The Megyn Kelly Show - Horrifying Perez Hilton Video, and Disturbing Ariana Grande Appearance, with Glenn Greenwald, Plus Surrogate Fights to Protect Baby | Ep. 1375

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

Megyn Kelly is joined by Glenn Greenwald, host of “System Update” on Substack, to discuss Cambridge professor Jason Arday resigning after mounting plagiarism accusations and lies piling up, him continuing to play the victim and lean on claims of racism, how Arday and his supporters allegedly used accusations of racism to silence critics questioning his credentials, the role elite institutions played in protecting Arday, Ariana Grande's disturbing new music video and increasingly concerning appearance, questions about who is enabling this situation, Perez Hilton's horrifying livestream before he was hospitalized, how a nonstop life on the internet may have contributed to the crisis, Whoopi Goldberg's claim that she shares the struggles of working-class Americans despite earning millions each year, Martha Stewart's swipe at Meghan Markle after Markle's attempts to build a lifestyle brand, and more. Then McKenna West, surrogate mother, her lawyer, Lincoln Wilson, and Lila Rose of Live Action, joins to discuss West's fight against an attempt to force her to have an abortion after the baby was diagnosed with a heart defect, the legal battle over parental rights and the surrogacy contract, and more.   Greenwald- https://greenwald.substack.com/ West- https://www.givesendgo.com/help-mckenna-fight-for-baby-gabriels-lif Rose- https://www.liveaction.org/ Wilson- https://first-fourteenth.com/team/lincoln-davis-wilson/   Supersure Insurance: Upgrade your business insurance to a year-round SuperAgency at https://Supersure.com/Megyn Byrna: Go to https://Byrna.com or your local Sportsman's Warehouse today. Relief Factor: Reclaim your mobility and celebrate your freedom from aches this year by grabbing your $17.76 3-week QuickStart at https://ReliefFactor.com or by calling 800-4-RELIEF. DailyLook: https://dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code MEGYN for 50% off your first order.     Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKelly Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShow Instagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShow Facebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at New East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly show. Oh, we've got a lot to get to today. This is going to be a good show. But before we get to the news, I want to tell you about the latest episode that we are releasing right now on our MK members-only section, which you can join on our YouTube.com. slash Megan Kelly. If you're on your computer, I contacted Steve Krakauer this morning. He's our executive producer. And I was like, Steve, I can't figure out how to join this. How are our viewers going to figure

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We have now episode two of our documentary about our show. our audience, and our tour. And this documentary episode is called Fight for Female. In it, we bring you the full story of the gender madness in America, including our journey, our journey on the topic. I think yours and mine, because we've been through this together for six years now. In this particular video, we start back in my time at Fox

and how, to be honest, I just had it dead wrong, including with Dr. Keith Ablo. Here's a trailer. Dr. Avlo, I've read your piece. Do you really believe that children are going to turn transgender? Dr. Avlo said it would not be a good idea for Chas Bono to be on this show. It could trigger some elements of a social contagion, and I mocked him. We really don't know how these behaviors influence people when they are mainstreamed and celebrated.

I wish I had listened to him. I wish we all had listened to him. It just blew up. Dysphoria diagnoses increased by 1,500 percent. Hi. It turned around and it was everywhere. Tuck-friendly swimsuits that allows trans people to conceal their private parts. You referred to people with a capacity for pregnancy.

Would that be women? Your line of questioning is transphobic. Oh my God, this is not what I thought it was. And then we just opened the flood. to learning more and more, more, more and more. Men will always swim 8 to 12% faster than women. People are being harmed, and a lot of people can't speak about it. How old were you when you got your double mastectomy?

I was 15. It happened just after my sophomore year ended. I still get emotional. I think of it. I see the harm. I see so much of the harm. Harm is ubiquitous. Is there any chance of you to defend that ball? No, I seriously had no time. The girls competing, they are not okay with this. That stuff does really do.

damage. You had to change in a locker room with him. The first time that we became aware we would be undressing next to this six foot four, 22-year-old man, fully intact, was when we were inches away, fully exposing himself. Oh my gosh. Their inclusion means men get to punch women in the face for entertainment. We can see it's a man. Stop gaslighting us. It is beyond time to stand up to the trans lobby that means to deprive women of their spaces and rights. This is not an issue that we can be silent on. Our children are literally being sterilized. It's not about empathy or being nice or any of that anymore. It's war. It's on. Those people who are hurting our kids are the enemy, and we have to defeat them. So you can see in that trailer that there are brand new interviews

with me, with some of our teammates, our producers and so on behind the scenes. The first two episodes are posted there right now. You can join to watch the full episode and all of our behind the scenes content. YouTube.com slash Megan Kelly. If you're on your laptop or your computer, but if you're on your phone, you've got to go through the app, the YouTube app, and then you'll see the join button. Okay, let's turn to the news. We have got updates today on Perez Helton. Did you see what happened with him the other night? I was sitting in my house and could not believe my eyes, could not believe the videos that were circulating from TikTok of Perez in what was obviously a mental health breakdown. It was shocking. TikTok is apologizing for not having

listened. I guess it's automated, like, sensor saw that this was something deeply disturbing that should not go out. And it looks like a human may have overruled the automation and allowed it for far too long. Where Perez Hilton, who is this celebrity blogger, he's, you know, he kind of reminds me of a Joan Rivers type, like very brutal in his take downs of these celebrities, unsparing, but entertaining. You know, I mean, we've always had these types in our society. And they're, I don't want to say harmless because they're not. I know a lot of people do get hurt by this kind of commentary, but to me, they're relatively harmless. I just kind of think there's, there's a role for this person in our society. And if you're a celebrity, you have to learn how to just

shrug it off and say, he's like a shit stirrer. That's a thing we have. Whatever. That's a judgment for individuals to make. But he had looked like a suicide attempt on camera. And we'll get into the details of I've got a lot of thoughts on this actually, even though I don't have a lot of thoughts on Perez Hilton himself. I mean, of course, I know who he is. I've followed him for many years, just loosely being in the same general business, which is on camera work for media, very different neighborhoods of that world. But I'm so deeply disturbed by it. So in any event, we'll talk about it in just a bit. There's also some growing concern today about pop star and actress Ariana Grande and her well-being, with her inner circle reportedly exploring treatment options now that broke today for the 33-year-old.

will explain. And Jason Ardey, we've been telling you about him for two weeks now. The youngest black professor in the history of the University of Cambridge has now resigned. He has resigned amid his, it's not just a plagiarism scandal now. It is a scandal involving every single aspect of his biography and whether one word of it is true. And this scandal is, it's well beyond this guy at this point. It is about all of the people, the elite academics at Cambridge and elsewhere, not to mention the woke

Upper West Side types, all white women online, who just dug in and defended him at every turn, notwithstanding the glaring red flags all over his resume. What is wrong with a system

that A hires a guy like this and then B, when serious, serious smoke starts arising off of his resume, no one will see the fire. No one will even look to see if there's a fire. In fact, what we're now learning is that this guy, Jason Arde, was attacking the people who said, hey, I see smoke. There could be danger. A lot of smoke by calling the police on them. It's like somebody says, hey, your house may be on fire. I see smoke and you call the police on them. You're harassing me. You're being mean to me.

And the police would say you're a lunatic if you did that in real life. But what happened in the UK was the police started going after journalists who were trying to report on the fact that this guy seemed like he was a massive fraud and was in the midst of defrauding students at Cambridge, Cambridge administrators, though I have no empathy for them as victims because they were complicit. it, but it's crazy how the system worked together to protect him. Let me ask you if you are not black and autistic, do you think they would have done the same for you? Now there are questions about whether he even is autistic. I think he is black. I think that is a piece of his bio

that is held up and it is the explanation for virtually every question I just asked. Joining me now today. The first guest in the history of the Megan Kelly show, Glenn Greenwald, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and host of System Update on Substack. When you sign your insurance policy for some brokers, that's the finish line. Handshake, commission, done. Then you may not hear from them again until it's time for renewal. But your business runs all year, and so do the gaps and the risk, which is why I want to tell you about super sure. If your company has more than 25 employees, whether you're the owner, CFO, or HR manager, it can be too complex to just buy a policy online.

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and know what actually needs protecting. Go to supershure.com slash Megan, one super agency, one powerful platform, all your policies in one place. Go to super sure.com slash Megan, paid for by SuperSure insurance agency LLC, a licensed insurance agency. Glenn, great to see you, my friend. This is a great story. I always feel like I'm at home here. Yeah, yeah, it is amazing. Go ahead.

Right, Jason Arde. Yes, you're our godfather, official podfather godfather. And the thing about, so there's a lot about this Jason Ardey that just came out overnight. So Cambridge dug in to the very last second. Late yesterday, it came out and said, okay, we've begun an investigation. We've had a few things come up that even we now have begun an investigation in particular. Okay, it started off at 1.40 p.m. Eastern. They said, we have opened an investigation following new information about his academic qualifications and honorary appointments.

they were aware of a number of ongoing complaints about academic misconduct, which are being handled. We're also aware that Jesus College in Cambridge will be taking their own steps in relation to some of these matters. I think that's where he worked. That was like the division in which he worked. And then within less than two hours later, he resigned. And I've got to read you some of the resignation post because it's so galling, Glenn. It is so galling. Uh, okay, dear colleagues, it's with profound sadness. I write to resign with immediate effect from my position at the University of Cambridge and Jesus College.

That sounds weird. Jesus college? Is it Jesus? Is it, whatever? Okay, I don't know Cambridge. To become the youngest black professor in the university's history was something I could scarcely have imagined as a child growing up with a diagnosis of autism. Uh-huh, we get it. Unable to speak until I was 11 years old. Um, the thousands celebrated not simply my, appointment, but what it represented, that talent, perseverance, and hope can triumph over even the greatest adversity. Well, don't be so modest, Professor Arde. Sadly, the year since my appointment have also been marked by an unrelenting level of public scrutiny and personal attack. While criticism is an inevitable part of academic life, what I have experienced has gone far beyond scholarly disagreement. The relentless, again there's that word, accusations, speculation, and public commentary have taken a profound toll on me and those I love. I have tried to continue because I believe deeply in the values of higher ed and rigorous scholarship, yada, yada, yada. But there comes a point

when the personal cost becomes too great. I have a family. I want to be present for them. I want to reclaim some peace, some privacy, some semblance of an ordinary life. I no longer wish to feel as though I am living under a constant spotlight where every aspect of my life is subject to public examination and judgment. Okay, first of all, this is not how this goes, sir. You don't make yourself a star by going on all these podcasts and doing all these interviews and writing books and doing lectures and then say, oh, the scrutiny of the media glare. It's too bright. Wait, he goes on finishing up here. Okay, how we should not see his resignation. It should not be mistaken for an acceptance of the narratives that have surrounded me.

