The Megyn Kelly Show - Don Lemon Allegedly “Screamed” at Co-Host, and a Must-Hear Debate on the Alex Murdaugh Trial, with Jesse Kelly, Vinnie Politan, Steve Gosney, and Amy Hamm | Ep. 486

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Jesse Kelly, host of “The Jesse Kelly Show” and “I'm Right" on TheFirst, to talk about Disney trying to turn American’s youth into social justice warriors, the latest on the Chinese spy balloon, Hunter Biden attempting to take legal action against computer repair shop owner, what led Don Lemon to allegedly scream at co-host Kaitlan Collins behind the scenes at “CNN This Morning," and much more. Then, attorneys Vinnie Politan and Steve Gosney join for a must-listen debate on the Alex Murdaugh trial. Plus, Amy Hamm, a nurse educator based in Canada, joins to discuss how she may be losing her nursing license for believing that biological sex is real, how gender ideology is impacting the safety and rights of children, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Hunter Biden demands a criminal probe into the laptop he spent the last few years telling us wasn't even his. Now he's super duper angry that people are spreading around his private information. This guy, is he still on drugs? What is happening? How? I love the news. I love being in the news business. And this is the kind of story. Why? Like, we just spent how many intelligence officials? It's disinformation, no, right? Now he's filing lawsuits for the dissemination of his private information,

including against the legally blind computer repairman who had it as abandoned property to begin with. That's how we first got our hands on it. You can't make this stuff up. Okay, in other news, we'll get to Don Lemon reportedly getting in trouble for screaming at his female co-anchor, Caitlin Collins. We've got the tape that was reportedly the center of the dispute. And we'll tell you what CNN is saying about it. And we've got a new example of Disney trying to turn America's youth into social justice warriors. This goes back to the

like, don't just sit your kid in front of the TV. It is not Mr. Rogers anymore. Abby shaking her head. Yes. She's got two little girls. They're very young. She thought she could put them in front of what was it? Red Panda turning red, whatever. Now, next thing you know, her two year old's getting a lecture on periods. Be careful. Beware the mouse. Joining me now to discuss it all, Jesse Kelly, host of The Jesse Kelly Show. And I'm right. Jesse, welcome back. Great to have you. Megan, I feel like this is going to make me sound old, but I have two boys too. And I know exactly what Abby is going through because I used to, like when I grew up, when we we were kids I remember the cousins would come

over to the house on Friday night and the parents would eventually kick us all downstairs and we're all done and we would turn on ABC I'm almost positive it was ABC thank God it's Friday ABC and we would sit and watch Full House and Family Matters and all these shows that were just normal families and they taught you values don't steal, don't lie, that kind of a thing. And I feel like I'm not that old, but man, I would never do that with my sons now, not in a million years.

You couldn't. You're 100% right. My little guy, Thatcher, he's nine. He was just asking me, mom, what's your favorite television series ever? And he was looking specifically for a series. And first I said The Practice, because I absolutely love that by David E. Kelly. I could watch that over and over and over.

But then I corrected myself. I said, actually, my favorite ever was Little House on the Prairie. I watched it my entire childhood. And then he said, how long did you watch it? And I said, I got to be honest, I watched it through my young 30s. I was practicing law in Manhattan. It was like a stress reliever for me. I'd put it on. And it is. It's just like good values and good stories and sort of reinforcement in a family of family values. You know, it's crazy what they're putting on television today. It's insane. Honestly, the commercials are worse than what the listen to how old we sound. But it's true. the commercials are as bad as i'm tipper gore on the actual team and i i think part of this is just i want to go back to that america where and it's not that i want to park my kids in front of the tv all

day i would like it to be an option that i've got to go do some chores around the house i can't watch it yeah can i leave you there for an hour i would never do that now i'd rather leave them with a table saw it's so true wait a minute we might as well just go to that story because we're on it and it's shocking it was being tweeted around today um and let me just make sure i have my facts correct okay so it's on the disney channel it is a show called the proud family louder and prouder which is a reboot from The Proud Family, Louder and Prouder, which is a reboot from a series that first launched back in 2001. It hit Disney Plus in early 2022. So season two just dropped. It's got 10 new episodes, and it's about a girl named Penny Proud and her family. All right. So this is supposed to be, according to Disney, laugh out loud stories while highlighting culturally specific experiences of the black community and addressing universal topics.

Well, OK, here's a little snippet of what Disney Plus is offering our children now as just a quick, quick look at, let's say, America. This country was built on slavery, which means slaves built this country. Tilled this land from sea to sea to sea. First there was rice, tobacco, sugar cane. Then Whitney did his thing and cotton became cane. And we were its soldiers, four million strong. Fighting for America's freedoms even though we remained America's slaves. Built this country.

The descendants of slaves continue to build it. Slaves built this country. And we, the descendants of slaves in America, have earned reparations for their suffering. And continue to earn reparations every moment we spend submerged in the systemic prejudice, racism, and white supremacy that America was founded with and still has not atoned for. We made your families rich. From the southern plantation heirs. To the northern bankers.

To the New England ship owners. The founding fathers. Former presidents. Current senators. The Ill. To the New England ship owners. The founding fathers. Former presidents. Current senators. The Illuminati. The New World Order. Slaves built this country. We had Tubman.

Turner. Frederick D. Then they say Lincoln freed the slaves. But slaves were men. And women. And only we can free ourselves. Emancipation is not freedom. Jim Crow segregation redlining public schools feeding prisons, where we become slaves again.

As we celebrate Juneteenth. For the umpteenth time. Our account is still outstanding. Because this country was built on slavery, which means. Slaves built this country. And we demand our 40 acres and a mule. You can keep the mule. Keep the 40.

We're taking our freedom. Oh my God. You know, Megan, this goes to something that I think actually the right, if I can speak at least briefly for the right, has failed on, and I volunteer that I am very much part of this,

I've been part of this, for how many years has the right said things like, some idiot actor or actress will get up at the Oscars and give some part of this i've been part of this for for how many years has the right said things like it was some idiot actor or actress will get up at the oscars and give some crazy left-wing political speech and we'll say something like no one cares what uh george clooney thinks or lebron james will say something stupid but no one cares what lebron james thinks that's not true at all if you go look at the following of these people there are millions and millions and millions of people who do care entertainment is actually a critical cultural pillar. Look, they were putting on

plays in Roman times. We have TV now. It's part of guiding your culture for what you want them to be and what you don't want them to be. It's just more than anything, this is a reflection of what our culture has become. Just a big bunch of grievance-mongering whiners. Everybody has something they hate about America. America sucks because of this, and it sucks because of that. And again, they're started when the kids are as small as can be. This is on Nickelodeon Junior.

It's not just Disney+. Kids platforms across the board, they're all this filth now. This is filth. This is absolute filth. Reparations, and we still want reparations. Systemic prejudice, racism, white supremacy still hasn't been atoned for. We made you rich. I mean, the anger that they put in the mouths of these little kids. Meanwhile, as if any little kid walking around America today is like, we want reparations. They're trying to plant these ideas early. Think about how crazy this is. Somebody like you've been on the Manhattan Negro scene. That's about as cutthroat business world as cutthroat business world gets.

How crazy is it, Megan, that Disney is coming fresh off a year where board members, CEO got the ax. Board members are sitting there looking at profit loss sheets showing $140 billion gone. Imagine having to present that to your board and how you're going to turn that around. And after all that, for all those losses, they choose to double and triple down on everything that has turned off American families. It's honestly a little bit scary if you think about it. How many high-powered jobs there are that operate with no regard for their job or no regard for the fiduciary responsibility

to the shareholder at all. It's all activism all the time. It's crazy that this is allowed to go on in the boardroom. It's like they're trying to make these children hate America, hate America. It's literally the opposite of what you get in China, where it's like mandatory nationalism, mandatory, you know, homage to the flag, which pieces of it are appealing. This is the opposite, trying to make them hate the country from a very tender age. And honestly, just the racism of it. OK, so this is a this is a channel that's supposed to appeal, I guess, to black families. What black families? What are they just assume black families all hate America?

I want to talk about demand reparations and how we haven't made it past slavery. Who are the black families they're hanging out with? Well, that's actually a good question, Megan, because this is a big problem we have in that America is so divided now. Now, that's a very common thing to say. We're divided. We're divided. But let me explain for a say. We're divided, we're divided. But let me explain for a second. We have urban America. You know, you have L.A., New York, Chicago. And I love

those cities, actually. I have a blast in all of them. But they are very, very separate and very different from the values of the vast sea of the land of America. If you look at like a congressional map of America, it's all red. You look at it and think, wow, that must be the flyover country. Therefore, there's no equal representation of values anymore on television because none of those people have any connection to how normal people live or what normal people go through. That's the truth. That's exactly right. They really need to get to flyover country like that Chinese balloon. Can you believe this? The Chinese have been in flyover country more than the executives at disney what's that the most bizarre story isn't it it's so bizarre that we have now 24 plus hours

i believe they've known about it for 48 plus 24 plus hours of reporting on it. Why are we still reporting on a spy balloon? Why is this news whatsoever? How have we not shot this down? The Chinese didn't do this on accident. The Chinese are very clearly doing this on purpose. They didn't give a whoopsie. Whoops, we spilled our satellite in your airspace. They did this on purpose. They knew we would see it. They knew we would know about it. They're very clearly thumbing their nose at us, seeing if we'll do anything about it. And honestly, every second we wait matters a lot. Now, we look so pathetic. It should have been instant Chinese spy satellite vaporized. But instead, we look like we're going to hand-ring about this. We better

consult with our State Department people who went to Harvard about what does the book say is the smartest thing? Shoot it out of the sky. It's a message. Even the information it's collecting up there is not as damaging as the message this is sending to the Chinese Communist Party that we're too pathetic to actually guard the airspace of the United States of America. This is how this crap begins. It begins small like this and it ends ugly. That's a very good point. Honestly, the thing is as big as three buses. So you're right. They had to know that we would see it. And as somebody who owns property in Montana, yeah, I object. I object. I liked your idea. I saw on Twitter, you said something to the effect of, no, we shouldn't shoot it down. People should line up and moon it. I'm going to go to my little cabin in Montana, put a big middle finger on the top of it, or maybe I'll put a picture of the Uyghurs or something that'll irritate them. This is obnoxious. And of State, is about to go over there and meet with the Chinese leader.

