The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 309: Battered and Fried

Episode Date: January 17, 2022

Steven Rinella talks with Jay Siemens, Mandy Uhrich, Seth Morris, and Chester Floyd.Topics discussed: Steve not being about batter; where Seth's side hustle ends and his little side hustle begins; how the boys need a walleye tournament boat; a correction on the use of tampons to treat gunshot wounds; the real fear of pooping one's own pants; memorials to extinct birds; Utah nixes trail cams and thermal night vision optics; putting the kibosh on drone use for hunting purposes; North Dakota underwater; how spearing is true fishing; drilling the biggest ever ice hole; hooks vs. no hooks on decoys; live scoping, dark housing, and where you can and can't spear; Seth's purity vs. the hot prickly feeling of jealousy; what happens to the psychology of an angler when technology is involved?; The Canadian Angle on MeatEater's Youtube Channel; and more.Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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First Light, go farther, stay longer. Hey everyone, you might notice a slight tonal difference in what's being recorded right now. Perhaps as though it's being recorded on a different device than normal. Well, it is. That's because what I'm going to say right now is so important, we wanted to stand out. And Phil the Engineer came up with this brilliant idea to do it on a phone here's the message season 10 part 2 of our Netflix show meat eater is upon us drops February 2nd on Netflix so get ready to binge pull up the couch to the old tube get your pins dialed cock your spear guns whatever you got to do to feel prepped. February 2nd, hot episodes of Meat Eater on Netflix. Now, our regularly scheduled podcast coming to you from the frigid as hell North Dakota.

All right, Jay Siemens, as a way of introduction, tell us what you got going on in that bucket next to you. I'm sitting beside a bucket. Which you don't know what, because you live in Canada, you don't know what that thing is called. Well, you told me it's called a lug, but we kind of call everything totes. Any sort of plastic container is a tote. No, a tote is a bag.

Well. Plastic container is not. All right, we're calling it a lug. It's a tote or a bag. Well. Plastic container is not. All right. We're calling it a lug. It's a tote or a lug. And we currently have a northern pike speared by Steve, a white bass caught by myself, a perch caught by Mandy, and the walleyes, I think kind of a group effort. But we're doing a little catch and cook shore lunch later today. So I'm pretty excited about that.

That northern, when he was frozen, he didn't give off his Northern smell. No, but now when they thought that like the slime, it's, it's amplified. It's ideal to not let the fish freeze rock solid between, you know,

catching them and cleaning them. But we, we let that happen. So, but when it's negative 50 with wind chill it's kind of hard to do that yeah it's hard to avoid they freeze like from the shack the truck oh yeah introduce yourself a little more jay uh if you want if you want you can do your like your plug my plug all right well you can do like you damn sure better plug canadian. Yep. Okay. Plug that.

You plug like another thing or two maybe, but then mainly the fish fry. Okay. Yep. And then plug the battery you gave me. Perfect. Then you'd be all taken care of. There you go. Then I'm good.

I don't need to talk for the rest of the podcast. Yeah. My name is Jay Siemens. I'm an ex-fishing guide in Canadaographer and, uh, I got a series on the mediator YouTube channel called the Canadian angle, kind of a, uh, you know, angle being a videographer, but angle angling fishing. It's playing words.

Yeah. There you go. Chester hadn't picked up on that. I'm sure. What the hell? So yeah, season, uh, season two just started. Chester's like, oh. It all makes sense. Yeah,

season two just started dropping and it's an ice fishing season. Fits into what we're doing right now. But yeah, I make YouTube videos and got a little side hustle with my buddy Josh and we make a fish batter called Catch and Cook.

So it's... Can Americans buy it? We can buy it online, catchandcook.net. We're slowly getting to the American retail space, but I mean, I'm always eating fish, so it's like, you know what, let's make something of our own. So we got spices to compete with Meat Eater.

We got some batter and... Oh, batter? Some folding fillet knives, so... I'm not a batter guy. Batter, well, I mean, batter coating. I mean, we got the beer batter. This is like more of just a flour-based coating. Yeah, yeah, coating, breading.

Flour or corn? There's flour with some cornmeal and some other secret ingredients in there. And I gifted Steve. Steve was eyeing up some of my gear, and I got a little, it's called a power box, and it's a lithium battery in like a little hard-sided case. should know about this yeah it's great for camping i got nothing to gain here either no i mean i gained that battery you gained a free battery box um yeah it's got a couple usbs a cigarette lighter i'm always filming ice fishing camping whatever right so you know charge your phone 20 times off at once but dakota lithium power box and uh i'm a battery guy yeah little

plastic box you are a big battery guy. I notice you like plugging stuff in and unplugging it. My fear is going fishing or showing up at a shoot and my battery's being dead or your LiveScope battery dying halfway through your day.

If you're an avid angler, you kind of got to be a battery person. Yeah, a lot of batteries going on. Especially ice fishing, there's a lot of batteries going on. A lot of trying to keep batteries alive in the cold. And then if you're fishing out of a boat, open water, a lot of batteries going on.

Trying to keep all your stuff around. That's made right in North Dakota? Not made, but they're companies based out of North Dakota, yeah. Dakota Lithium, cool name. Yeah. You can start a rock band called Dakota Lithium. We're going to get back to Seth big time because he's got a lot of boat stuff we've got to talk about A lot of boat dealings

I might be selling Seth my boat actually We're doing some dealings off Off air Off air dealings We'll roll into the boat talk And then we've got to talk about this little project we've got called Seth's Side Hustle But this is going to get me in a lot of trouble with Tracy because she doesn't like it when we preview to start promoting things that don't yet exist. Then wind up, for some reason, being impossible to do.

But I just can't see an obstacle. I can't foresee this being impossible. Seth's Little Hustle. Yeah. It's going to be called. It'll be a drop down. If you go to TheMeteor.com, you'll find a little drop down that says Seth's Little Hustle. Yeah. It's going to be called. It'll be a drop down. If you go to the meteor.com, you'll find a little drop down that says Sass Little Hustle. Yep.

Mandy, introduce yourself. Whatever aspects of yourself, because there's sort of like you have a dual existence. I do. Can you talk about both the dual? Yeah, I can. So by day, for the last 21 years, I am a biologist. I've worked for the state of Minnesota in multiple different divisions and capacities. I love my job. When I'm not at that job, I do wear multiple hats. I'm an avid angler. I'm also a tournament angler. So I fish year round. I fish about 30 derbies a year, multiple species. I ice angle, I guide, I co-host a weekly radio show. I've had a co-host a TV show for the last seven years.

And I donate about 200 hours a year to nonprofits and vets groups. Oh, really? Yeah. Tell me about your last name, Urick? Urick. Yeah. Okay. I had, I want people to know I have nothing to gain in this transaction. Yeah.

I'm about ready to lay out. Nothing to gain. I had a Jackson kayak, big tuna. Yes. A tandem sit on top fishing kayak for rough ass water. And we had caught a lot of fish out of this thing yes i got to where i was i got to living in an area where i just wasn't using it as much because just local circumstances and uh which just wasn't applicable to where i was and uh

gave it to Seth to use. And you used it a couple times. No, I used it a lot. You used it a lot. Yeah. But then you went on to bigger. Then you got other boats and houses. I used that a lot. Kelsey and I would use it floating several rivers around Montana,

but it's not like a great river. No, it's an open water boat. It's an open water boat. So we ended up just getting an old town canoe, montana but it's not like a great river no it's open water it's an open water boat so we we ended up just getting an old town canoe and then um we didn't need the sweet boat the kayak anymore it's got like chairs in it it's got a perforated little live well it's not aerated but you can put fish in there and just as you move around it circulates water keeps them alive real good yeah i used to use that thing all the time it works great probably not tournament ready that

live well no not tournament ready no it live well. No, not tournament ready. It's got an anchor system that I personally rigged up. Sweet anchor system. It's got everything. You go look for yourself what a Jackson Kayak Big Tuna is worth. I don't know what the hell they're worth. They're worth a lot of money. It's like two grand, I think.

Ridge Pounder, we kind of peer pressured Ridge Pounder into buying it. Yep. For, I don't want to get into sums, but for a fraction of its value. Because he had some cockamamie plan by which he was going to come retrieve it. Yep. And bring it back to California with him so he could become a surf perch master. Sorry, it's in Bozeman or where is it it's in Bozeman yeah it's it yeah it's at my house in Three Forks

so now the where things stand now I was telling Christy our day we were sitting in the shanty um I won off this deal because even though I gave it to Seth once Seth sold it toris i kept half that money just got the felt that that was fair and i don't know if you remember but you gave me that kayak because i helped you hang that big ass mirror in your house as soon as you walk in your door yeah you got he got that too so i got my mirror hung up so here's how i won I got my mirror hung up. So here's how I won.

I got my mirror hung up. I got half the very, very modest sale price. Yep. Seth got half the modest sale price, but now he's getting bones. He's had to move it around a whole bunch. But here's the big winner in this whole thing right now as stands. This dirt myth is is gonna come take it

not pay anybody anything and he's gonna come take it and house it until ridge comes and yeah he's gonna be the caretaker of it so we're all of us all involved parties we're in a shanty the other day and i was telling chris just like you can't have a shanty full of whiners you can't have a shanty full of winners someone's got to lose and he's the loser he's losing he bought it but he can't get it yep so the reason i'm bringing this up to listeners is if someone you have to come get it out of seth's yard yeah if it works out come get it in my yard how what do they have let's make it a deal they got to give you and then you're gonna split the money with ridge or no yeah you'd split it with him you wouldn't just keep the money no they're like bailing ridge out yeah we're basically doing all this work for chris and he's not doing shit so you come and give you the listener yeah

send in uh you know where they should send the listener. Send in a... You know where they should send it? Because you're in there anyway. Where do you want the emails to go? Info at SethSideHustle.com No, because this has nothing to do with Seth Side Hustle. No, this is Seth. This is definitely a side hustle.

The other project is Seth's Little Hustle. This is Seth's Little Side Hustle. Yeah. Name a price and name how they're supposed to get a hold of you um that should they dm you yeah i probably just a dm to my instagram tell them what it is at signs underscore west you know um so here's social media coming in again yep uh send me a dm and what was i forget the price we were we doesn't matter just just throw one out there yeah thousand bucks okay thousand bucks it that's like it's mint condition yeah mint condition

big tuna jackson kayak phenomenal boat in seth's yard thousand bucks here's what happens with that thousand bucks rich pounder gets his money back. Then Seth decides whether he just hoards the rest for himself or splits the profits with him. It's up to Seth. Splits the profits with Chris? No, I'm keeping it.

You're just giving his money back. You're going to refund it. Yeah, I'll refund his money. But then you're keeping it. But yeah, the rest I'm keeping because that's that's chris's that's what chris owes me for storage moving for moving it and for doing this whole transaction okay that's fair dm big tina here's the thing you got to come pick some bitch up though we're not like that's not involved that would be like it's in the yard come get it yep and you can keep my sweet anchor yep it's a fishy. That's what it'd be like. It's in the yard. Come get it. Yep. And you can keep my sweet anchor. Yep.

It's a fishy boat. It's seen a lot of fish. Yeah. I've fished it. All my kids have fished it. My ma's fished it. A lot of people fish that boat. It's like DOS boat.

I was one time out in the middle of Canyon Ferry. There was a bunch of walleye boats out there. I was like, well, the bite must be on out there. I didn't have my boat that I have now. So Kelsey and I paddled out there. We didn't catch any walleye. Don't tell them that. Say like we slew. We outfished all the walleye boats.

Say something like that. We outfished all the damn boat. Well, it's not the boat's problem. He outfished all the big walleye boats. What I'm saying is the boat is capable to get out there with all the big walleye water i just wanted to be like a different like the way the story was going i was expecting to be that you slayed well we can say that yeah okay lay out the other boat issue you guys got but let me let me tee it up okay tee it up we've talked

extensively over the last year about how uh seth and and chester the midwester are gonna go into the walleye tournament yes and we're like sponsoring the walleye they're making a show about them we're gonna make a show about them. Just winning. Just winning every tournament. So doing the Montana leg of the walleye tour. Correct? It's the Montana. It's like the Montana circuit.

