The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 704: MeatEater Radio Live! Happy Dogs, Hound Dogs, and Hot Dogs

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

Hosts Randall Williams, Tony Peterson, and Lake Pickle dig deep into dogs with trainer Jordan Horak of Cato Outdoors, play a thrilling round of MeatEater Price is Right with help from their friends as Scheels, discuss 1974's canine classic, Where the Red Fern Grows, talk ticks with Dr. Mani Lejuene of Cornell University, and throwback to some cherished dog memories. Watch the live stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel. Connect with The MeatEater Podcast Network MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. You searched for your informant. Who disappeared without a trace. You knew there were witnesses, but lips were sealed. You swept the city, driving closer to the truth. While curled up on the couch with your cat. There's more to imagine when you listen, discover heart pounding thrillers on audible.

Steve Ronella here. The American West with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the MeatEater podcast network. It's hosted by author and historian Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time, wild animals, native peoples in the West unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American West and he will help to explain why it is the way it is

Today I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history and I invite you To get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American West with Dan Flores on Tuesday May 6th on the MeatEater Podcast Network. Subscribe to the American West with Dan Flores on Apple, Spotify, iHeart or wherever you get your podcast, listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out and I mean that in a very good way. podcast. Welcome to MeatEater Radio Live. It's 11 a.m. Mountain Time. That's 8 p.m. for our friends in Luko, Finland on Thursday, May 15th.

And we are live from MeatEater HQ in Bozeman, Montana. I'm your host, Randall Williams, and I'm joined today by Tony Peterson and Lake Pickle. On today's show, we're talking dogs, the beloved species, aka man's best friend, as well as the food variety. Of course, I'm referring to hot dogs. Jeez, jeez. This is a good script. First, we'll interview dog trainer extraordinaire, Jordan Horak, and then we'll play a little game we recoined, The Price is Right. We recoined that?

I don't think we recoined anything. I think we just stole that outright. Followed by a highly requested return of the Meat Eater Movie Club where we'll be discussing the children's classic Where the Red Fern Grows. And after that we'll talk with Professor Monty Lejeune about ticks and tick prevention in our dogs. And finally, we will do a throwback Thursday with some memories with some of our four-legged best friends. But first, Tony, Lake, great to have you fellas in the studio. What brings you to town this week? Let me go first? Go first, go ahead.

All right. Well, dog week. I have the Houndations podcast on Cal's Feed, which is all about dogs. We've been writing dog articles and dropping them on the site. I have a new rooster film. If you like watching public land roosters get crunched by an adorable black lab. Beautiful. And me. You can check that out at the meat eater site, but yeah, we are just celebrating dogs. We finally did an end around.

I actually did the end around on Steve Rinella, who was a cat guy, big cat guy, and went right to the seat. Everybody's saying that. Right, well, because it's true. Yeah. Yes. This is not a rumor I started. This is just known around the office. But I did an end around on Steve, went to our CEO and I said, hey man, everybody here

loves dogs, but Steve, can we finally do something for the company instead of just catering to him? And he said, fine. And so now we have dog week and we are going to be cranking out dog content from here on out. It's a new category at meat eater. Well done. Well done.

And you know who else loves dogs? The people. The people. Absolutely. Almost everyone. Yes. That's right. Hot dogs and the furry kind.

Indeed. Both of them. Yeah. So, uh, my reason for being up here is twofold. The first one is I'm working on a new podcast that'll go on the bear grease feed that I'm super excited about going to be called backwoods university.

Um, and also when we scheduled the time to come up here, I knew that may it was still turkey season in Montana. I don't know how you feel about Turkey on Randall, but I, I love it a whole lot. So I hit up Max Barta, who I've been buddies with for a while, I was like, hey man, since I'm gonna be up there.

And so we snuck out Monday and managed to get a turkey. So it's been a great week. Yeah, I asked Max Barta to take me turkey hunting. And now he's taken two out of town visitors turkey hunting successfully in the past seven days. And I'm left wondering what Max really thinks of me if there's anything there. Max, if you're watching the show, go ahead and call in.

We'll go ahead and talk to you live here. Randall, I would just like to say that Max invited me to turkey hunt this week as well. Are you serious? He did. 100% serious. I will say he did invite me to turkey hunt Monday afternoon, I. Are you serious? He did. 100% serious. I will say he did he did invite me to turkey hunt Monday afternoon I believe after you killed your bird he said do you still want to go turkey hunting how about tomorrow and I said sure and he said

the weather looks bad we'll have to make a call on it and then two hours later he texted me and said the weather is too bad we shouldn't go. So Max did make an effort, right? Although at that point the forecast It was I don't know how wholehearted it was right I got to go in his defense seeing as like he he was huge part in me getting said turkey When we were driving back and the weather was still pretty he was like wonder if randall want to go tomorrow I was like ask him because I'm well breaking news if you want to direct your attention to the screen. I know Yeah, I would like to max kind of gets a bad rap for the audio listeners max max chimed in in the live chat He says hey Randall. I was going to take you Tuesday, but it rained. Yep. Yeah, and I'm just I'm just having fun with you max He did I I have every confidence that he will take me turkey hunting and we will get a bird 15 days left of the season

Not that anyone's counting. So Yeah, well, it's wonderful to have you guys here both your first times on radio live. I Actually was a guest on radio live once. Hmm. Colin that doesn't count. So please sit in this chair You don't know what it feels like well sitting in this chair. You don't know what it feels like. Well, gentlemen, I think it's time we move on to our first interview of the day. Joining us is professional dog trainer and the owner of Kato Outdoors, Mr. Jordan Horak. Jordan, thanks for joining us. Hey guys, I thought this was turning into a turkey episode here for a second. Not on

my watch. Not on my watch. Not on my watch. I just sounded like it for like three minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's talking about turkeys, but we're here for dogs. Yeah. Good. Good. First off, what is the most important thing you can do with a puppy during the first week after you bring it home? Yeah. All right. So, so here's, here's the deal. Like dogs are weird because everybody wants to turn them into like a computer or something that's really absolute and say like, okay, there's one right way to train a dog or to treat that dog in the first week.

And in my experience, like just like kids, like every dog is very different. So everyone's going to need a little bit of a different approach maybe. And there's gonna be people that have different ideas. And that's all great because this is really a subjective thing, training dogs. But in my opinion, when I bring a dog home, my natural urge is to start training it right away. Like I want it to be a great dog. So I want to teach it to sit and throw a bunch of retrieves and like start training and all these things. And in my experience, that's like the worst thing you can do because that dog is going through like a really big fear stage when you bring it to your house. Like it's you're a new person and you know, they can't speak English.

So nobody explained to that dog, like, Hey, uh, you're going to this new person's house and they really love you. And like, they don't know any of those things. So you have to show them, I think in that first week that like hey I'm somebody you want to hang out with like we're gonna have good times but requirements are really really low right now so I'm gonna do a lot of giving that puppy treats out of my hand I'm gonna get down on the floor with it play with it maybe get to get it to play a little bit of tug with me but I'm really just looking at building that relationship for the first week and

really like the first few months, that's going to be the main focus. There's going to be a few things. Of course, we're going to have to teach it right away. Like one of those would be, don't pee on the floor, go in the crate, be quiet in the crate. Don't bite me. Like you can't, you know, you can't chew on my hands like puppies like to do.

