The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 722: All Hands for Public Lands! (Part Deux: Redux) | MeatEater Radio Live!

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

Hosts Brody Henderson, Seth Morris, and Cory Calkins catch up with former Vermont forester and owner of Greenfire Enterprises, Michael Snyder, to chat logging and deer management, throwback to favorite memories on our public lands, get a roundtable fishing report, hold the inaugural MeatEater Pond Punch-out in a competition between Seth and Cory, and pick the winner of the Moultrie trail cam photo contest.  Watch the live stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel. Subscribe to The MeatEater Podcast Network MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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loud, and absolutely lethal. Go check out the all-new Phelps Carbon Fiber Beagle Tube available now at PhelpsGameCalls.com. All right, we're on. Welcome to the June 26 episode of Media to Radio Live. It's 11 o'clock here in Bozeman, Montana. It's 8 PM for Steve, who's currently in Tanzania, Africa. My kid's got to mow his lawn tomorrow for him. I'm your host, Brody Henderson, and I'm joined by Seth Morris and Corey Kalkins. Today we're going to chat with a Vermont forester about logging and shooting whitetail does.

Then we're going to do a little public lands throwback Thursday and we're gonna follow that up with some regional fishing reports and a first ever Meteor live fishing tournament between Seth and Cory you guys nervous. Oh, yeah big time. I'm not at all You shouldn't be no It's just gonna this is like Like just trail breaking stuff here. They get what you guys are gonna do today. No one's ever done it I'd be nervous if I was a fish in that pond right now. Yep. They don't know what's coming. Um

And last we're gonna finish everything up with a funny trail cam photo contest, which should be really really cool to look at Before we get to all that we're gonna do a little chit chat like we usually do. What have you guys been up to? Well I got a quick question. How well does Steve pay your kids for mowing his lawn? That was unclear. I asked my kid like what did he tell you you were getting? He's like he didn't say anything. So it might be based, it might be performance based pay, we'll see. Well naturally. Yeah, what, he's gone for a while. But then I found out he's got to bag up a bunch of grass because Steve needs to like mulch his potatoes or something.

Oh, that's, I hope he charges extra for that. Yeah, we'll see. Dirty work. So yeah, we gotta go over there and do that tomorrow. See, what your boy needs to do is just give them an invoice I know don't don't like let Steve set the price. You know that's a good idea. Yeah, that's great Seth you're about to go on a really long plane ride. Yeah, I'm heading to where Steve's at right now, Tanzania tomorrow morning. Yeah Yeah, it's I don't know how many hours exactly like

30, 30 some hours of travel. Where's where your stopovers? Minneapolis, Amsterdam, Kilimanjaro. That's not so bad. It's like a whatever from here Minneapolis is what two and some change and it's eight hours, nine hours. And then I think there's some little type of bush plane flight we take into where we're going to be. Wow. Nice.

Camp. Well, we'll see you at the end of the summer. I'll see you in Alaska. Yeah. Gone all summer. That'll be an adventure, man. You guys will have to do some fishing for me Mm-hmm. Oh, we're heading out this weekend. We're going after some walleye and perch this week

Just don't send me any photos cuz I don't I'll be jealous Okay, Seth would rather see a picture of a big walleye than like a lion or a giraffe. Yeah, that's true story. I bet Cory been doing anything fun lots of fishing and camping trying to get my seven-year-old kid into the lifestyle. I saw that video of him hauling in a trout in a boat not too long ago. That's pretty cool. Yep. He's pretty hooked now. We got him Echo's Gecko.

It's this little kid's fly rod. It's got a little fighting butt, fiberglass, four-weight, super easy for the kids to cast. Highly recommended if anybody wants to get their kids into fly fishing, it just makes anybody a professional angler. I was shocked that it could land these super heavy stout, healthy fish on the Missouri. Bendy fiberglass rod.

Yeah, very easy to fight. You're gonna use it today in the tournament? You should. I should, but no, I got my kid's other rod, actually. It's a little seven foot, seven and a half foot for weight cool Should do the trick Phil We got our interviewee ready to go. He is in the waiting room. Yeah, he's ready to go

Let's let's talk. Let's talk logging and stuff. Let's bring him in Okay today we're joined by a former Meteor podcast guest Mike's Mike Snyder Mike served 12 years as the Commissioner of Vermont's Department of Forests Parks and Recreation and also as state for Forester Today is the owner of green fire enterprises, which is an operation that consults on forest conservation Forestry and outdoor recreation. And he's also a writer who wrote, Woods Wise, an exploration of forest and forestry.

So Mike, thanks for joining us, man. Happy to be here, guys. I like your shirt. Yeah, purple shirt. Freaker, we had to wrap today for that. Seth, good to see you again. Last time we chatted, we were comparing notes on the old dendrology class. Yeah, sir.

Good to see you again. Thank you. Right on. Um, Mike, just in case anyone missed the podcast that you were on, can you give us just a brief rundown of your experience in the field of forestry and then we'll move on to some current event stuff? Sure. Yeah.

I'm a, I'm a forester. I live here in Vermont. I've been practicing forestry now just 40 years here in a variety of capacities over time. Forest science, forest management, working with private landowners. And then as you mentioned, I was tapped to fill a political role as commissioner of the Department of Forest, Parks and Recreation, working closely with the Department of Fish

and Wildlife on related matters. And so a couple of years ago, I stepped down from that and have gone back into private practice with my company Greenfire, as you say, consulting on a variety of forestry, conservation, outdoor recreation related topics. I also spent time teaching at UVM, University of Vermont teaching forestry for decade and a half, and have been writing for various magazines over time as well.

So it's a mixed bag, but pretty much everything I've ever done has been related to the woods one way or another. So like for all those city folks out there, like what does a forester do? Is it just like looking at a chunk of land and being like, how do we make this healthy? How do we keep this forest healthy? Like just like what like say as the state, well you said state forest was political, but like what's it what's an on the ground forester doing? Yeah, it's a good question.

