The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 244: Good People for a Good Country

Episode Date: October 26, 2020

Steven Rinella talks with Juanita Vero, Casey Snider, and Janis Putelis.Topics discussed: Very dramatic wind; a lightning strike that festers for weeks; codifying hunting and fishing in the state constitution; a privilege vs. a right; the national hobby of poking fun at California; all the levies at the tail end of ballots; how Steve wants to run for government office and propose a trapping bill; campaigning for your opponent; truly trying to understand someone with whom you disagree; neutralizing folks' anger by knocking on their doors for a conversation; politics are terrible and people are good; how it would be wise to Vote Vero! if you live in Missoula County; "block management" as a terrible name for what the thing actually is; visiting the bones of your grandfather when you need to make a decision; the correct recipe for pavement; attempting to infuse politics with joy; and more. Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google Play Store. Know where you stand with OnX. On the subject of wind, we've been talking about wind. Tell people how windy it is, Giannis, so they don't think that I'm just struggling. It's the windiest I think I've ever seen it since I've moved to Montana five years ago.

It's so windy that Giannis got reports from 80 mile an hour winds. Oh, yeah, over in Big Timber. Rancher was working cattle, shipping cattle, and he says his eyes are swollen from all the small particles that have been blown into his eyeballs the last two days. That windy. I thought my windows might implode towards me this morning

as I was making coffee. It was so windy. That bad. And the glass was flexing. Extremely windy. We have a Halloween, it's so windy that that doesn't matter. There's a Halloween decoration that I had to get up and remove in the middle of the night. Bam, bam, bam, bam.

But. Oh, here's a way to explain how windy it is. My neighbor's wheelbarrow, which I don't know exactly where he stores it on his property, but it was at least 100 yards from his house. A wheelbarrow had just been blown across the landscape. That's pretty windy. I got two windy things. I want to tell, so for the first time ever, my beloved sister-in-law, say something Juanita. Juanita Vero is here.

Thank you, Steve. Pleasure to be here. My favorite, probably, I like you more than Yanni. I like you more than my brother. Like if I had to choose between my brother and my sister-in-law. You have two brothers and two sister-in-laws. No, I'm talking about this one. This one in particular.

I'm just trying to lay it on thick. The one that Juanita's married to. Yeah, Juanita's married to my brother, Matt. But I'm talking about this one. This one in particular. I'm just trying to lay it on thick. The one that Juanita's married to. Yeah, Juanita's married to my brother Matt. But I like her more than him. Which puts me in an awkward position because originally, I never told you this, I was originally not skeptical

of you, but I was sussing you out. Ooh. Because I care about my brother a great deal. And so, you know, I love him to death. What did you find out in your sussing? Oh, that I liked you?

But initially, right? Initially, like I wouldn't take him saying like, oh, you know, whatever, have a girlfriend, we might get married. I don't take that as, I wouldn't take that as like that as like oh gosh can't wait to meet this wonderful person my head would go what's wrong went like like um uh i got her number now i'm gonna find out skepticism You'd like do them wrong. I don't know. He was injured. Skeptical. Like I was skeptical, but then now,

you know, you really won me over. Oh. Like I love you so much. So, so kind. I know. I love you so much.

You do such a great job at, at being a brother. You do a great job being my brother's wife, but I'll point out, you guys don't live together. It's a secret. Yeah. You guys live nine.

To a long, happy marriage. You guys live nine hours apart. Yes, it is true. It's like a long, with no immediate plans to remedy the situation. Not even looking at it as something that should be remedied. Absolutely not. Maybe when we get a little older. Like someday.

You haven't ruled out living together. When we need, you know, some care. I think remedy, though, makes it sound like it's a problem and there's something wrong with it. Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. It's not like a thing that they're stuck in and wish they weren't. You just don't live together. Just don't live together.

I think a lot of couples probably wish. Later. Yeah, when we need assisted living help. You'll assist each other? No, we need someone to wipe our asses and might as well just have one person do it. That's right. It'll be cheaper. Or you just start to love each other so much that you can't be that far apart anymore.

You need more time together. We got a lot of love right now. I don't know. I want to tell you my windy story, though. This is very windy. I thought your brother's house was going to blow away. Well, that's what I'm getting at. This is a prolonged setup for a story about windiness.

The first time I took my wife to my brother's house in Mile City, she'd never been to Mile City. And I think she just had, like, she's pregnant. We had one baby and she was pregnant with another baby. Either way, I take her there and I don't know what's,

I didn't know, but there's like a hurt, there's a hurt. Karina had a baby. There's a tornado coming. But I didn't know there was a tornado coming. So we get to Mile City

and we're going to go fishing. And our friend Dee Was there as well And so Katie's like well I was gonna hang out and catch up with D And we'll hang out in the house And you guys all go fishing So we start down the road to go fishing And all of a sudden like a tornado hits And uh

Blows trees Like we couldn't even get anywhere We couldn't even get down the road Because like cottonwoods are blowing down the road A chunk of Matt's roof blows off his house. Whoa. She's like huddled in the doorframe and she's like never been to this town in her life. She's only been here like 30 minutes.

And she's thinking, my God, this place is windy. Unbeknownst to any of us, it was like. And his doorframes probably aren't the sturdiest of door frames. No, it's like the kind of house that they haul in on. It's the kind of house they haul in on a trailer. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Lightly manufactured.

Yeah. And she's like, no, I can't picture how windy it is here. But yeah, I was like arrived during a tornado. Yesterday, I was out with my wife and kids and we ran a ground. Ran a ground. Two days ago. Ran our jet boat aground. And I blame the wind for this because you can run a jet boat in inches of water.

But you kind of rely, when you're picking your course, you kind of rely on the way the water looks. You're looking for deep water, shallow water. And the wind was so severe, two things. The wind was so severe that it interrupted the surface activity on the river and made everything look different because the wind's blowing up current and made, so you couldn't like read the river right.

And I was trying to buy a fishing license for my wife and I was convinced that she already had one. She was convinced she didn't have one. So we're on the phone. I'm trying to drive the boat down a very shallow river and be on the phone like, no, hit that button. No, it's your birthday. You know, I know you go, and all of a sudden,

bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Just dead. I mean, like ran aground. But nobody got thrown. No one got thrown. That's good. It was kind of like BAM! BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM! Yeah. Everybody had to get out.

Dragging the boat around. It was just a gravel bar. Yeah. Ran up on a gravel bar. Scared the hell out of everybody. It was bad. And then yeah. Just like generally horrible fishing.

A dude gave us a walleye. So we wound up with two because the guy gave us one. So a dude had caught one and didn't want to clean it, gave us that walleye, then we caught our own and went home with two walleye. That's it. It was a very windy day. Camped out for the night. Big doings.

Also joined by Casey Snyder. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Spelled real weird. Hey, you know, it's the American version of a German name. So S-N-I, that strong German I rather than a Y, which I think is Dutch technically. Yeah. And you're currently, to give people your, tell people what you're up to. So I am in the state legislature back home in Utah.

So I am from Cache Valley, represent the 5th District, the Fightin' Five, as we like to call it in the state legislature. And last session, this last spring session, we ran a bill to amend our state constitution to add the right to hunt and fish in our state. Joined a bunch of states, including this one, and make sure that that right, that opportunity is always protected in Utah. So that's why I'm here to talk to you about today. Yeah. And you're super involved in, one, you're an ag. Yep. We farm, we ranch, we kind of dabble in everything. I'm a man of many hats, I would say. Including that John Deere one you got on right now. Absolutely. All the way, green all the way. But yeah, so we farm and ranch and then in the legislature and also working on a PhD in fire, forestry and fire at Utah State

University. That's sort of one of those ongoing things, but that dovetails in with in the summertime, we have a local department and I usually will go out for a couple months, couple weeks and fight fire, including this summer. So there's a lot going on. What's your PhD in fire? What are you looking at? So we're looking at basically better ways to predict fire in our state. So I'm working on a fire atlas, which would say, hey, when does this type of vegetation burn? How often and how big do the fires usually go? So basic baseline data stuff. And then we're going to look at some other topics relative to management. Do private lands in the state of Utah burn more often than federal lands or bigger? Those types of just basic questions.

