The Megyn Kelly Show - Horrific Buffalo Shooting Gets Grossly Politicized, with Brandon Tatum, Christian Walker, and Devin Nunes | Ep. 322

Episode Date: May 16, 2022

Megyn Kelly is joined by Brandon Tatum, host of The Office Tatum show and podcast, Christian Walker, conservative commentator and social media influencer, and Devin Nunes, CEO of former President Trump's Media and Technology Group, to talk about the horrific mass shooting at a Buffalo supermarket, the background of the lunatic who committed the crime, the horrible media response to instantly try to blame one side, the truth about Tucker Carlson's commentary and the media's false and politicized attempts to blame him for the tragedy, mental illness in America and media's focus on guns instead, the start of the Sussmann trial after the Durham investigation, the state of Russiagate and the media, Trump's new social platform TruthSocial, woke progressive intolerance, the chilling of free speech on college campuses, the need to bring back masculinity, the future of conservatism, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Our hearts are heavy this Monday morning, as yet again an American community is in mourning, thanks to a madman who decided to take out his hate on innocent people doing the most mundane and routine of tasks, grocery shopping. It had been a beautiful, sunny Saturday afternoon in Buffalo, New York. Women at the Topps store to buy dinner for their families, a retired police officer working security. When an 18-year-old who was known to authorities opened fire outside the store, first killing three people. That former cop we mentioned, 55-year-old Aaron Salter, jumped into action and opened fire in defense of others.

He was unable to take out the gunman, however, who was wearing body armor. Salter was killed and died a hero. Inside the store, people started running for their lives. Can you imagine the terror? Can you imagine just trying to shop for your groceries and some lunatic is in there trying to kill you and your children? A dad hiding with his eight-year-old daughter in a freezer to escape the gunfire. 65-year-old Celestine Chaney was there with her sister, looking to pick up some shrimp for her husband and strawberries because she wanted to make strawberry shortcake.

As the bullets started flying, she and her sister ran. Her sister made it out, but Celestine, a grandmother of six, did not. When it was all over, 10 people were dead. Three others hurt. Nearly all of the victims were black, many of them seniors. This guy was shooting down elderly people. Total's a total coward. Their families are now planning funerals far too early as their broken-hearted community kneels in prayer. Little children spotted near the store holding hands as they walk down the street. Their innocence lost. Look at this picture. If you're just listening, go check it out on YouTube and just remember it's at the two-minute mark of the show. Wow, you need to see this.

It's five little children holding hands, just walking down the street together, linked in support of one another, of their community. One police officer seen bending down behind the crime scene tape to talk with young children outside the store. It's hard to see, but the little girl's shirt reads, Love All Beings. Oh, my God little girl's shirt reads, love all beings. Oh my God, it's horrific. That is just horrific. We will not be naming the shooter on this program consistent with our policy of not naming mass shooters who in part are out for infamy and we declined to help.

He's pleaded not guilty, but he also left behind a trove of information, including a 180 page manifesto filled with racist and anti-Semitic commentary. The shooter was white, detailing how and why he picked his target. Some in the media have been quick to point fingers and even place blame on our friend and very popular Fox News host Tucker Carlson. It's outrageous. It's wrong, both factually and morally. Why do we have to go to that place immediately on these stories? Why can't we spend two fucking minutes mourning the people who are dead and trying to understand that we have insane people in this country? We have lunatics. It's a huge country. We're not going to be able to get rid of them all. It infuriates me. People have to inject their politics into everything.

And this guy had a racist manifesto. There's no question that doesn't make it Tucker Carlson's fault. Just stop it. Just stop it. There's the lunatic over at Rolling Stone, her headline. This is a person who wrote for The New Yorker and was fired for wrongly claiming that an ICE worker had a Nazi tattoo on his arm. In fact, it was his platoon's sign from when he served our nation honorably in Afghanistan, trying to protect this lunatic so-called journalist who then tried to defame him when he went on to work for ICE. This woman now, or in between, she worked for Media Matters. Now she works for Rolling Stone, publishing a piece today, the headline of which was, the Buffalo shooter isn't a lone wolf. He's a mainstream Republican.

And yet if you read the shooter's own words, he actually hated Fox News, and he hated conservatism, but apparently that doesn't fit with the narrative these people want to sell. Let's bring in Brandon Tatum, a former police officer and host of the Officer Tatum Show and Podcast. Brandon, welcome to the show. Sorry to start with the profanity. It's just so infuriating to me that the death of these good people immediately has to be turned into a political cudgel immediately. Your thoughts on all of it? Yeah, man. And I see why you're very upset. And I think most people in this country that are rational are extremely upset. I watched the video that he live streamed because I wanted to see exactly

what happened. And it was the biggest display of evilness and disconnect from human society that I've ever seen in my life. And to see people coming out instead of saying, look, this is a problem. This individual was deranged. This is unacceptable in our country. We pray for the families that have lost their loved ones who are just shopping at a grocery store because a person wants to be a lunatic and take his own ideologies and take them personal against people that have nothing to do with what he's saying. Instead of them having the condolences for those family members, they want to make it about politics. There is no other person on planet Earth that's responsible for what

happened in Buffalo, but the person who pulled the trigger on that gun. And I don't want to hear from either side about who's more responsible than who is. It is wrong for someone to do that to innocent people and to do that in general, to murder people based on the difference of ideologies. And I think it's shameful. And these Democrats, they are looking for opportunities to make a rift between people so that they can leverage votes in the midterms and in the 2024 election. I'm almost confident that that's what they're doing. They want this to be about gun laws. Buffalo has one of the, at least New York has one of the strictest, they have some of the strictest gun laws that I have ever seen. But that's not going to stop a person who's a criminal. Restricting guns from law-abiding

citizens is not the solution to the problem. Blaming white people and claiming white supremacy as the leading cause of issues in our country is not going to fix the issue. They are just funneling lies and propaganda. If you look at any statistical data, if you want to go to the data, it appears to me that minority groups like Asians and Black people are disproportionately represented in mass shootings. They don't want to talk about that. To me, in this situation, it's not relevant. But if you want to bring out talking points and facts, then give us the whole story. They won't tell you that in the manifesto, the kid had declared that he was not a Republican. He declared that he did not agree with many things that Republicans are talking about. He was not a Christian. He did not believe in God.

But they don't want us to believe that. They don't want you to know that. And I think it's shameful. um he spoke passionately of this is quoting from glenn greenwald who's gone through the manifesto word for word uh he spoke passionately on the centrality and necessity of environmentalism lamented that the state has long since heavily lost to its corporate backers um ranted against corporate profits and the ever-increasing wealth of the one percent that exploit the people for their own benefit vehemently rejected any admiration for political conservatism, but made clear he viewed it as an enemy to his agenda. Conservatism is corporatism in disguise. I want no part of it.

And yet within an hour of the news of this murder spree in Buffalo, still going off of Glenn here, the media was blaming it on Tuckerlson before anybody had even had a chance to read this manifesto now here's what we know he he did believe in something called the great replacement theory and he acknowledged that this is his research from the internet he was not a tucker carlson fan we don't even have any proof whatsoever he'd ever seen a Tucker Carlson show or even knew who he was. None. Zero. Okay. That's what people need to remember as the media tries to blame this on Tucker. But he did believe in something called the great replacement theory. We can talk about this. We can get into what that is. He attributes

his teachers on it to these other white supremacists overseas uh the shooter in christchurch new zealand in 2019 who killed uh dozens at a summer camp i'm sorry who killed uh many at a mosque and then another uh who killed at a many at a summer camp in norway um he said he's been radicalized entirely by the internet all right and that he's been inspired by somebody like brett and tarrant some guy who's a white supremacist who live streamed himself that's the one murdering 51 muslims at a mosque in christchurch new zealand okay so he said that guy radicalized him the most he went on to list other mass shootings that inspired him my experience with these cases brandon and i don't purport to be an expert in mental health or law enforcement like you, but my experience in these cases is people who want to deprive them of their civil liberties for a temporary basis

so we can figure out what to do with them so they don't unleash more hell on society. And this guy, indeed, one year ago, June 8th, 2021, police were called to his high school in Conklin, New York, and they had him brought in, I guess, for a mental health evaluation, and then nothing was done. We don't know why.

He spent a day and a half at the hospital. He was done. We don't know why he spent a day and a half at the hospital. He was released. We had no further contract with law enforcement thereafter. But my take on this is there are lunatics in this country. We can try to red flag them. We should be much more liberal with civil confinement while we figure out just how big a danger they are to society. But they're motivated by all sorts of things. And to try to blame this on a television host is also insane. These people are deranged. I don't think any, now both people are deranged.

You have the people who are trying to blame Tucker Carlson, which he's never promoted violence. If anything, he always says, speaks about not participating in violence and no rational person thinks that anyone on television should be directly responsible. But these individuals that are like the one who did the shooting in Buffalo, they are extremely mentally deranged. There is something really wrong with them.

