The Megyn Kelly Show - How Jared From Subway Was Exposed: A Megyn Kelly Show True Crime Special | Ep. 572

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

"Hot Crime Summer" week on The Megyn Kelly Show continues with a deep dive on the horrific story of Jared Fogle from Subway. Megyn Kelly is joined by journalist Rochelle Herman, who was featured in the recent "Jared From Subway: Catching A Monster" highlighting her personal work in bringing down Jared and exposing his crimes, to discuss the tactics she used to get close to him, what she learned about him being a pedophile, how big a star he was at the time, the disturbing phone calls she recorded of Fogle, why the FBI wasn't acting fast to stop him, whether he was part of a bigger conspiracy, whether Subway knew about it, his life in prison and when he's expected to get out, spotting a pedophile and lessons on "grooming," Fogle's life growing up, encouraging more victims to speak out, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Our hot crime summer week continues today with a fascinating episode. Today, we bring you the case of convicted sex offender and pedophile Jared Fogle. You may remember this guy as Jared from Subway. Subway sandwiches? Jared was a popular spokesman for Subway for 15 years. While the world watched Jared talk about his weight loss and his favorite sandwiches on TV,

one woman, Rochelle Herman, was working tirelessly behind the scenes to put Jared behind bars. She knew something the rest of us did not. And this is the story of how she learned it and worked to expose him. Rochelle joins us today to walk us through the Jared Fogle case and to share how she helped take down the now disgraced subway spokesman. Rochelle Herman, so good, good, good to have you here. Thank you so much for being on. You're very welcome. I appreciate the invitation. Thank you. Oh, I'm so awed by what you did, your whole role in this. I've watched the whole series and you are a heroine and just an incredibly courageous, ballsy person. I mean, the number of things you did to advance the case against this guy

is a, it's a long list and at extraordinary peril to yourself, your family. All right. So we're going to go through it. And I knew this story. I was in news, but I didn't know anything about you, Rochelle, prior to seeing this. So I'm grateful for this Investigation Discovery production and to get to know you. All right. So let's start at the beginning. You're down there in Florida. You're minding your own business. You're building your radio show. You're doing well. And that job as a journalist, as a public person, brought you within the orbit of Jared Fogle, the subway guy. For what reason? How?

He was working with the American Heart Association for talking with children, motivating them because of childhood obesity. So he was a guest on my show because I always gave time to, you know, organizations such as the American Heart Association. So you met him and on that first meeting, what did he seem like? The first time that I met him, he was about 20 minutes late, but he seemed very, he was very nice. He was very low key, very pleasant, and he wanted to help children. That was the whole process for the interview. I think we like to tell ourselves we would be able to tell if we were in the presence of a child predator, just to make ourselves feel better, you know, as moms, as humans. And that's why it's, it is important that before you started to spend more time with him, he seemed quote, normal to you. We can't tell, Just ask anybody who's in the Catholic church. You can't tell. That's a very important point that you bring up, Megan, is you can't tell. And that's why I

worded it the way that I did, because he was very nice, very cordial, polite, and he was really focused on wanting to help children with childhood obesity. So you can't tell who a predator is. Most people have no idea when they're sitting right in front of them. Although, I mean, in so many instances, they create a job or a situation around them that brings children into their orbit. I mean, it's such a push pull because they do that. And yet we all know so many great educators and coaches who are wonderful, who had never heard a child who make it their mission to help children as a profession who we don't want to scoop up into that perverted sick thing, but it's no accident, right? That it's, it's probably no accident

that Jared created this charity having to do with children. No, it's no accident at all. And, you know, when we're talking about, um, you know, across the country, if they're, I think it's about 80% or more where the predator is known, whether it's family related, but they do happen to know that they're familiar with the child. They are, whether they're friends or as you had mentioned earlier, educators, they could be clergy. I've received a number of messages from people around the world that have been victims. They have fallen victim to being you know having sexual abuse as a child through these individuals and they run the whole gamut of who you think would be safe

i should say up front the fbi does not want you to be doing this interview. Is that true? Yes, but let me please let me clarify. The FBI, I was approached recently and they they asked me to fall back. And the reason why is for my own safety. It's not because I have brought a voice to what is happening. And I'm giving my voice to help anyone who has been subjected, whether it's Jared's victims or otherwise to childhood, sexual abuse, trafficking, whatever. And the, they don't want me to put my life at risk. And apparently I have angered a certain demographic. There's a number of people. I have received some emails, messages from individuals, not very many, I would say maybe 2%, very angry with what I did. And they're in defense of Jared.

Oh, my gosh. Yes. It's really sick, in my opinion. All right. So we'll get to why and all of that, but it's absurd. Thank you for, I mean, again, putting yourself at risk and coming on to tell the story. It is important. It's not just about Jared, though. We do need to watch him too, because he's getting out of prison in the not too distant future. But there are sadly many, many Jared's out there and Rochelle's become

a bit of an expert in how to spot them and how to keep kids safe. So there's a lot baked into your story. All right. So you, that was meeting number one, rather unremarkable. And then tell us about the second time you met him. Uh, well, it was actually shortly after that. I had met him because we were scheduled to do radio first. I did radio and TV as a show host. And we did the radio interview first. And then I met him at a local middle school in Sarasota. And it was then that he said something to me when we were alone in the auditorium, we were setting up for the influx of the children to come in. And

they were all very excited to meet him. And so we were setting up and my cameraman was across the way, preparing the cameras and our mics were hot. Jared didn't know that and he had leaned over to me. He was very flirtatious and very friendly and was just in general chatting with me. And I asked him if he was excited about meeting the kids. And then he leaned over and he said just above a whisper how hot he thought middle school girls were this is so bizarre this happened at the beginning of your second meeting like he's saying the same day so it's so confusing right that he would right off the top say something do you think it's because he didn't realize how inappropriate that sounded to someone who's normal? I can only speculate why he said that to me. But he was very interested in me.

And maybe he wanted to say something to me to see whether I would be on board and don't waste his time. But what happens is I kind of shut down inside when someone says something that inappropriate. I just, I have a blank expression. And I think that is, you know, my reaction to situations of this nature or similar is that I don't lash out. I'm internalizing everything. And I was thinking to myself, did I really just hear what he said? Was that accurate? And I looked across, I glanced to my cameraman and his mouth hit the floor and I could tell, yes, that's exactly what I heard. Now, most of us, I gotta be honest, would have said, so Jared's a freak. My God, what the hell's up with Jared from Subway?

