The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 248: Running with Guns

Episode Date: November 23, 2020

Steven Rinella talks with Taylor Thorne, Corinne Schneider, Phil Taylor, and Janis Putelis.Topics discussed: hand written love letters to MeatEater; shielding Steve from rejection by the Deep Drop Community; photoperiod and how smoke affects hunting; yelling at mallards; living in a camper and traveling around the country with firearms; Steve mixing up 3-gun and cowboy action; breaking down 3-gun; heavy metal; Teacup Jani and Facebox Steve; mag-fed shotguns; do more folks own guns than not own guns?; how Taylor used to race 4-wheelers and qualified for the Junior Olympics in kick boxing; all about the sass; regulations for traveling with firearms; when the closest state trooper won't show up until tomorrow; the pink Sig mosquito; running with guns; Steve loving generalizations; the big money in sporting clays; the lack of women in 3-gun; the ole' tunnel vision; bittersweet Dairy Queen as punishment; taking a Dremel to your firearm; and more.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. Welcome to the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. We hunt the Meat Eater Podcast. You can't predict anything. Presented by OnX Hunt, creators of the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters.

Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google Play Store. Know where you stand with Onyx. Okay, we're joined. The second tailor we've had in a row. Now, whether Corinne releases these or not. Wait, hold on. Don't say that.

It's funny. He's commenting on it. I can't say what? Because of the order. I was just getting into that. Okay, fine. Now he's got to reset the timer again. This might be the...

It's off by 20 seconds. Wow. No, just leave this in. Leave this in so you can see what I have to deal with. Joined by the second tailor in a row, though it might not be how you hear it because that depends on whether Corinne, what she does. Yeah, this might be the first tailor.

I don't know for you. But for us, it's the second Taylor and Roe, both with a great affinity for firearms. Yes. But in a very different context. The other Taylor,

Taylor McCall, he's got a song which could be your theme song which is called Black Powder Soul. Ooh. That sounds exciting. Yeah.

I don't think he'd be too, I'm guessing that he wouldn't be terribly handy with a gun, but has a great affinity for guns. Okay. He'd be good teamwork. Would you back me up on that? Maybe he's handy with a gun. I would bet that you would have beat him in three gun today. You'd out-shoot him?

Taylor definitely would. Yeah. I could probably beat him. I think even today you would have. Yeah. I think he's crafty at fishing. I just don't think he's a crafty shooter. Not yet.

He's getting into it. That was Taylor McCall. This Taylor is Taylor Thorne, like Thorn Bay. T-H-O-R-N-E. From? New Hampshire. New Hampshire. But not anymore.

Well, right. I am on the road. You're still from there. You'll always be from there. Well, technically I'm from Texas. Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah. So the story gets really interesting. I remember now. That's why you say y'all. That's right. I am on the road. You're still from there. You'll always be from there. Well, technically, I'm from Texas. Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah.

So the story gets really interesting. That's why you say y'all. That's right. But you got like a whole confused like I'm from here situation. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, because I was born and raised in Houston, which not everyone knows. Houston is like the fourth biggest city in the country.

Yeah. It doesn't get a lot of big – maybe in Texas it does. It's massive. In the north, people don't – if you ask people in the north to name big cities, they wouldn't get to it. No. Well, and the thing too is that, so it's the fourth biggest one, but people say, like when I moved to New Hampshire, they're like, oh, you're from Texas, you're roaming with the

cows. I came from Houston, a concrete jungle. Like it was illegal to own farm animals. And I'm like, um, so y'all are roaming with the cows literally right so it was a culture shock for sure yeah those are the hillbillies yeah but they thought i was the hillbilly which was so weird so i moved to new hampshire when i was 13 okay hold that thought for me there's a couple things we gotta take care of uh yanni first yanni's gotta do a thing he's gotta do a favor for a listener we don't often get actual handwritten fan mail man that's not true oh we still get a lot of it

well the its flow to me had become interrupted and i recently discovered a large stash of mail that's why you found that mail to you in my truck. I see. Okay, well, we got one from Dylan Shrupka's wife. Say his name again? Shrupka. And you realize you weren't supposed to say that you weren't supposed to implicate his wife. Yes, she said, if we give a shout out

to Dylan, please, underlined please, don't mention it. I put you up to it. But, Dylan's wife, I would have no way. Well, dude, there's no way you can leave it out. That's how you started. Because how is it going to make her look good if he doesn't know that that's who did it?

Well, that, I mean, what am I going to do? Just say that, you know what? This morning I woke up and I had a dream. And I remembered my dream. And you know what? I was thinking about this name. The initials were D-S. And then I continued to think, and Shroop God thought,

it's just not going to work, right? So sorry, Mrs. Shroop God. Yeah, it's not going to work that way, that's for sure. If you took his name. I don't know. Do you have a way that you could have segued it somehow? No, I was going to go straight on. I was going straight to the wife.

Yes. Because that's the hero here. And would she she's so pure of heart that but like i'm worried about her she loves her husband yeah i want him to know that he that she was trying to do him a solid yeah and he should what and maybe he brings home flowers constantly, does dishes, and whatever nice things he can for his wife all the time. But I would say, Dylan, you definitely need to be doing some nice things for your wife because she sounds awesome. But a couple highlights here from this nice little letter. She says that Dylan has – this is Dylan.

I'm sorry. I'm going to mention this stuff. You're going to get a little mad at your wife. But you have man crush on all of the meat eater guys. Especially Yanni. Especially the Latvian Eagle. That's okay, buddy. I got man crushes myself.

It's totally fine, man. Own it. And she said they listen to the Meter podcast relentlessly. She's learned more about everything in the woods, including turkeys and bears and this, that, and the other, than she ever thought she would. She likes to bust his balls and say that she doesn't like listening, but she actually enjoys listening. So anyways, Dylan, shout out.

And everybody else listening, don't write in for shout outs because we don't often do this. We're just really taken by Dylan's wife. So there we go. That's so sweet. Yeah. Did I mention she had really good penmanship? Very legible letter. Appreciate that.

Another letter we got the the new fashioned way just an email letter which kind of spooked because it's because this guy was writing in response to me becoming a deep drop enthusiast he was saying the the i'm gonna start with the end well he's a commercial fisherman from florida and he was talking about me talking about deep dropping. He says, this is heartbreaking shit. Phil, you should put sad music. Can you put some sad music in over this when you put this together? So he says, anyone familiar with deep dropping would have laughed at Steve's explanation,

and I don't want Steve to be rejected by the Deep Drop community. Where are he... Okay, he's telling me some stuff that I've heard from other Deep... There seems to be some debate in the Deep Drop community, but it's like an objective reality thing. There's not room for two people to be right.

Do we need to explain what deep dropping is did you see the deer in the headlights it's it's when you fish super super deep okay i figured it was something you put it together you're sharp it made sense yeah because what else would you be i don't know at what point a deep drop becomes a deep drop he talks about i it's probably like when you're using deep drop tackle but he's talking about deep dropping in 500 feet, which I think is like, I'm sorry to throw an insult back your way. I think 500 feet's pissant deep dropping. Yeah. Nobody uses electric reels at 500 feet.

He's a commercial fisherman. I don't know. But I think that, I think that the deep drop community is laughing at him. Thinking it's deep dropping at 500 feet. Okay. What else was it about your explanation that was so off? Well, I want to talk about one other thing quick because we had this – when we were out – oh, you were there.

We had this idea that we were going to lower Seth down. Have you heard this? We wanted to lower Seth down into 1,400 feet of water in order to shrink him into a little teeny Seth from the pressure and then pull him back up and just have like a little Seth that would be cast in movies and stuff. Because he would survive. Yeah.

But what he doesn't like is he was saying that – he's saying that – I was talking about how the current's not strong out in so much water. Okay? He's saying you just don't realize how much it's ripping because you're far away from the shore, and so your frame of context of looking at trees going by, he says you're hauling ass. The current's hauling more ass out there than it is in the shallow. And he says that the reason your tackle's always running away from you is you got all that line out and the current's moving faster down deep.

Hmm. And he said, my thing- Well, it's probably not affected by the wind on the surface like you are. Yeah, because he's saying, my thing that it's more like the wind blowing the boat is an optical illusion. Like, you lower your shit down and it's hard to keep the boat in 1400 feet of water. It's hard to keep like your bait directly below the boat. It's like running away from you. I was thinking that the wind is moving you away from your shit.

But he says the current is moving your shit away from you and that's why i would be rejected by the deep drop community for saying that other interesting thing this guy uh this guy named luke you know people always put their name and their subject their like line whatever it's like md phd cpa right? You know what I'm saying? Gotta love those people. This says, no credentials. Love that guy. Love him. Here's something about this.

We've touched on this in the past. Photo period. Can you know what photo period is? No. It's like length of day. There's this idea that all the like the length of day so all the all this stuff in the animal world all the stuff in the plant world is triggered by

length of day things that we might think are contributed are triggered by weather are in fact triggered by length of day without the impact on weather and so like if you look at things like when do salmon migrate right um there's it's probably bracketed into an appropriate length of day window within that length of day window there could be like little things weather could impact how something uses that length of day window, there could be little things. Weather could impact how something uses that length of day window, but the length of day window is fixed. We talk about why do elk bugle?

People are like, oh, they're not bugling yet because it's hot. The rut came late because of this or early because of that. Someone would generally look and say, I can tell you that that rut is occurring in this bracket of daytime length. Because right now you're losing three and a half minutes of daylight every day. Right. So that it's occurring in this bracket. And within that bracket, there could be these minor variations depending on temperature, all of these other conditions. But they're like the main thing that that thing's going by. When a leaf, when a tree loses its leaves, it's mostly going by photo period.

Oh, interesting. This guy has some interesting shit because this guy takes care of solar arrays. And so they have all these sophisticated meters that measure length of day, intensity of daylight. And he's watching his solar arrays during these periods of intense smoke in the west from forest fires. And he said that on a, he's betting on an earlier rut. Because he's like, any way that you'd measure photo period about like intensity of midday sun, length of day, like during the smoke, length of day shortens. Intensity of midday sun diminishes. Boy, you are really going to throw a wrench into some people's planning right now.

That's going to get some people thinking and turning in their beds at night. If they're thinking that the rut could actually be changed by all the smoke this country's had this year. Well, the thing is too, this dude wrote a long time ago. I've been walking around with this email on my phone. But then he was fired up about hunting Labor Day. For elk, I'm guessing. He says, I'm putting all my eggs in the Labor Day weekend basket.

Luke, no credentials, Land of Wyoming. It would not have paid out here in Montana, I don't think. Because nobody had great act, great bugling action early, but that length of day is affected by amount of light or the time of the number of hours, minutes in a day where there is light. Okay.

So my aunt who's affected by the fires sent me a photo. It was like 10 AM or 11 AM in the morning within her living room. And it was just black. Yeah. She didn't have any lights on in the house. It was just dark. It's crazy. Right.

So that makes sense. It's like California. And it's a whole – like that's part of their life. And it's so weird getting used to not seeing – so when I came further east and, you know, northeast from California, it's like, there's stars again? Like, what is this craziness? Because I had actually gotten used to not seeing the stars or even seeing a blue sky. Yeah.

And the sun becomes this weird color and you get so used to this weird environment. Then it blows out and you're like, oh, that's right. That's right. It kind of looks normal. We have stars. We had, speaking of photo period, I remember when our little boy, our littlest boy was real little.

Days are so long in the summertime that he goes to bed when it's daylight, right? And wakes up in his daylight because it's like the nights never end, you know? Or the daytime never ends. Right. So he'd gone like this for a couple months in the summer, which when you're super little, that's like a lifetime. Forever. And we had to go to a wedding one night, so he was up real late.

And we walked outside of the wedding. And he said, who turned the lights out? Because he had like forgot. Really? There's such a thing as he forgot that it was like, even the thing was called darkness because he hadn't seen that shit in months. Wow. Wow.

