The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 384: Gear Talk - Episode 2

Episode Date: November 3, 2022

This week on Gear Talk, Janis and Jordan discuss their side by sides; Mark Boardman with Vortex Optics joins the discussion to explain adjusting your binocular diopter correctly; Jordan on pitching and using tarps; Janis and the Kifaru Gnargali backpack. If you have a question you want to submit to Gear Talk for discussion, email [e-mail].  Click here to subscribe to Gear Talk on iHeart Radio Click here to subscribe to Gear Talk on Apple Podcasts Click here to subscribe to Gear Talk on Spotify Want to comment on this episode? Visit https://www.themeateater.com/listen/gear-talk and join the conversation. Connect with Janis, Jordan, and MeatEater MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop MeatEater MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are

without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to Gear Talk. Gear Talk is a podcast where Jordan, Bud, and I, Giannis Patelis, are going to, you guessed it, talk about gear. Anything and everything about gear. Yeah. What we like about it, what we don't like about it, what's new, what's old,

how we use it, learn stuff that we don't know about gear and how it's made, you name it. We're going to have segments where gear experts call in and help us learn things about gear and understand

gear. And when I say gear, too, I want to clarify that. It's going to be everything from clothing, hats to boots, you know, hunting gear from guns to archery equipment, tents that you might use, you know, backpacking or sleeping in, you know, knives that you're using to cut up your animals. We might even get into fishing gear sometimes if we get wild hair up our asses. It's endless. Yeah. I think we should talk about trucks sometimes too. I think so too, side by sides.

Ooh, I like it. Does that mean- I'm going, yeah, I'm going after this. I'm literally going to sign the paperwork on my can-am. Sick. Which one'd you go with? Yeah. I got a Defender HD9, an XT, and then put doors and windshield and the heater in it. So it'll be pretty sweet. Dude, I didn't do heater in mine because I went with the single bench with the six foot bed. And it just doesn't come standard with it.

And I didn't think to add it on. And that was my one mistake. And mine is actually at the shop right now getting a heater put in because you don't realize that when you're working in it in cold temps, that if you don't have heat in there, there's two things you can do. One, you can keep the windows all rolled up and basically frost yourself inside of there and you can't see anything. Or you have to keep the windows down and be like running goggles and whatever so that you can keep the same temp in and out so that you don't you know frost over your windshield and uh anyways yeah good move on uh getting the heater but is that is that version you got is that with two benches no it's just with the single yeah so i can uh i've got a trailer that i use now for

like hunting and camping in but part of the reason i did it is so i could put the side by side in it and uh two benches won't fit. So just a single bench and it's just nicer to get in and out of tight spots, I think. Yes, definitely. There's a lot to be said for that. I'm so impressed by those things, man. Like they, when there is a spot where, where it really does behoove you to be in a side-by-side, it like, it makes, they excel so hard and make the hunt so much easier. And it's mostly just comes down to like, there's, there's X amount of hours in a day and you want to use them as efficiently as possible. And when you're ripping around traveling,

doesn't matter what vehicle you're in or on, you're not hunting. And if it takes me an hour to get to the spot in my truck or 20 minutes in the can-am, then by golly, I'm getting more sleep. I'm getting more hunting and less windshield time, which is absolutely great. But again, it's like sometimes you can get there faster in a truck, right? Because maybe you're on the highway for 20 miles. But in places where you're going to have to rip like a bumpy, rocky, dirt road, it's not in good condition where if you're in your truck, you're just like, oh my gosh,

I can't believe I'm doing this to my truck. That is where those can-ams just excel. And you can just jam down them and get her done. her done. And, uh, I mean, there's obviously all the other benefits too. Like you talked about getting in and out of tight spots. Um, what are you mostly going to use it for? Uh, hunting for sure. So I think especially late season, there's a lot of these hunts we're doing that's like roadside camp hunts and a lot of the access could be on just side-by-side trails and uh man i've seen people that are just on four-wheelers or even other side-by-sides that like don't have doors and stuff that uh after a couple days of grinding it out in the super cold

