The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 328: Test My Meat

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

Steven Rinella  talks with Kimi Werner, Kevin Gillespie, Sean Weaver, Ryan Callaghan, Chester Floyd, Phil Taylor, and Corinne Schneider.   Topics discussed: The MeatEater Laboratory’s new Warner-Bratzler Shear Force Machine; a hot tip on how to clean sausage stuffers and meat grinders; Peeps, cheap French bread, and critter flesh; how Cal likes his tenderloin smashed and fried; proper scientific testing methods; the antelope that didn't know what was coming; scoring tenderness; eating your experiment; how to submit your meat for testing; "Outdoor Kids in an Inside World" companion hot tips; FirstLite's Omen Stormshelter rainwear is out now; NWTF's Turkey Trek; Kevin's new show, "Sabertooth"; the science behind brining and preserving; how it's now legal to eat roadkill in WY; an obsession with excavation; socially tender; Kimi's first duck hunt on an episode of “Duck Lore”; when all ten toe nails fall off; truth and consequences in Truth Or Consequences; gummy bongo people and rescue trucks; how honesty is always the best policy; Steve's night in jail; know where you're hunting; and more.   Connect with Steve and MeatEater Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop MeatEater MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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First Light. Go farther, stay longer. Alright everybody, this isn't a podcast anymore. It's now a lab. If that wasn't true, then explain this to me. Why do I have this lab coat? Because you're official. Chester's got his lab coat on. We now, as promised, as promised in previous episodes, we have taken possession of, and we didn't get an industry deal on this.

Expensive. Yeah. Our very first piece of meat lab equipment. Did they even cut us a deal, Crenn? They did. Oh, they cut us a deal? Yep. What percent?

500 off. Oh, wow. Seriously? Yeah. Alright, so we still got thousands sunk into this thing. But I'm going to give them a shout because they cut us a deal from GR Electric Manufacturing Company. We have the GR

151. Do we have that and what one do we have, Chester? That one right there that you're looking at. But the 151 or the 152? Uh. Or do we have both? I think that, I think that it's both the same like machine, but the, the Warner Bratzler, this mechanism here where it actually shears.

Oh, that's the 152. the Warner Bratzler, this mechanism here where it actually shears. Oh, that's the 152. I think so, but I'm not 100% on that. Okay, so here, we're running the, what's that, Sean? You sound real qualified right now. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Definitely official. You sound like you know what you're doing.

Hey, we're running the GR-151 and the Warner Bratzler Shear Machine exclusively distributed by Tallgrass Solutions, Inc. out of Manhattan, Kansas. And what this is, is when someone comes and tells you, I shot a buck and it was so tough. My wife, you, the dog wouldn't. Right? We can now put a numeric value to wild game toughness. Call him out on it.

Chester the Tester has been, so he's back, full circle. Yep. Yep. That was your first nickname, right? It was. So he went from Chester the Tester. Tester the Pickles. I mean, Molester was first, let's be honest.

Well, I got to tell you a story. One quick second. Kimmy Werner's here. Kimmy, you know how tonight we were supposed to eat at the Timber Bar in Big Timber, but we're not going anymore? Yes. We're going to eat at my house? Mm-hmm. One day, I barely knew Chester.

And me and Chester were driving down the road with my kids. And we're going, we were out beaver trapping and we were going to get a bite to eat at the Timber Bar. It's called the Timber Bar, right? It's next to the Grand Hotel in Big Timber. So I don't know exactly what it's called. It is the Timber Bar, yeah. It's got a great neon sign. Barely knew Chester. And I'd already taken to calling them Chester the Molester.

So I was saying, well, everybody does, right? Chester, you don't like the story? It's a funny story. It's a great story. Okay. The nickname really, you know. No, it's bad. It's hard.

You're lukewarm to the nickname. It's hard on his mom. His mom doesn't like it. Listen, this is the last time I'm going to tell the story. Okay. Okay. Can I tell the story? Yeah, tell it. Fire away, Steve. I'm saying like it. Listen, this is the last time I'm going to tell the story. Okay. Okay. Can I tell the story? Yeah, tell it.

Fire away, Steve. I'm saying to him, well, everybody probably calls you that, right? Like, I just thought every Chester on the planet went by that name. He says, well, no, it actually never really happens. So we walk into the timber bar. Out comes the chef who wants to say hi mid-50s mid-50s woman yep probably she comes out say hi i say we like do our greetings i say oh these are my kids this is my friend chester imagine like a nice midwestern type looking but in the rocky but

in the northern rocks yeah i don't know she. She'd do just as well in the Midwest. Yeah. I say, this is my friend Chester. And what does she say, Chester? She says, oh, Chester the molester. Boy, Chester. So, like, seconds after he told me no one calls him that, then I knew he was lying.

He said, I've only heard that one other time, and it was from a judge. You have a legal background background ma'am then he became chester the investor when he got heavy into bitcoin sold his bitcoin and became chester the divester then uh he became chester the midwester which is a favorite of mine um now back to cheddar all kinds of just now back to Cheddar. Cheddar. All kinds of just. Now back to Chester, the tester, because he has learned how to run our wild game. It's our meat tenderness. Cheer force test. He was also a Chester. No, he was investor and now he was Midwestern.

Uncle Chester. It was investor, divester, Midwestern. Uncle Chesty. Oh, okay it was Investor, Divestor, Midwestor, Uncle Chesty. Oh, okay. Which Brad Leone named him. Because Brad was, I was telling, I was inviting Brad to palpate Chester's pecs. And when he, this is after Chester had spent his whole life rowing a boat. He was a professional fishing guide.

So he had to row that damn boat all day. And he was saying how his pecs were getting depleted after leaving that business. So I quit the rowing and lost his pecs. And started a lab here. Back to Chester the

tester. Now he's back to Chester the tester. The Warner Brassler Shearer Machine. What we're going to do, this is going to be an ongoing project. We already have in the lineup, we have Audad, which is universally regarded as the toughest game meet. I'm not doing it right now. But everybody that has an Audad will tell you how tough it is. So we're going to do an Audad.

I tried elk at my house. Okay. But we're going to do it again here for everybody. This is antelope. For everybody to listen to. We have a feral bull in the lineup. Yep. Collected

by one Cody Farian out of New Mexico. And listeners can just send in how should they do it? We are just making up those email addresses. Like we got like fucked up old taxidermy at themeateater.com. Yeah, we do like.

Test my meat. Okay. At themeateater.com. Someone better. Okay. Can you take a note to tell those guys that make that email address for him? Test my meat. Okay.

Send an email. We'll make sure it's. Can we make sure this is real by the time? Okay. There's an email. It doesn't. Okay. As you're listening to this, this email address exists.

Test my meat. Oh, no. I feel so bad for Corey. Test my meat at TheMeteor.com. Please make it legal. Oh, no, no. Here, let's do this. It's legally test my meat. What is the normal email address? Meteor at. Oh, no, no. Here, let's do this. It's legally test for me.

What is the normal email address? MeatEater at... It's like MeatEater... At TheMeatEater.com. That's the normal thing? Yes. Okay. Let's not make a new email address.

No, but we gotta help. The subject line... Subject line. Subject line, in all caps, test my meat. That way, Corey will see it, and he'll know to instantly forward it to Chester. Are you going to be able to manage this? No. Because I can guarantee you, no.

I mean, to a certain extent, yeah. Okay. We'll figure out who he is. Not during the tournament season, Steve. Not during the Walleye tournament, but you send an email that says TESTMYMEAT, and then you make a pitch. And Chester will weigh its scientific merit. With his backward hat on.

With his backward hat on. And he'll put his goggles on and read your email. And he will weigh the scientific merit of the meat. And he will decide whether he'll accept a sample. If he accepts a sample, you fire it off in the mail. Chester, have we- And you'll get your own custom reading. You'll get your own custom reading.

So when people say, when you say, this buck was so tough, in fact, it was a 5.2. Have we set a scientific sort of, have we decided what scale is tough? What scale is tender? Chester knows because he read all the manuals. Okay. All right. So we have that. I'm handing it over to Chester now.

Chester, explain the machine. Sure. So it's a sheer force test and you basically core out, which you take a little core sample out of whatever you want to test, whether that's a peep, which we'll be doing. That's a marshmallow peep. Hold on. Save that. Yeah, save that.

Just do it your own way. But people know what to, explain what you mean by a peep. Yeah. Not one of your friends. No, no. This is a little Easter bunny that if anybody had Easter baskets growing up, your mother would put some little yellow or purple Easter bunny marshmallows in there.

Yeah, Chester's actually holding a kind I didn't know. It's sparkly wild berry Peeps. Sparkly wild berry. They're really, really good toasted, like a toasted marshmallow. Just a little tip for everybody. Oh my. But, so we're going to test a peep and it should be pretty tender on this tenderness scale, which is an international scale.

Yeah. And we're doing, we're doing some simple things that everyone is very familiar with just to set, to help set the scale. Correct. And it's in kilograms. So let's say we test out this peep and it ends up being around a two that is tender let's say we tested this peep and it ended up being around a four that is acceptable let's say we tested it out and it ended up being a six that'd be one tough peep here's my here's a question about the scale because you're i feel like you're doing

there's two things happening with with how you're treating the scale on one hand it's like you're you're you're assigning an objective number sure to meet tenderness um which is which i applaud but then for them to say that a four, a two, a three is acceptable, then you've entered into subjectivity. So they're taking an objective scale, but interpreting it subjectively. Sure. Which is annoying to me. Well, in grading meat, I think they do that.

Like if they're testing a Wagyu beefsteak and they get a four, they're like, you know, that's, that's accepted. Like we can still send this out. Gotcha. Right. Yeah. I'm with you. Like the market will, it's like the market will accept it. The market will accept it.

So. That feels somewhat, that feels, that feels somewhat objective. It's subjective, but it's also relative. Like, and I think that's, what's important about it is that it's relative to other carcasses of the same species. So you're testing a bunch of beef next to each other and sort of grading it against one another. It's your lot. What's that? It's your lot.

So if you have four cattle that come in on the same truck from the same place. Right. Then I could see testing one. Right. But it's still, we're dealing with individual animals here. For sure. And I think that's what we're, I mean, we'll see. But I think we're going to see like drastic differences between same species, individual animals. Right. And the peep isn't technically a species.

No, the peep, like I think we're going to have a fairly universal reading regardless of what color peep we actually run in this. Chester's going to quarter the peep out. Okay, now explain one more thing. Here's a part that I didn't recall because I watched people do this in a lab with a

breed. They were breeding Wagyu cattle with limousine cattle. Yep. And they were testing the carcass attributes. I remember them cutting the little plugs out. Correct. But I forgot that you then go and stick the

plug in the machine. I thought it was measuring the force required to cut out a plug, but the plug is just preparing the sample. Correct. Yep. Do you want me to get into that? Yeah, I think you should walk us through doing a peep before we get into some.

What we're going to do today, because we're trying to milk this out because it was so expensive. Yeah. If this machine was like a hundred bucks, we'd probably use it this today and never talk about it again. Right. Because it was so damn expensive. We got to do this. We're going to milk it out and slowly test stuff. So that later when we look at the machine, we won't be like, oh, that was stupid.

Yeah. Right. So we're just going to get rolling today. Yeah. So let's, this, this little peep doesn't have muscle fibers. Correct. If he did, we want to make sure we be taking the course a core sample in parallel with the grain so when you're you stick it in the machine you're shearing it perpendicular across the grains gotcha so you get an even test so so you're cut you the machine is like yeah it'd be like if you're slicing a roast up and your knife's passing through, you're probably, when you slice a roast up, your knife is passing through cross grain.

Correct. Yeah, I'm with you. Yep. And a lot of the times when you bite into it, you potentially be biting cross grain. So that's why they have it like that. Another key thing to factor in when we're doing these tests is you have to cook the meat evenly. Let's say we had an elk sitting there and we had an antelope sitting there. You want to make sure- We're having a showdown between them.

You want to make sure the center of that meat is cooked the same or else you're not going to have an accurate test. And then you have to let it sit in the fridge overnight and kind of let things settle and harden up and then take your core samples. You'll get a better core sample that way. So when you folks out there start sending meat to Chester, we will be, we'll do this exact procedure. If you accept the sample, you'll like cook it

to a certain temperature, let it chill overnight. Right. Yep. And it'll be, it'll line up with the same temperature, let it chill overnight. Right. Yep. And it'll be, it'll line up with the same treatment, every piece of meat. Correct. Yep.

Got it. Any sign, any science stuff, you want to make sure you're doing everything the same way, or else you're going to get really varying results. You know, that's what I always say. Yeah.

Hey, what's cross grain on a peep? That's what he's saying. Yeah. Hey, what's cross-grain on a peep? That's what he's saying. We're just to set the, just to give people a, because everybody has had a peep. So we can't do that, but we're just going to give people a, for instance, a peep is blank. And then we can march from there and start testing once we have like a, we're just trying to establish a baseline with people off a universally recognized substance so i'm gonna cut cut this peep up here and it's like easter coming up yeah i'm not gonna use the core sample oh can i interrupt you real quick i'm in a bit of hot water uh wisconsin kind of screwed me because they made youth turkey season on Easter. I didn't check to see. I just like made the trip for my kids, like with minus their mom.

And then it was pointed out to me that it was Easter. Yep. Hot water. A lot of peeps to smooth that one over. Pointed out is very diplomatic You have to get a very nice Point it out is the most diplomatic way I've heard it put

It's doing a lot of work Well should we go for it Yep I'm not going to use the core sample for this Just cause I don't want to I don't want to get it all All shitted up To do the meat So we'll just use the knife here just because I don't want to get it all gooey. All shitted up, yeah.