But this is absurd. He's thumbing the middle finger at us, and we're just cowering, saying, okay, okay, do what you want. Of course, it's a leverage move over Blinken, too. I had the exact same thought. As soon as I saw it, I was like, wait a minute, isn't Blinken going over there soon? As soon as I confirm that this is clearly one of those things where you're doing something prior to a business meeting or a merger or something like that, where you kind of try to Tommy Topper the guy on the way in the door to gain a little bit more leverage. That's all this is, is leverage. Isn't that a great thing? And they've done this to us ever since Biden got elected. Remember, as soon as Biden got elected, they sat, we had to go send Blinken, that idiot, up there to sit down with the Chinese at that meeting. And they said,

you have no authority here. You have no power over us here. They immediately started talking down to us as soon as China Joe and his son Hunter took the reins of power. And I still make a connection, Megan. And I know maybe I shouldn't make that connection, but I make a connection that China very clearly has blackmail information on the Biden family. Hunter, most definitely. We basically know that by now. You're telling me that doesn't ever go into Joe's mind or never goes into his consideration whenever China is once again tiptoeing up to that line, seeing where it is for us. I bet you money that backs him off sometimes. It takes me off. Now, my crack team is telling me

we just got this in that Blinken just postponed his trip. So that, ha ha, take that. We postpone it. But meantime, you got the former Secretary of Defense, Mark Esper, on TV today saying, OK, well, maybe I would try

to negotiate something or diplomatically resolve this. But here's what I would have done immediately after that failed. Listen. I'm surprised by this. I think it is a brazen act by the Chinese to do this. My interest would be not necessarily shooting it down, but bringing it down so we can capture the equipment and understand exactly what they're doing. Are they taking pictures? Are they intercepting signals? What are they doing and And what is the level of technical capability?

It will tell us a lot about what they're trying to do, what they're trying to learn. Failing that, I would definitely shoot it down, provided that there's no risk to people on the ground. And so at the political level, we have to push back. We have to defend American sovereignty. And we have to make clear to the Chinese that we're not going to tolerate. Yes. OK, correcting myself.

He wasn't saying negotiate. He was saying, get it so we can see what's on it. And short of that blasted out of the sky. So he's on the same page as you are, but meanwhile, we're doing, um, oh, nothing. That's what we're doing. Nothing. Nothing. We're embarrassing ourselves, Megan. We are doing that. And we're showing ourselves to be weak in front of one of these strong men. Like we've seen how well that's worked out historically, but I will point out something and I don showing ourselves to be weak in front of one of these strong men like we've seen how well that's worked out historically but i will point out something and i don't want to be this guy to point fingers at everybody all right but if you're an american citizen sitting here worried about a chinese spy balloon while you post videos on tiktok may i suggest that you're probably

already participating in a chinese spying program And maybe that is actually more important to you personally than the big satellite hanging over the sky. That is Joe Biden's problem. Inviting China into your home is your problem. That's probably something we could all be a little better at, to be frank. It's not a bad point. It doesn't look like we are going to do anything. But this actually could be potentially compromising. I don't know. They say that in Montana, there's the 341st Missile Wing at Malmstrom Air Force Base, one of three American Air Force bases that operate and maintain intercontinental ballistic missiles. But, you know, our experts are saying they don't think they're getting anything through this balloon

that they couldn't have gotten through a satellite. But even so, what the hell is it doing there? Like it's basically moved in where I'm going to share property taxes with it in the next six months. Well, I think it's got to be more of a message than anything. And I actually grew up in Montana. I know, like you said, you have some land up there. And it's common knowledge. It's not as if, like you just pointed out, they're gaining new information by pictures taking place up above. My old man was driving me past these missile silo locations when we were going deer hunting when I was 15 years old. This is common knowledge that China certainly knows about. If idiot 15-year-old Jesse knew about it, I promise the Chinese Communist Party does. So it's not as if they're gaining important information. That's

why this is clearly just a big up yours. It's a big middle finger. It's what will you do about it, Joe? How far can we push America? And this is this is as they're doing flybys daily of Taiwan. They're basically wargaming Taiwan at Taiwan, which shows you they're gearing up to do something. I think and I'm really bummed out about this for what this might mean. I'm not quite so sure we're going to get to the next two years of Joe's presidency without China popping off on something significant. It's scary. I know, especially with the whole Russia-Ukraine thing and our focus there and our money there and our military assets going there.

So you may be tough on yourself at age 15, Jesse, but I bet at your worst, at your most knuckleheaded, you were not the knucklehead that Hunter Biden is. Your dad, he'd take a Jesse Kelly any day over that son. And the news gets worse and worse. So let me just start with this. This isn't like the thing they're trying to distract from. But I do feel it bears mention that there was a story yesterday that the son of the sitting president was caught on tape, like one of the other things he had on his laptop, asking some assistant to put a camera on herself in the shower so he could get off watching her. He managed to get her into bed. He filmed it.

There's pictures of him like behind her. It's just absolutely every story about him is absolutely disgusting. He's a disgusting, loathsome human being, right? He's what they wanted to make Don Trump Jr. into, but never could. That's what Hunter is. But really, they're worried about the Hunter influence peddling scheme with China. I mean, that's where the real story is. What were they paying him for? What did they get in return? And as that story ramps up, because House Republicans now have control of the House, we get Hunter Biden fighting back. Jesse, he's fighting. He's sick and tired. He's not going to take it anymore. threatening legal action purporting to be trying to get criminal authorities involved potential civil actions

against Fox against the computer repair guy and others. He's really pissed off at Marco Polo. You ever use Marco Polo? That social media app? My one friend Joelle loves it. She's like, MK send me a message on Marco Polo. It's basically just you talking and then you send a video of yourself

talking. You could do the same thing on your iPhone messaging. He's mad about Marco Polo. It's basically just you talking and then you send a video of yourself talking. You could do the same thing on your iPhone messaging. He's mad about Marco Polo because apparently they participated. They posted some laptop contents. Anyway, I could go down the list, but the point is he's trying to look like a tough guy now

and it's a total shift in strategy from what we've had the past three years. What was the date of the New York Post? Posting the laptop, disinformation. Now it's his suddenly, Jesse, and he's the victim. It's starting to smell a little bit like a railroad out of politics job for Joe Biden to me. And this is what I mean by it, Megan.

As soon as I saw that, that he was trying to bring up criminal charges, Tucker Carlson and all kinds of people like that, I thought to myself, this reeks like actually desperation more than anything else. Because think about how much work the federal government has done to cover for the Bidens. This is something people forget about when we talk about Hunter and the laptop. An important thing to understand is the Federal Bureau of Investigation had possession of the Hunter Biden laptop and knew what was on it in

2019. Prior to the election, the Federal Bureau of Investigation knew that Hunter Biden was tied in with his father and knew he had some shady, to put it mildly, ties with hostile criminal actors, foreign actors. The FBI knew this, and they chose to cover up all this information on behalf of the Biden family. This is an FBI cover up. That's the story here. So they cover it up. Then they intercept because they're spying on everybody involved. They intercept the fact that the New York Post is getting ready to run with the story on their cover up. Then they choose to go public with all of it. And then the classified documents began to be found, except they're all being found right now by Democrats. You notice that, Megan? It's

not Republican operatives low crawling into Joe Biden's garage in Delaware and with little pen lights in the middle of the night finding which documents are classified like in the movies. These are all Democrats. It's Biden's people. It'siden's lawyers it's biden's doj it's biden's fbi the same fbi that just covered for him i say that they've run a cover-up for the biden family for so long and the biden's thought they were going to get away with it for so long and now they're very clearly getting a controlled demolition on joe biden's time in office and i think this is just a desperate hunter Hunter Biden that knows he's going to be the one that they're going to use to railroad Joe out of office. How about that for a crazy conspiracy theory? But that's my theory. Well, honestly, it's like Andy McCarthy had a piece that said,

keep your eye on the ball. Don't fall for this, right? This is a sideshow. The president's loser son, actually, he said troubled and unstable. He's not as mean as I am, is beside the point, except to the extent that his supposed business acumen was the pretext for all the money flows. What we need to know is what what did the Chinese believe they were buying? And so why now? Why is Hunter? This lawsuit has absolutely no chance. zero chance. The guy apparently signed a user agreement when he dropped off the laptop with the guy, the computer repair repairman, which everybody does saying, if you leave it here for too long a time, it's abandoned and I can do with it what I want. Otherwise everybody would be holding onto old laptops and old phones and old TVs that they couldn't repair forevermore. They'd never be able to throw them away. So all electronics repair facilities and other facilities like this have agreements like that and the law will protect him. So it was abandoned. And that's why the guy was able to

access whatever he wanted on there. And these arguments Hunter's making against that repairman and others are absolutely specious, meaning absurd to the point where they're absolutely not supported at all. They're frivolous. So why do you do have to ask, why is he doing this? Why? And let me just set it up, Jesse, because just a quick walk down memory lane here, he was interviewed during his book tour about the laptop after the New York post and it tried to publish it. And we were all told, no, no, no disinformation here. He was when I think it was CBS tried to press him very gently on it. Well, one, this is something people do when they're- I know, but you know that this is- I really don't know if the answer is.

