The Megyn Kelly Show - Election Consequences, with Chris Christie and James Carville | Ep. 27

Episode Date: November 20, 2020

Megyn Kelly is joined by Gov. Chris Christie and James Carville to discuss the consequences of 2020 election, the status of Trump's legal challenges, the down-ballot losses for Democrats in the House, the upcoming Georgia Senate races, the prospects for "unity," COVID and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShowFind out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Today, the state of the presidential race, of the GOP, and of the Democratic Party. We have got Governor Chris Christie and James Carville on lessons from the 2020 election and predicted outcomes. That's now. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Today, we've got two of the smartest guys in politics joining us with predictions on how this presidential contest is going to wind up. And what really happened on Election Day with those down ballot races?

What does it say about the future of the Democratic Party? Going to get to that in one second. But first, have you ever Googled yourself, your neighbors? The majority of Americans admit to keeping an eye on their online reputation. But Google and Facebook are at the tip of the iceberg when it comes to finding public records. There's an innovative new website called Truthfinder, and it's now revealing the full scoop on millions of Americans.

Truthfinder can search through hundreds of millions of public records in a matter of minutes. Truthfinder members can begin searching in seconds for sensitive data like criminal, traffic, and arrest records. Before you bring someone new into your life and around the people you care so deeply for, consider trying Truthfinder. What you find may astound you. This might be the most important web search that you ever do. Go to truthfinder.com slash Kelly right away to start searching. Again, that's truthfinder.com slash Kelly. And now, Governor Chris Christie, formerly Governor of the state of New Jersey. Governor Chris Christie, thank you so much for being here. My pleasure, Megan. Great to be with you. All right. So on the show, we want to give

it to the listeners straight. What is Trump doing? Does he have a realistic chance of prevailing on an overall effort to reverse this vote? No, Megan, I always approach this as a former prosecutor as opposed to a former governor because I want to deal with the facts, and that's what we got to do exclusively when we were in prosecuting. I said this on the Wednesday morning after the election, after the president's first speech

at about 2.30 in the morning. You can't stand up there and say there's been fraud, the election's being stolen, and I would have won easily but for it unless you produce evidence. And we're now sitting here, you know, 16 days after the election, and I still haven't seen any evidence. Now, are there irregularities in elections? There are always irregularities in elections. The question is, were there irregularities or intentional acts that would have changed the course of the result? I haven't seen that. And I think it's, you know, getting very, very late to present something like that.

So, you know, the strategy here from the president's perspective, I couldn't explain it to you because in the end, if he was concerned about this beforehand, which he said he was, he should have had a much better legal strategy in place in the weeks before the election to be able to detect anything that was going sideways. He didn't. And whenever you try to piece this kind of stuff together afterwards, you know, you're not going to succeed. And so, you know, I think that, you know, if he doesn't have any evidence, which it doesn't appear he does,

that would change the results in at least three states, then it's time to move on. So I, like you, have tried to look at the evidence. And one thing we both know from having been in courtrooms is the judge, the courts in these cases are going to see a lot more than you and I are going to see over here. They get to read all the briefs, get to, they have to read all the briefs, see all the evidence, the affidavits that have been presented. And I will trust what the courts tell us in terms of outcome. But just looking at the overall landscape, he's losing most of these challenges. In Pennsylvania, he filed eight lawsuits, only three are still pending. The strongest one is the one that went up to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court said,

get back to us if this remains an issue, which is, was the state Supreme Court allowed to postpone the deadline for submitting your vote by allowing you to just postmark your vote as of election day? That's the strongest. But we don't even know if that category of votes, which is sitting in a separate pile, has been included in Biden's 81,000 vote perceived victory right now. So, you know, Biden may be able to win Pennsylvania without any of those votes because, you know, they may not even be in the pile at this point and there aren't enough to swing it the other way. And then in Michigan, he filed two lawsuits. Only one is left standing. And that's basically just about challengers not being allowed to observe the voting process. The filings are due this week. It doesn't look that strong to me. Georgia, one lawsuit filed. It was dismissed. There is a recount

underway. Arizona, he filed three. He dropped two. There's one pending. It's very lame. That one is talking about how counties can't hand count ballots at vote centers as opposed to vote precincts in response to which the AG there is basically saying this. There's no legal basis for that whatsoever. Nevada, he filed two. One was upheld. It's pending about the polls being kept open late. My bottom line on this is if he prevails on all of these, maybe you're talking about a handful of votes, but the margins Biden is leading by in each of these states, they're big.

You know, I'll just run through it and then I'll get your thoughts. But Pennsylvania, it's Biden by 81,000. Michigan, Biden by 146,000. Nevada, Biden by 33,000. Wisconsin, Biden by 20,000. Gets tighter in Georgia and Arizona, where it's Biden by 13.9,000. Arizona's 10,000. We're going to have two recounts in two of those states, Georgia and Wisconsin. But to me, it feels like a Hail Mary. I don't know.

Is there any chance those collectively, and I'm going to get to this massive allegation of the computers are corrupt, but could those collectively get him over the line? very reluctant to overturn a vote count in those numbers without there being real solid evidence of irregularities or intentional misconduct that would have affected a larger number of votes than that. Because remember, that's the margin. You can't assume that every one of those votes that disqualified would be a Biden vote. So it seems highly unlikely. And I think, you know, calling it a Hail Mary is probably a right way to characterize it, Megan. And what I'd also say is that when you look at the Pennsylvania lawsuit, I do think there's concerns about what the Pennsylvania Supreme Court did. But like you said, we have no idea whether those votes are included in the 81,000 vote margin, how many of those votes there are, and, you know, what percentage of that vote

Donald Trump got, which you have to assume he got some percentage of it. So, you know, again, I just think that there's, it's a very, very long shot. But to me, the more damaging part of it is, is to make the charge before you have the evidence. Right. So that would be like me going into a grand jury as the U.S. attorney and handing out an indictment and saying to the grand jury, I'd like you to vote this indictment out. And the grand jury form says, but wait a second, we haven't heard the evidence yet. I go, don't worry, I have the evidence. I'll give it to you later. That's what this is like. And that's what bothers

me the most. Does the president have an absolute right to pursue these legal remedies? Yes. Does he have an absolute right to pursue recounts, especially in states that are close, like Georgia and Arizona, I'd say, are the two that are closest. I know he's pursuing one in Wisconsin, but that's the number of votes he won by four years ago in Wisconsin. And, you know, I've spoken to people like Scott Walker and others who I trust in their judgment of close Wisconsin elections. And they've said, you know, that there's no way that a recount would overturn that large a margin. That's the thing. Recounts usually get votes that are close by like a thousand, a couple hundred, but not huge like this, like a 33,000 vote victory. I don't think one's ever been reversed on a recount

or because of a voter fraud charge. No. And listen, there's lots of people who compare this to Bush versus Gore. And all I'd say to that is, let's remember that Bush versus Gore was one state only. That that state, when the voting was first stopped counting, was 900 votes in the entire state of Florida was the margin. When the recounts stopped, it was 537 votes. And there were no allegations, really serious allegations of fraud in that, in that election. It really was a question of the standard by which you decide what is a vote and how they're counted. Oh, you're bringing back like bad memories about hanging chads and do they count? What do they mean? And that was like, yeah, the pregnant chat, right. When you, you punch the

little thing, but it doesn't go all the way through and the little, the vote tally looks pregnant. It's much different than alleging fraud, which is an intentional theft of an election. So yes, Al Gore got 37 days to fight that. That's why I've said the president has a right to fight whatever he wants to fight. The, the, to me, the bigger problem is coming to a conclusion before you conduct the investigation. So you say, it's a fraud. Now I'm going to investigate to see if it is. Well, and when it comes to voter fraud, unlike what the Democrats say, you are always going to find a little. There is some voter fraud going on in this country. The question is whether it's massive, whether it's large enough, and you can prove it to reverse margins that huge.

