The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 754: How to Skin an Otter

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

Steven Rinella talks with Heather Douville and Jimmy Rinella in Alaska. Topics discussed: Big sea otters; the proper skinning technique; the importance of a sharp knife; belly contents; and more.  Connect with Steve and The MeatEater Podcast Network Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law, but hear this. On-X hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love in On-X are available for your hunts this season. Now, the Hunt app is a fully functioning GPS. with hunting maps that include

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breed, or the last of a dying breed, the new specimen of an emerging breed of sea otter hunters. And before you have a heart attack, Heather will explain why it comes that she is allowed to hunt and skin sea otters and why, say, me or my son James here, are not. Okay. So this sea otter is legally harvested because, by the Marine Mammal Protection Act and the agency, I'm able to participate and hunt marine mammals and work with their furs.

So you can hunt it, you can skin it, you can make stuff out of it, you can't sell the hide hole, but you make and sell products from sea otter hide. Right. And sea otter fur is the densest fur. Yeah, it's a densest fur out of any mammal. So if you look closely, you guys,

This sea otter, you know, I hosed it off, but when you part their fur, that undercoat stays dry. So I brought a little piece of tanned fur, and if you dunk it under the water, you know, it'll look wet. But when you part the fur, that undercoat's always dry, and that's what keeps sea otter warm. They don't have a fat layer like seals do. Not really, like seals have a thick blubber. sea otter depend on their incredibly dense coat and these unique properties and their extremely high metabolism which is why they eat so much so this one weighs 82 pounds we weighed it so this one would consume like 20 pounds of shellfish per day wow so they have extremely high metabolism he's good for 20 pounds of shellfish a day per day so they can decimate an area pretty quickly when a group of them, you know, move in and...

Damn. I start by removing the paws, and you could see it on its paws here that has some scars from digging. That's the cutest little paw in the world right there. Got some little retractable claws like a... Yep. Yeah.

And then I just go around. Okay, so you removed the front feet at the wrist joint. You're taking the back feet all the way off? Nope, I just cut around. Okay. And up like this. Cut up to the vent. And then same thing on this side.

How many otters are you skinning a year? last year almost 200 and this year i got about 120 so far okay and what do you what number are you shooting for uh i've maxed my don't keep the tail i've maxed my personal budget for tanning that's the limiting factor this is my last one okay until i could sell so some items and and sell them and try to Got it because it's so expensive to get them tanned. Yeah, it's about $108 a piece. All right. If you send a large volume, you get a price break,

and the price break is about 108. I notice you don't retain the tail. Yeah, so I'm not saving the tail, and I also don't save the face. So in that way, it's a lot different than normal, skinny normal fur bears, because of the normal fur bear you want, you got the tail in the face,

or else they'll call it damaged. Right, and we can't sell whole pelt. Yep. So you just want what use any, it's usable to use. I used to skin the whole thing and keep the face and tail on the pelt. But since it's illegal to sell whole pelt and it's illegal for anyone who isn't eligible through the Marine Mammal Protection Act to obtain one,

they've gone missing when I've sent them off to tanneries. They've gone missing off air cargo. Oh, really? from a tannery I had used. So if they're not whole to begin with, they're less likely to go missing. And I haven't had one go missing since. We've had boxes of them go missing.

No kidding. Whole high, yeah, I see. So if you, even if you didn't sell it but gave it to me, I legally wouldn't be able to retain this. Right, not a whole pelt. It has to be converted to what is called an authentic native handicraft. That's a male?

this is a male yeah it has to be sewn into something where you can't make it whole got it and in how many is your limiting factor in how many products you make because you make scarves hats mittens pillows is your are you limited mostly by how many you can sew like how much you can sew or are you limited by how much you can hunt I would go out hunt every day if I could as many as I can whenever I can because they're trying to hunt to achieve some sort of balance in our ecosystem

because there's just an overabundant population of sea otters and we're not able to harvest, you know, the shellfish that we used to anymore. But I prefer to hunt. I like to be outside on the, you know, in the skiff. You prefer that to sewing. Yeah. And I reserve sewing

for those late fall and winter months where it's pouring rain, blowing 60, dark. Is it bland? Yeah. My dad sharpened this knife. It's so sharp. He told me he did. It's sharp.

