The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 463: A 'Pus In Da Pot

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

Steve Rinella talks with Katie Finch and their son, “Jimbabwe,” Andy “Pooter” Radziallowski, Kelsey Morris, and Seth Morris. Topics include: Tickles, touches, and takes; the owners of the rotten A-frame; Kelsey’s Studio Gallery in Three Folks, MT; the Leviathan and different interpretations; Act 54 passed in Maui, allowing nonprofits to donate wild game meat to “under-resourced” communities; full freegan vegans; all the people getting bitten by sharks this year; a correction on sublimation, the process of ice turning to gas; the Streisand Effect; tapping bullheads; cats for cash programs; how an octopus makes its way into a shrimp pot; “get me the gaff!”; harvesting arms; inverting the mantle; the tale of two octopuses; meals from the cove; cutting scallop coins; and more. Connect with Steve and MeatEater Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop MeatEater Merch  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are

without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. Welcome to the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwearless. The Meat Eater Podcast. You can't predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light.

Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting for elk, First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at firstlight.com. F-I-R-S-T-L-I-T-E dot com. Apparel to support every hunter and every environment. Check it out at firstlight.com. F-I-R-S-T-L-I-T-E dot com. Alright everybody, my wife's here. She wants to call this episode A Puss in Da Pot.

A Puss in Da Pot. Definitely didn't want to call it that. Also joined by Andrew Radulowski, who has been, this is your what year? 15th consecutive year. 15th consecutive year being the camp cook. The camp cook at our fish shack. Yeah. 15 years of cooking.

I'd say camp manager. Camp manager. We're still looking for an Andy over for our place. Yeah. Taking applications. Yeah, we can talk later. Most eligible bachelor on San Juan Island. We're going to poach him.

Been coming for 15 years. I don't come to the fish shack without Andy. Yeah. Doesn't happen anymore. He doesn't like to come without Andy. Andy thinks people like him. They think people like him. He's not only the best guy to just be around and hang out with, he also

makes the experience because of the food. It'd be so different. We're going to run through your repertoire of dishes. Keeps everybody happy. We're going to run through your repertoire of dishes because you have like a you have a um someday we're gonna we should do a book called meals from the cove yeah oh that'd be a good idea meals in the cove very short cookbook yeah just like two weeks worth of dishes yeah oh man yeah It's a great idea. There you go. A puss in the pot. We'll get to what that is. You can't say that anymore.

I have some questions. You can't. Well, I was also thinking about calling the episode. Tickles, touches, takes. No. Neither one of those. Which is tickles, touches, and takes. Anything with tickles or puss.

Which is about fishing. Which is just about fishing. Tickles, touches, and takes. Anything with tickles or puss. Which is about fishing. Which is just about fishing. Tickles, touches, and takes. A fishing show. I like that. Because there's tickles. Yeah. When you're fishing, there's tickles.

Yep. There's touches. There's takes. So, tickles, touches, and takes. There's also like grabs. They're all the same to me. There's like grabs and nibbles and smacks and bumps or a puss in the pot no and especially because you're saying it that voice

well i had to say it that way because yesterday i'm gonna tell this whole story it's a great story yesterday so now then i'll say something to annoy my wife, and it won't take. So we were pulling shrimp pots, and I was expressing my enthusiasm to catch an octopus. And I said, I hope we get a big octopus. Then a while later, I said, a puss in the pot. And she had zero response. So then I had to say, a puss in the pot. At which point, then she got annoyed. So I had to soup it up.

I was annoyed the first time you said it for the record. Then I got the response I was after, which was annoying. Do you hit that line every once in a while when you're out there just to see if it's still? That's all I've been saying. All day. All day. That's all I've been saying.

Seth. Yep. Partial owner of the Rot partial owner of the rotten a-frame his co-owner kelsey morris and my co-owner and wife co-owner and wife kelsey morris of the rotten a-frame and also the wonderful art gallery in three forks montana boom yeah plug the gallery i've been telling you should come on and plug your gallery. Yeah, thanks. The studio gallery in Three Forks, literally the only

art establishment in town, Three Forks, Montana. It's just my little studio and gallery. Imagine that. Kelsey used to be a, you were like a fertilizer salesman.

I sold agricultural implements. She sold agricultural implements and wanted to, you know, artists dream of quitting their day job. Self-taught painter. agricultural implements yeah she sold agricultural implements and wanted to you know every artist dream of quitting their day job self-taught painter quit her day job um but like built up to it yeah did started selling work and doing commissions yep did it all on the side for a very long time until it you know got to my wits end and just made the leap. And then left your day job, opened a gallery where you sell your own work,

the works of others. Yes. And you work in there. And when people are in Three Forks, they can come in. You'll be in there working. And then you can see you. You probably don't like them to watch you work, do you? People come and hang out and watch me work all the time.

It's kind of a cool experience because you just walk in the front door and whatever I'm working on, I'm there. And then the gallery where I represent nine other really awesome artists is just right around the corner. So it's like a separate room. You can go in there and take your time and check it out. And you have your own work in there. Yeah.

I have a wall and then everybody else is kind of spread out across the other walls it's not a huge space but it's i've curated who i think are really a talented uh talented collection so everybody's different nobody overlaps and subjects so it's you know it's awesome in my opinion no it's great it's, you know, it's awesome in my opinion. No, it's great. It's beautiful. And your work looks great. Thanks.

Yeah. It's better all the time. Yeah. My daughter's close on your heels. She is. We're going to work on that this week. She's an inspiring painter. I brought her some supplies.

And also joining us today is my son, Jim Bobway. How you doing, buddy? Good. I told him to keep his answers very brief and to be very respectful, didn't I? Yeah. See how good of a job he's doing? That would have normally taken him a long time to say all that, but he got it done quick.

Oh, so here, we're going to talk about a couple things and I'm going to tell my amazing octopus story with witnesses. I haven't heard this yet, by the way. So get ready. There's a couple of versions, I have a feeling. Already? What versions?

Of the octopus story. No, just one version. Okay. I'm imagining the Kraken. Yeah. Okay. It was like that. Like Steve has a couple different versions.

It was like a Leviathan. No, no, no, no. I mean, he has a. You have your version. And I have a feeling my version will be slightly different. Oh. Yeah, because your version was experienced from as far away from the octopus as you could get. Yeah. We had different motivations.

In the back of the boat. Mom's was also more of a near-death experience. And yours was try to get in the boat. And mom. She was picturing us dying. Yeah. Were you there mom She was picturing us dying and I was picturing us coming in. I was picturing us coming into the cove as heroes. Yeah, well mom was

expecting you to not return to the cove. Oh, the fact that an octopus can give you the fear of death means Yeah. You should probably stay tuned for the story. It was a lunker. Andy just got back from Spain where he was eating octop eating octopus yeah yeah we ate a lot of octopus they obviously haven't caught on to that my octopus teacher movie over there nope they haven't translated that to spanish

we'll cover all things octopus oh and also when we talk about octopus i want to talk about that story from puget sound which one's probably touched on it before i'll tell it later yeah uh maui this is an interesting story you know like when uh programs like hunters for the hungry and other programs where you are able to donate wild game and then the wild game will go um they'll usually grind it to burger generally you donate deer meat deer meat gets ground to burger and it goes to families in need oddly in hawaii that was not legal so they have this they have a what some people regard to be i'm choosing my words carefully here what some people regard to be a problem with way too many axis deer. So that would mean in the eyes of everyone who doesn't hunt axis deer,

there are too many axis deer. In the eyes of people who hunt and eat axis deer, they probably have a feeling that things are just right. So they have a lot of axis deer on Maui. They're trying to incentivize and help lower numbers. It's a non-native, of course. Axis deer, I know this just from when I hunted axis deer in Hawaii, were a gift from someone from the Indian subcontinent

where they're native to, had given them to like King Kamea, Kamea III, gave them some axis deer. And now they're running all over holy hell all over the Hawaiian Islands they have no predators right no nothing so up until HB 1382 or act

54 nonprofits were not allowed to donate game meat to under resresourced communities, including the homeless. But Governor Josh Green, who I know nothing about, just signed a law saying that now you can donate the meat. The problem now they have, the bottleneck now,

is they just don't have a lot of processing capabilities and people have touched on the fact people have touched on the fact of Hawaii's food we're gonna there's another story I want to talk about that gets into this too Hawaii has very low food autonomy they're heavily reliant on outside resources, and they don't have a lot of in-state capabilities to process meat. But they're sitting on some 60,000 axis deer, plus wild hogs, goats, and sheep. They have people who are underserved and in need of food and so they're trying to clean up a system or develop a system and clean up the legal obstacles to being able to kill axis deer and get the meat to the needy you guys don't think anything about that jimmy what do you think about that buddy i don't really understand it but okay there's an island yes it has a bunch of deer on it

okay you remember when we went to maui yeah okay i spent time with it was illegal to shoot a deer and donate the meat for a non-profit to take deer meat and donate it to people who don't have enough food well i understand that part and now it's people who don't have enough food. Well, I understand that part of it. And now it's legal. What's the. So you do understand. What's the argument against doing that? I have no idea.

