The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 144: Tough-Assed Questions

Episode Date: November 26, 2018

Bozeman, MT- Steven Rinella talks with Outdoor Life’s shooting editor John Snow, Jon Edwards of Schnee’s, Pete Muenich of Stone Glacier, and Phillip Larson, along with Janis Putelis of the MeatEater crew.Subjects Discussed: The tension between hunters and shooters; scent dogs pinging Willie Nelson’s tour bus and other antics of outlaw country’s finest; the last word on Andrew McLean’s public land treestand theft; Australian mugs #1 and #2 explain Kangaroo hunting; another misguided attempt from an animal rights activist; how much shooters actually contribute to Pitman-Robertson; your most vexing questions answered; speaking of hunting public land: the ethics of killing, shock gobbles, and encountering other hunters; how to gear up on a budget or just shut up and go hunting; and more. Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are

without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. We put the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. The Meat Eater Podcast. You can't predict anything. Everyone's familiar with the expression, six and one half?

No. Six and one, right? Six and one. Yeah. A half dozen and the other. Yanni just has truncated it. He's shortened it to where when there's a thing, when there's a decision to make and going left and going right,

there's no difference. He'll say it's just sixes. But I can't take credit for that. Oh, you can't? No, no, no. I thought you invented that. No, no, no. The reason I bring it up is we have a full house right now,

so I feel like you should do some intros. Oh, I'm going quickly that's a good idea that's a good that's a good segue yeah i think with the a lot of times when you do the introductions it takes way too long but as you like to do dealing cards i'll start off to my left with mr john snow who now is the let me get it right shooting editor for both outdoor life and Field and Stream? It's a lot of shooting. Nailed it. That's correct. A lot of guns.

A lot of guns. From Bozeman. John Edwards, owner of Schnee's. Bozeman as well. Mr. Steven Rinella. Pete Munich, the sales manager from Stone Glacier. You got it. Is that what you do down there?

I do. You wear a lot of hats. I feel like they got to give you a bigger business card. Just hand out full pieces of paper. Yeah, just 8 1⁄2 by 11. Just hand out resumes as I travel around. And Phillip Larson, and I don't know your title, at Black Gold Archery, but it is.

Well, right now I'm doing the design work, but I've been there for 15 years so i've also wore quite a few hats over the years i've done yeah when we go visit design work that's all i do rattle off what you guys make down there tight spot tight spot uh quivers we do uh ripcord aris and then black old bow sights and so if you've seen a black old product from any of those companies in the last 10 years, I drew it. I have none of that shit on my bow. Isn't that weird? I do, man.

I do, man. It's awesome. Here you sit, and here's my, you know. I'm going to take my new rig over, though, and we're going to go over it. Yeah. We'll have to change that. You did help me get souped up, though. Mm-hmm.

Made sure everything was ready to go. I'm going man yeah we can do that i'm gonna make an accessorizing appointment my father will be so happy now he can't stand listening when he doesn't know who's talking this will be a much better experience i like it because it builds tension when you can't tell who's talking very suspenseful did you guys i don't know if you guys caught this this is good where so a dude's a dude in florida is fishing near clearwater and uh and an animal rights activist who is apparently coming from a protest at a fast food restaurant so he's like he him and his boy are leaving a fast food restaurant protest. He's already fired up. Right? So he's jacked up. And he stumbles across some dude on a pier who's fishing.

He's got a tilapia. So the dude's got a tilapia laid out on the pier. Which is funny because he's got a non-native, like a deleterious exotic, right? Like a non-native fish laid out on the pier. I thought he got that at Costco. And this dude, the animal rights guy freaks out and grabs his fish. Grabs the fish and hucks it

back in the water. And this is, I'm going to make a shirt that says this because the animal rights guy throws the tilapia in the water and yells, according to bystanders, he yells, call the police. I just saved a fish's life. And the cop comes out and arrests him and finds him 500 bucks.

For showing the dude's thing back. He's probably already dead too. Yeah. He wasn't doing keeping wet. If it sounds like he had it laid out. He's laying on the pier for an hour. On the pier. My buddy Nephi wrote in with this.

This is interesting. If you boys aren't familiar, we're just doing a little if you boys aren't familiar we're just doing a little recap news recap things that mugs write in about people getting all mad about stuff we said that wasn't correct um hunters right especially these days they're always yakking up um the significance of our contributions to the wildlife restoration program pitman robertson fund my buddy nefi um writes in and he this is some older numbers but no one ever compiled them before like i said like hunters are always like oh hunters do all this good you know through excise taxes charged on firearms and ammunition the the money that goes to wildlife. So I should back up. When you buy archery equipment, you buy firearms, you buy ammunition, assorted other things, even boat gas, right, and some marine boat gas,

there are excise taxes that you pay. And these excise taxes go to wildlife restoration programs. So they pay for wildlife. And it's been, you know, these programs have been funding wildlife for 80 years to the tunes of billions of dollars. The Pittman-Robertson Fund is the one that comes from ammunition and firearms. And of the money that comes in of firearm sales dollars, so the excise taxes on firearms, only 20%

can be assigned to hunting purposes. Wow. 80% are from non-hunting shooters. That's a lot of shooting. 80%. So it should be like the little old ladies who have a pistol for personal protection should be like, Pittman Robertson, a pistol for personal protection should be like, Pittman Robertson, bro.

But it's like hunters are talking up all the time. Only 20% comes from hunters. That's right. And there's a big tension there between hunters and shooters. Because if you read the act, we talk about it going to wildlife. But it specifically says in there for also shooting range development and this has been a burr under the saddle of a lot of shooters over the years who feel like that they're not getting their fair shake in that equation and they've actually got a really really good point yeah they have a good point um i understand it it's like one of those things

you know those situations you remember there's like right and wrong and what you hope right so there's like right and wrong be like oh yeah you look at that like you look at those numbers well just to follow up on that so that was firearms ammunition 26.6 percent hunting purposes 73.4 for non-hunting purposes so a little bit of a slightly different but basically the same thing in terms of like what's right and wrong and then your hopes it's like yeah you look at the right and wrongness they should have a big seat at the table shooters right around shooting facilities whatnot um but dude i hate to like like i hate to starve the wildlife funds right yeah no you don't you don't want to do that but i think this is something

this is part of a bigger conversations about where our world is no talking you know because hunters need shooters for exactly this reason you know the shooters are the ones who are carrying the freight to help us pay for these conservation programs you know likewise I think shooters need hunters in terms of just the general issue over gun rights and gun access and everything else. I think hunters play a key role in that. But it's this dynamic where sometimes these two populations are squaring off against each other. And I think a slightly deeper look shows that there's really a a mutually necessary kind of relationship that needs to be fostered but from the shooter standpoint you know we as hunters i'm also a shooter but have to maybe give them a little bit more of a place at the table

and give those issues because if people don't have places to shoot they ain't gonna hunt either yeah i agree i mean i think it's a symbiotic relationship for sure. But I think, correct me if I'm wrong, the Pittman-Robertson Act was originally enacted for the purpose of restoring wildlife. The Wildlife Restoration Act. It is, but you read the language. It says shooting range development right in it

in the original act. From Franklin Roosevelt, that original act. Like from the Rooseveltosevelt yes administration absolutely because what i was going to say is it's it's not static i mean it could very well be that that we need some new legislation or something to address some of the needs of the shooting community that are not necessarily it's it's already it's already in there i mean the you know the thing is is that and you know you kind of think about it, how many hunters do you know? Oh, I'm on the same box of Remington Coral Ox I've been using for five years. It's like you buy 20 shells and it's like, this is good for 10 years.

One to check my zero and one to hunt. Thanks for pulling on the oars, buddy. We appreciate your support. As opposed to the guy who's buying ammo cans cans of 223 every other week and just you know hosing down steel at the target that's the guy who's financially contributing i knew listen it was a shock to me when i read it this morning i knew like i i if you'd have had me lay it out i probably i wouldn't have laid it out at that i would have laid it out at like uh i wouldn't have gone 50 50 but i wouldn't have gone 80 20 i would have been somewhere in the i've been out 60 40 right so

you're saying for every dollar i spend as a hunter someone there's four other dollars being spent by target shooters yeah for every dollar that every dollar years that winds up into the wildlife restoration fund a shoot well shooters shooters so recreational shooters target shooters defensive handgun that what's the what's the data on the overlap there because yeah here in montana you're too i'm looking at at matt miller and we uh you know we just joined this awesome new shooting facility in three forks mont Montana, that Glenn Demare is running. But there's got to be a tremendous overlap between shooters and hunters, at least out west.

Oh, especially in Montana, too. Well, I think that they're trying to pull out. Of course, there's different people. I think they're kind of pulling out what the purpose was for. So, okay, so ammunition and firearms combined. Here's the real, okay. So I was giving you the numbers when they separated out, but Nephi also sent the numbers were just separated out but nephi also

sent the numbers for combined combined 22.5 percent can be assigned to hunting purposes in the remainder 77.5 percent to non-hunting purposes they were not it was not possible to here's interesting it was not possible to assess archery sales. Lord knows how they do this. I'll get clarity. I'll get some clarification, and I'll try to explain how the NSSF pulled up these figures. I'm doing something with the NSSF right now around their Child Safe Storage Program,

which is going to be launched pretty soon. We were talking about trail cams and how for a while we're talking about trail cams. And my feeling that even though I use them, my feeling that at some point we're going to wind up needing to have like a reckoning with trail cameras, the way it's the same way we had to have a reckoning with drones, right?

It was going to be that like in the not so distant future you're going to have all these live feed trail cameras and basically the temptation would be just like to hunt off like you could be out in the woods turkey hunting with and you got you know a dozen live feed cameras going and you just kind of scroll through and find out where you ought to walk over and you know know, set up, which is not, I mean, that's not far off at all. You can basically do it right now. Yeah, that already, that completely exists right now. Yeah, and my thing that like, not even, like, forget me advocating on it.

My prediction that state agencies are going to take steps to get out ahead of this. And a lot of guys wrote in to clarify that in Nevada, on public land, we'll get a bunch of notes about how I just said that word. In Nevada, on public land, no trail cams August 1st to December 31st. Montana was doing the same thing and quit doing it.

Just changed. They changed it back again? No, it just changed this year. It was legal, then during hunting was legal then it became illegal then it became legal god loved all that thinking yeah they're all over the map i mean it was it was as long as i've been here not legal to have cameras up during hunting season and now it is just became i remember when it became ill you were here before i was you know uh another thing we're talking about scent blockers this is

when we had mark kenyon from wired to hunt who's a frequent guest scent blocker stuff right deer stuff you spray on yourself so you don't smell to deer and okay this is two things we were talking about we're talking about scent blockers and then we were talking about uh how good dogs can smell and like what dogs smell and how dogs noses work so this is kind of a combo deal where another guy who works in canine units wrote in and he was saying when all the scent blocker shit came out all these sprays and all this in the canine world in the law enforcement canine world they started to get very concerned about what would be the implications of these

products on their ability to pursue suspects detect drugs oh you know what i was watching here and i just quick side note have you guys seen uh mike judge's tales from the tour bus dude it is the greatest it sounds good it's an animated series of all the outlaw country people. We got to get Pete on that. Waylon Jennings part one. Dude, it's like by the guy, Mike Judge. You did like Family Guy, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So they got like, it's on, you can buy it on iTunes. It's a Cinemax original, but I've been buying it on iTunes. And it's like, so it's Tammy Wynette and George Jones part one and two. Johnny Paycheck part one and two johnny paycheck part one and it's mostly about just the amount of drugs and gunplay that went on in that world and then waylon jennings part one and two every episode they're like is a every episode it's just the crazy shit those guys are up to but in it they're talking about one time they're going into

canada and willie nelson was so concerned about his tour bus that they stopped and had it steam cleaned and like ultra cleaned wow to get into canada and he said the guy says when the drug dog comes under willie nelson's bus it doesn't like smell around it just comes and sits down so it wasn't like we're on the bus it was the bus the whole damn vehicle so that leads me to the canine thing so he said they got real concerned about this um and he's saying they mixed results okay so with scent blockers the dogs always still found the items or persons when using scent blockers marketed to whitetail deer hunters and the time but the time was kind of minuscule he remembers one example with a dog trying to find a person

the dog normally could find the person in eight to ten second time range he calls this minuscule it's normally eight to ten second time range but with scent blockers it took one dog 40 seconds to find the person now if you're bow hunting dude that is an eternity yep from 10 to 40 is that would have for me meant a shot this year at a very nice buck a week ago but he goes to say some dogs showed zero effect there Some dogs' time was not affected. Here's the other funny part. Once you expose a dog to the scent blocker, there was zero impairment. They learned to deal with it very quickly.

