The Megyn Kelly Show - Defund The Police Consequences, with Larry Elder and Don and Sondra Samuels | Ep. 131

Episode Date: July 20, 2021

Megyn Kelly is joined by Larry Elder, radio host and candidate for California governor, and Don and Sondra Samuels, a Black Minneapolis couple fighting back against the "Defund The Police" movement in their city, to talk about Elder's run for office, Gov. Newsom's COVID response and economic policies, the state of race in America, The Samuels' lawsuit to "refund" the police, the need to find solutions, the demoralization of police departments in America, the need to meet in the middle, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShowFind out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. I'm in a hurry because you have got to hear our guests today. We just finished taping with them. My adrenaline is flowing. They were so good. We just did three amazing interviews. If you don't like this show, I'm not the show for you. Right. This is not the show for you, but you will love this show. It's amazing. votes September 14th. And Larry has just thrown his hat into the ring. But the secretary of state of California is giving him some guff on it and getting himself on the ballot. I think it'll happen. But so far, they've been giving him sort of the rope-a-dope. So we're going to talk to Larry about that first and see whether he's actually got a chance. What does he think?

What's the plan? What's he going to do out there? They have had Republican governors, even though it's a blue state. And then we're going to be joined by two people you're going to want to know, Don Samuels and Sandra Samuels. They have lived in the north side of Minneapolis for 24 years, and they are speaking out about the defund, the police, not just effort, but measures that have been taken there by their city council over the past year in the wake of George Floyd. I found the interview so infuriating, inspiring, illuminating, invigorating all my eyes. Just listen to them, okay? Please, please, please, please listen to what they have to say. Voices of reason on this whole problem on both sides.

They will open your eyes if you think police can commit no harm, and they will open your eyes if you think police need to be eliminated, defunded and replaced with some, you know, random citizenry body. They're great. OK, we're going to get to them in one second. First, this. Larry Elder, how are you? I'm well, Megan. How are you? You've been busy since we last spoke, Mr. Governor. I ran a small business for about 14 years. And somebody once said, running a business is an exercise in terror and disorder.

Whoever said that has never run a political campaign. This has just been a very, very wild ride. And I think I've been officially a politician for about 6.5 days now. Is it awful? It seems awful. It's different. You know, they've kept me off the ballot. I'm not on the ballot that was just released. It's not the certified ballot. That won't come out until Wednesday. And we're in court. And apparently what I failed to do was redact my social security number, which I was required to do. And the purpose behind that is to protect the candidate. So if somehow I screwed up or intentionally kept my social security number

on there, the only person who's harmed is me. And nobody that I've talked to, none of the election lawyers that I've hired or the ones I've spoken to just for consultation believe it is serious enough to keep me off the ballot. So we filed a writ in court last night. We're going to have hearing on Wednesday. And I would be shocked if I don't prevail and I ultimately get on the certified ballot come Wednesday. I'm going to run against this governor, and I'm going to take him down. And Megan, I believe the reason for this is because they're afraid of me. Somebody asked me whether or not it was because of race. I said, please, it's because of face, as in the face of Larry Elder. That's who they're scared of. And that's what I think has happened. This is only the second gubernatorial recall in

California history. The first one was in 2003 when Governor Gray Davis lost to Schwarzenegger. So it would be a huge deal if Gavin Newsom is actually recalled. And the way I understand it is you get on the ballot. That's the battle you're fighting right now, getting your name on the ballot. And it does seem like they're right now, getting your name on the ballot. And it does seem like they're doing a rope-a-dope with you, Larry, because the Secretary of the State had the opportunity to call any deficiencies, alleged deficiencies, to your attention. It didn't happen. Suddenly, you're not on there.

And yours is, I mean, really, you and Caitlyn Jenner are the only truly recognizable names on the list, although there's something like 60 potential candidates. I've heard between 20 and 60. I don't know what the final number is. But you're the one getting a lot of attention right now since Caitlyn's kind of petered out. So do you think it was intentional that they found an error that would keep your name off of the list, at least for now?

You know, I'm not a big conspiracy person, but it looks awfully, awfully fishy. You know, you're a lawyer. I'm a lawyer. I filed 300 pages. And this is the first time this law has ever really been used. It was designed, the requirement to turn in five years of tax returns was designed to make Donald Trump have to turn over his tax returns. This is before they were turned over or stolen, on the California ballot for 2020. It was litigated all the way up to the California Supreme Court, Megan, and seven zip, it was ruled unconstitutional. But they did let it stand as to gubernatorial elections. It isn't even clear whether it applies to recall elections like this one. But the bottom line is, to use a fancy word, whatever errors I had on my applications is de minimis.

It doesn't really mean anything, and it ought not keep me off the ballot. This petition had 2.2 signatures to recall this man, and many of them were Democrats and independents, and they were cheesed off by a number of things, most notably the way he slammed down this economy for the coronavirus, while he had his own kids enjoying in-school private education while he exempted his own business and destroyed the lives of so many businesses here in California. Only one half of all the jobs have come back, as opposed to two thirds in the average state outside of California.

And then we have the rising crime and the rising homelessness and the outrageous cost of living. And this governor either is too incompetent or too unconcerned to do anything about it. So for all those reasons, I'm getting into this race. Now, is it true that, I want to get back into the legal challenge, actually, for one second. Do you think that by Wednesday, you'll have a ruling saying they have to put your name on the ballot? I do. There'll be a ruling by Wednesday. And if we lose, and we're not going to, it'll be appealed. And if it goes up to're not going to, it'll be appealed.

And if it goes up to the same seven Supreme Court justices who ruled unanimously that this law did not apply to Donald Trump, I don't believe that they're going to rule against me. This is just absolutely insane. And furthermore, there are at least two other rival candidates, rival Republicans, who didn't even turn in their 2020 tax returns. Now, the IRS has given people an extension because of COVID. And I'm not saying they didn't comply. And I'm not saying they should be kicked off the ballot. But can you imagine what they would have done to me had I not included my 2020 tax returns, which in fact I did? Right, exactly. Well, it does make you wonder. And why didn't they take the opportunity to raise this with you prior to when they released the list? But we're still in time at this point because the vote is not until what, September 14th? That's right. And there's a provision that allows the Secretary

of State to correct any redactions or things that should have been redacted that weren't redacted. So she could have done something had she wanted to. And by the way, this new law doesn't even apply to Governor Gavin Newsom. He doesn't have the turnover five years of his tax return. So there's also a protection argument that we also made. So there's a bunch of arguments that have been made, any one of which, in my opinion, is powerful enough to prevail on its own, let alone about a half a dozen major arguments that we've made. And we're going to post the brief online sometime before the end of the day. Okay. So assuming that you succeed in this battle to get your name on the actual ballot,

then the vote comes along in September. And as it, as I understand it, they had, there are two questions on the recall ballot. One is, do you want to recall Gavin Newsom? And only if they get a majority in response to that, do they move on to question number two, which is who would you like to replace him with? And that's where you hope your name will be. Caitlyn Jenner's name will be former mayor of San Diego's name will be, former mayor of San Diego's name will be, some businessmen and so on, and on down goes the list. Let me just ask you about Caitlyn. Do you think she still has a shot? She's just announced she's going off to Australia to film Big Brother VIP. And she says, look, I'm just honoring a prior work commitment, but I'm still totally

into this race. Well, Megan, with all due respect, I'm going to duck your question because when I get that question, that means that we're turning our cannon fire on each other. It's a circular firing squad. As you pointed out, the first question is whether or not this man is going to be recalled. And that requires 50% plus one vote. After that, the next question is, whom do you want to replace him? And whoever gets the greatest number will then replace him. But until and unless 50 percent plus one voter votes to recall Gavin Newsom, it doesn't matter how I feel about the rest of the candidates. So I want us all and I urge all the Republicans to keep your eye on the prize. The prize is Gavin Newsom. Gavin Newsom has got to go. This guy has lied about how many fallen trees he's cleared because we have our fifth season which is called fire season we have an infrastructure for water and for power that is for a state half the size because of the

