The Megyn Kelly Show - Inside the Mind: Idaho College Murders and Bryan Kohberger, Megyn Kelly Show Special - Part Three | Ep. 690

Episode Date: December 20, 2023

In today's third episode of a special edition of The Megyn Kelly Show focused on the psyche and mind of Bryan Kohberger, Megyn Kelly takes you deep inside the quadruple murder at the University of Idaho, and the suspect, Kohberger. In part three, she explores Kohberger's life growing up, his bizarre and disturbing social media postings, his college projects focused on criminology and criminals, whether Kohberger posted online about the case after the murders, what was found in his house, and more. Using original interviews, source material, the writing and reporting of famed journalist Howard Blum, and more, this is a Megyn Kelly Show five-part series like nothing else before.More from Blum: https://www.howardblum.com/ Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. I'm stuck in the depths of my mind where I have to constantly battle my demons. Am I here or am I fake? I feel myself slipping away. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. And welcome to Episode 3 of a special edition of the show focused on the fascinating and disturbing case of Brian Kohlberger and the quadruple murder in a sleepy college Idaho town last year. We started the week diving into the gruesome stabbings and got to know the victims a bit.

Yesterday, we walked through how Kohlberger was identified and the incredible series of events that led to his arrest. Today, we take a look at who Brian Kohlberger is, the man accused of this barbaric crime, atrocities which he denies having anything to do with. As we bring you that story, we are thrilled to rely in part on the fantastic writing and reporting by journalist and author Howard Bloom, who covered the Idaho murders in great detail for Air Mail News. Bloom's forthcoming book on the case will be published in the spring by HarperCollins.

Brian Christopher Kohlberger is 28 years old, but the quotes I read you at the beginning of this episode are from way back in 2011, when he was just 16. It has been reported by multiple outlets, including Bloom in Air Mail, that Kohlberger wrote often on an early social media platform called Tapatalk. He described a condition he had, or claimed to have, known as visual snow. It's something I discussed with Bloom when he was a guest on The Megyn Kelly Show in March. Doctors can't even agree on whether visual snow is a psychological state or a disease. And since they can't agree on what it is, they also differ on how to treat it or if it can be treated. The best sources I've found for any

insight into this are really in novels. Camus' The Stranger opens up with a character who talks about feeling nothing that eventually leads to a murder on the beach. Sartre, in one of his novels, writes about a character that has the same sort of disassociation from the world. It's existentialism on one level, and it's also dislocation from the world on another. And if everything means less than zero, as Elvis Costello sings, then you can do anything. Anything is unjustified because it doesn't matter. From Bloom's reporting, they are the raw, bedeviling forces that drove him,

he explains, to contemplate suicide. They are the painful demons, he wails to a friend, that drove him to search for a sort of relief by mainlining heroin. And at the root of all his swirling emotions, he diagnoses in the online postings with an unwavering certainty, is visual snow. Visual snow is a rare but very real and chronic neurological condition. To those who suffer from it, the world is viewed through a glass, darkly. It's like looking at a television screen and the picture's fluttering. The image is obscured by amorphous, grayish waves and scattering, flickering dots. But is it a disease or is it a psychological condition?

Doctors, according to the sparse literature, throw up their hands in frustrated confusion. They just don't know. And what can't be diagnosed is even more difficult to treat. But for the teenage Brian Kohlberger, if his online posts are any reliable guide, visual snow had at times buried his existence in an avalanche of despondency and desperation. His posts were calls from the wild. Some of Koberger's most telling teenage posts give us a window into who he might become. We have voiced them over here. October 29th, 2010. I have completely disconnected from reality. I feel all the time that I'm living in disconnected from reality.

I feel all the time that I'm living in my own reality. It seems as if my brain chemistry is altered from this, even though I am certain it's not. First, I felt very uninterested in the things I usually like to do. But then it changed to the point I saw no reason for anything, and everything became boring to me. It feel at times completely disconnected. And as if I can't live like a normal person. When I think about my future, I think about how I will barely remember my mother and father, etc. Because I have an altered memory and also have been unable to think of them due to the 10 things I think about non-stop all at once. Visual snow, altered brain, tinnitus, disappointment, regret, etc. I think that possibly I could have brought

this onto myself from post-traumatic stress disorder or something similar, but I can't tell what it is. I remember how it was before and remember that I felt like it before. It is all real bullshit. If I have any chemistry change, I have this detox program that can fix it. May 12, 2011. I always feel as if I am not there, completely depersonalized. Mentally, I experience fog. Lack of comprehension at some times.

