The Megyn Kelly Show - False George Floyd Narratives Exposed in New Film, and How It Changed Policing, with Liz Collin, JC Chaix, and Heather Mac Donald | Ep. 670

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

Megyn Kelly is joined by Liz Collin and JC Chaix, producer and director of “The Fall of Minneapolis,” to discuss their new George Floyd documentary and how it will completely change how you think about the case, the mainstream media’s false narratives and lies they've pushed about the George Floyd case, the truth about Floyd's erratic behavior the day he died, what new police bodycam footage shows about Floyd that changes the narrative completely, the deterioration of Minneapolis after Floyd's death, the mob being allowed to destroy the police precinct in Minneapolis and the rest of the city, the “void of leadership” from Mayor Jacob Frey and more, why Derek Chauvin never got a fair trial, how the media and the left spun a false George Floyd narrative for years, the failures of the EMTs that haven't gotten attention, the key factor of the Fentanyl in Floyd's system, Derek Chauvin's state of mind now, and more. Then Heather Mac Donald, fellow at the Manhattan Institute, joins to discuss how America was forever changed after the Floyd case, the dangers police officers are facing across the country, how the false Floyd narrative changed policing and increased crime, her recent fiery showdown with Berkeley college students on race and privilege, and more.Collins and Chaix's film: https://www.thefallofminneapolis.com/Mac Donald: https://manhattan.institute/person/heather-mac-donald Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow 

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Oh my gosh, what a program we have for you today. This is a show I've long wanted to do. It is a show focused on a story that took center stage in America in the spring of 2020 and really never left. The arrest and death of George Floyd, the tragic situation that led to immediate media spin and narratives that emerged, and the ramifications today in all of our lives. Today, we have two people who have spent years researching, interviewing key players, and uncovering major details about the Floyd story that you have not seen before. And for a reason,

they've been hidden from you by people in positions of authority who knew the truth, but didn't want you to. Our guests today have uncovered failures of political leaders, shifting narratives, and they've highlighted the brutal treatment of the Minnesota, Minneapolis police force, of the police force, not by the cops, but was done to them during this troubling time in America and the fallout at the trial of Derek Chauvin, they share their reporting in an extraordinary new documentary called The Fall of Minneapolis. Here's a bit. Watch. It started out as a lot of people gathering, which is First Amendment right.

But it quickly changed each day it just compounded the first day it was like a thousand people the next day it was four thousand people and then the day after that ten thousand people the heart's racing right now i'm talking about this they throw rocks and bricks and firebombs. I'm like, what is going on? Where do I live right now? What'd you think of this plan to surrender the precinct? No way. No way. They're not going to do that. You can't just give up a precinct. Sent a strong message that they're in control. They're still in control of this day. And just a bit later, we're going to be joined by the one and only Heather McDonald. God, she's brilliant about how the George Floyd case has changed policing in America. But joining us

first, Liz Collin, journalist at Alpha News and author of They're Lying, The Media, The Left, and The Death of George Floyd. And JC Shea, former police officer and editor of Liz's bestselling book. Together, they are the producer and director of the new documentary, The Fall of Minneapolis, which is available to stream as of tomorrow. Liz, JC, welcome to the show. I'm so glad you're here. I have to tell you, it's been a busy time. And normally I would have watched the documentary prior to today, the day you were coming on. I read the packet that my team did, but I only watched it this morning. And I have to say, like, I'm still upset over what I saw. It was extremely jarring and not in the way the leftist activists

want us to see this whole situation. What was done to these cops, in particular, the four at the center of the George Floyd case, but all of the Minneapolis cops is deeply wrong. Everyone turned on them. Everyone. The justice system at every turn failed these guys who had served the justice system and the people of Minneapolis for decades in some cases, at least in the case of Derek Chauvin. And now these four cops are sitting in jail, smeared, reputations ruined, and no one has any interest in the truth. I mean, Derek Chauvin right now is seeking an appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court, which we all know is not likely to be heard. They take almost no cases,

but he's got a slim shot, but the odds are against him. The Minneapolis Supreme Court's already rejected his appeal. They've made them try this case in the middle of a powder keg, where they would have zero chance at a fair trial. The judge, the chief of police, the mayor, Al Sharpton, the reverend who spoke at George Floyd's funeral. My God, you guys lay it all bare in this extraordinary film. I was not expecting to have this kind of a reaction to it. I've heard the story. I've heard some of this stuff. I had not heard anywhere near the amount of information you two have uncovered. And so let's start there because there's a reason you were able to get all this stuff that most people, that nobody, nobody who's

taken this kind of a look at the case. And there have been others who have tried, has gotten. You're intimately connected with the, the police force and the police in Minneapolis. And Liz, you're a news reporter. I mean, you're in the business of uncovering stories. And you're also married to lifelong cops. So let me start with you, Liz, and just explain to us how you came at this, because I imagine you were going through the whole George Floyd backlash in a way the rest of us were not. Well, first of all, I just want to say, Megan, thank you so much for having us on and having the

courage to bring this forward. I'm thrilled you were able to watch the film. We're still kind of getting the emotion and such from people that have seen it for the first time, even though it will be released tomorrow, just from some folks who were able to see it at our premiere last night. And that's what we want people to feel in all of this, simply that this didn't have to happen and to put this all together in a way that makes sense for people and putting the truth out there. But yeah, you're right. My husband was a long time Minneapolis police lieutenant. He was the president of the police union in Minneapolis

during all of this. I was a long time anchor and reporter at the CBS station, in fact, in Minneapolis, where it was kind of my lifelong dream to work growing up. It was the station I grew up watching and I sort of watched my personal world fall apart, professionally, I should say, through all of this. The cancel culture came after me in full force and after my husband as well, because of course the police union had to be to blame for all of this. The cancel culture came after me in full force and after my husband as well,

because of course the police union had to be to blame for all of this. But more than anything, I was so troubled as a journalist through all of this, how they were privy to the information, the truth in all of this, and they refused to report it. Instead, it was this dangerous narrative

they decided to push from day one. And you're right, we're still paying the consequences to this day. It's not just Derek Chauvin and the three other officers who wound up being taken down as a result of this narrative. We're all living this. I mean, this case directly led to the increase in crime in major American cities coast to coast. The loss of lives, not just of police, but of the black community in disproportionate numbers as police pulled back, quit, retired early. Not to mention the explosion of the pre-existing, but, one point still percolating, now it's exploded, DEI programs in every part of our lives, whether it's K-12 education or corporate America or sports fields. I mean, it's everywhere. And it's built on a lie. It's built on a lie, many lies.

You've got to watch this thing. When, I, when people come on the show, you guys, I support their, you know, they don't get on the show. If I don't support what they've done, if I don't, if I can't promote the book, I don't believe in it, or I don't like the movie. I just won't have them on. I wouldn't have you on and then disparage your product. But some really affect me more than others. I'm, I'm really begging the audience to watch this. And before we go any further, I should make clear. Um, so it's alpha news, Liz. It's, is it on rumble as of tomorrow where, where specifically and how specifically. Yeah, it's alpha news. MN that's our, that's our channel. We want people to follow our rumble channel. And also, uh, the website is the fall

of Minneapolis. Uh, so the fall of minneapolis.com it'll, it'll get you there as well. But Alpha News is where I am now. I left mainstream media through all of this, just so tired of pushing this propaganda and this divisive messaging and not calling out the people who needed to be called out from, you know, from the very beginning. And I went over to Alpha News. We're an independent news organization in Minnesota. And they allowed me to put this documentary together with Dr. Shea and it does take courage nowadays, sadly, to report the truth. That's the world we live in. But yes, thank you so much for pointing people in the right direction.

I do hope as many people will watch as possible. They're going to watch this. Trust me, you need to watch this. I will tell you, Liz, I had similar experience in that I was sitting on my couch when the George Floyd thing happened and I wasn't sure what I was going to do. It was post NBC. It just wasn't, I didn't want to go back to the mainstream media. That had been a terrible experience. And I wasn't sure whether I would get off the couch at all. Frankly, I was, you know, this business is disgusting and toxic in many ways. And I just thought maybe I'll

just sit here with my family and, you know, do something else. And it was this case and the reaction to it and what was happening to cops. And I have one as a brother that made me get off the couch. I mean, I could just see that the lies being told and Heather McDonald is coming up after you two was one of the very few brave souls to write the truth. Even then, even at the fever pitch point of George Floyd in the aftermath, she wrote the truth. And I thought, I have to get out there. I've got to set the record straight. This is deeply wrong what's happening. But boy, I had no idea. And now I do. JC, so how do you know Liz? how, because you're, it seems to me you were a filmmaker before this. So how did you get, how did you get involved in this? Sure. We, we have a mutual

friend or let's just say a powerful force in the universe out there. Um, and he runs lawofficer.com. I helped him, uh, write a book and he's a friend of Bob Kroll, uh, Liz's husband and said, Hey, before you even think about writing anything, you should talk to my guy. You should talk to me. And we immediately hit it off. We realized there's a lot of truth that needs to be told here. And I'm just glad to be a part of the team. And with Alpha News going after the truth relentlessly, it's been, as most people say, a blessing, but it's been something like that near divine to be a part of a team that goes after the truth and puts all the other nonsense aside, as you know, in the media industry.

