The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 632: Putting Up Coyotes

Episode Date: December 2, 2024

Steven Rinella talks with Brody Henderson, Randall Williams, Phil Taylor, and Corinne Schneider.  Topics discussed: How you pronounce “coyote”; a machete with handles on both ends; ninja throwing stars; MeatEater's Cyber Monday Sale; the little dentist hunting club; speech and debate; fighting babies; don’t “Skip the Flip”; issues around hunting deer with hounds; Steve Rinella’s “Rough Cuts” episode on rattling’ bucks down in Texas; how Steve wants to explain what carpetbagging is; more on reciprocity and how to leave your outside shoes at the door; ass chap over not being able to pay the resident hunting license fee for a state in which you’re not a resident; Doug’s place and Asian lady beetles; and more.   Outro song "Ode to Panfish and Squirrel" by Judge Holden Connect with Steve and The MeatEater Podcast Network Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

From Thursday, November 21st to Monday, December 2nd, take advantage of Black Friday sales from First Light, FHF, Gear, Phelps Game Calls, Dave Smith, Decoys, and The Meat Eaters Store. With discounts up to 50% off, it's a great time to stock up on some of our best-selling Merino base layers, as well as all of your Western and Whitetail apparel needs. Don't miss out on the biggest sale of the year and head over to firstlight.com. That's F-I-R-S-T-L-I-T-E dot com. This is the Meat Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case, underwear-less. We're going to hunt. The Meat Eater Podcast. You can't predict anything.

The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting for elk, First Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at firstlight.com. F I R S T L I T E.com. Welcome to the show. Today, Corinne is among other things. Well, no, she's only doing one thing. Among other things that will happen on today's show is Corinne.

You will be able to listen To Corinne unless you're on YouTube then you can watch it happen. Does she got a camera at her Phil? Yeah, you'll be able to listen to and or watch Corinne flesh her first coyote Huge flaws Like a homemade ulu there this is Oolu, I did not make this. I'll tell you about it in a minute. All right. Corinne, did you grow up calling them coyotes? Wiley.

Okay. Now that you've got one, you'll switch. I found that people that say coyote have likely gotten one and people that say coyote haven't. I say coyote. Does that track? That tracks. I say coyote, does that track? That tracks. I code switch. There's a number of tools here that she's gonna be doing.

I'm reluctant to let her use this. This is a Daxter, this is a awesomable draw knife or fleshing knife, you might call it a Necker knife. This is a good way for you draw knife or fleshing knife. You might call it a necker knife. This is a good way for you to put a hole in that. Right, which I don't want to. But I'm gonna let you use the backside. So this is your cutting edge. Okay?

This is your pushing edge. You're allowed to use the pushing edge, because the cutting edge you'll have to spend more time figuring out on. And for listeners, it's a 16 inch blade with a draw knife. Handles at both sides? You better get yourself a new metal tape. Kind of looks like a machete with a handle on both ends. No it don't. It's like a ninja sword.

Yeah, it's a ninja sword. A katana. Cut it in half and put a handle on the other end of the blade. Katana. Is that what they call them? Oh, that's the traditional. Yeah. Yeah. That curved blade. Yeah. You know what I highly recommend for parents speaking of ninja swords is, um, none chucks. No, man, we have more fun throwing stars. We buy ninja throwing stars. You can't buy them on Amazon. You have to go to ninja supply houses, but we go to online ninja supply houses and buy ninja throwing stars

There is nothing more fun. Did you ever make a mad about cheap metal? We never could make anything that was as good as what you know, I'm still fun But man kids safe ones at Costco now the throwing stars. No Sorry, but are they made out of Velcro or something? I Couldn't tell you what they're made out of plastic things it's not throwing star I'm talking eight in the shape of a star we like seven and eight point yeah for a star ninja throwing star a four-point ninja throwing star means that half time it don't do anything you get an an eight point ninja throwing star,

that son of a bitch is gonna stick. There's a big block of wood, big round of wood out. Yeah, we took a big slab of cottonwood and I hung it from chains. So you know like a swing set has those angled supports like saw leg style things. I put an S or an eyeball up on that, on the saw horse legs of the swing set.

I put an eyeball so I could suspend a cottonwood stump. They dry out and fall apart, but you put that cottonwood stump up. And then next very important step. Oh, that is such horseshit. Yeah. What? Come on. Kids safe. It's like a Nerf bow. Yeah. So, no. The next step that's very important is you take all these throwing stars you just purchased and you spray paint them blaze orange.

I was just gonna ask if you had any get sucked up in your laundry. One is like MIA and it's blaze orange. Oh, you don't like put up a carpet backstop or something? No, I paint them blaze orange. One, I'll never understand what happened to it. We've taken the metal detector, we can't find it. Blaze orange, ninja throwing star missing.

Do they practice from different positions? You know, like kneeling? No, I've showed them, you know, we do it like you hold it, like you're pinching it between your thumb and the main knuckle on your forefinger, and I was telling them that in ninja movies I don't really know what the move is, but they kind of got like a Yeah, they're like they kind of got like that. It's like they're doing. I don't know they got their fingers out Spider-Man style It's like this it's like yeah

They're like they're like palming it almost and then they is that what they're doing yeah That's it. I don't know how that's cool. Oh, they're palming it. Yeah, and then it's sort of like a frisbee move I think like a discus. Yeah Or there's between the fingers, but I think that's more for style than substance Yeah, I remember there was a ninja movie and they were near training They had that string with a weight on the end and you'd have to pin that string man But the problem is you're never gonna kill anybody with a ninja throwing star end and you'd have to pin that string, man. But the problem is you're never going to kill anybody with a ninja throwing star. And this is coming from a guy that owns some. The old movies like dude would get hit and he'd just fall over dead. Oh yeah.

Yeah. Right in the chest. What would really happen if you hit someone with a ninja throwing star, they're going to go, Oh Jesus. That's probably what you, that's probably, yeah. I've got a one inch cut. I love what else? What else? The other two we have here is Tyler Freel who's been on the show before made this Ulu knife you know it's cool as shit so I'm holding up a Ulu knife right now that he made he said it in Antler single bevel man we, this project I'm working on that I haven't been able to talk about what it is, we were, we actually filmed with Metin Aron from the Kent

State Archaeological Experiment Lab and he made an ulu with an obsidian blade. Sweet. And you see that and hold that in your hand and you immediately understand the evolution of the ulu knife. Does it have a handle or it's just a chunk of rock? No, it's got the same handle and a batted end to it as a big obsidian blade. And you're like, oh, that's where ulu's came from.

100%, man. Crim might be using this ulu, I don't know. I don't know what she's, I don't know what. There's like meat over here. You're not gonna get that off. What if I, okay. It didn't matter, like pretend that I. Don't take that off, don't take that off.

Let me explain where we're at on this coyote flushing project. I, okay. Stu Miller, the fur handler and trapper, Stu Miller, I flush some coyotes with Stu Miller. Stu Miller traps in Southern Illinois, he flushes his coyotes down clean, clean, clean, down to the leather. I was curious about how,

like, because I hear different ways, and like Mercer Lawing would not flesh them all the way down. I asked Mercer, I said, how clean do, when you send it into a tannery, not for the fur trade, but you do it the same way. So this is fur trade or not. Well, as we're talking, can they see that coyote that's on that board?

