The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 154: Poaching

Episode Date: February 4, 2019

Steven Rinella talks with Ryan Callaghan, Pete Muennich, Ben O'Brien, and Janis Putelis. Subjects discussed: what’s up with eating songbirds? a big waidmannsheil to you!; Amish prejudice; gun safety; powercuts, edge habitat, and crawling deer; the mysterious mathematical formula behind Ohio's poaching fines; can you make hog jerky without getting trichnosis?; Pete's Lil baby Roadrash and other stories of folks saving critters; button buck antlers and over-developed pedicles; the best shooting rests in the field; the difference between party applications and party hunting; and more. Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are

without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meat. This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. We hunt the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. The Meat Eater Podcast. You can't predict anything. You know, with everybody out trying to get a Bigfoot, shoot a Bigfoot,

a dude wrote in that he canceled his ghillie suit order. And he includes a photo of the ghillie suit he was fixing to get next to that famous Patterson film, the Bigfoot walking by. Dude, his ghillie suit's a dead ringer, man. It was a smart move. Another guy wrote in with a correction about snakes. We were talking about this special new snake that got discovered from Mexico.

It was like, you hear about this, Pete? Just to recap. Years ago, some guys killed a snake, and in its belly was an unknown species of snake. It turns out it's its own, not only its own undescribed species, but it was an undescribed genus. Oh, wow. And I was pointing out, I was reading about how it had two peckers.

Now, a snake guy, a snake biologist guy wrote in, what do they call those fellers? Not herpetologists. Snake biologists? Snake feller? Snake feller? Snakereller? Snakefeller? Snaker. I thought you were asking what they call...

Yeah, pull that up. I thought you were asking what they call people with two peckers. No, no. But like, you know, an ichthyologist, right? Entomologist? Entomologist? What is it? Snake man.

Herpetologist. Herpetologist. Did I say that? Yeah. Yeah, that's your first entry. Man. Stick with the guns. On a roll. One roll. Anyways, he's your first entry. Man. Stick with the guns. On a roll.

One roll. Anyways, this guy has a sentence where he says, most podcasts, he's generalizing here, most podcasts that mention snakes have misinformation. For example, all snakes have two peckers. Oh, wow. So it wasn't as special. A snake is not as special as I thought.

Did you know that, Giannis? I did not know that. I didn't know that either. Not prior to reading that email. What's the point of the second one? Yeah, I don't know. Oh, didn't he say it? This part of that email that I didn't.

It said no matter the orientation of the snakes, they're capable of breeding, I think, is the point of the two-peckers. Oh, nice. But if, you know. That's a good idea. They can only be oriented so many ways. I don't. So these are. Snakes, man.

They get all wrapped up. Capable from all directions. So like all the jokes we made about two-peckers last time is now less funny. Oh, it's way less funny. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's just a normal. Plus, everybody that knows about snakes was sitting there thinking how stupid we were. How stupid.

Those jerks weren't funny to them at all. So nobody's found this species of snake alive, just dead in this one. No, and here's the thing. They only did the genetic work on it. I don't know what it was. I think they found it in the 70s. Oh, wow.

They did the work on it 40 years later. But the assumption is it's still there somewhere. They think it's a ground-dwelling snake that maybe feeds on insects. Guy wrote in from France. He says, bonjour. Who can do a good one? Bonjour.

Bonjour. Yours is not good. No, no. I've been there. I've been there. I feel like Cal can do it. Get it, Cal. Hit it, Cal.

Bonjour. Bonjour. Bonjour. I like that little inflection. That's Beauty and the Beast for you. Yeah, that's very nice. He writes in and says that he likes to hunt. He says, hereabouts, we like to hunt thrushes.

A thrush. He says it's the top of the top to eat. Now, a robin, your typical red-breasted robin is a thrush. But that's the thing, man. In Europe, they eat a lot of songbirds. Weird man. In Europe, they eat a lot of songbirds. Like in Italy, they hunt a lot of songbirds. Yeah, but they've also eradicated many, many species due to their varied tastes.

The normally eaten things. Yeah, and so at some point, they were like, no, no, no, trust me, bro. Robins are delicious. Well, I think they were eating them. You know that four in 20 blackbirds bake them in a pie? Yes. And the Egyptians ate little birds.

I mean, there's evidence of that. So Kyle, you're saying they're eating birds just because they ran out of other things to eat. Oh, they definitely did. I think they were eating it all. Now, a lot of it's gone. They're still eating little birds. Yeah. And we just have, because we have rules that made that not the case,

but I'm sure once upon a time here, here you can eat English sparrows, which I've eaten, because they're non-native, starlings, which I've eaten, non-native, and street pigeons. Yeah. I mean, there are recipes out there for crows too there's a season on crows but if you know you read that uh guy levaldeen's um uh on one in one of his books he touches on growing up in france and he had this killer childhood growing up in this old castle in france but he talks about like the poaching culture and the hunting culture and um you know there are a

lot of uh very well-known poachers out there that were able to kind of hold their heads high because it was like such a game to go out um but they would like drag net fields at night for ground nesting birds basically it was like almost like running a human powder powered saner almost where it's like guy sits there and then they like pivot around the field and as these birds flush at night they're coming up and into their net and then they just go straight from there to the markets and paris yeah really yeah a scoffier talks a lot about all the birds he's even got a big breakdown of all the up into their net and then they just go straight from there to the markets in Paris. Oh yeah, really? Yeah. Escoffier talks a lot about all the birds. He's even got a big breakdown of all the different

little birds, songbirds and stuff and what they're good for and what they use them for. But here, you know, with the migratory, you know, and there's songbird protections, which is something that happens here. My father-in-law was telling me that down east, North Carolina,

they used to trotline robins. Oh, wow. For eating. Tell you what, when I was growing up, we tried to – there's a kid down the beach from us who his parents called him JT. And JT one day was trying to catch a robin with a worm-baited hook and did what we called at the time a superset. He set his hook so aggressively

that without the friction of the line passing through the water, that hook came back and snagged him right in the eyebrow. Because you set the hook when it's underwater, not a lot happens. But on land, whap, JT. Did he have a scar? Didn't lose his eyesight.

I'd like to punch that dude in the nose, to be honest with you. Yeah. Not over that. Seems to be a history. Another time, another story. Dude from Germany. So speaking of fellows from foreign countries, a dude from Germany sends a big Weidmannschile.

Wait, what's that? Is that like a middle finger? A Weidmannschile. Weidmannschile. How do you spell that? I feel like that's way off. It's not close. W-A-I-D-M-A-N-N-S-H-E-I-L.

He says a big Wadman child. What? Yeah. They don't say Wadman. It would be like Wadman. Wadman Shields. I'm not even going to try now. This is embarrassing.

You know, my old man having fought in whiskey whiskey too uh in the european theater never forgave the germans and when he was uh uh when he would point out like when when pressed on this he would point out he would he knew how to say i love you in all the languages many languages and he'd say it you know with he'd put as good of a shine on each language's version of I love you and how, like, beautiful. But he'd be like, but in German, Ach, liebe dich. He's like, what kind of people can't even say I love you

in a good-sounding way? Yeah, there was no talking him out of it, man. They'd shout at him too many times. This dude from Germany, he says says as a foreman former german infantry officer and a passionate hunter he's talking about how we're talking about safe handling practices you know like using your safety on your gun and whatnot like that and um he says it's very surprising to hear american hunters talk about this i think a big part of the world is under the impression that all Americans have a cowboy mentality and are carrying around cocked and chambered guns all the time.

You did a good job bringing light into the dark and fighting the prejudice that American hunters are careless. So, Big Vodden, did you figure it out? Yeah, it's a hunting term originated in Germany to congratulate a hunter on his success in the field. Very appropriate. You're going to have to start learning how to pronounce it

so you start using that. I know. Hold on, listen. Oh, that's great. Yeah, it might come up. Let's keep going. You think it would? Let me see how it said.

Vodchman Sneel. Oh, there you go. I like that. That's not even close. Vodchman Shiel. Anyways. Is that Urban Dictionary? Mm-hmm.

Come on. We're good. I'll tell you what it is. It's Vietnames. Segwaying out of that, a guy wrote to say that, man, he says it destroys a segway when you point out that it's a segway. He's like, it's not. It's no longer a segway. You've made it not a segway. If you go like, hey, watch this segway.

He's like, you've just negated. He equates it. He's trying to put it in language that I would understand. And he says, let's say you snuck up within 20 yards of an elk and then yelled, look how close I am. No, I vehemently disagree with that guy. No. I feel like if you say it's a transition,

or you say it's if you're going to make that statement, it puts more pressure on it. So you have to be better. It elevates your game. Oh, I don't agree with him at all, but I just want to give it. I don't want to be fair. I want to be fair to his, you know, he's obviously a smart guy, and I just wanted to let him know that he's heard.

And I get it, but he'd have to take another stab at convincing me. And we're trying to have fun around here. Oh, he thinks there's fun to be had. He just thinks you should have a little tally and you can keep track. You can keep track and then later you can revisit after the segues have served their purpose of seamlessly without drawing attention into the transitions. Then later you could be like, did you notice earlier? Yeah, or the next episode, Michelle could tally

while she's doing tech notes. And then the next episode we could say, so last week, Steve had three segues. Wonderful. Giannis had 10. Giannis pulled a double. Giannis had 10. Giannis pulled a double segue.

A whole separate segue committee that gets to vote on each episode. Who has the slickest segues? Segueing from that, a couple guys wrote in about this thing, HB25, which is a bill in Hawaii. Did you hear about this? Yeah. It would prohibit you from keeping, in Hawaii, it would prohibit you from keeping a firearm or ammo in your hotel room in the whole damn state which for a traveling hunter creates a lot of problems a lot of problems for law enforcement it creates a lot of problems i mean how's that going to be enforced it says select individual

it was some exclusion so i don't even know how it would deal with that but i remember thinking like some guy he's like fixing the he's like planning out a crime and he calls his bar and he's like ah i'm not able to do that crime after all because this is reading about how you can't keep a gun in your hotel room come on i went to school here in montana msu in bozeman and uh in the dorms they had a gun locker and as a 18 year old freshman in college you could walk into the front lobby of the dorm and hand over your shotgun. I duck hunted a lot my freshman year in college. And I remember walking into my dorm

and handing over my 12-gauge over the counter to the resident, you know, whoever was running the show in there, and they locked it up. I don't know if that's still a deal at Montana State University. How old is the resident, the RA? Yeah, the RA.

I was handing it over to a 20-year-old behind the counter. In a dorm room situation. Correct, yeah. Very similar to a hotel, though. That's like if you were 10 and a 12-year-old was your babysitter. Yep, that makes sense. With this thing, it's like, what are they driving at? You're supposed to leave it out in your car?

