The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 731: Lost Lures and Pheasant Couches | MeatEater Radio Live!

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

Hosts Spencer Neuharth, Ryan Callaghan, and Mark Kenyon discuss Cal and Mark's recent trip to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in addition to some recent outdoor legislation, play a round of 1-Minute Fishing with Bradley Pooler (@FindAndFish), wish they could spin that giant wheel in a game of MeatEater Price Is Right, and find out what article of clothing Cal will share with the class in MeatEater Show-and-Tell. Watch the live stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel. Subscribe to The MeatEater Podcast Network MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Ever wonder what happened to the hundreds of thousands of buffalo that used to call the eastern United States home or what caused the rise and fall of Bobwhite quail? Backwoods University, hosted by me, Lake Pickle, is the latest addition to the Bear Gryse feed on Meat Eaters podcast network. Together, we'll seek out a deeper understanding of wildlife, wild places and the people who dedicate their lives to conserving both. After all, you can't love

what you don't understand. Search Bear Gryse on Apple, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast, and hit that follow button to enroll in Backwoods University now. Welcome to Mead Eater Radio Live. It's 11 a.m. Mountain Time. That's noon o'clock for our friends in Grand Marais, Minnesota on Thursday, July 10th. And we're live from Mead Eater HQ in Bozeman. I'm your host, Spencer, joined today by Cal and Mark. On today's show, Cal and Mark will fill us in on the latest outdoor legislation.

Then we'll be joined by Bradley Pooler for One Minute Fishing in Tennessee. After that, we'll play the prices right and finally we'll end the episode with some show and tell. Cal and Mark, back so fresh from a trip that I can still smell the Alaska on you. What are the two boys doing there? It's a good smell.

We're in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Okay. Tell me more. Brooks Ranch. We kind of started on the waters that would be draining to the south of the Brooks Ranch. And this was super cool because it was like the start of

the convergence of caribou, the porcupine herd caribou and then we are this is a very spoiled kid trip. We got a lot we got picked up and dropped off three different times. And when we got there there was there was no deliverable we just had to go experience it. Okay okay Yeah But we got picked up and flew on the same route that these caribou were Migrating on and it was awesome because you like in the first Valley the first Creek that we camped on these caribou would dump off the top of this super high ridge Skylined so you'd be like oh there. They are and then five minutes later They'd be down the river valley. And then they'd, they would turn north and they were just motoring.

Like they weren't grazing along for the most part. They were just following these ancient caribou paths. And then we got picked up, followed those paths in the air through the Brooks range and dropped off on the north-facing slopes and you could tell it was north-facing because it was just the Arctic Ocean to the north of us. And taking a step back for folks that aren't familiar the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is a 19.6 million acre wildlife refuge. The largest wildlife refuge I believe we have. One of the the very I think the second largest piece of public land in our system

And and quite possibly the most intact ecosystem second to what second to the? Western Arctic also known as the National Petroleum Reserve, Alaska Which is just to the west of it, and that's 23 million acres I think but this is I think arguably the most intact ecosystem we have left in the United States. It is... Which makes it probably one of the most intact ecosystems left in the world. In the world. Stunning, diverse area, like as he mentioned, where we started out on the south slope of the Brooks Range, which is the northern most extension of the Rocky Mountains.

Southern side of that is where we were, and the boreal forest kind of butts up into that and then you go up into the Brooks Range you go over to the other side and then becomes this tundra ecosystem and as Kel said you enter this coastal plain which stretches to the Arctic Ocean. So we had epic mountain vistas and river bottoms and then the second half of the trip we had this immense grassland like The whole time we were there especially that second half of the trip when you look over this millions of acres Grassland that is undeveloped untouched all the way to the Arctic Ocean

Knowing that in a few weeks there would be maybe two hundred thousand caribou out there It was a moment in which I thought to myself 200,000 caribou out there it was a moment in which I thought to myself This is a little bit like what Lewis and Clark experienced, you know 200 years ago or whatever it was I've always wondered that when you go across the grasslands today in North Dakota or eastern, Montana I always thought what was this like it would have been so amazing to see this Vast undeveloped grassland and all these creatures and we got to sit on a mountain and look over a grassland like that a tundra ecosystem like that now and and see for We thought we could probably see 60 to 100 miles in several directions with nothing easy

Yeah to add some perspective 30,000 square miles. That's the size of South Carolina that you guys are talking about Yeah, it is way cooler because there's very few people and there's a reason This is more relevant now than maybe in the past. What were you guys doing? Yeah? Well, we were there to to be able to experience it and and be able to bring back what we saw and Experience and share that with the world because this is a place that has been Hotly debated for a long time It was first created in 1960 as a about a 9 million acre refuge. In 1980 it was expanded to the current nearly 20 million acres and at that time because of all the political you know horse

trading that goes on there was a 1.5 million acre section of the reserve, the refuge, that was not protected as wilderness and instead designated for future study to either be designated as wilderness and instead designated for future study to either be designated as wilderness or to be opened up to development. That 1.5 million acres is this coastal plain area that me and Cale were just talking about. That is where these caribou go and calve. This is where migratory birds from all 50 states go. This is where the largest land-based polar bear denning sites, the most polar bear denning sites are in Alaska. It's here as well. That's

this place that ever since 1980 has been very hotly debated about opening up to oil and gas development. And a place any American could go hunt, fish, caribou hunt. Yeah, whole nine yards, all that stuff. Yeah, I mean the reason that it's so pristine, right, is because it's remote. It's tough to get to, it's expensive to get to. But that's the only limitation that people would have is just time and expense to get up there.

So we were, I left Missoula, Montana at like 7.30 at night, and I was standing on the ground in the refuge at our first camp at like 1 30 in the afternoon the following day. So it's not that hard to get to. It's not impossible to get to. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, you know, it kind of gets referred to as like the Serengeti because it has this giant convergence of biomass. 350 different species of migratory birds show up there, which makes it like this birding hotspot. And oddly enough, that's a huge part of the ecotourism business up there is because if people want to check off certain species that they're cataloging and they're birding apps and whatnot, they'd kind of have to go there at some point.

