The Megyn Kelly Show - Is Obama Orchestrating Biden's Exit, and Media Elite Start Telling Truth, with Ric Grenell and Bill Sammon | Ep. 835

Episode Date: July 11, 2024

Megyn Kelly opens the show by discussing the Democrats’ ongoing meltdown and panic over Biden’s debate debacle, Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre’s history of lying and cover-ups, the media suddenly getting mad after years of lies, whether former President Obama is trying to push Biden out behind the scenes, and more. Then Ric Grenell, former acting DNI Director, joins to discuss whether Biden's "big boy" press conference could make or break his candidacy and presidency, Biden’s obvious cognitive decline that the media ignored for so long, defenders arguing criticizing Biden is “ageist and ableist,” if Barack Obama is working behind the scenes to push Biden aside as nominee, how Morning Joe is teasing the way Obama may have orchestrated the George Clooney op-ed, Ezra Klein admitting some on the left don't really believe what they say that Trump is an existential threat to democracy, corporate media shockingly turning on Biden, how journalists have abandoned their duty to be skeptical of power, and more. Then longtime journalist Bill Sammon joins to discuss the historic past two weeks, the calculus Biden is weighing about his political future, what the Democratic party might do moving forward, the stakes in this election, and more.Follow The Megyn Kelly Show on all social platforms:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MegynKellyTwitter: http://Twitter.com/MegynKellyShowInstagram: http://Instagram.com/MegynKellyShowFacebook: http://Facebook.com/MegynKellyShow Find out more information at: https://www.devilmaycaremedia.com/megynkellyshow

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Well, 48 hours ago, the reporting was that President Biden had appeared to have successfully fought off the intense pressure on him to withdraw as a candidate for reelection. The uprising in the House had all but been quelled by a Capitol Hill meeting at which congressional Black caucus members, including James Clyburn, stuck firmly by Mr. Biden. And terrified Democrats decided doing nothing felt safer than speaking out. What if he pulls it out? What if he wins? Do you want to be the one who turned on him? Over in the Senate, no greater courage emerged, despite ubiquitous reporting that the overwhelming number of Democrats in both chambers want Mr. Biden gone,

do not believe he can win, and are starting to believe he'll take them down with him. Then Cook Political Report came out with a devastating look at the polls, essentially predicting a Donald Trump landslide. This, as CNN projected, the Republicans will win both houses of Congress if Joe Biden stays on as the presidential nominee. All after a New York Times poll showed Mr. Biden hemorrhaging voters as a result of the debate. Enter Nancy Pelosi yesterday morning on the president's favorite TV show, Morning Joe, refusing to accept reality because she's a woman who can usually change it. Namely,

Mr. Biden's very clear message that he has firmly decided to stay in this race, something she was asked about on the air and after the fact, after her appearance in the hallway yesterday. I can't wait to say to President Biden what you said this morning. I'm not having any conversation with you or anybody else about what I talked to the president about. We don't do this, y'all. Do you believe that? I never do. I never do. So it's nothing now. I understand that speaker. Do you believe that him waiting so long to make this decision? I'm not going to make any comments in the hallway about the fate of our nation. Are you concerned whether or not he can win in November?

I think he can win in November. Do you believe he should run for re-election? I'm not. Am I speaking English to you? I'm not going to be making any statements about any of that right now in the hallway. Truth is, she's the most powerful Democrat, but not the only one to pretend they've heard nothing from Joe Biden. We're just going to wait for his decision. We're just going to wait till he decides what to do. They're all pretending that he hasn't already done that. Mr. Biden, meantime, has been all but lighting himself on fire to tell everyone he's not going anywhere. I don't think anybody's more qualified to be president or win this race than me. It's up to the president to decide if he is going to run.

I'm here in North Carolina for one reason, because I intend to win this state in November. We're all encouraging him to make that decision because time is running short. Well, let me say this as clearly as I can. I'm staying in the race. I have complete confidence that Joe Biden will do the patriotic thing for the country, and he's going to make that decision. The bottom line here is that we're not going anywhere. Whatever he decides, we go with. I am not going anywhere. Now, this morning, we get news via Politico that Ms. Pelosi is privately saying behind the scenes that Joe Biden should step aside, that he cannot win this November. Political citing, quote, about a half dozen lawmakers and others, end quote, for this reporting, which means she's not even trying now to keep it a secret. On the heels of all that, Axios is out this morning with reporting that Senator Chuck Schumer, too, who earlier this week repeated the phrase when asked

about this whole thing over and over, I'm with Joe, I'm with Joe, I'm with Joe, is also behind the scenes about as committed to Joe as Leonardo DiCaprio is to his about to turn 25 year old girlfriends. Mr. Schumer now privately signaling to donors that he is, in fact, open to a ticket without Joe Biden at the top, following a barrage of phone calls from deep pocketed Democrats, the ones who keep him in office, as well as his fellow senators, who are all melting down about the fact that the Republicans are going to win the Senate. Never mind. Hold on to the House. But what about Hakeem Jeffries? We've heard less from him, Congress's other most powerful Democrat. He's the minority leader in the House. Moments before we came to air, Jake Shermanerman of punchbowl news news reported that he caught up

with mr jeffries and asked him directly about mr biden staying on as the nominee was the response i'm with joe or james cliburn's i'm riding with bind i'm riding with biden not exactly he told sherman that he's looking forward to concluding his talks with every single House Democrat, adding, quote, we'll convene as a leadership team and figure out the next step, end quote. What does that mean? What's to decide? The president has made clear he's decided he's all in. What step are you deciding? What are you talking to every single House Democrat about? Clearly, it's not over. News today as well about the man at the very top of the Democratic leadership ranks, and that is former President Barack Obama. Remember yesterday, that scathing op-ed in

the New York Times by Democratic fundraiser actor George Clooney? Well, it appears he gave Mr. Obama, his close friend, the heads up about this piece and surprise, surprise, reportedly received no objection, which was obvious to anyone who knew anything about the two men's close friendship. There was no way George Clooney would have done this without Barack Obama's blessing or many believe at Barack Obama's urging. Clooney claimed that the fundraiser he sponsored for Joe Biden three weeks ago, that that president who was there was the debate Joe Biden, the Atlanta Joe Biden, not the Joe Biden of 2010. This is a big effing deal or even of 2020. Conveniently left out of

the op-ed is any explanation for why George Clooney said nothing of the president's diminished state after the event, particularly when the news world exploded with a debate about whether the videos from that fundraiser accurately portrayed Joe Biden as a frail, lost, elderly man who needed help getting off the stage or whether those videos were cheap fakes, as the White House and others claimed. Where was Mr. Clooney then? The Biden camp now says George Clooney was only there for a few minutes for a photo op before he peaced out. Maybe that's true. But what about Barack Obama? He was there much longer. He was actually with President Biden on stage. We all saw it with our own eyes. And part of the cheap fake moment,

where's his account? Why won't he tell us now what he saw? After all, the country's facing an existential threat with the possible reelection of Donald Trump. Why would Mr. Obama leave it to others to deliver some direly needed straight talk to the nation? What did you see, sir? There's a fight, an important one now between George Clooney, one of the largest Democratic fundraisers, and Joe Biden and Barack Obama can settle it. He can settle it all. Okay. He's a former president. Maybe he doesn't want to get directly involved in these squabbles that could determine the presidency and in Democrats eyes, the future of our very country. But what about Barbara Streisand, Jimmy Kimmel? They were there too. What did they see?

They've been remarkably silent. She tweets every two seconds. Where's your tweet about this? Why won't they tell us what they saw? Democracy dies in darkness, people. Don't forget, they're terrified. You all know what they saw. They saw what we saw.

They saw the frail elderly man who needed help getting off the stage. They're just too chicken shit to tell us about it because they accurately deduce that he could still be the Democratic nominee and they don't want to ding him up. Maybe you give Barbara a pass. Who gives a damn what this singer saw or says? But you know what? Jimmy Kimmel happens to be employed by ABC, which happens to have a rather large news organization. And he has been one of President Trump's most vocal critics. Where are you, Jimmy? On vacation? Not good enough. You can still use your thumbs to send out a tweet. You could set the record straight right now, but you won't. Jon Favreau, he was also at the fundraiser, former Obama staffer and Pod Save America co-host.

Now he's out there saying everyone at the event saw what George Clooney saw. I mean, it was not surprising to any of us who were at the fundraiser. I was there. Clooney was exactly right. And every single person I talked to at the fundraiser, I was there. Clooney was exactly right. And every single person I talked to at the fundraiser thought the same thing,

except for the people working for Joe Biden, or at least they didn't say that. But I remember my wife, Emily, turned to me after the fundraiser and said, what are we going to do? I mean, and I said, well, there's a debate in a week. Either he'll do well in the debate and we'll think, well, he was just tired

because he flew all the way back from Europe and that'll be that. Or he'll be like this at the debate and then the whole country will be talking about it. And so here we are. I see. So he saw it too. And he's got a very big platform. Did he use it the next day to tell us all, hello, five alarm fire people, Joe Biden is infirm and no longer there. He did a show the next day. Let's listen to what he said. If I took a poll and someone said, does the conviction make you less likely to vote for Donald Trump? I would say no. No, I'm 100 percent. I was never going to vote for him ever.