Yeah. That coyote on the board, for instance. That's prepared in a way that would be suitable for the fur trade, or it would go to a tannery. Just like that, off the board. And I asked Mercer, I'm like, hey, if you're sending the cow out to the tannery, how clean do you flush it?

And he had the brilliant idea of, he said, why don't you call the tannery? Hmm, never would have occurred to me I called the tannery I said how do you like coyotes they said excess fat excess muscle and did they give you a new I knew what they meant well what do they mean what I'm having her no I'm saying like why do they mean? What I'm having her do right now. No I'm saying like why do they prefer them that way? So you don't over do it? I think that you're taking it all off and now they have these wheels, these kind of like, they have these wheels that they can thin the leather with anyway if they need to.

But there's gotta be other critters where you're trying to get actually. There's a lot of stuff that's clean. A raccoon is clean. Right. Yeah. Like a muskrat you leave the saddle. Like right now Corinne's on the saddle. Pinch that little thing there. That's like a saddle. Just cut the, take the, take the, take this flat tail. The final tool. An MKC flat tail. Made by a man who sat right where Brody's sitting one time. Take the flat tail and cut that way like you're cutting the diaphragm out of a deer and you've gotten it.

That's kind of a weird way you're doing that. Do you want me to like peel it off or just? No you got it. You got it. That's the saddle. On a muskrat you leave the saddle on, on a mink you leave the saddle on, on a red fox you leave the saddle on, on a raccoon the saddle comes off, beaver clean, nothing gets left on. Right. You know, in a coyote I think they used to do them clean but they told me don't do it clean. Hmm. So that little membrane there, but you see down when she gets down by the the teats. Yeah, that's a female, right? Oh, she just put a damn hole in it. No, not yet. Not yet.

Okay. Damn it. Excess fat and excess meat, Karim. Cameras are rolling. Perfect. This is the worst case scenario for someone doing this to a coyote for the first time. How so? Good animal.

A lot of pressure. Got you at the table and three cameras pointing at her. The Meat Eaters Cyber Monday sale. This is your last chance. This is your last chance to take advantage of the Cyber Monday sale. First light FHF gear Phelps game calls Dave Smith decoys and the Meat Eater store. Okay, it shuts off at 11 59 p.m. What time zone? Like if you're gonna get that specific, oh, it probably rolls.

It probably rolls. Yeah. Yeah, and hey Corinne, you've got no mics. You gotta use your outside voice whenever you say it. I think it would depend on your IP address. Now 11.59 tonight, don't be trying to shop at midnight too late 50 up to 50% off until 1159 tonight I would like challenge someone to try make a purchase

at 1159 in 30 seconds and by and by tonight we mean December 2nd Is that what this is Correct Monday to December 2nd Monday December 7 and 59 Mountain Time up to 50% off first light gear So like it's corn. Yeah first light gear fhf gear Feltz game calls Dave Smith decoys Go to first light comm do all your shopping there. Have we covered our tools? Yeah, we got the Ule knife, we got the flat tail.

What's that black handle thing there? Oh, little honer. I got you. Little honer. So there's that. Lot of feedback. This is one of those things that continues. Oh, I was gonna say something else.

What the hell was I gonna talk about? Wasn't as Tomo No trapping our first off don't shop at 1159 don't shop at 1159 No Don't get them wet. Don't feed them after midnight. Don't take too much stuff off the coyote the saddle f'd up shitter's calendars no of course a great account of course a good company man here it's a great calendar there today I was talking about an ad I dreamt up

about the calendar with Santa Claus in it mm-hmm I might have to walk that one up the ladder if you're cool with that. No, it's a phenomenal idea. Randall needs to play Santa. I would love to. Yeah, perfect. I would love to. Consider it done. On a recent episode, we got a lot, the feedback keeps coming. I remember there was a, there's been other subjects in the history of the show where it just kind of kept going. You know, you like, you cover something and then there's feedback and you cover the feedback and the feedback is feedback. Sometimes for years. And it reverberates, it becomes what might be called a feedback loop, a feedback.

And it never ends. And then I'll say, this is it. And then a while later we'll cover it more. And eventually it'll die. So here we go again. On the show, we covered pre-chewing food for your children, in particular, that when our kids, we have three of them, when our kids would get to be nine months old,

I would chew up deer meat, and then I'd give them the chewed up deer meat, and they would eat that, and I would say, ha, his first thing ever was that deer meat, or something to that effect. And we're talking about pre the chewed up deer meat and they would eat that and I would say ha his first thing ever was that deer meat or something to that effect and we're talking about pre chewed deer meat and We had follow-up from Durkin Pat Durkin talking about Eat pre chewed meat our kids all ate pre chewed meat and we have some feedback including feedback from a

And we have some feedback including feedback from a DDS what does that mean? Dr. Randall? It's dentist. We have a doctor of dental surgery science Well, Joe Dennis all kind of stick together in a weird little way Well, I mean does that surprise you doctor of dental? So you guys remember we had it my it, my dentist came on the show. Yeah, great guy. I wasn't here that day. Goat killer. Yeah, mountain goat killer.

Well, maybe I was here. I have the only dentist in America who's killed 10 mountain goats. Well, cause he grew up in Southeast Alaska. They'd get off school and go goat hunting. It's like hunting back 40 for mountain goats. Yeah, like how you might go hunt for an evening for white tails.

When he was growing up, you'd go hunt goats after school uh only dennison america like that he came on the podcast i can't remember if he won he did really yeah he won yeah i believe he won in overtime actually and he just fixed my daughter's hockey helmet really it's like he's trying to one-up me was with did he have another man's daughter's hockey did he have to use a particular dental instrument to do that or is he just no a helmet guy he texted me and let me know he fixed my daughter's sports you know and he's also a doctor and then we know how Steve feels about that yeah so he's all built up now he thinks he's the man yeah he's a doc he's a dentist he fixed my daughter's hockey helmet Keep your hands off my daughter's hockey helmet. Did he first say something was wrong with the helmet?

Like hey, let me see that helmet something's wrong with it. We've been aware of a slight problem with her helmet for a year Okay missing a screw that holds the face mask on I always think I'm gonna replace that screw and then once he tried to one Up me I did I went and replaced it last night and I asked him if he wanted a screw back and he texted me the did the dot to which I followed up you guys want to come for dinner on Monday and he said he does great then you guys can have your little argument about I'm gonna take him aside and I'm gonna be like what's with you trying to fix my daughter's hockey than he made the last time. Because if she gets into an accident, her jaw is coming off her face. So he can see that. That was graphic.

Yeah. Yeah, I guess that's true. You can see that he wouldn't fix it, hoping that something bad would happen. Hockey players are known to have problems with their teeth. It's like a collision repair guy, you know, saying, hey, you ought to replace those tires. If he was unscrupulous, he'd just leave it alone.

But now I'm starting to like the guy all over again. I liked him before I got all wound up on this subject. Now I'm back to liking them. Tighten your lug nuts. So the hell was I saying? Oh, how they stick together. So he came on the podcast and we just point out, he's the dentist, he's on the podcast.