It's just like always daylight out. And now here, do y'all get where you wake up in the dark and you, okay. I figured as much. Cause that's always interesting. Not even just wake up, but get to work in the dark and leave work in the dark. Yeah. Yeah. I always feel lazy.

Like I, I can't really go to movies in the daytime because when you come out of a movie and it's daylight, you feel like you're wasting your life. You know, it's like better to come out when it's dark. Cause you don't feel like so lazy. But, uh, when I go out to my brother's place in the summer, when we used to drink a lot, you'd, um, in Anchorage, you'd leave the bar at closing time and it's still light out. Yeah. That makes you feel like a real worthless.

It makes you feel worthless? Oh yeah. I feel like it'd make you feel better. You're like, I still have daylight. Oh, I see what you're saying. It's like they close the bar, you can walk outside and you can see. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Could's like they close the bar and walk outside and you can see. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.

Could have been doing something better with your life. All right, last thing before we dive into Taylor's inner psyche. This guy wrote in. So this guy goes down hunting. I never hunted this lake. Real foot lake. You know this lake? I don't think I've been on it but it's in tennessee

correct yeah my brother-in-law hunted it so big ass long email all about hunting real foot lake and how like everything they do is different and he says that he sends in a recording this is like the actual hunt recording and he says that the the guide they're hunting with, that this is normal or real foot lake, to yell at mallards. Yell. And what is the benefit of the yelling?

I don't know. He said that and he said it works. So instead of going like, well, the duck call. What did Ramsey Russell, how did he call it? What was the name of the sound that he made when he said that guys would voice ducks in? Yeah, I think that that's what this dude's responding to. Ankem or, how did he say? Yankum?

Ankem? He had like a, what was the word for it? You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't remember. So this is this guy. He said, you know, play the sound. And he said, this dude doing this sound brought birds in. Sounds like a kung fu movie.

Yeah, play him yelling again. He said this guy started doing it, and he's like, what in the world is this guy doing? And then watches this bird go, come right back in. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. I tell you what. I love it, man.

I'm trying it. That's all it takes. I'm trying it next time all it takes I'm trying it next time I love it way less work I just got an image of Jackie Chan

like doing oh that's what I think of man but afterwards he's defeated his like you know and then it's like

the squeaky floor of him like just walking away it's like that's a good little movie for that yeah he might have been

watching Jackie he might have been watching kung Fu movies real loud and watched ducks kept pouring in and eventually realized that the fight scenes... The ducks started coming in. That's amazing.

Okay, moving on. Taylor, I'm going to give you a choice. Oh. You can choose to, right off the bat, describe three gun, which is your competitive shooter. Describe your, what do you call it? Your discipline, game. Sure.

Yeah. Or explain to people how you live in a camper trailer. It's like, I don't care which one goes first. I mean, it's sort of. They sort of top of the pile yeah i mean and they're intertwined well that's the thing is how do you go from from one to the other is it's super intertwined right are you not going to include in either of those sort of how she got there you can go backwards to get there i think that each based on the some time i spent with taylor i think that each would deliver us to the same place i'm just curious how she chooses to approach it oh gosh

she could be like so i live in a trailer yeah and then do the whole deal or be like so i like three gun yeah so it's up to you i i would rather start with a camper first because that's a more easy bite-sized piece, right? So I started traveling. Gosh, I'm going into five months now. I live in a travel trailer that I tow with my forerunner from New Hampshire. I'm in Montana right now. But what's interesting is that I didn't come straight across the country. I went all the way down to Florida, over to Texas, up through Colorado.

So I've done like these huge Vs. So it's not been from point A to point B. It's been everywhere in between doing shooting competitions in the interim. And it's been an interesting life. Living on the road is a full thing in itself. And living on the road- Have you swung back home during the five months? I flew back home. Okay. Because... Ditched your stuff and flew home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was not going to drive from California to New Hampshire and then back. I just flew back home. Most of the country's not close to New Hampshire.

See, and I think that it is, but... Oh, really? It feels centrally located to you? Well, I mean, because... I think they put Strategic Air Command in Missouri. You think so? Thinking it was close to everything. Yeah.

Well, it's just one of those things where there's so many states in New England, we always feel like we are a part of all these- Just because numerically, there's a lot of states. Because numerically, there is a lot. A lot of people, too. I mean, and there is a lot of people, for sure. And because you have those major cities like Boston, New York, Philadelphia, that's all in that area, you do sometimes feel. Okay, that's fair.

You're right. You know, but anyway, so coming out to Montana, if anything, I definitely feel like I'm out in the middle of nowhere here, but I like it for that. Yeah, got it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So now, because you did that, explain 3GUN and then we'll go way back in time.

Way back in time. Yeah. Taylor in the, explain 3Gun and then we'll go way back in time. Way back in time. Taylor in the past with 3Gun. So I started competing 3Gun and my first competition was in 2016, but I don't count that as a season. Explain it like I'm five years old. Like Yanni's five years old. I would say it the same way. I talk very maturely to five-year-olds. No, but not explain how you got into it yet.

No, but we need to know what is it. What is it? Yeah, someone's like, I've never heard of this thing called 3Gun. Well, I didn't know what the hell. Until yet. We need to know what is it. What is it? Yeah, someone's like, I've never heard of this thing. Well, I didn't know what the hell. Until today, I didn't know what the hell. I mean, I knew just... I was confused between cowboy action, pistol shooting. That's right.

You were asking all these questions about sass. And it's like... They call it sass. It's S-A-S-S. So it's an acronym. They couldn't find a way to throw a y on the end sassy youth like the youth league is sassy you should ask them i bet they would be up for it because they are some pretty sassy people that shoot when i heard when i used to think i had

three gun and cowboy action shooting mixed up Did this like rock your world then? No, because I had it figured out before today. But I mean, had you talked to me a year ago, I would have been, I was a tad confused. Okay. Yeah. Because cowboy action shooting. So these are basically all the sports that we're talking about right now is action shooting sports.

So there's all sorts of different disciplines within competition shooting. Bullseye shooting is that, you know, when you see the guy standing sideways with one hand and his pistol, and he's taking his sweet time to get this super, super tight group with his—normally it's like a.22 or something like that, right? So you have those kind of competitions. You have—sometimes people ask me if 3-gun is like biathlons where you ski and then you shoot the 22 rifles. I guess that might be moving a little bit better and closer to the right direction because you're moving, but it is also, again, very different. And so with action shooting, you are basically running with guns and it's all time inaccuracy. So it's how fast can you shoot these targets?

Running with guns. It is. It's legit Running with guns. It is. It's legit running with guns. How fast can you be and how accurate can you be while you are moving quickly, which makes it a lot of fun. And why it's different from- So you don't, even though we got to keep track,

we still haven't explained three gun, but that's my fault now. You don't, like skeet shooters are not your kinfolk. They are not, but I did spend my first three years of competition shooting in

sporting clays. Oh. Yes. Okay. So we'll hit that when we do the deep dive. Okay. So back to three guns. Maybe I don't think I knew that. No, you did not. Okay. Fun fact. Why is it even called three gun? Because there's three guns. Yeah. Three times the amount of fun. It's awesome. So pistol, shotgun, rifle, and you transition between all those firearms under a course of fire, which is basically that obstacle course that we had set up today where you shoot all these different targets. And what's interesting, and we didn't even talk about this today, is how flexible these competitions could be and how the stages can change. So what I mean by that is you could have a three gun competition where you only shoot one gun in a stage, but the next one you might shoot two. And then one after that, you might shoot three. So there's an infinite.

Are the stages like holes of a golf course? I mean, maybe I'm not as familiar with golf. Well, it would be like, like in a tournament. Okay, good. I'm like, am I? Well, no, like in a tournament. Like we did it one stage today, correct? Correct. Okay.

So we did one stage today in which you shot rifle. We shot rifle at one, two, four or five targets. Shot a shotgun at half dozen targets. Shot a pistol, maybe, I don't know, ballpark, nine targets? Yes. In that order. So that was a stage. But in a tournament, all of a sudden you move to a new –

Yes. But how many stages might there be in a tournament? It depends on the level that the competition's at. So your average local match, that's what we call them, is match, will be maybe anywhere know, maybe anywhere from like five to seven, depending on the size of it. Oh, so you get to do what we did today, seven different setups? Yeah.

Oh. That's way better. Well, and Travis was saying that the- And you just rotate. Travis was another fellow that I'm guessing you know well. You guys seem like you guys were buddies. But he also shoots competitively, correct? Yes.

Maybe as a pro even? So for those of y'all who are listening, we're talking about Travis Gibson of MGM Targets. Okay. And is he a pro three gunner? Yeah. Okay. Still now? Well, he's definitely in industry.

Yeah. Very well known. When he was saying that he had one recently where he shot 16. Really? Stages. Yeah. Oh, wow. Is he former military?

Is it bad that I don't know? I don't know. I don't know. I don't think that's bad. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not sure. If you're bad, I'm bad.

I don't think so. But I would hate to say if he did have a stint. But that's not how we got into all of this. There was nothing. I know that for a fact. Well, Seth Bergensey was there, and he was former military. Right. But that's, yeah.

But that's different. But there's not always that military crossover, but just a step backwards. So it depends on the size, the level, we call them different levels of three gun competitions. So your normal local match will have, again, five to seven, you know, maybe eight if some match director is like super ambitious.

And then from there you have sort of your, you know, maybe regional matches, if you will. And those will have anywhere from maybe like 7 to 10 to 12. And then your national level competitions will typically have at least 12 plus. Your average national will be right around those early to mid-teen mark. You know what we ought to do real quick? Explain the guns. You're shooting an AR platform rifle, like walk through all the,

and then the shotgun's like nothing I've ever seen. And compared to? I mean, it's the same thing I've ever seen, but I mean, it's like accessorized. Yeah. Yeah, just walk people through the guns. So competition shooters, we have a lot of fun with our gears.

You have your handgun. And so keep in mind, too, that I could spend an incredible amount of time describing this because there's so many different divisions. So you have open division and limited division and heavy metal. I'm not even going to dig into it because— Heavy metal? Yeah. You have to explain that. Yeah, I got to know what that is.

So that—you remember when you asked earlier today, you said, does anyone shoot anything other than 9. Like, do they go for the bigger calibers? That's heavy metal. So those guys are shooting like a 40 or 45. They have a 12-gauge shotgun. And then with the rifle, they're using a larger caliber rifle. So they're not using.223,.556. Those guys will come out with a.308.

Some of them have like an M1 Garand. It's like, it's really cool. But it's a niche thing. Those guys are like in their own. Because you guys are totally mainstream. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry.

Do you have any idea? You guys are like Betty Crocker cookbooks, man. How many competitive three-gun shooters are there in the country? Do you have any idea how many competitive three-gun shooters are there in the country? Do you have any idea? It's hard to say numbers, but when you guesstimate, so when I've talked with people about marketing in the past, what we have said is that, like, let's say you have a social media account or whatever it is. If you gather 10,000, you probably have most of the market the market right so that is the number that i could come to the table with you it is yes and no so it's the pre-covid yes right now oh yeah everything everything yeah yeah so it's it's a really weird time because firearm ownership is obviously

rising exponentially um but competition shooting isn't. Everybody traveling somewhere and getting together and having a hoedown is down. Well, no. So the problem is that most of the competitions have been canceled, right? So I was supposed to have hit the road back in March, but then nationals got canceled or postponed, I should say.

And then another area match got postponed. So all these things have been either postponed or canceled. Right. So that was a big issue. So how are you supposed to get more people involved if we are postponing or canceling all the competitions? But when – and I still want to get back to the walk through the guns, but real quick. When did someone first utter the words three-gun tournament? It wasn't 10 – was it 10 years ago oh no longer than that okay 15 20 um i would say three gun tournament yeah um match they call them oh sorry match like you

could have gone to a three gun match a decade ago oh absolutely okay yeah so uh the the og guys i mean they they come back from you know early 2000s and it all started um it was like a law enforcement match basically where they ended up inviting um you know people who were non-leo and then you young whippersnappers started beating them at their own game it just evolved yeah it evolved so. So it's been around for a while. But maybe because of sources like YouTube, I think, is probably why it's gained perhaps more public light because it's getting more exposure. Where before we were just kind of doing our own thing and then no one maybe knew about it. Does that make sense? Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Okay, do the guns, but do it like, if you imagine one being on a sliding scale, a one treatment would be rifle, pistol, shotgun. Okay. A 10 treatment would be like this trigger tuned this way. Okay. This upper, this lower, I seracoded it. Like that's one in 10. Sure.

