The Megyn Kelly Show - Allie Beth Stuckey on Protecting Women and Girls, Motherhood, and the Courage To Stand Up | Ep. 130

Episode Date: July 19, 2021

Megyn Kelly is joined by Allie Beth Stuckey, host of "Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey" and author of "You're Not Enough And That's Okay," to talk about protecting women and girls, motherhood, the courage to stand up for your beliefs, feminism today, the Equality Act, trans issues, overcoming obstacles like bulimia, faith and living in a Christian way, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShowFind out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Today on the program, we've got Allie Beth Stuckey. She is the host of a very popular podcast called Relatable, which you can get on The Blaze. She's also the author of the book, You're Not Enough. And that's okay. Escaping the toxic culture of self-love. She's an evangelical Christian, very faith-based and has an attitude and sort of an interpretation of life that matches up with that. And it's one of the reasons I find her so interesting and so insightful. You know, it's like if you are a conservative evangelical Christian, you know, Protestant in her case, you, you get bashed

regularly. No one cares about the bashing of you, right? Like your views are one of the last things it's fine to bash. It's fine. You get called bigoted regularly because you have a Christian view of let's say marriage and certainly trans issues and biological sex and so on. But we need people like Allie Beth to sort of remind us of the foundation of a lot of the beliefs a lot of us have. Now, I don't agree with her on things like gay marriage and so on, but I see her points in standing up for children and what's appropriate to expose them to. And I think you're going to love her because she's very, very popular with the evangelical crowd and her podcast is crossed over to even folks who don't share those views, who just want to hear more traditional views discussed in a way that's smart.

So that's her. And she's coming on in one minute. Stay tuned for Allie Beth. So let's talk about, because I know you're the mother recently of two, you just had your second baby, so congrats on that. Thank you. And I know that you were talking the other day about a story, maybe you too, Allie, will be featured on Courtney Cox's show,

Nine Months, which I think is a Facebook show, where she features stories of difficult pregnancies and births. And she featured one recently about a trans woman. Okay. The trans woman. And just to, I mean, it's like, it gets confusing. So trans woman is a biological, yeah. Biological male who married a trans man. Who's a biological woman. The trans man who's a biological woman gave birth okay so if the person looks like a man is living like a man but gave birth because they have a uterus and ovaries and so on then the the trans woman who's a biological man yes is trying to breastfeed the child yeah no wonder it's difficult um but here's the sound bite from there from her show the baby has been able to latch but i've not been able to produce

any milk that's okay because we're gonna supplement the feeding with formula so that my baby's still getting the the nutrients that need, but I'm still feeling hopeful. OMG. You are? Well, you shouldn't be. Yeah. It's not going to happen. There's no reason to hope.

Yeah, I did talk about that on my show the other day. So this is just your standard straight couple. This is just a man and a woman who got pregnant the way that men and women do, I suppose. And this woman had gave birth to a baby. So it's really not that remarkable, except for the fact that these two people consider themselves what's called two spirit, which I, I don't know exactly what that means. And like you said, the man identifies as a woman, the one of the woman identifies as a man, and they have so sold out to this delusion that the guy who says that he is a woman and wants to be called a mother is trying to breastfeed this poor child who like

all children after they're born um is hungry and wants nourishment from the mother and he is uh disappointed this man who identifies as a woman, that he's not lactating, which apparently they believe that if you just will it hard enough, or if you just declare the impossible possible that it's going to happen, I think to the detriment of the psychology and probably the physical health of this child. Right. He's like, well, she, I don't know, says, um, don't worry because I am supplementing with formula supplementing, right. Entirely relying on formula, you know, and by the way, there's a, there's another solution to this problem. Why don't you let the birth mother breastfeed the child? But that the birth mother is saying that she's a man and I don't know the

breast situation, but it, this situation, but this is the trans situation where we pretend there's absolutely no relation to biology taken to the extreme. And I understand people are people, they're going to do what they're going to do. But when there's a baby involved, that's problematic. And then when you've got Courtney Cox, of all people, who's very well known, highlighting this story as though it's something to be celebrated, it crosses over into dangerous territory. Right. And people say, you know, I get this a lot. Why do you care? Why do you care about the trans issue? Why do you care if men want to say that they're women and vice versa?

It doesn't affect you. It doesn't affect you how people live their life. And that's true. Like if an adult wants to dress a certain way or even get a surgery, while I personally don't agree with it, doesn't align with my values, it doesn't really affect me, but it does affect society as a whole. One, when we're seeing laws that are basically forcing us to not just accept, but celebrate this. And it does affect people who don't have a voice. It affects people who can't defend themselves, like children. This child is an unconsenting subject of a social experiment. And for us to say that there's going to be no psychological effect to that, that there's going to be, consequently, no sociological effect to that, I think is extremely naive. So I care about this in the same way that I care about abortion. There are voiceless people

who are being affected by this kind of destructive ideology. They can't consent. They have no say in it. And that matters. Like I care about these children. I care about the formation of the family. I also care about reality. And like I said, when we're seeing these kind of policies reflect this postmodern idea that we can define our own truth, even when it becomes when it when it comes to biological truth. I think that matters and that it is obligatory to care about that kind of thing. I know it's I support trans people living how they want to live. But when it crosses into a child's now been introduced and you're living this confused a situation, I mean, there is a question about mental wellness with these people. I mean, that that this that this biological man thinks he's going to extract milk from

his chest at some point, because when they use the term chest feeding, what they're really talking about is biological women who are able to breastfeed because they have breasts. They're not it's not an implication that a biological man can actually squeeze milk out of his breast because he has not given birth to a baby because he cannot. And I just feel like this whole case, you know, sort of shows how deeply problematic this can be when taken to its nth degree, to the nth degree. You know, you can be supportive and then say, and then stop at something like this and say, well, now you're doing something that is potentially endangering of another living being. And really, what is the mental wellness of these two spirit people who don't understand the basic facts about biology? You can live however you want, but if you don't understand the basic facts about biology, how are you going to raise your kid? Yeah. But of course, this is kind of

the natural conclusion to accepting this idea that a man can become a woman or a woman can become a man, or at least the declaration or self-identification can make you something different. Of course, these are still people that are going to want to have children. And if you have people that want to kind of shape society around this idea that gender identity and sex are completely different and that gender identity actually trumps sex, then of course children are going to be brought into the mix. I talk about a lot that children are the unconsenting subjects of social experiments a lot when it comes to progressivism, not just when it comes to transgender ideology

and the situation that we're looking at right now with a man trying to breastfeed a child, but also the gender confusion that I think is unfairly put on kids from a young age and the puberty blockers that a lot of times these kids are put on haphazardly and without any kind of hesitation and without any kind of really discernment and guidance from the medical community and their own parents. But also when it comes to things like population control, when it comes to abortion, all of these progressive agenda items seem to put kids on the altar and say, okay, let's take the most vulnerable population and let's either sacrifice them for the sake of climate change or whatever it is, or, um, let us try to put them in a situation like the one that we're talking about

and just hope that everything works out. And this way, I think that progressivism, it just gets human nature wrong. Like when we have this debate about nature versus nurture, it seems like progressives think that people are the product of their environment, the product of nurturing only. That's why they think, for example, that communism could work, that everyone would just adapt, that we'd be okay with giving up our private property and all living happily together with state-controlled means of production. And they deny that there is any nature there. They deny that there is a nature to own private property to provide for your family in the same way that they deny the biological nature of male and female. They really do think they can socially engineer society and everyone will eventually adapt. Um, if people like you and me would just get out of the way and let that happen.

Well, and it's not just people like you and me, they would say bigots like you and me, right? Any pushback on this and any saying, look, let's be real. Men can't breastfeed. So just stop it. Stop it. Yeah. That's your bigotry talking. It's like, well, you, look, let's be real. Men can't breastfeed. So just stop it. Stop it. Yeah. That's your bigotry talking. It's like, you know what? It's my biology. It's my, it's my knowledge of science, biology, evolution, and history. That's what it is. The fact that you've chosen to abandon that I support you. If you want to delude yourself, I have no problem with it. But now we're talking about our society at large because you're bringing children into it. You're calling your baby a they. You heard that in the soundbite.

And lamenting the fact that you can't get the milk to the child, as if there's no answer to it. Like, why is it? Well, we all know why. And then you get featured and celebrated on a show by somebody who's internationally famous on a platform like Facebook, which won't let you talk about the COVID lab theory, or at least wouldn't for the whole year. But you can talk about why the man can't breastfeed his baby as if it's a mystery to science. OK, but I want to ask you in a moment that go ahead.