Let's see what's going on down there on a longer scale. So we'll see. It's one of those we're five years in. Hopefully one day they'll call me doctor but we'll see so just just to recap you're in you're like in your state legislator legislature yep and you guys are in farm and you help operate a family ranch yep and you fight fires summer times are busy at my house and you're like enrolled in an academic program. Yep. Yeah. If you don't sleep, you can get a lot done.

I'll just say it. So you just stay up a lot. Yeah, you know, caffeine. You know what surprised me? Are you getting jealous, Steve? A little bit, man. Yeah, I do. I would keep you.

Because with that array, if something's not interesting that day, you just work on a different thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I can tell people what I am not interesting that day, you just work on a different thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I can tell people what I am that day rather than, you know, so maybe today I'll be the firefighter and tomorrow I'll be the farmer, you know, so keeping it light, keeping it flexible. You know what surprised me recently about the fires? I want to point out a commonality between our two guests here, my sister-in-law Juanita. There's a lot of differences and a lot of commonalities that I want to point out. You guys both are in livestock in some respects.

Like you guys have a large horse herd, Juanita. Juanita lives on a guest ranch over in Missoula, and you guys keep a shitload of horses. Yes, and so I was talking to Casey earlier. I was curious about his grazing management and so, and you guys are in the cattle business. Yep. And you guys both like are a fire obsessed.

I was, it could come in and like wipe out because it could come wipe the program out. Yeah. Yeah. I think obsessed is a i'll take that as a compliment we'll say that's a good thing or meant as a good thing oh it's encouraged man like i learned a thing that i didn't know recently is uh we had a big fire right here and we had friends lose their homes and stuff and for a minute we

were kind of like on standby to see if we had to evacuate and it was close to a hiking trail and i'm running around telling everybody, there's no way that someone flicked a cigarette. There was no weather. Then I learned that a lightning strike can fester in the ground or in a tree. It was weeks, wasn't it? Yeah. They think that it was a lightning strike from weeks earlier.

Like, how the hell does that happen? We've had think that it was a lightning strike from weeks earlier. Like, how the hell does that happen? We've had that happen in our place with burning in the fall and in the winter. And then it just goes to the duff and goes to the roots and then blows up in March, April with spring wind, dry day. Hold on, you, like, burning, brush? And suddenly there's instant flame and burning. I mean, Casey knows this. Yeah, it happens all the time.

You can have fires that'll last all winter under the snow, wake up in the spring, oh, there it is again. Really? Yeah. I wouldn't have believed it. Because this is, like, in plain sight, man, that it must have just been living in this tree. Yep. And then erupted out of the ground.

One time, I might have talked about this before, but I can't remember it, but one time we were camping, hunting elk, and we'd started a fire, and it was on a ridgetop with a lot of whitebark pine. There's that deep, deep duff. And you dig down in that shit. You never quite hit mineral soil,

but you try to, whatever, make a fire. And we made a fire, put it out like thoroughly, put it out. I thought a couple of days later, still up hunting. I'm like, that's so weird that there's some dudes camped and that weird ass spot where

we are camped. Cause it's not like a camp spot. Cause I see smoke rising up. And I'm watching the smoke and, like, become more aware of the smoke and more turning around in my head, like, what are the odds that two people would camp there and make a fire and eventually wander up there? And sure enough, man, it had burned down in the pine duff and popped up 10 feet away.

And then we had to go in there and just excavate the hole. We had to take like an evening off hunting and excavate the whole damn area, trying to put all of our fires out. Yeah. You know, some of that stuff, I was on a fire, the Rice Ridge fire over in Seeley Lake three or four years ago. And we had, I don't know, six pumps in series

that were just running and you'd wake up in the morning and you'd spray water on it pretty much all day and go home. Next morning you'd come up and it'd be smoldering again. That duffs once it's got heat, and especially some of this country, it'll go a long time. So, you know, maybe that fire's still burning. Have you been up there lately to check to see if that campfire's all the way out? It's been about 20 years, so I hope by now it's all the way out.

We had another one, similar thing. It's been about 20 years, so I hope by now it's all the way out. We had another one that, similar thing. It was in the snow, and it's tunneled away from us. And the reason you can see it is it got steamy over in other areas where the fire traveled underground through the duff and then started melting up patches of snow to combust. I've learned a lot of lessons since then. Uh, is this your first term doing the state deal? I'm coming out of the, my first term

running for my second. So. So you got a win coming up here. You know, fingers crossed. We'll see how it goes. And then how did it come to be like, tell people what the, the, the program you're involved in or the bill you're trying to do with the, to hunt and fish, like, what's that all about?

So, you know, if I'm not doing everything else, I guess you should say, I'm hunting and fishing. And that is a big part of who I am. And, you know, we've been going back and forth on setting this up. I was up at elk camp all last week and happy not to respond to any emails or phone calls. Did you get an elk? I did. Yeah.

A little five by six bull. This is down in Utah. Mm-hmm. With your bow? Uh, it is a lot easier to get them with your rifle. We'll just say that, but it's dark timber up there, you know, on public land hunt.

So it was, uh, I'm happy to have that, you know, that done. But, uh, that, that's something I've grown up in, done my whole life. And when I, I'm currently the head of what's called the Hunting and Fishing Caucus in our state legislature. And we've sort of been looking at how do we preserve this legacy, this opportunity into the future. We don't know what tomorrow is going to bring. We don't know what kind of pressures are going to be on our sport going forward. So if we could codify now when support is high for these types of activities,

for hunting and fishing, we could put that in our constitution. Maybe down the road, if perceptions change or public opinion shifts, there's at least a higher threshold before those sort of activities could be eliminated or curtailed. So that was sort of the thinking behind things. But, you know, it's common for people to say that, don't people always say it's a privilege? It's like a part of like what they teach in

hunter safety and stuff. I think that's the balance, right? Like it's a privilege and not a right. I think the privilege comes in, it can be revoked, right? You don't follow the rules. You're not up to current statute and doing things the right way, yeah,

that can be eliminated. But at a fundamental level, that fundamental right level, the opportunity to follow the law and to harvest something with your own hands, that's what we're trying to protect. Everything else is subject to statute, right? And to limitation by the Division of Wildlife Resources or our state legislature. But to be always guaranteed that if you're following the law, you can go hunt or fish for something in our state. That was the genesis and the impetus behind the whole thing. How many states have the protections? 13, I believe, right now.

And, you know, some of this goes back, clear back into the founding. So there are states back east. I believe it's Connecticut, if I remember right, or Vermont. They're, you know, right as they're putting their state constitution together, boom, it was in there, the right to hunt and fish. And so we're, we're kind of keeping up. A lot of the states around us have it.

You guys have it here, Idaho, even California has the right to fish. Now they've, you know. Really? They didn't get the right? They parsed it out, you know, so. Seriously? It's dead serious.

And that's maybe some of the concern that we had when we ran it, you know, like, oh, they're already starting to say maybe this isn't. They ran a right to fish? You, you have a right to fish, but you don't have a right to hunt in California. So that, you know, so bow fishing is that in that gray area, right? Like, I don't know how that'll work. So anyway, but yeah, so bow fishing is that in that gray area, right?

Like, I don't know how that'll work. So anyway, but yeah, so we're just, you know, following great ideas and hopefully adding it to our state constitution. Voters have to obviously adopt it. So it has to- By a simple majority. A simple majority. State legislature has to support it with two thirds. So it passed in the House and Senate in our legislature with a two-thirds majority. And now it'll go to the people and it just has to,

you know, 50 plus one. Okay. I got a whole bunch of questions. Oh man. So why, it didn't pass unanimously. No. What was the argument against passing it? So that it was unnecessary? Like what? Yes. Yeah. I mean, fundamentally, it's like, well, of course that's always going to be something. Why we don't need to elevate it to the level of a constitutional amendment. And, you know, I sort of make the argument that you do and, and history in our state would prove. So, um, I don't know if you've talked about it here, but in, in Colorado right now, there's obviously a, there is a proposition to add wolves, to reintroduce wolves going on in the state of Colorado. Yeah. Which has been made a moot point because they've since then, while they've been haggling

over this, the wolves just showed up. On their own. Yeah. So they're there now. But see, in our state, you can't, by proposition without a two-thirds majority, make decisions relative to wildlife. So we passed a constitutional amendment that set that threshold. This is in the early 2000s. And when that ran through, everyone was like, well, this is crazy. Who even cares, right? Why would you even want this to happen? And it was sort of this argument that it was unnecessary.