Well, guess what? Other dentists Contact him to offer him hunting permissions. Oh, it's like a little like Dennis like hunting club I've not heard from a history PhD offering me anything of value. He got hunting Yeah, he get hunting invites. He got hunting invites off it for being a dentist. That's pretty solid. Because you know what, they're like, you know what, buddy, I understand. All we do is make children cry. Why don't you come out and hunt my place? Yeah. You know, they've been through it together. Anyways, a guy wrote in a DDS, a dentist wrote in, um, given his two cents on

pre-chewed food. And he was pointing out, which seemed to me to be totally reasonable. He was pointing out that the quicker you can get a little kid chewing, chewy foods, not super process, ultra processed foods, which are all, if you think about it, ultra processed foods are all soft. Chewing real whole foods, that's a two-handed draw knife. I just don't want,

I'm being so delicate here. Pre-chewed foods. Pre-chewed, he was saying that you got, that a child, he was saying a child needs to ex, needs to have resistance training in his jaw. The same way that you get, you know, other exercise muscles. So he said, the quicker you get your child resistance training his jaw, he'll get a beefy good job. And as people switch to those little tubes that you squeeze your food out of, which their consumption has gone up 800% we were pointing out, but Brody pointed out, anything that gets invited, anything that gets invented has seasoned explosion and growth because it didn't wasn't there before. Yeah, like cell phones. Yeah, there's been a skyrocket since the 1950s.

Yeah, and when it came out with those shoes that have five toes on them, usage skyrocketed. Yeah, 800 percent. Among other things. usage skyrocketed. Yeah. 800%. Among other things. Uh, so he had that say, now another guy wrote in and he's trying to, okay, he says this, I'm just gonna let him speak for himself. In episode six 20, this is from a gentleman named Matt Matthew. Matthew says, hi me eater. In episode six 20, a max care, that was was the DDS's name, letter was referenced in the discussion regarding pre-chewed food. As Matt flaunted his DDS, I feel obligated to mention that I am an exercise

physiologist and nutritionist. I wonder if they stick together. Do they get PhDs? What does that mean? I don't know how you credential that. Can you look it up? Like could I just could I have one by the end of the day? No, I don't think so. I'm guessing it's probably a master's degree. Well, that's what he is. He's an exercise physiologist nutritionist. He goes on. He is very unhappy with what this guy said. He goes on.

The idea that a baby needs resistance training for the jaw for appropriate mandibular development is like saying they need to do pushups so they can crawl on time for, for nearly all healthy infants, their rate of development all gets washed out by the time they are two. It's just silly fear-mongering that folks use to support their ideology and sell whatever they are selling. Probably the most flawed of these is the statement that breastfeeding is superior to formula. Getting the controversial idea. I have a feeling this feedback. I've heard that breastfed babies are more snuggly.

I don't know if that's true. He goes on, probably the most flawed of these is the statement that breastfeeding is superior to formula. Funny how he neglects to mention the millions of lives saved by the advent of formula. These correlations are drawn from the predominance of poor nutrient profile in most commercial formulas, they are not causal in any way. For example, if a mother is breastfeeding, but she is an alcoholic, is that going to be better? Is that going to better support development than a mother who canned breastfeed and is using a whole fat high quality formula? Of course not. I, I, I, a little bit take it. It's a little, it's a little, cause let me give you an example. Let's say

I said, let's say I said, I'm not feeding my baby at all. And they're like, well, that's terrible. And I said, well, or I'll feed it mercury. Right. What's better now do you know I'm saying I was like I can honestly say that's the first time the image of someone feeding an infant mercury has ever crossed my now if they're bottle feeding them he's going to like why he's going like way out there I take his point though that that like, if most formulas are poor nutrition, you'd, you know, there's a point to be made there, but it doesn't mean that formula by default is. So yes. Is it, okay. Is it better? I agree. Who could argue this? That he's, he's, he's saying this, what's better a whole fat high quality formula or mother's milk from a drunken alcoholic? Let me think about that one. But we're talking about, yeah,

the whole thing, we're talking, come on, I Think he's being a little harsh on our guy Max like we're talking about like if you exercise muscle It's gonna get stronger right I mean come on. I like this guy and Max sent us a nice card Corinne. Where's that card? Oh, I know I was gonna talk about now. I shouldn't talk about no, that's it. I should do I want to set it up that way What's this? Oh? Almost threw it on that random ear on the table Matthew this guy does say is mostly joking so we should well I like him I think but this remember I just remember what I was gonna talk about It's something I shouldn't talk about Cuz it's gonna get me in trouble with my wife. Mmm my kid and my kids school. How much trouble minor

Go for it My kid I just had to go to the parents meeting for speech and debate Okay, and I'm down there and and I sitting with my wife. Debating with her? No. Well I did. I was going to say this is like... I sat through the whole parents meeting and I said to her afterward, the second the guy was done talking, we're still sitting there, and I said, I have one of those things for you that you're gonna be annoyed that I said, you're not gonna take it seriously, and you're never gonna give it its due.

And this intrigued her to wanna know what exactly it was, and it was this. I'm like, I don't like any part of this whole thing. Why would you want to train, without knowing these kids, all these kids in high school? They're even talking about parents donating money to support speech and debate. Okay. Mm hmm.

I got to hear more about why you don't like it. Well, I'm going to get there. It's like teaching your kids martial arts. No, I'm getting there. They're going to use it. As someone who. It occurred to me midway through this whole thing. I don't know their ethics and ideology.

Why would I want to spend money training them and being convincing when I don't know what they're gonna try to convince people of? I would spend it in infusing them with my ethics and ideology. And then of those who adopted that, teach them, I would then teach them to be convincing. But how could I just come in to a room of high school kids

and want them all to be convincing when I don't know and I came up with the slogan, today's kids are tomorrow's enemies. That's a good one. And it's like, that's one of your best. It just occurred to me. That's a good one. And it's like... That's one of your best. It doesn't be... It just occurred to me.

And my wife, in fact, did not give it its due. She still hasn't given me what she thinks about the whole complaint. Well, I think the idea is that it's like they're teaching them, they're giving them a template that they can slot in ideology as they get older and form their own opinions. But how do we know... I don't think they're teaching them certain routes to go down. How do we know that we don't take a kid and make them super good at being convincing? And then he comes out and convinces people to do horrible stuff.

Becomes an anti-hunting like, yeah. Oh. And it'd be like, people would be like, my God, how'd he get so good at convincing everybody of that? And I'd be like, Oh, you know, I donated $20 to his speech and debate program. Perhaps I'm to blame. I thought this was going to be one of those scenarios where like the ex pro basketball player is watching his son get coached by a guy who never played pro basketball. That's not how you do that. That's gotta happen.

No, it really, it really shook. It really shook me up. From Thursday, November 21st to Monday, December 2nd, take advantage of black Friday sales from first light. FHF gear Phelps game calls, Dave Smith decoys and the meat eater store with discounts up to 50% off. It's a great time to stock up on some of our best-selling merino base layers as well as all of your western and white tail apparel needs don't miss out on the biggest sale of the year

and head over to firstlight.com that's f-i-r-s-t-l-i-t-e.com can i interrupt for a second how how good are we? Spin it. You're looking very good. Spin it. Spin it. Okay we got to sew that hole with what's called the baseball stitch. Corey can you pull that other mic towards you so we can see the, no, yeah, there you go. You're 100% there. Now you'll see that there's a set nail on the bottom of that stretching board, Corinne, behind you. A double-headed nail on the bottom. There, over here, there are two of these? No.