So that's a huge draw. But then that porcupine caribou heard their migration, if you take like the furthest extent, right? It's, what is it it 2,500 miles one way. Yeah 20 Well, I think it's a total of 2,700 miles that they okay. Yeah Yeah, so yeah between like 12 and and 1500 miles one way and You know, we're talking like hundreds of thousands of animals, which is pretty wild And so what we got to see was like this early convergence of like, pairs up to I think the

biggest group we saw was like 19 animals kind of converge in our little valley and head off north. And then when we're flying over the Arctic Plain, what was really interesting is there were like solo animals or pairs just laying out there in the muskeg, you know, within pretty tight proximity to the ocean. And trying to imagine, and we just got a photo sent to us, but trying to imagine that place filling up, which is how they describe it. Um, that's like happening right now. And our pilot, uh, with Coyote Air, he was talking about like flying over this thing and seeing thousands of caribou out in the Arctic Ocean that

have actually like waded out, um, just to get away from the bugs, like cool down in the summer heat and let let the Arctic breeze blow the black flies and the skeeters way Which would be pretty amazing. I mean I think in short it was the the wildest most Spectacular place I've ever seen I mean me and kale were talking while we're there Is there anywhere else we've seen that can really compare compared to this as far as the scale and the remoteness and the wildness and the intact nature of it and We've been to some pretty cool places, but but nothing that I've

Seen and experienced can touch this and pretty much anybody that you talk to that has spent time in the Brooks Ranch Have they're highly impacted by it like I mean it's just it's the Brooks Ranch. They're highly impacted by it. Like, I mean, it's just, it's, for me, it was like fairly emotional because it was just so, I've never been up there ever. And every turn of a valley just gets bigger and bigger, often ending in these permanent ice fields or glaciers. And it's pretty dang hiker friendly. Like there's fresh water everywhere, really good water. And I was just like, Oh my God, I don't have enough time to check this place out. And every part of my brain is like, you got to spend time here and check it out. And it's just like almost pointless, right? Because it's so, so big. But the reason for that, you know, folks want to be talking about this right now

and talking about preserving it is because in the, the, the triple B, the big, big, beautiful bill there's mandatory leases, lease sales that would occur in both the Western Arctic leases lease sales that would occur in both the Western Arctic and that National Petroleum Reserve Alaska NPR a and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in this this 1002 area so Yeah, so so to date, you know, it's been debated Never was opened up to drilling ever before so for decades and decades and it's been in the undeveloped state. It's in now in 2017, a similar reconciliation bill passed in which they tacked on a mandatory opening of the what's called the 1002 that happened in 2017 on the last kind of big debate like this. There were mandated lease sales that

happened. Those got sold and then some got canceled during the Biden administration. So no developments happened yet. But now the new bill just passed does force four lease sales of 400,000 acres each on the plane. And so, you know, Kel talked about getting emotional kind of flying over and seeing this place in the scale. For me, the moment was when I first saw the coastal plane, I hiked up all by myself. We got to do whatever we wanted. So one day I took off solo, took off to this small hill that was on the edge of the plain. I walked up there myself and got to the peak and looked out over this grasslands we talked about. You could see all the way to the Arctic Ocean.

And for the first time in my life, I looked over this incredible wild place that was as wild and remote and as untouched as anything I've ever seen. And then I had to look at it knowing that if my kids ever got back here, it's very likely that it would not be the same. Because in a matter of years, if all this goes through the way that the bill says it will, it could be dramatically different. And that's the first time I've ever been so starkly faced with a definitive change to a place like that, that, you know, like this could totally change the experience, the ecosystem, everything. Yeah.

That was startling to see. It's kind of an interesting thing, right? Cause these are just leases. It's not mandated development. The previous leases that were sold were actually eventually turned back in because those companies couldn't really figure out how to do anything out there economically.

There's also, through the exploration that's already been done, there's a huge disagreement on what's actually under the ground there. Like how much oil and gas up there that would be beneficial, worthwhile to get, right? So it's a situation where the companies that build the infrastructure, they're gonna make money hand over fist, but the benefit to our natural resources pool, the idea that like your pump price is going to go down dramatically is like, is just not correct, right? Like the reason that this stuff's been done in the past is because it was government subsidized. And without a big government subsidy to go up there and get this done, it's likely

not going to happen because it's so cost prohibitive to operate up there. But there's all sorts of other conversations that are going on and it's like, could you incentivize other countries to go up there and develop this by reducing their tariffs, which is a conversation that we're hearing. And then the conversation comes back to like, okay, so is it worth it for the American people to incentivize a foreign extractive industry on American soil in this extremely sensitive area that's one of the last readouts, refuges for all these different species for what? Like, what is the gain? Right? So there could be like this short-term bump in gross domestic product because there's a lot more dollars flying around in that area. But at the same time,

a huge amount of those dollars are going to be directly exported overseas and not stay in America. And how specific or vague is the language in the One Big Beautiful bill that addresses leases on minerals in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge? I mean as I understand it, the specificity ends at there's four mandatory lease sales within 10 years. They are 400,000 acres each. And you know, as far as details, that's as far as I've seen spelled out how exactly that happens. I know that there was some language early in the drafts that would either remove or expedite any kind of review or legislation review opportunities and that had that got pulled out I think. Yeah they cut the red

tapes. They were going to cut that now that's back in a little bit but I don't know are there any other details on that front? As you think there's one other thing on the Western Arctic side it's five mandated lease sales within ten years and those are four million acres each. And those Western Arctic sales are a lot closer to existing infrastructure. So like the whole Prudhoe Bay, Dalton Highway, that is a much more logistically doable jumping off point for those leases. And then of course like our Western Arctic caribou herd is basically in the dumps as far as overall population goes I mean it's been halved and halved again and then you know that also is a huge waterfowl

production area. The bill signed into law on the 4th of July what else should be on outdoorsman's radar about the bill oh well I mean there's a lot of dumpster fires in there okay pick a few to tell us about I think for it first our sporting community folks, what got pulled out? Ambler road got pulled out. Boundary waters got pulled out, but it's still worth talking about because it. Yeah. Public land sales got pulled out. But Arctic Refuge main stayed in, Western Arctic stayed in. huge main state in, Western Arctic state in, some of the like the possible funding stuff with LWCF I think is buried in there a little bit, but I don't know that as well as maybe

you do. The two big ones I want to talk about are things that got pulled out but are still happening. Right, finding different avenue, right? So through agency versus legislation. So I'll jump in on one of those things. So early on when everybody was talking about what was in this bill and fighting the public land sales and all these different things,

there was the issue of the Boundary Waters being reopened to mining. It's been a decades long battle, more than 10 years now, in which there was a foreign owned mine that was proposed to be right in the edge of the Boundary Waters. Back and forth the hunting and fishing and outdoor community has pushed back against it strongly over recent years and a couple years ago kind of won a battle on that front with a mineral withdrawal, a 20-year mineral withdrawal

which basically meant that you you know on the edges of the Boundary Waters Wilderness Canoe Area you could not have a mine like this that you, you know, on the edges of the Boundary Waters Wilderness Canoe Area, you could not have a mine like this that would be, you know, seriously threatening that water-based ecosystem with pollution, which was the big worry with these mines there on the edge. So there was a 20-year pause basically put in place. In one of the original drafts of the One Big Beautiful Bill, it was going to remove that mineral withdrawal, which would allow the mines to move forward and mandate kind of fast tracking of those permits and get that going again. It got pulled out of the bill, but then, so it

got pulled out of the bill. I saw that news, a lot of people saw that news, everyone celebrated. The very next day, the Secretary of Agriculture mentioned on Twitter, X I guess these days, that they would be taking administrative action to roll back that mineral withdrawal themselves. So that is not outside of that social media post about it. It hasn't come up yet in the actual public register, but it looks like that's going to happen. I think that's a pretty big deal for hunters and anglers.