And moved on. I mean, that's truly what most people would have done. He's a freak, but there's no evidence that he's more than just a weird freak who thinks about these things. Not you. This is what makes you different. The people who make a difference on this earth are the people who just go the extra mile, who don't just move on. And so while you were

thrown, you were, you know, you said you sort of internalize, you started to come up with a plan. Well, I did. And if I may, what I did, I thought anybody would do. And I was told down the line by one of the agents that I was working with, they told me, Rochelle, what you have done, the initial steps and everything that I did, most people would not do. And I was really perplexed by that. I was like, what do you mean most people wouldn't do that? That is the right thing not do. And I, that was really perplexed by that. I was like, what do you mean? Most people wouldn't do that. That is the right thing to do. It's a moral and public obligation. And no, apparently most people wouldn't. No. And it's usually the instinct is, oh my God, get away. Right? Like usually it's like the guys something's off. Let me get out of here. But you went the other way. You went in a little bit into some of that.

It's called Jared from subway catching a monster. And it talks, it's you talking about your decision-making about what to do next. Sot three. I can be completely honest with you about everything. I can't wait to see you. What do you want to do? You.

I had to play a role with Jared that I was interested in him personally, romantically. This was, in essence, a honey trap. I was going to use his flirting with me, interest in me, to my advantage. Absolutely. Why would I not? That was my leverage. I think you're incredible. I think you're amazing, baby.

Everything I can imagine in a woman. Everything I can imagine in a man. Everything I can imagine in a friend. Everything I can imagine in everything. So you got close to him and this was in the midst of you two getting closer as quote friends, but you were doing it for a reason. I did. And I will tell you, I would lay my life on the line to help protect, especially a child, anyone that, you know, is in need. It's just my natural instinct to dive right in. But for what I had to do and what I was subjected to hearing is nothing in comparison to what these children did. It's so disturbing. My producer, Natasha, cut a bunch of clips from the show, 80% of which we're not going to run. It's too dark. It's too disturbing. And we talk about dark things sometimes on this show, too dark,

too disturbing. In the context of the film, it's okay. It works and you need it to be in there. In the context of this interview, it would be too much for people to hear these actually just dark graphic desires of Jared as spoken to you. I mean, you're the reason we have them, but we'll play a couple enough so the audience gets it. But you went through a lot having to hear that. It's like stumbling upon child pornography. Like imagine if you've stumbled upon a magazine of child pornography, just as you're cleaning your house and reading the most vile discussion. That's what you were forced to endure in these conversations with him.

It was even worse than that, Megan. The fact is, is that he was telling me what he was doing, what he did, the children's reactions. And one thing that was not, there's a number of things that were not revealed, addressed in the docu-series. There's only three hours out of five years, 24-7 work that I had been able to acquire.

So there's more to it, of course, but there's a difference when what you see in a magazine and a story that you read, then when somebody is telling you what they're doing and the reaction and there he was, he actually defined how he was grooming the children, which ultimately led to the rewriting of the playbook for profiling pedophiles within the FBI. Right. The grooming is all over the news, that word these days. And I confess it was looming large in my own mind as I watched the docu-series because you hear some of it in his exchanges with you, what he wants you to do to help get children, you know, in his mind, ready for, to visit him. Of course, this would never happen. And you were of course working with the FBI, but it is, it was illuminating. And I think we can draw some lessons from it, but I'm getting ahead of myself because I want to lay the foundation first. So you decide to start befriending him. But as you point out, it's more of a honeypot operation, like lure him in. He was obviously attracted to you and get him to start talking, get him to say more about the hot middle schoolers. But you didn't know whether he would. I mean, it's tough to know whether that was a passing comment. He's just a weird guy or this is an actual pedophile and he's going to actually confess it to me, a public figure. So how confident were you that you could get him to do that? Well, I wasn't very, it wasn't about confidence, to be honest with you. It was just about strategy,

what to say, how to say it. But really what he was saying to me wasn't what he wanted to do. He described in such detail what he did and the responses from the children, their reactions, what they would say, how to be able to really wade through and find the right specific child, which was typically from a broken family, possibly have some kind of mental health issues, depression or otherwise. I mean, he wanted the week to prey on. You start just using your dictaphone. Been there, sister.

I was that person too many years ago before we had, sister. I was that person too, many years ago, before we had the iPhone. I was a lawyer back then. But yeah, you started to tape him using a dictaphone. And the vast majority of your relationship was over the phone, right? Like, where was home base for him? You were in Florida and he was where? Well, his home is in Indianapolis. So that's his home base. But he traveled so much. I mean, majority of the time, he was always on the road. And not just in the United States, he was abroad in a number of other countries. And he would be on the phone with me, and I would be on the other end of the phone end of the phone and I could hear the crowds and the excitement. Oh, you're the subway guy. Um, the kids screaming. He said to me once that he was as popular as Michael Jackson

in Australia. You know, what's crazy. The docuseries does a good job of showing that he really was. I, I lived it. I was a human on this earth at the time. Everyone knew him. I knew him. But he was hugely popular. It was beyond your normal, oh, there's that guy from the ad. He became just ubiquitous. He was everywhere. He was Subway. He was in every ad. I mean, like, was it 300 ads for Subway? Yes, I believe so. He was just an everyday, ordinary guy. And people really supported him because of his quick rise to stardom and for losing weight and, you know, doing his diet with specific sandwiches from Subway. So it was like, you know, for the average person, for anyone really looking at him, he was just like an all American hero because of how he reached, you know, that level of startup. And then the movie points out he made millions. I mean, he became very rich, very famous, well-traveled, beloved with a lot of access to power players. span, all based on that one article in his University of Indiana, where he was going to

school and lost 245 pounds in a year by eating two Subway sandwiches a day. Then they did an article on him. Subway heard about it, made him their spokesperson and boom, off to the races. So you're in the midst of this phone relationship with him and he is starting to say incriminating things. So the first time this was something that was unclear to me from watching the series. He made the comment about the middle schoolers. Then you're on a mission, how hard was it to extract the admissions that you would ultimately get from him in that phone relationship? It was interesting because it was a phone relationship because I was never allowed during the time that I enlisted with the FBI to meet with him in person, although I wanted to because I felt as though that the case could move, you know, much more swiftly and I could gain, you know, deeper information, more hands on, if you will. And he, will and he it it was to me baffling that somebody would entrust another person with a phone conversation as a relationship and share in detail everything that he did when i think about it i'm thinking perhaps he was lonely didn't have um because he was so busy with his scheduled subway, he really didn't have time

to make friends. And he was, he had his friends, but not being all over the world, anyone that he could trust like that. So perhaps it was just something that a necessity for him. So maybe easier than you expected at first. Now, wait, before you brought in the FBI, I love how you're, you're how you're moving the pieces. But before that, you did have one meeting with him. And it was scary, right? Can you tell us about that? Yes. He said he was coming into Palm Beach, and he was going to be there for a couple of days. He had to do some work with Subway and asked if I would come up. And, you know, here I am based out of Sarasota. And I really wanted to get this information. So I did, I agreed to, and he told me where he was. And that's when I took the drive.

