The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 730: Dispatches from Africa - So You Wanna Be A Professional Hunter?

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

Steven Rinella talks with Apprentice Professional Hunter George Dodds. Topics Discussed: Ginormous termite mounds; growing up on a ranch in Kenya; how elephants hate bees; the resident lions and leopards; Kenya's 1977 ban on hunting; 250-pound Nile Perch; the misery that tsetse flies unleash; the fashion combo of shorts and cute gaiters; what it takes to become a Professional Hunter in Tanzania; harvesting honey on the Luganzo Tongwe Game Reserve; eating Steve's Cape Buffalo; and more. Connect with Steve and The MeatEater Podcast Network Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YoutubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Ever wonder what happened to the hundreds of thousands of buffalo that used to call the eastern United States home or what caused the rise and fall of Bobwhite quail? Backwoods University, hosted by me, Lake Pickle, is the latest addition to the Bear Gryse feed on Meat Eaters podcast network. Together, we'll seek out a deeper understanding of wildlife, wild places and the people who dedicate their lives to conserving both. podcast. and Backwoods University now. Welcome to Africa Dispatch Flop 3. And first, before we even introduce who we're talking to right now, we got to address the

elephant in the room, which is this. Tell my mom. Yeah. we got to address the elephant in the room, which is this. Turmite mound. Yeah, this is for you people watching and not listening, this is one of the most, this is like a major feature of the landscape, is this is a termite hill. They're everywhere. Yeah, and they got a little bit of an iceberg

kind of thing going on. What you see above ground is much less than what's underground. So that's maybe a third of what's actually going on. Yeah, and this thing is, it's a mound. It looks like a mound of dirt, probably nine, maybe nine feet high, eight or nine feet high, riddled with holes, but they're all over out here. And there's even a fancy term for this because we're in a big, we're near a big lakeshore. And so we're in a big like big open grass flat. It's kind of reminiscent of It'd be reminiscent of like oak savanna in the US or

in in Florida you get that grassland with the much I think of Seth the Yeah, the the grassland with the oak hammocks but these hammocks are often based around these giant termite mounds which have a name it's uh Morgan? Say again? The the little territory made by the termite mound. Termitalia. Termitalia. Yeah it's the termite mound and then the all these trees have what's called termitalia. Termitalia. Yeah, it's in the termite mound and then all these trees have what's called termitalia association. So they like the... Got a bit of a symbiotic relationship. ...change in the soil that's created by the kind of moisture and humidity that's going on inside that termite mound. Yeah, so if you were here scanning around it's all grass.

If it's standing up, it's like six foot grass with all these little clusters of trees here and there and they're built around these giant termite mounds. With that said, George, is it Dodds? Dodds, yeah. George Dodds, who we're gonna talk to him today because he is doing his second year apprenticeship to become a professional hunter. Correct. And you are what's known as, you have to explain as the people, you're a White apprenticeship to become a professional hunter. Correct.

And you are what's known as, you have to explain this to people. You're a white Kenyan. I'm a white Kenyan. Explain that to everybody. Yeah, fifth generation Kenyan. My great grandfather came to Kenya in the early 1900s. And yeah, we've born and bred every generation since. Yeah, out of a small farming area in Kenya called Lakeypia,

yeah, which is sort of slightly north of central Kenya. And you guys farm and ranch there? Yeah, yeah, correct terminology would be a ranch. Yeah, so an indigenous cattle breed called the Baran cattle. And it's just a bit of a ranch and a small bit of crop farming. But yeah, full of game. Yeah, much like what we've got going on here, just wilderness really. Tell people why elephants hate drones.

Sound like bees. Elephants hate bees. I didn't know elephants hated bees. Yeah, a lot of small scale farmers actually put beehives up around their crops because the elephants just hate that noise and it really helps them keep them away from their crops. Yeah, it's incredible. So when you guys, what is the number one thing that do crop damage in Kenya? The number one farm and ranch hassles?

