The Megyn Kelly Show - Dr. Laura on Marriage Secrets, Protecting Your Kids, and the Value of Personal Responsibility | Ep. 250

Episode Date: January 28, 2022

Megyn Kelly is joined by Dr. Laura Schlessinger, best-selling author and host of "The Dr. Laura Program" on SiriusXM, to discuss balancing motherhood and career, being there for your children, personal responsibility, ways of rescuing a troubled marriage, the goal of making your spouse happy, the small gestures that can save a marriage, protecting your kids and the importance of routine and stability, the effects of bullying on kids and adults, victimhood and the term "survivor,", celebrating quitting, and more. Plus, Kelly's Court with Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spilbor, on mask mandates, Sarah Palin vs. New York Times, Stormy Daniels vs. Michael Avenatti, Joy Behar trying to understand the Supreme Court, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. We have got a great and fun Friday program for you today. Later, Kelly's Court is back in session with some really interesting cases. But first, the signature event since the show has launched. Joining me today, she really needs no introduction, Dr. Laura Schlesinger, host of the Dr. Laura program on Sirius XM, Triumph 111, and author of 13 New York Times bestselling books. Dr. Laura, I am so excited to have you. Thank you for doing this. You know, Kelly, if you weren't so nice and sweet and brilliant and kind and thoughtful, I'd hate you for being so gorgeous.

It's true. Thank you so much. I have been interviewed on tv by more people than i wished i had been and when you interviewed me on fox uh i left saying wow she's smart she's strong she's nice i haven't dealt with too much of that in the industry. You're amazing. You are amazing. That is high praise. And a good mommy. And a good mommy. You know what? Let's kick it off there because I don't want to be too bootlicky, but a good mommy, not totally independent from some of your advice. I was one of those women who, I don't know, maybe was sold a bill of goods by my generation, by women around me and led to believe you can do it all. Sure. You got it. And I had this thriving career at Fox and I took the job in the prime

time knowing that I had, you know, at the time, two kids and one baby on the way at the third on the way and that it was going to be very disruptive. And I took it because I was ambitious. It was a big raise. It was more power. And I lasted three years before I said, holy, what am I doing? And I had been listening to you for years. I'd always been a fan of yours. One of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you on that show and this. And you had a gift early on in your life of just understanding you have to be there. If you have children, you have to raise them. You owe that to them. Don't bother having them unless you're prepared to do it. So I'll just keep it up there because I feel a little bad now

because, oh, great. Now I've made my money. Now I've, you know, I sort of established a name. Now I can make other choices to be with them more. And so I feel I don't want to look at the women out there, single moms working so hard, you do say, even to those moms, there are solutions that can get you more time with your kids, even you, even you working the double job with a deadbeat dad. Well, we dump the dad and go home to mom and dad and try to make it work. I remember I was giving a little talk and I don't remember what the group was at all. And one lady stood up and she was in her late 20s, same thing, no guy, had a kid, little baby, and she just reamed me. And I said, it's just not good for your kid not to be loved all day. Find a way. So she stormed out. I got a letter from her about six months ago. When she finished being angry, she realized it was because she was being defensive. And you know what she came up

with? In the valley, there are a million tall businesses with lots of offices. She made cupcakes and donuts and stuff like that, sort of like the Mildred Pierce movie, and brought her kid with her everywhere. It was a baby. So the baby was with her all day, and she made good money doing that. She found a way, and she thanked me and apologized for going crazy at me, which I didn't mind. It was okay. I knew she was being defensive because she didn't have a thought then. But when people are willing to realize that their babies need them, for goodness sake, they've listened to you for nine months inside you, felt all your moods, they come out, they suckle at your breast, your voice, the way you look at them, their brains are still forming for the first five years. Do you want their brains to make connections about love

and safety and contentment and enthusiasm and everything else with somebody else? Hired help? So, you know, to me, it seems logical. People get upset if you take puppies away from their mommy too soon. Yes, moving along. No, it's true. And I would say in my case, I had to live it and learn it from myself. I had believed the narrative that I could do it all, that I could staff it up. And I have a husband who's a writer, so he was at home. And that was great. And my children did have a primary caregiver, a parent as a primary caregiver while I was at work. But it wasn't good enough for me. I knew they needed me. They needed their mom. And I also needed them. And I remember somebody saying, but you're in such a powerful position. Why would you ever leave? And I just kind of laughed like, you don't get it i if you don't understand i can't explain it to you i'm not going to miss their childhoods right because if you miss their childhoods they don't care about missing your old age hoods yeah my situation was, I was there, I was there, I was there.

And I would work at night on radio on KFI, some other place first, and then KFI was the main one. And then they were going to shift things around. And I heard a rumor that I was going to be put in drive time, which of course in radio is considered the big deal. It's not such a big deal anymore. At the time it was a big deal. And I went home and cried because I knew if they offered me that I'd have to say no, because that means I would not be picking my kid up from school. He was in second grade, third grade. And then I wouldn't be there for dinner and I wouldn't be there to put him to sleep. Well, that was a no. Fortunately, they never offered me the job, but I wouldn't be there for dinner and I wouldn't be there to put him to sleep. Well, that was a no. Fortunately, they never offered me the job, but I wouldn't have taken it. I stayed midday, drove him to school, picked him up. He didn't even know I worked.

How did you have that knowledge? Because your generation was the first to be told, do it all. You can have it all, Right. My mom was born in 1941 and she tried and was very stressed out, didn't have any help and tried to do it all. And really, it wasn't easy. So how did you have that wisdom, you know, challenge him, have fun with him. It just never occurred to me to do anything but that. I mean, I enjoyed the hell out of him. We used to go into the woods, semi-woods near a park and pick up sticks and challenge the dragons. I mean, we did all kinds of crazy stuff. I loved it. And when I started publishing books, I went on one book tour for a week and said, well, this isn't happening again. And then I heard that they were starting to do something on what they call satellite, where you sat in a room all day. You got to pee now and then, but you sat in a room all day and took interviews off the satellite.

So I did that. And he was at school So I did that. And he was at school. I did that. He didn't even know his mother was working. That's the time he was growing up. He had no clue what his mother was. Right. And that's good, right?

He doesn't need the pressure of that one way or another. But to me, it speaks to a philosophy I've gleaned from you when it comes to parenthood, but also to relationships, love relationships with a spouse or a partner. It's about the everydayness of it. It's not about the grand gestures. parenting just on the weekends or on a vacation or when you have the time and you can't build a healthy marriage or relationship by just bringing in the big roses and the surprise trip to the tropics it's the everydayness of it that makes it or breaks it right it was one man who called me many years ago and he said he was going to leave his wife and kids of course i wanted to crawl through the phone and strangle him but anyway uh i said to him, well, there's no affection and it's, you know, it's this, that, and the other thing. And I said, okay, this is what I want you to do. This one thing. And then you call me tomorrow.

Most of the time, people don't call back. I think they feel defensive, scared, this or that. They didn't try it, what have you. So I said, I just want you to get up sometime during dinner, go to the refrigerator, get the margarine or butter, whatever the hell it is. And as you walk by, touch the back of her neck. Now, you know, on we women types, on us women types, whatever, on us, yeah. Back of the neck, just a stroke. Oh my God, that lights up your whole body. That is a good one. So he walked by, did that, and he felt like an electric shock went through his whole body because it's the everyday little things. He called me the next day and he goes, I don't know how you do that, but I feel like I'm in love with her again.

Small, small. And the last thing you want to do is have big, long discussions with your husband. There's nothing they hate worse than a big long discussion can we discuss the relationship oh god they wish they had a heart attack it's so true we used to joke my my husband and i uh you know he's from the main line in philadelphia he's sort of buttoned up and um we used to joke in the beginning or i'd be looking at him he'd be looking at him, he'd be looking at me, and I'd say, can we discuss our feelings? He'd just kind of roll his eyes. Oh, I have a stomach ache. I'll be back.

Do you feel we must? It's the little things. It's touch. Touch is probably the number one most important thing. You don't have to hear anything, see anything, say anything. It's touch. When I see people and I don't often walking as couples holding hands and I don't see it often, I walk up to them no matter where I am, no matter who they are. And I just go, it is so lovely to see you guys holding hands. And they both start

beaming and telling me how long they've been married and how much they love each other. Holding hands. I hardly see people doing that anymore. It's so sad. And I feel like we're going a different way as a society in general. We have movies, we have TV shows, we have moments where we prize the wife ripping on her husband, mocking him, running toward her girlfriends.

