The Megyn Kelly Show - Bryan Kohberger's Explosive Sentencing: Roommates Speak Out, Families Give Victim Statements, with Howard Blum, Phil Holloway, and Matt Murphy | Ep. 1114

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

Megyn Kelly is joined by legal experts Phil Holloway and Matt Murphy, and Howard Blum, author of "When The Night Comes Falling," to cover the live Bryan Kohberger sentencing, where all the families get a chance to give their victim impact statements. They react to the statements from the two surviving roommates from the Idaho house, Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funke, speaking out for the first time, Kaylee Goncalves' sister Alivea delivering a fiery statement directly to Kohberger, and more. Megyn and the panel discuss the statements and the sentencing, whether the Kohberger sentencing feels like justice, the bizarre few words Kohberger said out loud in court, the potential Kohberger could find a way to get out of prison, the new information about a potential second weapon in the Kohberger murders revealed at his sentencing hearing, the haunting questions we may never get answers to, and more. See more true crime coverage and Megyn's new MK Media channel MK True Crime: http://MKTrueCrime.com/ Birch Gold: Text MK to 989898 and get your free info kit on goldSimpliSafe: Visit https://simplisafe.com/MEGYN to claim 50% off & your first month free!Cozy Earth: Visit https://www.CozyEarth.com/MEGYN & Use code MEGYN for up to 40% offPaleo Valley: Visit https://paleovalley.com and use code MEGYN at checkout to get 15% off your first orderFollow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow 

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show starting today at a special time. It's 11 o'clock Eastern and a big, big day for true crime and the show with the sentencing of Brian Kohlberger, which we will be bringing to you live. They are still filing into the courtroom. At this moment, we expect the proceedings to get underway. Any second we will cede our airtime to the proceeding once it does.

We've got our full panel of legal experts to walk you through the whole thing when it's over or when there are breaks. While I have you, I want to tell you that we've announced today our latest offering from the MK Media Podcast Network that may be of interest to all of you. It's called MK True Crime. It'll be available starting next month on YouTube and on all podcast platforms. We will have on this platform, original shows, live trial coverage, in-depth investigations, legal analysis, and more. And you're going to have all your favorites from Kelly's Court and from our legal segments that we do on the Megyn Kelly Show, Mark Garagos, Arthur Idalla, Mark Iaglarz, Dave Ehrenberg,

Phil Holloway, Ashley Merchant. That's exciting. Ashley Merchant, a Fannie Willis fame, John S. Billboardbo and more names yet to be announced. So you can subscribe now if you're interested at mktruecrime.com, mktruecrime.com, mktruecrime.com. And that way you won't miss any of those shows or the legal commentary that they'll be offering twice a week and all things legal. And I'll be over there as well. Want to get to the Kohlberger sentencing now, joining me as we await the proceedings to get underway. Howard Bloom, author of When the Night Comes Falling, and Phil Holloway, he's also here

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Guys, thanks so much for being here. So we're awaiting the start of this. We've been watching the family's file in all morning. And you can only imagine what a heavy day this is for the poor family members who now already know what Brian Kohlberger's fate is going to be, but probably feel Howard like they owe it to their loved ones to be their voice today. I mean, they do feel a sense of duty. This is their their voice today. I mean, they do feel a sense of duty. This is their last public chance to share how they're feeling, to tell the world how

they feel about even this plea agreement, and they're going to take advantage of it. I know I've talked with one of the family members and they've put a lot of time and a lot of energy into crafting their statements. Yeah. So, and one of the things, one of the surprises I had this morning, sticking with you on this Howard, is that Steve Gonsalves is there, Kaylee's dad,

and he had suggested earlier on he was not gonna go. And I don't know whether he's planning on speaking. I think that his other daughter is going to speak, but he did show up today and he's sort of in a way been the most visible family member on this thing from the start. Well I know his family contacted me about a week ago and we've had some disagreements over the course of this whole thing, but now they just want to focus on the facts and they're trying to find out, and this is extremely poignant, is that they're asking how many

times was Kaylee stabbed? They want to know that. They have a number 54, and they want to say something that's accurate, and they can't get any information from the coroner. And that's the sort of predicament they're in, and that's what this settlement deal will keep them in this predicament. They won't get the answers they will need, not even the basic questions. What has to, how many times has my daughter stabbed? How can they not know that? How, why is that not released from the coroner? The coroner will not tell them that. They're calling me to try to find that out. That's how desperate they are. And your heart goes out to them. I mean at one point Steve Gonzalves said

early on you send your daughter off to college and she comes back to you in a box. How do you live with this? This poor man Phil, he and the other family member, we understand Ethan Chapin's parents will not be there. They don't see any point. The mother is like the most pulled together person you've ever seen in the wake of a tragedy. I was watching her on this new documentary that just hit Amazon Prime on the Idaho Four, and she's very, she's remarkably composed. My hat goes off to her, but she was basically saying, we don't see the point. I think the rest of the family members will be there and will speak and just what a huge responsibility

they must feel, right? Because it's like the victims can't speak and this prosecutor has failed to speak for them. You know, Megan, I've been very critical of how, but not necessarily how the prosecution has handled their case presentation or how they've handled court, but I've been critical and I remain critical as to how they have dealt with these families. You know, the issue of how many times someone was stabbed, I mean that should have been

information provided to the family long ago. They should not have to be begging the coroner to get it right now, here right on the eve of sentencing. The prosecution should have shared as much as they possibly could with them previously and certainly now that the gag order has been lifted. The family should not be treated this way. And in fact, I am of the belief that we should not have had this plea deal to take the death penalty off the table. They're starting, so we don't wanna miss that. Let's dip in. Yep. the defendant. the first degree murder and one

count of felony burglary. In exchange, the party stipulated to recommend a sentence consisting of on burglary 10 years fixed on each of the four counts of first degree murder life fixed.

The parties waved a pre sentence investigation. Uh, to my understanding, neither party submitted a sentencing memorandum or other materials for the court court is familiar with the file and the evidence submitted previously, um, by the parties as it has reviewed them throughout the case and in anticipation of trial. Is there any legal cause why sentence should not be imposed at this time? No, Your Honor. Does the state before impact statements and arguments wish to present evidence today? Your honor, the state does not intend to present evidence in a documentary since we have provided

the court through the court with photographs that we would like to use during the course of our sentencing argument. Sure. All right. Thank you. But no testimony other than impact statements? That's correct, your honor. All right. So with that, let's start with impact statements. the testimony.

No testimony other than impact statements. That's correct. With that, let's start with impact statements. Ms. Jennings will be introducing the evidence. In my understanding, I indicated

through the trial court administrator that we need to see if the video. Any of the victims wish to have the camera not running in audio only? My understanding is all of them indicated they are fine with the video, is that correct?

Yes, your honor, that's correct. Very well. Go ahead. Your Honor, the first and we're taking these in the order, victim impact statements in the order that the charges were listed in the indictment. The first charge being burglary so we will have Bethany Funko's statement and she has asked that her friend Emily Allant read that statement. All right any objection to that? Very well. Thank you your honor. I'll be speaking on behalf of Bethany and so yeah here it reads. My name is Bethany Funk and I was roommates with Maddie, Kaylee, Zana and Ethan. I not only lost some of my best friends,

but I also lost a sister. Never in a million years would I have, would I have thought that something like this would have happened to my closest friends. I thought that we were going to wake up and go upstairs, see them and tell them how they had scared us and that they were going to tease us about how we are constantly scaredy cats. I make jokes about it as we would go to Taco Bell like always.

But sadly, that is not what happened and what turned out to be my worst nightmare. When I first woke up that morning I had no idea what happened. I woke up around 7 with a terrible toothache so I called my dad who is a dentist and he asked what I should do. He told me to take Advil so I did and I went back to sleep. I was still out of it and still didn't know what happened. If I had known I of course would have called 911 right away. I still carry so much regret and guilt for not knowing what had happened and not calling right away even though I understand it wouldn't have changed anything not even if the paramedics had been right outside the door.

even if the paramedics had been right outside the door. I was so frantic that morning and scared to death, not knowing what had happened. And when I made the 911 call, I couldn't even get out the words. And from then on, I don't remember a thing. It was like my brain wiped that whole memory. That was the worst day of my life. And I know it always will be.

While I was still in shock, trying to process the fact that my friends were truly gone, I had been attacked by the public. I was grieving, numb, and unsure of what had happened, what's even real. And at the same time, I was getting flooded with death threats and hateful messages from people who did not know me at all or know the dynamic of our friendship. Social media made it so much worse and strangers made up stories to entertain themselves. The media harassed not just me but also my family. People showed up at our house. They called my phone, my parents phones, other family members phones and we were chased while

I was still trying to survive emotionally and grieve the loss of my friends. I hated and still hate that they are gone, but for some reason, I am still here and I got to live. I still think about this every day. Why me? Why did I get to live and not them? For the longest time, I could not even look at their families without feeling sick with guilt. I did not know what to say or what to do. I was terrified that my presence just made their pain worse.

And I was still here when their kid, their siblings and their friends, their loved ones should have been here instead. After everything happened, I was afraid to go into my own backyard or alone in my house. I was scared that the person who did this would come for me next. I was always scared that the person who did this would come from the next.

I was always scared that the media would try to catch me at any moment of any day. Even when I was just walking around my house and that my parents close all the blinds during the day so not no one can see me even in the slightest chance. I barely left the house and when I did I made sure I was never alone. I slept in my parents room for almost a year. I made them double lock every door, set an alarm, and still check everywhere in the room just in case someone was hiding and I still check my room every night

before and I double lock it. I have not slept through a single night since this happened I constantly wake up in panics terrified. Someone is breaking in or someone is here to hurt me or I'm about to lose someone else that I love. The fear never really leaves. For a long time I could barely get out of bed, but one day I realized I have to live for them. They did not get the chance to keep living, but I do and I will not take that for granted.

So now every day I remind myself to live for them and everything I do, I do it with them in mind. I am still scared to go out in public, but I force myself to do things because I know that they would want me to keep living my life to the fullest. I am beyond blessed to still be here, and I refuse to take that for granted when they did not get a chance. Our house was not just a house, it was a home. It was where we laughed till we couldn't breathe, make meals, did crafts, binge watch reality shows, played games, and spent lazy days on the couch. It was movie nights, wine nights, morning debriefs, pranks, hot chocolate, cookies, and warmth. I would cherish those memories forever and I will not let what happened erase how special our home was or how much those memories meant to me. Now I would like to share some bits and pieces of who they

were as people and some of the memories that we shared. One of my favorite memories was Halloween and we all went to Sigma Chi but instead of partying we just sat in an apartment talking and laughing all night long. I do not think I've ever laughed that hard in my life. We did not care about the party, we were just happy to be with each other. Zana was one in a million. She was the life of the party. But she was also the kindest and funniest person I knew. Everyone loved her because she made everyone feel so loved. She was just someone you always wanted to be around no matter the circumstance.

One of my favorite days with Zana was when she laid on the couch, when we laid on the couch together all day watching movies and snacking. When she, Maddie, and I would go and get margaritas, chips, and salsa, she would also light up a room with her presence alone. Kaylee had the most beautiful radiant smile, and she was so kind, but also one of the funniest people I've ever known. She loved playing little pranks. She always had us laughing so hard that we could not breathe. She was so full of energy in life. I really believed that she could have ruled the

world if she wanted to and she would have been America's sweetheart. Ethan was the sweetest most genuine guy. He was always smiling and always making other people smile too. Ethan was the kind of person you wanted around. He was so kind and easy to talk to and just so fun. And the way he cared for Zana was truly something to admire. And really was proof that storybook love and true romances really do exist.

I was not only, it was not only obvious to me but everyone that was around Ethan and Santa that they were absolute soulmates. Maddie was not only one of my best friends but she was the older sister I would have always wanted. There was no one I looked up to or admired more than Maddie. She was truly a ray of sunshine

and everyone was drawn to her. She was so kind, loving, funny, fun, and passionate. She had the sweetest soul and wanted nothing but the best for everyone and to love and show love to everyone. She took me under her wing and always made me feel so safe and included, and above all, loved and valued.

She never failed to make me laugh or put a smile on my face. Still to this day, I am beyond grateful that she chose me to be her sorority little, and I thank God every day that I not only got to know her, but had her as one of my best friends. Honestly, I cannot pinpoint one favorite memory with Maddie because I have so many,

and this would be a very long read if I did. But if some little memories with her that I cherish is when the two of us made a nice dinner and split some wine, or when we would binge watch Jersey Shore or Summer House. When we came up with a whole dance routine on Halloween and danced and sang all night, like no one was watching. All the late night walks home from going out, and just little shopping trips and so much more.

I am beyond blessed that I had the chance to know each and every one of them. They changed my life in ways I would have never put into words. I hope that they are remembered for who they are, every one of them. They changed my life in ways I would have never put into words. I hope that they are remembered for who they are and not what happened to them because who they are were so beautiful and they deserve to be remembered in the highest way. My heart breaks every time I go to text one of them or how badly I wish I could see and hang out with them.

And then I remember I cannot. I will never be able to again. But I still talk to them in my prayers every single night and I always will. I wish more than anything I could hug them one last time. And I wish I could tell them how much I love them. And even though I cannot, I still tell them every night, I will keep living for them as long as I am lucky enough

to still be here. And they were all truly one of a kind and they will be in our hearts forever and always. Thank you and please convey to Bethany my appreciation for her courage and I hope that she heals. Next is Dylan Mortenson. We're asking for some accommodations from this Mortenson and that she be allowed to sit in my seat. Sure. Don't just take your time, all right? Thank you, Your Honor. What happened that night changed everything. Because of him, for beautiful, genuine, compassionate people were taken from this world for no reason. He didn't just take their lives.

He took the light that carried it into every room. He took away how they made everyone feel safe, loved, and full of joy. He took away the ability for me to tell him that I love him and I'm so proud of them. He took away who they were becoming and the futures they were going to have. He took away birthdays, graduations, celebrations, and all the memories that we were supposed to make. All of it is gone. And all the people who loved them are just left to carry that weight forever.

He didn't just take them from the world, he took them from me, my friends, my people who felt like my home, the people I looked up to and adored more than anyone. He took away my ability to trust the world around me. What he did shattered me in places I didn't know could break. I was barely 19 when he did this. We had just celebrated my birthday at the end of September. I should have been figuring out who I was. I should have been having the college experience and starting to establish my future. Instead, I was forced to learn how to survive the unimaginable.

I couldn't be alone. I had to sleep in my mom's bed because I was too terrified to close my eyes, terrified that if I blinked someone might be there. I made escape plans everywhere I went. If something happens how do I get out? What can I use to defend myself? Who can I help? Then there are the panic attacks. The kind that slam into me like a tsunami nowhere. I can't breathe. I can't think. I can't stop shaking. All I can do is scream because the emotional pain and the grief is too much to handle. My chest feels like it's caving in.

Sometimes I drop to the floor with my heart racing, convinced something is very wrong. It's far beyond anxiety. It's my body reliving everything over and over again. My nervous system never got the message that it is over and it won't let me forget what he did to them. People call me strong. They say I'm a survivor. They don't see what my new reality looks like. They don't see the panic attacks, the hypervigilance, the exhaustion, the way I scan every room I enter, The way I flinch at sudden sounds They don't know how heavy it heavy it is to carry so much pain and still be expected to keep going and that's because

of him He still parts of me I may never get back He stole that he took the version of me who didn't constantly ask what if it happens again What if next time I don't survive? He may have shattered parts of me, but I'm still putting myself back together. Piece by piece, I'm learning how to live in this new version of life. It is not easy.

