The Megyn Kelly Show - Exclusive interview with Laurence Fox About His Arrest and GB News Exit, and Dangers Parents Face with Their Kids on Trans Ideology, with Dr. Miriam Grossman | Ep. 642

Episode Date: October 6, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Laurence Fox, leader of The Reclaim Party in the UK, for his first interview since his release from jail and exit from GB News to talk about his firing, arrest, cancel culture, the difference between free speech in the UK and the US, his relationship now with Dan Wootton, why he’s "scared” of staying in Great Britain, and more. Plus, Dr. Miriam Grossman, author of the new book “Lost in Trans Nation,” joins to discuss the trauma parents endure when their child wants to transition, Los Angeles elementary schools celebrating “National Coming Out Day”, why parents need to stay on top of what their children are being taught in schools, and more.Fox: https://www.youtube.com/c/ReclaimTheMedia_Grossman: https://www.miriamgrossmanmd.com Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday. Oh, we have a great show lined up for you today. In just a bit, we're going to be joined by Dr. Miriam Grossman. She is so brave and so smart for the latest in the transgender movement plaguing children across the country. Remember, she just wrote the book Lost in Trans Nation. She was featured in What is a Woman by Matt Walsh at the Daily Wire. And she's one of the few in the psychological community speaking truth about this massive issue. But we begin today with a guest we were originally supposed to speak with on Wednesday,

Lawrence Fox, now formerly of GB News. But we couldn't talk to him on Wednesday because he was arrested that morning. The story of his firing and arrest is one of the biggest stories in the UK right now. And there's a lot of warning signs in this story for us here in the US as well. You're going to be able to relate, sadly, to a lot of what's in this story for us here in the U.S. as well. You're going to be able to relate, sadly, to a lot of what's being done to him. Today, he is here with us for his first interview since getting released from jail and getting fired from GB News. Lawrence, so great to have you here. How are you? I'm OK, Megan. Thanks. I've just had a thank you. Also, thank you so much for having me on your show. I think I said to you in a text that my kids are huge fans.

And they go, can you, they say, can you turn that annoying man off? Which is Ben Shapiro because he talks so fast. And you said my little 11 year old son who's with me goes, can we put the nice lady on now? So I'm okay. It's been a very, very strange, um, period of time. Yeah. I've, I've had a lot of reflection over how odd what's going on is. And, um, but yeah, I'm okay. I just, I'm a criminal barrister. Criminal lawyers just left my house to tell me what I'm, you know, what I'm facing

for, um, for my views. Yeah. Are you feeling, and we're going to get into all of it, but are you feeling like traumatized right now? Are you in shock still about the events of this week? What, how would you describe your emotions right now? My, my emotions are of a deep, deep sadness because, um, I feel for the first time, and I've never felt this before that this war in some ways may be not worth fighting and when i say that i mean that it my father would characterize this as the wicked you know the the other side you know he'd say the wicked and i would say that the wicked are so organized they're so well protected and defended against uh for their position that they organized a mass pile on against gb news gb news folded like a like a cheap suit and then um

i came out and i i always come out fighting and for the first time i thought this silent majority that everyone talks about and people stop me in the street and go, you know, thank God for you. You're representing a silent majority. I thought, well, you're silent, guys. So is this a war worth fighting? So I felt a bit demoralized today until I met my criminal barrister, who was hilarious. I was saying yesterday on the show, I don't know the UK law very well, but I cannot imagine, like I looked up just the elements in order to be guilty of a conspiracy to do anything. And they're alleging you conspired to commit a criminal act. There has to be an agreement. There has to be an agreement. There was no agreement. You were on television saying, I'm going to join these people who are taking down these security cameras that nobody consented to, that are supposed to monitor our emissions from our cars.

And they're sending out fines to us. No one voted for it. No one approved it. I'm going to join them. Who agreed with you? Maybe that group is like, we hate Lawrence Fox. We don't want his kind. Get him out of here. We don't need his help. But there's no agreement. This thing's going to fall apart. It's a joke. And it does seem to me like an attempt to harass you. And I don't believe it's not linked to the controversy controversy that's been swirling around you since your comments on GB News, which we have also been discussing on this show. Are you allowed to talk about any of that? Yes, I can talk about all of it, even though

that in the home of free speech's termination package, they say that you're not allowed to disparage the home of free speech with free speech. So that in itself is kind of funny. Yes, GB News, the home of free speech, they speech. So that in itself is kind of funny. Yes, GB News, the home of free speech. They should have a rebrand, I would imagine. Yeah, I can talk about anything. I'm not allowed to say two words as part of my bail conditions, but I'd like to say at this point that my favourite film ever made is Blade Runner.

What a great film that is. That's what I'd like to say. Okay. Everyone's going to have to go and watch it again so that we're reminded of Lawrence's defense. Let's just set it up for the audience members who haven't been listening to the show steadily and didn't hear. Just a quick refresher. There was a woman named Ava Evans who went on this talk show in Great Britain, and she made some comments that were very dismissive of male suicide. I actually listened to you on Trigonometry, which I love too, a great podcast. And they cut a very nice soundbite from the exchange that set this whole thing off. I stole their cut of it because I liked how they did it. Here is the thing that got Lawrence upset.

He made comments then in response in GB News, which got him ultimately fired and I think now in jail. Here's what she said. A conservative MP, new role would champion issues such as reducing male suicide. Would that be something you'd be in favor of? Well, what's interesting about that is the hostility it sometimes faces whenever it comes up. I saw a program where there was like a feminist academic and a Lib Dem MP, and they were so hostile to this idea. And I thought if you flipped those things, i.e. the biggest cause of death for men under 50 is suicide, men are less likely to go to the doctors,

men are less likely to maintain friendships. If that was for women, we'd have to look at, well, why is society making that happen? Whereas with men, the argument is often, why are they doing that to themselves? So I'm not like totally wedded to the idea, but hostility towards the idea I find it instructive over I think that it feeds into the culture a little bit this minister for men argument like that in my mind I think there should be a minister for mental health which would be all-encompassing I mean you've got something

like seven million children waiting for prescriptions for mental health at the moment it's a crisis that's endemic throughout the country, not specific to men. And I think, you know, a lot of ministers kind of bandy this about to sort of, I'm sorry, but make an enemy out of women, I think. Not you, and I don't think your book is. I don't accept that. I don't think it is to make an enemy. If we looked at during COVID, men were literally more likely to die from COVID.

I don't really want to cast myself as a meninist or one of these guys from the manosphere, because that's not who I am. But I do find it interesting that sometimes the arguments tend to throw it back. But who was doing all the work during COVID? You know, a lot of the time, if you looked into people's households, it was the women who were taking on the laundry, the school care,

all of that alongside doing their jobs. But I'm not disputing any of that. What I'm saying is that there are specific issues that men face that might warrant specific attention. I mean, literally, the biggest killer of men under 50 is suicide. That is an arresting statistic. And if that doesn't warrant specific attention, mental health is an umbrella issue. I have to say that is also because women are unsuccessful. That is a lot of, that is, feeds into that statistic. But it feels like, it just doesn't

feel like you've got any space for this idea that men might have unique challenges to face. Well said. He was exactly right. And when you watch the longer clip, you can really I feel the frustration you felt. She is dismissive at every turn. Over and over, he tried to say, look, because there is a minister for women. He was just trying to say, look, men have their own specific mental health issues. And they're this is the leading cause of death for men under 50. And we really might need somebody to help start looking into this. No, no, no. Even when he said, look how many men died during COVID.

And her response was, but look who was doing all the work inside the house. What does she do? She was the one making it a tit for tat issue, refusing to acknowledge the problem. So let's just start there. She displays quite a lot of misogyny. And I think, you know, genuine misogyny, which is like women did all the housework and all that stuff. I'm a single father. I raised my two boys. I do all the housework. You know, it's like if we're looking for equality in the gender roles, then we

should look for genuine equality in the gender roles. What she did and what really upsets me to this moment is diminish the idea that men suffer too. And it's like, how dare you? And then turn around and say to me, oh, you're a misogynist. It's like, I'm not a misogynist. I'm just going, my point was badly made, right? I could have expressed it a lot better. But my point is, how dare you belittle the suffering of men because when they take their own lives of which i know

at least two that you know that sear into my mind on every every single day they didn't say anything they didn't speak up exactly because of women like her who belittle the idea that men also feel and think and worry and you know and take their own lives as you quite rightly pointed out it's an arresting statistic that this stuff happens so still to this day a week later I'm sat there going I'm so angry with you I'm so angry with that comment being allowed to pass like it like nothing in the night I'm I'm appalled that we live being allowed to pass like nothing in the night. I'm appalled that we live in a country that allows that to happen. The callousness of her tone and the way she addressed this very serious issue.