This is the model they show. And I know that you're against that. You talk, I mean, this is one of your greatest pieces of advice to be a girlfriend for life, even when you're the wife. But I do think we've gotten into a habit as a society of accepting that a husband and a wife are very separate. They're very different. Men and women, very separate, very different. And not reminding people that it doesn't have to be that way. You could be your husband's number one defender, number one champion, and you could be the girlfriend slash wife that he does not want to leave every Saturday and Sunday to play golf for. Well, what I say to women in particular, because I think we have the power in the relationship because we create the mood, we're harder to please they're easier to please you slurp them and they are just will melt for you unless you're married to a sociopath but other than that which is rare uh i say be the kind of wife i remember when i floored one woman

that's when i used it for the first time and i've been using it ever since because it was so powerful. I said, are you being the wife you want to come home to? No. Well, then why do you expect that he stops for a drink with his buddies? He doesn't want to come home to you either. Change that. That's what's so great about you is personal responsibility and the reminder to everyone that it's it's back to you i've told this story before in my own life when i started off in journalism

and i was at fox news i was very green and we were working on a package that was going to air that night in the 6 p.m news with brit hume then and it got screwed up my package didn't it didn't have the soundbite was wrong. And I talked to the managing editor, Kim Hume, after the show. And she said, how did it happen? And I said, well, you know, I told the editor, this is how I wanted to cut. And this was the bite that he was supposed to use. And he didn't put it in there. You know what I told? And she said, not him, you. What could you have done differently to ensure that your package aired the way you wanted it to? And it was truly a light bulb. It was like, yes, she's right. I should have

budgeted my time better. I should have sat in the edit bay with the guy and made time to watch the final product before it aired. I wasn't in that much of a time crunch. I could have done it. Not him. You, you ask that of everyone, pretty much in every situation. Yes, because most of the time, what they're complaining about in their spouse is that the spouse is reacting to them. So I say to people, well, what do you think would have happened if you had sat on his lap, put your tongue in his ear, hugged him and said, sweetie pie, I would really like if you would. Do you think he's going to say no, bitch, get off my lap? I don't think so.

So women just need to treat their men like they would have, like they did, hopefully, when they were dating and were desperate to have him like her. Please, it's not complicated. How do you get to that first step though? Because when people are calling you or asking themselves this, they're in a bad spot. The relationship has gotten sour or down. It's just not doing that well. And they feel resentful and they don't want to sit on the lap. There's already so much resentment build up. It's hard to get the woman or the man to take the first step. I browbeat them into doing it. Basically, that's my job is to say, okay, then get a lawyer and get

the hell out of there. But don't call me bitching about how he or she is not giving you what you want when you're not being sweet, adorable and letting them know in the most loving way possible what you'd like and what you'd appreciate. Not what you want. You don't do this for me. And, you know, you talk like that and you're only going to feel negative. So the nastier you are to your spouse, the angrier you get inside your heart. So it's all in how you talk, sweetie. Yes, because men respond to tone, right? Very much so.

Oh, I got something funny to tell you. A woman called me. She's in the car with her husband, and they were having some problems, you know, and they would argue and he would argue. He's a little stubborn, blah, blah, blah. So I told told her next time he starts that rip open your blouse or lift your sweater just do it don't say a word just go flash him so I can't tell you how much mail I got from across the country it works men are easy ladies it's not it's not difficult to get a guy on the happier side of things what about the for the guys that it doesn't work in reverse men out there just no he drops his pants and she goes all you think about is sex exactly you're supposed to they should do the finger on the back of the neck. What's the one thing they can do to change the mood? You're not going to believe this one.

Cry. Because what I've seen is that when a man totally breaks down into vulnerability, that cuts through all her garbage. Compassion. Compassion. Compassion. So a man really has to show how hurt, how devastated he is. And if there is no reasonable, compassionate response to that, you married the wrong person. As I have said many times since I got a letter from a gay man wondering why so many people are against gay marriage when straight people don't seem to be doing it very well themselves. And he added at the end, and I've been using it ever since, he wrote,

it's very simple, choose wisely, treat kindly. There's a lot of not choosing wisely. Now, and you can speak, you can speak to this firsthand, as can I. We both had starter marriages before we met the loves of our life. And I wondered that, like when you was, forgive me, I think I have the names right, but before there was Lou, there was Michael. And do you think that your first marriage, would you have selected Lou? Would you have had such a strong 30 years with him if there hadn't been Michael beforehand and the experience of that?

I'm thinking. I was in such different parts of my life. I was a graduate student getting my PhD at Columbia University in New York City, and I severely injured my knees. And he was like Sir Galahad. He'd throw me over his shoulder and take me to a movie. My knees are great now. I mean, I deadlift and play tennis and all of that sort of stuff. But at the time, it was up in the air as to how strong I'd ever be with my legs. So he was just wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, until I got completely healthy. That's when the problem started. He needed to be the hero, and I no longer needed one. I was literally on my feet. So that was troublesome for both of us. Lou was a very caretaking guy.

And I think that was the original attraction. I really wanted the snuggly feeling of a very caretaking guy. So I don't know how much they were connected. One needed to be needed, but it was maybe not on the

healthiest level. Lou didn't need to be needed he just liked taking care of me and you've always been able to say that you needed that and wanted that notwithstanding the fact that you're a strong woman i mean you there's space there's space for all of that and you talk about that all the time about how what women want is the guy who's going to put his his jacket down over the puddle you know for them so they can so they can walk on the other side it's so refreshing to hear you say the things that we all know are true when we're being told other stuff by society right like no women don't

need men you can do it you can have perfect happiness without them no we do want a chivalrous guy and we do want to be taken care of and we can be strong and smart have great careers and all that stuff and still say all that's true i mean uh you know i'm widowed now if if you know a nice guy for me let me know okay megan you need a lot of people give me a break here it's so hard to get a date um so uh you know i'm i'm who am i looking for let me think let me think gone with the wind rhett butler if you can find me a guy who has that temperament strong opinionated has convictions um and can lift me off over a puddle yeah and his huggy kissy yeah you got one of those for me Megan I might actually I'm actually very good at this yeah don't ask

unless you're really serious oh i am serious my husband doug hates it he's like babe this never it doesn't end well and then you know we don't know which one to go out to dinner with but in your case i would so i'd still go out to dinner it's fine good okay so i'll find somebody i i can sacrifice if it doesn't work out but it will because i am i have a secret matchmaking talent that people don't know about me. All right, stand by. And I should have called you a few years ago. I'm going to squeeze in a break and so much more with the one and only Dr. Laura. P.S. This is a dream come true. This is so exciting. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Okay, so Dr. Laura, let me stick with relationships for one minute. Um,

I have this philosophy with my husband now and we're going on, I know we got together in 2006. So what is it? I don't know. A lot of years anyway, married in 08 that most of our problems and most of our relationship can be, you know, saved by just looking at each other with the most generous lens. Like I, if I feel slighted by him, if I feel like he's whatever, not paying me enough attention, I just sort of rejigger my brain to remember this is Doug, you know, look at him through the most generous lens because that's actually the one that does apply. That helps me a lot. It helps me treat him better and then I get better results and so on and so forth.

But I think a lot of people struggle to do that, again, because of prior resentments, or maybe they don't have a dog or maybe, you know, like men aren't always the most thoughtful creatures. So I do wonder, other than the physical touching and sort of that, is there some sort of relationship rescue for couples that are just feeling like they don't like each other anymore? Sometimes. Sometimes they chose poorly and or they have too much psychological problems that they can't be generous. That's a problem. Because if you've had experiences from childhood, you're traumatized, it's that or the other thing, then it's very difficult for you to be generous because you're

spending most of your psychic time protecting yourself. So that's why I nag and cajole and threaten to pinch people's heads off when they don't do what I ask them to do, and that is to get out of themselves and imagine how the other person feels. When I was in private practice, I would take a couple and say, I'd have to explain this a couple of times because they're both so angry, and I'd say, okay, one of you now is going to be a defense attorney. The other is going to be your spouse. So defend your spouse against what you're thinking and saying and doing to him or her. And it was remarkable because when they had to defend the spouse, they had to recognize that some things they were cause and effect,

that they were behaving in a way which made the other person back up, get angry, not talk to them, go to bed late, that they weren't being treated sweetly, or they had done something or said something callous. So when they had to defend the other person, they came to see outside of themselves. The number one problem in my never to be humble opinion is that the problem most likely is not thinking about the other person first. Okay, I'm really angry. But let me think. On their side of this, what are they feeling? What are they thinking? What do they do? Now, if you really married a bad person, you got to get out or tolerate it quietly

until the kids are grown and then get out. But assuming, as most people have, you married a reasonably nice person, then you need to come out of yourself because it's so easy where animals in the kingdom and what we do first is make sure we're safe. You can't do that in a marriage. It's the opposite, right? Wake up thinking, how can I be the best possible wife to him today? How can I make him happy today? And you don't even have to be particularly optimistic about your husband and your relationship to do that. You only have to want to make yourself happy, right? Like, how do I get happier? I will treat him better because it does come back to you. I mean, it's just human nature for it to then come back to you. Well, the moment you're being sweet, sweet. You feel better. Does not make you feel better. Does. So when women or men turn on the

charm, it affects them immediately. Even if they don't get the response they'd like, it makes them more peaceful inside. And when you're more peaceful inside, the other person reacts to that. It's not just that your spouse is independently behaving a certain way unless they're psychotic then they're independently behaving a certain way and has nothing to do with you okay because it's the world is just in their head but assuming you have a reasonable person to be married to like everybody else, then you have to realize that you're hurting them. And that's why they're behaving this way. And the other thing is for women in particular, have sex with your husband. I mean, it does a lot.

