The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 48: Prince of Wales Island, Alaska. Steven Rinella talks with guests Mark Boardman from Vortex Optics, Ryan Callaghan from First Lite, along with Rick Smith, Garret Smith, and Janis Putelis from the MeatEater crew.

Episode Date: November 11, 2016

Subjects discussed: Mark's Sitka blacktail deer hunt; policy on checking in with loved ones when on the road; diving for sea cucumbers; water weenies; paralytic shellfish poisoning; eel skin wallets; blacktail liver; sea cucumber tasting notes; MeatEater on Netflix; grotesquerie as a selective advantage; smelly suspenders; and more.  Connect with Steve and MeatEaterSteve on Instagram and TwitterMeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeShop MeatEater Merch Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet. This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless severely bug bitten and in my case underwearless meat eater podcast you can't predict anything

this is going to be an extremely fast short not fast because it'll pass. Time will pass in the same way it always does, but its duration will be shorter. This is a short podcast episode, digital radio program. First thing is a quick bit of business. Yanni, you were there. I want to follow up, because we had a recent episode where we were talking about, at length, about lead shot, non-toxic shot, and the ban on using lead for waterfowl hunting all those years ago. Right?

Yes. And what precipitated that conversation. Am I using that right? Rick? I don't know what initiated that conversation was uh that i had ran into a down in kansas who explained to me that he was an engineer spent his whole life in munitions and was telling me that lead contamination in ducks is a crock of shit. Wasn't buying it. Wasn't at all buying it.

And as a way of getting into this subject, he said to me, how many times have you opened up a duck's gizzard and found a piece of shot? The thinking being that ducks need scratch or grit, right, because they have a gizzard. Everything that has a gizzard eats little bits of rock and it pulverizes their food inside their gizzard. The rock eventually

crumbles away, erodes away in their gizzard and they just pass it like whatever. When you see birds picking on the side of the road, they're picking up scratch or grit. He was saying, how many times have you actually opened a duck's gizzard and found a piece of shot? I was like, that's a hell of a good point. Now, what happened to me the other day, Giannis?

You opened a gizzard. We found a piece of shot. Yeah. And I said, and I put this thing up on social media, which I cannot stand for the most part. I like it, but like the odd, you know what I mean? You put something up and nine dudes are like, huh? Right? And they just go on with whatever they got going on that day.

Yeah, they go, that's interesting. I learned something. And there's some dude that just like all of a sudden has an ax to grind. Yeah. And he's like, oh, yeah, them lefties. I'm like, no, hold it. All I'm saying is I found a piece of lead shot and it gives it. It was offensive to him that I would have told the truth of what I saw.

Did we check to see was it lead versus steel? It was. Yeah. It was malleable. So I don't know what to tell you. I mean. And someone brought up to make, they said, make sure that it wasn't shot in there. As in like you shot the dust.

Yeah. But look, when I saw the gizzard, it was perfectly fine. We would have seen a hole if it had been shot in there as in like, you shot the duck. Yeah. But look, when I saw the gizzard, it was perfectly fine. You know, we would have seen a hole if it had been shot in there. Plus, I mean, imagine that it gets shot in such a way

that the lead passes through the thick, muscular wall of the gizzard. A gizzard is like a rocket. Passes through the gizzard lining and then somehow stops in the actual pocket along with a bunch of gravel. I tell you why more people aren't finding shot inside their gizzards.

Because they don't eat their gizzards. That's right. One in a million shot. That's a good point. That was Mark Boardman, ladies and gentlemen. Mark, do you want to introduce yourself? I'm Mark Boardman with Vortex Optics. And I want to compliment Steve on his one in a million shot doc on getting that pellet inside the gizzard.

And then to, as though dealing cards, then there's Dirt Myth. Howdy, folks. Who got terribly lost in the coastal rainforest this morning, or so we thought. Thick wrong, we thought. Thick fog. Wrongly thought. Turned out he was not lost and was just documenting with his camera the taking and dismembering of a sick black-tailed buck by one Mark...

What's your middle name? Robert. One Mark R. Boardman. Correct. Eagle Eye in the fog. Spotted a deer in the intense fog. It was a little soupy out there. Very soupy.

Classic blacktail habitat. Wet, foggy, brushy. Sneaky little bucks. They are sneaky. Five days. Mark spent five days looking for buck. Right? Six. Six. Including today.

That's on all day. Virtually all day. Virtually all day every day. Then the Latvian Eagle. Howdy. Rick. Hey there. I put out a call for ladies for Rick

and he picked up a couple Instagram followers he was saying after that, which was good, but then he said most of them happened to be guys. So again, it's a call for ladies for Rick. You're still available, Rick?

Yeah. You ain't going out any movement there? I mean a little. available, Rick? Yeah. Anything going on? Any movement there? I mean, a little. A little movement? Yeah. Another single guy. Not on from Rick. Not terribly fired up about finding a lady is Cal.

