The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 807: Dew Claws, Buck Nuts, and Christmas Trees | MeatEater Radio Live!

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

Hosts Spencer Neuharth, Ryan Callaghan, and Cory Calkins interview Matt Ross of the National Deer Association about what dew claws tell us about deer, throw a Hot Tip Off, play a round of Meat Poll, chat Christmas trees with Cornell University's Trent Preszler, and take a look at some regrettable tattoos. Watch the live stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel. Subscribe to The MeatEater Podcast Network MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Welcome to Me Deeder Radio live. It's 11 a.m. Mountain Time. That's 9 a.m. for our friends in North Pole, Alaska, on Thursday, December 18. And we're live from Me, Deeter, H.Q. in Bozeman. I'm your host, Spencer, joined today by Corey and Cal. On today's show, we'll interview dear biologist Matt Ross about identifying buck tracks. Then we have a hot tip off about European mounts, followed by a game of meat pole, where we'll find out how much Corey and Cal know about their fellow outdoorsmen.

After that, we'll talk to Trent Pressler about the history of Christmas trees. And finally, we'll look at some regrettable outdoor tattoos. Corey and Cal, we are a week away from Christmas. I'm sure you have some big fancy meal plans already in the works. What are we going to be eating Christmas Day, Cal? I have, well, it's probably not going to be Christmas Day. Okay. But Christmas Eve, I have like a nice standing antelope rib roast.

Okay. That I'd cut special for the occasion. How many folks are you feeding with that? You know, it's an antelope, so it'll be like an appetizer type of deal, you know. Sure. But, yeah, it would be like. like, I think it's a six rib rack, and then, so I have two of those, and then I kind of bind them together and make a circle.

Okay. And, um, you know, I, I struggle with making things fancy and too fancy. Mm. Um, because I don't, I don't want it to be like, some super fancy thing. Okay. More approachable. If you're leaving ribs in it, then already like elevates it. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It'll be good. I'm not going to make it like little hats on there or anything like that. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. How are you going to make it? Just medium rare, man.

Like, yeah, put it on the pellet grill. Figures itself out. Yeah, you just don't, do not overcook that stuff. And it looks real pretty. Corey, what are we serving at the Colkins household this Christmas? Man, we typically do a fondue Christmas night. Okay. So probably some wild game sausages.

Do you do cheese or oil? Cheese. Cheese. Yeah, go to Costco, get some fancy cheeses. And then just do all the sides, probably do some wild game sausage, some. some fruits and bread. Probably do some little steak bites in there, at least for myself. Okay.

But probably start the day with some black bear biscuits and gravy. I'm thinking a little white gravy in the morning. Just thinking maybe just two meals on Christmas, one in the morning. What with your son there, how to, what, what time does Christmas kick off? He gets pretty antsy and wakes up a little extra early that morning. Good. He earned it. Big time.

Is he naughty or nice this year? So he was, keep in mind, I did an impartial audit because when I was at the on X event, I spoke with your next door neighbor. Oh, oh, I heard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He was definitely on the fence this year, but we, we jumped in and did the elf on the shelf, which has helped us out a lot because elf, of course, moves around throughout

the house every morning, and he's in a new spot. and he's going to report to Santa, like, double time. Santa's always listening, but the elf on the shelf, like, really digs deep and, like, 007 style reports back to Santa. So ever since Elf on the shelf, he's kind of picked it up. So we'll see. He's got a week to go. I hope he makes it on the nice list.

I got a big bag of Kingsford charcoal if things stay the same. But I think he'll make it. And he just introduced that big brother culture early on. Mm-hmm. Yep. A little eye in the sky. Uh-huh. Corey is wearing a nice black eye today

that Marshall did play a role in He was there We're not going to address that today Besides right now you can get the story Of Corey's battle wound On next week's episode It's not that obvious Of the meat eater radio

A little bit Yeah I'm going to deep fry my first turkey This Christmas A hen that I killed in Idaho You boys have any advice Besides doing it frozen in the kitchen Yeah exactly

Inside wet. Did you brine up? I have not yet. It is, I just got it out of the freezer this morning. It's going to get into a brine. I think on Monday will be the plan. Cool.

I would, um, in your, your run of show, right? Which is always a nice thing to, just write out ahead of time. Totally.

Um, I would budget in 12 hours of, of, uh, air circulation in the refrigerator drying out post brine yeah i would second that make sure it's nice and dry yeah and you can like uh you know like load up i hate waste and paper towels but you can like load up the cavity with paper towels yeah and do a couple of swaps there um that'll help but like getting getting that skin getting everything like dry sure is a is a great that's Is it skin on, right?

You plug it on. I plucked the whole thing. It's a hen. It's probably like, I don't know, 12 or 13 pounds. I haven't weighed it yet. Um, but it should be good. So did you go all the way out to the wingtips? Oh yeah.

Yeah, that's, the whole ass bird. For presentation, it really does make a difference. Yep, it's a little nicer. It's not that hard. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Good for you. That's great.

Very excited, but I've got a five course meal plan. That's going to be the fifth and final course. It's going to be the, the climax of the whole meal. So a lot of pressure. Do you need a time? turkey fryer? I got one. Okay. I have one of those ready to go. Normally this time of year you can use just like your front porch as a refrigerator, but it's been so damn warm lately. Uh, because, you know, the, the fridge gets so full on Christmas. I don't think it's even cold enough outside to keep your

what, uh, are you doing like a soup course? We've got a soup course. I've got an antelope squash sausage, uh, that, that'll come right before the turkey. I think before that, um, I've got, uh, what is it? Some mac and cheese. Before that, it's some mar and cheese. Before that it's some roasted carrots. Before that, we've got a winter salad. Oh, nice. Courses. And dessert course, obviously. Well, if you count that six courses, I'm still trying to learn how to bake, so I'm going to whip up some cookies that morning.

That'll be the sixth and final course. Nice. Very excited. Yeah, very cool, man. Who are you putting this show on for? My wife, a couple friends, sister-in-law, so we got, I think six people in the house. Nice. Great. Very manageable. That's right.

We can do it. It'll be a team effort, though. All right. Establish that ahead of time, too. Let's get on with the show. Joining us on the line first is Matt Ross, the senior director of conservation for the National Deer Association. He's going to tell us about what's fact and what's fiction when it comes to identifying buck tracks. Matt, welcome to the show.

