The Megyn Kelly Show - Charlie Kirk on Tucker Carlson's True Brand Value, AOC's Funeral Selfies, DeSantis' Mistakes, and Why RNC Leaders Should Go | Ep. 555

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point USA and host of The Charlie Kirk Show, to talk about Al Sharpton's divisive racial rhetoric at Jordan Neely's funeral, AOC taking selfies there, how Tucker Carlson helped stop the bleeding after the 2020 election, Fox News learning the true brand value of Tucker Carlson and what they don't understood about its audience, new reporting about gender ideology policy and "preferred pronouns" at Fox News, why Harry and Meghan are mascots for a woke movement, how they're trying to deconstruct the Royal institution but reap its benefits, their paparazzi hoax, Sen. Tim Scott announcing a presidential run in the GOP primary and his inspiring message, the growing GOP field, whether Gov. Ron DeSantis has a shot against Trump, the NAACP's "travel advisory" telling people not to visit Florida over DeSantis, why RNC Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel is a "loser" who needs to go, the DNC's more advanced infrastructure and lack of grassroots efforts by the RNC to use tactics like "ballot chasing," a new high school trans athlete taking the spot of a biological girl, the uniting force of anti-woke, getting his start at just 18-years-old, fighting back on college campuses, bringing young people optimism over pessimism, the work ethic he grew up with, and more.Kirk's show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-charlie-kirk-show/id1460600818Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Monday. Let's make it as happy as a Monday can be. It's going to be a big week in GOP 2024 politics. We're getting into it now. Senator Tim Scott will formally enter the race today, armed with some big endorsements. And Governor Ron DeSantis is expected to make it official later this week, too, at last. He's running. Well, we kind of knew that, but he's said to be making it official, as I say, finally. Plus, new details are emerging over the weekend about the

forces behind Tucker Carlson's firing at Fox News and more specifically, more details on those leaks. The drip, drip, drip of leaks that miraculously dried right up after his lawyer, Brian Friedman, sent them a nasty gram saying, I will be seeking in discovery every single correspondence you've had on your leaking. Oh, it's a miracle how that then stopped the whole leaking problem. We're going to get to it all with a first-time guest here on The Megyn Kelly Show, a huge force in the conservative movement and media. Charlie Kirk is the founder of Turning Point USA and the host of The Charlie Kirk Show. Charlie, welcome to the show. Megyn, honor to be here. Thanks so much.

It's great to have you. You know, it's fun preparing for these things when I have somebody on for the first time because I learned so much about the guest that I didn't know. I did not realize you are not even 30 years old. My God. You started this when you were 18? That's right. I feel as if I'm getting too old for this stuff, though. I'll tell you, a decade in politics, you age considerably. I can't believe I'm not 30 either. Yeah, started when I was 18 in the suburbs of Chicago. I had plans to go to college, and instead I took a gap year. And it's been a gap decade and a year on top of about 11 years. And it's been the most amazing journey, just full of blessings and beyond my wildest imagination. So, yeah, 29 years old, soon to be 30.

But experienced a lot in the last decade. Very thankful, very blessed. You guys are everywhere. Turning Point USA, it's everywhere. You see like the Riley Gaines confrontation out in San Francisco. It's like there via Turning Point. We had on Ian Hayworth, I think it was for the confrontation at SUNY Albany, where he got shouted down. Turning Points. It's like you've had such an impact in ways our audience probably doesn't even realize how much of the content in today's news has effectively

been brought to them because of you guys making sure these voices are heard. And is it exclusively on college campuses, Charlie? Well, it's grown beyond that. Yeah, I mean, it's been an amazing kind of thing to see the last couple of years. I mean, for example, a couple of years ago, we started with Candace Owens on campuses, and now she's a huge force to be reckoned with. And Brandon Tatum and Ana Paulina, who's now a member of Congress, actually started with us. She got her start in kind of conservative world, visiting college campuses, and now she's an incredibly dynamic congresswoman, the youngest ever Hispanic Latina to be elected. And yes, of course, the Riley Gaines situation. And so you

had all started with high school and college campuses, and now it's grown to churches and parents groups and homeschool associations and influencers. And I mean, our big mission statement at Turning Point USA is pretty simple. We want to make sure that our grandkids live in America that we can recognize. We want our grandkids to love America. We believe in a free society. We believe in the Constitution, rule of law, pretty standard stuff, stuff that shouldn't really be that controversial. I mean, I have personal views that sometimes can get people rather excited. But as an organization, our views are center right. It's about the American founding, the declaration, free markets, private property rights. And it's really kind of grown into this force beyond my wildest imaginations that have empowered hundreds of thousands of young people and certain people you've that is increasingly going in a troubling and negative

direction of anti-Americanism, of anti-capitalism. We call it wokeism. We can explore that, which really is just repurposed left-wing nonsense of the 60s and 70s and put through a different lens. And our vision is much more optimistic, much more positive, talking about how you can live a flourishing and fulfilling life in this nation. And going to these campuses has been illuminating, especially for the last couple of years. I've personally spoken over 120 college campuses

from all across the country, from Brown to Stanford. And you learn a lot about the issues and the challenges facing a generation when you do that. But Turning Point USA is now really the premier organization for all ages fighting for the ideas of freedom, liberty, and American exceptionalism. Yeah, you guys, and you're in the belly of the beast because you're going where the indoctrination is at its peak. These college campuses, that's where they're getting them. And a lot of these kids don't even realize there's an alternative. There are a lot of young people who don't feel this way. There's a conservative alternative point of view that's

available to you. And I was thinking about you last week when that study came out showing that some huge amount of young liberals are depressed and in therapy know, in therapy and need help. And, and I was like, you know what, that's because that's what they're leaning into right now. That's what their messengers are telling them to lean into victimhood, upset, sadness. And the conservative vision is so much more optimistic, hopeful, empowering. It didn't always used to be this way. You know, I had RFK Jr. on the show a few times now, but in his first long interview that we did back in March of 21, he was saying how grown up Kennedy, you know, the son of RFK, the grandfather, Joseph Kennedy in that family was like,

no whining in this house. Get out. Whiners, get out. Right? Like that was a tough family that raised. Yeah, that's right. You're not allowed to say that anymore. But now it's like this is sort of getting divided along party lines. No, that's right. And to kind of piggyback on what you say on the depression, I mean, it makes sense in a certain extent. So you have an entire political movement that says your history sucks and it's awful. So you have nothing to be thankful for that came before you. Your actions really won't improve your life, right?

So that if you try to lose weight or save money, none of it matters because meritocracy doesn't actually exist. And by the way, the world's going to end in 10 years because of climate change. Yeah, I mean, I'd be depressed too. And to substitute for all that, just do as many substances as you want. No matter what, you could do as much marijuana, as much psychedelic drugs, and have as much free sex as possible. Do not restrain any of your impulses. Well, just from the simplest reading of psychology, that's really dumb to tell a 19 year old to do because then they all of a sudden ask the question of what is true? What is meaningful? Maybe I should, you know, engage self-control more than self-esteem. And so then, yes, you do create the most depressed, suicidal, alcohol addicted and

drug addicted generation in history. And there is a political component to it, which people don't always want to pinpoint, which is conservatives are just happier. And not every conservative is happy and not every liberal is mad or angry or depressed. argue with reality, people that tend to not wage war on the natural law, you're going to fit probably neater into the harmony of the cosmos than someone that is committed with evangelistic zeal and fervor that men can give birth. That would drive me mad too, to try to make that work. You're never going to make that work. No matter how many pharmacological agents, no matter how many textbooks, no matter how much propaganda, you're going to end up in a state of madness. St. Augustine had a great quote where he said, if you argue with reality, welcome to hell. And a lot of young people are in hell. And I feel for them.

And so when we go to these campuses, Megan, the biggest problem that we have is we can't find rooms big enough to fit all the students that want to attend our speeches. And they don't all agree with what I have to say. I mean, I have very strong opinions and they're considered to be triggering thought crimes. But what's amazing is, okay, a couple dozen will walk out because they're so triggered. But there's a lot of kids that stay there that might disagree. They think they disagree with what I'm saying and they'll listen and they'll listen. And very similar to Ben Shapiro, who deserves a lot of credit for being kind of a pioneer with this and same with Steven Crowder, will invite anybody who disagrees to the front of the line and they can say whatever they want

to me. And we have question and answer for 40, 45 minutes. And what is positive, what is heartwarming to me and what gives me encouragement is that over a period of time, just an hour and a half, we can make serious inroads to all of a sudden put forward a pro-reality, pro-American, rather moderate viewpoint, which is I'm not going to condemn you if we disagree. I think disagreement is what makes life fun. You mentioned RFK Jr. He's a Democrat that I hope does very well because I agree with him on some things. I certainly disagree with him on others, but he's interesting. He's provocative. He's willing to challenge the power structures. He's not just the same regime talking points repurposed by chat GPT to try to win over,

you know, some sort of swing voter. He's an independent thinker. He's a free spirit. And so I think that the conservative side has not just become the rebellious side, but it's honestly the more interesting side. And I think you see that in the ascendance of independent media and the collapse of corporate media. And that is the ethos we bring to our work every single day at Turning Point USA. So you mentioned your background from Illinois. Were you born and raised there? Because how did you, you know, yes, it's the heartland.

But when we think of Illinois, we think of Chicago, which is very, very blue, very, very left. It's got some more right-leaning suburbs. What were you in a suburb of Chicago? Where were you in Illinois? And how did you get this way? Yeah, Wheeling High School. So there's been a lot of, let's just say, mixed exports from Illinois. Ronald Reagan is from Illinois. Obviously, Barack Obama calls Chicago home. Hillary Clinton went to high school right down the street from where I went, Maine East High School. So we just ignored that growing up. Bill Ayers? Yeah, Bill Ayers. That's right. Valerie Jarrett, David Axelrod. I could keep going.

There's been a lot that has come from Chicago. Yeah, that's exactly right. Illinois and Chicago produce its fair share of a mixed bag of political figures. A couple of things. First of all, I grew up huge fan of your show. Always. You always did a fabulous job. I was a Rush guy at 16 years old. I was told by my local friends in the community, adults, don't listen to Rush Limbaugh. Don't listen to him on WLS. And so it was considered to be provocative and rebellious. And I remember turning on 890 WLS. I was like, wow, this guy is speaking to me. And I was always patriotic. I was always more political than not. And Rush just totally radicalized me. I was like, this guy is everything.