It is simply the decision of someone who has reached the limits of what any person should reasonably be expected to endure. This is not the end of my work. It is simply the end of this chapter. I need time to heal. I need time to simply be myself again. And when that time comes, I will return, stronger, wiser, and with the same determination that has always defined my journey, There is so much more work to do, and I look forward to doing it alongside so many of you in the years ahead. For now, however, I ask only for understanding, for compassion, and for the space to begin again. Glenn, we will be here for the next hour discussing the many frauds that this man has perpetrated on us. It is not one lie.

It's not two. It's not small lies. it's massive lies on every piece of his origin story and biography, his books, his publications, his interviews, his scholarly work across the gamut. And what we get here is self-pity, no responsibility taken, no apology, just playing the victim. Your thoughts on the rise and fall of, quote, Professor Jason Arde. Yeah, you know, it's when you, when you, When I learned that we were going to be talking about this story, I had a couple of points that I thought were kind of interesting about the dynamics that led to them. But then when you read the letter, I feel like I have to start with that.

It is so mind-boggling that somebody who is facing, as you said, it's not just like one charge of plagiarism that he denies. There's a long litany of very serious, non-trivial questions about whether anything he has ever said about his life story that became such an integral part of his academic status. about his scientific work, about his written work. It seems like huge parts of it are just false and fabricated, including things like I ran eight marathons in 10 days. And yet he's so incapable. And I think this is a very broad pathology, probably one of the worst ones plaguing, you know,

30 marathons in 35 days. Yeah, 30. 30 marathons in 35 days. And by the way, I was actually looking into it, he alleged that on the 21st day, he fell and broke his leg, but managed to complete the next nine marathons on a broken leg. Yeah, I mean, so, but so that's the thing is it's like, if you're faced with the litany of accusations, it's highly likely that some of them are going to be at least somewhat true. You've made mistakes. There isn't a peep, an iota of responsibility taken for things that he admits that.

he did. Maybe he could say they weren't as serious to justify his dismissal. There's zero. It's just pure victimhood. People are persecuting me. People are after me. I can no longer take after everything I've been through this kind of scrutiny that means that I want to go to my family. And I think this is a broader pathology that large institutions, you see it with COVID and Fauci and all these people who won't accept even an isolated case of error. So that is the thing that jumps out. And I think also in this context, so much of what happened, obviously, is that he's part of multiple victim groups. In fact, he kind of hit the jackpot. And those people in particular are never acquired to accept a possibility or blame because they're given victimhood status. That means whatever

they did is excusable, which is actually a very condescending and patronizing way of treating people for marginalized groups. But the thing is making, this is what you were, you kind of alluded to. it's not like this is just some, you know, mid-level or low-level community college. This is Oxford. And apparently all of this just slipped by as he's, oh, Cambridge, right, as he, you know, ascended up the ladder. And why? Why did that happen? And I think obviously a reason is, is that they really were enamored of this story, which a lot of people like at first of, you know, a story of somebody who comes from very difficult circumstances and, and succeeds. But in this case, It has to do with his race.

It has to do with his background. It has to do with his immigrant status. And it just becomes hands off. Like, oh, we're not going to challenge him. We don't want to seem like we're racist or we're against people with this biography succeeding in our universities. So much of what's wrong with our institutions and our culture is evident in this story. Oh, my gosh. It's really, it's so telling when you go through it all.

And we're going to get to that in a second. I want to talk about just a couple, just a couple of the lies. the Free Beacon, which has also been doing great. A lot of people have been doing great work on this, including the Free Beacon. And they, he's got a memoir coming out or a book. He's got a book coming out. And they report that an initial version of his book, published by Simon & Schuster, and his speaker bio with Simon and Schuster, because I guess he speaks for them too,

stated that he has been a prolific fundraiser. I told the audience about this yesterday, raised over 5.5 million pounds for 80 national charities over a 20-year period. And he says, including, this is how he did it, among other ways, including by running 30 marathons in 35 days, nine of which were allegedly with a broken leg, 300 miles in three days, and 600 miles in six days. Simon and Schuster quietly edited our day's bio at some point between May 19th and July 24th, 2025, 2025, Glenn, to remove the exact amount of money raised by our day and to omit any mention of the running feet. So this is very interesting because somebody went to him and said, you raised over 5.5 million pounds for 80 charities over 20 years.

Like, that's actually quite a lot. How did you do that? And then the story started to change to, well, there were a lot of people involved. And I can't give you their names because everyone signed an NDA because because people are so protective of not letting anyone know about their charitable work. Okay. Like that's not a thing where somebody's like, we're all going to run for children's cancer and are going to raise a million dollars. Everyone sign NDAs, not disclosing our names. So that, okay.

So that got removed. And then I did look this up about the running because I don't know anything about running. I don't run. But it sounds completely not credible. All right, so here's what I found. If he were able to do 600 miles in six days, this would put him among the world's top athletes. He would be a household name in the running community.

These are considered elite ultra-distance runners, and the community, as you will see if you look online, is extremely skeptical. No one has ever heard of this man. And it's a rather small circle of people who can do. this and have done this. In fact, the world record, world record is 650 miles in six days. It was done on a flat circuit with a large support team and medical help on 24-7 standby. One of the people in this circle quoted online said, it would be a miracle if this guy, Ardei, managed to do this in just street races. He says he ran from one London city to another, And that's how he said it would be a miracle.

And the addendum that at least one of these publications made was to change the six days to 12. Okay, he did 600 miles and 12. That also sounds like complete bullshit. And he always seems to be folding in some injury. It's not enough for him to complete the feat, like allegedly 30 marathons in 30 days. he's got to do it, or 35 days, he's got to do it on a broken leg. Then yesterday we talked about how he said he got his PhD in under two and a half years. And when he went to defend his dissertation, he had just gotten over or just gotten treated for a brain tumor and also some sort of

embolism in his lung or lung infarction. He had multiple physical problems and yet he sat there, Glenn and he defended that dissertation and did so well that they gave him his degree. And not only that, okay, listen to this. Listen to this. Benjamin Ryan, who's been doing good job reporting on this, says, in the scene in Jason Arde's memoir in which he defends his thesis, which I think would have been the master's thesis, one level down, the reviewers absolutely tear it to shreds, sending Arde into a panic attack. So in the hallway, Arde's mentor smacks him to get him. to calm down. He returns, finishes his defense, and gets his PhD. Okay, so he doesn't mean a thesis. I guess he means dissertation. The panel requests some changes, but otherwise passes him.

Does anyone believe that some mentor stood outside of the PhD defense and smacked this black autistic professor in the face? The lies are everywhere. Yeah, I mean, and so brazenly so, right? There's obviously something pathological with him. He built his entire biography, his entire life, story based on a series of endless eyes. And I think people who do that get a kind of addiction. Like every story has to be shocking and remarkable. But this goes back to that letter that you read that you asked me about first, which I didn't talk about this part. He made it seem as though all he is is this kind of austere scholar who just wants to delve into intellectual endeavors and research and study and do scholarship. And all these people, because of who he is, are attacking him and

scrutinizing him and he never bargained for that. He just wants to now escape it. The reality is they turned him into a major media star. They promoted him endlessly. The reason he got this book deal is because he has become an extremely talked about figure in the media. If you're not somebody who wants media scrutiny, you don't go and write a book and then go on a major book tour about what it is that you're doing and saying. They marketed him aggressively. And clearly, because of who he is, because of his demographics, and this is something that happens in universities all the time. I mean, it's just such a violation of meritocracy. They'll just pass people along because they're afraid in left liberal culture of investigating or scrutinizing people who are in one of

those protective classes, or in his case, kind of the most protective class because there's no story more kind of heart-tugging or tragic than his, even though it's all lie. And that's the issue. It's like he, okay, he's obviously someone with pathological lying and mental issues. How did these universities, again, the leading academic universities in the world miss all this, promote these fake stories when obviously all the evidence was not that hard to find because some of it is just on its face preposterous like those races. Here's to your point how a professor at Cambridge defended him. Professor Bhaskar Vera, who serves as the pro vice-chance.

Chancellor of Education at the University of Cambridge describes our day as an exceptional scholar. Well, I mean, exceptional for all the wrong reasons, but that's not how he meant it. Quote, he will contribute significantly to Cambridge's research in this area and addressing, he's talking about all of his writings about DEI and so on, addressing the underrepresentation of people from socioeconomically disadvantaged. backgrounds, especially those from black, Asian, and other minority ethnic communities. This is what he's touting as what this guy will bring to Cambridge, that he will address the underrepresentation of people from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds, especially those

from black Asian and other minority ethnic communities. He's saying it with a bunch of dressed up words. He's black, and we don't have enough blacks here. That is what he's saying right there. Then he goes on, quote, his experiences highlight the barriers faced by many. underrepresented groups across higher education and especially at leading universities. Cambridge has a responsibility to do everything it can to address this by creating academic spaces where everyone feels they belong. His experience highlights the barriers faced by many underrepresented groups. That's all. They said it. They hired him because of his skin color. They didn't care about whether he was a legitimate scholar or academic.

And then when the questions were raised, he and they played the race card at every turn, trying to make all of his critics look and feel and sound like bigots for questioning the lies they were being told. It's shocking to me. There's one guy in particular whose name is Nathan Koffness. He's a free speech advocate. He was fired by Cambridge College. And this guy wrote the... this substact post that got this started saying, I think this guy plagiarized over a hundred different times in his academic works. And the university turned around and said, you're racist. And you've been a racist for a long time. And therefore, we dismiss everything. Now we find out that Ardei himself got not one, but two different police investigations started against his critics. There were at least two

different people who raised questions about him that he turned around and got investigated by the cops. One is, I have so many, so many articles in front of me. Hold on. I will get you the names. But they've now spoken out. And one, one was investigated by the police. He only found out when the police admitted it, that his last name is Grove, when the police admitted that they had been conducting an investigation against him for. four months for the nerve of looking into Professor Arde. Listen here to Sot 1 with this. This is the police commissioner, Sergeant Mark Rowley, apologising.

Got to challenge you on this one. The Metroland Police is accused of press censorship for investigating a journalist who tried to expose a Cambridge professor who's alleged to committed plagiarism. Jack Grove, a report of the Times higher education. A four-month investigation. Why was that necessary, Commissioner? We dropped the ball on that one, Nick. That's not sort of beat about the bush.

The report came in, I think it was of harassment or some crime like that. It should have been screened out earlier on as not requiring investigation. When you said it's screened out, it should have been one phone call. No further action. Nothing requiring police action. It's a sat on an officer's workload and he made a couple of phone calls, which in hindsight, we shouldn't have done that. So big organisation will make the odd mistake. Apology to the reporter involved?

