The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 186: A High Level of "Grrrrrrr"

Episode Date: September 16, 2019

Steven Rinella talks with Greg Fonts, Alex Reynaud, George Scheidt, and Janis Putelis.Subjects discussed: How to free dive and read a reef; hole hunting; nibbling for curiosity; how to corner a ling cod; where grizzlies end and great white sharks begin; spearfishing as a way to find out everything that’s wrong with your body; vomiting coffee through your snorkel; the barely existing membrane separating Steve's brain and body; what exactly does “ground and pound” mean?; and more. Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are

without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. Welcome to the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. We hunt the Meat Eater Podcast. You can't predict anything. Presented by OnX Hunt, creators of the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters.

Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google Play Store. Know where you stand with Onyx. Yanni, tell everybody about how cool it was when I got that big yellow tail and how jealous you were and everything like that. I was just stoked because you seemed like you were really struggling with all that salt water that was

getting into your snorkel and I was just calm and chill and never got salt water in my snorkel. I don't know what you were doing wrong, but you'll probably learn. You'll probably get that level of experience where you won't get salt water in your snorkel anymore. Well, what I found when you dive as deep as I dive for as long as I dive, the depths have a pull on you and you come back up and the depths pull on you and that makes your snorkel go under the salt water and then you drink a lot of the salt water

um probably read about that in some scientific but if you can't really hold your breath at all and you can't really go down and you have to just be at the surface you probably get pretty good at keeping your snorkel above water but i I don't have any practice. Come always down super deep. Got it. We're the big fish lurk. Greg, I feel like you don't even need introduction because we gave you a shout out one time. You did. At the live Sacramento show.

You did. Did you get any business from that? I have no clue. No one came in and said, hey, I heard your name mentioned. Hey, Steve sent me in. No. Okay, do it then.

Introduce yourself. Greg Fonts, owner of your name mentioned. Hey, Steve sent me in. No. Okay, do it then. Introduce yourself. Greg Fonts, owner of the Freedive Shop, distributor for Rob Allen, Ocean Hunter, and Meister Carbon Fins, as well as lightly accomplished competitive spear fisherman. And I'll point out a full-time fireman. Yeah. Dude, fireman. I need to talk to whoever negotiates with the fireman union

because I feel like you guys. You're talking to them. Really? Dude, firemen. I need to talk to whoever negotiates with the fireman union. Because I feel like you guys. You're talking to them. Really. You're actually talking. You negotiate on behalf of the firemen. Yeah. Oh, you're doing a great job. Because I meet a lot of firemen.

That's a schedule. If I could go back in time, I would be a fireman. You guys work like two on, 30 off or something like that? I can't talk about it. It's too good. It's too good. You don't want competition. You don't want people moving in on your business.

Yeah, it's like 12 hours on, 30 days off. Just think if everyone at the meteor office went to that schedule. Oh, my God. It's nice being a fireman. Sacramento's where your dive shop is. west sacramento in particular yep so people that want people that listen to this and get all inspired to get into to spearfishing can go down and talk to your wife i if i understand correct yep me my wife uh jason uh those those are the primary people probably talk to on the phone you sent me a video once

explaining how something worked i've been meaning to ask you about this and you had on an apron were you pantsless it was i was wearing an apron and no pants and no pants and i was what was going on there i was just wondering if you're gonna pick up on it i did did you yeah i even showed my wife there you go i'm like i feel like were you cooking. Were you cooking? I feel like, I believe this gentleman has no pants on. No pants. And I was wondering if you're going to say anything. Why? And then you didn't say anything.

Did you spend a lot of time like that? With an apron and no pants? No, it was just to see if you would say anything. And you didn't. So I didn't say anything. Oh, no, I said something to my wife. Yeah, yeah. And it just never happened.

And the problem was the shot. The shot was a little out of focus so i didn't know like you know i know you have a lot going on so you were oh no i took no i took no all right but it never occurred to me either that you were just messing with me yeah absolutely because i was having a hard time um i'll just come out say i'm looking to inspire i feel like i wasted my life instead of doing all the things i did i should have spent all that time spearfishing and now i'm like an aspiring spear fisherman there you go who i've misspent my entire life and i'm only now getting it back on track what i should have been doing the whole time um you wear pants

too much and i was and i had a gun and i couldn't figure it out and i sent greg a question and he's sitting there in the apron and he turned around i'm like what i thought it was like a spearfishing thing but i didn't understand no pants yeah i like that yeah i like that um good then george the ship's captain yeah captain of the not yours correct which is not a yacht it's a large fishing boat correct 30 year old fishing boat a 30 year old fishing boat and you're just a hobbyist pretty much yeah I just show up and play but you know you never been in the you never been like in the business of spearfishing or are you I competed in one Nationals oh you did which was quite a comedy of errors where was it it was at Leo Carrillo State Park here in California with my good buddy Alex Renaud and another buddy of ours, Mike Walker. And we had been probably spearfishing about a year and a half or so.

And we finagled some dive club to sponsor us because we had to be sponsored to get in this thing. So we found a dive company or dive group in Florida, gave us a rubber stamp. We entered the contest and needless to say. You guys just kicked everybody's ass. No, but we did not come in last. Oh, really?

It was great, yeah. It was interesting. How many participants will be in a national? That's the Latvian Spiro speaking up there, Giannis Pitellas. That's probably where we introduce Alex. He'd probably be able to speak on that. It's a pleasure to be here. Introduce yourself. You're

a competitive spear fisherman. I'm truly, officially retired from competitive spear fishing. You don't go anymore? Nope. I've run my gamut and now I'm tooishing. Oh, you don't go anymore? Nope. I've run my gamut, and now I'm too old. Oh. How old is he old?

So you're like in the autumn of your career as a spearfisherman? Yeah. It's come and gone. Like what happens? How old are you? 43. Dude.

So I'm just coming in, man. I'm like the, and I'm already older than you. You need to be a millennial at this point in order to take it down at the comps. Unless you're in Florida, then you need to be a millionaire because only the boys with the big money

get to play in those comps because those are big boat comps. So I'm already like too old to ever be really good. To be really good? No. To be recognized as one of the elite amongst the elite in the competition circles yeah okay because what happens your body this isn't what it was you just don't care anymore i'm not understanding you gotta be more clear in the beginning like right now yeah you're at the

beginning and you're amped oh i'm with you and you're at the beginning and you're amped. Oh, I'm with you. And you're at the point where you're ready to go, I want to see what I'm made of in comparison to everybody else. See, George and I, we did that. We said we want to see what we're made of. And so we got rubber stamped from this club in Florida

and we went out and we showed them what we were made of and what was it that you were made of we we finished second to last out of 14 teams three man teams and no but we just went in the surf surf just piled us up the yard sale kayak weight belt lost I'm paddling out there. I don't have a weight belt. I've got to do the whole competition. I got my anchor from my kayak, and I've stuffed it in here. Borrowed a couple weights from him.

Stuffed them in my pants. I drove the whole competition with a big rip in my wetsuit. It was freezing with an anchor stuffed in my wetsuit as my weight belt. And that's how the competition started for us. It was just all downhill from there. Yeah, pretty much. Okay, what year was that? Was that 2007?

I don't even, I couldn't tell you. It might have been seven or it might have been nine. That was our first U.S. Nationals. My one and only. I really got the bug. And I went, okay okay this is cool and I took the time to go and meet some of the the bigger tournament players here in northern California yeah and I had a couple guys took me under their their wing and really started to teach me how to prepare, how to learn how to set yourself up to perform at a high level

in spearfishing tournaments. Everything from learning the ocean, learning the fish, creating a strategy, understanding time. Time is really important. And I went through that for a long, long period of time. Dove in multiple nationals, qualified for the U.S. national team in 2014, went and represented the U.S. in Peru. And after Peru, went, okay, this has been an awesome run, and I'm going to transition out of the I'm doing this for sport and more into the soul spearfishing side. Yeah. And it's been a great transition. I haven't been happier about it.

I mean, couldn't be happier about it. Yeah, to be honest with you, I wouldn't be drawn to any kind of competition like that. Yeah, in every sport, there's the good and the bad. And fortunately, I was surrounded by a lot of the good. And that's what, for me, made it so fantastic. I think the thing that, one of the things I wanted to ask you guys all about, because this is on people's mind,

it used to be on my mind, what's the psychology you have for sharks? Because, like, when we're messing with that, we're a little south of Great White. We're in California right now, but we're a little bit south of the Great White area, the Great White shark area. No.

We're not. No. Because it wasn't lost on me yesterday. Sure. That we're sitting there in the water, gutting, bleeding fish that are flopping around. You got them tied to your waist. When I asked George early on, I was like, what about the sharks?

And he said, there's nothing you can do because you won't even know it until it happens he's like there's no point in thinking about it it's kind of worrying about a mountain lion right yeah which I don't even think about right right it's when he gets you it's gonna be over like that yeah it's the same for us right now before we started this trip one of the largest great whites that has been sighted was on the backside of Anacapa where we were warming up. Oh, it was? Yeah, where we started, you guys. How are you going to tell me about that?

It's not important. So what's your viewpoint on it? We'll go the same way we did introductions. How do you cope with the idea of sharks? Because you had a great white take a swipe at you. I did, I did. I was about two miles north of Albion scouting for a tournament. Tell people where that is and who aren't totally familiar.

So if you go into Mendocino County, if you know where Fort Bragg is, it's maybe 20 minutes south of there. In the great state of California. Great state of California up in Northern California. And I was scouting for a tournament. My dad was on the boat, and this is one thing that I don't do is my dad was bringing up sharks the whole way up, and I'm just like, that's just something you don't do.

He's talking about it. Yeah, he's like, yeah. Yeah, because you guys don't talk about it. No, you just don't talk about it. It's just one of those things you don't talk about, and the whole way up, he was bringing it up a little bit, and it's my dad, and I was just trying to shrug it off. So we get in the water, and always say truck it trust your instincts right and like that day i was like

ah i feel a little off but went scouted anyway uh 65 feet of water coming up from a dive where i found uh it was actually alex you'd appreciate this it was alex's link hot hole he wasn't in the tournament you were verifying it was verifying it. It is one of the best lingcod holes in Northern California. Describe to people a lingcod hole real quick. It's a truly perfect scenario. So this is in about 65 feet of water. Not too much around it, so it's actually kind of hard to find.