Trump visited a black church in Detroit and then spoke at the Turning Points USA conference. And TPUSA is known for its ties to white supremacists. Trump got the name of the doctor wrong when he was demanding that Joe Biden take a cognitive test and talk about how he is. It's Ron Jackson. When you're going to accuse someone of cognitive decline, you want to get the doctor's name right. Oh, my God. So the very issue of Biden's cognitive decline, at least as Trump was criticizing it, came up. And he said nothing but to criticize Trump for misstating a name. Nothing. Just like virtually every other Democratic talking head over the last three years. Zero courage,

zero capacity or desire for truth telling if it would harm anyone on Team Blue. Which leads me to Corrine Jean-Pierre. Tough to say whether she's the biggest liar among the president's defenders, but she's definitely in the running. Here is her pre-debate spin on the so-called cheap fakes that were falsely portraying Mr. Biden as diminishing. Do you have any concerns right now that this is the leading edge of any part of a Russian effort to interfere in the election? Has the president been briefed on this? And have you seen any evidence that the Russians or other foreign powers have tried to seize on the debate performance to repeat some of the president's

most embarrassing moments? So that's a very good question. I would leave it to the Department of Justice as what they announced. And obviously that's for them to speak to. Look, AI has always been a concern. That's why the president made some announcements recently

to take executive action on how we can deal with AI. Great. Could be. We've Got to look into it. Maybe the Department of Justice will figure out whether these are cheap fakes. Maybe you should just call like your biggest fundraisers, George Clooney and your biggest supporters in the Democratic Party, like the Pod Save America guys. Just ask them. They were there. You can find out so easy. Time and time again, this woman came out to the press corps who are there to bring clarity to the American people who employ her. You're her

boss. So am I. And defended the president's vim and vigor. It is hard for us to keep up with this president. He has a grueling schedule that he keeps up with, that sometimes some of us are not able to keep up with. My gosh, he's the president of the United States. I can't even keep up with him. I'll quote a little bit of what the first lady said, I think incredibly well, just a couple days ago. President Biden does more in one hour than most people do in a day. And then came the debate and the reporting about the neurologist visiting the White House nine times, at least in the past year, and then genuine anger from the press corps, which behind the scenes we now know

has been getting pummeled by this White House for even asking about Mr. Biden's cognitive well-being. James Rosen banned from press conferences for eight months after he went there with the president. Others, with their hands slapped and shamed for daring to bring up the topic. That's her doing that. That's her office. Those are her colleagues at the campaign as well.

Now she comes out this week and she acts the way someone who knows they've done wrong acts. She acts the way your dog acts when he ate the brownies and crapped in your living room. Ears back, kind of sweet, slightly ashamed and desirous of currying favor with the ones they wronged. Watch this. I do take offense to what Ed alluded to. You know, come out here every day, there's a press briefing. And we do our best to give you the information that we have at the time. That's what we do. And we understand the freedom of the press. We respect the freedom of the press. I appreciate the back and forth that we all have. It is, I try to respect you,

and I hope you try to respect me. My team does everything that we can to make sure we get the answers to you. That's what we do. And sometimes we disagree. Sometimes we are not in agreement. But you know what? That's democracy.

To say that I'm holding information or allude to anything else is not unfair. It's really, really unfair. And I will admit, I will be the first one to admit, sometimes I get it wrong. At least I admit that. At least I admit that. Do you? Do you? I couldn't believe it when I watched this.

When I heard this live, my jaw dropped. Please like me. It wasn't me. There could be congressional investigations of this disgusting cover up, which is exactly like your dog's dump in the living room, by the way. It stinks to high heaven and it is nearly impossible to clean up. She was finding out that out real time. This was the first stage of coming to grips with the fact that the American people, not just Republicans, but all of us are onto her. We know we've been spoon fed lies. Yes, I know if you watch this show, you knew that long ago, but her side is finding it out. So she's panicked as she sought to shore up her relationships with people who buy ink by the barrel. She lied more. The press exposed the fact that a neurologist had been visiting the

White House residence clinic. OK, now, according to Dr. Ronnie Jackson, who was the White House doctor for both Obama and for Trump, he says that's right below the president's bedroom and it is dedicated only to members of the first family. Right. And she tried to take that visit and tell the press that that meeting with this doctor was not about President Biden at all. I just want to get a clarification on the letter that was sent last night from Dr. O'Connor. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it didn't seem to explicitly describe the nature of Dr. Kinnar's meeting with Dr. O'Connor. So can you say whether that one meeting was related to care for the president himself?

I can say that it was not. It was not. Okay, great. And can I just ask why that information that was released last night just wasn't set up the briefing yesterday. Well, no, actually, a lot of what is in the letter was said at the briefing. To be very, very clear, I said many of the things that were laid out in the letter was actually repeated right here behind this lectern at this podium yesterday. By the way, she has a tell. She always says we've been very clear when she's going to tell a lie. We've been clear either precedes or follows her

lies often. And what she said there was exposed as a lie. That meeting was about Joe Biden. That was later outed. And she had to again, dog with the tail between the legs, come back to the lectern and admit it when the press caught her. She also tried to tell the press that the president had not seen a doctor post debate when that was exposed as a lie to by the president himself. He was meeting with those Democratic governors and he told them he'd been seen by a doctor. She then tried to say, well, what she meant was he hadn't gotten a full physical since the debate, which nobody was even asking about. But of course, Mr. Biden sees doctors every day. She wants us to know it's every day. It's not because of the debate or his performance there. He sees a doctor every day conveniently when he's

drinking green juice and pumping iron. Can you elaborate on what the difference is between a check-in and an exam? At these check-ins, does Dr. Conner or another staff member take the president's vitals or anything like that? They're verbal check-ins with the president. They check in. As the president's exercising, that's usually how this happens. Okay. Sure. Sure, Jan. As an added cherry on top of all of this, we get her self-aggrandizing rewrite of her own behavior. It has been an unprecedented time. I think you guys could admit that, right? It is an

unprecedented time. And so we are meeting the that, right? It is an unprecedented time. And so we are meeting the moment, a new moment that has never really existed before. We're meeting the moment. You know, we admit when we're wrong. We respect you guys. We appreciate the back and forth of this room. My Lord. After this gaslighting, we got to the phase we tend to get from most liars when their lies are exposed. Jean-Pierre got defensive and she feigned indignation when pressed on her many, many, many lies. This particular exchange with a CBS News reporter was about those neurology visits. I do take offense to what Ed alluded to. You know, come out here every day there's a press briefing and we do our best to give you the information that we have at the time. We understand the freedom of the press. We respect the freedom of the press. My team does everything that we can

to make sure we get the answers to you. That's what we do. To say that I'm holding information or allude to anything else is not unfair. It's really, really unfair. And I will admit, I will be the first one to admit, sometimes I get it wrong. At least I admit that. At least I admit that. So you heard of that there. A little similar to the first one, but more indignation. You know what a liar sounds like by this point in the program. You hear me talk about it all the time. Attacking the question and the questioner, classic responses of someone who is lying. I take offense.

No one gives a shit whether you're offended. No one, literally no one cares. You're the White House press secretary. You were there to take a beating. You're there to provide information. And when you don't, and even when you do to take a beating, you do that for the president. That's the job. You don't, you don't take offense. There's no offense. Take the questions, answer the questions, be truthful. And if you can't be truthful, get out of bounds. That's what you should do. If you're trying to protect your boss, not lie repeatedly and not tell us not to believe our own lying eyes and

not give us bullshit like you can't even keep up with him. My God. The press corps has no respect for this woman or quite frankly, for her boss at this point or his other staff. The press are angry. Yes. Even the bent press that are completely wrapped around the axle for Democrats are angry because they feel foolish. They've also been made fools of. And that same press corps is going to be there this evening when Joe Biden holds a 6.30 p.m. news conference after his NATO meetings. First, it was 5.30, then they moved it to 6.30. We are getting dangerously close to bedtime. This is the first time he's had a presser in months and during what can fairly be described as a stressful week. The White House expects big things from Mr. Biden this evening.