And I went there. And he opened the door welcomed me in. Hi, how are you doing? And then almost immediately became very flirtatious and hands on. And I kept pushing him aside and just trying to continue with the conversation because I had my dictaphone in my handbag and it was recording. So I wanted to get as much information as quickly as possible. So it was very uncomfortable being there. And it wound up in you fleeing, right? Like he, he left the room and you, you fled, which must've been very, you must've been very scared to just kind of jeopardize your operation by just piecing out. I, I was, I will tell you, I, I replay that time over and over in my head. And I was so grateful when he did excuse himself from the room for a few minutes because that was my opportunity. Other than that, I don't know how I would have gotten away because I'm not sure he would have let me. And you think back now, think of all he had to lose. What if he had found your dictaphone? What if your purse had spilled?

Well, that was definitely top of mind, but I will say I raced to my car as soon as he, as soon as that door shut, I quickly and very quietly exited and raced to my vehicle. And then the entire drive home, which is about three hours, I was crying. I was so upset because of what I just put myself at risk of. But I still needed more information. I was very disappointed that I didn't get anything concrete. It was inaudible, but there had to be another way. And I knew that he was interested enough that another opportunity would arise. You just told me you had a phone call from your

kids and you had to get out of there when he called to say, Hey, where'd you go? So one of the things that's interesting to me, just from a human perspective and watching your story is you talk about how you cried on the way home. And there's another point at which you admit you threw up after one phone call and just, you're very open about how this was actually really, really difficult on you emotionally. And I have to say, Rochelle, I like that. It's, it's almost a more interesting story because you are very vulnerable in that way. You're not this, you know, tough as nails, like I was going to nail him and I got him and it was it. Yeah, screw him. You were very fragile at times in this thing, but you kept at it. That is such a hopeful story, I think, to everyone out there. And even if you are a crier,

even if you're emotional, even if it's really hard, if you keep at it, whatever it may be, you could accomplish something hugely important. You certainly can. Now, I would like to point out, Megan, if you don't mind, that this really tore me apart. It was very emotionally draining. Psychologically, it was just a disaster because of everything that I heard. I do not want, in my mind, to share with other people. And that's why it took me quite a while before I came out to even share a portion of what had transpired. But, and I thought after the docuseries was aired, it would make me stronger. And it did, but it was a grueling two

years piecing this together. And after the airing, and I can't go into detail too much, but there was an attack on a family member of mine. And that is what made me very strong. I'm different now than I was before that happened. And it's only been a couple of months, but it just put everything into perspective for me in the sense that, you know, you're, you have to stand up and, and do what is right because these, it's not, it's not something that anybody should stand down. It's something that I believe everyone, you can make a serious difference if you make an effort to stand up and do what's right. That's crazy. I didn't realize there was a contingent of Jared defenders out there.

How is this even remotely controversial for what you did or what he's been exposed for? I don't know. There was a couple that I read. They felt as though my recording him was illegal, which actually there was a gray area. And the FBI knew that because that's what I shared with them. It's a public broadcasting entity. He knew that I was a known talk show host. He called into the same telephone number, the same studio line. He knew it was the studio number. There was no expectation of privacy. I didn't realize that. Wait, these phone calls are on your studio line?

The initial ones before I agreed to work with the FBI, before I presented the case to the FBI, I reported everything within the studio. He's a lunatic. I mean, talk about risky. Okay. So you'll get these tapes and he does start saying very inappropriate and incriminating things. And you go to the FBI. And I mean, as soon as they hear what you have, they've got four agents in the room with you. It's like, you know, I'm sure that at first they were like some lady from Sarasota is here. She's good. But then it becomes very real, very fast. And they, and you become a confidential informant for the FBI. You start working with them. You start what was it wearing wires or how would you work with the FBI on the phone calls? Yes. 24 seven.. You know, I had, there is protocol for when you make an outgoing call, if I were to call him, and when you receive from, you know, beginning to end, things you need to say just for legalities.

And also, once I had those takes, once I had that recording, I needed to bring them and do a drop immediately for the integrity of the information. It's like something out of a movie. You're going to the dark parking lot, doing the quick drive-by, handoff. And they say that's for your own safety. So nobody, if he were watching you, he wouldn't see anything. Well, that's exactly right. That's why they do it in, you know, the darker corners. They'll do it at, you know, under night, um, you know, in alleyways and they do it where they pull up alongside me. And it's always the dark, you know, the black suburbans, very dark tent,

do the handoff. It was really very surreal, very creepy. I wanted to have further conversation with the agents when I made drops at certain times, but they did not do that. And I found out later on the reason why was because they did not want to chance anyone seeing this transpiring because it would put me at risk. See, as a CI, CIs, you're given aliases and numbers, and that's what you're referred to, not your real name. But I came out when Jared was arrested and I shared because the public has a right to know. And that is exactly why I'm here today. And there's further information that I'd like to share. And I have a lot of things, you know, that I'm going that I am pursuing because I think that I can make a big difference. But with the help of others, you know, out there, you know, mostly the victims, because without their stories, you know, they can really share some insight that we don't have personally if we haven't

gone through it. Well, you added a piece to it that was very important, which was, it's one thing for the FBI to be saying, we found thousands of images of child pornography on his computer and his hard drive. It is another for us to hear it in his own words, his sick perversions. There's just no getting around that. One thing you can compartmentalize a little bit more easily, like, oh God, who knows what was on there? I guess he's a sick dude. But to hear him again, we won't be playing the most graphic soundbites here is a different story. You just, you know, and you feel very motivated to keep him behind bars forever, ideally, but right now that we're not on track for that. So you're working with the FBI. How long did that period go on you and the FBI? Actively, um, just under five years. So this is a great frustration to us and to you. The audience now is saying, five years?

