The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 884: The Invention of Archery, Patagonia Sues a Drag Queen, and Will Oregon Ban Hunting?

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

Steven Rinella and the MeatEater crew discuss: How a gang of rogue turkeys beat up a nice old lady; the invention of archery; Oregon voters will get to consider a bill to ban all hunting, fishing, ranching and rodeo-ing; fishing records; possible lead-shot wild game meat donations in New York; fish full of PFAS chemicals; Patagonia sues a drag queen; and more.  Connect with Steve and The MeatEater Podcast Network Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Check out Phelps' new bear cub distress call. Springtime is the right time to use a bear cub in distress sound when bear hunting. Male bears will kill cubs in order to get females to cycle into another breeding opportunity. And the sound of a cub in distress also signals to other male bears that a meal is close and even a possible mate. A bear cub in distress will also get the attention of a female bear to come and investigate to defend a cub. dragging any male suitors she has in tow.

Not to mention, a cub in distress will also call other predators in as they're looking for an easy meal too. Get your own bear cub in distress at Phelpsgamecauls.com. Welcome to the news show, ladies and gentlemen. Today we've got news about a gang of rogue turkeys who beat up a nice old lady. Oregon voters will get to consider a bill to ban all hunting, fishing, ranching, and rodeoing, pushed by a dude who looks like Moby on a diet.

We got an interview about archaeological findings around who invented the bow and arrow and when. Spencer Newhart shatters a number of fishing records. Seth is slowly killing himself eating fish full of P-FAS chemicals and

Patagonia sues, of all things, a drag queen. But first, I'm up. The mouse is gone. Oh, what happened? Got away. But it's like a complicated story because first the mouse, my boy comes in the room. I don't know when that kid goes to bed, the high school kid, comes to our room, wakes me and my wife up at 2 in the morning to say, the mouse got away, but I found it.

And I said, did you put a lid on it so it doesn't get out again? He says, yes, the next day I wake up and there's no lid on it. And I said, why did you say that you put a lid on it? He said, because what I meant was it doesn't need a lid. Oh, sure. He said it crawled. What he meant was it doesn't need a lid. Like, you know?

And I'm like, Katie, do you remember him saying, like, in the middle of the night that he put a lid on it? She says he absolutely said he put a lid on it. He says it doesn't need a lid is why he said that. He says it crawled out on a stick, but he found it. So wait, he woke you up in the middle of night to tell you that it got away. That's what was so fishy about it. Yeah. But it was true because in the morning he goes back.

Like, I don't get why. I don't know why he woke us up to tell us that. He woke us up and tells a non-news item. Sounds suspicious there. Very fishy. But still, it made its way to the news show. Very fishy. So he says there was a stick in there.

Someone put a stick in there. So it mimicked its real environment, like your real life environments. You know. And he said, well, I took the stick out. Then my wife goes against a basketful. of laundry in the laundry room screams bloody murder because the mouse has got out and found its way and is living in the laundry

basket. We find it again and catch it. This little boy who was his mom, a neighbor boy, his mom was with my wife when they found the mouse. He made a hardware cloth box with a lid for the mouse.

Nice. Since there's no aquarium lid, we put it in the hardware cloth like made out of like you know wire mesh to store it in air but my wife at this point is done with this mouse getting away so she's like store the mouse outside

in the box with the lid I had originally nixed this box because I said that mouse will fit through the hardware cloth but I said put it in there because it's got a lid and put it outside and they're like but I thought you said it'd crawl through the hardware cloth and I think it's big enough now where it won't but but it did

but where it gets complicated is my wife was mad that I brought that thing down here because she's like it's illegal to have wildlife so you're going to get in trouble for talking about that stupid thing on the podcast and I said you're going to get in trouble because you brought it home but now it's gone anyway and now it looks like I let it go to avoid the law because if they raid the house like I listen to blood trails if there's no body

it's very hard to prosecute sure so now there's no mouse anyways so like when they raid the house and I'm like dude there's no mouse here look all you want well here somewhere you had to have been secretly happy that that thing got free oh yeah we were both happy again away but I legit didn't let it go so is it in the house somewhere

no it's outside the house wonder if he'll come back to visit you guys now and then like that pigeon did do you think he's like grown enough or she's grown enough to make it I've told my kids I think it's fine since the right time of year and if it could escape on its own like two or three times yeah it's got a bad desire you got any bad neighbors that let their house cats roam around there's one there's one cat I think his name's Mitzie or something like that Killing me a machine dude no bell on that thing hmm yeah Mitzie and Meeble Meble's gone.

So if the cops are coming, don't even waste your time. I can't find the mouse if I wanted to. habeas corpus. There's nobody. Listen to blood trails. There's no body. You can't do nothing about it. We got our, oh, oh, yeah, our annual turkey hunt giveaway sweepstakes.

I like it because when this sweepstakes goes live every year, it's just about the time of year we just did it. Last year's turkey hunt sweepstakes giveaway winners. We just hunted with them. Both of them got their birds. They both got their birds on day one. Every year, Yannis and I team up with TRCP and we do our turkey hunt giveaway. All expense paid three-night, two-day turkey hunt. The webpage says Colorado, but we bounce around.

We don't like to lock ourselves in on where we hunt. This last year, we hunted in northern Illinois. Phenomenal hunt. So ignore that. That'll change. They have to put a value on it, and they say it's worth $9,000. I think it's worth $100,000. Hmm.

All your expense paid. We pay your travel. We pay your food. We have my buddy, chef Andy, came and cooked this year. He's cooked in the past. So we bring in the chef. We take care of your lodging, your airfare, your turkey tags. You hunt with me and yani, three nights, two days.

All the money. We cover, personally, we cover all the expenses. So the full raffle sweepstakes money goes straight to TRCP. We don't pull expenses. is out. That goes to TRCP. Okay. It's live now to go win. We've been doing this for years. We've got a stack of

we've got a stack of happy customers. Didn't it start out as an elk hunt and change to a turkey hunt? It's funny you bring that up. It started out as an elk hunt that was an auction. So that meant that every year it'd be like an orthodontist or some such.

Then we're like, let's switch it so that any kind of guy can win. Right. Just so hillbillies and rednecks can come. Yep. So that's what we did. And it raised more money. We like tripled the amount of money we raised by going raffle.

Yep. So if you're sitting there and you're thinking, man, I'm too much of a hillbilly to win something like that. Think again. And if you got a baby due in the spring and you consider the like, well, maybe the timing doesn't work, you can still do it anyway and Steve will have a make-good for you. Spencer speaking from experience. Last year's winner didn't hunt. Last year's winner wins and then gets his wife pregnant.

Like three months later. Tale as old as time. So all of a sudden his wife's due date is like turkey season. So he sends his brother-in-laws who tag out. Then I felt bad for him. So then I had him and his dad come for dinner. and Spencer came over to help entertain. Oh.

So we flew them into town. This is, we're not going to make a habit out of that. If you win, don't go get pregnant. If you win, get a box of prophylaxis.

Family plan accordingly. Yep. If you get a family, if you win, get a family planning plan together. I don't care how you do it. Yeah. That's for another show.

That's for calling them mommy. Um, so. So how did Spencer entertain them? I was doing cartwheels. Oh, he's a great entertainer. Magery. Tricky. Spencer's my kind of guy for stuff like that because what Spencer does.

Oh, wow. Do you want to know what, what you know what Spencer does? He asked a lot of questions. Yeah. Very thoughtful questions. He's not there to talk about himself. Yeah, he's very, he'd ask questions on the fly. Like if you thought for a week about what you might ask.

Well, did you notice? Maybe I thought for a week about what I might ask. Did you notice how I noticed that about you? Hell yeah. Yeah, he asks great questions. He's a natural host. Thank you. It's just, yeah, I can just, I can sit there.

And when he has a question, I'm like, that's such a good question. I'm looking forward to the answer. And if you only listen to the podcast, you might think that he just asks trivia questions. But in fact, he's very personable. Yeah. Ask people about themselves. It's a great characteristic. TRCP.org.

Summer, meat eater summer sweepstakes. Again, all expense. Three-night, two-day hunt with me and yani. We have made some exceptions when we've had a hunter and not. get us bird. We've done I don't want to make a habit of that.

We already got next year's spot lined up. It's the same spot from this year and the place is sweet. It's a good turkey hunt. That's where they strut on the railroad tracks.

If you need some extra entertainers, he can ask some questions. So it goes like you get like 10 entries for $25. Whatever. Just do it.

Yeah. Get in there, win this son of a bitch. we'll show you turkey hunt and some good food what else we got is that it no you got a t-shirt oh we got you know all this all this hoopla america's 250th anniversary i get it i'm more of a 100 200 300 guy yeah here here like i was around i was three two something like that two at the bicentennial but the problem with only doing centennial celebrations is you're going to have people just flat out miss out.

Yeah. Including our current president. Yeah. Well, no. You know, he hit the bicentennial. I know, but he's like, the 250 is closely linked to his. Yeah. I don't want a dog on it.

I get it. But I just like, I would never, if I was left to myself, I would never think to, if I saw that the 300 was coming up, I would plan huge stuff. Yeah. Big part. I would never have thought to myself. to 50 is you know

but the the nice thing about splitting the 50s is most people that live a normal life expectancy will hit a

celebration you could like I hit one at two I won't hit the next one hmm nope I mean we

right so maybe maybe how like you might not ever hit one no probably not if they didn't do

the 50 right right i was born in 86 so like you could live a fairly okay life yeah i mean it's not gonna be great yeah it'd be a little bit disappointing you yeah the sydney would get remarried yeah looking forward to that day um she'd get a second chance now every you could feasibly without it being a tragedy sure never get yeah a celebration perfectly how everybody say he lived till 89. Oh, is that how you'd be? Well, 90. I could live till 89 and miss it, right? Okay, so you're not going to see one. No. That's why you got to do the 50s. I mean, I'm, because of Randall. They don't have like the cool centennial name, though. They do. They do. If I may, what is it called?

I was going to say, everybody knows that 150 is a sesquist centennial. Oh, that's what that means? Yeah. The term for a 250th anniversary is, a semi-quincentennial. Nice. That sucks. Which sort of sounds like a Kinsoniero. That's why. I believe that's why they're going with 250. Yeah.

