The Megyn Kelly Show - Arrested For Posts, Epstein Victims Speak, and Sick Trump Health Reactions, with Batya Ungar-Sargon and Greg Lukianoff

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

Megyn Kelly is joined by Greg Lukianoff, author of "The War on Words," to discuss comedian Graham Linehan’s social media posts that led to his arrest in the UK, the way speech is being criminalized as "dangerous" throughout Europe, why Americans should worry about this too, why he opposes Secretary of State Rubio's actions to deport visa holders over their speech on Hamas, what could happen if a "President AOC" gets into office, Malcolm Gladwell admitting he was afraid to say the truth regarding "transgender" athletes back in 2022, the broader implications for free speech and public discourse, and more. Then Batya Ungar-Sargon, host of "Batya" on NewsNation, joins to discuss alleged Jeffrey Epstein victims speaking out in DC, their plans to release their own "list," Trump calling the "Epstein files" a “Democrat hoax," sick reactions from the left and media to speculation about President Trump’s health and absence, the way he addressed the rumors from the Oval Office this week, a new WSJ poll showing Americans don't believe the American Dream is attainable, the left alienating young people who want to own a home, Lisa Cook’s alleged mortgage fraud, rising crime in Chicago, the governor’s refusal to accept assistance and how that limits Trump’s ability to step in, Trump’s plan to move to New Orleans to help that city instead, and more. Lukianoff- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noWh8SSeRCoBatya: https://www.amazon.com/Second-Class-Betrayed-Americas-Working/dp/1641773618 Birch Gold: Text MK to 989898 and get your free info kit on goldRiverbend Ranch: Visit https://riverbendranch.com/ | Use promo code MEGYN for $20 off your first order.Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/MEGYNto speak with a strategist for FREE todayAll Family Pharmacy: Order now at https://allfamilypharmacy.com/MEGYN and save 10% with code MEGYN10  Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show. We have alleged Jeffrey Epstein victims speaking out in D.C. this morning, along with a bipartisan group of legislators, including Rokana and MTG. This comes as the House Oversight Committee releases tens of thousands of documents related. to the case, but is there anything new in these documents that they receive from the DOJ? Let me just start by saying this. I've got my doubts. This is the House Oversight Committee, subpoenaing the DOJ, and neither of these groups has any motivation, any real interest in doing anything to upset Donald Trump, who wants this thing over. So to me, I've got to be honest, it seems like fig leafamania by everyone other than that massy rocana effort, which is a separate thing.

So you've got the House Oversay committee subpoenaing the DOJ for all of its Epstein documents, and they do a 30,000 document dump, which so far looks like there's some stuff that may be mildly interesting, but people who know the case really well are saying this is all old, which seems like what the DOJ would do, because they're not going to give anything to House oversight that they actually think is probative since they've already told us that allegedly there isn't anything and they're not interested in producing anything. So let me tell you, as a lawyer involved in many litigations over the course of my professional life, it's easy to generate thousands of documents that are technically responsive to a subpoena while withholding the ones you don't want

to produce, especially when it's a friendly, it's a Republican-controlled committee. They're not actually going to go after Bondi or Team Trump for not giving the goods. So I have very low expectations on this. A couple of things have come out. They were like, oh, that's kind of interesting, but mild. Mild. I don't have high hopes. But then you got this separate effort by Massey, who has become a Trump antagonist, and Rokana, who's a Dem, who are trying to actually get, you know, real documents, and MTG, who she loves Trump, but she's not a sycophant. As you know, you saw her here. She'll criticize the administration, trying to actually speak with Epstein victims and what they're saying now this morning

at a presser that Massey held. So that lane is kind of interesting to me, and we'll continue to watch both and bring you whatever news is coming, but just setting realistic expectations. All right, but we are going to begin today with a case from across the pond that shows just how dangerous the battle over free speech has become. And by the way, you do need to pay attention to what's happening in the UK. because it does affect Americans now, and I'll explain in a minute how. All right, over in the UK, comedy writer.

I mean, this guy's like the god of comedy writers over there. He's written some of, if not their most popular comedy shows in the UK. His name is Graham Linehan. And he was arrested at Heathrow Airport, met by five, count him five armed officers. And as you may know in the UK, mostly, officers are not armed with firearms. But these guys were. Why? Because they had to take down this comedian who sent out three mean tweets. I am not kidding. Three mean tweets got him arrested by five armed guards before he barely stepped onto British ground, getting off of the plane from America.

He's, I actually don't know his citizenship. I think he's a British citizen, but he was over here. and he had to go back there because he was already on trial for allegedly taking the phone of this tranny activist who was harassing women speaking up for their own rights. He allegedly took the phone. So he got, he got criminally charged. The tranny didn't get charged with criminal harassment, just he did. And he had to go back over there to stand trial. When his plane landed and he got off the plane, he got arrested for three mean

tweets. In the wake of his arrest, he was slapped with what he calls a legal gag order in the UK, a country where critics say sweeping speech laws punish everything from online jokes to private prayer. That gag order said he wasn't even allowed to speak about the charges slapped against him. Can you believe this? Now, he has a court date later this week, and after that court date, his first on-camera interview will be right here with the Megan Kelly Show, and we look forward to bringing that to you exclusively. So I want to talk about this case, and then I want to talk about what's happening, not just in the UK, but in the European Union, because they've just passed this sweeping

law that's going to affect all of our social media companies and all of us. Have you been noticing more and more when you're on your iPhone, you have to accept cookies or deny cookies, that's in large part due to what they're doing in the EU. What they do online with their sweeping anti-free speech laws will affect your life. So listen up because as goes the life of, you know, the Graham Linnemen's in the world, so goes your life potentially. And we need to, sorry, Linnehan, need to pay attention. All right.

Joining me now to talk more about it is Greg Lukiaenov. He's president and CEO of Fire, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression. He's also the co-author of The New Book, War on Words, 10 arguments against free speech and why they fail. When inflation jumps, when you hear the national debt is over $37 trillion. Do you ever think maybe now would be a good time to buy some gold? Well, you'd be right. Whether as a hedge against inflation, peace of mind during global instability, or just for sensible diversification, Birch Gold Group believes every American should own a physical gold.

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$10,000 when you buy before September 30th. Text MK to the number 9-8-9-8-98 to claim your eligibility and get your free info kit. Greg, welcome back. Great to have you. Great to see you again, Megan. This is getting crazy. I realize there's no First Amendment in the UK, but, you know, we're kind of of them. We've got like a toe still that connects us very much to them. We're also supposed to be part of the modern West and have like shared values. And literally all Graham did was send out three tweets. I'm going to tell you what they are. You probably already know, but we'll bring this audience up to speed that just got him arrested for offensive speech in the UK. One, April 19th, showed a picture of a trans rights rally and captioned it

a photo you can smell. Two, April 19th, in a reply to the picture and a follow-up, he writes, I hate them, misogynists and homophobes, F them. And number three, on April 20th, he writes, If a trans-identified male is in a female-only space, he is committing a violent, abusive act. Make a scene, call the cops, and if all else fails, punch him in the balls.

That's it. And this in the UK can get you arrested with five-armed guards. And God only knows what the potential punishment will be. If Graham does not prevail in this case, your thoughts on it all, Greg. Well, I think I'm going to say something that might surprise you. Actually, it's good that they arrested him because it's making people aware of how insane the law has gotten in the UK. And honestly, the rest of the, you know, so-called free world at this point. America at this point is truly alone in protecting free speech as passionately as we do.

And thank goodness we have the First Amendment because, of course, the unfree world is a nightmare. You know, they've been using AI in Iran and China to bring a whole new level of dystopia. But in the European Union, in the U.K., in Canada, in Australia, the situation for free speech is getting more and more desperate. I mean, just to put this in perspective, about 2,000 people were arrested per year in the first Red Scare, which was 1919 and 1920. 12,000 people approximately have been arrested this year in the UK alone, and they're half our population at the time of the Red Scare. So we're talking about a genuine free speech crisis that when you go to Britain still, and my mom's British, so this was literally very close to home. They used to laugh at us about our political correctness in the United States. But now they'll be like, oh, well, yeah, it was rude.

It's like, are you insane? And the funny thing is they're doing this to rout out fascism, you know, in their own minds. It's kind of like, hmm. Yeah, they're dangerous. They're genuinely dangerous. Like, I'm not sure where this goes, how much more radical they can get. They're arresting people who are silently press. outside of abortion clinics, they're really hot on the trans issue. You cannot say anything

about trans activism, trans activists, the gender issue. You have to be completely woke and politically correct on it. Or you can wind up like Graham. Graham, I mean, this is a celebrity. He is a celebrity over there who is very well known for these hits. And of course, our comics, he's a comedy writer, tend to be, in many cases, amongst the greatest geniuses. really they see the scenes in the story there are most important cultural commentators they come to these issues before many of us do and they're they're important for that reason alone he actually gave an interview to jordan peterson a year ago or so it was december 2024 and spoke about being canceled because he's been very hot on the trans issue here's a bit of that in sot one i always think of that

uh mohammed ali line where you said you know the the the vietnamese never called me no inward. And I feel the same way about the left. You know, the right never called me a bigot. And they called me a bigot for basic things like saying, hey, you shouldn't be cutting the breasts off little girls. You shouldn't be...