Ryan Callen. Ryan's proud. Other priorities. Yeah. Here's Ryan. If you're a lady listening and you want to move into a recently remodeled condo in the posh ski town of Ketchum, Idaho and be Cal's lady, you need to understand that Cal will not, refuses to do what he calls checking in.

He does not like- It's been an issue. He does not like checking in. He will let you know when there's something you need to know. Until then, you may not hear from him. If that is suitable to you, Ryan Callahan, catch him. Anything else you want to say about what you're looking

for in particular with a lady? Even though you're not really looking. I don't think there's any coming back from that intro, so we'll'll just he doesn't like to check in he doesn't like to he just kind of wants to go about his business and sort of mosey around the uh country at will yeah especially during hunting season and not have to hear about it yeah now this isn't saying that, you know, if this gal wants to do that with me, that's great. But if she does not, we can just establish ahead of time

where I will be and that'll be that. It's for her benefit. You don't want to worry her. Yeah. Expecting a check-in. She just knows you're good. Yeah.

Unless you check in. Yeah, how does your lady deal with that, Steve, checking in? Do you check in more? I travel so much, and it's been for so long, and that was kind of the circumstances under which we met. So we have certain coping mechanisms that we do. I do not do a rigorous check-in. My wife seldom takes my calls when I'm on the road.

I know that if the problem arises, I'll get worried about it. We do a lot of very short text messages when we get the chance. But if I go four or five days, it would be smart of me to check in. And I know that she probably won't accept the call because she's probably a little bit annoyed at me. But I'll know that it's cool. And one of the things she says is she says to me, because I used to come home, right? And I wanted everybody to be a party and balloons.

And my wife says, if it's not a big deal when you go away, and I don't like it to be a big deal when I go away, I just get up and out the door. She says, if it's not a big deal when you go away, it cannot be a big deal when you come home. Meaning, when you walk in the door, your ass is on. Yep, kiddos. It doesn't matter what happened.

When the baby gives his morning like, hello, from his little crib there, you're running down the hall. And it's not like, oh, I'm going to sleep in. My wife said, if you want to rest, you need to just tell me you're not home and go to a hotel. Because when you walk in the door, man, it's like you're making up for lost time yeah mark what's your impression of a sea cucumber now that you're a cq now that you're a c cucumber man yeah i'm an old c cucumber vet um they are one of the most wild looking creatures i've ever laid eyes on how would you describe it?

Could you describe it without referring to a male member, a diseased male member? Absolutely not. Yeah, that's really difficult. Yeah. I guess if you severed off a chunk of someone's forearm and it was diseased. Those spiny things are so unique.

They don't look like anything. I don't know what kind of diseases you're used to looking at, but boy. I mean, cartoonish diseases. Yeah, what it looks like is it looks like a you know, like if you were watching a movie like an animated movie and they go and discover life on another planet.

You know, because underwater, you know, it's drab. It's like a coral reef up here. It's a lot of rock because underwater up you know it's drab you're not it's like a coral reef up here it's a lot of rock you know you go underwater it's like a lot of drab colorations right but then here's these red i mean a sea cucumber a doozy's a whopper coming out of the water is what 12 13 inches long maybe a little bigger than that. I'd say our average is right around the foot long mark, but probably 8 to 14 inches. Once they get alarmed, they puff

up about as big around as your wrist, forearm or so. They have many, many spikes on them. They're red, orangish red. I feel like if you didn't grow up in the Northwest or in, I don't know, the coast, sea cucumber is like, doesn't, I don't know.

Somebody from the Midwest ever seen a sea cucumber? I don't even, I don't remember because I'm from the Midwest. I don't remember how I conceptualized sea cucumbers. I mean, if I would have encountered them in a, like when we take our kids to the aquarium they have a petting part right there's like a petting zoo

at the aquarium basically and sea cucumbers are one of the things kids are allowed to after they wash their hands they're allowed to reach in and kind of like monkey with the sea cucumbers which when I took my boy out Callahan was here the second time I took my boy out, Callahan was here, the second time I took my boy out harvesting sea cucumbers,

and like you could put a harpoon into a whale and it's not going to bother that kid. But he does not like you messing with sea cucumbers. We couldn't really figure out. My theory is it was more a dad's going underneath the water. You think so? I think so. But he couldn't figure out how to articulate that.

He didn't like the whole process. Yes. Yeah, it was a lot of, you know, dad disappears. He's stuck on a boat with a dude with a mustache. It was that day too. It was wavy as shit too. It was a big day.

It was. How would you call it? What was the topic of discussion? Oh, jimmy was fishing out of the gate which everything was cool but then we lost the lure and the seas were too big like it was one of those days that you had to keep keep the bow pointed oh yeah waves are coming over the ass end of the boat you know and he's like we'll tie on another lure i'm like yep trying to get and every time i'd get ass end of the boat, you know. And he's like, well, tie on another lure. I'm like, yep, trying to get. And every time I'd get up, you know, the boat would drift. And he's like, oh, I'm scared.