Hit me with like a five. Okay, you want the middle of the road answer. Like a five, the guns. Yeah, sure. As a five. So I'll try not to dub it down to like a three or a four, but you have your handgun, right? Again, it depends on your division

as to what handgun you are going to shoot. But typically we're looking at nine millimeter when it comes to three gun in particular. There's other disciplines out there where it can make a difference, but we're going to leave that out of the picture. And I'm just saying that more for the listeners who are like, what about major power factor? We're just talking about three gun right now. So I know that listener. Yeah, that listener. Right. So we're just talking about three gun. So it's going to be a 9mm semi-automatic. So today we were shooting SIGs, the X5 Legions.

Is that what you normally shoot? That's my gun. That's what I have. Yeah. So that's what a lot of people are going to be shooting is a striker firearm like that. And then you have a lot of really great limited or open guns that you could introduce as well. So all that is doing, just so y'all are know, those are custom-built firearms that are made out of, they're all metal, right?

All metal. Like think of a 1911. Are you familiar with the 2011? No, 1911, but not 2011. Hey, imagine everything you love about a 1911, and then you add twice the ammo. Oh. Oh, yeah.

Because they're staggered in the magazine or what? Correct. So it's a double-stacked 1911. Yeah, but it's like a Glock pistol's staggered magazine, right? Because that's why they're so burly in the hand grip. But a Glock is a striker fire. It's a polymer gun where a 1911, it's nice and it's heavy and it fits great and they shoot nice and flat, right? So 2011s are typically custom-built.

I mean, you have some that are factory-built as well, but in some form or fashion, there's some sort of hand fitting going on. So they tend to be pretty expensive. Then open guns. So at the end of the AR, you know how there is a, you know, there's a compensator at the end, basically. There's this muzzle brake. Yeah.

So you put that on a pistol. And when you put that on a pistol, along with some other things, and again, I'm really dubbing it down. Did the pistols we were shooting today have that? Oh, no. No, no, and again, I'm really dubbing it down. Did the pistols we were shooting today have that? Oh, no. No, no, no. Okay. You would have known.

So again, for those listeners that are going in, I'm dubbing this down to probably a three right now, right? Okay. I'm not going to get into open guns in its entirety because you could see my enthusiasm. Oh, yeah. Sure. Yeah. But you put-

But you want to go 11. Oh, I want to go 11. But you put a compensator at the end of those pistols. That's an open gun. That is going to keep you shooting just flat, flat, flat, flat, flat, flat. It's awesome. So there's different divisions, but they're mostly all going to be chambered in nine. And you shoot open sight too, but you do use a red dot.

Okay. So just so people don't get confused, open guns typically have optics on the handgun. What Steve meant, what open sight is iron sight. Yeah. So I was shooting an iron sight firearm. But you do both. I do both. So I had the week before nationals, both my primary and my backup, red dot went down in the same week before nationals.

So I went back to irons. And I just haven't gotten the gumption to buy two more. And because I live on the road, right? The warranty thing, it doesn't really matter because shipping is a nightmare. So yay, they warrantied it. So I have one sitting in New Hampshire somewhere. You got to predict where you're going to be and have it meet you there. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know where I'm going to be to. How are you breaking all those? I had a red dot and my kid broke it in like five minutes. What? Well, yeah, because here's a glass thing to put on the end of a gun. What do you think he's going to do with it? That's no excuse. He instantly broke it. He broke it in two ways.

Like, broke it twice. Completely unrelated breaks. Wow. Because I mean, you... Strip the head on, strip some of the hardware. He's an animal. Well, and then broke the glass. You should have him do R&D for these companies.

Acted like he didn't know what happened. Wow. That's impressive. Well, I am really rough on this stuff. And mine just broke sort of because I think that it's over time, right? So the electronic component was no longer functioning. So what happened is you would turn on and I would think it was on. I'd start to engage targets and then the dot would just disappear,

which is really inconvenient when you're in the middle of a stage. Yeah. Yeah, and that happened to both. That makes you kind of like iron sights, just the reliability. Yeah, I know. It's sad. Ask some more pistols. You got more?

Yanni, he might have a lot of pistol questions. Hopefully that explains the pistol a lot. No, no. I think we're pretty – I was just going to say we can move on to the shotgun. Yeah, the shotgun. We're going in backwards order, I guess. It doesn't matter. It could be whatever you want.

Yeah, you taught us in backwards order. Why do you say that? Because we started with – Yeah, but she had a reason. I know, but – She had a reason. Yeah, yeah, Because of the stage. I know, but. She had a reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had my reasons for that.

So what Steve was saying is that I, you know, the stage we shot today was rifle, shotgun, then pistol. But that's not fixed either. It can be. No, that was just today. Okay, gotcha. But I taught them pistol, rifle, then shotgun. So that's why he's saying I taught backwards.

But anyways, that's a different conversation. I had reasons for why I did that. Johnny's new nickname is Teacup. Teacup! By the way. I love that. I think it fits you very well. Well, I told him earlier that it was going to really suck to get whooped and burned by a dude named

Teacup. And guess what happened? Teacup won. How does that feel? What was my stage name? Oh, wait, wait, wait. Face box. Face box. Face box.

This is good. Yeah. I poured dribbled tea all over your face box, buddy. I am so sorry. This just brought up a lot of really weird questions.

We'll step away from that. So the shotgun. That is people ask me all the time. What's your favorite gun? And I hate answering that. Didn't you say that earlier? Someone asked you like, what's your because it depends on the application, right? So it's all dependent upon the situation as to what my quote unquote favorite gun.

But I will say if I'm having a bad day, the shotgun will always make me happy. There's just something so fun about that scattergun. And the other thing is I do think it's really versatile, right? So the shotgun, you could do close quarter stuff with it, right? You could do home defense. You could go hunting with it. You have birdshot. You have slugs.

You have buckshot. And then you could choke it to different patterns. So there is a lot of versatility with that firearm. But the shotguns that we use for three gun are semi-automatic. There's some heavy metal guys that like to torture themselves with pump, but that's very, very rare in this competition. Most everyone's going to be semi-automatic fire for the shotgun. And then 12 gauge. Real quick on that, on the heavy metal guys. So a pump, a guy could theoretically be competing. I should point out to people that they're competing for time.

Like you have to hit the targets, but it's like doing it all really quickly. So a person would go toe to toe with a slide action shotgun. They'd go toe to toe with someone shooting a semi-auto and still have a prayer to win. If they're good enough, there's very, very few people that are good enough to do that. Uh, but there are one or two out there who, who do, and you have to have the shotgun for it, right? Because as y'all know, there are some pump action shotguns that are just smooth as butter. It's like it practically does it for you. And then there's others that like forget about it. Like that's not happening.

So semi-automatic and then 12 gauge. Technically per the rules, some like 20 gauge would be acceptable, but no one does that. You're just giving yourself less BBs to have on target. In my personal experience, a 12 and a 20 gauge when you're shooting semi-automatic shotguns have about the same amount of recoil. So I don't see the benefit. Hey, folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness, do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes.

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With an extended tube. Oh, that. That extends out the end so far that I thought that your shotgun was going to hit the tube. Right. The gun was going to hit the tube. Right. The gun was going to actually blow the end of the magazine off. It does not. Because it's sticking out way past the barrel. It is.

So these shotguns look... It's a solid foot, right? They look really crazy. A 14-shot tube. It's all the tube is what you're seeing. So the barrel is a normal-length barrel. If anything, it might be slightly shorter than what you would use for sporting clays or whatever. But the tube is what you're seeing. So the barrel is a normal length barrel. If anything, it might be slightly shorter than what you would use for like sporting clays or whatever. But the tube is

yeah, it's too much. Is that a 26-inch barrel on yours? Or is it 28? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 28 is like way too long for this game. There's no use for it because most everything that we do is pretty close with a shotgun, right? You might get some aerial clay presentations, but it's so far

in between you're not wanting to because the maneuverability factor because that mag tube is already so long i mean you don't want to add the weight because weight is a big factor you get so fatigued i mean corinne you know because my shoulders are yeah oh is your shoulder uh bruised up from shooting today no i don't think so it was just just, you know, when I was that gun just kept kind of Yeah. Yeah, just like stopping and, you know,

and then I was like, I just took breaks in the middle because my shoulder's just posturing and holding it. I was just a little tired and I just they got, they got burny. Yeah. Weights, weights huge. So I just had a whole chain of thoughts go through my head that was probably an 11 in terms of like oh all the fun accessories i have on my shotgun so i'm gonna reel it in a

five so i'm gonna drop it right there so what i shoot just if people are curious is a brada b12i which is basically the same as a benelli m2 right which is very comparable to what you were shooting today with whether it be very similar platform. But with an aftermarket, like, specialized. Everything. Yeah, yeah. So you strip it down and put all new parts on it. A lot of it, yeah. So Dissident Arms is a very, very common aftermarket company in the competition world.

So that crazy handguard, the trigger guard, the trigger, you know, everything. And then Briley, which you all probably know just from regular shotgun shooting. There's a lot of those parts into it. So it's pretty juiced up. It's pretty fun. Yeah. Yeah. So you spend a lot of time wrenching on your gun.

Yeah. Yeah. It's fun. That's what we do. Are there rules and regs about what you can do to your firearms? I mean, I would imagine because then people might have unfair advantages. But, you know, is it very structured? Is it very kind of boundaried around what you can and can't do

or people can get really creative? So yes and no. Again, it's hard not to spend – and I don't want to, you know, spend the entire time because I could talk like for probably an hour talking about the different divisions and what's acceptable within those divisions. But in a nutshell, open, which we talked about before, that has a compensator, that has the optic. You could pretty much do whatever you want, hence open. It's open to possibilities. You could do whatever you want as long as it's safe, right?

So some people will get really, really into their trigger work, and they'll make it too light. And so now the gun is unsafe because they breathe on it, and the trigger is going off. Oh, so they might. That's a problem. So the whatever the hell. It's not a league.

There is some governing body that checks on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. So it just goes upon the division that you're in is dependent. So a shotgun mag fed shotguns are huge now. I would say about three, four years ago. It's a mag fed. So you know how the pistol and the rifle, those are magazines. Got it.

It's the lingo. But that's the thing is, again, I am used to talking to people who this is also their world. So I love questions like that because I forget about how much is our lingo. Plus, there's no like there's no mag fed shotguns. Oh, yeah. I should say no. In like in the mainstream and in the in the hunting world. I mean, like unless you go back to the old like they used to be mag fed bolt action shotguns yeah we had a couple of those laying around yes but just so like just rare right well so two three years ago

someone came up to a competition with a mag fed shotgun everyone would sort of brush it off because we're like they're going to have so many malfunctions anyways they're not going to be competitive where now people show up with a mag fed shotgun it's gained popularity incredibly uh it's serious business as someone who's shooting a tube fed shotgun we can't really compete with that so again that's why we had different divisions right i want to explain i want to explain quad loading real quick oh my god your face so that was taylor has like a highly accessorized like a belt that holds all the magazines. It's like a tool belt, very sophisticated tool belt. And on it is a thing that holds, how many, eight shotgun shells?

So y'all's had eight. Mine, I have two. I have one for eight, one for 12. Okay. And it stacks them so that you can just reach down blind. I don't want to try to get too much detail here. You can reach down blind and pull away four shotgun shells stacked like a stack of two and a stack of two. And the stack is end to end.