They did determine, some agencies determined that the product confuses some dogs with their ability to seek out the location of the scent so they know it's there but locating it becomes different now scent covers where you're adding other highly potent scents or you infuse items and natural scents the animals are used to are more effective at disturbing a dog's ability more effective than scent scent blockers. But it does not stop the dog from doing their search. He spoke with a guy from the province of Alberta.

He spoke with a woman from the province of Alberta. And they've been looking at this too with all the different dog handlers and all the different agencies. And they determined that scent blockers pose zero risk when their dogs are searching.

As new products come out, they always test them on dogs. And a dog's nose isn't a deer's nose, but it still is kind of interesting, right? The woman from Alberta, who's a canine trainer, she pointed out that she's also an avid hunter. And from her look at it, she thinks that the worst thing you can do is wear a scent blocker because they're so popular. In her opinion, if deer do in fact become educated with sounds and seeing humans as a threat, she feels that deer are more likely to associate that very powerful smell with humans through exposure,

just like how dogs do. The blocker or the cover? Blockers. Because I didn't think the blocker or the cover blockers because i don't think the blockers was to smell like anything i thought i thought the second okay whatever one i might have mixed up somewhere whatever one is where you're doing added odors yeah you're acting like a pine tree or something yeah i've always been suspicious of those things ever since this was years ago when scent lock was first coming out and they made a big push. Because I don't think that those guys even believe in their products. Yeah, I can't speak to them.

Well, here's what happened. You mean the outfits that you put on? Yeah. The charcoal outfits? Yeah, the charcoal outfits. So anyway, this was this big thing, new tech, going to go try this out. Isn't this fascinating? Deer can't smell you. So anyway, I end up, they invite me on this hunt down to texas

and it's a classic texas hunt where i'm in a blind and as some mesquite patch with a shooting lane cutting cut down in a damn feeder 100 yards away yeah and i'm sitting there with the guy don't make this a dog we have listen can i interrupt sure turn it into a really nice thing about Texas. I've been getting a lot of emails from a lot of Texans who are like, you guys have no clue what you're talking about, and you're taking this enormous state where you've got guys hunting Sam Houston National Forest and knocking it out and hunting public land and busting their asses.

You've got guys out in the West Texas busting their asses, and all we're ever talking about is some dude in Texas in a 300-acre fenced area with corn. They're like, shut up. You don't know Texas. I will sing the praises of West Texas any day. East Texas too. It's great hunting, West Texas.

The rest of it, at least in my experience. So anyway. I'm going to start like a moratorium on dogging on Texas because I would like to read it, but it was like a book-length piece where a guy broke Texas into a bunch of regions and explained the hunting cultures in each region. And we have been doing a horrible job of pigeonholing Texas. Go on. Okay.

So anyway, I was in an undisclosed location with a lot of mesquite and a deer feeder. And sitting next to me was this- Sounds like Texas. The ScentLock guy who I was with is smoking cigarettes in the blind text to me. And I was just like, yeah, okay. I think I know everything I need to know now about scent lock. You sure it wasn't rolled alfalfa? It was like an alfalfa joint?

I'm pretty sure. So I've never been, and also I'm just lazy. I don't have time to do all that scent stuff. But didn't scent block, what was the clothes with the charcoal in it? That was scent lock, scent lock. Didn't they have a bit of an expose? Wasn't there an actual expose about Scent Lock? Does this ring a bell?

The thing is, there was also Dead Down Range. Remember that? The breath mints that are supposed to... I'm not saying this stuff is all snake oil, because I don't think they actually make it out of snakes. But I don't know. I've just never quite wrapped my head around that, because I've done scent work with dogs before, oil because i don't think they actually make it out of snakes but you know i don't know i i've just never quite wrapped my head around that because i've done scent work with dogs before

and it's amazing what they can pick up and the idea that we're somehow shielding off all this stink that we throw well and the the industry is always looking for a silver bullet and a lot of the guys that i know who are very successful hunters are just hard hunters you know it's like what's the next gadget what's the next thing what's the you know what's going to make me a better oh now I got this gum I can chew now you know or the set block or ozonics or anything like that a lot of the a lot of the old timers used to believe in campfire smoke yeah as a cover scent you know as a cover scent the the thing I've always wondered about is just the confidence factor so a guy goes out there with the new gizmo and all of a sudden now he's more confident does that helps help for the mark canyon wired to hunt approach which i appreciate

is he's like i don't know i don't know um but let's say i do all of these things which aren't that big of a deal they're not that hard for me to do, I do them all, and let's say one of them gives me 10% better chance, I'll take it. Because the things I'm doing I know aren't negative. Or if each one gives me 1% better, then they add up to 10%.

And that's what he talks about. He's like, here this guy is saying, oh, it's minuscule, 10 seconds, 40 seconds. Mark's like, maybe it gives me a second. Maybe it buys me a second yeah but not that big it's not hard for me to do these things but didn't the gal say maybe the deer get used to it you know and all of a sudden now it's working against you so yeah you pass that buck one year and next year he's like oh no that's the dude who tried to shoot me like he passed me

not this year this guy goes on to say as side note, his dog, the neighbor's dog. Okay, sorry. As a side note, his neighbor's got a Belgian Melon. How do you say that, Yanni? I don't know. Melon Mute? The Belgian Melonois. Oh, no.

Oh, Melonois. Yeah. This dog is trained in explosive location and suspect apprehension. This dog's so damn good that when he started messing around with a single pin slider for his bow and trying to get out to 100 yard mark, he's losing a fair bit of arrows.

He's saying you can take that that son of a bitch and dog and take another arrow out of your quiver and run that arrow under that dog's nose and that thing will go find your arrow. Two or three passes and it's got your arrow. That's pretty impressive. That's impressive, man. Or if it's smelling the human on it speaking of dogs tell yanni this is the yanni's this is the last we've been covering the the mclean yes tree stand stealer heavily

mclean this is the last we're gonna say about the tree stand stealer but it has to do with dogs so i want to roll it in you You guys familiar with this? No. Big, famous. Andrew McLean from, I think he's in Park City, which is right outside of Salt Lake City. This guy wrote a book about skiing. Now we're going to get in trouble again. How did the guy pronounce it?

I've almost seen a half dozen people telling you how to pronounce it. Wasatch. Wasatch. I would say Wasatch. Wasatch. Wasatch. I would say Wasatch. Yeah. Wasatch. Wasatch. Pete, you look like you're cocky about it.

Yeah, it's the Wasatch front. Yeah. So when you need to say it, pause, and Pete will say it. Yeah. Okay. You wrote a book about skiing the… Wasatch. Mountains.

And I wouldn't call him a famous skier, but almost famous. Anyways, he decided to, in his own words, clean up the woods around his house. With a bowl cutter. With a bowl cutter and stole two tree stands and a trail camera, but did not realize that the hunter had a second trail camera in the same location and thus caught andrew and his wife stealing the stands and packing them out of the woods on public land yeah totally legally placed thing but the real the reason i keep talking about this and it puts a real burn in my saddle is like there's people in the ski world and stuff who are like applauding

applauding him for this. Yeah. Which is public land did it legally. It was some hardware. I just watched Valley Uprising the other night and this one guy back in the 70s put a bunch of bolts in Yosemite and then this other climber that hated him went up the next week and busted every piece of hardware off the wall

in an effort to like make a statement that he didn't agree with putting this hardware into nature yep so this seems very similar yeah one was a tree stand one we're climbing bolts in yosemite but i think both legally placed yeah no it's like it pisses me off only because some people are acting like he's like dude we even had a guy who like just started hunting he's like i understand because hunters leave a lot of litter in the woods. Come on. But go ahead.

No, I thought you were going to finish it. No, you talked about the dog. And tell us now how the – oh, you want me to explain the whole story. Because we're talking about dogs. This is like supposed to be a slick segue. I know. I thought you were going to tell us that story. So how he ends up finding andrew and putting the pieces all

together is that they had their dog with them when they were doing this uh forest robbery and it was a burmese mountain dog bernie's mountain dog yeah and he figures it's not that many around all sort of cruise the neighborhoods around this trailhead that he most likely used and see if his dog pops up so he's cruising down the road sure enough there's a dog a dog rolling by himself no leash no owner he's like oh i'll just follow this burmese mountain dog he follows it down the road a little bit and he goes right up to the front door and opens the door there's andrew's wife he's like oh i recognize you for my trail camera pictures yeah yikes um okay another area i want to talk about we're talking

about a guy do you remember what state it was where the guy served the kangaroo meat nebraska a lot of feedback on this so dude that runs a hot lunch program in nebraska this is a long news segment is this the last bit of news no you know a dude like who runs a hot lunch program decides to buy some kangaroo meat and like cut it in with the beef oh god for whatever like why ever he thought it sounded like a good deal and um some kids i believe there's no way this is true some kids claim what they found out or the kids claim they have felt sick from the kangaroo meat.

Start jumping higher. Yeah, the basketball team started kicking ass. Basketball team started crushing. And the dude loses his job and we were talking about this news bit and we were wondering about the kangaroo market and a bunch of Australian guys wrote in, two in particular, wrote market and a bunch of australian guys wrote in two in particular wrote in with a lot of information about um kangaroo where kangaroo meat comes from there is no

uh there is no raising no one raises kangaroos for me they're all wild when you see kangaroo meat on the menu it's all wild shot wow now so mug one i picked there's two mugs that wrote in about this mug one and mug two mug one populations from 2011 uh in australia for macropods which are red kangaroos western gray kangaroos eastern gray kangaroos wallaroos and euros whatever the hell that is um within the commercial harvest areas there's over 34 million of them which uh and then in the cut in the continent at large 50 million macro pods in australia how many australians yeah he says greatly outnumbering the human population.

Now, Mug 2 is a commercial shooter. Sweet. Can I interrupt? We know a few kind of pro hunters from Australia. Do any of them hunt kangaroos? Probably not

because it's highly regulated. The hunting in Australia is generally for non-native generally for non-natives right but this is a highly regulated industry and this guy goes here so here's a commercial shooter this is a guy that makes his living shooting kangaroos the kangaroos that wind up in the u.s for meat and he goes on to say for starters it's not even a popular meat in australia however it's available in regular supermarkets for human consumptions, and it is a staple of pet foods. It's very cheap, very healthy, but because it's so lean, it requires careful cooking and has never been more than a niche product here in Australia. He says all the

meat in Australia, kangaroo meat, is all sourced from wild kangaroos shot by professionals. He says that it is probably, give the guy the credit, he's saying probably, the last industrial scale market hunting in the world. They export to many countries, including the U.S., and he has been unable to find anyone raising them domestically for meat over there or here. So wild kangaroos are almost certainly what the kids in Nebraska were eating. He says, the industry here is regulated in all states with strict kill quotas,

licensing of shooters, and carcass handling requirements. Here's where it gets interesting. Like all the shooting is done at night with spotlights. And by law, all animals must be killed with a shot to the head from a centerfire rifle of at least.222 caliber. Most guys are using a.223.

