The MeatEater Podcast - Ep. 893: A $6 Million Marlin, Fake AI Wildlife News, and Killing a Colorado Wolf

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Steven Rinella and the MeatEater crew discuss: The punt gun video is imminent; hipster Brody; the lack of chill from a lakeside tiki hut owner; the killing of a "protected" wolf in CO; how AI misinformation has infiltrated wildlife news; a life changing marlin out of the Big Rock tourney; elk tag tax fraud; and more. Connect with Steve and The MeatEater Podcast Network Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Join me and follow the podcast conspiracy theories, where we explore what's really going on behind the official narrative. Like, what if the Loch Ness monster isn't a monster at all, but an elephant? What do the richest 1% know that we don't? Why are they building all those bunkers? And really, what the heck is going on with the Denver airport?

Join me every week to see just how high up. Up this goes on the Spotify podcast, conspiracy theories. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the news show this week. We've got a lake access dispute in Wisconsin that you really need to pay attention to. We got a new word neo-native that you really need to learn. A ranch hand in Colorado kills a wolf and that needs to be okay. Seth catches a 919.9 pound blue marlin.

Or at least you'll tell you about one. AI is being used to make up and push fake wildlife news. Randall digs into an elk scandal as well as some elk BS and more. But first, we never do this. Yeah. From the news pile. From the paper news pile. It's nice.

Oh. Mixing it up. It's like old school. I never read the mail that comes in the mail. I'm going to cut this one short. This guy, he's a kid. It's 13. he says but not

to my main point I like that already but not of my main point I would love for you guys to do your best at not cussing on air I really don't enjoy going to bed with Steve's son of a bleep and Randall's mother bleep

in my head oh I wasn't on the list that makes me happy he'll someday appreciate that he says every time you swear you should put $100 and donate it to a college bass fishing team. Oh, that's a good idea. That is a good idea.

Piper Nicholson wrote, he's a little kid. You can tell by his writing. Anyways, he wrote this nice letter. I mainly took note of the envelope. It says, P.S., I named a possum after you. Steve the possum. So thank you very much to Piper Nicholson.

Oh, our punt gun video is finally coming out. Years ago, we bought a punt gun at auction for $20,000. You're probably sick of hearing us talk about the damn punt gun. It just took us a bunch of... The dang, punk gun. Dadgern, punt gun. Sorry. Sorry, Asa. What's that his name?

Asa. What's his name? I think it's Asa. Asa. Yeah. Sorry, Asa. My cursive. It took us forever to make the punt gun video. It's very complicated. We explained why it took so long in our punt gun video, which is

out like now, is. soon. Play a clip, Phil. Oh, sure. All right, let's load it up. So here, this shows the punt gun. There's a swear word. This is the part of the punt gun video when we shoot watermelons.

That's the punt gun cocking. And that's the punt gun going off. And that's the watermelons blowing up. Alla Gallagher. So tune in now. We shoot all kinds. of stuff in the punt gun video. I think you're going to love it. Brody got a truck camper and he's got something to say about that. Yeah, I got to I posted a picture on Instagram. I don't know why. I saw that picture.

Yeah. Um, so, you know, people are doing this a lot these days getting those like, fold up truck top camper thing. Hibster campers. Listen, they're not. Um, I got a real, but I'm, yeah, I'm getting called a bozeman hipster for getting one of those things. For years, I just slept on a sleeping pad. under a regular topper. I got old and uncomfortable. It's not uncomfortable. My wife does that.

She's not out there trying to prove anything. I just, look, I just wanted it. I had actually a good reason for getting it. That's because if we want to take the, if we want to camp and take the boat with us, we would have to take two rigs because we have a pop-up camper and a boat. Understood. Now we can take one rig in the boat and go camp.

It's a cost-saving thing. I'm just joking. I don't think anything different of you. Yeah. But I think these people don't really understand what hipsters are. I don't think hipsters are like... That's why he said Bozeman hipster. In fairness, they'd have like a refurbished airstream or some shit like that. Oh, sorry. In fairness to them, Spencer, Spencer Newhart is the primary advocate of trucktop campers in the office. He was, and I used to make fun of him. Does he have one? Mm-hmm. And he loves it. Me and Steve used to make fun of him. He's ever made.

Wow. No, I'm looking forward to you. in that thing during deer season, man. I've been thinking about getting one of Alibaba once. It's like the same thing you bought it here, but like a fraction of the price. Yeah. Oh, from that like,

whatever. That website. Yeah. I understand. From here forth, hear ye, from here forth at First Light, First Light has a new Camel for Conservation Program. When you buy camo, any kind of camo clothes at First Light,

a percent, one percent of that sale price goes directly to our conservation partners. Okay. Straight up. When you buy camel at first light, 1% to our conservation partners. The program is called Camel for Conservation. So check that out. Two, you see the new Custer's last stand shirt?

I like it. I like the color. Very colorful. Very, uh, pops, man. So you know when you're taking a whiz. Oh, they got him in the heart, huh? Yeah. When you're taking a whiz in the bathroom, you're looking at the,

Here fell Custer. And Custer's kind of like hunker, like he's sort of on a hands and knees dying. But down the hill there's a guy dying like this. Yeah. Can you fold your laptop down so he can, the audience. Oh, yeah. So Custer's kind of dying in a lame way in that painting. So when we wanted to do a good Custer's last stand shirt, we had the guy down the hill

be Custer and modeled, uh, just kind of a more zippy, you know, like his guns going off. What about his long, flowing blonde hair? You don't know this? He didn't have that? He got a cut for the campaign. Oh. He died brown like in that shirt? Yeah, died short hair.

And he wasn't wearing the regulation hat. Yeah. And his wife, Libby Custer, had a wig made with the hair he got cut off and wore it around. Yeah. Sidney's going to do that for me. Kind of weird. My wife wouldn't be able to do that either. Okay, here's the deal.

I said there's a word, neo-natives need to know. So a guy wrote in, I'm a PhD student in the Department of Ecology and Conservation Biology at Texas A&M University. He's currently studying invasive species management in the Great Plains. He's looking at Audet Diet and their impact on the Chihuahuan Desert ecosystem. That's him establishing his bona fides. In the most recent episode, number 890, concerning mule deer in Alaska, Steve remarked that he wasn't sure whether invasive was really an appropriate term for the Mulees in this situation. He says he would have to agree with me, and he put an exclamation point there.

