The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 315: On a Prayer with Michael Waddell

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

Steven Rinella talks with Michael Waddell, Ryan Callaghan, Brody Henderson, Spencer Neuharth, Seth Morris, Phil Taylor, and Corinne Schneider.Topics discussed: tiddlers and winkers; the real meaning of "whistling dixie"; Mike Waddell, pecan farmer; data points to consider regarding ice fishing and prositution; Captain Cook and Captain Hook; a squirrel's nut and chatter score; the yew plant being pretty for landscaping but deadly for elk; when a moose ravages your sled dog team; when winning a turkey calling contest changes your life and you become a Bone Collector; learning how to edit hunting videos; how you shouldn't be embarrassed to be country as hell; Mike's encouragement to go after your dreams; T-Bone and the ‘ole leg lamp; pecan finished charcuterie; back to the land with Claudine; goat milk on your Froot Loops; the double enjoyment you derive from burping up fries; and more. Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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First Light. Go farther, stay longer. Phil, start the machine up. The machine has started. Now explain this again. Explain the sentence he used when you were turkey hunting. He said... This is Michael Waddell, the pecan farmer. I made a comment to a great friend of mine

actually from Wisconsin who's in Montana. He's an outfitter now. And he says... And I make a comment to one of our producers. I say, hey, buddy, you need to, let's roll. I said, this ain't tiddlywinks. We got to get out there in the snow and get a turkey. And the outfitter jumps up, a big brawny guy. Now this guy's probably 260, big, big brawny shoulder guy.

Looks like he should have played NFL. And he said, don't make fun of tiddlywinks. And I'm like, man, what are you talking about? He said, I'm a world champion. Right. You're like the child's game, tiddlywinks. Tidd'm like, man, what are you talking about? He said, I'm a world champion. Right, you're like the child's game, tiddlywinks. Tiddlywinks. I didn't even know there was a game. There's a tiddler and a winker?

There's a tiddlier and a winker. That's something you go to jail for. I don't even know in today's society if you can say somebody's a tiddlier no more. But what is the game? It's like he brings out his wife. Go to the closet, Gertrude, and get the – he brings out a piece of felt, and it looks like a board, and it's got these little plastic things. And he's dink, dink with his hand, and he takes another piece of plastic that's in there, and he's winking it or tiddling it. So anyway, my whole life.

And they beat some French guys at it. Yeah, he said he's a world champion. He said, yeah, we had these French guys come in and we just throttled them, roasted them, go back to France, ate some French fries. No, I'm glad to hear that the Americans bested the French at that. I didn't know it was a thing. I didn't know we had world champions in Montana. I got to confess something to you.

We use the same. I stole it from a movie, I think. This is going to be horrible to you. Because we'll say, are we here to turkey hunt or whistle Dixie? That's right. But I don't know what the hell, where that comes from. It's a movie. There's like a Western or something.

A la Josie Wales. Oh, is that what it is? Oh, yeah. What's the context? Does that mean you're lying? No, it's like, are you here to throw down? Like, do you want to get serious or you want to

whistle Dixie? Oh, because he was, he was from the Confederacy. Yes. Yeah. So who says it to who? Josie,

uh, is in a, there's a potential confrontation happening, right? Yeah. And he's staring these guys down who are obviously starting to kind of second guess their oh and he says they're like do i actually want to die at the hands of clint eastwood right now exactly

definition is if you engage in unrealistic or hopeful fantasizing an example would be oh this is deeper than i thought if you think you can drive there in two hours, then you're whistling Dixie. Like they'd never best the North. Yeah. Maybe. Right, but in that movie especially, right? I don't understand because he was... You're onto something, Steve. It says, this idiom

alludes to the song Dixie and the vain hope that the Confederacy known as Dixie would win the Civil War. But Josie Wales was a Confederate soldier. Yeah, now just an outlaw. Now a turned outlaw. But he's saying, right, he's saying, you want to get serious or you want to whistle Dixie,

which then becomes a double entendre, right, because you're going to say, like, pledge allegiance to my side by whistling Dixie. Or. It's pretty deep. Because he was after the, who were the bad, the red. The red legs. Red legs. Yeah.

That's right. The red legs were the bad. But you know why that movie had a number of great lines, but the most famous line of all that overshadows all other lines in that movie is when he, uh, has a big chaw backy. That's just Seth. That means a large amount of chewing tobacco in his mouth. I know I used to do that.

Um, he spits it on a man who he's just killed. Yep. And, and, and his compatriot says to him, uh, aren't we going to bury them?

To which he replies, Cal, like the crows and the coyotes got to eat too. No, says to him, aren't we going to bury them? To which he replies, Cal? Like the crows and the coyotes got to eat too? No. Buzzards got to eat, same as worms. Oh yeah, there you go.

That's right. It's funny, I just watched this movie the other day too. For the first time? No, I've seen it a lot, but it was actually my son, he was home from college

and I was talking to him, he's 21. I said, have you ever seen Outlaw Josie Wells? He said, no. So me and my other son, two of my sons sat and watched it. Oh, that's great. I mean, it was like blown away.

What a hell of a movie. My kid would really like that. My 11-year-old, he'd be ready for Outlaw Josie Wells. He would like it, and he could watch it. I mean, it's not G-rated, but it dang sure is good from the standpoint of what all he went through. And it's a pretty deep movie. Like I said, it's deeper than just... Yeah, there's a lot there, man.

I tuned my boy into Zero Dark Thirty and forgot that it begins with a very prolonged waterboarding session. He, like... What do you think of that? He didn't finish her. Didn't finish her up. We're going to re-approach in a decade. Yeah, I would. So I'm not alone in quoting movie lines and just assume everybody around you is supposed to understand.

Like I told my wife the other day, we were sitting there eating supper, and my kid, it said he plays guitar. And he's like, let's go jam, Dad. And I said, hey, you know what? I'm calling the boys. And Christy, my wife, like, no, it's already 8 o'clock. And I said, all you got to do is put some damn chips in a bowl. You remember Sling Blade? Sling Blade.

Yeah. Oh, that was Dwight Yorke. Dwight Yorke when he's sitting there, man. He's like, you know what? That's it. I'm calling the boys. So, you know, we're going to make some music. And my wife did it perfect.

And I told her, all you got to do is throw some chips in a bowl. Okay, we got delayed introductions for Giannis Patella Sr. Michael Waddell, I understand now, pecan farmer. Pecan farmer. Once upon a time, outdoor personality. I used to work in the hunting space. Now I'm on a farm. Now you work in the pecan space.

I got overalls typically on, sit in a cafe a cafe drink coffee and talk about my crop yep so uh cal was asking you you guys i grew up pecan i don't know why right you guys grew up pecan no i actually to be honest with you i'm from georgia and i realized once i got into the farming that most of the farmers who make a lot of money, I asked them, I said, what do you call them? Is it a pecan or a pecan? And I had two of the biggest pecan farmers in Georgia said, it's pecan, boy. And I said, well, how much did you do last year? One guy named Joey Collins, who's a good friend of mine, he's been my mentor. He said, well, we did about, I don't know, three or four million pounds last year of pecans. And I said, so that's $2 a pound.

I'm trying to do the math. So I'm thinking, okay, he's a wealthy guy. I said, I think I got pecans. I don't know if I got pecans anymore. I got pecans just like y'all. And so he happens to be the guy who buys my pecans. So it's always up in the air. But I'm following the money, man.

I'm going like Lil Wayne and Jay-Z. I'm calling it what they would call it. And I think they would call it PK in under the situation. So you had – did you buy an existing orchard, or did you try to start one? No, I did. I bought an existing orchard. So my wife and I had a farm out in Kansas that I had bought just for an investment in the hunt, and loved that state, loved the resources there. And so I ended up selling it. And so I kind of wanted a place around my house in Georgia. And of course, land's a lot more expensive there

than it even is out in Kansas. And so there was a track of land I was looking at, at the time, it was about 200 acres. And anyway, and I got to looking at it and said, man, this is an old pecan orchard. And I knew nothing about it other than the fact I love pecan pie, you know. So I got to cleaning it up and my wife was dead against it because it looked terrible. It was grown up and it just decrepit old grown up orchard. Like not being harvested. Not being harvested. They had been planted back in our area.

There's a family called the Calloways that were very much like the Vanderbilts or the Rockefellers, very successful back in the Great Depression, even going back to the 1900s. And they had at one time around 30,000, 40,000 acres. So they had planted these trees back in the 40s. So they're very, very old. And so we cleaned the orchard up, and we just wanted to homestead there and build a house, and that's where we wanted to live. And so in the process of cleaning it up, and me and my dad just bush hogging

and working and getting a skid steer with a mulching head and just cleaning it up, making it look nice, you could tell at that point we had, you know, a lot of healthy pecan trees. And so then I started calling around. And like you and all of us here, we meet so many people across the country. And down south in Georgia, Georgia might be, somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I know it's one of the top producers of pecans. I know Texas is big, Oklahoma, but Georgia might be the number one. And so obviously there

was a lot of knowledge just south of me. So ended up of all people, Luke Bryan, who's a, you know, a huge star now, his dad is one of the leading kind of guys in chemical and fertilizer. And he's got, he's, you know, down south, we still got a lot of cotton, a lot of peanuts and things like that, even some tobacco and stuff like that. And so anyway, I talked to him and he got me on the right track. And then I had another buddy, a turkey hunter with a lot down in South Georgia who was a big farmer. And so got on the right track and we started making a crop.

However, I could have bought another bigger farm in Kentucky for what I put in equipment. So I'm still trying to see a profit. But anyway, at least I can truly have a gate card and have fun. The fewer nuts you produce, the fancier your packaging has to be. I think you're right. That's right. Because you're going to do like artisan. Yeah, you got to have a story.

I know. There's only six nuts in this bag. Exactly. Look at my hat, though. It's so cool, you know. Yeah, I'm learning. And it's so frustrating, man. I learn a lot, you know.

And obviously growing up, you know, hunting and fishing, I'd always be in food plots and planting and trying to put back, you know, to the resources that we like to hunt. But I just realized there's a whole other game when you're trying to produce a crop, especially for the community. And I found out, too, that most of our crop of pecan goes to Asia, I guess. They go everywhere. And so it was a learning

curve say the least you know the squirrels like that lord let me just tell you something i got squirrels each i'll come to my house i got it i was just telling corinne i i just got my little boy a little squirrel dog i went out to missouri and bought him a little squirrel dog and uh and dude i've had more fun with that dog especially around the edges of that orchard because it's just a paletra it's like a state park you know they're out there trying to get these pecans so it's so you're in that stage of life where you can pretty much do whatever you want as long as you say it's for the boys you're like yeah gotta watch out a lot juicy whales i am got it i am in that stage trying to work i've tried to work some things are more important

i am and it's funny i i've met a lot of people over the years that's a funny subject because i you know over the span of my career you meet a lot of people but i remember at different shows like he and i met years ago yeah well yeah it started out where what you showed uh i showed mr waddell a picture you and him i showed michael a picture of it was me, Michael, Nick Mott, and T-Bone at the Harrisburg Great American Outdoor Show. I think I was like 16 or 17

years old. You could have made him feel really awkward by acting disappointed that he didn't remember. Well, I think that's why he didn't bring in the framed copy on his phone. Oh, you don't recognize me? I looked a lot different back then. you did look a lot different yeah but i remember going to these shows and you have somebody come by steven i'm sure you've seen this happen like a young couple and they have a kid and maybe a two-year-old son and they'll have

a brand new hoyt bow or a set of clothing that is just insane. I'm like, man, you're going to really enjoy that. You're going to love that new bow. That's a new RX-5. What are you going to love? No, it ain't for me. Love this kid. He changed my life. He's two.

He can't even eat milk duds alone. I'm just going to get it broken. Best payback for our ladies always finding things on sale that really wasn't on sale you know so uh oh speaking of kids that was a good transition um doug durin heard my spirited um gripe with skiing which i'll have to point out i'm only mad about skiing because my wife enrolled my kids in nine consecutive saturdays of ski club which means there's nine saturdays that you can't ice fish. Every Saturday when I want to ice fish, she goes, well, I already paid.

And I was griping that I didn't have anyone to pay to go ice fishing. So I can't use like a similar, there's no one to pay. And I was like, I'm going to find a way next year to pay for like 30 days of ice fishing. And I'd be like, I already paid. Sorry. You can pay me. They're going to have to go.

And that somehow spiraled into you getting mad at the phenomenon of gravity itself. Then I got mad about gravity and skiing. Now, Doug Duren heard this and sent my wife a big text, like this heartfelt text message about he never skied, then he moved to New Hampshire and learned to ski and how great it is that she, this and that. And she shows me the text, but her reply is, Steve can suck it. I'm tweeting right now.

Skiing took Sonny Bono as well as ice fishing. So that could be our new t-shirt. Oh, here's another ice fishing thing phil okay you're you ready to play this clip phil yeah i just learned today now my agent who has ice fished one time in his life unsuccessfully i'll point out that i was his guide uh sent me this ice fishing article and i learned that everybody already knows about the ice fishing article yeah you can't miss but i knows about the ice fishing article. Yeah, you can't miss it. But I'm trusting that someone out there doesn't know about it. You're looking at him right here.

Oh, so he doesn't know about it. Oh, would you agree with this statement? Okay. Would you agree? I have a friend from central southern Illinois who likes to think he's from the south. Right. I was saying to him, if you live in a state where ice fishing occurs, you are not in the South. Is that fair?

That's true. And that's where Abraham Lincoln was born. He can't claim to be a rebel. That's what I told him. I said, land of Lincoln, and they ice fish there. There's like two things. Dude, it's funny. I have a friend, Mike Scobie, who lives here in Bozeman.

He sends me videos of his kids ice skating. And my kids are more intrigued to look at those videos than they would be if something to Walt Disney. I mean, it's like a unicorn's going to come running across. And you're right. It's because in my life, I'm 48 now, I've never in my life seen a frozen lake or even a pond in Georgia. Not once.