Hey, guys. Hey, man. I feel very underdressed, at least inappropriately dressed. You guys look great. Oh, we like that first light gear. there buddy well worn yeah you you were dressed like a deer biologist uh we are dressed like dummy podcast christmas uh fellas all right i want to start off talking about dew claws explain what they are and what purpose they serve do claws are their digits uh they're like extra digits uh you know

do claws are on deer anyway uh we're talking about deer are vestigial they're like a remnant digit a little bit up from the actual hoof But all mammals, where most mammals and birds and other animals actually have do claws. Think of your pets. If you got a dog, a cat, they have those little extra digits up the back from their pad, their normal pad. Even some bird species like raptors, owls, eagles, hawks, they have that extra claw. For most animals that actually have due claws, they don't really serve a purpose, except for raptors, of course, they're using them to catch. fish and tear fish and other other prey animals. But on deer itself, there are those extra

digits. They have a cratinus or like, you know, kind of a hoof material on them. And they're behind the actual hoof and a little bit, a little bit up from that. But they're vestigial. They're not used. Deer have a couple of remnant things on them. If you've ever killed a deer with upper canines, those are, you know, an evolutionary throwback. That's a do claws are they're part of the animal family that has an even numbered of toes uh you know all of the cervids of deer elk um and other species moose and uh instead of two hooves they used to have four now they only use two of them now most hunters would tell you that you can identify a buck track by the dew claw indentations is that true that is not true um both bucks and doos actually have

due clause so it's not sex specific so if you're saying just because due claws are present in the track it must be a buck that could be a buck but it's it's not a definitive thing they both sexes have them uh now another common bit of wisdom deer hunters will tell you is that buck hooves spread the furthest apart so if you see a track that is shaped like a heart where there's a lot of space between the pads then that's a buck is that true that is also probably not as reliable of a thing to use. Most deer might spread their hooves apart based on their weight. And so you could have a big female or a big male buck or doe that could spread their toes apart.

It also could be based on their gate and how quickly they're moving or the material that they're stepping down on. So if it's, you know, soft mud, their toes might spread apart. So generally the bigger. Mud, everybody's a buck. Yeah. Generally, the heavier the deer, the likelihood of those hooves spreading apart will happen, but just because it's doing it, I wouldn't say it's a reliable estimator. I've also heard it said that hooves can be like fingerprints where some deer will produce

unique tracks that you can identify them by. Is that true? Yeah, they could be true. I think the likelihood is low. I mean, most deer hooves look the same, so most tracks look the same. But, I mean, I've seen and killed deer that had unique characteristics in their hooves, never gone back to go look to see if I could find that track. And I've never used a track. Maybe you guys have to track a deer. But, you know, they mess up their hooves. They're material that grows constantly, but they can chip pieces off or parts of it might, if they're disease, like with epizuadic hemorrhagic disease or EHD, their hooves can crack. So that is true. Have you guys ever experienced that? I don't know that I've seen a unique track where I'm like, that is a weird walking buck. You guys?

I feel like I've read about it. Sure. But I've never, not firsthand. No. Corey, anything with elk deer? The buck I killed this year, actually. I knew he had a limp, at least from the landowner told me, like, look for a buck that's got a pretty obvious limp and old. And his hooves were extremely large and elongated.

So just in a normal track, I could tell that at least, guessed that that was him. Okay. Yeah. You knew his fingerprint. Yeah, but it was, that's just being big though. Right. My thought went to old, like really old nasty hooves. Yeah. They were indented almost hollow on the inside. I feel like there's like an old outdoor life story of like a bowl that has like it's missing the the front part of its, of one of its toes there. You know, and it's like that's that's how it's old. It's got to be really unique. Right. The last bit of tracking wisdom i've heard is that buck tracks are just simply bigger than dough tracks please tell us that's at least true yeah that's true i mean bucks generally are bigger than than those and so if you're

looking at tracks the largest ones would likely be um a buck just because they're they're bigger animals um that that from a sexual dimorphism but there's a lot of overlap there as you're shown on the screen, you know, being able to take somebody to an individual track and say definitively, this is absolutely a buck. You know, there's only a small percentage. It's five, 10 percent of all tracks that would be on that right end of the scale there where you could say, well, it's likely a buck. But there's a lot of overlap. I mean, just because it's got big tracks, doesn't necessarily mean it's a buck. And if you're interested in antlers, you know, There's a lot of probably large antler deer walking around for bucks that have medium to small size hooves.

So you may be able to segregate bucks out a slight a bit, but there is a ton of overlap as that graphic shows. And how big a tracks are we talking? If we want to be sure that we're looking at a buck track, what size does it need to approach to be like, okay, that is a mature buck? where you're looking at that graphic right there, you know, at least in that study, that was from Georgia, you know, the tracks that are more than four inches in length, at least down there, it would change geographically. So, you know, I live in upstate New York and the foothills of the Adirondex deer here are much larger than they are in Georgia as where you guys are in Montana. So, you know, a deer track that's probably four and a half, five inches in length. And overall three to three and a half inches wide. or wider is going to be a large deer. And then you'd be looking at probably some, if not most of those, being bucks. And I think I remember, Matt, from that study, it's saying, like, the top 10% of the biggest tracks you see those likely belong to a buck.

Is that, is that correct? Yeah, that study that you just showed was from Georgia, from the mid or early 2000s. They had about 150 deer that were hunter harvested, and they measured the tracks off of all of them, about 100 of the deer were bucks. And I think it was 8% were you were able to definitively say of the 150-something deer were bucks just based on the length or the width. Okay. So simply put, dew claws don't mean much. The amount of space between the pads of the hooves doesn't mean anything, but the very biggest tracks in the woods likely belong to bucks.

Is there anything else hunters can learn by looking at deer tracks? Oh, heck yeah. There's a lot you can get out of tracks. Freshness of the sign, right? I think that's probably one of the most undervalued types of sign. We concentrate on like signpost behavior, scrapes, rubs, those kinds of things, at least for white tails. And I think a lot of people overlook the freshness of the track and the preponderance of lots of tracks in an area just to have a lot of deer activity, whether they're feeding there or they're spending a lot of time. So freshness, the direction the deer. or headed and that travel might give you an indication of what their needs are, where they're going and coming from. And then just it could potentially point you in directions of other sign that will help you get on deer. You know, tracks are important, but looking for feeding sign or some of those other things I just mentioned. And certainly up in, at least in the New England and Great Lake States, there are a lot of successful people that use tracks to, you know, hunt down and kill a deer just based on following them.

the snow and I'm not one of those people that are successful at tracking only but certainly that can get you on deer too if you're in the right environment so lots of things that we can get out of tracks not necessarily segregating whether or not their bucks or does and if you come across like a deer with with the big red nose is that like what's the etiquette there is that a shoot don't shoot scenario for you and the good folks at NDA have you covered that one yet I think I think that one's off limits for all people to count. Okay.

Good to know. Thank you for educating us, man. Thanks for joining us. You got it. Merry Christmas, guys. Hey, Merry Christmas. Thank you. Yeah.

All right. Our next segment is Hot Tip Off. H-O-T-I-P-R. Let's all do a hot tip-off. H-O-T-I-P-R. Let's all do a hot tip-off. Hot tip-off is where two listeners go head-to-head with competing pieces of advice, and after we hear each tip, we'll declare which one is hotter.

If you have a hot tip, take a one-minute video on your phone and send it to radio at themedeater.com with the subject line hot tip-off. This week, it's Jack Anderson versus Luke Long, and they're competing for a $100 me-deer gift card. Take it away, Phil. Luke Long. Hey guys, my name's Luke Long. I've got a hot tip for you today. If you're like me, you like to hang the European mounts from the bucks you kill on your man cave wall or wherever it may be. And I've got an easy way to do that for you. Go to Walmart, you can get these two and a half inch metal brackets. They're four for five bucks. And you take one of these brackets and you're going to bend at one of these holes. So I take a pair of ice grips here and give it a little bend. About like that, you can adjust the angle. May I need to go a little further on this one. And I'm going to show you now on the wall how it works.

