The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 798: Bonus - Tis The Season To Be Hunting

Episode Date: November 28, 2025

Steven Rinella talks with Ryan Callaghan, Spencer Neuharth, Randall Williams, and Cory Calkins. Topics discussed: Cal's AK grizzly; the new CEO of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers; our newest true crime podcast "Blood Trails" and why you oughta keep your eyes pealed in the woods; a dude poaching deer on prison grounds; baiting with a medium-sized deer; self turn-ins; foul tasting salt water estuary ducks; how you can't get "almost-charged," deferring to Tony Peterson while deer hunting in Nebraska; and more.  Connect with Steve and The MeatEater Podcast Network Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. For our friends north of the border, Anex Hunt just got better in Canada. Now you can get nationwide coverage for less than a box of shells. Plus, Anex has dropped big updates to Crownland layers and added parcel boundaries where available. You still get fully functional offline maps,

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First Light, FHF gear, Dave Smith decoys, Phelps, and the Meat Eater store. Whether you're chasing elk, setting decoys, or just gearing up for camp, this is the time. to upgrade the kit that carries you through the season. Visit your favorite brand site to find your deal and don't miss the Meat Eater Black Friday sale. Hello, everybody. You may have noticed that we did not air an episode of Meat Eater Radio Live yesterday

because of the Thanksgiving holiday here in the good old US of A. So in lieu of that, we decided to drop this bonus Meat Eater podcast crew episode. It's Steve and the gang going over fall hunting stories, some newsy bits. It's kind of a thrill. back, right? And it was supposed to come out in December. So you'll hear references to things

happening in December. And you can just ignore those because you're listening to it right now. And hey, while you're at it, why don't you go on over to themeatheater.com where we're having our big Black Friday blowout channel from now through December 1st. You can get up to 50% savings on things across the entire meat eater family of brands. I'm talking first light. I'm talking FHF. I'm talking Dave Smith decoys. I'm talking Phelps game calls. I'm talking the meat eater store itself. It's a big family. We hope you enjoy this podcast, and more importantly, we hope you are enjoying the holiday. Thank you. This is the Meat-Eater podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely bug-bitten, and in my case,

underwearless. We hunt to meet-eater podcast. You can't predict anything. Brought to you by First Light. When I'm hunting, I need gear that. won't quit first light builds no compromise gear that keeps me in the field longer no shortcuts just gear that works check it out at first light dot com that's f i r s t l i t e dot com welcome to the show everybody that's a strong welcome yeah hell yes got a great lineup here today we're going to do a bunch of news we're going to do some updates uh i have an item actually spent are Newhart's here.

You can continue. Fresh off killing a big buck. Mm-hmm. Randall Williams is here. Mm-hmm. Fresh off of nothing. Fresh off of nothing. Heartbreaker.

Cory Kalkins. I don't remember. You like the Kalkins better. Kalkins works better for me. Corey Kalkins. Fresh off of what? Helping some friends fill their freezers. Good deal.

That's nice deal. Ryan Callahan's here. Fresh from killing a big old grizzly. well yeah pretty fresh well he said he wants it he wants an even bigger one well parts of me still smell like that so that's being greedy i've been wearing your waiters around and they're coated in that grease they're like extra waterproof yeah the water doesn't even have a chance to get to the waiter because it's held up by it gets blocked by grease before it can touch the waiter yeah if i may this seems like a good time happy birthday to you it's cal's birthday it's cal's birthday

Oh, yeah. How old are you? 43. How are you one? 43. Yeah, that happened. No one joined. That's cool, man.

Yeah. Halfway to 86. Yeah, I'm going to take Friday off. Halfway to get kicked out of the bar. And Phil's here. He's neck deep. He's neck deep into Cratchett by now. The 12th edition of the Cratchett Report.

Nice. Oh, dude, I'm licking my lips. So since this hasn't released yet, have we already been there? This comes out December 15th. yes yeah I've already been oh and I'm still really can I get a review from the performance it was good

yeah I got really drunk that night so I don't remember the play Phil was the only guy that did any good I was on the edge of my seat the whole time wondering which ghost would come out next everybody sucked except Phil that's what we're doing this year is we're changing the order of the ghost we shuffle it every night

just to keep people on their toes here's a weird this is nothing to do with anything but just a weird ethics question so so my friend mercer long sends me this here well sends me a pocket knife not this sends me a pocket knife with the daniel boon quote engraved on just has a nice old friendship gesture and it's got the quote i was happy in the midst of dangers and inconveniences which is a boon quote he sends it to me and i promptly lose it turkey hunting so one year later i I go back to where I remember I remember needed to fix something on a little knob.

One year later, I go back to the knob, but I can't remember what knob it was. So I check a couple knobs, never acquire it. Tell them, I lost the knife, the Daniel Boone knife. He sends me another one. I'm in Africa, and I run into these fellas actually using one of those friction boards to make a fire. They got the spindle in the wood And I want that thing so bad But I have nothing to offer for it

So I take Mercer's gift And trade it And then I feel guilty So then I went and ordered me up my own Is that like, you know what I'm saying? So now I'm just in a real bind It's a gift that keeps on giving

It's like an ethical bind What's the value of that knife? I don't know. Yeah, but you could also just, just say, like, I appreciated the gesture so much that I had, I invested in it myself. Yeah, I bought myself, you know. Yeah. It's also, like, you're not the type of guy who would have. Yeah.

Oh, sorry. You went about, you bought that on your own had he not started it. No, no, no. I wouldn't even have thought about it. It's also super cool that there's a guy in Africa going around with a knife with a Daniel Boone quote on it. My kid asked, my kid, my little one, he kind of was more, he was into that trade. He liked the politics of that trade. And he was not too long ago asking me if I think that he's kept it sharp.

And if I think that people have been asking him about it. And I said yes. Well, I said no and yes. Hmm. Yeah. Because I don't know how he would. I don't know what he would have to like, he's probably honing it on a wet rock. I would think that a big part of their conversation was like, yeah, great trade.

chunk of wood for a knife but we also had to sit through 40 minute explanation of some dude named Daniel and he's like I basically gave away a book of matches you know

oh listen he didn't hesitate I was swap you both were satisfied afterwards I think you should double down on this are you familiar with like

the little red paper clip thing or the blue pan or something someone starts with like a little red paper clip and they trade that for a pen and then they trade that Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, my kids always talk about that.

Yeah, whatever. And eventually they end up with the house. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could do that now. Well, I went the wrong direction. No, I don't think so. He's on this way to doing that. You, you both, like, elevated yourselves with what you received. Oh, like, if I came to someone and said, yeah, this is a genuine. Yes. This is a genuine, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah.

And then you've-friction board. Yeah, do you know the backstory of this? Fiction board. It could be a very valuable friction board for this. Well, I got a picture. picture the guy. He's a Maasai warrior decked out with a Maasai spear. And that's his friction board. And I got a picture of him holding the knife. Okay. It's a good start. So yeah, man, I'll trade that for what a house? Well, eventually, yeah, whatever. Once you're like one acre, you're going to have to start out small with a broken washing machine to get to. So, you know, like

15 trades from now, you're going to have an acre somewhere. You know, wow. Um, a lot of news. We haven't covered. We haven't done a news show in a long time. We're going to cover off on some interesting news. But the first bit of news we haven't talked about on the podcast is, um, uh, Callahan's big news. Callahan, you want to explain your big news? Uh, not your, not your bear. Yeah. Um, I am the incoming CEO at backcountry hunters and anglers, which is, is super cool. I start officially January 1st and organization I've volunteered with for over a decade at this point. I've really been on the board. board that long? Well, in various capacities. In various capacities. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because, yeah, I don't know,

there's a lot of rules involving nonprofit boards and how they function, the bylaws. So, like, you can serve so long as just a board member at large, and then you can serve longer if you become a committee chair or, you know, boring stuff like that. But, yeah. Yeah. So I'm super excited. and very optimistic for the future of those organizations in general, but BHA specifically because I think we got a big voice and a lot of good things going for us, nonpartisan participation, particularly. I think you're going to do a good job, man. Well, thank you very much.

I'm looking forward to it. A lot to learn, a little scary, a lot of things I don't know, which was kind of my... There's a lot of knobs and switches that you've never seen from your cockpit here. Exactly. And that's what I told the board when they asked me if I'd be interested. Like, are you guys aware of all the things I don't know? Like Excel spreadsheets, for instance. I hear those are big in CEO circles. So that was that was super cool to walk through that process with everybody. And you definitely do hear about your faults from a board of people.

Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Already you've heard about them? Yes. What are they? They've already told you your faults? we don't have enough time Spencer yeah yeah they're like so we know you're probably not going to be good at oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and you're going to need help with

and then eventually you kind of get around to the good stuff but we think you're going to be really good at and you should be really good at and and yeah so mostly balanced each other out but yeah that was that was that was great so I'm real excited and then of course will continue to work with all you fellows here, which is kind of having your cake and eat it too.

Yeah, we'll be your mouthpiece, dude. We need to come and tell people about something, come and tell them about it. Cal's, Cal's report. Exactly. You'll get to sit in this chair next time. Oh, Cal will get to move up to the important chair. Wow. Yeah, because Cal always sits in that.

That's going to be a hard transition for you folks. You'll be over in the important chair. I don't know why he's there right now. It's the open one when I came in. got a really good story he did shoot a big buck oh that's why he's in that chair yeah yeah um i got i got i got a

i got a three pack buck story i'm gonna tell too cows can talk about is bear and i'm gonna tell about my three pack buck story nice um blood trails if you guys been listening to the blood trails the podcast it's been doing great man a lot of people listen to blood trails and one thing we get into blood trails

um all the missing bodies And what's totally weird about it is Cren finds this article. Well, let me first. Blood Trails is a crime series. It's all outdoor, like murders, missing people, all the outdoor hunting and fishing twists. So it's like murder mysteries and other things, cold cases that involve outdoor characters, hunting trips, various things.

The first one we ever did was we did one on a guy that was found by his hunting party. partners dead shot in the back next to a turkey decoys we did one on a guy in Maine kills a buck clear tracks in the snow drags the buck out to a road there's tracks in the snow where a car pulled up like hey can we give you some help they can tell from tracks in the snow that the guy loaded the buck that the buck was loaded into a car the buck and the man never to be seen again there's all these twist of turns. There's a blood

trails about a guy guy in Wisconsin meeting his buddy to go hunting. His car weirdly turns up with the wheels gone near

one of his hunting spots but not where he was supposed to meet his buddy and not when body never found. So that's a series

you can go subscribe to and listen but then here's a crazy thing that Cryn sends me Like a news blip here. The Minnesota Department of Public Safety is asking hunters to be extra vigilant during the firearm opening. This is a news alert, right?

