The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 226: The Life and Times of the Antler Man

Episode Date: June 22, 2020

Steven Rinella talks with Jim Phillips, Corinne Schneider, Spencer Neuharth, Phil Taylor, and Janis Putelis.Topics discussed: never paying for an antler; Steve as an incidental shed hunter; Jim refusing to insure his horn shed; an important premonition; getting poked; guessing at the value of 16,000 antlers; a little man living in your body; zigs and zags; not counting brow tines; having a 400-ton rock collection; donating antlers for a sting operation; not getting with the program; enjoying the work; a lion hunter who also golfs; the arrogance of mullein weed; how Steve made his kids mule deer antler marshmallow sticks; far vs. close lookers; all the energy it takes; and more.  Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are

without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwear-less. Welcome to the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. We hunt the Meat Eater Podcast. You can't predict anything. Presented by OnX Hunt, creators of the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters.

Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google Play Store. Know where you stand with OnX. What you're about to hear is a visit. Me, the Latvian Eagle, Spencer Newhorse, the Flip-Flop Flesher, our beloved producer Corinne Schneider, visiting a man in Three Forks, Montana known as the Antler Man. He has a collection of 16,000 antlers arranged in a barn with an artist's eye for symmetry and design combined with a genius sense for what's weird and interesting. The guy has never bought an antler. He found most of the stuff in the collection himself or traded antlers that he found for peculiar oddities

that others had that he just had to have for his own. Walking into the door literally changed my life. It changed how I think about art, obsession, big bucks, wildlife, and compulsion. So come along with us. Walk into Jim's Horn House in Three Forks, Montana. Get your life changed. Who runs this whole garden program here? I do the weeding and watering and then told not to whine.

That's a raspberry patch? Yeah, it's not going to have any raspberries. And no offense, you don't have deer come in here and have at it? We try to share. Seriously. In the garden, I try to raise enough for the rabbits that come in. And if the deer come in, they really don't. If they can select, they don't bother much.

Jim, do you have a hunting background? Yeah, I mean, I was born and raised. Because that's how you got interested in antlers is hunting, right? I mean, most people, that's how it because that's how you got interested in antlers is hunting right i mean most people that's how i got interested in antlers out of boredom 16 000 i'm counting were you shed hunting this year or you retired from shed hunting oh lord no this year i had some problems with my feet and i didn't get out near as much as I wanted to. But, yeah, I was out. But I'm the last guy out.

I don't go in the snow, and I don't go in the cold. Because why? Because I don't like the snow, and I don't like the cold. And I'm afraid if there's snow on the ground, I'm going to miss something. Yeah. And I realize. So you're not out there chasing elk around with one antler trying to get them to knock the other one off.

Oh, yeah. Oh, you do do that? No, but I've heard about that. I don't go to the game ranges. That's not what it is for me. And when I was in high school, I had a friend, and him and I would do a little bit together. And then my brother and I went one time

and we had to go to Colorado because he didn't want to show me where his person, more in Montana, and I didn't want to show him where my spots were. So we went to Colorado and shed hunted for a week. He collected antlers for, he made a living out of it for three years. But if he found anything odd or he'd keep it to the side.

And then for my birthday or Christmas, he'd give me an odd antler that he picked up. And then I sold the ones to help put my daughters through college. Yeah, I was reading about that. You sold 2,000 antlers to put your kids through college. 1,500 deer and probably around 700 elk for our sheds to help them. How old are you now? i'll be 72 in july looking good for 72 man not as good as i'd like to really what line of work were you in you know i was as a professional or a career person? I was a plant control operator. I sat in front of a...

Years ago, I sat in front of a huge panel that had all the directions of where the talc was ground and all that stuff. I got you. And then the last 20 years, I spent sitting in front of a screen and did the same thing. So, no, I didn't do anything too physical. Built up a lot of energy sitting there.

Well, not only that, I worked shift work, which was wonderful. I worked straight graveyard for two years, and then I'd get off at eight o'clock in the morning and I'd drive out on the hills and go shed hunting. All right, let's continue our tour. We can go in the horn shed if you... Yeah? Yeah.

Back this way? Yeah, the stuff... You call it the horn shed? Well, I can explain that. I had my brother-in-law, my wife's brother, he was an alcoholic and he finally died of alcoholism, but he made me a sign to hang on the door of the shed and you'll see when you go in. It said horn shed and personally I think the sign is tacky and I think the name is tacky. I don't think it's tacky. My brother-in-law made it for me. What did he drink hard liquor hard liquor i don't drink never have never smoked never

oh horn house i remember when those photos were in beagle magazine yeah man it's really something we're lucky lucky moment you know i mean for a photographer but they both fell off what we're looking at for there's a photo it's like uh it's three photos a sequence of photos and there's in one photo there's two bull elk crossing from right to left what are they like i mean like mature bulls and then one of the bulls, there's an image, a photograph, right? Yeah. I remember, yeah. Anyways, there's a photograph where its antlers fall off simultaneously

and both of them are caught mid-air falling off of his head. They're so close together that one's like passing past his right eye and one's passing past his left jaw. And then the final photo is the antlered bull standing there next to these two sheds laying on the ground. If I remember correctly, I think the photographer said that the bull actually spun a 360 to shake him off. Oh, really?

Okay. I wouldn't be surprised. Because he's in kind of a weird position, like he's, you know, wanting to do it. I've seen a whitetail pick up a hind leg and kick an antler off. No, really? That's the only time I've ever. And his other one, he didn't seem to worry about the other one. Have you ever found a shed in your yard here

from one of the golf course here too i've got a picture of the buck with his horns and i got a picture of the buck after he shed and then it dawned on me they might be out in my yard by the pond because he was just a little he had three point one side and a weird one on the other did you keep in a special place I've got those in my house. Those don't even go into the antler house. No. So do you have, do you have hours? Like do people just come off the street to come here?

Since it's been on the internet, I get a lot from Atlas Obscuria. Great big story. And they'll call ahead of time or email. I mean, I've got people telling me they're gonna come in August. And I say, just kind of give me a notice three or four days ahead and I'll see if I'm gonna be home. But of course this year,

I'm sure I'm not gonna get as many. So you don't have like a sign that says, come on, come all. Oh Christ no. And then when people come, it's not like an admission charge. No, I've never. The only thing I promote is my books.

Collection of short stories, walking the trail system here. I walked at six miles this morning. All profits go to the Headwaters Trail System. What I did was write short stories about walking the trail, and there's everything in here, from a serial killer that was our landlord, to the big sky with the mountain men,

with the 59 earthquake that we were almost in. But just, there's a lot of stories. And you wrote this, published it, and sell these to raise money for the trail. I've almost got enough for a third book. What do you mean you've almost got enough? Enough material.

For a third book. You might find yourself in one of them stories. Can we go into the horn house? You can open the door. All you have to do is push on it the lights are on Holy shit, really? Wow, that is incredible Wow, I mean like you've seen the pictures. You're not prepared.

No. That is unbelievable. I actually thought it would take more space to house 16,000 antlers. Look how densely packed these things are. Man, these are all fresh ants. This is incredible. You know what I didn't expect? It's like the smell.

It's like a really satisfying antler smell. Seriously? No, I think so. This is unbelievable. Hey, Phil the Engineer here. You have to see this room for yourselves. Go to Jim's own gallery on his website at antlerman.com, the MeatEater Instagram account,

Steve's Instagram account where he posted a walkthrough video,, the MeatEater Instagram account, Steve's Instagram account, where he posted a walkthrough video, and the MeatEater Facebook page. I'm at a, help me out. I'm at a loss. We walked into a barn. What are the dimensions of this place?

It's 30 by, 64 by 30. 64 long, 30 wide. Okay, so there's a center island, runs the length of the barn, and it is encased. How long's a center island runs the length of the barn and it is

encased how long is the center island 40 something long encased in antlers and then the whole periphery around it is like a bench runs around the whole room also encased in antlers with a lot of like nice specimens put out for display and then the walls ceilings beams but it's not like randomly thrown in it's it's uh like with a tremendous sense of balance and design and style and and just a sort of of real native sense of aesthetic alignment. I've never seen anything like this. Do you got a sprinkler system in here and stuff? No, I don't have it insured or any of that crap.