Alright, so here you can see I've got one mounted on the wall. I paint them black so they don't show up as much, but you're going to push that bracket right into that brain cavity and your deer's going to hang there. Just perfect. You can also hang antelope on them as well. I'm sure quite a few other animals maybe. You'll deer work. Jackalope.

Got that one crooked. But there you go. I've got a lot of them and they work really good. God, he had to borrow a lot of deer to make this big. Jack Anderson. Good hunter. Jack from Minnesota here coming at you with a hot tip off for skull cleaning. Ditch the turkey burner.

Get yourself a thermostat controlled water heater. Keep your temp between 90 and 110 degrees. A process called maceration will happen. The bacteria in that temp range is going to just eat the meat off of the skull. You're not going to have to do it. going to have to do any high pressure water blasting. It's pretty much all just going to fall off. Change this water every two to three days until all of the meat is off of the skull. Do the same process with donned dish soap and water to degrace it, whiten it with peroxide, and you're going

to yield some taxidermy level skull cleaning at home. Your nose bones are going to be there. Your nasal cavity is going to be there. Hands off, hands free. Your dog's going to love the smell of it. Give it a shot. all right phil is going to put up a poll for the chat to vote on the chat is going to decide who gets that one hundred dollar meat eater gift card between luke long and jack anderson we're going to discuss which one we like best again luke long had the manipulated metal brackets for european mounts jack anderson had the thermostat controlled water heater for european mounts cori which one you like better which one would get your vote man

both just fantastic liquid hot magma tips here but I think I'd have to go with jacks I'm gonna have to try that I noticed he had his antlers in the water too which is something I'm always worried about when you're boiling sure to keep those out I always wrap them in aluminum foil and do like everything I can to keep the antler and he was just using a five gallon bucket which is you know everyone's got a dozen of those laying around yeah didn't think about that either so I'm gonna have to try that so I'd probably have to go with Mr. Anderson Cal Luke Long or Jack Anderson which one I agree they're both great. I'm gonna go with Luke, though. I don't know. There's just something, you do save money with both for sure, but you also have to invest a little bit more with Jacks. True. So I don't know.

I like the simplicity. I think of folks who aren't mechanically skilled, like even they can knock out Luke's hack. That's great. Phil, do we have some votes happening? Do you have some votes. They're still coming. And we'll give them another 30 seconds or so. I started to look kind of late.

So we have one versus one in the room here. I really like both of these. Luke's the manipulated metal brackets. That's great because that's like the exact shape I want for a European amount. Like it put the skull right in the perfect position of how I think you want to display ahead. It is saving you a couple dollars. I think he said a four pack is five bucks. But I'm going to vote for Jack Anderson's.

That's just like it's take. a really sucky chore and making it much less sucky by doing the thermostat controlled water heater for euros. That's something you can walk away from. It's like a crock pot version. I think that's where

things go wrong with my friends. Just the walk away part. It's like, change the water every two to three days. And they're like, oh, yeah, that's been back there a long time. Our producer, Jake, just let me know that he bought one of those heaters on Jack's recommendation on Amazon. It was $30.

Oh, $30. That's what it costs to, like, fill a propane tank that you'd go through, you know, doing a European mount on a turkey cooker. And on that topic, with 62% of the vote, the winner is Jack with the heater. Jack Anderson, he's got a good head of hair on him. He's now going to get a $100 meat eater gift card as well. Good for you, Jack. Send your hot tip-offs to radio at the meat eater.com, and you might show up on a future show of mead eater. radio. Hey, you're looking for a good solid sweepstakes? Like the kind of sweepstakes you can sink your

teeth into. Well, I got it for you right here, buddy. You can sign up to win a trip to Bozeman for you and three family or friends, so a total of four people. Come to Bozeman. They come to meat at her headquarters. I cook you dinner. We all serve you a bunch of courses of dinner at our headquarters kitchen. We give you a thousand dollar gift certificate for our flagship meat eater retail store on Main Street and Bozeman. We pay your airfare, we pay your hotel, we pay your car, all covered by us.

Here's the rub. You got to go to firstlight.com and sign up with your email and phone number and opt in to all participating brand newsletters. That gives you one of your first chances to win. Then, for every 100 bucks you

spend at firstlight.com, you get additional entries, okay? In the end, We're going to pick one winner. They're going to pick their friends. They're going to pick their family. And they're going to come out. This is eligible for U.S. customers only.

Canadians, I don't know what to tell you. You're out of luck. It runs from December 9 to December 22. See you in town. All right. We're about halfway through the show. Let's take a break for some listener feedback. Phil, what's the chat have to say?

Chat's mostly talking with Randall, who is very active in the chat. Yeah. Randall, where is Randall sitting at right now? Somewhere on the live tour, right? He is in Nashville, Tennessee. He sent me a picture from the same green room we were hanging out at that Buckfest, 2025 for the Big Buck Hunter Championship. They're playing in the same venue that that was in. So Randall's a seasoned vet of that building. But we've got a few questions. Get some more in. We've got Cal here. We've got Corey here. Speaking of, Moguar says, I'll let Corey know that he, Morg was just saying thank you, Corey, for helping him with his cookbook through customs. says, such a kind and helpful guy. I agree, Mogore. We love having Corey here. Oh, glad you got your books, Moor.

Took him about a year, but that's how long it takes to get a book across the continent. It really was actually quite fast. That's good. Garrett has a question for Cal. Cal, have you, why, he says, why do guides not like the 7 millimeter REM mag? We've covered this multiple times, so I'm going to do it real quick. When the 7 num num num num made its appearance, it's the classic. thing that we still see today where target loads are the most prolific thing on

the market. They shoot great, but they don't kill well. And looking back on my experience with the old backfiring fire belching boat anchor, I think is what it was referred to as multiple times. That was the issue. Not the ballistic. not the caliber, but a lack of good ammo on the market. Killing ammo. There you go. Sweet.

Let's see. We've got a question from pain poplars. Deer jerky on a pellet grill versus a dehydrator. Is this something you guys have experience with? Yeah. Both methods? Yep. If you have a big fancy pants dehydrator, I think that's the way to go.

Um, for that same kind of set it and forget it type of deal. And it's, it would be like less expensive to doesn't, doesn't take a not a big drain on the old electric bill. Something you can do in your garage or kitchen as well, uh, versus pellet grill this time of year. I don't care for firing that thing up in December outside that's, it's, it's, yeah, again, and you're, uh, you're running a show when you're cooking and like, you got to account for that thing warming up.

It is a pain. But I do, I do like the product. The product's still good, this time of year. It just takes more time. Corey, any thoughts on jerky versus on the pellet grill versus dehydrator? I've only used my oven, convection oven. Yeah, I don't know. It takes three, four hours.