It's ridiculous sharp. So he said it's very sharp, yeah. The only other person that sharpened my knife and got it razor sharp like my dad does is you. You sharpened my knife one time? Yeah. And I was like, so when I took this first cut, I was like, ugh, because I got close, because I cannot get my knives this sharp, but you and my dad are pros. Now, just for people that aren't, this is on video, if you want to go check it out on video, but there's a good chance you're just listening.

So, Heather has gotten the otter, cut around the base, cut around all four legs, cut around the base of the tail, open it up from chin down to, chin to groin. And we skin this on a table flat. Well, typically at home, I'd use my tailgate. Okay. So you don't hang them. Why do you hang a deer? Why a tailgate?

It works better for us to just skin them flat and roll them. Okay. Same as a seal. So we'd skin a seal the same way. I have two different knives. Not a drop point girl. This is my skinning knife. Okay.

So I prefer a skinny knife that isn't a drop point, and then I have this flat, like a four-and-a-half-inch knife for roughing around the paws, you know, to remove them and going around those bony areas. Is the bruising on the hide from getting in a fight with another otter? Yeah, sometimes they have bruises like there was one we saw here. But they do get out with each other. And they scrap, especially these big males are pretty aggressive. Yeah, this sucker is like, I just would never guess that they're as big as they are. Like, you've gotten them close to 100 pounds. Yeah, this one weighs, you know, like 82 pounds.

But the largest one I ever got was 99 pounds. And, you know, I'm... You know, I got a question for you, like, just while we're on it here, just interrupt you. Yeah, you bet. In, like, cleaning normal fur bears, you never would want to skin them soaking wet like this. You'd always want to dry them first. How do you venture, how do you dry it? So I would flesh it.

I flesh all these with the pressure washer. So as you can see, I'm skinning it, and I'm just roughing it out. because you can spend an hour skinning it real close or I could spend 10 minutes skinning it like this and 10 minutes flushing it with the pressure washer. So when working with large volumes, you want to be as efficient as possible. And you're going to get it wet when you flesh it anyways.

Yeah, and so then I would salt it, you know, let it drip after I flesh it. Okay. Salt it, fold it the hot dog way, you know, in and roll it and let it keep. cure for like three days and that'll dry it out shake it out and you have to hang it with a dehumidifier in my greenhouse which is now my fur drying shed and they dry they're cured and dried so here's another bruise see that on its back that's from him duking it out with his bodies

yeah they're enemies so would a male like this be territorial over a certain area or do they move around I think so the big males like this they tend to be more like loners. This guy was alone. Not with the pod. And usually when you see a single one like that can I please by here usually when you see

one just single it's typically a bigger male. Hey folks, exciting news for those who live or hunt in Canada. You might not be able to join our raffles and sweepstakes and all that because of raffle and sweepstakes law but

But hear this, on-X hunt is now in Canada. It is now at your fingertips, you Canadians. The great features that you love and on-X are available for your hunts this season. Now, the hunt app is a fully functioning GPS with hunting maps that include public and crown land, hunting zones, aerial imagery, 24K top-o maps, waypoints, and tracking. You can even use offline maps to see where you are without cell phone service. is a special offer. You can get a free three months to try out on X if you visit onxmaps.com slash meat.

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Designed by hunters, four hunters, with a deep commitment to conservation and land access. No shortcuts, no excuses. Just gear you can count on. Head to firstlight.com. That's f-I-R-S-T-L-I-T-E dot com. How long it would take you to skin your first one compared to where you're at now? I just talked about this. Oh, man, I remember my dad, when my dad teaches you, he shows you once.

