The Megyn Kelly Show - Carlos Watson on Challenging Conversations, the State of the Media, and the Ingredients to Success | Ep. 103

Episode Date: May 17, 2021

Megyn Kelly is joined by Carlos Watson, co-founder and CEO of OZY, to talk about the importance of having challenging conversations, race in America, the state of the media, the ingredients to success, how we can better American society today, his life going from "worst behaved" in school to Harvard, his hopes for raising kids, the need to talk about pregnancy challenges, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShowFind out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Today, we have got Carlos Watson. He's the CEO and co-founder of Ozzy Media, which is just killing right now. He was a former CNN, MSNBC journalist who decided this is not how I want to live. This is not how I think the news media world should be. And I'm just going to go out there and do it differently. And boy, has he. He hosts the Carlos Watson Show, which is a podcast and on YouTube. He's also a co-host with my pal, Katty Kay of the BBC. She's sweet

and fun and they do their own separate podcast together. But listen, this guy is really interesting. He's 51 years old, born and raised in Miami. Parents were teachers. He is a kid who openly says he was a black boy dubbed difficult in school, who somehow managed to overcome the many challenges thrown his way to wind up at Harvard and then Stanford Law School. And now he's a media executive doing really well. He's interviewed everybody, everybody from Barack Obama to Bill Clinton, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Malcolm Gladwell, I could go on. He gets people from all sides of the spectrum, because he's open minded. And he he's not he's not ideological.

He's not particularly partisan. He used to work in Dem politics, Democratic politics. But and I think he definitely means more liberal. But you'll see for yourself that it's possible to to be in that place and to still be open minded to other ideas, to have beliefs like I definitely don't share when it comes to the cops and systemic racism, possibly in other issues, but to still be open-minded to discussion. And I think we are that too. I think in a way our shows are similar. Anyway, you're going to love him. We're going to get to him one second, but first this. Carlos, how are you? Good. How are you? I'm great. Where are you on this beautiful day?

I am in sunny California in the Bay Area. Are you in New York or where are you? New York City, baby. And we finally have some good weather. It's going to be 70 degrees today and I am so happy. Nice. Now, you know, I am a big baby because I grew up in Miami, and so I don't even consider 70 degrees warm. I'm like, I'm the kind of kid who needs 75, 80. This is what happens. Now, I grew up in Syracuse and Albany with my brother and sister and my family, and my

brother moved down to Atlanta like 20 years ago, and now you'd think he'd still have some Syracuse boy inside of him. Gone. He is such a wuss. The blood just got thin really quickly. Yeah. No, it's funny. I remember growing up in Miami and then I went to live in Boston at one point and I was like putting on every sweater anybody had ever created. I looked like a big, I don't know if you remember on the Cosby show, they used to have all those colorful sweaters. I looked like a big Cosby show ad. And then two, four, three years later, I found myself walking outside and high 50 degree weather. And I thought, okay, okay, I'm getting a little bit better. So not anymore though. California.

So now I know you, you were living in New York for a while and I understand you, you left New York when your mom got sick. Your mom got terminal cancer as I understand it. And you went to take care of her. Where, where was she still in Miami at the time? No. So, you know, I, we grew up in Miami. Um, my folks had met in New York, um, beautiful story about that as my mom was getting on a ship and, uh, and then, um, they had moved down to Miami ultimately where we grew up. And then, uh, I moved them to the Bay area. Um, and when I started doing television, I left the Bay area and went to New York. And I, um, uh, Megan, I was home once in the Bay Area. I was about to meet my friend, really good friend named Jude, for breakfast.

And my mom called me and she said, hey, can you come pick me up? And you probably have had this, Megan, with people in your life, maybe even your kids, who you just know when they ask you for something, it's just completely out of the ordinary, even though it's a really simple ask. And it's kind of hard to explain, but my mom, it just was not like her to say, can you come pick me up? And I just had the worst pit in my stomach. And so I went and I picked her up. She was supposed to be doing physical therapy that morning. And I went to pick her up and she's like, I don't feel well. And we went to the doctor and, um, but, um, that,

you know, that day changed her life and, you know, uh, by implication changed, you know, uh, all of our lives. And, uh, and so I moved out to take care of her and, uh, uh, we ended up getting more time than people ever thought that she would get. And, uh, and so I'm always grateful, even though I wish, you know, I wish she was still here and I wish things had happened differently. I'm glad that I'm glad that I got that time with her. Oh my gosh. It's like, I, I feel for you. I'm my, I lost my dad when I was young, but my mom, you know, she's getting older. She's going to be 80 this summer. And, uh, I think those kinds of worries, you know, about losing somebody, somebody that important to you, like that's in a, that's in a field of its own. And I will confess,

we've always joked in my family, because I've never been like a kind of a caretaker. I'm a mother. So to some extent, I am. Right, right, right. I was I never had that natural, like, oh, she's gonna be a caretaker gene. You'd be shocked to hear. And so I was always kind of understood in my family that, and we'd laugh. My mom would laugh about this too, that like when my mom got old and gray, I was going to have to pay for whatever assistance she needed. And my sister was going to have to actually do it. And my brother would send flowers and get all the credit.

That is excellent. That is that, you know what, as the brother of three sisters, it sounds like your brother, it sounds like you've got, uh, there are two women, one and one guy there, uh, that, that would be a brotherly move that I've seen before. So that's good. Okay. You've got what three brothers and sisters, three, three siblings. I've got three sisters, one older, two younger. And so I was always outnumbered a little bit, but I got a good squad. I ended up with a good crew. This is why you can talk to anyone. I got trained, right? I got properly trained. Yeah. If you want it to be heard in your family, you had to learn the art of conversation when you're living with so many women.

Well, and not only that, so many women who we didn't share the same interest and like trying to convince my sisters. We had one big TV to let that TV be on the playoffs, NFL playoffs. Have you? That was the art, ultimate art of negotiation. So yes, I definitely learned a thing or two about, I always say, how to compromise and how to surrender gracefully. That's what I learned. I'm still working on that, both of those things. relatively modest home outside of Miami, grows up to get into Harvard, goes to Stanford Law School, and winds up running a big media company. I mean, your company is just killing it right now. So how did you make that happen? You know, it's funny. I mean, I started with some good ingredients that I've heard you say before that you also benefit from. I had good parents, Megan. I didn't appreciate that at the time.