It's a lot better. If you're trying to drive at it, having it not fall into the someone the wrong hands yeah yeah uh well you know i remember in high school when they brought in the rule that you couldn't have guns on campus and i would run my trap line after school so i kept a little i kept i had one of those 20 gauge 22 over and unders that everybody owned you You know, it was a Marlin, that little thumb, thumb cocker or thumb selector on it for your barrels. And you'd always mess that up. Woodcock, woodcock, jump up.

22. Nah, 22 or like, you know, whatever. Yeah, I messed that thing. It was a lot of trouble, but I loved it. But I remember that rule comes into place and I go marching down to the principal's office and talk about what a bind that was going to put me into. He's like, oh, yeah, don't worry about it.

Yeah. Don't worry about it. Just was like, oh, yeah, well, you know, that's fine. Times have changed. Does it explain exactly what they're trying to stop? Is it something after the Vegas shooting? Yeah, but he didn't tell anyone. Yeah.

That doesn't make any sense. They weren't like, oh, yeah, bring them all up. Yeah, pretty sure he didn't ask the front desk for permission. But yeah, I don't know what, it just seems, I don't understand it. Yeah, it seems like another cluttered lawn. It seems like you're putting people in a bad position. Speaking of that, a lot of people, a lot of people wrote in about,

just talking about like safe handling practices in general. One guy even said he hunts with his in-laws and his in-laws are almost antagonistic toward what he regards as like pretty standard safe practices. And he's gotten to the point where he doesn't even like to be around them and he can't bring it up. Like, hey, let's follow some safety protocols here. And they're like, they shoot him down.

Figuratively. Yeah, figuratively. Sorry, it's bad. Makes him uncomfortable. Another guy wrote in, he says, I traveled to West Virginia for the holidays to visit with my wife's family and hunt with her great uncle. Now, her great uncle is 80.

His name is Jack. This guy, when this 80-year-old dude was a little kid, he was out rabbit hunting with his uncle. And a rabbit runs off and he doesn't get a crack at it. And the uncle chastises him for having, if you weren't using the safety, you'd have gotten a shot off. So then he goes from the 1950s to present day, refuses to use the safety. Wow. Because of that one getting his balls busted by his uncle all those years ago. Then this uncle, the uncle that chastised the kid for not getting the shot off at the rabbit because he's using his safety,

is out coon hunting, and come morning he hasn't returned. So they send people out to look for him. Search party goes out and the grandpa, right, or the great uncle, the 80-year-old dude named Jack, who was chastised as the boy, he's part of the search party that goes out to find the uncle who chastised him for using his safety. And sure enough, he's laying there dead, a bunch of dogs running around, his coonhounds running around by his side. And from the way everything was laid out, it seems as though he might have leaned his gun against a tree and one of the dogs triggered it or knocked it over or something. I remember going out with a group of guys all,

this is when I was young, young, and it was one of those situations where you're kind of setting up, everybody sets up around a big Canyon mouth that the elk could disappear into. And you're just kind of posting up and waiting for elk to come out. Hopefully on your, your part of the Canyon where you get posted up as they, they start coming out to feed at night. And, um, I'm the youngest guy by at least 10 years.

And, you know, you're all sitting there in a relatively small area, and you're like, pew. It's like, all right, somebody got something. Nice. Get the cutting knives out. Right. And all kind of got picked up, and it's like, well, somebody got something. Somebody got something, and I'm like the young, excited kid.

Like, well, where is it? Where is it? Where is it? And I was like, oh, you know what? I didn't shoot anything. My gun went off because, you know, I was all set up. Wasn't even looking at it. And, uh, and, uh, grabbed the gun and the trigger must've snagged and went off. And I was like, well, didn't you have your gun on safe?

Right. I was like, kid right out of hunter safety. And the guy proceeds to tell me in front of everybody that, well, you know, Ryan, when you're in a really safe situation, it's okay to put a round in and have the safety off. And all the other adults are just kind of like, no sound. And then as soon as the group breaks up, my buddy Larry grabbed me and he's like, hey, pard. He's like, that guy has rounds go off all the time.

Don't listen to that guy. Don't get near that guy. Yeah. I can see the not, like our general practice of not chambering around until things get real gamey. I can see that some people are not going to buy into that. But the idea of the safety issue, I mean. Asking for trouble.

I mean, how could somebody even make the point? Especially with everybody rejiggering their triggers these days. Everything's super hot. I'll put a Geissele in. It's a 0.8-pound trigger. Really? That's interesting. We had a backpack come into Stone Glacier for a warranty situation.

The guy sent it in, and he said, a hunting accident. Please fix this if you can. And it looked like a dog had chewed up on his backpack, a lot of little holes that kind of looked like, at first glance, looked like teeth marks. And I called him. I was like, did your dog get on your backpack?

It's pretty normal for dogs to chew up packs. It is? Oh, because they get blood on them and whatnot? Yeah, big time. Salt and probably number one destruction of packs is by dogs. Really? Number one pack warranty claim is dog chew. Absolutely.

My kids want a dog real bad. I'm going to tell them about this. I can't afford a backpack. You guys love dogs and backpacks. So I call the guy. I'm like, so what happened? And I wanted him to fess up. This dog chewed on his backpack.

And he was like, honestly, I was out grouse hunting with my wife. My wife leaned her 12-gauge against the tree, knocked it over. 12-gauge falls over, goes off, peppers my backpack. Really? And it just lit up his backpack. It shattered. The carbon stays inside of it and just put all these little tiny micro holes all throughout the frame and bag that I interpreted as dog bites,

but turns out it was a shotgun. I feel like everybody has an accidental discharge story, whether it involves you or someone you know. It's not all that uncommon. We were standing in the Vortex booth at SHOT Show here two days ago, and they have a scope in one of their Vortex VIP warranty, right? Yeah. If you can find a shard, they'll send you a new scope.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And here's this scope, and through the bell of the scope is a bullet hole. No. Yes. And I was like, oh, my God. What's the story on this? Well, it turns out a guy had.

Shot his gun? No, I had taken a, this, it got sent in by um a retailer right a gun store owner um and somebody had come in with a firearm and asked somebody at the counter to check it out and and nobody during the course of this check to, because who would bring in a loaded firearm into a store, and they put it on the deal, and the guy ends up shooting a case full of rifle scopes.

See, that's where, like, with the safe handling, that's where the part comes where, like, the whole part about muzzle control. If there was no question that nothing accidental would ever happen, then you wouldn't have the extra layer

of... The reason you don't sweep your muzzle around is because of the very real possibility that there are ways in which you could have a discharge. So it's like, never point it anywhere, which is an acknowledgement of you never know.

And then the other stuff is all layered over that with the fundamental idea of like where is it pointing in case the unspeakable. Well, here's something that came up with me recently. Like if you mount your – Stone Glacier has like a rifle mount on their packs. Yes. Most pack companies will make like a little rifle sling you can mount on your pack. And while that's great, I feel like I want it on my shoulder because if it's just on my pack and it's mounted behind my shoulder and I have no control of the muzzle, as I would if it was slung over my shoulder, I can bend over to go under a tree.

I can duck down to do this. If I'm hunting with somebody, I have no control over my muzzle other than where my body goes yeah i still like those things though i like it they're comfortable i was kind of jealous on a recent hunt of the folks that had them but then you can see like when you're crawling through some brush or you're dicking around somewhere like you're you're now wherever your oh yeah your shoulders point is where your barrel points. That's a good point. Lots of dudes wrote in. I have something to add. Please.

I recently AD'd a gun. We were sighting in some rifles, and a fellow was using my rifle, had never used my rifle before, and it had a three-position safety, so I was explaining the three-position safety. But this particular one is aftermarket, and so it's not quite, if you don't have it exactly in the middle position, if it slides a little bit forward out of that position,

it's actually live, right? So you got to be very careful that if you're going to use the middle position of this safety, that it is in that middle position. And he had been handling the gun. And then he came over to me and we hadn't started shooting yet and I assumed very wrongly that the gun was unloaded. And so I went to explain to him how it worked. With him pointing in a safe direction.

Him pointing in a safe direction and I flipped it forward to that spot where the gun will go off and I said, see, watch this. I touched the trigger. Were you surprised? I take full responsibility. Even though that person,

you can say, well, no, that person had every right to have that gun loaded. He was about to sit down at the bench and start shooting. I personally, if I was going to start messing around with guns and I had a loaded one and I was going to another person, I'd say hey bro oh this is got one in the chamber here yeah but it's still up to

the person that touches that trigger absolutely you know that's what we're talking about with guys up you can stand there in front of him check it hand to him he just opens right back up and checks it for his on his own oh yeah yeah why not you're like dude i just checked it and as a guide i feel like i used to be much better about it. Because we'd have even guides open them up, you know, to show. And then I'd stick my pinky in there. Oh, yeah. To see if I could feel one. You know, in case for some reason your eyeballs weren't.

I'm always fingering my rifles. I put my pinky in there just to check. That's definitely going to be the quote of this podcast. I always, I find myself even in hunting situations, when I flip the safety off, I'm getting ready to shoot something, I'll say like going hot, even if no one else is there. I'll go alive, going hot, because I'm just so used to every time that safety flips off, and I know that I'm about to send one down range.

I always, in my brain, going hot, going live. I find myself after somebody shoots something repeatedly everybody's jacked up and excited I just grill people gun unloaded gun on safety and then I'll ask you again two minutes from now that gun's still unloaded

because everybody's all jacked up everybody's excited to go get to the deer or whatever it is it's very easy to rack another one in and the gun never gets put on safety. Second nature to reload it. Because you're thinking about a follow-up. Yeah.

That's a time when I hear, like, in our circle, like when you get up to something, and everybody's getting ready to do whatever, and you're going to start skinning. There's a lot of verbal checks around. Oh, yeah. A lot of verbal checks around safety. I got one on that. I wasn't here for this, but a buddy of verbal checks around safety.

I got one on that. I wasn't here for this, but a buddy of mine growing up, y'all ever remember the Knight disc rifle that was out for a time? It was a muzzleloader. You put a shotgun primer in a little orange disc, and then you loaded that in, and then the hammer cracked that thing. I know Knight, but I didn't know about that. Yeah, it was a disc rifle for a time. He was out with a buddy skinning a deer, gutting a deer.

And he had its legs splayed open. He was in the middle gutting. And his buddy was coming over to check. He just walked up to check the buck, see how big it was, and leaned over. And the guy felt the muzzle of the gun in his back, in his liver. Oh, my gosh. And he turned around to be like,

because the guy was leaning over him to look like this and had the gun pointed down in his back. He wasn't paying attention. The hammer drops, he just didn't have a disc, didn't have a primer in the muzzleloader. Got very lucky. If he would have had a primer in the muzzleloader, the dude would have been dead right there. And then heard the hammer drop, heard the snap of the hammer, and turned around to see a dude there with a gun pointed into his liver

like point blank range my uh my friend and co-worker lyle hebel at stone glacier got shot in the guts when he was a kid by a a uh really a green horn hunter yeah lyle grew up out in the sticks out in wyoming and uh they took a buddy out and introduced him to hunting and i don't know if they were i'm gonna butcher the story but i don't know if they. And they took a buddy out and introduced him to hunting. And I don't know if they were, I'm going to butcher the story, but I don't know if they were hunting rabbits or whatever they were doing, but I believe it was a small caliber rifle, like a.22. And by the end of the horrible story, Lau had a.22 bullet in his guts. Really?

