The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 625: MeatEater Radio Live! Whitetail Photography and a Monkey Escape with Steve, Spencer, and Janis

Episode Date: November 15, 2024

Welcome to MeatEater Radio Live! Join Steve Rinella and the rest of the crew as they go LIVE from MeatEater HQ every Thursday at 11am MT! They’ll have segments, call-in guests, and real-time interaction with the audience. You can watch the stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel, or catch the audio version of the show on Fridays. Today's episode is hosted by Spencer Neuharth, Steve Rinella, Janis Putelis, and Phil Taylor.  Guests: Renown whitetail photographer Matt Hansen and journalist Mitchell Black with the Post and Courier. Connect with The MeatEater Podcast Network MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We've got a new book coming out in the meat eater universe. And for the first time, it is not one of mine. Instead, it's my colleague, Danielle Pruitt's. Yeah, Danielle, the founder of Wild and Whole. It's called Meat Eaters Wild and Whole Seasonal Recipes for the Conscious Cook. And it's an ode to cooking seasonally with wild and foraged ingredients. Now let's get to what you'll find in this book. This cookbook contains more than 80 recipes inspired by what you can hunt, fish, forage

or grow in your garden each season. Often Danielle will pair her ingredients to reflect both the hunting season and the growing season. So her turkey cutlet is combined with springtime morels. Her Gulf Coast redfish with summertime Sweetcorn she cooks venison with pumpkin for a tasty fall stew if that all sounds complicated trust me It is not complicated Danielle has a knack for creating recipes worthy of a five-star kitchen

But accessible to two-star cooks And you'll come away armed with techniques that will make you a better cook all around. This book is also beautiful to look at with gorgeous full-color photographs that inspire you to take a real hard look at your kitchen's output. It's Meat Eaters Wild and Whole, Seasonal Recipes for the Conscious Cook

by Danielle Pruitt. It is out now and it's available at themeateter.com Wild and Whole Seasonal Recipes for the Conscious Cook by Danielle Pruitt. It is out now and it's available at TheMeatEater.com or wherever books are sold. Meet your podcast. Whoa Radio live it's 11 a.m. Mountain time on November 14th, and we're live from meat eater HQ in Bozeman, Montana I'm your host Spencer Dewarth joined today by Steve Rinella and Giannis Poutelis on today's show We're interviewing the world's greatest white-tailed deer photographer Matt Hanson Then we've got a migration report from flying V's Matt McCormick followed by one-minute fishing with dr Randall Williams after that we'll look at old hunting and fishing pictures for a new segment

called Throwback Thursday and finally we'll interview a journalist about how 43 monkeys escaped a South Carolina research facility but first there's more about can go ahead what do you got a few things the white-tailed deer photographer I don't view it it's's not going to be an interview. It's going to be a criticism. Okay, by one of our three hosts. Yes. You're not going to interview about how they escaped. It's kind of more about like what about how they escaped. Sure. Because like, you'd have to interview the monkeys. Well, how would you phrase it then? What do you think the interview's about?

We're going to talk to him about the escape of a bunch of Monkeys now, how did they escape? I think that if you had one of the monkeys coming on Uh-huh, and we're like we're gonna talk to the monkey about how he escaped. That's interesting Well, maybe our journalists has talked to one of these monkeys because I've heard that they've captured some by now. Oh Well, okay. I had another problem with something you said but but go on. Oh, you go on. What else? Eh... No, no, I'm just glad to be here. It seems like it.

Yanni, first thing, tell us about your Wisconsin whitetail hunt. Steve, is this alright? Does this interest you? No. No, okay. Just talk to me. I already know what happened. Talk to me. Do you? How do you know what happened?

I saw a picture of you killing a nice buck. It's like what more is there to say? Pictures speak for themselves. I hear ya. You know there's a point in the fall too where you get to the point like early on where I'm like, man I want to hear everybody's hunting story, you know, detail by detail. And then as it wears on and when has killed one. I'm like good Awesome deer and then let's move on and where are you at now in that? I'm still I'm still pretty keen on listening to the stories So somebody said to me last week

They said the meat eater like group chat must be popping off right now like everyone's like the ruts doing this I just saw this my trail cams are blowing up. I said no in fact It's not there was a group chat But then Yanni just started texting me on the side because we were the only ones who were engaging Yeah, I was a little offended by those fun by those guys You know I when I use the f-word on them. You know it's in it's an endearment, but Being offended like offended no oh It starts with a few and then ends in E-R-S.

But Yanni stopped it about the F-U in there. Oh, he left out the K. Yeah, I started. It was basically the group from One Week in November. So if you go back and watch that, you can see who I'm talking about. But I texted all of them and was kind of like starting the Rutt, White Tail Rutt group chat. And dead silence from everybody besides Spencer. And after a couple back and forth, I'm like, well, I guess we're chopped liver, buddy. And yeah, so I know they're not like when I get into a group text, I like,

I'll look, but I don't want I don't I don't engage. I look, but I don't add to it. But that's, you're, you're a bad, you're a bad member then of the group chat. No, not, not a desirable person to have in the group chat at that point. My, my, my neighborhood has a group chat and it's mostly like, it'd be like, Oh, there's a bear over there. Like there's two moose fighting in the yard or like we saw potential pervert drive through. Stuff like that.

And one day I was gonna send one out because my kids' pigeons went to live somewhere else. We don't know where they went to live. And I was gonna, two. Okay. And I was gonna send out a note saying, if you see these pigeons, let me know. But then I didn't and I said I'll

sit at the dinner table I said this will be the first time I've ever engaged with the neighborhood group chat that seemed worthy of a text and my kids teased me about it and then I changed my mind and didn't do it I think that sort that sort of group chat that's acceptable behavior because it's not a group of friends it's a it's a grant on a grander scale. It's an entire neighborhood There's probably 30 people maybe 40 people quite a few anyways I felt a little bit shunned that no one else wanted I mean we know that everybody else is hunting deer and that they didn't want to participate

Anywho I shouldn't have to find out on Instagram that Mark Kenyon killed a buck He should be that's what I'm talking about right there Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You'll know buddy when I'm off Instagram You'll know immediately if you're in my circle or not because you either will be getting texts Hey, how's the rut going or you won't be you didn't send me anything I got a little group text with two people about my beaver cam I got a little group text with two people about my beaver cam. Do you want to be on that? Sure, we'll start a new one. You know, Chester needs to be in it

because I was... Oh yeah, yeah yeah yeah, Chester's in. Chester's in, do it. Is this really all that's gonna happen in this show? No, no, no. Well, I'll tell you this, we set aside 10 minutes for Yanni's deer hunt story. How many minutes do I have left?

You got 5 to go. Alright. Really? I had a feeling this would happen. I start... No. I started hunting November 4th, was my first day. Um...

The area that I was hunting... Four minutes. The area that I was hunting, um... This is a... There's been a trend now where the weather forecast is a quarter inch of rain for the entire day. And then 36 hours later Someone's like oh, did you hear it rained three inches in so-and-so County? Well, that's what I had so it got so bad the second day that I actually pulled out of the stand at noon because I was

afraid that my camera was just gonna get waterlogged and You know shit the bed. Okay, so Day three good wind I sit on a high ridge for the morning hunt, no deer. I moved down to food for the evening, no deer come by me, I see food out or deer come out in the ag fields but nothing I wouldn't call it like a deer sighting because it wasn't in my little bubble right? It wasn't like oh I might get a shot. It was like, oh. You could have drove around and seen some deer.