Makes pretty fine. That you look forward to firing up in December. Yeah, exactly. Kind of need it. What else we got, Phil? Friday arrows asks, best Christmas movie? Phil, you answer that one for us. Oh, I don't, I love Christmas, but I'm not super passive.

passionate about Christmas movies. I love the 1980, is it 1980? It might be 83. The animated Mickey's a Christmas carol. It's short and sweet. It's only like 25 minutes long. That was my, that was my Christmas carol. I love It's a wonderful life. It's a long movie. I saw on Amazon that they have an abridged version or they cut like an hour out of the movie, which I think is like sacrilegious. That's horrible. But it is a long movie. Yeah. You know, and like as far as modern stuff goes. I mean, Elf has kind of become

like a classic. Yes. The Home Alone one and two are also good to put on in the background. Yeah. Corey Cal, favorite Christmas movie.

I watched Bad Santa Two the other night. It's not good. It's funny, but that's not the best Christmas movie ever. I would have to say a Christmas Carol.

Mm. I think Scrooged with Bill Murray's like a fantastic Christmas movie. my like i guess serious christmas movie would definitely be it's a wonderful life of always been a sucker for that one um to your jerker and then a legit fun funny new christmas movie is uh oh crapes what's the the night before i think is what it's called with um oh that's the you know joseph rogan yes exactly

love it is in that movie that is a legit that one's pretty funny that is that is that is legit i like that one a lot elf would be my favorite christmas movie i'm far less passionate about christmas movies than christmas music though i love christmas music i've got uh christmas playlist that you know gets the the dust brushed off it in in thanksgiving um playing if maria carrie is on there i will shove you to the floor right i carry is on there my favorite christmas albums um uh casey must Graves. She has a phenomenal Christmas album, some very good original music on there. She does nothing wrong. See ya. She has a great

Christmas album. I love Snowman. We just need to stop. Puppies are forever. Oh, ho, ho. Michael Bubbley. Michael Boubley, he's, you know, he's like the Coca-Cola of Christmas music. You have to have Michael Blubley. I saw him in concert with my mother. Oh, was it a Christmas concert? I mean, it was near

the holiday seasons. I think he played like one or two, but it wasn't, it wasn't specifically Christmas. The Vince Guaraldi jazz record from a Charlie Brown Charlie Brown is like that's the only record I need. Yeah, that's like a jazzy, good Christmas music. That's cool. Randy Travis, I love his Christmas album.

Love, love Christmas music. Bill gives us a couple more. A couple more. Okay, let's see here. Question for Cal from Cade Cloberdands. Are you excited for the new role? Are you going to relocate to Missoula? He's stoked to have you at the helm.

Come to Colorado rendezvous this year. Wow, thank you. I am super stoked. I'm real excited to, yeah first first uh legit day is january one so um really excited been uh onboarding a bunch uh and working with with the team already and uh like yeah crazy crazy good uh staff uh the mission orientation um is uh provides for a different work environment for sure it's pretty pretty cool Cool. Passionate folks. Really, really neat. And, yeah, I'm not planning on relocating back to Missoula. It's like three of the four horsemen of the apocalypse in Missoula right now anyway.

Atmospheric river, insanely high winds. They don't need me in the mix right now. So you would be the fourth in that scenario. Got it. Exactly. I also love the Weezer Christmas album. Their rendition of Heart the Herald Angels sing. It's great stuff. It's, it's perfectly on. As a man who loves Weezer, I don't know if I can get on board with that. I'll drop some more recommendations throughout the show. Oh, but as far as modern

Christmas movies, one more for me too. There's an animated movie on Netflix called Klaus, which is kind of like a Santa origin story of Jason Schwartzman and J.K. Simmons. It's very, very good. Really? Yes, it's a great movie. I also love the Mannheim Steamroller and went and saw them last year in Bozeman when they

rolled through. But it wasn't the Manheim steamroller, which I felt a little bit trade. I didn't know. I mean, I think we got like lower than that. All of those bands from the 80s that still tour now are kind of like ship of Theseus or it's like if you just keep replacing all the members, is it even the same band anymore? You know, that's sort of thing. And then weirdly they shoehorned in the song Convoy. You familiar with that? Oh no. They performed that. That is so weird. It was very weird, very fun. The audience was not into it as much as I was. That's amazing. All right, we're going to move on our next. segment is meat pole I'll say show me a meat boys and take my pole Welcome to me in a radio I got a game to play

Meat poll is a test of how much you know about your fellow hunters and anglers I surveyed 500 meat eater listeners about the outdoors Your job is to predict their answers There are three questions Whoever is closest to the correct answer between Cal and Corey gets a point

and whoever gets two points will be the winner. Also, the chat should play along because Phil is going to watch your answers and give a shout out to whoever is closest. And unlike Price is Right, you guys can't cheat. So we know that the winner is, you only win if you're true of heart. Here's the first question.

What percentage of me, Deeder listeners, would rather deer hunt in the morning instead of the afternoon? Hmm. What percentage of meat eater listeners would pick deer hunting in the morning rather than the afternoon? Well, we don't call it first light for nothing. It's not last light. What would you pick, Corey? Deer hunting in the morning or afternoon?

What day of the week? What day of the week are we talking? We're going to say Thursday. Morning. Morning. Okay. Cal morning or afternoon? Morning.

Wow, two votes for morning. What percentage of meat eater listeners would rather deer hunt in the morning instead of The afternoon. 500 listeners answered this question. Yeah, 500. I like the afternoon just because there's a definitive end. When I'm out there in the morning, I'm always worried like I'm leaving some meat on the bone. Like if I take off at 10 a.m., it's all about to happen at 10.15 a.m.

Whereas in the afternoon, it's like it's done. It's over. I feel like that's somebody who stands in a strap to a tree's perspective. Like, why would you leave? Why would you, well, you got to leave at some point, I don't know. Well, yeah, it went as dark again. That's right. Okay, you boys have your answers.

Yeah. Go ahead and reveal your answers. Corey says 96% would rather hunt in the morning instead of the afternoon. Cal says 73%. Whoa. The correct answer is 64.8% that gives Cal the first point. He was nine percentage points off. I forget, you're good at this.

You're playing against the man of the people right now. He knows prices right. He knows meat pole. Well, I got spanked at prices right with Steve. That was surprising to me. Now, I did my own survey at home. Of the 41 bucks, I could recall, 19 were killed in the morning, 22 in the afternoon. That means 54% were afternoon versus 46% in the morning.

And I found this interesting. My five biggest white tails were killed in the afternoon, but my three biggest mulees were killed in the morning. I don't know how to make sense of that. I have many animals that I located in the morning and killed in the afternoon. Had I not been out there in the morning. Sure. I would have no idea where they were.

Just hunt both. We had Mark from Southeast Arizona, I guess 65%. Point two percentage points off. Well done, Mark from Southeast Arizona. All right, here is our second question. Cal has a one point lead. What percentage of meat eater listeners have ridden a horse? Oh, that's a new one.

What percentage of me, did your listeners, have ridden a horse? I have never rode a horse. I was thinking about, I'm reading a book right now called The Horse. That was what made me think of this. I don't think I've even ever touched a horse. I don't think you're really missing out on anything. I'm with you. I was like, well, I've made it to 33 years old without touching a horse.