And I will say that with Jay's background also as a police officer, he was able to see this through that lens as well and see how this cancel culture came after the profession from day one. And you said it based on lies and the lies began almost immediately here. So let's go back. All right. And we're going to go through the story and we'll hit, sort of, if you look at his Roman numeral outline form, we'll hit some of the big Roman numerals, but you got to watch the documentary to see the inserts and the details and the footage and the interviews that there are interviews with Derek Chauvin. I mean, I've never seen that before either. You you're going

to see all of that. And then many of the cops, Derek Chauvin's mom went on the record with Liz and JC and it's very telling. Um, but the way you tell you tell the like the facts that you fill in along the way are really what got me. I mean, really what upset me. Let's start with the arrest. So set the set the scene for us, Liz. It's it's May of 2020. George Floyd goes to a store that day. And what happens. Yeah, May 25th, Memorial Day of 2020. And George Floyd goes into this store at 38th and Chicago in Minneapolis and pays for some things with a counterfeit bill and simply goes back to his car. He's acting very erratic, I should say, in the store. The security camera captures that quite clearly. There's a 911 call placed about this bill that is counterfeit.

And also during that call, there's talk of this erratic behavior, that something is off with this guy, but George Floyd goes back into the vehicle across the street from Cup Foods, and the police respond. And those officers are Alex King and Thomas Lane. Alex King had been on the job for three days at that point, his third shift as a Minneapolis police officer,

and Thomas Lane his fourth day as a Minneapolis police officer, just coming off of their field training at that time. And immediately, Tom Lane goes up to George Floyd's window. He is not complying. And that's what we wanted to do in the film is see this body camera footage. You know, remember, we were only allowed to see this viral Facebook video and there's a reason for that. There is a long interaction that takes place

with Thomas Lane, Alex King and George Floyd long before Derek Chauvin even arrives on scene with his partner that day, Tu Tao. And that's what people should question why this information has been kept from them for so long nearly two and a half months before the body camera footage came out Megan in this case and that was only because it was leaked by an international news agency they tried to keep it from the public we have a little bit of that that the the original encounter where Officer Lane goes over to George Floyd's car, which has two other people in it as well.

And Floyd will not get out of the car in SOT 2. You see your hands. Stay in the car. Let me see your other hand. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Let me see your other hand. Both hands. Put your fucking hands up right now. Let me see your other hand. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Let me see your other hand. Please, please, Mr. Officer. Both hands. I didn't do nothing. Put your fucking hands up right now.

Let me see your other hand. All right. What did I do, though? What did we do? Put your hand up there. Put your fucking hand up there. Jesus Christ. Keep your fucking hands on the wheel. I got shot.

Keep your fucking hands on the wheel. Yes, sir. I'm sorry, Mr. Officer. Man, I got shot the same way, Mr. Officer, before. Okay, well, when I say let me see your hands, you put your fucking hands on the wheel. Yes, sir. I'm sorry, Mr. Officer. Man, I got shot the same way Mr. Officer, before. Okay, well, when I say let me see your hands, you put your fucking hands up. Man, I'm so sorry, Mr. Officer. You got him? Yeah.

Step out of the vehicle and step away from me, all right? Yes, sir. Step out and face away. Step out and face away. Okay, Mr. Officer, please don't shoot me. Please, man. I'm not going to shoot you. Step out and face away.

I'm going to get you out of here, man. Please don't shoot me, man. I'm not shooting you, out and face away i'm looking at you man please don't shoot me man i just lost my mom man step out and face away step out and face away please don't shoot me mr officer please don't shoot me man step on the face away. Okay, okay, okay. Please, please, please, man. Please. I didn't know, man. Get out of the car. I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't know.

Okay, so explain and keep in mind, again, as Liz points out, that was not shared with us until months after this whole incident, the body cam footage that the officers obtained. What does that show us? Yeah, I think what that shows more than anything is we have someone who's had experiences and is experienced in being arrested. Among cops, you'd say, okay, we have someone who's running game. In other words, they're telling the lies, they're telling certain things to elicit a certain response from officers and try to throw them off. And you can also see in that a little contrast in the reflection. But if you have

cop eyes where you're trained to look inside a car what someone's doing, you notice Mr. Floyd is reaching like that over. That's a very common reaching for the center console, trying to hide things in between a seat move. And none of this was even shown and, you know, hidden from the public by the FBI and others under the guise of we are still conducting research and conducting, you know, conducting our investigation. But really what we have is there are plenty of reasons and red flags to have stopped this whole narrative of George Floyd wasn't resisting. Even here is backseat passenger Shawanda Hill yell out, stop resisting Floyd. And that's a much different narrative, a much different narrative than was portrayed by just a 10-minute, well-after-the-fact viral video on Facebook.

And what we tried to do in the documentary as well, Megan, is go back to 2019, where we have a very similar arrest take place with George Floyd. However, our leaders here in Minneapolis started parroting that they never knew who George Floyd was. They'd never heard of him before. Well, it turns out he was the center of an undercover drug investigation where they found thousands of dollars in pills on him that day. And his arrest, if you play side by side from 2019 to 2020, is so similar. And so we wanted to bring that out in the film as well, the same things he's talking about, the same resistance, et cetera. And also speaking to that officer who arrested George Floyd in 2019. But again, we were, we were lied to and said that

that, you know, never had happened before. It was like a playbook. I mean, you can see, this is a frequent flyer. He's very used to dealing with the cops. And while the untrained civilian watching this, you know, he's crying, he's a grown man. He's saying, please, please. You know, it's natural for you to be like, oh, poor guy. Look what's happening. And especially when you're watching it, knowing what what would ultimately happen to him this day, he would lose his life. But really, you have to understand it's a huge manipulation what you're watching. It's George Floyd trying to manipulate the cops because he wasn't shot the last time. His mom did not just die.

He's even like, I just had COVID. You know, like he he's trying to play every card in the book to generate some sympathy for the police who are trying to arrest him for having passed fake cash inside the store moments earlier. Please don't leave us because there's so much more to get to, and there's amazing soundbites coming your way that I think will really illuminate the case for you, as it has for all of us. Okay, stand by. Don't forget, you can stream their documentary, The Fall of Minneapolis, starting November 16th on the Alpha News Rumble channel at Alpha News MN. These are Minnesota people, and that's part of the reason they got all such great access. Or you can just go to thefallofminneapolis.com. We'll be right back.

They're with us for quite some time here. So George Floyd began immediately resisting as the passengers in his car were saying themselves, stop resisting. Then what we see from the body cam footage that you air shows before George Floyd ever got down on the ground with Derek Chauvin, he was saying, I can't breathe. He's throwing out a bunch of things that aren't true. You know, the mother did not just die. She died two years early. He did not get shot in his last encounter with police. That was a lie too. A lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. And then in the back of the car, he's doing what all police officers have experienced. He's trying to ratchet up his own personal issues so that they'll feel sorry for him and let him go. This is the cop's obvious perception because he's still functioning fine. He's like fighting.

He doesn't seem like somebody who's having trouble breathing, but he claims that before he ever has a knee on his shoulder, not his neck, as we're going to get to watch. Stop three. Please don't take a seat. I'm going in. No, you's not three. Okay, I'm not a bad guy man in the car. I'm not a bad guy Please I mean, as a former cop yourself, JC, he's large. He's hard to control. And he's wild. He's wild. You've got two cops who cannot get him under control. So for the people out there watching this saying, poor guy, you know, he's in trauma, he's in distress. What say you? There is something very telling when you hear

anyone you're trying to arrest say, I can't choke. I can't breathe. And nobody's on top of them. There's no knee on his neck or on his shoulder blade. There's barely even an officer touching him. The one officer who is touching basically his ankle at that point is officer Alex King, who is the black officer who arrested George Floyd. And when someone's trying to do that, there's also a part in there where George Floyd hits his face up against the partition. That's someone who's trying to do every single thing they can to avoid going to jail. And that's the scenario we're watching. And people need to understand, you know, you got to watch this understanding that cops put their lives on the line every day.