We tore down an old grocery store uptown and then we tore down an old hotel at Trident. But this is the flooring out of the buildings, the walls, this wood is out of those buildings and they're all 16 foot long and the walls double thick besides the two befores on the other side are a foot apart. That way I could put antlers anywhere I wanted to. And you built the shed for this purpose?

Yeah, that's a long story too. My wife started out wanting to remodel the kitchen and I got a garage and she wanted to do the windows in the house over again. And I said, I've never had a nice horn shed. And so it started out from remodeling the kitchen. So how many did you have when you built it? Like how many do you have now? When I built it I probably had 13,000, 14,000.

What year did you build this thing? I mean I keep a record. This building's probably 16 years old, maybe 17 years old. So yeah I probably only had about 12,000. And you don't buy antlers? That's the difference between my collection and anybody else's. And that's what makes it unique. And that's why I've been married for 52 years. That's why you've been married?

Yeah, because I've never spent any money on horns or I probably wouldn't be. Oh, I'm with you. But I've never bought a horn. I've sold antlers and I've traded antler pound for pound to get some of the weird stuff, but I've never bought an antler. Anybody can have a shed full of horns,

all you need is enough money. And I've been to the auction in Jackson Hole and there's people that have that kind of money. And they bought their shed full of? And they bought, they buy their antlers, but I've never bought an antler. I usually start people out over here. Wait, real quick, what happened to this guy?

I have no idea. Oh, so it grew around a, Yeah. grew around a something. Now this bull, I know what happened to him. Just a regular six point, but it had hung itself. He was feeding around the edge of a cliff and there must have been a little bit of green grass coming up and he was feeding on that and he got, he slipped

and when he slipped his front legs caught in a crevice like this and his hind legs were about that far from reaching the ground. And the coyotes ate him from the bottom up. And that's how I find, of course, I didn't have a cell phone or anything like that. So I didn't. You weren't able to document it. No. How many of these animals were killed by hunters

and how many were, you know what I mean? I know the sheds are sheds, but I mean, the ones that are the complete skulls and stuff, is it mostly stuff you found dead? No, back in the 70s and early 80s, we had a dump ground route during hunting season. A dump ground? Route, yeah, we'd go to Whitehall, Silver Star,

Sheridan, Alter, over the hill to Ennis, down to Harrison, over to Pony, and back to Three Forks. And people just throw the antlers away. And that's where I pick up the- Just go to community dumps. Yeah. Besides, find them up in the hills. And like I said, some of them I've traded for

over the years. I want to ask some bad questions. Like the kind of questions that every person who comes here and asks you- Go ahead. That you've probably heard. your favorite what's your biggest and what's your smallest okay here's my favorite i carry it with me 24 7 it's in your pocket that's a shed antler huh so that answers two questions smallest favorite why do you like that one the most? Because it's small. And I can put it on my keychain.

And it's a shed. And if you're peeing in the bushes, you can find one of them. That's how I found that one. It's been worn smooth by time, man. I put it in my pocket. So it's not the biggest. I mean, I've got huge elk horns here. This is a shed set.

I was reading an article where you were saying that you can't appreciate how big some of the antlers are because they're on a giant wall full of a bunch of antlers. Yeah, I mean, you don't realize how big. No, then you got to actually look at them. Some of these mule deer sets are. And I've only got one in the whole place that makes a Boone and Crockett. And I don't measure anything, but I happen to measure that one because it's the biggest one I have. Which one in the whole place that makes a Boone and Crockett. And I don't measure anything,

but I happen to measure that one because it's the biggest one I have. Which one are you talking about? It's down the line. There's one like up there, it's got the bullet hole. Bullet's probably still in it. This one I rescued. A guy out of town here called me up and he says,

I got a big set of Elkhorns out there and if you want them, you can have them. But you better come and get them because my kids are cutting the points off for knife hands. They cut the one off the back there, they cut the top off that one and they almost cut through this one and they beat on the skull with an axe. Oh you did not?

But I did rescue it. This one I found and this one I found in the same area a week later. Have you ever found a velvet shed? Uh, down the line. Hold on a minute, so you did, but you didn't do the biggest. What's the biggest? We're getting there. Oh.

Favorite and smallest are the keychain. These are all... These are giant mule deer sheds. I mean, you just gotta like look, you can't really help, but you gotta to pick one up to look at it, or else it just gets lost in the crowd. Yeah, I guess touching and picking them up is okay here? Boy, hell yes. Now, do you know- Most guys would be satisfied with that.

It's a fairly decent four-point buck. Yeah. Okay. You put it next to something like this, then you can appreciate how big these are. And these are all big or have lots of points. Do you know roughly what percentage by species is broken down in here? I know exactly how many whitetail I have that are three points with a brow point and how many are four points.

I know exactly how many mule deer I have but same way and whether they're big or freak or what but do most these do you remember them look at that did you find that yeah that and this is his other this is his oh it's a match no oh no. That's the same year, but I do have his Shed sets over here What's the most consecutive years you've picked up the same box antlers? It's down the line here. Oh Never found within 100 yards of one another. I bet you everybody tells you this.

I'm just going to tell you that you, like, not for the show or anything, I think you are making a huge mistake to not have a sprinkler system and an alarm system and shit. That's the other thing. People ask me, what's going to happen to all this when you die? I'm going to give a shit. I'll be dead. Seriously. I hope you change your mind, man.

Oh, don't worry, Mike. The only thing I've told my daughter is I hope they don't turn into chandeliers and dog chews and soul shakers. This is a cool find here, yeah. That'd be the dead of the time. So he'd been laying for a long time. He was laying in my freaking brother's flower bed

until I talked him out of it for about 10 years. He said, a friend gave me that, and I told him I wouldn't give it away. Finally, he gave it to me. Besides going to the right spot, okay, is there a thing that you think makes a good antler hunter? Besides the area. Are you seeing the ground in a way that... Do you feel that you're seeing things that other people are walking past?

Okay. I looked you up a little bit. You've got this 80-20 theory. Yeah. Okay. I'm a 20. I'm trying to think about my 80-20 theories 80-20 you on where to look for sheds no that's not me that's Mark

Kenyon but oh that's our guys what's in your bra yeah yeah okay and the 80-20 thing is that 80% of the sheds are found on 20% of the earth I understand how that works oh yeah he telling our podcast people. Oh yeah. He's talking to that microphone. All right. So yeah, Mark Canyon, who likes to shed, he likes to shed. I'm an incidental shed hunter. I pick them up when I'm doing other stuff. Yeah. I mean, during hunting season, I usually don't get to shoot anything because I'm packing too many freaking horns. Let's say you had three things. You had the sort of meta area, right? Like the region, like such and such valley, okay? The meta area.

Then you had the sort of micro area, meaning that hillside or that brush patch. But once you're in the micro area, like the specific search area, do you feel that there's something that sets you apart with how you look at the ground like do you see things that you feel that a hundred people have looked at but they didn't notice two years ago i was walking into an area that i look for sheds on and i'm walking in on the trail and hunters go in there back and forth I'd been through it the year before coming

out this time I happen to go up a little bit above the trail like from here across to that and I'm walking along and I look down and there's this huge six-point elkhorn from last year it's laying tines down in the sagebrush all these people had walked within 10 feet of it and never saw it. Because it looked like a sagebrush log. Looked like a branch of a sagebrush and the tines were down.

