The Megyn Kelly Show - Investigating the Nolan Wells Story, and How Crump and Sharpton Have Racialized It, with Aronberg, Murphy, Aidala, and Caitlyn Becker | Ep. 1365

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Megyn Kelly begins the show by breaking down the latest developments in the death of 18-year-old Mississippi teen Nolan Wells, the evidence that points to drowning, the major questions that are still remaining about what may have happened, the introduction of race into the story through Benjamin Crump and Al Sharpton, and more. Then Caitlyn Becker, host of "NY POSTcast," joins to discuss the release of Nolan Wells' family's private autopsy results, why the cause and manner of death remain undetermined, the contemptible way Crump and Sharpton are pushing a racial narrative, social media posts and a key image connected to the Nolan Wells mystery, why investigators are still awaiting a full autopsy and complete investigation, and more. Then Dave Aronberg, host of The MK True Crime Show, Matt Murphy, host of In The Well, and Arthur Aidala, host of The Arthur Aidala Power Hour, join to discuss how Ben Crump and Al Sharpton are undermining the Nolan Wells case, the total lack of evidence of a crime, Karmelo Anthony's lawyers' attempt at getting him a new trial, their claims about an "off the record" gentleman's agreement that prosecutors violated, the crucial question of why Anthony didn't testify in his defense, new exclusive reporting about why Sunny Hostin's son was handcuffed after allegedly trespassing on railroad tracks, Hostin was using her "privilege" to get him out of trouble, Timothy Busfield's strange comment in court about his potential misconduct with young boys, whether prosecutors will and should drop the charges, and more.   Subscribe to MK True Crime to find ALL the shows: Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mk-true-crime/id1829831499 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4o80I2RSC2NvY51TIaKkJW YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MKTrueCrime?sub_confirmation=1     Becker- https://nypost.com/ny-postcast/ Aidala- https://am970theanswer.com/radioshow/the-arthur-aidala-power-hour Aronberg: https://substack.com/@davearonberg Murphy: https://www.instagram.com/mattmurphylaw   Supersure Insurance: Upgrade your business insurance to a year-round SuperAgency at https://Supersure.com/Megyn Relief Factor: Reclaim your mobility and celebrate your freedom from aches this year by grabbing your $17.76 3-week QuickStart at https://ReliefFactor.com or by calling 800-4-RELIEF. Birch Gold: Text MK to 989898 and get your free info kit on gold Byrna: Go to https://Byrna.com or your local Sportsman's Warehouse today.     Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKelly Twitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShow Instagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShow Facebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at:https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East. Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show. Kelly's court is back in session on the docket today, several hot-button topics. We will discuss whether the judge should throw out the trespassing violation against Sonny Hosten's son Gabriel. We'll also take a close look at new court documents filed in Carmelo Anthony's murder conviction appeal. his lawyers are blaming the prosecution for the fact that Carmelo never took the stand in his own defense, and the DA in the case is now speaking out. We'll show you that. But we begin with new developments in a story getting a lot of attention right now, and that is the death of 18-year-old Nolan Wells, a Mississippi college freshman whose disappearance after a 4th of July boat trip has become a national story. immediately after Nolan went missing on July 4th, but before his body was found, his parents had suspicions about the friends he went out partying with that day, most of whom were white, alleging conflicting accounts among friends. Nolan was black and the possibility that messages had been deleted from Nolan's phone. Possibility, not established fact. They were also suspicious about how his phone,

made it back onto his friend's boat, the friends returned to shore without Nolan, but Nolan did not. Why would Nolan separate from his phone and why would his friends have the phone but not Nolan? They also say local authorities were too quick to believe that this was an accident. This is the parents expressing their doubts, Nolan's parents, instead of launching a full investigation. The parents believe that they can't trust the local authorities. and believing that they reached out for help and of course made the critical error of turning to Benjamin Crump and Al Sharpton,

which completely changed this entire case because if you want to be taken seriously by most of the country, you should never reach out to those two race hustlers or no one will take you seriously again. No one will not, no one will be able to look at anything those two say through an objective lens.

So this was a terrible, terrible mistake by parents, I'm sure, are extremely distraught and were probably confused about where to turn and perhaps did not know about the extremely sordid history of these two race hustlers who have a long established history of being proven liars on race, of injecting it where it doesn't belong, of inflating it into something more than it actually is. You name it, they've done it. while getting rich off of the goodwill of people in the black community and the white community for that matter and beyond, who are convinced by their lies. Nolan's mysterious death has now turned into insinuations of murder, possibly by the white boys. He was with who, as far as we can tell, were his best friends on earth, absolutely loved to. adored Nolan and are getting blamed for his death because they're white and they're from Mississippi. I'm sorry, it's beyond deafed up. Right now, this looks like a terrible tragedy that needs to be investigated because it is unclear what happened to Nolan after he stayed

behind. But there is zero evidence. His friends hurt him. Zero, zero. And the witch hunt for the white boys from Mississippi is a bit much. The answer to the loss of one young boy's life is not abject, unfounded, ruination of all of his friend's lives because the decedent is black and their survivors are white. With zero proof, they laid one finger on him. Again, all the evidence so far seems to be that they loved and adored him. and he them.

Nolan Wells was last seen alive on Horn Island. It's an island 10 miles from Mississippi. The only way to reach it is by boat. Nolan had gone there with his friends that he knew from high school and childhood. They arrived on this island on July 4th around 11 o'clock a.m. Warren Hudson says that he was Nolan's best friend. He was with Nolan on Horn Island on July 4th.

In a new interview with conservative host host Brandon Tatum. Warren says the group of friends traveled to the island in three separate boats and that Nolan was drinking alcohol that day. We had roughly 20 to 30 people coming on three separate boats with us. So we were all following each other out there as one big group. You know, it wasn't just me and Nolan and a couple of my buddies. There was 20 or 30 people spread out where we all met at the dock before and then we departed to go to horn island it wasn't just a couple of us i mean we were there were so many people we had to split up between three boats and we all left and all got there at the same time roughly probably two to three maybe even four

thousand people out there there were boats lined up off the island everybody's drinking you know i mean it's fourth of july everyone's just trying to enjoy themselves and you know it's a big party basically big party i talked to nolan and you know no one was drinking everybody was drinking, most of everybody. And I mean, Nolan seemed completely fine every time I talked to him. We had just regular conversations. And, you know, no one was making me laugh. I talked to Nolan a couple times, but it wasn't like I was strictly sitting there talking to Nolan the whole day. I mean, there was hundreds of people I knew out there. Nolan's friends say they last saw Nolan around 3 p.m. on the island. Warren Hudson's stepmother

said that she was told, she had a Facebook post, two of them, said she was told that Nolan decided to stay on the island after a boat carrying some of the boys left earlier because that boat was taking on water. She said there was a problem with the bilge pump and there actually is a call by these boys, two of the authorities saying, we think we're sinking. Can we get some help out here? The belief by the friends who were leaving was that since they all came out on three boats that Nolan would get a ride back on one of the remaining boats. It was not a big deal to them. However, Nolan never made it back to the mainland. A massive search was launched that evening. The next day, on Sunday, Nolan's mother posted several images of Nolan from July 4th asking

anyone for help. One of those images were showing here. Later that same day, it shows for listening audience, Nolan sitting with three friends, just because now they've injected race, into this story. I will tell you the three friends are white. Nolan's right in the middle of them. He's black. He's wearing a blue bathing suit and he doesn't have a shirt on and neither do the other boys. So later this same day after Nolan's mom posted this, she posted this message, quote, we were provided with incorrect information regarding what he was wearing. I was sent this picture. As you can see, he was in blue swim trunks, not black. So clearly earlier, she'd been told he was wearing black swim trunks and in this photo he was wearing blue and she seems potentially irritated

about that discrepancy. I mean, I'm sure this mom is distraught at this point when she posts this and is still looking for her son on Sunday after July 4th. On Monday, two days after Nolan went missing, his body was found. This is aerial footage of that moment taken by the organization Cajun Navy, which was helping in the search. Nancy Grace reports. that she did see images of Nolan Wells's body, which she chose not to air. But she said that Nolan was found face down on the beach, still fully clothed. We don't know what that means fully clothed. We don't know if that means a bathing suit and a rash guard, you know, like street clothes, you know, like pants and a button down, or whether anybody could even tell from the photos

that have been released to a few. So that's one of the mysteries still unsolved in this case. What does fully cloth mean? Because we heard it again today, as Ben Trump held a news conference. We'll get to that in a second. Now, this area is apparently known for its strong rip currents.

And I will tell you, just being at the Jersey Shore all summer, unfortunately, for years now, unfortunately, every summer someone dies thanks to strong rip currents. And it tends to be somebody who's not familiar with the area. Now, Nolan was familiar with this area. This is apparently a popular island.

There were tons of people, which is a relevant fact. We'll get to that more in a bit. But the authorities say that there were very strong rips. People know it. And, you know, a strong rip can take down even a strong swimmer if he panics. You cannot swim your way out of a rip current. You know, what happens is it takes you. It pulls you out into the ocean.

And a panic sets in because you feel like you're going to be pulled way out to the point where you will drown because you can't swim back in. Or you'll get hit by a boat or you'll get attacked by a shark or whatever runs through your head that makes you panic. And you try to swim through the rip current back to shore. And the rip, if you've ever seen, I'm sure you have the animation showing how a rip works. But it basically comes, it looks like a current pushing you straight out to sea from the beach. That's kind of how it appears. So you cannot fight mother nature. the ocean's stronger than you are.