Montana walleyes. Montana walleyes unlimited. Okay. Puts it on. Doing the Montana, competing in the Montana circuit. After you do that weigh-in, are you allowed to keep those fish and eat them, or do you have to go dump them back in the lake? You got to release them.

Well, this year it's pictured and released. Huh. Yeah. Okay. Mildly less enthusiastic about this whole thing, but... What do you mean? It's fine. I just thought you were going to be out there.

I thought you were going to have a big old, one of like jay's fish fry batter catch and cook big like you know race cars have like tide or whatever yeah oh yeah how much to wrap your boat i thought your boat's gonna be wrapped you know maybe catch and cook is gonna sponsor you guys well you can't because they're gonna let them all go well they'll probably kill one accidentally along the way oh we can pre-fish yeah we keep a couple. Okay, let us know what a wrap is. We might not even need a boat sponsorship. We're just going to buy you a boat.

Catch and cook wrap. There we go. Those little racing jackets and stuff to say catch and cook on. It's going to be sweet. That would be sweet. It's going to be good for Jay. So you're going to do this thing. We're going to make a show.

We're going to make a YouTube series, right? Help me out. Yeah. Pick it up. Sell me out. Don't end it like you did the kayak story. Yeah, so it's four stops. Unfortunately, one of them is on the day I get married this year. So you're going to have to leave the wedding early. Well, we're only doing three of the four derbies,

which you only need to do three of the four to win Angler of the Year. Yeah, that's what you guys are going to do. Yep. So, how did it wind up being that you got scheduled to get married? Just bad coincidence. It's too late to move the wedding? Yeah. Do you know, I'm going to be the preacher at Seth's wedding.

Can I talk about that? Yeah, go for it. Yeah, I'm going to be the preacher at Seth's wedding. Can I talk about that? Yeah, go for it. Yeah, I'm going to be the preacher at Seth's wedding. What's the date for that? June 25th. Do you have to do an online certification? I got to look into that. I might check it right now, but.

You still got to check it right now. Cost $15 and you're ready to go? Back to the walleye tour. June 25th. June 25th. So, I got a 16 and a half foot. It's a sweet boat, Sylvan. But if anybody is familiar with Fort Peck.

Is that one of the locations? One of the locations that I'm really excited about. Stop number one. It's big lake. And Seth and I could be out there in my little 16 and a half footer. And I have a 16 and a half foot crest liner that is not capable. Yeah, you guys are boat poor. We're underboated. You're ambition rich, yet boat poor.

The wind could come up and we could be in trouble. It'd be like the Edwin Fitzgerald. Yeah. The legend lives on. There'd be a song written about us. Lake Michiganams like young man's dreams yeah it's islands and bays are for sportsmen yeah uh these boys need a boat we need a boat if i owned a boat company pert just pert means just me speaking if i owned a boat company and i was like and i was sitting there with my marketing budget shit right and i was like what am i gonna do this year for my

marketing budget and i'm like on instagram checking out like oh here's a fishing influencer whatever and i caught wind of the fact that seth and chester are doing a meat eater youtube series about their quest to become angler of the year yep high production value and the boat was going to be like the star like you want to talk about impressions the boat's like the main thing you want to talk about impressions i'm just saying if i owned a boat company i would be hitting seth's dm or go to what's yours musky chat go to musky chat or just contact at the meat eater.com and i would be like dropping a lot i would be calling people how do they put it jay you had to happen to you one time because of boat shortages oh yeah they i'm trying to think what the well just they

they shuffle yeah things move around shuffle parties jay's watching his ass right now because he doesn't want jason want to get implicated in any of this i would be sitting there looking and i'd be like man i'm gonna get those boys a walleye boat. That's right. Even though you got to understand it's going to be raft with catch and cook. I'm a big Alumacraft guy. Mandy's a Lund girl, so we both kind of, I mean, I think it's, you got to be fishing in Alumacraft, but. Hey, I like, I don't discriminate.

At this point, beggars can't be choosers. Yeah. They need that boat. Both are great boat companies. A boat, a walleye boat company needs to come in and help these boys out so they can get out there and not be out in them little boats of theirs. Now, what if some walleye boat company came and said, you can use this boat for that, but then you got to give it back? That'd be fine.

I mean, yeah. Oh, really? I mean, it's better. Yeah. Let's see. It's better than nothing. But if we could be, you know be going to the Elite Series best. No, I'm just kidding.

Let me lay out another thing. Let me lay out another thing for you. What I think would have to happen, just so you know, what I think would have to happen is I think we would have to do it like this. They'd probably have to give the boat to Meat Eater. Yes. But it'd be like your guy's boat to use and take care of yes and i would make it be that people had to come ask you permission to use

it yes but in the future how would you guys divide the boat up would you fight over it yeah would you wrestle over it well like 98 of the time when we're fishing we're together so you don't so i don't foresee it being a big issue. You feel that you two could effectively co-own a boat. Yeah. That's tough. I'm pretty easygoing. Yeah, same.

I'd let Seth use it whenever. We share, we've, yeah. You know where you get into problems when you co-own stuff? And I've never had, because I co-own the fish shack. We never had the issue. Yeah. Someone says, I think we're due for a new boat and we got we're gonna buy a new boat and someone says like i don't wanna do that yeah you know we've never had that problem we've always

unanimously agreed on like priorities but you could have a situation where one he's like i want to redo the electronics package everyone's like man i can't afford that i want to do that yeah so they're like well i'm going to go do it anyway and then you then now you have bitterness yeah i could see this boat really ripping you two apart no no i can't if it ever came to that i'd be like you know what seth you can have that boat oh really okay oh yeah have you have you guys good no good sorry have you guys fish tournaments before is this going to be like no first tournaments they go right into the full tour? No, but you know what's really cute?

We fished out when other people were fishing. This is the cutest thing in the world. What? It's the cutest thing in the world. There was a tournament going on, and they went and fished together that day. Just to see how they could, you weighed your own fish that day, and saw you would have stacked up if you paid the entry? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, well, we fished, and then we went and looked at the board. Yeah. And we would have done very well. Really? Yeah. Yeah. So if you have a boat company and you want to get on board with some winners and get some high-profile exposure,

these boys need a walleye boat. Here's another thing. This is green lit, dude. This is happening. I was in on the meeting. Any of the winnings, we're not taking that and putting it in our pocket, which would be nice. You're putting it up your nose. We're actually.

That was a joke, Chester. We're actually. was a joke we're actually uh oh my gosh we're not doing that definitely not doing that steve we're gonna put it back towards um like access like a boat ramp improvements um fish cleaning station on however seth and i you know once we hash it out some project that's related to the bodies of water where you guys right yep so some project related to access enhancement ramp improvements like fish clean whatever whatever you know whatever whatever the state needs whatever whoever needs we had a we had a guy right into us saying that there, he, it's a guy who owns a company that makes those like prefab concrete outhouses. Because we talked about like if a boat ramp needs a shitter or something, it'd be like something we'd invest in.

That guy was like, let me know. We'd be sponsored by Catch and Cook and. Boat ramp shit. So now you lost half the wrap. Yeah. The port side is going to be Catch and Cook. The other side is going to be Boat Ramp Shitters. I'll take what I can get.

Let me review this for boat manufacturers. Here's what you're getting. Massive impressions when the show comes out. Yep. You're helping access access if they win some some loot you get that you're tied to that generous gesture because they're not pocketing any of the loot yep um i can tell you one day you can use the boat if you want you can just borrow it back on seth wedding day he's not gonna be using it yep so you could do a walleye trip

boat's already up in montana do a walleye trip 25th of june no problems no conflicts um they can come fish with us anytime oh i'll throw this in that's priceless i'll throw this in here's another thing this is it has a lot of value we will talk about that boat on this show 10 times oh wow and enormous value on my personal instagram how many times that's in my whole instagram will just be around that boat okay i'm just i'm just lending you my boat to install that whistle i can't do i'm just lending you my boat i want phil to install that astonishment whistle we will spend so much time on that boat you know like when you're oh yeah

we'd probably get like a wi-fi hot spot on that boat and just work on the boat i spend a certain amount of time in my boat that's not as much as i like because of windy days i can't get out there on windy days man i think the boat manufacturers are gonna be beating your door down dude i think we're just gonna cut this out i'm just giving you my boat see that's how that's how compelling this whole thing is yeah no i see i see the value like we're gonna sell a lot of catching cookers there you go okay you ready to move on that that covers boat news now people are probably so excited about the walleye boat, they forgot about the big tuna kayak, but remember. Yep. Vaccinating zoo animals.

Wow. This has been going on for quite a while, but I want to cover it. I didn't know that was a thing. You'd like the transition there? That was smooth. The hard transition. Speaking of walleye boats. Speaking of walleye boats, vaccinating zoo animals. This caught my eye.

There was a picture where they're fixing to vaccinate some stuff for COVID. I was reading an article where the Phoenix, Arizona Zoo is the latest to vaccinate animals that are likely to get COVID. Because of close contact with humans. I didn't know this. Nebraska's Lincoln Children's Zoo, they lost three snow leopards to COVID. Really? Yeah.

So they worked up, it was this outfit that worked up, this Zotus. Zotus, a global animal health company based in New Jersey, worked up some kind of vaccine, donated doses for the zoos. They got authorized emergency use for endangered species. So they've been vaccinating Sumatran tigers jaguars african lions hitting them with a dart gun huh for those unvaccinated folks that better watch out sometimes people the government's

just going to come over yeah that's a good conspiracy to start because i worked up another conspiracy i'm going to start like this kind of it's a fun one to start because i worked up another conspiracy i'm gonna start like this kind of it's a fun one to start about how to stay warm in cold weather um like a physiology thing and then we could work one up that we heard like all those black helicopters that were going to do like you know new world order they're now just using them to vax people who don't who won't get vaxed with trank darts that's what happened to chester's cousin yeah right chester yeah um they've been did i say african lions with it with a dart um bornean orangutans emperor tamarins they're hitting the fruit bats that seems that makes

sense to me gypsum fruit bats, armadillos, sloths. That must be a pretty tiny dose in a bat. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it'd be interesting who calculates that out. At that zoo, the Phoenix, Arizona Zoo, they've needled 75 animals. I'm going to put this on my Instagram, a picture of a jaguar they're doing and i had the comment on that as what i'm gonna put on instagram is a comment about i could picture it causing creating some real soul searching at pita people for the ethical treatment of animals

they probably will have to have a meeting about whether they like vehemently oppose or vehemently support yeah because they're down on zoos anyway they're down on pet ownership right so how do they feel like this animal has no say like they don't like um sexual mutilation of animals when you when you cut their nuts off and stuff maybe they do i don't know but um yeah like are they how do you spend that in that org good good question like are they like pissed or do they like it because you one could argue one could say hey man it's not the jaguar's fault that he's in the zoo that sucks for him they shouldn't be able to do that. But since he is there, the least you can do is keep him from dying, catching COVID.

Like, that's an approach. Or it'd be, the other approach would be, this is yet another example of us forcing our will on animals without their consent. Yeah, they'll have some internal meetings about that. I feel like they should dial me in for those meetings. I'd be like, listen, man, I know you and I got our differences, but I'm very interested in this one. And we should I'd like to help hash this one out.

Yeah. That's crazy. After we did our episode, which one of you guys, I can never remember who was on these shows were you guys there for Doug and Heffelfinger no we were there with no the podcast

it was called talking about things that are not sexy to talk about yeah no that episode that was Spencer and who else was there I don't know not us not us well in the episode talking about things that are not sexy to talk about, I talked about Doug sending me mean text messages

and trying to start a fight with me over text. And Doug said he wasn't trying to be mean. It's just his text messages sometimes seem mean. And he says he needs to be better about moderating his tone on text messages. Emojis help. Yeah, but I refuse. To use emojis?