You fast forward 20 years and you look across the state line and you're like, huh, well, they're kind of doing that now. Or you mean that people are putting like a very simple wildlife management decision that would normally be made by agencies appointed to make those kinds of decisions. They're putting it like to a simple yay or nay 51% vote. Taking science out of it and totally basing wildlife management on public opinion. And that was, again, sort of seen as unnecessary. And so you look at this amendment with that as context and you can say, you know, it's nice just to have this as a safeguard when you've got public opinion on your side. And it's nice to be able to guarantee in our state that right to hunt and fish because of the majority of our population supports it now. We don't know where it'll be 10, 20, 30 years from now.

Has any state ever tried to run one of these and lost? I think they have. Yeah. But I believe that if we've, all the states where it's passed with clear majorities, there hasn't been any problems. And right now there hasn't been any big pushback. All the major hook and bullet groups in our state are supporting us right now there, there hasn't been any big pushback. All the major hook and bullet groups in our state are supporting us right now. And, and there's not any opposition to things. So I'm hoping we're going to, you know, smooth sailing and everything will be good, but you know, I don't know. There's not, there's no organized opposition to a right to hunt and fish. No. And again, any of the, any of the concern comes down to why do we need to do this and why

are we doing it now and that's a you know that's a pretty good argument that that's beatable so see how it goes i i'm optimistic we're going to get it passed through and uh and i'm you know one of those people that's going to benefit from it so can you can you try to identify a, like what would be a thing that this could prevent from happening? Like what would be an issue if you look at other states or some kind of other rule that's come down? What would be something that this would be beneficial in protecting from? So one of the provisions that's added to there, so we sort of put a box around this, right? We say subject to state rules and a few other

things. But one of the things that we guarantee in this is that hunting and fishing will be the primary tool for managing wildlife populations. So if you look in back East in particular, where you've got a high density of whitetail deer, for example, they're basically paying state agencies sometimes at night, sometimes with other means to, to eliminate deer because they've got so many. Our amendment says hunting and fishing would do that. So if, not only do you have the right to take, but you're saying the North American model is fundamental to this and hunters and anglers are always going to be the primary ones playing a role in how wildlife are managed in our state. So that's, for example, one real specific and nuanced thing that hopefully this will protect against going forward. Why don't you guys roll trapping into that? Because we believe that that's covered under the statute.

So it's harvest, take, game. Okay. And I think that's covered without sort of the bigger fight that always occurs over that. So you guys chickened out. You thought about it and chickened out. Come on, come on. No, I think if you're harvesting wildlife, it's covered, right? And there's always that public perception, public opinion drives everything. And while I love to trap, that's something I grew up doing,

mostly bobcats and beavers, there is a pretty strong anti-sentiment with that. So if you can cover that and preserve that right with basically harvest, why have the fight? I mean, there's enough fighting in politics as it is. So if we can achieve the same objective without sticking it in somebody's eye, let's do that. Without calling it out.

Yeah. Now, would it prevent, let's just say, if you're following in the tracks of California, like they've lost the right or ability to use hounds, right? Yeah. So when something like that comes up, when they're like, well, you can still hunt, but you can't do it this way anymore. How does that work? You know, I'm, that's still still that honestly, that discretion still applies.

Like, so we're not eliminating the, the divisions making rules and regulations. That's, it's all subject to that. But what it would say is maybe you can't use dogs or, you know, there's already rules over dogs or bait or whatever on, on different bears and lions. But the ability, it would, what it would guarantee is that you could still harvest bear, right, as long as populations are such and you meet objectives and all those types of things. So it's – that's the root of it. There will always be that debate and I think it's necessary and prudent, right, about means and methods. I think that's a natural part of our sport and I think that has to be part of it. But what we're trying to do is,

is prevent it from being eliminated wholly as an option. Which is, that's what people argue when they argue the death by a thousand cuts. Yeah. Thing. I mean, everybody likes to poke fun at California when it comes to death by a thousand cuts.

Cause it's easy, right? It's, it is easy to poke fun at California. Yeah. I had a guy like a very high ranking. right? It is easy to poke fun at California. Yeah, I had a guy like a very high ranking. It's a national hobby to poke fun at California. That's where you're going.

But yeah, I had a very high ranking person in California's wildlife department predict to me. And he made this prediction a long time ago, years ago. He predicted me. He said, we will lose bow hunting next through referendum and he put it that he said i think in 25 years it'll all be gone if you look at in california they did like method of take stuff on mountain lions. But eventually just got rid of any mountain lion harvest at all by hunters. It's all done now by the state.

I mean, they're still under damage permits killing several hundred of them a year. They're killing the exact same amount. They're killing the state and agents are killing about as many as hunters used to but they removed methods before eventually getting around to the thing and trapping like got rid of trapping and then went to a thing to be that you can't sell fur so what i'd be more interested in is like a piece of protection where I wish that the protections you could measure more against

the death by a thousand cuts thing. One frustration I have with conservation groups, especially ones that, a frustration I have with conservation groups that focus on habitat issues, which are very important access issues is they oftentimes don't like to get embroiled in the method of take arguments

so a couple years ago there was a thing in this state that was you want to talk about like death by a thousand cuts like the level of specificity it It was no trapping, not no trapping, but no trapping on public land to try to narrow it down to like a little thing that you think you could get. They're like, what's the, what's something we could get away with? It got clobbered. It got clobbered. They didn't pass it but it was like so fine-tuned to try to make some progress toward getting rid of hunting trapping whatever yeah in maine it was uh there's a thing a couple years ago in maine i think it was getting rid of bait for bears getting rid of hounds for bears. And people would point out, well, that's the only way people,

like in thick, flat country, that's the only way people get bears. So you're effectively ending 90-some percent of the bear harvest, but you're not coming out and saying it. You're trying to make it an issue about dogs and bait, but we see what you're really driving after. So it'd be cool if we could make protections that helped also prevent the like, just whittling away at people's stuff. I've never heard in California that the thing has gone anywhere to like ban bow hunting, but this guy had it laid out, like how it would be approached, how it would be won.

Well, and I think that goes to the broader point as hunters and anglers, we've got to be involved, right? Like there's, at my level, there is literally only so much I can do. And we've, I think we've done that and sort of set the table and set a pretty high threshold and set a pretty strong burden of proof. But if you, if you like to hunt and fish and you're not involved in the political process, it's going to be involved for you without you. And so that's sort of, I think, I know we're kind of coming off topic a little bit here, but if, if you appreciate these opportunities, you better support them the whole way. And that's through initiatives. That's the ballot box. Heck, if you like to hunt and fish, uh, maybe you ought to even run for office. You know what ruins hunting and fishing for me?

Political service. Yeah. Getting ready for the legislative session in January really screws up my duck hunt. I'm not going to lie. But I believe in this stuff and it's important to me and I'm willing to step up. And I as as folks like to do that we've got to be willing to make that sacrifice on the front end so that this legacy and this heritage is there for our kids hey folks exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada and boy my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew.

Our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include

public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. That's right. We're always talking about OnX here on the MeatEater Podcast. Now you guys in the Great White North can be part of it. Be part of the

excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services hand-picked by the OnX Hunt team.

Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX X club y'all. When the States go to do the right to hunt and fish thing, is there like a, is there like a plan? Like it was a little package they send you to do it in your own state. You know what I mean?