I can probably do the rest of my life without that. Have you ridden a horse, Corey? Yeah, I grew up with horses, worked with horses. Majority of my life was round horses. When's the last time you were on a horse? It's been a couple years now, though. Okay. Yeah, five, six years now.

Cal, when's the last time you jumped on a horse? Last fall. I did some... I can't imagine it's all that high. Mule riding. What percentage of meat eater listeners have ridden a horse? Phil, have you rode a horse? I have ridden a horse.

Okay. Yes, I don't know if you know this, but Philip means lover of horses. I feel like I told you that You already knew that I did know that But I do not love horses But I have ridden one, yes That's horses

What percentage of meat eater listeners Have ridden a horse That's 75% just in the room Is it true of you Phil? Do you love horses? I do not I don't, I just something about them Maybe I'm just intimidated by them

Or I think it's just the smell If this wasn't a kid's show I'd tell you I mean, like, take the romanticism away. I don't mind looking at them, especially like, I know wild horses are all wrong for ecology purposes, but they're quite majestic out there. They are majestic. I just think in the year 2025, almost 26, I find no use for a horse living in my suburban neighborhood.

Yeah, I have had many fun adventures that have included those animals. Oh, yeah. And every one of those adventures also included moments where I was like, I hate these things so much. They were just a tool for me the last few years. Exactly. Just a tool. Be boys ready with an answer. Sometimes the tools don't make it out of the woods.

Go ahead. The tool tries to kill you. And reveal your answers. Corey says 40% of meat eater listeners have ridden a horse. Cal says 30%. The correct answer is 81.8%. Really? So Corey was the closest and he wasn't even halfway to the correct answer.

81.8%. Phil, how'd the chat do? We had Friday arrows who asked the Christmas movie question. I guess 84%. That was the closest one I could see. Most people were way under, for sure. According to a 2018 survey, about 27 million Americans ride a horse each year. That's more horse riders than golfers, tennis players, or skiers.

Of those 27 million Americans, about 70,000 wind up in an emergency room because of horse-related injuries. All right. The third and final questions, it is tied at one to one between Cal and Corey. What percentage of meat eater listeners have eaten deer testicles? What percentage of meat eater listeners have eaten deer testicles? This will determine our winner. Corey, have you? Yeah, sure have.

Cal have you. Yep. I have as well. We're three for three at the host table. Phil, lover of horses. Have you eaten deer testicles? We are three for four for the room. I have not.

for four. Man. What percentage of media listeners have eaten deer testicles? Such an easy thing to pack out too. Oh, for sure. They got no weight. Yeah, you're already packing yours out. Mm-hmm. Phil, or excuse me, Cal, how would you

tell someone to prepare a deer testicle? Oh, beat it and fry it. Yeah. Yeah. They're great. And like a tenderloin in that, just like don't let that thing get in the freezer. They're too small, make it up as an appetizer in this first couple days. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you can pull that membrane off the outside, but if you just cut the thing in half and give it a couple of wax with the hammer. Totally. Yeah.

And leave that membrane until you're ready to cook it, though. Like, until, you know, the minute you're about to throw that thing in the fryer, leave it on right up until then. You boys ready with an answer? Let's do this. Yep. Go ahead and reveal your answers

the victory. Does that say 26 or 2.6? 26. Corey says 26% of our 500 meat eater listeners have eaten a deer testicle. Cal says 33%. The correct answer is 9.9% that makes Corey our winner

of MeatPool today. We've been talking about this stuff for so long. I figured the adaptation rate would be a little higher. I think we just convinced some folks. If not my little flavor text here will do that deer testicles are a super food a three ounce serving has 110 calories four grams of fat and 18 grams of protein nutritionally that makes them similar to sardines and pork tenderloin for tips on cooking them go watch steve's video called how to cook

venison testicles on meat eaters youtube channel you get ryan bd 21 guess 10% wow 0.1 percentage points off well done ryan i would rather have a fried deer testicle with cocktail sauce, like legit cocktail sauce, um, then pork tender one. Hmm. Yeah, you know what?

I think I, I would say the same. It's very close, but I would say of all the organs, that's my favorite is deer testicle. I take that above a heart, above a liver, uh, anything else in the gut pile. I used to make every year. I haven't done it in years because I, now I just get frustrated and throw the hearts in the grinder in the grind pile. Mm-hmm. Um, which is a fine use of them.

But I used to make these caprice sandwiches with, uh, deer heart or elk heart, because the bite, the consistency of that muscle is so perfect for sandwiches. Like, it's there, sure. But you're going to be able to, to bite through it. Um, and that is a, like, it's pretty, it's pretty special when the garden's all fresh. We asked this question a couple years from now, it's going to be doubled. that percentage point. Hey, you're looking for a good solid sweepstakes? Like the kind of

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You're out of luck. It runs from December 9 to December 22. See you in town. All right. Joining us on the line last is Cornell University professor Trent Pressler, his new book Evergreen. is about America's relationship with conifers. Trent, welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for having me, guys. We will get to Christmas trees in just a second. First, I want to talk about some of the other things your book covers. You say that evergreen trees have started wars. Tell us about that. Oh, yeah. The American Revolutionary War actually started with the pine tree riot, which I think most people find shocking because we're taught in fifth grade that it started with the Boston

Tea Party, right? But by the 15th century, the Brits had cut down every single tree in all of their islands in the British Isles. You go to Britain today, England, you drive around the countryside. You think these are nice sheep's meadows full of grass. But historically, they were covered in trees. And they used wood to build their battleships. And they were desperate for tall, straight pine trees to make the masts on their ships for the Royal Navy. and they had been blocked by other nations from cutting trees and the Pyrenees, the Alps, and the Baltic states.

So they sent the pilgrims to America to cut down trees. And eventually the Crown said, they told all the colonists, we own all the big trees. Any tree over 24 inches wide belongs to the monarchy for the Royal Navy. Boy, that riles a guy up. Right? So the colonists got pretty mad. they started cutting down all the pine trees that were 23 inches wide in defiance of the law, right? And so you see today even in a lot of colonial homes in northeastern U.S., wide pine plank flooring, that's 23 inches wide, which is from that era of rebellion.

But anyway, long story short, the king sends his surveyor's over to mark the trees that they own. and this poor guy was having a beer in the Weyer Tavern, the Pine Tree Tavern in Weyer, New Hampshire, when this angry lumberjack named Ebenezer Mudgett stormed in with his crew. They'd painted their faces black with soot. They held the king surveyors up by their feet and whipped them furiously with pine branches and sent them out of town on the back of a horse. So that was really the start of the American Revolutionary War. And it predated the Boston Tea Party by exactly one year.

Amazing. That's a great bit of American history. Wonderful. In Chapter 9, you talk about the relationship between whaling and evergreen trees. How were those two connected? Yeah, absolutely. So as we hunted whales to near extinction in 1800s, we were using them primarily their blubber for lighting oil. It was, we burned it for everything.