There's no way in the world. Didn't you say thumbs up? One time. You didn't care or you were pissed off? No, I tried the thumbs up one time and felt so bad I could barely sleep that night. I will not. When I text, I don't use abbreviations.

I spell everything out. I punctuate everything. Basically, if you imagine, my texts are the opposite of Trump's tweets. Everything is perfect in my text messages. I try to make it perfect in my text messages. I don't like everything is like perfect in my text message. I try to make it perfect in my text messages. I don't use emojis. I don't like when I get them, but my daughter knows I hate emojis.

So she'll now and then get on her mom's phone and just send me like five page streams of, uh, of emojis. Um, you got it. I mean, let me tell you,

go ahead. No, like voice. You seem like the type of guy that do voice messages busy guy no i never get your tone across you don't do that either i don't do that because i could i'm afraid there'd be a typo in it no no no but like straight straight voice like not even not even voice the text just like voice memos no i don't do those don't do that no no but you know what's funny about um here's another story about that okay put this one on

hold about doug i'm gonna tell another doug story we laughed for like two years about this because doug was doing there's some argument with doug duran i can't remember what it was and doug was doing like talking into the text and doug was trying to settle a disagreement with someone saying that he would arm wrestle them for it but the way his voicing put down is that he was going to farm wrestle them for it and we had a lot of laughs about what exactly farm wrestling dug and like what farm wrestling means and we came up with a lot a lot of definitions about what a farm wrestling match might look like with doug like never go to doug's for farm wrestling um there's an app

folks folks you know about this it's called our fam okay our family wizard communication app a guy wrote in i deal with this problem of tonality in text messages. I deal with this problem all the time in the context of parents who can't seem to communicate nicely with one another. This is divorced parents in dealing about their kids. So divorced parents taking care of kids.

I deal with this problem all the time in the context of parents who can't seem to communicate nicely with one another and the court will often have them use the Our Family Wizard communication app with the tone meter feature turned on. OurFamilyWizard.com slash knowledge dash center slash tips dash tricks slash parents dash website slash tone meter. It'll be in the notes. You got that written down? Yeah, that was easy. college-center-tips-tricks-parents-website-tonemeter. It'll be in the notes. You got that written down? Yeah, that was easy.

And you can get that app. Analyze your tone with ToneMeter. They make suggestions about how to make it seem nicer. Watch this transition. Correction about gunshot wounds and tampons okay we're talking about we covered pretty heavily uh people writing in about plugging up gunshot wounds of tampons apparently in the medical community this is frowned upon first responders military people are implored not to do this this fellow that wrote in goes it is worrying that more people are talking about the improper

in this case use of a tampon to control massive bleeding it can be both dangerous due to debris for getting debris further into the wounds but in a pre-hospital environment, it could be fatal. Tampons are not sterile. How is that true? Tampons are not sterile, and an article in the Emergency Medicine Journal highlights that when it comes to life-threatening bleeding, a tampon cannot provide the surface area or the pressure required to control massive bleeding.

Tampons absorb blood. They do not provide any hemostatic assistance. The average tampon can absorb 9 milliliters of blood or about 2 teaspoons. Life-threatening bleeding occurs when there is a greater than 1,500 milliliters of blood. Once it absorbs its max, wouldn't it just still keep that hole plugged or no? Apparently not.

So just... A tourniquet or hemostatic dressing is preferred to control massive bleeding. Regular gauze may be used, but it needs to be in sufficient amount. The American College of Surgeons and Stop the Bleed Program recommends when you do not have hemostatic dressing, sterile dressings, or a tourniquet, use clothing to pack a wound shirt pants even if it's covered in body sweat it's more likely to provide hemorrhage control than a tampon huh what brought this up is we were decorating the family christmas tree this year and our kids were asking about these little snowman ornaments that my wife had.

And they were like wondering what it was. And I'd never seen them before, but they're like little snowmans made out of tampons as a Christmas ornament. What? And then somehow it came up. Yeah. My uncle one time had a boat ramp

slice his leg real bad on the hitch. Walking around the back of the truck? Yep. That's deadly. It's deadly to walk around the back of a truck. Used a maxi pad on the cut and still went fishing. And he lived? Yeah, he's still living.

Whoever rode in, put that in your pipe and smoke it. Chester's uncle's alive and well. Do we need to get to the root, though? Where did he get the maxi pad from? Why did he have this maxi pad? Where did this come from? Is this part of his emergency kit that he keeps with him? No, he just got to digging around in the glove box.

Digging around in the truck, and I'm sure it was his wife's. I didn't ask him. I'd be like, Uncle Pete. Let's get Uncle Pete on the show. We'll do a whole episode about this. A guy wrote in. See, he made up this word. But we were talking about, somehow this came up on an episode a long time ago,

of a guy that wrote in that, oh, you those boys remember when uh luke combs was on the show and those guys were talking about some friend of theirs that when he uses the restroom he needs to take all of his clothes off yeah it's just like it's like this is a real thing it's like a psychological disorder yeah i know someone like that yeah this guy came up with a name called feces pantophobia well he made the word up but he said it's like it's an actual thing it's like a this like intense fear of pooping on your pants like contact with feces and sufferers sufferers of which he is one they take they undress and you say when he's pooping out in the woods it's like he has

still undress i have worries about in the woods when you're wearing bibs and heavy clothing and it's like sure i hope i don't poop back into my bibs yeah it happens well not not yet for me but we had it we're careful dirt told a great was it dirt told that story dirt told a great, was it dirt told that story? Dirt told a great story on the show years ago, or maybe not, a while ago, about a guy he knows that, he was a heavy equipment operator. And one day he's in his equipment all day and he's smelling like the unmistakable smell of human feces. Oh. But he can't figure out the source.

And he's checking his clothes and nothing makes sense and eventually he realizes that he had landed one on his suspender oh so it got on his suspender right here right oh right by his nose so all day when he turned to the right you know but then when he dropped down when he like dropped his britches and everything to try to investigate what went wrong. He never suspected that. He's an air freshener hanging off his ear. There was a guy... Oh, you'll appreciate this, Jay. He wrote, I am not the only one.

A good buddy of mine that was with the Canadian Armed Forces. You're probably excited now, aren't you? A minute ago, I had to explain to Jay why Canadians lack that American grr. Oh, yeah. We got right into it. I felt attacked. I am proud to be Canadian, but yeah.

I love Canadians, man. Every time I go up to Canada, it's good people. I think North Dakotans are as nice as Canadians. Don't get any ideas about invading this here. I know it like. It wouldn't be nice if we could just. Yeah. Yeah.

Don't get any ideas about Red Dawn and North Dakota. Friend of the Canadian Armed Forces told me a story about when they were on maneuvers that required biosecurity suits to be worn for an extended period of time. A fellow soldier actually got, this is not the word he used, but we'll say poopy dab, inside his suit. And because of the nature of the maneuvers they were on, had to wear that suit for 24 hours.

Oh, brutal. He now will not poop in the woods without taking his pants off. I mean, that's understandable. That's a scarring 24 hours. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew, our northern brothers get irritated well if you're sick of you know sucking high and titty there on x is now in canada the great features that you love

and on x are available for your hunts this season the hunt app is a fully functioning gps with hunting maps that include public and crown land hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24 K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. That's right. You were always talking about, uh, uh, we're always talking about on X here on the meat eater podcast. Now you, um, you guys in the great white North can, can be part of it. Be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service.

That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services handpicked by the OnX Hunt team. Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try On x out if you visit on x maps.com slash meet on x maps.com slash meet welcome to the to the on x club y'all i was saying how i wanted to go around and like you know when you're driving down the road and they have like a sign that says like historical marker ahead and you pull it over and it'd be like at this site,

the first grist mill was right. Opened in 17, 1750. Um, I was saying they should do that where birds went extinct, but they do do that where birds went extinct. I didn't know this. The lost bird project already did it.

They've erected memorials to the heath hen, Carolina parakeet, Labrador duck, great auk, passenger pigeon. The great auk up in your neck of the woods there, Jay, up in Canada. The heath hen in New England. Carolina parakeet down in Florida. The passenger pigeon in Ohio. The Labrador duck in New York. All Parakeet down in Florida. The Passenger Pigeon in Ohio. The Labrador Dock in New York. All these little memorials.

And then they sent some pictures of the various memorials in. They have a bronze statue of Martha, the last passenger pigeon. At her, near the aviary where she died. It's funny how all of those are out east, like those memorials. Yeah, it's an interesting point. They dot the eastern seaboard. Yeah. Maybe they don't have a travel budget.

Guy wrote in about cooking diaphragms. So someone wrote in saying that he's always cut the diaphragm off his big game harvest and left it with a gut pile. But then, this is someone writing in, but then he got to thinking, why not eat the muscle since it looks like it could make a pretty decent sized meal? Well, thankfully, this guy's probably been eating diaphragm

his whole life and doesn't know it. So, when you go and you get flank steak, skirt steak, right? Skirt steak is, like, skirt is diaphragm. So it's like skirt is where the diaphragm hooks into the rib cage. So when you're gutting a deer and you go to, like, when you're gutting the deer and you want to clear the diaphragm out so you can pass everything back,

and you trace the diaphragm along the wall of the rib, that junction where the diaphragm goes into a little mass of muscle that seems to be glued up against the ribs, that's skirt. Hanger is the rear part of the diaphragm. You've been eating that stuff your whole life. The problem is on deer, it's just not like big enough to mess with but you get up into something like a moose you can make you can do like legit skirt steak off a moose kevin gillespie goes on to say you should also tell them that on larger animals the chef kevin gillespie you should also tell them that on larger animals such as bison, wildebeest, elk, there is another muscle that sits just below the diaphragm and helps it contract.

Technically, it is the crura of the diaphragm, but culinarily, we know it as hanger steak, and it's incredible. Now, here's what I want to dig into a fair bit, because this has enormous implications. This just happened Utah so a while ago I hit the news that Arizona was banning trail cams during hunting season okay

Montana right now you can't use trail cams during hunting season that transmit a signal so that transmit messages so. So the transmit messages. So a divided Utah wildlife board voted to ban trail cam for hunting. When these motion activated devices are used to aid in the taking of game. Their use is like obviously proliferated all over the place. There are, I've seen stuff on social media. This is not the article i'm looking at but just me talking i've seen stuff on

social media where guys will go to like a waterhole in the arizona strip and there'll be 24 trail cams hanging around um sometimes they're used like this just speaking personally sometimes their use is kind of like you see some strange use of trail cams on public land too uh i was hunting turkeys with my kids in the area but it was like a pretty popular hiking trail right and it's game uses it but it's through this kind of like big landscape funnel through a little pass and a lot of animals use it but it's through this kind of like big landscape funnel through a little pass and a lot of animals use it but people use it all the time and like eyeball level there it is you know and you can't really go through the area like when you go through the area sort of like submitting to be photographed it's not even like in a sort of a discreet out

of the way place it's just like and I remember going by it and I actually started having my kids I'm like you know what go around that way I just don't want like all my I don't like pictures of my kids like some guy's trail cam I don't know yeah that's kind of weird I got a story that kind of ties these two

together the pooping and the trail cams oh that's great because why didn't you do that earlier well I didn't I didn't know the trail cams. Oh, that's great. Cause why didn't you do that earlier? Well, I didn't, I didn't know the trail cam topic was going to come up, but my uncle Mark and I. That's a good explanation. We were, my uncle Mark and I were coming back from hunting and I was like, yeah, I just got

to check this trail cam and he'd been hunting the same property as me. So we, we park and we walk and all of a sudden his face just drops and he's like, you had a trail cam set there? And I'm like, yeah, why? What's the big deal? He's like, oh he's like oh i i did uh i did some business right over there right in front of the trail cam the other day so sure enough trail cam pictures of him like all right yeah can you send those to me

i think i deleted those i had a trail cam behind our fish shack and my buddy pulled the card i still haven't got the card back because his wife was peeing back there and he took the card um now as i cover this piece as i talk about this subject i want people to know that i right now at this moment like at this moment i have a trail cam out on private land um and i have a trail cam out on public land that I was fixing to go fetch but haven't gone fetch but it's not like a transmitting one so I have one out is this band

just for public land Utah or is it just private and public during hunting season to be used in the aid in the taking of game but it goes there's some other wrinkles of this that are really interesting. This ban applies to cameras with internal storage memory as well as those that transmit images to the hunter's cell phone.