weather you don't really want to go out and hunt anymore so that's that was some of my reasoning for i went the extra mile and threw a cab on and uh because i know that it's going to add the extra level of comfort and so i'm going to want to go in it and that's just going to let you be in the field longer you know 100 we used to when i guided a little bit down in Mexico for Jay Scott and uh in those days the side by side that he had and the one that Dar had both did not have windshields or doors or whatever you know they might have had like a roof but you would bring down a whole even though like you're hunting in Mexico in January which it can get a kind of cold you know, maybe into the thirties, but you would bring a whole extra set of clothes just for traveling in the side-by-side. And we, I mean, big warm hat, big puffy jacket

over, you know, insulated, you know, overall bibs, uh, goggles, you know, face masks, giant mittens or gloves to keep yourself warm because yeah, you know, you're going for like a 20 to 60 minute rip sometimes in that open air at, you know, 35 degrees and man, it can just chill you to the bone. Yeah. Before you even get to where you're supposed to start hunting. Yeah, exactly. And then you're like, Oh, this is a nice way to start, just freezing cold. Yeah, exactly. All right. We've diverged, but there you go. That is a little snippet of what you can expect. Jordan and I talking gear, all kinds of gear and everything about it. Like I said, top to bottom, how it's made, how to make it better. And speaking of making it better, one of the things that we're

going to do, it's not exactly clear how we're going to do it. It's going to be a work in progress, but we're going to bring you along on the ride. And I guess you could call it, some people might not consider a ride, but you're going to get to hear how First Light product is made and what's being made. Like what's being made that you haven't even, you don't even know that it even exists in first light, uh, in the, in the creator's room, you know, where the, where the designs first come up, the stuff that we've been talking about, because it takes years from when a product comes, like if someone thinks about a new jacket until that new jacket can actually be sold to somebody literally years, two to three years on most products. So we're going to bring

you along in that process for a couple of reasons. One being that Jordan and I already do it. We participate in this process with First Light and it makes us, you know, it's just gets us involved and our input helps, you know, make's just gets us involved and our input helps, you know, make this gear hopefully better and be the gear that we want to use when it's done. So we're already talking about it. We figured we should be talking about it with you. We also want to let you guys bring your knowledge and expertise and ideas to us to help that gear better. So we're going to have, it's not going to quite be a forum. At the minimum, we're going to start off with basically an email address that you can write

into us if you have questions about First Light gear or ideas for First Light to use for gear, whatever it might be, man. We want it all, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and we're going to address it. We're going to take it to first light and have the experts there, uh, address it, whatever it might be. And then lastly, we're going to do all this as sort of a way to hopefully make everybody okay with the fact that we're not going to be probably discussing too much and reviewing or whatever dissecting gear that is made by competitors like Kuyu, Sitka, Cabela's, whatever else it might be out there, right? It's no surprise that the company that Jordan and I work for, MeatEater, owns First Light. They own FHF.

They own Phelps Game Calls. So in the name of just trying to make it fun for everybody, because I don't want to just do a podcast where we're basically doing a commercial for First Light all the time. I want to make it where you're learning something about, you know, how gear is made. It's just going to be from probably a person that is making First Light gear. You're going to learn about the process of a jacket that's, you know, coming down the pike from First Light. But again, you're going to learn about the process and you're going to be able to be involved. You're going to hear what's happening. It's a big step for First Light to kind of do this because it opens you up to those vulnerabilities associated there, right?

Competitors can see what you're doing and can copy you. They can try to beat you to the release of a certain product that you're doing. They can maybe just take an idea or like a certain one detail of an idea and, you know, use that in their, you know, version of said thing. Um, anyways, I think it's going to be fun. I think like, I'm going to learn a lot. You're going to learn a lot, Jordan, and hopefully the listeners are going to learn a lot and, um, it'll be interesting, you know, and, uh, hopefully you all feel like invested in it, you know, and like I said, it's a long process. So don't think just because you're right in tomorrow and you say, man,

really, I'd like to see a hood that you can see out of the back and the front. Don't think that like next year, you're going to see a jacket that, you know, that has holes out, you know, peeping holes out the back of the hood. It's a long process, but we're going to kind of keep you updated, you know, with what's coming, what we're working on, what we've been testing, what we like, this, that, and the other. Jordan, you want to add anything to that? Yeah. I mean, it's going to be, it's going to be so much fun. I geek out on this stuff. I love hearing about it. I think what I'm most looking forward to is the micro view of a lot of things. We just had Matt DeRoges on talking about seam tape, little things like that, how jackets are put together, how any, like think of any gear thing, if we can dive into it and talk