If it wants to take you out, it's going to take you out. The only two things to do in a rip current are either let it take you, and when it ends, and they don't tend to be that long, you know, that in length. When it's done with you, when the current stops, then you wave your arms and somebody will get you. The lifeguards normally can see you or civilians can see you. And you can do it just by letting yourself float so you don't exhaust too much energy. Or you can swim to the side, which is what most people who are pretty experienced do. And you swim sideways out of the rip.

But in any event, we don't know that it was a rip that took Nolan. We don't know what killed Nolan right now. The authorities said that they did not suspect foul play, but they say the complete findings from the autopsy are going to take weeks. Now, on Tuesday, the day after Nolan's body was found, that's when his parents hired Benjamin Crump. By that Friday, the parents, Christine and Elmore Wansley, no idea why their last name is different from Nolans.

They traveled to New York City to do a press conference with Benjamin Crump at Al Sharpton's National Action Network headquarters. Mistake. Again, huge mistake. Sharpton spoke first, followed by Crump, before the parents even spoke about their son. Crump talked about Mississippi's fraught racial history. Watch. The history of Mississippi is something that they don't,

just read about in books but it's a lived experience for many black Americans that oftentimes when our children are killed in highly questionable situations that there is this notion that oh it was nothing wrong no foul play let's just sweep it under the rug where we refuse to sweep it under the the glaring contradictions are just jump out at you. The fact that he is there with his friends and you look at all the videos, it seems to be he's the only black on the island or maybe one other, but not many. Okay.

That does not prove that his friends are racists. If anything, it proves that they're not. They had plenty of white boys they could have limited their social circle to. They chose not to do that because they don't see everything through a racial lens potentially Ben Crump, like you do. Honestly, the fact that these white kids loved and befriended a black young man is being used against them. What the F? At the same press conference, Nolan's mother said,

one of the reasons she was suspicious was because Nolan's phone was found, again, away from Nolan, I grant you, that would raise questions for me too. What teenager separates himself from his phone, though it can happen accidentally or otherwise, but she looked at Nolan's phone when she got it and she found no pictures from that very celebratory July 4th day. So when we made it home, my sister and I actually went through Nolan's cell phone, particularly Snapchat because that is so popular with the children. And when we opened it up, there was nothing. There were no saved pictures.

There were no snaps from that day. And we did open it before the 24-hour experience. So we found that very concerning only because anyone who's ever been around Nolan will tell you at social gatherings. He's taking videos. He's taking pictures. But I do want to say this. I would hope that any parent who, God forbid, would be in our situation, I would hope that you would do the same thing. I would hope that you would ask for any help, receive any help to get answers, because at the end of the day, that that's all we want. We just want to know. We just want to know what happened and why our baby didn't come home.

I understand. I don't begrudge her that search one bit. It's very unfortunate she fell into the crosshairs of those two. Race hustlers, there's just no other word for them. That's what they are. They're dishonest race hustlers and they exploit so many families' pain in order to further their own agenda. They don't care about her, in my opinion.

They only care about their own wallets and reputations. And they don't care about truth. That's a fact, provable by their past behavior. The family also does. discussed several other reasons why they are suspicious about how Nolan died. They did not believe that Nolan would choose to stay on an island without his friends. They believe one of the friends delayed finding Nolan's car keys when the dad late that night showed up at his house. Nolan had left his car keys at a friend's house before they got on the boat that morning. And by the evening,

when they're looking for him, the dad goes over to that friend's house to say, can I have his car keys in his car? And the friend kind of said, I don't, I don't think they're here. And there was a bit of pushback by the dad. And finally the kid then said, oh, we found them. And I guess the dad found that somewhat suspicious. And we're going to get into more of these theories in our discussion in one moment. But yesterday, Benjamin Krump announced that he would be releasing the results of his team's independent preliminary autopsy.

Now, this preliminary autopsy done by his team, there was already won by the state officials. They said they found no foul play. But now his team wants to conduct an autopsy, which they've done. It was paid for by former NFL player Colin Kaepernick. Crump announcing that it would be produced by his team and announcing it with a full-screen promo touting, breaking, and that the results would be released during a press conference at the NAACP headquarters in Chicago. I mean, because if you've got big breaking news in a case about an autopsy of a young man,

this is what you do. You promo it. You got to tease it. Tease. As opposed to just announcing what the results were, like a dignified professional who's been asked by grieving parents to help them. So he did hold his big presser today and Nolan's parents attended. Ben Crump saying this morning that the independent autopsy they had,

conducted by a guy who runs Howard University's medical program, you know, the medical school program says that the independent autopsy states that Nolan Wells's cause and manner of death are quote undetermined pending further investigation. Crump's saying one of the reasons and apologies because this is graphic information is that they can't reach a determination is because Nolan's throat was not delivered with the rest of his body for the second autopsy. Listen. When presented this report on July 19th, preliminary report's second autopsy, death of Nolan and Xavier Wells, cause of death undetermined pending investigation.

But he said the throat was not with the body of Nolan Wells when he received the death. it in Washington, D.C. to perform the second autopsy. He said, nevertheless, a posterior neck dissection performed without review of the interior neck structures is incomplete. Therefore, this pathologist cannot rule our injury to the neck as a contributor or a cause of death.

He said, he would need to have the medical examiner and Mississippi allow him to review the throat. That's why he said his autops is undetermined pending investigation. Remember us about transparency. Okay. So Crump also said the pathologist could not rule out whether Nolan Wells was conscious or unconscious when he entered the water. And as a result, foul play could not be ruled out.

Watch. He did not know whether he was conscious or unconscious when he entered the water. He said that would be significant. He said he did not know whether he was forced into the water or unforced into the water. He said that would be significant. So he said the condition of Nolan Wells before he entered the water, would be the crux of the matter. It would be of utmost importance

to being able to determine a cause and manner of death. He said, definitive circumstances of death are required to determine the manner of death. For these reasons, this pathologist cannot rule out. And let me really call your attention to this. For these reasons, this pathologist cannot rule out if any intervening non-accidental factors contributed to or caused the death of Northern Wales. Understand.

He said, based on the examination of the body, he cannot rule out foul play. Couldn't rule it out and didn't rule it in. At the end of the press conference, Ben Crump led a chant, Justice for Nolan Wells. Justice for Nolan Wells. Justice for Nolan Wells.

Justice for Nolan Wales. Justice for Nolan Wales. Justice for Nolan Wales. He has no idea what happened to him. He does not know that anything was done to Nolan Wales. Wells. He is whipping up a frenzy in this room at the NAACP for his own purposes, in my opinion, justice for what? Nolan Wells may very well have drowned accidentally and a point of clarification because we heard on Nancy's show that Nancy had asked this, somebody from the

Cajun Navy that was searching for Nolan Wells, a great search agency. She asked, quote, Nolan was face down, still fully clothed on the beach. Is that correct? And the Cajun Navy guy said, yes, that is correct. He was faced down. And that is why we quoted her as saying he was still fully clothed on the beach. She said it and then asked if it was correct. And the Cajun Navy guy said, yes, that is correct. And then added he was face down. So we went back to, we love Nancy. We went back and asked her if that's what she saw since she's not releasing the picture of Nolan that she has, which I understand out of respect for the family, but we asked her, is it, is it the case that he was fully clothed? Again, because that could potentially change

this case. I mean, if he was wearing street clothes and found washed up on the shore, then he wasn't swimming. It undermines the case that he could potentially have drowned. I mean, it doesn't completely rule it out. They'll know that after the autopsy, but, um, fully clothed would be different than in a bathing suit. So we went back and her executive producer just got back to us saying, the United Cajun Navy reported today on Nancy's show that Nolan's body was found with just the swim trunks, no shirt or shoes. So now we have a bit of a discrepancy because Ben Crump today said he was fully clothed. He used that term fully clothed.

And you've got the United Cajun Navy, which was they weren't the actual ones that found Nolan's remains, but they were in the air. when it happened and they were part of the search team. So presumably they did have eyes on him after he was found. And they reported just the swim trunks, no shirt, no shoes, which would be consistent with what was in the picture that Nolan's mother posted, saying she got it, we believe from one of his friends, on how he looked that day, July 4th, and that would potentially support the possibility, at least,

that he drowned while in his swimsuit and still in the waters, We just don't know at this hour. And while the local coroner has said no signs of foul play, they did not announce that he had drowned. So I don't know what that's about, because that's knowable from the remains upon autopsy generally. You can see whether there's water in the lungs and whether somebody drowned. So I don't have an answer for you there.

It remains a mystery, and there should be an investigation. and we shouldn't just close the books and say, okay, it's done because it's not done, but an investigation is underway. I mean, we reached out to the local coroner's office before the show, and they said that they don't have any information on this autopsy being done by the Ben Crump guy

from Howard University. They said that was an independent private autopsy, and they directed us to the DA's office for any questions that we have. They're not answering questions today. He did confirm that the state medical Medical Examiner's Office did the first autopsy and said that they have not gotten the report back from that first autopsy that the testing around it is still pending. So this is basically

something they're waiting on. I'm sure there's a toxicology screen, among other screens that they've sent out for testing that will probably take days or weeks and they're not going to get ahead of their skis on announcing anything until that comes back. And so we should wait before we draw any conclusions or make any assumptions, unlike Ben Crump's team. Joining me now is someone who's been following closely this story, Caitlin Becker. Caitlin is host of the New York Postcast, which is the New York Post's podcast, and she's been paying attention to detail on all of this. When you sign your insurance policy for some brokers, that's the finish line.