They have not connected with humans in society in a way in which that's meaningful. Because like I said, I watched the video and for a person to go out and shoot people in the way he did, he has no connection to human life. And to read his manifesto, and I read large portions of it, I'm going to try to finish reading the rest of it today. But he's disconnected with reality. His thought process is not normal. And I'm not trying to blame his parents 100 percent. But you would you would think as a parent myself that you have a responsibility to monitor your child and know when there's something off with your kid. When you look at him or you challenge him on some things, you try to hold him accountable.

And he has a glazed over eyes and he's playing video games that are, I would argue that he's probably playing video games that are very violent, given the fact that he has no tactical experience in the way he was operating. You know, but as a parent, you have to monitor your children. You owe it to society to make sure your kid is okay. Why is your child threatened to shoot up a school? That don't just come from nowhere a kid is not growing up completely normal have no issues and then because he looks at the internet once or twice somehow he's okay with murdering innocent people driving three hours across town and still

have the mentality that he's going to go through with it that is a perpetuation of behavioral issues growing up that were exacerbated, in my opinion, probably during the 2020 period where kids were shut down, not being able to go to school and being able to be on the Internet more often than they should have been. So I think that there's a lot of blame to go around isolated blame for him for pulling the trigger. But there's somewhat vicarious responsibility from people like parents and authorities who have had contact with him, who have already been warned that he was a dangerous individual. And this is not the first time this has happened. Many of these active shooters have already been in connection with FBI. Most of them, most of them have had some sort of dealings with either police, law enforcement or school authorities who have marked them as a potential problem.

This kid at the issue in June of 2021 was not issuing racist threats at his school, nor threats directed at a specific person or place. However, law enforcement told the Associated Press that this shooter, who was then 17, had threatened to shoot up Pennsylvania's Susquehanna High School around the time of graduation. Okay, so it wasn't a race-based thing. It was just he wanted to shoot a bunch of people a year ago. Then he spends time on the internet, obviously, following these mass shootings, which were

racially motivated, and finds new inspiration to kill a different group of innocent people. We can talk about all of it. We can talk about great replacement theory. We can talk about the fact that there are white supremacists in the United States. We're not unique in that. We do have some here without casting this huge wide net to encompass all Republicans, like the lunatic from Rolling Stone says. Even Liz Cheney is out there today tweeting about her own party, like somehow the GOP is to blame for this. It's so deeply wrong. And if you did this, look what happened in Waukesha, where a black man mowed down all these older people, these marching marching grannies they went by. They were white.

It was shortly after the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict. And he had very anti-white and anti-Semitic postings online. The media totally ignored it. No problem. They only do this one way, Brandon, and it is to push their own political agenda, which is part of the reason why we never make progress on what's really driving these things. A thousand percent. I mean, that's that's why I think it's invaluable. And I know they've scraped it from the Internet. It's very hard to see it somewhat. If you are an intelligent person and you want to get to the bottom of and find solutions, you may want to read to a certain degree this person's manifesto to see, to get insight on what is in the minds of this

young man. And are these issues that are perpetuated in other young men? What are the issues that are going on in the dress? Those if you are just sitting saying Tucker Carlson is the issue, that's not going to stop the next kid from doing what he's doing or what this guy did. It's not going to stop anything. And if you are just doing this for political expediency, you're not accomplishing anything. And Liz Cheney and these cowardice Republicans, they are the biggest cowards I've ever seen in my life. There are no better than these deranged leftist Democrats. When you are sitting here and you know the truth, Liz knows the truth. She's not that ignorant, but you're pushing an agenda to gain favor in an election season. That's all that this is. And Democrats specifically, because I think they do this the worst, they need to tone down their rhetoric, especially lies and propaganda that they're pushing out there. When you get on television, I know people

may not like to hear me say this, but when you get on television and you consistently talk about white people as if they're the enemy of our country, our founding fathers are not right in the eyes of Democrats, police officers are racist in the eyes of Democrats. Every white person has some level of white privilege, which puts them at an advantage over every black person in America, according to the Democrats. They do want to push that white people get pushed away from mainstream society. And when you continue to push this crazy rhetoric, not saying it's 100 percent their fault, but you better watch out for these lunatics that take that, and let

me add this point too, just like the dude in Waukesha, I forget, I hope I'm not saying it wrong, in an individual in Dallas that shot up those police officers, murdered them in cold blood, only shooting white police officers. The rhetoric

that's being spewed that black people are under attack attack and that the white man is holding us back and we are no better off today than we were in slavery. That rhetoric to build hatred and animosity within people and cause them to be radicalized. I think that the radical gentleman and I won't call him a gentleman. He's a he's an evil thug. The guy in Buffalo, I would argue that the divisive behavior and radicalization comes from some of the things that are being spewed. Some of the hatred rhetoric, some of it. I'm not saying that all of it are a majority of it, but some of that is coming from what these Democrats are spewing. And it's not based in truth. It's based in lies and hatred. He he actually had reportedly the names of one of the victims who was mowed down in Waukesha on his gun. So, I mean, who knows what this what this guy what his real motivation was. I want to know more about what he wanted to do in June of 2021.

And I realized it was very focused on race. And he was an anti-Semite as well by the time he walked into that Buffalo grocery store. But we're not doing ourselves any favors by pretending this is the fault of a cable news host. The same as we didn't do ourselves any favors by, if to the extent anybody thought Rachel Maddow was to blame for the Bernie Sanders supporter who went and shot Steve Scalise and four others, even though that guy specifically said, unlike this guy, he was obsessed with Rachel Maddow. He loved her show. He was a huge fan. Right. So he he was listening to all of her narratives about the GOP. And then he went up

and shot a bunch of Republicans on a baseball field. That wasn't her fault. That was not her fault. This is not the fault of Tucker Carlson, who I don't know what they're said. The people he followed, the shooter in this case, overseas, believed in something called a great replacement theory that was about white people panicking that there are too many people of color being brought into, could it be Europe, could be the United States, whatever country they were in, and that black people were going to outnumber white people. So there was a panic of trying to, or it could be Muslims, it didn't have to be black people. And so that's what they use as the great replacement theory. That is not at all what Tucker Carlson talks about on his show. He's pro-America first. He doesn't care whether you're black, he doesn't care whether you're

white, doesn't care whether you're Muslim. He's pro-America first he doesn't care whether you're black he doesn't care whether you're white doesn't care whether you're muslim he's pro-america first and he doesn't like illegal immigration which is a totally mainstream republican position used to be a mainstream democrat position too i asked him about some of this blowback when he came on my show last september here's a bit of our exchange so the great replacement theory is in fact not a theory. It's something that the Democrats brag about constantly up to and including the president. And in one sentence, it's this. Rather than convince the current population that our policies are working and they should vote for us as a result, we can't be bothered to do that. We're instead going to change the composition of the population and bring in people who will vote for us.

So that's there isn't actually inherently a racial component to it. And obviously, I'm not going to stop saying it because they're saying it. They've written books about it and monographs and endless number of speeches. You know, immigration will make this a more democratic country. OK, that's what they believe. That was Teddy. That was Teddy Kennedy's motive in passing the 1965 immigration law was to change the composition of the country. And I just think that that's anti-democratic. American citizens should control their government and they do it by voting. And if you dilute their voting power with immigration, you are undermining democracy by definition. Political immigration. That's what he's talking about. He's not talking. This isn't. But the media tries to get him. They try to get him by saying, oh, it's it's like a sister. You know, his argument is like a sister of what those mass shooters pursued. And therefore, this is his fault, even though there's absolutely no tie between Tucker

and this shooter, that the shooter, as far as we know, couldn't stand Fox News and didn't even know who Tucker was. Right. I think that what they do is they strategically conflate a few different things and therefore they can find consistency wherever they want to plagiarize consistency. And what anybody says, you know, I do. I personally think that there's an attack on white straight men in this country. Does that mean that you're supposed to go out and kill people? No, nobody's even alluding to that. It's being aware of an issue, and then you use your vote, and you go out and run for office and do things that you think could make a difference. It is clear that they're trying to influx a different voting class into the United States of America through illegal immigration.

Because when you see that black people in this country are falling away from the Democrat Party at the numbers in which we've seen over the last several years throughout Donald Trump's administration, they are panicking politically. And that's why when they go out to run for officer, they have the presidential debate. They're starting to speak in Spanish. what are you speaking in spanish for that's not that's not the language in the united states of america and to be honest if people only speak spanish and they don't know english they're not they're watching telemundo they're not watching a regular tv program that you speak spanish for three seconds you know so it's clear that they don't care about people at the border this is a fact they don't care that kids are getting traffic they don't care that women are getting raped they don't care that people are the border. This is a fact. They don't care that kids are getting trafficked. They don't care that women are getting raped. They don't care that people are getting left in the desert by coyotes whom are paid to bring people over to our country.