I'm like, nope, nothing to be scared about. Okay, then tie on a lure. And then it was snacks, you know. So it was very simple kid stuff that I was like, yeah. But we hauled up. Yeah, so sea cucumbers, when you open a sea cucumber up, remember those things, water weenies? Yeah.

Yeah, it's like a water weenie with warty thorns on it. You open them up, you stick a tube, right? And you put your flay knife blade in and roll the tube out. If you had a sock laying there and you put a blade of the sock into the hole that your foot goes into and then poked it out the toe part and just opened that sock up like that, I want to say you're slicing it laterally, maybe. Long-wise, yeah.

Then it rolls out flat then. It's like, you know what? Imagine you cut a tube of, you take a toilet paper tube, right, and put your knife in one end and open that toilet paper tube up and you lay it out flat. But instead of rolling it out flat

and just seeing the inside of the toilet paper tube, what you see is five strands of muscle that are about like carpenter's pencils. After you get all the guts out of the way. Yeah, he's got like an intestine in there which just falls away. It's not connected to anything. In fact, when a sea cucumber panics, he can extrude his gut.

He can shoot all that out. We had a problem the first time when we took my boy out harvesting sea cucumbers we were putting them in a perforated bucket and a lot of the sea cucumbers extrude their gut so a lot of it was coming through the perforated bucket holes and I think he found that a little bit alarming

you open it up and there's five strands of muscles that seem about like carpenters pencils and you take a putty knife and you take the putty knife and just scrape away the five muscles and they're joined together. And at that point, you have a hunk of meat that's about like if you, your three middle fingers, right? It kind of puckers up, shrinks down. You have about three, your three middle fingers, right? It kind of puckers up, shrinks down. You have about your three middle fingers worth of meat. Cut those son's bitches into five strips.

And it tastes like... To me, I think it's definitely more... It's not as rigid or rubbery as clams. That's right. It has a clam taste. I think it's somewhere between clam and scallop. I don't really... I'm not falling in on the squid thing.

I think calamari. No? Yeah, not for me. Not getting it? Not feeling calamari? But I think a calamari is sort of in line with sea cucumber because calamari is kind of like a blank slate. Mm-hmm.

You know? You got to bring something to it almost. Yeah. I'd agree. You know? with sea cucumber because calamari is kind of like a blank slate you know like it's kind of you got to like bring something to it almost yeah yeah i'd agree you know i mean those ones that we had fried without any batter on i call them baldies baldies yeah okay uh they they had a flavor more than most calamari that i would yeah like Yeah, like kind of a sweet taste to them. Dude, they're so good, man. So good. Really tasty.

You know how animals adapt, like blacktails, right? They have, obviously, there's some selective advantage in blending in, right? Like they have a color palette that is perfect. Oh, for sure. Yeah. For their environment. I think that someone who studies such things should look into grotesquerie as a selective advantage.

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onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX x club y'all look so they don't look appealing it just he it's like you look at it and there's something deep in you and maybe other creatures feel the same way you look at you're like yeah like nothing good could possibly come of molesting this thing. No way. Messing with it. Who was the first dude to be like, eh, try this out. Yeah.

Figure out how to peel it. Because it's not straightforward like you explained on the heart, like the processing of that. Once you see those muscles, you're like, oh, yeah, this is the edible part. But the rest of it looks like. Oh, the muscles. Yeah. If you just looked at a bowl of the muscles,

you'd think that someone had been shucking clams. Yeah. But see, the deal up here in South, where we are, now, where I live full-time, I live full-time in Seattle. And where we are in Seattle, they do Red Tide. They test for Red Tide, which is paralytic. Red Tide will give you paralytic shellfish poisoning. And it's a dinoflagellate, right?

It's a dinoflagellate that you can, that concentrates in the digestive tract and in the muscle of certain bivalve species. And when you eat those, you get all sick and die or get real sick. Every year someone gets, every year someone somewhere on the Pacific coast is dying of paralytic shellfish poisoning. Now down there, you have enough population where they test all the beaches all the time. So when razor clams are open or manila clams, whatever you're going after, you can look up on a, go to a website and see if there's paralytic shellfish poisoning present at the time. And they're constantly monitoring it because it can't kill you. The first thing that happens is your lips get numb.

Here, because there's no population centers here, and monitoring would be impossible because it's just like everything is, there's many, many shellfish beaches everywhere. They don't test for paralytic shellfish poisoning, so you're kind of on your own. Now, while the native Alaskans obviously ate enormous quantities of shellfish, I don't know how they dealt with that risk.

There are middens here in this cove. Shellfish middens that are 10, 12 feet high that when you dig into them it's just shellfish shells from the people eating them. I don't know what they did if it was just a calculated risk or whatever.