There's one non-hate crime incident. We can keep piling them up. There shouldn't be men in women's prisons. It's actually against a Geneva convention to put men in women's prison. Okay, so he's speaking complete sense, Greg. Complete sense. It's not even like, here

in America, we always talk about how you have to find the least popular speech, the most provocative and unpopular. And that's the stuff we need to zero in on protecting. What he's saying over there is actually factual statements. Now, the one statement about kick him in the balls, okay, that's a little bit more provocative than his other statements. But, I mean, that wouldn't even come close to being censorable speech here in America. No. That's nowhere near the line when it comes to First Amendment. I mean, basically, the argument is that it's incitement, you know, and that's literally, like, when you're standing outside the mayor's office with a torch-wielding mob of being like, let's go burn down the mayor's office. Like the idea of, like, theoretically in this circumstance, if there's a man in a woman's dressing room, that you should, if all else fails, punch him in the balls, is rightfully protected in the United States. And this has been going on. I mean, the scale of this is just absolutely astounding. And it's been hard to get people to really. pay attention to how bad it's gotten in the United States, or for that matter, sorry, not in the United States, in the U.K.

And we were done a real favor, actually, by 60 Minutes, because they did actually a piece on how bad it's gotten in Germany as well. We showed that. 60 Minutes loves it. Yeah. Oh, the host did seem to kind of be like, oh, this makes sense. And they show morning raids of these, you know, speakers. and they gave one example of, like, a German called a politician a penis, and that got him arrested.

It's like, okay, so you can't insult politicians anymore? And they actually said that that's even worse. That's a day ending in why in the United States of America. I mean, you know, everybody would be under arrest if you couldn't say negative insulting things. It's part of being a free person as you can pick on your politicians. Well, speaking of politicians in the UK, J.D. Vance went over there and spoke at the Munich Security Conference, in February and really was very frank with our European friends about where things are going there. And there was very negative leftist reaction at home to what he was saying. Like,

oh, how dare he lecture them? Who does he think he is? He was spot on. And I'm going to show the soundbite, but I hope people will listen to this thinking about what just happened to Graham. And to many others, I'm going to get into what's happening beyond Graham. But watch this. The Scottish government began distributing letters to citizens. whose houses lay within so-called safe access zones, warning them that even private prayer within their own homes may amount to breaking the law. Naturally, the government urged readers

to report any fellow citizens suspected guilty of thought crime. In Britain and across Europe, free speech, I fear, is in retreat. I mean, to put it mildly, you've got Adam Smith-Connor. He's an army vet who is fined nearly $13,000 for silently praying near an abortion clinic over there. Lucy Connolly is one many have cited over there. She was sentenced to 31 months in prison for calling for deportations of illegal immigrants on X. It's getting genuinely scary.

And now you have Nigel Farage, who formed his own party over there, which is on the rise because of issues like this, who testified in front of the House, the U.S. House Judiciary Committee this morning. couple of hours ago in the wake of Graham Lineham's arrest and had the following warning sought for. He's not even a British citizen. He's an Irish citizen. This could happen to any American man or woman that goes to Heathrow. It is a potentially big threat to tech bosses to many, many others. This legislation we've got will damage trade between our countries, threaten free speech. I've come today as well to be a claxon to say to you, don't allow piece by piece this to happen here in America. And you would be doing us and yourselves and all freedom-loving people of favour if your politicians and your businesses said to the British government, you've

simply got this wrong. At what point did we become North Korea? Well, I think the Irish comedy writer, found that out two days ago at Heathrow Airport. Good for him. Agreed. Here's the, I think, what in part he was referring to. It goes beyond Graham, because you and I are swept up into this weird web of censorship that they're casting, not just in the UK, but in Europe, thanks to the EU Digital Services Act, which is this law that has been passed.

that could cripple free speech, not just over there, but over here, it governs all of our social media companies, which is now the new public square. And it, it basically bans speech that is offensive, not basically. I mean, it does. And what can, it's, it's relatively new in terms of taking effect. It was past a couple years ago, but in terms of when it took effect, it's relatively new. And it says that you can silence or censor voices that you find offensive. It gives super broad powers to the European Commission to regulate content deemed harmful, harmful. It took effect in 2024. And this is by using the biggest and most expansive definition of so-called hate speech, one can imagine. So Megan Kelly can get on X or Facebook and say there are only

two sexes, male and female, and a man cannot become a woman. And Elon Musk is fine with that as the owner of X, and Mark Zuckerberg at this point would allow that as the owner of Facebook. But they both operate in Europe, and this European commission can look at Megan Kelly's tweet and say, no, that's hate speech, and go to those platforms and insist that they shut down the tweet or even potentially take down the account. Greg. Yeah. And there is actually a lawsuit, I think that was launched last week with 4chan trying to defend findings against it under the DSA or actually the findings against it are in Britain. So one thing I wanted to tell your entire audience is that I would love to have a case that fire could bring that would defend American free speech rights and the rights of American companies from encroachment from European laws.

or laws from the UK, because this could sink our free speech here. Actually, you know, we just wrote a book on this called Authoritarians in the Academy. Sarah McLaughlin at Fire wrote it. And it's about how China and Qatar are actually using their power and influence to limit free speech on campuses in the United States. But what the European Union, you know, is doing and what the UK is doing, you know, could reach just as far. How? How is China using its influence to silence free speech on American University campuses? pressuring different administrations to punish Chinese national students who are critical of China to shut down events, to report, they report back situations where, you know, Chinese nationals are, you know, saying things that are critical of the crackdown in Hong Kong, for example, or for that matter, you know, when they try to have events that feature the Dalai Lama or express support for Tibet, they're figuring all sorts of ways to exert pressure on various campuses together.

get that punished or shut down. So it's basically what they're doing to the film industry here in America. Exactly what they're doing to the film industry. It's amazing. You know, it's like, this is the same reason why you don't let Pfizer advertise on your show. Because once they control your salary, they control your speech. And what's happening is we're so beholden to China and it's dollars or, you know, it's yen, whatever, that we bend the knee when they call us up and say, don't put that in your movie. We don't want to see that patch or that.

poster or that messaging, and Hollywood has bent the knee, and now you're saying this is happening when it comes to speech on university campuses. And instead of having a very strong instinct of saying, forgive me, but fuck off. This is the United States of America. We're doing it. We're going along with it. Yeah. No, and that's one of the reasons why I think we should all be concerned about this unreviewable power that the Secretary of State has to kick out anyone who, in the sole opinion of the Secretary of State is adverse to foreign policy. Let's talk about that, because I've defended that. I've defended that, and I know we're in disagreement a bit on this, but I really want to hear your argument.

Well, let's take the Graham-Lenahan case. You know, Graham Linnahan, you know, like he said some anti-trans activist things, and you can imagine under a future AOC, you know, administration, there would be people in her administration. It's like, we should return this person to be prosecuted in the U.K. for his transphobic things that he said. And under the laws it currently stands, the Secretary of State under that administration could kick that person out of the country without any review whatsoever. It's the reason why Trump's own sister, when asked to review that portion of regulations that gives that power to Secretary of State, said it was unconstitutionally vague and broad. So, but, I mean, I guess I don't totally understand the analogy because Marco Rubio is looking at, these Hamas-loving college campus students saying,

when you say things like globalize the intifada, that is not consistent with the foreign policy of the United States, which recognizes Hamas as a terrorist group. And you're only here on a visitor's pass. And so it's like having somebody over for dinner. You came over, you got drunk, you barfed on my brand-new living-room carpet. So you're out. Your visitor's pass is revoked.

Like, why is that not okay when they're just a lot? here as visitors, and he should be wary of visitors coming over here and antagonizing Americans and others with speech that goes against what we've stated as a policy that we support, which is keeping terrorists out and opposing terrorism. But when it comes, it's the exact same principle of the Grand Linehan case. Essentially, he came to the United States because he was afraid he was going to get arrested in the UK for his transcritical speech, and future administrations are prime. probably, you know, going to say things like it is the policy of this administration that we

support trans rights and- Well, that's a domestic policy. But don't you think foreign policy is something that's uniquely within the control of the executive branch? But once you actually have a policy that's as vague and broad as one the Secretary of State has, its potential for abuse is ripe. And once again, like so much so that the one person who's reviewed it, Trump's own sister, thought it went too far. So I'm saying that this is not a power you want to hand off to anybody else.

And when it comes to the way it's actually been used, I mean, even Joe Rogan noticed this case. The Ramesa Oz Turk case, this is the, she's a Muslim student, she was here on her student visa. She wrote an op-ed saying the Tuff should divest from Israel, something I disagree with, to be clear. But it wasn't crazy. It wasn't bomb-throwing. And she was basically stuffed into a van by immigration people, like flown to Louisiana and held more or less in jail for weeks. until a judge said, no, no, no, no. And since you're a fellow lawyer, Megan, there is a Supreme Court case on the books called Bridges v. Wixen that, of course, you can consider things like opinion and whether or not someone's suitable to get a visa in the first place. But once they're here, people who are here on a visa are supposed to have rights that are similar to ours under the First Amendment, under this 1945 case called Bridges v. Wixen.