So you can't just happen upon this thing. It's an area you wouldn't really dive all that much and uh jumped in and really the link hot hole itself it's perfect you kind of go down and it's like these two rocks lean on each other and there's there's an entrance and an exit but to your left there's a tight hole and a lot of times what people think link hide you know want these big huge caves what they want is a maybe a cave that goes into a very tight entrance you know some of some good link odd holes are only you know the entrance is only maybe eight or ten inches high if that they like squeeze in there and really like to be secure yeah i always think to myself if a seal can't

get its head in there then it's a perfect spot for a link huh right a predator can't get its head in there, then it's a perfect spot for a link-on. A predator can't get in, but they can finagle their way in there, then you know that, okay, this is good. Let me interrupt your story. As a lifelong rod and reel fisherman, you guys deal in such a different level of detail about what's going on below the water surface yeah where we might say that's a great spire to catch a lingcod or that's a nice rock pile to catch a lingcod a spear fisherman knows the hole that that son of a lives in in the rock pile we we know the detail of the reef

especially the people as you get into it more you start carrying marker buoys and gps's and you'll not only mark mark it on gps you'll probably go into your little notebook later and say this is a westerly or northeast facing hole enter from this direction look left you know it in that much of a detail yeah so yeah So yeah, you might say a rock pile, but we know which hole in that rock pile that ling is in. And we know the prevailing swell. Yeah. Lingcod won't typically face the prevailing swell.

So we don't waste time in the prevailing swell. Really? We work on the lee side down and around the corner, where it's always down and around the corner or tight if it isn't a they don't want to get blast in the face yeah if it isn't a prevailing swell it's going to be a very specific sheltered rock pile or set of rocks yeah huh yeah all right so you go down there so you go and i gather that a lingcod hole is a lingcod hole and other lingcod like it's like a bear den, a good bear den.

Bears will, the bears will all die and then new bears will come and those bears will find that den and use it. Yeah, you can shoot a ling and have a ling in it, you know, a couple of days later. Usually the big, you know, like this, this particular hole is perfect and usually has big females in it.

And that's usually typically what you find in there. You won't find like a small male or anything like that this is a typically a big female lingcod hole so basically swimming down going to check this thing at about 65 feet you go in it's an entrance and it has a left hole and a right hole so i look in left and i didn't see anything and you look in and at the very very flashlight yeah flat you have to have a flashlight hunting these things because we're talking I'm probably in the main hole four feet five feet and this hole that the whole damn breath 65 feet under the surface we've got the point you said we're working on you the bottom is 65 feet or the holes all the whole entrance is

at about 65 feet yeah whoa so then you go and so you're in this hole and then it has a hole to the left which didn't see it initially. Then I looked way up and this hole's probably, I don't know, eight feet, nine feet back. And this thing is tucked all the way back in, just looking. Then I push out of that hole a little bit. And then there's actually a bonus.

Still holding your breath. Yeah, there's a bonus, kind of a bonus nook in this same hole. And there's vermilion a lot of times tucked in there and actually when i found this every time because i actually followed a vermilion to this hole when on this particular one that's how you found out about it no i knew where it was but as i was heading down i was like oh nice vermilion oh oh it's heading right into the where i need to go perfect um so yeah i found the ling there then uh vermilion to my right pop out there's actually

exit you can pop out the backside of it. So you went through the hole. Yeah, it's kind of like a really tight arch that has kind of caves that go, not caves, but like small holes that go left and right. What's interesting about this is if you look at this hole from the top, let's say you just dive down 30 feet. Because the bottom and the rocks are virtually the same color yeah it looks dead flat it's a very that's what makes it so special is a lot of people could swim over

this and they'd never know you have to get on the bottom in order to see it yep if i start like a spearfishing company i'm calling it hole hunter. Yeah. Go on. So there you are. So there I am. This particular day, there was really good viz, which is not typical of the North Coast. It was probably 30 feet of viz or so. So go exit the hole.

That's way ass visibility. For NorCal, it's great. And kind of on the way up, I just just shaking my head like yes that's the thing that is like uh to have I mean the ling at the time I think was around a 20 something pounder it was a it was a studling is this in competition or is this pre pre-competition what's your old man doing he's on the boat he's hanging out he's on the boat is he riding in real so bless his heart he gets violently seasick. So that's why the skill palamine patches that we had Yanni test out.

That's kind of what he uses. Yeah, Yanni. People got this impression of Yanni like he's all tough and stoic and everything. Dude. Get him around salt water, man. That dude falls apart. Go on. There you are.

Your dad's sick. You're underwater no so he's he's fine he's just sitting on the boat waiting and uh for some reason which you're not supposed to do but for some reason i looked up saw the boat and i said well i might as well okay now why can't you look up we're not i'm doing great hosting right now because we're hitting a lot of little diving tips along the way uh why can't you look up in general you shouldn't look up because site one it messes with your your throat and your airway right you're hyper extending everything um so on the way up it doesn't matter so much but uh if you are making a

deep dive and coming back up and you look up and you're just going oh shit that's a long ways up you're psychologically just putting yourself down. So you just kick up. And like you kind of learned on this trip, you start feeling that positive buoyancy point where you get a free ride up once you get past that. Oh, that's a great feeling. And I took your advice and didn't,

I took it even though I wasn't diving deep just to get in there, just to get there. Because like why form bad habits when you're just starting out? So once you told me not to look up, I just decided like i'm not even deep anyway but i won't look up yeah it's just a good habit the light just when you're looking straight once you do it a few times you know right where you're at just by the amount of light pouring through yeah if you're diving a

particular early feel you know from visibility to just kind of what's going on you'll get a different feeling for the depths yeah and then all of a sudden you feel it like rising up you just chill you can stop kicking and free right up yeah so there you are so there i am kicking and for some reason i looked up and i was going oh i might as well kick up to the boat and stuff kicking normally you just kick straight up do your recovery breaths and then kick wherever you're gonna kick for some reason i kicked to the boat and as I was reaching up, um, as my dad describes a 12 by 12 boil pushed up about a foot around me and I was grabbing the boat and knocked me off the boat. I got back on the boat, turned around and it was, you know, this just, it looked like, uh, disturbed water and like a rapids, just this huge, massive boil.

Um, and the first thing my dad says says is you think that could have been a whale and then we start talking and he's like oh i appreciate you know the backside of it and everything else um so again but like george said so he changed his mind the shark came up and changed his mind the only reason probably is the visibility was good and i was coming up next to a large object. I probably faded out against the boat because it happened right when I was reaching for the boat. So he changed his mind, thankfully,

and thankfully I didn't come up straight up or else I probably would have either gotten bumped or nailed or who knows what would have happened. I liked that you went and got right back in the water. I did. I pulled the anchor. I had my dad drop me on a link hot hole about half a mile away. Was there anybody in there?

That was empty. That was empty. And then after that, I kind of gone, you know, half a mile is just not far enough. So we ended up going out of the tournament zone about three miles, and I ended up getting the limits of everything and packed it up for the day and went home. But, yeah, you got gotta get in the water one of my good friends got similar thing happened to him and it was it was a little more of a process to get back in the water

i think the parallels between um the parallels between hunting in grizzly country and hunting in great white shark country there's a lot of parallels yeah where it's like it's just not gonna happen but when it does you hear about it yeah and it's just in the back of your head and there's this sort of like you gotta be a little bit fatalistic about it and then you also feel like everyone's telling you all the chances of getting attacked by a great white shark or you think you got better chance of getting attacked three times by lightning yeah but then you're like but you're in a very select high risk group and in like archery hunting for elk you're in a high risk group because of the

things you're not doing like in the other parallel being you have to do everything wrong. You're not making noise. Yeah. You're making elk calls. Yeah. You're like slipping around. You're out at dawn. You're out at dusk. You know, you're in the vicinity of elk.

Grizzlies like to be in the vicinity of elk. And so in spearfishing, it's like people could be like, oh, you know, beach goers have zero chance of getting hit. But then you're like, you're going where the fish are. Seals go where the fish are. You're dealing with dead fish. And you're acting like a seal realistically, right? Yeah, you're like high risk shit, man. Sticking your head into a hole.

Wearing a black rubber suit. Wearing a black rubber suit. Black rubber suit. And then slowly ascending, right? For the picking. And this is something that we've kind of talked about in NorCal is if you, we are starting to push and some of it's just training and some of it's just, you know, learning from other mentors. But we are pushing into deeper realms, right? You know, you talk to someone 20 years ago, very, very few, if anyone was hunting in 65, 70 feet of water.

Well, now, now you know this last nationals that's a good that's like a good shark depth uh it's just it's putting you off of you know traditionally the people say points are bad for sharks or certain areas are bad for sure well yeah this is pushing you off those points you know a couple hundred yards plus just like a a place that we scouted for uh noyo nationals i mean were, I think this high spot was like half a mile offshore and it dropped off it, it, the shout, you know, it was, there was a high spot at maybe 50 feet, but we were doing a lot of diving to 85 feet. What did we name that spot?

So I think because really when we were scouting for this, it was eight to 10 foot swell. So we were at the whole thing where we were planning on being offshore um and we were actually with dennis hostler he's what five-time national champion seven seven-time national oh man he snuck two more in there um so we were working this and we had to use a live boat because we couldn't anchor up uh because everything was the swell was was way too far up so um And a live boat means that there's a dude running the boat. Running the boat, not anchored.

Kind of like we did this morning because the current was running too well. I think we ended up diving or dumping Alex off. And then... What are you guys telling? A shark attack story? Is this a shark story?

No. What are you guys talking about? You have like a side a side chat yeah this is a little side chat between us but this is about putting yourself in a situation where you are in the shark zone oh okay no we're talking specifically about the great white it's not a side chat we're half mile offshore on a series of high spots, pinnacles, with drop off on the outside to 200 feet. And it's, if you were to look left and right parallel with the coastline, there's nothing out there. It's just open ocean both ways. And that's what people didn't do decades ago. I forgot that's where we're going with this.