And I feel it too, Lawrence. I haven't, thank God, lost anybody in adulthood to this. But my cousin shot himself in the head and died when he was 16. And it was the most horrific event of that piece of our family's lives. They've never fully recovered. It's absolutely deeply alarming. And like so many other men and boys, he succeeded, quote unquote, on the first try. And there was no warning. They didn't know.

This is the pattern with men and teenage boys. They don't reach out for help. They don't get diagnosed with anxiety or depression. And even when they do, they're mocked. They're mocked for it. And yet when they try to kill themselves and they try to die by suicide, they succeed at it. It doesn't it's not a cry for help. They really want to end it. And it's part of because we the reason is we stigmatize mental health. We make them seem weak if they want mental health. And this what she did on that show is hashtag part of the problem. Yeah, because look, we're facing and all of us would understand that we're facing

a massive underreporting of sexual assault in women. And I don't have any female friends who have not had a really unwanted male attention or be a lot worse you know I don't have any female friends who've not been through that so what she's doing essentially is she's undermining her own cause to turn herself into the victim of a situation and I think that's absolutely morally repugnant. So, like, it's amazing that it makes me emotional even now. It upsets me to hear her say that and to belittle it. Because I've, you know, I've spoken to people who were driving behind someone in a tank in Basra during the war in Iraq. And the tank slipped off the passageway and turned over into a marsh.

And they had to comfort someone or an entire tank crew as they sank into the mud and died. And the person that came back was not the person I knew. I didn't know them. They were like a different human being. And you can have all the conversations about the war and everything like that and all of that sort of stuff but the man i saw was not the same man i saw when he went away and you know we can we can talk about the fact that women have uh less opportunities in life i i would say that women have as many opportunities in life as men do if they want them you're living proof of these. These days, for sure. Yeah. But we can also turn around and say that, you know, men, 99% of people who die in war are men, you know, formally, as opposed to civilian casualties. And, you know, this idea of masculinity being in some way toxic and part of a culture war, which is what she did, which was to diminish the idea that her fellow human beings you know created

equal in the eyes of god are in some way being used as part of a culture where i find repellent i i just i don't have any other words for it and i wasn't able to control myself and what i should have done is i should have attacked her point but instead i turned around and said if you find this uh if you end up with a woman like that, you're going to commit yourself to a life of misery. That's what you're going to do. Because a lot of people would agree, but hold on. I want to get to your comments in one second, but let's not leave her comments yet. Because what I see in this exchange is her expressing man, hatred, misandry. And that's what she were responding. She's got

a long pattern of it. This woman, if you look back through her social media posts, which I know you've put up, she's constantly saying, I wouldn't shag him. I'm not going to shag you. I'm not going to do this as a thing. She, she loves this term and she loves to say it about men who she finds weak or offensive or what have you. And she also referred to men as the most potent or most dangerous virus of them all. And then she goes out there and is dismissive over and over of the other guy who's being very respectful of his attempt to say, you know what? Men have unique problems and it's manifesting in suicide. Something we should know. No, no. So you respond to what is clearly her

hatred of men on some primal level. And you do it in a way that is scathing, crass, but heartfelt. You try to use humor. I was there. I watched it. I was sitting on the set watching this happen, sitting on the set over here, but I was up next on Dan's show. And I totally got where you were coming from, what you were doing and what happens. It's, it's like more hatred toward a man. Now the hatred this time is toward you in particular and no one. Yeah. Okay, fine. You can get, you should spend one minute talking about the way in which Lawrence expressed himself, but zero minutes were devoted to why, to anything she said, to any of her comments. And so I really think that's, that's one of the reasons why you're feeling

traumatized. That's my word. I think you're feeling that. Now it's happening to you. But I let down men in that situation because I should have said, I should have attacked her point. That would have been better because the point is weak. She's weak in A, what's the point in responding to some shock jock who wants to turn up on tv and say these horrible things and try and increase her profile god knows for for what reason um i i i do reflect and i do try and adopt some humility in this situation and i thought i let down the side of the argument of the men many many thousands of people have contacted me with messages of their partners their male partners uh killing themselves and this is as jeff norcock quite rightly pointed out in the show people are many killing themselves in great numbers that they're being toxified

they're being i'd hate to say this in a sort of in a way which wasn't nuanced, but very, very feminized. And it's it's it's very, you know, I feel I let myself down, actually. And that's the bit that upsets me. I should have just turned around and taken a point and attacked it with everything I have, because that's what I usually do. But this particular issue just stigmatized, it got me in woke parlance. It triggered me so much that I just thought, who would want to shag that? And I'm sorry, I'll say it again now that I've been fired. Who, which man, what self-respecting man would want to find himself in a relationship with a woman who hated men that much? Yeah. You know, I understand. I think you're being too hard on yourself. I mean, I've said this to you privately and I say it publicly. You know, I, I understand. I think you're being too hard on yourself. I mean, I've said this to you privately and I say it publicly. You're being too hard on yourself.

Your countrymen are being too hard on you. You made a crass comment expressing heartfelt sentiment about the mental wellbeing of men and someone who is dismissive of them. Okay. You could spend one minute saying, sorry, it wasn't nice. The way I put it, it was obviously an attempt to use humor to make a point on a show that was airing at 930 in the evening. The fact that they are treating you like you're Harvey Weinstein is wrong. It's wrong. This is a joke. So this is what you actually said for the audience at home. It was now like, what the hell did he say? Here's what he said. He went on GB News, which is supposed to be Great Britain's, not exactly their Fox News, but the closest thing that they can get with this government regulator called Ofcom that literally listens to everything

that's said and scolds you if it's not perfectly fair and balanced. So they're trying to offer this free speech alternative to the BBC. And Dan's got the most successful show on GB News. And I've appeared on it once a week since it launched. And you've been appearing on it regularly since launch. So did Calvin Robinson, who was on the show yesterday. Here's you that night responding to Ava Evans' comments. Show me a single self-respecting man that would like to climb into bed with that woman ever.

Ever. Who wasn't an incel. Who wasn't a cucked little incel that little woman has been fed spoon-fed oppression day after day after day after day starting with the lie of the gender uh wage gap and she sat there and i'm going like if i met you in a bar and that was like sentence three, chances of me just walking away are just huge. We need powerful, strong, amazing women who make great points for themselves. We don't need these sort of feminist 4.0. They're pathetic and embarrassing. Who'd want to shag that?

Oh, Lawrence. Well, look, she... Sorry. Well, look, I'm just going to provide a touch of balance from her because she did actually respond to this earlier today, saying that she regretted her comments, but she didn't apologize. Yes. So there you go. And she's a very beautiful woman, Lawrence. Very beautiful. There you go. First of all, Dan gave it the old college try to give the required balance that these government regulators apparently require. But I mean, to me as an American, it's offensive

that he even had to do that. Like, why did he have to do that? The whole point of a Fox News or a GB News is to provide balance to the mainstream conversation that is entirely happening the opposite way, right? There's one message. Does the BBC really provide a lot of balance that's fair to people who are more conservative? No. So it's like the fact that GB has to make sure they contradict anything that is said, you know, that's controversial or about somebody on the left. It's just absurd to me. I hate the whole system. So you said it, your life exploded.