So of course we're gonna work on those things, but my primary thing for the first even few weeks is, hey, let's just get to be buddies and get ready for the long road, because this is a marathon. We got plenty of time to teach skills later on. So Jordan, I know, let's move past the first week here right now and just kind of building that trust

and making that puppy comfortable. I know you're a big confidence guy, right? You like to challenge dogs and help them build confidence. So when you talk about dogs being individuals, which they are, you kind of got to cater a lot of your training style to that individual dog, the personality, drive, all that stuff. But there is sort of a ubiquitous,

across the board need for confidence in dogs. And I know that you take puppies, you know, from eight weeks on, and that's like top of mind for you. Can you kind of give us like a 30,000 foot view on how you look at puppies and go, I wanna start creating a confident dog? Yeah, so a lot of people think that building a confident dog means like throwing it

into all these weird situations. So they bring this new puppy home and they take it to the pet store and they take it to their friends and they take it to the dog park and all these places. And I don't think that that makes a competent puppy because that's just a lot of confusion and a lot of uncontrolled environment,

bad things can happen. So I look at building confidence at actually like creating a predictable environment with a with a predictable outcome. So I'm not traveling them or taking them all over the place. I'm just trying to throw things at them at home. So one thing I did with a recent litter and if your listeners want to go check it out, I think it's pretty cool. And it's like the only thing I've ever done that's gone viral

on social media. So go watch it. But I created an obstacle course for a recent litter of Sprayer puppies that I did. And we started out just like with one obstacle within this course. They just had to go around one wall. And we put the food down at the end. And then we put the puppies down behind this wall. And all they had to do is go around it. And they were like, they were panicking, they were

crying, they're trying to cry, climb out the edge, like, they had no idea what to do. And like, their confidence was kind of shattered. A lot of people, the tendency would be like, Oh, look at the poor things like they need help. And, you know, they would go and intervene and really like that. Intervention is not going to help them build confidence. So we, I say, we, it was my, my kids and I were like doing the science experiment, basically behavior science.

We, we just stood there and watched them. And pretty soon one of them like stuck its head around the wall, like, Oh, look, I can kind of go this way. And all of a sudden they all, they all ran around the corner and they're eating food. The next time we did that, we dropped them in there, didn't say anything, put the food down. And all nine of the puppies just ran around the corner. And then we progressively started to add more and more complex obstacles to that obstacle course. And it was really cool to see the puppies like their mindset changed from when they first went in there where it was like, to see the puppies, like their mindset changed

from when they first went in there where it was like, I don't know what to do. I just give up. By the end, they were like, I know what to do. Doesn't matter what you put in front of me, I'm going to go through it. And I think like the obstacle course was a really like vivid example of learning and overcoming a challenge. I think for a hunting dog, there's a lot of other things that come up in life. Like for instance, a long retrieve or going into really heavy cover or getting into a boat or even like hopping in a dog trailer. Like there's lots of challenges or obstacles that they're going to encounter. I think starting really, really small with something that

I think starting really, really small with something that they can have an easy outcome with, like for us, it was just go around one wall. I think that's really important rather than just throwing them into hard things right at the start. Because really, like for people and for animals, we gain confidence through success. We don't gain confidence through failure. So if we put them into something where they're going to fail and be overwhelmed, like that only like suppresses confidence. So I like to think of it as like, give them the challenge that's easily surmountable,

make sure that there's a reward at the end, right? Like you can't just like throw them in the obstacle course and like, hey, like figure this out. And when you get to the end, like we'll do it again, or there's nothing there. Like they have to have a motivation or a reason. With a puppy, that motivation often is going to be a treat. As they get older, that motivation might be the retrieve.

So I can give a dog a really, really hard retrieve and they've got to go out there and problem solve and they've got to show courage and like go through this creek and over this berm and through these, you know, chest, thigh, cat tails and whatever. But they know that at the end, there's that reward of like finding the bird or finding the bumper, but that all it doesn't start there. Like that's, that's the end product. So starting really, really small controlled environment,

something that I know they're going to be successful in with a very clear reward at the end. Yeah, and you view this as, you know, the confidence thing is huge, but you also look at this as like, you're conditioning those dogs to be problem solvers, which we think about training and we look at it and go, I want my dog to do this kind of retrieve perfectly every time, cause that's the behavior I want.

But then you take that hunting dog out into the field and you're like, you have to solve a series of problems in every environment. You know, we knocked this rooster down here, that green head there. want, but then you take that hunting dog out into the field and you're like, you have to solve a series of problems in every environment. We knocked this rooster down here, that green head there. So you're actually teaching those puppies to problem solve at eight, nine, 10 weeks old. Yeah, and I think I've maybe like problem solving

and confidence are two different things, but I think they're inseparable here as well. Like if you have a really confident dog, it's gonna go out and figure out a way to do it. It's gonna solve the problem. If you have a dog that's insecure and doesn't wanna do anything, it's gonna fail. But yes, Tony, I think even training could be,

training a new thing could be a problem that they have to solve, right? Like, like sitting. We think of sitting as being really simple, but really, like, if I'm holding a treat and wanting that dog to do a behavior, like, technically, they have a problem they have to solve. They want the treat. They don't know what that behavior is. So yeah, with an eight or nine week old puppy, like they can start learning to solve the problem of like, Hey, why are you just standing there looking at me with that treat? What do I have to do? The buck goes down, they get the treat. Oh, I, I think I might, you know, have a solution to this problem. So as they learn to start offering behaviors and trying new things to solve problems, like, correct, those things get more and more complex as they get older or the requirements, the ask.

For sure. Can we switch gears here quick? So you are, those puppies you were talking about, that litter that you built a little obstacle course for, those are Springer's, you are known for being an English cocker guy. Why? Yeah, I don't know.

I don't, so I've actually owned like eight or nine springers. I posted these these videos of these springers and everybody said, why did you get a springer? Like I've had quite a few of them. But cockers I've, I won the open nationals in 2018. I won the amateur nationals and then I won the open national. So and then I won the open with a dog named Kato, and then I started Kato Outdoors right after that. So everybody think for sure I've owned more Cockers and I've had success in trials with Cockers. So that's why I guess I get associated with them. And I do love that breed and I have way more Cockers than I have Sprayers at this point. Yeah, but there had to be a reason why you went to them first and then you just kind of,

you kind of glossed over this, but you went and won huge championships with them. What was it? What is it about them? Yeah, so I got done with school and I was living in a little apartment with my wife and I wanted another hunting dog because the one, my childhood dog had died.

And I'm a really impulsive person, if nothing else. So I read a magazine article and somebody mentioned a Cocker Spaniel and that they were little and that you could pheasant hunt with them. And I'm gonna, so I think Google had like just come out. So I did a quick search and found a guy two hours away and I drove up and got a puppy from him.

And I would say like, I got a Cocker like for the small hunting dog. And I stayed with Cockers because of the small hunting dog that also has a big personality. Like their spaniels are like really, really typically people oriented, like almost to a fault. Like you can't go in the bathroom without the dog, like sitting outside the door, like,

hey, when are you going to come back out to play with me? So they're, they're really, really sociable. Like they want to like make this connection with you. Like you'll see their face, like the ears kind of drop and they're just like trying to like, Hey, how do I crawl inside your brain and understand you? And I really liked that about them. They're small, really smart dog. And the small size is like, it's conducive to living in town or to traveling.

