The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 705: Fishing at 200 MPH with NASCAR's Chase Elliot

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

Steven Rinella talks with Chase Elliott, Seth Morris, Jordan Moss, Corinne Schneider, and Phil Taylor.  Topics discussed: Being a good driver; speeding tickets; fly fishing in Montana for the first time; watch Chase in NASCAR's Coca-Cola 600 race; what it takes to be a good NASCAR driver; not actually having a death wish; and more. Connect with Steve and The MeatEater Podcast Network Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. You searched for your informant. Who disappeared without a trace. You knew there were witnesses, but lips were sealed. You swept the city, driving closer to the truth. While curled up on the couch with your cat. There's more to imagine when you listen, discover heart pounding thrillers on audible.

Steve Ronella here. The American West with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the MeatEater podcast network. It's hosted by author and historian Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time, wild animals, native peoples in the West unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American West and he will help to explain why it is the way it is

Today I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history and I invite you To get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American West with Dan Flores on Tuesday May 6th on the MeatEater Podcast Network. Subscribe to the American West with Dan Flores on Apple, Spotify, iHeart or wherever you get your podcast, listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out. And I mean that in a very good way.

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Check it out at firstlight.com. F-I-R-S-T-L-I-T-E.com. Steve had a little incident today. No, I didn't. I did. Yeah, my fault. With Jason in the passenger seat. Oh, man.

Really? Okay, wait, turn on the machine. The machine's been on. We should get going anyway. Steve had a little driving incident today. It's not my fault. It's a little one. I always point out. At that place, I tell my kids, We should we should get going anyway At that place I tell my kids someone's gonna die here Well, you bout did from road rage

You know what I know Listen it wasn't I'll be honest your your compadres here Made it seem a lot worse than I was expecting. I saw like 80 on the speedometer. They were saying like 65 max was all we were going to get out of you today. That's not what I said. If you want that be known. If you go, I won't name names. I'm just saying if you're in Livingston, Montana, and you're trying to get a

westbound on I-90 at the main Livingston thing. There's an entrance there that is like the engineer that designed it should be shot or run over out on that. It is the worst highway. Yeah, it's not ideal. It's questionable. No. And I always tell my kids like someone's going to get killed at this entrance. You like, there's no, like, you're just there. You're just on the highway. I start sweating every time I get on the freeway. You know, I'm on your side, Steve. You can't it's the runway is so short.

You could be like, you do the little loop and all of a sudden there you are. And like dudes that don't get over, it's not like you can stop and then wait a while and then merge out later. You have to just go and they have to let you in. This guy didn't want to let you in. No, and then he wanted to have a little conniption. Hark at his heart and I noticed he got into an altercation. I was in my in my rear sideview mirror. I watched him having like a little blinker war with another guy. He was having a bad day. Just one of those guys, you know. He's one of those guys. I think that like, I'd like, I mean I'm entering the highway, let me in.

Yeah. And if you want to not do that. But how would you rate your own driving in general? I have the stats to back it up. What stats? Like I totaled my first car on a two track, on a two track, crashed a tree, trying to open the, you know the little windows in the back the trucks used to have? Trying to hand a beer through to a guy named Brian Peterson

and hit an old tree on a logging road. And they were in the bed? They were in the bed of the truck. They bought Got Lodged. I was about to say. How'd they do? But that was one of the worst things. So I bought that truck for $600.

It was on the corner of Russell and Riley Thompson, Dalton Township, Michigan. What was it? 79 Chev. Two wheel drive blue. Team Chevy. Hey, we're all about some team Chevy. That's the voice of Chase Elliott.

When I get to reading you about how credentialed Chase Elliott is as a NASCAR driver, you're gonna blow your mind. The better one. I'm talking to the listener. You won't believe it it how credentialed this gentleman is that race car driving you might you might not stay tuned see was I getting that oh that truck truck yeah so is that the corner Russell and Riley

Thompson 600 bucks, stick shift. Short box, short-ish, but we didn't have an eight foot box on it, which is a bummer. My next truck did, which was $300. Anyways. Regular cab, short box. What was the mileage? Damn, back in the day.

Regular cab. What's that? What was the mileage? High. I mean, I assume so for 600 bucks, but I just was curious. Yeah, a long time ago, this would have been when I turned 16, so it had been in 1980

19 no no no not 86 We've been 1990 that wasn't that long ago My first truck was a good short bad regular cab Chevy 88. I didn't have this truck long. Anyway, let me tell you what happened. Yeah. No, well, so I crashed it into this oak tree and smashed it all in. Matt Jones, who was a total gear head. Like, you know what he had to do most likely to succeed?

He was such a gear head. I voted for him. No one else did. But I saw in him like, I mean, he'll be successful at fixing cars and all this stuff. Yeah. He became like a hydraulics mechanic. Anyhow, I sold it to him for $100.

So now, and cause he's such a gear head, two days later, some bitch driving the truck around looked just like when I had it before I crashed it. Yeah. So I learned a strong wife lesson. Same thing happened with my truck. I blew my truck up on the interstate driving to college and when I was back for Christmas this past year I saw some dude driving it around. Hmm really? Yeah. Fixed her up. Fixed it up. Then I bought another Chevy after that, then I bought another Chevy after that.

There you go, Team Chevy. Yeah. There's a reason you keep going back. As you matured, your level of driving improved beyond crashing the trees. Oh, point being, so I... That was the whole point. I've never had of trouble with the cops ever Never had like a moving violation nothing like that you don't speed you never got a speeding ticket

Yeah, I mean you get a ticket for the crash No, cuz that was off in the woods I Rolled I had a condo line van that I traded Ronnie Bane. I traded him a Husqvarna 252 chainsaw and I think 250 bucks for van, rolled it on the ice, destroyed that and other than that nothing bad's ever happened to me. That's not a bad thing. Some like facts speak for themselves. I never even killed a deer. I hit one with the side view mirror, but couldn't find it.

He made it then. He might've killed one. I don't know, we looked all over. I thought for sure it'd be dead, but we couldn't find it. Tried to trail it. So yeah, I'm a good driver. All crashes off-road, none on-road. None on-road.

That's key. That's key off-road, like behind. That's key. That's what we called it growing up. My only speeding ticket was with you in your truck. Remember that? Who was driving? I was.

It was his speeding ticket. Yeah, in Wyoming. How much faster? Oh, I forgot about that. Speed limit. I was like, I hope this cop, some young dude, knows Stephen Rinella. I look in the mirror at some white haired old dude,

had no clue, 90 bucks. I've been let go, I've been let off on some tickets and I got a minor ticket not long ago, but I was doing a good favor. Remember when we did that giveaway where we brought chainsaws to all the dudes that are enrolled block management? Yeah. Well, I was dropping off my chainsaw and got a speeding ticket but he lowered it down to like barely speeding and I could just

take care of it in the mail. Now one time... I got a bunch of those. He got a lot of barely speeding tickets. Yep. I got one like, well it was was a warning a couple of weeks ago. And then you were, I mean, you know what my record is when I like drove 90 for like four hours. I still think about that Texas Texas road trip off. And she only, yeah, like Corinne hadn't driven for like 80 years, then like drove a car for the first time and only drove in the passing lane. then like drove a car for the first time and only drove in the passing lane. Between Waco and Austin and you guys about shit yourself. One time when I was working for Ronnie, same guy got the Econoline van from,

he sends me out with, um, like a lot of these guys that worked for Ronnie back in those days had felonies and couldn't drive. So you guys had to drive because they had too many DUIs to drive. Well, one day we were with a guy, it was me, a dude named Scott, and a dude named Bill Dutcher. And all I know is he just started working for Ronnie. Okay. He just is a brand new employee. All I know is his name's Bill. Okay. All day, everybody calls him Bill. This dude, Scott's driving. Scott's get cut. Scott gets pulled over for speeding. Cop comes up and he can, the cops can just smell a fish. He has a turn to bill Dutchard and something just speaks to this cop. He says,

what's your name? And all of a sudden he's like, he's like Randy or some shit. You know what I mean? And I'm like, wait a minute, because all day you've been Bill Dutcher, you know? So he's like, Randy. And he goes, let me see your ID.

