The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 285: Tying Flies with Tucker Carlson

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

Steven Rinella talks with Tucker Carlson, Ryan Callaghan, Brody Henderson, Spencer Neuharth, Seth Morris, Garrett Long, Phil Taylor, and Corinne Schneider.Topics discussed:MeatEater's audiobook out ranking about Matthew McConaughey's audiobook; no more bear hunting in New Jersey; solvent traps and drilling your own holes; Grumpy Middle Aged Men; the color of spider blood and the deepest lake in America; 47,000 ticks on one moose; tarpon fishing being based on luck; why you might want to buy boat insurance; standing against strip malls and dollar stores; Episode 107 of The MeatEater Podcast: Saving the Everglades; casting an 8 weight fly rod in one of Central Park's lakes; making poppers; shootability and MeatEater's Caliber Battles; not politicizing your children; Tucker's views on Pebble Mine; bonding over fly fishing with Rachel Maddow; tree spiking and Tracy Stone-Manning; when Cal and Brody fight; and more.Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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First Light. Go farther, stay longer. Alright everybody, joined today, very special guest Tucker Carlson, host of Fox News channels, Tucker Carlson Tonight. This is where it gets confusing. And host of Fox Nation's Tucker Carlson Today and Tucker Carlson Originals, which got

Corinne wondering, since tonight is encapsulated in today, what's the difference between the two shows? You know, I haven't looked at my contract in a while. There is a distinction, but it's a lot of talking in both. Hit me with a bunch of superlatives. You're the most watched cable news commentator, cable news newscaster. Having been, this is my 26th year doing this, and having been the least watched cable news commentator, I see everything as kind of the Buddhist wheel of life.

Yeah. So I'm on one end of it at the moment. Doubtless will be on the other end at, you know, another moment. But you haven't on the other end. Oh, God, yeah. moment doubtless will be on the other end you know but you haven't on the other end oh god yeah you you wouldn't know this because i can't say that we met but you um uh i was in your presence one time because years ago uh trcp yes theodore roosevelt conservation partnership they do this capital awards dinner yes where they give a they usually honor they honor someone from each side of the aisle yes so the honor republican and a democrat and then usually someone from the house

usually from the someone from the senate sometimes two governors and you gave some opening remarks and i'm standing there i like you might have noticed uh you might have noticed a young man in the audience so i like them and i like Trout Unlimited. I mean, I lived in Washington for a long time and I dealt with a lot. Obviously, I care about conservation and the land

and all that. But I only trust the groups with sportsmen in them. I mean, if you can't tell a deciduous from a conifer, if you can't like identify bird or fish species,

like you're faking it. And those guys are for real and they fish and they shoot in. And I like them. Yeah, you can have a conversation. But there are a lot of fake groups out there. Whoa. You know, I've always only been focused on the sportsman ones.

They're the best. I feel like we're talking the same language. Well, because they're rooted in physical reality. You know, saving the environment. Okay, what environment? And how are you saving it? And how is it improving. You know, saving the environment. Okay, what environment? And how are you saving it? And how is it improving? You know, so if you can go to, I mean, that's it.

It's a non-ideological measure, but like, tell me what you're doing with the money. Yeah. And that's one of the reasons I like to you. It's like, well, okay, there's a stream near my house that they improved. How did they improve it? They, you know, they put more cover. Yeah. Do you know they put some pools in in like, that's a good thing.

The fish like it. I like it. You know, I'm happy to give money to them. Um, anyway, so, but the other day we did a TU, um, who was more involved in that? It was us, our company, T, Trout, Trout, I think Trout Unlimited did it, right? The river cleanup? The Gallatin County chapter. Yeah. There's two companies that are based here.

Sims, like we're based here. Sims is based here, the waiter company. But then TU put on a, basically just cleaning trash out of the local river. Yeah, if you're taking tires out of the stream, I'm on your side. You know, I've mentioned this a bunch of times, but do you remember the humorist Patrick McManus?

He used to write like humor fishing pieces. Yes, I've mentioned this a bunch of times, but do you remember the humorist Patrick McManus? He used to write like humor fishing pieces. Yes, I do. He had a piece where he explained that the difference between a creek and a crick is that a crick has a tire in it. I fish around truck tires all the time. So, audiobook sales update, um, man, with our, the campfire meat eaters, campfire stories, close calls came out on Tuesday by Tuesday night. It was number one on Apple for audio books. It was bouncing between two and four on audible number two and number four.

We were like neck and neck with all uh all right all right matthew conahay's book and neck and neck with one of the political tell-alls that's out right now so that book's kicking ass and i'll tell you that's all to uh that's all you listeners that did that for us um because we have there was no it's an audio original so there's no like physical book right um there's no uh it's just you guys did that thanks for the support because it wasn't from there's no like media channel that was supporting us we just like made it did it and it launched up and became the number one book on apple for audio that day that day out of the gate. So thanks to everyone listening, man. Heartfelt appreciation.

And then also you guys really made my day. Cause we had our, we finally had the, the, the, our wilderness skills, um, and survival book made the New York times bestseller list. Thanks to you guys. There's no other way to, there's no other way to account for it. Which I actually read.

Oh really? Yeah. It's great. It was great. So appreciate the help to everybody for it. Which I actually read. Oh, really? Yeah. It's great. It was great. So appreciate the help to everybody out there. Here's, I added this one, Corinne. You'll notice I added a note. Okay.

I see. New Jersey will now have no bear season at all. It was that you weren't going to be able to do it. What on like state land? Now you can't do it at all. And like they have a, they have a management plan, but everybody's able to do it on like state land. Now you can't do it at all. And like they have a, they have a management plan, but everybody's got to sign off on the management plan.

So they just are acting like they just haven't read the management plan. So now like it passed a certain deadline. No one actually said there can't be a bear season, but the opponents of the bear season just stalled furthering the management plan and like, haven't read it. The deadline hit. Now that the deadline hit,

it's too late in the year. Huh. If you live in New Jersey, you got to get a brand new governor. Phil Murphy campaigned as like ending the bear. That was like a campaign promise to end bear hunting.

Is there a population conservation argument to be made for the decision? No. New Jersey has the highest density of black bears in the country. They ate a kid from Rutgers a few years ago. No, they got shitloads of bears. It takes a lot for a black bear to eat somebody.

There have to be a lot of them. What they would do that was stupid, in my view, is when you hunt bears in New Jersey and you get a bear, you have to go to the check station, okay? But they just have check stations out in public, like in a parking lot off the side of the road. And they publicize it. Here, when you get a bear,

you go and you take it to what would make sense. You go to the Fish and Game office and you meet with a biologist and you go to a place, a secure location, whatever. Not secure, but it's not like they don't call the press to tell them you're coming down with a bear. They pull a tooth, get the biometric data, and you register the bear. Here they have like, they were like, on Saturday at noon, we'll be registering bears at this public pullout.

And so everybody shows up there and has like a conniption. They do that with whitetails too. I remember shooting deer in New Jersey and taking it down to the local deli. And you show a guy and he hands you a sighties tag over the ham it's just it wouldn't be a sighties tag yeah they would give you a red like tag that you would then clip on the deer after you checked it in that's what they do in maine no sighties is the international what the hell sighties cal that's that's right yeah not sighties but it's like that same sort of tag.

Like the metal tag you clip on. Murphy's one of those dudes that also as well, he's one of those dudes that during his state's lockdown, he had the really thing where someone made a very embarrassing video where he's out at a restaurant with everybody. And this woman comes up to him who's making the video and she goes, Murphy, you're such a dick. I thought she was a bear hunter, but she was just pissed about the... I think it's important to point out, though, that the governor doesn't care about bears. He's not doing this on behalf of bears.

He's doing it on behalf of the segment of the population that cares about bears, and he wants that vote. This person's not out saving bears in other states one of the like statistically crazy things uh that that you're kind of uh glossed over is the the student the rutgers student that was eaten was in a group of hikers so you know an individual is one thing a group being accosted by a bear and an individual being taken out of that group puts it into a whole another statistical category of attack. For an Eastern black bear? Has that ever happened before?

I've never heard of that. Not to my knowledge. It's probably just a crazy bear. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is a wild deal, but that bear consumed part of that student. And because of that, he was protecting his cash and the, has it DNR in New Jersey? You know what I like to say when I can't

think of what it is? I say the State Fish and Wildlife Agency. I had to follow that up too. That always covers you, right? You look like you know what you're talking about. Yeah. Oh, we got a quick book report.

So we have a bunch of times talked, but we're trying to explain what's up with... This became of interest. What's up with what we used to call silencers, but have been rebranded as suppressors. And I was explaining how when I first got a suppressor, I turned in my paperwork and it took 14 months and then I thought something had changed I said I don't know what changed but it felt like something changed and then someone started talking about I'm holding in my hand what's called a trap yeah this is some listen I'm all for it but this is some bs yeah I love it but it's bs it's like well i'm holding in my hand a suppressor that doesn't have the hole drilled in it right right which prompted me to there was a i remember

a garage band and when i was a kid in michigan there was a garage band that sold records with no hole in it and the record was called drill your own hole it's like the name of the album it was marked but you had to drill your own hole. So this is a drill your own hole. And similarly, if you... Take it over, because Garrett's going to explain this whole world to us. Yeah, I was going to say, similarly, if you drilled your own hole in the wrong spot, it'd probably wreck the album, and you'd probably have an adverse effect on your suppressor there. Oh, like if you just drilled it off to the side?

You're going to want to drill press for that one. Yeah, so that company actually... This is yours? That's mine. So it doesn't have a hole in the end of it. When they send you your solvent trap, they send you a drill bit and a guide for your drill bit. Just in case. Just in case

you might want to turn it into a suppressor. Okay. So walk us through all the legals. Yeah. So the legal, like you laid out with the regular suppressor side, it's a pretty long but straightforward process where you have to file for, to get your own suppressor, right? This is solvent traps are just another form of a homemade suppressor. So people have been doing it like with oil filters, right? They buy an oil filter, plug a hole in the end of it. And it's a suppressor. Because really a suppressor is just like a muffler on a car.

Like that's Maxim suppressors. They're pretty, well, they were the first ones. Like Theodore Roosevelt ran a suppressor on his gun, right? Is that right? Yeah, yeah. Did you just learn that in your little research session, or did you already know that? Oh, man, Nephi was on the spot.

He told you about that. Yeah, yeah, he was all about it. But, yeah, so. Well, Teddy Roosevelt ran a suppressor. Yeah, on his 1894 lever action. Yeah, he was all about it. Old Teddy Roosevelt ran a suppressor. Yeah, on his 1894 lever action. What was it chambered in? 30-30. Nice. How do you get a

suppressor on a lever gun? Well, I think they had to have just welded it on there. There's no other way to do it. Yeah. No, he did it on several guns, but the biggest thing is, so homemade suppressors have been around for a while. And so what the ATF did is they established this,

like it's a form one. So it's an e-form that you can fill out that says, Hey, I want to build a suppressor. Um, and you have to get permission to build one. That's why there's not a hole drilled in the end of that one is I haven't got permission yet. Oh, so you don't drill the hole until they say you can drill the hole. Exactly. So the thing that's attractive about this is- That makes a hell of a lot more sense now. Yeah. What's attractive about this is like your experience with 14 months,

which is a little different now, like it's more like seven to eight months, right? Yeah, well, Silence or Central, they're doing them in 12 weeks. Eight to 12 weeks or no? I don't think so. I feel like somebody kind of maybe misspoke when they said that, but it's still like seven to eight months. The nice thing about Silencer Central that's different is like you saw it. You can go up, you know, buy your suppressor, fill out a form, and then they take it from there and you don't have to do anything. Like you don't have to worry about how to fill out all the other paperwork.

They just auto-populate it all and then they send it because they have a FFL in every state. They just send it directly to your house. Like there's no checkout process, right? Like when it's approved, it goes right to your house. Yeah, and they do the fingerprinting. So like I noticed that they're at the Sturgis bike rally. At the Sturgis bike rally, they can fingerprint you. Yep.

Which normally dudes, I think that dudes at Sturgis aren't looking to get fingerprinted. Yeah. I mean, certainly not have it sent. I'm just going out on a limb. But many have been before. Right. They're like, this is the second time I got fingerprinted at Sturgis. They're like, just go down to the county jail.

They have them for me. Yeah. Yeah. They should be on file, bro. Yeah. Yeah. But the attractive thing with homemade suppressors or buying a solvent trap is you can realistically- You better explain what a solvent trap is.

All right. Yeah, because nobody can see it that was being passed around. A solvent trap is, for all intents and purposes, it's a suppressor that doesn't have the end hole drilled in. Yeah. No, but why would one- Well, when you're cleaning your gun right you can push patches through your gun and it catches the solvent in the patches so it doesn't dribble on your garage so i mean you know i've actually pushed solvent into that solvent trap just because that's why

i bought it do you think that yeah but here let me ask you this do you think that anyone out there on the planet has um used the solvent trap just to trap solvent? Originally, yes. Like it was a thing. They looked a lot different than this, right? It was not a undrilled suppressor when it originally came out. We use what's called a towel. You got to get a permit for one of those.

Use that for a suppressor too. You got to get a Charmin one of those. Use that for a suppressor too. Gotta get a Charmin permit. So these solvent traps, why they're attractive is like they're pretty much a suppressor without a hole drilled in the end of it. And you can extrapolate from there, but... What did that one cost you? So that was $700.

So they charge you suppressor fees. Yeah, if you go to the same site, it's also $700 for a suppressor. So they. If you go to the same site, it's also 700 bucks for a suppressor, right? So they're the same cost. You'll notice my name and there's some other numbers are engraved on that. And,

uh, put your glasses on. But the reason for it is if you buy a solvent trap, a lot of companies just, you know, thinking maybe you want people to be able to find it in case you lose it. Um, ask if you want certain things engraved on the side of it.

And the reasoning for that is when you turn a solvent trap into a suppressor, when you're filling out your e-form, your Form 1, they require you to state your name, where it's manufactured, the serial number, and I think the caliber. And they said it has to be printed on your suppressor that you're making. So a lot of these companies, when they send you a solvent trap, they'll just ask you what you're putting on your form one. Just in case you decided to turn it into a- Just in case you wanted to drill a hole.

Now, the attractive thing about it is if you're willing to go through those steps, a lot of times you're approved in 60 days, sometimes less, sometimes more like six weeks, you can have that. Now, I screwed my- And you're just as legal as anybody else then? Just as legal. The main difference is that it's electronic. So the reasoning that a regular suppressor takes so long is you send in all this paperwork to the atf right and then they have to file it and then they're checking on you and they're checking on the manufacturer what's frustrating about is after all that time when you send in your paperwork the system that they check

is the same system that when you go to go get a firearm right so like a lot of nicks nicks right yeah the nicks system right so like a lot of uh countries when they sell you firearm not a lot but there's a lot of european countries when they send sell you a firearm like you can buy it with a suppressor on it because they're like well if we checked you out for a firearm and you don't have a you know felonies or anything like that why couldn't you have a suppressor and so that that's why like the whole solvent trap thing is pretty cool. If you're willing to go through those steps, right. And, and fill out an e-form because yeah, six weeks, usually you can have a suppressor. So are you waiting on,

um, yeah. John Q law to tell you can drill your hole. Yeah. I screwed up the first process. They send you, they basically send you a confirmation email that says, hey, sign this and send in your fingerprints. And I didn't see that. And you have 30 days to print it off and send it back. And I did it at 35. And then I called them and pleaded with them. And they're like, nope, start over. But yeah, other than that, it would have been drilled by now.