So I would remember being in my lunch break, just kind of leaving my friends to go do whatever they were doing at lunch break. I would just sit in my car and listen to Rush Limbaugh for 20 minutes. He's bashing on Obama. I mean, he was the best, right? I mean, he was the gold standard. And then I got into Glenn Beck and Mark Levin and all these huge voices that I now call friends, which is just amazing to me. But yeah, Heartland guy, my parents center, right? Amazing parents. And I had every anticipation to go to college. As I mentioned, that didn't work out. And the one thing I'll say about my upbringing is I was always told,

you gotta work harder than the other guy. You have to put in more hours. And I can honestly say after a decade, that's kind of what I'm known for is more speeches, more podcasts, more tour stops, more cities traveled. I traveled for 330 days a year for a decade. I'm a million mile flyer in United and American, almost there in Delta. And I can honestly say

that I've traveled the country. Not every port, not every geographic area of America has that as a core value. And there's something about that Midwestern work ethic that I think is special and has definitely been has definitely been a competitive edge for me. And I lived in Chicago for five years, and I have some dear friends from the Midwest from the time when I lived there. And some of them are left, for sure. They are leftist Democrats, but they're not woke. They're reasonable. They're cool. They're middle America is just, they have a sense of reason and what's what that those who are living on the Upper West side of New York do not have. And it's, it's a delight because you're, it's like, oh, okay. So we're going to have a debate on abortion. Great. Let's do that. That's fine. I know this

debate. This is a debate we've been having, you know, since well time immemorial, but talking about whether as Dan Bongino put it on my show on Friday, you should cut off the nuts of a nine-year-old boy. No, hey, whoa, we're in a different territory now. And my friends out there would not debate me on that. They'd be with you and me and Dan on that. That's correct. Yeah, I mean, except some of the kind of really,

let's just say radicalized people in Highland Park. I mean, they're in their own world. But I'll say this and people laugh. I still think that the DNA, the fiber of the suburbs of Chicago, the collar counties in particular, right? DuPage, Lake, Will and parts of Cook and McHenry are center right. I mean, the upbringing I had was a center right upbringing, even though that people might have been Democrats or Republicans. There was a insistence that you're going to work harder than the other guy. Stop blaming other people. Right. There was an insistence that you need a robust middle class. And I look back that all these silly Republican Democrat labels mean nothing. And there needs to be a properly articulated mass movement against this woke

parasitic ideology. I believe it can unite 70 to 80% of the country. I don't care if it's from the Republican side or from RFK. I think it is the existential threat to our republic. It is so against everything that is our core values of delayed gratification and working hard and being generous to others and not blaming the society for your circumstances. And I totally agree. I mean, I look at most people I know in Chicago that I grew up to that are quote, that grew up with that are quote unquote Democrats. And I'd say, well, do you think men can give birth? And they'd be like, what are you insulting me? Right. And these are plumbers and welders and electricians and police officers. And they, they might just be multi-decade Democrats. And then they have some built-in

presumptions and prejudices against what they think Republicans are. But what needs to be continually articulated, you do a wonderful job of this, Megan, is that this woke stuff is not a game. This is not patty cake. This is not time for happy talk. This stuff is capturing our major institutions, if not patty cake. This is not time for happy talk. This stuff is capturing our major institutions, if not just capturing, has captured most of our major institutions. And it is inherently totalitarian. It is at odds with a free society and everything that we believe America is and should be. This is a weird place to kick off the substantive discussion, but I've got to raise it here because everything you just said had these two blurring in my head. Harry and Megan, let's just start there because

I think all the things you just said are the reasons people hate them. They hate them in the UK and they hate them here too now. They have a below water approval rating in America too. Working hard, that's an American value. No sense of entitlement. That used to be one of our values. Blame yourself, not others. That used to be one of our values. And they're the opposite of all of that. There was a report. Everybody heard about to be Diana. She's no Diana. And, um, they decided to release some statement that, I mean, it's incredible. They released the statement through their PR person saying it was a near catastrophic two hour car chase through Manhattan, which is a lie. You cannot have that. It's impossible. Lived in Manhattan for 17 years, not possible. Um, and I said at the time, if there was anything close to two hours between these two and the paparazzi, it was by choice because you can pull over anywhere in Manhattan and get away from the paparazzi.

And they didn't. And now we know that's true because what we are told by page six of The New York Post is they were too cheap to pay for a hotel room at the Carlisle, which is where Diana used to stay and where he wanted to stay. And I guess these two have stayed there in the past, but it's eight thousand dollars a night if you want to stay in the Royal Suite and they didn't want to do it. And the Carlisle wouldn't give them a discounted rate, so they stayed at a friend's house. And the NYPD told the New York Post if they had just paid for some reasonable room at the Carlisle, this could have been avoided. They would have gone into the hotel, it would have been done. They didn't want to do it. And now in the wake of all this, we have them actually firing off a legal threat, Charlie, to the paparazzi on Friday, this hit demanding that the paparazzi, the handful of them that were trying to get a picture of these two turn over their photographs to Megan and Harry. We demand that you give us copies of all photos, videos,

and or films taken last night by freelance photographers after we left our event. And they sent this to the back grid photo agency via their legal team. So it's absolutely insane as she, he may be a Brit, but she well knows as an American, we have freedom of the press here. You have no freaking right to the press's photographs of you and in some brilliant brilliant response here the back grid legal uh representative the lawyer i'll just read it in part because it's so good charlie uh writes back in america as i'm sure you know property belongs to the owner of it third parties cannot just demand that it be given to them as perhaps kings do perhaps you should sit

down with your client and advise them that his english rules of royal prerogative to demand that it be given to them as perhaps kings do. Perhaps you should sit down with your client and advise them that his English rules of royal prerogative to demand that the citizenry hand over their property to the crown were rejected by this country long ago. We stand by our founding fathers. Yes. So that the reason people can't stand them and are still somewhat interested in them are, yes, royals. but also they represent everything most of us in this country stand against. They they want all the privileges of being royal, but none of the responsibilities.

And there are responsibilities. I mean, Queen Elizabeth was beyond regal. She was she was a hero and she took it very, very seriously, never complaining, never saying a crossword. They want to live a life of luxury, but they also, simultaneously, they want to be able to deconstruct the institution around them. You see, and that's a great point, Megan, which is they represent everything that is a threat to the West in some manner, because do they have some? I got in a lot of trouble about a year and a half ago.

You'll get a kick out of this where I don't comment on the royal stuff a lot. But when Meghan Markle came out and you'll know the details better than I do, I'm grasping at some of the memory. She said that people said something racist to me or something, you know, in Buckingham Palace. And they said, oh, we don't like you because of a skin color. Not in that essence, right? Or that she was accusing. And I said, I think she's a liar. I think she's Jussie Smollett. I think she's making it up. I said, you're misrepresenting in a way to try to get clicks and headlines to try to deconstruct the integrity and the trust of one of the last institutions of the West that people actually enjoy, whether for the weddings, coronation, and it has some semblance of a tradition that

came before you and they are focused on trying to deconstruct that. And part of why I'm a conservative is instead of trying to tear down everything that has come before us, maybe we should take pause and ask ourselves the question of what are we going to replace it with? And maybe it's been there for a while for a reason. You see, as conservatives, we want to pass down the best, the best art, the best music, the best traditions, the proper manners, proper language, proper literature. And what Harry and Meghan do, and again, I don't talk about it very openly a lot because I consider them to be kind of a petulant sideshow. At the same time, it's incredibly important because they are mascots

for a woke movement that is philosophically determined to deconstruct the West. And they want the high life. And if they can't afford an $8,000 a night room, well, look, maybe Harry's book didn't do as well as he thought it would. And I think that they're seeing the popularity reservoir dry up. I think they anticipated tens of millions of dollars and huge Netflix deals, and I'm sure they're doing okay. But if I were to make a guess between, you know, what they thought they were making and the popularity I think they thought they would receive, I think they are falling far, far short. Therefore, they have to try to make up scandals

where they do not exist and do the one thing that low talent hacks always resort to in American public life, become a victim and stage your own hoax. That's what Jesse Smollett did. And that's what they've done. Yes. My God, that's exactly right. It's so annoying. And New Yorkers know better. You can't pull that shit here. Like we know, we know our city. This is not possible. And by the way, so many more famous people than you have come through New York without incident. They may have been chased by a couple of paparazzi. You know what they don't do?

They don't turn it into a fake two-hour ordeal and then have their PR person contact all the papers to say, I was victimized. Poor me. Near catastrophic. Not catastrophic, but near, near. Trust me. So, yes, I agree with you on everything you just said. Now, elsewhere in New York City, there was an incident, a real one, that has made news now for two weeks. And that is the subway chokehold, or I don't know if it was technically a chokehold, but subway incident between Jordan Neely and Daniel Penny.

