The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 866: The Boundary Waters Tragedy, Oklahoma CWD, and Mutilated Paddlefish

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

Steven Rinella and the MeatEater crew discuss: A toxic sulfide mine just outside the Boundary Waters Wilderness gets a thumbs up from Senate Republicans; Oklahoma lets loose its pet deer into the wild; how paddlefish anglers in Missouri are mutilating then releasing fish; a meteor shower; and more.  Connect with Steve and The MeatEater Podcast Network Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Listen up, Mother Scratchers. If you listen to this show, you know how I feel about public land. Well, right now, there are 4,000 acres along the Tucker Town Reservoir in North Carolina. That could either go to developers or they could become public game lands forever. We've teamed up with our friends at OnX to make sure it's the latter. We want them going public.

Here's the deal. Meat Eater, and OnX. have each put up $100,000 to match your donations. That's $200,000 in matching funds on the table. But this only runs from April 14th to May 14th. When the money's gone, it's gone. Go to savetuckertown.org. We're raising money to help keep it public.

Hit it, Phil. Boom. This week on the news show, we're talking about Senate Republicans giving a big old thumbs up to a toxic copper sole. fide mine, just outside of the Boundary Waters' Wilderness on the Superior National Forest. Oklahoma starts letting deer breeders cut their pet deer loose in the wild, thinking it'll somehow help genetics, despite any reason to think so. Paddlefish anglers in Missouri are practicing catch, mutilate, and release fishing.

I just made that up. Spencer's interested in a meteor shower, which is cool. Yeah. And Steve bitches even more about Colorado's asinine animal rights movement. Plus a lot more, joined today by Dr. Randall Williams. Jordan Sillers is here

from Blood Trails podcast and many other things. Dr. Jordan Sillars. Sorry, Dr. Jordan. That's fine. I'm on the wrong side of the table. It's fine. No, it's fine. I'm a big credentialist, you know. Dr. Jordan, Sillers is here. Do you have any advanced degrees?

B.A. B.A. Spencer, yeah. B.A. Spencer, Newhart. B.A. Barangis? G.D. Yannis. Barely. the B-G-E-D.

B-A. Brody Henderson. You did a great job reading that intro, but I'm curious as to whether you mistakenly said Steve bitches or you're now referring to yourself as Steve and the third person. Like, that's a thing now? No, it's not. Because I was just trying to keep with the format.

Steve's just being a voice of God at top. Yeah, it's like picture that you're at home. He dissociates for the introduction. I bitch more about Colorado's anti-furband. When you're talking to your wife, you're not like, Steve needs to clean his room. No, no. I'm going to bitch about the Colorado's fur ban. Okay.

And there's a bunch of just, yeah, I'm just going to go off on it for a while, like an hour. I want to hear it. Yonnie. Steve and I just returned from Illinois. I just did a roast episode. I was watching the edit. And I said that the Monastena State University Bobcats pounded the Illinois, whoever.

You put the yes on there. Yeah. You know, for whatever reason growing up, like I just said that a lot. And it was later in life when I was finally corrected. And it's still just a hard habit to break for me. Anyways, we were in Illinois hunting turkeys with the winners. Actually, not the winner. We hunted it with the brothers in law of the winner.

of last year's TRCV. He had a baby and couldn't make it. Yeah, or his wife was about to have a baby and couldn't be gone. And so he sent his two brothers-in-law, which was very nice of him. And I felt like, what a great thing for all three of those brothers

to be so lucky to marry into that group of people and be like, oh, you're my new brother-in-law? And, oh, you like to hunt a lot? I mean, not everybody gets that. Yeah. Anyways, amazing hunt. Quite possibly the best day of Eastern Turkey hunting of experience. Would you say yours was equally as good? We had a hell of a day one day.

Very interesting day. Yeah. Very interesting day. Lots of birds playing ball, as we like to say. Yeah. Made me feel like a real expert turkey collar. Are we going to go into talking about any of the details of the hunting? Did you get any of those like 30 pounders? No, they weren't that huge. No. No. They're big, but they went huge. You know, we had a bunch of scales that didn't have batteries in them. And so it's hard to weigh them. I felt like I had a lifetime of turkey experiences in one day. Probably the best. You know how Turkey's like to strut on railroad tracks?

So there's this group of Turkey in this place is like, it's nothing but railroad tracks. It's like railroad tracks. Because we're hunting along a valley and the tracks go down the valley. Trains are a major, major part of hunting here. Turkey strutting on the tracks. And it leads to the question like, what do they do when the train comes? So, like, you get all excited, thinking the train's going to come, and they're going to go flying way off, you know?

When the train comes, they step out of the way. I mean, they step out of the way. The train going by, and they're like, like, they just go down the embankment and stand there. These aren't slow-ass Montana trains, like the one I deal with almost on a daily basis that you feel like you could just about run next to and grab the ladder and jump on. too. The, like, I stepped out of the way for a train and when I was with Andy, we took a video. I mean, that sucker was humming like a solid 60 miles an hour.

Just like, the cars are just like half a second, you know. You know how you've talked about flies, seeing a hand coming at them? Maybe the turkeys. They're so fast. Yeah. They're so fast. It seems slow to them. A lot of turkey hunting experiences.

A lot of turkey hunting. Yeah, it was cool. They played ball. But we just want to give everybody a heads up that we're going to have the time period when you can buy raffle tickets for next years. For next years, for the 27 hunt. And I believe we're working on securing the same farm. I think that if he's up for it, and he said, let me know if you want to do this again, if that host is up for it, that will be the home. Yep.

Both of the winners got their birds. Yep. fairly quickly. They both, my guy got his first ever turkey. My buddy, Andy, came out and chefed. Sheft for it.

That right there makes it worth it. Phenomenal food. Oh, yeah. We had smoked king salmon, meal deer, we had spot prawns from Alaska. We had like meal deer kibasa.

Our host one night brought over rib-eyes. we had razor clams he did that thing with the we talked about this before on a show where you velvet the meat with the baking soda you know and then he deep fried it and did like an Asiany kind of a dish

so good and I wonder if we could sell more tickets to the raffle if it was like you guys and then more of us also come along too I think so yeah but I don't know that it's

it's, I don't know, it's not an infinite turkey spot. Did Andy get to hunt? We should probably, did Andy hunt? Andy Hunt? Good. That's, listen. I actually, you want to hear like a long story. But we're going to move on. No, no, because it has it.

This is, there's something to be learned from Andy's story. And this is what it is. But I'll tell you that first and then you tell me if we should tell the story. He basically missed a bunch of turkeys. And we can just say, say, say, that's it. I can tell you about all the hunts. How many is a bunch?

He missed three different journeys? Are we talking like missed opportunities, missed shots? And the missed opportunities. Great. He doesn't... I've been friends with him. I've been friends with him since we were like in school. Oh, I'm looking forward to hearing his version at the shack this summer.

He's still in that place of turkey hunting. When that gobbler comes over the ridge and there's his head. And all you can see is his head. And you have two seconds, maybe three. to kill him. He's not processing all of that fast enough to go, there he is, bang, and kill him. He goes, oh, okay, Turkey, okay, one more step, and then I'll pull it, and then the turkey's gone, you know. But here's the deal.

After all of that, we get back, we're rushing, it's the last morning, we got to get to the airport, and I'm like, we got to shoot this gun because he's shooting my gun. And I'm going to shoot the gun because I want to see if my gun's off. So I set up a target, 30 yards, pull the trigger. Smoke it. It's got a red dot on it. Yeah, red dot. And so I got this box that I unfolded, so it's super long.

I just drew a bunch of black circles on it. And the way I put up against the tree, one is like 30 inches off the ground, and then other black circles, like, at ground level. I said, all right, sit down and shoot that top circle. He shoots it, the whole pattern's on the bottom circle, like at least two feet low. And I didn't have him repeat it because he's shooting my TSS ammo at the bottom. 12 bucks every time he pulls the trigger. And, but the best I can figure, you guys can, you know, give me your opinion on this. But I know that with a pistol, when I start missing the target, you know what I'm doing?

Is I'm pushing into that gun and I'm missing low because I'm like anticipating a recoil. So I'm pushing the gun and pushing the barrel down. And that's why you miss low. Because usually like if someone that has a real bad flinch or a jerk, right, they're like pulling the gun left or right. Like Aright, he usually is going to jerk it right, left, he jerks it left, or maybe up a little bit. But I feel like here

he was sort of preloading. Connering the recoil. Couting the recoil. And before he got the trigger to break, his gun was, you know, at 30 yards, he was two feet low. She had him aimed two feet above the head of the turkey? Well, I mean, had we gone right back out,

yeah, we maybe would have had to do that. He didn't troubleshoot these misses until after the fact. Yeah. Yeah. phenomenal show phenomenal I want to wrap it up with this I feel bad because I think about

all the people out there that have had experiences like that and without diagnosing that their friends just go you're a shitty shot bud

and they believe it and no one like fixes it and they go through their life being like oh man I'm a shitty shot maybe they quit hunting or whatever it is but like

then they're put a name to the problem Yeah, like it's fixable, right? Like, do the old thing where you get your buddy, and then he either loads or doesn't load the shotgun for you, and it hands it to you, and it has you shoot at the target, and then when he gives you one that's empty, and, you know, you pull the trigger and go,

ah! And jump. Then, you know, you got a little bit of a flinch. Last thought about Illinois turkey hunting is that one o'clock cutoff. You got to quit at one. Yep. Just changes it. It's humane.