Yeah, we shouldn't have made that call to him and said that. No, you shouldn't. That was Jack Grove that you investigated. Scotland Yard investigated him trying to expose, as he was trying to expose a plagiarism scandal, told him to stop asking a Cambridge professor questions, meaning our day. He worked for the Times Higher Education, T-H-E. He was accused of harassment after he emailed a series of questions to the professor, Glenn. That was his sin. Mr. Grove said officers told him to stop contacting the professor because the professor's mental health had been affected by the questions. Then Arde also hired the law firm Carter Ruck, which suggested in a letter to T.H.E. That it's apparent attack on Ardei may be racially motivated.

And that wasn't even the only time. He also reported a different academic critic to the police. That guy's name was Dr. David Harris, Professor Emeritus at Plymouth Marjan University, and one of the first scholars to raise concerns about this guy, Ardee is a villain. He's a villain, Glenn. You know, Megan, one of the funny things I've ever read in my life, and I still laughed about it to this day when I remember it, is that when Elizabeth Warren went to, was hired by Harvard Law School, there started to be these articles protesting the lack of women of color or people of color on the faculties of our best law schools. And there was this survey and this law review article that said, things are sort of starting to get better. And there was a footnote saying Harvard law, for example, recently hired a, Elizabeth Warren, the first ever faculty member of Native American origin, and she got counted as a woman of color at Harvard that showed that the numbers were getting better. There was a time in

like 2020 when everybody understood the absolute insanity of wokeness, and mostly we've kind of moved beyond the most extreme versions. But in these academic institutions, where they came from basically, where they were created and disseminated, they thrive almost as strongly. And What this basically is, it's so obvious, is that in part these people who made him into an academic star are now the people who are supposed to investigate it. And they don't want to admit that they were part of these gross errors because it's not just him. They'd have to explain themselves. But the much bigger part is so obvious. It's like the media and Fauci, by the way.

It's like the media and Fauci right now. Totally. Exactly. Exactly. And so many other instances as well. But the bigger part of it, which, again, I don't necessarily find. there anything wrong or it's not like ill intention. If somebody kind of finds it refreshing or nice or interesting that somebody from a very disadvantaged background

overcomes all that and gets to Cambridge. Because usually they're from rich families and they have a certain path. And if someone can do that, but it has to be true, right, in order to be celebrated. And because it was somebody who was black, because it was somebody from his background, instantly they started ascribing to the people who were investigating it racist motives, even though the racist motives were the people who were defending him for no reason other than his race. And that's always the projection. You know, it's like those are the people who are thinking, this is a black person.

Other people were thinking this is a celebrated scholar who's getting more famous, but seems to have a whole history of lies. And he would not have been defended. factor here, but it's a factor that helped him at every turn. It's a factor for those defending him because he was black. Exactly. Right? He was promoted because he was black and then defended knee-jerk defense.

That guy, Nathan Kauffness, again, he's a former Cambridge professor who was one of the first people to detect a fraud here. He came out on X and said, game over now that Ardei resigned. Now I'd like to hear from the Cambridge University administrators who said this was a, quote, vile campaign against a world-class scholar and said that Arde had been cleared by the investigations of any wrongdoing. They said a victim of a vile campaign to undermine his credibility, which must stop. That's what Cambridge said. They have lost all credibility. They have humiliated themselves. I got to get to Eli Steele, who we love. He's the son of Shelby Steele and is a filmmaker

in his own right, one of the early guests, not quite as early as Glenn Greenwald, our podfather. I laid the foundation for him. Totally. He said Glenn Greenwald goes on this show. Why wouldn't I? I mean, I'm in. So Eli and his dad, Shelby, are very outspoken on the issue of Ray Shelby Steel has been an academic scholar in the vein of Thomas Sol, very well respected and was respected by the Academy as well,

until he started as a black man to write truths about the issues we're discussing here. And then he was kicked out of that polite society because he wasn't saying the right things anymore. Glenn Lowry has a similar story about what's happened to him. Carol Swain, she's got an identical story to that. Glenn wasn't kicked out of academia, but it had received blowback. Okay, here's what Eli posted. He said, personally, I couldn't care less about Jason Arde. If anything, he's a kind of victim here, though one that bears tremendous responsibility for his

actions. I say victim because his stories and the work he did without rigorous examination that one would expect of a top school like Cambridge, because his stories and the work that he did went without rigorous examination that one would expect there. They did this because our day's black and to check their diversity poster boy's story would run the risk of them being charged with racism. The whites wanted their innocence, however false it was. And it is these whites who claim to care about black excellence. And that is the cruelty here. Now listen to this part. When Cambridge shielded Ardei from the kind of scrutiny that nearly all professors face, they did not defend the remaining integrity of academia.

Instead, they only confirmed the ugly stereotypes that are whispered about black scholars, that they cannot do the work and that the bar must be lowered. This is the price that blacks who choose the path of merit must pay for the cowardice of the weak who play the black power white guilt coin. So good, so true. Yeah, and this is, you know, this is something, I think you and I have talked about this before. This is something embedded in left-wing culture that masquerades is defending marginalized groups, but in reality has a very kind of paternalistic view of them.

I remember 10 years ago when I was at The Intercept, we were talking about having journalists participate in the comments section because it builds community. And people came along and said, that's easy for you to say, but we have people. of color who are journalists and females who are journalists and the comment sections can be really vitriolic and they shouldn't be expected to confront that as though women people of color can't handle critical or harsh comments on the on the internet only white people can and they didn't realize how actually racist that is and there's so many examples like that where they'll try provide this kind of theory that women are not really strong enough to withstand the normal

rigors of political discourse and political argument. And here, this is exactly what this is all based on, the idea that if you have a black scholar, academic star and somebody starts scrutinizing their record, it can't be because they're doing it for the same reason, academic records get scrutinized all the time because they might have air. in them. They might have misled. There might be plagiarism. No, it has to be racism. And this is, as you say, this is what demeans the accomplishments of actual black scholars. They are saying basically improving all the time, we have black scholars climb the ladder, not because they're great scholars, but because they're black and that's what we want. And then you have, you know, black scholars, and you'll hear

this from black people all the time who say, the fact that they're doing that demeans my own accomplishments because people assume that I too climb the ladder of success, not because I had the merits or accomplishments to do it, but because I was black and it was kind of grease for me and nobody really stood in my way. It's actually, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, made me sick for so long. Yes, yes, go back. I mean, I guarantee you go back and take a look at Thomas Sol's early academic writings. You're not going to find a bunch of plagiarism and fraud in his bio. You're just not. You're not going to find that with Glenn Lowry either. It's take any Supreme Court justice and see how they did in law school or what papers they wrote or their law review articles that they wrote for their journal.

They're not going to be full of plagiarism and like white, black, female or male. This is not a thing for true academics. True academics as they're rising up the ladder, understand the rules perfectly and follow them. That's generally how people who are very, very successful in these fields anyway, maybe not in tech, get successful. That's how they do it. They play by the rules. They work harder. They have a need for approval that actually they turn around in this world and make really work for them.

And they choose industries where that's perfect. You know, you can get promoted based on pleasing others with excellent work. You know, like there are a lot of industries where that's still a thing. And that's a great thing. This guy was a fraud and managed to sort of come in sideways to this industry because he had certain qualifications that women like his boss. at Cambridge, who looks like a fool, really enjoyed. Do we have this lady? She's, yeah, we got her. You play the sound bite. Here she is talking to him. Professor Jason Ardeh was diagnosed with autism

spectrum disorder at the age of three. He couldn't speak until he was 11 and read or write until he was 18. Therapists predicted he would need full-time assistance throughout his life, how wrong they were and now Jason is days away from achieving another ambition. Hi. Here's his new boss at Cambridge. Part of his research will look at new ways to make higher education more accessible for everyone. What can we do to ensure that this isn't a marked appointment in five years' time? How can this become the norm?

We've listened to the voices of our black scholars and our black students and some of it has not been easy. to hear, to be honest, but we're able to face up to some of the structural issues that people face. There will be those. I think this is a tokenistic appointment. What are your thoughts on this? The Board of Electors on your interview day were absolutely unanimous. We are so lucky to have you. You are the best in the world in terms of the research that you do. Oh my God. Glenn. Her name is professor Hillary Kremlin, C-R-E-M-I-N. You can, it's just, it's oozing off of her, this condescension, you know, this boot-licking,

which she would do for no, she would do for no other new professor there. He gets to cross-examine her on how this is not going to be seen as tokenism. It is tokenism. So that's how it will be seen. And you've got professors at Cambridge running around on the record saying that's exactly why you were hired. As for the, it was unanimous, what an amazing. exceptional scholar you are.

Here's just a couple of new evidence posts. This is from the UK Times last night. All right. It's important to offer the actual examples so people understand this is not just made up shit that he was a fraud. His stuff was made up, but our criticisms aren't. This is, again, the UK Times,

they find their analysis of his writings find his assertions literally impossible in instance after instance. So this is, okay, one of his papers. In one of his papers, he quotes a Latin American academic as saying, quote, my understanding of English is improving daily. Sometimes I struggle to articulate clearly and accurately what I would like to say to the health care professionals provided at university. Nice. Okay, kind of anodyne, whatever.

There was just one issue, reports the paper. Three years prior, he had attributed this exact same quote to an Asian female undergraduate, not a Latin American academic. The exact quote, Glenn. We talked about this one yesterday about how he gave a webinar in July 2020, talking about a paper that he was about to publish. And he referred to a participant who took their own life, reading out this person's quote detailing the violence of these racialized cultures in the academic world. Then he did publish the paper. He used near identical quotes. And weirdly, there was no reference to this person committing suicide.

Now, it seems like kind of an important detail where you're talking about the violence of racialized. cultures in the academic world, why would you not then talk about the fact in your written paper the man wound up taking his own life seems relevant, no? And then in one paper titled Attempting to Break the Chain, Reimagining Inclusive Pedagogy and Decolonizing the curriculum within the Academy. He says he interviewed a sample of 17 participants, but a breakdown of their racist genders and jobs adds up to 18. Well, okay, anybody can make a mistake like that, right? Maybe he was just off by one. Further oddities appear they write. He quotes, distinct academics, but says he only interviewed three. He quotes five mixed heritage participants,

but interviewed only four. He attributes a quote to participant number 21 in a study that only interviewed 17 or 18. Similar issues appear in five studies. Pick a paper, any paper, and you will find it littered with these so-called innocent errors, Glenn. Yeah, and there's what I mean, Megan, And they weren't just saying like, oh, look at how amazing it is that he made it to the faculty. They were trying to promote him as some kind of like generationally brilliant scholar doing the kind of scholarly work that very few academics ever are able to actually achieve. So in order to, you would think that if you actually were an academic and you were heaping praise on somebody's scholarly work that way, you would have a very in-depth understanding of it. clearly they just looked at him. They thought it was a nice story.