I'm talking about not even, I mean, you might see some ice on the edge. It'll get 20. Did you guys get? I hope Stu Miller's listening right now. A little bit of snow, though? Yeah, we'll get a little bit of snow. And let me just tell y'all, when y'all see the forecast, go ahead. Y'all welcome to come stay at my house because it's the most entertaining thing you've ever seen.

Every redneck, we got car hoods and makeshift sleds because you can't go to the local sporting store and buy a toboggan, right? And dude, it is. You got to unbolt your hood. No milk, no bread, no gasoline. Everybody's barbecuing. It is a party. You'll think Elvis has come back from the grave.

It's that fun, and I'm not lying. So this town, Phil's going to play this clip. This town in Ohio has the thing where they're trying to get ice fishing to be allowed at a local park. And they have a mayor who has a very spirited argument about why the slippery slope that would occur should you be able to start ice fishing at the park. Well, this pond, in the years past, you can ice fish it. And then all of a sudden, they just threw a sign up that says you can't. It'd be like when the pandemic started and Washington State said you can't fish it. And then all of a sudden they just threw a sign up that says you can't. It'd be like when the pandemic started in Washington state said you can't fish.

Yeah. That's funny. I mean. You can golf, you can't fish. Yeah. I think instead of spirited, I think it puts it in a better perspective to say logical. Yeah.

Explanation of why you can't ice fish. And it lets people understand that uh there's a lot of different forms of logic out there yeah all right let it rip phil i want to hear it too just because i can have another chuckle additionally if you open this up to ice fishing while on the surface it sounds good then what happens next year does someone come back and say i want an ice shanty on Hudson Springs Park for X amount of time? And if you then allow ice fishing with shanties, then that leads to another problem. Prostitution.

Hey, I was not ready for that. Just data points to consider. Just data points to consider. Just data points to consider. He's like, I rest my case. Just data. These are data points to consider. This is like a Saturday Night Live sketch. Yeah, he's dead serious.

But this guy, see, Corinne was pointing out, this guy's got like, he's like one of those dudes that sort of rails against something, but he's got like, actually he's the one that has the problem because he had this other, he got all kinds of other trouble because he's railing about these like pornographic books being taught to kids, but then it turns out they're not being taught to kids in his school. He just like, his head just immediately goes. This dude looks at porn every night. He's got an addiction.

He just don't want to say it. This dude's head immediately goes like where it goes. But to his defense, I should have, if I was in the city council or whatever, I would raise my hand and said, that's stupid. But when I was in high school, kids that didn't have like – if you had kids that you could go down in your basement with your girlfriend and no one is going to come down there because your parents are going to be like, oh, I totally respect your space.

And then you had parents that are going to come down there every three seconds. Anybody want some popcorn? Right? The kids that could not have privacy, them and their girlfriends took up ice fishing. Yeah. You like drag a big shanty out on the ice, be like, oh, you know, me and Susie are going ice fishing.

Was that you? No one ever questions it. I'm not saying. Just saying. It was a thing that happened. You took up ice fishing. Ice fishing again, huh? And from there, a prostitution ring starts.

Like, I'm not falling. Well, that's why I said I would have raised my hand. They're just data points to consider. I would have raised my hand and said, that is stupid. However, it does make me think of this. There was an article on the, it was supposed to be on the psychology of trophy hunting. Mm-hmm. Right? And you start reading this article and immediately you're like, well, this is just an anti-hunting

article in general. Masquerading as something. Yes. Yeah. But, you know, you're almost done at that point. And the second to last paragraph, it says, now, it's important to note that none of the data, the testing involved in this article was performed on actual trophy hunters. So it is not relevant. However, if you have the opinion that you do not like trophy hunting, it can be relevant.

That is confusing. Right. Just yet. And I'm like, oh, okay. Like, I lay all this out for you because if you want it to be supportive, even though it is factless and baseless, you can use this to support your argument. Maybe like if I came to you and I was like, I'm use this to support your argument. Maybe like if I came to you and I was like, I'm doing some research on prostitution.

If you were a prostitute, would you? Exactly. I'd be like, well. Then I'd publish my results. That's interesting. But I do have this now many, many published video of this city councilman or mayor and that's the fact that I'm gonna use mm-hmm this guy's a mayor yeah it is odd though I did go to International Falls one time to fish and I met Bill Cosby Harvey Weinstein there

and it makes me wonder what's going on Charlie Is that Charlie Sheen? You knock on the shanty door and they come out. What are you guys doing here? Yeah, that's the first time I ever saw Charlie standing inside one of those ice shanties holding that fastball. Remember that baseball? I'm like, Charlie, what you ice fishing? No. You didn't hear the mayor? I got it. What's your wall tent?

Montana canvas. Dude, I went down to have a, I don't want to say what I did Because I had a They're not looking for custom projects I'm just pointing this out I had a custom project done at Montana canvas And those are the nicest dudes on the planet

Very helpful dudes Nicest dudes on the planet If you're in the market They make wall tents Of many varieties If you're in the market for a wall tent I would go down there You go into that place

I didn't know You you drive by it all the time because it's on the highway. Man, they got a million people in there stitching away, making them right there. When I went there to pick up that wall tent, there was like five dudes that came out and were like, let me help you load this. Really? Nicest guys on the planet.

Yep. I never touched the box. Making beautiful wall tents. I liked them so damn much, I want to buy one of their wall tents. I keep them in the catalog on my workbench. I spend a lot of days of mine every year. No one needs to comment on this, but one day I got real mad at those SpaceX, those Starlink satellites, because they kind of messed up the whole night sky for a long time.

Like you'd be sitting there turkey hunting, trying to watch the stars. And you see these damn things. That's the first time I saw them. I was sitting around a campfire, a turkey camp out in Eastern Montana. And I thought the world was ending. Yeah. I looked up and saw that. You know what I'm glad about?

A solar storm killed 40 out of 49 of them. Whoa. $100 million of damage. Now they're going to like fall back fall back and burn up in the atmosphere. This time when they're messing up the night sky, I'll be like, nah. It'll be like a meteor shower. $100 million worth of satellites burning up as they reenter orbit. Full of rare earth minerals.

What was that? Have you seen that Don't Look Up? Oh, no, I haven't. I haven't seen that. That's pretty good. Oh, it's good. It's pretty good. I saw those, but I was drinking bourbon that night, and I wasn't sure.

I thought it was a firework show. I wasn't sure. Expensive fireworks. All the stars were moving. Yeah, exactly. This is going to be something we're going to have to come back to later, because Corinne's not sure if it happened or not yet. You know he's had Hampton Sides on, and he's working on a book about Captain Cook?

Yes. They might have found his ship. I didn't know it was missing. But they might have found his ship. Did you know it was missing? Captain Cook's ship? Is that the... I didn't. The Endeavor. No, he was like... No, you're thinking Captain Hook. No, I'm thinking...

I'm thinking the one where the pirates are protecting the ship. What was that one that was on? Yeah, and the kid's got the pixie dust and flies around. Yeah, I've seen that too. Michael's like, no, I met that guy. Yeah, I remember Dr. Hook. Captain Cook.

Captain Cook was, I don't know what happened to him. Like, this thing is, I just know that he gets killed in Hawaii, stabbed in the surf. But I never thought about what happened to his ship after that But apparently it goes missing So this is way way back I don't know what the hell year did Captain Cook What year did Captain Cook get killed? We gotta clear a few things up

Dr. Hook had a I know them Travel and medicine show Great band Captain Hook is a fictional captain. I did meet him at Disney World. He's never got older. He's still doing good.

Still looking the same. But we're talking about Captain Cook, who was, I guess, like, the national hero, right? For England and discovered all these new lands, including the Sandwich Island Islands, which is the island chain of Hawaii. I always screw that up. Yeah. I keep learning that and forgetting it.

Yeah. It's a funny one. Yeah. Like when you see a reference to the Sandwich Islands in history, that's what they're talking about. But Captain cook's journey ended there in hawaii and then his ship and crew continued on uh i didn't under was it scuttled

did they lose it in a in a storm i didn't understand that it was lost i i thought maybe it was purposely sunk out there. From an article in The Guardian, it says it was scuttled in Newport Harbor by British forces in 1778 during the American War of Independence. That's right. Blocked the harbor. But why are the Australians mad then? They're just mad they're still wearing masks. I think right now.

I think that's their personal opinion. I would be listen this okay like you know it's like a joint group working on recovering bits and pieces and saying for sure this is the endeavor even though there's a bunch of ships scuttled out there got it um the reason that the australian national maritime Maritime Museum is in a beef over this thing is because even though they're a joint group, they came out and they said, this is for sure the endeavor. Even though the joint group is pretty sure, but others in the group are saying, we still got a little discovery. They thought the Aussies jumped the gun on the whole thing. Yeah.

Can you tell I didn't read the article? It's not obvious, is it? And I correct myself. The Aussie people are not aggravated. I'm sure it's their government still frustrated about something. Oh, man. Yeah. Oh, this is good.

This is a joke, right? Yeah. We're talking about how to score a squirrel, Boone and Crockett, how to get a Boone and Crockett score off a squirrel, and a guy wrote in a little diagram showing how to score it. Are you serious? He says he found it years ago.

So it's length of a buck squirrel, forehead to tip of tail, length of head behind the ears to the tip of the nose. Testicular circumference. Come on now. A plus B plus C equals your squirrel's nut and chatter score. Now, here's my issue with the C score.

You don't think this is a good way of doing it? Well, as we've discussed. Might be where pecan came from. Michael, have you ever heard that some squirrels will bite the nuts off of other squirrels? Oh, here we go. Oh, you know about this? I have heard that. Oh, yeah, I have heard that.

That castrate, you know, out of dominance. Sure. Yeah, I've heard that. Well, here's my issue with this scoring is that it measures. He went and talked to a bunch of egghead scientists who told him that squirrels don't do that. I was going to say, I can't say I remember ever dressing a squirrel. I'm like, yep. I chewed them all.

As the squirrel doctor, John Kapowski, told us on this podcast, they don't chew the nuts off of other squirrels, but their nuts are always ascending or descending up into their abdomen. So at any point during squirrel season, you got a percentage of squirrels running around out there who don't have visible nuts to score. Not right now, because it's a squirrel rut right now. Well, not right now. That's right. But like in fall, they have their nuts up in

their abdomen for the most part. Yeah, but there's a big percentage of turkeys that don't have spurs and you like to score those things. That's a good point. Yeah, but you wouldn't like kill a whitetail in March and then be like well he's a zero because he doesn't have his antlers on it's a good point and it wouldn't be fair to score a southern man ice fishing for the first time that'd be unfair i like the rest of it but don't agree with that measure uh oh here's another news item i've heard about this before there's a there's a plant that people

plant in their yards. It's like a highly toxic to wildlife. And they just had five otherwise healthy elk died in the Wood River Valley, Cal's old stomping grounds, north of Haley in Idaho, where First Light is headquartered, someone points out, eating ornamental landscaping. The yew plant, toxic to both wildlife and pets. Blaine County issued an ordinance back in 2016 banning the planting of the yew plant because of how deadly it is to elk.

Fun fact for you, yew plants are very common ornamental plants around cemeteries, which kind of ties into the. Yeah. And you often see them with browse lines, which is alarming. They put it around cemeteries because they're

trying to sow death. No, I think it's just like a hardy thing that, you know, doesn't need a whole lot of attention. But it is common around cemeteries. Who's read about the moose that that that beat the living hell out of the sled dog team i saw that i heard i heard about it i didn't read this is an iditarod musher uh spend an hour stomping the sled dog team the musher empties her gun into the moose still keep stomping.

I saw that actually on a news app, and I can't believe I didn't read it, but the headline kind of said enough, you know. He trampled the team and then turned for us and charged us humans who sought refuge behind our machine. But unfortunately, he turned around and went back to the team and for nearly an hour continued. So that's where all those

22 bullets went when they couldn't find any. That's what she had trying to fight off the school. So I'm wondering, eventually the moose died, one of the dogs is still fighting for its life. Jeez. You know, your 22 shell comment, because you know how she closes it out.

Might've been. Carry a bigger gun. That's true. I've often thought, I said that one time, actually at the National Turkey Federation, we were talking, everybody,

I had all my friends that would come like, Hey man, what are you, you been able to get any ammo? And I'm like, I mean, I got some. And everybody,

and I'm sure this happened out here. People was like, like man i've been buying all the 22s i can and i'm like you ever thought of a 30 308 maybe 30 out of six i said that's gonna be a tough war to fight with just 22s you know when that was going on i mean it's still going on, but when like the, I don't know, with the first ammo shortage, it like, I fell to the, I became the same as everybody else. Yeah. Like your whole life, you go in and you buy like a box, you'd buy like 122 rounds. Yes. Like your whole, like for Christmas, you might get one of those little mini milk, those little milk things.

Remember the milk things? Like in your stocking, there'd be like two of those milk things. You're like, okay, there's a years' worth of.22 shells. And every order of those, about 30 shells end up in your carpet. Yes, that's right. Your mom's vacuuming. And you actually shot them. Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.

And Steve, you actually, that day, Christmas Day on through, you started shooting that ammo and enjoying it. Yeah, once we got onto those tube-fed Marlin.22s, we needed more of those things. But anyway, so then the ammo shortage comes. Then one day I'm in Cabela's, and they got a thing up that you're limited to two cases, or two cartons, whatever the hell it was. Of.22s. Bricks, yeah. Of.22 long rifles.

That was the first time I ever bought a brick. A brick. First time I ever bought a brick in my life is the minute someone told me that's as much, that like, I could only buy that many. I'm like, well, I better buy two. I still do.

I don't even know why. Never in my life did I feel compelled to buy like that volume of 22 ammo. Well, you're like me. You know, you do a lot of promotions.