Daniel Penny is the former Marine who got this crazed homeless guy in a headlock and subdued him after threatening a train full of passengers over and over in a very aggressive way, save third parties on board that subway car who don't even know the defendant in this case. Nonetheless, DA Alvin Bragg is charged. Mr. Neely, sorry, Mr. Penny, Daniel Penny, with second degree manslaughter. And in the buildup to all of this, he's been dismissed as a white supremacist because the Marine is white. The man who he subdued and ultimately inadvertently killed was black. And the left wants to tell us that this that the guy who was killed was a Michael Jackson impersonator. He's just a sweet guy without referencing his long criminal history and threatening history and what the other passengers are saying about what he was doing on board. Well, now Daniel Penney comes out. This is again via the New York

Post and says this had nothing to do with race. I am not a white supremacist. They're going right to their standard playbook. Right. He can't just be a guy even in their version. Their version could be he overreacted. He took it too far. Right. He used extreme force. No, they've got to bring race into it for zero reason. There's not even an allegation of a word of racial animus, nothing. They just made it up because of the skin colors. He was asked if he has anything to be ashamed of. He said, I don't. I mean, I always do what I think is right. Um, and then you've got this Charlie Al Sharpton who inserts himself on every single one of these who somehow gets to speak. He eulogizes, uh, Jordan Neely. Like he didn't know Jordan Neely. Al Sharpton makes everything about himself, gets up there and consistent with your theme of the left. They lie. They don't, they don't stick to the

facts. They don't admit reality when it's staring them in the face. Tries to tell us there was zero provocation, zero provocation for what Daniel Penny did in getting Neely under control on that subway train. Listen to Al Sharpton at the funeral on Friday at SOT 7. We can't live in a city where you can choke me to death with no provocation, no weapon, no threat, and you go home and sleep in your bed while my family got to put me in a cemetery. There must be equal justice under the law. What do you make of it? Oh, Al Charlatan, there is not a race hoax that he tries to insert himself into. For the people, first of all, I know this sounds bad. People that lose like 100 pounds immediately, I inherently, I'm kind of like a little distraught. I miss fat Al Sharpton. I actually trust him. He was jollier. He was jollier. He's just become an angry, bitter, failed television

cable TV host. Anyway, that's mean. I don't know if that's mean or not. It's just true. I don't know. Like mean is when you say it with the intention of hurting someone. Then there's just truth. I'm just being factual. Then there's just truth. Yeah, so look,

the Al Charlton thing aside, let me focus on the Penny because I think it's the Penny story because I think it's really important. Megan, you would remember this. Do you remember all the uproar over the Kitty Genovese story where the young lady was raped and there was this idea of where's the good Samaritan right now? It turned out that some of it was misrepresented for the younger listeners that don't know the story.

It was allegedly a woman that was raped in an alleyway and that like 30 or 40 onlookers heard it from their apartments and they decided to do nothing. That was over exaggerated, but turned out to be like four or five people. Right. And the question was, it was this moral outcry of who are we as a city? Who are we as a place where we allow a bad thing to happen and nobody intervenes. And so now fast forward to this situation. First of all, Al Sharpton is a liar. Of course he is. He's made an entire career in the Tawana Brawley. I think that was the name of the situation where he just complete, he made up the entire, it was a total race hoax, right? It was a complete fabrication in line. And no provocation,

that man who died, the homeless individual, Jordan Neely, said, quote, I'm ready to go back to jail. Megan, I don't know about you, but if I was on a subway with my daughter

and some lunatic said, I'm ready to go back to jail, yeah, my fight or flight instincts you, but if I was on a subway with my daughter and some lunatic said, I'm ready to go back to jail. Yeah. My fight or flight instincts would all of a sudden start to get heightened. Any rational person would. When a guy, someone who says I'm ready to go back to jail, what are they saying? He's saying, I'm ready to commit another crime. And how is the media representing it? How's AOC that he's some sort of Michael Jackson impersonator. This guy had dozens of priors. And so he's on a subway saying, I'm ready to go back to jail. And Daniel Penny, who's a good Samaritan and a hero, restrains him. His intent was not to kill him. It's a tragedy anytime anybody dies. At the same time, we can simultaneously say, you know what? Daniel Penny should walk free

because this is what ends up happening. Aristotle said, justice is the messiest of all the virtues. Therefore, you must have clear lines and laws of what is justice and who enforces justice. Citizen enforced justice is not the ideal, Megan. You and I both agree. This is not how we want to live society. But when you allow anarcho-tyranny in the streets, which is a philosophical and political, let's say, mentality that is setting into our cities where we're willing to send prosecutorial power against Donald Trump, but the subways, you're on your own. And if you dare to stand up, then we're going to lock you in prison. Then you're going to get messy outcomes. It is unfortunate what happened. But Daniel Penny did what was necessary to protect the other passengers,

and they have even come to support him. And so it really is an indictment of where New York is and where it's headed, where we're not going to touch you if you're a schizophrenic, crazy person on the subway, where you're allowed to do whatever you want. You're allowed to hurl threats, obscenities, regardless of your priors. And possibly, by the way, Megan, you know this, there is kind of a growing concern that one of these people might throw you onto the actual subway track in the way of a subway train. That is not an unfounded concern. And Daniel Penney decides to be a courageous, good Samaritan and might face jail time for it. It is reprehensible, but yet another example of where urban America currently is. This is another story, kind of like the Harry and Meghan one, which is about more than just

this specific story. That's right. Where it represents so much that's wrong with the left today. You've got a city that won't take care of a homeless, deranged man like this Jordan Neely, who's been in and out of institutions, mental health institutions over and over and over, but refuses to actually institutionalize somebody against their will. They refuse to do it. They think that that's a violation of civil liberties. They don't give a shit about the civil liberties of the 67 year old woman whose orbital bone he broke or the seven year old kid who he tried to

kidnap. They're not concerned about their civil liberties. Um, so the city won't take care of its own by locking up the deranged. Um they sick him on the subway with insufficient law enforcement when they know that this is a massive issue down on the subways right now. Then you have a courageous former law enforcement. I mean, a former Marine down there who decides to do the right thing to protect his fellow citizens. Race has absolutely nothing to do with it. But the left swoops in, tries to make it all about race, doesn't acknowledge its own failures as a governing force in the city of New York, the left. The city was not like this under Bloomberg, under Giuliani, independents and Republicans, respectively. So refuses to acknowledge its ineptitude in running cities or what they've done to cops or demoralizing them

and so on, increasing crime in the subway and elsewhere in New York. And then, I mean, like the cherry on top of the sundae, Charlie, you got the Sharpton thing swooping in, denying fact, no threat, no provocation. That's exactly the opposite of what everyone who has testified to the papers thus far has said, including third party witnesses with no dog in the hunt. And then the final piece de resistance, and that's AOC coming to the funeral, which has nothing to do with her coming to the funeral and actually posing for photos with the public, because what better time for a photo op than at the, at the side of a dead man. That's, that's really where you want to put on the pearly whites and nail your selfie.

You know, get the right lighting. My left side's my best. Do you have the casket in the background? I want it to look perfect. I want everybody to know. That's what she did. That's correct. I think of that meme that is always circulated on Twitter.

You've probably seen it, Megan, where the one guy is like posing in front of the casket. Like that's AOC live at the funeral, like getting a selfie right in front of the casket. I mean, she doesn't care about him at all. AOC is Viva La Revolution. And racializing this situation, in her opinion, makes the revolution more likely. What is the revolution? The complete transformation and destruction of Western society. Western society, the country you and I grew up in, Megan, would prioritize merit over race. It would prioritize rule of law over tribalism. It would prioritize individual

sovereignty and rights over sectarianism and tribalism. She wants all that gone. And what she wants to replace it with, she hasn't really thought that deeply. Most of them haven't, by the way. I get that question all the time. Well, Charlie, it's all about deconstruction, tearing down. It's an arsenic, parasitic movement that is first about destroying because they're full of resentment. Resentment, I think, is one of the most undiagnosed mental issues that really pervades elite society and the left. But she couldn't care less about him. And it's so narcissistic. Can we just say that, that she isn't a flat out narcissist to go to somebody's funeral where you should say, you know what, I'm perfectly comfortable by saying,

you know what, his life is worthy of honoring. He didn't deserve to die, but it wasn't the intent. He shouldn't have been acting like a maniac. I think you could take pause. You could say, you know what? This is too bad. And that's fine. I think that's perfectly appropriate. At the same time, that's not why she's there. She's there to try to get clicks, to try to get media attention, because this is the key. AOC and Al Sharpton and all these people are trying so hard to create another George Floyd because the George Floyd situation made them temporarily more powerful and they miss it. They were allowed to have big protests, make themselves seem like they're Martin Luther King. These are narcissists that are constantly searching for another piece of outrage. And guess what? There's just a supply and demand problem

with racism in this country. We're actually way, we're far more decent than AOC would ever have to believe that most situations actually don't have a racial element that you have to create your own race hoaxes that you have to try to, you have to try to import race where it doesn't exist, where this was not about race. This was about what Viktor Frankl said. There are two different types of people. There are the decent and the indecent. And Jordan Neely was acting indecently. And Daniel Penny was acting decently. That's the divide here, not white and black or rich or poor or homeless and housed. No, no, no. It's decent

and indecent. And then something unfortunate happened because of it. AOC doesn't view the world through that lens. She views it through sectarian tribalism that will only make her more powerful and popular. Yes. What you said made me want to stand up and cheer. You put it so beautifully. You're exactly right. And two points. Number one, the irony of that woman sitting in her SUV or her black car protected by guards, not even like getting out of the way. So she's got her security. She's got armed guards protecting her, but she wants to take away our guns in the city of New York, as do her fellow Democrats. We're not supposed to be having them anywhere because she says so. They want to take away our law enforcement. They want to allow turnstile jumping down in the subway, which leads to additional crimes down there. They don't want

crime enforcement down there. Mayor Adams just started pushing back against that when the crime rate went up double digits. And yet she's going to be behind her security with guns in her car. Okay, we get it. We perfectly, but Daniel Neely, sorry, I keep screwing it up. It's Jordan Neely and Daniel Penny. Daniel Penny, he can't protect anybody. You're on your own. So that's one point. Number two to your point of like her selfie and her injecting herself because she wants clicks and you said the same about sharpton after the funeral look what he put out on his social media look at this clip oh my god it's him arriving in a black car. Michael Jackson theme song. It's him getting out and somebody opens the door for him. You've got to be kidding me. I mean, it's him at the funeral, glad handing, and it ends in a still of him. Charlie.

I'm just surprised he didn't use thriller. I mean, could you just make it more obvious or beat it? I mean, look, this is important. We actually live in a decent country. There are a lot of great people. I hear all the time from people, Charlie, the country's falling apart. It's collapsing. Boy, is that true when it comes to the dollar inflation, the border? Oh my goodness. But there's so many good people left in this country, Megan. And it makes me emotional. I want to fight harder. And to see an act of heroism get deemed an act of cruelty, it infuriates me and it should your entire audience. Because the American spirit is to step up and storm the beach and restrain the belligerent when other people might be cruel. That is an American value. I've said time and time again, you can judge a society based on what you do with strength.

Are you indifferent? Are you a spectator? Do you subsidize widespread criminality or do you use strength to protect the weak? A Western value is that you do not act as a spectator when you see injustice unfold around you. The American creed, the American ethos that is written in our documents, but more importantly, it's passed down around dinner tables all across the country, is that you have a moral obligation to do something when you see somebody that can't defend themselves be treated poorly. And not only is that being put in jeopardy, the opposite is. We are criminalizing that ethos in New York City currently. You're so right. I pray to God every night, of course, for my children, for my country, for those suffering. And one of the things I pray for my children is that he help make them strong and help make them able to protect the weak. It's not just make them strong. It's please make them strong enough to protect the weak. When they see somebody in danger or hurting, please give them the courage and the ability to step in. And that that's what Penny did.