That's how he learned. Then he gives you the knife. So I'm out there by myself in the dark with the headlamp, you know, it's winter. And it took me like an hour and a half. And I thought, oh, man, I'll never be able to do this. and he's so good at it and oh so your dad was good at skinning otters already

before you started hunting like 10 minutes so after a lot of practice you know now I could skin one in about 10 minutes too but initially it took me like an hour and a half I was pretty discouraged

but I didn't want to give up so I'm going to turn this guy around and same thing on the side and sometimes this is called the Ussic Yeah man Sometimes those are broke

Oh really? Yeah Huh So I always check My dad had a term That would basically In Italian

What was it That you were a dead dick. Oh. That was broke? That would, well, that would, he would qualify, you know. Sometimes they're broke because they're pretty aggressive, but... Huh. You've seen broken Usocks?

Mm-hmm. Sea otter. Oh. Actually, I don't know if I've ever seen the other kind of Ustick, but, yeah, sometimes they're broken. Sometimes you find sea otter with bullets in them, and I have a jar. Every year I keep a jar. And whatever I pull out of them, bird shot. It's throwing a jar.

223, I pulled out of there. I keep them. Okay, so now the otter's on its back. She's skinning from the center line back in the other direction. He's half done, right? Yeah. Half done. And then just to, we won't see this part, but just as you're doing this.

So you're going to get this skin off. And like you said, you're going fast, so you leave on, you're leaving on a lot of muscle, some fat. We did a flop with some guys skinning in Africa and they're clean skinned. So they didn't go back and flesh anything. They would just take two guys to take all the time in the world just to totally clean skin something. But you're doing a rougher skin. Kind of roughing it out.

Because typically you'd hunt in larger volumes. So if you have 15 to skin and they're. They're incredibly dense fur is going to hold that body heat. You get the pelt off fast. Got it, got it. You can't wait until tomorrow. They'll get a green belly and it will start to spoil. And when you, and you'll flesh with, you'll lay it out down by the beach so you don't make a mess.

And you flesh with the pressure washer. Yeah, I use. And that comes off just clean. Yeah. It's pretty incredible tool. And then from there, so then you got a soaking wet, but clean, flesh. hide and then you're laying it and really just packing it and salt kind of lay it flat let it drip you know and then rub salt on it just like you would salt any hide okay

and then both sides um nope just the just the skin side i okay sometimes i put just the salt from the table it's you know yeah there from previous hides and but i mean but a hide like this is going to use a few pounds of salt right i think i can salt about 10 pelts with a 50 pound bag of salt. Okay. All right. I usually go through over 1,000 pounds of salt a year. Okay.

So you pack five pounds of salt on a hide like this. Yeah. And it has to be sit there. How many days to cure? About three days. You want to at least three days. We live in a really wet climate. So I want to make sure it's fully cured.

Then you shake it out and hang it up to dry. And I use a dehumidifier to aid in the drying process. or else I don't think it ever would dry where we live it's just too rainy too humid and each tannery has a different preference and how you should mail your pelt so some some tanneries for c r's they'll flesh them for you really so you just skin them like this rough them out salt them and chip them but the tannery I use want some skin fleshed salted and dried Got it. What do you think of this, Maddie, man? It's really cool. Yeah? I think... You like Seth's camera angle?

Should we see what it's been eating when we're all done? My guess is clams. Hang tight for what's been eating, buddy. And hey, we know the clams aren't hot if it's got clams. That's true. We just eat them straight out of it. Okay, now you're on the finishing touches. You've skinned both sides back to the backbone, and now you're just skinning down the backbone. So sea otter's on its belly, skinning.