It's like women, I think, withhold sex very often as a punishment. It's their, I don't know, quiet way of saying you're not treating me right or I'm not happy. It's their, I don't know, quiet way of saying you're not treating me right or I'm not happy. But I just, you tell me, but I feel like sex, they say it's like what it's, when the sex is good, it's 10% of a relationship. And when it's bad, it's 90% of the relationship. And it's such a relatively small gesture between spouses that can go a long way toward restoring some intimacy, some trust, some endorphins, a lot of good things about it. Yes, they snipped out from one of my calls this little exchange, and they use it as a

promo, hither and thither. And basically, I'm telling this woman, you've got to be affectionate and sensual and sexual with your husband if you want to make this connection again. And she says, I don't have time for that. And you hear me say, honey, you better make the time or you're going to have a lot of free time when he divorces you. Right. That's not a chip you can bargain with. you you'll lose everybody should get up in the morning look at their spouses i know you haven't brushed your teeth or peed yet but look at your spouse and say to yourself what can i do today small tiny to make them happy and happy they're married to me. That's the point. I want him or her to be happy,

married to me. Lean over and say, I love you. This woman was in the middle of her hot flashes. I read her email yesterday. So she's sleeping naked without a blanket. He gets up in the morning, sees her like that and just stands there and looks at her and she got a little self-conscious and said what are you doing and he goes you're so beautiful and she says oh i'm 50 something i'm going through menopause i'm sweating my brains out and you think that's sexy and he goes yes because i love you and that was the end of these games in our own heads right it's like women yeah we're always so judgmental of ourselves we have a little extra weight we have something on your skin whatever it is and you think that's all he's looking at and i've had talked to enough men on this show comedians and others who are so funny about this stuff and they say

just so you know we don't we don't give a shit about any of that we just want to get on top of you couldn't care less about yeah your extra 10 extra 10 pounds or whatever it is that you're self-conscious of. Trust me, we're not seeing it. As long as you're naked and up against him, he doesn't care about the little inconsistencies in tone or anything else. I don't care as long as you're naked and next to them. That's exactly right. It's a blessing. Truly, it's like you got your ace in the hole there, so to speak. Oh, dear. Oh, dear. How much power? Is it clear to your listeners right now? How much power do we have? All we have to do is smile and come close and be nice. It's not complicated and it's frankly not difficult.

I don't have the time. I'm irritated. Well, then get an attorney. He's going to get a girlfriend. Oh, one woman called. I just don't feel like having sex with him anymore. And I said, okay, I just need to know if he calls me what I should tell him to do. Should he get a girlfriend? Should he go to prostitutes? Should he masturbate to porn? Or should he leave you? None of those. He should just be understanding.

Okay, let's go through the four things again. Back to planet Earth. Yeah. Yeah. Let's come down to Earth. One of the things you talk about is the children, right? Like you've got you've you do have to be there for your children and divorce is very hard on children. And that's one of the things. That's one of the reasons I never had children with my first husband, as I think in the back of my head, I had a suspicion it wouldn't last. And that was one thing I knew I couldn't do. And I understand a lot of people have had divorces while they've had children and they do the best they can. And sometimes you do realize you're married to a sociopath. You got to get out. But I do think

it's interesting listening to you talk about stability in a child's life and how we owe it to them to try to keep things as steady as possible. I started feeling guilty about it because I was listening to you and you were advising against moving them in the middle of their upbringing. And I was like, oh crap, I just did that. Shit. But I had to, Dr. Laura, because our schools in New York went hardcore left

on the critical race theory. And it was abusive toward my children that we had to go. You're supposed to protect your kids, which precludes everything else. Okay, I feel better. Yeah, not to worry. But can you spend a minute on that?

Just the importance of sort of that stability and routine and predictability in a child's life. Just like we talked about the first three years, when somebody is there to kiss, to hug, to hold, talk, and there's consistency. The brain, which if kids were born with their brains totally finished, they'd have adult-sized heads and they'd never come out. So, you know, they're born with the brains, they can't even roll over. They can't do anything. They're totally helpless. So their brains are forming. That means that all the connections are being made, not only for motor activities, but emotional and psychological. If there's a lot of yelling and screaming and anxiety and stuff going on, that's going to influence how connections are made in

the brain. For a person to come out more or less anxious, withdrawn, can go in many different directions. And then after birth, you know, all the time that we spend with kids, the experience they have with the family, lead them to feel secure, safe, trust, love. That's probably the number one reason people call me. They don't trust love. They don't trust being loved. They don't trust making a decision about love. Mostly they don't trust being loved because there was so little of it at home. And when there's going to be a divorce happening, I always ask the women, because it's mostly women who call, not totally, but mostly. And I ask them, well, how bad is the situation? Well, we just don't talk. So there's no yelling, screaming, alcoholism, beating on each other, none of that stuff.

It's just dissipated. And I say, you know, you really need to stay till all the kids are 18. Be nice to each other. They need the stability. Or their future, even if they do well academically, their emotional future is going to be dented severely. Now, what about people who say, oh, but if you do that, you're teaching them how to be in a bad relationship, what they're learning on a subliminal or otherwise level. Yes. They're learning that once you make a commitment and have moral obligations,

that you sacrifice your own happiness because you have a moral obligation to somebody else. Does a fireman running into a burning building to rescue a kid think, oh, this is fun. I'm so glad to be doing this. You know, of course, I'll never get hurt. No, the fireman takes the risk for the benefit of someone else. We have situations like this all over the world where people, doctors without borders and, you know, the religious groups that go to feed

starving people, they're likely to get sick from some disease, die because there's violence, sacrifice having some lives, people who go into the military. I mean, isn't that kind of standard that one of the elevated things about human beings is that we're willing to give up something of ourselves for somebody else's benefit? That's what a hero is. A hero is not somebody who makes a hole in one or plays basketball. A hero is somebody who risks something for the benefit of someone else. That's what it ultimately would teach them. Now, unless the home is dangerous or destructive, if the home is dangerous or destructive, then we don't have that ability to do that. That's a different story. Yeah. So let's switch it to little older kids, tweens, teens. This is more my wheelhouse now.