I know in just being in the food industry, you butt up against a lot of legal stuff when you're trying to give people food just because everybody's so happy to sue each other you know um i end up with a lot of leftover stuff but anything that's been pre-cooked or out of the package is is just a no-no because you don't know where it's been or how it's been handled and i kind of treat it the same way if people say oh we have all this leftover stuff i don't know if it's been sitting in the trunk of somebody's car for two days and then i serve it to people and then you get you know 300 people sick so it is i understand that but if there was a facility that was set up specifically for processing that went right to you know like i said they need to clean up that system and be able to

to get it directly to the people that they need to get it to funny you mentioned that because this article goes on to say how federal regulations complicate the situation because wild animals such as deer are considered non-amenable species federal officials won't inspect them for free yeah Yeah. However, they'll inspect cows, chicken, pigs, and other farm-raised meat animals for free. So someone's selling wild game commercially. Now, there's two very different things we're talking about here. I am generally, I'm not a subject matter expert on what's going on in hawaii i am generally absolutely opposed to the commercial sale of um the commercial sale of hunter harvested wild game sure not the donation of but they're talking about anyone interested in selling wild game commercially has to pay hefty inspection

fees like they have to foot the bill on the inspection fees hundreds of dollars per hour and in Hawaii they don't have a lot of people interested in going into the meat processing business now this ties into another point made by somebody else an article just came out in the Independent, which is weird because it's a Brit publication that seems to cover a lot of U.S. wildlife issue stuff, oddly. In the Independent, there's an article about a landlord in Brooklyn, New York, who has put in a prohibition from their tenants cooking meat you can only cook vegan meals in their apartment building come on what is that you can order take in you can order take out

with meat you cannot cook meat in their apartment building no way they are vegan there are 14 protected classes of people in new york and food choice is not one of them you can't discriminate by age religion gender but you can discriminate by what folks like to eat for supper what what if someone though had like a really serious peanut allergy? Like those people on the plane that you can't even open. When the stewardess comes on, she's like,

there's someone with a very severe allergy. You can't even open something. These people identify as full freaking vegan. Right, but my question is, if you're a landlord and you live in a residence and you have a super sensitive food allergy, could you say you can't? Well, yeah, because there's no law saying that they can't say this. But would that be, I mean, it sounds ridiculous.

It sounds ridiculous, but they're totally covered. And I don't think that this is one of those areas where my personal feelings about food go up against my feelings about personal liberty. I don't think it should be illegal. I think that a landlord should be able to have much more latitude than they do have about who they rent to so i'm not arguing that a landlord like i would say if you own a home and you're renting it out that people can stay there i would think you should have massive latitude about who you choose to rent it to and i would even open up the idea that some of these things that are prohibited by the law should be fair game for a landlord to choose who lives in their place just as a person who believes in in some level of like like a high

level of personal autonomy about what you're doing um what you're doing with your property that's not having a downstream effect on destroying other people's lives surprising to me that you would be on the landlord side here i think on the flip side of that if there's definitely a handful of tenant potential tenants in new york people that would be like that's my jam sign me up i'll pay you know what i mean like we view that as a total negative but i'm sure there's some folks out there that love it like people would pay a premium for that yeah i don't i don't like it but i'm just saying i would never say i like i i think to myself oh that's that's disdainful yeah but i wouldn't come and argue that the law should be otherwise because those sorts of liberties mean as much or more to me as does what you have

what's the threshold for you to change your mind how many landlords would it take i own my home for you to well i mean just for the folks out there you know that are renting like what at what point does it limit housing for I don't foresee that becoming a problem. Sure. Steve, though, when we lived in New York, up until eight years ago, we rented. Yeah. And nine years ago, I guess,

we rented every place we ever lived in, and you broke every rule that the landlord gave you. Like, don't store stuff in the basement. We, like, colonized the entire basement with all't store stuff in the basement we like colonize the entire basement with all of our stuff and we ate squirrels that we caught in our own yard we did yeah i didn't even check about that rule i was assuming that wasn't a rule a guy the guy that wrote in with this so a listener uh named jake sent in that story and went on to say he's experienced this he had a place he was a renter

he's a spear fisherman from hawaii um once rented a house in hilo is hilo am i saying that right um that would uh that they didn't want anyone cooking any meat or fish okay because they said they would this landlord didn't want to cleanse the house of foul smells to keep foul smells away and he goes on to bring up this idea about in hawaii hawaii has very low food autonomy and everything comes in there's a huge business to it coming in a lot of money is made in transporting storing food so he said if you in this idea of counter-culturalism that comes from being like no cooking of meat in my home he said the most punk rock thing you can do in hawaii if you're in hawaii and you really want to stick it to the man,

he says, support your local farmers and harvest your own food and whatever means you have is the way to stick it to the man in Hawaii. And thinks that this person who doesn't want them, a spear fisherman cooking the fish he killed, has it all wrong. I'd be curious to know with the food program, if there's anyone that is opposed to it.

I wonder what Kimmy thinks about that. I wonder what Danny thinks about that. Oh, you mean the, oh, back to the first one. No, I think it's one of those. It's probably one of those issues. We had a guy on the episode called The Lung King. We had a guy on who, he's a doctor. And one day he uncovered, so if you go back and scroll back in the episodes, you'll come to an episode called The Lung King.

We recorded that at the height of the Liver King's popularity. So we call it The Lung King. We recorded that at the height of the Liver King's popularity. So we call it the Lung King. Before his downfall? Just a physician was on, and the physician had taken an interest in eating organs and cultural biases around organ consumption and the haggis, a very popular dish in Scotland, which has lung in it, and realized that the sale and distribution of lung in the U.S., it's illegal.

Really? And he asked himself, well, why in the world would that be? And it was based on this very antiquated understanding of disease transmission that doesn't hold up. It was like based, it just had been in there. It was put in there at some point under this idea, which is not in fact true, that eating lung was more likely to spread disease than X, Y, and Z proteins. And it just was a law and he's been lobbying to get the law overturned and had some success at it but just something that was sitting on the books and whoever put it there had sort of lost track of why it was there there's a ton of stuff like

that and and so this this hawaii situation probably something at some point in time someone said you shouldn't be able to do that for sure and then they sort of forgot what it was that happened uh what's the organization that's doing it again that's cool it's cool what's the name well i don't even know who's doing it it's just the governor signed a law saying you can't that non i don't know any of the non-profits that are fixing to do it but the governor signed a law saying that they can sell it um i feel like though i saw something about this on tim ferris's instagram i think there's a private company that's doing it well they're trying to sell it yeah right yeah so that this is totally separate this is more like hunters for the hungry yeah yeah there's a whole other movement to try to shoot it and sell it but this this is trying to shoot it and donate it. Got it, got it, got it, got it.

Which we're allowed here on the mainland, even though we're not on the mainland right now, down there on the mainland. That's very common, that we have a ton of programs where people can get venison. If you're trying to lower deer numbers on your property, you can get venisonison donate that venison to a food bank

they generally will pay for processing they have it all ground up and then that ground meat can go into various communities in need here's a crazy one this was reported in time remember those guys I didn't know they

were still in action uh insane 37 this is crazy 37 people uh 37 people bitten by sharks so far in 2023 on the on the atlantic seaboard is that a lot ordered to new york 37 bites how many fatalities does i haven't i 37 bites. How many fatalities? I'm not reading about any fatalities. Bites. That's just the Atlantic. New York to Florida. What's common?