He says, in fact, there's a new term for the expansion of native species ranges into previously unoccupied areas. This new term is a neo-native. For those taxa, they have expanded geographic. beyond their native range and that now have established populations whose presence is due to human-induced changes in the biophysical environment, but not direct movement. That's the perfect word. See, when I was complaining about there not being a word for it, I didn't even think that you'd go make one up. It's great. And he goes on, he does say, like, human influence, like, canals, roads, pipelines.

tunnels like we talked about. Yeah, a neo-native. Yep. It wasn't moved, but we did something that, like, created the situation. What would be another neo-native? Well, the encroachment of woody plants under the Great Plains due to insufficient grazing practices. Yep. But like animals. Coyotes for sure. Ciles for sure. White tails. White tails for sure. Yeah. White tails are neonatives and all kinds of new places. Yeah. It's a great term. I'm going to start using it all time. Fantastic. Whoever that guy was. Daniel.

Thanks, buddy. This next letter, this next email, I should say, is something that we heard from a lot of folks, and this is about the Big Oaks National Wildlife Refuge in Madison, Indiana. He writes, this refuge has an amazing history of once being a testing range for army munitions. To recreate here, you must attend an annual class about the dangers of unexploded ordinances in the refuge. It's open to hunting.

Turkey and deer opportunities are available through the DNR's reserved hunt program, which is basically a draw. Small game hunting is open on a portion of the refuge. The Fish and Wildlife Service has had an agreement with the Army to continue its hunting program. But they're considering changes to the agreement due to budget problems. And he's saying... Is it expensive to let dudes hunt? Well, I think it has to do with staffing.

They had a big rattle. in Madison about the possible closer of the refuge. There's an online petition that you can sign and this guy's telling folks to write to their senators and voice support for Big Oaks NWR funding. That's funny because I don't think there's a day that goes by that there's not a rally in Madison but the fact that there's a pro-hunting rally in Madison catches me by surprise. Madison Indiana. Oh, well, Madison. Still a good thing. I thought I meant that Madison where you'd always have a rally. Yeah. So they, it's 50,000 acres.

Yeah. Why'd I say that? There's 6,000 hunters annually that, that take advantage of this. And essentially they, the refuge manager retired last year. Following Rob, following this guy's retirement, refuge staff were cut from five employees to a single offsite manager. And then last month, there was a notification that it was going to consider. severing the MOU with the Army, which would close the refuge altogether.

So again, this is one of those opportunities where if you don't speak up, no one else is going to. And yeah, I mean, there's not a ton of, like in the Midwest, any acre of public land is immensely valuable. We kind of take it for granted out here, living in Montana. But Indiana can't afford to lose 50,000 acres of public land. So make your choice hurt. Did you mention the part about him here in? turkey shock goblin to A10 warthog guns? No, he didn't put that in.

No, no, no, I was trying to get to the, I was trying to get to the call to action. He says, yeah, but I would never leave out the good parts just for that. It was an oversight. Just an editing note. It was an oversight. A small interior portion of the refuge is closed to hunting because the Indiana National Guard uses it as an air to surface test range. I can personally attest to Turkey's shock gobbling to A10 wharthog guns.

Mm-hmm. That would be. that would be very interesting. So yeah, make your voice heard. All right. Lakers and Barrow Trauma. We did that a little piece on the many state record Lakers coming out of Minnesota from one fishing guide like a week or two back. Had someone right in in episode 887, you folks talked about the guy out of two harbors.

I follow this charter on Facebook and see all the bunkers. I think he meant lunkers. He pulls out of the depths and it is extremely impressive. His question is about survival rates of a fish of that size being pulled out of 39 degree water from 80, 90, 100 plus feet deep. He understands the fish is being pulled up through the water column slower than trolling, but he's still got concerns about like how the fish would handle it. Do you have any thoughts or answers to the concerns of fish fatality?

If you go on Facebook, you'll see a mix of, wow, huge and nice, you killed it by throwing it back. I did a little research for you, and it turns out that Lakers and all salmon, it's like trout, char, whatever, in the trout, salmon char family, they're all less susceptible to barot trauma. Got to pull this stuff up. They're called physistomis fish. this means they possess a specialized pneumatic duck that connects their swim bladder to their digestive digestive tract which allows them to burp out excess expanding gas. Barrow trauma you'll see them their guts are all blown up their eyes are sticking out of their head. It's pretty gruesome. So this means that Lakers deal with it coming up and it also means

if they do get it they deal with it better going back down. But if the fish is reeled up too rapidly, they can get it. They can't expel that gas fast enough to keep up with the barrow trauma. And this can create severe pressure on their organs and cause internal bleeding. Some studies show 20 to 40 percent mortality can occur when lake trout are brought up very fast from extremely deep water. But like we hook those kings in 200 feet of water when we're halibut fishing and they come up fine, you know. They like run to the surface. They use themselves.

Yeah. Before you even know you got him on, he's already jumping out in front of the boat. And you're like, hey, look a salmon. Yeah. You have a bunch of slack line. You're like, a night break off. What happened? Physistomas.

They got a little duct in their swim bladder. It helps with that. Okay. Here's some news. I found this in, I did additional digging on this, but I was made aware of this in Wall Street Journal. but this story is a story that pops up now and there because it has to do with some particulars about the state of Wisconsin's water access rules.

This story involves a dude, a dog walker that lives in a suburb of Milwaukee and his name is Paul Foresheim. There's an old man shoe company Foresheim Shoes. and I was like, why was I reading about Flauchime shoes recently? Well, it turns out, also reported in the Wall Street Journal, this is an odd little wrinkle.

This is like a news wormhole. A couple of months ago, reporting the Wall Street Journal is that Trump has taken a shine to Floor Shime Shoes. Taking a shine to him, that's like a pun. He's taking a shine to Floor Shime Shoes. Did you know this?

Yes. No. To the point where he likes to do a thing where people will come, he likes to look and try to guess their shoe size. And then give them shoes. So that he can give them Floorheim shoes. Here's where the wrinkle gets even deeper. You think of him normally as somewhat vindictive.