Cause there is a lot of, it seems over time, definitely learned there's misconceptions. There's a lot of ways to be a forester. But the sort of boots on the ground, as you described the basic field forester is, as you say, it's the folks who kind of take care of the woods, understand map inventory, describe, and make decisions and choices about how to get

what people need from the woods while taking care of the woods. One good analogy I would draw that's very helpful, I think is it's rough, but it's reasonable, particularly when you think about Forrester as differentiated from the logger. So like the forest, think think of architect and builder. The forester is more like the architect, design,

the input on the front end. And then the logger is more like the builder, who actually does the tough work of harvesting trees, getting them out of the woods in a careful way. And so that's how I would describe it. Foresters just are responsible to the landowner and to the land and kind of agent for land and for landowner trying to hold it all together.

And, you know, forest health is the root of it, but also the practical realities of people needing stuff from the woods. We use an enormous amount of wood products, a wild range of wood products in our daily lives, even if we don't really know it. And foresters, that's the core of what forestry and foresters are all about.

Cool. Well, since you're a forester, and I'm assuming you worked with a lot of logging operations, so like we've established, you got some subject matter expertise. Um, I wanted, wanted to get your thoughts on the recent, uh, repeal of the roadless rules that in national forests that are going to open up tens of millions of acres of national forest to logging.

tens of millions of acres of national forest to logging. There's definitely like, I believe, some legitimate concerns around this, surrounding like threats to critical wildlife habitat and threats to the headwaters of river drainages that supply clean water to millions of people. but the logging part, it's not so cut and dry. You know, some folks feel like all logging is going to end up being this, this like ecological disaster. And there's others that are like, man, it's national forest. Like every single acre of it should be used and logged. Um, so, you know, we're not so reliant on Canadian lumber and you're creating jobs

and like that's legitimate too. Um, so like, give us your perspective on this and try to help our listeners understand like when logging is good and when it's bad, like both in practice and, and in location. Yeah, there's not too much. Yeah, there's a lot to talk about there. No, wait, we got a couple hours? Yeah.

There's a lot there, right? And so it's like so many things, particularly in nature or wherever biology or ecology involve people and policy seem to really want black and white one size fits all kind of policies and approaches and statements. And forests, all biological systems, they just don't do that.

And so here where we're talking about logging, habitats, management, it's complicated. So I would start there and then say, it's nowhere near as simple or black and white as any of us might wanna say as when we go to our respective corners and sort of hunker down. Let's start with, I would start with the forests

are incredible, they're complex, they're diverse, they're dynamic and they don't need us. They're just fine and they're gonna be fine. But the fact is we need them. And we have been involved with forests for forever. There's never been a time in the history of people when people weren't utterly dependent on wood for a variety of things, basic needs.

And that continues. There's no reason to think that's ever gonna change. So we have this relationship. And on the one hand, we'd like to say, let's set it aside and leave it be. And then there's the more Leopoldian kind of approach of like, we're part of this community. And that's where forestry comes in.

And that's where we have to start thinking with public lands, national forests, the intent is very clear for this multi-use mandate and for wood supply. And so then we just further get into like, well, what, where, when, for what reasons. And proposals to generally speaking, whether it's roadless rule or doing away with pesky regulations as it's been called, but just basically an executive order that says, let's increase the amount of timber supply, domestic supply. On its face, I'd say there's some good stuff there.

It's reasonable to up our production of domestic wood. We have the resource. We have the wood base. We have the technology. We have the expertise to do it really well. So any given place where there's a proposal on public lands for logging, it's not logging just because somebody doesn't like trees or enjoys cutting them down.

It's to meet massive demands, societal demands and economic needs. And so you gotta look at each one. And I would also just say that the public lands managers, the foresters, and biologists, and hydrologists that work on public lands that propose and vet logging projects, they're more than logging projects. They're forest management projects.

And logging is a tool to affect various changes in the forest, to tweak forest health, to reduce fuel loads, to enhance habitat, to protect water quality. And the wood that comes off is this wonderful byproduct. But these are the most regulated, the most scrutinized, the quality of silvicultural planning and then implementation. It's the best anywhere, certainly more than on private lands or industrial lands. And so, you know, I would encourage folks to relax a little bit and then look into the details of any given proposal. And then lastly, I would just say,

this idea that, well, let's just increase domestic supply. That's, for me, that would, that may, as I said, that makes sense on the surface, but that's not what is wrong with or what plagues rural communities where, that depend on harvesting, like we've lost mills, we've lost workforce, the loggers, the truckers, we lost the mills, the secondary manufacturing facilities. And we can dump a lot of wood back into the system, but there aren't loggers, there aren't truckers,

there aren't mills and processing facilities to process, produce material from those, then it doesn't do us any good. So that's my big point in all of this is we can get all hot and bothered about any given logging project, but it doesn't matter if we don't have, the real policy shifts are in workforce and education,

rural redevelopment, investment in these facilities that have this conservation effect on the landscape. That's my big point here would be that forestry is a conservation tool that keeps forests forests. And it's counterintuitive to most people that we can save forests by cutting trees, but we meet our needs with wood being better than all the alternative materials,

plastics, plastics, steel, concrete. And that's what we got to get over is that people, survey after survey show that people really truly love wood and people say that wood is the most sustainable material of all. They're right. But then they say that logging and forestry are the least sustainable. So this is where we got to lean in. People love wood,

but they don't like how we get wood. And that's a big problem. Public lands can play a role in supplying wood and helping us realize that it's done well. It's complicated. And yeah, I guess I'll pause there. I know I spit out a lot there. That's all right. There's a ton. We had plenty of time there. We had plenty of time. Let's let's jump into hunting next, Mike, if we can. Vermont recently expanded doe hunting opportunities in order to address some overpopulation issues, I'm assuming. And state biologists and ecologists kind of agree that keeping deer numbers in check would lead to healthier herds, healthier forests. We've seen a lot of states go this route in the

past couple of decades. And the hunting community, like in general, I would say, has embraced killing has embraced killing more whitetail does as a management tool. But I heard that some Vermont hunters were very opposed to increasing dough harvest. So we're going to get your thoughts there. Like when I was a kid in Pennsylvania, a lot of the old timers frowned on killing doughs because they thought that meant less bucks in the future. I don't know if it was that way for you, Seth. Same. But again, like I feel like in the last couple of decades,

last decade for sure, I think most white till hunters have turned the corner on that. So it's interesting to me that there's still, you know, a widespread stigma against killing does in Vermont. It's yeah, you nailed it. And this is it's so Vermont as of now, we have antlerless, you know, with archery. And there's a lottery system for antlerless tags for muzzleloader.