It hurts, but I'm still trying, still trying, and I'm not trying just for me. I'm trying for them, my friends. About a year ago, I had a dream about them I got to say goodbye I told them I won't be able to see you again so I need to tell you goodbye they all kept asking why and all I could say was I can't tell you but I have to when I woke up I felt shattered and heartbroken but but also strangely grateful. Like maybe in some way that dream gave us the goodbye we never got.

Still no dream can replace them, and no goodbye will ever feel finished. He is a hollow vessel, something less than human. A body without empathy, without remorse. He chose destruction. He chose evil. He feels nothing. He tried to take everything from me, my friends, my safety, my identity, my future. He took their lives, but I will continue trying to be like them to make them proud.

Living is how I honor them. Speaking today is to help me find some sort of justice for them. And I will never let him take that from me. He may have taken so much from me, but he will never get to take my voice. He will never take the memories I had with him. He will never erase the love we shared,

the laughs we had, or the way they made me feel seen and whole, those things are mine, they are sacred, and he will never touch them. I get to feel sadness, I get to feel rage, I get to feel joy even when it's hard, I get to feel love even when it hurts, I get to live. And while I will still live with this pain, at least I get to live my life. He will stay here, empty, forgotten, and powerless. He will stay here empty, forgotten, and powerless.

Jillian, thank you so much for your courage. I appreciate it. Next, we have members from the Madison Logan family. First would be Scott Laramie, Madison Logan's stepfather. the victim. Thank you. Standing stepfather and the husband of Maddie's mother, Karen Laramie. I will read this victim impact statement on behalf of Karen and myself. Maddie was our gift of life, our purpose, and our hope. Maddie quickly became Karen's joy, identity, and purpose in life. I joined Maddie's family, Maddie's life when she was two and a half years old. Experience transformed me into a life of joy, love, and family. Maddie was bright, beautiful, kind, empathic. She listened carefully to others and was observant, seeing and caring about the hearts and the minds of all she encountered.

She loved music and music festivals. She had a wonderful sense of humor. She excelled in school. She was an easy child, an easy child to raise, almost never requiring discipline and almost always giving us parental joy. One time Karen remembers disciplining Maddie as a little girl. Maddie responded, you broke my heart, which of course melted ours. She had a keen wit even at that young age.

She transitioned into teenage years. She prioritized us and extended family over many of the distractions that capture teenagers. She showered us with her presence and love at family events, barbecues, picnics, birthdays, holidays and others. She spent countless hours with her papa, her uncle David, and Aideen, and her other close family and friends. This world

was a better place with her in it. As she reached adulthood, Maddie applied her studies to be a marketing professional, entering into an internship at Payne West, and started planning her professional future. As with all things, she involved Karen and myself in the joy of her journey. As she transitioned into womanhood, Karen and I continued to be astounded at this wonderful and accomplished person

we had created. All parents dream of their children accomplishing more than them. We realized this dream. All we had not become, she was becoming. Karen and I are ordinary people, but we lived extraordinary lives because we had Maddie. Maddie was taken senselessly and brutally in a sudden act of evil. She was taken along with the young, promising, and bright lives of Kaylee, Xana, and Ethan. First we felt disbelief. Next we felt disorientation. Then we felt grief overcome us. Our grief is compounded even more for the Ginkalbas, Crenotl, and Chapin families. We speak of hope and healing, and we do have hope and some healing. But the vast emotional wound will never fully heal.

Since Maddie's loss, there's emptiness in our hearts, home and family, and endless void. After losing your mother in a car crash, Karen took to grieve. Karen took years to grieve and recover. The feeling that her life with Maddie and they was perfect helped her to start to heal. Now this is no longer perfect. After Maddie's loss, Karen felt like she was spinning out emotionally, emotionally collapsing into anxiety and depression. She sometimes asks how am I supposed to go on when I've lost my favorite person in the world. I felt the same and we continue to struggle. The

loss of Maddie has impacted so many beyond our family. Her second family is a sorority sisters who grieve alongside us. She has so many close friends who suffer from her loss. We will continue to be felt by the Vandal community, including Vandal Solutions on campus, where she volunteered her time for others. It helps us to know that he is in heaven now, freed from the trials of this earth. We, however, continue to live on without the grace and support of her presence. We will grow old without our only child, our bright, beautiful friend and daughter.

In the end, there are no words that can accurately capture the devastation of losing Maddie. We will endure and we will go on. For Maddie, we will not let our grief consume us. For Maddie, we will continue to love and care for our family and friends, including the families of Kaylee, Santa, and Ethan. We will remain united with them. We can only hope that others out there suffering similar losses can look to us and see that we can overcome hatred, darkness and evil. We know the law allows us to comment on the defendant and the sentence.

As for the sentence, we support the plea agreement. Society needs to be protected against this evil. As for the defendant, we will not waste words, nor will we fall into hatred and bitterness. Evil has many faces and we now know this, but evil does not deserve our time and attention. We are done being victims. We are taking back our lives. We will turn our time, talents, and attention to hope, healing, and helping others and to the future.

We invite all those who have suffered with us on this to join us in our journey. We can make this world a better place. We can move on from tragedy. Adversity will visit us. Evil will visit us. But we will overcome. We can and we'll endure. Karen and I express our gratitude to your honor and to the prosecution team

for allowing us the opportunity to make this statement. Thank you. Thank you so much for your courage and I am so sorry for your loss. God bless you. Thank you, your loss. God bless you. Your honor. Your honor, this is Leander James. He's the attorney for the Mogan family victim advocate. He'll be reading a statement for Karen Laramie.

May it please the court, counsel? My name is Leander James. I am the pro bono counsel for Karen and Scott Laramie. Karen has asked me to read the statement into the record. I thank my husband Scott for his statement, his courage, and his unending love and support during this dark time. While words are inadequate to capture the impact

of this horrific crime on our family, he expressed it as best anyone could. For Maddie's sake, I will add my supplement statement that incorporates additional impact in the context of my extended family. I am grateful to Maddie's great uncle, Brian Caulfield, for assisting me with a difficult, difficult task of putting our pain into words. For me and my extended family, Maddie was our hope and our light.

Her beauty both outside and in shone its light upon everyone with whom she came in contact. Her beauty both, pardon me, she carried that hope and light into the future and the people she was with and everyone with whom she came in contact. Her beauty both, pardon me, she carried that hope and light into the future for our entire family. We have memories of our Maddie

and grief and pain at her being taken from our presence. Any one of us would have given our own light to have been outshone by hers. We now look to our Creator to know that her light continues where we look to see her in his presence. Those who commit evil for their own twisted gains and purposes truly defile the efforts and sacrifices of mothers, fathers, families, teachers, clergy, public servants,

service members, and all those who commit themselves to the greater good, freedoms, and the future light of our nation. Condemnation falls heavily upon those who squandered the lives of our future hopes and dreams. Some may offer forgiveness for what the defendant has done. However, we cannot at this time, or perhaps ever, nor will we ask for mercy for what he has done. His acts are too heinous, acts are too heinous, the agony and grief he has caused too great. But we will we will waste no further words or thoughts on him. For Mattie's sake we will move on. We will do our best to carry Mattie's light into this world and make it a better place. I thank the court and the prosecution

for allowing me the opportunity to make my statement. And I thank all those who have and will support my family and the families of Kaylee, Zana, and Ethan. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mrs. Larmay. Appreciate it. Next is Ben Mogan, the father of Maddie Mogan.

Yes, of course. Actually, Your Honor, it'll be Kim Chiehle, the grandmother of Maddie Mogin. My name is Kim Chiehle. I was Maddie Mogin's paternal grandmother. As Ben Mogin, her father is Kim Chile. I was Maddie Mogens paternal grandmother as Ben Mogen her father is my son. I'm here today with my sister Lori Chile, Maddie's great-aunt and my son Ben Mogen and my daughter-in-law Corey Hatrock. I'd like to begin by thanking a number of people involved in bringing this case to closure. In my daughter's words, the plea deal the prosecution team reached this month is one

that punishes the perpetrator of this horrendous crime, protects the public from further harm, and allows all of us who knew and loved these kids the time to grieve without the anxiety of the long and gruesome trial, the years of appeals, and potential for mistrials along the way. My family and I are so grateful to Bill Thompson and his prosecution team for their dedication and painstaking work that forced the perpetrator to admit

his guilt. We want to thank the Idaho State Police, the Moscow Police Department, the FBI, Judge Hippler. We'd also like to thank the University of Idaho officials who have treated the families of the victims with such dignity and kindness and who have honored the four victims beautifully. Maddie was my first grandchild, so when she was born, all her grandparents had the distinct pleasure of deciding what we'd like to be called.

I chose Nana, pretty original, but when Maddie was about a year and a half old, her papa, Ben's dad, and I were planning to visit the new little family in Oregon. Maddie didn't have an extensive vocabulary at the time, but for some unknown reason she called bananas Bob deedle-deedles when Karen and Ben told her Nana was coming to visit she figured I say deedle-deedle for that word so I became deedle-deedle shortened to deedle when she was about

six or seven and I was deedle all her life I don't think her stepdad Scotty ever knew my given name was Kim. Maddie's and my birthdays were one day apart and a couple years before she was killed she gave me this necklace with Deedle and Maddie engraved on it. And I added an angel wing, and it's one of my treasured possessions. I also got an angel wing tattoo. Never thought I'd see the day,

but along with many members of our family, replicating the one that Maddie and her sorority sisters had. I wanted mine where I could see and touch it often. From preschool through grade school, I stopped teaching piano lessons early on Wednesdays and picked Maddie up for bubble baths, brownies, and books. It was our special time together and she went home those nights in her jammies with a pan of warm brownies for her family. Although Karen and Scotty raised Maddie and did a such a lovely job of parenting,

we Mogan's were lucky to have her for holidays and many other family gatherings. We'll always have our treasured memories of Maddie growing up in our big, extended, cooperative family. And I thank Karen and Scottie Laramie for being so generous and open and sharing Maddie with her Mogan side of the family. When the four kids were murdered, the foundation fell out of our world. Initially the fear was truly debilitating. The first six weeks were excruciating despite the vigils, memorials, candlelight gatherings of students, friends, family, community members.

After the arrest in the past two and a half years, my family has lived with grief, with the effects of traumatic grief, of which I was blissfully unaware before all of this. I now have a stack of books on grief. I've attended grief classes at hospice. I've tried EMDR, a technique that helps replace disturbing visions with something more comforting. My son Ben, his two sisters, Maddie's aunts, and I have all experienced depression and anxiety

and sleep disturbance, requiring medical intervention at times. We've all sought counseling off and on. The struggle with media attention was extremely difficult, especially for Ben. No one should live through the violent murder of one's child. Some days it's beyond me how the parents of these kids are still upright.

I'm thankful for the strong families and communities that are supporting the survivors. At the time, I could think of only two blessings surrounding the horrific murders. One was that Ben was living with my partner, Tom and me at the time, and that we could support each other emotionally through it all. Sadly, Tom died a year ago of a rare brain cancer, and he won't be here to see justice served. He was our family's

rock and we all miss him every day. A second blessing is that my mother died of COVID several months before the kids were killed and she didn't have to live through the horror. It was difficult to identify blessings. So we've all lost our dear child and a future with her. I ache for the loss of the dreams that she and her true love Jake held. And my heart goes out to Karen and Scotty and your side of Maddie's family. You've had more than your share of loss.

My heart aches for the kids' roommates and the families of the other victims and also the family of the perpetrator. Thank you. Going forward, we Mogan's are choosing to put our energy and focus into honoring Maddie's two short life and sweet spirit by celebrating Maddie May Day, which my two daughters established. On May 25th each year, Maddie's birthday, we encourage folks to do random acts of kindness in Maddie's name. In my daughter Katie's words,

may we all protect our peace in whatever way possible, unite in community and focus on joy. Please do enact in kindness in Maddie's honor during this week so a glimmer of Maddie's light may live on. Thank you. Thank you Lynn. I appreciate your courage and bless you and your family. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate your courage and bless you and your family. Thank you. And Benjamin Mogan and Maddie's dad. I'm going to say thanks to all the people that helped bring this all to a close.

I know it's not the resolution that everyone wanted, but I think that everyone works so hard and we really appreciate all their efforts. It was such a hard thing to go through for everybody. She was my only child that I ever had. She was the most, she was the only great thing I ever really did and the only thing I was really ever proud of. And I thought we would have the rest of our lives together I thought we would have the rest of our lives together to be together and know each other and I really took for granted. At the time she was in college and I thought, oh, well, we'll have the rest of our lives to do all the stuff

that we're supposed to do. She was just about done. She actually earned all of her credits for her college degree. Karen and Scotty and I got to go and get her diploma that she actually earned. She served every bit of that. I thought that was going to be just the beginning of a long life together and and we never got that. Karen and Scottie did such a great job raising her after Karen and I after Karen and I split up and I'm so thankful for Scotty and the role that he played in her life when I wasn't able to. But we got to spend a lot of great times together. Maddie

and I, she was my favorite person to go to a concert with and we got to see some fun shows together and I told her if there's ever a show that you want to go to a concert with. We got to see some fun shows together and I told her if there's ever a show that you want to go to let me know and I'll get you tickets for you and your friend or if you want to go together we'll make it happen and we my favorite memory with her was when the Mac Miller show sold out here in Spokane and how did everyone want to take it so no one could get them and they on the last day before the show they did a radio thing and I I got four meet-and-greet tickets for for Maddie and her friends and me to go and see the show and that

was her favorite artist at the time was Mac Miller. And he's gone now too. And my little cousin, Zach, drove us all there that night and he's gone too tragically. And yeah, anyway, the last thing that she ever wrote to me was this Father's Day card. And I'm so glad I still have it. I'm just going to read what she said. It says, Happy Father's Day. I hope you have the best day. I can't wait till we can hang out again soon. I'll be in Coeur d'Alene 624 to 74.

Hopefully we can find a time then. I love your birthday card that you sent me by the way. Maybe we can see a concert sometime soon. I'd love to see the gourds when it's not so smoky out. I hope you're doing well. I'm proud of how far you've come. Thank you for always encouraging me to do my best. Love you lots and lots.

Love, Maddie Mae. She did encourage me to, not just to do my best, but to live on. I went through a lot of issues with addiction and with substance abuse. And when I wasn't wanting to live anymore, she was what would keep me from just not caring anymore. And knowing that she was out there

and that she was such a beautiful person kept me alive a lot of rough moments and I'm so glad that she was able to meet Jake he was the only one that actually ever got to take her to the gorge they went and saw Watershed together and yeah they had a heck of a time. I'm glad she got to, that's a really special place for me and I always wanted, she always wanted to work out there with me in the summer sometimes. And she never got to but at least she got to see it once with Jake. He was such a great guy. He is such a great guy. And I really wanted to see what a future with him would have looked like.

I... I'll never... I'll never be able to replace her. I wrote a bunch of stuff. I just don't know what to say right now. I just miss her so much and I just love her more than anything. And this shouldn't happen. And, you know, at death sentences is one thing, you know, you know, when it's going to happen and, you know, it's going to be all gentle and stuff, you know, life without parole

with a room building full of people that all just want you to Not be around anymore Winking at every morning not knowing if that's a day they're gonna pull your card. I mean, that's it's not a very nice sentence either so You know, I don't Love you Maddie, I wish you were still here. Thank you so much. Here on our next would be members from the Kaylee Gonzalves family.

First will be her father, Steve Gonzalez. Today, we are here to finish what you started. to the world that you pick the wrong families. Wrong state, the wrong police officers. The wrong community. You tried to break the law. You tried to break the law. You tried to break the law. You tried to The wrong state, the wrong police officers, the wrong community. You tried to break our community apart.