Yeah. My old man got shot in the 40s. Yeah. With a shotgun, right? Someone shot him in the foot hunting rabbits. But I'd never even, like, it's funny because I'd never even seen, like, My man got shot in the 40s. Yeah. With a shotgun, right? Someone shot him in the foot hunting rabbits. Whoa. But I've never even, like, it's funny because I've never even seen, like, a close, I mean, I haven't been around even, like, a close call.

But, God, you hear about it, man. It's scary. Keep your stuff. Muzzle control. Yeah, that'll solve every one of those problems. Safety first. Yeah. Lots of guys wrote in.

Treat every, sorry. He's never going to let this... Treat every weapon like it's loaded. Every gun's loaded. The gun club I used to belong to in Washington, they had some major general's principles or whatever. Well, the NRA has the safe gun handling

laws. Don't point at anything you don't... It's always loaded. Don't point at anything you don't intend to shoot and never put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire. enter a safe gun handling hard hard to mess up with those three rules it rules out a lot of they're pretty foul everyone followed that we wouldn't be having the conversation i shot one of those remingtons one time i don't remember what make or model of the gun this is but those remingtons when you flipped them from uh fire or safety to fire when the oh you're talking about the Remington 700s?

Yes. When they were having that defense? Yeah, I was trying to shoot a fox on Kodiak one day and got lined up on this fox. He's like 200 yards away, and I flipped it from safety to fire. And boom, gun went off. What are you talking about? And that scared the –

Because you had a finger on it? No, I did not touch the trigger at all. Oh, I know. Remington 700 was a big controversy. A lot of people ended up getting shot. There was a defect. That was years ago, right? Yeah, four or five years ago.

This was 2013, I think. Oh, my God. Lots of people wrote in about deer crawling. We talked about a guy that was saying, I watched a deer crawl on its knees across a power line cut. Our buddy Steve Jones, who's a wild game chef, a very good one, me and Yanni have fed off his cookings.

I like that guy. Hopefully we'll get to do that again. Good dude. He says, now, he says, he's similar, sees three does, three antlerless deer, cross a power cut on his farm. This fellow's from Missouri. Two of them cross normal, as normal as any other deer. The third and largest, when she crossed the cut,

she crouched down and slunk across the cut without pausing or stopping. Once she got across, she stood back up and walked away like any other deer. She was moving quickly enough. He's like, I'm positive she was not walking on her knees. As one guy that wrote in to say he saw a deer walking on his knees. It was just a deep crouch and it looked extremely weird and definitely appeared to be an attempt to reduce her visibility. Another guy wrote in and said, another guy wrote in and said he flat out watched a buck crawl on its knees. They were making a deer drive and he's, he looks back and his dad's coming through,

and he watches Bucks go down and crawl on his knees for 75 yards right in front of him. No one ever believed him. He says when he heard us talk about it, he says he about drove off the road. I was wondering, thinking about this the other day, I was wondering why the deer, why would it crawl across the power line? It's wide open. What do you... No, there's a lot of...

You get brushy power cuts. There's a brushy power cut. They're typically brushy. I was thinking like, okay. It's all second growth. It's all regeneration, man. I was just thinking. Staying, keeping low pro.

And they know that people are always perched up on power lines. That's one thing. I've perched up on more than one power line in my life. I've shot a lot of turkeys on power lines. Yeah, I've killed a turkey under a power line. Yeah, we got a turkey this spring. I'm one of those super loud power lines. It's a little crack.

I killed two under there where you're like hunting. You're trying to get into the peacefulness. And all of a sudden, it's like. Nature. Yeah, it's electricity. But that's the thing is like it's one of those like power cuts one of those weird things where typically people are like oh yeah any activity of man is negative but if you if you live in some poor and i grew up in some poor low grade

poor ass soil country where the typical like like a forest there kind of matured into, because sandy soils, and it kind of matured into like small white pines and bushy little scrub oaks. Like not rich place. But power cuts were good. Edge habitat, man. Yeah, because it created brush and it created edge habitat. Because you can go out in the woods in most places,

you can look 200 yards. Just not a lot of cover. So power cuts, like as a fur trapper, dude, you'd get as excited about a power cut as you did a river. Things traveled on power cuts. I caught a lot of fox on power cuts because they can hunt the brush. And there's usually like a little road down them

so it gives like a game trail that runs down through the brush and everything would run a power cut. I know a lot of guys that put a tree stand up, see a power cut, put a tree stand up every time. Yeah, edge habitat. This is a break, a break in something in a travel corridor.

Well, that deer that was crawling must not have thought, well, a guy might be in a travel corridor well that deer that was crawling must not have thought well a guy might be in a tree so he could see down either way whether i crawl or not it's hard to say how much the deer thought about it but it is noteworthy and i and i just want to acknowledge like i have a hard time picturing it but i want to acknowledge that there's people out there debating this point a little bit of follow-up too on, Yanni's going to explain this one. The Ohio, a guy shot a gigantic whitetail in Ohio. 228? 228-inch buck. 26 points.

Is this the world record one? That was Iowa. That was 320. Yeah, this is a poacher. A poacher in ohio it's a little different and he did a bunch of crazy stuff like he had a doe and then he like cut one deer's head off and tried to act like another deer anyway he had all kinds of stuff he was shady shady it wasn't like he messed up and made a mistake it was like he was he killed a buck saw a big buck, shot the big buck, tried to switch everybody's heads around. Just weird stuff. And winds up super guilty.

Super guilty sound. Super guilty seeming stuff. And gets a fine that's $28,000. This is the Amish guy. That's right. Everyone likes to point out that the brother's Amish, but I mean, come on. I just made it as a descriptor.

If he was Methodist, would that be a big part of the story? Well, he's probably wearing a certain type of clothing. Well, they said he was unavailable for comment. But I feel like it's like a little... He did not respond to text messages. It's not racist, because it's not like a racial

thing, but it's like a prejudice. Everyone's like, Amish man. The headlines, Amish man. It people everyone's like amish man the headlines amish man it would never be like baptist man dude doesn't have the same i gotta tell you i was going through mountain lion attacks you know there are the mountain lion attacks in in washington last year and you know i'm searching through google and they're all the exact same story, but one of the headlines, I feel purely in order to make it stand out a little bit more,

is instead of cyclist attacked by a mountain lion, Jewish cyclist attacked by a mountain lion. Yeah. They're a racist cat, man. They're even getting, it's gotten this bad. The anti--semite cat hey folks exciting news for those who live or hunt in canada and boy my goodness do we hear from the canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes and our raffle and sweepstakes law

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OnXMaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX club, y'all. Yeah, I don't get it. I don't know. Amish might be more of a descriptor. You could picture what he might look like. Oh, yeah. I know, but I'm a little bit uncomfortable with...

I'm a little bit uncomfortable with... I don't know what it's playing into. I don't know what it's feeding into. No, I agree. Yeah. To have your... But it's a big denominator. But it's like, I don't know.

It just makes you slightly slightly uncultivated. Why would it not be just a poacher? It's true. Like, I don't know. It's like even worse, you know. They keep it to low profile maybe,

and maybe they're known to, I don't know, to never do any bad. These are the exact stereotypes that you're talking about. No, I know. That's what I'm saying,

but that's why I'm saying why someone would say, well, you wouldn't believe it. It wasn't just any poacher. Freaking Amish guy. You wouldn't believe this. You know the parable of the Good Samaritan? No.

Well, the thing with the Good Samaritan is Samaritans were known as horrible people. So people are always like, what you're saying is... A good bad guy. Yeah, you're saying like, these guys, the Samaritans are the worst of the worst. Against all odds. So yeah, a lot of people don't realize that that's part of it.

Like the Samaritans had a very bad, I gather, I hope I'm not offending any Samaritans out there, had a real bad reputation. And then so it's like, the fact that one turns out being good is real surprising. So when you say like an Amish poacher, I don't know if you're saying like these pillars of virtue or if you're saying just goes to show you. Yes. Those are certain religious people. So we were talking about,

so someone just wrote in to explain how they had come up with the $28,000 fine, right? Yeah, which is a good story. Yeah. And I tried to get a hold of the legal department over at Ohio Game and Fish. I should have called you, Pete. Yeah. That's where you hail from.

Maybe you would have said, oh, yeah, call Cindy. But I couldn't get an answer on our question. They have a formula on how they figure out how much to fine a person. Interesting. It's exponential to the size of the antlers. The formula is

gross score minus 100. That's the part that gets me. Go ahead and finish. To the second power times Me too. Yeah. To the second power times $1.65. Wow. So this buck was 220-something.

Yes. Take 100 off. So you ask 100 off and then square that number. And it times it by $1.65. I love the sentiment. And I'm sure that someone could explain it. But I don't get the part about, was it like, without taking $100 off, and being like, man, that's a big fine, how can we make it less? And someone's like, well, let's take $100 off, then square it.

Was there any more detail to this? Because that seems nonsensical. It's how they calculate it. No, we're trying to figure out where it came from. Like, where did the $1.65 come from? I'm sure that there is a... Repeat it. It's gross score minus 100.

Yep. Then square that number. Squared times $1.65. Times $1.65. I love it. So for example, we know that a 230-inch deer gets you about $28,000 in trouble. And actually, I did the math. 230 ended up being at 27,885.

Because there were some add-ons, I think. So let's just say you're not that lucky of a poacher to get into 230, and you just kill a 150-incher. And they start at 125 in Ohio. That's when the trophy starts. Oh, so that's when it's like a different kind of poaching. I like this system, man, because I think if a dude, if a guy like shot, if a guy shot the spike, it's just, I don't know, man.

It's like, I don't, I'm not condoning anything, any kind of violation or poaching, but it's a guy that poaches trophy class stuff in my mind is a different kind of poacher. But I feel like this might be encouraging folks just shoot the spikes. Be like, Hey, that spikes for us. Now that we've given the formula, the guys will be out. Poachers will be out.

It's not that bad. Okay, run it out. Let's say he shoots a forky. A 20. Just do it. A 28-inch spiker. You can't even subtract 100 inches from a spiker. So it's a negative.

I think the state pays you at that point. That's what it is. That's got to be what it is. Maybe. Well, no, what it is is... Because the restitution, the trophy restitution doesn't kick in until it gets to a certain size.

This is... I mean, the way this is set up is that animal has been... that belongs to the state has been to the people of the state has been costing the people of the state money as it grows, right? Yeah.

And by the time it gets into a trophy class animal, it has lived much longer and eaten much more. And it has a greater cultural value. That's the thought that tried to recoup the grass the thing ate? No, man. You're saying that management is expensive.