They don't care. They want them to come here to America. They're willing to extract resources from the American citizens and our tax dollars to support these individuals with the hopes that one day they'll be able to grant massive citizenship to all of these people the hopes that one day they'll be able to grant massive citizenship to all of these people. And in return, they'll get votes. That's exactly what they're doing. They've turned away from the minority vote in the black community. I believe they've turned away from it. They pander here and there. They get Kamala, cackling Kamala Harris in there. They go down to Buffalo to i don't know what they're gonna do down there oh yeah no joe biden's on his way he's going to waukesha i'm sorry he's going to buffalo

he did not go to waukesha he he did he did not go to waukesha wisconsin when the when the dancing grandmothers got mowed down and and that headline on cnn was car car attacks parade goers not a black man who had written anti-white posts online and anti-Semitic posts online attacking white people, because when it's that way, race has nothing to do with it. Right. Joe Biden didn't feel the need to go there. And now you have a white man intentionally killing black people. And for sure, he said race had something to do with it. I get it. But the total knee jerk need to ignore race when it's the one way and make it all about race when it's the other is obvious to all of us. That's why Joe Biden's going there.

He sees an electoral opportunity and make it. It's a weird thing that, you know, it's crazy how instantaneously they've validated this manifesto because as soon as the shooting happened, there's emerged this manifesto and they, they validated it. And in my opinion, initially I was like, how do they know this is even real? How do they know this is not something somebody that recreated on his behalf? How do we not understand that?

I mean, that's actually a very interesting point because they do. I've, I've been through enough terrorist attacks here in the United States where it's committed by a Muslim man where they spend days before they'll say it's real. You know, this hateful document that he posted in justification of his actions. They're so careful, right? When it's when that's the profile. But now it's like, hey, definitely him. Here you go. Now, I just want to show the audience what we're talking about,

because there's such a why it's mattering. And this morning, every morning I listen to conservative news podcasts and liberal news podcasts to make sure no one's corrupting my brain. I don't want to be manipulated by anybody. And so I do put myself through the NPR first podcast every morning. And they mentioned Tucker. They were like and to their credit, they mentioned that there was absolutely no link in the manifesto to tucker or saying the guy was a fan but they blamed it on him they quoted media matters they said it's basically a political argument that's been you know it's very dangerous for him to be making this in fox news and they were not alone i'll give you a couple of the examples uh before i play the soundbite cnn's abby philip calls out tucker in fox news if you watch fox news this is the mainstay of their primetime hours. Tucker discusses it sometimes in euphemistic form, but not really all that

euphemistic. Representative Adam Schiff. Tucker's many things, but he's not stupid when he pushes racist conspiracies like the Great Replacement. He knows the risks. He knows some view his vile hate as a call to arms. The problem is Tucker just doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself. Rick Wilson. The Buffalo Killers Manifo reads like this is a Lincoln Project guy reads like a job application for a junior producer on Tucker Carlson. And no, I'm not being flippant. Matthew Dowd, always to be counted on for something terrible, though they aren't likely to be held criminally responsible. I hold morally responsible for the shooting in Buffalo. Folks like Tucker, Laura Ingram, Trump, GOP leaders like Elise Stefanik, Cruz, Hawley, etc. Get them all in there. Rob Reiner, the actor turned deranged

tweeter. The racist massacre in Buffalo rests at the feet of Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson and the GOP. There are not fine people on both sides. And here is a soundbite giving you a bit more of that. And there are people and I don't think we should be dancing around his name there are people like tucker carlson who are directly trying to preach to these people tucker carlson has said right-wing extremism doesn't exist it's not a thing if you watch fox news this is the mainstay of their prime time hours tucker carlson discusses it in sometimes euphemistic form. It's so crazy, Brandon. We literally had an anti-police and anti-white supremacist ideology on display last month. This is a guy, self-identified black nationalist, who went on a shooting spree on the New York City subway. They moved on from that story, too, in about two seconds. Right. But Tucker Carlson. And by the

way, no cop. None of those people said anything about Rachel Maddow. Right. They see an opportunity to silence somebody who's got a very big platform and a very effective way of messaging on many things and who they perceive as a threat. They're trying to take him out. First, it was the New York Times with this deep profile trying to say he's a racist. And now this, they can't spend two minutes mourning the dead. They got to blame it on a cable news host. Yes, it's crazy that they picked Tucker Carlson. I feel like they're going to get a man more publicity and then people are going to realize

that they completely lied. And that's not what he stands for. No, no, no Republican stand for this stuff. Man, every Republican has come out very clearly and decisively and said this guy's a complete lunatic. It is it is asinine to me because they act as if every Republican is a is a white person. What about the black people who support Tucker Carson and watch him every single day? You ain't black. You ain't black. Maybe you've heard our president's already weighed in on that yeah according to your guy joe biden who's a who in my opinion made a racist statement by saying i ain't black if i don't know who i want to vote for um you know it's very it's very interesting

how they're using some of these talking points as if they're receiving the one email and all of them get out there and say the same thing. You know, it's a, it's a complete double standard. You had mentioned the gentleman in New York. I don't like to call these people gentlemen. I try to be respectful as a Southern guy, but these individuals, the individual in a, in a New York city subway, I mean, his videos on YouTube were completely radical. He, he was, he said he hated white people and that white people are the scum. Black people should not even give or have relationships with white people. They should not mix.

That is one of the most deranged, racist things I've ever heard. He goes out and shoots up a subway full of white people and they won't even cover it. They won't even call him a radical. And I'll tell you this, people, I don't know what they're thinking. There's radical people on both sides. There are black people out here that adamantly hate white people and they attack them. Now, I'm going to make this point because I think if they want to be fair about making points and trying to hold people accountable based on rhetoric, then every rapper that I have heard in the last 15 years should all be indicted and go to prison when you look at the murders that occur in the inner cities. 50 plus percent of all murders in this country are associated with Black males. And most of the victims are Black males. And when you look at the rap music and the rhetoric from that side of it, then how are they not vicariously responsible? How are they not responsible when the music is telling other young brothers to kill each other and to murder people and to be sexually promiscuous? If you want to say Tucker's someone using some of Tucker's talking points, potentially plagiarizing and taking it out of context and using it for evil, then you have to hold the hold the line in the same direction.

It doesn't work that way. And you got the post city nightclub where a Muslim guy goes and kills 50 people or so. Why is she not responsible? How is pushing Islam and Sharia law not responsible for that? If we're not going to hold everybody to the same account, then people need to shut up with making that comparison. I have to tell you, it's's wrong but it's also scary because unlike trump who took a lot of this you know kind of incoming tucker doesn't have secret service protecting him um i'm not going to get into his security but he's much more vulnerable and i don't

want to hear one more word about reporters crying in their soup over mean tweets and what a toxic environment the Internet is for reporters just trying to do their jobs who are now creating this kind of rhetoric about a guy hosting a cable news show who has defended black Americans, Muslim Americans, Jewish Americans, white Americans. Doesn't matter. He's about America first. And they don't they don't like it. And they are endangering him when there's this kind of a pile on trying to say this man at his cable news post is responsible for the death of 10 people. It's wrong. I say again, it's factually wrong. It's morally wrong. And it's

dangerous. We need to have an honest discussion about what drove this 18 year old to want to murder a bunch of people. And I'll tell you this last thing, Brandon. When I was at NBC, I did in-depth reporting on this because the shootings kept happening children they knew were sociopaths. They knew they were loving mothers, but they knew. And there is no place in this country for them to go. There's no facility in this country for them to bring their child. Mothers who are raising the red flag, never mind a school teacher, a principal, a Boy Scout leader. And this is the age, 18 to 25. If you're going to have a psychotic break, this is about when it happens. We need to be focusing once and for all on the absolutely deplorable mental health system for these kids and the absolutely non-existent system for, yes, temporarily depriving them of their civil liberties while we figure out what to do with people we understand are a risk to society. I'll give you the last word, sir.

No, Megan, that's 100% correct. It's sad because if a kid want to transition, they got all kinds of programs to cut the genitalia and let them become a transgender and puberty blockers and all kinds of other stuff. But I feel like that they're dropping a ball with young people who have mental illness. It's no way you are functioning a young person and you're okay with just killing, murdering people like that. There's something wrong. And parents do know when their kids are off. I have family members who are off. We know that they're off. We know that something is going on in their mind and we need more resources. How do we get help for them without it turning violent? You call the police and they show up to assist and that family members become violent with the police. The police are going to have to defend themselves. And that's a lot of people are afraid to go down that path. So what, what

other options do we have for our parents, um, to report their own children or to get them the help they need in a more meaningful way? I believe personally, if the parents would have gotten this young man the help he needed earlier on, maybe he wouldn't have taken his emotional ideologies and turned them into murder. So there's a lot to be said, there's a lot to be talked about, and I hope that we see it turn around. Absolutely right. And the facility, we need to build a facility because it doesn't exist. It needs to be a facility into which a loving parent would commit one's child. It can't be like Attica. It's got to be a facility into which a loving parent would commit his or her child. But it does have to be a secure facility. It can't, it's going to have to have bars on the

windows and the people who get committed there will not be able to leave until, in my view, it has to be sort of a diverse panel of experts who would have to determine whether this person is no longer a threat to society. I have lots of ideas on it. We can save it for another day, but none of it will be looked into in the wake of this shooting, Brandon, because they want to talk about cable. So much appreciate your service. Thank you for being here. Thank you, Beggin. God bless you. You too. Coming up, Devin Nunes. He's CEO of former President Trump's Media and Technology Group, and he's had his own dealings with Adam Schiff. And obviously he's a Republican. We'll ask him what he thinks of the latest. We're going to get into just a bit more about the media reaction to this shooting in Buffalo in just a second.