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one super agency, one powerful platform, all your policies in one place. Go to supershur.com slash Megan, paid for by SuperSure insurance agency LLC, a licensed insurance agency. Caitlin, welcome to the show. Great to have you. Thanks for having me, Megan.

So am I correct then that there's no, the local coroner has done their own autopsy, the local medical examiner's office has done their own autopsy, but has not yet announced a cause of death. Exactly. And that's not unclear, Megan. I mean, I've covered enough of these kinds of stories to know that it typically takes a while before an autopsy is released to the public, released to the media with the full result. Usually that has to wait for the toxicology, which does take weeks. At times, though, they do release a preliminary report, which is essentially what we saw from Ben Crump's team for their independent autopsy. But in a lot of ways, and I don't know if everyone's kind of seeing it as such, both sides are kind of saying the same thing.

You had Ben Crump today looking at the autopsy, the private autopsy that they did independently saying they can't rule out foul play. And then you have the investigators initially saying they don't suspect foul play. Neither one of those things are definitive because, as you've said several times, an investigation hasn't been completed yet, but it needed to be done. And I think that's what we keep getting stuck on, is there has not been a lot of information that has come out from investigators, but the family's team are the ones doing the talking.

So that leads everyone who's doing the watching to speculate and fill in the gaps. Okay, one of the things that I can't get past in this case is if you go the Ben Crump route, which clearly seems to be attacking Nolan's friends, how could they possibly have killed Nolan in this setting, Caitlin, where you've got scores of people,

hundreds by some reports, of other teenagers and young people and others, all parked there on their boats, having a great time celebrating Fourth of July. Like the implication is that they did something to Nolan. They then took his phone, they then wiped his phone, and went back to the main,

land and came up with some cockamamie story that he stayed behind to talk to a girl. Like, what is the theory? Do we know? Like, did they take them out right in front of all these people? Did they, are they accused of having left the boat, sneaked into some wooded area, and gotten rid of their dear best friend who they've loved since childhood with zero reports? Any credible ones, we'll get to the lie that was told of a fight or an altercation between them. Like, do we know what the theory is?

Not specifically, Megan. The theory about how any of those other friends, those pals that he came out to the island with, could be involved, has never really explicitly been suggested. It's a lot of speculation. It's a lot of question marks. It's a lot of fill in the blanks where we, as people following the case, or the public as people following the case, will, their minds can kind of go whatever direction they may think. But there's nothing explicitly been said regarding those three friends, as in they

took the phone. Like you said, they took the phone, they took him, they brought him out somewhere, they killed him, and then they dumped him. That has never been said. There's been more questions surrounding that. And in a lot of ways, I'm with you in saying it doesn't make sense to me that these friends could have said he stayed on the island to talk to a girl. We left. He said he was going to come back later. We had his phone. He never came back. That can be true. And something also still could have happened to Nolan on that island. These things are not mutually exclusive. I I don't think pointing the finger at a group of people is prudent until there's a reason to point a finger at a group of people, no matter who they are.

But I also think that the point you made about there being, by all accounts, several hundred people, several hundred young people who knew each other from the local area and the local schools on this island, no one saw anything nefarious happen. But it doesn't sound like anyone saw Nolan Wells struggling and drowning, which also strikes me as odd with hundreds of people, how no one could have said anything one way or the other. That to me is one of the biggest bits of the mystery, how this, he by every account, lovely, funny, gregarious guy who was not a wallflower, could have disappeared on this island and either something bad happened to him or something tragic and accidental happened to him, but nobody saw anything.

No one has a photo. No one has a video. that to me is shocking and and confusing. Mm-hmm. And we don't know, we know something happened to Nolan Wells. We just don't know when. We don't know when did he drown, if he drowned, or when did he die. We know he was missing as of Saturday, evening, July 4th, and he wasn't found his body until Monday morning, early Monday morning.

So we, but the coroner should know. I mean, they can find basically with an autopsy in general, time of death, date of death, how long a bodies been dead, how long it's been in the water. All of that's knowable. I've done countless interviews with Dr. Michael Bodden and other forensic pathologists over the years just to know that. The only evidence of an altercation, something that would suggest Nolan had a fight, etc. revolves around this one audio tape in which you can hear somebody saying like, give me back my phone. And the people who want to blame these. other boys, the white boys in Mississippi, have pointed this out saying this is Nolan. They're

taking his phone. It's evidence that these kids did something to him. But it turns out this isn't Nolan's voice. This is somebody else's voice. And those kids have come forward to say, you've completely misrepresented this tape. I will play the tape. And then we can talk about it. It's video in which you can hear the voice, SOT 11. Okay, I can't hear anything there, but there is a situation in which they're arguing over a phone. Like, give me back my effing phone. Let me see if I have the actual quote. Okay.

I'm looking for it. It's pretty close to that. I don't see the actual. It was pretty close to give me back my effing phone. Give me back my. It sounded like an altercation between them. And it was gone out into the media with the assumption that the person screaming, giving me back my phone. give me back my phone was Nolan Wells. That is what the initial thing was. And then you have someone

saying, actually, that was me. You have Tristan Shepherd, one of the friends, speaking with Rolling Stone, saying that was me, that he was just out of frame hanging on the water along the shore, that he is the one who was saying that. And he doesn't believe Wells was in the footage. He says, those were not Nolan's words. They were mine. I get that everybody wants justice for Nolan, everybody wants to know exactly what happened. And yet, here's how Ben Crump talked about that video, Satan. They have this video of an argument that is going on. And, you know, thank God, all young people, they have cell phones. And anytime you hear people raising their voice, they start the video. And so you hear on the video, Nolan said, give me.

me my freaking phone. What are you freaking doing? And that becomes even more relevant when you think about the story that they are presenting that Nolan chose to stay behind. That's what they're saying. So, I mean, at every turn, he's been misleading. Am I wrong? You know, with this particular instance, it's so interesting in how he worded it saying it's relevant because it is relevant until it's proved otherwise. And once someone else came forward and said, that was me, that's when you stop looking into that route. We have no reason not to believe Tristan Shepard that it wasn't him on it. So when the initial video came out and this other person didn't say it was him, of course it's worth looking into. Of course it could be relevant. But once someone else says, that's not him

and not, that's not him, I'm guessing, that's not him. That was me. Then I think we, move on from that. I think it's important not to get hung up on that on things that could distract. Megan, you know what gets me about all of this right now, about the photo of the four boys on the boat and that video that I think is getting lost? Clearly, photos and videos were taken that day from anybody's phone, from anybody's boat. So the fact that we haven't seen a ton of those is shocking to me. You should be able to find Nolan in the background of a dozen selfies.

I mean, I know that's what I do when I go out Fourth of July is, if it was you and me on an LBI, because I'm from Jersey, like if it was you and me there on the Fourth of July, we, of course, would snap a couple of photos together. It's shocking that we haven't seen more than these two, really. I mean, just a handful.

No, it's a very good point. And one of the things that remains a mystery here is the boy's story is that Nolan stayed behind because he wanted to talk to a girl. And that's the reason he didn't. There were three boats, so it wasn't a big risk to stay behind when one was going back to the mainland. But they said the reason he didn't get on their boat is that he wanted to talk to a girl. And we don't know who this girl is or whether the authorities have talked to her. What do we know about the girl?

We have an alleged name. We have a half story based on what people have been saying. saying online that it was possibly a girl named Katie because someone purporting to be Katie's mother had gone on social media after Nolan had gone missing and said, yeah, basically it was my daughter. And we've talked to Nolan's family. And from what we know, they stopped. They chit-chatted. It was very quick. And then he was going back with his friends. And she went on her merry way. Whether or not the authorities have spoken to her, whether or not that's even the right person. I mean, how many girls, Nolan was such a hands.

some guy, like how many girls on Fourth of July in a pool of 200 could this guy have spoken to that day or wanted to speak to? Probably a handful. But again, all of these things can be true, and it doesn't change what actually happened. Like you said, not a big risk for his three friends to say, we're going back now and him say, I'm going to talk to this girl and catch a ride later, and then talk to the girl, and then he was going back to his friends. All of those things could be true, but that doesn't get us to the finish line of how did this poor boy, end up face down in the water after two days of being missing. There is a large gap here that can't be explained. And the autopsy report should be able to answer some of that, like you mentioned,

whether or not there was water in the lungs. Something that Ben Crump did mention during his press conference was that the stomach contents was not something his medical examiner could determine. That is important for determining time of death as well. When was the last time this person ate? So it was kind of half results. And we really won't get those answers. until we get the full autopsy. And then from there, there's so many different routes of investigation that have to be done. But like you said, many times.