They had a taster, like a young gentleman that was chosen to be the taster. See how he did? You talk to old-timers here, and they'll talk about rubbing it on their lips and then waiting a while to see if it gets tingly. What we've done is just eat one. Everyone eats one.

And then 24 hours later, we'll eat more, which is risky because they used to say don't eat shellfish in any month that does not have an R in it. Because paralytic shellfish poisoning is more prevalent in your summer months. So May, June, July, August, steer clear of shellfish. But I remember a couple years ago, I was reading the catch can newspaper guy died of paralytic shellfish poisoning in April. And that damn sure has an R in it. Is that new? I'm bringing all this up is because you don't got to worry about with sea cucumbers. So even here, you can sink a canoe with, were you there with us, Yanni, that one time we were getting butters?

Oh, yeah. You could honestly, I mean, back me up. You could sink your canoe with clams. Oh, yeah. You find the right bed and you could, with a spade, just shovel them. No, you're just shoveling clams into the thing. I mean, you could sink a boat with them. But it's so risky. It's like such a,. It used to pain me that you'd come up here,

and then here's this incredible resource that you're scared shitless to utilize. But with sea cucumbers, once you put a wetsuit on, the water's cold. You've got to have a 5-mil wetsuit. Once you put a wetsuit on, you can put up more pounds of cucumbers than you can clams any day as far as just actual usable meat but to me you can see the connection of somebody sees water shooting out of the beach digs up a clam opens the shell up and sees like a big nugget of meat right there yeah i cannot imagine how it came about that somebody grabs this sea cucumber and you have got the folks listening you have got to do a search on this whatever your preferred means is because

you gotta you gotta see the picture here to understand this yeah it'd really be a good idea to go look up if you're listening yeah go look up uh what a sea cucumber looks like if you're not familiar and you're not going to make the connection between that and food I mean I sure don't whoever that guy was I'm pretty sure he was in a tough spot had to be right could have been a connoisseur man

I don't know the next thing that we got to eat and I saw a lot down there while we were swimming around is urchins see that's interesting because I have in sushi places I have, but I thought you were looking for roe. And I wasn't familiar with what I was looking for. I didn't know you were just eating the gonad of the urchin.

Yeah, I'm almost positive that it's just the gonads. Yeah, because there's no, the same as sea cucumbers, there's no closed season for recreational divers. Like here you're allowed five rock scallops. You're allowed more weather veins, but just five scallops. And I don't know if it's this. No bag limit on urchins and no bag limits on sea cucumbers because they're not utilized. Yeah, I don't know if it's the right species that is preferred.

No, I'm going to find out. Yeah. I'm going to find out. And then you just pop them off with a knife and you'd be. How big were those urchins? There's some monsters. Look at it right out the window there. See that yellow hook? Oh, you can't see it. There's some monsters. Look at it right out the window there. See that yellow hook?

You can't see it. You get an idea. Well, there was a few. Most of them were like six to eight inches across. Yeah, so the top half of a baby's head. They're like big, you know. Interesting reference. Just trying to paint a vision.

But then there were some monsters. They looked like little cactuses, like smaller spines, much bigger. I don't know. You can eat this outside of a sea cucumber though, right? Yeah, people do. They dry it down and then reconstitute it. But it seems that's like in the Asian markets.

Aphrodisiac or something. Yeah, I don't know enough about it. I don't know if it's kind of like shark fin where it's not so much that it's not like, oh, the shark fin's good, but you're sort of chasing after some kind of quality, what we would call some kind of mystic quality.

It is like a leather. Yeah. Heavy, heavy rind. But, I mean, closer to leather. I think we could make waltz out of Yeah. But, I mean, closer to leather. I think we could make waltz out of it. Yeah, you could do a good wallet.

I think you could. Dirt Myth, didn't your dad make a wallet out of a beaver tail? Yeah. I still have that beaver tail from Wyoming. You're going to do a wallet out of it.

Yeah, I'm going to follow in his footsteps. Or like a whole big purse. Yeah. Man purse. Oh, man purse. Have I told you, did I ever tell you guys

a story about the guy I know that had an eel skin wallet? Yeah. I told that? Did I tell it on this here radio program? You sure? Because that's how I feel about the beaver tail.

This guy went to Hawaii and got an eel skin wallet. And that eel skin wallet served him well for seven years. Went back to Hawaii. Calculated out how many more seven-year blocks he was likely to be alive and purchased that many wallets. He was so committed to that style of wallet, which I'm about to do with the Magpul

wallet. You guys seen this thing? I kept one of the sea cucumber skins to do that. Did you keep it? I kept it. Did you salt it? I do like that. I neglected it in the next day. I'm always looking for the little small walls. Yeah, it was pretty rough.