Mm-hmm. I guess I just think when it comes to foreign policy and you're in the midst of supporting an ally who themselves are in the midst of a war, it does seem like the Secretary of State should have some power to say, yay or nay, on these visas that have been granted. And if it's based on ideology, I guess I'm fine with that. I have to see it as a much bigger deal. If you go after an American citizen, a American citizen tomorrow comes out and says, I support Hamas. I actually think, Mas is right. Israel sucks. That's fair game. You can say that, even if it's a terrorist organization. Marco Rubio cannot throw you out. He cannot do anything to you. It's just you're on much shakier ground when you really don't have a right to be here in the first place. Well, I think of Jordan Peterson, you know, like who came to the U.S. partially because of his horrible treatment on this very same issue, by the way, in Canada. And the idea that we could just kick him out at any time, even though he's on a visa. of speech that any other American could actually say doesn't sit well with your civil libertarian.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Again, it's only with respect to foreign policy speech that goes against the foreign policy of the administration. So it's not some blanket. You can throw anybody out for any speech they make. It's a limited provision. And it isn't clear whether it's going to be upheld. I mean, it's been challenged.

It's working its way through the system on whether that permission slip to the Secretary of State is consistent with our first Amendment and a lawyer smarter than yours truly will ultimately have to say on that, specifically nine of them sitting in black robes, though I take it back because not each one of them is smarter than yours truly. A couple of them definitely are, though. Okay, well, I'm horrified by this Graham case. I can't wait to talk to him about it. And I, like, I'm still kind of shocked that it's even happening. I want to talk to you about, though, about that, the trans thing, because this has become, you know, when we start to bully and self-censor ourselves, the outside censors have really gotten it right.

They've done their job. You know, they really won. And there was an extraordinary admission by Malcolm Gladwell, famed author. He's written so many great books. He's been on this show before. I like Malcolm. He definitely struck me as a bit woke when he came on the show in 2022. And I'm not.

One of the things I hate about the woke is how censorious they are. And he had, like, at the time he was, like, sponsoring a podcast by Ibram X. Kendi, which I was like, come, why? What? He's too smart for this. And he was also saying some strange stuff in the gender lane, you know, very open-minded. And this is 2022. Look, by this point, we understood that boys should not be in girls' sports. But Malcolm was a little later to come along. But he has come along to his credit. In any event, he hosted, he moderated a panel with a bunch of people who are, active on the trans issue in March of 2022, and it was over Leah Thomas, among other cases. It was at MIT. And the people who are on his panel included Russ Tucker. And our audience may remember Russ Tucker. He hosts this sports podcast, the real science of sport. And he came on to talk to us about Iman Khalif over the summer of 2024. And was very fact-based, real no nonsense, and laid it all out that, you know, Amman Khalif likely has. male testicles and undescended and all the stuff like this guy knows what he's talking about he's a

fact-based guy then there's joanna harper who's a more of a trans activist um she's joanna is a joanna has been on this program as well um and then a third panelist so malcolm moderates the panel and here's a moment that happened on the panel this is joanna harper in seven c say that if we let trans women compete in women's sport, then we have to let them win, not win disproportionately, but win, at least some of the time. Okay, so Joanna's saying we have to let trans athletes win. We must. If they're going to participate in the women's sports, we have to let them win. And now Malcolm was there, and he just gave an interview to Ross Tucker, that same guy I just mentioned, and he talks about

that moment with the benefit of hindsight in SOT 7B. And at one point they turned to you, Ross, and they said, Ross, you have to let us win. And it was at that moment that I realized this position has gone, this argument has gone to the furthest extreme. What the trans movement is not asking for, they're not asking for, you know, a place at the table. They're not asking for to be treated with respect and dignity. What they're asking is for no one to question the considerable physical physiological advantage they bring to the sport. And no one to question, if they're going to win these races by five seconds, suck it up.

Very good point and very true. And here's what brings me to you on it, Greg. You can comment on that too. But now, here's Malcolm saying he's seen the error of his ways and how embarrassed he is about the way he moderated that panel just three years ago. SOT 7. If we did a replay of that exact panel at the Sloan conference this coming March, it runs in exactly the opposite direction. And it would be, I suspect, near unanimity in the room that trans athletes have no place in the female category. I don't think there's any question. I just think it was a strange, I mean, I felt, I mean, I was, the reason I'm ashamed of my performance of that panel, because I share your position 100%, and I was count.

I was cowed. An extraordinary mission, good for him for making it. Glad he's no longer feeling that way. But that's what happens when the bullies get in your head, and it's one of main goals of, yes, the woke and certainly the transgender movement activists. Your thoughts on it, Greg? Yeah, I mean, we all saw it happen. And the intensity with which, over the course of about 10 years, we went from, well, no, of course, biological men and women are different. And also, like, in First Amendment circles, how quickly people started making the argument that, yes, it could be potentially harassment if you don't call someone by their chosen pronoun or if even there was a law in Colorado that we opposed, for example, that was saying that you could potentially have your kids taken away if you don't use their new chosen name.

And I'm like, so what you're telling me here is you're saying that someone could lose their kids if they call them their legal name. And there was so much pressure around this issue. And I'm honestly, to this day, still kind of embarrassed on behalf of a lot of First Amendment activists who actually during this time were more or less saying it's like, well, yeah, no. I mean, like not calling someone who is biologically male her could actually by itself be harassment. You know, fire was very clear. That can never be harassment by itself. And I feel like, but I feel like what people were just afraid to admit was that they were, and it's good Malcolm put it this way, is people were just terrified of the trans rights activists, but then started rationalizing why they agreed with them and why they weren't actually being cowed. And I think we're waking up from this to a degree.

But what we're seeing in England, you know, with the Graham-Lenhan case, to bring it back to that again, you know, is the fact that this is far from. over. So what is your advice, as somebody who's spent the vast majority of your adult life fighting for free speech rights on college campuses and other campuses for students who get chastised and punished by these university professors, virtually all of whom are radical leftists who don't want to hear conservative thought or just the questioning of their liberal orthodoxy, what is your advice for young conservatives going off to college now and feeling a little more empowered, certainly gravitating a bit more to the Trump movement, the MAGA movement, and not being woke, rejecting wokeism wholesale, but still under the same pressure by those in charge

to say the right thing on the exam, to speak the right way in class, to have the proper opinions in mixed company. Oh, Megan, I could do like a couple days on what my advice would be here. But the most basic part of it is if someone's saying that you have to say something that you do not believe is true, that you have to call someone by a name that you don't believe that is theirs or by a pronoun that they don't believe that actually applies to them, that's compelled speech. Compelled speech is worse than telling someone that what they can't say.

It's telling someone what they must say. That's totalitarian. And if that case comes up, if you have actually that situation, contact fire because there's a long string of cases that indicate, you know, compelled speech is the heart of darkness. And you have rights under those circumstances. How about just the pronoun game in general? Because it's very annoying. I'll tell you what, this is the first week of school where we go. And we intentionally chose non-woke schools.

and our son's school is definitely non-woke and very reasonable. They're not, they're not maga. They're just non-woke. They're old school traditionalists the way, like, we used to be, where they keep this ideology out of the classroom. But our girls' school, our daughter's school, is woke, more woke than I'd like. And first day of school, all the forms are given to my daughter in her classes, asking her to say her pronouns.

It's an all-girls school. They all have the same damn pronouns. Stop asking this. I really wanted her to say, I'm not going to, I don't play that game. I'm not playing the pronoun game, but you couldn't because the forms were electronic and they had to click something in order to go to the next box and the forms were mandatory. It's infuriating, but it's another, that too is a forced, a compelled speech in its own way. Yeah.

Well, we've definitely seen cases where, like when it's in a live context where people have said, I'm not playing with this. I'm not going to give you my pronouns. And increasingly, I have seen a lot of examples where someone says, like, I'm not doing this. Like when they go around the class and ask for people trying to, I was like, no, I'm opting out, where that's become increasingly kind of acceptable, where people are like, yep. So there is some sanity returning to that.