And they can still do the things that a big dog can do. Well, I'm a, I'm a lab guy myself, but, uh, the size thing, the size thing occasionally does seem appealing. Jordan, thanks so much for joining us today. Uh, great to meet you. And, uh, when I get a new puppy here, maybe in the next year, maybe I'll give you a call, get some tips. Yeah.

Give me a call or stop by. I've never met you in person. Thanks Jordan. All right. Thanks guys. Yep. He knows a lot about dogs. So I'll give you a quick anecdote here. Have you ever read All the Pretty Horses? Oh yeah. Cormac McCarthy. So the the lead guy there, John Grady Cole, he leans down and talks to horses. So he comments on this,

or this is sort of a central theme throughout that book, where it's like, you don't know what he's saying to the horse, but he can break a horse better than anyone, and he's got a way with them, and he leans down, and he says something, the conversation between him and the horse. I met Jordan six years ago at an event, and he would do that with his dogs.

So they're performing in front of a whole bunch of people and he leans down and he says something to them. And so I'm like, I've read about that behavior before. Uh, he's got a way with them, man. Our vet, when, when we first met our new vet, when we moved to Livingston, he opened the door

and got in and just got down on the floor and started crawling around with the dogs. And then later he sort of realized what he was doing and said, oh, hey, and introduced himself to us. But I thought, actually, that's how I know you're real. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Phil, our next segment is The Price is Right presented by our friends at Shields. Here it comes from Bozeman, Montana, Meteor Radio's most exciting 10 minutes, it's The Price is Right!

Tony Peterson, come on down! Lake Pickle, come on down! You're the next two contestants on Meteor Radio's The Price is Right! Dog Week edition presented by Shields. This game is really simple. Now Phil's gonna tell you about a product from the Meat Eater universe

and you're gonna need to guess its price. The player with the closest answer without going over will be declared the winner. And if both players go over, you'll both be told to try again. And the chat should play along as well because whoever has the closest answer will get a shout out from Phil the engineer.

All right, there are three products for today's show. Phil, tell us about the first item up for bid here. I gotta play the product music, Randall, it's very important. Oh, yep, there it is. Let's start today's bidding with the Garmin Sport Pro Dog Training Bundle. Is your dog selective hearing worse than Ryan Callahan's? Has your pup come to confuse the command, here, with, quick, run in the opposite direction? Well,

those days will soon be a distant memory with the help of the Garmin Sport Pro Dog Training Bundle, rated the number one dog training collar of 2025 by our friends at Shields. This puppy features 10 levels of static stimulation to match your dog's temperament, plus vibrate, tone, and a beacon light so you can keep track of your pup on those midnight potties that last a suspiciously long time. Plus, there's a built-in bark limiter so the neighbors don't call animal control when you've got to work late editing a podcast recording that should have been sent to you 48 hours before.

If nothing works and your dog still sucks after your best efforts hang this remote around your neck with the included Lanyard at the dog park and at least you'll look like a guy who takes his canine training seriously He collar should only be used after properly educating yourself on safe and effective training methods side effects may include the unsettling Realization that your dog could fully understand every command all along it's all the professional dog training before use effectiveness may decrease if your dog Exactly smarter than you are Wow, Phil effectiveness may decrease if your dog is exactly smarter than you are. Wow, Phil. That's a hell of a side effects read. Thank you. I didn't realize the human voice was capable of that. I thought it was always done in after effects. I thought they fast-forwarded it.

Oh no. Yeah, yeah. But no that Phil, you just sound fast forwarded. So we've got the Garmin Sport Pro Dog Training Bundle. What are your guesses, gentlemen here? It seems like a fine product. Again, rated the number one dog training collar of 2025 by our friends at Shields. And I will note these prices that we're reading here are from Shields.

You have your answers. Why don't we flip those boards over? Tony goes with $179.00 and Lake goes with $500.00. We've got a winner. The correct answer is $249.99. Tony, well done. Well done. You got one one of those I do not competitive price it is it's a great price

Phil what do we got for our second item up for bid here today, and I apologize these these Descriptions are much too long. I now realize having listened to your first one I Like them it's fun to read them. How about a pet safe automatic ball launcher? Is your throwing arm begging for mercy while your dog's still begging for one more toss? Does your furry friend have the aerobic endurance of Janus Putellus, but the only thing you want to throw is throw back a few rum punches after, say, a long day of podcast recording with an eccentric opinionated individual who is hyper fixated on a few specific activities that don't really align with your interests.

Wow, this is hitting home, Randall. Problem solved! This ball-flinging miracle launches standard tennis balls up to 30 feet, perfect for the dog who has more energy than Snort on Pheasant Opener. With multiple distance settings, you can adjust from living room friendly to, Huck that sucker into the next zip code! And built-in motion sensors prevent balls from launching when your unsuspecting family members are in the line of fire.

Your dog can even learn to reload it themselves, though success rates vary depending on whether your pet is a graduate of dog-EDU or, well, nah. Get ready to reclaim your sofa time while your dog runs itself into a tennis ball-induced stupor! Nicely done, Phil. Ooh, boy, that looks fancy. I wonder how much you could possibly cost. You guys have your answers ready? Let me flip them over here. Tony goes with $49.99 and Lake goes with $89..99 The correct answer is

$209.99 Got a tie game here fellas. Wait, you guys didn't have much confidence in the in the quality of that tennis ball launcher You don't see a lot of those in my world. I Was just trying to rein it in after I so like widely overshot the first one good strategy I bet people in the live chat are saying, but Randall, you're not asking about the commenters and if they're guessing correctly, but here's the thing. I have not had time to even look at the comments.

I know, I know. I'm sorry, Phil. I really- No, it's okay. Honestly, it's making my job easier, which I appreciate. The read is too taxing. I just, the word counts too high. You guys can feel good about yourselves in the live chat.

The next one's a little shorter though. I will say, when I was preparing this yesterday, Sydney walked in and I showed her the tennis ball thrower and she said, oh, we should get that. And I said, guess how much it is? She said, 209.99. And I said, or no, I said it was 209.99. And she said, we shouldn't get that. So had we been at priced at like 89.99, I might be the owner of one.

Anyway, onto our next item. Had we been at price-debt like 89.99, I might be the owner of one. Anyway, onto our next item. How about a three month supply of NexGuard Chewables for dogs weighing 60 to 121 pounds? It's NexGuard Chewable tablets for dogs. Is your furry friend a hair covered hideaway for blood sucking freeloaders? You need NexGuard Redbox. These beef flavored death traps don't mess around,

don't negotiate, annihilate! Send those nasty bugs straight to hell! NexGuard Redbox will get the job done! No survivors! One tasty treat each month gives your sweet pooch 30 days of protection from ticks and fleas, and the Redbox three-month supply means fewer trips to the vet.

NexGuard, because the only things you should be sucking the life out of Are your soul crushing job your suffocating? Mortgage the bone-chilling cold of winter and the existential dread that your entire existence is just a cosmic joke played by an indifferent universe Not your dogs disgusting parasites Knocked it out of the park Phil. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. So we've got a three month supply of Nex Guard chewables for dogs and again, this is

This is for dogs weighing 60 to 121 pounds Tony are you a Nex Guard man? Nope And you probably figured that out pretty quickly here, buddy. Mm-hmm Nope. And you'll probably figure that out pretty quickly here, buddy. Mm, mm. Lake, you have dogs? Oh yeah.