The prohibition does not apply to private landowners monitoring their property in agricultural operations or municipalities participating in the urban deer program. But it does apply to most hunting on both private and public land. That's pretty straightforward. Rolled in with this, which is very interesting, is it's also banned. Okay, again, this is something that Arizona did and Utah did. These are not like, these are very conservative states, right?

These are, you know, this isn't, you know, if you heard about this coming, no offense. If it was like from New Jersey, you could picture someone being like, that's not fair to the animals, you know, in sort of the wrong way. But this is like very like an internal hunting dialogue yeah this is i don't think that like i'm guessing i'm trying to find a way to to express this more clearly this isn't like in these states i i i suspect that it's not the case of non-hunting individuals screwing with hunters yeah like in the case where you get like a ban on bear hunting it's like it's not coming from hunters it's coming from non-hunters trying to dick with hunters yeah this is like an internal hunting conversation in these states is my gut on

this from what i've read about it it's like it's in a conversation among the hunting community they've also and this is really interesting i want to dedicate these next few sentences to spencer newhart because you know spencer always is such pain in the ass about stuff yeah well well the other day while we were loading up while we were getting ready to go pike spearing oh did you notice me being on the phone yep i was on the phone with spencer newhart what was he being a pain in the ass about about me saying to him i'm like i want to um do a deep dive on our website i want to have one of our like one of our sort of investigative writers yeah do a deep dive about what is the future of trail cam use and he was like oh yeah probably won't be

like a huge performer but i'll probably do okay he doesn't talk like that beach nut you know beach nut beach nut he's but he's he's usually right about that kind of stuff well i know i told him i didn't care because he's really good at it that's not the part he's being a pain in the ass about okay i said to him also i already texted him this morning about this i said him also, I think that you should probably start paying attention to thermal night vision stuff. I think that there's going to be a lot of discussions about thermal night vision. And then we went on to discuss how it's pretty fringe because it's like hog hunters, right? And hog hunters are killing invasive hogs, like totally unregulated. Like people are trying to get rid of them. So who would ever have a complaint with that yeah right and then increasingly

coyote hunters it's like rewriting predator hunting thermal night vision stuff yeah changing everything and i said but i still would advise you and he was kind of he's kind of like dismissive of what i was saying utah has banned thermal imaging night vision devices and i'm guessing this doesn't say but but i know from i've heard more and more and more and more from people who are using it to scout yep that you can go out in the dark and get onto a herd elk in the dark and monitor their movements through the night

and be ready for illegal light. Yeah. Makes sense. And follow them. Right. Yep. Find them in their beds. You can go out

you can find where a deer's bedded. No problem. So Utah is throwing that in. What sort of range do those things have? Like how close do you have to be to the animal for it to? Not close. We had the, I've been very curious about it. So I got to spend some time with some thermal night vision equipment.

We got some. So there's a place, Ultimate Night Vision, and they rent thermal night vision gear. And we got some to go out and hunt coyotes at night for a couple nights. And there's like a big learning curve and you're learning to use it. But I'll tell you one of the main things about it is like it is really interesting to see what goes on at night. And just the different way the way animals behave and stuff is so just different at night. It was like I'm happy for the experience of going out and witnessing what it looks like. You got to learn it.

There's a lot of stuff with depth perception that's hard but i mean it was cool man and you know this is after all the big game seasons were over so like this sort of thing like using it for hunting of big game wouldn't have any implications for us because the season was done anyways but was that down in texas no no we didn't no we used the Montana at night um just like using predator calls that night and seeing the way it just the the different attitude that things have at night about that call yeah that'd be cool um but that yeah so they they did that so to craft this camera rule they surveyed 9 000 licensed hunters seeking data on um how people are going about it right this surprised me 57 of those mugs hadn't used trail cams uh only eight percent of the mugs they interviewed were using transmitting cameras i thought it'd be way higher than that. Yeah.

I think that stuff's just catching on though. Yeah. I didn't know that. Like a year from now, I think that would be totally different. You think so? It's just catching on. I think it's just catching on. Those transmitting cameras,

like I've just had headaches with them so many times. And it's like, I consider myself a techie person and it's still just like, you know, you got a lot of people that can barely use their cell phones, let alone try to figure out how to link a camera. Yeah. I think though, you're going to see more and more because of the price point, right?

The price point's already dropped in half for what it was like three or four years ago. Totally. Where it was four, five, $600 for those. And now you can get a decent one for, you know, 150, 180. That's a good point because even like with jay what's what your live scope you have a garmin live scope yep i was like jealous of that and in the back of my head i'm like man i guarantee like in a year it's gonna be half the price in a year i get it for half the price and it'll somehow be better yep

it's gonna get there but you're like you're like early you're like an early adopter on a live scope yeah and if you're a tournament guy, it's like that's the edge. You need to spend that little bit of extra money to get that edge. And if Garmin wants to send these boys a couple LiveScopes to the walleye tour. Thanks, Jay. Danny Thompson. Danny Thompson. If you're listening to this.

I wouldn't mind if they kicked one in for me. And they should know that I have a lot of Garmin products, dude. And I just ordered a Garmin dive watch. Nice. I have a Garmin. Man, I got a lot of garmin products dude and i just ordered a garmin dive watch nice i have a garment man i got a lot of garmin product yeah so haven't got my dive watch yet i got an mk1 nice um what the hell was i talking about oh here's the other even i'm going to like normally if you study journalism in college they'll tell you this they'll tell you like when you write an article put the most important thing up top and then you work down in levels of interest and importance right so it'd be like um seth dies right and then you'd go down be like oh so that's how seth died and then you go down a little more and eventually at the bottom would be like seth had a dog you know it's sort of the article to flow like that pretty cool dog yep um i'm doing the opposite because

here's the most interesting part of this to me yeah coming at the end uh they're putting an end to the sale of data and images produced by trail cameras meaning there are guys like and i know some of these guys there are guys that are professional scouts and they sell um they're professional scouts that find animals and sell animals to governor's tag holders they sell animals to outfitters so they'll go out and they'll find like you know they go out and find like a 220 inch mule deer, right? They can sell that knowledge about that animal and sell the photos of that animal and the waypoints. That's pretty tough to track. I would think that'd be a tough thing for them to crack down on. One of the guys that didn't like this rule that they interviewed, they mentioned he had a hard time with enforcement.

Because you're saying like, okay, on private land, you can use it to monitor your property. Okay. So this guy's like, ooh, big buck, can't look at that. Not going to let that change my hunt plans. Yeah. Come on. Yeah, that's going to be tough.

Just the other day, I texted a buddy of mine because we're trying to plan out next year's bobcat trip and i texted the buddy of mine that said you got any what's going on with bobcats up in your neck of the woods right what's he sent me two seconds later trail cam picture of bobcat and that probably influenced my decision making at that point where I was like, ooh, tell me more. Not able to sell that stuff if you're a professional scout.

Scouter. Which kind of makes sense in a way. Fair chase. Hear that little clap I did? Go find it yourself. Yeah, I like like that what's that for i don't know what it means man move on just felt like uh transition yeah just felt like i needed to put a clap in there it was like a bookend yeah that's what it meant to be it's like a book closing yep

so let me let me you know i did my book close too early i think that i wonder if this is gonna be a thing because if you're sitting at home trying to think about how technology intersects with hunting and hunting practices fishing practices um i think there's a great example to be found in drones and i was talking to this with, old beach nut the other day, Spencer, uh, while you guys were loading up gear and we were talking, we were talking about the example of what happened with drones. Okay. The minute drones became like the minute there was a discussion about using drones for hunting, like overnight 13 States and then a bunch more followed but immediately 13 states in the west like open country states where drones would be particularly helpful because they're open ground 13 states came in and said no no drones and hunting no use of drones and hunting and i was

like it was interesting that they got on it so fast yeah because they they did it before there was a user group before it had become woven into the hunting culture and spencer brought up he said but drones went from zero to 60 because like the the initial the first initial thing that it was good for was it was good for mounting a camera that's like what made them what they were like if you couldn't mount a camera on them it's a toy helicopter like no one cares so he's like it went from zero to 60 and you could immediately see it he goes if you go back in trail cam history it's like a thing could like initially a thing could like tell you that something passed by right and it evolved and you and you built up this user group of people you built up a big

industry for it there's a lot of companies that make trail cams people have been using trail cams for a decade or more right but then trail cams hit to this certain level of sophistication and this certain price point whereas now it's like very achievable to get a camera that sends you messages that says like right now right now there's a buck in that field to your phone. And so for now, for state game agencies to want to go like, man, it's kind of getting ridiculous. Now we got to like clamp down on this. You're going to be battling against people who this is like woven into their cultural fabric

of hunting. Well, and there's more. And it's just going to be harder. And drones were like, they got drones before drones were a thing. Yeah. Well, there's more before drones were a thing. Yeah. Well, there's more gray area with the trail cams. Like you said, the landowners, a drone is

like, if you put a flying object in the sky with a camera, it's like, that's a no go. But the, the trail cam thing is a little more touchy. Like a lot of, uh, provinces will say you can't even have your drone along when you're hunting. Like if it's, and that for me, that's tough

because I'm always filming stuff, but like even from a non-hunting standpoint, if you just, you just can't have the drone in your vehicle like that's a no-go yeah a lot of states you can't you can't be like like say i i'm chet and i are hunting a property and i see a buck heading his way i can't text him be like hey chet big buck coming yeah like be ready that but you know you can have in a lot states, you can have a trail camera that's on a trail a couple hundred yards from you and get a picture sent to your phone of a buck walking past that trail camera heading in your direction. Yeah, it's the same thing.

It's the same damn thing. You know what else Spencer annoyed me about? When I was talking to him about doing, like, a big thing, like sort of the pros, the cons, get a bunch of perspectives on, like, where trail cams are headed, I was talking to him about doing like a big thing, like sort of the pros, the cons get a bunch of perspectives on like where trail cams are headed. I was saying to him, um, I don't want, I don't want you guys all.

He's the guy I'm going to talk about. It's been on the show, but I'm not gonna say who he is. There's a, there's a guy I know that manages a large property. He's been on the show. Um, I'll let him talk about this,

but I want to talk about it for him and name him anyway he said and he's in a state where there's no prohibitions on trail cams whatsoever he this year for the first time ever during hunting season turned them all off he said it was just changing the game so much and getting too weird yeah that he knew where everything because he's got 20 some of them you know out and when they're and he's a he's a property manager on a hunting property and it just got to be where like it just rewrote everything oh one's coming down the field edge right now well that's kind of just like the live I just got the message it's just like live scope you see the fish coming they can't hide

anymore it's like. So he voluntarily turned his, he voluntarily turned his off and he said it was nice. He was like, he was glad that he did it and wanted to send it, wanted to like sort of change in the hunting season.