Tell everybody about how you were honored with Employee of the Month here at Mete here at meat eater i was yeah this is also his first time on the podcast it's also for garrett long second ladies ladies and gentlemen garrett long yeah you're on the podcast i was at the well you don't even know phil doesn't know what you do garrett yeah um just for the audience i guess i guess my job is to make sure that people listen to the podcast um so i'm the marketing director here. But, yeah, I was on it when I was at Sheep Foundation. Oh. Yeah.

Yeah, you wouldn't remember. But you didn't work for us then. No, I didn't work for you. But that was pretty cool. We were kind of upset, actually, because we tried to find, like, this specific brand of wild sheep whiskey to bring in. And then we asked you after the podcast if you want to have a drink, and you were like, oh, I don't drink anymore.

And then it was like a couple months later, you were drinking like a beer in one of the episodes. We're like, oh, man, wrong brand of whiskey. Well, no, it's just I bounce around on drinking and not drinking. Like I drank last night, but I still don't drink. Right, right. Do you know what I'm saying?

I do feel like, though. I know what you're saying. Yeah, Brody, you were there. It was awkward last night, but I still don't drink. Right. Right. Do you know what I'm saying? I do feel like though. I know what you're saying. Yeah. Brody, you were there for, it was awkward last night. Yeah. What did I say to the waitress? You asked for half a shot of vodka. Yeah, you did.

In your bloody name. The margarita. You're like, I'll just take half. She didn't really know what to think about that. Yeah, she had no clue. Well, no, here's the problem. I didn't know. Their normal pour is a two ounce pour.

So I said, I want half the amount. And so she goes, so an ounce. I'm like, no, half the amount. She goes, well, it's the problem. I didn't know. Their normal pour is a two-ounce pour. So I said, I want half the amount. And so she goes, so an ounce. I'm like, no, half the amount. She goes, well, it's normally two. I'm like, well, I want a quarter. A quarter of the normal amount. Brody would like my, give my leftovers to Brody. She's very accommodating.

Very accommodating. She also looked very confused. I do think we need to go back, though, Steve, this employee of the month thing. Oh, yeah, yeah. We kind of glossed over that. I was very honored. Oh, you wanted to spend more time on that? Yeah, I feel like you kind of mentioned it, and I don't know if the listeners would grasp that I got employee of the month last month.

No, he got it, and everything he does is great, but it was sort of a looking back on the pandemic. Garrett, when everything got shut down and the governor closed the whole state, you weren't supposed to go anywhere. Garrett fearlessly just drove all over in his truck. He became like UPS, meal delivery, quarantine services. If you had a direct exposure and had to hole up, Garrett would come bring you your stuff. You'd look out your window and see him leaving stuff on your doorstep selflessly. Wow. Yeah.

I actually didn't think you were going to go into it that much, but I appreciate it. Listen, there's a thing I like about people. I like the people who will shovel shit and not complain about it. And you were shit shoveling. Yeah. During theing. Yeah. During the pandemic. Yeah. He also woke up

at the butt crack the other day to take Samantha and I shooting. So thank you very much. Exactly. Is this what it's like whenever you're on this podcast?

You just gotta shovel. No, no. This is not Spencer's experience. Usually it's the exact opposite. Definitely not Phil's experience. We'll get you exact opposite. Definitely not Phil's experience.

We'll get you next time. Next time we'll say some bad stuff about you. Oh, Corinne, can you do the quick thing about the town? Okay. Yeah. So a couple of episodes ago, we talked about deer vehicle collision study where wolves and wolves saving lives possibly was kind of all part of that. Yeah, to stop deer car closures, you need more wolves. Yeah, we weren't quite sure about that.

But in any case, there were a number, the study was done in Wisconsin, and I really butchered the pronunciation of one county in Wisconsin. The correct pronunciation is Waukesha. Dozens of people wrote in to correct me on that. So we issued a correction. Including a current NFL player. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What did you call it?

Waukesha. Waukesha. Yeah. And someone who lives in Wisconsin with family in Waukesha wrote that he was just absolutely stunned that the one thing that we had missed in our correction was that Waukesha is where the film Grumpy Old Men is based. You had no idea.

No, I don't think any, I mean, I didn't know that until, we talk about that film a lot. Yeah, which brought up, you need to go to Instagram, go to my Instagram, probably Cal's too. What's yours, Cal? Cal's is like oldcal406. Oldcal406. Mine's very tricky.

It's at Steven Rinella. Go there and you'll see on April 1, we did what the French would call an homage. It's brilliant, guys. To grumpy old men called grumpy middle-aged men. One of the most ruthless fight scenes you'll ever see. Yeah. Wasn't it Wabasha? Wasn't it Wabasha?

I thought it was Wabasha in the movie. Yeah, it is. I thought that's what it was, too. Oh, is this whole thing wrong? Do we need to issue another correction on the correction? No, no, I want to put it to rest. It's going to go the way of those, when you get hair growing on your eyeball, how we quit talking about that.

It's going to go, Wabkesha is going the way of that. Anyway, go check that out. It's the one in the funniest videos we put out this year. Real quick, and this is going to tie into our next talking point, so it's real slick. Seth and I are fresh off, well, I am fresh off a spearfishing trip to Louisiana. I'm fresh off a fishing trip to Louisiana. Seth don't get in the water. I've told everybody this.

I was razzing. I was like, Seth, he's not like, he doesn't like, he loves the water but doesn't want to be in it. I love boats. He likes boats. It's not that he likes the water. He likes boats. I kept harassing him about why he wouldn't get in there

and take a little shot or two with the spear gun. And he clarified to me he likes to bring the fish to him. Yeah, that's right. I like boats. I like rod and reels. Doesn't need to go in there with them. But this is a thing that I've been wanting to do for a long time. My God, it was fun.

We were diving the oil rigs. So it's hard to even explain, man. Thousands of oil platforms. They do all manner of things out and how many miles out do we go so i think just over 70 yeah we had a distinct advantage because our buddies had just speared a our buddies were down there to do um they both been on the podcast greg fonts and Alex Renaud. And you want to see some full circle, full circling. These two are featured in the close calls, the mediators campfire stories, close calls

edition. They're featured in the close calls with spearfishing close calls. Um, what the hell was I saying about us, Seth? They were down there doing something. Oh, they were there for a spearfishing close calls. Um, what the hell was I saying about us, Seth? They were down there doing something. Oh,

they were there for a spearfishing tournament. So they had already like beyond scouted for two days. So we got the real gravy pickings. Yeah. Because we went on a 40, 50 miles out in the Gulf and they knew like that rig,

that rig, that rig. Uh, when the Mississippi flows out, it's got like a murky fresh water and fresh water lays on the saltwater. So when you go up to a rig, like you get out of the boat and swim up to a rig you can't see anything man like you could hold your hand out and can't see your fingertips in fact you can't reload your spear gun at the

surface without moving it around to see what's going on like you can't see the other end of the gun but when you dive down from three feet to 15 feet, all of a sudden it's like, you like enter the blue water. Like it's just, it's like someone pulling back the curtains. So you dive down and you get through that muddy murk and also it's like, the whole world opens up. Unbelievable.

Unbelievable. Fish. Which gets me to this point. These guys, you know, you'll get, we went out one time far out to try chumming. So we're chumming. What was that fish we were chumming with? Do you remember?

Not bunker. No, I don't remember the, I don't remember the name of it. Yeah, I can't remember either. They used the word I wasn't familiar with. I bet I would know it by a different name. They use a lot, the guys on there use a lot of French words.

I didn't know that. All their ducks, the Cajuns, all their ducks, they use the French word for the duck. Sharks show up like a, like a mofo when you're doing this. And these guys, when a shark comes in and he starts getting like kind of aggressive, what's funny is they, they are very good at reading the

shark's mood and they'll go in and chase them. Like they dive down and chase them off. Dive down and maybe like poke them or hit them in the nose to run them off. Like you're running off a dog. And we had a recent episode we did with Kimmy Werner and she talked about the same thing. And I was remarking on her going down and confronting sharks, diving down to them to confront them, to get them to move away. And this guy was saying he was listening to Kimmy's hot tip

about this and he was surfing at Dana Point, California. And there was a great white that was hanging around there and he charged at it with his surfboard and spooked it off. It's huge. Spooked it off. There's huge. Spooked it off.

There's just some pictures there. Yeah, took Kimmy's advice, got aggressive on it. It left and never came back, so he says. But he also mentions that he did not stay in the water. He returned to shore immediately. I didn't read it that far. Yeah. So did the shark leave or did he leave?

A little bit of both. But he did successfully charge the shark. The fin disappeared, never to be seen again. But his vantage point from thereafter was from the shore looking out, not the surfboard looking down. He includes some beautiful photographs of the shark, though. Gorgeous. I like that shark a lot.

Okay, now, turning the attention, this is our last thing before we get to our guest. But this is sizable, right? are we ready to move on yeah spencer has been advocating can i just tell him can we can just do you care if it's like kind of post-modern feeling where we talk about talking about it take the lead go ahead you don't care no it's very it's post-modern it's behind the scenes it's show business there's a thing called the fourth wall um a way you can imagine like well let's say you're watching the sitcom you can see what's happening on three of the walls right like they come in the husband wife get an argument the kids say something sassy right you can see like three walls but you never see the fourth wall because

that's where the camera is so in show business we'll say that never see the fourth wall because that's where the camera is. So in show business, we'll say that we broke the fourth wall. We're breaking the fourth wall. Spencer's been advocating heavily that we need to have a trivia element, an occasional trivia element to the show. And I think it's got a lot of legs and I see our path toward a board game.

There's a lot riding on this. If Spencer does, if he's good, then he has a bright future. These are trivia questions curated by me. You're not going to find them anywhere else.

Not trivia questions. You're going to get in Trivial Pursuit or on Jeopardy or at your neighborhood bar and grill. This is exclusive to the meat eater podcast, but it's informed by audience. Correct. It's informed by things that people want to know. These questions are born out of meat eaters for

verticals. Tell them what they are. Steve hunting, fishing, wild foods and conservation. That's right. And we have 10 questions and there is a prize. So we have stakes. So no cheating off Tucker, Cal, when you're writing down your answer. Tucker, I want you to know, man, you don't have to participate.

I was on Jeopardy. I won. Whoa. It's like the only thing I brag about. Like a celebrity Jeopardy? Yeah, it was the bullshit edition. And who'd you play against? You and Burt Reynolds? No. You know, I knew him. He was a nice guy.

No, it was... It was... Oh, God, he's so unimpressive. Also from Michigan. I'm sorry. Bob Seger? No, Bob Woodward. Oh, the journalist? Yeah, the journalist. He didn't tear it up? No, God, not at all. Oh, the journalist? Yeah, the journalist. He didn't tear it up?

No. All the interviews he's done? He's a little slow, actually. I was sort of surprised. And Peggy Noonan, who's a very nice person. Why do you say it was bullshit? You think they, like, give you softballs? Oh, it was way easier. Oh, they softballed it.

Oh, come on. Yeah. Really? Yeah, there was, like, no Greek mythology. I did it hungover and did fine. It was pretty good. Great. So the prize so spencer wanted 45 minutes and we've negotiated down to i think we're like 20 yeah but i'm very excited about this i think that if you i i hope i'm i had spencer sit i made uh spencer has brody's

chair i wanted to be so close to spencer while he did it to see how it went. And the prize is MeatEater has generously agreed to donate $100 to a conservation organization of the winner's choice and the winner's name. So that is what's on the line here. If this takes off and becomes really good, we'll have to up the stakes.

This is just introductory level. Corinne or Phil, can one of you tally up the scores for me while we do this? I'd love to. Alright. Look, I need to know what I stand to win. Everything. How's that? You stand to win everything.

Well done. We ready? Everyone has a whiteboard in front of them. Oh, right to you. Okay, great. He doesn't know what the hell. None of us know what's going on because we've never tried it. I thought we should just shout out the answers.

Yeah. Yeah, no. The first question is multiple choice. You're not going to get any more multiple choice after this, so I'm giving you. Do we keep our whole board secret? Yeah. I mean, I don't we keep our whole board secret? Yeah. I mean, I don't want Cal showing Garrett and Seth peeking in. What I mean is, are we going to do all of it?

No, no, no. There will be, after the first question, I will tell you to reveal your answer. And then we'll have a moment where we can laugh at Seth because he wrote something dumb. And we all know what everyone's answer is. It's a foregone conclusion, Seth. It'll probably happen. Loves are oxen. That's right.

Multiple choice. The topic is conservation. answers foregone conclusions it'll probably happen that's right multiple choice the topic is conservation which one of these conservation organizations is oldest walleyes unlimited ducks unlimited trout unlimited or whitetails unlimited which one is the oldest walleyes ducks trout or whitetails oh man see I feel like it's one of those ones where oh come on that's obvious I know what I know what to

put well kind of look it up huh these are the only four unlimited uh conservation organizations that I could find but I feel like we should start like a squirrel one at some point. Oh, yeah. We have Rocky Mountain Squirrel Foundation.

Yeah. Is there really such a thing? No, but we're going to start it. I love that. It's unofficially... It's unofficially Yanni's organization. He doesn't do anything with it, though. It used to be in Yannis' bio on the website that he is the founder of it.

Alright, does everyone have an answer? Reveal your answers. We have Whitetails Unlimited was found in 1982. Let me tell you why I put down what I put. Never mind. Walleyes Unlimited was found in 1969. Trout Unlimited in 1955. And Ducks Unlimited, the correct answer was 1937.

We got, everyone did well there. Did everyone get it but Steve? I got it wrong. Because, listen, here's why. I thought it was going to be one of those gotcha questions. You'd never think it'd be walleyes. That's kind of embarrassing. So now that I see that you're just going for obvious,

I wanted it so bad to be walleyes. The great story about it is when it was founded, the founder was originally just going to call it Ducks, but it was going to be an international organization. And one of the other founders pointed out to him that, well, this would be limited. This would be categorized as a limited corporation in Canada. So Canada would refer to it as Ducks Limited. And the founder's quote was, damn it, we don't want limited ducks. So the solution then was to name it

ducks unlimited but that is that begs the question so it's now ducks unlimited limited if you like dug around in the paperwork of what canadians refer to it as i'm guessing that's what it'd be categorized unlimited limited comma limited. Comma Limited. Yeah. Okay. And that then, like, I imagine spawned Trout to give that name and White Tails and everyone else. So that's how it started. It's dang Canadian. Cal, you're into this, aren't you? Oh, I love it.

Hey, where's our interest meters, Phil? There's a lot of people in the room. I don't think I would have had space to set it up. Turn mine up if you can. Got it. Question two. The category is public lands. Which state has the most national parks?

Hmm. Hold on. That's it? By size or by number? No, no, no. The number of them. Oh, I think I got it wrong. The number of national parks.

Wow. Hold on a minute, man. Are you talking about like, what about like Gettysburg or something like that? What the National Park Service would identify as a national park. But this is not square miles. It's not percentage of land.

The number of them that there are. And it is a close race at the top. I will give you that hint. Yeah, because I think the smallest national park on register is less than a square mile of land. No kidding. I believe so. And it's a what?

It's a little island or something. I think so. That is not the question, though. I remind you the question is which state. I'm just letting people know there's really big national parks and there's really tiny national parks. Which state has the most? I don't think I have it right. What's your fear?

Did you go the obvious or not obvious one on this one? No, because I'm thinking about something that's probably wrong. Work yourself into a pretzel. Yeah, I'm ready to tell you. Does everyone have an answer? Begrudgingly. Reveal your answers. The only person who got it right is Tucker.

Oh, jeez. I put California too. It is California. Yeah, baby. I'm glad you and I were thinking the same thing. California. Are you playing, Corinne? Who's number two?