Whatever you may think of him, he has their total respect and reverence. Here they were describing this upcoming presser. This week, President Biden will speak to national labor leaders of AFL-CIO, host the NATO summit to show the unprecedented strength of our alliance, hold a press conference, a big boy press conference, according to Justin Singh from Bloomberg. After that, the president will hold a press conference, I guess a big boy press conference is what we're calling it. Oh my God. Okay. I realized that was first penned by someone in the press. They picked it up and went with it. So tonight, Joe Biden will hold a big boy presser trying to convince Pelosi, Schumer, Jeffries, Obama, and, he can eat his peas and chicken, too. He can stay up late and get his homework done on time. He can go on the potty and pull up his own

big boy pants. And the dignity of his office already grossly diminished by this dishonest cast of characters will fall even lower. I don't see how Joe Biden can survive here. I know it's better for Trump if he does. I don't really care. He's not fit. His staff is part of the biggest presidential cover up in decades. He needs to step down from the presidency, never mind the campaign, for the safety of the country. That's what a big boy would do. We'll be right back with Rick Grinnell. Do you think America's headed in the right direction? Unfortunately, the next generation does not understand the values that have made America the greatest nation on earth, but PragerU is helping to counter that. PragerU is a conservative nonprofit

that promotes American values through educational videos. They're amazing. That reach millions of young people every single day. You can learn anything on PragerU. Just spend some time going around and you'll see so many fun videos that will be interesting and educational to you. Right now, PragerU has an amazing opportunity. If you donate any amount, even just one buck, they will send you PragerU American flag socks made in the USA as a thank you gift. That's fun. Drive your relatives nuts at Thanksgiving by wearing your PragerU American flag socks and showing them off. Make sure you go to PragerU.com forward slash socks to make your donation. Just a dollar will get it done. You can support a great organization and

express your love of American values and style while doing so. Your donation will help PragerU reach more people with their videos, which is needed now more than ever. Get that messaging out far and wide. Make a 100% tax-deductible donation at PragerU.com forward slash Sox, and get your socks today. Joining me now, former ambassador and acting director of national intelligence, Rick Grinnell. It was just announced he will be speaking at the Republican National Convention next week on Wednesday night. That's big. That's actually a very prime role. Rick, great to see you. Thanks for being back on. What did you make of my opening thoughts on just the massive dishonesty being fire hosed against all of us right now?

I mean, that was a brilliant monologue. I'm not sure that we could even add anything to it. You should just run that on loop for the next two hours. That was a total takedown. It was fantastic, filled with humor, filled with outrage, all the emotions that all of us are having right now. of our nation is not going to be talked about in the hallway, which was really my favorite moment for her to say, this is so important. I'm not going to talk in the hallway. And then she stops and says, am I speaking English to the reporter? She's so condescending. The reporter having to be black, if that had been you, Rick Grinnell, saying that to a black reporter, they'd be running 10 pieces on how you're a racist. Exactly. It's so juicy to watch them finally get tough questions from the media. But, you know, one thing that I just have to say, I have zero sympathy for the reporters. They covered this up. They all knew this. They're embarrassed. Yes. Yet they are the ones who literally were

speaking propaganda for the ruling party. There are dictators around the world that are jealous of the system in Washington, D.C. This is really pathetic. And there needs to be a full investigation. There needs to be a January 6th style, real investigation of who covered this up. We're the greatest nation in the history of the world. We should not be having a press corps working with the Democrats to hide the health of the president of the United States. This is dangerous. We're on full display as NATO members are in Washington, D.C. I was just in Washington, D.C. talking with several delegations. They're all talking about this. They're all nervous.

Imagine what Iran and North Korea and China and Venezuela. Imagine what they're all planning and thinking. This is a very dangerous moment for America. So now we have some people playing this pretend game that Joe Biden's presser at 630 will determine the future of Joe Biden's candidacy and the very country, like the existence of the country could be in the balance tonight because they have to win because Trump is on the other side and they have to get this right. And so we have to pretend that there's some sort of a beauty show going on tonight at 630, where they're going to take their last look at this Biden horse and decide whether it's got the legs to actually run the race.

I mean, this is so absurd. We saw we saw what we saw at the debate. I personally, I don't care what he does in his interview. Now he's giving an interview to Lester Holt on Monday or what he did in his interview with Stephanopoulos last Friday or what he says tonight at 630 at this presser. I have enough information to make a judgment. And so does everyone. So you tell me you've been around politics a long time. What are the Democrats doing right now? What is the game at the moment? Well, it's just simply a power play. Look, my attitude right now is why is it such a big deal that they went through the entire Democrat primary? He won every state. He became the nominee. They got to live with it. They chose their nominee for November. So now it's a choice. It's either Joe Biden or Donald Trump. It's not the end of the world

if they lose an election, but the press are acting like, oh my gosh, we're going to lose, so we have to change horses now. I mean, I remember the time when the Democrats were talking about undermining democracy, something or other. And so now we're faced with they went through the whole process. They knew. Are you kidding me? Did they know in December of last year or January of this year that Joe Biden was failing? Of course they did. We were mocked when we pointed it out. If you watch CNN or MSNBC or just read the New York Times or the Washington Post, you're surprised. If you watched the Megyn Kelly show, Newsmax, Fox, a whole bunch of other outlets, you are not shocked. You've been watching this train wreck and you've been mocked for bringing it up. And so, you know, the juicy part of your monologue was pointing out how many people went to just the latest fundraiser in Los Angeles and stayed silent.

I mean, Jon Favreau's wife had to bring it up to say, oh, my gosh, are you seeing this? So his wife was nudging him. He didn't see it. The wife brought it up. And so I think that we have to hold these people to account. They went through the primary. They chose their guy. They now have to live with it in November. I do think it's a separate question right now is are we able to to have Joe Biden as a competent president? They seem to think yes, because he's been sick, but they want him to still be the nominee. But it's a separate question, should he step back from the presidency? My gut says they're going to keep him there. They're going to celebrate him all the way through. They are going to let him be the nominee because he's not going anywhere. But you and I both know if for some reason lightning strikes and God intervenes and they win and Joe Biden wins, he'll last a very short time and they'll

hand it over to Kamala. You know, it's amazing because they've they've make the argument that Joe Biden is not the most effective messenger against Donald Trump. That's how they're saying it, because they don't want him to be 25th Amendmented right out of office. They can't say what we all know is real, which is he's not fit, not fit now. He's certainly not going to be fit for another four years. So they've chosen to argue it in a way that would allow them to disqualify him as the candidate, but allow him to remain in office for the next seven months. And to your earlier point, not only were people like you and me, everybody like Fox Newsmax all dismissed as, you know, crazy right-wing conspiracy theorists for raising the issue of his infirmity, we were called ageists, ableists, and that's continuing in some circles.

Listen to this Democratic representative from Nevada out here just this week. More than 70% of voters think that President Biden is not demonstrating the capacity to be president. 56% of Democrats say that they would be better off with another nominee. Those are the concerns that I'm talking about that are showing up in the numbers and that are affecting his approval rating. What I find interesting is that issue is more around ageism and ableism and not what this president, President Biden, has done. Oh, my God. I mean, Rick, that's just not going to work. Nice try, Stephen Hosford, but no, that's not going to work.

Yeah, look, we are not talking about the message of the Democrats at all. We're only talking about the messenger. And I do think it's convenient for them to pretend like it's just Joe Biden, that it's not about two wars, gas prices, an open border, inflation, all of those issues, which is why the American people have been outraged. They are not supporting Joe Biden and the Democrats. The Democrats are going to lose not simply because Joe Biden is old, but because they have a terrible message. They're trying to scramble and pretend like it's just Joe Biden to distract, like if we just replaced Joe Biden and had Kamala Harris, that somehow gas prices

are going to be fine again. It's going to take them a lot of money and a lot of different messengers to convince people that inflation is not real and that the border is closed and that we don't have two horrific wars of massive killing. I believe that the message is literally why they're losing. It's not just simply the messenger. And I'll finish with this. We have to, in America, understand that there are consequences for our decisions. We don't just get to change and improve everything just simply because we're losing. We don't get to change the Supreme Court when we lose by adding additional judges. We can't change the rules. And so I think that we have to stand up as a system and say the Democrats chose through the primary process their nominee. You don't get to change that now unless you want to undermine democracy with a bunch of elites. You chose this guy. You knew

all of this information. None of this information is new. You chose him anyway. You have to live with that decision. He's your nominee. It's it's so fascinating to hear. Like we talked about this yesterday, this weird dynamic has evolved where the Trump defenders and teammates are, they want Biden, they're defending Biden. And I see why, of course I see why. He's feeble, he's frail, he's ineffective, he's obviously incompetent. So I get it. But we've been saying that for three years.

That's not a new message either. No, it's not. I know you've said some of it on this show too, but it's just such an interesting dynamic that like the core Trumpers are aligned with the core Biden team on the fact that Joe Biden must remain the nominee. So but let me ask you this as somebody who's on Team Trump. What if he's not? What if they exercise the in good conscience clause that delegates are allowed to follow, you know, and say, well, new information and I can't in good conscience, you know, vote for him, even though I am a Joe Biden delegate and they find a way to force that to happen or to force him to step out.

Yeah. Is there anybody, anybody that you're looking at as like a preferred person to run against in the backup class? Well, I think that we're pretty confident and most people in Washington are pretty confident that it has to be Kamala Harris. You can't skip over her. I am in Los Angeles. I live in California. I have a lot of friends who work for Gavin Newsom, know Gavin well, and he doesn't want to run.