But I do think that, you know, like this is an ideology. There's been a lot of celebration of like wokeness sort of like going away. I actually kind of like, my preferred term for wokenness is social justice fundamentalism. It's Tim Urban's term because I think it's kind of like, it's kind of like, it's just this radical kind of like belief that everybody must comply with my essentially secular religion. And there's this idea that it's gone away and it's like in some circles and it's like, no, it hasn't. It's still there. Nothing has happened that has massively changed this. And it's going to come back just as ferociously as the political correctness.

of the mid-1980s, early 1990s, came back with a vengeance around 2014. This is all going to come back unless people really stand up for it. And also, frankly, Megan, if people start deciding to, people start deciding to go to entirely indifferent institutions to figure out ways to do their K-through-PHD educations in different ways, favoring different ways that can't actually coerce ideology out of them, or won't want to at least. I really like that social justice fundamentalism. That's exactly what it is. Well, I'll be making a phone call to my daughter's school today. I just think this is insane. Everybody knows what the pronouns are of these girls. If you've got somebody who's confused, that's her issue. My daughter should not be forced to be questioning pronouns at all because some random unknown person in the school may or may not be having gender issues. I completely reject the entire discussion. It's offensive. It's objectionable. And it actually can cause harm. You do not inject confusion around gender where it doesn't exist in any event. Look, this is why you've

devoted your whole life to things like war on words, 10 arguments against free speech and why they fail. Your book, The War on Words is well worth your time. Greg will give you all the arguments you need to stand up for free speech in America, which is under threat, perhaps not quite as badly as it is in the UK and in the EU. But, hey, it could be a harbinger of things to come. Thanks for being here. Absolutely. Thanks, Megan. Take care.

All right, coming up next, Baja Unger Sargan. There's a lot going on. We'll get to with her. I've been talking a lot about River Bend Ranch lately because I love their stakes. River Bend Ranch has taken Black Angus beef to a whole new level. For the last 35 years, River Bend Ranch has been creating a very elite Angus herd by using ultrasound to select genetically superior cattle with a focus on flavor and tenderness. When you purchase from River Bend Ranch, you're not only,

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Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show. We've got a lot of other big news to get to today, including President Trump fighting crime and Democrat-run cities and fighting the Democratic politicians in the process. Updates in the Epstein story and more want to be joined now by Bata Ungersar Sargan, whose new show on News Nation is called

Bata, and it debuts, September 20th. Congrats, Bata, that's awesome. Thank you so much, Megan. I have to say, you have been such a role model for me for such a long time. I know so many journalists, men and women, who aspire to be more like you every single day. So thank you so much for that, for the role modeling, for the example you set, that you can be fiercely independent and never bought by anybody. And for everything you do for this country, thank you so much.

Megan and for having me. Oh, you're so sweet. You're so sweet. This is your moment. This is not my moment. And God bless the folks over at News Nation, because I know the folks who run that joint, they're very smart. They're very talented. And it surprises me not at all that they took a look at you and said, why aren't we hiring her? We'll get her over here. So, congrats to both of you. You both have a wonderful future ahead. And I'm sure the show will be a big success. Okay, let's talk about Epstein, because that's what's happening right now on Capitol Hill. As I explained to the audience at the top of the hour, you kind of have the House committee that subpoena oversight is subpoenaing DOJ, been underwhelmed with what they've produced and I expect to

remain underwhelmed. But then you have the Massey-Rocana tandem pairing where they're kind of going around everybody. They are trying to go through Congress to like mandate that virtually all documents, real documents be released. We'll see. We'll see how that goes. But they did have a presser this morning with a bunch of Epstein victims or women who say they were his victims. And I'll give you an example. Here's Lisa Phillips, who says she's committed to sort of working outside of this process and making sure the truth comes out. Her name is Lisa Phillips again, and it's thought 50.

Several of us, Fetteen survivors, have been discussing creating our own list of names. We know the names. Many of us were abused by them. Now, together as survivors, we will confidentially compile the names. We all know we're regularly in the Epstein world. And it will be done by survivors and for survivors. No one else is involved. Stay tuned for more details on that.

Because history is watching, and so are the women who will come after us. Thank you. Okay. So I say good for them. this is like the actual men who are in Epstein's circle. This is their worst nightmare because not all of them are pedophiles. Some of them just knew Epstein. I mean, I think Trump is in that category. I think Alan Dershowitz is in that category. Eventually, Steve Bannon was kind of in that category because he was advising Epstein to some extent after he got in trouble. I don't think these

people did anything wrong morally, you know, in terms of the girls. But, you know, if the list is now up to the survivors of like who was in his orbit a lot because the real officials won't tell us the names of those who have been actually accused of bad actions. You know, I'm not surprised the women are taking control of the situation. And I think this is going to be an even worse outcome for men who are potentially innocent of wrongdoing. But your thoughts on it. It's very interesting because one of the journalists asked them, well, can you give us a preview of some of the names on the list? And they, declined to do so because they're worried about getting sued, which I think is a good thing, right?

You don't want people randomly naming people who haven't done anything wrong. I will say I thought the most interesting thing that happened was that the lawyer seemed to dispel the myth that there was a big pedophile ring. And what I mean by that is he was very clear. And he said at one point to one of the, in the Q&A portion of the press conference, he said, let me be very clear. Jeffrey Epstein personally abused all of these women for his personal gratification. And then, and here's the key point, Megan. He said, when they reached a certain age, he then did farm some of them out to some of his friends, which to me, I don't know if you agree with me, but it does seem to suggest that he

was interested in them when they were underage. And then when they reached a certain age, one of them even said, when she got too old for him, he kind of kicked her out. And at that point, he would introduce them to his friends, which does seem to suggest that those friends are not actually implicated in pedophilia and possibly not even in anything criminal. Now, the Alan Dershowitz thing, I think, is very important because he's kind of, for me, the reason that I don't think that releasing a full list is a good idea. I think that he managed to, he managed to, to prove that he had been falsely accused.

But I have to say, I don't think his reputation ever recovered from having been associated with the scandal. And I personally think that's kind of an unfair thing to do to a lot of people. The other thing I will just say is, I do think that the women themselves are on kind of a different page than Rokana and Thomas Massey. They did not seem to want the same things to be released. I don't think they want everything released. They kept saying, is their footage of what happened to me in the hands of the government,

as if the last thing they want is for that to be, God forbid, released, right? So I do think they are being manipulated a little bit and used in this kind of gross titillating way to hurt Trump by people who see him as a political adversary. See, I think it's interesting what you said about Dershowitz. I disagree that his reputation didn't recover. I think what happened was Dershowitz never recovered from defending Trump in the first impeachment trial. That's what, quote, ruined his reputation. Not that you use that word, but with the left.

They looked at him very differently after that. They couldn't forgive him. His stories of being ignored and, you know, ostracized in Martha's Vineyard, go on. That's really what did it. It wasn't the Epstein thing. I think the left used that as an excuse to say, oh, it's that. I'm moral. I just haven't objected.

They didn't care about Epstein. The left couldn't give two shits about Epstein until Trump and Reefstein. recently, as I saw, it was like an Achilles heel potentially for Trump. So I don't think that these men will have trouble rehabilitating themselves. They will have to work for it, though. And the irony of what you said, though, is Alan Dershowitz does think that the name should be released. And he thinks men should have to defend themselves, same as he had to. He's like, you know what? It shouldn't be that hard. If he didn't do anything, it should be very easy to say, this is bullshit. I never went to the island or I went to the island and I never met with any women or girls or what have you. And the final point I was going to make on Epstein is I've told the audience this before. I do know somebody who's very close to the Epstein case. And this person has never misled me. Everything they've told me has been true as far as I can tell. And this person has been saying from the beginning that this person doesn't view Epstein as a pedophile,

but that he was into the, quote, barely legal type. That, you know, I don't know if that's true. I think if Epstein could have an interlude with a 14-year-old, he would have done it and he probably did do it. And that is a pedophile. It's not the same as a six-year-old. I accept that there's a distinction, you know, between those two, you know, morally, it's not, and I'm not justifying one, just to be clear. But I think that's probably right, because I think if you looked 14 or were 14, he would probably spend time with you. But if you looked 24 or were 24, he was over you. So anyway, the whole case is very complicated. And I'm interested in

in hearing these women's stories, as I have been in every woman's me-to story to see whether it's true, what it tells us about power, what it tells us about women. And all of it, I think, more sunlight, more and more and more sunlight. Trump feels differently. Here's what he said. Stop 54. So this is a Democrat hoax that never ends. You know, it reminds me a little of the Kennedy situation. We gave me everything over and over again, more and more and more. And nobody's ever satisfied. From what I understand, I could check.

But from what I understand, thousands of pages of documents have been given. But it's really a Democrat hoax because they're trying to get people to talk about something that's totally irrelevant to the success that we've had as a nation since I've been president. Even if you look at D.C. right now. Thoughts on that one? I got to say, Megan, I think we may not agree on this. but I just think Trump knows his base better than anybody. And when he keeps saying this is a hoax, he's not trying to convince them to drop something he thinks will hurt him.

I think he feels like no one cares about this. They care about really important things like kitchen table issues, what he's doing to get the country back on track, why inflation is not going down faster. Like people have real concerns, and they don't hold him personally responsible for this. I keep having, like, you know, totally normy people ask me, like, why do I keep hearing about this Epstein thing?