Elephant would probably have the biggest impact just because of sheer size. So they get into a small piece of land, they do a huge amount of damage. They can, a group of elephant can clean out acres in a matter of hours of a maize crop. So yeah, they probably do the biggest damage. And then we've got the bird species, the quilia, which also do a massive amount of damage. But sort of large mammals would definitely be elephant, and they're also so clever, they know how to break electric fences. Yeah, they can think about how to get into it.

And what kind of stuff kills your cattle? Lions, mostly. Lions and leopard. Leopard will take out our calves, but lion take out our big fully grown animals. Doesn't happen. So on your ranch at any given time, there could be African lions, elephants, and leopards.

Could be like in among your livestock or on you. Yeah, we've usually got about four resident lions on the farm, on the ranch, and anywhere up to 60 elephant at one time. They move a lot depending on season and water availability, as well as the cropping season for small-scale farmers around us. So they'll move into an area when the crops are nearly ripening and they'll come in and eat it. Yeah and then a lot of leopard, it's quite thick bush where we are and then you know we've got buffalo, eland and all the all the antelope species as well. You know a peculiarity of Kenya or maybe it's not so peculiar in terms of all African countries but a thing that always has

surprised me as I've tried learning a little bit about Africa and reading books about Africa is that Kenya, years ago in the 70s I believe, banned hunting. Yeah. I mean just like banned hunting across the board. What was that conversation like? Why did that occur? I can't speak much to why you know I wasn't around then but yeah, they banned all all Large game hunting they kept bird hunting for a long time. I think that was banned in the sort of mid-2000s But yeah, they they banned all all sort of planes game dangerous game hunting in I think 76 77 And yeah, no chance of it opening anytime soon again was it like when it happened was it was it a Regarded as a conservation move or just a cultural move. I think a conservation move

Okay, I think there was a lot of pressure to to sort of move with the times I think that was sort of the driving force mm-hmm and yeah, so definitely a big conservation move really yeah So you know you grew so growing up in Kenya? definitely a big conservation move really. So even though you grew, so growing up in Kenya, you've come to, like, you would go elsewhere in Africa and do big game hunting. Yeah, yeah. Like I imagine, would it feel,

you're probably not that familiar with the States, but I mean, is it fairly easy and fluid to bounce around and hunt? It is, it is, it's, it's definitely, we can access areas. I mean, Southern Africa is probably the most popular and most accessible, but definitely Tanzania, Uganda, Central Africa, Cameroon, you can get to these places. But prior to the band, you guys were a hunting family.

Yeah, yeah. My great grandparents and great great grandparents were all hunters. And yeah, I've been doing it for a long time. And still shooting. We do a lot of sport shooting. A lot of sport shooting is big in Kenya. And that's, yeah, so it's... There's no hunting, but there's still a lot of sport shooting. And that's, yeah, so it's, there's no hunting, but there's still a lot of sport shooting. And you fish there a lot? Lot of fishing, great fishing. Some really interesting species as well.

Like describe the fishing to me, like what kind of fishing does a person do in Kenya? Sort of recreational fishing, probably some of the most popular would be Nile perch. Okay. Which is a really big, I mean, they used to get up to sort of 200 250 pounds freshwater fish Oh, I thought a Nile perch was a tilapia. No, no, so now perch eat tilapia. Okay

That's that's a really good bait that we use live baits Nile perch. That's not the same thing. No totally different much bigger Yeah, I mean when we're fishing for big big Nile perch will use Up to a two pound size tilapia to catch a Nile perch. Oh okay. Yeah they're big and they're a bit like bass in the way they they sort of ambush and love structure so it's really fun fishing. Yeah and you, you, we do, we keep the little ones I mean they're they're they're getting a bit rare now. The numbers, there's a lot of pressure on them, fishing pressure. So we release a lot of the big ones.

But they're very good eating. And where we catch them is a place of absolute beauty. Most guys fish in a place called Lake Takana, which is, I think, one of, if not the longest longest desert lake in the world, which is northern Kenya and it's what we would call a safari, not a hunting safari, but a safari just getting there, take you two or three days all off-road driving, no access to sort of shops or anything like that. So yeah, it's a bit of an adventure just getting there, which makes it really special. Yeah. Ever wonder what happened to the hundreds of thousands

of buffalo that used to call the Eastern United States home or what caused the rise and fall of Bobwhite quail? Backwoods University, hosted by me, Lake Pickle, is the latest addition to the Bear Gryse feed on Meat Eaters podcast network. Together, we'll seek out a deeper understanding of wildlife, wild places, and the people who dedicate their lives to conserving both.