What do you mean? He's making these admissions. In the docuseries, you hear him talking about allegedly going to Thailand and what he did to the little children over there who were being sex trafficked. Why wouldn't they go arrest him? Isn't that enough to get a search warrant to see if he does have child pornography? Like why? And what was the FBI saying? Well, one would think. I was very frustrated because I have given thousands of recordings over the years and they were so compelling. I even made phone calls to the office out of Tampa, middle of the night,

you know, in trying to track down my handlers, my lead agent, to let them know that Jared is boarding a plane. He's going, he's, you know, it's going to this city. And he told me he's, you know, this one particular incident, there was a little girl he was going to see. And he alluded to the fact that the parents knew what he was going to do. So there's more to the story than just that. But that is what he had told me. And I had that all on tape. And I couldn't understand why it was so difficult, you know, working together with other law enforcement agencies to follow him, you know, when he gets off the airplane and just track him to where he's going, to track his cell phone, something. And I still, I don't understand all the inner workings. They

have their reasons, but I found that to be very frustrating because I didn't know what else to do. We're going to play two soundbites here of your discussions with him. And this is where it took just a particularly dark turn for poor you, because you're a mom and you had two young kids who are, I think, nine and ten. I mean, it was a period of years, so they were aging, but they were around there. And Jared knew that. And he started to turn the discussion to your own children, which is something very different than the abstract idea, which is awful enough. So we've got a bit of that from the piece.

We'll play Sat 4 first. And this is a viewer warning. This is disturbing and not appropriate for children. Will you do anything I tell you to do? Yes, I will. You promise? Yes. Wait, let me see your kids naked. Oh my God, Rochelle, that is stomach turning. It really is.

Maintain your composure. For all those years prior, he really did not bring my children into conversation at all. So now his sights were set on my kids. How did you manage through that? Actually, when that initially happened and he started to zone in on my kids and ask questions, that's when I spoke with my lead agent, Billings, special agent Billings. And she, I was going to quit and just walk away and through conversations they did not have anybody else to get in they they had tried for quite a while um through me

to try to introduce an agent to take my place ultimately but he would never bite. He was just he was just very stuck on wanting to talk with me. You were it for the FBI, for everyone. Here's a second soundbite. Same vein and same warnings. Stop by. My kids. Oh, gosh. Blue eyes. Blonde hair. that's a girl i've got so what's your kid do you think i like better seen naked your son or your daughter um i don't know you seem to like both girls and boys i don't know i really don't know. I really don't.

Oh, my God. That was very difficult for me to hear. Of course. My God, your strength is superhuman. The FBI, they just weren't doing it. And you ultimately did something extraordinary. Again, another extraordinary act. You went to, was it the local DA DA to try to get somebody to do something? I went to local law enforcement, Sarasota Police Department. I had my own talk shows, TV, radio,

great following. Did it not locally, just not only locally, but nationally as well on a number of different venues. And I was going to and played it out in my mind many times because I felt that there was so much information that I had already shared. I know what he's doing. They know what he's doing. And every minute makes a difference. That's a potential child being violated, being stopped, you know, being harmed. And that is something that I wasn't going to stand down

any longer. So I went to Sarasota Police Department, and essentially turned in the FBI. And of course, you can only imagine the looks that I got. And they were questioning, what did you just say? What are you doing? And you're reporting why? And I said, because, am not, it was great teamwork and I applaud and commend all of the law enforcement worldwide that really participated in this Interpol and because there were so many different countries that were involved.

But they wouldn't allow me to leave. I went on my lunch break and, um, I was there for many hours and they had tied in, um, there was probably about 30 or 40, um, law enforcement. Um, and then all of a sudden the FBI agents walk in the door and I felt as though I was almost being quashed not to say anything through intimidation. But I stood my ground and it took them quite a while before they convinced me not to go public. They did say that I would be impeding an ongoing investigation and there would be repercussions legally against me. And I still didn't, I didn't care. And they saw that. And it finally took one of the detectives

from Sarasota Police Department that pulled me aside. And only by what he shared with me, did I agree not to go public because having my own airtime, I wanted to lock the door and then broadcast what, what I had been doing, what I had discovered and just warn the public myself. It's a last resort.

Right. And, and he told me this, this detective, he said that what they discovered, because they couldn't tell me all the details and they, and I understand that, but they said, he said to me what they discovered was that jared was

but a pea in a pot regardless of how big he was um so well known that he was leading them to even larger individuals political figures celebrities, and that a case like this typically takes at least 10 years, if not longer, to get the concrete information. And so it will happen. He will be taken down, but it's going to take that time and process. But in the meanwhile, when that does happen, he told me that I would see these others fall from grace really, and be exposed for what was really going on. And that leads me to believe Jared pled guilty. I was so grateful that the children and even myself didn't have to go to trial and put anybody else at risk of having to go through that whole ordeal because that's traumatizing again to these children um so i just i just wonder you know i don't know whatever has been redacted from the reports um what he did to

steer them in this direction or if it was only through their own investigative resources of how they found out. But, you know, now we see Epstein, you know, he had fallen shortly thereafter, really, in the grand scheme of things. It was only a few years. But, you know, and I can't see why he would not have at some point engaged with epstein because he he liked going to boca raton he liked going to palm beach and spending time there and you know palm beach is where where epstein lived and that's where his playground was for the most part, aside from his island,

of course. But so I think there's a lot more to it and I think a lot more is going to come out. Wow. I hadn't even considered the Epstein connection because I was going to say there was no domino cascade of celebrities and public figures falling for this kind of thing after Jared. Epstein would be a big one that if there were, if there were a connection there, that would be a very significant one that how long in advance of Jared's arrest, did that conversation with you happened where they said all that and urged you not to go on your show? About three, four years, maybe could Could have been longer. But I had been

working with them, I think, for about three years. And that's when I went to Sarasota Police to turn them in to hopefully, you know, ramp up the operation and put new, you know, maybe some new eyes on the case. And so it was with a few years after, after that, because I had a couple more years in and, you know, that was, that that's just how all that transpired. So you are, you're going through this, there's, it's very difficult for you. Now, were you a single mom? I couldn't tell whether you had a divorce or? Yes. Okay. We were, we were separated obviously first and then ultimately divorced. So I was a single mom raising my children, but we had 50-50 custody. And it's interesting, my ex-husband,

my children's father, was retired police department from Sarasota. And aside from our differences that anyone would have going through a divorce and being divorcees, most people don't get along right away. That takes years to develop. But he removed that aspect of our personal life. And he was all hands in, all hands on deck, helping me watch the children, taking them last minute, doing whatever he could to provide me the time and the understanding because I would be able to talk to him during these times of duress because I told him what I was doing. I would never do that without telling their dad because he had a right to know. And it was important that he did know.