Almost all the shooting is done on private land requiring the permission of the landholder. Generally, it's farmland where kangaroos are doing crop damage. Most shooters work alone in a single four-wheel drive vehicle using a roof-mounted spotlight and a shooting rest mounted on the truck door. You shoot from a seated position. You shoot them, you field dress them, you hang them in the back of the truck, and then you drop them off at a chilled processing plant at the end of the night. He normally takes around 30 per night, each weighing 50 to 100 pounds. He says, legally required to humanely kill the joey when he does shoot a female he goes into details about

how they get this done which i'll not share i'll share it over uh a glass i don't drink anymore so i'll share it over a glass of water but uh it doesn't look good for the industry he has not found any evidence of changes to population dynamics due to this sex specific harvest how would it not you're only killing males. If you're not shooting females, normally there's still 50 million of them. Out of that population of 50 million, they're harvesting

right now about 5 to 7 million annually. He also says, he goes on to say this, in addition to the commercial harvest, kangaroos can be shot privately to mitigate agricultural damage by landowners and recreational shooters with landowner permissions. Laws vary state to

state, with some states requiring a landowner to apply for tags, and they allow the use of the carcass. However, in my home state, it is open season. There's no season, no bag limit, no weapons restrictions, which sounds amazing, but unfortunately it is illegal to keep the carcasses or to use any of the meat,

even for personal consumption. Meaning, you can shoot them, can't eat them, which I don't even get. And he says, as a result of this, and from our extremely restrictive firearm laws, we have no culture of recreational kangaroo hunting. He also goes on to say this about Australia. He says we should be seen as a cautionary tale for the rest of the world, in particular the USA. We have a vast amount of wilderness. WA, where he is, is larger than Alaska and Texas combined. Huge areas of undeveloped public land, but no legal recreational hunting allowed

on any of it even on private land hunting is extremely restricted limited to a few feral species and our restrictions on firearm access make this even inaccessible to most people um that's what he's got to say about all that sad story now mug number two ends this thing with talking about some loosening of restrictions where now a landowner with a problem can designate shooters and he's going out this weekend and you can designate shooters and they loosen restrictions on using the meat and he's going out this weekend they're hoping to put 10 in the freezer he says this is great news for those of us living in New South Wales.

He says he likes to the tails can be used as you would ox tail. They like the back straps and the tenderloins. They like to mince the hind legs and cut in some beef fat for burgers, etc. Anyone got anything to say about that?

That's a deep dive right there boys on kangaroo hunting i'll be not returning to that subject anytime soon i'd like to try it i've eaten it have you had it what is it comparable to stringy ass meat like like stringy antelope meat i guess i remember like you when i got i had I got it, I had some kangaroo little T-bones. What's it called where you got your rib? What do they call that? Beef cutting? Rib chop? Yeah, chop.

That's what I'm looking for. They cut the whole thing and they got the part of the back. We used to have a band saw and we'd cut deer and antelope that way, like little chops. It was like eating that, but you needed to go floss your teeth when you got done i had no idea there were so many different types of kangaroos i didn't either the kangaslam we get a lot of like we get a lot of emails from guys in australia because there's not like a robust there's a lot of hunters but there's not a sort of a culture and

information you know there's not like a conversation around hunting as much as what a lot of them point out so they're kind of like they like we hear from australians who like that you'd be there's this thing that's accessible to them where people are talking about all this stuff right get a lot of notes from them so you're saying there's parts of australia where they can shoot them but they can't touch them i'd always heard that because they're loosening those restrictions up and it's part of broader stuff because the same thing is like of australia where they can shoot them but they can't touch them i'd always heard that because they're loosening those restrictions up and it's part of broader stuff because the same thing is like in australia you have all these non-natives right and and there's some guys that do some amount of hunting there's a lot of people like we would love to go do some hunting can you

loosen the restrictions and the government's like no we'd rather pay people to shoot them out of helicopters and leave them to rot rather than let you redneck hicks go out and and shoot them out of helicopters and leave them to rot rather than let you redneck hicks go out and shoot them and eat them. We'd rather cripple them up from a helicopter and let them die a slow death. Like I said, they got these really draconian gun laws there which make it

extremely difficult. I think there's a growing population of bow hunters just to get around the weapons deal. Everybody good on that? Opens a whole can of worms about gun rights and our rights to

hunt as Americans. That's what he says about the cautionary tale. Speaking of cautionary tales, Yanni, can I hit one more? Sure. We're only half an hour in. This isn't even news one a couple questions came in guy was saying like you know hunters will like you shoot a buck right and you get to talking about oh you know the north america model of wildlife conservation and fueling and feeding my family and all the great stuff we do for wildlife.

This guy says, okay, I know all this, how great it is that you all hunt and how great it is that the animals are there and they're giving their lives for you and how happy the animals should be about all this whole system you guys have created. He says, picture that we're in a Cormac McCarthy-esque postmodern dystopia. Cannibals out looking for sustenance to survive, right? Just like you and you shooting your bucks. And these cannibals come up and they kill you and your family and eat you. Do you feel real honored about having continued the lives of your fellow humans?

Jeez. That's a good question. I'd be bummed. I'd be bummed. Do we ever say that the animal somehow is feeling honored itself? No. No. But I was talking to an animal rights philosopher.

He's in the documentary that we did which will be available soon but the animal rights philosopher is like you get like hunters like talk all this talk about this honorific right this honorific relationship with the animals and the animal doesn't care about your motivations you're causing it pain and killing it it's just all in your own head to make you feel better about something that's awful and don't act like you're doing something with or for this creature you're just hurting it and killing it and that's all it knows but the animal pride does prefer the advanced or improved habitat that it calls home thanks to $100. Good job, Pete. That's slick.

Keep going. I mean, there's other things besides just getting shot in the chest. I mean, you've lived your whole life in this fantastic habitat that maybe was mildly influenced by man. And maybe you appreciate most of that. And yet, at the end of the day, he got shot and ate by Farmer John. Well, sometimes you don't know what's coming. I mean, it's rough out there for critters, you know?

And mugs. I mean, at night, they got to try to stay alive. Yeah. I mean, what's the alternative? You know, be eaten alive by a predator? Have a coyote eat your hind quarter off you? I was going to leave it to you. That's exactly what I was thinking. Oh, yeah. know be eaten alive by a prey by a predator have a coyote eat your hind quarter off you i was gonna i was gonna leave it to you that's exactly what i was thinking oh yeah the the you know the levels

the ratio like the percentages of violent death oh are extraordinary look there's no death there's no death in the natural world that's a pleasant death for these animals it's exposure it's starvation it's disease it's getting torn asunder by a predator. In a sense, on that scale, what a hunter does is the most merciful of all of them. But the problem I have with that philosopher's question is that he's talking about the individual. And really, when we look at this, we're not dealing with an individual animal, we're dealing with an ecosystem. And the saving grace of what hunters are doing is we're not dealing with an individual animal we're dealing with an ecosystem you know and our you know the saving grace of what hunters are doing is we're preserving and maintaining an ecosystem

and in within that yeah we're killing individual animals but they're not discrete individuals the way people are so i don't think that the analogy holds up with yeah i think i think their philosophy is that it's anthropomorphism right they They believe that an individual animal sort of has some sort of feelings. Yeah. That's the thing I always try to focus on when I come up with questions like that, which are totally fair questions. But I always point out, like, hunters tend to be, like, hunters who are involved in the conservation movement tend to be focused on like

deer nests sort of like the entire package of like the deer population in general right and not so focused on an individual i was having like a little instagram battle today brief instagram battle day with the animal rights guy who was pissed at yanni for having killed the bull and i was pointing out to him responded to that guy bull. And I was pointing out to him. You responded to that guy? Oh, yeah. And I was pointing out to him that in the early 1900s, this state had 5,000 elk. Today, this state has 150,000 elk. Hunters did that.

So if you want to have a who does more for wildlife contest, as far as I can tell, this guy has some kind of sound mixer or something. He's like the internet troll slash sound mixer. If you want to have a who does most for wildlife tournament between you and the eagle, the eagle is going to smoke you. I was telling him. I am a little fascinated by this Cormac McCarthy kind of world, though, where it's regulated cannibalism.

I mean, are they getting licenses? Do they have to wear Hunter Orange? It's not regulated. You want to see a good segue then i got only one more thing um uh no two more things sorry good song recommendation we did a show recommendation which is tales from the tour bus there's a song right now i've been listening to a fair bit by a band called the quiet hollers it's called mont blanc and it's i like it because it's car is mccarthy-esque it's a dude who you gather is living in a post-apocalyptic situation okay when you listen to it you keep hearing him say shit i shed a tear for the books i should have read and i thought without paying attention i

thought i was like a guy who is bummed out that he didn't pay more attention in school. But he's a dude living in a post-apocalyptic scenario trying to keep his family alive once you listen closely to the lyrics. And what he's saying is when he says, I shed a tear for the books I should have read, he's wishing he had been studying up on the

kind of shit we tend to talk about here on this digital radio program. That's what he's lamenting that now here he is in this situation he doesn't know how to function and operate um it's not an upbeat tune no those are some of the best tunes and the often and he goes and then the bomb but you can't tell what he's saying i had to go look it up online he's talking about his life Those are some of the best tunes. And often in it, he goes, and then the bomb. But you can't tell what he's saying. I had to go look it up online.

He's talking about his life. He's like, he should have been paying more attention, but he was snuggled with his old lady. And he's like, and then the bomb. And then he gets into what life's like after the bomb and how he sheds a tear for the books he should have read. Okay, Guy Rodin asked this. He needs to, I don't want to ask too many questions here. He wants to shoot a deer, but when he does it,

he needs it to fall down immediately and not jump a fence. He's going to be shooting from 20 yards. He owns a Remington 1100. He's thinking that that's the way he's going to do this. And he goes, I have heard to use slug, high shoulder, and also number nine pellets. Remington 1100. He's thinking that that's the way he's going to do this. He goes, I have heard to use slug, high shoulder, and also number nine pellets. Any

assistance greatly appreciated. Yikes. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. Boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. Our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew.

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y'all. I've got some thoughts yeah i will i'll have you give the thoughts i'm gonna start by saying usually when you're in a situation where you're like right where you need to tee it up preemptively trying to avoid yeah where you're kind of like i'm in a dicey situation but let's just never mind i trust that you've got this all sorted out and you know what you got yourself into then i'll let the i'll let the experts speak on that one bird quail shot or a slug well definitely not the quail shot and i've personally never used it but i've heard a lot of people have great success probably especially at close range like that with buckshot yeah to the head but not number nine birdshot which is illegal anyway i know what state he's in and it's illegal in your state well so different states have

different laws about your critter jumping a fence and crossing a line and whether you can or cannot retrieve that animal what that looks like montana has their own unique definition of that law. But depending on what state he's in, could decide what weapon he should be using. Well, at 20 yards, if he goes with buckshot, he'd be very safe. There's that federal, it's an LE load that has a type of wadding in it that helps keep that together. even with a regular buckshot at 20 yard the pattern is going to be tighter than your fist and so you're going you're going

head or chest with that i i would i would go neck i'd go right really yeah with with that buckshot absolutely absolutely the problem that the head you know the headshot works great but the vitals are so small. And if you mess up, you have just done the most horrific thing to an animal. Oh, then your neighbor's going to be in for a real treat. Oh, I mean, then you've got zombie deer with no lower jaw. I mean, it's just. But buckshot, right?

I mean. Well, no, I'm saying if it's between. We were talking about buckshot. Buckshot would be fine. A slug would be fine, too. Yeah. Trust me, you're not going to want to get hit by either one of them. But buckshot at that range will be tighter than your fist. about birdshot no it's just i wouldn't it's just too

small i don't want to give his state away but in his state birdshot's illegal i can't imagine birdshot being legal anywhere anywhere so john if you had to pick one though 20 yards 20 yards or the slug is it 20 yards, the buckshot or the slug, is it going to be neck buckshot or high shoulder? I would go neck buckshot. That deer is not moving. I like to think he needs it to fall real fast because he doesn't want to drag it far. Rather than that, he's in some kind of weird neighborly situation.