Feel like my life is a movie. Depersonalization. Depression. No interest in activity. Constant thought of suicide. Crazy thoughts. Delusions of grandeur. Anxiety.

Poor self-image. Poor social skills. No emotion. I feel like nothing has a point to it. When I get home, I am mean to my family. This started when VS, or visual snow, did. I felt no emotion, and along with the depersonalization, I can say and do whatever I want with little remorse.

Everyone hates me. Pretty much. I am an asshole. July 4th, 2011. I've had this horrible depersonalization go on in my life for almost two years. I often find myself making simple human interactions, but it is as if I'm playing a role-playing games such as Oblivion. I can see what is going on. I am slightly into it, but I can pause the game and focus on my real life. In this case, my life is the game and my old self can be reached by pausing the game. But how? I often think of things that humans do, things I have done my whole life. I feel like an organic sack of meat with no self-worth, as I am starting to view everything as this. Everything I have ever done makes no sense.

How did things get this way? How am I wearing this shirt? And who decided that humans shall wear shirts like this? Are we all just advanced animals with possession? Or is there more? More that I can't see? I can't connect. I view everything as if I would if I was playing Oblivion. Pointless and full of nothing.

Out of reality. I'm moving out of my house. My last holidays were already lived. But where was I? As my family group hugs and celebrates, I'm stuck in this void of nothing. Feeling completely no emotion. Feeling nothing. I feel dirty, like there is dirt inside my head.

My mind. I am always dizzy and confused. I feel no self-worth. I am intelligent, but I feel the opposite. I say things I don't mean. The last holiday in my house, the house I grew up in, the house I once contributed to, the house I once fell at home in, is past. As I hug my family, I look into their faces. I see nothing. It is like I am looking at a video game, but less. I feel less than mentally damaged. It is like I have severe brain damage.

I am stuck in the depths of my mind, where I have to constantly battle my demons. Am I here, or am I fake? I feel myself slipping away. I hear screams faintly, but I constantly battle away from it. What if I let go? Where would I be? Would I ever come back to reality? I try to remember where I originated from, but I can't. I barely remember my childhood. I often fear being 80 years old and having faint memories of my parents, everything I missed out on. I think about my father, what a good man he is, how I treat him like dirt because I have this condition

and I can't take it. I might spiral out of control and lose myself in the void. I can't let it all go, all of these regrets I predict for my future self, all of these thoughts of remorse. I got this when I was in my stage of discovery. Now I look in the mirror and I see this sickly, tired, useless, and stupid man in the mirror. He is a complete disgrace. He doesn't even deserve to live. I remember when I was 15, I would wander alone at 2 a.m. Everything was so generic. Nowhere felt like home. I saw things that were not there. A different reality. I felt eerie and alone. I died during those nights. I felt like a criminal. But where was my record? I can't talk about flinching now. I used to be this

healthy, blonde-haired boy with blue eyes, and in a few years I have darker hair and darker eyes. Half the body weight. Where did I leave off? I try to sleep. I try to clear my head, but the pressure won't go away. The pain and depression won't leave. Being me is this horrible disease that I was given. I think of this as I succumb to sleep, but I see a large intensity of black, yellow, white fuzz. It makes my mind fizzle, and I can barely keep in the bounds of reality. It is as if the ringing in my ears and the fuzz in my vision is simply all of the demons in my head mocking me. I fall asleep but I wake up quickly to bloody screams. Is any of this here? Am I brain damaged? No. Then why am I like this? I have these thoughts all in my head. I search for someone to relate to me. Everyone