Well, it turned white. I mean, it was a huge six point alcorn. Just happened to be laying. I had another incident not too many years ago. I'm walking another game trail and I'm walking along and I see these two little shed two points and I've been in through on this trail probably over 25, 30 times over the years and this little buck had shed his horns and I thought well that's cool so I reached down to pick him up here's this huge seven point deer that had probably been laying there for 40 years,

tines up in that sagebrush that I'd walked from me to you by and had never seen. I mean, and the other thing is I wouldn't have some of the freaks and some of the sets I do, but I've went into areas and I know, hell, there's been four or five guys ahead of me. But I'll crawl down into a four or five guys ahead of me. But I'll crawl down into a hole or a brush patch or down into a canyon and I might find an old buck or an old bull that's died. I'll go over and hunt the north sides on certain winters because if it's a light snowfall and they shed late, they're going to be on that side to stay cool.

I mean, to me it makes a lot of difference in the weather. So, like I said, by the time I go, all the south slopes and tops of ridges have been covered. Talking about seeing things you've looked at a hundred times. I got a friend out in Mile City who was a coyote hunter. He says his whole life he's been sitting against this same rock wall in this little kind of an indent in the rock wall calling coyotes. He comes in, he kind of backs in and sits down, calls coyotes and leaves his whole life.

He said one day he realized he got too old and he couldn't rise up like he normally does. So he had to spin around to put his hand to climb up the other way and spins around. There's a Ice Age Folsom point. He said, I've been sitting on that thing for 40 years. I never had to stick my face back in there to look. Those are some of the things that happen.

And what I find now that I'm older is I move slower. So I see more. Yeah. You can explain that to me and feel them. They're really light. Huh. Oh yeah, look at that.

Yeah, I mean a lot lighter than you would think they would. So I'm thinking he was in the velvet and never got... Something happened and they just kind of drooped and then they hardened up.

Yeah, it's like we're holding an antler, a deer antler that looks like, it looks, you know, it's kind of like what the antler deer antler it looks like it looks at it you know it's kind of like a what would have been a three point you know six point buck Eastern count but it looks like it just kind of one day melted started to melt and then stop melting and when you pick it up it's really weirdly light like it doesn't have the density and it's really weirdly light. Like it doesn't have the density.

Yeah, and it's like the tips melted away. This is the same buck five years on one side, three years on the other, same buck, five years on one side, four years on the other. So you found the same buck shed five years in a row. Look at them, man. How close were they to each other? They were in the same general area.

Did you find multiple ones in that guy you started? Did you find one one year, find one the next year, find one the next year? Pretty much. Yeah. Just kept going back. Yeah. He surprisingly didn't grow as much as you'd expect for looking at a buck's five years worth of... No, you expect them to grow just like this exponential growth year to year, but this thing is very similar.

If you look at that one on the back that has that little point down at the bottom, that's four years in a row, and he started getting big towards the end. This buck here, three years on both sides, he stayed virtually, this is a little bigger, but virtually the same. Yeah, did not change much. I mean, it's incredible that you have like an intimacy with a single animal. Yeah, we've got such a long period of time. And then a lot of people say, well, how do you know? And I can just by looking at them, I mean, it's obvious to me. And then this is genetics.

I found these on a ridge. 2.4 point. Same ridge. I found his sheds from the year before. No. 2.4 point. On the same ridge, I found these. Holy cow.

These are shed the same year these are. That's his offspring. Two point, four point. Really, all on the same ridge. Hey, folks. Exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness, do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join.

Our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps,

waypoints, and tracking. That's right. We're always talking about OnX here on the Meat Eater Podcast. Now you guys in the Great White North can be part of it, be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services handpicked by the OnX Hunt team.

Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com

slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the to the OnX Club, y'all. What question are we up to or to the moose? That's Steve.

Oh, no, you still got to show us the biggest. Oh, we haven't got to the biggest yet. These are all elk that broke their skulls and broke their antlers. Snapping off from fighting. How often do you find a drop or find a shed, get interested in it? What's the most energy you ever put into finding the match?

Like you just knew it had to be somewhere. Three years, and I to find the other one but couldn't find it yeah I mean I found a shed actually two years on a moose shed when I find a shed and I start making a circle like for me to you and then I just keep going out and I just keep going out and I just keep going out sometimes I find more sheds that way well what was the probably a little bit hard to answer what's the farthest you ever found the farthest distance that ever separated a matching set. I think the matching set that I knew were matching,

I would say on Egan Mountain probably all three miles. He covered that distance before he dropped his other one. Before he dropped his other one. Oh, wow. That bull there, got a thumb on this side. It's not broke. It's flat on the top There's a hole about that big around that goes down into a skull. You got a bullet hole? No, no, I think that's the way it grew

So one big nice thick heavy Five-point antler and then one thing like one antler the size of your thumb With a hole down through it If I pointed out some more mundane sheds or heads, how confident are you that you would know the source of it, where you found it, or when? Well just between you and me I can make up anything. You're not going to be able to know whether I'm telling you the truth or not. But how likely do you

think you'd actually know, though? Well, I mean, in here, under here, those are two points as thick as you can stack them on both sides, and you can pull one of them out, and I haven't got a freaking clue where it came from. But anything that's odd or different or

that I associate with a certain day or something, yes I can. Hold on, this whole stack is like right antler or left antler? Yeah, these are all shed sets. How many are in there? I don't know. Like there's hundreds of them in there. Yeah, those are all brown ones down there and the ones that are white here.

And actually, if you look at this long enough this side mirrors that side you'll find a bull or a buck over there and a similar one on this side. And you did all this is setting all this rock into the vertical poured concrete? Later on in the years when I find an Elkhorn that wasn't any good I'd cut the burr off and that's where all the burrs came from. Hold on, so you, this whole barn wall's matched, symmetrical? Yeah.

Oh, there's a lot of OCD in here. Do you feel like you have like a serious OCD problem? Well, my daughter does. And she's a special ed teacher, so. She thinks you do. Yeah. How much time do you spend in here now, Jim? I'll come in here once or twice a week,

and that's in the winter when there's nobody around. And then I'll have guys that come over and go through it just before hunting season, get jacked up, I guess. I don't know. Is this like an evolving display? Are you moving things around actively or not? That's further down the line. Okay.

No. I'm going to ask you a question, and your instinct is going to be to give me an answer that doesn't satisfy me. Okay. Okay. Why? Why? Why? You know, that's a million-dollar question.

Is there a why? Like, what is the why? Have you ever thought about it? No. It's a compulsion, an addiction. Yeah, all those things. Were you, at what age were you when the people around you? Thought I was weird? Yeah.

I was in high school. You started being weird in high school. Other guys were fixing up their fast cars and chasing girls. I was out in the freaking hills hiking around. And even when I was too young to drive, my mother would take me out here on the edge of town at these foothills right over here where the T is and drop me off and pick me up at the end of the day. Up to Gallatin, after we went, moved down, my dad bought some property across from Castle Rock. And I was 13 then, I think.

They would take me up the canyon and drop me off along the highway and I'd be gone for the day. Did you have a thing where you would lay in bed or wherever you think and be like, I'm going to make a thing and it'll end up looking like this? No. Okay. No. Okay. No. But I can tell you some weird stories about looking for sheds. And I hate to tell them because then people do think you're weird. No, go ahead.

I'll be walking through the hills, and I'll just be walking along, looking around, looking around. And I'll stop. And I'll think to myself, I'm missing something here. There's something I'm not seeing. And I'll pause, and I'll look around and stuff. And I'll stay there, and I'll even kind of look around, and I'll find a shed. You get a premonition.

I can tell you another one. I'm working graveyard. I'm at work. It's during my break. I kind of you another one. I'm working graveyard. I'm at work. It's during my break. I kinda doze off. I have this dream. I have this dream that there's this big power pole

and there's these two white, real nice, white tail sheds behind this power pole. So I don't think anything. I'm not riding my bike back and forth to work. It's about a mile. A year later, I have the same exact dream. That day I'm leaving work and I look out in the field and there's a big power line that goes through the field and there's a power pole there and it's in a dip. I walk over there and there's two white

tails. Shit, okay. Really? Yeah, that's no shit. You had the dream twice. Yeah, a year apart. Yeah, I can make it weird. Okay, this doesn't look any different than any of the rest of them. One more question about that. Does your wife, is she like amused by you? Is it inspiring to her? Is it, you know what I mean?