That's what he did. And he's being criminalized for it. He's be calling being called a white supremacist by these guys who are looking for photo app ops and to increase their own brand recognition off the back of a dead man. It's absolutely disgusting. I want to talk to you next about, because what you were saying is like dovetails perfectly on what Senator Tim Scott said to us when he came on the show not long ago. And he's announcing today. I'd love to get your take on him and where we are in 2024. More with Charlie Kirk right after this. So young and so much wisdom. So it was last August, Charlie, in episode 370 that we had Senator Tim Scott join us

as he was promoting a book that he was clearly writing to soften the field for his presidential run, which now we expect will be announced today. Here's just a little bit of where his messaging was back then. The fact that we've had an African-American president, we've had an African-American vice president, we've had an African-American head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, we have an African-American who's the head of all the military today. We have had an African-American running American Express. Supreme Court justices. Supreme Court justices.

I mean, when you take a look at the progress made and you don't look at both sides of the ledger, how do you come to the conclusion that America is a racist country? We may struggle with the issue of race, but the truth is that I said it and Kamala Harris has said it, Joe Biden has said it as well, that America is not a racist country.

Now, here's what I'm going to challenge all leaders to do. Let's act like it. Let's not sell to people this division that is easy to conquer so that you win an elected office. If you have to win through anger and win through division, you might win, but the country loses. And ultimately, if the country loses, the world loses. I'm not willing to let America think that we're divided when we are the greatest force on earth for good. Nothing close, no second place. We are the city on the hill. We are the beacon in the midst of the storm. Tim Scott is a force for good as well. But is he the man for the job at this point in our country's history this time around? What do you make of it? Yeah, I'm a Trump guy. A hundred percent. I've endorsed Trump and he's a good friend and I'm sure we'll, we'll chat about that.

But let me talk about Tim Scott. I I'm so glad he's running. First of all, he's a first class guy. I, when I met him, he's like one of the sweetest, warmest, kindest. I'm like, you're way too kind to be a politician. That's what, that was my first, when I met him, Iest, kindest. I'm like, you're way too kind to be a politician. That was my first, when I met him, I said, Tim Scott's the type of guy that would stay extra hours to make sure the church bake sale is all cleaned up. He'd volunteer extra hours to park cars. He lives out his faith. He's a great, great guy. I'm glad he's running because we need more voices. That's why I love the fact that Vivek is running and Tim Scott to crusade against this woke ideology. For no other reason, for Tim Scott to go hard against the bitter lie from hell that

America is a racist country, to put the 1619 Project on trial, to put the Nicole Hannah Jones nonsense on trial, God bless Tim Scott for that. Look, I'll be honest. He doesn't have much of a shot in the Republican primary. I know the Republican base pretty well. It's going to be Trump, and if not Trump, maybe DeSantis. But even that is a very, very low percentage chance. The Republican base is just not going to be on board for Tim Scott at the time, in my personal opinion.

At the same time, I don't think it has to be one way or the other in the sense of, oh, I hate every candidate running. I have great respect for him. And for Tim Scott, for example, to get public praise from Elon Musk, to have Tim Scott's video about we're a nation of work, we're not a nation of victims, we're a nation of flourishing and not trying to lower expectations, that's awesome that the world's richest man and the owner of Twitter is favorably tweeting out about someone that talks about center-right values. And so I'm thrilled he's running for the presidency. I wish him very well. I also want to make sure he knows. Don't run against Trump because that is a chainsaw that I don't think anybody is going to want to go towards. At the same time,

the more people that can go on mainstream media and put this woke ideology on trial, God bless him and his efforts. I like the way you put that. There is a piece in Politico as of yesterday saying, look, the entry of Tim Scott, you got New Hampshire Governor Chris Sununu saying there's a 61% chance he's going to run for president and could announce soon. You got the North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum. Hello?

Who? I had to Google him. I don't think he's got a lot of name ID. So, yeah. Hello. I'm all about South Dakota anyway, whatever, to the North. No, just kidding.

It's fine. So Politico's takeaway was that what this tells you is that DeSantis tells you something about DeSantis because he was supposed to be the main non-Trump candidate. And they say DeSantis is a paper tiger. As more prospective candidates surface, it's becoming clearer what's at the heart of those plans, a growing belief within the party that DeSantis is a paper tiger. His Disney jihad, his Ukraine is a territorial dispute stumble have undermined his aura of competence among donors in the business community. He suddenly appears to be a candidate who has thrived in a protective cocoon, isolated from media scrutiny. I don't

know if that's true. Certainly not. I'm not sure that's true, but yeah. Okay. I see what they're trying to say. And he's now confronting the perception that he is a porcelain candidate, glazed and decorative, durable enough, but not really built to withstand the blunt impact of Trump's hammer or the full fury of a united democratic party. It's an interesting theory that the entrance of all these people tells us something about the other leading possibility after Trump. What do you think? Yeah, look, in politics, if you're not growing, you're dying, right? And if you're not advancing, you're decaying. And I'm a huge fan and friend of Governor DeSantis. And my advice to him publicly and privately would be first looking back, you should have announced 120 days ago, right? Your stock was high. You should have got into the race. I know you had a legislative

session to get stuff done. I know you had governing stuff. This has been way too slow of a roll up. And Trump's team, to their credit, they saw kind of a target floating and they just said, we are going to relentlessly pound Governor DeSantis and we're going to get our favorables up. And Trump's team deserves credit. That worked. Now, whether or not that will stay or not remains to be seen. But Governor DeSantis was within striking distance back in January based on all public reporting polls. And he just kind of decided to slow walk it, decided to kind of say, oh, I'll do something around May or June. And that strategy might end up being right. I'm skeptical. I think that if he would have entered the race in January,

February, he would be in a much better spot than he is right now. With this kind of criticism, though, I just kind of laugh. It sounds like a GOP consultant said that the one reason that DeSantis is attractive to the Republican base is jihad against Disney. No, we actually want to see people use political power to go after multibillion dollar corporations that produce content to groom our kids. I think that actually increases his appeal. It might jeopardize your standing ovation at the Chamber of Commerce, but it will certainly actually increase DeSantis' likelihood to challenge Trump in states like Ohio, South Carolina, and New Hampshire. The Ukraine thing, you know what?

Newsflash to the neoliberal neocons that largely run Washington, D.C., the vast majority of Republican primary voters care more about the United States southern border than what's happening in Ukraine and Russia. So I think the further that DeSantis, and I don't think he will, will lean into that, actually, I think he would benefit politically. The final thing I'll say, though, is that you're seeing some, not leaking, but you're seeing some early language workshopping from DeSantis and kind of this the longest roll up of a presidential candidate I have ever seen, a candidacy I've ever seen, Megan. I mean, like, come on, just get it over with, man. Can you run for the presidency? I mean, it's the book tour in this. And I say this as someone who's very pro Ron DeSantis and

what he's done in Florida, who I believe is America's greatest governor right now, is that the most effective line of attack against Trump will be the COVID and the Fauci stuff. As I travel the country, you know, we have a very pro-Trump audience on our podcast and our radio show. The thing that the audience agrees more than anything else, and even the great Rush Lumbaugh said about Trump, Rush said, President Trump's picking of personnel is puzzling. That was the most critical of Trump Russia ever was, is that Ron DeSantis saying, hey, why'd you put Fauci in there? Why'd you put Birx in there? Why'd you do Operation Warp Speed? Why'd you recommend this stuff? That is going to be a

line of attack that Trump is going to have to navigate. I think he'll be able to do that. But all these kind of third or fourth tier candidates like Sununu or Burgum or Yunkin, I think it's all just a sideshow. It's not going to resonate. Trump has 50 to 60 percent of the Republican base. I think that could only increase in certain states. He's been on message lately. The indictments are actually only more of a life force to his campaign. DeSantis still has a path, but it's ever decreasing. And if he would have announced a couple of months ago, I think he would be in a much better spot. Oh, and he could have scared some of these other people out. I mean, the main way for DeSantis to get the nomination is to have it be a head-to-head race,

DeSantis v. Trump. And with all these people throwing their hat in the ring, they don't divide the Trump vote. Those people are not, Burgum's not going to get any of the Trump voters. The only person left to take from is really DeSantis. Yeah, I mean, but in a weird way, Mar-a-Lago is actually celebrating that Tim Scott is running. Mar-a-Lago is celebrating that all the Vivek and all this, Nikki Haley, they said, go and dilute the not Trump vote. And let's just call it what it is. Running for the presidency in a social media era, it's basically become a cottage industry to go get either a Fox News contributorship, live kind of an elevated lifestyle based on donor funds and be treated really well

in Palo Alto and Beverly Hills and to kind of act like you're really important, like you get, you know, black cars and private jets. And it really isn't about communicating to voters, at least for most of these people, or they're able to talk about an issue that they care about. And whether that's a good thing or not, I'm not sure. I think it is a good thing that people that are probably not going to be president, like Tim Scott and Vivek, are able to get a nationwide platform and they're taken more seriously because they say I'm running

for the presidency, especially with really important ideas. But let's be serious. Who's actually going to win the nomination? Who's actually going to be in the driver's seat to govern the country? It's almost a certainly Trump thing, if not that, then DeSantis. These other candidates are just a unnecessary and largely distracting sideshow, absent some of the candidates that I think are talking about issues that can actually move the dial and the Overton window for moderates and independents. Now, stand by because DeSantis is under attack by the NAACP in a really unfair smear of what he's doing in Florida. We'll pick it up there right after this quick, quick break. Charlie Kirk stays with us for the full show.

