The Megyn Kelly Show - GOP Chances in NY and CT, Military Recruitment Issues, and REAL Top Gun Pilot, with John Ellis and Dave Berke | Ep. 416

Episode Date: October 20, 2022

Megyn Kelly is joined by John Ellis, editor of the "News Items" Substack, to talk about whether the GOP really may win in New York and Connecticut, races to watch in Washington state, Kari Lake's smarts and savvy, John Fetterman's new "medical report,"crime in America, whether the election is a referendum on Biden himself or the economy overall, and more. Then Dave Berke, a former TOPGUN pilot and Marine veteran, joins to discuss what it's like being selected as a TOPGUN student and becoming an instructor later, his most challenging battles, the danger of pilots losing consciousness and crashing, relationship with Marines like Jocko Willink, being a consultant on the new "Top Gun" movie, leadership and life lessons, how he became attracted to the military and the Marines, serious military recruitment issues in America, the "weakness" of the military, and more. Plus, MK Mailbag - reading your emails! Email Megyn at [e-mail] The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Later, we are going to bring you the incredible story of a retired Marine Corps officer and combat vet who consulted on the new Top Gun. He is the real Maverick. That's what I say. They admit he may have been an inspiration for the Tom Cruise character. He consulted on the show for a reason. This is the real guy. So we're going to talk about these dogfights in the air and what it's actually like and how you get recruited for that role and what's happening with our military, because there was testimony before Congress this week saying, and I quote,

there is an unprecedented, an unprecedented mission gap right now when it comes to our recruiting for new military members that we face the greatest recruiting challenge in 50 years. Okay, that was just last month that that hit. So why is that? Right? Why is that? We'll get into all of it. First, though, we take a dive into the midterm races. There's a lot of news to get to in Pennsylvania as John Fetterman's doctor releases a quote, medical report saying he's healthy. Take a look at Arizona and Carrie Lake's epic battle with reporters. And this is the story I've got to talk about first. Is it possible that New York state is in play for the GOP? New York, deep blue New York. John Ellis is the founder and editor of the

News Items Substack, and he has a wealth of political experience. He says there are some races we need to be watching closely that you may not be thinking about, including the Connecticut Senate race. Again, deep, deep blue. What? John Ellis, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me, Meg. So it's like even to be mentioning Connecticut Senate and New York governor. Like what? What are you? This is crazy talk. But is it?

You know, I'm doing a piece right now on Connecticut. incumbent Richard Blumenthal, who had been state attorney general forever, was elected with 55% of the vote and 600,000 votes. And that was in the first midterm of the Obama administration. He got 600,000 votes, and that was 55% of the vote. So healthy margin. He did well. So yeah. So six years later, 2016, obviously the year that President Trump was elected, he gets a million votes and gets 63 percent of the vote.

He's going in the right direction, especially considering that's a Republican wave election. That's the first time anyone statewide in Connecticut has won more than a million votes. And so you would think, gee, he's a lock for reelection. And the fact is that he's not. He's ahead, depending on which polls you believe, somewhere between five and seven points. He's suddenly all over the air in this media market, and there's a real chance that he might lose. So that tells you, I mean, what's important about Connecticut is at the end of the day, probably Blumenthal will win. But if he wins by two or four or five points, that means the

Republicans in the rest of the country are going to do very, very well. And that's the New York story as well. Yes, I want to get to New York one second. So you're saying basically if his competitor, this woman Levy, comes within two, three points of him, this is another Phil Murphy situation where he just barely held on to his seat as the New Jersey governor and really rattled Democrats. That changed, I think, the Phil Murphy near loss, really changed COVID policy across the

nation, you know, several months back when he almost lost that seat that he'd been running 30 points ahead in. Right. I mean, the one way I look at elections is what should be, right? So what should be is that Richard Blumenthal, who's won statewide for three decades, he should win by 55% or more. And the likelihood is that he will win. It's not certain that he will, but it's likely that he will win by significantly less than 55%. It might be 52%. It might be 51%. That is what should be. And if

it's not, then what it means for the rest of the country is the Republicans will do very, very well. Why is that here in Connecticut? Why is it, and this is going to be expanded in a second to New York and beyond, but why would this blue, blue state to which I recently moved be turning more red and be potentially turning against a guy like Blumenthal? Is it the same thing as it is everywhere, the economy and inflation? And are they really holding him responsible for that? I think it's larger than that. I think it's a referendum on President Biden and the Biden administration. I don't think anybody, you know, Joe Biden won by a very narrow margin in the Electoral College. He won by a very healthy margin in the popular vote. But nobody elected him to be a left or left liberal president.

They voted him because they wanted Donald Trump to go away. And they came out with, you know, this wildly ambitious agenda that they didn't really have the voters' permission to pursue. And that led to, you know, inflation, higher gas prices, food prices through the roof. And that's what's happened. I mean, it's a referendum on, I think, in the bigger picture, I think it's a referendum all across the country on Joe Biden. And that's one that the Republicans will do very, very well. Biden's approval, I'm sorry. Yeah, I was just going to say that I also think, you know, Connecticut is one of those states where, unlike the Upper West Side of Manhattan, where I moved from, they're not hardcore social liberals gender in the classroom. They don't want everything reduced to people's skin color. They don't want the boys shamed and they don't want all white students

shamed. It's just it's not that kind of constituency. And yet that madness is starting to infect a lot of the schools out here. And I do I am convinced this has a lot of Democrats ready to pull the lever for Team Red. The other thing that's going on in Connecticut, I mean, I live in Fairfield, Connecticut, which is a fairly wealthy community. Hedge Funds, GE used to be here, Fairfield University. So it's certainly well-to-do by any standards. And the county, Fairfield County, is one of the richest counties in the United States

of America. All anybody talks about here is crime and car theft. There's a car theft epidemic in Connecticut. So I think the crime issue is one that Republicans are benefiting from, if you will, all across the country. The other thing to remember about Connecticut, by the way, is in 2010, which was a good year for the Republicans, Tom Foley, the Republican candidate for governor, came within 6,000 votes of winning the governorship that year. So it's a state that, you know, is not, it's not like Massachusetts, where, you know, it wants to vote Democratic overwhelmingly, and so Charlie Baker is there. This is a state that could elect a Republican without. Yeah. Massachusetts sometimes

elects these sort of fake Republicans as its governor. I don't know a Republican who any, you know, who could win a national race, although Mitt Romney used to be more to the right, and now we see he's, I don't know, returned to his more middle-of-the-road roots or found them a new one. He's back to being a Massachusetts governor. 100%, right? 100%.

He's enormously, by the way, he's enormously popular in Utah. He saved the Utah Olympics back in 2000. I guess it was 2001 or 2002. And then he's unbeatable. He's changed a lot. Okay, so let's talk about New York. This is exciting to me. I'm not going to lie. I can't stand Governor Kathy Hochul. I lived under her reign for too long. And, you know,

while Andrew Cuomo was a terrible guy and I was delighted to see him get booted out of office, policy-wise, he was probably slightly more reasonable than this lunatic running around with her vaxxed network. I mean, necklace. Like, she She's just she's uninspiring. She's not. We're going to talk about Carrie Lake in a minute and how everybody's gravitating toward her. She's inspiring. I would say Kathy

Hochul is the opposite of Carrie Lake in virtually every way. And incredibly, it's getting tight. I mean, are you telling me Lee Zeldin, this Republican who's been through hell this election cycle, almost got it. He got attacked. He had two people shot outside of his home while his teenagers were home. Thank God his kids were OK. But I mean, poor Lee Zeldin's really been through the ringer. But is there a chance he's going to win? Oh, there must be, because, again, if you live in the same media market that I do, all you see are attack ads on Zeldin from Volkl's campaign. So, you know, you can tell just by watching the local news and the TV ads that appear there, the political ads that appear there. She's obviously panicked. And, you know, taxes, crime, Biden, you know, so yes, she can. Yes, he can win. It's it's going to be,

you know, if he wins, it's going to be by a point or half a point. But does he have a realistic shot? Yes, he does. My God, that I mean, that would truly be a national earthquake if he unseats her. No, yeah, you go ahead. No, I think in terms of people watching the election on television on election night, there are three races that are going to tell us a lot. New Hampshire, where the Democratic senator should be a fairly comfortable winner. It looks like a race that may be closer than people think. Good news about New Hampshire is it reports fast and early. Connecticut, the polls close, I think, at 730.

They count very fast. So that'll tell us about Blumenthal and what his percentage is. And then New York counts very slow, but the exit poll, all of the networks have exit polls there. And that will tell us a lot about what's going to happen in the rest of the country. Wow. David Marcus has an opinion piece out just today, wrote for the Daily Wire saying Lee Zeldin will win in New York. And he says, like, don't forget, it was 1993 with crime surging, that New York City elected Rudy Giuliani, a Republican as its mayor. Two years later, they elected George Pataki, a Republican, as their governor. And I, you know,

that's true. You kind of forget we've had uniform Democratic rule in New York state for so long. You forget that this state, too. And George Pataki is a real Republican. And Giuliani was liberal socially, but he was a real Republican other than socially, too. So the state will do it, especially when crime is bad and crime is a mess. And it's not just a mess in places like New York City. It's bad all over the state. And by the way, I know a lot of New Yorkers, a lot of them, who are still very bitter over the COVID lockdowns and the authoritarian nature of our governor's overreaching, whether it was Cuomo or Hochul after him. Yeah. I mean, I go into the city of Fairmount and used to live there and it never occurred to me to do anything but stand as close as possible to where the doors would open so i could get on the subway and i was there two weeks ago and i stood with my back pressed up against the wall because you know it it's it's

scary what's happening in the subways and yeah that's that's sort of a metaphor for the crime issue and that works uh to zelman's uh benefit advantage i'll say one other thing same by the way same if i ever go down in the new york city subway even before now but certainly now a i wouldn't go down but b if i did i'd have my back up against that wall same they're just taking random people and shoving them onto the tracks that the post had the, the, the, a picture of this poor woman in tears. Her husband, um, had just been thrown. I mean, it's just random. Like they'll just throw any random body on the tracks. And if you don't get electrocuted by the third rail track, you get run over by the subway train. There's almost no time to get you. It's just horrific what they're doing. But I'll say this other thing in Connecticut, you mentioned the car theft epidemic. Somebody did give me a good piece of advice on this, which is obviously don't leave your keys in your car. That's hello. That's asking at the entrance to your home, because these thieves are

so bold and brazen, they'll open up your front door and just grab your keys. And that's where everybody leaves their keys. They'll walk them in and just throw them on the front hall table. Don't do that. Or at least hide them or put them in like a, I don't know, some sort of a container where it's not that obvious. Okay. Just a piece of crime advice. All right. So can we talk for a minute about Oregon? Now we're on the subject of blue states points in the late in the last election. But there is a new House district allocated because of population growth that now is being considered a toss up in Oregon. It's between Democratic state legislator Andrea Salinas and Republican businessman Mike Erickson and the Republican. Again, in a place where Biden won by 14 points. He could win. There's a couple of other races, including the governor's race in Oregon.