Does she pick up sheds? When we first got married, she realized that I collected sheds. Because even when I was going to business college and where we met in Boise, I'd go out of Boise and pick up sheds. But once we got married, she thought I went a lot. So she's thinking, man, he might have a girlfriend or something. So she went with me a few times. Just to see?

Yeah. He's just that nuts. He doesn't have a girlfriend. So, no, she doesn't go. This buck here, that's a three-inch point out of another buck stuck in a skull. Oh, are you kidding me?'re kidding me off look at that yeah so it's uh he's got a a skull was that found was that killed by a hunter or found dead i was found in a dump found in a dump i never even knew i had it till i put it up here it's kind of a spindly little buck he's got five five tines on one side four on the other but embedded in

his skull is a antler tine where he got jabbed poked in snapped off is it in the skull or just tucked under the hide in the skull punctured the skull but didn't kill him speaking of getting poked why is that buck purple there's a lot of sharp things in here have you ever sustained an injury from a shed antler? From me? Falling on antlers? I was walking one day, and I had a white tail in my hand with a nice brow point, and I slipped and fell and fell like that, jammed that brow tie into my hand.

And I've got a lot of scrapes and banged up some, but nothing. If you did decide to sell all these to people who wanted to make chandeliers and knives and stuff. I'd shoot myself first. But, like, have you ever figured what that dollar amount would be? No, don't care.

Don't care. You have any wild guess? I've been very, no, I've been extremely fortunate that I've had a steady job for 39 years and a good union wage. My wife was the controller at Trident at the cement plant for 25 years and she controlled the money for the plant. And so we had good income. So I, except to put the daughter through college, I've never had to depend on.

But wouldn't you like to know if it's like a hundred thousand dollars or a million dollars? No, because you're not going to make any difference. And that's one reason it's not insured because I don't know how they would do that how they would try to figure the value I mean Christ in the name of Jesus that's what they do for a living is figure out

values of things that don't exist what's that Lloyd's of London Lloyd's of London something like that they come out and whatever they do I'm not saying you need to insure it man but I just feel like you need to put a sprinkler system in. Now why is this little why is this little pair of uh spike antlers sitting next to these giant giant bucks? Just to show people there's a difference. Oh they wouldn't get they

gotta get this far through the tour and realize there's a difference. There's a shit set there this one here i found in a dump if you look at it these are turned actually wrong and then if you look at him here and here it looks like somebody grabbed it there and there and just twisted his antler when you say you used to do that dump loop so you would drive hundreds of miles just looking for the specific purpose of looking in dumps for antlers. To scrounge through the dump, yep. My three daughters can tell you horror stories about being parked at the Alder dump and having a picnic while their dad was down scrounging through the dump looking for antlers, yes. What other good stuff would you find in the dump besides antlers? No, antlers was, I found my daughter a pair of shoes one time.

Does she know that's where they came from? She doesn't know. Studies in the Yellowstone show that elk have started holding their antlers longer since wolves were introduced. Have you noticed around here that like elk shed later because they have to use them as weapons against wolves or haven't you noticed any difference?

I, like I said, I just think it depends a lot on nutrition in the winter. Yeah, I have a hard time with what you're saying, Spencer, because I feel like it takes thousands of years to drive that kind of evolutionary change, man. I didn't do the study. I'm telling you what i think it's montana state this is your little study you did no he published it on his

blog it's a peer-reviewed it's peer-reviewed because he had his cousin read it i guess it's possible but uh my cousin reviewed it but you haven't noticed no because wolves aren't a problem around here i mean there's a few wolves but people don't realize how many freaking deer and elk mountain lion kill that's right and how many mountain lions there are do you find a lot of heads that you that are covered up like mountain lion kills uh grizzly bears cover mountain lion, hang them up in a freaking tree. You found where mountain lions hung a deer in a tree? Oh, yeah. Huh.

Yep. This is the biggest? The heaviest mule deer, probably, yeah. Damn. Some porcupine gnawing on them. Yeah, and they've been laying there a year when I found them. That's something. That is really something.

Are you ever stunned where you find like a whitetail shed where it shouldn't be, or an elk shed where it shouldn't be? Three years ago, I was not too far out of town, and I was up in some cliffs. And like I said, I'm the last guy there, so I'm looking everywhere. And I get up in these cliffs and I think, you know, the way the winter was, maybe there'll be a big buck that shed his horns up in there.

So I'm crawling around in the cliffs to find this great big fresh moose horn. Oh, yeah. I'm a long ways from anywhere there should be a moose. And I looked for three days and i never found the other side we've had something similar hunting sheep doll sheep to find moose shed antlers so he's up there in the winter late winter but you're so far up like you're up in the glaciers there's no even willow around you were like how in the world like what was he doing you know they just go up up up up up it's hard to picture that he would even you know survive and on whitetail i mean i was in high school there was there was never any whitetail in this area i never saw a whitetail friend of mine

up the madison shot a whitet. I think I was a senior. But we never, whitetails never come in until the 70s. Around here. Have you ever seen another shed like this? Or is this the only one? That's cool. Oh, wow. What the hell happened to that? That's cut off a set.

Yeah, it's like a buck that, I don't know. It's like a four-point describe that Spencer four-point buck has another four-point bug growing out of its main beam after the g3 you familiar with what a human culisses it's like a little man that lives in your body it's like he's got I don't know they have a term for it in elk when you see that kind of like... What is it? It almost looks like flames coming off the back of a bull's antlers.

That's got a term? Yeah. I know what you're talking about. There's a term for it. Like a whole series of like... It looks like a moose's brow time points. Yeah, just... Yeah, but these are not short little bumps.

These are all three, four-inch tines. That seems so rare, there's probably not even a name for it. Look at that. You can just coin the term, whatever you want. I can just make something up. Yeah. It's like a rib cage coming off of it. Yeah.

Do you ever think about doing it? No, I don't think it's smart. I was going to give you a design tip. Where you make a separate building with just the real weird shit in it. So then you come in here, and you're like, whoa! And then you go in there, and it's all the weird stuff But that's probably would be a very good idea. I think it kind of ruin it like to mix them up. Oh There you go, yeah, I've been there

So here we're looking at a bullet. What else you got going on? You got to do a fence No, it's a telephone wire. Oh, he's got a phone wire? Oh, I see. Then he shed his antlers bound together by the phone wire. But if you look at it. Can I pick this up? Yeah.

Look at all the places that it's broke. So he got in that and wound and wound and wound and wound. Can you picture that, Seth? And finally broke free. And then, I mean, the antlers weren't any good. I passed it up a couple years in a row. What do you mean you passed it up? Well, because the antlers weren't any good.

Hold on a minute. You saw this and didn't want it? I said I passed it up a couple, and then it dawned on me that, you know, that's kind of neat. How often do you leave Sheds Lane? Well, if they're all chewed up, I don't. If I'm fairly close to the truck, I might drag one back and I can see it.

How would you see that and not think that that was like... It took me two years! To occur to you that you liked it? That it was unique. This is a bull that took me two years to find the other side. And I actually saw this bull and he was pure white. And you found the match. And this was his antlers.

Oh, and it didn't disappoint. And I saw him when he had his antlers. And then I found one and then a year later I finally found the other side. You've got to be the single person on this planet who has such a intimate relationship with this hundred kind of square mile area. Yep. And I tell everybody probably, oh, I don't know, 80 to 85% of my collection

come within a hundred mile radius of Three Forks. I've been to Colorado, I've been to the eastern part of the state, a little bit of Idaho, but most of them right around here. And we used to have the giant herds out of the Yellowstone and the Gallatin. I never did get over in Town Minor, the Livingston never did get over there.

There was too much around here. Everybody says, oh, you went to the park. I didn't have to go to the park. I've been along the edge of the park. The park came to you, yeah. I never, I mean, hell, I'll come down. And you want to see the biggest. Yes.