Like, they don't quite understand why it's such a big topic. So I'm kind of with the president on this. I don't think you get very far betting against Trump's understanding of where, like, the average American is at on an issue. And I think he's really clocked it that this is something that really preoccupies kind of elites on both sides, but like average Americans, I think just don't care that much about Jeffrey Epstein. What do you think? Well, I don't think it's elites on the right who are interested in Epstein. I think it's like, you know, Dan Bongino is not an elite. Now he's,

you know, part of government. But like when he was talking about this on his show, it wasn't because he had some privilege position, you know, that he was going to exploit. To the contrary, it's been people like cash, like Dan, podcasters on the right who have been saying, what the hell? We smell a rat. We think that these people in power protect their own and we're not being given the straight story. And we want the straight story

because we do believe that powerful elites get away with this shit when the rest of us don't. Like nobody else would and that we have a right to know what these elites were doing and why they're covering for each other because everybody within Epstein's circle

was pretty much well off, connected or rich, you know, in one way, shape, or form. So I just don't see this as an elites issue. Not this one. I have interest in this case from a legal standpoint. And I also think Trump's very first instinct, it'd be one thing if after, you know, all these months, Trump was like, get over it. We've done some releases. I'm sick of talking about this shit. But on day one, he was like, Jeffrey Epstein, who is interested in that story? Are we still talking about Jeffrey Epstein. And it was like, what? What are you saying? Your DOJ has just released this ridiculous two-page memo trying to declare it over. That's why we're talking about it. Why are you acting like

we just brought this up out of the blue? So that's really one of the things that set off the firestorm. Having said all that, it's not my top issue by far. It's not one of my top 50 issues. I just think the ongoing saga of it is interesting. So in any event, okay, we're going to pick it up on the Back end of this break. Quick break, more with Bata right after this. If you are stressed about back taxes, maybe you miss that April deadline or your books are a mess, don't wait. The IRS is cracking down. Penalties add up fast, 5% per month, up to 25% just for not filing. But there is help. Tax Network USA can take the burden off your shoulders and stop the spiral before it gets worse. They have helped thousands of Americans, whether

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a Sirius XM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, I'm back, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly. Megan Kelly. You can stream the Megan Kelly show on Series XM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the Serious XM app.

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on News Nation, it'll be easy for you to search and find because it's called Batya. Okay, so Trump's alive, thank God, alive and well, happy to report. We need to report it because for some reason, the loons on the left spent the entire weekend speculating that he might be dead based on what? Some errant report that he had suffered a heart attack or something? No, based on the fact that they hadn't actually seen him on camera for three days. Three days. He had a presser. He was out in the news. And then for three days, he wasn't actually on camera holding a press event. And they went into meltdown speculating that he might be dead. It led to people like George Conway of the Lincoln Project, formerly married to Kelly Ann Conway, saying things like, shh, don't jinx it. Like, if you talk about it, he might wind up alive. like the fervor for this man's death was in full flower over the weekend.

There's one great example we have here, which is Jen Saki. Now, she, of course, I'm sure hope Trump was dead. And she was one of the chief coveruppers, cover up for Joe Biden's mental infirmity. She worked for Joe Biden for the first half of his presidency and said nothing, nothing, about the fact that the auto pen was really president. And now she wants to be the authority on Trump's possible health problems, his status as an alive or a dead president, something she really should keep quiet about, given that she covered for Joe Biden. And here's what she said after Trump, oh, miraculously resurfaced, playing golf, very much alive. Here she is in SOT 26.

We went from Trump saying he hadn't heard about the rumors of his death. Trump saying he did hear about them from reports, really can't make this stuff up sometimes. And look, we may never know why Donald Trump suddenly spent a week hiding entirely from the American public, but you don't actually need baseless online conspiracies to explain why he might not want to show his face in public right now. A newly released Wall Street Journal poll finds that the percentage of Americans who think they have a good chance of improving their standard of living has fallen to just 25%. Okay. Baja, the man had a presser last Tuesday. He was seen on Sunday golfing.

She's very, very upset that she had to go, I guess, Wednesday through Saturday. So, okay, four days. Not seeing. We may never know. We, you know, we may never know why he spent a week hiding. The nerve. It's so insane because think of what they're telling on themselves that Trump is so active. so efficient, so accomplished, so constantly working for the American people in the public eye that if you go for 12 hours without seeing him, he might be dead, right? Like, just think about what that means for what they are actually admitting. They're just telling on themselves. Of course, the real reason they wish he was dead is because they cannot compete

against him. And the reason they can't compete against him is that despite the fact that the left portrays Donald Trump as some sort of 21st century George Wallace, what he actually is is a 21st century FDR. He stole all of the best parts of their agenda. He's anti-war. He's pro-worker and he's socially moderate. This is the nature of the American people. And they know that they have nothing to offer the American people to convince them to come back to the Democratic Party. And so they are left to simply wish that he dies. I mean, this is such a capitulation, Megan. This is what defeat looks like. Yes, it's so true. That's their only way out is to hope for an early demise, which is just so vile. You've got Tim Walsh. Okay, Jen Saki, she's a talking head.

whatever. But Tim Walsh was recently the vice presidential candidate on the Democratic ticket. Maybe you'd expect a little better, a little higher in terms of the rhetoric. You would be disappointed. Here is SOT 27. You get up in the morning and you doom scroll through things. And although I will say this, the last few days you woke up thinking there might be news, just saying, just saying, there will be news sometimes, just so you know, there will be news sometimes. just so you know, there will be news. Look at him. So chipper.

And don't worry, there will be news. In other words, Trump will die. Something to look forward to. The absolute nervous, especially with a president who was subjected to at least two assassination attempts and just dodged death in recent history to the great relief of every sane person in the nation. Now to be openly, you know, talking about what a delicious day it's going to be, it's totally irresponsible. I mean, it's godless is what it is. It is truly, truly godless. And I remember

the first time somebody, an over-credentialed, leftist elite, said to me, no, I wish that the shooter had succeeded. And I was just in disbelief. What has Donald Trump ever done to you? I mean, talk about the American dream. Jen Saki says Americans don't believe they have access to the American dream. That's thanks to Democrat policy. Amen. Like NAFTA, you know, like shipping five million really good middle class jobs overseas to build up China's middle class for some reason. Defunding vocational training. Thank you, President Obama, cutting off another avenue that working class Americans had to the American dream. Since the 70s, Democrats, Democrats built an economy that was an upward funnel of wealth from the pockets of working class Americans.

Americans into the top 10% the over-credentialed leftist progressive college elites. It was wage theft of their working-class neighbors and then now these same rich people who got rich off of the mass immigration that resulted in the downward mobility of working class Americans sit there saying, oh, wow, I wonder why working-class people don't think they have access to the American dream. Huh, do you think it's because you welcomed in millions and millions of illegal immigrants to replace them in the job market and drive down the wages and live off of the government and, you know, take their welfare.

Like, it's so obvious. It's so obvious. The nerve of her to use that Wall Street Journal poll, which I do want to discuss with you, but on the decrease in believing in the American dream that it's possible for me or my children that came out this week. And the nerve of somebody who not only is a Democrat, but worked for the previous Democrat administration, a guy who was vice president for eight years. years under Barack Obama. And Jen Saki's been tied to them all to be like, it's all Trump's fault.

It's the first seven, eight months of Trump that have led to these poll numbers. It's all on Donald Trump, not a Democrat creation at all. It's so frustrating. And you catch them in these catch-22s because on the one hand, they hate the tariffs. You know, the Democrats have secretly, quietly become the party of free trade. I don't know if you noticed because whatever Trump is, they have to be the opposite. So Trump said, you know, this trade's not fair to American workers. Suddenly they're rushing to defend trickle down economics and free trade. Okay, let's set that aside. So they hate the tariffs like all rich people, which is who the Democrats base is now, hate tariffs, right? They want free trade. They want cheap stuff. But then they'll say,

but Trump, everything he does is for the rich and for the elites. If that's true, why do the rich the elites hate him? If that's true, why did for every billionaire who backed Trump, Kamala Harris get two? Why did 95% of donations to politics coming out of the top three management consulting firms go to Kamala Harris and not Donald Trump? Why did Wall Street pick Kamala Harris and not Donald Trump? I mean, they know it's not true even as they say it. But, you know, data coming out of Treasury right now shows there's been a 1.4% wage increase for blue-collar workers, Just in the last eight months, thanks to Donald Trump's administration, Megan, 1.5 million illegals have exited the workforce and they have been replaced by 1.8 million American workers.

This is like an astonishing feat. And despite the fact that many of those Americans who replaced illegals are working in things like meatpacking, you haven't seen a huge increase in prices. There's a very small increase in prices in consumer prices. It's less than 1%. Despite the fact that we're replacing people who will work for $5 an hour with Americans who expect health care. I mean, what Donald Trump has done with our economy is staggering.

He's reduced the income gap, reduced the wage gap. He's literally bringing back the American. dream for the bottom. And all you hear when you turn on cable news is millionaires bemoaning the fact, you know, that this economy is bad for them. It's just the chutzpah here. The chutzpah and then blaming him for everything that went wrong under successive Democrat administrations. It's disgusting. The nerve. So I'll, I want to give a couple stats on that poll one second, but I do have to play the Trump response. He spoke with Peter Ducey at the White House about the alleged rumors. You know, the rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated. And Peter Ducey raised it with him

and sought 25. Here's how that went. How did you find out over the weekend that you were dead? Do you see that? No. People didn't see you for a couple days. One point three million user engagements as of Saturday morning about your demise. Really? I didn't see that. You know, I have heard. It's sort of crazy, but last week I did numerous news conferences, all successful. They went very well, like this is going very well. And then I didn't do any for two days, and they said, there must be something wrong with him. Biden wouldn't do him for months. You wouldn't see him.