about like the parts of that and how they all work together. That's not, I mean, every company does a little bit different, but that's not like very company specific. That's just how like we can provide a value to the listeners, just giving them the knowledge to know what they're looking at when they go into a store or when they're looking at something or hearing about a piece of gear and they can better make a decision based on the knowledge that we can provide for them. Yeah. Yeah. We want to help you make good decisions about the gear you buy. Obviously we hope you buy some first light, but if you choose to go with another company's gear, uh, that's okay too. But hopefully you feel that like, because what you learned from Jordan or what you learned from Matt DeRogers

about seam tape, next time you go into the store, you're going to flip a jacket inside out and go, oh yeah, that's what they were talking about. And look, they, you know, did or do not do that thing that Matt was talking about and just make you a more educated consumer, which is cool. Yeah. Okay. So that's what we're doing with First Light in this podcast. And you'll kind of hear the same thing with, you know, we'll treat FHF and Phelps game calls the same way as much as we can. Sometimes with, it seems like with game calls, there's a lot of patents that I'm always hearing about.

And so sometimes we just will have to stay mum about a certain subject because Jason's waiting on a patent to be fulfilled. But you'll be the first to know here for a lot of cool stuff. Yeah. It's so exciting. Yeah. Anything else you want to say just in general about our Fancy New Gear podcast? Man, I don't think so. I think the options are endless as far as what we can talk about. Everything and anything that's involved in going on a hunt or being on a hunt, we can talk about. So I'm excited for it.

All right, now for our gear expert segment where Jordan and I have folks call in that are in the industry that know a lot more about certain pieces of gear or groups of gear than we do and have them explain something to us so we can learn something, maybe how our gear works better, how to take care of it better, whatever it might be. Today, we have Mark Boardman from Vortex Optics here to talk diopters. Mark, tell me what you're doing over at Vortex these days, how you're doing, and then we'll jump into diopters. So yeah, man, no, I appreciate it. Appreciate you having me on.

So yeah, man, Mark Boardman, Vortex Optics. Been in the marketing department in various capacities for going on 14 years now. So we've known each other for a long time, Giannis and the Meteor crew. So it's super cool. Yeah, I focus primarily on our podcast now. So that's what I spend a lot of my time. So you're a podcast host now. That's why we got all the fancy equipment.

Nice. I didn't know that. So you're a long time listener then. I take it. Listen, you can't get mad at me for not listening because I don't listen to any podcast that I personally produce. I don't know if you listen. That's a question for you. Do you listen to the podcast you produce? For editing purposes and things like that, yes. I once asked that to Joe Rogan. He said no.

Yeah. Generally, I remember pretty good, but like you know sometimes i'll go back and listen like if we haven't written like the copy for the description like i'll kind of go back and scan through but yeah i don't i don't like i'm not fully like you know i'm not that into myself i'm like i better go listen to myself some more today yeah i just i seriously i just don't have i don't like to listen to stuff when I run, which would be a great time to listen to podcasts and musics, but, uh, I like to listen to the wind and the birds. So, uh, you know, but listen, I'm telling you, I'm driving to Michigan here in a couple of weeks. I'm going to listen to the Vortex podcast. Man. I appreciate that. That's the time to crush a

podcast, man. My commute is about an hour both ways. So I crush a fair amount of podcasts. So yeah, I can clean up pretty good. All right. Let's jump to diopters. Oh, the topic we're supposed to be talking about? Yeah, the topic. Yep. Yep. Everybody knows, should know that there's a diopter dial or two, which I think Mark's going to explain hopefully for us, on your binoculars. And you're supposed to dial them and set them to make the binoculars work better for your eyes. That's pretty much my sort of take and understanding on it. And, but I'm always unsure when I set it, if I'm doing it properly. Jordan,