But it's verboten. There's never you know, you don't shoot those during the rifle season. And that's what has recently looks like it's changing. So, and Vermont is the only state in the Northeast, I think all the way through Pennsylvania, down in Virginia, that doesn't still doesn't allow any antlerless rifle hunting. And so the Fish and Wildlife Board, the Vermont Fish and Wildlife Board that is charged with setting regulations and developing and enacting those regulations for hunting and fishing and trapping, things like seasons,

bag limits, methods of taking, license fees, that's the body that makes these decisions. And last time, it's been 40 years since there was any doe season. And that's back in the mid-'80s during rifle. And it was highly contentious then. There were more deer and more hunters then. And so you're right. Now they have these deer density targets for various management units around the state.

And they're finding that we have fewer hunters and more deer. And that's a problem for habitat and for healthy forests. And so they've been suggesting this and it's been no, no, no, no, no, no. The philosophy, the traditional philosophy is you don't shoot down. And so a couple weeks ago at its last board meeting, the department proposed about seven changes to the deer management rule and the board, well, so this was the second vote. In February, they voted. That's the first vote to say, okay, let's go forward with public comment and the process.

And that opened up this can of worms and it's very contentious. And many of my buddies, hunting pals, they're dead set against it. But they went for it and they came back and then two weeks ago they had a meeting, they had a vote and it was highly contentious and it's a 14 member board

and this component passed eight, six. And so with quite a lot of controversy and contention. So that's the second vote. That is the most important meaningful vote. It now goes to the legislative committee on administrative rules, and then it'll go back to the board for the third vote, which is usually kind of pro forma.

So it's not, is it not a done deal yet? Correct, that's what I'm trying to say. Okay. This is the big step just happened, which, you know, I spoke with the director of Fish and Wildlife yesterday and indicated this generally means it's going forward. But yeah, there are a couple more steps and then it would go into effect if passed fully. And as it is expected to do now, this was the last big hurdle. It'll be fall of 26 where these go into effect. And there's a number of related rules, but this was the big one, the antlerless permits to

be used during the regular 16 day rifle season in November. Has Vermont experienced, like, is there deer herd, like on a big upward climb? Like there's like, is there too many? I mean, too many is obviously, you know, it depends on who you're talking to. It is, and it's amazing, right? This is a small state, you guys are in

Montana, this is a really small state. And yet even here, we have wide ranging habitat conditions and population. So by management unit around the state, there are some that have the biologists even indicate the we foresters have been kind of whining about this for some time, or locally overabundant, leading to significant overbrowsing, which is not good for forests, but it's certainly not good for deer. So yes, in some places, and that's why they want to do this,

these deer density unit targets by unit. But this reg would apply to all but the far northeastern portion of the state, because generally the population trends are going up, deer effort, hunter effort is down, winter severity is down, you know, the various factors they put into their model which are all pointing to our increased herd size, decreased hunting and wanting to get this back in balance with their habitat. Right. Well, myself, I hope it goes through. I think people tend to forget about this kind of stuff fairly quickly. And, you know, in 10 years, if the doe hunting thing goes through, it won't be an issue anymore. That's my take on it anyway.

And I think, you know, like you say, it's contentious and there's a lot of folks that are not into it. There have been ones made at this over the last, you know, like you say, it's contentious and there's a lot of folks that are not into it. There have been ones made at this over the last few decades. And they do surveys and it's been slowly changing where hunters are saying, you know, before it was everybody was against it, then there's some for it. And now it's about half. And the board heard from their constituents ultimately, and I think for some of them, it was really hard. But there's still a bunch who say it's really a safety issue they you know Vermont was behind in this regard as well we don't require hunter orange and so they're sort of brownies down fear and it's gonna be crazy out there come rifle season and I as I understand it that's a big piece of the the the concerns against even because the culture has shifted, as you suggest, to, well, we get this a little bit more now, that maybe we need to shoot some does a bit more than just with bow and arrow. Yep. Yep. All right. I understand that you're going on the hunt of a

lifetime this fall out in our area. And one of our country's most impressive public land destinations, the Bob Marshall Wilderness. What are you going after? Deer, elk? Are you doing this on your own? Are you getting a guide? Tell us about this hunt. Yeah, I'm so excited.

And you rightly called it a hunt of a lifetime. This is not something I've done. I've hunted in Montana and in the West elsewhere, but this is a pack string hunt, guided, fully outfitted. We're going in the Bob Marshall, seven days hunting, deer, elk, three good buddies, excellent hunters that I have been. We're more trackers here in the Northeast. We don't sit on stands. This is just going to be super

different. I have to say, each one of us is completely freaked out at the prospect of being lame for three or four days after being on a horse. I know which end the food goes in and I think I'm pretty sure which end the food comes out. That's the end of my horsemanship food comes out. That's the end of my horsemanship knowledge. Well, I mean, the Bob is a super cool place. So that alone will make the trip worth it for you, I think. Exactly. That's how we see it. It's like, no matter what, this is going to be great, right? I mean, just great. Watch out for grizzlies.

I'll give you any tips you guys have for getting ready for this. Well, Cory here used to guide in the Bob. So. Yeah, Mike, I guided in there for a decade. I'm not going to ask where you're going because it's all gnarly and rugged. But yeah, get ready for the toughest hunt of your life. I'm ready. I'm going to be ready. It's this is super motivating, right? I mean, and then you're talking with the outfitter just like I don't know.