You don't know, yes or no, if the laptop was yours? I don't have any idea. I have no idea whether or not- So it could have been yours. Of course, certainly. There could be a laptop out there that was stolen from me. There could be that I was hacked. It could be that it was Russian intelligence.

It could be that it was stolen from me was Russian intelligence. It could be that it was stolen from me. Look, I really don't know. And the fact of the matter is, it's a red herring. It is absolutely red herring. But I am absolutely I think within my my rights to question anything that comes from the from the desk of Rudy Giuliani. And so I don't know is the answer. OK, great. Are we going to get follow up? We're going to get in-depth reporting from all those organizations on how outraged they were that they were lied to? I don't think so. Remember when the press was doing their lovey-dovey book tour thing on his behalf too, Megan, when he was going around doing all these videos and they were all talking about what I think it was CNN talked about, what an inspirational story.

Brian Stelter, when he used to work at CNN, talking about how this is just a real inspirational story, the Hunter Biden thing, and how the Trump people, those dirty Trump people keep lying about him. And they always reference Rudy Giuliani because they think that's somehow going to absolve Hunter of everything. But can we pause for a brief moment on this? On top of being a drug addict and a compulsive liar and everything else you can we pause for a brief moment on this on top of being a drug addict

and a compulsive liar and everything else you can say about Hunter Biden? I mean, the brazen lies in those interviews. I don't know if it was my laptop or not. Come on. Who records all of their crimes, Megan? Now, you're one of these smart legal people. I find it to be the most bizarre thing because I do the best I can to stay on the right side of the law. I've probably flirted with the wrong side that time or two. But you know what I didn't do? Record every single one of them and then save it on a laptop and then drop off the laptop for repairs. The first two steps were dumb enough. But then having recorded every crime I've ever committed, allow me to take the evidence, drop it off at a laptop repair shop, and then just cruise off as if everything's going to be fine. There's something weird here, Megan, almost like he wants to get caught. Does that make sense?

There's something something wrong with this guy beyond just what we can see. I don't know. It is starting to feel like is there a connection between all these classified documents being found at Joe Biden's houses that Hunter Biden had access to? And now him making this move, just like all of it is starting to feel a little too connected and a little too coincidental. I'm starting to get like the spidey sense that we need to dig and we needed to dig hard. And what looked at first like a house hearing that was worthwhile, like we should probe. But I was like, now I'm starting to feel like it's absolutely imperative. Actually, we really need to get to the bottom. Like Comer said, that the head of the oversight committee said,

this is actually getting downright scary. Yeah, well, look, let's go back to the Chinese spy satellite that we were just talking about. Megan, what if I mean, that's Joe Biden's son. I don't know about you, but for my sons, I would commit any number of crimes. I just would. They're my sons. I love them to death. What if the Chinese have extremely damaging information on Hunter Biden? I'm not talking about just some booger sugar with some European hookers. What if they have real, real, real black and white criminal crimes that they have evidence of? What if the Russians do? What if the Ukrainians do? How hard is it for them to get on the phone with Joe Biden and say, hey, we need you to look the other way on X, Y and Z?

Or this information is going to be at NBC News tonight. These are legitimate questions the American people have a right to know. Is the president of the United States of America compromised by our enemies because of his son and his connections to his son. That's not a small thing. It's a big thing. Oh, my God. That's like that is a disturbing thought. My team pulled this up. You were right. CNN's reliable sources. Remember that show briefly pivoted from a show dedicated to bashing conservative media on Sunday to become an infomercial. Not sure who I'm quoting. Otherwise, I would attribute this to become an infomercial for Hunter Biden's new memoir.

This is, I guess, Fox News. As left wing host Brian Stelter gushed, it was extraordinary and breathtaking. Stelter teased the segment about Biden's new memoir, Beautiful Things, I forgot it was called that, by claiming the real human being who differs from the caricature of the president's son would be revealed in the book. Real, real human, beautiful things, extraordinary, breathtaking. Just the name alone, what a bunch of hippie crap all this stuff is. It was really, really breathtaking for Brian Stelzer. And again, this is why I think this whole lawsuit stuff is just desperation. This is clearly a human being. I mean, we look at him like a kid.

At least I do. I feel like he's a kid because he probably screws up so much. He's in his 50s, Megan. This guy's a grandpa, I think, or at least could be at this point in time. So they've covered for him his entire life. His entire life he's used to daddy and daddy's media covering for him. I bet it is quite a culture shock for him to all of a sudden find out he is in real legal trouble. He doesn't pay his taxes.

He's done all these criminal things before. And they want his dad, I believe, they want his dad out of office. I bet he is a little taken aback by the fact it's even possible for him to get in any legal trouble at all. I should attribute that story about the assistant to the Daily Mail that was there. I think exclusive reporting on it. Absolutely disgusting. And at the time for all of this with the assistant and so on, he was, of course course addicted to crack and uh the new york post reminds us had unrestricted access to his father's wilmington delaware home where classified documents uh were improperly stored oh joy all right let me let me pause there you can just marinate on that during

the commercial break and we'll be back in two minutes with jesse kelly who stays with us. Okay, so Jesse, drama over at CNN, the New York Post with quite an exclusive on, first of all, the morning show over there. You're going to be shocked, shocked to learn

is in, I mean, basement dweller territory when it comes to the ratings. It's an absolute failure. CNN this morning, this is from earlier reporting, suffered its lowest week. I think this is as of through January 22nd. Its lowest week since launch, which was only three months ago. They averaged 331,000 viewers. Just for reference, Fox and Friends had nearly a million. Even Morning Joe is up to 760,000, which is good for that show. They're down at 331,000 viewers on that show.

No one's watching. Well, that can really upset the anchors, apparently, because behind the scenes, it's not going much better. According to the New York Post in an exclusive report, Don Lemon screamed at his co-host, Caitlin Collins. According to two sources with knowledge, says the New York Post, Lemon approached Collins following the show's Thursday, December 8th broadcast and unloaded on her in front of staffers as he accused her of interrupting him on air. Quote, Don screamed at Caitlin, who was visibly upset and ran out of the studio uh and it was over reportedly this incident here we've gone back and pulled um the the exchange between the two of them that we believe this was based on from that day of air watch this uh we're told that that we're standing by for the president of the united states It's been 10 months since she's been held in captivity.

830 this morning. I expected to speak at the White House at any moment now. He was briefed. Stand by one second. He was briefed. Do you want to wait? No, I think we should bring in Jonathan Franks. OK, so there was some interrupting.

It happens when you co-host a show. It happens. I hosted a show with Bill Helmer for three years. I was on the air with Brett Baer more times than I can count. And sometimes somebody gets on your nerves. What you don't do is scream at them after the fact. Later you say, oh, we stepped on each other. Oh, it's all about servicing the audience. If you're a professional, if you're a douchebag, you scream at the woman next to you and blame it on her. Yeah. I generally try to avoid

screaming at the various people who work for me around the studio here, Megan. I find it as an adult, it works better if you don't scream at people like their children. But here's your you're supposed to have a good rapport with on the air. Don Lemon doesn't have the talents to continue to bring baggage. The rule number one of employment always is make sure your talent outweighs your baggage because we all have baggage, right? Everyone has something. But Don Lemon is not an interesting person. People forget when Don Lemon had his own nighttime show on CNN, it sucked.

And it sucked so bad for so long, they eventually brought in Cuomo, who was doing the show beforehand to do Don Lemon's A Block. Now, let me explain this to people. When you do TV, A Block is the opening of your show. It goes A, B, C, D. You can do the math from there. A Block is also the most important block because it is the most watched block on your show. So Don Lemon sucked so bad that he was unable to carry the A Block, the most important block of his own show. They had to keep the previous host there to carry the A block with him. Then he gets kicked down to morning time. Now he already got a demotion and everyone knows it was a demotion.

He's only still around because he's a black gay dude and everybody knows it. This is not an interesting person. He doesn't have anything at all funny or or informative to say whatsoever. He's already been demoted, already, frankly, been demoted twice when you consider the Cuomo thing. And now he's chewing out Stanford's. Don, buddy, unless you want to go down to the mail room, which frankly is where you belong. I would make sure I'm minding my P's and Q's if I couldn't do TV. And yet somebody gave me a television show. It's so true. He better be careful because honestly, that shows on its last legs before it even got on its first legs. And I will say Caitlin Collins is a competent reporter.