Yeah, exactly. Day four, the wind is just right. Four, the oak flat. I'm like, I'm gonna go sit the oak flat. First thing in the morning, pretty good buck. I sent you a picture of the buck. You're like, that's not a shooter? I'm like, well, which you don't know

is that he's like got a nice frame frame, but he has got one long time, it's like five inches long, and everything else is these little nubs. It's a good photo of him. Yeah, and I tell you what, that morning, because we had so much rain, he comes walking across the Oak Flat, and those dark antlers are all wet,

and the sun's just kinda punching through a little bit, it's getting enough angle, and so those antlers are all wet and the sun's just kind of punching through a little bit, it's getting enough angle and so those antlers are glistening and you know, we all say, oh we like to pass on these deer, but in all honesty, if you even hesitate on that white tailed deer, I don't care if it's a doe or a buck, you hesitate and it's not like you're sitting there going, well let me bring out the pros and cons of this buck. You hesitate, you pass that buck, because that's kind of what happened I was like I don't know oh my god that opportunity is gone can you save one quick cut him off where I have

like 10 seconds you got two minutes on it oh it's really yeah um save me 10 seconds and so he comes through first a Seven point comes through maybe like two hours later At that point I'm thinking man if I can get like a buck to come through every two hours today Yeah, I'm gonna have a hell of a day Well the next two deer are does and but they do come in on like the every two hour schedule and then the the fifth year is a doe she comes through at about 3 30 and You know I figured out a way to kind of get through the all-day grind of the white-tailed rut There's always something huh you look at your cell phone there is that I try not to because the oak flat the farthest spot

I can range is 86 yards so deer shows up by the time you actually see it He's probably at 75 or 70 and they they're walking, they're coming fast. You don't have time to text, I gotta go. Into your group chat. And so I try not to do that, but you can always tell yourself something, right? It's like there's the morning, oh the morning's exciting. Oh, then there's the midday. Well, that's when the big bucks are on their feet cruising because the does are bedded. And that's when the big bucks are going to come through. And then you get to three and you're like, oh now it's the prime time until five until dark, right? so

Doe comes in at 330 She's not supposed to go behind me because I've got this wall of cut maples thrown down That is supposed to deter any deer to get behind me and and downwind of me. Yes. She takes a split second look at it and just weaves right into there. And I'm like, son of a bitch, you know? Like she hesitated, but not long enough to change her mind, you know? So I had my bow in hand.

I was gonna shoot her. No opportunity. 45. Why were you gonna shoot her? Because I'm just into shooting deer. So I'm, you know know I thought you're big buck hunting sorry well I was but I was also doe hunting help some big buck hunt mm-hmm yeah and so 45 minutes later I mean picture perfect what I love about

seeing these white tails and those Midwestern deciduous woods mm-hmm the first thing that material materializes is that white set of antlers, right? Because their body just blends in like part of the, it's the tapestry, you know, of the ground and the trees. And so it's like all sudden there's this rack and then two steps later sort of like the ghost of the body, you know, shows up and like this buck. I'm like oh, yeah Like shooter. I'm on it. Ah He's on the trail of the doe and I'm thinking oh He's gonna do the same thing like my little wall that I've done here is not gonna stop him

So I swing around the tree get the camera pointed at him. He comes into my shooting lane. I'm at full draw I give him that map, but I gave him a map he didn't hear me mmm if anybody's still out hunting there if you're gonna give them the old map to stop them do it loud if you're gonna do it at a three or four do it at like a nine or a ten I don't think they're gonna jump out of their skin and run the other way just because you give them a loud map so he goes through my shooting lane and I'm like oh oh well that's it. Well he gets to my little wall. The Magno line. Yeah, he gets there and he's like,

huh, takes two steps back, takes a right, and then comes right. Cause his big old rack would fit through it. And then comes right underneath my stand at 10 yards. Unfortunately I was already at full draw so I couldn't swing the camera and stay on him. I'm pretty sure he walked out of frame for the shot.

But ten yards, scapula, rib on the way in, rib on the way out, pass through. I arranged a spot where he was standing at ten where I shot him. When I watched him, where he fell over, I arranged him on the ground at 49 yards. No way. Wonderful. Buh, read the script. Beautiful. Dude, that's awesome. Good on you, Yanni.

Steve, what's your 10 second? Oh, just so I'm not, you know, cause I'm trying to sell you on this little scheme me and poverty Pat are working out. You don't have to sell me. Well, listen, I'm sending out two mole trees. Okay. Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, and I'll give you the login.

Okay. He's gonna send them out. Now that's a group text I'd like to get in. So we're sending out a couple mole trees out there. Two isn't enough. Yeah. Well that's I just happen to have two sitting on my workbench. Yeah. I was saying you'd have those. Uh-huh. We're gonna send them out. I can add more to it. Yep. I'll give you the login and we're gonna find out what all is what. I'm in. I think I know what's there. Big white tail. The only reason I'm inviting you Oh is to make him jealous. Oh So you're already telling me I'm out

Yeah, yeah, damn good cuz poverty pat was kind of running this this whole idea by me too. What yeah? Oh, you know I didn't want to tell you see it is kind of like his deal So maybe you're out Spencer he brought it up a little live show to me, and I was kind of poking around then like oh it Where's this property yet? How many acres and where how many where the cattle had on this property? I think we put the full court me leader Pratt On this next we'll figure it out off air But I hope how he has not listening because he's gonna probably he might take all this the wrong way Yeah, I'm gonna be wise as I don't wind up being out

If I'm not being out, I'm gonna be pissed Speaking of picture perfect whitetail scenes like Yanni had our next guest is the world's greatest whitetail dear Photographer Matt Hansen if you don't know his name, you certainly know his work which has been used across the hunting industry Matt Welcome to the show Hey, what's up guys? How's it going? Good. Matt, tell us where you're standing today. Not in the office. Nice, soggy, Midwestern day. And then one of my honey holes. Well, it used to be a honey hole. One buck wandered in October 24th. So I guess one bucks better than none. Okay. One of your honey holes.

Now tell us about the kinds of places that you take these wonderful pictures, is it private ground, state parks, national parks, city parks? Like what's your favorite spots to get these great photos? Yes, all the above. Right now I'm in a metro area, so it's more like a city park surrounded by neighborhoods. And I have three or four of these kinds of spots.

And then I also do the national parks. I have some state parks and then some wildlife refuges. Okay, Steve, the floor is yours. So well, you want me to tell them? Yeah, yeah. Hold on. But first, Matt, are you, are you hunting with the camera today or with a bow? Camera, okay. Do you hunt do you hunt with a bow or hunt with anything?

Yep, I do I Shot a mule deer and a pronghorn last month in Wyoming, but I normally do like one hunt every few years I haven't killed a white tail and probably Four years, huh? Now Steve had some thoughts about where some of these photos. Yeah. I want to hear this criticism. Okay. Well, what I was sharing with the boys here and you know, if you're doing food photography, the food needs to, the food needs to be edible. Okay. Like in the old days, if you were like, if you're advertising place settings,

I think you can get away with the food not being edible. But if it's food photography, the food is edible. So on a food shoot, you might, uh, they used to like take a turkey and they would literally varnish a turkey right now that you get the hasby food, be animal. I feel that it should be illegal. Like, I think if you're putting a deer, a photo of a deer in a hunting context, meaning on a hunting magazine, hunting website, that should be a huntable deer. I don't think it's fair to put a not huntable deer in a hunting publication. I think it should be illegal.

Okay. All right. I hear that. Matt, what percentage of whitetails that you photograph are not huntable? Because you're getting people excited and it's not true. Yeah. Well, it's just like all the elk photos you see. So you gotta talk to the elk photographers. That should be illegal too. Matt, tell folks where they've seen your pictures before.

Just generally all the hunting magazines. Currently, I have Peterson's hunting cover and then North American whitetail cover I think I have a spread and bow hunter. Well, and then all the hunting companies as well Cabela's bass Pro you guys Spencer's been very good to me for the website doing I think it's over 200 articles now. Hmm So yep, and how many covers related how many covers have you had in your life magazines it's well over a hundred now I've been doing this for about ten years it really took

traction five years ago so probably about 80 in the past five years and how is that a good run how was the whitet Tail photography business changed over the last decade then? Is it getting harder to make a living doing this? Yes, but obviously with everything changing to online makes some things difficult, but I'm going to go positive here and say the concentration on big racks has lessened in the past decade. And that's really helped me because about half my covers are 140 inch deer or smaller.

And 10, 20 years ago, I would have barely sold any of those. So that's a huge positive in the hunting industry. And I think you guys have a lot of blame or credit to that because meat eater obviously you shoot big animals when you see them but you're not completely picky every time you go out which has been a huge help for me because I'd much rather a decent mature buck in a gorgeous scene than just a giant buck in a really messy scene. Steve, you feel a little bad now for criticizing him?

Yeah, a little bit. Okay. But the wheels that are turning in my head is let's say, like how much goodwill would you get if a publication or an online thing said, you know what, bro? All of our deer, all of our wildlife photography is huntable game. I thought you were going to go a different direction, say like field and streams should put a spike on their cover. No, no, no, no, I don't care what they do.