The bottom of that stretching board. You're pointing to a flushing beam. The one against the wall. But turn your attention to the flushing, to the stretcher. Yeah, so there are two? And you'll see at the bottom of it, there is a double headed nail pull that double headed nail out that will collapse and you can pull that kaiute off that board

make sure there's no thumb tack in it anywhere um how easy does it come out anyways he says so kindly inform max care d. This is the part I like the most. We're back to this. So kindly inform MaxCare DDS that my formula drinking pre-chewed deer meat eating baby would whoop his baby any day of the week. That would be a great show if we had babies come and fight on this table I think you charge pretty penny for tomorrow's enemies yeah and that's where he adds the mostly joking at the end of

that no good you raise good points but you raise good points but you raise good points thank you Matthew uh who who wants to set the we're gonna move up move our attention over to to Virginia well it's kind of a letter that someone wrote in so we'll just tack we'll tackle this whole thing uh my good friend bubbly dog durin who i adore he's got some gripes, he's got some landowner gripage about this next subject. We're talking about deer hunting with hounds. Like personal experience gripage or he just generally makes him uncomfortable? No, no, I gotta explain a thing because I'm a little ahead of myself.

We're gonna move our attention to deer hunting with hounds in Virginia, the debate around that. Now, in the South you can do that, just generally like there's a culture of hound hunting for deer in the South, there's not a culture of hound hunting for deer in the North. In the North it's illegal,

and there's a handful of Southern states. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You remember a podcast episode we had that was called Skip the Flip? We're not skipping the flip. For those listeners at home, he's referring to Corinne's audio. Let's get back to the town thing.

You gotta put them on inside out. Oh. And then you dry them on inside out. Oh. And then you dry them overnight inside out. And then you flip it or else it'll dry to the board. So skip the flip, because Mercer Lawing lives in the Mojave Desert. And he was pointing out that where he lives is so dry that they don't do,

he doesn't need to do the two part dry. He skips the flip and just puts it on hair side out but you need to dry the outside and then flip it so that it doesn't stick to the board and get rotten so it'll flip in the morning Okay. All right. Nose. Yep, you're getting there. How much do we pull it? I like the nose. I don't want to stretch the nose. No, don't stretch. Just snug it up.

Just snug it up on there. You'll get more nose. No. And then go ahead and pin those ears up. So it looks like that one for now. Just pin them up. Yep. Yep. Just give them a light. Don't lay it. Kind of roll it. Don't. Yeah. lay it, kind of roll it.

So yeah, not tight, you don't want to make a lot of surface connection there. Just a light little pinning. Hound hunting for deer, and I know that like, Doug has, where Doug lives is popular, run coyotes with dogs. And Doug has, Doug, I hate to put, I'm dogs. And Doug has Doug. I hate to put, I'm not putting words in his mouth. Um, we'll find out if you're well, Doug has brought up, Doug has brought up the, the difficulty of, uh, in his area, the near impossibility of preventing your

dogs from hunting other people's property. Because you're talking about small farms, right? Yeah. It's like, you know, you got an area of small dairy farms and you turn them out on a coyote the coyote goes wherever he wants The dogs are going wherever the coyote went and you can't really even kind of suggest That you have any control over your dogs being other people's places So you're sitting there deer hunting also

You know here comes everybody's pack of dogs and he says it causes a lot of consternation in this area. There's no rule against letting your dog run on other people's ground. I don't know is that true? No, I'm asking like I would assume it's legal for it like there you're not doing anything wrong if your dog runs a coyote across three or four different properties. Well, I know this in this state that we're sitting in right now. If a dog attacks your livestock, there's no questions asked you can kill that dog for harassing your livestock. Right? So here's a listener feedback. This is from a listener. Yes. Okay.

This is from a listener. Yes, okay. The guy says this, recently my state rejected regulations around the use of dogs for deer hunting, the mandated use of GPS collars and making reasonable effort to ensure dogs can't enter property where owners have requested dogs not be run. I'm torn on this issue because I see it as a slippery slope on both sides. Meaning, okay, so he's saying the state considered but ultimately rejected regulations that would have mandated deer-hound hunters, mandated they put a

GPS collar on their dog so that they know where the dog is and then with using that GPS tracking collar make effort to keep their dogs off of people's property. With a lot of those units you can hit like a callback button that that dog will stop doing whatever it's doing and turn around. He says I'm torn on this issue because I see it as a slippery slope on both sides. On the one hand, I do not run dogs to hunt deer and have had many deer and turkey hunts in recent years disturbed by a pack of dogs running through the properties I can access. Given the limited weekend time I have

to hunt between work responsibilities and small kids, having game run off because of a pack of dogs coming onto a property is frustrating. I can also understand the frustration of property owners who have a pack of dogs run through and disturb their land, their livestock, or the game and habitat on their property. On the other hand, I recognize that hound hunting deer is an important tradition that many people in Virginia, is an important tradition to many people in Virginia, and though I don't run dogs for deer hunting, I have hunted, I have fox hunted with a pack of hounds, a pretty similar practice. I realize that in this way my stance is somewhat hypocritical. Regulations on hunting fox with dogs in places like England have made my state one of the

last... I'm going to edit this a little bit. He's saying that his state is one of the last refuges of the sporting tradition of hound hunting with dogs. What? Fox hunting with dogs. What? Fox one of the last? Fox hunting is also, I got you. I got you. I got, no, no, no, no. He's saying, here's what he's saying. I think he's saying like, Hey man, in places like England, they've regulated the piss out of hunting with dogs, Fox hunting to the point where you basically can't do it.

So he's saying, so with England out of the picture, Virginia has become one of the last places for the sporting tradition of hunting fox with hounds. That's what he's saying. Yep. And he's saying that being able to hunt foxes with hounds is very effective in helping to manage fox and coyote populations. And he says also, just like deer hunting with dogs is constantly under attack, fox hunting is also constantly under attack in Virginia from the usual suspects in the animal rights community. He goes on, I recognize the near possibility

of keeping a large pack of dogs together and off adjoining properties while they are on the hunt. And I realized that hound hunters don't want to give an inch on the deer hunting issue because of the need to guard the gate meaning Deer hound hunters in Virginia are Fighting for the defense of their lifestyle and they're not in the mood to entertain compromises And he says which I fully understand and support

I also personally don't believe that the most recent proposed regulations would be all that effective in keeping a pack of dogs off adjoining properties. So that being said, what do you think can be done in cases like this where hunters are adversely affected by the actions and traditions of other hunters? I do think there is a legitimate question around the rights of private property owners which would benefit me personally, but by regulating one group of hunters in this way aren't we cracking open the door for the slow erosion of other hunting traditions?" Very well put. Yep, that's the problem. Like, you know know it doesn't bother you unless it's affecting you directly right mm-hmm, but then when it affects you directly

It's like you know where does that put you? There's no good answer right like no if I came from otters if I lived on a planet outer space I'll tell my kids the other day that from other planets perspectives we're in outer space. I was gonna say you live on a planet. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. They have a very like them centric worldview.