Oh, okay. We're creating a system. We're not talking about his day-to-day diet. No, no. What do you have for breakfast? It's expensive to the state. I think you can justify it various ways. It's expensive to the state. It takes work and effort to create a situation

which deer can become three, four, five years old. Gotcha. It's like, it happens not by accident. Correct. Absolutely committed to allowing it to happen. And you just screwed the whole thing up. And part of what you're saying. There's a lot of people who are paying real good money,

buying licenses and paying lease fees and putting out tree stands. And all of a sudden you robbed everybody of that. Now you're going to pay off. What if you shoot a doe it's probably different set of you don't get the you still get a fine there's no like trophy restitution but then also i think if i'm hearing you correctly steve you're also like the odds of a man who is poaching because he is he or she i suppose this poacher is poaching because they're starving to death, and them having to come up with a 237-inch deer.

Yeah. You guys are real lucky. Real, real lucky. Real unlucky. I see both sides of it. I'd be like, well, poaching's poaching. It doesn't matter. I see that.

I also see that if you're out trying to poach trophy class animals it's just a worse like all crime is relative well it would make sense to me if there's like the baseline punishments and this is just an extra add-on in case you're in in case that deer is bigger than or scores bigger than 125 inches. Yeah, well, the exponential, you know, the squaring really does a lot because the 150-incher only costs you $4,000. Oh, man. Yeah. They don't want you getting them big old booners, man.

No. No. Well, just even on, like, the poacher because you're starving to death example, right? Even if you are poaching for big-ass trophy-class animals, likely not going to be your first foray into the poaching field, and you're coming up with a 237-inch buck. Yeah. Even if you are dead set on a big trophy-class critter.

You probably got some real poaching under your belt by the time you come up with one of those. Yeah, you've actually gotten good at it. That's an interesting subject. You want to hear one that makes its own gravy too? Here's another poaching case that makes some gravy. You guys ready for this? Before I do that, a guy asked can you make hog jerky without getting trick? Got to get it up to temp, man. Sure. When I got reported, when I got trick analysis, it's a CDC reportable disease,

so you had to go down and I was reported in King County. And the guy that got it before me got it in 2007. He got it from Mountain Lion Jerky. Oh, wow. Because if you're not bringing it up to temp, you're not destroying the cis. So if you're taking trick-positive meat and just air drying it or drying it at 100 degrees, Not good enough. You're still susceptible to getting tricked.

So I'm assuming he's talking wild hog jerky. Yeah. You got to bring it up. I haven't made a whole lot of bear jerky, but when I have, we just threw it in the oven and stuck it in the oven at 200 for a long time just to get it up to temperature? No.

What do you got to think about that? So the answer is yes, you can. He's saying, let me, he says, can you make hog jerky without getting trick? My answer would be, well, that's a, I don't like how it's phrased. Certainly there are plenty of people. Yes, the answer is yes.

He's saying, can you? Now, if he said, can you make hog jerky and be certain you will not get tricked, then the answer is no. So can you make hog jerky without getting tricked? I'm sure it's been done. Is that a good idea? No, it's not a good idea. Yeah.

Because you are not killing the… Yeah, most likely you're just going to end up with a little more overcooked jerky than you'd probably like to have. Yeah. Jerky that's been cooked is not as good as jerky that's been dried. What's the special number we go for to kill trigonosis? 160.

160. 160. I recently had a debate with someone where they're saying I was saying you got to cook javelina do you know of anybody getting tricked from javelina and I had to acknowledge that no I don't

they're like omnivorous they eat all kinds of meat I've actually man yeah I've eaten it has to be a possibility I've eaten undercooked to be a possibility i've eaten undercooked i've eaten undercooked javelina before i mean like not undercooked but under 160 i'm sure some of the dice man i'm sure someone's looked into type that up yanni that's a good

that's a good point has anyone ever gotten a trick from a javelina uh it's been it's been linked to walrus oh bear, wild pigs. Like you said, why wouldn't a hobo? Mountain lions carry it. It's not like it's just a pork thing. No. Mountain lions carry it. Wolves.

Yeah, all that stuff. Even like weasels, rats, mice. There's no way that a javelina, which will go and eat a dead dog if you let it. It's exempt from this. Is not getting it. So there's no ungulates that carry. that i know of no no even no white tail deer have now been proven to eat birds out of their nests yeah yeah people have seen it that's all you wonder that's crazy man wonder very weird if you got a deer out and your kids like let's see what's in the stomach little baby

birds come on That's horrible. Tell that dude in Europe, even our deer, eat songbirds. Okay, here's the poaching case. This is the one that I think makes its gravy, makes its own gravy. And the way it's been covered is annoying. Okay, this is a tricky one. This is a tricky one. So there's some guys in prince williams sound um and they

kill a blackberry out of its den and kill some cubs out of the den now a couple things that are interesting. One, this den is under surveillance by Fish and Game for a study. So these guys do it all on camera. So there's no doubt about guilt here. They get them on film doing this. One thing that's interesting is they kill a black bear sow and kill some cubs, but then butcher the, butcher the sow for meat and haul off the meat, but then later decide to come back and get the cubs. These guys get hit with some heavy duty fines, uh, uh, $20,000 fine, jail time,

and then they lose a ton of stuff right down to boats. Boat, trailers, guns, all kinds of stuff. I'm looking at this publication called The Hill, and this is where this thing starts to make its gravy. So these guys get humongous fines, and this thing confuses this rule that we've talked about a ton of times, which everybody keeps reporting

in the most irresponsible way possible, where in Alaska, there was recently, under the Obama administration, they put some game management practice restrictions on refuge lands in Alaska. So you're talking like 13% of the total land mass of Alaska is in the refuge system.

And the federal government came in and had some federal overlays of management practices that could not be used by the state on refuge land. And it had to do, it has to do with like bear baiting, with den digging, digging blackberries out of a den with artificial light. Like they banned it where the state couldn't decide to use management practices on refuge land. Meanwhile, the state is able to do whatever management practices they desire on the other 87% of the state,

and in most cases, do not allow these management, don't allow these management practices. So this is a funny example where here's a guy hunting, not on a refuge. He kills a bear in his den, goes to jail, gets a massive fine, loses all of his equipment, loses his boat, loses his guns, can't hunt anymore, right? Not on a refuge land. It's in a place where the state does not allow the killing of cubs.

So this piece then reports it, and they point out like, oh, they do so little research, they point out that, oh, it used to be, they tried to make it illegal, but Alaska won't, doesn't want it to be illegal. It's like, no.

Not exactly right. This is Alaska deciding that in this place, that's not legal and then prosecuting the piss out of a guy who breaks the rule. But you keep seeing this narrative pushed in the news that somehow Alaska wants to just gloves off, dig every bear in the state out of its den and kill it. And people will not, no one, no one will report this responsibly

and explain what it is that they're talking about. They keep making a big deal about shooting, like, oh, they're going to shoot caribou out of boats. That happens in one game management unit on the North Slope where people have traditionally intercepted migrating herds of caribou as they swim across big rivers. So the whole state, you can't. There's a place that you can't where they feel that it's judicious

and conforms to their management policies to do it there. But no one will report this properly. That's what makes the headline. There's a lot of details around that case, too. Those guys got, what, a 30-day? There was some jail time involved. It was like a 30-day sentence sentence but it was commuted maybe the son was commuted and the father's uh was to be carried out i believe because the kid was only he was i think 17 when it happened but the father also falsified who killed what

and lied and falsified some documents and did some things that that were yeah correct above just dad somehow during this exchange dad uh wanted to make it so he had shot the bear, not the kids. It was Dad's tag that ended up on the sow. Oh, really? And they've got game camera. As you said, they've got game camera footage of all of it. Jeez. All of it.

You know what's a little bit too late, speaking of the fine thing? That's good. The kid also, part of his sentence, which is like community service, suspended jail time, it's a little bit like a little bit too late speaking of the fine thing is that's good the kid also part of his sentence which is like community service suspended jail time fines they also sentence him to take hunter safety course two years uh two years no hunt two years no hunt for that no it's good ah what do you what do you do oh i mean i just feel like these folks have been living underneath a rock somewhere it's like oh yeah i mean they're obviously they came back two days two days later to try to clean it up like they obviously knew what was going on right

yeah so throw the book at him i I say. Yeah, that's not cool, bro. Do you want me to tell them about the Pennsylvania guy that might get a couple of fines for not poaching, but doing something good? Oh, yeah. This is something we should talk about. I've been wanting to talk about this. Yeah.

This is a crazy story. Yeah. This fellow gets a call from his buddies buddy who must live on or he's near a lake and he says hey man a bunch of deer fell through the ice struggling so he shows up on the scene some of the deer have gotten out but there's a small buck it's a spike or a forky and it was a fork yeah he's still stuck in the water. So there's already some rescuers there, fire department, I think, and they get the buck out. And I think as the story went, there was already some management,

wildlife management folks there on the scene. And the guy volunteers to take the buck home and try to warm it up. Nobody says no. So they're like, yeah, because the buck is not moving, right? He's just laying there barely breathing. So these figures all stick him in the garage, throw some blankets on him, and hopefully get his temperature back up and run out the garage door.

Well, I think he's in the garage for 36 hours or something and unfortunately dies. Oh, no. Well, then the Pennsylvania Game Commission comes around and says, you shouldn't have taken that deer. You can relocate wildlife, but it has to be from one wild area to another. You can't take it home and keep it alive. Now he's looking to find up to $800.

The deer died. Talk about that. That's very hard to prove because look at where white tails live. That could be as wild as, that dude's garage could be just as wild as his backyard.

I would disagree with the garage as wild as anything. Maybe it needed to be outside next to the driveway, next to the shrubs, and then I see what you're saying. The picture he's getting is a picture. It's like he's got it laid out with a blanket and a pillow. He's got a pillow for it? Yeah, he's got a pillow.

It's laid out like a child laying there. It's like a deer. I have a lot of questions about did he check on the deer? He's tucked in. He's laid out like a child laying there. It's like a deer. So he didn't even... I would like to... I have a lot of questions about, did he check on the deer? He's tucked in. He's in the garage. The buck is laying on his side. His head's on a pillow. He's tucked in with a blanket. He's trying to help.

And they're rubbing his side. I think it all boils down to your intention. Because they thought petting it would calm it. No. No. That's not going to help. That's not what he's after. No my buddy ron layton one time was he pulled he fished two fawns two fawn blacktails out of the ocean well and pulled them up on his landing craft and one died i think then the other one he got wrapped up in a space blanket and got it to shore

and wrapped up in another blanket and got it warmed off and eventually ran off. So he'd be like breaking the law. But do you... Here's a whole different left turn. Do you eat it at that point? If a deer dies in your garage with a pillow and a blanket? I'm thinking this guy probably doesn't eat it based on the way he treated it.