To do the meat. So we'll just use the knife here. Chester's cutting the... Man, if you thought people were miffed that we did a whole thing on flint knapping without being able to see what we were talking about, that same crowd is going to be miffed about this. Chester's slicing up the peep. It's stuck to his glove. It's stuck

to his lab coat. He's got his goggles on. Yeah, this is getting more and more scientific by the minute. He's cutting a core. Can I see the core? Can you hand me the core? I want to describe the core to people. Yeah. This thing is

sticky. So I'm afraid. It's going to describe the core to people. Yeah. This thing is sticky. So I'm afraid. It's going to affect the results. Yep. It is going to just. Give us this bad reading. Mm-hmm. Hey, I was told.

If it doesn't work, we'll clean it up with some rubbing alcohol. That's a lab type thing. Well, I was looking for it. And then we'll go on to the white bread. Okay. So the core that Chester has looks like a shotgun choke. It's got a textured end, textured like a shotgun choke.

But it's just a cylinder, a sharp cylinder. I think that's about a centimeter, right? Wouldn't you say, Cal? Cuts a centimeter plug. Yeah. Did you turn the machine on? It's on. It's ready to roll. There's this emergency shut off button, so be ready. It's a big red button. If's ready to roll. There's this emergency shut-off button, so be ready. It's a big red button.

Okay, if things go to hell, Chester's going to punch that emergency shut-off button. Chester, I don't want to panic you, but your knife is kind of in the way of that emergency shut-off, so we could end up with another accident. We just discussed workers' comp a moment ago. You're already going to be in some dire situation, and then go to hit that, and then gas your

hand further on your knife. Okay, so it's loaded up. Chester will now hit... Wow, that is a real serious emergency shutoff. Chester just took a deep breath. Okay, hit the... Do we want to take a few peep core sample tests so we get a mean here? No, no, no.

I think just let's just hit it. See, now that was the most scientific thing I've heard all day. Okay, he's going to throw the switch. He threw the switch. It's shearing. Boy, this thing runs at a hell of a pace. If you blinked, you'd be able to wait and then

still see it. So that is.56 kilograms. Wow. Okay. Of kilograms of force. So if people know a peep, if you're trying to describe to someone, let's say you're trying to describe to an alien who's never had a peep, and you'd say to them, yeah, it's real. Well, let me just tell you, it's 0.56.

Chester, how scientific is it to eat the sample as you're doing the test? I've done that. Okay. What? Because that's what he's doing. As long as the test is over... Come on, Phil. Have you ever been in a lab? That's what you do when you're done testing a material. I'm so sorry. Okay, so a peep is.56. Chester, do you think we should move on to the bread

or just go right into a pronghorn? Oh, I want to see white bread. I think we try bread. Okay, we're going to throw some bread in. Maybe the bread will clean some of that peep out ofhorn? Oh, I want to see white bread. I think we try bread. Okay, we're going to throw some bread in. Maybe the bread will clean some of that peep out of it. Oh, there you go. That's going to do it. Hey, just a quick.

So scientific. Well, no, here's a quick tip for people. I've been doing this lately, and it works phenomenally well. You know when you're grinding a burger? Mm-hmm. You get done, and there's always that, right? Then you go to clean it it and you always have that handful that you then like the next morning, whatever, make a patty. You don't know what to do with it, right?

Because it came out in the end. Or like stuffing sausage into casings. You always get that little bit of bulk. Stick some old bread in there. Just fire it down the hole. And it pushes out what's left. And then when you clean it, you just got some old bread in there instead of having like more ground meat you got to deal with. Yep.

What do you think about that? What do you put in there to get the old bread out? What's that? So what do you put in there to get the old bread out? Piece of meat. Pork chop. Then you got yourself a meatloaf working A couple more eggs and some

Yeah, people don't realize it, but that's where the sandwich came from That's how the sandwich was invented Oh, you need your core? Yep, thank you Alright Okay, Chester's now taking a core sample Out of a hunk of Joe Blow Now, when I said get bread

I was picturing I was thinking like white bread. The problem is, I just realized, you can't get a core off it. You have to get it pre-sliced. You have to go to the Wonder Bread factory, and right before they slice it Don't do it! Isn't it hard

to picture that stuff? It's almost like it's made slice. You would shut the line down. It's like a Looney Tunes cartoon where it goes. And spits out individual slices. Exactly. Somebody.

I can promise you the people at the Wonder Bread factory would be like, they would hit the emergency stop button if you said, don't slice it. Push it out. Push it out with this peep lollipop thing. See, you know what? It's like you predicted the problem that we were about to have. Now, guys, for the record, we have bread stuck in our core sample. Yeah.

Cutter. This isn't made for bread. Weird. When you guys are making sausage and you're running it through the stuffer, how do you get the final meat out of the tube? Plastic wrap. What do you get the final meat out of the tube? Plastic wrap What do you mean? You take like a three foot long piece of Saran wrap

And you put it down And the auger will pull it And it pushes it through Pushes the rest of it through Like on a grinder Or in the stuffer It creates a little ball And it pushes it out

I don't understand I don't know how to better describe this to you I do something that I wouldn't do in front of anybody Okay I'd hold it up I'd blow it through That's what Chester's trying to do with that But explain what you're talking about

So we take a piece of like Your box of plastic wrap you have at home We're talking using a stuffer So we uncrank it Back up to the top and then we put a ball of plastic wrap. Like you just pull plastic wrap off the, you know, off the dispenser and ours are pretty big, you know, so it's like maybe 24 inches wide. So it's twice as wide as a home piece of plastic wrap. Yeah. And we'll pull like a three feet chunk, slice it off and throw it,

kind of ball it up and throw it in the stuffer. And when you crank it down, because it's plastic wrap, it changes its shape, and it will extrude that last bit of meat. Yes. And we do it with the grinder, too. So when you're grinding meat. Why are you nodding knowingly? Because we covered this like three years ago. I must not have understood then either.

Are you serious? Yes, 100%. The sausage suffers. Even if it's empty? I mean, if it's empty, there's nothing to get out of it, Steve. No, because the tube. Yes, yes. Because there's air pressure behind it.

The chamber is empty. Yeah, yeah. The air pressure behind it is going to push it out. That's a hot tip right there. Hot tip. Yeah. On your grinder, you got to be... Yeah, you got to be careful.

You got to be on your game. Yeah. Because you'll get little tiny chunks of plastic. Well, so with the grinder, we pull the front and pull the blade. Yeah. So we pull the blade off and then put the thing back on and then run plastic wrap through it. And the auger grabs it and pushes the rest of that meat out. And same deal.

Like, mostly it's air pushing. Exactly. It's just air pushing it out. Yeah. Okay. We're going to check back in with Chester the tester We now have a very Oh, you got a core sample out of the low for breath A very not great looking core sample Oh no, what are you talking about?

It's unappetizing It looks like a piece of, like a goose dropping Yeah, exactly I mean, doesn't squishing it and making it more dense like that That'll affect the results, right? Oh, man. Well, shit. Start over.

Old Naysay and Phil down there. It's like, here comes Phil with his logic. Yep. Listen, I got C's in my science class. I passed. Oh, oh, oh, oh. 0.27. Oh, even less than a peep.

If you went and bought a really low quality. $1. $1. $1 loaf. At Walmart. Okay. So this is a loaf of, what would they call that? They're not calling it French. Are they calling it a French bread?

Okay. But a $1 loaf of French bread at Walmart. It is twice as tender as a peep. Now, I just want to point out that we're testing the interior. We're testing the bread guts. We're not testing the exterior, which, by the way, is generally what people associate with the toughness of bread. It's the crust of the bread, not the inside. I've never heard anybody talk about the bread being tough.

You don't hear people talk about artisan bread, how it's hard to chew and stuff like that? Oh, yeah, I guess, yeah. Like a Sheboygan hard roll? That's exactly what I was thinking of, yep. A very regionally specific piece of bread. That's what I had in mind. So the scene is now set, and we're ready to just concentrate now strictly on game meat for the rest of the life of this machine.

Just so you know, you've all had a loaf of French bread before. A loaf of French bread comes in at.27 toughness. A peep comes in at .56 or.8, I think. Toughness. So we're not documenting these numbers.

We'll do the numbers. Can you scratch that down? Can someone scratch that down? Phil someone scratch that down? Yeah. Phil, what are you doing down there? Clearly nothing. Looking for a pen. I got it.

Okay. I feel like it should be like in a document. Yeah, exactly. We need a spreadsheet. Yeah, I'll make one. Because you know what? Whoever can sit... Should we...

Whoever sends in the Chester, the toughest piece of meat wins a prize. Oh boy. And you can't... And don't get creative and send in like your homemade jerky, by the way. Like don't be that guy. We can't do jerky that way. You gotta send in whole muscle roasts. Or we should do like whoever

sends in like a specific animal, like the most tender whitetail. We'll give a prize for the most tender meat that comes in and a prize for the toughest meat that comes in. What about a trophy? Are we opposed to that?

A trophy. It's going to be raised on a farm is my bet. Yeah. Well, no, it's got to be an honesty system, you know, because you got to submit. You got to pitch Chester on your meat when you say test my meat. Good picture of an animal would be nice. It would be interesting to test farm-raised game animal versus truly wild ones at some point.

Yeah, for sure. You hear that, Chester? I mean, just, you know, like go out to Uncle Jeff's and whack a Bambi in the alfalfa field. Yeah. Versus. You trying to do that to win the prize? Well, I think just all these comparisons, right?

Once we build up our data. This is going to be. Oh. Right. I think that's a great one. Yeah. It's up our data, this is going to be. Oh. Right? I think that's a great one. Yeah, it'd be like. Alfalfa, whitetail, home range of probably like a mile. Born in May, killed in October, lived on Uncle Jeff's alfalfa field.

Yeah. Probably never was more than 100 yards away from. Yeah. From the swather. The edge. Yeah. What's he score? Yeah.

Bluing teal that hatches in July, gets shot in September. That'd be a great one to do. I really am looking forward to doing some duck. All right, where are we at now, Chester? You ready to pull a core? You guys ready for the official first test here? We've been ready. Yeah.

What is it? So this is antelope. Steve gave it to me yesterday. How old is it? Pronghorn. It was a medium buck. Did you run it for five miles? Hop out of the truck and shoot it?

He did not know what hit him. Okay. Did not know what hit him. He was eaten. And me and my boy bushwhacked him from a haystack. Had no idea it was coming. Zero. And didn't take a step.

That's good context there. I can tell you this too, 309 yards. 309 yards, never took a step, didn't know what was coming. A medium-sized buck, so definitely a few years old. Opening day. His life was gone before the recoil settled on your shoulder. Yep, opening day. What was the day?

Like, what's the, do you know the date? August? Whatever the hell Montana's antelope opener was last year. No, it was October. Opening of general fire. Oh, gotcha. Opening day of antelope firearm. And we're going to put down there that it was drizzling.

And we got to be clear, this is a pronghorn, which is a goat antelope, not like a true antelope. Because we're probably going to test some of those at some point. The American pronghorn. Yeah, the American pronghorn. Commonly known and still known by all Western regulations, I believe, as the antelope. Yeah. Antelope capra americana. All right.

There you go. Thank you, Kyle this that's the kind of science i've been waiting for all morning this is a loin so what we want to do is typically you know or stand your mic chester all the time i know i said it's a lab but it's also still a podcast okay so the the muscle grain is going to be running long ways here on this. So we're going to cut out one-inch little cuts here, and then we'll take a core sample running parallel with the grain. Got it.

And we'll do six of them, and we're going to test all six. And who's going to be writing these down? Sean has it. And then we'll come up with the average, and that's how tender this guy will be. Are you measuring your one-inch cut? No, just... Jesus Christ. Chester, I'm going to say that we'll do three.

Do three? Yeah. Okay. Because when I was watching those people do the Wagyu limousine cow crossbreed, they were doing three. Okay. Okay. He sliced... Ooh, can I get a slice of that, Chester? I don't know how... cow, crossbreed, they were doing three. Okay. Can I get a slice of that, Chester?

I don't know how. Give me a little thin slice. Why she cut that is to make me hungry. You can eat the core sample. Did you put any salt on there yet? I put a little salt. We have salt on it? We're going to talk about that.

That changes the way the recipe is. I'll score that right now for you, Chester. Delicious. Wait, there is salt on it? We're going to talk about that. That changes the way the muscle grows. I'll score that right now for you, Chester. Delicious. Wait, there is salt on it? No salt. No salt. Okay, so what we got, because we're only doing three, we only need to make one of these cuts. But this muscle grain is running kind of this way.

So I'm going to take core samples out of this chunk here. Bing, bam, and boom. As they say in the science biz. Yeah, exactly. Is it normal to be able to wipe your hands on your lab coat? 100%.

That's what it's there for. Chester, you need a little poker to get your cores out. Well, he has a lollipop stick. That seems very scientific. No, I bet they make a legit poker that's true to diameter. Yeah. So it shoves it out real nicey-nice.

Hey, this is an important question. What cut of meat is this? Backstrap. Otherwise known as loin. Yep. Specifically short loin. Did you know when I was a kid, we didn't, like, we had, we called it, we called the back straps. There was inside and outside tenderloins was the nomenclature in my, when I was a kid in Michigan.

Right. That's very confusing. The inside tenderloins and then people would call the loins the tenderloins. There's the outside tenderloins. They still have that issue with pork loin. Like people consistently referring to it like as outside tenderloins. There's the outside tenderloins. They still have that issue with pork loin. Like people consistently referring to it like as outside tenderloin. Like that's how you end up

with the tenderloin sandwich that's actually made out of a pork loin as opposed to a tenderloin. In my opinion, that's the only way to eat a tenderloin. Like I'd rather have it smashed and fried. Right. I'm like a pork chop John.