I was trying to be like you know we're in outer space. If someone is on another planet. If aliens came here we'd be the aliens. They're talking about us being in outer space. Anyhow, if I lived on a planet in outer space and I was totally not, I was like totally rational, but completely unhip to social mores on earth. Follow me. And someone said, Hey man, you know, as a Martian, do you think that someone should be able to take a big pack of dogs and, and the person can't go on the neighbor's place, but he can send his dogs over on that

neighbor's place to chase the deer back over to his place so he can shoot them as a Martian on a tune to not tuned into mores on planet earth. I would be like, no, I don't think you should be able to do that. Yeah. It's called Mars justice. Sounds like a show. Like, like I'm not into any kind of, you know, as a Martian, I'm not into like any kind of long term, like, you know, I mean, I just take face value arguments, right? I don't know the history. Yeah, that makes sense. But I'm not from Mars. I mean, if you had a pack

of dogs screw up your hunt a time or two, it'd be, it'd be hard to have the attitude like I'm going to take one for the team here. Right. I'll put it that Martian thing in another way. Let's say you're setting up a whole new state. Like you got a whole new state and you're in charge of setting up the whole new state and you got to like figure out all the rules. And when this came up and they said well what are we gonna do about like we all agree that you can't go on another guy's land without permission right? And everybody's like oh yeah that's obvious. They go what about if he sends his big

old pack of dogs all around to the neighbor's place and springs all them deer back and then he gets them on his place? What should we do in our new state? There's no tradition. Yeah. There's no tradition part of that. That's what I'm trying to get at with this Martian stuff. There's, I'm not considering tradition. Yeah. I would be like in this state, this traditionless state,

I would say that I don't think you should be able to do that Yeah, but we're not talking about a new state we're talking about a state that has a long tradition of This is like this is like your if days were 48 hours long argument Then why it would be okay to wear the same outfit for those 48 hours? Why I wear my clothes two days in a row if we lived in a completely different reality, then this would be fine. Things would be different. Yes. I mean, this, I think raises the question, like in Montana, we actually did create a

new hound hunting opportunity for black bears recently. And at the time it was proposed, I was a little nervous that going out in the spring, it would be a different experience. And it wasn't like I didn't, it's not like I don't support hound hunting, you know, strain all over the place. Cause this is about private property, buddy. Well, no, I'm, we're talking about tradition and whether we're creating tradition or, or like creating a new opportunity.

And I will say like my concerns about that. You're talking about my new state. Yeah, I was following up that question. Like, I mean, there are instances where it's not just a new state, but there are new traditions being proposed. Understood. And I will say like it didn't change

the spring Blackbird hunt in the way that I thought it might but I got an Answer for this guy just needs a pack of here we go. Yeah, he just needs to get a pack of dogs Problem solved. Yeah, but I do think we can't beat him join us right private property thing is weird because I killed I killed a lion a couple years ago and When the dogs are chasing that lion I killed a lion a couple years ago and when the dogs are chasing that lion, they picked up another lion and some of the dogs went down and treat a cat on private property in like a little subdivision. But in Montana you're allowed to go legally go get your dogs off of... We, I mean we went down and knocked on the door and got the dogs and the cat presumably left the area.

I'm pretty sure Yana said you can go get your dogs. But it was still, I mean, it still feels very uncomfortable, right? I'm kinda like, because I do think if I were that homeowner and I looked out my window and there was like a couple guys pulling their dogs away from a tree and there's a cat up there, like yeah, it's a little weird and I felt funny about it but I've told you know

what you're gonna do I've totally changed my mind now that I thought about it more now if I was setting up a new state and someone brought this up you know what I would think to myself everybody has to have dogs no picture this just let me walk you let me picture a scenario here we're looking at extremes I'm looking at the extreme of the he sends all of his dogs over there he sends like 30 dogs over there to do like an organized drive yeah right and and like strip this guy's property of deer that's an extreme view but picture this picture

little tommy little tomm Tommy Dickinson is hunting rabbits with his beagle on the fence line with old man Morgan mm-hmm so we got little Tommy Dickinson hunting old man Morgan's fence line and he's got his little beagle Patsy Patsy periodically is under the fence cross the fence under the fence, cross the fence, under the fence, cross the fence. What did you do?

Shoot Tommy Dickinson? Or his dog? Shoot Patsy? Is that what you're saying? Shoot him both? Of course not. He can't control Patsy's going over on old man Morgan's place. Yeah.

No one would want to live in a place like this. No. What if that runs out of Morgan's deck And Morgan's on the deck sleeping what if the dog goes into Morgan's house and starts eating his cat's food Then it gets sticky, that's why that's why this is a tricky one because it's a tricky one you'd almost want to make a rule that says like Don't push it. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're a hound hunter, don't push it. Control your dogs. Don't push it. Yeah. Or look, you could kind of train up hound hunters to be like, we're doing a deer push here with our hounds. Knock on some doors in advance, let the landowners know.

Maybe they'll come, I don't know. There's ways to handle this that might make it more palatable to people. Okay, let me hit you with this one then, since we're playing this game. I've talked about this, our rough cut episode, we got a rough cut episode we got a rough cut episode we talked about a bunch where me and Sather Ratlin bucks down in Texas now

we're hunting on a property where they don't do any kind of like food feeding licks mineral licks nothing mm-hmm just got natural water well like dirt tanks for cattle the natural food that's it then I'll lift a finger for the deer First feeding them the neighboring place is a very managed deer property Okay, and they got all the feeders and all that kind of stuff They're putting out like they're like deworming the deer all kinds of but not high fences or they do no no gotcha No, but they're like Take care of deer, managing deer.

We would make a habit of sitting close to that border, rattling, trying to rattle over the big... Those real healthy ones. Trying to rattle over these like high protein mega bucks. Could you make the case, well your sound, Could you make the case where your sound, your sound is coming onto my property, taking my deer? No, you couldn't. Come on, it's a dog versus some ratlin? It's just, if you're setting up a new state,

this is all stuff you got to consider. Yeah. Yeah, I mean mean I that one is I don't think there's any like wrong there but yeah if I was like managing my deer herd and the neighbor just always set up on the property line right? You might put a fence up. Yeah I might put a fence up. That's a big part of growing up though, is whatever place you have permission to hunt on or whatever public land you got. You know the best hunting is right on the edge. Yeah.

You can get permission to be like, some guy's got 300 acres and you look over at that neighbor's place and you're like, I'm gonna sit right on the edge. Yeah. It's gotta be better over there. And the neighbor's thinking the same thing about your place. So history stand is also right on the property.

But you know, but I can only take this new state Mars stuff so far because like there is the tradition thing but the the culture is changing around them yeah let me ask you this they're like holdouts if if this was Virginia yeah let's say a ballot box movement came up to just outlaw hound hunting, deer hound hunting, like what you know something just happened in Colorado. I'd fight it tooth and nail. Okay that's I mean that's what it boils down to. Yeah I'd carpet bag it from out here. Yeah I think like you know that's a reference to Someone throwing some bags in a carpet or carpet in a bag

Reconstruction I know Why'd you act like you're dumb? Because you obviously wanted to explain it Thank you You're like he's gonna explain it no matter why you act like you were dumb because I knew you wanted to're like, he's going to explain it no matter what. Why did you act like you were dumb? Because I knew you wanted to act like you were smart. I had to tee it up.

Thanks, man. Thanks for looking out for me. My reaction to this guy's letter is like, yeah, it's complicated. He sees it from a lot of different ways than I do too. Mm-hmm. I'll propose, I'm gonna propose the most, the only constructive thing I have to say on this thing. I would, if I was a, if I, um, I'm not a deer, hound, hunter in Virginia, but I'm a occasional recreational trapper in Montana. I don't always do just what I, I don't always do what I could.