This guy just buried it. I feel like it's respect to the deer that you would eat it rather than just bury it. I can relate pretty closely to this story. I was out antelope hunting one day and found a whitetail fawn that had been smoked by a truck and was laying in the middle of the road, very wounded, heavily concussed, but its legs were not broken. And within a year of finding this deer, I had found another fawn that was horribly hit by a car,

alive, all legs broken. And I shot the deer, put it out of its misery on the side of the road. And that was a horrible experience. Anyways, I find this other one and its legs are not broken. So I did what this Pennsylvania guy did. I loaded him up and I called FWP as I took it home. And I said, I've just found this wounded baby deer. He said, that cannot be in your

possession. You need to go put it back where you found it or quickly hand it off to someone else. So I took care of it for a short period of time and handed it over to a wildlife sanctuary in Hamilton, Montana. And as far as I know, that deer lived a happy, healthy life. I doubt it. Why do you doubt it? Because I've heard from people that they have a horrible time dealing with wounded deer. This thing was heavily concussed. Like its head was just spinning around

why do you feel that lived happily ever after well i i was uh around the deer for upwards of a week and uh took it to the wild yeah i love it not really it's interesting took it to a soft spot yeah i do do. Especially after it was like this, I had like a second chance because a year prior, I had put down this poor little creature that I can't fix your broken legs. This thing didn't have a chance.

So I did. I finished off a very wounded deer on the side of the road and it broke my heart. And then a year later, I was like, maybe this one has a chance. Its legs are not broken. And so it made it through the first week.

And as far as I know, lived happily ever after in Hamilton, Montana at a wildlife sanctuary. Did they name it? No, I named it Little Baby Road Rash because it was scraped up real bad. I'm looking at you totally differently now, man. I like what I'm seeing. Yeah.

I like what I'm seeing when I look at you. Yeah. This is a related story that a guy wrote in about. Guy lives in Idaho, and he runs into a guy who is an out-of-stater from Ohio who's out wolf hunting. And the guy's asking around. He says he's been hunting, has took us off, hasn't seen any wolves. This guy says, well, I'll keep my eyes out and let you know what I hear and what I see. And likewise, let me know if you run into any elk because he's hunting for elk. Oh, guy's from Missouri, not Ohio. So he goes out hunting elk.

The local goes out hunting elk, gets into a bunch of wolves, calls a dude from Missouri. The dude tells him, hey, man, get out to this area. The guy goes out, sure enough, gets a wolf. So he's real happy with this local fella. Then he calls him, and he's saying, you're not going to believe this. This is the Missouri guy in Idaho calling the local fella. You're not going to believe this, but we turned onto a bridge and there was a big bull standing on the bridge.

And this bull jumped off the bridge. Oh, dang. And it right now is laying down on the rocks. Wounded. With a broken back. Oh. So. Come get back. Oh. So. Come get it.

Yeah. Well, a while later, the guy calls, the wolf hunter calls the guy back, goes, I'm telling you, man, we just drove by again, and now it's dead on the rocks. He says it's a big bull. And the guy, the local guy was like, well, they're from Missouri. It's probably a raghorn. What do they know about big bulls? But him and his buddy, who's still got an elk tag

drive over, it's a 350-inch bull. A 350 bull laying dead under the bridge. He said we had a grueling 20-yard packout. Tagged it in the hall of the home of them.

I've seen a video of a video of somebody driving their car across a bridge and some rut crazed whitetail comes onto the bridge and it doesn't know where to

go and it spills off the side and executes itself pretty promptly. When I was going to the University of Montana, I can't remember if it was five or seven mule deer, got into the parking garage, spiraled their way up the ramps to the top of the parking garage, and then all bailed off and we're all laying dead in a pile below the parking garage.

No way. A group of lemons off the hedge there. And I remember around the same time, a mountain lion killed a mule and stashed it against the mechanical building. Nice. Buried it against the mechanical building. Nice. Buried it against the mechanical building. That's pretty sweet. He's like, this big rock, I'm going to drag it over to this big rock over here. University of Montana.

You know, I think there's two students that have been thoroughly beaten by whitetails on campus. Wow. Yeah, this one gal was walking back from a grizzly basketball game. This is a sports team called the Grizzlies. Not the other thing that you can put together in your mind. I was picturing grizzly bears playing basketball. Yes. Then, yeah, she came around the corner and, you know,

dark corner of a building there on campus and startled the white-tailed doe who had turned into the corner and didn't have anywhere to go. So the doe turned around and proceeded to pummel this gal into a massive concussion. Hmm. Yeah. That's too bad.

She's still alive? Yes. As far as I know know so is the deer what else you got yanni i got one go for this conversation let me ask you guys this let me poll you guys i'm gonna pull you it's a poll that finds out how smart people are oh say you're looking at a little button buck. Speaking of bucks. And you're looking at a little button buck and you see how

he has like the raised hair where his antlers will be. Do bucks shed that little teensy disc

or not? I'm going to say everybody's going to be quiet. I'm abstaining from this because I know the answer. I do not know the answer. If you know the answer, then you know that it's slightly inconclusive. I'm going to say maybe they don't because it's part of the pedicle or something.

I'm going to say they do. I'm going to say they spit off a little scab or something. I'm going to say maybe they don't because it becomes part of the base of the pedicle later on. So you're saying it throws off a little scab. That's my guess, yeah. You're going middle ground. You don't want to say there's nothing. No, I'm saying that he's going to shed off a little.

You're kind of spineless, aren't you, Pete? No. I would not describe myself like that. He's a soft man with a deer bone, I can tell you that. A hard man with a mountain lion. Yeah, I think they shed a little something. I go, do not shed. I think you're probably right, but I'm not sure.

We were talking about this because some guy was asking about it and brody was digging into it like the pedicles which begin growing at a couple months of age and buck fawns provide the base from which the antler will grow yeah so the little small hair covered hair covered bumps are just a developing pedicle. They are not antlers. It's like the root. Infantile antlers or actual hardened antlers on a buck fawn have not, this is where this gets tricky. They're saying, this is research that was done in Virginia. They said in Virginia, they have not been documented, meaning no buck, they don't know of any buck in Virginia that actually grew a hardened antler,

a button buck, that grew a hardened antler. A button buck that grew a hardened antler and dropped it, but it says that they have been reported in other states that it would grow a little teensy teensy.

Teensy is what I was getting at. Little weensy teensy. Teensy. Teensy. Teensy. Teensy. The little tiny thing.

Yeah. They grow their first set of antlers when they are approximately one year of age. Yeah. So you're saying the development of the pedicle is what you're seeing. But reported there. That's where it gets tricky. All that means is some guy said, hey, man, I seen it. Yeah. You said you knew the answer, Cal. Is you give us the answer cal like all this hardcore know-how yeah it is it is my

understanding that that is the development of the pedicle um it does not shed um and um if uh you know some of those big bucks may just have extra inch or two on everybody by having an overdeveloped pedicle. I'm not saying they're dropping antlers. You don't measure the pedicle, man. No, just by looks. Yeah, look, my look. Yeah.

Yeah. True. You good, Yanni? What do you got to add there, man? I got nothing to add to that. Got no concluders even? No, not even a general concluder. Oh, I can come up with one.

Is it time for that yet? Yeah. It's not. You got to go somewhere? No. It's Friday, man. Oh, yeah. I'm feeling like what I set out to get done has been gotten done.

Oh. I got a good one that Charlie wrote in about. And since we got Pete here, I think he can help us answer it because I actually was dealing with this the other day and I was wishing I could call Pete and ask him what I should do. But Charlie's wondering how we keep our gear and clothes clean, especially from blood, and how do we keep them odor-free? What tricks and tips do we have?

Mostly I was wondering about how to get the blood out of my Stone Glacier pack. Packs are a big one. Yeah, for sure. Because you bleach them, it ruins the stitching. Yeah, don't go bleaching your backpack. I don't use bleach. Yanni uses hydrogen peroxide. Is that bad or good, Pete?

I think that sounds a little aggressive. I think it's aggressive if you leave it on. You're rinsing it off pretty quick? Immediately. Yeah, okay. Like I spray, brush, rinse. Spray, brush, rinse until it's gone. I'm a soaker.

I get my bathtub full of hot water and I just submerge everything for 24 hours. And then I come back with a dish brush and buff it off and then kind of repeat that cycle a handful of times. As far as keeping blood off your gear, if you don't have blood on your gear,

you're not doing it right. And if you don't smell bad, you're also not trying hard enough. So it's just the nature of getting after it. But cleaning it up is simple enough. I think you just – I soak it and scrub it over and over with a light detergent. Yeah. Mark Canyon in the whitetail world would probably have a different answer

for, I think, keeping the stuff oil-free. I grew up in the whitetail world, man. That's just a different – in the West, it have a different answer for keeping the stuff oil-free. I could open the Whitetail world, man. In the West, it's a different thing. Seth had a separate washing machine that he bought somewhere that he only used for his own clothes. I've had Whitetail outfits in the Midwest

that have separate changing rooms, like separate clean rooms where you go in and it has ionizers all mounted on the wall. And you have a locker and you put your stuff in a zipper. And it's got an ionizer to kill the scent. And you're not allowed to go in there after you've eaten. I mean, you go in there with your hunting clothes and that's it.

No smoking cigarettes. No smoking. Can't smoke butts in that room. And that's what they do. And that's not – I've seen probably more extreme examples of that. The Yeti Panga bags, their waterproof duffel is completely sealed, so I used to use that when you're traveling.

That's a good idea. No air in or out. That's a completely non-contaminating or uncontaminating, whatever the word is, situation. So you try to do that when you can. Was the mug asking that question, was he coming like, was he talking about like odor-free for hunting purposes

or odor-free for just home purposes? Like he didn't want his stuff all smelly. Wasn't that much context in here. Got it. Sorry. Yeah, I mean, that much context in here. Got it. Sorry. Yeah, that's a regional thing. In the Midwest and in the East, hardcore whitetail hunters are for sure obsessed. There's definitely hardcore Western bow hunters that go to the same extremes.

They might not do the same things, certainly go i haven't invested a scent in odor eliminating or odor masking things specific to hunting in i mean since oh easy 10 plus years at this point i still wash all my clothes with the like the scent free detergent and all that i gave up real hard on that. I grew up in Ohio hunting deers and drank that Kool-Aid and was hardcore scent-covered. I grew up drinking Kool-Aid. Yeah, I loved the Kool-Aid.

But once I moved to Montana and started hunting elk, you can't. You were going to sweat. You were going to smell bad. And if you're not, you're probably not getting on elk so i'd quickly just completely abandoned just play the wind oh yeah i think there's there's like room and we you know we used to try we used to have a lot of things we even try like having extra clothes we would like hike in one set of clothes and keep an extra set of clothes and only use those clothes for when you're in like total hunt mode yeah going down to the creek with a bottle of uh you know we had baking soda in a spray bottle and getting creek

water and putting it in there and spraying everything like none of that hurts no you'd never be like well i would have got the bull if i hadn't been doing good scent control uh none of it hurts but it's hard to maintain you just hard to maintain. You want to get lazy. Or you do a lot. On a backcountry hunt, I'd say it's almost negligible. I think where you can do it and make it worthwhile because you have just the luxury of a truck or a trailer is on like a spot, something like that,

where every day you're coming back to a camp where if you wanted to, you could have a separate change of clothes yeah the bulk of the whitetail hunters are day hunting and like they're going from their house yeah to walking out to the tree walking out to the tree stand you know from the lease or whatever then it seems doable yeah why not be paranoid man why not plus you're sitting you're stationary in a tree and everything all your scent and everything that um you're affecting the environment around you, and you basically sit there and watch your effect all day. Every time a deer comes and looks, you're keyed in on those effects.