Yeah. I mean, there's no, no real flavor there. There's not enough fat. I mean, if I'm eating a pig, I want fat. Yeah. There can be fat,

but unfortunately. That's, well, that's a whole separate lab based podcast. We discussed the fat content levels of various and assorted.

WR and X machine. Yeah. Yeah. $70,000. Yeah, exactly. Start saving up now. Yeah. Yeah. $70,000. Yeah, exactly. Start saving up now. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, we were doing this house of oddities to secure some land access, but now we're just going to use it to secure some random lab equipment. Okay. Chester is loading in a piece of American pronghorn backstrap off a medium-sized buck. Bushwhacked from a haystack. Never knew what hit him. 2.7, I'm guessing. Oh, that is tender.

Wow. That is some tender-ass meat. 1.33? Mark it down as 1.33. My elk was 2.5? Yeah. 1.33? Wow. Mark it down as 1.33. My elk was 2.5? Yeah. Okay. 1.33?

Dang. No, 1.33. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. 1.33? That's the first test. First ever test, 1.33. And we're doing six tests of this? Is that what you said?

We're going to do three off this. And you're supposed to do six, but I watch them do three. We're going to do three and average average and then we'll log it and and uh sean had an interesting thing that he if if a good scientific experiment about toughness go ahead about the geese oh yeah it'd be great to have banded birds if someone would send in like a you you know, a confirmed banded bird, I can't imagine there'd be anything more tough than like a 15-year-old Canada goose. And you know it's 15 years old. That's true.

And we could run that through there. You might win the trophy. Or a t-shirt, whatever the hell. Yeah. Oh, test number two. Here it goes. What? So that was the one that was towards the outside yeah let me explain that to people so you know when you cook a chunk of meat right the inside's more red or pink the

outside's more cooked when chester ran his cores he had one core veer over into the cooked end of the roast, so to speak. And that piece scored a what? 2.26. 2.26. Whereas the very rare middle scored a? 1.33, right? Yep.

Wouldn't, I mean, do they give you like a method to how you're supposed to cook this? Yeah. Gotcha. When I watched them doing it in the lab, they were doing it on these little electric grills with these real fancy probes, these temperature probes in them, real specific about it.

Gotcha. And they had lab coats. So should we not like vac bag this thing and sous vide it? Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That'd be the most consistent way to tell. But if that's not what they push. But I don't care what they say.

Because they don't say to jam an octopus tentacle in there, which I'm damn sure going to do. What they say is it's a temperature thing. If you can get the middle part of that meat, like if it were an antelope or an elk, the same. And then let's say like this one I wrapped, seared the outside, wrapped it in tin foil, let it rest, threw it in the fridge overnight. But if I were doing the elk, I would have got the exact same temperature. I think sous vide is the way to go.

Sous vide's got to be the way to go on this. Because we could put a thermocouple through the bag into the meat and actually check the core temperature during cooking. Yeah. Then you can run a whole bunch of samples when they start pouring in. So now we got to get that. We got to get- Test my meat. Serious vacuum sealer, a thermocouple. Thermocouple, what I'm talking about for that is like a, we got a thousand dollar investment.

Okay, here it goes. Here it goes. 1.47. So that was, again, more of the middle there. 1.47. The average, Sean, one second. We'll do one more. This was more of the outside.

He can't stop. I'd be curious if you put your finger in that hole and turn that on. You can try. What it would take to shear your finger. Let's see, Steve. How tough is Chester's finger? Not that tough. And then we just test each other's fingers to see if there's any variation.

He's bagging it up, and he's loading number four in. He's addicted, man. You can't stop, dude. Chester, are we supposed to take these? His wife's going to be like, this Warner Braxler's coming between us. Who's this Warner Braxler? Why are you spending so much time with him? That was like a little bit

towards the outside again. 1.86, Sean. Okay, so the official score of a medium buck American pronghorn not run around ragged not hauled around in someone's truck

for three weeks while he shows everybody how big it is. 1.73 is 1.73. That's pretty dang tender. Cal's like, I want the most tender

part of my meat gone, please. Cal's holding up a chunk of it with a hole cut through it. How is it? Needs salt. Very tender. Yeah. Very, but yeah. And just so people know.

Empirically very tender. What was its score again? 1.73 was the average. Okay. And when, and I'll back, 1.73 is a low score, would be regarded commercially as tender, and when you eat it, you would say to someone, my God, that's tender. Yep. That's nice.

Agreed. Was it tender? Mm-hmm. Okay. You guys both got your mouths full. So ends the Warner Braxler part one. MeatEater at TheMeatEater.com. Is that the

general email? MeatEater at TheMeatEater.com. Send in your pitch. Test to... Your pitch to Chester. Subject line. Subject line, all caps, test my meat. You say what you got, why you think it's interesting, why you think it's interesting,

why you think it's a contender for most tender or toughest meat out there. And we will determine, we'll report back with what the prize is. Steve, should we ask them to send that kind of relative information we're looking for? Hunting conditions, general thought on age of the animal size, that kind of stuff? Yes. And if it's accepted, we might have more questions. And if it's accepted, we might even have to do Phil's favorite thing. Squadcast

you in to witness the testing of your meat. Test my meat! With Chester the Tester. Oh, it's going in his Instagram bio now. Chester the Tester? Oh, yeah.

It'd be hard for me to get rid of. See, now I'm afraid Chester's going to wind up with a show on A&E or something called Test My Meat. Chester, just imagine

which scientific journals we're going to be able to publish this data in down the road. I know. That's exciting. Chester, we're going to move on to other subjects right now,

but I want to close this segment out by saying that you're probably doing science that no one's done before. No one has, when this is said and done, we'll have tested a wider array of game meets from around the world and there's no way anybody's ever done this. I better read a few more books about this.

Yeah, I can almost guarantee or any books. I can almost guarantee that I don't know if you're going to find any books about this. None of the other Shear Force blades had peep residue on them

while they were doing the test. To my defense, I actually did some research on this. Did you? You did some reading? Is there any way we can get Chester an unpaid internship somewhere that does this? Know you? You did some reading? Is there any way we can get Chester an unpaid internship

somewhere that does this? You know what we will do for him? It's critical that it be unpaid. That way it doesn't sully his opinion of it. I don't want to do that. That sounds too complicated. What we will do is we'll get his lab coat embroidered with Chester the Tester. That's as close... Those are basically parallels.

And a big dragon on the back just cause. The hat has to stay, too. You need to come up with your own formula, though, just to ensure that you're doing everything the exact same. Oh, for sure. And then your own note-taking as well. The reason why we're just doing one piece, but I would imagine, because we already did this, let's say we get an elk in or that,

what is that? Wild beef that you got in New Mexico? Yeah. Wild caught. I'm going to cook it the same way as I did this. Yeah. Keep it consistent. So it's all consistent.

You kind of got a Matt Damon groove with that. Somehow you look like Matt Damon now. Oh, in Good Will Hunting? I don't know what show. With his backward hat and goggles? Yeah. He's going to start fighting townies. Do I have that?

Aren't we doing the sous vide thing? Yeah, I think the sous vide is the best way to get it consistent. Listen, now we got a bunch of armchair lab people. Chester, do your thing, buddy. Yeah, Shauna. Who's doing the test over here? Yeah. Yeah, all right.

But God forbid. We're going to move on. I got one last. I know I had one. I got another last thing to add. Here's why sous vide might, here's why they might be right. Because when we jam

an octopus tentacle in there, right, you could also put that in the sous vide for at whatever temp. Yeah, you can do it all at the exact same temp. And then just snake the octopus tentacle in there and pull it until it's tight and then. But then again, like octopus, the way we would

cook it or the way like Kimmy would cook it or Kevin, they tenderize the heck out of it before you'd eat it. So would I, would I beat the heck out of it? Like Kimmy does on, on rocks before I, I tested in here or. I got an idea. Sean will make a separate document. Here's how we do it. He's going to make a separate doc. It's a separate research. It's going to be, that document is going to be called octopus various ways. Put one right out of the ocean. Have Kimmy beat one with rocks.

Boil the piss out of one. Right. And it'll be like a, like that's a whole different publication. Yeah. This, I think, I think that's, that's's a whole different publication. Yeah, this. A whole different publication. I think that's, that's like a lifetime

worth of work. Yep. And I think you can skip that. No, because every octopus you get eight chances. You can do. Last I heard. You can do

a little bit of research, come up with the, the mean temperature and duration of cook for octopus. So you're hitting right in the middle.

And I think that would be plenty. Yeah, and you can't just jam the tentacle in there because then you're testing surface tension as well. Don't follow. Plot thickens. By tightening it like that. So you take your ceramic. Oh, jamming it in there.

You don't want to jam it in. Yeah, because, well, the outside of the octopus has a membrane on it that's substantially more tough. Yeah, but we're going to, for this publication called Octopus Various Ways.

Octopus Various Ways. And the meat either signs or... Eight ways to cook an octopus. Yeah, I think we should peel the outer skin out and then have Kimmy come out and she'll have to count how many times she hit it with a rock.

And just describe the general attributes of said rock. Do we cut the tentacles off and then we start doing the different things with a single octopus? Okay. One octopus. Just checking. Eight ways. Got it. This thing's gonna be too much fun. Okay. One octopus. Just checking. Eight ways. Got it. This thing's going to be too much fun. All right.

Moving on. Thank you, Chester. You bet. We will get that embroidered for you, buddy. Thank you. Hey, folks. Exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness, do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes.

And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada. The great features that you love in on x are available for your hunts this season the hunt app is a fully functioning gps with hunting maps that include public and crown land hunting zones aerial imagery 24k topo maps waypoints and tracking that's right you were always talking about. We're always talking about OnX here on the Meat Eater Podcast. Now you guys in the Great White North can be part of it, be part of the excitement.

You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services handpicked by the OnX Hunt team. Some of our favorites are First Light, Schnee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer, you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. OnXMaps.com slash meet.

Welcome to the OnX Club, y'all. All right, everybody, moving on. A couple of announcements. So Outdoor Kids in an Inside World, the book, we got a pre-order special. We have, it's kind of hard to explain. This gets into a little bit of how the sausage is made. When we did the book,

Brody, we worked on this whole thing, this giant, what do you call when you add something on the end of a book? I forgot. Addendum? No, not an appendix. Addendum. We had not an appendix. Addendum. We had a giant addendum, which was like recommendations, instructions, insights about how to, that'll, if you have it for your kid,

it'll cover you for like 90% of outdoor excursions with your kids. Stuff about kids, gear, sleeping bags, all kinds of resources, like different States about how to get your kid, like what you need to do to, for light fishing license purposes, how to get like a great little starter fishing kit. We built this whole thing and we're going to jam it into the end of the book. And I think that it will, I don't want to say that cause I'll kind of ruin the incentive. Future versions of the book might include this,

but not now. It's not in the hardcover, which launches on May 3rd. But if you pre-order Outdoor Kids in an Inside World prior to the launch date on May 3rd, so you got one more week to do this, you will receive the additional 50-page digital free resource guide. Not digital free. It's digital.

The 50-page digital resource guide, not digital free. It's digital. The 50 page digital resource guide for free, chock full of additional recommendations and insights. It'll be emailed straight to you. So you're going to, we're just going to like give you the thing in digital form because it's not going into the book because it was just too much info, but it's like meticulously crafted info. Head to TheMediator.com to find the announcement, which guides you to the page where you can enter your purchase information and register for free for the guide to then be emailed

to you. Another announcement, First Light's Omen Rainwear is available. This is, I'm going to keep this brief because we have a lot of stuff to cover. I was a big fan of First Light's Foundry line. I thought that was like one of the greatest things that ever happened to hunting duds. The Omen Rainwear is unbelievable. Unbelievable rainwear. I spent a lot of time at this fall.

I took it on a doll sheep hunt. I spent a week trudging around in the rain and wet snow in Prince Wales Island, use it checking traps off my snowmobile in the winter. Very durable and just like impeccably designed. I, I, it's, it's, I'm not kidding when I say it's the best rainwear I've ever had on my

body. The Omen Rainwear line out now. Cal, tell them about NWTF Turkey Trek. Surely, Steven. So, National Wild Turkey Federation, if you're a spring-loving turkey hunter, you got a lot to thank these folks for. The volunteers, the biologists,

the whole organization. And coming soon, we're going to be updating everybody on our you know turkey season and we'd like you to do the same by using the hashtag turkey trek and becoming a member of national wild turkey federation if you do if you go sign up you're going to be eligible for some sweet prizes but that's not why you should do it. If you do it for that, you're just kind of a freeloader. So tell me again how they sign up.

You sign up by becoming a... Yeah, you become eligible for the prizes by signing up for a one-year membership at National Wild Turkey Federation. Gotcha. Gotcha. And all of us who are going to be out in the turkey woods this, this very near spring are going to be talking about this and directing folks where to go during this like campaign time.

Yep. Uh, which will be the end of April. Yeah. And if you love to hunt wild turkeys, you owe a, uh, debt of gratitude to the National Wild Turkey Federation, who, like, I don't want to downplay contributions of state agencies and all kinds of other individuals, but the driving, this is a fair statement. Would you say this is a fair statement? Well, oftentimes federal and state work hand in hand, too. They're a cloacal kiss away from being the same on a lot of these efforts.

NWTF in large measure drove the recovery of the American turkey. Fair statement. With many partners. Fair statement. But funding, expertise. If you like to hunt turkeys, you owe a debt of gratitude to National Wild Turkey Federation. COVID was hard on them because they traditionally do a debt of gratitude to National Wild Turkey Federation. COVID was hard on them because they traditionally do a lot of events.

