The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 192: Bleeding Out

Episode Date: October 28, 2019

Steven Rinella talks with Dr. Alan Lazzara, Ryan Callaghan, Brody Henderson, and the spirit of Janis Putelis.                Subjects discussed: On missing Jani; the piranha of the north; the cadaver bone in Steve's mouth; is it really ok to use super glue to patch yourself up?; treestand falls and opening your scro on a hook; living to hunt another day; how to apply tourniquets; chainsaw injuries; outdoor medical kits; how to save your friends from dumb hunting accidents; and more.  Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google Play Store. Know where you stand with OnX. Cal, your hat is almost not even on. Well, I had to jack it up because I didn't get these earphones on. That's what's going on there? Looks like you got a shop rag on top of your head.

Yeah. I have no hair. Here's one. We're going to get into medical. We have a special doctor. Would you call yourself a special doctor? No, I would say I'm an emergency medicine physician, but you can, my mom thinks I'm special. We're going to talk about one thing, then we're going to get into things that are medical-ish, because we have a doctor with us. Yes, sir.

Introduce yourself real quick. My name is Alan Lazara, and I am an emergency medicine physician from Michigan. I work in Jackson, Michigan at Henry Ford Allegiance Health and live part of my life in Michigan, then mostly in Chicago, and then now back in Michigan. I think of you as, I've begun to think of you as our resident doctor because you write in a lot of times with really good medical information. That is a huge honor and nod. And all I can say is you guys produce so much excellent material that I'm just honored to be able to have a small saying in this situation. Great. Did you take ethics when you were in med school?

So it's built in. We have, in med school, I went to Loyola in Maywood, Illinois, which I think is the best medical school in the country for sure. Cause I just, it was the best educational experience that I had in my career. And we talked about patient-centered medicine. And part of that was learning how to communicate with people, both emotionally and through difficult situations and how to deliver bad news and stuff like that. And ethics was built into that. Good, because here's an ethics conundrum. Okay. Okay.

I got to say that being an ER doctor, sometimes you're riding the line on on ethical situations all the time so yeah well you can stay silent on this one you can weigh in okay dude writes in this is complicated because it involves a buck with three antlers but he doesn't like acknowledge how unusual a three antlered buck is okay it involves a buck with three antlers. Guy in Virginia has a bunch of brothers. Okay. One of the brothers hunting in Virginia

shoots a three antlered buck. Okay. Talking about three points? Talking about like two on one side and one on... No, man, it's got... Well, Brody just sent me a photo of a three antlered elk.

Like a unicorn and a deer put together. Yeah. Three bases. Okay. Two on one, two separate... Well, it's like a unicorn and a deer put together three bases okay two on one two separate well it's like a triceratops yeah yeah there you are a unicorn and a deer yeah combo had intercourse shoots a shoots a three antlered buck um it falls over he thinks his

daddy runs up and then uh he gets starts getting set up to take a photo of it. And it gets up and runs off. Scary situation. It happened to Yanni once. Gets up and runs off. Tries trailing. It can't find the thing anywhere. Month goes by.

On Christmas day, his brother. So the hunters, there's this collection of brothers and some, several of them play into the story. Christmas day, his brother is out in the cattle field and finds a recently dead buck it has at this point shed it's two antlers okay but one of the third antler is still on the deer And that's how they're able to be. That's how they're able to ascertain.

Hey, that's the buck that my brother killed. But when he killed it, it had three and it naturally shed. So it has clean pedicles where two of the three antlers have fallen off.

It's all mauled up, been getting fed on by coyotes but they can find a wound mark on the neck even though the hide is you know in rough shape then the hunt is on for the antlers so you got now you got the brother that shot it you got the brother that finds the dead carcass with the one antler. So he's got a skull of the antler sticking out of it. This is getting biblical, I feel like. Yeah, it is.

Or it's like three brothers. Yeah. So the other brother is like a real antler hound, he explains. And this brother manages to go out and find the shed antlers. Okay. Now there's a custody battle where the brother that shot it and lost it is making the thing that it's all his. Yeah. So we have a rule in our families that we,

I have three children who I love very much. We have a rule that if a toy is not being played with at that time, it is not yours. with at that time, it is not yours. So it is community property. So I would say since he was not handling it at that time, the person who found it, it's theirs. I think that everybody keeps what they found.

Exactly. The guy that like winged it? Yeah. Dude. He lost it. It's like you're not even in the conversation. Yeah, you've got no claim to that thing at that point. No way.

The fact that he thinks he gets it all. I guarantee that's the older brother, right, that did that. He doesn't get into who's oldest and who's youngest. That's an older brother kind of statement. That's mine. Yeah, I don't think the guy, I think everybody just keeps what, the guy that found the antlers found the antlers are his now there's like what should then there's plenty of room in here for people to just be nice and whatever but we're not talking about that i i think there's like in like uh like you know the meat eater court i would say legally everybody just keeps

what they have if you guys want to be like all nice and cool and everything and give other people stuff or whatever that's nothing to do with what should happen that's just you being a nice guy yeah what about that cal man i got this story about a dude who left a bunch of firewood on my deck oh this is that's a good story. Yeah, I was there that day. Tell that story. Oh, yeah. So I got this place in Ketchum and there was a guy renting it prior to me and the real estate agent's like,

yeah, guy wants to know if he can leave his firewood on the deck for two weeks. and being as i knew that there's a lot of work to be done on the place and i didn't want this guy to be all spiteful um i was like yeah no problem two weeks that's great but let him know that i'm gonna be like tearing that deck apart because it was about to fall off anyway um which I took me forever to get around to about three and a half years to be exact.

But, but that was the deal. Two weeks. Well, like a year later. Now that's, that's an exaggeration. It takes, that was in June, the end of October. Yep. The very end of October, the guy shows up and he's like, yeah, I want to talk to you about my wood. And I was like, yeah, man, that ship sailed.

And I had already cut a bunch of firewood. And moved the whole pile and move the entire pile um at the request of the hoa who was like yeah so sorry the guy who was a renter we kept asking him to move this thing he never did do you think you could you know start fresh and move the i was like yeah um And yeah, that's like the. Didn't he then try to get you to pay him for it? I remember you guys were having a little argument and I was standing out talking to someone in your driveway. Yeah, that was a real comfortable situation. So he's like, whoa, you need to pay me for that wood then.

I was like, great. You need to pay me for the eight loads of your crap I had to take to the dump from the house. Eight truck and four-wheeler, like an eight foot by six foot wide four-wheeler trailer. Eight loads. Truck and trailer combo

to the dump. I'm sure that was really friendly. Before I could even sleep in the place. Had you run any of his wood through your stove yet? No. It's odd how he showed up right about the time it gets cold and any of that wood. Yeah. But yeah, so it's like when, in my mind, his claim to that wood left somewhere around the first load of stuff to the dump and well beyond the two-week mark.

His dream of getting his wood back must have been a pretty fragile dream because he never came back and pursued it anymore, did he? I think he just kind of gave it a Hail Mary. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was not. It wasn't great, but in regards to, hey, I remember those antlers. Thanks for spending the day out there looking for antlers and picking them up. I'll take those back now. That doesn't really stack up with me either. Maybe that guy didn't come back because he was intimidated by your mustache and how masculine you are. I, um, I didn't get that sense from him no no i think he just walks around in the middle of the day a little bit drunk

is the sense i got um we're talking about a guy wrote in about getting his nipple bit by a blue gill and bleeding all over and i said man this guy doesn't know one fish from the other. And I thought he got bit by a Northie, a Northern, that was hunting bluegills. This guy from Oregon said, man, he's telling me, you don't know what you're talking about. He says he was swimming, seven years ago, he was swimming in a small pond in Oregon, and the only fish in the pond was bluegills.

A stocked pond. Says he got bit on the nipple by bluegill he said it felt like getting bit by a rottweiler drew a lot of blood so they do have a very small roll of teeth so that they can eat human nipples he says it's the prana of the north it's a very sensitive tissue area. Yeah, it must be. Did you see somebody's been releasing piranha, probably aquarium piranha that just got too big for them to handle? The second one found in the same lake in BC that somebody caught.

No. But like full on. But they're not going to winter up there, are they? That's what the biologist said is like listen they're gonna die this winter but that doesn't mean go releasing piranha into a lake yeah yeah they're good to eat man really dude they're really good yeah red piranha black piranha like a perch no it's like a you know it's like a lot of those fish down there it has like you know it's like a like a, you know, it's like a lot of those fish down there.

It has like, you know, it's like a, like a firm white ocean fish type flesh on piranha. Very good. Nice. And they got like, and they split their head, you know, you split their head and cook them. Yeah. I ate them in, uh, one time in Argentina, then

I ate them in Bolivia and Guyana. Nice. Yeah. They take them in, like you cut a flay off, then you tip the fish on his nose. And so you got like, not a flay, but it's like a fish on the half shell split all the way through his head. Cause there's, they got the real meaty head with big cheeks in it. And being as you were in these awesome situations, do you think that piranha would be just as tasty here in bozeman montana oh yeah you do really sure man okay very good you know they like the black piranha the most because they're big

you know you get like three four or five pound black piranha wow yeah biggins um did you talk about this lady that bit a camel on the testicles i skipped that one it's an interesting story where there's like a woman from florida florida woman and her and her old man stop at a wildlife like a truck stop wildlife truck stop in louisiana and somehow or another like they throw a dog treat in there for the animals but their dog sees him throw a dog treat he went after it and he runs in there and gets into a scuffle

so then they run in there even though there's a sign saying don't run in there they run in there and get into a scuffle with a camel and she bites him on the sack

the cops get involved in this and she bites him on the sack. The cops get involved in this. They said the camel's not at fault. I don't understand how that was the first available part to bite. It's sad on her. Yeah, how did she get? She somehow got under it, and it's sad on her. Uh-oh. This is medical.

This is sort of medical. Sure. You'll see the connection. Guy asks, let's say you go hunting, and you're in a CWD area, and you shoot a buck. And you're like, I'm not going to eat that buck. Is it still okay to get it mounted? So, I don't know. He doesn't mean safety-wise.

Oh. Like, oh, that he would get, contract the WD from having it in his house. That's not his concern. Oh. He never thought about it, but his kids said, if we can't, like, eat it,

and it's, like, got a sickness, why would we get it stuffed? Because it doesn't seem like... I get what he's saying. So, the main tissue so i thought about this no no it's not a safety issue not a safety issue he's not proposing it as a safety issue can he still put it on the wall and be proud of it yeah oh he never says i never connected taxidermy to consumption but now a 13 year old has me all twisted up about this

i don't think i'd mount the animal if I couldn't eat it. This is him talking European mount. And I would absolutely do the European mount. And I'd point at it when people came over and I'd be like, see that. So, and I'd be like that deer had CWD. So the only problem with that and not to bring it to the safety issue,

but when I've done my own European mounts, it involves boiling the head. And then I use a power sprayer to basically spray the brains out after they've been all liquefied. And I've been on my sidewalk in Ann Arbor with people walking their dogs by and a skull on the sidewalk. But you're spraying brain all over the place, right? And so that's the number one tissue. It's a brain, spinal cord, lymph nodes, and bone or bone marrow. So if you're making a European mount on a animal that has known CWD, you're getting probably some of the highest exposure you could as far as particles flying around.

And obviously there's no human cases that have been documented, but if that was, if that was me, I would would not want i would not be power spraying that thing in my house i would probably just discard the animal unfortunately you know the power spraying thing's interesting because a buddy of mine over in whitehall montana just texted me the other day curious about that same thing sure because he had he was gonna go hunt in the area he was going to hunt area where there's been some cwd cases and he was like even besides the meat and everything man like what about when when i have my kid go out and clean the skull yeah he's like he's just saying i don't know if i want anything to do with that stuff well you have the animal tested and the scary thing is from the

other podcast you guys have talked about that d Dern talked about where they will test animals, they say it's a non-positive test, which to me, I really like things when they're certain kind of zero or one. And a non-positive is kind of a soft way of saying, yeah, it's okay. We're not super sure. It doesn't look like it's positive now. So that would make me real uncomfortable if you're hunting in a high prevalence area, you know, even in dealing with that kind of meat. You know, if you're hunting in southeast Wisconsin, that would be very, very. So give me an example of this.

Is this like you turn in a lymph node and they're like, yes, there are no CWD prions in this lymph node. Correct. But wish we would have got a piece of the brain. I'm not a biologist. I can't say for certain. But from what I remember hearing, they just give you a non-positive result, meaning that they don't see anything now.

Because they say that the deer can be asymptomatic for up to two years. Yeah, you could shoot a forky and two years later, it's not positive. Right. So, um, the cases of prion illness that we've seen in hospital are the highest rate of transmission are to neurosurgeons because they're dealing with brain tissue. So if the neurosurgeons, um, if there's a, uh, you know, middle-aged lady who comes in with this kind of Alzheimer's type weird acute decline, and they're concerned about CWD or not CWD, but Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, right? Which is a prion human transmission, a human variation of these spongiform encephalopathies. The hospitalist,

the people managing the care will want a biopsy of the brain to send a pathology and see if there's prions in it or characteristics as such. And they are very reluctant to want to do that. It's a nightmare for them. They don't want to do that if they can do it a different way. So they'll do an EEG, which is like an EKG for your brain to check if you have certain patterns. So it's a non-invasive way of testing for that. But point of story is that people who are operating on people's brains, who might have these kinds of illnesses are, are not, not super psyched about doing it because they're sawing through bone, dust is getting into the air. And so they are concerned about that.

You gotta get dressed up like you're working on Ebola patients. I don't know. I never sat in on a neurosurgery myself. You get to select what kind of rotations you do. I did more trauma surgery stuff. But yeah, I think they have like positive pressure ventilation that they're using. So they're not breathing that air. I would imagine so.

That's what I would want. I've been looking for a good segue to talk about my tooth. I damn near had brain surgery the other day because my tooth is like five inches from my brain. Yeah. Yeah, I got a super sore tooth and I had cracked the root. And they dug the – you already heard about this. Did this just happen all of a sudden? I went cracked the root. And they dug the, you already heard about this, but. Did this just happen all of a sudden? Because you were on a hunt.