It probably word of mouth about how brilliant he is. And then they just went with it. And I think, again, if you go back to any faculty or any campus these days, and again, I think we have passed some of the worst, you know, woke insanities, nothing there has changed, if anything, it's regressed. And so this idea that there's some woman using that kind of condescending tone saying, no, you are one of the most brilliant appointees. This is obviously such a fraud.

And I actually think that academic institutions are important. I think having great universities is a really important thing for society. It is so tragic what has been done to our universities, the way in which the cheapest, just kind of most corrupted politics have been, have contaminated every component of hiring and rules for discourse and how classrooms are conducted. And again, I mean, if Cambridge can shoot this guy up the ladder, despite zillions of red flags that basically they chose not to see because they thought it was racist to investigate him, it's such a sad indictment on our major Western institutions of universities. Completely. I want to tell you that. So now some of the people are actually questioning now this origin story, whether he really did have autism, whether it was Asperger's, as he later claimed it was. whether he really was nonverbal entirely until he was 11,

whether he couldn't read or write one word until age 17 or 18. Of course, there's reason to doubt all of this because he's told way too many lies to count. He's obviously a serial fabulous, a pathological liar. That seems clear. Now as we speak, Benjamin Ryan, who I just mentioned, independent journalist, he posts the following online. does Jason Arde actually have epilepsy? Yet another disability he claims he's been laboring under. In his memoir, Jason Ardei claims to have developed epilepsy

after being savagely beaten at a bus stop at age 18. He claims he wears a medical alert bracelet that tracks his whereabouts. But I can find no evidence in any photo that he wears such a bracelet. So it does make you wonder whether that too is a lie. Yesterday we touched on this briefly, Glenn, but he also has been since this story broke and what tracks with his resignation letter, you know, poor me, I need to find some peace.

It's too high a price. This has been relentless. Spend time with my family. Yes. He also seems to have been making up stories of a harassment that he claims have broken since this story broke, which that seems right on brand for him, right?

Like now allegedly the evil racist, who are everywhere are getting even racist-y all over him. He claims to have been threatened and assaulted multiple times. A panic button was installed in his office after he claimed this, after the alleged first encounter with a masked assailant that weirdly was not reflected on any of the CCTV covering the university. And he claims to have pushed the button, but no one came. So Cambridge was now ignoring the panic button calls of its favored

black professor who had already said he was attacked. But he pressed the panic button and they were like, eh, similar to how the palace told Megan Markle when she said, I'm about to kill myself that they couldn't help her and she'd have to walk away and deal with it on her own. Yeah, go find some help. But don't you think the same day of the second attack. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm almost done.

Same day of the second attack in quotes, he continued with his working day and conducted a PhD Viva for a student. less than two hours later. Not to mention the intruder was not picked up on any campus camera. So these are two alleged incident. And then he claimed that a severed pig's head was sent to his home, that he immediately threw it away. He had no evidence of it, Glenn, but trust him.

Someone sent a severed pigs' head to him and only told the police about it months later, but then claimed that they did conduct an investigation, the guardian, because all of this is being dismissed as a right-wing press operation, the guardian. Okay, that's basically as left as the intercept. The Guardian went to all the butchers in town. No one knew anything about a severed pig's head. Didn't sell one, didn't none of that. And went to the police who said, absolutely not.

We have never investigated such a thing. This guy watched too many episodes of The Godfather. He believed the thing with the horse's head in the bed. He changed into a pig's head outside of his front door. But now this is a defense mechanism. And he's suggesting like suicidal thoughts. The university, others have come out saying, saying they're worried he's going to commit suicide. Stop, back off. They're playing that card,

Glenn, as though we're the villains for looking into this. It's really the worst expression of left-link culture, the thing that has alienated so many people. I mean, if you go, I was just listening to all of the different examples you cited of where he either lied or seems to have made claims about something that happened to him that have no evidence. Each one of them, what they have in common is it's a form of victimhood, right? Like even the autism. Yes. Even all these diseases he claims he has, these attacks on him, because victimhood, this kind of victimhood is the currency of how you get social capital in academic circles, an academic institution, and left-wing circles. You know, I don't know how often you interact with people in Gen Z. My kids are basically like kind of on the border of Gen Z.

So many of their friends who are in Gen Z constantly have all these ailments, you know, that people have never really heard of before. it's partly a way of excusing your failures or excusing anything that's happened or generating sympathy. But part of it is just like victimhood is the thing that everybody craves and is taught to crave because that's the thing that generates the most benefits. And it seems like he's just a very extreme case of where he built his entire biography on the most extreme victimhood possible and the universities ate it up. And so did the media that was turning him into a star. I think that's what is a big part of what's happening here. I think he's only 37 years old now.

And in that time, he wants us to believe that he had autism asperger's, epilepsy, nonverbal to 11, couldn't read her right until 18, was also dyslexic, that he suffered a brain tumor, some sort of lung infarction, that he had a broken leg as he was running 30 miles and 30, 30, 30 marathons and 30 days, that he was beaten up so badly had a bus stop, that he got epilepsy, that he was attacked on the University of Cambridge and threatened multiple times, but CCCD never caught it. And that now they're dumping severed pigs heads in his yard. I mean, it's beyond. Okay, we got to go. We're coming right back, though. There's much more for Glenn. Don't go away. We'll get to Ariana Grande and Perez Hilton. A lot of thoughts on that.

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to have multiple options when it comes to defense. Try before you buy. Visit burna.com to find a burner dealer partner near you. That's B-Y-R-N-A.com. is back with me now. He is the host of System Update, which you can find on his substack. Okay, Glenn, let's talk about, I guess, we'll do Ariana Grande next. Ariana Grande's people are saying, well, there's a report that concern is growing behind the scenes about her with multiple insiders telling naughty but nice, that's our friend Rob Schuter, that they are quietly exploring treatment options for her. and wellness facilities once she completes her tour later this year.

Rob is like formally on the inside of Hollywood. He represented a lot of very like household names, people who you know just by their first names for many, many years as their PR person. And now he's doing this substack, which is actually very popular, naughty but nice. And he's been on the show a few times and goes on Maureen Calhans, the nerve.

In any event, so this is Rob reporting that concern behind the scenes is growing for her. Multiple insiders telling. Noddy but nice that her inner circles quietly exploring treatment options when she completes her tour. Grande has never said that she has an eating disorder, but you take one look at her, Glenn, and you'd be crazy not to suspect she does. Look at this picture here we are showing where she is skin and bones. I mean, the clavicle, the, just all of the bones on the torso are, protruding above her V-neck dress. Her arms look skeletal. Her faces look skeletal for quite some

time. This is from her most recent musical music video, and I want to show you something. We actually, we started looking into this problem and this report came across her latest music video. It's incredible. Not only does she look incredibly skinny, but in this music video, she murders a panel of judgmental talent scouts and entertainment executives with the chainsaw. Are we, is it just VO, Deb, it's not a sot? Let's, yeah, let's play it. Watch.

Oh, M.G. She is covered in blood. You can see her with a chainsaw hacking off the heads and the bodies of these executives. And their blood is spewing everywhere. she's got she's got problems glenn obviously this woman's got problems and what's really crazy about this report is that they um they reportedly her people reportedly are they're not going to rush her off to um rehab or whatever she's going in for right now they they want to wait they think that she should be allowed to complete her tour and, you know, sort of finish her public appearances. And then,

then they're going to encourage her to go into some sort of wellness program or treatment program. Because let's face it, everyone needs to get paid off of the juggernaut that is Ariana Grande. You know what's amazing to me is that it'd be one thing if she just showed up at some talk show or a word show and her. extremely emaciated condition were noticeable. This happened in a music video that was produced, obviously, with all kinds of money and very well-accomplished people. They could have edited it. They could have, you know, I don't know, covered it up.

Did not, did no one notice that she was, it was like, it wasn't just like, oh, she looks a little thin. It was shocking to watch. She almost looked like an Auschwitz victim, you know, when you've seen them come out and every bone that shouldn't be visible is visible. Yeah, that scene is with that dress. And also they dressed her in a way that made it visible too. So why would they do that?

Now, obviously, I don't know for sure what the eating disorder is. Obviously, people speculate it's anorexia. It could be a different kind of health problem that causes that kind of severe weight loss, but there's clearly something going very wrong. And how many times have we seen that celebrities of this stature who are just constantly working in the public eye, you know, put it, have, as you said, so many people depend on them for all kinds of money and profit, want to keep them, you know, running like a workhorse like they did with Michael Jackson. How many of them end up in these kinds of debilitated conditions?

It's really kind of a sad indictment of our celebrity industry and everything else. But at the end of the day, she's an adult. And it's just very hard to understand how somebody's surrounded by all these management teams and studios and directors could have allowed it to get to this point where not just she saw and that it's her condition, but the whole public saw. Yeah, you know, she's 33 years old now. She was, of course, a former child star. We talked about her last year

when the whole Nickelodeon scandal became household news with that one executive having sexualized every young girl, Jamie Lynn Spears, Ariana Grande, many others who came on Nickelodeon, these young, sweet girls who he tried to turn into soft porn stars. And of course, they were so young,

they didn't realize half the time what he was having them do. Maybe they did realize, I don't know, but either way, it was completely exploitative. And then, of course, there were actual pedophiles running around Nickelodeon as well, actual pedophiles as well.

And she came up at Nickelodeon, and she was one of the girls they asked to do very inappropriate scenes. We have the one cut. I mean, it almost requires a viewer warning. Not really, I'm Nickelodeon, and here's a very young Ariana Grande being completely exploited in SOT 13. Sometimes I wonder if you can get juice from a potato.

Did that air on Nickelodeon? Come on, give up the juice. Yikes. I'm thirsty. In another video, Ariana's pouring water on herself in what seems like a very sexual manner. And people started saying, this feels inappropriate for children. Oh, my God. Alexa Nichols was another one. She came on the show and told us everything. We'll get the episode number if you guys want to go back and watch it. But that was a documentary called Quiet on set. But there's a reason 99% of parents say no to putting their child in front of the camera at a very young age or in front of a microphone, as was done to Justin Bieber, etc. You could not pay me enough money to put my kids in, like, especially in the Hollywood machine.

given everything we know about the just utter immorality and the exploitation that takes place on every last level there and has for decades. And all you have to do is look at the people who became child stars in some way or another. It's almost inevitable that they end up, you know, in a kind of tragic adulthood. I remember one of the times that was on your show,

you talked about you had just seen the Michael Jackson movie and really liked it. I happened to watch it on a plane. I was in the U.S. this week came back. And I watched it as well. And that was the thing that, again, struck me is you take these people and put them to work at the age of 10 and 11. Their whole family depends on their income, major corporations, need them to perform well. That kind of pressure a child is not ill-equipped for it is saying nothing of the fame that goes along with it.

How many child stars have actually ended up doing quite well? There are some, but most of them end up getting out of Hollywood. And I'm sure that's part of it as well. That's the, and that's it. She's the exception that proves the rule. Exactly. She turned out extremely well. But even she took time off, like she went to Yale.