Most of I don't shoot at 400 yards very often. I don't even know how to train for that. So that's my biggest fear is sort of being ready for a good shot at a distance because that's just not something that I have a lot of experience with. Well, yeah, depending on what end of the wilderness you're in, the area I was in, our average shot was 60 to 80 yards with a rifle. That's what I'm talking about. Because we're hunting during the rut, as you know. So, right. This is just so exciting. I don't know if I dropped that to somebody. I'm really glad you brought it up. You can imagine my excitement, right?

Yep. Well, Mike, thanks for checking in with us and good luck on that hunt. Yeah. Good luck, Mike. Thanks guys. Take care. Take it easy. Now available, the all new Belps carbon fiber Beagle tube. Is this the best Beagle tube ever? Well, in order to be so, it would have to sound the best, be the lightest, be the loudest, be easy to run,

be silent when moving through the brush, be the most durable, and it would have to be made out of the best materials available. Well, check, check, check and check. This tube checks all of those boxes. Oh yeah, and it's a beautiful work of art. The Phelps Carbon Fiber Beagle Tube is light, quiet, loud, and absolutely lethal. Go check out the all new Phelps Carbon Fiber Beagle Tube available now at phelpsgamecalls.com. Man, unless you've been living under a rock in like Senator Mike Lee's backyard,

you probably know what's going on with his attempts to sell off our public lands. It's like ever changing. There's been like three different versions of it this week, but he's still going after that stuff. But just in case you're not aware of what's going on, like hop on our website, read the article, follow Cal on Instagram, and he'll keep you up to date.

But just to show people how important this stuff is and what's at stake, me and the boys here are going to remind you about it and share some of our favorite public land hunting. Did you guys do any fishing or just hunting? I just did hunting slash, yeah. Mine's neither. Yours is neither.

I threw a little twist in there. You threw a little twist, a little hiking, biking kind of stuff. Hiking, yep, not of stuff hiking. Yep. Not a bike gotcha Anyway, we're gonna share some pictures and tell a little story and kind of let you know why public lands are important to us Cory since since you're not a hunter anymore. Why don't you start off? Well, I'm gonna throw this all the way back to last. Did I screw you up there, Phil, by having Cory go first? Probably.

Oh no, it's fine. I can, I can change things on the fly. It's all right. Feels like a chameleon. He can adapt. Uh, anyway, I'm going to throw this all the way back to last week, last Wednesday. Long time ago. Yeah.

Uh, few colleagues and myself teamed up with the Station Foundation, which is an amazing organization made up of special operations vets and other highly trained professionals that help transition our nation's special ops forces and their families get back to normal civilian life, which includes a multi-day retreat here in Montana, which includes one day of hiking this 10,000 foot peak just south of Bozeman. So three of us from MeatEater here. Is that within the five mile corridor or whatever border thing that Mike leaves like, oh, not quite, not quite, but it's close. It's close to town. Yeah. And from the top, I mean, you can see one of our busier towns in this city, or excuse

me, in the state of Montana, not Bozeman, but anyway, it was a really amazing experience. There was 30 of us that summited this peak, kids ranging from 8 to 15, I think, and then a bunch of their dads and some of the other volunteers for the Station Foundation climbed this 10,000 foot peak hats off to all those kids who made it up there my seven year old kid wouldn't have made it halfway up there and there are these eight year old kids who just kicked its ass last Wednesday a beautiful day couldn't have had better weather there's a view all that that you can see right there in that photo is public land so keep your hands off of it. Damn it. Nice. Seth, what do you got for us?

Oh, I got a photo of a mountain lion. This is the first mountain lion I've ever encountered in my life. I've seen multiple since then, but this was 2017, I believe, was hunting, this was during archery season in September in Montana here, hunting some public land, national forest, and, uh, weren't hearing many bugles that day. Um, so we're kind of just still hunting through some timber and, um, kind of out of nowhere, a few cows and a couple of calf, L kind of filtered past us. So we kind of hunkered down thinking, you know, there might be a bull behind them or whatnot and we're... This was all pretty new experience for you. Oh yeah this was my first archery season. Like all this

public land to just go. Yeah yeah I moved in 2016 but this was the first time I had like my resident license for archery season. Um, and so these, these elk kind of move past us and we hunkered down just to see what was going to happen next. And, um, I kind of look over and I see something brown, like moving kind of on the same trail where these elk could just come by. It's probably, I don't know, maybe a minute later and sure shit. It was this mountain lion and it was like hunting those elk. Um, which was cool.

And this photo here was taken through a pair of binoculars with a cell phone. Um, it turned out pretty good. Yeah, it turned out pretty good. And, uh, so this thing, it came, it came to about 50 yards of us. And once it like noticed we were there, it like did the, like the cat just like hunker, like it just sunk to the ground, like put its belly on the ground and just sat there for a couple of minutes, just staring at us and like, we weren't moving. So it, it, I don't think it really knew what we were at first. And then finally it just like got up and ran off. But yeah, it was, that's one.

It was so cool. Yeah. It was awesome experience. Sweet. All on public land. Yep. I shot. I guess that leaves me. This year is going to be, it'll be 20 years I've been out west it'll be 20 years I've been out West, um, hunting and, um, man, I don't know. Like, I, like, let's say I've in 20 years I've killed, I don't know, let's, let's say like 50 big game animals or something like that. I think only four or maybe five of those animals were, were killed on private land. I don't, I've got nothing against hunting on private land. That's how I grew up. Um, but when I came out and to the West and was like, I have all this

stuff to hunt and 20 years later, here I am, um, these pictures, um, are my, my older boy, his firsts that he's had on all on public land in the last few years. So like, this is his first ever deer, mule deer buck, uh, that he got on public land. Um, I don't know what Phil has, has teed up next. This was his first elk last year on public land. Um, antelope that's his first day. And it was his little bro there with him. Um,