I got two of them. What kinds? Labs. Oh good, good, good, good. Well, why don't we flip those boards over, gang? Tony goes with 39.95 and Lake says $100. Lake, you're closest, but you went over. The correct answer is $90.89.

So Tony's gonna get away with a cheap victory here. I don't feel good about it. Yep, the low ball in Price is Right is really a coward's move. I mean, I feel better than losing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. None of us feel as good as Phil does. Yeah, I think Phil won that little segment.

Thanks for playing along, everybody. This is just a really good hot dog. Yeah. won that little segment. Thanks for playing along, everybody. This is just a really good hot dog. Yeah. Thank you for those. Thanks for playing along, everybody, and remember to help control the pet population. Have your pet spayed and neutered. It's oddly prescient for Bob Barker to do this,

knowing that we would do this now on Radio Live during dog week. He must have known. Yep. You searched for your informant who disappeared without a trace. You knew there were witnesses, but lips were sealed. You swept the city, driving closer to the truth. While curled up on the couch with your cat, there's more to imagine when you listen.

Discover heart pounding thrillers on Audible. Steve Rinella here. The American West with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the MeatEater Podcast Network. It's hosted by author and historian, Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time, wild animals, native peoples

in the West's unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American West, and he will help to explain why it is the way it is today. I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history and I invite you to get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American West with Dan Flores on Tuesday, May 6th on the Meat

Eater Podcast Network. Subscribe to the American West with Dan Flores on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out. And I mean that in a very good way. Let's take a break for some listener feedback. Phil, what does the chat have to say? Yeah, I apologize because I haven't been looking

at the chat for a while. So please get your dog related questions, or not dog related, into the live chat now, if you would like them answered by our crew First comment comes from Brent Reeves. He says little-known fact Lake Pickle can sing just like George straight. Mm-hmm That's uh, not true. Oh, I mean, I think there's only one way to find out you look so good in love hit me He looks so good in love Wow It was on key.

I prefer Jamie Foxx's version though. It's probably better. It is good. Wokum says, I have a question about dog steadiness. My two-year-old chocolate lab loves the sound of guns and is off to off the place so fast, even when I just raised the gun, how best to teach steadiness? That's a Tony question, I think. Well, there's kind of a lot to unpack there, but I would say you kind of have to back up

and go the gun should, this is sort of gonna be a parallel to gunfire introduction, right? We started with clapping, we started like distant clapping, then you work in some 22s and that kind of stuff. If your dog recognizes that gun as an excuse to break, then you gotta back up and work steadiness

in a way where it's like, make him sit to wait to feed, make him sit on the retrieves and get the basic foundational steadiness first. Because what this sounds like is, maybe there were some false positives with the steadiness earlier, so we moved on and now this dog associates that gun with the best thing possible And you have to go back and go do you have steadiness down at first before that gun comes anywhere near it?

So I would I would back way up on that Before I brought a gun out again Lake anything to add there. Yeah, I mean one thing I say, I'd say that's not the worst problem to have. I would rather him be eager rather than the opposite of. But yeah, I mean, just echoing off of what Tony said, I mean, all that's based off the foundation of discipline of a dog, like just the foundations of obedience to everything.

So I mean, I don't have anything on top of what Tony said, but tailor it back and just make sure that he's steady to everything else and then advance back forward. Yeah, and this sounds, I don't know, I mean, I'm filling in the blanks here, but this sounds like waterfall training to some extent. And if you think about, if you have a dog

that's that keyed up, when a gun comes up to jump or to break, now you have a real safety issue. Because you imagine those birds coming in, everybody's eyes to the sky, and that dog feels the same way. You bring that gun up and might flare your birds, but now you have, you knock down a cripple in the water. You're like, Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to shoot it before we send the dog. That dog jumps out and you're, you know what I mean?

It's just like, that's one of those things that's really tough. Cause it's unnatural. Steadiness is unnatural for dogs, but it's a safety issue aside from just a manners and behavior issue. The other thing is like you never want to be the guy on a waterfowl hunt that has the dog that breaks. You don't, you want to get a handle on them. I don't bring my dogs anywhere. Right. For that reason, yeah. They're not trained at all. Phil, what else we got? One Spencer Newharth asks, Tony, Lake, Randall and Phil, you get to pick three hot dog toppings

for the rest of your life. What are they? Ketchup mustard relish. Ketchup mustard onions. Ketchup mustard cheese. Cheese. Mustard sauerkraut. Is that a Mississippi thing?

Cheese? Are we talking like real, are we talking like Frankfurters? Or, or are we talking just brats? Well, how about you get specific Randall? This is what the people are here for. It's dog week. Yeah, I don't know. I'll just stick to hot dogs, ketchup, mustard, relish.

Great. On that note, Heritage Tradition asks, have you guys ever had a Seattle dog, which is cream cheese and grilled onions grilled onions which I love a lot I thought he's talking about a breed of dog right what's a Seattle dog no it's a great it's a great hot dog it's a great regional variation on a tried-and-true classic Hardway Alaska asks my four-year-old blue tick has separation and just high anxiety and high anxiety in general.

Is there hope on breaking her from this or is she just a house pet? So separation anxiety is one of the biggest stressors in most modern dogs life. Like this is a real issue. I would say, I don't, I don't know a lot about blue ticks, but I would say fundamentally the dogs that get the worst separation anxiety are not necessarily as confident dogs and also haven't been not only exercised physically, but mentally.

So when you wanna take the edge off a dog, we kind of gloss over the mental part, like the little problem solving games, but you think about kindergartners, right? Like they learn, they have recess. They learn, they play. Dogs are kind of the same way. They need to run and get that physical exercise,

but they need that mental stimulation. And that's not gonna like totally cure separation anxiety because there could be other stuff to unpack there, but you can definitely sort of mitigate some of the worst effects of it. unpack there, but you can definitely sort of mitigate some of the worst effects of it. Yeah, I have house bets. So again, what else we got, Phil? Well, Pete has a very pressing question and I'm sure you guys have an answer for him. It's morale season. Any tips on training my 13 month old Vizsla, how to find them for me?

Is that a thing? You could absolutely do that. I bet. You think so? Just positive association man. I promise you you could probably train a dog. Okay, I assumed it was a joke and I read it like a joke But if you think that it could be possible. No, there's there's a lot of like Dogs that sniff mushrooms, right? There are some. Yeah, I shouldn't say a lot, but that's a thing I think I don't I don't know this for sure, but I bet you could probably order up dried Morel powder, which would have a lot of surface area for scent,

and you could train year round. You know, it's kind of like shed antler training. You know, a shed antler itself doesn't have a lot of scent, but ground bone powder has a lot of scent. And so I bet you could do this better than you would probably think, but you have that really short window of morel season to actually have that dog go out and get that practical experience. So you'd have to figure out a way to train it off season. And that's how

I would do it. I like it. I've morel hunted with my dogs, but none of us found them. And then another one from Pete, how to encourage a water shy dog to get more interested in swimming. Any general tips for that? Water shyness is way more common than people think. And so, in fact, the four-year-old lab that I have, I had a hell of a time getting her into the water, and I didn't see that coming. Go out on hot days, get them really worked up and then change your training location to someplace with water. Clear water is the best if you can get it. Nice gentle slope, hard bottom, so there's no surprises. So that dog, you know, if it's 95 degrees out there and you've been training, that dog gets into that water.