How did it come to be that, to be that it came on your radar? Well, so actually I had a buddy that had done some research work as part of a master's degree, which is sort of compiling data. He's like, hey, we don't have one of these. This ought to be a good thing. You know, and then I started reaching out to the various conservation groups and said, hey, what do you think about this? And, you know, everybody jumped up and down. You want to hear a really interesting committee hearing. Politics is largely boring

unless somebody says something stupid. I think that's sort of the norm. But in our legislature, in the committee where this bill was presented, when we put this forth, we had like half the room in tears. It was the weirdest thing I've ever seen in my whole political career. The chairman is crying saying, I'm going to protect this opportunity for my daughter. Like this is a real tears. Like I'm like, I'm sitting there presenting on my bill and thinking, oh, I think I got pretty strong support in here. Cause he's crying and he's crying and everybody's telling stories about the bull that came off the mountain, you know, and their daughter's first deer and those types of things. So, uh, you know, and their daughter's first deer and those types of things.

So, you know, it was a good idea that obviously had a lot of support and a lot of political and emotional support. And we've run the whole way with it. Have you gotten any well-articulated, like any well-articulated opposition to it? No, no. I mean, there are opinions out there. And I would say that when folks are saying, is this really necessary? I mean, they use good words and correct grammar. So I think you could classify it as well-articulated.

I just don't think it's compelling. And maybe that's the difference. So I think we're going to be okay. You know, fingers crossed, hopefully the voters in the state of Utah will make the right choice. Are those folks, are those opinions coming from people like, or groups like PETA? Or is it just random people that are actually saying, oh, really? Why now? I think it's more random.

Yeah. You know, even some of our large groups, Humane Society and PETA, like you mentioned, that maybe would sort of be a catalyst for opposition. They've largely said, no, it's not a big deal. So at least publicly, and that's how they're behaving so far. And our ballots are coming out this week back home. I'm assuming that you guys are getting yours here too for mail-in. Yeah, I just got his. Oh, man. You know, so we're, we're only what?

A couple of weeks, couple of three weeks before the election. So I think, you know, I think we're going to be okay, but you never know. So we'll, that's why I am so happy to be here today. And hopefully all the listeners in Utah will be convinced by the compelling argument that I have made on this podcast. Well, yeah, I think you probably were going to lose it, but now you're going to win. We'll chalk it up to meteorite right now. What exactly does it say? It's, I mean, I can't regurgitate it verbatim because it's fairly long, but it's basically

the right to hunt fish will be preserved subject to da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And when you go in, when you normally go in and do a referendum thing, like I'm always guilty of, I'm actually going gonna touch on this later because i have to talk about my sister-in-law well i need it more but um i'm guilty of as i get down to the to the tail end of my ballot yeah i i'm finding out about things i wasn't aware of like no i'm like home at what i have that feeling a lot yeah it'll be like a uh on, what? I have that feeling a lot. Yeah. And it'll be like a, what do you call them? Like some new, like very complex, like tobacco taxation issue, right? Yeah, it seems like there's always levies.

Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. All the levies. How can there be 20 levies that I have to think about right now? Yeah, and I'm torn between, I'm always get torn between, um, I could sit it out because I, which is the responsible thing to do. Cause I have no idea what it's talking about.

Or I could try to like read real quick and make like a snap judgment in order to weigh in. But I feel like I'm just not educated on the issue. And then they have these ballot supplements. Right. And each side gets to like agree on a pro-con. And it's sort of like everybody agrees that it's a fair synopsis of the issue. Did you guys have to go through that process?

What's the why not in the ballot supplement uh yeah so uh maybe we're not as cordial back home like i i got to present my opinion they got to present theirs but we didn't like compare notes and say oh i could be totally wrong but they're always very i feel that they're um they're very i should say that they're very measured yeah like it seems like someone is in there because you wouldn't be able to be in there like you know those little flyers you get for candidates he loves china and hates america that they're very measured. Yeah. Like, it seems like someone is in there because you wouldn't be able to be in there like, you know, those little flyers you get for candidates.

He loves China and hates America. Right? Like, that wouldn't be in, that wouldn't be in the, they would find another way to articulate it, you know. He hates babies.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, we have that same thing, you know, and I do need to say I am grateful that you didn't have like a third method, which is like eeny, meeny, miny, moe. So that's, you know, that means you are an informed

voter. I might be guilty. I might be guilty of that now. Well, last time I chose C, I'll go D. I don't want to be predictable. You know, so I, we'll just pretend that you're, you know, A and B are your only options, but we do have that as a smidgen. But I'm hoping like before this podcast, you probably didn't know anything about this right to hunt and fish in the state of Utah. But what does your heart tell you? What do you believe? And I'm hoping that there's that little moment in time in the ballot box or at the kitchen table when you're filling your circles. It's just a feel good. You know what? Boom. And we're going to go with that.

That's my hope. There is going to be obviously this and some other sort of orchestrated like here's get out the vote and let's make sure we're supporting this. But at a fundamental level in my state, that's something I think we still cherish, that heritage, that opportunity. So I think that's going to pick up people, you know, or we roll the dice with A, B, or C. So anyway, we'll see how it goes. Are you a career politician? Were you going to say something? I was just going to say, so the language is really clear on your ballot, right?

Is there a number associated with this? Like we need to advertise this. Gosh, I think we're G. So like we're down to the whole- Like where I start zoning out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, you know, I shot for A and I didn't get it, but there's four or five on the ballot otherwise. But yeah, I. But for a sleepy voter or for Steve cruising through to the bottom of his ballot, the language is very clear about what this is. Right, the hunting fish. Boom.

And you'll see that. Just hunt it down. Hunt it down and love America and the great state of Utah and support that amendment. That's kind of what we're going for. What else throws me on the ballots is when you get down to the part where you're like voting for a judge, but it doesn't seem there's anyone running against them. Yeah. Then I'm always torn too.

Because I'm like, there's not anybody running against them. I might as well make them feel good and write their name down see but here's here's the thing at that point it you're not responsible like all those people who were who could have ran for judge and didn't that's where the blame is so you you just go with what you've got before you that that whole who screwed up isn't you in the ballot box at that point it's whoever's whoever didn't step up and run. Or maybe it really is just a good judge. So don't harbor any guilt on that.

That's all I'm trying to say. He has such an impeccable career, he or she, that no one could even remotely challenge him. Yeah, that one's not on you. Just go with it. Just go with it. Do you imagine you're going to become a career politician? Oh, man, I hope not. Everybody, listen. No, listen. Don't do the false modesty false bashful shit every politician says that

oh i'll tell you one that didn't though i think i remember we had uh wyoming's former governor we talked about a minute ago matt mead was on the show once yeah and he was terming out as governor and i was like so what are you gonna do next he? He's like, nothing. I'm done doing politics. And I'm like, oh, come on. This is like a, it'll be like a week and you'll be, but I think he actually meant it. Like he quit. He's done. Unless he pops up. I was like, I thought he was doing the old like, you know, act like keeping a secret or whatever.

But it seems like he just full on stopped. He was back to ranching. He's done. That's my dream. You know, I want my, if, if my place could be fully productive in my ranch running,

that's what I want at the end of all this. Like, so my wife and I bought our place. It's not inherited. We didn't come, we both grew up in it, but bought our own place. Uh,

that to me is more important, you know, and I've got a couple of- I don't know how people pull that off, man. Oh, man. It's, I think I like to gamble, but I don't, gamble's not really legal. It's not legal in the state of Utah. So I think farming sort of supplements that itch.

But yeah, so that's for me the big thing. You know, I'm happy to serve. I actually, before I ran for office, I made the poor life decisions of working as a staffer in politics. So I worked in DC for a little while. And when this seat that I currently hold came open, it was like, well, I think I could help out. I kind of have been through this mess before. Maybe I can do a few things, but I, you know, I'd like to do a few terms and then if there's something else, whatever, but my preference would be farming, hunting and fishing, because this really screws up with the things that I like to do. How many of you are there? How many people around the state?