Whereas when you're spot and stalking, there's less of that intimacy. When I used to trap red fox, you had to be more paranoid than a paranoid bow hunter. Oh, yeah. Can you talk about all the equipment. It takes a lot. Last time we did this Q&A, did I drop the one about shooting offhand and a guy was watching his buddy miss a bunch of bucks and he's wondering about shooting rests in the field?

It's funny you mention that, because I have one that's the same, but probably different. Do you want me to read this one off? Can I tell you this? Then you do yours and tell me if it's different or not. Yeah. Him and his buddy have an ongoing, quote, discussion, so I gather that means an argument, about sighting

their rifles. His buddy thinks... His buddy likes to sight in his rifle shooting freehand because that's how he's hunting anyway that's all i need to know okay so i'm going with that's like saying i like to learn to drive fully drunk yeah he's like you need to sight in your rifle in a real life shooting situation that's not the point point. And the guy that wrote it says, this has to be bullshit. Go ahead with yours.

I agree with the guy writing it. What was your guy's question? That's bullshit. Dan wrote in, said that a couple weeks ago he had a buddy that missed a big mule deer buck because he took an offhand shot

at 170 yards. Offhand. Offhand. Find a tree, bro. And later they got back on the buck, and rather than taking the time to find a good rest, he tried another offhand shot and missed again. He tried to convince him to take the time to find a good rest before he shot,

but he felt like the buck was going to get away. What are your thoughts on rifle bipod, shooting sticks, and shooting off packs? What's the best shooting rest in the field very different question i think you need to examine on how much getting away the white tail buck did in that scenario which did it get away more in which scenario at the very least in that situation if you feel like this buck's about the crest of hill or he's going to do something he's going to get away, fight a tree and lean against the tree or do something to get more stable.

Don't just swing your gun and blast one off. That's a little bit irresponsible. I never even paid attention to yardages, but man, I have not taken a whole lot of cracks freehand

except for things that are just real close. Go to the range and just lay down prone. I'm always taking a rest hunting cottontails at my 22. Go to the range and lay down prone and shoot a shot. Then kneel and shoot a shot.

Then stand up freehand and shoot a shot and see where all three of those land. Guarantee, you're going to get further away from your target each time. Or, I don't guarantee, but I would guess. What'd you take, Yanni? It was your damn question. Yeah, man, 175 yards offhand is freaking super long. I think if most, let's just say the people in this room, offhand 170 yards with your big game hunting rifle,

if you threw an elk out there, an elk, giant-ass animal, I'd say that for us, I bet you we would just land a bullet anywhere on that target, you'd be at 30%. You'd probably hit it three times out of ten. That's my guess. How far away was that at our christmas party how far away was that that was a hundred yards hundred yards that was a hundred yards that was that was tricky and i think what was that yeah you had to free how many people hit four five me i hit dude i just closed my eyes i was like feeling stressed. Did you hit a cow? Yeah. Okay, so four of us hit that one.

You hit? Yeah. There was a little gopher squirrel steel silhouette at 100 yards. There weren't many more. Other than us, there wasn't very many more. I don't know what that means. And that was out of 30 people. Yeah, about 30 people.

Oh, was it that bad? That's a very hard shot. That was a very hard shot. That was a very hard shot. Also, it was in the dark for most people. It was an orange-painted target, but it was dark, and you were standing in a lit porch area. That makes it a little bit tougher, I'd say. Yeah, it was real anti-Oakley stuff.

Yeah. I hate to admit this now, but I was surprised. Yeah. I got Mitch Hedberg's thing. He has a lot of acting experience, he says, because when he's playing pool and he makes a shot, he always has to act like he's not surprised. So...

I agree with you. I was shocked. I was not feeling cocky. I was there early enough that I got to shoot it when it was still light out, so I felt like maybe I had a distinct advantage. Probably helpful. No, when I squeezed the trigger, I was like, well, this isn't going to work out. But you tinked it?

Yeah. Tink. Yeah. But yeah, as far as recommendations for good shooting rests, I always try to get low, as low as possible. And if you don't have the time to get low or if you don't have the time to get low or if you don't have the you know clear landscape underneath you to get low because there's brush or grass or whatever then uh you

know the next best thing would be on your butt using some shooting sticks or shooting stick standing or uh yeah the tree like ben said i mean that's a everybody should know how to do that you could easily make a 200 plus yard shot by leading your rifle into a tree oh yeah man um if you get lucky there's a cross branch yeah you get a little crotch and then uh i mean it's damn near like having a you know tripod rest that you're using our buddy tony paul's kill uh he teaches he's a sniper instructor in the Marine Corps. And when doing like makeshift, using makeshift rests, like a rail, trees, stuff like that,

he talks about how you need to have either the push or the pull. Makes sense. Yeah, when you're sitting there with him shooting, it makes sense. But there's always a little bit of like, even when you're going on a tree, you kind of like wedge it where you can get a little, you can lean into it a little bit, you know? Yeah, you should explain that a little bit more because that's a good one. What he meant by the pool was he was having, and this was when he was,

you can watch on the episode with Helen and Brittany in Wisconsin, at Doug's place. But when he was saying the pool, he was actually having them hold on to the sling coming off of the forend and then pulling that in towards their body. Creating a little bit of tension. Exactly. That tension, you know, creates you to lock up. Same thing like if you shoot off your butt you put your elbows on the outsides of

your knees and then kind of suck your arms in against those knees and that creates that tension too or digging a toe in when you're laying prone and giving a little little push off your toe three points of contact you guys steady things up shooting off your knee works pretty dang good. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. Boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law

makes it that they can't join. Our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there on x is now in canada the great features that you love in on x are available for your hunts this season the hunt app is a fully functioning gps with hunting maps that include public and crown land hunting zones aerial imagery 24k topo maps, waypoints, and tracking.

That's right, we're always talking about OnX here on the Meat Eater Podcast. Now you, you guys in the Great White North can be part of it. Be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services handpicked by the OnX Hunt team. Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onXMaps.com slash meet.

OnXMaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX club, y'all. You know what we've done a lot of? Some people think this is questionable, but I don't think it's questionable i've shot a number of big game things and otherwise over my buddy's shoulder oh yeah yeah we do it i'm not recommending people do it but i'm just telling you that something we've done successfully i know i've never seen that before oh we're slick man you just like we'll set up up where they just bend over, obviously put their hand on their ears,

and you're almost laying on them. Then tap them. That means hold your breath. It's rock. It's surprisingly solid. I can't say that. I did run into it in Africa one time.

The trackers over there will do that for dudes. Right here. Right here. On the shoulder. Right here. But you can... That brings up another thing. I am not a fan of standing shooting sticks,

particularly thinking about the ones they roll out in Africa. No, I've never used them. It almost seems like it's more unstable than shooting freehand at some level. It's weird, but I've never had luck with it. There's kind of an easy cooking one. Oh, lay down me. Speaking of uneasy shooting. No.

All right. This is from Evan Husingveld. Husingveld. Husingveld from Sportsman's Alliance. Oh, yes. Oh. Evan, this is roughly a month late in response, but we got it. Gotcha, buddy. I'm smoking a whole venison backstrap tonight.

I typically smoke it to a rare temp and then sear it in a cast iron with butter, which brings the finished temp to medium rare. Have you ever combined this with the sous vide? Meaning what he wants to do is he wants to smoke it to get the smoke flavor and then throw it in a bag and drop it in the sous vide to maintain the temp until he's ready to sear it. He's wondering if that would work and be appropriate. I would think this would be like if you're in that Christmas situation and you're cooking for a bunch of folks and you got a bunch of things going on and you don't want to worry

about overcooking something or serving something cold. And that is a huge reason that sous vide is so popular in the restaurant industry. But he's saying, like, smoke it, sous vide it, sear it. And then sear it, yeah. If the question is, have I done it? No. And I can't picture smoking it and then having it be, I just can't picture it. I think he just wants to maintain that temp so it's not cold, right?

So he's not going to overcook it on the smoker. He's going to bring it off. Then he wants to maintain it at that below medium rare temp. And then when everything else is ready, he's going to pop that thing out of the bag. In your scenario, what I've done in the past is, because I don't like to let stuff rest. Sometimes it's always in a tin foil or aluminum foil, but sometimes in a Yeti hopper. So you could smoke it, get it to 10 degrees or 10 to 15 degrees below where you want it.

If you say you've got an hour or two, wrap it in tinfoil, put it in your Yeti, zip it up tight. Because you know over that time that heat's going to stay in there, it's going to continue to cook it. Then when you get it to where you're going, sear it then.

That's what I've done in the past. Just tell your bros you're going, sear it then. Yeah. That's what I've done in the past. So just say, just tell your bros you're coming over for Christmas, like, hey, look, I just need a cast iron skillet ready to sear it when I get there. That way it's crispy still and you don't, because a lot of times when you let it rest after you seared it, it kind of takes away that crispy, crusty consistency that you get when you sear it and then just serve it.

All those good carcinogens we like. So some people do sear and then drop it in the soup bag, so you could do that too, but you definitely have all that moisture in the bag. I think that was the way to go, but now I think it's like the reverse. When I first started messing with it, I thought that was cool,

but now it's definitely better because you just stew it. You lose your outside crisp. Well, that searing, that initial shock. Not stew, but you know what I'm saying. Oh, no. Yeah, like steams it. But that initial shock, the searing it on all sides, it starts the process of that meat going to another stage,

breaking down the protein. So you don't want that crispy sear and then put it somewhere that's going to steam it, and then it gets soft again, and you've got kind of a weird consistent rubbery. But that's what a lot of the recipes are, though. Really? Yeah. And then you come back out and crisp her up again. It kind of depends what your finished product is, too.

If you're going to pick something, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Guy asked, can you freeze deer heart liver? Heart freezes as good as anything on the planet. I trim them, core them out. Trim them ahead of time? I do. Oh.

I core them out, trim the fat off the upper, you know, the fat part. Yeah. Trim the tallow off that and freeze them. Is that a space time? What's the reason? Why do I trim it first? I don't know, man. When I put stuff in my freezer.

I clean it up, man. When I put stuff in my freezer, I feel like I like to freeze it. I typically, and I've done all versions, but in my mind, what I'm typically trying to do is freeze ingredient recipe ready. In a perfect world, you're freezing recipe ready stuff. So I'll take my heart, core it, wash it out, core it, wash it out,

core it, trim the tallow off the top lip, then freeze it. It freezes for a million years. Well, a few. The other day I was telling my kid, what was he telling me? He's telling me something. I said, man, I bet you a million bucks. He's like, oh, you got a million dollars?