Listen, I had a predecessor governor of mine named Brendan Byrne, a Democrat, two-term Democrat, was a very funny guy. And he since passed away, but he used to say when he was alive that he made his wife promise that she would bury him in Hudson County, New Jersey, so that he could remain active in politics. You know, there's no doubt that in places like Philadelphia and in New Jersey historically, Illinois historically, that there have been examples. I put people in jail for when I was U.S. attorney for voter fraud in New Jersey. It happens, but that's not the question here. The question is, did it happen, as you said, on such a scale that we'd be able to reverse the kind of margins that we're talking about? And I've said right from Wednesday morning after his 2.30 a.m. speech, show me. And if you

have the evidence, I will fight with you to make sure that the election is a fair and honest one. But if you don't have the evidence, you should not expect people to just blindly follow you and your allegations. All right. But let's let's talk about let's talk about Michigan, though, because there was some funny business going on there. And that's a 20 electoral vote state. If Trump could get that one reversed, it'd be huge. However, he's losing by the most in Michigan. That's the toughest challenge with 146,000 vote lead for Biden. But I do want to get into the news of the day there because this is the first time I

really perked up and said, now I'm interested. Now you got me. Now I'm paying attention. Because the Republican Canvas board members there for, it was basically the county in which Detroit is, they said they were bullied last night. They did vote to certify the vote. But then they almost immediately reversed themselves and said, I regret it. Their names are Monica Palmer and William Hartman saying I was bullied into doing it. I do not believe we should have certified this. There are too many irregularities in Detroit to justify accepting these election results.

And the only reason I said yes at the last minute is because I was promised that there would be an audit, which already the Democrats are saying they're not going to do. And I was threatened. These two, it got crazy, crazy. Like people were showing up from the county, openly threatening these two, if they didn't certify the vote, charging them with racism. And we have just one example. There's, this is a guy named Ned Stabler, who's a well-known Detroit entrepreneur who got up there and shamed those two like they were about to cast their votes in the big white hats. Listen to Ned. You talked about not certifying Detroit, even though you acknowledge that Livonia, a city, by the way, I know you know is 95 percent white, had bigger variances than Detroit, which is 80% black. We understand. And you've now added your name.

So I'm not going to try to change your mind. I just want to let you know that the Trump stick, the stain of racism that you, William Hartman and Monica Palmer, have just covered yourself in, is going to follow you throughout history. Your grandchildren are going to think of you like Bull Connor or George Wallace. Monica Palmer and William Hartman will forever be known in southeastern Michigan as two racists who did something so unprecedented that they disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of black voters in the city of Detroit because they were ordered to. Well, he sounds nice. So they caved. Well, and listen, you know, Megan, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who accept

positions as important as those positions who say, I'm going to vote to certify. And then as soon as they're done voting to certify saying, I shouldn't have done it. Well, then you shouldn't have done it or you shouldn't have taken the jobs in the first place. And the problem I have is, okay, if there were serious irregularities in Detroit and that wouldn't shock me, well then show me.

If these two folks, the Republicans on the Wayne County Canvassing Board, think there are serious enough irregularities. Let me tell you, I'm sure that the Trump campaign would file a new lawsuit based upon this. And these guys could be witnesses one and two. Well, that may happen. That may happen because what they're saying is that there are discrepancies in nearly three quarters of Detroit's precinct poll books where ballots are supposed to be matched to qualified voters. I don't understand that either. But basically, they're saying that the ballots and the qualified voters, the numbers don't add up. There's some sort of discrepancies that they think warrants an audit at least. And I mean, it's nuts. So just do the audit. Who cares? Like, who cares? Do it. That's the case.

They shouldn't have voted to certify. Okay. And if you're going to be a public official, you've got to have a certain measure of strength. And you're going to have guys like Ned who are going to yell at you all the time. From the time I was a county elected official and the eight years I was governor, I held over 150 town hall meetings. You remember the Meg and I, people yelled at me all the time. If every time you get yelled, I had a lot of fun. If every time they yelled at you, you caved, well, then you weren't a leader, you're a follower. So listen, if they have real evidence of discrepancies in matching the ballots to qualified voters,

that's a real problem. And then they need to present that to a court. And matching, you know, the ballots to qualified voters, that's a real problem. And then they need to present that to a court. And I, like you, have confidence in the fact that our courts will not permit those kinds of things to happen if there is solid evidence to back it up. That's what I've said all along. I'm not one of these people who is yelling and screaming that the president needs to concede. I've never said that. What I've said is the president needs to show the evidence. And if he shows the evidence and there's evidence to it, you can be guaranteed there'll be tens of millions of people in this country who will support him continuing to move on with his legal challenges. But that hasn't been the case so far. If that

turns out to be the case in Wayne County, then let's do it. And let's say, let's go down the road, Megan, hypothetically and say it did change the result in Michigan. That's a lot of votes, but let's say it did. That still puts Donald Trump at 252. He's still 18 votes short of, electoral votes short of being elected president. And so we need to make sure that we keep all of that in perspective at the same time. And so I haven't been yelling and screaming, he must concede. But what I have been saying is, if you want to pursue these legal actions, you have every right to, then you've got to be willing to put evidence forward that will convince not only a court, but the American people that something was really untoward here. See, I think the court is actually, that's higher on the list of those who need to be

convinced than the American people because Trump supporters will support him. I think there was a poll recently saying something like 75% of Republicans do believe that there have been shenanigans here and that there may be fraud and may question the result. Yes, that's going to be a political problem for whoever, you know, if it's Biden in the next term, but the courts, they get the final say, right? This is, this is why we have courts. And what's bothering me about this whole thing is the Trump campaign will put out, you know, they'll put out Rudy on like Maria Bartiromo's show. And with all due respect to Maria Bartiromo, she never cross examines these guys. Like, I really want to know answers. I really I'd love to sit across from one of those lawyers and ask really hard questions. Believe me, we're trying to get them. And so you leave not knowing anything other than Rudy's spin. But in a courtroom, that doesn't work. In a courtroom, the court only takes evidence. And the lawyer's argument may or may not be relevant to the judge, but the evidence is

going to rule the day. So they do have to put up or shut up there, which is why we should all be keeping our powder dry until the lawsuits resolve. I think we can trust the results of those. But the biggest thing they have going, the most important thing I think they would say is this challenge to dominion software, which they're saying is like the voting machines used in various of these swing states that they think allegedly, Rudy claims, may have been manipulated by an outside force that votes could have possibly been changed on election night, which they're saying the Dominion and and others, independent observers are saying that's absolutely impossible. You could not do that to those machines. But that's their biggest

challenge. That's good. That's one that could wipe out tens of thousands of votes in various states. What do you think? Well, I mean, that's a high bar. Let me be clear about what I said before. That's why I put courts first and the American people second. And so I agree with you on that. The courts are going to be the most objective, most informed judges of what happened here. On the Dominion issue, listen, my understanding is those were the same voting systems in the main that were being used four years ago. And in many states, not in all states, but in the majority of states, I think Dominion voting systems are being used.