But I have to give him a lot of credit because he did what I think is very difficult for most people is to put your differences aside and move forward because he knew what I think is very difficult for most people, is to put your differences aside and move forward, because he knew what I was doing was very important and risky at that. Your son, Thomas, is featured in the docuseries and appears very proud of what you did. We pulled just one soundbite, but there are a few that we could have chosen from. It's Sod 8. I'm very proud of what you did. We pulled just one soundbite, but there are a few that we could have chosen from. It's Sod 8. I'm very proud of my mother. She did do something heroic

and she was selfless because she lost a lot in the process. Your daughter does not appear and there's speculation in the wake of this docuseries that the two of you are estranged, perhaps because of these phone calls, perhaps she held them against you or something else against you. What's the truth on that? The truth on that is she was not, um, she's a very private person. She was all for us doing the docuseries. She thinks it's important, but she just, you know, personally, she doesn't like, like, you know, all the attention.

She doesn't like that. She doesn't, she's very private and tries to keep to herself. But as far as being estranged from her, of course, you know, there was a certain period of time that she was upset with me. She was angry with, um, certain situations because of

what she would, you know, perhaps read. And she thinks that I put the, put them at risk, which I never did. And I never would. Um, I, I, I have been able to just share with her exactly through facts, factual information, exactly how everything transpired. And she sees that now. But what she was most angry with me about was that she lost her mom for all those years. She didn't have the mom connection throughout her childhood for the most part that other kids did because I always had to be away. I could never tell her why. And still to this day, I think that there's some, you know, animosity there because I didn't have to do that with the kids is what she had said when she was younger. She's an adult now. So she thinks differently. But, um, but I, her, her whole idea was you didn't have to do that. You needed to spend more time with us. And I get that, but I had, it was a, it was a lose, lose situation in a sense, because I lost my ability to be the mom that I always wanted to be.

This was that time consuming? People out there might be thinking, well, you just had some phone calls every once in a while, a couple of tape drops. What was so time consuming about it? Well, I was a single mom. I had to make a living. I did my own shows. I booked. I did everything. So it's, you know, that alone, and especially even back then, it's really a two-income family. So that took a lot. I did not get compensated during my time with the FBI for all those years. And I would have to leave my house, hire sitters if my, you know, if their dad wasn't available. And it was just, it was so time consuming because he would call during the day, but a lot of the calls would come in the evening.

Being around the world, he'd be in different time zones as well. And they would be relentless. He would call continuously. And I had to go through the taping. And then as soon as they were done, go meet up with an agent and make the drop. And I really was not getting the sleep that I needed.

And it was just very draining on me. How many phone calls would you say there were? Over all those years, how many phone calls would you say you had taped? Oh. oh well if you average it out at the eight to ten per day for all those years seriously only towards the very end did they become less and less because he kept wanting to see me in person and they would not allow that and that wasn't married with kids by that time what at the end there rochelle what didn't he get married and have kids by that time. What at the end there, Rochelle, what didn't he get married and have, uh, and have children of his own, like at the, at the end? I believe so,

but I don't think that I was working with the FBI at that point. Okay. So there was a period where your phone calls ended and then there was a gap and then the arrest. That's correct. Okay. Cause the weird, weirdly, the arrest did not happen as a direct result, as I understand it, of your tapings, though they would become relevant at trial. He had a guy running his children's foundation who was also a disgusting pervert as it would turn out. And that guy, his name was Russell. What's his, what's his last name?

Russell Taylor. Russell Taylor. That guy, Russell Taylor would Russell Taylor. Uh, that guy, Russell Taylor would be the reason Jared would ultimately get caught because he, um, had without getting too graphic, but he and his wife were into some very disturbing things. And there was a, an email that got circulated of his wife and some sort of very twisted sex act. And the act itself is unlawful. And they got wind of the fact that Russell was emailing it. Emailing the pictures is not unlawful, but they just decided it's time to investigate Russell and his family situation, what's going on there. And that led them to Russell's computer, which had all these sexual images of children on it, including his own stepdaughters, who we now know whose images we believe were funneled to Jared Fogle.

And the young women, who are very young moms, at least one of them is a mom herself now, spoke at length in the documentary. They were very put together, I have to say, for girls who have been through. This guy was taping them in their showers, in their beds. It's their stepfather. Put cameras all over their home. This sick, perverted. And then using the tapes to, I don't know if he sold them. He certainly provided them to Jared for people to get off on the images of his own stepdaughters who had no idea he was this way, who thought that he loved them.

Here's a little bit from Christian and Hannah, the two daughters who spoke out in the documentary. After Russell was arrested, we had to talk to the FBI. I was in a very traumatic, frozen state. I couldn't even believe what was happening to me. They sat me down and told me that there were cameras all throughout the house. They were everywhere. Russell, he was watching us in the shower, watching us get dressed in our rooms, watching us masturbate. We were being watched 24 seven. My God. So this leads the police to Jared because they saw Russell had it. Russell had given some to Jared and then they went to Jared. They got a search warrant for Jared's computers and then they had him. I mean, they had all the images. God only knows what was on his computers. And by that point, Rochelle, he, I, he was definitely married and they had children. He had, it's just terrifying to think that a pedophile can not only molest children,

he can make children of his own and God knows what their future would have been. Had he not been caught. Um, it was a huge deal that we have video of the raid when the police got to his house and it hit the news like that, that Jared Fogle, the subway guy, has been arrested. His home has been raided. Here's the video back at that time of him coming out of the house. And no one could believe it. No one could believe that this guy who'd been in our living rooms for 15 years as this sweet guy next door was a sick child molester. So now the day that that happened, you were no longer working with the FBI,

but you are the person who's put all these years. What was that like for you? It was very surreal. I thought that I would have received a phone call to prep me and let me know. I knew while I was working undercover, that was always the plan. If they had decided that this is the time they were going to arrest him, the plan of action was they were going to send agents to my children's school. The children had to be prepped if this day were to happen. You know, that, and the schools, all the, you know, the teachers and the superintendent, they all needed to be made aware of this over the years.