He doesn't want to mount a presidential campaign in four weeks. All of this media attention to him is bogus. Imagine trying to mount a billion dollar campaign in four weeks. It's not going to go well. And then that's his one shot. And then he's done. I think the same thing is with Gretchen Whitmer and Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar and all of the others who want to run for president. They know it's too late. They would rather see Joe Biden lose

and then there's an open field where they have a long time to develop their message, raise money and run for president. They're taking the long view here. So that's why so many are supporting Joe Biden. Gavin Newsom just wants a shot later and he wants to look loyal now. And and, you know, the reality is, is his team is rejecting the idea of trying to put together a presidential campaign in four weeks. It's Kamala if he if Joe Biden does step back. And that's where I go with the message is the most important. They're still going to lose, but it will give them a Hail Mary to try to, especially if

it's Kamala Harris, to try to just talk about abortion. She would be easily beatable, but it does give them an adjustment. They cannot adjust away from her and they cannot adjust away from the message that is a terrible message and an incompetent message. She's been right there. I also think she should be dragged in to this future congressional hearing on the cover up of the president of the United States is health because she is literally having a front row seat to this entire train wreck. And she's yet to stand up and say something. She's the one who could hold on to the hundred

million dollar war chest because she is on the ticket. She's nominated right now as VP. So according to what I read, I'm not an expert on campaign finance and how, who gets to keep which donations, but, um, she could keep it according to the experts. So that's a, that's a benefit, but you tell me what would the calculation look like for those guys on that side who don't want her when it comes to that hundred million? If if Joe Biden can't or won't release it and they don't want her, I think if I were a Democrat, I'd be telling myself we'll raise more. We've got a lot of deep pockets. We'll ask George Clooney for half of it. You know, we've got a lot of people who

want to see an open contest. Don't worry about the hundred million. Or do you think that's big enough that they they are going to very much worry about it? Look, I think they have to worry about it because the reality is people like Gavin Newsom and Gretchen Whitmer and Pete Buttigieg, they don't want Kamala to be the nominee because then she could possibly be there for eight years. I think she loses. But their calculus on their side, where they literally live in an alternative universe, they think, oh, well, she'll beat Trump and then she'll be there for eight years. So these people are power hungry. They are looking at their power and when they can get it and they don't want to wait eight years. Again, they would much rather just support Joe

like they are and let him go down and then they can come back in four years. Really, they would much rather just support Joe like they are and let him go down, and then they can come back in four years. Really, it's two and a half years when they start running their next presidential race. But remember, too, that the expense of rebranding is enormous in every single state. They're going to have to print new signs. They're going to have to do new websites. They're going to have to completely redo all of the branding that they've spent money on. The cost is enormous and they are not able to just pick up and raise money with Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer. They have to stick with Kamala. The other thing is it could be really messy if they do open it up because there's a whole bunch of people that want to run. And as we see in California, you know, the DEI programs are the ones that immediately rise to the top. And you'll have a lot of people saying it's my turn because of, you know, my my gender, my sexual orientation or the color of my

skin. Mm hmm. Do you think Team Trump is ready for anyone? Right. We've all heard the same names on the alleged short list, and now it's gone beyond, you know, the new and exciting ones, according to the Democrats, are people like Gretchen Whitmer, Raphael Warnock down in Georgia. We've heard some other names, Josh Shapiro out of Pennsylvania. But I'm also hearing now that the circle enlarging to include people like Klobuchar, like Buttigieg, like some of the also rands who lost even Bernie Sanders to Joe Biden, you know, four years ago. Do you think Team Trump is ready to run against any of those with oppo, you know, oppo research on at the ready? Look, I go the answer. The short answer is yes. But I go back to the fact that, you know,

we are going to concentrate on the message, not just the messenger. It kind of doesn't matter who their messenger is. They can get a bump. They can get a short term pop from a messenger. But they still are a party that is way far left, way woke. They don't want to energy in our country and we see gas prices going crazy. They don't have the answer on the message, on the policy, so it kind of doesn't matter. But that list that you just gave of all the people that really might want to jump in, that is the exact reason why they won't have an open fight at the convention. They know it's a mess. They know a lot of hard feelings are going to are going to, you know, come to the surface.

They have to go with Kamala if Joe steps back. But I remain in the camp that Joe is their nominee. There's enough people that just say, leave him there and lose. You know, let's support him. And then we all have a chance to fight it out later. They don't want to give Kamala Harris the leg up by saying, OK, she just gets to come in and become the nominee because we don't have enough time. I also think that a lot of independents are going to see that as really crappy and undermining

democracy. And we all said that this is what they were planning on doing and they denied it. So we're going to look like even more like a bunch of liars than what they are. And I think they suffer huge losses. I think I'd stick with Joe at the end of the day. On the subject of the Clooney op-ed yesterday, there's reporting out today that the White House actually had a heads up. It hit Wednesday morning that they had a heads up on Tuesday. He was going to do it. And they unleashed all their power to try to stop it, including dispatching Jeffrey Katzenberg, you know, movie mogul in Hollywood, who's co-chairing the Biden campaign to try to stop him from doing it.

Clooney doesn't answer to Jeffrey Katzenberg and refused to stop. By the way, not for nothing, but Jeffrey Katzenberg told me personally in 2016 he would spend any amount to get Hillary Clinton elected. We all saw how that worked out. So I know they're all drunk on their own perceived power. It's not as great as they think it is. But what do you think about this? You know, the reports out today that he ran it by Obama, that Obama had no objection. And I think you and I both know if Obama wanted to stop it, he could have. And there's probably a greater likelihood than not that he may have even orchestrated it. So Obama seems to want Biden gone. I think that's why he shepherded him off the stage with the arm at the fundraiser. It's why all of his guys, Axelrod, Begala, Favreau, and more of that pod saved him.

They're all out there taking shots at Biden. I don't think they'd all be doing that if Obama were firmly in the Biden camp. So does he still have any power? Look, I think your monologue was brilliant on this subject, how you laid it out. People should go back and listen to it. But you're exactly right. Obama could have stopped this. Now, whether or not he was pushing it and approving it is one thing, but he absolutely could have stopped it. He didn't stop it. And all of his lieutenants are piling on. So I think it's a free for all from Team Obama.

They recognize that Joe was not really the best person to put forward. He's Joe is ruining their brand. I think it's a big problem for them. But I live in Los Angeles. I'm here in Los Angeles now. And I have to tell you, you know, as much as I can't stand George Clooney's politics, he's touching on something that every progressive, every far lefty in Los Angeles is saying. There's chaos in L.A. They don't want Joe Biden. But these people are not political masters. They don't understand the process. So they think, oh, let's just switch them when they learn. Oh, wait, there was a Democrat process. He's the nominee. You can't really switch it without

opening it up. Then they're like, oh, no, this is terrible. The nonpolitical people are the ones that say, oh, well, let's just put in Michelle Obama or let's put in somebody that we think can beat Trump. But that's incredibly complicated. You can't just do that. And when the nonpolitical people in Los Angeles learn that, they just say, oh, well, we're going to lose. And so they're not giving as much. They're not going to vote. I'm telling you, it's going to be a bloodbath, if we can use that term, in an election. And not only is Joe Biden going to lose, but I think a lot of Democrats aren't going to get the support because people aren't going to come out to the polls. They're not that excited. Let me tell you something. Clooney's going to

win either way because he's partners with Randy Gerber, Cindy Crawford's husband, and he's an entrepreneur on that liquor. You know, what's the one of Casamigos? And I think they sold part of it, but they must still have some of it because Cindy Crawford was just out there pushing the Casamigos version of it. So as the liquor sales go up, along with the despondency. Clooney wins either way. But I do want to show you this. The crew over at Morning Joe, which, you know, depending on the day they're with or for against, you know, Joe Biden, they were 100 percent in his pocket. And then they saw what we saw. And Joe Scarborough had a moment of honesty like he can't do it. Holy crap. And now within, you know, a couple of days he went back to never mind, never mind. I'm a bootlicker. That's where I'm most comfortable. And this is what they were saying about the Obama thing today.

My kids again. This wasn't George Clooney. But, but, well, what do you mean? It just wasn't, come on. What, well, who do you think it was? Matt Damon? It was not Matt Damon. Who do you think it was? It wasn't Julia Roberts either. Who do you think it was? You can say the name, you won't melt. It's not Voldemort. Are you saying you think Barack Obama put him up to this? I think that Barack Obama has a lot of influence. There are two people

in this picture, and one has had a presidency that was absolutely, undeniably historic. Yeah. Well, I think you have two people that had extraordinarily- Oh, I'm sorry, historic in terms of legislative accomplishments. The Biden campaign and many Democratic officials do believe that Barack Obama is quietly working behind the scenes to orchestrate this. Joe Biden is deeply resentful of his treatment under not only the Obama staff, but also the way he was pushed aside for Hillary Clinton. Well, I think that's true, Rick, don't you? Pass the popcorn. I'm here all day for this. I've been waking up and watching Morning Joe, I have to admit, because it is juicy and brilliant. They don't know what to do. There's a total meltdown. Every guest is shooting each other. They're not used to having media that ask tough questions. This is a party that has literally pushed propaganda and discipline amongst everyone, and they don't like dissenting views. that they can crush conservative views on social media and cancel people because they do it all the

time in their own party and nobody pushes back. So I love to watch what's happening right now. I'm a huge Morning Joe fan. I'm watching every single episode because they made this bed and I want to watch them sleep in it. Yes. Roll around. Feel the goodness. We'll all watch. It's like the weirdest porno ever. Why? But we have to. It is kind of amazing. I'll say right before we go to break, there's a little window here into what life would be like if you had an active, honest press corps. That is such would just cover the story. That is such a brilliant point. Yes, yes, yes. Imagine.