looks down upon me. No one can relate. As I try to read, suddenly my eyes look right through the words. When I look up, I see blue dots near the center of my vision. When I feel slightly calm, it gets hard to breathe and I see bright dots in my vision. Nothing I do is enjoyable. December 19th, 2011. I have had this for over two years and I have had it bad in every single way. Not one night have I slept normal since and I feel like I'm trapped here. I have been able to block it out for a while now, but I realized what is wrong and it suddenly becomes unbelievable. I'm desensitized in every way now. People say there are supposed to be the years I enjoy and cherish. Well, I can't say I cherish these days. These posts paint a picture of a severely depressed, disturbed young man, riddled with pain, feeling himself, quote, slipping away from the bounds of normality,

constantly burdened by visual snow and the sound of screaming. Torture. And it wasn't just the posts on Tapatalk. As Bloom lays out, there was also bristling anger uncovered by internet sleuths who have traced his teenage email to a posting on SoundCloud. 11 years ago, Kohlberger's defiant moods took flight in a howling rap song. You are not my equal. You are evil, but I'm the devil, he challenges. Listen. Go end your life. You get no sequel. Leave your love for one's crime like some seagulls. You are not my equal. You are evil, but I'm people. And now I'm going regal. Of course, Bloom writes, these posts and lyrics are the work of a teenager. More than a decade has flown by since they were written.

Nevertheless, perhaps the anguished posts and the ferocious song are also a warning. Out of words come events. The future cannot exist without having been envisioned in the past, and one more puzzlement in this case must be confronted. Are these teenage thought dreams the intimations of an adult's future? During high school, reports suggest Kohlberger was a bit of a misfit and an outcast. He was overweight. And according to friends who knew him at the time, he fell into drugs, first marijuana, and then heroin. He began focusing on eating healthier, found kickboxing, began to lose weight in the process. Here's high school friend, Jack Bayless,

speaking to local NBC affiliate, King 5 TV. He was definitely heavier set and that, that caused issues in school. I believe it was the weight loss first. We lost first and I was, you know, I want to say 14 to maybe 16 between there was the, the big weight loss. I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure that was what it was. And then it was the drugs. He got in drugs, um, via, um, uh, an acquaintance of his. It was, it was definitely heroin. It was pretty darnly. But Kohlberger was able to straighten his life out, or so it seemed. Whether his internal anguish ever abated is a much trickier question,

as we discussed with Howard Bloom. Everyone has talked about how he seems to be planning the murders so carefully, doing this and that. I think he was really spending the past year at least trying to overcome all his internal demons to not try to find a way to prevent himself from killing people. I mean, up to this point, he's made a remarkable recovery from a young man, a teenager who used heroin. He's gotten into a junior college and succeeds

to get into college and winds up at a very reputable graduate school in criminal justice where he's a teaching assistant. He's doing everything. He's pushed his father out of his life. Now he's taking his father back in the life. They're going to make a cross-country trip home for Christmas. He's doing all this, and at the same time, he knows who he is and how he will always be an outsider, and he's trying to find his way in, and he really can't. I think that's also an untold story, part speculation at this point that we want to try to get more of come June. This man who sees himself as someone more sinned against than sinning and that his life is in his way a horror story. It's also a tragedy, too.

After Kohlberger graduated high school, he went to college at DeSales University in Pennsylvania. He got his bachelor's degree in 2020 and a master's degree in criminal justice in 2022. One professor of his, Dr. Michelle Bolger, who advised Kohlberger on his master's thesis in the criminal justice department at DeSales University, she's very well respected, told the Daily Mail reporter he was a brilliant student. Quote, in my 10 years of teaching, she raved, I've only recommended two students to a PhD program, and he was one of them. He was one of my best students ever, end quote. The Mysterious Case of Rudolph Diesel by Doug Brunt. It's officially a New York Times bestseller,

as well as an Apple Book of the Year, an Audible Book of the Year. It's even been optioned for a movie. Rave reviews from The Times, The Journal, Publishers Weekly, and more, calling Diesel a wildly enjoyable ride. It is a page-t turning thriller about the greatest caper of the 20th century, all involving a man whose name you likely see at the gas station every day, but probably had no idea was at the center of one of the greatest mysteries of all time. Don't miss out on the book everyone's talking about. It will make the perfect gift.