Oh, finally, Spencer. Holy shit. 10 points and 16 pounds. So that's a 10 point, 16 pound. I'm beat up right now. You could call that a double main beam, probably. Yeah. Oh.

16 pound antler. I mean, I read about these guys that are finding these 20-pound antlers, but I've found over 2,000 elk horns, and I don't have one that weighs 20 pounds. 16's the biggest. And maybe when it was fresh or something, it might have been. Oh, this is considered dry, yeah. Yeah. Might have been a pound or two more, but just never have.

Man, look at that. You'd think a kid would have been smart enough to look to the other side, wouldn't you? You found out when you were young? I was just so excited that I ran all the way back to the highway to show my dad when he come to pick me up. You ever catch a porcupine eating antler? I've got a friend that looks for antlers and he shoots every freaking porcupine he finds.

To save the antlers? And I've never. I talk, I went up in the trees, I talk to him. I don't have any animosity. There's enough antlers out there for this. My Elvin man. Do you use binoculars when you're shed hunting? No.

I do have a, and my brother, he's one of these guys who gets up on a knob and he's just glass and everything. And I don't, I have a spotting scope, a little monocular. If I see something, I'll look at it and see if that's what it is. But I don't glass. I zigzag. You zigzag?

I zigzag. How tight is your zig from your zag? It depends on what I'm finding. It can be three feet apart or it can be ten. So if you're looking through like a Thicket or sagebrush or something you're doing very tight. Yep Yep This is probably the most points I have And this is the one I spent three years looking for the other side. Oh, you never found it

There's 13 or something 13 I guess years looking for the other side. Oh, you never found it? You never found it. How many points is that? I think there's 13 or something. 13, I guess. And when I count points, I don't count the brow tines. Yeah, but if you're just counting up the points, I mean, why not? I mean, at a point, it's just a I mean, at a point, it's a point.

Yeah. I mean, all this other stuff's a point. That's a point. So you point it's a point yeah I mean all this other stuff's a point that's a point so you counted that up and didn't count that that's right what I would say that's a 13 and what I write is with if it has a brow time I put a with but I don't count the point do you have like you realize a date like That it's longer than some of these? Yes. Okay. You said you write it down. Do you have like this documented somewhere? Like every antler you have?

You do? Yes. I can show you that. You keep a log book? Oh yeah. I keep a journal ever since 1969 of everywhere I've been. What I found that day, what I saw that day. I keep a strict record of like that bunk in this bunk. These are all shed sets

Have local biologists like ever shown interest in know your stuff No Sure, turn that journal into a book Well, then everybody would know where I go Like the times of shed hunter you mentioned a fear that that it would be that someone would come look at your collection and their takeaway would be your the takeaway wouldn't be like wow i'm so glad that someone took the time to find this stuff and put it on display and allow people to come look at it but instead their takeaway would be like this is a weird dude and as and you were explaining to me that you're a lot of other things too that are weird well yeah but i thought you when you did it i thought you do the old

i'm a husband and a father but you did no i'm a tell us i have a four ton 400 ton rock collection i've planted that you hauled in your pickup. That I've hauled in my pickup and loaded a stone at a time. I walk the Headwaters Trail system here. I've walked getting close to 21,000 miles. My goal is to walk 25,000 miles, and that will take me around the earth. I've ridden an exercise bike and never left my bedroom, and I rode it around the world twice, 50,000 miles.

Do you keep track of the miles that you put in picking up shed antlers? It's in my journals, yes. I keep track of the hour. Well, not really the miles. I keep track of the hour well not really the miles i keep track of the hours that i've spent roughly how many have you logged i have never added them up you don't have any guests thousands i'm sure oh yeah not really what uh i get the sense from you talking to you, because, you know, well, let me ask you this first.

How many people come in and say the things I was saying about fire systems and insurance and alarms? I've had people ask about the alarms. You're the first one on the fire system. But I've had others on insurance. But I've had people come in and look around and say, oh, my God, all those dead animals. Did you kill all these animals? And I say, no. And then I explain about finding them.

And everything dies. And I said, the wonderful thing about shed hunting is you can be anti-hunting. You can be vegetarian.hunting you can be vegetarian and you can still be a shed hunter be a shed hunter what percentage of people show up here that have no background in hunting or deer elk like don't know anything about these animals i would I would say 25% or so. You get a lot of Germans in here? What prompted that question? It just seems like a place that German tourists would show up at. They got a whole thing about the West and Americana, weirdly.

You get a lot of Germans? Nah, probably not anymore. I had a Chinese guy that had come down from Canada. And he works in Canada, but he was from China. Come down, brought me a big bouquet of flowers. Huh. I've had a lady come, and she was from the coast, brought me a chunk of salmon.

I've had things like that over the years. What I was going to get at about the insurance thing and the fire thing, after spending a couple hours with you, I feel as though if, let's just say it did, like it was just, you woke up one day and it was gone. I feel like you wouldn't even,

like I don't, I feel like you just would go about your business. Oh, I would. I'd be sad. And feel like you just would go about your business well i would i'd be sad and to tell you the truth about twice a year or three times a year i have a dream that i go out there and part of the antlers are gone somebody stripped the walls and hauled them off and i've had antlers stole from me before i had uh i had a shed over here where i had that that's before i had a shed over here where I had that. That's before I had built this shed. And I had 28 elk sets. Two of them were Boone and Crockett that were stole.

Really? They should pass a special law that if anyone ever messes with any of this stuff, it's automatic capital punishment. Well, it was interesting. Like a special law applicable to this property the odd thing about the when they stole the antlers there was a lot of it going on because that's when the prices first yeah so there was a lot of it going on so the cops come to me and they said would you donate some antlers for a sting operation and i said no problem and this went on for a couple of months

and uh nobody ever they put him somewhere I don't know anyway they finally brought him back to me but they never found the guy that stole the people that stole mine so my brother was in California my brother comes back from California and he he knows that these antlers have been stolen, and he says, I'll find out. He went uptown to the bar, and three hours later, he come back and told me the three guys that stole them. Did you get them back? No, but we paid them a visit. But they were gone already.

They sold them. Oh, they'd been gone. They had already made it to Korea. Really? Sold them to a buyer and gardener. My brother. Okay, go ahead. My brother, this doesn't rival your collection,

but he had a spruce tree in his yard that he liked to wrap antlers around. And one day he comes home, they're just gone. And another buddy had a moose head, moose antlers, skull hanging above his garage door, same time period. Ripped off. I thought he had a moose head, moose antlers, skull hanging above his garage door. Same time period. Ripped off. You know. Yeah.

Jim, you're 72 now. You told us earlier. Was there a time in your antler collecting life and career when the collection was more valuable to you personally? Like where you would have been and had more sorrow? Had it be stolen or burned up or anything? No, because I don't work that way. I don't live in fear. It's not like I'm brave or anything, but I just don't look at things that way.

I mean, I've got enough else. I mean, I've been so fortunate in my life with my three daughters uh with the worthless son-in-laws with the grandkids i mean i i really have and uh so no i i just i don't look at life that way but do you look at them just like they're material things yeah maybe you shouldn't really just place that much value on material things. In a way, yeah. Nobody's offered to steal the rocks.

I have no problem with that. Not one. When we were in the shed, you'd mentioned that antler hunting saved your life. Yes. What was that story? Okay. I knew I had a heart murmur, and actually it kept me. Oh, I was going to ask you about that.

You got a big scar running down your chest there. Yeah, I'm a member of the zipper club. I mean, that's what they call it. Anyway, I was, I knew I had a heart murmur. In fact, it kept me out of the Vietnam War. I flunked my draft. But I played football in high school and things like that. But anyway, I was actually in the hills just north of town here. And I was down in the bottom of the canyon. I was looking for sheds and I had a good day. And I started up out of that canyon and I knew my wife, and this was before I didn't have a cell phone,

I knew she'd be worried because it was late. And I was trying to, man, I just, I couldn't. I'd go for a ways and I'd just drop. And I kept, finally I made it to the truck. And I got home and pulled into the garage there and opened the door and literally fell out of the truck. I mean, and she came out running out there. And I said, I can't do this anymore.