what about you? Are you kind of in the same boat or do you feel like when you dial your diopter, you're dialed? I feel like I'm pretty dialed. Uh, sometimes I feel like I have to adjust it like from hunt to hunt. I feel like I'll readjust it or even from day to day, um, or readjust it. But yeah, it's just like an individual focus for each eye that, uh, I think a lot of people actually overlook, don't even know about it. Yeah. I mean, I think, I mean, you guys, you know, you stole my thunder. No. But yeah, I mean, you nailed it. I mean, essentially what a diopter is doing, it's adjusting for variance in your eyes. You have two eyes, they're going to be a little bit different, right? So it's adjusting and making sure the binocular is focused to accommodate, you know, essentially the vision in both of your eyes. In general, I'd say most commonly, you're going to see a right eye diopter. So it's going to be a ring that's located on the right eye piece of your binocular. With that ring, you're going to see a scale, right? So you're

going to see like a kind of like a zero reference mark, and then a plus or a minus, and then kind of some adjustment graduations to kind of be able to take note of where you've adjusted that. Oftentimes, it'll be a locking diopter, so that ring will pop up to unlock it and make those adjustments. Once you've made that adjustment, pop it back down, lock it in. You definitely want to unlock it though, before you make that adjustment, because you could damage the binocular. So we get that, you know, some people at times, people be like, the damn diopter's stuck. It's like, no, just need to unlock it, but we'll fix that for you. But yeah, so like I said, and then outside of, you know, adjusting it to accommodate for the discrepancy or variance between your two eyes, you can also use it to make sure, I guess it's kind of doing two things at once. When it's set properly, it's going to make sure that things are coming in and out of focus at exactly the same time when you're using just the center focus wheel.

And there's kind of a check that you can do after you've set your diopter to confirm that everything is working properly, if that makes sense. Then we can kind of go into how to set your diopter because that's, you know, its own process. Yeah. That does make sense. How come most binoculars are only one eye for the diopter? Oh man, now you're asking the tough questions, Giannis. I never asked why. I just learned how to use the darn thing. Because some do have them for both eyes, right? I was going to say, yeah. In some instances, I'd say you'd see it largely, or I'd say more commonly, at least in my experience on like a poroprism style binocular, where you have individual eye focus. I think that can be an asset for people that maybe have a high degree of variance, you know, between the vision and both

of their eyes. But yeah, most commonly, you're going to see just the single right eye diopter. And really every binocular in our lineup is going to have that. I'd say an exception to that would be our Fury HD range-finding binocular, which has the reticle focus on the right eyepiece and then the diopter is on the left eyepiece. But that's the one exception in our lineup. If you step outside the Vortex lineup of binoculars, sometimes you'll see a center diopter that's actually kind of like integrated into the focus wheel. But the process for setting it will be the same as, you know,

just a standard right eye diopter. Okay. So let's talk about setting it and tell me real quick, if you don't set it, like what are you losing? What's going wrong with when you're using your binoculars? I mean, you know, if you don't have it set properly, you know, depending on your personal vision, like, you know, you might just have just a less desirable optical experience overall, like just stuff like isn't going to be in focus for like, you know, both of your eyes. It's easy to set. It's, it's definitely, I'd say most, you know, all of our binoculars, you know, have, have a diopter. Um, and it's, it's, it is something you're going to want to pay attention to. Um, for me,

I'm pretty lucky personally. Um, you know, I can essentially just set it on the zero mark and, you know, my, the vision of both my eyes is like pretty similar so i'd be good to go but i still set it though because you're going to find that you're going to want to shade generally you know either a little bit to the the right or left of that zero mark and setting it is just so easy it's just something that that you want to do and if you haven't been paying attention to it you might find that your you know your overall viewing experience is enhanced once you do big time all right tell us how to set it so to set your diopter you know and this is like i said we got you know i've got one in front of me right now it's a it's a

binocular razor uhd 10 by 42 one of my favorites it's got a locking right eye diopter like we talked about before but you're going to want to uh close your right eye so you're going to close your right eye or cover uh cover the uh or cover the ocular there. I always just close my right eye. Some people kind of have a problem with that. It makes them squint a little bit. So you can just cover it in some capacity. So you're going to cover the right ocular or close your right eye. And then you're going to focus on an object. I'd say an object with, you know, maybe a high level of detail, you know, 25, 35 yards away with your left eye, and you'll roll the center focus wheel until that object is in sharp focus. And then once you do that, unlock the diopter if it's a locking diopter,