He just knows he knows. And he's like, I'd left it at home. So the cops like, OK, and he goes back to his cop car, you know, and we're sitting there and then let's never good. And all of a sudden like here comes another cop car. And then he goes to the cop car in front of our cop car, in front of our car.

Yeah, that's not good. And they get out and tear. I mean, they tear our work truck apart. My toolbox, they went through my toolbox. I had a bottle of ibuprofen in my toolbox. They went through the bottle of ibuprofen. Thoreau. Find Bill Dutcher's driver's license. What did he do?

What she didn't have. What was up with this dude? Why was he so famous? They hauled him away. And you never found, you never heard anything else about it. I don't remember what his problem was. He had a warrant.

I don't know. It was just like he was a short-lived, he had a short-lived tenure. Evidently. That was his day. You got any good speeding tickets, Jason? I honestly don't. Are you a lead foot off the track or just... He doesn't drive a hot rod car around. I

don't, no. That surprised me. No. Somebody's phone's ringing. Yeah, that's mine dude. That's pretty normal. Oh, that's normal. All day long. Sam Bates. We were just with her. She knows we're recording this show. She doesn't care. Sam. No, last ticket. I mean, I'll be honest. I've gotten a couple warnings. I've gotten off on a couple tickets for sure. Do you tell him, well, I'm a race car driver? No, that's the worst thing you can do. Oh, because I think he'd be like, well, you certainly know what you're doing. Psych officer. Believe me, I know what I'm doing.

Exactly. No, but unless it's like, gosh, I just can't break the habit, you know? I don't think that flies. No, I think that immediately comes off as you're a smart ass and you're either going to jail or instead of taking your ticket down, we're gonna take it up.

Yeah, you're gonna escalate. That does not work. But yeah, no, it's been a bit. It's been a bit. And I'm a slow driver on the roads. I really am, yeah. Except leaving the racetrack. The racetrack, when you leave, it's a race to the airport.

Oh, can you introduce yourself, please? Yeah, I'm Jordan. I work with Chase. Okay. Travel on the weekends to some races. So he's a mad man when leaving the racetrack. That's not totally accurate. So when you leave, just want to get out of there in a hurry. Well five minutes can go a long way and y'all think I'm crazy about this but it

really can. So like you know the races gets over and people are leaving and you know obviously you want to try to beat the traffic. So like if you mess around there for five minutes it could be the difference in an hour Yeah, see what I mean make sense so Five minutes can be the difference in you know an hour plus so yeah, I'm in a slight rush Ready for all your credentials sure Chase Elliott won the 2014 NASCAR Nationwide Series Championship

becoming the first rookie and the youngest driver to win a National Series Championship in NASCAR history. You were driving race cars before you had a driver's license. I was. Did it feel weird to go get a driver's license? Mmm no I don't think it felt weird it probably felt weird racing without Like racing older like guys that were older than me and me not having a driver's license You know that that was kind of a strange like few years. I would say what was it observed? Commonly that you didn't have a driver's license. Yeah for sure it was definitely a hot topic, but there were other kids out there that were under 16 that that race too so I wouldn't say it was uncommon but it was definitely talked about no chase Elliott won the

2025 season opening exhibition race at Bowman Gray mark this is for 2025 2024 2025. Yeah, it says oh Well, okay. I just said the year he did he got oh, yeah, okay. Never mind. Sorry. I Thought you left the year out marking his first clash win. What the hell does that mean the clash win? It's just a exhibition race that that NASCAR holds every year the clash has Always been around the sport for as long as I can remember that that NASCAR holds every year the the Daytona 500 and now it's transitioned to some other places but it's just the name of the race. Because that's always been a weird thing about racing is you guys have your Super Bowl at the beginning. At the beginning I feel the same way about it. Yeah. Kind of weird huh? It's like you start out with the Super

Bowl the one that everybody knows. Then what happens after that? Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I find the same problem with it for sure. I wish there was a better way to have it positioned in a different spot selfishly because it is such a big event and it's such a great event. If you've never been to the Daytona 500, I highly recommend you at least go see it once. It's worth seeing. Um, but it is a, I always find it, the most awkward part about it

for me is answering questions about, you know, this is the Super Bowl of racing. Oh, so I just did an annoying thing. Yes, but that's okay. It's very normal. Well, I did it from an innocent place, you know? And that's, and most of the time it is, and it's just an awkward thing to talk about and explain

because it is such a big deal, but it is totally at the beginning of our season. And it is not, you're not crowning a season champion at that point, which is what the Super Bowl does, which is what the World Series does or whatever. So it's just a little different vibe. I guess probably more similar to say like the Masters or like the US Open. You know, you have some like marquee events

in the middle of the season that aren't necessarily crowning your season long champion, but you still become a Daytona 500 champion. If you win, just like you would become, you know, a master champion or whatever. So I think it's probably more similar to that, but. Rather than chasing the final, like the final top victory. Yeah. Just something just different. Just different.

Elliot is the only NASCAR cup series driver this season to finish all nine races in the top 20. I'm gonna have to. Yeah, that's not a great stat. That's not top 20. That's not doing a whole bunch, but I mean, it's good to finish them. No, no, no, no. it's not that you're in the top 20. You finished all nine races. I know, I heard you, but you want to be like, man you finished all of them in the top 10. Or like... Oh, I can scratch that one out.

Yeah. Phil can go back and get rid of it. I mean look, I'm not... No, it's good. I mean it's good because you're gonna have races that you... Well, you're not gonna like this one. Oh, great. He is currently fifth in the Cup Series point standings with two top five finishes and five top tens this season. Yep. We like that better than the other one. Sounds good to me. Yeah. I think, yeah I think that's a little better than the other one but not by much. Chase Elliott has three

total wins on drafting style tracks, two at Talladega and one at Atlanta Motor Speedway. Like that one? Accurate. Wins are good. Okay, Chase Elliott rounded off the 2024 season with one win Texas Motor Speedway, 11 top fives and 19 top 10 finishes. That's a lot of racing. Yeah there's 38 or 36 points races in a year so yeah a lot of a lot to put that in like a better understanding I guess. Yeah. Oh go ahead. Are all speedways drafting style tracks

or mmm what's your definition of a speedway? You're the one that used the word earlier. Yeah, I would say... Like Talladega? Yeah, I consider speedways like Daytona and Talladega. Okay. Atlanta is kind of an outlier because they recon... Atlanta's not really a speedway, it's a mile and a half

where Daytona and Talladega are you know over two miles so it's just they reconfigured the track and changed the rules a little bit to make it a drafting style track but I wouldn't it is now a speedway but it's a much smaller speedway than the others. A speedway means you get going real speedy because you have longer runs. Yep, that's a good way to put it. I'm gonna move this one a decimal place to make it better. Okay.

Named one of NASCAR's 7.5 greatest drivers. Much better than 75. Thank you. Thank you, I'll take it. I'll take it. One of NASCAR's 75 greatest drivers, but you're still young. Yeah, fairly. You're young for a driver, 29 years old.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not as young as I once was, but yeah, I'm still on the younger side of the equation. Who's the youngest right now? Who is the youngest right now? Who am I missing? There's some rookies this year Oh host of our don't know how old he is, but he'll be pretty young. Yeah, he would have to be pretty young How old are you Seth? 33. Oh Seth gonna give you some life advice great. I need it. I

Can't I can't ralph top my head but there's probably some guys in their early 20s I would say right now really okay you want more not really oh here's a good one who wrote this right yeah who did this seven time consecutive winner of the NASCAR Cup Series most popular driver award. You like that one? 2020 NASCAR cup series champion, 2020 NASCAR all-star race winner at Bristol Motor Speedway, 2014 NASCAR Xfinity series champion. And he's the son of Hall and Fame inductee and 16 time most popular, 16 times more popular than you are. Good chunk. Yeah.