And certainly they will tell you that I didn't always show my appreciation as a kid. But when all is said and done, while no one's perfect, I ended up with a really good deal. And I think having good, creative, loving parents who are generally positive people, I think was a big help. And that was especially true when I had some rockiness early on. I had some issues in school and some other things. I had a very bad accident when I was 11. They thought I'd never walk again. In fact, I didn't walk from 11 to 14. And when I showed up for the first day of high school, all the kids who knew me from junior high were like, Carlos Watson can walk? Because they'd never seen me walk. They'd only seen me on crutches. And it was always one phrase, that boy Carlos Watson on crutches.

Oh, my gosh. But I think having, you know, lots of things went my way. But I think among the biggest were definitely my parents. My mom was an older mom, which she said made her a better mom. So I think that that- I'm afraid to ask this, but what does that mean? What? You know, you know, so in her day being a mom, she got into the game late. So she had four kids. My parents got married late and my mom had four kids between 36 and 41, which I think would be like between 44 and 48 or 44 and 49.

So, you know. No, for sure. In the seventies, that was, that was considered old. Yeah. I'm saying, I'm saying I had my kids at 38, 40 and 42, but even today that is considered old, not by society, but by your eggs, your, your eggs are like, we retired a few years ago. And were all of your births, um, healthy? Did everything go well with all of your kids? Everything's fine. I used IVF for all three of my kids and wound up having a C-section. I had to have a C-section on the first. So for the second two, I was like, I'm just going to go for it.

I want to keep what I can keep intact is going to stay intact. Sorry, TMI. But yeah, I had to use IVF. But although it just this also may be TMI, but it wasn't because my eggs were actually fine when I started to try to have children. IVF, but although it just, this also may be TMI, but it wasn't because my eggs were actually fine when I started to, you know, try to have children. But this is really a lot of information, Carlos, forgive me. But I have this thing called a T-shaped uterus. You know how uterus is usually shaped like kind of an upside down triangle? Mine is like skinnier than it's supposed to be.

And so we were having trouble conceiving. And of course, in the beginning, it was like, oh my God, I'm not going to be able to have children. Meanwhile, I'd spent most of my 20s and 30s being like, I don't want children. I'm just going to kill it professionally. And then when you meet the right person, and especially as a woman, you're like, I must have a child. And I'm like, what the hell is a T-shaped uterus? Well, I like skinny, skinny uterus. That sounds good. But no anyway, found found the right doctor. He said it's no problem. Just had a woman with a T-shaped uterus who just had twins. Don't worry. It's just, you know, maybe a little harder for you. Anyway, that's a long winded answer. But I do try to mention

it sometimes because anybody else who's out there because there's precious little on the Internet about that issue. So like when you Google it, you're like, I'm the only one. I'm deformed and I'm never having kids. I did. It was later in life. I used modern medicine. It worked out great. And, and your mom back then, she would have had to do it, you know, the old fashioned way because they didn't have IVF back in the, in the late sixties, seventies. Not at all. And, and, you know, she was fortunate to, uh, uh, to have, but, but C-section, uh, indeed, I, uh, uh, I C-section, indeed. I was the first of several C-sections. And, you know, I like, though, that you talked about the T-shaped uterus and the whole journey to pregnancy, because it's funny, I started having lots of conversations with people about this in part because I had several younger sisters who have been thinking about this.

And it is such a positive thing, not just for women, but for men too, to hear this conversation and, and for people to, to, to get information, to get hope.

And I think your girl, did Erin Andrews tell me that she was talking to you about this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that you talked with her recently. I love her. Yeah, yeah.

And she was telling me about her journey and kind of going through this and kind of needing other people to kind of talk through. And anyhow, yeah. So, yeah. So, late in life mom was part of the ticket. And I had some really good teachers. In fact, my fifth and sixth grade teacher, who probably was the most instrumental teacher in my life, Mrs. Trencher, Ruth Trencher, just wrote me the other day. And I still call her Mrs. Trencher even though she writes Ruth Trencher. But I could never call her.

I could never call her anything other than Mrs. Crenshaw. Yeah. No, I same. And is she listening? Is she watching? Is she a fan now? You know, I believe she is because she does, she checks in on me and she writes stuff and I can tell.

And she was the, you know, she was the most observant teacher and she had all these kids and I was probably not, I definitely was not the best behaved kid. I was the worst behaved kid in her class. I've read that about you. I want to know more about that, but keep going. Yeah. Well, she just, but she, you know, she seemed to keep her eye on everyone. And in the class, I would think I was getting away with stuff because she would be like all the way on the other side of the class. And I can still hear her voice, Carlos Watson, please go up and put your name on bad study because she had this board, good study and bad study. And I was always on bad study, and I would always think she wasn't looking.

She wasn't paying attention. So that's exactly what I could do, whatever I was going to do, be my Dennis the Menace self. And she would just call me out. And so it's like she had extra eyes. She would have been a good, a good quarterback in football. I think she had, you know, eyes. Well, not exactly the right profession as a matter of fact, right. That's what you need as a mom, as a, as a teacher. So I don't was, I know I read that they sent you to a psychologist for a learning

disability that doesn't, I don't, did you actually have a learning disability or what was that about? No. So, you know, it was a multi-layered story. So I, I had a wonderful big sister who, so I started getting in trouble as soon as I got to kindergarten, like as soon as I got to kindergarten, elementary school, wasted no time. They would kick me out. I'd get sent to the principal's office. They would ask my mom to come pick me up. And in those days when there were no cell phones and women were just beginning to take on more white collar professional jobs for her, it was super embarrassing because no

sooner did she drop me off at school and gone to work, then there was a message waiting for her, come pick up your son. And then what do you do with this kid? Do you know what I mean? And then she would bring me to work. And everyone was like, why is your kid at work? Like this was not a normal thing in the 70s. And so I would get into a lot of trouble. And part of it started because my older sister, I was like Batman to her Robin.

We would do everything together. And when she went off to kindergarten, she wanted to bring me with her. And she kept trying and she would try all these different ways. And she would tell me to get dressed and get ready to get in the car. They wouldn't let me in with her. And then finally, after a couple of weeks, she decided, OK, if they won't let me bring him to school, I'm going to bring school to him. Well, Megan, you know, as a mom, there's no better teacher than a big sister who loves you, right? Like you're not going to get a better teacher to teach you how to read, how to do your numbers, you know, all that stuff. So I got two years of the best homeschooling as soon as she got home every day.

