The Megyn Kelly Show - DOJ Finds More Biden Docs, Crowder vs. Daily Wire, and Gender Identity and Kids, with Dave Smith and Dr. Debra Soh | Ep. 477

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Dave Smith, host of "Part of the Problem," to talk about the DOJ finding a lot more classified Biden documents, whether the Democratic machine is trying to push Biden out of running in 2024, the Steven Crowder vs. Daily Wire controversy, who's in the right regarding the contract discussions, Hilaria Baldwin's fake Spanish accent back again, objective reality no longer mattering in America, M&M's giving up on its woke makeover, the latest on Elizabeth Holmes, and more. Then Dr. Debra Soh, author of "The End of Gender," joins to discuss how parents can talk to their kids about gender identity, how to find a rational therapist when it comes to gender and sexual orientation, latest on the YMCA trans policy, and more.Find more from Smith: https://comicdavesmith.com/Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Monday. Big tech, big pharma, and a big show for you today. A little later, we're going to dive into a difficult question we got from a caller last week. Remember Amy in our interview with Dr. Sachs? She was concerned. She was torn. She had a daughter who was 23 who was questioning her gender. And Dr. Sachs basically said, that's outside my area of expertise once I get to that age and couldn't help her. But we have Dr. Deborah So here today who has got a real answer for Amy.

And we are looking forward to bringing that to you. First, however, there's a lot of news to get to from a busy weekend. Happy to welcome back today stand-up comedian Dave Smith, who is the host of the Part of the Problem podcast. Love that name. Dave, welcome back. How are you doing? What's up, Megan? Good to be back with podcast. Love that name. Dave, welcome back. How you doing? What's up, Megan? Good to be back with you.

All is well. So, except if you're Joe Biden, in which case, there are documents coming out of your ears that say classified. They're coming out. It's like, man, there's not Reese, and it's not like, oh, I went home because I'm president to Delaware for the weekend,

and I left one behind. Now they're finding stuff back from his time in the Senate. How long has that been? He became vice president in 08. So we're talking, you know, what, what's that? Let me do my math. 12 plus another three, 15 years old. Stuff's been sitting there. And yet another disclosure that they found yet another tranche of documents at his home. This is the fifth tranche. We don't know exactly how many, because they're just saying they found six items that have classified documents in them. I don't know what that means.

What is that? Is that like file cabinet? Six file cabinets full of classified documents? Worse than Trump? Same as Trump? We have no idea because they're getting intentionally cagey. Last we heard from Biden before this fifth tranche was no regrets. I'm good.

Mr. Cooperation. I'm not like Trump. That's really kind of how they're choosing to handle this. Latest polls show the American public, they do care. Something like 64% say he's been irresponsible. People are not happy about it. But is it a political problem for him or just potentially a legal one? How do you see it? Well, it's I mean, it's just really hilarious that they went all in on this is the worst crime ever committed when it was on Donald Trump's watch. And now the same exact pundits are telling you like, oh, there's really no big deal here.

I think it's it's politically damaging because it's the same thing that they use to justify, uh, you know, rating Donald Trump's home. I think that legally speaking, these are, you know, the, we kind of live under a system that's, uh, um, been described as anarcho tyranny where there are, there is the rule of law, but, um, let's just say the justice department is very selective on when they're going to enforce it. I mean, you think about examples such as, say, James Clapper testifying before Congress that there is no program at the NSA to collect your data. Just said it with a straight face, bold face lie, as clear cut a case as as lying to Congress as you could imagine. Now, had he been one of Trump's lawyers,

I guarantee you he'd be doing jail time for that. Yes, I guarantee you he never will do jail time for that because he's part of the establishment. So it's it's the choice is up to the powers that be whether they would ever prosecute Joe Biden for it. I'm not completely convinced they wouldn't. I think a lot of people don't want him to seek reelection. I think the bigger lesson from all of this is that it's insane how much classified material there is. It's, you know, you could kind of understand a justification for classifying some material in a very narrow, you know, in a very narrow scope, like there's, you know, sources and methods or an issue of national security. But we've learned over and over when we see declassified information that there was never any need to classify it.

Yes. And I think probably almost every president and vice president could could get in trouble for this. It's like there's there's millions of documents that are labeled classified. It's really an outrage, if you think about it, that we tolerate in a supposed democracy that the government's just allowed to operate in secret. I think back to things like I remember when Devin Nunes got that FBI memo declassified, that all it showed was that they used the Steele dossier to obtain the FISA warrants on Carter Page. But they classified that because they just thought it might embarrass the FBI. There's lots of stuff like that. It's a great system, right? I wish I had a system like that where whenever I wrote something stupid or that made me look bad, I could just mark classified on it and no one could ever show it to anybody no matter what happened. That's basically how

they're using this. Like my wife was like, what did you eat while you were on the road? And I was like, sweetheart, that's classified material. I can't. I just can't divulge. Honestly, it is. Look, at this point, you'd like to think, can we just move on? We actually have real problems. Just move on from Trump. Move on from Biden.

We get it. They did bad things with the documents that they arguably weren't supposed to do. But we can't because you got civilians who are being prosecuted by this government right now by the DOJ. There's one woman, Andy McCarthy's been pointing out facing 10 years in prison right now. They haven't yet sentenced her, but she's been found guilty for what appears to be a lesser offense than either one of these guys has even allegedly committed. So there's two talk about two tiered systems of justice. Yeah. And it makes you wonder how these things like I don't know that specific

case, but it makes you wonder how these things actually work. You know, is it that there were people pissed off at this woman? And so that's why they use this as an excuse to, like, prosecute her, because there does seem to be just like an appalling double standard almost at every level of justice in this country where some certain groups, uh, certain classes just do not fit. It can violate the law and face no repercussions. And then other people, you know, it's like we have so many laws on the books. There's, I think there was something, someone wrote a book about how the average person, uh, is, uh, is like a felon four times over. Cause there's just so many laws on the books. And so then you kind of get this, um, you know,

this selective justice where they can decide who their enemies are and go after them. I mean, there's no better example than Trump and all the people who were who were on his campaign and on his cabinet. I mean, they could you know, they'd go 15 years back and find some violation about not registering as a foreign lobbyist or something like this. You could do this to any administration if you wanted to, but they don't usually want to. What Trump's been saying from the beginning, like everybody does this, you know, like, what, why, why are they coming after me? Every president takes documents after his time in office and everybody's like, no, they don't. No, they don't. He's the only rule breaker who refuses

to comply with order. You know, it's all about the spoils for himself. And now here's Joe Biden, like I say, 15 years worth of documents sitting in his home, in his office, in his garage. Oh, and by the way, finally, finally, the DOJ came over, the FBI came over and conducted this search. four tranches were found by his personal lawyers or his White House counsel lawyers, which are really his lawyers, without the eye of the FBI watching over to make sure it was done correctly. So we don't know really what's there or what's been turned over, what hasn't been turned over, right? It's like honor system from a man who clearly has not proven he has honor when it comes to protecting the nation's documents. They're, you know, the country's secrets. Right. Well, I mean, to me, I just look at it and I go,

if you think about the egregious crimes that have been committed by presidents over the years, including the ones that we're discussing, I mean, if you if you think about, you know, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney instituting torture, Barack Obama knowingly armed al Qaeda in Syria. It's like literal treason with a capital T. And they they openly talked about it. He also supported al Qaeda in the war in Yemen. That's continued through all four years of of of Trump's presidency and is continuing into Biden's presidency. Bernie Sanders just pulled back his war powers resolution recently. But these egregious crimes, just ripping off the American people, robbing them to give handouts to giant corporations. I mean, just the level is so, so grave. And then to think that these are the crimes that will actually be discussed,

you know, and that this is what was worth raiding Donald Trump's home for. I mean, just think about just the wars that we've waged in the last 60 years, you know, basically say everything since World War Two, who just think about all of them, how many innocent people have died. None of this ever seems to be viewed as a scandal. On the way out of Afghanistan, Joe Biden had a drone strike that killed like four babies or something like that. And they said it's because they suspected there was an ISIS-K leader there. It turned out they were wrong. I should point out to our listening audience who they're not familiar with, Dave, he's a libertarian and he's not real pro-government

interventions in wars that we may or may not need to be fighting and so on. So kind of put some of those treason comments in context. But you're right. I'm just telling you, but Barack Obama actually, because he wanted to overthrow Assad, started a program, Operation Timber Sycamore. You can go look into it. And they were arming al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria. And this is the same guys we had been fighting against in the Iraq war under George W. Bush. He sent them weapons. There's a leaked audio tape of John Kerry talking about it. I mean, even if you don't agree with me and you think maybe some of these wars were justified. Tell me how you justify that one. Well, I mean, I was focused more on your comment about the war on terror and the torture and all that, which was justified by DOJ lawyers. I mean, that wasn't, yes, you can certainly go back and