And the other thing... And it's not just the one Chilean mine that has the proposal for the open pit copper sulfide mine, which for you Montana kids or visitors to Montana, Butte America is a good example of that. There's a lot... there's other active mine sites within the same area. But this Chilean one, you know, the company doesn't have a great track record of being environmentally friendly or good on doing their own cleanups. and that type of extraction is just known more for its mistakes than for going well. As I understand it there's not been a single mine of this type that has been developed without significant pollution issues. Which makes sense like

we're you're especially in this area it's's like highly porous. There's water everywhere You know you basically kick the ground and you can find water so the idea of bringing up all this heavy metal and The other pollutants used to refine those heavy metals on site and get them out of there It's it's way harder to stretch your brain to see how they could do it safely than the other way around. Yeah, I spent a little bit of time there a few weeks ago on my way to Isle Royale. That was my first time in the Boundary Waters, or that part of the country, and

it was so cool and so special that I was sad that it took me until I was 33 to go explore it. That's how cool the boundary waters are so place worth protecting Oh, yeah, and it's the opposite of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge from an access perspective sure It's the most accessible vast wilderness like that for many people It's the most of those visited the most visited wilderness area in the United States and despite it being the most visited You'll still have any experience you want you'll feel like you're the only one there. Yeah it's remote, it's vast, it's gorgeous. I had an incredible canoe and deer hunt there a handful of years ago. I mean it's loaded with grouse, tons of fishing opportunities. The deer hunting is tough but you're not going to have a more scenic and enjoyable experience than that.

So it's a sportsman's paradise. Yeah. It'd be a shame to see that, you know, defiled in some way. Ever wonder what happened to the hundreds of thousands of buffalo that used to call the eastern United States home? Or what caused the rise and fall of Bob White Quail? Backwoods University, hosted by me, Lake Pickle, is the latest addition to the Bear Grys feed on Meat Eaters podcast network. Together, we'll seek out a deeper understanding of wildlife, wild places, and the people who dedicate their lives to conserving both. After all, you can't love what you don't understand.

Search Bear Gryse on Apple, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast and hit that follow button to enroll in Backwoods University now. The other thing you want to talk about, Mark, was the road this rule. I think that's just something to get on people's radar. Speaking of kind of rule rollbacks, it was announced two weeks ago or something like that, that the forest service will be rolling back something called the Roadless Rule, which was something put in place like 24 years ago I believe, 2001 I guess, so yeah about 21 years ago or 24 years ago. The Roadless Rule protects 58.5 million

acres of our national forest from future road building. So back in the late 90s it became, we became aware that, oh my gosh, there's more roads in the National Forest Service than anywhere else. There's twice as many, there's twice as many miles of roads in the US Forest Service lands than there are across the rest of the nation, is the number I read recently. Something like 400,000 miles or something like that. Lots of roads. And they realized, I read another quote, was that we had cut the face off our national forest and had punched roads into every last nook and cranny except for these last kind of refuges. And Aldo Leopold and Bob Marshall and folks

like this in the 30s and 40s, even back then were saying, hey, we got to be careful. We're not leaving many of these places left. And so of course there was the wilderness designation that happened and that was amazing. But then in the 90s we realized, okay, we've got a last few sections here that we could keep in a not quite wilderness state, but at least not punched in with roads. We're going to protect those with this roadless rule. There's still some like fire management that happens in those places. There's still some development that can happen in these places. But with this layer of roadless protection, which now I think, you know, you know this better than me, I live out here,

but I think most of the best elk hunting spots, mule deer hunting spots, places that, you know, people want to get away from people, hunters want to find a backcountry place, it's often these roadless area protected parts of national forests that now, if this moves forward would be open to new road building and many other things. And this one's kind of more so spoken in terms of timber harvest and what like wildfire management is the stated need to roll back the the roadless rule which is really interesting because on its face if you rolled that back, all these areas would default to their previous management plan and the vast

majority of these roadless areas, their previous management plan didn't include timber harvest. So there would have to be, um, a new management plan brought up. And if you're like really kicking ass, you can probably do that. Let's say the fastest, I don't even believe 18 months, but let's just say that's a whole 18 months to two years of writing up that forestry management plan. And then, and then putting that into effect. The scariest part to me is this includes the mineral, right?

So it's not just access to timber, which is what gets talked about all the time, but it's access to those mineral deposits that exist in these areas too. Some of the things that we talk about as restrictions to logging, right, is when we started the setback regulations, right? So you can't cut timber this close to a stream. It's got to be setback X amount. Um, you can't harvest your Christmas tree, uh, within like, I don't know what is it,

66 feet of a stream or something like that in Montana. So that's a setback. That's right there. Yeah. Yeah. Good regulation. So, um, and then there's a lot of these areas that, that have, um, some previous old roads and, and have already already been harvested for timber as well. Um, I think there's some, some give and take with this one, but the reality is, is like,

we have so few, uh, of these areas left that don't have this previous development in them. It would be real sad to see them go that way. I mean, I think that's what a lot of this whole conversation comes down to is like, we absolutely need resources. We need to utilize natural resources. Our public lands are multiple use public lands are tremendous places for that to happen when it's done carefully and appropriately. But at the same time there are hundreds of millions of acres of our public land open to

resource extraction and done so. The last handful places that we have that aren't, the few places that are still either roadless or in a intact place, are just as rare and precious of a resource as gold, oil, or any kind of resource out there. And I think that there's a whole lot of momentum across the entire world of civilization pushing us to develop, develop, develop, develop. That's gonna happen. There's only a handful of communities of people who care about maybe preserving some of these last few spots. So those of us who do care about wildlife or wild places, it's kind of

incumbent on us to try to tap the brakes on some of this stuff where we still have that chance because we're not ever going to get it back. Yeah. And I mean, roads, just like a trail does roads bring people. I mean, that's, you know, a lot of the timber harvest that was done in the seventies was heavily government subsidized, um, 60s and 70s, because it was the government that was paying for the roads. And the, um, idea, right.

It was like, oh yeah, it's going to be a better recreation corridors for people to get into these areas, which, which is absolutely true, but that's what made that timber marketable at that time. So I'm still real confused as to how some of these things are going to actually work with, you know, like Doge was all everybody could talk about only a few short weeks ago, right? And that's about like rolling back the amount of government expense. At the same time, a lot of these big projects only happened because the government was paying for them to happen, at least in some part or portion.

You know, the funny thing, speaking of that, all this talk about how we need to increase revenues from our public lands because of the budget issues and deficit issues and all that, while folks are making that claim to justify opening these places up to development. Also in that bill, they have reduced the royalties on oil drilling, on extraction. So the folks who are going to take these resources off our public lands are paying the taxpayers in the nation less for that resource that's not helping the whole budget causes it sure all things worth considering if you're listening to the show those are your public lands on their precious nobody nobody ever brings up revising the mining act man there's an easy win

nobody ever brings it up. All right. We got a few plugs to do before we get on with the rest of the show. Marcus, there's a collab among some of our partners that I know you specifically are very excited about. Tell us about that. Yeah, well, you've already had a list of me jaw for a while, but I'll keep this one quick. Our pals at Moultrie and Onyx are working together now, which is pretty fun. Very simply put, you can now connect your Moultrie trail cameras to your Onyx hunt app. So they work together so that when you go into your Moultrie app and you log in with your Onyx account, when I head out there and I go set up a new Moultrie camera, like I did a month or so ago before I took off for Idaho, it will automatically drop a pin on my map showing where my camera is which is

pretty nice so I can always see it and then I can actually click on that pin and see the photos pulled in from my Moltre cameras in the same place. Very convenient. So very convenient some really cool different ways you can use that and you can dive into the details a little bit more but if you use Moltre cameras and if you use the Onyx Hunt app this is a great way to get the best of both worlds in one place and keep your trail camera data and your hunt plan data a little bit more easily accessible and top of mind. And it's just getting harder and harder to lose a trail camera. The

amount of trail cameras I come across in the woods that have clearly been there for a decade and not visited you know for about that same amount of time. It happens too often. If only there was an app that would show me where I lost the keys to the lock that attached my camera to the tree. Yeah. I need that one. Whitetail guy problems, you know? Yeah. One more plug. The new hats, they are in the store July 12th. So in two days from now, Marcus has one right now.

