The Megyn Kelly Show - A Mom and Small Business Owner, On How She Ended Up at the Capitol January 6, and Fighting Against COVID Lockdown | Ep. 58

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

Megyn Kelly is joined by Lindsey Graham, a small business owner dealing with COVID lockdowns and restrictions in Oregon. She talks about the way she fought back against the regulations and the way the government came after her, but also talks about how she wound up at the Capitol on 1/6 believing she was part of a "holy war," what she saw that day of the riots, the media sources Graham and other Trump supporters she knew would turn to, what she thinks now after Trump was not able to pull out a victory and Biden was inaugurated, fraud claims and the Trump election lawsuits, what made her believe "conspiracy theories," and what she thinks is the future of Trump and the GOP.Graham's personal website: https://PatriotBarbie.com/Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShowFind out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Today on the program, something extraordinary. A woman named Lindsey Graham, not the senator from South Carolina, but a mom and business owner who's been living up until recently in Salem, Oregon, with her family and engaged in what she's called an act of civil disobedience against the governor's highly restrictive lockdowns there back in May. Now, originally, we booked Lindsay because we wanted to talk to her about that as part of the COVID show that we aired a couple of days ago. But in the midst of the interview, it became clear that Lindsay is an extraordinary woman. And she was very open and honest about not only the lockdown and what it did to her, but the Capitol Hill protest and riot

and why she was there. She did not participate in the riot. She says she did not storm the Capitol. She went to the Capitol and she listened to President Trump. And she she did us the favor of walking us through how she got there that day and how she got to a place of believing that indeed that day the election would be overturned. And it was an extraordinary view into the larger picture of what happened that day and spoke volumes about where we are as a country. We're going to talk to her in a second, but I just, I just want to talk to you about why I think this is so important. In the wake of Trump's election, right back in 2016, some of the media decided it was time to do some soul searching. They were stunned. How did it happen? How did we miss it? They asked themselves. Papers like the New York Times hired folks like Barry Weiss. She told us that just the other day.

She's a center lefty. They wanted, to their credit, to help understand. They wanted to understand a wider range of voices, including Trump supporters. She wasn't one, but she was about as far right as they'd go. And as she explained to us on the show the other day, that experiment ended in disaster thanks to the Times' nonstop internal bullying of her and intolerance of the very ideological diversity they purportedly sought out in an effort at, quote, understanding. But over the past four years and certainly over the past few months, we have seen zero effort to understand Trump's core supporters. The media and the Democrats hate them.

And it shows. And I understand there's political differences, but the media is supposed to be an impartial arbiter. The media is not supposed to let their own opinion infiltrate their reporting because it's important that people on both sides of the aisle trust you. But the media has surrendered to their hate for Donald Trump and for MAGA at large. The patriots, as they call themselves, are loathed by the press. We have seen all of Trump's voters summarily dismissed as racist, bigots, xenophobes, transphobes, misogynists, and on it goes. And since the Capitol riot, it's only gotten worse. Now they're actually saying you're a Klansman. You're a Klansman. If you were at the Capitol that day, even just to listen to Trump,

some are being canceled just for attending the rally. Forget the riot or the walk to the Capitol. The media from Anderson Cooper to The Atlantic has openly mocked the Trump supporters there that day as lowlife, classless, poor, olive garden eating deplorables. You remember that from Anderson? And it does no good, right? It does a lot of harm. You would think maybe the media would ask themselves, how do we lose so many of the people who were there that day? How could we do a better job of reaching them instead of mocking them? How could we become an acceptable option for them so that they could hear what we, the MSM, mainstream media, deem to be facts? You would think they'd stop to ask that and you

would be wrong. The media seems content to simply judge these people as untethered loons without ever pausing to ask, did we play any role in forcing them away from our newsrooms? And that's where Lindsey Graham, Oregon mom comes in. She's a business owner in Salem, Oregon. She was at the Capitol that day. She did not riot, but she was a true believer in Trump in a stolen election and in what she called a holy war to keep him in office. We spoke with Lindsay a few days ago, as I said, with an eye towards discussing her rebellion against the COVID lockdowns and the resulting blowback from her governor, something over which, by the way, she's now filed a lawsuit. But the discussion morphed into how she wound up at the Capitol

on January 6th and came to believe Trump could hold onto the presidency that day. And the discussion was riveting, riveting. I sat and thought about it for a long time. It really affected me. A week ago, prior to knowing Lindsay or speaking with her, I actually tried to raise some of these points in an interview with the BBC. I suggested that the media could use some self-reflection right now, that blaming Trump obviously made some sense for what happened at the Capitol, since he created the story of a stolen election and then fanned the flames for months. But I said that the media, too, bore some responsibility for the distrust in information behind the willingness to believe those claims. Here's part of what I said. I mean, I think the media destroyed itself, but Trump certainly helped. You know,

he sort of set a trap that they walked right into and it worked really brilliantly. I remember listening to all of his disparaging comments about CNN when I first when he first became a national figure as a presidential candidate. And I watched a lot of CNN, even though it's on Fox. And I was like, this is unfair. CNN may be a little boring, but it is fair and it's factual and it's not biased against Trump. And then they spent the next four years proving him right. Right. Proving me wrong. They jumped. They hated him so much. They checked their objectivity and it wasn't just CNN. All of them did. They just couldn't check their own personal feelings about him. Either that or they signed on to what I call the Jorge Ramos theory of covering Trump.

He was at Univision and he advocated prior to Trump's election that we needed to cover him differently, that you needed to outwardly call him a racist, sexist, misogynist, all of it, and that that was important for history. And I think too many journalists agreed with that at their own peril. Part of the reason we saw what happened on the Capitol here two weeks ago was because there's been a complete lack of trust, destruction of trust in the media, and people don't know where to turn for true information. They don't trust the media anymore, and it's a major problem. I stand by every word of that. Every word. Well, the supposed luminaries on Twitter attacked it,

right? It made me trend as they often do. But once again, they do so at their peril. The media refuses to see the truth, right? People from the New York Times were attacking the sentiment. The Democrat, the Democratic coalition was attacking the sentiment is just baffling. They actually used that word. This is just baffling. There's no willingness to take a hard look at how we got here if it involves any accountability by the press or the Democrats and the overreaching they did. The story of Lindsey Graham, mom, wife, business owner, patriot, tells the real story. Listen and you decide whether distrust in the media helped drive Lindsay to her acceptance of Trump's claims, her presence at the Capitol that day, and her belief that the mainstream press loathes people like her. Before we roll that for you, let's pay the bills for one