Yeah, go ahead. No, you go in a moment that we're talking so much about misinformation, the importance of censoring, quote quote misinformation, not just surrounding the virus or what this administration thinks is misinformation surrounding the virus. But we're seeing a heavy hand, not just by the government, but social media companies to try to hold back what it seems or what it sees as harmful information. But like you said, not this kind of thing. This is fine. So on the subject of kids and how, you know, there's this push to sort of, I don't know, is it liberate them? I emancipate them. It's in the news, uh, this week that there's

a push in, in a growing number of States. New York is one of them. DC is another, not a state, but DC. Um, and I think New Jersey is also one. So all up by me. But California is, of course, coming along to to let them get a vaccine over the objections of their parents. The vast majority of parents said that they were not going to immediately vaccinate kids who are between the ages of 12 and 17, that they wanted to wait and see more longer term testing before they did that. Totally reasonable. Hello there. I'm right there with them. Um, and so these States in response are saying, you know what kids as long as young as 14, maybe even 11 in some of these States should be allowed

to get the vaccine over the objections of their parents. So you can walk into CVS by yourself at age 11 and make medical decisions for yourself. Meanwhile, you know, nothing, you know, nothing at 11, right? You're sweet. You're, you're coming into the world. You're coming into puberty. But the fact that there's a push within the law to treat these kids, they won't even let them buy a pack of cigarettes, but they'll let them decide whether they can inject the COVID vaccine in their arm. And this is a pattern that we're seeing, um, seeing in general when it comes to healthcare or so-called healthcare, when it comes to things like abortion, when it comes to things like gender therapy,

hormone therapy in places like California and Oregon. A teenager as young as 15 can walk into a Planned Parenthood and receive hormone therapy without parental consent. And in some states, as young as 13, a parent can't actually access their child's healthcare records. And so we're kind of seeing this, what I think is a purposeful rift between the parents or an obstacle put in the way of parents to know what's going on with their child's healthcare. And of course, this vaccine is no different than that. And like you said, an 11-year-old, they could be as intelligent and as mature as any 11-year-old is. They just don't have the capacity to yet make decisions that have long-term implications. That's what parents are for. That's why God gave children parents to help guide them and aid in that discernment and to take away that protection, the protection of the one

person in the world who cares about that child more than anything and has the best interest of that child at heart. I think it's criminal. Yeah. And maybe the child doesn't know the full extent of his or her medical background or issues that might make the COVID vaccine dangerous like a grownup would. I mean, it's crazy to think you would let a kid and that's the bill. So I just pulled it up. Um, last fall, the district of Columbia council voted to allow children as young as 11 to get the recommended vaccines without parental consent. It's already happened. New Jersey, New York legislatures have bills pending that would make it so for kids as young as 14. Minnesota has a bill as young as 12 to allow the kids to consent to COVID tests. It's insane. And the poll was by the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Three in 10 parents of kids between the ages of 12 and 17 intend to allow them to be vaccinated immediately for very good reason. Now, the other thing is, so you can, you can let the kids get vaccinated without their parental consent. You can call them. They, you can allow them to try to sustain life on the, on the chest of a biological man. Who's never going to produce milk. Uh, and then according to, I think it's the New York Times, they're telling us that what would be positive and accepting and non-bigoted would be to take your kid to the pride parade and allow them, not just allow them to understand a gay and lesbian, you know, couples and what's important to them, but kink, kink in particular. And there was something, okay, it was,

I think, I feel like it was in the Washington Post. Yeah, it was there was something. Okay. It was, I think, I feel like. It was in the Washington Post. I can't remember. Yeah. No, it was the Washington Post. Yes. Washington Post op-ed promoting kink for kids. Here it is.

And they talk about a mom taking her kids to a pride parade. Okay. Maybe, maybe they want them to be celebratory of or understanding of gay and lesbians. You, by the way, you don't have to go to a pride parade to do that. Just let them live life and they'll encounter gay and lesbian people and see that they're just like any other people. And they're not all into kink. I mean, it's like, okay. So anyway, here's a, here's from the article. Uh, when our children grew tired of marching, we plopped onto a nearby curb, just as we got settled, our elementary schooler pointed in the direction of oncoming floats,

raising an eyebrow at a bare chested man in in dark sunglasses whose black suspenders clipped onto a leather thong. The man paused to be spanked playfully by a partner with a flog. What are they doing? my curious kid asked as our toddler cheered them on. The pair was the first of a few dozen kinksters who danced down the street laughing together as they twirled their whips and batons, some leading companions by leashes. At the time, my children were too young to understand the nuance of the situation, you think? But I told them the truth, that these folks were members of our community celebrating who they are and what they like to do. If we want our children to learn and grow from their experiences at Pride, we should hope that they'll encounter kink when they attend. How else can they learn about the scope and vitality of queer life? Help me. Help me, Ellie. Yeah, there's a there's a lot of things that adults like to do

together that kids who are in elementary school and toddlers don't need to know about and certainly don't need to see. I mean, it is a crime to show a child pornography. And of course, this is not some form of hardcore pornography, but it is at the very least alluding to pornographic behavior, sadistic pornographic behavior. And anyone who thinks that this is something that a child needs to be exposed to, again, I think needs to be evaluated. If we live in any kind of sane society, this would not be on the pages of the Washington Post, one of the most influential mainstream news outlets in the world. And I know they're not necessarily condoning and celebrating everything that's written in their op-ed pages. But the fact that this is

not too scandalous, that someone didn't say, you know what, this is a little predatory. We're talking about children here. This is yet another one of those examples of children being the unconsenting subjects of progressive social experiments. There is nothing good that comes out of this. There is nothing beneficial. There is nothing good that comes out of this. There is nothing beneficial. There is nothing that is necessary to the healthy psychological formation of a child in showing a child kink. And if you actually look into the author of this, she calls herself a former sex worker, the person that she is married to as a man who identifies as a woman. And so apparently this is just she's saying this is what it takes to, I don't know, introduce her child to new lifestyles. But like you said, it's not representative of the vast majority of people who identify as gay, lesbian or even transgender. No, would they support this?

No, would they support this? No, would they support? I mean, I have plenty of gay and lesbian friends, not one of whom would want to see a toddler watching King. Not one of whom would. Right. So it's like this is so typical. It's like some woman. She's probably from, I don't know, Georgetown, what have you here in New York would be the Upper West Side or Brooklyn, who thinks this is what support looks like. This is what being an ally looks like. Meanwhile, she's serving her child's mental health up on a silver platter. And I feel like the problem here is that society used to chastise somebody like this. Society used to sort of send the message that this is not okay. Unfortunately, society also used to send the message that, you know, gay people are bad, lesbians are sinful and need to be rejected and shunned. And that so like we've evolved from those

problematic messages to an overcorrection that is genuinely abusive, but just to a different subset. And now it's kids. Yeah. And look, I'm I'm a social conservative. So I'm conservative theologically when it comes to marriage, when it comes to sexuality and when it comes to gender. And so I'm all the I'm all the way on the other side of hurt. Now, that does not mean that I'm telling my kids to go out there on a street corner and tell people that live differently that they're going to burn in hell.

But to me, this is the equivalent on the other side of doing that. It is just as psychologically harmful to show your kid something that he or she is not mature enough to see as it is, like you said, to be on the other side of the pendulum. It's just as harmful. It's just as unhealthy. And I'm sure there have been studies produced that show, that demonstrate when you show a child this kind of material before they're ready to actually make a decision to see or interact in that way, the harm that it does on them. But again,

I don't think that we really care about as a society as a whole, I don't think we really care about the consequences that this progressive, especially sexual and gender revolution is going to have on kids. I just don't think that most people care enough to pause and ask the question, how is this affecting future generations? It's like, well, then why I bet this woman, when she's intimate with her partner at home, I bet she locks the door. You know, it's like everyone understands there are certain things that are inappropriate for children, right. That would be traumatizing to them, even if, if they don't have a file to put it in, right. Or maybe especially because they don't have a file to put

it in. So like the acknowledgement that that is not age appropriate seems to be flying out the window. You know, we saw that at our kids school when they were getting into the trans issues and showing videos of trans women, um, in tutu spinning around with the makeup, talking about how, you know, purple, if you like purple, you know, perhaps you're actually a girl. It's like, they don't have a file for this. This is inappropriate. And to quote Jenny McCarthy, who I don't agree with on regular vaccine, she's very anti, you know, MMR vaccines and so on, not COVID. But I understood her message because it was nice and clean, which was too much too soon. You know, and I do think that's what's happening right now in our schools, in our streets, in our legislatures, when it comes to our kids.

They should not be swept along in this crazy experiment to be, you know, woke, anti, anti bigoted, which means very different things to different people, you know, and right now, of course, in our schools, it means you have to be shamed for your skin color, and so on, all that. Yeah, you can, I could go on. But the the cultural strain of it, right? I've been listening to you on that. And I just think you're raising some very good points. And a lot of people want to know, okay, where is, where's this coming from? How did we get here? It seems like in the past five to 10 years, things have accelerated so much, not just when it comes to so-called sexual education of our kids, but just society kind of shifting to the last in every

area. And they're right in that things really have accelerated. But a lot of people are also hearing conversations about critical theory. And I think a lot of us in the conservative space are even tired of talking about critical theory and critical race theory because it's everywhere. But you do have to understand that this sexualization of kids, whether it's through some parts of the comprehensive sex education or op-eds in the Washington Post conversations about kids choosing their gender at three years old. All of this is coming from somewhere and it's coming from essentially the same place as critical race theory is. This is from a postmodern critical theory called queer theory. This idea that they would say that kids are already being so-called sexualized by a cisgender

heteronormative patriarchy. And the counter narrative to that, the counter narrative to that has to be some kind of queer theory or queer narrative. So that is exactly why at an early age, they actually believe that it is right and moral and good to expose kids to this kind of what I would call degeneracy in order to create a counter narrative to the presiding hegemony of the patriarchy. So this is, it's never just coming from nowhere. These, what seem like sudden changes in our culture, especially when it comes to sex and gender, why we're talking about race and racism in such different ways than we were just 10 years ago. This stuff has been building really since I would say mid 20th century, but definitely, you know, 1960s. And it's just

accelerated over the past five to 10 years. But it has philosophical and academic roots. And now it's just becoming mainstream. Cisgender, heteronormative, patriarchy. It's so good. I'm impressed with your ability to put all that just on top of your head. Up next, you know, you get called names, you get called a lot of names, and you push back against the woke crowd. And you certainly do as an evangelical Christian, even before we had a thing called woke. So how does Allie Beth deal with that? That's next. If people don't know this, Black Lives Matter on its website used to have this right on there saying that that's that's what they want to stop.