I think it's 28 out of the 50. So, you know, listen, I'm not a tech person, Megan. You know, I'm lucky if I can, you know, click onto a Zoom call correctly most of the time. So I'm not the guy to be your tech expert. I would just say this. Again, you have an obligation to show the evidence when you make the charge. My whole problem with this is, and Rudy knows this, Rudy knows this. He was a U.S. attorney and a very successful one.

You can't say, here's the charge, and I'll get back to you later on the evidence. It's irresponsible to do that. And so did they not know that these Dominion voting systems were being used in 28 states? Did they not know that they were used four years ago? We didn't hear any objection about them four years ago. Now we're hearing an objection about them now. Okay. If they've been manipulated by some outside force, who's the outside force? How are they manipulated? And where's your evidence? I can tell you that I know with these machines that they produce, they're usually electronic machines where you push buttons and hit a little button.

It's not like the old big clunky voting machines where they have a dial in the back that counts the votes, but then they produce a paper result of the votes that were happening. You hit print and it prints it out. If in fact there's some way to have hacked that machine, and I mean, thousands of machines to be hacked, and for the votes to have been changed, well, then we need to see the evidence for that. And if there is evidence for that, you can believe it will be the biggest election scandal in the history of the country. But again, my point is, I'm happy to fight that fight on the side of the president if it's true, but I've got to see the evidence that it is.

That's the thing is, is like you've got Republicans like you who you are helping Trump prepare for these debates. It's not like you were anti-Trump, who would very much prefer a President Trump second term to a President Biden term, who are saying, let's get real. I look around at the Republicans who are, you know, a lot of them are just trying to be loyal to Trump saying, well, maybe, and we should wait for this whole process to play out. But I don't see a lot saying, let me urge you voters of America to see the fraud. I just see, I sort of see loyalists trying to be kind and somewhat supportive. And, you know, you're, you were a loyalist. I mean, you're, you know, like I said, you helped prepare the guy. Have, have you talked to him at all? Do it like, do you know what his state of mind is? I don't. Um, I, I listen, I've been friends with him for 20 years. And I was the first major elected official to endorse him in late February of 2016.

I was the chairman of his transition. I campaigned for him. I spoke at his convention. And I chaired his opioid commission when he was president. You know, and I voted for him in 2016 and in 2020. So this is somebody who would prefer Donald Trump to be president to Joe Biden. But, you know, our obligation as leaders of our country is to speak the truth, the whole truth. And the whole truth here is the president has every right

to pursue the legal remedies he's pursuing and the recounts he's pursuing. But please don't tell us what the result is before the investigation has been conducted. And if you know there was fraud, then show us the evidence of the fraud. Because Megan, if this were overturned, it would create, that's why I said number two, the American people,

because it would create an absolute crazy situation in this country that we're all gonna have to deal with. And the only way to deal with that is to make sure the facts are correct. And the last thing I'd say is on, you know, legitimacy, the legitimacy issue. I think both parties better start thinking about this issue because this really started back in 2000 with Bush versus Gore. When even after the Democrats were able to take it all the way to the United States Supreme

Court and they lost, I remember being at George W. Bush's first inaugural and having when even after the Democrats were able to take it all the way to the United States Supreme Court and they lost, I remember being at George W. Bush's first inaugural and having Democrats there protesting and screaming that he was an illegitimate president. And then I remember Donald Trump leading the charge, quite frankly, during the Obama administration on this birther issue and saying that somehow he was an illegitimate president. And then we had Democrats saying because Trump had lost the popular vote in 16, and the margins were so thin in the states that he won, that he was not a legitimate president. You know, we've got to knock this off.

Elections have consequences. We need to live with wins or losses. I've been on both sides of that. I've won and I've lost. Winning's better. But when you lose, you've got to just take it, right? That's it. And I think both parties are guilty of this and we need to knock it off. It reminds me of that line from Bull Durham in Tim Robbins' character said, love winning. It's just like. New Clalouch, you know, was was a purveyor. I didn't know of electoral wisdom, but it turns out he was nicely done.

All right. So let's talk about Georgia, because whatever happens up at the top, all eyes are going to be on Georgia and these two runoffs. Now, I know that no no Republicans ever lost a runoff in Georgia, but this race could, quote, increasingly alarmed about the party's ability to stave off the Democratic challengers in these two elections. Do you do you agree with the Washington Post? Is that true? unarmed. You know, under full disclosure, I'm one of the national co-chairs of the Georgia Battleground Fund, which is helping to raise the money along with Karl Rove and, you know, Nikki Haley and Haley Barber. So people should know that when they're listening, that I have a bias, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm very concerned about the races because of everything you just said. There'll be huge national attention on it. The majority in the Senate is at stake. And you don't know what the turnout will look like on January 5th.

That being said, I feel like we have the two better candidates. I think we have the two better arguments. And I do believe that both those candidates, both Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue, will win on January 5th. But not unless, as Republicans, we are united, we put our oar deep in the water, and everybody's pulling in the same direction. And if we do that, I think we'll win both those races. But if you don't, and if we allow other things to distract us or divide us, well, then you could have a problem. The news just broke that the challenger to Kelly Loeffler, the Republican Senator, his name is Reverend Raphael Warnock. He is getting hit for comments

he made in 2011 about the military and religion. Now, this is Georgia. Keep in mind, I want to ask you how you think this is going to affect the race, if at all. Here's the soundbite. America, nobody can serve God and the military. You can't serve God and money. You cannot serve God and Mormon at the same time. America, choose ye this day whom you will serve. We've got Senator Tom Cotton saying this guy needs to remove himself from the race, that this is such an insult to everyone who served. What do you think? That's a problem. I mean, that's a big problem. That's a big problem anywhere in America. It's particularly a big problem in Georgia. And I think that, you know, everybody should take into consideration what type of senator Reverend Warnock would be if that's what he believes. How will he be on national security?

How will he be on questions of religious beliefs and protection of religious beliefs? You know, I just think that it's just unacceptable commentary. Now, should he drop out of the race? I always think that that's the candidate's choice. You know, candidate wants to stay in the race and get beat by 20 points. Well, it's the candidate's right to do it. He's got the, you know, the right from the initial election to be in the runoff. So that's his call. But I do believe that every voter in Georgia should hear those words and be deeply disturbed by those words, because I can tell you

that most of the men and women that I've met over my time in public life who serve in the military also have a deep belief in whatever faith they follow. And to say that you cannot do both is ridiculous and insulting to the people who serve our country in the military and risk their lives. So I think Reverend Warnock's got a big, big political problem that will make the Kelly Loeffler race potentially a little more decisive. Yeah, he's not running for mayor of Portland. It's a very different kind of race. I'm a member of Bill de Blasio's cabinet where that would be perfectly acceptable. I have to ask you about Bill de Blasio and Governor Cuomo here in New York, because now the New York City schools have shut down yet again, even though all the scientific studies are saying COVID is not being spread in schools.