So when I got to kindergarten, they would say, what's two plus two? I would think that was a joke because I was like, well, we did that already. You know what I mean? We did that a half a lifetime ago. Correct. So I would say yellow and they didn't think two plus two equaling yellow was very funny. So they would ask me to leave the building. And so, and once you start to become the bad kid that happened, and I think even more so, and there are lots of studies on this, I think particularly for a lot of black boys, unfortunately, and certainly in my era in the seventies and eighties, you could easily like end up getting pigeonholed and, and getting down a bad road. And so they would start to say, well, what is wrong with this kid?

And yada, yada, yada. And there was a young PhD student, Carol Bernstein, who was doing her PhD at the University of Miami. And as the story goes, she was in the teacher's lounge and she was doing her PhD on disruptive kids. And she heard all the teachers talking about this bad boy, Carlos Watson. And she thought, oh my goodness, he would be like the perfect example for my dissertation. And so when the new year came, she met this bad boy, Carlos

Watson, who all the teachers didn't want in their class and were worried about. And she was the one who came to my parents and said, you know, I actually think, I actually think he is probably just a bored, bright kid. You should go get him tested at the University of Miami where she was studying. And there was a child psychiatrist, Dr. Shogie, who, you know, normally it was a very expensive thing to have a kid test it. And God bless him, Dr. Shoghi or his kids, if you're listening, thank you. He kind of waved it and said, you know, let me test him. And, you know, they came back and said, you know, I do think he doesn't have a learning disability.

I think instead he's a bright kid who's bored. Let's see if you guys can challenge him a little bit more. And that actually really helped me, Megan, because you can imagine as parents, you know, the last thing you want to hear is this early in the game, your kid is off track, right? And you're hearing that every day and you're having to go to school to pick him up and you're worried and you're like, oh my goodness, what's going to happen? And so to finally see a little bit of light that maybe there is something better for your kid here was a big relief. And to my parents' credit, they like latched onto that and they began to say, hey, is there a different school environment where he could do better?

Or are there other things we can do to make sure that we channel his energy well? Wow, that's amazing. And a testament to your parents paying attention when the information came in. When you told me the story, when you mentioned Carol, I got a chill because you could just see this is like the turning point in your story, in the story of bad boy, Carlos Watson, who turns out to be this brilliant kid as the credentials and your life, your life's work would prove. And it reminds me of my friend, Nancy Armstrong, who's amazing. She's coming out in the fall.

She's going to come on then with a documentary on ADHD. That doesn't sound like you had ADHD, but it's a lot of the kids who struggle with this get labeled as just problematic. They get kicked out of the classroom. People don't want to deal with them. They're annoying.

And if we look at it differently, like at the number of stars and academics and like Thomas Edison, all these people have had ADHD or so we think, it can be turned, right? If it's recognized, you have somebody who cares about you intervene, it can be turned into an asset. And a kid who was just thought problematic can be seen in a totally different lane and achieve endless, endless ends. Well, you know, the other piece of it that my mom said as well, because I talked to her about it later on in a really grateful way. And it was interesting because I think about some of the kids I grew up with. We lived in kind of a working class neighborhood. And so I was able to see very clearly, thinking about my next door neighbors, kind of just very different routes I could have gone down. Megan, I asked my mom, I said, you know, why, you know, why did you do the thing

she did? She said, you know what, she said, it was good that I was an older mom. She said, if I'd been a younger mom, and I was getting getting that much criticism and it was that much of a struggle and I was having to leave work, she said I would have gotten overwhelmed. But she said the fact that I was an older mom made me thankfully not give up and navigate the system better. And so I often think about that too, you know, back to your story about, you know, coming to motherhood later, that probably, you know, back to your story about, you know, coming to motherhood later, the probably, you know, so many different benefits to having some of that life experience. That's true. I mean, I do think it's easier to keep your temper, you know, it's like, nah, this is really worth getting, getting upset about. And also like you, I was thinking about it

with respect to COVID because I think some people, some people share too much with their children. They overshare and the children don't need to be frightened about COVID, frankly, about school shootings, about any of that stuff. They don't, they have enough to worry about. And so I do think sort of being older, you've seen more, you know, as Brit Hume used to say, your give a shit meter changes and for the better, you know, for the better. And so you telegraph less worry and I don't know, fright about life. And what is a dangerous society than you otherwise would have? Coming up next, I'm going to ask Carlos about what John McWhorter said he thought the top four prescriptions for improving some of our inner

city communities, some of our inner city black communities would be. Remember that with McWhorter the other day? So I'll put him to Carlos and he's actually got some interesting additions for that list. Stand by. What you said about your mom is reminding me, you know, we had John McWhorter on the show recently and we were talking about, you know, forgive the term, the black community, because I realize there's not really a black community. There's not a white community. I don't know what the hell that means. But, you know, there are some problematic items, things that we need to talk about inside inner city Chicago and places like it. And he said four things. And I'm just going to say them quickly because he was much more articulate than this. He said, end the war on drugs. If there were no black market and hard drugs, he said there would be a revolution in the black community. Normalized trade school. He said it's absurd to keep telling black America

that the ideal is to go to four years of college and pretend like you like Shakespeare. Hey, that applies to more than just black America, just FYI. Improved reading education. He's a linguistics guy, so he wants reading to be taught with phonics. He thinks it's really important. And then he said broaden access to contraception, um, to make family planning much more accessible. So, I mean, you know, you talk about sort of how you, how you pulled yourself up and your mother's example and attention to you. What do you think of that? And what do you think about sort of this? I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of young black boys who are labeled problematic,

who do not wind up at Harvard and Stanford Law School. Yeah, a number of the things he said there, I like and I think make sense. I think the drug point, that's interesting about what revolution would ensue if that were the case. What was the second thing he said? He said trade school. You know, I would tweak that a little bit because I think there are more modern versions of trade school, whether that's computer coding academies, right, or other sorts of things. So I would think about what it meant. But the notion that a four-year college is an option, but not the only option, I think makes sense. By the way, not just in inner

cities, but broadly speaking, I think there are many ways forward. And I no longer think also that we will just launch. I think that most of us will have many different careers, right? And so thinking about schooling, not just as something you do from five to 21 or five to 22, but that there's going to be continuous learning and continuous resets and continuous opportunities to pivot. I mean, look at you going from the law to broadcasting to, you know, I would call you an entrepreneur now. I like that. It makes me sound. Yeah, but I think that you've got to keep learning in order to do that. So I think about that. I'm a big believer in reading, although you know what's interesting, Megan, is we're entering an audio world where audio technology is going to change the way your kids' kids live, where people will just be able to speak things out loud.