environmental rules and regulations that the lawmakers in Sacramento have been foisted down the throats of Californians for decades, which is why the cost of living is so high. My father came here Megan in 1945 you know my story. He cleaned toilets for two full-time jobs, managed to save enough money to buy a house in South Central, which is still in our family. I just checked with Zillow the other night. It is worth $600,000. No eighth grade dropout could have a stay-at-home wife. My mother raised three boys until the latter of us was in middle school on a salary of two jobs, let alone three jobs, because the cost of living is so ridiculous. The average price of a home in California is 150%

more than the average price of a home outside of California. And one of the people who I often consult on these kinds of matters is a brilliant economist named Leo Hainian at UCLA. He says the average price of a home in California is 50% more than otherwise would be, but for these environmental regulations that have developers treated like felons, while this governor has overseen the release of 20,000 real felons into our streets because of the early release COVID program. This guy has got to go. So if he doesn't go, it doesn't matter what happens with the rest of us Republicans. Okay, now the odds are stacked against. How about that answer, Megan? I love it. And I appreciate somebody dodging my question by explicitly saying I'm dodging you. That's what I love about you, Larry. You'll give

it to me straight. I've only been a politician for 6.5 days. I haven't figured out yet how to be inauthentic and phony. I'm sure that's going to come. No, I don't believe it. Never with you. Okay. So, but your problem in California, your biggest problem is that Democrats outnumber Republicans by about two to one and that the governor's approval rating, it was 64%. Let me just finish that. It was 64% back in spring of 2020. Then it fell down to 52%. Now amongst likely voters, the latest I read was it's at 54%. And some 49% said they don't favor a recall. So you know, it's right in there. It really it's tight enough, it could go either way. But just looking at the sheer numbers, they say, you're an underdog, and he's overwhelmingly favored to keep his job.

Are you telling me that Megyn Kelly believes these polls? Honestly, the day before Donald Trump got elected, what did they say? Hillary had an 85% chance of winning. I don't believe them. The intensity is on our side. By the way, I've conducted interview after interview after interview up and down the state. And I've not seen Governor Gavin Newsom conduct any interviews because how are you going to defend the rising crime? How are you going to defend the outrageous homelessness? How are you going to defend the cost of living? how are you going to defend the rising crime? How are you going to defend the outrageous homelessness? How are you going to defend the cost of living? How are you going to defend the fact that he is totally beholden by the teachers union? The larger contributor to this campaign, teachers wanted the schools shut down, even though the CDC said under

certain precautions they could be reopened. Seventy-five percent of Black kids cannot read at state levels of proficiency in California. My former high school, Crenshaw High School, was the high school that was the center of that movie, Boys in the Hood. I just checked yesterday, 2% of the students at my former high school are math proficient. Now, who the hell sends their kid to a school where only 2% of the kids are math proficient? And by the way, it is a school that is controlled by the gang called the Crips. Who sends their kid to a school like that if the parent has an option out? The majority of black and brown parents, the ones who pull the lever for the Democrats, support school choice. Who's not giving them school choice? The very

Democrats they pull the lever for. So a whole bunch of people are rethinking their attitude and their allegiance to the Democratic Party. And I believe they're going to take, they're going to rethink a whole lot of things come September 14th with me on the ballot. You can it's a it's a private ballot and you can pull the lever for Larry Elder and not tell your independent or Democrat friends that you've done so. That's a good that's a good way of getting to the Californians. No one has to know. It'll be just between us when I get to the gubernatorial mansion. But it'll be our secret. It'll be our secret. It'll be our secret. The thing you have going for you, according to the local pollsters and sort of pundits, is there is apparently is Democratic apathy when it comes to this recall. Like they're like, ah, he's got it. I'm not really paying attention to this.

Whereas on the GOP side, according to the locals who follow California politics, they say there's a tremendous enthusiasm for this again, because it's only the second gubernatorial recall effort in history there. So the Republicans are psyched up and, but, but the Republican field is pretty fractured. So, you know, there could be a split vote situation that undermines you or, you know, I don't, I don't analyze it that way. I don't analyze it that way, Megan, more than Mary, bring, bring in the candidates that you just now mentioned. Everybody has a certain base, a certain number of followers. Uh, the, The idea is to generate interest in this election. What the Democrats have smartly done, however, is not enter a prominent Democrat in the election because they don't want him or her to take away votes from Gavin Newsom. Until and unless we get 50% plus one, it doesn't matter what the other Republicans do. And I'm urging people to go to electelder.com and throw a little something in the tip jar. By

the way, Gavin Newsom has no finance limitations. He can raise as much money as he wants and spend as much money as he wants. We have limitations. And by the way, when it was pretty clear I was going to announce, all of a sudden one of the major unions contributed five million dollars to his campaign. I haven't raised that money, but I'm on track to raise a great deal of money. But this guy has unlimited powers, unlimited ability to raise and spend money. We do not. What do you how does COVID play into this? now about what's happening in L.A. County, where they've reimposed mandatory masks indoors, even for people who are fully vaccinated, which goes against CDC guidance, even which

says you don't need to wear a mask if you're fully vaccinated. But they're saying that the numbers in California are bad. I'm just looking at the latest hospitalizations are up 42 percent in California. Cases are up 42% in California. Cases are up 198% in California. Deaths are up 22% in California. And so, you know, his explanation and the explanation of the locals in LA is desperate times. And so we've got to sort of go back to these what felt like draconian measures in order to save lives. You say you're going to undo it immediately.

What do you say to those people who say people will die if you do? No one is denying that the coronavirus is serious. I've been vaccinated. My girlfriend's been vaccinated. Everybody I know has been vaccinated. It is a very serious thing. But when you put it in context and look at it's only about 10% what it was at its peak. Furthermore, you have the LA County Sheriff Alex Villanueva saying this is anti-science and I'm not going to use my manpower to enforce this. And again, there are story after story after story about what Gavin Newsom did anti-science by shutting down the schools and by shutting down businesses. One of my campaign members has a brother who used to be a football coach in Oakland, happens to be white. Virtually all of his players were black. Many of them did not have fathers and he was was their father figure, and the coach and the regimen gave them

structure. He begged the schools to remain open. He begged Gavin Newsom to keep practice open. Come on, we can do it outdoors. We can do it with social distancing. This is not a violation of CDC mandates. He still shut down practice. Two of these young men got into trouble with the law. One of them committed a crime so serious he's going to be in jail for years. This would not have happened had Gavin Newsom not shut down the schools. This coach got so ticked off, he went to Tennessee, where he now lives, and where he's now being the kind of father figure for other people outside of California. I have a makeup artist, single mom. Her son is 17 years old, one of the top 25 wrestlers in the state of California for his weight class.

And again, the coach begged the school to remain open. The kid was coaching. I was being coached six days a week. That structure was gone. He and mom were in the house month after month after month after month. He becomes sullen and morose and becomes suicidal. He had enough integrity and had a good enough relationship with his mom that he went up to her and said, Mom, I feel suicidal. He's now in therapy. You can swinging a dead cat and get story after story after story like that because of what Gavin Newsom did. This guy has got to go. And one more time, I'm urging people to go to electelder.com and throw something in the tip jar and let's get

him out of here. Tip jar. How about the LA Times? They dropped a perfectly timed hit piece on you. I'm sure you weren't surprised to read it. This is, if I didn't know you, Larry, God, I would think you were a terrible man. This is the LA times view of Larry Elder. It's absurd and it's just mean. Uh, okay. This is them. There was a black led boycott against Larry Elder in the 1990s because of his racial views. He says black people are more racist than whites. He says he's, he's engaged in white grievance politics. That's his bread and butter. Uh, he has a delusion of rampant reverse racism taking place in this country, uh, saying that your campaign builds on the fantasy that it's not racist to deny the threat of white supremacy, uh, goes on. You've repeatedly twisted crime stats to portray black people as more violent than whites, a theme for

white supremacists. And then there's he blames black community struggles on an alleged lack of self-determination. That's a David Duke talking point. Well, I don't think they're for you. I don't think you're getting the endorsement. I don't think she's going to throw something in the tip jar. Let's just do this. Pick up your magic wand and wave it over America and remove every smidgen of white racism from the hearts of white people. Do we still have 70 percent of black kids entering the world without a father married to the mother?