I just, I have got no energy. Well, my brother and I had a shed hunting expedition planned to go back to Colorado, the two of us. And it was about a week away. So I thought, I'm going to go into, I think I got some kind of a pneumonia. So I'm going to go and get a physical. So I went into the doctor and got a physical and she says, I want to take an x-ray of your heart. I said, fine.

So I went in there and she come out a few minutes later and she says, that's the biggest heart I've ever seen. You're like, oh, thank you. And so being the smartass, I said, I'm a big-hearted guy. And she didn't think that was funny at all, not even a little bit. And she said, no. So she sent me to the specialist in Bozeman. He said, your aorta is letting blood back into your heart.

He said, your aorta is aneurysed. He said, it should be about, I think, three something. And he says, yours is seven. And it could burst at any minute so i had open heart surgery two weeks later and uh in that time between my having the heart surgery i wanted to walk the trail and nobody would let me you had to take some time off. Cut into your mileage count. Cut into my mileage count. And within, I was in the hospital for five days. Two days after I got out of the hospital, I walked the trail five miles. A week later, I was back up to six miles. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada.

And boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew, our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season.

The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. That's right. We're always talking about OnX here on the Meat Eater Podcast. Now you guys in the Great White North can be part of it. Be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet

function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services hand-picked by the OnX Hunt team. Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer,

you can get a free three months to try On x out if you visit on x maps.com slash meet on x maps.com slash meet welcome to the to the on x club y'all what year did you go out and and deliberately pick up your first antler 1958 how old were you 10 at what point did you say i'm going to collect these antlers i don't think i've said that yet i mean really. I went out and I found one and I drug it down to the trailer. The next day I went out. Of course, I'm 10 years old.

I mean, these are elk horns. I found another old white horn not too far from the trailer, drug it down to the trailer. And my father informed me right then he wasn't packing these damn things home. Oh, this is like a camp you guys had or a cabin type trailer yeah so i didn't do you still have those antlers no i'm sure i traded them i mean i had two huge archways out here at the end of this driveway i had a huge archway in our cabin that was up the gallatin i had a huge mound in the backyard of where my parents

lived and what i've done is traded most of the old elk horns for deer horns and sets and some of the freak stuff yeah so the i see what you're saying that you never like started a collection because you kind of moved them all around i built built things out of them. I built, but the sets, and I don't know why, but my dad had an old shed on our property, and the sets I kept inside. The sheds, I built a huge column. I took ale corn, set the burrs on the ground, tipped them in, wired them together,

did that a second time, and i went on top of that and did it again and went on top of that and did it again it was probably oh 15 feet tall so how but how do you know that you had like how do you know that there are that you have 16 000 antlers because i keep track of every one of them well how many don't you have that you have 16,000 antlers? Because I keep track of every one of them. Well, how many don't you have that you could have had if you kept them all? The 700 fresh elk that I sold to help put the daughters through college and the 1,500 deer. I don't count them in my collection because I don't have them. So that's another, what, 2,200 antlers with close to 18,500 or something.

And you've never bought one? You've never like pulled your wallet out and bought an antler? Nope. Never. Have you ever had an antler you really wanted? Oh, Lord. You're talking like there was only one? No.

There's a lot of them. That you wanted bad bad but it broke your principles well and to get along with my wife yeah but after a while it became the fact especially after antlers got worth a lot is that right how do you say that no you're worth a lot of money and i saw people buying antlers to form a collection or whatever. That's when I really set in and thought, no, I'm not going to do this. I'll trade antler for antler. I'll trade some of my fresh elk for a freakish deer or set or something like that, but I won't buy them.

And I go to the antler auction, not this year, but I go to the antler auction at Jackson Hole every year. And I get a bid sheet because I want to keep track of all the bids and how much antlers are worth. I go through the line on the side streets where they're selling all their antlers. And those guys know me. And they know I'm just there to fondle their antlers. I'm not going to buy anything. You express that all these antlers, they're just material things. You try not to put too much value on them.

So then how would you react? What would your attitude be towards someone asking you for your shed hunting spots if they weren't going to go sell them? They just wanted to appreciate them and put them on their wall. Tell them to take a freaking hike. That's what I tell people.

I says, you know, they says, talking about the spots to look for sheds, I says, you can go anywhere I don't go. You said you'll sometimes get somewhere and you don't see something, but you feel that you should and you wait and all of a sudden then you see it i've had that where i've walked into the woods or walked into an area and it just hits me that there's something here i'm not seeing and i don't know if my eyes pick it up in it i'm not a real bright guy so if it makes it to my brain or not and i pause and i

take the extra time to look and a lot of times i'll find an antler but there are times that i haven't found so what do you feel is not bright about you oh dyslexic i don't know is that right yeah i've written two books uh i do a lot of writing. Can't spell for shit. I don't know if that would be, I don't think that I would then say you're not that bright. I always had a hard time in school. I barely got out of high school. I had a football scholarship offered to me at Boise State.

I tell people Boise State, they get real excited. But at the time it was a two-year college. But don't you feel rather than brightness, it's probably like... Dumbass luck, yeah. No, I think it's probably that your brain's not malleable at all. You don't get with the program. You know what I mean? Like my brother, I think my brother and my sister-in-law,

they never got with the program. Because where they're headed is so definite, right? It's so strong and definite that you can't veer it, but it's going somewhere. It's not like you're stagnant. It's not like your brain just sits there, and then it can't be pushed. So it doesn't go anywhere, but you can't channel it either. It's just that it's going, and no one's going to bump it to the way it's supposed to go. So it doesn't go anywhere, but you can't channel it either. It's just that it's going, and no one's going to bump it to the way it's supposed to go. So it just goes.

Could be. Well, that could be. What the hell else would it be? It's like there's a brilliance, right? But no one's going to move it left or right. And most of us get steered. I don't get distracted. Yeah get we get with the pro yeah we get with the program like whatever the program we're supposed to get with this it's like oh i get

it you're supposed to have a nice house got it we're more like sheets yeah you're like oh degrees are cool i'm on it we're not i'll turn that direction i'll get a whole shitload of degrees we're not our own trailblazers you know we're not we're not finding the things that we want to find we're kind of following some program because it's been preordained or please tell me what to do i think a lot of people jim it's complicated but i believe he's uh paying you a compliment i'm trying to get that it's a long road to get there no i'm extremely focused if that's what you mean. I mean, when I'm out antler hunting, that's my focus. I don't listen to music.

I enjoy my surroundings, I guess, but when I'm doing the rock work, that's where my focus is. I mean, I'm, and I love that. I mean, you're a creative artist. If anyone comes here and sees what you've put together and designed your writing, I mean. I've heard that, but to me, I don't see that. You don't think of yourself as an artist? No.

That's probably pretty helpful. People that do, ugh. Like, when that's the first thing i hear out of someone's mouth and i was like oh i bet not i'm sure you'd like to be do you have a sort of internal compass like a like a ethos or a life philosophy that you use to check your behavior i'm an introvert and so like the pandemic don't even know what's going on because i've always been isolated that way introvert uh like how many days could you go without talking to anybody besides your wife before you felt like something was screwy i don't think it'd be days i think it'd

be months uh-huh i mean i've i talked to my dog do you get along well with your wife well we've been married for 52 years and she had thrown my ass out yet so i'm saying yes and i've given reason to i've been extremely extremely fortunate way, she puts up with. But then we do a lot of things together. I told you about the rock work up at the cabin. What she does and we do together is on the south side, we have 19 acres, and we clear sagebrush. I mean, we'll spend a half a summer clearing all the south side. We have 19 acres. And we clear sagebrush.

I mean, we'll spend a half a summer clearing all the sagebrush. On the north side where the timber is, we trim the trees. For what reason? Because we enjoy the work. See, I used to apologize because I didn't bowl.