So on the subject of presidential politics, Ron DeSantis is now under attack by the NAACP, which has issued a travel warning for Florida. This is like what you get with like, hey, Americans shouldn't go to Syria. You know, they're having a bad civil war. Now the NAACP is issuing these warnings. But for American states, in particular red ones run by possible future presidential candidates, the formal travel advisory says that reads that Florida is openly hostile toward African-Americans, people of color, and LGBTQ plus individuals. Before traveling to Florida, please understand the state of Florida devalues and marginalizes the contributions of and the challenges faced by African-Americans and other communities of color. They went on to say that this advisory is in direct response to DeSantis' quote,

aggressive attempts to erase black history, Charlie, and to restrict diversity, equity, and inclusion programs in Florida schools. So you think that's an honestly held belief, or is that a political tactic? Well, we know it's a political tactic, because I was curious, I went on their website, I said, okay, who's in charge of the NAACP? Is this guy Leon Russell? And where does he live, Megan? Tampa, Florida. Oh, really? So you're going to send out a trap. Leon Russell living in the state that he's telling people not to travel to. I mean, it's just, of course, they don't believe it. I mean, 99% of left-wing ideology is inconsistent with their behavior. And they're environmentalists unless it comes to their own emissions.

They hate borders and walls unless it's their gated community. They don't want school choice for your kids, but they're still going to send them to $50,000 to $60,000 a year prep schools, right? So that's the one thing that I always say about conservatives is that, yeah, there are some inconsistencies here and there, but largely, I'm a big Second Amendment guy. I own guns. I'm not going to stop you from owning them. I believe in borders and walls. I don't care if you're a negated community. And so, I mean, they don't believe this. Obviously, they don't. And if not, I mean, we should be calling for Leon Russell to move out of Tampa, Florida, man. It's so dangerous. It's the neo-segregated South. And by the way, while we're at it, we have Blexit at Turning Point USA, which is founded

by Candace Owens. Blexit is going to be sending out a travel advisory responding to this saying, you know, Blacks should be very careful going to Chicago, Baltimore, Philadelphia, considering the amount of gang crime that happens over the summer. That's a fact. You want to talk about cities that are dangerous for Blacks? Urban America in the summer is very, very dangerous. We're talking about in Chicago, anywhere between three to 400 gang-related Black-on-black crimes that occur every single summer. So I don't think they believe it for a second. The NAACP has not been very relevant for quite some time, largely because, it goes back to an earlier theme that I said, is there really isn't that much racism from them to protest, certainly not systemically. Of course, there

are races in this country. There's people that are cruel and evil and awful. But the biggest amount of racism in the country is against white people and Asian people. It's not against blacks. And it certainly is not in our laws or our customs, our traditions. No, we are a decent country where our laws thankfully got to a place that prioritized merit over race. But the NAACP trying to stay relevant issues this advisory. You know who this travel advisory is really for? It's not for black America. 99% of blacks would laugh when they see this. It's for white liberals. This is written for white liberals in Boca Raton and in the Upper East Side that hate Ron DeSantis so much that they want to try to get some sort of headlines against them because he decided that we shouldn't have the 1619 project in Florida schools.

Yeah, it's interesting what you say about the inner cities, Chicago, Baltimore and so on. If you're a black man who gets killed in the state of Florida, the left will make a huge deal out of it. The NAACP is sure to say something. But if you're a black man who gets killed in Chicago, they won't give two shits. They will not say a word. They will ignore it like it's absolutely no news. So yeah, there is cause for concern. On the subject of presidential politics, actually, let me just spend one second on DeSantis because I did look up like I hate to let the lie pass

without setting the record straight on DeSantis and what he's actually done in the Florida schools. When I read this and just remind myself, it's like, we have great schools now here that we're at in Connecticut and that's by design. You know, we left these woke New York City private schools for exactly this reason.

You know, critical race theory. I always say, I don't care what you call it, critical race, I don't give a shit what you call it. You can call it critical race theory, you can just call it,

you know, weird race essentialism, but it was happening to my kids and it's not happening in my current schools. But here's what he did in Florida. He banned, quote,

critical race theory, saying state, the educational topics have to be factual and objective. It prohibits the teaching of critical race theory, meaning, as they define it, the theory that racism is not merely the product of prejudice, but that it's embedded in American society and its legal systems in order to uphold the supremacy of whites. He banned 1619 teaching materials. That's good because all honest historians on the left and right have said that's made up. It's lies by Hannah, Nicole Jones, Nicole, Hannah Jones. He signed legislation against woke indoctrination, which prevents discriminatory instruction in the workplace and in public schools that defines individual freedoms

based on the fundamental truth that all individuals are equal before the law and have inalienable rights. And then finally, he blocked a preliminary version of a new AP course in the college, in the high schools that is based on African-American studies. Why? Because he doesn't like African-American studies? No, because it was based on Kimberly Crenshaw's teachings on Ta-Nehisi Coates, on all these far left black scholars who are trying to teach critical race theory. So you can teach American history all day long. You can teach about slavery, Jim Crow, all of it. And the NAACP is just being dishonest in its characterizations of what he's done. So that just shows you as well, in addition to the fact that Leon lives in Tampa, that

they're lying. You go through that list. It's like, oh, wait, you mean Ron DeSantis wants education the way it was like 15 years ago? And they act as if he's some sort of neo-Confederate, right? That's the country I grew up in. Okay. The country I grew up in, it was, we don't care about your race. We care about your character. You could be bigger than the circumstances around you, really basic stuff. And if you go into just the deceit, the treachery, the dishonesty of the 1619 project from any sort of objective historical analytical lens, it will make you stunned that this is allowed in any sort of academic environment. They do not use original source documents. It's a lot of hearsay. It has a massive preference on emotionalism. The best work has really been done by Hillsdale College, just tearing the 1619 Project apart. And of course, we want all aspects of American history to be taught accurately and fairly with proper context.

The problem with the 1619 Project and race essentialism is that they they prioritize slavery. Jim Crow South. And you know what they argument they make? They say it really hasn't changed very much. It just takes a different form. That is a lie. It's a lie from the pit of hell. We have made racial progress. We have changed our laws. And the reason they need to keep this going because they're more powerful, the more they're able to convince people that America is still a racist country, which we are not. Yeah. So on the subject of presidential politics, on a bigger scale, you've been saying some interesting things that I'd love to talk to you about. And you've been critical of the RNC as playing Frisbee when you say the Democrats are what? What are the Democrats doing versus the RNC? Oh boy, how much time you got.

So look, I wanna win and I hate losing. And I've been very critical of RNC leadership. I try to get Harmeet Dhillon in there. Look, I think Ronna's a very sweet person. I think she should go run for Congress. She's always been very good to me, but she's a loser. She has overseen losing election after losing election. And there's always an excuse, right?

Whether it be 2018, 2020, 2022, there's always an excuse. I think that in business, in anything, after six years of failure, you got to make a change. You have to say, you're done. We're going to find somebody new. Let's get some fresh thinking. The Democrats have, they've gone all in and they did this post COVID and they were very smart. They were very treacherous, but they were very strategic.

And parts of this little crumbs of this were articulated in Molly Ball's article, the Time magazine article, the secret campaign or the shadow campaign that saved the 2020 election, where they talk about this party infrastructure through nonprofit groups and activist groups and legal groups, lawfare, that not just manipulated, but they've really taken the sexiness out of politics, where it's not about candidate selection. It's not even always about debate or messaging or popularity. It's about the boring stuff of politics, the clipboard and tennis shoes type of work, the voter registration, the ballot chasing, and the machinery. And my evidence that I submit is that they are able to get somebody who should not be a U.S. senator, John Fetterman, to be a very qualified candidate and incredibly smart man. Mehmet Oz should be the U.S. senator from Pennsylvania. How is that possible? have built an incredibly well-funded and bulletproof type machine that registers their low prop voters and gets people to vote early and gets their mail-in ballots in. And we as Republicans have done none of that infrastructure. And I can say that as someone who lives in

Arizona, it's basically a major hope campaign. Well, I hope we're going to win. I hope we just have an ability to get our voters out. And the RNC does not have the sophistication, does not have the commitment to this kind of grassroots work. They're headquartered in Washington, D.C. They're consultant heavy. 40 to 50 percent of all the money they raise goes towards raising more money, actually. And so my argument is this. We have to downsize the RNC and we have to get back to a culture of winning. And the most important thing that can happen on the American right, in my personal opinion, is less emphasis on candidate selection and more emphasis on the boring stuff. And I don't I do not think the current RNC leadership has earned the trust of the American grassroots or donors to say, keep on giving us money.

It's time for us to start to create it ourselves. How how can we do an end around that RNC? How do people who want to see sane people elected and not these leftists who want to change the country do an end around? You get to the point where it's like, they're no good to us. We're going to have to forge on without them. Yeah, we're going to try to do part of it at Turning Point Action, but we're open and we have a political arm that we've really built. And we're trying to try to do part of it at Turning Point Action, but we're open and we have a political arm that we've really built and we're trying to build to do the ballot chasing in Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin. But part of it is trying to learn from the left. Can you just define what you mean by that? midterms. I told everyone to go vote on election day. I said, hey, just hold your ballot back and go vote on election day. Meanwhile, Democrats say, OK, well, we have 30 days to go collect ballots,

to go get our low propensity voters to turn in their ballots. And we are going to maximize our turnout over a 30 day window where Republicans and conservatives are going to just try to bum rush the polls on one day. I think that's a failed strategy on our part. So ballot chasing, specifically in Wisconsin, Georgia and Arizona, is changing our philosophy, admitting that we were engaging in an outdated model and realizing reluctantly, but realizing and recognizing we are in the era of mass mail-in voting. Therefore, we're going to try to increase the window where we get our low propensity voters to turn in their mail-in ballots or to vote in person and early to try to get that extra 5% or 10% that have not been showing up to the polls to try to compete with the Democrat turnout operation. So ballot chasing is the legal way that you're able to do this in Arizona, Wisconsin, and Georgia, which are the three states that the inevitable Republican nominee or Donald Trump, who I think will be the nominee, needs to win where you deploy hundreds. Smith, I see you have a ballot on your kitchen

table and you know she has a ballot because all that data is public. I'd like to recommend that you turn it in and you'll be met with resistance. Oh, I don't want to vote or all this. But you are quote unquote chasing the ballot until completion, until it has gone actually in the mailbox or into the secretary of state's office or the local recorder's office. More specifically, you're not allowed to touch the ballot. That is illegal in those states. We believe Democrats do engage in illegal activity. We're not going to do any of that. But this is the type of clipboard and tennis shoes, gritty type of hustle work that can get you 15, 20, 30, 40,000 low propensity voters that otherwise are not voting at all. And the way that it were,

for example, Carrie Lake, who I adore, should be governor of Arizona, did not engage in a robust early voting strategy. It was all about showing up on election day. And what we saw were machines failing, two-hour waiting lines, three-hour waiting lines. So part of what I'm trying to communicate, and I think the RNC is not capable of doing this at all, is we have to have an admission that the old way of doing elections is failing, where we focus nothing on candidates, just on candidates. We focus on messaging strategies. All that's fine, or TV ads. There's a place for that. I think what's more important is whether or not we have a durable machine that can compete with the George Soros, Arabella Advisors, multi-billion dollar Leviathan that is currently eking out victories in Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona.