That should have gone on a T-shirt, man. Semi-Quincennial. Yeah, why is that on the shoe? That's a great That's a great trivia. Anyways, we launched a shirt in Randall's honor because this is his best chance to see a centennial. This is the only chance to have a good celebration. It says America. It's got a buffalo

on. It says, Land of the Free, 17, 76. Get your own. What's it about free jerky there? Yeah. I think you might get free jerky with the t-shirt or if you spend over a certain amount or something. Really? Some 250-year-old jerky.

I don't see nothing about jerky. It says it up there. The top left. This is just a screenshot from the website. Oh. Huh. There could be something to do with free jerky. Yeah.

I don't want to. That's enticing. Don't say anything official. Um, guy has the etiquette question. Hold on, hold on. Oh, sorry. Punt gun. Good job.

Was that deliberate? This is, I was testing. Now you got to explain. Before we started recording. Not missing the exit. Steve scolded me for not speaking up last week to talk about the punt gun and then he blew past the punt gun exit again on this episode. We bought a punt gun in 2022.

We've been messing around it for a while. We shot it earlier this year. Now there's some important news to show. share around that. In late June here, we're going to have the video that comes out on our YouTube channel of me and Steve shooting the punt gun. And then in early or mid-year-olde, the meat eater auction house of oddities is going to go live. And we are going to be selling some hats that were shot by the punt gun at the auction house. And then in late August... Those hats say this hat was shot by a punt gun. And it was actually shot by a punt gun.

And there's going to be three categories. There's one... shot, pretty shot, and really shot. Yes. So, barely shot. Higher, the more holes, this is the weird part. You pay more for the more holes. Sure. But it all goes to, it all goes to conservation. It's like jeans these days. Yeah, exactly. What did you guys do with the shell casings?

We, we have some. Spencer stole one for his own collection. They may go in the auction house. We sent one of them to explain this now. In late August, we are selling the punt gun again. It will be August 21, 22, or 23. We don't know the exact date yet. This will be done through Rock Island auction at their summer premiere auction. Rock Island auction, they're like the world's leading auction house for antique, collectible, historic firearms. That's where we bought the punt gun. And remember we had Will Primo's on about selling that collection, that collection series of shotguns he has. That was Rock Island. If a really valuable gun comes up for sale, say it's like worth north of, you know,

$20,000, there's a good chance it's going through Rock Island. That's where our punt gun came from. That's who it's now going to be sold through. We paid $20,000 for it. The folks at the auction house hope that it goes for more than that this time around. Their estimate is 20 to 30,000. Punt guns don't come up for sale real often. We bought ours in 2022. That same auction, there was one other punt gun. Prior to that, they had sold one in 2021 and then 2016. So less than one a year for punt guns coming up for sale. Ours is a Holland and Holland punt gun manufactured in London.

And it's from the late 1800s. It's four years older than the very state we're sitting in right now. That's how old that damn punk gun is. And the nice thing about this, when we got it, if someone said does it work, we would have had to say, I don't know. In fact, we asked that question and they said, we don't know. Now, when

you buy it and someone says, does it work? You'd be like, does it work? Check out this hat. It worked six times. So we're going to sell that. through Rock Island auction, August 21 to 23, every dollar that that punt gun sells for is going into the Me Deeder Land Access Initiative. So it's going to a good cause. And Rock Island, they're doing us a huge favor. They're waiving all fees that are normally associated with selling a gun through them. So we appreciate Rock Island for their help in making this happen.

We'll announce these dates when they get closer. But late June, video, mid-July, auction house, late August, the punt gun will be sold. those of you out there are the big pile of scratch orthodontist yep um get that pug gun and um if you do buy it you want the wall mount brackets spencer was too lazy to take them off the wall let me know i'll send them over martin fabrication made them rock island auction dot com a guy had a chattiquette question but you got to resend the question because the way you have it you're going to hurt people's feelings yes like he way over described. Way over described.

You'd have to, this is the, the guy talking about the skull guy and the skull lady, rescind. They're going to know exactly who you're talking about. And then you're going to have no skull people. Leeland. No skull people. We got a thing that's going to, we're going to have Yanni address where a guy's talking about. Basically, he's saying, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater on drones.

Drone recovery. Drone recovery. He's got a spirited argument about why drone recovery is great and you shouldn't make it so you can't use drones to find wounded animals just because people are going to then also use it to poach. But we'll let Yanni talk about that. A guy wrote in to say, we were talking about data center on the North Slope. We're talking about the oil fields around Prudeau Bay.

How they don't pipe out natural, liquefied natural gas. often natural gas being a byproduct of oil extraction. He says they truck it down daily, down to Fairbanks and trucks. So there is a commercial liquefied natural gas output coming off there. That correction stands. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IR. Radio.

Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must have party bangers, plus personalized and curated playlists, Like back in the day pride. Come together, celebrate love. Take pride with you. Anytime, anywhere.

Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at iHartRadio.ca. Hunting demands preparation, persistence, and gear that will not quit on you. That is why I wear first light. This isn't about hype. It's about no compromise gear. Built to perform, built to last. Whether it's their industry leading merino,

wool, keeping me comfortable through the cold and the hot, or their durable outerwear shrugging off the elements. First Light is built to help you go farther and stay longer, designed by hunters, four hunters, with a deep commitment to conservation and land access. No shortcuts, no excuses. Just gear you can count on. Head to firstlight.com. That's f-I-R-S-T-L-E-E dot com.

Now, an interview with our favorite archaeologist, Meton Aaron. So, Matton's been on the show before. If you remember when we did our thing, when we did a research, we participated in a research project where we butchered a bison using stone tools. Meton's been on the show talking about a lot of his archaeological work. When someone sends me or anyone I know a photo of a rock they found and they're wondering if it was, if it's a tool. a human-made tool. We always send the picture to Metton. Metton always says it's not.

Yeah. I do this all the time. Yep. He's like a professional ball buster, like professional good times ruiner. Sorry. I'll be like, look at this crazy X I found. He's like that looks like a rock. Not always.

The burden of deep expertise. Yep. Yep. Sometimes he will point out that he This is what makes him a great. Sometimes you'll point out he can't tell from that picture. And sometimes you'll point out that that does look like worked stone. So it's not that he just says no just to be mean. But he puts people in their place.

And I always say, when I get a picture of something someone found, I always say, hang on a minute. So if I ever say that to you and you're one of my friends, what I'm doing is I'm sending the picture to Meton. For him to vet. Okay. Metton, please, tell us about the paper you just published. Yeah, so myself and some of my closest colleagues, a guy named Briggs Buchanan at University of Tulsa and Rob Walker at Missouri and Marcus Hamilton down in Texas, we wanted to know when the bow and arrow was adopted in prehistoric North America.

And this is the question that a lot of archaeologists have struggled with for a pretty long time. And it's a tricky question because usually like the components of a bow and arrow don't preserve, right? Because it's wood and sinew and stuff. So for a really long time, archaeologists have been using stone points to try to figure out the weapon that that stone point went on to. But that's really problematic because you can have little tiny points on arrows, atlattle darts.

You can even have tiny points on spears. like thrusting spears. And you can have large points on all of those different weapon systems. So you can't use the stone point to figure out the rest of the weapon. And so Dave Meltzer, who's been on the podcast several times, he said to me a couple years ago, he's like, why don't you figure this out? So I start to think about it. And there's a statistical technique called optimal linear estimation.

And we don't need to get into the details of that technique because it's pretty bored. But, you know, if you, like, hit a baseball and if you only have, like, 30% of that baseball's trajectory and you know the velocity of the baseball, you can make a pretty good prediction of where that baseball is going to land. Kind of what optimal linear estimation does, except we can do it with data and radiocarbon dates. And so what my colleagues and I did was we actually went through the literature and we actually have something like 50 preserved components of bows and arrows from really dry caves and bows and arrows that like melt out of the ice and stuff like that. And we have 86 preserved components from the atlattle or spear thrower and dart also from dry caves and just random occurrences where these. these things preserve. And because we can date those wooden components, we have radiocarbon dates on all 136 of those rare archaeological specimens. And so what we did was we applied this technique and we went backwards in time with the bow and arrow and we went forwards in time

with the Atlattle and dart. We found that they crossed over exactly at 1,400 years ago. So that's when the bow and arrow transition from the atlattle and occur in western North America. Do you, I've often said this, I should have checked with a guy like you before I said it. I've often told people, and I don't even know where I read this, that the bow and arrow was perhaps invented, I don't know where I got this number, seven times. When I say that, what am I saying? So what you're talking about is the principle of convergent evolution. And we see that all the time in the biological world, right?

Insects, birds and bats all can fly. But they're not related to each other. They independently evolved the ability to fly. And so we see that with the bow and arrow, right? The bow and arrow was invented, we think, in South Africa, about 74,000 years ago, who was invented again in central Europe about 54,000 years ago. Sri Lanka, 48,000 years ago, again in Europe, 11,000 years ago. And what we've shown in this latest paper,

who was reinvented once again in North America, just 1,400 years ago. Huh, yeah. So, like, I mean, this is because humans are smart and they have similar issues that they need to solve, problems they need to solve and so they'll come up with similar solutions and so at various points in time people invented the bow and arrow to tackle whatever problem they were facing now that you have that date and you look at the types of stone points that you see from different dated sites

does it does it illuminate anything that you didn't notice before meaning did you sort of rediscover a correlation between an arrow, like in what is commonly called, like an Indian arrowhead, between an arrowhead size and what it might have been used for? Like, did you see a shrinking of arrowhead size around 1,400 years ago now that you, that you have an identified point to look at? Yeah. There's general trends where points will get smaller after that point. And then like, you know, five or 600 years after that 1,400 years. old marker, like the points get real small. Okay.