In what? The state legislature. Well, like me. I have such a hard time. There's only one Casey Snyder, if that's what you're asking. There's only one. I'll try, let me put it in national terms real quick first, so that people understand or help me and the listener to understand. Like we all know that, you know, we have like, whatever, 364, whatever the hell it is, congressmen, congresswomen in Washington, D.C. that represent the country. And we have a hundred senators two from each state you could have a state like all states get two but a lot of states you might only have one representative or the state might like like have 20 depending on population and sure land mass i think but then you have your state version right and it's a way different job it's way better it's way i could go home at night and i only have

to do this for a couple months yeah and then but i didn't realize it's like, it's not quite, but like is almost sort of a voluntary. Yeah. Like you guys aren't like raking it in. I only get paid January, February and part of March when I'm there. And so everything else is sort of on my, my dime. And even then when you're down there, it's like, you know, probably could stay home, make more money, but. Yeah. And even then when you're down there, it's like, you know, probably could stay home and make more money. Yeah, it's kind of a pure form of politics to serve at the state level. But I actually think that's a good thing.

You know, so it changes the incentives, right? So maybe in D.C., if I'm going to go make $150K, heck yeah, I'll run for Congress, right? Or I'll be a senator and, you know, see what happens. In the legislature, we're in our capital, when you're making like 10 or $12,000 a year, and you got to do this, I bet this takes at least 30 hours a week for me. Like you're going to do it because you legitimately feel like it's service, you know, like I'm not getting rich. And frankly, I doubt I'm going anywhere after this. So it's, it's literally a chance for me to go and say, Hey, neighbors, what's important to you? How can I, how can I impact this in a positive way?

You know? And, and I think that trickles down, like how much, look at a county commissioner, look at a mayor, look at a city council person, right? Like those. You're looking at a county commissioner. See, that's what I'm saying. Like that's, that's service, right? Like, and, and, and, and proof of that is proof of that is what's your incentive at the end of this?

No, it's like I feel like I can make a positive impact on my community. I'm going to step up and do my time. At the end of this, nobody's going to know my name. I call down the city offices. I represent about seven towns in my little valley. Yeah, how many people do you represent? About 35,000 people. Oh, so that's a sizable number. Decent size, but I'll call the city office. You have that many

constituents. Hey, and they all love me, I'm sure. But see, I'll call the city office and I'll say, hey, this is Casey Snyder. I'd like to rent a room for the afternoon to have a town hall or, just talk to some people and they'll be like, okay, who are you? And that's, that is perfect. I love that. Cause then it's like, oh yeah, yeah. You know what? I'm nobody, but can I borrow the room for the night? So. Do you get, do you get people in your constituency are super pissed at you all the time? Well, there are people, clearly they're not a majority cause I'm still here, right? But yeah, I actually have a file in my inbox where like people are super creative when they're insulting you. Like some people, it is amazing. I'm like, gosh, I wish I was that smart when I was mad.

I file it away and I read it back to myself, you know, like, I'm like, gosh, that whenever I'm really pissed at somebody, I'm going to use this. I'm going to use email A and all the phrases that were thrown at me. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah. I talk a few people off. Sure. I think it's part of the deal. And you get dragged into stuff that you probably don't have any background in, though.

Yeah. You know, I think there's, look, I, I know where my lane is. Like if you ask me about cows or hunting and fishing or, you know, natural resources generally, yeah, I think I can articulate an answer, but you know, you put me on some of these social issues and like urban housing.

It's like, I, I live on a farm. Like, how am I supposed to know what good state policy is for high density housing? You know? So I, it, yeah, that happens. What do you do in those cases? You know, I, I call an expert, you know, what, like the, you, you find a constituent who's got background in it, you know, you have, you do your research and you hope you make an educated and informed decision when it's your time to vote. The one thing with the legislature or in, in city government or county government, any form is like, you got to vote.

Like, it's yes or no on this. And you may not be all the way prepared, but, you know, you can't chicken out. Like, put up or shut up kind of a deal. You're there. Yeah, well, everybody, other people in the exact same situation, you could have someone in your state, someone coming out of a, maybe has a background in urban development, and they're weighing in on ag issues. Yeah. And no one would, no one like thinks the question, right? Well, you know, I think all of us have a good sense for,

well, I'm, I grew up in agriculture, so I have a master's degree in bull. I don't know if I can say it on the podcast. Oh, you got it. So yeah, but I think everybody kind of knows, right? Like if you're an expert matter and you get somebody from downtown telling you how to, you know, commenting on an ag bill, like somebody with a John Deere hat might step up and say, all right, folks, let's tell it to you straight. And, you know, the same thing happens on my end. If I'm totally out

in left field on something I have no business or no idea weighing into, like somebody's going to call you out. And so that's the balance. Like make informed decision. Come up, do your homework, be educated on an issue, but don't just make crap up. Like that's poor policy. Do you think there's any, what do you think would happen if someone tried to do a right to hunt and fish bill for the U.S.? Oh, man.

I don't know. Listen. I can't picture if it would. I bet it wouldn't pass. You know what the most wonderful thing about being in the state legislature is? I don't really care what happens at D.C. anymore. You know, like that world's so screwed up and upside down right now like i don't uh i don't know you know what's going to pass though the right to hunt fish in the state of utah

that's what's going to happen there coming up in a few days 30 days whatever 34 days just right around the corner uh i had this guy telling us one time there's this this historian um i'm friends with the studies like demographics and perceptions of hunting and the way hunting gets covered in media and newspapers and things. And he was explaining to me that depending on how you word it, you can word it approval of hunting and fishing to Americans in a way that there's overwhelming approval so basically to the effect of if you go to americans and you say um do you support like regulated hunting and fishing informed by you know by biological input about wherever okay And really soup it up. Yeah. Lay the whole thing out. Supportive hunting actually is higher now

than it was in the 80s. The minute you put any particular to it, it starts to fall apart. Yeah. Well, any little detail, the minute you add a detail, like, you know, whatever, you go like, do you support, you know, whatever you go, like,

do you support, you know, hunting deer with a bow? All of a sudden it's just like, it just goes off. Like people are sort of, they're like, yeah, I get it at a high level. I get it. But don't, I don't, I don't like the little nitty gritties. I don't like, like things that spell out like what exactly I'm saying I support. Why didn't we have this conversation before I ran my amendment? You know, like how do I know if through the eyes of history, this is, I wrote the right thing down on the ballot.

We should have talked before I went to all that trouble. I think you should have gone crazy, crazy strict. Because in your state, you got to strike while the iron's hot. And like, you have a state that has that like, is very, I would, from a distance, I would say it's like very supportive. Yeah, we're red. Very supportive of hunting and fishing rights. Yeah. Very supportive of gun rights. Right.

So I would be doing crazy stuff right now. Oh man. To lock it in. And I'd be like, I'd have a trapping bill, man. You know, the legislative session is starting here at the end of January. If you want to talk about any particular- Dude, I'm going to move down there and run, man. Oh, hey. What do you guys make?

200 grand? You know, you might want to take a lot of zeros off of that, but you'll, you know, go with that. Again, how many state legislator- why can't I say this word? It's a legislator. I'm a legislator. Serving in the legislature. Yes.

Got it. Yeah. So how many of us are there? I think there are 104. So that's senators and representatives. So I'm just a lowly representative. I'm not a mighty senator like they cross the hall over there, but you know. And your term's up.

You just finished your first term. Yep. Yep. Did anybody challenge you in the first time? So, uh, I had a, an opponent in, so I'm a Republican. I had a democratic opponent. Um, I have another democratic opponent this fall. Um, the gal who ran against me against me last fall, she's awesome.

She's a really great lady. She's actually the Democratic nominee for lieutenant governor on our ticket. So you guys didn't go into smear? You guys didn't do smear politics? She's awesome. Did you campaign for her? Look, it's a toss-up who would have done a better job. Clearly, we believe in different things.

She's a lot nicer than I am, I'm sure. But we had a great race. I won about 75% of the vote down there. So my little part of the world is very conservative. I have another lady who's running against me this year. And, you know, I'm optimistic we'll be okay. But either way, the way I like to do things back home and in cash valley where i'm from is you know we look we've got to get along and i i clearly have a set of things i believe in but i think there's

there's good people and good ideas in the whole world and i i've i feel like um one of the things that i did in my last race i don't know if you want to go off on this tangent. It's a little bit of a tangent. No, if it has to do with, this is like the Get Out the Vote episode. Yeah, let's go. I think it's maybe. If it has to do with how partisan politics is ripping the country apart, but then someone can point to an area where it's not, that's great. Okay, we'll go with that. Where the whole country is not going to burn alive and stuff? Yeah. Okay. So one of the things that was really important to me was that in the face of what I think is – we should all be embarrassed about where the state of our current national politics are.