An investigation still needs to be done and getting caught up in the extraneous details or the little routes that people are taking or things that don't really involve Nolan directly is losing sight of the point. Yeah, it's worse than a waste of time. It is a corruption of people's open-mindedness and willingness to help by shoving false.

false information and theories down their throats. And we just, like, each one turns out to be completely untrue. Here's the other one is that this is Ben Crump, again, pushing that there is this photo. All right, this is via the Daily Mail. The photo was shared online by Benjamin Crump. And he shared it in an Instagram post suggesting that Nolan Wells may have made it back to the mainland and attended a pool party before he died. Postated social media allegations claim a photo exists of Nolan at a land-based pool party in Jackson County before 1 a.m. on July 5th. So he tweets that out. But again, Tristan Shepherd, Nolan's friend, told Rolling Stone he's familiar with this photo. It is not from July 4th at all. It happened a week earlier. It was June 27th at 1158 p.m. And he actually then shared the metadata.

a separate person actually, provided Rolling Stone with the metadata from the pool party photo to prove that it was taken on June 27th at 1158 p.m. Not when, not the night that Nolan went missing, not July 4th. This is just, you know, I'm sorry, but if you're an honest broker, Ben Crump, then you update your Facebook post

or your Instagram post and you say, turned out to be nothing, you know, or you then update your post about the viral boat argument and say, this friend, Trason Chepard, is saying that it was Tristan, not Nolan in that. But he does nothing. He does none of that. He has zero interest in getting to what's true.

He and Al Sharpton only want to get to what will further divide people and pour more fuel on the fire. Listen to Al Sharpton. This is him on Monday at the funeral. This is right on brand for this guy, Sot 9. The story of what we have faced in America is a question that started in the first book of the Bible with the first siblings. Am I my brother's people? Am I my brother's people? Or will we out of some emotions, some anger, some jealousy, some envy, maybe some bigotry,

decide rather than deal with building up the beauty that God put in us that we will harm our brother and that we will harm our sister and through some malice try to hide it but the Bible says that the victim's blood cried from the ground wow I hear this morning morning, no lose blood, crying from the ground. Am I my brother's keeper? Or am I the keeper of some secret, some information that you could give and won't stand up? But the blood's going to haunt you. I mean, he wants a race war.

Every act that man has taken over the past 70 years supports that theory. does not care what happens to these friends of Nolan Wells. He's ready to convict them all. What I focused on was when Nolan's name was spoken and it was kind of toward the end of that speech. So you really could tell that for the speakers, for Al Sharpton, for Ben Crump, a lot of this has become about a larger issue and not really about the issue at hand, which is what happened to Nolan Wells. And as me, for me, as a journalist who investigates these kind of things, that's all my focus is on. And so it's, I think it's important to keep coming back to, okay, what happened, what happened, what happened. But then with these things, this is the conversation

that does get sparked. I mean, what's interesting, and it's not, I'm not necessarily playing devil's advocate, but I would, it's so fascinating to me how we pick our stories, because you've been doing this such a long time, I've been doing this such a long time. There is such an enormous amount of news that comes at us every single day. And these parents, of Nolans reached for whatever bit of help they could get. And I don't know if they hadn't gone to Ben Crump, if you and I would be talking about this. So personal feelings about how Ben Crump deals with things and how Ben Crump operates as an attorney and as an orator and as an activist, it did get an enormous amount of social media attention and media attention on it. But the

problem that can come in to play with that is, losing sight of the real reason, which is giving these parents some peace. And that's all I keep hearing from her. Staying factual. Being factual and giving these parents some peace. Yeah, absolutely. Which they don't. Yeah. They're not committed to. I really think you put yourselves in their hands and you're in the hands of a pariah. You, your son's memory actually will be bastardized and forgotten and diminished and demeaned. He will barely be mentioned, barely be mentioned. It will be all about Al Sharpton's views on Canaan and Abel. I mean, this is unbelievable where he says, this is all about am I my brother's keeper? Or will we out of some emotion,

some anger, jealousy, envy, maybe some bigotry, decide rather than deal with building up the beauty that God put in us that we will harm our brother and through some malice, try to hide it. I mean, this is like unbelievable, but that blood is going to haunt you. He goes on to talk about Emmett Till happened here. Medgar Evers happened here. Based on the history, we got to be able to dig deep. So he's going to hold all the history of the Deep South and Mississippi against these boys who loved this black boy, who were great friends with this black boy, who were best friends, some of them with him. They will get tarred because of the history of the Deep South. That is criminal. It's disgusting. And I'm sorry, but his parents are allowing it. We don't know what happened. It's so. to jump to judgment in any direction at this stage in the game is socially, politically, so dangerous.

I mean, it's very much to the point that you're trying, that you're trying to make right now, to me, that it's, we don't know what happened. We don't know if he was harmed by another person. We don't know if he slipped and fell. We don't know if he drowned. We don't know if there should be blame placed on anyone at this point. And it is, it is kind of dangerous to go down that road. But the only way we can figure out if a charge should be filed or if fingers should be pointed is getting the investigation completed and the answer.

So the longer that the investigators take to give any information, the more this type of rhetoric is going to continue to grow. Yes. Yeah, we don't know. And we certainly don't know if anybody had something to do with his death. Who it was? I mean, presumably we'll find that out. Like you point out, there's going to be tons of photographic evidence and videotaped evidence. There has to be. You know, that is one of the mother's concerns. And I understand that. She says Nolan was constantly on his phone, Snapchat, photographing, videotaping,

and that they found none of that on his phone suggesting to her that it had been wiped clean. All of that will be knowable, Caitlin, right? With the metadata from the phone, a forensic examination of the phone will show us whether stuff had been wiped, stuff that may still be in the cloud and not yet deleted. Absolutely. You know, like, if that actually happened, that'll be part of the investigation for sure. And part of the grand jury, because this will go to a grand jury, which is typical. It is standard procedure when there is a suspicious, not natural death that they would take

the evidence, take it to a grand jury in the area, and then decide if there is any sort of crime that possibly could have been committed and it could rise to the level of going to filing official charges against someone, anyone. So as part of that, I would hope that a forensic analysis of his phone would be looked into because, I mean, moms, no. Moms have a gut instinct that, you know, you know what your kid does. You know how often your kid is on the phone. You know how often he's on Snapchat and you see nothing on there. Sure, you're curious.

You're curious as to why your son didn't come home, but his phone did. I don't like to go anywhere really without my phone. I can't imagine a 19-year-old saying, I'll stay, go ahead and take it back with me or forgetting. But there's also any number of reasons. But I can imagine a mistake. Absolutely. I can imagine a mistake. And I can imagine that he's out there with his friends on the boat, swimming,

having fun, whatever they're doing. And you're not on one of the rare times where a teenager's not on his phone. And then his phone's on the boat, he decides to stay and he forgets about it because he's, you know, that is the one time when you're falking in the ocean or the water or what have you, that you're not really on your phone. I'm thinking about your phone. So I can see that happening. I do wonder about the clothing, though.

Let me play you Ben Crump today on the body. and how it was found, SOT 13. The fact that they told us, we haven't heard from any of their local officials, that Nolan was found face down, fully clothed. Well, that's significant to us because the last time we saw him on the videos, he was without a shirt.

So at what point did he put on his shirt? Somebody saw something. My legal team and I, we stand for truth. no matter who it implicates or who it exonerates. We stand for justice, no matter who it convicts or it acquits. Yeah. And we stand for transparency because we got eyes that can see.

And we don't need government officials. having to narrate it for you and me. Okay, but we do because they're the ones who are conducting the autopsy in chief. So the bottom line is he says fully clothed, and Nancy Grace's EP says the United Cajun Navy reported today on Nancy's show. This is yesterday that Nolan's body was found with just the swim trunks, no shirt or shoes. It seems to me, you tell me, Caitlin, that fully is doing a lot of work there. I was actually in that interview with Nancy and heard the way that was described. that it was fully clothed.

And I asked the question of the executive producer. Again, I believe that they had the person from the Cajun Navy back on again the day after to clarify that because I think Ben Crump got that information from Nancy Grace because he just said that he hadn't spoken to investigators. So he's taking that point of fact from what he heard from Nancy. Nancy had the same question that you and I just had. What does fully cloth mean? So she asked for the clarification and we got it that fully clothed meant not in a state of

undress that he was wearing the swims. suit. It's so important that we clarify these things. Got it. Got to run because we're up against a hard break. Great job, Caitlin. Thank you so much. We're back with Kelly's court on this and more. When it comes to supplements, there are two things that matter, that it works and that you can trust it. Rather than just tell you about relief factor, we often bring you what their real customers have to say about their product. One, Jim said he ran out of relief factor twice, and both times his achies, stiffness, and his pain it came right back. Once he restarted it, he says he felt better again. As Jim puts it, quote,

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in any of what we do. So I didn't come to make money. I came to give money. Okay. And we can't say it was racist. What happened to, or will we, out of some emotion, some anger, some jealousy, some envy, maybe some bigotry, decide rather than deal with building up the beauty that God put in us that we will harm our brother and through some malice, try to hide it. But the Bible says that the victim's blood cried from the ground. I hear this morning, Nolan's blood crying from the ground.

Am I my brother's keeper or am I the keeper of some secret? The blood's going to haunt you. But we're not prejudging. It may be racism. But it may not be. Sure. You're super fair. Totally fair and balanced.