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and then use code RADIO for 30 free days of protection. That's code radio at hometitlelock.com. Joining me now, Lindsey Graham, the Patriot Barbie, which is so much better than the senator from South Carolina. I love that moniker. And is it born of the fact that you own hair salons? It is born of the fact that in a liberal Salem, where I opened my business and was cancel cultured, um, the liberals made a meme out of my face, wearing a MAGA hat and called me Patriot Barbie. And I thought, well, that's not an insult. I like it. And so I took it. I'm going to own it. Good for you. I like that. I read you had six locations. Is it all the same

business? No. So we have six. We had six businesses. We had four tanning salons, a gym, and then my hair salon as well. Okay. And you and your husband owned this together? Yes. And how long did it take you to build up these businesses? Well, I've been building my salon for almost 12 years now. We've acquired the tanning salon slowly over the last six years. And the gym was actually brand new. We just opened it. We worked for about a year on it before we opened it right before the shutdowns. I imagine you don't you don't have huge margins in these business where, you know, you make a ton more than you owe on the lease and

the facilities? No, absolutely not. That's why we have six. We can't just operate on one. How many employees do you have? The tanning salons and the gym probably had somewhere between 30 to 50 combined employees. But I didn't have any employees at my salon itself. Was it just you or you just had independent contractors? Yes, it's just, I had independent contractors. I had about 25 girls at the time of the shutdowns. Okay, so last March rolls around, COVID hits and you get the order that you have to shut down.

And as I understand it, at first you said, I got it. I'll do it. I understand. And you did. I got it. I'll do it. I understand. And you did. Yes. Yes. So March 23rd, Kate Brown ordered a complete lockdown of all non-essential businesses. And so we did close down our gym, our tanning salons and my hair salon for, it was only, it was only for about six weeks before I decided that we would most definitely not survive financially. We would not survive if we continued at that pace.

And she wasn't offering up an opening date. So can we talk about those six weeks? I mean, I I don't own I guess now I do. But at the time, I didn't own a small business. And I just I wonder what it's like to have put all those years into these businesses and then watch the expenses continue to ratchet up and the income go to zero. Can you just help us understand with someone about how when you lost your job during a lockdown, it was as simple as applying for unemployment. And not only did they grant you unemployment, they granted you extra bonus money just for the heck of it.

But business owners did not get that same courtesy. So like you're saying, we were shut down and told we couldn't operate. We still owed rent on all six businesses. We still owed the, you know, financial debts, like, you know, interest rates and credit card payments on equipment and rental, things like that. We still owed the utility bills on all those businesses. And so a lot of these businesses, like you said, don't have a high margin of profit. And so you use those, you use, you know, the income every month high margin of profit. And so you use the income every month to pay those bills, and then you take that money home to your family. Well, now, not only do we not have that

money to pay those bills, we don't have the money to bring home to our family either. And upon paying those bills, a lot of business owners were basically digging into their retirement, digging into their savings, or I mean, completely going bankrupt. Because it's not as simple as just closing down and not having an income. It's actually they're deducting your income. They're going into debt, just trying to keep the businesses afloat. I know that's what's crazy to me is, you know, here in New York, we have rent abatement. So okay, you don't have to pay your rent during the time that we've mandated you not be in business, but it's still ratcheting up. You're going to have

to pay it when we go back into business. It's like, oh, how are they supposed to do that? Are they just magically supposed to get a year's worth of income to pay back the landlords? And so I can understand a sense of panic setting in. I mean, how would you describe what you were feeling? It was, it was a little bit of panic. It was most devastation that we had. You know, I personally had spent my entire adult life building the business that I was working in, and I was also doing hair as well. And so I was losing money as a stylist, not working. And it was sort of this overcoming feeling of, if I don't do something, we won't survive this. This is all we do. I can't go out and get a, quote, essential job to accommodate the lifestyle that we've

established being business owners. It was very much a panic and devastation and concern for not that immediate moment, but our entire future as a family. What would we do if we didn't have these businesses? We don't have other careers. We're not licensed in other areas. We had just built a beautiful home for our family. We would literally be filing for bankruptcy and finding new careers and starting over in a life that was completely unknown. And we actually had a newborn at the time. And I was thinking, I can't, I can't do, I can't start over with my children. So I need to stand up and do something. How many kids do you have? We have three, one is almost seven,

one is four. And then the newborn is now 10 months old. Oh, wow. Before we get to what it up, be patriots, right? They were using that word in that, in that way, you know, we're fighting a war and you're just going to have to, like, we don't want to hear about the pain of business owners because people are dying. And this was back in the, you want to kill grandma phase of the pandemic for people who raised concerns like the ones that you're voicing now. So what was your reaction when you saw this kind of thing discussed in the news at the time? So from from the very beginning, especially watching the media, I felt like something was amiss. The the numbers made sense. But the way that they were promoting them did not make sense to me.

And being a business owner who was shut down immediately and knowing the devastation that was going to fall upon millions of Americans financially, it didn't make sense that that wasn't being reported. But, you know, two people dying was being reported. And so I felt from the very beginning, I felt very skeptical, skeptical about what the media was portraying, what the news was saying. And that didn't play a role in opening my business because, because I didn't believe the agenda that was being promoted. And again, like you're saying, the government agencies that were so eager to shut us down are the same people that are still collecting a paycheck and their medical benefits and all the perks that, you know, they were so quick to take from us. And so the same thing, you know, watching the news feed that, knowing that, well, of course, your job is essential. You're still getting paid. So you're going to drive into everyday Americans how cautious they need to be because you don't have to practice what you preach. So it's a lot easier to do as I say and not as I do.

So we get to May 2nd and you had decided that I would open my business. I didn't realize how controversial it would be. It was a decision that someone needed to because otherwise, how long would we be locked down? And I was okay with doing it because I felt like our family specifically desperately needed to. And so it actually got on the media on accident. I had posted in a group on Facebook that I didn't realize was public. And so I said, Hey, fellow Patriots, I'm going to open my business. I'd appreciate your support. And then that started getting shared and it went viral

pretty quickly. And that's when the news started contacting me about reopening. So at that point I had accidentally kind of committed myself to this, uh, to this big adventure. So what, how quickly did, uh, governor Kate Brown or her, her people crack down on you? Oh, before I even opened, before I even opened my doors, I, I planned to open on May 5th and on May 4th, I was at the salon cleaning and getting ready. And Oregon OSHA showed up, came inside and said, listen, if you open tomorrow, we're going to come back. We're going to issue you, you know, a thousand dollar citation. And then you're going to close.