It's like this alternate universe, this sliding door, and it will slide back closed again just as soon as they decide who the Democratic nominee will be. Rick Grinnell stays with me. Up next, wait until you hear what Ezra Klein admitted to on a podcast yesterday.

As we mentioned, President Biden is preparing for his so-called big boy press conference. I'm telling you, this reminds me, I have a dentist and I like my dentist, but every time I went in, I did Invisalign not long ago. And every time I went in for a checkup, I'd say, how much longer? And he'd go, just another month if you're a good girl. And then I'd go back and he'd be another month. If you're a good girl. And then I go back and he'd be like, but you've been a good girl. So you're going to get them up. And I went home to Doug and I'm like, Doug, I don't know what to say to him. And he said, you just got to look at him and you've got to say, you're going to have to find a different way of speaking to me. So I'm like, I'm doing it the next time I'm doing it. So I went in and I was

all set to save this line to the dentist, but then he was so full of effusive praise of how well I'd been wearing the Invisalign and how I got it over and done with in four months. I didn't have the guts to say it. And then Doug went into the dentist, same dentist, and said, gee, she loved the Invisalign so much. Maybe I should get the Invisalign. And, uh, you know, she just was such a big fan. And the dentist said, that's because she was a good girl. Like I was a German shepherd. That's okay. We're in the same territory right now. So we're having a big boy press conference tonight and he's going to have to face off with the media who are not happy with him unscripted while we wait to see what happens there. We'll have full coverage of that for you tomorrow. Uh, the media meantime is turning its attention back to the real devil in this race. And that is, of course, Donald Trump.

Yes, The New York Times is now calling on Americans to reject both of the presumptive nominees. Let's just clean slate it going in on the left. I guess we'll have Kamala Harris. And on the right, we'll have their preferred candidate of like Mitt Romney or Adam Kinzinger. In an ominous looking editorial with a black background, the Times says in all caps that Mr. Trump is dangerous in word, deed, and action. As the reader scrolls down, it then reveals the words, he puts self over country. Scroll further, he loathes the laws we live by. And then it ends with Donald Trump is unfit to lead. Then there's once again,

President Biden's favorite morning show host, MSNBC's Joe Scarborough, who dramatically compared what America is facing right now to America in the run upup to the Civil War. Democrats have to unite against the immediate threat before America's 240-year constitutional republic is no more. This result is not doubtful, Lincoln said. We shall not fail if we stand firm. We shall not fail if we stand together. Because so said Lincoln then, and so says a watchful and very worried nation now. Okay. Well, while Scarborough waxes poetic about the grave threats of Donald Trump, who he supported his entire campaign for the White House was only when he found out reportedly that he wasn't going to be the vice presidential nominee or in the president have failed to recognize one of the most troubling aspects of the whole story. And that is his hypocrisy, his ongoing lying, people like Scarborough, and that of the press and the Democrats. The American people continue to be

lied to daily. Over and over again, we are seeing examples of the politicians, these are Democrats, the media, and the president's backers saying one thing in private and something very, very different in public from the people who attended the president's fundraisers and didn't say a word about how feeble he was. We went over that to the so-called leaders of this country. As we reported in our first hour, Politico reporting that Speaker Amirata, as Nancy Pelosi calls herself, has privately suggested to some half a dozen lawmakers that President Biden's not going to win and he should step aside. But on camera, she's not saying that. And apparently she's not alone. The New York Times' Ezra Klein dropped this bombshell. The New York Times, that's the one who just did the unfit, scary, all caps. All right, there, Ezra Klein just dropped this

bombshell on the Bulwark podcast that top Democrats tell him, off the record, of course, they don't actually see Donald Trump as an existential threat. Listen. I think it is clear, like people are like weighing this set of things. Like it's, you know, it would be quite unpleasant for me personally to come out against the president, um, as a elected official in a prophetic party and weighing what will happen if Donald Trump wins and saying, you know, in a revealed preference way, I can live with Donald Trump winning. Um, and I've had people say that to me off the record, to be fair, I've had, I've had top Democrats say to me basically something like i don't know why all these democrats who think donald trump is an existential threat to democracy are acting the

way they are but the reason i'm acting the way i am is because i don't who the fuck is this who are your sources i'm in i'm about to be in leaking text mode over here myself. Like, that is crazy. That's great. I guess it's consistent, but it's maddening. No? I find it maddening, but I do find it consistent, right? I do find it to be a... Look, you could say this is true in a lot of things, right? It's a charge Republicans always throw at liberals, which is that if they really believe climate change is such a problem,

they wouldn't fly on planes. This is amazing. Back with me now, Rick Grinnell. So they lifted the dress up, Rick. And under there, they found a bunch of Democrats who are ready to vote Trump or at least don't really find him that big a problem. Yeah, they're undermining their message. They're saying their message is not working. Look what you're missing through all of this conversation, Morning Joe and all the others. They're not talking policies. They're not defending their policies. They're literally talking about everything else. I mean, Morning Joe was telling people to, you know, stand together in a very whispered way. The Morning Joe guests are not even standing together. They can't get the Democratic Party to stand together, let alone the entire country. We have been gaslit. We knew that Joe Biden was absolutely declining, and yet they decided to tell us that we were all

cheap fakes and they were going to have their primary anyway. And anyone who challenged him got silenced. I had a Wall Street Journal reporter yesterday tell me when I was pushing back on this whole narrative that she suddenly now sees what's going on. And I said, oh, please, you have been watching this train wreck for years. This is about you and the media as much as it's about Joe Biden. And you know what she said to me? When we tried to bring anything up, they cut us out. They froze us out. We didn't have any access. They've weaponized the press corps into dutiful people. There's no speaking truth to power from this press corps. They're all nervous about not being able to have access to the power brokers. But everything flips

if Donald Trump comes in and the press is suddenly going to be vicious attack dogs. I love your point, Megan, about imagine a world where we just had skeptical media for both sides. We would be so much better off. I believe, one, you wouldn't have Joe Biden at the top of the ticket because he would have been, you know, gone through some sort of scrutiny in the beginning. We wouldn't even have Kamala Harris, because if you're a California politician, you're never scrutinized. You're never vetted. Our media here just let the DEIs rise to the top while the straight white guy at the top is picking all of these other people. And so we have to have a world where the media absolutely does their job. I hope that this is a moment that shakes them and that they begin to say,

OK, we've got to change the way we're teaching journalists. We can't have recycle and repeat. We can't use each other as sources. There's a whole bunch that needs to change. I think the older journalists know this, but we've got a generation of young journalists who are absolutely terrible at doing real journalism. And I think this is the moment. I mean, I'll tell you this. If Trump wins, their skepticism will remain intact. They can ride their existing skepticism right now all the way through the next four years. Of course. And try to pretend they've turned over a new leaf. There was an interesting moment on CNN yesterday where the reporter was

wrapping her report about the Clooney situation. And she included the Biden White House's response. And Jake Tapper responded almost incredulously in a way, I just have to say, I do not think we would have seen three months ago. Watch this clip. A campaign official who attended that Los Angeles fundraiser tells me that George Clooney left three hours before the president. So clearly the gloves are off, Jake. But what does that mean that George Clooney left? What's the point? The point of that is to suggest that Biden's stamina is better than Clooney's and Clooney didn't have eyes on the entire event. That's the response to the Clooney op-ed. Okay. He's kind of laughing at it because it is laughable. I mean, whoever, whatever you think

of George Clooney to suggest he has less stamina than Joe Biden is a joke. The media does seem to be opening its eyes, at least to Biden's flaws. And it's so much, Rick, that they're now piling on. You're hearing more and more talk of, he's a hero, he's a great man, but his whole legacy is going to be destroyed if he doesn't leave voluntarily. The media giveth, and the media taketh away. We will ruin you unless you do what we want. Here's Chuck Todd. And it has made me want to rethink a lot of the Biden biography. I still can't believe he ran for president in the first place, given that his family was in crisis in 2018. That I look, you look at what has happened.

I can't believe he put his family through this. And and now looking at his behavior now in clinging to this, I, you know, I think the entire narrative on Joe Biden is going to change and that he was he's always been everything has been about his ambition and his ambition comes first. It's amazing. I mean, I'm sorry, but like we're talking about CNN and NBC here, Rick. It's pathetic because it is still you know, it's about power. It's about the media losing their power of their party, the Democrats losing an election. This is not about the greater good. And I'm sorry, I don't believe that reporters eyes are just suddenly opened. This is not the case. They have known this.