And even you were taken aback, I think, by the size of the reaction. Yeah, absolutely. I think that it was, I think that there was a very well organised, there was a woman in the green room, who was about to go on next, who shared it with Ava. And she began the pile on and it was very organised media pile on it wasn't, you know, or as the Andrew Tate people would call a matrix attack. And I woke up the next morning, because I was like, me and Dan were talking about it and we're going, that was quite funny. And it's, you know, and poor old Dan, who essentially he's a vulnerable guy. You know, he's not used to being attacked in the way that I'm used to being attacked. And he was bullied into making these apologies, these groveling apologies to do it. But, you know, ultimately, I was just trying to say a simple point, which is that we need some balance. And GB News, what they've done to themselves while casting themselves as saying with free speech, hang on quickly, let's do a little diversion here. Paul Marshall, who is the father of Winston

Marshall, who was cancelled for a month, Mumford and Sons, who I spoke to every single day during his cancellation period. And I was trying to say, don't throw Andy Ngo under the bus. Don't do this. I supported him. Paul Marshall is his father. He owns GB News, or part of his Legatum consortium owns GB News. He's now trying to buy the Daily Telegraph, the right-wing or centre centre right newspaper in the UK. And he's basically positioning himself as the UK's kind of free speech champion, whilst firing everybody who doesn't say what he wants them to say. And I think that's a concerning aspect as well. GB News have also have someone that is on the record as of paying off a female journalist who was the victim of sexual harassment from someone

very senior in the organization so when they talk about this idea that they love free speech and that they love you know we've got values and all this sort of stuff none of it's true within the office space and none of it's true within the organization and it as freedom lovers and as people who believe in the idea of free speech being the cure to the problem between us and them, if there is an us and a them, which there is at the moment, they've just opened themselves up to some unending attacks. Because what's it going to be the next person who says something wrong? They're going to go cancel it and they're going to go, OK, we'll cancel them too. They're not the home of free speech. They're the home of cancel culture.

And their audience is halved in a week. And I was hugely, they hired me knowing I'm a maverick. You know, they knew what I was like. And the minute it came down, and I suppose the broader point here, which I think is important, is that we're losing, Megan, those that believe in in free speech free expression being the answer the way out of this open honest discussion with the convert with

with the convincible members of the other side you know a moderate democrat for example in terms of american politics we've now lost the argument because what they do is they organize the strong come together and they organize very very well and they take the week with them what they do is they organize. The strong come together and they organize very, very well and they take the week with them. What we do is we just beg for our jobs. And I just think it's a very uneven battlefield. And I, you know, I don't, I don't see how we get out of this easily. There, there have been so many comments made on the left, on the BBC and elsewhere that have gone completely ignored. This Ofcom, this government group that oversees all the cable channels, and not to mention now they're going to

be taking over digital. They don't care. Here's just one. We just pulled this one because we covered this. This is the Bridgerton actress who was watching the coronation. And here was her observation back in May of 2023. It's not 11. We've gone from the rich diversity of the Abbey to a terribly white balcony. I'm very struck by that. I'm also looking at those younger generations and thinking, what are the nuances that they will inhabit as they grow? Well, so because it's a problem to be so white. You see, if you're white,

terribly white, that's a problem. You need to do something about it. Terribly white. My God, not just white. That's what I am. As white as they come. Super white, transparent, translucent. But she doesn't like that. You need more melanin in your skin. No discipline there. She was fine. Then there's BBC News at 10. They featured an Indian historian saying Winston Churchill was seen as the precipitator of mass killing due to allegations of his failure in this famine of 1943. No problem. Usage of N-word in a news report about what happened in Bristol, sparking more than 18,000 complaints from viewers. Yours only sparked 8,000. Journalists are still with the BBC. They don't fire. It's different. Another guy, Tim Wilcox, accused of anti-Semitism. He's still with the BBC. Very different story if you say it over on the BBC. And frankly, I've got to be honest. I have sat on the set of GB News, well,

my set, but via satellite, with Dan saying things not too far afield from what you said. I can't find the sound, but I looked for it. But I know I said something about Harry and how pathetic and a feat he seemed after he failed to fight back against William and he fell against the dog bowl and he went crying to his wife. I remember saying something like, my God, who would want to sleep with him? Something to that effect. I guess I'm allowed to say it on GB News, but you're not?

Well, you know, here lies the problem. The UK is totally unprotected against attacks on free speech. The Americans and their founders and those that wrote the Constitution understood the idea that there is going to be tyranny as mankind moves towards leisure, which is what's happened, you know, as much as poverty still in the world and still in my own country, totally ignored by everybody.

But ultimately, people are moving towards leisure. So they understood that society was going to get better. And they understood that what would happen, therefore, was tyranny would begin to invoke itself into the society that was taking place. So they created a First Amendment, which was the protection of free speech. Free speech, cornerstone of any liberal secular democracy or a Republican or an American Republic or whatever. But also the other one is the presumption of innocence. So the attack on me came very quickly

after the Russell Brand allegations, which were made on a TV show, and a lot of it was played by actresses, and it didn't hold huge amounts of public interest to me or to the public generally. I'm just to interrupt you. This was so crazy. You shouldn't even be, you should not be mentioning him in the same breath as your story.

These two stories have absolutely no similarity to one another. Russell Brand is accused by what, four different women of sexual assault, rape, repeated sex, and taking advantage of a minor, forced sexual acts on a minor while he was 31. Believe him or not, those allegations are not in the same universe as who would want to shag that. That's nothing. It's a stupid ass joke. It's insane. Don't even mention, whatever, even if you think Russell Brand is totally innocent of all of it, these things should not be compared. But your story, the latter story, seems to me to have gotten more coverage and caused even more outrage. Yeah, I think the point I'm trying to make is that as I was speaking to the guy who backs the Reclaim Party, he said to me, oh, my God, you will get cancelled for shagging too many people and you'll get cancelled for not wanting to shag anybody. So, you know, at what point can a man express any emotion about his fellow man? And, you know,

we're in a very, very, very, very strange time. And to me, it seems like it's accelerating. And I worry that I don't like sides because I like free speech. I like people to exchange ideas and I like the best ideas to win. And I said to you, as I spoke to you on the phone, I love your shows where you do the law stuff because you go, you break it down and you go, what's legally and what's legally relevant. But I was, I don't think I've committed some cardinal sin. Otherwise I wouldn't have said it.

And I'm happy to say it again. I'm just, what I'm doing is I'm reflecting because I am someone who is trying to find some humility in life. I'm going, could I have said it better? Yeah, I could. But I'm not comparing myself to Russell Brand. I'm just saying that the media storm was convenient because they knew that Russell Brand

wasn't going to land as a story because they wanted to kill him off't going to land as a story because they wanted to kill him off. So they thought, oh, who's next? And they end up at my door as they frequently do. And then you got arrested. The weirdest twist in this whole thing. So in between your mass media coverage on this issue, this nothing burger, and your suspension from GB News, you went on our old pal Majid Nawaz's podcast. He's come on with me on Fox all the time. Now he's got a podcast. And you went on.

And you were talking not about this instance in the thing that got you in trouble. You were talking about these cameras that I referenced at the top of the show have been put up in London. They're monitoring cars for emissions that go beyond some certain standard. And, you know, a lot of people in London are saying, who, who told you you could monitor us with these cameras and send us these fines without our consent? And so this civil disobedience group is running around cutting down the cameras. And you went on Nawaz's podcast and said you would join them. I think we have the soundbite. I'm trying to find the number.

Yeah, I think it's SAT4. Yeah, go ahead. I would encourage mass, mass removal of the surveillance state because once it's there, you cannot remove it. Are you interested in testing the law around this

if some people get arrested? I would be happy to be arrested myself. I won't be. When I go out and take their cameras down, which I will be doing, I will be taking my phone with me so they know exactly where I am. Because the Bay Brothers are clever.

They know what they're doing. I would happily sit there and go, who voted for this? What's your evidence for the Outer London Clean Air for this what's your evidence for the out of london clean air zone what's your evidence for that why are you doing this you know i'd sit there and do it but i do that i've got several court cases going on as you know but um yeah i would and then the next thing you knew the cops showed up can you just describe what happened when the police showed up yeah so i so I was sat in the House.

Andrew Bridgen, who's our MP, the only MP, by the way, in the Western world, who is going to get a debate in the Houses of Parliament, the mother of all parliaments on the excess deaths that are taking place across the developed world as a result of the last two years' work. He was here, and I got a knock on the door and six policemen barged straight through my door and they took my children's devices they took my own devices hence why i'm on an iphone to you a new iphone and um they were very very confrontational and difficult they didn't want me to broadcast it wouldn't say anything about it at the time I was taken to a police station and

the thing that really resonates at times of great difficulty and I don't think I am going through times of great difficulty by the way because I think there are a lot more worse things going on I'm sat next to a policeman in the car they're reporting suicides and knife crime and they're going we're busy we can't go there there. We're en route to the police station with criminal number one, me. And I get to the police station. The guy in the next holding cell to me has got bags, forensic bags on his arms.