The spearfish were pushing yeah and there's there's more great whites than there were 10 years ago correct yeah allegedly yeah they've been protected since about the mid-90s so they're rebounding rebounding yeah um and we don't worry about it it It is what it is. I think... When was the last time someone in this state got killed by a great white? That was Randy Fry. I don't remember the year,

but it's probably been 15 years. See, that's the difference between this and that's the difference between this and other stuff because every year someone gets dusted off by a grizzly. Couple people a year. Few people a year.

I can't speak to great whites taking people in other fashion right swimmers or surfers or anything but people in your community people in our community the last one that was fatal was randy fry i think shark attack fatalities in general are extremely low because there's a difference between an attack for food and and a bite for curiosity and great whites or defense i mean yeah that's a big one great whites they nibble for curiosity yeah they do uh what's called a test bite yeah it's uh it's it's very gentle yeah it's a very gentle. Yeah, it's a very gentle, hits you at 20 miles an hour test bite. And that's enough for human flesh

to be a killer. So that means what to you? Nothing. Oh. I mean, what can you do about it? I've got medical kit on the boat or always have a medical kit in the kayak. Yeah.

Med kit on the boat. Most of the people I dive with could handle something like that if it came down to it but again if you're gonna think about it and it defines your day you're never gonna get in the water yeah I was surprised the degree to which I wasn't thinking about it because you guys are probably past this but when you're in those kelp forests you know I made the mistake recently of watching they had a great white that had a camera on it and they had footage of that great white

that great white hunting the kelp forest which is some cool footage man yeah 15-20 feet of water right just cruising right through just working your way through the kelp forest it was unbelievable but it's like it's it's kind of it's just spooky in there especially in the waning light when we were out last night when

the sun was going down that's called the magic hour oh and it's just like a spooky atmosphere it's so funny because you're like in spook land with your head down in the water and it seems like you're the only person on the planet and there's like shadows and it's dark and it's a kelp forest and there's little canyons it's quiet and then you lift your head up and look it's like sunny california man there's like people out like sailboats and shit then you put your head back down like wow it's totally scary and i'm like oh i'm in california oh it's totally scary back and forth it's so intimate with the and then that when you found that bait ball at dusk going out there and those rays yeah the eagle rays cruising around you guys saw eagle rays no they're actually bad sorry that's sorry bat rays okay. But it's like, if those aren't ghosts of evil people,

I don't know what they are. If you're really evil and you die, you get to come back as a Bat Ray at dusk. Well, they have that nose, too, that kind of looks like a Joker smile on the front end of them. I liked them, but I'm like, that's evil personified. nose too that kind of looks like that like a joker smile on the front end of them i liked him but i'm like how that's evil personified that's like a ghost coming through the water yeah i got in front of that wall right we had that big wall of blacksmiths that were defining where the current was starting to pick back up and we were sitting in front of that i made a dive look back at the bait wall looked

around looked up and two coming right over the top just outlined silhouette right over the top and they just they move through the water so smooth yeah it just it's insane they're just haunting the ocean yeah they're like ghosts sent to haunt the ocean with spookiness and they like the flashers oh they're spooky yeah does anybody eat them who eats a ray in the ocean some people like no not people like what i've heard some people actually take like a cookie cutter and will punch yeah you done that no i've never done no i've cleaned some i don't know if they have a natural predator they taste like scallops well i mean hammerheads specialize in them you don't have those right here right don't have this here yeah a natural predator. They taste like scallops or something. Well, I mean, hammerheads specialize in them. You don't have those right here, right?

Don't have those here. I thought juvenile great white sharks targeted them, but those might be stingrays, not bat rays. I don't know. So early on, I took a couple leopard sharks, which are actually really good eating, with spear. And then Alex was out on a trip with me, and I'm like, man know they're right up in the

little rocks you know 10 feet of water they're cruising around in the in the stuff and he's like nope i'm like why not man it's it's good table fare you should get these he's like nope i've made my i've made a deal with the sharks i'm not gonna screw with them they're not gonna screw with me and he's never taken one but he just said nope i'm not gonna screw with them they've honored their end of the deal yeah it's been a good bargain so far. And I've been in some good sharky waters. Same with Greg. Been in some big-time sharky waters.

But you guys lose your catches to sharks. Occasionally. How's that play out? Fast. Fast and violent. Depends on what type of shark it is. Give me a scenario when you'd lose your catch to a shark. By the time you started that sentence to now your catch is gone yeah yeah it's that fast and it depends on how

many are around you know if it's one sometimes you can kind of fend them off of your catch but if it's more than one it just can become like a true feeding frenzy i was offshore at texas and i shot a really big amberjack and there's a lot of sharks around and once that did you already know the sharks were around yeah we're targeting wahoo i mean you get comfortable with sharks you start being able to you know learn their body language like any animal you know they start putting their pectoral fins down humping their back swimming a little more erratically it's you start getting a good idea of when it's time to leave um something like a tiger shark that's a little more calculated theyically it's you start getting a good idea of when it's time to leave

um something like a tiger shark that's a little more calculated they slink in and out of visibility so sometimes you just get in there's a big tiger shark you know it's just let's move but um but you don't like to be in the vicinity of a tiger shark yeah so i was not to change a whole other story like i was on a pinnacle out of south af, and there was four different types of shark on there. But there's a pretty big tiger shark. And most of the sharks, you watch them. You know, okay, that one's a... But this tiger shark would come up, fade out of his ability.

Three minutes later, he'd be right behind you and within six feet of you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're just very, very stealthy, calculated sharks. Bulls are just super aggressive i mean there's there's a lot of aggressive sharks but yeah there's just a few they're a little more of a handful how big is the what is the tiger shark you're talking about uh 14 15 feet somewhere in there is a pretty healthy one they get bigger than that but that's big enough to like i said they're very stealthy so

yes you kind of kind of decide if you want to deal with them or not that particular pinnacle i made the bad bad move i shot a akuta um and it was just yeah i actually landed the fish i got the fish on the boat but i was just i threw the fish on the boat and jumped in the boat right away and it was just like oh god and then i i ended up nothing happened i mean on the boat and jumped in the boat right away. And it was just like, oh God. And then I ended up, nothing happened. I mean, I had a couple people in the water kind of helping me out, but I probably shouldn't have pulled the trigger in that circumstance. But you learn to deal with them. It's just, they're there. Just like anything. So when they take your catch, they'll come right up to you. Yeah. I mean, there's times where you do not defend your catch. You just

like that. I was talking about Texas and that was one of those things I shot, I mean, there, there's times where you do not defend your catch. You just like that. I was talking about Texas and that was one of those things I shot, you know, around a 90 to a hundred pound class Amberjack. We were actually targeting Wahoo and, uh, it's in the wintertime off of Texas and there's just a lot of sharks and they're, they're very aggressive in it. So I shot a big Amberjack. It was big enough where I thought I stoned it. I didn't. And it just did one or two tail twitches and sank under the murk. And once that happened, it was just amberjack handoff. And it was just shark to shark to shark.

The next five minutes was my float being dragged around by the sharks. Yeah, that's the worst part. The fish, so what? Your fish is gone. We shoot cable in this situation, like a 500-pound multi-strand cable. And when, it's no big deal. They take your fish, but in the meantime,

that cable gets in one of the shark's mouths because as they just devour, they're running everywhere, and now your gear is just going. And it can take 20 minutes to get your gear back, and all you want to do is fish. Yeah. So my float's going that way.

I've got to wait for the boat. My buddy's laughing at me and my float is just running off because the shark is now panicking. It was eating, the frenzy's over and now it's panicking

because it's caught up in the cable or the cable in its mouth. They eventually spit it out. But that could be a mile, mile and a half later. Like, come on, man. Just take the fish. Let me have my gear back so I can get back in the boat,

get back up current, and I can get my own fish. Hey, folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness, do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew. Our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada.

The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. That's right. We're always talking about OnX here on the Meat Eater Podcast. Now you guys in the Great White North can be part of it. Be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are

without cell phone service. That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services handpicked by the OnX Hunt team. Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more.

As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnXx club y'all um greg you said something interesting to me yesterday where you talked about uh

that free diving or spearfishing i can't remember what you were saying reveals all the things that are wrong with your body absolutely absolutely like all your problems if you want a body check just go free diving you're like man that hurts and that doesn't feel good and i drink too much coffee and you're like heart problems yeah breast problems lung issues yep it's very taxing reflux everything and that's why as you kind of go through the sport you kind of you do this isn't this trip wasn't the best example but um when you start pushing you know if you're going to do a serious hardcore dive you tell your you know you tailor your diet to that trip you know you something if i'm doing a lot of deep dive in i will basically hydrate in the morning with maybe

a little oatmeal do a lot of stretching, and I won't eat till dinner. I might have a light, light, light snack, but it's just hydration all day. And that's to defend from acid reflux. That's just as far as changing metabolism, your stomach having to digest everything. It's just, it reveals kind of everything funky or how your body reacts to different things and i can drink coffee all day long i go have two cups in the morning go free diving i will have the worst acid reflux ever that's two things i noticed is we i had a cup of coffee one morning we go out and the reflux as you explain is because you're spending all your time upside down right because you dive head first yep and it's you really it's

hard to dive at an angle well you shouldn't generally you should not do that the goal and you can if you if you like know hey i'm gonna tuck under this kelp and dive down an angle into the reef that's fine but generally depending on what you're doing you want to try to go straight up so you're supposed to do that i just thought i started to think it was just easier to go straight up and down i mean it just went, it depends on what you're doing. If you have a link hot hole or a reef to check at 80 feet, you don't want to go at an angle because you're going to add how many feet at an angle. Oh, I got you.

It's the most efficient way down. But the thing I noticed, and when you're gearing up to go down, there's a relaxation, calming of your heart, and a breathing sequence you go through. One cup of coffee, I was okay. And I was having some acid reflux, some upside down, and all your shit from your stomach is coming up into your throat. A second cup of coffee, I realized that I could, because you're laying there and you're so focused on your heart,

I could feel the second cup of coffee. i'll be honest with you heart down man i was gonna tell you not to drink the coffee but i thought break them in slowly lesson learned slowly like that second cup i actually was i was so aware of it yep so aware of it in the terms of how my heart was like, just trying to like calm my breath and get my heart down. And I think that's one of the reasons in freediving, you kind of start learning more about your bodies because you're, it's like a type of yoga, right? You're focused on your breathing.