And if you don't close, we're going to issue you a $70,000 citation. We're going to red flag your door, says your facility is unsafe. And it's going to be, you know, basically permanently closed until that $70,000 citation. We're going to red flag your door, says your facility is unsafe, and it's going to be basically permanently closed until that $70,000 citation is paid. So that was before I even opened my doors. And did you open? I did. Yes, I did open. I'm very, very thankful for Americans, especially patriots, conservatives. They immediately shared my story. They immediately opened to GoFundMe and made sure that if I did receive a $70,000 citation that I was taken care of. And so for me, it was like, all these people are counting on me. I didn't realize this would be a big deal. I didn't realize this would be the threat before I even opened. But because

financial despair was my biggest concern, knowing that those citations would be would be paid for and I'd be covered. It was, I was able to continue forward bravely, you know, because of them because of their support. Because it turned into a David and Goliath situation, people were, they'd had it with a lockdown and the stifling of business. And they saw you as as somebody who is being civilly disobedient. And they liked the point you were trying to make. I let me ask you this, because I know you come from a long line of military folks, pro pro police. And I could definitely as somebody who practiced law for a while, make the opposite argument. You know, the thing that binds us together is the rule of law. You might not like it, but you got to follow it. You know, society was sort of working together at the time. And if they didn't like it to try to flatten the curve, remember that term? So what would you say to people who say that, right? Like you got to follow the law, even if you don't like it.

Well, I had, by then I had consulted an attorney prior to opening and we had both agreed that this was not law, that that constitutionally it wasn't law. I felt and believed in my heart and it wasn't law that it couldn't possibly be legal in America for Kate Brown to tell me that I couldn't provide for my family. And so with that conviction, I moved forward thinking, I know that this isn't illegal, if you will. And I know that there are police officers out there who believe that it would be morally, ethically, and legally wrong to arrest me for doing someone's hair when I'm trying to feed children. And so I was taking the risk that eventually in court, this could be proven to be illegal. But at this, at that point, I was so morally convicted that,

that this was not the right decision in America for Americans, that I was acting more on those beliefs and convictions than I was afraid of, you know, being put in handcuffs. So what happened? How long were you open? And did they ever manage to shut you back down? So the timeline, if I can recall, I did open OSHA, Oregon OSHA came back, I told them that they did have to get a warrant to come back. And they did, they got one, they came back, and they were met with a lot of supporters who were blocking the entrance so that they couldn't get in. And so at that time, being pro-police, right, I was asked, please keep the peace if you can. If you will cooperate with

our investigation, we do have a warrant. If you'll cooperate, we will not come down there where there could be violence and such if you'll cooperate over the phone. And so I did. Upon the conclusion of that investigation, they did issue me a $14,000 citation. But in the course of that investigation, it took about five days. I was visited, I received email correspondence from the Oregon Health Licensing Office, which threatened to revoke my facility license, and it threatened to revoke my license to do hair, to be a hairstylist. I received a notice from Oregon Health Authority that if I didn't shut down and cease service, that I would be issued a $50,000 fine or $5,000 a day, plus a Class C misdemeanor. Oh, wow. They released the full power of the Oregon State Government against you. Yeah. And this is the most shocking, and this is kind of what shocked America,

and it still shocks me. But three days after I opened, Oregon's Child Protective Services showed up at my home and they interviewed my child without me in the room. They did a full inspection of my home based on a complete fabrication of a report. And to me, the timing is too ironic. The report was allegedly, you know, falsely called in the morning that I opened. And so to me, it was like they tried everything to shut me down and intimidate me. And the last thing that they were going to do was come after my family. Yeah. How was that resolved? So I made it very public that they did that.

And some of the things that they were doing were illegal, like interviewing my children without me present. And, um, they, they wanted to come back and interview my three-year-old daughter. And at that point I knew that I didn't have to cooperate with them. So I said no. And we filed a tort claim against them, letting them know that we would be taking legal action against the organization. And they closed the case the day after that was released. Wow. So when when did this salon close? So we did never we never closed. I stayed open all of that. I never did. I took the $14,000 citation from OSHA. I said I was going to fight it. And so as long as I'm in litigation

with them, my doors are open. And so we never closed back down. We stayed open throughout all of that. Wow. And now are you allowed to be open? So Kate Brown, Her Majesty allowed us to be open on May 18th, which was 13 days after I opened. And she didn't initially have us in the first phase reopening. So I don't know if my civil disobedience let kind of shine some light on the idea that I'm going to publicly not be shut down. And so you better open up salons because everyone else is going to see that we can, we can be open. And she made sure that she wouldn't be embarrassed publicly. That's the way I like, that's how I

like to think of it. You know, their response is your county, it's considered at extreme risk for potential spread and that, you know, business owners, if a bunch of business owners did what you did, it would set the community back. It would keep them in the extreme risk category longer than they had to be. Well, I mean, of course, I clearly disagree because those scientific quote unquote, you know, that data that she's reading, she, she had opened salons, um, 20 minutes down the road while I was, while I was defying the lockdown, she'd opened the salons 20 minutes down the road to think that someone from Salem isn't going to drive 20 minutes and take their COVID with them 20 minutes down the road is clearly ridiculous.

So all you're saying is you're trying to control. I mean, from the very beginning, you are a governor and you're trying to control an act of God. You're trying to control a virus. There is no way anyone should think they have that much authority. And the pure ridiculousness of her mandates and the idea that you can tell a virus what county they can and can't cross is so asinine that it made it so much more unbelievable for me. And it just, it strengthened my resolve. So how are you doing now? I feel like the attention may have made people perhaps more loyal to you. Are you okay financially? Cause I know

obviously you suffered a hit. Yes. So, um, you get to be the first to know that, um, my family actually had to leave the state. We, we had to move away. Um, my family actually had to leave the state. We, we had to move away. Um, after, oh, I haven't talked about this so long. Um, after I opened, you know, the cancel culture came out my salon pretty hard. Um, I was called all kinds of names. I was threatened. Um, even just recently Antifa has started targeting me and tracking me. And after CPS came and, you know, threatened to take our kids away,

we realized that we couldn't, we couldn't stay in Oregon. It just, it wasn't safe. So. Are you, are you saying where you went? Texas? Yeah. You know, a red state. I'll tell you that much. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. It's it's hard to feel like your community loathes you. It really. Yeah, it is. And that's that's the weird place we've gotten to even. And listen, I mean, we saw people on the left pursuing acts that they referred to as civil disobedience many times over last summer. And they recovered a lot differently by people who might be judging you. Up next, we're going to get into how Lindsey Graham wound up at the Capitol on January 6th and the relationship she

had with the press prior to that point and with Trump. But first, before we get to that, it seems like every day, everywhere, practically everyone is connected on their devices. In fact, the average person was connected almost seven hours a day last year, right? You know that because of the lockdown. Haven't you been getting like disturbing updates from your phone and how much time you've spent online? I'm like, I didn't need to know iPhone. I don't, I don't need that guilt put on me, but it is kind of scary. And 64% of adults admit to taking online risks for convenience. All that browsing, sharing, banking, and shopping makes life easy, but it can also expose your personal information, making you vulnerable to cyber