Every single encounter can be the police officers last. It happens all the time where they get shot. They get beaten. Somebody who's resisting arrest winds up getting the better of them. Floyd was handcuffed, but he was extremely strong and he was not complying at all and could and could withstand the strength of two law enforcement officers. So you can understand how adrenaline is running high here. He just just comply, just comply. He winds up on the ground, as we now all know. And you guys address in the film the you know, what the prosecutor said was eight minutes and forty six seconds.

You know, we heard that that many times. What we also heard was knee on the neck, knee on the neck, knee on the neck, knee on the neck, knee on the neck, knee on the neck. That's what Derek Chauvin did. That's what was so inhumane about him. He was strangling him. He was asphyxiating him in front of our very eyes. And this did get raised at trial. But what we actually know from the autopsies now and the body cams that you guys looked at with the officers is there was no knee on the neck. There was no knee on the neck, Liz. It was a knee on the shoulder, which is exactly how Derek Chauvin was trained to do it by Minneapolis PD. Here's a bit of George Floyd on the ground and sought for. Mama! Get your, uh... Oh!

Restraint. I can't breathe! Jesus Christ! Thank you. Mama! Mama! Mama! Mama! Mama!

Mama! And then let me just show video because we have a side by side here of the footage that tried to, you know, make it look like George Floyd had the show. Chauvin had the knee on the neck and then the other angle, which clearly shows, well, clearly is an exaggeration, but you can see it if you if you look knee on the shoulder, it was knee on the shoulder but you can see it if you look. Knee on the shoulder. It was knee on the shoulder. And my God, this really matters. That footage there on the left is what everybody saw. And they said knee on the neck. But the body cam footage from the officer, which is on screen right, shows it was on his shoulder. It was an optical illusion on the left-hand side. And it mattered, Liz. Yeah. And there's so much

to be said, Megan, also about the conversation the officers are having on the scene-hand side. And it mattered, Liz. Yeah. And there's so much to be said, Megan, also about the conversation the officers are having on the scene. You have this narrative that was concocted of seven, eight, nine minutes that, you know, it became this mantra, but nobody talks about the 36 seconds that pass before Thomas Lane calls for an EMS, for an ambulance to come to the scene. 36 seconds into it, 36 seconds into it, this heartless, inhumane killer, as that's what the prosecutor wants us to believe, made sure he called EMS to get there to help George Floyd. Before any of this has really gone down, he's like,

this guy needs medical attention, keep going. And we still to this day think that if they would have just been honest with these body camera videos from the very beginning, we clearly would not be here having this conversation. conversation, but they hit all of this including that conversation that the officers have about MRT, the maximal restraint technique. Again something we're told the very next day this is not something they recognize, this is not a part of training, and they were saying that very early on and we noticed that the training manuals, the two pages that address this MRT, just

disappeared offline and we have quite a bit about that, the two pages that address this MRT just disappeared offline. And we have quite a bit about that in the book as well. They were manipulating this case from the very beginning. Because if if MRT, which is maximal restraint technique, if that's allowed, if that's taught by the Minneapolis police to their officers, then they're on the hook. Then it's their fault. Then it's not a Derek Chauvin thing. It's a much better narrative for them. If you've got a rogue racist cop, forget the fact that King is black. We'll just skip right over the fact that he was the arresting officer and involved the whole time and never

abandoned Derek Chauvin. Much easier to look at Chauvin, the white guy, the one knee on the neck, again, a lie and say that's not an approved technique. As we heard the chief of police say under oath at trial, along with Minneapolis police officer Katie Blackwell, you've got that. It's sought 13. And then here's Chauvin's mother following up. Trained technique that's by the Minneapolis Police Department when you were overseeing the training unit? It is not. And how does this differ? I don't know what kind of improvised position that is. So that's not what we train.

All right. As you reflect on Exhibit 17, I must ask you, is this a trained Minneapolis Police Department defensive tactics technique? It is not. When I heard that part of the testimony, I really wanted to get up off my chair and yell, bullshit. Several of those witnesses testified that MRT, or the maximal restraint technique, was not a part of Minneapolis police policy. Hmm, they're not in the manuals? Well, they sure as hell are in Derek's training manuals. So how can they say that they don't exist?

That was Derek Chauvin's mother showing, showing the training manuals that were given to her son. How can this happen? How can it be that, you know, what you guys characterize as just lies in the film are told on the stand? Like why wasn't there officer after officer called by the defense council to rebut that, saying,

100%, it was taught to us all. Yeah. There's another layer of manipulation in here, of course. And most folks overlook the role and the capacity of a judge in a trial to shape and manipulate where that goes. And most of that is done through which evidence is allowed in the case and which evidence is conveniently excluded. So while you and I would say, well, clearly we should have had all of these, we should have had every officer on the force testify. That's only if a judge will allow that testimony or allow that evidence.

And so we know that MRT was not allowed in Derek Chauvin's trial at all, including also George Floyd's past drug arrests. They were not allowed either, and also some miscommunication, which we discuss in the documentary as well from EMS. And the EMS response time took much longer than it should have, and that was a big part of this case as well that was not allowed into Derek Chauvin's trial. Yes, because the fact that they called EMS so soon into the encounter, 36 seconds in, shows they did care. They were not proceeding recklessly or with absolutely no thought for George Floyd's well-being. They had thoughts for his well-being. They had thoughts for their well-being and the well-being of the community with this guy who was clearly extremely erratic and very strong, right? And so you have to think about all of that.

But what happened with the EMTs? So you document this. There was like a misfire with the EMTs, where they went to the wrong place, JC. Yeah, there's another thing about that. So conveniently, the section of the body cam footage where we have Thomas Lane asking for EMS response 36 seconds after Mr. Floyd's on the ground, which completely destroys the idea of mens rea, of intent to commit murder in this case. That goes out the window, but that was conveniently not allowed to be shared. But also, there's at the end of Thomas Lane's body cam video where he is actually in the ambulance. He does do CPR on Mr. Floyd to try and save his life, which is also conveniently excluded. He's also sitting in a fire truck where the driver of the fire truck, the engineer says, yeah, we didn't know the location.

We didn't know what was going on. Code two, code three. And then one of your officers says, and I'm paraphrasing, hey, ding-dongs, you're in the wrong spot. So what happened was we basically have a dispatcher or someone involved somewhere who's not having what should have been once they asked for a code three ambulance, fire. What does that mean? Minneapolis fire. What does that mean? Minneapolis fire. What's code three? Sorry. Code three is we need the absolute highest priority lights and sirens response. There is something life-threatening

going on. And 2TAL requested that. They actually escalated it from initially a code two to a code three. So come as fast as you can. Exactly. And at that point- We have that clip and you can, because I heard that clip where they said, this doesn't look like a code three. They get to the location. They're like, this doesn't look like a code three. Here it is. I think it's SOT5. And as we're seeing, I'm like, how is this a code three?

Like, I just don't understand. And then we figured out where it was. And then one of your officers was like, hey, anything goes. The wrong spot. Yep. Yeah. So that's that's a piece of it, because the the public narrative was it was all the bad cops that EMS and fire, quote, did everything right. And it's not that everybody needs to go under the bus, but in doing an honest expose on how this happened, you got to be honest about the fact that the EMS, they screwed up. They went to the wrong place. Right. And it was the fire truck, which should have happened once there was a code three request.