He's got me covered. His father, Bill Elliott. Yep. More popular than you. Yes, he is. To this day, I would say. More popular than me. Is he a good dad though? Yeah, he is proud to this day More popular than me Is he a good dad though? Yeah, he's been a good dad. No, all right, so you don't have any complaints about him No, I can't complain much

Okay, Amazon Prime video sponsoring chase That's cool. Yeah free videos. You know, I haven't talked to them about that, but I would totally love to get a free prime Videos you know I haven't talked to them about that, but I would totally love to get a free no prime Subscription if it's currently Amazon prime It's still drafts off the credit card sure does Yeah, but I would think you do all that then you go to get a video and a ding you have $2.99. Yeah, but also, you know, I'm proud. I'm a proud supporter of our own product. So you know what? It's okay. Yeah. Um, no, that's a great, it's a great service. My wife worked for many years for Amazon. Did she? Yeah.

He has a few races coming up, but the big, big one is the Coca-Cola 600, which will live stream on Amazon Prime on May 25th. Really? Sure will. Is that the first one? Yeah, the first one on Prime this year. So that could be a pay to play on Prime or is it gonna be just open? Well you have to have a Prime subscription. Yeah but I mean if it's not like a added... No. It'd be like Thursday Night Football. You know for what the NFL has done the last what two seasons I think So yeah, same thing

You sailed beyond the horizon in search of an island scrubbed from every map You battled crackens and navigated through storms Your spades struck the lid of a long lost treasure chest. While you cooked a lasagna. There's more to imagine when you listen. Discover bestselling adventure stories on audible. Steve Rinella here. The American West with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the meat eater podcast network. West with Dan Flores is a new podcast production on the Meat Eater Podcast

Network. It's hosted by author and historian, Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time, wild animals, native peoples in the West's unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American West and he will help to explain why it is the way it is today. I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history and I invite you to get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American West with Dan Flores on Tuesday May 6th on the MeatEater Podcast Network.

Subscribe to the American West with Dan Flores on Apple, Spotify, I heart, or wherever you get your podcasts, listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out. And I mean that in a very good way. Corinne. You could have scratched this one. No, no, no, no. Cause I'm not going to talk about what the, I'm not going to talk with Corinne pulls together, people send us all kinds of stuff and Corinne takes her

pics of what she thinks she's gonna put into this. We have a document, if you ever looked that we're looking at a laptop. Well you're all looking at laptops and I'm not. No you don't get to and we like people to feel left out. Okay that's good. This one, this one dinged into my feet actually. Oh, so she found And she liked it the current likes this one from peep she likes this hit from people magazine is under the Royals column She likes it so much she included it in the in the talking points here and then tried to back out of it So if you want to get into Cren's head here's something that Corinne sees and she's like, hmm. Yeah.

It's this. Princess Charlotte. I didn't know that that was that kid's name. Yeah. I mean, I didn't really either. Princess Charlotte's 10th birthday photo had a surprising royal first, thanks to Kate Middleton. I'm a little lost over here. Somebody's got to help them out.

What part did you get lost on the document? How are you gonna bring this back to the conversation? The only reason why it's in there. We totally left. So, let me. Totally switched gears. Here's how it works. Because I was worried too. I was like, man, where is this going?

I should have told you. Here's how it works. We went to Princess Charlotte. We opened a show up. Nine out of ten times. You open a show up. And you'll introduce the guest. You don't really want them to say that much. You just want them to kind of sit there

and you introduce them. Then we do like interesting things from the news, corrections, listener feedback. I got you. And then we do the guest interview. Perfect. But if, cause it's on video, right? So if you didn't introduce the person,

people are wondering who's that person sitting there. And I don't think people like the part of the show where we do the news. Right, I think they want to hear from the guests primarily. So you want to get the, you let them know there is a guest so they don't all stop listening. But then what the part that we like is the news. Oh, that's good. So They force them to hang around for it

Yes, we start with do a little bit for the gas then we do a bit for us and then Then go back So that we don't take 25 minutes on this first news item the only reason why I thought it was funny Is she had a camouflage jacket? Yeah, is that it's the first, it's not like I follow People magazine number one, it's not like I follow news of the UK Royal, yes thanks to Apple News. She's got a, is that Mossy Oak? It's not an American brand. I look really really really closely and it's a British brand. They really bury the lead. Yeah, the news is that- Because the headline doesn't have it, the next line doesn't have it,

and then because they know they don't really have much. Yeah. The writer, they don't have much. I thought it was going to be a little bit more about how she was outdoors, clearly somewhere in the elements wearing her camo or that maybe it was gonna be like she was on a hunting trip with the family. It wasn't that, it was that her mom is an amateur photographer and took this portrait with her iPhone. But... And she's got a camo jacket. Yes and she's got a camo jacket. Moving on. That tickles Corinne. This is going

to be one of the social clips, by the way. I'm just letting you know. That tickles Corinne. I always tell my kids as Americans, they have an obligation to dislike that royal family. You know, because we had to fight a big war against those guys. But you know this young girl is celebrating the outdoors at something like them four. Yeah yeah. Or is it that camo is just a little trendy right now? You think having the simple act of having on a camo jacket is celebrating the outdoors? No but she's you know it looks like she's somewhere outdoors, adventuring somehow. Look who's celebrating the outdoors over here.

Yeah, we've got the camera over here. He was outdoors today. No, we have to have a background here though, so I don't know if I count. A while back, I made up a saying that I talked about so much that people asked me to stop talking about. I made up a saying, a fresh set of eyes will always find more beans.

And it's a gardening saying. This guy's wife, he wrote into say his brilliant wife came up with an old time saying of her own, uh, all leaves and no branches. I kind of like it. I don't like it. I'm not gonna use that. Are you gonna explain? Meaning an argument looks great or seemingly great but there's no structure or support to the argument. Yeah. Makes sense. I like that. I'm not gonna use it. I bet you don't use it. I'll probably forget about it in an hour. I'm not gonna use it mainly because I forget about it in an hour. Can you use it in a post race interview? That's a good challenge. I mean it's a good challenge for sure. In a post race interview you can say like you know what I always say

all leaves and no branches. All leaves no branches. I'd have to really think about that one but yeah I don't I don't think that one's coming back. A guy was hunting on Kodiak Island this past season and he got a banded, he shot a black Skoda with a band on it. It's type of duck. The band was severely worn. I've heard that those bands, when you see a band, uh, my, my kids' buddy at high

school killed a Goldeneye, a banded Goldeneye. You know what we're talking about? A band. I don't know. So one of the ways they really kind of uncovered the mysteries of migratory waterfowl is many, many decades ago they started, I don't know what year, but they started this program where they'll take a, they'll put them, they'll catch fledgling birds, they'll catch ducks, and they can also use, they can also

catch adults using trap nets and stuff. And they'll fit them with a metal band with a, with a number, with a phone number and a number. And it says like, if found or if recovered, or whatever, call blank number, because picture you got a duck in Canada in the summertime and you put a band on it. It's hard to believe now, but they didn't know how they went, where they went and how they went. You didn't know like where, who went where.

And so they would write down where it was when they put the band on it. And then they start all these bands start flooding in from hunters getting the ducks and they were able to put together this very detailed map of like ducks that are here, go ducks that are here go there which is not well understood prior to that but when a band gets to be a certain age it starts to wear and I mark Pierce was telling me that I can't remember which one it is oh

that diver ducks for whatever reason diver ducks bands get worn down faster than puddle duck bands. Or the opposite. I wonder if that has anything to do with like the rocks along the coast or something. Or it could have been the opposite, I can't remember. How long does a duck live? Well, you're gonna hear one right now.

Oh, here we go. Check this out. This is extraordinary though. Well, we killed a crane one time. We killed a Sandhill crane in the Panhandle of Texas that everybody claimed, once they realized they had a band, like everybody claimed to have gotten that one.

And it had been banded as an adult 17 years earlier in Fairbanks, outside of Fairbanks, Alaska. So he killed this guy, kills those scoter. He couldn't even read the band, the band of Soul Worn. But he sends it into the USGS Bird Band lab, and they acid etched the band, and they could find the number.

the band and they could find, they could find the number. Turns out this bird is the new longevity record for a black Scholder that son of a bitch been wearing that old enough to drink beer. A 21 year old wild duck. Old enough to drink beer. So what would average be? Two. Really? Yeah. I don't know.