And they also say homeschool learning, distance learning is very bad for children. Very bad. But the governor here, you are a governor, a governor of your neighboring state, New York, has written a book touting his leadership skills during covid. Meanwhile, the cases are rising. He's arguing with the New York City mayor one day after Governor Cuomo, moments after Governor Cuomo said at a press conference, you're an idiot to a reporter for asking whether the New York City schools were going to shut. They shut 10 minutes later. These guys can't get along. They're like children, de Blasio and Cuomo, touting their leadership, shut down, open up, shut down, open up, masks. Oh, wait, that didn't work. I have yet to find a New Yorker who still believes in these two. What are your thoughts? Well, listen, Mayor de Blasio, in my view, is really the cause of all this. And it's his incredibly cozy relationship with the teachers union in New York City, which is causing this. Because as you said, there's no empirical evidence that COVID is being spread in the schools. In fact, quite the opposite has been the empirical

evidence I've seen. This is him being in bed with the teachers union in New York City. This guy has been the worst mayor of New York City of my lifetime. He makes me yearn for the days of David Dinkins. And I never, I'd have a mayor who would make me yearn for the days of David Dinkins. But David Dinkins was a a mayor who would make me yearn for the days of David Dinkins, but David Dinkins was a better mayor than this guy. Governor Cuomo's in an awful tough spot as governor because, you know, de Blasio really has jurisdiction over this school system. So here you have Cuomo saying it's not going to close. And do I believe de Blasio closed the schools just to prove Cuomo wrong? I don't think he did it for

that reason, but I think it was like an extra added benefit to de Blasio. You're right that these guys don't like each other. They don't get along with each other. And now, you know, de Blasio's actions, not Cuomo's, because Cuomo, I think has all along been someone who has been very reluctant to mess with the schools. But de Blasio here, this is clearly to me a sop to the teachers union. And that's what he's doing at the grave, grave cost of lack of education for the students in the city. And it's not right. Not all of them have the ability to do things remotely or do them effectively remotely. And it's just wrong. No. Oh, especially people who are in lower socioeconomic classes. Those are the kids who get hurt the most. The cases of abuse in home abuse go up.

And once again, the teachers union, the reason America first fell in love with Chris Christie, as I was on the air watching all the moments that went viral, was your willingness to take on those teachers unions, which had previously been untouchable. And you didn't care. You would fight. You would say all the things that needed to be said. And instead, what we see is the truth, which is the teachers unions, they don't even care about the teachers. They really don't care about the kids.

They care about themselves, the group, the union itself, and its money-making ability. But the last thing on their list is kids. And man, is that manifesting in New York. They're preaching to the choir. And I lived it for eight years. I lived them beating me up for eight years, and I beat them right back. The public opinion of the teachers' union was never lower than when I was governor. And here's why, because I was actually willing to speak the truth about it. Bill de Blasio is a captive of the union movement. It is only just through the grace of reinstituted term limits that we will be done with him in another year and two months.

And when we are in New York City, I'm hopeful that the people will have learned from this awful eight-year experiment. And, you know, kids need to be in school. I think you're right. You know, Megan, these liberals constantly say that who they care about are the least fortunate. And in the educational scheme, by denying vouchers, by denying charter schools, by now closing public schools in response to COVID, the people they are damaging the most are those children and their families whose dreams are wrecked because their education can't be moved forward. And I'll tell you another thing. The thing I'm really worried about, about any further significant lockdowns, is what you alluded to. We are seeing an enormous rise in domestic violence, an alarming rise in

drug addiction, and an alarming rise in suicide. All of that is the result of the lockdowns and the economic downturn and the loss of jobs and ability to support your family that's been created by these lockdowns. And I think every public official better start thinking about when we get to a vaccine, and this is all over, what type of America will be coming back? And I will tell you, it's going to be an America that's more drug addicted, more victims of domestic violence, And we're going to have a lot of victims of suicide who didn't have to die because lots of public officials played to the grandstand and overreacted here. Yeah. And for what, right? For what? It's not spreading. The

kids are not spreading it. And they just, it's like some teachers, yes, are completely paranoid. The ones who are in the high risk groups can stay at home and protect themselves and do it from via Zoom. And the others, teachers generally tend to be young, can go in class and be distanced and have masks on. Our schools have been doing it. It's been working out beautifully. Now we do have we have a couple of vaccines coming out.

Miraculously, we got Pfizer. We've got the two other companies, Moderna. You famously, sorry, got COVID after some of those Trump debate sessions. And can you tell, how long were you in the ICU for? Seven days. Holy cow. So that must have been scary. It was. And especially the first three days were very scary. And when, listen, the thing about COVID is that this disease is random and brutal, depending upon who gets it. And when the symptoms finally hit me, they hit me like a freight train. I went from in the morning having a 96.5 degree temperature, no symptoms at all, and great breathing to six hours later feeling like I had been run over by a train and went downhill from there and ultimately had to be hospitalized. And so now I have a 20-year-old

son who caught COVID at Providence College. He quarantined himself for 14 days and never had a symptom. That's the randomness of this disease. You just don't know who it's going to hit. But we do know that if you get a little bit older, if you have asthma, if you're overweight, you know, so I go three for three on that one. And, and, you know, that, that it affects those people more. And so, you know, it was a really scary time, Megan, especially those first three days. Cause also what people don't think about is you're also in isolation. So you are by yourself with just your thoughts and you're focusing on every symptom and whether it's getting worse. And that to me, the hardest part of the first three days was monitoring myself and the fear

that came along with that. And so, you know, listen, I was someone who was very good about wearing my mask for seven months. I wore my mask every time I went outside, every time, um, you know, I was going into a group of people because I had asthma and I, and I was concerned about getting it. And I let my guard down for four days, four days in and only let my guard down and only took the mask off when I was inside the gates of the White House, because I was tested every day that I was there. And I was led to believe that everybody else was tested. Turns out that's not true. And so I think that what I want people to learn why I gave the interviews I gave afterwards and wrote the op-ed for the Wall Street Journal

was to let people know that you're not safe anywhere from this virus and that you should never let your guard down. Because the ramifications of it for me, I'm fortunate, like you said, when we got together this morning, glad you're alive, me too. And it could have gone the other way. And I have two daughters to walk down the aisle yet, and I'm not done with my life. And I'm just thankful to God and to everybody out there who was praying for me. I got an amazing number of letters and cards and emails from people who were praying for me. And I know that the great medical care I got

and the power of those prayers combined, you know, have me sitting here talking to you today. But you're, notwithstanding what you've been through, you don't sound pro lockdown, pro another lockdown. I'm not. Because I do believe that with the use of masks, with the washing your hands frequently, and with staying out of big crowds, that we can flatten this curve and we can survive

till the vaccines get here. Does that mean that no one will die? No, Megan, it doesn't. This is a pandemic. And in a pandemic, some people will die. But guess what? During the lockdown, people died too. So we can't think that there's some type of cure-all outside of a vaccine, which, you

know, both the case of Pfizer and Moderna appear to be 95% effective. People should understand how great that is. The flu shot is usually generally 50 to 60% effective. So you have a vaccine here that showed 95% effectiveness. That's going to mean a lot for this country. But until then, I don't believe we should shut down. I believe we should continue on with our lives, but taking those common sense steps. And most public health people are saying exactly the same thing. Well, I mean, whatever, whatever people may think of Trump and how he handled COVID, he does deserve huge credit for sparking the race toward a vaccine. And that's, and Pfizer was part of that. And we got one, I mean, miraculously, we got one in record time. In fact, we have now a couple companies with one that's 95% effective. And I wonder, you know, on the subject of Trump,