If you were to ask the average Arizonan, do you want an open border? Do you want pornography taught to your kids in the local school district? Do you want hyperinflation? No, I think we live in a center right country, Megan. I really do. The reason that does not always manifest politically is we're not playing the game and the Democrats currently are. You're so right. And the money advantage on the Dem side, it's not the end all be all because, you know, I saw a headline just the other day saying Jeffrey Katzenberg, you know, very famous

movie producer in Hollywood said that I'll spend any amount, any amount to get Joe Biden reelected. Well, let me tell you something. Back in 2015, 16, I saw Jeffrey Katzenberg in person and he said the exact same thing to me back then about Hillary Clinton. Guess how that worked out? So it's not all about the money that is going to be spent on behalf of the candidate. It's about how it gets used. Is it used wisely or not? And I see your point. The GOP, the RNC is not using the money wisely. We need some whippersnapper in there who understands how to actually play the game. Yeah. And so what the Democrats have done is they decent. It's kind of hilarious when you think about it. Ironic is a better word. Where the Democrats that want government bureaucracy and one size fits all, they actually run their political infrastructure through a network of entrepreneurs, a political entrepreneurs that get three million, four million, five million dollars in micro communities in the black community in Atlanta or in the white working class community in Wisconsin.

Whereas we as Republicans, we actually run our elections incredibly monolithically, right? A couple of organizations, very centralized, where we should embrace a much more decentralized entrepreneurial model. Now, there is risk to that. The risk to that is that you can't control everything and that you need more accountability and you're going to have to try to see who succeeds. And guess what, Megan? The old guard might not get all the credit. I know that sounds to be super scary, right? Oh, you're trying to tell me that we can't take... Who cares about the credit? I want to win. I don't need the credit. I don't care if the RNC gets the credit. We need to defeat these people. And what has changed more than anything else is that we are

still engaging in a model where the vast majority of the margin voters, as we call them, used to vote in a ballot box. Now, the vast majority of the margin voters are filling out their ballot at the kitchen table. It's changed post-COVID and it's not going back. And of course, Trump was very discouraging of people using the mail-in ballot system too. And now they have it in their heads that that's not trustworthy. But I guarantee you of somebody, you know, most Republican voters saw Charlie Kirk showing up at their door saying, trust me, you should fill out the ballot now. They would. It's, they don't know you. They're worried who's at their door and can I trust this person? And, you know, I feel better about doing, but that's what leads to lost elections. Let me ask you this. I know you've been speculating about what's going to be, what are they going to do this person? And, you know, I feel better about doing it. But that's what leads to lost elections.

Let me ask you this. I know you've been speculating about what's going to be what are they going to do this time? What are the Democrats going to do? Is it going to be a new COVID variant? You know, they're going to try to use to scare people. Is it going to be more lockdowns? What another pandemic of some sort? What do you think? Like what you sort of look at these guys for a living?

What do you expect them to do this time around? We had George Floyd last time, right? What do you think it's going to be? It's a great question. So we had the Durham report, which just really created a lot of bitterness inside of me because a lot of it's stuff I've been talking about for years. And I was even censored on social media as being spreading misinformation because of what is now in the Durham report. Just wait a couple of years. The conspiracy theory will be proved right. It's kind of the joke we have around here. And we saw what Elon Musk did, who I think is a hero, and he declassified the Twitter documents. I was blacklisted. But also we saw that the FBI had regular standing meetings with Twitter. Mark Zuckerberg admitted on Joe Rogan's program that the FBI was going to worry about Russian

disinformation and that they clamped down on center-right content that got mislabeled as Russian disinformation. We saw that they had tabletop exercises at the Aspen Institute wargaming this whole thing out. We saw, of course, Tony Blinken come out with a fraudulent letter of 50 intel agency officials that said the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation. So going back in 2020, it seemed as if there was a plan. Now, did they know COVID was going to come or was it as I believe it was Jane Fonda said it was a gift from the heavens? I think it was Jane Fonda was one of those left wing activists. And so we yeah, we don't know exactly, but they certainly capitalized it and they used COVID and the lockdowns and the hysteria and the body count on CNN.

Remember that where they used to have the death count? I mean, it was just nonstop propaganda, what I call pressure release valve political tactics, where it's like, I have enough. I'm going to vote against the guy. Just make it stop. You're waterboarding all of society. And in some ways, it worked. And then, of course, they had Floyd Apalooza during 2020.

Now, all of that was put into jeopardy when the laptop stuff that could have swung the election. Every poll shows that even with all their nonsense and the Zuckerbucks and the mass mail-in ballots and the signature verifications, the laptop could have actually been a deciding factor that Tucker Carlson interviewing Tony Bobulinski, which got no coverage in the mainstream networks, that still could have actually given Donald Trump a second term. And so a lot of that was planned and plotted. And it started with them on a whiteboard kind of wargaming it, you know, point A, then point B. And so I'm saying on my program, and I think this needs to have, we need to have a robust discussion is they're going to try to do something again in this election. In 2016, they tried crossfire hurricane. Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, they had the famous text messages, we're never going to let this happen, smelly Walmart people. We're going to talk about this in Andy's office. We have a plan. Their plan was to try to frame Donald Trump as a Russian agent. They failed in that plan, but it shows that the intel agencies and the social media

companies and this network of dark money on the left is actively plotting and planning in undemocratic ways, right, their favorite word, to try to prevent somebody from becoming president. And if you think for a second that if Donald Trump's going to be the nominee and the intel agencies and the CIA and the FBI and the DHS and the Department of Justice and the tech companies absent Twitter are just going to sit idly by and let Donald Trump do the 2016 thing again, no way. So what do I think the active measures are? I think are just going to sit idly by and let Donald Trump do the 2016 thing again? No way. So what do I think the active measures are? I think it's going to be indictments, Megan. I think that their plan, and I'm just speculating, is they're going to try to weigh Donald Trump down in three or four different jurisdictions and three or four different

indictments simultaneously to try to give him the label of a felon, to make him seem so toxic, so radioactive, so kind of weighed down, such a heavy candidate that people are just going to say, fine, I guess I'll vote for Joe Biden. We also might see more suppression. There's going to be a lot of nonsense on the mass mail and balloting side. But the way I'm trying to get Republicans and conservatives to think is, oh, not just Durham, you know, revealed something bad in 16. OK, we read Molly Hemingway's book rigged in 2020. What are they going to do this time? Because we now have seen a pattern of multiple elections where the American Democrat regime is willing to use government and corporate power to try to interfere with our elections.

And I'm confident they're going to try to do it again. Wow. That's scary, but they do it every time. And so I can't say you're wrong. I mean, there's always a George Floyd type situation. We have situations like that every day. I mean, every week in America where somebody dies at the hands of police and you could make it into a big thing if you wanted to. They go very, very quiet until it's an election cycle. And then they pick one and they spin it up and they try to divide us by race and so on. So who knows what it'll be? But you're certainly right on the indictments. We've seen that already. Let me shift gears and talk. You mentioned Fox, Tucker. There was news on Tucker over the weekend via the Daily Caller, which is an outlet that he founded, reporting as follows, that we're learning more about who is behind at least some of the leaks in this case. And I will start with this. Sources say Viet Dinh, the general counsel of Fox News, relayed that the head of Fox

News PR, Irina Briganti, had been warned that she would be fired if she were caught leaking. So this is revealing that the woman at the head of the comm shop, Irina Briganti, was warned she was going to be fired if she was caught leaking. I can now add to that. She was specifically warned that the executives went to her, including Viet Dinh, is my understanding, after this article by the New York Times. On the eve of trial, discovery of Carlson texts set off crisis atop Fox. This is the New York Times article that I've been talking about for some time now. It hit two days after Tucker was fired. It said that there were highly offensive and crude remarks revealed in the Dominion filings that went beyond the inflammatory, quote, often racist comments of Tucker's primetime show and blah, blah, blah. And said it was these comments that led to his termination.

And then I believe it sounds like Fox suspects Irina Briganti of leaking this whole thing. And I think she made a critical mistake in this leak to the New York times. Certainly it was leaked by somebody at Fox from the way this piece reads. And that is, uh, way down at the bottom of the piece, it reveals that, and I'm quoting here in video obtained by the times, for instance, Mr. Carlson has shown off camera discussing his post-menopausal fans and whether they will approve of how he looks on the air in another video, he's overheard describing a woman he finds quote yummy. So whoever gave the times this leak about his inflammatory and highly offensive and crude remarks in the dominion filings, which were under seal, they were redacted. Nobody knew about them

except for Fox people and dominion executives. So whoever had access to those also had access to those Tucker videos that were leaked to Media Matters. And that is a very small circle of people. And what I can add to the Daily Caller's reporting is after this piece hit the Times, the executives went right to Irina Briganti and said, if you leak, you're fired. And they suspected that she was the one behind this. Okay. So that's one, the daily caller adding that there's another culprit, um, believed to have been involved in the leaking. And that is, uh, a woman who's on the Fox news board. This is per the daily Waller Viet Dan again, uh, reportedly called a close associate of Tucker's on May 3rd, asking to have a message relayed to him.

Dinh expressed regret at how the previous week had played out in the media, according to two sources, reassuring Carlson's camp that Fox News had not authorized the leaks that led to several negative headlines. He confessed, according to the sources, not only the Irina thing, but that the network's leaders suspected a member of the board of directors had been speaking to the press about tucker without authorization carlson's inner circle has since ruled out paul ryan a lot of people thought it might be him they now believe that it was ann diaz who talked to the press then they say by the way briganti is denying all of this saying that it's categorically false. But this woman, Ann Diaz, she's the founder of Aragon Global Management LP, an investment fund focused on global media, founding member of Viking Global Investors, which is a portfolio manager at Soros Fund Management. And she's a financial analyst at Goldman Sachs. So this person, she went to Georgetown, she went to Harvard. She's the ex-wife of the guy who founded Citadel.