I don't always do what I could totally because in my mind I'm like yeah you know you could do that you could do that you might get someone real upset mm-hmm but you can do it but I could also do it over there and not have anybody get real upset and sure I could do that but I'm just not gonna do it. Yeah, because I don't want to, you know, I don't, when I sense that I'm doing a thing that like, well yeah, you could, but I shy away from those, those moments, you know, and if I was a deer hound hunter in Virginia, and I thought there's nothing stopping me from hunting. What was his name? The old man? Uh, Morgan Morgan's. I know old man Morgan has asked me a hundred times not to hunt his place on the opening day, but he can't stop me.

Yeah. What's the song going to hunt old man Morgan? I feel like the same way when I'm going gonna go hunt a spot and there's two trucks parked where I wanted to park my attitude isn't like I can do whatever I want yeah it's kind of like damn if I were parked here I wouldn't want someone to pull him behind me no you know I was gonna put decoys on that pond and no one can stop me mm-hmm so move your over. I was going to sit in that tree and there's a guy sitting in this tree. I'm going to sit right next to him. Yeah, I'd say if you're a deer, hound hunter in Virginia, the best way to make sure it sticks around for a while is just show some courtesy and some restraint now and then. Moving on across the country to Arizona.

No, we're not doing this. We're skipping this. remember? Well, no, he's just asking a question. No, no, this is... this is not... Oh, we're skipping this? Yeah, we're skipping this. Should just... yeah. Moving on across the country to reciprocity. The Dakotas. Yeah, moving to the Dakotas. Yeah. But we went to the Dakotas. Kind of across the country, but good across a chunk of it. On a recent podcast episode 617,

if you haven't put this together yet, we're talking about, uh, old podcast episode discussion points. We touched on a thing that states do called Reciprocitycity and I had always known reciprocity only under the interesting little management. I'm struggling here. I had known reciprocity

only in one context. In fur bearer management they use reciprocity to even the playing field from one state to the next according to how their policies toward non-residents. That was a terrible sentence but hear me out. Montana historically has not allowed non-residents to buy a fur harvester license. Okay? So of the species that are lived, or managed as fur-bearing animals, muskrat, mink, otter, beaver, bobcat, okay, they're managed as fur-bearing animals. There was no non-resident opportunity to do do that in Montana. They changed it, but there wasn't. So they

would set, other states would set up a thing called reciprocity, meaning a state would say, we will sell you a non-resident trapping permit if your state would sell one of our residents a non-resident trapping permit if your state would sell one of our residents a non-resident trapping permit and because of reciprocity if you live in Montana you didn't fur trap out of state in a state that practiced reciprocity because like dude you can't prevent like you're preventing our citizens from buying the tags but then you want to come here and buy one of ours? They do the same with license prices too, in some cases. Oh, do they?

I think maybe like you come to a state and pay a thousand bucks for an elk tag. Okay. People from that state come to your state to buy a deer tag and they're going to charge you. I think their examples of- They'll stick it to them. Yeah. Well, the other example that I wasn't aware of is South Dakota had a reciprocity. Was it North or South Dakota had this? South Dakota had a,

no, the spearfishing one. Oh, North Dakota, North Dakota. North Dakota had a reciprocity around spear and pike through the ice. They're like you can spear pike through the ice if a North Dakotan can spear pike through the ice on your place. And I was musing about this reciprocity issue because I was saying let's say Colorado had passed, failed, let's say Proposition 127 had passed in Colorado and suddenly you cannot hunt lions in Colorado. Would a state ever exercise reciprocity to a Colorado resident,

meaning a Colorado resident wants to come to Montana, and they're like, hey, I wanna buy a mountain lion tag. Montana would say, no, because our residents can't hunt mountain lions in your state. Right? I was musing about this, just the issue of reciprocity. And we got some listener feedback from it. A guy writes in, I had the opportunity to tune into the Pop and Corks podcast, that was a name of an episode, where the topic of reciprocity was discussed from a wildlife management perspective. While I

can stack hands, I never heard this expression before, while I can stack hands on the idea of states and their respective agencies dictating reciprocity rules for state managed species, I find it a hard pill to swallow when it comes to the topic of federally managed species, specifically and selfishly waterfowl." He goes on,

why is it that a state such as South Dakota can have a non-resident lottery for a federally managed species? I buy a federal duck stamp which presumably some of this money goes to habitat and conservation activities in the state of South Dakota, among all others. Why then would I not have the same opportunity as a resident?" He goes on, you know, he's not advocating to pay a resident rate, blah blah blah. I don't mean to blah blah blah out of disrespect, but I mean that's the basic idea of what he's saying. What he's overlooking something. Oh, he goes, there's one in another point he makes. This became

more top of mind to me when the limitation of non-resident hunters was brought up with respect to Stuttgart, Arkansas. He says, indeed reciprocity is a slippery slope. Alec, you're overlooking something. Ducks aren't just, they're not just federally managed, they're state and federal, and international. And I also think like the the reciprocity thing is a little more complicated than just treating residents and nonresidents the same. The reciprocity is about one state treating non-residents in their

state and another state treating non-residents to that state in the same way, right? Like, yeah, it's a state having, it's a state having varied attitudes toward non-residents depending on what state they come from and what the rules of that state are. Yeah, so here I'm not clear how the reciprocity, he seems to have more of a complaint with the difference between residents and non-residents. It got him thinking. The reciprocity thing got him thinking. About this. Yeah, okay, just a couple things here before we take on the question.

You're right, there's federal oversight of waterfowl regulations. Waterfowl regulations are jointly managed by the feds and the state. You might say, why the hell is that? Well, think about it, they're migratory, okay, so let's say you had one state that totally shit the bed on waterfowl management and they kill every duck that comes through their state. Well that state is then screwing over other states along the flyway. So there's like some federal oversight meaning these birds aren't stationary.

They move internationally in some cases. I mean there's many birds that are nesting in northern Alaska, they fly all across Canada, they fly over six or seven states, maybe more on the way down, and they ultimately, you know, some of our teal will winter in the Bahamas, we will have ducks that

winter. In Mexico, right, so there's an international bird. So there's international and federal oversight on waterfowl management, but the state still plays a very important role in rule setting and enforcement. And when they look at things like bag limits on ducks, the feds factor in the importance of the state to waterfowl preservation in general, meaning if you're a state that has, that hosts a lot of breeding pairs of birds for a long period of time, you're going

to be treated differently than a state that maybe they only pass through for a month out of the year. All fair? So it's like, it's not just federal, it's federal and state. That's the thing. That's why you gotta have a state waterfall stamp and a federal waterfall stamp. So I don't think the feds are saying, the feds aren't saying, and I got an idea. They're not, they're not going like the feds aren't going. And let's have it be that in South Dakota, non-residents can't hunt. That's not coming from the feds.

That's coming from the state who has management authority. Yeah. What exactly, like, what kind of law are we talking about? Lottery for drawing? They capped, South Dakota's capped, you gotta draw to hunt ducks in South Dakota. I drew it a couple years ago, we went hunting ducks in South Dakota, we drew the permit. Is it a statewide deal or specific areas or? I feel like it's statewide, but I could be wrong, I can't remember.