Okay. Yeah. Matt, tell us, tell us about your favorite. Tell us about your favorite photo of all time that you've ever taken in this last decade of white tail deer photography. Okay. There's a lot lot of them but the one that comes to mind is probably my most well-known one. It's just a really nice buck with a huge vapor cloud in a snowy setting which was actually I looked up the EXIF data it was November 14th so today in 2018. Let's see it Phil. It's not prep Steve. Oh that's called BAP. Yeah. Bad at producing. Okay so your favorite photo how big was that white tail that you

took was he a giant or was he just one of your standard ones? Yeah he's pretty big. He's in the 150s, I would say. Is the vapor cloud that's his breath? Yes. So backlit, really cold morning, and he's right on the edge of a clearing. So I was in the woods. He was right on the edge of the woods, and I was shooting back towards the field. Phil is gonna work on getting that photo. I got a question while we're waiting on that. What Matt, is there like a behavior, a deer behavior that you think that you've noticed over the years of doing this with the camera that maybe most

whitetail deer hunters don't know about or aren't like privy to? Something that you've seen because of you're just the amount of hours you've spent with these deer and bucks and I feel a lot of hunters don't get up close and personal with the snort wheeze and it's pretty intimidating and pretty awesome hmm yeah snort wheeze if you know that's like the most aggressive vocalization that a white tail has in his Rolodex That's telling another white tail. I'm gonna whoop your ass right now if you come over here and that's that's what a snort is Yep, Matt. Have you ever been photographing a deer that ends up getting shot?

Yes, um a lot on this property actually, oh So this used to be Yes, a lot on this property actually. Oh, oh! So this used to be a really big hole. 20, we had some really good bucks and we're down to one now. So they come and go as they please. And unfortunately, well, I hunt also, so it's not completely unfortunately.

But if you just ask for permission, I think Michigan is 150 yards. I don't know what other states in the Midwest are. But if you get written permission from neighbors at 150 yards, you can bow hunt that animal. And these deer are coming and going almost every day. So a lot get wiped out. And then also a fundamental thing, me and my buddy surprised our parents down at a

Texas hunt. So we showed up the day before, total surprise. And I actually photographed the buck that my dad shot the following day. So that's kind of cool. So he has the live and Field kill shot in his office now, which is pretty neat. That's good. Have you ever been? Oh, okay Phil now has Matt's favorite photo of all time on the screen. Yeah, it looks like that deer eats squirrels, man Uh-huh when people say that a big buck for the the cover of outdoor magazines, that's what they're talking about. Matt, where has that photo been used before? That was on the cover of Quality White Tails.

So actually that afternoon I went to a Chick-fil-A and immediately sent it to Lindsay, and he was like, yep. So then it was on the following cover. Yeah, it's cool. Normally it doesn't happen that quickly because you shoot, like this year I'm gonna be selling for next fall but this was just the perfect thing that worked

out November 14th there was still time for the winter issue to come out and it was just meant to be. Yeah that buck is worthy of an outdoor magazine. Matt good luck with the rest of your photo taking and you're hunting this fall you can see Matt's work on our website. Any magazine rack you look at in a gas station or grocery store, if you see a beautiful picture of a whitetail, there's a decent chance that that belongs to Matt Hanson.

Matt. Phil's tearing it up now. Look at all these photos. He's tearing at a new one over there now. Ryan says, WAP, which doesn't mean what you think it means. It means wonderful at producing says Ryan and if you are part of our YouTube audience you can see these wonderful pictures. Oh I like that one too good job Phil. Alright thank you Matt have a good day in the woods. Phil is kicking ass. Folks, I've got some very exciting news. First Light has just launched their all new completely reinvented whitetail line.

This has been after years of brainstorming, prototyping, and field testing. This innovative new whitetail system incorporates the technology, the features, and the designs demanded by some of the most hardcore deer hunters in the world. People like Levi Morgan, Tony Peterson, myself, Andy May, Jeff Sturgis, Michael Hunsucker, Sean Luckdall, a whole bunch more. We were all involved in designing what we want. This is the system. These are the jackets and bibs that we have helped design.

I'm very excited with what we've come up with. They are all fully windproof. They are all featuring new, more technically advanced and more weatherproof fabrics and insulation. Like I said, three new jackets with a whole bunch of interesting new features, including an improved kit link pass through system, interchangeable hoods, new cuts with collars

and wrist gaskets, all sorts of stuff. To learn more about the new First Light Whitetail system that's right for you, just go on over to firstlight.com. All right, our next segment is the migration report. When you can't find food and the temps are so low then you suffer, all right, all right. Just migration is the way. You boys like that? I couldn't understand what it said.

Now the migration report is where Matt McCormick gives a waterfowl hunting forecast for each flyway. Take it away, Matt. Hey guys, I'm Matt McCormick with Flying V and welcome to the meat eater migration report for November 14th, 2024. I'm reporting to you live from the gorge here in Southwest Montana, and we are witnessing significant shifts

in the waterfowl migration as we move deeper into November. Let's dive right in. Here in the Pacific Flyway we have mega cold weather on the way. We're talking like single digits up in Alberta. This cold snap will absolutely freeze up the small holding water up in Alberta and should push some of those birds from the Peace River area hopefully all the way down into the states. The Pacific Northwest is already seeing a big influx of Wigeon on the front end of this storm and although overall goose numbers are down over

here in the Pacific Flyway, reports are showing good movement into all the staging areas across the flyway. Here in Montana we are experiencing a steady flow of ducks arriving daily over the last few weeks but we're all ready for a little bit colder weather. In the central flyway cold fronts and north winds have picked up the pace of the migration. There are still a pile of birds balled up right there at the Canadian US border, but South Dakota does still hold a large concentration of both ducks and geese. The front end of that migration is pushing all the way down into Kansas and Oklahoma, and I know those guys down in Oklahoma are just beating them up right now on that leading

edge. As temperatures continue to drop over the next few weeks, hunters can expect increased activity and fresh arrivals all along the flyway. So if you guys are wondering if you should go hunting, now is the time. It's been a little bit of an unusual year for everybody in the Mississippi Flyway with temperatures being above average. But the migration is still progressing steadily. Recent rains have improved habitat conditions, setting the stage for prime duck hunting opportunities.

And the geese aren't all that far behind. Hunters in Minnesota can look forward to those big migration days that everyone has been waiting for. They're on their way, boys. So call up your buddies, load up the guns, get in the pit, and go hunting because they're coming. Lastly in the Atlantic Flyway migration activity is gradually increasing much like the other parts of the country colder

temperatures and improved habitat conditions are expected to drive movement in the upcoming weeks. Hunters along the eastern seaboard should keep a close eye on weather patterns as they'll play a really big role in the upcoming weeks. Hunters along the eastern seaboard should keep a close eye on weather patterns as they'll play a really big role in the timing and the volume of the incoming birds. I know that there's a bunch of birds up in the St. Lawrence region still. They will push down into you guys here shortly. That's it for this week's migration report.

Whether you're hunting sheet water in the Pacific Northwest or gearing up for some big mig days in the Mississippiissippi flyway the upcoming weather patterns are setting the stage for some killer hunting ahead this is going to be exciting guys november is here we're all looking forward to the cooler weather stay tuned for more updates and good luck out there back to you guys hot damn that's good damn phil you know what you ought to do, man? What's that? I would rig it up where when he's doing that, it's got one of those weatherman things in the background.

That sounds like a lot of money and work. And he points and it's like all kinds of graphics and like arrows. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that sounds incredible. I'd love to see it. That's how I would regret it. Steve, I've seen some news lately about the geese arriving at Freeze Out Lake in Montana. That's a place I've heard you talk about a few times.