and then I think the last photos, me and him, he, we, we doubled on turkeys last year. Um, the reason I picked these photos is because like those firsts are super important. And like that kid only knows hunting on public land. Like we don't have a bunch of friends with big private ranches and access to a bunch of private land. Like this is how this kid hunts and if that stuff gets taken away, that's getting taken away from him. I'm not so worried about myself, you know, but like those opportunities will be taken away from him and a bunch of other kids and first-time hunters and you know on top of that all the other people that

recreate on public land. So that those are the pictures that I chose and that's why I chose them. Yeah, good point. Yeah. Yep, it's not worth it. Nope, nope. What's the chat have to say about all that? Phil, a lot of people yelling about protecting public land, calling your Senator, a bunch of, a bunch of, a handful of Canadians who are, who are worried for us. Is Brett Reeves still Brett Reeves still lurking in there? Not working. He hasn't said anything for

a while. So I think he's probably I don't know me back at the grind with a knife for recording a podcast But uh, let's see here. We've got a gotta get your questions in this has been questioned light a question light episode But yeah, you have any questions for the crew. Let me know but Colton asks Seth What's the plan for y'all's time in Tanzania? Where I know Steve's Buffalo hunting. Um, so spend a big chunk of time doing that. And then I think he wants to kill a warthog too. Other than that, I don't know.

I think we're just going to be. Hiking around the bush a bunch. And you guys are there for a long time, right? Yeah. We're there three weeks. Yeah. It's quite a chunk of time. Um, so yeah, I don't know. I don't think if he gets those things early, we're gonna go after other things

I got a question for you. What's that? If one of those water buffalo charges Steve and you're right over his shoulder with that camera. What are you gonna do? Oh I'm gonna drop the camera Oh, I'm going to drop the camera. That's what I was wondering. That's what I was getting at. I will also say too that we are going to have a handful of bonus podcast episodes coming out around the African trip. Not Water Buffalo, Cape Buffalo. Cape Buffalo, yeah.

So they're going to be kind of sort of diaries from the field with Steve and various members of the crew that are going to be on the trip, Seth included. Dirt Myth as well, so look forward to those ones. And then we're going to have a big old normal podcast episode at the end of the trip. And then I'm sure you guys can look forward to some video content down the road, but that stuff takes a few months to put together. But yeah, this is all for season 13 of Meteor. So. So yeah, I'm gonna stick close to whoever has that double barrel rifle. Yeah, that's a smart plan. Yeah. Noah asks, Brody, what was your favorite thing

to do outdoors-wise in PA? Well, I mean, I can never answer these questions. Like hunting and fishing. I did more fishing just because I was younger when I was there, but I did a lot of hunting too This guy's asked this question before and I don't remember if you guys were in the room When he asked him, but he wants to he wants an answer from everyone on the crew and I'll give him that opportunity But he says

What animal do you shamelessly wish was a game animal boat? But is not and will never be mmm whales What animal do you shamelessly wish was a game animal? But but is it not and will never be. Hmm. Whales. That's a good answer. Well, they're game animals for some people, I guess. That is not something I've ever even like considered. Yeah, it's a tough one. Is can tourists? That's pretty shamelessly saying that. but it's tourist season here in Montana but I can't seem to find a tag yeah yeah what else would be good

try to think wild horses yeah yeah that'd be good got some here in Montana to the dad this is from Alaska Highboy. Any books for kids? And I mean, I think it goes without saying some of the ones that Brody wrote that I'm sure he'll mention. But he says- Yeah, those are pretty good. Those are solid.

He says he's got an almost one-year-old and he's tired of all the cutesy, far from accurate wildlife books. That's a tough one for me, man. Like, it's so little. Like, I don't even, like like we just read our one year old all sorts of stuff. I don't know that there's like outdoor specific books that we were reading to our kids at that age. Yeah, same. I know there's some out there, but we didn't read it. Um,

now he's too old for those little kids books. Yeah. little kids books. Yeah. Question for Corey. It's from Figurnit Outdoors. Solid name there. This guy, he got too excited and didn't even finish his question. But he says, Spring Bear Scope Magnification, SFP or FFP and best all around cartridge and, and then he stops. But I think you can answer some of those if you would like to. Oh yeah I like the second focal plane. Four to fifteen is plenty if you're shooting anywhere over 300 yards you might want to zoom in a little bit more than 12 power but you certainly don't need it. Depending on where you're hunting too if you're shooting close quarters you might not even need a scope. And then best all around cartridge is the 300 Winchester Magnum. Period.

Gotcha. Right on. There you go. Corey spoken. Uh, let's see here. Just kind of, these are, these are coming in hot, hot and heavy. Trying to, trying to pick them out. Uh, Dan the Outdoor Man. Question for the crew.

Any unwanted interactions with the environmental police while hunting or fishing? Any complicated laws gotten you in trouble before? Nope. All my interactions with game wardens have been very pleasant because I haven't had any reason to be in trouble. Yeah, same as a fishing guide. We'd get pulled over all the time, making sure we, I was licensed and our, my anglers were, had their fishing licenses and we had enough life jackets

in the boat, but it was always a pleasant. Yeah. Yeah. I never had any bad, there's one time we had a weird interaction with a park ranger in a spot where we were hunting close to a park and he seemed like the guy just didn't like hunters. Right. I was with the other one. But that wasn't like, that wasn't a game war. No, it wasn't a game war

It was just a yeah weird interaction with yeah authority We'll do one more Africa question then we can we can move it along Max says question for Seth Will you get any opportunities to hunt in Tanzania? I don't think so. Yeah It's usually the Steve show down there, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Shoot with your camera. Yeah, it's too expensive, I think.

Yeah. Get craters over there. Cool. All right, we'll check back in with those guys towards the end of the show. Our next segment is new. We're going to do kind of a regional summer fishing report Yeah, so we've got a handful. We got a couple remote check-ins from some some crew members

Let's take a look says pause for sound here. Do you got a song or not? No, I don't have a sound. I don't know Come on that was somebody went up right now Phil. That was casting a line and open yeah, something would bite alright um We'll come up with a song for that one man me going fishing in the dark there you go Didn't play this one. Oh We didn't I didn't give you time to play it earlier I can't believe it. Fishing report. There you go. There's a bite that I'm hooked.