Not only looking for deer, but also for signs of missing people. Basically saying, hey, a bunch of people out in the woods running around weird places. Keep your eyes out for. Discarded clothing. in areas where it doesn't belong or bones that do not appear to be from animals. Like a little announcement they made. Do not touch any of the items. Take photographs if possible.

Save location on a GPS, drop a pin, call the cops. I bet I know where some bodies are disappeared to. just because I feel like everybody here probably has the same thought process when you come across certain spots where you're like yeah boy if I ever had to this would be it

yeah yeah when a body does turn up somewhere I usually think the opposite like that's the best you could do for hiding a body Norman Donald has a big bit about that is like the hastily the hastily dug grave yeah yeah that's

yeah it's a great one yeah he's got a bit about that where he's like If he was going to kill someone, he'd start out by digging a really deep hole. Yeah. A thoroughly dug grave. Because he said they always leave it as an afterthought. Yeah. We're combining humor, humor, we're putting in humor where it doesn't belong.

Some of missing people, but that's what comedians do. This genre of podcast is, like, quite popular now. And, you know, media is doing a tone to spin on it. And there are now multiple examples of podcasters helping solve some of these crimes. Sure. That were cold cases. So, like, listen to blood trails and maybe something, you know, will make sense for you. We're going to do some follow up because we've already had some interesting things come in.

It's just, just another way the hunting community helps the general public at large. Another service we do for all of you who don't. You know, here's one. Do you know that this year, Japan has had 10. 10 brown bear fatalities. Yeah. They've had a hundred. Japan has had 100 brown bear attacks, 10 fatalities.

Wow. Listen to this. I don't want to pull this up. I was pulling up a news bit about it. You trying to do it, Corey? Put that in your little thing or my bob there. They really, see, here's where a new, this is news gone bad. Play this clip.

Phil will probably say you can't because some stupid reason. Yeah, for sure. Mr. No-no. Did you call your lawyers yet? You know, I was reading the other day that actors aren't artists. Oh, okay. I'll take that. Oh.

Thanks that. Is that an opinion piece or hard news? It was in the comment section to a thing. And he raised some of the rights points. They don't write their own lines. They don't pick their own costumes. They don't do what they want to do. They got to do what the director says.

They're not artists. I thought about Phil. All right. Oh, my God. I don't even have a quippy retort to that, Steve. Because no one wrote it for him. That's right. Oh, that was good.

They'd have to write it for him and he had to rehearse it. Maybe you need to sit in a Dungeons and Dragons game with Phil to appreciate his art. Can he pull it up? That link just goes to Gmail. All right. Good deal. But you can Google it. But those brown bear attacks.

Son of a gun. Keep everybody out. Keep everybody entertaining for me. Brown bears, right? Like, we think about them in the American context, but they're spread all over. You don't have to go all that far out of Rome, Italy, to get attacked by a brown bear.

Yep. That's not a place people associate with brown bears. That the Dolomites? Oh, here we go. Here we go. Listen to this. This is... ...mptained by bears this year.

And the MTS-TIA reports the government is taking unusual steps to reduce the threat. Japan is grappling with the grizzly problem. That's what I wanted to include there. What a cheap shot. Clever. Whoever wrote that. Japan is grappling with a grizzly problem. That's bad.

But my God. Yeah. 100 attacks and 10, 10, like Japan, I'm no geographer. That is not a large island. What's the car? I don't know I haven't really listened Too many bears

A lot of bears A lot of people Urban interface Yeah one of them happened Inside a supermarket You think like Grizzlies So if you take Alaska in the lower 48

So if you take Alaska Wyoming Montana Idaho Grizzlies kill A couple people a year Max Yeah maybe 10

10 in Japan And 100 attacks That's wild Yep Yeah, and they just point to Japan has a hunting culture, it's shrinking, it's aging, I think overall Japan is still considered to be way too old. They're trying to reverse that trend, right? Like the population average is aging, and with that they're losing all sorts of cultural things, hunting being one of them. and one of the theories is that you have a disarmed aging population that doesn't interact with wildlife the way it historically has and the brown bears have figured it out and they're they're taking advantage and there's there's just areas that villages places rural communities on the outskirts that uh

have a way smaller population than they historically have. And so, you know, because of that, bears aren't having as much human interference, but they're interacting with, with human things. And, and that's where the, the conflict is occurring. When Steve asked you to fill time,

why did you start talking about Italy when you know everything there is to know about the Japan situation? Well, I, I just think that, it's a flex. dude. You need to, we have. He had a full clip back there. Because I had started writing this thing about like why people should care about, like,

are disappearing grasslands in America, Bureau of Land Management lands in general. And how unique the American pronghorn antelope is. And being fresh off this brown bear hunt, I'm like, you know, brown bears are amazing. And people think about brown bears all the time. And like, brown bears aren't. nearly as American. You could say not American, like... Yeah, they're circumpolar.

Right. You know? And here's the places that you can find them. And here's the places where they are like... I wouldn't consider them like crazy wild animals, right? And it's like, they're pretty damn close to the Vatican. Yeah. That doesn't seem to go hand in hand, you know?

That ain't American. One of the things they're blaming it on is that poor... corn harvest, which also happened in 2023. So the bears are winding up in places where humans are to steal their food instead. Hmm. It's good to have Spencer here, man. Yeah. A lot of guys come in this room, you know, they're all lazy. They don't look

anything up. Flying blind. Yeah. It's like this guy opens his mouth, he's got some gold, man. Oh, wow. Thank you. Cal's got all about Italy. That was cool. Just put artificial intelligence in the room. Sounds like they deployed their self-defense forces. to take care of this problem.

I don't know of any update beyond that, though. Well, they also have a pretty serious bear spray distribution program. Really? Yeah. And, uh, they're, the robot dog thing. There's all, they're, they're getting technology out there. And then they're, um, you can borrow cans of bear spray and return them and stuff. So there's, they're working on it.

It was so funny about bear spray culture. I've been noticing a lot around here. Bear spray culture. It's like a whole culture of bear spurs. Yeah. If people go, it's so funny, like, people go to a trailhead around here. Let's see you're going to go hike up the M Hill. Half people hike up the M Hill guy with can bear spray.

There's a lion up there. Well, I don't know, but hear me out. Hear me out. On our ring, like, our ring camera, there's a bear every two nights. Really? My neighbor has a bear every night. There's, I was walking on, the O'Nell's walking around, uh, down by the golf course of my kids.

bear shit everywhere golfers don't have bear spray when you go out to take your kids to school like when people walk out to take their kids to school and get in their car they don't have bear spray yeah there's certain bear spray activities yeah why is it that people

yeah that's right that's a good people bring it according to what they're doing it's an accessory not according to what the odds are like what the bare proximity convention of 1873 they're like hiking bear spray being around bears now the council of galson decreed this well i i told you way back in my construction crew days uh this guy that we worked with he'd put his family on speaker

phone when they would call because they would often end the call with now remember don't get off the pavement the bears don't they don't like the pavement every two nights what's that Every two night? I'm exaggerating. Okay. A lot. Well, when the choke cherries come in. Oh.

Mm-hmm. When the choke cherries come in. But my neighbor, who's right there, you should talk to him. I'm not exaggerated by my neighbor. It's like, call him and ask him. I'll call some bitch right now. Do they mess with garbage a lot? It just comes through eating choke cherries, messing with garbage.

The other day, his wife had to shoe it off in the middle of the day trying to get it out of there. Probably without bear spray. When we lived in Missoula, we, like our house and our neighbor's house used to be an old orchard. So there's all these apple trees and plum trees and everything. And, yeah, there's like two months of the year where there'd be bears in the trash every night or just out in the yard. And they just roam like the rattlesnake neighborhood sort of at will. But nobody's carrying bear spray. One came through somebody's house, actually.

They were like sitting on the back porch and a bear came. Do you remember that story? Just followed the dog through the house or something. Yeah, just like came in one door and came out the other door. You know what I learned about Missoula this year that I bet this room has a lot of input on? Is that the feral horses that live in town? Yeah, the Miller Creek. The videos of that are so crazy.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think the story there is like, Outfitter went bust and just cut his packstring loose. How long ago? I don't know. When I heard that they were like in town, I didn't think literally.

in town, like standing on sodded front lawn town, right? It used to be that area's like really grown in the past 10 years. But yeah, it's like used to be a more rural. That looks more threatening than a bear. Yeah. Yeah. I shouldn't

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First Light, FHF gear, Dave Smith decoys, Phelps, and the Meat Eater store. Whether you're chasing elk, setting decoys, or just gearing up for camp, this is the time to upgrade the kit that carries you through the season. Visit your favorite brand site to find your deal, and don't miss the Meat Eater Black Friday sale. Here's a Tennessee guy. Tennessee man um

has that runs into that problem where you know when you see giant bucks where you're not supposed to chase him you hear about this guy so he gets wind of a or he's probably seeing this giant buck running around giant bucks I mean pretty darn nice nice box now I'm blocked out of this damn thing oh you're looking at the I'm in the Tennessee and

yeah so there's this very distinctive buck with some drop tines and stuff like that and all sudden there he is and he's got it he's got pictures of it out well the prison guard the local prison guard says hey i know that buck he lives at the prison they go and check this guy's house out he's got three bucks he killed on the prison what's interesting about the news article in the tennesseean is it Instead of talking about how big any of them is, it gives you the combined score of all three bucks. Yeah.

Which. So then you have to do. 163 inches each. Yeah. So it's like it says he killed three bucks. Totaling. 491 inches. Which is 1605 inches each.

If you imagine like, first off, we'll talk about the story in a minute. But I just thought if you imagine like your average person reading the Tennessean. Yeah. Mm-hmm. and you tell them he killed three bucks totaling tell me again

493 4991 inches what is the level of like oh yeah you know like the reader what is their level of hmm well or the editor was just like this graph is too long let's just add them all up

yeah i just kind of get lost and all the numbers like when you're talking about how big all the deer are can't just add them up yeah so he killed a he kept quote Oh no no This is a quote From the actual Lauderdale County

General Sessions Judge Judge Lovelace Mm Ooh Like that name He said Quote

The 3 bucks had a Combined Gross score Not net Quote The 3 bucks had a combined gross score

of 491 and 5 eighths inches this just sounds right for a uh a screen play yeah the scheme the scheme to break into the prison to hunt the big bucks yeah 53 year old man god man i could totally relate to that guy i just because in two years i could picture hunting to the prison i just want it's like a heist where it wasn't supposed to be i have to break i know i shouldn't do this but for those in the room Listeners block your ears I just watched Corey Calkins

Look this place up and drop Not just a pin But a white tail buck pin On the correctional Facility It was more for you to help me out with the next What does the perimeter look like It looks good

It looks very For those of those of you who fancy yourselves These skaters Yeah I'm gonna make a movie It's called Oceans One Dude It's just one dude Trying to kill bucks off the prison

It's a beautiful piece of ground. It's an amazing, he's got some amazing bucks. The other thing I appreciate about the article is it's trying to like, so the article says, uh, um, where's this thing? Is Corey thinking one day if I ever go to Tennessee or one day if ever get thrown in prison in Tennessee. Tennessee Wildlife Resource Agency Lieutenant Tim Ward.