And nobody ever said there was ever anything wrong with him, and we know he wasn't in the greatest of shape. No, I heard that. I get reports. I did numerous shows and also did a number of truths, long truth. so I think pretty poignant truce. No, I was very active over the weekend. I didn't hear that one. That's pretty serious.

Well, it's fake news. You know, it's just so, it's so fake. That's why the media has so little credibility. So now you had Jen Socking and others out there saying, I don't believe him that he didn't hear it. And, you know, as if Trump ever lies about that crap. Like Trump would be like, yeah, I heard it. It was ridiculous.

Screw them. He said, I heard reports that I wasn't doing well. allegedly, I wasn't doing too well. Meanwhile, you know, it was the other guy who wasn't doing well. I sent out all these truths, great truths, true truths. And he had done that throughout the days. And I misspoke before. He was seen playing golf on Saturday. So they got eyes on him on Tuesday at a robust presser. They got eyes on him on Saturday playing golf. But we had to go Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, which led to these lunatic conspiracy theorists on the left saying he died. And then when he says, no, I didn't hear.

hear that, but that's insane. I'm fine. It's fake news. Then they say, oh, he's lying. He did hear it. Like, what's wrong with them? These are the same people who look at our side and say we're the conspiracy theorists. We're the people who don't believe science and truth when it's staring us in the face. It's like, I know people have called them out for Russiagate and these other conspiracies, but truly, they cannot see the truth when it's before their eyes if it has anything to do with Donald Trump. yeah they're they're completely blinded by this and they think we're still in 2016 which actually is one of the president's superpowers they think they still matter and they don't matter Megan I mean you matter they don't matter but they haven't realized it yet and so they're sitting

there thinking that they're controlling the narrative and when Trump just looks at them and is like what are you even talking about and makes a mockery of it? It's so powerful. I mean, when you think about the extent to which he is operating on so many levels, whether it's domestic policy, the economy, immigration, foreign policy, navigating these conflicts, bringing, you know, an end to these conflicts to wars, but also, you know, navigating India, navigating China, navigating Russia, Ukraine, and to have the media. The Smithsonian. The Smithsonian. And there's literally, if you watch channels like CNN, they take the opposite side, literally will root for our enemies. I was watching the other day. I forget which liberal channel. And they were

trying to talk up China's military during the parade and say that China's military is stronger than ours. They were like, well, we don't have that and we don't have that. Are you freaking kidding me? Is that what it has come to? You are literally rooting. for China's military because you know that Trump is fighting China. It's so absurd. And thank God it's 2025 and the American people can see it for what it is. 100%, which is going to bring me in one second, by the way, it was CNN, to the blowing up of the drug cartel boat, which was amazing and suddenly has leftists supporting drug cartel boats

full of drugs on their way to the United States. But before we get to that, this Wall Street Journal poll is right up your alley. The headline was Americans lose faith that hard work leads to economic gains. It's a rather large survey, 1,500-plus adults, done in July, mid-July. The share of people who say they have a good chance of improving their own standard of living fell to 25%, just 25% of Americans believe they have a good chance of improving their standard of living. It's a record low in surveys dating back to 1987. 42% say they strongly or somewhat disagreed that they can improve it.

More than three quarters of those polled say they lack confidence that life for the next generation will be better than their own life. I mean, that's amazing. 78%, nearly 80% of Americans do not feel confident that life for our children's generation will be better than it was for us. that is just depressing. And then 70% of Americans believe that the American dream that if you work hard, you will get ahead, no longer holds true or never did. The highest level in nearly 15 years of surveys. My God, Bata, this is just so dark. I do think a lot of it comes down to homeownership and what you talked about in terms of middle class jobs. And I think AI too is potentially, in there because you hear about it a lot, how AI is going to be stealing all the jobs and our children aren't going to be able to find work at all, thanks to ramp an AI that has no master reeling it in. But what are your thoughts on these numbers? So I think for a long time, we saw the American dream become basically a privilege for the college educated. The working

class was really cut out of it thanks to democratic policies. What we're seeing, now is a lot of these over-credentialed college elites who would have 10 years ago been assured of making it into the top 10 percent, but now because of AI, are struggling because of a lot of the entry-level white-collar jobs are being destroyed by AI. And these people are unbelievably, unbelievably resentful. A lot of them have college debt. They were told they were very special. and at university and college they were taught to have contempt for people who don't have a college degree and now they come out of college and are being forced to work in industries that don't require that degree.

And so they're very resentful. This is the Mamdani base. This is what's fueling the rise of socialism because in their view, you know, the ideal situation would be that you have illegal immigrants doing all of the actual work. everybody else living on some sort of welfare and subsidized housing, you know, and then they can just kind of become podcasters, right? Like that's their, you know, fantasy of the way that the economy works. Heaven forbid. They think that labor, exactly, is beneath them. It's really about, you know, it's a hatred of America, but also a hatred of labor.

They've been taught to have immense contempt for work that requires labor. So those are the people, I think, who are losing trust that they're going to be better off than their parents. But I think a much bigger thing is exactly what you pointed out, Megan. It's home ownership. This has to become a major concern for the GOP going forward. This is what Gen Z is thinking about all the time. They're really not thinking as much about the cultural battles and the cultural issues.

Or Epstein. Or Epstein. They're thinking about why they can't afford a home, which brings me to this Lisa Cook. Oh, I'm in love with this story. Lied, as you've been covering it so well on her mortgage applications, bought three homes, said each was her primary residence. Okay, a lot of people do kind of fudge that exact point in mortgage applications, but what makes it utterly unforgivable in this case is that she is sitting on the board of the organization

that is preventing young people from being able to afford. forward a home because they are insisting at the Fed at keeping interest rates high. So while this woman gathered for herself acquired home after home after home with a little bit of, you know, trickery in her paperwork, she sits there and says, but not you. I'll have three homes and you will have none. And that is what makes this the epitome of the Democratic Party. Megan, I always say the Democratic Party is kind of like a plane. And the base are in first class. They're rich, okay? They're the top 10 percent. You know, we know that 65 percent, 70 percent of Americans who make over $500,000 a year now are Democrats. Okay. This is just like nine of the ten

richest counties in America Democrats. They're in first class, okay? And they're basically saying to the rest of the country, we'll pay for your tickets. You can sit and coach, you know, smush together like sardines, right in the back. You can ride for. for free. You know, we'll give you welfare. We'll give you a housing voucher. We'll give you SNAP benefits. But don't you dare think that you can touch that little screen and come and sit in first class or have anything to say about where this plane is going? Or use our bathroom. Or use our bathroom. We will decide all of that for you. That is the Democratic Party. And it is so epitomized by this Lisa Cook. Oh, my God. There was actually a great piece of tape that we had.

I wasn't sure if we'd get to it today, but might as well play it. But this reporter, he used to work for the New York Times. This guy actually went and tracked down one of her many houses. You recall there were three. There was one in Ann Arbor, Michigan, which is very confusing because I think Ann Arbor, she worked at Michigan State. And Arbor is where University of Michigan is. I think it's at least an hour away from Michigan State.

So I'm not sure why she was buying in Ann Arbor. She said it would be her primary residence. It does not look like it was. And two weeks later, she bought her residence in Atlanta, Georgia and said that was going to be her primary residence, but we don't think that was the case either. And then she also bought a house in Cambridge, Cambridge, Massachusetts, which she said was going to be a secondary residence, but it appears she rented it out as a rental property to bring in income. All of those were lies. You call it trickery. I say it's fraud. It's criminal fraud. Lisa, that's not legal. Okay? That's how it looks. to me, and this journalist Charlie LaDuff went to the Ann Arbor home, listed as her primary residence, and

guess who wasn't there? Lisa was not there. Watch what he found. The door's dirty. There's a key lockbox right there. There's a white man at the dining room table. It's weird. I don't think she's married.

Hello? How you doing? Okay, how are you? I'm good. My name's Charlie. I'm a reporter. This house is in the news. I was wondering if Lisa Cook lives here or do you rent?

We're just renting. I'm sorry? We're just renting. Okay, you just living here? Yeah. Okay, just renting? No comment. I'm sorry?

No comment. We have to talk to the over there. Okay, the owner. Do you have a contact? Number. So the person inside before he realizes says, quote, we're just renting, talk to the owner, then says no comment. Oh, my dear. In any event, he didn't do anything wrong, but she appears to have. So, I mean, and by the way, Bill Pulte, God bless Bill Pulte, he's the federal housing authority guy who keeps finding all these cases from Tish James to Adam Schiff to now Lisa Cook is holding a presser tomorrow morning. at 10. So on the show tomorrow, we will have everything covered for you. We will give for you all the latest on Lisa Cook and the others, and possibly there's a new person. We have no idea

why he's holding a presser, but we'll find out. But yeah, amazing. It doesn't even appear, it's a secondary residence. The thing she said was her primary. It appears it's a rental property like her place in Cambridge, which she said was a secondary. And you're right, as she sits there, and by the way, why did she feel the need to commit mortgage fraud if that's what she did? because the interest rates are too high, because she didn't think she wanted to pay or could pay, right? The high interest rates, those are too high. I've got to game the system. Then she gets in a position where she could do something about it and she pulls up the ladder behind her.