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This is a great investment for your security. Norton.com slash MK to save 25%. And now back to Lindsay. Can I ask you, Lindsay, because I know my producer told me that after all this, you were one of the people who went and heard President Trump on this now infamous day of January 6th at the US.S. Capitol. And I wonder, as somebody who was there, and I know there was a picture of you actually on the Capitol steps that day, how do you see it? How do you see what happened that day? And also, before we get to that, why was it important to you to go? Well, when I decided to go, and it was sort of last

minute, I felt like something big was happening in our country. I felt like I was one of those kind of conspiracy theorists. I thought, oh, Trump's going to pull something out of his sleeve. I got to be there when that happens. I need to be around my people, my people being Trump supporters, conservatives, Republicans. I feel like it's a once in a lifetime kind of day. And I don't think I can miss it. And so I kind of rearranged my whole life to go. And I thought that at the end of that night, we would be popping champagne bottles and chanting Trump 2020. And obviously that's not what happened, but that's why I went. I wanted to be around my fellow conservatives when, you know, the moment came about that didn't actually happen.

So that was a big disappointment. But what happened there is, of course, as we're seeing so, so widespread in the media, nothing like what they're making it out to be. And that's a firsthand experience. It's, there were hundreds of thousands of people there that didn't know that some of the things were going on, that the media is acting like, you know, it took over the rally. This was what the rally was about, was sieging the Capitol and violence and, you know, the dishonesty that took place amongst, quote, Trump supporters to be labeled domestic terrorists. It's such a slap in the face to the people like myself that all we're really, really, truly doing is trying to get some truth out there, trying to get a conservative viewpoint out there and trying to do what is actually best for America and Americans. And to me, it just proves how big of a holy war we're in, that we're being silenced, that we're being censored, that the people that are actually trying to do what's best for America and support, you know, a great president are being labeled domestic terrorists and being cancel cultured and

terrorized by their own communities again. What do you like? Some of the reports were, of course, the people going there knew there would be violence because there were online chat rooms and so on saying, bring your guns and bring the zip ties and so on. Had you seen any of that prior to that day? No. And I will tell you that I am very much a part of chat rooms and Trump supporters and conservative feeds. Never once did I see, not once, did I see someone saying, bring your guns, be armed, wear your bulletproof vest. This is the day we take back America. I mean, nowhere. If that were the case, I wouldn't have gone. My husband would have told me, no, you're a mom, you stay home. And I was thinking

about my three children before I went there and I went, it's perfectly safe. It's a Trump rally. We're going to wear American flag paraphernalia. We're going to chant USA and we're going to walk around the Capitol and that's going to be that. It was the safest trip I could imagine. So no, I didn't see any, any situation where I felt like any Trump supporter was encouraging or inciting violence. And that includes Trump himself. Were you surprised when, you know, you, you, I take it, you, you went from his rally to the Capitol because since you were at the Capitol. But were you surprised when other people started to sort of rush in? And there was some violence outside with the cops, based on what I saw on television with them trying to hold back the crowd.

Right. I didn't actually see that surge of people when the doors opened, people going in the Capitol, that was kind of shocking to me to hear that, A, we were being allowed in the Capitol, but B, that it became violent once they were inside. And again, it's, it's, you almost have to be there to understand the perspective of like, that happened in a tiny, tiny portion of the Capitol. And the Capitol, as you can imagine, is massive. And then hundreds of thousands of people are just outside taking selfies and playing music and having a good time and waving their flags. And they have no idea that in this little 1% of the crowd that these horrible things are happening. It was very,

we were just ignorant to it and naive. And, um, having not seen, you know, that particular moment or this particular moment, it's like, you're trying to tackle what happened to a child in Disneyland. There's just no way that 99% of the people were even present for, for those moments. What was the first inclination you had that things have had gone wrong um someone had said that a woman and at that time there was all kinds of misinformation they said a girl had gotten shot and i didn't even know what that would mean um someone said a 14 year old girl got shot which is clearly not at all what happened right um but i thought you know what's a 14 year old girl doing here first of all and what did she do to get shot? And where is this happening? Because we're just waving flags and chanting, where are people getting shot at? Um, so I was like, well, that's not good. Um, and then I did see quite a bit of the tear gas stuff happening. So I imagined that there were things, um, happening up on that area. And I actually did get close enough to the area

where the police were starting to say, okay, you guys aren't even allowed to be here anymore. And they started just tear gassing the general crowd. And I managed to get tear gassed as a standby observer as well. You never went inside? No, no, definitely. I was nowhere near being inside. Um, which is, is it's just, it's surreal to say, because when I watched the videos of my, my, my fellow Trump supporters being escorted inside by the police, they, you know,

they opened the doors, they guide them inside. There's even a video of one of the Capitol police helping an old lady up the stairs. I think, you know, wrong place, wrong time, because if I would have been standing at that specific area and a, and a Capitol police officer said, come on in, I would have thought, well, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Also, I've never been to Washington, DC. You're going to let me in the Capitol. I'm in, I would have walked in. It just just it seemed it was very clear in the videos that they were being welcomed in. And so to know that two weeks later, the FBI would be calling you and saying, did you storm the Capitol? I would have been like, well, no, I was escorted in. But just to think that that I don't know, the Trump supporters were sort of trapped in a way they were welcomed in. And now, you know, if you say you were there, the FBI wants to talk to you.

What about when you see the other videos? I have law enforcement in my family, and I know you're supportive. But like when I saw those videos of them beating the cop and the cop like struggling to breathe as he was trying to get out of the crowd. And now, you know, we know a cop died. Like I was horr breathe as he was trying to get out of the crowd. And now, you know, we know a cop died. Like I was horrified. I, it was so upsetting. And I, I mean, what did you feel when you saw that? Cause it wasn't all peaceful Trump supporters as, as you know. No, it wasn't. I mean, it wasn't, it definitely wasn't the videos. Don't lie.

You can't create the media can try to create an agenda for the entire group, but you can't create an agenda for that specific moment. I would never, ever in my life condone that sort of behavior. And I didn't see the video of that. I probably wouldn't want to. It would kind of break my heart. But I do know or I've heard that it happened. And I do believe that there were people there that made some very, very, very poor choices. They went there potentially with the idea that, yes, this was the day that they were going to take our country back, quite literally.