What's an acceptable number? Is that more than the average? I don't know that that's unacceptable. I just know that it's... Does that feel like a lot to you? It's a real spike. They say that... You know, like every article,

and this isn't the, I'm not dogging on climate activists, but climate activists like to take anything and make it about. So this is, it's like, it's hot. Since it's so hot, more people are going to the beach. So it's like. Oh, it doesn't, they're not saying there's different activity in sharks because there's some. hot, more people are going to the beach. They're not saying there's different activity in sharks because there's water temperature. What's going on with sharks is

finning has been banned for a couple decades now. It was like after, when we used to have a poison campaign on, we used to fund at the federal level the poisoning of predators um and now when you look in mountain lion populations are expanding and growing all around the country and they're colonizing new areas black bear populations expanding

colonizing new areas wolf populations expanding grizzly bear populations expanding you're still feeling that you're still feeling that chain that the effect of that regulatory change to stop the poisoning campaign of predators and other predator protections so when they banned finning like in international waters and some state you used to be able to go out and just collect shark fins, which are valuable. Then they changed it where a vessel, I might have my numbers wrong, but it's something like a vessel that's transporting shark parts. Fins can only comprise, I don't have the numbers exactly right but fins it's something like this fins can only comprise 30 of your total shark part haul that you bring into port which makes it economically like infeasible to to effectively shark yeah other states have outright said other states have outright just

done away with any kind of commercial shark harvest so you're seeing just shark numbers you we're seeing the effects of all the all the shark protection where like this this recovery and expansion of shark numbers but But this is trying to make a hook. So this article in Time, no, this one's from Bloomberg. I'm looking at two articles. One from Time, talking about a lot of shark bites. One from Bloomberg,

they're expanding the drone fleet in New York, which looks for sharks. So they're going to spend a million bucks deploying 42 drones to scout beaches. So you can put a drone up in the air and scout for sharks. And they're saying how, see, they wanted to see, for you folks that didn't study journalism when you were youngsters, you need a hook. So yeah, not for fishing sharks, but for journalism.

Yeah. Your hook would be. I was almost confused there. Why now? Why now? Right? So, you go to an editor. If you're a writer, you're like, hey, I want to write a thing about cattle rustling.

And they're like, well, why now? What's the hook? Well, this is hyperlinked. Record shattering heat. Driving lots of people to the beaches. Where they might get bit by a shark i mean that is terrifying though get bit by a shark yeah man as a mom too having kids in the ocean so if they collect all this data from the drone um footage then what's the solution no they're just using it to close they're just using it to watch for sharks in case they got to close

the beach do they net beaches or do they it to watch for sharks in case they've got to close the beach. Do they net beaches or do they just close them all together? No, close them. They close them. They're putting a drone up. When people are swimming, they're putting a drone up to watch for great whites and stuff coming in.

Wait, why great whites? Aren't they the least likely to attack people? Yeah, but I mean, they're bad mother lickers. And so, I mean, there's probably other sharks as well, but I think that's a real scary one. That's not who's biting folk. Yeah, I think it's more tiger and bull sharks. Jimmy, you were just

swimming with... The propane is smelling strong over here. Did you pause? No. We're still rolling. I think we could probably take a little break to make sure the shack's not going to explode. It's not, because if it was going to blow up, it already would have done it, because the pilot light's lit. Oh, shoot. I kind of looked at the fireplace.

You're fine, buddy. All right. Here's a correction on a correction. On a recent episode, my lovely bride and I, years ago, you might remember this. This is the kind of thing you, no, you remember this. Long ago, we were in Salta, Argentina. Yep. And we went to see those Incan.

Yep. Children. Children that were killed and sacrificed on a high mountaintop and they were perfectly preserved. And I believe the one that was on display when we were there had been struck by lightning. What? It was the girl. The older girl. It's not really, but kind of like this okay 1491 sure okay so you're it's

this last glimpse of the incan empire pre-european contact and they had these children i already told this story once so bear with me if you've heard it it so they they were able to get stable isotopes on these children and these these children that i'm speaking of these three kids kind of like my kids ages um better watch yourself that's a good thought stable isotopes from their body suggested These children that I'm speaking of, these three kids, kind of like my kids' ages. Better watch yourself. That's a good thought. Stable isotopes from their bodies suggested they had lived on potatoes their entire life. You're right about the propane smell.

I'm sorry. I feel like we're... Listen. I mean, I feel like it's valid enough to check out. Let's just wave a lighter around and see what happens. I had to change propane tanks okay all of the pilots went out i was trying to get the burner lit i was all the tanks out so i opened two doors for cross ventilation okay

should we open went in lit the pilots heated up this reheat coffee. There's a residual. There's an additive in propane. What's that stuff called? To make you smell it so you don't like. You wouldn't smell it. There's an additive. And one day my buddy, my late buddy, who just to bring this full circle,

his picture is hanging above the vacuum sealer over there. He one time was in, I believe he was in Wichita, Kansas, and the whole town smelled like it was going to blow up. And it wound up being the place that makes the shit you put in propane to give it its smell had had a leak. They leaked the stuff you put in propane to make propane smell. So he said it gave you the unnerving feeling that you were going to blow the entire planet up if you lit a match. Yeah. Well, I'm going to open up the other door. Because I feel like maybe it's psychosomatic, but I have a headache. It is hot in here, too. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada.

And boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes. And our raffle and sweepstakes law makes it that they can't join. Whew, our northern brothers get irritated. Well, if you're sick of, you know, sucking high and titty there, OnX is now in Canada. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. The Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps

that include public and crown land hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24 K topo maps, waypoints, and tracking. That's right. You were always talking about, uh, we're always talking about on X here on the meat eater podcast. Now you, um, you guys in the great white North can, can be part of it. Be part of the excitement. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. That's a sweet function. As part of your membership, you'll gain access to exclusive pricing on products and services handpicked by the OnX Hunt team.

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Where was I? James, where was I? Stable isotopes. Oh, the children the children children eating potatoes so these kids had just eaten taters it seems and then they had experienced months of this varied diet full of meats and fishes and things and they had these children were sacrificed and buried in this little rock cavern with literally hundreds of emblems and little treasures and carvings and gold and and ivory items and it seems as though they had selected some children for whatever however they selected them they selected some children and whatever, however they selected them.

They had selected some children and taken these children on a tour through the Incan Empire. And throughout this tour were regaled with all of these treasures and offerings. Okay. Then the children were taken up to this peak. It was like 14 000 feet um and gotten they got them drunk on a rice they got them drunk on a not rice they got them drunk on a fermented potato beverage i believe i can't remember what a fermented corn drink okay um they were giving them cocoa leaves which helps with elevation they got them drunk and it seems like

the 13 year old girl maybe realized what was going to happen and didn't like it because they had struck her in the head but the other younger kids were just fine it seems they got them wasted yeah arrange them in this rock cavern on top of this peak and just left them there as offerings. I thought the strike on the head was from the lightning. No. Then over the subsequent centuries, at some point in time, one of them was struck by lightning. How were they so well preserved? Well, that's what we're getting to my correction.

It's so cold and i had years ago when i was working on an article about freeze-dried food i had read up on sublimation and i had later read that those that the moisture and their that they sublimated meaning the moisture in their bodies went from a frozen to a gaseous state and never melted. So you could still see, like they were buried with feathers and things, and it's perfect. You could recognize the child.

They're only allowed to display one at a time, and it's like you're looking at a, it's like you expect the child to wake up. That is freaky. Jeez. Very well preserved. Wow. But centuries old right so i had talked about how they were sublimated and some person wrote in with a very intimidating

correction that they were not in fact sublimated and i read that correction and i took took my lumps and and said okay what you're so good at doing took my lumps then a guy wrote in to say that guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about oh god they didn't sublimate he said you can go watch uh go out on a dry winter day he points out to montana because i lived there he says go out and watch on a dry winter day. He points out to Montana because I lived there. He says, go out and watch on a dry winter day. Snow on a hillside. It never gets above freezing. And snow on a hillside will just vanish. Nothing's wet.

It just vanishes. You're watching that snow sublimates. It's not melting. It's just evaporating. That could be a new game. You know how you like the game Alive or Dead? You talk about people.

Dead or alive. This could be like sublimated or not sublimated. Yeah, talk about a freaky thing and then talk about whether it's sublimated or not. Sublimation happens all the time, this guy's saying.

So take that. So do you take your lumps back? Yeah. I think I am. Or you mean that guy is? Oh, the guy that wrote in is. Me and him are right. The last guy.