We should all legitimately be embarrassed. And so when I ran last session, I actually wrote an editorial that basically said this – the person running against me is a great person. And you look at all the stuff that she's done. She's done a fabulous job. She, she pushed for some propositions that passed and they were, they were, um, fundamentally motivated because she lost, it was on healthcare and she lost her mother to cancer and watch that happen and watched all the money she had to spend. So she was advocating from a real position and she did a really good job. And we may have differed on the particulars, but she was sincere in her beliefs. And that's what I articulated. And I said, look, we are, she's a good person. We just have a different, a fundamental different view on some key issues. And that's the difference. And like,

why can't we just talk about these differences or, or heaven forbid, find ways to wade through those differences in a way that's going to be beneficial to the, to our whole community, you know, and that's, I, I feel like we've stepped up and done that in our little part of the world. I don't believe at a fundamental level, politics has to be a zero sum game. I think we let it be that way. And I think we're letting national leaders create this narrative that it's us against them. And I don't think it has to be that way. I think you can literally stand on your principles and say, look, this person, I do not disagree or I do not agree with them on all these issues.

There's probably a whole bunch we do. There's probably a whole bunch we don't. But that doesn't change who they are as a person. I think we got to get past where we're at now. So if you're getting out to vote or you're supporting a candidate or whatever you're doing, like let's in your own neighborhood, in your own way, you know, county council or whatever you're doing, let's push that debate. That's a groundswell I'd like to see is where we start treating each other like Americans, like people, and just have debates about issues, not about – right now all we do is have fights about who we are. Yeah, yeah. It's a waste of everybody's time. Do you have kids?

I do. How old are they? I have a six-year-old and a six-month-old. Okay. So little guys. The thing I've been a little bit struggling in conversation with my kids is if you're, like I might be dismissive about a viewpoint that someone else would hold in conversation and they pick up on it.

I now am oftentimes like when some, some issue comes up, I'm oftentimes trying to explain to them, like that person believes what they believe with the same level of passion that like you believe what you believe like you have to try to like get in this mindset of like when you don't agree with someone they're coming from something that feels is real to them and it's not and you can't always just have it be that they're dumb and wrong right right i mean that's a lazy way it's a way bigger thing than that they're like they're dumb and wrong they're telling you

something that fundamentally they know they would tell you they know inside and out yeah and they've thought they've approached it every possible way and have come to this decision yeah weirdly we got into this most recently around and this was like i almost hesitate to bring this up i'll throw this out we don't need to talk about it we're talking about the 9-11 hijackers to get to like to get into um if if you had somehow been able to like converse with those individuals their articulation of what they thought they were doing and what they thought they were trying to accomplish, you wouldn't even be able to approach it. But they would have something that they would like an absolute what we would argue is like absolutely evil absolutely wrong the antithesis of everything we believe in everything we stand for there would still be deep down there some like explanation that that person held

and you're never going to combat it or understand it without like taking the time to like like to try to at least understand where someone's coming from yeah if not it's just like you don't you you wind up with a sort of a superficial understanding of even the people you disagree with like with me like like for instance if i'm a uh in an engagement with someone who let's say someone who opposes the right to hunt and fish you know how would i ever be equipped to combat that if i didn't never ask like what exactly i'm like oh they just don't want us to have fun right yeah are you really gonna get anywhere No. Well, and I think it's how much easier it is to say you're evil or you're bad. I mean, extreme examples aside, let's just- That was a horrible example.

We'll go into a narrow space about how to get fishing. Yeah, but I want to talk about my example. Oh, man. I don't want to go deep, but I say it's a horrible example. It's an extreme example. But I think in that case being I like it came up through I don't bore you with how the subject came up at dinner this is what your kids they because they know about how they've been to the site well this

is my 10 year old oh yeah they know man they sounds like they're pretty well informed kids well I mean the older one knows that that was the thing that I mean at this point like people know that that happened one day. Sure. And it's an extreme example, but it's like with kids, you sometimes have to have extreme examples. Yeah. It came up. Yeah.

And it's a lot easier to just say this, you know, this person, they disagree with my right to hunt fish. They're dumb. They're evil. They're stupid. You know, like how much easier is that to say then, you know, they have an opinion and it's probably based on experience or fundamental belief in whatever they believe in. And, you know, I mean, some of this stuff, majority rules, right? That's kind of how our systems take shape and how it runs anyway. So 51% wins.

And so 49% can have a strong opinion and they're probably going to lose to the majority, right? Like that's just, that's the sad part of politics. But the other side of that is in how you debate and how you engage, that's the part you can control. You can still advocate strongly for your position, whatever it is, and push for your belief, whatever it is, but you don't have to do it at the expense of somebody else's opinions. And that's, I think, where we should all shift fundamentally as a as a country but a buddy of mine the other day sent me a text exchange he was having with someone from pita and i'm reading through the text exchange and it winds up toward the end it takes on this tone of like really we're talking about the same thing like

it's surprising how much we sort of care about that you know and like that from engagement yeah that from being like okay now uh what exactly like what's the problem right you know yeah i think instead of like not not all the you know just like a debate right i run it all the time like when you hear from people if if we get notes from people who are just mad right they're just mad oftentimes even opening up even creating the feeling that there's a conversation people get uh the stress level goes down in correspondence with people. I believe, you know what one of my favorite things to do is? So if I get a really, let's say I get an email that's real, is nasty and mean, but not creative, right?

So I can't file it away to use later, but it's just, I could tell these people are torqued off at me. I will find them, not in a creepy way. Right. But like with the Google, whatever, use the, use the white pages. I, I will go and find out where they live and I'll just knock on the door and be like, hi, I'm Casey Snyder. We've actually never met in person before, but we've, you know, had correspondence through email. Let me hear your concern. And I've had, you would be shocked,

like the most angry, ardent person through whatever form of communication, when you're there face to face and just being like, tell me what's on your mind. They'll go. And half the time it's like looking down at their feet and like, you know, I was just a little upset and it was late at night, you know, and whatever. But it's just that conversation. It's just talking to people. You figure it out. That stuff does give me hope man yeah it should that when all this whatever this is yeah covid's made it bad too everybody's cooped inside going crazy so your mind runs away with you man yeah I was talking about this the other day, is that all I hear about is how we're all going to kill each other and hate each other.

But then when I go about my day, I just have really positive, I don't understand. How could I still be getting away with having really positive interactions? Yeah. I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I just go through, I just run into people, I don't know, some dude at the boat launch. I'm like, hey. He's like, hey.

You want a walleye? Yeah, man. How is that possible? It'll get there. It'll get there. We didn't even like fight about anything. Yeah, you know. I think politics is terrible.

People are good fundamentally. And I think we'll get there. Let the cameras come off of whatever's happening over there. That's why I say I don't even care about that. I'll just focus on what I can control back home. But let the cameras come off. I think fundamentally we all like each other,

even if we're like really, really mad at each other right now. That's what I think anyway. We'll see. I could be wrong. I was reading, I can't remember who it was, a person in healthcare policy predicting that when COVID ends, I don't know if they're just saying this because it's wishful thinking,

but there's going to be sort of this sort of collective hug and niceness. Let's go with that, man. I was like, I don't know, but I like it. I like it too. You know, we had a little glimmer of that back home. So our cases were pretty low and our county decided to have the county fair, you know, and it was just, we're still going to go forward with it. In person. In person, yeah.

Yeah, we still, in Cache County, we still had the fair and the rodeo and everything else. And there was no spike, you know, at the end of it, everything. No changes. No changes. Just regular fair. Yeah. We didn't let the carnies in. So, you know, there was no fairs.

So that was a change. But, you know, like it was the fair. I love the fair. It felt like I wanted, I walked around the fair. I'm like, just the fact that we had the fair, I kind of wanted to give people a hug. Just be like, you know, it's so good to see you. It was like kind of normal. So I think your health buddy's right.