That changes everything. My take, and this is just me not really even know what i'm talking about i would feel if i hadn't just consulted with with john snow i would feel that the slug high shoulder because then you're shooting at a pie plate yeah if we're talking about just anchoring i'm talking about the base of the neck i'm not talking center neck i'm talking base neck which is kind of that high shoulder area too but i think i could be wrong on this but like there are guys like in minneapolis who are doing the deer control there and i think they're using slugs but they're doing that high neck shot because they don't want anything to run

around and uh yeah because they're doing them in parks like where people are walking through at night and stuff. We have a buddy that does that for a living, and they do head and neck with a.223. Damn. They shoot for airports. They shoot for municipalities. Facing away, he said, right?

That was the shot that they liked. Yeah, I forgot that. He likes it to be facing the other direction. Well, it gives you a lot more target area, usable target area that way. And he's talking about the kind of shooting where you're looking at a couple people watching TV in the front window of a house

and you're shooting deer in their yard. Like that kind of like very tightly controlled or like high, what am I trying to say? Surgical. Surgical. I have a slightly macabre story about this. This was in Minneapolis where a friend of mine got invited on one of these calls. And he didn't, in the moment, he forgot about the shot placement.

And he put it through the rib cage like we normally would. Oh, like the normal style. Normal style. And so this was a snowy park. Oh, God. And actually, it connected to a cemetery. And the deer, of course, shot through both sides, hosing everywhere. 70 yards.

70 yards on tombstones, on the whole thing. He said they spent hours trying to clean this up and sanitize. This is my last one. Yanni, you got a bunch, right? Yeah. I want to hit one more. Because this is my last one that yanni you got a bunch right oh yeah okay i want to hit one more because that's what i kind of understand the guy wrote in he's saying we've talked about vac sealers we talked about chamber sealers you guys for clear what we're talking about you know chamber sealer is uh is that where it goes into like the tub and you close the door on top of it yeah i have one each so i have like a weston um vac sealer that's non-chamber right and you that's where everybody has right you open the

thing up lay the bag over the lip the bag's laying out on the counter sucks it out zap it a chamber sealer um it goes into a vacuum chamber and i know you don't need the bag you don't the bags are cheaper because there you don't need a bag that allows the one-way flow you don't need a vented bag right because when you're pulling if you picture a normal sealer when it's expunging air right it can it can pass through like a like a like a like a one-way pass through the vented bag on a chamber chamber seater, the whole chamber is vac, so you can just use a regular heavy-duty bag, and the bags are cheaper. He goes on to say, I would like some input and clarification on what's the best. Then he says that

here's what initiated his problem. He had some rabbit stock. I like this guy immensely. He had some rabbit stock in his deep-freezing half-gallon jars. He overfilled them and noticed stock i like this guy immensely he had some rabbit stock in his deep freeze and half gallon jars he overfilled him and noticed today that three of the jars cracked in the freezer i that's a legit problem man like because i'll freeze stock i'll pressure seal it where i can just go into your counter or into your cupboard or pantry but i also sometimes freeze stock and yeah man you can't fill the jar all the way up you got to leave a lot of headspace on that thing when you freeze it. So that's one thing.

When he goes on to talk about chamber sealing liquids, I don't see any reason. I'm not a physicist. I don't see any reason why you would ever need to vacuum seal a liquid because a liquid isn't like compressible right yeah like what and liquids don't freeze or burn when you vacuum seal an elk steak though the goal is not to compress the elk steak it's to take all the air away around the elk steak right yeah so that would be the

same goal with the liver just get all let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt maybe he's trying to figure out a way to more efficiently stack stuff in his freezer like you know you i'll sometimes do that with like different kinds of sauces but you can't vac seal chamber seal or not when you put into like i have a i have a big weston chamber sealer at my fish shack, and that thing kicks ass all day long. But you can't lay a bag of liquid down in there. Because when you pull the vacuum on it, all that liquid, even if you're doing a piece of fish with a small amount of liquid, the liquid gets pulled out, and you've got to roll up a piece of paper towel

and lay it down in there to keep the liquid gets pulled out and you got to roll up a piece of paper towel and like lay it down in there to keep the liquid from pulling out and ruining the seal if you put a bag of stock in a vacuum sealer all it's going to happen you're going to have an empty bag and you're going to have a vacuum sealer that holds one quart of stock the simple it's going to go like yeah it'll be a mess i think the simple answer is just to take a Ziploc freezer bag, fill it with the liquid, and just kind of squeeze the air out as you seal it. Well, the real answer, and that's great, is not use glass, too. Freeze in plastic. And if you're a plastic phobe, freeze in glass, but don't overfill.

But then he goes on to this other question where he was wondering about chambers versus regular i wish i knew like the opposite of a chamber non-chamber and chamber he's saying do chamber sealers do better on cuts with potential sharp bones such as shanks um now that question there is interesting question because when you're doing if you use shitty vacuum seal bags and you're vac sealing salmon and you don't pull the pin bones first you can get your your bag can be perforated from the pin bones or if you're making if you like pre-cut your asabuco where you pre-cut your shanks and you got little burrs on the bone and then you go to vac seal with shitty bags the shitty bags are more likely to get perforated by the corner of the bone um which that leads to a problem so for that because chamber seaters you can use a heavier

gauge bag you can buy like really heavy gauge bags i would say, sure, but don't buy bad bags. The answer to that, though, is do you remember what they did down at Quality Meats? I forget the name. Oh, Divine Meat Company? Yeah, Divine Meat Company, Clayton Saunders. They had a chamber sealer that we did all of our hog in, and they just had little pieces of sort of like robust plastic. I forgot about that. That they would basically put on the tips of the ribs and the sharp edges.

Yeah, man. Was it made for that? I don't know. So they would essentially pre-wrap the part that could poke through the bag with like a heavier duty practice. Yeah, or just slip it in there and kind of set it right on the sharp edge. So then when they sealed it, it would keep it from poking through. Yeah, totally forgot about that. You're right. They would, on their bone- so then when they sealed it it would keep it from poking through yeah totally forgot about that you're right they would on their bone-in cuts they would pad it up

but he was chamber sealing too he was with some nice heavy duty bags potentially heavy duty bags sounds like all of you guys's discussion about vacuum sealing all comes down to the bag it's like good bag just i think there's by the good the best bag you can because if you don't, you're just going to ruin the meat. I used to have so many more problems with them, but I have a lot less problems now. But I also think I handle them differently. When your bags get broken, I used to be in there like stirring shit up in my freezer, you know? Looking for something and just tossing it out of the way. Yeah, you punch your bags up.

He goes on to have one more question. He's saying on a chamber sealer, do you still have to let it cool? Like during heavy use? Yep. You still got to let it cool off now and then. I have that, the main one I run is that Weston Pro 2300,

which is like a beast. And yeah, you can burn it out too hot if you're just going on it, going on it, going on it. You got to just let it chill out now and then. I just put my hand on it, and I can tell when it's too hot. I use the Food Saver vacuum sealer, and it just cuts you off.

It turns itself off. That's a real machine there. Oh, yeah. Run some critters through that one you off it turns itself off that's a real machine there oh yeah run some critters through that one it just turns itself off it does when it gets hot oh yeah yeah it's probably smart self-regulated oh yanni what do you got i got a bunch more on the same along the same lines um i didn't get a name with this one bro Brody didn't put in the names. I don't tell their names. Unless they want. But Pete from Bozeman might be excited when we say Pete from Bozeman asked. This Pete right here?

You've been emailing in Pete? I got some questions for you boys. He's saying that he's noticing that in a lot of the recipes, the pictures in the books, in the meat in the videos, he's saying that the meat always appears to be real fresh well that's because we don't actually kill any of that stuff we just go and buy it at the grocery store no i'm i'm kidding there but he was saying that he's saying for like um he ran into the problem with asabuco that he went and ages me and then he wanted to use his shank but it had like a rind on it and the pictures and the videos you saw of us doing asabuco the shank didn't have this like hard rind on it so he's saying like how do i get around that

should i trim the rind should i not age it do i treat different cuts differently i'd say it depends on how heavy you do it. You're asking me? Anybody. I'll go with all of you. Why is he aging it to begin with? I mean, if you're making Osabuco out of shank. Well, yeah, I'm guessing he just didn't know.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too is that it's going to be slow and low anyways. Yeah, so you don't need to do that. It doesn't really need to be aged. But let's say he's aging the whole damn deer. Yeah. Because you're not going to age some and not age the rest. He ages the whole damn deer. And this is for quartered out, so you don't have the protection of the hide.

Yeah, I think unless you wrap it in plastic, the rind is completely unavoidable. Yeah, so what would you do with the rind then if you're going to Asabuco? I think you got to carve it off. What if you just cook it? Is it still going to, I don't know. I guess I've never cooked one with the rind on it. Well,

the new experiment. It's tough on a shank. I mean, I would tend to not let that age too long. I like aging the rest of it, but I, you try picking that stuff off the shanks. It's just a pain in the ass.

Well, by the time you get it all off you're down to nothing anyway uh you want to know a hot tip not related to this dude you ever notice when you hang if you're aging a deer you hang up a deer that the tenderloins are so small on a deer that if you like age it for a week they get dried dried out where they're like, damn, they're kind of gone. It's all rind. Our buddy Steve Kendrot takes a piece of plastic wrap and when he's hanging

the deer, he just pastes a piece of plastic wrap over the tenderloins. Then they don't get the problem that this boy's talking about. My take in terms of the shanks, you're cooking the sons of bitches so long that you're turning tendons into gelatin i don't think the rind is in the end but in a rind sense yeah like when you've aged something good like you pull the back strap off on a thing where it's been aged

uh yeah i'm cutting that stuff away but on that preparation it had to be a pretty healthy like a big thick moldy rind i would cut off but like any normal rind that i've encountered in my life i feel like it's gonna succumb i feel like it's gonna succumb to the to the cooking to the slow and low right because i can't think of ever because there you're dealing with such a small thing anyway like the more you start fiddle farting around trimming stuff off you kind of are getting rid of the whole point like the beauty of the thing is you wind up with a bone that could go into a museum you know you're getting it like every last usable scrap off that thing and that's kind of like what makes that dish cool.

So I would have a hard time trimming parts of it off because then you're kind of like negating the main point. So our answer is if you're going to hang it for a while, take some Saran Wrap and wrap your shanks or cut the shanks off and get them in the freezer immediately. Yeah, and do a Steve Kendra on the tenderloins. Sorry, John? Or just ignore it. You're saying just ignore it.

Just cook it with a rind. Any normal rind. How thick? I wish I knew how to describe stuff in mills. Okay, if you had a rind, I would say most rinds are about as thick as if you cut a, for instance, a paper coffee cup if you went down to the local coffee shop and got a coffee cup a normal rind is about like that paper fair yeah i think that's on the light end light end oh the actual rind yeah i would agree

with that it's heavier there's like a purpley transition into the meat after that, but the actual rind that you have to carve away is probably about the size of a pickup. And I've seen some leathery-ass rinds, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Like your average deer skin, that's how much you're going to end up carving off. Yeah. So it just depends, man.

You know what? I don't know. It's hard for me to picture trimming that thing off that's the last word i got to say about it i'm with you all right uh here's another one everyone's gonna have a tip for this guy padden so just keep it to one because i know everybody's got one for this he hunts by himself and he's often not going into areas and not going deep because in archery season, he's worried he's going to kill something and not be able to get the meat out before it spoils.

I like this guy. So what tips, tricks do you guys have to get the meat out faster or keep it cool longer? And as a general rule, how much time do you feel you have before the meat starts to spoil? Hmm. A lot of variables. A lot of variables. So read it again.