It's going to go into the water to some level, but you don't want it to hit a ledge and fall off, get surprised. You don't want cold water. You don't want it to hit a ledge and fall off, get surprised. You don't want cold water. You don't want too much current. And so for my dog, I re I tried all that and it, she wouldn't go in past, she wouldn't go in past her chest. So her tail ended up be floating and I ended up

having to bring out a pheasant wing, take her to a new environment and use a pond that right in the middle of it was just deep enough where she'd have to swim. So I had the highest reward she had ever encountered to that point in her life to retrieve because she wanted that wing more than anything. It was a new environment, so a mental reset. And then as soon as she did it and retrieved that wing, I never dealt with it again.

And it was like a three month process for me. I had a similar experience. The dog I have now now no issues the dog I had before him he was scared to death of water like wouldn't touch it and I had but it loved feathers And so same thing I had to build it up there And he's did first time I put it in the water He would stand on just on the edge of water and bark and wine until finally He just broke and went in there himself and then problem solved hmm

Yeah, my dogs just swim. Don't have anything to. Great. We'll call that for the segment now, but I will do this one more time at the end of the show. Yeah, get those questions and get those questions and I should have more time to read them this time. Thanks, Phil. Yeah, thanks, Phil. It's a great listener feedback break. It was. We're on to Meat Eater Movie Club.

I'm already self-conscious about how long this is. Wilson Rawls, Where the Red Fern Grows, adapted for screen in 1974, is a beloved coming-of-age story about a young boy named Billy Coleman and his two coon hounds in the Ozark Mountains of Oklahoma. It lives on as a beloved family classic that continues to resonate with viewers for its authentic portrayal of rural life, the earnest performances from its actors, and the emotional impact on the younger audiences. The plot of Where the Red Friend Grows is relatively simple. Boy wants dogs, boy gets dogs, dogs die prematurely. But this minimalist narrative structure functions as a

devastatingly elegant meta-commentary. Like Sisyphus eternally pushing his boulder uphill only to watch it roll back down, Billy Coleman's tireless efforts to acquire his hounds, his meticulous training regiment, and his eventual hunting triumphs constitute an elaborate exercise in cosmic futility. The mathematical certainty with which the narrative arc concludes in the death of his short-lived companions mirrors the inescapable terminus of all biological existence, suggesting that the universe operates not as a moral economy where hard work yields proportional reward, but rather as a cruel charade that temporarily entertains our aspirations before mechanistically dismantling them." Now please indulge me, I'm going to depart from a subject at hand, but this will all make sense.

On September 15, 1833, the English poet Arthur Henry Hallam suddenly dropped dead of a cerebral hemorrhage in the city of Vienna, Austria at the tragically young age of 22. Over the following 17 years, Hollum's former classmate at Cambridge, Alfred Lord Tennyson, paid tribute to his dear friend at a sprawling narrative poem titled In Memoriam A.A.H. that wrestles with the inevitability of tragedy and loss. Perhaps most notably, the poem introduced Victorian audiences to the metaphor of nature, red, and tooth and claw, later adopted by the acolytes of Charles Darwin for its clear-eyed characterization of a world shaped by the cold calculus of death and survivorship. Where the red fern grows serves as a cinematic literalization of Tennyson's meditative elegy. The correspondence between these works transcends

mere thematic similarities. Both emerge from profound personal grief, Tennyson's for hollam and Rawls from childhood memory of his own dogs. Both employ animal violence as a stand-in for universal suffering, and both ultimately question divine benevolence in a world of struggle and violence. Tennyson's vision of creation as an indifferent slaughterhouse, quote, so careful of the type she seems, so careless of the single life, finds its perfect juvenile counterpart in Billy Coleman's Ozark Woods. The profound difference, of course, is that Tennyson was writing for a sophisticated mid-century

readership capable of appreciating 3,000 lines of dense poetry, where the Redfern Grows is curiously tailor-made for ambushing elementary school students with philosophical provocations, where Billy Coleman's dogs merely accrual diversion from the fundamental emptiness of human experience. Perhaps most insidious is the film's calculated subversion of Billy's crowning achievement, the hunting tournament victory, through his grandfather's bumbling ineptitude. This transforms Billy's moment of triumph into a hollow victory contaminated by chance and human error.

The message crystallizes with brutal clarity. Even when one executes everything perfectly, random circumstance or the incompetence of others can instantly nullify one's achievements. The trophy Billy receives thus becomes not a symbol of genuine accomplishment, but rather a monument to the arbitrary nature of success and failure,

a child's introduction to absurdity wrapped in golden metal. Most remarkable is the film's half-hearted gesture towards meaningful consolation. The red fern itself, supposedly planted by angels where extraordinary devotion exists, offers no genuine comfort. It is merely a botanical curiosity marking the patch of earth where Billy's beloved companions decompose. The supernatural element serves only to emphasize that even the divine cannot reverse the finality of death Now this reviewer is not prone to whining about the emotional underdevelopment of today's coddled youth Discussions of generational decline and our society's refusal to teach children hard lessons or ripe fodder for old men with talk shows

But there is something refreshing. Where the word sorry, I rewrote this by hand. There is something refreshing about the film's bitter. Oh, excuse me. Sorry, this is just awful. There is something refreshing about the bitter existential truth serving as the film's core message. Attachments are temporary, bodies fail, and nothing, not love, not courage, not even narrative filmmaking convention, can prevent our individual and collective descent into oblivion.

It seems as though children are meant to absorb this nihilistic parable as a heartwarming coming-of-age romp. The film endures as an unforgettable initiation ritual into the awareness of life's temporary nature, ensuring that generations of young viewers understand that emotional investment invariably leads to loss and that the cycle continues with a frigid indifference to human sentiment until all of us join our beloved pets in the warm filled soil. Okay. Now... Dog week! I didn't know what to make of this film, I'll be honest.

I remember reading the book as a child and I watched the film yesterday and I was, I was horrified and shocked by it. Tony, Lake, what are your thoughts here? So we were given that what we were told we had to read that book we were in second grade and we read it as a class and when it came to the point where the dogs died the entire class including the teachers were like bawling in the classroom. Then we watched the movie and as a second grader You don't pick up on some of the things right and then she actually had a guy who was a coon hunter come into our second Grade classroom with his blue tick so you could fully appreciate what had just died that was over screen

I think that's what they were getting at yeah, they want but so rewatching the movie having not seen the second grade You just pick up on some things And I'll just I'll just go straight into it I couldn't the first the first scene of the movie they touch on they're like Billy's family his parents have this goal They want to move to Tulsa and take over their uncle's feed store. So you're like, okay, that's a thing You go to the whole thing. He gets his dogs. He trains them, they're great coon dogs. The dog, old Dan gets killed, that's terrible. Then little Ann dies. And Billy is on the ground holding his dead dog crying

that has just passed away seconds ago. And his mom and dad walk up and they're like, you know Billy, this kind of works out. Now we can move to Tulsa. And I watched that, I was like, sheesh. I forgot about that in the opening when they talked to the Mr. Kyle and he does mention that they want to move to Tulsa. Yeah, maybe this film is actually about the tragedy of capital and labor having to follow the market. And it's just a tragedy about how unrooted we are

from our homes because of the system in which we live. Tony, what are your thoughts? Well, I'm gonna piggyback here on what Lake just said. I mean, I caught that too. I watched this yesterday and finished it this morning. But also, I wondered when Billy tripped one of the brothers that fell on the hatchet, I was like, is that involuntary manslaughter? And you know, cause it was pretty, they were pretty, they kind of glossed over the fact

that this kid died in a fight over this white whale that he was chasing here. So when he's inconsolably sad and his beloved dogs have died and his mom's like, well, I guess we're going to do the Tulsa thing. Sorry, Billy. I'm kind of like, well, Billy killed a kid like two weeks earlier. And you guys didn't even seem to care. No, the next scene was they're eating dinner

and grandpa really wanted him to enter into the coon hunting tournament. Right, right. They moved on real quick. It's a movie about two dogs dying, but a kid dies in the middle of it. And that is sort of glosses right over kind of a prick. Yeah. Whatever the grandpa's like, look, Billy, I know you killed that kid. Yeah. And his dad was a bad guy too. His dad really drives a hard bargain. Well, I mean, but I think that was the lesson there, right? Yeah. So the bad dad has bad kids.