So, you know, from different stores, Cabela's, Bass Pros, to independent dealers. And I catch myself, I even saw a sporting goods store downtown last night and I was thinking, I even saw a sporting goods store downtown last night and I was thinking,

I probably should go in there and see if I got some.22. I mean, it wouldn't hurt. I mean, it wouldn't hurt. I think it's hilarious that you bring up this idea, like, you used to be like, you got that

and then you immediately started shooting. It was an immediate need, immediate gratification. You enjoyed it, but now you buy it and don't want to shoot it. Yeah, it's like,

I have a serious hatred of ornamental towels. right it's like oh no those are the looking at towels the towels for you or anything right yeah and it's the same thing it's like oh no don't go cracking in the 22 shells i know i know what i can i've got four boys and so they're you know living on the farm now i mean they're they're just, I love it because they're just out and about, and they're squirrel hunting every day or shooting at cans and stuff. And I caught myself, you know, I was like, okay, hey, family meeting. All right, you little jerks. I counted.

I had 7,433 bullets, and I'm down to 7,000. Who shot them? And I caught myself like, what am I doing? What am I going to do with all these.22 shells? But we got them. So if a war can be won in America on.22 shells, nobody will mess with us. Yeah. Nobody.

You got to talk to the musher and get some feedback. Yeah. Well, this year, I mean, think of the different, all the duck hunting and running around I did. I know. I was exposed to more brands of shell manufacturers than I ever have been in my life. And that's from somebody who's been shooting a shotgun for a long, long time. I don't understand what you mean. Because more and more manufacturers were like sourced and sought out.

Oh. And being successful. Oh, you mean like the big retailers were trying to go anywhere they could go. Anywhere they could go. So yeah, from Turkey and France and Spain. So you're buying like those, what's that company, Fiocchi? Yeah, Fiocchi. Here's something interesting too on this subject that shows that it is deep, Steve,

is the fact that I get a call from Blake Shelton. It was last year. And he says, hey, Waddell, don't you work with Hornady and those guys? And I said, I do. I do. He said, man, Waddell, don't you work with Hornady and those guys? And I said, I do. I do. He said, man, I'd like to get some ammo. And so getting back to the 22s, he said, you know, he and Gwen now, Stefani, who you wouldn't think of as kind of a conservative in hunting and fishing. And she's kind of, she don't even eat meat, but yet she's super sweet, coolest girl you ever seen.

And very, like, loves to see Blake and his hunting buddies and just treated us my wife and all everybody around blake's friendship great but even she mentions shouldn't we get some bigger ammo than 22s so i'm asking blake and it's funny to know that this 22 thing is real the first thing i tell blake i said blake yeah and those guys would be glad to let you buy some i I would assume. I said, but they don't make 22s. He said, man, I got a lot of 22s. I need some 30-06 and 243. I mean, it's so funny, but it's so true.

I don't know what the – I mean, nobody had to market that round. It just, hey, we should probably get some. Matter of fact, I'm going to have to leave here in a minute. I'm going to run back down there. I know that. I want you to tell a story michael that that i'm sure you told a bunch of times um but i haven't heard it from you but i just i like it's sort of uh you know it's part of like the the legend of michael waddell

so you've gone on and have done i don't know man is it fair to say decades of outdoor media i really have you know i started when i was 18 you know working essentially at real tree through competition turkey calling and guiding so it's all i really know is this industry you know and talk tell about like how the turkey like you kind of got like your sort of genesis was a turkey calling contest correct yeah walk me through how that all went down. It was, it was crazy. Um, you know, being from the South and, uh, you know, very similar to the Northeast, you know, where you grew up in Michigan, all you guys here in Pennsylvania, it, everybody seemed to hunt and fish and it was just a natural thing. It wasn't something you just did for a hobby. It's just like,

it was a lifestyle. You didn't, it's all you knew. You just did it. I mean, you, you ate the meat, you know, you had, there was mounted deer heads in almost everybody's home. They were in our restaurants. And so it was never even a conversation of who didn't hunt and fish, just everybody did. And so growing up, you know, I started just like everybody else, squirrel, rabbit, you know, that led to deer. And then when I was around 12 or 13, the state introduced wild turkeys to our area in Georgia. And I guess we had- Oh, they had been wiped out down there? They had pretty much been wiped out.

But there was a few counties that had a decent population. But I lived in an area called Merriweather County, Georgia, and we didn't really have any turkeys. I never had seen one in my life. I didn't realize that they had to do, that they actually had to augment the population down there. They did. They did.

A lot of National Wild Turkey Federation was very involved. Now there's an organization called Turkeys for Tomorrow that's doing it, but they're, they're doing all these, you know, the most successful way they found they would net turkeys in one area in Georgia. And in some cases they might bring them in from Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania restocked a lot of the Southern states. Okay. So it was a pretty cool story of what they did, but certain areas did have a decent amount of turkeys. And so, but our area didn't. So when they introduced them, I remember my Uncle Morgan come in one day and he's like, you ain't going to believe what I saw down at the corner stand.

And I'm like, and dude, I'm like, you know, I'm like 12, like Bigfoot, you know, a panther, you know, like, you know, a liger, I mean, everything. No, a wild turkey. And it was just like a unicorn or something. And so, you you know it's like another spring goes by my dad or literally we start turkey hunting well i just fell in love with it and the first time that my dad and i went together um we were successful and we got a turkey and i just thought that it was the coolest thing ever to interact and and call and talk and

so quickly into that i started really just getting into the turkey hunters and the turkey callers and a lot of these grand national champions like the Walter Parrott from Missouri you had you know callers like Terry Rahm who were just world champions and just some of the best Paul Butzke who's from New York anyway and I just immediately I remember going to the sports shows like anywhere and I'd be like hoping I could run into one of those guys and shake their hand. And then there were all these turkey calling contests. So I just started practicing up, and a guy named Dale Rahm, right there from your area, he was just a manufacturer that built a lot of calls.

He had a lot of the Amish there in the area that were building some unbelievable box calls and stuff. And so he just kind of took me under his wing and said hey you're a pretty good caller you need to get in the contest and he sent me a box of turkey calls for free and i couldn't believe it he said but i'm only sending these because i want you to compete hey folks exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew, our northern brothers get irritated.

Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. That's right. We're always talking about OnX here on the Meat Eater Podcast. Now you guys in the Great White North can be part of it, be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function.

As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services handpicked by the OnX Hunt team. Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX Club, y'all. The first contest I ever got into was the Georgia State Championship. And I remember I was like third place. So it freaked me out.

And I'm calling against these guys that are my heroes. Like I'm intimidated to be around them. When it comes to this turkey calling world or circle and um and back then we'd go to contests even it'd be anywhere from 500 to a thousand people watching a contest you know it's kind of intriguing yeah that's great so i started doing good and really i was 17 18 and that's where i met the people at realaltree. I started meeting other people in the industry, other personalities and things like that. And that just led to actually first being a guy. I remember Bill Jordan. Realtree was based in Columbus, Georgia, which was only about an hour from where I grew up.

And so David Blanton, who was their producer, and back then they had their show on TNN, the Nashville Network. I remember that, yeah. It kind of got put away and changed paths as far as that network. And they were doing writers, so outdoor writers and media. That was the media for writing. It didn't have the TV shows and obviously not podcasts like this to get the word out and message. It was all through the writers.

And so we would have, a real tree would have these big writer hunts, and they'd have all these writers from Brad Herndon to Bubba know bubba phillips to you know laura lee dovey all these writers you know even jim shocky and people like that would would come down and turkey hunt for articles that they could turn around and sell to these publications and obviously bill getting this message about this camouflage so they invited me to help guide on some of those hunts to guide the writers to guide the writers and i just i couldn't believe it i I remember I showed up and, uh, two things I couldn't believe that one is it by my dinner at night, like Bill would buy my dinner. And I remember, you know, and then, then we would go hunting. And I remember like after the hunt, we never talked about it, but I remember David Blanton

said, Hey, I need your social security number. And I'm like, what, what did I do? I thought I got in trouble. He said, no, man, we're going to pay, we're going to pay you. And I'm like, why dude? I mean, I mean, I had a blast thought I got in trouble. He said, no, man, we're going to pay you. And I'm like, why, dude? I mean, I had a blast. You guys bought my dinner and stuff like that. And they're like, no, man, we're going to pay you $100 a day to help guide these riders, man. We appreciate it. So, dude, man, I was literally like ready to load up the truck and go to Beverly Hills.

I'm like, this is it. This is it. And through that, I just started meeting a lot of personalities that I looked up to. I remember Dale Earnhardt coming down. Oh, really? And I remember talking about Intimidate, and I had won the world championship that year. Me and a guy named Ricky Joe Bishop, we had won a two-man team scenario deal, and we won it. I don't know.

It was like $1,000 we won, and these cool world champion titles or whatever. And who was that put on by that was put on at the time by moss yolk down in birmingham alabama they had it every year and then obviously the grand nationals was put on by the national turkey federation and then they had another thing called the u.s open like some golf but it was turkey and um and so that was the ones you had three big prestigious titles and uh two of those i was able to win um in a two-man team grant championship and then the u.s opened the best ever done with sack at place and so through that i kind of met a lot of people and obviously i still love to deer hunt stuff like that but what

was so funny was is um when i look back on those days man i just like again i just thought everybody knew about these things in reality i was just in my own little bubble. And Corinne and I were talking a little bit prior to this podcast. It was just so amazing to see all the other cultures because I'd only seen this small area in the south. And I was meeting people from the northeast for the first time, getting to be buddies with Dale Rahm and Terry Rahm. And I was meeting people like Paul Butzke from Niagara Falls, New York, meeting people like Dick Kirby, who was a legend, you know, and I just, one is I

realized the different cultures and what you ate and what you saw. And then I started seeing, going to these different places, I started realizing that there was a lot of people that didn't kind of like my kind, not necessarily my kind, but just any of us who hunted and fished. And I was actually kind of just kind of tore up about it like i couldn't understand yeah i was i went to a workshop one time to learn how to edit in rockport maine huh and um really yeah rockport by who it was put on as international film and art still i don't know how they found this i thought it was kind of torture just to throw me into the but not like through like out not through like outdoor writers

association no no no this was later so yeah i kind of got ahead ahead in the story so so basically what happened was i was guiding and i started doing that and um a lot of the writers become buddies and a lot of these you know different celebrities come in they got to be friends and and one of the most intimidating things that ever happened to me early on far as kind of when you you know when you're trying to be quarterback, I guess, or you put in to be a quarterback. I remember Dale Earnhardt was down and, um, and Dale was kind of very intimidating kind of guy. And he said, uh, we had hunted together one time before and killed a Turkey. And so he gets down there and I'm, I'm 19 years old, 20, 21, maybe. And Dale gets down there and that morning before he says, Hey, I'm, I want to go with that young

world champion. And I was like, you know, I'm Michael michael you know and he's like yeah i want i'm going with you and somebody said somebody else like no i was gonna take it no i ain't going i said i know he'll get me a turkey he said boy you gonna get me a turkey you know i wasn't even mad he called me because i was like a yes or no he wants a yes or no answer run out to the truck man i gotta get dale the turkey thank god we did and so to the day he passed away in that dreadful accident daytona he had always come down and he'd want to hunt with me and david blanton and another guy named glenn garner and he just had complete confidence that we had we'd you know get a turkey and so i think for me as a young man started it started building confidence that first of all, like, man, this is fun. This is awesome. And that first place of, I'd played sports and

stuff and it led to Bill Jordan and David offered me a full-time job to work in production, to video and guide. So I never was hired to be this creative production guy. I was hired more to, in those days, just like a lot of times still in your world, Steve, you know, you have somebody that's interested in the space. It could be a celebrity. And so at that particular time, it could have been a country singer or somebody that wasn't that good, but they enjoyed it. And of course it was a good marketing platform for them in the TNN days to, for Mark Chestnut or Sammy Kershaw or Hank Williams Jr. to be on that particular TV show, especially with the connection in the day with Nashville Network

and hunting shows that come in that Sunday night block. So we'd follow a NASCAR race. Well, there'd be millions of people watching this outdoor programming. And so we would go, and a lot of times they would say, hey, we're going to send you with Michael. So they knew I wasn't like the most creative guy, but they knew I could keep things in focus, and I could kind of coach them along like, Hey, you know, push the safety off now. Hey, don't move, but you know, he's coming closer, you know? So, so I was kind of guiding

slash, you know, slash video. And, and, and so with that, I just fell in love with the job and I didn't know anything about editing. And that's when they, David Blanton said, man, we need to teach you how to edit. And at the time that was when everything was going from linear to nonlinear to digital and the Avid and all the different software. See, when you, when you said edit earlier, I thought you meant edit writing. Edit writing. Well, yeah, I, I, when it was coming to editing with me, you know, first of all, I still, I'm pretty good writing, but I had to have a really good editor because I'll write like I talk. So I don't know where to put the commas and all every time. But when it comes to video editing, they sent me to this place in Maine, Rockport, Maine. I don't know if it still happened, but they used to have these crash courses like for a week or two week courses. If you wanted to

learn how to cinematography or 16 millimeter film, or I'm sure it's changed. This was back in the early 90s but i remember going up there and they sent me to school for non-linear editing and i remember what was the biggest takeaway everything was shot on these big beta tapes and so for me my buddies couldn't believe i had access to this footage of back then the monster bucks videos and all stars of spring videos that real tree was selling in walmart stuff So I took all these masters or dub of these masters of all these hunts. So I thought I was going to be like this hero. Like I was going to show up and they ain't going to believe this young kid's got all this awesome high-res, great cameras.