Right? Like he keeps in mind who's slighted to him and he wants to come back around and get them. Floorheim shoes is suing to get back their $20 million in, illegal import duties that they were. So when the Supreme Court struck down the illegal duties and you could get your money back, Flaersheim wanted their $22 million back. They're also very reasonably. But he loves the shoes.

He still loves something. You sure about that? This has nothing to do with the story. This is just an added little wrinkle. It says that he gets a kick out of guessing people's shoes in a court. And there's a rumor that he said, I think in a conversation with Vance and Rubio. he said, I can tell a lot about a man by the size of his shoes. Play it, Phil.

And I saw... One pair of cowboy boots coming up. What size? Uh, size 12, double E. Boy, big feet. Well, you know what they say. No, what? Big feet.

Big boots. There you go. I knew I heard that somewhere. There's some Peewee's playoffs. So back to the story. Here's what's going on in Wisconsin. You got this Floorsheim gentleman. He's a Paul Floresheim, grandson of the founder of Floresheim shoes.

This has nothing to do with anything. Nothing to do with anything. He lives a lot near the lake. And for 50 years, this gentleman has walked his dogs up and down the beach of Lake Michigan. This is not like a local little pond of Lake Michigan. He has walked up and down the beach. well and I'm sorry to report to you Dennis out there

but this involves a dentist a dentist really gets to where this is driving him nuts because he owns a property on Lake Michigan again this is Lake Michigan yeah this can't be the only guy walking around on

but this guy this dentist gets a real case of the ass about this his name's Daniel don't Magala. 50 feet from the water's edge, he has a Tiki Hut, like a Jimmy

Buffett-looking Tiki Hut. It puts off major Jimmy Buffett vibes, except for the giant keep-out sign. It's like, he's got like, like, you can picture Buffett is never going to write a song about keeping people off the beach.

Get off my beach. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It would be so un-Buffet-like. But this guy's got a little Jimmy Buffett Tiki Hut and in there he's got alarms that when people come on the beach he blasts them with alarms to drive them away. Wow.

In one summer, last summer, the dentist, Domagallam, called by his own admission. And one summer, he called the cops 50 times to complain about people walking down the Lake Michigan shoreline. Now, in Michigan, and in most places, when you imagine the shoreline of a lake, it's a legal definition.

It's like, it's the shoreline is from the average low water line to the average high water line. And you'll even see in legal definitions, even from the Supreme Court, even pointing out there's like a debris line where seaweed collects, a line where you can visually see the impact of waves. Like if you're walking in wet sand, you're good? Yes, because you're seeing the impact of waves. It's just defined and defined. But in Wisconsin, years ago, back in 1923, a guy that was water and cattle in Lake Winnebago, got in a dispute with a guy that was walking down the lake. And somehow out of this cattle argument came this idea that Wisconsin doesn't accept

average high water, average low water. In Wisconsin, you got to be in the water. because they pegged it to navigation. And you're not doing navigation out of the water. And usually it's okay. But because of this dentist having a connoissell all the time, the cops finally came out and they're like, I got to give you a ticket.

This guy won't stop calling on you. He takes it to village court. Okay? He goes to village court and the judge says, my hands are bound because of this uh i'm trying to think because of domal v jance he's telling the floor shime guy his hands are tied the judge she the judge says i got to make you guilty i have to make you guilty because i'm bound by domal v jance which is a 1923 supreme court of wisconsin finding about this dispute between a guy watering cattle in lake winnebago

in a guy on the shoreline, an access dispute. But the judge holds out. I don't know. Maybe it's time that gets overturned because we're out of step with other states. That's interesting. So, Floor Shime is appealing this. I saw a quote from that said, he ain't, like, he ain't taken this quietly. No, he ain't bagging down.

Yeah. He ain't bagging down. What's funny is, they sent a photographer out to take a photograph. of him. And for the photograph, he's standing out in ankle deep water, but he's standing out in front of the Jimmy Buffett, Tiki, up in ankle deep water for the article. So then that guy's probably in there just praying that he walks up on the sand, you know. So that that's going on. And this is like, this has major implications because think about the length of shoreline. we're talking about Wisconsin's Lake Michigan shoreline.

And what's happening here is people are building sea walls and other obstructions to make it that, like, to force it that you'd have to go around up on the beach but then saying, hey, you can't go up on the beach. Right. I just can't believe this, the dentist is saying he's equating it to a home invasion. Oh, my God. He's like, if someone comes in your house, what are you going to do? because this old timer is walking along the beach and got out of the water.

So there's two things. There's the legal of it all. And I love it that he's, I love it that he's appealing this. There's the legal of it all. And there's also just the like, when you wake up in the morning, man, like, what kind of dude do you want to be that day? Do you want to call the cops 50 times? Because there's an old man walking not with his toes in the water down the beach. Yeah.

I mean, if that guy was, like, walking down the beach and his dog was taking a crap right by the teaky hut every day, then, you know. His dogs are leashed. I'm just saying, like, if he had a good, he doesn't have a good reason, right? Yeah. So when Floresheim argued his case, he argued on the public trust doctrine. Hmm. Okay. He said, because of public trust doctrine, and these other court cases like that established that, like, duck hunters could duck hunt out in front of private

property, all this historical stuff. But again, it was thrown out because this had gone to Wisconsin State Supreme Court. So maybe he'll get it overturned. There's also old legal stuff from the admission of the state, of the admission of

Wisconsin into the state. And that has said anything that flows into the Mississippi or the St. Lawrence, it should be open to navigation, but points out because you had to do portaging. It has land. language that basically says and the walking routes.

Because of course you had deportage. So it's a really confused legal picture. I wish the guy luck. That's the end of my news story. It does look like a nice tiki hut. Yeah. It's a great place to sit. Pour yourself a marguerite and yell at old men.

Dial up 911. He's not representative of the island mindset. Yeah. And yell at old man. walking along. Happy Pride Months, Toronto. Pride is an opportunity for you to create your own space,

to celebrate your existence. IHeart Radio is proud to be an official sponsor of Pride Toronto Festival, and we won't stop. Celebrate Pride. Turn up the love and listen to IHeart Pride Canada. Your 24-7 radio stream and the only playlist you need for your Toronto Pride celebrations.