And then they have different dates too. And it's just a way- They have a resident opener, a non-resident opener. His whole gripe, I think his whole gripe is he's saying, how could you have a thing where there's federal oversight, but you have States making up their own rules. And it's like, I guess the simplest answer is it's not just federal oversight. Yeah. The state South Dakota's Fish and Game Agency is also managing those ducks and geese.

Simple as that. In addition to. Here's another guy on reciprocity. He says, he points out what he's eating. As he writes this, he's eating eggs, chicken, and pomegranate seeds. That is an interesting combination. He says, let's say you invite me to your home. Okay, he says, let's say you invite me to your home and you let me know there's a no shoes in the house policy for the purpose of keeping your carpet clean. Like every Asian household.

Obviously it's like man my wife's trying to pull that on me right now. She's trying to after all these years she claims that it's always been that way I just haven't listened. It's just so much better you just leave your shoes you just leave your outside shoes.. Yes, but you're yeah Yes, it's like no shit. It's obvious to you Especially when you're like going in and out of the house doing shit. You got to take them off. That's my whole thing. Yeah Tied indoor and outdoor you're exiting see there you go. He's got a thing. I have these wool overshoes that you put,

you slip your feet into to then run through the house. Yeah. Or you can do that, but no, just, it's like a giant flip flop. No, it's like a giant slide in. You got to get your kids to buy into it too. If you got kids and that's difficult. Yeah. That's your thing. It's like the dog don't take it's feet off. Well, some people whitewash their dog's feet

before they go inside. That's just too much work. We just mop. I will wipe my dog's feet off. I might switch because it drives my wife bananas. You think he's eating a fried egg or scrambled eggs with his chicken and pomegranates? You think the pomegranate's raw?

It's gotta be fried. You know, like. Fried egg and chicken? That's a little bit like, you know, like? Fried egg and chicken. That's a little bit like that. That's like the new steak and eggs. Fried egg and chicken, it's like that Old Testament prohibition against eating meat and milk together.

Like you can't eat, like you wouldn't boil a calf in its mother's milk. Like separating the. Yeah, it's like the chicken and the egg. It's like, geez, the egg it's like she's what came first right give my break and scrambled eggs and there was a chicken peck it at my feet it's kind of weird yeah circle of life let's get back to this yeah okay so I tell him hey man look this guy. Okay, so I tell him, hey man, look this guy here, he writes in, I tell him, I said, hey man,

don't wear your shoes in my house. I want to keep my carpet clean. He says, I obviously respect that rule and leave my stinkers, it's a euphemism for shoes, I gather, leave my stinkers at the door outside. Unless he's got really smelly feet, then you'd want him to keep his shoes on. Here's where it gets rich. Good point. Here's where it gets rich. I point. Here's where it gets rich. I want totoad cheese on the inside.

He goes on to say, one week later I invite you to my home. I do not have such a shoe rule. In fact, I have no carpet in the house. But, since I had to take my shoes off at your house. I then tell you to leave your shoes at the door as I walk around in my own shoes Sounds deranged he's equating all of this to reciprocity. Yeah, but then I got lost my I think he's kind of on track. No, but the, but he says that's petty and irrational. I think the better metaphor is you come into my house

and I crack open a beer and I tell you, I don't let people who don't live in this house eat or drink in my house. And then I go over to your house and I want to eat your food. Right? Like, like there's not a, this is silly because it doesn't affect anybody. But the reality is like, if you, if you told somebody that

they can't have any of like a beer in the fridge and then you went over to their house and grabbed a beer out of their fridge that would be weird. Yeah, yeah. I just want to open a business where I would help people rationalize your rational decisions. You got to come up with a good name for that one. We've got a podcast to do that on. That can be a new segment. Well because it'd be like let's say a guy wants to buy a new truck but just makes zero cents right? Mm-hmm. He'd call and I'd be like, let's say a guy wants to buy a new truck, but just makes zero cents, right? He call and I'd be like, Hey man, you work hard, you know? Yeah.

I mean, do you feel like your full self in that old truck? Like, don't you feel that you're going to show up better at work and show better for your family when you feel more confident? Everything is going to be an enabler and a push. And then he'll hang up and be like, God, I am going to buy that truck. Putting American families in debt since 2024. And then you get a commission from Ford. We should bring Susie Ormond back on the show. Yeah. Listeners decide if they want that. Yeah. So it's like, you help. And this is his thing. This guy could start a little project where he takes complex law issues and brings them home. You know, complex law issues and he brings them into like household analogies. Yeah. But

if you like Steve's idea then write into the MeatEater podcast at themeat eater com with your dilemmas. Yeah something you need to justify, but you just can't or I'll help you if you're trying to Like get something out of your wife or get a concession out of your wife But you can't think of how to approach it. I'll walk you through it. What do they put in the subject line? I need help Occasionally get emails every now and then from people who really do need help So we might just yeah, there might be a boy cried wolf situation there on the same subject

Sort of the same subject. It really like the reciprocity thing really got folks Yeah, they a lot of people wrote in okay, so here's this one Not the same thing as reciprocity, but something that seems unfair. Dear Meat Eater Crew, I know the subject of paying higher prices if you are a non-resident has been covered on the podcast, but I'm in a situation that I don't think has been covered and would like to get everyone's thoughts I'll try to make a long story short. I Grew up in the northern lower peninsula of Michigan where my family owns hunting land with a camp

After I graduated high school. I joined the military Did 20 years here. He's stacking the deck. he is he's setting himself up as stack in the deck he's trying to like gain points in his favor you know but has nothing with all due respect respect it thank you for your thank you for your service this is bullshit he may have taken the class that your kids right yeah's true. This is the kind of thing I would help someone with. It would be like if Steve murdered someone and they were like, but he was a really good guy. What about, what about if he'd written in, I graduated high school and I never quite really figured out what I wanted to do. Kind of bounced around for a while.

Got in trouble with the law. And now I'd like to buy a resident hunting license. So you're stuck, you know, he's stuck in the deck, but I'll let him do it. I'll give, I'll let him do it. After I graduated high school, I joined the military, did 20 years. Thank you for your service.

He's stuck in the deck. Well, I think it, and it can, and now, so, so put that out of your head and weighing the fairness of this, he's here. He tainted the jury, they call it. And now, so put that out of your head. And weighing the fairness of this, he tainted the jury, they call it. He tainted the jury. You would start here. Yep, and now, so now we're back to the fact of the matter,

with all due respect. And now I am a permanent resident of Wisconsin, which is where my wife is from. That's a good detail. That's not stacking the deck. He goes on, I do bow hunt in Wisconsin. He doesn't mention this as a resident under resident pricing. He doesn't mention that. I do bow hunt in Wisconsin, but I still go to Michigan every year for the firearm deer season to hunt at our camp. And of course, now I have to pay for a non-resident license. Last year, my dad took his name off the deed

and added mine to it. I am now part owner, along with a couple other family members, which means I'm paying my part of the property taxes, utilities, and everything else that goes along with owning a hunting camp. It seems to me that this is a little on the unfair side because of all the other monies I am paying to the state of Michigan by owning land that I still have to pay full price for a

non-resident hunting license. He proposes a third category. He feels that there should be a third category called the non-resident landowner. To be fair, no, no, no. Just wait. Montana has that coming home to hunt thing, which is. Yep. Yeah. Really? Love that. Coming home to hunt thing, which is. Yep. Yeah. Really love that. But anyway, he's what he's saying is he deserves a discount, right? He says, hey, I'm paying property taxes and mission. I deserve a discount. But here's the thing from a state fishing

game agencies perspective. You can only be a resident of one state. Yes, right. I didn't vote twice. I don't understand why why this is so like fuzzy, you know, like if you get busted for poaching why this is so like fuzzy.