Tennessee Wildlife Resource Agency, Lieutenant Tim Ward heard reports in January that a 15 point double drop time, then the article includes a very helpful parenthetical, meaning some of the antlers point down was shot in Lauderdale County. Lieutenant Ward was familiar with this deer, as it had been spotted frequently around the West Tennessee State Penitentiary, where hunting is prohibited. Now, if you had to go to jail, let's say you're a big hunter, they throw you in the Who Scout, that's worse than being in jail is you look out your little barred window

and that's son of a bitch is walking by you pattern him out the window also with that description when you hang a buck up on your gambrels are they all drop tines look at all the drop tines on that look at the drop tines on that buck

right there holding their room yeah it looks like it's a chain link fence around perimeter. So yeah, I'm sure some inmates were watching those deer. I mean, I do think we should offer the disclaimer that we're all well aware that these deer were likely outside of the perimeter and simply... You'll think they're in the yard. Yeah, certainly. It's much more fun to entertain that scenario, but I just don't think, I don't want to get a bunch of messages on, on Instagram saying, you idiot. Yeah. No, I understand. Yeah. You know, like the part of the prison where the

bad guys kind of whisper and stuff about like, you know, further crime they're going to do, you know. Yeah. I don't, in the movies. I don't think. That's where the buck was. No, he's not by the bar. He's not by the bench press and the basketball. No, he's not there, man. He's off, like, in the area where a prisoner gets away. Yeah, exactly.

Where he's going to hide. Where the searchlights shine into. No, I don't carry bear spray just because there's a black bear in the vicinity, but if I was hunting in there, I'd carry bears spray. Because you don't know when a guy's going to bust the who's cow. Yeah. And there you are. I will say this butts up against public land.

Right, exactly. But that double drop time. somebody right now that's just upset with you oh so upset it's so upset public knowledge here i mean he's got he's got a buck this like a beautiful typical that crazy drop tiner he's got the other one with some real junk on it some little kickers here and there they don't explain kickers in the article i i this is embarrassing to say but i definitely had a reaction of like the i mean it's just the greed man like this guy had this little illegal thing figured out that was producing very well or is he thinking prison that's public land is he thinking he's like here these deer first off he's thinking these deer first off he's thinking these people are supposed to be in jail instead of looking at giant bucks yeah take that right away do you know what I mean like like they're doing they committed and now they committed to

Why should they have the joy? Hainous crimes. And now they get to look at Giant Box, and I don't. Hmm. So that might be what he's thinking. I'm thinking of casting a Channing Tatum type for the lead in this film. Not a real artist. Yeah.

But someone with a sense of humor who can also be sort of a dashing action hero. Sure, that's a good call. I say greed because the guy, he wasn't like, I have a combined gross amount of antler of 491 for my secret hunting spot. I should call it quits now or I shouldn't tell anybody. He did it successfully enough that he was comfortable getting two of these deer shoulder mounted, which is like kind of a high profile thing that happens. If you go get a deer shoulder mounted, you're like, he's not a home tax.

Let folks know. Right. Yeah. One on the right is a deer that should be on a t-shirt. Mm. Mm-hmm. Clay did one about a guy that killed one on a military. base illegally. He claimed that when he saw, he just lost his mind.

Oh, as soon as he shot it, he said, I said to myself, I'll never get away with this. But he had temporary insanity. Wow. We interviewed a guy one time, game warden from Idaho,

former game, no, he was a game one at the time, Eric. You know when they put those robo deer out? Yeah. They don't use giants. You use mediums. He was saying if you push it to using giants, everyone shoots at it.

So they like, they want to get the real bad. I was thinking that was not going to be the case. They use mediums. Yeah. Because they're worried that it's like entrapment. Sure. Yeah. It's entrapment.

You're bait in the trap with too enticing of a bait. So you bait it with a medium. Wow. Makes sense. You know, I was working with Jordan Sillers to go back to blood trails because there's an Idaho judge who's now retired who several game wardens referred to as a hanging judge when it came to wildlife crime. Oh.

And so I'm trying to get that fellow track down so Jordan can talk to him because I'm like, if that's the case, I'm sure he's got some some fun story. that might fit for Jordan Sillers. That's interesting. I have a friend in law enforcement, and he has a hard, he generally has a hard time. He generally has a hard time with wildlife crimes that come to juries or wildlife crimes. Yeah. With judges where a lot of them are like, a what now, a deer?

Exactly. Yep. Like what? Yep. Exactly. We're hearing of talking about a deer? Yeah. Several conversations with prosecutors, county prosecutors.

who have known through friends and family and stuff who have eventually been like, hey, can you tell me why when a game warden brings a case into our office that they are so serious about it? Because you're not. Yeah, because it's like, well, by the, they've done a lot of work and they have to like cross this line of like, okay, this is. consuming a lot of resources and time it is worth it. And so they need it to be worth it to you

or else it's it's a giant waste of time and they're picking and choosing like what is going to make the biggest impact. Yeah. And and and and that's why and they know that all these prosecutors are like oh here's some truly gross human stuff. drugs or trafficking or you know you name it yeah and they're like and you're worried about a white tail deer right right and the guy just shot it after dark right yeah right yeah but so he could

illegally killed it 20 minutes earlier but but you're worried because he killed it twice yeah yeah but then at the same time that's the game warden's mandate yeah i think we should have like a version of a a military tribunal for wildlife violations And who would be on there? Just old game wardens? Yeah, like people who get it. That's a good point, man. Yeah.

Like change the Constitution and stuff. Yeah. You know, there's like a traffic court. Yeah. There's a couple other tweaks. Yeah. Tweaks people have been talking about in the Constitution. That might be a good one wild.

Like a little, what do you call when you add on to that sucker? Amendment. Well, yeah, I mean, a jury of your peers. For a hunter to be tried by a bunch of non-hunters, I feel like it's, I feel like it's more constitutional attorney. That's a great idea. Keeping with the spirit of your peers should be that, yeah, your peers. Well, they might be like, well, I'm a poacher. Oh, the other.

So my peers. The other important factor in wildlife crime is there's no intent, you know, like human crime. It's like, well, obviously they were intending this because of these previous actions and things. and then your witnesses in the woods don't they never end up taking the stand right yeah no it's true because then the question with wildlife crime too is like you know they always get into motive yeah what was the motive he wanted that big old buck yeah he wanted a really big buck that's about that yeah that's what it was yeah a couple backstraps uh uh Here's one that's like, you can spend an hour on this.

I'd actually like to spend an hour on this. So in California, this is a complicated story. Two former ranch properties were recently returned to the Tully River Indian tribe. The tribe's ancestral lands straddle the foothills of present-day Toulare County. Am I saying that right? to their county the land return was funded through the California Natural Resources

Agency the agency's tribal nature based solutions program so there was these ranches that were somehow under California control and they did a land back thing and granted the ranches to the tribe because the

ranches connect the tribal reservation lands to public lands to U.S. Forest Service lands. They promptly turn around and put a bunch of

wildlife enhancement efforts in place and start to Le Elkurd on their land. That's interesting. Very much so. I will admit I didn't read that one. But

You can spend There's two huge elements here The land back The land back movement That'd be like Cren's not here Well I think If Cren was here I'd be telling

She you know She's here doing her job And not hunting I would be telling her About how we should do something on land back Is it specifically land back Or was it a scenario Where there were

The state wanted to get rid of this stuff for all the reasons states do and there were several entities in the running or was this a specific agreement with the tribe that had lasted forever that's what I don't know so from San Francisco gate.com

SFGate.com Tuleauke are once again roaming to Sierra Nevada foothills southwest of Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks after a historic land return that Governor Gavin Newsome is calling the largest of its kind in the region's history.

The 17,030 acres made up of two former ranch properties were recently returned to the Tully River Indian tribe. Interesting. The land return was funded through the California Natural Resource Agency's Tribal Nature-Base Solutions Program, which partners with tribes across the state to place the stewardship of ancestral land back in indigenous. hands.

Yeah, that definitely fits. Heavy on that language. Mm-hmm. So that's a subject, and then two of the elk is a subject. Neither of those subjects we've really ever taken on on the show. Worker in here, doing her job.

I'd put that, she'd put that on her little checking notes for her, Phil. Yeah, I've already got to jot it down, right? And then I may put a sticky note where she should be sitting. right next to what you missed what you missed what you missed she said that you gave her a hall pass to el kunt today instead of coming to the podcast

what was that conversation like she texted me and basically it was like what time yesterday it was basically like are you a good person or a bad person I love it it was I mean I suppose I could come back if I really needed to for the record

I could be hunting right now do you follow me but I'm here what am I supposed to do yeah well when Corinne sent out this invite Cal's response was Corinne

that is the best day of the meel deer rut no it's not November 12 begged a different fight about it it is Cal's birthday so

me Randall and Corey will decide which day is better which day is better Steve sorry if he says November 12

what's your answer? 19 November 19 Is that because that's when you specifically will be out and about and you're just trying to hype yourself? I'm out and about when I think it's the best day Okay

Chicken egg situation Here's a good one Corey which day is better Thanksgiving Oh wow So the deer know it's a Thursday And nobody's out there especially in the afternoon

about, oh, 3.30? It's like Wisconsin done the Packers are playing, dude. It's a good day to be in the woods. You used to be able to to tilt trail cameras. That's my understanding. I'm not from, I don't know

what was the boaters. That's what Wisconsin guys say. Like, prior to trail cams, you could hunt your neighbor. You could drive your neighbor's property doing Packers games. That's perfect. You never get caught.