Yeah. So anyway, Spencer's like, yeah, well that's kind of an anomaly and that doesn't matter. I'm like, you wouldn't be able to,

if you were a journalist, you wouldn't be able to write about murder because murder's an anomaly. Do you know what i mean yeah he wouldn't be able to be like so-and-so brutally murdered someone because that's weird by his logic yeah you see what i'm saying why it was why spencer was so annoying right there with all this crazy technology oh sorry i was gonna do the bookend again go ahead chester with all this crazy technology oh sorry i was gonna do the bookend again go ahead chester with all this crazy technology it just makes me think that people just have to be as responsible as they can with it and obviously you know like with live scope for instance being able to target

a school of crappies way better than you used to once people actually really figure out how to use it not just going out there and like just limiting and keeping their limits all the time you know just being responsible with it well there's like a i call it a wives tale but we say back home that if you if you laid out a hundred percent of the fish that are caught right a hundred percent of those fish are caught by less than 20 of those anglers right because of skill because of ability because of mobility things like that yeah electronics are changing that that percentage like you're saying is definitely going to go up because it's no longer about just knowing patterns or

having the right baits or you know the boat to get there those electronics take the guesswork the guesswork completely out of it like map chips when you can go to a lake you've never been to before and you have one foot contours i remember like 10 years ago fishing with my buddy and he would have like pictures and we triangulate it and it was just you know it felt so archaic and now there's just you roll up to a lake and you can have where all the old road beds are and weed lines and everything yeah uh here's the final thing i'm gonna say about it and i'm gonna do the bookend thing again uh we'll all do that to count three if everyone everybody's good but i think that uh like i've expressed i've tried to explain a perspective on this a handful of times where when looking at

like practices hunting practices i i tend to i tend to take the approach where like historical use patterns okay like historical use cultural practices like that stuff needs to be honored and respected. If it's something that's, if it's a sustainable practice and people have been doing it a long time, like I'd honor that. So if you're in a state where people have run black bears, hunted black bears with hounds, and they've been doing it,

and they have a stable bear population, and they've been at it for 200 years, to me, that's like, that that's in that's grandfathered in like don't mess with that right it's a it's a it's a cultural practice i think that like as you get into the technology stuff um you're going to continue you're going to have to continue to have conversations about um i think it's fair game to have conversations about incoming technology i'd rather do that than go and revisit cultural practices and try to like get rid of that stuff yeah and you got and i think that you got if you're if you're a manager i think you got to look like out on the horizon and you got to see what's coming. And if, and if you think something's going to become problematic down the road, I would

suggest that you get on a little early before it becomes woven into the, into the cultural fabric of, you know, in the hunting community. Yeah. And it's going to be hard. If you came in now and said, you know what, after careful consideration, I think that the compound bow is just too effective. Right. Good luck. Right. Good luck. consideration i think that the compound bow is just too effective right good luck right good luck but you could honestly have had that chat in 1980 they're trying there's talks about uh live bait

getting cut out of manitoba and that's something it's like well these people have been using live bait for however many years it's been grandfathered grandfathered in, so it's a tough discussion. Yeah, if you're getting rid of live bait to make room for live scopers to catch more fish, that's a real problem for me. It's a real problem for me. The crossbow thing's another big issue. Yeah. All right.

One, two, three. Okay, everybody's done talking about that. Mandy, can you do me the favor of laying out where we are and what's going on? And about how everything's underwater and shit like that? Take it away. Because you grew up in this neck of the woods, so you got an inside. You have land that's currently, people are probably fishing on your land right now. They are.

They actually are that that is 100 for sure uh most people would call it bfe but we are in the beautiful state of north dakota uh we're in the devil's lake area currently we are on the far far west end uh over in the minnewacken area in our cozy shack chalet here our double wide our double wide uh yeah it's just a really small community that's that's grown a little bit with the oil booms out for a little bit further out west but it's a fishing community it's a fishing farming community um yeah you're talking about about the lake growing uh it's blown up obviously it's been a big deal it's been going on now it's hard to say that it's been going on for a couple decades i really feel the water rise the water

rise correct so um the lake actually for like the the eight most of the 80s we were kind of in a drought pattern here um it the interesting part too is uh when we were a drought pattern and the waters were exceptionally low, there was really high mercury levels here in the water. The salinity levels were really high. There was actually warnings out for the amount of fish that you could eat based on those things. We had some historic snow events. We got back to regular rain patterns, snow patterns. We had a 500-year event, a 100-year event, and then more regular rain events. And I think it's like a million acres plus now. are gone. Houses are gone. Farms are gone. Tree lines are gone. Roads have been built up 50, 60 feet in some areas to make them still passable. Other ones they've just completely abandoned.

That's crazy. Yeah, and tell about the place you grew up on just as an example. So where I grew up on over on Black Tiger Bay, which actually used to be the farthest east portion of Devil's Lake, where we actually fished day one was actually not connected historically. Yeah, I remember you pointing to where your place would have been. Correct. Yeah, the water just started rising and it actually rose fairly quick the first couple of years

to the point where accesses had to be moved people lost homes you couldn't move cabins things like that and it just swallowed it up like if you couldn't if you couldn't physically move that structure it's gone were they gutting those houses of um like like hauling away propane hauling away like stuff they didn't want to get in the water or was it happening too fast that's a really good question uh like where we were at uh you jumped on it as fast as you could but there was still so you had to pick and choose right like the structures that you could possibly change and they're just we're we're remote here and you can only move so much um realistically like we gave like we gave trailers away we just

sent it out there really and just said come get them because we're gonna lose them right like we didn't have the money to pay all that to have them moved but we didn't want them to go to waste we definitely didn't want them to be underwater right so just come get these structures they're yours but it's weird to say that there's where we're at there's a mile and a half underwater it's underwater like it's gone yeah under under like under 60 under 60 vertical feet of water but you'd have to go a mile and a half out correct from the shoreline yes yes so how fast did the water rise oh um we had a bunch of issues and jay can actually chime in on this too like the the big trigger point was like in the 90s um actually kind of like in the in the late 90s um we had bad bad flooding you know a ton of snow spring melt

off all these things it was like the perfect storm of everything to to happen and that initial jump was crazy uh to the point where they couldn't get caught up and if you notice the road structure around here like we drove over a couple of those bridges like those are gone right so to drive all the way around like 60 70 80 miles because you can't drive across you know cut across um and then it just continued to go it just continued until we're out where we're at right now like the bowl is full yeah that's that's another thing that um this is like a dead-end basin so normally you think of like flooding in a river valley it's just that the river valley can't drain it fast enough but you know floods go away pretty quick but here you're flooding an area that that the outflow is is very high up so you could it could hold all this water for such a long period of time

well it's so flat here like this is the we were talking about this yesterday the catchment area for so much like yeah when it all the water just collects here it's yeah it brings a wide and it's it eventually is gonna it eventually drains out in which direction when it leaves here well currently i and i shouldn't say that i should have double checked but historically um they have been draining one to two inches off every month and they've been draining it into the cheyenne river uh very very controlled they have a couple big pump houses correct yeah like on. Like on Minnewalkan side here and then one on the west side, right?

Correct. There's a few of them. The reason why they have to go into there, it'd make more sense to go into the Red River. The problem is as the Red River flows north, it flows into Canada. We don't want your water. I thought they were pumping some in. What's wrong with the water, man? It's full of big

walleyes. Well, that's true. She's the biologist. She could probably speak more water, man? It's full of big walleyes. Well, that's true. She's the biologist. She could probably speak more to that. It is actually full of big walleyes. You guys feel up in Canada. You're going to have to speak for the whole nation. Oh, boy. You guys feel like you're just good on water.

Yeah, we're set. We got enough fresh water. Trust me, we send them enough every spring that causes flooding for them, too. Because we melt here, obviously, before they do. And that water's all running north, and they haven't thawed yet. So the Winnipeg area, all along there, it floods pretty bad. It's a serious thing. Talking about good American water here, Jay.

We'll pass. We'll pass. You guys start drinking that water, you'll get a lot more grr up in that country. More aggression. So this... This water does make it to Canada, though, right? Is what, like Cheyenne flowing north? I don't know what way you're pointing at me. Well, I'm just saying,

Devil's Lake naturally overflows into the Cheyenne River. The Cheyenne River is a tributary of the Red River of the North, which flows into Canada. Ooh, the plot thickens. I'm not familiar with the Cheyenne. I mean, if it goes into the Red, then yeah, it comes into Canada. So you are getting married. But very slowly.

They don't want to go indirect. The Red River's still doing good. We'll research this and find out but uh back to your place can you explain the property tax things that's really interesting to me that for a while you had to pay taxes on land it was underwater correct if you think about the farms you know my heart bleeds for for that That's what my family does is farms too. And thousands and thousands and thousands of acres of underwater, we're talking row crop and cattle,

things like that. And because you owned it, you still had to pay property tax on it. Even though people are driving over it in boats. Correct. It's underwater. So they actually had to go, and like I said, because that water rose so fast and they were

trying to deal with FEMA and I mean,, all the other disaster federal things like that. It kind of got lost in the mix per se, right? Because it has to go through the legislature and all that. So, yeah, it took them a while for them to repeal that law. So now you don't have to pay tax, but you still own that land. So if the water ever magically recedes, like down to you know the ladies 80s early 90s level like there's gonna be a whole lot of property out there you know we we covered it's the same i think it's the same weather events in an area in south dakota and i don't know if you've had a

similar problem up here but in south dakota there were there's a lot of controversy where with the rising water inundating farmland and residential properties um even though taxes were suspended on the submerged water there were people going in and running buoy markers along their property lines i would keep anglers and hunters out but then having what everybody said like private parts of the lake. So you would buoy off your farm with buoy strings and just have it be like you could fish it. But then people are like, but it's the fish from a state stocking program. And this was going on at the time. Yeah. from a state stocking program and this was going on at the time yeah and he said like naturally

the way that everybody thinks is then people would go and all line up along the buoy fence because like it's got to be better over there so they'd go fish along that edge you know thinking that's where all the fish were hiding is over on the private property which is like a like a like a very much like a hunting thing you know um and people were hashing that out was that a thing was that were you seeing that up here where people were like fencing off with buoy markers what would have been their lot no no this is way too big of big of waters but that whole south dakota gig is really interesting too because that kind of happened around the same time i feel like a little bit sooner um wabe specifically specifically that comes to mind right away

there's literally a few accesses where the silos of the farms that's all that's sticking out of the top of the water we were in some of those areas that's the structure in Wabe is those old farmsteads but the crazy part which you guys should do a little bit of research

on they started like putting in these public accesses, right? Which then they then repealed later. Okay. Which has been really been a big controversy there. So there, it was already a pothole, like littered with potholes, but obviously rising waters, things spill over.

Yeah. Like private land becomes now public waters. It's a big controversy there. And it just kind of keeps going but they kind of gave us like a pre-shot highlight of what was going to happen almost but this happened on a bigger scale do you ever take um do you ever take a boat and go cruise around on like what like over your property no i i haven't actually. I think it would be really, really interesting to go see and look at what's there and how deep it is. Oh yeah, to go down there with some dive gear?

It's heartbreaking. Look for your old stuff? Yeah, it's heartbreaking, right? Like this is where I grew up. This is where this love and this passion and my best memories of my dad and my family are at. And you make new, but it would be, it's hard. So did the fishing, as soon as the water got up, was the fishing just like instantly

that much better than before? Like with all that extra? Within a year or two, because you got all that extra structure, you got all that extra cover, you've got way more water. Like a ton of spotting water, right? It had to have allowed,

it had to have allowed it had to make fish stocks just explode man imagine just how much and how much nutrients because when i in the 90s i just heard about devils all the time i'm not sure if that would be considered the peak of the fishery like but yeah i would say yeah and that was a weird part too like i can remember the worst algae blooms like i mean split green pea soup disgusting the whole entire lake in the old days in the old days right and i'm maybe on some small bays now but you just don't have that right you know i think there was a lot of concern too when we had all this overland flooding um because of the residual uh chemicals right coming off croplands coming coming from the

structures that had been flooded what was going been flooded, what was going to happen, right? What was going to happen with that water quality? Was it, I mean, were we going to kill fish? Were we going to have some catastrophic events here based on the facilities that had been swallowed up whole by it? Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes.

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if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet on x maps.com slash meet welcome to the to the on x club y'all what's the sort of local um temperature on this thing now are there people who are, I like it just the way it is now? I can't speak for that. I think it's conflicting because the farmers,

I mean, fishermen I'm sure were happy when that was, I mean. Oh, it's got to be like, you got a lot of people who just like the fish. Yeah.