say that was the wrong decision or whatever, but at least President Bush had a permission slip from the lawyers who were supposed to be looking after this. And everybody knows why that happened. It was 9-11. We were scared. We bent over backwards to bend civil liberties without much caring about whether or not it was true that these were legal and constitutional. We were scared, right? It's like 3,000 Americans got killed. In any event, all that is stuff from which we should learn. And I don't know that the answer is to start overly prosecuting these issues. Like, it's serious. You shouldn't have top secret documents sitting in your garage or sitting at Mar-a-Lago. Though in President Trump's case, at least there's a question since

he was president about whether he declassified them. You shouldn't be. But let's not treat this. Good God, the amount of press, ink, time we've had to devote to this because they threw the book at Trump. Yeah, I think I think that's basically it. I mean, I think that they're they're number one. The number one goal of the establishment right now seems to be preventing Donald Trump from running again and humiliating them again, as he did in 2016. And so this seemed to be their way to get him. And I got to say, not that I know this, I'm just speculating, but it does. I do wonder if this isn't kind of an inside job to try to bring Joe Biden down. I think there's a lot of very powerful

people in the Democratic machine who are very concerned about this guy being the nominee in 2024 for fairly obvious reasons. In the year 2020, Joe Biden was he was almost gifted in out where he was able to stay in his basement for the whole campaign, do almost no public events. I mean, this is unheard of in modern presidential campaigning, but he was able to do it because it was 2020 and he could kind of spin it and say, well, I'm being the responsible one. I'm not going out and spreading COVID. I'm doing what you're supposed to be doing. You're not going to be able to do that

in this next campaign. And I think a lot of people are waking up to that. He was able to get them through the midterms without having the huge losses that many thought they would have. But I think a lot of them realize now he wants to run for reelection. And I think there's some people who are pretty desperate to try to get him out of there. And next, they have to find an excuse why it can't be Kamala Harris either. If so, this is the lamest attempt at a takedown ever.

I mean, they're going to try to get him out of the political race by saying he also had classified documents. That is such a one small lane issue like that. Trump did this thing and may or may not face prosecution. Putting Biden in the same lane doesn't mean he can't run for political office again. First of all, the DOJ doesn't prosecute a sitting president, so he's not getting prosecuted, period. He's not getting prosecuted. Joe Biden, that is. And at worst, this situation makes it impossible to prosecute Trump. But I don't see in any way how it stops Biden's ability to run or get reelected. I genuinely don't. I understand there's a huge faction on the left that would like to see Gavin Newsom run or somebody other than Biden. But this is the thing. Get Biden on tape in his in his quiet moments. Where's my pudding? Then get that. That's that's the way

to stop Biden. Not this lame legal. Well, he did it, but then he kind of did it. And then the Presidential Records Act and the nobody understands that. Well, there's we'll find out what comes of this, what the extent of it is. I I do agree with you, though, because I feel like it's my two brothers. I feel like it's two brothers who are in a nasty argument with one another. And I'm like, oh, no, please get along. Stephen Crowder and The Daily Wire are at odds right now. Stephen Crowder, and I think our audience knows him. He's been on this show many times. He's hilarious. He's brilliant. And he's been he's been doing his own independent thing, but he's been working for The Blaze. So he's got sort of his own show that he built, but it was under the auspices of the blaze up until December. And then he became a free agent and turn a lot of heads like a week or so ago by coming out with this 30 minute video where he was upset. Like you could see, I know Steven and I could like a couple of times. He almost seemed like he's holding back tears. Like he was emotional. Like, I don't understand what's happening on the right. And I feel like big con is basically doing the bidding of big tech, meaning big conservatism. Um, and he didn't name who he was referring to, but he said, I'm a free agent and I've been in negotiations and

people have to understand Crowder is huge. He's got almost 7 million followers on YouTube. He's got this thing called mug club. He's got subscribers. He was demonetized by YouTube, but he's still making a ton of money because he's so popular. He's been in this business a long time. Um, so to get him would be a real coup for anybody. Um, but of course, controversial because he says whatever the hell he wants to say, and he couldn't care less if you're offended. So he's not for everybody. You couldn't certainly pick him up and put him on at CNN.

In any event, here he is talking about how he was very upset. It's thought 14. Big tech is in bed with big con. The people you thought. The people I thought were fighting for you. A lot of it has been a big con. Now, I'm specifically avoiding naming names or going after individuals in this video because I genuinely hope that those I'm addressing, and you know who you are, have a change of heart. Don't sign these

contracts. I now know what you are signing out there i have the luxury of not having to you know let me go through this if any of the major platforms issues a content strike such that crowder cannot be monetized on such platform the fee will be reduced by 25 and then another 20 of it happens on apple and then another 10 of it happens on facebook and then another 10 of it happens on spotify okay so he's upset about the contract. Now we know it's the Daily Wire. He didn't say it was the Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro's organization. But now we know.

And what he's mad about is that they offered him a $50 million deal over four years. But there was a lot in that $50 million. He was going to have to produce the shows. He was going to have to employ the staff. It's not like Daily Wire was taking that on, from what I understand. Stephen was going to have to pay all those bills. Daily Wire is going to own the content and he was going to get demonetized if he got demonetized. So in other words, if videos got bounced off of YouTube or bounced off of Facebook or so on and Daily Wire couldn't monetize it,

they're going to make Stephen pay the price. So Stephen apparently said no. And I think this is exploitative. And what is this? This looks like a contract I would get from Pod Save America, you know, the lefties who work for Obama, who've got a podcast, not something from the Daily Wire that which understands conservatives get targeted regularly for demonetization. So that's what he said. Then Jeremy Boring, our friend, he runs Daily Wire with Ben, goes out and outs the Daily Wire as the offeror behind that offer and tries to explain that he's good friends with Stephen, that Stephen reached out to the Daily Wire and asked for an offer, that the Daily Wire thought the offer of $50 million over four years,

even though it included all the stuff that Stephen would have to pay for, was pretty generous. And it was just an opener, just to debate. And all those terms that Stephen was up, that's just to debate. And here's a little bit of Jeremy. I'll play Sot 16 here. Stephen, again, I think the most entertaining, talented person in the conservative movement, I think one of the most entertaining and talented people in entertainment generally in the country today. But Stevens never had to create the company that actually distributes markets and monetizes all of that content.

You know, he talks in his video about being one of the only true independent conservative voices. And I find that incredibly offensive. You know, Steven, the whole time I've known him has worked for someone else. All right. So now it's on and I'll get to the next part in a second. You know where this is going. But so far we have one of the biggest voices in the conservative media saying your contract, your terms are so draconian that not only would they make it impossible for me to do business, they will make it impossible for any young guy or gal coming up the ladder to effectively do business. And they have Jeremy and Daily Wire saying, dude, that's business. That's life.

So far, where do you stand? Well, I got to say, and I kind of just hate this whole thing i mean i did i just did an episode on my podcast about it's obviously one of those things you kind of have to talk about um because it's just so many people are talking about it but i hate it all it's ugly and i i don't think any of this should be out in the public but i i just i i gotta say this is it just comes off bad from steven crowder's position as far as i'm concerned i I thought it was, it was, I don't know that he did this intentionally, but I think it was really dishonest to, um, to not disclose the fee while disclosing all of the other information or some of the other information in this agreement, which was also not a contract that he kept insisting. It was, it was a non-binding kind of like uh i forget what they

call it like a term sheet or something like that it's basically a starting point for negotiations i also am kind of surprised you know he's um he's kind of making the argument as you said that oh this is you know this is the type of contract that you would think the the lefties would give you but i i just feel like almost his attitude and a lot of his supporters attitude, it's almost like they're they're treating this like like they're acting like a bunch of lefties when it comes to the nature of business and and how how things work. I mean, like, what are we all a bunch of socialists here who are like, you should get paid the exact same whether you're bringing in as much money or not. That's this is this is how business works. I mean, what you're going to get compensated is going to be a reflection of how much money

you're bringing in. Now, I think it's horrible that YouTube will, you know, will censor people for having, you know, unpopular opinions. I wish we didn't live under this kind of this regime of tech censorship. But that's the reality. And if you're independent and you get booted off of Apple or YouTube, you're going to lose money. And if you're with another company, they're going to lose money. And of course, especially when you're talking about such huge sums of money, of course, they can't pay. I mean, it seemed to me like the stipulations in the deal were, well, we'll pay you this much money, but you have to do the show.

We're not going to pay you for shows you're not doing. And also if something happens where you're bringing in drastically less money, that's going to be affected. Um, I, none of that seems unreasonable to me. I kind of want to side with Steven Crowder in a way on this issue, but I'm just looking at his actual argument and going, I just don't see it. And I think that the guys at the Daily Wire came off pretty good on this. I mean, they outed themselves and then gave you the entire term sheet.

They were like, we have nothing to hide. They always do that. I'll tell you all of this. They always lift the dress up, so to speak. They really do. They're very transparent about anything happening. They have their staff meetings. They broadcast them publicly when they had their fight with between Ben and Candace over Kanye.