So you can be confident if you find like a really tiny point, you're probably dealing with the bow and arrow. But again, probably, right? I mean, the past doesn't really preserve that well. And so archaeologists should always kind of buffer what they say with, you know, qualifiers. Do you think there's any chance in identifying what part of, like, where this thing sprung up geograph more specifically oh now that's a really good question right because we focused

our analysis on this atlattle the bow transition in western north america okay and that's where stuff preserved either in super dry caves like in the southwest or if it's melting out of like ice right yeah well what our research doesn't speak to is was the bow invented in western north America? Or was it invented somewhere else, maybe somewhere in the east? And then it came to Western North America 1400 years ago. We have no idea. And that's a tough question because just stuff does not preserve in the eastern woodlands that well. It's too much seasonality, too much moisture, and just organic materials just get decimated. So you wouldn't be shocked if you, if you heard, and I appreciate what you're saying, like, we don't know. But you wouldn't be shocked.

if it would be that maybe a thousand years earlier it was being used on the Atlantic coast say it might have like who knows it might have taken that long to get to the western U.S. the boat. That is certainly

a possibility. I think the other thing to keep in mind too is it's also possible that the bow and arrow was used a lot earlier say by paleo Indians and then for some reason it was lost when extinct. And then nine, 10,000 years later was reinvented 1400 years ago.

I think what this research really speaks to is the fact that, like, you know, we often think that we're getting better and better and better with our technology. And we often have this view of whether it's biological or cultural or technological evolution that things are getting better and better and better. But species and technologies come and go. They go extinct all the time. and they get reinvented. There is no progression to evolution.

And so people will come up with the best solution given the context that they're in. Got it. What else you're working on? What can we expect from your office to your lab next? Yeah. Well, we got some pretty big projects that should be coming out next month, I think. I can't talk about those right now just because they're under embargo, but you guys will be the first ones to know when they come out.

out. Give me a little teaser. Tell me how many years ago we're talking about. Fucking Clovis, 13,000 years. Clovis. We have two big, we got two big papers on Clovis hunting and different aspects of Clovis hunting. You better not be trying to come and giving us more of that hogwash about how they weren't killing mammoths left and right. No, no, no.

They didn't wake up every day. and kill a mammoth. I don't want to hear about it. All right. We'll have a chat about that. Yeah, so we got some Clovis stuff coming out. We were in Oman in November. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, because we've been working there for the last few years. We have a hypothesis that we published. It was last year, and that got quite a bit of news on a new hypothesis for the origin of, well, all technology. Okay. And that has to do with basically people using naturally sharp rocks to process game and carcasses.

And so really you can tie the origin of technology and the fact that we're looking on iPhones and this screen right now to the fact that people needed to cut meat. Got it. That started everything. And so we were there in November. I love going to Elman. It's an awesome place. Yeah, we got probably. projects in Kenya that we'll probably go to next year and just lots of experiments and shooting stuff.

Keep us posted on the new Clovis work. Again, Matt and Aaron is a professor at Kent State University where he directs the Experimental Archaeology Department. He and his colleagues, including our friend and former podcast guest, David Meltzer, have both, what I'm trying to say? both been on yeah whatever you get the point Kent State University Experimental Archaeology Department thank you very much for joining and

we always look forward to anything you can come and tell us about ancient hunters so appreciate you join him hey thanks okay wild turkey's ambushed California senior citizen but they don't ambush this story was sent to us Brody can you

can you give the basic gist here or aren't you that familiar? I mean, I can give the basic gist in California, like recently an elderly woman in the San Francisco area was out walking and got attacked by a couple turkeys. Town turkeys. Yeah, urban turkeys. And that's like, like that segment of the wild turkey population has grown pretty fast. Like they're, they're pretty common in suburbia and even like urban areas. But she is bruised and cut.

Yeah. You got those pictures of her, Phil? Oh, I'll pull them up here, Brody. I thought you were talking about the other turkey graphic you sent me. I'll pull them up. Oh, we'll pull that up in a minute. We got Boku turkey graphics going on here. That's French.

It's a good problem. Oh, yeah. She had some injuries to her face and fell. And I did a little research while we were getting this whole thing together this morning. And that's actually one of the most common injuries when wild turkeys ambush people. Well, see, that's why I wanted to cover the story. but then Brody did additional research. Can I cover my bit first?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If, okay, there's two main, yeah, I was going to complain about another thing. I was going to say two main complaints I have in life, but I'm going to skip the other one. Journalists need to better understand what an ambush is.

They, I was going to find 100 examples of journalists, Not Understanding an ambush. They're like, these turkeys, they use the word. Here's the poor woman. It was beat up by the turkeys. These turkeys came up behind her and attacked her and the journalist says they ambushed her. It's not an ambush. Journalists never know what an ambush is.

For the turkeys to have ambushed her, they would have need to go out ahead of her. Lying wait. Layed in wait or waited outside her door, concealed, laying in wait. my message to America's journalists is please try to understand what an ambush is. There has to be some element of concealment. Yeah, I was reading a story. They ambushed.

So there's like some police parked in a car and they're attacked by a person. And they said he ambushed him. It's like, no, he walked up on him. She was not ambushed. No. She was attacked. There's ambushing, bushwhacking,

Brody was pointing out a guy using the term shanghying. I don't know what that means, but like you can shanghai a turkey. But like she's not, she was attacked. She wasn't ambushed. You could ambush and then attack. An attack is like, there's levels of attack, right? There's like grizzly bear attacks and there's turkey attacks. If I, like, I would be more comfortable saying that these turkeys bushwhacker. Right.

Because to bushwhack a turkey is to kill. kill it without calling it in. To ditch crawl on it. Yeah. Or hill crawl, whatever. To, like, put the creep on a turkey, is bushwhacking it. So it'd be more like they came in blind on her and bushwhacked her.

They didn't ambush her. But her injuries were from falling. And that's typical of wild turkey attacks where an elderly person ends up falling while they're being attacked. Yeah. There was a turkey that kept attacking the elderly. And a wildlife officer wanted to catch it. They had to dress up like an old lady and act like an old lady to lure the attack.

That's ambushing the turkey. Like they were profiling their victim. No, that's Trojan horse in it. And then they stranglehold. The wildlife official dressed up like an old lady pretended to be an old lady to lure the attack. And then they threw it into a stranglehold. It's like holding on to a live wild turkey It's hard enough when they're wounded a bit after you shoot them

Yeah You gotta hold on in their neck Sure man Yeah um Phil do you got the how to survive a wild turkey attack Yeah Brody found this This is this is uh I got there's a quote here about uh Someone actually made this this is better than Spencer's garden chart

It is umbrellas There's a lot of blinking animations We saw it tips like umbrellas, carrying a garbage bag around and unfolding that garbage bag and waving it at the turkeys. So don't back down. Carried a big garden holes with you can help? Yep.

If it's hooked up. How to defeat a bully turkey? Don't back down. Who put this how to defeat a bully turkey? That's the funny thing. There are two different articles in the Audubon Society. Phil, what does it say there's umbrella question mark and there's two words above that, like?

It's like this umbrella. Oh, I see. It's a flowchart. It's telling you not to wave your hands. But it also looks mostly empty, but this is what it looked like on the website, though, Rudy. We should create stuff like this on our website. It didn't. But you get the picture.

Why is the turkey on the bottom talking on the phone? Oh, I see. I see that. Call an officer. I feel like that box on the left side in the middle should say, do you have anything with you? Right. Yeah, I think some of our, it didn't download the right way. Yeah, that's a bad job.

But yeah, it's saying, like if you don't have a shotgun, it's saying spray it with water, hose it down, shake a bag at it. But that's the thing. Waving an umbrella at it. You can only do so much of these things, right? Because they're wild animals. So you can't, your hands are kind of tied as far as like what you can do to fight them off. Yeah, don't gobble at it. Here's a question.

What if you just like, you're like, boo, and you run at it? I think that'd work. I wouldn't gobble at it. It wouldn't hand call at it. If you gobble at it, it'll probably gobble at you. Don't run up to it with a jake decoy. It's a real problem, these town turkeys. Okay, we're going to Oregon now.

In the news a lot lately has been this Oregon hunting ban petition. A lot of the headlines that I feel like have been kind of misleading because it's like saying they have they have enough signatures to ban hunting an organ which is not the case so we're going to go through the whole thing

the Oregon Peace Act which is people for the elimination of animal cruelty exemptions I think they started with knowing what they wanted the acronym to be and then and then figuring it out reverse engineer because you want

you can always tell when someone does that because they wind up with something real clunky. Yep. People for the elimination of animal cruelty exemptions because they wanted to be able to call it peace. But I feel like if you're in the acronym business, that's not a bad strategy. It's like when Congress came up with a genius act, which is, yeah. They knew what they wanted to call it first. Then they had to think of a bunch of words that would make that.

Okay. So the Peace Act would remove many exemptions in Oregon's animal cruelty laws. currently allow hunting, fishing, trapping, livestock production, and slaughter, and other animal use practices. So basically, it would outlaw all of that stuff. And supporters say the proposal would extend the same legal protections currently given to pets. You know, you can see where this is going. It's a very extreme thing. and it was kind of engineered by this guy David Mickelson.

We got our photo of David. Dude. Would you like to? That's an ad for vegan diet right there, man. Yeah. So David kind of is spearheading this thing. That is a rugged lifestyle. Yeah, it doesn't look like he's got a lot of energy to run this thing.

But anyway, they got the signatures. I think it was 120,000 signatures. They needed 117,000 to get this thing on the ballot. A little background on Mickelson. The background in psychology, public health. He said his activism was influenced by witnessing pigs being killed in slaughterhouses. And he has tried earlier versions of this same thing in Oregon. He acknowledges the initiative is unlikely to pass and has described it as part of a longer-term effort to change public attitudes around human use of animals.

They want to change the system. Killing animals is a choice, he says. We can make 100% of that food from crops if we chose to do so. So obviously, this is like very broad in scope. It's not just a hunting issue. It'll never pass. No, we'll get to that. We'll see what the odds are.

Obviously, hunters, like groups like the Oregon's Hunters Association, Ducks Unlimited, National Wild Turkey Foundation, on and on and on with these hunting groups are opposed to this. But it's a lot bigger than hunters. The Oregon Farm Bureau, ranching groups, etc., argue that, you know, it would just completely change,

fundamentally change their way of life for the worst. Senator Christine Drezan, Oregon Republican gubernatorial candidate, says it's an all-out assault on Oregonian's way of life that would expose farmers, ranchers, veterinarians, breeders, and animal owners to criminal liability. So if the measure reaches voters, which is likely to happen, it's likely to get on the ballot, it's unlikely to be voted into law.