You tried to plant fear. You tried to divide us. You failed. Instead, your actions have united everyone and they're discussed for you. I just learned from these lead investigators to their shock. They worked in investigation and actually in worked with Pennsylvania police officers and the federal FBI.

You united everyone. Everyone was united after you. None of us are divided. We are united and are discussed and our love for these children. Today you have no name. Because when this all started, we all came together and we said, let's stop even talking about his name. just use initials. So even the media just called you BK.

That's all you are. Looking back when the police officers knocked on my door, told me what happened to my child, told me what happened to Maddie May. I don't think he was even out of the driveway before my kids turned around looked at me and said what do we do dad? I told them you get to work. You get your ass to work. We started calling, we started texting, we started emailing and you know what? Within hours, within hours, we had your white car on the camera. We knew, we knew from the very beginning we had you.

Police officers tell us- Welcome everyone, this is Megan Kelly. We are in live coverage here of the sentencing hearing for Brian Kohlberger, confessed killer of the Idaho Four, and Steve Consolves is speaking now, Father Kaylee. I have to agree, you. Your joke, complete joke. But we took this disaster and we did what we could. We put everything online, we took our kids, we took our images, we took everything that they did, their videos, their photos, the girls pranks, Ethan singing. We put it out there, we shared it with the

world and the world united. And all they ended up when they talked about this case is they Kaylee Jade, Maddie Mae, Xana, and Ethan. Everything that these people meant to us, a father, a mother, a brother, a sister, we shared that with our community. Then we shared it with our state, we shared it with the country, and eventually we shared it with the world. The world's watching because of the kids, not because of you. Nobody cares about you. You're not worth the time, the effort to be remembered. In time, you will be nothing but two initials, forgotten to the wind, no visitors, nothing more than initials on an otherwise unmarked tombstone.

From this moment, we've all started from this moment, we will forget you. We want to all leave in closing one last thing. You picked the wrong family and we're laughing at you on your trip to Penn. I will be today or tomorrow. I'll close with God bless all the men and women that worked on this case and all the hard work that you guys did. You guys allowed us to grieve and allowed us to get through this. The amount of work that you guys put together

and the way that you guys put it together was beautiful. There was hard times to be expected, but thank you all and God bless. Thank you. God bless. Thank you. Your Honor, next is Stephen Gonzalves, Kaylee's brother. Stephen's actually going to pass, I'm going to go. Olivia Gonzalves, Kaylee's sister.

us Kaylee's sister. Hello I'd like to start by thanking the court for allowing me the time and opportunity to speak today. My name is Olivia and I'm the big sister of Kaylee Gonzalves and I was blessed to love Madison Mogan as a sister too. I'm not here today to speak in grief I'm here to speak in truth because the truth is my sister Kaylee and her best friend Maddie were not yours to take they were not yours to study to stalk or to silence they were two pieces of a whole the perfect yin and yang they are everything that you could never be loved, accepted, vibrant, accomplished, brave, and powerful.

Because the truth about Kaylee and Maddie is they would have been kind to you. If you had approached them in their everyday lives, they would have given you directions, thanked you for the compliment, or awkwardly giggled to make your own words less uncomfortable for you. In a world that rejected you, they would have shown mercy.

Because the truth is, I'm angry. Every day I'm angry. I'm left shouting at the inside of my own head everything I wish I could say to you. The truth about me is when I heard the news, I didn't cry. I listened for them. I promised them I would, that I would fight for them, that I would show up no matter what it cost me. I swore I'd never let them feel alone. Because you you see I've always been their heavyweight. I've always been the one to fight the battles they didn't feel ready to fight themselves. All it ever took was a call and they knew I would handle it for them no matter the time,

no matter the cost. They could wave their white flag because they knew I would never back down not for them and Not even death could change that Somewhere along the line I started to think about what I would say to them if I was given just one last chance If I could gather enough heartbreak or love or sacrifice or whatever it took to get just one message across What would I say? or love or sacrifice or whatever it took to get just one message across. What would I say? Throughout this entire process, I've written my feelings down at every moment, my wishes, my love, my denial, my anger.

And as one final act of love, I'd plan to read these thoughts, even jarring and discombobulating and not even making sense. Because for me that was true love. As bare and as naked as it could be, not laced in pretty words or dressed for the occasion, but written through bleary eyes at 2 a.m. with clenched fists, angry at this reality. My true final act of love was to continue on without them, for them. That dream to read aloud my love to them, to bring meaning through pain,

was the latest blow in realizing you don't deserve it. And Kaylee and Maddie don't need it. Kaylee and Maddie have always known my love and they would never ask me to prove it you give the satisfaction of showing vulnerability now? You promised you would never back down. And for that clarity, I'm thankful. I won't stand here and give you what you want. I won't offer you tears. I won't offer you trembling. Disappointments like you thrive on pain, on fear, and on the illusion of power.

And I won't feed your beast. Instead, I will call you what you are. Sociopath, psychopath, murderer. I will ask the questions that reverberate violently in my own head, so loudly that I can't think straight most any day. Some of these might be familiar. So set up straight when I talk to you. How was your life right before you murdered my sisters?

Did you prepare for the crime before leaving your apartment? Please detail what you were thinking and feeling at this time. Why did you choose my sisters. Before making your move. Did you approach my sisters. These how what you are thinking and feeling. Before leaving their home is there anything else you did. anything else you did. How does it feel to know the only thing you failed more miserably at than being a murderer is trying to be a rapper?

Did you recently start shaving or manually pulling out your eyebrows? Why November 13? Did you truly think your Amazon purchase was untraceable because you used a gift card? the the the the the the

the the the the the the the family. What did you bring into on December 30th, 2022. Which do you regret more? Returning to the crime scene five hours later, or never ever going back to Moscow,

not even once after stalking them there for months? If you were really smart, do you think you'd be here right now? What's it like needing this much attention just to feel real? You're terrified of being ordinary, aren't you? Do you feel anything at all? Or are you exactly what you always feared? Nothing.

If you're so powerful, then why are you still hiding, defendant? You see, I'm here today as me. But who are you? Let's try to take off your mask and see. You didn't create devastation. You revealed it in it's in yourself. And that darkness you carry that emptiness, you'll sit with it long after this is over. That is your sentence.

And it was written on the wall long before you ever pled guilty. You didn't win. You just exposed yourself as the coward you are. You're a delusional, pathetic, hypochondriac loser who thought you were so much smarter than everybody else. Constantly scolding, turning your nose up to grammar mistakes, nitpicking and criticizing others.

You wanted so badly to be different, to be special, to be better, to be deep, to be mysterious. You found yourself thinking you were better than everyone else, and you thought you could figure out the human psyche and see through it, all while tweaked out on heroin. Lurking in the shadows made you feel powerful, because no one ever paid you any attention in the light. You thought you were exceptional, all because of a grade on a paper. You thought you were elite because your online IQ test from 2010 told you so. All of that effort just to seem important.

It's desperate. There is a name for your condition though. Your inflated ego just didn't allow you to see it. Wanna be. You act like no one could ever understand your mind, but the truth is you're basic. You're a textbook case of insecurity disguised as control. Your patterns are predictable, your motives are shallow.

You are not profound, you're pathetic. You aren't special or deep, not mysterious or exceptional. Don't ever get it twisted again. No one is scared of you today. No one is intimidated by you. No one is impressed by you. No one thinks that you are important. You orchestrated this like you thought you were God.

Now look at you, begging a courtroom for scraps. You spent months preparing, and still all it took was my sister and a sheath. You work so hard to seem dangerous, but real control doesn't have to prove itself. The truth is, the scariest part about you is how painfully average you turned out to be. The truth is, as dumb as they come, stupid, clumsy, slow, sloppy, weak, dirty.

Let me be very clear. Don't ever try to convince yourself you mattered just because someone finally said your name out loud. I see through you. You want the truth? Here's the one you'll hate the most. If you hadn't attacked them in their sleep in the middle of the night like a pedophile,

Kaylee would have kicked your fucking ass. Thank you. Thank you. Next is Kristi Gonzalves, Kaylee Gonzalves' mother. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I never imagined having to speak to someone so devoid of humanity. For a long time, I didn't think I'd find the words low enough to meet you where you are. But now I realize this isn't about you. It's about what you've done to me and I need you to hear it.

When you murdered my daughter, Kaylee Jenkins Alves, you didn't just take her life, you shattered others. You attacked what you could never be and in doing so, you left a trail of devastation far beyond that house. You stole my peace. You've altered my every waking moment, every sleepless night. The way I view the world, people, safety, trust, it's all been changed by your cruelty.

I no longer recognize parts of myself. Joy is harder to find. Laughter feels foreign. The world moves forward, but I'm suspended in a place of sorrow and rage. You've taken from me something that can never be restored. The grief sits with me every day, some days quietly and other days so loud it drowns out everything else. The emotional toll you've inflicted on me is immeasurable. I live with a constant ache with birthdays that are now memorials, with holidays that

feel hollow, with empty chairs that scream louder than words ever could. I am forever changed. But for you, as a person working on a PhD in criminal justice, you really didn't think this one through. You're not that good. In fact, you're not that good at anything. You couldn't secure a job. You couldn't get along with others. You couldn't even get a female to look in your direction, all because you are pathetic. All because you are pathetic

Now you're a joke in this courtroom I Wish I could have crowned. I wish I could crown you with a jester hat to complete your orange jumpsuit clown look a Dead killer doesn't kill again. So while I'm disappointed the firing shot won't get to take their shots at you I'm confident that the men in prison will have their way with you in more ways than one. You will finally get what you wanted, physical touch, just probably not how you were expecting it. See, you haven't beat the system. You've simply entered a new one where the rules are cruel and the consequences will never end. You are entering a place where no one will care who you are and no one will ever respect you.

You will be forgotten, discarded, used, and erased. You will always be remembered as a loser, an absolute failure, and when those prison doors slam shut behind you, I hope that sound echoes in your heart for the rest of your meaningless days. I hope it reminds you of what we all already know. You're nothing. May you continue to live your life in misery. You are officially the property of the state of Idaho where your fellow inmates are anxiously awaiting your arrival, but it's okay because they're there to help you.

Hell will be waiting. Quick message from our youngest daughter. Aubrey wanted to say, you may have received A's in high school and college, but you're going to say. Aubrey wanted to say. You may have received A's in high school and college, but you're going to be getting big DS in prison. Thank you. the family. Do we have more from the Gonzalez family?

Next is Shannon gray, the Gonzalez family attorney. He will be reading statements from Kaylee Gonzalez's grandmothers. Good morning, Your Honor. Shannon Gray, the attorney for the Gonzávez family. I actually have three statements, one from her aunt and two from her grandparents. This is from her aunt, Tammy Butts. You and the cloak of darkness made a decision

to turn our whole family's world upside down forever. You and the cloak of darkness took our Kayleigh J. González away from us all without hesitation. Never have you shown any remorse or regret. We just get creepy non-expressive non-expressive stares as you as you have your team of women defend you. Kayleigh was a strong, kind, fun, loving, caring person and she will greatly be missed by all her family and friends for the rest of our lives. She had goals in life that you took from her and us.

We lose on watching her enjoying her life, working hard and building the future she wanted. She was ready to start that after college life. You and the cloak of darkness took it all the way. You left us without her future wedding, her future children that she would have added to our family. No more talking to her on the phone, going for a coffee, celebrating holidays. It's all gone. You and the cloak of darkness gave each and every one of Kaylee's family members their own lifetime sentence. You and the cloak of darkness also took our Maddie Mae from all of us. She was so genuine, caring, polite.

She was part of our family. You came in, harmed our children that were younger women than you in their own beds. You're nothing, you're a coward. It's not right that you have received life. I pray that you meet your end in the cloak of darkness, burn in hell. I have two other statements your honor.

This is Linda Lukin's statement. This is Kaylee's grandmother. I really don't know how to address something so inhumane, but I will try. Nothing in the past two and a half years has made any sense. All I get is you cowardly went into a home at night, filled with what I'm sure you thought was all sleeping girls, and went on a vicious killing spree for no other reason but to appease your demonic urges. You took my granddaughter Kayleigh from us plus 3 other beautiful lives.

You took my granddaughter Kayleigh beautiful sweet soul doll face Kayleigh who was getting ready to start her amazing life, who had such a bright future, who was loved by so many, who you were so envious of, she had a life you could never have. You are so beyond human. You're definitely a demon from hell. I truly wish your punishment would be the same death

you inflicted on our kids. But I think you will meet some new friends in prison who will be there just to help you. Thumbs up. And I have one last statement, your honor. This is from Cheryl Gonzavez, Kaylee's other grandmother. John 1.5 says, light shines in the darkness and the darkness overcomes it not.

Somewhere in your life, something, some jealousy, envy, ego, something went dark. It pushed out all light until you became dark and evil. And when you saw my granddaughter and her friends, their light because they have such a light, you couldn't stand it. Because the darkness in you could not stand the light in them.

And so you decided to destroy it. Cowardly, you walked into their rooms in the dark and took their lives hoping to get rid of your darkness but you didn't you failed because you know what was once a light shown only to their friends families and loved ones is now all over the world. Everyone sees it, their smile, their beauty, their plans, everything they were and had. And you think you put a close to it, even that, but you didn't because they still exist. They are still light. They are still beautiful. You can never take that away. They will always be in the light of all eternity.

And you will be in the darkness because you could not overcome it. You failed. I want you to be gone more than gone. I want you to be cast out. Cast out from my life, from my family, from this earth. I will now allow your hatred to penetrate into my own soul. You did not get that power. You are evil and in the end evil is eradicated. You didn't take Kaylee's light, you spread it into the world. Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you. Right, if the consultant, are you moving to a different family now? Why don't we take a 10-minute recess, all right? to the next panel.

Are you moving to a different family now? Why don't we take a 10 minute recess? All right. Extraordinary. Good God, what just happened that we watched together? Kaylee Consolves' sister, Olivia, with the most powerful victim impact statement I've ever heard, completely flipping the whole narrative, refusing to talk about her pain or to read, as she described it from the journal she's been keeping,

as she's gone through all of the emotions following her sister's murder, something she considered doing, and instead going on offense, diminishing him, mocking him, laughing at him. Literally, there was a laugh at one point, and she called him pathetic, a loser, and said in that moment that we're all still reeling from, hold on, I want to get it because I wrote it down exactly. If you hadn't attacked them in the middle of the night while they were asleep like a pedophile, Kayleigh would have kicked your fucking ass.

That was the position she came from, Olivia Goncalves, from a position of strength as the big sister who always protected her younger sisters, as she called both Kayleigh and her best friend Maddie Mogan. Wow. That was something to watch. Steve Goncalves, who originally had said he wasn't going to speak at all at this thing, got up, turned the lectern to face Brian Kohlberger, to stare him down and to have his say in the same defiant tone, with the same righteous anger he

addressed him. Both of the Gonsalves there and the mother too, refusing to sound like they'd been victimized, saying, today you've lost control. You picked the wrong families, the wrong state, the wrong police. He said, your actions have united everyone in their disgust for you. None of us are divided. We're united in our disgust

and in our love for our children. You have no name. We only call you BK. The media has been calling you that too. You're a joke, he said, Steve Consolves. He made the point that we've shared the videos of our four children with the world. That's what they know.

They know their names, they know their joy, they know their love for one another. They know their zest for life. That's who they've been discussing, he said. The world is watching because of the kids, not because of you. No one cares about you. You'll be forgotten. From this moment, we will forget you, ending with you pick the wrong family. Again, we're laughing at you on your trip to the penitentiary.