Jeremy came on here. We talked about the whole thing. I mean, they they are transparent and they're a really important force for good in America. They're they're they're not, you know, big con. They're not big tech. They're not on the side of big tech however i'll take steven's side just for the purposes of this argument because you know well i want them both represented he's his point is there are other ways to make sure you get paid and i get paid as opposed to bending the knee to big tech, to docking me if YouTube docks me.

That's a Stevens argument. And I will say a subscription model is really the way around that. And the Daily Wire is trying to build both. They have a subscription piece and they have advertising. It's belts and suspenders, which makes sense. I get it. But, you know, I will say here it's serious. No one's ever said to me if you get, if you get pinged on YouTube or a show

doesn't, if it gets demonetized, because you've talked about a third rail issue, we're going to dock your pay. No one's ever said that to me and I wouldn't agree to that. So I see his point too. It's not all like, oh, it's capitalism. There is a way to strike a deal where you do get paid, even if you get penalized by big tech, and the company's got to find a way to make sure their bottom line is still what it needs to be. Right. So I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, but I think that this is why he let everyone know what the penalties were, but he didn't let anyone know what the number was. And this is the point is that it's like, yeah, if you're going to like, yeah, there could be other models like that,

in which case you would probably get a percentage of the subscriptions that you generate. And that's that's fine. I mean, if like there was an issue where all of a sudden your subscriptions were cut in half, then that would have to be reflected in in your compensation as well. But the point is that they are shelling out 50 million bucks on the on their bet is like well here's how we can make money because you got whatever he's got like seven million youtube uh subscribers or something like that if you lose that that's going to affect the bottom line i think no matter what what deal you structure there's just no way where um like if if uh lebron if 70 of the people who watch the NBA stop watching the NBA, LeBron James makes less money. No matter how you structure that deal.

Then LeBron James may get fired. I mean, I think, see, I sort of come to this from a different angle because I come to it from cable and broadcast television, where they would never dock your pay because your show lost advertisers. Look at Tucker. You know how many advertisers he's lost? They don't dock his pay at Fox. And I'm sure his show is not the best earning show when it comes to advertiser money on Fox. But Fox, too, has sort of a dual model. You know, I mean, you have to pay to get fox news on your cable and um that's where they make most of their money like these cable subscription fees and then they get an additional you know a couple hundred million dollars or who knows uh per show or whatever

in the advertisement fees but like they they're never they're not going to let go of tucker just because he's getting boycotted no that's that's true and they're not going to charge him or dock him well but the difference there is that tucker is still the biggest thing in cable news and he's on fox news so he still is generating a lot of money with like you know the 17 my pillow commercials or whoever will like advertise uh during tucker carlson's show why is that not the same for crowder at the daily wire why because they're crowders huge he's crowders crowder would be by far the biggest thing that they had in terms of youtube and followers i mean ben's huge too but like crowders you sort of it's like rogan crowder you know it's huge he's he's in a class of maybe one or two yeah absolutely but the the

difference here is like if you can get kicked off of YouTube or you can get kicked off even of Apple pay or whatever, that would almost be like Fox News is in the is in the position where they don't control if Tucker's show is canceled or not. And they're like, oh, if you're canceled and all of a sudden the four million people who are watching you can't watch you anymore. You know what I mean? So there's just like it's a little bit of an apples to orange in the different models. I look, I think it would have been completely reasonable for Steven Crowder to respond to them and say, I don't like structuring a deal this way or for him to just do what he did and just not not agree to the deal and stay independent. I would probably if I was like giving him advice, she's not soliciting my advice. But if he was, I'd say, I think you should keep going independent. I think he's going to make a ton of money either way i think he's going to doing it you know yes but and you know it's good to get diverse it's good to get diverse voices out there to have them not join forces to be perfectly honest to have you know crowder create his own independent empire and the daily wire continue growing its empire you know we need more not

fewer um so it's almost like you kind of don't want to see a merge in a way. But now here's where things went really south and things got extra controversial. So Jeremy came out with his half an hour response saying, and Jeremy's, I love Jeremy Boring and I love Crowder and Ben too, but Jeremy's got like this sort of, I don't know, avuncular style sometimes, you know, like he's just sort of likable. I don't know the way he presents. He's like, oh, we offered him these terms and he's been my friend for a long time. And, you know, they weren't acceptable to him. And we said we're he said Stevens agent countered. No, he wants 30 million dollars a year. And unless you offer that, we're not going to talk. And that the Daily Wire then responded, yeah, we're not going to be able to do that. We're not going to talk. And that the Daily Wire then responded, yeah, we're not gonna

be able to do that. And the next thing they knew, uh, Crowder had submitted this video and, you know, they were like, Hey, this is an opener. Like we were ready to talk. We wanted to have a negotiation. We didn't get to have it. And then Crowder responded by revealing he had taped Jeremy in a conversation that preceded this back and forth, but was, I think, in January. Here is Crowder, SOT17. Bench talent, young talent, they don't get deals like this. So they don't get deals that...

They wage slaves for a little bit, come over and make a salary and grow their brand. That you then own. Well, I own parts of it. I don't own it. When their contract's up, they can still go out and they'll still be famous. They can keep doing their shows, go do a show somewhere else. They'll be in a far, far, far better place. You help them make them.

No, not long enough this contract. This contract owns it in perpetuity even after the contract. You're paying a lease but getting ownership. That's what this contract is. On the content that we paid to produce yes so a couple of things there dave um we'll talk about the fact that he taped jeremy without jeremy's knowledge in a sec but just on the business points so i i think here's the thing like i worked for fox news for i don't know how many years i for 13 years 14 i don't know something like that and um they own every single show i ever did they own the interviews i did you know it's i don't have the copyright to those shows

because they paid to produce them and they paid me a salary to do them, but they own the actual material and I don't have an ongoing right to them. Now I do. Now I negotiated a deal and I've been very open about this before. And to Sirius's credit, they don't care. All my content's mine. If Sirius and I break up tomorrow, I take the content with me. It's mine. But the only reason I was able to negotiate that deal is because I had already established a name for myself. I had, I came into the negotiation with bargaining power and they recognized that and they were cool with it. So I understand Crowder's principle of like, they're just working for you and they don't have any spoils at the end. But I understand Jeremy's retort, which is we're going to make them as for the young people who were talking about it. What

no one knows them. And in his, like nobody really knew Matt Walsh or Michael Knowles, you know, before the daily wire really helped grow them with all due respect to those guys. So, you know, he's got a good business point there.

Jeremy does. Yeah. And, and like the reason those guys grew is because they did something with the opportunity that a lot of people wanted to watch and they made compelling content and stuff like that. But of course, yeah, they were given an opportunity. They were given a platform that was preexisting already. I think the example you used of yourself there is perfect. I mean, the reason why you would be in a position where you could say to a big

company, hey, I'm going to own all of my content. And they're like, OK, well, we still really want to get Megyn Kelly is at least in part because your show was so huge on Fox News that you have a name that the people know you that they'll follow you over here. People who maybe didn't have serious will go get serious because you're on there. You know what I mean? And so I just think that a lot of times in a lot of different ways, people really don't. I understand. Look, people always feel like they should be paid more and bosses always feel like they should be paying less. Everyone's incentivized to feel that way. But a lot of times these deals where they may not be perfect, they might be an opportunity.

I mean, like for example, it like you just use Matt Walsh. If Matt Walsh were to leave, uh, uh,, he's huge. He can go do whatever he wants to do next. He'll have a big audience that will come with him. But that's in part because of working with this company and in part because he made content that people enjoy. But so I think there's just a lot of stuff to that. You know, I mean, Stephen Crowder has worked for he worked for fox news for a while he worked with the blaze for a while i mean he's benefited from all of that stuff he also benefited

because he put out content people love but i just uh i i don't think i i i thought again it was just really dishonest of steven crowder especially he played that um the wage slavery line um and he played it like over and over again, but I thought that was pretty clearly a joke. Um, he, he was even laughing as he was saying it because I thought like I was under the impression that we didn't believe in that term wage slave or wage, uh, slave, uh, you know, like I thought that was a dumb lefty term. Well, people were mad that he was saying that. And then it came out that he was offered a $50 million deal, which, you know, again, I, I agree. I recognize it wasn't exactly

50 million cause he would have had a lot to pay and he would have had a lot of risk in there. Um, and listen, he he's worth that. I mean, he's definitely worth that. I think he's, he's worth more than that. But again, Jeremy was saying it's just a starter by the way. It's a great thing overall. And I wish he hadn't taped Jeremy. I really wish he hadn't taped Jeremy. Jeremy is such, I really think he's such a straight shooter. He would have totally listened to Stephen if Stephen had called him back and been like, this is a douchebag offer and here are all the reasons why. I feel like they would have had a good talk. They could have landed something really great. But I also believe, Dave, everything works out the way it should. You know, Crowder should build his own empire and he should hire young talent and he should

give them the terms that he's talking about and see if we could create an ecosphere where that happens, you know, where you don't, as the platform, say, I'm going to have certain advantages while I help build you. Let's see what happens there. Let's have lots of options for young conservative voices or just independent voices to go to, as opposed to just like one thing like Fox news, Fox nation. And I love daily wire, but we need more than daily wire, right? Like we need anyway. So hopefully this is a land where it should, I predict they're going to make up. I think Jeremy's sweet, probably Ben's madder than Jeremy. Cause it's like his friend who got burned.