Oregon has more than 330,000 licensed hunters, 500,000 licensed anglers, 70,000 farms and ranches involved in livestock production, cattle, sheep, dairy, goats, poultry, hogs, roughly 1.25 million cattle and calves, and 525,000 beef cows. This is where it gets good. 3.4 million registered voters in Oregon. 170,000 to maybe 270,000 of those voters identify as either vegetarian or vegan. 5 to 8% of the state's voting age population. So not looking good for it to pass.

I asked AI what the odds are. of making the ballot 85 to 95% at the ballot, 80% chance it fails, 20% it passes. Now that's AI. So, but that's like- What's it pulling from? Like polymarket data? Yeah, political betting market. Mm-hmm.

And 20% is, you know, it's not nothing. Yeah. You know, this brings up a question I've always pondered is I'm a law and order guy. Mm-hmm. Right? I'm like a lawbreaker. And I was raised up lawbreaking. but gave up on it.

If this happened in my state, I feel like I would become a vigilante hunter. Oh yeah, for sure. Like I wouldn't flat out, right? I wouldn't flat out quit. I would become a vigilante angler. Yep. Do you know, I mean, I wouldn't like,

I'm not going to quit. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? I'd just be like, well, I guess I'm a poacher now. Yep. Exactly. It would be like, if you were a hunter, instead of like getting all your stuff during a season,

you'd be like, I'm getting low. it's time to go get a dough or something. Because I'm just like, I'm not going to abide. I'm like, it's gone too far. I don't trust this system anymore. And now I'm just on my own. Or would you leave the state? No, because I'm not going to say it.

Because these people from this neck of the woods, they're always hunting. They don't stick close to home. Leaving the state is like, Washington and Minnesota dudes. One goes one direction, one goes the other direction. And guess where they land. Leaving the state is like when someone from Hollywood's like, I'm moving to France. Yeah.

You know, you're giving up. Yeah. The weird thing about this, though, is how broad it is compared to a lot of these ballot measures that pop up like the cat hunting thing in Colorado, which is like usually like it's really specific, which I think gives these things a better chance of passing. But this is like, he's just like being done for a stunt. Yeah. He's doing the Pita thing. Yeah. The point for Pita is not to have, not to make progress.

The point for Pita is to perpetuate Pita by making the news. Yeah. Yeah. So they propose things they know we're a dead end because then the press, like how we're doing right now, we'll talk about it. Yeah. And then they'll be like the news story. Like anytime Pita makes the news, it's the news saying, what will they think of next? Yeah.

This is ridiculous. And they're like, ha, sweet, we did it. We're in the news. So we're falling for that little Moby-looking dude. Yeah. We're falling for his. Playing into his hands. We're playing right into his hands.

And the other thing, too, about these stunts is like, they're gathering signatures. So they could go to a farmer's market and just tell people, would you like to sign this to put a ballot measure in play? And be very big about what it is. Yeah, like, you can say it's to end, like, lab testing on animals. or you could say it's this or that, you know. But if they're at the farmer's market, the farmers are going to kick their ass. Well, I'm just thinking of like, where do you go when you're trying to? There's probably vegan farmer markets in Portland.

Baseball game, but I don't think they've had much luck outside of a baseball game. Someone's going to beat him with a hot dog. But what Randall's saying did get me thinking, like, we should do some man on the street reporting at Whole Foods or wherever when we find out one of these things is going on, like send someone there. Oh, that would be a good idea. You know, like ask some people some people some. question. Anyway, Spencer asked good questions. That's what's going on in Oregon.

You'll be real thoughtful. I unanimated that flowchart, so it filled in all the text. Back in a turkey flow chart, guys. I'm over it. If you're turkey attacks, you strangle it. But tag it. But the point, one thing I was bringing up is you better make sure it's attacking you because it's not you'd be harassing Wildlike.

Well, that's what I'm saying. You can't walk up to Wildlife and beat it. I said there's only so much you can do. Like you can't kill them, right? Unless like... Well, if it's risk, like... I guess. If that poor old lady had killed that turkey, no one's going to prosecute her.

It's not like she stole a mouse from the wild. And detained it. You can't lay out poison for them. Okay. Speaking of bans, here's some news from my home state of New York. Senate bill S-9473 was recently proposed. we're not sure if it's going to go through or not, but it's called the Lead Free Game Donation Act.

And if it goes through, then it would be a prohibition on donating lead shot while gave meat to food pantries. So actually, this surprised me. New York, if this were to go through, New York would be the second state after only Minnesota to ensure that, lead, potentially contaminated meat

wouldn't be donated to food banks and pantries. So let's play a little game. How much wild game do you think is donated per year to food banks across the country? Across the country? Mm-hmm. I have no idea. 20,000 pounds.

No, no. A million pounds. A million. What is it? So apparently, recently, last year, it was 1,100 tons. of wild harvested gay meat. Got to do the zeros on now.

Yeah, 1,000, yeah. What they're missing here is no one's been able to demonstrate, no one's been able to demonstrate a correlation between lead poisoning and consumption of wild game. It's a completely open question. I thought they have. There was one, there was one study that I saw.

It was like some individuals were consuming lead shot while gay meat and their lead, the blood levels in their blood were X. And then they transitioned to, to consuming non-led shot game meat and the blood levels decreased. I don't want to see that. I mean, I remember the one they did where they like took hunters and urban dwellers, and the urban dwellers had higher lead from environmental lead contamination than the hunters had.

So I think it's hard to, what are you supposed to do, fill out a question, like you're going to ask people, what did you shoot it with? So, So we'll go, I'm going to just let me see. So for example, in Minnesota, if you are a hunter who's donating meat, you actually have to get your meat processed by a Minnesota Department of Ag registered meat processing plant. And they will in fact, x-ray the meat for lead fragments. So in New York, I think that they would probably transition to something similar.

And then, but these are, that Minnesota is the only state that has this. So in California, for example, for hunting of any kind, you can't use lead ammo. So there isn't a worry there. And then there are two other states that have rules around warning labels. So that would be Iowa and South Dakota. At food banks, if they're distributing meat, while game meat, on the bag, it says not tested for lead. And there's a lead warning to pregnant women and children. All other states, it's just, there's nothing in place against this.

So in any case, this bill, lawmakers expect it to be reintroduced in pursuit in 2027. It's gone through a couple of committees. is they don't think it'll come up again this year, but next year we'll look out for it. Man, the thing I don't get about it a little bit is, how am I still alive? Have we ever tested your blood-blood levels? Has anyone ever gotten that?

I feel like I have had that done. I don't know. I should test my kids, too. They should be deader and dead. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IHR Radio Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must have party bangers, plus personalized and curated playlists,

like back in the day pride. Come together, celebrate love. Take pride with you anytime, anywhere. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at iHartRadio.ca. Hunting demands preparation, persistence, and gear that will not quit on you. That is why I wear First Light. This isn't about hype.

It's about no compromise gear. Built to perform, built to last, whether it's their industry leading merino wool, keeping me comfortable through the cold and the hot, or their durable outerwear shrugging off the elements. First Light is built to help you go farther and stay longer. Designed by hunters, four hunters, with a deep. commitment to conservation and land access, no shortcuts, no excuses. Just gear you can count on. Head to firstlight.com. That's f-I-R-S-T-L-I-T-E.com.

One more quick bit out of New York. This is positive news for the hunting community. We almost reported about this the other week. and then a veto got overturned. So in the county, in Erie County, which is western New York, where the capital Buffalo is, there was a proposal to veto a youth hunting law that exists in the state, which is that youth,

teenagers can use a crossbow, a rifle, a shotgun, or a muzzle-loading firearm to hunt if supervised. And a county executive went against this. So last week it was like, oh, my gosh, you know, teens and youth in Erie County can't hunt supervised with these means. but then the county legislator actually overrode the county executives veto and adopted the youth hunting law. So it was eight to three. There were three Democrats who upheld the veto and two Democrats joined

six Republicans to override the veto. That's what I like to hear, man. Splitting them Dems off. Yep, they're split. That's good. And so now youth 12 and 12 and up, I think it's 12 to 15 or 12 to 16, um, can use, uh, those, um, those crossbow rifle, shotgun and muzzle loader to, to hunt deer.

It's a, how, how can a county, like, decide they're not going to follow a statewide hunting law? How is that a county issue? Yeah. Very strange. Imagine they did that and you're like, lived in that county and all the other counties you could do it from your county, you can't do it. It's just weird.

Man, I don't want to get it. into this vigil. I want to push this vigilante. I wouldn't vigilante that. The legislature quote from the guy, the legislature has an opportunity to override my veto and they may do that. And if they do it, that's their constitutional right.

But if they do that and a child dies in the future, my conscience will be clean. Oh, gosh. He knows he's in the wrong. He knows he regretted it probably pretty quick. And then he had to do like a little deal like that to try to make it smooth it over. And this law is

existed since 2021, and there have been no reported hunting-related shooting incidents, violations, or license revocations. But I think this county exec and others will look at incidents across the country and say, what if? Yeah, so I see here, to the question of the county, it looks like the the state department of environmental, blah, blah, blah. They said, 12 to 13 year olds can hunt with firearm or crossboat in counties that have passed local legislation.

So they sort of like empowered counties to opt into this pilot program. Wow. They're making a county by county issue. That's some confusing game laws, man. Yes. County by county? Because you're thinking about.

Do you have to be a reg? Do you have to be a resident of the county? It'd be where you're, I'm sure it be where you are. But I mean, come on, man. You go to a little kid. Hey, what county are you in, buddy? I don't know my dad. And what if, what if you have a property that spans county lines?

Can you shoot? I don't, that's what I'm saying. That's where it gets such horseshit. Your stand is in County X. There are many, many problems. There are many problems. There are a hundred yards away in County Y. That's stupid.

You should really not do game laws by the county by county. I mean, something that's fundamental is like what age can you hunt with what weapon? Yeah, should not be a county by county issue. Hmm. Anyhow. Spencer's been out fishing. All right, some fishing news.

West Virginia has produced five new state record fish in the last two months. Let's talk about them. Goodness gracious. First one, April 2nd. Oh, good Lord. 15 year old Hunter Roar catches a 28 inch 11.84 pound golden rainbow

trout on the South It's like a make-believe fish. What's wrong that fish's tail? I was going to say the tail. They love, we call them Palaminos. Yeah, we call them Palaminos. People love those. I don't get it, but they're very easy to find in a stream.