It's more humane for humans. Yeah, because you get a nice nap in. I used to be against it, but now I think I'd like it because you just concentrate all your effort and half a day and not worry about the rest. I don't like that. I tell you what. I mean, it gets light to the time it gets dark. Yeah. But like you said, often if you're hunting the whole whole day like that, you do come in, you take a little break.

Start losing your mind. Yeah, for sure. You got to use toothpicks to keep your eyelids up. Dinner at 10 o'clock at night. It's all supposed to be. brutal. Oh no, we were in bed at like 839 every night. It was beautiful. Anyway, so keep an eye and an ear out

from when we start talking about next year's TRCP Turkey Hunt. It's going to be fun and phenomenal. All right, Jordan Sillers, what's the new in your neck of the woods there? Jordan. Oh, man. Well, I'm glad you asked Steve. Blood Trail Season 2

is out now. First episode is out. We're going to be releasing them every Thursday over the next eight weeks. So if you didn't catch it last season, Blood Trails is our true crime podcast about hunters and anglers. So we cover stories where people outside get in some pretty serious trouble. So we got a pretty interesting lineup this season from all around the country. We have people who were killed, murdered, people who disappeared without a trace. So I think I hope people enjoy it. And tune in.

I thought of you today and I was reading an article about a diver that just found a family that had been missing since the 50s. Oh, man. In a lake or? They went out to cut Christmas tree boughs to make wreaths outside of Portland. And a diver just found their car. Wow. They had kind of known a little bit about what had happened because they found a couple of the family members dead in the river. Like in 59 or something like that.

So, and the car had never turned up. So one theory was that the car went into the river. But there was like a big manhunt and a big search. And now a diver found the family car and more human remains. That's wild. Made me think about you. Yeah. Well, isn't that funny that's how people think about you now?

I know, I know. You'd see my inbox. The worst news I read. No, thank you. Jordan. Jordan Sillers. I bet he'd like to hear about this. It's great.

I bet that catch is fancy. It's great. You know, in TV, it's kind of universally accepted that season three of a show is the best. That's the peak. I don't know there. Where your characters are established, your storylines are colliding. Just the whole thing is sort of matured. You haven't had to recycle anything yet?

Season three is the pinnacle. So as good as Blood Trails is in season two right now, season three, it gets even better. I usually feel like by season three on TV shows, I don't watch serial shows because of this reason. I can start smelling them writing it. I can smell them writing it. Like they're predictable? I can smell them trying to keep it going. They're past the original idea.

Not a whiff of that in blood trails, though. No. It's not a serial drama. That's like a thing, right? For sure. I don't necessarily agree. Because most, a lot of my favorite TV shows, I think their best seasons are like four. and five. But I do think

season three is, that's a pretty good theory. That's something to think about, though, for the audience. One case and you do like 20 episodes on one case. So we are this summer planning a three or four. We haven't decided yet. Miniseries on one case. Really? Wow.

Yeah. Is it about when my fish got stolen? You're familiar with it. No. No, we're going to do. And we talk to them, actually, these guys who got stuck over in Turks and Kekos. because they had ammo and their luggage. We did, but we interviewed them

when they were still stuck on the island, so they had to be kind of careful about what they shared and what they didn't. Now they're home, you know, spoiler alert, I guess. Huh, there's enough there for three episodes? Yeah, I talked to be possible. Listen, listen, I talked to the guy who was in prison over there for eight months.

This prison was declared by the UN to be a human rights violation. Wow. I talked to him for five hours. There's some crazy stories from a Turks and Kekos prison, as you might imagine. So there's plenty there for a little mini series. And your new season's off to you, a strong start. Yes, yes.

Episode one is out. It's about a hunter up near Helena, so this neck of the woods who was murdered. Chopped up too. Yeah, back in 2011, and his remains were found in two separate locations. and so lots you know that that story is a lot of twists and turns in that one you think you know what's happening

and then it's you're not expecting what's what's about to happen some real characters yeah my daughter and I listened over the course of the last 24 hours and we enjoyed it it was a good episode good yeah thank you all right Phil corrections

corrections corrections the winner of correction this week or win a Moultry Edge 3 Pro Trail Camera plus, and here's the important part. Plus a one-year subscription. That's what matters. Man, I got mine recently. I didn't even know I could do this.

I just need to get better at knowing my products. I got mine rigged up now than the ones that I have the new ones, where it only takes a picture of a deer or a turkey. Yeah. Have you turned off squares yet? That's interesting. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But you could do that with the other ones.

Trassers walking around. Yeah, what if a chupacobber comes by? What if a big foot comes by? That's why I like the feature in theory, but in practice, do you really want to tell your camera if something earth shattering? If there's a setting like deer turkey or something crazy. Yeah, you could miss one of the coolest things here. Like an alligator walks by. Yeah.

Or like a chupacabra with an alligator. Oh, my God. Yeah, I guess I'm taking a chance in missing that. Yeah. That's a That is that Then even how you can turn off squares Mm-hmm There's a grid

Yeah And if there's like areas that are always giving you false trips Like if you got like birds fly by and trip You can be like well I'm gonna shut those squares off But what if a chupacabre comes through those squares? Flying chupacabre Yeah On the contrary

What if you see Steve walking through there? Yeah what if like a naked old man walked by Now Yanni doesn't have to subject himself to See in that Yeah, that's true But there might be some things you don't want to see. You won't be able to unsee. It's like an Eldridge horror.

So the winner of this week's correction in the week can sort through these conundrums on their own when they get their camera. Whether or not you want to get specific with integrated AI technology or whether you want to just see every crazy naked old man and chupacabra out there. It's up to you.

Okay. This is one of those ones we've got to, lot of corrections on the subject of the Savo man eaters. These two lions that kept eating a bunch of people. So many people in fact that they shut down construction of a railroad. We looked at a great

painting where the lions are eating a dude's foot. That was a great painting. And a lot of people wrote in. They think that the lions, I said 140 people. Well, that's what was in the book, the original book. It seems like the lions probably ate closer than 40 people.

Closer to 40 people. There's a couple little interesting, and again, a correction can be like missing information. A couple interesting tidbits. When Rinder Pest came through Africa and started killing, like almost wiped out Kate Buffalo, right? So this is also during the Render Pest epidemic when prey species were in massive decline. Do you want to explain Render Pest real quick? You should. I know it's a cattle disease that a bunch of, that a bunch of animals,

Africa caught when it came in on cattle. But no, the show can't go on forever. Well, I just can't never end. That detail, like, I think people would have not understood what was going on. A disease came in on cattle and wiped out tons of African wildlife, including was devastating for Cape Buffalo. So these lions were potentially low on food because of the Rinder pest epidemic, killing all the wildlife. They probably had some dental injuries. That's supposed.

And here's the other thing, is that while they were working on the railroad and also just because of cultural practices, there were more human corpses out on the landscape in those days than there are today. So a lion could get a taste for eating folks just from that. It'd be like if we, you don't buy that? No, then why wouldn't they just look for corpses? They wouldn't be like, oh, I'm going to go get like a live human. I don't, I'm just not buying, like. Sure. All right.

Bro, he's not buying that part. Either way, that's a correction. The meat of the correction being 40, not 140. That's fair. And they, I read some of the studies that he sent and they basically are looking, because they have the remains of these lines, they're looking at their hair and bone collagen. And they can look at sort of the. chemical signatures of their diet and they show like you could see like month by month how how much more of their diet was humans oh really yeah is one of the lions said like in the final months of 1898 one of the lions peaked at roughly 30% of its diet as humans wow ye um okay i brought up

hunters. I was saying that firearm enthusiasts, shooters, could start a class action lawsuit and sue the government for making suppressors hard to get. And the class action lawsuit would be that the government made us all go deaf.

I was just trying this out. I wasn't like, you know what I mean? I wasn't, I hadn't taken steps to initiate this class action lawsuit, but I was musing about the class action lawsuit. An attorney rode in, and he basically is saying, good luck with that. Hearing protection is widely available.

The possibility of hearing loss is widely documented. You don't have to go shoot your gun. It's kind of your problem. He thinks that this class action lawsuit is doomed to fail. Interesting conversation we had earlier. in regards to this, one of our employees who is in the military, mm-hmm, there was a company that provided hearing protection to everyone. They all, and this guy said, they all still ended up with hearing damage,

despite having hearing protection. So, and there was some liability on the part of the manufacturer. So despite the fact that hearing protection is widely available, that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to prevent hearing loss. He says the actual cause of the hearing law. is that we made decisions to fire guns without wearing readily available hearing protection. Since hearing protection is readily available at nearly every sportsman's shop, each of us had ample opportunity to prevent hearing loss.

I'm not writing this because I oppose the idea. I'm writing this with institutional knowledge of the legal world and would hate to see someone waste their money or time exploring such a farce. Farse. I think it's mean. Yeah, when your lawyer tells you Asquire Keep your lawyer says your case is a farce

You're in trouble If you decide to pursue this though Steve You'll have a lot of backers I don't know if this crossed your desk But you talking about this when viral on TikTok Got half a million views 20,000 likes Oh

So people are like yeah that's Steve Ronella We could win this thing I'll do a lot of social media This guy's got a great lawyer name though Yeah Esquire Yeah Dylan T Newkirk Esquire.