And they had switched schools from time to time as they were growing up and you know so they were my kids knew that there was something that was happening they um my son had revealed to me that they they knew that I was working with the FBI there was a bad man I was helping them get but he said to me he never knew who this person was and he was actually saying but he and my daughter because they'd have conversations and it was worse that they didn't know who it was because they didn't trust anyone um they didn't know honestly could it be someone that they know a friend a family member somebody at school um i didn't know all these years that that was what they were subjected to. So that really, you know, that is difficult and, you know, really stomach turning

to me to hear what they had to go through. Because everyone's the boogeyman. Everyone's the boogeyman when you don't know. But of course you weren't at liberty to share any of that. Uh, yeah. So he had two children at the time he was arrested. They were three and five, a boy and a girl and his wife left him immediately. She had no idea. That was pretty clear from her public statements. She was very angry at him and devastated, devastated. I cannot imagine finding out this person who you love and are building a family with is a monster. I mean, a true monster. It's just this poor woman who must have had to go through years of therapy and make sure

her children were okay. So at the trial, well, there wasn't a trial, but he got arrested and he winds up pleading guilty. But then we get to the sentencing and the judge, though the judge did not give Jared the time you or I would have liked, which could have been up to 50 years. The judge did saddle him with more than the prosecution even recommended. And my understanding, Rochelle, is that that was in part due to your tapes and hearing the years of his admissions on them. Yes, that's exactly what I had been told. And that really gave me, you know, a gratifying feeling that those were not wasted years. It was very disappointing when I separated because I

wasn't able to get an agent and he just wouldn't, he wouldn't fight no matter what I said. And believe me, you know, we put forth great effort trying to get somebody else to take my place because it did ultimately take a toll on me, but I was willing to move forward. But it just, you know, I couldn't move forward anymore. Um, after he started engaging with my children. Right. And, and honestly, at that point, I'm sure your faith in the FBI is actually making an arrest was waning. It's like, how many years of this are I'm going to have to go through? This is going to be my whole life. It's going to be my children's whole life. You did your part. You definitely did your part. So he, he cops this plea. He's going to be my whole life. It's going to be my children's whole life. You did your part. You definitely did your part.

He cops this plea. He's in prison now until 2029. It's 2023. That's six years away. He's still going to be a relatively young man. Now, he knows. He knows

now about you. He knows it wasn't a friendship that you were taping him so that's got to be scary for you um it well it is uh in a sense it is because i've had all these years he has enough money if he wanted to do something he could have um easily hired someone um you see that all the time um my i share with you, my daughter had said to me, and I thought that she was a little overreacting, but she said to me years ago, she was terrified of Jared with his money, either he himself would do this or when he gets out of prison, that she felt as though he would rape and murder her and her brother.

And I said, no. I said, why would you think that? And she said, well, you essentially took his children away from him. Why would he not do the same to you? And so I posed that to the agent that I was working with. And the response really took me back. She said, she's not far off. And that was the end of it. And I still to this day, it's still very disturbing.

But it legitimized my daughter's feelings that she wasn't, she wasn't far off. So there's a lot of twists and turns that people don't realize that, you know, that are still in the shadows that we deal with every day. Forgive me for this question, but I should just ask you for the record. You never did provide any images or access to your children to Jared? Oh, oh no, no, not at all. And when I said, um, moments ago about his, my leaving, you know, cause I couldn't take his engaging with my children. That is through referencing his mentioning of my children because I never brought them up and I never gave any accurate names of their friends. I made up every name I ever used referring to a child because one day I knew he would be in court. And in hindsight, that those names being in line with a child that I was referencing, but really didn't have anything to do, they would end up have been subjected to going on the stand, being interviewed to make sure everything,

you know, was okay, that they weren't involved. So I made everything up from the names to everything so that that would never take place. He's 45 now, I guess he'll get out at age 51. That's still a relatively young man. You don't grow out of pedophilia. It does. It's a, it's a lifelong affliction. This is why so many people are like, well, how does he get out? Like, how do we keep them in? How do we make sure he doesn't hurt more children? And when he like, what reason do we have to believe he's not going to just pick back up where he left off when he gets out? First, he he has no remorse. He never did. And any of his comments, any of the articles that you read, anyone that he speaks to, he's only remorseful because he got caught.

And he's saying, oh, I made a big mistake. Big mistake. He never talks about what he did was wrong. He never talks about how sorry he feels for his victims. Never. Every single person, statistically speaking, that commits a sexual crime, that in their lifetime, they end up committing 179 on average sexual crimes. And I think he's well over that quota. But when he gets out, he will have a lifetime of supervision until what, something falls through the cracks? I don't know. So my hope is- You should be chemically castrated. There should be a mandatory chemical castration. Absolutely. Yep. Absolutely. Well, I'll become a

lobbyist and be right there to try to help move that along because I do believe that somebody, especially like him, needs that. If the FBI would release some of these recordings that you have never heard, you've not heard, that would undoubtedly be right there on the docket too to go through. There's worse than is in the docuseries? Oh, yes. Yes. You have to understand, I gave all of the recordings. It was only these recordings. I didn't save every recording. You know, initially, I was just giving them everything. And then I, the reason why I have those recordings was for my own protection, because I didn't want anything be used against me, and be thrown in as though,

you know, collateral damage, because they couldn't make a case. And then all of a sudden, even though I didn't do anything, you know, use these tapes again, you know, against me for any reason, there was nothing that indicated they would do that, but I'm one that thinks ahead. So I had made copies of those tapes for myself and I had every legal right to do so. They just didn't know that I made those copies. Oh, smart. So there's, okay. I didn't realize that. And that was also probably played for the judge, the most, the most graphic pieces of evidence. Possibly. Yes. We don't know. Yes. No, we don't know. And I think there's a lot that's redacted. I think, um, you know, these higher ups, these individuals in society, you

know, as I said earlier, political to Hollywood celebrities, who knows around the world, that also were friendly with Jared or that would talk maybe online and share ideas and, and children even because at one point, and this is just before I turned everything over to the FBI, Jared wanted me to meet him in Chicago. He wanted to, as he said, get a couple of kids. And he talked about underground clubs. He knew where to go. And that's when I was asking him, well, how would we get these kids? Where would we find them? Oh, well, we'll, you know, we'll figure it out. So I knew just the way he was saying it and, and leading towards it. He's done this before. He knows what he's doing. The FBI had told me that a pedophile has different fetishes, if you will. So they're A, B, and C.

Jared is truly an anomaly, something they've never seen before. He is the entire alphabet. So that is what prompted them in their review and rewriting of how to profile pedophiles. Do you know whether, I know on the phone, recordings we heard in the film, he's saying he went to Thailand and he's pretty explicit about what he allegedly did over there.