Truly. You feel everything. You're kind of in a whole different mindset. And you're kind of off, really, right? You're trying to shut your mind off and slow your body down. And that's kind of where you start learning a little bit more of what works and what doesn't. Because, you know, something like acid reflex,

which if you're just running around throughout your day, you might just burp up some stuff and go about your day. Where this is, I mean, it is. Oh, yeah. Burp and shit up into your snorkel. Yeah. That's a drag, man. If you don't lose it.

Yeah. Well, yeah. And then i outright then i outright vomited like i i'm talking full barrel full barrel like dude drank too much alcohol yeah having a bad flu it wasn't pretty vomiting oh and it was coffee color did you notice that oh i noticed that and then i slipped right in and took fish right out from under that chum line yeah it was nice no man i had some full-on vomits because i was drinking salt water and i was probably a little bit seasick which i didn't realize happened when you're riding in the waves

oh yeah but mostly drinking salt water drinking too much coffee probably dehydrated puking all that junk up dude it was miserable and that's one thing hard you know when you're traveling a lot spearfishing your first day or two a lot of times can be a break-in period because you're traveling you're a little off you're generally dehydrated you're tired it's just a lot of things all at once but yeah i feel that it's a kind of fitness that you'd get that would be applicable to a lot of other stuff like there's some fitness that doesn't really matter like it matters it's cool you know if you get like you're you do enough weights or your neck gets all thick and that's some people think that's cool right but like it doesn't translate no but i feel like spearfishing fitness yes uh and what why are you

why are you giving me the latvian smirk right now because i want to hear there if they say yes or no yeah we know we know a lot about fitness, but it's different. It's not aerobic. It's anaerobic. What do you mean? Yeah. Oh. When we're running, we're aerobic.

Oh, so you feel that it doesn't translate to like, it's not broadly applicable to that fitness. It helps. If you're a good aerobic fitness, it goes a long, long, long ways. That's a good point, man. The goal is to not get all high. Right. So the physical strength and your aerobic strength allows you to recover faster

and essentially stay in the water longer. And the aerobic strength helps your heartbeat because your heartbeat goes through massive changes in a dive. The moment you hold your breath, your heartbeat goes down. You make your dive, your mammalian reflux kicks in, your heartbeat goes down further. As you turn to come back up and you hit the surface, that first breath, your heartbeat spikes.

For example, you might start your dive at typical, let's just take you for example. You probably started at 90 beats per minute. I have no idea. That's your guess? That's, yeah, 90 beats per minute. Is that good? Greg and I might be able to get down to about 75. Because we're moving a lot, right, in the water.

You're probably at 90. You went down. You probably dropped from 90 to the high 70s. Okay. Maybe low 70s through your first couple days here, which is pretty significant. When you hit the surface, that first breath, your heart was probably back to 120 to 125 within seconds. Cycling, cycling new air, cycling out nitrogen. Oh, okay. And then recover. Greg, he might start a dive at 75, 75,

and might get down into the high 30s, low 40s because of training, mammalian reflux. And he hits the surface, his heart rate will spike 120 to 130. It'll still spike. Cycle through, come back down. So your aerobic strength is huge for that, right? Tons of pressure on your heart and your lungs and your vascular system.

Yeah. You know what? Okay. Kind of what I meant too was, I had an observation recently. Let me back up. Because I had an observation recently where, no, I'll get there.

I'll get there. I was having a lot of knee problems. And it got worse and worse in my head because I thought I needed knee surgery. So then all I could think about was how bad my knee hurt. Yep. But then I go to an orthopedic doctor. He does his old magic. Tells me, in fact fact I don't need a knee

surgery my knees look fine I probably have like a some band that runs from your hip your IT band yeah he's like you know you could do some PT but that's it's tugging on there and that's why the pain drifts around and you could do some stuff and it's tight and then all of a sudden about two days later my knee problem's gone i said to yannis man the the membrane that separates my brain from my body is not very thick and yannis said there is no membrane separating your brain from your body so when i mentioned the fitness level i think one of the things i'm thinking about is the level of that would be applicable to other things in life like hunting

is the level of uh there's a high level of gr like gr gr there's a high level of grr a high level of focus and a high level of um willingness to subject oneself to something that some part of your body is thinking let's just stop doing this and go home yep all day all day over like it's so much easier to not go spearfishing it just is yeah it's easier to stay on the boat and catch ocean whitefish on chunks of squid the honest face the whole first day was looked like that yeah just like why in the world would you put why in the world subject yourself to this because when it clicks it clicks and it's really good but i mean the ability to like do that thing and and watching you guys the first day we got in so to to get us up to speed we went out i want you guys to explain like what we did

to practice the the line explain the line grabbing uh before you explain the line grabbing i'll say that right away when you guys got in the water i I just noticed that, one, you guys are calm and methodical on land. Yeah. Which maybe you're like very organized, very methodical. I've never been called organized, Steve. Your stuff is organized. You have organized brains, okay?

You're like very, you're purposeful. You're pragmatic. Uh-huh um you guys seem like like highly capable at a lot of stuff right right thank you yeah you're not like you for instance you don't drink alcohol right right which is like a thing you've decided that's just like you made a thing like what's there to gain from it what's there to lose from it like you run calc you like you're calculating in your head like your life right and you seem like that and you get in the water and it becomes more amplified but you guys are so like calm and slow and deliberate and purposeful that even when you go to put your hand to your nose to plug it it's like you've done that 10 000 times and you thought about how one pinches one's nose how did we tuck the elbow in so it doesn't drag

everything just seems so like i do it this way and it's because it works good no that's what it feels like it's just like i get the water i'm like right that's my feeling like in my head it's I'm going back you guys are going to say hmm in the water yeah I feel like the hope for me it was three days the first day was a lot of there's too much thrashing going around and then by today I'm just like yeah just chill you know you're in the water maybe There's too much thrashing going around. And then by today, I was just like, yeah, just chill. You're in the water, man. We drove up on you. You're laying perfectly flat, relaxed.

He'd return to the womb by then, man. I realize that if you kick your fins, if you make like a 90 instead of leaving your feet kind of, I don't know what that position is, but your toes down below your ankles that seemed to drag my feet down and as soon as i would kick my like more 90s with my ang with my ankles that would make my feet come up right up high yeah a lot of its body position kind of figuring out where how to sit and what's comfortable yeah you guys say you like to lay like a like a log

drifting in the ocean hopefully something when you're looking down yeah um yeah i want you to explain the hand pulling down thing but to get to another point about the calmness is i i learned how to look at you and know when you were going to dive because you look like a like a dead seal yeah like your arms you're kind of like you'd look like a like a somewhat like a passing glance so I'm like oh there's a drowned person oh yeah like just sort of like floating in the ocean your arms did kind of go down I bet oh Greg's gonna dive and you just look like you're like totally like giving yourself to the

sea yeah I mean that's to get your heart rate right but I could think if I got close to you that I could hear the weird breathing oh like the cleansing breast the cleansing breast yeah and then i could start to listen for that but yeah you first just look like it like you were dead yep but going or whatever you're doing hopefully slower than that blowing a sailboat yeah a baby paper sailboat without making the water ripple yeah but then there's those little somewhat hyper breaths he he does he has a cleansing breath routine yeah i don't do that and the thing that you guys talk about breathing that really stuck in my head is when you take your last breath that you're feeling like three stages

yeah you're like filling your balls with air imagine and then you're like and then you top it off at the tippy top of your chest to be chopping you'd like pull your shoulders back it's a great way to it's like you just imagine just like this empty cavity filling from the bottom up with air. I want to liken that quite a bit. I know when I do it right, there's no resistance. My stomach just floats up. My chest opens up, right?

Lower thoracic, upper thoracic, little scapulic rotation. Is that a word? I like it. I like it. Scapulic rotation. Is that a word? I like it. I like it. Scapulic rotation. You just got to be instant. And if you could see it, you'd really understand it.

And it comes up, and then my neck feels like it gets a little, and right when I'm pulling that snorkel out, my cheeks just puff, and it's just one fat air sac. And when I make that dive, and I know. You forgot to clear. Oh, yeah.

I clear hands-free. Did you notice that? I did. And you do a little bit of that now and then. I do. I mix it up, yeah. Tell the name of the two ways to clear. Frenzel and Valsalva.

Yeah. I've been Frenzel. I think you're Frenzel now. No, I'm Frenzel. I'm hardcore Frenzel, man. You're Frenzel and Valsalva? Yeah, I've been Frenzel. I think you're Frenzel now. No, I'm Frenzel. I'm hardcore Frenzel, man. You're Frenzlers. So, yeah, but you do your little clear at the surface. You start at the top and never stop.

Clear. Clear. Clear. You don't wait until you're like, ears are going to blow up and then decide to clear. Explain how we started out our trip. Started out the trip. Did a long-ass boat ride. Long-ass boat ride.

Drank a bunch of coffee, which you're not supposed to do. Had a big breakfast, which you're not supposed to do. In a large fishing boat. In a large fishing boat. That might at passing glance resemble a yacht. Maybe. We might have dabbled in the yachting. To the untrained eye, it might look like a yacht.

I think the definition is 39 feet. Anything over 39 feet could be classified as a yacht. We're just a bunch of dudes. So we put a line out for you. And this is not typical of a spearfishing trip. But it's a great way to warm up. You say it's not typical. No, I mean, you're average every day.

You were teaching us. You were mentoring me and Yanni. Yeah, there you go. And sometimes we will. If you're planning on doing deep diving on your spearfishing trip, you might spend 10 minutes throwing a line out and doing some pull-downs. But for you guys, we set up a buoy at, what was it, 32 feet? I think it was the bottom somewhere around there.