Dude, we used to do it every year. What's your relationship with that lake? Oh, we go up to Hunt Snow Geese. And we call the hotline. This is pre-internet. The internet wasn't as souped up as it is now. Okay. I liked it better back then. I was telling someone the other day, right in this room, the main thing I like about the internet is you can watch the world's greatest hockey

goals of all time in slow motion. That's your favorite thing. There's so much more going on than you think is going on. That's a good use of the internet. But I preferred it when you would call the hotline yeah and they would estimate they'd be like 8,000 snows 20,000 snows 25,000 snows and then you drop everything okay go to freeze this hotline still exists I don't know man probably it's all I think it's all online now it's stupid now are you impressed by like the trickery of the shooter or the reaction of the goalie or when you're

watching these slow mo hockey shots, what, what, what to the late? You're on like, yeah. And the thing is being Randall or Tom about this prior to this, maybe two guys knew what happened. Do you know what I mean? The, the like, maybe two people knew what exactly happened on that goal. Meaning when you're coming in and the puck's between your feet and you backhand,

no one knows. None of the spectators know. No one knows. Also, they're aware that the puck's in the net, but they never knew what the guy did. He has to go to the grave knowing what he did and no one knows what he did Well, no, you know you make it to the grave because the next day on Sports Center. They showed it in slow-mo I mean back in the old days. Oh that okay

That brings me joy that those highlights bring you joy. My daughter's a hockey player. Okay. Yeah. Yeah All right. Let's take a break for some listener feedback Phil. What's the chat have to say? Oh a lot of stuff first of all Golden arrows wondering Giannis. Why are you wearing a letterman's jacket? You want to talk about what you're wearing there? You know, I always wanted a letter letterman's jacket when I was in high school Either of you ever know big J on it. So I had the letter but I know went through with it and got the jacket Yeah, I think our school even had those I got a letter too for running cross-country

But I didn't get jacket either. Yeah same here. I got a band. No this was just sitting on my desk and Yeah, I tried it on and I thought man if it's really nice So I decided to wear it for the show today and Steve was trying to talk to me out of it so he could have it That's right to stormy Kroemer Steve one of my favorite Yanni stories of all time is he had a blaze orange stormy Kroemer hat and he had it so long that it faded so much and eventually a game warden told him that that was his last year with that hat was it your last year indeed well yeah I got a new one it's getting to be not that orange. He goes you can hunt this year, but next year I might have a new hat. Yeah

So not a letter, not a letterman's jacket. No, it's a Stormy Cromer meat eater colab You can find it on the website. I bet you can find it on the Stormy Cromer website too. It's got like a little quilting on the inside If you can't afford that on the inside You can't afford that Bullshitters calendar no, but how did you have to say it for the folks that don't like the the naughty language? Oh, yeah for clay I said clay. I made up a clay new cover. It was dilapidated old potties Because he does but he said we could have used crappers and he still would have been okay with his family having it right But yeah dilapidated old potties, but it's actually not

available. It's only available for everyone else. You gotta get the F dub for everyone else. You have to have the swear word. I was listening to, you know, uh, uh, well quite surprised me. I think, I think like swear words are different now. Oh, six days before the election, uh, JD Vance was on Rogan's podcast and he said the F word. So I'm like, okay, we're in a new era now. You could be running for vice president and say the F word, damn sure could be on this calendar.

You think there was a time in your life where the vice president couldn't say the F word? Yeah, it was seven days ago. It was seven days before. LBJ has had a pretty filthy mouth and I think it was kind of like off the record. Everyone knew. It was all that stuff, the secret tapes. Sure.

So the calendar in the MeatEater store and Yanni's spiffy Stormy Kromer orange vest also in the store. And I'm taking suggestions for next year's calendar where we were talking about doing fucked up old fish cleaning stations, but it's hard to capture the image and it's hard to capture the smell mm-hmm then we are leading contenders fucked up old boats okay that's a good one fucked up old fishermen and it's just pictures of fucked up old fishermen I like that some oh yeah a lot of her dead, but what would they look like? Well, we're gonna get to one

What do you mean? Well, we I don't like the name throwback Thursdays. I think that's stupid. Oh, okay But there's a I didn't come up with throwback. That's like a social media. I know that's why I stupid internet I'll tell you about one. Okay, I'll tell you about one Phil. What else you got? Votive just recognized that Phil and Steve remind me of my parents passively aggressively arguing with each other in front of the kids. Votive, you should have heard us before the show. There was there was a pretty earnest remark made by Phil that said, Steve, I feel like you're mad at me a lot. And then I said that on days like today, I love my job. Yeah, both those things happen. Opinions on, I'm guessing just pen-raised birds

being released on public land. It's our only good upland opportunity here in Illinois and Wisconsin. That's from Zach. You guys have any, I think you've shared some of this, Steve, occasionally, but it's a little wishy washy. We don't have to get into it. I'm putting you on the spot here.

I don't mind me putting on the spot. Let's just say, if it was possible to take that money and effort and do the right habitat work to get wild birds on the ground, I think that that would be a better use of time than it is to set up a sort of pretend amusement park type situation. Johnny, anything to add?

No, I didn't know where Steve was going, but my first thought was that, yeah, I just wish that we could put that energy into habitat and then have wild birds. You're great. But if it is your only opportunity, have fun. It's a complicated situation and we should do a whole thing about it. Thanks for springing that up, Phil.

You're welcome, Steve. Last one before our next segment. Uh, this is kind of broad, but you guys are from the area sort of, so Thomas is asking... Do we still eat at Dave's Sushi? That's a great one. We can do that one too. Oh, I'll talk about that at link. I'll answer this. I'll talk about that

at link. Dave's at this question. I've been back. Okay, let's go. Let's go. We're switching. You guys still eat at Dave's Sushi. Listen man. That's from Ben. Set the stage. Set the stage. set the stage. Nope. All right, do we have time for this? We got time for anything we want to have time for.

My favorite restaurant in Moe, my favorite restaurant here used to be Dave's Sushi. Oh, I didn't know this. Oh, yeah dude. Okay. It's a Brunello family favorite. Oh. They bought some imported morel mushrooms. I didn't even know this

existed. They bought some morel mushrooms that were cultivated and imported from China and they were serving them like in a not cooked. They were like giving them a splash of vinegar, serving them uncooked, and they had made a bunch of people sick and killed a couple people. Then everybody's like, oh, it's dangerous to eat at Dave's Sushi. I said, well, not anymore. It ain't. Yeah. Guarantee they're not selling that.

It's like they say the safest day to fly was, you know, right after 9-11. So I took my family down there to eat just as an act of defiance, but just something changed down there, man. Oh, all the, just something changed. The vibe? The vibe. I ain't been back. So it's not your favorite anymore? I went that one time and I was like, by God, we're a Dave's family. And that's, I don't want to hear about it. And then now we haven't back. We're on to a new thing now. We're on to the wasabi. Oh, okay.

I like the table because my kids like, they squirt the sprite in your mouth and they throw eggs in the air and shit. It's called wasabi? Yeah, it's a Benihana's compa here in Bozeman. Yeah, there's some of those guys. Some of those guys get a little burned out over time and they don't put on a show. Mmm

That's art me and my kids favorite restaurant. My wife doesn't like it and then I I like the air works Mmm, I like going there. Yeah, and there's a lot of restaurants. I hate See I've been to that. There's some other there's some other sushi joints in our town and After the Dave's thing I went to the other ones and then I was like man If I'm gonna eat sushi in this town, I'm going back to Dave's. Damn straight. I'll go with you. Izaquia, that's the one. Well yeah, but you gotta win the lottery to go to Izaquia.

And I love going to Izaquia. Oh, I know those guys though. I could tax to get in there. That's an anniversary only dinner. But there's a deal man. That's not enjoying this local bozeman When you come I got a list of restaurants that long from there to there that I'm actually boycott me Oh, why hate him so bad okay? Hate him I'm going to one tonight a new one. That's why I've got this cardigan on Yeah, it's the only this is the only office in the world where you could walk in with something that's not like a meat-eater t-shirt

and people are like, oh, look at GQ over here. Where are you going to the Queen's funeral? Yeah, Yachty was teasing me the other day about my shirt. Really? Yeah, he's like a little fashion cop. Look at him too. I threw on a cardigan. We're going to go to the Bitter Root Bistro tonight. New place. Where do you get fashion advice to be out of here? Yeah, we'll remember that Phil. Let's do one more comment here, and then we got a move on Yes, this is I mean this could be a quick description

E-craigs outdoors could you guys explain how thermals work and how to take them into account while hunting never really understood this Go ahead Yanni like a quick warm air rises. Oh go ahead Yanni Yeah, Phil. I don't think you did a great job producing this one, but... I'll do it. No, no, no, I can answer it, but it's not a... Let me take a stab at it. Thermals, I'm gonna go real quick. Listen, I'll explain thermals very quickly, and then you can take them... You can explain how to take them into into account while hunting. Okay, anywhere where you have

topography meaning like some sort of hills mountains or even just little bitty hills like 10 20 feet it doesn't work on flat ground you need to have a place where there's air that's going to sink when it's cold, down the side of a hill, and then when it warms up, it's going to rise. Okay? So, the same way that if you put your hand over a fire, you can feel the heat well above the fire, but if you were able to put it, like, down below it or off to the side, it's not, you don't feel it quite as in the same distance.