I want the first guy to jump back in. I know. I think this is unfinished. You'll hear from him. Here's the thing that has nothing to do with anything. And if someone wrote in about an interesting thing, and I don't think they really get what I'm talking about, but it's still interesting.

Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. Yep. The Streisand effect. Okay. You familiar with this? I can't define it for you, but yeah. We have covered exhaustively, and we'll continue to cover,

the Wyoming corner crossing case because of its implications to land access, meaning there are millions of federally managed public lands you can't get to, but if you were allowed to corner cross, meaning you picture a checkerboard land ownership, and the black squares are public and the white squares are private if you were if it was legal to without stepping on the white to step from the black to the black right that would open up millions of acres of of access it's a contentious issue so we've covered a case that the whole world is watching well let's say the whole country's watching the whole country's watching this wyoming corner crossing case and i have repeatedly over the years of covering this

brought up that uh that i i equate them and then i apologize for the analogy i like to point out that they were not that initially i thought that the miss Missouri hunters that did the famous corner crossing in Wyoming, which led to this big legal challenge. I thought that they were activists. I assume they were activists who were trying to get arrested in order to test something in the courts. And I had said,

I had imagined them as being a Rosa parks, like figure doing civil disobedience, but they were just dudes from Missouri who thought they found a sweet hunting spot. imagine them as being a Rosa Parks-like figure doing civil disobedience, but they were just dudes from Missouri who thought they found a sweet hunting spot. Oh, no, this guy's comment does make a little bit of sense. They never had the intention, and then we were talking about how now this landowner, no, this guy's exactly right the more I think this through, and I'll get to it. The landowner used to have a problem with four dudes from Missouri now and then corner crossing onto his place,

but this guy now is going to have, it's going to, you know that famous picture during the Alaska gold rush of people coming out of Whittier and going up that mountain to get into the Yukon? That's what this dude's corner is going to look like from now on. The Streisand effect is like when you draw attention to something. So this guy's exactly right. Had that guy just shut up and said to those Missouri dudes,

listen, I see what y'all are up to here. And why don't you come over and have a cup of coffee? Let's just keep this between us. You keep hunting because if this gets out, it's's gonna be a shit show yeah but it's out so barbara streisand i never heard this barbara streisand long ago was in a had a photo of her home in malibu um taken it was about coastal erosion so a journalist was covering coastal erosion. So a journalist was covering coastal erosion and catches a photo of Barbra Streisand outside her home in Malibu,

which was suffering from coastal erosion. She wanted it taken down. It somehow had wound up in the public record and she wanted her photo of her outside of her house in Malibu, not part of the public record. She takes it to court. Prior to her taking it to court,

the story, even though the photo was part of the public record, the photo had been accessed six times, twice by her own lawyer. Okay? After the lawsuit became public in the news, it racked up hundreds of thousands of downloads. That's the Streisand effect.

Yep. Um, also guy wrote in speaking of, we talked about, we had the guest on David Grand author of the wager. They're making, uh, another one of David Grand's books, killers of the flower moon into a movie sturgill simpson um is in that movie and someone

wanted to let us know that sturgill simpson was also in a zombie movie in 2019 thanks for the note um called the dead don't die big thing about another starvation experience we're not going to get into and the last thing i want to cover is this and james i think you'll take great interest in this ready for this yep especially because buddy you don't know this because you were too little you know that that photo on our fridge you guys always putting the magnets over everybody's body parts. Oh, yeah. Because you kids are all skinny dipping in the river.

Right there. Okay. What he's talking about was right there in Calicoon on the Delaware River. We used to fish there a lot. And you liked to fish there when you were super little. I grew up. This is a guy writing in what's his name dan i grew up along the upper delaware river between calicoon and hancock that

was our float we would float from calicoon to hand not hancock a stretch of river in which we caught nine species of game fish my grandfather first started tapping for bullhead in the river back in the 1940s he would get so many bullhead that he would sell them to local bait shops who would buy them who would sell them to smallmouth bass fishermen three to five inch bullhead he says the to smallmouth bass fishermen. Three to five inch bullhead, he says, the best smallmouth bass bait. And he would tap for them. Now, you're probably wondering what that means. Yeah, what's that mean?

Well, I'll tell you. It involves wading in zero to 18 inches of water along the bank. Zero. And you got to get a big hammer. Okay. Walk up to a rock. Raise your hand when you know where this is going.

Andy and Seth have raised their hands. You walk up to a rock with a big hammer. I'd imagine you'd just tap the rock. Whap! Feels too easy. Or another rock. Oh, because it's underneath?

Whap! Then you flip the rock. It will stun the bullhead and knock it unconscious. Its white belly will be turned up. Scoop it up. Put it in a perforated bucket. That's all sitting in the current.

And within a few minutes, he'll be woken up and back to fine. Oh, there you go. That's a hot little tip. Just done her. He says, Wally dogs and eels won't leave alone either.

He has poked around online, has never found anyone talking about tapping bullheads tubers kayakers canoers from the city come by see out there at that hammer and they just look at you i imagine so i used to fish in delaware a bit but it was further downstream around stockton and then Washington's Crossing. Oh, you used fish there? That's patriotic. What if you just hit the rock too hard with the hammer and just kind of

crushed the bullhead? Well, I think you ought to walk out the door here and get a hammer and go see if you can tap some sculpins. Yeah. You could lose some extra tools. And then leave your tools down below the tide line. Then I find them later and scream at you.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that we need any more. Yeah, like your pliers. Yeah. Jimmy the other day lost a pair of my fishing pliers. And I got a text from Brody who's up here with us and Brody said Jimmy deep six your fishing pliers and he's sweating bullets I bet you were yeah I was scared I was down here at the end we're working on stuff at our place and

Jimmy paddles over he goes hey Seth I got a question for you I was down here at the end. We were working on stuff at our place and Jimmy paddles over and he goes, hey Seth, I got a question for you. I was like, what? He goes, what would you do if you lost your dad's pliers? Jimmy went to multiple neighbors. He went and asked our other neighbor what advice did he give you? To be up front and he won't be

mad, but he first offered just to give us new pairs of pliers. That's not be up front and he won't be mad but he first offered just to give us new pairs of pliers that's not very upfront that's sneaky uh this we haven't covered this is an old story now and it was covered on the meat eater.com but i just wanted to touch on it real quick this would be a good one this is for james new zealand has a feral cat problem james and they and they every year they try to kill some millions of cats or whatever New Zealand has a feral cat problem, James. And every year they try to kill some millions of cats or whatever. They used to have a thing where they would get a bunch of youngsters from school to go out and kill cats. It's a biosecurity issue.

You'd love that, probably. That'd be fun. The one piece of advice to the youngsters, don't kill any people's pets. What? How would you really tell the difference? You win money killing cats. Collar is probably the difference.

I don't know. Animal welfare groups have shut it down. They would prefer professionals be out killing those cats and not kids. Yeah. What? Yeah. Get out of here. I agree.

Give me an argument for why in the world kids wouldn't be allowed if the country's trying to get rid of cats that they can't do their patriotic duty and get rid of cats because i feel like there's like a a slippery slope killing cats is like the number one sign of a serial killer i mean that's what you think of like sociopath i mean now steve you used to kill cats for cash. Yeah. So that's probably why you feel like this should happen. They're not the way it is.