Check it out. Wired Hunt hat. So I got wired to haunt I've got a bison hat I'm pretty thrilled about these and they're gonna be available Stored at the meat eater comm in two days All right We have now served our audience a big heaping plate of vegetables when I think about content I think about the content is vegetables meat or candy We've just given you a big ol' helping of

vegetables, which is good. You need to eat your vegetables. The rest of the show, though, we got meat and candy coming at you. You guys good with that? I'm good. Okay, our next segment is One Minute Fishing. Do I feel lucky? Well, do you, punk? Go ahead. Make my cast.

One Minute Fishing is brought to you by Onyx Fish. To find your new favorite place to fish, go to onyxmaps.com slash fish. One Minute Fishing is where we go live to someone who's fishing and they have one minute to catch a fish. And if they're successful, we'll make a $500 donation to a conservation group. This week our angler is Bradley Pooler, aka Findandfish on Instagram. He's on a creek in Northern Tennessee and fishing for a donation to the Cumberland River Compact. Bradley, welcome to the show.

Howdy, hey folks. I'm so stoked to be here. Thanks for having me, guys. Thanks for being here. Bradley, you run one of my favorite accounts on Instagram You make some of the most unique fishing content on the internet tell folks what find and fish is Man that's that's super kind of you. Thank you. It's a pretty simple Concept basically when you're out fishing

And you see a snag lure then you just try to retrieve it and then fish it like right there where you found it or on that body of water. It's just like a super fun way to like try different lures and challenge yourself in ways that you wouldn't normally. So. Yeah, how did this lure recycling endeavor of your start? Well, man, I grew up fishing as a little kid, but kind of phased out of it when I was older. And I picked it back up in 2020 when the pandemic started as so many people did then.

And so while I was out visiting all these new places, trying to relearn how to fish, I just couldn't help but notice like every single place had a lure hanging out of a tree or that somebody had dropped on the bank or something. And it just became like this big scavenger hunt treasure. Okay. How many, how many lures do you think you found by now? I got crazier and crazier started with just my whole, Oh, probably I think like 360 over the three to four years that I have been doing it. And that's like before the posting, after the posting, sorry. So I've found a lot in those first years.

And what's the biggest snag of lures you've come across? Man, I think probably it was in North Alabama visiting my in-laws. We found this like big old rat's nest a lot. in North Alabama visiting my in-laws, we found this like big old rat's nest a lot. And up in a tree, pulled the pole out, tried to pull on it. And you could just see all the trees. I don't remember how many lures I got out of that, but it was a, like, it was a sizable wad of line that we pulled out of the tree.

And what's the most common lures you find in most common places you find them. I, it really varies. There's a lot. I find a good spread of lures, but a lot of rooster tails and inline spinners, especially like where they're stocking trout, and jigs, like any kind of jigs, curly tails, bobby garlands, that sort of thing. And then I've kind of found a little slew of whopper ploppers lately, which is just kind of a weird fluke, but I'm not mad about it. Are there any lures that get you really excited when

you come across them? Yeah, the whopper ploppers. Honestly, I just get giddy every time I find it. They're like nine plus dollars, you know, and they're super fun to fish super fast and the hits are amazing, of course. Okay, on the water today, have you found any lures yet this afternoon? No, no, I haven't. This is one of my favorite spots to fish and I've picked it pretty clean. Lures don't last very long here. That's good, that's good.

For today's one minute fishing, tell us about where you're at, what you're fishing for and how you're doing it. Yeah, yeah, so I'm on a creek that feeds the Cumberland and basically this is a pretty wide spot right here. Super shallow in the center, but it's deeper on the side here with a little bit of shade cover. And then I've got a little bit deeper spot over here with some weed cover. So hoping that I can just kind of, you know, cover, cover around as fast as I can. I kind of changed up my

around as fast as I can. I kind of changed up my tactic a little bit. I was gonna use a little bobby garland jig that I found here a couple weeks ago, but when I timed myself it was just too slow. I couldn't get enough retrieves. So I've switched over to just a little black rooster tail and hopefully that's gonna give me maximum casts around here and covers as much water as I can. Okay, is that a rooster tail that you found? A smallmouth? It is, not here, I don't think. It came out of a big box of tangled lures that I've pulled off of trees.

But yeah, I did find this one. And I've got a backup one over here on different rod if I need it, so. All right, Bradley, your one minute of fishing starts when you make that first cast. if I need it. So. All right, Bradley, your one minute of fishing starts when you make that first cast. Let's do it. All right. Bradley's line is in the water, had a very audible cast. That's that's kind of him for our podcast audience to make that so loud.

He's already on a second cast 10 seconds in. I like the retrieve is a good strategy. Podcast audience to make that so loud. He's already on a second cast 10 seconds in I Like the retrieve is it good? I'm wondering if he's gonna stick with a consistent retrieve on every one of the cast or do something different I think he's if he's gonna switch it up. He's just thinking cast to the other side of the canoe. Oh, there's a little twitch 30 seconds left! 30 seconds in! Keep going! You got 30 seconds left! That's amazing. What was it Bradley?

Let him focus. Let him focus. Get another one. He looks panicked now. 15 seconds left. See if he can recover. Can he do it? 10 seconds to go, Brad. Wow.

All right, one last cast. Here it is. Final cast. Twitch, Twitch, Twitch. Oh. Oh. Did not happen today. Wow.

That is your one minute. Tell us what happened there on that fish. Oh, brother. He got, he swung over the boat and then as he swung back he just flapped his tail and he was gone. It was a small mouth? Straight out of the water. It was not. It was a like kind of small bluegill like I was thinking maybe. Nice! That's pretty cool. Well, oh man, sorry guys. That was exciting, almost happened. We'll have you back on the show Bradley to do this again. I would love you started this segment man. I was like that that is a segment

I would love to do someday. So thanks so much for having you guys. Oh, you did great. Thanks for joining us Thanks for making great content. Thanks for cleaning up after your fellow anglers. Oh Thank you so much. Oh the tag is fine dot and dot fish on Instagram. Ah, there you go. Yeah, check it out Watch out. Thanks guys. We'll see you later. See you Brad. All right, we're halfway through the show. Let's take a break for some listener feedback. Phil, what's the chat have to say? Chat's doing great today. Sometimes we're a little light on questions, but we've got a surplus right now. Let's see here. Christopher asked, Cal, what is some good advice for getting ahead of hunting bans? Washington is now going after regulating coyote hunting with no science.