What tips, tricks do you guys have to either get the meat out faster or keep it cool longer? And as a general rule, how much time do you feel you have before the meat starts to spoil? And we've got a limit to like a simple trick. And we're going to assume he's hunting elk? Yeah, because he's worried about getting it all out. Because, yeah, if it was a deer, he'd pack it out in one shot.

Okay. So it's something bigger than a single trip maybe. Or who knows? A lot of people aren't going to want to carry a whole deer. Okay. You kill a big white-tailed buck, 180 pounds. Yeah. You're going to strip it down. But a lot of people aren't going to want to do that.

No, that's a heavy load. Yeah, some old dude, retired. I don't think we can really answer the general rule on how much time do you think you have. Well, I... Okay. Because there's just too many variables. Sure, but I haven't thought about it. If we can say at 50 degrees, then sure, I'll give you a number.

I'll say this. Longer than you think if the proper steps are taken. It's amazing how durable that stuff is if the proper steps are taken. It's also amazing the temperature difference between a sun-filled meadow in early September and a dark, shady patch of timber with a creek flowing through it yeah is that going to be your tip for padding well i'm just i'm just getting into this but yeah no you only get one tip or trick okay my tip is work work quick and get that shit in the timber north face and slope yeah hang it up good airflow it just worked quick because yeah i've i've killed

elk on hot september days before and it is you stick your hands inside that animal and it's 100 plus degrees and you pull your hands out and it's 90 plus degrees outside the clock is ticking and so yeah we're just working quick think about taking a nap cold ass day and you're trying to take a nap down the timber you got to go up into a sunny meadow or conversely you try and take a nap up in a sunny meadow and you're trying to take a nap down the timber you got to go up into a sunny meadow or conversely you're trying to take a nap up in a sunny meadow and you can't no way no too hot and then you go down you got to add a layer to take a nap down below big difference that's by moving 50 yards nature's refrigerator phil i would say definitely get the hide off and if you're super

worried about it uh get the bones out you you know, you get more, uh, airflow circulation in, into the big cuts of meat. Like let's say it's an elk, you know, taking that hind quarter and getting it to where that bone is out of there. And also taking the hide off, uh, that mountain goat I killed last year, we left the last hind quarter in the hide. I did a, uh, full body mount and I was like, well, it's in the hide. I'm just going to leave it in the hide and pack the rest of this mount. And I was like, well, it's in the hide. I'm just going to leave it in the hide and pack the rest of this out. And we got out and that hind quarter was still warm from being insulated from that hide, from that fur. So hide off.

If you're really worried about it, bone out. Steve Reno. That was my tip. I'm answering the part of his thing like how long can you put it off? You can put it off a long time if you get the body heat out and you keep it in the shade, up in the breeze, not wrapped up in garbage bags. Longer than you think. To the point where you're kind of surprised.

Days. Yeah. The thing I always return to, man, we were hunting doll sheep once in Alaska, and it was no joke. There were so many fires. It was still fire season. There were so many fires going on that it was obstructing our glassing. Like that kind of weather.

And unseasonably hot in the 80s every day. And we killed two sheep. The first one we killed, I think we carried it around with us for seven days by being very judicious about how we were taking care of it, what we were doing that night. We'd even chisel a hole down in a glacier and get a good chill on it like that, but just moving it along and always trying to decide what best to do, hanging it by the creek, keeping it in the shade during the daytime,

getting it out at night, letting it cool. I kind of came away with that with a real appreciation for if you're properly equipped and paying attention that you can do some pretty miraculous stuff without having meat spoil. And I've also had experiences, particularly when I first got involved in western hunting, I had some experiences where I was shocked at how badly, how quickly something could go south. How just stunningly fast you could spoil something by not... Letting it ride around the back of your pickup not dealing with the body heat well even in the body even in the field especially with elk you know i i see it all the time in rifle season it's a cold day there's snow on the ground

and guys will wait you know to to field dress their their their elk and and that elk meat goes goes bad so fast it's unbelievable even in the snow if you even in the snow if you don't get the neck opened up and get the esophagus out get it get it breathing you know that you'll you'll lose meat even when it's cold because the thing's laying there 600 pounds it's like to get down to the core of it's what 18 inches deep it's a heat factory you know and that thing's 103 degrees internal body temperature whatever here's a question for you steve have you ever put meat in the crick you know what's funny take a quarter and put it in the creek i had a question from a guy like that and on that same trip i'm talking about we had some contractor bags and we

were putting meat putting sheet meat in contractor bags and putting it down in a creek to cool it off underwater the problem is dry bags contractor bags all this stuff is like pretty waterproof but you submerge you put it underwater i don't know how it happens the seams i don't know what it is even like a brand spickety new contractor bag somehow you open it up like i don't know how it happened there's a quart of water laying about that damn bag so what's the danger there it just gets nothing really it's unsightly and it turns all white and weird looking but you know when i was hunting hawaii uh i was hunting with some hawaiians in hawaii the first thing they do is put their the first thing you do is bone out we had we were hunting access to your bone the thing out and

throwing ice water yeah what if you just took it looks like a drowned rat in there man elk hindquarter hide on and just dunked it in the correct it would certainly protect one side yeah i would do that before i let it rot we're not talking about like giardia like laying eggs into your elk no no that's not happening it's just the discoloration and the way it looks once it's wet. And the Hawaiians are like, they put it in the water to do what I'm talking about, is they put it in the water to draw all the blood out. Yeah.

They pull that meat out. It's like ivory. But, dude, it was good, man. Then they steamed it underground. Clayton Saunders also liked to do that. He likes to chill in ice water. For days. I shot a black bear in the bear

tooths a couple years ago and it took me two and a half days to get it out and two nights in a row we put all the bear meat in several trash bags and then into a creek oh there you go and so that was our refrigerator the second morning as i pulled the bags out of the creek a pod of otters came past our camp our creek side camp that i'm sure smelled this meat miles and miles down this creek yeah they came off the still water and came up into this tributary way way up into the bear tooths saw a pod of otters and i'm sure my bear meat had baited him up there and it wasn wasn't five minutes until I, that morning, pulled it out. And then 10 squeaky otters slipped past Cam. They definitely would have ripped that bag up and taken all the meat.

Yeah, no doubt. John, are there any tips or tricks left? Well, I think the point about getting the meat off the bone if you're really concerned that's a big one and getting airflow under it any kind of airflow you know we did this on a moose hunt earlier this year it was a diy drop camp and it was hot and um you know we were and it was just kind of rainy and warm the whole time, and so we were pretty concerned about the meat. But we got enough airflow on it and would flip them around every now and then, and we were out there for over a week and a half.

And even though it smelled kind of ripe when we actually got it back and started trimming it up, it was great. So that is one of the things, to your point, Steve, that it's amazing how long, if you do care for it it'll last but you know it seems like it's increasingly an issue in some ways you know i was in elk camp in september this year a ways in public land and was fortunate to have been able to ride into camp but more and more especially you know a lot of young athletic hunters which is obviously great for the whole sport but are sort of going solo going in deep you know and and particularly

bow hunting elk you know you really have to think through what's your plan what what what is your is your plan because uh the one word answer i was going to give to the Pete from Bozeman, right? Would be buddies. Yes. Because you can get a signal on top of a lot of ridges. You can have a plan.

Even if you want to hunt alone, I get that. I like to hunt alone too. To be able to say, hey, I need some help. Get in here. That was going to be my tip. Since you already had one, I'm going to just like to hunt alone too. But to be able to say, hey, I need some help. Yep. Get in here. That was going to be my tip. And since you already had one, I'm going to just add on to that one. But yeah, when I was talking about it yesterday, because I was hunting with my neighbor, and

we got lucky, killed one. We're packing one out, and we're going through the same scenario. But living in Colorado, I had probably almost a dozen people on a list that was just on the bulletin board year round. But like my wife knew I would probably call her first and then be like, Hey, run the list and get up here as fast as you can. Most of those people weren't hunters. Most of them were just people that liked, enjoyed the outdoors. We're stoked to get, you know, a few steaks and burgers. They want to hike, you know? Exactly. They're like, sweet. So stoked to go go for a hike today didn't have anything to do on a sunday you know so often

it would be it's hard to talk your hunting buddies into coming to help you it's usually easier to talk to the guy that's like i can get some elk meat i'm like i'm coming and then you don't have to be shown another hunter your spot yeah it doesn't leave a lot to the imagination when you gotta take them right to the exact spot yeah so here he is exactly where he was standing tropical way but i have a i have a friend in bozeman who uh they raise horses and they're raising pack horses and he tells me every year he's like you know the more experience these horses have getting them out, you know, let me know. So I take my DeLorme with me and he's just ready to go at all times. He does hunt too, but like, he knows he's just like, he'll be at work. You hit him with the DeLorme. He's just like, I gotta go.

He goes and gets his horse and we'll, you know, head up to the trail. So if you know, or can get ahold of somebody that would do that kind of thing. Cause I know some like way back before it became super popular, Cameron Haynes in his book would write about he had a guy on call. He paid to pack his bulls out of the backcountry. And like you were saying, it's getting to the point where guys are, you know, so gung-ho to go the furthest, go, you know, solo that they don't even think about it.

And then they get a bull on the ground. It's like, now what am I going to do? Yeah, it's a big, big, big deal. I love my horse and my mule almost to an indecent level. But I'm not a great horseman by any means. There's a lot of really great horse people around. And there's sort of a question in my mind whether uh you should call a licensed outfitter for that job you know i get the friend and buddy thing with with horses and stuff but i

in my mind i'm wondering if there might be some rules and regulations about it you know uh there's a lot there's a lot there's lots of great licensed outfitters in the state who would what would that cost i mean i don't think it's real expensive relative to the service you're getting. What did that do in Washington? Did you ever talk about prices with him? I never... No. He does that in the fall for a living.

Nice. It's like an Uber driver for... Yeah. What do you think, John? 500 bucks to pack out an elk five miles? I think you could probably get an outfitter. He's sort of a wrangler to me. Somebody who's really kind of just coming to help pack meat.

It's going to be him and another horse. It depends if it's 15 miles or five miles or what. But $250. Oh. A couple hundred bucks. Is that right? There you go. Save an extra $250.

That's a wild ass guess but and i've seen even in like diners and in colorado elsewhere like you'll see a guy like with a sign up where you know like where you guys like cut the buckskin on the end of a piece of paper taking cut the fringe you tear the tab off of dudes advertising that service that's a good thing to look into man just have, man. Just have like an ace in the hole before you go hunting. Okay, I'm going to zap him with a question. This guy is from the UK. Does not hunt. Wants to know this.

Could a major league pitcher with a wicked fastball if taught to stalk a whitetail deer be able to kill the deer with a rock that could fit in his hand? and if he had a tag would his methods for filling the tag be legal that's a two-part answer yes and no yes and no i think my answer is yes and no yeah you probably kill the deer no it's probably not legal

not legal method of take method of take is interesting um uh the level of specificity they get into on method of take particularly if you get into something like waterfowl where it's like shot size composition of shot so it's like how the diameter of the shot what the shot is made of the bore of the shotgun being prohibitions on too small prohibitions on too large how many shells the firearm can hold the gauge of the firearm you know that's what i was getting at the gate with the bore size okay like excruciating level of detail around method of take and in some places places, like Alaska, Waterfowl is federal, but some places, like there, they leave a lot,

there's a lot of, like, open, they don't get into a lot of method of take discussions that other states get into. What would be, like, the drastic end of that? Like, coyote killing in Montana? Like, I don't know what would be illegal. No, there's no method of take there, I don't think. It's non-game.

Okay, yeah. Yanni? Got a couple good ones here. This one will be a little bit shorter. The least answer, I think. This fella's saying, well, it's Jordan, so it could be a gal.