There is a fire station 17, which is just a few blocks of way. They should have been dispatched. They should have actually been there first. If you look at the logistics of it, they were actually probably took 20 minutes. And there's even testimony from the, let's just say, so-called eyewitness slash expert witness, Genevieve Hansen, a firefighter who was on scene, who also testified. And much of her testimony points out she was very concerned about this strange response fire should have been there first they could have began rendering aid exactly yeah she's featured in there the audience may remember her she was a she was an eyewitness to the george floyd situation and then when she took the stand she was all dressed in her emt outfit and she looked a lot more polished and you know but when she took the stand, she was all dressed in her EMT outfit and she looked

a lot more polished. And, you know, but when she was there on scene, she was just kind of yelling at the cops, kind of being a distraction. Yes. But yeah, she she was noticing where are the EMTs and the presumption was these heartless cops didn't call him. Go ahead, Liz. But you also just have that that miscommunication that's not allowed in trial and Thomas Lane working to save George Floyd's life in the ambulance that Judge Cication that's not allowed in trial and thomas lane working to save george floyd's life in the ambulance that judge cahill would not allow either the judge is a former prosecutor from the same prosecutor's office which i mean happens a lot you you become a d.a and then you become a judge um but you're supposed to be fair you know you have to be in a case like this

in which the officers are the ones who have a presumption against them. I mean, even more so than your average defendant, you've got to bend over backwards to make sure that they have a fair trial. There are real questions in here about whether that was done. I want to get to, just because I mentioned it, Alex King, you said he had just gotten on the job, brand new cop. He was he was the one of the four. There are two are minority one tau. He was Asian. King was black, glossed over in most of the media reports. You interviewed him and put the question right to him about whether he blames Derek Chauvin

because he's sitting in jail now, too. They're all in jail. Here it is. 15. Do you blame Chauvin for any of this? I don't. The way I see it is that he made the decisions he thought was right. As he did before, he's always been one that was by the book and legally abiding. I think he did exactly what he was trained to do. Unfortunate that the

publicity got as riled up as it did by all the officials and politicians that were involved with the case. And it took away any chance he had to even say his piece. Wow. It goes on people. It's worth listening to the whole thing. I mean, if anybody has a right to be bitter, it's that guy. But he's not bitter. He's actually quite lovely and serving time right now, which is dangerous for any cop. Let's go back to what happened in Minneapolis, because it's very relevant to the kind of trial that these guys had to face and where. So as everyone remembers, all hell broke loose in Minneapolis after this. And you do make the point in the film, and this to me was one of the most relevant points, it was an election year. We were months away from President Trump running for re-election,

love him or hate him, one of the most divisive figures in recent memory in America. And having been in this business for a long time, every election year, the Democrats find some white on black violence, cop on defendant violence, if the defendant's black and the cop is white, or even here black and you can ignore it. And they spin it up. I've been around long enough to see him do it. Election cycle after election cycle. They'll ignore the ones that happen in the interim. But if you're anywhere near November in a big election year, it'll be wallpapered. And this was right on brand. But the problem is people got hurt. Cops got hurt. Black Americans got hurt. I mean, dozens, scores. We're going to get into the numbers when Heather comes on and you interview. Is it Al Williams, Officer Officer Williams? Yeah.

Yeah. Al Williams, who who talks about the order that came down while the city was burning. You do such a great job of showing all the fires all over Minneapolis. Listen to this. SOT6. We were given a play-by-play over the radio, and the only sponsor we would get back is just copy, observe, and report. We watched them loot, we watched them light the Molotov cocktail, and we watched them throw it into the building. They're starting to throw Molotov cocktails.

We were ordered not to do anything. And then, I mean, this is so relevant to our audience and you forget because so much chaos ensued. The third precinct, the fall of the third precinct, the police precinct at the center of this controversy was allowed by the local officials to fall, to burn, to be destroyed. Here's a bit of that from the film. Again, there's much, much more on all of this. You should watch the documentary itself for the full story, thefallofminneapolis.com to get it. And also onble i follow alpha news mn but watch this dot seven so i get a command over the radio that we need to evacuate the third precinct

evacuate now evacuate now i said like right now we have to evacuate right now and they said yes. You need to evacuate now. Evacuate, evacuate, evacuate. Everything was happening so fast and there was such chaos. You know, the heart's racing right now talking about this. And we run. We run with our belts on and 50-some people and three SWAT teams, and we get to the fence, we can't get out. We got a call, we are sitting stuck here.

There was only one way in and one way out, and the way out was locked. Blue A3, they've reached the northwest corner of the fence. Northwest corner of the front has been reached. They're coming in, they're coming in the back. We need to move, we need to move. Need to move now. One of the squads rams through the fence to get it open. I remember looking through the rear-view mirror as we left.

It looked like a zombie movie. They all just rushed to the fence and started climbing the fence and they caused the fences to collapse and then they just all rushed the precinct. But as I got a maybe a quarter block away, I realized that not everyone was in vehicles. They were running basically for their lives at that point because they just left them basically with no plan of attack or no plan of exit from the precinct. So disturbing, Liz. So why? Why did that happen? You know, I say, Megan, that we had the perfect people in the perfect positions in Minnesota for

this to be allowed to play out. Amazingly, many of these politicians were reelected after all of this. But I will say it was impossible not to be affected during these interviews, conducting these interviews over the course of those weeks we did here in Minneapolis, because even years later, these officers are so affected by what they had to go through, basically served up to this angry mob by their so-called leadership. So that was really, really troubling. I mean, we felt honored that they trusted us to get this story right, but really just, it was heartbreaking. I think every single person we interviewed for the film broke down. And that, you know, in this business, you know

that that doesn't happen all the time. But, you know, the emotion, I think we wanted to portray that as well, because Minneapolis lost some of the best of the best police officers through all of this. And you don't really see light at the end of the tunnel. You don't know how the city can recover. And nobody's been held accountable for any of that, for anything that those officers had to go through, basically running for their lives from the precinct after they allowed to just surrender it to the mob. You got to, if you're not watching this on YouTube, you should go back and check it out on YouTube because you see the video clips of the people throwing rocks at the police cars, throwing Molotov cocktails at the police cars, and half the cops were on foot running. And the film points out they were denied riot gear. They were in the

middle of a war zone and they were told no, no riot gear that, you know, they thought it would be an escalation. So you can have a helmet and that's it. And one of the officers you interviewed was saying, we went out, a bunch of us would get hurt. We'd go back in, more would come out, hurt, injuries of the cops, back in, sent back out without the proper gear. This is the aftermath here at Precinct 3, which was given up. I was told that this is very insurrection-y, right? Like to take over a police precinct and basically set it on fire, absolutely ruin it. But only if you are, I guess, a Trump supporter in Washington, because otherwise, burn, baby, burn, JC. You look at this. It's got to make

you angry. It's got to make you angry as a former police officer to see what they were allowed to do. Yeah, it does. And then the worst part about it, and I hate to say this, but almost the expected part, is that there's this void of leadership. They're so focused on scapegoating folks, but at what point do you realize you want to call it the symbolism of a building? That's very cute, Mayor Fry. That's very cute. Good for you and your staff for writing it that way. But think of the message that you've just sent to everyone who lives here. If the police cannot protect themselves, what are they going to do for me? And just think of the vulnerability, the vulnerability that people now have. The police can't protect me and we are in the middle of a riot while the city is burning.

I cannot, I'd like to think I have a great imagination. I can't imagine what that would be like to be a citizen of Minneapolis and see this go on and then have no one, weeks, months, and now years later, take any accountability for that. It does all those things. It's enraging. Open season on cops. And that Mayor Jacob Fry is a villain. He's a villain, in my opinion. You put him up there. You referenced his soundbite. We have it. It made news when he said it. It remains

even bigger news today, Saad 8. The symbolism of a building cannot outweigh the importance of life, of our officers or the public. We could not risk serious injury to anyone. What is he talking about? What, what is he trying? What it was, it was, they were permitted, right? They were allowed to, to ruin it, to burn it, to, to loot it, to, I mean, why, why is he acting like, oh, it just kind of happened. And so we did a quick evacuation and, you know, like they didn't stay and fight for it because they didn't care about the building. That's, that's not how it went down. Yeah, and that's what happened in the days that followed all of this, really in the hours. It was these politicians who didn't care about the truth from the very beginning, even though it was

literally right in front of them. This didn't have to happen, as I've said before. And these cops, many of them have been through riots before. This wasn't the first riot to break out in Minneapolis, but it's never been like this, that they are actively told to not do anything. Those were the orders again and again. But instead of politicians standing up and saying, you know, this is the truth, this is what happened, you had them fanning the flames from the very beginning. That was just a day in, day out. And they actually thought, Megan, that if they gave up the precinct that night, that this would stop all of the rioting in Minneapolis. out. And they actually thought, Megan, that if they gave up the precinct that night, that this would stop all of the rioting in Minneapolis. That's what they thought. Of course,

we know that that did not happen. It went on well after that. But it's certainly disgusting, even to me now, after putting this all together. That was hard sort of sorting through the emotion. This documentary could have been six hours long, to be quite honest. But just how disgusting for somebody to be allowed into your workplace, your home, as these these cops called it, and just be allowed to destroy it. They no one stood up for them. The mayor threw him under the bus. The governor threw him under the bus. The chief of police. What happened with him? Why did this guy we saw it at Chauvin's trial? I mentioned him. It's Arredondo. He's saying, oh, no, we never trained the MRT. So what was there? No one in a supervisory role over the cops to come out and say, hold on. Well, interesting. That's sort of my connection to

all of this with my husband being the police union leader. He came out very early on and just said, keep calm heads. We are going to review the body camera footage, et cetera. And he was vilified for that, if you can believe it, to be patient and let the investigation take its course. So we saw what happened. I mean, I personally, you know, we received death threats in the mail. I lost the position that I held for a dozen years at the station where I worked. And I'm the wife of a cop. I mean, cancel culture came after all law enforcement families, I think, in some way, shape or form.