He corrected himself in a different comment. Yeah, it's a great question. You know, I think the boilerplate answer is your means to being proactive is securing the right to hunt and fish in your state. is securing the right to hunt and fish in your state. However, it's always consistent education. I feel like things are changing now. And the state of Washington, if you're a hunter or an angler, even in that state, you need to be engaged

because nothing is a given. So being in the room and being consistent in that state, you need to be engaged because nothing is a given. So being in the room and being consistent is always the best way to stay ahead of this stuff, which means you don't get activated only when times are bad and the fire is on your doorstep. Like you got to make, make sure that you're aware. And you can do that by, you know, being signed on with a bunch of different conservation groups and their newsletters. So you're aware of what's happening and then figuring out how to make the time to show up, um, for the comment periods, uh, in person writing, et cetera.

So it's, it's a job. Nathan asks, does Mark have a whitetail deer season update? What is he doing to prepare for the season this time of year? Yeah. So the update would be, uh, I'm hunting my homestead in Michigan. Of course it's going to be a different year there because for most of the last decade plus, more than that now, I've usually had a deer or two every year coming into the new season that I've known from previous years. So I'm like, I'm going after this deer, that deer. I'm excited to see this deer. Every deer I was interested in last year

disappeared. What do you think happened? Using the wrong bait. No bait, no bait kill. So maybe that is the wrong bait, no bait, but it is illegal where I live so is the right choice I Don't know you know more I have a thousand theories to late going to show up though It's not too late for one for certain something will show you there But the question is will the deer that I have any history with show up again after being gone for you know 12 months I don't know so all that to be said is that I'm actually kind of excited about it because it's gonna be a little bit different. It's gonna be fresh slate, gonna be a bunch of mystery and going back to just

having fun out there not worrying about what day I'm after just sitting out there in the woods and maybe spend some more time get the boys out there with me more and enjoy it in different ways. Give me some names of the deer who you hope might show up. Oh, like if they were to show back up from last year. Oh jeez. who you hope might show up. Oh, like if they were to show back up from last year? Oh, geez. There was a deer we call, my son, my kids name the deer that we see now.

So my son named this one Bulldozer, and we found his match set last spring. At the time he was four, found one of these antlers. So like very cool that my four-year-old found this antler, and he's super excited to see this deer, and we were really hopeful he'd be around last year and he was around a couple times but disappeared in early November. So if he showed back up he'd be a probably a six and a half year old buck which would be a very very old buck for our air so

that'd be really cool. It's gonna be at his peak or or like just starting to get beyond it. Yeah he's one of those deer that isn't gonna you know raise a whole bunch of eyebrows when it comes to antlers but he was a a massive body deer, like very cool, blind in one eye. I thought that was very, very cool. I'd seen him since he was a three year old, so I watched him as a three, four and five year old. Was he blind as a three year old? It was his...

I think it was late in his third year. It was like December when I noticed like, oh, something happened to that buck. And then the whole fourth year and then fifth year, you could see that very obviously injured eye. So he would be the one I'd be really excited to see. I do know that- That's hard because if you know he's coming in on one side, it'd be better to have your tree stand on the left-hand side, the dead eye side,

but he's only gonna turn to the right. The biggest buck that I ever hunted, one that I got like form a relationship with where I knew he existed for a number of years. He was blind to one eye and it didn't give me the advantage I needed to kill him. So it's not a death sentence. No, no, it's not. But yeah, so I'd love for him to show back up. And then I also drew an Iowa tag this year. So I'm very excited to go to Iowa. It's been a handful of years since I've been there. South, North? Uh, Iowa. Okay.

Iowa. That's a good way to put it. What else we got, Phil? Uh, we have a Janice asking, is Mark Kenyon ready to pace Janice in two weeks at the crazy mountain 100? Yes, Janice. Janice Poulis. She is ready.

It's very exciting though, guys. I am going to be pacing Janice for the final stretch of his 100 mile run. So how many miles? Uh, so my segment's just like eight, I think, but gonna be pacing Janus for the final stretch of his hundred mile run. So how many miles? So my segments just like eight I think but I'll be with him with for the final eight the last eight miles of his hundred mile race I will be there to drag his dead body across the finish line and very honored honored to be able to be a part of that with him. That's probably the most important position in the hundred miler I would imagine. He told me that he thought I'd be a good pacer because I'm the kind of guy who would research how to be a good pacer.

I like that. That sounds on brand. Give us a few more, Phil. Yeah, sure. Kyle says, Cal will be proud that his call for public action prompted me to contact both my senators on this subject. On that topic, how many calls or signatures would it take for him to host a round of trivia? I don't think Spencer would ever trust me with

that. So, um, that's more of a Spencer question. Kyle asking to host trivia. Oh, no, no, no, other folks in this chair same goes for Mark I think Mark would actually take me up on that. I do it. Okay, it's gonna happen Kyle though Thank you very much for for calling your elected officials. The reality is is I anybody in this room can scream at the top of our lungs, uh, as loud as we can and as long as we can, and unless other people join in, we're just not going to be effective. Like it is the definition of a, of a team effort and we can't do it without you.

So thank you. So a silver lining of the whole public land sale issue that we've experienced over the last couple months is that I think a whole lot of people finally did this, finally picked up the phone and gave folks a call. I can think of so many people I've talked to personally who are like, hey, I finally did it. It wasn't that bad. I think people realize that it's not as hard as you think. It's not intimidating. You don't need to be an expert. You don't have to debate anyone on the other side of the line, and it can make a difference.

We saw that by picking up the phone and all of us from all, you know, from all stripes of life, we all came together and made these phone calls and sent these emails and it did make a difference. And so I think hopefully to your point earlier with, you know, whether it be rights to hunt and predator hunting, all these different things, things We're gonna need to keep doing that and I think more people are confident and and comfortable doing that moving forward Yeah, and in the couple days leading up to it finally getting pulled from the bill. There were two things that Encourage me that like the tides were turning on this One was that on Twitter which is where I get my sports news, that people were tweeting about this. For the first time in my lifetime,

like Twitter became a platform where it wasn't hunters and anglers either, who like cared about this thing and who were talking about it. And it was like trending on Twitter for a few days. Mike Lee was. The other thing that was very encouraging was Mike Lee, that giant douchebag,

had tweeted out that he wondered aloud who was funding all of this. Right. Who was organizing this amount of feedback. Yeah. He's like, I know who's paying me to try to get this stuff. Well, yeah. It was so overwhelming from the people listening to this show and beyond that, that he made the assumption that there was some boogeyman out there.

Shadow organization. Yes. So that's how powerful your voices were on this message. Darn right. Cool. Let's do one more, Phil. Okay. Let's see here.

Phil from Logan, I need to know who's your favorite character in Lord of the Rings. First person that popped into my head was that fool of a took, Pippin. Pippin took his- I thought you said Gandalf. Oh, well, I mean, you know, that's kind of, I know that's too obvious, but I was, I'm referring to Peregrine. His Ark and Return of the King is, is my favorite. Um, and when Billy Boyd sings, uh, the Stuart of Gondor, it moves me.