Because everybody down there is working on hunting stuff. Yeah, and I'm thinking if I showed up there, you know, my buddies, you know, up with Meat Eater, like, heck yeah, we got something good. If we'd all been young learning this stuff while I show up, man, I might as well been to Antichrist. And I remember sitting in class and I told the teacher, I said, I said, man, I work for a company and I don't know how to do it. I said, I'm pretty good tape to tape. I said, but obviously this is the way things are going. And they sent me here to learn. And it was a seven day course. And I remember saying I got some unbelievable footage and they had everything was on learn and it was a seven day course and and i remember uh saying i got some unbelievable footage and they had everything was on high eight and vhs and so they were struggling

to get content to digitize into computers i said man i got some really nice stuff but you know if y'all'd like to see it and so the instructor or the professor or teacher he said i'd like to see it so i showed him he was oh my god are y'all shooting this on a bvp 90 i'm like yeah i think that's the name of it man that's a sixty thousand dollar camera i said i know man what do y'all do so he's really intrigued i said well my boss you know they they got a show on tnn and i'm just a guide slash camera guy but you know this is the stuff and i said they sent me here to learn how to edit hunts and to get better so i can obviously post and send this to TNN. You know, I said, I just, I don't know nothing about CG. I don't know the way, the right way or the code of certain things.

And we had cutaways and all this stuff. So anyway, I'm learning. Well, he shares it with the class. And I remember it was the first time ever I'd heard somebody quickly making an excuse. Like he said, look, a lot of you guys are not going to agree with this. And I'm thinking, nobody's not. I mean, come on. Like he said, look, a lot of you guys are not going to agree with this. And I'm thinking, no, nobody's not. I mean, come on. Don't these guys eat?

Don't these guys eat? You know, like for sure. You know, and anyway, sure enough, I remember a couple of girls got up and said, I stood up in the class and said, I will not have anything to do with that. And I'm like, man. And all of a sudden you want to talk about feeling like the dumb hillbilly redneck from georgia i did then because i'm like man i'm sorry you know i was like man this and finally i started getting pissed off i'm like look i'm here to do a job i said man i i got

a job mom and daddy didn't send me up here hell i'm here because i got i got a job yeah and i'm gonna learn how to edit this and i told instructor i said look if you need me to you know hang out and go catch lobster out here in the port and help with a fisherman there in the meantime, I'll come back. You can teach me how to edit this deer foot. But I got to learn how to edit these hunts. And it was one dude from Ontario that was there that stood up and he said, hey, I agree with Michael. You know, I grew up hunting and fishing and you don't understand it. And at the end of it, they made us edit this piece together from the footage that it looked like all the animals had gotten away. Because they made us edit it that way. And I was mad.

And for some reason, for some dumb reason, I'd never done any public speaking. But every night, I had just turned 21. I mean, at that point, you hadn't done public speaking. I hadn't done any public speaking at that point none and for some reason the instructor he and i i guess because i was spending a lot of one-on-one time just because i was anxious i wasn't there just i really was i wanted to come back and be able to impress david and bill and let them know hey i'm ready i can do this and at the time we had just bought and put in a studio there in Columbus, Georgia with a nonlinear system, all the hard drives, and nobody knew how to run it. Like, didn't even really know how to turn it on. Even our main editor, who actually

had worked at NASA, he had the big, you know, like a cockpit and all these machined them tape to tape and CG, and you hit this button, something flew in. So nobody knew this. This was back in their, like I said, early 90s, right when Avid come out. So I was really, really anxious to get back and say, hey, guys, I know how to turn it on. I know the basics and I can teach all this and then we can roll. And so for me, being this turkey calling guide, I was like, man, I'm finally going to have some technical prowess when I come back. So I spent a lot of time with an instructor or teacher. And so at the end

of it, each class, the whole, at the end of this school, when everybody graduated, they had had this big dinner and every night we had a mess hall. We can go in there. And there was a vegetarian line, which I'd never had seen anything like that. mean i used to go to golden corral by god you know when you're done you made that damn ice cream you know trying to tote it back and um so all it was so new man and i'm like man hey what is this like man you're in the wrong line what else this is where the you know get your little prime real brother okay but most importantly they had i just turned 21 and they had a a draft beer that you could drink free if you're 21. You could have rolling rock beer.

So I never had a rolling rock beer. Pennsylvania beer. Yeah, and I was drinking this beer. It smells a lot like cat to me. Well, I was drinking it every night. And so that last night, I know that we get to show our project. And so the instructor literally says, hey, we had a great had a great class and you want to introduce y'all. And he called all our names up. And it was a class of about 20 of us.

It was in his class. And then he says. And also, too, we're really, really cool that we had a guy that is working for an outdoor company. And so we better yet, so we want you to come introduce this project. And it's called the one that got away. So it was this footage uh from dale earnhardt to larry wysoon we hunted with a lot of biologists back then and writers and uh and i remember and he said but i'd like to get uh one of our class members uh michael waddell to come up here and talk and now i'm already got a little buzz you know i'm out there thinking man i'm eating lobsters last night i'm not ready so i up there, and I remember I got up on the mic and made the comment. I said, hey. I said, man, it's such a cool honor to be here, and thank you all for the hospitality.

I didn't know what to say, but I remember I said, but yeah, this is pretty neat to be able to edit this together. And I said, we did it with our classmates. And I said, and it's called The One That Got Away. And for some reason, I went to, and I said, I it with with our classmates and i said and uh it's called the one that got away and for some reason i went to and i said i hope y'all enjoy and then i went to step off and i stepped right back and i said but by the way every damn one of them are dead and i walked off and at this point it's so some of the ladies and girls is and one dude in particular he was so pissed they just glaring at me. I said, truth. I said, man, I didn't grow up lying. I said, this ain't Quentin Tarantino. This stuff is really dead.

This ain't fake. Were the people working on it, were they like, oh, wow, there's Dale Earnhardt? Yeah, some of them were. But they were more like appalled. And like I said, and I heard y'all talk a lot deep on that. And I love the documentary y'all put together. I text you on that. That's on Netflix.

And I thought that explained it well. Yes. Oh, my God. And I loved how, you know, you was able to interview the people that was probably on the fringe of, you know, not even understanding hunting, but forcing them to look deep. And I think sometimes us as hunters, we have to look deep and see that maybe, maybe we did grow up different and we understand it. But I think once we can help explain why we do it and how we do it and the different reasons, then it makes it clearer. And so for me, that was a huge learning experience because I didn't, I really didn't know. I honestly was completely ignorant. I wasn't dumb.

I was ignorant to the fact that I just, everybody I had met was like meeting Seth. It was like meeting you. It was like, even though we might not enjoy the same things, we still like, you know, you ice fish. Well, I catch, you call it crappie. I call it crappie. And, you know, we fish in the spring and, you know, and y'all fish on the ice but they still was this common bond and so for me i was completely like i was calling my dad and like dad you ain't gonna believe this

these folks they don't hunt they don't even like it they don't like it they don't even they they hate me i've quoted a couple times but uh a guy that comes on the show often named patrick dirkin who grew up in a community in wisconsin and he described it once uh in a piece of his writing where he said if you're not a deer hunter you share a bed with one yes of where you know of where he grew up right I know Pat he is a great guy and that is a hell of a quote I haven't heard that but that is true though that's true what do you think uh let's say that all hadn't happened to you, what do you think you would have wound up doing for a living? Honestly, I think I would have 100% I'd have been out there working with my hands. My dad was a contractor.

I'd went to heat and air school in the process of working at Realtree. So there was a part of me that I thought that what I was doing in the hunting space and guiding and getting to do and run a camera, there was a part of me because of the system I grew up in. I thought that that was almost similar to getting a guitar and moving to Nashville or going to L.A. and saying you're going to be a model and then maybe you met somebody. I didn't really think I'd make a living at it. I just knew at this particular time that I was young and had really not a lot of responsibility other than one day being independent, pay my own bills. I had went to heat and air school and learned heat and air technology. I had heard that, but I didn't know. So I thought you did that, but you were trained. Oh, so you were doing that too.

I was already working with Realtree Guide. And then after I'd started kind of a guiding and doing that stuff, I would leave and I didn't have a full-time job at Realtree. I was just guiding some during deer and turkey season, running a camera as a freelancer. Yep. So per day type of work. And then I would go back and I'd work with my dad. And then I worked full-time for over a year in heating and air. Just doing like residential or commercial stuff?

Residential, just troubleshooting, installing heating and air units. And was also a kind of a new fad where everybody was doing the refrigerant reclaiming. And so I had gotten certified in that where, you know, used to, you just cut the lines if you changed out a unit and all the Freon would go up in the atmosphere. And so that was in a process to where, you know, you was reclaiming this. And so I was, I was young and I knew how to work all that new equipment. As a matter of fact, I had a chance to help even order it for some of the, the people I were working for and tell them what was the best system. Because I'd just come from this tech school learning it. Yeah.

And I remember even that, just being young and enjoying that. And I thought that that would be what I would do. And I was always kind of driven that I wanted to try to be the best at something. And I remember thinking, I don't know if I'll always work as a heat and air guy, but maybe one day I can own my own heat and air business and work in conjunction with my dad. And my dad, you know, grew up very country and actually quit school when he was 16 and really has about a ninth grade education. And my dad was barely literate, like he still can't read and write a lot and so I'd never seen somebody work so hard in my life but I also realized that my dad just had struggle even writing checks and taking notes and stuff like that but he could build the Empire State Building

I mean he could build anything here in Bozeman so I remember early on thinking okay I got this heat and air background my dad knows all the bells and whistles how to build. So maybe I can try to be a better business person and help my dad from the parts that he was missing. And I knew I had my dad there from the work ethic of pushing me to, you know, if you had to be there at eight, my dad be out there with a light at six, you know, hammering and working. And so that's what I thought I would do. And as time went on, after about a year or two of doing this with Realtree, kind of guiding and running the camera on the side, David Blanton in 1996 offered me a full-time job to work there in the video production. And at that time, it was $18,000 a year on salary. He could have said $3,000 a year. I'm like, man, I'm working at Realtree.

Did your dad think it was frivolous or did he think it was cool? My dad was the only one who thought it was cool. I remember my grandmom in really blue collar. I mean, we were really blue collar. My family was so proud because I had the service van with my name on it. My gauges hung up in this truck. So by the system that most all of us are raised in this conservative, you made it in life that he's got a good job, you know, man, he's making $15 an hour and they

said, and they're going to get benefits and they might even have a 401k next year. I had made it like what else doing good. And I'm so proud of you. And, um, but when i did mention it to my dad my dad was like that'd be good you know he had met bill jordan he'd met real tree and he saw the the money because he was the one that would take me to these turkey calling contests when i was young and he saw that it was an industry and he saw that there was an opportunity that you if it's an industry well obviously there's work in it and so he was really the only one my uncles and my grandmama You would have thought that I'd gotten on drugs and was going to play with the doors You know like no, I'm gonna play backup bass for the doors, you know, I really thought that's what it was

I was just you know, like God he had it right you got this solid thing. Yeah He's going to Montana to put up Montana T canvas tents with Steve and what's he doing? you know, it's like, what's going on? And so, and they just couldn't fathom that you can make a living hunting and fishing. But I could never get across to them that it was more than me just hunting and fishing. It was celebrating the space. And we were selling products. And there was bows.

There were arrows. You know, in this case, there was bows they were arrows you know in this case there was camouflage and bill and his licensing program was doing exceptionally well was making vhs tapes at the time that led to dvds and producing shows and so even for me i was taking all this in real quick but it was hard for me to go and tell my family and so uh it was a big change and quickly man i i just was blown away just getting the chance to go to Las Vegas at the shot show, going to the archery trade show, these big conventions and, uh, talking to Corinne the other day, you know, I didn't know what to do with myself cause I didn't know,

should I talk like I'm talking to y'all now or should I, should I wear khakis and, you know, I, you know, relieved to see you coming in and, you know, you've been catching beavers this morning. So that made me, honestly it excited me like, okay, this is real. This is real. I got a big one, Seth. Yeah.

And so I was, you know, I didn't know. I was like, man, you know, what do I wear? And Realtree would buy you all these pants and new britches and shirts and little wool vests and stuff, you know, because we had an outfit when you go to ATA. Go to the shot show. All right, code is we're going to wear this. Everybody, we're going to wear this.

And everybody was moaning and complaining. I was like, man, they bought me some brand new L.L. Bean britches. You know, like, man, them suckers are $70 a piece. You know, I'll take, you know, and we'd have an olive and a khaki and a brown. And I thought it was the coolest. I'd be the first one. That's real professional, man. Oh, dude.

But it was awkward because I'm standing there, you know, and like I don't know. It's kind of like on Talladega Nights. I didn't know what to do with my hands. I didn't know how to come across. You know, it's literally I was smiling. I was happy. But I didn't know how to celebrate certain things. And then finally, I think the biggest turning point in my whole career was that first year.

I remember we went to a big meeting up in Nashville, Tennessee, and Viacom had just bought TNN. Honestly, I might be ignorant. I don't know if they just bought it, but Viacom might have always been a big part of the national network. But I do know that Viacom at that time owned TNN. They also owned MTV, a bunch of networks. And obviously- Yeah, who's that guy that used to run Viacom back in those days? He married like a wellness person, Kathy Fressen. What the hell is his name? I can't remember, but I remember-

Yeah, it doesn't matter. I didn't know about the inner workings, but I remember being very excited to go to this producer's meeting. And at the time, there was a lot of people that i really looked up to you know people like hank parker who had a show mark sosa who had a fishing show on the network and then really the only big networks that was celebrating hunting and fishing at that level was tnn and espn and um and so anyway i went and i was just like couldn't believe i was getting a chance to go to this to be around these peers jackie bushman uh was there which you know that phenomenon in 90s, that whole Buckmaster thing was growing. Anyway, I was just kind of flattered.

I remember I met this guy from MTV, and he was really condescending, not just to me, but he was, so you guys, y'all the Bambi killers? He was smirking. Dude, my inner just country boy, Trey, I just wanted to knock him the hell out. I remember just wanting to hit him so bad. And probably in another setting I would have, but I realized I was representing real tree. And boy, it just pissed me off. And every time I tried to talk to him, and I was eager.