Do we still have a 50 percent dropout rate in urban high schools? Are urban black boys still 25 percent of them with criminal records, either in jail, on parole or on probation? Is a black child eight times more likely to be a victim of a homicide compared to a white child? If all of those things are true, what are we talking about here? Why am I a bad guy? Why am I an Uncle Tom? Why am I a sellout? How does that make me defending white people? These are situations that the left is ignoring. The fact that the welfare state has incentivized women to marry the government has allowed men to abandon

their financial and moral responsibilities. So we've gone from 25% of black kids entering the world without a father married to the mother in 1965 to 70% today. Are you telling me America is more racist today than it was in 1965? Let's talk about what's really going on here. And they don't want to do that.

What, who would you say, you know, for Californians who don't know you and they're wondering what kind of a politician you'd be, what kind of a leader would you be? Who would you be like? Pick a politician and say, if you like this person, you'll like me. I've never thought about that. I think I'm a unique person. As I said, I don't believe it's race, meaning the reason that I'm not on the ballot. I believe it's this particular face. I believe I can connect to people in a way that a

lot of Republicans can't, either because they don't go to the hood, they're not from the hood like I was, they didn't come out of public schools, they don't realize how bad they are. But all I know is that I was raised by great parents. My father came to California, as I mentioned, in 1945 from the Jim Crow South. And my father, if anybody had a reason to be angry at the world, angry at America, and calling America racist, it's my dad, who didn't know his biological father, kicked out of the House when he was 13, joined the Marines, came back to Tennessee to get him a job as a short-order cook. And he was told, quote, we don't hire niggers, end of quote. He comes to California, walks around to get him a job as a short-order cook, and he was told, we don't hire niggers, end of quote. He comes to California, walks around to get him a job as a short order cook. And he was told, we don't hire anybody without references. My dad said, I need references to make ham and eggs. So he starts a small cafe after he saves his nickels

and dimes from being a janitor. And my father always told my brothers and me, hard work wins. You get out of life what you put into it, Larry. You cannot control the outcome, but you are 100% in control of the effort. And before you moan about what somebody else did to you, go to the nearest mirror, look at it, and say, how could I have changed the outcome? That's the philosophy my father had. And years ago, Megan, I was interviewed by 60 Minutes. My father is a man of few words. So 60 Minutes comes to South Central and sets up all the cameras and the lights.

You know how that works. They're there for 45 minutes, an hour. And we're only safe for the correspondent sits my dad down and says, you know, your son, Larry, says, if you work hard, keep your shoulder to the grindstone. You'll be just fine. Do you believe that? And my dad said, work for me, work for me. And we only said, OK, that's a wrap. And that's the only thing that my dad that made it into the program. That's all he said, because that's simple. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's that simple stay focused My goodness Barack Obama got elected in 2008 had a higher percentage of the white vote than John Kerry. What are we talking about? 2007 Gallup did a poll Obama's running for the nomination against Hillary and

Mitt Romney running for the nomination against John McCain and Gallup, what percentage of Americans would not vote for a black president? 5%. What percentage of Americans would not vote for a female? 11%. What percentage of Americans would not vote for a Mormon? 24%. What percentage of Americans would not vote for a man 72 years old when he became president, referring to John McCain? 42%. Obama had a lower hurdle than these three white politicians. So can we knock it off? Can we just get on with it? Talk about schools, talk about crime, talk about accountability, making sure that you are good enough to be able to compete in this economy and get a good job. Isn't that what we're talking about here? The left-wing think tank, the Brookings Institution, Megan,

said there are three things you need to do to escape poverty. Number one, finish high school, presumably one, good enough so that you can read, write, and compute at grade level. Number two, don't have a kid before you get married. Number three, get a job, keep that job, don't quit that job until you get another job. They didn't say that only applies to white people. That applies to people. Knock it off. The left always wants to bring up race because they know that if they can get 13% of black people all upset about social justice, they'll pull that lever for the Democratic Party, ignoring that this is the same party that denies them choice in school with urban parents, according to the polls, want desperately. You know, the other thing that the LA Times came after you on, and we talked about this last time you were on, you're proud of the fact

they're shocked and horrified by the fact that you've mentored a lot of people in the conservative movement, including Stephen Miller, who is completely demonized while working for Trump and Candace Owens, who is very open about the fact that you're her mentor and who we love. But, you know, she's another person who they say is a white supremacist. And the question is, I know all this is BS, but I do wonder how will the California, California is blue. You know, it's like my state, New York. How are the voters there going to think about you mentoring folks like Candace and Stephen and, you know, you having these very heterodox views when it comes to things like Black Lives Matter and welfare, which we're getting back to at the federal level. Right. Like, do you think they're going to hold that against you? Well, crime doesn't have a color. A crime is up in the Bay Area. It's up in L.A. It's up in San Diego. And the primary victims of this crime are black and brown people that the people on the left can't claim they care

about. Homelessness, which is a hygienic problem, it diminishes property values, causes insurance premiums to go up. It causes people to steal. That doesn't have a color. And again, I just saw an article about the LAUSD, the Los Angeles Unified School District. Two-thirds of Black parents do not want to send their kids back. And the district put out a statement, and it was something like this, and this is almost a verbatim quote. The district needs to develop an inclusive and strategic approach to supporting the achievement of Black students, close quote. What the hell have you guys been doing for the last several decades? You need to develop. When are you going to start? That doesn't have a color. And I'm going to be their champion. I'm going to be the champion of people who want school choice. 80% of the students at public schools in California

are black and brown. 300,000 public school teachers, and I'm told that between 5% and 7% of them are incompetent, Megan. That means 15,000 teachers are unleashed on the school systems every single year, miseducating these kids. Let's make an analogy. There are 20,000 LAPD officers. Imagine if 5% of them were incompetent. Say what you want about the trial of Derek Chauvin. There were about 15 complaints against him. In a normal environment, if you have 15 complaints against you, you get fired. If 5% of the LAPD were bad, that's 1,000 cops unleashed on the streets of LA. We wouldn't put up with it. Why are we putting up with 15,000 incompetent teachers unleashed in the classrooms of black and brown students every single day? I am their champion. The Democrats do not give a damn. They've got their own kids

in private school. I mentioned Gavin Newsom has his own kids in person, private education, while he was shutting down the schools for everybody else. This is something that is taking off everybody, independents and Democrats, no matter the race. So I don't believe that schools have a color. I don't believe crime has a color. I don't believe homelessness has a color. I don't believe the cost of living has a color. And I can make the case in a way far more persuasive than I think anybody else can. I've been on radio in California for almost 30 years, Megan, all the major markets, San Diego down up to Sacramento. People know me, they know who I am, and they know that I've got some practical things that I'm going to bring to the table on how to solve some of these problems. And you're real, you're real in your database. That's what's so

refreshing about you is you don't actually have a politician's filter. And that way you're like Trump. You just sort of say it the way you see it. And you always have, you don't have this veneer the way somebody like a Gavin Newsom does, who seems like he's tested every talking point, not to mention his hair before he goes out there on camera. I do think there's a chance that's really going to resonate even with people who might, you know, be ideological, ideologically suspicious of you. But I, but then I wonder, you know, in a, in a, in a state that's already controlled by the teachers unions, that really hasn't done so well on school choice. How do you convince them, right? How do you actually change things? And then, you know, I just look at sort of the disdain for Gavin Newsom by Republicans, right? The French laundry

do as I say, not as I do French laundry, you stay home, but I'm going to go out to eat. You send your kids to public school, but I'm going to send mine to private school. And I questioned the other side, is there enough disdain for the guy at this point that people are going to say, you know what, like they did with Trump, let's just take a shot. Let's see what happens. Right. And what Trump said, of course, is what do you have to lose? I was talking to a Bay Area, probably a Sacramento black newspaper. And as they were setting up, I can tell that they weren't feeling me. And during the interview, aren't you tired? Aren't you tired of the teachers union controlling the schools to the point where

75% of black kids cannot read a state level's proficiency. Aren't you tired of these white liberals who belong to the Sierra Club and to Ducks Unlimited filing lawsuits that stop the construction of homes so that the price of housing has gotten so high, the percentage of Blacks living in San Francisco and in LA has gone down. And the primary reason is the cost of living. I said, do you know anybody Black who belongs to Ducks Unlimited? And they started cracking up. I said, aren't you tired of this? Aren't you tired of being used? And I could tell I opened their eyes. I'm not saying they became Reagan Republicans overnight, but I think they're going to go

in there and quietly pull that lever for Larry Elder and not tell their friends. Exactly. The other example of that kind of hypocrisy that we saw so much during the COVID shutdowns comes with respect to Black Lives Matter. And Cori Bush, representative of Missouri, comes out. She's a big defund the police advocate. She thinks the police are terrible. Now it comes out in the news. She has spent $70,000 on private security for herself. And she had a private guard, private security over the past few months, $70,000. The average person in California, not her state, but still, cannot do that. And yet they are beholden to these politicians who

want to take this sort of moral ground of the police are terrible, let's defund. And then they've got almost $100,000 to spend on their own security, while the people in South Central are going to have to fend for themselves. Right. And St. Louis, where Cori Bush is from, we often pick on Chicago as the murder capital of the world because they have the largest number of murders in absolute numbers. But in terms of per capita homicides, St. Louis is three times more deadly than Chicago. What is she doing? And look at the school system in St. Louis. What is she doing? Running around, talking about defund the police. What are these people doing? Who's on your side? I am. And that's why I'm again, I'm urging people to go to elect elder.com and let's stop some of this nonsense.

Larry cannot wait to see what happens now. Wait, is there a chance that they reject you on Wednesday? And if they reject you on Wednesday, you can file an appeal. So it's not over. It's, is it not over until the ballot actually, you know, the vote is actually out on September 14th. Cause like, how long do you have to resolve this issue of getting your name? It's not over until if I get rejected on Wednesday and I'm not, it then goes up to the Supreme court on an expedited basis. So we should know within a few days, whether or not I'm going to be on the ballot and I am going to be on the ballot.

No question about it. I think you are too. Yeah. I don't believe that Gavin Newsom has the cashews to debate me. He's not even been interviewed anywhere. The cashews. I've been interviewed everywhere. I've not even seen this man because he can't defend his record. I've never heard quite that term used, but I can't

I'm picking up what you're putting down. It's a gender and ethnic neutral term, Megan. I got no issue with that whatsoever. No, he doesn't have him to debate you and he won't because he's the favorite. So I understand politically it's a smart move. He doesn't want to acknowledge that you exist. This is like not happening as far as he's concerned. Right. He's the favorite. And also the other reason is he won't win. William F. Buckley had a show on PBS called Firing Line for 33 years. And he was asked, why is it despite the numerous invitations you've made to then Attorney General Robert Kennedy, he's never come on your show? And Buckley said, why does the baloney avoid the grinder? This guy doesn't want me. And he's smart to avoid me. I'd avoid me if I were him. He can't defend his record.

Yes, I'd avoid you if I were him too. But I would buy money to that. I mean, I would pay money to see that debate by any amount. We could have a debate, solve the budget by selling tickets. That's true. If you put this on pay-per-view and said you'd split the proceeds, you'd both benefit mightily. You should propose that. Right. I'll propose it. I don't think he's going to accept, but I'll propose it. Yeah, I think you're right. He's got good strategic reasons. So we will continue to follow it. Larry Elder, electelder.com for a tip if you are so interested. Larry, we'll be watching and cheering you on. All the best.

Megan, thank you so much. God bless. Okay, so it'll be fun to continue watching what happens with Larry. I predict he gets on the ballot. And then we'll see. Then we'll wait till September to see whether, can you imagine? Governor Elder. It would be such a great story, right? Given his dad's background and the whole bit. I don't know. I think Caitlyn Jenner, I think she's kind of added a bit, frankly, big brother, big brother VIP. That's not where she is at heart. She's still a Kardashian. But we'll see. It's, you know, it's uphill battle, very blue state. So we'll see. Continue following it. In any event, let me introduce you to two amazing people, Don Samuels and Sandra Samuels, who are taking Minneapolis by storm and they are not

taking what's happening to their city when it comes to the increase in crime, in shootings and homicides, including of little children, including in the past couple of weeks and this week lying down. They're fighting back and they've got a roadmap for how you can too. Don and Sandra Samuels now. Don and Sandra, thank you so much for being here. Oh, thank you for having us, Megan. Great to be here, Megan. In reading the Daily Mail account of what you did

and what you've been through, and Don, your op-ed piece, my heart goes out to you. Let's try to explain it to the audience so they can understand. You live, as I understand it, on audience so they can understand. You live, as I understand it, on the north side of Minneapolis, and you've been there for what, a quarter century? Yes, that's right. Okay, it's been a long time. I feel old. We are old.

Same. I just hit half a century as a birthday, so I understand. And walk us through what kind of a neighborhood, before the whole defund the police and the George Floyd situation. What kind of a neighborhood was it? Well, North Minneapolis is a quadrant of the city. It's bound by freeways and park river and so on. And so it's a little bit isolated. And it's also the the fifth of the population, a little less than 20%. So while it's a larger geographical area, it's a small population, it's got the youngest population in the city, and the lowest income population in the city and its highest minority community. And 50% African American. Was it safe? Did it feel safe that it was a high crime or what?

It was the least safe community traditionally. But we had been making progress, I would say, on crime over time gradually. How? That was a big part of what we were doing there in terms of for the last quarter century. Yeah. Working in partnership with the police, with our neighbors, with the Police Athletic League, you know, with the city. And really work block club meetings and national night out and door knocking. And, you know, we started an organization called the Peace Foundation,

Public Engagement, Community Empowerment, and really felt like, like we knew we had a higher level of crime than the rest of the city, but felt like we were making a lot of progress. And were you working with the police? I mean, what was your experience in dealing with the police? Because, of course, we've heard all sorts of different accounts in different pockets of the country. Yeah, well, we've, you know, over the 25 years, we have been working closely with the police because even though we were intensely engaged community members, they were our last resort, our backup people. And so with all the

block clubs and neighborhood organization activities and so on and strategies, the police were the people we called when things fell apart or when things got beyond our capacity. And so I became a council member out of that whole movement of neighborhood engagement. My neighbors asked me to run after we'd kind of succeeded in tamping down crime in our community, our little neighborhood. And then we started the Peace Foundation, and Sandra then took over the Peace Foundation and that morphed into the Northside Achievement Zone, modeled after the Harlem Children's Zone, to address the whole Northside crime through education and whole family support. But I do want to add, though, Megan, while we work with the police, it is true that the police police black low-income communities differently.

And though we were never harmed personally, we knew several stories of black young men who had been harassed by the police. We knew several stories of a different response to our white neighbors who would call the police versus when we did. Dramatically. Dramatically different, Megan. So for instance, go ahead. Thanks. And in fact, one of our white female neighbors, white, blonde hair, blue eyes, you know, single mom, she said that when she would call the police for various things, they would say, why do you live in this neighborhood anyway? You know, you shouldn't even be here. We never heard that.

We never heard that. We never heard that. One of the older white couples who moved like right after we moved in, they said that the police would follow their daughter home, their white daughter from high school. She went to North High to make sure she was safe in our neighborhood. They would drive slowly behind her. Behind her to protect her. All the way home from school. Yeah. And so, and then Donna's council person, you heard the stories. Yeah. And by the way, we are among the highest income people in our neighborhood. So it's not

a class thing. It's a race. And so, yeah. And then I was on the council and I saw, you know, I was sat in on the closed sessions where lawyer, client privilege allowed us to not have an open meeting. And so we could look, review cases and so on. And yes, you saw videotapes of cops kicking people, and we had to settle cases because they had violated the city's policies and had gone beyond the pale and punching and so on and yanking out of their heads and so on. Where did that leave you, you know, emotionally, right? Because you're saying you needed them as a last resort. I'm sure you had some positive interactions with them. Lots of positive. But also this other disturbing strain. So like, how were you, pre-George Floyd,

how are you feeling about the police? A little helpless about that part because we had kind of, I guess you could say, almost resigned ourselves to it because it was such an unfixable issue with the union, the power of the union over the years to accumulate privileges, every negotiation point over the decades and decades would result in some bargaining council and mayor come in, the insulation is so thick. And you're still trying to make concessions, right? You're still trying to put a pause on wages because the economy is down and so on. And then you have to negotiate with the union to pause their wages. And then they want even more privileges. That's how it works. And so instead

of actually shrinking the insulation, the insulation keeps getting padded with every point of negotiation. And Megan, I want to add, but a kind of black life in America is, so on the ground, every officer was not Officer Chauvin, right? So we have great friends who are police, right? And who we wouldn't be able to live in North Minneapolis without them. And at the same time, there's so many systems levels. And Don's mentioning that with the union. So that, Don, you've mentioned that 50% of the time, and three police chiefs worked under you when he was on city council, Megan, and 50% of the time when a chief would fire a police officer like Chauvin, 50% of the time,

because of union negotiations, they would be forced to rehire them. Wow. Yes. So then the chief starts to check his actions. He would not recommend a firing or fire someone unless he was absolutely sure that this one would go through. And half the time it wouldn't. So that meant not only would half of the bad guys come back, but then some bad guys wouldn't even get fired because the chief felt like it wasn't even worth it. This is reminding me of what we see

sometimes with the teachers unions, where you cannot get rid of bad teachers. Right? The union's so powerful and who ends up suffering? The community. And the thing they have in common is that in both cases, it's the African-American community that suffers the most. And so the general racism in the society allows adult prerogatives to supersede black children's and black population prerogatives because it's not worth changing for that population. Right. So that's sort of where you were. Then George Floyd happens, which was disturbing to the country. And Minneapolis started, like the city council then and the mayor started talking about defund

the police. They did defund the police to the tune of several million dollars. And they started making all sorts of statements about how they were going to stop training the police and they were going to not rehire for the positions that police started to vacate in droves, you know, sort of like, don't let the door hit you on the way out. And by the way, we have no desire to replace your position. And how did that manifest in your neighborhood? Did you see the results of that soon? One thing, Megan, the mayor has never been for defunding. So he's a Democratic mayor who is basically on an island and we have a weak mayor system. So 13 council members of the different wards in the city. And in fact, he is reviled and has been humiliated because he would not agree to defunding.

So I just want to stress that. Jacob Fry. Jacob Fry. Yeah, Jacob Fry. Never. I mean, they came to his condo downtown and demanded he say that after the city council did it, that he would defund them. And he said, I'm not going to say that.

No, no and no. And they cursed at him. And, you know, so just so you know. So they got it through without him. That's possible. City council can defund without the mayor's blessing. City council ultimately approves the budget and then they can make decisions through the budget to impact the police. Yes, absolutely. So what did you first start noticing? You know, it's like, I will confess not, not on this level at all, but even on the Upper West Side in New York where I live, you can start to see crime start to move into the area, homelessness move into the area. You could definitely see the lower police presence shortly after New York pulled a

billion dollars away. And just, there was general police malaise in the wake of, you know, all of them being branded as racist and terrible. And, you know, we saw attacks on cops too. So morale went down. So what I read is it was an egregious and extremely dangerous situation where you guys lived. Oh, yeah. Everything was on the extreme. whatever you observed in Upper West Side,

it was multiple times in our community because of the historical trajectories of our population being the most likely to be involved in the criminal justice system. Then we were the most likely to have people return to our community because COVID was, they reduced the populations in the jail for COVID. We're the most likely to have children who did not have good connections to school through internet and so on, and didn't have the kind of parents who were equipped to help them with their homework and schoolwork and work with them during COVID.

And every little inch and detail of quality of life, we were more impacted because of income and class. Wow, that makes perfect sense. I've never heard somebody pull it together like that. Yes, right. What was happening with COVID with the kids, what's happening with the prisons and people being released, going back to the neighborhoods. And at the same time, the police are disappearing. I can't imagine your frustration. And then children started getting shot, which I just, I mean, honestly, Sandra, I can't imagine. I was reading in the account of what happened when you guys had a community block meeting not long ago, a little eight-year-old and a little three-year-old coming to you about the, some odd 60 gunshots that were heard during the course of the meeting.

Oh yeah. Megan, you heard that. Yeah. And it was my first time in the neighborhood, you know, being there for close to 25 years and raising our three daughters there and never wondering, Megan, if they were going to make it home, you know. But it was my first time looking at one of our frightened neighbors, her daughter, and saying, you know, it'll be okay. You know, we're going to protect you. And I knew I wasn't telling the truth, that I wasn't sure. Like for the first time in my 55 years, I felt like as an adult in my community, I was impotent when it came to protecting our children and couldn't promise really that she would be okay. And it has been, Megan, that's the thing. It has been an onslaught. And this is the other thing I

do want to add. The murder of George Floyd, also on top of the COVID and everything that was happening in community and what's happening with the courts. And by the way, the courts are releasing violent offenders. It's one thing to let people go who are not violent. It's another thing when the police arrest and they are right back out on the street, violent folks who are carjacking people at gun point. Carjacking has gone up crazy too. But the other thing also, Megan, that the Band-Aid got ripped off was the racial pain, the trauma associated with yet again another unarmed Black person being killed. So all of that made for a perfect storm. And we are disproportionately impacted. 10-year-old LeDevion Garrett shot in the head driving with his father in our

neighborhood. He's still struggling for his life. He's alive. And this was all within the last couple of months. But we don't know what the quality of his life will be, even if he, and we pray that he survives. A nine-year-old Trinity Otteson Smith, she was shot while jumping on a trampoline just a block from our home at a party. And she was shot in the head. She did not survive. And then there was six-year-old Aniyah, who we call Niyah Allen. And she was shot coming, getting a happy meal with her mom in the car, in the head. And Aniyah didn't survive either. Since we, over this weekend, Megan, or I don't know what day it is now, Tuesday, another three-year-old was shot in our neighborhood.

One was shot just a week ago, a nine-month-old, a bullet grazed. I mean, we've never, and then, I mean, the shootings, we are up 19% of all the shooting victims in the city, Megan. We're up 19% in our precinct. We're precinct four, that's North Minneapolis, 166 people shot. The next highest is 88 people shot. So we are by far 50% of the victims who were shot in the city. But the uptick is not as big as in some neighborhoods in Minneapolis that are more affluent and have never seen this level of violence and are seeing it now. So it's devastating for us. And then when you hear 166 people shot in one part of this lowest population part of the city, it seems like, okay, people got grazed,

people got, you know. But one example, for instance, to show you how anonymous these folks are, when Anaya was shot in the head and killed, a high schooler was shot, the same incident, and was paralyzed. Nobody mentions that because it's such a minor part of the demographic story. But when you hear 166 people killed in our community, you better believe that there's a significant amount of those people who have been maimed. Yes. And paralyzed.

It's stomach turning. This is making me sick to my stomach thinking about these littles getting shot, their lives snuffed out on the way home from McDonald's, doing nothing, sitting with their moms. I mean, the amount of trauma that is being heaped on your community, that even one of those would have resonating effects, but so many in such a short time. Our neighbors are on medication. One of the eight of us who, one family, two of the eight people who filed a lawsuit with us, they had to move from their home where they lived for about 15 years.

Our great neighbors. Great neighbors. Their two houses down from us because their children began to be traumatized. Their 11-year-old started sleeping on his parents' floor for months and began to have all kinds of... Cold sweat. Psycho... Psychological problems.

And they had to move. Up next, Don and Sandra have been working with police for a long time, you know, in tandem with their community, and they have noticed the cops are demoralized. Can you blame them? We'll get into that next. But before we get to that, I want to bring you a feature we have here on the MK show called Real Talk. And that's basically where I get to talk about really whatever I want, whatever we think is interesting you might want to hear about. And today we're going to talk

about Naomi Osaka, because I've gotten into more Twitter fights. I've been getting in a lot of Twitter fights lately for some reason. I actually believe it's because the serious announcement came out recently and now the left is super focused on me. They really would love to destroy me, not just me, but anybody who's considered more of the right. You know, the New York Times, I think it was the Times went after Ben Shapiro recently or they went after Black Rifle Coffee.

It's just like you can see sort of figures on the right or perceived right getting targeted one by one. That's fine. I got this. So I've been critical of Naomi Osaka, who I admire as a tennis player. She's a young gal. She's a killer on the court, number two in the world, because she came out and objected to doing the press conferences after the French Open. Y'all remember that, right? This is the same woman who wore BLM masks of various people killed by police, seven different masks on her face during the U.S. Open last year.

So she clearly has no problem inviting media coverage on her terms. But the press conferences, I guess she sees differently. And she sort of showed her cards about why she didn't like it first. She said, look, I don't like what happens at these press conferences. It feels like kicking a person when they're down. And then she said, if organizations like this think they can just keep saying, do press, you're going to be fined and continue to ignore the mental health of the athletes that are the centerpiece of their cooperation, then I just got to laugh. And the French Open said, well, we do think we're going to fine you because all the athletes talk to the press after the press is the people's

representatives. And now you got to do it. And they were supported by all the grand slams. And so and by the way, this is the highest paid female athlete in the world. Okay, Naomi Osaka made $55 million last year, Thanks to her public image, um, brought to you by the press. That's really how you get to know these athletes and these superstars. Well, then there was pushback, right? Then a bunch of athletes actually sort of came out and said, this is kind of, you know, we all have to do it. We don't, we don't really love it, but you know, you're not alone. And if we have to do the press, so do you. There was more pushback than that, including by the Grand Slam tournaments. And she then came out and expanded on the mental health

messaging. But the problem for Naomi and where I sort of got convinced that this might not be the full story was her sister came out. Her sister came out at the same time and sort of gave it up and said, look, tennis players don't get paid for press conferences. They get paid when they win. And she said, and this is me quoting the older sister, Naomi mentioned to me before the tournament that a family member had come up to her and remarked that she's bad at clay. Okay. Family member at every press conference, she's told she has a bad record on clay. When she lost in Rome, she was not okay mentally. Her confidence was completely shattered. And I think that everyone's remarks and opinions have gotten into her head. And she herself believed she was bad on clay. Maria Osaka wrote,

this isn't true. And she knows that in order to do well and have a shot at winning Roland Garros, that's the French Open, she will have to believe that she can. That's the first step any athlete needs to do, believe in themselves. So her solution was to block everything out. No talking to people who are going to put doubt in her mind. She's protecting her mind, hence why it's called mental health. So many people are picky on this term, thinking you need to have depression or some sort of disorder to be able to use the term mental health. And then she goes on to talk about how tennis players don't get paid for press conferences. They get paid when they win. So there you have it from her sister. That's the truth. She says it. We're not talking about depression. We're talking about trying to

keep negative people out of your head. I get it. I get it. I'm not an athlete, but I get it even in my business. I don't like putting negative people in my head either, but it's part of the job. It's literally part of the conference. And apparently she was wrong. They do get paid for these press conferences because it's part of the whole deal that the athletes agree to when they perform at these tournaments. So I understand her feeling, but that's not a justification for you getting special treatment over all the other athletes, many of whom also hate dealing with the press. That's when Naomi came out and said, oh, no, no, no, no. I've this is about me being an introvert, having huge waves of social anxiety before I speak to the media that I had long bouts of depression since the U.S. Open win in 2018. And I can't I can't speak to the media because it just

causes too much social anxiety for me. Well, the media did what it does. They laud anybody who says mental health, you know, yes, yes. Good for you. You're a leader. There's no more praising anybody for getting past a challenge like that, right? Saying it's tough, but I did it. It's more like lean into your, your whatever, whatever your struggle is, you lean into it. There's no overcoming it. It's just surrender to it. Don't muddle through. Don't, don't deal with the press and sort of emerge victorious. Say I can't. And the press will applaud you all day long. This is where I started to turn on it saying she already gave it up. The sister gave it up. Now she made it sound super big because she was getting all this blowback. And then on the heels of that,

we find out that she has no problem doing press. Since she made this announcement and withdrew from the French Open under all the controversy, she's been on the cover of Vogue Japan, Time, Sports Illustrated. She's done a Netflix documentary, fashion deals, and now she's even promoting a Barbie of herself. This woman has no problem doing press just as long as nobody's asking about how she apparently isn't very good on clay. That's that is what my lawyerly background tells me is happening here. You may disagree. That's fine. This is my opinion. So Clay Travis tweeted out something about her magazine covers and I sort of added on to it saying, don't forget about these two. And then she responded to me on Twitter. Okay. She actually responded saying she blocked me at the same time she responded to me, which is not a very brave move. Um, but I saw it in a news article. Uh,

anyway, it said, seeing as you're a journalist, I would have assumed you would take the time to research what the lead times are for magazines. And if you did that, you would have found out I shot all my covers last year. Well, I understand that a lot of those big magazines, Vogue and probably Sports Illustrated, have a three-month lead time. As for the Time magazine piece, she wrote all about Roland Garros in that magazine. She wrote an essay for the magazine about her decision to withdraw from the French Open. And that was after she was fined

for refusing to take part in the mandated news conferences. So that 100% came after. That did not happen three months prior to Roland Garros. So the point is, she'll do press if on her terms. She just doesn't want to do press that asks her tough questions. I get it. It's just not the way her business works. And that is why people like Rafa Nadal have come out and said, this is me quoting him. We as athletes need to be ready to accept questions and produce answers without the press who are writing the news. We wouldn't

be the athletes we are today. We would not be that popular. This is me adding on. We would not have $55 million in endorsement deals like Naomi does. Ashley Barty, world's number one, said speaking to the press is part of the job. We know what we're signing up for. Even the Women's Tennis Association came out and said, look, we understand the importance of mental health, but professional athletes have a responsibility to, to deal with their fans, to deal with the media, to speak to the media surrounding their competition. And since then, you've had people like Boris Becker come out and said, look, if you can't deal with the media, it's very difficult to be a professional tennis player. He said, it's part of the job.

A lot of us don't like it, but it's part of the job. And then he went on to say her claim that this is just too pressure filled. Doesn't hold up. You know, like he made the point of like, look at these people who are dealing with the loss of their businesses, the loss of their jobs. That's pressure. Speaking to the media, asking about how you're not that great on clay, that's not pressure. And we shouldn't be bending over backwards to say that she's a hero for saying that, you know, for saying she can't handle it. I see all of that. i will note just as an aside that um martina navartarola she decided to weigh in on this that's probably my favorite favorite part of the whole dust up she actually called me an asshole

for for my tweet right like saying she blocked me and i guess she's not that tough unless she's on the court so she called me so I responded and then I will read it to you. Um, actually being an asshole, as you so elegantly put it, is calling for riots everywhere as you did after George Floyd died while you sat in one of your mansions in zero danger. 19 people died in said riots, including David Dorn. Now you want to pretend you care about others, please. And the other thing about Martina, which I also pointed out was this woman was among those who piled up on Naomi when she first made her. Martina came out and said, this is not a mental health issue. It's a mental issue. And then told Naomi to quote woman up.

Then she got all this blowback and suddenly she wants to be her champion. I respect you more if you just be honest, right? Like you either for from the beginning or not, but like, let's not pretend you're her champion. Cause you're not. Um, anyway, petty dust ups to some extent, but I also, to me, it underscores how you must have one view in today's day and age, right? Or they're going to pile on you. I, I have to accept Naomi's statements that she can't deal with any media unless it's Vogue or Time or Sports Illustrated. And unless it was prior to Roland Garros, I have to. I'm not allowed to doubt that.

Why not? What a journalist's job is, frankly, to be skeptical. It's not to be a cheerleader for the for, you know, all the people that we cover. And I just think that the pushback to try to silence opinions that are nuanced and maybe off the sort of beaten path where everybody's going is problematic, right? It troubles me. And I think it's part of the reason that the trust in media is so low and we're so fractured as a country. So look, I wish her all the best. I hope she bailed on Wimbledon. She's apparently going to the Olympics. I hope she wins and I hope she represents the country and kick some butt. I also hope that she gets honest with herself and and realizes that the more you lean into challenges, however real they may be and conquer them, the stronger you are. And that's the example I'd like to set for my own daughter. And I hope more women set for theirs. So I'll leave it at that. And I'd love your thoughts on it. You can submit them by going subscribing to the show, downloading the show, and you can leave me a review. Five

stars would be lovely. And your thoughts on the whole back and forth. Okay. Now back to our stars, Sandra and Don. Is it true that there have been no arrests in these cases you just mentioned? There have been some. Not in the children's shot. Oh yeah. Not in the children's shot. No, no, no, no, no. Sorry. You're right, Megan. Yes. My gosh. So far, no justice. No justice. And so those people are still out there. They're still out there. And the cops, of course, not only were the cops defunded, they were also demoralized. Right. You know, there was this whole concept of you guys are bad guys. You all are.