I went to bite something. Yeah. I went to bite something and about sent me through the roof. Anyway, they're going, I got a cracked root. And so they pry the whole tooth out of my head. And then they take pliers and pull all three of the root stems out. And then they pack it with cadaver bone they show me a little bottle yeah some dudes ground up bone and i asked him and everybody must ask this question

i asked him like what can you tell me about whose bone it is they're like we don't have information on them don't know if he had cwd but then i had someone else tell me you can find out i don't know they said you can find out really yeah then I had someone else tell me you can find out. I don't know. They said you can find out. Really? Yeah. I'd like to go over to the house. That would be great.

Talk to his kid. Be like, if you listen closely. Recognize something? Up in my jaw. They pack it full of cadaver bone, powdered cadaver bone, because somehow it affects what your body does with that area, whether or not it fills it with bone or whether or not it like fills it with bone or whether or not it fills it with soft tissue the space they want to grow back bone

but the thing is it's granular and so at any right now in this moment at any given time i could work up from under my tongue or on my tongue or whatever, a little, like a large piece of sand, and spit it out, and it's a hunk of that dude's bone. Unbelievable. I had three of them this morning when I woke up. No. Yep.

Yep. Wow. I've been showing everyone who wants to look. Really? I'll show you one, Brody. Oh, yeah. A little chunk of that guy's bone. You swallowed some of them, too. Oh, I've been eating them.

Yeah. I even crunched some of them up. Unbelievable. I crunched them up with my front teeth. I just don't like the fact that this, I guess, A, I really dislike the fact that this happened on a hunt, so you just started chewing on the other side of your mouth. Yeah, but even then man it got worse and worse and worse and worse till i was no longer having fun if it had happened at the

beginning of that hunt i'd have been screwed but i mean it got to be like really painful wow but man the cadaver so your body is it a reaction from your body like being like this is foreign material and we got to build something up to get rid of it. Or I can't say exactly why. You're not an oral surgeon. Not an oral surgeon, not a dentist, but. This guy was, well, this guy's a dentist and an oral surgeon. Which they have to go to a lot of school to be an oral surgeon. So that's a lot.

It's like dentistry school plus some medical school, then a fellowship. So it's like eight years, I think. But they do very well, I think, because they're pulling wisdom. Oh, yeah. Then you got like a rolling tool chest and stuff. It looks like you're fixing a car. Dude, I got my wisdom teeth pulled out, man. I got my wisdom teeth pulled out, and it was whatever.

I don't know, like $3,000 or something like that. And I was asking the guy, and I was know, college kid and I didn't know anything. And I'm like, how many teeth have you pulled out? Just want to know. He's like tens of thousands. And I'm like, oh, tens of thousands times 3000. For sure, man. Those guys.

Cause he does them two, three at a time. My grandpa, Doc Callahan, oral surgeon, retired. Yeah. Had all crazy history. He did his residency at DC General. But this is a big dude. He played football at Carroll College National Championship team. Bunch of broken fingers.

And you see that guy coming at you. And you're like, those fingers are going in my mouth. It's not a pleasant scene as a kid. He's like, no, I use tools. Very strong forearms those guys have because they have to crank, you know. Oh, this dude was muscling. Yanni talked about getting his teeth, some wisdom teeth pulled out of him. Oh, I keep forgetting.

Yanni's not here. This is the first. No. This is maybe the second. Let me finish something up. Then we'll talk about Yanni's abs. Then we got to start talking about what we're supposed to talk about. What's new?

What's anything on the horizon? Oh, yeah. So Phil pulled, Phil the engineer pulled special clips of Yanni. Man, I forgot about talking about how Yanni's not here. Did you know I missed a podcast once and Yanni did it? I don't remember that. I remember that one. You did.

Oh, I do. Yeah. Yeah, long ago. I missed a podcast and Yanni handled it. I had a lot of critiques. Then Yanni's only missed like one before. He's not here, but this time Phil, hit another couple, Phil. Let's just say we're going to be able to just like install Yanni where we need him.

Go ahead. Right. Yeah. Yeah, see? Or I'll say like, what's your take on that, Yanni? Look at this. Science at work. That's a good one.

Very appropriate. What do you got? You got 24 options, Phil? 25. You can just hit them at will. Yep. Give us a couple more. Just a couple more options.

Okay. Or just hit a playlist at random. Oh, right, right, right. That's great. So you're on top of that right phil yeah yeah i've got a pretty good one that i'm kind of saving and i'm hoping to whip out later so okay just when you when yanni needs to say a word he just can butt in no sense and uh just he can just butt in and say what he needs to say yeah yeah i've always wanted to say this. Yanni's on assignment. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah, he's on assignment. He's filming his own special elk hunt in Colorado, for which he had like 17 bonus points? I think it was like 10 or 11.

No, no, no, no, no. Teens. No. Yes. I'll bet you any amount of money. What's Yanni's got to say about that? Do you have a clip of Giannis saying 17? If you saw, please play it.

No, I did not get that specific. I'm sorry. 17. High teens. I'm telling you, it's only like 10 or 11. You want to make a bet? Yep. Okay, how much?

Five bucks right now? No, like 100. Whoa. Everyone's precious. You know about the bet Giannis lost to me for $10,000? My dad and I used to do quarter bets. Let's do a quarter bet. Five bucks? Five bucks. Gianni lost a $10,000 bet. Was it

10 grand me and Gianni bet one time? Yeah. Something high. Yeah, I had to forgive him. Does he pay you on interest? No, I told him to forget about it. My friendship with Gianni is worth more than 10 grand. This is the last medical piece of uh listener feedback you got it he's blaming me on it this guy's blaming me for his uh for someone winding up in a hospital he went to make uh our hot butter buck nuts recipe yeah i've seen it if you cook testicles too fast, they burst.

You gotta cook them slow. And too hot. Too hot, too fast, they'll burst. But they always will kind of burst. They'll burst up. You ever cook a spawn sack out of a perch or bluegill? No. Same shape as a nut, and they'll also open up.

Yeah, a little membrane splits. Yeah, and like a row sack on a row shad will sort of open up and opens up in the exact same way like kind of splits and some stuff anyways they're cooking hot buttered buck nuts and um his wife's working on him she's cooking them and one blows up so violently that it scalds her eyeballs with hot butter. She has to go to the ER. He included a photo of the buck and his wife laying on a hospital bed. Oh, no. I'm sure she was not happy about either of those things.

No. The photo. He's like, you're going to have to do a better job explaining how to cook those things. Low and slow. Yeah. All right. We'll get you cooking with that chainsaw mask

that everybody wears. The visor. The steel visor. Yes, exactly. I got one of those. What do you think about that, Giannis?

I'm with you. Good job, Phil. This one's very specific. Do you want to ask, hey, Giannis, how did you like reading the cat in the hat to your kids the other night? Giannis. Two sentences I had to read twice or three times to really make sure I ingested it properly and knew what was going on there. That is very specific. That's what happens when Giannis reads cat in the hat.

Yeah. It takes him a while. That's what happens when Yanni reads Cat in the Hat. Yeah. It takes him a while. That was mean. It's possible to be really mean to Yannis right now. Oh, no. We can do anything we want. Okay. Sounds good.

Oh, and Brody's here. You've been talking, but you haven't introduced yourself. Brody Henderson. Yep. The great Brody Henderson. Yeah. Senior editor here at Meat Eater. Shot a big old bull with his muzzle loader.

Not big, but you know. Yeah, they're big. They're just large. Yeah. Compared to deer. They're big when you're dealing with them by yourself, man. That's some work.

Okay, Dr. Lazara. Yes, sir. Italian and Sicilian, I noticed you mentioned. It's true. You don't bundle them together? Well, I mean, you know, specifically, because I think you are Sicilian, right? Or you have Sicilian heritage. Yeah, I'm one-fourth Sicilian. And it feels like more than that because I got the name

and my father was raised by his grandparents who were Sicilian immigrants. So, you know. It's a specific flavor of Italiano, you know. Like people say Southern Italian is different than Northern Italian. Northern Italians were traditionally more wealthy. Southern Italians were tended to be looked down upon by the northern italians more romantic in the south i can't i don't know i can't better cooks i've been to italy and the food's great all over so no you know one of our camera guys ridge pounder was in sicily i've been there. Guess what he bought in Sicily? Crucifix.

No, he bought a pair of Birkenstocks. Which is how I was like, hey, he's like, I bought these Birks in Sicily. Depends. No one goes, yeah. Maybe his shoes exploded or something. He needed some impromptu footwear. Okay, let me paint a scenario for you. Well, what's most valuable?

I heard that you recently, I want to talk about guys falling out of tree stands. Yes, sir. And what that's all about and i want to talk about gunshot wounds okay and i want to talk about the most common general maladies not infectious diseases we already covered that with another feller right we covered that with the epidemiologist that is more maladies that afflict outdoors men and outdoors women correct yeah we can talk about whatever term of it there's just no perfect term hunters in general outdoors well you can see what if she's hunting mushrooms uh foragers people out yeah outside outer door people people who are using in an exploring nature i mean so where do we start brody was saying you recently had a guy uh come into your er area that had fallen out of a tree and had opened up his scroll that was a uh a case that happened uh not too recent but it was i think

it was about a year ago he um was was injured wasn't wearing i think he was wearing his harness but he didn't he wasn't clipped into a uh safety line going up and he had um the foot hooks that were in and had and slipped out and it just caught him right on back up he had what no uh you know those screw in foot hooks that you that you see him at like my yeah we were we were kids. Yeah, the brand we used was Deer Knees. I don't know what the brand name is. No, Deer Me. Was it Deer Me or Deer Knee? It's like a six inch hook, like an L shape or J shape.

And they're pretty burly iron or steel. And you screw them in. Seems very unsafe to me in general, but that's what it works. No, those things are not unsafe. But I'd never use them, but. Oh, you got one of those things in, man? Especially once that tree grows around them. They're there forever.

Oh, dude, you got to wrassle them. You had to bring a mallet to get them back out of the tree. Yeah. I like my climber. I feel more safe in the climber. So, finish now. Sorry. Climbs up.

Sorry. So, he climbs up to the top. So, he had his harness. So, this is something that we see a lot. People will wear their harness. There's a couple iterations. People either, A, don't wear a harness, or B, they wear a harness, but they don't clip in on the way up or down, which we know that most of these falls are occurring ascending or descending.

Traditionally, I mean. Is that true? That's true. So the data is hard. We can speak a little bit about the data around tree stand injuries, which it's an important topic because it's the number one malady that affects hunters as far as serious trauma in the Midwest and South. Out here, not so much because you guys aren't doing a lot of tree stand hunting. But that's the number one major thing to befall a hunter in the East and South.

Correct. Correct. As far as trauma, not gunshot wounds. And because this guy did not clip in, what was the malady that he suffered? So when he fell, he fell on the tree hook, lacerated part of his scrotum, and then he hit the ground. You're saying the tree hook was so strong.

Yes. And had such a purchase on the tree. Yes. That it was able to disembowel his scrotum. Yeah, well, it didn't pull his testicles out, but it did cut part of his scrotum. Yeah. And when Alan told us this, Brody turned to me and said. Left a couple acorns up in that tree.

So he, he eventually did well. We were, the, uh, the doctor that saw him was able to, they, they sewed him up, no problem. And, uh, you know, the wound healing and whatnot, but I, he got really lucky, You know, he landed on his feet, didn't break his back or his legs. But, you know, we saw, we will see people, middle-aged, very functional, you know, members of society. And they will fall. And then all of a sudden they're a quadriplegic and they're on hospice. You know, it's a heartbreaking situation. You know, it's terrible. In your area, and you said you have high hunter densities in your area.

Correct. Yeah, we have about, so I've been talking with the Michigan DNR, getting some numbers, and we have about 150,000 people in Jackson County, and we have roughly 10 to 13,000 individual hunting licenses, which is about 10%, which is above the national average of hunters. Because we're talking, the highest percentage is 8%, 7% hunter participation. And so we have a pretty high hunter density in our county. And, you know, we see everything from lacerations to people accidentally getting their eardrum blown open because they're, you know, not using gun safety, not using eyes and ears.

Oh, is that right? Yeah, I saw a guy who came in. They were messing around with a pistol and his, so it wasn't specifically a hunting injury, but it was a firearm injury. And his buddy just let it loose right when he was standing right next to him and it blew open his eardrum, just totally perforated. Oh.

Super painful. What happens then? So my understanding is if it's wide open, obviously no swimming or anything because you get water in there and your inner ear is then exposed and you don't want an infection to develop. It'll heal or not heal? Depends how large the, it's like a drum head. So depending on how large the injury is, it can seal over and then you kind of have a chronic weak spot or they can put a patch over it and create a new eardrum for you. So you see ear, nose and throat doc, and they tell you that kind of stuff.

So touching off a pistol next to his buddy's head ruptures his eardrum. Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty impressive. Completely ruptured it. And he was using a ton of pain. I mean, he was like a 25 year old guy. The HE, the head, ear, eyes, nose and throat, HE, ENT stuff, very painful because there's

a lot of nerve endings in your face, your ears, your nose, like your tooth. I mean, we see a lot of people who have bad teeth from, you know, not brushing, drinking too much Mountain Dew and smoking, and they come in in excruciating pain. It's really, I have, my heart goes out to them, unfortunately. I was with a buddy of mine yesterday and we were talking about flossing your teeth. Yeah. And he said last time he was in the dentist, they asked him when the last time he flossed his teeth was. And he said to the dentist, I don't know, when was I in here last? They came out. It's a good point.

So they came out with some, so they've been pushing the flossing thing for a long time and they came out with some sort of some study that said there's no definitive evidence that flossing prevents um you know decay or tooth loss whatever that can't be true it's bullshit i've been flossing every well i think you know my dentist told me so yeah go ahead no you tell me so i'm saying hi i asked you tell me what your dentist said. I have a problem with interrupting. So I should go ahead. Go ahead. So tell me what he said. Even though, even though there is a research study that came out and said that you don't need a research to wear a parachute jumping out of a plane. You don't need research study.

So you can bend research to tell it what you want to tell you. So yeah, it's like the doctors that the tobacco companies hire. For sure. For sure. So you, you just use common sense. Like, is this good? It's like 30% of your tooth surface is in between your teeth. So why not clean it?