It was all gooed out, yeah. Yeah. So I stuck it under the bed. I'm going to take a photo of that. Now, what do you think about over there, Yanni? Yanni's got the Labian smirk rocking bad. A bad Labian smirk. Is it about the cukes?

No, not at all. Sea urchin, though, is another thing that when you first look at it, it would be hard to picture how someone could say, yeah, let's cut that thing open. Yeah, especially if you ever stepped on one or sat on one or anything. I remember my late friend Eric Kern, whose picture's hanging on the wall above the stove there. We were down in Mexico, and he hooked a shark on his fly rod,

and the shark snapped him off. And he was kind of like perched precariously on a rock out in the water. And when the shark snapped the line, it threw him off balance, and he fell and went to catch himself and impaled. It bothered him. It bothered him. His hand ached for a year. Oh, yeah.

Went right onto that urchin. And he tried, you know, you're supposed to like piss on it and everything, but his hand, the nerves in his hand weren't right for a year. Did he have barbs? You could just see them. You could look into his hand and see the black spikes in his hand. They eventually just dissolved inside his hand. Ooh.

Yeah, hurting. The cucumbers, they live from what's called the intertidal zone, So a low, low tidal exposed sea cucumbers down to 800 feet. What happens when they're exposed? They always stay in the water. I've never seen them like out, out. But they'll be like where you could grab them in a pair of extra tops and walk out and pick them up. So we dive them by free diving. I never dive any deep.

How deep? What's the deepest we went, Rick? Eight, nine feet? Yeah. I can't go very far. We went eight, nine feet. You got to clear one time. We're at a depth you need to clear once on your way down.

I was pretty impressed. You got that first haul. I mean, you were down for what I thought a bit, and you came up with a sack full. Yeah, I'm good for one good breath hold, and then it gets worse and worse and worse. Really? A lot of guys are really good at controlling their breathing,

but they have a whole little thing. There's a thing you're supposed to do at the surface. Hyperventilate more. If you're good at it, yeah, you get a wrist watch out, and you do a paced breathing, and there's this whole thing. I just kind of go like, and I feel like I'm good, and then I dive. and there's this whole thing i just kind of go like and i feel like i'm good in that dive but there's a science to it that you know like if i'm with people that don't dive they always be like man you can hold your breath a long time but i'm telling you for people

to do it it's a frank it's i'm down for 25 of what people go down for oh i mean yeah i know some folks you go down they go down to like 60 meters. Dang, free diving. Free diving. Cruise around. They're down there, I mean, holding their breath for like four minutes. I was down for like 30 seconds being like,

okay, I got to go. How long does it take to get down to 60 meters? They go down really fast with big, long fins, and they just control their body and just drop. It's insane. Yeah, you like those divers in the Bahamas and stuff that don't use weight belts, but they used to just have a boat full of rocks, big boulders.

And when you go in, you just grab one of the boulders out of the boat and bombs away holding that boulder in your arms, hit the bottom, Drop the boulder. Do whatever you got to do it and go back up. So you can get down in a hurry. But you got to be able to clear fast. Because you're sinking. Yeah.

But the point being, if you're free diving, like the cucumbers have such a range. If you're free diving, I don't think you can really over-exploit the resource recreationally. There is a commercial harvest up here in the winter for sea cucumbers, which is what initially got me intrigued on it. What's the ratio you think, rough guess, volume out of the water to edible meat? Percent body weight?

Yeah. Low? Yeah, because they'd look big before you started. Well, they swell up and they retain all that water. Yeah, that's the thing. It's actually probably pretty high

if they weren't full of the water. I bet you it's 25% once you cut them and the water drains out. I don't know, man. That skin is stout. Because, yeah, like you said, Dirt Meth wanted to make wallet out of it. Yeah.

Next time. Moving on to blacktail bucks. Mark, what do you think about all that? They're cool deer, man. But see, you grew up hunting blacktails. Yep. Was that the first deer you ever killed? Yeah, absolutely.

You were born in Washington State. Born in Washington on the west side of the state. So, yeah, I grew up hunting blacktails with my dad, grandpa, and brother. We'd hunt the west side of the state. And in those days, logging was up and running. You guys were hunting clear cuts, right? Yeah, we'd hunt a lot of gated logging road systems. Like how does that work?

Like timber companies own it? Yeah, so different timber companies. And most of the areas we liked to hunt were gated. So it would kind of keep... Closed to vehicles. Closed to vehicles, yeah. Gotcha. So we'd take our mountain bikes in.