Oh, I used to spend hours trying to catch those things. It's like a hive. Is it fertile or not fertile? It's a hybrid trout. Let me tell you about it. So every spring. Are you going to include what's wrong with that fish? It's sick.

Well, I don't know what's up with its tail. My guess is this picture. in the raceway and rubbing up against cement, man. Is it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what we called broodstock. So that fish sat in.

That's what everybody calls broodstock. Oh, let Spencer do his little news report. But I think that he's embarrassed that he didn't realize that something's wrong with that fish. Yeah, it's from living his whole life in a pantry. Every spring during an event called the West, that the West Virginia Department of Natural Resources refers to as gold rush. They release golden rainbow trout across the state. This year, they stocked 50,000. of them in 69 different lakes and streams.

Now, these are not to be confused with the California golden trout, which is a native species to the Sierra Nevada's. Some consider those California golden trout to be their own species. Some say it's a subspecies of the coastal rainbow. Either way, that is not this fish. These are West Virginia golden rainbow trout, also known as Palomino Trout or Banana Trout. They were made at a West Virginia hatchet. So can you zoom into my fingers?

back in the 1950s. They're not on camera. The first stocking being in 1962, and they were created after a regular rainbow trout was born with a mutation that gave it gold coloring. They then took that trout's offspring and produced and continued to breathe them to create the founding population of palomino trout that we know today.

Now, this angler caught this fish on day three of gold rush. He was using eggs from a steelhead that he caught out of a stream near Lake Erie. The 15-year-old said the fight lasted two minutes and that the fish was, quote, too fat to jump. It broke the old record. Broke the old record by more than two pounds. The angler said that they filleted the fish after the record was better by.

Oh, geez. You little bugger, man. Why does it taste like fish pellets? It was missing half its motor there, too. Here's the weirdest part of the whole story that we've already addressed. Golden rainbow trout. They don't reproduce after they're stocked. The bright color makes them an easy target for predators.

And they also very, very rarely survive the hottest parts of the summer in West Virginia. Here's a quote from a fish biologist about palomino trout that are stocked in West Virginia's northern neighbor, Pennsylvania. Quote, it would be highly unexpected to find a golden rainbow trout surviving as a holdover into the next year. So this state record was most likely stocked three days prior by West Virginia. That's what I'm saying. That's why you even talking about it. Because it's good fodder to talk about West Virginia stocking a state record that some 15-year-old catches three days late. Remember that guy that killed that 1,100-pound hog or something?

Hog zill. And then that dude's like, I just sold him that hog. I got pictures of it in my truck. I'll tell you what, these things were good for is finding the other fish. Because these things can't hide. So you find one. You're like, ooh, there's a bunch of them. The only interesting thing about this image is that man has a very good belt.

I used to wear that belt You can raffle You could raffle off that belt The way that cam works You can clip a carabiner Out of that point I have that belt My kid wears mine now

I reached out to the West Virginia DNR for their take Did this fish defy the odds And survive a previous stocking Or did they release it Two days prior I know but I want to hear them say it I want to hear the West Virginia DNR

Some biologists be like Yeah we just let it off of a truck Three days prior That would satisfy me So I reached out to them Have not heard back yet Oh, God, got excited for a minute. I don't think you're going to hear back from them.

That was state record number one. Here's state record number two. Donnie Workman. There we go. Another man-made trout. Nicholas County sets a new state record for a tiger trout at Summit Lake. You got to stop. That's another make-believe fish.

13.3-3-2-pound fish. Let me tell you about it. It's a make-believe guy. Donnie was using meal worms and orange salmon eggs. He caught the fish on eight-pound test. West Virginia keeps records for length and weight, and Donnie's fish now holds both of those, weighed half a pound more than the old record, which was caught in 2025. It measured half an inch longer than the old record, which was caught less than a month earlier.

All three of those state record tiger trout were caught from three different bodies of water, which is pretty unique. But similar to the banana trout, the tiger trout is largely a synthetic fish that's made by crossing a female brown with a male brook. There is some... I like how he's got it tied up with his bootlaced, though, man. He doesn't need a stringer. He's probably been fishing for 80 years. I like that guy.

I got a guy. I figured out that Spencer loves these man-made fish because he used to work in fish hatcheries. I know, I did. Now, there is some natural reproduction in the wild, but the vast majority of tiger trout come from a hatchery. West Virginia did some stocking in the 1960s and 80s, and then they restarted the program in 2019.

So this rush of tiger trout records is not really. surprised. So the next one's going to be like a new record Chuckie cheese Bermuda trout. Did Donnie eat that thing or is getting a bound? Donnie ate that thing. Oh, Danny, yeah, dude. We're looking at pictures of these state record fish now and Donnie is

someone who I refer to as a paid actor because he looks like a fella who would be catching the state record tiger trout in West Virginia. Is the next thing a real fish? State record number three was a chain pickerel. Oh, there we go. That's a great fish. It gets a little

fake here in a second. Matt Bourne caught a 28-incher on April 21st. He was fishing a private pond in Preston County. The fish beat the old record by less than a quarter of an inch, which was a record that he set in 2019.

What's fake about that? The previous record came from the same pond. Well, he has a private pond that's obviously growing giant chain pickerel. So it's not fake, but, you know, it's a lot better than other fish. It's, you know, this native, same. Private Pond is produced chain pickerel in 2019.

And I don't know how familiar are with chain pickerel, but that's a freaking giant. That's a wild. That's a huge one. Yeah. That's a disappointing fish to fish for it because you never get a big one. No. And Matt was using a homemade spinner that he created the night before. So that's way cool.

That's cool. He's fishing from a kayak and he said the battle lasted 10 minutes with the pickerel towing him around the pond, which again, pickerel don't grow all that big. So that is a water. Ten minutes. What's he using for tackle? He had a 10-minute tussle. He had a tussle with that fish that pulled him around a pond.

I imagine he was using some ultra-light tackle. Pulled him around the pond. That's what he said. I was going to say, if I caught that thing, it would be about three seconds. He planned to get the fish. Plans to get the fish mounted and will display it with his previous record. Nice. That is also mounted.

Oh, so he killed the previous record. So that's not the previous record a year later. No. Well, the previous record is from 2019, so I don't think this. The 2019 fish. I for a minute, thought you were suggesting that he keeps catching this fish and he keeps breaking its own records.

But I bet the next state record is also swimming around that. I don't think you can blame the dude because it's a private pond. I'm not blaming him. I'm just saying if you were disappointed with the fish hatchery fish, you're not going to love the private pond. I'm jealous of his pond. Yeah.

Spencer likes the wrong people. But I also think if the DNR is dumping fish somewhere and you you go out and catch one. And you're like a public access guy. You're just showing up to the river. You hate those people is you hating Brody and Seth.

No, no, no. You're mixing up what I hate. I don't, I don't think if the state has a hatchery and they have brood stock and they take some diseased, tailless fish and like throw it out into a creek and a dude catches it. That's fine. I just don't think it's news.

It's a state record, man. It's a state record. I think if it's Forever enshrined. The fifth state record in West Virginia angling history. A fourth state record was a red horse sucker caught by Zach's roach in Fayette County. It weighed six and a half pounds. Measureed 25 and a half inches.

He caught that on May 7th. Just like the tiger trout, this fish now holds the length and weight record in West Virginia. One pound heavier and one inch longer than the old record, which was caught in 2025. The angler was using corn when he caught that fish. I like the guys in the background taking pictures of the wrong thing. Something else. They have a state record. A bad horse sucker right there.

Talk about like hiding in plain sight. Yeah. They're taking scenics not realizing what they're actually looking at out the corner of their left eye. Uh-huh. This is a state record rough fish. And he was fishing at Canawa Falls. So maybe that's what that fell in the red shirt is getting better because that's a legit fish in a legit location. that's a fish. That's a fish of a lifetime.

Although they often get lumped in with carp. Redhorse or a sucker that's native to Central and Eastern North America, as the name implies, they have red fins. They get especially colorful during the spawn. Now, here's the most interesting thing about Red Horse. They're actually the fish on the trivia logo that we have. That is a Red Horse. Grind them up into sucker balls. What was that guy's name? Zach Roper. Is he mountain it or eating it? Didn't get those details. Yeah, don't ever get a sucker. Red horse. see stuff suckers. Uh-oh. All right.

Fifth state record, and this is the biggest one, is for blue catfish. There you go. It was set on May 9th by Michael Ramey. Now we're talking. It weighed 71 pounds and made, measured 50 inches long.

Man. Michael was on the Ohio River in Jackson County. He was using cut bait on 100 pound test. Cool. He was targeting giant catfish that day. It beat the old record by one and a half pounds, but it was an inch short. of the length record.

So this fish just holds the weight record. Length record was set in 2025 and the weight record in 2023. So both of those were modern records that he was competing for. Michael was fishing in a can't fish tournament that day. It was a five fish limit.

And this was the only fish that Michael's boat caught and it gave them second place. So that one singular fish got them second place in a five fish tournament. He's out of trout, dude. I mean, he's throwing in a hundred, you know,

he's targeting big boys that's it. He's not dropping crawlers off the back of that boat. Florida just certified a new record blue catfish too, like a week or two ago. Man, that is a, that is a, that is a, that is a 20 pounds. It's a good time to be a catfish man. It's 20 pounds heavier than in the inches it is long. It's crazy. Oh, I'm sorry. That's true. This blue cat was caught on May 9th. It's a second heaviest fish ever caught in West Virginia, second only to the state record grass carp, which was caught in 2005. That weighed 71 pounds, 71.69 pounds. So just half a pound bigger than West Virginia's new record, Blue Cat. Michael's Fish was released. So it's still out there somewhere

in the Ohio River. Now, why West Virginia is like suddenly producing all these records? The DNR had some statements about, you know, what these factors are. One is they say the state's water quality is the best it's been in decades, thanks to actions by the West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection. Technology also playing a role like Seth talked about last week with Bill Fish. It's never been easier to locate big fish with sonar. And then finally, and this is probably the biggest one of them, it's that this fish stocking programs. None of those fish were, none of those fish were located with electronics. This one was. Yeah, he found out with electronics? So the best example of all three of these, the water quality,

technology, and stocking programs is the blue catfish. The Ohio River is significant, significantly cleaner now than it was 50 years ago. The species was reintroduced to portions of the Ohio River in the mid-2000s. So this onslaught of blue cat records in West Virginia is because those stocked fish are now reaching like record book sizes. And also this catfish was found with sonar. No. How do you know that? What kind of sonar?