Reverend. He and his buddy Ben Crump, who's like in a mad dash to become as bad as Al Sharpton, it's going to be a race to the finish to see who can be the biggest race hustler. Only time we'll tell. Welcome back to the Megan Kelly Show. We want to get to legal elements of the Nolan Welles story. Plus updates on Sunny Hostin's son's arrest and the Carmelo Anthony case, big updates in that, three of our favorites for today's Kelly's court.

We've got today, MKTrue Crime co-host Dave Aaronberg, former prosecutor for Palm Beach County. Find him on Substack 2. Also, In The Well, co-host Matt Murphy, former prosecutor, find both of those shows on all podcast platforms and YouTube. Just go to mKtruecrime.com. With them today, defense. attorney, host of the Arthur Idala Power Hour. Arthur Idala, long time, long time friend of the show, and of yours truly, guys, welcome back to you all.

Wow, what a docket we have today? Let me just tell you, like, Benjamin Crump and Al Sharpton, that is where you go if you want truth to die in the name of fostering more racist attitudes in America. Benjamin Crump is the person who fueled nationwide outrage when he quoting here from a great article written by at G.C. Wire E. Brian Rose, who reminded us of some of his worst hits. In 2021, fueled nationwide outrage when he told the world, 16-year-old Michaela Bryant was unarmed in her yard when police arbitrarily shot her. Do you remember Michaela, Michaia Bryant? Remember this girl? She was the one. Do we have a sound bite or her? picture, you guys? Look, this is the girl with the knife. Look at this. Remember this picture from just a few years ago when she is charging at an officer with a long knife about to butcher him? That's why the police officer opened fire against her. Not if he asked Ben Crump, who told us all she was unarmed when they arbitrarily shot her. Did he publicly retract his claims after the body

camera footage came out showing that that cop was about to die at the hands of her knife? No, he didn't. He's the same guy who represented the family of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, who created the hands up, don't shoot myth, remember, that claimed that Michael Brown was innocently, you know, shot down by that officer there. And then when Eric Holder, who was running the DOJ under Barack Obama, came out with five black witnesses who said that Michael Brown had charged the officer, and that's why they didn't think that they should bring charges against that officer for shooting him? Did he come out then and retract his claims about it was hands up, don't shoot? No, no, he let that lies stand. We could be here all day

if I went through the Ben Crump race lies, not to mention Al Sharpton's, who's are even worse and more infamous, if that's even possible. So you tell me, I don't know, I'll start with you, Matt Murphy, on whether you think this is being handled judiciously by the Sharpton Crump. Oh, you're going to get me in trouble, Megan. You're getting me in trouble. Listen, I don't know. It's what else is new? One of the things, just listening to that, as a former prosecutor, I know Dave, Dave was thinking the same thing. And I could see Arthur Lickenus Chops. When these people start offering rewards for convictions, Al Sharpton threw up $50,000 for information leading to a conviction.

There's apparently like a thousand kids on that island during this. And, you know, you just incentivized a witness. So let's say this thing goes in a completely different direction that I think it's going. Let's say there is a criminal prosecution. That kind of stuff is your worst nightmare as a prosecutor because now you've just incentivized witnesses to be dishonest. And it's that those guys involved, it's like the opposite of a Midas touch. And I mean, look, this is, I don't want to make light of it. But listening to Ben Crump talk, it reminds me my cousin Vinnie, remember the scene like identical.

It's you take one word and you throw so much emphasis into it that it. It's almost comedy. If this wasn't so tragic and so awful, especially for this victim's family, it would be, I mean, these guys are cartoon characters as they do this. And it's incredibly divisive. It's totally toxic to the national discourse. And it's a, it's, it's there, I completely understand your position that they're taking advantage of the bereaved family and it's awful.

It's, if I can. A witch hunt. I've been in search of a witch. And we don't know whether there's any witch involved whatsoever. Go ahead, Arthur. I've been in Ben Crump's. I've been both, you know, as you know, Garpton is in New York fixture,

and I've got to spend a little time with Ben Crump. Both of them are absolutely, totally different than what you just saw on the screen, especially Crump. He's like very quiet, very, very, very, like awkwardly quiet, awkwardly humble. But I will tell you this, Megan, and I'm being sincere,

I have never seen a man hovered in diamonds. And I'm assuming they're real diamonds. I mean, he didn't check out if they're CZs. I mean, he had diamonds. His watch had to be a quarter of a million dollars. His lapel.

He had a lapel pin. I don't even remember what it was of, but it was all diamonds. His clifflinks were all diamonds, like big, you know, I've been married a couple of times. I know a thing or two about diamonds. I'm like, I'm like, this is crazy.

So when, you know, Sharpton says we're not making any money here. Well, he can't, just so you know, and you know you remember this, Megan. He can't be making any money here, Al Sharpe, because he still owes the Tijuana Brawley guy, like millions and millions of dollars because you falsely accuse that poor cop. I don't know, two decades, maybe three decades ago. I mean, that's how we found out who Al Sharpton was based on a total lie, a total lie. But that's how we know who his name, what his name is. And there's a huge judgment pending against him.

So to say, for our shop to say, you know, I'm not in this for the money or Ben Crump saying I'm not in this of the money. That just defies reality. Right. Sure. And that Ben Crump, you know, the lies about that McKayah Bryant case were so awful. She was, want to correct what I said, she was charging another woman with that knife. And that's why the officer shot her in defense of others.

And he goes out there and says there was absolutely no reason for him to do it. Then you see the video to like a big butcher knife. It's like, what do you mean? What cop wouldn't shoot in order to protect another? This was a big deal when it happened. And an honest broker would have come back out and said, I'm sorry. Got that one wrong. Of course, she was unleashing deadly force on another.

But that's not the business they're in. You know, Dave, what do you think should happen in this case? In this case, you were recently the Palm Beach County attorney. How would you be handling this if you had, you know, the family? Forget the race hustlers who are representing them. but the family saying, I have got real questions about what happened to my boy. And the friends saying, we have no idea. We left him behind at 3 o'clock or 4.30 that day, and he was fine.

Megan, I don't think you can look at this in a vacuum. It's just reality that we're dealing in Mississippi, where they have a history of racial discord and discrimination. And so when we're critiquing Ben Crump, who, by the way, I've worked with in the past, the Corey Jones case that came through my office. And actually, I like working with Ben. And he and Al Sharpton, we may have different views on some things, but they have lived a different life experience. So just to make that point, they have, just to make that point because, you know, you have different life experience than the three of us white guys on this panel. Don't bust out lived experience.

Lived experience doesn't make you lie about McKayah Bryant or Michael Brown or anybody else. It doesn't make you see a bunch of white people and say they're killers when there's zero evidence. Well, in the Bryant case, Ben Crump spoke before the video came out. And then after the video came out, you're correct. He didn't retract his comments, but he did shift it towards systemic failures. Why de-escalation wasn't used. How about the Jacob Blake case? In the Jacob Blake case, Crump publicly described Blake as unarmed and peaceful.

And did he publicly correct the record when Jacob Blake himself told Michael Strahan on GMA that he was armed with a knife? and that's what found himself. That's why he found himself in the crosshairs of those cops that he had resisted arrest. He'd been tased twice. Did Ben Crump come out and say,

oh, you know what? I was wrong. He wasn't unarmed and peaceful. By his own admission, he had a knife. No, he didn't. It has nothing to do with his lived experience, Dave.

David, you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be held against you by Megan Kelly. So I would just tread very lightly, my friend. I am treading lightly,

but I'm saying this that when we could And we critique this case in Mississippi. Just keep in mind that we're not just judging it like in a vacuum that Mississippi has had a history of racial discord and discrimination. So when they come in. I reject that entirely. That is using sins of the great, great grandfathers who may, I use that term euphemistically. They may probably have no, who the hell knows how long these families have been in Mississippi against the child. These boys didn't stumble upon some black kid. They are going to teach him a lot. lesson, they were best friends with him, Dave. This is ridiculous. They loved him. The evidence is universal right now that they were best friends with him, that they had a lifelong

friendship with this kid, that they did everything together. This is not they found Emmett Till. Like, this is bullshit what's being done to me. Maybe it'll turn out that there are these raging racists who turn on their friend. Right now, there's zero evidence of that. All the evidence is that they care deeply for him. Megan, there is zero evidence of foul play here. When you look at the facts of this, you see.

that Nolan was loved by his friends. And the evidence that somehow there was violence or that because he was found with his clothing on as opposed to his swims trunks, first off, there's a dispute on that, as you correctly showed in the last segment. And also, if there was violence, there would be one of the many bystanders who would be a witness. There would be some video. Every kid has a camera out. So we would know. But what Ben Crump and Al Sharperner are saying is that they have had a separate independent medical examiner who they said was undetermined. They couldn't determine it. Okay, that's not inconsistent with what we know now.

And also just my last point is that they're calling for more transparency. And in this case, I do think because this is my point of the history of Mississippi, they should go out of the way to be more transparent than normal. They have not been. Where is the toxicology report? Right. Where is the medical examiner report? Right.

Where's the medical examiner report? And right away, when the cops came out, said there's no foul play here. They did that well without any of these reports in their hand. I think they should have more transparency before they speak out. I don't know the rules. Sheriff John Ledbetter said Wells' friends were cooperating that investigators don't suspect foul play. That's all. And I don't know those. In New York, in New York, they don't release the medical examiners report until the toxicology report is out. And unless there's a, okay,

there's a bullet wound to the head. Okay, it's a little different. But when they're at a point where they don't have an actual, they're not certain of a cause of death. And they want to get the toxicology report out and any other, any other scientific or laboratory tests needed that that's when they, that's when they release it when it's totally done. And don't forget, you know, they made a big deal about, oh, his throat wasn't there. Guess what? None of his organs were there.