California. Okay, I'll put you on. California leads the nation at nine. You then have Alaska at eight. That's where I was. Utah at five and Colorado at four. Here's why I went Alaska. It's because, you know, they have like the park.

They have those like park and preserve designations. And there's a lot of them, man. Spencer, do you get extra points for lengthy explanations of why you were wrong? No. No, you do not. But I appreciate them. It is stupid. It is stupid for me to tell you why.

I'm going to quit doing it. I'm just going to be wrong. No, I'm looking for that in this game. I want you to make me fat chest self and explain how wrong you got it, that kind of thing. Okay. So keep it up. California at nine, Alaska at eight. Alaska at eight, Utah at five, Colorado at four.

The nine national parks are Channel Islands, Death Valley, Joshua Tree, Kings Canyon, Lassen Volcanic, Pinnacles, Redwood, Sequoia, and Yosemite. You know, a little bit of constructive feedback for you. Okay, I'm ready. You knocked it out of the park on the first tidbit, like the post-question tidbit. Yep. The second, no one wants to hear a list of nine things. I disagree. The second tidbit I thought was horrible.

Okay. Just going forward. Too much information. Yeah. Going forward, the first tidbit was wonderful. But it's already constructed. But the second tidbit, like you can't list nine things to somebody. Look at what happened in the competition side of things, though.

We had a strong heat going, and all of a sudden, now we have a clear front runner. That's two rounds. That's a mark of a good game. The tidbit was specifically for Tucker. I'm not criticizing the game. I'm criticizing the tidbit. The first tidbit said a real bar. I'm rounding out your compliments,

Sandor. At least he didn't slow down the podcast or anything with that and keep it from question three. Ready? I just like to point out that Corinne is also playing and she is also two for two. She doesn't have a whiteboard, so I don't trust what she says.

I like it. Phil, fact check her down. I'm going to do a scoreboard, so I don't trust what she says. I don't have whiteboards. I got this on my email. I like it. I'm not lying. Somebody else can look it up. Phil, fact check her down. I'm going to do a scoreboard update that's very unnecessary where Steve has zero correct. And the only person in the room was zero correct. We're just getting started. We set aside 45 minutes for this right here. Question three.

The topic is biology. What is the term for when there is a distinct difference in size or appearance between males and females of the same species? I'll give you some examples. A female soft-shell turtle grows about twice as big as a male soft-shell turtle. A mule deer buck has antlers while a mule deer doe does not. These are examples of what biological term? It's basically, did you listen to the last episode of the Meat Eater Podcast? Oh, is this talked about then? We've talked about it 30 times.

Really? We've talked about how Neanderthals don't seem to have exhibited it. And humans have low levels. Ospreys are extreme. Okay. Suck it, Spencer. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Does everyone have it written down?

I don't know. I saw his board, so I can't participate. Oh, I'm sorry, man. I ruined it. The correct answer, as most folks in the room have it. What's Garrett got? Macrofractation. The correct answer is what, Corinne?

Sexual dimorphism. That is right. Sexual dimorphism. Okay, that's hot. Who got that one right? It appears. I got it right. Cal, Steve.

I read that not only do, it seems like from the skeletal remains, do Neanderthals not have as extreme a form of sexual dimorphism is hominids or they were hominids as homo sapien but they their skeletal remains exhibit the same

suites of injuries from what anthropologists call a confrontational style of hunting and that it seems that the women were mixing it up with the men in big game hunting. A suite of injuries that is reminiscent of what you see on professional bull riders. They noted. It was a good book. I read all that out of. Okay.

All right. No, we have Corinne pitching a perfect game. That's the tidbit. Three for three. Oh, really? Yeah. But she's disqualified because no chalkboard. Brody, did you get that one

or not? You got it. I saw it. It's only an honorable mention. Are we caught up, Phil? We're caught up. Question four. Is fishing the 51st Bassmaster Classic, which is a Super Bowl of bass fishing, just wrapped up in June? The annual tournament features some of the world's most famous anglers

on some of America's premier bass lakes and rivers. You need to name one body of water the Bassmaster Classic has been held on. Has been held on? Yes. Any of the 51 events, you need to name one of those lakes or rivers

or impoundments that the classic has been held on. Do I have to spell it right? No. I'm right there. I think we're right down the same lake. Now, this is going to take me a minute to check all of your answers because you have about 40 options. The tournament has been held on some duplicates at some point,

so you'll have to bear with us when we reveal. I see Garrett's still writing. Lake macrofructation. Alright, Steve, you go first. What do we got? Okeechobee. I don't... I don't know if that's one of them.

Because you spelled it so wrong, I can't... Did you write it this way, Steve? Yeah. Lake of Florida? Lake O. Brody's got the same answer, but he probably spelled it better. Okay, I do not see Okachobi on here. So that eliminates a few of you. Tucker, what is your answer?

It kind of takes the master out of there. I'm sorry, say it again. Lake Lanier. How do you spell the Lanier? I think it's L-A-N-I-E-R in Georgia. That is not one of them. What? Come on now.

I don't think you're listening. Garrett. I feel like I'm just, I don't even want to show my board here. But I don't even know if there's bass in it. Lake Michigan is correct. He doesn't even know if there's bass in it. He's like, oh, it's a large lake. He's like, just a large lake.

In the year 2000, they held the Bassmaster Classic on Lake Michigan that Wood Davies won with 27 pounds. Seth, what do you got? Lake Fork. He likes bass tournaments. That is not one of the lakes. Really? Really.

Really? What is this tournament? I know for a fact Lake Fork was a stop on the series this year. Yeah, not the Bassmaster Classic, though. Not the Classic. Oh, okay. Damn it. So what is it?

Oh, that's the deal. What'd you have, Corinne? What fake answer? I had three question marks. Oh, good. Hmm. So Garrett, the person who, have you caught bass? Like, right? Have you caught bass before?

Yeah, I do it quite a lot around here Is the one person That got it right Yeah, fly rod mainly He's lying I know this year it was held in Florida But I forget the body of water name Or not Florida, Texas

Oh, I know it late But I don't. Ray Roberts. Ray Roberts. Couldn't think of it. Okay, you got a tidbit or no? That's it. No.

I think part of your signature deal should be a little tidbit. Yeah? Yeah. Well, the tidbit was telling Garrett that it was held in 2000 and Wade Davies won it with 27 pounds. Yeah. All right, question five. We no longer have a perfect game from Corinne.

The topic is biology. What is the color of spider blood? Oh, my God. Spencer. That's it. That's the whole question. What is the color of spider blood? Is it different? Oh, you probably

can't give me a hint. Is it different inside and outside the body? Yeah, because, right, exactly. I was just thinking that exact same thing, because, I mean, who hasn't squashed a spider? Move to disqualify. That's it. I like the way you think. That's very smart. What is the color of spider blood? Does everyone have an answer?

Hold on, I'm changing mine. Because you're not going to answer that, I thought, very relevant question. I'm not going to answer anything. No help to us, Tucker. This could be an overthinking, underthinking situation. I don't know. Oh, what are you doing? Reveal your answers.

The correct answer is blue. Son of a bitch. Which, who got it? Cal. Cal got it. Tucker Which, who got it? Cal. Cal got it. Tucker, what was your answer? What was your answer, Steve? No.

No. Is that only Cal on that one? It is because... I gotta go smash a spider. It is because... He's gonna fact check you. He's gonna go over to the corner of the room and fact check you. Their blood has an atom of copper instead of iron, like most animals.

They share this trait with snails and octopi that was a good tidbit thank you very good tidbit okay got a halftime round up here we have corinne and cal tied for first with three brody garrett tied for second oh and tucker tied for second and then we've got steve and rounding out last with one. Wow, these are hard. Dude, I'm so depressed, man. Now, out of all the hot tips that we're getting out of these, I'm thinking Wade Davies and the weight of the bass is probably the one that's going to come in least handy. Yeah.

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Question six. We're back to the topic of conservation before becoming president teddy roosevelt had held titles such as minority leader of the state assembly president of the police commissioners and governor in what state oh teddy roosevelt titles such as minority leader of the state assembly president of the police commissioners, and governor in what state? We have a very confident Tucker Carlson so far. Wouldn't it be where he's from? How about this? Teddy Roosevelt introduced what caliber of sidearm to the police department that he oversaw?

Yeah, Spencer. I don't know. Spencer's got zero. 32. 32. Wrong. And he't know. Spencer's got zero. 30-30. 32! Long! And he did it so they would kill fewer criminals.

Yeah. True story. Really? That needs to go in our trivia game. That's a good tidbit. Good tidbit. Does everyone have an answer? Yeah, but I don't like mine.

Reveal your answers. The correct answer is New York. Oh, I got it! Which, everybody but Garrett? Damn. Everybody but Garrett.

What'd you put down, Garrett? North Dakota? I didn't put down Montana Rhode Island Why? It just seemed like geographically Like a place he'd govern Out east somewhere It's like just in the east

We have a fun article on TheMedia.com Talking about Teddy How during, while he held those roles, he really loved boxing. And there was a moment where he got hit so hard by an intern that it made him blind in one eye. I heard that story. Yeah. And then he kept doing it all the way through the White House, but somebody told him that it was like unbecoming of a president to be walking around with black eyes and cuts on his face. So he gave it up for a little bit.

Hmm. Question seven. That was a good tidbit eyes and cuts on his face. So we gave it up for a little bit. Hmm. Question seven. That was a good tidbit. We are on public lands. What is the deepest lake in America? What is the deepest lake in America? Oh, shoot. Saw some fast writing so far.

I see some erasing as well. Man-made? I see no writing by Steve so far. Man-made. I'm not going to give a hint. Uh-oh, I see a third round of writing from Cal. Yeah, this is getting intense. Wants a $100 donation.

Is it in Oregon? I am not giving any hints. I see everybody ready but Steve. I honestly don't have an answer. Just come up with an answer. That's not superior, but I'll write that down. All right. Everybody reveal your answers.

The correct answer is... Oh, that's what I was trying to think of. I knew that. What do you got? Uh-oh, he's rewriting. Nope. That's what I was trying to think of, though. So who got it right?

We had Seth and Brody and Cal. Garrett? Tucker? No, I got it wrong, but I knew the answer. It is located in Oregon. You see what I'm saying? Put me down for.5. Yeah.

Put me down for.5. It is 1,949 feet deep, and while it is the deepest lake in the USA, it is not the deepest lake in North America. That title is held by the Great Slave Lake in the Northwest Territories of Canada. That lake is 2,010 feet deep or about 60 feet deeper

than Crater Lake. Wow. You fish that one yet, Tucker? I have. Have you? It's a smallmouth lake. That's on my list. Really? It's got to be like gin clear, right? Yeah. Uh, no. No? I was there in bad weather. So. Tons of shoreline, looks awesome.

Yeah. Hmm. Cool lake to creep on on X for no reason. Yeah. Alright, we are on to question eight. How many are there? There's ten questions. Okay. So we're coming off on the end. One of the most googled firearms question is what is better between the

.270 Winchester and the.30-06 Springfield? We aimed at answering this question in a recent article on Media.com called Caliber Battle.270 Winchester versus.30-06 Springfield. If you want that answer, you're going to have to go to the Media.com to see the winner. Jordan Sillers did a great job of breaking

down the two cartridges and declaring a winner. I'm not going to tell you who it was. Did you interview Yanni for that? No. Okay. Your question is, what does the OTS-6 stand for in the name 30-06 Springfield? We have a confident Steve and a confident Tucker. Extraordinarily confident.

Confident Cal. Confident everybody but Garrett, who is our gun guy. Don't call him the gun guy. He's a gun cleaner guy. He's a competitive shooter. He's a solvent cleaner. He doesn't drip his solvent,

I know that. His garage floor is clean. He's got that deep pile rug in his garage. Not a drop on it. But before you give the answer, what was the answer to the predicate question? Like, what is superior? I can't tell you.

He can't tell you because he's trying to drive traffic. You need to go to TheMedia.com. He's trying to drive traffic. I would assume the 270, right? Because it's a newer cartridge. You need to go to TheMedia.com and read Jordan Seeler's article from July 21. Yeah, it's subjective, but grounded. He does as good a job of breaking

the two down as anybody could. Yes, but the ultimate thing is subjective, yet grounded. Yes. This question is not subjective. Everyone reveal your answers. The answer is the odd six refers to 1906, the year the cartridge was adopted. I think we should give it to Seth

who wrote Year Made. Yeah, for sure. Everybody got it. Unless he thought it was 2006. Oh, no! No, I wrote... What did you write? I wrote... Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, man, I'm embarrassed to admit this. I wrote 06, because the way

you formatted your question, you said, what does 06 stand for? That's what I did, too. The 30. I thought you were trying to be tricky there with your last statement. The 30 refers to the caliber of the bullet in inches while the 06 stands for 1906,

the year the cartridge was adopted. That was question eight. We're on to question nine. What is the score, Phil? We have Cal with six points in first place. Really? Followed closely by Brody with six points in first place. Really? Followed closely by Brody with five, Tucker with four, and then Corinne and Steve with three.

Oh, Seth's got four as well. Did I say that? And Garrett has two. Beforehand, I thought it would take six to win this, and we have two questions left, so you guys are on a good pace. I've gone from wanting to win to just not wanting to be last place. Which is the mark of a good game. We've got a good competition here.

I'm in the same boat. Question nine. The category is wildlife management. The two most common types of tracking collars that biologists use on animals are GPS and VHF. GPS, of course, stands for Global Positioning System. What does VHF stand for? Oh, that's a good one.

It is a good one. The two primary colors are GPS and VHF. GPS is Global Positioning System. What does VHF stand for? V as in Venus. Fun to make up. This is the hardest I've seen the room think yet. Because it's knowable.

Yeah, it feels like one of those things you should know. Right. Yeah. Cal, the front runner is thinking especially hard. Those brows are very furrowed. I've strapped these onto animals. Oh.

And so it's killing me that I don't, I'm not like 100% confident here. Does everyone have an answer? Reveal your answers. I'm not seeing a correct one yet. Oh, I think that's right. Very... No.

Very high frequency? That is correct. Very high frequency. That's correct. Very high frequency. That is right. Very high frequency? Very high frequency. It's as literal as you can get. That's right. Very high frequency? Very high frequency.

It's as literal as you can get. That's right. They're like, how high? Very high. It's a very high frequency. Tucker is the only one that got that one right. VHF collars work by sending out a radio signal that allows biologists to physically locate the animal by using a receiver and directional antenna. They only cost about $350, while a GPS collar can cost anywhere from 800 to 3,000.

Good tidbit. Thank you. Very high frequency. Very high frequency. That's great. There were some close answers. I saw a few of you had like the very, some people had the frequencies. Tucker was the only one to put it all together.

You can't buy them right now. No? I imagine. COVID? Chips? I imagine. COVID? Chips? I don't know. I just got a couple new dogs, and I want collars for me, and you can't get them. We're on the last question.

Phil, is it close? Well, the only way Cal can't lose, but he can tie for first. I do have a tiebreaker question in case we need to go to America. In America, we don't tie, Phil. That's soccer stuff. There you go. I knew I liked you. Cal has six Brody.

Do we need to go over this? Just, we already did that. Brody and Tucker. Just give us who's in the lead. Don't like, don't like just drag people through the dirt. Brody and Tucker are tied for second.

Seth is in third with four. Yeah. Like, you know, when the Olympics are coming up and they get to like gold, dude. Brody and Tucker are tied for second and Seth is in third with four. When the Olympics are coming up and they get to gold, right? They don't go gold, silver, bronze. They keep going. The last place person to remind everyone. Let's focus on the winners.