The good dad figures out a way to facilitate this coon dog situation with Billy, and it changes his life, and he becomes a man and moves to Tulsa. And I keep hinging on the parent thing. Before little Ann dies, there's a scene where it shows little Ann's distraught, and she's not doing very well.

And she's on the floor and Billy's trying to get her to eat. And the dad turns around at the dinner table. He's like looking at something he's got, he pulls his glasses off. He goes, just looks like the life's gone out of her anyway. And then he just goes back to doing what he's doing. You're like, God. Like that young boy you were.

Or when he brings back old Dan and he's like working on him in the kitchen table, he just says something like, I've never seen wounds this bad before. Needless to say, it did not hold up for what I remembered in second grade. Yeah. Yeah. I was also struck by how often I had to go back and rewatch a scene because the lighting was so bad that I couldn't tell what had happened. Right. I would like when I they got to the funeral I went I had to go back I was like what did one of those kids die did Billy die and then I went back and saw that the hatchet thing again. Yeah. Same with the the lion scene

happened very quickly. Right. What I want to know how did they film that? Like the lion scene? Yeah and then they're like they didn't have CGI back then. No, I think they threw a mountain lion with those two dogs. Yeah, trained lions. Let's see what happens. It's a homeward bound thing. Mm-hmm. I, yeah, I didn't think this movie really warranted a traditional discussion of what was realistic in it from an outdoorsman's perspective and what what fell flat from an outdoorsman's perspective Because I walked away from it and just thought oh

my god There's a lot to say and there's also not a lot to say right Yeah, yeah, I don't know yeah Sean Sean says why the hell do all the classic animal books end with death Where the road friend girls old yellow old yellow the yearling I'm forgetting a few but can't we have a few creatures that live happily ever after and like it is true if pets dogs especially I feel are used a lot it's kind of like narrative I don't want to say crutches because a lot of times the dogs are the point of the story they drive the plot but it's it's their their death or our fear of losing

them that just it's like a shortcut to the heartstrings You know, i'm trying to think of like animals that just like pets that are a part of a story That are a main part of a story that end up living throughout the whole movie or the whole book It's literally called dead dog writing. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's a it's a trope. I just but I I it's just shocking to me The guy was like I got an idea for a book. Dogs die. Here's the twist. He didn't have the dogs when the book began

and he had to get the dogs, but then the dogs die. That's it. That's it. Yeah, but that's a story. I mean, that's been replayed. That's been repackaged a lot. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a modernday Romeo and Juliet, you know

Is it died young? Yeah, I mean that's that's another story. It just ends with people that right I think there is something to be said for creative works that just end with untimely deaths and then that's just the end right now I think I think a good use of a dog in media that kind of subverted the trope But also fulfilled it is that kind of subverted the trope, but also Fulfilled it is that episode of Futurama? Have you seen a Futurama before? I mean if you okay on it's gonna be a dull conversation But the dog doesn't die but his owner fry gets gets trapped cryogenically frozen and you know travels through time That's the whole idea of the show But there's an episode that focuses on the dog he he had before he was frozen

mmm, and then the episode ends on the dog he had before he was frozen. And then the episode ends with the dog just waiting outside his, the pizza place that he works at without knowing he was frozen. And it shows the seasons, like time-lapse, the dog gets older and older and older. Oh, geez. It's incredibly moving. I will say, just as my final thought, the most realistic aspect about this movie for me was that the hounds just turned barking

into background noise. Like I was sitting there at my desk and just every now and then I would register that dogs are barking and I was like, oh, this is exactly what it's like to spend time around hound dogs. Yeah. Absolutely.

Just, ra ra ra ra ra. And then the one runs out of the house and just jumps on the logs for no reason. I was like, yep, that's the hound dog. Yep. So any final thoughts? I think we're running a little overtime for our next guest here. I wish I would have kept it in second grade.

Yeah. Yeah, some things are best left in the ground. On to our next guest. LAUGHS You sailed beyond the horizon in search of an island scrubbed from every map. next guest. chest. While you cook the lasagna, there's more to imagine when you listen. Discover best-selling adventure stories on Audible. Our next guest is a wildlife parasythologist and the director of clinical parasythology at Cornell University, Dr. Mani Lejeune. Mani, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Thanks for joining us. So you are on to talk about ticks and I think when it comes to dogs

we're thinking prevention. So what is the best flea or tick preventative on the market today and is there anything that's a sure thing, 100% tick preventative measure we could take? I think my first advice is like the local veterinary practitioners, they should be the best bet to formulate a plan for treatment or control of ticks. But I can just broadly comment on the drugs

that are available on the market. They can be broadly classified into two, like one that repels the tick and the other one that actually kills the market. They can be broadly classified into two, like one that repels the tick and the other one that actually kills the tick. The repelants, one good example is permethrin, as the name suggests, like you know, you apply onto the skin and then they kind of not allow the tick to attach to and take a blood meal and that's what they do. But if the ticks are exposed for long to this drug, they can in fact kill the ticks.

But the second category which actually kills the tick, like there are a lot of drugs available, the early version of those drugs, like they're a bit messy, you need to apply onto the skin. And again, there are a lot of safety concerns, say after applying it until it dry, like you can allow other pets to access the dog that got this application, as well as kids, like you know, they are not allowed to touch because of those safety issues and limitation.

The owners are not like actually complying with this drug administration because in some areas where like the tick issue is the animal issue, the animal issue, like it is year-long issue, you need to periodically apply this, but because of this limitation, it's really hard for somebody to apply that. But the newer version, they are really good. They are designed for rapid kill of ticks, and these drugs are available both as a topical application onto the skin as well as the drugs can also be given orally So that's the good part of this drug and and this drug class is called the ISO

ISOX soling sorry about the tough pronunciation of this But again, these are very good very good drug like, you know once like taken orally or applied topically and you know, once like taken orally or applied topically and they can kill the tick within two to eight hours depending on which drugs you use, they are that effective rapid kill. And then some of the drugs in this class are also non-acting like they are effective for 12 weeks and many of the drugs are effective for 28 days. So then you could establish a periodicity of this application and the owners can comply with. so I think like the new class of drug Which can be given oral is the best bet that are in the market to control a proven tick infestation

Gotcha. Thank you I would say like the main issue here is owners compliance The lack of because see that they perceive lack of efficacy is mainly due to lack of compliance with the way the drug need to be administered, following the label instruction or following the guidance from the vet. If everything is followed perfect,

the drugs are highly effective. Any drugs that are available in the market, they're highly effective. But on the other hand, I also want to say that no drug they're highly effective. But on the other hand, like I also want to say that no drug is 100% effective. Despite you follow all the protocol, label instruction, you still see some ticks hanging onto the body, so no drug is 100% effective.