Also. No, I used to do some cat work. But it's important to point out, I did cat work for dairy farmers. Yes. I'm not saying that you were in this latter category they were just talking about of like sociopathic children that were just killing cats. Five bucks a cat. Four dairy farmers

who were trying to keep, to control feline distemper. I feel like... How do you tell a kid, like, go out and kill that cat, but not another cat? Like, wouldn't that be confusing? Well, first off,

I'm a kid, so I can say this. Yeah. Go ahead. Kids are dumb. Okay, go on. Especially when you were to give a kid a weapon and tell him to look for something on a cat that would make it different from another cat. I don't think that they'd be very good at following those

rules you guys aren't ever gonna be on this show again no i'm not saying anything against it i'm just saying that i can understand accurate yeah yeah organizers who where does this where's this article from bbc uh organizers of the North Canterbury hunting competition announced the cancellation of the cat event on Tuesday, saying they had received vile and inappropriate emails. Probably one probably from my wife. We are disappointed and apologize for those who are excited to be involved in something that is about protecting our native birds

and other vulnerable species. This is a tough one. This is a tough one. It's a tough one. But do we have to involve the kids is my question. Like, you know. If only people who knew the damage wild cats cause around the place, one

local wrote, they also affect our farming. Goes on to point out all the ways. And then the author of the article in the end even comes around to the recognition that they should kill these

cats. But they would like to see professionals kill them. How do you be a professional at killing cats? Doesn't seem like... I don't know. just call yourself i don't know you just got like kids pro kids name name tags with a little badge on it that says i'm professional they start trying to buy it back in the end adding cats to the hit list though is a politically contentious issue it's not a question of whether these invasive felines should be cold but who should do the

killing then they go on to have a nice little cliche it's not rocket science it's not rocket science cat killing it should be undertaken only by experienced people using approved and proven humane methods certainly not children how young is young? Far from handing them guns and desensitizing them to animal cruelty, we should be teaching them empathy toward animals. How young is too young to kill a cat, Steve? How young is too young to kill a rat? I remember your kid killing a rat so young, he shot it in his underwear. Yeah. We got him out of bed. we got him out of bed to get it yeah he was like five or six and look at how pathological he is now no i'm asking a

legitimate question like how how old was he then he was six maybe he was in bed before it got dark out yeah when was the last time you did that? Two weeks ago. Stay in the summer times. It doesn't get dark until 10. Summer times in Montana are long days. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to tell my octopus story. All right.

Pulling shrimp pots. The other day we got a small octopus pulling shrimp pots and we went out we were having a hell of a terrible pull one pot had i don't know what happened one pot had you never see this zero had nothing in it. Not a hermit crab. Really? Yeah, that's rare. I don't know what happened. I feel like it landed on something. Was it not on the bottom?

The bait was not touched, though. I can't figure out. Bait untouched, not a hermit crab. I can't picture what it landed on. It must have landed on, like, I don't know. Nothing. You get Irish lords. Here's what all you get.

You get squat lobsters, Irish lords. I've seen rockfish come up in them. Starfish. Juvenile tanners. Sea stars. Starfish. Hermit crabs. Mollusks.

Coonstripe shrimp, spot prawns, you name it. Box crabs. Anything down there that's hungry. Nothing come up in this thing. And I got to saying, if we could get a big octopus, it'd turn this day around. And then I i said you know so we're pulling pots and and i love my my shrimp and mentor ron layton once told me pulling pots always have a gaff ready because he said now and then a big puss Can we not with that? I know Speaking of pathological

A big octopus Thank you What's the diameter of a hole On a shrimp pot Andy? Yeah what is it? Two to three inches Two inch diameter hole A big octopus

A 20 pound octopus can get into a shrimp pot by putting one arm in and then they squish their head in and they eventually get all their arms there and they'll get in there and a lot of times you'll pull it up and the octopus will just be in there and you defies logic how he can wiggle himself in there but they can just get in through the funnel but my my shrimp and mentor taught me that now and then you get a big one and he'll ride the trap up and it's good to have a gap so you can get him and drag him in the boat and he in particular would would make a wonderful smoked octopus and he would jar it yeah and he would jar it without remember not a lot of liquid they were good he would like tenderize it boil it smoke it he'd

smoke the arms cut the arms up and then and then jar them but only like a quarter inch of liquid it basically you could rattle it around the octopus pressure canned octopus very good dish yeah um his mother was simshian that was her uh she she was native alaskan so he always told me that we're pulling pots and i and i'm always stand up on the bow of the boat and stare down to see the pot come up i don't know why and i can't even make out what i'm seeing like it's like it doesn't read like what i'm seeing doesn't register and what happens is a pot comes up, and it is draped with an octopus the likes of which I have never seen in my life. What color was it? Orange.

Orange. Like bright orange? Mm-hmm. That's cool. You check me on this. Mm-hmm. If I was holding the end of one of his arms right here. Yeah. the end of one of his arms right here yeah jimmy could get not to that counter over there but a

good way toward that counter and he'd be holding the other arm really yeah geez oh my god i wish i could well i'll get to what all how strong this thing was that's like what 16 18 feet no he wasn't that big oh but way bigger than me to jimmy how big was the head like that's oh the mantle on it like like seth's waist really just you know maybe like my weight just just i never see anything like it i mean arms like like arms like my thighs at the base i'm not joking the video that i saw where it came off of the main body where all the legs came together you have a video massive katie does yes i need to see this were you freaking out i didn't know they got like that i grabbed the gaff no could you see

first of all this whole like my fishing mentor always told me to have a gaff ready. The gaff was not ready. No, it wasn't. Like, you did not have the gaff. I love it. I did grab the gaff. I gaffed it. No, you said, hand me the gaff.

I need the gaff. Give me the gaff. And then the gaff was stuck, and you're like, give me the damn gaff. So you did not have the gaff ready when you were standing at the front of the boat. No, I did not. Okay, I left out that part. I'm imagining so much chaos yelling. But he did always say to have the gaff ready.

Yes, which you did not. Okay. It was in the boat. It's not that big of a boat. So you said, hand me the gaff. And then we got you the gaff. I left out a detail. He was carrying shrimp under his arms like Person Hall in Firewood.

The first thing I was doing was getting all of our shrimp back because he's like unfurling himself from this thing and i'm throwing shrimp into the boat he's got like you remember that time you snagged that big one and he opened up tell him what happened he was a shovel and a man listen to this story just yeah i had a whole cache of all kind of stuff that was he snagged it on accident. Yeah, pulled that thing up, and when it unfurled it, yeah, it just had a cache of all kind of goodies in there. Really? Like stuff he's bringing home with him.

This guy, he's all tangled and everything, and I'm just firing shrimp into the boat. True? That's true. Yeah, that's true. I have a question about his appearance, because I'm trying to imagine. He's just dropping shrimp everywhere.

He's got them all wrapped up Where are his eyes and how big are they How big are his eyes If my fist is his mantle his eyes are like here How big were they Do you have a visual I'm just trying to visualize I never looked him in the eye

It happened so quickly Also I was a little bit reluctant To give you the gaffe And I realized what this is I'm going to really But also, I was a little bit reluctant to give you the gaffe. And I realized what this is. I'm going to really cast myself here as someone who is anti. Like kind of an enemy of the show. An enemy of the show. But after the cat conversation.

But my initial instinct was not like. To kill him. Gaffe that thing. She thought it was a bit much. I was like that. Like a little octopus. But she like that. Like a little octopus but she thought that this was a large majestic octopus.

I was totally in awe of it and also I was like I said to you I was like what's your plan? Like what's your plan? What are you going to do? Like get it in the boat and then I mean this thing was like as big as the boat. And so

like he was thinking like next up, like grab it. But then it was like, well, what if it grabs him? What if it like pulls him in? You know? And then I'm like, also like, that's a huge octopus. Do we need that much octopus? Are we really going to eat that much octopus? You were thinking all that?

Yes. She was saying all this. I told her I'm going to smoke it. Yeah you were thinking all that yes she was saying all this i told her i'm gonna smoke it yeah so he's like yell as he's like i'm gonna smoke it and i'm gonna do this and i'm like maybe we just like watch it yeah and then let it go that might have been my reaction but i have no idea what i would do honestly i'll get to it let's all right that's not now for all you people who are all hopped up on the octopus teacher, my octopus teacher, I'm going to tell you something. How often do you catch an octopus with all eight of his arms?

Yeah, not that often. They're always losing their arms. I think hell would tear them off. Some asshole with a gap. No, they lose their arms. I want you to know this story. Just to be clear, an octopus can lose his whole damn arm. We recently caught an octopus that was running lose their arms. I want you to know that this story, just to be clear, an octopus can lose his whole damn arm.

We recently caught an octopus that was running out of arms. Were you there for that? No. He had like missing one. He had a half of one. Looked rough. No, I didn't see that.

They regrow, right? They regrow their arms. He's unfurling himself. I'm trying to get our shrimp back and whatnot. And then I take the gaff. So this is a halibut gaff and imagine a nightstick like an old-fashioned cop from old-fashioned cop movie from back when they had like union busters and whatnot like an old-fashioned cop nightstick a little mini baseball bat and And out of it, at a 45 degree angle, is a stainless steel spike, about 3 eighths diameter at the base maybe. Comes to a fine point, no barb.

What's that spike? 7 inches long, 8 inch spike? Coming at a 45 degree angle. And it's, you foop into a fish. Fwa! I take the gaff and I, and he's got these big meaty arms and I into the base of one of his arms. Okay. And I'm trying to get them in the boat, but you can't budge this thing.