A lot of bitterness in this room right now. Let's focus on losers. Question 10. The topic is whitetails. The most popular state mammal is the whitetail deer. In fact, there are 12 states that recognize the whitetail as their state mammal. Name one of them. Oh, my. Really?

12 states. Name one of the states that recognize the whitetail as their official state mammal. This is for all the marbles, and I don't see Cal looking confident. It ain't Arizona. Garrett, don't put Arizona down. No, I don't have Arizona. Oh, I know what I'm going to do. I'll have to keep people up to speed.

That's what I'm thinking. Does everybody have an answer? Reveal your answers. I will list off the correct answers. You can tell us if you're right. Wisconsin, South Carolina, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma, Ohio, New Hampshire, Nebraska, Mississippi, Michigan, Steve, Illinois, Georgia, and Arkansas. Son of a bitch. God.

Tucker got it wrong. I certainly did. I was going to put Kansas. You put a very logical answer, though. But, of course, it's the steer, right? It's the longboard. I just realized. So we had everybody get it right except Tucker. And Cal.

Oh, Cal missed it. So we have a tie between Brody and Cal. Yeah, I missed it. I said Louisiana. Okay. Which I don't know what the state mammal for Louisiana would be. Yeah. So in our first ever time playing trivia, we are going to a tiebreaker. They both got

what? Seven, correct? Six. Six, okay. So I'm out. Wow, you kind of fell behind there, Cal. I'm just out. You kind of choked. Seth's out. Yeah, I missed the last two, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You all can participate in the tiebreaker, but the only answers that matter are Brody and Cal. Your question

is, in the number of days, how long is the gestation period of an elk? The closest will be the winner. Oh, this goes very well into our heated conversation last night. There's a good play on words right there. Steve, fill the audience in. That was good. Steve, fill the audience in on what the conversation was last night

between Cal and Brody while they think about what the gestation period is. Cal and Brody got in a fight so bad. We were out celebrating the launch of Meteor's Campfire Stories Close Calls. And we were celebrating the launch at a restaurant. And so everybody that was involved in that project was there. And Cal and Brody got into a fight

so bad that it made other people at the table uncomfortable. The number of days? Those people get uncomfortable around people anyway. The number of days. A people get uncomfortable around people anyway. The number of days. A little bit hard to track. It had to do with that Montana now has a primitive, they now have a flintlock season,

which will be tacked on to the end of the general season. Brody, are you one of those folks that knows how many days we're in each month? Because I just kind of guessed. Well, I guessed, too. All right. The correct answer. Brody's still in the 270 caliber battle. Respect to say. The correct answer. He's like, I don't know why 270 keeps coming to my mind. It's 245, making Brody the winner with the answer of 270. And that number comes from the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. So take it up with them, Cal, who was very wrong. Oh, no, no, no. Woody.

Cal, you have. My math skills is what failed there. Cal, you have an argument. I'm like, they pop out in June, they get inseminated in September. Cal, you could have made an argument that I went over. No. You didn't say that. You overcooked your kids.

No, no, no. You know, like a lot of stuff, you can do it closest without going over. Yeah, Price is Right rules. We're not doing Price is Right rules. But you didn't say that. Well done, Brody. That was great, Spencer. Wonderful job.

Good job, yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, Spencer Moore. Very nice. Now, Brody, tell us who you're going to donate your $100 to. Let's keep it in the family and do TRCP. Hey! All right. All right.

Tucker Carlson, you're here to go fishing? I am. And you live in Maine. Yep. Tell us about that. About how Maine, you were explaining, Maine kind of dries up. You bail on Maine. Oh, as a fishing matter?

Yeah. Yeah. So we live in the Western Mountains in Maine at the top of the Appalachian chain in the United States. And really pretty area, great fishing, biggest brook trout in the United States. Been there my whole life. And we have landlocked salmon too throughout the watershed. And they're great, great little game fish.

But it gets hot. And so we have a lot of still water fishing, a lot of lake fishing. I fly fish, so that's a problem because obviously, you know, casting lead core, it loses its appeal. You like being in moving water. For sure. I fish rivers mostly. There's about a maybe three week period where I live on a lake where we get, um, rising trout and salmon and, you know, you just kill it for that period. But I, you know, stripping scuds on sinking line, just, I'm not that into it. So, but anyway,

as the summer gets warm uh what i always come out west to the state to fish every you know every year without fail and i have a lot of kids and yeah how many kids you got four and you got a kid coming out to fish with you yeah and so various kids will meet me out here and we just get in the truck and drive around and stay in motels and fish what are the age ranges ranges? My oldest is 26. Second is 24. It was a outstanding fly caster, like one of the best, just a natural and a really good shot. My third is 22 and my fourth is 18 and they're all into the outdoors were raised that way. And there, but they have varying degrees of enthusiasm for fly fishing. Two out of four really are into it.

That's not bad. It's pretty good. I mean, considering, you know, how difficult it is to get a kid to learn to cast a fly rod is very difficult. And were you saying you just recently turned 50? I'm 52. Oh, 52. I'm really old. But my son, who's a really superior fly caster, much better than I am, you know, you have to make them.

You have to make them. So you start them all on spinning rods, obviously, you know, throwing the daredevil on a whatever bait caster or spinning rod or whatever. And then at about when he was nine, I just switched him over to an eight-weight because it's just easier to load it. And he really hated it, like a lot lot because his catch rate went to zero and i was just a complete fascist coming after throwing spinners yeah if you're throwing a daredevil in the anderskagen river like you're gonna hook up for sure well i started all my kids on night crawlers yeah well i never makes it even worse i never because that's immoral so I didn't do that. No bait fishing. But anyway, but I made him take up the fly rod, and he deeply resented it.

And I had a pretty lazy, fair attitude with my kids about most things. You get to choose your political beliefs or whatever. I'm not into forcing my beliefs on my kids except for a couple of things. And one of them was you have to be able to competently cast. And this one kid was like, not debatable. Well, because no one else is going to teach him. You know what I mean? That's like your duty as a father.

And you got to, you know, I like wing shooting, so that too. But anyway, this one kid really hated it and stared at me in this resentful, almost Oedipal way, like I want to kill you. But I kept at it, and it was such a great victory

because he really became talented and learned to love it. So I fish with him a lot. And, uh, but now I'm fishing with one of my girls. Are you a camp guy? You're, you're in Maine. You have a camp, right? We have a camp. How'd you know that?

Cause that's like so Maine culture. You go out for a paddle and you go to the camp. Yeah. Every, every house in Maine in the woods is a camp. And then we have a camp, which is our family house where we grew up and then we have a fish,

we have another camp, which is off grid, just cabins on a river. And that's the fishing camp. That's the fishing camp. Got it. Though we fish at both, but we have a fully,

no electricity or running water place, which is great. Do your kids like going to the camp? Oh, they're obsessed. Yeah, they love it. Yeah, because I mean, you know, you know, no electricity or running water place, which is great. And probably- Do your kids like going to the camp? Oh, they're obsessed. Yeah. They love it. Yeah. Because I mean, you know, you can, we shoot a lot and, you know, you can shoot off the

porch and swim in the river and the fishing for a couple of months is pretty great. It, it, it turns up again in September. We're mostly for brook trout and brook trout really don't let any water over 70. They're not into it at all. So they find the springs or they just kind of disappear, but they come back in September. So most of August, it's shooting heavy on the Tannerite, 308 into Tannerite. That's how we clear the woods. Put a smile on any kid's face.

Yeah, and the forest in Maine is very different from the forest out here. It's like a rainforest. We get so much precipitation, and white pines dominate, of course, different from the forest out here. I mean, it's like a rainforest. I mean, we get so much precipitation. And, you know, white pines dominate, of course, at the whole point of Maine is the eastern white pine. But we get a ton of spruce and fir and cedar and a lot of other things. But mostly spruce and fir just like just pop up like, you know, like 5 o'clock shadow. They're just everywhere. So, you know, there's a lot of – not a lot, but there's, you know, you have to cut basically if it's your land.

And so we try to use Tannerite to do that because it's just so much more fun. Oh, that's how you chop them down. Well, no, I mean, we use chainsaws typically, but Tannerite is fun. You know, did you guys see that the, you know, the story of the couple that had a gender reveal party for a baby? Burn the forest down. Yeah, I just saw it. I saw on the news this morning that they were being charged

for the death of a firefighter. Yeah, a crew lead died on a big fire. 30 felonies or something they got charged with. It was some ridiculous number like that. It's pretty hard to set the forest in Maine on fire. It's really wet. Yeah, I can picture that's upside too. It's a little more like Oregon than it is

Montana. And this is, this is north, north, like the big Northwood. Uh, this is Western Maine, which is the mountainous part of Maine. So a lot of Maine actually Northern Maine is flat. Coastal Maine is Rocky and really don't have

that many evergreens. Um, the mountains of Western Maine. So sort of maybe two hours above portland and then it's all paper company land up to the canadian border so less like pond swamp country more well there's swamps all over maine which is like the downside that yeah just an insane amount of water insane amount of water an insane amount of swamps and you know depending on the year the ticks are just ridiculous and you have to be happy you know comfortable comfortable with mosquitoes and black flies, which I am. I've just totally zenned out and I don't even care.

But the ticks, some years are really bad. In fact, it was last year. The estimate was we lost half of all yearling moose to blood loss from ticks. No kidding. Oh, it's real. It's totally intense. This year, I mean, I'm in the woods every day and six, eight ticks. And I, I mean, I haven't worn shorts a single day. I got to Maine on June 10th. I haven't worn shorts a single day. Because of that.

Not one. What is, don't wear shorts in Maine? Because that's like, you don't do that where we live. And I still get six or eight ticks every day. moose study, they were averaging a little over 47,000 ticks on each calf moose. Have you ever seen it? I have not seen it in person, but it's over 20 pounds of ticks, if you can imagine that. It's so, well, I mean, it's disgusting, obviously, like beyond, it's like the most repulsive thing you've ever seen, but it's also just a tragedy. You see it and you just feel so sorry. Moose are a big thing where we live. I hit one two years ago, totally destroyed my truck.

I hit a bull moose going 70 and it just totaled a full-size Silverado on him. So they're kind of a threat. They kill dogs. Moose are like the only thing in the Maine woods that will hurt you. So you kind of have ambivalent feelings about moose. But when you see the ticks on them, you really have sympathy because it's just – and that's why they're in the swamps all day. They're missing huge patches of fur and the clusters of ticks are just like – never seen anything like it. Ticks the size of your thumb.

Thousands of them. Just engorged with blood. Engorged. Yeah. The poor animals, you know. Is it widely known that you produce, that you like do your show from not Manhattan? I don't know. That you like do your show from Maine? I don't know that it is.

I had a, there was. I remember being like, really? When I found that out. I didn't know you could pull that off. Oh, yeah. And it's. There's got to be people who are like, well, I'm going to do that too. When people should.

I mean, you know, some people really like cities. I emphatically don't. I don't see the upside. I have really strong feelings about it. I try not to express them because there are a lot of great people who live in cities and I don't want to alienate them. It's like golf. I don't golf, but I don't attack golf.

Oh, I do. Even though it's not my thing. Yeah, I was going to say. Well, in my heart I do, but I don't say that out loud. So I'm not attacking cities, but I just, I don't care to live that way. Spencer likes to golf. At all. And I'm sure he's a nice person. He seems like a nice person. Oh, you know I was going to ask you about, see that, show me

your arm, Spencer. Spencer got this new tree. Now, he could have planted a thousand trees for what it cost him to get that tree. You like trees? I was going to ask, do you have tattoos? We've been arguing about tattoos lately. I'm not going to answer, do you have tattoos? We've been arguing about tattoos lately. I'm not going to answer that question.

Let me just say, I was in Jacksonville in 1987 drunk, and I did wind up with a couple of them. And you did or didn't wind up with them? I did, yeah. I mean, it was the 80s, and I drank a lot. I no longer drink or go to Jacksonville, so I'm fine now. But I do love trees, and I love that. And then you spend part of your year working out of Florida. Yeah.

So do you pack up the whole operation? Everybody goes with you? Yeah. Yeah. Do they look forward to that part of the year? Yeah. I mean, I really care about the outdoors and that's why I'm here. And so, yeah, we live on the West Coast of Florida on one of the barrier islands

where tarpon fishing is kind of the center of the – it's the reason the town is there. You're into that. Yeah, I like tarpon. Honestly, I don't – I like tarpon fishing. I live in like the world's capital, tarpon fishing, but I really like snook and redfish, snook mostly. So all winter I fish for snook on a fly. And, you know, you can catch one snook after the other in the mangroves, but to catch a 40 and snook on a fly is definitely something you need to dedicate years to doing.

I think it's actually harder than tarpon fishing. Tarpon fishing on a fly is heavily luck related. So I- You hear that, Callahan? Yes, sir. I do think that. I mean, it's just- He just hasn't had luck.

It's a- Have you tried on a fly for tarpon? Oh yeah. Yeah. You've pulled it off by now though, haven't you? Oh yeah. No, I've got a handful, but it is. I think I knew you win.

Like, you know, my buddies that are guides and do it all the time, like they definitely have this, oh, it happens or it doesn't. And there's no more thought process that goes into it. That is totally true. You have to be able to get the fly to them. It's very quick reaction. It's not casting, obviously, to trout or even to snook where you're sight fishing and you're thinking, okay, lead them. It's just a pure reaction.

I fish with actually a one-piece nine-weight because I don't like casting the big. The one-piece don't blow up. And that's why i do it so i use a lighter rod for it explain what you mean when you say blow up well your rod will shatter oh you mean blow up like break well there's a big fish yeah have you have you got one of those uh mako reels no i those things are insane it's so funny i caught one tarpon this spring because i go to maine pretty early so tarpon season where I live starts, well, it kind of depends on the year. Last year it started, I caught a tarpon in March.

This year it was a little bit later, maybe mid-April. And I fished throughout April and early May. And my last day in Florida, I caught a tarpon, my first cast, maybe 120-pound tarpon. Really? And my rod, my son was using my rod. So I borrowed a friend's rod and the reel was broken. And it just immediately, I mean, they just, well, you know, you've caught him. You know, it's almost a chore to catch him.

That's why people snap him off. It's like, oh, I caught the tarpon. Great. Good for me. But you don't want to actually get him to the boat because it's really intense. But this thing took off and the reel hit my thumb and I couldn't use my hand. It was absolutely awful. So that's like the one kind of fishing.

I fish a lot. I fish every day. And that's the only kind of fishing where I think the reel matters. I mean, even with snook. I mean, I never put a fish on the reel. Ever. I'm happy to take car fish. Yeah.

I mean, I've seen people take more time to land a trout fly fishing, trying to get it on the reel and mess around. No. Then I've seen, I've seen like pro tarpon people land tarpon with proper rod mechanics, proper reel mechanics in less time than I've seen sloppy trout fishermen. It's totally right. Like Andy Miller said, it's like someone who's great. The guy I've fished with Austin ladder is actually from Montana can, I mean, he can muscle 150 pound tarpon to the boat in like six minutes.

But for a normal person like me, who fishes a lot but is not a guide, I mean, it'd take 25 minutes to get the fish to the boat.

In fact, last year I caught a fish that was big enough and it was a nasty enough fight that I actually took a nap in the boat. That's how old I am. I mean,

it just wore me right out. That's awesome. Hey, what's, how does snook fishing work? Snook fishing is the best. Like, how do you guys go about it? You just right out. That's awesome. Hey, how does snook fishing work? Snook fishing is the best. How do you guys go about it? You just get out in a flats boat.

Actually, I do it. I like to fish on foot for trout too. I really don't like fishing from a boat. I never do float trips, for example. Yeah. I just, I'm not into it. I'm not into bobber fishing in general, but I like to walk. You get some nice long drifts though, man.