End to end stacked. So you're holding, your hand is gripped around four shotgun shells stacked end to end. Then she like in a sort of moment of magic turns the shotgun upside down so the

feeding apparatus is facing up. Sure. And then loads with one press of the thumb these are just freehand shotgun shells loads with one press of the thumb. These are just freehand shotgun shells. Loads with one press of the thumb, two into the tube. And then two into the tube. But in like a couple seconds. I don't know what the hell it is.

No, it's less than that. It's like a, I don't know. It's about. Three tenths of a second. It's like two shells, two shells. Yeah, we were talking about tenths earlier because in competition shooting, we talk in tents a lot. And they're like, what? You're down to that level?

And I'm like, oh, yeah. Okay, all right. Let's reel it back up to seconds. You know, quad loading is really something. It is. I could picture a world duck hunting where it'd just be two that you'd have one of those things. Yeah. You'd have to hook to the shoulder strap on your waders.

Do it. And just – Yeah. Instead of like digging around in your pockets and shit looking for them, you just be like, wham. It's so much more efficient. And that's what's funny. It's coming in today. So normally people – and again, this is where I could talk about this stuff forever, the evolution of loading a shotgun.

Because used to people would feed them in with their thumb one by one, which is maybe even how y'all do it right now. I don't know. Yeah. Grab a cup in your hand and you fumble around, drop one, load one. Oh, forget that stuff. And then dual loading. So used to, because I could dual load like eight rounds in about, I would say, you know, four to five seconds, something like that. Right. Which is very respectable. And in my opinion, because I say, you know, four to five seconds, something like that. Right. Which is very respectable. And in my opinion, cause I have really small hands, I was like, if I could consistently dual load, then what's the, what is it worth to start quad loading? Because it could go wrong real side, you know, sideways real quick. Um, but if you fumble the shells. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but if you become proficient at quad loading then you're that

much more competitive so coming in today i'm like am i gonna make these guys quad load and then i'm like hell yeah oh no it was good to know yeah you guys have got to quad load there's no excuse i'm not going to start you off at these baby steps we're just going for it and i'm so happy because they'll look on your face you were like I could just see you being somewhere hunting. And you're like, I need a quad load. You know where that'll come in handy is on like a no plug snow goose hunt. Or even just like, just do not, you can't quad load with, for ducks. Cause it's the three shell maximum, but you can still dual load.

Oh, for sure. Oh yeah. I mean, if you imagine. Just that whole, sorry to interrupt, but just like the different... The way you flip your gun up and then how you put your thumb and orient your thumb and the way you

push it in there, you're a lot less apt to get like the messed up thumb from jamming it in too far like everybody gets at some point. You know, your thumbs are cold out there in the duck blind. And this is just like a much more efficient way to get that business done with. Okay, hit us with the rifle now. Okay, the rifle.

So the rifle is almost always going to be an AR platform rifle, a chambered in 5.56. There'd be no way to hold your own with any other thing. Oh, I mean, people do it again. They do? Like I mentioned earlier, people it again like i you know mentioned earlier people come out with you know fun like uh enfields or emongarans or whatever they're having fun but that's the most competitive platform that's what most everyone's going to do regardless

if you're in a limited and open class or uh tactical class most everyone is shooting uh an ar that's chambered in two two three,.556. That's really it. The other people who are shooting different rifles, those are the outliers. Those are typically your heavy metal guys that are just like, we're here to have fun. I got my grandpa's gun and we're, you know, the bayonet. Remember, you nearly, Giannis nearly stabbed a target. It was impressive. Yeah.

So they'll put their bayonets on and have fun. And is it always – it's not always scoped, right? Like you can use a red dot too. Correct. So if you were shooting limited, you have a – that is an unscoped rifle and limited. So you have iron sights and then – so I used to shoot limited. I did it with a red dot, which is unmagnified. So I've literally just got that one little dot. So they'll let you use a red dot and limited. Correct. Yeah. And then, so I used to shoot limited. I did it with a red dot, which is unmagnified. So I've literally just got that one little dot.

So they'll let you use a red dot in limited. Correct. Yep. And then. Just no magnification. There's no magnification. It's just a dot. And then when you go up to tactical, which is what we were doing then, that's when you introduce magnification.

So today, I think, so Vortex, we had the Strike Eagle, which is, I should know because I had one years ago, but it's like a 1 to 6, I think. Yeah. And then all the way up to the new Vortex Razor, which is a 1 to 10. And that's a beautiful scope. And on that, I don't know if this is something I think people that hunt will appreciate is you guys have a little contraption for dialing magnification. Like normally when you dial magnification on a scope. That accessory piece that Travis makes. Oh, the cattail.

Yeah, you got to grab it like you're trying to kill a chicken. Normally when you go to dial magnification. But you guys hook that little lever on there. Yeah. Which just lets you like whoop. You get like a major mechanical advantage. All these things that us. Yanni walked, I don't know if you noticed, he walked away with one of those. Oh, whoop. Yeah. You get like a major mechanical advantage. All these things that us. Yachty walked, I don't know if you noticed, he walked away with one of those.

Oh, you did? Yeah. Ooh. I don't know what he's going to do with it. This slow nod is what's going to be right now. I don't know what he's going to do with it. He's like, oh yeah, I did. I'm sick of trying to kill chickens when I want to dial up.

Yeah. No, it makes dialing up, like really gives you like a strong lever. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You can't. No, why would you not? I mean, but that's the thing is that we tend to get into our gear.

That's why earlier I was so enthusiastic about talking about all this stuff because we are a, how do you say, like Yankee ingenuity. If you think of it, you could kind of figure it out. Yeah, and the quick dial, what was the name brand on that quick dial? View change? View, what was it? Ooh, that quick dial? View change? View? What was it? Ooh, I wish I had mine with me.

Either way. Yeah. Cattail, right? Yes. Looks like a cat's tail hanging off there. The reason that comes in handy is the first thing you got to do when they say go is you got to shoot three targets at 100 yards. They're like eight-inch plates, eight-inch steel.

Yep. And then you got to all of a sudden shoot a bunch of shit that's super close. So you might dial up to make the hundred yard shot good, but then you got to really quickly be ready for like short shots. Yeah, close. And so that saves you a lot of fiddle farting around having that cattail. It does. But I imagine even for the hunting world, there could be a great application for having

to do a quick change. Yeah, but then just like stuff to catch on stuff. That's true. But the ones that you have, that top half, the part that you grip onto folds down. He did. Like I said, he walked away with one. It's going to be great. Yeah.

But it is interesting. There is a lot of, I think, things that could potentially go from the competition shooting world into the hunting world. Yeah. Oh, no, I was paying attention to that that i was looking for technological transfer you're taking notes uh and i think just like some of the the mind frame stuff you know just like staying calm under pressure all that kind of stuff is helpful but uh you didn't you didn't grow up shooting guns no no like almost the opposite, right? In a way. I mean, because I grew up in Houston. It's a huge city. And even though it's in Texas, like it's not – not everyone in Texas has like a gun per se. Were your parents like gun-friendly people?

Oh, they were fine with it. I mean if you live in Texas, even if you are in Austin, which is the most liberal city in Texas, there's an assumption that firearms are still okay. Like where in New England, if you go to some of the states there, like, like especially Massachusetts, you start talking about guns, like people will have, you know, act like you have three heads. Yeah. It's like a general kind of naughtiness. It's yeah. You feel it's like a taboo, which is absolutely terrible.

But I did not grow up with firearms. Like you grew up like no guns in the house. No guns in the house at all. Yeah. And moving to New Hampshire. Is that normal or not? I bet you more American households don't than do. I grew up in New York City.

With a gun in the house? Plenty. I did not say anything to anybody ever. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely taboo there. You're like, no, I got a whole bunch of them. Hidden under my parents' bed. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely taboo there. You're like, no, I got a whole bunch of them. Hidden under my parents' bed.

Right. Oh my God. Don't talk about that. Were you asking if it's common for people not to grow up with firearms? No, I was just wondering like the split. Easy to look up. Well, it's changing now. 60% of new firearm purchases are people who didn't have guns before.

So it's definitely changing. Yeah. Yeah. So whatever that number was, it's different now. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. But I mean, so my stepdad used to hunt.

When we moved to New Hampshire, it was because my mom and my stepdad got married. But his version of hunting was like he would take his muzzleloader and walk around in the woods. It was like a stroll, like a leisurely stroll. He stroll he got a deer i think like 15 plus years ago once um i'm so sorry but that's how he i love you that was his groove like take a muzzleloader go out sneak around in the snowy woods yeah but he never shared that that was never a part of anything he didn't drag you along no no i was never a part of any of that. Did he like actively not invite you or just? He would just disappear in the morning. I mean, he would wake up early and he was gone.

And then he was. He was catching a moment. He would show back up. Yeah. He was having his moment. So, I mean, whatever. No hard feelings. Because I, you know, I used to race motocross.

I had like my own thing going on. So, I. Well, you were into dirt bikes. Well, so I actually. You saw how tall I am. I race four wheelers. So, if I raced a dirt bike, I would have been sandging on like a 70 cc with a whole bunch of 12 year olds so with a four-wheeler i could ride a 450 and be with you know normal adult and aged people and you got into that in new hampshire

yeah yeah well because behind uh our house which is in dumbart new hampshire uh it's all conservation land it's called clough state Park. And Clough State Park is a huge ATV trail system. And so I got into it from there. So I would ride my quad right from my mom's house into the state park. So when you were growing up, so you did that competitively? Yeah. All right. Are you sort of in your head, like if you're going to do something, it just turns into competition? Are you getting the the sense so when i used to do before uh leaving houston uh kickboxing was big so i had actually you like to have like a winner you have you like to do shit where there's winners yeah well so kickboxing i actually qualified for the junior olympics uh shit yeah but we couldn't

uh we couldn't afford it because the olympic trials were i think in michigan or something like that and so we i mean we couldn't afford to go and then my mom was like and we're moving to new hampshire and there's no good dojos up there i mean i'm sure that there maybe was but not to the caliber that i was used to before we had we had a guy we worked with for a while and he was a he was a skier and was wanting to be competitive and we're talking about olympic skiing and all that and and he was a skier and wanted to be competitive. And we were talking about Olympic skiing and all that. And he was saying something interesting that there's a point at which your ability to, like as a young skier, there's a point at which your ability to be competitive

is tied to the economics of your family. Yeah. Because he's like, rich kids, they ski six months of the year in North America and then they spend six months a year in New Zealand. And he's like, you're not going to catch those kids skiing six months a year. No. It's just like there's a major function of just like naturally talented, even if they come from bad economic backgrounds, if they have the gumption to market themselves appropriately, they could yield that economic benefit. You've got to have the sass. I'm so sorry. I just got an image of all these cowboy shooters and Steve just being like, look at you sassy people. But yeah, I mean, and again, I don't see. So this is what happens when you shoot three gun. You come home with a whole bunch of random ammo like in your pockets.

TSA loves that. No, they do not. That's why you travel the country living in a camper. Yeah, I deal with TSA. I don't deal with TSA. Well, I still deal with TSA because I do still fly. But so I'm actually I'm coming out with a camper. Yeah, there's no TSA. You don't have to deal with TSA. I don't deal with TSA. Well, I still deal with TSA because I do still fly. so I'm actually, I'm coming out with a piece. I'm not sure when it's publishing

about driving and traveling cross country with firearms. Yeah, tell people where you write for. So I write for guns.com. I cover all their competition related content

and I do kind of other fun stuff as well, whether if it's reviewing firearms or talking about, again, what it's like traveling across country with firearms. Like instructional how to. Yeah.

Do reviews. Yeah. And it's not as bad as, as people think. You just have to be smart, you know, lock your guns in a separate compartment. So if you're in a car,

it's in your trunk. If you're in an SUV, just keep it out of reach. Right. And then have your ammo in a separate compartment. That's also locked. Don't have any magazines preloaded. Every state is different.