You know, if my little fair was any indication about like peace and love because we had a little bit of normalcy i i think let's go with that let's say he's gonna be right i fear that we'll forget how to do it like how do you do it like how do you go like that we'll forget like how to just go be around people forget how to enjoy a live concert yeah like whatever like you'd go into a bar and not be like why is this dude like breathing on me or you know like i don't like i don't even go into places you know i mean like i don't do like extra stuff i do the things that i deem kind of necessary but i don't do um yeah i don't do a lot of like extra exposure stuff i think because i don't want to have to go i don't want a lot of like extra exposure stuff. I think we're just going to do it. Because I don't want to have to go,

I don't want to have to have someone call me and tell me I got to lay low for two weeks in my house. Yeah. That's like what I'm worried about. You'll be all right. You'll be all right. It's like, I mean, you know, the cliche is ride a bike, right?

Like I think it's a lot easier just to be nice than it is to ride a bike. I think you'll be all right. I think you won't, you'll, that fist bump will come right back. You'll be beyond alright. You'll do it with so much more exuberance. It's like if you hadn't ridden a bike for two years and you get on one and you're like,

oh, this is fun. Remember this? Pedal, pedal, pedal. Stand up. Woo! Yeah, I'd be like, it feels so good to have this drunken man spitting into my face. I don't know where you're going when this COVID thing's over. You might be at different places.

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onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX club, y'all. All right, so turn our attention now to the— I don't know if you realize this is a very bipartisan affair because Juanita's a county commissioner who's a D. But that's a county commissioner so i think yeah different state too you guys aren't in competition with one another but i think casey and i have yeah i think our values probably align oh i would tell i want to tell everybody a couple things because here's my primary issue uh with i i approach this different ways with Juanita's upcoming election. One was that I would just tell people because it's in Missoula County.

How many people live in Missoula County? Our census hasn't been done yet, but 119,000 maybe. That's a sizable constituency. Second largest county in Montana. We're kind of a big deal. Billings are number one. Yep. Or Yellowstone.

Yellowstone. I thought about taking this two different approaches. I was going to tell people, it doesn't matter anything about any detail about Juanita, it doesn't matter. Just go down the ballot, get to the bottom, probably mid-range, I don't know where they're putting it. Probably down. Down way low.

Go down there, look for Juanita. No, look for Vero. Vote look for varro vote varro use alliteration oh vote varro go down to the bottom find varro and just check it under the assumption that most people who vote in missoula county aren't getting that far on the ballot nothing against missoula but i just know from my own habits i often like i said i peter out toward the end like you get there it's like oh my Senators! Like, you're all excited. And then, you know, a lot of people just kind of leave it off, right?

What do you think of this strategy? So, I wanted to do, where I just told people to go find Juanita, the details didn't matter, nothing about her mattered, just find her as a favor to me, vote Vero. Check the box. But then I came around and I thought that I wanted to share greater detail.

Fantastic. Juanita lives in, I don't know what you call your house. Juanita lives where you, she lives on the ranch where she was born. That's, I was a month old my folks were working on another ranch for a year before they came back to the ranch okay but your grandfather lived there oh for sure and my great-grandfather okay so she lives where her great-grandfather lived all right on the county yep okay same county she lives where her great grandfather lived Her grandfather lives And you were born on some other ranch

But then moved there for a month And you live in kind of like a I don't know what the hell What do you tell people you live in With a great many bats My great grandmother's cabin with a lot of bats Not far from Rice Ridge Where you were in Sealy Lake

Juanita's Her property It's like Juanita's family like wholly owns the property, but the property where you live is in the block management program. It is one of the early block management. My grandfather was part of bringing that to the western part of the state. Is that right? I think block management, Yana, you can check this.

I think block management started on the eastern side first in Montana. But it came over to the west side. So we had problems, the story goes, oral tradition goes. We had problems with people cutting our fences, trespassing, shooting horses, what have you, driving around, causing hell. And my grandfather decided to take some of that management into his own hands. with his mother's purse gun in his glove, like shooting at people he thought were trespassing or were hunting not how he wanted them to be hunting,

which is problematic. So with the help of a neighbor who is a little more of a statesman and working with our game warden, figured out that this was better to involve the public and to have this block management program where people are a little more invested because it's walk-in only too.

So if you're walking in, you're not driving. It's a different type of hunter. I don't hunt or fish. What do you mean you don't fish? Oh, okay. I fish with Juanita many times. Juanita, when fishing, likes to dispatch the fish. Yeah, because I don't want to, I'd rather die quickly.

Man, you watch. She thinks it. We're going to go off here. You watch a little perch that's been like frozen for like four hours suddenly come to life in your sink as you're scaling it. Yeah. Yeah. There's a bad, yeah, yeah not good she doesn't like

if you throw a fish in hell for people like you throw a fish in the boat and it's flopping around in her mind it'd be like if you had a deer flopping around in your car put it out put it out of it gotta put it out yeah you're the mercy killer she yeah she undersells her hunting and fishing credentials i am i'm constantly reminded that i'm not from a fishing culture as well from both these two and and and and my nephew reminds me of that because i i don't i don't have the feel you know the hook goes all the way into the fish like in its guts before i decide before you're aware of this yeah before you're aware of the fish's presence on the other end of your line. So you're. But so, yeah. So back to the block management, it was just this really beautiful arrangement where you'd have Fish, Wildlife and Parks and Game Warden do the management of the folks.

My grandfather wasn't running around trying to shoot at people. People were respecting the landscape, respecting the access, and not tearing up fences. And, of course, there's also some self-policing going on, too, which is really great because you have other hunters out there. They're watching. Yeah. They're other hunters, you know, and make sure everyone's following the rules. And so we've had a lot of success with our block management program. We don't have to, you know, it's open to the program. We don't have to, you know, it's open to the public. You don't have

to tell us. You don't have to get permission. You don't have to call us or sign up or any of that. It's, I mean, you have to park at the appropriate places, but. You don't even have to sign in. You have to sign in, I guess. No, not that. There's no sign in. For block management, just

for people to understand, block management is a horrible name. God bless whoever came up with it, but block management, it's a public access program. It's like one of those names that no one would ever know what you're talking about. Yeah. Well, you look at the icon, there's a hunter with a rifle shaking hands with a rancher on a horse. It's a great icon. The icon speaks it all. A rancher shaking hands with a hunter. But yeah horse. It's a great icon. It's a great icon. The icon speaks it all. A rancher shaking hands with a hunter.

But yeah, block management is a public access program. So point being, you live in a place that is open to block management. You, when you got married to my brother, you got married to my brother within sight of the bones of your grandfather. Intentionally, yes. Buried in the family plot. It's not a plot. It's a pasture.

But like a pile of rocks. Yes. Yes. We put a pile of rocks on top of him. Yes. Like right there on the property. Yep. And oftentimes, I know that my wife told me this.

You never told me this. But oftentimes, when you have a decision to make, is it true that you go out? Oh, shit. Yeah. Don't talk about this? No. Someone just a couple of days ago, you know, Ed Robertson from Mountain Prairie. Anyways, was asking me the same thing.

But yes, I do. Your wife is very observant. I didn't know this. Juanita goes out to visit the bones of her grandfather when she needs to make a decision. Yes. And even when my brother's off hunting on their anniversary, Juanita gets dressed in her wedding dress and goes out and sits on the rock where she married my brother by herself. To be fair, his brother brothers only missed one anniversary. Oh, he only missed one.

This year. I think it's cool. This year. We celebrate our anniversary. I put the dress on, get the same bouquet, some champagne. We take our vows and friends, whoever's around, we stomp out to our wedding rock and reevaluate our vows. And yeah, it's great. And this year, COVID, and what was it, goats?

I don't know. Some hunting season issue. So my husband couldn't be there with me so i was at the rock by myself i knew it was gonna happen but yeah yeah point being i think uh all that i'm only bringing this out like i'm not even gonna get into um how generous you are and how very kind well no not only that but how um you're a wonderful aunt to my kids without any fanfare in fact like children don't like doesn't like kids kind of lets the kids understand that she doesn't like them, but within that, they love her because they know there's no bullshit.