All righty, our next correction comes for me. He writes in, I'm a balustician who specializes in small caliber internal ballistics. It's a fascinating feel. Are you just going to seriously just breeze past that he's a balustician? Yeah, because that's cool. I didn't know what was a thing. No, it's great. No, that's why I'm reading this.

That's why I'm reading his introduction word for word. Well, I would have gone, I'm a balustician. Yeah. Like, you want to talk about bona fides. And I like his specialty in small caliber internal ballistics. The hell's he? Yeah. Internal ballistics is from the ignition to the muzzle, which is fascinating. He says it's a-tell-tall-the-truth you think? You think he's lying.

He says it's a fascinating field, which is, in general, poorly understood by most gun owners. His name's G-off. Yeah, I like this guy. In that episode, when we're discussing suppressors, I sort of offhandedly at the end made a very dry joke that there's someone out there working on quiet gunpowder. And so he wrote in to say that that's impossible. He says, the noise generated by a gunshot comes from two things.

The rapid expansion of gases and the supersonic crack of the projectiles that breaks the sound barrier. There really isn't a way to make an inherently quieter chemical propellant as it's the gas expansion and subsequent release of pressure that makes the noise. It's essentially a very high-pressure version of popping a balloon. And then he goes on, he goes on to say that even air guns are loud. When you get up to the larger air rifles, the most powerful air guns can do about 6,000 PSI at the chamber. Your average 6-5 Creedmoor has a chamber pressure of 10 times that and 2 to 3 times that at the muzzle

depending on powder charge, bullet weight, and barrel length. The only way to mitigate this is to use a suppressor to slow down gas expansion. Now you're just letting go of the balloon instead of popping it, which is a great, great illustration. Aside from that, make sure you're using ammunition that gets full powder burn before the bullet exits the tubes, short barrels, especially on ARs,

are notorious for being mini flashbangs as the last of the powder charge is burned externally. It really doesn't make it quieter, but it does cut down on how conclusive the shot is and micro tbis are cumulative. So what's a TBI? Traumatic brain injury. Oh.

There's the study, there's a story in the times like a couple months ago about how, um, how much brain damage is done like shooting pistols indoors. And it was, I mean, I don't remember any details. Like from the concussion. Yeah, just like micro concussions hitting you all the time. See, I don't do that. That must be why I was smart. Yeah.

Hmm. It seems like this guy's telling you you made a really bad joke. Yeah, yeah, I know. I rewatched it to make sure that I... You did. The delivery was... God, Randall's sensitive. Well, it's just like...

Let's go to the vote. I was like, how bad was my delivery that that wasn't understood as a joke? But nonetheless, I'm glad this guy wrote in because I like his style. Well, I'm voting for him because I like it that he's a balustician. Yes. I like that he's an old man who still puts two spaces between period. and capitalized word of the next. I'm glad you caught that, Spencer. Yeah, I always appreciate

seeing that. I don't think you can vote for him for that reason. No, I'm just saying I'd like that. This person learned to type on a typewriter. I'm not voting him for that reason. Okay. Can you make a speak and tell us to do that? Okay, corrections. The vote. The vote. Sovill man eaters. Three votes.

Wow. Okay. Class action lawsuit. Not going to work is what a zero votes. Zero votes. Randall being dumb like Randall's delivery Clear winner

Clear winner clear winner Yeah at first when I read Because his subject line is low volume powder And I was like man This is gonna be really interesting I thought he was talking about Like the volume of powder in a case

Oh gotcha And then I realized it was about my bad joke Yeah Uh Enjoy your camera Um And your subscription Maltry camera

And a subscription Thank you very much I'm Luke Wilson. Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind, and now I've got my own show. So if you're tired or lazy takes, if you want honest conversations,

join us each week. Film Never Lies, available on all TSN platforms in the IHeartRadio app. On blood trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bed,

and there was a full of blood. Oh my God. he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there,

but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwoods. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest. Somebody somewhere knows something.

I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, Iheart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. A couple listener emails. Guy wrote in, um, day. his wife makes him go to Greek Orth. See, this is terrible, but I'm going to read it anyways. He's Roman Catholic, and he says, when we go to my church, you know,

church service is 45 minutes. He's home for kickoff. He says, his wife is Greek Orthodox, and he says they get a little carried away. He's been listening to the podcast in there, because he's got these new hearing aids that blew too thin, so no one knows what he's doing.

They don't even know that he, they don't think he's listening anything. He's piping in on his hearing aids. But he says now and then he's in there smirking. You can't say this guy's name or his wife's going to find out. No, no, no. He told his wife. Oh, he told him. That might have given. Yeah, he didn't say his name because then the

preacher might be. Yeah. No, he confessed to his wife. Since it was obvious, I had no painful expressions on my face and was smiling from time to time. Yeah, but we don't want to get into trouble at church. No, no. Two hour service. Two-hour service to that church. He felt like he needed to have more

painful expressions. That's what he's saying? Okay. Yeah. It didn't have his usual scowl. Be even worse. It was a two-hour service with a gobbler right outside the church. I know.

And then you couldn't hunt at Mississippi because it'd be against the law, as covered on the news show. Another guy wrote in, just to make it real quick, he used to have been struggling on what do with his remains. I've talked about that I would like my remains hauled out in the mountains where they could be eaten by a bear. He had an idea, which is very interesting because the problem of my idea is then you got to task your family members with

like carrying your carcass around. Yeah. And then probably becoming a future episode of blood trails. Yeah. His idea, you just get cremated. And then mix it in and put it at a black bear bait station. So that way you can be eaten by bears very conveniently. Yeah.

I wonder if you went the green burial route and you went through that paperwork or whatever. And then instead of doing the bearer, You just ended up at the bait station kind of whole like you want to be like if that would pass. But if you did that and then a dude killed a bear at that bait station and then he learned he ate you, he's going to be not happy. Yeah. That's okay. Yeah. Whatever.

They have little trees you can buy where you add like the compost to it. You're supposed to be cremated remains. So then you're like growing that tree and then someone could put a tree stand in it someday. That's a great idea. It's an option. Lots of things do with your body. I talked to a guy up in Maine, a canine handler for search and rescue. He told me that their dogs can smell, they smelled some like bear scat or coyote scat.

And they signaled on it because they could smell the human that they'd eaten. Wow. So it had gone through the digestive tract and the dogs could still smell it in that scat, which I thought was pretty impressive. Blood Trails. Episode two coming out this Thursday. Oh, good. This guy's a pro. There you go.

Oh, man. Slip the net. That would be good. But you know what? You guys are just commenting on how good his idea is. He has a question at the end of his email. His question is that he knows. I was so blown away by the idea.

He knows that there's going to be other critters coming in there to eat his remains like raccoons. And he doesn't like raccoons for some reason. And so he wants to know how to. keep raccoons and other pests away from the bear bay and only let the bears eat it. I don't know. Hang that stuff up. You gotta go all in a way that you can't. I say you shouldn't be against the raccoons.

They're critters too. Let them eat some of you and spread you around the woods a little bit. You know, like what's the problem with the coons? Just give it to clay and have clay put it and you'll have eight bears eating it. Yeah, but what happens if the raccoons really get after? it and you're like clean it out you're like oh what was the deal with so and so he's like oh well his final

wish was to be eaten by bears and then you're like well he was mostly eaten by raccoons but one bear did come in you know it takes some of the romance out of it I think that if you go a thin like you get your body back and you

put it the ashes at a low ratio or ground up however you do it if you get it ground up and mix it in a lot and just make sure you got a lot of bait, everything's going to partake. You're going to have ravens flying around with you in them, crows flying around with you in them. Which is pretty romantic if you're just going everywhere. Yeah, you're all, your meso predators, big.

Yeah, it's great. Etiquette, yeah, an etiquette, etiquette, etiquette. Thank you. Okay, turkey hunting. And I exclusively hunt public land in Virginia and a lot on the national forest. A lot of the national forest out here butt right up against private. Owned by people who build little hunting cabins. Last springer found a great spot that butted up against private.

There's clearly marked public access. I'm not on anyone else's land. It's right off the main road. Went into hunt it opening morning, got there really early. Not long before gobbling time, another truck pulled in. So he must have still been like out getting ready in the parking lot or whatever. It was an old timer. He was friendly,

but said he owned the adjacent private land and he parks his truck there during the season to deter other hunters from. Sure. Yeah. Yes. His friend picks him up and takes him somewhere else. Just to help people connect the dots here. He's creating the appearance that someone's already there. This is not something that I've never heard of before.

Yeah. This old man did not invent this. I'm sure someone in this room has done this. Yes, maybe. He has to exchange numbers and said, would love to know if you get one. I hunted it anyways that day and killed a nice gobbler. Now, after him telling me he's trying to keep people out of there,

I wasn't really keen on letting him know that I got one. A year later, the day before opening day, this year, after having not heard from this guy in over a year, wouldn't know him from Adam. He texts me. asking where I'm going in the morning. Not as though he'd like to tag along, but just wants to know where I'm going.

I know I'm not entitled to let him know that I'm hunting the land adjacent to his. I get sharing info, so we're both not pulling up to hunt the same spot. But he's not buying that that's where this guy's going with it. He's just like trying to keep tabs on this guy. I don't appreciate another hunter trying to keep track of where I'm going. I don't really trust him either,

since he's trying to keep people out of public land. I'm kind of at a loss, what to do. Should I just not respond? Should I tell him to go kick rocks? Should I just tell him the general area I'm going to? Hmm. Hmm. I would not respond.