And Crowder's sweet too. And so I feel like in the end, it's going to land. I'm volunteering to moderate. I'll moderate. I'll mediate. I'll do what I have to do. Yeah, they can come on the show. We can have a great debate right here.

Literally everybody in the conservative ecosphere would watch that. That would be great. That would be great to watch. Well, they'd be hard pressed to find somebody who actually loves them both as much as I do. In any event, look, we'll pick it up after this debate because there's much, much more going on in the media. Most of it not good. And my favorite story of the day yet to come, Hilaria Baldwin is at it again. Yes, the girl from Boston. Is that Spanish? Am I trying to, do I sound Spanish? I'm trying to imitate Hilaria doing her Spanish accent. You see?

That's more Italian. Stand by. I'll explain what's happening. So Dave, this is my favorite story. It's as if if you wish for something to come back in the news cycle

hard enough, you get it. It'll happen. So I understand that the Alec Baldwin family is going through a lot right now. Okay, I got it. And his wife, she didn't shoot anybody. So it's always hard when you're the spouse and your public figure spouse is going through something rough. And I also very much sympathize with not wanting paparazzi there following you as you drop your kids off at school. That too has angered me. And I'm pretty much very defensive of like the media's right to take

pictures and write negative things about you. But following a young mother dropping off kids at school is bullshit. All right. That should not happen. It's confusing for the kids. You can get them on camera. It's confusing for the other kids they go to school with. They don't deserve to be on camera. All that. However, that's not what this story is about. It is about Hillary. Hillary. Hillary. Wait, let me find her actual what pages of this on to my team, because it's about this woman who is not actually named Hilaria. It is about a woman whose name is Hillary Lynn Hayward Thomas masquerading as Hilaria. Once again, pretending to be from Spain, which she's not.

And she's already gotten in trouble for doing this. You tell me why this girl from Boston, Mass., who went to a Tony private school in Weston, Massachusetts, which literally is one of the nicest suburbs you've ever seen in your life. The daughter of, I think, a chiropractor and somebody is pretending to be from Spain. Here she is again. Listen to the accent all the way through.

I want you guys to realize that we have seven kids. And you being here to escort them to school and to be there when they come home is not good. So on a human level, you guys know I'm not going to say anything to you. You know that. So please leave my family in peace and let this all play out. Okay? So let my kids come home and you stay away from them. Because they asked me,

Mommy, what are these people doing? And it's a very hard thing as a mom to try to explain. So please go home. Because I'm not going to say anything. And Alec is not going to say anything. Oh my God, Dave. Why? I mean, I'll tell you.

I would have bought it. I'm not real great at recognizing accents. So I would have just been like, clearly, this is a Spanish woman right here. I don't know what the... I suppose this is her identity. Who are we to say that she can't identify as a person born and raised in Spain? No, she cannot. I am the person. I am the person. I am somebody to say it. It, of course, reminds us all of when she originally got in trouble for this. People resurfaced this clip from the Today Show circa 2015 where she leaned all in. This is SOT11.

We have very few ingredients. We have tomatoes. We have, how do you say it? Cucumber. Cucumbers. How do you say it? Dave, she is as American as we are. They don't get a lot of cucumbers in Boston.

She probably just isn't sure what she's like. I don't know what this thing is. How you say? How you say? Now, it is a lie that she not only perpetrated, but Alec Baldwin perpetrated as well. Here he was a couple of years before that last clip I played on with Letterman talking about Elaria. I mean, Hillary Lynn Hayward Thomas. Listen. My wife's on the phone with her hairdresser or a friend.

She's like, really? OK, I can't wait to see you. That's going to be great. Fantastic. What time? Twelve o'clock. My wife is from Spain. And she said, no.

And I don't mean to be racist when I put that accent on there, by the way. No, she's not from Spain. Is she racist when she puts that accent on there? Because she also is not from Spain. It's the thing about it is it's just so bizarre. Even with that Rachel Dolezal lady, you could kind of understand. There are affirmative action programs and things like that. You could understand, okay, maybe she's trying to get something out of this.

But what would the benefit of this be? What's Alec Baldwin just gets come on you're exotic it's not cool to be just like the boring white girl from the rich suburb of boston it's much cooler to be like exotic i'm from spain i have the fire of somebody who has a spaniard i bring the heat to every conversation i cannot say cucumber right like that that is more exciting. Okay, fine, fine. You're right. That is cooler than being the rich white girl from the suburbs. But what's less cool than being the rich white girl

from the suburbs is being the rich white girl from the suburbs pretending to be a Spanish woman when everyone knows she's not. That's the least cool option you have. She didn't know. See, that's why you could excuse

the first attempts, the one cucumber. You could excuse that. It was still was still a fraud you know she was perpetrating it alec was going along with it we were all buying into the oh he married some girl from spain now she's been outed now they had interviews after that whole scandal a couple years ago with her high school friends like what do you mean she was like played the clarinet here at Western High School, whatever it was. And she's still doing it. My only conclusion was, is it like a nervous tick? You know, like she did it for so long that now when she's in front of the cameras and like something bad's happening, she's got to go back to her native tongue. The thing that makes her feel better about her distress in her life. Maybe she's just, she's like become the lie. Like maybe she's just been doing it so long that now she really believes she's from Spain. Like she doesn't even know what's what anymore. Yes.

Oh wait. Okay. So that I'm going to parlay that in a minute into something good. But before we leave an area, um, one of the great things about this story and stories like it is they always produce wonderful memes and like TikTok videos. TikTok, we always rip on TikTok because, you know, for all the obvious reasons,

but it does have a lot of great videos and funny moments on it. And that leads me to this. My team is going to tell me who did this because I fell in love with her when I saw it. And I'll tell you on the other side of this clip. Here's fake Hilaria in a little comedy bit we found. I grew up in Spain, okay? Okay? Hey, Bob! Anyways, my children, they are not okay, okay? You guys here, you be here, you always here.

Ooh, yay, Santa Maria. Okay? Hey, John. It's not okay. Okay? How you say cucumber. Okay? Now, you don't be here.

You go home to your families. Okay? Good day, mate. now you don't be here you go home to your families okay good day mate the marvelous miss chanel i think that's what they said she's very talented sasha stone thank you for that heads up on twitter so great as a comedian you got to appreciate that yeah it's uh yeah the internet the Internet is really just for the like memes and stuff like that. The genius of the Internet is never paralleled. Well, you know, it's also just I mean, the way great comedians do. It's pointing out something you've recognized in your own head, but you haven't been able to really put a voice to, which is Elaria does not always

sound like that. Elaria has given plenty of interviews where she sounds just like I sound right now. And then every once in a while she slips into her fake Spanish accent. So like she's doing the Aussie accent, whatever. That's exactly what this woman's doing. So I don't know what kind of an attempted fraud it is or if it's just like a not well person. Did you ever see, by the way, another Hillary, but you ever see like those video compilations of the different voices Hillary Clinton's had through the years at like different campaign stops and different periods in her life? Like when she was first lady, she was like a Southern belle. And then when she was a New York Senator, she's like talking like a New Yorker. And then she goes to like a black Baptist church or something. And she's all like, y'all know me.

It's like, what what has happened how do these people do this how do you like how do you how do you constantly perform it's so bizarre well remember when madonna moved to england when she married i can't remember his name the british guy the filmmaker guy ritchie and for like three years and she came back with a british accent as if moving to england as an adult gives you a british accent after three years and she came back with a British accent as if moving to England as an adult gives you a British accent after three years. What a lie. Yeah. So weird. So weird. I don't understand how these people, uh, like what the thought process is. It's embarrassing. I, again, it goes back to wanting to seem cooler than you are. It's like

Elaria, I guess she really wants a career as something more than a yoga instructor and feels the need to glom on to something exciting, exotic, whatever. I mean, we saw Gwen Stefani got ripped last week because she said, I'm Japanese. She wasn't trying to say she's actually Japanese. But it's boring to just be this girl from America who's got, I guess, nothing going on other than you're a multimillionaire and you make hugely famous songs and perfumes. I guess even in her situation, you need to make yourself more interesting. Yeah, you'd think that would be enough.