He's got blood all over his body. He's obviously been doing something which is pretty not good. And I'm sitting there going, how come I'm, this is a political takedown. You're taking me down because A, I was a journalist up until about halfway through my incarceration, my mild incarceration. And B, I lead a political party. So it doesn't look good for the police to send six guys into my house,

especially when you've got a guy, Chris Packham, who is a, he's a, he's an autistic nature presenter. And, you know, he has that, he's been saying, I think it's fine to break the law, to save the, save us from the sun monster. It's very Aztec, this whole thing. It's very, it's very sort of, you know, okay, well, if the crops don't work this year, let's just sacrifice some people. And we're going through the digital version of that here. So I went to the police station. I was locked up in the police station.

A couple of police officers came around and gave me a brownie because obviously they like to remind you they're in charge. And one of them leant through the door of my little, pulled down my slot, my cell, and he went, we're right behind you, Loz. And I went, thanks, man.

And he went, we all watched the Delling pod. And I was like, so I found it funny. I mean, a lot of it is so absurd. It's funny. The idea that we're living in it. The cops are probably with you.

I mean, it tends to be the elites who like to enforce the world order such as we're describing it. I do. I should mention to the audience, you are the leader of a political party. It's called the Reclaim Party. And we pulled this and I'd actually never seen a formal description of it. But this is what my team gave me. Reclaim intends to change freedom of speech laws and to depoliticize the police and other public institutions.

Well, there you have it. Of course, this is problematic. Reclaim says it will actively field candidates at the next general election, both to directly take seats and to actively target and unseat MPs, members of parliament who have sold Britain down the river. So you've been doing this since 2020. And so you are a political figure now under arrest for what your political views for saying you would do something that you hadn't done something for a conspiracy, which requires an agreement that was never struck, embarrassed, humiliated, property seized, that of your children as well. Now people can say what, that you're an accused criminal in addition to being an alleged

misogynist. And great, we're done with Lawrence. Yeah, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, the law works in mysterious ways. And I have a feeling that the legacy media have managed to put themselves in a position where they've killed themselves. You know, the people that would have tuned into GB News would have been the people that said, I'm bored of being lied to by the singular narrative,

the monochromatic narrative of the mainstream media, which is there's an imminent terrible climate crisis. It's a really good idea to trans your kids. And teaching everyone about skin colour privilege is a really good idea. I would turn around and offer the Martin Luther King defence and say, you know, it's what's going on in your heart, which is more important, which originally got me into trouble. I would say it's probably not a good idea to put children on experimental uh hormone therapy bearing in mind that you know you give a a boy a load of estrogen or a girl a testosterone that that's just not a good idea and um for that i am yeah i'm persona non grata in this country. And I think we're witnessing the manifestation of virtue signalling becoming reality.

So we have a prime minister in this country who turns around and goes, there's uncontrolled immigration, of which there is in this country. And that's, I love immigration. I think it's great. If you've got, if you want to come to our country and provide and be brilliant, do it.

But don't break the law to do it. And we're witnessing a prime minister who says, I'm going to stop the boats, or I'm going to stop the indoctrination of children in school. But actually, all he's doing is virtue signaling that he's going to do that. He actually doesn't do anything about it. No one does anything about the fact that you're taking entire communities of people and putting them amongst, you know, in England, we're like America, you know, we have the red bits and the blue bits and the blue bits of the cities. But they're putting the immigrants in the, who didn't bring their wives and children, by the way, they just came by themselves, in amongst, you know, fleeing war. I mean, forgive me for being an old-fashioned toxic male,

but if I was fleeing war, I would make sure my wife and my children were safe well ahead of me. They're putting them in communities where people that have been living for hundreds of years side by side are really struggling. And we've had this problem with the Batley. There's a story of a Batley teacher who showed a picture of the Prophet Muhammad

as part of a lesson on blasphemy. So it was a lesson on blasphemy. And what happened was he showed the cartoon from Charlie Hebdo, which got a load of people shot, by the way, you know, as you well know. And this guy's hiding for his life in this country. And my objections to any of this stuff

greeted relentlessly with the idea that I'm in some way some terrible, vile racist. And I'm like, well, no, if you love your country and you believe in its histories and traditions, then you should probably support the fact that we live somewhere. It's our home, right? And we're witnessing the end of the West.

And we have no, in England, we have no protection against it. None. We don't have a First Amendment. We don't have a Second Amendment. All we have is a cultural import from the United States, which is going to be the downfall of the entire of our country. That's what I think. Mm.

Douglas Murray, Spencer Clavin, they've both written books on this war on the West, outlining the very same concerns that you're outlining as well. Stand by one minute, quick break, and then I want to get back keen and wondering what's happened. Nothing's happened. Well, if it isn't something that's already happened, then it's something that you think will happen. Have you quite finished? Oh, you're worried that if you go that Moody will close you down. Oh, rubbish man.

Yeah, you'll come back and you won't be a copper anymore, and if you're not a copper, then what would you be? Shouldn't I be lying on a couch for this sort of guff? Do you love Laura? Then go. Show her that you love her. Don't assume that she knows. People make that assumption and it's a mistake. Still, your decision. That was a scene with our guest, Lawrence Fox, when he was acting on a show called Inspector Lewis, aired from 2006 to 2015. Now he actually a leftist. Once you come out of your sort of just, I'm not saying anything acting shell and declare yourself something other than a leftist. It's the beginning of the end in your

country and mine. Yeah. I mean, I, I thought for two years, I thought, am I going to tell the truth? Am I going to say what I feel? And it actually weirdly began in America. It began with Kavanaugh and the hearings, the Kavanaugh hearings. And I was sat outside my trailer and these actresses and actors together would sit there and go, you've got to believe women,

you've got to believe women. And I'm like, well, no, actually, ultimately you have to believe in the due process of the law. That's the most important thing. And as we saw with Christine Bl blaisey ford and and what happened this was very sketchy info and we saw clarence thomas as well you know it's it's america is trying to destroy the two things that keep it upright which are the right to free speech the presumption of innocence and all of

these things. And, you know, your gun grabbers. I'm not a big fan of guns. But I now realise that, you know, as we head towards tyranny, having a gun in your locker is going to be a useful thing to have. It's astonishing to look back on that. I haven't seen that. That feels like a lifetime ago for me. And I mourn that career hugely because it was an opportunity for me to offer a different voice to the to the ones that you're constantly fed on, you know, in modern moral lectures on Netflix or whatever other channel, you know. So I feel I what I watched. I got another lump in my throat. Thanks a lot, babe. Oh, sorry. Sorry, Lawrence. You're amazing at it. You were in Gosford Park. I mean, so many hit movies and television shows.

I mean, you're an incredibly talented man. Her mother likes you. She does too. Now, I know she's not exactly a showstopper. Her father's not keen on the idea. You'll come round. And my daughter, Lady Rupert Spandish. You think so? I mean, it's for the money. And also, I heard you talk about this on Trigonometry, your acting background brings you to a more emotional place in general when communicating,

which of course nobody's going to remember, you know, in the context of your GB News remarks. A moment on GB and Dan, Dan came out and issued what was clearly to me a hostage statement written for him by a PR person at GB. Very, very offended by your remarks in retrospect. That's not Dan. There's zero chance that was written by Dan. He was trying to save his skin, I think, there. I don't think it's going to work. I expect that he's going to be fired probably today. You released a text message in response between the two of you laughing about it after the fact to prove Dan wasn't really offended and you didn't really appreciate the pile on. Can things be OK between the two of you, do you think? I want healing there because

I think you're on the same side. I speak to Dan every day. He also told me that this is what he was going to do. And I went, don't do it, Dan. Don't do the hostage tweet. It's a silly thing to do. And I said, you can also apologise without throwing me under the bus. More importantly and interestingly for him is that he's vulnerable. Right. He doesn't he's not he's not tough. I've learned to be tough. I've been taught to be tough by the circumstances I've experienced in life. Dan isn't tough. He's a he's a brave guy, but he's not a tough guy and um he has experienced the stuff that he's being forced to do uh to kind of apologize and capitulate to this uh of appeasement mob that that gb news has become is really sad for him but i speak to him every single day i go listen man this is gonna this is

gonna emancipate you we're gonna find a place and you know he's gonna do everything he can to save his skin but you know when he phoned me up and he said i've got to send this tweet and i've got to apologize and i'm going to throw you under the bus i said listen and without being homophobic dan you're a gay guy you don't have two children to feed i do so i have an extra level of stuff that i've got to deal with that you don't have to deal with and i am loyal to you i was loyal to you when the byline times came out after you. I was loyal to you and I'm loyal to my friends. And I try and be one of these people in life who walks the walk as well as talking the talk. And sometimes I talk the talk way too much, but at least I walk the walk. And I really, I have huge compassion for Dan. I love him. I think he's a courageous, courageous reporter.