And knowing that the Capitol Police had to face that is disturbing, especially with the repercussions of that. Knowing that if you are a Trump supporter and you partook in that kind of behavior and you ruined it for everyone, there should be some guilt there because that's never been the way of Trump supporters. That's never been the actions of a patriot. And there was no way that that specific day, anyone in the very many people in the crowd believed that we were going to arm up and quite literally take back the Capitol. Oh, yeah, the media has been talking about the group as if it's one with one motivation. And that's, that's unfair. You know, that's, that's, that's obviously unfair. But can I back up? Because I do think you're an interesting person to talk to you about this, because we've heard so much, so many assumptions put on the Trump supporters who were

there that day. And as somebody who was one of them, you know, who was not, not storming the Capitol, but the president, and you know, I'd love to know what you think and sort of how you got to the point, because you said I was a conspiracy theorist and I really thought he was going to pull something out of the hat and turn the election around that day. Somehow with the lawmakers, I assume you mean, but like how, how did, what made you believe that, right? People are sort of trying to retrace what made you believe that. Um, I just, I try to take in as much information as I can. And it made sense to me that in my own mind, that if you want to try to steal an election from, you know, a Senator or whatever, you're probably going to get away with it, but to steal an election. And I,

and I do believe it was stolen to steal an election from an acting president. That takes a lot of guts. And I feel like that the president, to steal an election from an acting president. That takes a lot of guts. And I feel like that the president, the standing president, would have some sort of executive branch that we don't know about to handle these kind of things. Because to me, that's completely treason. And so as I'm getting more and more information from conservatives who've done some legal background, looked into the Constitution, who've looked into, you know, these different branches of the presidency, it made sense to me that there's no way they're going to get away with this. President Trump will never let them get away with this. And so I felt, and that just led me to just watch more and more of these people with their ideas. And I don't know,

I don't know what happened, why he couldn't. I don't know how, I don't know how the election could have been stolen to the extreme that it was and the evidence so blatantly disregarded. But, you know, the conservatives that kind of kept feeding information here and there about it, it made sense to me. So I just believed in my heart that that the good would prevail, that the truth would be revealed. Right. Do you like were you watching cable or was it Internet?

Like, do you mind helping me understand the sources? Because I tell you, I am an honest broker here. I genuinely seek to understand. I understand the mainstream media is not trustworthy anymore. And I'm trying to understand where conservatives are going to get their news. And I also want to understand how so many people who were on the Capitol that day really, like you, believed he could turn it around. Right. I think what we've started doing, unfortunately, is just listening to each other. So Instagram, Facebook, I mean, we're being largely censored now. So I just actually went to look up, you know,

three or four patriots that I met at the Capitol that day and their profiles are completely gone. But what I was doing was listening to my like-minded Americans. Okay. We believe that the election was stolen. What do we think is going to happen? And that's, I mean, that's obviously- How would you find them? Like, how would you find them? So for me, I would go on Instagram and I would, you know, that's obviously find them. Like, how would you find them? So for me, I would, I would go on Instagram and I would, you know, type in a hashtag Patriot or hashtag stop this deal or hashtag Trump 2020. And then I would find those people and kind of see where they fit in the conservative family. And then, you know, once you follow them, you start to see their information.

And so much of it seems legit. I know it's not news, and I know it's not reputable. I know it's not fact. But I have learned that there is no fact out there anymore. There is no truth out there, period, even on the mainstream media, especially on the mainstream media. And so where do I get information that I trust? Nowhere is the answer, really. So then I just kind of have to think for myself. Most conservatives who get to that place first, their first stop is Fox or maybe now Newsmax, you know, some for some OAN. Did you, did you stop there at all before going to Insta and Facebook? Newsmax and OAN is what I'm, I've decided is more reliable. Gosh, I dive so deep into it that sometimes it's overwhelming because there's so much information out there. OAN is a broadcast that I would trust. But a lot of the times you kind of get, they're very careful because they,

as real reporters should be, they need to be discerning about what they put out as factual. And so it's almost like I was looking for seeking out the conspiracy theory to kind of validate that. I think I was, I was trying to not have to accept that Biden is going to be our president. And so a lot of the times I would just go to the people who I thought, well, they've already done all that research for me. And then they've put it all into this one little video. So I'm going to just watch that one video so that I'm not obsessively sitting at the computer trying to figure out what's happening to our country. Does that make sense? How do you feel now? Yeah, totally. I'm following you. But how do you feel now? Do you feel like that was a mistake? Do you regret that? No, no, no, no. I don't regret it. Mostly because I didn't do anything to regret, right? If I had

believed in my heart that the conspiracy was true and it was my job to storm the Capitol and take back the country, I would probably have a lot of regrets right now. I still went to the rally. I, my voice was heard. My, my pajama onesies were seen. My flag was waved and it was, it's going to be a once inin-a-lifetime experience for a very different reason than I anticipated. But I didn't do anything regretful. It gave me a little bit of hope for a few days and that you can't really regret that. Biden, unfortunately, is president, and that's really too bad. But there's nowhere really to go but to try to take care of our own family and kind of proceed forward.

Do you feel like you were misled now? Not intentionally. I mean, I was misled because I did listen to and follow information that obviously didn't happen. But I don't think anyone that I followed had the intention of, you know, creating discourse or creating violence or inciting violence or trying to mislead me. I think that they felt like I felt like that truly something was going to be revealed that good would prevail and that this is kind of our last hope to hang on to before, you know, this this horrible president is inaugurated in. What do you think of because there are a lot of people who think President Trump was irresponsible in his messaging on this, leading people to believe that, for example, Mike Pence had powers he didn I definitely have. And so, I mean, up until it happened, I believed that, that he had the power to, to take control of the situation. Clearly he

doesn't or, or he does, but that's being hidden. I don't know. Yeah. How did you feel when that, when that, so when that particular house of cards came down and you realized it's not happening, how did that feel? Pretty devastating. I mean, I was in the middle of the rally waving my flag and finding out that I'm waving a flag for the president that I love that is not going to be reelected. So it was very disappointing. I would say it felt like at that moment that the crowd sort of kind of lost their resolve. Um, it was very disappointing. What, what was the moment? Oh, when, um, you know, I was telling you that there was just chatter. Um, and we, none of us could get internet service. Uh, they had, I don't know if they'd shut down the internet or the phones were just clogged, but the chatter amongst the rally kind of like telephone, if you will, was that Mike Pence didn't he certified the results. And so we were all there waiting for him to, like I said, pull an ace out of his sleeve and there was no ace. So that was that. Did you feel a lot of people who believed he had that power felt betrayed by him that day? I think, Trump definitely fanned that particular fire. But what do you think about Mike Pence now?