You know? So anyway. Is that right? Yeah. Well, the guy explained to me when I was asking him what's up with flossing. Because I was saying, well, I'm not religious about it. I floss a fair bit. Floss four or five times a week.

Yeah. He was telling me, my dentist, who's a hunter. And my oral surgeon's a hunter. My dentist and my oral surgeon both like to hunt. So you have a lot of trust. And my knee doctor likes to hunt. There you go. I don't need him.

So I only went once and he said my knee's fine. So I don't know if he counts as my knee doctor. Talk about that later too. But what was I getting at? Oh, why flossing? He said that there are communities of bacteria that set up shop on your teeth. And they're always trying to set up shop on your teeth. When you floss, you interrupt the setting up of shop.

And the longer they get, and this is just in a matter of days, the more tenacious, the more tenaciously they can bind to the tooth. So he's saying by flossing every day, it's a convenient spacing of time to interrupt them from setting up shop in a way that makes them harder to get off. So it's not like you can catch up. Like, it's like, if you don't floss Monday, well, I'll just floss on Thursday. Yeah. By then they've adhered themselves in a way that just mere floss is going to have a hard time dislodging. But by keeping on that daily schedule, you're keeping them off before they can harden.

Yeah. I mean, I always ask why whenever I go to get your teeth clean, I'm always like, why do you have to use the same medieval type instruments to scrape my mouth like they used, you know, 80 years ago? But they're saying they're getting off that hardened plaque at the gum line. And like, no matter how much you brush, and that just happens with our diet. And, you know, I think it's a good litmus test. I always ask people who are in the dental field how often they floss, and then I can

kind of gauge how often I should probably floss. So if they give you two to three times a week, then I feel like that's probably pretty good. But they're not giving you that. No, they'll say that. The honest ones will. Some of them are fanatic and they floss twice a day. Yeah, I got you. I'll do every two, three days.

Just to wrap up the tooth conversation, you gave us a great hot tip on tooth. I had this happen. My brother shot my tooth out with a blowgun when I was 10. A blowgun? Yeah. With what, a rock? No, we would take aluminum arrows, okay? Mm-hmm.

And we'd cut the ends off them. And you remember what a light bright? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. A light bright peg. Well, that's not well. It's more complicated.

So there's a light bright peg. And a light bright peg fit an aluminum arrow wonderfully. Mm-hmm. And it was a very effective, accurate projectile to peg fit an aluminum arrow wonderfully and it was a very effective accurate projectile to shoot off an aluminum arrow oh okay but just so happened that a buddy of ours down on west lake named davey cole his old man worked in a ball bearing factory yeah and he had access to all diameters of ball bearings and so my brother came into some ball bearings that fit that aluminum arrow perfectly. And we do a thing called a machine gun where you would fill your mouth full of those ball bearings.

And then just start blowing and using your tongue to feed the bearings into the aluminum tube. Sounds like a Tom and jerry episode oh and you could get up and just rip someone like you could rip someone from crotch to eyeball with a stream of ball bearings on a good breath yeah and he uh we would wear goggles but no one thought to wear mouth protection yeah but he shot the tooth clean off wow snapped it in half and that exposed nerve i was saying how i was saying this exposed nerve even breathing would hurt. And you had a hot tip for, this is for people out in the field. This is like what we're here to talk about. Sure. A broken tooth and that exposed nerve, you can do what to help make it feel better.

So, so I've read and done, we'll see people for various kinds of oral trauma. They'll come in with a tooth half cracked off and, you know, they really need a dentist or oral surgeon, right? But they come in at 3 a.m. They're not, they don't have access to that. They got to wait until tomorrow or the next day or whatever. So to help mitigate some of that pain, you can put cyanoacrylate, which is superglue basically over that nerve. So you get the area really dry and then put the superglue on and then blow on it. So it dries real quick. It seals the nerve over and you're messing with the native tooth, but what the dentist is going to do is grind it down to a post probably, try and save the nerve and then put a cap on it. So whatever you put on that remaining tooth is

going to get ground off anyway. They have, they have other materials you can use, like Copac and other things in a dental box we keep in the ED. But that works pretty effectively. You probably need antibiotics, too, because you've got to expose nerve. Can get infected. Could get infected, yes. They recommend KB Weld. Nothing's going to get through that.

Super glue is going to look better because it's clear. Yeah, we use super glue all the time. The stuff we use in the medical field is, you know, for, you know, we use it for skin lacerations on the face and stuff. And for face, I use it all the time on my fingers. The stuff we use in the hospital is about, they say five times stronger than the stuff you buy at the store. But I use the stuff I buy at the store all the time for little cuts on my fingers. Because I don't like walking around with cuts. Yeah, I carry super glue in my kit, my little hunting kit bag.

Those single serving tubes. Yeah, that's a good, because they always get clogged up. You know what I mean? Then all of a sudden you're dealing with like a clogged tip and some goo in there that you can't really get to. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes.

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the OnX club, y'all. So what's the proper way if you get a cut how do you tell here's a couple questions is there more to say about falling out of trees before we talk about this next thing i would say you know since this is around the time where we have a lot of people hunting um in the midway you know using tree stands i would i would appeal to everybody to know that the number one injury would be falling out of a stand not away, you know, using tree stands. I would appeal to everybody to know that the number one injury would be falling out of a stand, not a firearm injury. You know, gun safety is extremely important. You know, we see those tragic injuries, but the thing that you're more likely to encounter is somebody falling out of a stand. So review a DVD, YouTube video, something, wear your harness.

You know, you want to live to hunt another day. You don't want to be paralyzed or with a broken pelvis laying in the forest. It's really important that people do that, I think. Yeah, I have a bad habit of getting in the tree and then putting the harness on once I'm settled. I have seen, I saw a guy who came in, he came in for like a colitis or a bowel infection. And I was talking to him and i said you got some nasty looking scars on your belly he's like 65 he's like yeah i'm like well what's that from just kind of shooting the shit with him and it was well i fell out of a tree stand i'm like how then of course my interest peaks up and i'm sorry asking him lots of questions

how'd that happen he goes well i got to the top of the tree stand and put my harness on and i slipped out putting it on like while he's in the top. And he was also on a blood thinner and it was, he, you know, fractured his spleen. It was amazing. He lived. And then the real bomb and he goes,

yeah, it was actually the second time that happened to me. And I'm like, dude, you're like lucky to be alive. Yeah. Times two. My brother's fallen out twice.

It's, you know, and you said ascending and descending. Ascending. So the, and like I said, the research is hard because not all of them are reported. Not every state tracks.

And Michigan doesn't track them. Illinois will track them. So, anybody involved in like a police officer or conservation police officer, it's a mandatory reporting in Illinois. But in Michigan, it's not. They just do firearms. So, getting the right. What's mandatory reporting? So, if somebody is injured in the field with a firearm.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. That's mandatory reporting? So if somebody is injured in the field with a firearm. Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. You that's a mandatory report to the DNR. So they there's a stream of information that gets passed from police officer through a specific network, kind of like a pager system. It was explained to me to the CPO who will then go investigate if needed at the hospital or at home and figure out what happened. And they keep a tally of these every year and they release a report. It's pretty morbid to read it, but it's interesting from a medical perspective to look at it and see, you know, a lot of these firearm injuries are occurring for, you know, it's, it's not, it's usually careless handling of a firearm, not failure to identify target. It's usually, you know, carrying your gun, you know, the wrong way up a tree stand, linking your, you know, hall court to the freaking trigger guard,

handing weapons to each other, falling over something, you know. The stuff you learn in Hunter's Ed, you know, don't go over a fence with a loaded gun. You drop your gun and it goes off. Don't rely on the safety, et cetera. That kind of stuff.

You know, you do see people swinging on, you know, I read one from Michigan. Somebody swings on a squirrel and the 22 hits, you know, a young person in the head and they die. And it's just tragic, tragic story. Was that this year? 2018. That was, it was like a 63 year old killed like a 13 year old.

It was just. Hunting squirrels. Yeah. Just that kind of stuff really gets to me. I think the further on I get in medicine, I get in medicine, you can get a little numb to pain in some ways because you have to function in an environment where you're functioning when somebody else is in pain and you're trying to help them. So if you're emoting with them and feeling what they're feeling, then you can't get your job done.

You can't help that person. The things that I think really bother me is when I can relate and whether it's, you know, it's a 36 year old guy who's always got a new diagnosis of cancer, or it's a little kid that looks like my kid that's injured. That shit's really hard to emotionally process. And so reading these stories because I'm a hunter and because I, I feel so bad, it's hard to even just read the one liner about what happens. Yeah, for sure. You know, it's thinking about, geez, man. But I should say, I sent a PowerPoint to Brody that we use some of these statistics.

There's a national injury database that's collected. There's 100 ERs in this. It's a government run database through the Consumer Protection CPSC. I can't remember the acronym, but it's a hundred ERs that are surveillanced and they input anything that is related to a consumer product. So if you're injured by, you want to know how many people are injured by vacuum cleaners, you can search vacuum cleaners, you can search hunting knives and lacerations to the hand, finger, arm, whatever. They estimate there's about six to 4,000 tree stand related injuries per year in the United

States. And it really has not, I looked at the numbers and it really has not declined with more education. It's pretty much stayed the same because our hunting numbers are going down a little bit. You know, the big game numbers, if you compare them, we're still having the same rough rate of tree stand related injuries across the country. Interestingly though- Okay, because it seems like there's so much more focus on it. There is, but it's just like seatbelts with cars, right? So we were talking about this earlier. Education is a hard thing to change habit

when it comes to our patient population and people in general. So you can talk yourself to your blue in the face, but until you engineer a solution into the equation, you're still going to get those people like, you know, like maybe my grandfather

doesn't wear a seatbelt as often as I would, but you put that annoying beep in your car, in the brand new car, you're going to wear your fucking seatbelt because you don't want

to listen to the beep for, somebody told me you can take the fuse out of that situation. Oh, yeah, that sounds hard to do, man. Yeah. They do sell, you can go online and buy,

you can go online and buy just like a buckle with an orange piece on it. Yeah. And then keep it clicked in there so it just syncs your buckled up. No kidding. Those people don't have any, I can't believe there's not a lawsuit against that company.

Well, on the Toyota, there's the sensors underneath the seat and you just disconnect that sensor. Uh, I saw once on YouTube. Cal's hot tip. Yeah. Don't listen to Cal. Okay.

Yeah. Do not listen to me. I'm a terrible example, but just like, as you are saying this, I'm realizing like when you're like, yeah, the 60 year old guy who fell out of the tree stand twice. Yeah. I just go, Oh yeah, I get it.

But if it's the 16 year old kid who falls out of the tree stand, I'm like, idiot. Yeah. Right. You know, because we're changing. Absolutely.

I feel bad for him. I don't because it's true. He is an idiot, right? You're like 16. You haven't seen a lot of stuff. Yeah. But the 60 year old guy,

like he's making informed decisions. Oh, I got you. Right. Yeah, I got you. And I just feel like if there was an emphasis on safety in my growing up, which looking back there, there was a lot of like, yeah, you shouldn't do that. And that was about it. Bet you learned your lesson there.

Yeah. I feel like that is just such a better way to start out because now, like, nothing, somebody's like, oh, well, you know, you shouldn't do it that way. Yeah. I'm always like, you should have seen me 10 years ago, man. Oh, for sure, man. Right? But I think that, like, the tree stand thing, like, I feel like a lot of people have changed their ways, man. Like, we used to build tree stands out of chunks of two by fours. Yeah.

Like, no ladder, no rope, like, just lean up there. My dad would make them, he would steal street signs. For a platform? Yeah. Like what, like a stop sign or like a- Oh, yeah, he'd take that, he liked that metal. Yeah. They used to have these, like, thick signs. It was like a l sign or like a oh yeah you take that you like that metal yeah um they used to have these like thick signs it was like a laminate it was like a thick plywood with a face on it for a

solid metal yeah and we had some tree stands you can still see like the parts of speed limit numbers and stuff but i wouldn't get up in one of those things i made when i was a kid yeah like i'd use you know i use harness you're like people i use harness. I think the reason that I started getting into it, I think, so before I started, I'm kind of an adult onset hunter. I used to wrestle in high school, college. And so wrestling season is pretty much all of deer season. Do you still have that wrestling problem where you're always trying to like wrestle guys? Yeah. We're not familiar enough yet, so I haven't done it to you.

If Yanni was here, I would have advised him about my blast double leg. What do you think about that, Yanni? Pick a good one, Phil. That's right. It's a thing. It's a unique subculture. It's under appreciated in how difficult it is.

It doesn't get any popularity like, you know, football gets so much play. And you wrestled at a high-end school. Oh, no. University of Chicago is a Division III. It was, you know, it was more about— No high-end academically. Oh, yeah. Which would mean it'd be easy to beat everybody.

Well— I'd have to hope. So I didn't—I kind of—it really—it's emotionally draining with, you know, cutting weight and training all the time. And your focus gets to be on other things, uh, when you're in college, um, that don't involve, you know, athletics, you know, and then, and then at a certain point, I'm like, I'm not going to be a professional wrestler. I'm going to study to get into medical school.

And did you have a wrestling scholarship? No, no, they don't. They don't. And D3, they don't have scholarship. They, they give you like a workman they like give you money to work in the cafeteria or something like that

and I could have gone to a smaller school and maybe gotten a scholarship but but you got that little Rodney Dangerfield swimsuit on

and went out there and your little helmet it's you know it's comforting I love it that's good I still will do club wrestling at U of M

with the college kids there And I get to pull the old man break Because I'm winded And I'm going to try and get my kids into it And we'll see if they like it Or maybe they'll be into fencing I don't know what they'll like You want to raise up wrestlers

It's so much fun dude It's a physicality and a fitness That doesn't ever go away A work ethic that you just cannot It's different than football. It's different because, you know, you're the only one out there. You're the only one,

there's no one else to blame when you lose. It's mano a mano. It's not as traumatic as boxing, right? I don't want my kids to box because of the chronic traumatic encephalopathy. I don't want my kids to play football because it's like the number one injured sport. Although I love playing football when I grew up.