She's she's somebody I wonder whether the politics have anything to do with it. But she is, if I'm not mistaken, she she was an intern for Hannity at one point. She started off, I think, at Fox. So listen, I don't think she's a right winger at all, but I think she's probably more balanced than Don Lemon certainly is. I mean, you'd have to be and you can sense the tension and they don't have a good rapport at all. And I don't think CNN is interested in getting rid of her. So here's the thing, though. Again, I've co-hosted more hours than I can count with a lot of guys with big egos, appropriately big egos, and never, never have I screamed at a colleague after a co-host or had him scream at me. We've had charged disagreements. Had a charged disagreement with Chris Wallace one time. We were never screaming at each other, and you pick it up

right after. If somebody ever screamed at me to the point where I was visibly upset and ran out of the studio, I would have that person fired. I would make sure that person was fired. And I'll tell you something. If that is true, the New York Post report, Jesse, then I will say that's not the first time he's done it. I will go out on a limb right now and tell you that's not the first time. There will be another woman if the New York Post digs who he's co-anchored with. I guarantee you who's going to come out and say me too,

because if you behave like that toward a colleague with whom you share the air and you share the show, this will not be the first time. So I do wonder. Oh, a thousand percent. You just nailed it. If you are the type of person who views that as being an option to treat a coworker in that way, like that, you just think that that's something that you can do, then you've done it before and you've gotten away with it before. And this is the problem. CNN has let him get away with it before because there are gonna be more.

I guarantee there'll be more. And CNN will have to start admitting, well, we did have this person file a report a couple of years ago. We just chose not to do anything. It'll all come rolling out now that they've been, again, I don't understand why they've been coddling this guy.

There are plenty of people out there, plenty of, there's so much talent out there, television wise, from local to otherwise. Why are you hanging on to Don Lemon? He sucks. Yes. And honestly, there's a lot of great people who are black and great people who are gay. Like you don't, because Don Lemon did say, I'm black and I'm gay, as Jeff Zucker was on his way out. I mean, he actually record. I wonder whether this went to HR. You know, if this,

if his name were Tucker Carlson, they'd be digging through those files right now, right? Like, does CNN have any desire to do that? Will there be follow up? Is he that untouchable that we, you know, whatever he does is no problem?

Here's what CNN is saying. It doesn't certainly sound like they're getting ready to look into his history or ask any more questions. They say to Mediaite, which posted the story and asked for a follow up. The Post's account is wildly overblown and two months old. Well, that's a deflection. We know it's two months old. The original report by the Post said it happened December 8th. Don, Caitlin and Poppy, that's the third co-host, were friends before they were co-anchors and they remain friends today. Again, that's a dodge. What does that mean? Did he do it or didn't he? Did he scream at her to the point where she ran down the hall visibly upset or didn't she in front of staffers? And then media goes on, despite CNN formally pushing back, media can confirm that the events described by the Post are largely true though lemons alleged screaming is being

overplayed okay so let's let's see let's find out because right now uh we're being told that chris licht who is now who's now running the joint was reportedly appalled by his behavior um appalled by his behavior and that actually told him to take the next day off to cool off they say the post at this point caitlin collins wants to be on set with don as little as possible by his behavior. And that actually told him to take the next day off to cool off. Hmm. They say the post at this point, Caitlin Collins wants to be on set with Don as little as possible. So that conflicts with CNN statement that they're still friends. Um, and that's, that's basically where it stands. I don't know, Jesse, I feel like these are the same people who, you know, Don Lemon's out there every, every night when he was on his primetime show, lecturing us about

how we need to be better people. Everybody's a racist. If you voted for Trump, you're a terrible racist white supremacist. And this is how he's treating people. OK, says some a lot of this. A lot of this stuff. Sorry for interrupting, Megan. Don't scream at me. A lot of this stuff comes back to Trump.

I believe I've always believed this, that he created a media bubble, that a lot of these cable news channels were kind of getting stale and dying as people are cutting the cord and they're finding different ways to consume news. And that Trump came along and Trump was love him or hate him. So interesting that he brought eyeballs no matter what. So if you're a dork like Don Lemon and you don't have any talent, you can still go sit down on CNN and talk about Donald Trump for an hour and get ratings because Trump is interesting. So he brings the interesting. And then the second Trump is gone, he's not president anymore. Well, you're still stuck there not being interesting and you can't talk about Trump every single night. I think this has plagued a lot more than CNN and Don Lemon. I think it's killed a lot of them. You spent four

years not getting better, not getting better personally, not getting better as a network, not bringing in new talent, not cultivating people who actually have something to say. You spent four years just screaming Trump, Trump, Trump for an hour every single night. And it brought you ratings and you fooled yourself into thinking you have talent. You don't have talent. Trump's interesting. Now he's gone. Now you're boring. Yeah, you're right. You know, what's interesting about Don Lemon, because I used to I used to know Lemon and actually we used to be kind of friendly. And Trump broke him in the same way he broke CNN and he broke Jeff Zucker and he broke so many broadcasters in particular. He broke him in to the point where like Lemon used to be more sort of, I don't know, like, I remember him once quoting with favor the Bill Cosby message of like, pull up your damn pants, you know, like, come on, like be upstanding, treat family well and all that stuff. Now, of course, we realize that that messenger had problems back then to Bill Cosby.

But then he got wokefied, started casting his judgment on everybody. He was totally on board the woke racism train, no matter what the story was, and became just derisive of half the country. You remember that sneering clip with him, with the guy from Lincoln Project? I think, I can't remember the two guys' names. Wajahat Ali and Rick Wilson. And the three of them like, I can't even spell Ukraine, you know, or Ukraine. They were doing their middle

whatever. It was so pejorative and dismissive of half the country, anybody who supported Trump. And then he went on to say, if you voted for Trump on his show, backed it up on his show that you're a racist if you voted for him. Well, you mentioned a great word, dismissive of half the country. We talked a little bit earlier tonight actually about how they're all in L.A., they're all in New York, they're all in their own little extremely blue areas. And that's why they're making crappy movies and crappy cable shows. And they don't ever speak to normal people. Well, it comes back to them being dismissive of normal people. People will get confused, especially people on the right.

I don't understand. Why don't they want to appeal to me? Why aren't they just staying neutral? Why not try to appeal to me? They despise you. These people are dismissive of you. They despise you. They do mock you.

You didn't go to Wharton School of Business. You didn't go to NYU. You're just some stupid ruble. All you know how to do is farm. You probably can't even spell it. That is how these people view you. They're not trying to appeal to you. They would never try to appeal to you.

The same way you wouldn't try to walk out and reason with the slug crawling across the sidewalk, that's how these people look at you. They would never come try to speak to you, speak to your values, represent you in any way. They look at you as simply beneath them. And that's people feel that now half the country feels that it's not hard, Megan. I know you see it when. The way they speak to you like you're some stupid idiot, anti-science murderer at all times. The country feels that it's ugly. Their rage toward you, you know, anybody who disagrees with them or isn't woke is real. But their outrage so often seems performative, you know, like, is he really that upset about this, that or the other? And he's trying to juice up his ratings. And that leads me to Ilhan Omar and what happened with her and AOC on the House floor yesterday. I'm sure you've seen this.

So Republicans got booted off of the January 6th committee. They couldn't have who they wanted there. And now they're turning it around and they booted. Well, Schiff got kicked off of Intel and Ilhan Omar just got kicked off of Foreign Affairs with a Republican saying she's an anti-Semite, or she certainly at least made a lot of anti-Semitic comments. So bye. Well, of course, underdog AOC rushes to the rescue in, I mean, this is the worst bit of

acting I've seen in a long time. It could be give like, what was it, Ishmael? That everybody used to say was the worst movie ever made. This is Ishmael territory. Here's AOC on the house floor yesterday trying to act like, I don't, you tell me who she's trying to imitate here. Watch, stop 10. Also, one of the disgusting legacies after 9-11 has been the targeting and racism against Muslim Americans throughout the United States of America. And this is an extension of that legacy. There is nothing consistent with the Republican Party's continued attack except for the racism

and incitement of violence against women of color in this body. This is about targeting women of color in the United States of America. OK, we cut the part where she threw her notebook at the end and she really sort of revs up her like preacher accent you know like and then this country whatever okay you're from uh yorktown heights okay which is a lovely suburb in westchester should just stop but what do you make of underdog in to save the day i think the worst mistake she made there actually wasn't the hand motions. The worst mistake she made was the looking down at the speech that she had clearly written in practice

beforehand. If you're going to do the moral outrage thing, this was about women of color, then it really helps if you don't have to go. This is about women of color. That doesn't come off nearly as genuine, but it's true. They do this very, very well. The left in this country, they've really mastered something, and the right, frankly, is so far behind that they don't realize what they're doing.

The toddler that pitches the fit in the grocery store because mom will buy him ice cream sandwiches, and he lays down and starts screaming and yelling, you pick that child, you either ignore that he lays down and starts screaming and yelling. You pick that child. You either ignore that child and leave him there screaming and yelling. You pick him up and whack him on the rear end or you do something. But what you don't do is you don't give him the ice cream sandwiches to calm him down. But the right has been handing out ice cream sandwiches for so long to these people. They've learned there's actually it's clownish as that looks.