The mysterious case of Rudolph Diesel. Here's more from those who knew him, including friends and classmates. He wanted to do something that impacted people in a good way. People were not his strong suit and I think through his criminology studies he was really trying to understand humans and try to understand himself. I think a lot of people who were close to him are feeling this massive amounts of guilt. Why didn't I see it? Did I miss something? Where did it go wrong? He seemed very comfortable around other people. He was fairly quick to offer his opinion and

thoughts, and he was always participating fairly eagerly in classroom discussions. Does anything else come to mind that Brian said to you in the past that today you think might be of interest? There was a comment that he made, and it was this kind of a flippant guy talk thing. At one point, he just idly mentioned, you know, I can go down to a ball or a club and just have pretty much any lady I want. Looking back over the last four months is that I feel like those should have been signs that I should have seen. And I didn't. I was blindsided. While Kohlberger may have bragged about his luck with the ladies, no girlfriend has emerged at all from any point.

One woman posted a TikTok about a date she says she had a single date with Kohlberger, which did not go well. We matched on Tinder. We talked for a couple hours and then he was like, hey, you want to go to the movies with me tonight? And I was like, sure. We ended up going back to my dorm and he kind of invited himself inside. He kept trying to touch me, not like inappropriately, just like trying to tickle me and like rub my shoulders and stuff and I was like why are you touching me or what are you doing and he would just like get super serious and he's like I'm not and I'm like you are though and he's like I'm not

touching you kind of like trying to gaslight me into thinking that he didn't touch me which is weird um but then I was like I'm just gonna run to the bathroom quick and he was like okay and then he followed me to the bathroom um which I thought was kind of weird so I proceeded to pretend to throw up um to get him leave. He ended up messaging me on Tinder that he was going to go. And I was like, awesome. My plan worked. And then about an hour later, he texted me and said I had good birthing hips. Some who observed him in his role as a teaching assistant saw a man anything but comfortable. When he was standing in front of the class, it was like he was, you know, in a box. He was very, I don't know, uncomfortable,

I guess. Like it felt like he was perpetually uncomfortable. Though Koberger's online postings appeared to stop, those ones we went over when he was about 16, his criminal justice studies brought more public outreach, like the Reddit post from his time at DeSales asking for research participation from criminals. Some criminologists say it's pretty standard for the field to send things like this out, but still, it's chilling when you know

what he would later be accused of. Hello, my name is Brian, he writes, and I am inviting you to participate in a research project that seeks to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision-making when committing a crime. In particular, this study seeks to understand the story behind your most recent criminal offense

with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience. In the event that your most recent criminal offense, with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience. In the event that your most recent offense was not one that led to a conviction, you may still participate. What sort of questions did Kohlberger ask? Here's what was uncovered from the survey itself. Questions included the following.

Did you struggle with or fight the victim? Did you prepare for the crime before leaving your home? Please detail what you were thinking and feeling at this point. How did you travel to and enter the location that the crime occurred? After arriving, what steps did you take prior to locating the victim or target? Please detail your thoughts and feelings. Why did you choose that victim or target over others? Before making your move, how did you approach the victim or target? Please detail what you were thinking and feeling. What was the first move you made in order to accomplish your goal?

Please detail any thoughts and feelings at this point. Before leaving, is there anything else you did? How did you leave the scene? After committing the crime, what were you thinking and feeling? After DeSales, Kohlberger moved west, a criminology doctoral student now at Washington State University. He began the program in the fall of 2022, mere months before the murders in the neighboring state. Almost immediately upon his arrival in Washington, he applied for an internship at the nearby Pullman Police Department.