Oh, I think that if he had the power and he didn't take it, that we should be as disappointed in him as we are. If he didn't have the power, then I think he'd be put in an impossible situation that, to be quite honest, he never should have been put in and that we have plenty of other people to blame for putting him in that position. More with Lindsay in just one second. But first, small changes toward a healthier lifestyle can add up in a big way. Not sure where to begin? Let Grove Collaborative give you a jump start. Grove is the online marketplace for sustainable home essentials delivered right to your doorstep. They take the guesswork out of going green. You can browse the Grove Collaborative website for thousands of home, beauty, and personal care products, all guaranteed to be

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and healthier. Plus the shipping's fast and free on your first order. So make your home healthier this year. For a limited time, when my listeners go to grove.co.mk, you will get a free Mrs. Myers gift set, plus free shipping with your first order, a $30 value. But you've got to use our special code, grove.co, not.com, grove.co.mk, to get this exclusive offer. Check it out. It's a great site, great company, grove.co.mk. We covered the electoral challenges on our show with an open mind. As a lawyer, I wanted to see if he had the goods, right? Like, let's go into these courts and see what Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell can present. But what I found was whenever asked for the fraud evidence in front of a judge, Rudy would say, this isn't a

fraud case. We don't have it. But in front of a microphone, he would say fraud, fraud, fraud, but you can't lie to a judge, but the ethical rules of being a lawyer. And so to me, that was powerful evidence. I also thought it was interesting that people like Andy McCarthy, who voted for Trump, he's a right-leaning lawyer, he found the same. You know, he analyzed each one of the lawsuits that was filed. So had you heard any of that? And what do you think of that? You know, I hadn't heard of that specifically until after the rally. I want to say, even after the inauguration, is when I, and only one person had posted something about that. And she said,

keep an open mind when you read this. And I read it and I thought, well, that's interesting. And I kind of went to trying to pretend that I'm a lawyer, which I'm very, very much not. And thought, is there some side effects that would happen if you said that was fraud? Meaning if you alleged that there was fraud, would you have to name the person in charge of creating that fraud. And so is that why Rudy Giuliani didn't say that there was fraud because they didn't know who they could name because it was so widespread. And again, I'm not a lawyer, so I sort of took that and said, well, okay, so maybe there was fraud, maybe there wasn't. I was led to believe there was. I could very much be wrong. I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. Uh, either way it's over now. So I'm going to just accept, you know, my, this,

this communist life. So now how do you feel? Do you feel like, do you trust Rudy Giuliani? Oh, uh, well, yes. And until, until we know what his intentions were for saying that, you know, in certain situations and then not saying it in other situations, I wouldn't mind hearing the reasoning for that. Um, no, I'm just, I'm just taking it one day at a time, probably like the rest of my conservative friends. And I say this without any judgment, so please take in that spirit. But do you do you regret putting your trust in these folks on the Internet who misled you? No, I don't. Again, because I don't feel like they they may have misled me unknowingly. I don't think that was their intention. And I think that they were just trying to put information out there.

We're all trying to counter the mainstream media who's so severely saying one thing that we're no longer okay with being quiet. And so we need to severely say the other thing. This is where everyone keeps saying America needs to unite, right? We both need to take it down a notch and meet in the middle, but that's not going to be possible until the liberal left-wing media stops so severely pushing their agenda that we don't feel that we need to be on the utmost defense saying the complete opposite thing at all times. And so what I think happened was I think conservatives thought, don't you tell us that Biden's going to be president. He's not. And this is, this is what's going to happen. And

we have faith that this is what's going to happen. And, you know, had I, had I taken that information and done something regrettable, then I would regret it. But I didn't, I didn't take that information and do anything regrettable besides making a few posts that, you know, Trump's the rightful president. Well, obviously he's not. So I look like a dum-dum, but that's no skin off my back. Do you feel like, and listen, I've been very critical of the mainstream media, so I'm not going to disagree that they had Trump derangement syndrome. However, do you think it's possible that you and the group that you're talking about may have overcorrected, right? Like you go too far the other way. Like maybe

if you guys went to a 10, if the mainstream media is at a two or a three, maybe you should have stopped at a seven. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, I definitely, I definitely believe it was overboard. I myself was totally overboard. I was talking to my husband, telling him all these things I believe are going to happen. And he's shaking his head going, honey, you're just a mom and a business owner. You're not a conspiracy theorist. Yes, I mean, I definitely think it was totally overblown. And it's laughable now.

But I think it was just people that were desperate for something to hope for. We were desperate for hope. Um, and not that that hope is gone, but it's, it's quieted down quite a bit. Um, but we're just, we're hoping for something that's going to change America because whatever is, whatever's being done is not working. It's making it worse. And do you, yeah, I saw some tape of some women and some men. I was actually, I saw it, it was a clip from OAN that I saw online. And they were actually saying things like, I would die for President Trump. I was taken aback by that. I know people love him and they love him dearly, but like, I was taken aback by that.

What do you think of that as somebody who's a diehard? Yeah, we need, we need to be careful what we, what we say about president Trump, because the media is already trying to say that we are a cult, um, and we are fanatics and we now we're domestic terrorists. Um, I don't think I would, I don't think I would die for president Trump. I, I would die for my children my children. But it's terrible that we have to think that closely about what we say, because the left can say whatever they want. And it's, it's God speaking, it's got, it's, it's biblical. But anything we say can be so convoluted and twisted, and it's just going to feed their agenda. And so I, for one, I'm pretty outspoken, obviously, and probably will say things that should be maybe not have been said or could be misconstrued. But I would like to say that I'm going to be a little more careful about the things being said now that the media is intentionally

targeting Trump supporters as, you know, quote, terrorists. Well, how do you how do you feel about that, about Trump being booted from Twitter, about Parler being shut down, about videos that suggest widespread voter fraud being banned now from Facebook? YouTube? I mean, being a person who has now been censored, it's pretty devastating. I mean, they they actually took your voice away And I didn't even have that many followers. I mean, imagine being the president of the United States and social media has they have the right to have community standards, which look like BS to me. But as a person, it's pretty devastating to just kind of have your opinion removed because someone else's opinion says that your opinion doesn't matter. Are you scared that you're going to lose the ability to express your opinion or get the opinions of people you respect online?