Pride is so great because it gives a whole bunch of people this visibility that they've never had before. We have a ton to celebrate. Celebrate Toronto. Happy pride. Iheart radio. Hunting demands preparation, persistence, and gear that will not quit on you. That is why I wear First Light. This isn't about hype. It's about no compromise gear. Built to perform, built to last, whether it's their industry leading merino wool, keeping me comfortable through the cold and the hot, or their durable outerwear shrugging off the elements.

First Light is built to help you go farther and stay. longer designed by hunters, four hunters, with a deep commitment to conservation and land access, no shortcuts, no excuses, just gear you can count on. Head to firstlight.com. That's F-I-R-S-T-L-I-T-E.com. All right, we're going back to the Colorado Wolf Desk. We haven't been there in a while. This just came out recently.

that the actually incident happened in March, but a ranch ham working at the Nottingham Ranch in western Colorado, shot and killed a female gray wolf from the King Mountain Pack that happened on March 10th. And it turns out she was like the matriarch of a pack. They had they had pups last year. The mate had died during a collaring operation just a couple months before the female died. the female died. So these pups are now like without their, their parents, their leaders. Um, so, you know,

people are on top of it. Uh, the ranch hand and the ranch manager came forward and, and like, they weren't trying to cover this up. But the, the details that where it gets kind of weird is, um, the, the way they described is the wolf was like threatening cows. Oh, they run 1,100 cattle on this ranch. It's like it's a cow calf operation. And according to the ranch owner, Susie Nottingham, the employee fired two warning shots before killing the wolf as it moved towards cows with young cats.

So it didn't actually actually take a bite. No, no, no. It was, it was quote, threatening the wolves. And this is why it's like a big deal because there's a legality question involved. Like, what does a wolf have to be doing? before it's legal to kill it because under Colorado's well I don't think he was going up to say hi no but yeah no I don't usually do that

but there's this experimental population rule right which says ranchers may legally kill wolves if they're caught actively attacking livestock working dogs threatening human safety etc okay conservation groups are obviously arguing the thing was not actively attacking right and it should involve criminal penalties under the Endangered Species Act. So it's a real like test case for for like what a wolf has to be doing before a rancher can legally, you know, legally kill it.

Was it in the act? What constitutes an imminent threat? What evidence is involved in this situation? Did the ranch comply with reporting rules, which it seems like they probably do it. Is there any mention of yardage? No, I didn't find it. any specific distance. That'll probably be,

certainly be part of the investigation because it approaching it at 50 yards or it approaching it at 10 feet are really different things. Oh, definitely. Definitely. But you also have to think if it's a calf. Yeah, it was calving season. Yeah, so if it's a calf,

it's not going to be a really long time between it getting no. Getting a hold of it and you having a problem. Exactly. Yeah. And, yeah, they're very vulnerable that time of year, both both the mothers and the cows. And, you know, I personally think you got to give ranchers some leeway in this situation.

It's not as if it doesn't sound like they were like out hunting wolves, right? To get rid of them. The other part of it is they came clean right off the bat. Yeah, exactly. Which if you, like, you know, you know, there's a slight parallel to this would be that in a situation where you're being threatened by a grizzly bear, you might kill it self-defense. It's going to get investigated. Yep. And they're going to come out and do like a regular forensic analysis.

Like, where was the bear? Where are the tracks? Where's the shell casings? And sometimes you'll read where they're like, yeah, he was in an imminent danger. And sometimes you read where they feel like they got a little jumpy. Yeah. And maybe this would lead to. some level of distance, some kind of physical distance at which you could take action.

Yeah, some kind of guideline on where you can get away with it. Interestingly, just about less than a week ago, a few days ago, Colorado and Parks, they killed a wolf, lethally removed a wolf after repeated livestock depredations. That particular wolf was involved in the deaths of at least 24 sheep. So like, yes, this other hadn't killed anything yet, but, but like, it's not as if CPW isn't going in and killing wolves that are, that are killing livestock. In fact, the state, the state has released 25 wolves in the last couple years. Fourteen of those have died, not all of them in incidents like this, but several have been killed because of livestock, uh, depredation. So where does that, do you know,

where does that population sit right now? It's 32. And how many were moved into the state? 25. So 14 of those original 25 were dead. So 11 of the originals are alive. That would lead to 21 that were born in the states in the last couple of years. So they're taking hold.

Yep. Yeah. We'll see what happens. I don't know what will happen to that pack that no longer has like a matriarch or a patriarch. We'll see. You know, for a while it's real big on that word, an apophysis. an apophysis is bringing something up by saying you're not going to bring it up. Right.

What you do when you're like fighting with your wife? The example I use is you go like, or your wife would usually say to you maybe she'd be like, I'm not even going to talk about what happened on Friday. That's an apophysis. Yeah. Brody and I decided not to cover a story about some guys in Colorado. We're not covering this. some guys in Colorado who are saying

since the 20 since the 2016 election was rigged no 2020 was rigged well no because that because that wasn't rigged 2020 was the one Biden one oh what am I saying

yeah sorry you're right sorry 2020 yeah since the 2020 election was rigged it must have been that the wolf vote was rigged was rigged too. Yes. And they want to overturn it. So therefore it didn't actually pass because we all know it was rigged. Yes. And they probably rigged that too. But we weren't going to cover that story because I just need to read about it more. But just so you know. But that's that's a thing.

But yeah, we'll keep an eye on this to see if they end up charging this guy or not. I'm going to predict they don't. I'm going to predict they don't. Yeah. If they did something totally fishy. like went and shot some puppies in a den or something. They wouldn't have said, hey, send someone over. This just happened. You know what I mean? But that's right. And the other thing is, I forgot this little detail.

I think you might have mentioned it. It wasn't even, it was the ranch owner that reported. Yes. So she's like, the Nottingham's, this is like a little editorializing, but having spent a lot of time in that area. Like the Nottinghams are like an old school, like, well-to-reys, do Eagle County family. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think they, I don't think they feel like they got anything to hide and they're just laying it out. Yep. Yep. My old stomping grounds right there, man. Who's next? You? I am. I'm going again. Back to you. I got to figure this out. What am I doing?