But then the docuseries also says that as far as we know, they couldn't find any evidence that he actually did go to Thailand. Well, that struck me as odd because you just look at his passport to find out whether he went to Thailand. That's knowable. So do we know whether that was true? And do we know whether there were actual children victims? I mean, as of course, the victims in the photos were were victims. But I mean, you know that he laid hands on children, actual children. Is is there evidence that I do not know? I know what he told me. I know her detail. You cannot make that up. I mean, there's too many minute details, reactions, conversations he's had,

even with this one particular boy, his parents, that this is what they do. This is how they make a living. They don't have a problem with it. Talking about the child, they want to do this, he would tell me. They want to. And there is proof that he went to Thailand because there are other production companies that are doing documentaries, or they were because I was scouted by a number of them over the years. And they had called upon me because of my work. And there are cases he went to Thailand, he went to Asia, different areas around the world. And he would go with the founder of subway he would go with some of the vendors from subway um as a group so whether they were uh conducting business or it was a pleasure trip that i do not know but there is actual evidence and proof that they did go i don't know if that's been halted or what or these documents these documentaries will come out here in short order, but they've been working

on them for the past two or three years. You mentioned Subway. I mean, we haven't even really touched on that piece of it. It's miraculous to me that this brand withstood this controversy, that the face of the brand turned out to be a serial pedophile. There's no other kind. And they're fine. They did fine. There was a question about whether they knew or had reason to know

that Jared had this issue with children. The docuseries touches on it a bit. His wife seemed to think that Subway had been given a heads up on at least one complaint about inappropriate behavior towards children. Subway denied that. But what do we know about Subway's knowledge, if any? I know for a fact Subway knows. I wrote them an email during one of my breaks, if you will. I had an emotional break one night. I remember being curled up on the couch and crying because of what I had just heard. And I said, that's enough. I wrote an email to Subway. I went on their corporate website. And once you hit submit, it's it's, you don't get a coffee because it wasn't through your own email

feed. So I sent it to them. And I told them that Jared was, you know, was a sex offender, that he had made comments about my children and that I know that he's doing these things. I forget verbatim exactly what I said. I do have notes in one of my journals that I could reference. But for a long time, Subway said, oh, we never we never received that. Well, a forensic investigation revealed otherwise by a third party. And then finally Subway stood up. Oh, we did find that email, but it didn't say anything about sexual nature. Well, why would I write Subway otherwise? To tell them I like their sandwiches?

I don't think so. So they did. And that was written in one of the articles. I do have a copy of that, but I'm sure that it can be, we found it easily online if you look, but you know, it's, it's very interesting. I've had some people approach me, um, you know, through, through messenger or whatnot. And, you know, a couple individuals, it was maybe three or four. They thought I did this for the money. Well, I never got paid for my time. And somebody, one person had read, oh, you did this. I bet you already are writing your wanted to make money and that was the way I was going to do it,

something so, you know, I don't even have a word to put to that, but why not go to Subway and, you know, ask, tell them, you know, well, I have information and I'm willing to settle out. Or that's a good point. I'm about to destroy your brand. It is absolutely. And Jared, Jared was a rich man. You could have gone to him. Yes, of course. And that's very clear. If you watch the arc of this story, you're not, but you should write a book because people need to know. I mean, this is a fascinating story and there's a lot to be learned. And that, that leads me to my next point. We mentioned at the beginning, the grooming behavior. So he would say, you know, you were sort of pretending that

you were fine with his predilections and you know, how could you be of assistance to him with it? And you were trying to learn about his methods and you did learn. So the part of the grooming, as I understood it from the film was he wanted you to make sure like you in grooming kids for him, you talked about inappropriate sexual things in front of them. So can you talk a little bit about that? Sure. Well, first he was always wanting to make sure I dressed accordingly, which I never did. I let him know that he wanted to know what kind of bathing suits I have. Do I have a really tiny bikini and to prance around, around the children when they, when they're over and to prance around, around the children when they're over and to pick out who I think would be best and their siblings.

So my children's friends and their siblings, the younger the better. And Jared initially, his statement to me was how hot he thought middle school girls were. At the end, it went from there all the way to infants to prepubescent. And you have them on tape saying the younger, the better. You'll hear that with your own ears. Sorry, go ahead. Tickling and wrestling and gradually getting closer to the private parts and then doing like a daring to, so it turned it into a game. He used his popularity, his, you know, himself being famous because there was such an allure and the children were so drawn, they get to meet someone famous.

And I saw that all the time. But he says in one of the clips about the one from the broken home. He was always, he had it figured out. And when he didn't, he would go with it and keep it as something that he just studied children on how to get closer and closer. And that's what his focus was. That was so disturbing. So now moms or single dads

who are raising kids by themselves now have to worry about their kids being singled out for targeting by a pedophile because they're from a quote, broken home, because they may have an extra sadness in their lives that some sick, twisted effort will take advantage. I mean, these are the realities that we have to wrestle with. And as exposed by your reporting and this story, but the inappropriate sex talk at a young age,

it is relevant, Rochelle. I mean, we're debating this right now on a national level about these books that are coming into the K through 12 education system. And some say, oh, they're banning books, you know, and I think the truth is they're not banning. They're pullingers, the people who want this in front of the children. And I see the point. Inappropriate sex talk before in front of children isn't just improper. It can actually lead to very dangerous things in that child's future. Oh, without a doubt. I mean, that's just any any, you know, base level psychologist counselor will tell you that. I mean, a lot of us don't have a degree in mental health, but they are taking some measures to remove this. But is it too little too late? I don't know.

Now, if you look, statistically speaking, over the years, homeschooling has grown dramatically as a personal choice. There's a number of reasons that people have made this choice. But from my understanding, a lot of it because it has to do with, you know, you see not just men, but women also violating children. Your educators, clergy, group leaders, politicians, even law enforcement. I know that there's a small amount, but small is not none. And that's where we need to get. Right. So these moms are like, I'm not putting my kid in the school and my kid's not joining the Boy Scouts and isn't going to be an altar boy. I mean, I can relate to some of that to some extent. It's just you're so, especially when they're really little and they can't really vocalize and they could be taken advantage of.