But I imagine maybe the part of the attraction of being married to Alec Baldwin was like, well, I'll be kind of in the public eye now. And that's and she's kind of like, you know, just enjoying this moment of getting extra attention. So why not play it up and do a whole like cool thing? I, it's just, it's not, I can understand wanting to be cool. I can understand wanting the attention, but there's a real like soci, like sociopathic tendency to just be willing to be so dishonest in order to get that. And honestly, to know that society will allow it for the most part, like they'll cooperate, that they also like those kinds of things. Like, I don't know how Larry got caught the first time. I can't remember how, again, Hillary Lynn Hayward Thomas managed to fool us for so many years that

she was hilariousilaria. But normally society kind of plays along, you know, like I, I don't know, they're willing to let you lean into your claimed identity in certain lanes. You can't pretend you're black. You can certainly pretend you're a man or a woman when you're not. And I don't just like some Bridget Fedesee came on once and said, hate the game, not the player. And I was reminded of it, you know, when I look back at the origins of Elaria and also when I looked at the fact that Kim Kardashian spoke at Harvard business school this weekend. Yeah, there you go. Well, uh, it's there. Look by the, I mean, I know this just becomes like a silly joke. Like I was making at the front at the beginning, like, oh, she can identify as this. But by the logic of the trans argument, it doesn't seem obvious to me why you shouldn't just be able to identify as

whatever you want to. If we're just saying that biological constraints don't matter and objective reality doesn't matter and whatever you feel is now somehow the arbiter of truth then why can't you identify as a different race a different species a different nationality an inanimate object i mean i don't know yeah it's weird we've come to such a weird point already as a society and what we accept that it's almost like, well, why wouldn't we accept all of this? And honestly, it's like, well, is it maybe because you're allowed to do it as long as you're not co-opting somebody or something that's in a protected class? Well, that can't be true because women are in a protected class, but you can't say you identify as black if you're not.

You can't say I identify as disabled if you're're not nobody that I know of would say I identify as an elderly person, you know, a senior with special rights when you're not like there are certain things you can't touch. But sure, women, I mean, we're always fair game. You can you can come over in our lane. You can co-opt our personal spaces. And boy, do we have an update for you on that and what I mean, that YMCA case, which we'll get to in just a little bit. All right. Now I'm going to tie in this voice conversation with a, with the news that broke over the weekend about Elizabeth Holmes. Do not trust women who falsely manipulate their

voice, either to create a fake accent or a fake deep, deep timber. Uh, she's heading for jail, but boy, guess what, Dave? She tried not to, according to the prosecutors. Stand by for that. Speaking of women who do fake voices, Elizabeth Holmes, we would be remiss if we did not mention her in a context like that. News that jumped out at me this weekend that I couldn't believe but kind of can believe. But wow, court documents filed last week, Thursday, reveal that prosecutors say she tried to flee after she got convicted of fraud. She tried. She got herself a one way ticket down to Mexico. It's unbelievable, but totally believable. By the way, just for those who are not familiar, Elizabeth Holmes ran Theranos, this company that said that they were going to be able to prick

your finger and take a single drop of blood and be able to run all sorts of blood tests on it. And they could not, it was a lie. They never were able to do it. And she led a lot of very important people to think they had done it to the point where it got offered in Walgreens. And she said it was being used by the military. It wasn't. And she was convicted of fraud. She had, while she was in trouble, she met a guy. They got married. I think she'd either gone on trial or certainly been outed as having committed fraud. Married, this guy married her. He's a trust fund guy.

He doesn't appear to have much of a career himself, but he, at least that's how it looks based on what I read. But he's got family dough. They get married. She has no dough now. So she marries a rich guy, thanks to his family family dough and he marries her. I don't know why exactly, but they had a kid and she was pregnant with her second kid when she got convicted and the baby's not born. The baby's due in April. And a lot of people thought this is a sympathy play.

She was trying to convict, like no jury would convict a young mother pregnant with a baby. Wrong. She got sentenced to 11 years in prison. And what the prosecutors allege is that she was going to Mexico, booked a trip January 26, 2022, without a return ticket. It wasn't until the prosecutors alerted her legal team three days before she was about to go that she was doing this. So it was almost exactly a year ago that she then canceled the ticket. Then they took her passport and her team said it was a misunderstanding that the reservation was made before the verdict. She had planned to attend a friend's wedding, which Dave seems a little weird because I've been to friends' weddings before and I always get the round trip. I just assume they don't want me to stay with them permanently. You would think she would book the round trip even if she was

planning an escape just in the event that you get caught. You'd be like, oh no, look, I was just going and I was coming right back. It seems like that at least I mean, if her husband's got the money now, it will. It seems like a good idea. The whole story was so amazing for people who don't know. They made a really great documentary on it that she really did. You ever see on the office when Will Arnett was was on it anyway, they had this part where he was interviewing for a job and he was interviewing for the job and he was like, he goes, I have a plan that I can guarantee will double your profits. And they were like, wow, that's that's amazing. What's your plan? And he was like, well, no, I can't give you the plan. But like, if you give me the job, then I'll give you the plan. And this is literally what this woman did successfully got had like meetings with Henry Kissinger and Bill Clinton and had all of these incredibly, you know, unimpressive elites buying into her thing

that she said she could prick your finger and do full detailed blood work on you and never had to explain how because she was like, well, I can't if I gave away that secret, then everyone would just take it and they could use it. And that actually worked for a very long time. So exactly right. I don't know. I guess she probably is under the belief that she can get away with a lot after that. And maybe she just thought, like, I'll figure out I'll get away with this one, too. It's it wasn't until Wall Street Journal John Carreo, a reporter, got onto her and wrote this in-depth piece that her fraud blew up in her face.

Her partner in crime alleged Sonny Balwani still awaits his trial. But it does, you know, I've said this before, but crossing the first ethical line matters. It matters more than crossing the 10th or 12th or 400th ethical line. of the first ethical line is big and it's bad. And it's where character is sorted in that moment. And look, this isn't the be all end all, but it is, there is something to the fact that she changed the voice. Her voice was not this deep voice. It was a normal woman's voice. We've actually butted it together. One of the many podcasts who took a deep dive into Elizabeth Holmes after all this found some tape of her talking like she used to, and we butted it together with her fake voice.

Here's just a sample. No, it hasn't. Well, if I use traditional words to describe what we're doing, it's hard. And we've made it possible to eliminate the tubes and tubes of blood that traditionally have to be drawn from an arm and replaced it with the nanotainer.

I guess you could say she wanted to be taken more seriously. I would say it's all part of her fraud. Yeah, I think I think there's really something to your point about kind of that first line, that first line that you cross. And once you're OK crossing that, it kind of justifies the next and the next and the next. And there, you know, it's almost like, I think that this is how predatory people take, they're able to be successful is that the vast majority of us are not predators and we tend to project ourselves onto others. And, you know, you would just never think that someone would be so brazen. I mean, even just seeing her up there, like, I mean, as she's holding up this little violin

announcing we've been able to figure this out, you would just never imagine. I mean, no one's going to get up there and say that when they just have nothing. They have not figured this out at all. Most of us just would never have the would never even think to do that not even just for ethical giving results to sick people she was telling people with cancer that this was gonna work i mean like who manipulates the ill yeah yeah and so it's like most of us work within the confines of these kind of ethical frameworks. And when someone's just completely, you know, like they, those constraints just aren't on them. It doesn't dawn on most of us

that that would even be possible. So again, it's, and there's something similar with faking your voice. I mean, most of us just couldn't even imagine. We couldn't even wrap our heads around the idea of just, just I'm speaking to you in a fake voice right now. I'm just going to assume the way you're talking to me, this is actually right now. I'm just going to assume the way you're talking to me. This is actually your voice. And but yeah, there is there's a connection there. There's something that is really sociopathic about doing that. There is. You're exactly right. And she, you know, I was thinking about this husband because I'm OK. If you read further in the reports, they say, oh, well, because I said to my husband,

Doug, I'm like, well, was there a wedding in Mexico? Because that's knowable. You know, like you could figure that out. And then they said, well, you know what? The husband actually did go to Mexico right around this time. I'm like, oh, well, maybe there was. But no. Then, Dave, the husband went to Mexico right around that time and then stayed gone for six weeks going to all over Australia and Helen gone as as his wife is like about to go to prison potentially for 11 years. Like what kind of a husband does that? Yeah, that's that's different than my marriage. I think if my wife was going away, she'd really insist that I come spend those those few days

with her. Luckily, she has not defrauded anyone yet that I know of. But it's not there are there are very, very weird people who are very different from you and I in the world. And it's, you know, I know as a lawyer, you kind of like see people like that. But it's it's really something to to watch it and then of course as i mentioned before just the other thing that's just so interesting about this woman's story was just how easily she was able to sucker so many people into this who you would think would

know better would know better or would at least be doing some vetting of this situation whereas like basically any nurse could have looked at this and gone, wait, but this is impossible. Like you, you must have some groundbreaking technology here. Like there's no conceivable way that this could be done. And, uh, somehow it right. Like you said, until the whistle was finally blown, there's a tinge of woke ism and there's a tinge of, uh, good old fashioned sex appeal involved in this this i think because look who's on her board uh you mentioned mentioned kissinger mad dog mattis he was on the george schultz uh former secretary of state he was the big guy who like backed her to the end notwithstanding his

grandson tyler being like granddad it's a fraud he wound up being the whistleblower who made a big difference all these older yeah i'm just saying like these guys are probably like a yes, it's wonderful. A woman making it in Silicon Valley. She's the new Steve Jobs. She dresses like Steve Jobs. And and there's a piece of like, yes, I'm going to support the woman, check a box. And then there's probably a piece of like. Check her out. She pays me a lot of attention. She's very nice. I mean, listen, I'm going to say the truth. I don't find Elizabeth Holmes all that attractive, but I'm going to guess if I were 90, I'd probably feel differently, and a guy would probably feel differently about it, too. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what Henry Kissinger is pulling these days,

but from what I heard, he was doing quite well in his time. So I think you're right about all of that, though. I do think that there's real, you know, it's a real poisonous thing that's just been completely accepted by our society that merit is not the most important metric and that rather we're checking boxes, which is like horrible and is completely against, I think the spirit, at least traditionally the spirit of being against prejudice. The whole point of being against prejudice was that you didn't want to keep people who deserved to be there out based on silly, you know, things like, you know, based on not that, you know, gender is silly, but that, you know, it's a it's a silly reason to not hire someone or not give someone an opportunity. And now we've completely flipped that and we're just doing that on the same metric, just in the reverse direction.