So the big thing is following the manufacturer's directions rather than picking out a specific product on the market. That's correct. Gotcha. So the second thing that I think about when I think about ticks is Lyme's disease and here in Montana there's just in the news that we have our first known case of a deer tick with Lyme's disease in the state. Is this surprising to you or would you have expected this discovery sooner? I mean how does the spread of Lyme's disease look like from the chair of an expert? I read this news as well.

So Lyme disease is very common here in New England. I'm from New York, so New England states, like it's very common. And in Atlantic states, yes, it is there. And also upper Midwest is where you would expect Lyme disease on the ticks that transmits this disease. It's more prevalent in there. But the fact is like geographic range expansion for this tick is happening, not just for this

tick, for other ticks also across the U.S. like a geographic range expansion is happening. And now in that sense, like it is not surprising, but I read the news and it seems like they collected this tick from a hunting dog and then identified what the stick and also found lime in there. But it seems to me an introduction, it's an introduction even, I don't know if the tick is actually established in that. So when I say introduction, see, so there are a lot of factors that plays for a tick to get established in a particular geographic locality, like host species of mandarin. So in this case, the deer tick, if you have a white-tailed deer population which is exploding, yes, that's a place where this tick can survive. And not just a white-tailed deer, there are other hosts like rodents and even birds,

migratory birds, all those. So, and again, other things such as microhabitant that would help with establishment of the ticks. So everything need to be lined up for the tick to establish. So if it is just a introductory event, like it happens with a lot of ticks in different places. The ticks get introduced.

Say, for example, migratory birds, when they carry the nymphal stage of the stick, and they can drop the stick far off places. But on that place where it is dropped off, it need to be established. And a lot of factors play a role for getting this established up. So I can give one example here in New York like in Long Island

which is the east of New York City. So 30 years ago, Lone Star Tick which is not the deer tick, the Lone Star Tick was not known to occur in that space. But at the eastern end of that long island, it was introduced three decades ago and then they slowly spread and now the entire Long Island is like full of loam star tick. That's because of the white tailed deer population which is like exploded in that region as well as the wild turkey which can host the stage of the stick. You know they are also re-establishing in that region so all this played a major factor also reestablishing in that region. So all this played a major factor in allowing the loan start to establish in that area. So same could be true for a deer tick to establish in a place like

it has to have all these factors in place. So say you find a tick on yourself or your dog, what do you want to look for in terms of determining whether or not you should be worried? And then, like, what are some of the symptoms that would make you concerned if they develop after finding a tick on you or your dog as far as Lyme's disease go? On, for Lyme disease, you know, dogs, like, they're not like humans. In humans, if you have eaten a deer tick, it's easy to see that you react to it. And then you get the disease. And the bull's eye lesion, which we all know

can be caused by the introduction of the Lyme disease into a host, especially in humans. But the dogs, they are different. The disease are not typical. The signs are not typical. And sometimes the dog don't even different. The disease are not typical, the signs are not typical, and sometimes the dog don't even suffer from the disease, they are asymptomatic. So it is really hard to say if the dog has, based on looking at, the dog has picked up the disease or not. But other, non, what do I say, other signs as like a fever and arthritis, all those things can occur.

So I think like a consulting event is the best bet to confirm if the Lyme disease is present are some other tick-borne illnesses that dog owners should be worried about or aware of? Not just the deer tick. There are three other ticks that dogs can be infected with. In fact, I would say four others. The American dog tick, the Lone Star tick, and the brown dog tick. The reason one is the Asian Longhorn tick.

So these all can affect dogs. And they come with their own pathogens to transmit. And I just want to comment about the Asian Longhorn tick. So this tick was not here in the US and was detected in 2017 in New Jersey on a sheep. And this tick has a wide host preference and they are seen in plenty in environment where this occurs and as of now,

as per the USDA study, like 21 states where the sticks have already been identified but not to Montana, I think like Kansas and Missouri where it has been documented so far. But they can affect dogs and they can transmit what is called the Rocky Mountain spotted fever. So in Montana, like the Rocky Mountain Woodpick, which is responsible for transmitting

Rocky Mountain spotted fever to humans as well as in dogs. But I know we know like it occurs there, but if this new Asian Longhorn tick, if they spread to this new geographical area, they can be of major concern. The reason is like Asian long-horned tick are not like other ticks, like other ticks they need for producing progenies. A female needs a male, but with Asian long-horned tick, like the females don't need a, doesn't need a male a mate. They can produce progenies on their own. So if they hop onto your host, they can produce. They can have a blood needle, produce a lot of progenies, and then they can spawn onto the host.

And in some places in Virginia, West Virginia, we have seen cases where cattle are infected with this tick, and then they just drink blood and be host to death. So that's one concern. But they can also transmit Rocky Mountain spot of fever. So in new location where this ticks emerge and they can be of concern for transmitting Rocky Mountain spot of fever. Gotcha. Well, Dr. Lejeune, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing some of your expertise with our audience. Yeah, thank you for helping me. Thank you so much. Now our final segment this week is Throwback Thursday a Thursday morn' Stephen Brody take me back to 1974.

Throwback, I can't believe it, did I mention Stephen Brody our old-ass shed. That's the kind of stuff we like to do around here to have fun. Right? Listen to Phil's jingles. Pretty silly, huh? It's fantastic. Well, Throwback Thursday is where we each share a photo and share the tale that goes with our photos. Phil, who do you have up first for us? I believe I have you first, but I can switch it up in any order. Oh, no, no. Let's go with what you have. I don't want to cause any more trouble than I have already. Oh, so this is a... I had a hard time picking some of my dog photos and trying to assemble a story out of them, so I thought I'd... Dolly had an interesting hunting season this year. People ask if I have a hunting dog and I

say no, but she does end up going hunting quite a bit. This is her as a puppy being used using an FHF Bino harness as a puppy carrier, looking for some spring bears. And then over time, that was her first hunting trip, over time we try to teach her about safety in the field. Next photo please. We practiced our marksmanship together. Next photo please. And we did some habitat work, you know, giving back to the wildlife that we all love. Next photo, please. So Dolly joined us on a few hunts this fall.

This is a deer that my wife, Sydney, shot. And you can see Dolly there on the right, and then Rosie, the good dog, on the left. Next photo. The day after that, we helped my buddy pack out an elk and Dolly discovered her love for elk and elk hunting. Next photo, please. She carried the forelimb of that elk for about one and a half miles, and then mysteriously dropped it once we got very near to the vehicle. And then, last, I believe this is my last photo, then she accompanied us on a bison hunt,

and she went apeshit on that bison and just every little piece of trim that came off, Dolly ate it. And then she was very interested in the hide as well. So, you know, that's just sort of a nonsensical, nonlinear explanation of my hunting experience with my non-hunting dogs. That was lovely. Thank you. Beautiful. Thank you. Lake, I've got your pictures up next. I wasn't sure the order you wanted them in. I don't think they're in any particular order. So that's my dog, Knox. That's a real hunting dog. Yeah, he's one of those. Yep. That picture in particular is important because that is the first pheasant, wild pheasant. We were in North Kansas. It's the first wild pheasant that he found him, flushed him, retrieved him all by himself.