Let's say it's a gal. She's saying she's shot enough big game animals with a rifle that she knows what it looks like when she gets a good hit by the animal's reaction and behavior and that uh so she's she can kind of tell like if it's a good hit and whether she has to shoot again or not but even though it's a good hit and it's starting to get wobbly it still is you know it's taking seconds to you know lay or fall down so it's a little bit longer but she feels like she's in a ethical quandary wondering should she just shoot again and get it over with or she just let it go on its own and the reason reason it's a quantity for her is because she feels like the second shot

might do more meat damage. She wants to get as much good meat out of it as possible. I like it. That's a good question. Good question. I like it. There's a reason guns hold more than one bullet. Because I've seen it any number of times.

Guys think that they've knocked an animal down. I know. Even when it falls. Even gals that have shot a hundred critters. Like Jordan. Yes. Yeah. No, I always put another round or two into the animal.

I disagree. You do. If it's standing, I'm shooting. If I've made contact, if I've wounded that animal, and now it is my responsibility to finish the job. I know, but she's saying that this is after a good shot. It could be at 75 yards, and you saw the bullet go right through both lungs yeah i'm still sure we're talking seconds probably just long enough to get off

another shot or not i'm with pete i'm shooting keep shooting put another one through the ribs john i think it depends on the animal that's what i'm saying there you go okay that's what i'm saying we're talking brown bear we're talking white tail there's two different categories man i shot a brown bear in alaska recently and i'll leave some of the names out to protect the innocent but it was a charge situation and uh we emptied our guns. But it was kind of a life or death deal. Yeah, that's its own thing.

Yeah, that's way different than... You weren't going to wait a minute and see if it expires? I heard about that. Yeah, it was kind of hairy. But then, you know, elk, deer, antelope, you know, plains game, you know, smaller stuff. Save the know plains game like you know smaller stuff

save the meat pete yeah i'm into it i like i like breaking big animals down though i mean elk elk are tough just because you think you have a fatal hit on him doesn't mean you do i don't know i yeah i would say yeah depends on the animal on On a moose, absolutely. Keep shooting them. On a moose, absolutely. On some stuff like whitetail or caribou, I would be like reading a lot into what I saw happen. Sure. What I thought was happening.

Now, it's interesting because Jordan really, and maybe I just didn't do a good enough job explaining this, but you guys have all answered it in sort of just like waste meat or not meat she also is wondering about like the animals misery yes in those three or four five seconds we're talking about fractions of not fractions we're talking about seconds i think of someone i think that any one of us if they knew if if it was minutes. Shoot again. By that point, there's no question anymore. Like at probably 10 seconds, there's no question. Yeah.

If you have long enough to think about it, in my opinion, you probably should have another one going down. We're talking about a decision that you're – we're talking about a decision that's playing out over a handful of seconds. You're talking about like dead on his feet, dead to rights. He's still dancing around, but he is 100% going to die. That doesn't sound like there's much of a reason to shoot again. Yeah, if you get a hit on something, it runs three or four steps. You can see the shot place.

It's like out clear. You can see the shot placement. You can tell from body language you know it's it's gonna be down within literally seconds it's just not i just feel like it's you're not doing it a favor by shooting it again especially if it's already kind of like it's dead while it's it's like dead walls walk that's how i feel too i feel like if if i took a 30 cow through both lungs, I'm probably not feeling much else at that point.

The world has gone fuzzy and gray immediately. Right, and the reverse is so true. It's what's worse than losing an animal that's been hit. So sort of when in doubt, you know what I mean? When in doubt. And that's kind of where I am. I mean, yeah, if you know that the animal's dead on his feet okay yeah no need to shoot again but you know it's it's the ones especially those kind of marginal like near the spine hits where they drop and everybody's

starting to you know get excited and unload their gun and all that then all of a sudden the animal pops up and is off like a shot now you've got a mess on your hands yeah that's why i'm always thinking about putting another one into it if i can you bow hunters might already know this i'd be real curious to hear some opinions but i learned from a buddy of mine jason morrison uh recently that you know on elk, you kill or you shoot a bull with an arrow, knock another arrow, and shoot again. And maybe that's habit for you guys. There's nothing to lose then.

I think for a lot of guys it's not. And, you know, if you're able to get a second arrow in an elk, it helps a lot. Oh, yeah. Why not, man? You know? There's nothing to lose. Hey, folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in canada and boy my goodness do we hear from the canadians whenever we do a raffle or sweepstakes and our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they

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Okay, ready for this one? Please. Is it okay to hunt squirrel on public land during deer hunting season? I know it's legal, but is it right? I know if I were going to hunt for 10 days for deer and a squirrel hunter came through, I'd be pissed. What's the etiquette on this topic? We've covered this before.

I don't think you're under any obligation whatsoever to determine who has the rights to be in the woods i just don't sucks for the deer hunter yes it does but it sucks for you more to stay home yeah i'd agree with that i think you could do a good turn you pull up to a little parking area on a little game management area and there's like a couple trucks there it's getting toward dusk you know if possible going another direction but if it came to being that you feel like you need to sit home for them from october 1st to november 15th for fear of running into a bow hunter no

no it's your woods too man yeah public landowner yeah it's just like it's like i'm sorry i think you could do like yeah if it's like courteous if you're there if you see the guy sitting in a tree stand don't go stomping under him maybe you know try to sneak around or something but yeah no reason you shouldn't be in the woods at that point if you notice a bow hunter to the left you could just easily go right go right that's just courtesy i killed a mountain goat right next to some ice climbers one time how'd they feel about that If you notice a bow hunter to the left, you can just as easily go right. That's just courtesy. I killed a mountain goat right next to some ice climbers one time. How'd they feel about that?

We didn't really actually have a conversation. The sheet of ice cracked and they fell to their death. They weren't able to talk afterwards. They weren't responding afterwards. They were not responding. I think that was a shared. That was an interesting combination. Ice climbers and mountain goat hunters. What's your take on that one, Yanni?

Oh, yeah. I'm with you. If it's prime time, don't go in there. Go hunt in the middle of the day. If it's going to keep you at home, I'd go into the woods and go squirrel hunting. Or hiking, for that matter or rabbit hunting or maybe i don't know whatever it might be in the woods during right you know deer season i i just hate the idea that a small game hunter would feel like a second class citizen in the hunting community we need more small game hunters squirrel hunting's cool rabbit hunting's cool. Rabbit hunting's cool.

That's as legit as anything else we do. So I'm with you. Get out there. But I do think that bull hunters think that their activities would trump others. That's a can of worms. But yeah, there is that attitude. Because they're so invested in it.

They got so much time invested in it. Right? And it comes down to these precise moments. And you've got a ton of effort, working your ass off, practicing, hanging stands. It's like waiting for the perfect moment.

And then it gets blown by some dude who, from all appearances, seems to be kind of willy-nilly, low commitment, low barrier to entry, wandering through the woods, shooting off.22 shells and bullshit with his buddy. It can feel that way, but in the end, I think it's just not your place, man. It's like everyone has just the same right you have. You've got to do your best to respect all the stakeholders at the table. Like if you're a fly fisherman and some guy comes floating down the river

in an inner tube drinking a Coors Light, he's having a good time too. But you may be trying to stick a big brown trout in a spot that he happened to float right over. Yeah. This is kind of a tangent though to what you're talking about a couple of the guys one of my buddies in particular he's a great hunter you know we hunt public a lot and we'll encounter other guys and one of the things i admire about him is that he doesn't let the presence of other hunters deter him at all

when he sees him that's the eagle the eagle's like that yeah you know and i and i think that so i think that when people feel that like that drop that disheartening sense of oh my god somebody just tromped through my space or i encountered a guy in my honey hole it's impossible not to to feel it a little bit but you gotta but i think a good hunter just is like all right i'm gonna well it's like when i go bear hunting in the spring there's always dudes around and you know you can get real down on it or you can just be like that guy's got no game he ain't gonna see the bears that i'm gonna see you know and i've been on vantage where i come back from a stalk or something and there's a bunch of guys just looking around willy-nilly and they didn't see

any of the bears there's like karma that must have changed around willy-nilly and they didn't see any of the bears. There's like karma. God, that must have changed, man, because back when I was living here previously, no one, no one. There's a lot more bear hunters now. Oh, man. It's a popular thing to do. Yeah, it used to be something fun to do in the spring that nobody did. No one.

I know so many bear hunters. It's kind of ridiculous. Careful what you talk about. They got spring fever. Careful what you talk about. Just on that topic about there's sort of karma to the sharing public land thing too. We were in public land hunting two years ago in September and had a nice hunt on a good bull.

It didn't quite happen excited to go back the next day alarm goes off at 4 30 and uh you know making coffee getting boots on and uh here come two public hunters so you know right right through camp saying we watched your elk hunt yesterday do you mind if i go try to get that bull that you really yeah and uh yeah it's you know it's your it's your land too man go go for it you want to hear ballsy you want to hear a good segue i've never heard of that before you know you're saying that your alarm went off here's a good segue check this out all right a guy wrote in about his buddy we're talking about what makes turkey shot gobble all the sounds it'll make turkey shot gobble he said one day

his buddy pulls out to a turkey hunting spot and he got there a little early and he's um thinking he'll take a quick nap but falls real asleep and wakes up and it's already legal light and he's in he's so flustered and frantic to get out that he messes up his keys and what he's doing and sets his own car alarm off. And his car alarm is going crazy, and a gobbler just 60 yards from his truck starts just hammering on the thing, gets the alarm off, goes down the trail 20 yards, calls that gobbler, and he gets him. That's awesome.

What else you got, Yanni? Add that to the list, huh? It was already on the list. Oh, of things that make gobblers gobble? The best one I've heard lately about, because I have a long list going of noises that make turkeys gobble, and the best one I've heard in a long time is a guy was saying the morning

bells at a monastery. He taunts turkeys near a monastery and in the morning go dong dong and the gobblers start hammering you could do the same thing with bulls bugling in late september yeah we had a guy say he doesn't he didn't want me to say this because he doesn't want to blow it he's like don't tell anybody this he hunts in idaho and he brings his elk bugle out in the spring to shot gobble turkeys he said holy shit does it work good huh oh yeah oh will primos knows about that oh nice i blow a rabbit distress call and that works up a gobble oh that's funny i've clapped real hard before and gotten to shot gobble at it. A big ripping whistle too.

My brother goes, hey! Speaking of hunting on public land, this fella found himself a sweet spot hunting over two scrapes. He was all pumped up, got his tree stand in there, got in early, and right at first light he catches movement out of the corner of his eye big old buck no it is not a big old buck coming down the trail it's another hunter big old dude who has a stand that he didn't see about 75 yards away from him he whistles he gets his attention the dude waves back and climbs in the stand so he's not really worried about like the ethics or like what you should do

but he's worried about like the what's the associated hunting danger or danger that surrounds that hunting so close to another hunter that you don't know, you don't know what he's going to do. Are there any dangers? None of you knows you're there. Knows you're a human being sitting 75 yards away. Well,

unless he's just an idiot, right? It's more dangerous than being by yourself. Maybe. Unless if you fall out of your stand, at least he's there to see you. To help you out. To give you a hand. No dangers.