close your left eye, and then use the diter to uh adjust the focus until it's as sharp as possible on that same object once you get that lock it back down in and i mean essentially your diopter is set i see so you're basically that's how you're matching the two is you focus the left one and then you're focusing the right one with the diopter and that's how you're matching the two so they're oh you know what i do most of the time is i don't do the left part i just skip right to the right part which is why mine is probably never dialed hey they still call you the latvian eagle so something something's working right. I check mine. After it's done, I check mine, like open both eyes and still leave the diopter unlocked.

And I can feather it in and out a little bit and just, and then, I don't know. You can tell definitely when it clears up and when it doesn't. And then I like check it, make a couple of adjustments and then lock it back down. Or just leave it if it's not locking. Yep, yep. like check it make a couple of adjustments and then lock it back down or just leave it if it's not locking yep yep and then that other check that i was uh talking about earlier that you can do is you know you can pick that same object again i'd pick something you know this is once you've you know done those two things and you've got your diopter set um pick an object with high level of detail you know whatever you know 30 40 yards away or something like that. And then just kind of like consciously look through the binocular at that, at that object, you know, hopefully it has like, uh, maybe almost like two sides to it and then roll your center focus and just make sure

that almost like both sides of that object with high detail are coming in and out of focus at the same rate. And if they're doing those things at the same time, like I said, that's kind of like that, that after check, you're like, cool, I'm good to go. Everything's set. Um, and, and the other nice thing about this is like, it's definitely something that you can check over time, but it's not necessarily critical. Like every time I use my binoculars and, you know, I better go, you know, check my diopter unless your vision is changing, you know, dramatically or, or whatever, what have you. Um, it's not something you really have to do all the time. So, um, do you know why, why is it that you want to do it at like that close range?

Why not do it at something that's 500 yards away? So, you know, my thought there is, you know, as you enter introduce, um, you know, those extended ranges, you're also introducing additional variables. It could be, you know, a high pollen count day. It could be a hotter day where you're dealing with heat waves. And you kind of might get like, in essence, like a false reading or something like that. You know, at those closer distances, you're just going to be able to see that finer detail and make sure that everything, you know,

you're adjusting the focus. You might as well, you know, make sure that everything that you're looking at is, you know, has a high level of detail while you're doing that. I see. So as long if you could hold them super steady and, you know, all conditions were absolutely perfect, you could technically pull it off at 500 yards. Yeah, I imagine so. Yeah. I've never, I've never tried it. It's just easier at 30 because you're just like, it's easier for your eye just to see those small details, right? Yep. That makes sense. Anything else we need to know about diopters or setting them? Man, I mean, I'd like to say there's more to it, but in a lot of ways, I'm glad that there isn't. I mean, cause there just really isn't a whole lot to it. Like we talked about earlier,

definitely something you want to pay attention to. And, uh, once, once you adjust it, you know, you should, you ought to be good to go and, uh, enjoy your optics to their fullest potential. Oh, there's no doubt in my mind that the average hunter will glass up more game if their diopter is set properly than not. So thanks for the reminder because I needed that because I got to remember to do the left eye first instead of just jumping right over to the diopter dial. You're going to be, yeah, you're just cutting to the chase, man. You're going to be on like a glassing tear here pretty soon. You're like, oh my gosh, dude, this diopter's changed my life. Yeah. I like to always joke about how there's like lasers coming out of my binos and they're just burning up the hillsides when I'm glass. And so I don't know what this

is going to change for me, but hopefully I won't start any forest fires. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Mark, thanks for taking the time, man. We appreciate it. And we'll be calling you up soon for another Gear Expert segment. So feel free to tell me what you would like that Gear Expert segment to be because I'm sure we're going to need ideas. And I'm being serious. No, that's awesome, man. Thank you. No, appreciate the time. Appreciate you having me on, guys. Always great chatting. And, yeah, we'll stay in touch for sure. Hey, folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada.

And, boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes and our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join our northern brothers get irritated well if you're sick of you know sucking high and titty there OnX is now in Canada

the great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. That's right. We're always talking about OnX here on the Meat Eater podcast. Now, you guys in the Great White North can, can be part of it. Be part of the excitement.

You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services, handpicked by the on X hunt team. Some of our favorites are first light Schneee's, Vortex Federal, and more. As a special offer,

you can get a free three months to try OnX out if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX Club, y'all. All right. Last but not least, this segment doesn't have a name, but it's basically

a segment where Jordan and I are going to each recap a recent hunt that we went on and sort of pick out a piece of gear that probably like during the hunt, uh, something happened with it. It, for some reason it was highlighted for some reason it was in our heads. It might be that we tried something new. It might be that something like

really excelled just whatever. A couple of reasons for that is like, I want, I want it to be known that the two of us are always out there hunting a lot. Jordan hunts more than I do. She ain't got no kids. You got a dog, though. It probably slows you down a little bit. Although I see pictures of your dog going on all your adventures. So that's not slowing you down.

Yeah, you see us hunting and you see us trying, using new gear, old gear, either way, out there just getting after it. And I think people like to hear hunting stories, and I like to tell hunting stories. So it's a good opportunity for both of those things, and it's a good opportunity to really talk about recent gear in action. Yeah. What do you got?

What's the most recent hunt you went on? No, I can't ask that question. Cause obviously you haven't, you did something before you went, since you went sheep hunting. Yeah. Yeah, I have. So I would say, uh, take it back to, uh, a rifle elk hunt that we did. Um, it was cold and super windy. There was like a storm system coming in. We decided to go up and sit on a ridge

and just glass this whole valley for elk. Where was this? That was in Wyoming. Yep, that was in Wyoming. So it was like October. I'm trying to think of the date. It was like October 15th, probably right when that general opener was going to start. Um, and, uh, so we go up,

sit on this Ridge and we're glassing and storm system starts coming in, starts snowing just a little bit, starts really picking up on the wind. And, uh, I pulled my tarp out and set the tarp up like a lean to, um, behind us, which the wind was coming from behind us. So just use it as a wind blocker. Plus use it as like, um, uh, just so like moisture didn't get on us, you know, like a big, like rain shade basically. Um, and I, we sat there for probably three hours, maybe a little more than that. And just kind of watching weather going in and out. We were seeing elk moving around. People were pushing them around. I was trying to find a good bull. And, uh, when it was started to, it started to really sock in

and we're like, ah, all right, we're going to drop down out of here. When I got out from behind that tarp, I was like, holy cow, it is cold. And that thing, it had to let us stay up there for, I mean, at least an extra couple of hours, um, just carrying, you know, that little nine ounce tarp to block the wind. So that's, that's my big one. And that one was, uh, that was that Kefara sheep tarp as well. I've had it for a long time. And, uh, it's my big one. And that one was, uh, that was that Kefara sheep tarp as well. I've had it for a long time. And, uh, it's one of the reasons I carry it on a ton of hunts, like block the wind, provide you shade, get the rain off you, use it for a lot of things, very versatile. So that was, uh, that's always been a noteworthy one in my mind. Nice. Yeah. I've had experiences like that too, where you're you're like man if we didn't have this tarp it

would really suck right now yeah um yeah what uh what pitch did you use like do you have a way to classify the pitch that you used for that when you set up that tarp i mean i would almost say like a lean to what i did is i staked like the back two corners down um and actually the middle two right to the ground right to the ground yeah get some good like try to seal it right to the ground and then i used um trekking poles and pitched it to the corners and actually pitched them uh put the trekking poles like not right on the corners but one loop in from the corners. So then when you put the corners that have guy lines on them down to the ground and you guy line it out like that gives you like a little bit of side protection too. And seems like it kept like the water rolling off the sides instead of

like ever getting down into the front of us. That's really tough to explain via audio, but yeah, basically like pitch it like a lean-to. The back stayed right to the ground, used trekking poles to prop the front up, guy lines in each corner going to the ground and worked pretty good. So was it like the upper front edge that was curved over a little bit or the two sides?