They're propagandists. They're Democrats. They are big mad that they are losing. They thought they could, you know, do a COVID style, you know, shakedown of the American people once again by pretending like like Joe Biden is there and then hand it to Kamala. They were caught. They are plagiarists. They're propagandists. They're liars. We have to fix this system. I'm sorry, I don't have one iota of sympathy for these reporters. They knew they've been watching in a front row seat, and suddenly now they're embarrassed because they were caught. They don't have newfound eyes. Chuck Todd is pathetic when he tries to say, oh, I'm rethinking the whole biography. You should rethink your entire journalism career. You're supposed to be skeptical. He is a player on the Democratic side. This has got to

change. It's ruining our country. Washington, D.C. has no credibility. Everyone else outside is laughing, seeing that the king and all of the court has no clothes on. And yet they don't get it. They're just telling us he's he's that he is not naked. They've been telling us that all along these he's clothed, he's clothed. And we knew here I this I mentioned this the other day, but it's worthy of a read. Matt Taibbi via his racket news sub stack had a piece the other day. It's called The Lies Continue as a Matter of Principle. And this is to your point of how the White House press corps has been. It's been co-opted. They've, they've been beaten into submission, you know, but like that wall street journal reporter said, if, if you said that to me,

while I was covering, you know, the walls, the white house or whatever, I, I would run on the air and tell everybody that you just said that to you, right. I would expose whoever did that to me. Um, and this is kind of the point that Matt's making. He writes and he's made a whole career of annoying people. So he you know, he he means it. He's talking about Brian Stelter doing this navel gazing piece like, did we really screw up? Was it really us? And he says by itself, this is an insult. Audiences know the answer. Yes. Also, this is not a Biden age story, but a Biden dementia story. A flood of these stelter style,

wither us features asking if the press missed the Biden incapacity story have arrived. And he says, and I feel like screaming, you are only talking to each other. Peter Baker of the New York Times, which is still congratulating itself for its behind the scenes, Biden increasingly is a vegetable story from for its behind the scenes, Biden increasingly is

a vegetable story from Tuesday, offered the most shameful line. This is Taibbi quoting Baker, quote, they really hate us over these stories. The administration's pushback is pretty strong and their resentment of the coverage is pretty deep to the point that they've complained to our editors. Taibbi, a beat writer who says they complained to my editors on the record, might as well be wearing a hat reading, ask me about my missing balls. The whole point of having a personality like, say, Seymour Hersh, formerly of the New York Times, The New Yorker, is to make even the White House afraid of calling your editor. Yeah. Look, I've been in and around Washington, D.C. for more than 25 years. We have a crisis in journalism because all of these people, Peter Baker, all of them, they get their entire existence out of their social status in Washington, D.C.

They're friends with these people, Megan. The reason why they're so devastated that someone's calling their editor is because it's like their friend, their teammate from the White House, the people that they socialize with, that they love, that they spend Christmas with, these people are turning on them and they're mad at them. So they're upset that their friends are turning on them. They need to act like journalists. They need to not be friends with political people. I know you can be nice, and I'm not saying that we need to have a system where you can't go to dinner and you can't, you know, be friends. I'm I'm close friends with a lot of reporters. I don't trust any of them. They're not my close, close friends. They are people that should act like journalists to me.

Yes. Can they have humanity and can we congratulate each other on, you know, moments where you achieve something or your daughter graduates from college? Yes, you can. You can be an actual human, but you cannot be deep friends with somebody that you're supposed to be holding to account. I'm sorry. That is just not going to work. And the problem with Washington, D.C., they're all intermixed now. Lobbyists, Democrat staffers, Democrat politicians, the media, bureaucrats, all of them go to church together. They socialize together. We've got to stop asking these people to hold each other to account and to shrink the budget of Washington DC or somehow become less powerful in Washington DC. They're never going to do it. It would be akin like coming to Los Angeles and saying, hey guys, I've got a great idea. Let's get rid of movies. Everyone in this town is going to attack you. And that's what's happening in Washington.

They're all too familiar with each other. No one is actually speaking truth to power. There's no courage. They're all just existing together and watching the big budget and big, powerful government get even stronger every single day. Everything you said is so correct. I want to ask you before I let you go about the RNC next week. I mean, I kind of see it as somewhat unfortunate timing

because Trump's been doing such a good job of just letting Biden twist in the wind. You know, you're right. He must take center stage, but that's fine. I think Republicans will be very enthusiastic. And as you point out, I think his messaging next week will be about the Democrats. It doesn't have to be about Joe Biden. It has to be about the

Democrats and what they've done. All of these Democrats are talking about replacing Joe Biden with are going to do exactly what Joe Biden's been doing. Um, but in any event, it's a big event. And, uh, yesterday we had on the show, Tulsi Gabbard, who I asked her about the reported short list of Rubio, JD VD. Vance and Doug Burgum. I point out again to the audience this time in 16 at this point in the race, Mike Pence was barely a footnote to the list of possible VPs for Trump. It was all about Newt Gingrich. No. OK, so it was very wrong last time and it could be very wrong this time. But she said absolutely not to Rubio in her view, called him a neocon establishment warmonger

instead of the list. She's heard it absolutely should not be him. Do you have any thoughts or insight on who's likely to get it? Trump saying this week, he wants to announce it at the, at the convention to gin up, you know, excitement. Well, first of all, let me take the first point because I got something to say about the timing of the convention. You up excitement. Well, first of all, let me take the first point because I got something to say about the timing of the convention. You're exactly right on that. Remember, Republicans are going first and then we've got two weeks of the Olympics

and then the Democrats go. So they are very lucky in that they're gonna get this two week period where the world is gonna focus on the Olympics. Certainly NBC and MSNBC is gonna, they're gonna have to get their mon to focus on the Olympics. Certainly NBC and MSNBC is going to, they're going to have to get their monies out of the Olympics. So they're going to be trying to push those messaging. That's a reprieve for the Democrats.

They get a little time to figure things out. So going so early, I think is a disadvantage for Republicans. On the VP search, I will just say, you won't be surprised. I'm not going to give my opinion. I'm, I'm somebody who I think I know a little bit too much. I certainly don't know who the president's going to pick. Nobody knows who the president's going to pick, but I will say this. There's a lot of people on the list. I don't believe that it's just those three people that he's considering. I think he's considering a whole bunch of people. And anybody who talks about knowing who's up, who's down,

who's out, I think is just blabbering. President Trump keeps that pretty close to his chest. And, you know, he's going to pick somebody from a large pool of people that are going to be better than Kamala Harris for sure. Well, it was November of 2022 when you came on this show and had a warning for those throwing their hat into the presidential race on behalf of Team Trump. And it was put on your big boy pants. It ain't beanbag. It's politics. So put on your big boy pants. No complaining. Don't say he's too mean. This is the primary. We're confident that if Donald Trump runs, Donald Trump is the nominee. I feel that they got the message at the White House. We'll look forward to the big boy press conference and can't wait. I hope to see you next week. All the best. See you soon. I can't even believe that's become a thing,

but it has. When we come back, one of the smartest men in politics, he's been covering them for it for years and years and years, including with me back at Fox News. And can I tell you, the man coming on is responsible in a real way for my entire career on television. Bill Salmon is here next. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of The Megyn Kelly Show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures today. You can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a Sirius XM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura, I'm back. Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are.

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So glad to bring on my former colleague, longtime journalist, Bill Salmon for the first time on the show during this historic week. Bill Salmon, the man responsible for my television career. Great to see you. It's so good to see you, Megan. You're being way too generous. I wish I could claim credit for your television career, but I played a very minor role. No, it's not true. So I'll tell the audience what I'm talking about. Way, way back when I was, I mean, I had gotten on television. I was working part-time at the ABC affiliate in Washington, DC. It was my first attempt at TV, that job. I was invited by that affiliate to go to the White House or to the radio and television correspondence dinner. That's the dinner depicted in broadcast

news. And I was so excited because I'd seen broadcast news a million times. I loved news. I loved my budding career. I was over being a lawyer, but I was still working part-time as a lawyer. And I remember going to the hairstylist before the event. And I said, I've got a black dress and I've got a hot pink dress. What do you think? And she said, do you want to stand out? And I said, yes. She said, go with the hot pink. So I wore the hot pink dress. I went to the dinner. I didn't know anybody. I knew like one person from WJLA and I met this very tall man just sitting there. We were both getting a drink named Bill Salmon. I had no idea who you were or what you did. And we started to talk.

And at the end of the conversation, you said, have you gotten your tape to Fox yet? And I said, no. And I really didn't know that much about Fox. And you said, think about it. Here's my card. Call me, you know, if you have any interest. And I did call you and you helped get my tape to Kim Hume, who was the DC Bureau Chief. And then the rest, as they say, is history. Yeah, that was so much fun. You know, that was 20 years ago. Can you believe that?