People lit their homes with whale oil candles. whale oil lanterns. And as the whale populations diminish so sharply, that the price of whale oil skyrocketed, where it was in like 1850 money, it was like $38 bucks a gallon, which is like outrageous, like several hundred dollars for a gallon of whale oil. So there was a desperate search on to find a more affordable burning fuel. And we settled on something called camphine, which was a blend of turpentine and a few other solvents. But turpentine is one of the world's most flammable substances, and it exists in evergreen conifers.

So that thus began this huge effort to tap pine trees from North Carolina all the way through Texas to tap the turpentine and the sap and the resin so that we could have a burning fuel. And ironically, it actually saved the whales from extinction because it released the pressure on hunting them so much. Wow. Love, love this evergreen history. Later, you write about how in the 19th century, being a lumberjack was the most lethal profession in America. One stat showed that over a 40-year career, lumberjacks had a 50-50 chance of dying on the job. What was it about that era that made this so dangerous? Well, it's hard to fathom how men in that era cut down trees that big. You see these archival photos of the lumberjacks kind of leaning up against us. sequoia tree or a redwood tree that might be 30 feet wide at the base. And if you're, you know, it's hard to picture it now, but America was covered in old growth trees,

trees that were between 500 and 3,000 years old. And the only tools that they had at the time were these rudimentary tools. There was a double-bladed axe and a what they called a misery whip, which was a long saw that was between 15 and 20 feet long that two men would hold on either end and like kind of push and pull like this, right? So you think about it, you have no mechanical equipment. You have a saw and an axe, and you're with a group of guys, you know, you all probably have rotten feet and rotten teeth and syphilis and you're miserable. It's like 1850, right?

And you're like, let's cut down this tree that's 300 feet tall and weighs as much as six humpback whales. So the majority of those deaths happened simply by being. crushed underneath a fallen trees and branches. It was shocking. Yeah, you and I both grew up in South Dakota. So when you cover the green glacier in the book, that hit close to home. Explain to folks what the green glacier is and why it's a problem. So the green glacier is this menacing advance of millions and millions of cedar trees that are taking over the Great Plains. And it is an ecological crisis of epic proportions that I wish more people would pay attention to.

Let me just back up for a second. The cedars I'm talking about are the eastern red cedar, otherwise known as Juniperis, Virginia, They're native to the U.S. They're not invasive. They're actually native here. They grow in all 50 states. They're incredibly resilient and adaptive. So for about 10,000 years, they were kept in check in places like South Dakota.

They only grew in river valleys and ravine bottoms. And they were kept in check by two things. The first were indigenous peoples, Native Americans, had controlled burning practices. so they would occasionally light fire to the prairie, which would suppress the advance of woody tree saplings. The second was the presence of billions and billions of bison. So there's a lot of research that shows that land where bison were present, where they grazed and they trampled, they kept the emergence of woody tree saplings at bay, which allowed the world's greatest grassland ecosystem to thrive here in the central part of the United States. It's still the

world's largest remaining intact grassland. But it's in grave danger right now because without indigenous fire practices and without billions of bison roaming the plains, now the cedars are taking over. They're creeping up out of the river valleys and they're spreading across millions of square miles of the prairie states. And I've talked to cattle ranchers even that are going to have to close up shop because they're losing prime grazing land to the trees. Yeah, where I grew up in eastern South Dakota. The cattle ranchers there, public enemy number one was the red cedar. It was not coyotes. It was not Canadian thistle. It was the red cedar just because they would take over and choke out entire pastures that were otherwise, you know, very productive places to graze. And you got that

neighbor next year who is not into agriculture. They just want to be out there for their deer season. Sure. And they like the trees because it gives the deer something to hide behind. Like, come on, come on. North American grasslands conservation act. That is one tool that if we get that sucker off the ground running, would provide some additional tools to knock back the cedar encroachment. I love that you bring this up. Yeah, grasslands are very important to us in the hunting angling space.

All right, let's talk about Christmas trees. To write this book, you spent a lot of time on Christmas tree farms. that is a type of farm I've never been around. What is the average Christmas tree growing operation like? Yeah, so they're out of public eye for 11 months of the year, right? But they're mostly small family farms. The average age of a Christmas tree farmer is 65, which is a problem for the industry because people are aging out and not replacing themselves.

The average salary and income actually is actually quite low at about $25,000. So most of these farmers have off-farm income or day jobs. But one of the great benefits of Christmas tree farms is that they're growing a great, highly valuable economic product on marginal land. So this is land often that is rocky or on steep slopes where you can't grow corn or you can't install irrigation. So what can you grow there? You can grow Christmas trees.

And often those farms also are doing a whole lot of work at just preserving open space and keeping the suburban sprawl from getting every single square. inch of our wild habitat. Yeah. In 1985, Americans bought 33 million fresh cut Christmas trees in 2023. That number was just 12 million. That's a 21 million decline. What happened, Trent? Yeah, the Christmas tree industry has contracted by about 85% in the last half century. And there's a couple factors. The first is the pernicious rise of artificial fake plastic Christmas trees, which all are made in China, 100% in plastics factories subsidized by their government. I'm getting the feeling you don't like them. You think? Like, I don't know. Read my book.

I make no bones about how I really feel about Christmas trees. But, you know, so the plastic Christmas tree business now, last year, those imports were over $2 billion with another $4 billion in just plastic Christmas ornaments and lights and everything else. So that's, That's one thing that has really affected the natural Christmas tree farm industry. And by the way, today, the entire national stockpile of Christmas tree farms could fit within, roughly within the city limits of Los Angeles or New York City. Wow. There's only, yeah, there's only 3,000 farmers left grow in Christmas trees.

It's a dying business. But the other thing that happened along the way is that trees became much harder to grow in a climate that's changing quite rapidly. We've seen like the heat dome that was in Oregon a couple summers ago where it was 100 degrees for a week. It killed tens of millions of young saplings in Christmas tree farms. We're also seeing extended periods of drought. You're probably familiar since you're deer hunters. You've seen the extensive beetle kill damage in the western U.S.

With just millions of acres of pine trees standing dead because the beetles would normally be killed in a really tough cold winter. But with a mild winter, they're surviving in great numbers and attacking. evergreen trees in the spring and they're just not able to recover so i've spoken to a lot of christmas tree farmers around the country where they just lose the seedlings to disease or drought or heat and they can't afford to replace them and uh it's a slow-moving disaster because if i might add one more point if you think the heat dome that killed millions of seedlings three years ago we won't see the impact of that in the marketplace for another seven years because the trees grow eight or 10 years before they're big enough to cut them down

Now, you interviewed the man who hunts down America's most famous tree, the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree. Tell us about how that tree is selected. Yeah, Eric Pouts, he's got one of the most fascinating jobs in the world, I think. He's been in this position for 30 years as the head gardener for Rockefeller Center. And he drives around the northeast in his Ford truck, and he's kind of just scoping out trees constantly. And he keeps notes and note cards and note pads of where he sees trees. then sometimes he will literally just walk up to a door of a house and knock on the door and say, hello, I'm the guy from Rockefeller Center. Can we cut down your tree? And some people

slam the door and they think this is an axe murderer. This is weird. And then some people are like, really, are you that guy? And he has an ID and some stuff he shows them to prove that he's legit. But he's got a backlist of many trees in his mind. So he's already pretty much picked the tree for the next like five years. And then he kind of circles back to to monitor them, make sure they're healthy. They're getting water and nutrients. But anyway, once they pick the tree, they get the approval of the owner. They'll make a nice plaque to install. They'll come on cutting day. They wrap all the branches very carefully and then put it on a giant flatbed truck and haul it into New York City.