just to tie the two subjects we've been discussing back together. What does he do now? Let's say the legal challenges play out and they don't go in his favor. The December 14th is the date by which the electoral college delegates in each state meet to vote. There's a lot of speculation about whether Trump would ever walk out of the White House, quote, a loser, you know, which is uncharitable or, you know, having lost and whether he would ever attend an inauguration peacefully past the baton. What do you think? Well, listen, I think the president will leave on January 20th or before. I think any speculation that he would, you know, stay in the White House just is ridiculous. That's not who did not,

not the guy I know. Um, I would say that in terms of whether he'll attend the inauguration, if it's Joe Biden's inauguration, which I assume it will be, um, I think that if the president feels like he had the opportunity to pursue all of his legal remedies and that he fell short, I would hope that he would go. Um, go. And because I think it's an important part of the American transfer of power and the peaceful transfer of power for people to see that. Now, let's remember, Megan, it's not unprecedented that American presidents don't go to their successors, their successors inauguration. John Adams did not go to Thomas Jefferson's because of the bitterness of that campaign and his feelings towards Jefferson at that time. His son must

run in the family. John Quincy Adams did not go to Andrew Jackson's inaugural for the very same reason, a very bitter, ugly campaign. And Harry Truman did not go to Dwight Eisenhower's inaugural because of the really bitter feelings, even though they didn't run against each other, between Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower. So it's very rare, but not unprecedented. And so the president's going to have to make a decision about which camp he wants to be in. And I think that how he does in these legal challenges, meaning, does he believe that he got a fair hearing, may have a role to play in all that.

All right. Last question. I talked about you becoming a national star with those sparring matches. And, you know, as we saw in the debate where you basically ended Marco Rubio's presidential run, it's tough to be on the wrong side of Chris Christie in a debate. So what happens with you now? You've got to be looking a little bit towards 2024. Are we going to see you throw your hat in the ring again? Well, Megan, obviously, two weeks after the last election, you don't make any kind of decisions like that. And if you do, you're just being foolish because you don't know what life's going to bring you. But let me answer it this way. I wrote a book about a year and a half ago now on my life and my career to that point. And the title of the book was Let Me Finish. And I didn't title the book by mistake.

Nice. Good tease, Governor. So good to talk to you and reconnect. Well, Megan, it's great to reconnect with you. Good to have a Jersey Shore person on the phone with another Jersey Shore person. I am thrilled that your podcast is out there and doing so well. And I want you to continue to be a strong voice to the American people. You're an important part of our political and our cultural discussion. Keep it up. I'm a big fan. Thank you so much. Very grateful. And yeah, I'll see you down the discussion. Keep it up. I'm a big fan. Thank you so much. Very grateful. And yeah, I'll see you down the shore. You got it. And we're going to go from Christie to Carvel, James Carvel, that is political guru of the left,

always with interesting insights. And today will be no disappointment. But first, listen, no one wants to deal with cyber threats or find out that their personal information has been compromised online. It's scary, but that's especially true during the holidays when traffic is so high. But with all that holiday gift shopping and browsing online, you really could be one bad click away from a cyber threat headache. Get Norton 360 with LifeLock and help protect your identity and your devices against cyber threats. Norton 360 with LifeLock provides all-in-one protection with device security, identity theft protection, and a VPN for online privacy and more. Help protect your private and financial information when you go online with real-time device protection.

If you have an ID theft protection problem, a U.S.-based identity restoration specialist will work with you to fix it. You won't just be floating in the air trying to get through to customer service. You'll get a live human being to walk you through it. You can browse anonymously in security with a no-log VPN. It's got bank-graded encryption to help you keep your information private. No one can prevent all cybercrime and identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses. You know that. But Norton 360 with LifeLog is a powerful ally to you this holiday season. You can save 25% or more off

your first year. Just go to Norton.com slash MK. That's Norton.com slash MK for 25% off. And now, James Carville. James Carville, thank you so much for being here. Great to be here, Megan. I haven't seen you since my tenure at Fox back in like 2014, so it's good to be talking to you again. I know. I always enjoyed our discussions, and I love how you call it like you see it. You don't really care much about how people are going to look at you, which I can relate to. So let's start with where we are right now in this process. I know you thought we'd have a result either election night or within 24 hours. Not exactly, as it turns out. I know most Democrats will come up to me and say, like, he lost, right? He lost, right? Reassure me, he lost. And Republicans will look at me and say, like, does he have anything? Do you think there's anything he's got going that could really turn it? So I ask you what you think in response to those. First of all, I had a pretty good television election night. I'm pretty sure he's going to win. And in suing days, let's say the

next day and Thursday, it was evident. It's not really that close of an election. I mean, he's going to win the popular vote by somewhere between four and a% and 5%. And, you know, you get 306 electoral votes. And, I mean, some of the states, I mean, Georgia and Arizona were obviously very close. Wisconsin was close. Michigan wasn't even that close. Neither was Pennsylvania. So, I mean, yeah, we know the outcome of the election is done.

There's no doubt here. Just given the unique circumstances we're in, we just have to wait for the Electoral College to meet. But it's inevitable and it's 100 percent. It's not like, say, it won't go down in history as a, you know, really tight election. It's not a landslide, as some people hope, as I hope, but it was certainly a clear win. So do you think, so December 14th is the date by which the Electoral College delegates are supposed to meet to vote. Is that the date this is official? I think that's it. I think, you know,

when I get old, I see things, but it's around that time. But my best guess is when they actually vote. And it comes in, what effect is that going to have on Trump? What effect is that going to have on the supporters or whatnot? I have no them. And it doesn't look like they're going to win the Senate. But then I started to look at what really was happening

in the States. There was a good report in the Atlantic that kind of laid it out. And I thought, oh gosh, well, James is a good person to ask about this. This is what they said was Eric Holder. He formed this national democratic redistricting, and their goal was to flip state legislative chambers in 18 and 20 to give more power to the Democrats at the state level. And that what really happened is they failed to flip a single legislative chamber, that they lost majorities that they gained in states like New Hampshire. In Texas, they needed nine seats to win the statehouse. After they did make some inroads in 2018 and they failed to states like New Hampshire. In Texas, they needed nine seats to win the state house after they did make some inroads in 2018, and they failed to gain a single seat. They struggled in Texas, Florida, Iowa, and North Carolina,

where Trump did great and made it impossible for them to oust down-ballot Republicans. But even in states like Minnesota, they lost their majorities, which is a state Biden carried, same in New Hampshire. So how'd that happen? Well, first of all, it's disappointing from a Democratic standpoint. And just look at Florida, where $15 minimum wage got 60% of the vote, and Biden barely broke 47%.

I think that it was the whole leftist part of the Democratic Party that far left. I think they walked into a trap, to be honest with you. They're, you know, and we're just not that effective. We're not that effective in messaging down ballot. I think we got knocked out of our 2018 game, but we did quite well. And we really spent our time talking about things like the minimum wage, things like prescription drug costs, things like expanding healthcare, things like infrastructure, things that were more relatable to people. I think that President-elect Biden did a good job on that,

probably maybe lost a little focus toward the end. But there's no way that you can describe what happened below the presidential level as anything that was not an encouraging result for Democrats. What do you mean they got locked into a trap? What do you mean? Well, I think that when people started saying, defund the police, and I think a lot of people heard something that they didn't much care for. I think that

the country that made it at the moment after the George Floyd murder, I guess is the correct word to call it, or something, but I'd call it, there was a great deal of sympathy and a great deal of looking at it. The left just went way off in a really, I thought, extreme position. You know, the Democratic Party rather decisively decided what it wanted to be. You had a classic matchup between Joe Biden, who's been in Democratic politics since the 70s, and Bernie Sanders, who offered a real left-wing agenda for America. He was highly funded. It was everywhere, and Biden beat him decisively. But some of the messaging that got out and sloganeering that was going on, I think had an adverse effect.