The two sides that were curved over a little bit or the two sides um two sides that were curved over got it yeah so the check and pulls like weren't in an eyelet or anything they were just kind of in from the yeah i mean that specific yeah that specific tarp has eyelets uh all the way around it there's probably on each edge there's probably six eyelets built in so you can really pitch it however you want. You can put guy lines wherever you want on them.

That loop eyelet lets you put it over the top of the end of a trekking pole. Right. How did you get that extra fabric to be able to make the edge come down if the eyelet's right on the edge and your is just on the edge yeah just on the corners of the front so like imagine where those tracking poles would be and so it was

just like you know got it so your tracking pole wasn't on the corner. Right. It was in from the corner, making that curve just a little bit on the ends. Got it. It seemed to keep it a little bit more stable too. Not really sure why that would be, but it seemed like it was more stable. I started them on the corners and moved them in. I like it, man. I'm into pitching tarps and the technique of it and like all the different variations because a well pitch tarp

is like a very, very good, nice, comfy shelter. And then a shitty pitch tarp is, you might as well just stand next to it outside. You'd think it would be easier too to really pitch it well, but it is, there becomes a lot of variables out there yeah all right i recently went uh bear hunting with my buddy pete munich uh we hit we hit uh

western montana it was uh like first week of june and um very very, very wet hunt. That doesn't have anything to do with the gear I'm going to talk about, but it was wet. Um, we saw bears, uh, saw 10 bears in like four days, four or five days, I think. And, uh, just didn't see like a mature boar. Um, not only we saw a bear that weighed over 120 pounds probably. You know, four cubs out of the, four out of the 10 were cubs. And the rest were obviously the sows with the cubs or just, you know, very small looking single bears. But still, great hunt, great wildlife watching. Had a great time.

Didn't put in like mega miles carrying camp but we did switch locations and every time we'd switch we'd go back to the truck drive a few miles on logging roads and then sort of work out other different ridge systems that where we could get good you know advantages over country where we thought we could see, um, where we thought we would see bears, but enough, you know, backpacking, like we slept, never slept at the truck. So every time we left the truck, we had, you know, camp with us and we were, we were sleeping, I don't know, usually somewhere three to highlight is, uh, the Kefaru Nargali pack, which, um, very first time using it, like literally I had not, um, ever had it on my back other than just,

you know, very quickly trying it on, uh, at my house. And, um, I'm very familiar with Seek Out's side packs with XO packs, Stone Glacier packs, had never messed around with a Kefaru pack. One of the things that I've always thought about them and it turned to hold true is like the amount of straps and buckles. Man, they pack them on there. You run some Kifaru stuff. Do you agree with that? Or do you, have you gotten used to it where you're like, ah,

it's not that many. I have a, I have a purpose for all of them. Yeah. Um, I think you can change all of them around. So that's what I like about them is like, you could take those,

those straps off depending on the bag. Some of them are sewn in, but on the frame side, you can take all those straps off depending on the bag some of them are sewn in but on the frame side you can take all the straps off and move them around so um i kind of like i like that part about it um it saved me a couple of times with like some weird weird loads or like trying to get extra gear on when you're packing out meat and like the bag is full of stuff. Um, it saved me there being able to add straps, which I think, uh, is kind of different than some companies, but they do get strappy. I agree. Um, there are a lot of straps on most of those, on most of the bags. The bag itself without the frame comes in just, well, it comes in at two and a half pounds.

I don't know what the frame weighs off the top of my head. It's a total volume is 5,000 cubic inches. But they have a, like, a version where you can basically fold the lid down and drop it by like a thousand, i really like that like i appreciate a pack that i can carry a whole camp into the woods with into the mountains and then drop camp drop food and then and then basically turn that you know backpacking hunting pack into a day hunting pack um i appreciate that when they can get nice and slim and uh so on besides it having a lot of straps, which again, first time using it, I was probably just like, you know, unaware of how to use them all properly. But a couple of things that I really liked is I feel like out of all the packs I've used, they had the best like side pocket that not the one that you can like attach to your hip belt, but the one that's actually like down low on the side of the pack.