You have to be so careful. So, like, do we know about Jared, how he got this way, Rochelle? Has anybody been able to interview him or, you know, did you ever ask him, like, was he molested? I did ask him. He no he was not but I think that a lot of people if they were I don't think they're just going to come out and say that even if he was comfortable with me that if he was perhaps that um that just hit too too close to home. I can understand that. But I think personally that it's just within his genetic makeup. I think that there's a default in how he's wired. I think that's just whether it's an illness, I kind of think that it is. I would hope that it is in the sense that, you know, hopefully we can find a fix for it later or at some point. But he doesn't even acknowledge that there's a problem. And you asked me, you said about anyone interviewing him in this docu series, I gave the the producers and directors the idea. I said, well, why don't we close the docuseries with a face-off between Jared and I

at the facility that he's in because I would like some closure. I would like to say a few things to him. But they did send the request and he declined. But that is something that I would have been interested in doing because, you know, there's nothing easier than gauging somebody by their body language. Does he have any ongoing relationship with his parents? Do you know what that situation is? I don't, I don't i don't know um i think i believe his mom

was a teacher his father's a doctor um probably retired now but from all information that has been dispersed out there is he had a very good upbringing um you know, prominent family, uh, really no money issues. So they didn't have, have that aspect. So I don't know why Jared has done what he's done, but I have heard, um, and this is secondhand. So there, but people that went to school with Jared, um, college, for example, he, he would, I was told that he would sell pornography to make some extra money um and he made quite a business doing that so they also talk about how yes he was morbidly obese from a young age that he had no friends in high school you know there's a reason he got famous for losing 245 pounds he had it to lose and then And then some had, you know, enough left over. It's like 245 pounds. What's left? A large man. So he was very, very large. And I do think there's when you're that kind of an eater from what, 350, 400 pounds and has absolutely no friends.

That's, that's not a good parent. That is not a good set of parents. Something, something was wrong in that house. Um, all right. So a couple of questions for you as now we're thinking about his release is, do we know if there's any chance he's getting out earlier than 2029? No, he cannot. He's not allowed to get out earlier.

According to the stipulations, the judge had set down. getting out earlier than 2029? No, he cannot. He's not allowed to get out earlier according to the stipulations the judge had set down. Is there any chance he could face other charges? You know, I know I've seen you reaching out saying, if you are a victim of Jared Vogel's, reach out to me because there may be children who have been molested by him who haven't yet come forward? Absolutely. In my mind, and from my experience, that is an actual fact. There are. They're adults now. Perhaps they're just trying to keep it in the shadows, in the recesses of their mind. That is not healthy. You will not be all you can be, and you won't have a truly fulfilling life unless you address what had happened.

And the fact is, is that it did happen. And if you come out and you step forward, you know, I could be and give you my shoulders, my strength, my voice, to help to be able to disseminate and set this into the areas. I know the FBI has a great place that you can go on their website and report things. But if anyone is hearing this and they are a victim of Jared Fogles, please,

I, I really, I really must insist that you please step forward and share what happened because it can make a difference. It can keep him behind bars where he needs to be because the day he is released is the day society is going to be in grave danger. And I truly believe that. Me too.

So what are you doing now? Are you still doing radio and journalism? It seems like some of your work has shifted to advocacy on behalf of kids now and writing books to help sound the alarm for families. Yes. I had stepped away. The FBI had asked me or told me two years ago, I had to leave my business and eliminate all my original contact information so that, because Jared had that same contact information. So all of that had to go away. Um, when Jared was arrested,

because they actually was before when, before Jared was arrested, when I ended my work with the FBI. Um, so everything had to end. And so I went off into a different arena, um, for, for a while. And then I had fallen ill, um, for, for quite a while and was bedridden for about three years. But what? Yes. Yes. I slipped at a job that I was doing. I was team leader for Keller Williams in Sarasota. And I had slipped, broke my ankle, and I came down with RSD, which is now it's reflex sympathetic dystrophy.

It's a.k.a. the suicide disease, the world's most painful chronic condition. I've learned to disseminate the pain. And that's another book that I'm working on, actually, on how to teach people how to do what I've done, because I still have it to this day but what I am now doing and I am going to start doing podcasts and get back on on terrestrial radio again because MTV possible that's really where I I did my best work and where I would like to be since this docu-series under contract so it's one year from the date of airing before I can do any of that. But in the meanwhile, I am writing I have three three books pertaining to child advocacy for for child sexual abuse that goes from it goes one about the story, you know, in the mind of a monster.

And that's going to be all these other areas that I haven't been able to share because there's just not enough time. So I'm going to be, that's all in that book. And, you know, all the behind the scenes and, you know, everything that happened during my time with the FBI. But then the other another book that I'm writing is for children. And it's going to be it is actually because I'm about halfway through, but it's about it's a workbook on how to strategically position themselves to be their own superhero and you know with between knowing the signs of a predator and what good play and bad play is um i actually am going to be putting it on my site just the outline of where i'm at and and exactly what is happening with my writing.

So that I, cause I'm still in the process. So I would love feedback from the public. So I will share some of that so that it can be written into the best possible workbook out there that I'm hoping at some point, not just for personal use, but that can also be implemented in school criteria as well.

And then another one is for caregivers and parents to know the warning signs. Because when someone is being abused, whether it's the elderly, or they're manipulated, or a child, they're very silent. You don't recognize what's really going on in most cases. A lot of times you do, you just see something that's off. But it's like asking of elderly that are not only abused by personal caregivers in their home, but in facilities as well. Trusted employees that, you know, the people are putting hidden cameras in the rooms because they sense something is off. Well, this is all great work. I mean, this clearly is your life's work. This is going to make a difference in people's lives. I do have to ask you, you know, now with him in jail, with the story out there, any regrets? Like, if you had it to do over again, would you?

Oh, absolutely. Without a doubt. There's other cases that I'm working on, as a matter of fact. They're not child sexual abuse cases. They're very diverse in nature. But there are other cases that have presented themselves to me. I'm all in. And, you know, law enforcement has always been, you know, open arms with me. And I am so happy that I am received that way because when I came out after Jared was initially arrested, I felt as though, wow, you know, a whistleblower that, you know, they're going to want to keep me at arm's length. They're going to think less of me. And years pass and I have come to find out because they've told me themselves, absolutely not, that they greatly respect the work that I did.

And, you know, and I still continue my work today. I'm so glad to hear that. And I'm so glad to meet you. Rochelle, thank you for telling your story and for all that you've done. Oh, I appreciate you, Megan, very much. And I want to thank you and all your listeners for the opportunity to be here today. Thank you very much. All the best to you and your family. Thank you. Isn't she amazing? This is a story. Oh, my God. Tomorrow, we have an equally fascinating

discussion on cults. We've got the personal story from two guests of what it's like to be in a cult and to get out of one. You will not want to miss this. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.