Which the deepest you've ever been is what? 15-ish? I mean, I'd be shocked to hear that I dove to 20. No, because like I said, in the lake where I grew up, the deepest place in that lake was 23 feet. There you go. And I don't know that it was the deepest hole we went, which is down by Buckskin Bend,

but you would now and then dive down past the drop-off and stick your hand and experience how cold the muck was on the bottom of the lake. But no, I had definitely not dove more than 20 feet deep. and stick your hand and experience how cold the muck was on the bottom of the lake but no i hadn't i had definitely not dove more than 20 feet yeah so we set the line at you know basically one atmosphere probably like 18 feet maybe yeah it was where's where were your deepest if i really was going for it yeah and we put the put the uh weight at about 33 feet about an atmosphere and the big thing uh with that is that's where you experience

your biggest lung compression. So it becomes at about that point, that's the biggest part where your equalizing will become harder. So basically set up a buoy with a line going down to about 33 feet. And what you do... Bunch of weight on the bottom. Bunch of weight on the bottom. You need at least 20 pounds.

You should have 20 pounds or a little bit more, 20, 25 pounds. And the buoy is just drifting with the weight on it. Drifting. We tied it off to the boat because there was a slight current. Yeah. So it doesn't float off. I mean, it doesn't need to hit the bottom. You can just hang the weight off the buoy.

Generally, yeah. Generally, you don't want it on the bottom. You want a little off the bottom. And you start by not even kicking. And some people actually not even wear their fins at this point they'll just jump in no fins and slowly start you know doing your breathing process getting water on your face kicks in that mammalian dive reflex slows everything down and you start pulling down and you start equalizing basically every other

pull right so you're pulling, clear, pull, clear. Like every time your hand comes off, clear. Yeah, basically clearing on your way down. And that basically, one, for you guys, the big thing was we had talked about clearing with the Frenzel method before, but that was to try to see how you guys were clearing. And to do it inverted.

Yeah, right. You can walk around all day upright. Yeah. Above water. Well, around all day upright. Yeah. Above water. Well, yeah, me and Yanni, we've been Frenzling all the time. In the office and everything, we Frenzled. No, Frenzling. But we weren't Frenzling.

We weren't hanging each other by the ankles and Frenzling like that. Yeah, upside down and add pressure. Yeah. Body starts to do a couple different things. I want to walk the listeners through what I'm talking about and check me if i want to mess up uh to clear properly while spearfishing you need to learn how to pop your ears by not without moving your diaphragm that's that's correct i mean it's dead on it's what do you mean it's correct it's like absolutely true it is but there's even if you go further into the into the like competition

world there's even debate about how efficient the frenzel technique is but like for your everyday recreational person okay frenzel is basically okay just let me just do it again but like don't don't parse hairs youing hair is? Picture taking the hair and slicing the hair even thinner. Splitting a frog's hair four times. All right, you do it. You tell people. No, you tell... Okay, so what you don't want to do,

or what you advised me to try... On a conference call... Is this another mentor moment? No, this is a mentor moment. This is the fourth problem I've had with my mentor. Where now he's backing out on things he explained to me because he's imagining his spearfishing buddies yep doing that well yeah but well yeah that's only part of the story as a as a listener you nailed it okay so picture that you the listener, take a moment, grab, pinch your nose.

Yep. And just blow with all your might until your ears pop. Lightly. I just did it. Blow lightly until your ears pop. Why are you giving me the Latvian smirk again? It's just fun watching you do this. Okay.

Now. And you got that cute voice going when you plug your nose. Imagine that. If you're doing the frenzel technique correct you are doing with your throat what you do when gurgling mouthwash you're shutting off you you are isolating with your epiglottis your lungs yes yeah there's a horrible youtube video that greg loves that explains how to do I don't think it's so bad. I didn't say I loved it.

I said it will explain in depth what's going on. Greg loves the video and loves watching the person. That guy does a good job explaining what it is. So I didn't think so. I didn't learn. I didn't understand it until I had a conference call with Greg. Oh, thank you. Yeah, a little plug for your dive shop.

So you, echo your gargling mouthwash. So most people struggle with being able to know what their soft palate is and how to isolate their epiglottis. Yes. And for me, the simplest way to explain is, you know,

if you are gurgling mouthwash, you are controlling your epiglottis, right? You're basically shutting everything off. If you weren't, you'd either choke you are controlling your epiglass, right? You're basically shutting everything off. If you weren't, you'd either choke on it or go into your stomach, right? So it's basically shutting everything off. And that way you can use your basically epiglass and your upper respiratory system to clear your ears. Yeah, if you will, the listener can take their tongue and explore the roof of their mouth and if you go where you put a diaphragm call that's your hard palate go back and there's

a little soft area why you give me the smirk again i'm right now i'm working my tongue through my doing what you're explaining so bring your tongue back and there's a soft spot back there yep if you are doing the frenzel clearing method you close your gargling deal yep take your tongue and you're kind of driving your tongue up into the soft palate and creating a little that that's like the feeling that i have and like you're like it's basically a little air pop in your ears and you're not doing anything with your chest no and that's the big thing is you're basically you want your soft palate which is if you put your tongue even further back there's that soft part and that's your soft palate and you want that actually in a neutral position so if you

do an example of if you can't isolate your soft palate is if you're doing a neti pot. If you can't kind of separate anything out, that neti pot will either, the water will either go into your mouth or go down your throat.

If you can isolate your soft palate, it'll go in one nostril out the other one. So it's learning all the different parts of your neck, your throat,

your soft palate, your sinuses, all that other stuff. And the reason... This is great. The reason you don't want to get... I love this. I got a question.

What's so funny? If you keep diving, you won't even remember any of this. I don't know. I got no idea what you guys are talking about. You just clear. I just clear. But... I just show up and dive.

Clearing is the obstacle. Yeah. So when we first started talking. It's the number one thing that separates me from having all of the fish in the ocean be dead. Right. Is clearing. If I could clear, there would be no fish left in the ocean. You can clear now, right?

Yeah, thank God. Thank God. Thank God. George, scuba dove before he free dove, technically. And scuba diving, you start to create good clearing habits. Yeah, but you got all the time in the world. You're not in such a damn hurry. Doesn't matter. You're still creating, the clearing takes as long as a finger snap, right?

So you really don't think about how it's hard to clear. No. Once you get it. It is not even something that... The only time I think about it is when I get plugged up and at 33 feet, it's going wee. My ear's like, ow. Yeah.

And then I've got to grab... For a beginner. But in the beginning, it's the major obstacle. It's the main thing. And I have to, annoyingly... It's the top priority. I'm trying to grab. But for a beginner, it's the major obstacle. It's the main thing. And I have to, annoyingly, I'm trying to do my dive, and I have to stop, waste precious seconds, to turn my head upright to catch a bad, if I really have a hard time catching a clear,

I've got to snake around, get my head upright, catch a clear, and then get back into my groove. And that eats up your time. And that goes back to the point of man it sure is a lot of work yeah it eats up your time that's what keeps you from finding all the fish and shooting them but i would i would say you did awfully well though despite you did pretty well and we should probably give you some props eventually but we might wait no i don't want, I don't want to get into that. I just want it to be that I'm an aspiring spearfisher. But that's the number one.

Anyways, clearing is probably the number one thing that will stop someone from being successful in freediving. And if you can't clear, you cannot descend. And it is what will stop you. A spearfisher, but not you guys once told me that, like my whole life people have told me they can't clear but just a thing you have to learn how to do yeah i mean it's it's something and i think one of our early conversations is that hey put your hand on your diaphragm and clear and you said your diaphragm was clearing you know that's that's not gonna work yeah explain

just we'll leave this we'll put this to rest we'll start talking about how you guys hunt pelagic fish but um why why can't you just use your uh whole diaphragm explain to people what happens so basically if you're using your diaphragm you're using your diaphragm to put pressure on your lungs to move the air up into your basically throw it into your um station tubes to equalize your eardrum so if you you're upside down, one air floats, right? So your air is going to be against your diaphragm. You're having to push it, I think, something like 60 centimeters. It's a long ways to push it down to get it down to your head to equalize your eardrums.

Because it wants to go the other direction. It does. It's trying to go up through your fins. Basically up to your toes, yeah. So a lot of times it'll work in very shallow water but not as as you go deeper it will not work yeah and right now you've worked your top 30 feet you've learned a frenzel no no okay you're you're working on friends i got better and better and better and then my ears got weird and funny now this is what's going to happen when you break when you finally break your 60 foot mark we're going to have to teach you how

to do a mouth fill so all the air that's available in your mouth has now compressed people that are very good that can control the epiglottis will hold that remaining air in their mouth people who don't control the epiglottis where does the air go gravity through their fin pressure a lot of time it gets pushed into their stomach and you lose the air now you've made your dive you're down at 60 about 66 yeah talk about what's happening to your mask. You've got to now add air to your mask, and you have to add air back into your mouth in order to equalize all your open air cavities. So you do what's called a grouper, like a grouper call.

Right? And that's something not everyone has to, I mean, I don't grouper call at depth until you get really deep but some people have to group recall at shallow depths and I pre-load my mouth with air right around 60-65 feet always pre-load

so I've got plenty to deal with right around 60-65 feet where are you getting the air from? in your lungs but it's compressed so we do this group recall if you were to close your mouth feet. Where are you getting the air from? In your lungs. But it's compressed. So we do this grouper call. If you were to close your mouth and go

take a little breath, you get a little pressure, and now make a grouper grunt. Go from your stomach and push it into your cheeks. See that? You filled your cheeks. That's a grouper call. And then close the epiglottis and now you get to use that air to make your mask comfortable and

continue clearing as you work your way down to 100. Because your mask starts wanting to suck your eyeballs out. Oh, it's miserable. Miserable. It's miserable. At what depth is that happening? Depends at the volume of your mask. Yeah. It makes a big difference. But for me, personally, when I'm diving

60 to 65, I'm preparing my mouth fill, adding additional air into the mask. And then from there, it's smooth sailing. I can then clear comfortably up to 115, 120, no problem. But I hit about 100. If I don't have enough air in my mouth, I physically can't do another grouper gulp because everything's so compressed, I can't get enough air out. So if I don't preload, then I've got to stop my dive.

I've talked a lot of times over the years about how houndsmen, like people that hunt with hounds, hold more units of information in their head than most other kinds of hunters. There's more units of info in there than other kind of hunters. I do think that spear fishermen have more units of information packed in their head than normal fishermen? I'd agree. Because there's just this whole other added thing about staying alive.