So, but who knows what they'll be in. My wife's a very good influence in saying you should let them try and choose what they enjoy. I don't recommend that either. Let's get back. I want to get back to this. Okay. I want to talk about cuts in the field.

Sure. Cuts in the field. Right. We'll start minor. Okay. When is it okay and when is it appropriate to try to super glue a cut back together again? So when- And when is it okay? This is a two-parter. Okay. When is it okay? And when is it appropriate to try to super glue a cut back together again? So when, when is it okay? This is a two-parter. Sure. When is it okay to, to,

to do a Rambo and stitch yourself up? So it all has to do with, I think the size of the cut. Um, and what is your, uh, when are you going to be able to get to definitive care? So we ideally like to have wounds heal by primary intention, meaning that we'll stitch them back together, bring the skin back together so the skin can heal itself. The stitches don't actually heal the skin. They just bring it next to itself so it can heal. So we ideally try and do that within eight to 12 hours. Anything beyond that, we worry about enough bacteria from the environment getting in there and then we close it up and then we seal in some infection. Exception to that would be facial injuries because, you know, it's generally not tolerable to have somebody have giant scars in their face for cosmetic reasons.

So if you're in the field and you have like a, you know, a one inch cut on your finger that's closely approximated, it's not a lot of gapping or gaping um then you can stretch that thing out put some super glue on it and like kind of like pull it pull the skin on either end or pinch it together but you don't pack the inside with super glue no sir yeah so you want you want the skin so skin has different layers so you have like the top or superficial epidermis then you have the dermis and then you have the extracellular matrix underneath. The extracellular matrix is where these fibroblasts that are basically like connectors will come together and heal your tissue. You don't want that all gummed up with glue or you're just going to have, you know, you want the skin to be touching. And then you put the glue on top like a seal on top and provide that touching skin so it can heal itself. Bottom line, most of the time, we're just helping our body out.

The body is an amazing thing. It's doing and healing itself more than we're really helping most of the time. Yeah. You know. When I, I'm just talking about minor cuts. Sure. Like everything leading up to, everything leading up to like, man, I should probably get a stitch, but we're not going to go get a stitch. Okay.

That type of cut. Okay. Tell me if this is correct. Because I carry in my med kit only what's good up to that, only really what's good up to that point. Okay. Alcohol swab. Okay. Alcohol swab. Okay. Then Neosporin, triple antibiotic ointment.

Yeah. Then Band-Aid, then that stretchy tape you can wrap around there to protect the hole to Band-Aid on. So you could use, so there's a couple parts of wound care. So the primary part is making sure it stays clean and dry. And when somebody has a laceration or a cut, you can, we always irrigate them with water. And so a lot of people will use iodine and normal saline and other stuff, but really you can just use tap water. As long as you can drink it, you can irrigate a wound with it. There's been plenty of- Wash it out with just tap water.

There's been plenty of studies that show it's not inferior to the saline and the iodine. What about, what about creek water? If you could drink it, I mean, if you purified it and you could drink it, that'd be fine. Okay. What about creek water? I don't know that I know the difference. There's one dirtier.

Yeah, a creek is dirtier than a creek. Yeah. Patrick McManus, he described the difference being that in a creek, somewhere in there you can find a tire. In the absence of a tire, it's a creek. You worry more about, yeah, tires are fine. You know, feces from animals and other bacteria is what we worry about. But what you can do is you can take like a Ziploc bag or any kind of bag, fill it full of water, poke a hole in the bottom of it with like a needle, and then spray your wound and you have your little own irrigation device. That's a good way to clean it.

Spray it with water. That's what we do every time. And so before it was- Hot water? No, no, no, no. Just room temperature water is fine. Huh. thing about medicine is that everything, things are always moving and shifting and changing. And right. Cause now we're more evidence-based we'll do a study and then see what happens and, and we'll build on the people before us. Um, so previously it used to be, we think that it's the

pressure of the water knocking the bacteria off the wound. And now it's more, we think it's like the volume of water, but to me, it doesn't really matter. Just use enough water. They say 50 mLs per centimeter of cut. Just use a whole bunch of water, irrigate it out. See if you can bring the edges together. You could use, in a pinch, you could use duct tape to try and get it close together. You could use Steri-Strips or wound closure strips. In the Wilderness Medicine Fellowship that I did, they talked about, you know, in a real hard-up situation, you could use, like, boiled thread if you had to and a sewing needle.

You could use nylon. A lot of the sutures we use are basically nylon. Uh-huh. And we do use silk too. So, if you had silk thread, you could use that as well. What about dental floss? You could use that, but it's really thick, you know, like, so suture is graded based off size. Like 6-0 is what I would use for your face. It's very fine. It's like, you know, fairy hair, you know, like, so suture is graded based off size. Like 6-0 is what I would use for your

face. It's very fine. It's like, you know, fairy hair, you know, super thin, breaks real easy. And then, uh, like 1-0 or 3-0 is something you use for somebody's thigh. Dental floss is like double O. So it's like, it's like shot, you know, kind of like 6-0 is real at the top. And then 0-0 is down here and that's super thick. So dental floss would probably be real uncomfortable. Quick interjection. Do you ever get that dad who kind of like grabs you and you're like, you know, doc, like a little bit of a scar up there is fine? I have not had that. Like on the face, really?

No, we don't really see that. It'll look cool later. Right, exactly. You do get varied amounts of concern about scars you know and um typically people that are i mean what you'd expect like a teenage girl you want to make sure that her face is you know not scarred up but you know a 23 year old boy or man i guess boy you don't really care as much you believe in um you're telling me that you're like, you factor in age and gender when deciding whether they want a scar or not. So expectation, I think is important to

address. And so there is a large customer service aspect to medicine nowadays. And it is for, I think in by and large, I think it's for the better because I think if we treat people the way we would want to be treated, whether you're talking about a golden rule, you're talking about a service industry, you're talking about doing how you'd want your family member treated, then it's for the better. And I think both providers and patients are better off and feel better about their job, but it can go over the line, right? So you got somebody coming in who is pissed because their kid's got a runny nose and a cough. And I just talked to somebody who I just diagnosed with cancer and this other person's pissed because they're waited an hour. And so how do you address that? You have to treat them, but they don't understand. They don't know. No, because their experience is in a vacuum. Correct. And I think that that is a big societal problem. I think that's, so lack of social awareness is a big societal problem that we have.

And what's interesting about the emergency department is that you see all walks of life. You can walk down the hall and see a CEO of a company who's getting a DUI and crashes car and an 83-year-old grandma who has five family members at the side of their bed versus a 60-year-old guy with dementia that has nobody at his bed. Nobody cares about him. And then a little girl cut her face because her brother threw a book at her. You know what I mean? It's just the equalizer for everybody, healthcare and particularly ED, you know?

Uh, I wasn't dogging on you about it because my, uh, my four-year-old, he's got a couple pretty good nicks in his forehead now from stitches and I don't care, but I wouldn't want my daughter to be all scarred up. I feel, you know, I feel. I don't know why. I mean, there's a premium placed on beauty, like it or not, I think, you know. But I think, you know, I'm sure you feel the same way. All my children are beautiful, so. No, I'd prefer my little boy to be all scarred up.

It does. I guess, I don't know, I wouldn't be too tore up if my girl had a big old scar across her face. I think, you know, as long as there's no permanent damage otherwise, it's fine. It doesn't matter. Okay, what about stitching yourself up? I thought you couldn't do it because I was one time, we were hunting out east of here, and my buddy's dog got gashed up on a barbed wire fence my buddy's wife was a doctor okay it was thanksgiving day she stitched the dog up yeah thought she had it good and clean

stitched the dog up uh she gives stitches all the time yeah but she's just in my brother's garage stitching it up yeah and then ended up needing to open it back up yeah because of an infection that's unfortunate yeah yeah and she was worried about that happening due to the nature of the injury yeah but i thought that um when i watched rambo and we all went out and bought Rambo knives. Yeah. They had a needle and fishing line. In the handle, right? In the handle. Yeah, of course. I had that. It was the coolest thing in the world.

A non-functioning compass. A compass on the bottom, on the butt. Yeah. You used to be able to go to the Muskegon flea market and buy Rambo knives for $4.99. Plastic sheath, really bad little honer. That was the highlight. A honing stone and a handle. My grandfather was the first person to teach me how to shoot a.22

at a milk jug floating in a lake on his farm in Indiana. That was his preferred target. Milk jug floating in a lake. There's a home video of my brother and I. That's a great example, right? He must be. My brother must be. I kid you not, he must be four years old and we're doing this.

But they're over our shoulder holding it. But we used to go to the flea market in Southern Indiana and that was the main, it was either baseball cards or knives. That's what we wanted. Oh yeah. Yeah. And you could buy illegal fireworks at the flea market too. Yeah. And the Rambo, they had a lot of stuff down there. Butterfly knives. There was a couple of times in high school, this is horrible. I just want to say it's horrible. There's a couple of times in high school where we we would on lunch break go down to the muskegon river and have someone run upstream and huck bottles out in the river so that you could shoot 22s at them as they floated past the boat launch no kidding just stupid shooting it shooting a moving object with somebody nearby at a flat surface

you're breaking glass making some glass breaking some hunter safety rules for sure and then like Moving object with somebody nearby at a flat surface. Glass. Making some. Glass. Breaking some hunter safety rules for sure. And then like run back to hopefully not be tardy. That's the stuff of, that's the stuff of a youth though. I mean, that's what. That's not even youth. That's just, that's just like old enough to know better.

That's, that's the thing that I don't know how. We were dumb. I don't know how. So I tell my kids, my wife and I both, they, they love our hospital stories. And I think I think you live a paranoid life in some ways when you're in the healthcare profession, because you're around so many sick people. You see so much, you see somebody- You just think everybody's injured all the time. Dude. I mean, it's really, it makes you kind of paranoid. And so you might see a bookshelf

that's on a wall. I see something that could tip over and crush a two-year-old's head, because I've seen that before. And so you're just kind of have this thing that you're beating down you don't want to be super OCD paranoid but to teach your kids about the stuff like a good parent would like don't do this and I think the way and you guys touch on this a lot I think you talk about how you you mentor your children and bring them whether you I think you've taken his kids fishing, oh, sorry, fishing and stuff and talking about how, you know, boater safety and whatnot. And I think that showing people how it's supposed to be done and, and being a mentor is a very powerful thing. So anyway, we probably won't be shooting milk jugs and lakes when I'm. No, and if I caught my kids, Don,

shooting glass bottles at the boat launch, I'd wring their neck. For sure. Yeah. Drifting by on lunch hour. Yeah. Get back to school.

So I thought, because Rambo did it, I thought it was all right to sit yourself up. Then I thought that you can't, under any circumstance, to sit yourself up.

But then it just happened to be with two guys. These are some cool guys. We're in Wyoming and we packed in a horseback with these dudes, Crooked Sky Outfitters. We've been talking a bunch about both his dad and his kid have stitched themselves up. They stitched themselves up without any anesthetic. And then someone, I think maybe gave him some kind of anesthetic

that they could use next time they need to stitch themselves up. And I said, well, I thought you can't do that. And he showed me, he's like, I'm fine. Yeah. Stitch himself up.

So what's the verdict? Cool, not cool. I mean, if I had the, I've, the number of times I've, so I could stitch myself up. You could stitch yourself up if you had the appropriate material. I think it's all about the tools.

Like it's like carpentry. If you got the right tools, you could do it. Most people can stitch yourself up if you had the appropriate material. I think it's all about the tools. Like it's like carpentry. If you got the right tools, you could do it. Most people can stitch yourself up if you had the right tools, but you know, winging it with some thread and a sewing needle would be pretty. It's not a good way to do it. This is, you know, yeah, the skin, the cotton in there is probably going to cause irritation. I think the best thing would be, you know, Steri-Strips or some sort of like, you know, thing that you could try and bring the edges together or, you know, super glue super glue but so you don't recommend people to start stitching themselves up no i'm not trying to drum up any business but we're happy to see you in the department to sew you up anytime were those guys stitching themselves up because they like needed to like gash themselves

or were they just avoiding the hassle of going to a doctor? Avoiding the hassle because they were back in the mountains guiding and didn't want, and it's a long horse ride and a very long vehicle ride and they have clients with them. And it wasn't tenable to like, be like, Hey, I'll be back in two days. Yep. And ride all those miles and drive all, you know what I mean? Yeah. So they would just rather than doing that, stitch themselves up. And they were both firm believers in it. No Novocaine or whatever you call it.

Yeah, no lidocaine. Yeah, it's, I mean, it stings for sure. It doesn't feel good. I've had stitches and I think the anesthetic wasn't really working very well. And it hurts when you get the needle through your skin, but certainly not the worst pain. Yanni, are you ready to move on to tourniquets? Right? Yeah. he's very enthusiastic he's really excited about good job phil classic he's only got he's only got 25 to choose from but he's picking some great sound ups man yeah uh so yeah yanni's ready to

move on tourniquets okay uh me and calla let's say me and Cal Are out hunting Okay Bam I shoot him in the On accident On accident Shoot him right in the calf Okay Bleeding all over the place Okay A lot of pooling blood

And the bullet doesn't Just bounce off Cause you've seen my calves Yeah It's like a very high Cal High power load Okay

Um And And it's able to penetrate Yeah Cal's calf Mmhmm Not like a muzzleloader which would just bounce off but it penetrates cal's calf knocks a hunk of bone out of it who bleeding all over all right uh and let's just say we're in the universe where for whatever reason professional medical care is hours away and we're looking at the amount of blood coming out we're like man i don't know if a can sustain that level of blood loss sure what happens so they're in action or action right so

in action in action so you can stand there and watch which unfortunately you know as a bystander that go glass up on top of you like i guess you'll be okay we'll just put some so we see you know when it comes to like bystander participation somebody who's who was injured you can see a varied amount of uh success somebody can stand there or somebody can call 911 or, or you can get a t-shirt and just put it on there and basically mop up the blood. But what we should really do and what we're teaching, trying to teach our lay public to do now is, um, use the resources they have around them, uh, and get educated just like we did for CPR,

you know? And so there's a, um, a group out there called stop the bleed and they, um, allow people to become instructors and they teach people how to use tourniquets. And so a situation like that, where you have a lot of pooling blood and like a deep pooling blood for me. So, uh, human beings have about five liters of blood in their body. Um, and so if you have like just, they're laying in, uh, a circle of blood, you know, like somebody poured out. Pooling blood being a pool of blood. Like a half gallon of milk spilled out on the ground. That's a lot of blood.