It's just a thing. It's just a thing we say. you serious really dad tad are you serious right now yeah you don't want to take the bet um a million years a few years liver man i used to say like i used to freeze the liver is not a good idea i've never had any luck with no i know, I know, but I used to do it anyway. And you thaw it and all the water comes out and it winds up being rubbery and it just doesn't work. You just got to

eat it. Ron Layton freezes ... Yeah, Ron Layton always freezes livers and gives them to me and I take the livers home and cook them. But it's just he's like, oh, I got you another liver. I'm like, oh, man, that's wonderful, Ron. I have an antelope liver in the freezer right now specifically for sausage, though. So I got a sausage recipe where I'll feed that liver into the grinder

and mix everything up. I think it's a bad idea. What kind of sausage recipe is that? Liverwurst? No, but my buddy Jim makes liverwurst that kicks ass. That's like the best breakfast meat on the planet.

Not wild game liverwurst. Yeah. Really? Yeah. The thing about liverwurst is though is that it's not that when you look at everything in liverwurst, it's like 10% liver.

Exactly. Because you're eating a lot of milk and a lot of fat. Yeah, it's flavoring% liver. Exactly. Because you're eating a lot of milk and a lot of fat. Yeah, it's flavoring. Sounds good to me. Dude, that was my old man's sandwich. Dude, I'll... Rye bread, liverwurst, sliced onion, and mustard.

I was going to say white onion. I sometimes feel like going down and buying... I don't like to buy meat in stores, man. No. But I sometimes feel like going down and buying me a big old liverwurst. When we're traveling sometime, we should get a big thing of liverwurst. Dude, we should. You should come to the Latvian hunting camp in Wisconsin.

The guys from Milwaukee show up. I don't know. Probably 20 pounds of Usinger's liverwurst and all sorts of other fine sausages and pork products from there man and that's all we eat as far as like sandwiches going into the field it's just right latvian rye bread which is kind of not typical regular rye bread oh i think it's twice as good better well no it's not no i'm telling you man it's not. No, I'm telling you, man. It's not what you consider rye.

It's more of like a sourdough rye. Dude, you can knock someone out with that bread. The stuff that I bring around? It's a dense bread. Yes. It's like a kind of bread. If you threw it to a duck, that duck better be a diver. That duck, that bread is going to sink by the lake, man.

No, for sure. It's a dense bread but I could see man on a liverwurst god I'm dying right now I'm making liverwurst with that liver you guys are gonna want some

and be like sorry bro the kind my dad like the lowest grade liverwurst it was like Oscar it had like a yellow wrapper on it it came in like a log

with a yellow wrapper no and my old man too he would buy bread and not let other people eat his bread. If you went into the kitchen, it was like the old man's bread and the family's bread. You couldn't have his bread unless you asked him about it.

Did he grow up poor? Oh, yeah. This is mine. I recommend if you're listening and you're going to go try something, don't go into this regular grocery and buy the Oscar Mayer Braunschweiger or Liverwer, Braunschweiger, or Liverwurst. Braunschweiger.

You're not getting the same. Like, go to a deli, go to a Jewish deli, and get the good shit because it's well worth it. Yeah. Yeah. I hear you.

I was talking to a friend of mine who was, they were Jewish, and they'd always grown up going, have I talked about this before? Tongue? I told this story before, never mind. One last one.

You guys good for one more one? Oh, yeah. Here's another one. There's a guy that wrote in, he's all confused about the difference between party hunting and party applications. There's kind of like two questions from two different people, but one of the guys demonstrated's kind of like two questions from two different people but one of the guys demonstrated some level of like he's like he's looking at a out-of-state hunting app and

it's a party application and he's like dude party hunting that's no good that's a great point yeah i've never thought two very different things it's a semantics thing but he's right like using that why why not change the term the term in the application sense? It's already application. I filled out a party application. Team apps. Why can't I shoot your moose? We all got the tag.

Who wants to start with party hunting? Which is where we're sharing tags. Party hunting is where there's five people at this table. Yeah. Two of us have a tag there's five people at this table. Yeah. Two of us have a tag. All five of us go hunting. Everybody's up to bat. Everybody's up to bat.

Is that, is that? Yeah. And it's legal in some places. No, I don't know if that's necessarily legal. I've never done it that way. Where I've done it legally, all of us would have had tags. We'd all be out in the field hunting.

Like a deer drive. Possibly five deer come by. I shoot all five, and you guys come over and tag them. Yes and no. That might be the case some places, but there are places where you – I think those main moose tags – Main moose. You can designate – it's a party tag.

It's a party tag. You can designate – Yeah, it's different. Other shooters. You draw the tag, but you can designate other guys to hunt the same tag, and you can all be out. I think you're supposed to be in some definition of communication. But you draw it.

You go, like, I'm party hunting with you. You and me are both hunting. But again, there's some sort of formal agreement or there's some sort of tag that's saying that this is the deal. It's not just like, oh, I'm out here without a hunting license or a tag at all. Oh, well, yeah. There's illegal party hunting.

The party hunting in the legal sense is what I was trying to describe. There's illegal. We grew up doing a lot of illegal party hunting. Here's the deal. Party hunting that I just described is legal in Wisconsin. Not legal here in Montana. We did it illegally in Michigan before I even knew it was illegal. But it would be that your group of guys all have buck tags. Someone gets a doe tag.

When I was growing up, it was viewed as though if you see a doe, Bob's got a tag, which is not legal. Team kill. Yeah, that's right. But you'd go yell for Bob, and Bob would run over, and that was an illegal thing they did not even know was illegal. Well, now in Wisconsin, explain again what you're saying is okay there? I believe, and this is the last time I looked into it,

and I believe they define it as like within communication where you can yell at the other hunter that might be tagging the deer. But if you're all licensed and a group of deer comes by, you can shoot more as long as someone in that group and that's within shouting distance of you can come over and tag that deer. But you can't have a dude with you who has no tag. You could have him with you, but he can't be carrying a rifle.

I got you. I got you. Yeah. He can can't be actively hunting he needs to be a licensed hunter yeah now this brings up a thing we haven't gotten into party applications yet but another thing on party hunting another question the guy that i've been meaning to get to and never got to it him and his buddy are hunting black bears his buddy's got a black bear tag he doesn't so mug one um mug one has a black bear tag mug two does not have a black bear tag mug one but they're hunting deer okay mug one gets a shot at a black bear mug two runs up the black bear is running off his buddy got got a hit. Mug one got a hit, but it wasn't a mortal wound. Mug two, bouch, kills it. That's against the law.

That's right. It's a strange one, and it's one where you get put into like the spirit of the law, civil law versus moral law. And I've been in that situation in the past, where you're like, well, however things played out, you're going to have a wounded yet unrecovered animal. And I've been in that situation. And it puts you in a little bit of a bind.

I think that a game warden is probably going to look at it and be like, sorry, man, you killed it. Yeah, and unfortunately, there's just too much room for interpretation and too much room for taking it and cheating that rule if it's not done that way. Because guides would just walk around killing animals for planets all the time. Because they were fighting what we're talking about. That rule is fighting what we're talking about.

Two guys walking around, one guy shooting. He's like, come over here real quick. Yeah, so the gray area is what you want to try to eliminate. Yeah, like the scenario. And I take at face value what he's saying. It's just that it looked like it was going to get away, and he didn't want it to get away. But he went.

And so, yeah, you definitely broke a law, because I know what state this occurred in. You broke a law. Maybe he's just throwing out a hypothetical. I don't know. Party applications. Who wants to take that one? I can talk about it a little bit.

Talk about it, Pete. You want to go hunting maybe with your family or your friends and you're like, I'd rather draw this tag with you or not at all. That's a good way to put it. Binary. I like taking some of my family members hunting who maybe are not going

to go hunting on their own so we apply as a party it's like hey like we're all we're all going to get it or none of us are going to get it it's not like you're going to get stuck with this tag and nobody's going to be able to go go on this hunt with you so i think it's a way to ensure that uh your core group of fellow sportsmen or family that you're hunting with will all get the permit and you can do it as a group. This guy was asking too, is it a good idea or not? And that's not really answerable because it just depends on how bad you want to go. I think another way to do it would be if you're eyeballing some hunt you want to do

and you'd make a deal. You're like, you could do a party app and then you both get to go on equal footing and you both got tagged. But there's less of a chance that someone's going to have a tag. Or you make a deal and be like, let's both put in single. But let's sign a treaty right now, sign an agreement that if one of us draws, we both go on the trip. But if you don't hang out with that kind of person, then it makes sense that you all put in as a group and then you all either go and everyone's gung-ho fully loaded or everyone stays at home. Is party application somehow, this is a question because I'm not sure. It's not beneficial.

Would it prevent in some way party hunting like i'm just thinking through this a little bit if everybody has a tag then you don't have to share a tag completely unrelated man i know i know but there's a there is a there could be a corresponding thing there if everybody has a tag you don't have to worry about that's right you're trying to tie in party hunting party i was trying to be slick and i was very that's why i was asking as a question because i was pretty sure I was way off. There's also a strategic play where if I have 10 elk points and you have zero and we apply as a party, I kind of pull you up a little bit.

So I increase your odds significantly. Depends on the state. True, yep. And you can apply as a non-resident. You could apply with a resident on a party application. You could, but at least the state that i've done that in in colorado if you do that you're both in the non-resident the non-resident so the residents getting dinged big time yeah it can be it can handicap you but i've heard of a very go ahead oh i just i think that there are so many people, um, if we're being honest with ourselves, there's

a lot of people that ultimately enjoy the planning and the Google earth thing and the lead up to the hunt, maybe even more than the hunt and the adventure themselves, where, um, these party applications are a big deal because they feel like they're, they're in the game. They got something even more than the hunt and the adventure themselves where um these party applications are a big deal because they feel like they're they're in the game they got something to go with some you know something to plan towards or daydream about at work or whatever so um i think that that's a big benefit to these party applications have you ever party party applied yes i have party applications out right now. I have one out now. I didn't get invited. I didn't hear about that one.

Well, it's me and my bro because he's an Alaska resident. So we partied up on a couple things. Sheep, I imagine. Partied up on some stuff. Sweet. What else about that? Party hunting.

Party apps. Parties. Party hunting. um what else about that party hunt it kind of covers party apps parties partying yeah and it's a good i mean it's just it's a good way for folks to plan particularly if you're applying um for an out-of-state hunt then you kind of know be like yep this is where we want to go and you can budget uh both time and monetarily for um how you're going to approach that hunt yeah i i'd like that system here's here's one last question ready are rabbits safe to eat yes yes all right thanks for joining i have a concluder oh they love me. You came up with one? Speaking of parties. Oh, I like it.