And Bob quickly, you know, had to sort of keep quiet because of what was happening to our family at that point, sadly. Right. There was only one position to have on this case. And it certainly was not a fair trial or a fair examination of the officer's defense. Liz and JC stay with us. We'll get to the trial next. Don't go away. And remember you can find the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM triumph channel one 11 every weekday at noon East, the full video show. And today you really should watch it, watch it instead of just listen at youtube.com slash slash Megyn Kelly. So Derek Chauvin and the other cops, the other three cops, all got arrested and charged with various crimes. Derek Chauvin right now is serving 20 years for murder, murder in the second degree. The other cops treated as his accomplices. They're all in jail

for three to four years. The one cop, Tao, he got an extra long sentence because he wasn't apologetic enough. But we watched that when the judge sentenced him. I would have expected you to be more contrite. He stood up there and said, I didn't do anything wrong. Oh, here's another year for you. It's unbelievable. So they're all sitting in jail right now. And no one else is getting prosecuted in America, but these four did. And one of Derek Chauvin's, his main arguments on appeal and to get a new trial is he should have been granted a change of venue. He needed a change of venue. He should never have been forced to face a Minneapolis jury. My God, it's so self-evident. It's amazing to me that under these circumstances, no one's entertaining that. I know they're saying,

well, everyone in America knew about this different story in the heart of Minneapolis. As you guys do a great job of pointing out, you interview one of his lawyers, not Eric Nelson in this particular clip. It's Bill Mormon talking about what the message was to the jurors coming in and out of that courthouse every day in SOT 12. What kind of message do you think that sent to the jury, seeing those scenes outside the courthouse every day? I don't have to speculate on the message the jurors had in their minds. Every juror had a stake in the outcome of that case, because every juror knew that if there was a not guilty finding,

there was a less than trivial and actually substantial risk that there would be riots in their community again. George Floyd! George Floyd! Say his name! George Floyd! Say his name! George Floyd! It's unbelievable.

And honestly, that's just what they saw outside the courthouse. You zoom out, as you do in this film, and you see the fall of Minneapolis.com. You see the politicians right up to the president of the United States, or at least the man who was about to be president of the United States. Calling like calling this case out, taking a position on it. Nancy Pelosi, the then speaker of the House, taking a position before the jury had ever had its say in a court of law. You show it. We're going to show a bit of it here. Take a look at SOT 19.

Shaven is in the courtroom, but America's on trial. Thank you, George Floyd, for sacrificing your life for justice. But even Dr. King's assassination did not have the worldwide impact that George Floyd's death did. I mean, you couldn't find more prominent people. Speaker of the House, the Democratic nominee for president. By the way, Joe Biden seems so much more vibrant just three years ago in that clip than he does now. It's kind of amazing to see. Think of the odds against these cops, these cops who'd been demonized. You show I'd never seen this in the film. They were throwing dead pigs at the cops outside of the precinct, Liz. Yeah, it's it's amazing everything that they were. They were basically paraded. Also, these police officers during their court hearings before

they decided to let them access some of the back ways to get into the courthouse. But that was what was happening in the early days. They allowed the mob to basically get as close as possible and throw things at them for their court hearings and such. And you also, Meghan, have this $27 million settlement with George Floyd's family that is announced during jury selection for Derek Chauvin's trial. A lot of people don't remember the details of that as well. But we wanted to bring that to light, too. The images of this courthouse are insane.

National Guardsmen standing guard there, barbed wire. And remember, the jury wasn't sequestered for Derek Chauvin's trial. So they were paraded in and out each and every day through all of this. So what kind of message? What's the barbed wire for? The barbed wire is there in case you reach the wrong decision. Just FYI, if you reach the wrong decision, your city is going to burn like it's never even burned before, including after George Floyd died. So just so you know, and by the way, if that's not clear enough, listen to Maxine Waters and others making perfectly clear what is expected of you. Here is SOT 20. We're looking for a guilty verdict. We're looking for a guilty verdict.

What should protesters do? Well, we got to stay on the street and we've got to get more active. We've got to get more confrontational. We've got to make sure that they know that we mean business. This council is going to dismantle this police department. City councilman. All right, they're telling me to say it again. This council is going to dismantle this police department. do you believe there is systemic racism in law enforcement absolutely our commitment is to end our city's toxic relationship with the minneapolis

police department to end policing as we know it This is the part that makes me upset. What human can get a fair trial with that? Take Derek Chauvin out of it. Maybe you hate Derek Chauvin. You've made up your mind. You don't forgive him for the eight minutes, whatever. You don't buy the MRT. You believe in the rule of law.

We have to. As flawed as it may be and its application may be, we've seen it this year, we have to provide criminal defendants against whom the system is stacked, no question, with a fair trial, with a process that ensures fairness to the best that we are able to provide it. This is exactly the opposite of it. J.C., you you you write you talk about in the film. This is why cop after cop. They're out of there after this. You know what happened to these guys? Who in their right mind would go out on the streets of Minneapolis and make arrests, especially a white cop? But you could be a black cop to ask Officer King of a black defendant. Forget it. It's insane. Yeah. And amazingly, one of the worst things I've actually had to deal with in working on this documentary just happened a few

weeks ago when we finished up and I was on the, on the phone with Derek and he said to me, I just want you and everyone else to know that if I had to go back in time I would do this all over again so nobody else would have to even where he is right now and I have tremendous respect for anyone who could say that and this is a person who let's let's not even talk about impartiality because that went out the window with all this propaganda and let's just call these leaders so-called leaders sock puppets. They're great at it. Let's get rid of that for a second because it's not in play. Where's the civility? We have all of this self-righteousness, this political righteousness that's overcome any sense of civility and unreasonable doubt,

that now has become the most unreasonable thing going. That should really give everyone, everyone, we are against this same system of justice, a moment to pause and say, wait a minute, I don't like what America has become, what the American justice system has become. And very few people are recognizing that. Yes, ma'am. What do you think he meant by that, that he would do it all over again? Like the behaviors with Floyd or going to jail? What did he mean? I think, and I asked him up when I, you know, this was, this was tough. I'd love to be the tough guy right now and say, I didn't have a lump in my throat when he said that to me on the other end of the phone calling from prison. What he meant was so that another officer, someone else

would not have to suffer this indignity, this tragedy, this being thrown under the bus. He sort of reckoned that, I guess it was my role as an officer to take this. And if that's what it is, then I will take that so no other officer has to deal with that. And you also have in the film, Alex King speaking to this as well. I asked that question kind of again and again of everyone, what does this say about our justice system in America? And why I also say that even if you don't have a connection to law enforcement, this case is so important if you are a citizen of this

country. This is the system we're supposed to believe in. And it's hard to watch this film and believe in it anymore after everything that was allowed to transpire. But you have Alex King speaking to that, saying that if there's one thing that people can take away from this case, it's that we can't be so quick to judge. Don't let the mob control. Don't let the media manipulate you. We are smarter than this as a human race, I think. And question these things. And that's the message that he seemed to want to share. But you weren't allowed to question anything. You know, you guys weren't here, but I've told the story a few times down the show, but just quickly, my fourth grade daughter, then fourth grade daughter was in a Tony,

New York private school at this time. And the teachers handed out a Newzilla article on Chauvin's case and he had just been convicted and the girls read up some facts and they said that the teacher stood up and said, there's a massive problem in America with police killing black men. And one of the girls raised her hand and said, well, wasn't George Floyd resisting arrest? And the teacher said, they always blame the victim. And then my daughter said, well, wasn't George Floyd on a? And the teacher said they always blame the victim. And then my daughter said, well, wasn't George Floyd on a lot of drugs? And the teacher said, this conversation is making me uncomfortable and I'm shutting it down right now. Even at the fourth grade level, you were not allowed to talk about the bad facts for the we all hate Derek Chauvin side.

Even when that's the assignment is to discuss the verdict and how they got there. You're just not allowed to discuss anything that the defense offered up because it makes people uncomfortable, makes them feel like maybe they're in the presence of a bigot. That's the whole thing got spun into a race narrative, even though there was no evidence that Derek Chauvin was a racist at all. He just happened to be white. Floyd happened to be black. That's people forget that this is not a cop spewing expletives or, you know, slurs, nothing like that. Nothing like that came out. It's not a Furman situation where there's like secret tapes of him using the N-word. Right.