And that is reasonable that maybe you should describe the injury. But is it reasonable that I could hit Cal like that and get a pool? For sure. I mean, so there's arteries. So not to be too simplistic, but in our cardiovascular system, there's arteries and there's veins. The arteries are under higher pressure than the veins. The arteries bring oxygenated blood to our tissues and veins bring it back. The arteries under high pressure, if you lacerate or injure an artery, that blood will pump out and will spray from me to Brody across the room. And it's hard to miss that. So if you have an extremity injury that's pumping

blood or even a bad vein that's bleeding a lot or a set of veins, you could need to use a tourniquet. And so the first thing that they teach in this course and what we teach is direct pressure. So you start putting pressure either with your palm of your hand, two fingers and some gauze or a t-shirt, or you can kneel on it to get hands free to grab. Is that right? Yep. Yep. You can kneel on it so your hands free. It's a hot pro tip from paramedics.

They're superstars out in the field. And so they do that a lot when somebody has injuries or they need to stabilize somebody's neck when they're doing stuff. So after direct pressure, if it's not controlling the bleeding, we still see, you know, blood so close, pooling of blood, then it's time to put a tourniquet on. And so. What about like what Rambo does where he. Cauterizes it. Cauterizes it with a flare. Yeah, that's not advised.

We talked about, we've talked about that a little bit and, you know, cinema has a lot of interesting interpretations of what medical injuries look like. And I think, I mean, we all know how devastating a single shot can be on a mammal like a deer. I can't speak to like what an elk or, but like, you know, a deer that it's just the amount of trauma that you get from a single round is incredible but you see these movies and people like run run through bullets like it's no big deal they get shot they're always getting shot like in the upper shoulder or over the clavicle and there's not a lot of bleeding but underneath your clavicle are these big arteries called the subclavian arteries that you would die like immediately if you had a 12 gauge round go through that yeah yeah so cauterizing is not a no good there's no situation where one ca. So cauterizing is not a. No good. There's no situation where one cauterizes.

Cauterizing is done in the operating room or I'd say operating theater because it used to be a theater. And they will use a pen like instrument to cauterize individual vessels. And when you talk about gross cauterization or large area cauterization, you're basically creating a third degree burn with a lot of dead tissue around that is probably going to get infected or fall off. So the major in the gunshot wound category, the first thing you try is direct pressure. Direct pressure. Yep. And depending on where it is. So we have three different areas. There's your extremities, your junctional areas, like your neck, your armpit and your groin, and then your torso, which is like your chest and your abdomen. Direct pressure will work for any of those sites, but you can only put tourniquets on your extremities really. From what point down?

So it depends on, so ideally if you are able to look at the wound, you put the tourniquet two to three inches above it. But in like say a combat situation or a police officer was shot or, um, somebody has clothes on, you can't tell you put the tourniquet on as high up as you can to the junctional area, all the way up the groin, all the way to the shoulder basically, or to the junction of the shoulder, tighten that one down and then expose the limb.

And then you see where the wound is and then put one, two, three inches above it. And you can loosen that top. Oh, so you can put two on. And you're not kissing that extremity goodbye when you turn to get it. No, sir. So even if you had a finger completely cut off or something that had complete blood flow cut off, six hours is when we're starting to worry about limb ischemia or lack of oxygen to that tissue, causing that tissue to die. Would you ever tourniquet a finger? Mm-hmm.

We do that all the time in the emergency department temporarily to get a bloodless field to be able to sew up somebody's finger. They cut it with a knife. Because there's arteries that run on either side of your finger, like where your fingers touch. And so what did I see? I saw a guy the other day, he's a tree trimmer

and he hit it with this chainsaw. And so his artery was bleeding like stink. And so we had to put a tourniquet. We injected it with some lidocaine with epinephrine, which that's a myth. You can't do that. Hand surgeons do it all the time.

And we put a tourniquet on it. On where? What do you use for a tourniquet? A rubber bit? Yeah. Yeah. We use like a vessel loop,et? A rubber bit? Yeah. Yeah. We use like a vessel loop, which it's kind of thinner. You probably shouldn't use it so thin, but we had on there for five minutes or something like that.

But we can use, you tend to want to use, if you're using an impromptu tourniquet, you want them to be like at least an inch and a half wide. You don't want something super thin. But for a finger, you can. For a finger, yeah. Whenever I'm having these kind of conversations i need to cross my arms why defensive posture or like a processing a clench up you get nervous about you don't seem like somebody you handle bloody bloody things all the time yeah i know but talking about people being real bad uh injuries yeah makes you want to cross my arms

because it maybe it's because you feel vulnerable i don't know you know i i similarly cringe like i was saying people with chainsaws that's a very common injury we see people either they're arborist or you know a lot of this like popularization of hinge cutting and things like that and i tell you it's the only manual i've ever read front to back is the chainsaw manual because it's they're powerful tools for sure i mean the popularity of hinge cutting it's like a thing so like my it's like a fad it's a it's a thing so ask mark kenyon about it it's so people will do it oh whitetail guys yeah yeah oh i thought you meant using a hinge when you fell a tree no no guys out in the woods hinge cutting trees yeah yeah to make whitetail

habitat exactly so you're bringing brows i thought you meant fellers. No, no, no, no, no. You're bringing browse. Not fellers like fellas, but fellers like tree fellers. Yeah. And I don't know what it is about chainsaws, but it's one of those things where I feel like the less you use them, the more confident you are with it. You know, like people that use them are just like, there's a varying degree of safety with them.

And I don't think they, they didn't read the manual. Oh, I'm very freewheeling with a chainsaw. But you know how to use it, though. Yeah, but I'm very freewheeling. Too much so. Oh, buddy. Yeah. Yeah.

Watching Steve Rinello with a chainsaw. Cal watched me one time take a chainsaw and stick it right into the toe of my shoe, cut right through the leather, cut through the sole, and stopped just shy of my toe. Lucky. Then I had to run around with the gash in my boots. Last time I saw you use one, you had flip-flops on. Yeah, flip-flop chainsaw. When we were grabbing those cottonwood stumps.

I tell you, the battery-operated chainsaw, that thing scares me because it's so toy-like. Oh, it's quiet, so how could it hurt me? Oh, yeah. And every time I grab that thing, I'm like, now remember, it's a real chainsaw. Yeah. And you watch that thing rip through wood, you know? And it's just like, my God.

Yeah. It's only a matter of time. I've turned over a new leaf. The last time I was wheeling a chainsaw, which was a couple weekends ago. Chaps. Yeah, for sure. Big boots. I didn't have my iron toe boots on, but I had big boots on.

Chaps, big boots. The steel helmet. Yeah, those are nice. With the drop down face mask. My dad got me that for Christmas. But it was snowing real hard. And you lift the face mask up, and you collect the wet snow. You put the face

mask down, and it was less than ideal, but I figured it took a little more maintenance. Took a couple of revs to find your cut again. No, I was full on. I was full on. And I've turned over a new leaf. But we used to be, in the old days, we were cavalier with chainsaws. I don't know if you

ever heard our favorite, my personal favorite chainsaw story from Doug Duren's dad. I do tell a story all the time, but I try to tell a short version. It's like Doug Duren's dad gasses Sternum with a chainsaw. And like he goes and drives down and gets rescued and goes to the hospital and stuff. And a while later, like he'd left his, all the stuff out in the woods. And a while later, Doug goes out to retrieve his old man's stuff. And there's some old home light chainsaw. And he said, that chainsaw is laying on the forest floor.

What, what, what, what? It's like it's possessed by a demon sharp and he's taking care of the motor right he's taking care of that motor it's probably 20 years old dude it's the greatest story i feel like he told it on this show uh okay so let's get back to tourniquets what do you use for a tourniquet so we use um so if it's for a finger you can do something like a vessel loop or like basically a rubber band. Yeah, I know what that is.

Yeah, yeah. What about paracord? Paracord, I would not use that because it's too thin. So it's too thin because it's for a finger. For a finger, you could use that temporarily.

You know, it's all like temporary stuff. But for like an actual extremity wound, we would use something like the Cat 7 or like the Sam XT. There's like,

there's like- What about stuff just a person's got laying around? So you could use – Or is that not cool? No, you could definitely make an impromptu tourniquet. Like on Cal's podcast, they talked about the guy from British Columbia who got mauled by a grizzly and ripped his own shirt limb off, tie that around. So you basically tie it around your limb and then tie like a hat, like you're tying your shoe and then put a stick in there, tie a knot on top of that, then twist that stick around and then you tie the stick down so it doesn't move. You could do that.

And it's okay to do this. You could do that. So if I'm bleeding like holy hell out of my finger and I want to slow it down to bandage it, I can just wrap something around my finger. The base of your finger, yeah. And start tightening it until the blood stops and I'm not doing irreparable harm to myself. Not until about six hours, yeah. Yeah, it's important to know this isn't a fix.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a temporary situation. You have to then keep hunting all week. No, yeah. Hasn't bled for days. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a temporary situation. You have to then keep hunting all week. No, yeah. Hasn't bled for days. It's turning a little green though. It's purple. I like this new shade.

I had no idea you could do this. Yeah, so, and again, to emphasize, it's a temporary thing. I mean, if you have

an arterial injury or a deep enough laceration, you should seek medical care, you know, to have it evaluated, you know, whether or not it's, it actually needs stitches or not, or it needs something more like you cut your artery, you're gonna need to see a hand surgeon because the nerves and arteries tend to run right next to each other. So if you cut your index finger nerve, I mean, that's a real fine area of, you know, sensation for typing and handling stuff.

You know, you don't want to have a nerve injury if you don't need it. So you got to see a hand surgeon eventually. What's your take on carrying combat gauze? I used to carry it and I carried it without knowing how one uses it. Or no, like quick clot. Sure. Yeah. Quick clot.

It's about the same stuff. Yeah. It's like all, all impregnated gauze with something to help clot blood well i carried it for years yeah then i realized that it was rock hard inside there like it wasn't good anymore anyway and i threw it out yeah and then i learned that i didn't know how to use it anyway because i thought you held it on top of the wound and then someone sent us a video you need to pack that stuff into the wound channel. It depends what kind of wound, right?

So there's varying kinds. There's surface wounds and there's, you know, puncture wounds or deep wounds or cavitating wounds. So a bullet wound will cavitate, right? What's that mean? Cavitate means create a cavity. I know what it means on a boat engine. Yeah.

I actually, I had no idea what that means. Or cavitation plate? I don't know. To prevent it from sinking down, probably well the motor like on a jet cavitation becomes a because you don't want to air like there's an intake and you want the intake exposed to undisturbed water okay so people are very careful about the position like the position of the cavitation plate relative to the bolt hole. I'm learning about all this right now.

I'm anything but an expert, but I've been using the word cavitation more than normal. It's good. Normal being none. Unless you're talking about the hunt for red October. Yeah. I believe the word cavitation's in there a lot. They talk about it a fair bit.

Yeah. Good movie. But no, I'm still not able to use it with any sort of confidence. So, uh, bullet wounds have both, you know, there's a realized track and there's also a temporary track that's created by the pressure of the wound. And so you can have nerve and artery damage from that pressure as a bullet goes through. Oh, the hydrostatic shock.

Correct. Yep. Absolutely. So, but part of that, you know, you can get some cavitation of tissue where you have tissue blown out or. Yeah. So, but part of that, you know, you can get some cavitation of tissue where you have tissue blown out or. Yeah, I got you. So it's a hole. And so in a situation like that, putting some of those clotting agents in there into the hole to fill the hole and put pressure on the veins and arteries.

Not only that, but also helping promote the coagulation cascade that happens in your body naturally. That's how they work. But we do see, you know, we'll see people who have superficial wounds sometimes that require, say they're on a blood thinner, which it's more and more common nowadays. People have abnormal heart rhythms, they have history of blood clots, and they're on a blood thinner, and they have a wound that just will not stop bleeding. It's really frustrating for not only the patient, the provider too, to try and get it to stop. We'll put some of that stuff on there and just put a gentle pressure wrapping on it and then it will clot off usually. So you can use it in a superficial way, but in your application, if you had a stab wound or something like that, you're

going to try and pack some of that stuff in there. Yeah. What is a, uh, item, a med item, a med kit item that you find, uh, that people don't have with them, but should, and is there stuff people have, but shouldn't, and what is an appropriate kit? So Brody and I are talking about this the other day,

by and large, um, the kits that people will buy at like REI or whatever, you know, buy them at Meijer or whatever. I keep them in my car. Go into Amazon, type in medical kit and then throw that in your car and be like, sweet. You've got, so yeah. So you're going to spend all this time and you feel secure if you have that equipment nearby. So the best medical equipment that you can have is the medical kit you can have is the one that you have with you, right? Because if you have that equipment nearby. So the best medical equipment that you can have is the medical kit you can have is the one that you have with

you, right? Because if you have a nice sweet-ass kit but it's in your basement, it doesn't really matter if you're having the shit at the fan. Like in the laundry room somewhere? Yeah, yeah. By and large, a lot of those kits are just band-aids and like a pair of scissors and some tape and, you know, gloves and whatnot. But you can make your own

medical kit with that same stuff for far less money and have it tailored to your needs. So the thing I would say, if you're involved in any kind of firearm or outdoor adventuring situation, I think a tourniquet is something a lot of people do not have. Like a full on legit store-bought tourniquet. Correct. Yep. I think that that's very important because the most likely thing that's going to happen to you is, you know, well, the most likely thing is you're either going to get diarrhea or roll your ankle or both when you're camping or hiking or whatever. But on the off chance that something super bad happens to you and you have an extremity injury, having a tourniquet can be a life-saving. What's a tourniquet?

What's a store-bought tourniquet wind up looking like? Is it small? No. Yeah. We got some out in the lobby. You want me to go grab one? Yeah, go grab one. We got a bunch of them. Yeah, why not, Brody? I'll be right back.