And I was, I think I was prouder than he was. I was, I was pretty pumped. That, okay. That's a special one. That's his first duck hunt ever. He would have been like six months old at the time. And again, I think I was probably prouder than he was. Next photo please sir. I like this one in particular because I forgot the dog stand that morning so if you notice he's sitting on the bottom half of a climber stand and that is a cutout square patch of carpet that I'm using so he doesn't fall through it. That's great. Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah. Fantastic. Ingenuity. Oh this one's my favorite. So that's my wife Lacey and That was her first duck she ever killed big pretty green head and it was just icing on the cake

I mean there's anyone knows me like I'd love hunting with my dog It's just what and so being able to hunt with my wife. She shot that duck and then Knox went and retrieved it I was so happy Is that I think that's it. Is there anymore? That was a duplicate. There you go. So that's the that's the archives of Knox, my dog. Good looking dog. Yeah, he's fun. He's a lot of fun. How old is he? Seven. Just turned seven last month. All right, Tony, we've got a photo for you here. So this is the only photo I put in because this story is going to take me a little while. So this is my, this dog's 12 now, but in this photo she was about a year.

And for people who don't know, I, this dog's 12. I have two 13 year old daughters. So I got a puppy, this puppy, when my daughters were one, which was a lot. So my wife and I still fight about this, even though I'm right. My wife came home and left a bag of groceries on the counter. I come home later and the groceries are on the floor and there's some wrappers strewn around because she's a lab, right?

We left her home in the lab or lab was home alone. I start looking at it and I go, man, this looks like a big box of raisins and they're all gone. And so called my wife, I'm like, hey, did you, she's like, yeah, I bought a pound of raisins, probably the only pound of raisins we've ever bought in our lives.

Dog ate the whole thing. They're supposed to be toxic to dogs, so I'm freaking out. So I take her to the vet and she spends all day at our regular vet and the vet calls me and says, hey, you gotta get this dog to an overnight vet to monitor it, keep the fluids going so its kidneys don't get messed up. So I'm wrangling two year and a half old kids

and this dog, take her to the overnight vet, which is not cheap. And then the next morning they call me up and I gotta go get her and they're like, I don't think any amount of raisins could kill this dog. But, so I load up the girls, they're in there, PJs, walk in there and Luna had never been away from us. So Luna was losing her shit.

And I hear this dog going nuts in the background. Well, I've got my two little girls who can stand and walk, but not real well. The vet tech comes around the corner, like she's water skiing behind my dog, who heard my voice and has the cone of shame on. Luna runs out and the first thing she does is run up to one of my daughters and send her flying.

And my daughter hits the floor where the scale, the dog scale is on the floor with her face. And so my daughter's screaming and has blood coming out of her nose. My dog's losing her mind. And I have another child to wrangle who's just watching the whole spectacle. So we get my daughter's nose stopped up, go outside,

I load up the girls in their car seats, because I was kind of discombobulated, I didn't have the crate with, so I put Luna in the front seat, and I pull out to rush our traffic, and I look over and Luna makes eye contact with me and just starts pissing because she was so hydrated and I have nowhere to go

because I'm in rush hour traffic now. So this dog's like looking me in the eyes. Well, I'm like looking down and there's just this puddle spreading through. So anyway, raisins are probably toxic to some dogs. For sure, not that one. Man, that's good. That's good.

Yeah, we accidentally, we came home from the bar one night when our first dog was there and we're eating grapes and we're throwing them up in the air and catching them. Then we started throwing them up in the air to Arlo. We looked at each other and we go, wait a second, aren't grapes toxic for dogs? And we looked it up. And that's when we did the first, uh, you know, hydrogen, right? Peroxide, shake them up and let them blast it all out on the back lawn trick. We'd had to do that with Arlo. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

So I tried that with Luna and she just sat there drinking that up. She's like, give me more hydrogen peroxide. Oh, like she didn't, it didn't work. No, we've used it a couple times. We've used it a couple times. That dog, Arlo, had a very similar deal. We made a bunch of soup. Like we made soup and stew and stuff all day and froze it all.

And so the trash had like 10 different pound like plastic wrappers from burger and you you know all the meat and stuff and then two Costco chicken carcasses in there so I took Dolly to the vet because she was like six months old and I got back and I The trash is everywhere. I'm like where all the meat wrappers right where the chicken carcasses And we go to the vet and the vets like I don't know what to tell you man It's either gonna come out or it's not Do you guys know if that's a breed thing or a size thing like why does the Stuff like because I hear the same thing about like garlic and obviously chocolate and stuff like that or some dogs can have no problem With it, but others don't it definitely is a toxicity thing that way

Yeah, yeah, because I will say, we always hear like grapes, like don't touch grapes with a dog and it's bad, but most of the stories I've heard are like yours, where it just turns out to be okay. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that you and your daughters and your dog were none the worst for wear after all that. Although the seat of your truck

sounds like it got the worst of it. It was very, it was it was easier P to clean up than it could have been because she was so hydrated Which was part of the problem. Yeah. Yeah, it was more the fact that it was like a 30-hour ordeal that cost me like a grand Yeah for nothing other than my wife Making that huge mistake and putting my dog in danger. Yeah, I would like to say gotcha Well, I'm glad glad that it it all turned out all right. It did. That brings us to the end of the show folks. Phil, do we have any final listener feedback?

Yeah, I thought I'd go back to some interesting comments we got during the movie club. We have Peter, he says, wow, Randall needs a hug and Jesus. Mm. Bradley says he might cry in pity for Randall right now. Brian Lammer says, what just happened? Wow, Randall needs a hug and Jesus. Bradley says he might cry in pity for Randall right now. Brian Lammer says, what just happened?

MD Outdoors says, JFC Randall. Josh says, tune into MeatEater today for your existential crisis. And Ryan says, hand on face emoji. And then iKilligan says, my dog stopped wanting treats, even the highest highest stinkiest reward treats and does not care about praise while training Do you have suggestions? Thank you gents Never run into that issue before He doesn't like any anything I would ask what kind of dog Right because I'd like to retrieve?

Yeah. Does it have a special object where it's like, that toy is my toy. Like there, you have to find something that cares about. Yeah. Yeah, and if your dog doesn't care about anything, truly anything, they should seek professional help. Cause I can think of some instances

where the dog not wanting treats might not be a bad thing. You know? Yeah. It's double-edged sword right Nick asks why are there still hot dogs left it's a fair point there won't be in about five minutes when we're done with this Nick the hot dogs came in here about 15 minutes before the show I ate three of them before the show and started on my fourth at the beginning and then I felt sick I'm just gonna be very forthright with the audience. I felt sick for meeting too many hot dogs. Next question Phil. You know we Brody had this problem

a few weeks. Spencer was in the chat and fielding questions and just throwing off the whole cadence of the listener feedback portion. He's been doing that again this whole hour. He's been answering questions for people in the chat and I it's we've and so we don't have a lot of questions to pull from. So if you guys have some this is your last chance you got about 30 seconds here. Get those questions in. Randall will have another hot dog while you get those questions in. I've still got this nubbins left. It's cold. Any more questions? One, two, three, we're running out of dog week here gang. That's a weird way to end the show. Thanks for joining us everybody. This has been a lot of fun. I hope you enjoyed Tony Lake. Thanks for, uh, thanks for stopping by. We'll see you next week on media radio live. Same place, same time.

Signing off. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.