And it does have a little fat on it. Normally they're this would be all purple so no fat at all. Sea otters where I live on the other side of the island are pretty skinny actually. And it's what interesting about these sea otters too is like you think of people that, uh, people that first came when like Euro-Americans first showed up, well not just Euro-Americans, people come from Mexico and all over the world. Yeah, showed up in like California was like the gold rush brought in. outsiders um in southeast alaska was sea otters brought in outsiders yeah they were they were referred to their fur was referred to as soft gold soft gold and it took a hundred years for you know russians um and the fur trade it took a hundred years to wipe out the population yeah and so in

1911 with the fur seal treaty was signed that ended the fur trade there was zero sea otters in most of the stay i think there's just a few left in the allusion chain took a century to do it yeah 100 so i never thought about like i never thought about the timeline on that yeah and um anyway going around the face here so i'm going around the face here so i'm just sort of cutting around the nose because I don't you know I don't save the face or the tail okay and then we can take a look and see what it's been eating and I collect data on all the sea otters that I get that's it hides off hides off hold it up for the camera okay Jimmy help hold that up oh that's a slick table that's not actually a table because it's a lid to some kind of

box oh no it's hooked there you go so holds off no holes off you're fine here we go I could rinse in it would look better about five feet tall it weighed more than the halibut that was caught today yep weighed more than a big halibut and we could see what it's been eating okay that'll be the end of the that'll be the end of our flop is the reveal Can I set this right here? Maddie, man. All right, any guesses? Maddie.

Clans. I'm going to guess clams. Maddie. How much weight will that hide pertain compared to? It would this be a 70 pound? Oh, that's a good question. I mean, because the hide has, you know, some of the... Yeah.

Maddie, you can perch up on that table or whatever and stand and watch, but don't get in front of that camera, okay? Don't block the view, but you can perch up and watch what's going on. Any guesses on what it's been eating? I'm going to guess. Shrimp. Shrimp? I'm going to guess clams.

Now, sea otter guts is one of the worst smells I've ever smelled. So are you ready? Are we ready? Are we ready? Sometimes I do. Sometimes I retch. Seriously? Yes, it's, it's, I never know.

You going to change your guess from shrimp? I like the sounds of shrimp. shrimp he's guessing maybe what's your guess buddy what he's been eating fish we got shrimp we got fish connolly urchins urchins archins connolly I guess clams you going clams shrimps to clams Connolly what are you guessing oh man who yeah damn it's the worst like that wow yeah that's strong Who thought of sea otter's guts and smells so bad? So I noticed in the warmer, on the warmer days, a lot of times their bellies empty.

Yeah, like his. Look at that. Because they don't need as much food to keep warm. Oh, God. Nothing. Nothing. Who gas nothing? No, Connolly, you never made a guess. You could see what it's been eating yesterday.

What you meant to say was? nothing. When he held his, when he held his tongue, he meant nothing. What about yesterday? He hasn't eaten yet today. Yesterday. Lord knows. Crab. Is it crab legs? Is that what I see in there? That one's a crab leg. You see a crab leg in there? Look right here. This is, I just, this is such a strong smell. Oh. Is this an, a little crab?

Shrimp. No. See the little. What are you seeing there, Jimmy? Get your nose in there and tell me what you see. Oh, urchin. Who said urchin? A little bit of everything. Maybe.

Orchin, crab. Is that clam, the shells right here? See, the needles? That's an urchin, which I'm shocked. It even found one. Taste that, Jimmy. Are we allowed to possesses? You do it all, do it.

Heather? There's gringoes or no. I think that. I tried to check and I think there's no provision. I don't know. I shouldn't say this because I don't, I'm not. From what I. Yeah, I heard, I heard, but look, it's not, they're usually never intact because you shoot them in the head.

All right, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, meat eater flop episode. Seater, Hunter, Skinner, Heather Duvill. Skinned to how much, 82 pounder? Skinned to 82-pound otter. The work has just begun. If you're curious, he did not eat today. Yesterday, he had quite a little variety. He had a captain's platter yesterday of seafood items.

It found an urchin. Yeah, and we had a kid named Conley who kind of made that right guess by not saying anything when I asked what it ate. Perfect. Nothing. Thank you for joining. Oh, come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

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