And then the big sister, Olivia, making it even more clear. Is the panel with me, Steve? Yeah, they're with me. Okay. Back with me now. Phil Holloway, Howard Bloom, and also Matt Murphy has joined us as well. Guys, that was extraordinary. Phil, I'll start with you. Yeah. You know, Megan, I posted in response to something you posted on X during that, that that statement by the sister is just the most powerful thing that I have ever heard in terms of victim impact statements. And I hope that her words will echo in his despicable brain for the rest of his natural life because look, he doesn't have to sit there in prison

and worry about ever facing the firing squad in Idaho, but hopefully she has given him something to think about, and I hope that it haunts him for all of his days. All of these speakers did a very good job so far in expressing to the public what this kind of thing does to families. It shatters families. You bring step parents in and you bring extended family in and it just, the reverberations of

this type of cruel, evil attack just seem to be never ending. But these human beings have come into this courtroom and have expressed to the world now what the impact is of this type of a horrific crime. Even though it's not going to make one difference in the sentence, hopefully it gives this guy something to think about as he rots in prison. It's satisfying to watch whether it changes that sense or not. There's something very satisfying about watching them say those things to him. Howard, the sisters Olivia's remarks must've jumped out to you because of those questions she was asking him. Yes, it was very poignant. It was Old Testament fury. She was just unleashing all her rage.

Though at one point she said, you're afraid to be ordinary. I think really when the people were discussing what they missed most, they missed the ordinary moments with their loved ones that they'll never have again. It was like a scene from the Thornton Wilder play where he comes back and he looks at his family having breakfast, he's in heaven, and he can never have that experience again.

And that's what they're missing. Kohlberger's fate was that he could never be part of that world. He could never be ordinary. It wasn't that he didn't want to be ordinary, he didn't know how to be ordinary. Right. And she went through, Matt Murphy was fascinating, that those recitations, the questions that she asked, seemed to me to be pulled from Brian Kohlberger's questionnaire that he submitted as a PhD student in criminology. It was either as a PhD student or as a master's student at DeSales,

but he submitted that questionnaire for criminals, asking questions like the ones that she posited there, like, why did you choose? And then she said, my sisters, referring to Maddie as her sisters too, detail you what you were thinking and feeling. If memory serves, these are pulled in part directly from his survey.

And then she inserted her own questions, like, where's the second murder weapon you used on Kaylee, which was a brand new fact none of us had ever heard. used on Kayleigh, which was a brand new fact none of us had ever heard. Well, she knows that with the prospect of a statement in allocution looming, he's going to have an opportunity perhaps to answer those questions. So she's calling them out ahead of time, which I think is very, very clever because of course he's not going to answer any of those questions. Another thing that I think was incredibly powerful about that, and we've talked about

this before, Megan, is that when it comes to the personality of the psychopath, and that really is what I think Brian Koberger is, they don't really respond to things like a grandmother's tears or the emotional impact on a mother who's lost her child. They're almost immune from that sort of thing. But when it comes to the narcissism that that is possessed by a lot of psychopaths, he cut deep when and using the language of people in their 20s. He heard all that you're a loser and I day you're basic, you're not profound, you're pathetic. And you're

exactly right. And she obviously spent a lot of time going through his own writings and knew exactly where those exposed nerves were. And I'll tell you what, as I'm listening to that, it was incredibly powerful. I've sat through dozens and dozens and dozens of these things over the years, and that one will stand out because if he listens to anybody, if he's going to go into prison with anybody's words ringing in his head, it is that woman just laying it out. And that last thing that you already hit on,

if you hadn't attacked them in their sleep like a pedophile, and that's something he's got to be concerned about, especially if he ever sees or even sniffs general population, which I don't think you ever will. You know, she is she is raising that the sexual component that we talked about before. And my sister would have kicked your fucking ass. That is he will he'll hear that and he's going to remember those words, I think. It was extra powerful because he obviously this guy has like some seriously deep misogynistic issues.

And so for this young, beautiful woman who he knows would also never have him to stand up there and laugh at him and call him pathetic and a loser and tell him this other woman who he could only subdue because she was sleeping would have kicked his fucking ass, was so powerful. A moment that you, yes, you feel like, while he has no empathy whatsoever for victims, he does have feelings about himself

and his own deep inadequacies. And yes, she knew exactly how to twist the knife, which is, I mean, a perfect, for now, ending to their relationship. Can I add another element to that as well? Again, there was a bit of minor rebellion in that, which I also kind of love. And Judge Hippler handled it perfectly. When somebody gives a victim impact statement, they're not supposed to address the defendant

directly. They're supposed to address the court. So the fact that Mr. Gonzalez and her sister both faced him directly and spoke directly to him, it's kind of pushing the limits of the rules, but that was their opportunity to do it. And I really appreciate the fact that the court did not attempt to correct them on that.

They had their moment. And I mean, look, in the victim rights, the victim impact world, people that have suffered from violent crime. I mean, that woman spoke for a lot of people today. And that was very powerful, I thought. We are right now awaiting the remainder of the Brian Kohlberger sentencing hearing.

We've heard from the families of Maddie Mogin and Kaylee Gonsalves. We have not yet heard from Ethan Chapin's or Zana Cronodal's families. We also heard, and I'll get to this in one second, but in an extraordinary moment from the two surviving roommates, which was shocking. One had her statement read by a friend. One, the one we've been speculating about all along,

Howard Bloom, Dylan Mortenson took to the lectern she sat. She wasn't able to stand. She was, I mean, a wreck, but she spoke about what happened that night. It was remarkable to hear her for the first time. You have to admire her courage. I mean, to be able to do that, to relive that moment publicly, my heart goes out to her

and yet I'm filled with respect for her at the same time. And I know Koberger, or I speculate Koberger must've been staring at her and wondering, he saw her at that moment, he let her live what was going on in his mind. He sat there and he looked, in my opinion, diminished today. We saw him earlier on in the proceedings. He was wearing a suit and tie, his hair was gelled.

He was trying to look like a swaggering figure. Now he looks like, as the sister said, the loser he's become. Yeah, he looks like a convicted felon sitting there in his orange jumpsuit. And Phil, he was almost expressionless for most of the testimonials, though at one point when they were talking about Maddie Mogan, and her family went first, he had his hands on his swivel chair and he was swiveling a little, like swiveling, like a kid boarding class.

And then he stopped and just stared everyone down. He was almost expressionless. When the sister said, sit up, he didn't. He just, he remained motionless. But your thoughts on the fact that, back to my other point, the two surviving roommates took the stand. The first one, Bethany Funk didn't. She had a friend who was featured in this documentary

that I mentioned on Amazon Prime read her statement. This is a very dear friend of all four of the roommates. She got up and read Bethany's statement. And can I, I'm just gonna play part of what she said, because this is the first time we've heard essentially from Bethany Funk, the roommate who was in the basement and didn't hear anything, to whose room Dylan Mortenson ran, eventually through,

at some point that night because she was terrified, explain what her experience was in those hours and why she didn't immediately know something was wrong or call police. Here's her friend reading her statement. Listen. My name is Bethany Funk and I was roommates with Maddie, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan. I not only lost some of my best friends, but I also lost a sister. Never in a million years would I have, would I have thought that something like this

would have happened to my closest friends. When I first woke up that morning, I had no idea what happened. I woke up around seven with a terrible toothache. So I called my dad who is a dentist. He told me to take Advil. So I did. And I went back to sleep. I was still out of it and still didn't know what happened. If I had known, I of course would have called 911 right away. I still carry so much regret and guilt for not knowing what had happened and not calling right away. Even though I understand it wouldn't have changed anything, not even if the paramedics had been right outside the door.

Oh, Phil. Yeah. Look, there's, there's just no amount of counseling or therapy that can, I think, ever bring these survivors, you know, what they've lost. I mean, they have to live the rest of their lives with this guilt. I mean, I don't personally feel that they have anything to be guilty of or to feel guilty about, but we know they do actually feel that way. be guilty of or to feel guilty about, but we know they do actually feel that way.

And this is part of, you know, this is part of what this individual did. He not only ceased the lives of four individuals, he effectively destroyed the lives of these other two, because all of the things that they were working on, all the things that they were dreaming and hoping for, for the future are now gone and all they are left with is this survivor's grief. that they were working on, all the things that they were dreaming and hoping for for the future are now gone, and all they are left with is this survivor's grief. And so to see them have the courage to finally speak out after all this time, you know, hopefully that lets the world sort of understand better the impact of what happens to families and individuals when they're shattered by such violent crime to your point of a moment ago about

the sister telling Kloberger to sit up straight Megan. I thought I saw a little bit of a Smirk on his face. I have to go back and see it, but I think that she did get his attention. I don't know if it was a nervous smirk or if it was some kind of just evil smirk on his face, but I felt like when she told him to sit up straight, I felt like she did get his attention. He does sit there without emotion and without remorse, which goes to the point that I've been making for all this time is that the death penalty should still be on the table for him because there's no value to remaining, uh, in a world with him living in it.

Um, I think he should have to live in prison every day worrying about the firing squad in Idaho. Will the marksman, uh, hit their mark or will it, is it going to hurt? And he needs to be thinking about those things. But instead, he gets to live the rest of his days, perhaps giving interviews and maybe even writing books. But to be able to sit there all day and just swivel in his chair and just wait for his trip to prison seems like a very anticlimactic end to all of this.

Matt Murphy, it seemed to me that the Consolvas family had made was making a concerted effort to set the table for this guy to be taken out in prison. I mean, if there was a theme from the Consolvas is to me, that was it. Steve Consolvas saying, you picked the wrong families. You picked the wrong state. You picked the wrong group of people. He was basically, cause we, I've heard him on other interviews before saying, this is someone for, picked the wrong group of people. He was basically, because I've heard him on other interviews before saying,

this is someone, he's not one of ours. He's not from Idaho. He came from the East coast and murdered four of ours. And I don't think the prisoners are gonna take too kindly to that. The sister calling him a pedophile. Then the mother saying explicitly, I'm confident that the men in prison

will have their way with you in more ways than one. And reading Kayleigh Gonsalves' little sister's statement, you may have received A's in schools, but in prison you'll be getting big D's, which everyone laughed at and clapped at. I mean, the Gonsalves family got a lot of applause in response to those statements. It seems clear what this family wants to have happen to Brian Kohlberger next.

Well, he'll be in protective custody, no doubt, and they'll do their best to keep him safe. He won't be in general population. But look, 40 plus years is an awful long time, and he will. He's going to have a target on him and he's gonna have to worry about that. And protective custody is, it's not infallible. And on my Rodney Alcala case, he got beat up in the hallway one day

when we're in the middle of trial. They're just taking an inmate past him who had better not spit on him and went off on him. So it is, he will have to look over shoulder and you know, most families- Oh, Matt, forgive me, they're back in session. So hold that thought and we'll get back to court and then back to the panel.

The next family is the family of Zana Curnodle. And first would be Jasmine Curnodle, Z Santa's sister. Thank you. I just want to say thank you to everyone who's been involved in this and just for all the hard work and dedication you guys have put into this. I just want to thank everyone for the support and just my family and friends who've been around through this time. through this time. I went back and forth on whether to speak today because the truth is you don't deserve power over my feelings, my words, or me. Thank you. In the end I realized this moment isn't about you, it's about justice for Xana, Ethan, Kaylee, and Maddie. It's about justice for Xana Ethan Kaylee and Maddie it's about honoring the beautiful beautiful people they were and still are in God's eyes on November 13th 2020 2022 piece of my heart was ripped away there's no way to

ever fully describe the weight of losing my sister my best friend no sentence or punishment will ever come close to the justice Zana Ethan Kaylee and Maddie deserve Zana was everyone's best friend she was the car she was kind she was funny she was a gift to each person she was able to make an impact on Zana was someone I turned to when I needed direction or advice. Although I am her older sister, I often found myself looking up to her. She had a radiant energy that everyone loved and she always knew the right way to approach a problem. She knew how precious and special life was and she truly did live every day to the fullest.

Yet her story was cut short by an act of evil. I believe in a God whose justice is not bound by this courtroom. I find peace knowing that judgment ultimately belongs to him. For your sake, I hope one day you feel the full weight of what you did. I hope you take accountability. I hope you truly experience the guilt and you surrender yourself to Jesus Christ because no punishment on this earth can ever compare to the isolation and pain of eternal separation from God. Zana deserved more, they all did, but I come here to say this, I am strong, I am brave, I'm a fighter just like Zanna and

you don't get to control how I move forward or what I believe, I walk with the comfort of knowing I will see my sister again. Zanna didn't get the future she deserved. She won't be the maid of honor at my wedding. The cool aunt to my future children. I'll never hear her laugh or see her light up a room ever again, but I will carry her with me for the rest of my life. I will live in her honor, fight to be the best kind of woman and someone she's proud of to make sure the world never forgets who she was. Zanna's story doesn't end with what was taken from her. It lives through the love

she gave, the people she touched, and the legacy or family will protect. Her light still shines and her voice will echo louder than this pain. You didn't take that for muscle never well. Thank you. I just want to say for start I'm Zana's dad, Jeff Cronodal. It's been a hard road down, you know, because she's gone. And I want to thank everybody and their families that's I'm not sure if she's going to be able to come back.

Because she's gone. And I want to thank everybody under their families is speaking so far spoke about things. I agree with everything they have to say it all comes back to a lot of the same things that I've had to deal with and

we as a family had to deal And that brings me, you know, a basis of what I'm talking about a little bit is on my way up here, flying up here on the plane and about halfway through the flight, this little girl calling out for her dad, dad, dad, dad. And then in my mind, I was kind of half asleep, it was dark on the plane. I heard Zanna calling out for me like she did, you know, back when she was little, five years old. And those times were hard. It was chaotic, but we always had something to work toward that was in a positive direction compared to right now, which is necessarily not as positive as that for sure. I miss Zana a lot. My life's been changed.

And Zana had a great impact on me. And the impact was when she was gone, I realized how important she was and what she really did for me, influenced me, was way beyond what I ever thought. She'd call me up on the weekends, check on me, see who's with me. She's like accountability to her youngest daughter. And that really made a big difference and made me really think about things and what what it's all about, you know, that's that's the things that I miss most is those calls on the weekends and the calls that live and I was going on. You want to meet my friend, you know, whoever she was couple of her friends, I need them them, talk to them.

And she always did that. And it was pretty cool, pretty cool. I really miss that. And she made a big impact on me, on other people, her family, but the impact that she made is so extensive on what happened here. And it goes so far, people from everywhere in the world, you know, are following things and Zana has made a difference in their lives. So, you know, countless people told me that they might

not even know her. They never knew anything about her. This is what they see. And they just are. They just love her and say how they wish she could have been their friend. You know, could have been their friend could could hung out and it's like, this is this is the blessing, you know, so the whole kid was and definitely was a big, big blessing in my life. And so was Jasmine. Basically, we worked hard to do the things we did is that through the times they were growing up through those times times I realized that I wanted both of them to graduate college and that'd be the ultimate thing for them to do to prepare for the world.

Then it then it came back to me, Xanadu didn't get to finish college. He had it all figured out. Quick break. We'll be right back with ongoing coverage of the sentencing hearing of Brian Kohlberger, confessed killer of the Idaho Four. What does feeling safe at home really mean to you? Having good locks, maybe an alarm that would, you know, make a lot of noise if someone actually broke in. But true security actually takes more. Takes a system that works to prevent the break-in in the first place, that violation of your space from ever happening.

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Get your first three months for free. Go to siriusxm.com slash mkshow to subscribe and get three months free. That's siriusxm.com slash slash MK Show and get three months free. Offer details apply. So part that really counted is those memories. And those are what I have left. The memories with her and the ones I can make with her and the life that I can go on with now,

which is what she wants. And I say that in presence since, cause that's what she wants. Cause I've been told that, you know, I've had countless ways that she's out there and has a way to communicate, which I'm very grateful for. to communicate, which I'm very grateful for. That goes to say that the impact of what happened to them, all four kids, goes so much further than just not me, the parents, the families, the community.