Cause at this point he's latched on to the underside of the boat and probably so strong to the point where I've got a foot of the boat. And probably so strong. To the point where I've got a foot over the boat. I'm straddling the gunnel trying to use one of my feet to get his arms freed up. So he detached from the pot and attached to the boat?

Yes. He's stuck like all over the boat. And I'm trying to pry him free. He's looking back. he's looking back at at me and katie and i turn and these guys are and he's like so you're just gonna stand there you're just gonna stare at me just stand there and we're like what do you want us to do so then finally her friend also named katie springs into action and she grabs a harpoon shaft but we don't have my big dive knife

that i keep strapped to the boat for bleeding fish that's not in there because i wasn't in my normal boat we don't have the harpoon head we just have a harpoon shaft and we're trying to use the harpoon shaft to pry him off but you don't have eight people. The next day, this morning, I realized I could have just started harvesting the arms one at a time. No, that would have been so upsetting. Which didn't occur to me at the time. Just to start harvesting arms.

Yeah, growing back. And do catch and release. That's like a sustainable harvest. So, I got him and he's working his way down away from me under the boat and i am giving it all of my power holding this gaff handle well then you gave the gaff to katie you said the whole and then she was holding and i was trying to pry him free yeah and then she couldn't hold it any longer. I grabbed it. And she's strong. Yeah. And I grabbed it.

And the octopus is now going down the skiff and away. And I got where my arms are underwater. And you can't get a grip. And eventually, he overpowers me. Jeez. Yeah. And the last we saw of him was just all, I don't know. I have no idea what the thing weighed.

It was... Did he ink? He inked at a point. Gone. Gone from our lives. I have an idea. I might catch him tonight. We have to take Hal with slime and put it all around the entire boat to make it slick

and carry hand grenades. Get some slippy on there. And a pistol. Yeah. I'm never pulling pods without a pistol. I think the story ended the way it was supposed to. I know that kills you. He got away.

But you know he's down there. That's the most exciting thing. Today I dropped the and I go, duh. Puss in the pot. Oh, my God. Stop saying it. But seriously, I don't think, I think if we had gotten it in the boat, you actually did. We would have had a tussle on our hands.

You didn't have a plan. Oh, yeah. Huh? No, I had an absolute plan. What was the plan? I showed you that picture that one we got a couple years back that was big. That was a fraction of the size. Here's what my shrimp and mentor taught me.

This is going to be upsetting to some people, so turn the show off if you're going to be upset by this. My shrimp and mentor, Ron Layton, taught me this. He can very quickly invert. He turns the mantle inside out. And it works good. You can turn the mantle inside out. Can you do that? I've done it.

The one I showed you in that picture. Andy. Which is taller than me. What does that do to it? You turn the mantle inside out. It basically shuts it down. And you just take a knife. How does that?

Cut its brain right off. Well, how does that do? How does turning it inside out? How do you turn it inside out? The mantle inverts. What? Yeah, you can just invert it. You can turn it right inside out.

That's crazy. But that would mean that you would have to, it was really strong, and that would just assume that you would be able to get a grip on it to be able to do that, which I think might have been harder. I believe we would have had a fight on our hands, but I believe we would have gotten it taken care of.

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Welcome to the OnX Club, y'all. So, Andy, when I came back and told you what happened, you told me a story that you had heard. Yeah, well, I've seen a couple different. I've been on a boat where we actually snagged one with a mooching rig and very similar it came up it was early days actually we were fishing in a canoe out on the west side well you'd actually fished in that canoe yeah yeah yeah and we had actually hooked a hooked a big one and it came up and latched itself to the side of the canoe and the same thing but it was still attached to the hooks so we had pliers in that trying to grab the hook

out of this thing because we're you know didn't want to lose our our rod set up you know we're gonna handle it in the canoe no no god no and actually had a hold of with the pliers on the hook and that same thing started moving alongside of that boat and it was so strong that it basically pulled itself right off you know it was close to losing the pliers but the point where it just got almost out of reach it ripped the webbing out of it and it same thing just disappeared right in but i was also talking to an old-time fisherman uh at one point where he similar story where they he got it on on the board i think he was some sort of if he was saying it or whatever but that then came up and wrapped around a leg and an arm so he's actually

fighting this thing and then another arm got a hold of one of the controllers and started smoking the block of the the net and so he almost lost his whole boat because all of a sudden, yeah, he's pulling, he's pulling hydraulic arms that aren't supposed to be, you know, in gear. And luckily he had access to a knife where he got it off his belt and yeah, started hacking at this thing or else he could have, he could have been in serious trouble.

This is a new fear unlocked for me. Because yeah, you think about all eight arms going at one time and they're strong. Oh, they're powerful. Yeah. So you could get a little overpowered in a situation. But yeah, I guess a knife would handle that pretty quickly.

Also, let's say that it had gotten up in the boat and it wrapped itself around you and it pulled you down into the deep. Yeah. We don't know. Katie and I don't know how to drive a boat. Like everyone, there's no plan. Katie does.

That's the problem. We can't get a husband's dog in the riding depths. How are we going to get home? Shit, it's almost dinner time. Now we're stuck out by the rock. She told me she did.

So maybe we would have made it home, but then we would have lost dad. Yeah, that should be the first year concern. To top it off, we were drifting out there for an hour before they came to look for us no I mean everything about it

I still I don't know man it was weird there's a lot of what ifs you know the one that got away yeah I think if it were to pull dad in the water I don't think it would take the time to wrap dad up in it's arm and drag him all the way down I think it would let him go pretty fast.

You had your leg over the edge. No part of you was worried about it wrapping itself around your leg because you wouldn't have been able to let go. And it was strong enough to go down. It could have pulled you down. Man, if that

had happened and you were down the road after a respectable period of time remarried, I'd want you to go to bed every night thinking about me just vanishing through the depths with my knife, with my gasp, fighting that octopus, man. That'd be worth it just to have that haunt you. Just waiting for you to pop up like a rock fish with a splatter out well that's what i'm mainly worried about now is now there's an octopus with a gap we're joking about swimming around down there i'm gonna be out there and all of a sudden that gap spikes gonna come up to the bottom of the boat he still he still has the gap yeah

it won't stay in them because it's like angled there's no barb but he's gonna have it with him with the boat. He still has the gaff? Yeah. Oh, no. It won't stay in him because it's like angled. There's no bar, but he's going to have it with him now whenever he's doing. He's weaponized. He's going to bring

that gaff with him. Me and my dad were joking about this morning that thing's going to be pulled apart and it's going to ride the pot up, get it and jump in the boat.

Just come up swinging. Club my dad in the head, grab him and jump overboard. Sink that gaff into your one-time. That's a little cartoon way to say it. In hindsight, I wish we would have not tried to tangle with him, knowing that he got away. Okay.

Well, but if you... If you pull him up again, would you fight him again? Oh, yeah. Would you try to get your gaff back? Is that going to make you feel... Are you going to have different things in the boat? Like you didn't have, you had a pocket knife yesterday. Yeah, I'm going to get a shoulder holster. And a hand grenade.

Shoot some right through the boat. That would be great. I like your idea of octopus spray. I'm going to get some kind of concoction like bear spray, but for octopuses. I'm going to start putting my pots out, man. And hand grenades. Now, two quick things. This year, you were here for this. I found a dead octopus this spring.

The commercial shrimpers were working our area and I found a dead octopus with a cut open mantle and they just catch them and kill them. Why do they do that? Because they get in there and steal all your shrimp. It's competition. So it's common to kill them and not harvest them.

And here's the funny story I was going to tell you. Is that? Not funny, but this is a little thing about human nature. There was an essay about this. It was called like a tale of two octopuses. And I can't remember where they appeared. I think it was maybe in the New York Times or the New Yorker. Either way, this is in Puget Sound.

One, there was a kid in high school and he was a diver and he was in some food class and so for his senior project or something he was going to be he's going to catch an octopus and cook it for his senior project um and they sign off on this. And he goes down to a beach and goes out with his dive gear and hauls up an octopus. And people in that community have a fit where he hauled the octopus up on the beach to the point where they're trying to get the State Fish and Game Agency to ban the harvest of octopus at that location.

