would just lay down. A lot of times. In his clothes. And sleep in his clothes and wake up and sit back up again. Prepare for bed. He'd put his cigarette out. And lay down.

And then he'd wake back up and just light it. Yeah, light it. Crack a Coke. Go. Boots on and everything. He'd be like, can I use that bunk? No, that's Donnie's bunk well there's no shit there there's no sleeping bag yet donnie doesn't need any of that stuff no i remember him

buying like a brand new arctic cat you know i don't know how those things are five to ten thousand dollars right i don't know how much snow machine snow machine yeah brand new next thing i'm by the time i got to see it in his garage the seats ripped off it's been chopped in half the the um he's got like the whole, I don't know what you call it, but like the thing that metal piece that goes around the seat where you like put your feet on

and it kind of extends behind the seat. And he's just drilling holes through it. Because he was lightening the whole thing. So it had a seat that like you could just fit like maybe two people on. Well, he cut it down to a seat that fit a half a person. The whole thing was full of holes. And he sew it down to a seat that fit a half a person. The whole thing was full of holes. And he sewed a new leather seat that fit this.

So he had skills, but he was the wild man. And did it look good, or did it look like someone was hacking away at it? Oh, no. Looked good? Yeah. My old man hung out with guys. They were gear tinkers, but it wasn't like they were trying to make shit light for wandering around in the mountains for a week at a time they were uh yeah they were tinkers like um making your own ice

fishing shanties making your own charcoal grills you know but any kind of like building stuff right like building outdoor equipment but big shit so these guys were at the thing where they had like welders and stuff you know or smelters or i mean like weird kind of stuff but there's this thing that makes people want to go and mess with something i never look at uh you know i never look at be like man i'm gonna go devise some new way to like heat an ice shanty right but i think there's people have a proclivity right they have a tendency to want to go jury rig stuff do you know that jury rig and jerry rig are interchangeable you knew that i did kitty corner caddy corner no one knows what one's right yeah what do you think about that kirk is that an east coast west coast thing i don't think so

i don't know. Tomato, tomato thing. Yeah. Any other final? Well, yeah. No, because it's different than pronunciations right down to the spelling. Caddy Corner and Kitty Corner. Nothing?

Hunting with a partner, you were saying? Oh, yeah. No, I think you hit on that. Just that. Change of stuff. Yeah. But you're a solo man. How many sheet punts have you done by yourself?

I don't know, actually. But yeah, probably since 2000. Just a bad mofo out wandering around the mountains by yourself. Eating cold shit at dinnertime. No, no. No bear spray. No bear spray. Hugging his rifle all night.

No, it was just out of necessity. Eating cold gravel. When you're taking those chunks of time, a lot of times it's tough to line up schedules and people want to go into the same areas. That's really how it started. Some dude came to you and said, hey man, I want to throw in with you on your sheep hunt this September.

You'd probably say no. That's what my brother's thing is. I don't know. I'm going to pitch him right now. I'll be like, look man. You can't go do that. I'll carry enough fuel so we can eat hot shit every night yeah we'll split the weight of our shelter and our spot and scope and i'll even carry an extra pair of socks and undies for you do i get to shoot first yeah in a unit where one sheep closes the quota.

Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, my brother who could out-lonely you. He might not out-lonely you, but he could comp you on loneliness, lonely tolerance. He just likes not having to consult. What do you think? I don't know. What do you think? Yeah.

Think we should go over there? I mean, he's happy to hunt with people but he sees the upside it's not like he you know he just sees the upside of being by himself in that just not having to well and he's mentioned

that right there he's like I never have to worry about who's shooting first yep I'm always up yeah exactly so but anyways

if some dude came to you and said and it's a friend of yours not some stray wildcat right but some dude came to you and said hey I want to throw in I was thinking about going to the same place anyway would you be like maybe i'll bump into you or would you then say you know what let's let's coordinate no if it was a good friend i'd yeah i'd welcome it okay you know it so you're not

you're not like pushing you're not pushing your best friends no no no no not by any not by any respect i mean yeah i have lots of good friends that you know we go on hunts you know throughout you're not pushing your best friends. No, no, no, no, not by any, not by any respect. I mean, yeah, I have lots of good friends that, you know, we go on hunts, you know, throughout the year, whether it be elk or,

or any of that. I, I just think that you kind of have to find somebody, especially on a hunt like this, that's willing to take what time you have for the year. Because, you know, for all of us between,

you know, work and family and all that, being able to take 14 days and go possibly on a hunt where you're not going to fill the freezer. A lot of people don't want to do that. Yeah, it's not a freezer filler. No, especially when we have so much great elk hunting all around here. Is your wife mad at you about the 14 days?

No. Not even kind of a little bit? No, but it hasn't happened yet. So when you come back, when you come back, is it going to be the kind of a little bit? No, but it hasn't happened yet. So when you come back, when you come back, is it going to be the kind of thing where everybody's like, oh my God, he's home.

It's so great. Or will it be that you come in and it's kind of like, oh, hey, can you take care of this? It depends if I come back with a sheep. Oh, sheep backers that in? No, no. But I think that there is a part of that

where you know when you spend that much time you want to be successful but uh it's also nice knowing going into it that that really isn't the expectation you know it's it's really more about the adventure and you know taking that time and you know figure out another way to fill the freezer yeah because doll sheep too man mean, they're not that big. No. They're not freezer fillers. No. No, not by any stretch.

But it's pretty high quality. It is. I think it's... Oh, I think this is the best. Yeah, a lot of guys in Alaska regard it as the finest, right? It is. Yep. But it's just a lot more.

It's about a lot more than that, man. It's not like outfilling door tags. It's just a whole different deal. It is. Yeah. It's a lot more. It's about a lot more than that, man. It's not like outfilling dough tags. It's just a whole different deal. It is. Yeah. It's a whole different deal. It's just doing something that you have to be paying total attention to, man, and being a little bit vulnerable all the time.

Yeah. And being like, there is no real, there's really no getting lucky. Mm-mm. No, and it takes you out of your comfort zone. And so that's the one thing that i found about those types of adventures is every time you push yourself that becomes a new norm so uh you know you're you're looking to advance you're looking to stay longer or get farther in or go by yourself or whatever your next step is you know you can there's never a finite finish line yeah there's a there's always

something that you can add to it there's always some other way that you can challenge yourself i think it's kind of the cool part about it for sure yeah yeah the new norm yeah cold food yeah lonely nights you can learn how to deal with that you can learn how to deal with a lot man it's not that bad yeah no you make it sound fun uh yeah any final gear thoughts i don't have any you tapped yeah what's tearing me up is my bringing my... Down booties? No, I'm cool on that. But my trekking pole with the ice axe head stuck to it.

So I thought it was a mountain goat hunting tool. Man, no. Yeah. It's kind of got me thinking. Having to excavate it. I think there's a chance too that we're going to cross some glaciers. So we might want to think about having more than just one with us. Yeah, Danny probably carries one, my brother.

All right, sir. Yanni's good. No last thoughts? I'm good, man. All right. I hope you come back and your wife's like, oh, my God, he's home. I love him so much. Me too.

And not like, you'll never guess what. You'll never guess what the kids did all right thanks you Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now, the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps

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