It'd be an easy thing to find out, but no, I mean like a lot of guys, you know, a lot of guys you kill a banded duck and you know what you find out? They banded it earlier that year. Yeah. You know, 21 years old? They banded it earlier that year. Yeah. You know, 21 years old. Dang, that's...

Wow. The previous record was 14. Jeez. You know how many decoys and... That bird's been shot at. Yeah. 100%. For sure. In 21 years, you've certainly been shot.

Maybe even shot. Look at it now. It's a rod. They don't ban a lot of those. Oh here's something interesting this is illegal but interesting. You like illegal according to your driving. So I was talking about one of the most interesting days I've ever spent was in the south southern end of the Philippines. And I spent the day at the cock fights and um, guy here says, you have an open invitation to get ahold of me anytime you're in Kentucky. I should not read this out loud. I might not want to name drop on this.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True. Um, he goes on to say, I'm pleasantly surprised to hear you guys are interested in going to some cock fighting. There are tons of, he goes on, there are tons of hypocrisies by public and lawmakers, they're trying to make it a felony in the state of Kentucky. It's already a felony elsewhere. Is it legal to pile chickens and their own shit on top of each other their whole life, and then drag them out and cut their heads off and throw them in a sink hole?

Yep. But you can't cock fight. He says game chickens are taking care of better than most people's dogs. So I guess those who live run in these circles take really good care of those birds. The mung. Not sure about this one. Until the end. I learned that through my mung friends that there's the the older mong, cockfighting was very popular with the older mong, but they don't put the, they don't use a blade. Was I explaining this?

Yeah, they attach blades to the legs of these birds. Like fake spurs. Yeah, well, in the Philippines, they put like a scythe on them. I mean, they put a, there's a guy, there's like a regulation dude. You know, like in boxing Philippines they put like a scythe on them. I mean they put a blip. There's a guy There's like a regulation dude, you know, like in boxing There's like like like the kind of you know, you wrap the hands and everything they check it Like everything's got to be checked to make sure you're you know You don't have like lead inserts or something in your mitts, right?

There's a dude and like every guy brings his rooster in and and you lash those the blades on them over his spurs, this big stainless blade. And then there's a guy that like checks to make sure everything's legit. And when these roosters, it's over, like they jump up and do their initial cha-cha fight. And one of them is not alive anymore because they got blades. But what they're explaining about the mong is you don't put blades on them, so it's not. Yeah, so they're more natural.

You kind of judge it. You kind of judge it. And what'll happen is one chicken, one rooster, will, the minute he backs down, he loses. It's a, it's very, yeah, it's much more, it's a much more kinder, gentler cock fight. Cock fight, yes. Yeah.

Poor humane, you know? What is it like you take, like, here's the deal. They're, they're not incentivizing the roosters to fight. The roosters want to fight. I could see you saying you can't put a blade on him. That makes like, I could picture that. But if like, if let's say you're, you are at your, you say you raise chickens and you go in the house

and then accidentally two of your roosters get in a fight. Are you a felon? I was actually just going to ask that. What if roosters all mingle and. No, but if I bring a bunch of people over and we throw some money down... Then you are. Then you're in trouble. That's what one guy that wrote in explained to me about it is he says what's the bad part about it is the betting. The bad part is the betting on what chicken's gonna win. That's all.

I wanna clarify to people, I haven't been to a cockfight. I've never been to a cockfight in America. I'm not like Joe Cockfight. When I was living in Pennsylvania, we had 29 chickens and a bear. One night broke in, Jake and Coop killed 28. Wow. and the only one that was left was a big old rooster had like three inch spurs And I felt that he would have been a good candidate for yeah a cock fight. Yeah Only a good candidate though, right? Yeah

Then I actually I was checking traps one day and I had one of his spurs in my trap traps one day and I had one of his spurs in my trap. Almost caught him, but just got a spur. Are you ready for the part now? I don't know. Am I? First off, we went fishing today. We did. Yeah. Well, we went, we went fishing. We didn't get any, we didn't do any catching, but we did. Just think about that whole experience though. I thought it was awesome. I really did. You liked it? I mean minus the not catching anything. Yeah. You know but that's part of it but. It's a hard hard time of year. Yeah. With all the spring runoff. But it was and we talked about it some on the way up there but just being out there. I mean just you guys have such a pure

place to live and film and do and I, just the hike up and back was worth the trip. No, it's a good time. In my opinion, yeah. Yeah. It is beautiful. It's frustrating to not catch them. It is frustrating. And then, and you're in my situation,

you gotta resist the urge to be like, we caught one right there, we caught one right there. We caught one right there. When the cameras were two miles back, we caught one right there. Right. Yeah. It was okay though.

I mean, I, in fairness, you did put me on one that I missed and that was on me. That was on you. He had it engulfed. That was on me. I was late. I had an anger. That was late. It was your fish to catch. It was. And that's all right. I had a thunder. That was late. It was your fish to catch. It was.

And that's alright. I learned my lesson. Yeah. It's good though. Um, we talked about he started driving super young. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I was asking you earlier, maybe you can explain it. I was saying if you're gonna ask little kids what they want to be when they grow up, being a race car driver is like in top five. 100%. It's like, he's like, you could be like a veterinarian, they know about that. Astronauts they know about, they know about being a race car driver. I know it's just kind of odd but true. Yeah totally right about that. But at a point you, at a point it looked realistic. Yep yeah I mean honestly and I don't know how

much of that you want me to re-go over. Yeah for me I mean I never I truthfully never wanted to do anything else I mean it was always it was always my dream and I grew up around it my dad r you know, so much like your kids are living the outdoors and getting to do things that a lot of kids might not be able to do across the country, I was, racing was that way for me. I got to see it from a completely different vantage point. And, you know, for me, my dad was,

he was a part of the show on a weekly basis and it was just the most incredible crazy thing to witness and watch as a five, six, seven year old when you're just kind of getting old enough to start understanding or partially start to understand what's going on and it was amazing. And so of course I wanted to try, I wanted to do that you know and give it a shot and yeah so we started racing go-karts and then started taking the necessary steps and in the process of trying to make a path out of it and

Yeah off we went and fortunately had enough right opportunities and and success at the right time and all those stars kind of aligned to You know at least make a career out of it this far Were you drawn to it because like the way kids are kind of focused on their dads? Because at a point that has to go away right? Like yeah you know when you're little you know about your dad and you see what he does you're like well I want to do that because I like my dad. But at a point not that you stop liking your dad but you know your inputs become more complicated than that right? Yeah totally fair question and true,

because yeah, I think there comes a point in time where you at some point have to have some natural interest and you have to become, you have to have your own obsession with it, right? Or it's just never gonna, it's never gonna work. And that definitely happened. I don't know at what age that happened. Probably when things got, you know, we're starting to get more serious for me racing, And that definitely happened. I don't know at what age that happened probably

When things got you know, we're starting to get more serious for me racing. I would say probably 10 11 12 that probably transitioned from hey, I want to go do this because dad was doing it and it was really cool to Wow, this is a extremely difficult and and rare discipline that I really respect and admire. And that was really where I think the love for it, for me, exploded because I realized there was just so much more to the puzzle than meets the eye. And also that way more than I think people ever give it credit for and just the craft

and everything that goes on behind the scenes and I fell in love with that and that's really the reason that you know I enjoy it still to this day. You know when I look at it like when you're talking today and you're talking about like you said like use the word the craft of it right Like you said, like use the word the craft of it, right? And the processing, processing information very quickly, learning how to try to slow things that seem very fast, short distances that are covered very quickly to slow it down and understand it, like how you'd understand a long drive, all that.

As like a person not from that world, when I look at it, I think that the number one, like the number one thing going on is that I think these people are very comfortable with death. And I'm like, that must be what makes a good racer. Yeah. And it's, it's not, it's, um, where you have to be like, no, I don't mind. Yeah, it's not. I don't mind being right going 200 miles an hour, six inches off this dude's bumper or whatever. That's to me, the defining feature is you're comfortable with that.