But I want to start with this, with our with our guest, a major test unfolding today for special prosecutor John Durham. Now, John Durham was tapped to investigate the origins of the fake Russiagate scandal on which the media misled us for two years. Today, the very first trial in the ongoing investigation involving Michael Sussman opens up. It's number it's day one. In 2016, Sussman went to the FBI with purported evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. He was a concerned citizen. He just wanted the FBI to know, looked like Trump was doing something bad. He told the FBI, I'm just here as, you know, Joe Friday. Like I just, I saw this and it's bad and I'm not here on behalf of any client. I just, you know, I'm a good American. Durham, who's been now looking into these allegations, alleges that was a total lie

and that in fact, Sussman was a total lie and that, in fact, Sussman was there visiting the FBI on behalf of the Hillary Clinton campaign and refused to disclose the fact that this is a political hit job. This is not concerned citizen behavior. Joining me now is someone who has waited a long time for this day in court, and that's former House Intelligence Committee Chair Devin Nunes. Devin is now CEO of former President Trump's Media and Technology Group. Very glad to have you here today. Thanks for being here, Devin Nunes. Devin is now CEO of former President Trump's Media and Technology Group. Very glad to have you here today. Thanks for being here, Devin. Megan, great to be with you. It's a pleasure.

Before we get to everything that's happening with Trump and the Sussman trial, let's just spend a minute on what happened in Buffalo. The reactions to what's happened have been just beyond the pale, and I read some of them with our last guest. But I know you've had your exchanges with Adam Schiff. Instead of like taking a moment to just reflect on what's happened here, the loss of life and, you know, the mental health crisis that we're facing in our country, he decides to tweet about Tucker Carlson. I read it in part before. Here it is again. Tucker Carlson is many many things but he's not stupid when he pushes racist conspiracy theories like the grace great replacement he knows the risks he knows some view his vile hate as a call to arms the problem is tucker just doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself that from adam schiff sitting democratic leader uh that's not the same as some random tweeter pundit that's got weight behind it and your view on whether that is the responsible reaction to this? I mean, Megan, this is a guy who for five years now running

has done exactly this. I mean, he's constantly gaslighting. I mean, he clearly knew just, I know we're going to go into the Sussman case, but he was the main perpetrator of the Russia hoax. When I came out in early 2017 and said, hey, look, I don't see any intelligence here whatsoever that would say that Trump has anything to do with Russia, it was him and all of the Democrats there who continually said, oh my God, it's there. You just can't see it. Wait till you see it, things of that nature. So it's been a slippery slope for him and many of the other leaders where there's just nothing that they won't do, nothing that they won't say. I mean, you now have this, you know, the latest attack on the Supreme Court, leaks coming from the Supreme Court. So, you know, what happened, you know, in 15 and 16, which was,

okay, it's just Donald Trump. Everybody hates him. The fake news hates him. So it's okay to attack him. And it doesn't matter how dirty we get because clearly everybody's going to cover for us. And it got DOJ, FBI, all these people involved in this has now escalated to where you have tweets that go out accusing anybody they don't like of racism. I even saw Elise Stefanik, who's a congresswoman from New York, the highest ranked woman in Congress, highest ranked Republican. She's the number three in the House of Representatives right now for the Republicans. I mean, both her local New York paper and then I think even the Washington Post accused her of being a racist. And so, you know, look, I don't know what the basis is for it.

But, you know, clearly it's kind of odd, too, I think, and maybe some of your future guests can get into this, but it's like you have one of these tragic events or it's a shooting and then it triggers other shootings, right? Because we had one in California just yesterday, you know, day after, and then, there was one in Milwaukee the day before. It's strange what motivates these people. But a lot of times it is mental illness. And as someone who has been targeted multiple times by people with mental illness, it doesn't help when you have the left wing in this country gaslighting all over the place and making it sound okay that someone did some of this and try to push blame to people when we've known for a long time, there is a serious mental illness problem. And it's almost consistently, every time there's been one of these mass shootings, it's been something that potentially we could have been fixed if they had the right help. But as far as we know, I mean, our governor in New York State now is blaming the gun. We need tighter gun laws. Meanwhile,

New York State has some of the tightest gun laws in the country. She's using this as an excuse to ask the Supreme Court to decide in her favor on the gun case that's pending before them right now, where they're trying to decide whether New York's very restrictive gun laws, where you cannot get a concealed carry, not open carry, a concealed carry permit unless you have some special circumstances. You basically have to prove that you're a crime victim, you've been stalked, whatever. Can't get it if you're just a regular citizen. And that argument didn't go well for the governor of New York. It looks like Supreme Court, in my view, in the view of most legal experts watching it, it's going to go the other way and they're going to strike down that law, at least in New York. She used today,

she used what happened yesterday in Buffalo as an excuse to try to say, you know, hope the court goes my way. As if concealed carry has anything to do with this. As someone who spent, you know, two decades in Washington, I mean, there are kind of these core, almost fanatical religious, you know, it's almost like a religion to them now. And that is, you know, you have to be, you know, for the Green New Deal, for all the extreme climate stuff, you have to be anti-gun and you have to be pro-abortion. And if you're not those three, you don't really you don't really make it out of a Democratic primary because the party has lurched so far to the left. I mean, I think when I first arrived in Congress, there used to be not a lot of Democrats that were pro-life and pro-Second Amendment. But but there was a there was a handful. I mean, it was it was a significant number.

I can't I can't tell if it was 15 or 20, but it was a significant number. And now there's now there's like zero. Yep. The the the the view. Forgive me for quoting a commentator on the view to you but um you mentioned elise stefanik which is what made me think of it that and that show just aired and anna navarro who used to be a republican um she's a never trump republican she's she's obviously a very far left person now she said and i quote if you are an advertiser advertising on that station meaning fox you are part of the problem. If you sit on the board and are trying to be a civilized person, Paul Ryan, my friends, I'm talking to you.

You are part of the problem. If you are a Republican donor tweeting about how bad you feel about this, but you're donating to people like Elise Stefanik, you are part of the problem. And here begins the pile on on every Republican or their supporters. And it's very odd of all the people they, they, they pick Elise Stefanik. And so take you back just a few years when they've, the, the left and the Democrats constantly said, oh, the Republicans, they, you know, they're war on women. They're anti-woman. They don't have any women that are elected. It's all, it's all just a bunch of guys. Well, what they failed to say is that Nancy Pelosi took it upon herself, spent extra money to defeat Republican women back in 2018 and 2020. So now, what do they do? They know that Stefanik is

a very effective communicator, young lady. I've worked with her for a long time. She was actually very instrumental in dealing with Adam Schiff during the Russia hoax. So she's a very effective leader and happens to be, you know, not only that, but she's also a woman. So clearly, whatever they're, they're clearly, they have designs on her because they see her as a threat or people wouldn't be piling on like this. I mean, look, she's going to have, from my perspective, she's got a massive defamation and slander case here against that local New York paper and probably the Washington Post and potentially even Navarro.

And I don't know who she's, I don't know. Is that, is that NBC? I don't even know. I don't watch ABC. Yeah. I don't recommend it. We'll watch it. So you don't have to know you're absolutely right. Because, and it's's almost, you know, in a way a badge of honor, because if they're coming for you, it means they think you're effective and they feel threatened by you. But in this particular case, it's dangerous. It's just genuinely dangerous to try to tell the nation that she or Tucker Paul Ryan, for goodness sake, somehow has moral responsibility or in fact, actual responsibility, some sort of actual link to a guy who just committed mass murder. It isn't true. And remember, this is they've been very effective at this. Right. So, I mean, you know this because of your time at Fox.

I mean, Fox and other Newsmax, One America News, they've been very effective at getting these woke corporations, which now I think probably 90% of the corporations in public companies in the United States are woke now, or they have to pray to some woke God so they're not able to spend their advertising dollars. I mean, you look at the shows that are on Fox, even though they have sometimes two, three, four, even five times the ratings, you will not see, and this is no slam on Mike Lindell and the MyPillow guy, but you'll often see multiple MyPillow commercials. Now, why is MyPillow able to buy those? It's because the big corporates are throwing all their money to MSNBC, CNN, and the other networks, which you could argue is not even a good use of money because clearly

there's a massive audience on these conservative networks. So look, they're targeting Paul Ryan because they probably believe that they can get him and the Fox board to take some action. And look, and they won't stop there, right? At first it'll be, they'll mention it in the press. And then the next thing they'll do is they'll start harassment. They'll start lawsuits. They'll start sending people to your home. You know, I know that because I've, you know, been dealing with it, you know, since I, in 2017, came out and said that, hey, there's, Donald Trump's not a Russian agent here, and the Republican Party is not under the control of Putin. And, you know, ever since then, you know, I have been, you know, constantly attacked and harassed. It just, it doesn't stop. And they won't stop until unless they think they can defeat you. Right. That's what they want. So you have to stand up for that reason. That's right. Because what you were saying when you went against the grain and said, hold on, it's I'm on the Intel committee. You don't have it. It isn't there. This is made up. They came for you. They were angry that you would say such a thing. They dismissed you as just a rube. And what you were saying was true. It's just didn't align with their political goals of getting rid of Trump.