You know, they wanted to to dismantle the nuclear family. And this is what they're talking about. They want people like the ones featured on the Courtney Cox show to be mainstream. And they want straight couples who are raising their kids with a man and a woman at the helm of the family to be less prevalent and less dominant in sort of the narrative. And it's like, you can be accepting of alternative lifestyles without being diminishing of the vast majority of people and the way they live their lives. You know, men and women have been really attracted to each other for the entirety of human history. And there's no reason to make that weird or try to pretend it's the minority in even people like me who, you know, I'm Catholic, but I'm, I'm definitely to the left of you when it

comes to some of these issues, but I don't like this stuff either. You know, I don't, I don't like this stuff. And I feel like I get confused because it's like, look, I want to be supportive of you, but now you're crossing over into dangerous lanes where I cannot be. And I, you know, eventually all roads lead to the same place, Allie Beth, which is we all get called bigots. Any pushback is, yeah. And so how do you deal with that? Because I'm sure you've heard that. Yes, of course. And I get that question a lot. I get that question in particular when it comes to parents who are uncomfortable with what their kids are learning in regards to race, but also sexuality at their schools. Or they see their friends reposting something by Black Lives Matter or some other left-wing organization.

And they say, okay, I really want to say something. Your podcast has helped me, kind of equipped me know what to say in these conversations, but they're going to call me a racist. They're going to call me a bigot. They're going to call me a transphobe, whatever it is. How do I deal with that? And I just say, you have to accept that's coming for you. You have to accept that they are going to call you that you have to know who you are, uh, what you believe in and why. And then you just have to double down. You have to realize that the cancel mob, the rage mob is absolutely going to come for you. Unless you are willing and ready to capitulate everything that you believe in. Unless you are ready to become a full-blown progressive, they're coming for you.

They're going to call you names. They're going to try to cancel you. And so just accept that. Don't say, if I get canceled or if I get called a racist or if I get called a bigot, you're going to. So just accept that, realize that it's going to happen, and then double down. Because just like bullies, bullies are intimidated by people who don't back down in the face of bullying. And as I've heard other people say, I think you've had him as a guest on your podcast, Christopher Rufo, courage begets courage. And so when you see someone standing up in the face of the cancer mob and say, you know what, I don't care what you call me. I don't care what you call me. Biology isn't bigotry. This is what I believe. I don't believe in, you know, characterizing people by oppressed

versus oppressor based on their skin color. That's not right. And I'm not going to stand for it. When you see one parent doing that, that courage then inspires other courage, like a contagion. And so either get someone else's courage, borrow it for a second, for that split second of bravery to stand up and speak up about the things that that you believe in, or be that person that is going to start the contagion of courage for people around you, because I promise it will. And Douglas Murray, too about how, sure, you could sort of navigate all the minefields just exactly right so no one ever calls you the mean names. You could do that. And how's that going to feel dying in your bed, right? All these years later. How's that going to feel? I lived the

perfect life. I never offended anyone. Oh, by the way, I never stood up for what I knew in my heart was right either. Yeah. Okay. Let me ask you, because the other piece of this is take a look at the people who are pushing these messages on you who are using terms like that. It just emerged that Nicole Hannah Jones, with whom I had a fun little Twitter fight over the weekend. I saw that. I saw that. She said, what a moron she is. She's like, I tweeted out something, by the way, here's a good update in the culture war fights. We talked about on the show last week how the Biden administration was trying to reward her false and felonious and libelous claims about the United States and her 1619 project quietly as she gets condemned by scholars on both sides of the aisle without

owning her corrections or deletions, right? That so they want to teach that to our kids in school. Well, no. Um, and so they were going to give grants to high schools that did it. And they had to offer that up for public comment because it was being done by an administrative agency. Long story short, the people spoke up and they backed off. They reversed themselves. The Biden administration did. So, yay, that's a victory. And I tweeted something good about it.

She tweeted out back to me something like, I guess it's good you're no longer pretending to be a journalist. This woman saw that who just did all the stuff. OK, so so she's not I mean, obviously, it's not an honest broker, but it just did all the stuff that I did. Okay. So, so she's not, I mean, obviously it's not an honest broker, but it just came out subsequent to that little dust up. We had that, that she was on a podcast a couple of years ago in 2019, praising Cuba as one of the only countries that has very little inequality between blacks and whites. And that is because it is a communist country and there is no inequality. Everyone is equally poorly off, right? Everybody's in an equally shitty position in Cuba. Thanks to the communist government there. That is the person we're

listening to. That's the person they want in the heads of your kids and mine. And so it's just a reminder, fight, fight. Yeah. Yeah. People like Nicole Hannah Jones and black lives matter and that kind of whole activist class, they're okay with equality. Even if equality means equally miserable there, they would actually rather people be equally mediocre, equally poor, equally destitute than there be some people who are well off. They would rather have that, the former, than the latter, which goes to show that their definition of justice and fairness and so-called equity actually leads to injustice, the way that we're seeing in Cuba. And black lives matter for a very long time has been very open in their support of communist regimes for example like in venezuela a few years

ago they actually called out both hillary clinton and bernie sanders um for going against nicholas maduro in venezuela and calling him a dictator whatever they've been very open about their acceptance of communism and the fact that there are people who I would say even center right, and especially Christians, it just grieves me to try to embrace the organization of Black Lives Matter and the 1619 project in some phony pursuit of nuance and acceptance. Like, do you know what you're doing? And the answer is, in most cases, no, they don't. That's right. No, BLM very openly of the regime, openly supportive of the regime in Cuba. So people don't know. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt and say they don't know what they're supporting when

they say, OK, I'm pro BLM and I'm going to fly the BLM flag. They're talking about let's end racism. Well, do your homework, because that organization stands for much more than that. And yes, they're anti inequality, I guess, when it comes to skin color. But, you know, this is the same. Patrishe Cullors, she's not going to give back her four million dollar properties in the name of equality. No. Oh, no, no. That's not OK. And Colin Kaepernick and his multimillion dollar deal with Nike, he's not giving back the money in the name of equality. These same people are not going to say the United States Americans shouldn't take the covid vaccine until all of Africa has been vaccinated. They equality is a is a natural inequality is a natural part of life.

It's not to say it's awesome, but it's a natural product of different choices, you know, and in some cases where you're born. So it's sort of, they draw the line when it comes to their own well-being. Yeah. It's like Thomas Sowell says, if two people from the same family, if siblings can end up in different places in life because of variety of choices that they make, but you know, they came from the same environment, the same upbringing, then how can you expect two people from different parts in the country, from different families, different backgrounds, different sets of talent, different intellectual capacity, how can you expect those two people to end up in the same

place and say that it's injustice if they don't? It just doesn't make any sense. Their idea of fairness is being equal outcomes. As Kamala Harris said a couple of days before the election in that little cartoon video that she put out on Twitter. It's so superficial. And I like to remind people, I think my audience is primarily evangelical Christian. And while it's important, obviously, we believe in seeking justice and true justice for people and anywhere that there is injustice and oppression, pushing one group down explicitly, not just impact, but also in intense and is purposely creating that inequality. Of course, we believe in going in there and speaking up and saying something and doing something about that,

but trying to manufacture society so that everyone ends up in the same place. That's not justice. We don't see that precedent in the Bible. Not only that, but heaven is not going to have equality. The first will be last and the last will be first in heaven. And so if that's the case in heaven, in paradise, if there's not equality of outcome, then why are we expecting to be able to engineer that here on earth? Yes, fight for true oppression, not today's social justice version of oppression, but trying to manufacture equal outcomes and pointing to all inequality as evidence of discrimination, it's a fallacy.

It's not going to work. Wait, this is news to me about heaven. What? Well, I mean, the first will be last and the last will be first, says Jesus. What does that mean? There are different, I mean, there are different, um, there are different, uh, there's different judgments and there's different, no, it's not necessarily tears. And I don't really want to get into all of the theological weeds there, but there are, um, you know, you've probably heard of jewels in the crown or different rewards that we get that we end up laying at the feet of Christ in heaven. But yeah, there's not going to be necessarily, we're not guaranteed equality of outcome,

even in heaven. That doesn't mean necessarily that there are different spheres, the way that Dante's Inferno talks about hell. But the point is that it's not a theologically grounded concept to talk about equality of outcome as being the utopian model that we should follow. We don't see that precedent in the Bible. We don't see that promise in the future. Yes, all Christians will be living in perfect peace and joy with our savior. That's what we believe when Jesus comes back and defeats evil and sin once and for all. Absolutely. But this idea of equality of outcome, we just, we don't see that as the basis for justice and even future justice in the Bible. See, I picture it.