Oregon, that could go red. Yeah. Oregon is two states. Right. And the western part of the state is Democratic. The eastern part of the state is a conservative Republican Mormon. And what's happened, so you have that very, if you're a Republican, you have a very solid base in the eastern half of the state, roughly speaking. And then you have the issues working to Republican advantage, both in the congressional districts and in the gubernatorial campaign. And in the gubernatorial campaign, you have an independent candidate who's drawing a significant vote. So the Republican candidate doesn't have to get to 50 plus one to win. And so a lot of people I know think that the Republican candidate there will win the gubernatorial race. Wow. What else are you watching? What are the interesting races to sort of watch as bellwethers?

I've liked Tiffany Smiley from, you know, the first time I read about her, I followed her on YouTube and stuff. She's running, she's a Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate in Washington state. She's running against Patty Murray, who famously ran a campaign, I think three terms ago, as the woman in tennis sneakers, tennis shoes. And that sort of became her brand, if you will, and she did well. She's, by any sort of, if you talk to people in the state of Washington, they say she's sort of stayed too long. And for some reason, the Republican Senatorial Committee and the Republican Party and major donors have not supported Smiley's campaign, choosing to invest in other places. She sounds so nice. Smiley. How do you not get behind Smiley? Well, she's terrifically attractive, and she's determined. Her husband was blinded by an IED in the Iraq War, and the army said he couldn't serve as an officer,

and she fought the army, and he is now serving as an officer. She is she's formidable. She's attractive. And, you know, I think if there is this huge wave, then I think she will she will surprise a lot of people. The other one that I think is is nationally important is Carrie Lake's campaign in Arizona. The Democratic candidate for governor there may be the stupidest person on the planet. Why? Well, there was a debate to be set up between her and Carrie Lake. And she said that she wouldn't debate Carrie Lake. And by, you know, the result of that was basically,

okay, well, then you lose the race. So Carrie Lake is going to win in Arizona. And, you know, the Republican Party hasn't had a kind of superstar female, I don't know, candidate elected official since really since Sarah Palin went national in 2012. And Carrie Lake is the next big thing. I mean, she's the moment the moment the moment that she wins the Arizona gubernatorial race, she will be the frontrunner to be the vice presidential nominee in 2024. That's amazing. Yeah, it is amazing. I'm amazed that she hasn't gotten that kind of coverage.

The only coverage I've seen that really sort of explains why she's so attractive or significant or whatever the right word is, was by Ruby Kramer in the Washington Post. I saw that. This is a formidable political force coming at us. And when she's elected, which i'm certain she will be um all eyes will turn to her can i say something about carrie lake and with all due respect to sarah palin carrie lake is is in a different league um oh yeah i don't know very smart very savvy she can talk about any issue she's not going to have have a Katie Couric moment like Sarah Palin did.

It's not possible. She's too smart and she's too savvy. Like she would see that coming a mile away. And, you know, case in point, what she's done with the election denialism. We talked about it on our show yesterday. This charge of election denialism, election denialism. Everybody keeps throwing this at her because she's, you know, in the Republican Party, there are most, the majority of Republicans believe that the last election was totally unfair. And, you know, Mark Zuckerberg's money to try to tip the scales and the burying of the Hunter Biden report by Twitter and social media. I mean, you could go down the list,

not to mention the changing of the rules in places like Pennsylvania to make never ending voting. And then what was the process overseeing all that? But then there's a smaller contingent that's the hardcore MAGA faithful that believes it was actually stolen, stolen ballots, funny business at the actual polling stations and so on. Carrie Lake's in the latter category. She's her view of the election sounds pretty much the same as President Trump's, which is controversial. OK, so she gets asked by every reporter about it. She came on my show. I asked her about it. She handled it fine. But now she's found her footing and she's turning it. And it's so effective what she's doing. Here's a bit that went totally viral. I have to say I enjoyed it, as did I think anybody

who's not hardcore left. Watch. If you're going to start throwing around terms like election denier, let's remember who the other election deniers were, Hillary Clinton and all the Democrats. You know, I did a little actually, Anthony, Anthony, how old are you? 20. Are you a journalist? No. Well, you did better research than half these people. Let's talk about election deniers. Here's 150 examples of Democrats denying election results. Oh, wow, look at this. This is from Joe Biden's press secretary.

Reminder, Brian Kemp stole the gubernatorial election from Georgians and Stacey Abrams. Democrats saying that, is that an election denier? Oh, look at this. Just heard Republican Ryan Costello said it would be difficult for Stacey Abrams to win because she lost her state bid, but yet she's still claiming she never lost. I mean, it goes on. It's worth watching the whole thing, John, but she will not be bullied by Katie Couric or any mainstream media figure who sits across from her. And I think you're right. I hadn't actually really been thinking about her as a national Republican figure. But you're saying as soon as she wins and she's going to win,

boom, she's the favorite for the for the number two slot on the GOP ticket. Yeah, I'm surprised that, you know, as I said, I'm surprised that that hasn't, you know, sort of emerged in the coverage. But it certainly it certainly will after Election Day. And you're saying that even if it's not Trump at the top of the ticket who she loves and he loves her, you're saying any like a DeSantis, a Tim Scott, all these guys would be nuts. Sorry, but most of the leading the guys leading in the poll are men would be nuts not to choose her. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, if you're running for president, on the Republican side, and you, you have to, you have to show at least loyalty to former President Trump. And the thing about Kerry Lake that's different from, say, Nikki Haley or other people,

is that the Trumpian base of the Republican Party, which is essentially the Republican Party, loves Carrie Lake. I mean, that's the thing that I don't understand why, but what we call the mainstream media hasn't really focused on, but that Carrie Lake is beloved by the base. And so if you're Ron DeSantis or Tom Cotton or whoever, and you're the Republican presidential nominee, you want the base fired up. And what's going to fire them up is Carrie Lake. And she's a fighter. Don't you need that? I mean, forget Kamala Harris. And to some extent, forget Mike Pence. Typically, they would pick people in the number two position who would come

out there and fight. And when John McCain's campaign was not doing that well, people weren't excited about John McCain. They respected John McCain, but they weren't excited about him. I mean, I will never forget Sarah Palin coming out at the Republican National Convention in St. Paul and bringing the house down. She, like Carrie Lake, was beautiful.

She is dynamic. She knows how to work a room. She had her colloquialisms that really people love, the lipstick on a pig and so on. And she injected such energy and excitement into that McCain campaign like we had not seen before. And Carrie Lake can do that times 10. So that's an exciting thought to think about. Honestly, I was so impressed with her when she came on the show. And at that point, she was fighting just for the nomination.

The other candidate was more favored. But she got it. And I agree with you. It looks like she's going to get the big job. Let's talk for a minute about, because I know you said there are two races that you're watching. One was Washington State. And we'll get to the second one. But before we do that, can we just spend a minute on Pennsylvania and Fetterman's doctor's note?

I have a note that says, you know, I'm in perfect health and all I need to do is gain a little weight. You just type that out for yourself this morning. That's basically what he has. It does. It reminds me of when, like, I was sick and I was, quote, sick from high school and I had to write a note. and I had to try to forge my mom's signature on the post-it note and they called her immediately. She did not back me up. he has seen, but from his primary care doctor saying he's recovering well from his stroke and his health has continued to improve. He has no work restrictions and can work full duty in public office. He says that at his appointment on Friday, very limited scope here, Fetterman spoke intelligently without cognitive deficits. His speech was normal and he

continues to exhibit symptoms of an auditory processing disorder, which can come across as hearing difficulty. But he says his hearing of sounds such as music is not affected, but occasional words he will miss, which seems like he doesn't hear the word, but it's actually not. It's not being processed properly. Now him saying, first of all, that he has no cognitive defects does not match up with what we've seen. When he went on with Chris Hayes of MSMUC, no matter how he heard the question, what came out of Fetterman's mouth was garbly. It was garbly gook. It didn't make any sense. That's not an auditory processing issue. That's something's going on in his own head that doesn't allow him to speak words that make sense. And we've seen

that more than once. So I don't know about this doctor's note, but I have to tell you, John, it reminded me, sorry, but any chance to go back to this wonderful doctor, Harold Bornstein, God rest his soul, he died in 2021. And his pronouncement of Trump's health, do you remember this guy? I do, yeah. Oh, here it is. Flashback, soundbite two. That letter that showed up in the Times about his health, he wrote himself. You know that.