Because it said that in the outdoor life. Just downscan. It didn't give specifics, but it said that they were going by this zone and marked this spot and then fish for this fish. really so technology clean water shit lucking into it weirdly what finding them on like yeah that you'd find a big that you'd find a big record cat

and then target it I think I hear that and I'm like that demonstrates angling prowess in a way to me personally it does that him shit lucking into it would not but it also is kind of like having a live update on a trail camera and going out there

But he let it go anyway. Yeah. Catch that sucker next year with a big red horse and it's got. It's like finding a record. Whitetail and then targeting it. You'd be impressed. Yeah. That's a hell of fish, man.

Five new records. You worked your way up to the good ones. Yeah, he put him in order. He put him in order. This guy, he's a paid actor as well for a dude who would catch a hunter. That guy looks like a blast. The guy who's trying to do the organ anti-hunting legend. He's a paid actor.

He looks just like a vegan activist. Matt and Aaron, he's a paid actor. He looks just like a really cool anthropologist. This dude looks like Bill Burr if Bill Burr ate that catfish. Yeah. That's good. That's good. Unfortunately, all those fish are filled with P-FAS chemicals.

Real buzzkill. Real buzzkill from Seth. A recent study released by the Montana Department of Environment, metal quality shows high levels of PFS chemicals in fish flesh across the state of Montana. So some of you might not know what, you know, a lot of people know what PFS chemicals are, but some of you might not know if you're living under a rock these days. PFS are a large group of man-made forever chemicals used since the 1940s to make products resistant to heat, water, grease, and stains.

PFASA are often referred to as forever chemicals because they do not readily break down in the environment or the human body. They have been widely used in non-stick cookware, stain resistant fabrics, firefighting foams, and numerous industrial products. Research say PFS exposure has been low. link to health issues such as several different types of cancers like kidney and testicular cancer, immune system dysfunction, developmental effects in children, and a ton of other health problems. So the study, so the Department of Environmental Quality in Montana, they looked at

several different bodies of water across Montana, 13 different ones. In fact, the study found that fish tissue samples collected in 2023 contained significant concentrations of PFS chemicals. At least one type of PFS was presented, or was present in 78% of samples submitted. Oh, man.

Of 40 PFAS chemicals, the lab tested for, for the type of or the type that appeared most frequently was bear with me here per fluoro because

per fluoro oil yeah that stuff FOS yeah commonly found where am I here

yeah so that that chemical is commonly found in the firefighting foam used the air ports and military bases, which is interesting because they dump a lot of fire retardant around these parts during the summer. Yeah, because these are fish

out of the Yellowstone, which is an undammed river and doesn't flow through any kind of industrial landscape. It's just, it's like purely like atmospheric contamination. So in late 2024 scientists at the... Oh, no, no, because I guess if you, if Pennsylvania caught them below Billings or not. Yeah,

we'll get to that here. Okay. in 2024 signs at montana dq had completed their analysis and drafted fish consumption advisory warnings for residents to limit or avoid eating fish from several popular waterways however for some weird reason those advisories didn't make it to the public until recently in 2020 and those that's completely separate from like existing consumption advisors that you can find on FWP's website for anybody a water.

So let's get into the details here. An acceptable P-FAS level in drinking water is four parts per trillion. Okay. That's what's acceptable for drinking water. Four parts per trillion. Now, Phil, go back to number one there. Sure. So this is, this is, I'm looking, this is a chart for Fort Peck.

If you look all the way to the right, what, what that, so like, for example, the Northern Pike for 26 to 30 inches that they tested. They found 3.5. That boils down to 3,500 parts per trillion. Oh, shit. Oh, really? A thousand times the... Oh, my gosh.

A thousand times the acceptable limit. So if you look at a walleye, 22, 26 inches, 5,400 parts per trillion. So if you eat one walleye, that size out of Fort Peck, you're... I've eaten a lot of them that size out of Fort Peck. Uh-huh. Number two.

I thought I was already dead from the lead. You think that's crazy. Look this one. East Gallatin River. Whoa. A 10 to 14 inch rainbow trout. Holy. 18,100 parts per trillion.

Wow. But that's fluorotelimer carboxillic acid. Yeah, it's still bad. My goodness. Go to the next one, Phil. I'm just looking forward to all humans being gone. And then millions of years to go by and the planet's cool again. man.

This is the, this is the, this is the forever chemicals that's the whole problem though. They'll still be there.

Like dinosaurs running back around again and it'll be like they'll be all contaminated. No, it'll be the bots. So as you can see

with these numbers, it's like off the charts. I imagine this isn't exclusive to Montana. No, Montana's dealing with it. Yeah, I'll get to that.

But you're, you're correct. It was the inciting incident to the story. DQ scientists recommend stringent In-term fish consumption advisories based on updated guidance from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

The proposed advisories included avoid recommendations for several fish species. For most of it. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's like just don't eat any fish. Man, that's a bummer. Yeah. The most severe recommendations involve for Peck Reservoir. So depending on the waterway, just for listeners, we got like,

I'm looking at avoids. Avoids on Northies. A voids on Wally dogs. Voids on blue suckers. These are voids on browns. Voids on mountain whities. And these are for different bodies of water. Voids on small mouth.

I'm just kind of giving it a general. There's an avoid on yellow perch. Channel cats and Fort Peck. It's interesting that Fort Peck has all those avoids. Like, because that's like the downstream terminus of. Well, if you, if you look at like, everything ends up. up there. If you look at Canyon Ferry, it's not that bad. But as you go down the line, it gets worse.

Like that whole vigilante deal, I was telling you this, when you first brought this up to me, I said, ignore it. I know. I'm not stopping. I don't care. If you told me that those fish had hand grenades in them, I'm not stopping eating them. So you have a different attitude about this than you do CWD. Yes. Yes. I'm just, I know that. I know that that won't be what kills me. I know that CWD won't be the thing that kills you either.

No. No, I'll die of a heart attack later. That was caused by PFA. Tree branch. A tree branch will fall on you. Oh, yeah. The risks of PFAS chemicals are still very abstract compared to CWD, which is terrifying. I'm sure Seth's got more, but like this stuff is, like, there's been game agencies

around the country that are saying, like, don't eat ducks from this area, don't eat deer. I know you're not saying. wrong. You know what? I hope no one eats it. I don't care. I'm saying it. Me personally, I'm not going to stop eating fish because of this because there's like a quality of life issue. We're all going to want looking like that guy,

the guy from earlier. The mobile dude. Sickly and pale and eating potatoes. If I end up looking like that guy, people are going to come to me and say, man, you've really done some lifestyle changes that you look great. You look like you could use a channel catfish

or something. All right. Discipline. So Montana's final recommendations are significantly less restrictive. Steve, you'll like to hear this. Oh, good. The nose proposed by DEQ. Go to...

I just can't stop frying fish. This is just a snapshot of Montana's current recommendations. And it's easy to understand? Well, there's a key here. Yeah, there's a key here. Yeah, there's a key here. look. But anyway, like, obviously that circles with the

X's or the do not consume. So give me an example of what they're saying don't eat. Um, all right. So let's, for Fort Peck, they're saying a walleye for women and children. That's 22 to 26 inches. Women and children shouldn't eat that.

Huh. What does the two mean for like a 26th? I hope my wife doesn't find out about this stupid. That's true month for meals per month. Yeah. Yeah, don't send it. And then the little fish, the fish icon is the safe to eat. Got it. I mean, generally, it's like the bigger the fish, the less you eat of them.

Same like, the takeaway is that the takeaway is that we're ruining the planet. Yep. Yeah, there's plastic and everything. Yeah, Montana is not alone when it comes to PFAS chemicals. Not ruining it, but degrading it significantly. Yeah. This is a nationwide issue. We're not even in the hot zone.

Research indicates, yeah, this is... Where the Great Lakes of Bad. Yeah. EPA has found PFS and freshwater fish on these dots. The 3M. Oh, is it a wild that in Nevada, they found no PFS and freshwater? Because they found no freshwater. In Nevada, no, I'm joking.

In Nevada, in Nevada is the only state I'm looking at that doesn't have a PFS dot on it. You got a wonder if that's a lot. That's because they haven't tested for it. Yeah. There's even black dots there in the south. Pete, there's even stuff in Alaska. Yeah, but then just for people that they're listening and not looking. It's just like dots, kind of parts per billion in composite samples.

And real, you know, most of the country is very sporadic. The Mississippi's got Boku dots and the Great Lakes all the way out of the St. Lawrence Seaway has Boku dots. Yep. I mean, the other part of this story, too, is that the Montana research was all done. That report was finalized three years ago. And they just released it to the public. Yep.

Big kind of. Well, they also just had, you know, like P-FAS stuff because California ban it. So all companies are moving away from P-FAS because everybody's just moving away from P-FAS. So waterproofing on jackets is going to go downhill and hopefully fish quality will go up. But they're forever chemicals, so they're never going to go away. Mm-hmm. He's got to keep eating them fish. That's not my recommendation.

Like, pay attention to what you cook in. If you have a non-stick pan that's coated, you're just... Yeah, Teflon's a big one. Licking P-FAS up. I think that hot grease just fries it right out of those. That's just saying. Yeah, tell it. That'd be like that guy that, remember that legislator that said about CWD?

He's like, just cook it to done. Yep. Yeah. And someone's like, you have to cook it to 9. 9.00. Sun temperature. This is like 1,300 degrees or something like that. One thing I read when doing this research on this is that data centers are the water cycling through data centers is releasing a shitload of PFAS chemicals.

Really? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I had a lot of people reach out to me about data centers. Because they love them? Yeah. No, people that are building them. Building them, working them, things of that nature.

We got a ton of emails. Thank you, everybody. I got to go through them. I got a good, I got a good, I got a good guest I'm flirting with on that subject matter. Not flirt. That's a terrible word.