And they're like, no, perfect. And there's a lot of people who just like the farm and they're like, this ain't acceptable. No. Yeah.

I chatted with some folks in this area about that and uh i think it's like 25 million dollars of fishing rings you know to this economy that was like back in 2005 or whatever so it's got to be maybe greater now or whatnot but well it's probably way more now farmers are really wanting their land back and obviously the fishermen really want to keep it i wonder what the value of those farms would be if it'd be considerable to the 25 million or oh i don't know i don't know what a farm's worth like the agricultural output the agricultural output off all that land would have to dwarf the 25 20

the fishing act 25 million25 million of the fishing activity. I don't know. I don't know either. I've been reading just right now on this pumping water stuff and it is, in 2005, they just

began pumping water into the Cheyenne River, which then drains into the Red River, which flows into Manitoba and Lake Winnipeg. And then Hudson Bay goes into the ocean eventually. And they were worried about, you know, back then about the salt levels and stuff that were in here

contaminating like Lake Winnipeg and whatnot. But there are four pumps put in the area to be able to do that in canals and drainage pipes um or channels and drainage pipes what a project yeah 20 what did it say um what is the does it what is the goal is the goal like what year this has got to be something people debate too what years regarded as normal if normal happened to be if normal happened to be like if we sort of like set our expectations on normal during a major drought cycle like what is normal well i don't know the the one map chip that, my buddy had for the area, like the Navionics,

whatever it was, they say the one that shows a lot of the earlier outline is 1990 was, was a big date. Cause that, that spot we were fishing was probably the 1990 roadbed. So it was 22 feet of water, um, where, where we were fishing yesterday. And that was the old road, right? Right. With all that rubble. So I, that's the date that stuck in my head from talking to.

So if you were going to pump it back to normal, you're going to be pumping off 22 feet of water off of... In 1940, Devil's Lake was nearly dry. And in June of 2011, the lake reached a modern-day record high. So it's been going down since then? June 2011.

I mean, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's been going down obviously. It can't be going down very much. Literally, like, so we have all the fluctuations, right? This lake can fluctuate eight, nine feet a year. No problem, right?

That's not a big deal. That's not based on a major drought. That's just because of so much surface area, things like that. But it was just a couple of years ago after my dad passed, I came back out obviously to the cabins, wanted to see the property,

make sure everything's good, talk to our neighbors. And I was nervous. This is a later property correct so we we were we moved right like we moved significantly back um and i remember pulling in and like the water was right there like it's it was like 22 feet we got out like the you know tape measure from the back door of the cabin to the water and And I was like, oh my gosh, like, what do I do? Like, this was not this close.

Got you. You know, do we have to move this stuff again? Like, really? Yeah. Like, freaking out. And so the, we'll say one of the accesses, I won't say exactly which one because they'll know where the properties are at,

but this access has been moved seven times. All seven times it's been moved on our property but like basically eminent domain yeah you know so i've seen them move back as the water comes up and it's nice landing do you know but it's like now we've got that right there and i'm like okay what's do they know what's going to happen or should we just pull the stuff now or is it actually going to go you know go back down so they were showing us i'm sure it happens around here but in in south dakota they were showing us these like what they think are like dream boat launches which is where highways go underwater

oh yeah and they're like no matter how high the water gets or how low it gets you're still like backing down a highway that's amazing you know like very nice boat launches it says there's asphalt boat launch geological evidence that the lakes have overflowed into the cheyenne river and dried up completely on several occasions over the past 10 000 years years. There you go. Thank you, Chester. I wonder how high the water... It's like having a little Doug Dern here, man. He's just not fighting with you on text messages. He doesn't fight you, but he checks everything out.

I wonder how high the water has to peak to flow out of the basin. It's probably right around Like how much higher than right now? An elevation of 1,454.3 feet. Is when it'll start. It's like record high

in modern day. Ready to move on. that all right chester okay here's here's something i want to do here because talk about what we've been up to i want to juxtapose um i want to juxtapose live scope fishing with pike spearing. Because I think these are, like, if you imagine, like, imagine that you stretch your arms out as wide as you can stretch them. Okay?

And that constitutes the spectrum of ice fishing activities. Out at your whatever tip, your right fingertip, is a timeline that advances. From Seth's perspective, let me see. From Seth's perspective,

my right fingertip would be Spear and Northerns. And my left fingertip would be spearing northerns. And my left fingertip would be live scoping fish through the ice. So which do you want to start with? I'm asking you this, Jay. Well, spearing. Let's talk about spearing. Okay. I'll handle this one.

All right. Spearing, in my mind, is true ice fishing. Pure, true ice fishing. Can you agree with that or not agree with that? What do you mean by that? It just feels like a long time ago when you're spearing northerns. Oh, yeah. Not with Jay's sweet camera setup, but we weren't gaining anything with Jay's sweet camera setup.

He might have been attracted to my camera. We don't know if he came in for the camera. He didn't eat the camera. I can't wait. Can I put that up on social media? You don't care? Yeah, no. Post it. I'll credit you. Can you give me a better version of it? Yeah. We had a sweet camera setup, but it had nothing to do with us.

It wasn't in the dark house. It was just recording and it was cool to look at it later. Spearing goes like this. A lot of people already know, but'm gonna tell you anyway um you uh drill a a hole of staggering proportions through the ice mandy mandy said she's been around a lot of ice fishing activities she has never seen a spear hold as big as the one we made and i blame blame them. But Mandy has a giant auger. And I normally think in my head, like, I'm going to go five augers wide

and three augers deep. Yeah. And that's what I did. Except you used my 10-inch auger. It was a 50-inch hole. 50-inch by 30-inch. It was a good-sized hole. It was ginormous.

Yeah. Mandy about went in there. And if she fell in, she wouldn't even hit the sides. She could have fell in horizontal and not hit the sides. So, yeah. So, like, it used to be hard to make a spear hole. But with good augers, it's pretty easy to make a spear hole. You just make a bunch of holes and you kind of butt them right up to each other and sometimes they'll overlap or

sometimes not and you take an ice saw and connect all the holes and you can do one of two things depending on where you're at and what you're supposed to do where you're at um and i think it depends a little bit on weather you can either take that block and each has its pros and cons you can take that block and shove it under the ice sink in the cake that's what they call it yeah you can sink the cake or you can what do you what do you call when you drag it up on the ice eat the cake eat the cake can't eat your cake and sink it too so uh um pushing it down has to be the most common yeah i'm trying is it is it ask like eskimo makes the the i have a bunch of them the eskimo or ion makes the auger no that makes the screws the

handle screws eskimo that's good okay yeah so there's there's a screw you can use to like anchor your your fish shanty to the ice or whatever you need to anchor to the ice. It's a screw you can just drive into the ice. Yeah. And they also make a, you can also get an auger attachment. Like I have an eye on auger and you can get an attachment for driving these screws. Anyways, when you cut this,

so when you cut this periphery of the hole out, the spear hole, you got like a large block of ice sitting in there. In the old days, they'd hook up the mules or whatever and drag it up and put in the ice house pack it with sawdust then you have ice all summer long yeah but that's not what we're doing um to pull the block out like my friends in alaska pull the block out and they'll drive the

they'll drive the handles the ice screws into the block and then you get then you push down on it like you know when you go to pull someone into a boat who's wearing a life jacket, how you go down and up and you get the buoyancy to help you get a little inertia? So you get a couple of those handles in there and you push down and you go, one, two, three, and you drag it up on the ice. The problem is in really cold weather, that block just freezes. It welds itself to the ice. And that's not something you want to hit with your shell machine. I'll just say that.

Well, there was a guy that got killed. A guy was racing across the lake on a snowmobile and hit a block of ice that someone had dragged out and frozen to kill the guy. Because the controversy is that, like, if you have that open hole afterwards, like, you could potentially be open to manslaughter if someone goes through that hole and dies, right?

Yeah. It's like, I mean, we marked our holes, but that's a pretty important thing.'s if you don't mark that hole on a warm day and it creates like a special thing because on a warm day when it's not gonna seal back up like we were out in such cold weather that you couldn't keep thing open anyway no if you wanted to but yeah you know i don't want to drag it on too long but there's all these different things so what they require look here's a good way to discuss it. North Dakota, which I'd like to credit the North Dakota Fishing Game Agency.

They have very well thought ice fishing rules. Like fine tooth comb. And they lay out, Chester, tell them, when you drill a dark house hole. If you have a hole that's 10 inches or greater you legally have to have a dowel a brightly colored wooden lathe i guess is how they have it stated or a natural object to mark your that hole and you have to have it on you at while you're fishing while you're fishing and i think it has to be clearly visible from 50 yards yep 150 feet wasn't it clearly visible from 150 feet your marker yep um so we sunk the cake then what you got to do is you need to uh people do this different

ways like when i was a little kid people used to like so you well you got to put up your shanty and you got to have it darkened out so we use eskimo shanties and they got windows which are great to open the window up like a plastic window you can open up and let sunlight in when you're regular fishing but then you can velcro the flaps up to rule out the light because you got to have it be that you're in a dark structure in fact they call it dark like they'll call it in the dark house or dark house fishing so you drill this big asshole you sit on a seat looking into it and when you're out in the daylight you can't tell you can't see into the water but the same way you know when you like put your hands up around your eyes and look down into the to the water when you put the shanty up and block all the light from coming in and shovel

snow around the edge and really get it sealed up it it's lit up like a TV screen to see the bottom. When we were young, we used to put people would slice potatoes. If you were fishing in pretty deep water, you'd slice potatoes real thin or you'd boil a bunch of elbow macaroni to get some white on the bottom so that you could see the outline of deep fish. We tried a bed sheet once. Oh, you did? That didn't work too great.

I can't picture that. To actually get it to spread out properly. So then you're going to retrieve it back out of there later? Yeah, you fold it back at the end. Oh. It was so much work, and it didn't work out properly. Yeah, our thinking was you're using organic matter. Yeah, eggshells.

Sure, I remember eggshells too. Save all your eggshells, crumple them up, put them down the hole just to get a little something to see what's going on. A PVC X, but people pull them out. Yeah. Okay. And siding. I've seen white siding.

Make an X in the bottom of the hole with white siding. Oh, then you can retrieve it though. Then you pull it up. Yeah. Just so you can catch something coming across. Yeah. And I'm going to say something real quick. So I said 10 inches or greater you have to mark it it's anything

greater than 10 inches has to be marked so a normal 10 inch auger hole you don't need to mark yes i i was wrong well that makes sense then so here you got this giant hole or whatever the hole yeah a big hole and you got a dark structure so you're're sitting in the dark, which makes, which illuminates the bottom and you're looking down in there and then you hang a decoy and you know, you can get as extravagant or not. Decoys range from that. You would hang a pie plate or a beer can down in the hole, hanging on a string.

So you can jiggle it and create like a object of curiosity to fish. We had a decoy that a guy made for us and sent it to us where it's like a object of curiosity to fish um we had a decoy um that a guy made for us and sent to us where it's like uh looks like a fish it's got fins it's like it's not quite neutral buoyancy it's like slightly heavier so it slowly sinks and you lift it up on a string like a puppet let the string go in its circles it's real nice and shows a lot of activity chartreuse um i don't know if they do it as much anymore but i remember like people used to harness rig suckers you'd catch a sucker and harness rig a sucker and let it swim around the hole to lure pike in and then but we used to you know spear white there's a variety of things people spear we spear white

fish and some other stuff um in some lakes you're allowed to spear walleye but it's generally like a pike thing northern pike and then you work that decoy you know you're anywhere from you could be as shallow as four feet of water which is pretty shallow you can be as deep as 13 14 feet of water which is pretty deep but let's say you're six to eight feet of water um you work that decoy just wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and eventually a northern if you're lucky a northern or many northerns throughout the course of the day are going to come creeping in and they just sneak up on that decoy they like want to see what it is they might strike it they might just nudge it um and when they do you have a weighted spear that you need to hit them.