Like, F all of you, like you say, I'm in the first class, Gavin, don't touch my bathroom. So right, Megan, I hadn't even thought about that. She's my favorite character that is right now. By far. Okay, let's go back to the left being turned against. We don't like children with cancer, and we won't applaud them at the state of the union. We don't like criminals being arrested and locked up, so we will oppose federal troops in L.A. and Washington, D.C., and elsewhere. And we don't like crackdowns on Trenda-Iragua terrorist groups, drug cartel terrorist groups, bringing drugs into the United States. which are a poison that is killing our young people. It's the number one killer of young Americans, fentanyl, 100,000 plus dead the year before last and almost that last year and keep going back several years.

It's taking out millions of our young people. So Trump actually did something about it and declared these drug cartels, terrorist organizations, which changes the abilities that he has to deal with them as they try to bring that poison into the United States of America. Yesterday during the pressure that he held, he called attention to the fact that he dropped a bomb on one of these drug boats he says was bringing these drugs into the United States. And here is the video. Okay. So for listening audience, you see the boat. You see some people on the boat.

It's got three engines on the back. It's plowing through the waters. It's kind of a rough ride. Yours truly would be wearing my life jacket and have a life preserver in the moment because I'm not a good boater specifically when it's wavy. As it would turn out, my life jacket wouldn't do anything for me because I'd be blown up like these drug cartel members were. And I have zero sympathy for them, none whatsoever. And yet the left, I mean, they're upset. Okay. We're already hearing like what did he think he was doing? Why did he do it? Let me find it. I'm going to get you some examples. Here's the guy from Human Rights Watch, the annoying group that keeps scoring all of our corporations,

and if they're not woke, they get a bad grade from Human Rights Watch. Trump admits he ordered a summary execution, the crime of murder. Drug traffickers are not combatants who can be shot on site. They are criminal suspects who must be arrested and prosecuted. Here's the former Latin America advisor to Bernie Sanders. why didn't we just track and interdict the vessel in U.S. waters, arrest the crew, and seize the drugs, as the U.S. Coast Guard routinely does? I cannot imagine the timing of the Venezuela Boat Strike has anything to do with this and then posted a link to the Epstein story. What an idiot. Then there's this guy, Ed Krasenstein. These Krasenstein brothers are ridiculous personalities of the left online. All I can say is that I hope Trump is using actual evidence that these are actual drug traffickers and gang members in Venezuela, unlike what he did with the 280-plus immigrants whom he sent to the Seacot prison for being gang members

without any legitimate evidence in many cases. Taking human lives is a major thing. Does drug trafficking warrant death? Baja, I can't with these people. Okay, like, do they not understand what's actually happening in our country? To your point about the elites? Like, although drug, you know, fentanyl and all that, this, it's affecting everybody across classes. You know, the Susan Wojicki, the CEO of YouTube, which is owned by Google. I mean, this is a very rich company. Her son, unfortunately, died from a fentanyl-laced pill. I mean, it's happened across classes.

But these people don't seem to understand. And I pulled this sound by just to make the point, okay? Because that, like, does drug trafficking warrant death? Why didn't we just track and interdict the vessel? tell it to the parents who have lost their 19-year-olds to what they thought was a Xanax and turned out to be deadly fentanyl. Like, God forgive me, but the son of my dear friend Eric Bowling, Eric Chase. And that's exactly what happened to him.

He came on this show when we were just born, and we were still an audio-only podcast. So you won't see his face, but you'll hear him talking to me. This is not long after it happened. Okay, tell it to him. Watch. Come home from a restaurant. I'm sorry, love, I can feel it. That's right. So we get the call that he had taken what he felt was a

a Xanax that he bought on campus and it was laced with fentanyl that he didn't know. He passed. It's so awful, Baja. As a parent, I look at these people and I say, yes, the answer to your question, does drug trafficking warrant death? The answer is yes, yes, it does. The answer to why didn't we just track and interdict the vessel in U.S. waters is because we had the right to take them out. They were here to poison our children.

They were literally coming on shore to poison our children to death. I don't understand how the left doesn't see that. They don't care what happened to Eric's son. They don't care about this problem at all because they don't think it's going to affect them or they don't think it's a limousine liberal issue like paying off student loan debt. And the reason I know that is because they haven't done anything about it. And they're having anything other than the reaction of applause in response to Trump's move. Watching that boat blow up, I felt the way I feel.

when the same European leaders who mocked Donald Trump and mocked the United States and laughed at us come to the White House now on bended knee and beg him for things, it just made me feel so proud and safe to be an American. And it's amazing to me that the left is literally coming out and saying it, like, hands off our trend, Aragua, right? Yes, right. It wasn't actually a mistake with Kilmar Garcia Obrego, that he was a wife-beater, human trafficker, MS-13 member. Like, they didn't make a mistake.

No. If you are all of those things and you are Donald Trump's enemy, they will back you. You are their friend. You have the Democratic Party in your corner, you know. We are all Kilmar, as AOC put it, you know. the same people who were, you know, out in pussy hats and, you know, doing Me Too movement, you know, turning flirting in the office into like the civil rights issue of our time are now out here saying hands off our wife beater, right? And it's the same thing here. How dare you kill these gangbangers coming to murder American citizens? And with this kind of moral authority, they're high on their own supply. They think that they have the moral high ground here. It's so disgusting. And this truly is one of Donald Trump's geniuses. It's not just that he's actually making the country better and safer and more prosperous and lifting up the hardest working Americans into the American dream. It's that he manages to bring out the lowest, worst qualities

in his opponents. There is no depth to which they will not sink if they think they are opposing him and they just keep getting shown up again and again and again. There is not a single value the Democrats hold dear that they will not turn on on a dime if they think that they can use that to hurt Trump. And it's astonishing.

I can't imagine. I genuinely can't imagine why. watching a President Biden or President Wes Moore do this to a drug cartel, bringing drugs into our country, and having anything other than the reaction of, good for him, good for him. There are certain things where you don't get partisan. You just say, you know what, that's a defense of our borders and our children. And it's about time. We've been seating this battle for far too long.

And he's done everything he possibly can to crack down on these people from the tariffs, which even the New York Times admitted were changing the way these drug labs were popping up all over Mexico because he said to Claudia Shambam, you will crack down on these fentanyl labs or your terrace will go up. And guess what she started doing? Cracking down on the fentanyl labs. So they started to evaporate so that the New York Times had to acknowledge it. He's closed the border, which makes it a lot harder. It's not that they're giving up.

They're now trying to do the East Coast and the West Coast and in from Canada and so on. but he's fighting them everywhere. And now he's doing this, not because that one boat had all the drugs and all the fentanyl. You know, I mean, there's just endless supplies of it. But to send a message, deterrence, here he is explaining it. It's not 28A. On the boat, you had massive amounts of drugs. We have tapes of them speaking.

It was massive amounts of drugs coming into our country to kill a lot of people. And everybody fully understands that. In fact, you see it. You see the bags of drugs all over the bus. and they were hit, obviously, they won't be doing it again. And I think a lot of other people won't be doing it again when they watch that tape. They're going to say, let's not do this. We have to protect our country, and we're going to.

Venezuela has been a very bad actor. They've been, as you know, they've been sending millions of people into our country. Many of them, Trend de Aragua, some of the worst gangs, some of the worst people anywhere in the world in terms of gangs. And we had some in Washington, D.C., we took care of. them very quickly, but they're out of here. They've gone. But Venezuela's been very bad, both in terms of drugs and sending some of the worst criminals anywhere in the world into our country. Can I just say something about you that jumped out of me in that soundbite? He's sitting in the White House and you can see some of the, like, decoration on the fireplace

behind him is now gilded. You know, Trump's big on gilding. His entire penthouse is gilded. He's gilding the inside of the White House in many areas. It's getting very gold. And, okay, it's not my personal taste for the White House. I don't care. It's like this is, the left can't stand this, but to me, his need to gild the White House is born of his need to clean up Washington, D.C., and born of his need to close the border and to bomb the drug cartel. It's all part of the same package. You know, he wants a pristine, beautiful, safe White House, your house, my house, the houses on the south side of Chicago and South Washington, D.C., it's all born of the same thing. It's a perfectionism. It's a commitment to excellence. It's an

inability to settle for less, or this is good enough. And I always thought people criticize his narcissism. Everyone who runs for president has a touch of narcissism, some more than, you don't think Obama's a narcissist? Good lot. Good Lord. Bill Clinton, you don't think he's a narcissist, wake up. Trump's narcissism is such that you could always sense that if it could be unleashed on our behalf, it could really

make a difference. And that's what I see when I see the gilding and when I see Washington, D.C., now with almost no crime, and when I see that drug ship get blown out of the water. I think it's a little gaudy, but I love it. I mean, it's gaudy

and big and tasteless in the way that America is. We're not here. to imitate Europe. We're not here to try to pretend that we have class and that, you know, we want to be like you guys. No, we have our own thing going. We like gaudy stuff. We like big stuff. We like to make a statement. You know, we're not out here trying to like, you know, win magazine fashion awards or whatever, you know. I love it. We wear the flowered pants. We're the flowered shorts when we go over to Europe. Exactly. We're in our flip-flops. You know, we're not trying to blend in. Exactly.