After all, you can't love what you don't understand. Search Bear Grease on Apple, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast, and hit that follow button to enroll in Backwoods University now. and hit that follow button to enroll in Backwoods University now. Yeah, I want to refer real quick to the very familiar uniform that people might see with people from Africa that hunt. You guys run the shorts. You know you're getting mauled all day by tetsy flies. Yeah, I hate hunting and all sort of cruising around in in trousers. I

just get too hot. I run hot. Oh, yeah. But then the flip side is you get mauled by flies. I kind of look at it that you know, you kind of just let them eat you for two weeks and then your body gets used to it. Yeah, cuz I'm kind of like, a few of us, a few of us Americans are having some like, some body feelings. Yeah, no, we all get those. Yeah, first week is always tough. Yeah, like a tingly poison ivy kind of feel from too many Tetsy flybugs.

Definitely, some welts, yeah. So that fades away. Yeah, yeah, after one or two weeks, it goes. Yeah, and you run those cute little gators Yeah, run the gators keep the birds and everything out of the socks Yeah, that's keeping your socks clean. Yeah, keep the socks clean. Nothing worse than itchy socks Yeah, then just some good quiet leather boots. Yeah You want it like I understand you got your ranch Responsibilities, but you're doing an apprenticeship to become a professional hunter

Indeed yeah to work to hunt in Tanzania and be hunting what would professional hunter be like what we recall of you know Hunting guide in Tanzania. Yeah Does that mean you're gonna walk away from ranching? No, I'll do it part-time. Okay You know hunting is very seasonal and it also depends on how many trips you can do. So I'll definitely sort of stay on the farm, run the farm and then when I get a trip I'll come down and do the work. What draws you to doing the professional hunting? I grew up a bush kid on the farm, you know just being outdoors.

Both my parents were photographic guides as well. My mum was a botanist. She described some species of plants. Yeah, described a few. She specialized in aloes, aloe vera, African species. So she described a couple of aloes. So my childhood was spent traveling across Kenya and into Ethiopia, searching for different species of plants, which took us to some incredible places,

far out places that most people don't go to off the beaten track, and just fell in love with being in the bush. And just, yeah, it just gelled with me. And this is as close as I can get to that. Is the process formal, meaning you have to do two years of apprenticeship, is that because of who you want, because you want to work for Robin Hood Safaris, or is that a government

thing? It's a government thing. I think that's a standard for all wannabe professional hunters. You've got to do an apprenticeship with one of the recognized hunting outfitters or hunting companies like Robin Hood's furries and then once you finish that then you've got a theoretical exam which is pretty heavy and you've got to get all the law and everything it's quite it's quite extensive yeah so you finish your two years of apprenticeship I think obviously you know you have to be recommended to actually sit the exam so

if you if you've done your apprenticeship and the outfitter thinks, oh, he's not up to the task, you just won't be recommended to sit the exam and then you can't sit the exam without a recommendation. Got it. Yeah. Morgan mentioned to me, like I was kind of marveling how he was born in Australia, came here and learned the Swahili language, Ki Swahili, as Eli says. And he said, you can kid yourself in thinking and do it without, but you got to have some language skills.

Yeah, absolutely. But in Kenya, the national language is English. It's also Ki Swahili. Oh, okay. All right. Our Ki Swahili is very different to Tanzanian Kiswahili. So the first couple of months for me, every time I get back down here, it's quite a challenge. I would describe Tanzanian Kiswahili

as sort of a very, very correct, very polite language. Whereas, Sorry, which one is? Tanzanian. Whereas our Kenyan Kiswahili is quite colloquial. A lot of other languages thrown in there. So I can converse with anyone back home in Kenya and they'll understand me, but I need to think a bit and sort of use the correct words and not sort of use all these colloquialisms that we use in Kenya.