I mean, you already do that with what you want to watch on TV probably, right? Like your remote probably is audio enabled. You may be someone who uses Siri or Alexa a lot, and that's going to ramp up dramatically. So that's an interesting thought. Probably it also will allow different kinds of reading. You know, I think it's funny, one of the things I've been talking to folks a lot about is what would happen if we thought not only about some of the challenges of

the moment, but we thought about the next 250 years of America, and if we had effectively a new constitutional convention, and if we broaden the people who were at the Constitutional Convention, as we would this time around, meaning that in addition to Washington and, you know, Jefferson and Hamilton, you had Kelly and Coates and Gladwell and Lakshmi and all sorts of folks who were part of the conversation. And what kind of creative things would we think about in a world that will have robots and will have AI, right? And we'll have all these things. And so I think that that's my long way of saying, if we want to make big, dramatic, social and economic change and improvement, we have more tools in this moment than we've like ever had, right? and we could make a lot of changes in communities, including the black community. And some of the things John said, I think are part of it. I don't know that I would make that all of the things that, that I would do that. I do think that there are real issues around, um, uh, uh, um, uh, what are some of the other things I think that I would do that I think would make a substantial

difference? I, for example, would have a thousand new schools across the country that were super high quality and that were super open to a wide variety of people. I would think more ambitiously about facilitating entrepreneurship, meaning more bank loans and even more than what the SBA does to really stimulate that. And I would have not only accelerators or kind of startup boot camps in wealthy places like Silicon Valley, but I'd have them in lots of other places like East St. Louis and other parts of the country and create businesses out of there and facilitate that probably in more ambitious, aggressive ways than I think we sometimes do, even when we say we're going to do that. Is it Kevin Hart who's doing, he's doing something like this. I think he's going to underserved communities and trying to explain to young people how they can get their own business

started, how they can get a loan, like to make it simple, to put it in very simple terms. Because I mean, I'll tell you, even, even I as a law school graduate, and it's overwhelming when you try to deal with the paperwork, you're like, how do I set up a company? How do, where do I start? Who do I contact? You know, like it can be overwhelming to the paperwork, you're like, how do I set up a company? How do, where do I start? Who do I contact? You know, like it can be overwhelming to the point where you're like, and I'm out. Right. And by the way, it's not for everybody, but, but, but, but yeah, I'm definitely a believer in, in not only breaking it down, but then having almost like a, a team and a collective.

I mean, you see people do that, Megan, when people start running, right? They do running clubs and get people going and when they're going to do their first marathon or what have you. And I would treat a startup kind of similarly, which is, I would not only give people advice, but I'd put them like on a team of other entrepreneurs who are all, you know, trying to break through. But, but, but Megan, I, I do, you know, I feel strongly that we can do better and that it doesn't necessarily have to take a generation or two or three. And, and I would love to see our leaders just be way more ambitious. Like I live in Silicon Valley and I see companies like Zoom and DoorDash and Uber and Tesla and Airbnb, all companies that sounded ridiculous. I'm sure the first time someone told someone about them, right? Like, wait, you're going to rent out rooms

in your house to random strangers over, you know what I mean? Online or wait, you're going to compete against the taxi industry that no one knows how to crack. And people literally are shooting at each other over medallions. And, and so if we can be that ambitious there, I'd love to be that ambitious about, about social policy in whatever dimension. And I feel like sometimes the ideas we talk about are more modest, and I would love something the ideas we talk about are more modest and I would love something that was really going to change things, you know, pretty significantly. Well, you're up against people's general resistance to change, to big change, you know?

And in fact, I was just reading, um, we just had on Adam Grant, who I know you've had on. Yeah. One of the, I think, I think this is from his book, but one of the, one of the things that was espoused was when trying to convince somebody that your idea is a good one, one of the things you might consider reassuring them of is the things that will stay the same, right? Like I've got this big change to propose and, but like, here's a one through nine, that's going to stay the same. And I just like 10, 10 is going to go away, you know? That was a really interesting persuasion technique. But let me pick up on something else you said.

We need to reinvent models, basically. We need to rethink. And I think that's what you're doing right now with founding your own media company and putting out your own show on YouTube and as a podcast, which has been hugely successful. And I love it, of course, because I'm doing something similar, though not as ambitious, I think, not yet. And I wonder what you think about what's happening right now in our media. You've been, just so our listeners know, you've been at CNN over time, you were at CNBC or at MSNBC. You've done some work on Fox. You decided to go out on your own. And I wonder if you look around now and even recognize CNN and these other places versus when you were there. earliest era, like Ted Turner was like, he was like Don Quixote. You know what I mean? Like, he was like, you know what I mean? Like, it was really a wild idea. And I still remember first hearing about Rupert Murdoch and hearing about the Fox channel, and then eventually Fox

News and some of these other things. And so they were really kind of creative pioneers. But yeah, I think that in the same way that currency is changing, meaning crypto and tech is changing, meaning kind of robots and everything else and how we date, how we work, where we live, all of that is changing. I think our media has got to change. And I think that there's a window here where there will be three or four really significant new media companies by the end of the decade that really are among the 10 most important in the world that weren't household names today. And so I hope that Ozzy ends up getting to become one of those. I think that to really capture not just the attention, but the commitment of curious people. I think you can't

be smart and boring and you can't be flavorful, but empty. But I think you have to be both smart and flavorful. And I think you have to meet people where they are. And I think that it can't just be digital as great as digital is, but I actually deeply believe in live events. Well, I know you said that one of your goals for your show or one of your personal goals is to be like Oprah. And I understand I used to love her. I love her less now, I confess, because she got political and I was like, oh, because she kind of got so rich and so out of touch. I was like, I kind of lost you and you've lost me. But I understand the point, you know, big interviews with anybody. Don't be afraid to go there. Incidentally, she was just saying her big mistake in one of her interviews was she had Sally Field and she said she made the mistake of asking Sally Field whether Burt Reynolds sleeps with his toupee on. Wait, why did you say that was a mistake? Well, because apparently Sally Field did not like that and shut down.