Ken Griffin. Yeah, the suggestion is that this is a lefty on the Fox News board who has every interest in the world in hurting Tucker. And so we get a little closer to understanding who's behind the smear campaign, whether it's Irina, whether it's Ann Diaz. And it sounds, according to the Daily Caller and my own information, like both of them may have had a hand in this. It's Fox it's Fox and the problem for Fox is uh that's not okay that is as I've said before as a lawyer a breach of the covenant of good faith and fair

dealing it's a prior material breach of Tucker's contract and he should be freed up to do whatever the hell he wants right now and he should get now. And he should get his full payment. He should get his full money. That's right. And under this, absolutely right. Because they're dropping hip pieces on their own current employee. He's still employed by the company. This is their ratings and the 8 p.m. hour remain in a free fall. The latest last Thursday, the 8 p.m. hour lost to MSNBC. They continue getting absolutely no one to watch that hour, Charlie. So what do you make of all that? So a couple of thoughts. I think it's helpful to kind of go back.

Where did all of this start? And here's my theory. And I love your thoughts on this, Megan. I believe it all started. I remember seeing it live. I was in the White House watching the election returns, November of 2020. And as soon as Fox News called Arizona, now I'm from Arizona. And when Fox News called Arizona, my phone lit up in a way I've

never seen before. The anger, the fury. Remember, Megan, they were ahead of CNN. They were ahead of NBC. Fox just decided, oh, yeah, Arizona's called because of one ballot drop, one ballot drop. Now, there were 22 million people watching Fox News at the time. And the ferocity that Fox received after that, because they were the only network. It would be one thing if every other one was calling it and every other decision desk and Nate Silver. Fox, days ahead of every other network, calls Arizona for Joe Biden. Almost as an insult to your viewers, a massive middle finger. And people were going to CNN and CNN were saying, well, you know, Arizona is still really early and other networks have called it. It's like, what world are we living in? And then the days that

followed Fox realized they made a massive error and they had to compensate for that. Right. So as a way to compensate for that, they realized you might remember Newsmax's numbers were going up. Other alternative media was going up. And Fox was really worried. Yeah, no. And Fox was worried in November and December of 2020, they might've permanently messed up the network.

So then they go to Tucker, who they realized was the only one that was really rating and had a lot of brand trust. And they gave him everything. Today's show, more money, right? Tucker Carlson today,

podcast, more money, Tucker Carlson documentaries, you know, kind of studios built in his home, like the whole shebang. And so he signed a deal and they kind of went all in on Tucker. And Tucker really was the one that stopped the bleeding because Fox was in free fall post that Arizona call with Chris Steyer, Walt and the whole thing. And Tucker kept the network competitive and then grew. And then they finally got over that. Now, part of one of the reasons

why they were so kind of okay with airing some of the Dominion stuff is they were worried that they were going to lose viewers, but that's a little bit of a separate issue. But they went all in on Tucker. And I think Fox executives, they did not understand their audience at all. And they did not realize that the network was largely dependent on the brand trust that Tucker was delivering at 8 p.m. every night, that the other shows were largely succeeding because of him. And I'd put like second or third place, Laura Ingram and Greg Gutfeld and Jesse Waters, great people, terrific talent. But it really was built on Tucker. And so a corporate media model was largely built on a single personality. And you know it, Megan, and you've said it many times that the kind of Murdoch mantra is no one is bigger than the network, right? We could take out anybody, we can rebuild it around anyone. And that might've been true 10 years ago, 15 years ago,

but media has changed a lot. You now have podcasts, you have more video delivery, you have more competitors. And so with this ousting of Tucker, I think there might've been, again, time will tell, an arrogance like, oh, we'll recover. We've been through this before. And my personal opinion, that New York Times article, Megan, I think that it was leaked by Fox as a way to try to justify to the world why they got rid of them. And they couldn't understand why the population they were trying to serve said, are you kidding me? Right. Like I think in some ways, I think that New York Times article was them trying to be like, oh, now you can see it from our side. And we were like, are you serious? This is why you got rid of our guy. This is why you got rid of our 8 p.m. guy, because he said something

that that's not how white people fight. Who cares? Get over yourself. That's a private text message where he was even lamenting how he was feeling and was almost atoning for his sins in a very honest private text message. That's why you got rid of him. And I think it created this massive backpedaling from 1211 Avenue of the Americas where they're like, why are we still losing market share? Why are people not watching us again? It's because you have not understood your audience since November of 2020. You guys went all in on Tucker. That was a good move. And you think that the entire audience wants MSNBC light when in reality, the person that is paying the bills at Fox is more conservative. They want more honest takes. And finally, I'll say this. Tucker was an outlier on the network.

Jesse Waters also does this in Laura, but Tucker more forcefully. He critiques neoliberalism. He talks about issues that no one else talked about. Adverse events to the vaccine, critical critics of Ukraine, right? Talking about corporate power. He had segments on UFOs. You're not allowed to do that. And so I think it all culminated with that. And the leadership of Fox right now is confused. I think right now they are astounded. They say, who is our viewer? You guys have not dared to even get to know your audience the last couple of years. And I think they're going to continue to suffer because of it. It's amazing to me because if you look back they went for a week or so with the leak leak leaks on Tucker trying to smear him and the audience disappeared the audience was not persuaded

and then and the audience was angry at Fox and then they had this milk toast letter sent to Dominion lawyer saying hey you must be behind these leaks of the Tucker texts you better stop that Dominion's like please please, who are you kidding? And then they sent the similar letter to Media Matters, which laughed in their face. And the leaks continued for another week plus. And then guess what happened? Then Brian Friedman, Tucker's lawyer,

happens to be my own lawyer too, sent a very powerful nasty gram saying, we're going to sue your ass. We're definitely suing Irina Briganti. We're suing everybody who's been spearing him. And you better hold all of your records. This is a records preservation notice because we're going to get them all.

We're going to take Irina's deposition and the board's deposition. And we're going to find out exactly who was doing this to him. And guess what happened, Charlie? The leak stopped. They stopped entirely. There was one leftover video

that Media Matters aired since then. And besides that, bub kiss. Zero. They're stupid leakers. Well, because they really thought there was a belief. And this is my theory that that, again, leaking to the New York Times, you think you're going to win over Fox viewers? Like, really? I mean, first of all, that in itself is insane.

But that most of the people would see it and be like oh i get it now okay now i see why you got like as if they were going to win over the sympathy of the disaffected tucker viewer where they're going to win them back he said the opposite happened he's out yeah no it's absurd so the other interesting thing here that i mentioned just in passing is eric bowling is now beating CNN. So he's on at eight. He's on a Newsmax at eight. And it appears that a healthy portion of Tucker's viewers at 8 p.m. have moved over to Bolling at Newsmax, who is definitely an acceptable substitute, I think, to the Tucker fans. He's very talented. And he's beating Anderson Cooper. This is unheard of. It's worth spending a minute on just because it is an earthquake in television. If Newsmax takes a week or a month off of CNN in the 8 p.m. time slot, Charlie, we're in a whole new land now.

Which is great. I think it's exciting, by the way. I think it's exciting that corporate media, the monopoly they've had is finally being disrupted. I mean, this earthquake is being felt across the board. And Megan, I'm sure you've seen it in your podcast downloads. We're seeing it in our podcast downloads. I mean, they've gone up significantly and the viewing habits and the information consumption habits are changing in real time, which is for years, we were always like, well, the brand is everything. And do you work for Fox? You don't need that as much anymore. Now it's who are you? What do you have to say? The trusting of brands is at an all-time low and trusting of people is ascendant. And you kind of see Joe Rogan was the trailblazer for this, right? Especially for a younger demographic and a younger population of, I'm going to speak my mind, I'm going to have big

names, we're going to have long form interviews. And so to see it happening on television where Newsmax, which has limited distribution, I think they're only in 50 or 60 million homes, not only, but Fox is in, yeah, Fox is in 110 to 115 million homes, right, through every cable package, DirecTV, Spectrum, Cox, like the whole gamut, Comcast, NBCUniversal, where Newsmax, they have 50 or 60 million, which is significant. So they have half the potential distribution potential, and they're beating CNN. But CNN has the most distribution potential. They're everywhere, right? They're on YouTube TV. They're on every possible distribution vertical, and you have Eric Bolling beating them. That right there not only should send shockwaves to CNN, but also if you're Fox, that I've never seen the anger towards a network like it is right now. People are coming up to me, Charlie, I canceled Fox Nation, I'm done, I'm not going to watch them anymore. I think they've totally mistreated Tucker,

and they have. And they think they're untouchable. And continue to. Continue to. He's still not out from under the contract. They're still trying to enforce the non-compete and the non-disparagement. They don't care. They're still trying to stop him from reconnecting with his audience. It's not going to work. from some others on how Fox has gone left on the gender ideology subject. Yep, that's correct. And revealing as follows, quote, a source who still works at Fox News told the Daily Signal that after Carlson's show was canceled in April, producers for the new APM were told not to bash Dylan Mulvaney. The source says that directive came from high-level executives. And it ends by interviewing Matt Walsh of the Daily Wire, who says there is no daylight at all between Fox News and MSNBC when it comes to gender and that reporting. And he says But it is interesting. The whole piece is worth reading. It talks about how Fox requires you to say the pronouns of people as required. Now, there's some of that is due to New York City law, which is as far left on this stuff

as you can get. But there's nothing in New York City law that says you can't bash Dylan Mulvaney when he's making a mockery of womanhood. So if that actually happened, that's a Fox directive. And it does sort of evince why people are having trouble with the new Fox News channel. Yeah, I mean, there's, I guess, criticizing central, you know, criticizing Dylan Mulvaney is the central piety you can't do, I guess now, at any major media network. It's remarkable. He is the holy, right? Everything else is touchable. It's interesting. I still go on Fox and I have good friends. Laura's been great to me. And I'll be honest, without Fox, I don't know if I would have had the kind of career I've had. And obviously, they've changed. I'm thankful to them. But at the same time, I'm very critical of where they're going. I'll say this, Megan. I got an email asking me to go on a program a couple weeks ago, and the producer had his pronouns in his email signature. Really? Uh-huh. And I'm not going to say what show. Yeah, at Fox. And they're asking me to come on the show, and I sent it to my team. I said,

we are not going on the show. Let me be very clear. No, the answer is no. Yeah, it's like he, him, whatever. I said, look, at some point, you got to just say no, okay? I am not going to put up with this. And I don't know if it's mandated. I said, look, this, at some point you got to just say no. Okay. I am not going to put up with this. And I don't know if it's mandated. I don't know if it's selective, but here you are, you're trying to book Charlie Kirk. And you think that, you know, me seeing pronouns in the bio is going to make me say, you know what, I'm going to make time on a weekend that, you know, that I could be spending with my precious daughter because of your, you know, your pronoun signaling to me like,

no, you'll go find somebody else. Okay. So this is, that's a legit thing, Megan. And people forget last May, June,

you guys could find the exact tape. This got buried because they got embarrassed. Do you remember that six or seven minute infomercial they did on that trans kid? I don't know if you remember that about last year. It was incredible. I had all the tropes. Your child's going to kill themselves unless you affirm gender affirming care. It had all the buzzwords on the network.