Yeah. He wrote it himself. He was talking about how Trump wrote his own out letter. I feel like history is repeating itself. My dad had a stroke way back when, and it took him about a year to recover from it. The stroke, as I understand it, that Mr. Fetterman experiences significantly more severe than the one McGat experience. So this notion that he is fully capable of fulfilling his duties as a U.S. senator is almost certainly not true. The problem on the Republican side is that there's a spectacular statistic

about Dr. Oz, which is that 61% of Republicans regret that he's the nominee. Wow. So if, you know, if David McCormick were the nominee, this thing would be over, probably, you know,

a 10-point win for McCormick. Oz makes it close, but I think the tide will bring him in. You think the tide will bring in Fetterman? No, bring in Oz. The tide is going one way. The red tide. And what do you think is going to happen in Georgia? The the latest data that I saw suggested that the few polls done after the Herschel Walker scandal broke suggest maybe it has hurt him a little day to day. It changes. But it was suggesting that there have been, I think, three polls since the news broke of his children who he didn't take care of uh reportedly and he

had a um he allegedly paid for an ex-girlfriend's abortion and this is according to 538 dated 1018 saying uh we have new polling data suggesting the abortion story may have cost walker some support trafalgar who is you know they're they're good at gauging republican feelings quinnipiac, Emerson, College, and Insider Advantage have all polled Georgia since the abortion story broke. Those surveys showed Raphael Warnock leading on average 48 to 45 percent, pointing out that previously those same pollsters' most recent surveys before the news broke had them essentially tied at 47% each. We had on RealClearPolitics, Tom Bevin. RealClearPolitics is projecting Republicans take the Senate,

including in Georgia. They're projecting a Herschel Walker win here, which is one of the ways that they're going to do it, according to Tom Bevin, here in Nevada. And I wonder what you think about that assessment, that the polls show Herschel was hurt and that the momentum, at least according to these polls right now, is with Warnock, despite know, two, three percent of the vote. So it's likely, I think, that it will go to a runoff in December. So it'll be taken out of the context of this kind of red wave that we expect. What that means, you know, Herschel

Walker's chances in December, I don't know, but I don't think the race will be decided on election night. The second thing to remember, and this is, you have to remember this when you're looking at American politics, is that very conservative voters don't talk to pollsters. They just don't. And they are mainly rural and exurban. They don't want any part of it. So when you see a poll that says the Democrat is ahead 48 to 44, that probably undercounts Republican support, depending on the state. But if we say, for instance, Georgia, you would say 48-44 is probably a tie. I also maintain that most women, when called in the wake of a scandal like Herschel Walker's, asked by some random pollster, do you care about the fact that Herschel Walker fathered a bunch of kids that he didn't actually parent and then may have paid for his ex's abortion and then denied it. Most women, I think, on the Republican side would say, yes, I care. I care. It doesn't mean they're not going to vote

for him. What they tell the pollster bothers them may or may not be true. And it may or may not dictate what actually happens in that polling box when it's just between them, their candidate and their God. Before I let you go, last point, I know you'd been you raised a question about the Iowa Senate race with Chuck Grassley. Is he in danger? You know, the best pollster probably in the country is a woman named Ann Seltzer, who does the Des Moines Register poll. And she has an uncanny knack of producing the right numbers and her most recent poll from the register showed essentially a tie. Again, you know, margin of error sort of thing. What would undo Senator Grassley is the fact that he's been there for as long as he's been there. I think he's 88 years old now. He served seven terms.

And, you know, it's sort of like a gold watch ceremony. It may be time to retire him. I don't think it's an issues race if he loses so much as it is. Enough is enough. You should step aside. That would be huge because the Republicans need to hold all of their seats and gain at least one. They can't

afford to be losing Iowa if they're not running strong in places like Pennsylvania and Georgia and Nevada and elsewhere. John Ellis, such a pleasure. Would you please come back? I'd come back anytime. Thank you very much for having me. Great to talk to you. Coming up next, a former Top Gun pilot, the Top Gun pilot.

This is the guy Tom Cruise wants to be with a story and a personal background that you are going to want to hear. Stay tuned. Our next guest is a retired Marine Corps officer and combat vet. And he has an incredible story and one that parallels the film Top Gun Maverick, except Dave Burke is the real Maverick. He was Pete Maverick Mitchell in real life. After graduating from the Marine Corps, he was selected to attend the U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School, better known as Top Gun. He went on to become a Top Gun instructor and Top Gun senior instructor, joining an elite class of the military. His skills and experience

in aviation are unparalleled, and he now shares his lessons in leadership and life with others as chief development officer at Echelon Front. Dave, welcome to the show and thank you for your service. Thank you for having me. It's awesome to be here. Oh, welcome to the show and thank you for your service. Thank you for having me. It's awesome to be here. Oh my God, the pleasure is all mine. This is so cool. So, all right, take us back. Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Southern California in a town called El Toro, which happened to be right next to a now closed Marine base called Marine Corps Air Station El Toro. Okay. And what year were you born? Born in 72.

So you can do some math. Yeah. Okay. I got you. Because I was born in 70s. Yeah. So now you're 49. Yeah.

So that means you were young teens when Top Gun came out. Yeah. I was 14 years old. I grew up near a fighter base. I was interested in airplanes because they were literally flying over my head as a kid. My entire childhood was underneath airplanes. And then when the movie came out, I was 14 years old. I kind of sealed the deal on what I thought I wanted to do. It did it. Okay. So you like have an active memory of seeing Tom Cruise and Tom Skerritt. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. A hundred percent.

Because really you not only became Tom Cruise, but you became Tom Skerritt. I got to do some pretty cool things that I did see in the movies that I looked at and said, man, I'd love to do that. And I did end up getting to do that. So it's interesting way to describe it. But yeah, I got to live certainly my childhood dream in a lot of ways, which is very now was it the jets that lured you in or was it the beautiful women throwing themselves at Tom Cruise and Maverick in the film? Mostly the jets. How about that? But the whole package looked very interesting to me. It was super intriguing. In all seriousness, the thing that really just captivated me was watching a plane land on a boat just seemed like an out of this world thing. And as a little kid, when you

see that happening, it almost doesn't seem real. And then you go, actually, that is real. Maybe I could do that. So it's pretty cool. Oh, my God. I mean, very few have that second thought. It's real and maybe I could do it. Very few. And that's sort of your life story. You're one of the very few. That magnetism, that thing that drew you in and then drew you to the top and then got you all these special offers to be the guy. That's part of what's so interesting about you. How did that happen? What did they do? How did they cultivate leadership in you? Yeah, that's a good question. And listen, you've got to understand too that a lot of the things that happen, some of it is just really good luck, really good circumstance and really good timing. But there's obviously a blend of some other things as well. You have to be prepared.

You have to be committed. I think the best thing that happened to me as a little kid, and you asked about my parents, is my mom said something at a pretty young age that stuck with me probably around the time I saw the movie. She said something to the effect of, somebody's going to go do that. It might as well be you. And she gave me the sense that all these things that seemed larger than life and impossible to accomplish, she's like, regular people do that stuff all the time. And if you want to do it, you should go do it. And she made it much more, I guess, believable at the time. Instead of fantasizing about it, she took that fantasy and said, hey, people are going

to go do this. You should be the one to go do that. And it made it so much more attainable. And I think I was lucky that at a young age, I got that instilled in me. And it made these things a lot more believable than I initially thought they were. This is so funny. I'm just contrasting with my own mom who was like, you better take typing again, Meg. I'm like, what do you mean, ma? She goes, they don't give scholarships for cheerleading, honey. We're on different paths, Dave. Slightly different. Yes. So were you from a military family or what was the, because usually guys who sign up for

the military have somebody in their life who's their inspo. Literally none. I'm the first and only member of my, certainly not my immediate, but my extended family as well. I don't think I have any military background for anybody that I knew growing up. Obviously to me, Megan, the biggest thing was, it was just really just random that I happened to go and move to a place right next to a Marine base. Seeing those airplanes was probably the first exposure I ever had to the military.

It certainly got in my blood. But when I told my mom and my family that I wanted to join the military, that came out of left field, I think for a lot of them, because there's no military background in my family at all. Wow. All right. So now why the Marines? Well, there's another part of that too. So obviously there was a Marine base there. And I imagine it could have very easily, had I grown up next to a different type of military base, I might've gone in a different direction. but there was something unique about the Marines.

Even just the fact that they call themselves Marines was really appealing to me. And I had built it up in my head, whether it's true or not, I built it up in my head that the Marine Corps was the hardest. Now, the reality is, is all the services are difficult. They're all awesome. I got a lot of exposure to all of them. But for some reason in my brain as a kid, I put the Marines up on a pedestal and I convinced myself if I could fly for the Marines, I could do anything. So I created this thing in my head that the Marine Corps, the entrance, the bar was just a little bit higher and that's how I saw it. And so I told myself, well, if you're going to do it, you might as well do it for the Marines.

And I really got that in my head at a young age too. So probably by the time I was 14, 15 years old, I was going to be a Marine Corps fighter pilot. And that was to me kind of represented the pinnacle there. I know what you mean. I mean, that was my impression growing up too, around the same time that commercial they had was just so good. The few, the proud, the Marines. It's just like, oh my God, yes, I want that. I mean, I wanted it in a different way than you wanted it, but in any event, so you, you do it. And then what happens? Like, are you immediately a star where they're like, you're, you're going to go?

No. Okay. So what happened? No, I mean, I had some pretty humble beginnings. I remember specifically, you know, the recruiting of the Marine Corps definitely gets in your blood. They, they know what they're doing when they say the few, the proud, the Marines. They know who they're appealing to. The other side of that is there's like a very pragmatic sort of step-by-step process to make it all happen. So I'm a kid in high school thinking, okay,, what am I supposed to do? And it's like, hey, you got to go to college. You got to get a certain GPA. You got to go through these steps

in the process. And you're one of a lot of kids that have the exact same goal and the exact same objective. You're certainly not unique in that regard. Now, of course, these are some really cool kids that have a lot of the same interests as you, but you kind of put in this pool of people who have to meet all the requirements and all the high standards that Marine Corps has to become an officer and then eventually a pilot. So I just got on the path. And by my freshman year in college, I was doing all the pragmatic, deliberate things that aren't all that exciting that you have to do in order to eventually become a Marine officer. And so I really didn't have any other interests. I was fully committed to that. And that's what I did.