I did golf for a while. because I didn't bowl. I did golf for a while. There were things like that. That is an upsetting thought. I love the word. You doing that. Actually. You live on a golf course. When I started golfing, I got about a seven handicap.

I was doing really good. In one year, we won the club championship. That was 15 years ago, and I haven't golfed since because I went out on top. Spencer here, he likes to swing the old club. What kind of euphemisms do you guys have for golfing? What's your handicap, Spence? Like tickling the ivories for piano.

I'm not even good enough to know my own handicap. Spencer, I once put it to a guy I knew. It'd be like hearing a gym golf. It doesn't fit and this guy was a lion hunter and it just didn't fit that he golfed i'm like how could you like golfing like you can't be a lion hunter who golfs it's like i want you to do like the coolest thing in the world it takes so much energy and focus and and like intelligence and he goes man you to golf all the time just to be shitty. That's right. That's true.

That's true. What are some of the bigger changes you've seen in the whole horn picking, shed hunting activity, world, lifestyle, whatever you want to call it over the course of 50 years? That's a good question. Weeds. Huh. Weeds. Huh.

That's the weeds in the mountains. Weeds in the mountains. Whoa. There's places I go that there was never any Canadian thistle. There was never any mullein. There was never any... Napweed. I didn't know that mullein was a non-native.

Well, in Madisonison county it's a noxious weed oh gallatin county it isn't i hate it just for its arrogance does that make sense because it shoots up that big stalk yeah kids like to throw it like a spear i can tell you that when yanni was asking that question what i was thinking that that where i thought you would go with it is um that when you picked up your first antler, people probably didn't, picking antlers wasn't probably a thing. Nobody picked up antlers. Like I said, I'm the weird kid in high school that everybody has fast cars and girlfriends and I was up in the freaking hills tromping around looking for antlers. You were cool before it was cool.

Well, yeah, it wasn't cool and i can tell you that now when it became a thing as the popularity of antler picking antler hunting has grown has it made you um like it less like it more or you're just like you're in your own world it doesn't matter the sort of cachet of it doesn't matter i mean it doesn't matter in the in the fact that there's nothing i can do about it i mean that i get hit over the head from my wife all the time it's progress and so i there's no if i if i could control it i would more than likely like to but i can't control it so no i you just gotta let it go you gotta let it go probably one of my worst experiences uh that's when i was in the porcupine

area a lot and i'd find a lot of sheds when i went in there and i found a camp and that's go those guys were in there looking for antlers for the money. And I found where they had camped and the stuff they discarded. And that's when I realized, man, this has all changed because the money has taken over. And it's not for the joy of finding antlers or anything like that. It's for the money. And college kids out of Bozeman, hell i didn't uh blame them from going out looking for handlers i mean you could find a 10 pound elk horn then was worth five bucks a pound that's 50 bucks you know a lot of those guys were out in the hills looking for it for the money

is that part of your kind of mark of pride that that you won't have spent a dollar on an antler for your collection. In a way. And the other thing is there's a handle on the inside of that big door, and that's the only thing I've ever made out of an antler. I don't like to see them cut up. Chandeliers are a wonderful thing, but you go to Famous Dave's, you see all them fancy chandeliers. They're all rosin. Yeah. You go to Famous Dave's, you see all them fancy chandeliers.

They're all raws and they're not. Yeah. So I just made my kids three for Easter. I made them three custom mule deer antlered marshmallow sticks. Oh, good for you. You wouldn't like something like that. No. No.

You just depressed him, Steve. And my birthday's in a month, and no thank you. I went down to the hardware store and bought some rod, drilled them out, epoxy'd them in there. Gorgeous. And I'm sure, yes, they are. I mean, I've seen some beautiful, especially when they take the moose sheds and do those inkers designs.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've seen some beautiful stuff. I don't have an antler-alcorn buckle for your belt. I just don't like to see them cut up. I don't like to see them cut up. Give some antler hunting tips, like a hot tip. Patience and perseverance. You can go anywhere in the state of Montana where it's legal and find an antler.

It might be a white tail. It might be a mule deer. It might be an antelope. It might be an elk. But literally, if you're looking, and I always look, I, when I walk, I, I memorize the distance in front of me for about 10 feet. I memorize that as I walk, as I look ahead and then I'm always looking to the side. Cause you got your foot placements sort of subconsciously picked out. And I'll do that going across the city park and I'll do that going across the football field.

Because years ago when I started, I remember I was going up through a big open meadow and I was looking for antlers everywhere and fell flat on my face and tripped over a brush head five-point elk horn. So now I study the ground, and then I memorize it, and then i look to the sides as i go i'm always torn um as a person interested in antlers and artifacts and old bones and whatnot

but also interested in spot and game i'm always torn because there's like two kinds of people three kinds it's people that don't see anything and then there's like two kinds of people, three kinds. It's people that don't see anything. And then there's like your far lookers and close lookers. And I'm very torn between being a far looker and a close looker. See, hunting, I love to mule deer hunt, but I don't even know if I'd shoot one anymore. I never liked elk hunt, but we lived on elk, so I always hunted them. But the animal, I guess, is not that important to me. I mean, like anybody, I like to see a huge bull or a huge buck or whatever. And I love to see the animals in the yard and all that. But

I guess my reverence is for the antler, not for the animal. Hmm. What does it represent for you? I guess my reverence is for the antler, not for the animal. What does it represent for you? I guess on the antler, especially like on elk horns, the energy that it takes to grow it, to me is, I mean, I don't think anybody can even appreciate when they see a 16-pound elk horn and he's got a 16-pound one on the other side, and he grew that in five and a half months after coming out of a winter that he freaking near starved to death in, after coming out of a rut that he was exhausted doing i mean to me it's just

utterly amazing i can understand why an old elk's nine years old and dead taxing life yeah i mean it's it's just got to be a rat race all the time i mean just and then to i can't imagine the amount of nutrition or energy to grow i mean be like you and me growing two legs in five and a half months every year it's just it's amazing the thing you said earlier that i thought was interesting i asked you why like the big why right like why in the hell would you i mean we're focused on we're focused on in our conversation we're focused on finding them but to me the the energy put into the display you've built oh which is which is like i i would regard it as um this is gonna sound hype hyperbolic but i don't think

it is i would regard it as sort of like one of the most like kind of staggering um like pieces of art i've ever seen i'm not joking no but what's funny that, and I think I have one of the guys' books, but there was a guy from Bozeman that wrote a book about all the oddities in Montana. I mean, I can't even remember something, but there were all kinds of oddities that he went around the state and wrote a book. Yeah, but I'm not comfortable calling it an oddity. But then he wrote a second book and went around the state. You know, I'm not in either one of them.

Is that right? It's not an oddity. Like, I think an oddity, it's got a lot of oddities in it. But I think as its thing, anybody with sort of any art historian or anyone, people who are interested in sculpture or whatever anyone would come in and be like i get it it's got all these constituent parts as a whole it is a a man's lifelong like a a creative piece it is a piece of art that was produced over a long period of time it is a piece of installation art and i've had a few people that recognize that so when i asked you like the big why it's funny that you um

are self-aware enough or whatever where you said it's a compulsion and then you don't dress up the compulsion as something else that you just recognize that like you have a compulsion yes i like stuff to be neat in my house and i've only recently begun to say uh organized you know yeah i've recently been to say like yes i recognize it as a problem but it's not one i care to fix and i would like the people around me to conform to it well that's why my wife and i get along so well is the only antlers you'll find in this house are those and i had to build this room on for that there there are no antlers in that part of the house do you look at other people

with extreme collections and find them weird like if somebody collected sports cards or shot glasses or vinyl records like would you get it or would you be like that's that's strange no i would i would i mean i look at is everybody collects something i mean my wife collects daniel steelbooks uh we have a bulldog uh collection that we've put together ourselves, but everybody collects something. So would you go out of your way to go see a shot glass collection? No. So you don't like collections for the sake of collections.