Now you can get caught. That's what I've been told by Wisconsinites. it's a hot tip it's a hot tip if you had a time machine it's a real hot tip so this guy was digging he was into the deep cuts he's back listening to episode 777

oh no what am I saying that's not a deep cut he's listening to a recent episode he says how we were talking about the South Carolina DNR's use of the term still hunts remember we talked about this Randall A guy wrote in, he moves to South Carolina, and he's reading the South Carolina regs,

and he sees that there's a thing in the South Carolina deer regs where there's a type, there's a distinction, a still hunt. He reads that, how most people in America would read it, a still hunt being very slowly, very quietly making your way through prime deer country, not sitting still. So it's a misnomer. but like few steps stop and listen few steps stop and listen that's called still honey why that's called still hunting i don't know it should be called slow walk hunting timber creeping timber creeping timber creeping but still hunting if you go get like old hunting books any kind of hunting

that is still hunting slow deliberate travel few steps stop and listen few steps stop and listen that's called still hunting if you're walking slightly faster and you're dug duran it's called a mooch um yes well if there are people stand hunting nearby you could spend a long time explaining

all these distinctions this guy moves in South Carolina and he's like you can only still hunt he's looking at his regs this is still hunting season he no joke calls the fishing game agency

to be like why can't you hunt why can't I sit in my tree stand and you're like no you idiot still hunting here means hunting not with dogs

A guy writes in, here's another one from South Carolina that kind of like is tricky. You cannot possess any deer with the head, sorry, you may not, okay, here's the rule, possessing any deer with the head detached while in transit from the point of kill is prohibited. Meaning, if you're in South Carolina and you kill one often in a swamp, he realized he is not allowed to part that deer out. You have to take the deer out hole. You can't transport a deer. And he says, he's wondering, what if I leave its head attached to like its front arm by a flap of hide? Yeah.

I don't. Isn't that a weird one? Yeah. Very weird. You cannot cut it. You cannot take a deer apart in the woods. And you would have to, because there are, you know, it's very random, but there's doze that get little antlers. And you're still doesn't say you need to leave evidence of sex, right?

Right. Like, in general, the head would be evidence of sex, but not always. That must be what they're referring to. Well, yeah, but in Montana, evidence of sex doesn't count the head. Back when it was the rule, they changed the rule recently. In Montana had to be, you had to leave evidence of sex attached. So you could remove the genitals. You could remove the, you could remove the mammaries, the Packer, the Volvo, whatever, could all be removed.

You could have the head still attached. You could still get a ticket. They were like, the head doesn't tell us enough. We need to see. I was one time. Evidence of sex defined as. I was issued a warning. Shortly after moving to Montana, I had a game warden, issued me a warning.

And it was really nice and gave me a note in case another game warden. tried to yell at me for the same thing anyways i'm like but the heads on it he's like man doesn't cut it yeah doesn't cut it you gotta leave the sexual organs attached he didn't care about the head the head could be gone they just want the sexual organs so in this case that's just a weird one to me so this guy's lived he's lived elsewhere then moved to south carolina so the way he normally goes about things he can't go about the other interesting thing here is like i know in Montana it defies it's like in or maybe not in Montana but in somewhere you know they say where you're going it's like from the point of kill until where it's processed or from point of kill

until you get home or whatever this is just while in transit from the point of kill so could you take it to your buddy's house down the road then cut the head off right and uh and then take it home right it's like no longer from the point of kill yeah like it just has a starting point for where the head can't be detached, but it doesn't have the end point at, what, when can you detach the head? Or drag it 50 yards. Right, exactly. It's not the point of kill anymore. I'm going to drag it over there, take a long break. Mm-hmm. It's attached to the head. Steve, a buddy of mine was also given a warning for not leaving evidence of sex on a, on a dough that he killed. From years ago. Yeah. And, uh, and he had a like a full-on dispute at this is at a hunter's check

station on the road because he had left the mammaries and cut off the teats right had fully skinned the deer but left the mammary but left the mammary not okay well that was the the game warden was was was in the wrong on this one oh and uh my buddy had a biology degree and was like he's like i'm not accepting a warning he's like he's like you're wrong it's got to be the first time that's ever Yeah, he's like, this is evidence of sex. He's like, a teat is a feature, mammary is a gland. It was like, let's, how much time do you have? Bring it on.

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want they got rid of evidence of sex I was attached yeah I was supportive of the evidence of sex move um I was not supportive of the wanton waste loosening well yeah you can leave a bear carcass in woods now. Can you really in Montana? The whole damn thing? When did they do that? You could just take the hide. No way. No. When did that happen? Well, forever, there was carcass and hide tags. Yeah. Now it's just one tag. You can ditch all the meat? Yeah, you don't have to take any sure. Well, you don't have to attach a tag to any meat. I think there's still want waste regulations on bears. Hold on. Look that up. Spencer, that's got, that'd be a Spencer special, right? I don't, I'm not going to give out wrong information.

And I really don't pay attention to that because I'm bringing it all out anyway. Right. Oh, 100%. When we were, we were working with Idaho fishing game to get their want waste laws updated. Mm-hmm. And I was talking, I was getting all the stakeholders together, right? So I was talking to like Idaho houndsmen and trappers and everybody. And 99% of the phone calls I made, people would be like, wait now, you don't have to take the meat.

Oh, really? Yeah. It was just like It seemed like Everybody who was really doing it Was taking the meat anyway Which was interesting And very good to hear

Yeah, if I was king of the world I'd make really strict Wanted Way sauce There's hunting units in Alaska Where you're obligated to bring out Like moose ribs And liver, right? Yeah, on the bone

I don't know about liver currently But they had some On the bone Yeah, they had somewhere like You couldn't In certain units You couldn't bone them But Alaska does extremes too

Like, they have certain units where you have to destroy the trophy value of a moose. You have to draw a special tag to keep the antlers. Yeah. If you're hunting it under normal, like, registration rules, you have to destroy. When we're hunting, it was super interesting, we're hunting this spring, hunting bears this spring. I found, first time of my life, I found a moose, I found a skull plate that is solid in half. Well, you know, you got a saw, they show you where you got to cut through the, you got to cut through the, the paddle. oh and I found a sawed through just one portion I found the outer the outer extent

the outer portion of a sawed through half of paddle could you then take that I didn't even know that's a great question I did not that's a great question but I didn't even know I was in one of those units I'm like oh my god never even seen one of these but here's where a guy killed one doing a registration hunt and had to destroy the trophy valley of the moose and there was sawed in half that's amazing yeah it was wow and a pain in the butt I was cutting Um, I made beautiful, one of the things that really excites me about antelope, right, is like, they're just so easy to deal with. And so I bring, bring everything, everything sized animal.

Um, and I was sawn through the spine and making, uh, like, you know, like actual bone end state cuts made these gorgeous little porter houses this year and super cool. What, I don't know what that is. I know that it's like a good thing to order, but I don't know what, like what the hell is a porterhouse. Porter House is the portion where the loin and the tenderloin are, you know, the loins on top, tender loins underneath. That's a porterhouse? Yep.

Yep. So you have one chunk, one half that's loin. No, I just, I just knew that at Outback Steakhouse, they used to call the Porter House the Melbourne, and it was the biggest stick you could get. Dude, that would have been a great trivia question for your ass, man. I don't think so. I don't think they call it the Melbourne. Well, do we need to go through the ones that are bad?

Anyhow, you made Porterhouse. I never do that's what a porterhouse is. And just cutting through, I mean, a dinky little antelope is like, that was a lot of work with a handsaw. Uh-huh. Yeah. And then, man, antlers are hard. And cutting through a moose antler would be a deterrent for me. Anna, the butcher was bragging out to me two days ago.

No. When's she bragging out to me? She was bragging out to me two days ago about how fun her bandsaw is. That's the word she used for it. Oh, my God. She says it's a lot of fun. It's a dream. It's a fun to have a band saw.

It's a dream. Yeah. Way back when, uh, when I was running around with my old outfitter, uh, we would in the middle of the day, go down and cut beef in Stevensville at a buddy's butcher shop. Mm-hmm. And you'd always end the day by going, now you know a job you don't want to do. Um, but yeah, running steaks through that band saw is, and you get all that meat butter flying out. It's great.

Corey, how's Googling. your face is conflicting things. No, it wouldn't be conflicting not if you're looking in the reg. Yeah, well that's what I'm trying to look up because I knew it was pretty recent. The deer and elk rags like I know there's no longer anything that mentions rib meat but you still, what about neck and shanks?

No. My understanding is no ribs, no neck, no shanks. It's uh, four quarters tenderloin and backstrap I believe. Wow. They say tenderloin in there? I believe so. That's a funny one. You don't call them tendies. Be like. You got to take that. Well, I mean, just, I have been around some people who's interpretation of a front quarter. Yes, the quarter is like, oh, you're leaving, you're basically just taking the bones out, some fatty bones, some meaty fatty bones.

I don't understand you mean. Because they're cutting. Oh, they're cutting so tight. Oh, they don't take it down to the rib. No, no, it's just, it's a waste. I mean, it's pure ways. It's hard to be a game warden. This is the letter of the law and that's all I care about.

And I'm like, that's ridiculous. Game warden's got to know everything about everything. And like, not just at wildlife crime, but like, how it goes if you pull over someone for DUI. Yeah. They've got to be regular cops on top of it. Yeah. It'd be tough stuff. And then, and then, you know, someone asks them like, what's that bird over there?

It's expected they know that as well. It's a huge skill set, man. I got a lot of respect for that occupation. And also it's like, A lot of those guys kind of come at it because they got to love hunting and stuff. And then you make this commitment where you're just going to work all through hunting season. Yeah. And then go up to hunters and have people be rude to be disliked by hunters.

Yeah, be like dismissive and rude. You got to deal with that all the time. It's a tough job. I'm always pestering our game wardens. And some of them are foolish enough to give me their cell phone number. So I'm always calling and text them and stuff. And I was talking to one last week. and he's like, yeah, I confiscated my fifth animal of the season.

Hmm. And I didn't really pry, but he said most of those were all self-turn-ins. Mm. People who went, oh, my God. Shot a buck in the wrong unit. Oh, my God. Yeah. Didn't, you know, stuff like that.

So I've got, I've got some clarification here. The Montana annotated code defines for game animals excluding mountain lions. Yep. So including black bears, all of the four quarters above the hawk, including loin and backstrap, are considered suitable for food. Above the hawk. Okay. Then you got to do, you got to keep the shank. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Is it saying loin or backstrap? Including loin and backstrap. So they're calling the t-loin, the loin. Because the backstrap is the loin Yeah Yeah, I regress Apologies for saying that

I might have been wrong Maybe I was thinking mountain lion I didn't mean to interject so forcefully But I didn't watch I didn't watch you Yeah I didn't want you to catch me If you see something say something dude You know

But I like that no one knew the law Because it's just implied That everyone is gonna You know take out Why wouldn't you take all that mean? Oh man And like all those bird carcasses Too I'm always making stock

And it's not like it's I had a fella tell me, straight-faced, at the pheasants forever, quail forever, annual get-together, and you're at, which you assume is just full of bird hunters, tell me straight-faced about shooting sage grouse in Montana. And I was like, oh, my gosh, the thighs on sage grouse are something like the best meat ever.

And he's like, oh, we didn't take the legs. We didn't have enough room in the cooler. Oh, come on. You have a lunch pail? drink a beer i don't know how to continue this conversation i i i didn't meet this person but a friend there is a war there's a trooper in alaska the game warders of state troopers like there's a there's a state there's a sort of a division of state troopers that handle wildlife but they're within the state troopers someone's telling me there's a there's a i know

i remember in the story i don't remember where they work but they were a female state trooper who had a policy on the moose wanton waste she would carry as explained to me gallon-sized ziplocks if she goes up to a moose carcass and she fills that gallon-sized zip lock with good meat off the parts that need to be retained that's her threshold interesting that's her personal threshold when she gets a gallon-sized bag of good meat you you screwed up. Wow. I like that.