Oh. And threw us up. So you'd get way in. Get farther in than a dude walking. You could get further, faster, quieter. We rode up on deer before. Like, I think they don't recognize that quiet little hiss of a tire versus, you know, like walking, you know, on generally pretty gravelly road, a little bit noisy, you know. And yeah, so we'd watch a lot of clear cuts in the mornings and in the evenings um find little cat roads little alder

bottoms little sneak spots to still hunt through so what'd you do in the midday just wait like nothing you can do you could maybe try push somewhere you know find a little thicket where you think there might be a buck bedded up and put some people on the other side you know but and and it all worked you know i mean i'm not i shot you know not a ton of them but i'm not sure i shot too many of them the same way twice yeah so if you're doing that when you're hunting like the cuts like that could you expect to see deer every day no so it wasn't like now now when you're hunting whitetails in wisconsin we're like you're probably gonna see a deer yeah yeah i mean if you saw if you saw a deer in a day even if it was a doe you're like cool good day really you know and a lot of the cuts that we like though

weren't like super fresh you know you wanted one that was fairly grown up you know maybe three to three to six maybe eight years old where you've got kind of those um just those smaller you know immature fir trees and just more browse has come at that point i think the deer feel more secure they can still kind of hide but they can still hide but there's lots of good feed because the sunlight's getting in there. Yeah. I can't imagine it takes eight years of growth for these things to hide. I mean, my God, they're small. I think that would be on the top end when you'd be probably kind of getting done. Once those trees get 10 years old, they're pretty big.

The clear cuts here are all grown up now. They're starting out making a new one not far from here. But the clear cuts here, everybody talks about, I feel like they're saying that it was, they get good at seven or eight years. Okay. Yep. Good hunting.

Yeah. It takes a while, right? It takes a while. And then they're good for almost a decade. And then they're good for almost a decade and then they're too then they're overgrown and my timeline but i mean it's probably oh but here's the thing it's probably like you know it's probably regionally variable because here it's like you know hell a lot more rain but much colder so it could just be a different situation do they replant the clear cuts up here no i don't believe so i could be wrong on all situation. Do they replant the clear cuts up here?

No, I don't believe so. I could be wrong on all this. And I almost want to back up and say that I'm taking things that a bunch of different guys that I know up here have told me that probably there's some contradiction within there, but there's sort of like a window, right? They take a while to get good, and they're good, and they cease to be good. Not that they cease to be good habitat. It's just they cease to be good hunting because once it's six feet high, you just can't see.

You can't see through it, and it's tough to walk through it. Yeah. Oh, the boat's here? Yep. The boat's coming. Can you guys do one load, and then we'll— I just want to lighten up.'ll thanks i got a question real quick are the black tail in washington and you do they blend in as well as these like you said the only

thing you see out here is like a flash of white there's a little bit of patch that they have on i mean i'd say yeah i mean they're very similar as far as the way they look you know these deer these sitka black tails are you know smaller, smaller statured, you know. Than your guys' Columbia blacktails. Than the Columbia blacktails, which probably makes them even harder to find because they're smaller. You know, they get buried in the brush even easier. But, I mean, pretty, a lot of similarities, but definitely some differences as far as just the way the country is out here a little bit like you don't at least where we're at i mean you don't have those you know logging roads where you

can kind of snake your way through and get on top and you know really cover some ground quick you know like we'd pick more what we were doing here was like more of like an all-day hunt you know where there would be like okay i'm gonna ride I'm going to watch this clear cut for this long. Then I'm going to go over here and I'll go sneak this little, you're kind of doing kind of different hunts throughout the day, I guess. Yeah. Not just going to work in some area with a lot of bushwhacking and moving in toward little spots.

Yep. Here's a little factoid. We went, me and Mark, Mark and I, me and Mark. That's how I want to say it. Went to the. No. It's not what it is. You wouldn't say me went to a. No, I think it's me. That's how I want to say it. Went to the... No. That's not what it is. You wouldn't say me went to a...

No, I think it's me. No, you're wrong. Mark and I. All right. I went to a... Mark and I went to a... Oh, yeah. There's a...

You don't agree? There's a great Lexington Valley. No, this is like a... This is not a... No, you can mess up the order. Hey, folks. This is exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. And boy, my goodness do we hear from the Canadians whenever we do a raffle or a sweepstakes.

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onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. onxmaps.com slash meet. Welcome to the OnX Club, y'all. You can mess up the order. I'm terrible at grammar. No, I rely on you for grammar questions. No, I'm terrible.

I have no idea. I just listen to a few podcasts I like and I don't remember them but I like listening to them. About grammar. And words. Then you can answer any question. We went to rival high schools.

We did. This is what you've been leading up to talk about? Yeah, that's what... In Washington. So the mark and I was to set up that you guys went to rival high schools. That was your anecdote. Yep. Anything else?

Did you know that Rick was the high school mascot? Wolverines. I did. I wore the outfit. I learned that. You dressed up as a... Yeah, it was a Wolverine. It was a full amazing outfit with a big head.

Super hot. You'd always get out of it super sweaty. But nobody knew that it was me. What? How do you pull that off? One of your buddies probably eventually was like, did you ever notice? You're never like with Rick when that Wolverine is out there.