When they perform an autopsy, they take all the, I mean, it's not pretty. I guess all of us have seen it. They just take all your organs out there. them, they cut them, they look at them, they put them in a literally in a hefty bag and if there isn't going to be a second autopsy, sometimes they just stuff it right back in the belly and then sew it up

and then you go to the funeral parlor and they deal with it. So, look, what Bench Crump did in that news conference was he broke down a very friendly medical examiner's report and just try to throw any little bit of doubt out there, almost

like he's a criminal defense attorney and a summation. Well, they're not sure. about this and you can't be sure about that and you can't determine this we don't have the throat and Megan I did talk to a former medical examiner and he did say it's not as easy to know someone drowned

as you may think and you look at like a lot of different aspects of it like if there's seaweed in their stomach and it looks like okay they swallowed all of this water so we don't know and some of that is going to come back in the laboratory reports about whether he drowned it's the anniversary

right now of Malcolm Jamal Warner the famous actor who just drowned in what drowned exactly a year ago, you know, in Costa Rica just swimming and he got caught in the riptides that you spoke about in the beginning of the show, which seems like it's the most obvious answer of what really happened. And you know what he didn't have around? It does.

Yeah, he didn't have a cell phone. The one place, that's one question. And with the poor mom, why didn't he have his phone? Why were there in new pictures? We don't swim with our cell phones. We still haven't reached that point where they're actually waterproof. So a kid who's swimming leaves his phone on the boat.

It's the easiest answer to so many of these things. But going back to what Dave said, with this case, I really, I agree with Dave on that. I wish that they would be more transparent because it's going to come back as drowning. I guarantee that's what they're going to come back. And what Arthur was talking about, Arthur's right. It's called an end block removal, Megan. And what they're doing is it's strapped muscle dissection. And they're looking for signs of strangulation.

like Dave has seen a million times and Arthur's seen a million times. When you actually observe an autopsy with strangulation, there's a tiny little bone that breaks called the hyoid bone. There's a thing called particular hemorrhaging in the eyes. There are all of these external manifestations. And it depends on the office, but sometimes they'll do that as a matter of course. But that indicates to me that if they did an end block removal, they didn't find anything obvious.

And I thought that I was expecting something way worse from this private. pathologist today. And I almost, you know, kudos to him saying it's inconclusive. That sounds exactly right if they're still missing organs. I expected, and I bet my fellow panelists here expected the same thing that we were going to get Ben Crump up there saying they found clear evidence of foul play because of body washing up is going to have scrapes and it's going to have bumps and bruises that are post-mortem. But we've, all three of us have seen that a million times where a private pathologists will come in and make claims that turn out later to be untrue. So I was pleasantly surprised by that that they had so little to work with in that press conference today.

And just to be clear on that, on the throat, the front of the throat missing, because when I first saw that, I was like, oh, my God, what is that evidence of foul play? Are they suggesting somebody strangled him and then got rid of that part of the evidence on the body? But no, because if you listen to the full Ben Crump soundbite, he says the medical office, the original medical examiner didn't give that to us. And he's like, we want to see that still, suggesting that that is a body part that the original coroner still has that wasn't delivered for this second independent autopsy to look at. And they want it. So, but, but again, the initial, initial statement was that there are no signs of foul plates. So to your point, if they had seen in the front throat,

the hyoid, hyoid bone broken, I don't think they'd be out there saying no signs of foul play, that would just make the sheriff look like an idiot, which he doesn't want. So, well, there's more to, you know, be investigated. I agree with what Caitlin said. We need photos. These are young kids. It's 4th of July. There's going to be more photographic and videotape evidence probably pouring into the police right now.

And hopefully, Nolan will be in some of those past 430 when that boat left. They started having boat trouble around 3. At 4.30, they left. And there's a, that's not disputed. because they called into, I think, the Coast Guard or somebody asking for help because they thought they were sinking as their boat took on water. And we know when they got back to the dock. So right around then to, you know, later that night, the search began around 11. We need everybody's cell phone.

Everybody who was there to turn in and see if there's anything in the background. It's a little bit of old school police work. You know, I went to dinner last night with four former first grade to Texas of New York. And they're saying, listen, the technology is fantastic. Okay. and it is definitely lowered crime, especially here in New York City, where there's a camera everywhere.

I mean, there's literally either an NYPD camera or a ring doorbell, almost every part of the city. But they said the old school police work, going door to door is just, it's still the best. I mean, almost the best. But in a case like this,

I would like to think that the sheriff has two, three, four officers on that island where these kids are partying every day, since this happened until now. And it was called canvassing. Just talking to all of them. What have you heard? What do you know?

Where did you see? Where were you? Would you turn over your phone and just do that old school, like, you know, hand-to-hand combat? Because what one, the video you showed or the kid on the podcast said, let me say, say, with 4,000, 3,000 kids on the island or something along those lines. So someone's got to see something at some point. And those kids go back to that island. It's not just like it's a July 4th.

thing. This is a beautiful weekend coming up. Well, I'm speaking in New York. I don't know what's going on down there. But, you know, I'm sure weekend after weekend, you're going to have the repeat people going when you just have cops saying, hey, can I talk to you for a second and doing that hundreds and hundreds of times? There's more information to be had. And I'm happy to see them investigate it. I'm not happy to have these race hustlers get ahead of their skis and casting aspersions on his friends or anybody else for that matter without knowing anything. All right, let me keep going. there's news today in the Carmelo Anthony case.

The Collin County DA, his name is Greg Willis, is speaking out for the first time since Carmelo Anthony filed this motion for a new trial. They filed it right away after the conviction. It was July 7th they filed. As a reminder, last month, a jury rejected Carmelo's self-defense arguments. They found him guilty of murdering 17-year-old Austin Metcalf after stabbing Austin in the chest

for no apparent reason at a track and field meet in April of last year, down in Friscoe, both both of the boys were 17 at the time of the stabbing that same jury sentenced carmello to 35 years in prison then carmello got a brand new legal team right after the conviction and one of the arguments the brand new legal team is making on appeal is that um they want a new trial and and and one of the arguments that they're that they're positing is that the prosecution they say breached an undocumented pre-trial agreement between the prosecution and the defense in which both sides allegedly pledged not to introduce, quote, character evidence, character, reputation,

or extraneous conduct evidence concerning either Austin Metcalf, the victim, his brother, Hunter, his twin brother, or the defendant, Carmelo Anthony. We're not going to do character evidence on any of these. And the defense really wants us to know, and they're filing, that they had negative things they could have said about Austin, the dead 17-year-old. And, his brother and they list some of it there. Like, oh, we held off because of this gentleman's agreement. And we were told that the prosecution would hold off with respect to Carmelo. The filing describes the agreement as, quote, off the record, which is a weird term because we use that in journalism, but it's atypical in a legal proceeding. I mean, like a secret off the record agreement

between the prosecution and the defense, what we're not going to introduce in a case involving a 17-year-old, potentially going to jail for the rest of his life? It's weird. All of it's weird. But now Carmelo's lawyers claim that the prosecution violated the agreement in the course of the trial when they informed the court on the final day of testimony that the pact would not apply to Carmelo Anthony if he took the stand in his own defense. And they also said, by the way, Carmelo's attorneys, they were the first to breach this deal if we had it because they opened the door to character evidence when in their opening statement. they mentioned that Carmelo Anthony played chess. So if we secretly had an agreement not to offer any character or extraneous evidence about

who these kids are in their free time, why'd you mention that? Now, according to Carmelo Anthony's lawyers, Carmelo then only had 10 minutes to decide whether or not to testify after learning that the prosecution might indeed bring up character or reputation in a cross-examination of him,

and he ultimately decided not to take the stand. They're suggesting as a result of knowing the prosecution was going to interpret introduce character evidence. That decision was incredibly controversial since his entire defense was self-defense. And, you know, you heard here and elsewhere, a lot of lawyers say you can't really effectively make a self-defense claim without testifying, without having the defendant testify. So now this is his defense team trying to justify their decision.

So Carmelo's trial attorney was a guy named Mike Howard. He's not part of the appeal. We introduced you to this guy. Remember, he had that little video like, oh, jeesh, you know, I'm just sort of a sweet guy. I'm like this nice guy who gets along with opposing counsel. In fact, we have that. I'm going to play part of it. Not all of it.