Oh, absolutely. My Instagram has already been disabled and deleted. I can't log back into it. They removed all my contacts. They removed all my content, all my followers. Um, the username is there, but I can't log into it. So they have silenced me and I've had to start completely over. Um, and they did so at a time when my voice was really starting to be heard. And so, um, it, I didn't violate community standards. Some of the, some of the posts that they were flagging as hate speech were not even, I mean, there were pictures of me in my American flag pajamas. Um, so it's like, you know, where's the, where's the supervision of these people deciding whose opinion does or doesn't matter. So I'm, I'm terrified that I'm going to be silenced the louder I get. It's more terrifying. Um, and as soon as I get that warning now,

what do you do now? Like what, what, where do you go now for information? Um, well, since being silenced and that was, I mean, that was only like two or three days ago. Um, I've sort of had to like step back and say, okay, do I regroup and like start all over? Um, which is what I've decided to do as of yesterday, uh, which is very debilitating. Um, I, I'm going to have to continue to use whatever platforms arise that are going to be less censored and less, less, boy, they target

conservatives. So I mean, both Facebook and Instagram have targeted my page and my fellow Patriots pages saying that they're going to be removed or deleted, and then they've actually been removed or deleted. So there needs to be a new platform really that is more focused on conservatives. And unfortunately, like I said, this is where the extremism comes in. Because if you had a platform that across the board kind of said, well, I guess Antifa can say whatever they want because we're not controlling it. And I guess patriots can say whatever they want because we're not controlling it. You are going to get a lot of things being said that as a platform you may not agree with. But so far, Instagram and Facebook have been so radically biased against conservatives. Again, like I'm

saying, they'll let Antifa target and post pictures of business owners and um passively incite violence against these people you know posting their business posting where they work their another work address things like that and that you can flag that for hate speech and it will not get removed but then you've got lucy graham over here patriot barbie holding a sign at a trump rally wearing pajamas. And that gets flagged for hate speech. It said, stop the steal. Okay. Yeah. So that's it. Do you? So, okay. Well, I just want to ask a couple of other questions. Thank you for being so generous with your time. I know this went long, but what do you think now about President Trump? Because,

of course, his detractors and much of the media say he's done. There's no way he can run again. And the party needs new blood, too. I heard that. What how do you see him now? You know, I believe he's been a fighter for America and not for his own personal vendetta or agenda, but for Americans. And so that, I mean, he has endured a lot during his presidency. He's been the worst, in my opinion, the worst treated president we've ever seen. And I think social media has a lot to do with that and the mainstream media. And so I don't, I think that after he's been through what he's been through as the president, if he can endure that, I don't think he's going to stop. And I don't know what that means for him, whether it's to go into another branch of the government or to start his own. Maybe he's continued to fight when he's been the most

violently attacked, you know, on social media. And he's done it all for Americans. And so for that, I respect him a lot. And I'm, I'm still going to support, you know, whatever adventure he takes on for America. Who else could you get behind? Just curious, for like 2024? Oh oh man uh i could get behind probably either of his sons or daughters um who have just as much resilience and stamina and patriotism i could get behind his um press uh press secretary kaylee uh i could get behind some of the Republicans in government now, like Matt Gates, that have just so publicly and bravely stood up for him when it was clear that the trend was to condemn him. Because I've been that person who stood up against what everyone else says is wrong. And that's a very, very hard place to be.

So be standing in the middle of, you know, all of your, your fellow colleagues and say, I know that you all believe we should impeach him, but here's why I don't think you should. And here's why I shame you for doing so. That takes a lot, a lot of bravery and a lot of future endurance of hate and cancel culture and such. So I respect anyone that had that kind of bravery. What do you think of Ted Cruz? I don't know much about Ted Cruz. I try to get information here, here and there. But Ted Cruz is someone that you'd have to refresh my memory about his status right now.

OK, I was just I was curious because he was sort of he ran against Trump, but then he is someone that you'd have to refresh my memory about his status right now. Okay. I was just, I was curious cause he was sort of, he ran against Trump, but then he kind of went pro Trump and he was going to argue a Supreme court case, yeah. Challenging the election, but the Supreme court didn't take it and so on. So, you know, I just wondered, um, so let me, so let me ask you this. If, if, if I were to come to you and say, Lindsay, you have to help me solve this problem. You have to help me reach people in your circles who who really, really believed that the election was going to be overturned that day. And and that wasn't true. And how are we going to get them to trust media again? How are we going to get them out of the place where they feel their only options for quote, real news are Insta and Facebook posts? What would your solution be? Oh boy. Um, I would say that every network needs to have some kind of accountability

department where, I mean, I just read, I just read on an article where some news station had, you know, their entire staff was registered Democrat. And so if there was some kind of accountability where the corporation or the business or the association itself had to have a variety of political opinions, and mind you, I don't believe that the U.S. is divided between Republicans and Democrats. I believe that we all have multiple areas of opinion and somehow we've gotten divided between Republican and Democrat. But I think that if each news station had different opinions on their panels that they had to consult with. And each person got to say, look, I think that that's biased. You're taking this article, but your headline is saying this,

and your headline is leading people to believe that the article is going to be positive about this, but it's negative about this. And I've experienced that for myself. I've sat down and done interviews and the things that I've said, they've somehow twisted it into me being, you know, X, Y, Z. And so if you had accountability there and people started to see, okay, here's one reporter reading the story this way, and here's another reporter reading the story this way, and they both have facts, but the way that they're saying them and the way that they're twisting them and the way that they're presenting them are very, very different. Now we've got both sides and I can choose for myself, which side I believe is the most,

you know, accurate. And then you'd have, you'd have conservatives saying, okay, we've got, you know, we've got both sides of the story. We've got both people reporting. They're being fair about it. Now we don't have to be so extreme the other way. Everything could just be presented fairly and presented without so much bias, there'd be people way more likely to tune in, listen to both sides, and choose for themselves, you know, the most factual. Another question for you. I will tell you, I don't judge or feel the need to, you know, get into your beliefs about what you heard in the news, except for one thing. Mike Pence never did have the power to overturn that election. And, and I do feel that people were misled about that, that, that the president of the Senate,

which is what he was doing there that day is, is a presider, not a decider. And he, he never did have the power to overturn the vote. And I thought it was unfair to the Trump supporters who did have legitimate questions in a lot of cases about mail-in voting at a greater level than ever and whether they were really processed fairly and, you know, was, was everything handled fairly? Um, but that, that was a lie. And I just wonder whether I hope you accept my representation to you. And I wonder if it like, if I were to say to you, what about broadening out your sources in getting news? You know, what about, I'll tell you what I do every day because I don't trust the mainstream media either. I'm not I'm not arguing on their behalf.