So wait, so you go to, as I understand, Cal State Fullerton while working full time at Target to pay your way through college. Respect. Seriously, respect. Good for you. You've done your homework. This is all true. Well, my God, my team is amazing.

And then Officer Candidate School comes after. Like, where do you go to marine training? You know, like you go to college and then what? Totally. It's a good question. It's actually happening in parallel. So yeah, I grew up in Orange County in the town of El Toro. I was going to El Toro High School. I decided I wanted to be a Marine. You have to get a college degree. So I took out my map, found the closest school that I could get to because at that time, college was just a path to getting in the Marine Corps. The nearest university was Cal State Fullerton. Parents didn't have any money for school. So I went to school Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I worked Tuesday, Thursday, Friday,

Saturday, Sunday, and got on the path to getting my degree in four years. In between that, after your freshman year and your junior of college, you have to go to something called Marine Corps Officer Candidate School. And that's out in the East Coast in a place called Quantico, Virginia, which is, I think they call it the crossroads of the Marine Corps, because every single Marine officer has to go through this Officer Candidate School program in Quantico. And I did that in my two of the summers in between my freshman and sophomore year, and my junior and senior year. I was able to complete both of those, fortunately. So the day I graduated, I was commissioned as a Marine, having completed that officer candidate school program, which is a total of, I think, 12 weeks that I did during college. This is crazy, just like for the audience,

because they know what's going to come is, you know, this character Maverick is basically based on you and what you do. So this guy back then is going to officer candidate school and then going home and working at the Target. Were you like the greatest target worker ever? Were you like, keep a straight line for the love of God? Yeah, I don't think I was the world's greatest employee, but I will say this. Like I was fortunate enough to know that getting into the Marine Corps, being an officer, wasn't going to be easy. And I had, I kept my nose clean. There's certainly, I look back, I probably could have had a little more fun, but I was really on the path and didn't have a lot of distractions.

So I would say as I think about my time, even at school and even at a place like Target, that was a path to get me to where I wanted to go. So I did school well. I did my job well. I was not a superstar in any of those things, but I knew that I needed to do those things correctly and effectively and well to get me where I wanted to go. So I was a decent employee. I was a decent student. I certainly did well enough to get through the officer candidate school program. But all of that in my mind was, if I can't get this right, there's no way I'm going to get to do the things that I wanted to do. So I guess I did a fairly decent job of all of them because I knew they were the path to getting

me to where I wanted to be. Oh my God. The other employers were probably like, he's so annoying. Who can compete against this? All right. Stand by, Dave, because I love your story. We're going to get to much, much more of it in just a bit. Squeezing a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to do our first Megyn Kelly mailbag, BMK mailbag. We've been writing in and we want to respond to a couple of the emails that all of you have been so kind as to send in with your thoughts and questions and so on. And don't forget, folks, that you can find the Megyn Kelly show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 111 every weekday at noon east and the full video showing clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Megan Kelly. If you prefer an audio podcast,

follow, download on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to check out that YouTube right now because that little bit we did yesterday morning on Megan Markle is getting quite a few thoughts. Go ahead and check it out. It's 12 minutes long. I think you'll enjoy it. We'll be right back. We're going to get back to our guest in one minute, but first, I want to tell you this and bring you something else. Tomorrow, the latest edition of the American News Minute comes out. It is all the news you need to know in 60 seconds or less, I promise. Plus a personal message from me. Yes, I read them myself.

And oh, the latest trouble my Strudwick got into. He has had a banner week. OK, a banner week. I tweeted out a photo last night. That was just the latest. OK, wait until you read the Strudwick saga in tomorrow's American News Minute. You can skip it and just go to the news if you want. Or you could just be there for Strudwick saga in tomorrow's American News Minute. You can skip it and just go to the news if you want, or you could just be there for Strudwick if that's your jam.

Sign up now at Megan Kelly dot com. M.E.G.Y.N. Kelly dot com. And you can also email me, by the way, at Megan M.E.G.Y.N. at Megan Kelly dot com. I can take emails there. And we've gotten so many great ones that we've created this new show, this new segment of the show, MK Mailbag, the MK Mailbag. So I'll read a few every week. Here's just a couple just to just to kick it off. I'm going to start with some that we just got over yesterday's episode. This is from Jennifer, who writes in Megan Markle is a narcissist of the highest order. Honestly, I think she's suffering from the same borderline personality issues that Amber Heard displayed during her court case against Johnny Depp. That's a fascinating thought, and I think you're probably right. I think she truly believes the shit she's making up in her head. She really does believe she's a victim, even though the rest of us look at her and think she's nothing but a liar. Keep getting after her. She deserves to have a spotlight on her to highlight exactly what's wrong with our society today, because she's the embodiment of grievance

being used as social currency. Yes. And then she goes on to say on a much better note i was hysterical crying listening to you and mike rowe talk about poop yes yes me too um here's one from lisa who writes in i'm right now i'm not using people's last names i'm just not sure if you don't want me to use your name i want to spare you your full name unless you want to say, feel free to use my name. I laughed all the way home listening to your Markle monologue. And then another favorite, Mike Rowe. I teach at a college. I love his support of our students. Keep us laughing. We need it. Okay, here's another one. Hold on. Kevin writes in, to Markle is to be a royal pain in the ass. Thanks for all the great shows. Listening to Yesterday's with Mike Rowe and have laughed out loud several times and I'm only halfway through.

A similar one from Debra who writes, we're stuck in traffic on Route 1 in North Carolina and rolling in laughter makes us so glad we got stuck or we might have missed your show. Thank you, thank you, it was a funny one yesterday. Here's one on another front that's near and dear to my own heart. Andrew wrote in about episode 393 in our coverage of Blake Barklage. Oh, sweet Blake. He writes, I just wanted to commend you regarding the story on Blake Barklage in episode 393. It was very well done with an incredibly appropriate tone, tenor, and candor. Having lost a child, it was comforting to hear a story like

this told in the manner you did. Not many in the media are willing to handle this subject at all, and when it's handled, it's often handled in a manner that's condescending or insulting. Good on you for embracing the subject in the manner you have. It's probably a small subset of the population that's affected by these stories, but at least for me, as someone who's been touched in a similar fashion, I do appreciate the manner in which you handled such a difficult and delicate subject. Thank you from Andrew. That was a team effort, Andrew. So thank you for saying that. And everyone who worked on that piece put their heart and soul into it. Finally, Lee writes in, who's your Mount Rushmore of journalists working today? We can agree on Glenn Greenwald and Cheryl Atkinson, but who else?

I mean, come on, you already named some of the greats. Matt Taibbi. It's a really short list after that. And even having thought about it, I'm going to get back to you real soon. When we come back, more with Dave Burke. All right, Dave. So you're on your way toward becoming a little bit. Interestingly, when I got into the Marine Corps, I was telling you, I went to that officer,

selection officer. I was actually initially enrolled as a ground officer. So I went to the basic training, I became an officer, and then I had to go through the school where they assign you a job. We call it an MOS. You could be like an infantry officer or an artillery officer or a pilot. And when I found out, when I got there, there was going to be two people from my class of 250 that got this slot. My dreams of Top Gun were really at the forefront. I just wanted to get selected for aviation. So I was lucky enough at the end of that class. I got that second pilot slot.

And then I was asked, yeah, what would be the difference between aviation and Top Gun? Like, what would you be doing if you just went aviation versus Top Gun? Yeah. So Top Gun is kind of a very narrow segment of a particular type of platform that you fly. So I wasn't even guaranteed that I was going to fly at all. I was very lucky to get a spot where I just got to go to flight school. Then I get down to flight school and flight school had different phases.

The first phase was called primary, where they selected whether you're going to fly jets, like you'd do a top gun, propeller aircraft, like cargo planes, like a C-130 or helicopters. So even getting to fly airplanes and then which particular airplane, that was all unknown as I was rising up in my initial couple of years in flight training. I was lucky enough, I got a pilot slot. I was lucky enough to get a jet slot. And then I completed jet training after about a year and a half.. I was lucky enough. I got a pilot slot. I was lucky enough to get a jet slot. And then I completed jet training after about a year and a half. And I was selected for an airplane called the F-18. And that's the only plane at the time that had a pathway to getting to Top Gun. But being a student at Top Gun, there was a lot of things I had to do well before then,

get an aviation spot, get through flight school, get jets, get into the F-18. And then I could start to really think about what that path looked like to getting in there. So that was several years after, I think I got commissioned in 1994. I started flight school in 1995. I didn't go to Top Gun until 2001. So a lot of time, a lot of training, a lot of things predated the opportunity to be a student at Top Gun. Why do they make it so hard? What's going to be so elite and special about your missions as a Top Gun graduate versus everything else? Yeah, the biggest thing about Top Gun and why that is considered to be such a unique and elite group of people is their obligation isn't just to be good at flying. The pilots in the military are

all magnificent. The obligation you have at Top Gun is you have to be the trainer and the teacher of all the other pilots going through that program who are going to then lead their squads and lead the other pilots to war. So it isn't just that you need to be a good pilot, you have to be a good instructor. And in fact, you have to be a better instructor than you are a pilot. And it's one thing, you probably know this, it's one thing to be able to do something, to be able to teach it as something very different. So the criteria for getting to Top Gun and then certainly the criteria for coming back is based on more than just your ability to fly the airplane. And so that's a pretty, they make it a very high entrance bar because the obligation for you to teach other people to go to war is super, super critical. So if you matched up a Top Gun instructor against a student who's, you know, these are elite students, as you just outlined, even to be at Top Gun, is there any way the student could beat the teacher? There's no chance. It's not even close. And this isn't because the Top Gun instructors are like better human beings. It's simply just that their experience, the amount

of repetitions they had, but unlike what you see in the movie, when the students show up to Top Gun, their thought isn't that I'm going to beat the instructor. Their thought is I'm going to learn everything I can from the instructor because the disparity in performance and capability at that time, it's massive. So students don't go to Top Gun with any hope of, of beating their instructors in training. They go there with the hope of learning what they can. So, and when you're a student, you understand that. There's no real ego involved about, I'm going to beat this instructor. You want to just go there and learn.