They raise a lot of money doing events. And when events got shut down, it was hard on NWTF. It was kind of hard on their model. So all the support you can give there. I spend a month hunting turkeys every year or more and you know, on and off. Right.

But a phenomenal organization become a member. They put money on the, right? But phenomenal organization. Become a member. They put money on the ground. Great, great organization. The head of NWTF, Becky Humphries, has been on the show once or twice? Twice? She's great. Lend a hand.

All right, another announcement. Kevin? Kevin Gillespie. Yeah. Lab coat on. Yes, very serious. Tell everybody about Sabretooth. So Sabretooth is a new show that we're making.

Chester's got a Sabretooth sticker on his computer. It looks good. That was quick. Yeah, it was quick. We like to turn them around quick here, Steve. I just got mine. I hadn't even decided what to do with mine yet. It's going on your computer.

I already picked it out. Sabretooth is our new show. The idea behind Sabretooth has been, it's actually, today's a perfect day for this because for years I have listened to chef friends, to just layman's, to hunters tell me that the value of wild protein, of wild animals is below that of farm raised. They're not as good, you know, quote unquote, ah, they're just not so good. Like if you want really great meat, you know, it's prime beef, it's stuff like that. And I've just for years disagreed and said, no, I don't think that's true. I think it's just that you guys don't understand what to do with it. I don't think you understand the possibilities. And I referenced back years like, you know, professional chefs in Europe, people like Paul Bocuse, the person who literally has had three Michelin stars longer than anyone in the world will pull farm farm-raised duck from his menu and put wild ducks on during the season because he thinks they're better. And so my argument has been that it's all in the eyes of the beholder,

and more importantly, it's in the eyes of the people doing it. And so we decided to create this show, Sabretooth, really to kind of fill out what feels like the obligation of meat eater, which is to help people see this entire experience of hunting and angling from the start to the finish. And that doesn't mean that it ends when the animal's down or when the, you know, when the fish is in the boat, it's that next part is oftentimes for a lot of people, the hardest. And so Sabertooth is a show designed around hunting and fishing, but then we take it one step further and we really show you just how far, um, just how far it can be

taken, you know, culinarily. In the first episode, we're hunting hogs in my home state, uh, feral hogs in my home state of Georgia. And then we bring them back to my restaurant gun show. And we put together a 13 course tasting menu using feral hogs, large mouth bass, white tail deer. Got some large mouths. Yeah, man. Got a, we have a really big pond on this exact same property, and so we caught a ton of largemouth.

Like I said, we got white-tail. We got some really cool stuff, and we just really throw down in this first episode. And then subsequent episodes kind of change around. In the next one, Jesse Griffith and I are going to be working with scimitar-horned oryx in Texas with Daniel Pruitt. Did you know that Cal and I got to cuddle With did you get to cuddle with it I didn't want to butt in

You and Corinne Corinne and I did some cuddling Cuddled A baby scimitar horned oryx What a calf Bamberger Ranch Preserve in Texas They are doing a captive Breeding program To supplement a reintroduction effort in Chad.

Yep. In Africa, in the Sahara of the scimitar horned oryx. A female had just dropped a calf. Cow. A cow had just dropped a calf. And man, they don't want you to pick that thing up. They had to pull up to it. Picture you pull up right alongside it with a truck

and then open the door. Where you normally stand to try to take a whiz on the side of the road when no one's seeing what you're doing. Right. And snag the little calf up into the truck that way. So basically the same method you would use to abduct a child. Sure.

If you had a snatch-em-up van. Yeah, take a whiz. Just pull up on the side, pop the door open, take a whiz, do an abduction. Chester, can you verify that? Yeah, exactly. What kind of candy do you use to lure in? Same technology. And then we took it into the back of the pickup, cuddled it.

When you say cuddled. I think its heart was racing. But I read think its heart was racing but i read it as a call i read it as a cuddle okay i think he read it as a very one-sided experience i think he read it the calf it was a bull calf i think he read it as um a near-death experience yeah for sure and corinne kind of got like after, she got second snuggle. It was interesting though, because I didn't like the, didn't have the crazy eyes. No. Of like ultra fear and panic.

I think if you went and picked it up a week later, it might look a little different, but it was a little out of it. Yeah. That's pretty cute. I mean, so actually I'm glad you brought that up because in that second episode, we really are kind of going down that path of explaining. We chose Scimitar Horndorix on purpose because there is a really interesting story about the fact that there are a lot of people who are like they have no business being in Texas. And that's probably true. But at this point, there's a really huge opportunity for reintroducing something into its native range that would otherwise be extinct. Yeah, we got into that. It was kind of like there or nowhere,

right? Right. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. But yeah. So for folks who are fans of meat eater- Did you guys run a Warner Bratzler on that sucker? We haven't, but I'm going to bring some in. That one's going to be on my list because I think that's one of the most tender that I've ever had. Well, we'll find out. We're going to see. We're going to see if it's better than American antelope. Did you save some backstrap? Tons. Well, not tons, but we have some, yeah. Enough for those little cores. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I probably got a one ounce piece that we can core out. Perfect. Since that seems to be all we need for it. Perfect. But yeah, so for folks

who are fans of our meat eater show, who are in it to watch hunting, you still get that in Sabertooth, but then we just take it and we kind of go a different direction with it and really explore how great this stuff is. And my goal, if we do this show right, people are going to get a lot more excited about learning how to be better cooks and to focus on what they can do with these animals once they have them. You were going to do us another favor and clear up some things we've argued about a handful of times about brining. Oh, okay. What do you want to know? Yeah, let's do it, man. Well, I had a thing. I can't remember who I was fighting with.

You. No, no. You just said to me, we were discussing mountain goats, and you said, don't tell me that brining doesn't work. And I said, it's not that it doesn't work.

It's just that it does something that I think people don't understand what it's actually doing. Okay. So you take a chunk of, okay, it's St. Paddy's Day. Okay. It's St. Paddy's Day.

Are we going to go corned beef? Is it the brine? I mean, that's, okay. Let's use corned beef because something very different happens with corned beef. Tell me more. Okay. All right. You're turning it red. Let's start this from the very beginning.

All right. So with brining. Brining is, for everybody, I'm sure you all know, it's the idea of creating a a water and salt based solution that you're going to put some sort of meat in with the overall goal, right it in a way that's sort of somewhat misleading. So here's what happens. Like most of muscle fiber is made up of something called myofibril. Myofibril is what allows us to store water inside meat. So an animal itself has a basic salinity level of about 7%. No kidding.

Like naturally. Really? Yeah. And fish and meat have almost identical salinity levels, believe it or not. When we introduce a brine, we're attempting to increase that level in order to do two things. One is to create an osmotic reaction where the fibers, the myofibril actually holds or encapsulates moisture, in this case water. The other is to tenderize it.

And the tenderization actually takes place because the salt disrupts the natural chemical bonds of the protein. And so they can't do their normal tightening up thing the way that they would normally. And so it appears more tender to you. I don't think it actually, if we ran it in this, I don't think it will actually be more tender, but it will appear and seem more tender to you. I don't think it actually, if we ran it in this, I don't think it will actually be more tender, but it will appear and seem more tender while you're eating it. You got that, Sean? That's the third publication. We're going to try it. We're going to see. I actually, I don't know. If that publication is going to be called, what's actually up with Brian and something? I don't know that that test, honestly, Steve, I don't know if anybody ever has

tested empirically to see if it is more tender, but it is acknowledged scientifically that it will seem more tender because the muscle fibers can't fight back with the salt concentration. I cannot wait to take a hunk of deer meat, throw half of it in a brine, half of it not, and then have Chester goggle up and run them buggers through there. All right. So, but here's where, here's where the train comes off the tracks is that salt does all those things that I just said. It causes that osmotic reaction because there's a, in there's an imbalance of the natural salinity of the meat to the salt water concentration. And so what happens is that it triggers the meat to sort of expel its moisture and then to bring it back in at a new salinity level because what wants to happen cellularly is that it wants the outside and the inside to be the same.

And so that's how you get the water into it. And the myofibril basically open up and they hold just water. And that's the key point to this is that what you're tasting in the extra juiciness is literally just water. And so that's why when you brine something and you put a bunch of stuff in it to try to make the brine taste better, you only taste it on the outside because that stuff can't penetrate the cellular wall. I've had that explained. Yeah. And I think you and I discussed this about when you see brine recipes. Right.

And they're like, add a half bay leaf. Yeah. Don't do that. Are you like, really? Really? Right. Don't do that. You'd be better off to create some sort of seasoning mix on the outside.

That's what you're saying. If you want it to have those attributes, put them on it. Yeah, put them on it. Right. Put them on it. Don't trust that it's going to soak up some residue on the outside where you can just apply it at the ratio you like. Right. Salt and sugar are really the only two things that are of any value inside a brine.

Salt, sugar, water. And you really don't need to make it any more complicated than that. Salt, NACL. Okay. Can I back you up on one of the things you mentioned? We can maybe even look this up. You say an animal has a salinity level.

Do you know any salinity, like a Campbell's chicken noodle soup, do you know what that is? I'm just curious what they're talking about when they say that. What the volume of salinity in processed food is? Yeah, like what did you say an animal is running around on the hoof? About 7% is what they believe.

Okay. You know, 7% parts per million kind of thing. I got you. And so, so anyhow, so we got this brine, and there's been a lot of studies on this. You know, Cooks Illustrated published a brine recipe that ends up being about a 15% salinity, and they said that their test proved that that was the best.

The University of Georgia, which has one of the best meat science schools in the country, and actually has literally an expert on brining, her published recommendation is that it should be about half of that, about 7.8%. They have a brining expert. Yeah, they do. Yeah.

Believe it or not. UGA, go dogs. So anyhow. How about them dogs? I thought they had that job. Yeah, we got a dogs. So anyhow. How about them dogs? I'd like to have that job. We got a salt brining expert. How about them dogs? That'd be such a better job to explain to people.

Yeah. When they're like, what do you do? Well, let me tell you. Yeah. You a fan of corned beef, are you? Yeah. So then, all right, let's flash forward to corned beef. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Because this process with the salt just keeps going. But at a tipping point, it starts to do the exact opposite thing. So salt, once you reach a salt concentration or a salinity level, really north of 15%, in my opinion. Some people say it's north of 20. I've seen numbers as high as 28% from a brine solution. That what will end up happening is that you will try it at some bitch out. Correct. So what'll end up happening is that the exact opposite will take place. The salt

chemically, when it breaks apart in a NCL, so you have sodium and chlorine, so, or chloride. So those two things can bond to the, they can bond to the chemical elements of the meat itself and more importantly, the water in the meat. And so what they end up doing is that they then break the cellular structure of the meat itself and draw the water back out of it. And so that's how with corned beef, the corning, you've actually dried that meat out. It is not as juicy. There is less moisture inside the muscle fiber than there would have been if that concentration of salt was lower. A great way to witness that, dry brining fish. Correct. So my boy this winter caught a big trout through the ice, and he wanted to smoke it.

And we made up a salt sugar, salt brown sugar. And I had him pack it in there. I'm paraphrasing, but when he opened the fridge the next day and opened it up, he said something to the effect of, holy shit. Because it had turned to liquid. Yeah. And I was like, that's all the liquid that was in your fish. Right. And he ended up with something. It's now totally saturated and turned all that salt and sugar into a slurry. And then if you took that salt level higher, that's how now you're into the world of like Grovlox and Nova and stuff like that, where you've actually pulled moisture out.

So then that goes into the world of preservatives. And like, why is salt a preservative? Because salt concentration at a certain level will actually pull the water out of bacteria and it will kill the bacteria. So it basically will starve the bacteria of the necessary water that it needs. And the bacteria will die because of it. That's what's happening. Yeah. I knew it was happening, but I didn't know that that's what's happening. That's what's happening. And it's interesting that people knew something was going

on for thousands of years, but maybe not quite what. Right. And then, you know, people, I'm sure we'll go, but wait, but you have a lot of salt and other, so it's not all bacteria, things like lactic, lactic bacteria, like what you expect in sauerkraut, for example, like fermented foods. Um, they're not affected by losing that moisture content. They can still stay alive. And those are bacteria that are good for us. So that's how you can select for the one, the help. Exactly. So the ones that, the ones that are harmful to us need a certain water content and they can be killed by salt. Kevin, with you explaining all this stuff, I now understand why you're such a good cook. I thought you were going to say, you now understand why you got that lab

coat. Yeah, exactly. My lab coat's real. I real a goose brine this year for you know trying to make corned beef and it was by far and away the most simple brine i've ever used and and the best right by far and it just came out like perfect beef like it was a canada canada geese that sean and i shot in North Dakota. And I ate three goose breasts in a week, you know, proving my, my theory. And, and then I was like, okay, I know I'm going to get a bunch of geese in December. And then I never did. And I'm fricking heartbroken. And it's, you know, people, this is like a miss piece of misinformation. of misinformation because people talk about preservatives and buying food without preservatives, you know, and they think that when you go buy a can of organic tomatoes, that means they don't have preservatives. Like they still have it. The preservative is salt or

it's sugar or it's both of those things. And so the idea that they somehow are lacking preservatives is completely false. They just aren't using modern, you know, modern food production uses a blend of a lot of different ones that attack very specific bacterial growth. So the reason this is in there is that addresses this bacteria. And so that's why you might see a laundry list of them because they're going for longest shelf life possible, obviously. And a lot of bacteria is anaerobic. So sealing it up doesn't make any difference. And sometimes, in fact, it makes it worse. What does the sugar do?