That's a silver lining. I say no dangers. If I fall out of my stand, I got a buddy here to help me. What did you say? If he was rifle or bow hunting? It didn't say. Well, no, it did bow bow season bow season yeah i'm a lot more worried about the guy who doesn't see me yeah that's very true for sure

man yeah it's annoying but i just wouldn't like when i'm out assessing danger right you're out you're always a set you should be always be out assessing danger and a guy comes up and we acknowledge each other's presence and he decides to hunt 75 yards away from me i'm not being like oh this is getting dangerous i'm like this is getting extremely annoying not dangerous but extremely annoying have we talked about the story we heard from maryland on the show yes we talked about that i think we did on the maryland show you sure pretty sure dude i wish i knew for absolute positive because the best story i've ever heard the best hunting story i've ever heard go ahead and tell it again they won't mind so buddy of ours down in maryland is out in a marsh in a heavily hunted area

and they're hunting these little islands of trees out in the swamp okay out in the marsh he gets up bright and squirrely gets out in his thing way before light and gets set up in his little island and these islands of timber can be pretty small you know it's like 10 trees or whatever make this little island of timber and he gets set up and sure enough toward toward like later toward light here's the headlamp coming he's like i don't know the headlamp keeps coming and coming and coming and coming until it gets to his island of trees and he's like buddy hey it says hey i'm uh hunting here you know and the guy's like well i already got my stand over so they don't really clarify what he's gonna do but he acknowledges that he needs to go and do something

with his stand so the guy comes right behind him how many many yards was he away? 18? Yeah, something like that. He range-finding him. Yeah. He's in a tree 18 yards away. It might even be less than that because you'll hear the rest of the story. It might have been 17, but yeah. So the guy starts pulling a chain. He's got it chained with a heavy chain where he's like, as he's pulling the chain across the steel tree stand.

He's like, oh, my God, just get it over with. And he thinks he's unchained in the stand to move away. But after a minute, sure enough, it's like the unmistakable sound of bark. He's like, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. He climbs up. I think it was 13 yards. The guy finally gets positioned, and he swings around his range finder, and range finder's the guy. I think it was 13 yards away

as you'll see in a minute how just how close they were so he's looking out his side of the island and the guy's 13 yards away looking out his side of the island he's doing muzzle over season so eventually it gets light out and sure enough blouch out of this guy's tree. So our buddy like peers around to see what's going on. And there's a buck out in the marsh, clearly unscathed. And the guy is frantically trying to reload his muzzleloader, right, for a second shot. So our buddy swings around in his stand. No, but the buck is also circling around.

Don't make it sound like he's like now gonna poach it the buck happens to run out of him he's like not hit right but the guy's like frantically trying to reload his muzzleloader so our buddy swings around and shoots the buck perfect and the guy they're so close the guy whispers you got him our buddy our buddy climbs down and goes to retrieve the buck and he can't find it and the guy who's sitting in the other tree saying has a direct him he's like to the right so worked out to us yeah so he very says he got his deer very quietly vacated the area the best part of the best part of the story is the whisper at the end. You got it, man.

You got it, man. What else you got, Giannis? This is probably a good one to finish up on. We're going to be about that time when everybody needs to go home for dinner. But this guy, William, asks, with all the hunts you do in bad weather how does someone layer clothing on a budget and same way you layer it on and off yeah but i think you can think of like a cheap way to get warm and how do you keep your feet warm?

Now, everybody's got a tip or trick for this guy, but think brevity, Phil. I'm going long on this one. You want to go first? There's no other way for you. I'm going long and deep. Or do you want to pass it to Josh? How to layer on a budget? Mm-hmm.

Could get a job working for one of the camo companies that would probably help um well here in bozeman if you go to the goodwill you'll find a lot of stuff that uh skiers drop off they come for a week of skiing my wife has all sorts of really nice like patagonia pants and stuff from uh local goodwill she'd be surprised what people actually donate any town man any town yeah yeah i used to get tons of hunting clothes from the goodwill in a town of 9 000 people it's called it's called like saint vincent's it wasn't goodwill but same thing yeah i mean don't overlook that kind of thing you know what you can find there you know it might not be the latest and the greatest but you know if you're looking for base layers you know you don't have to be spending

an arm and a leg to get them right also i don't super believe in camels so a lot of the stuff i wear hunting you know it doesn't matter what color it is so if it's like you go over and it's on a sales rack and it's at bob wards it's like pick that up especially rifle hunting you don't need to wear camo rifle hunting no or bow hunting in my opinion but that's just me so yeah look look in the sales racks look at the goodwills pete well i don't think there's much of a substitute for high quality gear but um certainly before i had nice stuff say you know like a 300 down jacket which is an incredible piece of insulation um i think like in my college days i was wearing a lot of like ll bean fleeces and stuff like that like layering cheaper garments that uh maybe more fleece like

than high-end treated down um and utilizing that kind of stuff and always stayed warm same with gloves like my my best cold weather gloves are $14 at Murdoch's. They're leather mittens, and I buy a pair or two a year. They're the most warm. You can make chopper mitt. Yeah, you say that. Those are good. Because I run the, I call them Kermit the Frog gloves,

but those military surplus wool gloves, every year, just any time I can get a hold of them, I grab some of those because you can put them underneath other gloves. They're cheap. You can get them hold of them, I grab some of those because you can put them underneath other gloves. They're cheap. You can get them online for $10. As far as keeping your feet warm, maybe having boots a half a size bigger than normal, that little bit of air around your toes makes all the difference.

It's a good one. It's going to be hard to beat. I get so sick of this, man. People be people be like wish i had enough money to go hunt it's like come on i hunted and lived like comfortably for a long time as a magazine writer far below federal federal poverty level it's like nothing i always do the first doll sheep hunt i went on, I swear to God, I had a pair of boots I bought at Circle Square Pawn Shop. Full-on army surplus rainwear. I had a wool shirt that I had coming into somewhere and took another pair of pants and cut out material to sew on big pockets onto my shirt with a needle and dental floss. We go out in the woods of rags man

yeah on that trip my brother was wearing underwear he found in a shopping cart in the alley behind his house i'm not joking because he wore he later had to cut him up to make bandages and that got us talking about where he got him in the first place and he found him in a shopping cart it's like come on it's having great stuff is really nice because it frees your mind up to do other stuff it's it's it is it's more comfortable it's more pleasurable it's better but if it comes down to if it no joke comes down to you staying home or or like going or not going and you're going or not going based on whether you have like good technical apparel you're never going to be anything you're never going to be anything you're never going to be anything. You're never going to be anything and you're never going to be happy.

It's just like, listen, it's true. If it's like, oh, I can't go because I don't have, like, come on. How bad do you want it? I was in my 30s before I had a rifle that wasn't a hand-me-down rifle. It's like, give me a break. I'm left-handed. I shot right-handed rifles still in my 30s. When I got a left-handed rifle, I couldn't even figure out how to

use it. It's just like, if that's like really keeping you out of the woods. But that's not even answering this question. It's always the same principle. It's like go down, find every used store, every Goodwill, Salvation Army, St. Vincent in your town, and every month drop in there and see what they got laying around. Yeah.

And just make it your summer project you'll outfit yourself right it might not be the best up it's functional it might be awesome stuff my wife's hunting pants are from a goodwill that she found it was just nice you know in a ski town people drop it off because they'll never use it again yeah you know and she's got a high-end pair of pants that probably retail for 200 bucks that she got for 20 bucks yeah i went to in all fairness all the time i was doing that dude i was totally lusting after like really bomber great apparel but i'm talking about the difference between going and not going and you can go and be comfortable and you can be wishing and dreaming about getting some sweeter stuff but you just gotta at a point you just gotta decide you're just gonna go um and then figure the rest out keeping your toes warm uh yeah have a little bit bigger if you got some old pawn shop boots put some snow seal on

them use toe warmers like those little what do you call them hand warmers yeah hand warmers, like those little, what do you call them? Hand warmers, yeah. Hand warmers for your toes. Those things are great. And you go out and go after hunting season down to your local sporting goods store, and they're usually giving those things away because they don't last forever. Good one. The other thing about your feet is it's moisture management is such a huge deal. And if everything's working properly and you're in a situation where you're hiking and ascending you're perspiring your whole body's perspiring and and something i tell a lot of guys is you know layering is great but you got to actually layer you know

when you're about to ascend it could be very very cold use your layers use your layers you know put take your coat off and put it in your pack and the hardest thing to do strip down you know and you're only going to be chilly just for a second and then you're going to be hot and sweating well all that sweat goes to your feet and so managing moisture managing perspiration inside your hold on when you're saying all that moisture goes to your feet you're saying that that dripping down your legs goes to your feet? Well, I'm being figurative a little bit. You get hot and your feet sweat. But your feet are sweating too.

Right. And so I had a situation one time where a guy said, hey, I just got these boots and they're giving me trouble. I can't stay warm. And I got started talking to him and he worked as a security guy in a mountain town. And he said, yeah, I get dressed. And I said, well, hang on a sec. How far is your drive to work? He said, it's about an hour, 45 minutes to an hour.

I'm like, dude, how hot's your car? Smoking. It's 20 below zero outside. It's 75 degrees in your car. Sweaty feet. And by the time you get there, your feet are sweating. Yeah. I have a friend who cat hunts who won't blow hot air on his feet,

and he won't put his boots on until he gets there, and he keeps his boots in the back so his feet don't get over-sweated before he gets out and actually goes hiking. Exactly. Or even sweating. Putting on cold boots on purpose. Yes. Not necessarily because because you know

he's just trying to keep his feet dry the whole time yeah or you know packing an extra pair of socks and when you do get sweated up take the time to take them off get your feet aired out put on fresh socks you put on a fresh pair of dry socks and your feet feel like a million dollars it's like you just treated yourself to a day at the spa it's unbelievable put them back throwing a pair of socks in your pack is a great tip yeah it's good it sucks going last man because you guys keep stealing i got more to add i got more to add we were running mountain lions with a guy um and it was no joke it was 13 below zero he had uninsulated leather boots he says i he goes i got sweaty feet i do better all day i do better to keep my feet warm with uninsulated boots because the minute i

start doing anything they sweat up i do that same thing and when we're out working it's a real thing um when you got it when you start out in the morning it's a real thing with like having the discipline and having everybody get on board to have the discipline to strip down before you hike. Oh, yeah. Because people want to start, and then five minutes in, someone's got to go shed a layer. Then five minutes later, someone else is going to shed a layer. And they're already sweating. I don't have the best discipline.

I screw this up, too. But if you're smart, you're stripped down, and you're waiting for everybody to put their pack on. You're doing push-ups. Yeah, trying to stay warm. Because you're like, I just got to keep warm until we get going that's the person that winds up winning but it it requires so much discipline i still all these years later i still am always getting to the top some hill sweat my ass off because i was too lazy yeah i was too lazy to do what i know i should have done and then you're up there and then you want to talk about cold

then you're kind of cold it's's hard to recover from. Yeah. Trying to get that. Soaking wet, windy, sitting still cold. Exactly. It's different than the chilly, getting ready to walk cold. That's a killer cold. And you try to manage it, but you know how it is. Sometimes you're in a hurry.

You're fighting. You want to get there before the sun comes up, and so you're jamming, and you're just sweating. Yeah, some of these fights, you're not going to win. These are just things you have to learn to deal with. Yeah, there's sometimes you're just going to be a sweaty mess. Just going to be cold and sweaty. When I was a little kid, my dad pounded it. For him, it was scent control.

But like walking so slow out to your tree stand and carrying your clothes with you and always staying cold, staying chilly, and then putting your clothes on because he was always worried about that perspiration and deer smelling you. I don't want to talk about full circle. I remember we started talking about that a long time ago.

I think a lot of guys are afraid to be cold. It's okay to be cold a little bit. I mean, there is that, like you said, after you've done the hike and you're in the wind and stuff and that kind of full-body trimmer type stuff, that sucks. But just general cold, your feet being a little cold. Your hands being a little cold. There's nothing wrong with it.

Makes being warm a lot cooler. Feet being cold is no fun. We're going to find out how good Yanni is because if he can still come up with some original material, we'll see how good he is. You guys couldn't see that, but I just cracked my knuckles. Is that what that's called? Yeah, you did like a thing where you're like getting ready to. What I would have done if I was you is I would have spit into my palms.