So when you got selected, because you did wind up being one of the top two, and so you got selected to go to Top Gun, what was that like? I mean, it's like winning the lottery. It's like finding out you've won the presidency. What did that feel like for you? I don't think it's quite that level of excitement. There is a sense when I was told by my squadron commander that I was going to Top Gun, of course, I was elated. I mean, that really was in that sense, kind of a culmination of my childhood dream. So it was a huge deal. But on top of that, there's this massive burden, this sense of obligation and this sense of responsibility. So you certainly, I remember going home being pretty excited. I remember telling my friends and my family, hey, I'm getting to go to Top Gun as a student, which was awesome. But you also know that there's a ton of

work that goes involved in that. And then there's an expectation too, from that commander who sent you there, hey, you got to come back and be an instructor for the squadron. You have to prepare us to go to war. So there's a blend of elation for sure, but also this massive amount of responsibility. So I remember feeling both heavily. So you went to Top Gun, as I understand it, summer of 2001. Yeah, I was in the last graduating class of Top Gun, the last group of students to graduate before September 11th.

So I graduated in July of 2001. And our class is the last class to have graduated before 9-11. Oh my gosh. So where were you? What were you doing on September 11th? I was literally dressing, putting my boots on. I was getting dressed. It was probably five something in the morning, West Coast time. I had a habit, I think in the morning, I'd get up, I'd exercise, I'd get my flight suit, my boots on, and I'd flip on the TV to kind of see what's going on. So it was probably, you know, five something in the morning, I'm literally lacing up my boots, and I'm watching what's going on. And I'm realizing I got to get to work. I was

stationed at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar, you know, right, right there in San Diego. So I drove into work that morning, knowing that everything, everything had Diego. So I drove into work that morning knowing that everything, everything had changed. And I can certainly remember that very vividly as I'm driving to work that morning, knowing that the world had changed dramatically. My God. I mean, the training means so much more suddenly. This isn't just a drill. You are going to have to put this into use and soon. Megan, that's such a good point. It's such a great way to say it. When I went to Topkin as a student, it was a peacetime military. And not that we didn't understand that we were training for all

we did, but it's a little bit ethereal until something like that happens. And I knew that morning as I'm driving to work, we're going to war. I didn't know exactly how and when, but there was no question in my mind. And the way you described it is exactly right. That's exactly what I was feeling was all this training. This isn't for fun. This is for the real world. And now the world is going to expect us to go to war and take all that training and put it to good use. And that's, I mean, that's exactly what happened. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is you went, you, you became a top gun instructor from oh two to oh five. So before they sent you over, cause they did send you over, uh, to fight. Um, they, they wanted you to get some other guys

trained to go help us fight because they, they recognized the dearth of qualified pilot pilots. We had to fly these jets. Yeah. So obviously 9-11 was a big deal. I was back in my squadron after graduating from Top Gun. We went within six weeks, I think we're on a carrier steaming to the North Arabian Gulf flying combat missions. While I'm flying combat missions in Afghanistan, which was the kickoff, late 2001, early 2002. While I'm there, I get an email from the commanding officer of Top Gun saying, when you're done with this combat deployment to Afghanistan, we want you to come back. We want you to be a Top Gun instructor. So I knew while I was flying combat missions in Afghanistan, that when that was over, I was going to come back from

that deployment, which ended up being seven or so months. And I was going to go up to be an instructor at Top Gun. It's already in 2002, just like- I understand you're in the middle of fighting a war and there's a lot bigger stakes, but there had to be a moment of like, holy crap, I'm going to instruct a top gun? Yeah. Another great way to describe it. That's about how I felt was, holy crap, this is going to happen. And it's like you described. There's this blend of massive responsibility, massive obligation, huge amount of pressure and this sense of needing to deliver on all that training. And then the sense of, I was a fortunate old kid. I watched this movie about a guy who flew airplanes and got to be a top instructor. And that's exactly what's going to happen to me. So there was an absolute combination of all those different feelings. More than anything, it's a profession and you feel this professional

obligation. I was super excited to go, but more than anything, I wanted to go and do a good job. And that's what I remember feeling more than anything. You mentioned the F-18. What was the other main jet? So I flew a few different jets. I was very lucky when as soon as I got up to Top Gun as an instructor, they just started training Top Gun instructors on the F-16, which is at the time the Air Force's primary jet or one of their primary jets.

So as soon as I got to Top Gun, I got what's called a dual qualified. So I was qualified in two different airplanes at the same time, the Navy Marine Corps F-18 and the Air Force's F-16, which the Navy just started flying at the Top Gun. So I spent three years there flying both of those jets, which was completely awesome. All right. I'm going to do my Chris Farley on SNL as a host routine. Was it scary? What was that like? Yeah, I know. I remember that skit. No, it was not scary. It was like 100% the coolest thing ever. Most people, and certainly at this time, this is back early 2000s, you got assigned a platform, which our jet would call it the

platform, the F-18. It was very, very unlikely you were ever going to see the inside of another airplane. So the fact that I got to see two at the same time was kind of very unique, very, very rare at the time. And it was nothing but just a blast. I'd landed an F-18, I'd walk across the flight line, and I'd get up in an F-16 and go fly. And at the time, it was really uncommon for anybody in the military to be flying two different types of fighters, especially two awesome fighters at the same time. So no, it wasn't scary. It was completely awesome. I loved it. So give me the cocktail party description of like G-force and throwing up and what happens to your facial skin. What is it like? It's not pretty. You don't want to see any of those videos. Nine Gs. One of the cool things, I flew the F-18. That was an airplane that pulled seven to eight

Gs. Eight Gs is kind of the magic number. Then you start flying the F-16. That thing pulls nine Gs. And just the quick explanation is all the Gs is a force of gravity. And so I was at the time, if I had all my flight gear on, I weighed about 200 pounds. And if you're flying around at one G, you feel like you weigh 200 pounds. You fly around at nine Gs, you feel like you weigh 1800 pounds. So yeah, the skin on your face, all the pressure in your body, it can be really hard just to stay awake sometimes. So we have this training on how

to manage those Gs. It doesn't look good or sound good, but it's a really important skill to have. And obviously, managing those Gs is a big deal. I never really got sick in an airplane. Maybe in my first flight or two at the very beginning, I got a little nauseous, but I was fortunate enough to really enjoy being in the cockpit. And I loved flying under high G. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of pressure, but you learn how to deal with it. And most pilots learn that skill pretty early in their fighter career. So more than anything, I've seen those videos of people falling asleep immediately. It's like they pass out. Why? Why do you pass out? You pass out because all the blood in your head under the force of gravity,

all the blood leaves your brain and you literally, you literally fall asleep and pass out? You pass out because all the blood in your head under the force of gravity, all the blood leaves your brain and you literally fall asleep and pass out. And so the technique that we learn is how to squeeze your muscles to make sure the blood stays in your head because most of the blood's out of your head. You literally pass out. That's possible? Like if you're feeling lightheaded even in civilian life, you could squeeze your muscles in a way that would keep the blood up there?

I think there's a little bit different there in terms of why some people pass out. But if the reason you're passing out is that the blood is leaving your head under the force of gravity, you can squeeze your muscles and fight gravity and keep that blood inside your brain. And that's a technique we learned.

What is to prevent, because you get a co-pilot, right? Nope, I flew by myself. I was a single seat pilot. I always flew alone. Well, what happens if you pass out? What if the technique doesn't work? It's not good. You got to stay awake. And in fact, Megan, you're doing a very good job of highlighting very legitimate concerns. We call it G-lock, G-induced loss of consciousness. We have

sadly crashed a lot of airplanes that are perfectly flyable jets with pilots who have unfortunately not maintained their consciousness. In fact, we've developed software that I was lucky to participate in that development to have a plane recognized when the pilot has passed out and is not flying to recover itself so you don't fly into the ground. But sadly, back then, it was unfortunately not the most uncommon thing for a pilot to lose consciousness and crash that happened. You know, not all the time, but it happened routinely. It was very, it's very sad. I'm curious if the pilot has a if the plane has a pilot who's passed out, and we're trying to get

him back. Does the does the plane need to go lower in terms of altitude? Or does it just need to go slower to bring you know, the blood flow back? It's not necessarily how high you are. When you slow down or really stop accelerating and stop maneuvering, the blood can come back pretty quickly. The problem is it takes a little bit of time for when you wake up from passing out to understand what's going on. And planes are flying so fast and pointed to the ground going so quickly that sometimes that can be unrecoverable and planes crash doing that. And it's, it's awful. It's an awful thing. Would there be a situation where you can see the guy and you know, you just got to say like,

all you need to do is hit eject, just hit eject. You got to get out. Yeah. You know, even in the most recent Top Gun movie, there's the scene where there's a pilot that has G-lock and it's, it's one of the scenes in there. There, unfortunately, there's very little you can do. You can try to talk to them a little bit, but a pilot who is having a G-Lock. And it's one of the scenes in there. Unfortunately, there's very little you can do. You can try to talk to them a little bit, but a pilot who is having a G-Lock episode where they've passed out, there's very little you can do in another airplane to help that person recover. There needs to be an eject thing controlled by a friendly plane. Well, what they've developed is some technology in the airplane that goes, hey, this pilot hasn't done anything. We're flying towards the ground.