So the sugar, because of its chemical compound, so it does a couple of things. So the sugar in it, sugar is also a liquefier. So it does the same thing that salt does. It will pull moisture out and those cells will try to achieve that same balance. The real reason you put sugar in a brine is to affect its overall flavor. Like it just makes it taste better, but it also does accomplish some of that osmotic reaction. You also will increase surface caramelization and a handful of other things. But at the end of the day, most scientists will tell you that the main reason that we

put them in there is because we think they taste better at the end of the day. Like we're doing a lot of this for our personal, as Steve was talking about with the Werner Bratzler, like, you know, and they set the, you know, we set, okay, this is, this is what it's, this is acceptably tender. And you're like, that's not scientific. That's just our opinion. Well, this also goes from science into opinion at some point where we think in our opinion that it's better this way and it's the same as the scientists will argue with you that it isn't juicier or it doesn't increase like there's no more juices in the meat that's just water and we would say yeah but the extra water like conveys the extra salt and seasoning and everything else and it tastes better

like at the end of the day we just think it tastes better. It's like those fancy chef types that are like, oh, you have to clarify your stock now. I'm like, no. I want the clouds and the stuff in there. It tastes better. Yeah, but the clarifying stock, I think it was just like, it is cosmetic, right? Oh, it has to be.

So your consomme is clear. That's in a whole other... We're going to have to save that one for a separate podcast. We'll save that one for later. You know, we've got Sean's duck report. We'll have Kevin's salt report. Kevin's consomme report. Love it. Kevin's consomme conclusions.

Kevin's salt report. Yeah. Hey, folks. Exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada.

The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. That's right. We're always talking about OnX here on the Meat Eater Podcast. Now you guys in the Great White North can be part of it, be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function.

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Welcome to the OnX Club, y'all. Watch this transition. You know how the Warner Bradsler sheer machine is a machine? Sure. So is your phone. And on your phone, if you live in Wyoming, you can now download a new mobile app that tracks roadkill. It's more complicated than that. Wyoming just joined the 29 others.

It's so surprising to me. So surprising, yeah. There are now 30 states where it's not, where it is not a criminal act to eat an animal that a car hit in front of you. Interesting. Roadkill. Thank goodness.

Eating roadkill. We grew up, I mean, I would say all the time, but I would say most years at some point we claimed some portion of Michigan. You claim some portion of a deer. You had to call the police and tell them you could bring it home and the cops that come out and give you a permit, whatever. It was just a thing you could do. Some guy in front of you clips the deer in the head and keep it.

For a long time, you weren't allowed to do that in Montana. And I always wanted to go to court. I wanted to do like a civil disobedience thing and go to court and be like, yes, your honor. I ate a piece of a deer that someone's car ran over. Like guilty. Throw the book at me. Guilty. Right?

Just to see what he'd end up saying. But then they made it legal. Wyoming just did the same thing. So now 30 states that will allow people to collect roadkill for food in certain circumstances. It warrants pointing out here that Alaska, it's a long-winded thing. But not only that, they have a waiting list in Alaska. You can get on a list. What?

Yeah. Fairbanks, Anchorage, you get on a list. Someone hits a moose, go down the list, start calling phone numbers. Because hundreds of pounds of food. Yeah, that's great. I like that. I actually ate roadkill moose in Alaska. Did you?

I stayed with a family who was on the list, and they got a whole hindquarter. It was big. Yeah, and think about the moose, too. It's like they're so big. Even if you clocked, let's say you clocked the back half of it, there's still 200 pounds of it laying in the front half of it. But Wyoming has this thing now, so you can download a mobile app. It allows you to claim roadkill, but then also it collects the data to help highway officials and biologists decide where to put signs

that warn of animal crossings on roads. And it could even have, who knows, some kind of long-term implications for wildlife crossings. State wildlife and highway officials rolled out the app, which they're saying possibly the first of its kind in the U.S., which I read to mean

they don't know of any others, but didn't spend that much time looking. Yeah. Probably safe to say the first of its kind. They just didn't want to overstep. They're just claiming it. They didn't want to overstep. Yeah. Probably safe to say the first of its kind. They just didn't want to overstep. They're just claiming it. They didn't want to overstep. Yeah.

They're being modest. Possibly the first of its kind in the U.S. This winter, when they joined the 30 or so states that allow people to collect roadkill for food. So it's a department transportation app. You can quickly claim accidentally killed deer, elk,

moose, wild bison, and wild Turkey after documenting the animal and reviewing the rules for collecting roadkill to eat. Another thing is there's some rules around it. Like they don't want you out in the dark along certain highways. They don't want you out in the dark on construction zones. Right? So there's some, they kind of wash you through it. Like they don't want you out in the dark along certain highways. They don't want you out in the dark on construction zones. Right.

So there's some, they kind of wash you through it. A gripe I have with Montana's road kill law. Once you touch everything, you got to take everything. Oh, okay. Guts and all.

Oh. You can't gourmet butcher on the side of the road, which is like the normal thing. Yeah. Right, right, right. If, if some guy in front of you hit a deer in the head, you might just strip out the back straps. You can't gut it.

The whole damn thing. So, Steve, what's the law if somebody hit a buck, you take the whole thing, the whole animal? The whole thing. What happens if you want to get, you can't get it taxidermy though sure you can could you yeah it doesn't no it doesn't come across you having like a tag issue it's not yours like that's not a poaching you concern you claim the animal and then uh highway patrol or montana fish and game uh validates that for you right in montana that's how it works i i wish he was here to explain this i had a friend that had been watching in this in montana was watching a big white tail on a trail

camera and they found it dead here's how the story went they found it dead but it's like 50 yards off the road okay he's like obviously got hit by a car yeah dragged itself into the woods and died. He wanted the antlers. Called and couldn't get it sorted out and the state took it away. So does the animal still have to be by the roadside? But what about the whole roadkill thing? Right. That's what I'm saying. It was too far gone.

He's like, I don't know. If you're going to do like a knee crop, see how it dried up carcass you found out in the woods and tell me that it's whatever, but we don't know that that's what happened to it so it isn't the distance from the road it was the time from death just wasn't fresh yeah it is funny like in november peak deer rut in montana i mean you see a lot of decapitated roadkill yeah in montana like yeah sure oh yeah i mean you see it in georgia as well you know like you go down the road and you're like, oh, that must have been a buck. Doesn't have a head anymore.

One time, I was hunting with my buddy, Julian, and I had already like tagged out. I can't remember what it was. I was just sleeping on the couch

and he left in the dark to go deer hunting, but then got back in the dark. I shouldn't tell the story because it would... Never mind. Well,

we'd all been drinking. So... What I was going to tell is the story of an individual That wasn't his name His name was definitely not Julia I was screwed up about that part But anyways came back very quickly Before it was even light out

With the deer Because he Picked up a hit one Tagged a hit one A roadkill And he thought that's good enough for me Because he picked up a hit one. Right. Tagged a hit one. A roadkill. And he thought, oh, that's good enough for me. Yeah.

He's like, back to bed. But I can't remember his name. Oh, Chester has the app up. The Redskill app? Yeah, you can just like say I hit a badger. You can? I don't know. Oh, I thought that was an option.

You can line. Are there animals to select from or you just type it in? Animals. Yeah. So it says report a roadkill. Then you click on that. And there's antelope, bighorn, sheep, black bear, coyote, deer, elk, grizzly bear, moose, mountain goat, mountain lion, wild bison, wild turkey, and wolf. Those are the options.

I feel like if you were reporting a bison, that would already be reported by the giant-ass car accident. It was still right there. Yeah, and there's like a little map that pops up. I haven't found any fresh road kills. Oh, have people been getting in there? Oh, yeah, man, look at that. Passionately. So this is through the Wyoming Department of Transportation.

So, like, this has the icy roads and all that. Oh, they got it all clouded up with a bunch of stuff no one cares about. But also part of the point of the app is so that people can see where there are an increased number of collisions and that people know where to put up whatever state agency. Maybe it's the Department of Transportation. I don't know. Or not the Department of Transportation.

Whatever state agency in Wyoming would put signs up on the side of the road to say like Animal Crossing, you know, be careful. Maybe you can drop a pin on where there's a police officer staked out checking speeds or whatever. Maybe that too. I think there's a police officer staked out checking speeds or whatever. Maybe that too. I think there's another app called that. It's called Waze. Yeah.

Quick correction. I have to make a correction as well when you get a chance. Is it about what you just said? I realized that I said 7% to you when I meant to say 0.7%. Got it. An animal is 0.7. I didn't know enough about what we're talking about. I don't want some scientist calling in and being like, he's wrong.

It's.7, not 7%, is its natural salinity. Which is why a brine of 7% creates the ideal scenario. Corinne, do you want to do your own correction? Sure. Okay. Corinne's got to hit a correction. She screwed something up real bad. Big screw up.

Not a huge screw up. I thought that the South Dakota bounty for youth trappers, the youth season was in its first year. So that was my bad. This will actually be the fourth year. Many folks from South Dakota wrote in about that. But a couple of folks pointed out that the reason why the bounty cap is at $590. Yeah, we were wondering, like, why can't a kid who just poured a colds to it make a ton of money?

They cut them off at $590. Yeah, it's for tax purposes. I guess you can probably go up to just under $600, in which case you'd be issued a – $600 is like the cutoff minimum for where you'd be to shoot a 1099. And they don't want a 1099 on all these little kids. Well, and hold on. It's not just kids. The early part of this is kids. The youth trap.

That's what we were kind of covering is that they let the kids get a crack at it first. You know the thing that because I listen to you guys talk about it and obviously I live there and see it. Sean was all the people writing in. No, no.

I just wrote like 25 separate emails. It's been a busy week. Yeah. You drive by plenty of skunks and raccoons on the side of the road with their tailbone and tail gone. Really? Oh, yeah.

Man, you should have said, you should have said, you should have said, hey, you know how we were just talking about roadkill? Well, yeah. Man, you should have said, you should have said, you should have said, hey, you know how we were just talking about roadkill? Well, get this. Transition, Sean, transition. Well, you guys already rolled in. A layup.

He had a transition layup that he missed. I'm sorry. It's a learning opportunity that he found right there. The school of both. Sean, quit writing angry emails in when you could be learning on. Learning how to segue. Yeah.

I was thinking about your learning opportunity for public speaking last night with young Mr. James, too. That was good. Yeah, he almost went a little overboard in the end there. I mean, my hat's off to him. I opened up, I opened up. That was good. Jimmy, I allowed it.

I invited him to do like a greeting over the dinner table. You know, and you say like, thank you all to come. There was nothing overboard about that. That was just beautiful. It was good. You poured the coals to it. Chester, how's that chocolate covered

peep treating you? The dude's eating the evidence. That is awful. No, we didn't decapitate that one. No core sample. That's the actual bird, not the bunny. It's a marshmallow with sugar on it. Is it better than the regular peep?

More flavorful? Oh, yeah, for sure. Purchase with the mediator amex. But like I said, Kevin, you toast these with the sugar on theex so you know but like i but like i said kevin you toast these with the sugar on the outside it caramelizes it if you like a toasted marshmallow right we should have run it we should have run it you guys take the advanced chef talk uh like if there's a fellow in the room with a restaurant that needed a good idea yeah okay just say hypothetically if only we'd run a graham cracker behind that peep instead of a piece of bread, we'd have

been two-thirds of the way to a s'mores. All right, Kimmy Warner, what's been going on? Tell me something about yourself that I don't know yet. That you don't know yet. I feel like I have been spending way too much time listening to songs about excavators. Because you have a child. Because you have a child. Because I have a child. I was like, I'm sitting here trying to think of one song about an excavator.

Even earlier when I was like, oh, Chester, don't they call you the, I was thinking investigator because it rhymes with excavator and I have all these excavator songs in my head. Can you give us an example? So your boys in that era were like machinery, earth moving equipment. Anything. Any, yeah, heavy equipment. He corrects me

and he's only two, but he'll tell me like, no, it's a front loader. So yeah. So he wants to be, if he could pick his career right now, it'd be earth mover? Yeah.

He thinks so. And then whenever he gets a chance to like ride in one, he just gets so nervous that he puts both his hands in his mouth and freaks out. Like that's how excited

he gets over excavators. Wow, really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. I'm going to have to go talk to my neighbor. He keeps one of those

parked in his backyard all the time. That would make his day. Huh. Think about that. Would he, does he like any kind of machinery type stuff? Any kind of contraptions?

He does. He likes forklifts. I mean, I'm just going to say all the words he's saying to me every day, but forklift, bobcat, front loader, even big trucks. Big old bobcat. Yeah, big trucks, car carriers. Foreman's busting my hump, Mom. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Oh, man. Overtime. Dude, that reminds me of such a good... You know, we told the Dirty Dan joke. That reminds me of another Dirty Dan joke. No, we didn't tell it. It's so good. It's bleeped out.

The whole thing's bleeped out. Oh, I thought you just bleeped out the bad words. Oh, well... Did you bleep the whole bunch, Link? No. We hear you say rats. Big beep. Oh, okay.

That's good. I want to hear the other Dirty Dan joke. Oh, it's so good. It has to do with contractors. His experience is hanging out with some contractors. Are we going to tell it now?

No, no, I'll tell it tomorrow. Okay. Other than that, I'm just, I'm happy to be here. You hung out with Kevin and filmed with Kevin. I got to hang out and cook some octopus with Kevin yesterday, and that was amazing. Subjectively tender. We haven't run it through the Warner Bratzler yet, but we feel like it was tender. It was totally tender.