Some states, all that stuff is fine. Yeah, but you're giving the recipe to how to be just cool going from state to state to state. To go anywhere. Yeah. Yeah, that's the recipe for anywhere. And other than that, I always keep a copy of FOPA in the glove box of my car. What's that? Firearms Owners Protection Act.

So that is the law that protects you from going from one state to the other. So if you are illegal in point A- Because you might be in a situation where you need to explain it to somebody. Well, so let's say we're leaving New Hampshire and I came down south. So New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, all those states. Everything I own is illegal in those states, but I'm protected by FOPA to drive through those states. And you could stop for gas and stuff like that, right? But you're good. You're good to go. I could drive through all of those states perfectly fine because of FOPA. So I keep that documentation. And I mean, I love law enforcement.

I won't say anything. That's interesting about FOPA. So I didn't know the, I knew, I know of the thing, but I never heard that acronym. No. But you can drive through, but I remember hearing that people get in trouble because you can like, somehow you could be, it doesn't count if you go into New York and then fly out of a New York airport. So I was talking to these law enforcement guys are saying they're always, people are always getting in trouble coming down from Pennsylvania, coming down from places,

flying out of JFK, LaGuardia, and they, they can like travel through legally, but they go to like, they're, but now they're in, they're in the city.

And so, or they're in what's like gathered up by the city, the port authority. So then there you are with a gun, checking it on an airplane, and you don't have the necessary permit to have a gun in the city. Somehow in their view, and I don't know if this just needs to be challenged. I know that it's an issue. I don't know if it's constitutional or legal, but in their view, you had stepped out of those protections

at that moment that you went to check it onto a plane. Sure. I would have to research that. I never got into it enough to understand how that's true, but it's like, you could drive past the airport, but the minute you go to check that gun in that thing, it's like not your – it's out of your car. Like you're separating from research it?

I would have to research it. But their thing was, and it was always people being like, but I thought – and like, no, dude, because you're standing here right now checking this gun in. It's not the same thing as you traveling through with it in your car. I would still – I would personally question that. Now, so FOPA does specify interstate travel. It doesn't stay like, like when I, and sorry, maybe that's my accent, interstate, like as in the highway, it does specify that. So maybe it does get different.

Yeah, like you took it out, you got it out of your car and you're, you know, whatever. Again, I would question it. And there's so much more that we could dig into this. So for instance, I flew out of California recently. So in California, most of my firearms are illegal, right? But I'm there for competition reasons. So there is a actual, I forget what they call it, not a law, but, you know, there's a provision that if you're there for competition reasons, then you're good. And so I could fly and I could drive.

So can you shoot a competition in California? Yeah. Really? I know. I was very skeptical, but a thousand percent. So they have, like, again, you know, whether if it's considered a law or a bill or whatever, where if you're there for competition reasons, you could have those firearms that people generally have thought were not legal in California. So I flew out of California recently with all my guns. But for anyone who's flying, I recommend you just to take everything apart because no one

at the airline understands anything of what you're carrying on you. I mean, they really, they have no clue. So just take everything apart, make sure it's safe. And for the most part, you're not going to get questioned. Yeah, I'll point out to people because I don't want this stuff to be, I don't want this stuff to then discourage people from doing what they want to do and they get overwhelmed by

the complexity of the law. There are a ton of resources online to help you navigate to help you stay on the right side of the law. It sounds intimidating and complicated but in practice in practice, when you're generally going from somewhere to somewhere, like you're going to Canada or whatever, it seems intimidating. But when you go and do it, it winds up being fine.

It's easy to find the resources you need. It's not like people waiting at every corner to be like, gotcha. You screwed this up. It just doesn't have that feel to it. Exactly. And of course, right, there's a disclosure that it's up to people to do their own research to make sure that they are doing the legal thing, right? Don't use the podcast as your guidance. Well, I heard. I heard on Meat Eater. Where did you hear this? This is what I should do. So anyways, do your research. But at the end of the day, it's actually really easy. And for the most part, law enforcement or anyone you might run into, to be honest, most of them have no idea what they're looking at.

There are some out there who are super, super educated, and a lot of them even compete. But for the most part, they don't know what they're looking at. And you're probably more educated about it than they are. That's like a funny little – yeah, I want to get back to bio. But like a funny little charade you need to go through at some airports is they want to inspect it oh oh and you open it up like they like they're not even pretending to know but they're like they know that they're like the air that the person checking you in knows that they're supposed to like inspect it but they also know that they're not going to bullshit themselves like they don't know what

they're looking at so like you open it they look down and like sure sure you close it back up because they're like i don't know what the hell I'm looking for. They have no idea. And it's like, because they want to feel like they're doing the right thing. I think that's what's happening. They're like, yes, that appears to be a gun. That is a gun. You can close that back up.

That's all they do. They just look at it and they're kind of like, and this look goes over. It's not a dead snake. It's like, no. And sometimes when they want you to show clear, it's like, okay, well, what position? Where do you want me to point this to show you that my firearm is unloaded? Because we're in the middle of an airport. At your kneecap on the scale.

But normally when you do that, they're just kind of like, oh, no, no, it's fine. But I've known some competition shooters who'll take their AR right out and remember that charging handle, they'll just go, whack-a-whack-a-whack-a-whack in the middle of the airport just being like, yep, it's clear. I think that's why most people that do have to do that are very like, you open it, they're like,

hey, it looks good to me. Let's not get the gun out and play with it. Let's just put it back in the little box. That kills me. Okay, so not many guns growing up. No, no, no. Then all of a sudden, you're like, I'm going to get me a gun.

Well, so almost, yeah. So I had gotten out of a long-term relationship. My high school sweetheart. What happened there? I was 23. I mean, you just, it's when you're dating someone

from 16 to your early 20s, just imagine. Really? You guys met in high school? Well, technically he was homeschooled and I wasn't. But I always say high school sweetheart because it's easier for people to rationalize it. Well, how'd you meet him? It was like at a party.

You know, it was just like a. So he would party. We're here to say a lot of people homeschool their kids because they don't want them to party. Yeah, well. A lot of people. He was a partying homeschooled kid. No, it's like a big part of homeschooling. This is not universal.

A big part of homeschooling is they don't want their kids to find out about dirty words. They're going to do the opposite. They don't want them to party. They don't want them to know about certain things. It's kind of a way to be like, I want my kid to just know about what I tell them. Steve, what other socializing would they get if they didn't go to parties? They're not in school with other kids all day. You know what I mean?

Yeah. It's just, it's like a way to control what goes into their little brain. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, his parents did it for different reasons just because they didn't feel that the public school system was doing, you know, the best education. Yeah. But that's, you know, whatever.

I'm just speaking just of a segment of that world. So when you say like, I was partying with the homeschoolers, it just seems funny to me. I think we should maybe name this episode Partying with Homeschoolers. Or Running with Guns. I don't know. I can't decide. Running with Guns is way better. It's way more fun.

I'll tell you now. You like that better? Partying with Homeschoolers? Yeah. So there you are. You're partying with a homeschooler at 16. Yeah. Yeah.

Was he drinking? No, I don't think so, actually. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. So he's like, no, no, I'm cool. And you met him, started dating. Yeah, we started dating. And then it's like any relationship when you're in your early 20s where, you know, there's just immaturity, right?

There's jealousy. There's immaturity. You're not mature as a person. They're not mature as a person. And you grow out of it so i i had gotten out of that relationship and i remember it was like heck to find a place for me to live by myself i you guys were living together well yeah i was 23 i'm not you know gonna be at my mom's with my boyfriend yeah but you didn't so so um you're not married now no okay no yeah so i'm sorry if I'm not within the traditionalist.

Oh, no, no. Give me a break. Come on. I'm always curious about whether people are married or not. Yeah. So you guys split up, couldn't find a place. Yeah. And I ended up finding one place I fell in love with in Salisbury, New Hampshire.

So Salisbury, New Hampshire has no police department. And so now living by myself for the first time as a single female, I'm like, okay, well, if something happens, I'll dial 911 and the closest state trooper will show up whenever he can. And I don't know when that's going to be. Tomorrow morning. Tomorrow morning. We got someone heading out that way tomorrow. Pretty much.

And that's when I looked into buying my first firearm. And so in high school, I actually, I used to wrestle again with the fighting background. And one of my assistant coaches, I knew he used to do competition shooting. I reached out to him to wrestle again with the fighting background. And one of my assistant coaches, I knew he used to do competition shooting. I reached out to him, Chris Mullins, his name, he's a sweetheart. Oh, to be like, hey, if you were going to buy a gun, what would you? What would I do? Because I didn't know what to do. I mean, like I said, my stepdad was just not, you know, like a gun person. He hunts once in a while. And so I reached out to him and he was just like, hey, you know, I have a couple of firearms. So it was a Glock 17 and it bred a 92FS.

You could try them out. And then I actually work at a gun shop. So if you want to buy one after, I could sell you one. So I was like, great. Who worked at a gun shop? My friend. Oh, I got confused between your dad and your, you called the trainer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Who also liked to shoot. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it worked out. So it worked out really great. And that's when I bought my first firearm, which was a Glock 17. And actually, so I had like a false start before that. I went into a gun shop and I told them I wanted something for self-defense.

And I'm sure if there's any women listening to this podcast who've tried to buy a gun for the first time, maybe they could relate. I said I wanted self-defense and target practice. And self-defense, what I mean by that is home defense, not concealed carry, but just home defense. At the time, I couldn't imagine myself concealed carrying. And so they showed me a Sig Mosquito. If you know what a Sig Mosquito is, it's like- Its name implies smallness. And it does. It implies, and it was pink. And I abhor the color pink pink and i just felt so insulted by the guy so is he like little lady here's i got just a thing for you my daughter has one of these and i love it i'm like oh my god like do you what did you not hear what i just told you i want something for

home defense and target practice and you're showing me this little 380 whatever so i got the glock 17 um shot with that for a little while and actually really started enjoying it so i used to go to the firing line by myself and just practice um and and i i thought again it was just it was different when you go to an indoor public firing line the people who go there as opposed to when i joined a club a gun club it's a super different mindset would you get like hit on by guys just non-stop if you went down by yourself to shoot a pistol at a gun club it's a super different mindset would you get like hit on by guys just non-stop if you went down by yourself to shoot a pistol at a gun club um are they like she's here look she must be here looking for a man no well i think i had a serious enough attitude to where i

kind of thwarted a lot of people um i sometimes i feel like i'm not you were there to shoot yeah like i put on my game face like i'm not there you, you know what I mean, with a V-cut shirt. So it's catching all your hot brass or heels or any of that. Because there's definitely women that I've seen at the firing line where I'm like. Hot brass. Keep that in mind, Corinne. I have scars. If we don't go with partying with homeschoolers, hot brass.

These two scars, that's hot brass from the AR. Are you serious? And actually this too, that's hot brass. Yeah. So when you shoot off of a barrier, sometimes what will happen is it will hit that wall

and it will come back and it will get you. And so you have little scars on your shoulder from hot brass. Yeah, oh, that's, yeah, there's all sorts of other stuff.

Yeah, that injures you. But the point being is, no, but that was certainly. But when you were down there at the shooting range initially, you were just like, I'm just going to learn how to use this thing. Yeah, that was it. And then you kind of got like, I want to be better and better because I have to compete and I'm super competitive. Well, I wasn't.

Oh, well. I guess it was eventually going to evolve to that. Right, right. You could see right away where this is going. That wasn't my thought, though. So what had actually happened, so I started dating someone new. And he was like, hey, I have a clay thrower. You want to try shooting a shotgun?

And I said, sure, yeah, whatever. So we shot it, you know, throwing clays in the backyard. And he's like, wow, you were, like, way better than my buddy that I took out last weekend. Like, way better. And I'm like, really? Like, I don't know. You just aim it and shoot things. Like, I don't know what the problem is.