It stirs my bones. I, I'm going to need, um, some sort of a mashup of this, Phil, to understand what you just said. In your spare time. I'll get to work on that. Our next segment is The Price is Right. Here it comes from Bozeman, Montana, Media Radio's most exciting 10 minutes,

it's The Price is Right! Yes, woo! Mark Kenyon, come on down! Hey Mark Kenyon, welcome! Ryan Callahan, come on down! You're the next two contestants on Meat Eater Radios! The Price is Right! Now here's your host,

Spencer Newhall! Thank you Phil, this is the candy that I was referring to earlier in the episode that we'd get to. Now, this game is really simple. What do you got, Cal? I said if you don't sign off by saying remember to get your dogs and cats neutered, I'm gonna be... I have it in my script.

Thank God, thank God. This game is really simple. Phil is going to tell you about a product from the Meat Eater universe, and you need to guess its price. The player with the closest answer without going over will be declared the winner. If both players go over then you'll both be told to try again. And the chat should play along as well because whoever has the closest answer will get a shout out from Phil. Alright this week

all three products are from Facebook Marketplace. Phil tell us about the first item up for bid. Yeah we're doing it slightly different so forgive me here. Let's see here. Let's start today's bidding with some utility metal trays in Belgrade, Montana. These eighth of an inch sheets of aluminum were originally fabricated as cadaver trays during COVID. But the seller says they'd be useful to any hunter as a butchering station or for

gear storage in the back of your truck. No more allowing blood to freely flow across your kitchen table, and no more awkwardly crawling across the bed of your pickup to reach that lantern. He also says they work great for hydroponic gardening or as shelves in your garage.

This has us here in the studio wondering, what can't a cadaver tray do? That's right, Phil. This is surely a listing that'll knock him dead. Wow. Alright Cal and Mark what is the price for one of those trays off of Facebook market? It's just one tray. One tray that's what he had the price we're just looking for one tray. If you want he said in his listing you could get a good deal by buying that whole thing set up there, buying multiple trays at a time,

but we're just buying one tray. And these are six and a half feet long, two and a half feet wide, and they're built with quote, marine edge that has full fluid retention. I mean, that's an expensive deal. Welded aluminum. These were designed to be cadaver trays, but this guy is sure that any outdoorsman could

use one of these. Cat, what would you do with one of them trays? Oh, I think that'd be a killer thing to just haul out and put on the kitchen counter when you're butchering stuff. Sure. Easy to clean, hit it with a little bleotch, and you're good to go. Yeah, I mean, I'd take a cadaver tray. Belgrade Montana.

That's realistic, actually. Yeah, boy. That's a tough one. How you boys doing? Do you have an answer? Again, this is just for one tray we're pricing. Six and a half feet long, two and a half feet wide, made of aluminum. And you can see in one of the details of his photos,

he shows you his welding ability. How's that weld look to you, Cal? Oh, it's beautiful. He's a good welder. But that has nothing to do with what we're purchasing today. No, but it gives you some confidence in the seller that this man takes a lot of pride in his cadaver trade work.

Yeah. All right, you boys have an answer? Yeah, I guess so. Go ahead and reveal your answers. We have Mark you boys have an answer. Yeah, I guess so go ahead and reveal your answers We have Mark Kenyon saying $35 Ryan Callahan saying $130. Oh, I won that I'm way low the correct answer is $150 giving Ryan Callahan the first point he was $20 off this seller says he'll cut you a deal if you buy four or more Phil how'd the chat do we had a couple people get it right on the money

we had Brendan say 150 dang Brendan also saying 150 well done Brendan and Nathan Marcus on stainless steel trays before kill I mean you just know the material that's expensive I mean that you just know the material. That's expensive. I mean, that's expensive. Six and a half feet of aluminum. Yeah. I suppose so. Two and a half feet wide. I'll let you know, Mark, I don't think Cal's ever lost this game.

Oh really? You're coming in up against our toughest opponent. And this is intimidating. I mean, just so people understand the context of my buying habits, I'm wearing a five-year-old free t-shirt right now. Like, not out there. Hitting the marketplace very hard. I spend a lot of time on Facebook marketplace. What a good place to get deals. Well, I do feel like, given what you just said there, you might be the kind of person who buys their clothes and stuff on Facebook marketplace. Oh, Goodwill? Yeah.

Yeah, it's hard for, I avoid Goodwill because I always come out of there with more stuff than I drop off. Find your own things in Goodwill. That's what happens to me. All right, Phil, tell us about the second item up for bid. Next up is a pheasant print loveseat with a hideaway bed in Colton, South Dakota. This loveseat is pure grandma core furniture, AKA granny chic. You know what I'm talking about. It's those loud nostalgic designs that are printed with a repeating image of a rustic barn with a farm plow perched outside,

or an old mill with a working water wheel, or a floral pattern consisting of red and orange and gold flowers. But at least those ugly couches were comfortable, right? No, absolutely not. The scratchy fabric would give you a rash, and the wood-trimmed arms were more likely to give you a neck ache than a good night's sleep. This particular couch is printed with a flushing pheasant pattern, so you know Grandpa had a say in its purchase. It's the perfect spot to watch your favorite episode of Green Acres and eat leftovers out of a country crock tub. And it was off Facebook Marketplace before I could message the seller to buy it myself. This listing disappeared in just 17 hours. Now I want to make sure I got this right because I do think

Cost of living in the region is for sale matters. So did you say this was in South Dakota in South Dakota? This is about 30 minutes outside of their biggest city Sioux Falls. So Eastern South Dakota is where this came from It's already gone though. I wish I could have logistically figured out how to make this my own But I could have logistically figured out how to make this my own, but I could not. I could see in some places this could go for a lot of money in one of the, in like kind of like that, like your wife is into. She's kind of into like that old, like boutiquey old stuff and making it new and fresh again. Do you have a guest, Mark? I do.

And this is in, you know, the hunting, the pheasant hunting lodge, capital of the world. Yeah. So what a piece. Green Acres. Phil, did you love Green Acres? I don't think I've seen an episode of Green Acres. Phil, did you love Green Acres? I don't think I've seen an episode of Green Acres. Oh, but you know the song, right? Nick at Nite? Oh yeah, yeah, sure. Green Acres is the place to be. Farm, live a little life for me.

Farm spread out far and wide. Keep manhuntin'. Just give me that countryside. There we go. We know it. All right, you boys ready? Go ahead and reveal your answers. We have Mark saying $150 and Ryan Callahan saying $64. The correct answer is $75, giving Ryan Callahan his second point. Just $11 off the correct answer.

What screws me up is what I think it's listed for versus what I'd offer. Sure. Right? $64, pretty good deal. And it's a hideaway bed on top of that. Oh, I'm walking away with that thing right at $50. No more. Yeah. Sorry. Like I said, it disappeared in 17 hours, so there must have been some real demand.