It's like half stretchy, half tough material. So, and it's tall. So it's tall enough that you're like, now Jean gets all the way in there where like, it's literally just the cap kind of sticking out of the top. And you'd think, well, isn't it going to be hard to get it out of there but because it's got like this stretchy panel it's not and it's actually what's even better like a lot of packs you can get the nalgene right out easily but the trick is like getting them back in like when when you're if you have a pack where you have to ask your buddy

every time hey can you put this uh Nalgene back in the pocket? Like, come on, pack makers. You got to do better than that, right? Like, it's just kind of annoying. Anyways, that pocket is like really, really dialed. And it's a small thing, but man, someone thought it through and got it right. This pack is my style too,

because it's minimalist and simple. Like it's a top loader only. And if you don't have the lid, which I didn't run the lid, like the attachment lid, it's basically just like a version of like a roll top almost. Like there's just two, you kind of cinch it together, you kind of roll it over

and then there's buckles that come from you know, where your back is over the top and you can really lock it down like that. But you can only access it from the top, which if you're just a smart packer and you don't put stuff in the bottom that you're going to need in an hour, it's like not a big deal. You just got to kind of think it through, right? Some people hate that and they want to be able to get to everything all the time and they like more pockets and they're like, we want to get super organized. I like to keep my stuff simple. I think it's lighter that way.

So even though there's not a zipper that runs down the whole side, you know, to give you access to the whole pack. Again, if you just compact smart, it's not a big deal, which again, I just think it's weight savings, just less stuff to break, whatever. Yeah. I like it. Yeah. I'm trying to think. There's nothing really else that I really didn't like about it. One other thing that was a plus out of all the packs I've been using lately, this one by far, I can't say yet if it was the most comfortable, it's's close but it has definitely the biggest lumbar pad and one of the more cushier waist belts and i believe i went with either a smaller medium because i'm like a 34 and there it just came around my hips and there was going to be plenty of room to cinch down if

i needed it but like my body shape i think it's pretty common body shape is like there's not a lot of curve between my uh hamstring and my lower back if you know what i mean and so packs tend to slide down there's like no shelf to hold them up and that big lumbar pad really seems to kind of like dig in so to speak. Digging sounds wrong because it sounds like it's going to hurt, but it just seems to like grab and like really hold, you know, that whole waist system, you know, up, up on your hips and not let it sag. And even though there's, you know, you have pressure cause you know, that's the weight

of your pack is riding, you know, onto that hip belt. It didn't feel like a lot of pressure. Like there was no digging. It was a very comfortable riding pack, even when it was packed full. And because we weren't going too far, we were definitely running a little bit on the heavier side. Like I bet you I was, you know, with food and water and stuff, we had to pack in water everywhere, which that always adds a lot of weight. So I bet you I was going 50, 55 on the way in and very, very comfortable.

Awesome. And it, like a lot of other packs, packs meat like your XO, like your Stone Glacier, where you're going to pull the pack off and there's a load shelf. You're going to get your meat there and then put it all back together. Is that how, I know that there's two ways to do it. Aaron was actually telling me that he'll actually just sometimes run the meat right in the main bag. What do you do? That's usually what I do is run the meat right in the main bag, unless I just don't have a big bag or I don't have that much stuff in the bag. Like usually if I have like, I mean, if you have camp or a lot of stuff inside your bag and there's just not room for it, then there's just not room for it. Um, but if I don't have that much stuff in the bag and I have

room, uh, I like to run the meat just in side the main just to keep all the weight closer to my back. It seems like if you put meat in a load shelf and then if you have a lot of stuff in your bag, especially if it's heavy and you extend it away from your back, you're just moving all the weight out backwards. It kind of feels like there's a monkey pulling pulling on your back, like trying to pull you over backwards. So that's where I see like benefit in putting weight or putting the meat inside the bag is if you're trying to keep it all close to your back. I think it's more important if you're packing meat a long ways versus a short distance. It'll just ride better. You can carry more and, uh, yeah, feel better afterwards. So it seems to be kind of personal preference,

honestly. All right, everyone that is going to wrap us for this week's episode of gear talk. Big thank you to Mark Boardman for hopping on and walking us through diopters. We know season has kicked off for a lot of you out there, so good luck out in the field. And if you have a question that you would like to ask us here on the podcast, email geartalkatthemeateater.com. Send your question in, we'll try to get an answer for you, and we will see you guys on the next episode.

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