She got out of the business for like 15 years. So, yeah, it's kind of tragic to watch that. Here is a different take. Link Lauren, who's part of our MK Media podcast network and has a great show. He has a different take. And I always love checking in with Link to see he's got his finger on the pulse when it comes to cultural phenoms like Ariana. Here's what he has to say in SOT 15. I got a message this morning from a mom whose daughter went to Ariana Grande's concert

and came home and said she was so sad. She was concerned. She felt like Ariana's energy wasn't there. When millions of her fans are saying we're concerned, we love you, are you okay? Tell us you're okay. She says nothing. But she has her publicists go out there and tell the public, how dare you? How dare you question her?

All of this endless scrutiny. You can't play smart and dumb at the same time. She wants to put out a music video on a Friday, showing off how thin and skinny she is, and then two days later, her team is going to put out a statement saying, how dare you talk about her way? We're the bad guys. We're the bad guys. Don't play me for a fool.

Ariana Grande is a grown-ass woman. I would bet my bottom dollar. That is not how she talks when she's in her business meetings. She's very shrewd. She's very strong. But she wants to play this little petal, this little petal flower character, where she's pulled from piece to piece and she's barely hanging on by a thread.

I think it's all propaganda. I think it's all part of a marketing campaign. I'm just not buying any of it. The name of that song is Petal. But, you know, he may be onto something there, Glenn. I definitely think so. And it reminds me the story we talked about first with that Cambridge academic.

She had been saying for several years now, stop talking about my body, stop talking about the body of female celebrities. it's very degrading, whether you think it's good or bad, it's just not healthy, we shouldn't be doing it. I mean, come on. Hollywood is an industry where your physical appearance plays an absolutely crucial role in pretty much everything. If you don't want people commenting on your physical appearance, don't go into Hollywood. But even if you, you know, are kind of sympathetic to that, we shouldn't be like micromanaging women's bodies or whatever. Sorry, but if you stick a very well-known figure who has millions of fans in front of a, in a, in a movement,

music video that everybody sees and it's actually quite shocking and horrifying to see a human being that thin who's not, you know, suffering from some kind of terminal disease. People are going to talk about it. But you're right. Then they come out as Ling said and he's like, how dare you? This is not a matter for public discussion. Actually, it really is because women like her and the way she looks influences huge numbers of young girls, especially all over the world. And that isn't extremely sickly and unhealthy look. Of course we should be talking about that. And look, I'm sorry.

I was just saying to the team in the break, like if you want to not have anybody comment on your looks, there are so many jobs in which that will absolutely be easy. You know, I worked as a telemarketer before I went to law school. I loved it. It was actually, I made a decent amount of money, and I was not bad. And nobody commented on my looks.

Nobody had a thought on my looks. No one could even see me. It was on the telephone. I could have kept doing something like that. But if you're going to put yourself on camera for a living, you have to expect that some people are going to make comments about your looks. I think the general bargain, most people are thinking, is they either won't comment or to the extent they do comment, the majority of comments will be nice or neutral.

Concern or concerned, not like malicious, but like, yes. I'm worried about her. A certain percentage won't be. Of course. Welcome to the internet. Right. That's life. It's not really a you thing.

It's a life thing. And you really, especially if you're going to be as big as star as Ariana Grande. Like, you're going to have to expect it. Thin, fat. They'd be saying the same things if she were fat. Like, whatever. But her appearance is striking now. It's striking.

When you see somebody's bones protruding, like what's happening with Demi Moore, you have to comment. I mean, it's like, what's, I see. see it. And if you don't call it out, it does feel a little like helping her normalize it, which we definitely do not want with a bunch of young, impressionable women who are her biggest fans. That's what her fan base is, all these young girls. Okay, so this is actually a good lead-in into the Perez Hilton discussion. So Perez Hilton two nights ago went on TikTok

and filmed himself. It was a live stream. and he was sort of riving, semi-dancing on camera covered in blood. He looked like Ariana Grande looked in that video. Exactly, exactly. Right, in terms of the blood coverage. And he had everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah, he had one of those knives that we all used to cut like an uncut loaf of bread,

like a long, you know, 10-inch. blade. I did not see a serrated edge, but there may have been. Before we show you the video, I'm just going to tell you it's disturbing. We're not showing you the raw video. We blurred it, but you can see enough that you get what happened. And here it is. We took the sound out because it's just extra disturbing. He's taking this knife and he's rubbing it across his stomach, his neck, the back of him and he's making sounds that sound

almost sexual while he does it it doesn't it's not exactly like cries of pain to me it sounded almost sexual and I think that's by design

he's trying to make it sound sort of titillating and the soundtrack on what was aired is as follows I'm surprised TikTok lets this stay fuck he yells

you fucking stay, he means online. And he says, ah, ah, as he's cutting himself. Yeah, it hurts, but it feels so good, too. Then this is the part we have to discuss. I'm a fucking parasite loser, he says. This is what you all wanted. Then he goes on to say, you know, it would be interesting to see what happens after you die. Then he has three people join him on his live stream. Maybe this is a show he does, because three other people come on and seem absolutely shocked. They know him. They clearly work with him to see what he's doing. They say, Perez, what the F are you doing? And he says committing suicide. And they say, no, no, no, that's not what we're doing here. And he says, yes, it is. And then they called the authorities.

The authorities came were in, I don't know if we should use the word standoff, but they were in a situation outside the house for quite some time where they thought it would only escalate the situation if they went in. so they must have heard or known something to lead them to that conclusion and eventually did go in after quite some time got him he was alive and brought him to the hospital where he remains his family says that they are relieved he's talking they said he's able to communicate which has given them hope they say information about his condition remains limited he continues to recover now to me Glenn this is like it's very sad and I ask absolutely wish Perez well. And I feel very sad about how he got here and what he did and that he felt that he had no other option but this is obviously the meltdown of a human being. But I also can't help but notice that it is in a way the perfect period at the end of, not the end of a life, but at the end of a chapter, a long chapter of what I hope will be a long

life. And that chapter is life on the internet, life almost solely on the internet, where rather than touching grass and walking through woods and swimming in lakes, you are online all the time doing the lowest thing possible for your spirit, which is viciously, viciously, mocking random celebrities, right? It's fine. I mean, they put themselves out there. Again, as I'm saying, it's their fair game. But Perez Hilton really has made a business of going to the lowest places. Outing various LGBT people, posting naked photos of like Jennifer Lawrence that she did not bless her sanction. He's gone after so many huge celebs so pointedly that it's really impacted them. like Jennifer Aniston called him out, and she's been the subject of nonstop tabloid coverage and so,

but he is the one who got to her. And he's apologized for it many times only to then start doing it again. He's, I'm not trying to demonize Perez in any way. I'm saying this is his journey. And he himself seems to have, you know, he said he found God not long ago. He had a bad case of sepsis and said, I found God. And it's real and he found me. But then he kind of goes back.

And I just think there's a consequence to one's men. mental health in spending your life day after day after day in a toxic industry online where the clicks, the likes and all that are never going to be enough for you. And the vitriol will always feel like it outweighs the kindness. Yeah, I could not agree more. He was one of the kind of who became an internet celebrity through this kind of blog. You know, it was like a blog about celebrities about the entertainment industry, very gossipy, lots of speculative, blind items and stuff, not exactly rewarding or fulfilling work. And as a result, he became very polarizing. So he's not only been on the internet for a long time, he's been doing a kind of work that,

as you say, it's just kind of like the bottom of the barrel. It can't be very rewarding. But then also, it produces a lot of hate from people in Hollywood, from people who think what you're doing is kind of scummy. He's been at the middle of a lot of internet controversies. And when you have a life that is almost entirely emerge from the internet first and then social media, and it doesn't seem like you have much else going on, while I think the internet has been a net plus, social media and people who are just always online, especially in the middle of things that they may not handle very well, right? Like in our profession, you get attacks and negative criticism and insults all the time. That can be pretty vicious.

But you develop a thin skin and it's not really the only thing you're doing. Thick skin. Yeah. Sorry, a thick skin. And you weren't had to deal with it and not take it really personally. He just seems to be the kind of person who was such a childhood. They're not like almost inextricably linked with the worst parts of it. Obviously, I don't know what else is going on in his life.

I unfortunately saw that video before it was a blur. when it first came and it would i don't think i can't remember the last time i've i've seen something so viscerally horrifying i mean that was a state of human existence that is very rare and very difficult to get to and i can't help also as you suggested think that there's a strong component of it that is this social media like just the the the the dregs of the internet in which he's he's resided for so long Yes, yes, one must rescue oneself from that place. As he's spoken out over the years about his depression, which he has admitted has been extreme, severe at times. That was the time for people around him.

And I understand his mother is still in the picture and helps him raise his three kids who he had. They're his biological children who he had via surrogate. He's a gay man. His mother's still around. Like somebody needed to go to him and say, Perez, you got to find a different way to make a living. The internet is not for you. You know, it's, it was Scarlett Johansson, pretty sure, Scarlett Johansson, who when asked, why, why don't you have a big, like, Instagram or online presence said, I'm not strong enough

for that. Like, I'm too tender-hearted. I love that answer. I totally get that. It's not for everyone. This business that we do, certainly, where you're in politics, basically, which is not not beanbag, his business, you know, celebrity commentary can get very ugly to. These PR people are just as vicious as they're, the commentators are and they will cut you. It's not for everyone. And I think somebody needed to go to Perez earlier and say Perez. There are other ways to make a living. You know, he just moved from Las Vegas to Miami, where I guess he grew up. And it's not his real name, but I hope that's the message he walks away with. And I hope he genuinely just unplugs and says, you know what?

The internet is a toxic stew that we are not forced to consume. You know, without invading his privacy and whatever he wants to keep secret, he has the right to, I do think it's worthwhile to try and understand why that happened. Because it's not just that he did something. He was depressed or even ended up killing himself. The state of human existence that he was in that you watched, if you watched that video, that is something, I mean, genuinely terrifying. It's like you have to be pushed very, very far mentally to do what he was doing.

And I do think it's worth trying to figure out whether there's something about social media and the internet and the entertainment industry that and the kind of internet precincts in which he resided for so long that caused that because that was not just a breakdown. That was something. I don't know. I haven't seen anything like that before. No, it was a next level meltdown and cry for help. Yeah. My team sent me the Scarlett Johansson quote. I honestly am too fragile a person to have social media.

I can't. My ego is too fragile. My brain is too fragile. I'm like a delicate flower. I actually really appreciate that. Good for her. God lover. Realizing that.