It's a steal. All right, Cal has already wrapped up the victory, but we'll see if he can get a clean sweep and make Mark run around the building naked as his tradition. Really quick, we had Odie, the Good Shepherd with 75. Nick with 75 and Spencer 2.0 with 75. Well done, you three. All right, Phil, tell us about the third item up for bid today. Well done, you three. All right, Phil, tell us about the third item up for bid today. Our final item today is First Light gear that's being sold by a former meat eater employee. He's got four items available including a brand new Refuge Parka, a brand new Elze jacket, a like new Sanctuary 2.0 jacket, and a like new Kiln hoodie.

He says it's great gear and he's happy to provide references, including from some folks who actually work at First Light. No kidding. And you can feel good about your purchase because it's helping him fund a down payment to his first home. Yeah, he says these items are price to move. It's almost as though he got them for free at a discounted rate. Cal and Mark, what is his asking price for those four pieces all together all four together it was a

Refuge parka LZ jacket sanctuary 2.0 jacket and kiln hoodie. That's a lot But it's all those four items together price to go and he's trying to buy a house He's trying to buy a house. He says and I like this individual So I'm not gonna rat him out too bad. Just uh, yeah, you like to say who it is Yeah, I feel like someone's gonna snoop this guy out. He's gonna get a lashing. It's gone. It's sold You'll never you'll never solve this mystery What is the asking price for these four first light items? Cal loves that Refuge Park. I know it Yeah, I know it.

I mean, it's, it's burly. It's amazing. I mean, I let Snort use it as like a blind dog bath. What a compliment. A whole year because it wasn't like cold enough for me to wear it. But I wanted to get the wear and tear in there. So like dog pawing and mud and all the stuff and it's still totally waterproof and it's a great great jacket. Again it's a Refuge Parka, LZ jacket, Sanctuary 2.0 jacket and a like new Kiln hoodie. You boys have your answer? Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead and reveal your answer. We have Ryan Callahan saying $550. Mark Kenyon says $500. The correct answer is $750, giving Ryan Callahan the third point and the clean sweep. Now Purchase knew they'd be worth over $1400. Yeah. So you're getting these at 50% off. Yeah, Ben in the chat was $650, who I think

was the closest. Oh, well well done Ben. I like that guy Alright, that's the end of today's game of price is right Thanks for playing along and remember to help control the pet population have your pets spayed and neutered Love that great job drew carry. He's been hosting prices right for 18 years now if you'd like to feel old I've never that's ever watched a drew carry prices, right? Mm you ever watch Drew Carey on Whose Line Is It Anyway? No. That's when I used to watch it. I liked Drew Carey on the Drew Carey show. Cleveland Rocks. Yeah an amazing intro. That's when people cared about the music that played for the the intro of their sitcom. Good stuff. Choreographed

dances through the streets. Well and they had to change who's that? Presidents of the United States of America? I think so. Yeah. And then they had to change that intro a few times. Oh, I didn't, I appointment in three minutes. All right, Cal, what did you bring to show the classroom today? What were we supposed to bring, Spencer? Geez. Here we go. I brought a good attitude. Okay.

And somehow worse than the shoe. Did you ever consider? I'm wearing flip flops today. Does Cale ever open emails? I do. There's just a lot of them. A lot of them. All right.

Yeah. As I nervously scan for, Oh, I have, a piece of audio. Phil can tell you more about this, but yeah. Sure, it's the new audio equipment. The Zoom PodTrack P4, I bought it for Cal, so he could have a more compact setup for his remote podcast interviews. Cause he's a man, he's a man on the road.

He's, he's busy. Someday that's going to end up in Goodwill. Out, out there on long and lonesome. All right, Marcus, what did you bring for show and tell? I brought a very small caribou antler From the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. That is very cute. Wow. We were finding all sorts of caribou sheds throughout our adventure that we told everybody about and some big ones But I got to thinking man, I can't Maybe I could bring one big one home. It'd be a little bit of a hassle But the problem is you can't bring one home of anything in my household because I've got two sons

Oh, if you've got one you've got none So I wasn't gonna bring two huge caribou sheds back with everything else So I decided to search out the smallest antlers I could find how many antlers did you guys see? Oh, jeez I mean quite a few but put a number on it. I've found Three moose antlers. No, no, I mean how I at the Arctic National Wildlife Ref, okay? Yeah Yeah, but total antlers. I mean we just we wouldn't even go pick them up You would just see them off in the distance. I would say you know more than 50. Yeah Probably brought home the smallest so I brought the two smallest ones I could find and this is one of them and

the boys were very excited with them and they keep them in their bedroom now and it feels pretty Pretty exotic to them a caribou antler they can touch and feel and say the dad found this in Alaska and Kind of a fun story for them to I can't leave their pedicles even that small even at their their youngest antler development age well yeah and I mean that could have been a off a cow cow so female said Brent says it's the antler from the Grinch's dog yeah yeah it's pretty good it does look like that yeah that is a cool little yeah I won uh dad of the week award with these. Now, how did you decide which son got which antler? That was a little bit of like a push and shove and see who grabbed what first. Oh, I

stayed out of that one. Uh-huh, but they were both happy with what they ended up with and And very excited to bring those back and show their buddies here in a month or so. You see how easy that is Cal You must have a hundred antlers at your house you could have brought. I do. I got a billion things going through my brain at every second though too. So it was hard to keep it straight. I thought, Cal, I thought you were going to bring your moose shed.

I did. Because Cal's got a cool moose shed story for my trip if we have time to tell it. I packed a huge moose shed home all the way. The only it was here to look at. Yeah. And I just, yeah. But the way you found it.

Well, we flew over it. And somebody in the plane made the comment like, oh, that's a hikeable distance from camp. You? No, not me. But when we landed the whole time, I was like, that's a lot further away. You cover a lot of ground in a plane, right?

And yeah, so I just started to hike on them. Eventually did, did come across it. Uh, but also found like a old caribou dead head that was faced down in the muskeg and the antlers were like sinking into the muskeg. Like it's going to be a fossil here in another thousand years, you know? Um, and yeah, real, real cool. Just big long slog, but found that, brought it all the way back. Wish I could see it. Yeah. I'd love to be holding that thing right now. Yeah, it impressed the hell out of the UPS driver the other day. All right, my show and tell item is a stamp. This is a stamp that my wife got me this year,

item is a stamp. This is a stamp that my wife got me this year, the last time we were in New York City. And this is a book stamp so that I can stamp all of my books. It says from the Library of Spencer New Art. It's got a shirtless Smokey the Bear on there who's holding a shovel. And this way when Mark Kenyon wants to borrow a book from me, he knows that he has to give it back There's no arguing because all of my books now have this stamp in them Thank you for doing this Spencer because all of my friends think I'm the biggest nerd in the world Oh, I have something similar instead of an ink stamp. I've got one of the things where I'm playing an ink stamp I've got one of the things where I'm like I'm having a brain park. It's like a press.

It presses a crest onto my book that says from the library of Mark Kenyon and they think I'm a total goober. So thank you Spencer for joining me in this. So this is one of my favorite gifts I've ever gotten. It's Smokey the Bear telling everyone that that is my damn book. Alright that brings us to the end of the show. Let's get some final feedback from the listeners. Phil, what's the chat have to say?