It goes so far because a lot of kids, you know, in the colleges, just for an example, they locked their doors. Now the door wasn't locked in the back, you know, Penn State or wherever it was. All the colleges I know that I've heard, they all locked their doors now. So maybe the impact that it's gonna make is gonna help out and maybe protect some people. Having this outreach and having the influence of what these kids, what happened to these kids did.

All I know is I was seven miles away when it happened and I had a, she wasn't feeling that good. It's 1130 and I almost went over to says and us to say and I would have been sitting right there that couch. And you have to deal with me so they would have chance and I regret that I regret not going. But the reason why didn't is because as said don't be drinking and driving. That rental car don't be drinking and driving. You got the rental car, don't be drinking and driving,

you know, the week before that. So she was, she would have been mad at me to do that. But I really wish I would have drunk and drove, you know? Because they would have had a chance, all four of them. At this point, I just have to go on. I'm not sure if I can say that . At this point, I just have to go on.

We're going with everything. And make things better in my life. That's what it's all about. Closure and things. And the part that we miss is Santa, her influence, her smile, the things that she did. And we have the memories left, the great memories. And she just wants us to make more memories.

That's all I got. Thank you for your words and your courage and pleasure pleasure family. Next, Kim Kernodle would like to address the court. Thank you. Thank you, your honor. My name is Kim Cronodalle I am Zana's aunt I was very blessed to have her in my life and our family and I thought I had everything in my head what I wanted to say but it kind of went out and I try I'm always looking for the positive thing because evil, hate can destroy people and that's what it started doing with our family.

It created anger with our family members and then I had to look. Cassandra was everything that the media, her friends said. She was that fun, loving, high-spirited, beautiful person. And I no longer get to get my nails done with her, have lunch with her. Sorry. But how I look at it now is this tragedy, this horrible tragedy on all of our, the four children has brought us closer you united us with your actions we're united now and we're stronger than ever we have family and friends now that we never knew we had and you know this is probably gonna bother everybody, but Brian, I'm here today to tell you I have forgiven you.

Because I no longer could live with that hate in my heart. And for me to become a better person, I have forgiven you. And anytime you wanna talk and tell me what happened, get my number, I'm here no judgment Because I do have answers or questions that I want you to answer And I'm here. I'll be that one that'll listen to you, okay? Thank you honor. Thank you very much My name is Stratton control, andble and I'm Zanna's uncle,

Jeff's brother. Sitting here today listening to all the stories and feelings and feeling the pain from everybody is a pretty powerful thing. Each time a statement was read, it sorta would tug into my center core as I felt everybody's anguish. And Dana meant a lot to us,

and we loved her very much. But I started thinking about instead of rehashing everything that everybody else has talked about, I wanted to direct it in another direction toward Brian and what he's done to his family, his parents, his siblings, his friends, his universe. He has contaminated, tainted their family name, and pretty much made a horrible, miserable thing to be ever related to him. And I know that that's what he has to live with and that has to be his pain.

And that's all I have to say. Thank you. Next your honor, I believe Randy Davis, stepfather to Santa Cronota, would like to address the court. Hi, my name's Randy, stepdad of Zana. I just feel the same way we all do. We're all of us are united because of something that happened, and I'm grateful to know and

have met some new family because of this awful event. But this is probably the last time we're all going to be in the same room together. Let's be real so I can say I love you all and I feel your pain. And just God bless us all, you know? Just get through it. I had stuff wrote up, it was probably best I didn't read it out. Probably get kicked out of here, so. You know, I'll share one thing to you guys, not to you, with Zanna.

So I was working in North Dakota and came home and Jazzy and Zanna had taken our son Elijah and put him in a dress makeup and it was it was awful you know I was like I just I don't know she was funny I told her she'd be a in the movies and be somebody great one day like that and now she is just above us as an angel with all the other beautiful kids so let's hold that to our hearts. Because this evil thing is not going to take nothing from us. You. Man, I don't know what my limits are here. But I'm really struggling, dude. I am struggling. So I want to, I want to welcome back to the Megyn Kelly show. We're

listening here to Xana Cronotl's Stepdad Randy. I'm not I believe I love God I wouldn't take your life that's up to him but I guarantee you you are weak. God I would just give a moment man five minutes out the woods. Oh man you're gonna go to hell. I know people believe in other stuff. You're evil. There's no place for you in heaven. You took our children. You are gonna suffer, man.

I'm shaking, so I wanna reach out to you, but I just, I hope you feel my energy, okay? Go to hell. Next is Karen Northington, Santa's mother. I'm Karen Northington. I am Zana Kernodle's mother. This letter is to you really, but it's for my daughter who was murdered by you. Today I stand before you, the man who is responsible for murdering my beautiful daughter, Santa Kernodle. My daughter was beautiful both inside and out. She possessed love for those around her and had a light so bright it will live on forever in our hearts. She brought joy and laughter to her friends, her family,

and anyone in her presence. Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, now has her in his loving arms in heaven, where she can never be harmed ever again for eternity. Because of her, I came to know my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Because of her, many will come to Christ. It is Christ who lives in me that has given me the strength to forgive you. It was of no power of my own. In return, the Lord has filled me with joy, hope, and peace

that surpasses all understanding. Jesus has allowed me to forgive you for murdering my daughter without you even being sorry or asking for this. This is only possible because He who lives in me is greater than any evil in this world. For God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. I do not fear you or even let you rent space in my head anymore. This forgiveness has released me from any and all evil you have inflicted on me and my family. It has allowed me to let our Lord deal with you. You have accepted a deal that will prevent you from receiving the death penalty. Nothing man can do to you can ever compare to the wrath of God. Inevitably, you will stand before our Lord and will have to answer to Him over the sins you have committed in murdering our children.

I pray you come to the end of yourself before that day. Whether you like it or not, heaven is for real and so is hell. The innocent life of Zana that you stole from myself and my family and the destruction of this and the destruction it has caused. I am washing my hands of you and turning you over to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ whom vengeance belongs to. In closing, I want to read a passage from the Bible, Ephesians 6, King James Version. Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and then in the power of his might. Put on the whole armor of God that ye may be able to withstand the wiles of the devil, for we wrestle not

against flesh and blood. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day that ye may be able to stand in the evil day I'm not going to share memories of Xana or anymore of the goodness of her with you because I do not want that to be in your head. I don't want it to be in your head. You don't deserve that. You don't deserve our good memories that we have. I do pray for you. I pray that you come to the end of

yourself. I pray that before this life is over that you ask our Lord and Savior in your heart and to forgive you. I do pray for that but after today I wash my hands of you and you are no longer a thing. Thank you. Thank you. I Right steak argue right stake argue thank you just as a housekeeping matter start there will be the restitution. Just as a housekeeping matter to start, there will be the issue of restitution.

That is the documentation being gathered and we ask the court to defer that for 30 days so we can present it in an order your honor. I think it's necessary and appropriate to share for everyone here including the court, the background that brings us in front of your honor today for these proceedings. As the record reflects, and as everybody in this courtroom knows, the defendant has pleaded guilty to all five counts charged in the indictment. Under oath before Your Honor, he has admitted that the charges against him are true. He has reassured the court that he has not been coerced or threatened to make those admissions.

And Your Honor did an extraordinary job in taking the pleas back on July 2nd. We appreciate the court's discipline and insight. The defendant has also waved appeal on the multitude of rulings from this court and your honor's predecessor in Laetaw County on dozens of literally dozens of motions seeking to dismiss the case, seeking to control or limit evidence, seeking to offer evidence that would not be appropriate. And we appreciate the court's consistent rulings based on the law, based on the facts.

based on the facts. As your honor will recall on June 18th, it's just really not that long ago, we appeared before this court for arguments on what became the defendant's final motions to this court. Motion where they wanted to offer evidence suggesting that other people were responsible for the defendant's actions. And the motion seeking essentially an indefinite continuance of the trial. It was readily apparent to all of us in the courtroom from your honors comments that those motions were not going to be granted. So we returned to Moscow and continued with what we've been working on for months in

preparation for trial. We had no qualms about going to trial if trial was what was necessary and appropriate. The following week after we were in court, we were approached by the defense with an inquiry about a possible plea. And I can tell the court this is the first suggestion ever that there was any consideration because indeed the defense had maintained from the beginning that Mr. Coburger, the defendant, was factually innocent. It's clear that the reality of the evidence and the case that had been investigated and prepared and that we were ready to present in court

became a reality. present in court became a reality. Our reaction among other things was to reach out to all the families and in fact later that week on Thursday and Friday of that last week of June we met with representatives by teams virtual meetings with representatives of all the families. And we talked about the status of the case, and the upcoming trial, and things that related to the trial. And we also let them know that there had been an inquiry about whether there might be an offer for a plea.

And we asked the family members for their thoughts and feelings. And we asked the family members for their thoughts and feelings. And they were candid. And they have been candid since, and we respect that. And we understand, recognize, and acknowledge that there was a difference of opinion among representatives of the different families.

We understand that. One of the challenges of this case, one of the unique things about this case is we have multiple victims, each unique unto themselves, their families and friends unique unto themselves, and all of them entitled to their opinions, all of them entitled to their opinions, all of them entitled to their thoughts.

Over the following weekend, our prosecution team, very skilled attorneys who were personally as well as professionally deeply invested in this case met. And we talked and the decision was reached to start with were there to be any sort of plea offer or discussion, there's only one possibility. And that would be for the defendant to plead guilty straight up to all charges. There would be no bargaining about counts. There would be no bargaining about counts. There would be no bargaining about reduced sentences.

And so we made the proposal to the defense that as the defendant was willing to plead guilty upfront to all five counts as charged and waive appeal of the court's myriad decisions during the past two and a half plus years on all these motions that would have consumed years if not decades of time in the future. By the end of the weekend we were notified the defendant was prepared to plead guilty as charged and factually acknowledged his responsibility in court for these horrible crimes. Obviously those discussions and negotiations were confidential and as your Honor noted, I believe that was necessarily so because if the defendant had decided not to plead guilty, it would have been devastating

to our jury pool for there to be public information that there had been even consideration by either party to a plea resolution. And protecting the perspective integrity of trial after so many years was paramount. So at the end of the weekend came, we notified the victims families of what had occurred. We notified the victims' families of what had occurred. We recognize, I recognize and acknowledge personally, and I respect the fact that of these fine, suffering people here, not everybody agreed

with the decision we make. I accept that. It's my responsibility to end. I recognize that that's the duty of the office that I hold. So now, it is time for the judicial system to impose final judgment and close the door on this chapter of these tragedies. As the court is aware by the agreement of the parties is the state's prayer. Perhaps have the Elmo, please turn it on. Thank you.

Then on count one, the felony burglary, the court sends the defendant to the maximum period of 10 years fixed in custody of the Idaho Department of Correction. Then on count two, that the court sentence the defendant to fixed life for the murder, Maddie Mogan. On count three, that the court sentence the defendant to fixed life for the murder of Santa Cronovo? On count five, did the court sentenced the defendant to fixed life for the murder of Ethan Chapin.

And the state further prays that these sentences be ordered to run consecutively back to back, not at the same time, to recognize and respect the unique individuality of each of these beautiful young people whose lives were taken brutally and for no reason. And hopefully now, as we have heard earlier this morning, it is time to afford the families and the friends and the community and the state of Idaho and the nation and the world to move forward. We can't undo and we can never undo the horror of what occurred on the early morning hours of November 13th, 2022 at 1122 King Street in Moscow, Idaho. For a long time, the presiding district judge in Laetaw County was John Stegner, who eventually became a member and a justice of the Idaho Supreme Court. And Judge Justice Stegner often observed that even God cannot change the past. But

everyone in this room has the ability to take themselves forward and we want the judicial system to afford them the opportunity today to do that. From today forward, our memories should be focused on these innocent victims whose lives were taken, on their families, on their friends, on the community. lives were taken on their families, on their friends, on the community. The court has heard discussion talk today, reminisces today about a special family that our victims shared, not just their natural legal and biological families, not just their university family within their sororities, for example, but this family. But this family. This is a picture taken on November 12th, 2022 of a special family of 1122 King Road. And you can see all six of these dynamic, vibrant, loving, special, innocent faces taken together just across the street from their residence.

And barely 12 hours before four of them would be brutally murdered in their sleep. They've been described consistently as being bright, caring, vivacious, with futures we can only imagine now. with futures we can only imagine now. But they were, and they remain, a special family that I think we should all recognize and appreciate. So it's time to move forward. to move forward. There have been a number of statements directed specifically at the defendant today. I have one last thought. After your honor imposes judgment and sentences the defendant to spend the rest of his life in prison. In other words, sentence the defendant to die in prison.

He's gonna stand up in the belly chains and leg irons that he's wearing today. And he's gonna be escorted into the custody of the Idaho Department of Correction and the door will close behind him forever. That is the closure that we seek that all of these people, these loving friends and family, deserve so we can move forward. Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you.

All right. Does defense have evidence to present today? No evidence. All right. Does defense wish to make argument today? Governor, we do not wish to make argument. Mr. Koberger, along with his legal team, is prepared to report to Interjudgment. the public. Mr. Koberger, you have an opportunity to make a

statement if you wish to. I respectfully decline. Thank you. I want to thank you for your for the professionalism that they've exhibited throughout this case. It's been my great honor to preside in this case and to help bring to the extent possible some resolution and hopefully justice to this case. During the quiet morning hours of November 13, 2022, a faceless coward breached the tranquility of six beautiful young people and senselessly slaughtered them, four of them. the police officers. Four of them. Who committed this unspeakable

evil was unknown for several weeks, but due to the killer's incompetence and outstanding police work by numerous local, state and federal law enforcement agencies. The person that slithered through that sliding glass door at 1122 King Road now stands the the the

the the the the the the the the

the the the the the the the the

the the the the the the the greatest tragedy that can be inflicted upon a person. Parents who took their children to college in a truck filled with moving boxes had to bring them home in hearses lined with coffins. The loss this killer inflicted was not just the death of these people's children, siblings, grandchildren, as we've heard today. It has ripped a hole in their soul, destroying a special part of their very essence.

Any person who is a parent defines themselves foremost as such. It is their existence and purpose of being. the victims of the crime. And it has been stolen from the way in which they have handled their loss. Whether that be in private morning removed as far as possible from this media circus or in front of a camera demanding retribution with the loudest megaphone. I've listened

intently to the stories and pain that have been shared today with great awe at the courage and resilience of the surviving I am honored to be here today with great awe at the courage and resilience of the surviving family members of those wonderful children. I've listened also to the

surviving roommates both in person and through their friends. And I can't think of how frankly courageous they have been despite the hell that they have faced by uncaring people who have come up with all kinds of crazy theories about two kids simply being kids. The parents, siblings and other family members who have spoken today are designated as victims in our legal system. But going forward, I hope that they can shed that label as it gives too much power to the evil that condemned them to that role.