Yeah, yeah. A lot of body checks when you're underwater, right? Did you find yourself when you were diving kind of going how do i feel no but i found myself every time i got in the water feeling like i must have forgot some part of this like i was like pleasantly surprised to sort of get in the water and be like oh yeah my here got the weight belt on my crotch strap it's a good mentor spear excellent yeah snorkel kinda sometimes once you got in let's say you got in your mojo and you're out there and you're making your dives you were out there for a long time i i saw you swim maybe a mile along that reef line and you're working your deal oh i'm lost

in the world then yeah but at what point are you diving and going okay i feel really good right now yeah that would strike me as on i would take note because it was the unusual feeling to feel good sure i'd be like wow i feel okay this was it this was did you ever have a dive when you didn't think about diving and you just dove no or do you was it always very process? Always very deliberate. A little bit of dread. Like not looking forward to it. Why am I out here? Be like, maybe I'll just stay at the surface. And be like, no, because that's like giving up and dying. I need to go back down and like mess with my ears.

I'll just keep listening to the Darth Vader breath. Do you feel like it's Darth Vader when you're breathing? I'm like, why am I breathing like that? Just breathe chill. And I would for like three breaths and then I catch myself Yeah, the Darth Vader. No, I loved it. Loved it. But no, I'm not I would take note if I felt

comfortable. A little bit of paranoia of the unknown it's like going through brush it's like going through thick brush underwater to be in the kelp it's like the two things you don't want like in jet life generally like you don't want to be stuck underwater yeah and you don't want to be in thick brush but here you are underwater in thick brush with like a ceiling above you that somehow you have to penetrate when you come back. Oh, yeah. You're underwater trying to scout out a place where you can come up and get a breath.

Looking for that sunbeam. Looking for a sunbeam so you can poke your noggin up through there and get a breath of air. Oh, man. Okay. Talk about hunting pelagics. This is interesting. We kind of covered hole hunting. Hole hunting.

Yep. It's its own thing. There's a lot of different styles hunting. Pel yep the hole is its own thing there's a there's a lot of different styles hunting uh pelagics are a whole yeah how do you you tell me how do you guys divide the world up uh i would say blue water and reef okay are the big is a big split deep reef deep reef and then blue water blue water let's start with reef yeah people have rough run down what reef hunting is let's call reef 60 feet and less yeah yeah 60 feet and less um depends on where you're diving i mean it's every every location the cool thing about the u.s is it has so many different regions with different species of fish that it's just nothing's the same you can go northern california is

different than southern california which is different than you get down into baja is a whole nother thing the northeast you get in the striper and tog and all those fish you go south of there you get into a whole nother set of fish florida has both sides that are different sites of fish it's just i think in the u.s the hawaiians are probably the best reef hunters. 60 feet and less. Fast fish. You have to learn a lot of different techniques based on what you're hunting. In Hawaii, because it's so sunny and there's such good visibility,

that you learn to, while you're looking down, you learn to look for shadows. So you can stalk fish. So you can put your body in that shadow. You ever been on the highway, driving along happy as a clam, and there's a highway patrolman under an overpass sitting in a shadow.

Yeah. And you're like, I never saw that guy. Yeah. Same concept. You stick your body in that shadow, hope you don't get bit by an eel and you wait right the Hawaiians are phenomenal at that yeah Hawaiians in Florida yeah Floridians really good Floridians fall more in the deep reef I mean the Hawaiians are of course have a great

deep reef right yeah um and then doing that kind of hunt next we did a fair bit of it you guys also you kind of scouting from the surface a little bit if you can or you dive down to find the nooks and crannies that you'll go explore but i noticed you a lot of times be looking down and you have a pretty good eye for it yeah because i would watch you looking down when there was good clarity and i wouldn't see and then you'd go down and vanish into a hole or vanish into a ledge that i wouldn't recognize i wouldn't see that i wouldn't see the ledge i wouldn't realize there's like a little heidi hole down there yeah you get an eye for it um i guess i'm i there's there's a couple different types of spearfishing when i'm i'm the one that i will kick a lot until i find i see what

i like and and what i I can read really well. And then I'll stop and work the area. Some people will just methodically inch by inch work a reef. I'll kick until I see something I like, whether it's bait or a certain feature underwater. And you get trained kind of going, you know, the eelgrass is laying this way and, you know, you learn how to read it where it sways back and forth going, oh, that's a hole. You know, I'm going to go pick up that hole. You just get an eye for it.

It's just like anything. It's just like you up in the mountains. You have an eye for what you're looking for and what specifically you want to hunt in. Yeah, like little pockets that are going to hold stuff. In one, you went down and shined a flashlight into it. Came and got me.

Yep. And then we went down together and shined a flashlight. I was looking into a cupboard. Yeah, yeah. And there was a sheep's head hiding there. Yeah, yeah, and it's, you just learn how to read certain reefs

and how to hole hunt. I mean, I would say divers from Northern California are very, very good hole hunters because that's what we do all day. And that's where 90% of the good fish are in the holes. Yeah, hole hunter. Yeah. Ground and pound.

Ground and pound, yeah. That's right, ground. Ground and pound, yeah. Hey, folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew.

Our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land hunting zones aerial imagery 24k topo maps waypoints and tracking that's right you were always talking about uh we're always talking about on x here on the meat eater podcast now you um you guys in the

great white north can can be part of it be part of the excitement you can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service that's a sweet function as part of it. Be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services hand picked by the OnX Hunt team. Some of our favorites

are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try on x out if you visit on x maps.com slash meet on x maps.com slash meet welcome to the to the on x club y'all okay move on to plagi because this is the thing that was pretty interesting that we did. Yeah. Now we're working

with some attractants. We're not chumming because that whole shark thing we're not cool with. But we're using the attractant, right? So it's like people generally don't want to chum in shark areas. You'll cut burly. It just depends. I mean, yellowtail, i don't feel chumming

for yellowtail over like a flasher works much yeah yeah depends on what you're going for and again some things you just have to keep simple floating flasher nice and simple you throw it out it does its deal and you have a little throw flasher that you throw and it hits the surface. Well, explain the floating flasher, because people aren't going to know, trust me, people will not know what the hell you're talking about. Like, three people will. Imagine a float that looks like a chicken. It does.

Right, it does. And that's filled with foam. So your chicken's filled with foam. It's got fishing line on it, and hanging from that fishing line are some flashers well it looks like a bunch of fishing lures looks like a little spinner uh spinner bait blades oh yeah exactly and on the bottom some like yeah what's that thing that we we put on the line behind the banana when we're fishing the silver called a flasher oh yeah it's called a flasher

dodgers and flashers yeah and we like to put a squid on the bottom for decoration to hide the weight oh that's what he's down there for yeah okay and you got a pom pom on the bottom of yours yeah mine's a mine looks like a miniature bait ball from far away okay it does look really good yeah it's a teaser that slays them it also does really well on my engine prop, doesn't it, Captain George? Slaying them. So you go out and hang this thing in the water. And we float with it. Yeah, like riding the current. Riding the current, relaxing, and looking for signs.

You're just hovering over this suspended string of Christmas ornaments hanging off. They're suspended vertically at about 25, 30 feet, depending on the visibility. Oh, yeah. We should talk about that. We put it at a certain height on purpose. Depends on what you can see, right? On the vis and where we think those fish are going to be. We didn't tell you, but there was a thermocline at about 30, 35 feet.

We wanted to stay above that thermocline and we wanted to stay above that thermocline for a couple reasons number one we didn't want to spook all of our bait our bait were great you see how happy they were oh very calm tens of hundreds of thousands of tuna crabs uh-huh the tuna crabs and i'm talking about yeah and then the bait bait and then the bait bait. And then the bait bait. They were happy. They were relaxed. If we kept making repetitive dives underneath them and coming back up, they would get agitated and... Disperse. And disperse, and they would mess up our whole mojo there.

So we stayed on top of it, above all that. And that's really good. So we've got our hanging flasher, and then we utilize a throw flasher, which is, again, our little fishing lure. But we throw it, and then it floats down. And it reflects very slowly. Like one foot, two foot, three feet, right? And it goes down and it shines. And then we dive down and we get it. We pick it up and we look up, down, left, right, and then in they come. Now the art of blue water hunting is being able to see your fish incoming and being prepared for them. Really good blue water hunters can start to pick out changes in the color of the water before the fish actually get there. So we see dark shadows.

And that allows us to be a little, we can make an adjustment so we can cut an angle a little better and because this thing is not going to be stopping no and they're moving fast they blast through yeah so in our blue water we got yellowtail and a bonito the yellowtail was in a school i think he had a group the yellowtail i saw had a. I think he had a group, the yellowtail I saw had a group of 20 other fish with them. Bonita. No, the yellowtail. You saw a school of 20 yellowtail?

Yep. Oh. Did you too? No, mine, which I'll get to, trust me, it was a two pack. Yeah. And they were lost. No, I'm just wondering where was I when you saw the...

I didn't hear about this 20-pack of yellowtail. It was right at dusk last night. It was what we were doing last night at dusk. Oh, okay. With the ghosts of the evil people swimming around in the ocean. Got it. Yeah, we had multiple schools come through. The first school that came through, came through so fast,

there was nothing that I could do about it. I just let it be. Came back to the surface. Re-threw my flasher, relaxed, flasher went down, I went back down, then that school came back around and I took that first fish. Haul them back to the boat. Got him up quickly, threw him in the boat, and went back out. When I was rebanding my gun, I threw my flasher, and the school came back around, but this time twice as fast. They were smoking through the water. Fast, fast. And I couldn't get my gun loaded fast enough. So they did their deal.

And then enough so they did they did their deal and then we continued to stay in front of the bait right the bait kind of created like a vertical wall and that was where the two currents were merging and it's a beautiful thing when that happens he shot that tasty little... Oh, that little bonito. Yep. And he comes hauling ass through. Man, that was a school of three, four. Came in super quick.