Like in the name of female empowerment, we're just we're we're emboldening fraudsters. You know, like we're not kicking the tires. We're not making sure like that story in the Biden administration about the non-binary guy who was like bald with a full face of makeup and a dress who was stealing all the luggage at the airports, like identity trumps all, which, which leads me to M&Ms. All right. So yet another ridiculous attempt to empower women, Dave, by taking the stiletto heels off of the girl M&Ms. This happened about a year ago. We did a long piece on it because they thought somehow this is going to help, I don't know what, some moron. I guarantee you it's like some ridiculous guy or unattractive woman making

these decisions. So that was a year ago. And then they came out with like, I don't know, they identified which M&Ms are female. It's been ridiculous. It's been one thing after another. And then today we get a statement just as we go to air from M&Ms. We have a statement from M&Ms Mars Company and here it is. America, let's talk. Why am I talking to my M&M? In the last year, we've made some changes to our beloved spokes candies. We weren't sure if anyone would even notice. And we definitely didn't think it would break the internet, but now we get it. Even a candy shoes can be polarizing, which was the last thing M&Ms wanted since we're all about bringing people together. Therefore, we have decided to take an indefinite pause from the spokes candies,

Dave. In their place, we are proud to introduce a spokesperson America can agree on, the beloved Maya Rudolph. We are confident Ms. Rudolph will champion the power of fun to create a world where everyone feels they belong. No acknowledgement explicit, but implicitly there

as to what a disaster their attempted walk down the lane of wokeness was for their company. Yeah. Yeah. God, it's just modern wokeism. One of the things that's so infuriating about it is that there is a legitimate need to have kind of like what is the left wing impulse to care about marginalized people and to care about people who are victimized and to say, hey, there are you know, you almost need this kind of like you have a right wing that defends hierarchies because hierarchies are necessary and are natural. And then you have a left wing that's like, OK, but sometimes there's people at the

bottom of these hierarchies who are mistreated. And that's also kind of needed. Like you need both of those in a healthy society. But like we have actual marginalized people in in the the world, in our country who could use help and could use someone to advocate for them. is just completely overtaken by these dumb, empty gestures that are really targeted toward making the kind of elite class feel better about themselves and making sure that they're never uncomfortable. That does absolutely nothing for anybody who really needs it. You know, if you want like like there are like if you look at the rate of like abuse that women suffer through like people who are like taking these journeys through uh south america to america who are immigrating here it's like horrific like the the rape stats are like horrific but where does the outrage about rape culture

always come from it's like uh college campuses like oh yes upper middle class girls in college that's what we're focused on and you know you know, even like the, you know, Black Lives Matter and stuff where they're talking about like tearing down statues or you hear about like something offensive that a professor said to a college student. Meanwhile, you know, you get on get on Amtrak from New York to Washington, D.C. and look out your window as you go through baltimore you know like look out your window and see what like this this neighborhood which is like 99 black uh kids walking around without shoes in condemned buildings and like no one's ever sticking up for them no one's ever saying like hey let's actually think about what could make these people's lives a little better because it's really messed up what's happening to people here. Instead, it's like conversations about, you know, this like kind of corporatized nonsense about what character Mr. Potato Head or the stilettos shoes on an M&M. It's just so it's like how it's

unbelievable that we can be this mind numbingly stupid and the lights still turn on when I flick a light switch. How do we have a functioning society and we're actually having conversations this dumb? Yes, my God, you're so right. Of course, Baltimore, long run by Democrats, is a long term, deep, deep blue city, as so many of these cities are that are hurting financially and hurting black and brown communities and the crime rates are rising. But yeah, they won't look at that. They'll only look at, quote, whiteness. Whiteness is what they blame it on, these woke activists. There was an example of this, which is absolutely disgusting, out of Michigan a couple of days ago. Jackson

School Board member. OK, this is Jackson, Michigan. Her name is Kesha Hamilton. And Kesha thought she was going to get right to the bottom of these Keisha. All right, whatever. She thought she was going to get right to the bottom of these problems by posting the following comments. Here's just a couple December 18th. Whiteness is so evil. How'd you like this from your school board member where your kid goes to school?iteness is so evil it manipulates then says i won't apologize for my dishonesty and trauma-inducing practices and thinks you should applaud it for being honest about its ability to manipulate and be dishonest hashtag deceitful has hashtag perfidious which means lying um so a couple people responded here's one who wrote a much nicer

response than I would have saying, this is so disheartening. Weren't you elected to represent the entire student body within our racially diverse student population? In response to which she says, what's disheartening, calling out whiteness or whiteness being evil. So they go, they have a board meeting and the Jackson community members were a little upset about what she had written. And I want you to keep in mind as you listen to some of this, here's another post that she had, okay? Because she's about to claim that this is all attacking this thing of whiteness as opposed to white people. But here's another response she had on December 3rd. A man named Glenn Martin posted the following, black, male, alone, raining, foggy, hiking. You write the rest of the script. Her response, the last thing you have to worry

about is an animal, though that could be a very real threat. More dangerous are any white folks you may see on the trail. Be safe. Now this woman wants us to believe she has nothing against white people, just whiteness, as if that's okay. Here's first a sampling of the school board meeting and the community members at it. Our skin color is apparently evil and dangerous, according to one board member, perhaps more than one board member. Perhaps more than one board member. We would all like to find out who else defines my family and ancestors as evil and dangerous. How can children with white heritage feel safe when a board member posts

racist statements against whiteness and white folks? These posts were made to incite and divide with no explanation of her supposed intention until after she incited all this anger. She knows exactly what she's doing. Look how nice those ladies are. I imagine you would not be that nice and I certainly would not be that nice. So but she was not without her defenders. A couple people stood up and defended her. But here's the board member, Keisha Hamilton herself, trying to explain. What I expect and hope that we as individuals

who respect the Constitution and each other's rights under it would do is to one, learn to ignore tweets that are disagreeable to you. Two, fully read the tweet and attempt to understand it. Three, choose to be a part of the solution so that in time, the tweet can no longer be factually true. We have to ask ourselves, what are we angered over? The fact that it was said or the fact that it is true? My God. And she's not yet booted off of the board. I don't know that she will be. She's completely doubling down, saying this is her constitutional right

and she will not be gaslit by people telling her it's other than as she said. Yeah, I mean, I could almost kind of, you know, get behind the idea that like, hey, we have freedom of speech and we can tweet anything we want to. But I mean, just imagine I'm sure she would be making that same defense if somebody on the school board was tweeting out how great whiteness is, you know, like I'm sure I'm sure that would be her exact take. Well, you have a right. Hey, we can disagree. It's look, I mean, the real problem that we have with in these cases is public sector unions, which are just monstrosity and should never exist. There should never be such thing

as a public sector union. The basic idea of unions is like, so there's an employer who wants to pay his workers as little as he can pay them. And there's workers who want to get paid as much as they can. But if one worker stands up to negotiate the boss's money or his salary, he's kind of disposable. But if we all get together, we can negotiate from a stronger position. That's all fine and good. But when you have public sector unions, you have basically a politician using taxpayer money who is not incentivized at all to pay you less. It's not his money. It's like, whatever.

I don't care. He's just incentivized to give you more money. So he has a voting block buying for him. And then a bunch of government workers all pooling together to argue for more. So it's basically impossible to fire these people. And it makes it very, very difficult to get people out of the system who are really awful. On the school board, they need to boot her by vote. And I imagine she will be booted by vote the next time. But this is horrific. I mean, think about it. You raise a good point.