She went totally cold on Oprah and Oprah said she couldn't get back in. You know, you've alienated. You probably never have, Carlos, but I've been there. Where you alienate the person you're interviewing and they're just like, and bye. And I think that happened to Oprah with Sally Field. You're not supposed to ask about Burt Reynolds' hair ever. Well, and you know, sometimes there are things that you wouldn't even imagine are those kinds of triggers for people that are those triggers. And I definitely have felt the moment shift.

And you know what's been interesting? Over the last year in which you couldn't do these interviews in person, but the remote, that's even harder, Megan. Like I tell people it's almost like doing remote surgery, almost like you can do it, but like being able to be there and be in the room is different. And I've had two significant instances like that in the last year. One was kind of a leading political figure and we were having a great conversation for the first three quarters. And then we hit an area. And because it was remote, I couldn't actually see her clearly enough.

But all of a sudden, you could feel that it had changed. And I know that if I had been there, I feel like something, I would have had a second chance with it, but I didn't. So some people are a little more reserved. And even though they are public figures, you know, in their heart, they come to conversations on the defensive a little bit, if that makes sense. And so there's not that same kind of just ease. I'm here. And so there's already some of that going on a little bit. And, and so if something throws them off, then I feel like it is, it is tougher for them. Whereas there are other people who, you know, they're gonna laugh with

you almost, you know, almost, you know, I think about former, former President Bush, who's, you know, 43, who, you know, he's gonna laugh with you almost no matter what. I think he would laugh with you even if he didn't like you. I think, I mean, obviously certain scenarios would allow him to laugh, but he in general is someone who would just as soon that people be laughing and that there'd be jokes flowing. It's true. It's hard. And our media has gotten so polarized and so frankly nasty that when people don't know the anchor the host and they take a risk by going on especially in a long form podcast situation it's like it's not a three minute one and done situation you really get to know somebody

so it's scary I mean like I I've been on the other end of that where I like this this caricature of me has been painted in the media that doesn't match up at all with who I am. And you consider the invitation saying, okay, why is that person having me on? Right? Do they think that this can be a gotcha or this is, you know, it's just, you gotta, you do have to carefully navigate the waters because not everybody's like you, you are an open-minded, kind and generous interviewer. I think other people are more looking to advance their own star. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

And maybe part of that is also the reality era that we're in, right? And some of the competitive survivor-type games and mentality, I think, that people see and go after it in that way. Or maybe some people would argue some of that even goes back to the early days of 60 Minutes and Mike Wallace and the rest. But now social media, social media rewards that behavior. But I always I want to learn. I mean, I mean, the reason I do this and feel lucky to do it is I want to learn. Like, I want to hear what someone else. And even if I disagree and even if I disagree strongly, I still I want to learn. Like, I want to hear what someone else thinks. And even if I disagree, and even if

I disagree strongly, I still, I want to learn. I want to learn how you're thinking, how you came to that, what you would do with that. Would you ever consider something else? Like, who moves you? And you're always going to end up being surprised, right? Like, you know, and if you stay in it, and you're just with the person, they're going to share something that reminds you that most of us are contradictions, right? What did Dr. King used to, he loved that quote that there was a famous quote that used to say, there's enough stuff in me to make both a gentleman and a rogue, right? And I think very few of us are only one thing or the other. And so I actually,

I like the contradiction. And I'm more interested in someone who has contradictions and who's willing to allow that to be part of how we get to know each other. Amen. I mean, I saw just looking at some of the folks you interviewed, one of the people on the list was Tommy Lauren of Fox Nation. And I find her interesting, too. I don't know much about her, but God, she gets killed in the press, right? She says controversial things. But there are a lot of people out there who say controversial things. You know, it's like, why would you say that makes me uninterested in speaking with them, you know, or I just want to have them on so I can beat the hell out of them. Now, if they say something really stupid in their politician game on, right like that, you put yourself out there, especially if it's a

short form interview and you just, you know, they come on just to explain the thing. But in podcasting, it's fun because you get to, you get the layered pieces of a person, you know, where none of us is all good or bad. None of us comes to this world with a presumption of, you know, evil or all goodness. We're complicated, as my therapist always says. You get that. Up next, we're going to talk to Carlos about critical race theory. What does he think about it taking over our schools? And he's got some thoughts on Trump, too.

We'll get to that. But first, I want to bring you a feature we have called From the Archives here at the MK Show, where we look back into the history of the show, the show's library, now with more than 100 episodes. Yay. Or as Adam Grant said, woo. I've been thinking about that and using it. Just like there's something about just the woo without the who that's appealing. Anyway, we will be bringing you a clip today that you should go and check out if you haven't heard it yet, or you can listen to the whole episode. You can listen again if you already have listened to it. And today we're going all the way back to episode 28 in November of last year for my conversation with my pal, Dave Rubin. I can't believe he was only episode 28. Like I cannot believe that we're already at 100 and Dave

was 28. Just seems like it's all going by so quickly. Remember this one? This is a very well received episode. It did very well. And he and I had a great conversation about politics, about his own political journey from the left to the right, about gay marriage, about his own marriage. But listen, it's Monday. So let's have some fun. Near the end of the episode, we got into two stories that had us both and my entire team cracking up. They had to do with sperm banks, Donald Trump Jr., Dennis Rodman, and my Nana. Listen to this. Wait, I got to tell you something really funny about the whole sperm donor thing and all that. It's not sperm donor. We had to deposit, I guess. So the day we were, when we were deciding to do all this, it was a few weeks before,

we had been planning on it for a long time. But when we were finally ready to deposit the sperm and actually begin the process, it was right as the lockdowns were starting. And our fertility doctor called us and it was Friday. He said, you've got to get here in the next hour because we could be closed for months. You've got to deposit this sperm now. So we hop in the car. We have to drive about 45 minutes to get there. We get there, we get out of the car. And remember that feeling right when lockdown was starting, like it just felt crazy. Like it really just like you could feel like this craziness in the air. And we get out of the car. We're going to the sperm clinic to basically both of us whack off in a cup. That's something I never thought I was going to

say to Megyn Kelly. But we're about to walk in there. As we're about 10 feet from the door, my phone rings and it's Trump Jr. So now I'm on the phone with Trump Jr. And he's just babbling. I don't even remember what he was saying. But I'm on the phone with him. I'm about to go into the sperm clinic. We're going into lockdown. And then I look to my left and standing outside the sperm clinic. We're going into lockdown. And then I look to my left and standing outside the sperm clinic, just standing there with a skateboard is Dennis Rodman. And I thought, this is insane. The world is locking down. I'm on the phone with the president's son. I'm standing next to Dennis Rodman on a skateboard and I'm going to walk off in a cup. Like it was a hell of a day. This cannot be my motivation for this scene, right. I'm going to need something else, Lord. Right. You can't. And what Dennis Rodman was doing at a sperm clinic, I have no idea.