You're you're rolling your eyes. I'm rolling my eyes. Everyone's rolling their eyes as clownish as that looks. That has worked for the left for a long time. Just start pounding the table and screaming and yelling. And of course, you got to throw in racist and misogynistic or whatever, whatever word, throw them all in, whatever. Make a bunch of noise. And that has scared Republicans into giving the left things for a very long time. When I see clowns like that and clownish behavior like that, I actually blame the right because you're the one that's rewarded that. Of course, the toddler is still in the grocery aisle screaming. You were rewarded in the last 10 times. Start ignoring him.

It'll stop screaming. What do you make of this kicking Ilhan Omar off of foreign affairs because of her anti-Semitic comments? I support the move. I just don't like the way it was done. I think it was done completely wrong. The right move to do was to kick her off the committee. The wrong move to do was to act like it's because of some comments she made or because she's an anti-Semite or something like that. I'm sure she is an anti-Semite. She hates Israel. Of course, I get that. But that's not why she was kicked off. She was kicked off for revenge. She was kicked off for retribution because they did it to us. I don't like this mealy mouth way of politics where you have to pretend like it was for a different reason. Hey, we kicked Ilhan

Omar off. Why? Because you kicked our people off. Let this be a lesson to you. If you kick our people off again, we'll kick your people off again. If you'd like this game to stop, then stop doing it and we'll stop it. This was about revenge and retribution. I think it looks weak when you kick her off for revenge and then make up some excuse. Well, we had to be nice to Israel. That's not why you kicked her off, so be honest about it. That's a good point. What do they get, Schiff and Swalwell off of Intel? Which I mean, of course that should have happened. I mean, House Wawa was still on. I try never to even talk about him. He's just like one of the most important people in Congress in any event. So now they've what they kicked off, I think, two from January 6th. Now the Republicans have three. So maybe it ends there and they make their point if it continues on forever.

I mean, Congress has changed fundamentally. And I don't know whether that's a good thing or not. Jesse Kelly, you're a good thing. Such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you, my friend, and have a great weekend. Thank you for having me on, Megan. Enjoy your weekend. I'll talk to you soon. All the best.

And I should mention that Jesse and The First are now taking over the new Newsmax slot. You know, Newsmax went away. They didn't struck a deal with DirecTV. The First is going on there. So you may be sad about, Newsmax went away. They didn't struck a deal with DirecTV. The first is going on there. So you may be sad about your Newsmax friends, but the first has people like Jesse Kelly, Dana Lash, a lot of our friends. So you'll love that. Feels like, again, like friends fighting. Not them. They're not Newsmax in the first, but in any event, happy for Jesse in the

first. Up next, the latest on the Alex Murdoch trial. My God, the defense made a terrible mistake yesterday. We'll explain what it was and how they may have just cost their client any chance at an acquittal and go from there. And remember, folks, you can find the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 111. Every weekday at noon east and the full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly. If you prefer an audio podcast, you can follow and download and download Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to go subscribe to our American News Minute. That's our once a week. It's just a once a week email from me with the highlights that you may have missed from

our show during the week and update on Strudwick. You're not going to be happy. You're not going to feel for me. You're going to be happy for me or for Abby. Go check it out. Megan Kelly dot com to sign up. New developments in the Alex Murdoch murder trial underway right now. The court is now considering whether or not Murdoch's

alleged financial crimes can be heard by the jury. Oh my gosh, the proffer of what they would hear was quite juicy. Joining us now on the ground in South Carolina, Vinny Palatine. He's of Court TV and also a public defender out of Florida. Steve Gosney joins us as well. So Vinny, Steve, thank you both for being here. Vinny, you're there. You're covering the trial for Court TV. What happened today? Where is it right now as we meet with you? Well, I'll tell you what happened this morning is the continued proffer of all this information they want to get in front of the jury and really want to demonstrate that there was some motive, some reason why this father would splatter his son's brains in the dog kennel and then hunt down his wife with an AR rifle. So they're trying to

get into what's happening in his whole world in his life that is sort of crumbling, unraveling around him, specifically the financials. He was siphoning money from the law firm. He was making money, not giving it to his partners and to the law firms. That's happening. He's being sued because of his son's boating accident. And that lawsuit could uncover more of his financial misdeeds, which are many. And it really involves a lot of ripping off of his own clients. They're saying $9 million worth of fraud and stealing. It's really unthinkable what he did for all these years as a lawyer. My God, nine. I thought it was like 700,000 and change and nine millions a lot. So wait a minute. And just I should have done this at the start. I just assumed people are familiar with this case and I shouldn't do that because not everybody's been following it. But this guy, Alex Murdoch, is from a very at a law firm and practicing law and had the family dough and the family name.

And then his son, 19 year old Paul, had a boating accident where Paul was allegedly drunk, driving recklessly. And a girl, Mallory Beach, was killed. She was thrown from the boat and killed, leading to a bunch of criminal, potential criminal and civil cases. Trouble, I should say, for the son and the Murdoch family. Fast forward a couple of years, and Paul winds up shot in the head, dead, along with Paul's mother, Maggie, Alex's wife. And Alex is accused of doing it. And one of the alleged motives is that he was stressed out. He was facing the lawsuits. And the day of the double murder, he was accused by his own law firm of embezzlement. So Steve, this, this was a colossal blunder by the defense because before yesterday, correct me if I'm wrong,

we weren't going to hear any evidence of motive. The state's real theory is that he did this to make himself look sympathetic. Um, In other words, he killed his family so that on this other financial stuff, people would be like, oh, poor Alex, you know, oh, you know, he couldn't have, or let's leave him alone or what have you. We weren't supposed to hear any of this. The reason we're hearing all this

behind closed doors right now is because they opened the door. Explain. Well, it may be that, you know, whether they've opened the door or not, the judge has not ruled on that. But yes, the state definitely wants to get in this financial crime stuff because it makes him look terrible. I mean, the guy is obviously hated in the community and for good reason. He's being shown by through his financial crimes as stealing from the

sympathetic characters and just everybody around him closely. The problem from the defense side is that that is not necessarily motive for murder, nor does it prove that he committed the murder. And in fact, what it actually does is it widens the field of people that could be likely assassins on his son and wife. So it's interesting. They haven't quite ruled, but yes, you're right. There was a, an argument by the state that the defense opened the door by asking a deadly question, which is, is there any reason at all that he would kill his wife? And of course, as, as Vincent said here, you know, exactly. I mean, did you? Well, yes, there's this financial stuff.

But I think that the people that I've been chatting to on the kind of the defense side are like, well, what is the nexus between the financial crimes and the murder of his son and wife? This brutal murder. It seems to it seems that it's out of character and not consistent with anything. He can be a thief, but not a murderer. Vinny, what do you make of that? Because the judge, the reason we heard testimony from this financial person at the law firm who uncovered the crime, the alleged crime, is the prosecution said they opened the door. We're going to do character evidence now. It's all in. We'd love to do character evidence. Thank you, Lord. Love that fight. So I put the lady. And so the judge said outside the presence of the jury, let's hear from the financial lady and let's hear about the crimes. And that's what's been going on. So what about that? I mean, why does the prosecution not think tying it together, the financial crimes and a double murder of one's own family? Why do they not think that that's too difficult to tie together? Well, the defense is saying they're not connected. This is just bad character. It prejudices him and it makes the jury perhaps

look at him as a criminal rather than as a father and a husband. But it's about the timing. And I think this is where the prosecution's argument will go. It's a day of reckoning. It's June 7th, 2021. And on that day, he is confronted by the bookkeeper at his law firm about this $700,000 from this big, big case that they won. Him and a couple other law firms were in on it. And he had his best friend, okay, his best friend, who's one of the other lawyers in this, write the check personally to him because he made up this story about putting it into some sort of an annuity. And his friend, no, didn't think twice about it because he knew Alec was super rich. He's a partner in the firm. So sure, I'll do it.

But that whole thing sort of hits the fan when the accountant starts to look at the books and say, wait a minute, we got the expenses, but where are the fees? Where's the $700,000? And so his friend testified against him, again, outside the presence of the jury, could be the best witness in the whole case because he was literally crying on the stand because his best friend had done him wrong. His best friend for money, for money had, you know, done this to his, but it could ruin his friend's law practice. It could ruin his reputation. It could ruin his life. He stole like 192,000 from his friend. So you put all that together. It was really powerful. And if the jury gets to hear it, I think they'll look at Alec Murdoch a little differently. And I think they'll look at June 7th much differently as well,

which is what the prosecution wants them to do. Just a quick question, Vinny. What was the status of the lawsuits connected to the boat accident at the time of the double murders? What kind of pressure was Alec Murdoch facing at that moment? Well, the pressure, and this goes to the next level. This is why it's a slippery slope when you start getting into this evidence. The following week, a few days later, there was going to be an accounting. So they were going to go through Alec Murdoch's financials. And what the prosecution is saying is he was deadly scared of that because this would reveal all that was going on. The fact that he's collecting settlements for clients and not paying the clients. The clients are getting the money. All of this would have been revealed.

What you're saying is that in connection with a civil lawsuit that had been filed against Alex Murdoch, not just the son, Paul. Yeah, they went after everybody. They went after Alex. They went after the son. They went after the brother. They went after everyone. Okay.