Socially tender. Yes, socially tender. So good. That's the name of my new album. It was. Dropping soon. Socially tender. tender yes socially tender so good that's the name of my new album i'm dropping soon socially tender and uh and you're gonna you're gonna be working on a spearfishing series i am i didn't know we were allowed to talk about that it says don't say too much okay

that's what karen you just summed up everything we could say it's still totally in the works. Nothing has been filmed yet, but we got a lot of good ideas for this four part series of spearfishing that will be on Meat Eaters YouTube. That's going to be exciting. I hope so. Yeah, I think so. People like watching spearfishing stuff. It's fascinating.

I mean, it's like taking someone to another planet. Like you literally are leaving the world that you know and being able to be the eyes for people who don't get to get down there and see it. And maybe won't. And maybe won't. Yeah. So I really like it. I think it's fascinating no matter what.

But it's been really nice to see that so many people who don't even live by the ocean, how fascinating it is for them too. Yeah, for sure. Uh, and then you did like an early, was it, was it your first duck hunt? Oh, absolutely. Yes. With Sean here. Yeah. Sean, famous for, uh, you might know him from Sean's duck report.

Sean Waver. Yeah. Sean, famous for, you might know him from Sean's Duck Report. Sean Weaver. Yeah, very famous. Yeah, duck hunting is something, I mean, I don't, I never knew a lot about it. I just really liked the idea of going out and getting a duck or a goose. And I didn't know there was a big difference between those two. Where do you start throwing them buggers on the old Bratzler? I know, right? Then we'll see the difference.

But growing up in Hawaii, it's just apparently we're the only state that doesn't have duck hunting. They don't, Sean? Yeah, Hawaii is the only state without a waterfowl season because Hawaii does get birds that migrate down, like pintails and stuff even and they don't want to like persuade those birds to not migrate to hawaii because it's such a wild because we're the most isolated land mass on the planet so they're afraid that if there's pressure put on them they'll just be like oh we'll find somewhere else to go is that gonna you're not gonna like you're not gonna use that to fulfill that little tidbit right there to fulfill your contract obligations about Sean's duck report, are you? No, no, no.

Because you could have milked a whole one out of that. Okay. You could have milked a whole duck report. I don't want you to now claim it as like check it off your list, but just a heads up. Yeah, that would have been a good one. You could have done a whole duck report and be done for the month. Maybe I'll write an article on that. Yeah, that's a great idea. That'd be a good one. You could have done a whole duck report. Well. And be done for the month. Maybe I'll write an article on that. Yeah, that's a great idea.

That'd be a good one. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. So the whole Hawaii chain is a duck refuge, pretty much. I had no idea. And so it's as fascinating to me as the ocean, for someone who hasn't seen the ocean, because you don't go out and shoot a duck or a goose and eat it. And that's the only things that I read about in little fairytale books and stuff.

So the whole idea of bringing a duck home and putting it on the table just seemed literally out of this world to me. And then Cal came to visit when you guys all came down to go spearfishing and he brought me some mallards and gave me very... Fat ones. So fat. And gave me very specific instructions on how to cook it. On not to screw it up.

Not to screw it up. Exactly. Cal's always trying to train me. You went negative. Cal always is trying to tell me not to screw it up. And so, and I didn't, and it was literally one of the most delicious things I've ever eaten. And so that just elevated my infatuation with the idea of being able to get my own bird so much. Can we back up on the Hawaii thing for a minute? Is that prohibition on duck hunting so ingrained that people just don't even...

What's going on? Are you digging around in the peat bag? No, I was just... People just don't even think about it. Is it so ingrained that... Let me give you a for instance. In Michigan, you could not hunt doves because of some goofy law.

But everybody around you can hunt doves. So people would... Not a day goes by. That's an exaggeration. Not a month goes by. Someone does a bitch about not being able to hunt doves. No, it's not. I wouldn't say it's the same at all. And I think it's because we are so isolated that it's not like we're just looking over

our shoulders and there's a state right next to us hunting doves. You know, it's like we're on our own. We're in the middle of the ocean, the middle of nowhere. And so I don't think we have that comparison. I don't even think it's a thought in most people's heads. Like I didn't know that we were the only state that didn't have duck hunting until Sean told me that. I just knew that I've never seen somebody bring home a duck.

You know, I was in one of the times I was in South America on a river trip down there, there's birds, like every kind of bird all over the place all the time. It's just like birds, birds, birds, you know? And the Amerindians, they know what they are, but there's only certain like ones that look very grouse-like that they're interested in. And they have this sort of catch-all phrase for

edible birds. They know them individually, but sort of catch-all phrase for edible birds. They know them individually, but sort of the same way we'd say like game bird. Right. They have a word. Well, one day it's kind of seemed very out of place. You're in the jungle, but here comes a duck.

It looks like, I don't know what it was, but it looks like a hen mallard. Lands on the side of the river out in front of us in the jungle. And I thought for a second, I wonder if these boys, if that's sort of in their game bird, on their game bird radar. Right. And as that bird landed, the bows that came out of the bottom of that boat.

And I was like, okay. They're onto it. They're onto it. Don't need me to help with this one. Very short-lived thought. You were like, I want, yep. Yeah, that's one of them. So I'm going to talk about duck hunting with Sean.

Yeah, so Sean gave you an invite. Okay, cool. Yeah, so basically, well, you gave me the invite, Steve, because I started talking in Hawaii about how I always wanted to you know bring home a duck and so then you invited you introduced me to Sean and Sean were you pissed when I did that no I was no I I love the idea of getting someone introduced to it to even see what it's about because for me the knowledge goes like so advanced on some things that to back it up to square one of like okay we want the wind at our back okay that's a duck no yeah no that was a huge thing i was like

is that a duck he's like nope that's a yeah that's a turn that's a turn that's a seagull and like i like i hands down am the most green person that Sean ever took. The biggest newbie ever. I never even shot a shotgun before. I was, like, intimidated by it at first. When he would say, like, start talking about the different parts of it, I had no idea what he was talking about. It was all so new to me it was like such it was first of all such a privilege to just like kind of come in and have someone like sean be there to show me the ropes

but like it was just i was i was in awe of it all like the fact that i know they're called blinds but we got to like build a fort in the wilderness that was so fucking cool like like sean's like yeah go get those you know dead old um tumbleweeds i'm like a tumbleweed i only see that on cartoons like it was all like i was giddy i was just like oh my gosh and like home decor like make this a pretty little fort and um yeah and and i asked him a lot of questions where I just saw, like, his face kind of go into shock. And realized that he had to really back it up with how fundamental we had to go to teach me about duck hunting. But I loved every second of it. Yeah, that was definitely the exciting part when you would texted me about me and Kimmy going duck hunting.

I didn't realize quite how basic I'd get with it. The night before, we're talking about hen and drakes. I'm like, okay, wait, no. So that's male, female, stuff like that. It's fun to get to that level. That was the exciting part. I never wore waders before in my life. And I remember how small my boots were and I had to pull them on and borrow your pliers every day.

Yeah, we had to use like a, her boot size was for what her actual foot size would be. Yeah. Right? But not with big heavy socks on. And then she was, you know, she was wearing stocking foot.

And so she had to use like a monkey wrench to like... Jack the Boudin. I was actually... You know what happened to her after that? I said,

Steve, a picture of me plucking off my toenails. All the toenails fell off. No. They're disgusting. You don't want to see my feet right now.

I mean, just fell off me. They look like naked hairless kittens or something. I don't even know. You may not tell me that. I sent Cal a video too. Yeah, she said everything. Just like, I mean, like just the toenail, like, whoop, there's the toenail. Yeah.

Oh my God. In that video, there's Buddy's little commentary going, ew, ew. Yeah. Okay. That. From the boot. That is just another... I was in excruciating pain. I was just really happy to be there, so I wasn't complaining.

How the heck did you handle that? I had the... I lost a few of them one time just from walking down a steep hill in an ill-fitting boot, like a long walk, and I could feel it. Yeah then and then i don't know what it was i don't know a month later a couple of them came off yep that's just another evolution in the in the suffering that we went through suffering that that hunt was it's a good way to keep a kid happy i took my toenail off uh for my. That's why I did it.

Oh, yeah. Just couldn't. He was like running circles around the chair. Like couldn't quite grasp it all. When he's in his 20s, he'd be like, it's kind of weird. I had his uncle's toenails were always coming off. Yeah, but he kept saying, ew, ew, I want to hold it. Right?

Yeah. Painting emotions. Hey, folks. Exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness, do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew. Our northern brothers get irritated.

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That's right. We're always talking about OnX here on the MeatEater podcast. Now you guys in the Great White North can be part of it. Be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function.

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You guys hunted a place that a lot of people don't um regard as a big duck hunting state and i remember what our buddy carl malcolm was down there for years for work and he would get into little ducks now and then in new mexico and i remember always being surprised by that because i you know you form these um everybody does it like you form these impressions of places. You don't think that a lot of like people, I guess where I grew up, don't think of New Mexico as having right. Big. No. Alpine.

Right. Ski areas. You just imagine it being like a bunch of. Desert and cactus. Yeah. You think it's like sand and cactus for whatever the hell reason. Right. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. And likewise, you don't think of it as a place that Leopold was doing wetland research. And you don't think about all the riparian areas. I remember being shocked to learn that the mountain men would work down into New Mexico quite frequently beaver trapping. Yeah. And I'm like, how could that be true right and they're ice fishing too big walleye state well they ice fish yeah it was my decision to go there um you know that and kimmy frankly was supposed to be on a different hunt originally than this hunt. And my whole original idea was to get heard of the Salt Lake and experience all the variety of Salt Lake.

But, uh, you know, with me catching COVID and few other things going on, like didn't work out scheduling wise. And, uh, I was like, you know what, we can still make this work if we go to New Mexico. And where we went in New Mexico was a place I'd never been, which is a lot of the kind of the, you know, it's not the entire premise by any means of duck lore. But we like to go places that are figuring it out, right? Go figure out ducks on our own, not just taking necessarily the shoe-in thing. And so I was going in blind as a bat on this, but we decided, you know, on a place, and we were staying in a town called Truth or Consequences. My favorite town name of all time.

Yeah, they were like... It was the game show, right? Yeah, tell that story. Kind of a goofy deal. Oh, yeah. I think they should go back and change it back. I don't know. I like the name now. Yeah, tell that story kind of goofy deal oh yeah i think they should go back and change it back i don't know i like the name now yeah tell the story yeah i think we actually finally gave it it's like credibility yeah but we'll get into that so yeah truth or truth or consequences was uh originally named hot springs and then probably the 30th hot springs in america probably yeah and

the i think the mayor back in like 1950 or something changed the name to truth or consequences after a game show a radio game show that he liked and so try to lure, it was like the game show was going to go record an episode. Right. In whatever town would name themselves that. And the town voted to name themselves that. And then that game show host would go there like every year for the rest of his life. And it's just so, it's disappointing with a name that badass. Well, that's the thing.

That's what Sean said when he first picked me up. He's like, man, I thought this name was so badass. Oh, yeah. I thought some heavy covered wagon shit went down there, man. You know what I mean? He's like, I thought cowboys were taken out to the desert and given the chance to tell their truth. Or if not, they're left there to die. People cannibalizing each other.

I don't know what I thought. I like oh a name like that your mind can go wherever you want like no it's a game show yeah no it's a little lackluster but uh so yeah that's where we went and uh like started kimmy off right like throwing her into the fire of learning how to duck hunt. You know, we, we had no local contacts. We had no one there like teaching us about the area. We just started driving around, showing up at water and scouting ducks. And the first night we went out scouting or the first day i should say the amount of ducks we found in this one spot was just staggering i mean one of those spots where i'm giddy with laughter

and i'm that good were you chuckling yeah yep and you know max is going bananas with the long lens filming non-, just stoked. And we're like, you know, this is about as good as you can ask for it to be. And I even remarked to Kimmy, this just seems too good to be true. I'm not going to get my hopes up. Huh. No. And.

Oh, I know where this is going. Sorry. Go ahead. So, yeah, the next morning we so what we had found where we were there was uh there's this little island on this west side of this lake and we were kind of pulled up on this island watching these birds and there was birds all around us out east of us towards the main big water the lake wrapping around north of of us and settling on this west bank to the west of the island. And with what the wind was setting up to be, we decided we were, instead of setting on this island, we were going to set on this west bank.

And that was kind of our game plan for the morning, which proved to be maybe the worst decoy setup I've ever set in my life. One of those ones where, like, when the sun comes up and the birds are flying and you realize, like, just how bad you screwed the pooch and you're, like, not in the spot. It's like they like it 100 yards that way. They hate where we're sitting and um but i mean there are so many birds that it just like that wasn't like the end all be all by any means and kimmy i don't know how far how far into the hunt were we? I mean, I think it was when the sun had just come up not that long ago.

It was pretty early on in the day because that day did end up being pretty slow. Like we saw a lot of birds off in the distance, but as far as any coming and landing in our decoys, it didn't really happen. But in the morning it did and some teals flew by. And I just remember like the intensity like of you just being like, there it is, kill them. And I missed. I missed the first one that flew by, and then a little while later, another one came, and I was able to nail that one and get my first duck. Yeah, on her second shot at a duck ever, kills a duck. That's great.