So I think it's great. I totally agree with you. And I think, of course, the tariffs is really the proof in the pudding. The tariffs said to Wall Street, I don't work for you. I work for the American people. And that split screen with President Obama, who in the 2008 financial crisis, he came into office right after and gave $700 billion to the very crooks who resulted in 10 million Americans losing their home, including $30 billion. in bonuses. Imagine being an American who lost their home in 2008, saw the crooks who did that to you get $30 billion in bonuses. And now you're standing here and watching Donald Trump tell the entire global elite, screw you, I don't work for you. I work for that guy who lost his home. And I'm going to get a factory back into his town so that he can get a job again and buy a new home. that's what we're seeing here really like yeah of course he's trump right he's got a very healthy sense of himself but he's not just a president right now he's a leader he really does see what is good for this country as the only thing that matters and he has a theory of the case about what

went wrong and how to fix it and there's nothing he won't do in order to do that and i think for a lot of people even ones who don't agree with how he's doing it they see him willing to take on the elites in the media, in finance, the economists, the experts, and say, I don't care what you think and I don't care if you call me names. I am here to serve. And that idea of service is just so totally foreign to the left. There's this real kind of theater kid mentality to everything that's going on there. You know, even in the attempts to fight Trump from Newsom and Pritzker and whatever, again, it's like, Hands off our crime, right?

They just want the press conference. They don't actually have any policy to offer the American people to make their lives better. Hands off our crime, right. Exactly. We're watching this happen with Pritzker in Illinois, where Trump is saber-rattling about sending troops next saying, quote, it's going to happen. That'll be interesting. I mean, it's going to be a legal battle because he's very limited in what he can do outside of Washington, D.C. He got away with sending them to L.A., sort of.

He just got his hand slapped by a judge. The judge said you can leave the troops there, but they're more limited in what they can do. You can't use American troops for law enforcement. And so the judge found you did use them for some law enforcement, so you can't do that. But you can leave the mayor, and you can do all the things that you said on paper you were going to use them for, which is more in a supportive role of the ICE officers who you sent. So it was kind of a split-the-baby ruling for Trump out there. But you can't just send them in to random cities.

in support of just fighting crime. Like that you really can't do without the invitation of a governor. So we're heading for an uncomfortable showdown with Governor Pritzker in Illinois. And here's what Governor Pritzker is saying about it in SOT 17. Hi, everyone, Governor J.B. Pritzker here. I'm here in Little Village, a beautiful part of the city, was able to just walk down the street and say hello to some of the small business owners. patrons in those small businesses.

Just a lovely day here. No emergency, so Donald Trump understands, no emergency in the city of Chicago to send troops in. But I know people are very afraid because ICE officials, ICE officers are planning to come here to Little Village. And I just want people to know

that we're doing everything we can in the state and in the city to keep you safe. We'll make sure and protect your rights, but you need to know your rights and make sure that you understand that the ICE officials don't have a right to knock down doors to take people away, but make sure you stay safe, all right? We're thinking of you and doing everything we can to protect you.

Okay. Chicago's a big city. He's clearly not in the worst area because over Labor Day weekend alone, 58 people were shot in 37 incidents around the city, including eight homicides. So we've got 58 people who were shot, eight of them dead, from 6 p.m. Friday to noon on Monday, on Monday. So it's not all unicorns and rainbows, as the governor would have you believe.

He doesn't want Trump's help. And Trump is kind of saying, well, you're getting it. It's coming. Here he is in SOT 20A. Both of these sound bites were from Tuesday. Well, we're going in. I didn't say when. We're going in. When you lose, look, I have an obligation. This isn't a political thing. I have an obligation. When we lose, when we lose, When 20 people are killed over the last two and a half weeks and 75 are shot with bullets. So let me tell you a little story about a place called D.C. District of Columbia, right here where we are, it's now a safe zone. We have no crime. We have, it's in such great shape. You can go and actually walk with your children, your wife, your husband. You can walk right down the middle of the street. You're not going to be shot, Peter. You're safe.

Okay. So we can't have Trump going in without the invitation of this governor. I'm sorry, but we can't have it. He does not have the constitutional permission to do it. And I think, and I hope, I'm sorry for the people of Chicago, because I wish their governor would be better and ask for help. But I think Trump knows that. I think it was just a saber rattle because here's what he just said on it today, 20C. So we're making a determination now. Do we go to Chicago or do we go to a place like New Orleans where we have a great governor, Jeff Landry, who wants us to come in and straighten out a very nice section of this country that's become quite, you know, quite tough, quite bad. So we're going to be going to maybe Louisiana and you have New Orleans, which has a crime problem. We'll straighten that out in about. Two weeks. It'll take us two weeks. Easier than D.C. But we could straighten out Chicago. All they have to do is ask us to go into Chicago if we don't have the support of some of these politicians. But I'll tell you who is supporting us, the people of Chicago. And I sort of want them to let it be known. They have incompetent people. So he didn't finish the sentence to go into Chicago without the support of the local politicians. And I think the end of that sentence would have been. is not constitutionally permissible. It very clearly is not constitutionally permissible. He cannot do it. I really hope he doesn't do it because I don't want a world in which I'm siding with Governor Pritzker over President Trump. But I will if he does it because he can't do it legally. However, I think that's what he's saying, Batya, that he's realized that and that he's going to send the help

to cities and states that want it. And what a great way of shaming the Governor Pritzker's of the world. Trump has promised to abide by the Constitution and all of the court rulings, and so far he has, something that, of course, the media refuses to cover. One of his most undercover strengths is his nimbleness. He will pivot if he sees something is not working or if somebody shows him a better option. I totally agree with you. I think going to New Orleans, which is extremely violent, would be a great alternative. My heart really breaks for specifically the black citizens of Chicago who make up 80% of the homicide victims just totally disproportionately represented in the crime statistics.

I'll just give you a few. A black Chicago is 20 times more likely to be killed. A black child is five times more likely. There's literally a crime apartheid in Chicago driven by the first. false pieties and disgusting leaders like J.B. Pritzker and Mayor Brandon Johnson. It's appalling. And there's an incredible book called There Are No Children Here. It was written in the 90s about Caprini Green and the public housing and how dangerous it was. In the opening chapter, it's about a child who just turned eight years old and was given a bunch of change from his mother and his uncles and his grandmother. and he's taking the change and it's in his pockets and he's so excited he's going to go to the store and he's going to buy something he's been really really wanting and never had any money for and he's so excited and he walks outside and the shooting starts and he has to hit the floor and all the change goes flying everywhere and he loses it all trying to save his life

And I was thinking about that scene when I saw footage from a soccer game in the south side of Chicago from over the weekend, where children had to drop to the grass because they were shooting at them. It's just nonsense what Pritzker is saying. The city is not safe for the most vulnerable residents. Safe for him. It is so unacceptable. Exactly. So you have rich white progressives from their gated communities. You know, this is just a reprisal of the defund the police where the most safe and secure and privileged Americans are sentencing black children to get shot at on the way to school.

It is horrifying. And it is so amazing that Donald Trump wants to do something about this. He knows he got, you know, 15% of the black vote. he doesn't care. He feels responsible for every child in this country. It's truly amazing. There's no way if this were happening in Evanston, Illinois, just north of Chicago, they'd be putting up with this. Governor Pritzker puts up with it because he's banking on people not giving a damn that it's blacks killing other blacks or Hispanics, killing other Hispanics. Here he is speaking to a local reporter. NBC5, Chicago, Marianne A. Huron. Listen here, SOT 19.

You're going to hear people, especially back this past weekend, 54 shot, seven dead. Yeah. They're going to say the city's not safe. Would you ask your friends to ride the L after midnight or after, you know, nine o'clock at night even to come down to the city from O'Hare? Look, big cities have crime. There's no doubt about it. Unbelievable. Let's just pay attention to what President Trump is doing targeting Chicago.

He's overlooking... Trump. have much higher crime rates. Trump, he just dodges. He doesn't care. He takes no responsibility for his state. Unfortunately, I have to leave it there because I'm out of time. But Baja, well said, on all points today, you're especially good.

You're always good. You're gearing up for your big show, and I can't wait to hear more on it. Looking forward to seeing you over there, my friend. God bless you, Megan. Thank you for everything. You too, girlfriend. See you soon. Okay.

And we're back tomorrow with our friend Glenn Greenwald. Looking forward to that as well. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show, no BS, no agenda, and no fear.