It does some very quick math. And if I keep going at this speed, this altitude and this angle, we're going to hit the ground. So the jet will take over flying the airplane and recover the jet in hopes that the pilot that regains consciousness. So that technology is out there. It's awesome. And I've worked on that technology and it has saved airplanes and saved lives. It's really cool.

Oh, thank God. Thank God. I was going to say, even in my car, like if I turn to the right lane without signaling, it'll make me stay. You know, like technology is so advanced now. I imagine our F-16s and our F-18s with guys like you, we're doing everything we can to save you, yes,

and the very expensive equipment as well. Yeah, that technology is out there. It's called Auto GCAS, and it's designed to keep you from crashing when you pass out. It's amazing. Wow. Okay, so you spend three years there training fighter pilots to go off and do what you do. And then you get deployed to Ramadi. Yes. like when you first got there, like this is, this is the real deal. I mean, there's nothing like nothing. It's deadly serious and Ramadi, especially at that timeframe. So you go over there. And as I understand it, one of your first impressions was, holy shit, we're undermanned. Like we don't, we don't have enough resources to do what I'm doing. Yeah, that's great. So I'm leaving Top Gun.

It's like 2005. I'm actually making kind of thinking I'm going to get out of the Marine Corps. But there's a part of me that has the sense of not having done everything I ever wanted to do. And so I thought, hey, I will do a tour on the ground. So I volunteered to do what's called a forward air controller. That was the person that uses radios talking to airplanes overhead. I volunteered for a couple of jobs and end up right after Top Gun going to Ramadi. I understood how crazy it was. And Ramadi at the time in 2006 was literally the most dangerous city in the world. But I don't think I fully understood what I was getting myself into. And when I got there, what I realized is that I had a team of three guys with three sub teams,

about four or five people each. I had about 13 or 14 of us that could break into three or four man teams. And I wish I had 10 times as many because they really, really, especially in Ramadi, we needed as much help as we could get. So instead of me sitting in some sort of air conditioned command center, I realized I had to get out into the field and start operating as an air controller, working for the Marines, the soldiers, and as you probably know, the SEALs that were there in Ramadi at the time. It's so heartbreaking. You know, I've done some of my favorite interviews are with like Marcus Luttrell, Dakota Meyer, and Marcus's story, you know, lone survivor of how

like they couldn't get the air support. And, you know, they were left there. It's not because his fellow, you know, Marines and so on didn't want to help. It's just we didn't have all the resources that we needed in a lot of places over there. You can only be one guy and we only had so many aircraft and that's impossible for a guy like you who's in the decision making role. Yeah, it was certainly a tough situation. And obviously those two men you talked, those are heroes and what they endured. I've never had to be in a position as dire as what they were able to endure. But I certainly found myself in Ramadi working alongside of Jocko

Willink and his, his seals there being exposed to things that I had never seen before. And as you can imagine, given my career flying airplanes, it was by far the most violent, the most hectic, and the most significant thing I ever did in my career was that year on the ground and that deployment I did in Ramadi. Compare the feeling you had at Top Gun, flying those jets, feeling like a badass, I'm sure, like you're the man, to the feeling you had over in Ramadi when you realized it's real, I don't have what I need, and actual lives are at stake. Yeah, it's a very interesting thing. You can't not enjoy being at Top Gun. It is the coolest job in the world. I loved every second of it. It's a huge responsibility. It's a very tough job. But as you described, it's in a training environment. It's relatively safe. You have that certain sense of obligation and burden, but the environment is one that you can really enjoy and thrive in. Ramadi is the exact opposite. Ramadi was the most violent war zone in the world. And I was on the ground.

And the firefights that I had seen in the past from the cockpit of an airplane, even when I was over Iraq and Afghanistan, now they're happening to me in person and on a perspective that I'd never seen before. What I found, though, was the attributes and the leadership skills that I was fortunate enough to develop teaching at Top Gun and elsewhere, they were the same skills that I was going to need to leverage to be successful with my Marines and the SEALs on the ground in Romani. So in some sense, despite how chaotic and violent that environment was, I had a sense that very quickly, I knew I was capable of being successful there if I followed the leadership principles that I had learned that made me successful up

to that point, which is exactly what I did. Oh, wow. I mean, God bless the US military, because this is what they do. This is what they've been doing for decades now. You get to the point where loss becomes real and somewhat personal for you over there. And I got to imagine there's a moment for every soldier where it all comes home. Like it's, it's not a, as I said earlier, it's not a drill and it's not an exercise and it's not something that you just control from afar. Someone you really love or care about dies.

And yeah, you know, you're in a, you're in a foreign role. You know, you're not a civilian back at home where somebody dies of cancer or somebody dies in a car accident. It's got a totally different connotation about it because it's somebody you're,

you're fighting with and you're, maybe you're supposed to protect him and he's supposed to protect you. It's got so many other layers to it. So take us to that moment. I understand for you it was in June 2006. Yeah, June 20th. And Megan, you're doing such a great job of articulating those feelings that I was having. And I imagine that for those of us that have experienced that up close and personal, I think you're describing extremely well. Listen, I had certainly known

that there was loss. I had people that I grew up in training with that crashed in airplanes, and you cannot escape that in the military. It's a sad, unfortunate reality. Combat is different. And when on June 20th, a Marine that was on my team had a small 13 man team. So you can imagine we get to know each other really, really well. And a young Marine named Chris Leon, who was my radio operator, someone I saw literally every single moment, every single day on June 20th, 2006, he was killed in Ramadi. And what happened was exactly what you described, Megan, was there's a sense of it being more real than anything else. And I don't want to diminish or marginalize all the other loss. And as you can imagine, while we were in Ramadi,

the army unit they were supporting had nearly 500 wounded and nearly 100 killed. And I was there for 61 of the killed in action from an army unit happened during the six months that I was there. But when it happens to someone that is on your team and is so personally close to you, it is different. It strikes in a way that is really hard to articulate, to be quite frank. I don't think I was fully prepared for it, although I understood it was a potential reality. But when Chris was killed, that hit closer and hurt more than anything that has ever happened in my career. And that is a day that, as you can imagine, I will never forget that. I'll never forget Chris, and I'll never forget the fact that I was there to experience something like that. And that was a hard day, for sure.

In September of 2006, you were sent back home. And by this point, you are married, right? You've married Whitney by this point? Yes, I got married. So I met my future wife, then girlfriend. I had just become a Top Gun instructor. And she's like, oh, this is cool. This guy flies airplanes. And I was driving a Corvette.

Life was pretty sweet at the time. She's your Kelly McGillis. So we met, we got married right before I left Top Gun. So we spent most of our time together, dating, engaged, married at Top Gun. I say, hey, guess what? I think I'll stay in the Marine Corps and I'll be a forward air controller and I go to Iraq. And then I spend the next 19 of the next 27 months deployed. So I go to Iraq while we were newlyweds and I'm deployed for that. And she got to see the other side of the real military and the real Marine Corps. So when I came home from that deployment, I'd already been married, but I was gone basically all, you know, only but a few months of our marriage. She was with me though. So it was a trial by fire for her as well.

Yeah. Not exactly how she envisioned the honeymoon period going though. Of course, every military spouse assumes that risk and understands it fully. So you're, you're pretty open about how, when you came back, cause you know, you don't think about it this way, but every day over there is sort of a day of damage to you, to like your psyche potentially. And I, I realize you're trained to handle it. And there's a certain mentality that can go into it and become an officer. I've interviewed Jocko, crazy. So what a guy, he's so many life lessons for all of us in Jocko Willings. But you're still human. So you come back and your own humanity is right there staring you in the face and you realize,

maybe I'm not totally invincible? Yeah. Again, I think you described it really well. Every day, there has the potential to be corrosive. And there are things that are going on around you that are awful. You see the worst in humanity. You see the worst in mankind. You see the worst that human beings are capable of. And you have to live and function. And actually, you have to thrive in that environment. You have to be more than just a survivor in combat. You have to lead your team. You have to make sure they are successful. You do your best to bring them all home. So you have to work to thrive in that environment. So for me, obviously, June 20th was an awful day, but that marked kind of the halfway point of my deployment. So I had to keep doing the things that I was doing to make sure the rest of my Marines came home.

It wasn't until I got back September, October of 06, when that deployment was behind me, and now I'm back to my wife, I'm back to San Diego, I'm back to flying airplanes, where I had to take stock and reconcile what had really gone on and learn exactly what you just described. I was not invincible. The people around me weren't invincible. And I was going to have to learn to manage that corrosive experience. And what I was going to do with my life in the future was going to be highly dependent on how well I handled the aftermath of that, that brutal deployment. Yes. It's like we, we stimulate every ounce of testosterone in you guys. And we send you over

there where people really are shooting at you and people are dying around you and ask you to to pull out like every piece of strength and resolve and courage that you have inside of you. And then like within days, you're back living civilian life where you're supposed to be polite and put your napkin on your lap and follow sort of the... It's such a challenge. I was struck by the story of you and your wife walking on the beach that one time because you don't snap out of it. You don't snap out of your military mindset. So tell us what happened and how it was like an aha moment for you. Yeah, your crew did an incredibly good job. You got a lot of those details. We do our homework. Yeah, you did. I think that story that you're talking about, Megan, was a moment where I was back from deployment. It was shortly after I got back, I was taking a walk with my wife.