I'm not theological at all, but I do picture it like the movie defending your life with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep, where like you have the opportunity to argue yourself and do a better position. You know, like it's just as soon as you're looking at all my sins and saying, you know, you get, you get a divorce, you never got an annulment. I'm working on it, by the way. Um, I can say, I understand all that, but I am also the granddaughter of Francis De Mayo and she was like a saint. So that's got to move me up at like a tier or two. Let me tell you, yes. Well, actually, you know, you are kind of talking about this from a, in a lawyerly way. Yes. Okay. But that's, that's good that you see it that way, because that is in a way an

accurate picture, except that we are not our own advocates, according to the Bible, that Jesus Christ is actually our advocate, that he is the one interceding for us. And because of his sacrifice, he has made us clean. So it's not anything that you or I do, but by grace through faith in Christ, he is the one that stands in our stead and said, you know what? I know that she's done X, Y, Z.

I know that she is guilty of this, but I paid for her sin in full on the cross. She believes in me and therefore she has my righteousness. She has my clean slate. So that picture that you have of advocating for yourself, of arguing for yourself, that's partly right, except that Jesus Christ is our advocate and that's the freedom. Like the freedom is, is that I get to trust that the perfect one, the son of God is the one that's standing in my stead that I can't give good enough arguments for myself because I'm guiltier than I can even imagine. We all are,

but Jesus being perfect, he is the one who stands in my stead and says, nope, it's not that she deserves it, but that she has taken on my righteousness and my holiness, imputed it by grace through faith in my sacrifice for her. So it is fun to think about it. If you think about like an opposing lawyer in there, you're like moved to strike objection, Jesus. Well, that's right too. That's right. You say you're not theological, but you do. I mean, that is what it is because the Bible calls Satan, the accuser that he is the one standing there and saying, yeah, but she did this. She's guilty of this. She's wrong in this way. And Jesus Christ, he has never lost a case in

his whole life. He's the one, or in all of eternity, I should say, he's the one who says, he silences the accuser and he's got the best evidence, which is his perfection, which he gives to us through faith. Maybe all those Sundays in church when I was younger, I'm not so good now, have sunk in on some, it's still in there, Allie Beth. That's what I can hope. Up next, why did Meghan and Harry get an award for publicly declaring that they're only going to have two children?

We'll explain and Allie Beth Stuckey calls out their hypocrisy. Next. Did you hear about this ridiculous Megan and Harry got an award for saying they're only going to have two children? I mean, they'll award, you know, they pick up a fork and use it properly. They get an award for it. The Oprah interview has been nominated for an Emmy for, fine, you know, fine achievement in nonfiction interviews. Really? I mean, I could go down the list of non-truths that Meghan Markle told in that interview. It just off the top of my head.

But anyway, so they, she gets, Oprah gets a nomination for that. They get an award from an environmental group called Population Matters for publicly declaring they're only going to have two children. And I wonder what you think about that because I like it when I see families with lots of children, assuming they can provide for the children. And I wonder what you think about that, because I like it when I see families with lots of children, assuming they can provide for the children, right? Like I don't like to see a family that's not already taking care of its kids, have eight kids. But you see a couple that's in love that, you know, can adequately school and clothe and feed the kids. I'm like, you go for it. You know, we're Americans. We should increase our birth rate. It's a, it's a privilege to be born in this country, but there seems to be a growing tide

against it. Yeah. And what I've said is that there's nothing wrong with limiting your kids to two, but to do it because you believe that children are a debit to the future rather than a credit that they're actually taking something away from not just our environment, but society in general, rather than adding something to it. I think that that's the wrong mentality. Again, it's the wrong view that progressivism has of human beings, of just basically people who are occupying space and taking up resources rather than what most people are, which is adding to society, a benefit to society, um, in some way. And I also want to point out the hypocrisy here is that Megan and

Harry live in an 18,000 square foot home. And I guarantee you, they are not taking the dart bus when they're traveling. Um, and so the family in the Midwest has seven kids who lives within their means, who is not living in a mansion. They're not taking a private jet every time they have to go somewhere. They're doing more to help the environment, whether they know it or not. Then Harry and Meghan are with their carbon footprint, only having two kids. So who really deserves the award here? I don't think it's them. You know what? I live in a high rise on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. I have a much smaller carbon footprint, even though I have three kids. I want the award. Basically, a climate activist. Yes, yes. And you should probably get it.

Actually, no. No, I don't. In fact, it's funny because you look at the bios of all these journalists and it's always like Emmy award winning, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, let me tell you, nobody who grew up at Fox News has a single award. And it's not because the mainstream media hates Fox, which it does. It's because Roger Ailes strongly believed we should never, ever be submitting any of our work product for awards because that was not the group of people we wanted to please. He always used to say when the left wing blogs start praising you, you need to watch out because

what happens is the same way Georgetown lures a justice like Chief Justice Roberts into sort of coming to their parties and wanting to be loved. That's what the mainstream tries to do with conservatives who are trying to do, you know, more fair and balanced reporting, right? Trying to be an antidote to this far left bias that we see in the mainstream. And that's why you will never see a Fox News reporter with a bunch of awards behind his or her name, because it's just not the company's philosophy to seek the approval of the people who do that. Yeah, that's interesting. I do think that that's probably a lesson for a lot of people. Whose whose approval are you trying to obtain?

I think what we were saying earlier about people trying to save off the cancel mob as long as possible, they start to kind of self censor and they start to add so many caveats to what they believe in so much so-called nuance. That's one of my least favorite words nowadays to what they believe. So as trying to navigate that minefield of what you were talking about, not realizing that, like you were saying, um, that one, it's going to be unfulfilling. And then two, it's never going to work. Eventually you're going to step on a mine and all that work and all that effort and all that hand wringing that you did, um, trying to avoid it. It's just going to, it's not going to matter. It's going to be irrelevant. So you might as well go ahead and

step on the mines. Right. We talked about this a couple months ago, but that the actress Sarah Paulson, she got reamed for she's from American Horror Story, among other things. She got reamed because now this is an openly lesbian woman in a in a lesbian relationship with a woman who's, I think, 20 or 30 years older than she is, who's also an actress. And oh, yes. Yes. I remember her name right now, but she's great. She was on The Practice as judge Kittleson, uh, a show,

which by the way, you must watch if you're looking for something to watch that's older and you haven't seen it. Just watch, start at the beginning of the practice and watch every single episode and you're welcome. Um, same thing,

by the way, for Friday night lights. So she's in an openly lesbian relationship with her, but she made the mistake of not being willing to post her pronouns. Somebody just started to tweak her saying, why don't you post your pronouns in your Twitter bio? She's like, you know what? Lay off. Nope. The white, the woke mob turned on her. She lost her woke card because as to your point, they will always, always find a way to get you.

And she's been very outspoken about, you know, supporting that community. And yet it wasn't enough. It's never enough. So one of the things I was dying to talk to you about, because I listened to your podcast on this before you went on maternity leave and the bill is stalled right now in the Senate, but it passed in the house, the equality act. You've been jumping up and down about this because it's, it's coming back. It's, this is a Democrat favorite and it's been brewing for a long time. Now they have a, you know, democratic president. The Democrats actually believe they might increase their numbers in the Senate and the House in the midterm elections, though I'm not sure the generic ballot supports that. We'll see as we get closer. But this is something

people need to keep an eye on. And you did a great job, I thought, outlining its problems, the Equality Act. It has such a nice name, beth the equality yeah okay i'm pro equality right and anti-discrimination and that's of course what it says that it seeks to do is add gender identity and sexual orientation to the categories in the 1964 civil rights act that are um that people are prohibited from discriminating against but the problem is it also expands the entities that are prohibited from doing so under this law, which is what people are kind of sounding the alarms about, that how is this going to affect churches? How is this going to affect private schools? How is this going to affect doctors, hospitals, Christian or religious charities, even parents, because what this

does is basically it puts discriminating, and I say that in scare quotes, discriminating against people who say a man who identifies as a woman is the same thing as discriminating against someone because they are black or because they're a color that some racist doesn't like. And so a Christian organization or say a private school who believes in the biblical natural definition of what a male and a female is could be in prohibition or in a indirect contradiction of this law if they say, you know what, I'm not going to hire this person that's otherwise qualified, because that's all we believe in. That's against our creed. That's against our belief system. Or say that you have a doctor who is in the same general

industry or say it's a, you know, OBGYN. Let's use that example. This law also says that they will not be able to deny a patient who wants to get an abortion that procedure, that they will actually be forced as a doctor in that realm of medical care to provide an abortion to someone who asks for it, because this particular bill seeks to ban discrimination on the basis of quote pregnancy or pregnancy related medical, uh, medical diagnoses. And that actually includes pregnancy and that would include abortion procedures. And so any, any OBGYN would be forced to perform abortions, even if they don't, if someone, If someone asks for it, it would be considered discrimination if someone, they would say a pregnant person, but if a pregnant woman comes in and says that she wants an abortion, this bill seeks to coerce that doctor into providing that. And if he or she

does not want to provide that based on whatever reason, then it would be in violation of anti-discrimination laws. And so there are all kinds of hidden and insidious points in this bill that really seek to crush any kind of conscience rights, any religious rights, for sure. Even parental rights seem to be on the line in this in the name of, you know, sexual and gender progressivism. And of course, people who don't look into that or think about it because it takes too long to research or to critically ask these questions, they hop on board because who doesn't want equality? Who who is going to be for discrimination? in. But, you know, people just to point out that the hiring, the hiring issue has already been settled by the Supreme Court in a case not long ago saying you cannot they're treating gender identity the same as race, you know, gender and so on that, you know, you can't not hire somebody