It's hard, but you did it. Things happen fast. Tell them, Chester. Things happen real fast. They were in a different ice shack, and I cut in a little farther from them, and we had a Jay's decoy going and had, I think four different occasions where a pike came in and three of those, no,

two of those times out of the four, that pike gave us no chance to really spirit. It came in from nowhere, struck the decoy, took off again. Decoys too good. I don't understand why people don't put hooks on their decoys. It's like, if your point is getting a pike to eat,

why not put hooks in the decoy? Because you see the decoy counts as a line anyways. Yeah, you know what was interesting is, I can't remember, was it Mandy or Jay that made a comment about, like, do they grab it? Yeah, I asked you just before. And I said, no, I said they'll kind of like nudge it, but they don't like grab it, grab it. Five minutes later, this pike comes in.

And just engulfs it. Like really, like grab it enough for you to hook them. Because I was like, no, they like bump it. You know, they like tap, like kind of like strike it. But this thing grabbed it and sort of like wrestled with it. It was cool. That was super cool. He looked like an alligator trying to tear a chunk off something when he grabbed onto that thing.

Well, I was staring at it slowly, and you were ready to throw, and then it went in charge mode, ate it, and then you had that shot just after, but that would have been a tough shot to make. Yeah. I think it's... Oh, I love it. And it gets into what we were talking about earlier,

sort of the cultural stuff, right? Yeah. There's a lot of states where you cannot spear fish so you cannot spear game fish with the exception of dark house northern pike yeah it's just a thing that's a way people have targeted northerns for a long time and as much as you can't spear game fish or gig game fish um in in northern states it's like generally you can this is how we've always done it and i think that um in the future if we're having a big old fight about the allocation of the resource i would think that the live scope guys would need to

to acquiesce to the dark house guys that was my that was my segue into live scope fishing yeah i mean i i that was my first spearfishing experience and i was like revved up you know i didn't get one but just seeing one it was cool i mean i think there's they're just like you said different ends of the spectrum because live scope for those of you that aren't familiar with live scope can i i gotta add one more thing i'm sorry just to tee it up better for you uh i should point out that a lot of people would say it's really unfair to the fish to spear the fish. Because you're not tricking him into eating.

Yeah. It's like some people might be like, what's the challenge in that? You're sinking a giant spear into a fish. What's the challenge? It's very barbaric. And you can't release them. Nope.

It's like, it's bloodthirsty. I don't have that perspective. I just wanted to open up that someone might say like someone might look and be like that to me that strikes me as unethical fishing because it's like you're you know you haven't tricked him he just passes through the hole and you jab a big spear into him yeah and that's gotta hurt. Not the one I got. Yeah, yours died pretty quickly. But I mean, yeah, it depends on the size. Like, I mean, you have a little more of a chance when you catch with rod and reel to choose if you want to release it or not.

Obviously you have a chance to decide if you want to spear that fish or not, but it happens pretty fast. You got to make a decision and you might not have time to hum and haw between a 35 or 40 inch when he's right there. Yeah,'s what when i was when i was when i grew up in michigan um we're just fishing lake where there's no that you don't have a size requirement so but when i grew up michigan at first for most of my life that i lived there it was mostly 21 20 northern had to be 21 yep it jumped up to 24 but as you can imagine that's a hard call to make

it's a hard call to make fast I would say not just with when you have inch restrictions like it's been highly controversial in Minnesota where certain lakes that hold muskie have been specifically shut down and no spearing is involved right because a normal

joe even a really good angler is going to have a hard issue in that split second you know is that a pike or is that a muskie and just in the last few years like malax cast some of these ones that hold really big beautiful muskie have now been reopened for spearing and it's highly controversial oh yeah and that i imagine there's probably people that show up there that aren't even aware that that could be a thing yeah correct you know and they're like yeah if you didn't if you weren't aware that was gonna be a thing you wouldn't until you got that thing up on the ice you'd start thinking maybe something was a little different but yeah it'd be a hard call to make i wouldn't trust myself i've seen a lot of pike a lot of muskies if i'm seeing it from straight down

view yeah yeah it'd be some quick thinking there are a handful of lakes right here in North Dakota that it's not legal to spear, and it's because of the muskies. So the weird thing is, spearing in North Dakota has only been open for like 20 plus years. The first year that they opened it was in 2008, 2009, and it was actually only open for the first two weeks in March.

And that was it, and it was only open to residents. 2009, 2010, it was the first winter that non-residents like Minnesotans could come in to North Dakota and and spear and then it was open for like a month right so then fast forward no it was 2012-2013 where most of the state you could spear, but there still was not a statewide, you know, spear application for that. But it's, yeah, so it keeps growing and growing, but. So they've been like tiptoeing their way in, probably wanting to see

what the harvest is going to look like. Correct. So they went really above and beyond and they have like unbelievable data. Like I'm fairly impressed for their survey results here. So they did a survey in 2020 uh 2020 2021 and they had 4372 uh individuals that registered for that were resident spears there was over 2500 non-residents that so yeah they figured about 16 600 pike were speared from

the people that they surveyed, right? So, I mean, they really dug down. Like, I geek out about this kind of information. How many pike were speared? 16,605. Wow, so those guys are doing good. Correct. The early registers were doing good. Correct.

Average spear age was 49 years old, and 88% of them were male. A year older than me. me 72 of the respondents indicated that they actually uh dark house fish so they must have surveyed like the all of the people that have fishing licenses so that's pretty high right like that's 72 of resident fishing license holders spirit no you sure it's not that that of the people that got registered that's the percent that actually went so 72 percent of respondents indicated that they actually dark house spear yeah they're interviewing people that registered gotcha yeah um but yeah it must be

growing uh 60 of those people that took the survey uh so that they had taken someone dark house spearing for the first time. Yeah, I mean, that's really cool. They did a really good job with that spearing information. Dude, again, man, I'm like really high on North Dakota fishing game, man. The stocking

reports and netting reports are unreal. A lot of transparency. Yeah. Good state. Good place to be. It good state good place to be it is a good place to be and the walleye thing's new too which is interesting how they're becoming more open to that like i think just the last two years is when they opened walleye spearing on a couple of leaks around here oh so they're like tiptoeing into dark house they're the same as live scope they're both coming in at the same time yeah all right so now now let's get into the live scope thing all right i got real mixed feelings i want one bad yeah but i did get a little bit of a guilty conscience because here's the well i'll tell you later go ahead and lay it all out i'll tell you why i felt guilty so like your typical

uh sonar whatever you're getting an 18 degree cone angle looking down your hole that's what you see use a lot of analogies here yeah so i mean um you're like shining a flashlight down the hole and that beam is 18 degrees and whatever is underneath the flashlight like a scooby-doo like the flashlight that they always use in scooby-doo yeah exactly like that like a very precise a very precise angle where it's like it's like utter darkness meets utter light yeah yeah you got it um so typically yeah the fish would have to be right under hole and you would see them in real time you can see your lure going up and down you can see the fish interacting and even that has revolutionized ice fishing i think your your catch rate i would say would be up 3x or 4x with that i

would turn if i forgot mine i'd turn around for a lot like not all fishing obviously spearing electronics isn't going to help you much um but if i forgot my electronics i would turn around and go home but live scope now is instead of that 18 degree angle it's 135 degrees by 18 so you can decide how you want to point it and stuff but it's like kind of like ultrasound you're getting a real-time reading so i can be looking 100 feet off to the side, or I can do a pan. So normally, let's say, for an example, you're looking for black crappies in a basin. You would drill that thing. You'd Swiss cheese it, right? You'd drill 30, 40 holes, and you'd keep hole hopping until you are marking fish.

Now with this LiveScope, you put this transducer down, you drill one hole and I can scan effectively a hundred feet or more in any direction around me. So I just save myself cutting 40 or 50 holes. And as well, you can see if those fish are moving. So when Steve and I were fishing yesterday, we had the transducer between us and we had a warning before the fish came in. A long warning. Yeah, a long warning. So it's like that trail camera being set up sending you a picture before it comes you know uh you're not paying attention all of a sudden you look at the live scope and see okay steve there's a fish swimming

towards you 10 feet away and uh you can see the size of the fish it's mood it's mood and how it reacts there's a graph on there that you can measure it how big the fish are and that's that's that's one of the coolest parts because like normally you get nervous when you're marking a fish but when you can tell it's a three foot fish or whatever it might be a 30 inch walleye it's like it gets your heart pounding in a different oh you can see it's mood man yeah you use like when they're on the bottom like slithering along then you can see what it likes yep Yep. So you're sitting there and a fish comes and he gets like, it gets the perspective that he's right below your stuff. And you jig it and raise it and he follows it and gets excited.

And then you raise a little more and he keeps following it. And you do it again and he hits. Yeah. And you like tease him into hitting. You can try things on him. You can take his mood. I'm going to drop it down and shake it yeah and you like tease him into hitting um you can try things on him you can take his mood i'm gonna drop it down and shake it in the mud yeah doesn't care i'm gonna do this oh he's getting interested i'm gonna increase wham hook him it's it's a scary tool and i've i've kind of compared it to what drones is to hunting and and because there's just no hiding anymore

you know yeah the fish can't hide. And you, and I mean, my favorite part of LiveScope is, is the learning tool that it is because now I can see, oh, those crappies spooked. I caught one out of the school and the other 15 spooked away, or I knelt down a little bit loud in shallow water and I saw the fish spook away. And it's like, that's my favorite. Obviously it's cool to see the fish eat, but you learn more about the biology and their general mood characteristics. But it turns into a lot of gear. Like,

like you said, the spearing is super primitive and now you're staring at a screen all day. So it's like we, we go fishing to get away from screens yet you and I are sitting in the shack staring at a screen. So I, I can see how some people don't like that. Like I definitely get a lot of comments on my videos like,

hey, you're not even fishing anymore. And it's like, well, I want to take advantage of it. I wouldn't say that. That's hard for me because you know, you use it, but you know 20x the information that I would i would say that after having hanging out with you for a few days you you know 20 times more about fish and fishing than your average fisherman thank you so if you were like dude i don't know what kind of fish that is i don't know how to tell you not but you're out there just slaying it winds up up being like, you know a bunch about fish.

You know a bunch about fishing. You're probably going to catch a bunch of fish no matter what, and you use that. A lot of that stuff goes that way. It's like the same thing. The guy who's diligently running a bunch of trail cams is probably a pretty dedicated hunter. You always think that it's going to wind up being that technologies

are going to wind up being that any old Joe Blow can go do X, and maybe that's the case, but I haven't seen a ton of evidence toward it because I've generally seen that people that are already obsessed become early adopters on new stuff. And they were the ones kicking ass before, and they're kicking ass now. I think you're probably underselling yourself after watching you fish. I don't know what the hell the temperature was. I don't know. We're out fishing. I don't know what the hell the temperature was.

I don't know. We've been out in temperatures. The lowest I've seen is negative 29. The highest I've seen is four. Every time we were fishing, it was in the negatives. What were wind gusts yesterday? It was like sustained winds of 30 miles an hour? With gusts over 50.

Yeah. The wind chill was 47 below. We moved four times last night. Yet. The wind chill was 47 below. We moved four times last night. Yeah. So that's not comfortable. No. With a shack and a heater, it's manageable. Yeah, but I'm saying like you're still moving.

Yeah. So there's still like a level of ambition. Like you put that thing down and we don't catch any fish, we don't mark any fish, and we move. But it was about like if you were were fishing normally without electronics that's about when you would have moved if you didn't get a hit and it what it does it's like i don't know you might be overestimating it's like you might overestimate the impact because i think that what it does is it's you'd probably go through a lot of the same activities yeah you'd probably like go to an area. You'd probably try the same baits. You'd try the same tackles. You'd try to, uh, similar strategy, but there'd be more of a mystery.