It's just the two of us. I remember we were holding hands. I think we were crossing the street or something. Anyway, across the road was an auto body shop and those air guns that they use to take the tires off a car, make that kind of like that ratchety loud sound. Anyway, that sound went off and I literally grabbed my wife and kind of threw her to the ground to kind of get on top of her and to cover her. I realized like halfway through what I was doing, like I needed to stop doing it. It was just a reaction. It happened very, very quickly. But the feeling that I felt more than anything was just embarrassment. I was embarrassed at how quickly I reacted. And then when I say threw her to the ground, I felt more than anything was just embarrassment. I was embarrassed at how quickly I reacted.

And then when I say threw her to the ground, I was bringing her to the ground to kind of protect her as if there was something that she was exposed to. And that was a moment where I'm like, all right, you're going to have to rethink how you deal with this. I can't be going around throwing my life to the ground. And I have to learn how to react to these, um, these stimulus, you know, around me that bring back a particular sensation. That was kind of a low point for me more than anything. I was, I was embarrassed that I did it. And then I had to kind of realize, all right, let's,

let's think through how I can take ownership of this and how I can solve this. And I've got to be a functional, capable person moving forward. I can't live my life like this. That's certainly represented rock bottom for me. Uh, it's a story she could certainly tell you as well. I'm sure her perspective is a little different, which is what is going on. But yeah, that was a rough day. Well, there's a piece of it that's kind of sexy. I'm not going to lie. Even when my husband Doug puts his arm across me, when the car is stopping short, it's like I feel a bond. I understood this was coming from a damaged place, but what you did for her was also coming from a loving, protective, courageous male partner place, which I adore. And I'm sure she understood that as well. So you did find a path forward.

You now have three children. How old are your kids right now? I have a 13, 11, and a nine-year-old, three kids. We have exactly the same age children, exactly the same age. So I know what you're going through. But actually this is the honeymoon period, right? It's like the toddler ship is tough. The teenage years are tough. But like right now, I don't know about your kids, but like my kids like me and I like them. It's a miracle. We're kind of like that. I say we're batting two for three. How about that? That older one is more in the teenage years already, I'd say. Okay. I would say my 11-year-old is actually closest to that because she's a girl and she's

just advanced like all those girls are at that age more than the boys. And yeah, we have more like, I have more parenting moments where I'm like, do better, do better, do better with her than anyone else. Okay, let me pause it there because we got it. Now we're going to get into Top Gun. We're going to talk about the movie, going to talk about Maverick,

going to talk about Tom Cruise and what you're doing now with some guys who I absolutely love in the echelon front. So stand by much more with Dave Burke right after this quick, quick break. Here with us now, Dave Burke, combat veteran and chief, current chief development officer at Echelon Front, which is Leif Babbitt's organization and Jocko. And people may know him from he was married to my friend Jenna at Fox News.

Anyway, it all it all comes together. It's a small community. And I love that you guys found each other. So just so people understand, what does Echelon Front do? Echelon Front is a leadership consultancy. We teach leadership. And just like you said, Leif Babin and Jocko Willink started it. And the only reason I have been lucky enough to be part of that team with Leif and Jocko

and be part of Echelon Front is when I got to Ramadi in 2006, the SEAL team I was talking about was Jocko's task unit. So it turns out that all those major operations that happened during our time in Ramadi, I was fortunate enough to do that with Leif and Jocko's team. So I got to work really closely with them for those six months. As you might guess, we created a really, really tight bond. And then about six years ago, when they were really building out Echelon Front, they said, why don't you come back and join us again? I said, I'm in. So that's our connection there. It's awesome.

So can I tell you, I was there the night Leif and Jenna Lee met. This is, I feel like, special because I was there and we were at a benefit for Navy SEALs with Roger Ailes. And she was there looking like her dazzling self and he was there looking like his. And it was meant to be. These two beautiful people in every way should find each other. And now they're down in Texas.

Okay. So after you came back, did you do anything I should ask to deal with your PTSD? Did you do anything formal to handle that? No, I didn't. I think one of the things, listen, my wife ended up being a massive support for me. And those feelings of being embarrassed, which is, I think, something a lot of veterans deal with is why am I having these reactions? She didn't make me feel like that. So I was very fortunate to have what I consider a really good support system, not just with my wife,

but also my best friend, who also was a Marine and had been through a combat deployment similar to mine. So I had someone I could commiserate with. I also started to learn and think about how the feelings that I had and the things that I was struggling with, they can actually be used to my advantage. It gave me a sense of understanding. And actually, I think it made me a better Marine and a better leader by using it as a catalyst to do a better job rather than some sort of burden that was creating a problem for me. So I was very lucky to have a good support system around me and to have just

enough recognition that I can use this to actually become better. And I was fortunate to be able to get past that with the people around me. You're so extraordinary. This is why I love you guys, the Marines and the SEALs. So for Dave, it's like, what is this? It's I think it's vulnerability. It's like it's a feeling of weakness. I'm going to use this. I can do something with this. It's why we love you guys so much. It's like you're the opposite of these victims, these fake victims running around today who are like, and I've got this disorder and that disorder and the other one. And please feel sorry for me. I'm going to, I mean, yet another online chat room about how weak and sad I am. You're literally the opposite of that. We don't want like, and I don't like the feeling of being a victim, being a victim doesn't help us.

And so I try, you know, not just in the things that I think with other people, but certainly things with myself is I don't want to be a victim. So if I got issues, which we all do, we all have problems in life. Nobody's immune from that. I don't want to let that become a reason why I'm going to be a victim. And I want to try to find a way to use that as a strength. And I think that's the right approach, just like you said. Yes. If you got an issue, you got an opportunity, you got an opportunity. I don't know if it's true, but once somebody once told me that the symbol for crisis in Chinese is the same as the symbol for opportunity. And there's probably a very good reason for that, right? Even if it's not true, it's the same thing. It's two sides of the same coin.

Okay, so let's just spend a minute on Top Gun because this is too fun not to. So then how did you find out that they were making Maverick, which is part two of Top Gun? Yeah, very randomly. I had a friend who worked in some... I'm going to get it wrong. He worked somewhere in Hollywood, a kid I grew up with. And he either at the production company, he knew something. And he knew the guy who was originally going to be writing the story for the movie.

And he's like, hey, they're going to make a sequel. I know the guy who's going to be writing it, you two have to connect. And so I heard through a friend that had a connection that they're going to write the story. And he's like, hey, man, this thing is happening. You should get involved in that. I'm like, cool. Sounds good. So that was my first inclination back. And I think this was like 2016 that this was going to happen. Were you excited? I mean, it must have been a little like, yes. Oh, my God. Totally. I was totally excited. That movie in 20, I'm sorry, when I was 14 in 2000 or 1996. 86, 1986. I'm sorry, 1986. That movie changed my life. That movie changed

my life. Now, I really was hoping that the sequel was good, but I was super excited. I cannot wait. And I wanted my kids to see it. I wanted a whole generation to see this movie and have the same reaction I did. So I was super pumped that it was coming out. It's like the life cycle is so crazy how this very young Tom Cruise played this role that inspired you to become the real deal, not just a Top Gun student, but an actual instructor. And then now the movie comes along where he's in that role and comes back to you to help for advice. I love the whole thing. It's crazy good. Now, the sad part is, as I understand it, you didn't actually become B. I played a very, very limited role. Um, but what I was lucky enough to do, given the timing is as they wrote the initial story, um, I got to sit down and go through the entire story. And, uh, the, the writer, what they wanted was they wanted it

to be as realistic and authentic as possible. And so I got to go through every scene that was at least, you know, it, it evolved over time, but I got to go through every scene. And the questions they were asking was things like, would this really happen? Was this how they would say it? Is this what they would do? So I was fortunate to have a little contribution in the beginning to help them accomplish what they wanted to accomplish, which was as much authenticity and accuracy as you could have. It is a movie, of course, but for me, it was super cool because I got to be a part of it. Plus, I got a little insight into some things that I knew were going to happen in the movie that I was sworn to secrecy on that I knew was going to happen

years before everybody else did. So there was a little bit of fun there for me, too. It's so cool. There was just a story. We just did a long episode on Scientology. This is as an aside. And by the way, it's like doing super well. People are into that story. And he like it came out in our research of Tom Cruise before we did this long show about how he had tried to recruit David Beckham into Scientology. And they built a whole perfect football, not football, you know, European football, but soccer field for him trying to show him like what would what would Scientology do for him and so on. So it may be all for the best that you and Tom did not, because God only knows what he would have used on you to lure you in.

All right, you don't have to comment on that because that was my own. We never met. Yeah, no. Okay. So you're advising them on what it is. And one of the things that must have come up, I'm assuming, is the thing I asked you about an instructor versus the student and who might win because I take the audience. I'm not going to give any spoilers in this and the movie's too new, but, um, there was a scene in which Maverick Tom Cruise, who is the instructor takes on his students in flight and it doesn't go that well for the students um here's a bit of that this is sound

bite five so what's that you put some skin in the game what do you have in mind whoever gets shot down first have to do 200 push-ups guys that's a lot of push-ups well uh they don't call it an exercise for nothing sir you got yourself a deal gentlemen gentlemen. That's a kill. That's a kill. Smoked. You're out, Phoenix. Son of a... Where is he? Where is he? That's a kill.

I got you, Omaha. Damn it. Lights out, Coyote. Copy kill. Down. Over and out. See, he crushes everybody. How realistic is that?

I say the movie did a very good job capturing reality. Now, maybe the only thing they missed is no students at Top Gun are dumb enough to bet the instructors that they're going to win. It's probably the only piece that they added to it. But yeah. And again, it's just a fact of the experience and the training. The instructors and the students, the disparity there is certainly in the one against one. It's a massive disparity. The students don't go there looking to beat the instructors.