I really do. You mean you, I know you've spoken before about the woke, the woke killing the Democrats. Some of these people need to take, they need to take a nap. Some of these people, I mean,

they don't even have a majority. They don't even have a remotely a They don't even have remotely a, they're a minority of the Democratic Party. And somehow or another, they allow, we allow them to define the rest of us. The Democratic Party made a very strong statement about that. Look at the returns and how much better Biden did than Bernie Sanders. I mean, if you want to believe in democracy, it's pretty clear where not just the country

stands, it's pretty clear where the Democratic Party stands. We've been talking about that on this show, about how big is that leftist block within the Democrats. I'm always quick to point out liberals, that's not the same as leftists. I'm a liberal. I'm a liberal. I'm a liberal. I'm a liberal. I'm not a moderate Democrat. I'm a liberal Democrat. I believe in expanding healthcare. I believe in higher taxes on wealthy people. I believe that government intervention that is smart and targeted can make people's lives better. So I'm not...

However, we can know exactly how strong they are because you can look... Again, Bernie Sanders was a classic leftist. I mean, he didn't make any bones about it. And he was very disciplined on message. He was the best funded candidate out there. He was in every debate. Everybody had a chance

to know exactly what he was for. Joe Biden is a solid candidate. I think he was described as most exciting that they've ever seen. And the result was overwhelmingly in favor of Biden. So they're not even that influential within the Democratic Party. And then the answer is,

when Congresswoman Spanberger said, you know, you told the squad that you're the reason that we lost these races, that the answer is we should have done more canvassing. I mean, come on, please, more canvassing. Is that the answer? Yeah, well, I think that AOC, I heard her in an interview with the New York Times the other day on the Daily saying, we're not to blame. It's not our messaging that's to blame. It's where our voters got out. They need our voters to get motivated. And they do get motivated by things like that. And they use those voters. And what really needs to happen is the rest of the Democratic Party needs to listen to us. Well, we just listened to you.

We listened to you. You spent hundreds of million dollars with Bernie Sanders on television. You endorsed him. I mean, we just went through this. You had a forum. You had a podium. You were there. You were defeated soundly, soundly. How about what else do you need to see? We had a contest, and the contest had a definitive outcome,

and they want a rematch after losing 65-35. Why don't you figure a way to advance your ideas within the broader Democratic coalition? Mm-hmm. All right? I mean, that day. But they have a big microphone, James. I mean, I think they've done a good job job of they have done a good job of tarring Democrats with all this woke stuff. Well, the press, a lot of the press loves this story. Right. I mean, they just love it. And the truth of that is, it's not. But on the other hand, question, they are a small part of the Democratic coalition. I mean, if you would have thought it was an earthquake that they win seats in central Boston and the Bronx,

which, you know, when they come back and win a seat that has under a partisan voting index on Cook a plus Democratic 20, I'll be impressed. I mean, they don't respect voters, all right? Democratic voters, and I'm talking about Black voters in the Mississippi Delta and suburban women in Fairfax County. They decidedly said what they wanted, and these people just don't have any respect for these voters they apparently they think that they're smarter than democratic voters i don't know and no one challenges them you had a chance you put count you get it you had the best candidate you could imagine out there there's nobody that never run for president has had more message discipline than bernie sanders he had the. He had the most everything. And if you're so mobilized and you represent so many people,

why did you get your ass beat? It's just a simple question. What do you think it is specifically? What specifically do you think is the messaging that's problematic? Well, this is a country, people keep saying this is a center-right country. I disagree with that. It's a center-left country. Again, you look at things like the minimum wage. I'm not going to argue. It's an argument that just goes on and on and will never get resolved. People did not want to ban private health insurance. It's simple. Once was not, and once people would touch it, once Elizabeth Warren touched that, she was done.

And I'm talking about within the Democratic Party. We haven't even gotten out of the Democratic Party yet to where we run in a general election. And they just, they have contempt. But first of all,

Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. I don't think AOC is a Democrat either. And at some level, they expressed contempt for our voters because our voters told them, but a lot of sweeping condemnations of Trump voters. And, you know, you got Biden at the top calling for unity, which, you know, I I'll give Biden the benefit of the doubt and say he actually would like that. But the problem isn't Biden so much as like the squad. And and just two days ago, you had Ilhan Omar out there. I'll let the soundbite speak for itself, but here's how she refers to the Trump rallies. Take a listen. He chose to speak about me at every single rally. It didn't really matter where he was. Sometimes multiple times in a day

as he held his Klan rallies throughout the country. What comes through is that she's really about herself. Okay. So we did a project. I was part of a project, and you can look it up. It's called American Bridge. We spent $80 million in 77 counties, mostly rural and small towns in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. And we had a real impact on the vote.

And what we did is we did it. It was all generic. It was all people in their own voices. You know, we created a permission structure that said, look, you know, I voted for Trump in 2016, but I feel this way. And you can, it's probably on our website. And when you look at the difference that it made, and if the Democrats have to understand, I can't pound this in the head enough. 18% of the country elects 52 senators. You can't get it done with the urban core.

I'm sorry. It's impossible. It's not going to change. The Senate is not going to change. And until you develop a broad strategy that encompasses everyone, then yeah, you can win the popular vote in the presidential election. You probably could do that fairly. And you can, you know, Biden's got an impressive win here. But if you try to run this urban strategy,

you're doomed to fail. It just, the math is not there. And, you know there. these people have ultimate safe seats, so they can say anything they want to, and then the Democrats are out there like Abigail Spanberg, who's in a not safe seat.

Thank God she won, but it was really close. They just can't accept basically the party does not agree with you. And instead of saying, how do we fit in or how do we try to advance some of our ideas in the Democratic Party, they just ignore the election results. And, of course, a lot of people don't like this, this whole tyranny. I don't know what the word is, cancel culture or whatever. But most people don't live their lives like that. And tyranny is tyranny. If it's tyranny from the right, it's tyranny. If it's tyranny from the left, it's tyranny. What do you think is going to happen now? Because some of these groups are sort of rearing up and saying, we put you in office and we expect to be to be heard. You know, there was the Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrice Cullors, who wrote an open letter to Biden and Harris saying, we want something for our vote and re-double down, we want the police defunded. And, you know, they say, if you don't want that, then you're in favor of police killing black people. And, you know, and like you say, I think the vast majority of Americans, even I think Al Sharpton came out and

said that that's nonsense. Like people don't want the police defunded. Black people don't want the police defunded. Let me just start before we go any further, there is a significant problem with policing and race in this country. There just is. And you can go statistic after statistic. You don't even have to do headline videos. So let's start with that. How does a society, because if you do,

I've seen a lot of males racist, a lot of focus groups, and one of the biggest complaints that poor people have or black people have is, well, yeah, if it's in the French Quarter, the police get there in three minutes. If it's out here in New Orleans East, it takes three hours. And, of course, I think anybody would tell you that you could certainly, they could reorient the police. You could have social workers going out and breaking up marital disputes. If we had more policemen to kill, by the way, breaking up marital disputes

than breaking up armed robberies. All right? There may be ways to have more effective policing, but we're not going to, nor should we, nor, you know, get rid of police. And by the way, the most integrated institution in the United States is high-end policing in urban areas, right? I actually would consider myself a supporter of Black Lives Matter because one of the real structures of institutional white supremacy, which I'm definitely opposed to, is that you devalue black lives. You know, you look at a crime set.