And I and all my friends are talking about the same thing right now, which is how do we avoid bullying of our children? How do we avoid our children being the target of the so-called mean girls? It could be mean boys, too. And I'm with you. I've read so much of what you read. I've read so many of your books, but I'm with you on the, you know, part of the reason we send them to school is so that they can have some challenging social interactions where they learn how to deal with those. And that's a good thing. That's, we want that. But how do you figure

out, okay, this is something she or he has to navigate on their own. I'll be there to advise. And this is a situation I need to step in and protect my child from because lasting damage is going to be caused here. The stepping in thing we need to talk about. But I love you asking me this. You and I, without going into the details, have been bullied all to hell in our professional lives. You would agree that's true? 100%. Bullied to the point of wanting to hide under the bed or live under a rock somewhere. And I remember one time it got so gross, I sat down with my son and husband and I said, okay, I'm going to quit. We're going to move somewhere else and you can change your name. My son, who was eight, stood up, put his hands on his hips,

I'll never forget this moment, and said, I didn't raise my mother to be a weenie. So what are you teaching your kids? When I was about eight, I was bullied all to hell because I lived in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and my father was Jewish, but my mother was a gorgeous Italian from Italy that he liberated at the end of the war. He was in the military and brought here. And the jealousy and what have you and marrying outside of your religion, all that was pretty gross. And a lot of it was taken out on me, where I got into fistfights, all of which I lost. Of course, now I have a black belt in martial arts, but I also have guns all over the house. Anyway, so. And you can deadlift 85 pounds. We have video of that, but okay. Well, we're up to 100 now, but okay.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I guess I could deadlift somebody and toss them. It's worse now because there are so few parents parenting. So you really need to tell your own personal stories of being bullied to your kids so that they know it's something they can survive because they respect you and admire you. But the bullying is worse than it's ever been. Reason being, if that's proper English, reason is that so few parents parent. Because I have said there's only one cure, only one. All this nonsense they do in the schools, it's meaningless. There's only one cure

that when person A starts bullying, threatening, saying bad things to person B, that everybody standing around there stops them. Now, I brought up my kid. Somebody's getting hurt. I expect you to step in and protect them. I expect you to do that. Don't hit anybody. But if they hit you or somebody else, hit them twice as hard. So twice, when he was in middle school, was being picked on he stepped in you know and then they call your house and i said to him uh what was happening the kid was picking on the other kid uh who started it i don't know who finished it me i said where do you want to go out to dinner so it takes parents parenting which they don't do much of. They give their kids cell phones that go on the internet, iPods, let them go into a world that is disgusting and

dangerous and addictive because they're lazy. Parents two generations ago were not lazy to parent. If you said to somebody, I'm going to tell your mother, oh, geez, you knew the world was going to come to an end. You say, I'm going to tell your mother, you say, go find her. She's busy. Go ahead. And when you find her, she's going to go, what did that kid do to you to force you to do that? So they defend their kids, even though they're wrong. So parenting has changed. Our culture has changed. And that's why bullying is worse, worse. And it's not going to get better soon. It's so hard. I'm so torn because I want my kids to fight their own battles and navigate their own difficult situations. And yet you also have this motherly instinct to try to protect them from severe upset you know

you don't want want them to just be strong without having to go through the things i know that actually make you strong that's mommy's we're mommies anything that has breasts that has milk that's how we act it's so true all right stand by on that note you i'll just leave you thinking about the the breasts and we'll squeeze in a quick break. Be right back with the one, the only Dr. Laura. And don't forget, folks, you're getting all this goodness right here on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 111. That's where I am with the Megyn Kelly show every weekday at noon east. And Dr. Laura is my neighbor. She comes on right after the show ends. And you can see the full video show of the MK show if you would like to by going to youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly.

If you prefer an audio podcast, you can subscribe and download on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts for free. And there you'll find our full archives with more than 245 shows down. This is what I would ask you today if I were to call in and get on with you, although I'd do it a lot more succinctly. I, as you mentioned,

I have been bullied in my professional life, but also as a child I was. My entire seventh grade year was very rough. And I do think there are upsides to it in that I kind of have a career devoted to taking on, in often case, bad people and holding them to account. And I enjoy doing that. Good point. I am very reticent to reach out to anyone with a social invitation. I am very fearful of rejection. I would rather just sit at home alone, not alone, but with my husband and my kids and not take any social risks because I'm terrified of being rejected. And I know rationally it's not going to happen in every case. Well, just explain one thing to me before you go on. If you're getting an invitation, that's the opposite of a rejection. No, but the reason it's coming up is because I need to make the invitations. I've moved to Connecticut. My kids are new. Oh, reaching out. Yes.

And I have to be the one to do it. And I'm terrified. And now I have to do it for my kids, too, because they're new and they need help. You know, they're not having mixers anymore because of covid. So I really need to be more of an aggressive, assertive person when it comes to my social life. No, I know I'm having no, no, no, no, no. You do it within your comfort zone, which means you join. I don't know if you run. I'll just say, let's just say you run and you find a group of women who run. COVID or not, you're running. You're not going to catch it while you're running outside. I don't care about catching it, but you know how a lot of people are terrified. you join a group. So it has nothing to do with you sending out, you reaching out and seeing who's going to say yes for political views, for just envy, whatever the hell motivates people to do stupid, ugly stuff. You go join things and you set that up for your kids. Go join that chess club.

So you don't intervene. You're not setting it up for them. You're not risking anything at all. So you look at what your comfort zone is and your comfort zone does not include you being the reach or outer. But if you joined a group of women running, they would invite you to things and then that would grow. So it's okay that you're scared.

I'm not gonna try to fix you from that. You just need to find a way to connect, avoiding what makes you nervous. So get off your back, woman. I like that. If they just see my sparkling personality, then they will reach out to me and I'm back in my comfort zone. Well, yes. Yes. Yes. That I can do. I know. I don't know if it'll be something. I love how into exercise you are. You have a rocket body. I mean, you celebrated your 75th on the air. So I feel comfortable saying your age. Some women don't like? It makes me sound much more important. Or been stronger, right? You sail, you deadlift, you do martial arts. Is that what you said earlier? I don't anymore, but if I have to, I will. It's crazy how fit you are. So what do you get out of that? And have you always been this way? I've always been this way. I just like the feeling of exertion and the muscles. I like the feeling of being fit. And I like when I can lift more and more. I did a row today and I went, what the hell?

How much weight is my lifting? He said, 35. I said, do you notice how small I am? He goes, shut up, just lift it lift it now are you still sailing i i hear you i race yeah i'm a skipper i race a sailboat i've heard you talk about this and i picture your life as just like nailing it like in california with water views working the hours you want to work doing the show you want to do while sailing what you love in the midst of great beauty i we talked about the love thing which i'm going to fix for you but thank you do you feel like space in my life yeah of course but do you recognize you feel like you're nailing it i mean you're nailing it no no because for me, it's the norm. And which brings me to something else. You will be rejected

sometimes because of your looks, because of your success. You have to realize that being rejected sometimes has nothing to do with the quality of you. It has to do with the lack of quality of them. See, I have always liked strong women because I get along with strong women. There's no competition. I don't compete. And that's why you and I, if we live next door, we'd be bosom pals. And because you're a strong, kind, nice woman. My best friend, Patty, is a very strong and unbelievably sweet person. And when you're like that, folks who don't have much esteem become jealous and take it out. So some of that you can't avoid. You just have to call me up and say, is this me or them?

And I'll go, them. Okay, bye. I'm with you. I feel like the more, and I use this term broadly, attractive a woman is in terms of her personality, her accomplishments, her self-confidence, the more attracted to her I am, the more I want to be with her. I want it to rub off on me. I want to learn. I want to probe it. I want to get to know it more I want to be with her. I want it to rub off on me. I want to learn.

I want to probe it. I want to get to know it. I want to be just like it. Because you've got a good soul. You don't think your light gets brighter by dimming somebody else's. So that's the kind of person you are, and that's why you do what you do. This is such an honor. I'm actually getting therapized by Dr. Laura.

My life is complete. There's so much more to go over. We're not done. And she agreed to stick around for an extra block. I'm the luckiest person in America today. And so are all of you because you are the beneficiaries of having her sage advice today, not just for her show, but for this extra time with us. Don't go away. More with Dr. Laura in just a few minutes. Stay with us. Okay, so Dr. Laura, you are a straight talker in a woke world. And it's one of the reasons why you're so popular. But I'll give our listeners an example of one of the ones that jumped out at me. I'm listening to the Dr. Laura show one day. This woman calls up, says something's wrong with her marriage. She's upset, doesn't like the way the husband's behaving, etc. And she says, this is my second marriage. Dr. Laura says to her, well, why did your first marriage end? Hold on. Hold on. Why did your first marriage end? And she says this, that, and the other thing she gets around to saying, well, I cheated on him with this guy I'm married to now. And Dr. Lawrence, you say to her, so what you're saying is you're a scumbag. I died. I died. I'm driving my car like, oh, I need to know her. I can't. It's not enough just to listen. And I could go on.

Right. I mean, this has happened to a lot of people who call in and realize they're going to get called a limp dick or. Well, that's because they were little kids. Right. So I don't tolerate that when they're little kids. So how does that fly? You know, being a straight talker in a woke world.