It's because the heat's rising. Well, it sinks when it gets cold too, okay? It's not you don't feel it quite is in the same distance is because the heat's rising well It sinks when it gets cold too, okay, so Most days like we're at hunt in Wisconsin if the winds not blowing Like in the first morning when it's super cold at first light the air is sinking down the hillsides as the day warms The air starts to rise up the hillsides then then again in the evenings The air cools and it's gonna sink down the hillsides, okay? So that is how thermals work.

Yep, I'll add a little tidbit. Cold water can drive thermals as well, but let me back up and say this. I think of there being, I don't know if a meteorologist would agree, I think of there being two kinds of wind. There's wind that you go and look at the weather forecast and it tells you the wind's coming from the south.

There's that wind. And then there's a localized thermal wind that has to do with temperature shifts. How do you use them? Let me give you an extreme version. It's very common. If you, let's say you're bow hunting elk and you're looking at elk on a hillside

and you know the best approach is to come from above, it's real common to not make a play and wait for the thermals to switch. And be like, I'm not going now because I need to come from above and the air is going uphill. I'm gonna wait, the sun's gonna set, the air is gonna cool.

No, no, no, you messed it up. Oh, am I? I don't even know where I'm at. You need to come from above. You know you wanna approach from above. Above, and at at that moment when you first seen him at first light the air is still Sinking oh no, I was in the house. I was looking at a midday Either way, you know that as the air is cooling or when it's cold. The air is gonna be going Downhill and when it's warm the air is gonna be going uphill. And you might sit and be like,

we're not gonna do anything, we're gonna lay here for three hours until the thermals switch, at which point we'll be able to do the approach in the way that makes sense for the wind. And that's not what the weatherman's telling you, that's the topographical wind change. When I was saying about creeks,

you might always notice, you might always notice if you're on a creek you might always notice if you're on a creek that has any kind of like canyon-like aspect, you might always be like the wind is always with the current because that air, that water is cooling that little bit of air and you have a little micro climb of thermal with air coming down. So it's a good idea sometimes to sneak up creeks because you know that there's going to be an ever so slight downhill draft from that cool creek air. Here's another example. One time I got busted by thermals. I was on a north-facing, like deep dark timber hillside, right? Like I'm freezing my tail off sitting there, and I'm looking at elk across the drainage that are on a south-facing, quakey-covered hillside

that's in the sun. And I can feel the air dropping right down to the creek below me. And I'm thinking, well, it's just gonna drop down in there and then just gonna keep on going out. Well, what my scent actually did was it went to the bottom and then it caught that warm air that was going up the other side and then went right up the

other side to the elk and eventually busted me. Do I have more time still? No, it's almost like this question opened up a lot of hot tips and great conversation. Thanks. We talked about poverty pat earlier. The other day I was with poverty pat and we were looking at a wallow and I was talking about how a fella could set up on that wallow. And I said, you'd want to do two. You'd have to do two setups. Okay. Cause of the thermal. Sure. A more detailed breakdown of this. We have two really good articles on the meat eater.com understanding thermals and whitetail country from Tony Peterson and then how

to hunt a thermal hub from Beaumartonic and that thermal hub a lot of it has to do with hunting creek bottoms like and if you're if you if you need to approach a fucked up old shitter you might play the thermals depending on the condition that's a hot tip dude mark canyon just interviewed uh Dude, Mark Canyon just interviewed John Eberhardt and Oh from Tethered, not Ernie. What's the... Taylor? What's his... No, what's Ernie's partner's name? Greg Godfrey. He interviewed those two and in there they talk about thermals on the podcast. It's not the current episode, but the one before. They thoroughly talk through thermals. So go listen to that. When I first saw that question come up. I thought he wanted to know how long John's work Because I knew we could talk about this for hours

Moving on our next segment is One Minute Fishing. Do I feel lucky? Well do you punk? Go ahead, make my cast. One Minute Fishing is where we go live to someone who's fishing and they have one minute to catch a fish, and if they're successful we'll make a $500 donation to a conservation group. This week our angler is Dr. Randall Williams who's at the meat eater office pond Today dr. Randall is fishing for a donation to TRCP Steve What do you see in there when you look at the camera? I see That I see a homeless guy out by that pond with a Cleveland shirt on So wherever he came from Ohio State, sorry wherever he came from, Ohio State, sorry,

wherever he came from, it was Ohio. Yeah, okay. Randall, give us a scouting report on the office pond. Have you made a cast yet? I made a few half-hearted casts about 25 minutes ago. And since then, we've just been trying to keep our hands warm. There's a good breeze coming in from the west, maybe gusting up to 15 miles an hour or so.

So I apologize in advance if Corey's hands are shaking because we're rather chilly. It's cold. Oh, that's fine. The connection's not great anyway. Do whatever you want. And what's your tactic today, Randall, to be successful in one minute? Well, I've got a number four Panther Martin with a yellow body, red spots. I believe it's been featured on this very segment in previous episodes.

And I'm going to give it about two casts. I'm going to go one to the left, one to the right and just see what happens. I don't have much confidence. Steve, what would you do if you were out there trying to catch a fish in one minute? Same thing? I'd take a big old fat Lee form and put about 20 inches below a bobber and hook that out and just have you start the clock.

Okay, all right. Dr. Randall, your time starts when you make your first cast. Go ahead. Let's do this. All right. What if he has a license? What'd be funny if he got like a citation?

We had someone from the production side of the company do this a couple weeks ago and I asked them beforehand, I said, do you have a fishing license? And they did. They didn't see it. First one got hung in the trees, you guys. Oh no! Well the good news is you have 45 seconds to figure it out. You know what it ought to be?

If they don't catch catch they pay 500 bucks Okay, they do catch we pay 500 bucks. The opposite thing will happen where right now We have a lot of people volunteering to do this segment The other version I don't think we'll have anyone what's going on over there. Come on Randall. Let's go You have 15 seconds to go. Is he still in the tree? Why is he looking at us? We got one more game to get him.

Five seconds, Randall. Oh man, I wish we weren't in a cell phone black hole. We'll get it looking better. It did not happen for him today Randall tell us about what happened on that first cast. Oh, he's on the ground Previously previously I'd mentioned that there's a very strong breeze coming across the pond And I went to chuck it past that tree bring it right under there bit of a moon ball cast

Must have caught a cross breeze and then got hung up about 20 feet in the tree. I really, I'm surprised that it came out. Shocking to me really. I thought this was going to be a giant failure. Instead it was just sort of on par with all the other failures. We have yet to have someone be successful doing one minute fishing at the office pond Oh, I'll get in there. Okay. You will do it Steve but setting freeze over kind of yeah

Yeah, cuz I've seen tracks cutting across it. Mm-hmm. We're running out of time So before the freeze happens someone needs to be successful for one minute fishing I'll tear a new one out there. I'd like to tell you well done but I'm not going to insult you and our listeners so we'll try this again some other time. Randall does it seem like I just go out there with a worm and a bobber and win? I mean that was my that was what I'd hoped to do but you know I just didn't come prepared today sort of a last-minute deal so. Well don't do that, that's'm gonna do your pocket yeah I think I think you do well last thing Randall before we get out of here we had someone Leland Nally pipe in and say that Randall can be on the cover of

the calendar for effed up old fisherman oh oh I've got some I've got some real beauties in my back archives of me as a fucked up old fisherman so okay, okay, believe me, I think we could make a nice composite for the cover. Thank you, Randall. Thank you, Corey. All right. Our next segment is Throwback Thursday. Throwback on a Thursday morning, Stephen Brody take me back to 1974.

Throwback, I can't believe it. Did I mention Stephen Brody are old as shit. Dude, I saw Gordon. I saw Gordon live twice. I've talked about him. Phil, Phil. That was great. That little tune from Phil really tickled Steve in a way that I don't think I've ever seen.