I remember being at that party. I was standing at one of those high-topped tables talking with a guy named Marshall Sella from the New York Times Magazine, really good guy. And you walked in in that pink dress. And for whatever crazy reason, you headed over our way and started engaging us in conversation. And I was so incredibly impressed with your wit, with your, you know, just your incredible intelligence. And you were telling me that you were, as you said, working part-time as a local TV reporter and part-time as Jones,

I think it was Jones Day as a law firm. And I said something along the lines of, and it was sort of kind of half serious. I said, well, you ought to come over to Fox News. Now at that time, I wasn't an employee. I was a contributor. And I remember your response. And you may not remember this, but you said something self-deprecating like, you know, I haven't really covered any national, you know, international stuff. And I said, listen, Megan. I'm too green, I said. Yes. I said, cable news is the land of instant expertise. Do you think I knew what I was going to talk about when I went on Brit Hume show tonight when I woke up this morning? No, I, you know, I studied up on it and faked it.

You know, anyway, you're right. I got you over there to meet with Kim Hume and then you took it from there. And wow, what a career it's been. It's been fantastic. Well, it's wonderful to be back together. And I appreciate you being here. And what a time, my God. I mean, in those 20 years or before, Bill, have you ever seen anything like what's happening on the Dem side right now? No. And I've been sort of retired for a few years, but I've come back into it in recent months. I'm doing some consulting work and kind of getting back into the game. And what I used to tell myself during my retirement was, this is great because the national conversation has gotten so dumb. I'm so glad to be out of it. But I'll tell you, I happened to get back into it

and it got real interesting, real fast. This is bonkers to be able to cover these consequential, monumental developments. And, you know, we think we've seen, you know, some big stuff in the last two and a half weeks, wait for the next four months. I mean, all of the scenarios in front of us are crazy. And I mean, even the least, you know, even the most likely scenarios are going to be extraordinary. So yeah, this is a great time to be in the business, no matter what your politics are or preferences are, just covering these big stories is a blast. Because the Dems aren't done with their lawfare against Trump. It's been gutted, but they're not done. And I still, I haven't counted Jack Smith out of taking just the things Trump's lawyer admitted at the Supreme Court argument are not official acts and filing

a new indictment just based on those something Trump can't now go back on. He's got to admit that those were not official acts. So there's no immunity and try to indict him and go forward with a jiffy quick trial with a very friendly judge to the prosecution before it's not going to happen before November, but before inauguration, that's before J six, that's what they're looking to do. So all the action won't be on the Dem side. There's still going to be some action over on the GOP side because the Dems are going to go down swinging. Um, I want to tell you this just hit from NBC news, uh, and reporter Amanda Turkle, who reports as follows several of Biden's closest allies, including

three people directly involved in the reelection efforts, tell, and then she named three reporters, they now see his chances of winning as zero. These are several of his closest allies. Quote, he needs to drop out. One campaign official said he will never recover from this. Quote, no one involved in the effort thinks he has a path, said a second person working to elect him. I think they're right, but I don't like state overstate it. But I think that's the smart analysis. What do you think? I think it is right. And, you know, every day when I follow the story, I take my own sort of gut check. And, you know, I ask myself, what percentage do I think, you know, the likelihood of Joe Biden getting out? And it was, you know, the first few days it was at 90 percent. And then, you know,

there was this there's an ebb and flow to the story. And you saw a few days back when, you know, he started kind of, you know, get getting back in the game and my percentage went down to 60%. It was it's back at 95, 98 now because the inevitability of it is so overpowering. When you look at Nancy Pelosi's statements yesterday, when you look at just you don't have to read the tea leaves. It is just so blatantly obvious. He is going to be convinced against his, you know, against his will to change his mind. That is almost certainly the case. I mean, look, is there a tiny chance that he just against all the advice, against all the urgings, he puts his head down and grinds it out to the convention? Yeah. But even then, I think at

that point, it will be such it'll be so contentious that I wouldn't rule out. Now, this is probably the least likely of all the crazy scenarios out there. But I still think I wouldn't rule out the idea that they could try to forcibly remove him. You've touched on this before the language, which says in good conscience, we delegates have pledged to vote for Joe Biden. Well, that's a pretty big loophole, because in good conscience, if you think that the guy's not up to the job and your conscience doesn't allow you to vote for him, you know, that's a pretty big out. Now, I don't think it'll get to that, but I think if necessary, the Democrats are prepared to go there there because they have a very strong survival

instinct, the Democratic Party, like any political party. You saw this in 2020 when they almost inexplicably nominated Bernie Sanders to be the nominee, which I thought would have been political suicide heading into that election, just given the realities of the politics. I thought Trump would have, you know, would easily beaten him. But they came to their senses and belatedly, you know, kind of rallied around Joe Biden, who was viewed as, well, he's not, you know, that far left, so we could probably get him in. You're seeing the same thing happen in slow motion here. This idea that, well, maybe Biden can get in. No, everyone is coming to the conclusion that we're going to lose. We're going to lose the White House. We're going to

lose the House. They're already going to lose the Senate before this debacle. And here's the big thing, Megan, and you as a lawyer and a former Supreme Court watcher and a current Supreme Court watcher, you know, this doesn't get enough attention. It is terrifying to Democrats that this man, Donald John Trump, who has already appointed a third of the Supreme Court justices, may well, by the end of this drama, have appointed two thirds of the Supreme Court justices. I don't know if he's going to get three picks, but he'll get several. And that alone is terrifying when you think about from the Democratic perspective, when you think about how they view the Dobbs decision and all these other decisions and lots of, you know, lots of developments, not to mention the other judiciary further down on the bench on the court. So, yeah, this is this is really a bad time for Democrats.

And I think they are determined to get them off the ticket. That's a good point about the Supreme Court. We're going to hear the din in the wake of this disaster for Sotomayor to leave the bench at, what is she, 70? Grow even louder than it's been, right? She's relatively young, but she's not in the best health. But I mean, it would be, this is a young age for somebody to go. But we already heard it. We heard somebody say Kagan should go. Kagan is young and has a long future ahead of her. But they just want to make sure nothing happens to their, you know, they want somebody who's basically 33 to be appointed to the bench by whoever's running

the show over there in the Biden White House. And right now they control the Senate. And thanks to the Republicans getting rid of the filibuster, which was in response to the Democrats getting rid of it for younger, for lower court judges, they do control the Senate right now. Listen to this. It's just broke. The NATO leaders are speaking out now. This is via Politico behind the smiling handshakes. NATO leaders are unnerved by a weakened Biden quote. You're worried if he knows which direction he's going or whether he's going to fall or what he's going to forget, said one senior European diplomat. Just what's interesting about it is that they're talking and that the press is reporting it. And then secondly, there's this

by Ed O'Keefe with CBS, who says as follows, he's gotten He's gotten his hands on the memo that's going to be shared with Democratic senators later today. The top members of the Joe Biden campaign are going over to try to shore up support with them. Quote, there's no indication that anyone else would outperform the president against Trump. Hypothetical polling of alternative nominees will always be unreliable and surveys do not take into account the negative media environment that any Democratic nominee will encounter. The only Democratic candidate for whom this is already baked in is President Biden. That's an interesting argument because I do think, Bill, the press, yes, Republican commentators

will probably take shots at whoever steps in, but the press is Democratic. They're largely Democrats and the press is going to anoint anyone not named Biden. Am I wrong? No. And and you're actually exactly right. The press will, there'll be a rally around the beleaguered Democratic ticket effect, whether it's Harris or somebody else. And believe me, you're already seeing foreshadowings of this, where it's going to be, let's win one for Joe. Let's win one for the Gipper. He's a hero now. Saw this even in Clooney's, you know, op-ed yesterday where he said, you know, you could be the hero. So there will be this sort of gross hero worship and they'll carry him, hoist him up on their shoulders and march him around like we're winning this for Joe. And I'll tell you, the relief,

the relief of just succeeding in getting Biden off the top of the ticket will translate into an enthusiasm among Democrats, especially if it's obviously it's going to be a younger, more vigorous candidate, no matter who it is. That will translate into, yes, you know, these polls that show that, you know, that Biden's too old. None of that, all of that is a moot point now. We have a young, vigorous, and we're going to, you know, we're going to defeat the evil and the conversation will turn back to Trump and the press will be so vested and they'll be so excited in covering this, this, this shiny new object, whoever it is that that'll, that'll count for a lot of points when it comes to voting. It's also going to relieve the press in a way of its responsibility in covering this whole thing up to begin with. If Biden stays in the role, runs and loses the come to Jesus

moment that's going to happen after the loss is going to include the media. But if they can sub him out and participate in anointing the new Democrat, It's all forgotten. We won in the end. That's the important thing. Yeah. Yeah. The media is quite conflicted right now. There's so many different impulses. On the one hand, they're embarrassed by the fact that they know they didn't they didn't cover this story sufficiently. That is, you know, Biden's cognitive decline. They're angry at the White House and the campaign for allegedly hiding this from the press, when I think it was pretty clear to the press and all of us that what was going on, if you look at the polls, they're alarmed that Trump will win now. I mean, that's a big impulse in the press. But at the same time,

you know, in their dark little hearts, you know, most of these folks are reporters and journalists. And so they're also excited, like you and I are, about the prospect of covering this. But so there's a real witch's brew of impulses that are mixing around in their heads. But yeah, they are not happy about how they are looking and how this came out. Because again, and I know you've made this point on your show before, you look at, you know, you talked about the foreign leaders and they're sort of saying, hey, what are we going to do with this guy? You look at his recent trips to Europe when he's wandering away from the Italian prime minister, when he's doing all these things. And we were told, you haters, you terrible haters.