Imagine if this were a white person saying how terrible and evil blackness is. I mean, they'd find a way to boot that person immediately. They'd be fired on the spot. But because she's saying, oh, no, it's, you know, whiteness really is the problem. And if you don't get it, you're part of the problem. It's OK. Yeah. And it's kind of like we all have this. I think decent people all almost have this, this individualist agreement that we make that it's unfair to lump people into these collective racial categories. Um, because individuals aren't responsible for what everybody in their racial group does. You know, if I, if I get mugged in a bad part of town by a group of black kids, I can't just say,

oh, this is blackness or these are black people's fault, because that's pretty unfair to like my neighbor who's a black dentist, you know, who like he's like, I don't know, I didn't mug anybody. What do you mean? And so we kind of all decent people accept that. But this is now become like the collective guilt of white people has become so dominant in academia, on school boards, in in corporate media, in politics in general, that they they really are. It's the second worst thing about it. The first worst thing is this is just horrible. The second worst thing is that

they are actually creating the far right reaction to this that they've always claimed was there. The whole rise of like the alt right and the kind of white nationalist movement. This was all in response to the rise of woke ism. young white kids, particularly young white straight men who are like constantly told that they're the only group that it's okay to demonize like this to kind of say, Hey, F you I'm fine. If you're playing this game, then I'm playing the same game here. And it's almost like the responses that they, they write themselves. It's like, Oh, everything whiteness is toxic. It's like, okay, so then why do you want to live in the United States of America? Why don't you get as far away from whiteness as you can?

Like, why do you, you know what I mean? Like, it's just like- Yeah, no, they're playing a dangerous game. This is a very dangerous game. And it's highly consequential. Like we mock the M&Ms thing because it's absurd. But this whole era, like this whole category of argument is dangerous when looked at writ large woke ism. Like that woman is creating more racists by the minute. Imagine having a child in that

school district and understanding this is the woman who's helping to set policy about what my kid's going to read, what the teachers have to read, what the lesson plan looks like. I mean, it's easy to say I'd get the hell out of there, but it's not that easy for most people. Yeah. I think that, um, me and you are probably fortunate enough that we can, uh, get our kids out of environments like that. I know last time I was on the show, I w we were talking about you pulling your kids out of, out of the school they were in, in New York and stuff because of this. So like, yeah, yeah. And, and, but the, a lot of these people just simply don't have the, the option. I mean, a lot, a lot of these guys, I mean, right now, you know, if you're, if you're making, I, I've, I don't know exactly off the top of my

head what the average, uh, um, uh, households, uh, like the, the median income is, I think it's something between like 66, 70 grand a year or something in that, in that area. I mean, with today's inflation, you know, imagine, you know, you're a family or something in that in that area. I mean, with today's inflation, you know, imagine, you know, you're a family of four and you got an income of 70 grand for your family and you're paying property taxes for your your local public school. You can't afford to pay for double schooling. You can't you know, you don't have the option to pull your kids out and put them into private school. If you're both working jobs, you don't really have the option to homeschool. I mean, a lot of these people are stuck and there's nothing else they can do than show up at these

these meetings and try to speak their piece. And so it's it it's just I can't imagine what what it would be like to be in that situation and know that these are the people in authority positions in educating your children. And then you find out you've got a rabid racist sitting on your school board who hates white people. And by the way, she's not the only one. Here's a fellow board member, Myesha Jones, defending Keisha Hamilton. And Jones is also, oh, she's just in a, she's okay. Hold on. My team's clarifying. She's defending the school board member, but she's, they are defending this because she as well thinks there's no problem in it here. Listen. So I want to help educate some of you. She's going to educate.

Nowhere in Keisha Post did it say anything about white people. Not your white mother, not your white self, not your white daughter, and not your white son. We're not talking about a person. Whiteness, okay, listen closely, whiteness is the system, the ideology, the belief, the thought that because your skin is white, you are superior to black people. What you educated me on there, madam, was your ignorance of the facts and your racism. Because if you look at Keisha Hamilton's posts, as I pointed out earlier, they explicitly do call out white people. Not that's necessary.

The attack on, unquote, whiteness is plenty. All right. We're there. Despite the window dressing, you now want to put on it. But secondly, as I just pointed out, Dave, Keisha's posts say to the black man who's going hiking alone, more dangerous are any white folks you may see on the trail, be safe. How is that not calling out white people? Because she used the term, folks, do your homework, madam, before you get up to the microphone and try to lecture the community on what kind of a threat this board member does or does not pose. And good for those women who had the nerve to stand up in the face of that kind of thinking and say the truth, which is this is an outrage and that board member should be fired yesterday. Yeah, I mean, it's just so ridiculous anyway, even if she hadn't said white folks and the idea of, you know, if I was describing how evil blackness is, I go, what? I never said anything about black people, just blackness. You know, that's that totally fine. It's just it's just so absurd. It's like you can't even believe they would use this defense. And, you know, again, the problem with this like collectivizing of an entire racial group of people, it's just as I was saying before, you know, like if you get mugged by a

black guy blaming all black people for it, well, the problem with that is, number one, you're blaming a whole bunch of people unfairly. Number two, you're not being specific about what actually caused the problem. And then we don't know who to punish and how to solve the problem. So if you want to tell me that there are systems in America that oppress black people, I don't disagree with that. I would argue that probably one of the primary ones is the public school system where you have these kids graduating and they can't read at a third grade level. You can make lots of arguments about what systems there are that hurt black people. I would, by the way, also argue that gun control really oppresses people who live in high crime

neighborhoods. The criminals all have guns and now they're completely disarmed and they can't defend themselves. And they have to rely on police for that. And the power is completely taken out of their hands. I'd also argue that welfare has really destroyed the black community, as well as many poor white communities. But to just label that system as whiteness. And then what do we even mean by the system? The system? What do we mean, our entire society? Do we mean our government? Do we mean specific government policies and not other ones? It's just that this is the problem where you're so vague that you're not even saying anything, and you're just blaming an entire racial category for it. I don't know. If we're just describing the system so broadly as

meaning everything, then yes, the system has done some things to oppress groups of people. It's also given a lot to those groups of people. You also are way better off living in a first world country in 2023 than about 99.9% of humans who have ever existed. Yeah. Well said. The whole thing is so fiery. My God, I've had a lot of emotions in this segment. We've laughed. We didn't cry, but there was like near tears maybe by Steven. We've had anger. We've had it all, Dave Smith. It's always a pleasure and it's always interesting. That's what I love about you. Thanks for being here. Oh, thank you so much. I was glad to be back. I really enjoyed it. All right. We'll do it again. Coming up next, Dr. Deborah So comes on to respond to Amy,

our viewer, our listener, Amy, who called in. We'll get you up to speed next on how to fight transgender ideology once it's been stuffed down your child's throat. And before you know it, she's run away with it. She's gotten away from you and she's now in her mid twenties and you're not sure what to do. Real answers up next. Our next guest is here to address a question we got from a caller last week, asking for advice on issues her 23 year old daughter is facing. Dr. Deborah So is a neuroscientist who specializes in gender, sex, and sexual orientation, and she is the author of the must-read The End of Gender,

debunking the myths about sex and identity in our society. Welcome back to the show, Debra. Great to have you. Hi, Megan. Thank you so much for having me back. I'm so excited to talk to you. Oh, likewise. You're so smart on all of these issues and have such good practical information. We knew where to turn. So just background for the viewers who were not with us when this happened last week, Dr. Leonard Sachs came out. He has written Why Gender Matters and all sorts of books on gender. And like you, believes there are two genders and they're not easily exchanged, forgotten, dismissed, and so on. And he's written a lot on it. And we took calls from the audience members at the end of his interview. And one of our listeners named Amy called in with a heartbreaking question. And Dr.

Sachs, who's great, we love him, gave an honest answer for him. He wasn't able to help her. It was beyond his area of expertise. It was a sad moment, but we knew we could find somebody who could answer it. And hence, you're on. But here is that exchange for listeners who missed it. My child's 23. I had a lot of stuff going on 10 years ago. Tried to be the best mom, but now I'm the mom of one of those kids that's having a lot of these issues.

Too much Instagram at the time for her. Overweight, depressed. Three years ago, she came to me and said she's gay. Her girlfriend now went through a bunch of anorexia stuff in high school, is now even thinking of affirming to being a male. And I support my child. I love my child. I will do anything for her. And I just want to know, is there anything I can do now, 10 years after this accident? That is my most feared question. I have a lot of strategies that I can share with confidence if the child is 10, 12, 14, 16 years of age. And I share them with confidence because I've seen them work.

At age 23 or a young woman, I'm at a loss. I'm not the best person for you to ask. I have very little to offer that I'm confident will be effective. And by the way, Dr. Sachs in that interview does lay out some of those strategies for the younger ages. If you start to see somebody getting pulled into this, as does Deborah. So in her book, Abigail Shrier does as well. But what what about this situation, Deborah? Like the 23 year old, they're almost fully cooked.