You know, like if you get busted for poaching, your name goes into a database and then you lose hunting and fishing privileges. Right. In all these other compact states. In 40 and 44 states. Why don't we just have a database where you are a resident of this state and it just cross references it.

Cause you hear all the time about people buying three or four. Oh sure. Like people get in trouble for it. When I was running the fly shop, like we were a licensed vendor back in Colorado and there's a lot of second homeowners in the Valley we lived in.

And this shit came up all the time for fishing licenses, elk tags, they'd bring in bills, they'd show you all sorts're like, they'd show you all sorts of shit to like be like, look! And I'm like, dude, you're not a resident. Like, there's nothing I can do about it. He goes on to bring up another gripe. I'm not hacking on the guy, he's a great guy. He brings up another gripe. There's a lot of elk in that area, but it's a draw. But the elk draw isn't, and he's got elk that come onto his family's property,

but he's not eligible for the elk draw because he's not a resident. I would look at it like this. His name's Scott. Scott, I would think about it a little bit like this. Would you write us saying, hey man, I vote in Wisconsin, but I own a place in Michigan,

so I'd like to vote there too. Or would you write into us and say, hey, I'm applying for unemployment privileges in Wisconsin, but I have a place in Michigan. I want to apply for unemployment benefits in Michigan too. I mean, of course not. It wouldn't, it wouldn't surprise me if there were a state out there that had a non-resident landowner category pricing difference.

No, because you know, there's going to be a lot of money that's put into lobbying for that rule. Yep. And you could picture how that rule would come to be non-resident landowner preferences in the draw, which has been a, you know, a thing. Oh, this guy, we should know about this. Scott, you're gonna dig this one. If your situation was going on in other states, there'd probably be a thing where you were eligible,

there might be a thing where you guys were eligible for landowner tags that wouldn't matter where you were a resident. This is all happening to you in the wrong state. Yep. But I'd look at it this way. You got a great hunting camp in Michigan, you're a resident of Wisconsin, so you can hunt there.

Tags are a little more expensive, but it sounds pretty good. Yep. How much are tags there? Like how much are we talking about? Couple hundred bucks. Not Western price, non-resident prices. So it's not like that he'd be saving like thousands of dollars.

And I'll bet you can shoot a whole pile of deer on that Michigan license if you wanted to. Sorry, Scott. Transfer his residence to Michigan and becomes an out-of-stater in Wisconsin. Non-resident looks like 190 bucks versus. That's a smoking deal. 40 bucks.

What I feel Scott should, if he was gonna rate out what chaps his ass more, I feel like he should have greater ass chap over the elk thing. Yeah. Yeah. That would chap my ass more than the 190. Cause he's hunting at home for 20 bucks. Yeah. In Wisconsin. more than the 190 because he's hunting at home for 20 bucks yeah in Wisconsin

yeah the elk thing's tough oh you know what here's the deal too I could okay my mom still lives in the house I was brought up in mm-hmm I could say to my mom I could be like hey mom we need to get my name I want to get my name on the deed to the house yeah so that I can start hunting there as a resident yep I mean that's the that's a low right low that's I feel like that's why residency has to be very particular you know like cuz cuz there's all kinds of ways guys could fuzz it up. Yeah. You know what I would do? I would go around to every state and I'd be like, I call realtor.

I'll be like, yeah, I want to buy the dumbest, shittiest little lot you can find. Yeah. Like it doesn't even need to be big enough for me to stand on. Yeah. Like if you could find any weird little thing I can buy that way, I could be a resident in a county with the lowest taxes that way I can hunt as a resident there mm-hmm yeah Scott you shame yourself Scott I don't know sorry buddy I love you death Scott, but I just oh you know what I failed to say he says am I just winding over nothing He's not why we're not we gotta shorten that whole thing up and said uh-huh yes I mean he's not saying he's not saying I want to get a resident tag to be fair

He's not saying I should be able to get a resident tag. Fees. He's just saying somewhere in the middle, like. Cut him a break. Yeah, cut the guy a break. 20 years in the military, cut me a break. Yeah, let him apply for an ELCTag. So he ends his thing, in all fairness to Scott.

He ends his thing. So do I have a legitimate complaint about paying non-resident fees, or am I just whining over nothing? Thanks for your thoughts on this. Yeah. Ah. Ah.

I, you know, he should go hunt dogs place. Yeah. With dogs. Yeah, with dogs. He should get a big pack of dogs, and go down and run them through Doug's property. And wear his shoes. See what comes out. Wear his shoes in Doug's house.

Doug wouldn't care. Dude, at Doug's house, you gotta put your shoes on to go inside. Yeah, you do. The floor will make your feet very dirty. Yeah, I think I'll put my shoes on. Put my rubber boots. I don't mean Doug's house. That's mean. Doug's the farm. Yeah, their camp. But now that he cleans up and he kind of got he used to have this thing where He you know those uh those little ladybugs that aren't ladybugs

Are those like white ones? No, no, it looks just like a ladybug, but it's a Asian Japanese, you're not talking about Japanese beatles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had a lot of those around. Oh my God. They'd carpet the place. They'll eat the shit out of your stuff. You know, like you, you know those little pull cords in the, in the upstairs, they got like a four foot ceiling where we sleep up there and he's got pull cords, you know, turn the light on and off. It'll be that, it'll be that they'll those little Japanese beetles

will be covering the pool court. Mexican bean beetle? I don't think it's the Japanese. No, they're like a shiny copper color. No, no, no, it looks like a ladybug. Well then we're not talking about the same thing. Son of a gun. Oh, it's a lot of people. I'm just trying to wrap the show up.

Hold on, type in like. Six people with computers, let's see how long this takes. Looks like a ladybug, but not. It is a... Try Mexican bean beetle. Dude looks like a lady by Aerosmith. Asian lady beetles. Mexican bean beetle. Look at that. Asian lady beetles. So many of those were in this place that, you know those pull cords, you go, turn the lights on and off?

It would be, I'm not, you think I'm exaggerating, I'm not. So many of them on that string, that the ones in the bottom are like, ah, falling away. And there's more coming across the ceiling and getting on the rope and like the lower guys are like, I can barely hang on. I mean you wake up there in your hair. So yeah, when that was going on, you'd have to put your shoe,

you'd want to put shoes on to go in, but he had a, he had a infestation exterminator type dude come out and put some stuff in the walls to try to get a grip on it. It was bad. So now I'm not even gonna talk about the flies. Oh this is interesting about the Asian lady beetle. Doug I love that place, that's my favorite place in the world. Alright thanks for joining everybody. Tune in next time. I'm born off the dark of a lake And love for sufferers, all I need from this world Pan fish and squirrel The designer dogs with too much fur My new best friend's a mountain girl American made fox and race Staring the eye of the black Look you're a pumpkin seed In your home of leaves and weeds I'll fulfill this ancient deed As I dream, as I dream in this world Manfish and squirrel

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