They are and should be known as survivors, fighters, and foremost as witnesses to the the lives of the victims of the lives of the people who lives are never minimized and that the love they shared, the light that they shined on to others is forever celebrated. As we sit here today this case is ending and we are now certain who committed these unspeakable acts of evil but we don't know and what we may never know is why. I share the desire the defendant. The question that we need to know is why. I share the desire expressed by others to understand the why. But upon reflection, it seems

to me, and this is just my own opinion, that by continuing to focus on why, we continue to give Mr. Koberger relevance. We give him agency and We give him to speak, which legally I cannot, how could anyone ever be assured that what he speaks is the truth? Do we really believe after all of this he's capable of speaking the truth or giving up something of himself to help the very people whose lives he destroyed? Rather, I suspect the so-called reason would be dished out in enticing self-serving and aggrandizing untruthful

bits, leaving people wanting more information, more insight, and thus enhancing even further the power he seeks to hold. Even if we could get truthful insight into his why, I suspect it would not in any way quench one's thirst for actually understanding why in the first instance. Because there is no reason for these crimes that could approach anything resembling rationality. No conceivable reason could make any sense. And in the end, the more we struggle to seek explanation for the unexplainable, the more we try to extract a reason, the more power and more we struggle to seek explanation for the unexplainable, the more we try to extract a reason,

the more power and control we give to him. In my view, the time has now come to end Mr. Kohlberger's 15 minutes of fame. It's time that he be consigned to the ignominy and isolation of perpetual incarceration. I know there has been concern about him collaborating on books or movies or other media projects, and I truly hope that someone does not stoop to affording him

this spotlight that he desires in the name of clicks, royalties, or profits. While criminal behaviorists should study him away from the spotlight in an attempt to prevent other would-be the public eye. He was a criminal. Well, criminal behavior lists should study him away from the spotlight in an attempt to prevent other would be killers from acting on their

worst impulses. There should be no need for that to spill over into the public eye. The great Idaho jurist Edward Lodge was known for trying to find something positive about every person he ever sentenced. And with over a half a century as a trial judge, that was a lot of people. This was often challenging. And I recall in one case he said that the best he could come up

with was the defendant had good penmanship. Truth be told, I'm unable to come up with anything redeeming about Mr. Koberger because his grotesque acts of evil have buried and hidden anything that might have been good or intrinsically human about him. His actions have made him the worst of the worst. Even in pleading guilty, he's giving nothing hinting of remorse or redemption, nothing suggesting even a recognition or understanding, let alone regret for the pain that he has caused.

And therefore I will not attempt to speak about him further other than to simply sentence him so that he is forever removed from civilized society. And accordingly, based upon his conduct and based upon the record before this court, recognizing the standards that govern this court's the court. I hereby sentence Mr. Kohlberger as follows. On count one, burglary, 10 years fixed, zero years indeterminate.

I also impose a fine of $50,000. Count two, first degree murder of Madison Mogul, $50,000. I hereby sentence Mr. Kohlberger as follows. On count one, burglary, 10 years defendant of zero years indeterminate. I also impose a fine of $50,000. Count two, first degree murder of Madison Moggan. I sentence the defendant to a fixed term

of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. A fine of $50,000. And a civil penalty of $5,000 payable to the family of the victim. On count three, for first degree murder of Kayleigh Gonsalves, I sentenced the defendant to a fixed term of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, a fine of $50,000 and a civil penalty of $5,000 payable to the victim of the family or to the

family of the victim. Pardon me. On count four, for the first degree murder of Zana Kernodle, I sentenced the defendant to a fixed term of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole, a fine of $50,000, and a civil penalty of $5,000 payable to the family of the victim. On count five, for the first degree murder of Ethan Chapin, I sentenced the defendant. On count five for the first degree murder of Ethan Chapin, I sentenced the defendant to a fixed term of life imprisonment without the

possibility of parole, a fine of $50,000, and a civil penalty of $5,000 payable to the family of the victim. The sentences on counts one, two, three, four, and five shall run consecutively to one another. Restitution will be left open for 60 days. Defendant will be required to submit a DNA sample and a right thumb print petition to the Department

of Corrections and comply with the DNA Database Act. I remand the defendant to the custody of the Atto State Board of Corrections for to be imprisoned in an appropriate facility and execution of the sentence where he will remain until he dies. Though you've waived your right to appeal, you do have a right to file a notice of appeal, and any such appeal must be filed within 42 days the date of the written judgment,

which will be entered shortly hereafter. Though the appeal you should be aware may be deemed a violation of the plea agreement and so I certainly suggest you discuss that with counsel if that is your desire. I ask the media and public present to allow the families to be escorted out first before they leave. Again, thank you to everyone for your stories today. I am strengthened by them and I am encouraged by your humanity and strength. God bless you.

We are adjourned. Incredible day in court in Boise, Idaho, not far from where these crimes were committed. In Moscow, Idaho, were four college students with everything in front of them. Happy lives, beautiful friendships, boyfriends, girlfriends, families who love them. Went to college one day, and for some reason, as the judge points out, that we'll never fully understand how their lives snuffed out at 412 in the morning by that thing sitting there at council stable wearing orange, Brian Kohlberger. He didn't speak at all except for the one line when the court said, Mr. Kohlberger, do you wish to make a statement?

And like the good little schoolboy, he said, I respectfully decline. Still looking for some sort of pat on the top of the head, still acting like the PhD student who could get an A for his classroom behavior and trying to fool us into thinking he's respectful in any way. Here's that moment. All right, Mr. Kohlberger, you have an opportunity to make a statement if you wish to, I take it you are declining. I respectfully decline.

What's that about? What does he think he's fooling? What a joke this man is. I use that term very loosely. The judge sentencing him as expected to the maximum on all counts. 10 years in prison on the burglary count. Life without, well, he didn't say without parole.

Talk to Matt about that in a minute. But life for Maddie, life for Kaylee, life for Zana, life for Ethan to run consecutively, meaning one after the other, along with $50,000 in fines for each victim and a $5,000 civil penalty to the family. This is the end, technically, guys. My panel's back with me, Phil Holloway, Howard Bloom, and Matt Murphy.

This is the end. I don't know. It feels, I guess it feels unsatisfying. Matt, you've been through this so many times. Does it always feel unsatisfying? Well, it's always a little anticlimactic when there's a plea, Megan. I think that if this was a sentencing after a jury trial, we might feel a little bit different,

because we would have really seen the exhaustion of all the evidence that was available. We would have seen and heard every detail of this investigation. And I just, again, I've said it before, but kudos to the police here. They really are the heroes on this, from the local police department, to the state troopers of Idaho to the FBI, they really did an outstanding job. And I hope people remember that the only reason why we had the sensing is because of the hard work of those men and women. And I was really grateful to see the family members acknowledge them in that even

even Mr. Gonzalez, as angry as he was, he he gave a shout out to the police, which I thought was really dignified. But I'm just, I'm struck by this judge. It's important for people to remember that all judges are not created equal. And this Judge Hippler did a fantastic job. I thought that his comments were exactly on point. And I think that he really spoke to all of us when he said, you know, the more we wonder why in something that he would never tell the truth on and is really unexplainable anyway,

the more we continue to give him power. Now everybody wants to know why because we want to prevent it. We want to see it coming. We want to know what to look for to prevent the next Brian Koberger. But I thought that he was outstanding. And remember, he did not have to impose that.

This was discretionary with the court. That was one of my criticisms of Thompson at the beginning. He surrendered that power to sentence to the they call it fixed life in Idaho, which is life without possibility of parole. The court imposed that upon its own discretion. So hats off to the court. I thought that judge really did an outstanding job today and he did exactly the right thing.

And I thought his comments are something that we should all think about. It was, it was a new perspective setter because we're all so unsatisfied with him not having to explain why, but it was a good reminder of like, who cares? Who could it what could he possibly say that would satisfy any of us? You know this this cretin this this human excrement sitting there I don't know what happened to him, but he doesn't seem human to me. He seems other

Worldly and I don't mean that in a complimentary way. He just seems like something Frankly that needs to be snuffed out But the next best thing, Howard, is to have him rot in prison for the rest of his life. And I'm picturing the door closing behind him, as the judge said. I'm from the set that finds this deeply unsatisfying. There were two diametrically opposed positions

presented today. One was by the Gonsalves family that raised questions, specific questions they wanted answers. The judge in effect said, let's move on. He said that literally. Let's move on. We can forget about it. Well, I think it's too soon to forget about it. Yes, we'll never know a rational reason why he did it, but there still are other questions remaining. Where is the knife? How did he cover up his tracks? I would like more answers.

I think the people of Idaho, the families, and all of us, the public, should have presented with more answers. You know, I did think it was a little odd, Phil, that the prosecutor, Bill Thompson, spent a good chunk of his closing remarks trying to talk about how he notified the families of the pending plea. It was like, he was trying to rehabilitate himself

in response to Steve Goncalves' complaints about the way the plea was handled. I just thought that was totally inappropriate. It reminded me of the judge at when Kohlberger, you know, pleaded guilty, making it all about the phone calls he'd received from people who are out like, stop making it about yourself. This isn't about you rehabbing you. You know, I've been pretty critical about this prosecution team, not for the

quality of the case they put together. Because as others have correctly mentioned, they did a great job along with the law enforcement who investigated this case. But from a PR perspective, I think that they really dropped the ball. And to see an extension of that today, it was almost like you saw a little bit of grandstanding. This is not a, there's no jury present. It's just a judge. This is a non-jury proceeding. So it was a bit over the top in terms of theatrics.

And as you mentioned, it seemed to be aimed at rehabilitating their own image for those of us in the public who are being somewhat critical. They, in my view, should have had all of the families in agreement on this plea deal or there would be no deal. That's just my opinion. That's how I would have played it if I had been the prosecutor because that would have perhaps left us with perhaps some little bit more increased measure of satisfaction. We're all left unsatisfied right now. Think about how the families must feel as they're leaving the courthouse.

But had there been a trial and a sentencing hearing with, um, evidence and aggravation, we might have known a lot more because as we go forward today, we're all left with these lingering questions of why, why did this have to happen? Why did it happen? Um, and because I think the decisions the prosecutor made, we're going to be left with these answers. And let me just point this one thing out. This court today rendered a judgment. There can be a

judgment in any case. But when we speak of what justice is, was justice delivered? You know, justice is one of those words that's incapable of being defined, and it's in the eye of the beholder. But I would submit that there is no amount of justice, whatever it may be, that can possibly apply to this case, because the magnitude of the destruction, not only of the individual's lives who are taken, but the destruction that is left in the wake of this evil, evil, evil act is not capable of receiving adequate justice in my view. So there's, I think, always going to be some measure

of dissatisfaction because justice just can't address this kind of evil. That's so well said. It's just, it captures what I'm feeling right now. When I listened to, for example, Kaylee's sister speak, I felt like, yes, this is what I want. I wanna hear him humiliated. I'm enjoying this, that piece,

but everything else has just left me with this empty feeling of like, why? Not demanding an explanation, but just the human evil, the evil that walks amongst us as human beings and the snuffing out of these four lives with nothing but promise in front of them. And Steve Goncalves was right. They did a very good job of those families of getting out the videos of those four kids and helping us get to know them, Howard, and fall in love with the four of them and their huge thousand watt smiles

and the joy they clearly felt on the Idaho campus and the football games they celebrated and the dance parties, the one sister mentioned, like these were jubilant, really happy, lovely kids, just American kids trying to get an education and have a good time. And he resented it without him saying anything. We know you've written about it.

He couldn't stand their happiness. I mean, Steve, to my mind, is a hero throughout this whole thing. He refused to just move on. Everyone else, the judge, the prosecutor, they kept on repeating that phrase, it's time to move on. It's time to move on, it's time to move on. Well, the reality is none of these families are ever going to be able to move on. I don't think the town of Moscow will be able to move on.

And I think we should have been given some answers. You know, the sister Olivia raised the questions, the questions were, as you pointed out, very similar to the questions Colbert included in his master's dissertation that he distributed in prisons. He should be asked those questions. We should be getting those answers. That's the other thing. The judge is like, well, I really hope no journalist or publishing house gives him the

opportunity to give an interview or write a book. First of all, he's not allowed to make money on a book. That's illegal. But that's not to say, I guess, one couldn't be published and where he wouldn't get paid. And he certainly is going to get the knock on the door from journalists up and down the spectrum and Catherine Rumsfeld or whatever her last name,

or unless I'm forgetting her last name. Thank you, Ramsland. His former master's professor at DeSales University has said she'd like to study him. He'll love all of that. Look, that's just human nature. People wanna study serial killers. It's a natural thing we wanna understand.

But I will say to this Judge Hippler, you know what would have made it slightly less likely is if your DA required him to really cop to the crime and explain himself at this sentencing hearing, Matt. Like him allowing this defendant to remain an enigma, to not say anything is only going to make the press and everyone else more interested in him. Yeah. I want to add onto that a little bit, Megan.

And I want to be fair here because it's a tough job. You're the elected DA, you got a lot going on, you have the families. There are good reasons. Look when it comes to appellate issues, things like that, all of that is real and it gives some finality. I hate the word closure. He used it. I think that's a trope.

These families, like Howard pointed out There's no closure for them. But so that said I want to be fair to the prosecutor However, that little speech that he gave That performative aspect of that first of all the seminal case in the United States Okay things to be out of Idaho to Sonia Sotomayor 2019 opinion from the United States Supreme Court called Garza versus Idaho. See, Thompson made this big point of saying he waived his appellate rights.

The case in the United States is out of Idaho that says you can't actually ever waive your appellate rights. Okay, so that's not real. And it is the law that he can still, as the court pointed out at the end, you got 42 days to file your notice of appeal. It might breach the plea because that essentially is a contract, but now it's post sentencing. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see him file notice of appeal, and you can do that. And that's for direct appeal. We still have the entire habeas process, which is another way to

challenge a conviction. And Thompson gave that up with this plea. He did. He did. He knows he did. And look, there's good reasons for good reasons against. I'm not going to fill up here. I wouldn't have given him this deal. You know, definitely cases are hard. That goes with the job. Dealing with family members who disagree, you know, also, that's a part of the job. But another thing that really does disturb me a little bit on this is there's a saying, Megan, so goes California, it goes the rest of the nation. We've all heard that before. There are huge movements and

legislative pushes in the state of California to eliminate LWOP or life without possibility parole as a sentence. 40 years is a long time. And the last time we talked about this, I said, I think he's gonna get a parole hearing one day. And under current Idaho law, he will not. The way the court did this, they call it fixed life. Almost every other state calls it life without possibility parole.

I think it's North Carolina calls it life without mercy. Every state has its own concept. Hold that thought, hold that thought. I wanna hear the end of this, but I'm about to hit a hard break on SiriusXM. I think it's North Carolina calls it life without mercy. Every state has its own concept. Hold that thought, I wanna hear the end of this, but I'm about to hit a hard break on SiriusXM. We'll continue on pod and youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly. SiriusXMers, thank you for tuning in and we'll see you over at YouTube and on pod.

And we're back, Matt, go ahead and finish your thought. And we're back, Matt. Go ahead and finish your thought. The DA's sort of statement that he waived his appellate rights, he did on paper, but it doesn't actually mean anything. He can still appeal. It may be a tougher appellate road. He can still do a direct appeal. He just has to accuse his defense lawyers of ineffective assistance to counsel.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that. And then of course, 40 years is an awful long time for them to get an opportunity to switch the law. And look, the Menendez brothers got life without possibility parole in California. And we know what just happened there. There've been significant legislative actions that allow people with life without possibility parole sentences in other states to now get them.