Well, like I said, man, if you had an hour, I would start telling you about Gordon Lightfoot. Okay, next episode. Throwback Thursday is where we look at old hunting and fishing pictures of the crew. Yanni, you're going first. And if you are on our YouTube audience, either live or watching this in the future, you will get to see these photos that we're looking at All right, Yanni, what do we see in here? Well, I want you guys can see what it is, but want you guys to guess the year. Is that you? Can you zoom in there a little bit? Um, it is me. I didn't bring a picture of somebody else

I'm gonna guess this is the year 1991 no okay. What is it? I was born in 78 okay? Steve's got the advantage of math on his side here. It's like 2000. Oh, okay. What year was it? 97 Steve wins. He's the closest. Okay. But yeah, it was my first hunting trip out west. My dad took me out to Wyoming. I think we were out by Gillette, and we were with some other Latvian fellas. They had done this hunt quite a few times, and...

Yeah, I remember we drove out in a, like 87 Chevy Blazer and we had it set up where you could sleep in the back. So while one guy drove, the other guy could lay down and sleep in the back. Not very safe, you know, but we got it done. Cool thing about this particular hunt is that we did kind of a soft push on these Pronghorn to get them to move by us and I was actually being sort of semi guided by a Fellow that unfortunately is no longer with us Pete silted man, so this past in the last year he was one of the landowners up there in Wisconsin where where I hunt and

He was right with me. He set me up and I think I got prone. I think I had a bipod. There's a bipod on that rifle, isn't there? Looks like it. That was back when everybody had a Harris bipod. Yeah, and that's what that is on that rifle. The springs on there, are you catching the alders and stuff?

Well, it works out perfect. We're sitting there prone, set, I mean, we were just in some sage and the whole herd comes by at like 100 and hundred and fifty yards you know and finally this buck is there he's like all right shoot him okay I flipped the safety click I hadn't chambered one ah and so I chambered one and then shot the buck but there was a few moments there where I don't know exactly what Pete was saying behind me But he got quite flustered with me that I hadn't didn't have a round In the gun and what I really love is it looks like you're wearing mossy oak bottom land. Oh, yeah

Oh hell, yeah, did you have a lot of that back in your day? No, no, it was I Wasn't into it enough to know that that was mossy oak bottom lands It was a shirt that I think my dad had grown out of, along with those pants. I still own those pants and I can still fit into those pants. Oh. So I was 19 then. I still have those pants. They're Winchester brush pants and they have this very shiny, loud nylon on the front of the chap I guess of them, but I still have those they sit in a drawer every now and then I put them on why but Yeah

It's that was before I got contacts to when I still wore glasses every day that looks like an antelope hunting picture from 1997 sure does yeah All right next one I'll go next antelope hunting picture from 1997. Sure does. Yeah. All right. Next one. I'll go next. Um, it's a big old buck. Floating up dead on the beach. I was, I was a sophomore in college. I killed that buck on some public land on a near a big body of water. Harris by pod. I Harrisipod on there as well. I did have one, I don't know if that one

was a Harris Bipod or not, but here's what I'll always remember about that hunt, more than that mulee. That morning before sunrise in my headlight, I saw an eastern spotted skunk. Now if you don't know, those are super rare, and like South Dakota is at the very edge of their habitat. Many states have them listed as threatened or vulnerable.

And a cool thing about spotted skunks is that game agencies rely on trappers to track their population. Steve Yonah, are you boys familiar with like an eastern spotted skunk? Hell yeah I am. Never caught one. And I looked this up shortly after I saw him. In Missouri, for example, spotted skunk populations plummeted by 99% from the 1950s to the 1980s. In Minnesota, there were 20,000 spotted skunks harvested in 1946. By 1965, it was less than a thousand. And in 1992, it was just four. So their populations have crashed And I didn't exactly know what I was looking at when I saw that spotted skunk my dad was with me And he had said that's a civ cat did you hear that called yes civet cat?

Mm-hmm he was he was a big trapper, so he was also tickled to see that Spotted skunk now unlike striped skunks striped skunks have done a great job of adapting to cattle and crops and humans Spotted skunks have not they need old growth pine and oak forests For their protection so they have the right food And the cool thing about them is it's like very cartoonish But they do a handstand when they're gonna spray and that's how they aim Their sprayer to hit their target if they feel threatened So they do a little handstand aim their butt right at you

And that's how they hit you on like a stripe skunk which would just turn around and spray you and Phil now has a map Where do you show the picture but then talked about something besides the picture? I'm telling you when I look at that photo what I think of is seeing that stripe Oh that's not it skunk because it was that morning a few hours before I killed that buck I saw that spotted skunk because it was that morning a few hours before I killed that buck I saw that spotted skunk so that's what I always think of when I think of that haunter think of that deer think of that Picture cuz it would be like if I showed you this calendar and start talking about my computer uh-huh Yeah, you could do that. I'm sure you have some memories that are of your computer when you look at that calendar Phil has a Map when you look at that calendar. Phil has a map up here showing... What are we looking at? Is that a spotted skunk map?

That's a spotted skunk distribution that shows you how many times they've been recorded from the year 2000 to the year 2020. It's gotta be a patho- like a pathological, like there's a pathology thing. What do you mean? Are you sure it's not some kind of virus or... Habitat loss. I was looking this up last night. Really? Yeah. Just that. I'm sure there's other things like they they probably have some food disappear but they just they're not as adaptable as other small mammals. Because you have like the spread of

raccoons and possums going in the other direction. I just have a hard time believing that that it could be habitat and not some kind of pathological or competition issue. I'll send you the articles I read they were adamant Adamant that it is about the habitat loss. So if you look at that map where the greater Occurrences are it is in some pretty rough country right like along the ridge of the Appalachians and then in that eastern South Dakota region and then in the Ozarks, right? That's the Ozarks that I'm looking at. Probably the only spotted skunk I'll ever see. I was thrilled to have that sighting and encounter one of those. Steve, you're next.

Let's see your photo for Throwback Thursday. Well, so this is at my house where I grew up. My mom still lives there. The guy down the shore, so this is at my house where I grew up. My mom still lives there. The guy down the shore, so from Looker's left down the shore, was an old-timer John Gary. And John Gary was kind of one of my main fishing mentors when I was a little kid. He was a World War II guy like my dad. Okay. He would keep track of every book he read on a, in a journal and he'd keep track of how much he fished on a journal and he fished 250 days a year. But he lived by himself, which raises the question, how do you eat all those fish? Cause he didn't throw any kind of fish back. Well, he's, he's gone now. Okay. All the players are

gone here. I'm going to, I I'm gonna admit to a series of crimes. Can you describe the photo first for people who are just listening? I'm holding up two snap, I'm holding up two 10 pound snap turtles. What year was this? That was in high school. That's like, it's like 90, 1990.

Okay. So John Gary explains to me, everybody kind of knew it, but one time he told me he made an introduction, he was selling his fish to a fish market. And I remember when he told me the story, he told me, when you're buying something from blank fish market, he's got his thumb on the scale, he said. When you're selling something to blank fish market, he's got a finger under the scale, but it ain't his thumb.

Yeah. And he went like that. For you people at home, I'm raising my middle finger up. Michigan hello. But that's not the nice Michigan hello. So John Gary turned me on to this scam he had going. We went out and dipped dip one time we went out and dipped 40 gallons of smell. And that was a crime? No. Oh, okay. It was smelt season.

Tell me when we get to the crime. What happened as soon as we dipped them, I sold them to the guy. Buck a gallon. Uh huh. Which, which we were like, we went out, smelt dipping, he burned a bunch of gas, getting to pent water. And all of a sudden we sold 40 gallons of smelt for a buck a gallon. That's illegal. Okay. Okay.

We're like dumb rednecks. So he then, the guy says, well, here's what else I'm looking for. And he wanted snapping turtles. You could get a commercial license at that time for turtles for like next to nothing. I just figured that since you could get a commercial license, it must be okay. So I set the trap in turtles big time. How'd you trap them? I made my own cage traps out of hog wire. I'd make traps double doors sometimes, sometimes single door. I'd bait them with, you guessed it, John Gary's fish heads. John Garrett frees all of his smallmouth heads. I would

take the smallmouth heads. I'd bait turtle traps and I'd start trapping turtles like a mofo. And this guy was buying them for me a buck a pound dressed. The turtle? Yep. Okay. So all I had to do was he wanted everything attached to the plastron. He wanted everything attached to the lower shell. He wanted the top shell and the guts gone. So if you had a 10 pound turtle, what did he weigh after he was dressed?