He was obviously looking at the guy parachuting. Or George Clooney. George Clooney, the host of the biggest Democratic fundraiser in American history, gave this guy $30 million. George Clooney now says, yeah, he was every bit as bad at the fundraiser as he was at the debate. Well, then why didn't George Clooney tell us that? Didn't he have an obligation to tell us that until, you know, he waited until after it became manifestly obvious to all of us by watching that debate. Now he comes out after, you know, by the way, two or two weeks plus after that debate and says, yeah, actually, guys, he was like that. What were we told when we saw the footage of that fundraiser when Biden was led off the stage by Barack Obama?

You haters, you terrible biased haters. He was simply basking in the applause for a few moments and biden you know and obama kind of you know put his arm around him and so it was all true and the cheap fakes and and the robert her uh uh you know he's an elderly man with a forgetful memory oh my gosh this special counsel is such a partisan. How could he, that's so inappropriate. No, it was an extraordinary thing to say, but he saw how extraordinary the situation was. And he had to cover his own rear end by making sure I'm putting this in the report.

This guy is- If anything, it was understated. I mean, the media is mad. They knew, but they didn't, the way I see it is they, we all knew he was at an eight. The only thing we learned that night was he's at a 10 on this infirmity scale. So, OK, I'll give the media some outrage over the last two points.

But those who didn't report this story when he was at an eight have no right. They've lost their standing to complain. Meanwhile, they see him out there. You know, each day has been a new test, which is all a lie. They've seen enough. They know whatever happens at the presser. But day after day, he's what he's always been, but especially over the past three years, a gaffe machine. Here he is last night at the White House NATO dinner. Watch this. The allies in this room not only share a common language don't share a common language we do not share a common border but we're our neighbors we're neighbors

okay he can't he cannot string two sentences together even in the prompter and you know look it's not his fault the the guy got old. I mean, it's coming for all of us. And, you know, you set aside the policy, set aside the politics. This is about biology. This is about actuarial tables. It is not his fault that he got old. It may be his fault that he's trying to stay into the race when he probably shouldn't be in the race. But, you know, it's beyond his control, the fact that he has gone into this cognitive decline. He will eventually be made to realize that he's going to have to get off that ticket. But it's hard. I mean, I tell you, I prayed for Joe Biden the Sunday after the debate, just as a fellow human being, like, oh, I feel sorry for the guy. And by the

way, in politics, it's one thing to get your brains beat in by your opponent in politics, and that's a tough day at the office. When your opponent or what others start to pity you or feel sorry for you, it is over. It's over. Especially as a man. I mean, especially as a man. I know I have empathy for his condition and position as a human. I do. I do put most of the blame on his wife. I have to be honest, his family, because I've had family members deteriorate. And once they've they've deteriorated, it's hard to say the decision making should be on them. There comes a point in time, and I believe he's there where the decision-making has to be made

by those around the person who truly love them and want to see what's best for them. And Jill Biden wasn't elected to do first what's best for the country. She's elected to do what's best for him, you know, in, in, in their marriage vows that she elected that for that. It's just deeply wrong that she's not doing it. Um, I'll say this bill, this just broke from the times. It's, it's correct. Um, a small group of Mr. Biden's advisors in the administration and the campaign, at least two of whom have told allies, they do not believe he should keep trying to run for a second term, have said they'd have to convince the president of several things to get him to drop out. One, they would have to make the case to the president who remains convinced of the strength of his campaign that he cannot win

against Trump. They would have to persuade him to believe that another candidate like Harris could beat Trump. And they would have to assure Mr. Biden that should he step aside, the process to choose another candidate would be orderly and not devolve into chaos in the Democratic Party. And on the subject of number two, I mean, it is pretty interesting. Like could Kamala Harris beat Trump and will Joe Biden lose? You know, there was there was a Washington Times poll. Sorry, Washington Post poll that just came out today that had just a sliver of good news for Joe Biden. But the Post admits that its own poll is an outlier. It's of registered voters. All right. Not as good as likely. And it said that, um, put this race at a dead

heat. 46, 46 doesn't have the battlegrounds. Uh, but it does say it points out that across eight other post-debate national polls tracked by the post Trump is leading by 3.5 percentage points. So that's the kind of thing that's the Democrats who want him gone. That's their worst nightmare. Any ammo that Joe Biden can use to make himself believe I can do this. Yeah. And, you know, I think that you're right. The Post was and they acknowledged they were a bit of an outlier when it came to the just

top line, you know, who's who's had I think think it was 46, 46 in the poll, Trump and Biden. But you're right about the Harris thing. And here's the here's the move for Harris, because, look, it is very likely that Joe Biden, like we've discussed, is going to probably end up getting off the top of the ticket. So then the question becomes, who's going to be the standard bearer? And I agree that with a conventional wisdom that the default position or certainly the favorite you'd have to give her that status would be Harris. I mean, she's the vice president. She has the institutional, you know, legitimacy to an extent that the others don't. She has the war chest and on and on and on. But I think Harris

is also aware of what everyone else is aware of and what everyone else is talking about, which is to say her weak points. She was a terrible campaigner. She wasn't considered a very particularly good vice president. And so I think to compensate for those or to mitigate those coming out of the gate, I think it would behoove her to very quickly, if not immediately, select a vice presidential running mate for herself from among the top tier of people who are otherwise being considered as possibly the next top of the ticket, like Andy Beshears, the governor of Kentucky, or if you want to go with an all-woman ticket, you know, Gretchen Whitmer, a governor of Michigan, or whomever it is.

If you co-opt one of those other sort of top-tier people that are being considered, you take some of the wind out of the sails of the camp that says, well, let's not do a coronation with Harris. Let's, you know, let's make it an open convention. And so everybody gets a fair shot. And I think even Harris, from her perspective, has to sort of go along with that thinking to an extent. She has to, in other words, she'd love a coronation, but she also knows the optics of a coronation probably aren't going to fly. So she'll have to at least play along with some sort of a token competition. And I think she would go a long way if she would, again, co-opt somebody that's more likable than herself.

And by the way, from that person's perspective, whether it's Bashir, whether it's Whitmer or whomever, I think a lot of these people whose names are being talked about as possible presidential candidates at this late stage are loathe to be the person that elbows aside the African-American woman within the Democratic Party. So I think they might look at this and say, you know, it might be the path to the presidency, which is where I want to get to, might be better through the vice presidency. If I get on the ticket, I don't have to be seen as the heavy and knocking, you know, the black woman aside. And, you know, I'm poised after she's done with her presidency, assuming she wins, that's a big if, that, you know, I'd be, you know, I'm poised after she's done with her presidency, assuming she wins, that's a big if that that that, you know, I'd be next in line to run for the thing. So I think that's the calculations that's going through everybody's head. On the subject we're discussing for The New York Times is just breaking. The Biden campaign is quietly testing Kamala's chances to

beat Trump if Biden were to set a step aside. That's the Biden campaign doing that. Now, I'm sure they're doing it for two reasons. Number one, they need it, pursuant to the Times reporting, to convince Joe Biden to step aside. They need something to show him she's polling better than you are against him. And number two, they want to know themselves whether she can do it. This breaking as Axios is now reporting that President Biden is poised to face a sudden flood of new statements from House Democrats urging him to exit the race, regardless of what happens at his NATO big boy presser tonight, according to more than half a dozen lawmakers. This didn't go the way the White House wanted it to go this week. They had a period

where things were looking a little better, and it was all downhill from there, Bill. I'll give you the last word on where you think we'll be 72 hours from now. Well, I think he may be out in 72 hours. And I think the Democratic Party, you know, looking at the trauma that is ahead of them, they may, if they're going to go through all that trouble and all that pain, they may be willing to go the extra yard and say, yeah, we're not going to coronate Kamala Harris because we're not going to go through all this trouble to end up with someone that we think is also going to lose. So if they conclude that she's not electable either, they'll, you know,

take their chances with offending black voters and skip over her, maybe put a Wes Moore or some other African-American at the top of the ticket, But they don't want to go through all this trouble and trauma just to lose anyway. That's exactly right. I mean, they they they need to win. That's what they want more than anything. And not just the White House. They need to hold on to the Senate, which, as you point out, is extremely unlikely and possibly take the House. And they're just, I don't see them going down without swinging just because they don't want to offend the Kamala Harris fans. There are ways of appeasing those people without elevating an equally unelectable person. Bill Salmon, what a time. Please come back soon. Thank you, Megan. All right. We're going to be watching the Big Boy

press conference tonight. We'll bring you your big boy news tomorrow with Michael Knowles, plus a deep dive on what the polls are actually showing. See you then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.