Yeah. That fills up fast. Yeah. Especially on a moose. Yeah. If you were sloppy and you see you get that bag out on a moose, you're like, oh, oh. It's not going to take long.

Listen, don't, just don't waste your time. We got screwed up. Saskatchewan, a Canadian wrote in. They kind of chastises. Oh. Since you have been targeting Canadian users with your on-X I figured perhaps you'd be interested

to learn something about the challenges we have here. Fair. High and mighty sitting way up north on the Rockies fair.

Looking down on us. I want to read this letter, but I want to read this letter as a way that's not going to deliver to her what she wants. I'm sorry,

does Saskatchewan now have on X? No. No. I would think they do. I thought they were saying you target them with your honor.

No, she's saying that that if you're in Canada, you get delivered. I don't know, I don't know. Somehow, I don't know. She's getting advertised, but she just wants some Canadian coverage, that's all.

Okay. But she has the wrong idea about what goes on down here. She's writing in about this. In Saskatchewan, they have a fledgling elk herd and was, they don't have a well-established, widespread elk herd and with Saskatchewan. It's bull only. There are some agricultural producers who are kind of pissed at the elk. So they're opening up a cow season, a seven-day cow season. Since they don't do draws, it just becomes a general seven-day cow season in some of these areas.

She is saying this has nothing to do with health of the elk herd, carrying capacity of the landscape, distribution of elk. This is simply a small number of landowners being mad about elk grazing on their property. And she goes on to say, we often look down enviously at how wildlife is managed in the USA. And I just want to say, Catlin, buddy. The city on the hill we are not. You did not, Canada did not invent. Depredation. Did not, yeah, Canada did not invent the overpopulated as defined by a handful of agriculture.

Producers yeah that is a I would have said boy I sure wish I was you know or not I don't wish that I sure like it that Canadians don't do that but sounds that we both have developed the same habits on X announced in October 24 that they are now available in Canada and they show all government lands they should also show private lands but not private land ownership but good for Canadians I was always under the impression they didn't have on X up there they caught up with us That's all you got? Like, good for Canadian? I'm happy for that. My hunting life would be so different without on X. And I can't, you know, fathom not having on X until a year ago. Yeah. It'd be way different.

It would be different. You want to know how different? Can I tell you a little something? This happened to be last night. You're going to think I'm making this up. On my bookshelves in my office at home, I still have all my DeLorm gazetteers. Yeah. I mean.

I had my DeLorm Gazetteer collection was as wide as this laptop. Yeah. I pulled out my old, old, for nostalgic purposes, I pulled out my old, old Montana one from like the late 90s. I pulled that out because I used to like mark my, I used to drop my pins, so to speak, by like drawing on that gazetteer. I pulled that out to put in my like key like with my dad's war records and stuff like that

and took those and put them in a trash can and it felt naughty yeah that does feel like but what are you going to do with them yeah you're not like I haven't touched one of those things I was like oh you can't do that

like what are you supposed to do is like storm oh yeah I don't think you recycle that burn and die that's what yeah I don't think you recycle those are full staples and glosses. Can it knock on your door? I don't think you recycle those. I think you can. It's got a glossy cover

and metal staples. Well, inside the, not every... Oh, do you have the fancy ones with the binder and... No. The Nat Geo ones that got? I don't... Well, whatever. I'll put it out... It's not so much where I put them exactly is that I got rid of them.

But then here's the thing. If you save them, you're going to die, and the first thing your kids are going to do is throw them away. That's the right way to look at that. I had an interesting phone call over the weekend from a rancher. And, you know, a lot of folks are reaching out with the announcement of the incoming CEO stuff. And so I don't want to violate and you trust here, but I got a heads up and said, and there was a recent landowner meeting with Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks on, and you should be interested to know that there's a renewed push largely by, and he was in this meeting by folks who.

uh, you would call recreational ranch, uh, amenity ranchers, um, to increase the number of land owner of course, bull elk tags. Yeah. For the purposes of reducing, uh, the elk herds. And I was thinking about that, you know, and I was doing a lot of driving over the weekend and it kind of ties it ties into the Saskatchewan deal. But you know how, uh, cult leaders.

eventually get to the point where they're like I had a vision, a dream and I'm going to do everyone the favor of taking on the sexual burden so nobody else so that you other men don't need to worry about it.

Exactly. Nobody else has sex with the women except for me. I'll handle it. Much as I don't like to. So you don't, you no longer burden with what comes with that. And I'm like...

Because I alone can handle that. Heavy lies the crown. Exactly. And it's like, should that be the tactic here? It's like, thank you so much for taking on the burden of killing the bull elk. So the rest of us don't have to worry about that. Yeah. You're like, what I like to have is I like to have hundreds of elk move on to my place. I don't want anyone to hunt them because it might scare them away.

but it does cause a lot of damage so I would like to be able to kill a huge bowl he seems to be eating a lot mating all those cows whenever I look out there there he is eating I mean he's bigger he probably eats more I just want to get the big one that eats the most

his hoofs are bigger yeah he's like he trampling stuff yeah they will do clothes horns get tangled in barbed wire All right, Cala, tell us a little bit about your grizzly hunt. Boy, there is so much to tell. It was an amazing hunt. I had been out on the Alaskan Peninsula, you know, pretty darn close to where we were this time in 2011 as a packer.

And that was a wild experience. And we killed a giant bear that trip. We killed two out of three on that season. Roughly what year was that? 2011. Did you already say that? Yep. Oh, sorry. So, I mean, a long, long time ago now, right? Um, but it was an extremely memorable experience, uh, because all the things that people talk about on, on the peninsula, like crazy, severe weather and,

and, and very challenging and, and, uh, some, some suffering, mostly mental. Um, and, um, and we killed this giant brown bear and it is one of those things that I referenced because it's like we killed a what I would call like high school athlete like senior high school athlete type of it's mature but it's just getting started yeah grizzly bear and then we killed the like old NFL pro going downhill fast grizzly bear trying to get one more contract and the skull

in comparison right is like oh species subspecies really like it is just a dinosaur thing and that was just very very impressive to me and then also the the physicality that it takes to move through that landscape fast

with the muskeg and the brush and and then carry out, you know, what is almost always a big, wet hide is hard, really hard. You know, in Duncan Gilchrist's book, All About Bears, which is a true classic, he mentioned some bears being so big. Have you ever seen this? Some bears being so big that they cut them at the waist and haul it out in two pieces. Yes. Wouldn't you feel weird doing that? Very weird.

Have you seen that? I've never seen it, but it's always talked about. I feel like we've seen Clay Newcomb maybe do that. Dude, I would feel very weird. Where? The hell is he that he needs to do that? I don't know. That sounded familiar to me that I've, if he's doing it, he's just doing to be dramatic.

It's a, it's like when he shoots a squirrel off his horse. It's like them shooting a squirrel off his horse. It shouldn't be a big deal. Because attacks adermis is going to be sowing that thing up no matter what you do with it. But at the same time, it's a really. big deal i've thought of if i needed to do it i would have it would just feel very like really yeah cut it in half yeah yeah and the conditions up there like there it's there's always moisture even on bluebird days and the bluebird days may not even come during that season hunting big

country isn't for the faint of heart you got steep ground long distances and miles of crown land that aren't always easy to navigate that's why onex hunt just got a serious upgrade for hunters in Canada. Now you can get nationwide coverage for less than the cost of a box of shells with major updates to crown land layers and new parcel boundaries where available. Scout access boundaries and terrain with confidence before you even lace up your boots. Whether you're chasing elk in the mountains, spotting mule deer in the coolies, or looking for big woods white tails, on X gives you the tools to plan smarter and hunt harder. You'll still get fully functional offline maps, precise weather conditions, real-time GPS tracking, and customizable markups to share

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and don't miss the Meat Eater Black Friday Sale. What's one of those hides way? God, what was the kind of going estimate is like you're going to be in like with the skull and the hide and you know it's still got fat on and stuff because you're not fleshing it at the scene of the yeah paws intact yeah that it's going to be somewhere in that 150 pound good god man yeah and then through all that brush and everything yeah and then it can it can definitely go heavier huh um hence the cut in half yeah um so that was in mind i it's a very expensive trip so I was like well

one day I'll get back here but I never thought I'd get back there to actually hunt um you know I figured I don't want to go be a packer again or guide or something and and so uh yeah we we got to do this trip which was crazy huge opportunity once a lifetime trip and I was very like I just really wanted to maximize it

and the the two guides we had two guides instead of a guide and a packer the um because it's a new area for for this outfit and um they wanted to get people more experience on the ground so we have had two guides and and you know we just kind of had a talk of like hey i know um oftentimes people aren't like physically or mentally prepared for what this trip can be like trust trust me like my crew like we're ready to go we can suffer we can suffer we got the mindset to be here and if we got to jog across

muskeg and swamp and through brush and stuff to get it done we can do it and um you know it's kind of like you build up that trust with your brand new friends for the week right is a big part of the guiding game and um and I really wanted I was like I want a respectable bear

with my bow first and foremost um and if I got to get one with a rifle, I want that big giant bear, if they're around. Yeah. And, and we got in there two days early, which, um, they really encourage, right? Because the travel, you never know when a travel day, you're actually going to be able to fly. Yeah, like, it's two days earlier or potentially a week late.

Exactly. Because the storm comes in. Yep. And the, the spots out there, like, it's, it's pretty rare to have, like, an area unless you're right on the beach at low tide where you can get a bigger plane in so it's all super cub which you know they're just limited in what they can carry and and wind and conditions and stuff like that so um everything was awesome we came in on a beautiful bluebird day it uh i'm making the story way longer we got you got to see all the weather and and suffer for a few days and

and saw some big giant bears. I think three, ultimately. One was in that, like, that, like, super big giant bear category, and then two were in, like, the big giant bear category. One was the outgoing NFL guy. Exactly. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah. And we, I mean, we got to see him at, that spotted him opening morning of the hunt. So the third day that we're there. um it's just barely getting like i look across one of the rivers and here's this bear like curled up in a bed but look in our direction and you just see like the big dish face kind of lying main from that profile shot or not profile head on shot um and i was like well look at that bear and everybody got real excited it was like well we got to make a decision quick, you know, and then ultimately went in there, the bear had gone into the brush already. Seeing them is one thing. Catching up with them is another thing. Like, you can't really catch up to a

bear that's on a destination type walk. Yeah, and you're on coastal plain. You're like, like river estuaries coming out through Willow flats and Alder Flats. Yep. Yeah. And the stuff that you think is like, looks like a hayfield is a marsh. Yeah, the kind of place where you're flying over, be like, I'm gonna walk over there, I'm gonna walk over there, I'm gonna walk over there. You're like, man, you go walking anywhere. Yeah. You're not walking anywhere. Yeah. And I had told you this, but like, one of the most fun things is it's ultra brushy for the bears too. So they're constantly standing up on their hind feet and looking around. And I'm like, prairie dogs and brown bears. I'm like, who would have thought? Who would have thought the similarities? Because they're just constantly being like, well, I better get a better look. And so it's just like dead flat, you know, is what the eye relief says. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, he's standing there. Yeah, a bear is standing there.