You know, for like, yeah, for accepting that and not needing the constant attention of social media. I respect that. me too totally um i'm sure it's he is not a delicate flower but it's one of the reasons i think tucker no longer goes on social media because though he's not a delicate flower he doesn't enjoy consuming all the nonsense and the hatred and i think he wants to protect his brain too he doesn't want to be like misguided or misled uh and he wants to curate his sources of information more but i just quickly i don't think our brains are constructed or designed or our mental health is to have this endless, you know, continuous, intense receipt of extremely

hateful and critical attacks on your character, on the things you said. I do think protecting yourself from that is important because I just don't think our brains are designed to handle that well. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I get asked that question all the time. Like, how do you take it? How do you take it? And I'd say the truth, which is I don't enjoy it and it's, I am not immune to it. Like I'd love to be able to tell you like, oh, it doesn't affect me at all, whatever. No, it does affect me. I don't like it at all. It bothers me, but that's kind of not the test in our industry.

The test is, do you keep going or not? And you do have to keep going. You must keep going. You cannot let people who are attacking you silence you. That's a different story. Okay. So speaking of people in our industry, Whoopi Goldberg would like you to know, she gets a huge paycheck, huge, over at the view.

but she's still just a common person who works for a living. I'm not sure where she's going with this, but let's listen together, Sot 23. What made you even want to get on that show? I needed a job. You know what I mean? I needed a job. Barbara offered me a job.

She said, we just lost one of the people on the show. Would you consider coming over? And I had been doing a radio show. Yeah. And I said, absolutely, yeah. And so she brought me over. And it's like I've been crazy. glued to that chair.

Oh my gosh. What do you love about it? Because, I mean, first of all, the show is called. I love the check. I can only imagine what that check is. No, no. You can't. No.

Trust me. You can. I love it. You would be shot. Listen, you would be shocked. And welcome to the view. I can play her, guys. Yeah.

But as soon as they showed you that check, you'd be like, what the. That's incredible. Yeah. I love it. Praise God. It is what it is. Okay. I can't totally tell there.

She's suggesting it's incredibly large or incredibly small. But Yashara Ali, independent journalist, is reporting that he did reporting on whoopee not long ago and she was getting paid $6 million a year. So if she's lamenting it's too strong, she's a fool. It's too low. She's a fool. and if she's lamenting or bragging that it's too big, she's unlikable. I mean, either way, this is not a great comment. But she actually goes on to just suggest she understands the plight of working people out there right now, Glenn, because of her pay, because she's just a working girl and she needs to work.

This is the point that she was making in this podcast. I work for a living and therefore I understand people who are having a hard time. I appreciate that people are having a hard time. Me too. I work for a living. If I had all the money in the world, I would not be here, okay? So I'm a working person, you know? My kid has to feed her family.

My great-granddaughter has to be fed by her family. I know it's hard out there. I don't think she does know. I don't think she does a thing. Glenn, your thoughts. You know, I saw that they got Yashra Ali post two, and it was based on this Hollywood reporter article that summarized that interview you just showed, and it was very definitive that she was saying

my salary is so incredibly abundant and gigantic at the view that you would be shocked if you actually saw it. That was just the interpretation they assumed she meant. And who goes around saying that? Like, you won't believe how much money I'm making. It would shock you. I'm so rich. There was like, yeah, I'm so rich. I have infinite money.

But the reason why I wasn't sure that it was that was because about a year ago or a year and a half ago, and I noticed this. I don't know why I noticed things that are gross about the view. She was talking at that table and she was saying, I understand the plight of the working people and the groceries and the inflation that they're facing. And someone was like, how do you understand that? You haven't had that in 50 years. And she's like, you're absolutely wrong. I don't have to make enough money here to retire.

I have to work. I have people to support. So she was there claiming, for my stature as an awesome, or winning woman who used to be on the A list in Hollywood, I make very little here to the point where I can't even quit, which also is quite disgusting because she makes between $6 and $7 million. And I'm not saying that a list a year for just sitting at that table doing an hour show. I'm not saying that is an A list kind of salary like Jennifer Anderson making $30 million, whatever.

But if you're going to go on the air and say, I make $6 and $7 million, which makes me part of the working class to the point where I understand their plight when you've been a so i don't know which is worse megan was she boasting about how much money she makes or lamenting that she didn't make more even though it's like so much more than anybody ever makes yeah no i i i just watching the whole context it sounds like she was bitching that it was too small and yeshaar is a good reporter if he's got it a couple years ago at six million dollars year that's probably about where it is right she'd been doing it for 20 years so i think she's not you know in the in the poor house i think she's doing just fine but

I guess thinks she's entitled to more. I would, I would beg to differ. I mean, just the ratings of that show do not support paying her anymore. She can't, no one there can solo.

It's an ensemble cast. No one's running to offer whoopee her own talk show, never mind a sunny Austin, who's never been able to single in her life. So, you know, if you're making $6 million a year, you're making a lot.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I just, just go back and watch that one if you haven't seen it from 18 months ago where she was like, I am part of the, the working class. I understand the struggles of working people because I also have to come into work every day to make a paycheck. I also can't afford to retire. And it's the most out of touch thing you've ever heard anybody say. It's so ridiculous. Except perhaps for Megan Markle's comments about

how small her castle is and we should feel sorry for her. And that's what I want to do next. So this isn't a Megan Markle soundbite. But it is a latest development and a story that we've following here on the MK show about Megan Markle trying to make herself into the new Martha Stewart. As you know, Maureen Callahan and I did a whole parody of her attempts to do this and her ridiculous Netflix show with love, Megan. And in it, we made one pop pasta that she promoted in that series. And we had no trouble finding the recipe because we just went to Martha Stewart's website. And it was right there. It's one of her most famous recipes, which Megan Markle very clearly stole and like maybe added one ingredient to call her own. We put the two recipes side by

side. They were identical. I mean, it was the same thing. So Martha Stewart might not like that. You know, she's like, she's a tough old bee. And I say that respectfully. And she got asked about Megan Markle by People magazine and revealed that the two of them had just been at a dinner together, not like one-on-one, but they were both invited to the same function where there was dinner. And listen to this. I had dinner with Megan Markle the other night. Well, she was at the same table. So I can't say, she wasn't my guess. I was a get, we were both guests at a dinner party in California. And she had just gotten back from the palace. And I think I didn't, I didn't talk to her, really more than to say a couple words, but, but I know she was talking about it. If you're an actress,

It's hard to then transition to a princess and then from a princess into a homemaking guru on a television show. It doesn't sort of follow. So go from there. Shots fired, Glenn. Totally. You know, my perception of Megan Markle and my knowledge of her comes almost exclusively from Maureen's show because there is nobody for whom. Callahan. Morin Sullivan was a great actress back in the day.

Yeah, yeah. She won Academy Award, I think. I don't know what's going on with their brain today. But, yeah, Maureen Callahan, because there's nobody for whom Maureen has more contempt than Megan Markle. And it's just like, ah, I just sit there. It's so cathartic. It just like seeps into my veins. So I think everybody has come to that point where just Megan Markle for whatever reason is. Everybody should subscribe to the nerve immediately, by the way, as we go on the weekend. It's especially a great time in this time. I'm going to listen to Maureen. Listen to the nerve. Keep going. Yeah. And it's actually, the reason it's good to watch. is because it combines reporting with just the most acerbic, insightful, well-expressed, and hilarious

cultural criticism of hatred directed and all the people who most deserve it. There's never been someone she's attacked where I was like, I don't think she should be attacking that person. That person seems okay. No, me neither. And the other thing that's so great about Maureen is she's very intelligent. She has a great vocabulary. She comes at it from like this elevated level but with no gloves on whatsoever.

So there is something. It's like shoot it in my veins. This is what I think being addicted to heroin would feel like, only very much healthier. Yeah. And she's a real reporter, as you said. So it's not like she's just renting and raving with speculation. It's always so well researched, too. So it's actually reliable celebrity cultural criticism.

Yeah, the best show. And it definitely has turned me into a Megan Barcl. I just couldn't resist. You know, it's just so persuasive. But don't you think it? I think it's actually kind of cool that Martha Stewart, who is now in her 80s, she just doesn't give an F, Glenn. She's like, I'm going to cut this bitch,

and I don't care if you don't like it. She clearly mocking her. She got back from the palace, and she was talking about it. Oh, back from the palace. And how difficult it is to try to jump from these different roles right into making yourself a homemaking guru.

And was telegraphing to us all, it ain't as easy as it looks, and she's failing. Like, that's really what she was saying. That's my Martha Stewart decode. for you. Yeah, I've seen comments from her similar, not maybe as harsh about Megan Markle because I don't think she respects the fact that Megan Markle is a worthy competitor of everything Martha Stewart has done. And I love Martha Stewart because she is just so direct.

As you said, she's a very, I mean, she went to prison and she came out and built this whole second career seemed to do very well on it. Obviously, built a gigantic business too. Yeah, She is not somebody to play around with, and that passive-aggressive, critics of Megan Markle there was so enjoyable and so deserved. I wonder she might be a listener to this show or to the nerve and or to the nerve. We've got to find out. We need to know more. Glenn, so great to see you. Always a pleasure, my friend.

Always good to be with you, Megan. Talk to you soon. Okay. When we come back, a powerful legal story that you're going to want to hear about. this woman, my next guest, is a surrogate pregnant with another couple's biological baby, and they wanted to abort that baby. And she has refused. That's next.

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about how much it helps you tackle your daily aches and pain, three weeks for just $17.76. Simply go to Relieffactor.com or call 1,800. for relief. You will connect with their friendly local team and they will do everything they can to help you and maybe you will be sharing your story with them soon to. Relieffactor.com. This next story is extraordinary. McKenna West agreed to become a surrogate for a couple that needed her help. But at 20 weeks, the baby she was carrying was diagnosed with HLHS, which stands for hypoplastic left heart syndrome. a serious condition in which the left side of the heart does not develop properly.

The intended parents of this little baby wanted McKenna to have an abortion, but she refused. And now she is in a shocking legal fight with this baby's biological parents. McKenna joins us now, along with her attorney Lincoln Wilson and Lila Rose of live action, a group devoted as Lila is to the cause of life. Welcome to you all. So great to have you here. Lila, great to see you again. So McKenna, this is, I have, I have not heard a story like this, I have to say. Did you know this couple when you agreed to become a surrogate for them? No, we met through an agency, surrogacy agency. Okay. And as I understand it, you did sign a document saying that if the parents wanted at some point to abort the parents. pregnancy, they could. Is that, is that right? Yeah, going into this, we had talked about it when we first

met, and I asked them kind of their views on termination. And it was a reassuring conversation that really they wanted a baby. They weren't exactly sure what decision they would make if something came up, but they ultimately just wanted to be parents. And so I felt confident moving forward with them, that termination would not be their first choice. Okay, so the contract said they had the right to do it, but you, based on your conversations, didn't foresee them actually doing it. And then the baby, was it a 20-week amniocentesis? Is that what happened? There was no amniocintesis. It was an ultrasound that the cardiac defect was identified a couple days after 20 weeks. So then they said they wanted to avoid.

abort their child. But you are pro-life. And so what did that bring up for you? It brought up a lot of fear. And I just didn't know what to do. I felt very trapped due to this contract and felt like I had no voice. But I knew in my soul and my heart that I wanted to protect this little boy. And thankfully, my brother was, it was put on his heart to call me and just speak hope and courage into me. And he and his wife even offered to adopt this baby if it meant me not having to go through this late-term abortion. Wow. Right? Because at this point, the baby's almost five months in utero. And this is, you know, you start to feel the baby moving.