And so about six months after that, again, I got more into my handgun practice. And he was like, well, I've enrolled you in your first sporting clay competition. And I was like, what? And he's like, yeah, I think you could do it. I'm like, okay. Was he into these competitions? No, no. So he just saw like a real talent.

Yeah. And so he put me in that. And so I stuck with sporting clays for a few years. And so I would say about a year after sporting clays, because again, I really enjoyed my handgun. And then, you know, as any... Well, what's that world like, the sporting clay world? In terms of... Like the competitions and stuff. Oh, it's so different. So I love sporting clays. It's much more genteel.

Oh, yeah. i mean and but the thing is that being a younger woman going into sporting clays oh i got all the special treatment like you know oh you want to use my fancy side by side to go to the indoor bathroom as opposed to using the power to potty oh yeah go take it like i don't even know who this person is like that used to happen all the time or i like i would either hand carry my guns or when i got more gear i got like a little buggy they'd be like oh no you could put your gun in my cart and stuff so and that's coming from what that's like guys that you mean it's like guys scamming on you or guys like being like little ladies these are the like little ladies like

it's these are the people in your squad so that group of people that you shoot with uh because they they just want to help you out. They do the same thing for junior shooters. So it's like, it's more of a pity play. No, it's not pity. It's like they, it's gentlemanly. It's gentlemanly.

Okay. And they want to, I got you. It's like the equivalent of like opening the door. Exactly. Yeah. But the other thing too, is that they want to encourage more women into the sport and they want to encourage youth into the sport. So any way that they could kind of sort of take care of them,

they try to. Did you feel it was over-encouraging? No, because when it came down to shooting, I mean, yeah, we meant business. Just because they were nice, like, you know, and now and then didn't mean that. I didn't think that they meant business otherwise. And in the three-gun world, it doesn't...

It's very different. It's not, there's no, it's, I can picture just from the crew we're with today i could picture that they would be maybe better able to play a quality but probably don't do the chivalry is that not true okay so. So, sporting plays is a fun sport. It tends to be a little bit older of a demographic, if you will. And I'm just generalizing, okay? So, you people out there listening who do sporting plays, right?

There's nothing I like more than a good generalization. Way to ruffle people's feathers. Generalizations are sometimes a little bit helpful. Right. I get the complexities, but now and then. that's the thing yeah i mean it's like now they're like like lay it on me like i can picture all the ways that these things are like it's just it's more laid back right and so people they have it's very typical for them to have their carts and they're smoking their you know cigar leisurely we say cart you need a golf cart uh

no i'm talking like the 20 to 30000 to $30,000 side by side. Like the Razors. Oh, these guys are high rollers. Yeah. And I mean, but you have to keep in mind with sporting clays, they could have, you know, like Perazzis that cost like $20,000 plus, that one gun, right? So there's big money into it and they make big money. So three gunners, we don't get paid anything for winning competitions, sporting clay people they do.

Yeah, because that's even like, do any colleges have three gun teams yet? Because there's colleges that have sporting clay teams. Yeah, no, you're right. And to be honest, I don't know of any, but maybe. I'd be pretty surprised. Yeah, so there are colleges that have action shooting teams, which is generalized. So they'll shoot USPSA, which is action pistol shooting. So there are colleges with that. Yeah, for sure. We're three gun. We are, I don't know how to explain it. I like to think we're more of a fun crowd. But yeah, I mean, there's chivalry is there. Like if you are a gentleman,

you're going to be a gentleman no matter what. And I think that shooting sports tend to attract men who like to be chivalrous, right? Yeah. But at the same time, they aren't going to little lady you. They're going to assume that, you know, at the end of the day, we're competitors, right? So you're a guy. I'm a girl. Like, yeah, sure. Hold the door open for me.

But I'm going gonna try to beat you you know and they recognize that but it's also a team sport too like remember when we were stage planning we were trying to we we feed off of each other so it's very supportive it's a very supportive community how many women do you encounter in this community um so my social media handle is nh3GunGirl. I am the only girl in New Hampshire that shoots 3-gun.

Now, there are some who do it now. You could go with the NH. I know. I've been told that I should add the in front of it. But there are some

other women in New England who have picked it up, which is great since I started shooting. In Florida, it's pretty common. It's popular in Florida? Yeah, down south.

What are some hot three-gun states? Definitely Florida and Texas. Those are two huge ones. I'm going to say top of my mind, Florida and Texas. There's all sorts of other ones, right? We just had the Pro-Am in North Carolina or South Carolina. One of the Carolinas, I should know because I was signed up for that match. But anyways.

But you weren't able to make it. No, no, no, no. So there's that. They're everywhere. They're everywhere. But like percentage? And percentage-wise? Oh, gosh.

To be honest, I don't want to be held to a percentage. But low. If I had to generalize, it's going to be low. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I would say less than 10%. Oh, no kidding, really? I would say so. Again, but low. If I had to generalize, it's going to be low. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I would say less than 10%. And sporting clays? Oh, no kidding, really?

I would say so. Again, but it depends. Was sporting clays more, was sporting clays greater female participation? Maybe slightly. What's the word I'm trying to say? Participation. Participation. But again, I don't know what other areas of the country are like.

In New England, there was not a lot of women in general. There it was it was common for me to be the only female in a sporting clay competition um so and you compete against dudes though well of course yeah yeah because it's like wrestling there's not if i didn't go against dudes who else am i going yeah there's not enough to support like a female division right yeah gotcha exactly and then and you stuck with that sport and clay business for how many years? A few years. Yeah. A few years. But I still like to shoot the pistol. Well, so I had started researching 3Gun, I think

year two into it, but I spent all that time. How many years ago was this now that we're in? How many years ago from today? Years ago from today when I was in sport and clay. So it would have been 2015-ish. Okay. 2015-ish. And. 2015-ish. And so I started researching 3Gun and it's like awesome.

I started watching YouTube and I'm like, holy smokes, I need to do this. But there's a lot of gear involved. So it took me about a year plus to save up all the gear to shoot 3Gun. I mean, and I always tell people,

if you want to shoot 3Gun, show up to a match and people will lend you their gear. I'm not making this up. You could be anywhere in the country and we will take care of you. Period. The end.

Email the match director beforehand. Tell them what you have and what you need. And we will put it together. I'm serious. Anywhere in the country. What took you a long time to assemble the gear was like, you mean saving up the money to buy it all? Well, that belt that you were talking about earlier,

you described it as a tool belt. I've done some math on that. When it comes to the belt system itself and every single mag pouch and the holsters without ammo is close to $400. Yeah. Right? Because you think every – Just that Velcro thing. That's a nice belt.

Well, because you have all those mag pouches. And each one might be $40. Right? And then your handgun holster is $60. And then you need the ELS attachments that go onto it. This is Safari Land, for those of you who are listening who know what I'm talking about. And then that costs money, and it just adds up.

Very quickly. Very quickly. It's all modular, too, which is one thing you're pointing out. You can just swap out different sizes of holsters and, yeah, crazy. You can get into it. So the shell caddy that I use, I'm sorry, I'm going back to 11. No, I'm going back to 11. No, I want to go to a nine on this belt real quick.

I don't want to derail it. I want to go to a nine on the belt. The belt's the slickest thing in the world because it's hook and loop Velcro. And you run the fuzzy. There's a belt with the fuzzy part. And you run the fuzzy part, the under belt, through your normal belt loops. And then you got like a fuzzy belt on. Then the belt that holds all the accoutrements is the hook. The hook portion of the hook and loop Velcro.

That goes on over. I feel like people in the trades. Should have one of those for everything, right? It's so much more. I don't know how. If I was framing houses, I'd be right now going out and being like, I'm switching my whole belt situation. I'm getting me a firelamp belt and putting DLS on my hammers. I'm going to get a hammer loop, a couple of nail pouches and shit on that setup, man.

Yeah, yeah. Instead of spending your whole day trying to pull your pants up. How smart. That's true. Well, so it's very similar to a law enforcement belt because it's so rigid. It's so rigid. And when you have that inner belt system that is really tucking it close to your body, and then you have what we call the outer belt, which is what you're talking about that has all of our attachments on it. That is such a rigid system because there's so much weight. I mean, when you think about it and you felt it,

I know you felt it. I saw it like that twinkle in your eye because when I first started shooting the Legion, which is a tungsten infused SIG 320, right? It's a heavy gun. You feel it on your hip after a while because especially with women where just the way our hips are shaped and the way that belt sits on you, it just like, it starts to bruise after a while. I don't know. I don't know what happens, but your body just gets used to all that weight. It,

I don't know. But when I first started shooting, even just having a Glock 17, which is just a light polymer gun, I was like, oh man, this hurts. And now I'm like,

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When did you shoot the first tournament? That was in 2016. But how do you go from like not oh steve you don't even like you just start like you just find out about something get the shit and go you don't like spend like years like getting ready to compete let's go over a quick story so taylor's first shooting season this is me i, I'm talking to the third person, sorry, was in 2017. My first competition, like full season, 2017. By the end of 2017, I started and have now ran for four years the biggest three-gun match in New England. So I went from being a person who just started shooting three-gun to putting together and running a full-fledged match by the end of the season there's the enthusiasm do you feel like you have um

do you kind of have do you feel like you have like a mild form of uh what's the word i'm looking for not you're like like a like are you obsessive about stuff like i'm not like a uh like a savant or no like do you have like do like, are you obsessive about stuff? Like, I'm not like a, uh, like a savant. No, like, do you have like, do you, but do you feel that you get obsessed with something and then like it runs its course and then you wham, jump into something else? It depends. Like if I talk to you in five years, are you gonna be like, oh no, I'm a competitive sailor? Who knows? And then you'll be like, oh,'m a competitive sailor who knows and then you'll be like oh good at sailing and some and someone will be like used to shoot three gun till i have no

idea oh yeah i'll shoot three gun competitively two years ago i mean i'm a little bit i don't know what my cycle is going to be you know maybe but do you feel like you'll be way into something different in a couple years i don't think so uh i i don't think so. So my evolution of sports, each one met its end for its own reason. The thing that I love shooting for... So it's not just that you drifted away? It's not that I drifted away. No, not at all. What ended kickboxing? I moved to New Hampshire.

They had no good dojos. What ended shooting shotguns? Well, that was three gun. I got into three gun because I was like, meh. That's not a natural end. That's just you getting into something different. That's what that involved. It's still competitive shooting. It's still competitive shooting in my opinion.

So you don't think that you'll – in two or three years, you don't think you'll be into some whole new thing but like way ass into it. In competitive shooting, absolutely. Maybe I'll get into PRS or maybe I'll get into something else. 3-gun holds really close to my heart. PRS. Tell people. Precision rifle shooting. I think that a lot more of this audience will probably know about PRS more than 3-Gun.

It's easier to picture. It's way easier. When someone says Precision Rifle Shooting, you're kind of like, yeah, I got it. Like, ghillie suit, rifle. No, it's actually, it's a ton of fun. And I think that if you're a hunter, you should do a PRS match just to stay sharp on your skills. Not saying that 3-Gun isn't transfer should do a PRS match just to stay sharp on your skills. Not saying that three-gun isn't transferable, but PRS is directly transferable to hunting for sure.

It's awesome. Here's a question for you. I don't know. I'm trying to think how to frame it. I think it's safe to say that clay shooting is a derivative sort of of hunting of wing shooting of course i think that they feed each other right like especially people who like to shoot quail like guys that are like way into to things that are very like you know uh heavy shooting like a lot like a lot of opportunities um you go out for quail you go out for dove like those there's a

lot of crossover between quail and dove hunters in sporting class but like three gun is very strikes me as like very military okay but you don't have any like you're not out of law enforcement you're not out of military are you like an exception and that you didn't come from military and law enforcement not at all most people who do three gun do not have a leo or military background i would picture like if it wasn't if the war on terror if there hadn't been the war on terror i feel like three gun wouldn't exist but that's wow really yeah because i feel like it's like fascinating perspective i just feel to the table with. Well, no, I just think it's super informed by, it's like very informed by like moving through targets. Sure.