Well, maybe you should respond because you never know when you might need to get on that guy's land to like retrieve a bird or who knows. You could get in a pickle and need his help or something. I don't know. I'd just text him two days later and say, sorry, didn't see this. Got one.

Got one. And then sent him a smiling picture of you in a different place. It's a tough one. Yeah, it's tough one. It's not tough. There's so many right answers. It really comes down to how he's perceiving the whole situation. No, no, I'm not saying how to be, I'm not saying how to be friendly.

I'm saying, how would you hand, like, would you share with him? You know, would you share with them to say, you know, I'm not sure where I'm going to be hunting. I've been thinking, though, that the, the. The move of trying to create the feeling that someone else is there doesn't sit well with me. Right. Yes. Which is like, is that the thing that you need to say? That's the rug.

The thing is, if you go like agro on the guy, he's probably going to come back at you, agro and like, seize your truck park there and then he's got a pro. You know what I mean? Oh, I wasn't going to suggest you go agro at all. I would say, use it to your advantage. and just become buddies with him and be like, oh, because you're doing this and I'm in on it. Like, I sort of, you know, I'm in on the thing. So you'd say, hey, partner, I'm hunting back in our little spot.

What can we do to make sure no one else does? Would you mind parking the truck in that spot again? That's what you do. I'm just saying there's the options, you know? But like the detail about this guy using a vehicle to keep people out of a spot is... But he's not keeping them out. No, not at all. It's subterfuge.

It's subterfuge. It's trying to persuade them not to go in there. For sure. And I mean, I've hunted spots like that. And when there's a truck already there, you're not going to stop. You're going to go to the next pull-off. There's a, there's a mindset. Like, for instance.

Um, you know, I've, I've, I've friends in Alaska that advocate on having a very brightly colored tent. They like a bright colored tent. Why? They don't want to be hidden. They want people to be like, ah, damn it. Yeah. There's dudes down there hunting. Mm-hmm.

Right. From the air, you can see, you can see. Yeah. So if they said, well, what I do is I set brightly colored tents all over the place. They'd be like, is it, is it wrong? Or is it just A dick move Yeah or just a move

A move Like is parking He's not If he was putting up a sign It says no trespassing That's flat out immoral That's immoral And illegal

I think in a lot of places Park in a car To create the illusion Of pressure I don't know that it's immoral It's just like It's a little move It's a move

I don't think it's immoral I think it is. I think there's a there's a Spencer? I don't, I'm not saying I like it. I just don't think it's immoral.

He's going through a lot. He's having his buddy pick him up. Like he's going through some steps. What do you think, Spencer? I wouldn't text this guy specifics. Is it immoral?

Is the neighbor being immoral? It wouldn't bother me that much. It's just like a little game. He's playing and he thinks it's going to, you know, give him a 10% chance more of killing something. I'm okay with it. But he's not,

I mean, correct me, if I'm wrong, but he's not hunting that area. He's just trying to keep people away from If he's hunting the area, it wouldn't... It's because he's not hunting the area. That's why it's a problem. If he was hunting... What's he supposed to do with his car if he's hunting the area?

He's trying to create a bumper between his... I understand that, but like... What Spencer's saying is this guy's do it? Like, what's the purpose of this guy's game? It's not to improve his odds. It's just to keep people out of it. He has the private land right there. That day he didn't hunt it.

But we don't know. it happens the rest of the season. Maybe he's got family coming in a week and he wants to hunt those birds that live behind his place. I do think it's immoral. I'll put, if we're judging it on moral or immoral, I would say immoral. What if I hung a sign up and said, the turkeys here are all dead? I'd be running in there. I don't like, I don't like messing with other people's hunts. Yeah, there's no reason to do my business, you do your business, and we accomplish. accommodate one another as best we can. I don't like messing with somebody else. Okay. That's good. Moral clarity. Thanks for help. Because that was waffling. Yeah. But are you then going to call him out on it?

Because you're not going to quit hunting that spot. I'm probably not going to call him out on it. But so you're then just going to go enjoy the fruits of his labor. I have nothing to do with it. You don't have to respond to it. If he asked me what I think about it. I don't want to get into a a confrontation with someone that I don't like I just be like this kind of a dick move whatever you know and then when he text you like hey buddy where you hunt and you just don't reply probably not I don't know I just like that's weird to me I don't know I just people just need to leave one another alone just less people please you know I don't know I just want to go turkey hunting I just want to go bear hunting and like brodie's in the same trailhead we can just say I'm

to go this way, you go that way. Whatever. I don't know. And I'd be like, no, I'm just leaving my truck here. All the games and subterfuge and everything. It just bothers me. Real strong moral clarity. I don't know.

So much of my worldview is relativist that it's fun to just dig in my heels sometimes. A hot tip on recovering lost arrows. We talked about this at least twice already about arrows being lost at public. archery ranges and what you should do when you find them or how to find them or how to get your arrows back. Well, this fellow wrote in, thanks to Tyler. He said, what he does is he writes his name and a phone number on his fletching. So when someone finds it, they can just dial him up.

And then keep it easy instead of having to meet up somewhere, he just says, hey, stash it in so-and-so spot at the range. And I'll grab it next time. happening in him all the time? Often enough, I guess. We got to put that one to rest. That's good. If it was about lost arrows in my yard, I'd be more interested. Yeah, but that's a simple, like, great solution to a problem.

I love it. That's true. We had a hot tip off on Medita radio where the guy said he puts a small reflective tape in front of his veins, and then he bought like a $12 u.V flashlight from Amazon, and you can see that thing from 50 yards away if you're pointing the flashlight in the right direction. Oh. That's where this all started.

Yeah. That's good. Randall. All right. I guess I'll put on my moral hat again. Yeah, I mean, this is big news. Last week, Republicans in the Senate voted to essentially kill the 20-year moratorium on this mine upstream of the Senate. the boundary waters, a potential mine upstream of the boundary waters.

It's basically bent over backwards to let a Chilean billionaire take minerals out of the ground and send them to be processed in China. So then when they ship them back as products, they can be American. There will be tariffs on our own stuff coming back to us. 70% of Minnesotans opposed to mine, 98% of the 675,000 public comments were opposed to it. dozens of hunting and fishing organizations were opposed to it. And then the way that they did this too, like there's a bunch of stuff you can get into here. The way that they did this was using the Congressional Review Act, which is a law.

It was passed in 96 that lets Congress sort of override or cancel regulations put in place by federal agencies. And they're supposed to do it within 60 days. and it had not been used very much. I think the first 20 years of its existence, it was used once. Then it was used. There were five of them during Obama. Zero successful uses because he vetoed them. And then Biden used it three times.

But of the 42 times, this has been used. 38 of them have been under Trump. So it's not just a change in like policy. Ever? Yeah. 38 out of the 42 have been have been so it's a change yeah it'll be some lawyer will be like hey you know we could try right and they're having some luck with it yeah and the thing about it is that you can't put the genie back in the bottle because once you use this act they can never make a rule that's

the agency can never come back and make a similar rule so it sort of does it forever like it just overturns the decision forever um the The mine's not a done deal. Like, they still have to do permitting. And permitting could be a bear that could, like, kill it. But, I mean, essentially the way this worked was this is a Chilean mining company. In 1966, they got mineral rights for this area. Their lease expired.

They renewed it. It expired again. They renewed it again. And then under Obama, it expired. And at that point, they basically said, you don't have a right to automatically renew this lease. we need to reevaluate the merits and risks of having this lease in place. And so they put a two-year moratorium in place so that they could do a study. Once Obama goes out of office, the billionaire guy in Chile, he basically kicks this right off.

And one of the weird things about this is in December of 2016, so right after the election, he buys a $6 million house in D.C. and rents it to Ivanka. Trump and Jared Kushner. It never goes on the market as a rental. He just buys it. They see it before the property is even closed and they move in. And they lived there through 20, 22, I think. It was a while.

Yeah. Yeah. And then he, like this guy has also met. He's met Trump before at a Patriots game because they're buddies with Kraft and Brady. But within weeks of the administration coming in, he starts communicating directly with Zinky and his staff. So all of a sudden, Zinke announces that the feds, like the decision that we could reevaluate this was bad. And he says, actually, we have to automatically renew the lease.

So just like a pivot sort of based on some strange legal technicality. So they reissue the lease. Zinky says that it deserves further study and then reissued the lease the next day. Meanwhile, the Forest Service under Sunny Purdue kills the study, even though he told Congress they would do the study. Long story short, Biden comes in. He cancels the lease and they finish this study and put in place a 20-year moratorium on mining. Trump comes back in. Zinky's now in Congress. And zinc, the guy who took over for Zinky at Interior, David Bernhardt, who's Trump's other secretary. of the interior in his first term. He is now working as a lobbyist for the Chilean mining company. And so Zinky, quite a nice little chunk of change. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard. I heard from one

source like $100,000 a month. I couldn't find documented proof of that. I saw some other reports that were like a couple hundred thousand a quarter. But I heard, yeah, I heard similar amounts to try to push this thing through. Just real quick. So people understand the time on we say a mine. People are familiar with the Boundary Waters, wilderness area. This is a mine that's going in upstream

of that in Superior National Forest. Superior National Forest, interestingly, was put in place by Theodore Roosevelt, I think, 1909. What they do is you're pulling a bunch of a rock up out of the ground that

once it oxidizes, it produces an acid. And I mean like like you know millions of like millions of tons. Yeah. And like I'll point out that the fact that like you're hearing a lot of people say, but the mind's not in the boundary waters. It's important that is upstream or will be. Yeah.