So he's facing exposure on that too. Presumably he owned the boat and you would be exposed in the same way as if your teenager. But it wasn't just the exposure to how much money he could lose in the lawsuit. It's that right. The lawyers through the discovery process would go through his financials and then they would uncover all of his criminal fraudulent conduct through the years as they're going through his books. And that's what prosecutors say he was afraid of. My God, it's like what a tangled web. Go ahead, Steve. Well, I'm just saying, looking at it from a little bit more of a defense side,

the problem is, is that he had been stealing from everybody basically for 10 years and was a good old boy and could talk his way out of anything. I know that the state wants to bring this in because it makes him look so bad. So I completely understand that. But it looks to me, this crisis on that day type of argument seems to me to be backing the truck up, right? So it's like, okay, we want to get this in. So how do we justify that? Well, let's come up with this crazy motive. And that's why I'm not convinced that there is a connection or a nexus between the thefts and this this peak of action. Now, of course, the state isn't done yet. So we haven't we can't. Well, let me ask you this, Steve.

Let me ask you this, Steve. If if the son dies, does the civil case go away? I mean, as a practical matter, he was the driver of the boat. He's, you know. No, it does not because it passes to his estate and he was being sued. That doesn't change anything. So what he's doing, though, he's buying time. It's a diversion, right?

So on June 7th, all of a sudden, all eyes in his law firm are on him as what are you doing with this money? Where's the money, Alec? And then that night, boom, all of a sudden everything turns around. Nobody's talking about the money. We don't talk about money. We're talking about Alec and the fact that his family's now being targeted. And they were probably afraid that Alec was a target as well. Then the next day of reckoning, you go flash forward to September and he's getting fired now from his law firm. All this stuff is coming out. And then all of a sudden,

there's another shooting, another 911 call from Alec, this time from the side of the road. I was on that road. There's nothing there. And he calls in that he was the victim of a shooting. And apparently, somehow he shot in the head, but is like, okay to call 911 and survives the whole thing. And again, it's the timing. It's right when the stuff is about to be revealed and all the focus will be on all the bad things that he did. He tries to turn himself into a victim. Oh my God, that sounds exactly right.

I buy that hook, line and sinker scheme. I know, I know. You tie it together with a fake attempt on Alex's life. It makes perfect sense. Why don't you buy it? Well, because it does not seem, Tie it together with a fake attempt on Alex's life. It makes perfect sense. Why don't you buy it? Well, because it does not seem I mean, I've dealt I've done a lot of trials and thousands and thousands of criminal cases and thieves are different than murderers. And it's just out of character for the way he seems to present himself.

And to kill your mother, your wife and your child in a vicious, cold-blooded way is quite, you know, and there is an alternative theory of murder here. There is an alternative theory that has not, I don't think, been disproven by the evidence so far presented, and that is that there was somebody lying in wait for Paul out in this dog kennel, and that after he got done, he went back to the house and this guy came out of the woods with a shotgun, shot the son in the head, picked up the son's AR, shot the wife and then took off. And in fact, there's cell phone evidence, which we're still parsing through it. We haven't heard everything, but that may even be exculpatory to Mr. Alex here.

So I don't know. We haven't heard the whole case, but it's quite a drama. I mean, it is really. Okay. I like that. I like having both sides. But Vinny, if Alex Murdoch is so innocent and it was really just some intruder who came, who was there lying in wait for Paul, who was the one who drove the boat. Why did Alex Murdoch delete 73 calls off of his phone, which they never get deleted off of your cell phone bill? The cops found him. When was the last time you deleted 73 calls off of your phone, which they say he did here?

And then get us into the video and what the two videos are showing now. One we heard, we heard allegedly Alex Murdoch there, and the other one we saw Alex Murdoch there. And the other one we saw Alex Murdoch there about an hour before. Talk about that. Well, there's a couple of things going on here. So Alex Murdoch in his first interview with police that night, that night he is speaking to police in the cruiser. He's in the seat. It's all on video. It's recorded. He describes what he was doing that night. And he said he was, you know, he came home and then he took a nap and then he woke up from the nap in the lodge, in the main house,

and then was going to visit his father, his mother, who was like 18 miles away. And he just drove out and left and then went to his mother's, stayed there 15 minutes and then drove another 18 minutes back and found the murder scene. The problem is, is that there is a video on his son Paul's phone that I'm sure he didn't know about that was played for the jury. He's videotaping the dogs, but you hear three voices in the background. You hear Paul Murdoch, you hear Maggie, and you hear Alec, which puts him at the kennels with the two victims moments before both of their phones cease all activity. All right, stand by, stand by, stand by. Stand by because we have that.

Well, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You never said he was there. Hold on, hold on. Hold on because we have that. Can I just ask quickly, is it Alex or Alec? Oh, here we go. How many viewers are yelling at me saying it's not it's not it's not Alec Vinny. It's Alex. Can you read me? Yeah, it's spelled like that. But he calls himself Alec.

His lawyer calls him Alec. I'm sure his mama called him Alec. So I'm going to call him out. OK, good to know. Good to know. Hadn't had it explained to me yet. Here is that cell phone video to which Vinny Palantir just referred. It's soundbite 13. Get back. Get back. Quit, Cash. Come on. Quit.

Come on. Come on. It's not that bad. Come on, Cash. F***. Post it. Come on. Hey, he's got a bird in his mouth. Baba. Hey, Baba. That's a guinea. That's a chicken.

Come here, Baba. Come here, Gash. Come here, Baba. Gash, quit. Come here, Baba. Come here, Baba. Come here, Baba. Come here, Baba.

Come here, Baba. Come here, Baba. Come here, Baba. Come here, Baba. Come here, Baba. Come here, Baba. Come here, Baba. Come here, Baba. Come here, Baba. Come here, Cash. Come here. Paul Murdoch there was trying to take a video of the dog, Cash, of his tail for his friend who wanted to know if the dog's tail had been hurt. And so you definitely hear three voices on it for sure. And that, uh, that other male voice, Alex Murdoch has like a high voice. Alec has a high voice and there's been testimony Vinnie that

it was a hundred percent him. Yeah. The, the, the, uh, the young man who's like, uh, he described himself as a member of the family, like Alec and Maggie were his second parents. Paul was like his brother. And he was on the phone with Paul and he heard what was going on in the background and he heard Alec's voice there. So now you have Alec lying about where he is just prior to the murders, which is at the scene of the murders. Why do you lie? Why would you lie about that? What time was that video taken in relation to the murders, which is at the scene of the murders. Why do you lie? Why would you lie about that? What time was that video taken in relation to the murders?

That's 8.48, I think is when it's taken, right around 8.48. Or the last phone activity is 8.48. That's like 8.44. Then the last phone activity is at 8.48. And then I think there's one incoming message to Paul's phone at 849. So it's right there in that window of time when he said he was taking a nap. job of laying out this timeline clearly for the jury, or at least for us consumers. And that is that you're right, 844, we have him at those kennels, but there's basically an hour and 22 minute period, which they're saying he committed the murders, went back to the house, disposed of the weapons, disposed of the bloody clothes, went to his mother's house, came back to the scene.

And in fact, there's actually a 15 minute window, which is really operative, in to his mother's house, came back to the scene. And in fact, there's actually a 15-minute window, which is really operative, in which the wife's cell phone was taken off of her, probably after the murder. And the last movement of that phone, which was tossed on the side of the road, was 90612. And his car starts at 90648. So that's about a two-mile distance. So he is starting his car to get in his car at the same time that the phone is being tossed about two miles away. So there's some other issues here. So, okay, let's hear what the Vinny pushback is. Well, I think the defense experts will say it was 906 when it was tossed out, but I don't think the state expert will agree that's the time of the

tossing. This is this whole technology. I didn't realize that they can track whether your phone is vertical or horizontal. And what the defense is going to argue, and they may have a great expert that can say, is when you toss the phone, it should show it's going from horizontal to vertical. I think what the state expert said is that if it's in a certain mode and it's tossed, that won't necessarily record. So that's a point of contention. If the defense is successful in convincing the jury that the phone is tossed at 9.06, then you've got a, you definitely have an issue for the prosecution, but I don't think they're conceding that point. I think they're going to try to dispute it, but we'll see what the jury does with it. They convinced Steve though, didn't they? Well, it's not that I'm convinced. I'm saying that there's a reasonable

doubt. Yeah. Yeah. If the timeline doesn't add up, that's a problem for the prosecution. Although one wonders how accurate these things are. My God, could it couldn't have been off by like 50 seconds or a minute or two? I don't know. Well, see, that's why the car starting time and the phone time are very important, because those you can nail down with some precision. So the last movement of that phone was at the same exact time as he gets in his car. The last recorded, the last movement that they can ascertain. And I think what's the point is going to come up is going to be, if you sort of, you know, when you blank your phone and there's nothing on it, you hit the little button on the right and it's blank. I think what the state expert was saying is if it's in that state and you throw it,

it's not going to record the changing direction of the phone. So maybe the phone is turned off, then he drives a little, then he tosses it. But- All right, wait, let's move on. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. They have to clarify. It's something to keep an eye on. He's got a great point, though. Prosecutors have to be more clear here in the way they're building this case, or they've got to have the most unbelievable closing argument of all time. I was going to say, they'll pull it all together in the closing.