And then it drops on all fours and it's just totally gone. Ceases to exist. Yeah. And they're following all these little creeks, side channels that have salmon still spawning up in them. So permanent snow fields behind a specific ocean out in front of us. Like, I mean, it's amazing. It's amazing. Ducks everywhere?

Man, I was thinking about how the duck hunting was going here because there were so many mallards, greenheads, still out there on the peninsula. You know what the problem is, though? Pacific Flyway. They're eating salmon eggs. Yeah. I had no idea. Oh, dude, it's like eating a sea monster, man. But I was just like, boy, there's a lot of green, like full plumage mallards here.

Mm-hmm. Which means, like, the folks in the Pacific Flyway probably aren't shooting a bunch of mallards right now, was my thought. Are the salmon eggs, like, their diet or, like, a part of their diet up there? Up and that stuff, man, I'm not saying all, but even geese, too, they eat a lot of, up there, they eat a lot of invertebrates, and they eat a lot of washed out salmon eggs. So you'll get their crop will have salmon eggs in it. They just taste like a Morgantza. It's rugged. It's rugged.

I got a bite that grew up in Southeast Alaska, and he said, you know, they tried, tried it even. eventually just be he said you just don't eventually like you just didn't look at the ducks as like a game bird because you just couldn't get through them yeah and and i've had the same thing every time you eat one of those saltwater estuary in that area salmon stream ducks it's like when you go there in september and they're all hanging out the mouth of the stream yeah they're they're not there on accident huh i'm surprised that works its way out of their system by the time they get to us if it's like that pungent. Yeah, I think they burned through it quick.

I don't know. Any of ducks, you saw them. Yeah. Check. And there were wolves on the air strip when we flew in. Really? Which I immediately was like, well, we're not going to shoot a wolf this trip. I would have been, my, percentage wise, I'm like, if they weren't.

That was my opportunity. I couldn't take it. Yep. Yep. And we didn't see any wolves. We did a lot of wolf. Howling after we got the bear. But got one really legit, perfect stock in with the bow on a big sow.

And it was one of those things where you're like, oh, that's probably a sow. But it's a mature bear, no cubs. We got to watch her for miles. And eventually she came like right into the airstrip and decided to take a nap. is there such thing as WNFL no well you could say like a women's rugby player there you go yeah

good job yeah um serious athletes and they're like man that's not a bear I'd tell you to kill on day two or three I can't remember what it was but I was just like guys this is

as close to a bird in the hand situation and and I got I have a bow. Like, I want to, we got to go try. And so that just worked out magically. That sow, because it's like the myth of the dry sow,

you never know if they are, but this looked like an old bear. Yeah. And she had no cubs. So math is kind of like, she's too old to just be a bad mom, probably. Yeah.

And lose the cubs. And it's not like kicking cubs out. season type of thing. So anyway, pretty sure it was a dry sal. And very sure it was an older bear. And then when we got down there, got off the glass and knob, she started working her way towards us into the wind. And we, and that was one of the funny things is like the wind was absolutely dead wrong from the glass and knob. But we had put ribbons out on the landing strip so you could see, so the pilots could see. Yeah. The wind direction and people on the ground could call wind for the guys flying the super cubs so you'd glass

down at the ribbons and you're like well it's doing that down there which was awesome yeah um but man yeah we got on the ground and i'm i'm looking through this clump of willow out in this like nice kind of hummock of of pretty hard tundra and i'm like oh she's coming right right to us and part of me thinks that she caught a whiff of us and was kind of curious because she like, you know, you were like, well, they didn't read the script. This one, like, read the script and was like, oh, I'm supposed to

arbitrarily pick this bush where three dudes are hiding and go walk past it. And I'm like, oh, holy, and they walk so fast. It's deceiving, right? I'm like, oh, my God, this is really happening. So I range something, I jam my binoculars back and my chest back. I kind of look over my shoulder and I look and this bear's, I'm like, she's going to walk at 20 yards, 25 at the furthest, perfectly broadside. And about the time I think that she just stands straight up and looks over the top of the bush at us and then drops down and spins and walks out of her. Oh, man. And I was, I had enough time to be like, well, I don't really want to shoot her in the chest because I want lungs just kind of playing the math game and I'm just like not comfortable with like where that heart is right there.

Yeah. And I, is that not a good shot for archery? I don't think it's a good shot. Like there's a lot of cavity there that I'm like. Standing up. I just feel like everything's on full display, man. I know. And you're going to have good blood because the hole's going to be in the bottom.

The hole's in the bottom. And they make a lot of 3D targets. They make all the 3D targets. Yeah, because that appeals to a certain human level. And here's something fun. I never hit those. That's what made that. So when I was at the Shields Archery University in South Dakota this year, we have that stupid target.

I didn't hit it. I didn't hit it where I was supposed to. So anyway. Wasn't what you were after. But it was enough of a, like, she stood up. And I looked at her and you could just see the scars on her face. And that was just an amazing thing. And she turns around and everybody's like, whoa, whoa, that was a hell of an experience.

And she gets out there to 60 yards and I'm like trying to like mouse squeal at her like. Trying to make kissy face. Yeah. And trying to like get her to stop. And she stops at 60 and like looks back at us and just does this full. mouth, sleepy ass, yon, tongue all the way out. And then turns and just cruises on.

I was like, well, it wasn't a heart thumping moment for her, obviously. So, but that was just super cool. She didn't think it was super cool to see you guys. Yeah. Like her pulse didn't quicken. She was just like sit, stood up, looked over the top. So that was cool. And then, yeah, we just got.

like pummeled with rain and wind and and we were underneath the tarp for like 13 hours and right at dark it like light lightens up a little bit so it's like misty rain instead of like full on nasty rain birds start blowing up in the side channel

where we had seen the big bear opening morning and that tells you one stern in there yeah exactly yep like so the seagulls start is it the bear's spook and the goals or the goals follow the bear? I think it's the goals are because at this point

you could tell from all the salmon carcasses they're not eating fish they're eating the brain and they're ripping out the oh so the birds hang out to get the the all the eggs that are flying around and yeah i got you when you're walking on those streams you know it just smells like ultra deaf rancid and there's eggs everywhere and there's there's that's a very hard smell to be around for days on yeah yeah they just go for the brain

and so early in the season when the fish start coming in they'll eat the whole fish and then as the land of plenty occurs they're like laying on the bank like snagging the ones that they want as they come by and they're they're searching out these zones we saw some amazing bear fishing activity but they're searching out these zones where it's like the easiest possible thing like the side channels where the fish are going through skinny water and And I've seen Black Bears duke it out over who gets to be in the sweet spot and a line form, a line form. We're like, you come out, they take their turn. The big mean one gets what it's after.

And the next guy runs out to try to get a minute in the spot. Yeah. And, you know, I was like, well, this isn't a good idea because we're going to be in a situation where we don't like get to judge. like it's it's going to be really quick if it happens it's it's getting dark it's foggy um i grabbed the rifle and we trucked out out there because you also just want to move and do something at the end of 13 hours in the rain underneath the tarp right yeah yeah yeah and everybody did so we go out there stand on this gravel bar it's like a 15 minute walk from camp and we're looking and immediately you're like yeah we're not going to be able to see anything like 200 yards it's like foggy and stuff in that side channel

and again like i want to like if i'm going to shoot it with a rifle i want to be a big ass bear and i'm like we kind of do a little wrap-up scene and i'm like all right this and then let's go go back to the shack and we take like five steps and then all this crashing and water splashing and here comes this cow moose charging across the river right in front of us stops at 40 yards she's huffing and puffing and blowing her eyeballs are crazy

and her head's on a swivel and she sees us and she's panicked and then trucks back across the river and the guy's right she's getting chased by a bear like ah yeah maybe and so I kind of recount that

to dirt meth Garrett Smith's around the camera I'm like hey this is what happened and now we're now we're really heading back and then splashing and crashing and and I look

and here comes this brown bear trucking across the river and so at this point I got around in the chamber and both guides are there too right like there's a 375 here and a 375 on both of my shoulders

Garrett's behind us the bear comes ripping across the river same dear deal crashing and water flying and it hits that spot where the cow moose was standing and at this point uh kyle on my right hand side is going it's your call it's your call it's your call and i'm like okay like this isn't like the bear i want with with a rifle um and i'm like i'm ready in case things get crazy serious um but i mean it is realistically it's plenty serious it's 40 yards like they can move fast

you know and that bear kind of like drops its shoulder and turns its head and Brando on my left goes you better shoot that freaking bear and you know I'm like gah and I shoot

and the bear dives into the brush Kyle shoots one more time um And now I'm like, okay, now we got a situation on our hands. Like, I know I thumped this bear. I'm pretty sure Kyle got another shot in there too, but it's in this like, now it's dark. And it is in this just dripping wet, alder hellhole.

Hellhole. But we heard a death moan right then too. But, I mean, it's 15, 20 yards type of distance. and your headlamp is very necessary, but at the same time, it's just like reflecting light back at you. Yeah. So you're kind of like doing this like thing.

Cause all that moisture out. Yeah. And you got your guns out, right? And it is like, it's foggy and crappy and the whole thing. And I'm like, okay, guys, let's like, got guns. It's dark. Got a bear in here. Like, what's our plan?

And we start easing into this thing and blood trailing. and I can tell Garrett Smith's having no fun at all. That made dirt nervous? He told me, he goes, Cal, I was scared. It's like, okay, good to know. And then, yeah, here's this bear piled up in there. Dead or dead. And dead dead, yeah, which was great.

but it was you know like it's in a just a total willow hole and then you're thinking about all the other bears around because we'd seen so many bears that it's not like this is the one well that day that we flew in was the first break in the weather in like the entire peninsula season including moose and you know I had friends up there too like Adam and Brenda Weatherby

were up there and they had a horrific time weather-wise for moose season, which just ended, and then brown bear season starts, and there's a little gap in between. And so this was like the first nice day, and we probably saw 30 bears. And I would say probably like 17-ish unique bears. Like there were a lot of cows and cubs running around that day, but like you very fast got the impression, like, oh my God, this is a high density bear situation. right? Because they're not spread out because the the salmon spawning activity happens like in a relatively

small area and the rivers and the creeks really aren't that long. Yeah. Right? It's like you can see the glacial snow situation up here and the Pacific's right here. It's like you can hike to the head, the very headwater in a hard day, you know, from the ocean. So it's a pretty concentrated situation. Super compressed. Yep. Yep.