Sot 20 watch here. So what kind of lawyer do you want? Do you want an aggressive junkyard dog who's going to fight for you hard? Or do you want somebody who has a reputation as, you know, easy to get along with? The answer might surprise you. While, of course, it's important to have somebody who fights for your rights and stands up. And it goes on to say, I'm the second kind. So I'm like the nice guy.

want to keep going. So that's Mike Howard. Now, he's not part of the appeal, but he was the trial lawyer, and he wrote in an affidavit that his client's decision not to testify was, quote, a 180 degree change in the defense strategy. And it was a direct consequence of the breach of this gentleman's agreement. So now the DA is speaking out and disputing what's in that filing, as I just outlined to you, speaking to CBS, to CBS Texas is J.D. Miles, who obtained the trial. trials transcripts. Watch here. It's clear that many of these claims don't match what actually happened in court. Collin County DA Greg Willis says the trial transcripts obtained by CBS News, Texas refute those claims when the judge and attorneys met behind closed doors during the trial

to discuss whether Anthony would take the stand. During a discussion about the agreement, Howard says, I agreed that that deal, for lack of a better term, has held. I believe both parties have abided by it. The agreement became a problem for defense attorneys because it would limit what they could ask Anthony without violating it. And because Judge Roach was not bound by it telling both sides, I am not here to enforce agreements between parties and a criminal case. If asked to make a ruling, it will be based on the rules of evidence. So by the way, you heard him there saying the agreement became a problem for the defense attorneys because it would limit what they could ask Anthony, what they defense attorneys could ask Anthony if he were to take the stand. So the defense could not

introduce you're never been in trouble before have you son they couldn't do that may according to that report they were the ones who are upset about that deal cbs texas also reports that the transcripts refute carmelos claim that he only had 10 minutes to decide whether or not to testify howard's new affidavit says he was 99% sure before the trial that anthony would testify he blames part of the reason he didn't on being rushed during the closed door hearing and the judge declining to extend our time beyond 10 minutes. But the trial transcript shows that behind closed doors, the judge gave Anthony a lengthy explanation of his rights and that the defense had more than a half hour beyond that to consider their next move, even allowing Anthony to consult with his parents

before telling the judge, I don't want to testify. Did you think you had ample time to talk to your lawyers about that and got feedback from them, feedback from your family? You have had enough time to make that decision. Anthony replied, yes, sir, we did. What was your reaction to seeing this affidavit. I was surprised. I was disappointed and frankly, a little confused. I mean, I was there for every minute of the trial and Bill Werski and our prosecution team. They conducted this case so fairly and cleanly and professionally. We asked Carmela's new legal team as well as his trial attorney for comment on what the DA said there. We have not yet heard back. We'll update if we do. The DA expressed confidence that Carmelo's

conviction would be upheld. CBS, Texas reports a hearing on the motion for a new trial could be held as early as next month. Still with me, attorneys Arthur Idala, Dave Aaronberg, and Matt Murphy. This is a juicy one. I'm dying to talk to you about this. I mean, Matt, what,

25 years as a prosecutor? Have you ever heard of an agreement like this? What? And the DA seems to be admitting that there was one. He wasn't like there was no deal. He was like, he kind of, it was implicit that there was a deal.

But you know what? All bets are off when the defendant takes the stand. So what do you make of it? Well, when you go into a trial, especially a homicide trial like that, Megan, there's all kinds of behind the scenes discussions between the two parties, between the prosecutor and the defense. And you get, I don't know, 90% of things sort of worked out between you if you're getting along with opposing counsel. So having a conversation about what's coming in, what's not coming in isn't unusual. The decision to take the stand and expose yourself to impeachment is that's like first day of law school kind of stuff.

And I, this is a head scratcher to me. I don't see this going anywhere. Maybe, maybe Arthur or Dave disagree. But Dave is shaking his head as you're talking. I don't know why. Tell us all, Dave. I agree with Matt. A handshake deal?

That's what this is about, like a gentleman's agreement. And that doesn't really hold water in court. The court's not going to accept that. That's an appellate court's not going to accept that. And plus, when they say, well, that meant we were rushed. We only were given 10 minutes. to decide whether we should take the stand, whether Carmelo should take the stand, that's not true. The defense actually had more than 30 minutes. He had time to consult with his parents.

The judge gave the defendant a thorough step-by-step explanation of what not taking the stand or taking the stand would mean about his constitutional rights. So the defendant owns the final decision on taking the stand. They can't lay this on the prosecutor, especially when there was no agreement in front of the judge, maybe some handshake behind the scenes, not going to good enough. Why, Arthur, I can see, I'll play devil's advocate here. If I'm representing Carmelo Anthony, yes, I go in, I say, we had an agreement not to introduce character evidence. That's why, when I had the decedent's brother on the stand, I didn't ask about their alleging that these, one or both of them was guilty of posting racist graffiti at some point. So I lived up to my end

of the bargain. And now I'm going to put my client on the stand to make the self-defense case. And the prosecution reveals to me, oh, the agreement only applies. basically to your witnesses, not to mine. I mean, vice versa. And I'm definitely going to go after your kid on character evidence. So get ready. And so my client's rights were compromised in reliance on the prosecution's agreement, which by the way, as I point out, the DA doesn't seem to be denying that they had this agreement behind the scenes. But as you well know, when it comes to an appeal, all that matters is what's on the record. I mean, we do use the term off the record because it's not on the record.

There's the stenographer in there and it's on the record. It's on paper and it's there. So if it's some off the record thing, an appellate court, you know, I mean, clients come to us after a conviction all the time and say, well, this happened and that happened. And I go, look, if it's not on the paper, we can't bring it up at an appeal. There are other motions you can bring it up. But the reason why this is so foreign to me, Megan, is in the state of New York,

before the trial starts, we do what's called a Sandoval ruling, which is if the client testifies, these are the bad things the prosecutor could say. And quite frankly, one of the two reasons why the Harvey Weinstein original conviction in New York was reversed, the appellate judge said to the prosecutor, when I'm arguing the case, no human being in their right mind would testify based on this trial judges who stand the ball ruling, which means if the defendant testified, every bad act this guy ever committed in terms of having a fist fight with his brother when they were teenagers was going to be allowed to come in. It was just over the top. But that was all on the record. So we were able to go into the appellate court and argue it. This behind the scenes, gentleman's agreement,

they just don't exist in New York. So I don't know what goes on in Texas, but that's not how it works year. Okay. So no one here feels good about Carmelo Anthony's chances on appeal, at least not as he's arguing his case right now. Correct. Yes. Look, I was in Palau, Megan, when this whole thing went down, I was on a dive trip. So I missed all the drama. And then Mark, Mark Gerra goes on a dive trip. Did you hear that? Dave. Did you hear that? He was on a dive. You know who goes to Plow survivor. That's a survivor show or money launders. I can't wait to go tensions look like for these prosecutors after 25 years, not working on a dive church. There's a whole other side to Matt Murphy.

He's the first person ever on this show to use the term bitching in an actual segment. It happened. It's when I knew I liked it. I've got far worse in my head that I filter out. But look, this is, we have all the, the three of us have done this case over and over and over again. The kid who stabs another kid at a party tragically is a part of American. life. It happens. There's like all of our blood vessels go out on our left side. That's why people used to think the heart was on the left and it's most people right-handed. You see this over and over and over

again, especially once we all saw the video. I don't want to speak for anybody else, but this is so run-of-the-mill average. Like, this is horrible. You don't get to use a deadly weapon for a shove or even a punch. Like, this is so basic. And I got off the boat and the world got even crazier. I had no internet. And it was like, how could things get weirder and they got weirder? So I just... Suddenly Matt Garagos has no partner on In the Well because Matt Murphy has decided it was much better in Palau, not knowing anything. I'm going back. Not being connected.

If I have to listen to Al Sharpen one more time today, Megan, I'm getting right back on that boat. So... Take me with you. All right, stand by. We're going to take a break, but we'll be right back with these guys. And we have an update on the sunny Austin Sun case. Stand by. We would not be celebrating America 250.

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Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius X-F. It's called the Megan Kelly channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halprin, Link Lauren, Morin Callahan, Emily Dershinsky, Jesse Kelly, real clear politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megan Kelly channel, SiriusXM 11, and on the Sirius XM app. Back with me now, two former prosecutors turned defense attorneys

and host on our MK True Crime Channel, Dave Aaronberg, and Matt Murphy had to say goodbye to Arthur, who's got other stuff to do. Guys, how does that grab you, Matt, when you hear me, could describe you as a defense attorney now? Odd. Odd. Although I just, I did have a big win on a police officer case, which has sort of shades of a lot of these other cases.

It was a guy who shot a, shot a gang member who had turned out later as a BB gun, and BLM got involved, and it was three and a half years of horror show for this poor guy, and we just won that. So sometimes being a defense lawyer can be very rewarding. So no regrets. How about you, Dave? How are you feeling? First time I was in court just late last year about after I became a defense lawyer,

the court turned to me and said, okay, anything more from the defense? And I stared at him because we stared at each other for like five, ten seconds. Like, oh, oh, that's me. So, yeah, it's still hard to get used to. As you can see for most of my comments, not the first segment, but most of the time I'm on your show, I still take the prosecutor's point of view. You're taking the point of view of truth, Dave. That's the thing.

You're calling it is you see it and most of the time they're getting it right. And Megan, I cannot tell you how many times I still will say when the court goes to me, I'll say Matt Murphy for the people. I just can't get it out of my brain. The defense people, the people charged. That's who I'm here for. Those people. Okay.

Yeah. So here's what we know now in the case against. I don't know his last name. I don't know if Sonny Hosten's son is named Gabriel Hosten. I just know his name is Gabriel. And he's 24 years old. And he's now been charged. He's been given a citation.