You do. Like a mile. To be honest, my snobbery is based on my lack of skill. So my son actually does a lot of indicator fishing and he's like, you're an idiot. For trout, I do a lot of swinging wet flies. I tie a lot and I tie for myself and my son and a couple of other people. So I've got all these like super strong theories about trout flies. So you're like a purist, man.

I don't know if I'm a purist. I love to tie flies. And I always have. And I love wet flies. And I love Maine featherweight streamers are the two things really that I spend most time tying. Anyway, whatever. So that – anyone you know who ties, just ask them what you tie affects how you fish. So if you're like super into tying hoppers, you know, you're throwing hoppers early season, even when there

aren't any hoppers, because you tied it and you've like spent all winter thinking about how the fish are reacting. Oh shit, it's purple this year or whatever, you know what I mean? So like, anyway, I don't do a lot of bobber fishing. I mostly do walk-up fishing. I just like walking along rivers and streams. So for

snook, you know, you get out, we have a lot of mangrove islands where we live so i just get out i always wait barefoot there's really nothing that'll you know if you're sort of awake you're not going to step on a ray you're fine and and i try to you know you see the snook and then you try and that's like you're like stalking along the edges of mangrove islands oh yeah looking for the way acre. Absolutely. And it's skinny water.

Very, very. I mean, I have a flats boat. I have, which actually sank, you know, tarp and my son's, I bought a, a Hell's Bay and I'm cheap. So I bought an old one and it had a bait well. Now why a Hell's Bay would have a bait well, since I've never heard of someone using a Hell's Bay to bait fish, but whatever, it had a bait well in it and the valve in the bait well was bad and the boat literally sank the second week of May off an island in

Charlotte Harbor as we were fishing with my son in it. And it cost me a huge amount of money to get it back. To get it salvaged, yeah. Have you done that? You're supposed to buy insurance for it, which I never do because I'm like, why would I buy

insurance? You can't, it can be legally dicey to walk away from them dude buy the insurance i think it's 50 bucks a year it was like six thousand dollars to get the boat towed back to the marina it was insane it was insane i'm still mad about it but whatever anyway the point is um i like to fish on foot very very much and i and i do think your catch rate goes down i mean obviously the most efficient way to fish is to have someone pull you stand on the platform at the front hold your fly you know wait to see the fish draw it across his nose you know whatever but i fish by myself a lot so um i'm happy to catch fewer at this age i mean i'm so freaking old that i'm happy to and i've

caught a lot of fish so i'm happy to catch fewer fish but be more fully immersed in and is the is the mark the over 40 inches it is for me i mean you know anyone who fishes a lot winds up in your head kind of and so in my head 40 inches is like holy shit that's a snook and and a 40 inchinch snook, for some reason, snook are one of those weird fish where I think to get to that size, there's just like four standard deviations of intelligence higher. So it's pretty easy to fool like a 28-inch snook, just one after the other after the other. If you can, you know, I tie an Enrico Pugliese bait fish that I think is pretty compelling to snook.

So I feel like I can do pretty well. But to catch a 40 and to fool a snook that big. He's just been duped too many times. I think so. And I just think it's just hard to get that big. And I just know from my catch rate, I've caught very few, like five in my life. And I fished a lot in the same place. That's the other thing.

I fish in the same places. So I know the places pretty well. You know, at a certain point you kind of know the water and I've caught very few snook that big. So I think that's the most exciting. I love tailing redfish. We've got some environmental problems

where I live with the red tide and I think it's really affected the redfish a lot. Yeah. It's very upsetting. That's having to do with how they're draining water off of Ochoa, right? I think it has to do with the golf courses. I mean, it's's like there are a lot of theories about it i mean i could bore you for hours i won't but uh there are a lot of theories on it i've actually got so upset about

we did a couple shows on it on fox i'm not sure anyone was interested except me but um i am interested well it's awesome that you get to use your platform that water quality matters like all that you always will i'm an environmentalists, really? Really? Well, then why aren't you upset about the water quality in South Florida? And why is this happening? Clearly, it's phosphates from development and golf courses. It's the cutting of the mangroves along the water line, obviously. Yeah, it is a multi-pronged thing, like everything in conservation. And it's the Army Corps dicking with the drainage.

It's often the Army. And no offense, I'm not against the Army Corpsor, and I think they do, you know, good stuff in a lot of places, but boy, they use blunt instruments. We had someone on the show that did... We had someone on the show, we recorded in Florida. I wish we could find that episode.

It was someone who was like... They took a... Remember we had them on, they did kind of like a historic approach on it. Got into that big flood in the twenties, it killed everybody. And yes,

that's right. And then everybody's like, okay, so that's not going to happen again. And then we like over corrected. That's exactly what that's. And that's exactly right. And,

and you know, the army corps job is not to make certain the water quality is good enough to sustain a robust fishery. That's kind of not what they're thinking. It was like, you know, hundreds of people got killed. That's exactly right not what they're thinking. Oh, yeah, at the time it was like, you know, hundreds of people got killed. That's exactly right.

And Florida has a lot of water-related drama. There's just a lot of water in Florida, and it's complex. But, you know, I've seen them do this a couple times. There was a hurricane up in northern New England where we live, what, maybe 15 years ago? I can't really remember, but about 15 years ago. And they had massive flooding in Vermont.

And Vermont had all these, you know, pretty blue lines of small bore trout streams that are just, and I like small stream fishing very much. You know, you get your cane three weight and go, you know what I mean? Like throw for brookies. And the Army Corps came in and basically paved all the streams. I'm overstating that slightly, but they're just like, well, we have a problem with these streams. They're flooding the towns and we're just going to take all the obstructions out. What?

Yeah. So that, you know, you, you bring earth moving equipment into a, into a stream really? Yeah. And flatten it out. Just so it ran off slicker. Thank you. That's exactly right. So really I'm not attacking them.

I think there are probably a lot of good people, the army corps of Engineers, but they're not thinking about the effects on the fishery. And that was distressing. Yeah, their task with the town floods, make it so the town doesn't flood. They're engineers. And by the way, I'm probably a little more on the Ted Kaczynski side of the equation, actually, when it comes to development. Actually, a lot more, if I'm being totally honest. He was a Montana guy for a while. He was a Montana guy.

He was a Montana guy and obviously a bad person who killed people and i'm totally opposed to that but also you know not a stupid person at all and a very deep person and an interesting person with a lot of anyway whatever don't get me going but um i but i think you know people have a right to have houses and people want to live in pretty places and you can't stop all development you should stop all strip malls and dollar stores obviously and you can't stop all development. You should stop all strip malls and dollar stores, obviously. But you can't stop all development and people want to golf. I get it.

So you've got competing imperatives and desires and it's a country of 350 million people. It can't just be about, you know, 52-year-old fly fishermen. Okay, I get it. On the other hand, like, the views of 52-year-old fly fishermen should also be represented.

Yeah. I think they should be. We should have Spencer on sometime just to talk about why he likes to golf. Spencer's golfing segment. Oh, I think that's, was that episode 107 saving the Everglades? That sounds like a good title for that show.

No, I think saving the Everglades. Was that the name of the show? Yeah. Yeah. They do. They did I think... Saving the Everglades. Was that the name of the show? Yeah. Yeah. They do... I thought they did a very good job. We had a couple people, various subject matter experts.

Kelly Ralston, Matt Cook, you and Yanni in Fort Lauderdale? That's correct. Okay. Saving the Everglades. Episode 107. Did you learn... Did you... Your dad got you started in fishing?

Yeah. Yeah, because we... Was his dad into it? No, actually my father was an orphan who spent his early life in an orphanage. So no. No way, really? Yeah. Oh yeah.

What happened? The Home for Little Wanderers in real name. Well, what happened? How'd that go down? Well, he actually found out later his mother was just really, really young, like mid-teens. And she was the Swedish girl and she got pregnant. And so her parents made her put the baby up for adoption and wound up in this orphanage. So he grew up in foster homes at an orphanage and then ultimately was adopted.

You're kidding me. No. Have you read your dad's Wikipedia wikipedia page i've never read wikipedia saying i don't read a single word about myself or my family not one time okay uh the what you're saying like lines up with that page but my impression of reading that was like this is out of uh a movie like it is the it's a it's a tragic wikipedia yeah it's a tragic tale. That's on Wikipedia? Yeah, it's a tragic tale. I hate that. The violations of privacy are just like too extreme, you know?

You're a public figure. I know, but my family has nothing to do with it. I had kind of this lunacy. Well, your dad's a historical person. Well, my dad's a great man and like a real outdoorsman and a really avid wing shooter

and a great guy. But he was very intense about camping in the woods and, you know, bird hunting and dogs especially. Always had bird dogs, a lot of them. And highly intense about it. So how did he – because that wanted to be a result of his adoptive family. Honestly, I don't really know because like the things that are closest to you, you know the least about actually. It's like I never really asked. But I think when he was little, somebody brought him to a YMCA camp in Maine.

And that had a huge effect. So then, you know, he left high school, joined the Marine Corps, you know, didn't have credentials, but he's very smart. So he wound up in journalism because he'll take anybody and became a fairly prominent and successful reporter at the LA Times and ABC News in California. So we lived in California. I grew up in California and Southern California. But we had this camp in Maine because he really felt it was important to eat baked beans and be cold. And he's from New England. I can dig it. And so we would spend the summers.

We'd go from La Jolla, California, which has got to be one of the richest zip codes in the world. It's all on the beach and everyone surfs and everyone's mom smokes weed at the breakfast table. And then we'd spend the summer in this beautiful but totally impoverished mill town where they made clothespins no exaggeration that was the town business they had a clothespin factory which went out of business around 1980 and there was never kind of any employment since and we've been in that town our whole lives

and it's just beautiful and they're great people but it's very much a sporting culture i mean that's what without getting boring in one sentence. So Maine, after the Civil War, Maine was an agricultural state. The Civil War happens. Every other man in the entire state joins the Union Army. I think they have the highest enlistment rate of any state. They leave Maine for the first time and realize, wait a second, you can farm in places where there aren't granite boulders every four feet. And the growing season is longer than six weeks.

So everyone moved to Ohio. So Maine had, I think, 10 million acres under cultivation in 1860 it now has a million acres so the state went from like that right yes it went from being a state of farms to a state of of timberland of paper company land so it was bought up by the pingree family of massachusetts and a couple others and the majority of the state to this day is owned by timber holding companies. So in exchange for owning the majority of the state, and there's very little public land in Maine, the paper company struck this deal where if you live in Maine, you can use paper company land. There's no sense of, it's the opposite of Montana and Wyoming where you get shot for going on someone's land, especially Wyoming. In Maine, you can walk onto the land. It's like, there's an expectation. I can just hunt on your land.

I can fish on your land. I can camp on your land. The only thing I can't do is cut the trees. So it's this. It stands to reason. But it's, it creates such an interesting culture because you have a state full of like by national standards, very poor people who have amazing sporting opportunities for hunting and fishing. And we have this incredible, what they reintroduced turkeys into Maine and they just went crazy.

Obviously, moose and deer, where I live, tons of bears, lots. I saw a bear on my property last week. I thought it was a man. It was black bears, huge bears. And then we have trout and salmon. And then in the fall, ruffle grouse and woodcock. Ruffle grouse in Maine are called partridge for some reason yeah i grew up when i grew up they would really refer to them yeah no one calls them grouse but they are my dad would call them pats patridge

so you're just like you know if you're working part-time in the woods, you know, cutting for the paper mill or you work at the dollar store, you know, you don't have any money. But, I mean, you really have a lot of opportunity in a way that they don't have out west. Obviously, there's better fishing. In some ways, there's better hunting out west. But the access in Maine is just incredible for normal people. And it creates a really interesting culture where, you know, people who work at the mill fly fish. So like in the state of New York, for example, or, you know, a lot of other place, Connecticut, the only people who fly fish are people who are rich, you know, but in Maine, like poor people fly fish and then tie their own flies.

And it just, it's a really neat, it's a really neat sporting culture. I think. Corinne sent us a article, um, from years ago where there was a thing in the Hollywood Reporter about some guy that decided to, you were fishing in Central Park. Yes, I was. And a guy decided to make like a, started to film you. Yeah. And you had to explain to him that it was A-okay. I had this gig where I worked in New York on the weekends. So I would never obviously live in New York because that's soul destroying.

But I had a job there on the weekends. So I would go into New York and stay in a hotel for two nights by myself, which is just like hell. Well, you're on the road a lot. You know, it's hell. And I just had to get outside. It would like drive me freaking crazy. I can't. You know what I mean? So I would walk up to Central Park with my eight weight and try and catch bass in the park.

Do you see a lot of people fishing there? No, I've never seen a fly rod there. So I would do it every weekend. I'd get off work. I hosted a morning show and then I'd walk up to the park and cast my stupid fly rod just to like feel better. And this guy comes up to me, he's filming me. And I thought, oh, I want to hit this guy. You know, it's such a violation of your privacy.

It's like, I'm fishing, please. You know, God, it's like someone filming you having sex. It's like, no, no, no. This is the private realm. Like, I'm not, I don't want to be seen doing this. And it turned out he worked for Howard Stern. And he was fine. He actually later died of a heroin OD, weirdly, or maybe not so weirdly.

But he goes, what are you doing? And I said, I'm fly fishing. And he said, fly fishing? He thought I meant like house flies. I was fishing with house flies. He goes, where do you catch the flies? This is the guy that worked with Howard Stern. Yeah.

And I said, why don't – I was totally confused. But he's from New York, so, like, he doesn't know. You know, like, he understands subway – like, he's – you know, he was an idiot. And I said, no, I don't – no, I tie the flies. What do you mean you tie them? So I showed him my fly box and my stupid, you know, poppers where I was going to take sheet foam and make the popper out of pieces of sheet foam glued together rather than like doing them on a Dremel tool or whatever. I had this whole theory, like I'm going to create this new kind of popper or whatever.

Very ugly poppers, but very effective. So I like showed him my box of poppers. You guys became regular old buddies. Actually, I absolutely hated him. But once he got the camera out, I was like, okay, don't be a dick. Try to be nice. And he didn't mean any harm. He was just dumb.

And you had to show him the poppers because you never know who your first investor is going to be. Right? My poppers were awful. Well, I got you. At that point, they were awful. It's funny how much mental disk space I've devoted to dumb questions like how to make the perfect foam popper. But actually, I'm not bragging.

I've perfected it. You take a nail, like a three penny nail, and you put it in a Dremel tool and you just slide the foam over it and then you shape it with sandpaper. What's the Dremel? Oh. Right? You put the nail in the Dremel tool. So basically, you're turning your Dremel into a lathe.

Yeah. I mean, it is a lathe. You're turning it into like a tiny little lathe. Right. And you could actually use like a jeweler's lathe for it, but this is just way easier. And you can, it's crazy what you can, I mean, do you ever fish with poppers? I have. I don't do a ton of fly fish to be frank, but I have for sure.

You can get really carried away with it. It's crazy um so i i obviously i need help um but i think the more do you tie hundreds of flies every year oh yeah i tie a lot of flies yeah can we get a quick popper jump aside here this is something i'm dying to ask you anyway yeah uh your your old man had a year-long stint as the ambassador to the Seychelles. Yeah. Did you get to go to the Seychelles? One of the saddest things that ever happened, no.

So I went to college. That's like the, if you're into throwing poppers for giant trevally. The GT fishing is like the best in the world. It's the destination. That's why I went there for my honeymoon. What? I went there for my honeymoon. Shut up.