I was like, dude, man, I'm a big fan at that time. Pauly Shore, remember Pauly Shore? Oh, yeah. I was like, yeah, I'm country, but I'm watching this every episode. And so I'm like, man,'m a big fan at that time paulie shore remember paulie shore oh yeah i was like yeah i'm country but i'm watching this every episode and so i'm like man what are those dudes names it's like martha something kurt loader kurt loader remember all these martha quinn yeah martha quinn kurt loader and uh total what's the dude adam that went on daily there's like a major like he was like a podcasting pioneer, right? Adam.

It was like he had the feather. I don't know. Early MTV presence. I mean, I show 120 minutes. That was a good one. And this would have been 96. Yeah, like all these people came out of there and went on to do all these different media things. They even coined their own term like VJs.

Remember that? VJs. Video jockeys. That right well i i was i was for some reason i guess what really led to a little letdown and it wasn't all the mtv crew it's just this one guy in particular i never even got his name but it was very obvious that he felt he was a little smarter and we were the redneck step children there because we were the hunters and we were the outdoorsmen and it was important to him that you knew this it was important yeah yeah and so as i got to talking to him i i i said well i said man i can tell you ain't a hunter i said but man i will tell you buddy i said if you ever come to my naked woods i said you would enjoy

what i get to do every day and i said uh and i know you got some heroes in this room but i do too and i was pointing out i want to say even babe winkum was there and i said uh and i know you got some heroes in this room but i do too and i was pointing out i want to say even babe wincumham was there and i said you know these guys right here in my world that i know i said i respect them and i said and uh i respect y'all but you might not respect me and i said but if you ever come around my woods i said you you would enjoy it and you'd be treated with great respect and uh and i think you'd away a different. And I remember it didn't really hit home. He said, oh, you know, he kind of walked away. And I remember when I said that, it kind of, I said it, it defused my anger of wanting to hit him. Literally.

Because for me, I'm a culture guy. Like, if you're in my family, you're on my team, you can make fun of me. I told y'all beginning of the podcast, y'all can say what you want to to me. I'm just real funny about the people I love. And if you, you know, it's kind of like your brother or sister, you know, we can talk about them like, I swear they ain't hitting on nothing. But then somebody else said, you're ready to fight. And so for me, I felt like he was slapping at a Bill Jordan.

He was slapping at a Cuzz Strickland or Toxie Hayes or these pioneers of these companies. And, and, um, and I remember walking away and I remember telling Bill that night, Bill Jordan, cause Bill would always just the nicest guy would never want to offend anybody. And said, Bill, I said, man, I've walked a tightrope, you know, and I said, I don't want to be too country. And Corinne and I were talking about this yesterday. And I said, and I realized that all I can think about is I don't want to be around folks like that. I want to be back home on the dirt road in Georgia, you know, or somewhere out in Nebraska with my buddies, these farmers, these ranchers, and people that understand the balance and the good Lord's renewable resource. And I'm realizing

more and more through that condescending nature and how they judging that we are some of the best people and best organizations and best assets to America that's out there. And I said, and I will no longer, you know, make any excuses for what we do. I said, Bill, you're a hell of an entrepreneur and you made a lot of money. And I said, and the people that support it. And at the time, I think we had about 13 or 14 million licensed hunters. I'm not sure exactly what that number is now. And I said, and it's up to us to stand up for it.

We're not making excuses. And I said, I catch myself this whole night feeling like I need to shake somebody's hand to make an excuse that we're the hunter sorry and it bothered me you know here i am 21 22 and i'm sure steve you've been in some certain situations like that and i walked away and i think that was the biggest part of my career because i started realizing i got very comfortable about who i was who who meant the most to me and and uh and like I said, there was everybody that was part of my team and that I knew have become friends with from people that truly hunted just for substance and to put meat on their table. I knew a lot of trophy

hunters. I knew conservationists, I knew environmentalists. I knew just a good old boys who just wanted to drink a Budweiser and sit on a dove stool, you know, and I knew people at that point, you know, up in Michigan and Pennsylvania, and I started putting it all together. And I think that was when I really become proud of the culture and really started, I shouldn't say fighting for it, but just being able to know that I could go head to head with anybody that would try to downgrade the culture. Not, not just what I like to do, but all of us like to do. I mean, you know, some of us like DIY, some of us work all week and maybe it is a, an outfitter that you trust in to take you hunting. Um, you know,

some people like to chase a big trophy, mature animal. Some people literally want to shoot a doe just to have some skillet meat and grind some burger for their family, especially among what we see in now. And so I think that was the biggest changing part though and that was 96 and slowly i think that led to the less i really cared and just become more comfortable as a personality because i never dreamed of being a personality i just couldn't believe i was hunting and fishing and doing these things and i think that's when people could either hate me or like me but potentially at least respect me maybe and And so that was a turning point for sure, Steve, no doubt. I came across a lot of that same disapproval you're talking about in various circles because through book publishing,

I was just introduced to New York, and through TV I was introduced to Los Angeles. And I found that a couple things would happen where I would talk to people and they would be, we'd get into like hunting 101. And they would be pleasantly surprised to learn that there were hunting regulations. Yeah. Pleasantly surprised.

Like that's how sort of like they they in their mind you just like went into the woods and just whatever just shot something yeah you'd be like oh no home it because here's this let me explain this whole thing there's these things called like biologists right and they do like these wildlife surveys and they issue and they'd be like no shit and that made me realize the value of having some amount of conversation and the other thing i would realize is that growing up in a rural area um we would do the same thing to people that lived in cities is what we thought people live in cities do to us like yeah everything's filthy um everything's rats yep every you know i mean you're gonna get robbed around every corner you

get robbed all the time you know it's like i was like yeah you know what i guess i got it like in all fairness i gotta look and be like man we have stereotype like we grew up in the west side of michigan um it was just like taken as a i the only time i ever went over to detroit is we had to go over there for a school event one time and we went over to detroit is we had to go over there for a school event one time and we went over there like if we could have brought shotguns we would have brought shotguns yeah there's no way we're coming back alive from a school event you know like from a school event joy so it does like you know i think it does cut both ways but there is that there is that little bit of um you know i attribute it it more to like, there's sort of like assholes in every walk of life.

Yes. And that thing where someone's going to go like, oh, okay, deer slayer. Okay, baby killer. You're like, you know what, man? Even if you lived, even if you were a hunter, you'd still be an asshole. Yeah, you would be. I think you're right. hunter you'd still be an asshole yeah you would be you know you probably it's probably deep down in you that you gotta be that you gotta have it be that um you got everyone's number yeah like you

see through everyone or you know like you know what's really going on so grandma you crochet hey uh i want to ask you to think about, so how many kids do you have? I got five. Four boys, one girl? I got one girl, yep, four boys, yep. Do you lean on them about what you want them to do? Or do you take the same approach that you wish people would have had with you when you were a kid? No, I definitely take a different approach, I would say, because I think I learned. I think all of us sitting here realize that we're being able to do something that's very all American, like, holy cow. I mean, think about today. It's a, was it Thursday during the day? And we're sitting here getting a chance to just talk. This is

something we do around a campfire and share it with the world. So I definitely push my kids to, to not worry about the safe conservative route is to look, and right now while you're young, you know, if you want to break it into statistics or percentages, you know, you got, you know, if you look at, say, an entertainer, Bruno Mars, or those Guns N' Roses, and those people that play in band, or actors and actresses, and even people do what we do, obviously it's tough to get there. A lot of doors have to be open. You have to have ability, you have to have talent, you have to have so many things that happen. You have to have good Lord's blessing and the will be done. However, if you don't go for it, then you might be bitter later in life. So I tell them now, push for the things that you think are unachievable and I'll support you into the percentages, there's a 10% chance that I can be on a podcast with the Meat Eater crew or be like those guys or possibly create a company like Bone Collector or maybe make it as a country singer or an actor, an actress, whatever. Well, if you don't make it and you really wholeheartedly tried, guess what?

You got a 90% chance of going and getting a job at aflac and selling insurance they won't take that privilege away yeah and like i said i'm not even downgrading that i'm not even downgrading anybody that does that but i know all of us here would be pretty miserable if we'd have never tried this i mean i think right now i think the common ground all of us sitting here i guarantee you if we had to go work at Sonic tomorrow, we would think, man, like, holy cow, man, what a heck of a ride. Man, we did some things and we achieved some things. I got something on Netflix. I did a hunting documentary talking about the culture.

You know what? I feel good about flipping this burger right now, but I did it. But if we had never done it and thought we had the potential, I think that'd be catastrophic and psychologically damaging. And I think sometimes people don't go for it enough, but all of a sudden, if you are 48, you say I'm 48 and I've got five kids. And I tell my wife, Hey, I think I'm on, I know what I'm going to do. Getting back to the sling blade comment. I'm going to call the boys and I'm heading to Nashville. I'm getting a band. Watch out, Zach Brown. Here I come. You know, I can't do that. I got a a mortgage i got insurance to pay i got cars you know you got all this stuff you got kids and with five kids you know four boys my god they eat

yeah we have to eat a lot of wild game i understand your message because we have to eat a lot just because you can't afford ribeyes for all these steak night is when me and mama are alone but anyway with that said i do push them steve Steve, to say, go for it, man. Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. Go for it. Like my son is a really good guitar player and singer. He's 21, about to graduate college.

He's on a fishing scholarship at Montevallo University. He's like, Dad, what would you think if I went to Nashville? I said, you'd be crazy not to. He's on a fishing scholarship. Yeah, bass fishing scholarship. And I've been so proud of him, and it's been amazing. Does he want to continue with that? You know, he loves fishing. I don't think he does want to stay at the level of trying to be, say, an elite pro.

He's been around all of this. Like, he was very pumped I was going to be up here with you guys today because he follows you all. Matter of fact, the whole university, I mean, I have to give you guys a hell of a lot of props on what you allall been able to do, especially with the younger generation. I mean, all, I mean, I got a lot of my buddies. Uh, I mean, I say my buddies, but these kids at these schools that go, they're going to be jacked when they, I can say, Hey man, I was on meat eater podcast. No way. No way. You kidding me? You know? And, um, and so it's, here comes old man.

Yeah, let me tell you about my pecans and this turkey I yelped in with a wing bone. So, yeah, it's amazing. But those kids are amazing, and I know they got that opportunity. And I think Mason being around this space, even though he loves the competition part of it, I think he's more interested in the path of media you know, media and, and just, uh, the, the business parts of it and, and seeing the PR and the opportunity, uh, being that he grew up around real tree, he grew up around the clothing manufacturers, these farm companies, the, the bow and arrow manufacturers, personalities like yourself, um, you know, in fishermen, I think he is more intrigued to

maybe do something deeper with the people in the person. Not necessarily have to be a personality, but just I think he really respects the space. And so I think that's what he'll do. But right now he's really good at singing and playing. And through our work, you know, I've met a lot of country singers. And they're like, man, you ought to get your boy to come up here and jam and stuff. Oh, that's cool. I said, Mason, you ought to do that.

I said, think about it, dude. What have you got right out of school said mason you ought to do that i said what think about it dude what have you got right out of school what have you got to do you can get you a job anything just scratching up a little little opportunity for for a beer on a friday night and play guitars with people like ira dean and red akins and maybe if blake comes to town i said you know you can call him mason you hang out and i said why wouldn't you do that and see where it leads and just have fun enjoy and learn from the experiences? So I am, if you want to say, everybody would look at me and say, this old redneck is going to be the ultimate conservative. Boy, get you a job.

You're going to go to work. Get this shovel and go to work. And I do want them to work. I'm big on work ethic. But now's the time, because once you get married, you got a kid on the way, and you got that mortgage. Uh-uh. It's a different dad. Like, uh-uh. I ain't paying for it. Get your butt back. You know, you better a kid on the way and you got that mortgage. Uh-uh. It's a different dad. Like, uh-uh, I ain't paying for it.

Get your butt back. You know, you better figure out how to pay for this. It's funny you say it. A very good friend of mine growing up, he followed, you know, all the wild cards, right? Yeah. And he ended up going into the tech industry. Uh-huh. And the whole time, his dad, who just recently retired from the railroad here, very similar to your father's growing up, right?

Right. He's like, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. Well, tech job takes off. He ends up getting a big paycheck. Has like three months of not working, right? Yeah. And his dad's just losing it. And finally he has a talk with him and he's like, okay, you did all that.

There's a job with the city opening up. to get that pension there you go right and it's just like it's still just like yeah it's like this is concrete you followed the thing you got a big paycheck that's neat he's like but this is what we know is like safe. That, you know, it's funny that brings up. And that, I mean, I know I'm here, you know, talking and y'all asking questions about what I had to do. But I've often found it interesting because I, you know, Steve, I know you probably run into this. Probably the one thing I noticed as getting a chance to shake hands and meet hunters across the country is it's like a love hate. They're like, what's up what if you know i've seen them with steve you know he was at nwtf last or the year that last year they

had it in there what's up mate and you can tell what they're doing is like love you but you know somebody got to paint this house somebody still got to work in the concrete business run a bull float but hey good guy glad y'all having fun you know hey glad you caught a beaver this morning at eight o'clock you know yeah what you guys call work yeah what you get so so it's almost like i catch myself like hugging them like hey man i i get it i would hate me i would i would hate me too if i'm you but at the same time you can tell there's respect. And they're like, man, that was awesome. Yeah, that's an interesting perspective. And so it hit me.

I'm thinking, man, there is a little bit of a problem. And I don't know if it's parenting or what it is, but I feel like the more you love something, the more you push it into this conservative, very safe. And I certainly saw it with COVID to where it just hit me how afraid people are of everything, everything. And I mean, making a living, the insurance or, hey, you ain't got health insurance or you ain't got this, you ain't got that. And I'm thinking, well, first of all, you know, I'm a praying man and I believe in God. And I'm thinking, well, you know, you know, there's a certain part of this to where I shouldn't worry about this. No way. And I understand worry and planning.