In the application essay, which Idaho cops later shared, Kohlberger, with apparent self-affirming pride, wrote that he had an interest in assisting rural law enforcement agencies with how to better collect and analyze technological data in public safety operations. So what should we make of Kohlberger's interest in criminology and his attempts to work with local police? It's a question I asked CIA officer and expert in deception, Phil Houston, earlier this year. In my mind, this fits into the category of what we call countermeasure behavior. So it's starting out, you know, very early. And what I mean by early

is there's still months off from a killing, but in his mind, he may well have had a something in his mind that he was going to do that was bad. So joining the police department or having some connection by the police department in his mind might very likely have served two purposes. First of all, from the persuasion context, he's an insider now. Why would anyone look at him immediately as the perpetrator? And then secondly, if he's inside, it's possible he may get some access to what's going on in the investigation, to details of the investigation

that may give him some early warning if the police do start to, you know, zero in on him. It does not appear Kohlberger ever landed that police internship. However, he did have a meeting with the chief of police. Inside Edition obtained an email exchange between Kohlberger and Gary Jenkins, the top cop in Pullman, Washington at the time.

Quote, it was a great pleasure to meet with you today and share my thoughts and excitement regarding the research assistantship for public safety, wrote Kohlberger. Great to meet and talk to you as well, responded Jenkins. Jenkins would go on to take a job as the campus chief of police at Washington State University, the force that would later help identify Kohlberger's vehicle as the one police believed was seen leaving the murder site that evening. After the murders, Kohlberger may have returned to an old habit, posting about himself online. You see, there was massive interest in this case online, and several reporters believe Kohlberger himself was among the crew on social media openly discussing the case. One Facebook user named Papa

Roger was a regular poster in a discussion group about the murders. One of his posts seemed to indicate he knew something about the circumstances of the murder, or at least took a very lucky guess. Quote, of the evidence released, the murder weapon has been consistent as a large fixed blade knife. This leads me to believe they found the sheath, he wrote. This was before there were public reports that police had indeed found the knife sheath inside that house. Meanwhile, on Reddit, in the Moscow Murders group, Moscow being the town where the killings took place, one user named Inside Looking seemed to have inside details about the method behind the murders. Quote, speculation, it began. Quote, killer parked

behind the house, approached property through tree line, entered sliding door and left it open, committed murders and exited sliding door. One knife, according to the coroner's statement. Time of murder, approximately 3.20 a.m. to 3.40 a.m., according to car fleeing scene and on camera on Highway 8, approximately 3.45 a.m. Vehicle left skid marks upon exit, end quote. Since Kohlberger was arrested and held without bail, Papa Roger and Inside Looking have not posted on Facebook or Reddit. Right now, get the Sirius XM app for free for three months. Hear over 425 expertly curated channels, including ad-free music for every genre, artist, mood, and more. Hear concerts featuring the biggest names in iconic venues and exclusive in-studio performances.

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Plus, the latest headlines and in-depth reporting from around the world, including politics from every angle. All of this and more is available now. Go to SiriusXM.com slash MKShow to subscribe and get three months free. Offer details apply. As one might suspect, Brian Kohlberger's troubles were not limited to his head. His interactions with women were awkward and at times inappropriate, as we alluded to earlier. There were reports of him getting kicked out of a high school vocational law enforcement program after complaints from several girls. Creepy interactions with women in college. And more

recently, Dateline of NBC reported Kohlberger befriended a female colleague at Washington State who contacted him after she thought someone had broken into her apartment. Kohlberger helped her, reports NBC, by installing security cameras at her place. According to Dateline, authorities believed it was Kohlberger himself who had broken into that apartment and that he installed the cameras so that he would be able to spy on this young woman, or perhaps something even more sinister. Former FBI criminal profiler Candace DeLong was a guest on this program in January 2023,

and she had this to say about Kohlberger and women. One of the things I find interesting and possibly telling, a lot of female friends from high school, college, and even recently in his grad program talk about him, various things to say. No former girlfriend or former intimate person has come forward, possibly because, you know, it could be, oh my gosh, you know, was I wrong to be involved with this guy? But I wonder if he simply hasn't had an intimate relationship, a romantic relationship. And the reason I think that is, without question, this was a targeted murder. And one of the victims, the two blondes, was brutalized, stabbed many more times than the other one. I think she was probably the target. One of the things that I think of

regarding, pardon me, motivation is, was this motive, there was no sexual assault, but there was certainly a display of anger and rage and possibly revenge. There are many murders, and it's happening more lately, by men murdering women in this way, anger, multiple stab wounds. It's not, it's rarely a gunshot. It's stabbing someone, of course, is in their face, personal, I hate you, I hate you, that kind of thing. And that's what we see here. So I am wondering if he well, there's actually a term for it, Megan, and it's in cell, which stands for involuntarily celibate. So no lovers that we know of, never mind girlfriends. But what of his family? His mother, Marianne, worked at the same local school district as his father. She was an aide for special needs students.