I think there is definitely a level of acceptance to the risk for all of us. And there are certainly tracks that carry higher risk than other tracks as it pertains to crashes and injury and just the amount of things that can go wrong. But you know, to your point, you're going pretty fast on a weekly basis at most places that we go and things can happen anywhere. So yeah, I definitely think there's a level of acceptance with that, but I would say I could speak for probably

all of us in the sense that we don't get, it's like I explained to you coming over here, if you're driving 80 through downtown Bozeman, you're gonna think you're hauling ass. If you're driving 80 on the highway, everyone else is doing 80, so it's not that big of a deal. So it's very much the same for us. I can say there's really no thrill anymore about going 200. It's not like it's... I would have a heart attack and die right, but you wouldn't After you might the first time but in a month you'd be it would your surroundings will become very

Much more normal to you and and that's totally what happens so then it's like so the thrill factor of it goes away after time and and then you start focusing in on more of like the small little fine details of how can I push the car a little further? You know, it becomes such a, it becomes so much more competition based than it does. It's way more centered around that than it is like, oh wow, you know, just holding on for dear life, going 200 miles an hour and this is cool and crazy and wow Look at us. It's not that's that's just not the mindset. It's it's so much more competition related and and

the details that Can make someone Great versus someone that's good are the most Miniscule things that you could ever I can't even hardly sit here and describe them to you because a lot of it's just tiny little feel things in the car that you're feeling with your butt or with your hands or what you're seeing with your eyes. And that kind of comes back to the processing things.

You know, as quick as things are happening, the slower you can process that stuff, I think the better it makes a driver. The slower you can process that stuff, there's more to imagine when you listen. Discover heart-pounding thrillers on Audible. You had said something to me that I thought about a bunch since you told me this morning. I was talking about what is the entry point

for kids coming in? And you talked about like go-kart racing, dirt track racing. And you said what matters more, what matters more than like what it is, is, is it competitive? Yeah, true. And I started to think about that because that, that has like, I feel that just things from my life, like I went to writing school and I went to like a very competitive writing program with like really good writers. And you like, there's such like a sink or swim kind of thing about it, you know? And then even like guys that become, guys that become like really good, versatile hunters, like people you could bring anywhere,

like bring them anywhere, and they're gonna figure stuff out. A lot of them coming out of competitive app, like you gotta like work harder, get up earlier, walk farther, out smart, out think. Do you know what I mean? Like you have to like learn to deal, and then that makes it

that you develop your expertise. But I don't think people think about it like, no, you gotta look for the competition. 100%. That's my opinion, and someone else might tell you something different, but I think that when you ask the question, it's, well, how do you start? Like, if your kids were interested in it,

what would you go do? And that varies, because in some parts of the country, asphalt racing might be really strong and healthy and popular. And if it's strong and healthy and popular, odds are it's gonna be more competitive. Are there other types of racing you could go do? Yeah, probably so.

But if it's not as healthy and popular, then you're probably not getting the same level of competition. So I think it is very much tailored to where you live, where you're from, um, what part of the country you live in and what is going to challenge you the most. Because if you're not, if you're not challenged, you're, you know, at some point that's gonna, that's gonna beat you up. And racing's one of those things where when you get started,

a family could probably win their way with spending the most money to a point, but at some point that's gonna end. At some point you're gonna meet somebody that's as good as you, if not better, with the same equipment and then how do you deal with that and and I think that's a you know, that's an important piece of racing because it's You know at some point down the line that that challenge is is going to grow near and and I think understanding how to How to deal with that, you know to your point kind of that that mindset is is gonna help you one day I'd heard this story through my kids about a kid that like a buddy there's that um was like a dominating force in Bozeman baseball which is not yeah this

is not a baseball town you know so like you're dominating force in Bozeman baseball like in high school? Yeah. Okay. But then he goes down to Florida and then how yeah and you're like I had no idea. Yeah I mean same. I had no idea dude. Yeah that's exactly what I'm talking about like that exact thing that's a great example and I'll probably use that

one day because that's a great way to put it and and totally this along the exact same lines I was talking. Yeah you say that maybe kind of rethink some of that stuff be like well yeah why do all these like you know like Texas cranks out you know great football yep you know Florida Craig's always great baseball players and like is it like the water you know then why is it being well yeah it's like you're saying it's like you've put you've created a place for people have to dig deeper and deeper and deeper to stay on top and you

can't just ease on top exactly and you can do it all year long down there there's yeah that's a big part too we talked about that too yeah I mean that that's a fact for that that's totally a factor you know out here for sure For the, at least for baseball and golf, if you're into that out here, be a struggle to play for two months. Do you think, are you just, is it like more about competition or is it more about cars? Like if you didn't, if you didn't race, would you be, would you, do you feel you would have found some other thing to compete in? I could see it for sure.

I don't know what that would be. Um, but I just, I love sports just in general. I'm just a huge sports fan. Um, love watching, uh, I'm not going to sit here and tell you, I know everything about every other sport, but I certainly appreciate the discipline of other sports and, um, you know, some of the greatness and the greats that that play it or are part of it so having said that I could see it I don't know what it would have been I wasn't super good at anything else but also didn't you know

in fairness I never really devoted a lot of time to any other sport but I could have certainly seen me trying you know if nothing else. Competition trout fisherman? Maybe that maybe that. Are you good at golf? You play golf? Go check out those brook trout. Are you like could you go pro at golf? Oh absolutely not. No no. What was it like when you, so you go through all the, I don't know, I was gonna ask you, you go through all the steps that all of a sudden you're like, you know, your first NASCAR race. Mm-hmm. What are the steps that help me understand? Like what is like the thing you got, you know, it's like tea like like tea ball little league

You know, what does it go? Well kind of goes back to where you live and how you start but for me it was When I first got into racing, you know Which was kind of those early days of I want to do this because dad was doing it, right? at that point it was we were living in Georgia and There were some small dirt go-kart tracks around North, Georgia Just within you know hour and a half two hours of the house And we went and you know race some go-kart races on the weekends like good go-karts

Yeah, like fast you know fairly fast for Six or well, I guess I was probably closer to eight but seven or eight year old. Okay So like within reason we're not you know doing anything crazy, but you know, it was it was competitive for sure And also really popular at that time in that area, which was a good thing, you know kind of going back to our previous point and so yeah from the go-karts at that time dad was just quitting racing full-time so we moved out to Colorado and we were out there for two or three years and I wanted to race and the really the only thing out there to race was go-karts, but asphalt and road courses.

So did that for, you know, two or three years while we were living out there and really kind of came to a crossroads. Um, I guess I was kind of the reason why we moved back because I, at that point thought I wanted to keep racing and trying to race and there really just wasn't anything else to race out West or at least out in that area that was close. And you're gonna end up traveling a long ways to do it and didn't really have the facilities to do it and a good race shop and things like that. So we ended up moving back to Georgia

to kind of help me pursue the racing thing. So your old man got out of it and moved out west. And then all of a sudden you're like, well I want a piece of it too. And then he packs up everybody and moves back. Yeah, yeah, I ruined it for him. So sorry, sorry about his retirement trail, but I definitely ruined that one.

But yeah, so we moved back to Georgia and that was really at that point, I think that was kind of when it started to transition from hobby, fun, weekend, endeavor And that was really at that point. I think that was kind of when it started to transition from hobby fun weekend Endeavor to hey, we're either gonna get kind of serious about this and not that you can't go have fun because it was you know Still having fun is important But it was hey, we need to have an understanding like this is you know Getting more expensive and and there's a lot going on and.