They're like, that's a mean lady, but I like her because she takes me horse riding, gives me snacks. I can tell that she's got like a threshold. There's a threshold there. She's cool about it. I get it. I love her more for it. A wonderful aunt.

I think you're a great aunt oh that's that's really kind of you thank you I'm pointing out all this um your generosity compassion

let me tell you another this is my favorite Juanita story Juanita gets can I talk about when you got your car crashed is this making you uncomfortable

no I'm I'm Juanita gets in a car crash with a guy okay a guy destroys Juanita's car he turns out he doesn't even have a driver's license or has no insurance or something he has no insurance Juanita gets in a car crash with a guy. A guy destroys Juanita's car.

Turns out he doesn't even have a driver's license or has no insurance or something. He has no insurance. No insurance. I'm on the phone with Juanita being like, well, how are you going to go about sticking it to him? What are you going to do to go after him to get your money out of him? She has to interrupt our call because he's calling her because she had called him to check in on him and make sure he's okay. Yeah, that was, I've never been in a car accident before. She took pity on the dude that killed her car. Yeah, but it was super icy roads. It was highway 200. All three of you know it. Super icy roads, and this pickup truck just slid right into my face.

It was— Oncoming. Oncoming, yeah. And then she made it her responsibility to pursue to make sure he was all right. I'd never been in a car accident before. I mean, this is my home road, and yeah. Couldn't get out of my car. Had to, like, crawl through the windows.

Everything's dark. You know, I was worried. It's pitch black. I was worried that someone was going to hit my car, which is black and very small on a dark highway. And I got out of my car. Then I was wondering where I was supposed to go because someone was going to hit my car. And I was worried that I was going to get hit again. Someone came and picked me up.

And then we turned around to go find the guy who hit me because I wanted to make sure that they were okay. And first thing we did was when we saw each other, we gave each other a big hug. And I value that so much, not just because now we're talking and we're in COVID. This just happened almost a year ago. But, yeah, and then he worked up in Sealy Lake. And he was telling me he didn't have insurance. And I was like, dude, keep quiet because there's other people around. But we were just so grateful both of us were okay.

And, yeah, and I didn't – I know he had stuff going on and tough gig. And I was – I have insurance. He doesn't. And I'm not – I mean, he's going to go get insurance. I don't need to i can tell you one thing i'm gonna do yeah no we we and we we kept in touch but uh there was no need to wreck his life and i mean man he's my neighbor like yeah point being i think when uh i just want to implore people and this is only of the 300

how many million people are in America right now? Yanni? 360 some I was going to say right at 300 several hundred million individuals in America 130,000 of them will encounter your name on the ballot

Vote Vero. And I'm not getting into the pot. I don't really know what kind of... 328. Oh, good job. 328. I don't even know what the hell the issues are in your county. I don't really care.

But I know that in terms of how you conduct your life and the connection you have to the land where you live and your compassion for the landscape and the people around you i have a feeling i'm saying this to the voters out there i have a feeling that you will take your responsibilities seriously and do well by the individuals who put their faith in you to make good decisions. You're going to make me cry, Steve. Yeah. So when you go to vote, go down and like, that's your person. Nothing to say bad about the person running against you, but that is who I want.

If I was living in that damn county, that's what I'd want for my county commissioner. That's well said. And I can't disagree with you. And I think it's like what Casey was saying earlier. We were talking about our local politics. It's not what you hear at the national level. Our local issues, I mean mean this is just this is community members looking out for each other this is the decisions we make is to make our community better

place to live and raise our kids i don't even have kids but i care deeply about all of your kids and kids and yeah that we have here it's sounds so corny, but... No, it's true. So corny, but yes. She cares about kids in the way that in going out fishing, she would say, what are these little people supposed to eat all day? No one has considered this. Something like that.

Yeah, that's fair. Also, selfishly, I like to eat, and so I was wondering what I was going to be eating, too. So, yeah. No, it's—and Casey alluded to this earlier. This is an honor, and it's a huge responsibility. Casey's not doing this for money. And it is just a—it's an honor. And when you really love a place, and I, you know, you love Utah, and I love Montana, and even more Missoula County, the more I learn about it, it's, yeah, it's an honor to be asked.

So I was appointed, and then, so now I have to run to finish to get another term. And yeah, when you feel ready and folks believe in you and like, like you've said, yeah, it's, it's pretty exciting to take that step. Yeah. I think it's helpful to you to talk about right now, just to have a couple, I wanted to have a couple of people in who have issues, but just to, in some way, help bring up the idea that like the people involved in politics and like when you go to vote that thankfully there's just it's individual like it's individual Americans. For the most part, I would venture to guess individual Americans who are hoping to do a good job. It's service. For people.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yep. So on November 3rd, or whatever day after the election. You can do it right now. When our cities are in flames. When our cities are in flames, we'll look back on this conversation today and try to remember. There's good folks out there working for us. And I think it's important to remember that. And again, it's local. Forget about the national noise and remember the action, the rubber meets the road locally.

And county commissioner, honestly, I don't think it really matters what party you're from. I mean, we deal with such a broad range, whether it's someone complaining about a neighbor's dogs versus like our you know what's the correct pavement recipe um to to our budget you know um the it's a it's a broad broad range yeah i follow along on instagram it seems like when you post some stuff about being a commissioner you're always like off doing like things that you probably never even thought you'd be learning about, right? Oh, my gosh. The inner workings of a county. It's fantastic. And it's weirdly like the ranch.

It's like the ranch is this amazing place. Your ranch, probably the same thing. It's like there's never enough JB Weld and duct tape and baling twine to hold the place together. But somehow it works. And in Missoula County, it's amazing staff and amazing engaged citizens who really care. And that's what makes it special. So I'm, man, and we got some crazy challenges to deal with because we're a large county and a complicated county.

And, yeah, we have urban Missoula, which is very different from our largely, like, rural, the rest of the county. I mean, you spend time up in Sealy Lake. Yeah. Yeah. There's some tension there. But that's why I, yeah, I think that this particular commission of which I'm part of, I think we represent that tension well and in a positive way. And yeah, I think we can demonstrate some can-do and even a little joy, which isn't a word you hear in politics at all. Well, I want to, again, thank you guys both for coming on.

Yeah. Juanita Vero, Missoula County Commission. Yes. This is your first up. This is. Because you got appointed, and now you got to go win. Yeah, this wasn't on my radar at all. I mean, Casey, you've been in this scene for a while.

This came out of left field for me. You make a series of poor decisions, and then you end up with a bad opportunity. How long are you going to do it? Oh yeah, are you going to be governor? No. No? No, I like where I live. Oh, yeah, that's right.

Yeah, I like where I live. At a certain point, you got to go somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, and if you won't move to live with my brother, I'd be real dismayed if you move to become a politician i was like well that's better than my brother and casey snyder who's up for re-election is there a term limit where you're at no tell people your district uh it's house district five cash valley cash valley from the mountain man era cash absolutely yeah j Absolutely, yeah. Jim Bridger loved it. And I live in Paradise, which is aptly named, you know.

So you can do two votes here because you can find Casey, Snyder, 5th District. Yep. So all five of you or 30,000 of you that are. Fighting five. In that spread out community. And then also, in Utah, go find your right to hunt and fish thing and vote. It's yes. Correct? Correct.

Yes. You want yes. We want yes. You want to be able to hunt and fish. And if you're in one of the majority of states, it doesn't have such protection. So I hope that other people will be inspired to- Write their state legislators. With their free time, get that rolling in the other states,

and I look forward to a national version. There's a movement starting right here, right now. I can feel it. I think that's what I can feel. Absolutely. Right to hunt, fish, and trap. Right? Absolutely.

Right? And run hound dogs. Right? And shoot a bow. What was the other things yeah archery hunting bait bears chase lions alright thanks guys I appreciate you coming out this is the bipartisan

get out the vote issue we've introduced you to a democrat we've introduced you to a republican if it wasn't for covid I'd make you guys hug that'd be like real they did a fist bump they did a fist bump. Boom. They did a fist bump. There it is.

Partisanship ripping apart America right here in our podcast studio. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians.

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