The second video is also very problematic for Alec. It is a Snapchat video of Alec Murdoch taken by his son, Paul, earlier that evening. It's only about an hour. And Paul sent the video to friends at 7.56 p.m., about almost exactly an hour before the murder. I think it was taken a few minutes before that. But it very clearly places Alec Murdoch at the scene it very clearly does that and but the thing that's telling about it is the clothing he he's wearing different clothing than when the cops came why did he change his clothes here's the video stop 14 all right we kind of cut short so there he is wearing a blue short and khakis and vinny that's not what he was wearing later that evening after the murders

no right so the defense makes a big deal that there's you know there should be all this blood on his clothes but he shows up for the interview uh police respond to the scene. He's got shorts and a T-shirt on. That was described as it appeared freshly laundered to one of the first responders who testified. So he's wearing something different. That's clear. So, you know, when did he change clothes? When did he change clothes? Did he change clothes as soon as he got, you know, as soon as he finished with whatever he's doing with that tree? Or did he change clothes? Did he change clothes as soon as he got, you know, as soon as he finished with whatever he's doing with that tree? Or did he change clothes after the murder? And that's the problem. Here's the real problem. Where are those clothes? Where's the khaki and the blue

shirt, right? So if you're innocent, if you're innocent, and I know you don't have to prove anything. I know the defense doesn't have to put a piece of evidence in, but you could really dazzle this jury if you're the defense, if you break out the khakis in the blue shirt and show it to the jury during your case, and there's no blood, there's no luminol, you sent it to the lab and you had it all tested. You could win the case right there. Win the case. So good. That is a great point, Vinny. Steve, he's teeing up some very difficult arguments for you as a defense attorney. Not at all. Not at all. Why is that not a problem?

Well, first of all, it is South Carolina in the summertime and it's he's outside digging around on trees, dirt. Boy, when you get back home, the first thing you do is clean off and wash off and change your clothes. And the Fed, the he's pointing to lack of evidence as evidence against him. Well, that's the state's burden to produce. Now, the idea that this, and I thought the police really lost credibility when they testified that his clothes looked freshly laundered, because there's no way anybody can look at somebody's clothes and say they're freshly laundered. That is a reach. And that shows you that the police have an interest in convicting him. And so I was very skeptical. I thought that was a lack of credibility. They did the same thing when they said that he admitted to the crime, when he said, I done them wrong, when the audio said they done them wrong. And it was clear to me and that the guy sat on the stand. We listened to it

in slow playback. And the fact is, he didn't say that. He said they. And then, of course, the cop, if somebody said I did it, you would immediately write that down and follow up. But they didn't write it down. They didn't note it. So that's another let's make him look guilty today in trial rather than is he actually guilty.

So I'm just saying the state is stretching here. That's why they want to get in all this financial crime evidence to make him look bad, which he looks terrible. He's guilty of sin on that stuff. But did he actually murder his wife and child? Doesn't strike to me. I agree with his attitude, his attitude on the video, on the audio just before the alleged murders didn't sound hostile at all to me. Well, I mean, it wouldn't necessarily, but I agree with you on the point about the cop being like, I'm 100% certain it said, I did them wrong. You shouldn't say that because none of us is 100% certain listening to that tape what it says. It's too garbled. And he didn't need to go that far. And his actions after the fact, the defense did a good job crossing him. His actions after the fact certainly did not suggest he heard that. He didn't write it down. He didn't follow up. Like, I think he's doing some revisionist history there,

but can you expand Steve? Because it does seem like the defense is doing what, what the defense attorneys in these cases often do, which is trying to say they unfair zero zeroed in unfairly zeroed in on Alex Murdoch from the beginning and to the exclusion of all their subjects and like rushed to judgment is what they're going to say. And they were making points on that yesterday talking about why didn't you put out a warning to the community after this double murder that there could be an active shooter on the loose? So what were they trying to do there? Yeah, I'm not certain how strong that is. And we'll see. I mean, we're sort of in the middle of this trial and it's a long trial and there's lots of interesting stuff. Obviously,iting these alternative theories, it is a reasonable thing.

This guy has a lot of enemies and so does his son, including the family and friends of this person that he killed in the boat. So is it possible somebody stood behind and hid and waited until he left and came out and shot the son and took the son's rifle and shot the wife? I think the evidence and everything we've seen so far is entirely consistent with that reasonable hypothesis of innocence. Now, it's the saints bird to disprove. Now, the problem is, can he get a fair trial? Because obviously, this community is done with this guy and done with his

family. And there's all this animosity. He's stolen from everybody. And he's been in power since 1920. This family's been in power. And his guy was the lead partner in a massive firm in South Carolina. So I don't know if he can get a fair trial, but I think it's the job of the prosecutor and the judge to give him one. So I don't know. I'm just trying to raise some reasonable value. He's got home field advantage for this. Are you kidding me?

They had to take down his grandfather's picture that was inside the courtroom. This is a home match for this defendant and this attorney, Dick Harpootlian. You've got the attorney general who has to stay at the same hotel I am because he's from out of town who's trying his case. This is a road game for the prosecution. The defense did not want this thing moved. They wanted to stay put. I don't know if Alec Murdoch as a civil attorney has ever lost a a loving husband, a loving father, and you see two bodies that are bloodied, you might bend down. You might touch them. You might try some CPR. You might hug them. You might get some transfer of blood onto your clothes just to see if there's any proof of life, you know.

But there wasn't. And he didn't. He was too clean. He was too clean. He was too clean. I don't think that's what the evidence shows. From what I saw, I remember he didn't appear to have blood on him, but he did have, I believe, blood in the pockets and some blood within on his clothing that was recovered, which is consistent with him checking the body. But the prosecution made this big thing about checking a pulse. How did he check that body? Like this? It's like the bloodiest scene ever. Come on.

He could have touched. You're not going to take the shoulders and shake them a little bit? You're not going to put your head down to see if you hear a heartbeat? We don't know how a person like this would react given the scene that he was confronted with. So a slight touch and a shot in shock is consistent with the crime scene. I don't know.

I know how Rabbi Newlander responded to a very similar scene years ago. And I know where he is now. But everybody is different. Everybody reacts differently. And nobody knows how they'd react if their wife and son are bloodily murdered. A slight touch with no heads blown off by guns, a slight touch would probably be enough

to put you in shock. But I will say this. If you didn't hear our discussion with Phil Houston yesterday, he's the guy who invented the CIA's deception detection method still being used by the CIA today. He was with the CIA for 25 years. He's a human lie detector. And he walked us through Alex Murdoch's Murdoch's discussion with the police that night when he was in the car, you know, and they were cross-examining him like, what, what about this? What about this? And the 911 call and the signs of deception are

through the roof. The human lie detector could walk you through each one and how off his, his comments were and how, and just like good reminders of how you wouldn't say like, Oh, I tried to touch him as little as I could. You wouldn't see when you give a damn what, what the cop thought about you messing with the crime scene, your, your love, your son. No, you wouldn't be trying to, I'm a good boy. I didn't mess. It was such fascinating insight. It's anecdotal, obviously, but really interesting stuff. You guys, this is not admissible. No, but but good for us on the sidelines is just sort of, you know, some color.

Vinny and Steve, thank you both so much. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. Great to see everyone. Yeah. To be continued. Don't forget to check out Vinny on Court TV. He's always worth your time. Up next, a nurse comes under fire for the crime of believing in biology, you know, because we have so many nurses in abundance everywhere. Well, let's start firing the ones who just believe in actual biology. She's here next to explain it all. Now we take a little trip up north to Canada. There's always something happening in Canada. It's like, it's like Florida, isn't it? Some bizarre news story that could be our future and kind of is already here. For the last two years, a nurse has been

investigated and issued a citation by a medical board for her off-duty conduct. What did she do? Did she take drugs? Did she do something that could impact her work as a nurse? No. Her crime, showing support for a beloved children's book author and believing that biological sex is real. A nurse with the nerve to believe that. She now faces losing her nursing license altogether and her livelihood. That nurse, Amy Hamm, is here to tell her story. Amy, so good to have you here. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, you bet. So just walk us through, how long had you been working as a nurse before this whole thing got started? Sure. I'm coming up on 11 years nursing. I've never had a patient complaint this entire time. And in the past two plus years at this point, I've been under investigation by the BC College of Nurses. to work, as I said, or as you said, rather for my off duty conduct and my views that humans cannot change their sex and children are not born in the wrong body. And the people who complained about me are people who I have never met, never cared for. And one of them remains anonymous to

me to this day. Trying to ruin your life. So what kind of nurse were you? Are you? So I right now I'm a nurse educator and I work in an acute psychiatric and mental health and substance use program. I've done some other types of nursing, including outreach nursing in the downtown east side in Vancouver, which is sort of... But obviously, psychiatric nursing right now in the wake of the pandemic with all the numbers is more important than ever. And I'm wondering, so you're working as a psychiatric nurse, you're there, you're taking care of patients. Do you have the same problem in Canada that we have here with the nursing shortage where they're just not going to nursing school, there's not enough coming up the pike. Is the same thing up there?

Absolutely. We have that. We also have the issue in Canada where a lot of nurses were fired for not being vaccinated and they're still not back to work. So there's definitely every day nurses in every area of Canada are dealing with staffing shortages. We've had emergency departments in Canada completely shut down because we don't have the staff. We just don't have healthcare staff to be there. So it's, it's at a crisis level. So this got first got started with you in connection with a billboard. Explain. Sure.