Amazing stuff. Last question. If we're just strictly looking at this from a conservation standpoint, is it better to get a real Christmas tree every year or use a fake one? Always buy a real tree. I will say this from the,

I will shout this from the top of every mountain. The world doesn't need more plastic. Okay, and artificial trees, there's a myth that, oh, they last forever. Let me get a fake tree. But a lot of research shows that, in fact, artificial Christmas trees are similar to IKEA furniture and that people usually throw them away after seven years. After seven years, you know, you want the next tree that's got different lights or the revolving base or Bluetooth speaker or now there's even fake Christmas trees that come with an artificial pine scent embedded in them. And, you know, also every time you buy an artificial tree and let's say you do use it for seven years before you throw it in the landfill. during those seven years, that means seven years of real trees that are not being purchased from

small family farmers. And then you also have to think of just the farms themselves where the trees are grown. They're providing wildlife habitat for grazers, birds, insects, the mammals that we all like to hunt and fish. These are part of our ecosystem and our living environment. And yes, we cut it down, but all those farms, they plant another one right in the place where they cut the other one down. So it's the most renewable resource we've got. Good stuff. Love it. Don't need to twist our arm about having a real treat. How did you find this guest? This is the best guest ever. Oh, what a compliment, Trent. We've done a year and a half of episodes, and Cal has declared you to be the best guest. Well, fell us out the codens. We stick together. I'm honored. Yeah. Yeah. Trent's new book Evergreen is

available right now wherever books are sold. It's a fun read for folks who spend a lot of time outside. Trent, thanks for joining us. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys. Merry Christmas. Do you have a Christmas tree up at home right now? No, I don't.

No, okay. No. How about last year? Did you have one last year? Yeah. The year before that? No. Okay.

Yeah, every other year rotation you're on? It's just like the travel schedule and trying to keep take care of something. And if I'm being honest, the dead tree is still hanging around. Oh, no way. Yeah. Where are at? In your backyard? Just tucked over on the side of the house.

It's a good habitat for some birds and bowls and mice. It is. Yeah. Good, good. Doesn't bother me. But boy, I just do not think much of people with fake trees now. Sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Riven the planet. Oh, right up there with those scented trash bags for me. Yeah. I hate that smell. I love the mountains to get our tree. Corey, you sometimes do that. This year, you bought one on.

of parking lot, though, right? Nope, no, we got a fake tree. Oh, fake tree. What a loser. Yep, they walk among us. Yeah, sitting right next to you. Bill, how about you? What's the tree situation?

We've got a real tree. We just go to a nursery, so we're not out there getting our boots dirty, but it's real. Yeah, there's things that I just don't argue with my wife about. There you go. Now you tell her to watch this. I'm going to change your mind. Definitely. We're going to read that book.

I'd go like this route. I'd be like, you know, it's interesting. that you're so invested in raising this child. Right? Yeah, that's pretty neat that you think this is worthwhile. Yeah. But some things aren't. There's not going to be any planted around for Marshall when he gets your guys his age.

Those trees in the land. Trust me, the late November deer hunting, I'm looking at Christmas trees. I wish I could. Yeah. But again, it's not worth it. Maybe so. That's why Corey has that black eye. All right, our last segment is Tattoos I Regret

Hello, Darkness, my old friend I've looked at my tattoo again It really seemed like such a good idea When I was drunk last summer in the Pisa The Tattoo says a puss and a pot We'll always find more beans. What the f*** does that mean? It's a tattoo I regret.

We do this segment only to hear that beautiful song. It's wonderful. It's good stuff. We have two tattoos today. Cal and Corey are going to describe what they look like for the listening audience. But if you want to see them for yourself and you do, then head over to the media your podcast YouTube channel to watch this episode. All right, Phil,

show us that very first tattoo. Is this the, sorry, the deer one? You got it right there. What does that look like, Cal? Describe for our listening audience, what you're seeing. Say real tight-racked white tail. I think it's sitting on top of a knee. Is that a leg?

I think that's shoulder. Is it really? Yeah, it's shoulder. upper arm. And then the eye is real dark. Uh-huh. This tattoo was sent to us by Jack Shotgun. Uh, he says, hello to my favorite podcast.

I present to you the tattoo I most regret. I was 19 years old. It was the 4th of July and my buddy had recently purchased a tattoo gun. He asked me what I wanted and being a lover of all things outdoors, I said I'd like a big old buck on my arm. I paid $50 for it and he tattooed a nice big white tail. Now, here's the problem. I live in Utah and have never seen a white-tail buck with my own eyes.

So, Jack wasn't specific enough. And instead of getting a big old mule deer buck, he's got a white tail that came straight from Michigan, and he's never even laid eyes. Did the friend continue on in his tattoo career? I don't know. That'd be an interesting aside. I think it's pretty well done. I love the muscular neck. It's all run it up.

Yeah, this is not, yeah, it is funny. It's worth having. It's not a bad tattoo, but it's not a great tattoo if you've never seen a white. It does take up some space. A lot of precious real estate on Jack shotgun's upper arm. Oddly enough for me, the fact that it's $50, I'm like, oh, yeah, good job. Yeah. Friday Arrow says honestly not bad for $50.

That's a good deal. Okay, here is our next tattoo. This is from Eric James. Corey, what do you see in there from Eric? Well, there's a lot going on here. It looks like a mountainous scene. with a fly rod and maybe some sort of wolf

dry fly going on there. There's a latitude, longitude coordinates down by his wrist. That is the important part. Looking at his forearm there on the inside. It's very well done. It looks fresh, obviously, in this photo. A lot of details.

Skin still red. Yeah, a lot of deep detail. Here's what Eric had to say about that tattoo. He said, this tattoo is actually one of my favorites. That being said, it still managed to cause me a great deal of embarrassment. The coordinates in the tattoo are of a small creek.

My family and I have fished as long as I can remember. We usually go together once a year. About six years ago, though, I went with my uncle and cousins and we hiked separately. I got to a point in the trail

where it forks, and I took a wrong turn and wound up a mile from the creek. Not a big deal, but as you can imagine, my family gave me all sorts of shit. How could you not know? It's literally on your arm,

they said. mocked me the rest of the day, and that story often comes up at family gatherings or any time the creek is mentioned. I'm sure this week at Christmas, Eric is going to hear about that. Now, okay, someone, Phil has just put a comment up there from D.N.H. Saad. He says, now that's how you spot burn. Totally agree.