They go there looking to learn from them. Is it chummy at all? You know, you're all in military, but there's definitely a hierarchy. Well, there is. It's certainly an unspoken hierarchy. The relationships are really strong. The student instructor bond is very close. We have 25 instructors on the staff. These are rough numbers and it may have changed very slightly. And only about 10 or so of the instructors at a time are fully qualified to train with the students. And then you have about, you know, somewhere between 10 and 15 students going through at a time, again,

rough numbers. So those teams that you match up with them, and you're with them for 13 weeks, you build great relationships, they're great people. And so there's no real competition. And to be quite frank, there's not a lot of ego there either. There's a lot of humility, which I think is highly valued across Top Gun on both the instructor and student side. So the students and instructors get along great. Why is there no co-pilot? What about Goose?

Was that not real? No, no, it absolutely is. Certain variants of jets, like the F-18 has a two-seat variant called the F-18D or the F-18F, and there's a single-seat variant. I just happened in my career to fly the single-seat variants, but the F-14 was, and there's a single-seat variant. I just happened in my career to fly the single-seat variants,

but the F-14 was a two-seat jet back then when Goose was flying it in the original movie, and there is a two-seat variant of the F-18 that's currently flying now called the F-18F. So it's real. I just didn't fly two-seat fighters. I flew single-seat fighters. Now, describe the lifestyle.

Like, do you guys go out, like, boozing together every night and carousing, or is it more like straight-laced military guys? Like, no, my body's my temple. I would say there's a balance there. Um, I would say that kind of like Monday through Thursday, you are, I mean, you're up early. Uh, you have a, it's a hardcore regimen. You're working hard. You are in long, long, long days. Friday night, game on. So I think the team there does a really good job of working really hard and playing equally as hard. We carve out time. If you were to have my wife on this podcast, she would tell you some of the highlights of her life were the Friday nights at the Officers Club at Top Gun. They're awesome.

Monday through Thursday or Monday through Friday at 5pm. People are in the game. They're they do a really good job of balancing those two. I never once in my career, someone's personal life affect their ability to do well in their professional life. And I never really saw too many people who are like really, you know, strident professionals couldn't have a good time after the fact. So it's somewhere in the middle. We have fun. I know you mentioned this, but where exactly is the Top Gun school? The school is in Fallon, Nevada, which is about an hour and a half east of Reno, Lake Tahoe.

So Reno and Tahoe are a short drive away. I actually live, well, my house was in Lake Tahoe. I lived on the base during the week, but on weekends, you're at Reno or Tahoe. It's hard not to have fun in those places. So we strike the balance there partially because of the geography. Feel like I'd be letting my male young audience members down if I didn't ask you. On those Friday and Saturday nights, was it like shooting fish in a barrel to try to pick up a young, beautiful woman? I mean, come on. Well, go be a fighter pilot and you can

find out for yourself. The military is recruiting all wrong. They're putting up bullshit commercials on balkness. They should be showing this. I look back in my military career, both single and married, and have very good memories of all of it. I'm sure. How's that? That's what we call it. Tease for all of you who have dreams.

All right, let's spend a minute on the military and the problems because I tease that at the top and I do think it's an ongoing problem. As I mentioned, I get the stat in front of me. This is just last month. Pentagon leaders warned Congress that the military is facing the greatest recruiting challenge in 50 years in testimony that they gave that there is an unprecedented mission gap right now as they continue to fail to meet their recruiting goals. And it's happening in branch after branch, and they've had to play some sort of funny games with the numbers in order to hit the branches that have hit the numbers this year, had to do some funny math, like take from a pool of reserves. I can't explain it, but we're not doing well in recruiting new young men and women. One of the reasons is that the youth of America, 16 to 24, they're fat. This is one of the things they're citing, that almost 44% of those who would be potential recruits are overweight, which is a disqualifier. So America's youth is fatter than ever. And 52% have never even considered the military. We're not even just raising little patriots who understand how valuable it is to serve. What do you make of these numbers? Yeah. And again, I couldn't narrow down the specifics of those numbers. But just generally speaking, that's not good, not just for the military. That's not good for anybody.

Being healthy, being fit, of course, that's important for the military. And that's an absolute qualification because, yes, there are some unique military expectations, unique expectations and standards of physical fitness. But we don't want people that are out of shape anywhere in America. And that's kind of a heartbreaking statistic because I think parents raising their kids and kids growing up recognizing the value of that shouldn't just be to be more qualified to be a good soldier, a good Marine. But that's sort of a critical thing for you to live a good, healthy, productive, functional life. So those numbers are not good no matter what the context is. What do you hear, if anything, about these soft recruiting ads? It's no longer the few, the proud, the Marines.

It's like, my mom was a lesbian. And really, they're hitting every sort of identity box now and trying to recruit people. Do you think it's related? To be very frank, and I am fortunate. I still live here in San Diego. I live very close to the Marine base. I get to spend a lot of time there. From my perspective, I have no real insight to that part of it.

When I see Marines, and I get to see Marines a lot, Marines are still Marines. And so the process, I think, by which you take... Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and I hear what you're saying. And I'm not trying to diminish the risks that you've highlighted. I think we should be very conscientious of that because these statistics don't get changed overnight. We have to recognize that we were playing a long strategic game here for the health of our country and the health of our military. That said, I am lucky enough to spend time with

Marines on, I'd say, a fairly regular basis. And when I look at young Marines, I see Marines, and they still are Marines. So certainly for the Marine Corps, and I think this is true for the other services, the process by which we take a civilian and transform them into a Marine or transform them into a service member, that process works.

And I think we have as everybody as much talent, skill, dedication, and capability as ever. But the comment you made at the beginning and where this started from, we should not use that, what I just said, as a reason to be complacent. Those things that you described, those aren't good things. We don't want that. We need to change that. But I want other people to hear and recognize too that inside the military, I look at the military

and I have a ton of confidence of what the military is capable of because when I see the Marines, I see Marines. It's never been the rank and file. It's always been the leadership that get us into trouble. The people in charge of the ad campaigns, not to mention the always leadership. Yeah, Megan, you said that so well. It's it's always leadership. And that's true in everything. It's always leadership. That's exactly right. What about this? Heritage Foundation, a conservative organization, does an annual index of U.S. military strength. And they just yesterday put out a report saying years of underfunding and poorly defined priorities has led the military to become weak relative to the force needed to defend national interests on the global stage. The current U.S. military force is at significant risk of not being able to meet the demands of a single major regional conflict. The force would probably not be able to do more and is certainly ill-equipped to handle two nearly simultaneous major conflicts. I mean, do you think that we are paying enough attention to the military, to the funding of the military? Are we getting a little complacent now? I realize we're getting, we're kind of anti-war now in a way we weren't 20 years ago, and that's probably a good thing,

but are we getting complacent on the strength of our military? Yeah, I think one of the perils, and there's so many dichotomies here, Megan, there's so many things to balance is, I want a world where there's peace. I think everybody does. And one of the drawbacks to wanting that is, I think, what you described very well, which is the potential that creates this complacency. And I think complacency is something that has to be thought against and pushed back against all the time. And so when I hear concerns, and I hear comments, and I hear statistics that drive towards the conclusion that we're being complacent, we have to pay attention to that. That's a really important consideration. And the irony is that it's one of the largest drivers of

complacency is when things are relatively peaceful. And this is not to say that I don't want a world with peace. I do more than anything. But it's that period of time where we convince ourselves, maybe we fought our last war, or maybe war will never be like it used to be, or maybe we won't see in the future what we've seen in the past. That complacency can be highly, highly corrosive. You made a comment earlier, too, that is so critical, is that that is leadership's job. Leadership at every level's job to make sure we do not fall into that trap.

That's something that I think the military has always battled, has always struggled with. There's absolutely a curve that has gone through. But the word complacency is a word that I think you highlighted extremely well. We should always, always, always fight against that. And we can't look six months into the future. We have to look years down the road. And so I'm glad you're highlighting that. And I'm glad that there's recognition that that's something we absolutely need to be paying attention to because that can be a killer. This is a high bar, a big challenge, but 30 seconds or less. How do we raise little leaders, the next generation of courageous young men and women?

Yeah. Well, the first thing I would do is I tell all parents to get their kids the Warrior Kids series because what Jocko wrote in those books is literally the best summation, the best explanation, the best description of how we raise kids that grow up to be, and they don't have to be in the military. They grow up to be constructive, productive, valuable members of American society. And as a parent, the first thing I think is important to recognize is that is an obligation that we have, that I have as a parent. And I think it's much easier than we give ourselves credit for, and it's much more controllable and much more manageable than we think. And I think when you set a good example and you're a good role model for your kids, the kids, they're just kids. They're following the leads of their parents. They're following the leads of their role models.

And the better example we set, the more likely the next generation is to be successful. And that's an obligation we should feel and we have. And I know you do. I certainly do. And it's my goal to raise my kids like that. Amen, Dave. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your story. Incredible meeting you. Thank you for having me. This was awesome. Thanks for joining us today. I don't know about you, but I feel inspired. I feel inspired by Dave Burke. I just love meeting guys like that. I feel inspired. I feel inspired by Dave Burke. I just love meeting guys like that. It's just, oh my God, we need to spend more time with him and less time with Meghan Markle.

Tomorrow, I'm super excited to have my pal Mary Katherine Hamm on for the very first time. We have a lot to get to with her, including her personal story about CNN and Jeffrey Toobin. Mary Katherine Hamm kind of broke the rules over there to tell this story. She'd had it and just, boom, dropped a bomb and told what they had done to her because she had the nerve to comment on him and his masturbatory behavior. Okay. So she's going to tell that story live for the first time right here tomorrow. Don't miss that. Plus, I want to tell you that next week, guess who's coming back to the program by popular demand?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. This is huge. We're going to have a great discussion. You will not want to miss this one. Download the show in the meantime so you don't miss anything. The Megyn Kelly Show, Apple, Pandora, Spotify, Stitcher, wherever you get your podcast for free. Also go to youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly.

Thank you for listening. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.