It's like, this is a very special time for a mother. And I can't imagine what it would be like to be told that you must abort the baby, like that you must. Yeah. So you didn't. Which is extraordinary. And there must have taken a lot of, a lot of prayers and courage on your part. And now it's devolved into a legal battle.

So let me bring in Lincoln at this point, your lawyer. So Lincoln, was the legal battle, did the parents try to force the abortion? Has a court ruled on that? Because McKenna did not abort the baby. She is pregnant right now. No, they didn't try to force an abortion in court. What really happened was that after McKenna had resisted and they'd put on essentially a pressure campaign to force her to abort. They even enlisted her own prior counsel to serve her with a demand of $250,000 with a process server in the middle of the night. And when they were unsuccessful in doing that, what they did was they pivoted to California. And they filed a lawsuit in California, even though the contract requires any litigation in Alaska where McKenna lives, they said, we're filing suit in California, and we want an expedited judgment of parentage. And our basic understanding is that what they want to do is if they're declared the parents, and unfortunately the California court did declare them to be the parents, then they can make the decision about medical care, and they can decide when this baby's born that they won't give him any care, and he'll be dead in a matter of days without it. McKenna is unequivocally willing to fight for his life, though.

Oh my God. Lila, we see this all the time in these cases where there's some sort of medical deformity, quote, defect. I'm using air quotes around those words, with an unborn child where, you know, parents choose to abort their child. But this, this is a much trickier situation. And McKenna held the line. What do you make of it? Man, what do you say the people out there who aren't that tuned into choice life, all that issue? who say, well, the poor child wasn't going to have any life anyway. So the parents are doing something humane here. Well, first of all, Megan, thank you for covering this. McKenna is a hero. Huge shout out to Lincoln for ADF support of this incredibly important case on this baby. I mean, this is a life at stake. And the reality is, I mean, the hospital that does deal with cases like this little boy's heart condition

can get up to an 80% success rate with a life-saving surgery that can give this boy's decades of life, of a wonderful life ahead of him. Medical technology is amazing. We have ways to care for life, to help life, and medicine should never be used to destroy life. But because we have abortion on demand in America, through all nine months, we have this search and destroy missions,

these search and destroy missions that happen, Megan, in healthcare where they look for a defect, they look for any problem with the baby, a genetic condition like, you know, trisomy 18, down syndrome. And then they say, well, we should terminate. So we throw away life that has seen, is inconvenient or not perfect, which is eugenics, by the way. Eugenics is trying to create the perfect race, the perfect genetic code, and this is what's

happening here. He's not perfect, so we should let him die or otherwise destroy him. So I'm really proud of McKenna. I think this case is so important. And I think that the fact that surrogacy contracts are basically slavery contracts today, like, I own your body now. I can do with it as I please. And the baby you're pregnant with is basically my property, too.

and I can kill that baby at will, it's completely unethical, and we shouldn't be allowing this any longer. I mean, as for this particular condition, our understanding is there have been cases of children who have lived with this condition. You have to have at least three operations when you're very young on your heart. But we found the case of Ben,

who was treated at CHOP, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. This is from February of 2015. He's about four in this video. Let's watch. We went for the routine ultrasound and they checked everything. They said, we see a heart defect. They said his condition was hypoplastic left heart syndrome. And it was really a very bleak picture that they painted for us.

A part of me gave up hope that I would have a baby to bring home. Benjamin's diagnosis is hypoplastic left heart syndrome. It's essentially a condition where the heart that normally has two pumping chambers, one to send blood to the lungs and one to send blood to the rest of the body only has one chamber, which is the right side of the heart. Our main goal is to convert that pumping chambers, so it really serves to pump blood to the entire body. So we're talking about a very complex surgery. You have one chance to do it right. And after that, hopefully you have two more operations to get this child to a healthy and productive childhood. I'd like to think that although I don't have my own children, I have hundreds of them.

And Benjamin is one of them. It's amazing to see him as just a normal kid. You would never guess he has heart disease. People will tell us, you know, if we didn't know that he had a heart condition, we would never believe it. He's very active, very normal, and, you know, he's very bright, has a great sense of human. or it's just an amazing kid. McKenna, have you talked about cases like that with the birth parents or someone representing the birth parents?

Not that whatever, the biological parents. Yes. After the diagnosis was made, I spent that weekend watching videos like that on YouTube. I personally know somebody. She'll be 16 in a couple of months with the same diagnosis. and it's not this hopeless diagnosis whatsoever. And that's part of why I want to fight so hard for this little guy is, yes, the beginning isn't going to be easy.

There's surgeries. There's, you know, it's complicated, but he absolutely can go on to live a full life, and he deserves that opportunity. And have you spoken with them? Like, do they respond to you directly or did you hear their justification? Everything, once the diagnosis was made, started going through the agency liaison. So I have not spoken to them directly since April 17th or that weekend. But you just got word.

Yeah. Did you get word from the surrogacy agency that they wanted you to abort? Yes. The liaison is who called to tell me. and their fears are that he's going to have a horrible quality of life and just be born into pain and suffering, which I do not agree with at all. And now we're in a fight, Lincoln, about, because she's having the baby now, that decision has been made. Now we're in a fight over where will the baby be born because this may have direct effects on whether he gets care and who will have.

the decision-making power once he is born. And then there's the question of who will raise this baby. If he does live after birth as a result of medical interventions or otherwise, we're going to pick it up there after we take a quick break. More with McKenna, Lincoln, and Lila Rose right after this. What a story. We will be right back. And before we go to break, just want to remind you, it's YouTube.com slash Megan Kelly.

You can hit join. You can get exclusive content there. And today we'll be dropping our second installment, our behind the scenes tour documentary. Be right back. Every season change seems to come with the same realization. A closet full of clothes and absolutely nothing to wear, right? Haven't you been there? Between work, travel, family commitments, and everything else, you might not have the time

or frankly the desire to spend hours and hours shopping. That is why I'm so excited to tell you about daily look. You've got to check these guys out. It is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. With Daily Look, you get your own dedicated personal stylist, a real person, not an algorithm, who curates a box based on your body shape, your preferences, and your lifestyle. And you get the same stylist every time so she knows what you're building up in your closet. You can try up to 12 premium pieces at home, keep what you love, send the back the rest,

with free shipping both ways. It's time to get your own personal stylist with daily. Look. Head to Dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use the code Megan for 50% off your first order. Once again, that's Dailylook.com for 50% off and make sure you use our promo code Megan so they know we sent you. Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly channel and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Moran Callahan, Emily Dershinsky, Jesse Kelly,

Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news only on the Megan Kelly Channel, SiriusXM 11, and on the Sirius XM app. On May 22nd, 2002, more than a year after Chandra Levy disappeared, a man named Philip Palmer walks his dog in Rock Creek Park. Palmer is a furniture maker who has collected antlers and animal bones since he was a boy, so he thinks nothing of leaving the trail and working his way down a slope. That morning, he sees a scrap of red fabric, then something pale and rounded in the leaves, about the size of a silver dollar. He brushes the leaves away.

What he finds is a human skull. He ties his dog's blue leash to a branch to mark the spot, climbs back to a nearby road, borrows a phone from a construction worker, and calls 911. Here's a bit of that phone call. I was walking my dog in wood this morning, and I came across to him in skull.

That was a clip from our MK Confidential series airing this week on Shandra Levy of the moment her remains were finally found, and that was an important moment in that investigation. A lot of people don't remember that aspect, as the story disappeared on 9-11, 2001. She went missing May 1st, 2001. We dive into what happened next in the investigation tonight and tomorrow,

an arrest and a conviction, but that was not the end of the story. This is part of a new series that we have launched called M.K. Confidential, where we take on one case per week. We started with John Bonae Ramsey. We did Klaus von Buello, and now we are in the middle of Chandra Levy. you can join us for this coverage already this week. Each episode is only about 30 minutes long,

so it's easy to catch up if you're not there yet. And we will see out Chandra Levy over the next few nights and then start another case on Monday. You can check it on our Megan Kelly Show podcast feeds and on our YouTube channel every weeknight this summer. Okay, back with me now. McKenna West, her attorney Lincoln Wilson,

who is with the Great Alliance Defending Freedom, and Lila Rose of Live, action. So before we went to break, Lincoln, we were wondering what the legal posture of this case is now, because obviously McKenna's having the baby. So now they're fighting over where she delivers the baby. And then what? Who controls the care that he gets when he's born or where the care will be provided? So there have been fights over where the care will be provided, but now it seems that it is, it's likely that it's going to be happening in Texas where McKenna is now at a hospital. that has a 100% success rate in providing the surgery. The big fight now is who's going to control that care. And the other side obtained a judgment in California that says they are the parents and that they get to make those decisions.

And that judgment will become effective on the child's birth. We are fighting to overturn that judgment and then also to say that while the court is working out those questions, really the surgery needs to happen and McKenna needs to be making these decisions because if the baby dies and then she wins on an appeal, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. You can't unring the bell at that point. It's really like the biggest case of irreparable harm that you could ever see. Yeah.

But now does that mean undoing that California judgment? Or how are you going to get a ruling that allows McKenna to make those decisions in the way you just outlined? That's part of it. Part of it is undoing the judgment. And we have appeals that are working our way through. the California courts and up to the U.S. Supreme Court that raised some important questions about due process, for one, the attempt to bring McKenna into California court on two days' notice

and finding that she actually consented to jurisdiction. And also the fact that the California courts are deciding what they admit are life and death questions for this child, and this child has no representation in the proceedings. We think that's a due process problem. That's what I was going to ask you Next, does he have any rights? Does this baby boy have any rights at all? I should hope so. And California law actually says that a child, an unborn child, is a person under California law if that child is going to be born. We think the answer is the same under the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. And we're going to be taking that issue up to the U.S. Supreme Court if we have to. But right now, we're in the California courts. And in the meantime, we're hoping that we can get relief that ensures that he gets the care that he needs when he's born so that he stays alive.

and that there's not an opportunity to leave him to die just minutes after he comes into the world. Has anyone indicated to your side, you, McKenna, or anybody else on your side, Lincoln or anybody else, that what they intend to do with the baby's health care once he's born? They've been very coy about it. They've actually told us that we're not entitled to know what their decision-making is, but there's enough clues. For one, they immediately sought an abortion. they aggressively sought an abortion.