What do you think about that, Yanni? Should Brody grab that tourniquet? Yet another great reason to buy an Onyx membership. Oh, no, that's not it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, yeah, I don't need a tourniquet but the uh a store-bought tourniquet right because all you were ever taught was like how to make a tourniquet how to improvise a splint how to improvise a tourniquet but uh yeah just just in the lobby of our office here

i was like you know having that pre-made specialized this is all it does is a tourniquet saves you a lot of thinking time in a crisis situation. Oh, here's Brody now with a tourniquet. Looks like something you'd use to strap your canoe down to the top of a car. Mm-hmm. So there's a variety of different kinds. There's about seven of them that are approved by the TCCC, which is the Tactical Combat Casualty Care Organization, which is a government organization that approves these things. And you can buy one for like-

Let me tell you right now, go on. But the problem with that is it's too big and most guys aren't going to carry it. Yeah, I mean, so- I'm going to start. Prevention is, I think, a real important thing that we. It looks like you're carrying a belt around with a stick tied to it. Yeah. He's tourniqueting Cal.

What happened, Cal? Well, I just hope this thing can hold up, these beefy arms. His biceps are pretty large. So Cal was gored by. There may not be enough strap. Cal was gored by a... There may not be enough strap. Cal was gored by a elk. It's bleeding out. So the main, one of the main causes of tourniquet's failure is that they don't get pulled tight enough initially.

And you try and pull this windlass around. It's kind of like putting your scope... Good word choice. Yeah. Trying to put your scope on and then doing the fine tuning. If you put your scope on all cockeyed on your barrel, then doing all the fine-tuning in the world is not going to fix it, right? Gotcha. So you're putting this on... Sorry, Kel.

Oh. Yeah, just don't hurt yourself, Doc. Crank that thing until his hand turns purple. Ah. So it's supposed to click, but I'm not getting enough. Look at this. Science at work. Whoa. That was a good observation, Yanni. And then you twist this windlass around and it will stop the bleeding, but I'm not getting enough. Look at this. Science at work. Oh, that was good.

Good observation, Yanni. And then you twist this windlass around, and it will stop the bleeding. But usually these will click. Oh, and then you Velcro that windlass down. Yeah, his clothes are twisted. Now, who in the world has got a leg that big around? A leg that big around? Or an arm? I feel like your tourniquet could be trimmed down.

There are some big folks out there. Yeah, dude. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, but they're not going to be backpacking with a leg like that yeah for sure you're right about that unless they're just like extraordinarily powerful yeah so those will you could fit you could tourniquet my my head chest area you could tourniquet me around the armpits with this tourniquet not advisable yeah yeah you don't tourniquet neck wounds neck wounds junctional areas don't work no you don't want to do that but what we learned this morning right is like a huge part of this like triple c

deal coming on is mass casualty events right so you got a big variety of folks in a random spot so the way so i'm sorry but this thing still doesn't make any sense to me. So it should be said, I think... Brody's tourniquetting me now. I'll do my leg. No, no, do my arm. All right. I can only learn when something is, like, you know... Think of a good injury for me, Cal. What happened to me?

Brody is working on your forearm. So this is your classic chainsaw injury right here. If we get the video working, people will be able to check this out. Yeah, tourniquets hurt is one thing. No, Brody, Jesus, it's not cut that bad. That's how you're supposed to do it? Yeah, but when does that little crank

come into play? Then now you do it. Once that's as tight as you get it, then you crank it down. It's going to hurt if I do it hard enough. Give me one portion of a crank. On the windlass there. Oh. And this, the windlass, you're cranking that thing until you see the blood flow. And just put it, hook it in now.

Then how's the anchor of the windlass in? Right there. I feel like we're talking about sailing. Yep. Just like that. Yep. Perfect. Oh.

Yeah. And you can crank that windlass down way tighter. Oh. But you're cranking the windlass until you see the blood flow slow or stop dude i want to throw one of these on someone who's bleeding so bad it's uh very satisfying to help save somebody's life with some one of those yep for sure so we just had there oh that one clicked that's why i didn't because it was i think it was it was clicked that's why i didn't go i'm not carrying one of these just because i want to do it to someone so i should

say you know you know, you know. Anyone run around with firearms out in the woods you feel should have one of these. Correct. Yep. I bought them for my hunting group as a, you know, every year we get each other presence of some variety. It can be commemorative knives or whatever, you know, nice bottle of. Guys are always jabbing arrows through their legs and stuff. Yeah. I mean, certainly any kind of penetrating wound, I think you should, if you can be exposed to that.

All right. I'm switching over. I'm going to start carrying one. I like it. So we did the Stop the Bleed course today, which is a course that was created by the American College of Surgeons after the Newtown, Connecticut shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary. And so basically the surgeons in Connecticut were, the trauma surgeons said, look, we need to do something about this. How are we going to do public outreach and prevent loss of life pre-hospital? And so they met, they put out four papers and they created this Stop the Bleed campaign where anybody who has some degree of like medical background, anybody from a respiratory

therapist to a dentist, to a chiropractor, doctor, nurse, EMT, lifeguard, ski patrol, can get certified as an instructor. And then you can teach people how to apply, you know, direct pressure to stem massive bleeding and apply tourniquets. This is all in an effort to mobilize our first responder base to basically the lay public. So if a shooting happens, like, or like, for instance, a bombing happens, like in Boston. That marathon one. Yeah, that one. The Boston Marathon. So this, that happened, I can't remember what year that happened, but they saw the effects of bystanders applying tourniquets and saving lives. And those people were not using,

they were using belts and improvised tourniquets and they were not perfectly placed, but they still stemmed the bleeding and those people were whisked off to trauma centers right nearby. Yeah. See that thing again, Brody. So there's a big movement to mobilize the public, just like for CPR, teaching people how to use AEDs, how to do massive hemorrhage control. And unfortunately, this is the world we live in and it's a scary reality. But like our parents, they had to do the duck and cover thing for the Cold War, right? They were going to duck under the desks if there was going to be a nuclear holocaust. Get under your school desk on the rooskies.

For sure. Which would not work. But, you know, this is. No, you've got to make like the Red Dawn kids and head up and hunt mule deer. So. What brand is this? That is a, and I'm not paid by them at all, but that's a Sam XT. And I remember-

You like this kind? Sam Company, when we would do wilderness medicine training in medical school and college, I would write them and say, hey, could you guys give me some splints? We're a bunch of poor med students with a lot of debt. And they would send me some stuff for them. And so, you know, there's a variety of different choices. I think people should explore them, but it's definitely different than the ones. So that's the same like SAM splint and stuff. Which is something you also say you should be carrying in your kit.

Yep. I can't get it open, Brody. That'll just click. So here it'll here it's not a single use is it no no no no brody can't get it open here it doesn't click here i got it so anyway you said uh a sam splint sam we should be carrying those around and there's a um there's another one that's more commonly carried now because they were like one of the so it'll click like that so that's and then you just lift it up like that so it's it's the pressure created on that that makes it and you just lift

it up like that so um the cat seven which is uh they have seven generations of them those are the ones i think primarily are used in uh combat medicine and and also uh like police officers and stuff will carry those but i think these are probably going to be more popularized. So part of the course is you have a model, uh, with like a, it's like a fake thigh with a big gash in it and a bullet wound, and you can practice on that. And then once you do it a couple of times, then you're, you're good to go. I mean, it's, it's like learning, it's much more simple than CPR for sure. Um, it's kind of funny, the fake thigh with the wounds in it, you jam your fingers in those wounds it brody and i were sitting next to each other and like yeah that is we know that

feeling yeah fishing around for yep a bullet or something you know yeah that trauma flesh feel hey folks exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Our northern brothers get irritated.

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Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com.me. onxmaps.com.me. Welcome to the OnX Club,.com slash meet. OnXMaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX Club, y'all. What else is good to have? So I think something like a SAM splint because musculoskeletal injuries are very common. A splint? A splint, yeah.

So they have these malleable splints that are made of, they're basically aluminum that has a little bit of padding on it. And the guy that invented them was a trauma surgeon from vietnam and he specialized in orthopedics when he came back and um was playing with this is a connection juicy fruit wrapper and was folding the foil and decided that if you fold it a number of ways it's more stiff and so that's how he created these and we see those those coming all the time. There's, there's knockoff versions, but I'm pretty sure they made the first one. Um, but I, I feel like here's what you're running the risk of. People aren't going to carry a splint. So you guys do the type of hunting that you guys do.

You're, you're going from what I see. I mean, you guys move, you cover a lot of ground and you move far. You don't generally have like big horse brought in camps right like but people that are running operations where you're horsing in people and gear like having a medical kit the size of a toolbox is not unreasonable to have some of that stuff in it and a lot of this stuff is pretty lightweight for the benefit in any medical kit you want multiple use items in it you don't just want a one-off other than something like a tourniquet is a one-off valuable thing. You know, having things like some hypodermic needles, you could dig splinters out of your finger, having appropriate

medications. I think, you know, I was talking to Brody about this. You have a pill box and you label it aspirin, acetaminophen slash Tylenol, ibuprofen slash Motrin, Imodium for diarrhea, and then Zofran, which is a, or Ondansetron, which is for vomiting. Yeah. You know, so. You know, I carry a, I carry a single serving, two tablet, twin tablet Benadryl's too. Yep. That's not unreasonable too. So the pharmacology that you really need to have with you is, is a lot of it's over the counter and it's pretty easy. You can get really great pain control with doing alternating Tylenol and Motrin and people don't really realize. Can you explain, because you explained that to us

yesterday, why you carry Tylenol and ibuprofen. And so for everybody that's listening to, all medications have trade names. Tylenol is a trade name. Acetaminophen is the generic name. And it's, in my experience personally, I just buy the generic Meijer brand. So acetaminophen is Tylenol. So when you alternate them, you're supposed to take them, like you're supposed to take acetaminophen every six hours. And you're supposed to take between 500 milligrams. Sometimes you can take 1,000 milligrams, but you want to stay below 4,000 milligrams a day. Otherwise you can hurt your liver. So a lot of people will take medications

and then all of a sudden an hour, five or six, their tooth is throbbing again. They feel awful. And they're like, it takes a while for the new medication to set back in. In between that, what you could do is you could take a different medicine that works in a different way. So Tylenol works at the central level at your brain to reduce pain and fever. And ibuprofen is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory that helps work at the site to prevent swelling, pain, inflammation. So you're using two different meds that work two different mechanisms of action to help control your pain. So if you had somebody in your party who you guys are eight miles out and they broke their ankle, getting them good pain control can turn that situation from,

you can extract yourself, put a splint on, you can hobble out with a crutch versus we got to carry you out because we can't get good pain control. And when you have to carry somebody out, which I've never had to physically do on a wilderness trip, but I've done in my training, it is an arduous ordeal and it puts the whole party at risk to have to huck somebody out. Very, very difficult. Dead weight is horrible to have to carry around. I mean, you guys know all that. Like putting a backpack.

We've been pulling Brody along for years now. Yeah. Not my dead weight. Animal wise. Let's talk about it. What, you know what a cam strap is Animal-wise, let's talk about it. What, you know what a cam strap is? Like an NRS strap?

Do not. Hmm. Boat strap? Boat strap. Like just a, like a, like a hitch? Like a,

like a, No, a cam strap. It's kind of, it's a, yeah, it's very similar to this where the buckle

has teeth that allow that strap to slide primarily one direction. And it rides on a spring. Is it like one of those where you go like this, like a crank, something on my top of my car? No, no, no, it's a ratchet strap. Ratchet strap. So that's all I know. Yeah. Cam strap's different. I was wondering if that'd be a good tourniquet.

Depends how wide it is, right? One inch. One inch. You can get one and a half. So one and a half is probably better than one, but you could crank that down for sure. I mean, people make tourniquets out of belts and shirt sleeves and all sorts of found one, but you could crank that down for sure. I mean, people make tourniquets out of belts and shirt sleeves and all sorts of found material, but the main goal is to stop the arterial flow to that distal injury.

Yeah. So. You know what I carry? What do you carry? Well, I'm telling you, but I'm also checking with you. Yeah, sure. I do the Tylenol. Mm-hmm.

Ibuprofen. Mm- sure. I do the Tylenol, ibuprofen. I buy a single serving. There's little square foil packets with two pills each. Yeah. I use an OR organizer, backcountry organizer. It's got a pocket that is almost like made for this. I put a bunch of Tylenols in there, a bunch of ibuprofens in there. As far as I know, they don't make Imodimed in those packets, but I buy the push packets of Imodium AD.

Which is nice. We were talking about this yesterday. It's nice to have the label on there, the dose, so you know what you're doing. Yeah. The ideal ones are the kind where when you tear the square off, it carries the information on it. Because a lot of times I'll look in there and I don't know what I got. Yeah. Then you're just handing stuff out. Yeah.

Yeah. So Imodium AD, and then I carry Benadryryl because i'm always afraid of someone getting uh allergic reaction some kind of reaction yeah unfortunately you feel like i should add in some uh zofran i would yep for puking because i i have been um all of my experiences with that have not been actually in the field they've been pre being in the field field and having diarrheal illness so bad that you can't feel like you can't walk because you're so weak is a profound experience. It feels awful. And so if you have some Imodium or you have some antibiotics that you might, you know, get your doctor to prescribe to you ahead of time. Like if you guys are going to hunt in South america i would say hey write me a script for

uh keflex in case i get a bad skin injury like an infection and like some either augmentin or bactrim or or cipro for bad diarrheal illness yeah that's the one i usually get i get it like when you're going to get your vaccines checked your checked. I'll get the traveler's diarrhea prescription ahead of time in anticipation of. So the only thing with that, so, and I remember this is not, it's not a wilderness thing, but we were traveling after medical school and we were in Egypt and it was like a group trip that we went together and it was fun. And we all ate in Cairo at this like beautiful place. And we were looking out over this huge park and we decided to have some appetizers.

We had some tabbouleh. You're not supposed to eat like the fresh stuff. You're only supposed to eat the cooked stuff because basically the water has feces in it in certain areas or, you know, in different parts of the world. The sanitation is not quite the same or you're just not used to that kind of bacteria, like India or whatever, I'd probably get diarrhea immediately. And like six of us were just crapping our brains out. And I was the only one that had the Cipro. So I had people like knocking on my door in the middle of the night, like, hey, could you try to spare a little Cipro?