And they considered him an existential threat. So he had to go and anybody pushing back against the narrative had to go. So, yeah, you've lived this firsthand. The you know, the Paul Ryan thing, my prediction is the Fox Fox will not bend. The Fox board will not bend. They're not firing Tucker and they shouldn't. And he's already lost a lot of his advertisers. A lot of advertisers don't want to go on his show because of this. And you know what? They'll be just fine. If every advertiser walked from Fox News, they'd be just fine. They make most of their money in the carriage fees that the cable providers pay them. Comcast, all those people pay to have Fox News on their lineup because half of the American public pay them. Comcast, all those people pay to have Fox News

on their lineup because half of the American public watches Fox. And in fact, it's the most watched channel by Democrats. I mean, more Democrats watch Tucker than any other show. So they'll be fine financially, even if every advertiser pulls, but it's to your shame and your own business loss if you pull your advertising off of Fox News, because that's half the country. Where else are you going to reach them? You can come on digital media. We're here. But it would just be foolhardy to limit yourselves to a situation that didn't involve, you know, such a such a watch cable channel. Devin, I do want to get into Sussman. It's a fascinating case. It's just starting today and there's nobody better to talk about it than than you.

So stand by. We'll pick it up there right after this quick break. Okay, so let's talk about this Sussman trial today. Michael Sussman is a former partner at the law firm Perkins Coie. And this guy was, one of his partners was Mark Elias, who's a campaign law specialist who represented the Clinton campaign. And Michael Sussman one day walked into the FBI and said, I got a great tip for you. Oh, my gosh, this bad stuff is going on with Donald Trump and this bank. And you should go check it out because I love my country. And I just want you to know that we're looking at a potential traitor here.

And they said, oh, are you affiliated with anybody, you know, like on the Clinton side? No, no. Just here is a private concerned citizen. And that, of course, wasn't true. Michael Sussman denies all that. OK, denies all that. And by the way, the FBI did know they knew that he who he was with and why he was there. But still, it was a lie.

Even if, you know, it's still was a lie even if you know it's still lie even if you know you're being lied to that's what he's on trial for and this is what the judge in that case has ruled devon he said that they can absolutely try to prove that he lied to the fbi he has said that they can um try to prove some aspects of what the special prosecutor john durham has described as the joint venture, the joint venture to defraud the government. Like, why would you do that? Who else was in it with you? Like, what would your motivation have been to lie? But he's not going to allow him to go to prove the joint venture's full scope and membership because they have an alleged conspiracy.

So it's like a little bit of a net to get the people around Sussman, but it's not the full fisherman's net to try to get everybody who is in on this. Do you think, do I have it right basically? Yeah. Yeah. So we can unpack that a little bit. So what's happening here is that they got Sussman on something that really pits him against the dirty cops at DOJ and FBI. So what happened, remember when Sussman on something that really puts pits him against the dirty cops at DOJ and FBI. So what happened this, remember when Sussman walks in, this is after the election, when a cabal of them decide this is after when I say after the election, we got to go back after the election of 2016, Donald Trump wins. So earlier in the last segment, you asked me, you know, kind of,

how did I know something was wrong? Well, it was because shortly after that election, we had our normal briefing that would be an after an election at the House Intelligence Committee. And everything was normal. And in fact, that was the real intelligence. I still go back to that. So three weeks after the election, yeah, Putin's a thug, Putin did bad things, Putin does the things he always does. But it was nothing, no huge ordeal where he's working with Donald Trump and the Republicans. There was no evidence there. And at the time, and that just went away. So there was no issue. And then about 10 days later, all of a sudden, around the 1st of December, 2016, this whole thing gets blown up again and say, oh, no, no, there's evidence of this. And I said, well, wait a second. You just told us there was not any evidence, right? Like, how did this change? And of course, you know, they would say nothing, nothing,

nothing. Oh, we're going to do a report, right? Obama commissioned a report. Obama and Biden commissioned a report. And it got done in record time for any government report that I've ever seen, including with the Christmas and New Year's. This thing was done in a matter of a month, right? So it gets commissioned first part of December, and it's done right at the gang of eight. Oh my God, this is really important. And nothing. Comey's there. All these guys are there. Nothing, zero. I'm like, well, I didn't say it like this, but where the hell are the Russians? What are you guys talking about here? Oh, well, let me just show you, we've got this, what ended up being the Steele dossier. So the Steele dossier gets thrown out there and I'm like, what the hell is this? Where has this been? Oh, we've had it. It's been floating around. Well, wait, you never gave it to me. Well, the reason they would never give it to somebody like

me or anybody else that's ever actually read an intelligence report is it's laughable and it would have taken any idiot, anybody that has any background in this, a nanosecond to figure out that it was all fake. But because the news media was in on it, DOJ was in on it, FBI was in on it, all these people were in on this. So let's get back to Sussman now. What Durham's doing is he's taking a very specific slice of the entire saga. So what happens is Sussman and whoever instructed him to do this gets a little overzealous and decides that they really need this to stick. And one of their latest conspiracy theories was the Alpha Bank conspiracy theory, which was there had been all kinds of garbage, Megan, that dates back that all fake, all phony, just a complete and total kind of a horrible Hollywood script, actually. And then Sussman and they concoct this thing of, oh, my God, there get this tech company that appears to have government

contracts. They actually do go and get and spy on Trump Tower, Trump Apartments, ultimately the White House when Trump was sworn in. And then, of course, Sussman went to the FBI, lied about it, went to CIA, other intelligence agencies, lied about it. And that's what Durham was able to actually get him on specifically. He's already indicted Danchenko, which will be the next trial. So I believe what Durham is essentially doing here is it's really going to put Sussman, who's one of the top lawyers on the Clinton campaign, does he and will he take the fall for the Clinton campaign and the DNC? I think that's what we're going to witness here. We're going to see. My guess is that Sussman is probably betting, well, he has kind of two ways to go. He can bet his life on a DC jury, which is probably going

to be favorable to him. Maybe he'll get off. We've seen what they've done to others. Or he would have to give up the goods on all of these cast of characters, which would take down the entire DNC, the Clinton campaign, possibly even Obama and Biden himself, and these dirty cops at DOJ, because we know there were top level people at DOJ and FBI that clearly were involved in this. And so I think Sussman has probably had to weigh that. What are his best chances? And I guess right now he thinks his best chances with the DC jury, because clearly they were all in on it. It was a conspiracy. Durham knows it. There's plenty of circumstantial evidence that we uncovered with our 14 criminal referrals that we made.

Durham just has so much more now, and it'll be interesting if he does. He's got some cooperating witnesses. So for those of us who have been, our lives really were upended by this whole fiasco. And it's not just me, but it's people that I worked with. It's, you know, think of the people like Carter Page, whose life was ruined. General Flynn, whose life was ruined. Donald Trump, who had to spend basically his whole presidency defending himself that he wasn't a Russian agent. So, so much damage has been done to all of these institutions. But here in the next couple of weeks, if this trial does move forward, jury selection is happening today, there's going to be some interesting witnesses, including someone who had a couple that have immunity from both Fusion GPS, which was hired to put all this together.

And then from this tech company that was doing the spying, someone's been given immunity there, I believe. So that's going to be fascinating testimony. It's going to get a lot of people excited. I mean, so at Truth Social, you'll like this, Megan, where our new social media company, people are going crazy right now. I was actually just looking at it during the break because it's the first Durham sighting. So people have like three seconds of video of Durham walking into the court and everybody, you know, so a lot of, you know, millions of Americans have been following this. People want to see justice and like and like a Durham sighting now is is something that everybody gets excited.

Rock star. They're going to have to choose between this trial and the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial. So there which is also attracting a lot of attention. So this is just to go back. When did all of this start? Do you do you know? Do you have the do we know when Fusion GPS and like the whole Steele doss dossier, when did that first start percolating? Yeah, we pretty much know that they concocted something and they were looking at doing something in late 2015.