For another, they have kept asking questions about palliative care, which is basically no care. Just let the child die, even though there's 100% success rate in giving this surgery. And last, they're still suing McKenna in Alaska, demanding that she be held liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars and damages because she refused to get an abortion. They're saying because she breached their contractual requirement to get an abortion,

she should have to pay them. We don't think that this shows a commitment to, actually letting this child live. And that now they're going to be saddled with this defective child? Is that basically the argument? Yeah, I think there's a tendency in this situation to treat children as a product. You know, you paid to get something. Yeah, it was defective.

It wasn't what you wanted. So send it back. Give me a new one. We think that's repugnant. We think it's offensive to California law. We think it's offensive to federal law and we don't want to see it stand. Is there an issue about... health care insurance, like if the baby's born in Texas with McKenna Lincoln and the parents say,

well, we don't have the insurance to cover all these surgeries. Is that an argument or no? Because would the state provide those surgeries? I don't think there's any question that there are the resources out there to get this child, the care that he needs. I can speak from my own personal experience. Our child was born with a cardiac condition and ended up in the NICU for three months and we had to get surgery. and we got unbelievable care and unbelievable resources to support that, and it was absolutely worth it. And that's why it's very personal for me to be engaged in this fight going after the same thing here. And I know there's abundant resources that Lila and her team have provided and would provide to save this child's life.

Well, that's the thing, Lila. There's literally not someone in the country who fights more for life than you. So you must know people or have donors who would help McKenna with these surgeries or have. help her get this baby through those first challenging, well, it looks like it could be a couple of years. But as we saw with Ben's story, it really is survivable. Yes. Yes. And there are thousands of pro-life advocates who want to help McKenna. There are thousands more who want to even adopt. I mean, the waiting lists right now to adopt are long, including families that are willing to adopt children, newborns that have special needs or special care is needed for them. And as McKenna even said,

her brother has stepped up heroically to say, I want to even adopt and help this baby. So the problem is not that people don't want to help. There are tons of people in line to help right now. The problem is that there is a couple who believe that this baby is their property and that they can kill this baby or order this baby to be left to die without care because this baby in their eyes is defected and unwanted to them. And they don't want another family to care for this baby and help this baby live. That's the issue. And that. that violates this baby's fundamental human rights, which is why I'm so grateful for the hard work of Lincoln and the team at ADF, because this case deserves to go to the Supreme Court

and to be one decisively in favor of this baby's right to life and McKenna. So what would be the ideal ruling then, Lincoln? Like what's your plan? What court are you going to go into and what are you going to ask for specifically? Because the babies do soon, right? Yeah, we're fighting in three different courts right now. there's the California proceeding that the other side filed. There's an Alaska case that McKenna filed.

And we've just learned that the other side has now filed a case in Texas, again, in violation of the contract, seeking to get a decision for them. Lincoln froze. But your due date is September 2nd, McKenna, right? So that's, I mean, that's coming up. And what's your ideal? I'll ask you to phrase it not legally, but what is your ideal ruling that you would get? I just want this little boy to be able to get surgery because that's what he needs.

So you want him to get the care that he needs. And if you had your way, would you then have your brother adopt this baby? Really, just any loving household, loving parents, whether that were me, my brother and my sister-in-law or another family that, you know, I'm not aware of right now. I just want him to have parents fighting in his corner. Have you found out, like, are the parents at all entertaining that idea that somebody, you know, clearly they didn't want this baby when they found out about the heart defect? So this is a solution that it's not the one they wanted, but they don't have to have anything to do with this baby.

But they're not interested in that? Not from what I understand at all, which is really unfortunate. this is so this is just so fraught i'm sure this is keeping you awake day and night are you how are you are you this must have been very stressful for you um yeah physically i feel i feel you know pretty good but it is it is stressful especially as i am in my final month now of pregnancy and there's still so much happening and developing um but i just i genuinely believe that God has orchestrated this and this little guy is going to get what he needs and what he deserves, which is a chance at life.

We've done too much. We've come too far for another outcome. So I just, that's really what I'm praying for. Lila, I was just online before we got started today. And I was on Instagram. And I saw my old friend and colleague from Fox News, Brett Bear. with the following post. Let's watch it. Hey, everybody. Thanks for the birthday, which is, I appreciate it, big five, six today.

And I am off. I am taking my son to Ireland to play in a father-son golf tournament. It's kind of the last hurrah before he heads to college in a few weeks. Happy birthday to Brett Baer, by the way. But the reason I play that, as you might know, is Paul Baer, who was born. born in June of 2007, and I was very close to Brett at the time, had multiple heart defects. He has a condition that's the short form is, well, hold on a second, let me to give you the actual name of it. It's called D transposition of the great arteries, or DTGA, in which the heart's two main arteries are reversed, which causes oxygen-poor blood to circulate through the body instead of being

sent to the lungs for oxygen. Paul was also born. So he had that, that was his primary defect, but he had a total of five complex congenital heart defects. He was also born with two holes in his heart, an interrupted aortic arch and an abdominal coroner coronal artery. So Paul had multiple, serious, very serious, complex heart defects. And this, this heart problem, can be is usually fatal in the first few days, weeks, or months of life because of that oxygen poor blood that circulates throughout the body. Babies do require emergency medical treatment soon after birth. And I remember when Paul was born, Brett sent on an email and that the subject was not what we expected. And we were all stunned and scared and we all thought that Brett and Amy

might lose their baby. And they didn't lose their baby. That, that, that, that, baby is the son that Paul, any emotional, is that that baby is the son that Brett and Amy are delivering off to college before next month. And he hasn't had it easy. He's had at least 12 surgeries, I think more than 12 surgeries. He had an emergency surgery not long ago. That was very scary. That family not for one second would regret Paul being born into this one. world and all the moments they have had with Paul through thick and thin through the difficult surgeries and the scary times and the great times on the golf course and otherwise. I just think, Lila, too many people feel overwhelmed by these scary diagnoses. And we also have a media

that refuses to highlight stories like that of Little Ben and Paul Bear. You're so right, Megan. I mean, life is worth fighting for. And a child's life is worth fighting for the most. This is an innocent, defenseless little one that's entrusted to adults. And what's the responsibility of adults? You know, how can we build a civilization that's strong and healthy? You've got to care about kids and you've got to put their needs first. And sometimes that requires sacrifice. But there's often a way.

And that's the power of medical technology and coming alongside families. And it's amazing what we've been able to accomplish with new medical technologies. But regardless of the ability of medical technologies, a life's always worth fighting for. you know, one way or another, you never leave someone to just die, especially a baby. You never go and kill a child in utero. And I will say, Megan, the only reason we're in this predicament that McKenna is in this extremely unjust and abusive situation. I mean, it's legal abuse that they're threatening with her with. I think it's physical abuse to try to demand her to have a late-term abortion. The reason this is happening is because abortion on demand is legal still in our country. I mean,

there's some states that protect life, but we have the majority of states now that permit abortion And what is abortion? It's the direct and intentional killing of an innocent human life. And under no circumstance, is it acceptable to kill an innocent human life? But that's what many laws in our states permit. And that is the crux of the problem here. And that's why McKenna is in this predicament. That's why this little boy's life is at risk.

So we need to change our legal system. We need to shift our culture here. And I'm really proud of McKenna and the work of ADF and the work of life action because that's what we're working here to do together. I mean, there's no. There's no question that abortion is the killing of a life. And if like you can debate, I always say this, you know, you can say that you are pro-choice and you're in favor of the mother making that decision and all that stuff. We cannot have the debate unless you admit that.

Like, you have to admit that. That's obviously a life. Then you can make your argument about I should be allowed to end it. I'm the mother. I create it. We can have that debate. We've been having that debate for a long, long time. But there's just no debate that that's a life.

There's just, there isn't. That is a life that you are ending if you have an abortion. So, McKenna, what happens now? What if, what if you don't get the legal relief that you're looking for? What if you have to, what if you get a judgment saying you have to have this baby in California? Is that a possibility that you might not be able to have the baby at the Texas facility with all the life-saving measures that are available there? Not at this point. Traveling after 36 weeks is really never recommended by OBGYNs. Okay. And so... Good. So you're staying in Texas. I'm here in Texas, yeah.

And what if a ruling comes down that what happens to this boy when he's born is up entirely to these parents? And he is born and he is not on your chest. He's not bonding with you. He's not having the skin to skin. Instead, he's being given palliative care as he dies. I pray that if they are the ones who make the decision once he's born, that simply seeing him and realizing just how real this baby boy is. You know, I've been feeling him for months now.

He's very, very real to me. I just pray that their hearts would soften. they're the ones making that decision when they see this little guy and that they want to fight as hard as I am and other people would absolutely be willing to fight for him. Yes, I'm praying for those parents right now tonight. I think we should all pray for those parents to see it this way, to see him born, to feel the connection and to understand that getting him the help he needs is the right thing to do and that there will be, a ton of people who I'm sure Lila Rose, you would help them too if they said that they, that they want to be the ones to shepherd him through these surgeries and so on. And this can still have a happy ending, praying God that it happens. McKenna, please keep us updated. Please stay well

and take care of yourself. Lila, thanks for the story and for all the great work you do. Thank you so much, Megan. Thank you, Megan. Wow. Wow, that's like, that's heavy. That is a heavy story. These, you know, the parents, it's like you, clearly they desperately wanted a child. You don't go to a surrogate unless you desperately want a child. And I understand there are a lot of families. I don't know what their financial situation is, but there are a lot of families who don't have the financial means to take on a massive health care battle.

That's a whole other problem in this country that deserves discussion. But in this particular case, it sounds like they will be helped and will be provided with the resources to get this little boy through. So maybe that will soften them on this. I don't know. They're anonymous. I don't know their names. I don't know really more than I've told you about their end of the story.

They have a contract that's on their side and they wish to enforce it. I'm sure they're angry that it won't be enforced. But they brought another person into this decision. And there's a written contract. And then there's your contract with God. And there are the rights of this. whether a court is willing to recognize them or not. This is a viable baby at this point.

Should tell you, we got a statement from the lawyer for the parents, whose name is Victoria Ferrara. And she writes as follows, the team at worldwide surrogacy specialists, LLC, is saddened by the turn to litigation in this matter. The team supports and has always supported the gestational carrier's right to make medical decisions for herself and for her bodily autonomy. The team also supports the right of,

of the intended parents to legal parentage of the child after his birth. The owner of worldwide surrogacy, Attorney Ferrarra, submits that this matter should have been referred to mediation where all parties would have been urged to consider the best interests of the child who will face severe hardship upon his birth and to reach a settlement so that upon his birth the child would be surrounded by love, not lawyers, and litigation. That's where it stands for now. So I'd love to know your thoughts on it. Please email me.

It's Megan. at megankelly.com. Thank you all so much for listening and for watching and we will see you next episode. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.