And the real dirty kid in your group's doing just fine. Yeah, exactly. We had our kids licking the floor at the airport on the way here. It's a great way to prevent illness. But the Cipro, it changes. So the bacterial

resistance patterns change and also side effect profile is different. So with Cipro, one of the things, it's a low rate. It's like less than 1%. You can have a tendinopathy

that develops after taking even a short course where you can rupture your Achilles heel, which for something... What? Whoa. yeah, it's really messed. Yeah. So it's a very effective thing for treating diarrheal illness, but I try and avoid it unless I absolutely need it for, for somebody who has an allergy to say Augmentin or Bactrim. So I would probably not recommend that

at this point, you know, given the amount of activity level you guys do. And like, you know, so the thing in medicine is that you have studies and you have anecdote. And so anecdote speaks wonders. So I saw like two or three cases of it within six months. And I was like, oh man, this is, it really affects you. You know, when you see enough cases like that, even though it's not, the preponderance isn't that high, you know, and if there's a better alternative, why not without those kinds of side effects, why not try that? Do they use Cipro to treat beaver fever? I don't know what, so they-

Like Giardia and Cryptosporidia. They use, to treat Giardia, I believe they use metronidazole, which is a different kind of antibiotic. It works on that particular kind of bacteria. It's a, Giardia is a protozoa. Would they give you that just to carry around with you? Depends on, I mean, it's not unreasonable to ask your doctor and to go and say, I'm going here, I'm doing this. What would you recommend? I mean, this is kind of a, especially in this type of area. I mean, if you guys are in Montana or Colorado and they deal with hunters that are doing things that you're doing, then they should be familiar with. If you go overseas, they can give you on the CDC website, what vaccines you need,

you know? So it's not unreasonable to ask ahead of time for small prescriptions like that because you know like you might not need um you know if you had a prescription for uh cephalexin for a skin injury or uh cellulitis that developed you could start taking that and then as you got back out you know go see your doc and say he'll say keep taking it or this is getting worse you need different antibiotics you had to go to the hospital so um it's kind of a bridge you know man we didn't even get into flesh-eating bacteria it's a rare to come back out oh so many so much we could cover no one knows this but we're working on we've never even mentioned this i don't want to tell too much secret project we're working on a secret project top secret i heard top secret

book project and uh this will give a little bit of a hint. Yeah, if you're smart, you can figure it out. This top secret book project is divided into. Did I say book? This top secret project is divided into 10 components. One of those components, Dr. Lazara is consulting on us with love to help anything i can do um we never talked about flesh-eating bacteria which you think is just a freak it's a freak yeah it's it's a scary thing you know um it's a very rare thing but we do see it it's becoming more and more

prevalent with the more and more diabetes we see. And the main thing that you worry about is somebody who has like pain out of proportion to a wound that looks like it. The ones I've seen, the guy had an innocuous wound on his thigh. It just very clean looking. It was a small puncture wound. I don't even, he doesn't even know how he got it. And he lost his entire leg and almost like part of his abdomen. And it's a, it's a terrible thing. The bacteria will glide along the fascial planes, just like when you're processing a deer. Yeah, I want to talk about this too. It will glide along the fascial planes

and just travel up and down. And the main treatment is operative debridement. So it's not antibiotics. I mean, we give the antibiotics, but they need to go to the OR to get the limb cut off or the area debrided and cut out. It's a scary thing. And so in my profession, we are very focused on risk versus benefit and thinking worst case scenario a lot.

And so if we see somebody with that, we will call the surgeon and say, I need you to come take a look at this guy and give me your opinion. What do you think? And, you know, a lot of times they'll just take them right to the or or we can do a bedside we'll just do a bedside cut and if like dirty dishwater appearing fluid comes out and the tissue's like soft you put your finger in there and it's just like fucking pudding then that's a high chance they have that yeah that's just beyond reason it is feel like if you go in and they're like okay something really serious and they take off your entire leg, that's where it ends. That's where like reason, okay, yes, okay, it was very serious.

You had to take off my entire leg, but then when you like throw in the and part of the abdomen. Yeah. That's like where it gets beyond reasonable. It's like, no, no, like very serious. That's when things start getting serious. But it moves super quick. It's like, no, no, like very serious. That's when things start getting serious. But it moves super quick. It moves super quick, yeah, like 24 hours or less, and you're hurting really bad.

I mean, I think. My gripe with the fascial planes that you described is the way when you shoot a deer, the way clotting will travel in those fascial planes. Well, also air too, right? So you feel all those air bubbles, like, you know, shoot something in the chest and then you're looking at air bubbles in their back

thigh. Why is there like, why when I take the front shoulder off, is there like clotting all the way up into the neck, the way it travels between those things? I just think it's because of the massive destruction. Like you expose that, the bleeding happens

everywhere. And so we'll get, sometimes we'll get people that pop a lung, they get a pneumothorax, and then you get this thing called subcutaneous emphysema, which is basically air slash, feels like Rice Krispie treats under the skin. Yeah. You can feel it on your deer too. Oh yeah, for sure, man.

And you'll feel the deer, you'll feel up the neck and towards the face, and you'll feel that like kind of Rice Krispie treat. That'll happen when people puncture a lung? Yeah. Yeah. It's scary because, you know, sometimes their face can swell or, you know, it makes it difficult to put a tube in to treat it because, you know, they might be an obese person. They have a lot of fat tissue.

And then all of a sudden you're dealing with air and you're like having to smush, basically smush their chest. Like you're pushing on a, like a, like a bubble wrap package to, to get down to the chest wall, you know. A guy just wrote in, I'm trying to get permission to put this photo. I'm sure I'll be able to get down to the chest wall. You know, the guy just wrote in, I'm trying to get permission to put this photo. I'm sure I'll be able to get permission to put it. I'm gonna put it on Instagram.

So if you go to, um, at Steven Rinella, you'll find this photo by the time you listen to this. Hopefully he hit a mule deer with his bow. Yeah. And wanted to give it a while before he tracked it. And he goes up to the top of the hill to sit glass round for a while.

And eventually not far from where he shot glasses up a buck standing next to a tree. Then the more he looked at it, something was weird about it. He'd hit the buck. The buck ran down the hill, must have misstepped and impaled itself through the ribs on a broken branch that went in one side and puckered the hideout on the other side. Oh, man. Talking about a bad way to go. He had to pull it off the stob, which is a tree man term for a broken limb.

I do not know that term. I used to question whether it was a real word or not, but I've come to accept it. Pulled it off the stob, and he sent us a picture of the deer hanging on the stob, and then the stob with the deer removed and that deer was all the way through it yeah puckering out the hide yeah that's a that's a sad way to go for for any creature unfortunately as a last thing you're gonna have to come back because we didn't even scratch the surface well i don't think like i wasn't very i wasn't like a very good host because i didn't i wasn't very efficient.

You guys are, I mean, did you ever take a class in hosting? Because you guys all do a pretty darn good job, I think. School of hard knocks, man. Well, I mean, conversation can be complicated sometimes. There's not a lot of dead space on your podcast, for sure. I try to do a good hosting job, but I didn't get to my, I didn't like get to everything I wanted to get to. Missing Giannis' guidance. I know.

Gianni, what do you think about that, Gianni? Which is what he's out there doing right now. Yeah. So, can you get out that thing you had

that you were showing me what you need to do if you want to stay alive a long time? Oh, yeah. The CDC thing? Yeah. I'll pull it up. Dr. Lazar is going to walk you through what you need to stay alive a long time. Oh, yeah. This is good stuff. The CDC thing? Yeah. I'll pull it up.

Dr. Lazar is going to walk you through what you need to do. You want to stay alive? An American male. Hit us with an American male. Okay. All right. An American male wants to live a long time.

Yeah. So if you go to the CDC website, it's a wonderful governmental organization. They give a lot of stats. They track causes of death across the country. And so- Can I interrupt real quick? Sure.

Yeah. Would it make sense that the, that the antibiotic I'm on plus the 800 milligram ibuprofens are giving me a lot of gastrointestinal upset? For sure. So ibuprofen. Can I quit the antibiotic? Depends what you're on. I can't remember. It's like a couple of words, a couple of letters and words.

Probably. Yeah. Okay. Keep in mind, this room is not as well ventilated as it used to be. It's not like that, man. It's different. Okay.

So, so a lot of times, so antibiotics can cause a lot of GI distress. So upset stomach or diarrhea, about one in five people get diarrhea with taking antibiotics. So I never had this before, but it's, it's not fun.

Not a lot of, um, not a lot of great evidence, but eating yogurt every day or taking probiotics. They told me to do that. Could prevent diarrhea. Is it a cox? If I quit the ibuprofen, which I'm thinking about doing anyway, is that going to help or is it the antibiotic that's doing it?

It could be a combo of both because ibuprofen has side effects. And it not only stops bad inflammation, but it can also stop, there's such a thing as good inflammation, which is in the same pathway. It helps make mucus in your stomach to help protect your stomach from the acid the stomach produces. And so it inhibits that as well. So you can see people who come in and chronically take ibuprofen and give themselves a stomach ulcer. So I would recommend cutting your dose back to 400 or 600 milligrams because 800 is- I'm done with the ibuprofen.

You can just- But I got four more days of this antibiotic but i want to quit now yeah it's generally recommended that you continue them till the full course is done because you don't want to leave the the resistant bacteria sitting there in your skull there well i'm taking the antibiotic prophylactically i don't have an infection oh no i did have an infection yeah i'd probably take i cut my tooth out this is so i have a friend who i like very much a guy that that I'm, I'm, we're going to go, we're hunting together soon, deer hunting.

And he's a urologist and he says a lot of times. You guys bring tourniquets? I'm going to bring, I got one in my little camp. Yeah, for sure. So he, he often says he's urologist. He deals with a lot of like 60 year olds that don't want their prostate operated on. And he says, you know, his line is, we don't have to do anything, but we should. And it just leaves it that and lets it hang.

And so you don't have to do anything, but what, you know, but you should. And what I would do is probably finish them. Take Tylenol instead. Give your stumps a little bit of an ease. Yeah. One of my favorite parts about this tooth process, hold what y'all was going to ask about staying alive a long time, is They came out and presented the price, the cost of this whole thing to me

in an a la carte fashion. Dude. As though I would get halfway into this and quit. Yeah. But it costs this much for this part. If you're buying a car and you're like, well, the tires are this. Dude, they-

The engine's this. The- The doors are this. The dentistry- I'll take the whole damn thing. The dentistry operation, they've got and essentially

it's a different kind of business. I mean they have an infinite demand and they have essentially said we're taking cash and so

it's a very expensive endeavor to get major dental work done. Yeah and insurance is a bummer on dental. For sure and so all the more reason to brush your teeth

and floss. You know you don't want those problems. You know it's prevention is worth a pound of cure. Okay. Help everyone stay alive a long time. All right. So, uh, first thing, don't smoke. Uh, second thing, wear your seatbelt, um, stay fit and active. If you look at these, um, CDC websites, you can see the leading causes of death. And so for people our age in the, you know, mid thirties, forties, the number one thing that used to

kill all of us between like five and 45 was motor vehicle collisions. So unintentional injuries. But in the most recent decade, that has been overtaken by opioid overdoses. How could that possibly be true? It's insane, man. It's an epidemic for a reason. And it's an unfortunate, there's some interesting podcasts you can listen to. It's how that came about, and it is a tragedy. More people in our age demographic – well, I just left it. No, I'm 45.

More people in our age demographic are dying from getting too hopped up on painkillers than are dying from getting in car crashes. Yep. It's insane. I was on those things a couple of days ago. So the rates of addiction can, you know, some people have very addictive personalities. And so being on these pills for, I've read everywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months and you'll be physically addicted to them. And it's not, so being physically addicted is different than the mental addiction. So you will go through withdrawals if you stop taking them. I took a tablet twice.

No. Yeah, you're fine. Well, no. And I was like very much opposed to taking it another time. Yeah. Because I was like, wow, did I sleep good? Yeah. So I'm like, eh, it's a slippery slope, man.

Dude, I know people that have had dental. And so I think part of the problem too is that like we just didn't up until the last decade or five years, we just don't get taught how to treat acute or chronic pain in medical school. They don't teach you that. And now there's courses where you learn how to do it. And our residents, we spend a lot of time saying this is what we typically give for this because a lot of times you would just see one do one. You just do what your mentor did and you'd give somebody for a knee surgery, give them 60 Norco or 60 Percocet because you don't want them to have to call you because they're in a lot of pain. So you give them extra, right? So then they have 40 Percocets sitting in their closet and then their grandkid comes over and steals those and then goes to a party. And

you know, it's just a multifaceted epidemic. Um, and the healthcare industry is trying to correct that. And I think that, you know, there's, there's blame that can be thrown around everywhere, but I think we're, we're trying to correct it. Have you seen the documentary? I am trying to break your heart. I have not.

I will look it up though. It's about a musician, but there's a little bit in there about Percocet. Yeah. It's, it's. He likes the way it makes music sound. Yeah, man. Everybody's looking for a drug. I mean, whether you're filling it with McDonald's or alcohol or cigarettes or

religion or whatever, everybody's looking to try to fill some sort of void in their life and process those emotions. And we see lots of unhealthy coping mechanisms, but there's plenty of healthy ones. And if you struggle with something like that, not only there's a whole armamentarium of people that are willing and ready to help at all hours of the day, social workers, primary care doctors, emergency, you know, we're, these people went into this for this reason. And it's a big, you know, yeah, a lot of valuable people that, that have these struggle with these problems, you know? So, So it used to be that if you want to stay alive between the ages of whatever and 45, you didn't want to get in a car crash. So we don't want to-

Now you don't want to get in a car crash and you don't want to get hooked on opioids. Yeah. So wear your seatbelt, don't get hooked on pills, right? And then what comes next? Then what's going to kill you? Then unfortunately you see a uptick of malignant neoplasms or cancer in the middle ages, like 50 to 65. That's what gets you there.