I think to come out in the British media landscape and do what he's done is incredible. And I think that the treatment he's going to get possibly is is a mistake for him, because you don't if they're going to walk you to the guillotine and cut your head off, you should do so with your head held high. You shouldn't do so groveling and begging for your for them not to kill you and i think that's his one mistake but i speak to him every day and i and i love him i like you know i'm commanded to love people right so i i love him i have no beef with dan i have much more beef with the people above who are using him as a weapon and who are using, you know, and who want to take over the British media landscape. I'm very, very, very curious about people like Paul Marshall

and where they come from and stuff like that. You know, but Dan is a truly good guy. They've lost their mission. I mean, Roger Ailes, when you got in trouble at Fox, he had your back. He would stand up to anybody. He would never let the outside, especially not leftists come in and decapitate his staff. That just wasn't what he would do. He would throw himself in the line of fire and he would take the bullets for you. This

is one of the reasons why so many people feel such deep affection for him, including yours truly, you know, it's all documented in any event. Um, now what? Because I heard you say on the show and elsewhere, you're starting to wonder whether you can stay in Great Britain. You're starting to get a little scared about what your future looks like there. Can you expand on that? Well, I am scared of this country. I took a very strong stand during COVID lockdowns. I every friday night that i was having a party uh for everyone who wanted to come which may or may not be irresponsible but that's what i thought might as well be honest um i'd noticed a real ramping up in the rhetoric against me

you know in this situation now i'm facing a conspiracy charge you know and conspiracy is serious so uh i for me what i'm going to do is I'm going to go and walk up a mountain with the person who backs me and who wants my voice in the conversation. And we're going to discuss. You have a financial backer. Yeah. And I think that the conversation I'm going to have is, have we lost? And is this country now an airport hotel for migrants where the local people are impoverished, unable to support their own families, and migrants are put in hotels, in really lovely, beautiful hotels, while the local people are treated like SH1T.

And so I will walk up a mountain tomorrow with him because that's he lives near a mountain and we we walk this mountain frequently together and we will work out whether we've lost and we will come back down from the mountain working out whether we lost because i don't think what i think is so fascinating about the american response to this is like yeehaw fuck them you know it's like good for you say your stuff but in the UK we basically I've said this before and I will say it again we we are not a democratic secular liberal democracy we are a country attached to a socialist healthcare system which takes 17070 billion a year to fund.

And that is, without subsidy, 70% of the UK tax burden. So I pay my taxes and I can't get an appointment to see a National Health Service doctor. I watch people die on waiting lists. We have the record, we have 7.9 million people waiting on waiting lists in the belief that the socialist system will save them. It won't. So I, I'm, I'm wondering and worrying whether the UK has fallen totally. And I would like to explore the idea of what exists outside of it, you know, and, but, you know, I can't because of my bail conditions in it. Right. You would, you would, if you weren't going to be in prison, uh, you're not going to get be in prison. I would like to recommend the United States to you. We're not quite where you guys are. We do have the beautiful first amendment, which sadly many young people want to get rid of and

don't believe in, but the vast majority of Americans still do. Uh, though it's not what it used to be. You can still say what you want over here. The cancellation war is losing. They are losing. I live in Connecticut. You could come here. You could go to the great state of Texas. There are red states that even love the people with the British accent. We all think you're smarter than we are. And we at least I'd said this to my team this week, Lawrence, after we had Calvin on who got swept up into this whole thing for just defending you. He got fired, too, from what I want to do, isn't he? He's such a great man. He's been such an important voice on so many issues for them to can him is absolutely egregious. But I want to do here on the MK show, at least let's do UK day and we'll have you,

we'll have Calvin, we'll have Dan, maybe we'll get Mark Stein. He comes on on his own anyway. And we'll start doing something. I'll promote on his own anyway. And we'll start doing something. I'll promote whatever you want to do. I'll help you guys relaunch. But if they're not going to let you speak in Great Britain, come across the pond and fight the battle over here. We could use your help. You're absolutely right. And we're about to find that the internet now in the United Kingdom is going to be regulated by Ofcom, the very same people that regulate what goes on on TV. So what you're going to find when you gocom, the very same people that regulate what goes on on TV. So what you're going to find when you go to UK Twitter channels is this channel is blocked by Ofcom. And if you want to live in a world where Ofcomunists decide what you say,

you're living in a world which is heading very quickly towards Gulag Archipelago. And it may be a digital cancellation or it may be a physical one, but we're heading into very, very dangerous waters. Well, I encourage my UK friends to get one of those VPNs. You change the location so you make it look like you're logging on from the United States and then you will have access. I believe that's how it's done. But this is insane. People are losing their minds. And you know what? It's worth the fight. I encourage you to stay in it, there or here. We need you. All the best, my friend.

To be continued. Amen, Megan. Thank you so much for me. What a dreadful situation. Love to get your thoughts on it. Email me, megan at megankelly.com. Up next, Dr. Miriam Grossman. My gosh, I'm jarred by the whole conversation.

Now we're joined by psychiatrist, Dr. Miriam Grossman. We had Dr. Grossman on back in June on episode 568 to discuss her incredible book, Lost in Trans Nation. This is a must read, Lost in Trans Nation, a child psychiatrist's guide out of the madness. Never is a must read. Lost in Trans Nation, A Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of the Madness. Never was a book so needed as this one. Now it is available. She was coming on just as it was about to hit. And I'm excited to dive deeper into it with The Good Doctor and get to some of the latest news on this subject. Dr. Grossman, welcome back to the show. It's great to have you. It's great to be back with you, Megan. Thank you so much for having me back. Oh, there's not a more important book that's been written in the past decade as far as I'm concerned. This is the guide. This is what we needed for all the parents saying, I don't know

what to do. I don't know who to trust. I haven't even seen anybody outline the problem, honestly. You've done it. And one of the things that jumped out in me in the book that we didn't get to the last time was mourning the living. That's how you put it. Mourning the living, the trauma that parents experience when this happens with their child. I can say this, having had someone in my own family declare themselves a woman, it was a male to female. I've witnessed firsthand what you're talking about, the trauma to the person on the opposite end of that, whether it's a woman, you know, as a male to female. I've witnessed firsthand what you're talking about. The trauma to the person on the opposite end of that, whether it's a spouse or a parent, is deep and I think almost irreversible. But can you talk about it? Well, Megan, the parents are really the silent heroes, the untold, the unsung heroes of this saga. The parents I'm speaking now about are the ones that refuse to endorse their child's delusion. They refuse to use the new name, the new pronouns, and they will do anything they can to prevent their child from getting on the assembly line

toward medicalization. And there's more parents than you would imagine that fit into that group. Just last night, I was speaking to one of the parent leaders, and we went through all the different organizations that exist. These are grassroots, underground, private organizations created by parents with children who have rapid-onset gender dysphoria, which is the vast majority of young people right now that we're seeing. These are kids who, previous to hitting pre-adolescence or adolescence or young adulthood, never had any sign of being uncomfortable with their sex. So these parents have gotten together over the past few years. And because they've been abandoned by my profession, by rank and file therapists, the American Psychiatric Association, the Psychological Association, all these organizations, instead of supporting these

parents who are living in reality and are devoted and loving parents, instead of supporting them, they are demonizing them and basically describing them as unsupportive or worse. So the parent organizations, and there are at least 10 of them, I mean, I'm speaking now about the English-speaking ones, and they count among the parents that they are helping at least over 17,000 parents that are getting the support and guidance that they need, they desperately need, from other parents. And so I highlight this in my book, and I talk about, number one, as you said, the trauma that these parents go through when they're faced with a child who is indoctrinated and fully believes in the delusion, the impossibility that they are or could become the opposite sex, and that that quote-unquote transition will be the cure for their mental health ills. has come under the influence of outsiders who do not necessarily have their well-being