Like you wouldn't know that fish were down, but you'd know you weren't getting hits. It speeds up. It speeds up the search. But like, you know, when you go to your initial spot, you still need to know why the fish are going to be there. Right. You need to have that initial understanding of fish biology and being like, oh walleyes are going to be on deep rocks let's go check deep rocks the live scope confirms confirms or denies that they're there and then you move on so yeah the thing i learned when i first started messing around with electronics and ice fishing um beyond

like a flasher but but putting lowering the camera down which caused me to have all kinds of other guilty feelings putting a camera down i learned more about in the first couple days i fished with the camera down the hole i learned more about the way fish behave in the winter than i did from 45 years of ice fishing yeah which is that i used to picture when you um were fishing and not getting fish it was that you weren't on fish or they were turned off yeah and they were just like laying somewhere i didn't know that all day there are fish coming out of curiosity to come look at basically kiss your thing and move on but come in like no motivation of hunger it's like they come and they're like oh that's what that is and stare at it leave and come and stare at it and leave and come and stare at it and leave and come and stare and it's not always

little fish i've seen big fish do the same thing if you're banging the bottom they in the silts coming up that they come and nose around in that silt but don't eat anything oh i've i've played with the fish for 10-15 minutes before getting them to eat it's like why did it take him that long to eat the juicy minnow in front of his face i had like that changed then it became in my mind what i used to think was they're not around or they're somewhere else they're laying low there's sort of like this middle area where they're very active moving all around and are not going to eat but they're very interested in that. Yeah.

They want to know what's going on. They want to know what that noise was. They want to know what that movement was. And then there's like a competitive aspect. They have like a little bit of a, they're like a little bit like kids where one of them doesn't want something, but when someone else wants it,

they also decide that they want it. Yeah. Like he'll stare at it. With panfish. Yeah, he he'll stare at his buddy he'll show up and then he eats it we see that in the you know open water a lot with smallmouth but uh ice fishing you see a lot of panfish with bluegills or crappies you can get that school fired up and it's a lot of fun yeah then they get like well i don't want it but I want him to have it. Frenzy. Yeah. So let me ask you this.

Do you walleye fish and tournament fish with LiveScope? Yes. How many do you got? You got two on your boat at all times? No, I only have one. Okay, let me ask you guys this. If, you got to be totally honest, let's say all of a sudden your local government not your the fishing game agency says all right that's it no live scope all done illegal would you breathe

a sigh of relief or would you be like oh man i'd i'd be i'd be pretty mad oh you would yeah you wouldn't breathe the sigh of relief no i want to learn as much as fish like as much as possible of fish and that's why i got into scuba diving because i want to see them underwater and short of strapping the scuba gear on the live scope is like when you see that fish relating exactly to that boulder it's it's a pretty cool deal because that's what you visualize but then you actually see it and it verifies what you've been thinking. I think you'd be all right with it. I mean, honestly, because it's such new technology. You'd be like, yeah, whatever.

Correct. And right now we're actually already seeing it on the tournament side. So there's an ice circuit in Minnesota and they have outlawed the use of LiveScope during those tournaments. Yep. No go. You know what? You know, one thing about it would be like,

let's say you're having a, ice fishing is a blue collar pursuit, right? It just is, right? It's a blue collar pursuit. And then if you're having like local derbies and like the dude that can, through connections or just from having cash, the guy that can throw down five grand on a live scope.

Yeah. Other people might be like, well, how do I keep up with that, man? Yeah. I'm out here with an axe and a cut down Zebco. The tip of a Zebco rod with a reel taped to the ferrule. No, I get that. I get that. Manny's like, whatever. She can live without it. She, I get that. I get that. Manny's like, whatever.

She can live without it. She'll still catch fish. Jay's like, no, no, no. It's not about catching fish. It's about learning about fish. Which I, like, there's an element of truth in that. There's also a little bit of fish catching in there. Oh, yeah. Don't come to me and act like it's not about catching fish.

The learning's nice. The catching's nice, too. Seth just me and act like it's not about catching fish. The learning's nice. The catching's nice, too. Yes. Seth just likes every aspect of it. He loves free gear. Yeah. No, he's got no free life scope. So you're saying, like, you just, like, you love it.

Oh, if I had the money, I would go right now and buy it. One of the things I've found, and this is something I like about Seth a lot. A lot of people mistake jealousy for something else. They mistake jealousy for moral superiority. So they'll see a LiveScope setup. And what's going on deep in their psyche is they want one, but they don't have that kind of jingle laying around. So what they do in their mind then is they do a thing where they disapprove of it.

Yep. I feel that. They disapprove of it like, oh, you shouldn't be able to have that. But what's really going on is they're like, fuck, I kind of wish I had one of those. But their body is, their brain is helping itself out giving them a sense of moral superiority which is feels for some people feels good jealousy feels bad i have one of my kids my kids have a book about jealousy and they describe jealousy the book describes jealousy as a hot prickly feeling seth is such a pure individual listen let me tell you yeah you tell this guy something to tell him not to tell anyone

you couldn't waterboard it out of him um anyways he sees one he wants it and he just says he wants one. Yeah. There you go. I do. He doesn't act like he's got any kind of moral dilemma. I'm in the same boat with Seth. I want one real bad. But I want to – In fact, I think it would be accurate to say I lost one. But one point that I think of when it comes to that

is over the past few years i've gotten really good with the technology that i have right so like down imaging side imaging and being able to look on down imaging and be like pretty sure that's a walleye just by the way you know or like the size of the fish compared to what you're seeing on the screen um so like if they took live scope and outlawed it right now i'd be like the playing field would be a little more level because we still have to you have to put some time in to get good at these live shows. That's why I opposed the internet when it came out because I was good at looking up stuff in the library

and I could smoke anybody in the library. And then they made the internet and then now any Tom, Dick, and Harry can go find out stuff and I used to have a competitive advantage. Yeah. I mean, Seth could probably take better pictures with his phone than most people with high-end cameras.

You got to spend a lot of hours figuring it out. It's a learning curve. It's not a plug and play. You got to figure it out. I know, man. It's like this kind of stuff keeps me up at night. Me too. You know what I want to point out?

I know how to close this out. This trip, I was catching, we sat down. Granted, I had nothing to do with picking the spots. Nothing to do with picking the spots. Okay? But I was catching fish before you guys had the electronics hooked up. You were. You sat down in that first seat.

But I didn't pick the spots. No. Someone's just like, here, fish this hole. Steve's roping him as I'm trying to get the transducer to work. He did that to all three of us, just like the other night. I don't know Steve well enough to give him grief right away, but when you're on a fishing trip and your buddy starts

casting before things are ready, it's like, dude, slow down. Especially when the cameras aren't rolling, that's my pet peeve. When I'm filming with somebody and I'm like, okay, I don't care what you do today, just wait until we get the camera set up and then just like, my wife hooks a fish right aways and I'm just like, Sam, you could have just waited

like a minute. But I can't be mad she caught a fish, right? And then she's got to pretend to be excited about the second one but you can never quite pretend that well. Yeah, I got you. I had some other thought I was going to add

about this whole deal. The weather and everything breaking. Yeah, it was beautiful. Oh, yeah, all that stuff. But I mean, more about that. Yeah.

I sure enjoyed it, man. Thanks for coming. I enjoyed looking through that stuff. It was a good time? And I enjoyed know i enjoyed fishing you guys sharing a shack sharing some hook sets yeah mandy fish with yanni oh i don't know i was gonna add did you like fishing with yanni that's a loaded question no no dude i i did love it but like somebody that just i i truly felt like to his core, he did not have a good time.

He did not like the cold weather. Like he, I think he liked the experience and like it was kind of, it was so out of his wheelhouse. It seemed so foreign to him that he was just like, you guys are just insane. Right? He's not like a born, he's not a born and bred ice angler. Yeah. He's just like, you, you seriously do this for fun. Like, this is like a cultural thing where you live where people do this as a pastime and i'm

like yeah like why wouldn't you like i don't understand why you're not like excited and like see this but i forget that it is a cultural thing you know for for where you grow up or how you grow up with what kind of outdoor activities that are just part of everyday life so yeah i know he was a hoot it was cool to have him to the house and the whole crew and a really cool experience uh i know i was gonna add a perspective that callahan had about technology and ice fishing yeah and he's not opposed to it right um and if someone was gonna be it'd probably be him but he's not he had a perspective like what happens to the psychology of an angler where he says you could be ice fishing and having a perfectly good time. But then someone shows up with more, like someone shows up and sets up next to you with more electronics.

And Cal says, the feeling you then get is oh now we're fucked like he said somehow makes him feel like like it makes him feel like he's not doing you know that he's like doesn't know something or is not doing something right or now this person is going to catch all the fish and he's not proposing that as some as anyone else's problem but his own he's just commenting on his own psychology that it'd be like when someone has that, then he's like, well, now I'm screwed. The key is to never fish with that technology. Now that you've fished with it, you're screwed. If you'd never fished with it before, you know,

you maybe see clips online, but once you actually experience it, I know that people that have sat in my shack or sat in my boat, it's like they've dropped that money afterwards, and I'm guilty of causing that. Separating Americans or Canadians from their money. Yeah. I'm sure Garvin likes it when you do that. What's Ice Fish MB mean? That is one of my biggest partners that's Ice Fishing Manitoba that's their tourism brand so shout out Ice Fish MB, Hunt Fish

Manitoba. I'm just saying, of plugs I'm going to send Jay an invoice Alright here's the final plug We're going to go fry up some Some catch and cook walleye We're going to fry up some fish and we're going to put catch and cook on there There you go catchcook.net Tell people how to find you guys You can go first

If you want to find me on YouTube Jay Siemens Canadian Angle Canadian Angle on YouTube, jseamans, J-A-Y-S-I-E-M-E-N-S. Better yet, Canadian Angle. Come on. Canadian Angle on YouTube. We got both rolling. Season two dropping now. And if you want to buy some fish breading,

catchcook.net. There you go. Easy peasy. And a real nice folding fillet knife. Yeah. You guys selling those like hotcakes. Yeah, they're selling pretty good. Folding fillet knife.

Really nice job on that. Thank you. Thank you. Those are kind of a pain in the ass, but it's like you don't need to have the sheath. You can put it in your pocket without cutting a hole in your leg. Folding fillet knife. Really nice job on that. Thank you. Those are kind of a pain in the ass, but it's like, you don't need to have the sheath, you can put it in your pocket without cutting a hole in your leg. Folding filet knife. High quality knife. Beautiful craftsmanship.

Thank you, Steve. Yeah. Real nice knife. I got one for free. But you know what? I would have bought that son of a bitch, man. I appreciate it. I would have given you a discount code. Mandy, how do people find you? They can find me on Instagram. I don't have any crazy names like everybody else.

I just left it as Mandy Urich. So they can find me on... Just old school. Yeah, super old school. Spell it out. I still even have a Hotmail account. Oh, good. That's M-A-N-D-Y-U-H-R-I-C-H.

I've got my pro account and my personal account on Facebook, or they can find me on Instagram. Will you accept them on both accounts or just on the pro account? Just on the pro account. And I will say this. So like Joe Blow who wants to come and be like your buddy, you might not accept them on your personal account?

Correct. My personal account's full. It literally is full. I'm maxed out. I will say I've been struggling with Facebook because there's actually a full account they used my photos it's my name and it's they say that i'm from south dakota and facebook will not take it down like they will not take that account down and it's my it's my picture like my like everything and they won't take it down so i've almost considered just kind of deleting

everything off there and just going to instagram let's get everyone to report it everyone's listening to the podcast report the fake account yes they're actually gonna report the real account and your real account's gonna get pulled correct look for the one that says that i'm from south dakota i am not from south dakota that's the bad one that's the bad one report that one but don't join it correct don't don't go to that one. That's not. Who's doing that? I don't know. And the worst part is they've got a lot of people on there. I just don't understand.

It's really frustrating. That's weird to find that person and kick them in the little berries. Thanks, Steve. All right, everybody. Get the oil. We're doing it. Get it hot. We're going to replace the smell of a thawing out Northern with the smell of

hot grease. There you go. Thanks everybody. Thank you. Thanks Steve. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada.

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