So that was, he, he stood up. He said that it sounded awful good. However, um, you know, there's a lot more to it and I hope it's the end. I hope him going away and the door closing and all that stuff is, is the end, but it legally, it's really not. Well, can I add, let me add something to that if I can. I'm glad that, um, we're talking about ineffective assistance of counsel. This of course being a sixth amendment right that you have under the US constitution and

each state has their own. All he would really need to do is say, look, we had identified four other people and we were prepared to blame them at trial as being potential the other, the real killer. Okay. But my lawyers talked me out of going forward with the trial, even though I wanted to say that other people committed this crime. And then you've got a- That could really happen. Just to interrupt you for one quick second, that really could happen as Howard was reporting on this, leading up to the trial that Ann Taylor was jumping up and down, seemingly wanting him to

plead this out. And Kohlberger, there was talk about whether she'd have to try to get him declared incompetent or do something around his alleged autism to try to force this plea deal on him. Keep going, Phil. Yeah. So he you know, so he can raise this issue on collateral attack on what we call a habeas kind of an appeal. And he's not essentially, I think, breaching the plea deal because he's not necessarily appealing any of the pretrial rulings made in the case. He's saying that my rights were violated today during this sentencing process because my lawyers didn't do their job. Now that's not saying, I'm not saying that's the case necessarily, but that's

the argument that could be made. So for the prosecutor to sit there and say for everybody's benefit, I guess that there's just not going to be any appeal was a little bit disingenuous and it certainly doesn't reflect the law that exists in the United States, as was correctly pointed out. And it also, you know, just to wrap up this point, if you're going to file a motion saying to the judge, look, we want to blame three or four or five other people for this and we've got some evidence of it, you better have really, really good evidence because when you, when that motion fails and then you're on the, the eve of trial

and your client figures out, okay, the limelight is over, it's time to put up or shut up and we're at the foot of the cross, you looked like a fool for bringing this motion saying we've got evidence that four or five other people may have been the guilty party here. Uh, and then you just kind of immediately switched gear to admit under oath that no, uh, this individual client did in fact, commit this crime exactly as alleged. So I'm like, why do you even try to go down that road unless you've got really, really solid evidence of it?

I think it's too kind to say you look like a fool. I mean, that's something pernicious and malicious. They put four names into that document. The document and the motion has been redacted, but someday this might very well come out. Those four people we branded as life, as possible suspects, possible killers, and yet the judge said there's no evidence. That was a very pernicious act on the part of Ann Taylor. I think it's unforgivable. Well, let me add to that just one other point. You heard a lot of people reference it.

The DA referenced it. The judge referenced it. Some of the family members mentioned the media attention. And in this very interesting Amazon Prime documentary on this case that just hit, forgive me, I can't remember the name of it. It's like, it's about the Idaho Four, but it's on Amazon Prime right now.

One Night in Idaho, thank you, my team. They talk a lot about the online crime sleuth community and how rabid they've been, and frankly, irresponsible, some have really been in reporting on this case and pointing the finger at anyone and everyone and sort of dragging innocent young men who are just standing there

into this case as alleged suspects and terrorizing the other roommates and some of the friends. And like the one guy who was just the sober driver at the local fraternity where Ethan Chapins, he was, I think he was a member there, his name was dragged through the mud and so on. So they did make a point about, you know,

all of those media people and how irresponsible they were. I mean, I think that's a legitimate point. I can't remember why I'm raising this, but, oh, that's why, that's why, because now, Ann Taylor, she puts in a document these four other names that eventually is gonna go out there. And what do you think that online community, the ones who are irresponsible, they're not all,

is gonna do with those names? I literally am still getting texts from random people, some I know, some I know, rejecting this telling me he either didn't do it or he didn't do it alone. I mean, these are smart people who just aren't accepting this because of Ann Taylor. You're right, Howard. Those four people are about to get their names dragged through the mud even more because she irresponsibly threw them out there. Go ahead, Howard, and then I'll go to you, Howard. Those four people are about to get their names dragged through the mud even more because she irresponsibly threw them out there. Go ahead, Howard, and then I'll go to you, Matt.

Well, I mean, as a journalist, you don't really move on. I mean, I listened to the proceedings today and I heard one thing, one thing that I never heard before, that there was a weapon used on Kelly. Now, did he bring- Two weapons. It was a knife and then he had something else in his hand, I think the sister said. She said, what was the second weapon?

We heard testimony about a vacuum cleaner. Dylan had said that a vacuum cleaner, she thought she saw a vacuum cleaner in his hand. Did he bring a vacuum cleaner in? Did he hit her with a vacuum cleaner, savagely beat her? The father said her cheekbones were broken. Is that how he's able to get out without leaving his trail? These are questions I, as a journalist, and I think the Gonzalez family, too, wanted answers.

And I don't know if we should be moving on after three and a half years. Before I toss it to you, Matt, I do want to play a sound bite on that. Steve Gonzalez spoke to Ashley Banfield and did fill in some of the details around what he'd been told about Kaylee's murder. She was on the top floor with Maddie Mogin, believed to be the main target of the attack. Here it is, Sat 1. People so angry at what was happening in that courtroom that they would literally pick up

their phone and call us and say, this is what's on Brian's phone. This is what he was searching. This individual was sexually motivated. I don't care what Thompson said. Coming out of hearings, there would be people who would call you and say, I don't like what's happening in that courtroom. I know what's on his phone. What did you learn from those phone calls without divulging who it was who called? Just weird, weird porn fetishes, but two of the fetishes were in that room.

Drunk, passed out girls and gagging girls. And those are two things that were part of that crime scene for Thompson to say that there was no sexual assault. Of course there wasn't. He didn't have enough time. Somebody came up there. That was additional color. But he also did talk about how it was clear

Kaylee had been beaten. I think that he said her nose had been broken. So clearly there had been some sort of a fight, some sort of an altercation. Go ahead, Matt. Well, I think that that, that hits on exactly what we were discussing last time is the, the use of that word that there was no sexual component.

I think that that was really inappropriate by the DA because you can't get into a co-bringer's head. And we've heard those rumors consistently that Mr. Gonzalez was just talking about there, that there were porn searches that were found on the computers and phones. And I can tell you, maybe four years in sexual assault and 17 in homicide, unless they get rid of the computers,

there's always porn. There's always something on there, especially when you're dealing with people that are motivated by sexual predation. So I think that was a very poor choice of words by Thompson in the original plea. He didn't repeat that again today, but look, one of the things that he did say,

he talked about, we didn't reduce, we didn't reduce the sentences. What did he say? He said, no bargaining about reduced sentences. It's like, dude, you gave him the biggest reduced sentence, you came off death. I mean, I don't I don't know what he was talking about there, unless he's referring to the specific counts. And sorry, again, I don't want to be overly critical here. But that's called pleading to the sheet. That's something that happens in every courtroom every day by prosecutors.

There's nothing heroic about that. It's like you want us to come up the biggest potential sentence in a state that might actually execute him. Of course, he's going to plead to the sheet. That I thought was really, that was designed, that language I think was designed for the general public because there's a lot of lawyers who practice criminal law, I guarantee you across America, that were kind of rolling their eyes a little bit on that.

And again, guys got a tough job. There are advantages certainly to taking a plea. My Rodney O'Callough case, like we talked about, I did the third version of that. It was reversed twice. He was convicted twice, sensed it twice. I did the third trial and it was brutal on the families. All of that stuff is real. But again, we talked about this. I don't know what changed behind the scenes other than just Kroberger coming and want to make a deal. And it sounds like nothing.

That's it. And Bill Thompson not wanting to try the case. I did find the comment that I don't think he's done that. Steve Gonsalves made to People Magazine. Well, sorry, People Magazine wrote up an interview he gave to the Today Show where he said, he and Christie Gonsalves said, "'The coroner gave the parents a breakdown "'of the wounds 21-year-old Kaylee suffered.

"'She had definitely been stabbed multiple times, and they kind of described it as a drowning that can occur. But she did say gagging. Kohlberger struck her in the face. Kristi Gonzalez added, Kaylee had a broken nose, septal hematomas, asphyxial injuries, and defense wounds on her arms. She was stabbed many, many times,

how many we don't know. And that's where you come in, Howard, where you're saying Steve Gonsalves asked you if you could find out that he's relying on you. They're still trying to find things out. And today they revealed for the first time, at least, that there was perhaps something else in the hands that they used to beat Kayleigh.

I'd like to hear more about that, but instead we've been told it's time to move on. I think that's reasonable thinking. Here's the sister Olivia in a series of questions she posed to Brian Kohlberger directly raising some of these points. Some of these might be familiar. So sit up straight when I talk to you.

How was your life right before you murdered my sisters? Did you prepare for the crime before leaving your apartment, please detail what you were thinking and feeling at this time Why did you choose my sisters? Before making your move did you approach my sisters? Detail what you were thinking and feeling Before leaving their home. Is there anything else you did? Where is the murder weapon the clothes you wore that night? What did you bring into the house with you?

What was the second weapon you used on Kaylee? What were Kaylee's last words? If you were really smart, do you think you'd be here right now? What's it like needing this much attention just to feel real? Oh, I mean as someone who's put these psychopaths in jail, Matt, how do you think that made him feel? Well look, every family member, Megan, put these psychopaths in jail, Matt. How do you think that made him feel? Well, look, every family member, Megan, winds up landing,

anybody that goes through something like this, they initially land somewhere on a spectrum between just supreme grief and supreme anger. And a lot of them will sort of change on that scale over the course of the proceedings and the course of time. I actually really thought that was incredibly powerful for her to do that. And I think that's the purpose of a victim impact statement because of that young woman, Olivia will be able to go through the rest of the last or less for

life, knowing that he had to sit there and listen. And again, when we're talking about the psychopath, they have no capacity for empathy, but their narcissism is off the charts. So to have a, as you pointed out, Megan, a very attractive young woman, Olivia, speak to him like that in a, in a setting where he had to sit and listen to him, that stung, because that, that will impact his sense of grandiosity. And she really just laid him, laid him low. I mean, I was cheering for her. She was doing that, taking notes. That was awesome. And I think that if he, if there's anything when he gets on that bus to go to whatever prison they send

him to, that's going to be echoing around in his mind, it's going to be the words of Olivia Gonzalves. I have to say, I thought it was a courageous courageous act too because he is a quadruple murderer. And I mean, I just can't continue to think back to his first question when he got arrested, which was, is anyone else in custody? And so, you know, there is at least a question mark lingering over the case about whether somebody helped him in some way. And I just thought that's very brave of her to be so provocative and antagonistic toward

who we know is a man, is a quadruple murderer and has zero empathy and she's a young woman. I mean, the piece of it, her testimonial is the one that everybody's going to remember. It was extraordinary. But it was important also to have the full panoply of emotion felt because we also saw what this thing did to, for example, Dylan Mortenson. I mean, Dylan's so interesting. She's one of the two surviving roommates. There was Bethany, who was in the basement, who didn't hear a thing. And then there was Dylan. And Dylan showed up and spoke her statement herself. And she's been at the center of the storm since these murders happened because she saw him.

He got into that house, we believe, around 412 a.m. He left within 12 to 18 minutes at most later. And he upon leaving past Dylan Mortenson in the hallway, she didn't know what she was seeing. She's the one who described him as wearing some sort of like a balaclava or a mask with bushy eyebrows. Howard pointing out she later, Vicki Ward reported that she believed Dylan did.

He was holding some sort of a vacuum cleaner upon exiting. We've never heard her. We've never, she hasn't given an interview. We haven't heard anything heard her. We've never. She hasn't given an interview. We haven't heard anything from her. She shows up today and that woman's anguish was palpable. It was a reminder that he took four lives, but in some ways he ruined far more than four. I'm just gonna play a soundbite from her

and then you can take it, Phil. Here's part of the Dylan Mortenson Impact Statement montage. It's SOP 21. My nervous system never got the message that it is over and it won't let me forget what he did to them. He is a hollow vessel, something less than human, a body without empathy, without remorse. He chose destruction. He chose evil. He may have taken so much from me, but he will never get to take my voice. He will never take the memories I had with

them. He will never erase the love we shared, the laughs we had, or the way they made me feel seen and whole. Those things are mine, they are sacred, and he will never touch them. Oh, both both she and the other roommate felt testifying that for a year after this happened, they had to sleep in the bed with their parents. You know, it to take someone's life obviously is one of the worst things that you could ever do to someone, but I think you could make the argument that doing to her what Coburger did to her,

it may be even worse because the people who have passed away, they're not hurting or suffering in the physical sense anymore, but she is. And she's got to carry that with her for the rest of her natural life. And those of us who are parents, like in my case of a soon to be college-age child, you know, this is the worst nightmare for any parent. You want what's best for your family. You want what's best for your kids. You want your kids to go out into the world and succeed and to be happy. And that's the most important thing. You want your kids to be happy. But there's no amount of

counseling or no therapy that can ever help undo what Coburger did to her and can make her happy. And so, you know, this all goes back to part of the problem that I have with this plea deal in the first place. We're just left with so many questions that might help some of these people move forward in at least maybe a little bit more satisfactory fashion. The prosecutor had every reason, I think, to go forward with the trial. Not all the questions would have been answered, but a lot of them would. We would not be talking necessarily about- Well, like how many stab wounds? forward with the trial, not all the questions would have been answered, but a lot of them would.

We would not be talking necessarily about how many stab wounds or was he carrying a vacuum cleaner. We would know the answers to a lot of this if there had been a trial. Maybe in the weeks and months and years to come, maybe the families will be provided with the evidence that they didn't see at the trial that didn't happen, and maybe they'll be able to provide it to the public. Maybe journalists will be able to get their hands on some of this stuff now that the gag order has been released. But remember, it's still all in the possession, custody, and control of the prosecution,

and it's really going to be up to them how to get this information out into the public if they're willing to do it at all. And I think they probably have some things that they just, to protect themselves, they don't want the public to find out about. I think that there was some hesitancy about the prosecution. That's the nicest word I can think of right now, some hesitancy to move forward with the prosecution. I'll just, that's the nicest word I can think of right now. Some hesitancy to move forward with the trial. I don't know if it's they didn't feel they were capable or they were somehow scared of going to trial, but they certainly seemed

to jump on Coburger's, Coburger's really the one that made the offer. Say, look, I'll plead guilty if you take death off the table. And it's almost like Coburger's team is making the plea offer and the prosecutor accepting his terms. Yeah. Yeah. The prosecution was relieved. Yeah, they act like they're the ones that made some kind of plea deal.

I see it the other way around. I see Coburger made the plea deal and the prosecutor accepted that. You're so right. Go ahead, Howard. That's exactly right. I mean, and then for the prosecution, for Bill Thompson to talk about, we will move on. The door is closed. The judge said that.

Well, we all heard Dillon Morton's statements. No one is moving on. This is going to linger forever. And the only thing that's going to happen is the possibility of getting answers to specific questions. Well, that's going to be a lot harder now. I think the families and the citizens of Idaho and the public are, I've been dis-served by what was done in the courtroom today.

Now was the time. Um, you know, it's creepy in the, in the movie that I keep referencing, One Night in Idaho. They have a very interesting segment with the women who ran one of these public chat groups about the murders. These two women run multiple true crime blogs and they added this one after the murders. This was the forum into which Papa Roger appeared, posting his theories about the crime. It's clearly Brian Kohlberger and they walk you through his posts, which really kind of gave about the crime. It's clearly Brian Kohlberger, and they walk you through his posts, which really kind of gave up the game.

First of all, the photo, like the sort of icon that's used to represent Papa Roger looks just like Brian Kohlberger. I mean, identical. And second of all, his posts know way more than any civilian who didn't commit this crime should have known long prior to the release of that police affidavit,

which had the details of the crime. I mean, he was already speculating about, he knew it was a knife. He speculated that they found the knife sheath. He asked some of those same weird questions that he asked in that questionnaire. He wanted to know what do you think was in the mind of the killer when he walked into the room?