Can you imagine putting, like, your favorite spot in the mountains, the exact coordinates on your arm for all to see? Nope. No. Yeah, you're just sitting at a restaurant And somebody's eyeball on your wrist over there Yeah Or watching this show

Eric James has told all Look it up right now His favorite creek is To fish at with his family It's not gonna be so good anymore Eric It's a great tattoo though Good tattoo But now he has to get mocked

At Christmas time Because of the time he got lost Go into that exact spot Huh All right that brings us to the end of this week's show Phil let's get some final feedback from the chat Oh sure I was gonna look up where this guy's spot was

but it's fine I guess let's see here here we are first of all Santa came into the chat he says quote you think getting a tattoo is good no getting a tattoo is not good

I don't care about it but it's not good behavior thanks Santa appreciate it sit down Santa we've got a question Randall Williams do deer balls taste like cowballs

or are they completely different taste the same it's just like working with something the cow balls which are from a bowl, those are five exercise from a deer. So it's like working with a roast off of a big bull elk versus an antelope. I think there can be some flavor change whether you're working in the rut or not.

Sure. And that's more elk experience with elk testicles. Five exercise, though, on a bull. She's from Jack Lyons, he says. Oopsie. Hi, all advice for cooking pronghorn antelope for someone who is an adult onset hunter. Got my first antelope with a bow this year. Very quick.

A bow. I think in the nation, archery anelope has one of the lowest success rates for hunters. So well done, Jack Lyons. Cal, tell them how to cook that thing. Just meet him for everybody. Don't overcook it. Yeah, just nice and simple. Don't overcook it.

It'll be great. Yeah, and I think the taste of that antelope, Jack, was determined back in August or September whenever you killed this thing I think anelope gets a bad rap because people kill them when it's hot outside they don't take care of the meat right away they're butchering the thing in a place

where they set the hind quarter on a sage bush and those sage bushes are super oily and so when folks are like oh this meat just tastes like that's not what the antelope tasted like that's what the antelope tasted like after you laid the hind quarter on a whole sage bush and got it covered in oil so I think Jack if it tastes good

pat yourself on the back back in August for how you took care of the meat. Corey, what would you say about cooking that antelope? Yeah, I agree. Hopefully, uh, staked most of it. At least every antelope that I get, I try and I try not to grind any of it just because every steak from neck to tail is just so darn delicious. Yeah. And typically, uh, tender too.

So we, I'll tell you straight up, we had a very tense evening meal, uh, about 10 days ago. in my household where I said now don't overcook that oh oh and and snort overcooked it and snort overcooked it and uh how overcooked just a solid medium well okay yeah like pertney or burnt yeah i mean it's like cube it up and turned into green chili at that point you know what else you got This is from Ryan, Monaghan. Question for everyone. I'm still looking for a gift for my dad that might help him hunt a little easier. He's getting older and isn't as mobile as he used to be.

Gift ideas for older folks? Have you got him the effed up old trucks calendar yet? Yeah. That'd make him a better hunter. Well, it's something to think about. Hunt a little easier. On X. I find that most of the older hunters in my life don't have on X and you show it to them.

they're blown away. Like, well, I've always wondered who owned that property over yonder. I don't know, makes it getting in out of the field a lot easier. If you hunts in a cold place, just some hand warmers, toe warmers. So folks, they get cold faster than a young buck like Corey. Yeah, well, and one thought of those image stabilizing binos from SIG. Everybody gets a little shaky as they age. Oh, man.

But maybe a little less expensive, a solid shooting tripod. cod, something that can help keep that gun steady. Yep. He's rifle hunting. I like all these. That's good thinking. They'll do a few more. Sure, we got one from Phil.

He says, hey, Phil, Phil here. I'd like to know if the crew has a preferred Christmas cocktail or adult beverage. Can you ask them about the next question break? We'll do, Phil. Corey said yes before the question was finished. What is it, Corey? Anything and everything. Uh-huh.

Yeah. Beer. Whiskey. Yeah. Bodca. Uh, keel. That really is. anything and everything.

I saw an old ad for Dr. Pepper back in like the 60s or 70s where they recommended heating up some Dr. Pepper on the stove and you serve that at Christmas time as like a Christmas drink. Oh, really? I was like that idea. So the last couple of years, I've been heating some up on the stove and then I pour some rum in there. And I feel like I'm having a cocktail from 50 years ago.

Hmm. Nice. Phil and I have covered this and I've secured some, but it's in. Idaho, go on. Boz Angeles, like, we just cannot get the, the Christmas ails, like the seasonal cold weather beers. Those are my favorites. That was going to be my answer.

Yeah. Yeah. So we have Jubal ale, which is good. Which is one of my favorites. That's from Deschutes out of bend. Jubal ale is a big, good one. It's very, very unique tasting for sure. But I think that my favorite is Ninkasi Slayer, and it is not distributed in the state of Monta.

And the thing is it used to be, but there was, I heard about there was some drama about, there was like a distributor war. They were, they were kind of vying for power. And I guess whoever distributes Ninkasi said, fine, we're just going to, we'll take our business elsewhere. And they stopped bringing Ninkasi beers out. Slayer is a fine winter beer. I love beers that don't have like a lot of Christmas beers, we'll do a bunch of additives. Like they'll put spices in them or fruits and stuff, which is, you know, that's fine on occasion. But I can't drink a lot of that.

And I think it's like a natural beer that gets kind of like a nice fruity. roasty flavor with just the grains and the hops is impressive. Lower budget option that was surprisingly tasty was the Sam Adam seasonal. Like their winter beer.

We had that in South Dakota a couple weeks ago and it was great. Back when it felt like winter. It was like six below zero. Yeah. I love a good eggnog. I do a homemade eggnog. The thing about eggnog is that But I can't drink a lot of it. I'm not much of a sipper.

I don't really like sipping on drinks. You know, another Christmas song I love is Father Christmas by the Kinks. I'd put that like a top five Christmas song of all time. And it's like where some kids are angry that like, goddamn Santa didn't bring this any gifts again this year. Doesn't necessarily age great because he asked for a machine gun to scare the kids down the street in Father Christmas.

So it's a little relic. What else you got, Phil? Give us a couple more. Sure, Dylan's asking what you're going to do with your deer this year, Spencer. Well, specifically, are you going to make more tallow? We have tallow in the freezer. We'll render that over Christmas break sometime. We're going to have some more lip balms, boot bombs, make some lotion, some chapstick.

We have great plans with all that tallow. I didn't kill anything early enough this year to have like a super, super fatty buck. Last year, I killed a buck in Idaho in early October, and that thing was loaded with fat. So this year, I'm kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel. as far as my towel goes. One more, Phil. One more. Why hasn't Meat Eater created an ugly slash holiday sweater?

That's from Teodor or something or other? Great question. That's a great question. I think it's a good idea. We should do something like that. Yep. That's for Sam upstairs. Okay. Take care of that.

2026. Now we have pre-recorded episodes next week and the week after for Christmas and New Year. So this is our last live show of the year. uh thanks for listening everybody merry christmas happy holidays happy new year travel safe get outside have fun appreciate you hanging with us for 2025 bye now you can't see you can sing your teeth in two oh i got it for you right here buddy you can sign up to win a good solid sweepstakes like the kind of sweepstakes you can sink your teeth into i got it for you right here buddy you can sign up to win a trip to Bozeman for you and three family or friends so a total of four people come to

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