They were so traumatized and this is being covered in the seattle newspaper and the seattle times is being covered with a sympathetic ear to the community at the same time a new seafood restaurant opens up in seattle and their specialty dish is octopus yeah which gets a rave review in the same newspaper it's like in especially try the octopus yeah oh my god in the newspaper at the same time that they're condemning the high school kid for getting the octopus it just shows like a little bit of the out of sight out of mind yeah and that and they confirm, that dish is Pacific octopus. So was there any exposure of the hypocrisy there?

Well, the article, The Tale of Two Octopuses, was an exposure of the hypocrisy. Oh, yeah. It was very similar to a thing that we touched on in Brooklyn earlier. The writer, the Southern writer, Picard Bilger wrote in the New Yorker. He was profiling young youth, youth in Nevada training to be professional bull riders. Okay.

So he's hanging out with ranch and rodeo families and these little kids who are being groomed to become bull riders and so half he but he lives in brooklyn he lives near prospect park in brooklyn so in his article he's juxtaposing these communities where in this community in nevada they're training their children to be bull riders and And in his community where he lives, they have installed real rocks in the park. And the people in the community trying to get the rocks removed because someone could get hurt. And this person's like, I assume they were fake rocks. And when I went up and saw they were real rocks,

I was appalled. Do you realize how bad someone could get hurt on these rocks? Do you remember? We used to go to, when we lived in Brooklyn, we went to that park all the time. It was like a community movement to get the rocks out of that park before someone banged their head on them. Oh my God. And meanwhile, he's like hanging out with like youth bull riders.

Yeah. So it's funny. Yeah. Interesting. Our tendencies. Andy. Yeah. Interesting. Our tendencies. Andy. Yep. Lay out your meals from the cove.

Well, over the last 15 years. See how this is a very remote facility. You kind of have to get creative as far as what you're bringing in and make sure that you have all your ingredients lined up before you get here if you actually want to do composed meals. So I've kind of laid out some blueprints over the years of how things work up here. So I do a lot of repeats just to make my life easier as far as shopping lists go and um just the ease of the dish you know we have a fairly decent setup here but uh you know pot space and and you know burner space and and oven space is kind of at a, at a limited capacity. So you have to get kind of creative. Um,

but obviously I've got the, the cream of the crop when it comes to seafood access. I kind of joke sometimes about at any given night, there could be $2,000 worth of fresh seafood on the table. Um, that's never even hit the fridge, you know, straight from the filet table, crab and shrimp and halibut and salmon. If you put that to a market octopus, if you put

that to a market value, sometimes it's a little overwhelming to think that we're, we're really living in the spoils here. But yeah, I try to do the crowd pleasers. Fish tacos are always a hit and that's usually a repeat from year to year because everybody kind of knows that and good and uh as the years have gone on the clientele has kind of changed up here you know we've gone from all kind of 30 something adults to now heavy heavy booze and heavy hitting uh hard charging folks to uh everybody's bringing kids up here nowadays so it has been an interesting transformation of

you know make sure that everybody uh enjoys the food but uh that's kind of what i do is make sure that kids are happy when they're eating so uh someone the other day asked because we brought some fish to the neighbors and they said how does he fry his fish oh yeah well that one I kind of joked is uh start by calling catching really small halibut yeah they were so tender we had gotten to a pile of fairly small halibut um and i really think that those fillets i mean they were just so delicate coming off the off the fish and you can see through them almost not that they're so small but the flesh is clear yeah yep and they're actually the right uh thickness that's a big key to frying fish is having the right cut of fish as far as how thick you cut it

because too thick your your outer crust is going to burn a bit before that fish is fully cooked and if you're cutting just if you're just like using little tail pieces you're gonna have a dried up piece of fish before you even get get where you're going. So those were actually the perfect thickness as far as frying goes. My little trick is about two hours before I'm about to fry them, I actually season them. And I actually throw just a spoonful of mayo in with them. And just a little bit, just to kind of barely coat them. There it is um i usually like zest a little lemon zest and season them pretty good right right in with the the raw fish and let

those sit for about two hours but then i don't i i rarely do the batter if i'm doing kind of a baja style taco i'll do a real thin batter with them but this i do actually the um flour egg wash and i make a crumb mixture panko flour i throw a little cornstarch in there to kind of give it that little crispiness and then it's all about seasoning all cooking it comes down to being able to season stuff properly that's why that kind of had that nice but i'm telling you that that was some of the most tender hell but i've ever cooked it knocked our socks off over there yeah the review over at our place was top notch yeah i was i was i was secretly giving myself a little laugh about this one like another favorite of mine that you do and you might be the only one that does it is a green seafood enchilada

yeah and that one just kind of came out of came out of a lot of leftovers you know i tend to cook a little too much from night to night so there's always a little bit of leftover cooked fish hanging out and you've got to kind of get creative with how to use cooked fish and shellfish without overdoing it and that's kind of the perfect uh application for that so i just kind of mixed a bunch of cacalbit salmon crab shrimp mix that all together with um you know sauteed onions and green chilies cilantro and lime and make a little green enchilada sauce and whipped it all together traditionally seafood and cheese aren't kind of paired normally but it works out pretty good doesn't it yeah it's a very rich rich disc

dish because it's got you know it's got the heavy heavy base to it and it's got cheese in it and a little bit of sour cream. Sounds so good. Wrapped in flour tortillas. Sounds amazing. Yeah, we might revisit that one tonight. Made a little too much. Well, then talk about how you assemble it and form it up. Well, I make the mixture and then roll them into, as you would any enchilada, roll them into tortillas.

And then kind of sauce them, cheese them, pop them in the oven, just let them get nice and brown. They're good, man. I was going to say, Brody's son Conley has been talking about those for a year. Since last year. And like the day we got here, he's like, when are you going to make

seafood enchiladas? I think they're even better after the fact. So we've got a couple pans left over and actually just carve out those little squares and then pop them back in the oven real hot and they just get like nice crispy edges on it. Because they're set now, you know, like all that filling has cooled down

and kind of solidified and all gelled together. Cut little squares and crisp them back up. I think they're better on the second date. Sounds awesome. Oh, then every year you do a seafood chowder That's my favorite The chowder and the curry You haven't hit curry yet

Nope We had your curry last year That was amazing We're still talking about that This year Well you guys might get lucky It's coming around week two. We did a chowder a couple nights ago

and that's just kind of a classic chowder. So good. But yeah, when you're working with all the goods around here, put crab and shrimp and I think I had salmon and cod and halibut all mixed in there. What did you put on those scallops last night

that we ate? I want to get to the scallops. I want to talk about the cut. God, that was good. i want to talk about that was good i want to talk about the cut but you can talk about the sauce then i'll talk about the cut yeah that one i man i just whipped up kind of looked around what we had on hand there was some oranges for the kids some of those little cuties or the the the small little oranges and i used some of that juice with some lime juice, a little bit of soy sauce, a little bit of sesame oil, some really fine minced ginger and garlic in there. We were out getting scalps. He started grilling the kids about how many oranges they'd eaten.

Yeah. Well, yeah. Did you guys eat all those oranges? Yeah. Mine was turning. Because you need some sort of acidic. So basically, yeah, Steve was out and and jim were out harvesting oh and kelsey all three of you guys were out harvesting uh some beautiful rock scallops and yeah what are they silver dollar size i mean

they're about some of the actual the actual meat oh yeah Oh yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. Like a really skimpy sausage patty, a really skimpy breakfast sausage patty. Right. A chicken nugget. A big one's about the size of a chicken nugget. Yeah. That's good. Good size. Yeah.