They've flown the coop. They're no longer in your house every day. And now in this woman's case, the daughter's trying to say that she thinks she's a boy, she's a man, and the mother isn't exactly buying it. Yeah, it's such a heartbreaking call. And it's so typical, I would say, in terms of what I have been hearing from families who are going through this in terms of things that the child is presenting with. So I want to start by saying that I don't do clinical work anymore. I'm basing my opinions on the scientific research, on conversations I've had with my colleagues who

do work with these patients who have gender dysphoria. Also conversations I've had with families who are going through this and discussions I've had with the transitioners. So people who have socially and in many cases medically transitioned and then realized that that decision was not actually right for them. And they've since detransitioned and returned to living as the sex they were born as. So, I mean, once the child is adult age, like you said, the parents are really, their hands are tied tied there's not really anything they can do and I would say even for children nowadays what will happen is the state or agencies will come in and will actually help to facilitate a transition even if the parents are

not on board with that and you have things like sanctuary states becoming more prominent in which a child can actually be taken by an adult to that sanctuary states such as California. And if they decide to transition, even if transition is not supported in the home state, the authorities cannot go after them and California will not prosecute either. So in terms of my advice, I obviously haven't met this caller, Amy. So I can't unfortunately speak to the specifics of her case. But what I would say is, so for your audience, I'm sure they know, they've heard us talk about this last time I was on your show. But rapid onset gender dysphoria, this is a phenomenon in which young people, predominantly

girls and young women, are coming out as transgender, often very much out of the blue. No previous history of gender dysphoria. In some cases, they're quite comfortable in their bodies as girls, young women, they in some cases go through puberty and actually like that they have a more feminine body. But there are other factors that come into play, you know, sexism, history of sexual trauma, if they are on the autism spectrum, if they are lesbian, and not quite comfortable with their sexual orientation, eating disorders, other mental health issues, personality disorders, anxiety, depression.

So all of these things, or even I would say just not really feeling like they are a typical girly girl or being gender nonconforming, they think that life would be better for them as male or as a third gender. And as you said, I am firmly of the belief, based on the scientific research, there are two genders, there's no such thing as being a third gender or non-binary. So what I would say is, I think therapy can be very helpful. I would say if a parent is in this situation to and this is very common also the relationship between a parent and the child tends to be strained and so that's why the child initially will go onto social media go onto the internet trying to make sense of the way that they're feeling

and they don't necessarily have that that support where they can go to a trusted adult so what happens instead is they come across gender ideology on the internet that tells them basically for anyone who is uncomfortable within their body, which is very common, especially for young women, or maybe they don't like being sexualized by society. They see these images on social media and they think, that's what I'm supposed to look like. That's how I'm supposed to behave. I'm supposed to be very sexual and enjoy that sexualization.

If they don't, they think, well, I must not be female. And so I would say for, say, a child who has a stronger relationship with their parents, they can go to the parents and talk to them about what they're feeling. And especially, I would say for young women going through puberty is, I mean, I have not so great memories of the process myself. And, you know, it's not only is your body changing you know the way society looks at you is changing and these are all very normal feelings to have i would also say menstruation menstruation is again not the greatest funnest thing to be going through but that's just a part of womanhood and i would say it's something that we as women should actually be proud of that we have the capability to carry children and so all that is to say, I think therapy with the parent and the

child together will be helpful. I'll go into my suggestions in terms of how to find a good therapist. But I would say therapy together would be quite helpful. And then I would also say therapy for the child with the therapist alone, like one-on-one therapy would probably also be helpful if possible, because you want to work, I would suggest, again, this is just my opinion, I would suggest you want to mend that relationship as much as possible. And then also for the child, if they are struggling with their sexual orientation or other mental health issues, there are probably things that they want to or would benefit from talking about with a therapist that they don't necessarily want their parents in the room, listening to them talk about these issues at the same time. So that would be my suggestion. In terms of finding a good clinician,

that is going to be another challenge, unfortunately. Yeah, well, yeah, because of so-called conversion therapy bans. So in the US, you guys have this in 25 states where they have activists have been very smart to conflate gender identity with sexual orientation. So sexual orientation cannot be changed. So if someone is gay or bisexual, they can't be made to be straight. But gender identity is different.

It can change over the lifespan, especially in children. And so what happens now is clinicians are terrified to question anyone who comes in saying they have issues with their gender or that they're experiencing gender dysphoria because they can potentially have their license taken away. You know, in Canada, we have now a new law where a clinician can be imprisoned potentially for up to five years if they do not affirm so you have clinicians who are understandably intimidated and that is not that also i mean it goes without saying that the activists if they find out they will go after this person and try to ruin them both professionally and in terms of their personal reputation so you have that um and then also i would say

if you can be open to telehealth so just because a clinician is not necessarily operating in your state or your country doesn't mean you aren't able to find good help. I would say look at a prospective clinician's social media, look at their publications. You don't necessarily have to read the whole thing because I know it's often fine to pay well but if you can it's helpful to get a sense of what is their approach are they woke are they buying all this gender ideology it's difficult for parents to really know what goes on in the room during therapy because clinicians the woke ones will lie they will outright lie to parents and say oh we I'm definitely going to address your concerns and all this comorbidity. And the minute the parents not there, then they turn around and they affirm the child.

They'll say to the child, right. OK, now that your parent is gone, we're going to talk about what you want to talk about. When you say what I would say, what what country could they go to? I mean, Canada is no better than the United States. Like, you don't want to go to like Iran. You know, we don't want to overcorrect. But what are the countries where the standard is not to just affirm, affirm, affirm, where you might get actual, measured, caring, smart advice? I would say it's about the individual clinician more so than the country. And you want to try and find a clinician who's more experienced, probably closer to retirement. So they are less, they are not buying into the woke ideology. They're more confident in their practice. And they also don't care if they get fired because they're close to retirement. And that's just the unfortunate

reality about it. So I would also say because younger clinicians, because they are less experienced, if they are less experienced, if they're newly licensed, they're more afraid of losing their license and all that they worked for. They've gone through grad school. They probably have lots of debt. They just want to be working. And they probably also are not as sure what the right thing to do is with their patients in terms of is it actually okay to question? Because what they're being told from pretty much everybody except for bigots like me is that unless you affirm a person a child or an adult is at a high risk of dying by suicide so they're very scared and i've had many conversations with them they actually don't know even if they read the scientific research they say well i don't know is this outdated and when

you have all the professional bodies and scientific papers telling you that that research is outdated and you shouldn't listen presenting with, most will be open to having a phone call. So you can, as a parent, call and try to get a sense of what that person is like, what type of approaches do they use. But it can be tricky. I would just say definitely if they're not openly screaming about wokeness and affirmation, probably more likely that they're politically neutral or a little bit more reasonable. Not always, but that's been my sense. This is so crazy. So crazy that we have to try this hard to try to get good medical care. I mean, that's what we're talking about, good medical care. Thank you for that. And I hope that's helpful to Amy.

I hope you're listening and I hope that's helpful to you. The joint therapy sounds like a wonderful start. The rebuild trust between the two of you. Maybe she'll start listening to you and individual therapy for you too. For you too, girl, like me. I've been going for years and I highly recommend it. It's a gift you give to yourself. While I have you though, Deborah, I've got to ask you because I read your piece that

you recently posted in the Washington Examiner. And it was such an eye opener for me. We had covered that 17 year old girl at the YMCA in California who was horrified to see a male penis whipping by her as she tried to get changed in the women's locker room. And the YMCA said, well, too bad. It's a trans woman and you're going to have to deal with it. And eventually was like shamed into kind of giving the 17 year old a mild apology, but they're not going to change anything. And you raised such a good point, which I knew I had forgotten, but I knew from our interview, this is from your piece. It is important to mention that transgender women typically go to great lengths to look like women. They would not feel comfortable displaying a nude preoper legitimate trans people who we should be supporting and and sort of they are people who we should be somewhat suspicious of yes and just i want to just follow up with one final thing for

parents listening regarding what we were just talking about be there for your child even if the child wants nothing to do with you because at some point if this was not the right choice for them they will decide to detransition. They need all the support they can get because all of their friends, so-called friends, all the professional support that they had while they were trans, they will lose. And so if you are there, they don't want anything to do with you. Yeah, I think that's important. But with regard to my piece on the Washington Examiner, definitely, I mean, I was so horrified because I was thinking this is doing such a disservice to women and girls in terms of their physical safety, but also to trans people who would. that you are in a space that is designated for the opposite sex i just don't see a transgender person doing that because that's highly disrespectful and it's also gender dysphoria

inducing in them i think this is something that uh exhibitionists would do someone who finds it sexually arousing to expose themselves to unsuspecting people this is something that voyeurs would do um rapists and pedophiles i mean it's it's actually it boils my blood to think about the fact that a minor had to experience something like this. And so definitely, if you are in, I'm just saying for people listening, if you are in a space and you see someone who looks very much like a man, and especially if they're showing male genitalia, that is not a transgender person. This is probably someone who has a course of sexual interest, someone who is a predator, and they should not be allowed in women's spaces, and they should definitely not be allowed around the world. Exhibitionist voyeurs and child predators are being handed a ticket to paradise talking about your field of expertise and how so many of sex offenders

are never arrested. They get away with it. And we need to be aware that they're out there and that a lot of them will take advantage of this sort of woke, be tolerant of everybody to take advantage of your child. You. We have to be vigilant. I'm sorry, but we do. Debra So, we need a longer conversation. Would you come back again soon so we can talk more? I would love to, anytime, Megan. Great to see you. All right, don't forget, the name of her book is The End of Gender, well worth your time. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. show no bs no agenda and no fear