That's exactly right. Like Rick's like, I got to go get a hot dog. And then all of a sudden, moment's like there's a Wolverine dancing around. Wolverine runs back inside. And all of a sudden, Rick's like back on the hot dog. Sweaty though. Yeah. So at football games against Newport, I was probably wearing the freaking Wolverine outfit.

So you've seen him before. I probably have. Well, I didn't know, you know, because he had. He was scary. The costume. Yeah, I was running. What was Newport? What was your guys' mascot?

We were the Knights. Oh, no way. All right. We were the Rockets. But because Rick and I went to rival high schools, it's been really difficult for me to get along with him all week. I carry that with me to this day. Just keep falling back on old defeats and victories.

I still wear my Letterman's jacket. Yeah. I mean, this is really fascinating. Giannis, what do you think about odor? I used to always be the life of the party because I could juggle. Rick over here, he's quite the performer. I can only do three items. Rick over here can juggle flaming sticks five at a time.

And the Wolverine. Knives. I rode the unicycle with the Wolverine outfit on. I want to get back to ladies. Think about that. That doesn't help. Let me lay out an evening with Rick. Maybe listen to a podcast about

linguistics. Just perfect. Snuggle up. Let's do a little linguistics. Learn a couple of things that Rick will probably forget. Yeah. While meal cooked by Rick. Rick cook you up some sea cucumbers. I have been doing that. He's bringing home. Yeah.

Rick's then gonna he might put a costume on. I think they had a term for that. He might put a suit on. And then, who knows what's next? Cook you up some sea cucumber? I picked up another tidbit about Rick's personal life.

Do you see how much the fog lifted out there all of a sudden? It's beautiful. Rick is intrigued by the idea of co-home ownership. I don't understand what that means. I'm not into really buying a home. In my mind, I never imagined buying a home as a single dude. No, I have a hard time picturing that as well.

I know a lot of guys that have done it. That's just not on the radar, but it probably will become more on the radar as I get more grown up. So you'd like to meet a woman and pitch in for a house? I mean, yeah. That's kind of what married people do. Yeah, it's like a...

The right woman, obviously. Yeah, but you bought cars. You bought a camera. That's true. That's true. You didn't wait for the right one to come along. No, no, no. But I always thought the domestic space is like this.

Certainly, it's a financial thing. Maybe you need a dog. I've gone too much. A cat. I think with all this costume talk, you'll be buying that house with somebody sooner than you think. I think there's maybe some crossover between the meat-eater listeners and the cosplay folks. What do you think?

In the who? Go over ants. So like costume people. Oh, yeah, there could be. But the problem is the reason we can't send women to Rick and Cal is because I don't think there's a lot of women listening. I think there's a lot of women who are already involved with the fella, and that's why they're listening, because he's playing

it. We need some listener responses. That's exactly why we can talk. It's like a guy's club on here. You can talk about whatever you want. I don't come on this podcast in search of ladies, Steve. I know you do me a... No, it's not your motivation.

Your motivation is to wrestle with ideas. That's right. You like to live a life of the mind. That's true. Think about how much fun it would be. A couple years down the line, we could do a podcast, and we'd be like, yep, we're just sitting there. Then she called.

I did it. I put those two together. And then we're like recording over at Rick and his new wife's house. Yep. Talk about full circle. Now, Rick, now that media of the TV shows up on Netflix, at least there's like 32 or 36 episodes on Netflix just waiting to be consumed. Did you shoot any of those?

No. So we can't send any ladies to watch out your work. No. But we'll just pretend. The Mexico Cousier you shot, if it's not up already, it should be up anytime. Oh, there we go. No, is that up?

I thought that was season seven. I think it's five and six are up on Netflix. Or is it six and seven? I think that's six. But I just say that I'm part of the brand, part of the Meteor brand. I like that. But I'm just trying to think of ways

that ladies can go see your handiwork website. It's very abstract because it's like you're just watching something you filmed and they don't know what you know. No, the TV shows like two camera guys, sometimes three camera guys. They can

see me in my full reality television amazingness on NBC's The Island. Were you naked on that a lot? No. I think the only time I'm on camera with my shirt off, I got bit by ants. I'm having a little bit of an allergic reaction.

What kind of ants? Fire ants? It hurts? Yeah, I'm allergic to them. I don't like them. I don't mind them, but they don't do me any good when it comes to... Was this your first blacktail hunt? No. Really? It was my second.

Yeah, because he was up hunting the high country with us this fall. Yeah, totally different hunt, though. Well, we went up there just to check it out. What do you like better? I haven't had them both very recently. Do you like black tail liver cooked in butter with caramelized onions or slow-cooked grilled ribs better? I think the ribs were better.

You like the ribs better than the liver? Well, I would say the ribs, in terms of typical meat consumption, tasted like something I would eat at a restaurant it just tasted like great meat the ribs tender yep the ribs and then the liver is like oh that's really interesting tasting it's really good but it's like uh i don't know the difference but in terms of uh not an everyday meal yeah Yeah, not every... Just a little bit peculiar. Yeah, more nuanced, which... Giannis is very hit and miss with the liver, I've found.