I don't think we should ask. I don't I don't think we need to know. Doug is going to kill me for telling the story, but I'm going to tell the story anyway. So we did we did IVF for our babies and it's a long story, but we did. And so he apparently like, and maybe, you know, this, but like, let's say you're going to do the, um, I don't know, the transfer or like whatever the sperm is going to be needed by the doctor on a Friday. So it like matters when you give the sperm to the doctor and it matters when the previous, forgive me, but ejaculation happened. And it's all like down to a science. And the doctor will tell you, like, make sure the last time you guys have sex is like two days before he comes in to give the deposit. So you're like, oh, wow, there's a lot to remember.

OK, well, we kind of forgot we were busy, whatever. And we at that time. You're having a good time. No, no, we weren't. Well, kind of, but not the way you think. We went to see my Nana, my Nana, who at that point, I don't know where this is going, but this just got weird. We went to see my Nana, who at the time I think was like 97. And she was in her senior citizen's house and her little apartment. And the three of us are there playing dominoes.

And out of the blue, I remember, Oh, this was, we're at the 48 hours mark. This is it right now. I look at Doug. I'm like, you got to go into that bathroom right there and take care of business. He's like, what? Go take care of it. He's like, I can't do it. I can't, I can't. And of course it's's like an old person's home. And so like the the distance between the floor and the bottom of the bathroom door is like four inches. Oh, God. He went there and he can hear me and Nana playing the dominoes and Nana being like a one or a two. You know, like she's all her mannerisms. And she's like, what's taking Dougoug so long he must have a bellyache i think he does man i think something's wrong with him let's just give him some time

wow he finally emerges he's like i cannot believe you just made me do that but you know what the end story is we it worked because we got pregnant. It worked out just fine. Wait a minute. You got to finish this story. So he does this. Now you got to rush. You got to leave Nana in the dust. No, no, no, no.

He didn't do it in a cup. He just had to, he just had to do it. So that like when he had to do it for real, everybody would be 48 hours old. That's what I got you right. They want you to have this window, this ejaculation window. Sperm that's like 48 hours old is like the strongest sperm, I guess. Probably every fertility doctor at home right now is saying wrong, Kelly, wrong. But that's basically the rule. They wanted it to be like 48 hours before the real deposit had to be made. And poor Doug, he's going to kill me for telling you this story.

He did not kill me. I don't think, I don't, I don't know if he was thrilled, but he said it would be okay. I did run it by him before we actually aired it. At some point, we'll get a fertility doctor on to actually fact check the story. No, I know that it's true. But until then, we'll keep bringing you clips, making you laugh, making you think, ideally.

And that is from the archives. Now, back to Carlos Watson right after this. I'm very concerned about the way things are going right now, Carlos, because I feel like the messaging is changing on this. And, you know, I talked about some of the BLM protests when I came on your show with Katie Kay. But here's my here's my concern in a nutshell on that stuff. I feel like BLM and sort of the moment was ripe for a true racial reckoning where where the country was paying attention after the death of George Floyd in a way that they hadn't been before. Like what what what is really is really going on? Have we been missing something? You know, this is, this tape is so disturbing. And there was a moment of togetherness. I mean, there were riots and so on happening too, but there was also a moment of togetherness. And I feel like it was, it was ruined because of overreach because of, you know, I taught, I said this to you when I came on your show in the same way, the Me Too movement was essentially ruined by critical race theory being introduced in the schools and white kids being told they're white supremacists when they're seven.

And, you know, the head of BLM out there buying four mansions and millions of dollars. And it's like it was ruined in a way that it might not have had to be right. Like, I don't think everybody's going to agree on systemic racism. Not everybody's going to agree on the cops and all that. But there could have been more advancement in a more together way than there is right now, because now people are getting so polarized. It's like, yeah, no, forget it. I'm out and going back to my corner. I hope that people don't stay in their corner, because I still think that, you know, even though it was born out of something painful, the conversation that started last spring, summer is still the brightest, liveliest, most engaged conversation that I've seen in my lifetime about race and fairness and equality and possibility. And so I hope that it doesn't go away.

It's funny, I am geeky enough to listen to old speeches. And some of the old speeches I love to listen to are Martin Luther King Jr. speeches. And not just the I Have a Dream speech, but a whole suite of speeches that he gave across the years. And in the speech he gave the night before he died, he talked about the early 60s. And he literally goes through and he talks about all the young people in the summer of 61, and the summer of 62, and the summer of 63. And as you hear him talk about it, you're reminded that it wasn't just a one and done. Do you know what I mean? That having an important conversation and making change happen in terms of kids getting to go to school, people being able to vote,

you know, a whole suite of other things took real and sustained work. And so I hope that we will have another fresh set of conversations. I think that it will be hard to have them because people are coming from very different places. I think it is very important that a wide range of people, including you and me, if people assume that we can be valuable to it, which I hope we can be, are a part of those conversations. And it's funny, the other day I had a young man who's in his early 20s who's running for the city council in New York, Chi Osei, who's black, very progressive. And I had a woman named Mika Mosbacher, who Texan, strong supporter of President Trump, white in her in her 60s. And they ended up having a really good and genuine and substantive conversation. And I think they both were warmly surprised about the areas that they agreed on.

They didn't agree on all. And I'm not trying to do fake kumbaya. But they ended up in a really good conversation about the way forward and some opportunities to agree on things. And so I'm hopeful that more of that can happen. I candidly did not feel like President Trump facilitated that. I think he ended up being a, I think he made good conversation and good debate over things harder as opposed to, and I don't just mean race, I mean, a variety of things, as opposed to making it more likely. So, and again, maybe I'm being Pollyannish, but I am optimistic. Like, we have to do better on questions of race than we've done as a country. Like, we absolutely have to do better.