Yeah. We got a question from Mark. He says, we started planning out an Alaska caribou hunt in five years. And this new bill is putting a wrench in it. My dad says we shouldn't hunt them because we'd be putting additional stress on the herd. And then he followed it up with just like general thoughts from you guys. Man, the porcupine caribou herd, which is the herd here in the refuge where this is happening, is one of the only caribou herds that's not in decline right now.

Most others are plummeting. This one has been doing pretty decent at the moment, but this could change things. I mean it could, we just don't know yet when all this is going to start happening and what that's going to look like. So I guess I'm going to put my faith in the Alaska fishing game and hope that they're going to adjust tag allocations if, if things start going nose down, but I would be keeping tabs on it. Oh, and the other thing is like, people need to go up and see this area and have these adventures.

Uh, once you do, you can't think, oh man, this would be Bella better if we were developing it for. Anything other than what it's constantly doing, which is, you know, creating unbelievable amounts of life. Right. So, um, I think it's know, creating unbelievable amounts of life. Right. So, um, I think it's important that you go on that hunt. Also, a lot can change in five years, a lot can change in six months, um, which is about the amount of time that's taken for this big, beautiful bill to happen

for the Trump administration. Also, I think probably one of the hardest parts for people to plan an Alaska hunt or trip is just saving the money. So I don't know, keep, keep planning that trip for five years from now. Yeah, and there's a heck of a lot of stuff to do up there, even if the caribou hunt doesn't happen for one reason or another. There's amazing rafting opportunities, hiking opportunities, backpacking, bird watching. I mean, see it one way or another.

Yep. Carl asks, Spencer, what's your favorite bar in Yankton? Oh, glad you asked, Carl. The Ice House. That's just like a classic answer. I think everyone who's been to Yankton and been to a bar there, that's their favorite bar. It's right next to the Missouri River. You've got great scenery. And then when you finish your drink, you order a bottle, of course, you get to smash that bottle against the building underneath their patio. It's a very satisfying experience. It's very motivating to have that next beer. Not into recycling there, huh?

Recycling it right back to the earth under that porch. Okay. What else you got, Phil? Jeremy says, question for the crew. I'm about to take a mate in his first real hunt. Do I put him up front and give him the best cracker as a watch and learn approach better? Feel it out, Very dynamic situation.

The, my only thing that I would tell you have to do is, is put that person in a situation where they can try to make their own informed decisions. Um, you know, it's just not very impactful if you are doing all the hunting and then you're like, Hey, pull the trigger. Right. You got to put them in a position to where they'd start learning the hunting and have to make some of those decisions along the way. Yeah.

I wouldn't argue with that. I would also say, I mean, it depends on what their exposure is to the experience preceding this one hunt. Like if they have, if they're coming right off the couch and have done nothing out here like this, I would say that's probably, it'd be a lot to throw you right into the fire right away and tell you, hey, you're hunting shoot. It might be worth letting them tag along for a while, but I've had plenty of times where someone's been exploring these things on their own. They've been dabbling. They've been testing. They've been watching They've been thinking about it and they just need someone with them for that final step to really go on a real hunt But they've been slowly getting there in that case then yeah, give them those opportunities, but I agree with what you're saying

Yeah, I think when I'm with an inexperienced hunter one of the top things I noticed that they struggle with is the speed of things Whether it's like now you have to be really slow and and like treat each one of these moments like it really matters or now You got to go really fast. Like you got to make a decision You got to get to this spot you have to like do this next thing So I think if you can get them to tag along and just watch and and try to get a feel For when things need to be slow you go slow and, when things need to be fast, you go fast. It's just going to put him in a better position.

We'll do a couple more. Uh, where was the one? Oh, yeah, Nate asks, well, first he says he's chasing his first buck in South Dakota this year. What time of year do you know a buck is looking like it's going to be a big one? Is there a saying like with corn, knee high by 4th of July?

Oh, you guys should come up with one right now. Uh, you know, for up with one right now. Uh, you know, for me, usually in July, you're like, okay, that's probably going to be a good one, but really once it, once August hits, then you know, like, oh yeah, like that, you know, what a buck's going to be once August rolls around and then by at least, you know, places I spend time by mid August, they're basically what they're going to be. They start hardening from mid August, from mid August on, and then peel velvet that first week of September give or take you know a little bit So yeah in July you're getting like a general sense like who I think so and then August you know so yeah in July

You're probably looking at antlers that have like a hot dog shape almost they're like still bulbous You'll have a good idea. I don't think you're going to be surprised if you get a buck on trail camera two weeks from now. I don't think you're gonna be shocked in August at what that deer looks like. So you'll have a good idea right now. Just to follow up on the book talk Spencer asks if anybody is reading anything good, any book recommendations? The Quiet World by Douglas Brinkley would be one I'd recommend for anyone who's been intrigued by our conversation today. That book's all about the history of public lands and wildlife and conservation in

Alaska. Fascinating history of how the Alaska we know today came to be. The many battles like what we've been talking about today have been happening for decades and decades, various iterations of it. Super interesting, very interesting characters. Many of the names that you've heard in podcasts on Meteor or within films or wherever it might be stuff like Aldo Leopold, Bob Marshall, Olaus Murie, John Muir, Theodore Roosevelt, all these people had a really integral part of Alaska's history as well that I think most people don't know. I didn't know a lot of this stuff, even as someone who's written about this extensively.

So fascinating and a pretty page turner of a history book. So that's The Quiet World by Douglas Brinkley. I'm on my 26th book of the year right now. It's Pirates Code. It's all about pirates. It's okay. It's fine. It's gonna be like a three and a half star book for me when I'm done, I think.

Best thing I've read at is of late, Ridgeline. We had Michael Punk on the Meteor podcast a few years ago. He also wrote The Revenant. That is a great work of historical fiction. Would recommend that to anyone who is interested in that subject matter. Also Wolf Island, I bought that book while I was at Isle Royale and I loved it.

It was- It's on my to read list. Really, really fascinating stuff. And a book always feels like it's stronger when it has a firsthand account. And this is written by one of those biologists who was one of the first people to work on the moose and wolf relationship of Isle Royale. It's a great read, especially if you're interested in that part of the world.

David Meach, right? Or Mech, something like that? Yes. M-E-C-H. Heck yeah. I just got the Warrior's Garden by Richard Ryan in the mail, so I'm gonna start digging through that. My next book was actually recommended by Phil's wife, Adrienne, The Feather Thief, so I'm very excited about that one. Oh yeah, it's like a three-day

book. Good. It's a fast one. Alright, that brings us to the end of the show. Thanks, Cal. Thanks, Marcus. Thanks, Spencer. See you next week. Good time. Ever wonder what happened to the hundreds of thousands of buffalo that used to call the Eastern United States home? Or what caused the rise and fall of Bobwhite quail? Backwoods University, hosted by me, Lake Pickle, is the latest addition to the Bear Grys feed on Meat Eaters podcast network. Together, we'll seek out a deeper understanding of wildlife, wild places, and the people who dedicate their lives to conserving both. After all, you can't love what you don't understand.

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