So, um, you know, I, I really think safety wise, like, totally made the right call. Uh, you don't get that much time to decide and things can change right away. But, uh, as I said, I was like, there's no such thing as almost getting charged. So I don't want anybody saying, we almost got charged. It's like you almost, you do or you don't. that's that's all that's all there is to it unless you could interview the bear unless you can interview the bear and he was like oh i was coming after your house changed my mind at the last minute almost charged you yeah exactly yeah um but it's not like that big giant bear that was like the ultimate goal

or the or the bear with the bow but it is a totally badass animal um and and very very appreciative of the experience and everything, and, um, and I did some cooking in camp for those guys. And, um, you know, big stigma around those bears. The bit, the meat, I thought the meat was very good. The context really does matter, like meat in camp, when everybody is just coated in grizzly bear fat that smells like fish. And then the, the clean air outside of you and the human stank and the bear stank is decaying fish yeah and just general decay it's called a miasma kind of taints your taste buds sure everything tastes like a rotten fish yeah but yeah but i think the lick your lips i think the bear is good the bear is good um and the i cleaned up all that

meat when i got at home do you can you can you give can you give me a chunk of the yeah yeah yeah so I got a brisket and front shoulder and a hind quarter and then we left and a tongue and a tongue yeah I'll pass on that I just want the meat I just want to try the meat it's a different type of tongue too you can imagine it's like a it's like a big dog tongue yeah I'm like a border collie tongue I'm not posed to it but I just want yeah yeah um you do want to over ask take his one tongue no I just want a nice little I want like like a just I want to have the the fishy bear. A representative.

Yeah, I want to have the like fall fish bear, brown bear chunk of meat. Not, not an oddball cut. Right. Yeah. I don't want to like the liver. I will tell you that the difference between the, the spring bears, the, the two that I've been around for the hiding and fleshing. Mm-hmm. Um, and this fall bear is like, it would have taken like some fortitude to be like, okay, I'm going to cut off some big chunks of meat off this spring bear.

and cook it and eat it because it's a totally different animal. Like what I saw on that spring hunt is like they're, they're emaciated that fat is not white. It's like yellow and kind of hard. And the smell is way, way more just generally rancid. It's like an ultra-concentrated rotten fish. And then the fresh net, like immediately like, you're looking at the fat, you're like, oh, that's beautiful.

Huh. You look at the meat, you're like, the meat is beautiful. Uh, and then you just kind of have like this different smell to deal with. Yeah. Um, I made, uh, I, you know, it's like that guard piece of meat, but I'm sure has a real name on the front shoulder that, you know, typically, I'd just throw in the grind pile. When I was cleaning that up back here, I just took that and sliced it real thin and made a stir fry. Mm-hmm.

And I thought it was like fantastic. Really? I did not put fish sauce in my stir fry as just kind of like, uh, you know, just a, a preemptive step, but I thought, yeah, fantastic. And I, I fed it to folks at the, at the BAJ office. And I will tell you, like, people are like, oh, that's great. And then some people were like, I would like the stir fry sauce recipe. Got it.

Not the grizzly bear recipe. Yeah. I got you. So yeah. Hell of a trip. Hell of a trip. Kind of jealous of that. You should be. You should be. I mean, but it is definitely just not, um, Jason Rarig was on that trip, right? So he doesn't do a lot of those types of adventures. And he and I are going to do a little recap podcast on that because I really want his two cents is, you know, it's just like not a recreational spot, right? Like even the Alaska natives and the. Alaskans they don't like go out there just to hang out

it's like a purpose driven destination yeah you know so it like it's a harsh environment hmm yeah yeah well thanks for the report yeah turned out longer than I thought it'd be but oh that's great yeah

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that carries you through the season. Visit your favorite brand site to find your deal, and don't miss the Meat Eater Black Friday sale. I was going to tell you guys about did I, did I, were we recording when I tease the Tony Peter?

some white-tailed deer thing? No. But you asked us to ask you about it. Oh, can you ask me? Yeah, what was the thing you said about, you were going to say earlier about Tony Peterson, but then didn't say? Said, ask me about John.

What's Tony good at? What's he bad? What does he not care about it? Well, no, I've hunted White Tails with Tony Peterson two times now. Okay. I hunted public ground in Oklahoma with Tony Peterson, and I hunted private ground in Nebraska with Tony Peterson.

Tony Peterson has an amazing ability to determine where a buck is going to step. Meaning, kind of what I picked up from him, the difference from when I was a kid, bohunt and white tails in Michigan before I moved away, you would, like, we would optimize growing up, you would optimize for like, where would I be to see a lot of deer activity? Because if I'm seeing a lot of deer activity, then it seems to me like there's a greater chance that one will come by, right? That dude sets up to have, with one objective in mind, it's where will you have a buck 20 yards away broadside? Nothing else matters. He will set you up where you can't see.

a patch of ground bigger than that muscox hide but he is like a buck will come and stand in front of that musk ox hide and they do and they do it's like he has got a phenomenal sense of like you know wind whatever how they're going to travel when they're going to travel where they're going to come from they're going to come from the right whatever just it's like it's like it's It's kind of uncanny. Just, and it's, it's like, it's myopic, you know. It's where, where will he be 20 yards away broadside? My elevator pitch for Tony, I, I've worked with dozens of, like, professional, really good white tail hunters.

I've interviewed hundreds of them from working at outdoor magazines and hosting wire to hunt, rut fresh. Tony is the best public land bow hunter I've ever met. I just, like, don't think there's many people better than him on the continent. he's like special what he can do when you know starting at e-scouting and then showing up there in person and just killing a buck you know very few people can do it like him yeah it's i kind of like i start to kind of see like i kind of get what he's looking at we're hunting my neighbor and my neighbor even said to me after he goes man um what do you like what what would we have done what do you think would have happened with what would we have done i said i don't know man we would

like a little hunted scrapes like whatever like whatever like oh there's a lot of tracks here yeah or probably we've been like yeah so here because you can see what's going on whatever it's just it's funny he just like doesn't care how about anything other than like where is the spot where the buck and then the other thing he's just dogmatic about is um he's got his North wind spots His south wind spots His east wind spots His west end spots

His southeast wind spots And there's And that That is Determinative Hmm Like there is no You there's no room in his mind

For like wishful thinking Like well You know The wind's not great But you know you get into that Little trap Like you know where you want You know where you want to be so bad.

Marginal wind. And then the wind's like kind of off, but some party's like, well, the wind's bad, but it's not so bad that it doesn't like make up for the good. It's just done. Yeah. You don't even talk about that spot. You don't talk about that spot unless the wind is absolutely perfect for that spot. You don't even look at it on a map. It's not an option.

Back when I was in my archery elk guiding days, I would have a talk with my guests, my clients, on setting up in spots. You don't want to set up in a spot where you can view nature. Yes. Because. But I kind of do. Because your goal is to kill nature. Like, you need to set up in a spot where you're going to kill nature, not view nature. That's the thing you have to, like, fight when you are, you know, deciding where to sit.

And I would curse him. I'd get up and be like, because he had gone and set stands. I'd get up there, but like, oh, my God, this is such a Tony Peterson spot. Like, you can't see a thing. Yeah. You can't see a thing. Mm-hmm. And you better be ready.

Yeah. Yeah. Because you're not going to see it going. That's, that's a thing. But then, lo and behold, there that son of bitches. Something those guys have in common is, like, they, they hunt a lot of spots that are top pin territory. We're like, you wouldn't, there's no scenario where you'd need to look at your second pin on the bow. Oh.

Yeah, he's not talking about sneaking one in at 40. It's like he wants deer in your lap. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're not, the spots you set up, yeah, you're not, you don't get up and like starts range finding different things. It's like, dude, you're like, if you want range find some stuff at the outer edge of your view, it's like 22 yards. Yeah. 22 yards.

23 yards. What, uh, what height? Low. No way. That kills me. Hmm. Yeah. His setups are low.

Interesting. And he could have the world's greatest tree 10 feet away, but it's not like, he, like a great where you'd be like watching. It's a viewing tree. Yeah, you'd be watching ducks out in the slew, you know, whatever. Like, if you were like 10 feet over that way, he doesn't care, dude. He doesn't care. What is Tony bad at? Because you had, you observed something.

Wildlife viewing. Oh, okay. Enjoying the experience. Yeah, he's not making a nature documentary. bad at wild life viewing or not bad at it just he likes birds and stuff but no he's not his setups aren't meant to be that it's a great place to hang out yeah but dude i like i i i after we went you know we got like a buck on day one we got a buck on day two we got a buck on day four that's great they're all 20 yard shots all 20 yard shots all 20 yard shots all broadside and

after that i was like i get it i get it i haven't seen yeah Yeah, because that's a pretty good success rate. Yeah. I haven't seen the deer you and your neighbor killed, but I saw the one Tony killed. Oh, he got a very good buck. Yeah. What were those deer like that you had? Eight points.

They went progressively smaller. No, my neighbor got a nice one. Um, um, you know, like a nice, like, wow. I'll show you a picture of mine. It's like a, like an eight, you know, a year wide, shorter timed eight. Very efficient. Kill three bucks in four days. Yeah.

And then, um, um, Does Tony entertain at all, like, on a trip like that? No. When you go, you know what I would have. I mean like entertain, like have to do stuff so everybody has fun. Appetizers before dinner. When you give him a classic Stephen Ronella, like, you know what I would have done? Oh, he's not interested.

He's like, you're not, you're so far below my level that, yeah. But I, I like defer, because I would, I just openly defer to him in that space. If we're doing something like, you know, if we're doing other kinds of things, I wouldn't, you know, like there's other outdoor activities where I might not care at all what he thinks. It'd be dismissive and hostile to, but no, I'm like, hey, what do you think? What do you think? Because I just, I appreciate his way of looking at things. So he was in the driver's seat. Yeah. He was in the driver's seat. He knew that I have a preference for trees over being on the ground. And I'd say if it's sixes, I like, to be in a tree and he that probably like factor didn't do his head a little bit yeah but um but it's so funny dude like the one i got came from the direction came from the direction he imagined it coming from on the trail he imagined it walking on uh i remember even saying like talking about at that tight when it's that tight like trying to get your bow back he's like oh

this time of year you're so distracted you know i see a comment and I'm like, I'm not going to draw until he's underneath me. I just catch him coming, like, from the right. You hear him or see him first? No, it was pretty windy. Didn't see, didn't hear him. Like, here he is. He's just, but he's like 10 steps away from being underneath me.