because of their gender identity. But what's happening in college campuses and so on, Biden's tried to fix that with an executive order fix in his words, you know, fix, uh, to, to provide for, you know, equal rights, he would say between trans athletes and biological girls and so on. But it's not yet, it's not yet written into the law and an executive order is very different from the law. You just ask Barack Obama and Donald Trump who get all their executive orders reversed when the next guy comes in or gal someday. So the Equality Act is also taking aim at what's happening on college campuses, very much so with the trans community. And one of the things I was thinking about it, you know, recently was there was this dust up. Debbie Murphy can tell me where this was. Was it L.A.? Where did it happen? Where they went into the salon? They

went into a spa, the Wii spa. Yes. Where is that? So it's in LA. Yep. And there was a woman who, um, she was, she claims that she was in there with, um, I guess two of her daughters or two female children who, um, and then she saw a man who I guess identified as a woman walk by and expose himself. I guess he was naked and she complained to the front desk and the women's locker room, right? And the women's locker room. Yes. And the women's locker room. She's there with her girls and she sees a person walk by with a penis exposed. Yeah. And actually we have the soundbite of this woman who was none too happy complaining to the spa manager, which by the way, just before you listen to this,

the spa is a hundred percent standing by its policy of allowing trans women to use the women's locker room. And there's been protests just this past weekend. We saw violent protests on both sides with, you know, battering rams and so on. But here's the woman complaining. Listen. We spa. So, you know, so it's OK. I just want to be clear with you. It's OK. It's OK for a man to go into the women's section, show his penis around other women, young little

girls under age. Your spa, we spa, condone that. Is that what you're saying? Like I asked. So he can stay there. He can stay there? What sexual orientation? I see a dick.

Girls down there, other women who are highly offended for what they just saw. And you did nothing. Absolutely nothing. In fact, you sided with him. So the Winnie Spa is an agreement with men that just say they are a woman and they can go down there with their penis and get into the women's section. Is that what you're saying? I'm a woman who knows how to stand up and speak up for my right. As a woman, I have a right to feel comfortable without a man exposing himself.

OK. I mean, that that brings it home, right? Because it's like if you think about it in the abstract, like, okay, I support trans people and their right to use the bathroom of their choice, right? That's a private act. You go into a single stall bathroom. You do you, you know, I don't care what's going to happen This isn't a private stall. This is a locker room with a young with young girls who I'm sure were confused. And we have seen, though they're isolated, we have seen cases of biological men who identify as trans women actually trying to molest or hurt women or girls in these settings. Again, it's not the norm. It's not what usually happens, but there are enough of them that make the news that I can see how it would be frightening for a child. Right. And people who are gender dysphoric would tell you that this is not normal behavior for someone who has gender dysphoria because there's a serious discomfort in their body if they feel like they are a different gender than the ones that they were born with. And I've

actually, I've seen people that I probably don't agree with on any other subject, but provide a lot of interesting insight into this, that people with dysphoria are very often trying to cover up their bodies. And so the men that you see going in there and exposing themselves to women and in the world of transgender activism because they see that as delegitimizing transgenderism or, you know, people's said identity. But it has to be, like, we have to have some adherence, like you've said, to reality. And we can't say that someone's self-declaration and self-identity has more of a right to impose itself than a child's safety or a woman's safety. And that's actually part of the danger of the Equality Act is that under the Equality

Act, it's going to be very difficult, if possible, for women's shelters, for women's prisons, like we've said, locker rooms and bathrooms to say that, you know, no, this is a female exclusive space. And by female, we mean a biological female. And so it's just that's already seen it with prisons, right? We're already seeing prisons where they've had huge numbers out in California of of biological men. Trans women say they want to be in the women's prisons. And honestly, like the people who are supposed to care about women couldn't give two figs about what is happening

to the biological women who are literally in cages now in prisons who are being forced to now room with these biological men, trans women who just declare. And by the way, in California, you don't have to have any history of being trans, right? You don't, you don't really have to prove it. You just self-declare and the women's prisons tend to be more forgiving, tend to be nicer places, but from what I hear. And so a lot of biological men are suddenly saying, oh, I'm trans and the state is allowing it. They don't care at all about the women who are on the receiving end of this. Just like that spa didn't care at all about the women who are on the receiving end of this, just like that spa didn't care at all about those two young girls.

Yeah. And there are feminists talking about this. I don't consider myself a feminist, but I have found myself in conversations with a lot of people who consider themselves radical feminists because they truly do care about the sex-based rights of women and understand if rights are not sex-based for women, then they really aren't rights at all. And I think the prison system is one example of that. And there's also a reason that you're not seeing it the other way around. Like you're not seeing women who identify as men saying, please sign me up for men's prison. It's absurd. And you would think also that transgender activists or people who are advocated on behalf of transgender people, that they would have a problem with this. Because what's going to happen is that this is going to swing too far in the other direction. When you start coming after people's kids, when you start preying upon women in the name of transgenderism, whether they're transgender or not, then you're going to get everyone all of a sudden freaking

out and saying, hang on a second, this is too far because this is affecting other people in a negative way. And you would think if you really just wanted progress and equality for transgender people, for them to be able to live the lives they want to live, you would be doing everything you can to say, no, no, no, no, that's not us. Like, that's not what we stand for. That's not what we represent. All we want is to be basically left alone and to live the lives that we want to live. But unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the stand that a lot of activists, at least in the transgender world, or that's not the stand that they're making. It's true. That's not even touching on how, you know, we're not allowed to call it breastfeeding more. And now it's chest feeding. We're not allowed to call it breastfeeding more.

And now it's chest feeding. We're not allowed to refer to ourselves as mothers. We have to say birthing people. It's like unless people like you and me and everybody else just says, no, I refuse. No. Mother is the thing. Sorry if you don't like it too bad. It's they're going to they're going to win because already that's being written into

law by the Biden administration. Their policies are referring to birthing people. They're getting rid of the term mother. We've seen lawmakers have fights over this. And the Democrats who are pushing this language are winning. Can I ask you, I loved your book and it's called, she came out in 2020. It's called, this is so provocative and it's interesting, right? Cause it's kind of, anyway, I'll, I'll read it. It's you're not enough. You're not enough. And that's OK. Escaping the toxic culture of self love. This is so you see, you're only 29 years old. You're very wise for a young, young woman. Explain what that means. So we are constantly bombarded, especially as women, as young women on social media with these messages that you're enough as you are, that you're perfect as you are, that it's a privilege for anyone to be in your life.

Anyone who contradicts you or steals your joy or steals your shine is just toxic and needs to be cut out of your life. And all of the problems that you are facing, all the insecurities that you have, all this feeling of anxiety or depression is actually not because of you or anything that's wrong with you. It's actually because of all of these systems outside of you. So it's because of the patriarchy.

It's because of capitalism. It's because of society, whatever that means. It's because of marketing and advertising and unfair expectations for women. It's because of your kids that are just draining you and have turned you into something that you're not. And so in order to finally be fulfilled and be happy and be free, you have to release yourself of all of these societal expectations and standards and realize that you are enough.

You're sufficient as you are. And everyone else just has to recognize that. And once you love yourself as much as possible, once you are confident in every single flaw and quirk that you have, then finally, you will be free to pursue your dreams, to start a business, to be successful, to have healthy relationships. And I just don't think that's true. First, I think it starts with a false premise that there is this big deficit of self-love in our country. I don't think there is any indication that we are struggling to love ourselves. I think that we are way too obsessed with ourselves. Now, that self-obsession can absolutely produce self-loathing and self-

resentment and insecurity. I think that's true. But this idea that we need to focus on ourselves more and then we'll be happier, what indication do we have in society at all that we're not focusing on ourselves enough? I don't think that's the problem. And the issue is the self can't be both the problem and the solution. So if inside yourself, you're finding all of these issues, you're not going to find a solution to those problems in the same place where the problems lie. And so this is a Christian book. And I argue that you're not enough, like you're not sufficient to be everything that you need. You can't be the perfect employer or employee, the perfect mom, the perfect wife, the perfect friend, all at the same time. You

actually are in desperate need from help, not just from other people, but I argue from the God who created you, that he actually created us to be dependent on him, not just for our everyday life and for strength and sustenance throughout our lives, but also ultimately for salvation, that we are finite, that we are fallible, that we are made dependent. And that's a good thing. We don't have to carry this weight of having to empower ourselves and fulfill ourselves and love ourselves enough to just be happy one day that we get to release that responsibility, which was never ours in the first place and place it on the only one who can carry that burden, which is God himself. And the reason that's good news is

because self-love and our ideas of enoughness and self-sufficiency change. They are very fluctuating, undulating. They depend on our feelings, what other people say about us, our circumstances of the day, but who God says that we are does not change because he doesn't change. So if my identity and my worth and my confidence comes from that, then I don't have to worry about constantly trying to drum up just enough self-love to make myself successful or happy. So again, it just releases us. Exactly. It's not working. It's not working. We've done it. We've been doing this for 20 years. It is. I think we were happier when we had real responsibilities that we knew we had to live up to and, and real goals, you know,

like work hard. And, and you also talking there about like your experience working in PR, you know, like work hard. And you also talking there about like your experience working in PR, you know, sometimes you don't actually have to love your job. You know, if it puts food on the table and it's paying the bills and you're a contributing member of society, maybe you're not entitled to have the perfect job where everybody pussyfoots around you and you just walk through life saying, I nailed it. And maybe we should set higher standards for ourselves when it comes to, you know, our, our health and our wellbeing. And we don't have to celebrate everybody's choice, even if it leads to you being 400 pounds overweight as also a healthy choice, right? Maybe we can stick to science, right. And say, actually, that's not healthy. We hope you're emotionally well, but that's not a healthy choice. And it's not what I want my child to make and so on.