What? Yeah, we didn't do it right. We went to, we went to all three major islands. We didn't go to any of the off islands. You know what I mean? We didn't go to like, but I didn't realize at the time, I kind of was half thinking that I would get it, I would throw it in. I didn't really, it's to go from, to go from the Seychelles to like the outer islands that are famous for fishing is about like getting from here to the seychelles i mean it's like a whole thing but in like a dangerous plane

yeah i mean it's just like it's not like you don't just like like go talk to the guy down at the beach and have him buzzy out there you know i mean it's like a whole different deal so i've been there but not really gotcha had a great time though the thing that surprised me most is, I can't remember what happened, but I had to go down and get a prescription for something. And it was like 66 cents, including my doctor's visit. For Xanax? No. Oh, sorry. Whatever they got going on for the medical plan, I think it's highly subsidized by tourists.

Like when something happens, they don't charge you any money. I get all my codeine cough syrup there. Yeah, like I got like an antibiotic or something. I can't remember. And I mean, it's so long ago. It was 13 years ago. But I do remember. Oh, shit.

You know what we didn't talk about, Seth? What? The freaking squirrel hides, man. Oh. I'm laying here as a reminder. Do you squirrel hunt a lot? Yeah. Yeah.

What do you use? You ever tie a fly called a squirrel tail? Oh, Do you squirrel hunt a lot? Yeah What do you use? You ever tie a fly called a squirrel tail? Is that a fly? Or is it a hare's ear? What's a fly? There's squirrel hair leeches There's squirrel hair I've used a ton of squirrel hair There's one called the red squirrel nymph

That's a good one Okay, so I use red squirrel all the time My roommate in graduate school would tie flies for money He would have contracts to sell them And he would now and then He didn't hunt But he would now and then accompany me Roommate in graduate school would tie flies for money. He would have contracts to sell them. And he would now and then, he didn't hunt, but he would now and then accompany me to go out to shoot pine squirrels. And then he'd take their fur and put it in a coffee grinder and make flies with it. Make dubbing out of it. Well, actually, pine squirrel, just the pelt, it's an amazing leech pattern.

Yeah. I've used that a lot. I've used that a lot. I also use mink, which is totally underrated for mouse patterns. I do a ton of mousing in midday, by the way. They always tell you, oh, mousing's for

Spring Creek at 2 in the morning. Bullshit. Try it at noon. No, no, I'm serious. Swing a mouse pattern. I probably shouldn't say that. Just cast across 45 degrees, let it hang down. Just cast across 45 degrees. Let it hang down. Drag a wake behind it.

It's insane. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. And you only get about three casts, and then it's like they're not taking it. Fine. Move on to something else. But I would say at least 50% of the time, midday, the biggest trout in the pool will be like, holy shit. And you hook up every single time.

That's easy. I've done that all over the world. Floating down a river in the middle of the night, too. Totally. Or wading through a muck. I mean, I've done this. Like Silver Creek or, you know, in Idaho or whatever. You know, it's like famous for midnight mousing.

No, midday. Well, you know, we saw those. We'll talk about these squirrels some other time, Seth. Beautiful job, though. Seth's going to start a podcast called Squirrel Grease Podcast. Are you going to send them into Panther Martin and get your money? No, these are for a different project. These are for a friend of ours

who's a squirrel enthusiast. We're going to send him a black phase eastern gray, gray phase eastern gray, fox squirrel. We're going to send him the whole... He's a squirrel enthusiast, but somehow he doesn't have squirrel hides. So you take the guard hairs out of this and that's like amazing tailing. That's good stuff.

Don't touch that one. Sorry. You can touch it. You can look at it and touch it, but just don't pluck anything. This is for a guy named Guy. We had a dude. This is for a guy named Guy Zuck. I did this morning show for four years. We had this guy come on once who like worked at some bald eagle preserve.

We have a lot of bald eagles where we live and they eat my trout and so I deeply resent them, but whatever. So he has this bald eagle on the set and they're incredibly nasty animals. I'd never seen one up close, but they're really hostile. And I think this, the bird knew I didn't like it.

And he was like angry at me. And at one point he jumps up and he loses a tail feather. So I snatched it up. The guy's like, you know, you're not allowed to have that. Only native Americans can have it. It's a federal law.

Okay. Right. Okay. Got it. So I bring it home. I took it and tied two wet flies out of it two soft tackles and those were the single most effective for salmon i've ever fished bald eagle flies yes bald eagle now we did i can't remember if we had him on we had a warden on uh and we raised that question with him and he has he had this guy we'd had on twice in his career issued citations for what you're talking about oh yeah

it's not there were egregious examples the one he's sitting at a stoplight and the guy next to him has his rearview mirror adorned with raptor feet. So he pulled him over to have a chat. The other one, he's leaving the grocery store, and he happens to be walking by a truck and sees that the guy has a small truckload of raptor carcasses, and so he waited for him to come out of the grocery store to

ask him a few questions. But he said, yes, it's true, but those are the two times I was compelled to follow up. Well, you can't be stupid. Whenever I eat California condor, I grill it indoors, because it's true. Those are the two times I was compelled to follow up. Well, you can't be stupid. Whenever I eat California Condor, I grill it indoors because it's just too provocative to put it on the barbecue. Hey, folks. Exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada.

And boy, my goodness, do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew! Our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada. The great features that you love in on x are available for your hunts this season the hunt app is a fully functioning gps with hunting maps that include public and crown land hunting zones aerial imagery 24k topo maps waypoints and tracking

that's right you were always talking about uh we're always talking about OnX here on the Meat Eater Podcast. Now you guys in the Great White North can be part of it, be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services handpicked by the OnX Hunt team.

Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. On X-Maps dot com slash meet. Welcome to the On X Club, y'all. What was I? We were on squirrels. Talking about tying all kind of flies.

What do you shoot squirrels with? What do you use? 22s. You ever use 17 HMR? Yeah. What do you think of it? It does too much damage, man. Yeah.

But now I have a game point. like a solid point to game point. Yeah, I do like it. But it does, I own one and like it, but I prefer the 22. The ammo never got as cheap as they promised it would, in case you haven't noticed. Tucker, you should go to themediator.com and read a caliber battle. He's not going to tell you. I actually have strong views on caliber, so tell me a caliber battle. He's not going to tell you. I actually have strong views on calibers, so tell me what this is. I'm not going to tell you.

He's going to use this to drive traffic. Let me teach you something about media, Tucker. Now, we could use this here platform to send people to another one of our platforms. Yeah. Tucker, he'd be like, you know, indictments were made against two senators. To find out what happened, go to my article. See me on TikTok. That's right.

So we have a caliber battle. It's about the.22 long rifle versus a.17 HMR. You can find it on TheMeatEater.com. Seriously? Is that even a question? So what are the measurements you're using? He uses... Because I shoot them both.

Go ahead. We measure in three categories. Ballistics, shootability, and versatility. And cost. Well, I mean, it's... When you did a.223,.2250, you factored in the abundance of.223 and low cost. I read the article. Yes, that's correct.

Shootability means more than just, like, the recoil or the availability of ammo. Is shootability an actual word? It is on TheMeteor.com. And you know who's great with this series that we do? Garrett. He is a good resource for our writer, Jordan Sillers. Jordan has a question about using a.22-250 on a white-tailed deer. He will shoot Garrett an email, and Garrett always has the answer.

What do you think of that,.22-250 on a white tail? I don't know why. Sure, you could do it think of that? 22, two 50 on a white tail? Uh, I don't know why, like sure you could do it, but like, I agree. I totally, I completely agree. Yeah.

I completely agree. I 22, two fifties are, you think it's okay. Amazing on white tail. Yeah. Yeah. It's,

it's kind of like the whole argument with like six, five, three hundreds, you know, how could you hunt an elk with a six, five until you've shot an elk with a six, five, 300.

And it's very catastrophic. The 6.5, people are like obsessed. I can't handle any more calibers, so I haven't gotten one, but. But it's like for good reason. You're saying you like 22 250s for deer? Yeah, man. They're legal in this state, right?

Yeah. Because it's a centerfire. They're just, they're moving so fast that when that bullet expands, when it hits, it's very catastrophic. Like it's same, like I said same like i said six five three hundred if you never shot one one of weatherby's cartridges yeah you shoot an elk with one of those and you're it's just like whoa that's it's way harder than like people are gonna hate this but

like then my 338 win mag kind of concept yeah as far as i mean once it comes out of that it comes out of the barrel a thousand feet faster than like a 300-weight. What does it do to your barrel life, though? I mean, how many rounds could you put, like 2,000, and then you're done? Yeah, but see. They make your gun live about as long as a smoker. No, it's totally right. But it also has to do with like, all that is is heat, right?

So it has to do with how you shoot your gun. If you went out with a 6.5 300 or a 22 250 and shot, you know, a box of ammo through it and you just started wrapping rounds, then yeah, it's going to burn up your barrel. You couldn't afford to do that anyway at this point. Right. Yeah. Well. You'd have to be sponsored by Federal to do something like that. Montana's not too bad. No, I'm serious. I buy guns. I mean, I shoot a lot. A lot, a lot. And

I think about, in fact, I even I got an 8mm Mauser because I buy a lot of Kurosu Primer ammo because it's super cheap. Like, you know, Turkish ammo, Greek ammo from 1940. It's like, I don't give a shit. I'll clean my barrel with Windex. The gun costs $400. Do you know what I mean?

And I can shoot, and I actually like the round, but I'm not going to get a 6.5 Creedmoor because, really, I'm paying even $300 blackout. I wanted to get a suppressed round blackout because a friend of mine has one that's such a fun gun. I'm not going to buy that

ammo because it just bums me out. Every bowling pin that I shoot is $2 or something. No thanks. Yeah, it's just a lot of those. Shootability, man.

Yeah. Right there. They're popular because they're good. No, they are good. We should do a new column where shootability by Tucker Carlson.

I'm just saying the cost of ammo, I was shooting a.308 the other day, which I really like. I like mine. I actually have a, I see you're left-handed. I have a left-handed bolt. It's like the only rifle I have a left-handed bolt on it and I like it. But I'm just thinking, how much is a.308 round now? Like, what is it?

What does it cost? You're left-handed? Yeah, very. Oh, that's good. But I shoot, but all my, all my bolt guns are right-handed because that's where they all come from. I was in my thirties before I had, and I couldn't get used to it. I initially didn't like it when I got a left-hand bolt. Do you know why I bought mine?

I only have one. It's my.308 because it was cheaper. Honestly, no one wants a left-hand bolt. I just bought a new 17 HMR. You ever shoot the Ruger 77? No. Oh. Like the Model 77.

The Model 77. And I've got it in.35 No. Oh. Like the Model 77. The Model 77. And I've got it in.357. It's like probably my favorite rifle. It is absolutely. And I just love the action on it. So I saw one in 17 and I was like, I just can't resist. And it was pretty cheap, but it was right-handed. And I liked it better than the left.

But it's cheap. Anyway, I just think the cost of ammo. I had one and my brother Danny has it now in Alaska. Really? Mm-hmm. Because it was right-handed. Once I made the switch, left-handed. Oh, so you're all about that now.

Now I'm Joe left-hand. I mean, I've always been left-handed, but now I got over the impulse to lower the gun, switch hands, work the bolt. Yeah. Which is, once I got over it, now I would never go back. But at first, I was just very – because we shot hand-me-downs. You grow up shooting hand-me-downs. Of course. So all the hand-me-downs are right-handed.

That's exactly how I grew up. And now I have so many right-handed bolt action rifles that I would like, what am I going to do with them all? You know what I mean? So I have to. Stick with them. Yeah. We good on calibers? Yeah, we got it covered.

Yeah. Hey, walk me through. Oh, you know, there's another thing I want to ask you first. Do you argue about politics with your kids? Not once. Not one time. We don't talk politics at home ever. Ever.

Not one time. I raised my kids in Northwest D.C., in Washington, D.C., in the city. And Washington's a very – I have to say, I mean, it's a very screwed up place and I'm glad I don't live there anymore. But I spent many years, decades there and it's a very pretty city. I mean we lived right on a national park. You would not know you were in a city. It's like – it's a nice place to raise kids if you're going to do it in a city. But you're right in the middle of all this political drama and because you are, Washington had this pretty wonderful culture of nonpartisanship in the neighborhoods.

Oh, yeah. So you live next to people because it's a transit city. So it's like people coming into work for this administration, that administration, the neighborhood that we lived in and raised our kids in was like the permanent people who stayed. And because you're around it all day, you just didn't talk about it at all. We would never talk politics. In fact, it was like forbidden. You don't bring that shit up at a dinner party. And, you know, a lot of people at dinner parties, you go over to someone's house for dinner.

That was very common every weekend. And like my neighbor was Hunter Biden's business partner. And Hunter Biden lived right down the street. You know, we would never – and I had many dinners with Hunter Biden and always liked him. Our wives were good friends. And we never talked politics one time ever. No kidding. Ever.

And you extended that into your personal sphere. And my wife was always pretty resolutely non-political um she's from michigan talks just like you that's great the car and the park and um and she was always kind of liberal but kind just not you know just nice person kind of thing um she got way more political when antifa showed up at her house uh that kind of radicalized her a little bit but but we just never we just got in the habit of never talking about i mean i i don't think i talked about my job with my kids a single time at dinner not one time and they sort of dimly were aware of what i did but then you know we lived in a neighborhood with, you know, senators and ambassadors and everyone has a kind of high profile sort of political job

in the world that they grew up in. And so, and there were a lot of famous people. And so my kids were just like, they don't like that stuff. They don't like politics. No, we never talked about it. And it, cause it felt a little bit like if you're a porn star, would you come home and be like, yeah, you'll never guess what I did today. You just like, wouldn't, it's just kind of not for kids. That's how we always felt and by the way i don't think you should politicize your kids like what is that you know they don't know what do they know they don't you know they're not married they don't have their own children they don't pay taxes they don't they can't even vote so like yeah that is i do why are you getting them involved i do

find it hard with them um and deal with my own kids when you talk about politicizing because something will come up and it's like extremely complicated. Yes. And they'll pick up a sentiment. And I almost want them to be like, no, even though that's a sentiment I just expressed, don't have that sentiment. Well, kind of. Because there's a whole lot of things that went into that sentiment.

And so just don't like. How old are your children? Go ride your bike. Six, eight, and 11. So I think if I were raising my kids now, thank God I'm not. They're all out of the house and all sort of happy and well adjusted. But if I were raising them now, I would push back against this shit because there are totally unscrupulous people who are trying to politicize kids. And I almost don't care what your political views are.

Stay the fuck away from children. I mean that. Like, what are you doing? You know, you're not allowed to have sex with children. You shouldn't be allowed to politicize. You know, they're children. Like, stop. And people are so aggressive in the world that I used to live in about throwing propaganda in your kids' faces and laying these heavy-duty moral trips on them and all this stuff that is so wrong that I think that if I had kids

in like sixth grade and they were coming home and saying stuff, I'd be like, you know, fuck your teachers, honestly. Fuck your teachers. Excuse me. Sorry. I shouldn't swear. Like I feel that way. Yeah.

Really strongly. I think it's like, it's so immoral to do that to someone who can't fight back over whom you have power. Teachers have power over kids. They can't disagree. Like who would do something like that to a child? You're not able to. Teachers have power over kids. They can't disagree. Like, who would do something like that to a child? They're a captive audience. I think that, yeah,

and you're not able to give the full, they're not equipped to understand, like, all the steps that got there. Exactly. And so when you introduce, like, when you introduce even contemporary subjects to them, you lose sight of the fact

that you're carrying behind you sort of like decades worth of understanding the evolution of ideas. Yes. And then all of a sudden you just deliver them. It'd be like you're giving them the answer without showing them the work. That's a really smart analogy.