But then I think we all kind of raised up to say, all right, go to college, get you a good job. And in the process of everything, where are we really living and following certain dreams? And I found that there was a lot of people that's very frustrated and bitter and almost depressed, not because they didn't make it. It was because they never really even tried. They made it. They're because they never really even tried. They made it. They're upper middle class making good money. You know, they're going to their girls' dance recital every year. You know, they're coaching T-ball and stuff like that and doing good.

And that is the American dream. But yet they'll shake Steve and I's hand and like, hey, must be nice. But then I want to say, well, you don't realize I didn't ever get to coach. I coached T-ball for the first time last year. I'm 48. I got four boys. And last year was the first time that I said no enough to things that I'm like, no, I'm coaching T-ball. I got, you know, I got a five-year-old and all my other kids are 17, 21, 14.

I'm going to coach ball. I'm just going to say no to some things and yeah and so i did miss that part of it you know i missed i remember people talk about seinfeld and friends i never saw i couldn't have told you who won the national championship in the 90s because i was work i was gone in elk camp going anywhere and everywhere i couldn't have told you what a friend's episode was like so the mundane that most moms and dads could sit down and get their kids a bed and watch Seinfeld, I didn't even know it exists. Oh, a Super Bowl?

That might be the only NFL game you watch because you're just working and you're grinding. So I do realize that we're blessed, but we did work hard to get here and we possibly could have fell on our face. And the way I look at it is sometimes I wish people would be more motivated, especially early in life, to just go for it, just try. Because what have you got to lose? Hey, folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness, do we hear from the Canadians

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Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX x club y'all i never yeah i never had to deal with any of that crap from my folks and um they were

my dad never you know he didn't finish high school he left high school to fight in the war. Right. He was just elated and really overestimated what I had done by the time he died. So he was on like a six-month, they're like, you have a six-month to live from cancer. And I had done one story outside, and I'd done like two things for Field and Stream. And he was dying, and we went down to Florida to fish. I remember going into a, you know, where you're going to buy like a bucket of shrimp, you know. Yeah. Him basically coming through the door being like, have I got a surprise for you guys?

Meet my boy! He gets his mail in Michigan. He's did three articles in Field and Stream. Oh yeah, he's like, do you know who you're talking to? That's amazing. My who you're talking to that's amazing he was just that's amazing beside himself with excitement you know it was nice not to have to deal in that garbage but when you uh we kind of talked a little bit how you got going when you went to start your own thing and yeah and do bone collectors did you have to like burn bridges and

piss everybody off and everything or were they like hey good luck you know what i i didn't feel like when i was doing it i was burning bridges but i think there was an optic that maybe i was because i was working full-time at real tree and i'd had the show a show called real tree road trips that i just i don't even know how i got lucky enough to to do that show but it got more around the whole standpoint of just the fun and the campfires. And I realized that a lot of these personalities were super funny and cool. And back then, TNN was very starched, very perfect. Every hunt scenario was perfect.

Everything everybody said was perfect. So I thought that they might be a good lane for the fun of hunting in this camp and adventure. And so when I pitched that idea to bill jordan and david blanton for outdoor channel because outdoor channel was brand new and that was when you'd go to the golden moose awards and literally there was beer in a bathtub and it was in somebody's suite you know and um and so at the time you know the the politics were getting kind of strange at tnn it went away at that time. Realtree, our outdoors, was on ESPN at the time, and it was very strict.

You couldn't show any impact shots. And they, you could- They had like a blood prohibition. Very big, like to the point to where you couldn't even have your own creative vibe or style. We're blessed now. We can still kind of say, this is kind of what I want. This is a portrait.

And we produce it and paint it, and we put it on a network. Even what you're doing on Netflix, Netflix is still what you want to do. It's not dictated. Well, then ESPN would dictate it. They told you how your show was going to look. And I always thought it was kind of strange. And so I remember early on saying, we should do something over here on Outdoor Channel.

And Bill and David agreed. And so I pitched them this idea of that Realtree Road Trips. And they said, well, yeah, that's one we should produce. And they said, I don't know who we get to host it. I don't even know if it needs a host, but I think if we could just have a spinoff show off this TNN show, you know, if we had these guests. Because I remember, you know, going and have a lot of writers,

Pat Durkin being one of them. We'd all go to hunting camps and stuff and looking for articles. I remember Jim Shockey would be there and, you know, it was cool. But obviously we'd hunt deer and we'd build a big fire and, you know, eat a good food. And so I remember there's all this fun stuff happening, and I thought that that could really be a tactful way to present the fun and the real camp life. And so that was road trips. And so Bill and David said, well, you host it.

I'm like, well, no, I didn't pitch this for me to be on TV. Bill and David were letting me hunt a little bit as a reward. That was my Christmas bonus. Like, Hey man, you know, why don't we let that old kid, why don't he ought to run, let him go to Texas this year and try to shoot a deer. Like, and they'd be like, Hey, got something to tell you. And it'd be like a kid, you know, trying to get the Cracker Jack prize, you know, prize out of Cracker Jacks.

My boy, my kid go to Encinitas. We're going to let you bow hunt a deer down there. You know, man, just be so excited. And so I'd got to hunt a little bit and i was getting a chance to do some turkey calling like tips you know because i'd done like some on camera stuff i was getting some on camera so i wasn't like hired as a personality as hired as a you know producer or editor whatever you know jack of all trades i guess but when we'd come against a wall and have a partner or turkey calling partner or something around Turkey, there's like, we need a good turkey tip in this episode.

And I'm like, we'll let Michael do it. But here's the thing. Cause, but you were already like, you were already a champion caller. And that kind of led to that. And even before. I would think you'd have gone. I would think that had, I guess no one knew. I would have think you'd gone right into being like a forward facing person.

Yeah. And I wasn't, I definitely wasn't my thinking. I'd always been very humble, but also very confident. You know, it's like there's a fine line there is, you know, where I never thought much about it. It was never on top of mind, like, man, one day, one day I'm going to be a hunting show host. I remember thinking, man, I hope I get to hunt. Oh, I'd love to hunt Saskatchewan. God, it would be unbelievable to go to Alaska and hunt moose. Are you kidding me? That'd be a dream. And I'll always think about how could I save enough money or how would I get lucky to do it? Never did I think I'd get to do it and present it on a show. And so, uh, but I think, I think, um, you know, what happened was, is, is,

as everything got to grow and I, I just got these opportunities these opportunities to do things that I never dreamed of. And so for me, I'm still humbled and I pinched myself with it. And I was not expecting of it at all, for sure. I didn't plan it. What year was the first bone collector property that came out? It was 2007 was when I left Realtree. And the reason, even getting back to that, at the road trips, it created a good bit of success for not only the company, but for myself. And so I was getting opportunities at that time during road trips, working full-time as an employee. And Realtree was a pretty big corporation, even though it was privately owned. But we had, you know, a handbook, you know, HR department, and we had policies and parameters, what you could and couldn't do. And one of the

things you couldn't do is, is certainly accept any money from any of the partners from these licensee. We're a licensee based company to where, you know, if it was a clothing company, they would pay a royalty to put that camo pattern on their product. So, you know, in your case, take a first light, they couldn't have paid me to say, Hey, Waddell, could you come do an appearance for us at Cabela's? You know, you know, which, you know, like, no, I can't accept that money. So what happened was I was starting to get all these requests and opportunities, mainly from the partners of road trips. And I kept bringing it to Bill Jordan and David. And they said, man, you can't, you can't accept that. You can't accept that money. I'm like,

well, how do we handle this? And even realtor at the time didn't know how to handle man, you can't accept that. You can't accept that money. I'm like, well, how do we handle this? And even Realtree at the time didn't know how to handle it because it was just really exciting. But also like, holy cow, I can't do this. This is against the company rules. I kind of feel like I'd like all these guys that are here to leave the room real quick while we can explore this. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so I remember –

I'm very interested how you broke free of this system. Well, I remember sitting in these managers' meetings. They'd have managers' meetings every Monday, and it was a big enough topic that I was getting companies call. And I had a guy who helped me tremendously. The guy's name was Sean Perry, and he was from Endeavor Company, now Philip Morris Endeavor out of California. You might know Sean. Great guy. I know the company, though. And from Endeavor Company, now Philip Morris Endeavor out in California. You might know Sean.

Great guy. I know the company, though. And so, I mean, I get a call, like, at Realtree on my little desk in Cubicle, and it said Endeavor, and I pick it up. He said, hey, man, Sean Perry. I'm an agent out in California, man. What are you doing? Right away, he just cut to the chase.

He said, dude, you wouldn't know it, but I'm an agent. I work with a lot of stars, and i'm just interested i'm a big fan of show he said i'm one of the few guys out here that hunt i love to hunt and um anyway and he says i think i have talked to this guy he's a great guy man he's a cool cat and uh and anyway he says what are you making and i said well he gets right down to it right down to it and he said do you have any things people are calling about and stuff he said said, I love Realtree. I'm a big fan of Realtree. And I remember thinking, holy cow, I'm feeling like, you know, I'm looking on my shoulder, like I'm on a company phone here, you know? And anyway, and he says, man, you need a book, you need this, and you should be doing

this. He said, and I think you can do more. And I said, well, I got these couple opportunities. And I said, but I don't know how to handle them. I can't do this at Realtree. He said, well, you'd have to leave Realtree. He said, you don't need to go against their corporate policies. It is what it is. But I think you're strong enough. You could be on your own. And so I'm like, holy cow, this is a whole nother level of getting back to the whole family talk.

Now, I'm working in hunting and fishing, but I got a corporate job. Man, don't shake that up. And so anyway, he said, well, send me those contacts. And that day, literally, I sent him over a couple phone numbers of marketing people. He calls me back that day. He said, all of them said yes. He said, I got you like a couple phone numbers of marketing people. He calls me back that day. He said, all of them said yes. He said, I got you like a couple hundred grand if you want to do it as a two-year deal. And I'm freaking.

Like he went and put it together? That quick. That quick. With no sort of talk about what the commission would look like? Nothing. Nothing. He even told me, he said, I don't need your money. Because I think he did minimize it from the standpoint he wasn't looking at this kid from booger bottom being Leonardo DiCaprio.

He knew that he'd spend his time getting this film with DreamWorks for him. But, you know, hey, man, I can get this kid a book deal. I can do this. And I can make, especially when I told him, I said, I'm making about $50,000 a year at the time. Which I was tickled to death. But I realized there's more opportunity. But right now you're in this spot. Yeah. And yeah and i'm like i'm happy and i'm in this hell of a spot i don't know how to handle it and i don't want to be too big for my britches you

know and so i go down to the manager's meeting one day say man i like talking to you guys about something i got some opportunity but i don't want to you know y'all think i'm being ungrateful of my opportunity here and at first it rattled some change and they were kind of tough on me. Like it was pretty hard. Like I'm like, man. And then later, as I started showing some of the opportunities, it was Bill Jordan that said, Hey, you got to just leave Realtree. You got to be your own man.

You got to leave Realtree, but we'll support you. And I'm like, and I'm like, he said, but you can't, I can't allow you to do this when I can allow other people in the company not to do it. He said, so you got to leave. And that means giving up your benefits. You're not coming into work every day. And so I left and my first gig was with Gander Mountain and they hired me to host this show called We Live Outdoors. And, uh, and it was an awesome opportunity and I made good money. And then within a month or two, Realtree, we come back and we sat down and put a subcontracting type of contract together where I was still hosting the Realtree Road Trips. And so from that, I was excited. I was kind of set. I knew for two years, but I also remember I had created one of the things that Gander Mountain had had me do. They said, look, we want to reformat our show and make it more around what you think would be cool for your personality. And at that time, it seems like what you think would be cool for your personality. And at that time, it seems like that there's always these stages in the industry, you know,

you know, where, where certain things are happening. And at that time, I felt like we was having to make a whole lot of excuses, you know, for, for hunting. It was weird. It was having to do that. So for me, bone collector, that was a crazy, almost in your face approach. But in reality, it w it really wasn't as, you know, this muscle man and high-fiving and killing everything as it seemed like it was. So it was a little bit of a little trickery in the fact that I wanted to almost offend a little bit and pee in your face. But in reality, when you got behind the scenes, you just saw a bunch of smiling guys that just had fun and you just wanted to be in our camp.

So it was a little bit of a, we make no excuses. We're a hunter. We're a predator. It's the way I was born. I'm a bone collector. Who did the skull logo? Dude, a guy in Alabama. I had this idea and I wrote this little creed.

And actually, all of that, ironically, I put this whole treatment for the show for Gander Mountain. And we sat down at their board and they said it was too racy and they didn't want to do it. And they stuck We Live Outdoors. And so literally right after meeting, I wasn't even deflated. I just thought, well, okay. And then I asked him, I said, well, look, would y'all have a problem if I trademarked that myself and started? They said, not at all.

Oh, they thought the drawing was too racy? Well, they didn't have the, I didn't have the drawing. I just told them, I just told them this big creative idea I had for bone collector. And I said, and it wasn't even at the time bone collector. It was that creed. I said, I think what's happening, I think my exact pitch to them at the time was Gander Mountain was a little bit struggling. And I felt like they were kind of riding the fence. You know, you didn't know if you wanted to be kind of more if

you want to use the word granola i know that can be a fence to somebody but but but do you want to be hardcore here you want to be hardcore there i felt like they were straddling the fences i think you just started just jump into it and be a big corporation that really jumps into the fishing and hunting so like they were they couldn't tell if they wanted to go like hike and bike and yes they didn't know if they want to be REI or they wanted to be. You had to walk through a bunch of zip off pants. Yes. To get to the shotgun section.