And do you ever try to stay within these crazy bounds of speech that they're trying to throw on us now? Do I sound like it? Would that be a no? No. No, I'm a little miscontrary. If you tell me I can't do something, it's going to happen in spades. Let me give you a funny example. When I was on terrestrial

radio which i do not miss uh uh i was on a fabulous station in dallas and i just started and they hadn't had a woman on so this was new already and uh got a call some woman old lady called and i'm 75 now i don't know what an old lady is anymore. But anyway, she calls and is terribly upset that I said penis. And so I shouldn't say penis again. Oh boy. So my business partner calls and told me what happened. He listened to the tape and it was appropriate. I didn't just go penis, penis, penis. that for me it was appropriate to the conversation so that's on a friday over the weekend i'm scouring the news and i found this great medical news piece about sizes of penis and functions of penis and this that and the other thing

you know i'm dr la Laura Schlesinger, right? So Monday I start out with that piece of news. About the penises. Yeah. But it was a medical article. I mean, legitimate. This is not the way society's going. If I had a nickel for every time we've had to say to our kids, you're not

allowed to say that. You're not allowed to say that either. And it's not that we're trying to speech police them. It's just we don't want them to get caught up in the web too early in their young lives of, you know, you're bad, you're terrible. That means you're this or the other thing. Oh, by the way, this just can I share this with you? This just came in on my phone from my husband. Apparently he's in the car with our eight-year-old he just picked him up from school they get out early on fridays that's your eight-year-old her i said penis penis penis no no earlier doug writes that you're heard quote have sex with your husband he said dad can we not listen to this anymore dying He said, Dad, can we not listen to this anymore?

Dying. The truth about mom and dad. I mean, you still have sex. Ew. It's amazing. They know everything. So we're going in the wrong way on so many fronts in terms of our society and one of the ways that i know bothers you as it does yours truly is victimhood the embrace of victimhood you wrote a whole book about this many but one of them's called bad

childhood good life good life and it talks about how you this leaning into victimhood seeing yourself as a victim is is not a healthy thing. And you go so far as to say calling yourself a survivor, that's not good either. Totally unorthodox, heterodox now, right? You'd be kicked out of the main square for saying that because it's all the rage these days. As you know, the kids find currency in saying just the opposite. Right. Well, you probably know I had

unilateral breast cancer. So I said, just take it off. Take it off. And I didn't have a fake one put in. So I'm a little lopsided looking, but you can't tell most of the time. So anyway, somebody called in and had the same sort of thing and said, I'm a survivor. And I said, no, you and I are just lucky. I don't like survivors. There's something about that. It's like I was drowning and I survived. I don't know. We got lucky. Unfortunately, too many other women don't. And I don't take pride in it. I'm simply grateful for it. So there's an amount of pride taking with survivor. Makes it sound like you did something to make it be okay. And we don't.

We get lucky or we don't. The medicine works or it didn't. The surgery works or it didn't. We got lucky. And we should be grateful rather than seeming prideful about it. That's how I look at it. Because I feel bad about all the women who weren't lucky. Well, it's like, to me, the term survivor, it's used often in terms of sexual assault,

that kind of thing. And if it makes a woman feel better, okay. But I think it does sort of saddle you with just an ongoing reminder, a label that this thing somehow has to continue to play some sort of a significant role in your life. And I don't know that it necessarily does. I've had enough bad things happen to me in my life that I can say, you're not in total control maybe of how you react to an event as traumatic as that, but you are in some control and how you choose to think about it does matter. And the words you use around it matters. Well, when you say survive like a sexual assault, what does that mean? You weren't killed? To me, that's the only thing it would mean. To say I was sexually assaulted and I work hard every day to enjoy the life I have in spite of what happened to me and I'm getting justice for what happened to me, this sounds like a stronger position, where I'm taking, I am the one who has to take on the burden of making my life good in spite of this evil thing that was done to me. I guess if you have no negative feelings about something

horrible that happened to you at all, and you're just going on with life beautifully, I guess that's a survivor. To me, it means you just weren't murdered. So now it's your responsibility to grab your life back. Women have called me about having been molested and they're not enjoying sex as adult women. And I go, you damn well have to get your sensuality back. This is something God given that you be able to enjoy your sensuality and enjoy sexuality and enjoy making love. You've got to grab this back. So let's talk about how we do that. So you're right. That's a different perspective than I'm just a survivor, because what does that mean?

I'm walking around feeling miserable, but I didn't die. You know, today's, I don't even know if it's millennials so much as the early end of Gen Z, but they seem to enjoy finding alleged diagnoses on the internet that may apply to them. Talk about how, you know, they've survived this, that, or the other diagnosis on this, that, or the other thing. I have some syndrome I've never heard of having to deal with anxiety, having to do with depression, what have you. And it definitely does bear some social currency in today's day and age to say that you are a victim of something, that you are oppressed for some reason, whether it's the patriarchy or what have you. You could go down the list. And I do wonder, where's this going to get

us? You've been fighting against this for years. Where's this going to get us? This is going to get us a country that can't compete on any level already. We're the 25th in the world behind some so-called third world countries in math, science, reading, and writing. 25th. This is supposed to be the most magnificent country in the world. We're putting the important things aside for eliminating all emotional distress. See, people have asked me, who is my, who do I think about as so amazingly esteemed that I would want to be like them? You know, who do you respect the most in all of history? And it's Harriet Tubman. She was a slave. She was sold like a bag of potatoes.

I don't think she knew her parents. From what I have read about her, she got the hell out of the South somehow and then was very involved in the Underground Railroad and in getting food to slaves who had run away. To me, this was the epitome of one of the worst things that could ever happen to you. And she rose above it to help others. That is something to aspire to.

It's not at all the way the kids talk. No talk no they because they're not taught these stories well but they also get snaps as they say for getting up there and talking about whatever their struggle with an eating disorder or you know we saw when and i i understand simone biles and why she couldn't compete at the Olympics fully. I've interviewed her. I've interviewed a lot of the gymnasts. That Larry Nassar was a disgusting pig criminal and thrilled he's behind bars forevermore. So I get that there was a lot going on for her there. And she deserved our empathy.

And I said this at the time. But what we did when she decided to quit in the middle of the event was celebrate the quitting. You know, we're in this place now where we're celebrating the quitting as it happened with the tennis player, Naomi Osaka, too, where we celebrated, oh, you won't do the thing that everybody else is doing, the press conferences,

because that's what you need to protect your mental health. Are you aware of any men doing this in sports? Because you being in news would know this more than I. Probably not. And I don't think it's good if i had been with simone i would have said it is a far far better thing you do to lose than to quit you will respect yourself for trying for rising above the pain the worry first of all, I thought,

what an insane amount of pressure on a young person. She was considered the top in the world. I mean, how do you top that? You know? So I thought that pressure alone was enough to squash a brain, you know? I felt bad for her and then found out about the other stuff.

But I would have told her, fail, but don't quit. Because you'll teach young girls to just stay with it in the 70s. I can accept that. I'll go along with that. But we did prize toughness and grit. It's kind of what has made America great. Well, that's one of the reasons we have held sports people, athletes in such high esteem, because they push through pain. We admire that. I like people, even who are not athletes, push through emotional and physical pain. This is your life. It's limited between now and dead. What's the view you want to have of yourself and what do you want to experience? So whatever is within your ability to function damn well, do it.

Yeah. Can I ask you about the meaning of life uh we mentioned no i'm just kidding go ahead you mentioned lou and i love by the way i'm loving this i'm loving this this is the only interview in my life i have loved doing we'll be here till four in the afternoon uh we'll play a tape for my show we'll just keep going go ahead oh my god let's just keep it rolling i'm in it's it's i'm that's truly high praise and a relief because i've listened to i always if i hear you're going to be on somebody's show i listen and um you're not afraid if somebody asks you dumb questions to say so and to give people a hard time yeah that's me i know i love it i'm so politically correct yeah but i was thinking about lou's death because i've heard you talk about it on the air a number of times and in very

open and honest ways and i've heard you choke up and i wondered whether someone as brilliant as you who spent a life digesting lessons and offering them to other people and being thoughtful about life and how to navigate it. Whether any new lessons came to you. He died in 2015. Whether something about the meaning of life or how we're supposed to be living when we're here came to you. To be truthful, no. Because I think I was pretty evolved by that point, to put everything in perspective. I mean, I was like a sucker punch.

He had been various stages of ill in about all his body systems for over two decades. And, you know, I was sole support. And so it was, and I had somebody there. And I remember coming home in the afternoon because I, unfortunately, I don't think I should have looked at him after he was dead. That was very hard. That was very hard. If I had to do all over again, I wouldn't do that part.