Which was just impressive, you know, because it's, I can remember my first duck took a box and a half of shells before. Yeah, but you probably like schooled up in, from spearfishing, you're schooled up in how to like track and. Maybe. Like track and lead, right? I would hope that the instinct is there, but I was just, I was over the moon surprised and just so so ecstatic oh my gosh i was so happy we were both like that weird moment of where you're

giggling with happiness but also like on the edge of tears you know just because you're so stoked about the moment and uh i think we shot three ducks at one yeah you shot two it was pretty slow but we like at least kind of got that out of the way it was pretty slow and when the sun came up it was directly in our face too so and the east side of the lake um was smashing ducks there was a bunch of hunters over there and my goodness like the shots coming from over there and so we were kind of in this moment of oh there's that local knowledge right like they knew something we didn't know we saw all these birds over here but they're shooting them up they're banging them over there and uh anyway so we picked up and get back to the to to the boat ramp and, uh, Ranger is there and he's just moving

the dock and Max gets out of the boat to go get the truck. And it's like a long walk back to the truck and he offers Max a ride and Max jumps in with him to get a ride back to the truck. And on their drive back, he asked Max where we hunted. Max goes, the west side. Wait, no, the east side. And that was the extent of the conversation. And then they just, like, talked about other things. And Max even brought that up when he came down back to us. I was like, what did you guys talk about?

He's like, oh, he just asked where we hunted and whatever else. I said, well, you know, you tell him we were over on that west side. He's like, yeah, I couldn't remember. I was like screwed up on where we were. He said, I got turned around. I said both. Which is just like, just one of those things. It's like, it's the damnedest thing um

anyway so so that afternoon we went back out and checked out that spot and um or like that island with the wind situation is going to be the spot to be. We need to be out on that island. And so the next morning, that's what we did. And we had like this just, there's like a nice little nook in this rock to put a boat in and like, you know, nice little flat spot to put a blind on. And you're just like, oh, this is perfect, you know. It was really nice.

Even as someone who doesn't know anything about duck hunting like everything about that setup just felt perfect and right when the sun came up like ducks just started flying in everywhere it was it was action it was amazing and um it was just like turned up a hundred times from the day before. And I kind of felt a lot more confident now because I already had the first monkey off my back. And I just started shooting and birds were just dropping. And it was just the most amazing day ever. I just like when Sean told me to do something, I did it and it worked.

And Kimmy was crushing it. Like truth is, she's just smoking birds. Meanwhile, her toes are toenails. Right, yeah. And, yeah, I mean, she shoots like this Drake pintail, that eight-inch sprig, you know, big, beautiful winter pintail. And it's just like something dreams were made of of how the hunt worked out and you're getting singles and pairs and i don't even know what a what a stud or what a trophy is all i know is that i just see sean like shaking and being like oh my god like yeah i'm like this is amazing really stoked on how you couldn't have wrote it up any better for me it was cool to see a variety of

birds too you know the day before it was three teals that we shot. And on this day, we're talking like pintails. We saw hen mallard. We saw wigeons. I shot a drake wigeon and teals and all kinds of things. Gadwall, I think. It was the best education and the most glorious feeling of victory. We were just on. and uh like that that hunt

was wonderful it was just perfect and after that hunt we head back to camp and we're talking about you know how awesome this is all going and sean's like this is the best episode of my whole season already it's in the bag let's go do a plucking scene you know like we're we're good and um so that's what we went to do went to do a plucking scene yeah that afternoon we went and we were gonna go just you know pluck our birds and and honestly get some time lapses of sunset stuff like that yeah and uh we drove because my truck was just stuffed full of, you know, everything and hooked up to the boat. And we're like, yeah, we'll just jump in the rental, which is two-wheel drive. And not to throw him under the bus, but Max is driving.

And we go down to the, we go down to this sandy sandbar area, and for whatever reason, he just pulls off the packed two-track and sinks that sucker right up to the frame in real deep sand. And we tried digging it out for an hour. We tried a lot of stuff. We tried going around gathering wood and shoving it under the tires. We tried rocks. We tried a lot of stuff. We tried going around gathering wood and shoving it under the tires. We tried rocks. We tried digging. I'm using chunks of lava rock

to try to like dig the frame out. I was texting Cal what do we do? And eventually we get to the point of Max goes to walk up to like the closest house.

Because he felt so bad because he knew that yeah his driving did that. So we're trying to call a tow truck by now like the closest house. Because he felt so bad because he knew that, yeah, his driving did that. So, so we're trying to call a tow truck by now, but I think Max just like

was not going to accept that like financial defeat. And so he's like, no, I'm going to set off on foot and go knock door to door and I'm going to find us, you know,

some help. Yep. And, and Max gets to this house where he finds a guy that's, I don't even know how to describe this guy. Well, Max was like on speakerphone and like knocking door to door. And then he starts getting distracted and be like, wow, this one house has all this waterfall and gear in it. And no one's home, but man, this gear. Sean's like, keep knocking, keep walking.

Hold on, like he's casing the place out for a theft? It's like laying in the yard. He was looking in their windows. Max is like, we're going to be best friends. Yes. No, that is what he was doing. That is exactly how Max is thinking about that. You know, he's thinking of it like, hey, another duck hunter.

We should all be buddies. But then he gets to this one house and this guy opens the door and says, are you the FBI or CIA? And Max is like, neither. He's like, then come on in and have a beer, man. And apparently the guy's wife is playing the drums, and you can hear the drums in the background, and Max is trying to give his pitch of like, you know, we just got stuck in the sand down there.

Do you think you can help us out? And he's like, I'm retired. That's what I live for. Hold on. Let me find some more gummies and find my keys oh my gosh yes and so and max is on speakers this is all happening but i've been calling tow truck and now we end up in this situation where this guy is coming with his truck and the tow truck's already on the way i'm like max if the guy is you know having gummies like probably don't need him to come pull

us out you know and uh he's like i don't know he he really he said i'm coming down he really wants to help oh quick note uh we should run a gummy through there through the brass it's gonna turn into a full-time job here. But apparently while the guy was looking for his keys, this big black mysterious truck that we've been seeing around for days. With duck boat. Yeah, like that. They were heavy. I don't know anything about tires and duck trucks,

but all I know is these guys were frothing over some truck envy every time we saw this truck somewhere. And even when we first got stuck, Max was like, well, what if we found the guy with the black truck you know and and that black truck pulled up to that house while the guy was looking for his keys did not live there but just wanted to introduce himself and say hey i'm gonna be your neighbor for a while and that what yeah yeah no this was a weird trip and and max was like oh my god it's the guy in the black truck. And so he went up to him and told him.

Hold on a minute, one sec. Max is talking to the gummy bongo couple. Lady's still playing her job. And up pulls the black truck guy to introduce himself to the gummy bongo people. Yes, exactly. While Max is there. Yes. And while they're going to get the truck that they wish they had access to.

Looking for the keys for his truck. Then the cool truck pulled up and Max was just like, you know, hey. Like gave him the same pitch. And then so he showed up. And he brings a friend. Yeah. So yeah, the black truck. What is the pitch?

Are you like, help us. I mean, Max is the most friendly. Yeah. You know, I just witnessed max giving free beers to elderly he's not trying to do a transaction he's just trying to get help yeah he says i don't know if he had a compensation package put together no okay in return for helping us and so uh the the like older gentleman in this in this big black black truck has a friend with him. And he's the guy that lives in the house with all the duck hunting stuff. And anyway, they agree. They come down to help.

So now we've got two trucks that come down. One with the gummy guy and the other, the black truck crew. Mysterious black truck. And we got a great big convoy. Yeah. So they get out to hook up and like we're laying out kind of how to get this thing out

safely and easily. And the guy in the, the two guys in the truck get out and the one guy comes over to introduce himself and Max is like just kind of staring at him a little bit. Like looking at him

like he recognizes him and he comes over and introduces himself and uh instantly both max and i are like holy shit like this is a guy that max has known for years since he was 13 probably and used to work with and um you know he's this guy isn't just like a run-of-the-mill guy that you like run into every now and then as a buddy from town this guy used to be like a really big name in waterfowl hunting and purposely took a step back and like got complete like went radio silent no one knows where he is anymore got out of the industry are we not saying his name we're not saying his name yeah oh yeah because he does not and i don't i don't know that country so i don't know his name but i will just say that was sort of forced into this it was willful forced into taking getting out of the industry no he he did yeah it into this or was he willful? Forced into getting out of the industry?

No, he did. Willful. Yeah, he was willful. Yeah, he wanted to just disappear, I guess. But Sean and Max were just like, you don't understand who this is. This guy is a legend. He was the man. And the fact that he's the one here with the black truck that we've been seeing around,

and he's here to save us like this is amazing yeah and so you know it's kind of just one of those just weird serendipity moments you're like this doesn't make sense how this is all shaken out so anyway he gets us pulled out and uh we're going to leave and And he pulls into his place. And I stopped by there quick. And I'm like, I got to go, you know, say thanks one more time. He absolutely saved our can. And walk over.

We start chatting. He goes, so where did you guys hunt today? I said, oh, we hunted over on the, we hunted over on that island. And he goes, uh, you know, you can't hunt there. Right. And my heart sank. I can imagine. I'm like, what do you mean you can't hunt there? There's no signs.

There's no, there's nothing on, you know, on X. There's no signs at the boat ramp nothing he's like yeah there isn't like you're not gonna see signs or anything but you you can't hunt there according to according to the the state park that manages this this lake and i'm just like i'm begging him for any kind of information right i'm like you got a map or anything he's like no i'm like well it's not on their website you know he's like no it's not like but you can't hunt there and so then i'm like you know shit max come on out here like what time is it oh what is? 10 o'clock at night?

9 o'clock? It's probably 9 o'clock at night. I stayed in the truck when they jumped out to say thanks because I was just cold. And I'm like, man, they really love this guy. They're really saying thanks to him. We should really get home. This is a long thank you. But then they got back in the truck and the energy was just very, very different.

We went from on a high. To this episode's in the bag. This is the best thing ever. Like to just like, holy shit. Gut rot. We just did everything wrong. And when you told me that, like, oh man, like I can't even. To process that feeling of having a day that just felt so special.

You know, I mean, that's what it was, is that we're all just like enjoying it and celebrating it. And just every single bird that we shot, it just like was something that I felt like the most sentimental, victorious moment ever. And then to experience it together was so great. And I was just like living off of this fresh, fresh buzz. And then to be told that what we did was illegal was the most depressing, tainting feeling. And I didn't want that to be true. My, I didn't want that to be true. Like my brain just didn't want that to be true. I just wanted to find a way where that wasn't true.

Because I just, that was a reality I wasn't quite ready to accept. And we had no, the other real hard part about it was that I'm por over stuff on my computer just trying to find like any way to confirm this and you know the state park is closed and there's no phone number for them and there's no way to figure out how to get a hold of them and eventually honestly looking through some um like emergency information i found on a forum somewhere you know recognize that like who you're supposed to call to get a hold of the state park is you're supposed to call the county dispatch like you're calling 9-1-1 pretty much um and we know we can't do that till the next morning pretty much because they're not accessible they're not available the like the the rangers aren't yeah um i had i had texted cal earlier just when our car was stuck and i sent him a picture and so right when i was

crawling into bed he texted me back, put the floor mats under the tires for traction. And I just wrote back, I'm like, we're not stuck, but we have bigger problems than that. And I actually told Cal what had happened. And he said to me, I remember your exact text, I think it was, honesty is the best policy.

And you need to call and turn yourself in and self-report man like I just felt like a freaking fugitive you know like I I just couldn't even believe that I was reading those words and so to go to sleep like on those words like knowing like oh we're gonna have to like and like on those words, like knowing like, oh, we're going to have to like. And not, and not having a, like, cause at that moment, like all you want is that like release of getting it off your chest. Yeah. Right. And it's like, it's, you know, 11 o'clock at night. There's literally nothing we can do right now. And it was just awful.

It was awful and so we went into the next morning with kind of two things hanging over our head one that we now know all the footage we've shot so far can't be used and even if it could be used it would be wrong of us to use it and because we're hunting somewhere we couldn't be and i should i should add a clarification on that the spot that we were hunting is just not open to hunting it's not a refuge or anything like that um we didn't know what the ramifications were at the time right like we have no clue's going to happen ultimately when we do get a hold of the Rangers and talk to them about it. Like if you're going to get coughed and stuffed.

That's what I was thinking. Yeah. So we have that hanging over our head, but we also have this, you know, production matter hanging over our head. And so, and I do regret this as a as a producer for sure is you know the in the morning like my game plan is okay well let's just start from scratch let's start like we never hunted the last two days because that footage will never see the light of day anyway and start from ground zero and i wish i hadn't done that. Well, Deshaun just felt so bad because we had these, you know, these days of shooting and

producing and you're spending someone's production budget. Like that's a lot of pressure when you're the producer of something and it's all on your shoulders. And then to find out we had absolutely nothing usable. And not only were we just wasting time not getting a show done, but we're doing things that were illegal. Like that's a lot to hold on your shoulders. And so he instantly went into solution mode of like, how do we save this episode? Kimmy, you're going to have to pretend like this is your first bird all over again. And none of that felt right to any of us. And so now we're filming and I'm like, oh.

And we all have a shitty attitude. We had to do a whole intro again we're not actors or actresses like it just sucked big time and again it still wasn't even the offices weren't open so we hadn't even turned ourselves in yet so you just feel like a big

and I'm on the phone with Steve just like trying to find a way to extend you know extend our shoot so we can at least have something to come from that we're there and still waiting to hear back from a game warden or a ranger. And I was just so excited to eat my ducks. And now I'm like, they're not even mine. And that was probably one of the most heartbreaking things was just like, you know,

Kimmy was almost on the tears about that she's going to have to give up her ducks. This is like my dream, you know? And now I just had this like whole variety, a pack of birds that like, when you get your prey, there's some sort of emotional connection that happens. Just like this attachment, like where it becomes a part of you. And like, all of a sudden it's just like, those aren't even mine. Right, it's a waste. Like, do I even, will I even get to eat them? What's going to happen to them?