You say, well, gee, that's not my neighborhood. All right. So, I mean, the concept that the slogan is one. And when it came out, it had, remember, a lot of people supported that. Oh, yeah. The slogan. I don't think it. Right. I don't have.

I mean, and I don't understand. And I never say, yeah, but all lives matter. And I understand that. But that's not what they're saying. It's just such a history in this country, or the world, I'm sure, of just devaluing the lives of black people. I think that

in talking about how we can, you know, as a society, we can have more effective policing, more humane policing. I think a lot of people would have been open to that. A lot of people would have been open to that and understand that. But of course, they never, they're always right no matter what. So, you know, so then after you lose and everything, you said, well, you need more canvassing, please.

I mean, that's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard in my life. And your point is, it's not that we didn't get out there and canvas. It's that your message of defunding the police and related issues didn't resonate. And you got to come to terms with that. It resonated the wrong way. It resonated all right. It just resonated the wrong way. Spamburger, right?

Is that her name? Abigail. I think it's Abigail Spamburger. Sorry, Abigail. Okay. In the Virginia congresswoman who said, this defund police thing is killing us. It's killing us. We should never mention that.

And we should stay 25 feet away from socialists. But but but the response to that in the meeting by Rashida Tlaib was what you're really saying is you don't care about black voices. I mean, that're pretty powerful people. Did you see what James Clyburn said? I mean, he just had enough of them. I mean, I haven't talked to Congressman Clyburn since the election, but I've talked to him frequently before that. And he was very public about it. I feel like we've had a few black leaders come out and say, we're not for this. But I do think you're right that the media is part of the problem, because if you watched a lot of the media, you would think this is a mainstream position that people need to be canceled.

It's a small part of the Democratic Party. All they have to do is go look at the, you know, what election returns. But you know what's happening in a country. It's cultural now, right? It's like we've been talking about this on the show where your employer says you got to go to some implicit bias race training or you can't work there. And then the white people are told to just sit there in silence while they're shamed for past actions of the United States. And it creates racial division. Then it becomes partisan. I you know, that gets that gets tagged on on the Democrats, too.

Not Joe Biden hasn't really been pushing that stuff, although he did say he's bringing back these critical race theory, quote, training sessions. So how do we resolve that? I think that some people, you know, I think workplace, you can make it a genuine and more secure place for people without going like totally like overboard.

I mean, American history, the real American history is infused with enough racism to make you sick. They don't have to add more to it. The actual truth is pretty bad, but yeah, it just becomes, you know, people can't constrain themselves.

And then you get, you get, you get out there, but I'm not, you get, you get out there, but I'm not, uh, uh, you know, I mean, you know, you've faced issues in your life. And that's something you can't, sure can't say that sexism out there is not real because it is. And that there are certainly things that people can do that can, you know, it can make people more aware. It can improve people's lives. But sometimes they just go like overboard

and then you have all these like consulting firms that go sell these companies and stuff and it's like anything else. You know, there was a longshoreman philosopher back in the 80s called Eric Hoffer. And he made one of the smartest observations I've ever heard in my life. He said that every movement starts out as a cause, moths into a business, and ends up a racket.

And you can just see that in everything you see. And I'll give Trump credit. He just went right to Iraq. But most, most of the time people start, Hey, let's get together. You know,

let's, let's have a, a church and true believers and say, well, we've got to bond drives this thing. So let's, you know, pass the collection plate. And somebody says,

yeah, yeah, let's start a foundation and then we can pay everybody out of it. I mean, it just, any movement, no matter from what side, ideological spectrum that you come from or anything is always subjected to the natural evolution of things, cause, business, racket.

So what do you make of what's happening right now? And this is part of the broader messaging, but when it comes to unity, you're married to a brilliant Republican. Everyone loves your marriage because it's, sadly, it's weird for a Democrat and a Republican to be so kind to one another that they fall in love and have a happy marriage. But you know a thing or two about unity and how to get along with somebody whose political views are diametrically opposed to your own. Well, when we got married, it was more common than it is now, I guess. I don't know well first of all Trump is the greatest anti-unifier

that ever lived and hopefully President-elect Biden you know I think there are people that are kind of looking for an exit ramp but are unsure of how to do it.

And I hope that he has the wherewithal and the skills to, you know, we're always going to be a pretty divided country. It's extreme right now. But maybe, you know, everybody's hoping, well, maybe that's the guy we need. Maybe he's a little older. Maybe he's not that, you know, fiery. Maybe he seems like he's a kind of nice to everybody. I, you know, I have some, I gotta have some hope that this kind of example will help people. But there's a story by a really good reporter

that names people that they're scared to death that Trump is going to sell the nation's secrets to the Russians. This guy's named Shane Harris. You can look the story up. I had him on my podcast. So let me say, you're a journalist with 17 years reporting. You name names in your story. It was not on the condition of anonymity.

People just flat out saying it. I told my students at LSU, I sat in this classroom and said, I wonder what it would like if you were sitting here in January of 1861 or January of 1941. I don't know, maybe you're sitting here. I mean, if you look at, to me, which are the two most massive problems that this country faces, one is inequality and the other is climate, probably in somewhat reverse order

because I think inequality would be easier to fix than climate. But it, I mean, and to me, it is so evident that on every level that those two issues just dwarf everything. And I don't know how we're going to,

you know, reorient ourselves. Well, that's, can I say that's, that's what I find so impossible about it so biden gets up there and says like yeah let's what he actually said was we're united we're healed so no we're not and i don't see us getting there but but listen what he means is unite around my agenda and i'm thinking about the republicans thinking they're like yeah we're totally up for uniting

so you're gonna unite unite around around our pro-life policies? Come on over. It's great. We'll work together. We'll all be as one. We've had political divisions and disagreements. I'm just telling you, inequality and climate are existential threats. How so?

What do you mean inequality? Inequality is that if you go look at conservatives, I must tell you the same thing. The growing gap between rich people and the left and the right, are being fueled by this sense of abandonment, of inequality, of I don't have any place for me to go in my life, and the 1% or go whatever you want to call it, or take it off like that. How could anybody be idiotic enough to deny that there's not profound and adverse things happening to our climate. We had a category five hurricane in the middle of November. All right. I mean, please. That doesn't prove that

we have a climate problem. Of course not. I can't look. I'm not arguing that there's no climate change. I'd say one event, one event can't prove a thing. No. You know how we got to Hurricane Iota? Do you know how you get to Iota? Yeah, you've got to go through every other letter. You've got to go through every other letter. Then you've got to start with the Greek alphabet.

Right? That's how you got there. When you've got to go Greek. No, listen. I understand. I don't want to debate on climate Yeah, when you got to go Greek. I understand. I don't want to debate on climate change because it happens to be an issue that I feel strongly about too. I mean, I believe in it. I believe in climate change.

The only question is who's causing it. Well, of course we know who's causing it. So Biden during the debates is saying, yes, he wants to put an end to the oil industry. And then gets up there and says, unite. Well, the Republicans aren't going to agree with that. The oil companies don't want. you know what I'm saying? Like, I understand if he had said, let's lower the temperature. Tell me, tell me where Biden said, I want to get rid of the oil industry.