at the forefront of their minds. These are groomers and these are crusaders who want to promote this belief system in order to change our society and in order to eliminate the categories of male and female. So the parents come to this realization, some of them, and they begin to search for support in their position. Because if you, Megan, if you Google, if a parent goes online after their child has made this announcement and requests for a new name and pronouns and hormones, and the parent sits down and Googles parents support trans child, something like that. All the organizations that are going to come up there are going to be the affirming ones, the ones that tell the parents, put your child in the driver's seat. Your child knows better than anybody else who they truly are. And even though it may be difficult for you, this is for your child's welfare. The only path that they have toward a happy and adjusted life is if they

are affirmed by everyone around them. Now, more and more, especially over the past months or year, I would say, there are more and more parents who are wary of that message. Thank God. But those parents don't always know where to look. And because if you go online looking for these groups, it might be more difficult to find them. And you're certainly not going to find out about them from your pediatrician or your guidance counselor at school. That's not going to happen. Those people, nine times out of 10, are part of the problem here. So there's a lot of word of mouth sharing of information, and there's just a lot of sort of underground activity. And in order to join one of these groups, again, there's 17,000 parents, over 17,000 parents that are or have been involved in these support groups, parents supporting other parents. In order to join those

groups takes a lot of time and effort. You're not automatically admitted. You have to be vetted. And it is a strenuous process. Now, why is that? Because parents are terrified that they are going to be exposed as having these beliefs that go contrary to the narrative, having these so-called transphobic, bigoted beliefs. And they're terrified. They don't want their child to find out. They don't want perhaps other relatives to find out. And they don't want Child Protective Services to find out. So there's a tremendous amount of fear. Of course. And we've talked about this before, about how now all the studies show that if you just leave your child alone and you don't affirm and you don't switch pronouns and you don't switch names and you don't allow social transition, never mind all that follows, your child will grow out of his or her gender confusion. So the odds are in your favor if you don't intervene, you know, to not affirm. The odds are in your favor that your child will resort, revert back to understanding he's a he and she's a she. But instead, these activists, including in the psychiatric profession, push the opposite. They push social transition. And you write in the book about how this leaves parents with trauma of their own,

you know, that when they, the psychiatrist telling them, would you have a, rather have a live daughter or a dead son or whatever their transition is. And that then it's almost like a death in the family for these parents when they could just go the route of not affirming and let the child grow out of it. They're pressured into affirming and they suffer almost a death in the family with these, quote, secondary losses. Can you explain that? Sure. Well, you know, we're talking about loss, but this is a very complicated loss. It's not, there are simple losses and simple grief, and then there's complicated grief. So a simple grief, as terrible as it might be, would be a grief in which a person suffers a terrible loss. But it's not complicated by guilt or anger or regret. What could I have done? What did I do wrong? Why did this person go and do this to me? Simple grief, most people

get over. They're sad, they grieve, they miss the person, but they're able to move on after a certain amount of time. This is an altogether different thing. You see, this is obviously not an actual death. I mean, you still have a live child. It's just sometimes an altogether different child, not the child that you knew for 12 or 15 or 20 years. It's a child that has changed physically, obviously, if there's been medicalization. It's a child whose personality has changed. And it's a child that's been indoctrinated to believe that if you don't support them on this dangerous path, a path, by the way, that way that involves being a lifelong consumer of pharmaceuticals. So addicted or dependent, I should say, on pharmaceuticals for the rest of your life. If you do not support that, and you do not support the various medical interventions and surgeries that have so many horrific adverse effects,

that you are a bad parent. Your home is unsafe. You are bigoted. You are closed-minded. You're simply toxic. And so the kids have been indoctrinated not only with all the stuff, you know, the delusion about their new identity being a solution to their mental health issues, they're indoctrinated to think that anyone that doesn't go along with it is a terrible, toxic person. So the very parents who are the most devoted to their children and refuse to go along, refuse to deny reality and refuse to sign on the dotted line permitting these medical interventions, they are being framed as the enemy, enemy number one. So this is. Sorry, I was going to say that you write in the book.

You have to look at what these parents go through saying, for example, the past has been erased. Your child rewrote it to fit his beliefs. I never liked those swim trunks. I was miserable on that vacation and that birthday beliefs. I never liked those swim trunks. I was miserable on that vacation. In that birthday video, I was only acting like I was happy. Cherished memories are stained by the narrative. He might insist you remove and delete all the old photos of him. He knows his life history better than you do.

I cannot imagine the pain of this. And then to know on top of it that in case after case, it was the school guidance counselor or a teacher or even a pediatrician, never mind a psychiatrist or a psychologist you brought him to for help, who pushed him, who pushed him down this lane, separating him from you in every way a child can be separated from his mother. That's correct. And so the parents are on this impossible tightrope. They're walking a tightrope because they're unwilling to deny the reality. They're unwilling to approve of this plan to live as the other sex, but they're terrified that they may lose the child emotionally, that this wedge that's placed between the child and his or her loving family is so insidious and so huge. And I tell stories in the book of families in which the wedge, you know,

ended up in, in terrible tragedies of not only about one, we have to talk about, yeah, Ellie. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well, yeah. Ellie was a teenage girl with mental health issues living in Southern California. LGBT rainbow moms who see themselves as saviors of children that come from families that may not be so positive about the transgender ideology. And they see themselves as stepping up and saving these kids from their own parents. And they will often influence the kids. They will open their homes to them. They will put them in touch with organizations that will further alienate them from their parents. And that is what happened to Yaeli. She got involved with these groups and with these parents and with people at school. And her mother, Abigail, and Abigail has spoken many times publicly about this. Abigail Martinez is her name.

People should go online and hear her speaking at Heritage Foundation, if you can stomach it. If you can stomach it. When you're done telling the story, I'll play some of it. Okay. So the long and short of it was that Yaeli, over the years, was alienated from her parents. And her mother even, at a certain point, her mother was willing to go along with it.

She was willing to do anything. She used the new names and the new pronouns. But it was too late. Yaeli had moved out. She went from one place to do anything. She used the new names and the new pronouns, but it was too late. Ellie had moved out. She went from one place to the other. She was emancipated because she was led to believe that if she's, well, this is true in California, if you're emancipated, an emancipated minor, you can make your own medical decisions. She was placed on testosterone. She was taken by a radical LGBT group to a hospital in Los Angeles where she was placed on testosterone. She was on testosterone a number of years. None of this was helping her underlying mental health issues. Her mother kept trying,

kept fighting, going to court every month, trying to fight for her. She committed suicide. Yeah, Ellie committed suicide. Now, this is not an isolated story. This is the only story I know of so far in which the child has ended up suiciding. I hope that it's the only one. But there are multiple stories of, A, minors being removed from the family by Child Protective Services or simply becoming so estranged because of that wedge that's placed between them. And because the child is so convinced that their homes are unsafe, that they simply leave. And they are either completely estranged or partially estranged. And the numbers for that are quite large. There are quite a lot of families now that are going through that. The estrangement of their child because the child has been indoctrinated with this idea that parents who live in reality and will not accept the delusion and parents who will

not agree to these dangerous interventions are horrible, awful, transphobic people that you just need to cut out of your life. Right. Here is Abigail Martinez, yeah, Ellie's mother, talking about her daughter. My daughter was murdered by a gender ideology. CPS took my daughter when she was 16 years old. It was helped by her public school counselor, an LGBTQ group rise, and another trans-identified girl. My daughter was taken from her loving home because the state of California claimed I was abusive for not affirming her trans identity.

I lost my daughter over a name and a pronoun. My daughter was not a boy trapped in a girl's body. She had mental health issues. And it's true of so many of them. They just don't care what the other issues are in the way that we, you know, if you go in there and you are a perfectly healthy looking girl and you say, I think I'm a boy, they'll say you're a boy. If you go in there, you're a perfectly healthy looking girl and you say, I'm fat,

I'm fat and I need to lose 100 of my 120 pounds. They will say, let's talk about your other issues. They will not accept, they will not affirm. But in this one lane, there's only one accepted course of treatment and it's just to affirm the delusion. And Megan, my professional organizations and my board of medicine is telling me that I must do the same and is telling me that when I tell a patient of mine that she's a girl and she will always be a girl, she may feel like a boy. And I want to try and understand that with her, but she is a girl and she will always be a girl, then that is something that I could be investigated for. Believe it or not, that is the world that we're living in. How are you getting away with being so outspoken on this issue? Have you had any pushback?