And I recoil from it. But then I also don't want them to be like, I don't want them to be naive and idiots. Well, kids also have a hair trigger sense of moral outrage. All children do. It's very easy to exploit. So it's very easy to tell kids there's a right side and a wrong side. The wrong side is immoral.

The right side is virtuous and kids will buy it. Kids are extremely judgmental because they're not aware of their own shortcomings because they haven't failed yet. So your average 52-year-old, which is where I find myself, it's a little bit harder to judge because you're like, you know, I kind of get – I disagree with what you're doing, but I kind of get why you're doing it. Or in that circumstances, maybe I would do the same. You're less judgmental as you age because you understand how incredibly complex life is and decisions are hard to wise decisions are hard to reach. And sometimes people fail and you've failed and you know, as my father used to say, I was a kid, the root of all wisdom is knowing what an asshole you are. And as you age, you appreciate what an asshole you are. Kids do not appreciate that. And so you can turn them into the Camarouge in about 20 minutes. And the Camarouge literally did this with kids. They'd be like, you know,

here's an AK-47. Those are the bad guys. Go kill kids. They'd be like, you know, here's an AK-47. Those are the bad guys. Go kill them. And they're like, okay. And so to exploit that weakness in children strikes me as especially dishonorable. It really, really – I'm like so offended by it. I can't even – and by the way, it goes without saying that the politics that kids are being exposed to are not my politics. But even if they were, I would disagree with it. I just I'm just liberal in a traditional sense that way.

I think we should keep kids out of it. I really do. Talk talk through when you get involved in something like Pebble Mine, like on your show. I mean, you got to be like inundated with all like every issue on the planet. Right. Yeah. like on your show. I mean, you gotta be like inundated with all kinds, like every issue on the planet, right? Yeah. And here's one that probably wasn't like at,

wasn't in the news cycle. You know, on a national sense, wasn't like, it wasn't sort of like driving the day's news, right? But you kind of like hit on a thing like this and addressed it

and had people come talk about it. And it's not a ratings play. No. I don't imagine. No, it's definitely not a ratings play. My producers are like, really? Bristol Bay, Alaska? Like what?

The salmon spawn? Come on. Yeah. How often do you get, like, how often do you do a thing where you bring a thing up that is sort of dovetailed with your personal passion? Like you don't do a fishing report every night, right? No, I don't. But you're interested in fishing. Well, you know, I try not to, and this is something else you fight against as you age.

I try not to be boorish. Like if you had given me any leash at all, I would have bored you about fly tying for like an hour because I can't control myself. You know, how do you wrap the hack? Well, that's not the right way to Palmer. Like I could actually get stultifying on the subject, but you pull yourself back. So you try, you try to be self-aware and like, just because you're interested doesn't mean other people are and whatever. So I pull back a lot. I have all kinds of weird obsessions, mostly having to do with hunting and fishing and nature

and animals, dogs. I'm really, we have four dogs. They sleep on the bed, four Spaniels, you know, like, so I could do like a dog show, but not everyone, not everyone thinks like springers and English cockers are as endlessly fascinating as I think they are. I literally, back to the fly tying desk. Yeah, exactly.

I literally looked at pictures of my spaniels on the plane today flying here. That's how obsessed I am. But I don't, I don't want to impose that on my audience because they're not as interested as I am. But occasionally there's, there's a subject that the emotion comes welling up in such a way that I can't pull it back and destroying the largest salmon spawning ground in the world because some Canadian copper company wants more.

You know, no. And I just felt like that crossed a line in my mind. as a concept a lot, which is the more that people, especially, I'm just going to say it, I am one of them, but the more that rich people virtue signal about the environment and the earth, the more they tend to kind of degrade the environment and the earth. The more we talk about climate, and I'm not denying the existence of climate change at all. It's clear to me. On the other hand, the more we focus on that, the more I noticed that like the places I

fish become dirtier and there's more garbage by the side of the stream. Like whatever happened to stopping littering? Like if you can't stop littering, then you're failing as a conservationist. Like because littering is despoiling the environment and stuff like that. I just, I really feel strongly about that. And air and water quality is like the most basic level of conservation. There's nothing theoretical about it. If the water's too dirty for the fish to live, you're guilty of a crime. That's how I feel about it. It's super simple. And we can measure that. It's not hard to know whether that's happening. You know, we don't need some scientific model. Well, really, is the hockey stick

real? Like what was the temperature in medieval Europe? We don't need to guess about water quality. We can find out immediately and we can look at the fishery and the health of the fishery. And, you know, DDT, we didn't need to guess that it was killing birds of prey because suddenly there were fewer birds of prey. Like we knew that the shells were getting thinner and, you know, Rachel Carson was right. Okay. So we stopped. Anyway, you see my point.

So on that subject, it was like you know i'm not against mining i'm not against extraction i'm not against metals as a shooter you know i i go through a lot of copper so i'm for copper you're pro copper yeah i have jars of pennies in my closet so you know i'm i'm not against copper but it's a balance you know there are coppers found in a lot of different places. And like, how about we don't destroy this very rare place? And I was just in this weird circumstance for no fault of my own where I had some small – I mean, I'm a talk show host. I'm not elected to anything.

I have no actual power. But there was just this weird confluence of events where I did have some measure of influence on this one specific thing. Yeah. And it was timed. I mean, it was timed, right? Yeah. And again, my job is just to explain what I think the news means. It's a really simple job. My job is not to change the world. It's not to make, you know, lead a movement or anything like that. I mean, I have a very narrowly defined job description in my head. What's going on in the world? What does it mean? That's it. That's my whole job. And I write my script every, I write my open every night. I'm going to write it after the show. And, and that's what I brewed on. I'm, I'm basically a writer that I'm not basically, I'm literally a writer. That's my job. So I don't see myself as like waking up every

morning to make the world better, you know, save some fishing spot that I happen to like, but it just so happened that, you know, I had the, for a fleeting second, the power to have a small effect on this one thing that I cared about. And so I did, I tried to make a habit of that. Yeah.

I'm not an activist. I'm the opposite of an activist. What's the opposite of an activist? I like to watch. I'm a voyeur. I started as a print journalist my dad was a print journalist like the he my dad had politics i have politics but ultimately your job is to is to just sit quietly and watch things and try and figure out what they mean and tell people what happened i mean i really feel that way yeah but what was so

interesting about that moment in time over the course of how long the back and forth of pebble mine has been going was uh the activists from all corners of the activist world said holy shit even tucker carlson's talking about this, right? People are so dumb. It's like even Tucker Carlson, what, I'm on the side of some Canadian copper mine? Like, why would I be on that side? And I like Canada. I fished a lot in Canada.

I used to have property in Canada. But, like, why would I necessarily be on that side? It just shows how dumb people are. They're like, well, you must be for this. Well, no, actually, I'm not. You know, where people have assumptions. I don't really care what people think of me obviously you can't be this hated if you care and i really don't but i'm always kind of amazed by the assumptions that people have well you must think this will no why would i think that yeah no i really don't and and on the just because i i don't have any weird mystical reason but i i just really

enjoy the outdoors i have my whole life and i have my views on actual environmental stuff are definitely more on the radical side i just you know i don't think that we should ban wood stoves because of climate change so like but that doesn't mean i'm you know i think some of the climate stuff is a pure power grab and i notice noticed because I lived there for 30 years, I know a lot of the people involved in it. And, you know, they don't ever go outside, like ever. They know nothing about the natural world. And you're lecturing me on the environment? Really?

You know, there's another agenda here, and it's a political agenda. It's politics. Of course, there's a political agenda. It's politics. Of course, there's a political agenda. But the pure conservation environmentalist agenda is something I buy 100%. Why wouldn't I? I love nature. It's at the center of my life. You mentioned Rachel Carson. Yeah. Made me think of Rachel Maddow. You guys lined up at some point in your career. Is that a news organization when you were young? Yeah, I hired her actually. I had a show. There was a period when MSNBC didn't sort of know what it was. I had just, I'd been at CNN for a long time. I hated them. They were just so loathsome. Oh my God. They were like the worst people. It was like the collection of the

worst people in the world all worked in one place. Made it convenient to avoid. It was. It was. It was. And ultimately I left and MS was trying to like rebrand as like a more populist. I don't know what – they didn't really know what they wanted. But they made me the lead anchor there. I was later fired for low ratings. It didn't work.

But while I was there, I wanted someone to debate. You know, I wanted to like a – Oh, that's where you guys link up was. Yeah. So I went through. We actually had all these tapes from different agents, like, well, you should hire my client or whatever. And I got to hers and I was like, wow, this woman's really smart. And she's a linear thinker. She'd be like, okay, if this happens, then that happens. She was very rational in her debate style, which I love. And she's a nice person. And so we brought her on, we hired her to do this debate segment,

and I thought she was great. I always got along with her. In later life, she got obsessed with fishing. That's what I wanted to ask about. With fly fishing, yeah. I knew that you guys had had some overlap at a news organization, and I knew she liked to fish,

and I was curious if you guys were, like, just like a funny play. Like, it'd be a funny play as you two fishing. Well, it was sort of weird. Well, actually what happened was she wasn't into fishing when she was a radio host actually on this like progressive network Air America that later went defunct. I remember that. Wasn't Al Franken involved in that? Al Franken started it.

Exactly. And it was just a different time, you know, where you could have friends with different views. It was like a satellite show, right? Right. Exactly. Like a big serious or whatever the hell. And have friends with different views. It was like a satellite show, right? Right, exactly. Like a big serious or whatever the hell. And she was not into fishing. I was.

In fact, one of the reasons I got fired was I would like fish too much and not do my work. I was incredibly lazy and entitled at the time. Getting fired makes you less lazy and entitled. But I would literally, the show was shot in a warehouse in Secaucus, New Jersey, which is like. Oh, Secaucus. It's like a post-industrial wasteland. It's where all the slaughterhouses were. It's right outside the city on the other side of the Lincoln tunnel. It's truly unattractive, but there are all these retaining ponds there.

And so I would always bring my fly rod and just like bass fish before the show. And anyway, I ultimately got fired. So people see you on TV. Is it safe to assume you were fishing within 24 hours? First of all, for sure. Well, now, I mean, I live, I mean, I live on an Island in a Lake where, you know, fish rise off my dock. So it's pretty easy. But anyway, I got fired and she became the star of the network, which she still is. That was 15, at least 15 years ago. And she went on to serious stardom and she's like one of the most influential people in the Democratic Party. Then she got into fishing. And then she got into fishing and she told me this and I'm probably going to butcher this but I think it was a friend of hers said you're under a lot of stress.

You should go out into New York Harbor. There's pretty good striper fishing certain times a year and you should pick up a fly rod and see if you can take one on a popper. And she did after the show, like at night, which is pretty crazy. Also kind of dangerous actually to be fishing in New York Harbor at night, you know, but whatever. But she got really, really into it, like obsessed as people do with the fly rod, you know, something about the action of loading a rod. It's like one of the coolest sort of experiences in physics. You're just like, how does that happen? Anyway, she got really into it. And we've always gotten along.

I've never criticized her. I think she's totally sincere. We just have different views, which has always been fine with me. But you haven't fished. We've never fished. And she lives- I wanted to hear that you guys went fishing. No, we never did.

And I'm sure that we will, because some of the guys at TRCP know her well. I just never go anywhere anymore because like, why would I? So I go to Montana and Alaska and that's about it. Hey, let me ask you

about a current event D thing. I don't know if you're up on it or not. If you're not, you don't have to, no apologies necessary, but they did so they voted on if you don't know this by now like we don't really we don't release these the day we make them anyways today whatever the hell today is thursday it was a talk stone manning the blm biden's tap the person he tapped to head the BLM. You familiar with the story at all? Yep.

Someone to calculate it. An earth first person. Yep. Or, yeah, seemingly. Lay out. So they, we were texting about this morning. Yep. It's undecided. It was like a toss up.

But how is it a toss up? It's not a 50 to 50 toss up. It's like a five to five toss up. No, the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources voted. It was split along party lines so strict party lines um so the vote will go to the full senate this is a really tricky one man it is i agree lay it out cal just lay out the if saying who the not the ifs ands or buts the who where when tracy stone manning biden's pick his nominee for the head of BLM, Bureau of Land Management. She is, or was at National Wildlife Federation, I believe.

Is, I believe. Is that an is right now? Yeah. Okay. younger days and this apparently was on record uh throughout her career uh but now is much more much more on topic is uh university of montana both steve and i went to the university of montana for stints um she was involved with earth first uh and like a radical group of earth firsters but not as a high schooler, as a graduate student. As a graduate student.

So you're getting up into being like a sentient being. Hopefully. Right, your parents shouldn't be coming in. You're like verging on being a sentient being. Your parents shouldn't be coming in, waving a finger, and being like, now you know better. Yeah. Right?

So you're like, you're well into your 20s. Yes. And this, this group of earth firsters, there's a logging operation set, set to go over the hill in the clear water. They were protesting that. Within that group, they decided in order to protest this,

they were going to spike trees, which is the act of driving some sort of a rod into a tree that when a chainsaw bar and chain hit that, can have some catastrophic, destructive repercussions. Yeah. Potentially with chunks of metal

flying places. And, you know, it's a situation that can get somebody hurt. Yeah, well well i know that a i don't even know where i just read it in relation to this story that a mill at least one known mill worker was killed from a blade hitting a intentionally placed spike in in this situation or just in the history of trees no it was like giving a roundup on spiking. How it's generally used to be that like done in the way you're going to lay out,

people spike and they go like, hey, heads up, don't even bother, they're spiked. You wouldn't, not that you wouldn't, you could also spike and not tell anybody, which is, I'm not trying to make like one better than the other, but like worse than spiking is spiking and not telling anyone.

Yeah, it'd be like IED or a landmine would be like the contemporary equivalent, I would say. I don't think that's too much of a stretch. You're hiding something that's going to blow up in somebody's face. Yeah. Two sides of this from what I understand is Tracy Stone Manning has been called like part of the group, knew about the tree spiking, very involved. And then the other side would be that she just retyped a letter for the group and was in fact like not that involved but attached to it and she turned state's evidence on the the tree spikers uh the folks that actually committed the act of tree spiking and i think two of the guys went to prison um for pretty good stance yeah if i'm not mistaken it was uh they wrote a it's described um it's described in news articles as profanity-laced.

They wrote a profanity-laced letter to the Forest Service saying, hey, we spiked the trees. For some reason, I'll never understand this and only the people involved would know, she transcribed it. She typed a handwritten letter and turned the letter in. Later, her story was that, oh, I was notifying them. Like giving them a heads up. And then another way to look at it would be that you were complicit and it was part of the plan to do it and tell people.

And so you were part of it. You weren't like calling 911. And I think she's trying to recast it as more of like a 911 call rather than an all part of the plan call. Yeah. And I have like, I've transcribed plenty of stuff and I don't always do it without adding my own little, right? So it's like, you know, there's, there's parts of that that I just, it's hard to say, but, um, so there's this, we can say that she is an eco terrorist, um, or, uh, we can say she was just caught up in the wrong crowd. But like the overarching thing here is like, it did happen a long time ago. 30 years. But we know that no one cares.