That's about right. But round. But cutting them, you know, super sharp knife. I went out actually to the flight table and I surveyed every knife in the house and found the sharpest one out there. And, um, you go against the grain, like you'd be cutting, um, just coins off the top. Like, so you can just picture putting that thing on a slicer and just cutting paper thin shaves from top to the bottom. And being that thin and using the sauce that I did that has just that slight acidity to it

with the juice of the lime and the orange just gives it enough to start to give it a little cook or a little marinade to where it kind of takes the edge off of that rawness. So you're making like a ceviche type yeah yeah we mess with cooking them i like them raw yeah barely i mean just yeah it's not like where you'd go heavy lime juice where you're actually cooking that fish and lime just enough to kind of and man they pick up flavor really quick because i literally cut them put them on on that plate with the sauce, and instantly they picked up that flavor. I mean, the soy sauce and sesame oil is very strong,

so it picks that up pretty quick. But just paper thin, and man, they're good. They're just so delicious. We had a friend up here who was not aware of when you see a scallop, what you're seeing. I was surprised yeah she's she's had been always seen scallops in restaurants or whatever but never realized what it was that you're looking at yeah uh we don't eat mussels and clams because of paralytic shellfish poisoning there's no testing on our beaches for paralytic shellfish poisoning so it's a little bit

of a gamble um but i'm not making advice to listeners but i'm just saying how we've come to a decision that we have is that uh uh an acquaintance of mine who's a doctor he's done a lot of research on this and just no case for the adductor muscle which is what i'm going to get to what you're eating on a scallop when you get scallops is the adductor muscle everything in the scallop is edible but we eat the adductor muscle because there's no known cases where adductor muscles from scallops have ever transmitted psp and people know the term bivalve it's like it's got two shells like a clam like a clam shell it's the muscle is just attached to each shell it's just what holds the

shells together it's got a hinge apparatus this weird crazy purple thing that functions as a hinge and then that muscle is stuck to the center of each shell so when you clean it you're just getting in there and scraping the muscle free from each side and it's just that little deal and he's talking about laying that little muscle down like how it would be if it was in its shell you're laying it down and just cutting like like i said cutting coins from top to bottom and that made a big difference because the thing that you used to before you started getting into that it's just mealier than a bay scallop oh yeah it's grainier and then i would cut them the other way so i'd lay it down and cut slices off it with the grain and that was good but not nearly as good as that cross grain yeah

it'd be like cutting a piece of meat kind of the wrong way with the grain and you get that long chew to it kind of the same same. Oh, they're good. Jimmy, what's your favorite thing that you've eaten this week? The halibut, by far. Fried halibut. It was amazing. What was that sauce that you made with that? That white sauce?

Oh, it was just kind of a... Tartar sauce type? Yeah, shack tartar sauce. Oh, you know whatever was in the fridge it went over to the neighbors oh because i heard people talking about what happened to it yeah we ate it on everything yeah no that was just a is just a kind of running we took that sauce and had on breakfast burritos we were putting on cheeseburgers. It was good.

You know, we're not shacks up. We'll take whatever we can get over there. So, James, to close things out, what is your favorite activity that you engage in in these parts? What do you like the most? I have two main ones. Move your mic, like I said.

No? Two fingers. What do you feel like doing to dad right now? Swift one. Okay, go on. See how much better you sound now? Yeah. Two things I can't really decide between either

uh diving for scallops and just looking at little shrimp and rock crabs and how everything kind of lives underwater where you when you're fishing out here you really don't know what's beneath you or what's happening that's kind of the mystery of it and that's what makes it fun. That, diving here in Alaska. I know we're not. I can't speak. So that's one of the things you like. And then fishing lingcod.

You like fishing lingcod. Yeah. And pulling up gigantic halibut. Yeah. Jimmy caught a real nice one. Yeah, Jimmy got a big one. That was fun to watch. Yo, Jimmy got a giant. It was cute the other night when it was the first or second night we were here, and Matt whispered to me. He's like, I want to go around the table,

and everyone has to say what they like the most about Alaska. Aw. Oh, that's cool. And it wasn't fishing specific or activity specific, but you had a really nice answer, Jimmy. Do you remember what you said um like the family that you build up here is kind of like there's like you get to know everybody so much better and get to like be close with people and kind of get to like share an

experience you don't really get to share with people like more up here and you get to like really learn about everybody and i just think it's cool that you get to share with people like more up here and you get to like really learn about everybody. And I just think it's cool that you get to spend that time with people and not have to worry about anything. Definitely. That's a great answer. What I shared when I went around the table

is that in John McPhee's, listen, hear me out. Yeah. In John McPhee's Pulitzer prize winning annals of the former world his pulitzer prize winning work on american geology um there's a couple nuggets in there i'm gonna get to the main nugget but i want to share a couple nuggets in there one at one point in that book he says if i was going to sum this book up in one sentence it would be that the top of mount

everest is marine limestone um he also points out that if you imagine the world's history as being a timeline stretching from the tip of your finger to the other tip of your finger with your arms spread out, you would remove human history with one stroke of a nail file. And he also says that, he explains how in 80 million years, Japan will have accreted all of the Aleutian Islands into one big landmass, and that landmass will dock up against Alaska.

And what's cool about that is that Alaska formed the same way. It was accreted archipelagos that formed in a big glob of like just islands accumulating together and it docked up against california and that's what caused the gold that became the california gold rush in the sierra because that stuff like all that stuff that went under the plate you know bubbled up like that out there but then this big blob that's alaska shot up against the california coast and then rode and is riding a transform fault and so far it's ridden north to where it is now think about that it's pretty wild

and that's what you're most thankful about the cabin that was that was that was before that octopus now the thing i'm most thankful of is that i might catch him tonight. Round two. Yep. All right, guys. We're going to wrap it up. Yeah. It's high tide right now.

Actually, I think it's on the fall. Thanks for joining, Jimmy. Yep. You got in a lot of trouble this week, but you did a great job. What am I getting in trouble for? It's, you know, losing pliers. Losing my pliers. We can all say that.

Jimmy's, losing a lot of spinners. He's in a weird, he's in a weird stage between being a kid and being an adult. He's 13 and you're expected

to now go, you know, your little brother and sister get to run around and just be little maniacs all day and you're expected

to help in a different way and I'm sure that's a hard transition but a necessary one. And if your little brother lost my spinner I wouldn't even have a question for him. Yeah I know. But you get a lot of questions. You're becoming a man of the sea. It doesn't

You're learning a lot of stuff though and pretty soon you'll be taking the skiff out by yourself or with buddies that is so scary to think about I almost killed me and everyone on the boat you did a good job yesterday when dad jumped over to Brody's boat

you didn't talk about that that's too embarrassing you thought for Brody you also were like it's a fish it was the anchor oh i heard about it andy was telling us about why did you have to bring this up to take so long explain what happened okay we had two skiffs monkeyed together i very strong current so strong the buoy is like throwing ripples like a rock

in the middle of a river right yeah it was a ripping a big incoming tide yeah anchored a boat monkeyed another boat off that by tying it off behind that okay then on the same ridge line anchored another boat three boats two anchors brody's fishing out of the boat that's tied off on my boat which is anchored in place he's jigging and your jig is way out yonder because it's 280 feet of water so by the time you know you're jigging at an angle yeah he feels as though he's snagged something but here's the deal andy's boat and the current is putting so much pressure on his anchor that when brody's lifting up with his rod and it's like 80 pound braid he's lifting up with his rod and it's lifting the anchor out of its bed he's anchored on my anchor so he's not moving but when he lifts up

yeah because he's taking he's hooked an admiralty anchor and is pulling it out the other direction which is causing that skiff to just a little bit move down and when it's going and i'm like you've got to be snagged on something and i eventually climb into his boat and grab that rod. And I'm like, I don't know what's down there, but it's alive. Because you'd be holding dead still. Like, you're not moving. That thing's going. And with the same motion as a halibut. Like a head shake.

Yeah. Then I'm like, you got to be on a fish that's under something. Like, he wrapped on something. Like, he's wrapped on a rock. I don't know what and that's what it feels like but eventually it's like not this is way off in some other direction and i said let's pull that anchor and find out what's going on it was on the anchor meanwhile you're in charge of the boat and jimmy was doing an excellent job driving the boat he wanted to

get into the mix except for the the time where I almost killed it. No, you didn't. The boats were getting too close and you reversed it and you did a good job. You did a great job. Yeah, you wanted to get in on the fight. Yeah, it's good. Good job, Jim Jam. You can't watch that kind of stuff go down way over

far away. Well, you were screaming it's a giant fish. It's a giant fish. I said whatever it is, I said whatever it is, it's alive. He had a stingray theory.

Well, now and then we'll hook something and you can't get it up and eventually you get it up and it sees huge rays. I've seen that. Right here on this chart. Those are good to eat. I saw that once. Number I'm just looking at that hook next to your face that doesn't feel like it's a circle hook that can't get you um all right everybody thanks for joining see you next time later Ride on, ride on, let it run

I wanna see your gray hair shine like silver in the sun Ride on, ride on, my love Ride on, sweetheart on, ride on Sweetheart, we're done beat this damn horse to death So take your new one and ride on We're done beat this damn horse to death So take your new one and ride on Hey folks, exciting

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