Well, sure. There's pushback. You know, I'm on my own. I'm not part of a clinic or a hospital. I have my own private practice. And I'm taking a risk by doing this. But it's a risk I'm willing to take. But many people are not. I get emails from many, many professionals, psychiatrists, social workers, psychologists that are too fearful to do this. And I get it. I don't like it. I think that they should do it even if they are fearful. But that's the way things are right now. There are quite a few others speaking up. and every day there's going to be more people speaking up. There's no medical basis to any of this. And I'm speaking, again, I'm speaking about the teenagers. There's different groups who have gender dysphoria,

but I'm speaking now about the thousands and thousands of kids. The percent increase in the past 10 years is about 5,000% increase in the number of kids, mostly girls, who are presenting and insisting that they are or they want to be the opposite sex. Just getting back to Abigailigail and the parents so abigail is one of the heroines uh you know of this saga she is standing up she's telling her story she's testifying in in uh court uh and and as you know california uh passed a resolution uh that stated a few months ago, since we last spoke, Megan, they passed a resolution in their state legislature, which says that calls upon courts, family courts, that when the judge is making decisions about custody or visitation, uh, and is deciding between parents, uh, that, that the judge should consider, should consider the parent who is not going with the narrative,

who is not affirming the new identity, the delusion, that that is potential harm to the child. And that the parent who is going with the delusion and is promoting the placement of this child on the assembly line toward medicalization, that is in the best interest, they're saying, of the child. Now, right now, this is only in California, but this is going to go to many, many other states. And interesting, isn't it, that the parent who typically is against the affirmation and the medicalization are the dads. So, you know, we have many instances now of one parent is going to be even more alienated from the child. Another family is going to be even more broken up. And another child will be placed because of the courts, because of this legislation in California, more children. But Gavin Newsom refused to sign that one. No, that was a different one. Oh.

I think it was this bill. I mean, there's been there's been a few. There's one that says you're emancipated when you when you leave the house and you go into a homeless shelter and then your parents have no right to know what you're doing or weigh in on it. But then this one where they said the parent could lose custody because he's not affirming. They passed it in the state house and in the state Senate. And Gavin Newsom just refused to sign it in September. OK, I'm going to have to check politics. I think the one that was like a week ago with the came out of Gavin Newsom's office was he would not sign the one having to do with schools having to report gender transition. I'm pretty sure he refused to sign. We've covered

this extensively. Yeah, he refused to sign it. OK, but he's been in favor of virtually every one of these laws that makes it harder for parents to to keep an eye on, to know about, to do anything other than affirm the child's identity. And this is where the law is clearly going in these more blue states that are pushing this on us. They're fighting the bans. But now we've had some victories, right? There was the Sixth Circuit opinion coming out of Tennessee and another state saying the bans on cross-gender hormones and treatments pronouns. That is not an OK thing to try to force on children to ambiguous these laws and so on, which that's great. It's a free speech victory. Had a Supreme Court decision at the end of last term affirming the right to free speech on these kinds of issues. So we're making some headway, but not in your community. Your community's got his head in the sand. The psychiatric community, right,

saying none of it's happening. Affirm, affirm, affirm. Anybody who doesn't is a bigot. Okay. There are some positive signs within the mental health community. I'm not yet jumping up and down in, you know, victory, but there are some positive signs. The American Academy of Pediatrics, which for years has just been, you know, just completely taken over by the crusaders in that organization. They did, after a few years of refusing to consider a resolution that was put forth by two dozen members to re-look at their policy on this issue, they have now said that they're going to take another look, whether it's just, you know, words or real. I don't know. I don't trust them. Well, look, I'm trying to be hopeful. I don't trust them either. I don't trust them either. But I think that more and more people, at least on the conservative side of things, I'm not saying that, you know, CNN and NBC, you know, are covering all. They're certainly not inviting me on there.

But there is more exposure to, to our side and the parents, there's more and more documentaries. Um, they're speaking up, they're testifying. Some of them, most of them, we want to remain anonymous for their own reasons. The D transitioners are coming out of the woodwork. They are getting organized. They are speaking up. They are getting organized. They are speaking up. They are testifying.

They have their- They're suing. They are suing. Yes, they are. The lawyers, finally. I've been waiting years. Where are the lawyers? I was always asking.

Yeah. The lawyers are- Do what you do best. Sue, this is what you love to do. Do it. Do it for these people who have been obviously harmed as minors. And it's not something that you can consent to a lifetime of infertility,

of being unable to achieve climax, of having your breasts chopped off, of having your penis chopped off. I mean, it's insane to pretend that a child can ever give informed consent to any of that. I want to ask you one question on this. I mentioned this in passing on my show a couple of weeks ago, and it like took off with parents discussing this on Instagram and elsewhere. Our pediatrician, we're new to this pediatrician group because we just moved to Connecticut two years ago. And our kids are getting a little bit older now. Now we have a 14-year-old, a 12-year-old, and a 10-year-old. But the pediatrician said, you know, but they, and our kids are getting a little bit older now. Now we have a 14 year old, a 12 year old and a 10 year old, but the pediatrician said, you know, next year, I guess that'll be this year for our, our eldest and soon for our daughter.

We're going to ask mom to leave the exam room at your annual physical. And I'm just going to have a private conversation with you child. And I think that this is about sex, Ed, like, are you having sex? You don't want mom to know here's what protection, you know, all that. But all these parents started chiming in saying, my kid told me they raised the gender issue. You know, are you sure you're a boy? Do you, you know, what, do you have any doubts about being a boy? What should, what do you think about this? Do you think it's OK to leave your 14 year old with a pediatrician alone without you there to say and ask about anything? so well, you know, for years, and you know where she or he stands on these various issues of sexuality and gender? Absolutely not. Of course, that's what they're at. They're asking, do you have sex with girls, boys, both or neither? And they're asking, do you identify as a girl, a boy,

both, neither, or something else? Of course, that's what they're asking. That's what they're advised by their American Academy of Pediatrics to ask. And the assumption is made, Megan, that parents are just not to be trusted, and they are often on the wrong side of things, and they have the harmful, backward, homophobic, transphobic ideas, and that kids need somebody outside the family that they can be honest with and get the information that they need. So this is absolutely undermining parents, 100%. I would suggest people go to the website, the organization called the American College of Pediatricians, which is a group of pediatricians and other professionals that broke off from the American Academy of Pediatricians

when they realized how far to the left that group was going. American College of Pediatricians, just actually about a week ago, they have a new website on the whole gender issue. Fantastic website. It's called gender integrity, something like that. Gender, not sure what it's called, but American College of Pediatricians. Wow. That's so good to know. I'm so glad this exists. Yeah. You can get a referral to a pediatrician, uh, on, you know, from those people and you can be sure that they are not going to insist on taking your child aside privately and influencing them in one way or the other. Uh, and there are pediatricians that might see your child virtually as well. Right. When you, you can be there, I should ask you, I meant to on the 17,000

parents who are the underground. I can't hear you. Um, Oh, you can't hear me. Oh, hello. Hello. Oh, hear me now. Yeah. Now I can hear me now. Okay. Um, on the 17,000 parents who are banding together and they're strict about letting people into the group. Yeah. Everyone's going to want to know how they get in. Anybody who's dealing with this right now is asking what website do I go to? How do I find the groups? Okay. There are so many groups. I don't want to give you like 10 groups, right? I'm going to give you just my website, miriamgrossmanmd.com. And then I have a tab with resources. And on those resources, you're going to find those groups that you connect to. Okay, good. Thank goodness. People need it. My God, they need it. And in case you think you

don't need it, this story was in the news. Is it just today? I'm trying to think when this hit, but it was, hold on, let me find it. It's talking about the messaging that's going out to schools. Oh yes, Los Angeles Unified School District. I believe that's the largest public school district, possibly even in America, definitely in California. And City Journal reported a week ago, not even, that this school district is announcing it's going to be celebrating national coming out day in elementary classrooms during the week of October 9th through 13th. That's coming up. That's next week, October 9th, national coming out day. What is this? Speaking of glitter moms, it's to celebrate LGBTQ plus history month, which they say is October.