He said it explicitly in his second debate with Trump. I said, again, he said he'd like to see us be off of fossil fuels by 2050. So would everybody else. The unfortunate thing is we'll probably, for most part be off of most of them. The question is, what about between now and then? I mean, people are not going to stop driving cars, but I don't think that anybody is going to be driving a piston, buying a new car with a piston engine, but probably in five years. I mean, it just, and some of it is just economic.

I mean, it just seems that the battery storage capacity has gotten so, so effective. I'm just saying, he said it explicitly. You're in the oil industry. And this is a quote, here's the quote. You did too. He said, I would transition away from the oil industry. Yes. The oil industry pollutes significantly. It has to be replaced by renewable energy over time. That's as explicit as you can get from a politician. Is that controversial? Is that controversial? Yes, yes, it is. To me, that is not remotely, that is not remotely a controversial thing.

That's because of your belief system. But if you work in the oil industry in Pennsylvania. You know, people worked in the buggy whip manufacturing business. All right. People work in a lot of different things. And he didn't say he's saying we have to transform to renewables. No, he said transition away from the oil industry. Yes, he is very clear. Of course we do.

But you tell me. He said get rid of it. Look, Megan, I am just fanatical on this subject. I know. I get it. You said to your view. But let's not pretend these are universal issues we can all unite on without disagreement. You know what?

If you don't think that we need to transition from fossil fuels to renewables, I think you better try to read up and rethink this. Now, we're certainly not going to be able to do it tomorrow, but I would 100,000% agree with the statement that we need to transform from fossil fuels to renewables. I just think, you know, we're so far apart and it's going to be hard to put the egg back together because I look around as like, you got this Trump accountability project making lists of the people who quote, enabled him. Well, what I really think is screw you,

Trump accountability list keepers, right? That's politics. We work for Republicans. We work for Democrats. We move on with our lives. There's no point in demonizing an entire group of people as they're going to have, you know, I think you'll probably have a difficult time without employment.

I think you know that people have a right. You know, people have a right. That's in free speech. If you say, I don't, I don't think you should hire this guy because of that, or you should hire someone, I don't know. That's not where my head is. You know, people, human beings, George Mitchell said that, you know, only human beings can make war, and only human beings can stop wars. And to say that we can't get through this I think is to not give history its due at some point. I mean,

in every threat that we have by death in the world that we deal with, my opinion is nothing but worse. And maybe the president-elect and maybe the new Congress,

you know, who knows? Maybe they'll, I don't know, maybe they'll get moved by the Holy Spirit or something. I have no idea. But I mean, that's kind of what I'm hoping for. But I think his tone is going to be,

you know, I think he's trying to do what he can to at least bring a more perfect union. Not, you know, even the founders didn't think we could have a perfect union. But I think there's real progress to make. I think he's going to try. I hope he makes it. Yeah. Well, listen, yeah, I do believe in rooting for the president of the United States. You may not love his agenda, but we got to we got to root for our president because we're Americans and I'll be rooting for him.

Same as I rooted for Trump to do well and do well on behalf of the country. And, you know, whatever you think of the policy, America, America first and all it brought that that is a principle sort of like Black Lives Matter, just as a principle, we can get behind. And I hope Trump remembers it over the next month. And I hope Biden remembers it when dealing with his with the squad and others who are trying to pull him leftward. James, this reminds me of our debates on Fox. I always loved him and I loved today's as well. Thanks for being here. You bet. I appreciate it. James Carville. That's why they call him the Ragin' Cajun. You know, he's from Louisiana and he's spicy and that's what we love about him. So it was great talking to him. It was great talking to Chris Christie as well. Super fun reconnecting with both of them. I want to tell you something quickly about Super Beats Soft Chews, because listen, friend to friend here, if you haven't tried them, you're missing out. I love these things. Superbeet Soft Chews make me feel more energized without the like jittery jittery feeling of coffee. Plus they really taste great.

More than that, they are packaged so conveniently you can just throw them in your bag before you head to work so you got them on the way or while you're at your place of business. Superbeet Soft Chews combine non-GMO beets with a powerful new ingredient, grapeseed extract. The grapeseed extract used in Super Beets Chews has been clinically shown to be two times as effective at supporting normal blood pressure as a healthy lifestyle alone. That's good. You can take just two of these things anytime, anywhere, to a day to get the blood pressure support you need. So do what I did and support your heart health with delicious Super Beets Chews Get your Super Beats shoes today at getsuperbeats.com slash MK. And when you buy two bags, which why wouldn't you, they will throw in the third for free. How do you like

them apples? How do you like them Beats? That's getsuperbeats.com slash MK. And you're welcome because you're going to love them. Now we want to bring to you a feature that we call Asked and Answered here on the show, where you guys write in a question. And if I'm able, I'll give you an answer. And for this, we bring in our executive producer, Steve Krakauer with the question, the man with the questions. What's up, Steve? And we've been getting lots of great questions. They are being sent to us at questions at devilmaycaremedia.com. Send them in. We'll get them answered. This one comes from Emily Tift, who says she's a huge fan of yours and truly believes what she hears when she listens to

the show, which is great. But she wants to know, how can we know who and what to believe and who to trust when we get our news? She wants a recommendation of a few others who you can go to and get unbiased facts. Hi, Emily. Thank you so much for that. She wants a recommendation of a few others who you can go to and get unbiased facts. Hi, Emily. Thank you so much for that. That's a good question. And maybe it will soon change. I'm not sure because it looks like we're going to have a Biden administration soon. But I will tell you for now and for the past four years, I have chosen to trust disaffected Republicans. In other words, Republicans who are not never Trumpers, but who aren't totally on board with Trump, because these are guys who are not biased against Republicans, but are not Trump sycophants. So they can see him.

They're kind of rooting for him, you know, like they're open minded to his successes, but they're not robotic in their love for Trump. And so they can report on him fairly. And for that, I love National Review. I love those guys, Rich Lowry, Charles C.W. Cook, who we put on this program. I like their podcast called The Editors.

And I just love their website. You can sort of search around for the folks who you trust. I also, as I've mentioned before, I go to realclearpolitics.com every morning. and I just love their website. You can sort of search around for the folks who you trust. I also, as I've mentioned before, I go to realclearpolitics.com every morning, and you can see editorials from the left and the right. And if you read both sides of an issue, the truth will emerge. And that for me has always been super helpful under any administration. So that's where I'd start if I were you. To my apartment, I get the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. That's just too laborious

to go through two full papers every morning, try to compare and contrast for facts. And the journal's very business oriented, which is not really what I'm looking for. And the Times is so far left that both are proving to be less and less useful. Though I do love that New York Times crossword, but only on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday,

and then it just gets humiliating. Anyway, those are my thoughts. But it's a good question, Emily, especially in today's day and age. On that note, I want to tell you that today's episode was brought to you in part by Norton 360 with LifeLock. Protect yourself from cybercrime with the top trusted ally in today's connected world. Go to Norton.com slash MK to learn more. Thank you all so much for listening. In the meantime, if you got a minute, go over, subscribe to the show, download the show,

rate the show five stars, if you please, and drop me a review. I love connecting. I read them all. I do. And we've gotten actually quite a few good guest ideas in there. And people give me lots of performance tips.

It's actually really fun to get the feedback. So anyway, you got to subscribe to make it happen and download, rate, and review. So thank you for doing that and have a great weekend. We'll see you Monday. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. The Megyn Kelly Show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.