So you're spending money for you make money. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I can imagine, dude. Yeah. And that's part of it, you know, for sure. Um, and, and that's the case for anyone in motor sports, unfortunately, and it's just to

what level can you support that, you know, whether people support that personally or, for us it was a little bit of a mix from, dad having a good career obviously and being able to help, but then we had good partners too, that kind of help offset some of that. But even for us, there was a point, and my dad was really clear on this to me at a young age,

he's like, hey, you know, I can, we can keep doing this like we're doing it, but it's not forever. You know, I'm not gonna do this forever either. We're gonna get to a point and somebody's gonna have to help or this is it, you know. And I understood that, you know. And so at that point and probably a little before that conversation I knew that and Really started to try my best to take things as serious as I could and you know still enjoy it But but just I knew in the back of my mind like hey, this is no longer a game You know not that it ever was but but it's really not a game anymore

And if I'm gonna make an effort at this I'm gonna give it Everything I have and I'm gonna make sure that you know, I appreciate Everything that all the people that are helping me do this right now You know give them my all and and you know try to make a proper run at it and So that's what we did, you know, and unfortunately it worked out So what when is it that you go and, like there's 38 races a year, 34, 38? 38, yep.

Okay, what was the first time you are in? In NASCAR, NASCAR. So my first cup race was in 2016. No, I'm sorry, my first cup race was in 2016. Okay. No, I'm sorry, my first cup race was in 15, and I ran like five that year. So NASCAR had a thing, I was racing nationwide, like you talked about on the thing,

that changed to what's now called the Xfinity series. It's like the basically college level, college football to NFL, I guess, would be the best way to put it. So I did that full time in 2014 and 2015. At the time, NASCAR had a rule that you could run up to like five or six races before your rookie campaign that didn't like take away your rookie status.

So it was almost like a lead into your rookie year. Yeah. So in 20- A mentor program. Which I needed and probably still need today. But nonetheless, we went in and at that time, it had been announced that Jeff Gordon was retiring and you know I was going in that car the next year. I knew who my crew was going to be and all that. So basically my crew chief, who is still my crew chief now, he and Jeff and Rick and I

don't remember who else but kind of got together and picked five races that they felt like was going to be the best five for me to go do. So, um, those are my first cup starts in 2015 and they were some, they were some good ones for sure. Those, they were tough races. Um, and they, they picked those for a reason because they knew that they were going to be challenges the next year and the next year and the year after that. Yeah. And, um, so, so, you know, that was my, my first one.

It was at Martinsville in 2015 and yeah, it didn't go well, but we went and made the show and got it kicked off. We had this, uh, former NFL player on Derek Wolf and he was taught. He was mentioned something that hadn't occurred to me before about, uh, coming up in the league is you're coming up as a rookie and you're young. And he's like, and all of a sudden you're on the field and it's like, you're on the field with guys you've been watching weird for 10 years. And he said, there's actually like a star struck element to it for some people where you'd

be like, Oh my God, there's Tom Brady. And you're supposed to tackle them or whatever. And he says, you're kind of like overwhelmed by, you got to put it out of your head. But all of a sudden you're like with the people that motivated you and inspired you to get in there. Yep. You know, it's got to be a little bit like that. It was, yeah, very much that way. Like, Oh my God, there's that one dude. Yeah, no, it was. I mean, you know, Tony Stewart, who I was, you know, a

big fan of and the guy that I looked up to, um, he was racing, he was still full time at that point. Um, you point. Jimmy Johnson, Casey Kane, all those guys were in the show that weekend. And yeah, I mean, I'm sure everybody's been through that, that's grown up watching a sport that has ever had the opportunity to go and play a race or be a part of it. And yeah, there's a transitional point

of kind of just being in all of being there to trying to earn your place to establishing, you know, your position as being a competitor to those guys and not their friends or not their fans, you know, anymore. And not that you can't like a guy or still be a fan of theirs but you're in there you know you're in there and it's a you know it's definitely a competitive environment and at some point that you know that totally changes talk about how something that had never occurred to me before um how blazing hot it is in there yeah it's a little little toasty for sure. That's like one of the main problems.

It is, it is. I don't know how hot it gets anymore. I don't, I can't remember what a good number is probably 115, 120 or something in the car. Does that sound right? Ish? Yeah I think so. When they have like a thermometer but yeah hot nonetheless and that's what we were talking about. You know, so much of what we do, I think is kind of hard to train for because what other activity do you do that, you know, the environment's really hot. You have an extremely high heart rate, but you don't have a lot of physical movement, you know, and that's just a, those are three things that are kind of hard to, to piece together.

But I do think from a cardio standpoint, that's probably the biggest one that can help. Hydration, I would say, is another one. And then ultimately, I think those two things combined together is kind of your ultimate goal. And all of it is just heart rate control and trying to keep your heart rate down. What do you do to do it?

Cause that's like a big, like you talked to a competitive spear fisherman or free divers. They got all these, they got all these tricks and methods for it. But a lot of times you're just laying on the surface of the water and you don't need to be doing anything else. Yeah. Like all you're doing is getting your heart rate

under control and focusing on your breathing. You can close your eyes if you want. And're in your buoyant at the surface so it's like you're doing all these tricks but that's what you're not doing anything else you're not moving 200 miles an hour right yeah so like how like do you actually keep your heart rate under control meaning through methodology or is it just mean that you just hope your heart you just hope your heart rate stays normal? I mean I think it's probably more of a mental game than it is anything and so much of you know another thing that I think makes a guy good versus great is the ones who can be most comfortable and

in the uncomfortable parts of the racetrack or parts of a corner and there's always a you know anywhere you go any racetrack or parts of a corner. There's always, anywhere you go, any racetrack on any given weekend, there's going to be a part of a racetrack that is the most uncomfortable place. Like that is going to be a thing regardless of where you're at and what you're doing. And typically the guys that are least bothered by that are going to excel the most.

And I think having your heart rate under control and being comfortable in whatever that environment or that challenge is that weekend is just setting yourself you know, setting yourself up better for success because you're comfortable in those positions. And I think that makes a big difference. What about the track that makes it uncomfortable? What about it? Yeah like you said there's like a portion of a track. Yeah there's typically a portion. What is it? I would say generally

speaking most of the time it's on corner entry. You know corner entry typically is the most uncomfortable part of the track because you're going the fastest as you're gonna go at the end of the straight because you're going the fastest as you're going to go at the end of the straightaway. And typically you go through a transitional point on track where you go from a flat surface to a bank surface, but you got to get there and you got to start your turn somewhere and all that. So you trying to push the limits of the tires,

whether you're right front tire, the right rear tire, you know, whatever limitation you're trying to push up to the edge of is going to be exposed the most in that spot just because of the lack of banking and the speed you're carrying at that point. Gotcha. You searched for your informant and the speed you're carrying at that point. Gotcha. while curled up on the couch with your cat. There's more to imagine when you listen. Discover heart-pounding thrillers on Audible.

Do you think that relates to hunting as far as like being comfortable in the uncomfortable, as far as when you're out, way out in the back country, are you comfortable in that environment or is it trying to adjust to? No, no, that's, I think that's in some situations that's huge, but there's also, it takes a ton of forms because if you talk to guys that, I mean, this isn't me, but you talk to guys that are really into, uh, bow hunt and white whitetails.

And they'll go in November and they'll sit strapped to a tree from the time it gets, well, 30, 40 minutes before it gets light out to the time it gets dark, right? It's maddening. It's maddening. It's not like uncomfortable like you imagine, like climbing up a never ending hill is uncomfortable,

but it's like, not, you have to be extremely dedicated to do that. Yeah. It's a, there's a mental game, right? It's just like, you're just stuck. What if you're like taking a piss, taking a piss is hard. It's hard to eat and like, it's, it's not hard. Like, yeah, it's not like you're doing a bunch of bench presses, but it's hard. Like it just mentally, there's, there's so many things like that where guys get into something and it just, or another one be people that are really like disciplined

about duck hunting, you know? And it sounds crazy, but it's like you're up at three in the morning, and you're up at three in the morning, you're up at three in the morning, you're up at three in the morning. Like anyone with any obsession pushes it to where it gets where it, it pushes it to where it to where it's kind of like lunacy and Just like they push it to where it becomes just uncomfortable

You know and then there's all the other stuff like cold and all that but yeah people do things We do this we do this moose hunt, which is almost like, like mentally, physically, you're not doing anything, but to sit in the same spot for 10 days, that'd be tough. That's hoping. And see, see pretty much nothing. And some days you see at like, you sit there, you go down, it's a 12 hour, 13 hour sit.