Hors shit news stories. Beep. Oh, man. Bill, can you pull up that picture? Yeah. This is the weirdest. This one is the weirdest thing. I was, I don't spend a ton of time on Instagram. But I don't know what a couple weeks ago I sent this to you, Steve. I was scrolling through and this came up. This is the name of this page is outstanding. It's out with two T's standing. The description is curating business technology and breaking news in one place.

342,000 followers, including some people I know, like you can see who follows, different pages. And so they said this. Conservation is confirmed wild jaguars breeding in the United States for the first time in decades. Trail camera, yada, yada. If you go on to read what the post has to say, it'll say that trail cameras in June 2026 caught pictures of a female jaguar with Cubs in the Arizona wilderness, like the Sky Island areas that we've talked about before. Light by 12,200 people, shared by 3,400 people. by 3,418 people.

Yeah. Even goes on to say that there's strongly suggests that a breeding population is establishing itself north of the border, and that the female and cubs were found in areas monitored by the University of Arizona Wildcat Research and Conservation Center. So I'm looking at this, and I'm like, wow, that's amazing, right? But then I'm like, huh. It would be reported everywhere. Yes, like I immediately went to Google and like typed in some stuff that would lead to any news articles surrounding this event.

Couldn't find any. But like Google AI kind of went on to confirm what this Instagram from that from just from that. So the lesson is like, oh my God. The lesson is like if you're getting news from not and all of you probably know this, but if you're getting news from social media or. or AI, like, man, you just got to be careful. If you're wanting how long to boil like a hard boiled egg, the AI overview can save you a lot of time. But it comes to anything slightly complicated.

And I can't tell if this, this outstanding page is even written by humans. It may be completely AI generated. But the point being, this is not true. Yeah, it's completely untrue. And like this, this page appears like a legit news page. has some legitimate new stories on the page. But anyway, I got suspicious. emailed our resident wildlife biology expert Jim Hefflefinger.

From Arizona. From Arizona. And immediately, he's like, this seems like it's probably horseshit. Horseshoot. Yes. $100. To bass. Some college.

From your kids college fund to some other kids. So he, I feel like that's not, that doesn't go. Hors shit. shouldn't be included in there. Yeah. It's like to point out that this, this writer says, I know Phil does a good job at bleeping them out,

but it's not enough. Yeah. Sorry. You know what's weird? I forgot to tell you that this kid said, this kid said, sorry, Barati, interrupt your news story. No, finish yours and we'll get back. He thinks Randall should host

more Roses episodes. Huh. Don't tell Janus. Ooh. Yeah, don't tell you honest. Anyways, back to this. Back to Hefflefinger. He did some digging.

And right off the bat, he smelled a rat. He did some digging with some of his colleagues. And basically, yes, it's a hoax and plus some legitimate detail surface. And I mentioned, you know, this. Dude, I've looked. It's not real. Oh, I know it's not. I mentioned this could create headaches for wildlife managers.

And yet, like, one of his colleagues, seems to constantly be dealing with stuff like this. Like there was a post that came out about, uh, Mexican wolf releases going on that, that had never, it had never happened. So,

he said there's a photo. So there was a article about them releasing Mexican wolves in northern Arizona with a photo. Yeah. Well, it turns out the photo was from Mexico. Mm-hmm. So. Yeah.

Even wildlife management is getting hit by this stuff. now. Oh yeah and hefflefinger said this too. That fake article, the fake article about wolves, which is like what a weird thing to fake. Well, this is too. Even had fake maps with fake GPS tracks on it. Yeah. What are you gaining from that? I don't, I don't get it. But the problem just yeah, clicks and shares. The problem is it's like, cha-ching not to like pat our own back here. Like we're able to recognize this stuff. A lot of people that saw that would just be like assume that it's true. There's like no reason for them to think that it's not true, right?

That's why you've got to come to the news show for your news. Yeah, formally trained newsmen. Because we check out, we dig into everything and check it out, man. Mostly using the internet. Try to dupe us. It ain't going to happen. So we get on the phone and call people. Suckers.

Over to the fishing desk. A new record was set at the 68th annual Big Rock Blue Marlin tournament, which I talked about this with the whole Omni Sonar thing a few weeks back. uh with a blue marlin that was 919.9 pounds big old fish go the previous record was 914 pounds that's like a bunch of me laying they say how long that like me and me and me i don't know how many times a bunch of times laying there yeah it's slightly like a big pile of me's unfortunately it's slightly less than four of me they they mentioned when they i saw in a news article when they brought it in they mentioned

that the head of the fish was in the in the saloon of the boat it was so long taken out of thing didn't fit on the whole back deck the boat marlin fever which is a 63 foot jet bay from Wilson County North Carolina was the boat that brought in the giant fish boat's captain by captain Cameron Guthrie and the angler who caught the fish was

18 year old Connor Daniel young kid yeah young kid which you saw that the fish was 20 years old Yeah, that fish was two when that dude was born. Yeah, I bet that fish. I don't think of that. If he felt a disturbance in the force in the second year. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I don't like catching fish older than me.

I mean, I'll do it. I'll eat them, but I don't like it. So this fish was the heaviest fish ever weighed in the tournament's history. And the payout for this fish, it won two categories. And the total payout was $6 million. $513,187.50. That is, that has got to be taxed in a very burdensome way. Like, I just feel like when you go to the IRS and you're like, hey, I won six million bucks in a fishing contest.

That it's not like that it's that they have a special way they're going to handle that. Slide that over to the let's get these guys desk. Our friend Brandon Pollanick was telling me one time that they're, their tournament, like their tournaments are in different states, you know. So they get, they get taxed for their winnings in every state. All different ways. Yeah, all different ways. There's probably good states to win in and bad states to win in.

Yep. $6,500,000. Yep. Look at that. And it's the largest single boat winning in the tournament 68 years. And that's the biggest tournament. Yeah. Wow.