That is correct. You're exactly right. And I was just trying my best not to defend, but also just try to do my best creatively to say, here's what I see as it reflects back to what I think and the people I'm meeting doing appearances in your store. And I threw in this idea of of like let's just make excuses let's let gander mountain be the foremost hardcore cater to the diehard ice fisherman to the diehard duck hunter waterfowler as well as hiker but we make no excuses for anything we're involved in and

so you know and if i'm your guy why don't we just kind of with a smile just say don't worry about it don't make no excuses who you are this is what what you enjoy doing. And it's legal and it's safe. And we're putting back and hunting God's renewable resources and fishing for them. So that was kind of my idea. And so when they said no to it, let's just kind of stick in this kind of Manila, very safe lane of We Live Outdoors, which was a pretty good show, but it was like everything else. And so then I said, hey, you mind if I do it? And so was so busy with with road trips and the we live outdoor i knew that i couldn't do the shows myself and so i i knew nick munt who was a i was gonna i was gonna ask how it went like nick and t-bone like how that uh nick was a guide out in

wyoming and i just he and i were the same age and just loved a dude man he's just a good hunter a good people person. Obviously spent a lot of time with a lot of clients, taking them hunting and fishing. And just funny, just funny, almost like a Jim Carrey type of guy. And he's now married, so he don't cut up as much as he used to. He's had to get serious in life. And then T-Bone was always, he won the world championship, ASA, and he owned an archery shop right up right above where i lived

and was probably the foremost bow wrench and if you had a problem with your bow and you're having problems shooting t-bone could have you i mean like hitting stuff and doing things that you was blown away because he was just a phenomenal at understanding the mechanics of bows but he was also this just jolly fun dude who loved to hunt, who obviously wasn't going to be a Cameron Haynes and run to the top of the mountain first, but just a great, fun dude. And he might be standing at the top of the mountain, got a helicopter ride. When he got there, he gave you a Swiss cake roll. Come on, Steve. You don't like this, buddy.

You want a Werther's candy or Swiss cake roll, buddy? Here you go. And you just loved him. Everybody loved him and always smiling. And so I thought, man, these guys, I think they can help out a lot. And they're Wisconsin professionals. I knew the space. And so I talked to them about coming on and helping with that.

And that's really what it was. Yeah. And so it was just crazy and amazing and such a blessing. And it still is. And even though I'm a little older now and grayer in my beard, I still feel like a 12-year-old. I really do. I was so excited. So excited to come up here and chat with you guys.

I mean, I just, I don't take anything for granted. And, you know, here recently, T-Bonus, we was just discussing. Yeah, yeah. I know. Who in here mentioned that? I didn't know that this was a, I didn't know he was going through that. I know. Right when I come in, right at the front desk, we were talking about it.

This past summer, he noticed a knot that was starting to grow on his leg. It's crazy how it happened. I remember he knelt down to take a picture of a deer that Nick had shot, I think it was, in Wisconsin. And we're just going to take a, you know, grab and grin photo with our buddies. And when he knelt down in the snow, a stob hit him on his shin. And like it gave him a big bruise, you know, one of those kind of stone bruises. Like, golly. Like that shouldn't have done that.

Yeah. Oh, that hurt. But it was like quickly a knot come up right on that, you know, there's no room for anything there on that bone and it hurts. And well, over time, it just was a knot that wouldn't go away. Well, this past summer, it started growing and literally started growing so big, it popped through his skin from inside to out. And it was just a terrible sarcoma that grew.

But what the hell did it have to do with the bump in his knee? I don't know. And we're still trying to figure it out. I guess it's just the circulation and it somehow, you know, I don't know how all this tumor and cancer starts but i guess lack of circulation certain things and it just become but they i mean i know this isn't like a medical show but is it that that revealed the problem or does it yeah i don't know i don't know that's nuts it's wild and that's why t-bone like this past october i noticed he was being real quiet and he wasn't saying anything,

and he had told me he was having some problems with his leg, his right leg. And then later we were doing an event up at our friend's place, Derek Carraway's got Whitaker Gun up in Kentucky, and we were just having a big promotion and just sport and good store, fun time, and T-Bone, I noticed that he was setting down. And the one thing I'd always made a commitment to, and I got really choked up, we did a little podcast talking to T-Bone, is I'd made a commitment to when I saw that, man, they would actually, people show up and want to shake our hand. Like Seth and I met years ago. And the first thing I noticed, we were all standing.

I said, look, guys. As you remember well. Yeah, exactly. I remember well after the photo for sure. But I remember I told these guys, man, I said, we should never. I said, I don't think we should ever sit down. I said, if a grown man thinks enough to come by and shake our hand, you know, because that can be hard. There's a lot of pride and ego in a man's world. And I said, man, I want to make sure if they want a man hug or high five or look at trail cam pictures, I want to stand right there on this side of the table. And so we made that commitment.

And T-Bone had told me, he said, Michael, I'm really worried. He said, my leg is really jacked up. They said, I can't walk, can't stand real good. He said, I'm in a lot of pain. And he showed me some pictures. And I'm like, oh, my God, T-Bone. Well, he sat down the whole time. So we're doing this promotion.

And Nick and I are standing outside. And I look back there, and T-Bone, well, he sat down the whole time. So we're doing this promotion and Nick and I are standing outside and I look back there and T-Bone's kind of behind the counter, man. I got whelped up because I knew for T-Bone to not be out there with us and to be able to, because he's such a people person. He don't want anybody to be disappointed in him. And dude, I knew he was going through something. And then later, my wife is an oncology nurse. And so he told my wife, he said, don't tell anybody.

He said, it's cancerous. And one thing led to another, and they quickly knew that they was going to have to amputate his right leg. And so to stop the sarcoma. And they had found a little nodule in his lung. And so they did the typical chemotherapy to try to hopefully that that sarcoma didn't spread to his lung. And that particular nodule actually shrunk a little bit and so this past Monday he did have the amputation he's in a lot of pain but his attitude is beyond what I can even I don't know that I could handle it and it's been so odd to talk to

T-Bone about it because most of the time you, when a friend calls you with a problem, it's typically you that motivates them and reminds. It could be if you call a man's like, Steve, hey, bro, keep your head up. You're doing this. And bro, you know, you know, you love, you know, this, and it's kind of that motivational and T-Bone's calling us and talking about this amputation, what he's going through, and he's having to motivate us. You know, like, what do you say?

Yeah, it's interesting. What do you say? Yeah, it's interesting. You know, what do you say? You know, and anyway, he's doing better. And it really has helped remind me of just all this. Yeah, where he's like, it's going to be all right, Michael. Yeah, it's going to be all right. I said, I'm good with this. I have peace. And you know what?

You're going to be fine, Michael. Yeah, that's what he's doing. He's like, it's okay, Michael. I'm going to be fine. I'm going to have one leg. And we're starting to come around. Like our crew, we are just cut ups,-ups, just goofing off all the time and hard on each other.

And so the other day, our producer, Nick, and I, we looked and we found him the old leg lamp off Christmas Carol. So we're getting – I hope you don't hear this before I get it to him. But we definitely want to get him stuff like that. You know that place? You remember we were sitting here and someone named Hillary came in the door and I said I missed?

Yes. Okay. Yes. She's from that town. Are you kidding me? And that house is a museum. No way. The Christmas Story house is a museum

with that lamp in the window. Are you serious? Yeah, like you can go there and it's like there's the house on the street with the lamp in the window. I would love to see. I love that. I don't even know. I don't know in the window. Are you serious? Yeah, like you can go there, and it's like there's the house on the street with the lamp in the window. I would love to see it. I love that video. I didn't even know, like,

I don't know what the hell. I thought it was a fictitious town. Maybe it is, but either way, that house, you can still go to where that. Where they shot in video, yeah, the whole thing. I don't know if that guy's still down in the basement beating on the coal furnace.

Ragging, ragging, ragging, ragging. So I don't want to get, I know this is fresh and I don't want to get too graphic, but how much, like a lot of his leg? They had to amputate middle of thigh. Ooh. So way up. And is he going to get, do they know yet? Yeah, like with a foot and everything on it?

I think so. I think so. T-Bone is very much a thorough detail guy. So he does a lot of research. He'll be ranching on that leg. Oh, man, he will. He'll have something. He'll look like Robo Man, I'm sure.

He'll be putting cams on there. He might make the NFL. He probably will. There's no telling. But then I've heard, too, that there's, again, maybe somebody can comment and let us know, but I'd always heard, too, that there was a weight limit on a prosthetic. Like somebody says 250 pounds, but I don't know the technology. If anybody's unaware, T-Bone is a large man.

Yeah, and he feels pretty confident. But like most of us men, I think the way I've always handled tough times is I just minimize it and say, hey, man, we're going to be good. And so I think T-Bone is doing some of that. But, man, his attitude and just it's been catastrophic in one way, but the love in the team has never been bigger because it really, like I was walking the other day to squirrel hunt by myself and literally got choked up, man. And I got just thinking of not just with T-Bone, but just everybody and all these campfires and all these fish.

And, dude, it just hit me hard. Like, man, I've been blessed to take some big animals. And some of them I scored, most of them I haven't. But what amazing adventures from Africa to all over the world to all over the country. That no way I was supposed to get to do that. But not just be there, but the people I met that I learned from that understand better their value of hunting and outdoorsman and being a conservationist to, to my take on things. And it is just amazing. And for me,

that was the biggest trophy. And one of those trophies is just all those fun times with T-Bone, just being the big guy that could take a joke they could give a joke that you can never piss him off you can never not make him smile they've always had a positive attitude and and it just made me just love him even more but not just him just all my hunting buddies and it kind of hit home because we can all lose focus man we get so busy we're running and going and then i think man sometimes it's just you know you gotta stop and what's the old saying? Smell the roses. And so that definitely happened with this. And the outpouring of love across the space and just social media. T-Bone, every time he gets to talking about it, he starts crying.

Not because he's got cancer, because he just didn't even know he had that many people loved him and that would be there if he called. So that was pretty phenomenal. Kareem, when he's all up and better, we should have him come up on the show. All right. He would love that. Talk about all that. He would love that.

I'll make sure he brings his leg lamp when he comes. Yeah. And we've already started cutting up. Like, we work with Thorough Good Boots. And I remember, you know, we literally went from crying on the podcast. I says, well, T-Bone, big question. What are we going to do with all these right-footed Thorough Good Boots?

So, you know, what's the old saying? Try to laugh, keep from crying on the podcast. He says, well, T-Bone, big question is what we're going to do with all these right-footed, thorough-good boots? So, you know, what's the old saying? Try to laugh, keep from crying. And that's what we've been going through the last week or so. But he's doing good. And definitely anybody that's made a comment or even listening here or watching, thank y'all, man. It's, you know, the love has been so amazing to see and feel. So thanks for all the prayers. It's been cool uh we joked

about it earlier the the pecan farm yeah um is that like a legit is that like a way out for you in the end you know what like when you kick back you're like man when i'm 65 that's what i'm doing or right now based on the money i've made on it which has not been enough to even see the light in that i would say no but okay but i do do think I'm learning. It's just like anything else. I'm learning to figure out a way to hopefully make a profit. And I think if anything, it's been a nice something to jump into, to try to master and learn and grow and kind of de-stress, to be honest with you. That part of it I've loved like you know i too love to trap as i know you do and for me trapping is a little different than hunting it

really is such a stress reliever for me to go trap and um but if you like being a 12 year old and having fun right the toys yes when you get into that i I was just down in Sacramento Valley, and they have a hedger that goes down in between the tree rows. It's got two big arms that are triangles with a spinning disc blade on the end of each tip of the triangle. And it goes down the rows and prunes the trees, you know? And my first thought was, why isn't that on any of these stupid zombie movies? And my second thought was, I really want to get in that and run it. I know. You know?

That is fun. The toys. Hey, what's the nut that everybody's always talking about how water consumptive? It must not be a pecan, right? Yeah, pecans. And almonds. Almonds, yeah. No, I think almonds is like,

I don't know. Almonds is the California example. There's like six gallons of water for every almond or whatever. I don't know what it is. So it's both. Pecans take a lot of water. I want to say it's great.

But I didn't know you're growing them in a state that has a lot of water, though. Well, a lot of it, my orchard is not irrigated. And believe it or not, last year we got so much rain in the south, I got too much water. So you're not dumping any water?

I'm not dumping any water. Maybe that's your marketing thing. Maybe it is. And it's funny. If people are throwing out how water consumptive it is coming out of the Imperial Valley or coming out of California,

you should just have it be like Waddell's non-irrigated. Non-irrigated. Pecans on a prayer. Come on. Heat up, yeah. Dude, I think you need to have it be

like Cal was saying. You need to have it be that you buy a little shitting bag, a lot of packaging, a lot of logoing, not shit for pecans. I could go into

my ultra-southern voice. Everybody, y'all line up. If you want pecans, come from straight God's bounty for harvest. We only got rain because God saw it fitting for y'all to eat them. Smile up.

Four dollars a pound. Small batch, artisan, non-irrigated. My buddy Rinella only eats meat in these prayer pecans. That's it. That's right. And you'd be like, if you think there's not enough pecans in this bag, it's because we had to make room for this nice handwritten note. Exactly. And you got the story on enough pecans in this bag, it's because we had to make room for this nice handwritten note. Exactly.

And you got the story on the back. I could get the picture with Seth and I at Harrisburg and get Seth and I to sign it. Like, hey, the pecan started here. Like nowadays, every energy bar, when you read the bag, it has like the story. Yeah. So it'll be like pecans on a prayer began when I made a realization about water consumption in the American world. And I thought to myself, I could do better. I could do this.

I can do better. Are those the best tasting squirrels, the pecan eaters? You know what? They are pretty tasty. I don't know. I can't tell a big difference. But psychologically, it's got to be there. Maybe that's a whole other thing.