I believe actually Lee Smith, who wrote probably the book on this called The Plot Against the President. He actually nailed this. He actually nailed in his book that came out, gosh, I don't know, three or four years ago, all of the fake news people that were totally in bed. We didn't talk about that. All the fake news people who were in bed with the DNC and Sussman and all of these, the infusion GPS. I mean, now how do we know that? Because Durham has actually provided some of that information in his indictments and pleadings that the media was in on it. So Lee

Smith actually, I think, has the best lead on this because he got something that we were not able to get when we were investigating. There's the Steele dossiers that everybody kind of knows about that went on for, I don't know, six or seven months that culminated with Sussman, Alpha Bank running into the FBI. That was kind of the last, as I remember, that was kind of the last dossier of the dossier. But there was something that Lee Smith called proto-dossiers that still had nothing to do with. So it appears like those were probably written and concocted in late 2015. By early 2016, they're definitely targeting Trump. And what happens is, is that they take that story from Trump has connections to dirty Russian oligarchs. That was kind of the pre-proto dossier

kind of storyline to Trump has dealings with Putin. And we know from our investigation that Obama's briefed on this. We know that his attorney general has briefed on all of this in early spring 2016. And of course, everything's put in motion to run. I mean, there's all sorts of stuff. We could spend multiple shows on it. line is, is they started running spies and agents into the Trump campaign, right? They lure Carter Page to take a trip to London. They get Papadopoulos to, you know, to go down to Italy. They've got, you know, they convince Alexander Downer, an Australian ambassador to, you know, to basically come up with fake, you know, phony information on George Papadopoulos and frame him. And so the FBI, DOJ, Obama, they were all in on this whole thing that they tried to get going. But of course, they weren't able to do it. Why? Because there was no there there. Because there was no, even as much as they tried to force to make it happen and set up the Trump campaign and Republican operatives, they were never able to do

it. And sadly, I think, when you look back on all this that's happened, it wasn't Trump that had anything to do with Russia or Ukraine or China. It was actually Biden and the Biden family. And that's why- The crazy thing is, no one's paid a price. No one has paid a price for their malfeasance. And that's what Durham is trying to get to the bottom of. He's trying to one by one extract some prices from those responsible, though, you know, there's real question about whether he's ever going to get the big, the big enchilada, you know, be able to establish the massive story the way you just did, or just these little slices. And I know, you know, you recommended the 14, 14 criminal referrals to the Department of Justice when you

were on the House Intel Committee. And I know you say you hope that Durham's looking into every single one of them, but what's your confidence level that that's happened? Yeah, I think, I mean, he definitely is just by like, because what we, you know, for the most part, what you saw in all of that was 14 criminal referrals involving actually dozens of people that needed to be investigated. Now we had a circumstantial case. We, you know, we had some direct evidence, but not like what Durham's able to produce. So look, it clearly was, was conspiracy. That carries some very stiff penalties at the same time. It's hard to prove, And they're going to have to get somebody to break. I'm sure they thought that Sussman would break.

He didn't. Now, like I said, just to reiterate, Durham, this is why what's going to be so fascinating over the next couple weeks, Durham did get two important witnesses to break. And they were able to, that are going to testify because they got immunity. And that's going to be fascinating. The Fusion GPS guy and the guy who worked for that, it was, is it Georgia Institute of Technology? The tech company, Jaffe is the guy. Jaffe is the guy who's being investigated by Durham. And actually that was the one- Jaffe's the guy. We had a guest on talking about him. Jaffe's a very colorful character who had access to all these government servers, the server of the White House and other places. And he's the one who said, we're going to use this access to look for connections between Trump and the Russians.

And that's what leads to the term spying, because he had authorized access to the servers, but not necessarily for this purpose. And so, yeah, sorry, go ahead. I mean, look, that whole thing about spying, I know you probably want to move on from this, but it's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever, like I've had to deal with it. Like how the media can even argue over what the definition of spying is. I mean, they ran agents into the Trump campaign. If that's not spying, I don't know what the hell is. So, you know, that's why, you know, I left Congress and to go to it, to run a social media company startup is because I could just see you have 95% of the media out there is totally fake. And they're willing to say, spying, that's not spying. What do you mean?

You ran somebody into a campaign. How the hell is it not spying? Morons. How is it not spying? Exactly right. And so, you know, and then when you run that through to, you know, through the Facebooks and the Instagrams and all of that, and they say, oh, no, the Hunter Biden laptop story, we're killing that completely. Like, we're going to kill the story right before an election. And oh, by the way, Zuckerberg just happens to throw in $420 million into a campaign in the targeted states. I mean, we just have lost our ability to even communicate with one another because people are so reliant on these phones and on their iPads and on their desktops.

And I think that's why we've... And I say this, Megan, because this is kind of how this went down for me. I sat there for all those years saying, what? It's not sp saying, wait, what? It's not spying. Like what, what the hell are you talking about?

It's not spying. And then you would see these polls. Like when we first started, it was like 20, you know, only like 25% originally thought, no, the Republicans aren't like,

and aren't being controlled by Putin. And then we gradually fought over the years and the polling, even on election day, the last polling that I saw still had close to half of America that went to the polls in 2020 still believe that Donald Trump had something to do with Putin. And it could have been further from the truth. And that was kind of between the sensory of the New York Post story, the Hunter Biden laptop story, Parler being cut off by Bezos at Amazon. I just knew we have a much bigger problem in this country. If we can't even communicate with one another freely to be open for political speech, we're going to be totally screwed.

And that's why I left Congress. One of the people who believed that was our new disinformation czar, this woman, the show tune tyrant. One of our guests labeled her, which I love, Chris Ruffo, showtune tyrant, was matter what he proves in court, do you expect a big report from him that will, in a narrative, explain to us what he's found, what happened, even if he didn't find it indictable? And will it be up to Merrick Garland to release that to us? Because this whole thing got started when Bill Barr was Attorney General and appointed Durham to go look into this. So he's got to report back to the DOJ. So I think the answer is right now, we know he was instructed to do a report. At this point, I don't really want to report at this point because I want to see, I mean, this case is going to be critical, right? It's going to

be interesting to see what a Washington DC jury does if they're willing to actually enforce justice, because there's no question that this guy lied. So we'll see if that happens. The case, I believe it begins in August. And I think Danchenko is a much more interesting figure who's- He's the guy who put together the dossier and kind of handed the information to Christopher Steele. The Wall Street Journal just had a great report on Denchenko and his two loser friends who just sat around gossiping and that turned into the St commissions this dossier. At first, they have that early dossier, which is just their garbage that they're just trying to float around in 15 and early 16. Then they need to hire an avatar. And that's why they hired Steele. You know, Steele had been an MI6 guy. He had spent some time in Russia. What a perfect guy

that they could just hire. Steele didn't write this stuff, right? Well, and what they did, and then Danchenko was essentially another avatar because they had to have a source. And if you remember, we were, during our investigation, we're like, where the hell is your source? And I had all these dirty cops at DOJ and FBI who said, oh my God, if we tell you the source, people are going to die. They're going to die. They're going to get killed. Well, that right there was a lie because this is a guy who was a Brookings Institute dude at one point, you know, clearly left wing. He's, he's hanging out right in DC. And guess what? He doesn't made this crap up. Like he just made it up. He was

another avatar. So from my look, I think you're putting this together. This is really fusion. GPS concocted the whole damn thing. Steel is an avatar. Danchenko is an avatar. Danchenko's problem is, and this is why I think it's going to be interesting, is he did a whole bunch of lying. And that's going to be, I think, a problem for him because he was essentially what appears like they were planting information and they were just telling Danchenko, hey, say this, hey, say that. So it was just essentially, like I said, it was just a bad Hollywood script to frame, you know, Donald Trump and the entire Republican Party.

Again, Danchenko is the next guy to go on trial. So I'd like to see that just yeah. So just to close that, I want to see that trial. I do believe, you know, that this Jaffe seems like he's under investigation. He could be indicted. And, you know, clearly, will all these people, and this is the question, take the fall to protect the DNC, Clintons, and the dirty cops at DOJ and FBI and the fake news media who were all involved in this too? Will those guys do serious time? And I think the Danchenko issue is going to be interesting because he's going to be tried in Virginia, should be a much more normal and fair jury, I would think. And then after that, you know, then I'd like to see a report. But most importantly, I think we want to see people pay a price for the biggest political scandal in modern U.S. political history. Wow. Well, we'll see if Merrick Garland manipulates it or doesn't let us see it. I'm sure it'll come out in much the same way the Mueller report did when they felt Bill Barr didn't accurately represent his findings, though Bill Barr would way that they look like they're headed to come

November, Garland's going to have a bigger problem on his hands because if Republicans do get the majority back in the House and the Senate, I know, I mean, there's enough good people that I worked with there. I mean, there's going to be a zero tolerance. I mean, subpoenas are going to go out right away to these guys if they try any shenanigans. So not that a subpoena is the end of the world, but we know so much more about how dirty the left will be, but I'm sure there's going to be a very low tolerance level by both guys like Senator Grassley, Senator Johnson that worked closely with us on our investigation from the Senate side, Jim Jordan, Elise Stefanik, who we talked about earlier. So they know that these subpoenas have to go out. So I think Garland has to be looking that,

you know, kind of that down a barrel. And I just think this is an issue that is, you know, is never going to die until justice is served. And if justice is not served, then I think we're in a situation where we're just going to have the continued decay of these institutions. And that's why I've said that so much is riding on John Durham and his team, which really is kind of the future of these institutions in our country. I remember watching you push back against these narratives about Trump. And I remember thinking, I have no idea what the truth is. There's no freaking clue at that point. You know, I mean, you guys were just putting it together. You were putting it together and you push back. And I remember seeing what the media

did to you and thinking, my God, either he is a complete stooge who knows nothing, who's for some reason taken a huge risk to his reputation or he's telling the truth and the media can't stand to hear and you we have an answer to that i mean if there that is a factual thing that one can know and now we know that you were telling the truth that they tried to destroy you because what you said went against their narrative and it's a pattern that they have repeated way too many times let's spend a couple minutes before you go on Truth Social. So it had some trouble getting off the ground. It had a lot of people who wanted to get on who couldn't get on and so on. My understanding is it's running better now. But what is it? Is it like a Twitter? Is it like a Facebook? And how are you going to make it work