Got it. Yeah. So it's tricky. And yeah, I think if you don't speak Swahili, yeah, I mean, most of our guys don't speak English so language barrier is a big thing. So did you grow up bilingual? Yeah. Yeah, I actually spoke Swahili before I spoke English.

My mom and dad said, well, he's obviously going to speak English. I went to an English boarding school. So they said, okay, everyone don't speak to these kids in English. And they spoke to us in Swahili until we were fluent in Swahili. And then once we were fluent, then they spoke to us in English. Got it. Yeah, which has been a godsend. So you'll finish apprenticing this year?

Yeah. And then next season, and we should clarify, season is, what do you guys think of as a season, a hunting season? So typically in Western Tanzania where we are now, it'll be from July up to October. So yeah, so hopefully by next July, I'll be fully qualified for Go as well. And you might come here and hunt?

That would be, that's the goal. Yeah, this is the standard for me. This Luganzo Tongue Game Reserve is, yeah, it's unbelievable. It's pure, pristine wilderness, as you've seen. Yeah. That's the thing, prior to coming here, I went out to Masai land. Yeah. And that was so cool on its own, right?

Where you're, you know, you're out in that like very desert like open grassland. And you know, every couple hours or whatever you see, you're seeing, I mean, one, you can never look around and not find out in the open, you can never look around and not find animals. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, just the concentration is... There's always something there, but every couple hours or whatever, there's like a group of Maasai kids with that coming through with some goats. So, yeah, their parents, you know, they make water runs with donkeys

loaded with jugs of water. So you'll see a string of women with a dozen donkeys loaded with water going across. And it's like a working landscape. And mixed within this is all this wildlife. And it's stunning. It's amazing. But here you are in one of the pure,

pure more vast chunks of wilderness I've ever been in. Yeah, absolutely. I think we've got different sort of classes of land use in these wildlife areas in Tanzania, and this area is a game reserve, so there's no permanent settlement, there's no semi-permanent settlement. The only access guys will have is permitted honey harvesting, which is you've seen all those bee hives. Yeah, and I'm fascinated by it.

Yeah, it's incredible. So we get guys coming in about twice a year to come and check on their hives, harvest their honey. But other than that, it's pristine wilderness. Yeah, there's no one here. There's nothing here. And then when you start, you'll engage with clients. Now, do you imagine that you'd

Probably have clients from off the continent, right? Yeah, absolutely. I think the majority is Is is American clients or European clients? And so yeah, that's the that's the next trick is to get your name out there and and start getting some trips Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'll I'll hopefully get some trips for the company if I make the cut. Yeah, so it's a long slow process, but I think that's what it's all about. That's, you know, at the end of the day when you do come out here,

you're hunting with someone who knows what they're doing. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I don't wanna interfere in it, but good luck on getting the okay. Thank you. I feel like you might be gonna, I feel like you're maybe gonna get the okay I haven't I feel like somehow if you weren't we wouldn't be talking to you. I just feel like be awkward Fresh as on I feel like you might get the okay, but I do some study Last note when we ended the last the last flop edition

Last note, when we ended the last flop edition, we were heading out back on the trail of some buffalo, and that night we got one. I'm not going to give you any more detail than that, but we got one. We've been eating them. Yep, and he's a beauty of this investment. We ate them three times yesterday and two times today. Yep, indeed, yeah.

Yep, that's what we're doing. All right. Yeah, indeed. Yeah. That's what we're doing. All right. Thanks, man. Cool. Ever wonder what happened to the hundreds of thousands of buffalo that used to call the eastern United States home? Or what caused the rise and fall of Bobwhite quail? Backwoods University, hosted by me, Lake Pickle, is the latest addition to the Bear Grease Feed on Meat Eaters podcast network.

Together, we'll seek out a deeper understanding of wildlife, wild places, and the people who dedicate their lives to conserving both. After all, you can't love what you don't understand. Search Bear Grease on Apple, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast and hit that follow button to enroll in Backwoods University now.