I could get into organic squirrel, pecan fed squirrels. They say that wood ducks are the best tasting ducks because they eat so many nuts on their migration. So I'd imagine there's something similar with squirrels. I imagine they would be. And I do think, I mean, you know,

getting back into really for sure what Steve specializes in, I have certainly noticed a difference that animals in certain regions definitely taste better. Like, you know, you shoot a whitetail or mule deer that's been eating a lot of alfalfa. There's a noticeable difference in that versus a sagey mule deer versus, you know, even elk. And our whitetail around home, like in Montana, we hunt in the Milk River. I got those whitetail.

I mean, we can shoot 10 deer in Georgia legally, so it's not like I hurt for meat. But every time I'm in Montana, I always fly my meat back because it's just the best. It's just such, it's like it's the closest to grain-fed beef, it feels like to me. Have you heard that, Cal, you eat with your eyes? Yeah. First, right? You eat with your eyes first? Yeah. When you cut open a deer that's been in an alfalfa field and it's just like overflowing with fat.

Yeah. Your brain immediately commits to the fact that you're like, this is going to be the best tasting deer ever. That's right. Yeah. We can vouch for mallards that have spent three weeks in a millet field. Oh. Ain't bad. Well, they were better, right?

I mean, yeah. Yeah. Like when they get like obscene amounts of fat. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Eating%. Yeah. Eating hogs. I remember I was in Savannah hunting hogs.

I remember the old timer. I was there with, he said, one year, he said, these hogs ain't going to be fit and eat this year. It's been real dry. And they've been eating a lot of snails out on the coast. Huh. And anyway, and he said, this year, I went back to this year, they're fat. They've been eating acorns. He said, take as many home as you can.

So I did. And he was right. No kidding. Sometimes, you know, wild hog can be kind of gamey, you know, decently gamey. These were like the ones I remember my papa raising up, you know, and killing on the first frosty day. And I'm like, hold, I was mad that I didn't bring more like, cause there was a noticeable difference than foraging on acorns. And then he had a bunch of corn feeders versus them being that hungry because of the lack of acorns on this particular area and island that we were hunting on that they had to forge out there for snails and different things out there.

Oh, I can picture that. I didn't know. What's that in Italy? Don't they produce, isn't there like a ham where the pigs only allowed to eat acorns? Yeah. Really? I can't think of what the hell it is though. But then they like cure it and all that.

Like a serrano, it was like some kind of serrano ham. I don't know. There's another angle for your pecans. There is. Pecan hogs.

Hey, we learning. They have hogs on a prayer, pecans on a prayer. Hey, Mike. Oh, go ahead. Hey, Mike, talk about, tell about how you're

so, so country that you're like trying to outgrow eating squirrels and rabbits. It is funny. It's funny. Even speaking of T-bone, I grew up so dang country. I didn't even realize I did until you hit the nail on the head, Steve, when you were talking about how stereotypes of, say, us that hunt, whether you're in rural Michigan, Pennsylvania, or Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, wherever.

We also had a stereotype of New York City or, say, L.A. And then I realized the first time I go, I had the most fun ever. You know, like, dude, this is pretty cool. I remember going to Las Vegas the first time, and I'm like, you know, holy cow, this is pretty surreal and cool, you know. Some things I didn't like. People smoking cigarettes at yeah at the casino machine this is crazy man i'm gonna go see that michael jackson show man i think 50 but it's fun or go see oh and these these broadway shows and so i realized that man there's room for all

of us to grow but um i grew up so country i i didn't i didn't know about those things i knew about what i i knew and it was so funny even even eating wild game, like my papa, man, he was a big time. I never thought of him as a hunter, but he made a little corn liquor and he sold it. And he only kind of lived off the land. I'd never remember him having a job. This is your grandpa. Yeah, my grandpa, my dad. Sold illegally.

Completely illegally. But I knew it was weird. I'm not condemning. Yeah, completely. But ironically, the chief of police in Manchester would come by from it. Like an old guy named Willie Stargill, he'd be down there buying corn liquor, you know. And I'd say, he put it in his car. Hey, blue boy.

They called me blue boy because I was the first blue-eyed grand youngin', you know. Hey, blue boy. He'd be putting two mason jars of corn liquor. He's just getting it off the streets. Oh, yeah. Confisc just getting it off the street. Yeah, oh, yeah. Confiscating some liquor from your papa. And so he taught me a lot about, like, I remember the first turtle traps we ever had out, fish baskets. Oh, really?

And he used to have quail baskets. So he was hardcore. Hardcore. But never did he do it for sport. Like, I mean, no, no, he stuttered real bad. No, no, blue boy, come on down. No, let's go check the traps. And so we'd go, and I remember going bass fishing with him and stuff like that,

and he would catch every once in a while in a trap, we'd catch a possum. Well, that possum would come back, and he'd start feeding it corn. He'd feed out this possum or coon, and we'd eat it. And so what's funny was— Like he'd change his diet and fat. Completely change his diet. Like he'd take a'd change his diet and fat completely change his diet like he'd take a coon or possum and he had this like a rabbit pen and you might be two or three coons in there at any given time no kid or a possum and he would feed it he'd feed it from table scraps to

like cornbread i remember feeding him cornbread and you know possum obviously come to them like come like slaughter day he'd feed him out for a couple months, and he'd kill them and then eat them, just like the domestic pig he had in the field. So I learned a lot about things. And also another thing. This guy sounds like a good guy to hang out with. He was so fun. And a lot of things he did illegal, but I didn't know it was illegal. Like we had quail in Georgia, and he would have quail baskets out,

and we'd catch a whole cubby. And it's completely illegal. But looking back, man, that night we'd eat quail like we'd all eat quail that night or we'd go fishing and my papa i'd never seen him in my life throw a bass back never like a large amount i mean son of a gun we went back and scaled that sucker and and he would never he never would freeze he'd put it in a um old tupperware bowl and had water and he put salt in it just leave them soaked in in water. And not only would he cook them, but he was with a woman.

He wasn't even married to her. Her name was Claudine, which is country and hell. That's her name. It's like a Dolly Parton movie. He wrote her name.

He's like, I like you. Claudine, yeah. Claudine, she would always have to run on. You're going to take care of me.

It just sounds like you're going to get some good food. Come on to my grandmom's house. Claudine, okay, we're going to take care of me. It just sounds like you're going to get some good food. Come on to my grandmom's house. Claudine, okay, we're going to eat good tonight. But he'd have him fish in a Tupperware bowl. He'd have four or five bass in there. And if it was just him or Claudine, he'd take about two or three,

and he'd cook him. He'd leave the other in the bowl. And so he'd eat from them. We'd have goat milk in there. So I grew up eating some of this stuff with my papa to realize that I did like deer. And, boy, I was going to get me a good job them and we'd have goat milk in there so i grew up eating some of this stuff for my pawpaw to realize that i did like deer and boy i was gonna get me a good job so i could buy me a piece of chicken you know so some of it was good and some of it like to this day i cannot eat goat cheese i

can go to a fancy restaurant and i'm like man they have goat cheese and i'm like no because i grew up smelling them and you know having goat milk it ain't nothing worse if you don't know what you're getting into and pour a big old chug of, you know, goat milk over your Froot Loops in the morning. You go, man, this ain't, I don't think this is that homogenized, you know. I tell everybody, I'm like, no matter how good it is at the end. Yeah. When it kind of like leaves your mouth.

Yeah. I taste goat dust. Yeah, you do. It's kind of like eating javelina if you ever you can eat a burrito and ever because i've seen you on your show y'all eat javelina stuff and then you eat it and it's good and then all of a sudden it'd be like two days later oh javelina it's like you feel it you So again. My daughter, recently she was eating some McDonald's french fries. Later she commented that, she's like, how come when you burp up the food, it's always the good parts that you taste? And I'm like, no one's ever observed that to me.

I realize she like associates it with burping up McDonald's french fries. I was like, yeah, that might be like your own private experience there, Rosemary. She hates it with burping up McDonald's French fries. Get to enjoy it again. I was like, yeah, that might be your own private experience there, Rosemary. Honey, have you ever seen where Daddy tried to coyote? We one time, speaking of belching stuff up, we were floating a river for ducks one time for a day, and we had someone had taken a dry bag and put all the lunch shit it was my buddy eric put all the lunch shit in the dry bag but also put uh um uh not a fuel canister but like you know the white gas remember everybody used to use white

gas for camp stoves uh-huh because it's the winter time so he throws the white gas can in and the food and the stove all in the same rubber dry bag. And that white gas got out. Oh, my God. And you could eat it. You'd sort of faintly know. It was almost like you're smelling white gas while eating. But I'm not kidding you, man. I don't know what it was.

For hours afterward, burping up like purely, like it was so, it felt like you could blow flame balls. Really? The way that white gas would ever concentrate and belch back up. And it was like, you're like breathing out white gas fume. That is nuts. Yeah. I cannot smell that junk.

You know, like if you get like a super sick on like Canadian Hunter when you're 16, you can never smell Canadian Hunter again. When I smell white gas still to this day i still think of that still thinking that true like belching that white gas amazing you know because you see all this stuff about food and packaging and you know now they're big on the bottle water and the plastic bottle you know could cause cancer or whatever it seems like everything causes cancer but it was funny because my the kids you know, Halloween, I remember they had a bunch of peppermints and a couple like Reese's, those little, you know, Halloween pumpkin egg, Reese's egg.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Reese's pumpkin. Yeah, the peanut butter pumpkin. Man, I'm just like, I got a weak spot for them. I got to eat it. But I remember just the other day, one had been sitting in there. I'm thinking, man, this thing's got enough preservative. It'd survive at the landfill.

And it's still in its package. I'm like, I'm eating this sucker. But it'd been in a can like a peppermint. And when I ate it, it tastes like a peppermint peanut butter Reese's. And it hit me. I think, wait a minute, if all this is airtight, I find that odd. But it's similar. That it made its way in there.

Yeah, how does it do that? So maybe kind of that theory is correct. If it's around something, is the coffee that's in this cup, is it pulling from this whatever? I don't know. and i've never been one of those guys to think much about it but to be all paranoid but the term now is off gassing it's off gassing your furniture off gases and poisons you but also i think the product line at the farm is expanding yeah yeah you got peppermint uh peanut peppermint Peppermint flavored Prayer Yeah the story On the back

The story will be like One day I had my peppermints Mixed up with my What's the case Reese's Reese's cup Yeah it dawned on me To make a peppermint

Peanut cup Exactly So we're gonna do two things You're gonna stick around For trivia Yes I gotta tell you man I'm excited about that

I don't get too excited Cause here's the thing Guests I don't know why It's like I'm excited about that I don't get too excited Because here's the thing Guests I don't know why It's like I'm developing The thing Guests don't do well They suck at it usually

And I'm starting to feel like I don't know I don't want to say I've kind of already said it You could be jumping the gun here You might smoke it But I'm starting to feel like We

By There's like a Osmotic Is that a word? What's What's Can I get this before we go into it? And maybe it intrigues somebody to come see how the dumb Georgia Redneck does on this particular trivia. But what is the subject line?

Is it all hunting and fishing? I feel like it's just- Or is it going to music? Is it going to pop culture? It's all hunting and fishing stuff. And I feel like it's spread out around the country across discipline. But then there'd be people that come in like Jay Scott. I think of Jay Scott as like encyclopedic

knowledge about he's been like a guide for a million years, fishes, hunts, right? What'd he get? I think he got zero. He's got a real narrow focus of like very detailed. Was there any coups to your

questions? In defense of our guest, Jim Heffelfinger gave you a run for the money. He came in second. Tucker Carlson beat, I think he came in third place out of like 10 people. You beat Tucker, but Tucker beat me. Okay, I'm wrong. So Tucker was pretty good in the hunting

stuff then. He beat me. He did well. Really? There was a question where he was the only person to get it right. Okay, never mind. We'll see. We'll see. I gotta say, that's what you shoot for,

beating Tucker. No doubt, man. You'll notice when we put him up, the trivia shows, we decided to go Roman numerals, which is boring right now. But we were talking about

when we get into a lot of them, it'll be like the Super Bowl where you can't tell what Super Bowl it is. You just have to trust that it's a lot. There's Super Bowl XX, V, Y. So either way, never mind. Because Spencer just presented a lot of information to suggest there's not a guest curse.

And I think that it would be fair in future, Spencer, when considering a guest, maybe lean their way a little bit. Be like, when raising pecans. Now, I made this trivia yesterday. Proper spacing of pecan trees is A, four feet. Questions like that. Yeah, now I made this episode, or I made this

trivia yesterday, and a couple questions I was like, what else is going to get this right? Now I'm even more nervous and anxious and you're telling everybody you're throwing them a bone and if he bombs it's gonna be like geez they even leaned his way he leaned his way and he's still Bob okay tell us tell everybody the best way to go find bone collector to find you to find your uh pecans on a prayer yeah exactly um well

obviously social media you can go to bone collector we're on instagram facebook obviously i'm on twitter and then also just bonecollector.com so you guys got a lot of stuff on youtube we do we got a lot on youtube you know we still air on outdoor channel and uh obviously every nine o'clock eastern time we air. Or 9.30, I'm sorry. You guys' library's on My Outdoor TV, too? Yes, we're on MOTV, Bone Collector there. And then we got some other stuff that we're doing over on Waypoint as well.

Just trying to do our best to kind of spread the good word of the outdoors and having fun with it. Let everybody know it's for everybody. But, yeah, it's there. Y'all check it out for sure. We'll drag them down. Okay, trivia. Game on, suckers. Let's do it's there. Y'all check it out for sure. Go drag them down. Okay, trivia. Game on, suckers. Let's do it, baby.

All right. Okay, so stick around. Stay on the Meat Eater podcast feed and you will see Game On, Suckers Volume 3 very soon featuring Michael Waddell, the pecan farmer. Ha ha! Michael Waddell, the pecan farmer. Thank you.