Um, alright. We're live. So, we were to start out. I'm sorry Brody. I'm there. I can't even introduce these guys. But as it's been getting hotter, the rivers, they've been shrinking down obviously.

And the fish have been getting more concentrated. I've noticed that the smallies, they've started to run in big groups, going after bait balls, some minnows, any sort of streamer, those have been working well, crawdads. Also this time of year, if you're looking to catch a big trophy smallie, night fishing is super effective. On the trout side of things, the sulfur hatch is in full swing. I've been hearing from some of my guide buddies that they are going more after the dry flies and the emergers. And then this time of year you will find the long-eared sunfish are in full bloom. They are

as vibrant as ever, looking like something straight out of the Amazon rainforest. So get out there, go get them. Good luck to everyone this week who's going out there to fish. Stay safe and hey, keep it public. Yeah, buddy. God, he sounds like Clay. He's a way better angler than Clay. I'll tell you that. Well, that sounds pretty good. I'll let you tee this one up, Birdie. I apologize. We're bringing in, thank you, because I'll let you tee this one up, Bertie. I apologize. We're bringing in... Thank you, because I came up with a good one. Okay.

We're bringing in Chester, the walleye molester from Wisconsin, to let us know what's going on out there. Hello, everybody. Chester Floyd coming at you from Northern Wisconsin. Here's your Northern Wisconsin muskie fishing report. With the weather being so inconsistent in northern Wisconsin The fish have kind of been inconsistent too, but big fish are being caught Once you find them one day they could be gone and move the next day So the key is to move around a bunch till you find those fish

I'm gonna focus on main lake points kind of main lake humps if I can find weeds on those all the better. Some baits that have been working have been topwater baits, jerk baits like a squirrely tail hellhound here. Soon enough the rubber bite and the bucktail bite should should pick up with the weather you know leveling out and being more consistent. I haven't been out a lot recently, so I got this information from my buddy, Gus Manty, with SuggsFishing.com. He's a guide up here, but I hope you guys can get out on the water. And hopefully this information helps you catch a big old muskie. See ya.

Very professional report from Chester. Yeah, thanks boys. Wow. He's in his new fancy lawn. I'm jealous of that boat. Seth, I know you don't got a report because you're all mad that you haven't been fishing. Well, I have been fishing. It's not worth a report. So gotcha. So it's been tough. It's been tough for me. Oh yeah. Corey? Man, I've been fly angling on some of our local waters around here and it's been amazing. Really good. Runoffs over with a little early this year. Water temps are just right for now.

Ooh. Getting it, river temps just right. I wish it was end of July and not the end of June with these water temps. We've already got some. Like right now is the time. Cause in three weeks, there might not be a lot of angling to be done. We've already got some Houdaou restrictions going on.

But it's good shutting stuff down. It's really good right now. I've been out a little bit planning on heading out this weekend to one of our favorite lakes for perch and walleye here. It's picking up. So I'll have a report for you later after that. Yeah we'll have to do this again. I would I do kind of have a report. All right let's hear it. I guess you call it that. I've been keeping track of what's going on with the local Montana walleye circuit. Oh yeah. And holy crap some big numbers this year. I saw the numbers from Tiber. Holy cow. Yeah big numbers

140 pound bag 143 pounds for the the winning bag. So that's 10 fish. Yeah fish. Whoa That's saying do the math in your head there. Yeah Yeah, sounds like the walleye fishing other than where I've been fishing has been good. Yep. Yep. All right. We're going to stick with the fishing theme for this next section. We're not doing one minute fishing because it never seems to work out. I'm really over it. We're going to do something different. This is is gonna be really exciting for everyone.

First of its kind live fishing contest between Seth and Cory. We've got our own trout pond right out here behind meat eater HQ. Seth's gonna be out there with his spin pole and Cory is gonna take his fly rod, but I am picking I'm picking their lure slash fly for them. I'm nervous about that. Me too. You shouldn't be I didn't get I thought about being mean

But I'm not gonna be mean. Okay, so I actually I'm gonna give you a choice Cory if you can't catch fish with one of these two things like I'm gonna be really embarrassed Oh, Cory's happy already olive or black really bugger. Yeah. Yeah, and then Seth a little panther Martin Yeah, or a little cast master both of which are oh now pretty good choice I like that. I mean we did a little pre fish yesterday and I'm a little worried. I need the heavier one That's what you get. I know I get it. I was ready for whatever They're pretty aggressive out there mostly brook trout that we can find I know there's well somebody caught a cutthroat in there at one point right I caught a sucker in there one time, okay?

You don't know okay, so so choose your weapon, man. Yeah, okay. I'm going with the Panther Mart. I'm going with the Olive Woolly Bugger. Alright, um, run out there and catch some fish. Here we go. Timer goes. Is this like, first fish?

I guess I just gotta sit here while they're out fishing. Hello audio listeners. Phil butting in to let you know that I'm cutting this entire segment out of the podcast version that you are currently listening to because frankly it wasn't very exciting for audio only listeners. We didn't get a lot of banter from Seth and Corey out there at the pond. So let's just cut right back to the moment where they come back in the studio and Seth wins the competition with one fish.

Always welcome back. How'd that look, Phil? Terrible. So you're going to have to tell us about it. Oh, yeah. Give it to us a rundown. When I was releasing that fish, I don't know if you could hear it, but there's a lady behind me saying, release it nicely, gently, gently.