I was on the surface. I just rolled the shoulder and let the spear fly. Didn't, no aim. No, there's no time for any of that. It's purely instinctual. Sliced him right through the gut. And fortunately, the spear went all the way through and they go so berserk that he just wrapped himself up and I pulled him up plus he was what 18 inches long and we ate him in a bath of soy

sauce and tapatio tapatio with some jalapeno soaked in lime juice so good no dude that was good the yellowtail now i'll tell you my i'll revel you with my uh or you can uh i'll tell you my yellowtail story we were they said they were lost up against the cliff in how many feet of water uh i'd say 15 to 20 was right in range but most like your fish was laying in about 15 feet yeah i was a whole hunt yeah yeah you were whole on ground impact and i look and with a 90 centimeter gun yeah and i look and i'm like and they come past me and i'm like you gotta be shitting me and uh they're big like well how big was the one i got he was about 15 i'd say in that 15-ish range.

He comes past. I'm thinking closer to 30 pounds. Big freaking yellow tail, man. He's got like a sickle on his tail. And they come past. And I turn, and they go out of view. And I'm thinking to myself, I have never in my life caught up with a fish. And I almost was like, eh, never mind.

But then I'm like, yeah, i'll try to go over their direction so i start swimming and catch up with them something must have distracted them or something and they cut left and i shot the one boom your mentor was right there back you up no i couldn't find my mentor had my mentor been nearby um the rest of us heard someone screaming had my mentor been nearby. The rest of us heard someone screaming. Had my mentor not done what he had done to me earlier when I was drowning, which is not be around. In this case, my mentor's lack of attentiveness cost him a fish. I did put you on that line, though.

I said, swim in front of me. Yes, you did. Because the other yellowtail in the two-pack this is really startling to me it was like if you guys ever hunted Canada geese for a double will come over and you'll hit one of the geese and sometimes you'll get like three or four pass throughs by the other goose because they mate for life or to put it in they it's a little bit more complicated or let's say someone were to uh shoot a yearling deer let's just say and or let's say someone were to shoot a doe with a yearling deer and then

watch the the yearling one could imagine how it might hang around for a while the fish that his buddy is just like cutting cookies around me yeah and at one point in time i'm not joking it passed 18 inches in front of my face and i'm thinking man a good mentor would be would have just shots like could put a box of speargun darts into this thing. It was nowhere to be found. You should feel pretty lucky about that experience. Because it's pretty insane special.

The second it happened, I knew that it was special. When trying to hail some help to get the other fish. That's what I was originally after. He'd get the other fish. And then wanting him to not pull off the spear yeah the whole thing but once i finally got my mitt on him you were feeling good dude it was really cool yeah to get a big fish that's good raw is that doesn't happen to a freshwater person no yeah a big fish that i have been

ordering the flesh of for the past 25 years no when did i start eating like when did i start having like to wear with all to go to a sushi restaurant i've been eating the flesh of for 20 years 15 years and sushi joints and to have that son of a bitch in my hand by the gill cover or by the throat. You're mine. Yeah. Greg showed me a special way where you grab them like up in. Oh, the paralyzer.

Yeah. Squeeze. You get them like your hand is, you got your thumb in one through the gills on one side, your four fingers through the gills on the other side and you're holding his his comma his hamachi comma his throat and then I was like I cannot believe I got this fish at that point which is about 20 minutes after I shot and he did everything right he took the time bled it then we did all that later yeah and then after

bleeding it gutted it and then right on ice and it was good the perfect pathway to your plate yeah I need to tell one year tell a fishing story I only got one well no well it's one long one because I shot two only recovered one cheap said but my mentor stuck with me the whole time right there yeah yeah you're like a like a dog in heel him being the owner yeah maybe no chips were down when you needed them yeah he's like come over here I got a fish for you right here i had to kind of follow if i wanted to spend time i meant to i had to kind of follow him around i'm a lazy and i go over there and this is the kind of spear fishing i like because you just i'm at the surface going

and i look down and i can see there's like a calico bass two sheaves said and he's like shoot the sheaves said i'm like i don't know which is. The one with the stripe on it and the big lip. I'm like, oh, I can see him from here. So I swim down, shoot him. How far did you dive? Blasted. 60? I don't know.

Alec's allowed to answer that question. 15 to 20. You were getting that deep? And shot him. Easily. And it just went through like the tops of his shoulders and it didn't stick. You know, like the hole blew out the top.

Yeah. But Alex watched him swim over. He immediately like goes in the direction the fish swam and he waves me over and the fish is going into a crack. And he's like, all right, now you got to swim down and get in that crack. You'll see him in there. It's dark, but you'll see his silhouette and shoot him again. I'm like, yeah, right. That ain't going to happen.

So I take like another two minutes. Swim down to the crack. And as soon as I get to the crack, I can just kind of look underneath it. I'm like, I got to go up. And I go up. So I never even looked into the crack, really. Alex went down. Did you see him again?

I did. I did. But then he squirted out. Yeah, we had lobster in there. There were urchins in there. It was a mess inside that hole. We caught a fish, a sheep said today, that had that dart hole on the top that already healed over.

Oh, yeah. And then someone in our party shot a sheep's head that also had two feet of leader coming out of his mouth and a hook in his tongue. Did you see that? Yeah, that was calico, I thought, wasn't it? Oh, was that what it was? Yeah, yeah, you're right.

It was a calico. But I forget who shot the one that had the he had a rusty hook and a hunk of mono coming out of him yeah no that wasn't mine you didn't shoot that well the fishing line coming out of it no it must have been your mentor he likes he likes uh fish that are hurt i attract sick fish you might not want to eat your yellow tail so we didn't swim much farther. Nope. We might have swam another minute or two. We just reset. And there was another

sheepshead. So I think I actually went down on that one and I didn't get a shot the first time I was down. He just kind of squirted behind some kelp so I came up. Got what do you guys call it? Rested?

Recovered. Recovered. Went down again, set up, almost had a shot, didn't get a shot, and I just waited, and he just swam right back around, turned around and gave me a nice, I don't know. He couldn't have been five feet. He wasn't as far away from the tip as the gun is long, that's for sure. It was beautiful because I watched it from the surface and when he went down in my head i'm sending him the vibe be patient because he went down and it looked like

he just was going to go full speed and in my head i'm going just be patient be patient because the fish they don't like pointing things at him and then he stopped and he was patient and that two seconds of patient the fish just put on the brakes turned sideways gave him the perfect shot pinned him to the bottom of the ocean this really fish went shot went through the shoulder, right out the brain, stoned. Perfect. Yanked him out of the bottom. No, I swam up to the top and then yanked him out of the bottom. You're out of breath.

Yeah. Yeah. That was your, that was your, that was it? That was my first kill. Yeah. But you got more than after that, didn't you? Nope. Just one fish man. Yeah. was your that was it that was my first kill yeah but you got more than after that damn nope just one fish man yeah you know we hit we hit a sweet spot when you guys left us and we decided

to peel in and stop at another hole and uh i had sheep said like i could have shot from the surface and i was almost like well this isn't right i I'm supposed to be diving down. So I let them pass. And then I think I actually saw later, once I realized what the calico is, it's like green with white spots on its back. Once I had figured that out, I was looking back in my memory going, oh, I've seen those fish and I've not been shooting them. I just kept looking for something bigger.

What saved a lot of those things was- I saw the day that we were sea bass hunting, I think I saw one. And it was a giant fish. So I kept looking for like... This is true. This big stuff where I should have been shooting the 15-inchers. Yeah, that's what saves a lot of calico bass lives

is my inability to accurately judge them. That is an art. It's hard. Because a lot a lot of them I'm like I don't know buddy I'm gonna let you slide but you know first kill and I was clearing my ears last two dives I did today I just felt like it was just constant

just coming out of my ears the whole time as I was going to the bottom the clear never stopped as I went down you know clearing up it's clear storm so I got that feeling good about it got a fish it's pretty successful trip so you feel like you're an aspiring for sure I would like to do it some more do you feel you wasted your. See, that's what I'm struggling with is that I wasted my life. I used to think that being like a mountain hunter, like I used to think that being a mountain hunter

was interesting. I still do. Yeah. Not as interesting as spearfishing. No. It's a good challenge, man. That's what's great about it it really is like the thing i like about mountain hunting is that uh a lot of things about it one thing i

like about mountain hunting listen to this though i got an idea if you if you took your mountain hunting to like some but see it's not necessary to do. But let's just say you had to somehow incorporate like climbing big walls, climbing up big walls where you could fall off and die. And then you had to shoot the mountain goat. That would be a little more like this. What I liked about mountain hunting, there's three things I know about.

Spear fishing being the new one, riding a bike in Manhattan, and mountain hunting are three things where there's just no, I'm not saying for everybody. It's three things where I just think about what I'm doing. I'm just thinking about there's enough stuff going on like topography, weather, bears, what you know about animals, right?

The burning of time. It's like I just, I do those things and I just do that and then my mind's not doing anything else. And it's very soothing. It's just like I'm just doing that. Yep. and it's very soothing which is I'm just doing that yep I'm not like I'm not engaged in any other bullshit in my head I'm not like oh man I should call my mom more often you know I mean I'm just like doing the thing um and that's why I like mountain hunting riding your bike in manhattan is too dangerous but I enjoy it

but uh and then now spearf dangerous, but I enjoy it. And then now spearfishing, man. But I think that I kind of like the food from spearfishing. I don't know. Dare I say, I almost kind of like it better. Than eating venison. Than eating stuff you get mountain hunting. Because you know what?

A lot of that stuff is pretty damn similar. Yeah. You don't really acquire dude you don't acquire any food biking in manhattan unless you stop at joe's pizza no you stop and get them water dogs out of the tanks of hot water the guys with the little trucks or little carts are selling but no discard that one i'm just saying that's one where there's no room to think about other stuff yeah but uh i kind of like the food from this there is food from this is pretty spectacular and you guys resp yeah that's another thing i wanted to ask you before we wrap up here um do you guys find like in hunting there's a lot of

people that don't they hunt and you think like hunting's like a way to like get food historically right it's how we kind of got into the whole activity as folks. But there's a lot of people that like to hunt, but they don't really give a shit about the, they don't really give a shit about the food. You know, in your community, are there a lot of people who are like big time spear fishermen that don't

really take care of their fish and, and like eat it and give it away? Or is it most people pretty respectful of the resource? I'd say, I'd say they're very, like if we go on a, on a big trip with several guys and there's a couple guys that don't get a fish, they're like right there, hey, you know, and like wanting fish. I mean, everyone wants fish.