And they want to reinforce with the elementary school children what for them to be thinking about their race, ethnicity, gender identity, religion or more of those boxes. The document also promotes two famous transgender people that they want the schools to discuss with elementary school children each day of the week. These famous people include Jazz Jennings and Elliot Page. Elliot was, of course, formerly known as Ellen Page and starred in the movie Juno. Jazz Jennings has this is somebody who was this is a boy who's trying to transition to girl and has documented the whole thing on a reality TV show. And this boy has had several botched surgeries, has been through hell. But they want, that's not going to be disclosed. They want to celebrate Jazz living up to his true, I guess they'd say her true gender identity. And they're foisting this on elementary school children in the largest school district in the nation. Okay. Well, Megan, none of us should be surprised. This is a crusade and they will stop at nothing.

This is a crusade. And I, I know that people don't expect me to say this as a doctor. This is evil. It's just plain evil. It's not nuanced. For me, it's a black and white issue. It is simply evil to indoctrinate kids with these falsehoods, with these lies. Jazz Jennings, as much as Jazz appears female, because he was put on blockers and hormones at a very early Now, we are indoctrinating kids with these lies, and we are encouraging them down a dangerous path. We are luring them with the promise that if they go down this path, they will be happy and popular and fit in, and they will be their authentic selves, and they will have wonderful lives. Now, just to get back to jazz for a second. Jazz, it's well known, because jazz mentions this quite often, the long list of mental

health issues that Jazz suffers from. Anxiety, depression, panic attacks, not feeling secure about who he is. There was one scene that was so telling between Jazz and his mother in which he was just weeping and saying to her, you know, I just want to be who I am. I just want to be who I am. In other words, I don't know who I am. Poor Jazz. It's just such a tragic story. And to put this person up in front of preschoolers, which they do because Jazz wrote that book, I Am Jazz, in which he says, I was born with a girl's brain and a boy's body, as if that is possible. That is not possible. We are not Legos. We are not Mr. Potato Heads that can be improperly assembled. So it is evil. We are luring these kids down a dangerous path. Each one of them,

by the way, not to get into the money because I'm not the money expert here. If you want to talk about money, Jennifer Beleck is the person. She's coming on. She was booked. We had to switch it for, I can't remember, breaking news, but she's definitely coming on. She's done yeoman's work on this. I'm so happy. I mean, I don't know who that guy was that Tucker Carlson had. Complete unknown, as far as I know, no qualifications, basically just regurgitate, you know, all of Jennifer's work. I'm not going to, it's just wrong. So I'm glad that you're having her on there. So we are enticing these little kids with rainbows and

glitter and unicorns, and it is simply evil. And by the way, they're very open about wanting to have access to our children at the youngest age. Not only do we see this in the Los Angeles public school system, there's this group called High Tops, which whatever's left of Project Veritas decided to investigate. And they got this so-called youth youth focused LGBTQ nonprofit on camera, their executives talking about how critical it is to get to them when they're young. Got to get in there while they're young. Here's a little bit of the clip. Most critical time to be there is grades five through eight because you want to catch kids when they're starting puberty because that's the time in which identity formation is central to their lives however early intervention is key so we actually

are designing a kindergarten through grade two curriculum this my god summer and i will tell you one of the most rewarding experiences nikki we were in a local school system in an elementary school and we were in grades three, four, and five. And after we were there, five students went to the principal's office and came out. So we are really intentionally going into younger and younger grades. Oh, what do you make of that? Get your kids out of these schools, parents. Just get them out. Do whatever you have to do. Homeschool, you know, move, move away. This is a New Jersey group, but this was happening at our schools in New York City, private schools where they were pushing the agenda. You have to be so vigilant as a parent and figure out what groups coming in. What's the messaging going to be?

Sex ed is not what it used to be. Kindergarten, for God's sake, you're not thinking about this in kindergarten. Well, no, you've got to you've got to be thinking about it before kindergarten. And in fact, I give parents in my book so many tools, Megan, in which they, you know, they have to reach the child first. The other side, the proponents of this, yeah, the proponents of this are going after your child. You need to reach your child first. If you don't, I, I prompt, trust me, they're just waiting to reach your child as you just, you know, demonstrating. So, so the parents have to reach your child as you just demonstrating. So the parents have to reach their child early with the message that, yes, we are all either boys or girls, and we are either a boy or a girl

from the first moment that we ever existed. It's not a random hit or miss designation that's made in the delivery room by some doctor or nurse as if they could just make a random mistake. No, this is in every single one of your cells from the moment of conception. And we want our children to understand that it's permanent and it is wonderful and that there are all different kinds of boys and different kinds of girls. And if you don't fit in with the stereotypical behaviors and interests, that's fine. Everyone is a mosaic and we have to celebrate that mosaic of male and female without harming the body. That is the message you have to reach your child with early on.

You've got to. Even though it's awkward, you may think your kid's too young. They're coming for them. So you got to get there first and play defense. Stand by. Dr. Grossman stays with us. Isn't she a gem? What a treasure you are. So glad to have you here today. Parental rights are being used to thwart any rights of autonomy that the kid might have. And I'm sorry, but kids do have autonomy. We've already established this. For example, if a kid needs a blood transfusion and the parents don't want to, it's not the parents' right to refuse that blood transfusion for that kid because it is life-saving. In the same respect, if a kid only needs to, like,

use a different name and pronoun in school, there might be a reason, and a good reason, they're not coming out at home. And they need a safe place to be themselves. And so to hell with this idea of parental rights when it comes to kids who have their own consent and then their own bodily autonomy and their own autonomy to their personhood that need to be protected. Okay. It's a trans activist, uh, on camera, courtesy of libs

of Tik TOK came to our attention who obviously has nothing like Miriam Grossman's pedigree. She's a psychiatrist and you've got these armchair wannabe psychiatrists trying to do what you do, uh, with a bunch of nonsense. Uh, she authored, as Dr. Grossman has, the new book Lost in Trans Nation, a child psychiatrist's guide out of the madness. And I would like to correct my use of the term she that appeared to be a he pretending to be a she. So what about child autonomy and comparing this to a blood transfusion? No, no, this is all about the state taking over, you know, the parents' role. It's about, you know, takes a village to raise a child.

No, it takes a nuclear, strong nuclear family to raise a child. And, you know And the argument there about the blood transfusion, what she or he is referring to is probably those extremely rare cases and might, for religious reasons, oppose blood transfusions. And so it might be taken in front of a judge on an emergency basis. I actually saw something like that when I was working in pediatrics many years ago. But this is nothing, no. It's ridiculous, okay? It's just BS. These families that we're talking about here, in almost every case, these are not abusive families. These are loving and devoted parents that live in reality and understand that their has been sucked into this system, this cult that has convinced them of this delusion. It's a

delusion for a child, or anyone for that matter, to think that they are or can change their sex. There are people that can try and do that, but what they achieve is just a synthetic persona. They do not become an actual man or woman. But Megan, I know that we only have like a minute left and I want to finish by just calling out to parents. The parents that are going through something like this right now in their families, I want to tell them that they're not alone. Parents who are choosing the only rational and healthy path, which is to resist the delusion and resist all the organizations and the groups that are promoting the delusion, you are not alone. And there's so much help that's available to you. And I wrote this book, Lost in Transnation. I put my heart and my soul into it

because I saw there was such a tremendous need for parents to have tools and information to help navigate this ordeal. And parents who have not yet, parents who don't enter, who are not in this ordeal right now, they need to plan to, they need to inoculate their families against it. And my book also provides that inoculation. So I, there's nothing else like it. I mean, I've been following the literature on this and I've been reading it all. There's nothing else like this. This is the book we needed parents. It's lost in translation. I have no financial stake in this. I I'm just a huge fan of Dr. Grossman lost in translation, read it, prepare. I mean, you have to take responsibility now. Remember when we had on the parenting expert and he was saying, once they're over the bridge on this,

it's very hard to do anything. Now's the time. And by the way, the website that Dr. Grossman was talking about earlier from the College of American Pediatricians is biologicalintegrity.org. Miriam, thank you so much for being here. God bless you for all the work you do. Thank you, Megan. God bless you for all the work you do. Thank you, Megan. God bless you too. Oh, what a gem. Before we go, next week, I want to tell you, we'll be joined by Senator Ted Cruz,

Senator Rand Paul, Dr. Drew, and the guys from Ruthless. What a week. Have a great weekend. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.