We did not hear that. Yeah, we had some spectators, there were some lawn mowers. What was your challenge out there? Your biggest challenge, Corey? Mine was just the weeds that I had to deal with managing my line. You should have waded right in there. I thought about it. Not really. Yesterday we went and tested the water just to make sure there was actually fish

Yeah, I saw it like you're doing a little pre fish and beating them up out there You could have caught those fish today that could have been what happened. I caught four yesterday There you go pretty quick or was your all of the selection fly Maybe I should have went with the black one, but either way nice work Seth. I uh thanks I wasn't catching anything until I sent one all the way up into where that that creek comes in Yeah, yeah, and then I could see him. He missed it a few times. I could see it flashing. Oh, yeah. Yeah What a rush bit of an upset I'd say Seth nice work Oh, I was kind of nervous because yesterday Cory was crushing them on the on the fly

I can't be sure but my guess is is there's probably like 10 or 12 fish in that entire thing. That's a good guess. That might be overkill actually, yeah. Half a dozen. I keep saying I'm gonna, during the winter, I'm gonna drill a hole and put the live scope down in there and just see what's going on, but it's just hard to motivate me to do that

for a couple of brookies for sure. Yeah, that was cool. All right. Well, good job, boys. Oh, thanks. We're going to move on to our trail cam photo contest. Oh, man. Here we go.

It's going to be big. It's brought to us by our friends at Moultrie. And for the first round, we asked you guys to send us your funniest photos. We got hundreds of submissions. So choosing the top five was difficult. Um, we saw shots, uh, multiple folks taking a dump in the woods. Um, that's, that's like not, I don't know. I don't find that funny.

Um, deer, raccoon, squirrel, bear fornication. That's funny. Um, to raccoon squirrel, bear fornication. That's funny. Um, topless female hiker, not funny. Um, but you know, whatever. Um, anyway, Corey, you looked through all these, didn't you? I looked through all of them last night with a tall glass of whiskey. So thanks to everybody for putting all these in. I'd say there were like 350 submissions.

Are you damaged from it or you doing all right? I mean Made you laugh out loud. Yeah, there were like are we gonna see them? Yeah, the couple that made me laugh out loud it made it in here There was a lot that should have made it in here, but it was tough to select five Yeah, again, thanks to everybody for submitting. We're going to do this again next month, maybe with a different theme. So stay tuned. But let, like, I'll tell people what let's like announce what they're getting after we look at the picture.

Build up the excitement. All right. Are we ready to see photo number one here? Photo number one. Now the chat, if you guys can give us your thoughts on the, your funniest picture, please. Yeah, you guys are going to decide the winner. We're not deciding the winner. So like Phil's going to do some quick math as you guys vote for them. I'm going to try to start a poll. I think I can add five, five options on the poll that I might be limited to this one. You can say these

people's names, right? Yeah. Branson McAtee is calling this the ninja squirrel i mean look at that capture i wonder what is he trying to land on the dergys back or what i wonder what's going on it looks like he's going full american ninja warrior on this turkey that's hilarious too concerned about i wish that was a video that we'd i know that would be amazing i'd'd be happy after but I cracked up to this one. I mean What a great shot. Yeah, what a capture just squirrel, you know squirrel just do weird stuff when you're yep They're funny when you're sitting in a tree standing back East you just watch squirrels do weird stuff. It's cool Okay, ninja squirrel. All right number two. This is from

level 19. Late night taco bell. It's really hard to tell what's going on here. Come on, is this real? I was worried we had some AI generated photos, but it's, so it's hard to say what's happening here. I bet that's just, it's like a bug that's flying by close to the camera.

It just happened to be a right spot, right time. Maybe, the shutter. I'd like to think that's what it is, Seth. I'm gonna not be a Debbie Downer and say this was fake. This one had the second most likes on the website. It looks like, is that a Paul Meadow right there? Yeah, it's somewhere south. Yep.

Good call. All Alright, number three. Number three we've got coming from Michael Homentree, Kid Menace. Is he just flipping off the camera? I think he's doing the shocker. Oh gosh. I can't tell. I feel like this kid is just driving by a camera, he knows he's there, that his dad has out, and he's just like, ehh. Oh, he's just like Trespassing so yeah, we had a lot of you know wild game images But some really great like home security photos that were hilarious and this one just seemed like it was obviously set up Maybe for turkeys or deer and this kid who's well, it's like in a neighborhood. There's like houses and stuff back there

Yeah I remember the guy Mentioning that this kid is supposed to be on the street and he keeps kind of like taking a shortcut. And then he found that camera. He's just brutalized that guy. Now I couldn't help. Maybe it's more funny now. All right.

Here's number four. Brian Calb, Yoda. This is the one that I do not think is a trail cam. Okay. So Brian said, and Brody, you've met Brian before he mentioned this. Yep. I'll forward you the email, but he was doing a Purdue university project where they were learning how to scientifically survey wildlife populations using trail cameras. And this trail camera

was a 35 millimeter film camera that they were using. But a buddy of his- Set up as an, yeah, like, I gotcha. Yeah. But a buddy of his played a joke and put on the Yoda mask and, uh, obviously captured something other than what they were going for here. But I, that's creepy. I thought it was funny. It was that, that one was for you. Oh, I, I appreciate it. Thanks for the shout out. I like to feel included, you know, someone was having fun with that one. All right. Number five, like how can this not be funny? Yeah. Like a bear shitting in the woods is just funny. If you zoom in close to you can really, I think

you can see it. I wish I had a zoomed in one. I don't want to influence people's vote, but this one gets my vote. I like it not because he's shitting, but his facial expression looking into the camera. He's like, oh, I get caught. He looks quite embarrassed. Yeah, exactly. And he's up on, I feel like he's working pretty hard because he's up on hind legs, man. He's really getting after it. I was impressed by that too.

Okay, so here are the limitations of the poll. I can only give four options. So I think as a room, we eliminate our least favorite. Yoda. Yeah. Yoda? Yeah. I'm sorry, Brian. I understand we met, but that picture is, I don't like it. All right.

So I am, we are eliminating Yoda. I'm going to start the poll here in a few seconds. So one, two, three, or five. One, two, three, or five. Poll is going live right now. Please vote in the live chat. And we will- Do we wanna mess around with,

can we do a little feedback while- Of course, yes, please do. While people are voting, that'll give us something to do. Let's see, we got a question from Mogor. Hey! Hey, Mogor. Hey, Mogor. Hey, Mogor. It says, Hi Seth, what camera are you currently using?