There's only ever been six. blue marlin in the history of this tournament, weighing over 700 pounds brought to the scales. Can you imagine duking it out with that fish once you started realizing what you had? Took two hours. And then when you're like, hey man, you know, be careful with the gaff because that's, you know, six million dollars. Your kid's like, I'm going to gaff it. I'm going to gaff it. So this fish was caught on day two of the tournament.

it's a six-day tournament, but you can fish for the six days. So you can choose like what days, depending on weather and whatnot. I wonder if the rest of the people are like, forget it. I want to keep fishing. Oh, I just go fish tuna, dude. But I mean, you could still potentially win more money, you know, second or third place, which is, you know, still a bunch of money. Yep.

So this fish won the overall heaviest blue marl. category and also it won the fabulous fisherman prize which is the first blue marlin brought to the scales during the tournament that weighed over 500 pounds and that comes with the prize of 871,000 dollars in addition or no that's just part of the purse yeah but yeah if you bring in the first blue marlin weighing over 500 pounds that's how much money you win so this boat fender bender catches a 64 yep And that's not good enough. That's the second place.

Second place fish was caught by Fenderbender. 644 and a third place fish was haphazard. Brought in by haphazard weighing 635. Great boat names. The total payout split between 47 money winners was $9 million, $38,225. There was a total of 270 boats that fished a tournament. Um, and just to compare this fish to the current world record, not even close. Blue Marlin. Yeah, not even close.

She's caught in 1992 off the coast of Brazil, um, weighed for just over 1,400 pounds. Hmm. Amazing. And this lifting that there's still fish that big out in the ocean. Yeah. Uh, Seth had another thing that he didn't think was worth putting in his story. Would you like to share? Well, I was, I was going to mention it.

Um, but. I read that this fish had, I read two sailfish in its stomach. Yes and no. It had a sailfish in its stomach. And it had a different sailfish's bill lodged under its gill covered. Man. And he's still out eating. I wonder if that's just like him trying to eat, like the one in the gills if he's trying to eat it or if they're like duke in it.

My theory, and I don't know, I just read it, I thought, did he get in a fight with a sailfish, or was he trying to eat and it got jammed over? I think it was like, if you're eating Northern Pike and you wind up with a bone stuck in your throat, that's my theory. That's the equivalent of you having a pike bone in your throat. It's him having a billfish bill in his gill. Yeah. But I don't know. You'd have to ask him. It's got to be a tough fish to eat.

4,400 pounds for the world record. World record, Blue Marlin. Size of Alaska Bull Moose. And I can't believe also that you can kick one of those off in 20 years. Yeah. Now, me and Seth want to get invited to that tournament, but I only want to go if we can catch a couple Wahoo and some tuna just for eating. There are some categories for tuna and, like, dolphin and stuff like that.

I think you guys go out and cess walleye boat. I think if you just troll Mahi. There is an outboard division. If you pick up a 900 pounder on day two, you should be fine to just go out and fish for the freezer. So if you need a couple of guys to sit around who don't know the first thing about Marlon fishing, we're both interested. Yeah, I would love to go and just check it out. Just watch. Yeah.

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No shortcuts, no excuses. Just gear you can count on. Head to firstlight.com. That's f-I-R-S-T-L-I-T-E.com. Off to New Mexico. Off to New Mexico. So there's a story, there's a couple interrelated stories here

that I'm going to thread together. And the first one is there's a recent article, or I guess a recent news story about a high-profile case of tag fraud. but it speaks to a larger discussion about opportunity allocation in New Mexico. So three guys associated with bighorn outfitters were obtaining elk tags through the resident draw system and then transferring them to non-residents in exchange for payment.

And so what they did is they created fake hunter profiles, fake names, fake accounts. they drew tags and then requested medical transfers to their clients. And so in the state of New Mexico, you can get a doctor's note. And then instead of that tag going back into the draw for the next Joe Public Hunter, you can designate who receives your tag when you turn it in. So they're creating all these fake accounts, drawing tags. Those dudes are all getting sick. They're all getting sick.

Yeah, and they're forging the doctor's notes. And so these guys were charged with wire fraud and Lacey Act violations. Even still, it's really bizarre that they were able to draw this many tags. Like they drew 13 resident elk tags with 29 fake profiles. And so there's some speculation that they had even more fake accounts that were not discovered. It does add up. Yeah. I mean, this is all, correct me if I'm wrong, this is all linked to the fact that

Like elk tags are notoriously difficult to draw for non-residents. In New Mexico elk tags, correct? Well, I can attest. Yes. So what's interesting here, and the other thing is this could not happen as far as I know, most Western states, you couldn't pull this off, right? Because you can't just transfer tags like that. And what was interesting to me about this is the U.S. attorney who announced the indictment,

his quote says as a hunter, I know it's extraordinarily difficult for New Mexico residents to draw elk tags. In fact, many New Mexicans who apply annually wait years, sometimes decades, to draw a coveted tag and win the opportunity to fill their freezer with elk. And so that's premium unit. Yeah. Yeah. But still, it is relatively speaking, it is hard for New Mexicans to draw elk tags. And allocation of tags in New Mexico would probably shock most people who are familiar with how this works in other states. Every Western state has landowner and outfitter tags, and it's weighed against public opportunity.

But in New Mexico, it's something like 60 to 70 percent of tags go to the general public and about 30 percent are private. whereas in most states they reserve more than 90% for just any person applying to hunt. So it's 10 times the norm. It depends by species in terms of antelope tags, New Mexico, almost 65% of them are just privately distributed. 16% of all bighorn sheep tags are privately distributed. And a lot of those tags, like, you can then go online

and like it's like a bidding war for those tags. Right. So the private tags, what we're calling private tags here, divided between a mandated outfitter set aside, and then the private landowner tag system. The private landowner tag system accounts for the majority of those. I think it's like eight to one, something like that, of these private tags.

And they can sell or trade them on the open market. Ostensibly the reason being to help offset the financial costs of managing wildlife. The other thing that's sort of unique to New Mexico is in most states where there are landowner tags, their requirements for allowing public access to private lands. New Mexico does not do this. It's just cutting off a big old chunk of the public resource

and sliding it across the table. But I want to jump in here and explain a part of that. Sure. You will see, like in some states, I believe Colorado is this way. you might see a open unit or closed unit landowner tag. If you, let's say you have a rancher and they own a ranch. Can I explain open and closed unit?