But I came home and just stood in the kitchen. I had two dear friends with me. And I just stood there and went, what am I supposed to do now I mean I had it was like the world got the slate was just cleaned off and I had to figure out what where to go from here and sort of made me sick to my stomach literally for quite a while but god bless my work I would sit down and help people for three hours a day. And that was my best therapy that I was, I was still, I was useful. I had a purpose. I had something to do and friends being supportive. I don't know how people do stuff like that without friends. I have no idea. I just don't know how they do it. But no, so I didn't learn anything because I was already pretty evolved in that way. That you need to have purpose in your life and you need to have people in your life and don't underestimate the value of either one of those things. successful career and still nurture those relationships in a robust and meaningful way.

Not everyone can say that. And you know what? For those that are out there doing it in a different way and have that voice in the back of their head saying, try something else. Let it be an inspiration. You have been to me. You have been to millions of people who absolutely adore you. Delighted to count myself among them. Delighted to know you. And I'm 100% taking you up on this and going out to California and being your neighbor and falling in love. Hi. Good. Let's do it. It's done. I hope you're not kidding. Honestly, you're the first person I'm calling the next time I go out there. Thank you so much. Thank you for the warm welcome. Absolutely, you better. To Sirius and just for all the advice

that you've given me and so many others in ways you don't even know. Thank you. And by the way, your producer, Mike, great guy to work with. Oh, that's nice to hear. Thank you. Class act.

It is time for Kelly's Court. Today on the docket, the fight against mask mandates, Sarah Palin versus the New York Times, and the return of Stormy Daniels law and Mark Iglish, who is a former prosecutor and a current criminal defense attorney. And he's a civil attorney, too, just in case you find yourself needing to sue somebody for a bunch of money. OK, let's let's kick it off with the mask mandates. And Virginia in particular is kind of interesting because Glenn Youngking got elected promising he was going to get rid of these mask mandates. He did it. He issued an executive order saying they're done by it's over. And now the more left leaning school districts in Virginia are disobeying him, defying him, saying you don't have the authority to revoke these mask mandates. We want them to go on and on. Mark, who's in the right?

I read something about the school board being the ones responsible for this decision. I think that's going to be the issue, which will make them stay away from that classic balance of, you know, the need to protect versus individual rights. I think they've got them on a potential technicality like, hey, doesn't the law say that the school board should decide? So that's what I'm going. John, I thought it was that there's a law in Virginia that says that the school districts are supposed to do basically the most extreme things, whatever precautions the CDC recommends, they're supposed to do in the Virginia schools. And they're saying you can't trump that with an executive order. You can't trump the law that the legislature passed with the last governor by an executive order.

Yeah, see, that's a really interesting point, because the reason why they have Youngkin as the governor is because he ran on basically this exact thing, putting some power back in the parents. I know you guys are parents. I am not a parent. But I can tell you that if I were a parent, I'd be sending my kid to school in Virginia and any other place without a mask at this point. We are over two years into this pandemic. I think the governor can make masks optional, which is what he's done. That's all he's done. Look, nobody can ever wear a mask. He's making them optional so the parents can decide what is best for their children. And I think he's legally sound on that decision. This state has been told the parents in it time after time. We don't want your input. Parents input isn't relevant. We don't care for

it. That's why Terry McAuliffe was not elected. And Glenn Youngkin was. And these poor parents in these counties who want to take the masks off are so incredibly frustrated. We had a woman on the other day. Her son went to school without the mask. He was shoved into some cafeteria where he sat there all day. They had the temperature controls off. So they were sitting there in like 55 degree temperatures anyway. And this is a 10 year old boy and he got sent home. Right. It's humiliating. The kids don't understand what's going on. The teachers won't teach him if they don't have the masks. Don't get me started. And they took to a school board meeting in Fairfax County, Virginia last night. Here's just a little bit of how that school board meeting went.

Watch. Across Virginia right now, adults are gathering in gyms, bars and clubs and laughing together maskless. Yet my five kids spent all day today, eight hours in masks in Fairfax County public schools. My first grader has never been inside his school without a mask. He's never had a chance to smile at his friends or hear his teacher's unmuffled voice. And it is outrageous and ridiculous.

And Governor Youngkin respects that. He respects parents' rights to make choices for our children. He gave parents like me the right to mask out of your forced masking. Why then, when I went to my friendly local elementary school to exercise that right, did some then, when I went to my friendly local elementary school to exercise that right, did some poor, kind woman have to tell me that my kids were suspended?

Why are you putting them in this position? Fairfax spends $15,000 about a kid per each year. You've gotten hundreds of millions of dollars in the emergency funds, and Virginia still has $3 billion in unspent school relief funds. Instead of that money going to you so you can initiate lawsuits and hire security guards and press aides to keep taxpaying citizens from seeing what's happening in the schools, it's time you get loud that money to follow each child. Parents should be given control of that per-pupil spending so that we can find educators who respect us and so that we don't

have to come here begging to you to have some decision making. This week is known as National School Choice Week, and it's time for Virginia to give parents like me the ability to just leave this school system that very clearly doesn't want us anyway. Wow. A for passion. that's a lot of passion there feel her frustration mark you get it it's like the parents have to pay the taxes that's supposed to get your kid into school and most people can't afford private school so it's not another the money doesn't file follow the child and the mask mandates are going on forever they had an election they elected the guy who said he was going to get rid of them and even still the school boards are no, treating this like we're at the height of the pandemic. I feel her passion. I respect it. I admire it. But this is one of those issues.

I got to tell you, I also respect and admire the other side. The one that wants to mandate masks on everybody? Absolutely. I think that they are entitled to their opinions. I think that people who are condemning others for taking- They're entitled to their opinions, but we're talking about a legal case. It's not just like you're entitled to your opinion. Somebody's right. There has to be a ruling. Well, somebody's right. You mean some judge is going to make a ruling, typically balancing people's rights and then finding which tips in favor and in different jurisdictions is a different ruling. I don't know about right or wrong. I think that people have strong opinions about this.

And I don't think that people are that crazy for having an opinion on one side or another. And I think, quite frankly, if we bring that energy to other issues, whether it be abortion or capital punishment or the many other myriad of issues that divides this country, we'd be a lot better off as humans. Oh, my gosh. You're off point. You are way off point. Go ahead, Jonna.

Go right ahead. And you know what, though? Mark is speaking from Florida, where that governor has made several very correct decisions over the course of this pandemic, in my opinion. And Governor Youngkin is trying to do the same. I do not know why the school board thinks that it should be in loco parentis and stand in the shoes of the parents on issues affecting children's health. And by the way, the poor kid who got sent to the temperature controlled, you know, safe room at the school.

Did he was he did he have COVID? But did he test negative? I mean, why are we doing this to our children when they survived a year and a half of remote learning, which was bad enough? It is time that we get back to life. And this is not a bad or unhealthy or unfair decision by the governor in Virginia. And I I'm with him and I don't blame the parents. I would love to meet the mother that spoke so eloquently at that school board meeting because she speaks for a lot of parents in Virginia. That's right. Well, what's going to

happen now is a court will rule on whether that preexisting law makes this executive order null and void. And if in fact that is the case, then the Virginia legislature is prepared, from what I read, to pass a new law revoking that old law and allowing the governor to set the policy and which will be no masks. So if you're in Virginia, get used to it. The masks are coming off. You want to mask your kid? Go for it. That's your choice. You're the parent. You don't get to say what's on my kid's face. I am 100% at that place on this pandemic, as my audience knows. New York is having a similar battle where the governor, Hochul, she issued an emergency order or had somebody issue an emergency order saying mask mandates for everybody. And it just got struck down as unconstitutional by a judge on Monday saying, nope, those powers had not been renewed and you didn't have the authority to issue that mandate when you did it. Now they filed an appeal and the declaration that the mask mandate is unconstitutional is being held in abeyance while they litigate the appeal. So you do still have to

wear the masks now in New York. But it's absurd because what happened when they brought it up to the appellate court, her people, she had the attorney general go in there and contest his ruling. And they argued if that ruling is not stayed, it will allow individuals to refuse to wear face coverings in indoor public settings where the risk of COVID-19 spread is high, including in schools where many children remain unvaccinated. This is a farce, Jonna. Kids, yes, they remain unvaccinated. Kids is a farce, Jonna. Kids, yes, they remain unvaccinated. Kids have next to no risk from COVID. Why are you talking about that? Like we should all be saying, they could take the face coverings off their faces, the children, they're fine. Look how you went to Jonna because you know you'll get support.