Okay, but let me ask you this. Let me ask you this, because in having those conversations, like you are having those conversations in a respectful way. I am also trying to do that. But I will tell you that, you know, and if you're going to have a conversation about race relations and how to improve them in America. Then you need all voices to weigh in. Right. You can't like white voices also do need to matter in the conversation. What happens is a white woman, if you disagree with our white man, if you disagree with some of this stuff, you know what happens? Racist. You're a racist, right? Like if you try to say, I don't want critical race theory in my school. I don't want my third grader being told to deconstruct his racial identity and rank himself according to his power. You know, like I don't want him to be told

that he's dominant and that, you know, has to apologize for the color of his skin over which he has no control. All that stuff is happening and it's happening coast to coast. That is worth fighting for, for me to get that out of our schools. Like I feel like I'm not having this conversation about this. This needs to be removed hard stop. And it's been a distraction from the larger issue. You know, I've got strong feelings on the police and some of the misinformation that's been out there on them. I'm not saying they're perfect, trust me. But this thing is cancerous. And I just feel like, why aren't we talking about it? Why can't we talk about it, whites, blacks, community members, as the cancer that it is.

So what I would say to you is I would say to you I want to have a conversation about that because I think I probably disagree with you on a good bit of that, meaning that I think that we do need to change our curriculum. And I would say to you, I would probably want to have a conversation with you about, do you think that what we are currently teaching in our schools is enough? I assume you'd probably say no. You probably would agree that we probably need to change it. And I would say to you, okay, let's talk about how we could change it. And I would say, let me put down some of the things I think we should talk about. And I think there should be a good conversation about that. And if you said to me, hey, Carlos, hard stop, I don't want to go there. I'd say, I probably candidly would say to

you, let's not say hard stop yet. I probably would say to you, let's go to the whiteboard, figurative whiteboard, virtual whiteboard. Let's talk about the half dozen things that I think would be game changers to have real conversation on. And let's see if we can agree. And you and I may not agree on all six. Maybe we could only agree on three. And so I'd probably be inclined to say, great, let's get started with the three. But you have different rails up. You have different guardrails up right now because I'm talking about critical race theory, which is Marxist, which is very demeaning, which is disempowering to blacks and whites. That is a non-starter. Race relations, Chloe Valdory, how do we lift up black students and empower young black people to understand the history while educating white

people on the history in a very real way that's not totally demoralizing and blaming six-year-olds of today for the sins of their fathers years and years and years ago. Yes, we can totally do that and should do that. But what's happening right now in our schools is something very different. And I don't know if you have kids, but there are a lot of members of the black community now that are speaking out about this. In Virginia, a black woman saying, how dare you? How dare you speak to my child in this way? These lesson plans are disempowering, that whites have all the advantages, that my black child has none of them, that my black child can't learn, and so on and so forth. That stuff is, it's got to go. It's just got to go. It's the same thing as teaching whites that they should be racist, right? It's like that we wouldn't converse about that. We would just say it's got to go, period. Well, one of the things I will say is that I think that for a variety of reasons, there are a whole set of conversations about, and right now we're talking about race and economics,

but to be really clear, I think that there are a bunch of very controversial topics that we also should be talking about that include robots and clones and all sorts of other things. And so I, exactly. And I think there are actually a whole suite of real, and so part of what I think I would probably say, and I'm thinking real time here with you, is I probably would sooner say to you, because I hear people say things about critical race theory or I hear people say this, that, don't know. I'm not sure that I can really describe what critical race theory is. So before I would say it's a hard no, I probably would say to someone, hey, walk me through what that is so that I can really decide whether that is a hard no for me, whether it's this parts of it are really valuable and that parts of it we shouldn't do. And I'm not sure that that always happens. And so probably one of the things that I would argue for, because I do feel like we're going into what Ray Bradbury call it a brave new world. I do feel like the next decade is going to have so many controversial things that we do have to have a good way to like explore, understand and pursue really controversial things. I was having a conversation about crypto and watching the conversation. Another thing I just don't understand. Well, exactly.

But, you know, for the last couple of years, I've watched Jamie Dimon, who I have a lot of respect for, and a lot of CEO Chase and a lot of others talk about crypto and dismiss it and say no. And Lloyd Blankfein, former CEO of Goldman, who I know is mentor, friend, you know, where they were five years ago, if I'd fully listened to them, I would have dismissed it. Right. And and I did, which is why I don't own Bitcoin or Ethereum or Dogecoin or any of the stuff that I should have owned, probably. And so before I quickly agree that whatever the hot button thing of the moment is totally off, like, I want you to explain it to me first, right? And then I want to have a conversation around it and i just in general am more inclined to um to try to understand is there anything in what you're offering uh that is beneficial so i don't know whether you're you're right or wrong about that particular uh guardrail and i don't have kids yet i'm saying yet even

though i'm a little long in the tooth and maybe late in the game, but I'm hoping that I'll get a shot before it's all over. But but and so I'm sure that there is a moment for you as a mother with your kids that that I can't quite fully comprehend and be there with yet. But that's, Megan, I think that would also be one of my wishes in that I would rather hear, like, if someone says defund the police, like, before people say, hell no, we won't go, I want to say, hey, tell me what you mean by that. Tell me how you're coming to that. Tell me what the goals of that are. And then I want to have a good conversation about that with a variety of people. And that would be a little bit of what I want. And so one of my laments about some of these hottest issues is that, and I don't want to turn into a school room, but I'd love to do at least a little bit

of making sure that people understand what it is we're talking about before it immediately ends up in the dustbin. Well, that's that. I mean, I would say that this is the problem with CRT. I understand it very well. We've been doing lots of shows on it, so we could spend all day discussing it. But and I've done my homework as as as just a caring citizen and as a mom. But I think most people haven't. Most people hear it used, they hear words like diversity and anti-racism and they're like, yes, I'm in favor of those things.

And then when you look, when you really drill down on what they're doing, it's completely damaging. It's very unhealthy and it's going to come back to haunt us. It's exactly the opposite of what Martin Luther King wanted. Exactly the opposite. And I understand some people say King was wrong throughout what he said. We should we we we aren't

colorblind and to pretend otherwise is pointless. And the little black boy and a little white boy walking down the street holding hands was a nice dream, but they get they have to be ever conscious of race. And that's just a I don't agree with any of that. I'm much more than Martin Luther King feels. So is Glenn Lowry and John McWhorter and all these people. But it's a big debate that we're having right now. And I think on a larger scale, we can talk about systemic racism. We can talk about, you know, solving problems. But when it comes to this cancer, it's got to get out.