Everyone takes care of their fish. So do you feel that you guys are typical or atypical in that you're always making all kinds of like preparations with the fish and eating it this way and this one's good to eat that way i mean and like this one's for this this is great for tempura this is great to eat raw this is great to broil this is great to grill they've all got you guys have a lot of your bodies have that kind of way about them yeah Yeah, definitely. Just in how they're cooked, how they're prepared. Eating them fresh as in raw, you know, just a little quick freeze on them. Or any seasonings like, or the spices, sauces that we made today when we're just on the filet table.

You know, as we're cutting them. You know, you were ripping, you were rubbing the ribs with a spoon and we had the sauce right there and just eat it yeah and it was just good fresh you're good cook man you're like a good cook like a good like working man's high level cook well i appreciate that do you know i mean i hope so i try no it's like approachable like simple just really good stuff that's good yeah do we eat good dude yeah i'm a yachtsman 100 yachtsman i think the community as a whole understands that the catch is only half. Truly.

Truly. I don't think you'd go into any community and run into someone that's actually going after game fish, pelagic fish, and already not thinking about how am I going to get this iced? How am I going to get it home? How am I going to get it home? How am I going to get it prepped? What is it for? I think the community as a whole is solid when it comes to that.

That's the thing with spearfishing, you're targeting a lot of the most high quality sought after fish. I know why you like spearfishing. Because all the, I mean, I like, well, I like, like what I talked about, the adventure of it. Yeah, but you missed one major point.

What's that? It is a shit talking? It is a, oh yeah, there's a little shit talking that goes down. There's a little jar that goes down. But it's a target-rich environment. You have a lot of choices. And that, when we talk to our new spear fishermen, that's really the biggest thing,

is you're going to see a lot. You guys pass up a lot of stuff. We pass up hundreds, if not thousands, to select one or two or three or four that are what we specifically want that's the thing i noticed about you guys i'm kind of like let's shoot them all you know let's go let's go but you guys are kind of like just it's letting them go yeah soak in the scenery enjoy it and then turn on the hunt when you need to turn it on because something may scoot out into a hole and now it's scenery's done now it's go time that's the fish we want how am i gonna get to him without

him running you know that's target rich environment yeah you didn't think we shot a lot either until you started cleaning fish in that cooler back there no there's a handful in there but no you guys you guys let a lot of fish slide yeah yeah that's the best part my buddy george here says yeah it's like bow hunting only you've got targets all day long yeah like you're saying otherwise you work all season for a shot but i get 10 shots a day yeah yeah it's true yeah no i like it man'm going to start plotting out my next outing. I'm thinking Baja. See, that's where I mess around.

That's where I like. He dabbles in Baja, right? I dabble. No, I dabble. We go down there on family vacation, but when I go on family vacation, I always go somewhere where I can fish, and now we go somewhere where I can go dabble. Where I can dabble.

How'd you like the ocean whitefish here? Great. Just does rod and reeling, though. Good. I haven't eaten them yet. I like cleaning them. They flay nice. Yeah, they do.

I like catching them. That's going to be your favorite. You think so? It's that good? Look like a nice filet. Why are you laughing? That's the best fish out here. You can't compare it to yellowtail or binaural.

I mean, those are palatine. We're not talking palatine. We're talking reef fish, ocean whitefish. Are you doing that because George doesn't want people to know about them? It's our secret. Oh. There's only one guarantee spot too yeah um okay final thoughts i mean i could go i we i this could be like a 10 part series on spearfishing but i don't want to

bore everyone i love it's really really interesting to me man wasted my life yeah i i agree i think looking through binoculars yeah you agree that wasted my life yeah i think looking through binoculars you agree that I wasted my life I think looking through a pair of binoculars for an antler that you're trying to pick out in shrub brush is cool but imagine trying to pick out all these fish when they're cruising through the kelp

same thing only you're a lot closer with a lot more opportunity don't have to hike as far you have to swim a lot closer with a lot more opportunity. Don't have to hike as far. And you really, yeah. You have to swim a lot, though. Yeah, we covered a long way. Listen, you guys don't realize it because you're just used to it. It is extremely demanding.

Extremely demanding. Long day of spearfishing. You sleep really well. What was your average time between putting your head on your pillow and being gone? Like, no, I was wiped out. In three nights. It's really demanding. And then other stuff time between putting your head on your pillow and being gone? No, I was wiped out. In three nights. It's really demanding. And then other stuff that you don't even think about. You're kind of drifting with the current or whatever

and you look and that boat is like a million miles away and you start kicking through the kelp and you look a while later and it's like that scene in Monty Python where the dude's running at him. The dude's running at him but the boat keeps getting farther away. And you're like, what? so i would get around i think i'd turn over my back so i couldn't even see the damn boat and i'd kind of get a bearing and just go and i'll be like

i'll allow myself to look in 10 minutes i noticed a couple times yeah i was wondering what he was doing yeah i noticed a couple times when i drove up and you actually gave me the way some people give me the nice wave like hey i'm here cool i'm gonna head on your you actually gave me the way some people give me the nice wave like hey I'm here cool I'm gonna head on your way you gave me the like come here motherfucker like yeah right right here right now because I octopus had stripped me of my snorkel and his mentor was nowhere to be found all right you got any final thoughts? Alex? Yeah, I'll finish off our little final thought process here is that you got to experience the first of the first, which is the stepping stone to an un...

It's a universe of chasing fish that can take you around this entire globe and you'll meet 75 of this son of a bitch is covered in water and you'll meet some of the best people and you'll go to some of the most amazing places and you'll uh pick up some of the best cooking and recipes from different cultures and just the regular guy that's flaying your fish and it's pretty special so I'm stoked to have you in our spearfishing culture thank you man that's it like one of our buddies JP said to it's not all about the fish you know the same thing around a hunt camp or anything you get get a group of guys

common interest doing something that you can get outdoors you know see see nature see the splendor out there and go get some great get outdoors, you know, see nature, see the splendor out there, and go get some great table fare. Yeah. You know, it's awesome. Yeah, it's like a real team component to it too, you know. Yeah, there's not too many sports.

Working through a bunch of problems. You could put, you know, five, six guys on a boat for three days, and I mean, I don't think we had one. That was pretty entertaining the whole time. Well, you did break a very important part on my boat. Let's see, I broke about 10 things. George hasn't found two of them. We're not going to talk about it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to

blame it on Yanni after they leave here. You recovered two anchors. I got your anchor. Some other dude's aluminum anchor which you found. Store credit. I found it. I recovered it. You found it. I recovered it. I spotted it and pondered it and thought about damn that anchor is down deep

any concluders uh you're welcome anytime i think this is the start of your journey i think uh you have a good intro into it anyone that's looking to get in the sport just remember do a little homework first try to find a mentor. At least do some research on the internet and talk to someone that's done it. There are some risks to it, but at the end of the day, it's a very amazing sport. Are people in your community going to be annoyed that you're letting, that by now, by taking out a couple couple loud mouths that you're like ruining the whole thing because now every time dick and harry's gonna pick up a spear gun i think i think the

sport itself will weed out a percentage of those people okay as you saw today um i mean to tell you truth the u.s in the world and when you talk about New Zealand, Australia, Europe, South Africa, the U.S. is pretty far behind population-wise of spearfisher women, spearfishing in general. I don't know. We'll find out, I guess. It's a growing community anyway.

It is a very slowly growing sport, consistently growing. I know a lot of guys that are into mountain hunting yeah that are real curious about spearfishing yeah i mean it's we all kind of like make each other curious about it but yeah don't you think yanni it's like a general just like around the guys we hang out with we kind of like talk about spearfishing more now than we might have once upon time but that's true yeah oh rob jeremy, and Sergio want you to come to South Africa.

Really? Yeah. This might be my end of South Africa. All you have to do is pack a bag. All the gear there is waiting. Rifles, whatever you want. That's Rob from Rob Allen's for your fishing. Rob from Rob Allen, Jeremy Williams, and Sergio Campos.

Wow. Is it worth it? Is it better than coming back here? It's good. It's pretty good. But is it better in here? It's different. Is it worth it? Is it better than coming back here? It's good. It's pretty good. But is it better in here? It's different. Is it better in California?

It's different. Different fish. That's the thing about spearfishing. Different set of fish. Yeah, you can drive two hours from here and it's totally different. Yeah. Plug your company again? Oh, you guys didn't talk about Ultimate Spearfishing at all.

Oh, Ultimate Spearfishing. Yeah. Ultimate Spearfishing is a new project. It was a magazine out of South Africa and we're're relaunching it on the website is the website live it is live it's being updated continually but yeah it's it's got quite a bit information about basic skills and spearfishing i was originally um like i said based out of south africa and south african divers as a whole are some of the best and most hardcore divers out there. So yeah, there's a lot of good information on there. And you're bringing it digital.

Bringing it digital. There's a lot of the print articles online now. Then we're kind of updating it with new contribution kind of throughout the monster. Ultimate Spearfishing. Ultimate Spearfishing.com. And then your outfit's called what again? FreediveShot.com.

And yeah, we do both Rob Allen Spearfishing gear ocean hunter and meister carbon fins so that and people just from around the country buy at mail order too yeah we're i mean we're we're mostly a wholesale company but yeah we do we do have a retail outlet in northern california and that was mostly to address kind of the the local spearfishing community and people can call you up and be like, oh, my thing doesn't work. Thing doesn't work. Yep. We're good at fixing stuff. Good at troubleshooting.

Good to kind of basic tips on where to go. I've dove quite a few places in my lifetime so far. So, yeah, I know a lot of people kind of throughout the world and throughout the community. If you're traveling somewhere, I can kind of point you in the right direction or give you some pointers all right greg fonts greg fonts george i don't even know your damn last name shite oh yeah i just know george not yours that's right

love it it's okay you're welcome back into time, whether you know my last name or not. All right. Alex. Ryan. Rayno. Rayno. Very French. Thank you.

All right, guys. Thank you very much. Thank you. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season.

Now, the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet.