The Megyn Kelly Show - Dems' "Dark Brandon" Scare Tactics, And Reality of AI Facial Recognition Tech, with Jesse Kelly and Kashmir Hill | Ep. 696

Episode Date: January 5, 2024

Megyn Kelly is joined by Jesse Kelly, host of TheFirst TV’s “I’m Right,” to discuss the Biden administration switching gears to focus on Donald Trump and January 6 in his 2024 campaign, the truth about the left’s “Dark Brandon” strategy to scare voters away from Trump, Nikki Haley falling into the Democrats’ trap with recent Civil War comments, her latest attempt at clean up by invoking “black friends," how an NBC News reporter tried to smear Vivek Ramaswamy and the way Ramaswamy clapped back, the attempts by the media to smear Republicans as supportive of white supremacy, New Hampshire passing a bill to ban "gender-affirming medical care" for minors, one young Democrat speaking out in support of the ban, outrageous racism from the left in the wake of Claudine Gay's Harvard exit, and more. Then Kashmir Hill, author of "Your Face Belongs To Us," joins to discuss the ways we're losing our privacy already thanks to technology, an AI company tracking our “faceprint” without us knowing, the scary ease of finding someone’s address or name from AI technology and facial recognition, how to fight back against this technology, and more. Kelly: https://www.jessekellyshow.com/Hill: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/691288/your-face-belongs-to-us-by-kashmir-hill/   Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday. It's so great to make it to Friday, isn't it? Especially I feel it for my kids. They're just so happy. Here where we live, it's a shorter day on Fridays, which makes it even better for them. And I can feel their relief. I feel secondhand relief. Although I got to tell you, when I was off for two weeks, I was missing you guys. I was missing you. I was missing my team and I was missing the news and I was missing you and doing the show. So, you know, vacation's good in the right amount. Meantime, we begin the show with sanity prevailing in New Hampshire.

God bless the lawmakers in New Hampshire. This actually gave me hope for the future of our country. Twelve Democratic lawmakers crossed the aisle to side with Republicans, two of whom voted the wrong way. The Republicans were not unanimous. Shame on you two. Last night to pass a bill banning so-called gender affirming surgeries for minors. That's not what they are. They're not gender affirming. They cut off children's body parts, their genitals before they can even legally smoke a cigarette because they suffer from some gender confusion. What sane society allows this? And yet they passed a ban on it in the North Carolina House. It still has to go to the Senate.

We believe they have the votes. And then we'll see what Sununu does in New Hampshire. This is Chris Christie's big state. This is where he's polling between 10 and 11%. He's against these bans. Pay attention, New Hampshireites. Your favorite at 10% is against you on this issue. If New Hampshire passes this ban, it will be the 21st state in the union to do so. And these bans should be unanimous. They should be in all 50 states. Unfortunately, they didn't go so far as to

include the ban on puberty blockers into cross-sex hormones, which sterilizes children. I mean, do they know that? Are they paying attention? Because what in what world is it okay to sterilize an 11 year old? Okay. One step at a time. I have nothing but praise today for those Dems who crossed the aisle to make this happen. Wait until you hear what happened to one progressive lawmaker when he dared to stand firm against the mob. Plus Vivek Ramaswamy once again puts on a masterclass on how to deal with the media. Joining me now to discuss it all, Jesse Kelly, host of The Jesse Kelly Show, and I'm right over on The First TV. Jesse, welcome back to the show. Great to have you. It is great to be here, Megan, although I want to push back on you on something there.

You said it's great that the kids are almost out of school on Friday. I like when my kids are in school, Megan. My house is so quiet. My wife and I were talking this morning and there was nobody interrupting. There was no screaming. There was no messes anywhere. It was just like a real conversation. I love when my kids are in school. You know, you have a good point. I was just talking about this with friends in the summer, you know, when they're off full time. Let's just say it's like a hard to find private adult time. And when you have like my youngest is 10 and you get this on the door, like what's going on in there? What are you doing? Yeah.

So thankfully, I take your point. Our kids have our kids have been scolded enough to know if the door is closed, just walk away or else dad's going to. Walk away. Okay. So maybe we might have another school day on Monday, by the way, because snow day, because we're expecting snow here in the Northeast. Remember snow? Remember how we used to get snow? I am going to join you in the Northeast actually next week. Well, not join you, but I'll be in the Northeast next week, Megan. I'm used to living in Houston now. So basically I'm charming soft when it comes to the cold. I used to be, I'll not join you, but I'll be in the Northeast next week, Megan. I'm used to living in Houston now. So basically, I'm charming soft when it comes to the cold.

I used to be, I grew up in Monskin. I used to be all about that life. And now the second it hits 40, I'm throwing on winter clothes and hats. It's my wife and me bundled up. So I'll be dying up there. Oh, no. I have to say, like, I really miss snow. As a kid who spent her first 10 years in Syracuse and then moved to Albany, then went back to Syracuse for college. I miss snow. I used to

have snows like winters where I couldn't go outside because the snow was over my head. You know, my parents had to be there holding my hand so that I, I could breathe. Now it's like every snow storm gets reduced from eight inches to three inches and then comes out at a half an inch or passes you by altogether. It just feels so lame now. Megan, you know why you miss snow and I don't miss snow? Because you were a daughter and daughters get spoiled by their parents. Not that I'm saying you were spoiled, but daughters don't get woken up at 5 a.m. to go shovel the driveway like my dad did with me in Montana before school. 5 a.m. he'd walk in and he'd laugh. He'd hand me a snow shovel and say,

better bundle up. It's cold out there. I was just shoveling the snow. That didn't happen to young Megyn Kelly. That's why you miss it. And I don't. You're right. Never, never once. I've never had to do it. And now it's fun because I have a little like a walkway to get to my studio. And we even had it heated because Doug was like, we'll make the kids. The kids will have to shovel the snow off of that. I was like, they're never going to do it. It's going to be preschool. They're not going to go out there.

Like, I am not mean enough to them. So I'm like, we're putting the heaters underneath the tiles. So I get out there. Because you're right. We're raising them soft these days. That's right. All right. Well, anyway, we may be having snow this weekend and my fingers cross that it actually happens. Something else that's happening today going into the weekend is not snow, but the opposite darkness, not the light of the beautiful snowflakes, but the darkness of Brandon, who

returns to the stump today as Joe Biden officially starts doing 2024 campaign events and is going reportedly to deliver the message that democracy depends on him, on his reelection. And now we see the strategy unfolding. The New York Times did a long piece on it this week, and we're going to hear more of it today. The Biden strategy of running on Bidenomics and his record is failing. You've seen Trump is leading him in all seven of the swing states among likely voters, among registered voters. He's just crushing. So they've got to do something different. And so they're going to go back with a strategy, Jesse, that let's face it, has worked for the Democrats in 20 and 22 and even in some extent the 23 special elections, which is make it all about Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump,

Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, democracy dies and doctors, that kind of thing. What do you make of it? I think it's as much as I despise it and despise him. It is brilliant politics. That's very effective. It was earlier this week, Megan, Brandon Johnson, that idiot mayor of Chicago, that commie piece of trash who's just wrecking the city. He gave a speech and he's very unpopular there, including by the areas that elected him, because the city's full of illegals. It's full of crime now where everyone's looking around. Oh, my gosh, how could this happen? Anyway, so he gets up and he gives a speech, Megan, and he starts talking about the Confederacy. Well, this is Jefferson Davis and the Confederacy. And everyone kind of rolled their eyes and mocked him.

But it was brilliant. Yeah, you hate me. You hate me. You hate me. But look over there. They're even worse. That's it. There's the demons over there.

It's really all Joe Biden has. He's going to do the exact same thing for Trump. There's no record to run on. Joe Biden is not popular at all. But they understand because of media poisoning and messaging, which they've been very effective of. Donald Trump is not popular either. And so they're going to make sure the election is about Trump and not Joe Biden. And I guess we'll see what happens. Yeah. I mean, whenever they talk about Trump,

Biden's numbers do go up. And I don't know that Trump's exactly go down, but Democrats and independents get reminded of the drama that's around Trump that they didn't really enjoy. Maybe they enjoyed his policies, but they didn't enjoy his behavior around J6. And just when he was in office, there was a lot of drama where you kind of want to be thinking about your own life, not the life of the guy sitting in the oval, right? That's kind of the ideal government where that's one benefit of Joe Biden is you don't hear from him that often. He's the shrinking executive because he has to be. Sadly, he's actually running a lot of crazy ass left wing policies out of that oval, thanks to the people around him. But in any event, I do, I agree with you. I think it's a smart strategy, whether it's going to overcome the deficit that already exists.

I don't know. We've got, what, 11 months now, and those's going to overcome the deficit that already exists. I don't know. We've got, what, 11 months now, and those are going to include four criminal trials for Trump and so on and so forth. So, I mean, how do you see it now? A lot of Republicans I talked to out in Montana over the weekend, over their vacation, they're feeling bullish. They're feeling like Trump's going to get it and Trump's going to win. Yeah, I don't think I echo that. I'm not saying he's not, but I definitely don't echo the optimism because this is what're removing him from the ballot in Maine. We have the indictments. We have this and that.

And people ask me all the time, hey, Jesse, what are they planning? What are they planning? What are they planning? The answer is everything. Everything. Every different commie in this system, from secretaries of state to the commie street trash to the senators, doesn't matter which one they are. They're all going to go all in with whatever it takes to try to smear Trump, stop Trump, everything else. Are they going to be successful? I don't have any

idea. I don't have a crystal ball. But they were successful last time, Megan, when Donald Trump was president of the United States of America. That's before he was convicted of any felonies, which he will be as unjust and stupid as that is. He's going to be convicted of any felonies, which he will be, as unjust and stupid as that is. He's going to be convicted of felonies. The media is going to make him out to be a disastrous insurrectionist felon. And is that too much for the norms and normas of this country to vote for? I don't have the answer to that question, but I don't feel near as confident as everyone else right now. Honestly, I roll my eyes, Megan, when I see people on the right talk about the poll numbers. Look at the polls. The polls look

great. The right does this thing where the left will make us eat 10 pounds of cow crap. And the second they hand us a mint to wash the taste out of our mouth, we celebrate it like it's some kind of a victory. I remember when Trump got arrested in Atlanta and they put his mugshot up there. They arrested the former president over ridiculous charges, and they're going to send him to prison for that. He's going to go to state prison in Georgia if he gets convicted to that. No ifs, ands, or buts because of the appeals process there. And the right spent an entire day celebrating how cool the mugshot was. We're not even playing the same game here. They're all in on their game. They're all in. They are going to do

everything they can to destroy him, destroy his people and everything else. And we still we still pretend like it's a game on our side. Wow. Did you see the new 18 poll? I find it to be childlike and ridiculous, to be honest. Well, and one bad thing about those polls is, you know, the polls look pretty good before those 2022 midterms too. And we all know how that worked out without the last minute conviction of any of those candidates and so on. So you're right there. It's fraught with peril. People ask me all the time, same thing, like what's going to happen. And I think it's like obvious at this point that Trump's going to get the nomination. Something absolutely catastrophic would have to happen for him not

to get the nomination. But am I that confident he's actually going to win? I'm not because the Democrats are very good at what they do and they're very disciplined. And, you know, I was talking to somebody today, like friends with a diehard Democrat, and that Democrat was saying, what do you mean he's not too old? What do you mean he's totally competent? What do you mean what's happening at the border? So there are a lot of these Democrats who are maybe well educated, but low information voters who they don't have the problems with Joe Biden that you might or I might and are fully prepared to rush to the polls and to get the caravans to go vote for him. And God knows what else will happen on Election Day. I don't know. It's dark. OK,

there are other candidates in the race. He's not. Yeah, go ahead. No, I'm sorry. I just that reminded me of a story. Speaking of Chicago, sorry to interrupt it. What you just said reminded me of a story. I was on vacation myself a couple weeks ago and ended up at a big table and there were

a couple of liberal white women there, you know, the most evil creatures on the planet. And they were from Chicago and they were bragging. These are rich white women and they were bragging about how they voted for Brandon Johnson. And one of them called him BJ. Like that's like they were buddies. That's all. I love BJ. We love BJ. And other people at the table, it wasn't really a political talk, but they started talking about the crime situation in Chicago, how bad it was. People were getting shot and robbed and verbatim, Megan, on my life, on my life, cross my heart and hope to die. This is what she said. Well, yeah, you might get robbed, but you won't get targeted. What?

That was honestly what she said, Megan. I know. Well, you might get robbed, Megan. If you go to Chicago, they might stick a gun in your face and take your wallet, but they're not going to seek you out to murder you. So what's the big deal? What are you complaining about? That's that's how far gone these people are.

Some of these people, Megan, some of these people are so far gone. Their entire worldview has been built up by this. You can't you can't pull it out like like a game of Jenga or their entire world comes crumbling down. That woman could get mugged tonight, Megan, tonight on her way home. That woman could get assaulted and mugged and she would wake up tomorrow and vote Democrat. I don't know how you fix that. Well, this brings me to my second topic, which is the downfall of Claudine Gay. And I've heard many different takes on if you zoom out, what does it mean?

Our friends over on the Ruthless program, they were saying this is great, great news because it's a it's a win. It's finally like a win for the right, which never has its shit together and they never band together to get anything done. And this is one instance in which, you know, you had the free beak and you had Chris Ruffo, you had all these other commentators online, and then you had the help of some centrist and left of center, very well-known folks like Bill Ackman pushing for it. And it was a win to get this charlatan removed from what should have been a prestigious position at one point, whether it is today, serious doubts. Okay. So I can see that. Then you've got the leftist woke crowd, absolutely melting down that this was racist to remove her, that this is just part of white people's rage in seeing black women elevated to the positions of power that we deserve.

We whites are very angry about black women like Claudine getting elevated. And that's what this is really about. Like our anger at her ascent to a position of power. Obviously, you and I don't agree with that shit. But but, you know, the black women are still with Joe Biden big time. And I do wonder whether they're more in that second camp like, yeah, you know, they tend to be more woke. They tend to be more Democrat. So how does it all shake out? The right feels energized. The center left is migrating to us because they see wokeism has corrupted our nation or the core woke left is totally activated. That, as Rufo put it, a scalp was taken by one of their beloved

token black women atop the positions of power in America? First of all, it's pretty emblematic that our first scalp is one that doesn't have hair. That's that's one. It wasn't our scalp. It wasn't our scalp. Yes, we helped. Christopher Rufo did great work in the free beacon. They did great work on the plagiarism and things like that. Flaunting gay is gone because some of, as you pointed out, the center left came for her and the donors came for her. This reminds me of when Andrew Cuomo got sacked in New York. Everyone celebrated on the right because Andrew Cuomo is a piece of trash.

The right didn't take out Andrew Cuomo. Letitia James and the Democrat machine there knifed Andrew Cuomo on the ribs. The right had nothing to do with that whatsoever. They were unable to take him out. We celebrate when the commies kill each other, but that's what commies have always done. So look, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Frankly, Claudine Gay being fired at Harvard is just a good start. You'd be better off if you fired everybody on the campus, bulldozed the buildings to the ground and made it into an orphanage or something like that. That would actually be better for the country. As far as what it means for Democrats, you're going to see a ton of something

in this next year. And Joe Biden actually gave the game away with his opening ad. He ran some opening ad. This is opening ad for 2024. And one of the main issues, if not the only issue, if I remember right, he cited in there was voting rights, voting rights. What is it, 1950? What is he talking about voting rights? Well, what they're going to do is an endless amount of black outreach in 2024, because one of the things that you know that most people do not in Democrat circles is they must have 92, 93 percent of the black vote to win elections. If that number even drops down to 80, Democrats cannot win national elections. Their party is based on getting virtually every black vote in the country. They are losing some of them right now because of the brilliant GOP stunt of shipping

illegals into places like Chicago and New York. They're shipping these people into the poor black communities. Poor black communities already had crappy schools. Now they're overrun with a bunch of kids who don't even speak English, and they're mad about the whole thing. But what I'm saying is Democrats are going to have to spend an unusual amount of time and money doing black outreach right now. And things like this clotting gay stuff hurt that cause. That's why Obama was behind the scenes pushing to keep her. They have to maintain that base, that black woman base, the black voting base, or they're

not going to be able to keep power. And you're going to see a lot of that in the 2024 election season. It's amazing to me. It's like they they want to say, oh, she was fired because she's a black woman. And meanwhile, the truth is, the only reason she had the job is because she was a black woman. That's what people are objecting to. If she had been qualified, if she had done her job well, if she'd been a true scholar, even if she'd been a leftist, that would have been fine.

I mean, look at like and I'm not just picking conservatives, but look at Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She's a black woman. She's totally brilliant. I guarantee you Ayaan Hirsi Ali has never plagiarized anybody in her life. I'd be thrilled if she got elevated to the president of Harvard or she's at the Hoover Institution. Let's make it Stanford tomorrow, as would most people who are objecting to Claudine Gay's behavior. It's not about race or her gender for people who want her gone. It's it's the fact that she's a fraud. It's the fact that she doesn't belong in the position. And we all know it. And

even the people at Harvard have known it for a long time. Yeah. But this is what the communists does, Megan. They know that, too. The people who are using that, they use these shields forever because they've always been effective on the right, because the right has some sort of a moral founding, even though the right can get crazy, too. But they have some sort of a moral fabric. And the communist does not. He has no moral fabric. So he uses your values against you. You what if you if someone actually thought you were a racist, Megan, if they genuinely thought that that would bother you because you're not because you're a human, it would bother you if somebody thought that the communist knows that they know you're not, but they know that.

So they understand a great way to maybe attack Megyn Kelly or destroy her arguments is simply call her a racist. They do this all the time. You're a misogynist. You're a racist. You're a Nazi. You're a white supremacist. And what it does is it gets you off the topic at hand. I see the right play this game all the time. It gets you off the topic at hand. And now you're talking about things they want to talk about. Racist. I've got black friends. And now you're not even talking about the issue at hand. And now you're talking about things they want to talk about. Racist. I've got black friends. And now you're not even talking about the issue at hand. I watched it happen during the final couple of years of Trump's presidency, when he would give an interview. And every time the reporter would have Trump denouncing white

supremacy, 18 minutes every single hour. Well, yes, I denounce white supremacy. Do you denounce it? Yes, I denounce it. Playing their game on their field with their refs enforcing their rules. And we wonder why we lose the messaging battle, the race misogyny, all that crap, anti-gay stuff, all that stuff's just a shield they use to shut you up. We have to stop letting it work. You are so right. Oh, my God. What you said is so right. And I'll give you an example today of it in our current presidential politics. Nikki Haley was asked over the Christmas break by. Yes, it was obviously a Democrat plant. What started the Civil War, which she didn't answer? Well, she did not mention slavery. But who the fuck is sorry, is is talking in 2024 presidential race about, gee, what led to the civil war? Is that an issue?

We're worried about the border. We're worried about the economy. No one's worried about what started the civil war right now. So this is the Democrats launching a bomb into the campaign of someone they perceive as a threat because the polls show she would beat Joe Biden by 11 points. Trump is beating Joe Biden by some four to six points. She would beat him by 11. So they're terrified that she would get it. She's not looking like she's going to get it, let's be honest. But it'd be very helpful to have her kneecapped. So she gets asked this question. She doesn't answer it well. And now here's the follow up on a CNN town hall that happened last night. And the CNN moderator throws the bomb back in her face again. And in answering it, she makes yet another misstep, which then Van Jones and Abby Phillips on CNN freak out on Nikki Haley about again when the town hall ends. Listen to Sat 10.

I should have said slavery right off the bat. But if you grow up in South Carolina, literally in second and third grade, you learn about slavery. You grow up and you have, you know, I had black friends growing up. It is a very talked about thing. I was over, I was thinking past slavery and talking about the lesson that we would learn going forward. I shouldn't have done that. Okay. Wait, before I get you to respond, I love it. You're laughing. Wait, here's Van Jones after the fact. She would clean it up with a dirty rag. I mean, it wasn't a cleanup at all. It's painful.

I don't get it. I think it says something about her. I think it says something about the Republican base. It's literally what you just said. On my life, Megan, I had not seen that clip before I said it, but they all do it. I had on my life, Megan, I had not seen that clip before I said it, but they all do it. I had black friends. See, I want everyone to understand because normal people will run into this.

It's not just Nikki Haley with your liberal aunt Peggy when she shows up at the Christmas party screaming about her 15th abortion. You're going to run into this with her as well. When they sit down with you, when they talk about the Civil War, what about the Confederacy? What about Nazis? They're trying to associate a term with you. They're trying to marry that term to you. They do this all the time, masterfully. And offense, you want to play offense against these people. All the GOP does is know how to play defense. Well, I have black friends. Offense is,

are you a Nazi? Yeah. Are you a pedophile? Now that's a horrible thing to say, right? That's a horrible thing to say, right? That's a horrible thing to say to somebody. Is it not? Well, is it not horrible to associate me with Nazism? If we're going to associate words that have nothing to do with me and you're going to try to attach them to me, then I'm going to attach them back. I'm going to attach horrible words back to you. Jesse, do you denounce white supremacy? Do you denounce pedophilia? Are you pro-pedophilia? Prove that you're against pedophilia right now. That's actual offense in changing the conversation. But the GOP is so scared of its own shadow, so scared of the media, so scared of how they're going to be framed.

They actually get themselves talking about the civil war at all, Megan, as if Van Jones or any of those boobs on CNN actually have a single bit of emotional attachment to the Civil War. I'm a history freak. I love the Civil War. I'm not emotional about the whole thing. There's nothing you could say that would offend me about the Civil War because it was like 170 years ago or whatever it was. I don't do math very well. None of these people are emotional about it.

They're trying to attach something ugly to you. And all the GOP does is know how to meekly back up. It's I'm not racist. My black friends. It makes me want to vomit, honestly. I know. I distinctly remember it was after I don't know which controversy was one of the ridiculous controversies that the Media Matters crew was making up about me and allegedly being a racist. And a couple of my friends who happened to be black were like, should we go out and do a photo op together? And I was like, it's a hard no. We're good. No. But Nikki Haley just fell into the trap. And, you know, maybe she's too green. Maybe it hasn't been done to her enough. I have to give credit. You and I both ripped on the vague when he's deserved it in the past. But he nailed it this week is a very good week for him. When Dasha Burns of NBC got after him, First Washington Post came for him, which I'll get to in a second. But this just happened, I think, yesterday and it's gone viral today. Dasha Burns of NBC tried to turn him into a racist or like a racist adjacent because of his positions on various things. And truly, it was a masterclass in how

to handle this nonsense. Here it is in part. Do you believe punctuality is a vestige of white supremacy, Dasha? Look, because if you don't, then you have a disagreement about many people who are defining those terms or the written word or the use or the nuclear family. This is these aren't my words. These are the words of intellectual proponents from Ibram Kendi to the Iona Presley's to BLM that have said these are vestiges of white supremacy. So we can't have it both ways. We have to have an honest discussion. I'm not a straw man. You brought up Jussie Smollett as the best example of white supremacy. Jussie Smollett was the hottest thing in news in the back of a fake actual attack on him that we have to contend with. And yet and yet you have examples like the Buffalo shooter in New York just in 2022.

You have other examples. But you are also cherry picking when you bring up Jussie Smollett. I'll look at all the statistics. More black on black crime. If you really care about actual crime against black Americans, let's get to the root causes of it in the inner cities of this country. The Anti-Defamation League tracked a 38% increase in white supremacist propaganda last year. Who's tracking that? The Anti-Defamation League. Yeah, the ADL I don't think is a particularly credible source. I think the media did not hold the police accountable.

They would have been demanding that. Republicans are actually starting to gain ground, gain traction with the black community, with Latino voters. Do not worry that your rhetoric is pushing them away. There are folks to the contrary. I think we're going to bring black people into this movement. Who are concerned about your rhetoric? Well, you know what? I'm concerned about their corruption. Corruption is a debate that is being had. If I may, if I may just finish this, if I may finish my point, Dasha. To deal with racism. I think I will be better positioned. But you're denying that racism is a problem. I've never denied that racism or

probably we're getting close to the promised land that Martin Luther King envisioned. We're as darn close to it as we ever have been. And so what bothers the heck out of me is it's right when we're close to that promised land. Martin Luther King said that I may not get there with you and he didn't get there with us. But I think it desecrates the legacy of our civil rights movement, desecrates the legacy of Martin Luther King, that right when we get closest to the point of having racial equality and gender equality and even opportunities for people of minorities of many types, are we perfect? No. But are we as close as we've ever been? Yes, we have to then obsess over systemic racism, to then obsess over white guilt and otherwise. We're creating new waves of racism, Dasha, that we otherwise would

have avoided right when we're closest to having achieved what even the proponents of the civil rights movement would have dreamed of. Boom. That's how it's done right there. A plus plus. Pretty well done. And like I've said, I don't trust Vivek at all. I find him to be extremely untrustworthy and snake oily, but I want to make sure I give him all the credit in the world. He's become a chaos agent, which we need on the right that someone who's smart enough and charismatic enough to change the conversation and make these people look and feel stupid. And he gets all the credit in the world for that. I will push back on just one thing he said there, but it's not, it's a very minor

criticism. We're not as close as we've ever been to some kind of racial harmony. We were as close as we've ever been to some kind of racial harmony, probably in the 80s in this country, maybe even the 90s. And then the communists in this country decided they could use the civil rights thing to really blow the society up. That's what all this is about, Megan. That's what Dasha Burns really wants. She's not a journalist. She's an apparatchik. All this race stuff, the gay stuff, all this stuff, this is all about just blowing the country up. It's all about destruction. If tomorrow every single position of power was occupied by a black person in this country, they wouldn't slow down or back off for even a second because it has nothing to do with black

people or gay people or women or whatever it is. Everything's about destruction. When you understand it's all just about destruction. That's why they want to destroy the nuclear family. That's why they want to cut your kid's penis off. That's why they want the border wide open. It's not accidental. They're not misguided. They're not liberal. They're not slightly left. They're not progressives. These are evil, dirty, demonic communists who are out there to destroy everything. And they're being very successful at it at this point in time. What happened in that clip was just I mean, he saw her coming from a mile away and he's obviously way smarter than she is. She's like Dasha Burns. Pick somebody else. Try someone dumber because he's I mean, he's literally written the book on wokeness and what they're trying to do on the left, similar to what you

were just saying. And what one of the things that struck me was here she is clearly trying to perform for her leftist base over on NBC. And you can see the plaintiff whining, what about this? You raised Jussie Smollett. What about white supremacy and the anti-defamation league? And it's so nice to hear a politician who's done his homework, who knows that the ADL is a joke of an institution that only ever criticizes people on the right. Go Google what they've said about Tucker Carlson. I mean, they and by the way, they're completely mission strayed from where they originally began. They've started to sound a little bit more like a policing organization for anti-Semitic comments against Jews in the wake of the Israel attack. But really, their favorite cause for the past 10 years has just been anything a conservative says, anything a conservative says that's not woke. So good for Vivek for knowing that there's absolutely

no stock to be put into this group and shoving it back in her face, her whiny little unprofessional face. Dasha, you embarrassed yourself. I think you got shamed after your John Fetterman interview because you told the truth about what a mess he was in that particular sit down. And ever since you've been trying to make it up to your leftist base to prove you're one of them. Okay. Good luck in your future journalism career. Let me squeeze in a quick break and then we'll come back and we have so much more fun to do, Jesse Kelly.

It's wonderful having you here. Don't go away. More with my fellow Kelly coming up. What a funny and bright spot in the whole mess. Love to see Claudine Gay go. She did not deserve the position. She was an intellectual thief, so I have no empathy for her and her firing. She resigned. Sorry, let me correct that. She

resigned. Sure, Jan. Oh, I don't need to say it? Sure, Jan. Okay, anyway, is Al Sharpton, Jesse? Al Sharpton. I i mean is there a bigger race hustler in america decided to punish bill ackman the billionaire investor who's been pushing to get these three women who's abominable testimony on capitol hill got them in trouble to begin with uh he's outside of bill ackman's office with like the people he met on the subway that day, he got like no one. He's like, we are gonna storm Bill Ackman's building. Look at this. I could fall asleep in the middle

of this tapioca pudding fest. He's lost it. It's done. People like this guy don't have the power they used to. No, but that's all he knows, Megan. And Al Sharpton, I've always thought he was an odd character, a very odd character. One, he looked better when he was fat. You never see that, but he did. He looked a lot better when he was fat. He lost way too much weight. Now he looks

like a lollipop and it weirds me out every time I see the guy. And he's kind of lost the risk. He does. He does. He looks all shrunken in. Go get a donut or something like that. He looks terrible. That's one. Two, he's clinging to something that has worked for him. Only now it's kind of old and pathetic a little bit. Have you ever, I'm 42 now, so I'm getting older. Megan, you ever seen that guy get up and play pickup basketball? And you can tell he used to be okay when he was younger.

And now he's out of breath after one time up the court. And he just can't really do it anymore. It's kind of embarrassing. That's how sharp then when he shows up to all these civil rights protests now, like I get it now, that's all you've known. But go to the Caribbean with more tax money you didn't pay. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So but he can't get it. I mean, truly, he's out of magic acorns and you can see it, but he's still playing the same game. Now you have Ellie Mustall. He's a White House Acorns and you can see it, but he's still playing the same game. Now you have Ellie Mustall. He's a White House correspondent for The Nation. He's, listen to this racist stuff.

I mean, this guy, he's constantly on MSNBC. All of this is happening, Claudine Gay, because racist white folks had to chew with their mouths closed for two months after George Floyd was murdered. And now they're on their revenge arc. They'll keep roasting any black people they can get their hands on until they satiate their bloodlust, while people from apartheid states call for colorblind societies. There's never a solution for this.

Racist whites just do this whenever they feel their positions of power are threatened. The best advice I can give to any black person is hard to follow. So hard. I don't always do it myself. But the trick is to not ever rely on white folks for anything, because if you do, then that means they can take it from you the moment they get in their feelings, whatever that means. They can take it from you. Can you imagine if a white person tweeted anything like this about a person of color? Yeah, look, we joke a lot, Megan, you and I, and I'm glad we do. But this is one of the things that we really, we should talk about more. There's a dangerous situation happening in this country.

And history books say it's a dangerous situation. Whenever you take any group of people, whether it be a religion or happening in this country, and history books say it's a dangerous situation. Whenever you take any group of people, whether it be a religion or skin color or whatever, and you other them, they're the problem, they're the problem, they're the problem, they're the problem, and othering them becomes sanctioned at the highest levels. It's not, one dirt ball on the street corner. I hate white people. When you hear that kind of rhetoric from the president, from media figures, from academics, Harvard, all the others, when it is universal across the board, white people suck, white people suck, white people are evil. Kids learn about this in elementary school. They learn about white colonizers and all these things all over the country.

What you're doing is you're creating a very dangerous situation for white people in this country. And I know it's very hard to see this now because we live in the United States of America, but all it would take would be a nudge. And this can manifest itself in some really, really ugly, really violent ways. And it would be nice if one political party in this country had the balls to actually step up and start talking about it in honest ways. Not that I'm holding out for that at all. They're all going to still try to play the commie game. But it would be really nice if we could talk about the systemic racism that is taking place in this country. Again, racism is always bad. But if one guy on the street corner hates me for the color of my skin, OK, that sucks.

I just walk away. If it's sanctioned by the DOJ president, by academics, by everything else, sanctioned racism by the institutions of a nation is what ends up killing people. And there's an anti-white racism in this country that's despicable and should be talked about a lot more. Yes, this guy, Elie Mestal, has it in droves. He's a racist. He hates white people. Can you imagine sending out a tweet about black folks just pissed off they had to chew with their mouths closed for two months and talking about black bloodlust?

The blacks will keep roasting any white people they can get their hands on. I'm just reversing the races in what he put out, what he put in writing and posted and said the trick is, can you imagine it reversed again to not ever rely on black folks for anything because they can take it. My God, the hatred this guy has. And as I point out, he's White House correspondent for a major publication. He's all over MSNBC. He's on Joy Reid every night. How does this guy still have a job? It's unbelievable to me. He's all over MSNBC. He's on Joy Read every night. How does this guy still have a job? It's unbelievable to me. He's on MSNBC every other night. I left NBC because I talked about Halloween costumes. It's like, it's insane. And then he's like, they're out for the

blacks. That's the problem. Like, what are you saying? It's, it's completely backwards. The one comfort I have, Jesse, is that some people are talking about it now. So today, the beginning of 2024, unlike five years ago, even when like nobody was saying anything about this racism, you know, by people like Ellie Mistal. Now it's more understandable. Now they've been stewing in it for five plus years. And you see it at every corner. You see it everywhere. I think people have had it. And you're right. The question is, how much have they had it? And how much more are we going to allow this to go on? Because it's stirring up terrible racial tensions. It is. And people don't know how to push back on it, Megan, because most people are not racist. It's certainly not most people on the right. There's not racist. I mean, are there some? Of course, there's some everywhere. That's human nature. But most people are not. And so when it happens to them, they're really tempted to just kind of shrivel up or ignore it or they don't want to talk about it because our social shame system is so upside down

in this country. You're not allowed to push back on that. But people have to start getting a lot more vocal about naming this and attacking these people. Because again, I can't stress this enough. You just pointed out, this is not some random dude sitting in his mom's apartment putting out something stupid on social media. This stuff has been institutionalized at the highest levels. The head of the DHS, CIA, FBI, presidents, Harvard presidents, people and everyone in between, they openly talk about this stuff now. White people suck, white this, white that. And that is dangerous.

And I wish, I really wish there was a much bigger movement pushing back against it. But that's what communism does, Megan. You and I have talked about this before that I talk about. You were talking about Montana. We used to go hiking in Montana and you'd see eventually these huge boulders bigger than a car and you go hiking and you'd find one that had been split in two or split in three places. And you're thinking to yourself, was it God himself that came down with an ax? What could possibly have split this? What split it was, over time, rocks like societies develop cracks.

Those cracks eventually get water in them. And then it's Montana. The freeze comes, the water expands, the boulder, boom, splits in two. Communism is the water. That's what it is in any society. And that's exactly what these people are. They're just destroyers. We were on the way to having a relatively harmonious society a few decades ago. And now everyone is more racist than ever. The black people are the white people are

Mexicans are to everyone else because of this. That's what they do. They dig in and they split us all apart from each other. It's really gross, but people are scared to discuss it because no one wants to be called a racist. It's unbelievable. To correct myself, he's the justice correspondent for the nation. This is him in 2021. Same guy, 2021. He wrote a piece in The Nation. I am not ready to reenter white society after the pandemic. Couple highlights. As the pandemic wanes and I have to leave the safety of my whiteness-free castle, I know that racism is going to come roaring back into my daily life. Over the past year, I have, of course, still had to interact with white people on Zoom or watch them on television or worry about whether they would succeed in re-electing a

white supremacist president. But white people aren't in my face all the time. I can more or less only deal with whiteness when I want to. White people haven't improved. I've just been able to limit my exposure to them. This man is gainfully employed and appearing on MSNBC every other night. I don't even know what to say. Our media is disgusting. The double standard on racism is disgusting. And while we may not be able to defeat it, we can

certainly call it out. OK, before I move on from the clotting gay thing, I do think it's interesting. Speaking of the disgusting media now, they're doing hit pieces on Bill Ackman's wife. I mentioned Bill Ackman, the billionaire who's been fighting back against anti-Semitism and led the charge to get rid of Liz McGill and now Claudine Gay. And now I was looking at the MIT lady. Business Insider comes out with a hit piece on his wife, who used to be at MIT and I think did her PhD at MIT and went back and dissected her dissertation and found some paragraphs that they say should have had quotations around. Like she did cite the author, you know, but she didn't put the quotes on right before, like she said, you know, X, Y, and Z, period. See, Jesse Kelly, I'm right. But she didn't actually put the quotation marks in there.

So this is the game they play, right? Like, take that, Bill Ackman. We'll humiliate your wife if you stay on this tear. Yeah, they understand. I'll give the communists credit for this. They understand how powerful social shame is. I call it the social shame system. But they understand they create these organizations, the ADL, like you were talking about earlier. They'll work for this publication. They'll take over this publication. And what they do is they whip up mobs that intimidate good people from coming out. That's really what they want. They want you on their side. But if you're not on their side, they at least want you to shut up and be afraid. And this is why they do the things they do. You got this dude, Ackman, he speaks up. They're going after his wife. Why do they do that? One, to shut him up. But two, so

the next billionaire doesn't get quite so out about that because he doesn't want a new hit piece in the New York Times or whatever, ADL, whatever it may be. They're very good at social shame. They're very good at making you feel like the heat of a thousand suns is on you. So you'll shut up and go away. And if you let them, they will win. And this is not abnormal. This is what the commies have always done everywhere. They used to stand in front of your business in Mao's China and scream at anybody

who came inside of your shop because you were one of the bad people. It's a social shame system. You didn't want to be marked as the person who was walking in to buy wontons from Jim because you were one of the bad ones. And so eventually people stopped going and you had to leave the country. You went out of business.

They do the exact same thing in this country with the various little lefty organizations. And as you know, Megan, lots of these organizations are nonprofits. Our nonprofit industry is flat out criminal in this country. So much of these nonprofits are funded because you're not allowed to know who the donors are by these big commie billionaires. And they do blatantly political things, very nonpartisan report on why Megyn Kelly is an evil misogynist and a racist. And they'll put these things out there. And then the other parts of society will cite the nonprofit as it's somehow legitimate. Well, you see Joe Biden got up and he said the ADL said Megyn Kelly's a racist. You see, that's an official organization.

That's how they work. And it's it's very effective, to be honest with you. Yeah, they've been working very hard to do this to Tucker Carlson for quite some time, like completely diminished this raging racist misogynist, put him on the front page of The New York Times, all in an effort to discredit. That's why the ADL got involved in Tucker Carlson's alleged misogyny and racism is supposed to be an anti in any way. OK, I got to end with this good news. Good news out of New Hampshire, which I have to say makes me feel very happy because it's I know it's not exactly a deep red state. And here the New

Hampshire House has voted for sanity, saying we approve a ban on these gender reassignment procedures for minors. How did they do it? They got 12 Democrats, 12. That's not a small amount to cross the aisle. Two Republicans abandoned, but they got 12 Dems to vote in favor of the band. Here is one of the heroes. Didn't go as far as I would have liked. I would have liked puberty blockers into cross-sex hormones band because it sterilizes kids. But I'll take what I can get for now. Take a listen to Representative Jonah Wheeler, Democrat, on why he did it. Rise today, despite the uncomfortability of this vote because for me it comes down to whether or not kids should be able to get these surgeries and despite the fact that I am a liberal despite the fact that

I believe in non-discrimination for trans people for gay people for queer people and that I will fight until my very last day until they are recognized as human beings. The question before us is whether or not children under the age of 18 should be able to get these surgeries. And they should not. These are irreversible surgeries. God bless him. I honestly feel like divine intervention went into New Hampshire last night and made this happen. This can't keep happening to children.

No, it is a step in the right direction, Megan. And so I don't want to be a king cynic here. It is a step in the right direction. And I applaud them for doing it. I applaud those Democrats because that takes guts. They're going to take a lot of heat now. At the same time, I will just say just to close out with this, we are in a lot of trouble as a society because these bans are even something that has to happen. I'm all about the bans, right? That's great. But you shouldn't have to ban doctors from cutting off a 13-year-old girl's breasts. That's not a thing that should ever have to come up before the law, because it should never occur to a doctor to do that. And even if it did occur to one of them to do that, he should be so afraid of society

that he wouldn't do it. So I'm glad we have these bans. I hope we keep banning them. But it goes to show we don't have a politician problem. We have a people problem, like I talk about on my show all the time. By the way, the Jesse Kelly Show podcast, go subscribe to it, everybody. Yes, all Kelly shows are very entertaining. I think you'll really enjoy my brother Jesse's program. He's just a brother in ideology and sense, not blood brother, but maybe somehow, you know, you never know. We went back and traced our roots. Maybe one day we'll do it. Yes, I do feel like sanity prevailed there, but you're absolutely right. The fact that it's a problem to begin with. And if you look at, I'll see it, I'll just say in the couple seconds we

have left, it's already like the problem starting to percolate up. I'm sorry to say. And when it comes to pedophilia and the attempt to normalize, quote, minor attracted men, it's always men. Yeah, it's happening in some corners of the left. There was a publication on Vice yesterday that was raising, oh, they're pushing, you know, like the pedophilia, the crazy right in response to Jeffrey Epstein. Okay. No, he actually was accused of wanting underage girls and having them. So there should be no normalization of it. There should only be people who call it out and anybody who deigns to actually do it should be ostracized and in that

case, locked up. Jesse Kelly, you're the best. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Megan. Appreciate you. All right. Next up, crazy, crazy spying on you glasses. Don't go away. Are you ready for something scary? I've been wanting to talk to this woman for a long time. We are hearing a lot these days about artificial intelligence, of course, or AI, but here's one way it's already changing our lives, even if you don't know it. There's one good piece of it, and there's one potentially very disturbing piece of it, at least. Joining me now to explain what I'm talking about is New York Times journalist Kashmir Hill. She specializes in, quote, looming tech dystopia,

how about that for an area of expertise, and is the author of the national bestseller, Your Face Belongs to Us, a secretive startup's quest to end privacy as we know it. It is the riveting story of a small AI company that advanced facial recognition technology and in the process may have ended privacy. Yours and mine, as we know it. Kashmir, welcome to the show. Great to have you. Hi, Megan. Thanks for having me. Okay. So first of all, your name is based on a Led Zeppelin song. That's amazing. It is. My parents named me after Kashmir. Yes, it's unique. Good for them. I talked to Crystal Ball when she first became a public person and I was like, what's the deal with your name?

And her dad was like some sort of, he was a nuclear physicist or an astrologist. I can't remember something like that. He was just obsessed with the skies and that's where her name came from. Okay. So this, this is a great book because it's got something for everyone, Kashmir. It's like, I think the left is generally not to reduce everything to politics, but I think the left is generally concerned about AI and like where it's going. And I know the right is very concerned about giving government more power to spy on us and not just government, but even third party agencies or anybody. And I, for me, it's, it's most, it's interesting for both of those reasons, but it's also

interesting because I really do care about like women who are the victims of domestic violence or stalkers, which has happened to me. And like the number of things you have to go through in order to protect yourself. And look, let's face it, I've got some money so I can do that with relative ease these days. But most women who are subjected to domestic violence or stalkers have no money. And just the hoops that they have to jump through to try to protect themselves are already too great. And this technology that you wrote about doesn't work to their advantage at all. Okay. So that's the setup. So tell us just how you sort of got started on this. Cause I know, I think you were in my friend, Meryl Gordon's journalism class, right? Yes, I was. Yeah. How far back do you want to get started here?

Well, no, because I mean, like you, I'm just curious, what made this your beat once you got into journalism? Yeah. So journalism for me was kind of a second career. I had worked at a law firm as a paralegal. I'd worked at a nonprofit. And I was in my late 20s when I started on the journalism journal journey and was in Meryl Gordon's class at NYU and was thinking about, you know, what should my beat be? What do I want to do in journalism? And at the same time, I was thinking about how invasive the practice of journalism is, that you're writing about people who sometimes don't want to be written about. You're determining a reputation. It was around 2008. The iPhone had just come out. Everybody was getting onto Facebook. And I just was thinking a lot about what privacy was in the modern age with all of this new technology. And so at NYU, I pitched a beat called The Not So Private Parts about this kind of intersection or collision of tech and privacy. And it was supposed to be a year-long project, but it's what I've been writing about in the decade plus since.

Your most recent piece I saw was about how our cars are spying on us and are being used in some circumstances by when people get a divorce. If one spouse is the registered owner, he or she can spy on the spouse who may get the car in the separation agreement. And there's very little you can do about it. Yeah. I mean, the world that we live in now is just so difficult in so many ways because all these objects are internet connected, things in your home, your TV, your coffee pot maybe, and cars now are collecting a lot of data. It's concerning because most people don't understand how much information is being collected, where it goes, how it's being used. And this particular issue I was writing about in this story is that many modern cars have apps that you can use to see where they are, to unlock them, to make the horn honk. They're convenient features when, you know, you park somewhere in the parking lot and

you can't remember where. But I was talking to domestic violence experts who say that these convenient features are being weaponized in kind of abusive relationships. And women, it was only women I talked to, separating from husbands and finding that their husbands were tracking where they were going by firing up the car app and looking at where the car was, even harassing them by making the horn honk and making the lights turn on, making the car start in the middle of the night in their garage. And they would contact the car manufacturer and say, hey, stop giving my husband, my ex-husband, access to the car. And the car manufacturers just were not able to help them, they said, because the car was also in the husband's name, or maybe only in the husband's name, even though the woman had a protective order or had been awarded the car during divorce

proceedings. It's amazing when you look around, and I'm going to get to the book and what you revealed about this company, what they're making, their product. But it is amazing when you look around you and realize how much of your privacy you've already sacrificed to live in the modern world. We know that Facebook and the social media companies are tracking everything about us. And even now, like when you try to opt out of cookies or anything like that, it's so hard. They make you jump through so many things and your email address gets sold to so many companies. And every day you get a new email from a new, you didn't ask for, and then to unsubscribe, you know, like they want you to enter your email to unsubscribe.

You're like, wait a minute. Is this a dummy account? And what am I, who am I doing a relationship with now? There's just, I complained on the show a couple months ago about, I was trying to buy a coat in Chicago. And the woman was like, what's your email address? I'm like, why do you need to know that? Just give me my, here's my credit card. It works. Give me that and give me the receipt. Nope. Need your email address. We had an argument, you know, just at every turn. Even we have Life360 on our phones, right? So like you can see your kids now that two of my kids have phones. Well, Doug and I went on it. Okay, fine. They can see where I am on Life360. Did you know if you press something on Life360,

you can go back and see every single spot you've visited over the last 30 days at least. It's all right there, like your entire life. It's very disconcerting the amount of privacy we've already sacrificed. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of benefits, right, that have come from the way that we live today. The fact that with our smartphones, you can land anywhere in the world and you can call an Uber, you know, you can figure out which restaurants to eat at. Technology has benefited us in many ways, but increasingly, there's this kind of constant, you know, background data collection. And it's not always being used in ways that benefit us. You know, there's these apps on your phones.

They have third party, you know, ad networks that are keeping track of where you're going and creating that same kind of list of places you've been that you've seen created by Life360 in an app that you have chosen to use. And so that's what I kind of try to track in my journalism is, you know, what is happening? You know, where, how is the data being collected? Who is using it? And when is it being used in ways that really harm you? Because that's what I get concerned about is, you know, what's the harm here?

How is this coming back to haunt people? And how can we prevent those kinds of uses of the technology? So that's the perfect setup for Clearview AI, this company that you found out about and wrote an article about, wrote a book about, and really they've given you a lot of access. So they tried to prevent it at first, but ultimately they submitted because they realized it's not great to not cooperate with the New York Times when they're doing an in-depth piece on you. And this company is emblematic of everything we just discussed. They're doing some stuff that is great, that most people would say, right on, go get them. We need a lot more just like this.

But this has the potential to, and is most likely going to veer into a lane that many of us would find very disturbing. So let's start with your initial encounter with this company and what kind of turned you on to them and their initial stiff arming of you. Yeah. So it started for me in the fall of 2019. I had just become a reporter at the New York Times, and I got a tip from a source, somebody I knew from the privacy security Department. And it included a legal memo written by Paul Clement, a very high profile lawyer now in private practice, but used to be Solicitor General for George W. Bush. Exactly. And he was describing this tool called Clearview, how it had, I think, billions of photos at that point that had been scraped from the internet, you know, without anyone's consent to build this facial recognition tool

where you could take a photo of somebody, a stranger, upload it to the app, and it would return all the other places on the internet where their photo appeared, revealing, you know, their name, their social media profiles, maybe details about their life, maybe photos they didn't even know were on the internet. He said he had tested it with, you know, lawyers at his firm. It returned very fast and accurate results. And, you know, it had scraped Facebook, Instagram, Venmo, LinkedIn, you know, basically all your favorite social media sites, as well as kind of the wider web. And he had written this legal memo for police departments who might be interested in using it to reassure them that they could use the app without violating any state or federal privacy laws. And I am reading this and I am just astounded. I mean, I've been covering

privacy at that point for more than 10 years, and I had never heard of the kind of technology that could do this. And it was being offered by this company I had never heard of before called Clearview AI. And the more I started looking into them, the stranger it got. So just as an overarching theme, they're using what you refer to as one's face print. People are familiar with fingerprints and generally would be reluctant to place their fingerprints online as a record associated with them. You know, you wouldn't want that out there. They're familiar with an iris scan, also seems very intrusive. But a face print is also existent on every person. And while, yes, your face can be seen in various photos, your face print would be much more widely and easily detected by this technology. And it will collect photos of you that you didn't even know existed. Half photos, three quarter photos.

You're in the background on something, not even posing. It's extremely sophisticated and good at what it does. And you make the point in the book that the people who put this company together, they're not some geniuses, that this has been considered and rejected by all the big, basically, tech companies who are already out there collecting our data, but this was a bridge too far for all of them.

Yeah. I mean, when I first started looking into Clearview AI, there was very little out there about them. They'd kind of taken pains to hide who was behind the company, which was ironic given they were putting all this information out there about all of us. I reached out to them. I reached out to Paul Clement. I reached out to anyone I could find kind of attached to the company and no one would respond to me. So I thought, well, maybe I can, I can, I even actually had an address on their website and it was only a couple blocks away from the New York Times office in Manhattan. And I walked over there and discovered that there was no such address. I was kind of looking for it. I compare it in the book to Harry Potter.

It says like looking for a platform that wasn't there. So they were very secretive when I first discovered them. And so I went to police officers who I thought had used the app based on it kind of showing up on budgets or because they were appearing in these public records requests. And I ended up talking to a financial crimes detective in Gainesville, Florida named Nick Ferrara. And he was telling me, wow, I love Clearview AI. I would be their spokesman if I could. The tool works so well.

It's way more powerful than anything I've ever used before. He said that he had a pile of unsolved cases on his desk. He'd run them through the state recognition, facial recognition system in Florida, not gotten any matches. And so run them through Clearview AI. And he said, I got match after match after match. He said it was really incredible. And so I said, well, this sounds great. I'd love to see how it works. And he said, well, send me your photo and then I'll screenshot the results for you and send them your way. So I sent them, I sent him my

photo and then he ghosted me and he stopped responding to any of my messages. This basically happened again with another officer, though, before he stopped talking to me, he did run my photo and he said I didn't have any results, which we both thought was very strange because I have a lot of photos on the internet. Eventually, I'd find out that Clearview AI had put an alert on my face so that they were being notified when I was being searched for. They were reaching out to these officers and saying, you know, don't talk to her. You're violating the terms of our app by running her picture. And so this was alarming to me because it showed me that this

company could, you know, see who law enforcement was searching for, could control whether they could be found. And it just shows the power of facial recognition technology, this idea that you can be searched for. There can be an alert on your face and people might be reacting to you and you might not even realize it. And we kind of have seen that play out at Madison Square Garden where James Dolan, the owner of Madison Square Garden, decided to start looking for, he decided he wanted to ban certain people from coming into his venues. Lawyers who worked on, who had sued Madison Square Garden or any of their other companies. And so they went to their law firm websites and scraped their photos from their own biographies

on their websites and created this big ban list. And when those lawyers tried to go to Madison Square Garden to see a Knicks game or the Rockettes at Radio City Music Hall or Mariah Carey concert, they would be stopped at the door and turned away and told you're not welcome here until your firm drops this suit or settles this suit where the suit comes to an end. And so it just shows you how powerful this technology could be in the hands of corporations, for example, companies who want to know who you are the minute you're walking through the door. Yes, it's like, I mean, you think about, like, you could go either way with it. But, you know, after January 6th, all the proposed bans on anybody associated, not just with the protesters, the rioters, but with team Trump.

Like anybody with the last name Trump, anybody who's on the Trump team or the administration, all banned. Publishers were saying, no books by you. Imagine that expanded to, you can't come in here for coffee. You can't come in here to watch a Knicks game. It could go so far beyond that. And at least, at least, um, in the example I just raised, it would require a name and the person would have had to have asked for something and submitted a record. This is who I am. And this is what I'm at. It's not just like walking in for a cup of coffee, like doing the things we do for a, to, to exist. And just your mere face, your face print tells them so much about you. It's like making yourself instantly famous, basically. And you don't want to be famous.

You want to be a private civilian. I do always feel funny talking about this topic with somebody like you who, you know, the ship has sailed for you. Most places where you go around, they know that you're Megyn Kelly. But the rest of us still have a certain degree of anonymity as we move through the world. And I do my big fear with facial recognition technology is that it brings an end to that and that it takes all the information that over the last couple of decades that we've been online, that we've been putting information out there about ourselves, that it's been collected without our knowing it. There's all these dossiers now that basically exist for all of us, that that could just be attached to us in the real world, that our face becomes the token to be able to access all of this information about you all of the time.

And it can be used to judge you in ways. Yeah. I mean, whether you're a liberal or you're conservative or you're rich or you're poor or, um, who you work for. These guys who started this firm, they're more right-leaning. They, I guess if you had to put money on who they would want to use it against, if they really went nefarious, it would be against liberals because they're like one of the big investors is Peter Thiel, who is a conservative investor. And the other guys, as I understand, they met at the Trump convention in 2016, the Republican National Committee. Like these are more right leaners. Yeah, they met. They met before the Trump convention.

But apparently the kind of idea for Clearview first came about when they were at the Trump convention. They were thinking, wow, there's all these strangers here. You don't know who anyone is. Wouldn't it be nice if you had some kind of tool, an app on your phone where you just kind of pointed it at somebody and it told you, give you an indication, you know, who this is. Are they a friend? Are they a foe? Are they somebody I should get to know? So even in the beginning of this company, they were thinking about this kind of this, this use and this kind of more polarized world, you know, who's on my side, who's not on my side. Yeah. I mean, it's very, it's, it's very scary. It could be used against everyone depending on whose hands it would fall into. And let's not kid ourselves.

That's the concern. It's that this Clearview AI will not be the only company using it. It's going to be widespread. And there's a real question about whether it can be stopped at all. This really could be our future in 10 years. Everyone might have it. And truly, privacy may be a thing of the past. I think one of the executives said that to you.

Like, it's over, Kashmir. there is no privacy that those days are over. Yeah. I mean, one of that was one of the investors in Clearview AI. I said, when he, when I first started tracking down the company and I went to his door and he ended up letting me in, in part because I was quite pregnant at the time. And I said, Oh, you know, I've come all this way, offered me water. We sat down and he was talking about how excited he was about Clearview AI as an investment that he believes he hoped in the future that the same way you Google someone's name, you would Clearview someone's face. And he said, you know, right now Clearview is just selling it to police departments. But his hope was that they would start selling it to everybody, that it would be an app on

everybody's smartphone. And I said, you know, that seems kind of alarming to me, this idea that we wouldn't have the right to be anonymous anymore. And he said, yeah, I realize it's dystopian, but I just think that's the nature of technology, that it's, you know, it's eroding privacy and there's nothing we can do about it. And, you know, I think tech companies are selling these kinds of tools. That's what they want people to believe, you know, give up. There's no hope for your privacy, just accept this. But I think that we still can protect it. And there are examples in the past of times that we've done that. So I remain optimistic that we might still preserve a bit of our anonymity.

Well, and you've got the one state of Illinois, which is like the one state that's done something to protect its citizens from this kind of technology. We can talk about that in a minute, but let's just spend a minute on, so finally they did, you were pregnant and you, you did what a good reporter will do, which is somehow got yourself in the door. And eventually they started talking to you. And there's a very interesting guy behind the technology. What's his name? Tom? Juan Tontat. Juan Tontat. Okay. Who is Juan Tontat? Juan Tontat is the kind of technical mastermind behind Clearview AI. He grew up in Australia, was always really interested in computers, technology.

At 19 years old, he drops out of college in Canberra, Australia, and he moves halfway around the world to San Francisco, kind of chasing the tech dream. And he at first was creating Facebook quizzes and iPhone games and not really having a lot of success. And eventually he ends up moving to New York, kind of falling in with this more right-leaning crowd. And then he goes and creates this incredibly powerful technology, Clearview AI. And I kind of, you know, at first the company did not want to talk to me. Eventually they came around and I've actually spent a lot of time with Juan Tontad, a really interesting character. And I asked him, you know, how did you go from building iPhone games to this incredibly

powerful, you know, potentially world-changing technology? And he said, I was standing on the shoulders of giants. He said at the beginning, he just went on to Twitter and followed machine learning experts. He went on to GitHub, this kind of place where computer scientists share code, and he looked up facial recognition. And we both started laughing when he's telling me this. He said, I realize it sounds like I Googled a flying car and then I built one. But this kind of Clearview's journey, Wonton Tatch journey really reveals what has happened in technology, which is that there

has been a lot of sharing and open sourcing of these AI tools. And it allowed him and kind of like a ragtag band of people to create a really, really powerful technology. And at first I thought that Clearview had had this kind of technological breakthrough to create this tool. But in my reporting for the book, I discovered that as you were saying before, Facebook and Google had both created technology like this internally and decided not to release it because they thought it was too dangerous. And so what Clearview had done was more of an ethical breakthrough than a technological one. Ethical breakthrough, that's a nice way of putting it. A disregard, perhaps. But again, I'm not against the company. I love what they're doing in law enforcement. The scary thing is when

it goes beyond that. So let's spend a minute on what they are doing for law enforcement, because when I get to the stories about them nailing pedophiles. I'm cheering on my feet and they are, they are using this and have, have found pedophiles through some incredible detections of, as I was kind of saying, not even people who are front and center in various photographs. Yeah. I talked to a department of Homeland Security agent who this was actually the first time that the Department of Homeland Security used Clearview. He had this case where they had come across an image of abuse in the in a in a Yahoo account of somebody who is based outside of the country. And he had the photos and he's he and he's thinking, what do I do? How do I solve this case? And so he sent a, he ended up running the, he did a screenshot of the

abuser's face and he sent it to other child crime investigators. And he said, hey, does anyone else recognize this person? Have you seen them in other photos? They knew it was somewhere in the U S because of an electrical outlet. They could see it was a U S outlet. So they knew it was somewhere in the United States. And there was another agent who had access to clear view at that time. And so she ran the photo and sent him one of the results, which was an Instagram photo. And when he first looked at it, he didn't see the abuser's face. He said, oh, he's not here. And the other agent told him, look in the background. And in the background of this Instagram photo is this guy standing at a booth. And that wound up being the person. And so this investigator followed these breadcrumbs, figured out where he worked,

figured out who he was, figured out where he lived in Las Vegas. And they wound up arresting him. He's in jail now, you know, getting this child out of his access. And the Department of Homeland Security, ICE, it was the unit he was part of, they said, we have to have this tool. And they wound up signing up for it. And so Department of Homeland Security now does have this contract with Clearview that they've had for a few years now. And he said, you know, we just never would have found that guy without this technology. So you

can see why this is so appealing to law enforcement. You know, when you only have a face to go on, this is something that could help you solve that case. So this is like a guy who wasn't necessarily even posing for not the illegal photo, but the other photos happened to be caught in the background of someone's photo that's available on the internet or on Facebook or in someplace where Clearview searches. And he made the mistake of having a picture of him committing this disgusting sin and crime in a picture that was on his email or however law enforcement got its hands on it to begin with. And they matched it just from the back, him being in

the background of a, I mean, that's amazing that what you point out in the book, and it kind of got me thinking about it though, is on the privacy front there, even with law enforcement, they're doing something that is, you know, a little disconcerting, which is you and I are potentially in that photo lineup, right? Like our face print, maybe not us because we're females, but I'm just saying in general, maybe all American men were in that photo lineup without really consenting to be in the photo lineup with their quote, face print. Right. I mean, Clearview AI says that they now have 40 billion photos in their databank. And so I know, I know for a fact that you and I are in that, you know, in that database. And so every time somebody does run a Clearview search,

they are searching all of those photos. They are searching through all of our faces, essentially, for a match. And so that worries some constitutional experts. They say, hey, you know, I think if the United States government built this, you know, we would probably be fighting back. This seems almost unconstitutional, you know, that we're all part of every search that's being run through this tool. And it can go wrong. You know, there have been a handful of cases now where people have been arrested for the crime of looking like someone else, because we're not all unique snowflakes. Some of us look similar to other people. And so there is this concern that if you act on the facial recognition

search alone, you might end up arresting the wrong person beyond that bigger. I'd imagine they require more than that, right? It can't just be only clear view recognition. So hopefully, ideally, if the police are doing it right, it won't just be clear view identification. But I have written about cases where they have arrested people based on not much more evidence than that. A guy who was arrested in Atlanta for shoplifting, essentially, purses in and around New Orleans. And he was arrested. The police, he's like, why am I being arrested? He got pulled over. Why am I being arrested? And they said, oh, for larceny in Jefferson Parish. He said,

where's Jefferson Parish? They said, it's in Louisiana. He said, I've never been to Louisiana. But he ended up getting arrested and spending a week in jail before they realized they had the wrong person. He did look a lot like the offender. And they had done a clear view search. He'd come up as a match. And when the police looked at his Facebook profile, they saw that he had a lot of friends in New Orleans. So based on very little information, I mean, not enough.

No one should be arrested based on that. He had been arrested. And so sometimes these things do go wrong because of confirmation bias, automation bias, where the police just rely too heavily on this high tech tool, which does seem so amazing and often is so amazing. I like how accurate is it then? Because, you know, I've told the audience before, you know, of all the weird conspiracy theories that are out there and there's, there are plenty of weird ones. One of the weird ones that's out there is that I am Nicole Brown Simpson, like either reincarnated or she never died. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but

somehow we're the same person. So truly like what about two people who look very similar in certain of their features? Is Clearview generally very good at distinguishing between two similar looking people or not so good? Well, so there is a federal lab called the National Institute for Standards and Technology, or NIST, that tests all the facial recognition algorithms or runs these tests periodically. And a lot of these algorithms now are incredibly accurate, like they're 99% accurate, but it does depend on the quality of the image that you run. Is it a grainy, still from a surveillance tape? It might not work as well under those circumstances.

Anecdotally, I have seen it work as well under those circumstances. Anecdotally, you know, I have seen it work quite well when Juan Tontat has run Clearview searches on my own face. There are no doppelgangers who come back. It is me. It's photos that I put out there. It's me at concerts in 2005 in the background of other people's photos. Really? Yes. There was a photo of me in the background of someone else's. It was, well, there was a woman in the background of someone's photo walking by. And at first I didn't think it was me until I recognized my coat that I had bought at a vintage store in Tokyo. It was so unique. It had to be me. I mean, it is, Juan Tontat said, it's a time machine. I invented it. And it really is. It's, I mean, it was, it was incredible. I mean, it is Juan Tontat said it's a time machine. I invented it. And it really is. It's

I mean, it was it was incredible. I was able to connect my face to me, you know, in profile in 2003, four. I mean, it's it's it's kind of astounding how well it can work under the right conditions. Oh, my gosh. All right. So that's one thing. I mean, maybe people out there are feeling less safe than I am, knowing that it's in the hands of law enforcement right now across the country. Many law enforcement divisions already have this on you. I'm still my my default is generally to be trustworthy of law enforcement. I have a cop in the family.

I don't know that. But I feel very less, very much less secure when it comes to private citizens having this stuff, because it's not even just like Megyn Kelly. Okay. Anybody can Google that and see Cashmere Hill. What comes up about Cashmere? It's so much more. Like you say, it's like private photos that you had no idea. Maybe whatever. Maybe you went to some march at one point. Who knows what you did or when you were a stupid kid that now private citizens are your enemies know about and could use against you. Or like the thing I worry about is the freaks out there, people who are crazy, who just want information on you that you would never voluntarily

give. Now they've got it. And maybe even they have photos. Like, like for example, in my case, I don't publish any of my addresses for very obvious reasons, but what if my neighbor was out playing football with their kids on the front lawn and I got caught in the background of one, you know, now am I going to have to run out there and be like, give me that photo, you know, delete that photograph, right? That you can't do that, but I could be there and I could be in front of my house and now it's identifiable, like all this stuff. So let me take a quick break and we're going to pick it up there and talk about that risk and the glasses, which is what got my attention to this whole case

to begin with. More with Kashmir Hill right after this. I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today. You can catch The Megan Kelly Show on Triumph, a Sirius XM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megan Kelly. You can stream The Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time.

I love the Sirius XM app. It has ad-free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast, and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free. Go to SiriusXM.com slash MKShow to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com slash MKShow and get three months free. Offer details apply.

Now, I've been thinking about this, including yesterday we had on Nancy Grace and we were talking about the Brian Kohlberger, Idaho murders case. And I want to play you this clip because it relates to some of this technology potentially, where she was stating here her suspicions. She made it clear this is her view about Brian Kohlberger and who he is and then offered some facts about what we know about some of his past interactions with women. Listen to this soundbite. And you know another thing which is not going to get brought up at trial, I guarantee you, because the defense is going to argue it's too incendiary and prejudicial, blah, blah, blah. And so the theory that Brian Koberger is in fact an incel, involuntary celibate and hates women because he can't be with women. And remember, he was also banned from a bar because he would go up to women and say things like, what's your home address? I would run for

the hills as if I had seen a monster. If some creepy dude comes up to me in a bar and says, what's your home address, lady? Uh-uh, N-O. He had to get thrown out of that bar. So if that happens to you in today's day and age, and you're not a public figure, right, like I am, you're usually fine because the person doesn't know your name. They can't Google you. And you do have to spend some money and make some effort to find somebody's address, even a private citizen today, but it's you do have to spend some money and make some effort to find somebody's address, even a private citizen today. But it's knowable. I mean, let me tell you, people, if you've gone down to the DMV and given them your real address, like most people do when they go to the DMV because you register to vote and all that, it's findable on the Internet for forty

dollars. It's very easy to find somebody's home address. Very easy. So it's creepy to think that, you know, now if, if this technology is available to private citizens, that bar encounter takes on a whole new meaning because he'll know who you are like that. He'll have your name. He'll have those, he'll know you went to the concert, you know, where you were wearing the jacket from Tokyo, you know, 20 years ago, he will have so much information about you instantly. And that brings me to the glasses because it's not going to require a big mainframe computer for him to get that info about you under this Clearview technology. Yeah. I mean, so Clearview is working on these augmented reality glasses. They had funding from the air force to develop them. They would be used at military bases so that soldiers can theoretically identify threats from very far away. But yeah, I mean, you can imagine this world in which maybe we do all start wearing augmented reality glasses. And with tools like Clearview, you might be able to identify the people around you in real time. I hate to tell you, we are already in that world

to a certain extent. Clearview has limited its tool to law enforcement and the government, but there are other copycat companies that have created the same kind of technology as Clearview. Their databases aren't as big, but they're on the internet right now. Sites that you can use for free, sites that you can pay a subscription to where you upload a photo of somebody and it will show you other places on the internet where their photo appears, where you might be able to find out what their name is, you know, where they live. So this is, this is not a future scenario. This could happen to you in a bar, you know, tonight where somebody walks up to you,

they are creepy. You never want to see them again. They surreptitiously take your photo and all of a sudden they could know who you are. I mean, I do think that that is a very scary scenario. On the other side, maybe you're talking to somebody who seems great. They're saying all the right things. You take their photo, you look them up, and all of a sudden you see that they have this criminal record or they have this online reputation that you find really disturbing and you want to walk away. So it's like, you know, technology in so many ways, it's just this double edged sword. There is positive use cases and negative use cases. And it really is about who's using it and how they're using it.

Oh my gosh. I mean, I'll tell you this. The one thing you should not put your home address on your driver's license or give it to the government, get a PO.O. box. Just get a P.O. box. It's a bigger pain in the ass to get your mail, but it will put a layer between you and I mean, look, it's it's I've done it because I'm well known, but it's this is everyone's well known now. There there are no more civilians with technology like this out there. So take those steps before it becomes a problem in your life. I mean, you have to do it preemptively before the weird guy is trying to find you. It's just so dark. I don't know this.

I know you write about this in the book, but it's very much like Minority Report where like everything about us is out there. Like there's that scene in Minority Report where Tom Cruise is walking through the like the shopping mall and all the ads are personalized to him because they can see, I don't know if it's his iris or his face, but like, this is the future's here and we cut it. Here it is just to remind those who haven't seen the movie in a while. A road diverges in the desert. Lexus.

The road you're on, John Anderton, is the one less traveled. Make sure you nightfall on your dice. Listen, Mark. John Anderton, is the one less traveled. Make sure you night fall on your dials. It's a bargain. John Anderton. Good evening. You can move the old-fashioned way. John Anderton. Century 21.

It's down the line. It's gourmet cuisine. John Anderton. You can use a Guinness right around now. Is this the one that you're on? Stress out, John Anderton. It's good for me. Get away, John Anderton. Forget your troubles. It's not good. So I see that cash rear.

And the only thing I think is how do I opt out? How do I say, I don't want them doing that to me. And I don't like, I want to opt out somehow. So can we opt out? Yeah, it's funny. I think that we see that movie that way and that people working in technology see that as what they aspire to do. Hashtag goals. depending on your address. So Clearview AI, for example, will allow you to get out of their database if you live in a state that has a privacy law that requires them to delete information

about you. And there's just a handful of states that have those privacy laws. California, Colorado, Connecticut are examples. If you live in those places, you can go to Clearview AI's website and you'll have to upload a photo of yourself and you'll be able to see your report, like see what's in your database, what's in their database about you. And then you can tell them to delete you. And same goes, I think, for Illinois. We talked about how Illinois has this law. It's a very unique law to protect people. But yeah, if you live in Illinois, it says that companies can't

collect your face print, collect your biometric information without your consent, or they have to pay a very hefty fine. So we talked earlier about Madison Square Garden and how they ban lawyers. The company that owns Madison Square Garden is doing that at all their venues in New York City, but not at their theater in Chicago because they would need lawyers' consent to have their face prints and ban them from coming in. And yeah, and some of these other tools I talked about that are on the internet right now where you can do this. A lot of them have opt outs. But again, you have to submit your face, kind of tell them who you are in order to get out and you're like, well, wait a minute, you emailed me to begin with. So you have my email. So what is this? What am I being asked to enter into here? It feels like our relationship is getting stronger, not weaker, which is my goal. Okay. So I like that. I like that, the potential of that. I know that my friend and a man I deeply admired, admire currently, argued this case on behalf of

Clearview, Floyd Abrams of New York Times versus Sullivan. He's the father of Dan Abrams, who's also a friend. Floyd's 84 years old. He's a giant in legal circles. So Clearview hired him to go in and argue against the ACLU, which sued them over this. And my pal Floyd, I guess it either he didn't win or it wasn't looking like he was going to win. And what happened? So, yeah, so they hired Floyd Abrams because he is the expert on the First Amendment, which is the freedom of the press, freedom to information. And Clearview was making this argument that they have a First Amendment right to collect public information that's on the internet and analyze it. And they said they're just like Google, you know, they're just scanning the internet and collecting

it and organizing it. And instead of organizing it, you know, by name, they're organizing it. And instead of organizing it by name, they're organizing it by face. And so, yes, Floyd made this argument and a few of the different lawsuits, there have been quite a few, against Clearview AI, including in Illinois, where the ACLU sued them. And the judge there, it didn't make it to, the case didn't go all the way, it wound up settling. But the judge said, no, the First Amendment is not going to protect Clearview AI. Illinois, the state of Illinois still has the right to say that you're not allowed to do this particular thing with somebody's face print. And so that suit did settle with Clearview agreeing in the future to only sell this database

of billions of photos to law enforcement, to the government. And they said they won't sell it to private entities. They won't sell it to individuals. So the ACLU saw that as quite a win. And Clearview saw it as a win, too, because they said, that's what we're already doing. And that's just what we'll continue to do. I wonder if they could get like, you know, one of those actresses who's had all that work done, you know, like the Melanie Griffith or like the Meg Ryan of like, you know, you've got mail versus the Meg Ryan of today. Would it notice, you know, like are the criminals going to start getting plastic surgery to get past this? Someone's going to come up with a moisturizing cream that dulls the lens, you know, that Clearview would put on you. I don't, there's going to be some technological advancement probably to counteract the creep in the bar with the glasses. Don't you

think? Maybe those 3D plastic masks that you like pull over your head, like a mission impossible. It is, it can be, it can be hard to evade facial recognition. I did this experiment with some of my colleagues at the Times on one of these sites that's available to anyone to use, a site called PimEyes. And we uploaded photos where somebody's face was half covered with a COVID mask, their nose, their mouth, and it was still able to recognize them and find photos of them. I mean, it is astounding how powerful facial recognition has gotten. So it can be hard to evade it. It is possible.

I talked to one lawyer who managed to evade the ban and go to a Knicks versus Cavs game at Madison Square Garden, even though she was on the list, by wearing a baseball cap, glasses, and a COVID mask. That was enough to get through MSG security. The lawyers. All right. We only have like 30 seconds left, but is there anything you want to flag for us that we need to be worried about in addition to all the stuff we've already discussed? I guess just thinking, knowing that this power is out there now, just think about the photos that you do put online and whether they need to be public

photos or whether you want to make them not be on the internet, or if you do make them private so that these companies, and there's more and more of them out there, aren't there out scraping it and using it in ways that you wouldn't want or didn't expect. You know, it's like yet another reason not to put your kid on the internet. Do not put your kid's face all over the internet. Be careful. You don't know how those photos are going to come back to haunt him or her. What a fascinating discussion. Kashmir Hill, the book is Your Face Belongs to Us.

You'll learn a lot. You'll be fascinated. It's a quick, easy read. Thank you so much for writing it. Thank you, Megan. Wow. Okay. I want to tell the audience we're going you so much for writing it. Thank you, Megan. Wow. Okay. I want to tell the audience we're going to be back on Monday with Maureen Callahan. She's going to come here inside the studio and we're going to talk to her about some of the latest shenanigans, the Royals. Did you see the clip that's going around about Madonna? I'm dying to talk to Maureen

about this, among other things. And we're also going to have the head of Stop Antisemitism here to unveil their anti-Semite of the year. Have a great weekend, everyone, and we'll see you then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.