I guess we shouldn't say charged necessarily for trespassing in this railway where he was allegedly jogging or running, but wasn't allowed to be there. And there are no trespassing signs, which are pretty visible all over the place, reportedly. Now, the Westchester County DA's office, they say the next court appearance is confirmed for July 31st in New Rochelle City Court. So he does have to show up there and answer to this citation. But it was sort of an interesting conversation that we had with, let's see, hold on, I want to make sure that I'm, I know how I'm talking about, with the new Rochelle PD. Okay, the New Rochelle PD tells us the following. that jogging near the train tracks in that area of New Rochelle is not common.

Because there have been questions about like, was he jogging? Why would they so determined to give him a citation? What was really going on here? They say jogging in that area is not at all common. That wooded areas and an Amtrak track are nearby. But this is not a typical route for pedestrians or joggers. The tracks run close to some areas, but most of that stretch is fenced off. He said it's not a place that the average person would end up unless they deliberately climbed onto the tracks.

He said he does not know why this individual was in this location, noting the area is clearly marked and difficult to access as well. Says it's uncommon for people to end up on the tracks. When it happens, it's more often homeless individuals. He said the entrance ramps in the area are not near residential blocks and that there are not really sidewalks along these ramps, describing the area as not a typical jogging route, though nearby side streets are used for jogging. Okay, so we don't really know what this 24-year-old man was doing there. He claimed jogging, but the police were very determined. First, they handcuffed him, then they removed those. Then Sonny Hosten arrives and says, this is a Harvard grad, Harvard grad, Harvard grad, Harvard, grad, by the way, I had a big interview today. Everyone's talking about it. Wink, wink, I'm on the view,

who had hosted J.D. Vance earlier that day. Did I mention Harvard? And also now a Yale researcher. Yale, Yale. Never been in any trouble, okay? And then asked if they could not cite him, but they said we're going to have to. And so you guys tell me whether they should go through with this citation exercise, which reportedly carries a $500 fine. And she's a multimillionaire, notwithstanding her aggrieved nature. about this terrible country, which has been so bad to her where she could buy and sell your whole family, Dave Aaronberg. No, I don't know what your financial situation is. I'm a Harvard man, too. You can always tell a Harvard man, but you can never tell them much. And so I'm... Literally, I didn't know that.

You'd never mention that. All your appearances on this show. That's not how you operate. Like, there are some people who mention it every turn. Cambridge, when I was in Cambridge. And there are others like you who don't do that. Well, thank you, Megan. Yes.

I was fortunate I went to public schools and then went to Harvard and didn't have a mom who could get me out of any crimes. Now, in this case, the police seem to handle it well. I mean, they downgraded it to that citation where it wouldn't be a criminal charge, but it is a non-criminal citation where you can get a fine because he was cooperative. He has had no priors, no prior record. So I think that the police handled it normally. I think Sonny Huston, I think in retrospect, wishes she did not. act like that because it was caught on those body cams and no one wants someone who is a celebrity to invoke privilege to get their kid out of a situation. It really reeked of a Harvard grad,

Matt Murphy would never commit a crime. That's only for uneducated losers like the guys who built these tracks. Obviously, my Harvard grad Yale researcher would never commit a trespass. That's what it reeked of. It was disgusting. Yeah, look, I think that one of the challenges of a real prosecutor, the goal is to do justice. And one of the challenges on this one, I think, is to make sure that nobody goes heavier on him or lighter on him because of who his mother is or whose father is or who anybody is. Like, it's very important to treat him like he would like he would treat anybody else that came across your desk. And for something like this, I mean, for me, Dave, this one just kind of screams out like a diversion thing. takes a class, pays some money for the Victim's Restitution Fund, you know, finishes a, you know,

whatever the diversionary class would be and just gets it dismissed. And that's, that's the way I would see a case like this being handled just in a regular everyday thing, Megan. And, and also full disclosure, I knew Sunny before she became famous from after her days as a federal prosecutor. And I disagree with a lot of what she says politically. She's always been very nice to me. And I think kids, right. I bet she wretts some of that. And she's trying to help her kid, you know, and I'm not making any excuses. He's not exactly a kid. He's 24 years old. Sure. But, okay. No, I said before, look, if my son or daughter called me and they were in handcuffs, I would show up. I would help them. But I would not play the elite education card, nor would I play the I'm on camera.

or in my case, unlike hers, I defend cops all the time. And I'm not some knee jerk, you know, all cops are bastards like her show is. So, but I would never play that. I don't know. Like, you tell me, you guys are both former prosecutors. You get pulled over for speeding. Do you drop former prosecutor, former federal prosecutor in your case? I just, I wouldn't do it.

You can't do it. Yeah. Especially with body cameras everywhere. you risk blowing something up. Like, for example, had it not been for the body cam, no one would know about this, or at least it would not be as big of an issue. But because Sonny went in there

and inject herself into this, now becomes a bigger issue. I agree with Matt. This would be diverted normally. I am not upset that police downgraded to a non-criminal offense. First time offender. Me neither.

He was cooperative. But it is a issue that you and a lot of people are talking about because of what the mother did. Yep. It's not. That's interesting because like you guys actually could play that card and don't. I have other cards that I could play and I never have. And I just wouldn't. And most of us wouldn't because we understand it's just not appropriate. You just don't manipulate a police officer like that. You can defend yourself in court on the merits or not or just pay the fine, but you don't try to play those cards. And while in your day job, you're ripping on everybody else's privilege all day. It's just completely hypocritical. Okay, we'll see what happens at the end of the month. Last but not least, Timothy Buston, is dealing with these charges against him, these criminal charges against him, relating to these two twin boys who used to star on the show that he directed, called the

cleaning lady. These boys have alleged that he touched them inappropriately, and he's been charged with four counts of criminal sexual contact of a minor for allegedly touching their private parts. That's what they claim. Now, that sounded bad enough, but then we found out that the two parents, both parents of the twins, appear to be a couple of grifters. And it did throw this case into a whole new light. And not just like they had some trouble with the law here or there, but like crimes of dishonesty, which you guys know, that stuff always comes in. Like that is, the law treats those as special when it comes to cross-examining a witness because they do speak to a certain aspect of your character that's highly relevant in a judicial

proceeding. Now, the boys, the boys are innocent. The boys did not have any sort of dishonesty in their past. They're only children. But the parents, the father spent three years in prison for wire fraud conspiracy. The mother has a number of civil judgments against her related to gambling debts and writing bad checks. Okay, so I do feel the need to say that for Timothy Busfield. But right now, what's happened is the Daily Mail has gotten its hands on Timothy Busfield's appearance before the grand jury as it was deciding whether to charge him. And I got to say, guys, very bizarre statement that the grand jury heard. Here it is from the February 5th proceeding as obtained by the Daily Mail. Sop 24.

Listen to Timothy Busfield. I didn't do this. I have never, ever been inappropriate in any way, physically, sexually, in any way. with a child, a pre-pubescent little boy, I am not attracted to that. I've never been attracted to that. I'm only and always ever been attracted to adult women or post-pubescent women. That's throughout my entire life. I've never, ever been inappropriate like that. Yes, I was never, ever once. Yes, alone. I was never, ever once ever alone with those boys. Kissing either one of those boys?

I don't remember ever kissing either one of those boys. He is also here and has also made a statement that the mother said that she knew it wasn't real but wanted revenge. And she got it. I'm done. I've lost TV shows. A movie they digitally replaced me from? An SVU that I shot and they told me again. My agents have fired me.

Thank God I'm an age. but I'm done. Dave, I don't remember ever kissing one of those boys? He was doing well until that. I thought he seemed sincere. And then all of a sudden, I don't remember kissing the two boys. Whoa, whoa. If you did, you would remember that.

And is that something that normally happens? You kiss your co-workers who are like 11-year-old on the set? Oh, boy, not good for him. Not good, Matt. No, not good. But I'll tell you, Megan, I think he hit the name. nail in the head. You know, reviewing allegations, I spent four years in the sexual assault unit, and I know Dave has seen maybe even more of these than I have. You do see false accusations

coming through the mouths of kids from crazy parents, and you see it all the time, most commonly in custody disputes where there's an allegation that a little kid will make, you know, from the mom saying, you know, my dad touched me and you look and you look, and it's a brutal custody dispute. I hate the parent's background on this. I think that that makes me very uncomfortable. And this case, those statements that he just

made are terrible. But he did say the right thing. I'm not attracted to peeves and little boys. As weird as that is, it's a very important factor to consider. Honestly, Megan, I think I would dump this about as the prosecutor. I don't think

the argument gave any conviction on this case. Once you get a look at the parents' resumes. And on top of that, as he pointed out in that testimony, there was allegedly a promise by the mother to get Busfield, who she reportedly blamed for her sons losing their role. They were replaced by a younger model. It can happen even to a child. It's very sad. I don't know. We'll see. We'll watch it play out. But I believe him that his career is ruined. However, it's not just because of this allegation. A bunch of others came out with these young women here, there, and everywhere, claiming he had been inappropriate with them. So it's about

much more than just these boys at this point in terms of his PR problems. Guys, a great discussion. Wonderful to see you both. No more Palau. Back to work. Matt Murphy, Dave. Great to see you too. Thank you. Back from Cambridge and right where you belong. Tomorrow, we are back with Emily Jashinsky. Don't forget to check out our crime series tonight on our MK show feed. John Bonae Ramsey, part three. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show, no BS, no agenda, and no fear.