Yeah. And I think it goes back to like, what is your definition of love to the point that you're making? Everyone says that, you know, loving is affirming and accepting everyone's lifestyle, everyone's choices, and it's judgmental and bigoted to say that anything is wrong. But I think it's a faulty definition of love. If love is wanting what is best for people, if love is wanting what will ultimately lead to the best fulfillment, then there are going to be choices that we say, you know, probably aren't the best. That doesn't mean you hate the person. If someone decides, you know what, I am not going to be healthy at all. And I am going to be, you know, 400 pounds, never work out, whatever it is. You can say, you know what? I still love you as a person.

I still think that you are worth, you know, all the good things in the world and I will support you and still be your friends. But because I love you so much and I really want what's best for you. I also, you know, want your life to be good. Like I want you to enjoy life and all these things. Do you think those same people would let their kids sit down with unlimited McDonald's? Just have it. Just have as many quarter pounders as you want. You go for it. I'll get you five more sets of fries, but never, right? Like they, they exactly, they know that that is unhealthy food to eat and it will lead to an unhealthy body result. And even, even if it were something like cauliflower or broccoli, no parent would just say, eat yourself to oblivion. And as the scale numbers

kept rising, never intervene, right. To try to do something for their kids, because we know that's actually not healthy. You try to teach your kids good habits. So the same thing applies with an adult. You don't, you don't, in order to be supportive of somebody, you don't have to say, you know, extremely morbidly obese people have made a lifestyle choice. That's perfectly acceptable. You can say that's not healthy, but don't, you know, be loving and you don't have to comment on them at all, but we've, we've reversed it in society to where we're celebrating it. Yeah. And I think for whatever, for whatever reason, we have kind of imbibed this very superficial and pithy and fleeting definition of what it means to be compassionate and empathetic and loving. But I think of times in my life when

maybe I wasn't making the best choices in college or something like that. The people that meant the most to me were the people who said, you know what? I think that you're better than this. Like this guy that you're dating or the behavior that you're exhibiting right now, it's not you. You're not living up to your values. And I think that it's going to take you down a bad path to heartbreak. I think this is going to hurt you, but who remains my friends, even when maybe I didn't listen to them or I didn't take their advice right away. And I think that that is a better demonstration of love and the people that I think back and just enabled me or allowed me,

have allowed me to make bad choices in my life. I mean, some of the most meaningful conversations I've had, whether they're with my parents or with my husband or other important people in my life have been those conversations where someone said, look, the choice that you're about to make, or the choices that you are making, or the choices that you're, you know, thinking about making are not good. They're not good. And they're not going to lead down a bad path. Now I'm going to support or they're not going to lead down a good path. But

I'm going to support you no matter what. And I love you. And I believe in you. I think that if we could revert to that kind of friendship and that kind of support rather than full fledged acceptance of every single choice that people make, we'd be a lot better off. I think about, cause like I interviewed when I was at NBC, um, a woman who was very overweight, she's got a television show and I have to say she owns her body and she's not ashamed of it. And I loved that. I did feel inspired by her self-confidence. I was like, you know what, this is great. Cause we do freaking shame women in particular for their body image and it's BS. I'm like so over it. Um, so I liked that,

but I don't see that the same as, you know, taking somebody who is morbidly obese and holding them up as, as an example to follow because it isn't, it's, it's not a healthy lifestyle. And all you need to do is talk to your general practitioner about it. And he'll tell you, you know, how, how dangerous it can be and how many heart problems are caused. And obesity leads to a whole raft of problems that nobody really wants to deal with. And we can be honest about both things, you know? Yeah. Can I ask you about that, though? Because you write in your book about you, how you suffered from bulimia for a while. And I wonder, can you talk about that? Because speaking of the incredible pressure that society puts on young women, right, to be, quote, perfect in their physical appearance and just the stress

coping mechanisms that young women tend to develop, whether it's bulimia, anorexia, cutting. Even now, even now, I do believe as Lisa Lippman, you know, the professor and doctor at Brown concluded, the trans thing can be attributed to a lot of women who are struggling with control issues. It's sort of the new anorexia is what she poses, which is controversial to say, but I understand the point if you look at the numbers. Anyway, can you talk about how you got pulled into that and pulled out? Yeah. So that's kind of how I start my book. It kind of sets the foundation of my book is kind of going down this path of attempted self-empowerment and self-love and self-sufficiency and realizing that I was actually going towards a dead end. And part of that path was an eating disorder that actually started out

as just not eating. So kind of a form of anorexia, although I would have never said at the time that I was anorexic, I would have said, well, no, I'm just, you know, taking my health seriously. I'm just working out really hard. And oh, yeah, you know, I skip a few meals every now and then. But what I've realized since is that the definition of anorexia isn't strictly starvation and only drinking water. It is, it can be sustaining yourself as much as possible to survive, but still restricting your calories so much that you're losing weight rapidly. And that's what was happening with me. And it became, it was a consequence of a heartbreak. I had been dating someone for a very long time who I think became kind of part of my identity.

And when that fell through, when I thought that it was going to eventually end in marriage, when that fell through, I kind of had an identity crisis of who am I? And I've just spent the vast majority of my college experience with this person and have I missed out on all the fun, all the partying that I didn't really do because I was dating this person. And also because it was part of my identity to be a good girl and straight

laced and all that stuff. And so I kind of decided my last semester of college, okay, well, I'm going to try all this stuff that, you know, other people have been trying, um, for all of college. I'm going to, you know, drink heavily on the weekends. I'm going to go to all these parties. I'm going to have all these different guys. And somewhere within that, I think it was the attention that I was getting from friends and from guys and parts, sadness and depression from the breakup that I decided, you know what? It feels really good to comment or for people to comment on how I look. It feels really good to get the affirmation. And I started to lose weight. And then I realized I just couldn't stop. But eventually with anorexia, you get hungry. And

so I started to eat and I would eat a lot at one time because maybe I had gone all day without eating. So you need a lot at one time and then you feel guilty. You feel this shame. And so you purge. It's called a binge and purge cycle. And I was last semester of college doing that and thinking, okay, this is just like, I totally have this under control. I can stop anytime that I want to. Not a big deal. I'm just kind of in this stage. I'm dealing with a break. I'm finding myself. I was really telling myself and really thought that I was actually in a very good and healthy place at the time. I thought that I was loving myself and caring for myself, which I know sounds so deluded. But when people are telling you that you look good,

when you have people telling you, oh, you're just living your life, you're having fun. And this is how you rebound from a breakup. All that stuff sounds and feels really good. And you can actually delude yourself into thinking that all the choices that you're making are the right ones. You're getting into your revenge body. Yes, yes, exactly. And so that just feels good. It feels like self empowerment. But then I graduated from college and I took a job in PR and I moved to a different city and I couldn't stop. And I didn't know why, but I wouldn't tell myself that I was addicted to anything. But once you get used to a certain weight and how you look, and I never looked like emaciated or anything because I was still working out and, and eating some and all of

that, but I just wanted to look a certain way. It's really hard to stop. They just look good. Like that's the, that's the lure of bulimia. They just look thin. They look, it's not like a, uh, and this is a generalization, but anorexics tend to look more skeletal and bulimics who are taking in some calories don't. And that's, so they get discovered less frequently, you know, they have interventions less frequently. Yep. Yep. And, um, yeah, so I just didn't really see a need to stop and I would make excuses for myself for like, whenever I would kind of binge and purge that, Oh, like, yeah, my stomach was, or it's you lie to yourself. You just find yourself lying to yourself. And it's so hard to uncover those lies because you don't even realize that you're doing it. And then one day, and I don't even know what exactly

sparked it, but I think I just one day realized, okay, like this has trapped me and this has never been who I am. Like I've never been someone who's really struggled with my mental health or struggled with any kind of addiction. And I guess it just hit me one morning. I was actually at work that I'm trapped in this. Like I'm a slave to this. I can't actually free myself. I keep telling myself it's a stage. It's not.

And so I just, I just searched for a Christian counselor in the area. I found one long story short, we had a few sessions and she, I showed up one day and she had like this stack of papers that I guess was research. And she said, look, you know, you keep on telling me that you're going back and forth with the throwing up. Here's the deal. You're going to die. Like you are going to die. If you keep doing this, this is not something you can sustain. This is a deadly disease, but if you keep doing it, you will die. And it just hit me that, oh, I'm not just, this is not just, you know, a bad harmful cycle, which of course it is. But I pictured myself, I was 22 at the time. I pictured myself 23, 24 years old in a hospital bed, dying, not being able to live my life because of this stupid thing

that I was addicted to. And I don't mean to say that, you know, being able to live my life because of this stupid thing that I was addicted to. And I don't mean to say that, you know, rudely to people who are still struggling with it, but it is stupid in the, in the realist sense of the word that it's insane that you are lying to yourself and deluding yourself about things. And you have to have someone just kind of like, I don't know, like unload you with all of the delusion that you have placed on yourself and uncover all of the lies and say, no, here's what's really happening. Here's who you really are. Here's what choices you're really making. Here are the real consequences. Um, and that's what broke it for me. It was like, I just needed someone to slap me in

the face. Metaphorically turn the lights on. No one likes the lights turned on when it's been dark for a long time, hurts your eyes, you're angry, you're defensive. And yet being in the light is much better than being in the dark. And so by the grace of God through counseling, which is not right for everyone, I don't think everyone has to go to a therapist. That's a lie that we hear a lot today, but for people who need it, if you're in a cycle that you cannot break out of, and you keep telling yourself that you will, but you can't, there is no shame whatsoever in getting professional help. I just needed someone. Um, and thank God, like by the grace of God. If you're in a cycle and you keep telling yourself you can get out of it and you can't, you need help. That's a good, that's sort of a good thumbnail on when it's time to seek outside assistance.