That and that. So that's like, basically that's kind of, that's behavioral. You know, if you're smoking a lot, if you smoke or you, you are obese, it increases your risk of cancer if you're obese. Cause fat is, you know, produces hormones that your body gets exposed to. So it can be lifestyle choices that expose you to that, or it could be just a bad genetic draw. And so being somewhat lucky in life is, you know, nothing you can do about that. So cars kill you, then your genes kill you. And then, and then it's cardio.

I just worked up a little chunk of bone. Yep. I'm actually grinding it up right now with my teeth. I think you'll be okay. You're good. No, not my own. Some other dudes. I hear that.

And then after that, it's cardiovascular disease, which the only way to really, so some of that is genetic. At what age is that going to kill you? Like 65 plus. I mean, we see, it depends. You know, we see people who are 35 who use cocaine or smoke a lot, who have bad family history, who get heart attacks. And you told me I probably don't need to worry about dying from that.

So, because you're so active, I mean, you know, I don't think people realize the, so everybody knows that smoking is bad for your lungs, but I don't think people realize that smoking is bad for the vessels around your heart. They harden early. Oh. And so that's, I think people don't realize how that can affect you. Yanni used to smoke. Yeah, I hear he used to chew too.

It's. What do you think about that, Yanni? I don't leave home without it. Oh, God. So after the cardiovascular disease, then it's- Fallen, you're saying? Yeah, I think it's fallen. Yeah, it's falling.

Someone told me recently that once you hit a certain age and you break your hip, you're dead within a month. Yeah. Cause of all the comorbidities that come with it. So it's kind of like sharks, right? So, or fish, you know, they stop morbidity. Yeah. It was something like nine. I can't remember what it was, some staggering thing. Like once you're 78 or 75 and you break your hip, you have a 90% chance of being dead in a month or something. And it's really scary. Cause you see, you'd see these 80 year old hip, you have a 90% chance of being dead in a month or something? And it's really scary because you see these 80-year-old young, you know, 80-year-old ladies come in

who, you know, they break their hip and they don't realize how this is like one of the last notches sometimes. You know, it's really profound because if you stop moving... And you're like, they come in and you're like,

statistically, you're done. But you're not saying that. I mean, you're saying like, we're going to get you fixed up. We're going to try the best we can. And I don't think they realize how serious something like that is. You don't say 90% chance you're done. No, no mean, you're saying like, we're going to get you fixed up. We're going to try the best we can. And I don't think they realize how serious something like that is. You don't say 90% chance you're done. No, no, no, no. Yeah, we don't. That's going back to the how you want your grandma treated. That's not a good, good approach. But I think, so people

don't realize how a body in motion stays in motion. And I think it's not only for your brain, if you're continually using your brain, but also your body. And everybody was stressing like, oh, you got to run all the time and cardiovascular fitness. But really, my wife could attest to this too, because she's a doctor. We see strength as a big issue. Older people, they just can't stand up out of a chair. You can't get up and go. And the more sedentary you become, the less your blood flows, the more you eat, the more... Just like a shark in water, you got to stay moving all the time. Whatever it is, yoga is terrific.

Strength training and some cardiovascular is the way to stay. That's what I plan on doing from what I've seen. So wear your seatbelt. Don't get hooked on opioids. Yep. Have good genes. Yep. Stay active. Correct.

Don't smoke. Don't smoke. That's the, and then eat, eat things that spoil, right? You won't want, like you're talking the other day, like eat things that spoil. You're talking about the brown food,

right? You can watch a time-lapse video of some fast food, sit out in the woods and it looks the same three weeks later than it does. Still tastes great. I bet it does. I bet it does. It tastes like salt and fat. It's preservatives,

right? Yeah. So. I was trying to explain my, and I don't adhere to this in a strict fashion, but I was trying to explain my diet. You're there, we're having an argument about fad diets. Well, I was marveling at how fad diets, they only die when they get replaced. Yeah.

Are you? There's never a period of no fad diet. Yeah. There's like a fad diet lives. It's like when you're a king. Yeah. There's all, like a fad diet lives. It's like, it's like when you're a king. Yeah. In the old days.

Like a king or an emperor lives until it gets killed by an up and coming king or emperor. And fad diets only get, fad diets only get killed by a new replacement. There's never like,

we never take a year off of fad diets. Yeah, man. So the reason there, the reason there's more and more diets coming around, I mean, if there was one diet that worked for everybody, then that's what people would do, you know, but the thing is, it's all about calories in calories out, right? So you have to burn more calories than you put in, in order to burn fat. In order to do that,

you have to exercise, which is the hardest part. People don't, can't or won't, or they're stressed or they work a ton i got kids i know how hard it is to fit in working out i mean it's ridiculous so so the diet i'm trying to construct is this are you in ketosis sorry to interject but are you in ketosis yet because that's the big one now you gotta get in ketosis i don't follow but i can tell you what my diet is sure yeah that it should look like it was chopped out of a fish or animal, meaning you're looking at it. Yeah. And you can tell that it was chopped out of a fish or an animal.

Mm-hmm. Or it looks like it grew out of the dirt. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So they talk- That's a diet. For sure. That's not even a fad diet.

That's just a diet. You're talking about whole eating, right? You're talking about- I don't know what I'm talking about. Talking about look and that's it. That's like- I don't want anybody interpreting it. So it's like if you- What do you think, right? You're talking about- I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about look, and that's it. I don't want anybody interpreting it. So it's like if you- What do you think, Cal, you like it?

I'm just envisioning all the things you've excluded from your diet. Most of it can just only be found at fancy restaurants, but- Sure. No, it's a hype. I'm not going to do it. I'm just saying I feel like that's when I feel best. The real food diet. The most time when I'm like, when I lay out my kids' dinner at night,

I'm most happy when I look and be like, eh, it looks like stuff that you chopped out of animals and grew out of the dirt. Yeah, I mean. It's probably good for them. So I often tell patients in the simplest terms, just eat around the perimeter of the grocery store. Everything that's on the outside,

don't go in the middle. My doctor. Don't go in the middle. Go on the outside. That's awesome. I've heard it before. My doctor told me that. Stay away from the middle aisle.

The frozen stuff, the processed stuff. You eat what God and nature made, not what man made. Just go laugh at the grocery store. I get the frozen veggies because I just. Well, yeah. That looks like it grew out of the dirt. For sure. I mean, I'm certainly no saint.

I love potato chips, but I try. It doesn't look like it grew out of the dirt. No, they're bad for you. They're not good. But unless you get the kind, like Pringles. That looks like a leaf. Yeah. It came out of a machine.

Let's get a concluder from Yanni. I have a good looking ant. Thanks, Yanni. Kel? You got to come back man we've we've burned up a lot of time we didn't even get into

Lyme's disease yeah we covered that with the we had an epidemiologist for that yeah I know we're trying to do

a one two punch we had like an infectious disease guy now we're trying to have an injury guy yeah so I think that's super relevant

I mean listening to your story about your experience with Lyme I mean that was fascinating to hear about your elbows went numb and what not that's that's super relevant. I mean, listening to your story about your experience with Lyme, I mean, that was fascinating to hear that about your elbows went numb and whatnot. That kind of stuff is, I mean, we don't fully understand how the body works and that is a

very squirrely disease. I don't, it's crazy. That's a great word for it. Squirrely. Yeah. Very scary too. Kelly, got any concluders? You a tourniquet man? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you gotta make, like I said, I just feel like like i go back and just start a little smarter and a little safer instead of the trial and error existence i've led uh because

it's just harder now because like i said every time i look back if somebody's like well you know you shouldn't do that oh all the dumb stuff you do all the time yeah not you not you but people i'm like god i'm so much better at than i was 10 years ago i'm so much safer than i was i think about this stuff so much more um can i tell you quickie yeah we grew up next to dude they're down the road from a dude uh dan morgan and mike morgan two brothers very different brothers but one of them fixed up an old snowmobile. I can't remember what happened. He had a problem where he wound up that he would take a mason jar and fill it full of gas.

Perfect. I'm not joking. He had a mason jar full of gas with a lid on it, a ball cap on it. Not a ball cap like a baseball cap, but a ball brand cap and a hole in it. He would fill that jar full of gas and carry it between his legs with the fuel line going into the jar of gas. Come on. That was his fuel tank between his legs.

Oh. Ugh. And that barely warranted comment. We're going on. So you do stupid stuff. Yeah. But in regards to the opioids, you know, my grandma just passed away here at the end of the summer. Sorry to hear that, by the way.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, she had a great run. Hard-headed old gal. How old was she? 86, I think. Yeah. Yeah. hard-headed old gal how old was she 86 i think yeah yeah um but she was like vehemently anti uh drugs and she would you know a scientologist no just like, she was, she would literally scream at the doctor and say, you're not going to turn me into a goddamn drug addict. Right, yeah.

Oh, like that. Yeah. Take this cholesterol pill. Yeah. Okay, lady, I'm tired. Yeah, I mean, she was like, and if she felt, because she had to have surgeries and stuff, and if she felt like at all doped up, she'd be like, what are you giving me? And just, and I mean, and that's, that's the way she expired. Like she, she was with it and fought that stuff until, you know, she, she basically like went into a pain fog and then the family got to step in and be like, okay, go ahead, dope her up.

Yeah. So we can, yeah. Yeah. It was, I mean, it was amazing. It's good to, applaudable in the sense that it's good to ask what people are giving you. Even if you're in that environment, it's nice to ask and say, Hey, take some ownership and be

like, what are you doing to me? Don't just take everything at face value, you know? But it's an odd thing, like being on the outside, right? We're like, take the pills. I know. Yeah.

We're not trying to hurt you. Brody, you got anything to wrap up? Yeah. I just want to thank Alan because- Adam. Alan. Alan. Was I saying Adam earlier?

No, you're saying Alan. No. I was going to be a Michael, but settle on Alan. Yeah, Alan. No, I just want to thank you because- I didn't say Adam. That's good. No, you did not.

I feel like I could have made that mistake. We could have called you out on it. Dr. Lazara. Yeah. But I've gotten kind of complacent about what I was carrying around in my medical kit and just kind of throwing it in there in the bottom of the pack. Yeah. You know, just, I'm like, ah, it's there. But now I'm going to like get a little more serious about looking at it and what's in there and checking it frequently and things like that.

Oh, I've been thinking this whole thing. I'm like, this weekend, I got to make a trip to the store here before I hit the road. Yeah. Because like stuff goes bad or gets wet or, you know, whatever. And people definitely, people definitely love, love gear stuff. And this is a valuable way to spend some time and a little bit, it can go a long way, I think. But my second thing was when, when we're talking about how to live to be an old age, something you pointed out that we didn't touch on, and I'm not condoning drinking or being mean

to people, but you said angry alcoholics, they can go a long time. Yeah. So sometimes we just see people that are able to withstand, some people smoke for five years and they end up with COPD. Some people smoke till they're 95 and have no breathing problems. So it's, it's a lot of it's genetic or you see people who, who treat their bodies like a playground and, and live to old age. And, but you said being means like being a little means a good thing, you think? I, you know, in reference to the fact that some of the middle-aged people I see who end up being diagnosed with cancer, unfortunately, it's always, it's a, it's a part of our gallows humor. You know, they're just so nice. You know, why would that happen to that person who's like, uh, you know, a pastor with three kids and super

nice and great guy. And he's got pancreatic cancer for no freaking reason, you know, and it's just this ironic, horrible thing that you got my grandma throwing stuff at you and accusing you. Sure. He lives in your 90, you know? So, um, it's a joke that at you and accusing you of stuff yeah there you go she lives in your 90 you know so um it's a joke that you know you have a little bit of a mean streak but yeah you can you know uh take it out on a tree stump or something like that when i was at the dentist the other day i couldn't see her but there was an old an old lady in the stall next to me wherever they call those things and i heard her like he's like greeting her and all she has to say to him she's like you're gonna wear gloves and a mask yeah yeah yeah yeah tell her you want to do he's like yeah yeah you're correct yes i'm going to it's good to advocate for yourself we can all do it

politely that's for sure all right uh you got any final and you're gonna have to come back on man love to love to you know who we never give a final thought to? Yanni. No Phil the engineer never gets to say anything. No one cares.

The handsome devil. I appreciate that. I think the reason most people don't care is because I don't have a whole lot to bring to the table.

Yeah. I don't care less what Phil thinks. But yeah I just want to thank you for That's about enough Phil. Rap roll Phil.

We've heard enough. No, let's hear it, Phil, now that you got started. Yeah, no, I mean, I was kind of nervous when that, during the class today, that slide popped up that said, you know, they're warning disturbing images coming up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think when I, I think most humans, their natural inclination is to kind of push stuff like horrible injuries out of their heads and like because it just it's a massive reminder that we're all just sacks of goo yeah absolutely and like you know one horrible thing could happen and all the goo could spill out and we could be dead but i think it's really important to yeah at least learn the basics of how to keep

the goo in yeah um so yeah thanks for coming in you should have him comment more often it's pretty good it's pretty good young father he's got children good i used to think he's some kind Keep the goo in. Yeah. So, yeah, thanks for coming in. You should have him comment more often. No, I think I'm on my start. That's pretty good. Young father. He's got children. Good. I used to think he was some kind of playboy. Then I realized he's got kids.

Yeah. Keeps quiet about them. Yeah. Not very proud of them, apparently. Lovely, lovely children. There you go. What, do you got any concluders? I would just say, you know, to all of the first responders and emergency staff nurses, everybody who's out there who's standing on the wall in the middle of the night taking care of people, thank you to everybody that does that.

And for all of us hunters out there, please protect yourself, protect your family, because like Phil was saying, it only takes one misstep and we're dealing with a pretty life-changing situation. So an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So be safe. Yeah. When you're bragging up how your pack only weighs three pounds and you're watching your buddy bleed out inside of the hill. Yeah. You need to, you want to live to hunt another day. You could have had a three pound, three ounce pack and had your tourniquet. Yeah. Very good. That's a great point. So, and thank you guys. And I think also too, what you guys do, what your vision is producing both for nature conservation and hunting is extra positive. And I think we'll

live on for a long time. So I think you guys are doing something really special here. So. Thank you, man. Thank you guys. Yeah. I look forward to working with you on our secret project. Secret double, triple. Thanks guys. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now, the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land,

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