No, it's chatting. Chatting. Chatting. A journalist. She's doing a book on the whole subject. Oh. You're up. Are you done? That's a great segment.

Yeah, that's it. Are you going to curtail your fish eating? That's what I was going to ask. I haven't honestly eaten a lot of fish in Montana in the last, ever since I got mercury poisoning. A lot of these fish are, like that study shared a lot of that stuff, you're real high in mercury as well. You're not eating the fish because of the mercury? I just eat all the fish, I, all my fish consumptions just Alaska stuff for the most part.

Huh. Didn't you also poison yourself with Alaska fish at some point? No, Hawaii fish. Gulf, golf fish. They should be, you know people got a, they'll put a map up and put a thumbtack everywhere they've been? That's exactly what's doing a thumb tech everywhere has been poisoned by fish.

You know what DEQ should do? They should be sampled. Don't worry about the fish. They should be sampling the anglers. For PFS. Yeah. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart.

IR. Radio. Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must have party bangers. Plus personalized and curated playlists. Like back in the day pride.

Come together. Take pride with you anytime, anywhere. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at iHartRadio.ca. Hunting demands preparation, persistence, and gear that will not quit on you. That is why I wear first light. This isn't about hype. It's about no compromise gear.

Built to perform, built to last, whether it's their industry-leading merino wool, keeping me comfortable through the cold and the hot, or their durable outerwear shrugging off the elements. First Light is built to help you go farther and stay longer, designed by hunters, four hunters, with a deep commitment to conservation and land access. No shortcuts, no excuses. Just gear you can count on.

Head to firstlight.com. That's F-I-R-S-T-L-E dot com. I always tell my favorite story about my dad's buddy that I grew up with one of my fishing mentors, Ron Spring, because he had eaten so much Great Lakes Fish's whole life. He was a commercial bait fisherman. So for a living, he caught bait and then lived off fish. My dad fished him all the time. He used to go for these routine cognitive tests to test to test him for all of his exposure to Great Lakes Fish.

And the punchline of the joke, and I always tell this punchline, the punchline of the joke is he was telling me about, he would go to MSU in Lansing, Michigan, periodically. I came there for those every six months or every year. And they would give him a list of stuff to remember. He was telling me that he'd say, they're like, Ron, you need to go to the store and get milk, eggs, mountain dew, right, whatever.

Tell him a bunch of things he's supposed to. to get at the store. Then he said they'd wait a minute and they'd go, what are you supposed to get at the store? And I remember he said to me, Steve, I wouldn't have remembered that list if I never ate a piece of fish in my whole life. And, uh, you know, so they were looking into this back then. Yep. Yep. He lived to be a very old man. There you go. I sold him a huge snapping turtle one time. and he knew this other dude back in your days of illegal stuff well no no because no because you could get a commercial oh there is commercial yeah commercial turtle back then yep um I later went to profile him he was in he was old he was an old man and I was communicating with him and that because I wanted to profile him I wanted to go out and spend time of him I was pitching it when I was this is

I was writing for outside magazine. I was like, I wanted to do a profile of like a bait fisherman. So he like collects, he would go out himself and collect leeches, wigglers, crawlers, Shiner's, sucker minnows. Like he would be the guy that sold all the live bait. Honest work. Yeah. A buddy has even started a live bait vending thing that didn't take off.

A vending machine to buy live bait. Did he sell himself or sell to bait shops? He had springs outdoors. so he had springs, sorry, spring sporting goods, but even after spring sporting goods ended, he still supplied bait. That was just his business's whole life, leeches, wigglers, everything.

And I wanted to profile him in his 80s, I think he was in his late 70s or 80s, because I'm like, at this point, you know, and he said, I have spent my life developing my methods. I view it as proprietary, and I don't want to show anybody. Dang.

Went to the grave with it. He was not worried about a legacy. He didn't want anybody to put him out of business in his... I was at his place and he had women that would tie. He had women that would do piecework tie and spawn sacks. Where you take that mesh that used at weddings to put mince and peanuts and peanuts in. That's what they caught that golden, beautiful golden trout on. That's what Spencer said.

You put like three salmon eggs. Like three Chinook eggs, a couple little foam balls so it's buoyant and tie it off. He would have women doing piecework tie in spawn sacks. And he put those in those little plastic tubs. They sell flies in nowadays when you buy flies. And you could go and buy like six spawn sacks tied by Ron Spring. Just the last story about Ron Spring. When I was a little kid, this is terrible.

I was fishing with my own man. I was a little kid, and we found on the ice a big northern pike, someone had just left laying outside the hole. Just froze, you know, a fish looks when it's been laying there frozen stiff. It was frozen stiff. My dad picks it up and throws it to me because it's frozen rock solid. He throws it to me, and I catch it. He goes, you caught that pike.

Now, I told Ron Spring. I was probably like five or six. I told Ron Spring. I caught a 28-inch pike. You felt bad. Felt so bad I called him back and told him I lied. Wow. I felt so crooked.

It's an honest man. Patagonia suing a drag queen named Paddy Gonia. Does this individual go by him or heard? Did you read this? They, I think. No. I thought I saw that. I'm just going to say Paddygonia.

I can't believe you could say drag queen and not get in trouble. Doesn't it seem like a thing you wouldn't be able to say anymore, but they use it. queen that's totally fine yeah but there's some things you this drag queen is paddy going now according to patty she heard they them when in drag when in drag uh she goes by she and yeah not in drag win wiley identifies as a gay man who uses he him there you go i'm gonna stick to i'm gonna stick to the in character yes in in drag there's a there's a there's a There's a drag, there's a climate activist, nature, environmental activist. Right here.

Paddy Gonia. Patty Gonia. She claims that the whole thing started when she was out hiking and brought some high heels. And, you know, the craziest part is that she has Seth's mustache. Look at this. Yeah. She was out hiking in high. high heels. Put that a pair of high heels for a photograph.

Not Seth's hair. No, I wish I said I should have never cut my hair. Oh, yeah. So she was out on a hike. She was out on a hike and took a picture of brought high heels, got to the top of some hill, took a picture of her in high heels and dubbed and created a persona, a drag queen persona, Paddy Gonia. She claims that it was not in reference to the clothing company, Patagonia. she claims it was in reference to the Argentinian and Chilean, the region, which is the southern portions of Argentina and Chilean, Chilean Patagonia, Argentinian Patagonia, the south tip of South America.

I just saw it today where Paddy Gonia made a video saying that was the inspiration, the region. but she has a she sells clothing under Padigonia so Patagonia or Pataguchi Patugonia she should just call herself Patty Gucci and it would have been like a double joke then she would have gone after Gucci Yeah they got money You think that mustache is fake?

No no I think it's legit I think it's real Anyways Patagonia's in a real bind here I call this a feel-good story because it makes me laugh. And I called a heartwarming story because it warms my heart. I just think it's very funny. I've been enjoying the story for two days since it came out. It puts Patagonia in a real bind.

But it harkens back to, if you remember, the dispute between North Face. There was a dispute a long time ago between North Face and South Buck. Phil, can you pull up North Face and South Buck? Okay. Oh, not familiar. So this is 20 years ago. North Face came out. A guy inverted the North Face logo and came out with a clothing line called the South Butt.

A kid from Missouri and his dad did this. He was like a student. They come up with South Butt. North Face is like, hey, South Butt, you got to quit. He says, give me a million bucks. And I'll quit. Well, then South But took off. And I'll say, it's not for sale anymore.

So then they come to some kind of undisclosed settlement where he'll stop selling South But close. Signs the settlement and then quickly launches the butt face. Do you got that one? Oh no.

Quickly launches the butt face as like a total FU to the North Face. And then he's found in violation of the deal. Then they're like, okay, enough enough.

So he's like, okay, I'll quit the South, but I'm switching to the butt face. He had to pay 65 grand. Yeah. For butt face. And then, yeah, there it is.

So then he's like, okay, I'll call it the butt face. Because they had never stopped climbing. So he's like, never stopped smiling. The butt face. Totally funny. He loses and he's done. So here we are now. Patagonia is going toe to toe with Patta, Padigonia.

All right? The first thing I thought when I heard this, and I've been around this issue, the copyright thing I've been, the copyright thing I've been been around a fair bit over the years. The first thing I thought was how is it applicable when there is a place called Patagonia? Like, why can't you say, no, I mean the place. It doesn't work. And if you want to think about why that doesn't work, it's like, let's say I start a online,

I start a website that sells everything you could ever possibly want. And I say, I'm going to call it Amazon. And you're like, well, you can't because there's already one of those called Amazon. I'd be like, no, no, no, I mean the jungle. for all the reasons you can imagine it doesn't work to do that. All right. What Patagonia is pressing is like

that they want Padigonia to stop selling merch. But there's a lot of fan art. So Padigone will go on and show fan art that uses the not just the name but the Patagonia logo. And this has been done before. There was a gun company that took like an AR

and made it look like the pad, with the multi-colored iconic mountain scape thing. So Patty is saying, okay, I'll stop using or showing the Patagonia logo, but you got to lay off on me calling myself Paddygonia. That's the deal they're trying to strike. Okay. Padigonia claims that Patagonia has known about her for eight years. but they're cherry picking this political moment,

this particular political moment to make their attack. Okay. The question when you get into this kind of stuff is, does it cause to a layman, does it cause brand confusion? I watched one lawyer speaking about it. And the lawyer was saying, brand confusion would be,

you tell your baby boomer grandma, I want a Patagonia T-shirt. Now, could this hypothetical baby boomer grandma search that up and wind up accidentally getting a paddy gonia t-shirt? That would be like you've caused brand confusion. In the comment section, to this lawyer breaking this down,

There was one person that said, and I think they're lying. He said, my parents are boomers. They've never heard of the clothing company, Patagonia, but they know about Patagonia. Come up. Yeah. That's a stretch. Another person said, another person said, I am a boomer, and I can tell the difference between a clothing brand and a drag queen. So you have conflicting things about boomers.

We should have brought one in. and said, how confused are you by all this? An interesting little wrinkle here about trademark use. And this is the part that I've had a lot of exposure to. When you trademark something, you're trademarking the use of the name for a purpose. And I was trying to think this morning even an example, and I thought of an example. But first, I'll say that for 33 years, Patagonia's held, they have, they held, have held for 33 years that they have exclusive on selling clothes under Pass. of Gondon.