Because you're annoying. No, I agree. But I'm also in New York. And I got to tell you, I have had masks thrown in my face when I have entered establishments without wearing one, even establishments where five feet from where I was, I was going to sit and be allowed to take the mask off. And not to mention that the mask mandate that this governor put into place was supposed to end anyway, Tuesday, Tuesday. But she had to go and get a stay for a week. Like, why couldn't she just say, you know, oh, okay, we'll let this appeal go on. We won't request a stay of the status quo. And if she thinks she's going to

expand this mask mandate past Tuesday, somebody who you're both looking at is going to be marching in Albany with a sign unmasked and pissed off because enough is enough. I'll go with you. We can stay at my mom's. We can visit my mom. Oh, good. We'll do that. All right. All right, Mark, I'll let you have this one. Sarah Palin is let's kick it off with what's happening with her mask situation, her vaccine situation. She's suing the New York Times in a very interesting case that I do want to talk about. But first of all, she gets pinged for being out at a restaurant and she didn't show her papers. And the reason she didn't show her papers because she's not vaccinated.

So then she goes back to the same restaurant two nights later and the poor restaurant gets written up again in the papers because apparently she wanted to go back to apologize for getting them in trouble. It's like, you know what, lady, don't help me. Don't apologize. Stay home. Anyway, so what's happening with her, with Sarah Palin versus the New York Times? Well, aren't we talking about that other issue, that other bigger one? I mean, there was something more major with her where she was connected with some type of big scandal. And you're talking about this one? What are you talking about? What do you mean?

What are you talking about? Right. The defamation. She's suing the New York Times for defamation. I was just taking it off. OK, good. Because you brought up this this this vaccination and her going back to the restaurant. And I thought that was somehow had something to do with the lawsuit.

It doesn't. I got mad at you. And it really threw you off your game. Totally. All right. So she's suing the Times for defamation because they several years after the Gabby Giffords shooting, they ran an editorial suggesting that her PAC had specifically targeted with sort of the crosshairs, you know, that you see in a gun, certain districts sort of leading to violence against people like Gabby Giffords. They knew it wasn't true.

They did take it down within 24 hours after she complained. I mean, it really made her look like she was some sort of a crazed murderer trying to get Congress people like Gabby Giffords murdered. It was six years after the fact, and it was the guy James Bennett who wound up getting fired for running the Tom Cotton editorial at the Times. He did it six years. He knew it wasn't true because they had made it a deal at the time, and she complained, saying, this is bullshit. This isn't right. So six years. He knew it wasn't true because they had made it a deal at the time and she complained saying, this is bullshit. This isn't right. So six years later, he makes the same mistake that had already been corrected previously, not at his organization.

And he takes it down within 24 hours. I'm of two minds on it, right? Because that's like, I'm mad on her behalf. But I also think freedom of the press is really important. And the actual malice standard is extremely hard to meet for a reason, right? For a reason, they don't want willy nilly defamation suits being filed. So where do you stand? That's it with the analysis starts there. Obviously we start with freedom of press, big fan of that. And there's a specific standard

under Sullivan where you have to prove actual malice. That's going to be a challenge for her. So now it's fact sensitive. Um, it's not so. It's not so because Megyn Kelly says it's so. It's so because the facts show that they knew it to be false at the time. Did they? Did they knowingly put this out there, knowing it to be false? Maybe they did. The fact that they took it down right away doesn't necessarily prove that. So the question is, did they know at the time that it was false or were they reckless and disregarded the truth? If that's the case, then yeah, they should malice. The reason that no public figure realistically ever sues for defamation is because if you're a public figure, you can't win.

The standard of proof that the person aligning you had actual malice in their hearts in doing it is so high, you know, that they knew it was false when they printed it and they had actual malice. So it's so high. But this case could redefine it. It could redefine it. It could redefine it. What she's trying to say is that, you know, six years after the fact, the New York Times knew very well that her pack had nothing to do with the shooter who went in and shot up Gabby Giffords event. And yet this is what appeared in their paper. Was this attack evidence of how vicious American politics has become? Probably. In 2011, when the shooter opened fire in a supermarket parking lot, grievously wounding Representative Gabby Giffords and 19 other Democrats under stylized crosshairs. That wasn't true. And the fact that the New York Times pretended that it had no idea that this had been a big story. This had been a big story when people did this to Sarah Palin in the wake of the Giffords shooting. And she had to run around trying to correct other people. She called it a blood libel. Remember that too made news. Um, it's, it's a jury might disbelieve that this guy didn't remember that they might believe he did have actual mass against Sarah Palin and maligned her for that reason.

I think it's important for Sarah Palin to bring this suit for a whole other reason. I agree that she's probably not suffered damage, although sometimes if you can prove the defamation, you don't really need actual damages. You can get money anyway, punitive, for example. But it's important, Megan, because we are coming off a period, and it pretty much began, or at least was exacerbated with Trump, where the media is under fire when they do something that is untoward. And this is more, this is going to have more of a political fallout than anything, because if she's successful in this lawsuit, or even bringing the lawsuit anyway, it shows that the media can be biased, which,

you know, if they want to be, that's fine. It shows that they do things perhaps to color politics, to color upcoming elections, to color these sort of things. And Sarah Palin is saying, you can't always believe what you see and what you read in our press, which used to be very esteemed, and now seems to have taken sides politically and doesn't care, is reckless, has abandoned when it comes to factually printing truth. And if she illustrates that, she's won. She doesn't have to get a dime. Yeah, that's right. And that's probably what's motivating her. We don't need her lawsuit to teach us that the media is biased. I mean, I think that that's

readily acceptable by any reasonable, intellectually honest person. The question is whether I'm curious, John, whether you think that she's got actual malice here, which is the standard and will only change unless and until she takes this up to the Supremes and it changes. You know, she might. I mean, they're basically calling her a crazed lunatic who wanted somebody dead by making up these facts that weren't true. her because again the new york times piece was six years after the gabby gifford shooting um when when the shooting took place sarah palin was maligned in this very same way i remember i was on the air it was a very big deal she was very angry because her her map had absolutely nothing to do with the gabby gifford shooting that's a fact so just so the audience understands that people just hated sarah palin they want to use her little crosshairs map and it meant like these are the ones we want to target in terms of getting them out of office. They tried to use it against her in a false way. He worked for the Atlantic at the time and the Atlantic ran the piece. The Atlantic was was one of the ones, if not the one that got this lie started. And he's claiming apparently, oh, I don't remember that. I didn't see any of that. But now we know it was James Bennett, they learned in Discovery, who specifically inserted that paragraph I just read to you into the New York Times editorial.

A woman wrote it. Somebody else on the Times editorial board wrote it. And he took it and said, oh, wait, I want to insert this one special paragraph. So her position is going to be he couldn't stand me. He knew very well from his time at The Atlantic because this was a big deal. I was at Fox and I knew. You're telling me he's at the paper that did it and he doesn't know that. I don't know. I think she's got a shot. I think I do, too. Yeah, that's a shot. It just depends on what the facts are. He gets up there and he says something different in terms of what his motivations were. Then that could be sold to the jury, too.

He's going to say it was on this way. He had a short turnout. Maybe this guy will never do it again to somebody else. And change the facts a little bit. What if a reporter doesn't portray Sarah Palin that way? What if a reporter says she

molests children? She kicks puppies? I mean, take the politics out of it for a minute, even though that's why this was happening. It was very, very political. Celebrities and people who are public figures should have the right to stop this kind of malignment. They should have the right to do that because it does hurt reputations. Maybe politically, we're all always going to have a side, whatever, that's fine.

But if it's something that's even more personal than politics, then you're damn right. Public figures should have a right to stop, put a stop to it. And this is maybe one step in the right direction there. That that does that. That is what Stormy Daniels believes, because she is now suing. Well, she's not suing, but she's testifying. She's testifying in the case against, as Tucker called him, creepy porn lawyer Michael Avenatti. It's amazing what's gone on.

Now, this case gets weirder and weirder. So as I understand it, it's a criminal prosecution of Avenatti. And so she just testified. It's not a defamation case. It's a criminal case alleging he stole $300,000 from her when she was in the news. And we were all like, what? She was President Trump's alleged lover. She's a porn star. And she made all this news because Michael Cohen had allegedly documented this deal paying her $130,000 to stay quiet about the fact that she had this affair with President Trump, who wasn't president when he had the affair. And I had Michael Avenatti, who represented her on my show at NBC.