Do you bring a lot of photography gear when you travel or just one reliable setup? Thank you. A7R5 for the main camera backup is an A7R4. I got a 70 to 200 lens, a 24 to 70 and a 16 to 35. Yeah, that's my setup. Bunch of batteries, some filters. Yeah, that's about it. Not super complicated, but... Sounds complicated to me.

Well, you're a professional. Yeah. Spencer, not our Spencer in the chat has an idea. He says we should do an outdoor obstacle course, catch a fish, catch a loose chicken in a fishing net, then pluck a duck. First we got to catch a fish. So like the other stuff, it'd be great to do the other stuff. First we never get there.

Yeah. This was an idea last winter. Actually, we were going to include ice skating, drilling holes in the ice, and then first one to drop their line in the ice. But it would have been too much, we would have needed more than a couple minutes. Question from Matt. He says, how do you like to answer non-hunters who ask you, did you catch a big one, when you get home from hunting season? I don't, I just tell them. I tell them, like, I'm not going to like try and make them feel stupid, you know? Yeah. I would just say we kill them, not catch them. Unless you're like lying running or something. Yeah. Captain Texas says, Seth, what is the most challenging part about

filming other people hunting? I would say just trying not to be the guy that ever spooks the animal, you know? Yep. Which over time you learn, you just, I typically I don't move unless Steve moves. So there's never like a, you know, he can't turn around be like, you spooked it. I'd be like, well I was doing the same thing you were doing. So do you notice a difference between, cause like Steve's very aware, you know, I used to work on the camera crew way back and like Steve's very aware of the camera guys and how the whole thing works. And like, there's gotta be like, you've got to have expectations for the hunters too, right? Do you notice like a way big difference between like filming Steve and filming

a guest hunter has never been filmed before? Like as far as challenges they present to you? I mean, yes and no. Filming someone that's never been filmed before, like they, they just think, I feel like most people just think it's like impossible to kill something with that many people. And you'll get guys, they're like, you know, don't move. Don't.

And it's like, and you already know, it's like, we, yeah, we know what we're doing. Um, so that's kind of like one thing with, with new people. Um, and Steve's like, it depends on the with new people But in Steve's like It depends on the animal too but he's like I think he we always use guys that have been with us forever and know the game and you know how to be quiet and So he's he typically doesn't like yell at us or anything. Not any more. Sometimes he does, but it all depends. Mark says, guys, I want to send a mule deer hide off to get processed hair on.

It's currently wrapped and in the freezer. How long is that going to be good for before I need to ship it off? As long as it's frozen. Yeah, for a long time. Forever. Cool. Uh, we'll do one more and then we'll see how the poll, uh, is going. Max, not our Max says, how'd y'all get started with MeatEater?

Was there an application, an interview process or we all picked because of your individual skills? I think we each have like a different path to how we got here. Yeah. All starts and some the oldest. I used to guide with Yannis in Colorado. Yannis moved to Alaska through a mutual friend, got hooked up with Steve, and became a production assistant. A few years later, they needed help on the Stars in the Sky shoot. Yannis approached me.

That's how I got my start. And one thing led to another. And I started writing with Steve. That was 10 years ago. Hmm. Yeah. Mine was semi-similar, a good friend of mine. And also are one of our colleagues presented the job offer to me. It was during COVID when I was guiding fishermen and hunters when I wasn't quite

sure if that industry was going to last a whole lot longer, just we weren't letting out of state or is in the state. So things were really weird. So I tried to get a different job, I guess, more steady job. And yeah, that was five years ago now. Nice.

Yeah. Mine was, uh, Meteor was just looking for production assistant to help out on shoots and haul gear and make sandwiches. How'd you find out about it? A mutual friend. Yeah. Um, recommended a mutual friend that knew Yannis and Steve and whatnot

recommended, uh, me to them. And, um, yeah, just kind of got on a phone call with Yannis and rest was history. That was 2018. Washington Elkhunt was the, uh, my first shoot ever. Phil. Oh, I got burnt out working in TV and, uh, applied via indeed.com. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I had audio experience and I was worried they wouldn't want me because I didn't hunt

and Janis, my first interview was with Janis, he said that does not matter. I said thank God and that was six years ago now. So yeah. There we go. All right, let's see who had the best trail cam photo. In last place with 6% of the vote, we number three biker kid. Oh well yeah. Look at him. He probably needs slapped. Is that an e-bike? Oh it might be. It looks like a little motorcycle. Yeah, possibly. Oh he bike cheater. All right, and then in third place with 12 percent of the vote we have deer fart oh See I've good high hopes for that. I love your fart. I agree with that

Hard to say what's going on in that photo, but yeah, nobody else cared And we only have two left now It's between ninja squirrel and bear shitting and I will announce the first place winner the first place winner with 68 percent of the vote. It was a landslide. We've got bear shit There we go. Congratulations. It was great. Yeah All right. So who was that? At a pain pain pain. Yeah, um, we'll who was that? That was at a pain pain. Yeah We'll reach out to you for this so massive collection. Yeah gear the winner at a pain you're gonna receive a

What is it? Two or to to to to Of these looks like it's part of the okay it's like written weird two of the poultry edge two cameras so two of those suckers two ten watt solar pack or is that ten watt ten watt solar power power packs an MKC knife the saw to slicer you want to show them what that one is well it's pretty packaged up here oh then don't worry about all geez man this just this list just gets is a long one this list just keeps going $250 meat-eater store

gift card Wow and a $250 first light gift card whoa that's $500 big pride knows either. I would have submitted a photo. Does a bear shit in the woods for all that stuff. Yeah, stay tuned again. We're gonna try this again next month and maybe the month after. Sounds like it. I think we should. It's kind of fun. As long as Moultrie is gonna kick down and we keep getting cool prizes. All right, hope you enjoyed it. That's the end of today's show. Join us next week, everyone, and have a great weekend. Take it easy. Later.

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