Because this type of mine, there's never been an example of this type of mine not resulting in. And this pollution. Like major pollution. Antifagast is the Chilean company. They just have in in. in January of this year, they have a copper sulfide mine in Chile that was, they just received a bunch of fines for violating water quality standards and monitoring. And yeah, it just seems like a bad actor that had some friends in the White House and they pushed it through. Like, I've also heard there

were a bunch of senators that were opposed to killing the moratorium. And they kind of got phone calls from the White House. And, yeah, basically Zinky whipped it up in the house and pushed it through, and Bernhard's been lobbying for it. And now the moratorium can't come back because they did it in this way. So for like a system in which we should have say in the management of our public lands, and you would hope that people can weigh in and make a difference in how their own public lands are managed, It's kind of just a big slap in the face.

Another interesting part of it is if you go back to last June when we were fighting the public land sell-off, after that fight, the story sort of came out about this grand coalition. And every time there's a big public lands fight, like when it happened under Jason Chaffetz, when it happened under Mike Lee, so Jace Chaffetz was like 2017 or something like that. Mike Lee last June both times it was like this proposal to sell three million acres of public lands in the West and the story afterward

comes out and it's like this coalition of sportsmen's groups and this like unusual mix of these like traditionally right wing and traditionally left wing voices come together in support of whatever in this case I mean

in this case these sort of like Hunter angler you know the hunter angler right leaning block couldn't deliver the goods I mean

this thing went on party lines dude like like all all these hunter angler base conservation organizations of which I'm a board of a board member of one could not turn Republican boats yeah yeah they're just like

No, and apparently. Like we're going with what the boss tells us on this one. And it was also like it was looking at times the vote looked good. The White House got involved in the vote. And then people chicken shit it out. And people that talked about, people that talked, there's even people, there's people that expressed knowing that they were voting wrong. They expressed that they were voting wrong but had to. With that kind of stuff like, it's just like, that kind of stuff's inferior.

And you can feel it in some of the statements afterwards that some of the politicians made. They were almost like apologetic about, you know, their justification for how they voted. The justification for how they voted is someone told them what to do. Yeah. And I will say like I've seen I've seen a lot of comments out there, like some from our audience taking shots at like the, like you'll a lot of times you'll hear people say this isn't a partisan issue. Right. Like this is not a partisan issue We just need to get it done

And to say something is not a partisan issue Isn't to like say that both sides are the same on this issue It's to say it's to give space and say like You can be a Republican and do the right thing When it comes to this right like not in this case Well yeah I mean it's not on this one It's like an aspiration but what I'm saying is like it's not it's not a judgment That like this was definitely a partisan vote but like

there are Republicans out there or people who don't identify as Republican, but they might be conservative, whatever, you can be opposed to this mine no matter what walk of life you're in, but like your representatives aren't falling through on it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, for the general population, it's not partisan, but it certainly was partisan when the, but when it came time of boat. Yeah, absolutely. So it's not like when you say something's, when you say conservation is a non like should be a nonpartisan issue it's not exculpating

like shit like this it's it's meant to say like people from both parties can agree on this but whether or not their elected officials are going to do the right thing is something entirely different on the term in terms of saying stuff like that I don't want to spend

all day on this one this is a major issue on terms of saying it's like that when people will say to me or they'll say whatever they'll say well I don't want to get political. I don't want to be political, but it's like, everything is political. The fact that Superior National Forest is there in the first

place, how is Superior National Forest there? Because Theodore Roosevelt wrote it into existence. How did he have the authority to write it into existence? Because he won the election. The political one. Like, everything is political. Suppressers is political.

Jordan's going to talk about Oklahoma releasing captive deer into the wild. I don't get political. It's political. Right. We're going to talk about the Colorado fur ban. Political. It just is. People that want to stay away from politics, like, I get the sentiment of what you're saying, but it's not how

things work. Oh, yeah, no. Like, yeah. I guess. But yes. On a non- When you say, when you say like conservation, this isn't a partisan issue. It means that people from both sides can agree on it. And it's giving space for that. It's not. The great American

outdoors. It's not like giving Republicans a free pass on cowtowing to the White House and pushing this through even though they know it's the wrong thing to do. Yeah, yeah. You're right. There are non, you know, there's talk right now, it seems goofy, but like putting Theodore Roosevelt just got leaked

the other day. Putting Theodore Roosevelt in the football Hall of Fame. Have you seen this? Mm-mm. Comes right on the heels of this Boundary Waters thing. So you're like basically shitting on the legacy of Theodore Roosevelt.

And then like a day later, it's leaked that like, we're going to put them in the football Hall of Fame. And, you know, he'd probably be like, yeah, if this is a tradeoff, I'll go the, I'll go with the preserving the boundary waters from acid runoff. Yeah. So I guess the last thing to say is just like, there's still stuff you can do. Like, when we take a loss like this, you still can. call up your representatives. You don't need an excuse to call up your representatives and

let them know. So if you, if you're, if you're how much good that. See how far that I'll get you on this one. Well, yeah. A lot of people did that. I know. But what, what else are you going to do? The state of Minnesota seems like they may have a move left to like prevent this. There's also Canada will be involved. They've said that they're going to resist this. Also local tribes. They have like some say in this as well. And so there's a few players who could maybe slow this down or stop it. Yeah, it's not a done deal. It'll move to the next steps.

It was just a disappointing vote. It was a disappointing vote because so many people, so many representatives on the, in this specific case, so many representatives on the Republican side signaled to conservation groups, signaled that they wanted to do the right thing and then ultimately admitted that they couldn't, which is like, you know. Like you said. had chicken shits.

Yeah, I guess as far as calling them, though, what I mean is like, if somebody does the wrong thing and then nobody burns their ass about it. Yeah. Like,

you want, listen, Buster, you want those people to, I'm mighty disappointed. You want those people in the office to be like,

shit, like people are pissed off about this. Yeah, this vote, this was an open book test. Like, the answer was so obvious that there shouldn't be mining here

because the public was so against it, the locals were against it, it, the history that these minds have. Like, it was clear that the answer is no, we don't allow this. And so I think it's fair for our audience to, you know, look at these politicians in the future. When Mr. politician campaigns on being an outdoorsman, a hunter, an angler, a conservationist, a public land advocate, it's reasonable to be like, I don't think you get a second chance on this. Like, you failed this open book test so spectacularly that I don't believe you. And the consequence of that is I'm not going to vote for you because of your track record

on like this exact thing. I don't say. You say that's a good segment, Randall. It's a good segment, Randall. A great wrap up for Spencer Newland. That's inspiring. There should be consequences when they mess it up that bad. That's it.

Yeah. You know what, man, I got to talk. I'm going to, I have an out. I got to speak in D.C. At an event, a dinner. I'm going to talk a little about the Boundary Waters. Yeah. Good.

I'm Luke Wilson. Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind, and now I've got my own show. So if you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week. Film Never Lies available on all TSN platforms in the IHeartRadio app. On blood trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker. I've seen something in the road.

I instantly thought it was a sleeping bed, and there was a full of blood. Oh my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors, where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't. This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions,

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Jordan. So. I should be doing this segment because I just came from Oklahoma yesterday. Yeah. We're doing that. I didn't see none of these deer. That's my neck of the woods. I didn't see none of these deer running around.

Well, there's only two so far. Yeah, no, every time I talk about this, I have a hard time believing it actually happened. But sure enough, it did. So back in 2024, so two years ago, the Oklahoma State Legislature passed a bill. I mean, speaking of, like, bad votes, this bill was passed almost unanimously in both the House and the Senate. and it established what was called the Chronic Wasting Disease Genetic Improvement Act. And the idea here is that we're going to breed white-tailed deer to be resistant to CWD. So there's a biologist from Texas A&M named Chris Seabury or C-Berry who basically discovered that if, and I forget the exact like allele at whatever.

codon but if deer have this they're resistant to CWD now they're not immune so they can still they call them durable durable right so they can still get it and that's that's a really key thing to understand here they're not immune from from CWD but they're more durable that's the fashionable word lately is durable yeah right so so and and what kind of advocates of this point to oftentimes is scrappy in sheep which is also a preon disease and it was eliminated through this kind of genetic breeding program, right? Obviously, you're really not comparing apples to apples in that situation because sheep are livestock, right?

They're in pens. It's a very controlled environment. The proposal here is to breed these deer to be genetically durable to CWD, and then we're going to release them into the wild to improve the genetics of the wild herd, which kind of sounds like it might work, but it's never been tried anywhere. The other really crucial thing is that you can't, the deer aren't tested for CWD before they're released. We don't know if these deer have the disease before they're released. And I've confirmed this with the head, the head veterinarian. No, that's true. Yeah. They don't know. For Oklahoma. They don't know. They don't know.