Like I've thought about this before on the podcast. Like years ago, I was invited down by the third special forces group. I got to go down to Fort Bragg and watch them train and doing different activities. And one day when I was there watching them train, they were training, like, they were training transitioning from their rifle to their pistol. Yeah. And it was, like, on the move, going through with targets. And it was all about, like, how smoothly you can move back, forth, back, forth. Yeah. And they were also doing a lot of stuff of, like, going into houses and, like, how to clear houses and move through houses.

Yeah, CQB. And it's, like, that, like, a lot of the movements and stuff seem to inform it. It's way different, but I feel like it's, like, heavily informed by it. It's not informed by it at all. If anything, I believe that competition shooting has been influencing military. Well, that's what I was learning today, different things. It's not informed by it at all. If anything, I believe that competition shooting has been influencing military. Well, that's what I was learning today, different things. Like you guys have little gear twitch, like gear fixes and strategies that flowed the other direction, which is surprising. Yeah.

But you did say, though, that it started basically because LEO were training. Oh, for sure. But I feel that it branched off very quickly. And that you, again, military, we, I have a lot of good friends who are active in the military. They are current law enforcement officers of every facet, right? Anywhere from, you know, SWAT to a beat cop, they'll come out and compete, but that's the minority. That might be one or two or a few guys at a competition out of like 60 to 100 people, right? And at a national level competition, you know, we're going to see a lot more of those guys come out. But overall, because what I love is at a national level competition or one of these bigger three gun matches you have. So the Marines, they have a shooting team, and then a three gun team they have a three gun team same thing for the army amu that is the biggest shooting team in all

the military branches amu uh some other one of those military branches shooting team might be yelling at me right now but it's i think it's kind of known um you know they they have an incredible recruiting program with amu uh dan horner who is one of the top three-gun shooters, he came from AMU. Max Michel, he was Army as well, so that's one of the top guys. But anyways, so there are a lot of military branches. National Guard, they have a huge three-gun shooting team.

So there's a lot of military branches that have these shooting teams. But is it the majority? Absolutely not. Yeah? Absolutely not. Yeah. Absolutely not. There was a couple of things that you guys pointed out to me today is, for you're like parallel in the line with your target comes from trying to like shrink your profile to a potential shooter. Yeah.

And they're like, open up. Like you're not needing to do that. Or another thing with like a military rifle hold in like where you guys – there's a term someone used, like close court. Yep. in, in, in like where you guys like, there's a term someone used like close court. Um, yep. So like a military rifle hold is like close quarter employing your arm, employing your arm to help as a protection to your body. Right.

And that's not needed. So there's like these ways in which you see like little habits people have, I guess from watching the news or watching movies and you just start to like, you think you know how to hold stuff. And then the competitive shooters being like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're doing like a cop thing that how to hold stuff. And then the competitive shooters being like, no, no, no.

Like you're doing like a cop thing that we don't do. Like it's better this way, you know? Yes. And I've taken a lot of training classes before where you have LEO law enforcement officers. And there are things that we do that may not be safe for them. Like, you know, facing straight onto your target. We're not shooting from behind cover. There's all these different things

that may not be safe for them. But for us, we're thinking about time because this is a game to us. Oh, that's a good point. There's no utilizing cover. There is not. So there are different games for that. And at the end of the day,

these are games or great training tools, but they're games called IDPA. And so IDPA does their best to be as realistic as possible. I'm sorry. I have my like little air quotes going. Air quotes going. And that's to train people how to like approach an active shooter situation or like whatever. It's just they give you the scenario.

It's not even about active shooters or anything like that. They give you this scenario hypothetically where maybe there is one, but it's part of the game. They have to shoot from behind cover, that kind of thing. But again, there's a lot of different disciplines within shooting sports. All right, Yanni, what do you got? What are your observations? A couple more questions about shooting and the competition. You're shooting, so there's so few women that you guys are just lumped into one division.

Yeah. So when the results come out, it's not like you're always taking first place in the women's division. You're just taking whatever place it is in the division. Right. Or yeah, in the one that you entered. So where do you, and there's another gal that you mentioned earlier, where do you guys rank against thousands of men? And there's what? There's a handful of you mentioned earlier. Where do you guys rank against thousands of men?

And there's what? There's a handful of you women shooting professionally? I mean, so I consider myself a mid-pack hero, which means that I typically will finish upper to mid-pack to lower to mid-pack depending on how good of a batter day I've done, right? So that's where I typically place. I'm a mid-pack hero. Now, I'm talking overall when it comes to women. There's so little women that normally, you know, I'm high lady overall. That's not, you know, because, again, there's there's that there's that many of us.

So I'm always looking at overall standings in terms of where I complete in that. And what was the other question? Well, you're saying there was a like you mentioned Lena, I think maybe was her name. Oh, yeah. The best ever. She's awesome. Like, has she ever just straight out won? Yeah.

And beat the whole field? So, I mean, gosh, if she shot any locals, I mean, yeah, she'd cream absolutely everyone. In terms of, and I'm so sorry, Lena, if you're listening to this, I can't remember if she's won overall in national competition. I believe she's come close. So recently she placed third in a, I believe it was an area match, third overall, which was very, very respectful. That was respectable, very respectable of her. No prize money. No. We do all of this for bragging rights.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. You could get some sponsorships. You know, you could work with some companies, stuff like that.

And going pro is just you find a way within the industry to make ends meet. Most anyone who is quote unquote pro is, they're just working

in an industry. Yeah. That's it. One facet or the other. Well, she got in that little brain of yours. Do we want to dive into how it was for us? Because, I mean, we went. Yes.

People want to hear this. The meat of it all is that we went and got trained by Taylor, which took, it probably took the better part of two hours, right? Just going. Yeah, longer than that. I'm like putting my head down into my hands deeply right now because they were like, hey, we want to learn how to shoot three gun. I'm like, fantastic.

This is normal. In three hours. This is a two-day class. Then I was under the impression it was going to be one day. And I'm like, wow, how am I going to do this all in one day? And then Corinne calls and says actually it's a half a day and I'm like oh my god you did great I like I can at least now say like what it is I was losing my mind for a little bit because you're pro we rolled in there and

our normal uh you know operating procedures to roll in there and BS with everybody. And as soon as we rolled in, Taylor was like, all right, get over here. We're going safety. I'm like, oh, this is serious. Okay, safety. And then it was like there was a rifle or a pistol on our belt on our thing, and then the pistol on the belt, and we were on our way. I think you're a good teacher.

You don't mess around. It's a lot of good information, but you don't take time. You don't have little canned jokes you do and shit like that. You just get into it, man. It was so much fun. I'd recommend it'd be great for us to get our families together and go and take that class with Taylor again. It's so cool when

kids get into 3GUN. I think your wife would like it. Oh, she'd like it. Oh, Jimmy was already asking about it. He was like, so what does it do? I was like saying he's going to get away with it. He'd come away from there with so many bad ideas. Your wallet would be so empty. No, when he went from knowing about single shot shotguns to pumps, it was just like a whole new thing. Thank God he hasn't seen my gear.

That world would be, it'd just be too much for him to handle. It would be way too much for him. Everything would be hasn't seen my gear. That world would be, it'd just be too much for him to handle. It would be way too much for him. Everything would be a letdown after that. It was so interesting because I did not know what to expect with y'all in terms of skill level. So, obviously you're good hunters, right?

But just because someone is a good hunter doesn't mean that they're necessarily proficient with their firearms. And y'all would know this firsthand from meeting some people that you might have hunted with who may not have the let's say best marksmanship does that make sense yeah just like the whole yeah all that goes into hunters in general and in general this is not to everyone um they like they'll point guns at each other right so their concept of safety is very, very different. In competition shooting, safety is at the forefront of our minds at all times.

And we have so many different rules to make sure we're being as safe as possible. Where in the hunting world, there's just very different perspective when it comes to, again, safety and gun manipulation and efficiency of movement, all these things. So I don't know what to expect with y'all. Yeah, and listen, I want to back Taylor up because if right now you're at home and you're like, that's bullshit, man. You know, I don't see that kind of stuff going down. It's like I can tell you as a guide, weekly, if not daily, someone would be giving you the old tunnel vision, as we called it. And it would get to the point where you'd be like, dude, one more time,

and I'm done. Someone else can hunt with you. You can hunt by yourself. But I don't want to look down your rifle barrel again. Do you understand me? So, yeah, you're spot on. There's plenty of that that goes down. It is, yeah.

Yeah, we kept laughing about they make you go wait in the truck if you make a mistake. Oh, if you get DQ disqualified. Not Dairy Queen. Yeah, we kept laughing about they make you go wait in the truck if you make a mistake. Oh, if you get DQ'd, disqualified. Yeah, not Dairy Queen. Yeah, but what's funny there is a inside joke with, you know,

especially action shooters that if you get DQ'd, you have to go to DQ and eat your ice cream. You don't have to bring it back for everybody else? That's what I think you have to do. No, you're the one who got DQ'd. No, I know. YouQ and eat your ice cream. Oh. And so we. You don't have to bring it back for everybody else? That's what I think you have to do. No, you're the one who got DQ. No, I know.

You have to eat your ice cream. And you have to buy ice cream for everybody else. No, that's not how. Yeah. So because the ice cream is not, it's like a bittersweet, right? And what's funny is that if we're stage planning, there'll be a moment where it's like, oh, I'm not going to eat my ice cream on this stage. It's just like we instantly know what the other person's talking about.

You don't want to go to Dairy Queen. You don't want to get DQ'd. Well, yeah, no. I mean, even the difference, I would have DQ'd just holstering my pistol at the very end of my round. I think I had done everything right. Which round? The second round?

The first. The first round. What did you do? And when she asked me, when you're done, Taylor asked you, she was acting as the range officer, and she asked you to clear the gun and show that your hammer is down. So you open the action, and then you close the action, and then you'll pull the trigger to show that it's completely empty, right? And then you holster, right? Well, just the way that my hips were facing the angle that i was angled off of that

180 degree line that you can't pass and then i went to holster and just that action was enough to basically get my gun pointed back behind me holstering it you know and i was pointing it down at the ground but just that was enough to get it pointed. I wish that would have happened on your second round because that would have meant I won. Oh, it was that close? Oh, I guess if I DQ, then yeah, then you win. If they would have called a DQ, I would have been like the victor. You would be the victor. Yeah.

That's a terrible way to win though. It would have counted. It would have counted because I meant that the other person. My – I feel like you could almost – the first time you do it, like the second time you're going to cut your time in half. I feel like the third time you're probably going to cut it by a third. Then it's probably – then you're probably just – It's going to start plateauing. Then you're just stuck.

Yeah, it's going to start plateauing. So with you guys, it was amazing watching you. Again, we went from the very beginning of the day working on pistol. And so I typically like to start with pistol because that gives you a really good calibration of how someone's overall firearm skills are because that tends to be one of the hardest platforms to learn because there's so much more like with the grip and the stance and how you're looking down the sights a rifle i'm not saying that there isn't difficulty to it but you pretty much you hold it up and you look down the scope and you pull the trigger and you're good to go with a pistol there's there's so much going into it so uh so you got named teacup because you were doing the deal teacup and saucer uh grip right which is sort of like old school fbi, Charlie's Angels type stuff, which is not acceptable.