Let's say there's a prominent, you know, like down on the Madison River, there's Blacks Ford. Okay. There's a well-known Ford from historic times. Like, that was a reliable, good, safe place to cross the Madison, Blacks Ford. That's where you would cross. Let's say I open a restaurant at Blacks Ford and I call it the Ford. Okay. And I'm saying, I'm opening a restaurant at the Ford called the Ford.

Ford Motor Company, that's not there probably, I'm using an example, but probably not not their business because I'm opening a restaurant called the Ford at the Ford. But let's say I later go, man, I've developed a truck which is great for crossing the Ford. Okay.

I'm going to call it the Ford. All of a sudden now you are in, Ford is coming after you now. Because now you're causing brand confusion. Your truck, the Ford, which you claim has nothing to do with Ford. It has to do with the Ford

at the river, a judge is going to be like, no, no, no, no. You're creating brand confusion about Ford as a motor vehicle. If you're a person who can create a successful restaurant venture in and around Bozeman and you can invent a motor

vehicle, you'll be just fine without that name. Yes. You're an impressive enough. You need a bridge or something. Impressive person. Bridger motors. Yeah, so you go and get, so if you're establishing a brand, if you're establishing a brand, you don't know where

the brand is going. That's why it's always a good idea to not use a word that's blocked up. Like, let's say you're looking at a brand name and it happens to be there's a kayak company with that name. And you're like, well, I want to call my restaurant that. But then you realize that they have secured apparel. They've secured a multitude of water sports. And you're later like, well, I'm just going to be a restaurant.

Well, what if you decide you're going to sell hoodies? Like, you always got to be careful. You're going to be, I'm going to sell my favorite knife. Well, there's already a knife company. you're using that name. So you always got to be careful about like where all it's been used. In Patagonia situation, this puts them, because their audience, Patagonia's audience is bifurcated. Finance dudes like those vests a lot.

And they like those black fleeces a lot. There's a, there's an understandable story about why finance guys love Patagonia. Because there used to be some very exclusive event and they'd give out like a, like a vest. But if you didn't get invited to the vest to the event, you just go get it anyways because it looked like you'd been to the event. And now it just is that they wear Patagonia vests. They don't know why they're wearing them. No, but there's a history, too, that you can understand. And it's bifurcated, too.

So they have this kind of like right-ish, right-leaning thing. Like, how many investors have you ever met with a Patagonia jacket? They all have one. And then there's, like, a left-leaning element, like a real, like, Ann Arbor, Madison, Patagonia type that are diametrically opposed. Hiker, biker, fly fisher. So here Patagonia is kind of like in this position of going after what would almost be sort of like a symbolic height of the left-leaning aspect of tolerance and things that would

come from their community. Yeah. And Patagonia's ethos is not right-wing finance guys. Patagonia's kind of ethos is. Yeah, they take that money. They take that money and use it for environmental causes that would ultimately be at odds with the people giving them all the money by buying all the vests. This is very unscientific. It's just like observational. If there was like a woke business spectrum that range from like Trump Mobile to Starbucks, like Patagonia is in the Starbucks category.

Oh, they're beyond. Yeah, very far. Yeah, because Starbucks is always duke it out with unions now. They've kind of lost their like leftiness. Point is they're like on this spectrum. They're very far left. Yeah, way woke. That's a good way of putting it. Way woke.

And now they're attacking like the fringe woke side of woke. But here's why they're in a pickle. If you don't enforce your copyright, it counts against you in future copyright infringement things. Part of having a copyright is it is enforced. Because if someone goes, if I say I'm going to name something, I'm going to come up and say, I'm going to name an aftershay. And I'm calling it Burma Shave.

Well, in the 20s, there was Burma Shave. It's not around anymore. So if Burma Shave has gone lax and has not enforced Burma Shave for 100 years, right? Is that with an E or you? B-U-R-M-A-Dash shave. And they became famous because they would put these sequential billboards up that would have a message, a rhyming message. So I was reminded of this recently because the tourism board in Arizona is putting out. Burma shave posters, even though the product isn't around anymore, just like a nostalgia thing.

Poor example, but what I'm saying is, if Patagonia doesn't go after Paddy Gonia, and then an AR company uses it, it's hard for them to go after the AR company because it'd be like, but you don't enforce your trademark. You allow all these other people to do it. But now you're starting to saying you're going to all of a sudden enforce it with this person. So you have to be diligent. That's why they're in a bind. And now, Paddy, Gonia, has made a video saying stop the suit. She's very articulate. She says, don't take this out on the employees at Patagonia.

It's not their problem. Don't be hostile. Be respectful. I'll stop using the logo, but they need to stop the lawsuit about me using Padigone. I don't know where I stand on the whole thing. Patagonia is suing for $1 plus legal fees. And then the quote is, we wish we didn't have to do this,

says. I wish it didn't have to do everything at work. The company said the settlement will require Patagonia to withdraw all trademark applications, stop using Patagonas's logos, stop selling and promoting apparel and other products as Patagonia. yeah. I don't know who I'm rooting for. I think like, I feel like I'm rooting, I feel like I'm rooting for Patty.

Who are you rooting for, Spencer? I hope, let's go Patty. Yeah. I wish I didn't have to do this, but you have to. Here you are. Now who you think is right. Who do you're rooting for? Not, I don't want, like, don't give me some lawyer BS. Just give me like, like in your deep down heart of hearts, who you're rooting for. I Come on, Randall Who you're rooting for? Patty

Corinne Patty, but I understand the trademark thing Dude, I totally understand it I totally understand it I'm just saying like who It's like for the future I know but at a point You've been around so long

Right You just become like the cultural It's like you're like The cultural fabric And there's gonna be actually been around so long and have been like so ubiquitous and like in such a part of the American dialogue that someone would be able to not like goof on it a little bit. Yeah, I always stand up for parody, you know. It's like you're kind of like goofing on it.

You're goofing on a thing that's just very, like I don't think this is going to hurt their business. That's the thing. It's like, is Patagonia, the company really going to like take a financial hit here? But that's not what it's about. I know, but I also feel like they've demonstrated they're looking out for their own trademark. You know what I mean? I know they're right. I know they're right, but I'm rooting for the other person.

Yeah, so am I. I wouldn't do anything different if I was in their shoes. They probably need to punt and just make Patty like a spokesperson at this point. Because what they've done now, because what they've done now, that's why in my notes, I have up top, puts them in a real bind, by which I mean a real pickle. and part of the pickle is that this went for being oh, I went to look and see if I could get some, not that I want some, but just see if I could

get Paddy Gowing your merch. Guess what? Sold out. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like one of those deals where careful what you talk about. Yeah. Careful what you talk about. Because they all of a sudden, I've never heard of this thing.

Like, I've never heard of the brand Padigonia or the individual Paddygonia and now Streisand. The whole world knows about it. Yeah. So you got to be a little bit careful of what you yapping about. And my understanding was that they had

somewhat of a friendly relationship until I was a reasonable I know it was like it was very loosey-goosey and this lawyer I was looking at was dismissive. It was something to do with like Hydroflask and Pat... Yeah. I'll admit I didn't dig into this one as deeply as I would if

I were doing a real hard hitting. Can we get Patty on the show? Investigated. That would be great. ask Patty some of these questions. Yeah. We should have Patty Goni come on the show. She might have to go by a different name while she's here, depending on how it was he goes. Yeah. We had a Von Schenard on before.

We should have Padigone on. Like, fair and balanced. Should have them all together. It would be a debate. I guess he's not involved in. That'd be an ambush set. That'd be an ambush. That's not a bushwack.

It'd be an ambush if you didn't tell him. Depends if we're hiding. I wish that it was a long time ago. and we could have done our story about North Face and South. But that's just flat out funny. It's a shame we can't talk about that. That's flat out funny. This is different.

The thing that impressed me the most is when I went and watched Paddy Gonia's video explaining the whole situation, I was impressed by the clarity and articulation of the issue. I was impressed. I was impressed. As a presenter, I was impressed. Like, speaking of trademarks, how do, how do we? we do the Bambi thing without getting in trouble? Public domain, right?

Because certain things after 75 years ago, public domain. I didn't know if that, like, Mickey Mouse, I feel like came up in public domain. There's a little bit of dice. Specifically, the Steamboat Willie version of Mickey. Yeah. When we did our Bambi, we did our Bambi shirt and I think that it had gone public, sometimes you roll the dice. Yes.

We did a, we did a Metallica thing that the lawyers warned us against. We did a Guns and Roses thing the lawyers warned us against. Bambi is, I think Bambly is now public domain. We did an Elmer Fudd. Maybe we rolled the dice on that. Maybe we'll get like a get yelled at by Disney. I don't know? Who owns Warner Brothers?

Seems like he'd be his own man, don't it? Yeah. Elmer Fud. She's like, I'll never sell out. He's catching tiger trout in West Virginia. He's like, you'll never buy me. You wascaly people Um

Anyhow All right Thanks for joining the news show Listen If you like the news show Where is this little thing My call to action Yeah

Subscribe to the YouTube channel Subscribe to the Me Eater podcast Sorry Oh yeah Subscribe to the Meat Eater Podcasts YouTube channel And if you're listening On Apple,

Podcasts, Spotify, What have you? Just click follow And you'll keep up on all the news. All the important news. And then give us five stars. Give it five stars. This is the real news, man.

Ain't no straight of hormoos bullshit over here. This is the real straight dog. Someone catches a big man-made trout. We're on it. This is where you get the news that matters, man. Not a bunch of fake bullshit news. Thanks for listening. Check out Phelps' new Bear Cub distress call.

Springtime is the right time. to use a bear cub in distress sound when bear hunting. Male bears will kill cubs in order to get females to cycle into another breeding opportunity, and the sound of a cub in distress also signals to other male bears that a meal is close and even a possible mate. A bear cub in distress will also get the attention of a female bear to come and investigate to defend a cub dragging any male suitors she has in tow. Not to mention, a cub in distress will also call other predators in,

as they're looking for an easy meal too. your own bear cub in distress at Phelps game calls.com. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.