They weren't tested. And so, and I'm, I'm not 100% sure what it's like in Oklahoma. I can tell you in Texas, the deer breeders are like where seed, like if there's CWD in Texas, it's probably in those breeding facilities. So it's there, but these deer that are released, we don't know if they have it. And so they passed this bill in 2024. And I think like people weren't, I mean, maybe it's just me, but I was like, again, they're not going to actually do this. And the bill itself was very it's very hard to understand the bill as it was written Because it allowed the Department of Agriculture in Oklahoma to write the rules Basically the standard that they would use to release the deer but then it also had another line in there that said The Department of Wildlife Conservation so the people kind of supposed to be in charge of wildlife in the state

They have some kind of permitting authority it said they can charge charge a one-time permit fee. It didn't say they could create rules, but if you're charging a permit fee, then it's kind of implied you have the authority to create the rules by which you get that permit. But it was all very unclear. Fast forward two years.

In the original bill, it said the deer would be released between February and April of this year. The Wildlife Agency hadn't crafted any kind of permitting requirements or any kind of rules. They had started a survey to survey the genetics of the wild population. They hadn't completed that yet. But then we kind of got news about a month ago that one of these deer had actually been released. The Ag Department approved a release of one of these deer.

So this is, again, a pen-raised deer that hasn't been tested for CWD is now being released onto a low-fence property, where it can go kind of wherever it wants to go. And the public does not know where? I got a county. I can tell you it's a Wagoner County. I think that's how you say it. Was one of the deer.

I don't know where the second deer was released. And like from the breeders perspective, this is great because now our potential pool of customers is everyone. Any landowner in the state, it used to be you could only sell a deer to a high fence operation, which, you know,

There are lots of those in Oklahoma, not that many. Now, any landowner can buy a deer. Why you would want to is sort of beyond me. Because you can buy one of their crazy big box. One of their phony big box and then cut it loose on your place and act like you're doing it to help CWD. There's 750,000 deer in Oklahoma. These two deer, like, I'll be the first to admit. I'm no mathematician.

I'm no statistician. But they've cut two of these deer loose into a state with 750,000 deer. And they're like, this will help genetically with SWD. It's like, are you kidding me? We talked to Heffelfinger about this a while back. And he made that point. Like, you're never going to like spread that gene, effectively spread that gene through the entire population. But he also said, you don't know what else that gene could be responsible for.

Like, it could have all kinds of negative effects, too. So the Wildlife Commission held a hearing on this where they invited some scientists to present. One of them had put a model together of like, how many deer would we actually have to release in order to improve the genetics of the state? It was like 75,000 per year for 10 years straight. Wow. Basically just replacing the entire population. And even then, the genetic benefits you get start to degrade after you stop. releasing more deer. And this was also, you know, according to the scientist in their model,

they assumed kind of best case scenario, which is that captive deer will survive and breed at the same rate as wild deer, which I mean is kind of a big assumption, right? One of the craziest parts of this, go on. Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you the crazy. I'll tell you what I feel is crazy parts. So there's kind of a one more chapter to this is that the kind of sponsors of this program in the legislature were very frustrated with the wildlife agency for not moving forward with the survey. We're kind of dragging their heels, right, according to the sponsor. So this year, they proposed a new bill that would totally eliminate the wildlife agency

from this process. Like they would have no permitting role. They wouldn't be able to charge a permitting fee. Just totally remove them from the process entirely. So these deer, which, you know, wildlife in the state would be controlled by the Department of Agriculture. That bill, so two years ago the bill sailed through. This bill just failed in a Senate committee. It passed the House, went over to the Senate.

It failed in a Senate committee on a nine to three vote. And I was told that the kind of the public. Interest you might say in the program two years ago has then trickled Uh to now and Senators now are a little more hesitant to sign off on this and so it's possible that there's appetite to to to kind of get rid of the program entirely next year in a bill because you can't find You can't find a wildlife org I'm except to do deer breeders right you can't find a wildlife org that thinks it's a good idea no I love

that Boone and Crockett and Pope and Young are saying Oklahoma deer, there's a possibility of Oklahoma deer becoming ineligible for the books because they're genetically modified. Yep, yep. And it could expand, like, like, I live in Texas, neighbors Oklahoma. Yeah. If they, like, cross the border into Texas, now Texas deer or not, right? So it's, no one seems to really like this except for the deer breeders and their allies in the legislature. Well, one of the main, okay, one of the main, I'll choose my mom. words carefully here. One of the primary main

key main primary most important key individuals involved in this genetic, this supposed genetic durability issue prior to that work

had been on the war path against Texas's state agency about CWD because he felt that he felt that he felt that they were imperiling his land values by talking about CWD all the time. Okay?

Yeah. Then lo and behold, down the road. The other interesting thing is this is the biggest proponents from this, when I look around and get messages from friends and stuff, the biggest proponents of this are the same people that have always said it's a hoax. CWD is a hoax. Right. Then why do we need a solution? You're like, it's a hoax, but here's a solution. it's a hoax, but this will fix it.

It's like, hold on it. Is it a hoax? Or does this fix this? Or is this self-serving? Well, if you got to release 75,000 deer annually, someone's going to make some money. Wow. But it's so funny. It's like one minute, it's a hoax and it doesn't have any impact.

And the next minute, the industry is like, but wait a minute, it is a problem. And guess who's the solution? It's me. Right. Right. All these years you've blamed me. and now here I am with the fix. Right, right.

But you can, you can kind of, you can kind of see why, if you're not really paying attention to this issue, you're not in this, in the weeds on this, you're like, yeah, we breed, we like, we breed for certain traits in animals, right? Why wouldn't this work? And so you can kind of see why this program, the state legislators were like, okay, yeah, give it a shot, might as well. But now it sounds like they've been. And, you know, organizations, the sportsmen conservation organizations have been doing a lot of work in that legislature to educate the representatives there.

And it seems to be kind of taking hold. I'm going to paraphrase something from the conservation is Jim Posowitz. Jim Poswit, he made this point. I think he might have been on the show when he made this point. Or I was interviewing him or something. Either way, the late Jim Poswitz was saying, he was talking about the deer breeders. this idea of them trying to make giant megabucks and all this stuff. The reason they're doing that is because there's a societal belief in the symbolism of wildlife.

We have placed cultural value on deer. We've placed cultural value on the landscape, on nature's ability to make this creature, right? when one gets big it's celebrated but it's like a cultural value around wild places and wildlife and nature and they've and they kind of looked at this and they're like oh got it big antlers

yeah right that's what we want I mean they're like they kind of missed the parts about wildlife yeah they missed the parts about mystery the magic yeah like like the magic of a landscape producing these magnificent specimens. And they're like, oh, yeah, big old antlers.

I could probably do that better in my yard. But what makes those big old antlers valuable is the fact that they have cultural significance as wildlife. Meaning, if they went and found a way to make cows huge, okay? If they're like, this cow's way bigger. people aren't going to say like, oh, at that point, I would like to pay you $20,000 to shoot one of those cows. It would be, well, no, because that's livestock. I'm not going to pay you to shoot that.

Yeah. But they're like, no, but this has the appearance of this thing that has cultural value. I will sell it to you because it's got big antlers. And isn't that what's really all about? Right. Right. Right. Well, and that kind of takes me back to these, to the market for this, right?

Because there's there's two sides. There's people who want to sell them, but then they need to market. And and I just, I still don't understand. Maybe if you have a giant spread, thousands of acres, you might be interested in this. But if you have like 200 acres of low fence property, like, why would you want to buy what it's going to leave? People will do it. It's going to be in the next county. People aren't smart about statistics.

I don't. Why do they buy, why does my wife buy scratch offs at the gas station? She's an addict. Because she just has an undying faith in magic. And no amount of like, no amount of logic is going to dissuade her from buying scratchoffs with the kids. Well, maybe she does it for the entertainment value. Yeah. And I think that people will be entertained by like, they'll buy some deer and turn.

I don't know. It's just like nature isn't going to be good enough. you know who won't buy them as c wd deniers because they don't give a shit anyway no they will because they the yeah when i heard about this like first i was like oh that that's not a good idea but then shortly after that i had a tingle of satisfaction that someone felt like they were portray or like pursuing a creative solution because c wd feels like a thing that we're probably going to have to take a big swing at it and like every tool in the toolbox needs to be explored and nothing's working right and and

And like, I am satisfied to hear that someone was like, well, maybe this thing out of left field is the answer. And that other people did look into it and threw cold water on it, you know, at some point. But I'm happy that like, there are things behind the scenes that are, you know, beyond my awareness taking place trying to solve CWD. Agree. I totally agree. It's like, it's, again, I've made myself a thousand times on this show. I've made myself clear that like much to the annoyance. of certain friends of mine, the main thing I remain worried about.

The main thing is that, and it's never happened, but what scares me is the idea that there would be transmission to a human being. That scares me. Yeah. Right? That. This has nothing to do with that. This is not addressing that.

The other part is you have, like, I can't help but look at where it's coming from. Yes. It's coming from the community that has told us all along, there is no problem. So why are you all of a sudden interested in a solution? It's got to be that there's more to the story. You have cried from every rooftop. It's a hoax. There's no problem.

But now you want to fix it. I don't buy it. Something else is going on. That's a good way to end it. The whole thing? Yeah, let's go. Wrap it up. Shut it down.

Steve, you're in now Wisconsin. Two weekends go for the youth turkey hunt, weren't you? I was there two weeks ago for the youth turkey hunting. Let me tell you why I go there. Because I love my friend Doug. Yeah. Also, I would go there early on because Wisconsin doesn't have an age restriction. I have three kids.

They're spread out. So I could go there and mentor my, for instance, my eight-year-old daughter, turkey hunting, where she would be literally. sitting in my lap as we turkey hunted. And then Doug could hunt with one of my other kids or we would team up. And it became a family tradition. I think we went eight years. We've been there eight years in a row for youth turkey season.