when Trump reportedly says he's not really going to do much on there until it gets more traction? Well, that's so a lot of that, you know, once again, it's basically been fake news, right? So, so I took, you know, we just, it's a startup company, took over in January, both President Trump and I said, Look, we're not going to do anything till the end of the first quarter, in terms of being available, you know, for the full public. So what we did do those, we started beta testing. Actually, in early February, we started beta testing, and we slowly were adding people. We had an overwhelming number of people sign up that wanted to be on the app, and we just couldn't take them yet because

we're not doing things like relying on these big tech companies. We were building out our whole entire cloud so that we can't be canceled because we want to protect our users and our user base. So kind of what happened, Megan, was that as we were rolling out and we had a huge wait list, which by the way, was the plan. That's a good sign. And the fake news said, oh, it's a disaster. Nobody's on it. It's like, hey, morons, did you not see what we've been saying? And then lo and behold, middle of April, we opened up RumbleCloud wide open. So everybody can go to the Apple App Store and download. And by the way, then it was 10 days in a row, like number one on the Apple App Store. And I think the fake news media didn't know what to do. We were even ahead of Twitter, who was taking up all the oxygen in

the room. We're actually ahead of them. This was during the whole when Elon Musk was going to buy them is essentially when we launched on Apple. And now in the coming days, we're actually going to be open for our web browser. We're beta testing that now have been for a while. And we're going to go live with that here just in a matter of a few days. So the truth is, is that we're the fastest growing social media company, I would argue, in history. Nobody's added more users like we have. And we're only on the Apple App Store and only in the United States of America, I will add. So I've had to just kind of deal with these fake news narratives, which good thing is, is I'm used to it.

Donald Trump now is on there. He's posting four, five, six, seven times a day. And our goal is to be a place where you can't be canceled. You're not going to be censored politically. But also, more importantly, what we're looking at is people have migrated to Instagram and TikTok are where the consumer is. And so we need a platform. So we do a lot of what we already do what twitter can do um but i would say we have really good pictures and our and we have really good video and our goal is to have a real component like instagram has with video but still be a place for content creators like yourself

where you can easily post links and get clicks because i think that's one of the problems with instagram instagram sucks you in they keep you. They keep people there for a long time. But Megyn Kelly doesn't get very many clicks. She may get views, but you don't get actual clicks down to your podcast. Somebody may watch it for five minutes, but they don't click and actually download your podcast. So we're looking at, that's where the market is.

There are hundreds of millions of Americans that are, and people around the globe. What if I go on there and I say something not nice about President Trump? Do I, does my link still work? Oh my God. It happens all the time. I'm only teasing. No, I know it does.

Oh yeah. I gotta go. I gotta go. So I need a quick answer on this, but what do you, do you believe he's really going to stay off Twitter? He says he's not going back on Twitter. Yeah, Twitter, Twitter is, that's an interesting case. So I was making the case about Instagram and I've been saying this for a while.

Anytime at True Social that we spend worrying about Twitter is a waste of our time. And I know that, and kind of you're seeing this now in the last few days with Elon Musk, where he came out and said that it's greater than 5% are bots or fake accounts. What I've said, and I'll stick by this, it's a lot closer on Twitter to being 5% only real accounts than it is to being only 5% fake accounts. So normal people, and I'm not, no offense to you, Megan, but look, celebrities, Hollywood people, political hacks, old political people like myself. Yeah. Those types of people are on Twitter. It's like an echo chamber for blue checkers to go argue with one another. But I promise you, if you go to

kind of your high school friends or college friends and you say, how many of you in the room are on Twitter? And I guarantee you, probably only your hand would go up, Megan. There would be nobody else. Now, Instagram, Facebook. I only have a toe on Twitter. I tell you, I don't spend that much time on it. I mean, you're boss now. Trump used to tweet 58 times a day that that was like an actual stat. I just can't do it. I'm just I have too busy a life. I just and he did, too. But he had people helping him. Listen, I hope it succeeds. We need more competition in this space, not less. And we need less censorship and we need more commitment to the full expression of values, even conservative values. So I support the mission and I hope it does really well. Devin, it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure talking to you. I hope you come back. Absolutely. We'll watch this Durham stuff closely. All right. All the best to you. Coming up, Christian Walker is here.

So excited to talk to him. And I know you're going to love this exchange. So excited for our next guest. It's Christian Walker. He's a very popular conservative commentator. He happens to be the son of NFL legend and Georgia Senate candidate Herschel Walker. And he is a social media influencer with millions of TikTok and Instagram followers who has been requested many times by our listeners. And I have become a fan too, thanks to my hairstylist who introduced me to Christian. Christian, so glad to have you here. Welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. Me too. I told her, I'm like, today is the day, Sarah. She was like, oh my God, I'm dying.

She loves you. And she's the one who started playing me your Instagram videos. And they're so funny. I always get a laugh. You always say smart things. You're fearless. So let's start with how did you get to be this way? How did you get to be totally fearless in your political commentary and your willingness to express your even controversial opinions? So it just happened very naturally when what I call the BLM terrorist attacks were overtaking the country. And I watched my city. I live in Los Angeles. I watched it go up in flames one day. And then I went on Instagram and I saw everyone posting black squares supporting the violence. I didn't have any friends that were speaking out against it. I felt like I wanted to voice my opinion. And from there, I just started

talking about all of my different political takes and it just took off. But yeah, I tried to add in a little bit of humor with everything that even if it's a serious topic, I think it's super important to add in humor. And so I try to seek to do that every day. Yes, I will. I'll get to some of the ones. I'll show you my favorite one in a minute. But one of the ones that went totally viral was about Joe Biden, right? Was it the was it the you ain't black comment that he made? Yes. I even think President Trump retweeted that one or that was one of my first really big ones when he said, you ain't black. And it was just very interesting that it's funny how the left is always talking about racism and this and that, yet they're the ones who attribute certain

characteristics or behaviors to a skin color. I don't think how you vote or your political beliefs should determine what your skin color is or determine who gets to tell you how to think. So, yeah, that was one of the first big ones. We have a little bit of that. This is soundbite seven, which went totally viral. Joe Biden, your comments disgusted me today. Black America has been fighting stereotypes that we all have to speak a certain way, that we all have to act a certain way, and that we all have to vote a certain way for years. You said if we don't vote for you, we ain't Black? Who are you to determine who's Black and who's not?

Who are you to determine Blackness? You do not get a path from racism just because you're an old white liberal. You showed your true colors today, sir, and you lost a lot of black America today. Thank God. That's fascinating. But did he get a pass on that? a lot of the left always gets a pass for their blatant racism. And I'm not one, I'm not a woke type who's always looking for someone to say something racist or finding racism in what someone says, but saying that someone isn't black because they don't behave in a way that you attribute to quote unquote blackness, I would think is racist. Yeah. And didn't, wasn't it? Who is it? Was it Sonny Hostin on The View who just said black American is an oxymoron? I mean, yeah, black, black American, black Republican. Yes. Always coming in with the crazy hot takes. I feel like

she tries to out crazy herself every single day. I mean, it must be annoying. We've had a lot of black conservatives on the show who are like, could you just spare me the lecture? It's just so it's so diminishing. It's so offensive. And they get away with it. They get away with it with calling people like, you know, Clarence Thomas, Uncle Tom, just because he's conservative. There's an expectation you're supposed to be on one side of the aisle. Yes, they don't allow you to think for yourself. And everyone's always saying that, but they think that they are the ones who get to dictate what you believe because of your skin color. There's no freedom of thought. There's no room for freedom of thought on the left. So you were at SMU, which is of the universities out there, somewhat friendly

to conservatives. It's a weird scale, but I would say that's probably more friendly than where you wound up. So you voluntarily left SMU and transferred to UCLA, and you've documented some of what that's been like. But from where I sit, it's been terrible. They've been terrible to you. It's been horrific. Don't even ask me why I left SMU. I was having a wonderful time. I just wanted to be intellectually pushed a little bit more. And I'm really happy that I did wind up transferring to UCLA because of the battles I've gotten in and because I've been able to showcase how insane the left is on campus. But they've been nothing but horrible. The professors, the students conspire against me. They threaten

me. I have to walk around campus with security every single day or every day that I have class. My parents send me with a security guard because they're nervous I'm going to be beat up on the campus. Well, it seems well-founded. I mean, have you been attacked before? I remember seeing some sort of post about that. And then I definitely saw posts where they're saying how they want to hurt you. Yes, they say they want to beat my ass on campus on Bruin Walk, a certain a certain section of UCLA. So it would be very weird and nerve wracking to go on campus without without a little bit of protection. Oh, my goodness. So it's I mean, this sort of tolerant, right,

the far left society that's on campus, I'm sure at UCLA, that's certainly what I mean, if you were out as a gay man, if you were a black gay man saying liberal things, there's no way they'd tolerate any of this against you, right? But they're the ones perpetrating it against you because you happen to lean conservative. It's insane because I check all of the woke identity boxes. I mean, I, certain facets of my identity, um, would be stereotypical or what, what the woke left worships yet, because I don't think how they expect me to think. And because I don't think how my demographic typically thinks, um, they hate me and they really show and they really show their true colors, which is far from tolerant. The most anti-tolerant people in the world. And what blows my mind is

they love talking about how it's the South who's intolerant. I grew up in the South and I was judged based on my character. Yet in liberal sections of the country, it seems that people are judged simply based off facets of their identity, such as skin color and sexuality. And that's ridiculous. What do you make of it? I mean, what you just this morning, I was at my daughter's school where they're hiring a new head of school and we get to interview the potential candidates and ask our questions. And at each one of these, we've heard about DEI and the commitment to DEI, diversity and equity and inclusion and how important it is. And I wonder, like, as a as a black man who thinks more conservatively, how those programs grab you? program to give me special rights to be able to succeed. I can succeed based on working hard. But clearly the left doesn't believe that. And I think it's a mix of demeaning, quote, unquote, people of color. I effing hate that term. It's the worst. It's so weird.