You know, not for nothing, but my mom is a psychologist and she's she's been she was she worked at the V.A. helping the vets for her entire career in psychology. And she's a psychiatric nurse. And she did some private counseling for a while. And she said in her experience, eating disorders were the toughest cases that the hardest ones to pull tends to be women. But can be, I think it's something like 11% or less are men. And she said there was one case she had that the woman was just such a severe anorexic. And she said to her, what you heard, you're going to die.

And the woman didn't hear it. And my mom took her to a funeral home and show her at a wake what a dead body looks like. And that's what it took. That did it. That turned the light on you, as you say. But you do have to come to that realization that this behavior, I don't know if maybe it's not like mainlining heroin where your rational brain knows this is deadly, you know, food, food is so complicated. We have, we must have it. It's life sustaining. And yeah, I'm sure there's a logic of like, I've actually never binged and purged in my life. I just hate throwing up too much. I just can't do it. But, um, I'm sure there's a logic that like, I'm not throwing out

throwing up all the calories I can still I look healthy, I can still be sustaining and maintain this practice. Yeah. I mean, the self manipulation is, is really endless. And also what you were saying about what your mom did, and what my counselor did, I think in a lot of different contexts, maybe other than an eating disorder, we don't really mainline that right now. People don't say that it's good to starve yourself or binge and purge, but in other ways we do, what we've been talking about is mainline things that are not healthy and are going to have similar consequences. And what the patient of your mom and I experienced that actually, you know,

helped us get better. We're told it's unloving in different contexts. So if a doctor sat down with, you know, a young person and said, look, I understand that you want, um, a double mastectomy and I understand that you want to become a man, but look, here are the things that I don't actually think that this is going to be good for you. And here are the consequences that this could possibly lead to. If you go down this path of trying to quote, become a man as a teenage girl, like that's going to be a bad path or like obesity. Like you said, um, saying that, Hey, this is going to take you down a bad path that I don't think you want to go down. I don't think that you want to die when you're 35 being morbidly obese. That is seen as hateful. And yet I can tell you that someone being harsh with me and turning on the lights, which in other contexts would be

seen as hateful or bigoted or judgmental or whatever helped save my life. And so again, what is loving? Like what is love? Is love just endlessly accepting people's choices, even though you know, it's going to take them down a bad path or is love speaking truth into someone's life in a gentle and compassionate way, knowing that that truth could literally set them free. So what do you want for people? Do you want them to abide in their own misery because you're afraid of speaking up or do you want the best for them? To me, that's love. Yeah. Yeah. Well said. And you think about it like, what would I tell my own child? You know, I mean, and of course the responsibilities are different, right? It's, it's, if I see somebody who is clearly an anorexic on the street,

it's not my place to go over and say, you need help. And how can I be of assistance? That would be crossing the boundary. But if it's my child, it's a totally different field. But I, and we're in a place where we're discussing these issues and, you know, back to the trans thing as a society, and it does involve the kind of society that our kids are going to grow up in. And we forever for time in memoriam have felt free to opine on the wellbeing of children. And what are the standards we're going to set for kids that allow wellness, you know, that foster wellness. And, and I just don't believe that includes you while you can support a trans kid at school, you can be loving, kind, non, non-bullying. You should not be putting trans kids up on the school stage and giving them snaps for announcing they're trans because we don't know in too many of the cases, whether it's

actual gender dysmorphia, we don't know, or whether it's a phase they're going through, because in, you know, something like 75% of the cases, I don't have the number in front of me, they grow out of it. And now more and more, I think it's even higher than that. Yeah. Yeah. It's even higher. I think it may be in the eighties, but now more and more we're seeing, um, young, young, young, young teenagers have double mastectomies and then completely regret it. Right. And what can you do then? And going on cross-gender hormones and then directly to, well, first puberty blockers, then cross-gender hormones, which renders you infertile. You can't reverse it. So you should

not be giving them snaps. You don't know what's really happening, especially we have a medical community in which now the standard is one thing, a firm, no matter what. They don't know anything about the kid. They don't know if the parents had a divorce this year. They don't know if the kid's desperate for attention for whatever reason. They don't know if this is just a non-gender conforming girl, right? She's more sort of manly in her look and her approach to life. That would have been me, Allie Beth. You know, I was a total tomboy. I looked like a boy for most of my childhood. I never wore anything than dirty jeans and a sweatshirt and wanted to play and did play on the boys teams. Today, they'd be telling that version of me. I'm a boy. I'm all girl. We're really confused right now as a society. We're very confused because these are the same people who are saying that we need to kind of crush gender stereotypes and yet they're affirming

The most overt gender stereotypes by saying that okay a little girl who wants to play with trucks is probably a boy And maybe you need to start asking the pronouns and whether or not they feel like a boy The power of suggestion is so strong for kids that a kid who like me, I was the same way. I had two older brothers, never wanted to wear a dress. Any kind of frilly thing really embarrassed me. Like I really wanted to wear a white t-shirt and jeans. I wasn't athletic, so I can't call myself a tomboy necessarily, but I just wasn't girly. I still am not a very frilly person.

I'm just not like that, but I've never ever questioned whether I'm not a girl, but I do wonder, okay, if I had been raised in the context of today, if a preschool teacher, you know, not telling my parents, because that's apparently how it is today, ask me, Hey, you know, I noticed that you never wear a dress. You know, who else doesn't wear a dress? Boys don't wear dresses. Do you maybe feel more like a boy? I noticed that you like, you know, reading books about snakes, which was a really weird stage that I went through in like second grade. Um, you know, maybe, maybe you're a boy who knows what my impressionable mind would have thought if this was a teacher that I looked up to, or maybe just an older person and mentor I looked up to started suggesting that I would at least be confused enough to be thinking

about that and dwelling on that. And I'm afraid that's what we're doing to kids who are very much boys and girls who maybe don't like the same things that traditionally boys and girls do. Who cares? Let a boy who likes ballet be a boy, a firm that it is awesome for boys to like ballet. It is awesome for boys to like dance or whatever it is. It is awesome for boys to like ballet. It is awesome for boys to like dance or whatever it is. It's awesome for girls to like baseball. That is great. Why are we telling kids to basically hate themselves and hate their bodies? Why aren't we telling kids in the age of self-love to love their bodies and to say, you know, you were created this way. Your body is awesome. Being a boy is awesome. Being a girl is awesome.

You like what you want to like. Don't leave me now. We got more coming up in 60 seconds. When we lure them into these radical procedures on their own bodies, you know, even without parental consent. And then when you see the detransitioners, the people who are like, oh my God, I made a terrible, terrible mistake. Thanks to this negligent medical community that only affirmed me and never actually made sure this is what I wanted. And these are children. So it's not all on them. Um, they are completely disowned and ostracized by the trans activists as somehow,. That mob, that's a mean mob. When they come for you, the detransitioners get bullied so badly. It's like once you're into the

club, you have to stay in forever or they'll make sure you are publicly shamed and ridiculed. It's like the support only lasts as long as your delusion does, because these are people that detransitioners who say I wasn't actually trans. Yeah. And that's why this whole mantra of just be yourself and be authentic and we're celebrating authenticity. That's what a lot of the LGBTQ activists say. That's what organizations like GLAAD say. It's not true because these detransitioners are being authentic. They realize that they made a mistake, that they really are their biological sex, which I believe, of course, everyone is, but they identify as their biological sex. Well,

that authenticity isn't celebrated. So obviously this isn't about authenticity. It's not about individuality. It is actually about being one way or celebrating one way. A lot of people have joked even that, um, a lot of the gender transition that we're seeing being pushed on young people is a form of conversion therapy that, um, a lot of people who would just end up gay, um, are, you know, being told that because you're more feminine as a guy, you're actually a girl. And so they end up gay, um, are, you know, being told that because you're more feminine as a guy, you're actually a girl. And so they end up being quote straight. It's very confusing. I'll do you one worse than that. That's as bad as that would be. And is, um, some,

some kids who are autistic, who are on the spectrum are saying that they're trans because it's a more acceptable form of difference, right? That it's, and we've had, we've had D D transitioners come out and talk about this and parents talk about this, how they were socially awkward or whatever. They had a mild form of Asperger's and sort of landed on the trans thing as a more socially acceptable. Again, you get the snaps, um, place to land than, than this other issue that they've been dealing with. And so it's like, we must probe, we must have responsible medical professionals who ask meaningful questions and really make sure it used to be, you'd have to live your life as a, as a woman, if you were

biological male or vice versa, before they would ever perform surgery on you. That's how it used to have, it used to be not so long ago. Now it's a totally different story. We're just, it's like going to the grocery store and exchanging apples for, you know, grapefruits. Yeah, yeah, of course. And you would think that doctors who pledge to do no harm to their patients that they would actively be seeking ways to find different solutions that don't include maiming a person's body. I mean, I've seen, you know, some of the stories of the detransitioners and I just love how candid so many of them are. And I, it's heartbreaking, but it's also so insightful. And one of, one of the women, a mom who transitioned when she was a teenager, got a double mastectomy,

now has a child. And she talked about not being able to breastfeed her child that she wants to be able to breastfeed. And a lot of these people also who retransition to their biological sex, you know, as, as young people, but spent their teenage years trying to be the other sex. They also feel like they can't relate to other women or other people, their sex of their sex, because they didn't go through the same things that young women do. They didn't have the same experiences. And so it's a whole other level of dysphoria and dysmorphia that we are throwing people in without really any caution whatsoever in any thought. So let me ask you this. As somebody,