So I had been involved in talking about gender ideology for several years, writing about it, doing events about it. And then during the pandemic, you couldn't do events anymore. A friend and I put up this billboard together that said I heart JK Rowling it was something that a woman in the UK did her name's Posey Parker and after this happened this was what spurred two members of the public to complain to the College of Nurses when people found out that I was a nurse they accused me of being transphobic and said that I would not be safe to care for trans or gender diverse patients and that I should not be allowed to work as a nurse, that I'm dangerous. And had you done any, when you said you had a group

that was active before this, what was the group doing before the billboard? I was involved in a few things, but one of I am one of the founders of a group called Causebar, which is Canadian women's sex based rights. So we are a nonprofit coalition of mostly women, but we also have some men, too. And we're across Canada and we've been growing in the last several years. We have hundreds of people who are involved now. We've done things like sending briefing documents to the government. And right now we're really focusing on just building connections and talking to other Canadians to just so that people understand what's happening

with gender ideology and self ID laws in Canada, which are really impacting the rights and safety of women and children. Can you just give us an example of how? Yes, where to start with that. So there are so many ways that women and girls are impacted by self-ID laws in terms of we no longer have rape shelters where, well to go to a rape shelter in Canada. We have male rapists, sexual predators in women's prisons in Canada. They're terrorizing female inmates. Women's sports, as Americans know, because they've seen what happened with Leah Thomas. The same thing is happening up here. Women simply don't have the right to their safe spaces anymore. And then the whole other aspect is children who are being medicalized and told that they were born in the wrong body. And Canada has actually made it illegal under

our criminal code for healthcare practitioners to do anything other than immediately affirm the stated gender of a patient, no matter how old or how young they are. Oh my God. This is like a, it's like this weird dystopia where it's hard to believe this is actually happening. This is a nightmare. The very quick and steady erosion of women's rights in virtually all of their previously safe spaces. Yes, yes, absolutely. We've even seen an example in Canada. There's a male who at one point was labeled Canada's youngest dangerous offender who raped a three month old infant and ended up in women's prison where there's a mother-baby

program. So this is how heinous it is in Canada and nobody seems to really care about women. If you raise any of these concerns, you just get called transphobic and you, as has happened to me, you get investigated by a regulatory body and threatened to lose your livelihood if you dare to try to speak out or stand up for women or children. All right. So let's talk about it. So you say you don't at least one of the complainants, you don't even know who it is. But somebody complained to the British Columbia College of Nurses and Midwives. And why did they like what was the nature of the complaint that you were transphobe? Right. And why did they take that seriously? Right. It's like these are your these are your biological and political views. You're allowed to have those views or at least used to be the case.

So why did they actually begin an investigation? The the B.C. College of Nurses did have the discretion to not investigate me. They could have looked at the complaints and said, this is clearly politically motivated, as they clearly are. But they did not decide to do that. Instead, they investigated me. They sent more than 300 pages of investigation materials that largely was articles that I've written and tweets that I've made. And they tried to reach a consent agreement with me as well that would have ended this, I think, over a year and a half ago now. But they essentially wanted me to take a temporary suspension, sign a statement of facts that would be released to the public. And it was admitting that I had said transphobic

things and do some re-education, which as the hard left loves to re-educate people. Yeah, exactly. I'm surprised that they didn't suggest that I needed to be sent to the gulags. So that was what they did. And I just said, No, I'm not signing this document. I haven't done anything wrong. I'm not taking a suspension. When this is purely about what I have done outside of work. I've still been it's been going on for more than two years. I'm still working at my job. My employer doesn't have any issue with me. I've never had an issue with what I do at work. I think I'm a great nurse. And so it's very clearly, this is all about thought crimes and a regulatory body that's captured by gender ideology and thinks that

they have the right to take away the freedoms of nurses and regulated health care professionals. Is there any defense if they're if they're this dug in on you're not allowed to have that view? You biological sex cannot be treated as real. How do you defend yourself? I mean, aren't you just going to be found guilty? And, you know, like, how do you get out of this so far i've been to 11 days of hearings uh with another eight or so coming up so it's i i've been told that there are murder trials that are shorter than this um and it is it's really difficult sitting and listening. The experts from the college are offering testimonies such as, you know, some lesbians have penises and you just, it's like you're in the twilight zone. So I'm going through this hearing process.

I don't know when the hearing will resume or how many more days it will be. Right now, I'm thinking it will be 19 days total. It could be more. After the panel that rules on the hearing, they're an impartial panel made up of members of the public and nurses. They make a ruling. And depending on what happens, it can then move into canada's court system it could go as high as the supreme court of canada and of course i'm willing to take it as far as it needs to go because i i'm not okay with the bccnm taking away my right to free expression um and every nurse and they regulate midwives as well and it's just so absurd that a profession that is mostly women nurses and midwives and biological sex is so crucial to our work it's just i i like i said i feel like i'm in the twilight zone and i will

definitely fight this as far as I have to, because this is just not something that happens in a free and democratic country. It's incredible to me that this thing is taking 11, now another eight days. Like how long, what, what is there to discuss? You know, they, I recognize they don't see it your way, but are you treating in this as a psychiatric nurse, trans people who want to figure out whether they're really trans? Is that, is that at issue or is that not a part of your practice? No. And I'm, I'm a nurse educator right now, so I don't do a lot of frontline work, but that I've

worked with countless trans patients. It's never been an issue, but no, I don't work in an area where I'm discussing someone's gender identity with them. You're just not allowed to have these views. You're just not allowed to have them. 100%. It's just about thought crimes. Wow. So this has been going on how long now more than two years i think it's at two years and three or four months has this cost you money have you like who's defending you and just talk about what this has put you through as a human sure i'm extremely grateful that my lawyers are funded by Canada's Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms this is the sort of case that they take on and that's an enormous relief I could have used my nursing union for legal representation but I was worried that they were as captured by gender ideology as the college is. And they've gone on to prove that, in fact, they are. So I knew that I had to find my own lawyers. I did. And I mentioned I have been

working the whole time. My employer doesn't have any issue with my work performance. They're not concerned about me being a danger to any patients. But of course, it's very stressful having this idea hanging over your head for more than two years that you could lose your job and your livelihood and maybe even your home. I have two sons, one is three and one is six. And it's just me and my boys. I am responsible for them. So it's, it's hard. And then you see when you're at work, and you've been publicly labeled a bigot, people I've known and worked with for years who don't even look at me anymore. It's awkward. But at the same time, I like to remember that this case is, I shouldn't take it personally. It's not really about me. It's more

so about this hard left gender ideology. And I think this case would have happened in Canada no matter what and it just happens to have been me that is doing it but I think it's really important that we try to fight this kind of thing in our legal system so that we don't let these institutions control us and take our freedoms away that's right if if the courts don't stop them, then there's nothing else to do. They are the place of last resort for rights that used to be afforded all of us. The right to think what you want. It's not to say what you want. Off duty. That's what's so nuts about this in a way that doesn't affect or have to do with your nursing at all. A question for you.

I'm told that Dr. Miriam Grossman, who was featured in the Matt Walsh film, What is a Woman? She was amazing, that your legal counsel is going to call her. So what do you expect she's going to say and will they listen? So I actually got some news last night. The college had tried to disqualify all of our experts. And so far, Dr. Grossman did appear just to speak to her qualifications. And the college argued against her being able to give testimony. So last night I got the decision that Dr. Grossman has not been qualified as an expert and she will not be able to give testimony in my case. Why? I can't get into the lengthy ruling.

It's the panel that made a ruling. And, you know, I guess what I can say about the panel is that I'm really still hoping that due process is going to work out for me. And I'm trying to put my faith in that. We have one witness right now that actually was qualified, and that's Dr. Kathleen Stock from the UK. I'm not sure if you're familiar with her. That's good. Yeah. That'll help. Dr. Grossman is unfortunately not going to be able to give testimony in my case.

They're trying to handicap your case. They're trying to hobble your case. So I'm wondering whether you've heard from J.K. Rowling at all. I'm just curious. Cause that that's how it got started. Um, you, she followed me on Twitter and we've just, yeah. So that's about it. And she's liked some of my tweets. I think a couple relating to the hearing as well. Um,

that was, uh, that was very exciting when she did that. She's obviously, I really love her. Yes. And she's been so respectful in her messaging. She's always so quick, even in her first tweets that led to your billboard to say like, I will march with my trans brothers and sisters. I'm very much pro trans rights. However, I refuse to deny

biological sex. I mean, it's like that like that she's been turned into this pariah that they're trying to do the same to you is deeply, deeply wrong. Yeah, when you listen to her words, there's no hate in anything she has ever said. It's just incredible that people respond the way they do. They're not listening. Well, before I let you go quickly, if you don't get to continue nursing, what's your backup plan?

I'm still thinking about it. I'm not sure yet, but yeah, I've got some ideas churning in my mind. Move to Florida. That's what everybody does. I would love that. I'm sure it's not going to be that tough to get your nursing credentials down here. And there are still some free states. So all hope is not lost. Yes. Amy, I hope that's not necessary.

Good luck to you and your family. And thanks for telling us your story. Thank you so much for having me. Wow. Oh, my gosh. It's awful, right? Listen, thanks to everybody for watching. Thanks to you for joining us today.

Hope you have a great weekend. Don't forget to download the show and go to youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly to watch it. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.