But demeaning people of color, as well as trying to seek revenge against white people, I think that's what these programs are based off of. Now, maybe our audience is getting a feel for why these kinds of discussions happen in the classes that you have the nerve to attend after paying tens of thousands of dollars to go there. This was apparently from a Chinese class. And I know you speak, you have a degree, I think, in that talking about keeping you out of their class um by asking quote not to be grouped with him uh somebody writes i want to bully his sorry ass so bad they're horrified to find out that you're in the class one says i need

to find the proper way to say you're a effing piece of shit in mandarin so i can practice that with him somebody says oh my god i just stayed after class and explained to somebody that uh about you and she was just like yeah i know about him but unfortunately my goal in this class is to teach chinese so i guess it's your teacher so i am not allowed to judge him but if students request not to be grouped with him then i can accommodate those requests my god my god and you you respond I'm not a victim. I don't care that a couple of miserable people with pronouns in their bio don't like me, but I'd like to point something out. If I was the same person, I am black, attracted to men, but I was on the left at UCLA

would expel these students. Yes, 100%. Absolutely. And what's so crazy is you're supposed to go to college to be introduced to people who come from different walks of life and think differently than you. Yet in 2022 on college campuses, students are conspiring with teachers to exclude people who have certain political beliefs. I had another student, another classmate who emailed the teacher, I'm a Nazi because I'm a conservative. So this is the sort of rhetoric and the sort of discrimination that conservative students face on college campuses. Now, it's not just, sadly, the students and some of these professors. The university itself

came for you. They sent out some tweets saying, we understand some inappropriate or hateful comments have been made. And I wasn't sure what it was about. Here I have it. The UCLA Dean of Students tweets out, Dean of Students is aware of remarks in which a student uses hurtful language on social media. Here you go, Christian. The words we use online can hurt or heal. While freedom of speech may protect the right to make offensive statements, we encourage our students to exercise their rights in a lot of times the N word is weaponized against white people. So black people will call each other the N word all the time, rap about it in their songs. And then if a white person happens to rap along to a popular song, suddenly they're enemy number one, they need to be fired from their job. And I called that idea retarded. This prompted a million emails from leftists who want me expelled from school.

The Dean of students winded up tweeting that out. But it's funny because fellow students talk about beating me up. They call me racist slurs. They call me slurs that would, that would get them expelled if I was a leftist, but they're not punished. It's, it's all about me because, because I'm a conservative and I don't believe in this race Marxism and the insanity that takes place on college. It's so great you have the perspective and the strength to be able to know that, to know why they continue to target you, because it can be stressful to have this amount of incoming. And there's a lot of nastiness and threats and hate and so on. So how do you,

does that affect you at all? I always say, I know there's so many conservative students that don't have my platform and really are utilizing college or at least their undergrad degree to be accepted to a med program or go to law school. So they don't have the courage to speak up. They're, they're scared that professors will punish them grade-wise. So if I can use my platform and my position and how blessed I've been to shed light on what's taking place on campuses and help end the discrimination against conservative students, I'm happy to do that, even if it means backlash. That's awesome. I just love that so much. So you, now you, I refer to you as a gay man, which I shouldn't have done. You don't like that term.

You use it, you're a, you say it the way you like it. I don't. I think I call the gay world and the LGBTQABCD crazy crap, the rainbow cult. And I don't even want to be attached into that. I don't agree with the lifestyle. I don't need to go to a pride month every or a pride march every pride month and walk around the streets naked and have sex behind a dumpster to know I'm attracted to men. I'm attracted to men. That's where it ends. So I differentiate myself by saying I'm attracted to men. Don't put that ghetto trash G word on me.

I love that. Okay. So now this is one of the ways in which I was introduced to you because it was after I remember what it was after that I found this meme. There was that tweet where the one guy tweeted out a picture of his wife shoveling the driveway and he was like, she just came home from working overnight all night at the hospital. And now look at her. She's out there shoveling the driveway.

It was like, what the hell is a Canadian guy? Everybody was just raining shit on this guy for like, what are you, why would you be tweeting this? And he's like, oh, I made her breakfast. I remember being like 100%, he did not make her breakfast. But that is when I saw the following from you hold on i gotta find it my soundbite list is so long let me find it uh this is it i think it's back yes here it is hold on sound by eight it was the last part watch this i'm not for the draft i'm just

saying our men used to be drafted into war to protect us and now they're putting their mask on in between bites while they eat because they're scared of fresh air. Bring our men back! Where's our men? Can we bring our big, strong muscle protectors back? What happened to them? They're at pride marches. It's so true.

I love it. Bring our men back. Where's our men? I couldn't agree more. It's like, it's fine. Takes all types, but it's not like, you know, there's a very large space missing if you take back our manly men. Something that you tried to make the point on in another very funny bit on TikTok. This is why he's so popular, everybody. This is soundbite 12 on feminism. Women. So I know a lot of y'all are big feminists and into the E word equality, but we can be equal and do different things. Why would you want to go to war

and do the big muscle man stuff? I don't even want to do the big muscle man stuff. Let's stay home. Let's go shopping. Let's get a coffee at 2 p.m. Let's take cute Instagram pics and let's leave the hard work to the muscle men. Let's let them do it. They can take care of us. They can provide. I don't want to do that stuff. And if I don't want to do it, then I'm sure y'all don't want to do it. We'll do the fun stuff and they can do the hard stuff. See, we can still be equal, but we don't need to do the same tasks. We'll leave them to do the dirty tasks and we'll do the fun ones like baking cookies when they come home. It's so funny because all the response to that video came from all the like Marxist far left feminists.

And they were like, he's right. That's exactly what I want. And I'm like, this is literally traditional conservatism just packaged in a fun way. And you say that's what you want. Well, that's actually something that you focus on. Like it's kind of a message that you have for conservatives. Like conservatism doesn't need to be like old and dodgy, stodgy and boring. It can be fun. And that's sort of captured in how you do like your Starbucks video every day.

Like talk to us about your approach and why you do it the way you do. Well, I know that the left has a big hold on young people. They dominate Hollywood. They dominate the media. They dominate social media platforms. A lot of the big influencers outside of the political space are leftist multinational companies bow down to the woke left. And they're fun. They're colorful. They're sparkly. They push their political messages in fun ways. So I see why it's attractive to young people who aren. It doesn't need to be with a suit and tie every time. Of course we need that. We need the professionalism and we also need the button down fun. And so I try to bring that aspect to my political commentary. We need sound bite 10 before we go any further. It's a follow up in the last point. Go ahead. I like my man big and muscular.

Oh, sorry. I'm just making a video yeah thanks anyways pulls down the shades we are like super feminizing men these days and it is like, thank you for being our ambassador. Little irony thrown in there, a little humor and a lot of fun. And, you know, speaking of manly men, your dad's looking pretty good in this Georgia Senate race. How do you feel about it? He's doing great.

The primary is coming up soon. I'm not super involved in the campaign, but I know he's about to slaughter that primary, which will be fun to watch. And then I think it's a tough race. I think, you know, a lot of Republicans, a lot of conservatives, I think we have a chronic problem of overconfidence sometimes. And so I really just want to see it through, continue working hard, continue hitting the proper issues so we can take back the House and the Senate in November. It's not a done deal just yet. However, with my dad, he's raising tons of money and I think they're going to wind up doing a good job. Hugely popular and endorsed by Trump, which has worked out well for a lot of guys so far. Christian, what a pleasure. I hope you'll come back. You're too fun not to know on an

ongoing basis. It was an honor. Thank you for having me. Oh, the pleasure was mine. You can find him on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok. He is a must follow. Need I say more? Let's hear it again. Soundbite 10. I'm not for the draft. I'm just saying our men used to be drafted into war to protect us. And now they're putting their mask on in between bites while they eat because they're scared of fresh air. Bring our man back! Where's our man? Where's our man? Love him. Well, if you want a real man,

you should stay tuned to this show this week because we are going to have Jonathan Isaac with us this week. Remember him? He's the NBA player who refused to kneel for the National Anthem and then refused to get the vaccine. You can imagine what happened to him. He's got a new book out. Fascinating guy. He'll be here. In the meantime, download The Megyn Kelly Show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify, and Stitcher. Also at youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly. Thank you so much for listening.

Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.