And I had the lawyer representing basically Michael Cohen and Donald Trump, that side. And it was great because I just killed them both. I encourage you to go look at those on YouTube audience. You'll enjoy my interview of Michael Avenatti because unlike the rest of the press, I didn't roll over for the guy and think he was the second coming. To the contrary. In that instance, I knew what I was dealing with. And he was stealing from her, says the prosecutor, while he was out there like, Stormy, poor Stormy. He stole on her book advance. And what they're alleging is that she was emailing him saying, where the F is my money? She's a colorful character. Where's my money? Where's my 300,000? And he was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. Meanwhile, St.

Martin's Press, which was her publisher, she finally went to them directly. They're like, dude, we paid your lawyer several times. I mean, it's the most unethical thing you can possibly do, Mark, as a lawyer. And what do you think the odds are of him managing to avoid a conviction here? Yeah, a low chance, especially because he has a fool for a client. He's representing himself. Really? You're that likable? You think you can handle both jobs? The problem is just follow the money. So they're going to see where the money went. They're going to see messages where he's saying, I haven't gotten it. Clearly, he's deceiving her. And then the other side of his mouth, he's going to say, oh, no, no, no. We had this agreement. We had this agreement that I was supposed to get a portion of this money for what I was doing. I don't have it in writing or anything, but we had this oral agreement, pardon the pun. And, you know, she promised me that. And that's why he's talking about this puppet and he's making her look really bad because he needs to make the jurors feel that she's not trustworthy. Um, Jonna, they say,

let's say Thursday was the fourth day of testimony. He actually got up there and cross-examined Stormy Daniels. It's so crazy. You know, he's the defendant. He's up there cross-examining Stormy, who's the alleged victim. And, um, it went to a weird place, Jonna. It went to a very weird place. Did you see? You saw the update? Yeah. With her doll?

I guess Stormy Daniels decided to leave the porn industry. And now she is part of some paranormal show on some cable network. And she uses some little doll named Susan, who looks like just a normal American girl doll to me. I have no idea. Doesn't look creepy. And they go all over the country. And she claims like Susan can speak and Susan's eyes move. And this was the nature of his cross. Yeah.

Yeah. To try to discredit her. And I, you know, I thought the porn made her weird, but spooky babes, which I think she actually has a show. And I believe that's the name of it,

where she channels other worlds through this damn doll. It's so bizarre beyond, it's bizarre beyond measure, but you know what else is really like, these are the days I love news. Go ahead. really, like, just from a legal standpoint, though. Go ahead. We, um, Mike Lavinati is a disgusting tool and a giant stain on our entire profession, number one.

But I knew that way before he started representing himself in the second criminal case. This isn't his first criminal case. He was convicted when he tried to shake down Nike, if everybody remembers. He should be serving time for that now. But instead, he's allowed to cross-examine his former client, which should also be illegal because she was a former client. And attorneys are forever, we have rules with what we can and cannot discuss when it comes to former clients. Some of them go out the window if your client is suing you for money, which she's not. This is a criminal case, but I'm sure

that will come next if it doesn't. And for him to get up there and really make fun of her is what he's doing. This has nothing to do with whether they had an agreement. We have agreements all the time. Attorneys are required to have fee agreements in writing. You are not permitted to have an oral agreement. And so I don't know why he's going to claim that he was entitled to this money, but to just embarrass any witness, even if it's easy to do, and this was easy to do,

and I don't like Stormy Daniels any more than I like him, but have a little decorum in the courtroom. But he's incapable of it because he's a disgusting human being. Okay, so we have the pictures. For the listening audience, go check out our YouTube later and you will see the pictures of little Susan,

the allegedly spooky, scary doll. There she is sitting on a piano next to Stormy, looking normal. Megan, I want to know who's... Go ahead. I'd like to pay to see an interview of people who are paying to see her do this i i that i don't think i don't i know how did how did this become a thing i don't know but she's got her own show and um he was basically saying you you believe that you have the ability

to speak to dead people and a doll and trying to discredit her, right? I think that's fair game. I would do it. If my life's on the line, if I'm cross-examining someone, I can get that in and the judge isn't going to prevent me from doing it. Great. What I do take exception to is exactly what Jonah raised earlier about him being able to cross-examine her and say, isn't the fact that you told me X, Y, and Z, but wait a second, what happened to the sacred attorney-client privilege? Like that dynamic is really weird. And I don't know how that's happening. Yeah, it is bizarre.

Well, apparently she defended herself by saying like, well, you know, a lot of people have spoken to Susan. It's not just- Oh, normal. Susan has her own Instagram, guys. She's got her own Instagram. I'm sorry to tell you, I actually wasted five minutes of my life looking at that today. Okay, on to, listen, there's a big Supreme Court nomination that's going to have to come

up this year now that we know that Justice Breyer is retiring. Joe Biden says that he's going to pick Breyer's replacement by the end of February. And we don't know who it's going to be, but we appreciate that it will be a left leaning, you know, probably a more liberal ideologue that he'll use to replace pretty much a liberal ideologue. He's a little bit more moderate than some of the others Breyer is. But anyway, the ideological balance of the court doesn't change. But there are some liberals who are just upset that the court is 6-3 conservative to liberal now. Anyway, some liberals like that legal scholar Joy Behar, who for some unknown reason felt the need to give us her legal opinion on the Supreme Court and how unhappy she is with it. Listen to this, you guys. The Supreme Court is like this dictatorial branch of the government. These are people who are appointed by their own people. They do not answer to the country. They are there for life. The only way to get rid of them is to impeach them, which is a long process. I always feel

like that particular branch of government is so anti-democracy. The fact that there are no term limits, the fact that you can put your people on because they agree with you, and then they're there forever, influencing maybe three, four generations of Americans. To call that a democratic institution seems an oxymoron. You mean the judiciary? Yes. She's an idiot. She's an idiot. It's at the top of the third branch of government, sweetheart. And not only that, but there are Democratic representatives involved because you don't get to be on the Supreme Court unless the Senate confirms you. And guess how you get to be a U.S. senator? We'll wait, Joy. We'll wait. Oh, wait. You have to be elected. I looked it up just for kicks. Joy does not have a law degree. She got a degree in sociology from Queens College and her M.A. in English from Stony Brook, which means we really don't give a shit what she has to say about the Supreme Court. But that's that's just me. I'll let you guys take it. Mark, John, I'm defending her, taking away some of the things that might have gotten wrong factually. That's her feeling. And I hold on one second. You and your feelings.

I think that her feelings about the Supreme Court are ones that are shared by many people on both sides of the aisle. That's fine. You keep saying that it's a defense. I don't care if she has feelings. She had feelings that she's just a dumbass. Jonna, I'll give you the quick last word. I don't know if I made my point, but that's okay. Go ahead. She needs to study the organizational charter of the United States. The Supreme Court is what it is for a reason. She wouldn't be talking out of her backside if it were reversed and it was majority liberals on it. So bye, Joy. That's right. You got that right. Okay. It's been a pleasure. I still love you, Mark.

We're back now. We got a quick question brought to us by Steve Krakauer, my EP. Go ahead, Steve. Hey, Megan. Yes. Cynthia from Instagram wants to know, what do you love most about living in Connecticut now? So much, Cynthia. I love having a house. I love having a pantry. I love having a closet that actually fits my clothes. It's like the lapse of luxury out here. I have windows. I can see nature. I love having neighbors who I can see and talk to and get to know and who hire my boys to shovel their walks. That's exciting, right? I just love being part of nature and driving my kids to school in the morning and not being, you know, surrounded by big buses and all the scary traffic in New York. It's just, I love everything about it. It's actually the best move we've made and I wish I had done it a lot earlier. So thank you for asking. Don't forget to join the show on Monday because we're going to have Clay Travis and Rick Grinnell. That's a bunch of A-listers. Excited to see those guys and get their input, especially with what's happening in Russia and Ukraine. Can't wait to hear what Rick has to say on that.

And in the meantime, don't forget to download the show. And you have to subscribe. Subscribe to it. Right? You can do it on Spotify. You can do it on Apple, Pandora Stitcher. If you go to Apple, leave me a review, and I will read it. I promise to read it.

I read them all. They're lovely. Sometimes they have feedback. Sometimes they have guest suggestions, but I have read every single one of them and would love to hear from you. Also, you can go to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Megan Kelly, and you can check out Stormy Daniels' weird little doll, among other things. And we'd love your subscription there because that helps us, you know, generate more support.

And then it's harder for them to block us. When I go to YouTube to yell at them, I have more power, right, behind me. In any event, have a wonderful weekend. If you're in the Northeast, watch out for this storm. I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to stay home and I'll watch the big snowflakes fall and hope for as much as possible. But stay well, stay safe, and I'll see you Monday. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.