Yeah. I think this is what you're getting at. Some tags. That's what I'm fixing to explain. Okay, go ahead. I'm trying to paint a scenario. Yeah. Let's say you're in it,

let's say you have an area, you have an area where you have a private ranch in a county. and there's also a ton of national forests in the county. And the rancher, the rancher's got 20,000 acres, and he gets two elk tags every year that he can sell as a way to offset his inconvenience for hosting wildlife. But you'd think so when he has his landowner tag,

it must mean that whoever buys that tag from him hunts his ranch. It's not that way. If it's an open unit tag, he can sell you the tag and you don't even touch his property. You can go hunt the national forest. So you got guys buying landowner tags hunting public land. But there are, what state has a closed unit one? Colorado has both.

So they all have tags where you can only hunt the landowner's land. And then you can hunt the other, what you were talking about where you can go anywhere in the unit and hunt. Yep. Yeah. So this, I mean, again, this happens in every state. And there's, it's like a spectrum of, of how favored one side of the, the pie is versus the other. I've bought, I've bought two of these in my life in New Mexico.

I bought a landowner pronghorn. I bought a landowner out tag in my lifetime. Full disclosure here. Yeah. And you can't get mad at outfiters. Hate the game, not the player. Exactly. Right.

It's the system. Like, like landowners now. are defending the status quo, tag buyers are participating in the system as the system's designed. The issue is lawmakers who are stacking the deck in this way, right? Policymakers who are stacking the deck in this way.

There's two stories that relate to this that could set the stage for a change in how this works. And again, it's like, it's not happening anytime soon or it's not happening immediately, but there's one lawsuit that was just settled. Some landowners in the western part of the state in Catchan County claimed there are too many elk, and it resulted in an unconstitutional taking of their property.

They wanted additional compensation from the state because the elk were eating their grass. They're saying that there's so many elk, they have to reduce the size of their herds. Some of them are saying they have to sell their ranches because the elk are eating too much. And their claim is that the state intentionally introduced the non-native elk herd, managed its population to grow dramatically, and knowingly relied on private lands to sustain the herd. This went to district court, which ruled that the unconstitutional taking of property claims were invalid, but it left open the question of whether or not the elk could be considered a nuisance that the state has imposed. And then the state court of appeals upheld the rejection of the unconstitutional. taking a property question and went further, it threw out the idea that elk can be a nuisance or that more technically that the state could be responsible for any nuisances caused by elk.

So it backfired on that dude. Yeah. And the state, so the quotes from the, the quotes from the decision are like reaffirm that the people own the elk, the state manages them. And it sort of says the elk exists. The elk have a right to be there. They say, because the state is viewed as the trustee for and not an owner of wildlife, governments that regulate the well-being of wildlife do not have a liability for the actions of that wildlife. And it also goes on to say the regulations that these guys are complaining about says none of the regulations require authorized elk on private properties, nor do they prevent property owners from building fences to keep them out. So in some ways, the court is pushing back against sort of, in terms,

entitlement by landowners to compensation for the wildlife. And it kind of draws, redraws a bit the boundaries of that relationship, right? Because a lot of these privatization of tags, they're a product of the acknowledgement that landowners do sustain wildlife. And that's legitimate. But the state is kind of drawing a line or the court is sort of drawing a line in the sand there. I would be curious to hear if this individual, like, how many elk tags are available in this area? Right. And if this individual is allowing hunters to access his property to hunt and thereby disperse the elkards.

Right. Or if it's, well, I don't want anyone on my land, but I don't want the elk here either. Well, yeah, and that's where a lot of these conversations end up. It's like there are tools available in the toolbox. It's just if some landowners don't want to utilize public hunting pressure. Yeah, it sounds like this guy just wants some payment for the fact that he's being inconvenienced, additional payment. Yeah, and so the other story that ties to this, and this is more directly related to the question of tag allocation, is that on April 29th, lawmakers, in New Mexico wrote to the Attorney General about two questions they had about the current tag

allocation system, noting that it seems to be in, quote, significant tension with the anti-donation clause in the state constitution. And New Mexico's constitution is an anti-donation clause that prohibits the state and other governing bodies from making donations of public funds or property to or an aid of any private person, association, or corporation. So the two questions that the lawmakers specifically raised had to do with mandatory outfitter licenses under a set percentage. And one of the reasons that this is sort of politically, I guess like one of the reasons that

a New Mexico lawmaker might question that to make political hay is that 90% of those outfitter tags are going to non-residents. Got it. It's out-of-state money buying these tags. tags, instead of these tags going to the people of New Mexico who own the wildlife. Yeah. It's like they're making donations. Exactly.

This is the kind of law dog. I always thought I wanted to be a lawyer on sweepstakes and raffle law. But this kind of law dog and is real interesting. Wildlife and justice. And I mean, kind of looking out for the residents of New Mexico goes along with what's happening in some other states already, right? Like you're seeing states that are taking extra steps to make sure that residents get more of the available tag.

Right. But that is a very compelling legal argument. Yeah. And so they say their quote in the letter is, we know of no other state, this is in reference to outfit or licenses, we know of no other state that confers such a benefit ultimately creating a system where those with the greatest wealth from across the country have a better chance of hunting New Mexico's public lands than average New Mexicans. Wow, they're taking a populace.

Yeah. And specifically, something to note here, they're not. They're talking about outfitter tags, not landowner tags. Sure. Which, if you're talking about creating more opportunity for new Mexicans to hunt big game animals, you'd take aim at those landowner tags because there are way more landowner tags and outfitter tags. But here we have a case of lawmakers kind of standing up for Democratic allocation of wildlife. So I don't want to poo-poo it, but on the other hand, there's bigger fish to fry.

if you want to see more New Mexicans enjoying that opportunity. God, if I was Phil, I ought to put up a video of a dude stirring a big old pot soup with a canoe paddle, man, because these dudes are stirring the pot. How about a screw? I'm sure Phil looked for it. They just couldn't find it. A screeching eagle, a screeching eagle with an American flag. If he had like a hat that said law dog and was stirring this big old pot with like elk antlers

sticking out of it with a canoe paddle, that would have been sweet. I did see something, Randall that like, T-shirt design. If they reduce the number of those guaranteed outfitter tags, non-residents would still end up booking the outfitters anyway, was one argument. Right, right. The other thing that the lawmakers are questioning is the fact that in New Mexico, for bighorn sheep licenses, which are, you know, that's the biggest dollars there are in terms of hunting opportunity,

the way that they do it is they combine the hunting units to determine how, many big horn tags go to the private pool versus the public pool. Yeah. Every other species, they're issuing these licenses and dividing them up on a per unit basis. Yep. But they're combining all the units for big horns. And as a result, the number of licenses counted for determining how many outfitters is artificially increased. Can I, I don't understand, but can I explain part of this?