Are they going to go to waste? Like, that was one thing that just kept going through my head. Like, not only did you kill them in a place you weren't supposed to, but now what's going to happen to these birds? And so we're sitting on the east side where we know we can hunt, where all these guys have been shooting the heck out of birds and now all of a sudden the realization hits us like the reason they were shooting the heck out of birds it's because we were pushing all the birds out of the spot oh right and so now we're sitting there waiting for a call back from the from the range and now we're sitting there waiting for a call back from the ranger and and it's crickets.

We don't have a duck anywhere near us. We didn't see one single duck all day. You really got to just sit in that blind alone with your feelings. It was miserable. They're called forts, Kimmy. Yeah, exactly. And we finally do get a call. It was a sad fort that day.

We finally do get a call from the ranger. And when I, I mean, we're talking an anvil off my shoulders. Because he's like, man, that happens all the time out here. We actually even changed some of the layout of where it can be hunted this year because of the drought. Like, no, you can't hunt there. I'm glad you called and told us that you hunted there. Like, thank you for reporting. But nobody else called you in.

Which, you know, looking back on it. Yeah, you don't wonder why. They're all like happy we were open. They're like, go do it again. It's going to be their ass, but looking back on it. Yeah, you don't wonder why. They're all like, happy we were over there. They're like, I'll do it again. He's like, it's going to be their ass, but I'll take it. And, you know, it's just one of those moments of. Did he right then and there say, you called, that's it?

First, you had to call a dispatch. And he just wanted to talk to a ranger. But in order to even talk to a ranger, you had to tell dispatch everything that we did. And they're like, oh, okay. And they have to call you. They won't give you the number for the ranger. And then they call the ranger, and then the ranger called back. And he's like, when we do ticket for it, it's an $86 like state park violation. Hmm.

Which is like, oh, thank goodness. With no ticket? No ticket. What do you tell you to do with your ducks? Just keep them.

Just keep them. Yeah. You know, it really was a state. Thank Sean for his honesty. Yeah. And it's a, it's a rule of that place,

but it's not like it's a, you know, it's not like you're on a federal refuge or something like that. And, uh, so at that moment, kind it's not like it's a, you know, it's not like you're on a federal refuge or something like that. And, so at that moment, kind of,

we have like, at least the comfort of knowing like, that's kind of in the wind, but we've had this awful hunt this morning. And we're like, okay,

we got to get the hell out of here. Like, we got to get somewhere else that isn't a cloud hanging over us. And so we left. left like kimmy said man truth or consequences yeah there you go yeah dude truth and consequences yeah wow but and so we we had told our truth and we thought we had you know that was our consequence but little do we know the suffering was yet to come and the desert itself was going to give us our real consequences.

Yeah. Like that was only, our drama was just getting started. I feel like I'm reading a Larry McMurtry, which I don't remember where this lands in the lonesome dove series, but yeah, man. So I know that dude.

Yeah. I know that sink and feeling, um, the, it's the worst. It was like, you know what know that sinking feeling. It's the worst. You know what it is, man? There's like a moral component. Exactly.

If you drive, let's say you're in a 70-mile-an-hour zone and you go by an 85 and a police car pulls out with the lights on, you are like, damn it. but it's not like a morally sickening feeling right it's like you just wish you weren't going fast right but it's not like a judgment has been made on your soul you know yeah you're like ashamed of yourself oh my god yeah when cal just wrote that to me like honesty is the best policy and turn yourself in. And I just felt like a little kid, like being sent to the principal's office, like not wanting to go. I was just like, I wish you didn't tell me that, you know, like, I wish you just said, oh, that's okay, Kimmy or something. I don't know. You're from out of town. Yeah, exactly. But I will say that when Sean made that call, like before we even knew what the consequences would or would not be because we had to wait for a call back. But when he made that call, regardless of whether we're all going to go be behind bars, we all felt a hundred times better just from making it.

And that was neat to me because I was dreading that moment. I was absolutely like, now we're going to say it out loud. And this sickening feeling of shame that I'm feeling is going to be all the more real. It was the opposite. When you made that call, I just felt every part of us lightened just to know that, okay, no matter what, we're not holding this thing in. We're not holding it in the dark, which is like the intuitive thing, I think, to, you to you know as a human to feel when you screw up is to feel like hiding and um and honesty is the best policy and the minute that you made that call even though I didn't know what's going to happen we all felt a lot better yeah and we

you know in the moment we thought like after having talked to him, we kind of thought the consequences at least legally like weren't there. We still saw it as like consequences from a production standpoint of how the hell are we going to get an episode? Like, but now it's like, it feels like the consequences aren't so dire now after talking to him. And then it's like, hold on. The desert does have some consequences for you. Like you guys aren't getting away that easy. Chester, I'd throw that damn story in that Bratzler. You want to talk about a tender story?

No, it was a tough story. I can't tell if it was tough or tender. It's both. And so the next morning. Take a core out a tough story. I can't tell if it was tough or tender. It's both. Take a core out of that story. Next morning, we kill some ducks at a new place. Yeah. So the next morning, we go to a new place, and it wasn't as slow. You're a seasoned duck hunter.

Yep. By this point, she's calling them blinds. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's before them blinds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They'll always be forced to me. But we go to this other spot and there was some action, which was way better than not seeing a single duck the day before. But I will say, I could not shoot to save my life. And I think it's because I had so much hesitation now over pulling that trigger because I had gotten into my groove like in a couple of days before. And I had had this like amazing experience and whatever.

And then that whole thing just got like, no, actually, you didn't. You were just messing up and you really screwed up and you did something bad. And so it's crazy the next day trying to pull trigger. Like I was hesitating like crazy and I was screwing up everything. And Sean wasn't shooting good either. Like we both were just sucking. I got one bird. If this hadn't been, if you guys weren't filming this,

this feels like this would have been the time when you just go, look, we just got to call it. Like this is man. Like we like it's best that we just shut this thing down and walk away and i've said it a ton of times since then um just talking about this hunt and talking about kimmy is that hunt and this whole experience put me through the ringer and i've been through some tough waterfowl hunts and some stuff where it's like, this makes you not want to do it quite so bad. And then to put a camera crew through it and to put a brand new duck hunter through it.

And Kimmy kept sticking it out. And, you know, that morning we had shot some ducks. And then that afternoon we go scout and we're still kind of playing with like how many days left do we even have to produce something here and we're like okay the next day so what would now be our second day at this new spot we're like we have to hunt all day because we gotta like we gotta get something going on here. And that's like after how many days we've been there at this point? We've been there for six days at that point. My toes are really, really sore.

That's a hard proposition. It's hard on everybody when you're like, okay, 3 a.m. wake up call tomorrow, and we're hunting till dark. But that's what we did, and we didn't shoot a damn duck no we didn't see a single duck though and we're in the same lake different side we're on the west side now instead of the east on this new body of water and uh yeah so you can hunt the west side of this new body of water

and we're on the west side hunting and we don't see a thing. Don't have even a prayer. And we sit all day and some like fishermen come screw us up a little bit. And like some guys are setting fish in a hundred yards from our decoy set. And we're just like, I can't catch them. They're like, I don't know what they're doing here. There's no doubt. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Catch a break. And at this point, we do know that we only have one day left of hunting. We've got one morning left. So that was a really junk day because we only had one morning left, and we just spent a whole day and all of our energy for nothing. Yeah, you're just gassed. Zero. Yeah.

So we pack up that day after a long, hard day of seeing nothing. And we're on our first trip across, headed back to the boat ramp. And that fuel tank runs out, which is like nothing abnormal. You know, you have two fuel tanks. And go to switch tanks. And the boat won't start. Like for whatever reason. I kept saying, it's flooded.

It has to be flooded. Somebody squeezed the ball too much. You know, like, it has to be. Because it was right when we switched the gas tank. It would just have to be a fuel thing. And there must have been something. Some vapor lock. Like, there was a slow drain on that battery or whatever the heck it was.

Like, that sucker wouldn't start. The wind switches and pushes us all the way across the lake to the opposite end from where the boat ramp is. It's dark. It's black out. It's now black. We realize it's not a fuel problem. It's a dead battery.

We don't have a spare battery. We're adrift on a cold lake and it's dark. We're nine miles from a boat ramp yeah and no pull start on that thing no no yeah and uh so we land on the shore and and we get a hold get a hold of the park ranger because we now know to call county dispatch and you're like hey hey it's us again your favorite people they get a park ranger dispatch to come get us and he calls me and he's like hey i'm gonna go grab my boat quick i'll be right there you know give me a half hour and he comes running across the lake, and for whatever reason, he must have been looking at a compass, or who knows?

I don't know what he was looking at. We don't know anything. We just saw a red light zooming across from the boat ramp going the wrong way, and then it looked like it was on land, so we're like, maybe that was a car. And he calls me after, I don't know, 15 minutes. And he's like, hey, I ran aground and I'm stuck, stuck.

Oh, my God. And I'm like, well, if four of us walk over there and push the boat, can we get it unstuck? He's like, no. It's on the shore. He's like, we're not even going to worry about my boat tonight. But now I need to be rescued. And then you to be rescued. So then he calls another park ranger from, turns out, the place where we had already talked to the park rangers. By the time we get back to our new Airbnb, it's about, I think it's at least 1.30 in the morning.

And we have to wake up in an hour and a half in order to get back out there again. And this is after a day of just being like beat down. And I just remember telling myself like, okay, I'm going to set my alarm. But if that alarm buzzes and my body says, hell no, I'm going to listen and I'm going to call it because it feels like everything in its power is trying to just like not make me a duck hunter.

And I'm not going to, like, do something stupid with a gun tomorrow because I'm too tired. And, you know, I was just thinking all these things. And instead I woke up, like, half an hour early, came out to the living room. Sean's there all dressed up waiting. The boys jump in. And it's like we all just, like, went out for this next day. And I remember that whole drive we kept saying, like, I know we're going to hit a wall. Like we're so tired, but we don't feel it. We're just jacked up off of absolute catastrophe at this point. You know, you get like a high in energy

from it. And we're just like, we're going to hit a wall sometime, but it's not now. Let's just keep going. And we got to the spot that day. And for the first time in our whole, whatever it was, nine days there, the weather forecast was right. The wind was in the right direction. Like everything just started feeling good. The decoys look great. And before the sun was even up, there were ducks landing in them and everything like the momentum just started getting better and better. And we never hit a wall we just like we started doing things with this flow and this sense of purpose because we had been through the ringer we survived it together not one single person complained this was our last day and we just knew like it is go time

it was and it was do it now or don't do it all there was something really surreal about showing back up to that lake when we had just been there a few hours before you know a drift with the moon up and but it was neat it was like felt like we finally earned our place there is what it felt like to me it's like okay i know this place i was just curled up trying to sleep in these blind covers here, you know, and let's do this. And the birds came in and it was a great day. And they came. Yeah.

They didn't stop coming. The widgeon were just there. And, I mean, we'd been seeing them there, right? We knew they were there, but just getting on them was the trick. And we, you know, kind of got into one of those spot-on-a-spot moments of where this is where you got to be. On the X. And we were on it.

And we went from thinking we would never get an episode out of this and that I'd lost any capability as a producer to like we put like we put our nose down and got it done and Kimmy shot great I shot great like Widgeon perfectly fluttering in the sun over the decoys after we shot our limits they just still were coming. It was a good day all over again, but one that it really felt like we came to terms with it. We earned it. Unlike the island feeling too good to be true, now it was like, boy, we worked for this one.

We got some introspection some misery got humbled exactly and we got a duck hunting story that i don't want to experience again but i will never forget i mean you couldn't yeah you got everybody's like bad thing of the season in one night. Yeah. Yeah, this is like more than a duck hunting story, man. This is like a fable that we're going to have to tell so that people learn life lessons. You need to go down to the town council. Be like, listen, I think we should keep truth or consequence.

Right. We just need to change why. Yeah. We got to update the why. You guys got any free plaques we can carve something on? Exactly. Well, I'm glad he came out of it. Yeah, good lord.

No, it was the best experience ever. No cuff marks, but... When did the adrenaline wear off and you guys definitely all hit a wall? Because you know that happened. You know what? For me, it didn't. Really? I finally got my duck hunting dream back after struggling and suffering.

And there's something about suffering that will make you appreciate that dream so much more. And we were done duck hunting. And then Sean and I were just like, let's drive to Hatch and go get some green chilies. We were on a high. All right. Yeah. You know, Sean, I spent a night in jail. Did you?

Mm-hmm. Do tell. I haven't gone there yet. I spent a night in jail. Did you? Mm-hmm. Do tell. I haven't gone there yet. I'll tell you a part of it. I'll tell you the whole story Sunday. I'll tell you a part of it. We had bought a bottle of Mad Dog 2020. All great stories.

My buddy Fit, I don't remember this, my buddy Fit says that I was drinking that Mad Dog 2020 and said, I'll be out of control in about 45 minutes. He said, that's about when he said, that's about 45 minutes later. You drove off in a police car. We're youngsters. All right, everybody. Ended on a cautionary tale.

Know where you're hunting. Sean, you got a duck report coming up about influenza. Yep. Tease it. Titillate it. We are seeing an unprecedented outbreak in avian influenza that's never been seen in North America. Nothing even close. And it's actually poured over from poultry back into wild birds.

And it's something to be worried about. Stay tuned for that shit, ladies and gentlemen. We got to get them on soon to tell that, Corinne. Make a note in your notebook about that. All right, guys. Sean Weaver, Kevin Gillespie, Kimmy Werner. We're going to kick your asses in trivia. Thanks, everyone. Hey, folks. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians.

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