It's a family tradition. My kids have come to love Doug like a like an uncle, like a brother. I thought you'd say like a landowner. No. They're not, that's not a concept. To set the stage before we move on, it was something your kids kind of, as far as hunting turkeys. It was something they kind of graduated into. Yes, they did. And they all spent time. They all spent time.

They all had to spend time just going and hanging out. Before I said it was time. And I have generally said it was time to like sit on my lap and turkey hunt when they're eight. That's my not, I don't want to call it arbitrary. That's a number I've arrived at. Where you felt comfortable. That's a number I've arrived at. That's a number I've arrived at. Well, that sets up this story here. Pat Durkin wrote about it at the Meteor.com. That same weekend, Steve was there. There was an accident in Wisconsin where a

meant a 35-year-old, sorry, 35, 38, I already lost my numbers for him. 38? An adult. 30-something. 34. Well, 34. 34.

34. I think it's important to know his age. 34-year-old was hunting with a 3-year-old mentoring a 3-year-old that weekend. And they, supposedly, aimed and shot a 45-year-old that was mentoring a 9-year-old. With a 12-gauge.

A 7-year-old. It's important to point out. Yeah, they hit two. Hit the mentor and the kid. A mentor and a kid hit a mentor to a kid. No, no, no. It was 9-year-old. I think we'll just get a little hung up on the details here. Yeah.

The three-year-old matters. The three-year-old, that matters. Yeah, the three-year-old, that matters. That matters big time. And the 12-gauge shotgun. He's shooting a 12-gauge. Three years old, shooting a 12-gauge for mentored youth turkey season. Okay, so, let's get the facts.

Yeah. Hit the facts. Youth turkey hunting weekend in Wisconsin. The three-year-old is with the 34-year-old. They shoot two other hunters. that are out in the field together with a 12-gauge shotgun. At 35 yards. At 35 yards.

Luckily, no one is fatally hurt. I think as of the writing of the article, the 7-year-old kid was still in the hospital, but his mentor had been released. Actually, they're not releasing gender, so we don't know in the genders of these hunters. But the people that had been released, shot, the mentor had been released, the kid was still in the hospital, but non-fatal injuries.

So that's really all we know. They're not releasing a lot because obviously they're going to continue to investigate this situation because, as you might imagine, there's a lot of questions. I have a lot of questions. My first thing, when I read it, when I was assigned this little book report here, was like, my God, how are you really going to make a three-year-old hold and aim and fire a 12 gauge. That's why I smell a fish. Yeah. I smell bad fish.

I read the comments. I read the comments. Oh, that's the only thing I consider it. I read the comments on our web page. Do people smell a fish? Oh, yeah. 75% of them are like, that three-year-old didn't pull that trigger. The mentor was just out with a three-year-old and was like, oh, this is a way for me to get another bird.

100%. I'm not buying it. This is like a level up of white steer tank. I'm not buying that that three-year-old was wielding a 12-gauge. No. Three-year-old was probably shitting its pants. Yeah, do they wipe their own butt? Three-year-old when they're taking a nap.

I don't raise the child. Some do. I mean, they're not doing a good job. They don't like get up and fix breakfast. They rarely have complete sentences. We should have brought a three-year-old in and asked him some questions. Hey, hey, just so you know, I tried to get one. I posted this morning.

Craigslist. On the company slack under the Bozeman channel, I asked, does anyone have a three-year-old kid that could bring to the office to be part of the new show episode of around 2.30? It's now 315. They'd have to be on camera, but wouldn't be required to do much talking on and saying hi. I'd like to have them to show the audience the size and stature of a three-year-old to show context around a hundred. We should have a whole panel of three-year-olds in it. This would be helpful for me because when I read the age of a child,

it doesn't do much. I mean, I had the same. They came out of a vagina three years prior. Yeah. They're just not that big yet. No.

I know, but I just, I can't really call to mind a three-year-old. Okay. A three-year-old. A three-year-old would, let me give you, for instance,

a three-year-old would walk into a lake and shit their pants. Yes. You wouldn't even think, you wouldn't even like think much about it. The request. of a 12-gauge shotgun would do great bodily harm to a three-year-old.

Yeah, it would. Jordan said only some three-year-olds wipe their butt. I want to amend that. Only some three-year-olds sit, like, aren't in diapers. None of them wipe their own butt. That's got me to make this totally scandalogical. If you have a three-year-old in your life, you are having, not daily,

but you are having multiple times per week. encounters with their feces. Getting under your finger nails. It's like that's what we're talking about. You get to where you'd basically, you're so used to it, you would eat it. According to CDC data. Am I wrong? I wouldn't eat it, but I had it under my fingernails plenty of tabs.

According to the CDC, a typical three-year-old boy in the United States of America weighs 31 to 33 pounds. It's like a big turkey. Hold on. Giant. Okay, we've established that. It's like a very, very, very small thing. I was telling the story to my daughter, Ina, who I think she was probably 10-ish when this happened, but she was still scared.

She'd been shooting 22 a bunch, but she knew the 4-10 had some recoil. And one day I was like, look, she'd shot it once, some tears had come. I'm like, no big deal. we'll come back in a couple months. So time passes, we're back there and I said this time sit in my lap. Well, I made the mistake of like leaning against her back.

To solidify her shoulder? Yeah. And so her shoulder wasn't allowed to move back. And again, just a little 410 and we were just shooting a field load, not a turkey load. But that was enough to like more tears and to like put that away

for another six months. So again, like you can't Imagine what a 12-gauge turkey load would do to a three-year-old. Here's another way of putting it. This hunt, this whole incident, they're so young, they will have no recollection. None ever. When you think back to your first memories, your first memories are like four, five, six. They will have no recollection.

I'm all for this dude bringing that child out. Yeah. But I think after this incident, you would have to just say, for the record here, I was wielding that shotgun. This is not a conversation about mentored hunting. And I was... This should be a conversation about right here at me. And he was shooting at movement.

Yeah. I'm Luke Wilson. Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind, and now got my own show. So if you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week. Film Never Lies, available on all TSN platforms in the IHeartRadio app. On Blood Trails, the stories don't end when the hunt is over. They just get darker.

I've seen something in the road. I instantly thought it was a sleeping bed. And there was a pool of blood. Oh, my God, he doesn't have a hit. Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and and silence. Indications were he should be right there, but he wasn't.

This season, we're going deeper, from cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwards. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest.

Somebody somewhere know something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, IHeart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's a detail that I found that this person did not have Hunter's safety. They had a like military exemption. Exemption, yeah, which, you know, it's something to think about. But now there's all this.

conversation. Should we change, like, will Wisconsin change the law? Is it too early to go? And I'm like, don't confuse this for a mentored hunt situation. Yeah. It's not a mentored hunt situation. That kid did not identify that target and aim that gun and pull that trip. Yeah, I think one of the best things that's happened in the last whatever decade, maybe 20 years, however long it's been going on, is that a lot of states have gotten past this minimum age thing, 12, 14, and, and, you know, But I do see pictures of like, you know, I see pictures of some ages. And I'm like, man, I don't think they can even comprehend what they're doing. Six year old shooting a 200 inch white tail.

Like I don't know that they comprehend what they're doing. I even had questions. And I don't, I would never tell people what do like as I, it's like I support the idea that's a family decision. I started my kids hunting turkeys at eight years old. And I did not think I waited too long. I worried that I did it too early. I never felt that I waited too long at eight. Yep.

I think that's a good, good age. Never felt that I waited too long. Yeah. And the way it works here in Montana is they can hunt deer at 10 and I think that's just about right. Yep. I've never, I would never complain about the 10 year old law here.

When I was growing up in Michigan to hunt deer with a gun when I was a kid, no one paid attention to this rule. Everybody broke it because it was so ridiculous. You had to be 14. Yep. I paid attention. That's too late. That's too late.

Yep. Three too early. All right. Paddlefish time. Yeah, we're going to cut some stuff off the end. Yeah, I'll try and move. No, no, man. Hit the paddlefish, then I want to hear, you know, the Spencer report.

He's been living under a rock. Spencer report. Spencer report. There's been some sick puppies doing some sick shit on Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri. Multiple live paddlefish have been discovered with, you got the pictures up, Phil? Are we getting there? Multiple. Multiple.

Profane messages. I'll let you read them if you can make them out. These are the pictures that I was sent. This is how they were cropped. You can kind of see what that one says. So FU, FMDC, which is Missouri Department of Conservation, Conservation. I saw a picture of one that had paddlefish have this long snout called a Rostrum. I saw one that had been cut to kind of look like a,

those soft what do they call them soft soft tooth really like disgusting yeah I don't know if we've got that picture or not no just here's someone etched 2021 into a paddlefish so uh they're cutting it in with a razor blade yes yeah some of them are found alive but mutilated um

it's just like very sick uh examples of like animal cruelty um the local reaction the regional reaction around lake of the Those arcs has obviously been pretty strong with shock and outrage. Local tackle shop managers said he'd never seen anything like this. There's concerns that it could hurt tourism in the area. The investigation, they haven't found out anything yet,

but they're looking at this as intentional acts of animal cruelty and vandalism against the species, possibly motivated by grievances against state conservation rules. Well, if you're writing. Yeah. FU, Missouri Department of Conservation, I have a feeling that that's not possibly motivated by animosity. They're mad about the regulatory structure. Sure. And maybe something about keeping paddlefish.