And then you can explain part of it to you. I just want listeners to get a grip on what we're saying. Sure. Montana's 10% cap, right? So Montana caps, like take Big Horn Sheet, no more than 10% of the Big Horn Sheet tag allocation in Montana can go to non-residents. But you have units that only give out one Big Horn Sheet tag. So you would say, well, how in the world could a non-resident ever get the tag if there's only one in that unit?

So what they do is they do it region by region. You count up how many big horn sheep tags are available in all of region three, which is combined by many units. So say in all of region three, there are 20 big horn sheep tags. Therefore, two can go to non-residents. And it could wind up being that a non-resident holds the only big horn sheep tag in a unit. With that said, I don't understand what you're saying. So I think one of the problems is that they only do this for big horns. They don't do it for other animals.

My understanding is that like in your, if they were to, if they were to chop up that pie into smaller pieces to determine before determining who gets what, it would sort of incrementally the percentages would drop if that makes, does that make any sense? I'd have to have a really good math person who's used to. explain the stuff the children. Yeah, I think... Come in and tell me about it. I think the idea is that like, because they have to round, they have to round up or round

down, as the pie grows, it rounds up further. I couldn't actually explain it in any detailed sense. I should have acknowledged that right off the bat. Yeah. But the lawmakers, to get back to this letter, the lawmakers say taking each of these issues individually and together, what are the consequences? constitutional implications in terms of the state's obligation to manage New Mexico wildlife in trust for the benefit of the people of the state. So the attorney general has not issued a response yet to yet to this. It should be happening any day now.

So a lawmaker can go a lawmaker can go to the attorney general and say Can you justify this to me? Yeah, they're looking for an opinion. Yeah, and then he's got to come back and go, man, it really doesn't make any sense. Yeah, exactly. I don't know why that's legal or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think like the big picture, you might be, the listener might be thinking,

I don't live in New Mexico, I'm never going to hunt New Mexico. Why does this matter for me? And the folks that I talk, I should say, I talked to people in New Mexico, Jesse DeBelle from New Mexico Wildlife Federation, they they point out that new mexico could be a cautionary tale for other states because again this is a it's not something that's like um by itself unique to new mexico it's a it's a sliding scale and in other states they have similar programs but it's slid way far in one direction in new mexico and and last year's montana uh legislative session they talked about transfer a belando

tags. It's probably going to come up again. Wyoming, there's just a push for transferable landowner tags and that kind of got killed, but it's going to come back in another legislative session. So once you make these tags transferable, it opens up Pandora's box for this sort of the fraud case that I started with. But all in all, like, people own the wildlife. And it's just like democracy. people own the wildlife you should be able to have a say and how it's how it's done right and and new mexico too like stream access it's new mexico is sort of on the front lines of of privatization of public resources and they just had all these stream access cases where guys are barb wiring and concertina wiring streams to prevent people from accessing them

there's guys digging out river channels they're too deep to wade and just like the compliance with stream access, there are people in New Mexico who are seeing how far they can push it in terms of privatizing some of these resources. So I think we should all be paying attention to that. I don't want to condemn any state that does landowner tags. Yeah.

And I'm sure there's places where it's beneficial to some sectors and some user groups, and I'm not here to condemn it. I'll say this, though. if I lived in a state that did not have transferable landowner tags and someone was proposing to make that a new thing, I would stand in opposition to that. Yeah. I would want to, I would want to maintain the status quo of not doing that in a situation where we were asking whether we should start doing it. Not to say that places should walk back because they might have a successful system.

But I wouldn't want to be in a state where that went into play. Yeah. And it's a push and pull, right? There's, you know, whenever you talk about opportunity allocation, there's people that should say, oh, we should get rid of points. We should make it a random draw. We should. And then you get into the questions of rest of it. But I have a lot of points, though.

I know. That's not a good idea. Well, that's the thing. And every- New Mexico doesn't do points. So there are a lottery. Everybody has the right to say what they think should happen. Yeah.

You know, and the people that stand to benefit from undemocratic allocation, they're definitely making their voices heard. So if you're someone out there who's sort of a wildlife populist, you should weigh in, too. You know, like NIMBY? What would it be if you were saying not in my tag holder envelope? NIM. NIMF. NIMF.

Yeah, not in my tag holder envelope. Because I would say if New Mexico also was like, hey, we're kicking in points, then I would be like, well, you sons of bitches, better go back in time and give me my 20 points that I never got. I was like, this better be retroactive. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm, you know, it's like as hunters, we should be having these conversations.

And like when you look at New Mexico on its face, for me, it's kind of like, Like, man, I feel for the people there. Yeah, and it always, you know, like you get like a, you get a sort of, like a state establishes a reputation, you know. And now then you'll hear a story out of a state and you just won't be surprised. Right. Meaning when Texas said, hey, even though Texas historically had elk, we're going to all of a sudden now pretend the elk are non-native. I, no disrespect to Texas. I like going there.

I love the place. I was like, that feels so Texas. Right. When I hear stuff out of New Mexico, I'm like, that doesn't feel New Mexico. It's real close to Texas geographically. And I think there's, I think part of the reason why it's such a hotbed for this stuff is there's that money and that influence. Oh, shape is Texas. And second homes.

Yeah. At least with the stream access stuff, I know that a lot of the, a lot of the people behind that, a lot of the people that are fighting stream access. It's people from Texas. Carpet baggers. So for those that's what I hear. And not watching Randall threw his hands up in the air.

You got to get on YouTube for that. That's right. If you want to see Randall throw his hands in the air, go check us out at YouTube and subscribe. And now Apple Podcasts. That's true. I heard app as well. Thanks to joining everyone. The only place to get the straight news. No BS.

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