I had an aunt, and that's where I get my collecting from, who collected rocks. She collected Kleenex boxes. She collected all kinds of things. She had them. I've, in fact, I've got it. She's got a matchbooks collection that I've put in a 55 gallon drum and filled it. So she, but she never took care of her collections.

She had an elephant. She never enshrined them. No. She had an elephant collection. Probably had 500 different kinds of elephants. Figurines and stuff like that. Most of them were broken. And I guess that's where I make sure I take care of my collection.

But I think there's something to be said for walking tens of thousands of miles on trails and just being out in the... I'll correct you there. I don't go any freaking trail. Oh, sorry. I'm separating. The trail system. The trail is here. Right, right.

Going to the woods. Yeah. When I go out in the woods, I don't follow any trails. You just bushwhack. I just zigzag. I cover an area. Going to the woods, yeah. When I go out in the woods, I don't follow any trails. You just bushwhack. I just zigzag. I cover an area. I might get on a deer trail or something a little bit, but I don't do trails. But there's something to be said for going into the woods and being out in the middle of nowhere and collecting, working to collect your, to amass your collection.

And the other thing that I'm thankful in a way for my wife is receptive to is I've always gone alone. And that was long before there were cell phones or anything like that. I mean, and. Do you still now travel and look for sheds in grizz country alone? Yeah. And I've had a couple of grizz encounters that were extremely scary. But I was never, I guess I can tell you one of them.

I was, and this was up in the Gallatin again. I've got a really nice huge pack of alecorns. I probably got 15 or 20 on my pack, and I'm coming out. But that's not enough. There's one little spot in there where I wanted to go up, and there was kind of a pocket back in there, and I wanted to go in and check it out, see if there anything there so I got this big old pack on my back and I'm going through these trees and I get back into this spot and there's a spot pretty near as big as this room

that looks like somebody raked it with a garden rake and right in the center is a cow elk head and I think to myself that's a grizzly cache. So I took off and I headed down out and I had to go across the creek. And the creek was high and really flowing. But there was these three logs. So I get up on the logs and the water's kind of splashing up on the bottom one. I get up on the logs and I hear the grizzly roar. So I turn around to look, and I'm kind of walking backwards,

and I slip, and I fall backwards with the pack on my back between the two logs, and I'm pinned there. I mean, I can't, the straps are around, I can't move. And I hear him roar again, and he's closer. He's coming, he's following me. And I lay there, and this is the God's honest truth. I cried, because I knew he was coming up on, and I was dead. There was nothing I could do.

And I was laying there, and I laid there, and I laid there, and nothing happened there and nothing happened and nothing happened. And finally, I noticed that I had my hunting knife on my, in a scabbard, and I could get it with the two fingers. And I could, when I got it out, I could cut that one strap. So then I freed myself and I got, and I still never heard the bear. So then a normal person would have just headed out of the country. Not me. I packed the horns on across the creek, fixed the strap,

put the pack back on, and headed out. Wow. I don't think I've heard the roar of a grizzly yeah oh lord like the just and you could tell that do the noise i can't do the noise let's do an approximation of the noise i'll tell you what's scarier than that is mountain lion and i've had them follow me and heard them i was this was when i was a kid i was up dry creek out of townsend and i was fishing and i was so concentrated on my fishing i didn't even know it got dark and the moon come up my parents they were just going nuts they were driving up and down the road a hollering and i could hear this one mountain lion on one side screaming and a mountain lion on one side screaming

and a mountain lion on the other side screaming above me. And your mom screaming. And my mother was screaming. And then I've had mountain lion where I've known they're tracking me, where they're following me, but they've never, I've only ever seen two or three in my lifetime. You can go a long time between seeing them. Yeah.

And then it's usually just a flash. Any other follow-up questions? I got mine answered. Kind of concluding by backtracking, but it kind of, there's a magic in that room that pictures just don't, they just don't do it justice.

And you can call it art or OCD, and I think it's art by way of OCD. But going back, Steve always likes to say that there's two types of people or three types of people. I'd send a picture to my wife. There's people who think you can put everybody into two. Exactly. I sent a picture of the room to my wife and she said, that's crazy.

Is that even insurable? So that was her first thought. And I think you're one type of person and she's the other. I think it's impressive and it's magical. Do you imagine at this point, you're 72, do you imagine? Well, I got to make it there yet it's almost 72 yeah are you um do you imagine now like you've kind of you're you're wrapped it up no okay no because i still enjoy doing it uh like i said i'm a little slower now i'm

gonna try to be in a lot better shape, and I'll go with some in the fall. I'll be in a lot better shape next spring and get out and try to cover more country. So you think there's horn to be picked out there right now? Oh, yes. Yes. Just waiting for the fall. Yes.

Just laying there. When the green grass, when the first frost comes and knocks the grass down and the rattlesnakes will go off and do their business and leave me alone, then I'll... Go out and pick it all up. Yep. Or I'll at least go around and look for some...

Rattlesnakes are probably my biggest concern, more so than grizzly bears or why them because they bite but are you running into that many of them oh yeah can you know why you know why you're running into a lot because you probably got good eyes for seeing stuff and you see them or other people don't see them and i'm in the and i don't bother them i don't kill them. And I don't bother them. I don't kill them. The other day I had my daughter, so my seven-year-old and my five-year-old.

He might not have been five. No, they were seven and five. And I was messing around and they were messing around. And they come running up about a little snake they found, a little snake in a little hole in the rocks. And this thing was like a rattlesnake the size of your wrist curled up in there.

They said it was a little black and white one, and I looked at it, and I was like, nothing little, nothing black and white. My oldest daughter tells the story that I was fishing down on the Missouri, and the kids were little, and my wife had them all spread out on a blanket, and I was fishing along the bank and i scared this

rattlesnake up and he come up over the blanket and she grabbed a kid in each hand and took off well there was still one on the blanket because we had three kids it says mom left me this uh this is like in my house i put my coolest things my coolest fossils antlers uh pieces of petrified wood like on my fireplace mantle and and my bookshelf and office desk stuff like that this has made me feel wildly inadequate like there are thousands and thousands of things here like literally thousands that would trump the coolest things that i have so this is just like a wildly special place i did find myself think feeling a little emasculated yeah about my uh pile of cool things yep like i look now i'm like what's the

point oh yes see that's the object of the shed is and that's why things are displayed because i'd seen so many piles in a in a uh corner of a garage or somebody's yard or whatever so i wanted to make the effort to display them well yeah it's not just the overwhelming amount of antlers in there which in of itself is powerful but it's still yeah it's the way that you have the the symmetry that doesn't even really reveal itself you can kind of oh there's a lot when you're in there okay there's a lot of patterns yeah oh spencer you know i keep forgetting to tell you um doug durham was listening to a previous episode and he was half listening he heard about rock picking oh yeah and he thought we

were talking about going out into a farm field and gathering up the rocks and he was very supportive of the conversation yeah it was happy to hear that that was your the background of rock picking and then was dismayed to learn that you were doing recreational rock hounding and he was like never ever ever confuse rock picking with rock hounded another cut corn situation all right well jim thank you very much for your time man this has been a great tour yeah thanks for having us i enjoyed your company and that's the idea of the horn shed house whatever you want to call it is people to come and enjoy it and when we're home if we're not up at our cabin and stuff when we're here and people get in touch with me then i'm more than happy to take them through the collection

and how do you want to tell people now over the air how to get in touch with you? Or should they just Google you? They can Google me. You might get a few. He's got a website. What's your website address? Antlerman.com. Okay.

Just go to antlerman.com and get a hold of me, email from there. You know what my new life goal is i'm gonna find some kind of antler and i'm gonna bring it over here and you're gonna beg me for it and then i'll give it to you okay i don't know i don't know what it's gonna be but i'm gonna find some thing it's gonna be some thing it's gonna be an antler like with a grown around a human skull or something. I like to fondle them. And you're going to be like, you're going to try to

break your rule to buy it. And I'll just be like, you can just have it, Jim. Okay. Thank you very much. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in

OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24k topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com

meet.