Yeah, they're mad about the regulations. Ro, you know, there's been plenty of examples of these fish being poached for their row, but this is not, this isn't that. Authorities say they're making some progress. Public's encouraged to report tips. and a coalition of over a dozen fishing guide services in the area, Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, they've all pledged to chip in rewards that are exceeding $15,000 right now leading to a conviction. With that kind of money, if someone saw something, someone's probably going to report something. Yeah, it's a win-win.

Like, if you knew who was doing this, one, they got to quit. Yeah. So you can help them make them make them. quit by turning them in and then you get 15k and scratch yeah but it's gross and whenever something like this kind of thing this is a little this is a pretty pretty strong example of it but like I always worry like when a goose is like walking around a local lake with an like a arrow sticking out of it um like it gets me worried about the perception of hunters and in this case the perception like the general perception of fishermen like just

a week ago maybe. Um, they found a mule deer dough dead in Roundup, Montana that had been shot with, uh, blow gun, a blow dart killed it. Hmm. Um, it's like that kind of thing. Like, I think, the worry is it's like, oh, those hunters, you know, kind of thing. And it shouldn't, it's, we, we shouldn't have to defend ourselves against stuff like this. It's crazy.

No, it's kind of gruesome photos, man. Yeah. And the things you're talking about like a. Like a very long living fish. Yeah. And then you're also kind of like in some cases you're mortally wounding it. It's like just getting all infected and dying. Yeah.

Yeah, it's gross. On that note. Here's a segue. Spencer has a tattoo of a paddlefish. It's his favorite animal. Oh, man. How about that? How do you know?

How do I know? That was a joke. Each year, there are a few consistent radio showers. I got called off for saying my Steve. I was going to say it's catching on. So why are you allowed to go Spencer? I was trying to tell you that this would be a segue for you. Oh, you're offering that up.

Yeah. Here's how you doing it. Oh, hey, on that note, Spencer, over there, his favorite animal is the paddlefish. And he has a paddlefish tattoo. Exactly. By golly. Now, each year, there are a few consistent meteor showers that give you your best chance at seeing shooting stars.

I think the biggest one is in August. There's also another notable one in November, December. These generally occur about the same time each year as the Earth passes through an area that has a trail of dusty debris. That was left by a comet or an asteroid. And that's happening right now as we sit here. One of these is happening. Tonight,

Spooky. April 21 is the peak of the Lyrid's meteor shower. Really? This meteor shower, it's always in late April, roughly April 17 to April 26. But tonight and tomorrow night, April 22nd, are the two best nights of the whole show. How these shooting stars are best viewed from the Northern Hemisphere, after moonset and before dawn. And so for much of the country, that means your best viewing hours are between midnight and 6 a.m. That doesn't mean that you won't see shooting stars at 10 p.m. You will. It just won't be quite as spectacular as that like midnight to 6 a.m. window.

The Lyrids meteors, they don't tend to have a long train of light, but these are prone to creating bright flashes known as fireballs. Here's some tips from NASA on good stargazing for this meteor shower. The first one's obvious. Just get away from light pollution. That means leaving the city or simply turning off your porch light. Focus your eyes in the darkest part of the sky. And if the whole sky is dark and you're able to be picky, for this meteor shower, it's best to cheat your eyes to the east rather than the west. NASA says it takes about 30 minutes for your eyes to fully adapt to the darkness.

So give yourself at least an hour to guarantee a glimpse. As I said earlier, the darker the sky, the better the show. Tonight and tomorrow night, we actually have a waxing crescent moon, which means just a sliver of it, is illuminated. That's good news for stargazers as well. Humans have been observing this for as long as we've been on Earth. There are written accounts going back to 687 BC. That's 2,700 years ago about the Lyrid's meteor shower.

One Chinese writer, he said this, on the fourth month of the summer of year seven, at night, the sky is so bright that some fixed stars become invisible. Because of the meteor shower at midnight, the stars fell like rain. So that's what you have a chance to experience. Now, during the peak of the Lyrids, which is again, tonight, tomorrow night, April 21, April 22, you can expect to see about a dozen shooting stars at its peak. But some years, it's better than others. The Lyrids, when it's really good, that's called, what is it, a meteor outburst. So in 1922, in 1982, the Lyrids produced 90 meteors per hour.

and in 1803, observer saw 700 per hour, which is one shooting star every five seconds. Wow. So a dozen is what you'd expect for baseline these next couple nights, but it has a chance to be even more grand than that. Although its peak is right now as we sit here, extra shooting stars will be visible into the weekend. So as we exit the debris field on Sunday, if you're at Turkey camp this weekend, if you're out fishing in the dark, keep your eyes to the sky. I'm going to park my car out so people think someone's ordered it. watching and I'm going to have it all to myself man I'm going to be watching no one else can watch

if if you do happen to witness a spectacular fireball during the lyrid's which as I said earlier as I said earlier in the meteor shower it's known for producing fireballs rather than like long streets of light then you should go report that to the American Meteor Society and if they get enough reports it becomes a confirmed fireball so I I pulled a random one of these confirmed fireballs from last year to show you how the process works. This was from March 7, 2025. This fireball was not part of the Lyrid's meteor shower, as it was about six weeks before that. Phil has a picture of it here showing you how these reports are gathered.

It was 4.40 a.m. Mountain Time four people witnessed a fireball that's traveling from east to west at a downward angle. It's since been categorized. This is event 1414. 2025. So we have our first observer. This was Reagan in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, who says it's an orange fireball. They leave a note with the American Meteor Society saying so grateful to have experienced this. Our next observer is James in Bismarck, North Dakota. James reports the fireball was light blue and white. He says it was very bright. At first, I thought it was a plane moving across the sky until I realized that it was heading towards the ground. Then it clicked that it was a fireball. It reminded

me of the fuel streak of an incoming missile. I don't know how James knows that. But he said it reminded him of that. Where do you see him saying that? Which one? Under persistent train. Oh, I see. There.

Third observer is Brooke in towns and Montana that's just down the road from us. Brooke says it had a smoke trail with shades of light blue, orange, and white. She simply says that it was wild. Now, here's our fourth. It doesn't tell us that. Here's our fourth report. I'm always looking out for guys around the other. Spencer in Bozeman, Montana is our fourth witness here.

What's that? What's the dark as that? I know, I like the sound of this guy. He reports the fireball lasted about three seconds. It was white. Here's his quote, I spend a lot of time outside at night. This was the brightest meteor I've ever seen. Excellent report. I mean, I trust that person.

He establishes credentials. You're not a browler. No, no. I was thinking back, what was I doing at 4.30 a.m. I was in my hot tub. I had just got done traveling. I had a shoot, I shot at roast that week. I had two episodes of trivia. My whole sleep schedules off. So if I like wake up super early like that, I'll just go out in the hot tub. I was out in the hot tub and I saw this fireball and then I went. And reporter, you woke up early. You weren't, this wasn't like coming down after a long night. It was like, it was like bed at 8 a.m. up early and I reported it and I got to be part of event one four. Congratulations. Thank you.

So if you see a particularly spectacular fireball this weekend or any time, you know, you should go do some citizen science and report it to the American Meteor Society. It's valuable data for them. There's a sign up and says report a fireball. It's fun and easy. You should get attention. It was an observer before. Yeah, I reported a fireball.

It was easy. It asked you 12 questions and some are like, Oh, what is the answer to that? You like really have to. So when you see one of these things, you know, put yourself in that place. Like, where did it start? Where did it end? What color was it?

Roughly how much time did it take for it to cross the sky? That way you can give AMS a good report. Excellent job, man. It was a great report. Hats off. Here's the thing I'm thinking about. If I tell my kids about this, they're going to want to stay up or get up. And if they get up, then they're going to be all cranky tomorrow.

Uh-huh. So it's like, do you go with as a parent? Do you go with like, enhance? their lives and then dealing with them when they're when they wake up and they're talking about how tired they are yeah I have you not tell them about it we haven't answered this in our house I'm like you can set an alarm and get up if you want and then I just go to sleep she wait till they're older where they can truly experience the whole they can appreciate the whole experience you know I'm

probably you tell them about it but what I have is her mom will get them up she's better about stuff like that yeah the gambler All right, buddy. Thanks to joining the news show. Next week, Steve on Colorado. I'm telling you what. We promise it'll come. Yeah, and I've been bumping the report on the Monte Verde Archaeological site.

We might end up with an episode that's just catching up. 80 minutes of Steve's talking directly into the camera. All the stuff that keeps getting bumped. Because my stuff's always at the end. There's no time to get to it. Thanks for joining the news show. Send in Hot news. tips if you get them we'll cover them take care on blood trails the stories don't end when the hunt is

over they just get darker he's sleeping that oh my god he doesn't have a head blood trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors where the terrain is unforgiving the evidence is scarce and the truth gets buried under brush and silence indications were he should be right there and but he wasn't This season, we're going deeper. From cold case files to whispered suspicions, from remote mountains to frozen backwards. Each story begins in the wilderness and ends in darkness. Because out here, there are no witnesses, no cameras, just fragments and the people left behind trying to piece them back together. He's not an honest person. He's incapable of being honest.

Somebody somewhere knows something. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season 2 of Blood Trails premieres April 16th. Follow now on Apple, IHeart, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.