So let's spend a minute, though, on the drugs, because the drugs, they're a huge part of it. And we talked about this on our Kelly's Court. We do these legal segments. And the fact that one of the DAs who was there at this prosecutor's office for 20 years filed a civil suit against her bosses recently for some sort of sex discrimination case. And while under oath, she said she resigned, first of all, because she refused to prosecute those other three cops. She didn't think it was right. But she said the day of the autopsy, because he was, Floyd was autopsied by the ME, that, you know, the guy sitting working for the city that day. And she went and spoke to him and that he said to her, this looks like a drug death death. He did. He was not asphyxiated. He didn't have injuries to his neck. What do you do when the narrative that everybody believes doesn't line up with the actual facts? And then he looked at her and said,

this is the kind of case that can end careers. So can you just spend a minute on the fentanyl that was in George Floyd's system and how honestly, I look back at these tapes, it explains everything. Right. Yeah, anytime you have anyone in an altered state and even for someone who's not a police officer, I think you could tell you have an

individual put aside the resisting, put aside the not following commands, who's in an altered state. That is not a natural way most people go about the day. And if you were allegedly stopped by law enforcement for an alleged crime, you probably would handle that a lot differently, or most folks would. Hey, I didn't do it. There'd be some back and forth or some trying to honestly get to the bottom of something. Here from the word go, we had all the lies. And then we had this problem with breathing. And fentanyl during COVID, at the time when this was coming through as well, most folks didn't realize this on the street that, hey, if you have this mix of COVID with fentanyl, it's not going to go well for your breathing. They realized this in emergency rooms, that the bandwidth for administering that as a remedy seemed very narrow with this type of contagion but out on the street your average drug dealers drug users etc anyone who's

abusing Fentel didn't know that now you combine fentanyl with methamphetamine sort of the new generation of a speedball and then you throw in heart conditions what that's going to do to even someone who's seasoned and used to it, it's not going to work out well. And now you have someone who tests positive for COVID, has taken fentanyl and methamphetamine at the same time. At least one that is seven blocked in the middle of exerting oneself, fight or flight situation with the police, doesn't want to go back to jail. And we're supposed to believe that had no effect whatsoever on the cause of death. And that's why we wanted to bring out these documents. And again, these documents are public documents, Megan. This isn't, this is something that was in front of the press the entire time with three times the lethal limit

of fentanyl in George Floyd's system. And also how this narrative by Dr. Baker, the Hennepin County medical examiner seems to change as he's meeting again and again with, with, with prosecutors. So you can sort of see how this, this story is changing in those early days. And the FBI is sitting in almost from day one. Right. Which is a level of intimidation. He told his local DA with whom he clearly had a relationship. I don't like where this is going. And then when the FBI got in there, suddenly it started to be, well, it's nuanced. And ultimately the cause of death, he talked about how it was like, he was cardiac arrest, complicating by, it was sort of a weird choice of words, what happened with law enforcement. And it was, to me, it just had this stink of manipulation all over it.

He was told, get what the cops did to him in here somehow. It's got to be. And, you know, it's so simple. Even a group of fourth grade girls got it on reading one Newzilla article. He resisted arrest and he was on too many drugs. They got it like that. You know why? Because they haven't been watching all the media spin and the manipulation and Maxine Waters and Joe Biden out there. They just read the facts and said, gee, it's pretty clear he had 11. What was it? Nanograms. I don't know what the unit is. And geez, a fentanyl in him and three nanograms will kill your average person. He was bigger. He was a user, but still 11. And then he chose to resist, which shoots the adrenaline up. And he had a cardiac position, a condition, and he had lungs that were two or three size times the size of a normal lung. He had so many issues. And yet we heard Al Sharpton and this is in the documentary.

He was healthy. He was healthy. The cops killed a healthy man. Then the Floyd family brought in Dr. Michael Bodden, who I loved when I was on Fox, but this was half-assed to put it mildly, as their new forensic pathologist to give his take on how he died. Not to mention Benjamin Crump, who's the new Al Sharpton, the lawyer who exploits all of these cases. And here's a bit of those two in Sat 10. George Floyd was a healthy young man. Sure.

The autopsy shows that Mr. Floyd had no underlying medical problem that caused or contributed to his death. First of all, it's just dawning me. I mean, now, did Dr. Madden speak at the funeral? No, this is a press conference that is held. And it's also interesting timing wise to Megan, because, again, you have the the autopsy on George Floyd conducted within 12 hours of his death, but there's a reason that was withheld from the public for so long, basically timed at the same time that this announcement comes from the so-called independent autopsy review that George Floyd's family paid for. And you saw the media push that autopsy, you know, from the beginning. And first of all, there's zero chance George Floyd's family actually paid for that. Somebody

swooped in, some activist swooped in and paid for Dr. Bodden. Not anybody can afford Dr. Bodden. And Dr. Bodden, who's, you know, been an expert in many, many trials, is a hired gun. And he didn't review the toxicology. He didn't get to examine the body. He went off of whatever was provided to him. Isn't that right? Yeah, basically the Facebook video. And you even see the caveat where they say, well, we understand that a review of the toxicology report, that further investigation is necessary for our autopsy report, they say. And I'm not sure how you can even do that by conveniently excluding a toxicology report. I don't even know how that's even possible. And the ME who did do the examination, this Dr. Baker, said he did not die of asphyxiation. He wasn't strangled.

He didn't have his air supply cut off and there are no injuries on his neck. Of course, we know why the knee was on the shoulder blade. There wasn't an injury to George Floyd's neck. And the I can't breathe narrative had started long before cops had him on the ground. The documentary does a great job of laying all of this out. So, and by the way, you do, you point out the documentary, George Floyd lied about being sober at the moment. They, they said, are you on something? And not only do we know he was on something from the toxicology, you, you do a closeup of the pills in his mouth while he's getting pulled out of the car. It's amazing. I hadn't seen that before. And it matters. You do a good job. Like explain, Liz, why did it matter that George Floyd did not tell the cops?

Yeah, I might have taken something. They would have been able to to get him medical help there sooner. They would have made that call sooner and they asked repeatedly several times and he says no, not only about what's in his mouth, but they recover pills with his saliva from the very vehicle that he's in. And that took months to even go back and search that car, which is another interesting twist we talk about more in the book that this movie is based on. But yes, there were certainly so many things that we were not allowed to see. So where are we today? I outlined a few of the consequences of all of this at the top of the

show, but how is Minneapolis doing? How, how is the police force they're doing? We followed in 2021, they did defund the police in Minneapolis and then they refunded the police about within a year because they saw exactly what that would get them, which is more death, more crime, more chaos. So for all their sweeping rhetoric, they came to realize the hard way you need police in Minneapolis and everywhere. But so how are things today? Well, there's a reason we call the film The Fall of Minneapolis,

because it is unrecognizable in so many ways. You have a police force down 380 police officers from where it was at the beginning of May of 2020 and skyrocketing crime. Carjackings in Minneapolis, for example, they weren't even tracked before all of this. There'd maybe be a dozen or so every year. Well, there's hundreds now every year. Homicide numbers almost doubled in the wake of all this. We go into the film quite a bit,

but I think what happened in Minneapolis kind of traveled, obviously. The match was lit here in Minneapolis and spread all across the country. So I think numbers are very similar in many of these cities across the country, but many people don't go into Minneapolis anymore. It was a place before people felt safe to shop downtown, restaurants. Minneapolis has lost thousands of businesses in the wake of all this because people simply do not feel safe. JC, you've spoken with Derek Chauvin. How is he doing? I would say that the conversations I had with him about a year ago were were painful. It's painful to listen to. And now, it seems like he's at least becoming more aware of himself and realized that a lot of things went on that he thought happened, but didn't, in his case, and that a lot of things went on that he thought happened, but didn't in his case, and that a

lot of things that he thought didn't happen actually did. And I think he went through a good three, four month period of just utter disbelief. He couldn't understand why his defense attorney didn't file a particular motion or didn't ask for a particular witness. So if you can imagine after spending a year in solitary, what that alone can do to you, and then you come out and realize everything in my trial didn't happen as I thought it did, the disbelief that that can put on someone. I think now he's starting to realize the situation. He's more aware of it. And it's good to see him sticking up for himself and taking action. And also, the federal government limited his opportunities for appeal.