Did you enjoy the black tail liver? No, he was out. He was like... Because I always say that I used to like... What I liked about Giannis, why I liked him, was that we had shared experiences basically for years yeah anything i had gone and hunted roughly four years exactly anything i had gone hunted you were there so there was never like a gap right now i'm always like hey

you know how we were just and he's like i wasn't there and it's caused like a real disconnect between me and yanni strain the relationship yeah because now i'm like i wasn't there and it's caused like a real disconnect between me and yanni strain the relationship yeah because now i'm like i'm like hey you know how we were just eating that he's like no i wasn't there honey because he was having his knee surgery i know you do it a lot too it really it's but i gotta say that it was really hard on me emotionally to not have to for there to be a gap in our knowledge. It's hard on me emotionally. Now it's hard on you physically because that knee's got me moving so fast. Because he's got that new knee.

Now he hauls ass with that new knee he's got. Speaking of those ribs, though, you know, they're so good. And I got to say, I was telling Cal after we ate them, I think I was telling you, like I'm almost, yeah, we were talking about it, about how like 10 years ago, I'd have like the back strap and like the bitch and roast out of the rear ham. Used to all go first, and I would hoard those chunks.

And now it's like- You contradicted yourself there. I'm sorry. I did? You said you'd hoard them, but they'd go first. Well, I'd hoard them for myself. Like I wouldn't be giving them away or trading them, whatnot. And now it's like, just because I've learned how to prepare the chunks of meat

that have the collagen in them and all that stuff. You had a great line last night. Do you remember it? No. Johnny had a good one? If it doesn't have a tendon in it, I almost don't want to eat it. Which I think is

eye-opening. That might have been brooding. No, that was you, man. I said that? Yeah. Good work, John. But yeah, it's it just makes wild games so pleasurable and silky and never dry. Never dry.

Necks, shanks, front shoulders, ribs. Don't know what you're missing. We, uh, the boat, he just ducked around the corner, so he's gonna be coming back. We better get broke down. Maybe we'll tie this

in with another shorty no i don't know maybe it was doesn't matter i need uh retribution like when are we gonna plan the black tilt i'm so hard-headed i i want to do another october hunt i'm like i'd no need to figure it out maybe we'll maybe we'll come on the 30th you can can hunt one day. Yeah, you can have one October. What happened this year, the hunt ultimately turned out good. Ultimately turned out good. But what happened was, you know, hereabouts, you know, different people have their different theories about what peak, like when the rut, when the breeding season kicks in full balls.

And when the breeding season kicks in full balls, the when the breeding season kicks in full balls the bucks are up and about more they they're a little bit they operate with a little bit more abandoned you know the less cautious they're more likely to come into calls like noises you use that mimic the sound of fawns and distress and the bucks are just like amped up looking for other deer and just you know going crazy now everybody says like oh the first week of november and other people say uh well no that's total bullshit because it's the first half of the second week of november um but what everyone is October sucks. What month is it? We now tried twice.

After two October blacktail hunts, I'm done thinking it was just a fluke. I think hunting blacktails in October is very difficult. They're not up in the high. If you count man days, user days like they do

for the National Forest for an outfitter, we probably put in... We hunted two groups of clover. We put in 13 user days. This week. And then last time, we were up in the high country in October. We argued about this the other night.

That situation, there's that hunt. Right? No, we still saw some deer okay but it still wasn't a good hunt it was like we're not a good we're we're struggling you know especially for the amount of sign we were seeing it was like the deer were here yesterday kind of a thing yeah hunting in august yeah it's just like you kind of wish there weren't so many of them out and about because it feels like not i want to say easy but it feels like yeah borderline easy august i gotta say something in the right area just as a camera just as a camera operator watching the hunt i feel like i'm with cow like this hunt was awesome because of how

difficult and rare was to even get a glimpse of a critter yeah i mean it wasn't it wasn't the best time to get a quick kill or fill a freezer but but i've never been so excited to see poop yeah exactly like oh my god yeah there is fresh scat in this trail yeah that i mean that no seeing rubs and we're like oh that's a fresh rub yeah they're actually here yeah yeah the you just talked about seeing fresh deer droppings reminded me of dirt myth story about his buddy that um that got uh was using the restroom and then throughout the day couldn't tell why he was smelling an awful smell. And then realized that he had somehow landed some on the shoulder portion

of his suspenders when they were hanging down. Dude, I love that. Dylan Brown. So every time he looks to the left, he's like, what is that smell? On that note, we got to get on a plane. On a landing craft. All right. Until next time.

Tune in next time. Thank you. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. OnX Hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in OnX are available for your hunts this season. Now the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K topo maps, waypoints and tracking.

You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service as a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out OnX if you visit onxmaps.com slash meet.