You know what, it wound up being, I can't remember what he paid me, but it wound up being the turtle's worth about 10 bucks. Uh-huh. Yeah, I can't remember. I feel like I was going to say a buck a pound, but a turtle's about 10 bucks. Yep. But I had some giant turtles. I caught a 30 pounder one time, but I sold that to a different guy. Okay. But yeah, I was just law breaking. The thing is, I never would have gotten a Lacey Act violation because it was all in-state. Terrible. What did these guys do with the turtles? They just sold them locally?

He would sell anything. He would buy anything on the black market that he could have a plausible explanation for how he got it. So you had tribal, in the Great Lakes, you had tribal fisheries for walleye, you had tribal fisheries for yellow perch, you had tribal in the Great Lakes you had tribal fisheries for walleye You had tribal fisheries for yellow perch. Okay, you had tribal fisheries. He could buy bluegill from aquaculture places He could buy snapping turtle from aquaculture places So and he'd buy anything that he could have and it wouldn't be crazy that he had it He wasn't gonna buy largemouth bass fillets off here cuz people like where the hell did you get largemouth bass place from? Okay So what year was that photo you think? 90. 90, 91. Head to YouTube. You'll want to see, I love that picture of Steve. He totally said it. Can I say one last little tidbit? Yeah.

We had a big storage. If you go down from there, like Looker's Nut Sack, like down below the picture, we have this storage area that my dad made us build one summer out of out of block and I said when I catch turtles I'd put them in there until I had a bunch to clean them and one time I my left the door open fuck turtles everywhere like a lot of a made a break for it and got into our lake and there's turtles just went the wrong direction but it was surprising how well those turtles never haven't been there, new, downhill, gone. Did you catch other kinds of turtles doing this too? No, only snappers man. You know I could get all kinds of

turtles in there. And it was really good, like it was lights out, like season would open June 15th, it was lights out for a month. Later Michigan went in and changed the opening of turtle to July 15, which it sits now. It's hard to catch a turtle from mid-July on. It lights out June 15. Yeah, if you're listening to this, you'll wanna head to YouTube. You can see Steve's photo from 1990 when he was a criminal.

My picture from college in 2012 and Yanni's Anna Lopontan picture from 1997. Can I tell you one last thing about John Gary? Last thing. After I sold my first book I felt like I was loaded and I was over at John Gary's, he was old, and John Gary made a deal with me and I didn't take it seriously but it was a serious deal. We're sitting in his house and he said I will sell you this house and everything inside of this house down to my shoes for $75,000. The deal is I keep it till I'm dead.

He was serious because he wanted money to be able to travel. How long did you think about this offer? A bit, but I didn't think about it seriously enough. Then later he passed away and the house sells for $700,000, several hundred thousand dollars on the beach. What could have been? I remember that detail right down to my shoes and he pointed to his shoes. $700,000 several hundred thousand dollars is on the beach. Well, it could have been, I remember that detail right down to my shoes. And he pointed to his shoes. You could have had his shoes, everything 75 grand.

He wanted it in cash. All right. That was throwback Thursday. Moving on, joining us on the line last is Mitchell black, a journalist from the post and courier newspaper. He's been covering the story of how 43 female monkeys escaped a research facility in South Carolina, Mitchell, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you doing? Thanks for having me. Doing good. First thing, tell us about the facility that these monkeys escaped from. Sure. So Alpha Genesis, it's a primate

breeding and research facility in Yemesie, South Carolina. And if you don't know where that is, that is sort of on the southeastern corner of the state, what a lot of people might think of as a nerdic country. And so this facility, they primarily breed monkeys to be sold to the government and to private companies for testing. And they also perform tests themselves. They have a few different locations around the low country and in the MSC itself, they've got close to 7,000 monkeys. The town has a thousand people. So it's like a six to one monkey to town person ratio over there.

So, you know, a lot of monkeys in that facility and, you know, people can see them from the road and cages. It's part of living in MC is having these monkeys around. And what purpose do these monkeys serve? So it's a little bit, the facility is contracted for breeding. So you know these monkeys are bred and then sold to different companies and the government for science and testing. And then they also perform some research on themselves. And if you look at some of the work the company's done, they talk about how they use the monkeys for studies in vaccine development, therapeutic

drug therapies, and some surgical procedures. We're still looking to learn a little bit more about the specifics there. One important thing to note is that these monkeys, per their CEO, they're juveniles. So they're too young to be tested on, which is one of the reasons that they say that people shouldn't be all that scared, but they should still steer clear because monkeys can be skittish

and they'll just scamper off in the trees if you end up trying to give it a big old hug. All right, tell us about the escape. How did it come to be that 43 monkeys got loose in town? Sure. So it was in the middle of the day, the day after election day. And so while people are still learning about what the results are of the election, a caretaker went into a facility in Yemcee and they were cleaning their enclosure and they left the

doors unsecured. And there was a jailbreak. 43 ima'unkis out the door and a lot of them have been hanging out in the area right by the facility But you know, there are some reports of a monkey five miles down the road. Whoa a few a few days into It took a few days for the facility to start to Bring the monkeys back into the fold because it was raining down here and the monkeys kind of hunkered down in the trees.

That made it difficult for them to catch, you know, because they just didn't want to get wet. And how many have they caught so far then? It's been about 10 days or so since it's happened. It's been, it's been, yeah, it's been eight days. And so they've caught, they've caught 35 monkeys. There's still eight that are on the loose. And trying to learn about where exactly the O's are.

I'm not sure if they're by the facility or if they're elsewhere. But residents are instructed to call the police if they have a monkey sighting. As a reporter, we're always sort of looking at different announcements from the police department and police reports. You see things like traffic accident, okay, there's a break-in, okay. And so we're looking and we get an email from one of the local law enforcement agencies a week or so ago. It's like, you know, all these monkeys have been broken out of the facility. Well, you know, that's a story. So, you know, we start making calls and here we are a week or so later. Is the climate suitable for those monkeys? Like, is it plausible that if you just

left them alone, that they would find not only the right temperatures, but food sources, you know what I mean? Could you feasibly have a feral population of monkeys in this area? Well, so there is an island where a lot of these monkeys live just off the coast there. What I'll say is that these monkeys, they're Rhesus macaques and they're typically found in South Asia, but they have been living in captivity and have been dependent on people feeding them. So it's hard to say whether or they could just simply exist in the wild, given that they've been living

in cages for most of their life. Yeah, but I mean, outside of these individual monkeys' particular skill sets, what I mean is, is the climate in South Carolina suitable for the monkeys or are they freezing their asses right now? Well right now, right now it's pretty warm but it's getting colder at night.

So it's still pretty warm right now. I don't own, in terms of like me walking around, it's not quite at, you know, Mitch is freezing his ass off temperature yet. So, you know, trying to, not completely sure if they are, you know, how they are going to do in colder temperatures, but you know, that's another good question. In just a second, Mitchell is going to tell us about how they are going to do in colder temperatures, but you know that that's a another great question. All right in just a second Mitchell is going to tell us about how they have

captured 35 of the 43 monkeys, but Steve you're a trapper if you were tasked with catching these 43 monkeys how would you do it? Oh man I got no idea I don't know enough about them. Where would you start though what do you think? Live traps, I imagine. Yeah, live traps and maybe Mercer Lawing's Bobcat cages and you'd have to put the mechanism, you could figure that little sucker in there with his fingers. You'd have to put the trigger mechanism up against some wall so he can't fiddle with that. But yeah, I'm not that into monkeys, to be honest with you.

Mitchell, how are they doing and how have they caught the 35 monkeys so far? Yeah, so they're using these traps that are called have a heart traps. So they are one of these things where if you think of like a cage that has an opening and closure and then sort of a swinging door

and they have food on the other side. The monkey walks into the cage, tries to get the food, door swings closed and that's what they're using. The other part of it is that a lot of monkeys are around the facility and they're just kind of hoping that they return home. You know, there is actually another estate. Yeah, there is another estate. I'd be like, don't do it. He's like, I want to get back to that place where they're going to experiment on me. Uh huh. And I got to live in that little box. There are a lot of people who are waiting in here, and it's not uncommon to see on social media people saying, let them be free.