And good times. There are some shows coming up. Some Under the Hood shows and some live podcasts that have tickets still available. They are a Under the Hood in Salt Lake City on February 8th. An Under the Hood in Cleveland, city on february 8th and under the hood in cleveland ohio on february 21st and under the hood in houston tejas february 27th and then live podcasts in dallas on the 28th of february and in seattle on the 14th of march so half of our shows are sold out. Those are the five that still have a bunch of tickets. What about Reno?

Sheep show. That's right, Reno. Thank you, Cal. Just because I'm going to be there. That's selfish. Come meet Callahan. And the date on that one is. I'll be standing behind Cal.

Trying not to bother anybody. You know, you're going to Sheep. What's the date? I believe you guys are doing your live podcast on Friday, February 8th. Thursday. Is that the 7 February 8th. Thursday. Is that the 7th? Yeah. Thursday.

I've got a calendar right here. It's in the afternoon. It's a tough one for some folks. We just added the great Remy Warren to the guest list. Yeah, Remy will be there. It's a tough one because it's an early afternoon show. That's all right. You can start drinking early that day.

Yeah, man. Quit work. Yep. Don't quit. Just take a break. Yeah, it's probably better to take a break. That's funny. Good job, man.

It is on the 7th, on Thursday. Good job, Yanis. Yanis. What did they call you down in Mexico? I can't remember, man. Yanis. Yanis. Yeah. Janice. Janice. Yeah.

Janice. Janice. Most of the time they make like a funny, it's like a J sound for the J. I'll be like, no. It's just like Yamo, like when you say your name, double L, and they're like, yeah, Janice. No, let's start over. Don't tell me how to say your name, boy. You're in my phone with a Y.

Yanni does that on his emails. I saw that the other day. You have the phonetical spelling on your name now. He writes Janice, and then he puts in parentheses Janice. And on his Instagram, it's like that too, I feel like.

It is? Yeah, it's Janice. And on his Instagram, it's like that too, I feel like. It is? Yeah, it's Janice. No, that's my dad. Nah, maybe it is. But I feel like the name is Janice and the handle is Janice. Janice? Janice? Señor Janice.

Janice? Janice? Dude, I'm always just Steve, man. My dad calls you Steve Rinelli and he calls you Janice Patel. Good. He's a proper redneck. I don't see any whys, man. I guess my dad's wrong.

He's your dad. Cal, got any concluders? Oh, that was your concluder. That was a good one. Thanks. Live show dates coming up, man. Get your tickets. Go to themeateater.com.

And the tab is events. And goEater.com. And the tab is the events. And go to events. Go to events. Events. And check it out. Also got some speaking events coming up, and those are there as well. Places where I'm going to be giving some keynotes and whatnot. So you can see those there.

Like Pheasant Fest in Schaumburg, Illinois. Yep. Which someone told me is kind of like Chicago. It's a teensy bit different than Chicago, but close. Very similar. Yeah, there's a big radius of suburbs there. Still kind of Chicago. Got one coming up in Lander, Wyoming at the New Leaf Fanatics.

You going to Harrisburg? Nope. Nope. Got one coming up in... Yeah. What else? Concluder? Cal, that's where we were. Oh,

yeah, boy. Get a solid rest. Go buy a bipod. I mean, if you're not touching that trigger knowing that you were going to kill something, then you should not be touching that trigger. Speaking of bipods and sighting in, because the fellow said he was sighting in offhand,

I say, too, if you're going to use a bipod, definitely sight in using that bipod. Because I know that my rifles have a much different point of impact if I'm shooting off of a sandbag on a bench and that bipod off I know that my rifles have a much different point of impact if I'm shooting off of a sandbag on a bench and that bipod off of a bench. A lot of guys will say, don't shoot the bipod off a concrete bench because that

concrete bench is so stiff compared to if you just set it on the ground that there's a difference in point of impact. I was coming from the school thought. Real world situations. Sight in the mean, I think real world situations. Sight in the rifle, like locked into a lead sled.

And maybe this is wrong, but I have always treated my guns as sighted in, locked into a lead sled, take every variable out of it. The gun is zeroed. And then any imperfection after that from shooting off of a bipod or shooting freehand is

is your fault not not so much the guns oh i think it needs to be adjusted to how you hold that rifle though too there's gonna be like i totally agree like you you sound the mechanics of everything the gun is bedded properly the scope's mounted properly um you could even shoot your groups off there and figure out your your loads um bullet to bullet and grain grain to grain um and if you want to go through that and proof all of that and then add in the variable of the human component yeah um then you will would still more than likely need to make some adjustments to you know your particular cheek weld yeah yeah i always like to just determine that the scope is listening to me when i make adjustments and like when it's on a lead

sledge you know yeah when you're yeah there's human error involved when you're you know sighting a gun in so you're not always sure but i always like to make sure if i move it two inches down two inches right that it does exactly that. I feel like that's a good thing to know on a new rifle. I mean, I'll tell you, I don't do this. I throw her down on top of my backpack a lot of times out on some chunk of state land or something. Make sure she's still hitting close to home.

My cardboard box that I've taped up. The boys at Vortex talk about cycling through the tracking on your scope. Oh, really? You zero to check your scope. Zero, and then dial up 20 MOA. Then dial back 20 MOA. Make sure it lands back where it's supposed to. Take it for a walk.

That's particularly if you're using a scope where you're manually dialing before your shots. And what happens if you don't feel like it's coming back to where it's? You got a problem. Yeah. You got a tracking. Call a manufacturer. Yeah, because you got a 200-yard zero and you dial up for, let's say you're messing around, and you're trying to impress your buddies. You shoot a rock 600 yards away, and you dial up to six or seven, and then you dial back.

You should do that at the range, and when you dial back, is that where you're at? Yeah. Because some skulls might have a problem where they don't track back to where they're supposed to. Yeah. Just something to keep in mind yeah but i started using like the bdc radicals man and it's not like yeah take take one more thing out yeah like i used to i flirted with messing around dialing i just like to count hash marks yeah yeah it's a lot it's just like for me it depends what kind of guy you are and how your brain works and stuff but my brain is the kind of brain that does better

when everything's locked in i'm counting hash marks are you super solid on your hash marks like yeah yeah do you ever print something out and tape it to your stock or do it yeah yeah i print 50 yard increments 200 yards zero and i take a little thing that's two two fifty three three fifty four four fifty five five, five fifty, six. And I'll put it on there. I'll put high ones on there because you never know a situation where you got something getting away from me that you wounded or whatever.

And then I just have plus and I round them off. I don't have like, you know, 3.97 MOA. I just like, I round them. Four. I round them where I want them. But that's where you used to dial. You don't have that if them. But that's for when you use a dial. You don't have that if you're reading your hash marks. Yeah, I do.

I use it for my hash marks. Even though they're correlated, you can correlate them for most magnum rifles. If you know you have a 200-yard zero, then you know that the hash marks are roughly right. But no, I write it out. Just run that in a ballistic calculator every time. Just print out a new paper for every level.

I'm sorry, I'm confused. You're writing out what each hash mark equals? No, I'm writing out my drop. Okay. So I'll have whatever. Yeah, I understand that. But then how does that work when you look at your hash marks? Well, if I know I need to do four, then I count down two hash marks and hold four. If it's five, I count down your hash marks. Well, if I know I need to do four,

then I count down two hash marks and hold four. If it's five, I count down two hash marks and split the difference between four and six. To print it out, things just reference. Yeah. No, four MOA, whatever. That's what I'm asking. If you have a stack, what do you call it?

Like a stacked reticle, right? And there are two MOA increments. If I look and I'm like, oh, what do you call it? Like a stacked reticle. Right? And there are two MOA increments. If I look and I'm like, oh, this shot, I'm going to be four MOA low. Two hash marks. Then I go down and go to the fourth, the four hash mark. Got it. So you're juggling that and knowing what the hash mark yardage is.

Or do you not do that? No, I just go by i know what the how i know that like the minute of angle drop i'm trying to compensate for got it okay for it by using my because like the way i'll do on the bdc is i'll have my little chart printed out where it says the second hash is 332 the third hash is spot on that's what i that's what i was talking 399. Then you write that on your thing. Then you tape that to your stock.

Before you shoot, you're like, oh, it's 400. I tape it to my scope. I know what you're saying. I think that's a good way of achieving the same thing. Either way. Did you like that better than how I do it? There's less math I have to do in my head in the moment. There's something about that turret, though. I've been hunting with one lately.

They have a PBC, I believe it is. It's a ballista. You send them off all your info. You send them off your bullet. You send them off your FPS. You send them off your elevation, everything. And they send you back a custom turret for your load. Yeah, Vortex does that. Yeah, you pop it on and it's...

It always is like, if you have a rifle you're only going to use around home and you're dotted with scope and you're super confident pop that thing on you never have to change it and it's always a good yeah i had some of those i liked them but it was like it's hard for traveling hunters you know because you're changing elevations all the time you're changing you know a lot of the variables obviously it's hard when you always have to mess around you always mess around with different rifles and different loads. If you have one rifle for a specific purpose and a specific place, it's super easy to do. It gets complicated.

I see your system and it's fine and it would work the same way, but now and then you're splitting the difference. You have two MOA hash marks and you're working with odd numbers, but still it'd be the same thing. I could see either way. I think it's sixes. Short versus six and a half. Six.

Half dozen. Yanni made that up. No, sixes. I don't have any concluding thoughts personally. Pete? Not much. We got a lot of snow and I hope we have a gooding thoughts personally. Pete? Not much. We got a lot of snow, and I hope we have a good weekend of hunting ahead of us. To segue off of the live shows y'all got coming up and Sheep Show here in Reno in early February.

If you are going to Sheep Show, certainly go see the live Meat Eater podcast. And also. You guys going to have a booth? Yeah, absolutely. Can people come by and meet you? i'll fit you in a backpack i don't know if you want to meet me or not but i'll show you you got a girlfriend right now uh you know it's a loose term but uh i'm trying to think of women should go and try to meet pete i guess i guess that's the topic no i do not all right let me finish my concluder my concluder was if you're going to a sheep show,

join the Less Than One Club if you've never killed a sheep. If you have never killed a mountain goat, join the Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance's newly founded Billy Goat Society. I'm a member. Win your first mountain goat hunt from RMGA or win your first sheep hunt from the Wild Sheep Foundation. Do you have to be present for the RMGA? You do. It makes it a little more fun

what if you killed a nanny yeah you're out you're out you're out can't join you had your chance if you want what's that you just said a billy called the billy goat society but yes we have determined if you have killed any mountain goat billy nanny kid you are out. Not eligible. That's correct, yeah. If you want to be just a good conservation-minded fellow or gal and not be burdened with wondering if you're going to win a hunt or not, I'd just say give them some money. And those folks like myself that are already in the drawing will thank you for it. There you go.

That's true. All right, all right, all right, all right. Thank you for it there you go all right all right all right all right thank you for joining Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. On-X Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now, the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and

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