The only thing he can appeal is if there's something called ineffective assistance of counsel. That is the only basis he has left. unlike other people who can explore other emotions. He cannot. So it's better now. I'm not going to say making jokes. He's not that type of a creative person, but he is at least aware and taking action and trying to do things for himself in his situation. And even more telling, he's become a lot more concerned for his family and his friends. I'm sure he is suffering from some PTSD of his own. There's

just no question. They probably all are in the Minneapolis Police Department writ large, nevermind those four. So, I mean, his wife left him. Remember there was like a lot happened. Can I just ask you, is he in gen pop now? He's not, is he, it just doesn't seem safe. Uh, he is not receiving any other protective, you know, treatment or anything like that. He's, he's basically, if you will, in the gen, genual population. Yeah. Wow. Gosh. And there for 20 years, unless, you know, gets the needle in the haystack acceptance of his case from the Supreme Court. You too. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks to your husband for his service. And JC, thank you for yours, Liz. Nice to meet you both. Thank you, Megan. Thank you. Reminder, you can stream the documentary starting

tomorrow, The Fall of Minneapolis. You can catch it on Rumble, on the Alpha News MN channel, or just go to thefallofminneapolis.com. Sirius XM, December 6th in a live primetime event, the News Nation Republican Primary Debate. Sirius XM's Megyn Kelly returns to the moderator's seat. I'll ask the questions you want to hear. Real issues, tough questions, every contender. Because if you want to be the leader of the free world, you better be ready to give America the answers they're looking for. Live from the University of Alabama, the News Nation Republican Primary Debate. Moderated by Sirius XM's Megyn Kelly and News Nation's Elizabeth Vargas.

December 6th, 8 p.m. Eastern. Watch it on News Nation, America's fastest-growing cable news network. Find News Nation on your screen at joinnn.com or listen on Sirius XM Triumph's Channel 111. Go to siriusxm.com slash m MK show to subscribe and get three months free. Offer details apply. The News Nation Republican primary debate. See you on the debate stage. To find News Nation on your TV, go to joinnn.com. They failed when they gave up that precinct. Our department still hasn't recovered from that, and it's three years later. Overall crime is way up. Give me the keys. Give me the money. Everything. Keys. Everything. Everything.

How they ignore that or don't pay attention to that is beyond me. It's just another example of why we're in this situation we're in now. Can you even keep up? No. Another clip from the fall of Minneapolis, talking about the fallout to the city from what they did to the police. Welcome back to The Megyn Kelly Show. Now we turn to one of our favorites, really, truly one of the most brilliant people in America and beyond, who has written so brilliantly about the George Floyd case right from the beginning,

which took real guts. Heather MacDonald is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and author of fantastic books like When Race Trumps Merit and The War on Cops. Heather, welcome back. Great to have you. It's an honor, Megan. Thank you for having me. You got me through the post-George Floyd period because I was looking around thinking all this stuff they're saying about cops, I know it's not true. My brother's a cop. He was a lieutenant in the Albany police force, served honorably for many years. He's retired now. I know it's not true, but I don't have the stats in front of me. I don't have the words. I don't have the in-depth knowledge to articulate it. And then I started reading some of your pieces, which were written at the time

during this, when everybody was caving and going along with the narrative, as we just outlined in covering this new documentary, there was Heather MacDonald, who really is like, I don't care what you say about me. I'm just going to stick with truth. And you can believe me or not believe me, but here are the cold, hard facts. And by the way, for the audience at home, I've talked about this. That time when some 400 Wall Street Journal employees, Wall Street Journal said, we're going to walk off the job. We're so upset about certain editorials that you're running. Heather McDonald was at the center. They didn't like what Heather McDonald was saying. They didn't like her facts.

And to its credit, the Wall Street Journal said, take care. Bye. Off you go. We're not getting rid of Heather or any other diverse views. And if you don't like it, you can go work someplace else. So you're not surprised one bit to see that clip I used to bump into you of what's happened in Minneapolis once they have lost, as that tick, tick, tick, tick, tick was showing us, some almost 400 cops. They went from 892 to

513 police there. It's happened in city after city after city. Well, crime went up and the George Floyd year of the George Floyd race riots, homicides went up 29 percent, which was the largest increase in history in this country. Last year, violent victimizations were up 75 percent, which is the most in 30 years. That's according to the National Criminal Victimization Survey. We have unleashed anarchy upon American cities, Megan. We have seen the videos of the lootings. We've seen the videos of the beatings. We've seen the videos of the shopliftings. And yet America continues turning its eyes away from the inner city dysfunction that is leading to this and to the absolute demoralization of the cops. This documentary is very important because America does have a tendency

to want to forget. And the footage of the arrest, which I'd never seen before, the minutes, the agonizing minutes when this went on, is extraordinarily depressing to see George Floyd, who is the embodiment of inner city pathologies, and then to see the arson, the firebombing, the grotesque, self-interested, narcissistic, entitled looting that spread across the land. We cannot let this be forgotten because it shows what happens when you demonize the cops based on a completely phony narrative. Here's another statistic, Megan. A police officer is 400 times more likely to be killed by a Black male than an unarmed Black male is to be killed by a cop. So if, as we hear from the libertarians all the time, like Radley Balko, who says, oh, all this belly aching about how dangerous it is to do felony car stops.

This is really a safe, safe profession. Well, if it's so safe to be a cop, then being a Black male, an unarmed Black male vis-a-vis police officers is 400 times safer. So the whole Black Lives Matter narrative that our President Joe Biden constantly reinforces is a 100 percent falsehood. And it's tentacles. The tentacles of that movement are getting people killed every day, largely in black communities where crime is running rampant. No one seems to care. But in the entire United States, there was a case just yesterday or this week that I saw involving a girl named Jillian Ludwig. This is horrific. Jillian Ludwig was a university student. She was at Belmont and she was shot two blocks from campus running in the middle of the afternoon in a park.

The defendant is a man named Shaquille Taylor. She's white. He's black. He was in jail earlier this year. The DA's office said three doctors deemed him mentally incompetent to stand trial, meaning he could not be prosecuted. Guess what they did? They let him go. They sent him right back out onto the streets without a care for safety. This is in one of those jurisdictions with a Soros funded DA who has zero appetite for prosecuting crime is in one of those jurisdictions with a Soros-funded DA who has zero appetite for prosecuting crime, in particular crime committed by young men who happen to be Black. Well, the entirety of what's going on, the travesty that is our criminal justice system today nationally, in city after city with these progressive prosecutors declaring off-limits entire categories of crime,

like shoplifting or fair beating or most preposterously and dangerously resisting arrest. It cannot be understood unless you understand disparate impact. It is all about avoiding disparate impact on black criminals. That is the only reason why we have police chiefs telling their cops, don't make car stops, don't stop for petty theft. It's why prosecutors aren't prosecuting. It's why judges are letting people back on the street. But the fact of the matter is, you cannot enforce the law in a colorblind constitutional matter without having a disparate impact on black criminals because the

crime rates are so high. Because we have more Blacks in prison does not mean we're a racist criminal justice system. It means that the inner city culture is right now in a very, very bad state. Boys are not being socialized. They are engaging in these barbaric drive-by shootings that are taking dozens of young Black children's lives, none of whom have ever once been commemorated by Al Sharpton or Benjamin Crump. Never once. Never once has a Black Lives Matter activist said, say their names. Instead, this is another tragedy of our time, Megan. Our civil rights heroes now are today thugs like George Floyd. I'm not going to mince my words because you don't either. He was a thug. He beat up women. He was a drug dealer, had a long felony record. He's now our

civil rights hero. That's very tragic. That is a very, very far distance from the noble civil rights warriors who sat in patiently, passively, nonviolently, wearing suits, wearing ties to bring this nation up to its highest ideals. Now we have our activists pulling down any standard that has a disparate impact on blacks. And that is a recipe not just for the loss of black lives, but for the loss of an entire civilization. I was telling the story of what happened with my daughter in the fourth grade when they tried to speak truth about what happened with George Floyd raising some of these issues, got shut down. Roland Fryer, Harvard, the worst case of, this is a black man, a scholar,

who took an honest look at police-involved shootings involving black men and didn't come up with the right narrative, Heather, and they've ruined his career. Well, Derek Chauvin is a martyr to white obsession with blaming themselves. I mean, we have this narrative that says the biggest problem in this country is white supremacy. You have the FBI times the rate of white juveniles because they're being shot by other blacks at 100 times the rate, at least, of what white juveniles engage in in gun violence. Blacks die of gun homicide between the ages of 10 and 24 at 24 times the rate of whites in that age cohort. All of this is because of black crime. And yet we're supposed to pretend that the problem is whites and elite whites go