You all are. You're all chauvin. You're all chauvin. We don't like you. We want to get rid of you. Right. Chauvin, we don't like you. We want to get rid of you. And so there's been a kind of naive type of leadership, totally misunderstanding the impact of negative feedback and criticism on the workforce. At the end of the day, they're the workforce. And if you constantly are putting down your workers, even though some of them are not good workers, everybody is going to be eventually demoralized. There have been studies showing that, right, that where police misbehave or, you know, commit an egregious act and it's handled on a local level, the police officers punished, fired, what have you, things can get better. But when it becomes a big national story and it winds up on loop on some national news program over and over and over, and the narrative

gets started that the cops are bad, the cops are all racist, the cops are all this, that, the other thing, police pull back. Yeah. And they're spitting. They're spitting at cops. Yeah, they're spitting and attacking. Yelling at cops, throwing things. Yeah. And when the cops come to help, people are yelling at them. And one of the things, Megan, I tell you is, so like you were mentioning, when it's handled on a local level, what period we're in now in our history in this country is that it's no longer just local because we have smartphones. So this is national.

The part of the force that is racist, that does abuse communities of color, they're now on blast. And so that has gone viral. Repeatedly. Repeatedly across every city. Everybody's had the shared experiences. And so all of that trauma is swelling up in this perfect storm. Right.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing, Sandra, that, you know, the bad cops now, we can't see them again? It's both. It's both a good thing and a bad thing. Right? It's both. But how we handle it. Yeah. That is.

That could make it a good thing. That's what, that's the challenge. And so far, our city council and many, many councils across the country are not, they're handling it irresponsibly, naively, and dangerously. And that's this big overarching sweep that we are defunding and abolishing the police. And we don't care what the collateral damage is. So a few folks got to die. And by the way, they're all going to look like Don and I. In Minneapolis, of all of the people shot year to date, 83% of those people are Black, Megan. And we only make up 19% of the city.

Okay? Wow. And it seems as if the activist community are considering that to be the necessary collateral damage for progress. Because they're not talking about it. What's the racial makeup of the city council? Do you know? Oh, it's pretty diverse.

Yeah. So our two council people who cover North Minneapolis are both defunders, for example. Yeah, and they're covering the most impacted community. The place where all the folks look like us who are getting shot and killed. All the children that we mentioned, Megan, we didn't say it, but they're all African American. Why don't those two city council members take a look at that? I mean, you think, you ask yourself, how can they be in favor of defunding? Exactly. Exactly. We're befuddled

by that as well. And we were shocked when we saw them have the big defund announcement last summer on CNN. And by the way, that is in defiance of the polls that show that most African Americans are opposed to that. Don't want that. That's right. I mean, I've been saying that just in my neighborhood. Like, I live in a doorman building. I'm going to be fine. I'm not out there calling for defunding the police, even though I see that they're far from perfect.

I won't have to pay the penalty, right? I understand it's black and brown communities in some of the more crime-ridden areas who, and, you know, moms and dads and kids who are going to have to deal with this, which is why it's so irritating where I live to see it's usually white women wearing Lululemon, you know, and a sign trying to make pronouncements for communities that they have no real connection to. Yes. It is so funny you said that. So you know all the drama with George Floyd Square, how they had blocked it off and you couldn't get in and they weren't letting media in at different times. But when you would go, it was becoming a garrison community. And when you went, we went, you know, a couple times. It was white young women who were standing guard

and manning these little booths, you know, when you would come in. And I mean, they were like, they're in force. And it was like, oh my goodness. Like you get to say whether George Floyd Square is open or not. And you get to say whether we can come is open or not. And you get to say whether we can, whether we can come. Well, they didn't. Of course, they were saying it to media for sure. But yeah, it is.

It is the it is absolutely. And because, Megan, here's the deal. We have to do both. And we have to reform the system of policing. We talked about what, I mean, we are adamant about that. And we have an African-American police chief who grew up in Minneapolis. And I mean, Megan, if you met Chief Arredondo, you'd want to be his best friend. And he's competent. He's not just nice. He's competent. And he sued the police department himself as a police officer because of the racism, but he didn't give up on the profession and ultimately became chief and has all kinds of things that he's working on in terms of reform.

Wait, didn't we see him testify? Did we see him testify at the Chauvin trial? Yeah, I remember him, of course. And he's saying that Chauvin's action violated everything. He was not on the side of Derek Chauvin. People forget it was Chauvin, but it was a bunch of police officers against Chauvin at that trial. So let me move forward to the lawsuit because I do want to get your thoughts on that. So you guys, to your credit, and I'm now hearing your history about what you've done in your own neighborhood, it makes more sense to me because you've been organized, you've been active, you've been proactive. So this starts happening and the deaths start happening and you, a team of eight, as I understand, eight plaintiffs get together and file a lawsuit against the city

council. And I understand the mayor, I think um you can explain that but saying you've failed to live up to the city charter which which requires that there be a certain number of police per member of the citizenry and you've fallen below and you won yeah it's amazing so tell me how did you feel about the lawsuit and what was the reaction to it locally? Well, you know, let me say that when we filed the lawsuit, we understood that this 730 to 750 number that it will eventually be after the new census numbers come out was not even adequate. And that he's talking about police officers for a city our size. census numbers come out, was not even adequate. And that he's talking about police officers for a city our size. 750 is what the charter requires for a population our size.

The city charter. Yeah. Got it. But that's 130 less than what the force is designed for yeah so and where you were a year ago yeah yeah well we were about 100 100 less than where we were a year ago yeah okay yeah at the beginning of 2020 it was like 840 right and they were projecting i'm trying to get my numbers in front of me um but they were projecting that the numbers were going to fall. OK, here it is. They were saying by June of 2022, we'll have only 669 officers.

It's only 669. So it was going in the wrong direction, which makes perfect sense when you understand they had resolved. Don't replace the people who are retiring. Let's take away the budget. You know, we don't even have the money to rehire. So you win you do i mean i love when people use the law somebody who used to practice law i just love because it's still there for us and you win that so now is it is it is it just total victory or is this just

step one step one because you know the city is going to appeal yeah um and what they're saying is and by the way megan one thing I want to stress is we're not demanding more police, right? More police. It's like, you know, you have a hundred, I have a hundred dollars, Megan, and you steal 50 from me. And I say, I want my 50 back. And you say, oh, you want more money. I mean, it's not more. We just want it. And that's what the defunders are making it seem like that we just want a police state. And right. We just want to, and that's what the defunders are making it seem like that we just want a police state. And right, we want a sufficient number of police because even what the judge said, you have to have at minimum 730 by June 22nd, I'm sorry, June 2022. That for us is, I mean, it's scary because that's a whole nother year, for example. And

730 is a minimum. It doesn't get us back even to where we were. 110 short of where we were. This is not more. Yeah. This is actually less. Right. It's less than what we had. It's just a sufficient level for our city, which we actually don't believe is sufficient. No, not anymore. But we understand the charter. And we're just saying, do what the charter says. At least.

At least. That's our document. of change, the amount of protests, the amount of rides in the street after George Floyd, which I understand. I mean, it was horrific, but you don't see anything after these children, you know, like where, where are all the protests for these three kids, for the little girls, for the little boy who's on what life support right now. And I've heard you saying, Sandra, you'll, you're, if you have to choose, if you had to choose how your child died, was murdered, you, was murdered, you'd have to choose by a police officer because then at least you'd get some attention. Yeah, because we go to the victims. In the egregious, devastating event that that were to happen, right?

You want people to remember your child, to rally behind you, to make sure the perpetrator is apprehended. And that's not happening. To remember the anniversary of your child's death. Yes. I've heard grandmothers cry, Megan, and say, what about my child? My grandchild. Doesn't he deserve for people to come and rally around us? And it's not happening.

We have vigils. Every time a child dies like that, we have vigils. And sometimes the vigils go on for days or weeks as a child is in the hospital. And there'd be a couple dozen people, three dozen people, 50 people. But missing in action is the protest community that attends when a police officer kills someone. So it's not then, you have to deduce that the important thing for that community is not the loss of life of an African American, it is the taking of life by a cop. Right. It's not about the value of the one who died. It's the value of the one who killed. Right.

And so all black lives don't actually matter. Cops, cop killers. If a cop kills you, then your life matters. Because if it didn't, they'd be taking a both both and approach, Megan. And they'd be saying, while we reform the police, the system of policing to stop this egregious killing that happens across our country of unarmed black men and women, we also will work with the police on those reforms. And so that we have a sufficient level of police, the ones who actually got into the profession because they care about

society. There are some police out there. We will affirm them. We're going to affirm them. Because they actually are taking care of the people we care about. Yes. Right? So if you make it about how the community is treated,

about the children in the community, then it leads to a whole different set of habits and responses than what's happening now. You start coming to a conclusion that's wise. Yeah. Then you start saying to the community, hey, guys, you've got to cooperate with the police and tell, if you know who shot this child, tell the police and stop this foolish no snitching business.

Yeah. They're not all the enemy. Different approach to the whole thing. Don't leave me now. We got more coming up in 60 seconds. In June of 2020, the city council announced it would dismantle the police department and quote, end policing as we know it. And they said we're going to replace cops with community-based public safety programs. So that sounds, I guess, okay in theory. I don't know what it is, a community-based public safety program.

I mean, my reaction from way over here is I think I'd rather have just a cop with a gun if somebody was trying to carjack me. I don't know what the community-based public safety program does, but what is that and what do you think of that? Well, first let me say that if you want community-based public safety, you can look at our neighbors over the last 25 years that we've been there. We've engaged with every neighbor who comes in and moves in. You know, sometimes we overlook it when we got too busy or didn't notice. We talk to them. We have meetings.

We get neighbors together to deal with a particular problem property. We go over to the house where the problem is occurring. We talk to the people there. We call their landlord. It's going on. And we have been doing it. So it's kind of like, hey, guys, can we just be realistic about this? Are you just talking about 30 guys walking up and down the street who don't have any connection to the neighborhood?

Or are you talking about a real deeply integrated plan that's integrated into the neighborhood itself? This is back to your point of it's not either or. It's not either or. But I do have a, so it has to be both, Ann Megan. So we do have an Office of Violence Prevention in Minneapolis, and there's a lot of models around the country of getting people from the community who are actually there building relationships and knowing who some a lot of our violence is gang related right now in the city. A lot of it is gang related. And so they know the gang members an armed robber fled to Minneapolis from St. Paul. There was a chase. He crashed.

And our African-American head of the precinct, Charlie Adams, he was there. Other police were there. They're trying to talk the guy down. He said he was going to kill them or himself. They're trying to talk the guy down. He said he was going to kill them or himself. So they figured it was mental health. Charlie, because he's from the neighborhood, he had police. He didn't call for more police. He called for some of the violence interrupters that he knew who were from the neighborhood. And he called the kid's mom, the young man's mom, got his number because of the connections.

And she said, don't kill my son. Don't kill my son. And he said, ma'am, that's the last thing I want to do. That's why I'm calling you. And they were able to, with the police, with some folks from the community, actually talk him out of that situation. Right. But the violence prevention folks weren't going to be able to do it by themselves. And the police were able to deescalate the situation with having some people there.

Now that is a perfect scenario, but you have to have policing. That's the thing. You have to have both and. You guys have to hold up. Everything about running for office. One or both of you. Yeah. Seriously. Megan people ask us that all the time. They're like, could one of you run? Yes. Do it. Come on. We need more practical solutions based people out there instead of the far extremists. You know, I don't want to listen to the lady in the Lululemon anymore, right?

I want people who are living it and actually trying to solve it out there, you know, the pointy end of the spear, trying to set policy. Why did you get off the city council, Don? You got to get back on the city council. And Sandra, yeah, I want something more city council. I ran for mayor. I had to get off the council to council. And Sandra, yeah, I want something more city council. I ran for mayor. I had to get off the council to do that because both races are simultaneous. Yeah.

Well, how do we get rid of Jacob Fry and get you in there? We're actually, because Jacob is pro-both-and, we are supporting him. Well, I'm not supporting him. I want you. Okay. He's the same person in the room. Do you guys have, in all seriousness, do you have any sort of pamphlet or written materials on how you're doing this that people in other communities could see so they could learn? Yeah, because people have been calling and asking us.

And in fact, even in Minneapolis, there are other groups who want to sue the city. Because it seems to be now the only... When your elected representatives ignore you, it seems as if the only other choice is the law. Right, right. Until you can get them unelected. Right. And so we are working passionately to get sensible, balanced people. It's about being balanced. Yeah.

Both and, sensible. We're not against anybody. We're for people and for life. But how can we help in the meantime, though? Because as you say, they're going to appeal the ruling. In the meantime, you don't have enough cops. And I was just, I was talking to Larry Elder about Cori Bush, this representative out of Missouri. She's a defund the policer and just came out and she spent 70, $70,000 on her own private police force. No, it must be nice. Must be nice. No, no, you guys, I'm sure you don't have an extra $70,000 on a ticket to hire private security force to patrol your neighborhood. Where is this, Megan? Cori Bush out of Missouri. You know, she's a representative out of Missouri. She's big on the defund police.

Three of our city council members did the same thing, Megan. They got private security. On taxpayer dollar. When they felt threatened. Oh, my gosh. Doesn't that drive you crazy? Yeah, it is crazy making. The big thing, Megan,

is we're open. We even had some folks from Portland call. We haven't had the meeting yet, but yeah, people from all around the country are asking how they do it. We have a law firm, Upper Midwest Law Center, and want to give them a shout out. They did our case pro bono, by the way. And so they are talking to other people, but the main thing is that you get together and we have to work on two fronts. We work in terms of the law. If you're, if you're elected officials are not working with you, then you have to find a law firm that will support you. And you just move, you know, you just, you just get it going. And by the way, we've talked about the people who lost lives, businesses, our economy is in

perils right now, Megan. And, and the people who are hurt first are the local black businesses, right? Who can't stay open after the rioting and looting. I mean, they have cried for George Floyd Square to be reopened. Corporations are leaving downtown Minneapolis. They may not come back. And again, it's a conspiracy of both COVID, but also the violence. And knowing that they have a city council that is saying, we don't care if you can't protect your employees downtown. We're moving to abolish. And we don't care if you have to close your business. Close your businesses.

We don't care. Yeah. And in fact, de facto, we don't care if your three children have to die. That's just a collateral damage. We don't care for our economy. And I mean, we're just going down on so many fronts. So the business community joining in, and we are partnered with the business community, the Chamber of Commerce, joining in and really doing an all out.

If you are balanced, you have a balanced approach and you are middle of the road people, because we don't want extremes on the right, nor on the left. Right. And making the middle of the road people, we have to find those folks again and join with them so that we save not just our cities, but our entire democracy. And to hold up that middle, that sensible middle, so that people can see that, oh, there is a sensibility out there. There is a balanced voice. There is something to come back to. I am ready to fund your campaign. I think we should go for the governor's mansion. I don't think I love you too. This is,

it's so wonderful. Just have such a bomb of sense dumped on us. You know, it's like, usually I listen to the partisans who say like racial justice, and then they're hurting people in the inner cities. And you're like, well,

I kind of want to object, but I don't want to be called mean names. And then, you know, you hear people on the other side saying like Derek Chauvin did nothing wrong. And it's like, well,

it's just, it's so nice to hear you guys put it in terms everyone can understand and get behind. You just need a bigger platform. You got to like, at least start a podcast, do something. We need more of you. Oh, you're kind. You're very kind. We appreciate it. Yeah. Good luck. God bless you guys. I'll continue to follow. We'll continue to follow it on the show. We'll say a prayer for that little boy too, still in the hospital and for all of you guys in your community. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much,

Megan. All right. Continuing with our daily release of these podcasts, we're gearing up now. We're doing four a week. Tomorrow, we've got another show for you and we're going to focus on what's happening in Cuba.

And what about Hong Kong, right? What about these pushes for independence and try to get rid of these oppressive regimes over these countries? Are they going anywhere? And do you understand them? I'd like to understand them better. And I'm going to walk you through it. We're going to keep it at 101.

So it's sort of a primer on both of those situations. I think you'll appreciate it. I hope you do. And we'll talk then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. The Megyn Kelly Show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures. you