There's no statute of limitations on anything anymore, man. Right. But she's had a long career and has pretty darn good marks as far as like her willingness to work with different groups and, you know, complete objectives on behalf of wild places throughout her career. Yeah. I don't buy the 30 yearyear thing because if someone made you could make an off-color joke 30 years ago and still lose your career so the fact you commit like uh like you are are are not involved in in an act of terrorism like i don't think it would term out i think it's tricky it's like i don't i tried to reading this morning i try to like get an opinion i can't make a good opinion i can't make a good opinion like i don't know uh it's very tricky for the biden administration because here's like oh it's

like uh it's radicalized domestic terrorism and you boys been talking about that a whole bunch about not liking that blaming me for it yeah uh yes and we have them in the room. Yeah. I mean, there are a bunch of different levels here. I mean, first of all, I'm in Montana. So let me just say, cause I think it's required. I hate BLM. Bureau of land management. Actually, I don't hate BLM, but I know that there, I mean, I've had some intense conversations about Bureau of land management, fishing out here. People have very strong feelings about them. Holy smokes. Oh, as far as like, if they're running their cattle out there. Yeah. Whether they're managing the public land well.

I'm not even going to get involved in that. This is not my region in the country. I'm familiar with that. Yeah. But man, some people hate them. You know, I'd say a couple things. One, you know, they're hiring a lot of radicals, like actual radicals, which freaks me out because I'm, one thing I'm not as radical, I believe in kind of incremental progress.

I mean, I believe in nature, which doesn't, there's nothing radical about nature. It's like. No, their ATF pick is a radical. Big time radical. That guy's a freaking nutcase. What's his name? Chipman? Chipman.

David Chipman. But in this case, I have a bunch of different feelings. One, I live in a region that is defined by logging, you know, lumber and paper mills. That's what, you know, that's what it is.

And I think the threat to forests is not Weyerhaeuser, Mead, IP. You know, it's not the traditional paper companies, the land management companies. It's the selling off of the physical assets of a lot of these companies to private equity firms like Beirut, the Yale endowment, Yale University endowment. And the problem is they whack the shit out of the land. And, you know, your traditional, like the Pingree family in Maine, which they own like a million acres of land they have for 150 years. Like they cut carefully because that's, you know, it's their land. But when you disaggregate this stuff, it creates incentives for people just to come in and just rape the land. And I'm against that. I mean, there's a way to manage a forest that's good for everybody.

And if that then gets chopped up into really small places and sold off, then- It's a huge problem. We don't get the forest back ever. Thank you. So there are real concerns about how to manage forests, especially around fires. It's like an endless conversation that I'm super interested in because I live in the middle of a forest, but not to be boring. So I think it's worth having a debate about how do we do this? Some of the radicals on this subject, I am kind of sympathetic with. Spiking trees is ridiculous. I agree. Because first of all, who does it hurt? The working man, the most despised suffering group in America. The people are dying of fentanyl

ODs, the people who live near me, all, you know, every man in my County has worked in the woods, as they say in Maine at one point or another. I had a chainsaw blow up on me two years ago. I over sharpened the chain, you know, those, I don't know if you ever sharpened a chainsaw chain, but the files are incredibly sharp and you can weaken the chain. If you're not paying attention, I didn't have my glasses and I was, and the thing i was making a cut at shoulder height and the chain broke and nothing happened actually it was totally fine but it scared the shit out of me so like the idea people can get really hurt but you run a chain saw so you had your your pro i didn't i didn't know i had my actually honestly i had those, whatever the stupid cheap ear protection that

Hickok 45 wears, you know, which is like the strap around it, because it does hurt your ears. Yep. And I didn't even have glasses on, because it was like, long story, but whatever. Flip flops? No, I didn't have flip flops. But it was, but it was just scary. Anyway, I'm very sympathetic, like spiking trees hurts exactly the wrong people.

If you're mad about what Weyerhaeuser's doing, take it up with the head of Weyerhaeuser. And going through. But not the man who's cutting the trees. Absolutely. And that's, but that's like one of the things that I battle with on this conversation. She didn't spike the trees. That, but it's also like the mark of a stupid kid where it's like, have you ever met a logger that is logging because they hate trees? I've been around a lot of loggers.

Me too. And they love trees. And they can talk about trees forever. Yeah. I mean, I have a guy who is one of my closest friends in Maine who was a logger all his life. But he can bore you for like three hours and did the other night just on hemlock. You know, the thing about hemlock is, I mean, and I'm not exaggerating. Like, they love trees and they know

everything about trees and now they have feller bunchers where i live so it's like you're sitting inside a cab you know cutting 10 trees at once there's no you know spiking is not a thing because skitters and chainsaws are gone actually they're not a part of industrial logging anymore but the point is hitting the guy on the ground who's making a wage, really? If you're doing that, you're exactly the kind of person I hate, which is a morally inflamed, out of touch, rich college kid with his head up his ass. Like that's the wrong way to approach whatever you think the problem is, is hurting the wage earner at the bottom of the food chain. I just hate that. But I do think that we should have a real conversation about forest management and we're

not because we're only about climate. Again, I'm not saying climate's not an issue I think it is but like we have actual solvable issues you know how do you manage a forest the beetle kill it killed me well but forest management and climate change are like very dovetailed they are they are but climate change like climate change is more real than the solutions to climate change. So my problem with climate change is not does it exist or whatever. I mean, it's hard to measure, but to some extent it's measurable. And as someone who loves to snowshoe, it's clearly something's going on where I snowshoe. Yeah.

I get it. But what do we do about it is the real question. And that's a highly politicized question, a nuanced question with a lot of unknowns. What's not unknown is why the water quality sucks or if Beirut is somehow selling off paper company land for condos on Moosehead. I think we can be against that. I guess that's my point. So let's start with the things that we can actually affect that have known solutions. Why not start there?

Like, how about no more throwing McDonald's bags out your window? How about when you come to this country, the first thing you learn, we're totally welcome to have you. I'm pro-immigrant personally. We don't litter here. And by the way, if you litter, we're going to cut your hands off because you're not allowed to do that. No littering. Like, no littering. Just no littering.

I imagine that would cut down on littering. Well, when I was a kid growing up inifornia littering was like the worst thing you could do yeah you you know the sexual ethics in the world i lived in were very loose i would say you could have sex with anybody but throwing a beer can out a window there was the crying indian remember that you guys are maybe too young no i remember that from being a kid totally yeah like littering was bad i I still feel that way. Don't wreck the land. You know, don't throw shit on the land.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. They recreated that scene in Wayne's World 2, Spencer, if that's closer to your age. But if I've got a 50-gallon drum of used motor oil, maybe don't pour it in the stream. Where I live, the paper companies, they send the crews in. You can't cut in the spring because it's too wet. You can't get the machines in there. So late spring, when it dries out a little bit, they'd send the crews in to cut.

And the mosquitoes are so intense. It's like Alaska in western Maine that they would take used motor oil and just pour it on the streams because mosquitoes can't lay their eggs in motor oil. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. Or another thing that people did where I live mosquitoes can't lay their eggs. Yeah, I remember that, yeah. Yeah. Or another thing that people did where I live is to rust-proof their cars, they'd drill holes around the top of the windows and they would pour used motor oil into the car frame,

into the body of the car, and then it would slowly drip out and that would keep your car from rusting. I don't remember that one. Like, that's bad. Wow. Like, let's stop that kind of thing before we start you know stopping my wood stove i don't know where they're at on it now but uh there was uh who's the guy who's the guy that wrote like the no not the corrections damn it a novelist i was reading his thing he had to think about climate change and he was looking at the insurmountability of of addressing the issue and he was like basically pessimistic about the

you know getting like india on board and china on board you think yeah the do it and he was like the thing we can do is tighten up our program in all the areas that we can affect. Right. Meaning habitat preservation, right? That's how I feel. Clean water, clean air. Exactly. This is going to go.

There's one thing we can do is batten down the hatches. That's how I feel. Exactly. And it was a thought-provoking set of ideas. Kind of like, but I said, like I said, pessimistic or fatalistic, which is where I usually sit because on that one, I just look and be like, oh, but now globally? Like, how? Climate change. Like, to get the developing world on board?

It just seems so hard to do, man. Of course. to do, man. That's what some people say. Like if it, it'll be, it'll wind up needing to be, it's going to need to be a technological solution because it's not going to be that, that everyone, that, that globally, everyone's going to have to revisit mass imperialism to get everybody on one program. And it's just like. Carbon emissions are driven by industrial production and that's not what we do anymore. We let other countries do that. Exactly.

So the countries that – and, I mean, over time, the most powerful country in the world is the industrial power. The country that makes the most shit has the most power. It was true of the UK. It was true of the US. It's becoming true of China. So that's very obvious when you look over the scope of 100 years. So, like, why would China say, well, we're just going to-industrialize right as we're taking over the world? Probably not going to happen. Same with India, same with Africa. You know, if you're, if you're cooking dinner

over cow pies, it's kind of cool to have bottled LP gas. Like, why wouldn't you want that? And they do. And I understand that. So I don't know, you need to kind of keep that in mind that we're not going to stop carbon emissions in a meaningful way until we can stop the industrialized, the emerging industrialized powers from building coal plants. And we can't because coal is just cheaper. How many coal plants is China built this year? I'm not attacking China. I get it. That's their national interest.

But we need to be honest about it. Oh, we would have to ignore our history here in the United States in order to properly attack. But we're not order to properly attack. But we're not going to be on it. But let me just say this is one thing I am an expert on. I'm not an expert on global climate change. I spent a lot of time reading about it, but I'm not hardly an expert. Obviously, I'm not a scientist.

I'm an expert on politics. I think I can say that conclusively. And whenever politicians of either party enter into a political debate, the solutions will be political. And by political, I mean they'll be designed to enhance the power of the people designing the solutions sorry that that's what it is that's what politics is how do i get good for them and their allies yeah exactly how do i empower myself and disempower you and to pretend that because we call something science that the rules of politics which are fundamental laws that are unchanging don't apply you're lying're lying. And it's also true for COVID.

It doesn't mean COVID is not real. It doesn't mean we shouldn't take precautions against it or try and fight it or whatever. We should do all kinds of things. But the second politicians enter into the equation, their overriding concern is how will these solutions make me more powerful? And that's just always true. It doesn't matter what the topic is. And for the rest of us to pretend it's not because someone yelled science in a crowded theater, we're lying to ourselves and we're not going to get to the wisest answer if we pretend that politicians aren't always acting to make themselves more powerful and us less powerful because they are always. That's true.

Bank account. Can I get an amen? Yeah, I believe you. Ladies and gentlemen, Tucker Carlson. Spence, what do you need to plug? I got a note from Corinne. Corinne wrote me a note through my computer. One last thing. We set up an email address

called trivia at themeteater.com. So you're not going to wait to see how it went. That's what I want. Send an email there. Tell me what you liked. Tell me what you didn't like. Tell me if there's something you think I got wrong. But, most of all, i want you to write in with your own questions that you want to stump steve and the crew with and if we use your question i'll give you a shout out on the podcast and do you want to have do you want to invite their feedback about whether you should

be given more time and more latitude to pursue your trivia dream. Yes, I want you to convince Steve that this is a good idea. I can't believe I lost to a clerical error. Of my own. I never finished explaining what you guys were fighting about. Oh, last night? Yeah, so they got in a real bad fight. Real bad. It was hard to track.

It was like Brody was more pointing out that you could now use a muzzleloader in Flintlock. Katie was so fed up she just almost left. Cal, yeah. We trapped Danny in between us. She couldn't leave anyway. My wife wanted to go home. She was so irritated.

We had a debate last night. In one sense, who was on what side? It wasn't clear it became that um it turned into this is this is what they got so mad about it turned into would having a flintlock season at that time contribute to pushing more elk off public land onto private and would they then return i think that's what you guys were fighting about we got into that for sure yeah and cal at one point um tried to put brody in his place cal saying i wouldn't come and tell you about wolves in colorado don't tell me about elk in Montana. That was one of the lower points.

That was the point at which I woke up to this morning being like, God, I'm an asshole. Can I just ask a dumb question? By flintlock, is it rifle barrel or musket? It's rifle barrel. Primitive, like, traditional, not in the new inline kind.

But the lock is traditional, but the barrel is. It's a rifle. Okay, so you can actually kill elk with that. Oh, for sure. Yeah, and you can't use a telescope. You can't use a scope. Yeah.

But the reason, here's why they were so testy about it. I don't want to spend a ton of time. They were so testy about it because it's a part of a longer thing. There's a conversation about, are we pushing elk too hard too long? Yeah, that's a fair, I think it's a real- And so it was like, this was like a proxy battle. You had like the Soviet Union in America, right? Which is like, that was that. And then this was a flare up in Laos, you know, about the flintlocks.

Sure. Because you guys were fighting about, are we pushing elk too hard? Yep. And then, but it took the form of like yet another example of- We don't even need to get in who fell on what side. Things that we do on behalf of the word opportunity. Like everything's good if we provide more opportunity. Yeah.

And at a point it might be that you just, you can't kill elk seven months out of the year. And meanwhile, while folks at the dinner table are getting uncomfortable and would like it to end, Steve is scoring it like a boxing match. That's a great point, Cal. Brody. And then Brody would take his turn. He said, oh, well said, Brody. Cal, what do you got?

But does anyone think it's kind of, I mean, to shoot an elk with a flintlock does seem like Kind of sporting That's the problem with the end of the argument Is like what do you got to get flintlock I'm like nothing if it goes into effect I will get one and kill an elk with it But what I'm saying is In the end it was a pointless argument What's the range for effective range for a flintlock

100 yards Under 100 We need to put it because Seth grew up in the first state to ever have a flintlock deer season. Yep. Pennsylvania. If you want to learn

all about this, watch Meteor on Netflix coming up September. We've got our flintlock episode. It's crazier because they're hunting whitetails that go insane

after they've been hunted with rifles for a couple weeks. Yeah, it's tough. Did you ever take one with a flintlock? Yeah, several. Wow.

Yep. It was the last season of the year, so it was like your last chance to get a deer for the year. Did you stand or were you stalking them? A lot of deer drives. Oh, I forgot they do that. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, man. Yeah. We shot an episode all about it. I haven't seen it. I've never done that. Is it fun? We haven't released it yet. Yeah.

And I'll just tell you right now. Well, no, I'm going to be like Spencer. You have to watch it. Yeah, you got to go to TikTok to find out how it happened. All right, everybody. Tucker, thanks so much for coming out. It's fun to talk. I can't believe this is what you guys do for a living.

I really envy you. Oh, yeah. We only get to do it once a week. If your debate is about flintlock elk hunting, like you've already won. I don't know what you get paid, but you win. Well, we're going up to the fish shack in Alaska starting tomorrow. Bright and early tomorrow morning. And, you know,

the rule up there is no politics over dinner either. Good. I like that rule. It is now, I'm just saying. I like that rule.

Let's stick with it. But I'm bringing my three kids too so that would violate the other rule about not politicizing children. That's true. It's all about

our treble hook snagging. You know what? I like those. In Saltwater, up there. Oh, so you've got a position on that. Of course you do. You're Steve Rinaldo. I don't have a position on it,

but you are allowed, like, put that down on a future talking point, Corinne. Future, like, Saltwater snagging. Okay or not? It's not. Sorry, it's not. And I don't care if you have a native exemption. It's not. Sorry, it's not. And I don't care if you have a native exemption, it's not. And put this question in there.

Why is it so much easier to land a salmon with a fly rod? Because it's hooked in the mouth. Because the fly's in their mouth. Because they're not hooked in the anapose fin. No, that's totally true. Yeah. Actually, I like, my son's always on me for foul hooking fish on dry flies. Your resectors aren't fast enough, whatever.

But I always argue it's actually more impressive to land a foul hooked fish. Like in the dorsal fin? Yeah. They put up a good tussle. Oh my gosh. When he's out there and you can feel his tail moving? Yeah. We say they fight harder when you hook them in the motor.

That's true. That's true. All right, everybody. Thanks for joining. Thanks for supporting the book, Soup. That's true. That's true. All right, everybody. Thanks for joining. Thanks for supporting the book, Soup. Really appreciate it. Take care. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that

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