This was viewed as kind of an infomercial like, okay, everybody, we're very proud. Let's watch this very well edited propaganda piece brought to you by the chemical castration company Pfizer, basically. And it was all about my kid's going to kill himself and all this. And it was pure Operation Mockingbird transgender propaganda on Fox. Now, they memory hold that because they got such a huge backlash for it. But that trans ideology is absolutely prevalent in 1211 Avenue of the Americas. All right, stand by because there's breaking news on that. Yet another biological boy takes the spot of a biological girl in the state championships. Now there are two of them in California and these girls, I feel so sorry for

them. They've had it. You can see their frustration. We'll show you the tape and talk about it as we continue with Charlie straight ahead. Don't go away. Before I get to what happened in California, Charlie, let me tell you, cause we're on the subject of pronouns, something absurd from the State Department. They had begun testing a new feature that would provide users with the option to include their preferred pronouns in their global address list profile. But during the test, the feature inadvertently went live and a large number of employees had randomly assigned pronouns to their profiles. So they were like all wrong and you know even for people who have no gender confusion they were being called a he when they were she and so on whatever it's a bug i guess the whole project's ridiculous but the washington free

beacon reports that um that somebody from inside the state Department said a lot of people here have been triggered. They've been triggered by this. And so on Friday, we get this from Kelly Fletcher, the State Department's chief information officer. The State Department is now offering, this is on our dime, free therapy to, quote, any employee who feels hurt or upset as a result of this unfortunate mistake. Those upset by the misgendering are encouraged to contact the State Department's Employee Consultation Service to, quote, speak to a professional counselor. Who are these weak people who need therapy from one person in a memo, some computer misgendering you.

They sound like college graduates. Yeah. I mean, I wrote the book, The College Scam. And one of the things I write in the book is answering the question that people say, Charlie, how did Goldman Sachs and Citibank and Coca-Cola and American Express be just come so fragile and so woke? I say, well, you get what you educate. And what happens on college campuses doesn't stay on college campuses. You'll see it in the halls of Congress, in corporate boardrooms, or in the State Department. I mean, so for a decade, we staff people from the State Department that have the exact same viewpoint of what I experienced when I go to these college campuses. We know it really well. Stanford, Brown, Yale, or even the state schools, Ohio State, University

of Virginia, they are taught that if you do not get exactly what you want from pronoun preference to language, the totalitarian control of others, then you're triggered and you deserve special rights and privileges. You see, part of being in a free society, which is something we should fight for, is that you do not get special needs, wants, or privileges just because you think you're important. It's basically creating this mass competition for victimhood narcissism of, well, I'm trans and I'm disabled and I'm this and I'm that, where in reality, in a free society, you say, okay, you might have an issue, you might have a problem, fight through it, figure it out. Or if you want to be called something, persuade me to tell you that. You don't have to force me.

You don't have to use cruelty. You don't have to use intimidation or bullying. And that's why I say the T in LGBT largely is tyranny, not trans, is that it's one thing to live and let live. Megan, that's my temperament. I think that's your temperament, right? I don't go out of my way trying to police the imaginations of others or trying to say, oh, you are this thing or you're not that thing. If somebody asks me, I'm going to tell them the truth. And that's the America that I want to live in. I want to live in a live and let live country. I think it's a better country that way. That's not at all what we're living through. It's mandatory celebration, mandatory participation. If you have a different belief point, we're going to crush you. We're going to cancel you. We're going to ostracize you.

And you look around, you say, I thought the whole thing was about living and let live. It was about having each other's viewpoints equally respected. That's a bunch of nonsense. They haven't believed that for quite some time. It is forced conformity around ever radical viewpoint on gender and sex. It's so infuriating. And when you see it actually practiced and the effects of it on a real life person, even more so that brings me to California. There is yet another biological boy, two of them actually, who are taking girl spots in the state championships in track and field out there right now. I take you to Dublin, California, where over the weekend in the 1600 meter race, a woman, a girl, an actual girl

named Adeline Johnson came in fourth. She's an actual girl. If she had not had a run against a trans girl, meaning a biological boy, she would have been in third place and she would have made it to the next round, which is the state championships. Unfortunately, they made her run against a biological boy who's a junior in high school. So that means 15 or 16 years old. So that is definitely in the midst of potentially past boy puberty, but probably in the midst of judging from the pictures I've seen of this person. And all sorts of biological advantages are kicking in. And so not surprisingly, that biological boy who goes by the name of Athena Ryan won. That person came in second

and stole the place of Adeline Johnson, who deserved to go to the state championships. You can see it here. Number two is the biological boy trans girl. Number four is the girl who will not be going to the state championship. And you can see she gave a thumbs down to somebody off camera. Not sure what that indicates. Could mean I didn't make it. Could mean I disapprove of number two, racing against a biological boy. We have no idea. She wasn't interviewed. And here they are standing next to each other. The one on the right, the taller one with the muscular arms, the biological boy, Athena has been running in the girls events for the past two seasons. Didn't seem bothered at all by the fact that he took a girl's spot, um, talked about how proud he was of himself, whatever.

Um, and then we get this, I think it was, um, uh, it was the outkick sports reported that he would have finished last. had he run in the male category. The slowest male time there was 446.54. This person running as a girl got a 455.91. I mean, not even close. And he's not the only one. There's another boy who ran as a girl who's also in the state championships. California law requires it. Although no one's apologetic for it, they're celebrating it out there. Of course they are. You're using the right word, Megan, stole. And this person's a cheat. And that is the language I've used that we need to use. So this is a question in front of us as a society. What do you do with someone who has

a mental problem? Do you reconfigure all of society to try to accommodate their problem? Or do you try to get them treatment and health, help and healing and say, we still have standards, we're not going to accommodate your personal imagination about your existence? And the reason, Megan, this ties into some stuff we talked earlier, right? What are the strong people going to do when the weak are exploited? And right now, we are answering that question that if the strong stand up, you go to jail like Daniel Penny. If the strong stand up, you're going to get ridiculed. You're going to get tormented. So most people know this is wrong. 99% of people in Dublin, California know this is wrong. They are

deathly afraid to do anything about it. They don't want to be called names. They don't want to be ostracized. They don't want to be called names. They don't want to be ostracized. They don't want to be labeled. So they would rather have a mass injustice happen where a young lady is disenfranchised by a narcissistic cheat rather than stand up for biological standards and say to this young man,

look, dude, you got to get some help. You're not allowed to cheat your way to self-importance. You're not allowed to cut corners. You're not competing against somebody your own size, literally. Competing against somebody with the same testosterone levels, bone density, muscle mass that has the same sort of hormone balances that you do. But this is one of the problems with believing that tolerance is an end in and of itself. It is not. You should not tolerate injustice. You should not tolerate evil. And sometimes you have to be intolerant of such behavior.

And I'm proudly intolerant of cheating. I will not tolerate the cutting of corners and the validating of injustice because somebody's feelings might get hurt. I don't care. I care about the fourth place finisher and her feelings. I do too. Yes. And by the way, Charlie, there's no requirement in California that they lower their testosterone

in order to compete against the girls. And that doesn't work anyway, let's be honest. But yes. No, it doesn't. But I mean, there's nothing. He can just be a full blown boy in every single way and crush these girls and their dreams and their scholarship chances. And no one says anything.

When the women went there to protest this outside of the event, they were removed. People were shouting, you're offensive, you're bigots. And they were kicked out. The protesters, the same people who were saying, this is wrong. We'll go back again. I'll go with you. We'll protest from our anchor desks, from our podcasts. The whole nation needs to stand up against this. This is absolutely immoral. Yes, it's immoral. And it is a question that we are failing. It is an open question of what will a society do to protect those that are taken advantage of that have more strength? Look, there are three types of people, right? There are infants, there are the protectors of infants, and there are predators.

Infants are incredibly important. We must protect their innocence, allow them to develop, and make sure that they're in the proper biological categories. There are always going to be predators. Predators are people that use their strength and their power to go after infants. There, from biblical times, you're going to have predators for whatever reason. It's just part of our natural existence. What is the question is what do the protectors of the infants do? Do the protectors of the infants sit idly by? Do they say, well, you're being transphobic? And Megan, the cultural parasite is that you're not allowed to offend somebody.

But that's such a silly rule because then you're offending the fourth place finisher. I'm offended. I'm offended. They're not allowed to offend somebody, but that's such a silly rule because then you're offending the fourth place finisher. I'm offended. I'm offended. They're not allowed to enforce me. If that's the way we're going to play it, you're not allowed to offend me by cheating in these girls' races. We can both play that game.

The vast majority of the American public are with us. These state laws are a travesty, a disgusting injustice. And the only way to undo them is to use our voices. Charlie Kirk, so glad that you are one of them out there right now. Such a powerful force in our culture. Thank you for coming on and thank you for all you do. Love the show.

It was an honor. Thanks so much. All the best. So great. Really enjoyed that discussion. Hope you did too. Tomorrow, two of our favorites are here. The EJs join us and there is much to discuss.

We'll speak again then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.