along with it. You know, the crime that you mentioned of this young girl, the reason we're not talking about it, the reason that's not on the air is because it's the usual black on white crime. That is the reality of interracial violence today, Megan. Blacks commit 87% of all interracial violence between blacks and whites and whites and blacks. A black is 35 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa. And yet we are engaged in this massive suicidal falsehood, which says that whites are the problem. We are not the problem today. Black privilege is the reality, not white privilege. We were a white supremacist country. We're not that reality today. But if we continue demonizing cops and demonizing law enforcement, yes, we're going to lose Black lives at astronomical

rates, but this is spreading everywhere. When white conservatives stop caring about Black lives, nobody's going to care. The only people who ever talk about Black victims is you, you know, maybe the Daily Wire people, Fox News, the New York Post, The New York Times doesn't give a damn. It seems like it's only white conservatives who care. Instead, you have people like the mayor of Chicago, Brandon Johnson, who sadly was elected by the south side of Chicago, by the west side of Chicago, who promised he was one of the sort of early philosophy of defunding, whether he used the actual words, I don't know, but he made clear that he thought that the police were the problem and the solution was more resources and that these kids that were marauding on the magnificent mile, well, they had a loss of opportunity when in fact they all have smartphones. You know,

a kid that has a smartphone is not a deprived kid as far as I'm concerned. And all of these kids that are engaged in this mass looting, they're all videoing themselves on their smartphones. This is not a lack of opportunity. It's a lack of socialization. It's a lack of decent schooling that generates discipline and self-control and does not excuse pathological behavior. And we're doing nothing to remedy that. People like Roland Fryer were trying to call attention to it, but no, he's been silenced. They drummed up some fake Me Too, you know, minuscule allegations against him and blew it into this mountainous thing to stop his research. I mean, we did a whole story on this documentary that was done about him where the young research assistant, if memory service was also a minority, looked at him and said,

I don't want to tell you the answer that we came up with. And he was like, well, what is it? And the answer is there's not a disparate, like the cops are not disproportionately killing black defendants. Like we're just not seeing it or shooting. And you put numbers on that. You had a piece that was in, I think it was in the journal. Yeah, it was right after George Floyd and pointed out there are 375 million annual contacts that the cops have with civilians, 375 million annual contacts that the cops have with civilians. And if you look at the Washington Post list of how many unarmed black men are shot by cops each year, it's in the single digits out of three hundred and seventy five million. And out of 10 over 10,000 million homicide deaths, dozens of blacks are killed every single day. That's more than all white and Hispanic homicide victims combined, even though

blacks are only 13 percent of the population. Again, we don't talk about that because we have this extraordinary discomfort with black pathologies. And it's not just blacks, of course. The white underclass is moving up fast and it's drug use and it's family breakdown. The one thing that blacks still have a monopoly on, I'm going to be very blunt here, Megan, is drive-by shootings. By and large, you know, in New York City, blacks and Hispanics commit virtually 100% of all shootings. Whites are 34% of the population. They commit about 1% at most of drive-by shootings. And I think even that number is frankly a little suspect. But all of these things are very predictable. When you have a culture where young boys are not expected to cultivate the bourgeois habits to make themselves decent mates and husbands, where it's accepted to go around serially impregnating females and walking away. And family rearing, child rearing is utterly chaotic. It's sort of an afterthought. And that's happening now in the white underclass as well. That's a civilization of catastrophe.

It's tragic that kids are being brought up in these situations, but it's certainly not surprising that they now are completely antisocial and think that they are entitled to steal wantonly. You know, I don't know how much longer we're going to put up with this, but as I say, there is something profoundly weird about Western civilization right now, Megan, that seems to be on this death cult, that it wants to destroy the standards, the norms, the merit, the excellence, the striving for excellence that gave us a civilization that has freed all of humanity from the usual squalor and deprivation and disease and early mortality that everybody has benefited from. And now we're declaring medicine racist. We're declaring science racist. We're saying that doctors should be hired, should be admitted to medical school and promoted because they're black, not because they're competent. This is happening in every science field. We have this belated, but at this point,

way, way exaggerated guilt for our history of slavery that is no longer merited. The West was the civilization that ended slavery. Britain had to occupy Lagos in order to get it to end its involvement in the slave trade. It had to blockade the coast of Africa to get it to end its involvement in slave trade. Everybody, other civilizations were saying, no, we want to continue with chattel slavery. At this point, the West has nothing to apologize for, and yet it is bent on a mission of self-destruction. Yeah, and it's working. And it's not just these, you know, underclass privilege or lacking privilege, blacks or whites. It's college students, as you and I have discussed, who are completely clueless about it, are just leaning into the disparate impact thing.

Or as we saw in this one clip the other day, the generational trauma that comes with just having been born, quote, indigenous or black, what have you. And like she's been with the facts about the cops, Heather's not afraid to go into these college campuses and take on these zealots. I loved it. Somebody, I don't know if it was you, but somebody tweeted out just a highlight of you at Berkeley recently. And they said, oh, it's really worth watching the whole clip. So of course, since I'm your huge Somebody, I don't know if it was you, but somebody tweeted out just a highlight of you at Berkeley recently. And they said, oh, it's really worth watching the whole clip. So, of course, since I'm your huge fan, I went, I watched the whole thing. I watched the whole hour of you at Berkeley. And gosh, you you're just totally fearless because, of course, these college students got up there and were all over you. And you were like, boom, boom, boom.

We have just a little bit of it because, yeah, because we love you. We played it already, but I'm going to play it right now. It's on 24. I just want to tell you right now that your book is racist. Your arguments are racist. They are based in eugenics. They are based on ideas that black people and brown people can never compete with white and Asian counterparts. Why should we take any of this seriously when it seems that nothing else that you want to do is just pedal, pedal, racist drivel? Well, if I believe that blacks can never

compete, I would say, yeah, we've got to lower standards because that's the only hope for getting diverse institutions. In fact, I believe that if we held single standards and had high expectations that blacks would compete, as to your misreading from my book, that was simply an empirical observation about the current situation in a regime of ubiquitous racial preferences. You can admit black students with a standard deviation below SAT grades into college. The gap does not close by the end of college. Let me just give you the data that explains why you can have diversity or you can have meritocracy, you can't have both. 66% of

black 12th graders do not possess partial mastery of basic math skills defined as doing arithmetic or being able to read a graph. 66%, the number who are advanced in 12th grade math is too small to show up statistically on a national sample. That is the reality. That is why we do not have racially proportionate institutions. You said, how could we possibly be in an institution that's racist? Sweetheart, the name of the school represents that that they just changed it like 10 minutes ago there was a time that most of the people standing in this room would never be allowed on this campus and i'm telling you that we didn't get here by wanting it we worked hard so for me to be here at this school that i pay to go to that i worked hard to get into and to listen to you say blacks

this black that and welfare mothers and all this other extra bullshit saying that Asian students always like all the things you're saying, I think can be solved by education. And I encourage you to get yourself educated. Did you get yourself educated after that? You know, I said at the beginning that it was depressing to see the Floyd arrest video. And this was as depressing, but also obviously laughable, because it's very depressing to see these black students who are the most privileged individuals in human history because they have at their fingertips the thing that Faust sold his soul for, which is knowledge. And in fact, they're surrounded by the most well-meaning adults. Think of themselves as victims. It's absolutely preposterous. We know that Berkeley, we know that the majority of them have been admitted to racial preference by racial preferences. Why? Because Berkeley tells us that

without racial preferences, it's not going to be able to get its critical mass of black students. So, so much does Berkeley want its black students, this is the law school, that it is admitting them with a standard deviation below in academic skills. And yet they're going around claiming that they are victimized by racism at the Berkeley Law School. It's utterly preposterous. And yet they are being cultivated to think this way by the entire diversity, equity and inclusion bureaucracy, by presidents, by deans. This is, you know, this moment. It's very good that the Minneapolis documentary is coming.

The fall of Minneapolis documentary is coming out now because the intersectional coalition that is being exposed by these pro Hamas demonstrations that will probably become riots if Israel continues its ground campaign, just shows us the poison that the academy is spewing into the world. It is a poison based on lies. It is a poison based on hatred and it is taking everything down. Our standards, our public safety, we should demand public safety. It is not some white hang up to think that you should be able to go around cities without worrying about getting pushed into subway tracks or mugged or robbed or having your car jacked when you're when you're filling your tank. These are normal expectations. And yet now we're told that it's somehow racist to expect public safety and to expect the police to protect property and protect lives. So well said. Love to see you, Heather. Thank you so much for your courage, your voice and for being here. My pleasure. Thank you so much, Megan.

What a show today was, my gosh. There's a lot to think about. Really hope you watch it and I hope you write in. You can email me, Megan, at MeganKelley.com with your thoughts on the film. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelley Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.