Like in the old days when someone was going to use like a sledgehammer, spit into your palms like you're getting ready to work. Yeah, it's not totally original, but I think I can work off of the perspiration thing. And another thing that actually that same cat hunter that you were speaking of bruce was doing and he was a real stickler on was and we were day hunting but the pete's dryers or however you can do it but those boots they hold some moisture from you from your feet that sweat dry them out every night get that moisture completely out that'll keep your feet warmer pull your insoles that's the best you could do get a pete's dryer come on no it's saying when you're using your boots at day in and day out start them off dry yeah get that moisture out from the day before

hit me with another one come on dig um another one i've heard of i can't say i've ever done he's going into hearsay now. But I believe it works because it works around the whole having air inside your boot and having that zone of air insulation is having some sort of an insole. And then I've heard that people will actually take like, you know, the styrofoam that your ground meat comes in. We'll cut that out in the shape of an insole and put it underneath their insole to give another layer of air between them and the ground.

The stuff that the steak comes on? Yeah. You heard of that, John? Yeah, that's not bad. You like that? Yeah, I do like that. I can't say I've tried it, but I've done it. You start throwing in a little meat pack and materials

when you sell boots? Hey, you know? Remember when you were a little kid pack and materials when you sell boots. Remember when you were a little kid and your mom would – All right, here you go. I got it. I got it. Okay, I'm just going to keep working down right through the sole of the boot. And so if you're standing around and you're getting cold feet, and this is a mountaineering trick,

you take your butt pad and lay it down and stand on it instead of the cold ground or the cold snow. That's an ice fishing trick too. I just walk in circles. I'm dead serious. If I'm stationary at a glassing spot or whatever and you're freezing cold and your feet turn into ice cubes, I'll just walk and walk and walk in a little circle, a high step.

I always wondered what you were doing. I thought Pete was lost. See all that game running off that hill? Circles. Somebody's lost again. I'll give you another one. See all that game running off that hill? Some bitch lost again. I'll give you another one. You're on a roll. When you're sitting there and you're on that glass and tin, you know you're not going to go hiking off for a little while.

Loosen your boots up. Don't keep them cranked down. Leave some room in there. I'll give you another one. If you really have a cold feet problem, they make over boots. Yep. room in there i'll give you another one if you really have a cold feet problem they make over boots hmm yep and um we we met a dude what's that store in anchorage wiggies we met a dude who was saying like he had some over boots you need a separate backpack to carry him around but he was saying like you like actually cannot get cold with those over boots on and mushers you know mushers use them.

That's sweet. He's an interesting cat. Oh, you know about that? Yeah. That whole deal? Yeah. He is an interesting dude. Remember when you were a little kid and your mom would put those bread bags,

like line your boot with a bread bag to keep them waterproof? That's a good way to get cold. Plastic bag right on your foot. Oh, yeah, man. bread bag to keep them waterproof that's a good way to get cold plastic bag oh yeah man like like the like the wonder bread sack i remember like my mom like whenever he had moon boots my mom's sticking that bread bag down in there i can't remember why well it's like john was wearing waterproof yeah about being cold once in a while it's bad i remember learning how to duck out when i was a kid, probably eight years old or something, freezing, just miserable.

And what was the lesson? Get down and shut up. Yeah, I'm not so worried about you keeping warm as I am about you keeping quiet. Exactly. Are we good good Yanni yeah I mean we can keep going but we've been at it almost two hours

I'm good we can do some closing thoughts oh yeah there you go if anybody has any there you go Phil Phil right on us man closer

John I was prepared for you guys to corner us with the hot tip thing because that's oh listen don't you to corner us with the hot tip thing. Oh, okay. Listen, don't you worry. We're doing a hot tip-off. As soon as we wrap this up, we're going to do two hot tip-offs. I didn't know when that was coming.

We're doing a double hot tip-off. Very good. I got like six, so I'm ready to go. Oh, nice. You're going to take all my how to keep your feet warm. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, if you're interested in hot tip-offs well hot tip-off this is my concluding thought yanni if you're interested in what a hot tip-off is a hot

tip-off is like a bake-off except it's when you give hot tips and if you go to the meat eater tv what's the exact handle i don't want to mess it up me oh instagram Instagram? Yeah. At MeatEaterTV. Go to at MeatEaterTV on Instagram, and there we post hot tip-offs where you get a room full of people, or two people, and they have a hot tip-off contest. Who's got the hottest hunting and fishing tip? Very popular. Hot tip-offs. That's my concluder. Double concluder is buy the Meat eater fish and game cookbook recipes and techniques for every hunter and angler buy it now it is released and out and ready for you

pete concluder man uh i hope everybody has a great thanksgiving um i'm really excited for thanksgiving because i don't have to spend it alone hunting because i this is going to air post thanksgiving so you should say i hope you had a one i hope you had a wonderful thanksgiving because I don't have to spend it alone hunting. This is going to air post-Thanksgiving, so you should say, I hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving. I hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving and still are very full from your bountiful meal you had with your family. That's about it. Happy holiday season.

Can't wait for the Christmas music. Are you sure? Oh, I love it. I like that tune. I like that drummer boy tune. What's your favorite? You know, I'm a big sucker for Frank Sinatra. Oh, come on.

Really? Oh, my God. You're saying you don't like him? I loathe that man. What? Sinatra. My dad likes Sinatra. He's Italian.

I'm like so little Italian, I don't even like him anymore. My dad liked him because he was just enough Italian to like him. Oh, just like he oversells all that. It's like so little Italian, I don't even like him anymore. My dad liked him because he was just enough Italian to like him. The Rat Patton. Oh, just like he oversells all that. It's like, come on. I'm a D.C. Berman from the Silver Jews, man. He said all my favorite singers couldn't sing. That's why I'm a petty man. Dylan, petty.

Anyone that can't sing, I like. Just the grunge. Just getting it out. Just let me hear it. Just get it out. Sinatra didn't write any of that stuff. Yeah, that's all right. He was an interpreter.

Come on. Merry Christmas, everyone. I'm trying to think of a good Sinatra tune. Oh, there's too many. Well, thanks for having me on. Start spreading the news. Isn't that him? I didn't know I could sing that good. Start spreading the news. Isn't that him? I didn't know I could sing that good.

Start spreading the news. Oh, no. A whole new career. Phil, you were saying? I was going to say thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. It was fun to do. And, yeah, when your new bow shows up, hit me up and I'll –

Trick it out. We'll accessorize. Trick it out and maybe work on – Don't say form. Don't say form. No, your form's good. You were talking about your shot sequence, how you get in your head.

I got a lot of work I need to do, man. We can get you in your head. I made a lot of mistakes this year. Stone cold killer with that bow and arch. I made a lot of mistakes this year. I got a lot of work I need to do. We'll get you hooked up. Good, thank you.

John or John? Well, I hope everybody has a great holiday season as well and jumps right into Predators. Now it's time for that to start picking up. What about ice fishing? One of my favorite times of year. Ice fishing is good too. I don't know.

Are you a hard water angler? Oh, yeah. Really? Am I hanging out all winter? Yes. So we drove by one of my favorite burbot spots the other day, and the whole thing is glassed over right now. Nice.

Yeah. So it's only a matter of time before it's safe enough. I got me a brand-new four-man Eskimo, and then I got me a brand-new Ion auger. There ain't going to be a lake when I get down with it. There ain't going to be no ice. Ice is going to be gone. The whole thing ain't going to be a lake when I get down with it. There ain't going to be no ice. Ice is going to be gone. I'm going to drill the whole lake and then fish it on a boat.

Steve's going to be out on a floating ice cube. Actually, we did just make a resolution, me and my son yesterday. We're going to get a bunch of whitefish this winter. We're going to do a bunch of whitefish cooking. Nice. Smoking, pickling. Whitefish, crab cakes. River, mountain whitefish out of the river.

Yep. Those kind of whitefish. Yep. River whitefish. Great for buoy base. Mm-hmm. All kinds of stuff. So yeah, they'll be fishing.

Cool. Is that it? You got more? No, I've got a bunch of hot shooting tips, but it looks like we're not going that way. Just give us one right now. What the hell? All right. Exposed windage caps on your uh turrets on your scope

tape them shut tape them tape them tape them tape them they have no business being there just just windage or elevation too just just quit screwing around with this stuff now there's aren't there a bunch of funny stories about guys hiking with non-zero stopstop elevation turrets? Oh, yeah. Oh, I've had a half. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, just like spinning away, like left, then back right, and then left.

I've got no idea where I am. Best animal of your life. Talk about a buzzkill. Oh, my goodness. Bye. Concluding thoughts, John Edwards? Get the cookbook. It's insane.

I like this one. Yeah, yeah. We had a super cool event the other night with these guys, and the cookbook's great. I'm going to try to read a recipe and put it into work. So that's kind of my thing. Good. Thanks for having us at the place, man.

It was fun. It was a great venue. It was a fun event. Yeah. Yeah, Steve and Yanni both, I i mean you guys rocked the house but i mean how long how long did you meet and greet three hours four there till pretty late yeah it went long two and a half ish i meant to say like there were people who flew in from oh yeah missouri and jersey to montana from jersey from jersey was the farthest? I think so.

I heard Jersey, Oklahoma. Yeah, those are the two far ones. You know what we ought to do, John, is we should do an annual holiday party, man, at Sinead's. Like it. That'd be fun. We'd always have a reason. We don't have to worry about making up reasons all the time. Like it. Like cookbook launches. Just do it

normal. Holiday. And then we had this sort of super secret thing down the street at a little speakeasy. How'd that go? I've been talking it up. Was it all right? It was the best thing. Oh, yeah. I feel like I have another regret in life now.

And that was turning down that invite. I don't know what the rules are here. So I'm going to name names and nothing. But it was pretty good. Don't ruin anything. It was pretty good. Don't ruin anything. Yeah. our hair so i want to name names but it was pretty good it was pretty good anything yeah um my concluding thought is you guys don't even know about it steve does though but by the time

this airs if you have not heard about the new how to gut a deer meat eater bandana you've been living under a rock huh and if you haven't gotten one yet for a stocking stuffer you're being naughty set your set your new friend you new hunting buddies up set your old hunting buddies up if they really know how to gut a deer it'd be like a fun gag joke tell them they haven't really shot that many things they might need a little refresher talk about how you came up with the idea i came up with the idea i think two ideas sort of collided um i was packing around a orange bandana that has a bunch of like emergency survival tips on it i just always have a bandana in my rear pocket because my nose runs in cold weather no matter how good i'm feeling and i like to keep it clean it's not gang affiliated or no no it doesn't i don't it's not flopping out of my rear pocket my left one no i'm tightly tucked

away and um so i had that and then i think garrett's girlfriend was out gutting a deer by herself and referencing pictures on her cell phone that she had taken of the big game guidebook. That's right. I forgot about that. And so she's sitting there in the field, cold. It actually was cold. I think it was two years ago. We had a really cold

late November. Yeah, and Dirt was hunting with some other dudes somewhere else. That's right. His girlfriend's hunting one area, and he's off in some whole other area hunting with mugs with his buddies she gets a deer she got a deer so anyways yeah those i heard that story and i was looking at this bandana i was thinking you know it'd be a good idea to have instructions on how to gut a deer on a bandana that also has other uses like blowing your nose tying it onto an antler for extra safety when you're packing it out flagging your friend you and i are always flagging each

other especially in coos deer country with orange oh yeah man tie it on a stick yeah and be like go right go left that's right plus fashion fashion you know make a statement willie nelson man yeah about all that dude got done with a bandana tied around his head. Yep. That's right. We haven't even mentioned that you could wear it as a headdress. That's right. Headpiece.

So there you go. Go buy a bandana. I like that Willie song where he's trying to convince his lady. He's like, yeah, you know, I run around a lot, but I always come home to you. That doesn't go over well anymore. Thank you for listening. Is that all right if i say it i never get to say that yeah wrap her up all right thank you for listening Hey, folks. We'll be right back. It is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now, the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land,

hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX. If you visit onxmaps.com slash meet.