I do think people who are religious, who are religious, who are theological, who are biblical, they tend to have big, bigger picture views of the world. And I think it's really helpful. I like listening to people like you, because I just, I feel like there's a whole host of data to mine and a whole way of looking at the world that I think people like me who are less religious sometimes miss. Again, I sort of have the Catholic imprint on me and I believe in God and I believe in Jesus and, you know, I believe in a higher power in heaven and all that, but I don't have the biblical knowledge. Where do you see this going, Allie Beth, right? Like what, are we just in this huge crisis phase as a society right now

that we're going to emerge from and say, oh my gosh, we were nuts for that period. You know, for a good 10 years there, we lost our ever loving minds. Or, you know, you're hearing stories about secession, fracture, Ayn Rand type talk about, you know, the different factions of society, the ones that that work and the ones that don't like, I actually don't know the answer to that at the moment. Yeah. And I don't think that any of us know exactly what the trajectory is. I think we can look at history and kind of make our best guesses. One thing that does encourage me, and it maybe sounds weird to say that it encourages me is that there have been very, very, very dark periods, not just world history, but American history and Christians, evangelical

Christians in particular, depending on your eschatology, which means depending on what you think about the end times when this is all going to come to an end. Some people, I would say most evangelical Christians believe that the world is going to get worse and worse and worse until Jesus comes back. But some people don't believe that. I think that throughout history, what we actually see is that there are times that looked apocalyptic. There are times that looked like, okay, everything is going to hell in a handbasket. Everything is going wrong. It could possibly go wrong. We are completely inundated with degeneracy and immorality and rebellion to God and his order and morality. But, and I think that we're seeing that again now, but whether or not we're going to swing

back in the other direction, it's hard to say. I will say, I do think that a lot of this stuff that is trying to reach into the classroom and reach into parents' homes and to try to indoctrinate children with a lot of this, that might be the line for people. People might actually wake up and say, okay, I was just this tolerant, live and let live liberal, but this is too far because it's no longer live and let live when you're trying to teach my child to either live or think a certain way that I don't agree with. So can things swing back in another direction? Yes, I think so. Whether or not we're ever going to be this morally pristine nation, I'm not sure. And I don't think we ever have been, by the way. In every season of American history, there have been different kinds of

injustices. We're seeing a new kind of injustice today. I think the thing that makes it different than years past is, this might sound weirdly specific, but the rise of China and the rise of other hostile actors, and also the rise in technology and the surveillance state that I do think makes it a little bit scarier than years past. The manipulation of our kids on TikTok right now, it's happening right now. You surrender your kid and say, go ahead on TikTok. You have no idea how their thoughts about America and systemic racism and what have you are being manipulated by a country that hates us. Yeah. Yeah. And what I do know, so I don't know where it's all going to go. It could all

come to a head and be, you know, awful and terrible. And we really do get the communist future that I think some people on the left are hoping for. Maybe not. Maybe enough people will stand up and we're just going to say, you know what? Enough with denying reality in all of these different realms. We're just not doing it. We're not going down that path. The path to unity, however, on the left and the right, I'm not sure.

What I do know from a Christian perspective, you asked the big picture. Well, the Christian belief is that whether or not the world is getting worse and worse or whether or not it's going to get worse and then better, we do believe that Jesus is coming back. And the reason that we believe that injustice happens today, oppression happens today, evil is allowed to happen today. A lot of people use those as reasons not to believe in God, but we actually believe in God's patience that one day he's coming back and he is going to set all things right, that he is going to get rid of evil. He's going to get rid of sin. He is going to defeat Satan forever. And he will for all of eternity rule in perfect peace and perfect justice. And so while we do believe

in trying to make the world better today, we also know that it's never going to be perfect until he comes back. And so that's the hope that we have. Ultimately, I obviously believe that we should care about culture and politics today. I say that we should care about politics because politics affects policy and policy affects people. And we're called to care about people. But I don't put my hope in a political party. I don't put my hope in everything becoming perfect today. I think that godless people are going to be godless.

And godlessness, in my opinion, leads to insanity. It leads to stupidity. And so, yeah, that could continue to be our future. And ultimately, my hope is in that Christ is going to make all things right and truth ultimately will prevail. I'm thinking about, I went to Christian Bible camp when I was young. I'll confess to you the truth, which is we were trying to just go to horseback riding camp, my best friend and I, she was a rebel rouser and somehow it wound up being a Christian Bible camp. And we knew this when we got there and they said, do you have your Bibles? And we were like, what? But we were both little, you know, budding Catholics who were in CCD

together, learning all that. So we just weren't ready for next level Christianity, but it was an eye-opener. You know, we really did see folks around us who truly believed in. And I remember one of my biggest takeaways from the, from the camp was this song. You tell me, do you know this song? I am a C I am. Oh yeah. I am a C I am a C I am. Yes. You must've gone to Protestant camp. Is that what, really? It sounds like a Protestant Bible camp. I don't know. Maybe Catholics have the same kind of Bible camps. No, it wasn't Catholic.

Yeah, no, no, exactly. It was like evangelical. Okay, that's what I was. I-O-C-H-R-S-D-M-A-H-A-R-T. Yes, and we did go up to the top of the mountain and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. And I was like, did I just convert? Did I, I'm not sure.

Like, I'm not sure I'm Catholic still. Yeah, well well maybe that experience you like you said you have remembered a lot of theological stuff it seems like from growing up that kind of stuck into your head from time to time so maybe there's a purpose for that well and you know and somebody else is pointing this out to me i think it was father jonathan who was on my show my my my friend and now he's formerly father Jonathan. He left the priesthood, but he made a good point. I have to say, he's like, Meg, you know, it's great that you have this imprint, but you have three kids and like, you've got to get them into church.

Otherwise they're not going to have the imprint. And he's right. Gosh, as usual, my priest was right. And I do like, I'm just listening to you and what a strong role faith is playing in your life. It's a good reminder. Even if you're tired, you got other things you want to do on a Sunday, it's like, I've got to get them in there. I want them to have this connection to something bigger and larger than themselves for all sorts of reasons. Right. And there's no such thing as a neutral worldview. Everyone is indoctrinating your kids, your parents, parents indoctrinate their kids, educators indoctrinate their kids. And there's no such thing as neutrality, a worldview is going to come from somewhere. And I think we've already seen what the postmodern worldview is rejecting

biological reality, rejecting history, if you're talking about the 1619 Project, rejecting what we know about morality, what is right and what is wrong, and having that basis, that foundation of knowing why we believe what we believe is so important. And setting those parameters and giving that context to our kids, I think, is the most loving thing that we can do. The kind of parents who say, I'm just going to let my kids figure out whatever they want to figure out. Well, that goes back to what we were saying about love and discipline and setting boundaries for the people that we love. Kids are crying out for some kind of guidance. That's exactly why we see so many aimless teenagers going on TikTok and looking for answers to life's problems. We don't want our kids to have a TikTok theology. We don't want our kids to have TikTok worldview. We want to be the ones to, to guide them and know we can't control everything

they do. We don't want to control everything they do, but we want to give them the best tools they can. Politically. I want my kids to understand both arguments and make their own decisions. Right. But more morally, that's my job. You know, that's Doug and I are the ones who are supposed to help make sure they get the proper moral imprint. And when a kid emerges without that, that's the parents failing. That is the parents failing. And that's where that's sort of where I see religion is coming in like that. That's where I got my moral compass. You know, my parents brought me to church. My parents talked about religion. My parents helped me understand what was expected of me as a human, as a child of God, as a Catholic, as a child of theirs, right? Like all of that, it stays with you. If you get it in and you get it in early, even if you go on to become, you know, you get a job in journalism, which is completely soulless or a lawyer, which is also a soulless job and live in very liberal cities,

which I have for most of my adult life. It's in there. And, uh, it's, it's important. Anyway, you've inspired me. And as you have the last time that we, that we met and talked together when I was on your show, which I recommend to everybody, cause you're, you're really smart and you've got a lot, you got a lot more wisdom than most people have at 29. So good luck. Good luck with motherhood the second time around. You're going to be even more tired. Yes, yes, I experienced that. But it's worth it.

It's worth it. In this world that says just serve yourself, I think the sacrifice that comes with motherhood is better than I ever could have imagined. So I'm very thankful for it. Couldn't agree more. Amen. And I hope you have 10 more. Me too. See you soon.

Thanks. Don't miss tomorrow's show. We have got newly declared gubernatorial candidate in California, Larry Elder. Larry has thrown his hat in the gubernatorial challenge to Governor Gavin Newsom on this recall, which is really exciting. I can't wait to talk to him about it. That's tomorrow. Don't miss it. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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