Every morning I go to this website, RealClearPolitics.com, and it has editorials from the left and the right pro Trump, anti Trump. It's got them all. And I know it's hard work, but I have to read. I have to read both so I can figure out what the facts are. I mean, you could skip that step and just listen to me, but, but if you want to do it yourself, cause you sound like you, you do read a lot, you could do that. But I, I do wonder, you know, in this era of information, whether we should all be more protective about what we put in, you know, what we allow in, because I do think it's warping people's sense of reality

in some cases. What do you think? I would, I would agree with you a hundred percent. I would like to point out that, did I just give you a really good idea about news, but it already exists? Yeah. That's the story of my life. I've always got these, you know, million dollar ideas and someone's already thought of them. But yes, I agree. I used to be a very, I wouldn't say middle of the road, you know, in politics. I've always been right-leaning conservative, but I've always, or used to be very open to that point where I'm at now. There was just such a line drawn in the sand for me when I opened my business and the left attacked me and the right supported me. I sort of decided, well, these are my people and I'm going to stay over here with them. But you're right. That's not that's not the best way to get to to gather information is to only listen to people who are thinking like you. I'm completely aware of that. And honestly, I will be writing down that website that you said, because to me, that's exactly what I'd like to hear is I'd like to hear both sides and then decide for

myself. And it isn't going to be the best decision for anyone to only listen to what is going to feed your agenda. And that is what I've been doing quite a bit of. Well, and especially, especially, Lindsay, when you're in a vulnerable state, you have been made vulnerable through no actions of your own. And what's been done to you by the state, it's unfair. And I understand the need for the lockdowns initially, and you obeyed them, but it's really hard to ask any American who's worked her whole life to establish her businesses and

employ some people and take care of her children and who's the mother of a newborn baby to just let it all slip away and then trust the establishment that's sitting back in judgment of her. And I just, I'm, I'm, to me, that's the bigger picture is that you had a, you had a rough year and maybe, maybe you got pulled into some information circles that, that weren't trustworthy. And it's just something to consider as you're getting back on your feet, right? Cause you're, you're the master of your ship. You'll decide which way to steer it. I love that.

I love that analogy. And yes, you're right. I've had a year of trying to discover who I am again and having to rethink my whole life and start our family fresh somewhere. And this fresh person has developed a very biased, kind of one-sided, if you will. I still have plenty of gray areas, trust me, in my beliefs. But you are right. I've kind of leaned toward, okay, well, when I put myself out there in the main circle of people, I opened myself up to the cancel culture and culture and the, the less who would come at me

with just name calling and attacking and violence and threats. And then I've got my patrons over here who have nothing but nice things to say about me. And so for me, yeah, it's been kind of a safety net. Like, okay, well you, you go away. I'm not listening to you anymore. All you're doing is calling me names anyway. And I'm only going to listen over here. I think once I can kind of find that balance of, you know, where my life is now and after what I've been through, which is, I mean, still ongoing, it'd be nice to settle somewhere back in the middle where I feel safe enough, if you will, to sort of explore all those outlets. Well, I think it's great that you essentially took a risk just

telling your story to me and telling and being honest about your feelings and how you consumed information. I think you're helping people by being open about that. And it's, it's not for anyone to judge. It's, it's an interesting case to sort of dissect and think about. And, you know, now you sort of having the big reveal at the end right like there was there was no rabbit in the hat right so you can think too you can think too about how'd i get there right right and you know one of the things that i i would love to say to the left to liberals i can't say to them because they're so busy attacking and calling names. But if you've got, you know, a person, a liberal or left, left wing, that's listening to something like this and saying, okay, so, you know, the majority of the people in our party are attacking so, so ferociously

that they're not even listening. Well, is that really, is that really going to get your voice heard? If, if the people that you're trying to reach, and this is what unity looks like, is me being able to say what I believe and you being able to say what you believe and us agreeing that maybe we disagree, but here's our reasons. And now at least we're more educated, right? The left, in my experience, the left has so violently and ferociously come after patriots that we don't want to converse with them. We want nothing to do with them at this point. So I've had a couple decent conversations

with liberals on my page, and I'm shocked. And I'm going, oh my gosh, you can have a friendly debate with me. This is so rare. It's one in a million. Half the time I'm blocking them because they're not saying, Hey, Lindsay, what do you think about this? Let's have a conversation. They're saying you're a racist, fascist, selfish murderer. And I'm like, okay, well then if that's what you believe and you don't know me, we can't speak. And so if they, if the left could hear what they're doing and they're silencing themselves and creating the divide, we would be a very different America right now. And the weird thing is that we're blaming, everyone's blaming everybody. But it just, I mean, it simply goes back to humanity. And if we could just, there could be a little more humanity in our communication, that would be fabulous. And until that happens, you know, we're very much going to stay divided. Yeah. So well said. Listen, I am sending you tons of love. Good luck with your

your new babe. And good luck with the salon and the businesses. And thank you so much for being here and your honesty. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you. Today's episode is brought to you in part by Grove Collaborative. Take the guesswork out of going green. It is hard sometimes, right? You're not sure how to do it. These guys are going to make it super easy for you. Go to grove.com.

No, no. Grove.co slash MK to shop for all of your sustainable home essentials. Grove.co slash MK. Okay. On Wednesday, you are not going to want to miss the show. I felt fired up at the end of it. I felt it's just like I was ready to fight, you know, and I think you'll be ready to fight. But we get an interview with Jodi Shaw.

Jodi Shaw. She's like a celebrity to me. Did you hear Glenn Lowry mentioned her when he came on my show? He was holding her up as a heroine too. She is, she's basically an administrative assistant at Smith College in Massachusetts, who was sick and tired of the critical race theory stuff being shoved down her and her colleagues' throats. And so she took to her little microphone and put out some online videos, objecting to it in the most articulate, compelling way. And Jody's story is just part of a much larger mosaic, which Chris Ruva has been documenting. He's the guy who got President Trump to ban critical race theory mandated sessions at the federal level. And for people

doing business with the feds. Joe Biden's already reversed that. So you get an inside look into what's now being fed, not just to federal contractors, folks and employees, but to your kids. Rufo's been all over what's happening in the schools. And you need to know. You need to know. Just here in New York, we saw the Dalton School just fight back against this a couple days ago.

And the Dalton School is as left as they come. Trust me, it's one of, if not the most progressive, liberally, I mean, politically progressive in the nation. And the parents there sent a seven-page letter to the administrators saying, we're sick of this. This is divisive. It's the anti-racist agenda is nothing of the sort. And we're not going to stand for it any longer. And that's exactly what Chris Ruppo has been trying to stop.

It's what he's been taking a look at. And if you read their letter, I mean, it's it's shocking. I'll just I'll give you just a little bit little news here. This is a quote. Every class has had an obsessive focus on race and identity. Racist cop reenactments in science class. De-centering whiteness in art class. Learning about white supremacy and sexual identity in health class. Many of us do not feel welcome here anymore. So anyway, that's all Wednesday. Jodi Shaw and Chris Ruffo.

Don't miss it. And we'll talk then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. The Megyn Kelly Show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.