And this this facility has a history of similar incidents, right? Mm hmm. Yeah. So there was another split, if you will, in 2016 when 19 monkeys escaped from the facility. And but they returned home six hours later. Twenty six monkeys left the facility also in 2014. And actually earlier this year, not related to this facility, but a few miles up the road, there was a monkey who's someone's pet who got out and was wandering around the streets of Walterboro, which is in the area in Colton County. And so that had led to a multiple old day monkey hunt.

They were not trying to kill the monkey, of course, but attempt to try to bring monkey back to its owners. So there's been a lot of monkey escapes down here, a lot of monkey coverage going on. All right, last question here, Mitchell. What is the community's attitude toward the whole thing? Are they angry? Are they amused? Are they scared? so You know

There are some people who live and in places where they've got like a cat who comes into their backyard You know or you know in some other places, they'll have deer or bears. That's sort of the attitude. The deer, the bear, they come in, and you sort of get used to seeing them. That's sort of the attitude that locals have about these monkeys. It's not uncommon for people to say, oh, I saw them in a tree. Oh, there was a few years back where I saw a monkey sort

of traipsing through my yard. And so there's a little bit of amusement, but also frankly, this is a small town and it's a big facility. And so it does a lot to contribute to the economy. So there's a little bit of amusement, but I wouldn't say that a lot of the anger that we've heard, which are, you know, typically coming from animal rights organizations,

that's not as much coming from the locals that we've spoken to. All right, Mitchell, you can follow his coverage on the post and courier newspaper. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, Mitchell. Thanks, Mitchell. I tell you what, if my kids caught one of those monkeys and I told them what was going to happen to that monkey if we brought it back home, that monkey's coming to live with us. There's no way. You have a pet monkey. Oh yeah, there's no way they would do that. You guys on the podcast talked to somebody about monkey

facilities. Yeah, because they're trying to open more of these monkey breeding farms. And locals, that's the main thing I'm thinking about right now, because this is a hot issue in Florida. Is that where this was happening? This was South Carolina, but there's Georgia and Texas. That's where they're trying to open. Anyways, they're trying to make, because there's a real shortage of these research monkeys. So they're trying to open new monkey farms.

And locals are pissed. Yeah. And now the locals are going to be able to use this. Sure. Right. And turn around and be like, such as what's going on over there. That's what we're talking about. We don't want that. That's a level of NIMBY not in my backyard that I'd be comfortable with. I don't need a monkey in my backyard. Really? Are you really worried about like, what's going to happen? Worry. Like? They just said they just go right back to the facility after a week. Yeah, I'd rather be in Texas It's a good spot for it. Yeah, I don't know man. I

Don't know my neighbor was raising monkeys. I don't know I'd hope they got away All right, that brings it like Monkeys in my yard that brings us to the end of the show Phil. Let get some final list that's the end of the show that's the end of the show we're gonna get some finalist and feedback you want to keep going yeah hey last call for questions so it's like little sparse on on questions the more specific the better to you we're getting a lot of like hey any hunting tips don't do that a little more specific but this question is that provider outdoors whether from the cookbook or not,

you guys have a favorite antelope recipe. I'd use, if you look at our cookbooks, we, instead of saying it's a mule deer recipe, it's a whitetail recipe, we do like horned and antlered game. I don't, this isn't quite answering the question, I wouldn't worry about what it is. I would treat it like horned and antlered game. If there's a great venison recipe you like, if there's a great moose recipe you like, hell if there's a great lamb recipe you like, I would make that recipe. I would not care what it was. The cut of the animal and the recipe

matter more than what the animal was. When it comes to that. Just the other night, I cooked up the fresh backstrap from that big old whitetail buck I just killed in Wisconsin by slicing the backstrap into roughly, I don't know, half inch, three quarter inch slices, pounding them lightly, salting and peppering them, then dusting them in flour, and then pan frying them

in a light quarter inch of oil and a little bit of butter in there. Then I made a nice pan gravy, had some potatoes and asparagus in the oven and Pour it all over it. I did it with whitetail, but I'm sure that it would be delicious With the backstrap from a pronghorn as well Yeah, any venison recipes on our website are gonna work just fine to be more specific Danielle Pruitt has an antelope sausage recipe on the meat eater comm where she really leans into the sage

Flavor profile which a lot of folks say that antelope meat tends to taste like. I think when people taste that it's because they were like quartering it up in the field and laid the hind quarter. Yeah. That's an oily plant. Brayden Steve's or scratch that reverse it. Steve Braden is asking what's the hardest part of writing a book? Right in it

There's a quote I guess it might have been garrison keeler had this quote someone had this quote that writing a book is like driving at night You can only see as far as what is illuminated by your headlights But you keep driving and driving and driving and driving and driving and driving and driving and driving and driving and driving. And finally you get there. That's your experience as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Tori is wondering the weirdest thing you've ever used as bait for fishing. That's what I would like to have used as bait.

And what I've used as bait. to have used this bait? I don't know what I've used this bait. I've leaned into the weird catfish baits before for channel cats and flatheads. Soap, that was a sexy one about 15 years ago while outdoor magazines would talk about it. It has a strong scent. You think about if you'd have soap and water,

you watch the sort of this oil skim. Anything with like, you take a hunk of meat and soak it in cherry Kool-Aid That's been something that was heavily promoted for catfish baits So doing the the weird things like that using like a Kool-Aid marinade or soap for catfish Yanni anything weird not that I can remember Yeah, I've got nothing now if it was trapping bait weird. Not that I can remember. Yeah I've got nothing. No if it was trapping bait. Phil what else you got? Here's something you can either set the record straight on or agree with but Pippin says what's the meat eaters thoughts on the deer

population in the northern part of Wisconsin? It seems the lack of deer is correlated to the wolf population according to the locals. Any insight? There's no way it's not impacting that. I mean, they eat seven pounds of meat a day. It's like, of course it's having an impact. Is it the only thing? Certainly not. Is it a thing? Yeah. That's all I got to say about it.

Perfect. Spencer, someone just asked if someone can win the trivia question of the week more than once, trying to find that one, but, um, if I, I don't, yeah, they can. Sure. Yeah. He's trying to point out that he's won it. I don't, I don't see, I don't recognize names that I've seen before often enough.

Um, so yeah, if you're someone who hasn't sent me a hundred emails I that could certainly happen again. Yes Anything else Phil? I think I think we're good. Okay. This is our longest show yet. I think that We had a lot of moments where someone would declare hey, do we have a moment where I can talk about this? So it made it you said yes longer than normal. That's right. What would happen if I didn't say yes, I Said okay, and that's it. I said don. What would happen if I didn't say yes? I would say okay. And that's it? I said don't try to talk when I'm doing something. Okay.

Well, glad I didn't shut him down. That brings us to the end of this week's episode of Mead Eater Radio Live. We'll see you back here same time and place in seven days. Thanks everybody. Thanks for watching. Love you. We've got a new book coming out in the meat eater universe and for the first time it is not one of mine.

Instead it's my colleague Danielle Pruitts. Yeah, Danielle, the founder of Wild and Whole. It's called Meat Eat of Wild and Whole. It's called Meat Eaters Wild and Whole. Seasonal recipes for the conscious cook and it's an ode to cooking seasonally with wild and foraged ingredients. Now let's get to what you'll find in this book. This cookbook contains more than 80 recipes inspired by what you can hunt, fish, forage or grow in your garden each season. Often Danielle will pair her ingredients

to reflect both the hunting season and the growing season. So her turkey cutlet is combined with springtime morels. Her Gulf Coast redfish with summertime sweet corn. She cooks venison with pumpkin for a tasty fall stew. If that all sounds complicated, trust me it is not complicated. Danielle has a knack for creating recipes worthy of a five-star kitchen but accessible to two-star cooks. And you'll come away armed with techniques that will make you a better

cook all around. This book is also beautiful to look at with gorgeous full color photographs that inspire you to take a real hard look at your kitchen's output. It's Meat Eaters Wild and Whole Seasonal Recipes for the Conscious Cook by Danielle Pruitt. It is out now and it's available at TheMeatEater.com or wherever books are sold.