All right, let me shift gears. And I'll steal the final word on that for today to be continued. So let me ask you what you think then is the future for our industry, having started your own company. I mean, the ratings of these cable news companies are spiraling downward. Here's just one example. In January 2021, CNN had 2.7 million viewers in primetime, which is huge for them. That's because it was impeachment 2.0 and the riots and all this stuff bad for Trump. Now less than 800,000 in the overall, in the overall, I mean, I would be getting 800,000 in the demo 25 to 54 when I was back in the Kelly file to get that in the overall, I would

have been fired. My ass would have been out the door. So that's just one example, but they're all going down. And post Trump, they're really going down. It's like, like everybody was like, we hate him, we hate him. But now it's like ratings collapse. They're like, was he all bad? Was he, was he, was it all terrible?

Maybe we could take it back for one more turn. So what do you think happens to our industry when you say we're going to have a couple of big media companies? Like, is it podcasting? Does cable go away? What's the, what's the influential platform of the future? I think you and I fast forward in 2024 or 2025. I think in the US, there'll be lots of different choices, but I bet you in the news space, there'll be four or five major players that don't exist. I do believe in podcasting and audio.

I mean, uh, a mix of podcasts of radio shows of kind of interactive audio spaces, um, of, of more briefs from, um, uh, almost kind of like audio Ted talks, a whole suite of things. I think those will, will end up being really important. I think someone's going to crack it with gaming. I don't know if you have anyone in your life who likes gaming or e-gaming or e-sports. My lawyer and one of my dear friends represents the biggest gamer ever. And I'm learning bit by bit on how huge this industry is, how it dwarfs everything we do. Oh my God, you think,

you know, you get like a hit on YouTube. Forget it. You look at what these gamers get. It's like hundreds of millions of views on their YouTube videos. Yeah. Someone is going to, in the same way that Jon Stewart kind of brought a comedic approach to news and so really turned the daily show into something special for a while there. Someone is going to take the best of online gaming and e-sports and the rest and bring that to news. And so I think that's also going to end, I think, honestly, is going to be age generational. I just think that even more and even more than millennial, I think Gen Z, I think they are that different than Gen X, than boomers, that I think you'll see more stratification based on we just consume things differently and at a different speed. And they may have different lengths. They may be different lengths they may be shorter

they may have more music in them uh uh in some cases they may be more documentary style which i know sounds contradictory um uh but but i think it will feel more like uh rich entertainment uh than like um than your mother's or your father's news and so i I'm hopeful. I just feel like it's going to shift from, to use an old school analogy, it's going to shift from like ABC to Spotify. No, I believe that because think about it. Like right now, I don't watch cable news at all. I haven't in years, frankly, since I got out of it. And I don't find it appetizing at all. I just feel like it's skinny and it's empty calories and they're just trying to work me up. And I know the game. I've lived the game for a long time and I'm not playing that game anymore. And so one of the things about

what you do, what I'm doing now too, this industry is, it is very friendly. It's user-friendly, old people and young, but you can do it on the go. You don't have to be sitting in front of Fox News at 9 p.m. anymore. Like if you want to hear me, you could listen to me whenever you want. Same with you. Like I'm just going to download the Carlos Watson show today and I'll watch part of it on the subway or I'll watch part of it in my taxi ride home, whatever it is. It's so much more consistent with the way we live our lives now. Well, and to your point, one of the other things I think that will happen

is networks like Ozzy, I think will increasingly find talent, whether it's a Megyn Kelly who's well-known or someone who's up and coming and bring them in. And just like HBO a generation ago, will kind of start anew and kind of redefine it. And so I'm excited that there are all these wonderful creators out there. And at Ozzy, one of the big things that we're doing over, you know, we've spent most of our first half dozen years kind

of building stuff internally ourselves. And now we're beginning to look outside and we're saying, who's out there who's super talented, who's doing stuff on their own, that if Aussie could be to them what Fox News was to you, meaning a platform that would hero you, elevate you, promote you, facilitate things, that real magic could ensue. I think you're going to see that a little bit as well. And again, I think this is a nice moment, at least for a young company like Ozzy, where I feel like there's so many talented people out there. And so part of our mission over the next year is to find a half dozen people who we really think are shining brightly, who we think if they came together with the Ozzy platform,

everybody would win. I like that. All right. But now while you're doing that, you've got to be finding love too, if you want to have those children. So what's the story there? Are you in the market? I mean, I know a lot of people. You know what?

I love you. I am not in the market. I am happily taken. And we have just been slow to it. But I'm hopeful. I'm not going to leave this earth without a couple of kids. Hopefully we will have a couple and maybe even adopt. Megan, I've always wanted to adopt.

I came from a family with four kids. And so if we were lucky enough to have two and then adopted two, that would be a, that'd be a good thing. I love your plan. I think, look, somebody like you needs to be a dad. You, you need to bring children in this world, however you want to do it via adoption or otherwise, because we need more good people having more kids, right? Like the birth rate's low. Everybody's worried about the birth rate. I'm like, you know what we do as somebody who's getting old, I do want more in the younger generation. Who else am I going to depend on? And, uh, your gene pool should be reproduced. You know, I thank you for that. I am looking forward to that. It would, uh, it would keep

me young and I definitely will end up being hopefully a both fun and annoying dad. So I'm ready to do both. Oh, you can create your own new Robin. You could still be Batman. You can create a bunch of little Robins. There you go. There you go. Lots of love, Carlos. Thank you for coming on. Megan, thank you for always having me. And I hope you let me say that I love your boldness and I love that you are doing this show. And I love that you looked up, took a deep breath and said, what can I create? As opposed to only looking around and saying, who can I join? And so, you know, they always say you never know who's watching you and who's drawing inspiration from you.

And so count me as one of those folks who was excited to see you do what you're doing. And it inspires me to be a little more entrepreneurial. Oh, you're such a gentleman. Thank you so much for the compliment. How sweet you are. Listen, let's not say goodbye. Let's say to be continued. To be continued. I'll be the same as they say. Download, rate, five stars. Give me a little review there, would you? Give me a one-liner. Give me a two-paragrapher. I'm not picky. I'll take it either way, but I love to hear from you. And we'll talk again on Wednesday. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. The Megyn Kelly Show is a Devil May Care media production

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