They were like, it was more than I'd ever heard from the Papa Roger account as these two women who ran it went through his questioning. And then as soon as Brian Kohlberger was arrested, dried up. Papa Roger never posted again, which tells me he wants attention. He loves reveling in the crime, Matt. He seems to have been getting off on it

because at that point he was getting away with the crime, Matt, he seems to have been getting off on it because at that point he was getting away with the crime. So why would a killer like this, who had as of then gotten away with it, be so provocative to be making these posts in a public online crime forum? Well, that goes back to Jack the Ripper, right? Megan, it's like that person wrote to the police and they think that those letters came from the actual killer. We saw that in the Zodiac

Killer 2. That speaks to the narcissism, the arrogance and the grandiosity of the great American psychopath or even outside of America. It's the mindset of these guys. And that's why- Oh, it's like I'm thinking of the thumbs up photo after the murders, Matt. As you say, the grandiosity. It's his selfie with the thumbs up. Yeah, he's celebrating himself. Keep going. Yeah, it looks like a vampire in that too. And look, Megan, that photo, there's a very common thing and it comes from a good place, I think, with most people. But when they're considering death versus life in prison, one of the things you hear very commonly is people will go, well, the worst thing I can imagine is if I was in a cell and I had to think about what I did every single day.

That's imposing humanity onto the mind of the psychopath. They don't think that way. It's a mistake. It comes from, it's almost like psychological projection. We think about ourselves and we think about how we have the capacity for guilt. They don't think that way. And the arrogance of posting stuff to an online chat room, I mean, it's just, it's a modern version of the same thing. And they, these guys, I hate to say it, but they don don't they just don't experience

remorse like other people and that's why I loved I really love the comments of Olivia today because that kind of stuff is biting that kind of stuff. Matt, that was the other thing she got to. She said so Jack the Ripper was never caught but Brian Kohlberger was caught and she got on him like how are you so stupid? Like, mockingly, like, did you really think you're gonna be able to cover up your Amazon purchase of the knife by using a gift card?

It was so diminishing. Look, I loved that. I loved that. I loved her. Your basic, your nothing. She went, she read everything that she could get her hands on written by Brian Koberger. That is a very intelligent woman who wanted,

she wanted to sting him and she did. I guarantee that stuff hurt today. Okay, now speaking of stinging, speaking of my friend Ashley Banfield, she had on a guy, his name is Larry Levine, and he's a former federal inmate and prison consultant. And he's literally written the book that people read when they get sentenced to prison, unlike how to deal with prison.

So she had him on not long ago and asked him some questions about what's going to happen now to Brian Kohlberger. This was after understanding he was pleading guilty and listen here to Sat-16. Remember that these people in there, none of them, well, I shouldn't say none of them, a great deal of them are not mentally stable anyway. So that's highly possible.

Maybe somebody will shiv him or something. That is part of jailhouse justice. I've seen people get stuck before. I've been in three different prison riots, so I've seen all this shit. But I predict within a year or less that he's either going to be dead or he's going to be physically injured in some way. Then they'll transport him, take him to a real hospital, and they'll let him stay there and get well and all this bullshit. Finally, they'll move him back over to the prison,

back to Boise, and he'll be in protective custody for the rest of his life, because they won't be able to put him in general population. Now, Matt, you've been saying he's gonna go to special custody right away. Do we know that? I guarantee they're gonna put him in, it's called PC, or they're going to make them a total sep or a total separation. I guarantee he's been in that status almost certainly the entire time since his arrest because of the notoriety of the

case. It'll only increase today. But what a sad statement of the American system of justice when we're all here and we are hoping that not not that we're that a lot of people across America are cheering for dirt bag prisoners to carry out what the American justice system couldn't. And back to Philip's point, you know, the idea that the DA kind of blinked on this, that he accepted Coburger's terms. And I just don't see any other way of looking at it, because it sounds like that is exactly what happened. Go ahead, Phil. Let me just disagree a little bit. I think the prison system has a responsibility to protect him.

I think that that should be enforced, and it would be an American tragedy if he were killed in prison. I think that's not the way America works. Howard, he's my dear liberal friend. I'm not calling for it. Well, I certainly wouldn't be crying any tears. I would not cry one tear to hear. I actually would like to see him suffer for a little while before they take care of him. But I don't know.

In this matter, I feel like those prisoners, those fellow prisoners to him are our allies. I'm willing to look the other way. He shouldn't continue breathing our air. I don't really care about the explanation at this point, Phil. I want him gone. I feel like the state fell down on the job. If prison justice has to do it. Nobody cried when, you know, Jeffrey Dahmer was killed in prison. I mean, you know, things like that, but the, the, the, the state does have a

legal obligation to at least do their best to protect those in their custody, such as prisoners. They don't always do such a good job at it. And you know, these things do- Why are they letting men in women's prisons? Yeah, well, you never know what's gonna happen. But the thing that about his being in custody for life is look, over time, whether it's a year or two

years, three years from now, over time, the guard will get let down. He's going to become more in the rear view mirror and not so much of, you know, today's prisoner celebrity kind of thing. And so over time, he's going to be exposed to many different opportunities for things to happen, either at the hands of other third parties or at the hands of himself. And you just never know. He's not going to be well liked by other prisoners. He's going to be in that category of inmates that really do need to be looking over their shoulder for their own safety. And he better hope for his sake that he is in

protective custody. And he better hope that it is in protective custody and he better hope that it's sufficient protective custody and that there's no gaps in it because he's going to be universally hated by the rank-and-file inmate people that are in there for, you know, let's just maybe theft offenses, property crimes, not necessarily, you know, um, limited to just violent prisoners. He's going to be exposed potentially to all different manner of people that are just in there for short sentences and some of them are in there for life. And some people in prison have nothing to lose either. Uh, and so he's got a lot of things that he needs to be concerned about.

It's a long way from that selfie that we saw where it's just disgusting to me because it's a long way from that selfie that we saw where it's just disgusting to me because it's right after apparently the murders. It looks like he's standing in front of a shower. Maybe he's just cleaned himself up and he's giving this thumbs up like, hey, I'm very proud of myself. I'm proud of that I just achieved my mission. I think he was trying to duplicate maybe a Ted Bundy or some other serial killer.

And he's very proud of himself in that picture right there. But he's got a different road in front of him moving forward, Megan, he's got a lot to be concerned about. Here's a little bit more from this Larry Levine, who's got some interesting takes on it. All right, here's Juan Sot19. takes on it. All right, here's one, SOT19. I remember something you once told me, that almost everybody cries. They do, because the whole realization has hit them. People lay awake and they can't

sleep and every little fucking noise and the pipes in the wall. Everything freaks them out. And then, you know, this is an old prison in Idaho. Maybe there's rats in the walls and maybe he'll get a little pet or something. And he's going to hear the other inmates are going to be assholes banging on the wall. They will. They're going to bang on the wall. They're going to fuck with him and they're telling they bang on the wall, they're gonna fuck with him, and they're gonna tell him they're gonna kill him.

It doesn't matter how tough you are. And he's got no hope. That's what a lot of people, they live to see their families. They know they're all getting out. So a person serving a life sentence their first night in there, it just completely fucks with their head.

Maybe he'll try to kill himself. I'm starting to feel better. I don't know. Howard, wasn't he already asking when he got arrested for like vegan, a vegan menu and like the proper cooking utensils that hadn't touched meat? It was kind of crazy when he first got arrested if memory serves.

Yes, and he was also asking if he could have a coffee date with the officer who arrested him. I mean, he was sort of cut off from reality. He thinks he thought this was all somehow going to work out. Yeah. And he's about to learn the hard way. Will he be able to have people interview him in prison? Will actually suppose Katherine Ramsden wanted to visit him. Would she be allowed? I'm not sure that it's even allowed in maximum custody. Well, here's what Brian Enton of News Nation tweeted out.

He posted, Colberger will likely have his own tablet in prison, like an iPad, with music, email, and movies in his prison cell. Also, he can buy his own TV to keep in his cell. This is why people favor the death penalty, because we don't wanna see them, Phil, sitting there, watching probably one night in Idaho, reliving it for good time's sake, in his case,

as opposed to standing in front of the firing squad. Yeah. He's going to be rewatching all his court appearances and, and reliving his glory days, but look, here's a question that I've got maybe for the rest of you, Megan and the rest of the panel and for those watching, is there a possibility now that president Trump has weighed in on this case that maybe the federal government brings some charges because you know, you know, it's possible. There's concurrent jurisdiction.

There's no such thing as double jeopardy vis-a-vis the federal and the state system. And if the Justice Department were to try to pick up this case, the federal death penalty could potentially be on the table and he could have a whole new set of problems to be dealing with. So look, this today, this sentencing hearing is over. This Idaho case is over, but this saga is not over. And I just wonder if there's not going to be some, uh, just say thought given at the federal level to bring in some kind of federal charges, because in the federal system, the death penalty is it's real.

It applies and the justice department knows how to use it. Here. Here was the president's tweet just, I think two days ago, Colbert, Brian Colberger, who was responsible in Idaho for the deaths of four wonderful young souls has made a plea bargain deal in order to avoid the death penalty. These were vicious murders with so many questions left in unanswered while life imprisonment is tough. It's certainly better than receiving the death penalty. But before sentencing, I hope the judge makes Kohlberger at a minimum

explain why he did these horrible murders. There are no explanations. There is no nothing. People were shocked that he was able to plea bargain, but the judge should make him explain what happened. Thank you for your attention to this matter. The judge pointing out today he didn't have that ability, but Matt, you pointed out last time we were together, the DA did.

I'll give you the floor in one second. I wanna say this. My information is that thanks to DOJ, the DOJ right now is severely undermanned. DOJ is not like USAID where you cancel the grant and you cancel the person overseeing it and you're fine. When you fire something like 240 lawyers from DOJ, the cases they were on do not go away. They now get dumped on other lawyers who are at DOJ.

So my info over there is that a lot of lawyers are really stretched thin. They need to hire good lawyers over there. Hello, my friends on screen left. Phil, I know you're busy with the new MK Media Show, but you should do it. You too, Matt. You recently left the prosecutor's office anyway. I don't think they have the manpower

to go after a case that's already wrapped up. But your thoughts on it, Matt? Well, they could. They certainly could. We're talking about the resource of the federal government. The problem is, would they? And then what effect would that ultimately have? And Philip's right. I don't know if it's called dual jurisdiction. I don't know if there is a, if there necessarily is a federal way into this. It wasn't on a military base. I don't

know if there'd be any federal jurisdiction because there's a college campus. I don't know if they would necessarily have jurisdiction, but the problem there, Megan, is we just saw the midnight pardons and commutations by Joe Biden where I think they commuted 37 of 42 federal death penalty cases, I think was the number. The vast majority on his way out the door of federal death penalty sentences were commuted to life in prison. So even if we did get one federally, you know, I mean, Megan, you cover this, you cover national politics, you know,

that's a 40 years is a long time for there to be a president as we almost saw last time that's hostile to the death penalty, hostile to life without parole, who would likely commute that long before it was carried out. If I'd like to correct your statement, the auto pen was hostile to the death penalty. Yeah, correct. Auto pen decided to get rid of it in many, many cases. Or whoever was turning it on, right. I want to believe the following because we did not-

He went on Amazon. He went on Amazon to make purchases. And so I think there could be a federal hook here. And he left the state of Idaho in furtherance of his desires to cover up the crimes. I think you're looking at it in a too legalistic way. I think if the president believes a great number of the American people still want answers, I think he will somehow move things so that there will be things will move forward in the courts. I think- Philip just hit the nail on the head. Sorry, I didn't mean to step on you, Howard.

Philip's absolutely right. He crossed state lines. That's the hook. They could do it if they want. That does give the feds jurisdiction if they wanted to pursue death. I don't know how the families would feel about going through that entire process, but they would be walking with the backstop. It's a very interesting idea.

Hmm. Wow. OK, so that we possibly we've plowed new ground here. I wanted to play this just because we listen to this whole thing together. And we heard from Maddie's family. We heard from Kaylee's family. We heard from Zanna's family. But we heard nothing from Ethan Chapin's family. And there was a reason for that. His parents did cooperate with the One Night in Idaho documentary.

His mother, who I mentioned earlier, Stacey, an incredible woman. I mean, I've never met her, but boy, I was very impressed by her. And here's what she said in episode three of that four episode series, SOT 11. Standing in a courtroom. This doesn't feel right. Why would. Sending in a courtroom. This doesn't feel right. Why would I go sit in a courtroom with that person?

Have you attended any of the hearings? None, no, I will not. We won't attend any of the hearings. What's the purpose? Definitely not the trial. No, nope. I don't have a need to go look them in the eyes or, I don't. It need to go look him in the eyes or I don't

It is what it is we cannot change the outcome on this thing. We cannot bring it back She's she's certainly right about that. She's got a very strong head on her shoulders Maddie's mom Karen is a is a real tearjerker in this series because she looks just like her daughter, first of all. And second of all, she talks about how she raised Maddie and how, you know, when Maddie cried in the crib, she went and got her. Like, she was always like sort of the, and I mean this sweetly, like the sucker of a mom. Like, I can't take it.

I can't take her upset. You know, life's too short. I need to help her with her distress. By all accounts, Maddie turned out amazingly and turned into just an absolutely wonderful young woman. And so you can see this mother's just acute pain talking about getting the news and dealing with the news. And here's just a bit of her talking

about that yellow sweatshirt that's in that photo of the six of them, the very photo that the sentencing proceeding today ended on. And the photo we've come to know so well that really encapsulates their friendship and the love and the vibrance. And here's Maddie's mom, Karen, talking about it, SOC 12. We didn't honestly get a lot back. And here's Maddie's mom, Karen, talking about it, it's on 12th. very sentimental, like I still have the yellow sweater that she was wearing that day. The sleeves are still rolled up.

So I found this sweatshirt when we went down, it was the first family weekend. And Maddie really wanted this sweatshirt and it wasn't in her size, we couldn't find it. And I found in like a total different place. And when I found it, I was like, Scott! Look, we found the sweater! And then... I'm on video with her, and she's cutting it. I'm like, we were on FaceTime.

I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, this is how everything is worn, Mom. I'm like, okay, I gotta get used to this. I gotta let it be. But yes, super glad we got that back. Oh my God, you guys, you look at it. There's this sweatshirt with no girl in it and no girl will ever be in it named Kaylee Goncalves

because of what that monster did. Those moments really bring it back to what this case is all about. Those four wonderful lives lost for no reason. I don't know. My own take away on this story and this crime is so basic but it's hug your kids, hug your loved ones. Remember that no tomorrow's promised. Don't assume you have the time.

You might not. You have to tell everybody you love that you love them. You have to tell the friends that you have, that you value them. You have to go outside and look at the sky or look at the ocean and think, I'm here on borrowed time. I'm a renter, not an owner. I have to treat the things around me

and the people around me respectfully like a renter should and make sure, make sure that you're connected, you know, that you're not spending too much time working and not enough time loving and having experiences with those who mean something to you. It's the only comfort we have when something horrific happens and the only comfort those parents have who were close to their kids by all accounts, I mean, especially in the case of the Chapins and Maddie and Kaylee, I don't know the, I don't know Zanna's family as well, but my God, what a day.

You guys are, I value you truly and sincerely. All three of you have helped us get through this case. And especially you, Howard, thank you for everything. And we'll continue it on with many other cases to come. Thanks guys for being here today. Always a pleasure. All the best guys. Wow. And thanks to all of you for listening.

This is a this is an emotional one. I wonder how you're feeling. I'd love to know how you're feeling, actually. Helps me sometimes to read the emails. And I'm kind of emotional. It's my son's 12th birthday. They're growing up too fast and they're moving on to new stages of life where they're a little less dependent on you and that's a beautiful thing and it's a necessary thing.

But man, there's such perspective setters. They're what matters. That is in the end all that matters. And I love my job. As you guys know, I love doing the news. But my God, your family, they're everything. That's everything. So hug your loved ones. Hug them dearly and tightly today.

Happy birthday, Thatcher. And we'll all get together tomorrow on a less heavy news day, though things are really breaking today on the Tulsi Gabbard documents. We'll have that covered for you with the fellas from Ruthless. And we'll have some laughs.

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