He has two older sisters, Amanda and Melissa, the latter of whom was a mental health therapist. Some reports indicate that both sisters were fired from their jobs after Brian's arrest. And what about his father, the maintenance worker? The one who flew out to make that long trip across the country with Brian as the FBI was tracking him? More here from my interview with Howard Bloom. Here's his father. He's 67 years old, doesn't have a ton of money. Clearly, he's a janitor. He's been to fly out to first, you got to go to Seattle. Then you got to fly on another flight into Washington, Pullman, go across country, and then you're going to quickly make a turnaround. And he's looking, I think, and this is what people told me, to try to get back, make amends with his son.

Say, you know, you were on the wrong path. I tried to set you right. There was a great deal of antagonism between us. But now things are hunky dory. This is a bright future. You're going to have a good playing job. You're going to be a professor. All things are good. Little does he know what's going on in his son's world. I think this trip across America, his father to son journey is the center of its own interesting little drama. That trip took Brian back to his childhood home and to the place where police would ultimately

arrest him. Reports were that upon making their dynamic entry, police found Kohlberger awake just before 1.30 a.m. wearing rubber gloves and packing his trash into Ziploc bags. He did not resist, and the police effected a search of the premises. From his parents' home, police recovered a cell phone, a laptop, two containers of a green leafy substance, along with black face masks, a black hat, and several articles of dark colored clothing, along with a book with underlining on page 118, as well as a Glock 22, 40 caliber handgun, and empty magazines. They also found a Smith and Wesson pocket knife and more. Back at Kohlberger's student residence in Washington state, police searched as well,

retrieving a stained mattress cover, a computer tower, various receipts, the dust container from a Bissell power force vacuum cleaner, a fire TV stick with a cord and plug, and what's described as one possible animal hair strand. His childhood home and his graduate student housing both poured through by police looking for any clue as to why, how, anything tying Kohlberger to this crime. The home of his boyhood unhappiness and the adult home to what seemed a new kind of grievance and a freedom now to act on it. Retired FBI profiler James Fitzgerald. Ted Kaczynski was about the same age when he launched his first bomb in Chicago and four of them right after that. Some people, it takes longer to mature in terms of their criminal sophistication or devolve in terms of their psychological disorders. And I'm not clinically

saying that. So who knows exactly what happened? I think a big factor with BK is that I think he grew up in Northeastern Pennsylvania. I'm from Philadelphia originally. I know that area. He went to school a little bit away from there. But look what he finally did at the age of 28 or so. He travels 2,500 miles across country.

He's far away now, finally, from the tentacles of his parents, of his familial upbringing, the home, the neighborhood where he grew up. And he may be thinking for the first time, I am finally on my own. I can do what I want. I don't have any daily reporting or weekend reporting to any parents or authority figures. This is my opportunity. It doesn't mean he moved out there consciously to kill four people. It's just that it was a Jupiter aligning with Mars, with a few other planets in there. And of course, not in a good way. We have really this, I say, hodgepodge or mishmash of all kinds of personality issues finally coming together

for him. And again, for some people, that happens in a good way. You know what? I'm finally going to college. I'm finally going to join the military, graduate school, whatever. This guy, it was about paying back sort of a, as we call it, a grievance collector. Some psychologists use that term. All these grievances that built up, the foundations were laid brick by brick by brick, and it's finally hit sort of this crescendo in, of all places, Moscow, Idaho, and this aligns at the same time, and these poor four victims are the ones to pay the price for the alleged grievances placed against him. Grievance, and perhaps the related emotion of envy. We're going to get to

that soon. Of course, this all presumes that Kohlberger is in fact guilty. But what if? What if? Next episode, the prosecution's case against Brian Kohlberger, plus Kohlberger's defense. It may be better than you think. We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.