I remember, and I was just standing there ready. Sorry, seated ready, but I could shoot that way seated. And where did the deer stop? Well, I was like, it was so tight. I'm like, there's no way I'm going to get my bow back. He's going to stop when I draw. So I'm not going to draw until he's in my pocket. And he gets in my pocket and draw, and I draw, and somehow miraculously, he doesn't see me draw, which I couldn't believe.

So then I just made a little, but I was already, I was for a minute entertaining the idea. He's walking so like kind of slow with his nose of the ground. I was entertained for a minute, just shooting like that. But no, dude, it's like, it's like right where, right where. Yeah. Right on the edge of what I could see. No, it's cool. He's got like a, it's a cool skill set, man.

It's a cool skill set. All those years, like we would, when I was, you know, 12 year old, whatever, about, you know, hunting to be like, you'd set up, you know, they'd be like the field you always see the deer in. So you'd hunt a tree in the corner because the deer always walking around out in that field. And then you'd sit there and they'd not come out under you, but you got to watch them all night. Yeah. You know. And if you like ran a thing, like a math problem, be like, okay, I'm here in my tree. this is a you know a 30 acre field 30 acre alfalfa field i'm in my tree i can shoot a little 20-yard

circle around me um and i'm only just planning on one walking out in the field and meandering over my way and then you realize the deer in your area have a thing where they like trot to the middle of the alfalfa field because they're so tuned in the fact that like the edge sucks Like when you're on the edge Some kid shoots an arrow at you But if you run out in the middle Nothing bad ever happens Generations of deer know that

Yeah Mom's like no no no Don't hang out Especially that black cherry Especially the trees The big straight trees Yeah the big cherry tree That the people are always in

Just run out and feed all you want They can't reach you with their arrows My one Tree stand Whitetail experience was in Minnesota And it was the seeing deer That I hated

because I was like, well, I'm stuck in this stupid tree. The deer out there. Yeah, I always felt like you're doing something right if you're looking at him. Yeah. Well, Tony feels like you're doing something right when he's 20 yards away. Yeah, we were watching deer all night, just didn't get a shot. Yeah. You might as well have been another state.

You came close, huh? Felt close? Wasn't close. They just didn't want to cooperate. Wasn't close. Yeah, Tony's good at thinking about it, but then he also works really hard too. Oh, yeah. Like you don't, you don't get that success without both of those things.

Because it's a lot of work just to go hang a tree stand. Mm-hmm. And then if you're, you're hunting for every wind with three guys, how many stands did he have hung? 10? 10 trees prepped? He had a natural blind. He had maybe four pop-ups, five, six trees. Mm-hmm.

That's a lot of work. That's a ton of work, man. Yeah. It's ton of work. Listen, I was at his, it was basically, like, it was basically, we were handing, um, we were hanging out, you know, but it was basically the treatment you would, like, it exceeded the treatment you would get were you to hire an outfitter. Sure. What we brought to the table is my, my, my, it's my neighbor's families, my neighbor's family's farm.

Hmm. So he's like, they kind of didn't need you. Oh, I didn't bring anything to you. Oh, you weren't bring anything. No, you weren't entertaining. You didn't even me. They don't need me for anything. Oh, they didn't need me for anything. I was just there hanging out, having a good time. Yeah. It was impressive. he's cool he's cool it's cool to watch him hunt those white tails yeah if you want to think like tony hosts uh the wired to hunt foundations podcast and what i love about that is they're like 15 minute episodes uh so you can go and you can knock out a whole bunch of them and and uh you know see how a really good white tail public land bow hunter like him thinks what's funny too is once he gets it he ceases to care about the deer do you know what i'm saying he just saws off the skull plate he just throw it into a pile yeah like once he's got it it's like that he doesn't fetishize the antlers

do I mean they're just like they just become like a another one for the pile he likes the hunt dude you know I mean he likes the hunt yeah he's not like oh these are going to go on a special corner you know on the old mantel piece what are you going to do with those put them in my pile antlers yeah what I like about Tony if we're all doing this

he's just a very funny man just a very sarcastic funny man he's very interested in outer space yeah oh yeah we're talking about that when we went fishing. Not in a weird way. Yeah, he wears that tinfoil hat from time to time. No, no, no, no. You think so? Oh, yeah. What I was warned about him originally, Mark Canyon warned me about him in

outer space. Yeah. I thought it was going to be like, like... Aliens. Like a bunch of hoodoo jibber. But it was, he bombarded me with like legit outer space stuff. Like, how far away is this? How fast is that? How dark that is? You know, we went fishing. Not like, not like

getting attacked by aliens. A lot of that too. Yeah, we went fishing and I just finished reading the right stuff. And for whatever reason, space came up. And he was like, yeah, I'm big on that. Yeah. I was like, what do you mean? He's a big space guy.

And it was like I was hitting, it was like, uh, infielding practice where I was hitting grounders with what I knew and he was just grabbing it and throwing me out at first. Me and him shared my camper. He was all around the, um, One of my kids' beds in a camper. A good guest, I bet. He brought a couple, two, three space books with him. Oh, yeah.

He had his space books laid out. Not deer books. Fascinating. Fascinating character. The first thing he did when he laid down was put those stick on stars and planets. A little mobile. I'm going to get him a sign and says there's no box in space. Oh, there you go.

There you go. Might turn him off on the whole subject. I don't know. He's going to find space, uh, pinch points in space. Yeah. it is the opposite of everything that you've described so far what is just the interest in the infinite yeah and as a deer hunter he's oh it's a great point yeah maybe his setups all have a great view of the sky yeah and i failed to notice celestial but no i would not i'm reviewing in

my head you can't see the sky either huh you just see a hole in front of you yeah maybe the good readings the reading the reading light is good i was i was we're so pro white tail right now. I was just thinking I was over at a friend's house, went downstairs to use the bathroom. Never been there before. Went downstairs to use the bathroom. Um, and there's like many respectable white tails on the wall.

Mm-hmm. And I came back up and I'm like, oh my God, there's a lot of, a lot of white tail down there. And he just goes, yeah, says something about Montana. I can't kill a big mule deer anymore. So you just end up with whitetail. Sure. And I was like, huh, a lot of people would be real excited about having those bucks on the wall. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And he's got a basement. Yeah. Like, I don't know people in Montana with basements. That's interesting. Yeah. Well, I grew up in a place where everyone had a basement.

Uh-huh. And then I came out here. And when we moved here before we bought our house, we had looked at like 20 of them when we came out, not a single one had a basement. Interesting. I was blown away. It was because of, well, tornadoes is one. Water table.

the ground is extra rocky in the valley here so that complicates it a little bit and then I think the earthquakes also they don't want to put a basement in with all of our seismic activity we have a full footprint crawl space six feet no five and a half feet deep so you can't stand up in it and I realize that after a while like I guess if you went whatever you'd do normally yeah nine feet you'd be standing in two feet of water yeah so it's like that deep for a reason I'm like what kind of lazy ass we're just scraped out the extra space so I can stand up down here when I'm sorting through my wife's Christmas decorations I should have consulted you

well I think I know why all right thanks guys and else anybody needs to add thanks Phil Spencer got a big old buck Thanks Phil he doesn't want to talk about it Where is that buck

I see it? He's getting taxidermy You're getting them taxedermin? No, just a euro amount. Nice. Why did you say taxidermine? Because I took it to a taxidermist to do that. Really?

What, uh, what did you think of that camper? You brought it to a tax nervous? Well, our girl Brooklyn, who works here, who, like, gives us all a nice discount. Yeah, of course I'd take it to her. Oh, that's who you had to do it. Yes. Oh, that's what I was going to complain about. That I didn't take it to Brooklyn?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. She's quick and cheap. Yeah. I've been sending her some business, too. Yeah. She has a nice job. Yeah.

very clean, like evenly colored skulls. I took a bunch of stuff that's just been sitting around tour this year, but I did not take the brown bear tour. You can get a beetled. Because I want to get a beetle. That's what I did. My boy's black bear. My boy's first black bear, I got a beetle for him.

So it's real nasal cavities and real sound, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, what did you think of that camper? Loved it. Oh, good. I think is enormous. It is.

Yeah, how to pull. Oh, we put stabilizer. bars on it with that big diesel truck. You don't even know what's back there. Oh, that's good. But it's spacious. It's nice. Yeah, me and Tony shared it. He felt like he was in outer space. He had so much space. I bet. That's a

spaceship. All right. Thanks, Phil. Hit us with a line, Phil. Just let us go with the line. I thought we were done. I wanted you guys to hear Phil's British accent. A penny for a thawthing in it? No, it's not.

No, hit it how you like to do it, Phil. Isn't it? okay uh the last time i did that i was um admonished and then you came in here and said that our actors aren't real artists and now you're asking me to uh as your court jester to start spitting off lines hit the boys with a crash at line god bless us everyone no that's a good one this comes out december 15th can you do something christmasy though is that is that not i mean that's as christmas as it gets isn't there like a merry christmas in there somewhere oh do like where he's trying to tell scrooge that he should go home early because it's Christmas.

Eve. Well, Scrooge asked if I'd like the whole day and then I say, well, if quite convenient, sir. And then he says, it's not convenient and it's not fair. That's screw. That's my Scrooge.

Okay. And then I say, well, it's Christmas day. So it's only once a year. And then he says, well, fine. You'll be you have to come in two hours early tomorrow. And then I say, yes, sir. Merry, oh, I mean, good evening. That's how the scene goes.

That gives you out here, man. That's great. here. That is art. Oh, thanks, Spencer. Phil Allen. Yeah, I take it back. That was art. I had a guy from Ireland right in and congratulate me on the

the BHA position. And he said, are we still going? He said, I'm chuffed. I'm still switching cameras. Spencer's done. Well, I'm following Randall's I didn't realize we were still going earlier. Well, Cal took his off and he's still talking. I just thought that was funny. Yeah. Chuffed. And I was like, well, thank you. I'll have to look up,

look up what that is. Chuffed. It just means like you're excited. You're happy. You chuffed? I'm going to start using that. That's like when I learned Latvians go blouch. When a gun goes off instead of bang,

I'm going to start doing chuff. Yeah, awfully close to chafed, though. Exactly. Which is the opposite of fun. Which is kind of fun. I want to hear about Spencer's buck. I still can't believe. I can't understand if we're recording this podcast or not.

No, it's over. It's over. Spencer, I'd like to see your buck. Well, we have radio live this week. Steve is there, me. Randall's there. We'll talk about it then. Sounds good.

How about that? Yeah. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Phil. Great. Fathering. list don't shop around just go directly to the source lenovo dot com you'll find exclusive deals on the gaming PCs you want like the lenovo legion tower five gen 10 gaming desktop and lenovo lock

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