I do think that there's, I wanted, we ran out of time because I wanted to explore this. I do think that there's like some revolver, there's like some holdover from when people shot revolvers. Right. That your hand position, like the hand position you, people are using isn't appropriate to a revolver. So maybe some people that's the case. I think most of it, they're watching TV and they're seeing improper grips. They're seeing Charlie's Angels. They're seeing all these cop movies like Steven Seagal, all these guys where they're just

like grabbing it for the bottom. And it's like, what are you doing? This makes no sense. We should explain. So the teacup is like if you're holding that pistol in one hand. And you've got your little tea saucer. If you're a right hander, then your left hand, yeah, is like a little teacup

or a saucer underneath it from the bottom and you're sort of supporting it from the bottom. It's not okay. Where in reality you almost make like two fists together. Like they're gripping a golf club. There you go. I heard that analogy earlier today. So,

uh, seeing you guys go from, from that all the way to actually transitioning between target to target. So shooting one target and then shooting the other one while on the move, while, you know, walking with, with the handgun,

doing the same thing with the rifle. Uh, so up close, shooting up close with a rifle is very different from precision shooting with a rifle. So up close, shooting up close with a rifle is very different from precision shooting with a rifle. And with the cadence, because as hunters, y'all are making, you know, one super meaningful shot from a distance. Where with this, I mean, we're doing at least two at a time and you're just getting after it, you know. Things get a little spacey and so when you're running with that gun it it changes things for sure it it really took me a while to be like you don't have to aim as much as you're trying to no it's like it's pretty much the like brown is down all the all the targets

happen to be brown that we shot today that were paper but it's a famous deer hunting line yeah i know that one as soon as you're on paper, you can just squeeze twice. And like you said, there are different rings, but we weren't playing by those rules today. You just said, hey, we just want two hits on paper. So I had to really tell myself like- That's where I think that you guys should- That's why I was going to come out with my own tournament. Yeah.

And shrink those targets way down. So we could do that. So today we shot what was called time plus, which is how much time did it take for you to run to the stage

plus penalties, right? So time plus scoring. If we did something along the lines of USPSA multi-gun like Comstock, then there would be a point system

dependent upon the accuracy that you shot those. Oh, I like that, man. Right? So we could dig into this crazy stuff. Comstock scoring with 3-gun is not normal, but it certainly happens, right? And it is perhaps—

So I could specialize into that. Right. If that meant a lot to me. I would recommend for you to start shooting USPSA matches because that really will emphasize more, more, more accuracy. Yeah, for sure. But again, you know, it was so cool watching you guys progress. And then when we ended on the shotgun, it went showing the quad load. Cause I'm like, I saved that kind of for last because you know how to shoot a shotgun, right? For the most part, if you've shot a shotgun before, you could go into a three-gun competition and kind of figure your way out.

It's just the reloading part. And then, again, circling around to those quad loads, your eyes light up like saucers. It's so cool. Well, that's another cool modification to that shotgun is that the, gosh, I don't know what you call that little part, but basically just when you're looking down into the tube and you can just see the brass end if you have a shell loaded in there, right?

Yeah. And if the gun's upside down, the lip that normally would just be perfectly around it is sort of shaved and ramped so that as you're sliding those two in there, your thumb doesn't catch and you don't have to push it quite as far in there for it to catch. Oh, yeah. I got you. That's a nice modification. Yes. So what he's talking about is the receiver, the actual receiver at the bottom of the shotgun where the lifter is, where the shells go in is opened up.

So we called those milled receivers. So some people go in with a CNC machine. They'll actually mill those out. They have a program for it. And what I did with my first shotgun is I took a Dremel tool and I went to town and you'll find that most competitive shooters, we are, and it's funny because I've ran into other people across country who they teach classes, but they're not in the competitive world. And so I'm shielded. I started, you just heard my story. I started competitive shooting

six months after the first time I bought a gun. So I've almost exclusively lived in the competitive shooting world. I'm not exposed to the recreational shooter per se. And so I'm not made privy to those weird ideas that they have. And one of those ideas is that you can't modify your firearm and have it still be safe. Where in competitive shooting, we will take a Dremel tool to our gun at blink of an eye i mean we we will get right in there and open everything up and make it way better oh yeah yeah yeah without having that like well it's grandpa's old well we're not gonna do that to grandpa's because grandpa's got it's not sophisticated enough for our our purposes

typically we totally we the total length that we actually ran yes which i'll i will say that i don't think i ever actually hit run for me personally i might have gotten to like a uh you have a very long shuffle so you you would do like this this long saunter over yeah i feel like it would almost slow me down if i got up to speed, it would take me so much to, again, come to a stop or slow down or whatever. But again, I just said. You get that much inertia, man. Yeah. He'd blow right to the back end of the course.

We could spend so much time on this. Yeah, so there are. But my question is about this. Roughly, we went 50 yards or so, right? Sure. From where we started to where we stopped shooting the pistol. There were other targets that were farther that we shot with the rifle, right, at 100. But, like, how much is actual – you looked at – when I see you, I think that person's an athlete.

How much does athleticism really play in this? Good question. Yeah, no, that's an excellent question. So I will tell you right now that it makes a big difference, but you don't have to be incredibly athletic in order to be successful in action shooting. Right. And so to give you an example, there's this guy back home. His name is Don Selesky. Actually, he I don't know if he's familiar with y'all, but he's gone to Africa a whole bunch to hunt and stuff. Like he's such a cool guy anyway. So he's this old geezer. He wears two knee braces. Right. And he like has this hunch, but he is like the most accurate person ever. He, he takes his sweet time, but he's just accurate and he places very well. And there, there are a lot of people who don't necessarily have the economy of movement, but they're, when they do pull that trigger, they mean every time and they're very efficient. And so they do well, right?

But when you get up to that upper level, that upper echelon of shooters, the athleticism does make a difference because when you are being very, very conscious of how you're moving your body, that's efficiency. And when we start breaking down to tenths of a second, the difference of like what you said, when you're sauntering over, you'd be concerned about stopping in time. So we do like a stutter step, right? So the difference between having a efficient stutter step into a stop and already having your gun up on a target versus running somewhere, stopping and then drawing could be two-tenths of a second. And that could be the difference between winning or losing a match.

It's like choreography. It is choreography. So you don't necessarily have to be athletic per se, but you have to really understand how to move your body in an efficient way. Yeah, I can see that at a point, like competitively, you can be like a great shooter and have great hand-eye coordination, but in the end, you would save seconds off your time if you were super agile. Right.

And again, it isn't necessary. Like you're improving everything. Like your equipment, you're trying to make your equipment maximized. You're trying to make your procedures and methods maximized. Like you're probably going to wind up maximizing the physical component. Like you want to make everything better. Right. Like how are you using your body in

space are you being specific with your movements or just yeah you're all over the place and it's yeah undermining efficiency i guess absolutely absolutely what observations questions you got corinna i guess uh where where you feel like the application is to hunting and, you know, the speed or I was talking to Garrett earlier and he was saying one thing about practicing three gun is like target acquisition. Yeah. That would have been the first thing I would have said to you. Right. Like if something, if an animal is moving, you're looking carefully, is moving between trees, disappears. There's some kind of speed.

There's some kind of accuracy. You're just trying to dial that in. I've seen more game get the slip on someone because they didn't get on it and shoot when they should have, then they missed. Like, right there, right there, right there, right there. They're like, i can't find it i'm like ah that getting on i think getting on i think the shotgun stuff is really good for like just being fast especially picturing like hunting cottontails or you know quail whatever like wing

shooting i think that just that ability to like see something and shoot see something and shoot i think um that's probably i guess the most obvious ones me and then also just the thing of like learning that mindset of being methodical being finicky about your gear knowing that like this goes there that goes there i do this this is my routine this is my method you know i shoot this way right and um like getting in that mind frame of procedure uh is helpful but i don't know that it would i think that there'd be like more if like if you wanted to just train to uh just train to be a wing shooter or just trained to be a good big game hunter i think you you would find ways to train obviously much more specifically yeah it wouldn't be as much fun

but you could train much more specifically i think that's a great point is working on those those transitions and understanding your scope going from that dialed in you know three power 100 yards all the way down to you know know, 1.5 to a one. And, yeah, I think that there's a lot more applicable with hunting, with shooting. I believe overall competitive shooting makes you very proficient with your platforms, right? Yeah, just general firearm handling. Just general firearm handling. Oh, just watching you guys fiddle around with your stuff.

Oh, yeah. You know that thing. Oh, I mean. You're not like, how's this work? Well, and that's the thing. It's like part of her body. What's this button do? When I first walked into a gun shop when I was, you know, newer to it, you know, I remember sitting there so nervous.

Like, I couldn't even remember how to pull back the slide and have it stay open. And, you know, all those controls just, it made me anxious. And now it's like if I walk into a gun shop, normally if they see me handle a gun, they just step back and they're like, all right, we're going to let you do your thing. Yeah, they're like, who am I to say? They're like, clearly you know what you're doing. But, you know, so, again, when you take it upon yourself to be a better marksman, whether if it's through competition shooting or another avenue, then overall, your understanding of firearms is going to expand exponentially. And the difference between competition just going to the range of practice is that you now have all of these rules. You have

people who are pushing you. You have ways to gauge your improvement. And you have something to hold you accountable. It's a very social sport, right? And so every weekend or once a month or however much you want to compete, you have your buddies there at the range, and the camaraderie is incredible. And so you build this kindred spirit, and they hold you accountable. Like if you don't show up for a match or two, they're like, hey, where the heck were you? And so, again, that— They're going to send you to Dairy Queen if you're not safe. If you're not safe, yeah. They're not going to send you to Dairy Queen if you're not safe. If you're not safe, yeah.

They're not going to send you to Dairy Queen if you just don't show up like, hey, I think you deserve a DQ. No, when you said hold accountable, I meant like there's like a – I would like to point out that there is an extremely strong emphasis on safe handling. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, y'all probably saw it today. I would get asked a question, but then out of the peripheral of my eye, if I saw something I didn't like, I'm like, I literally hold up my hand and be like, hey, what are you doing over there?

Are you breaking the 180? Are you loading that gun when I didn't tell you to load it or whatever? So we are at most safe. Yeah, there's a lot going on. You got to be spatially aware what's happening around you. Yeah, a thousand percent. You have to be very aware. All right.

Tell people how to find you if they want to come check out. Because Instagram is cool because you can see what you kind of get like a sense. You put videos up and shit like that. Yeah. So I put videos up on and I'm probably more strong on Instagram than anything. People keep telling me to do YouTube. So I don't know. NH3GunGirl.

NH3GunGirl is Instagram. And you're writing. Your videos are on guns.com? They are. Yeah. So I do. So all my travels, because we were talking earlier about how I live in a camper travel across country, I post all those to my stories. So you can see my awesome photography from where I'm at, all my stories.

And then all the videos that I do on firearm reviews, educational videos, those are with guns.com. So they have a YouTube channel, which is like probably their most popular platform. And then they have a website as well. But that's most of the work that I do for them. So that's how you can find me. And then where if people want to go and they want to go spectate at a three-gun tournament, what's sort of like the hot website for seeing what's going on in that world? Ah, yes. Okay.

So this is the moment I have been waiting for this entire podcast. If you want to get into competition shooting, look at – so first of all, go to practice score. So that is like – think of the word practice and then the word score. So it's actually practice score. Search it. Not practice. Practice score. Yeah. Practice score. Search it. Not practice. Practice score. Yeah.

Practice score. So go to practice score. Pull up your town and you could type in USPSA 3GUN whatever. You could just plug in

your town or your state. Like I already pulled them up in Montana. There's a club in Big Sky that does USPSA competition. So I might try to hop into one of those. Anyways.

So you could go there figure out where your local competition is. From there then you could get the contact information for the match director and ask him, like, hey, I'm a new shooter. I need gear or I need advice. And I would 100% guarantee that they're going to be helpful to you in getting into competition shooting. And then on Facebook, you could just research local groups and they're helpful. Yeah. Okay. So Instagram at NH3, like numeral three, gun girl.

That's it. And then practice score. If you want to get into competition. And guns.com. And guns.com. Great URL. They just lay it right out. Yeah.

It's guns.com. It's very direct. Guns.com. That's why I love it. i love it the problem though is because it says.com when you start to type it into social media they automatically want to like link to and it's like when i'm texting someone about guns.com and automatically he's trying to give me the website i'm like no i'm just trying to say it i don't want to share it but anyways i'm with you i digress i digress well thank you uh Thorne it was a great day

yeah it was fun it was like a genuine range day awesome with you guys we had a range day it was a range day and it was a fun range day

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