And some days in 12 13 hours you don't see any four-legged animals and You you every 20 30 minutes you call make a moose noise And you're like yeah, man on day 9 day 10, maybe One's gonna come out of that one's gonna come out of the woods. So be like, is it really that hard to sit? Yeah, dude it is Like along the same lines like if you're tracking down a bear like and I guess is there any point and maybe this is where you were going with it, but

Like whether it be concern of coming up on another animal or if you're trying to intercept the path that an animal is going on, you know, like a calmness or a sense of, I don't know, like any discomfort in doing that, that would be important of trying to mentally stay locked in through or? I think that the guys that are really good,

well, there's one thing that relates more to the, my initial interpretation of like, comfortable being uncomfortable is, just putting one foot in front of the other. Like we walked a couple miles today, right? Like, well picture that you walked five times further, six times further. Like, there's a point at which, like, just one foot in front of the other,

there's some things where that becomes very hard. And it really makes it that there's certain kinds of activities or certain kind of hunts that most people, and I mean it like, like most people, the vast majority of people, even the ones that, like the vast majority of people that would want to, cannot physically do that. Like most people, if you look at like, like going on a mountain go on, or going on a doll sheep on, or whatever, like most people, and most of the people that would want to do that, can't do that. It's just physically too demanding. There is a thing with guys that are really good is um yeah, it's not being excitable and and there's like

there's a huge there's a huge safety element. Like I can't stand when people, I can't stand being around people that are excitable when something happens. Like there's water coming into the boat. Right. Obviously there's water in the boat. Yeah. It's like, I would prefer it to be, um, Hey, there's water coming into the boat. Like, like, but like the flippy outy, like the boat. Like, like,

but like the flippy outy, like, I hate when people, like, like people that are, that's one of the things I tell my kids all the time is, um, I'm like pounding him, like, just don't, don't be excitable. Just calm down, slow down. Think about it. When something happens. Yeah. The other day I left a hand towel on the burner and it caught on fire my daughter like freaked out for a second and I put it out and then she said I She was bummed. She's like I should just put it out. I'm like, yeah, it's cool. I'm glad you recognize that You're gonna start doing that at home You should just calmly you should should have calmly put it out. But she picked up. Recognize it. Yeah. And that's not like, that's not specific to, that's

not even as specific to like hunting, fishing. No. It's specific to, to outdoor. And I'm sure there's other versions too, like military versions, fire stuff, whatever. But like you find it with, I was talking about Mountaineers earlier, you know, like, like military versions, fire stuff, whatever. But like you find it with, I was talking about Mountaineers earlier, you know, like guys that get into the crazy stuff with mountains, rock climbers, whatever, like they get a, they just get very unexcitable and very chill. And I think that if you do a lot of outdoor pursuits where you're in situations, like we spent a lot of time in big water and small boats.

You know, and it's like, it breeds, it breeds in you like just being calm, you know. Pilots have like a picture, if you had a panicky pilot, you know pilots have like a picture if you had a panicky pilot you know one like that no you listen to those you listen to those like the recordings black box recordings the guys that are going down they're not screaming and do I mean a lot of them to the very end are calmly talking about the problem. Trying to figure it out.

Yeah. And it's like that dude's gonna die. And he knows it. But still, he's like, we're gonna check this, we're checking that, checking on this, trying that. You know, like, I don't know where you get that from. I think that you, I do know where you get it from. There's probably people that are born with it, and then there's probably, and there's people that develop it and Yeah, I mean you're teaching your kids that yeah currently so I can't stand hanging out with excitable people Nothing wrong with that in any way like I hate it like that kind of like oh my god Chill

You know the hair is a bear over his bear come perfect we have to deal with him in a minute what else I heard a rumor that these days, that these days, it's 90% the car. Oh man. Not this. 10% the driver. The driver is an afterthought. They're probably right. What do you think about that?

They told me that. They're probably right. I said it's, it's majority car. Backing up now. Yeah. I don't think those percentages are right. I don't think that's exactly right what's what's the difference between like Chevy Ford Toyota just the motor mmm motor and and the bodies are a little different a little all very close now for the simple reason that NASCAR creates the box of which you have to live in.

And you, you know, so if there's a certain number of whatever it is that you have to get to, you might add up a little differently to get there, but you kind of end up in the same place. So like for instance maybe the best example I can give is like some engine you know so if it's Chevy versus a Ford you know a Chevy in the power curve they might both make you know whatever the number is 670 horsepower or whatever they have us restricted to now, but they might make a,

their power curve or torque numbers might be different at 7,500 versus 8,900. So you see what I mean? You kind of end up in the same place, but you might have a little bit of a different makeup to get you there. Yeah. I was surprised that when you get in there,

it's not like you have like a car. No. That is an extreme, very popular misconception. Yeah, I picture you got like a car, you got like a mechanic that has a lot of secret tricks that no one else knows. Not as much anymore, but no, you don't have one car. You have, I think there's like seven,

I think seven center sections are assigned to a car number a year. And then you can kind of divide those up how you want to and where you want to race them, depending upon, you know, like you might have a different, you might have your body configured a little different for a speedway versus where, you know, that would be a place that you would want to just have

as much drag off the car as you can get it, just to go as fast in a straight line as possible. Um, whereas if we go to say Kansas this weekend and we want to have more downforce on our car because we want it to handle better. Well, with downforce comes drag. So you might have that car configured a little

differently from aero perspective for Kansas versus Daytona. So you have these different car builds that you would take to different race tracks. Um, and generally speaking, we don't take the same car to the track two weeks in a row, unless we just really like a car and we ran really good with it. Then they might turn it around and go again, but otherwise, um, it's's gonna get a week off or two weeks off and they'll go and kind of remassage everything and you know put it back together. Do you run a motor once? Three times. Three times? Yep. And then it's done or do you rebuild it or? They'll

rebuild it. I don't know exactly. You get three races out of a motor. Three races out of a motor yeah which is more than it's ever been Hell used to they they would have a Friday practice motor a qualifying motor a Saturday practice motor and a race motor on Sunday And they rebuild all of them for the next week Jeez, are you serious? That's crazy Yeah, now I don't want to pry But he's going to yeah It doesn't need to be it doesn't want to pry, but he's going to. Yeah. Well, no, no, no. It doesn't need to be, it doesn't need to be personal. Okay. Explain the economics of, uh, explain the economics of being a driver. Yeah.

Cause it's not like you gotta go buy all the cars. That's your team. Yep. What are the economics of a driver? Just pick some random ass driver driver. What are his economics? I don't know. The best way I can describe it to you is, basically all drivers are private contractors to whatever race team they work for. So, if I work for, I work for Hendrick Motorsports. So I'm basically a contractor for Hendrick Motorsports. So I'm basically a contractor of Hendrick Motorsports. You know, I work for them.

Rick is my boss and he pays me. But you're a contractor. So you don't get like health insurance and stuff through them. No. You're a freelance dude. Yeah, you're in charge of all that. Now your contract, you know, you're not just a freelance dude. You know, I'm very much employed by HMS, but you are responsible for all the things you're talking about, like health insurance and that sort of thing.

Is it hard to get insurance? Not really, no, I would say, there's a market for it. Do you skydive or whatever? Do you like race? Well, there are a lot of race car drivers, right? And you know, around the world in different forms of motorsport, so there are companies out there that kind of specialize in that. Okay, so you sign a contract.

And how many years is a normal contract? Anywhere from probably Two to five, okay, and then there's like some kind of base component Or is it all winnings? No, they're there. Well it depends and and this is where it could be different for whoever some guys could have You could have a base number Some guys could have you could have a base number some guys could have Could be totally percentage based on on the you know how the races go in the purse of

any given race weekend Or you could even have a hybrid you could have a little bit of both And I don't think anybody's is really one in the same got it But then when you win like your names attached to it, but the team wins yeah Like when they write the big winners check they don't write the winners check to the driver. That's correct Yeah, so the winners check would go to the team because you know they're fielding the car It's their car, and you know it's their team right so they they're fielding the car, it's their car, and it's their team. So the teams get paid from the purse from NASCAR

for whatever the purse is or the winnings that we can. Yeah. And will you spend your whole career at one team? Or not you, but most guys spend their whole career at one team? I would say it's not super common to do that. I mean, I've seen a lot of people, you know, jump around over the years, even guys that you wouldn't have expected to jump around and do something different. Um, me personally, I would love to spend my career with one team.

I've been, been at it with them for 10 years now. So, um, I hope I don't have to, you know to go anywhere else or do anything else for sure. And then you guys are like, when you retire, you might retire at 40, definitely by 50, right? I would hope. And then you just kick it, you just fish. Maybe, maybe. It depends. It just depends on the guy, right? Like, I don't know that I could, I don't know that I could fish every day.

Like, I think I would probably still want something to do, like some sort of challenge or... Turkey hunting. Or that. But you know what I mean. No, I do, but I don't. I could so happily, like, I could so happily just screw around all day every day. And maybe if I could pull my kids out of school, if they didn't have

to go to school, I would very, very happily every day just screw around. But how old are you? 51. Well, see, I'm not there yet. I don't know. Maybe when I'm 51. But my whole life I could have very happily just screwed around all yeah, and maybe so I yeah to me man I picture like if I could somehow if they didn't have like laws about kids going to school And it's not as that that at the deal my wife to you because she'd like some be in school But I imagine that you'd like your kids wouldn't be in school and you would just hunting fish. I mean then that could work. Well you run into financial issues and stuff you know. As long as you can sponsor it, it could work. Yeah. Maybe I'm wrong. My wife's not working for a while right now and she's

kind of feeling the itch. She wants to work. Yeah, she wonders about it. She worked her whole life. She just only took a little break. She's taking a little break. Don't tell her. And during her break, she's kind of like weighing this whole thing out. Like, do you really? What do you do?

So she's getting bored? No. She just is like, she's having this... She's considering exactly what you're saying. And yeah, is this, you know, do you get comfortable in this? Do you then go and do a new thing? She's just trying to figure out what it feels like. Yeah, you know, if she turkey hunted and fished, it'd be probably be different. So that's her problem there. Yeah, she like, that's a wrap wrap she likes a lot of stupid stuff I was like

if you didn't like I tell her if the things you didn't like the things you like are so stupid that's why you're having this struggle if I was in your situation I'd be brave stuff and I'd be quite happy brave soul anything else you want to ask about share about I don't think so. Not unless you, I don't know, have anything else you want to cover. No. Hanging out with you has totally changed my, like, my perception of watching that activity. That's good.

Yeah. I mean, I used to think about, wow, look at all those people with a death wish. Yeah, no, I mean, I think there's a lot that is probably misunderstood about, you know, what we do. And yeah, just so much about the discipline that is never conveyed. And it's really hard to understand. And I totally get that.

And because like we were talking earlier, um, you can't go to the sporting goods store and buy a race car, you know, and that's so because of that, it's a hard thing to explain and it kind of is a niche, um, sport, you know, you really have to dive into it and be willing to learn about it in order to get the full appreciation for it. Yeah you're not gonna stumble into it. Right. One last thing, I keep coming around to the hazards of it. What percent of, like roughly what percent of racers have like a career ending injury or their career ends because of injury or their career

ends because of a fatality? Is it significant? I mean obviously as time has gone on I would say in all forms of motorsports the percentage of both of those has Decreased quite a lot over the years But still not impossible for sure Most recently Kurt Busch. I would say it was a guy that By thinking right. Yeah, it'd have to be Kurt that had a career ending head injury, you know, that, um, sidelined him for what he thought was going to be a brief period of time and basically never recovered, you know, from a concussion standpoint.

Um, he might be okay now, you know, but that had been, you know, I think some years had, had passed by. So things are a lot safer today than they were 15 years ago or something. But certainly that stuff is never out of the question. I think we all kind of understand the risk and kind of what's involved in what we do and it's never impossible. How dumb were the questions I asked you compared to when you do post-race

interviews? They weren't dumb. I didn't think your questions were dumb, but also too like you're learning about something you don't know anything about. Whereas like post-race interviews, you're being asked by people who literally watch it every weekend. So yeah, I've watched you do post-race interviews and I've watched, um, uh, you just, you kind of keep it, you keep it tight.

Yeah, I try to. Yeah, I try to, it you keep it tight yeah I try to yeah I try to you know it's yeah and also too so much of it depends on like how your day went and they like to ask about conflicts on the track yeah that's their favorite thing to talk about you know it's just conflicts and yeah because that gets them the most views and you still take just don't take the bait. They like when you guys get out and fight. They love it. Yeah.

They love it. But then they want to fine you for it, but they're gonna advertise it. But they love it. Yeah. You know, that's funny, because my daughter plays hockey and they're not allowed to fight yet.

Yeah. At what age do you? I don't know what age they're supposed to start fighting, but I'll feel in my heart, I'm'm like I wish she would hit that kid you know it breeds it you know yeah cuz it's um boys and girls mixed together so when a boy roughs her I'm always thinking in my head like I wish she'd clobber that boy boy yeah hey how often do you run into conflict on the track? I mean it just depends like you might get you might go a season where you don't

Have any conflicts and then you might go a season or you have you know, two or three or something Like when I say two or three, I mean like major ones. Yeah You're gonna have minor conflicts on track, throughout a year, probably a handful, you know, average on average, I would say. But it just depends, like it can go, it can go either way. Gotcha. You think you'll come back and fish

when it's better fishing? I really would like to. I sure owe it to you, I feel like. You did good, I mean, you did the best you could, I thought, I mean, you put me on a fish and I I feel like that's you did good. I mean he did the best you could I thought me you You put me on a fish and I failed that's on me March cold can be real good Depending on a handful of things Late June July can be real good

August get a little nasty and hot Yeah, the fall I don't fish fall can be you don't know I'm fishing yeah I'm gonna get a sign says I don't fish in the fall it's fair someone told me they have a rule no talking about fishing during hunting season so that's the months you got to come back come back in late June late June's the month yeah got to come back. Come back in late June. Late June's the month. Yeah, we'll go fish the high country. I'd love to. I really would. I'd love to take you

out and for real, you know. Yeah. Catching them. More catching than fishing is always good. You'll catch them now that you're all trained up. I'm ready to go. Thanks for coming on the show, man. Listen, really appreciate everybody for having us, for taking us out today. I listen, really appreciate everybody for having us, for taking us out today.

I know, you know, there was some work involved and all that. So thank you. No, that was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, we appreciated it. I had fun. I know we didn't catch anything, but it was still good to get outside

and enjoy what you guys have out here. So thank you. And then people I hang out with are gonna forever, for the rest of their life, be annoyed when I talk about what really goes on with race car drivers. Now, yeah, I don't want to know. Don't mark, Chase. I don't want to know.

Don't know subject matter expert maintenance. Not like that. It's not like that. Here's what it's like. Listen, you can tell them whatever you want. You can make up any story you want and go with it. You have my full permission. Listen, I spend a lot of time. I spent a lot of time with those guys. I'll tell you what they're thinking. Perfect. Trust me.

All right, thanks man. Appreciate it. Thank you. Good luck in Kansas. Thank you. Yep. Yeah. Steve Ronella here. The American West with Dan Flores is a new podcast

production on the MeatEater Podcast Network. It's hosted by author and historian Dan Flores, who happens to be mine and our own Dr. Randall's former professor. By focusing on deep time, wild animals, native peoples in the West's unique environments, Flores will challenge your understanding of the American West. And he will help to explain why it is the way it is today.

I count Dan Flores as a friend. We do not agree on everything, but he has had a massive impact on my understanding of American history. And, uh, I invite you to get challenged by him in the same way that I have. Catch the premiere of the American West with Dan Flores on Tuesday, May 6th on the meat eater podcast network. Subscribe to the American West with Dan Flores on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Listen to Dan and it will stretch your brain all out. And I mean that in a very good way.